1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 S1: Hi friends. Thanks so much for downloading this podcast, and 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,000 S1: I hope truly that you will hear something that will encourage, edify, equip, 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,360 S1: and enlighten you to get out there and influence and 4 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,040 S1: occupy until he comes. And on that note, may I 5 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,080 S1: take just a few moments here to describe this month's 6 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,920 S1: truth tool? It's by pastor Jack Hibbs. He's written the 7 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,040 S1: book called Called to Take a Bold Stand. I absolutely 8 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,520 S1: love this book because it reminds us that in Christ 9 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,480 S1: all things pass away. All things become new, that we 10 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,240 S1: are standing for his truth, that we have a new nature. 11 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,080 S1: Because of him, we should be living boldly. But far 12 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,120 S1: too often we retreat out of fear from cultural blowback. 13 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,600 S1: So I want to encourage all of us to just 14 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,800 S1: stand up for Christ, to be unashamed of who we 15 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,120 S1: are in him, and to go into a culture that's 16 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,600 S1: telling us in no uncertain terms. They're lost and they're hurting. 17 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,760 S1: So if you'd like a copy of Pastor Hibbs new 18 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,400 S1: book called Call to Take a Bold Stand, just give 19 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,720 S1: a gift of any amount by calling eight, seven, seven. 20 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,680 S1: Janet 58. We are listener supported radio, and this is 21 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,640 S1: my way of saying thank you. So that number again 22 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,300 S1: is 877 Janet 58. Or you can go online in 23 00:00:59,340 --> 00:01:02,100 S1: the market with Janet dot o r g. Go to 24 00:01:02,140 --> 00:01:04,180 S1: the bottom of the page. There's the cover of Pastor 25 00:01:04,180 --> 00:01:06,660 S1: Jack's book. Click it on, give a gift and you'll 26 00:01:06,660 --> 00:01:08,179 S1: be good to go. And we'll send you a copy 27 00:01:08,180 --> 00:01:10,060 S1: as a way of saying thank you. Don't forget, you 28 00:01:10,060 --> 00:01:12,540 S1: can also become a partial partner. Those are people who 29 00:01:12,540 --> 00:01:15,179 S1: give every single month at a level of their own choosing. 30 00:01:15,220 --> 00:01:17,179 S1: My way of saying thank you to the partial partners 31 00:01:17,180 --> 00:01:18,780 S1: is to make sure you get a copy of each 32 00:01:18,819 --> 00:01:21,619 S1: month's truth tool, and you get our weekly newsletter, which 33 00:01:21,660 --> 00:01:24,259 S1: includes some of my writing and an audio piece only 34 00:01:24,260 --> 00:01:26,780 S1: for my partial partners. So whether it's a one time 35 00:01:26,780 --> 00:01:28,619 S1: gift or you want to be an ongoing giver and 36 00:01:28,620 --> 00:01:30,899 S1: become a partial partner, that's your call. But I want 37 00:01:30,940 --> 00:01:34,060 S1: to thank you in advance. Eight seven, seven Janet 58. 38 00:01:34,060 --> 00:01:37,340 S1: Or online at In the market with Janet partial. For now, 39 00:01:37,340 --> 00:01:46,340 S1: please enjoy the broadcast. Hi friends, this is Janet Parshall. 40 00:01:46,340 --> 00:01:48,420 S1: Thanks so much for choosing to spend the next hour 41 00:01:48,420 --> 00:01:51,660 S1: with us. Today's program is prerecorded so our phone lines 42 00:01:51,660 --> 00:01:53,780 S1: are not open. But thanks so much for being with 43 00:01:53,780 --> 00:01:55,420 S1: us and enjoy the broadcast. 44 00:01:55,820 --> 00:01:57,400 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're were watching. 45 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,880 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 46 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:02,120 S4: For Americans worshipping government over God. 47 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,840 S3: Extremely rare safety move by a 17 years. 48 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:07,920 S4: The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated. 49 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,400 S1: Hi friends. Welcome to in the market with Janet partial. 50 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,640 S1: Here's a question for you. Tell me what you think 51 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,720 S1: about God and time. Do you think that God is 52 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,519 S1: always on time? Or do you think, like so many people, 53 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,639 S1: that perhaps his watch runs a little bit slower than yours? 54 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,040 S1: And if things aren't happening the way you want them 55 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,880 S1: to happen, when you want them to happen, what does 56 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,640 S1: that say about God? Importantly, what does that say about you? 57 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,720 S1: How do we learn to trust God's mysterious timing? That's 58 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:55,620 S1: really what we're going to talk about this hour. and 59 00:02:55,620 --> 00:02:57,419 S1: I would venture to say that there are a whole 60 00:02:57,419 --> 00:03:00,540 S1: lot of brothers and sisters who struggle in this particular area. 61 00:03:00,580 --> 00:03:01,940 S1: If you look at the fruit of the spirit in 62 00:03:01,940 --> 00:03:04,380 S1: one of those happens to be patience. Are you real 63 00:03:04,380 --> 00:03:07,260 S1: good on that one? Are you working out, trying with 64 00:03:07,260 --> 00:03:11,140 S1: fear and trembling, that part of your salvation, where patience 65 00:03:11,300 --> 00:03:13,660 S1: is one of those fruit that you really and truly 66 00:03:13,660 --> 00:03:16,100 S1: desire to have manifest in your life? Well, there's nothing 67 00:03:16,100 --> 00:03:17,780 S1: like the Word of God to give you a whole 68 00:03:17,780 --> 00:03:19,500 S1: lot of insight on this topic. And that's what we're 69 00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:21,299 S1: going to do this hour. We're going to talk about 70 00:03:21,300 --> 00:03:24,260 S1: what happens when God's plan is unclear. Our teacher this 71 00:03:24,260 --> 00:03:28,419 S1: hour is Lori Pollich shorts. She's a popular speaker and author, 72 00:03:28,740 --> 00:03:30,700 S1: and she happens to be part of the teaching team 73 00:03:30,700 --> 00:03:34,580 S1: at Ocean Hills Covenant Church in Santa Barbara, California. She's 74 00:03:34,580 --> 00:03:37,460 S1: a graduate of Fuller Theological Seminary. She has spoken to 75 00:03:37,500 --> 00:03:40,700 S1: more than half a million people at conferences and colleges 76 00:03:40,700 --> 00:03:44,460 S1: and churches and denominational events literally around the country. She's 77 00:03:44,460 --> 00:03:47,460 S1: been featured in multiple media outlets, and she joins us 78 00:03:47,460 --> 00:03:50,420 S1: today with her new book called Faith, Doubt and God's 79 00:03:50,420 --> 00:03:56,440 S1: Mysterious Timing 30 Biblical insights about the way God works. Works. Lori, 80 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,440 S1: thank you so much for the gift of your time. 81 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,280 S1: I can't give back this hour to you, so I 82 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,560 S1: don't take it for granted that you're giving it to us. 83 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,320 S1: And I want to thank you in advance for covering 84 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,400 S1: this topic, because I have a strong sense that people 85 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,119 S1: struggle with this because they think, God, where were you 86 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,480 S1: when I needed you? God, are you here? God, do 87 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,800 S1: you hear me? God, why are you not answering all 88 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,280 S1: of that? In many ways, shapes and forms harkens back 89 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,800 S1: to God and His mysterious timing, as you say in 90 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,360 S1: your book. Do you agree with that? 91 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,520 S5: I do, Janet, and thank you so much for having 92 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,680 S5: me on your program. I do think it's one of 93 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,400 S5: the biggest struggles that Christians go through. 94 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:33,479 S1: Yeah. Why do you think that is? 95 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,960 S5: Well, because I don't know about you, but the longer 96 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,880 S5: I live, the more I'm aware that God's timing is 97 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:44,720 S5: never my timing. It is is rarely faster than mine. 98 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,280 S5: Although I will say, as I'm aging, I'm starting to 99 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:52,820 S5: note one area where God does move fast, but otherwise 100 00:04:52,820 --> 00:04:56,339 S5: it feels like we are waiting and waiting and waiting. 101 00:04:56,339 --> 00:05:00,740 S5: And what I realized through my study in this book 102 00:05:00,779 --> 00:05:04,979 S5: is how many people in the Bible go through exactly 103 00:05:04,980 --> 00:05:08,100 S5: the same things we do, but we don't usually hear 104 00:05:08,100 --> 00:05:11,420 S5: about that part of their stories on Sunday morning. We 105 00:05:11,420 --> 00:05:15,300 S5: usually hear the heroic parts, and so I try to 106 00:05:15,339 --> 00:05:19,460 S5: point people towards those places where I see people giving 107 00:05:19,460 --> 00:05:23,140 S5: us so much insight about what it means to walk through, 108 00:05:23,500 --> 00:05:27,740 S5: walk with God through the difficulties and through the weights. 109 00:05:27,980 --> 00:05:31,620 S1: Yeah. And you just weave Scripture so beautifully in and 110 00:05:31,620 --> 00:05:33,580 S1: out of this book, and it's clear that you're a 111 00:05:33,580 --> 00:05:35,540 S1: lover of the word and you love to teach it. 112 00:05:35,540 --> 00:05:37,460 S1: But I was thinking when you were talking, listen, we 113 00:05:37,460 --> 00:05:40,020 S1: get a directive from the word wait on the Lord, 114 00:05:40,020 --> 00:05:41,740 S1: and then we hear the heart cry of a psalmist 115 00:05:41,740 --> 00:05:45,020 S1: who says, how long, O Lord, must I wait? So 116 00:05:45,020 --> 00:05:47,500 S1: God must have figured that we would struggle in this 117 00:05:47,500 --> 00:05:50,960 S1: particular area, because if he isn't giving us a directive, 118 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,840 S1: he's giving us biographical stories of people who had to 119 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,800 S1: learn to wait, all for our edification and our instruction. 120 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,400 S1: I just love the way the the Lord and His 121 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,400 S1: Word never leaves us in the dark. This became more 122 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,840 S1: than a teaching topic for you at one point in 123 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:07,360 S1: your life. Tell me about that. 124 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,880 S5: Well, I was a person who came to know the Lord, 125 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,479 S5: you know. I had always believed in God. I actually 126 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:19,440 S5: was baptized in the Serbian Orthodox Church because my grandparents. Yeah. 127 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,720 S5: Came over. Um, my, my grandfather has just the classic 128 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,279 S5: immigrant story of coming to Ellis Island with a dollar 129 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,839 S5: in his pocket. And it's just a beautiful story. But so, 130 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,240 S5: you know, I come from this heritage and deep belief 131 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:38,159 S5: in God, but I never knew about having a relationship 132 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,280 S5: with him until my senior year of high school. And 133 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:45,560 S5: so when I began this relationship, I thought that you 134 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,820 S5: just informed God of the things that you wanted to 135 00:06:48,860 --> 00:06:52,659 S5: happen in your life. And when you wanted them to happen. 136 00:06:53,060 --> 00:06:56,340 S5: And lo and behold, I discovered pretty quick that that 137 00:06:56,339 --> 00:07:00,100 S5: was not the God that I had entered a relationship with. 138 00:07:00,660 --> 00:07:05,660 S5: And so when the for me, the biggest struggle was marriage, because, 139 00:07:05,940 --> 00:07:08,140 S5: you know, even though I wasn't the ring by spring 140 00:07:08,140 --> 00:07:12,660 S5: gal in college, I had informed God that about 25 141 00:07:12,700 --> 00:07:15,540 S5: would be a great time to to meet the guy 142 00:07:15,740 --> 00:07:18,220 S5: that he had for me. And you know, when I 143 00:07:18,260 --> 00:07:22,180 S5: hit 30, I began to recruit other people in this prayer. 144 00:07:22,180 --> 00:07:25,020 S5: And then when I hit 40 and was still single, 145 00:07:25,020 --> 00:07:28,300 S5: that's when I started to suspect that God was deaf. 146 00:07:28,580 --> 00:07:31,500 S5: I'd been sitting on this prayer for so long and 147 00:07:31,500 --> 00:07:34,020 S5: serving him for so long, and I don't know if 148 00:07:34,020 --> 00:07:36,780 S5: there's anyone out there that feels that right now, but 149 00:07:36,780 --> 00:07:40,260 S5: I certainly relate. And it might be a different area 150 00:07:40,260 --> 00:07:43,180 S5: than mine. But I think we do sit in these 151 00:07:43,540 --> 00:07:48,960 S5: what looks to be apparently unanswered prayer and prayers that 152 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,560 S5: we have. And so anyway, what happened to me is 153 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,040 S5: I got engaged at 42, and of course, my mom 154 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,640 S5: had been waiting all these years to have the bridal showers. 155 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,440 S5: And I got my wedding dress. And then, uh, my, 156 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:06,240 S5: my fiance got deployed. And in the course of his deployment, 157 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,560 S5: his ex-wife, who had actually left him, began to have 158 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,160 S5: second thoughts. And they were, I guess, fighting each other 159 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,200 S5: because when he came back, we broke up and he 160 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:19,680 S5: remarried his ex-wife, which actually is a wonderful, beautiful story 161 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,120 S5: when you're not the girl engaged to the guy. And so. 162 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:22,800 S1: Exactly. 163 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,840 S5: And especially with such a tender area. So for me, 164 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,360 S5: this was my crisis of faith because, you know, my 165 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,400 S5: parents were divorced and, and I thought, you know, there's, 166 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,120 S5: there's nothing more beautiful than two people finding their way 167 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,280 S5: back to each other. But God, why did you think 168 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,160 S5: that I was strong enough to play this part in 169 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,020 S5: an area where I was so tender in and had 170 00:08:45,020 --> 00:08:47,860 S5: been asking for so long. And I always like to 171 00:08:47,940 --> 00:08:50,220 S5: joke that, you know, well-meaning Christian said, well, isn't it 172 00:08:50,220 --> 00:08:52,900 S5: great that God used you to bring them back together? 173 00:08:52,900 --> 00:08:55,580 S5: And I'm like, oh yeah, fabulous. I hope you get 174 00:08:55,580 --> 00:08:58,940 S5: the same opportunity someday. Well. 175 00:08:59,220 --> 00:09:01,380 S1: You say that. And a line from fiddler on the 176 00:09:01,380 --> 00:09:04,860 S1: roof comes out. Tevye is having this robust conversation with God, 177 00:09:05,059 --> 00:09:07,540 S1: and he says, Lord, I know we are your chosen people, 178 00:09:07,540 --> 00:09:10,340 S1: but couldn't you have chosen somebody else? So I can 179 00:09:10,340 --> 00:09:14,900 S1: relate exactly to what you're saying? Great, wonderful story for 180 00:09:15,059 --> 00:09:17,420 S1: that marriage. But did you have to play a part 181 00:09:17,420 --> 00:09:20,820 S1: in it? That's a fascinating question. You also raised this 182 00:09:20,820 --> 00:09:22,860 S1: idea of crisis of faith. Let me pick up on 183 00:09:22,900 --> 00:09:25,500 S1: that point, because that's why this is a very prescient 184 00:09:25,500 --> 00:09:28,380 S1: conversation right now. It's not just about learning to trust 185 00:09:28,420 --> 00:09:32,500 S1: God's perfect timing, but it's about recognizing that when you don't, 186 00:09:32,740 --> 00:09:36,300 S1: there are really egregious impacts on the church capital C. 187 00:09:36,660 --> 00:09:39,340 S1: Lori Schwartz with us. Her book is called Faith, doubt 188 00:09:39,340 --> 00:09:47,120 S1: and God's Mysterious Timing back after this. The Bible calls 189 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,320 S1: us to stand for his truth, that we are in 190 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,440 S1: Christ and that we have a new nature because of him. 191 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,880 S1: So why don't we live boldly? That's why I've chosen 192 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,199 S1: called to take a bold stand by pastor Jack Hibbs 193 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,760 S1: as this month's truth tool. Discover how to stand firmly 194 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,120 S1: in your faith and make every moment count for him. 195 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,280 S1: As for your copy of call to take a bold 196 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:04,920 S1: stand when you give a gift of any amount to 197 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:09,800 S1: in the market, call 877. Janet 58. That's 877. Janet 58. 198 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,120 S1: Or go to in the market with Janet dot o 199 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:16,319 S1: r g. By the way, we are listener supported radio 200 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,719 S1: and you're hearing my conversation with Lori Short because you 201 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,720 S1: pray and because you give. So I want to thank 202 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,199 S1: you for both and every month my way of saying 203 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,640 S1: thank you. I offer what I call a truth tool. 204 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,760 S1: Put it in your backpack. It's part of your Pilgrim's Progress. 205 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,960 S1: It's to edify you, encourage you, enlighten you, and get 206 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,920 S1: you out into the marketplace of ideas. So if you 207 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,560 S1: want to learn more about the truth tool, call 877 208 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,660 S1: Janet 58877. Janet 58 or go online to in the 209 00:10:42,660 --> 00:10:46,340 S1: market with janet.org. Scroll to the bottom of the face 210 00:10:46,340 --> 00:10:48,820 S1: of the front page. And there's the picture of the 211 00:10:48,820 --> 00:10:51,940 S1: book for the truth tool for the month. You click 212 00:10:51,940 --> 00:10:53,780 S1: it on gift of any size will send it off 213 00:10:53,780 --> 00:10:55,820 S1: to you. Also, linger for a minute and discover what 214 00:10:55,820 --> 00:10:58,339 S1: it means to be a partial partner. Those are people 215 00:10:58,340 --> 00:11:00,580 S1: who give every single month at a level of their 216 00:11:00,580 --> 00:11:02,740 S1: own choosing. And the website will tell you how I 217 00:11:02,740 --> 00:11:05,220 S1: say thank you to our partial partners. We're talking about 218 00:11:05,220 --> 00:11:08,140 S1: God's mysterious timing. And this is not a sidebar story. 219 00:11:08,140 --> 00:11:10,260 S1: This is huge because it really gets down to the 220 00:11:10,260 --> 00:11:14,940 S1: questions of trust and reliance and faith. And that's not 221 00:11:14,940 --> 00:11:17,900 S1: easy for anybody, particularly as you're a maturing saint. So 222 00:11:17,900 --> 00:11:20,020 S1: our teacher is Laurie Shaw, who has written the book Faith, 223 00:11:20,059 --> 00:11:24,500 S1: Doubt and God's Mysterious Timing 30 Biblical Insights About the 224 00:11:24,500 --> 00:11:27,300 S1: Way God Works. Again, Lori is a teacher and an 225 00:11:27,300 --> 00:11:29,220 S1: author and a speaker and part of the teaching team 226 00:11:29,220 --> 00:11:32,260 S1: at Ocean Hills Covenant Church in Santa Barbara. So, Lori, 227 00:11:32,260 --> 00:11:34,699 S1: you intimated something before you talked about crisis of faith. 228 00:11:34,700 --> 00:11:36,660 S1: And I want to extrapolate those words because I think 229 00:11:36,660 --> 00:11:40,679 S1: they're hugely important. If we don't get down this idea 230 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,680 S1: of God's timing, and you do it with clarity and 231 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,040 S1: precision and biblical truth in your book, it begins the 232 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,840 S1: process for some, I believe a crisis of faith that 233 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:54,240 S1: results in a deconstruction. All these trendy words right now. Basically, 234 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:55,800 S1: it means you walk away from the faith, you turn 235 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,160 S1: and you walked away because you never understood the nature 236 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,640 S1: of God. You never understood his characteristics, you never understood 237 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,760 S1: that his timing was impeccable and perfect. And so if 238 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,400 S1: you don't get these questions answered, it can create, it 239 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,719 S1: seems to me, a hardness of the heart. And then 240 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,720 S1: people who don't understand God don't want a relationship with him. 241 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,560 S1: There's a cooling and people walk away. So when you 242 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,600 S1: were writing this book as much as it was with 243 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:23,040 S1: laser precision, talking about God's perfect and mysterious timing, did 244 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,200 S1: you contextualize it to think that there are a lot 245 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,400 S1: of people who don't understand the characteristics of God, and 246 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,360 S1: this can be one of the insidious outcomes if they don't? 247 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,320 S5: Well, I do think that that is the dilemma that 248 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,460 S5: is before us. The first time that a prayer isn't 249 00:12:39,460 --> 00:12:42,700 S5: answered the way we would want it to be answered. It's. 250 00:12:42,740 --> 00:12:45,819 S5: It's what I call moving from the Santa Clause, God 251 00:12:45,860 --> 00:12:49,220 S5: to the living God who has plans for your life. 252 00:12:49,340 --> 00:12:52,380 S5: That might be different than your plans. And we have 253 00:12:52,380 --> 00:12:56,100 S5: to decide who we're here for. What is the story 254 00:12:56,100 --> 00:12:59,700 S5: that we are supposed to be living? And are we 255 00:12:59,740 --> 00:13:02,459 S5: going to be a partner with God in that story? 256 00:13:02,780 --> 00:13:08,060 S5: And I feel like, um, for me, I learned so 257 00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:13,380 S5: much in that time period before I actually did get married. Uh, 258 00:13:13,620 --> 00:13:16,300 S5: three years later, at the ripe young age of 49, 259 00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:19,860 S5: which is every girl's dream. But I, I say that, 260 00:13:19,900 --> 00:13:24,339 S5: you know, it was a very, very important time in 261 00:13:24,340 --> 00:13:27,500 S5: my life because I was not just going to church, Janet, 262 00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:31,380 S5: but I was speaking at conferences and I came to 263 00:13:31,420 --> 00:13:34,180 S5: a dilemma where I went before the Lord and said, 264 00:13:34,500 --> 00:13:37,520 S5: I can't tell my story. If I tell my story, 265 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,079 S5: people will walk away from you. I think we have 266 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,160 S5: this idea that we have to defend God when he's 267 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,080 S5: not doing what we want him to do. And I 268 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,200 S5: really felt God say, tell your story. You think I 269 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,640 S5: don't know who you are and what you're going through 270 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,600 S5: right now? Take that risk. And so I did, and 271 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,400 S5: I call it my time period of learning the, the 272 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:03,079 S5: power of the middle of the story testimony, which is 273 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,800 S5: what I was in. And I chose to tell my 274 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:10,319 S5: story before the end happened and before it was resolved, 275 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,120 S5: which is usually when we hear testimonies and I would 276 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,040 S5: get to the end and I'd look up and people 277 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,280 S5: were just staring at me with this horrific look, like, 278 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,840 S5: oh my gosh. But then I would say, but you 279 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,920 S5: know what? God's not through with my story and I 280 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,560 S5: don't know what he's going to do or whether I'll 281 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,720 S5: get married or what he has planned, but I know 282 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,640 S5: something and that is that I got up this morning 283 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,860 S5: and I'm still breathing. So God's not through with my story. 284 00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:40,780 S5: And I really discovered that that's where people live, is 285 00:14:40,780 --> 00:14:42,780 S5: in the middle of the story. And when you are 286 00:14:42,780 --> 00:14:45,980 S5: still holding on to God, when he's not doing what 287 00:14:45,980 --> 00:14:48,220 S5: you want or when you're going through an illness, or 288 00:14:48,220 --> 00:14:50,940 S5: you're going through a death, or you're going through a tragedy, 289 00:14:51,340 --> 00:14:54,940 S5: that's when people know your faith is real. That's when 290 00:14:54,940 --> 00:14:59,260 S5: we have the strongest testimony. And so I really think 291 00:14:59,260 --> 00:15:02,380 S5: that we need more people standing up in the middle 292 00:15:02,380 --> 00:15:04,460 S5: of the story saying, I don't know what God's going 293 00:15:04,460 --> 00:15:06,140 S5: to do, but I'm choosing to hold on to him. 294 00:15:06,140 --> 00:15:08,700 S5: I believe that he has a plan in this, and 295 00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:11,260 S5: I don't know what it is yet. And and that 296 00:15:11,260 --> 00:15:13,900 S5: was true for me. And, and the other thing that 297 00:15:13,900 --> 00:15:17,180 S5: I learned is that sometimes the door that we're focused 298 00:15:17,180 --> 00:15:20,940 S5: on is not the door that God is opening at 299 00:15:20,940 --> 00:15:25,060 S5: a given time, but you need to pay attention to 300 00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:28,380 S5: that open door because one door can lead to another 301 00:15:28,380 --> 00:15:31,180 S5: door that leads to another door that actually could lead 302 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,960 S5: to the door you want. It's just a different route. 303 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,760 S5: And God wants you to follow him. Not for you 304 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,160 S5: to lead him. That's just not what he does. And 305 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,760 S5: and so for me, it was a random job opportunity 306 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,160 S5: that came up four months after my engagement broke up 307 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,920 S5: and it was in Santa Barbara. And of course, I 308 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,720 S5: was informed that there were no single people in Santa Barbara. 309 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:58,200 S5: Just before I left to take this job. And and yeah, 310 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,360 S5: that's what they said. Home of the new. They said, uh, 311 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,480 S5: newly wed and nearly dead, but there's no single people. 312 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,400 S5: And so I thought to myself, of course you're calling 313 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,160 S5: me there. And I went to work at a church, um, 314 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:13,960 S5: because I fell in love with it and it was 315 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,560 S5: the door got it open. And lo and behold, three 316 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:21,000 S5: years later, I met the most incredible person that I've 317 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,080 S5: been married to for now, 13 years. And he had 318 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,640 S5: a son. And it was a similar story in that 319 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,380 S5: his wife had left him. Um, but she moved to Australia, 320 00:16:30,380 --> 00:16:34,340 S5: so I got the opportunity to be a wife and 321 00:16:34,340 --> 00:16:37,500 S5: a mom at an age when I thought that it 322 00:16:37,500 --> 00:16:41,540 S5: could never happen again. And so it was, it ended 323 00:16:41,540 --> 00:16:43,900 S5: up being and for a variety of reasons. I mean, 324 00:16:43,940 --> 00:16:46,500 S5: I ended up writing a book on step parenting. So 325 00:16:46,900 --> 00:16:50,340 S5: you see that your story is not just for you, 326 00:16:50,340 --> 00:16:53,340 S5: it's for other people. And that's why we're called to 327 00:16:53,380 --> 00:16:53,900 S5: live it. 328 00:16:54,420 --> 00:16:57,740 S1: Wow. I want to say something about talking when you're 329 00:16:57,740 --> 00:16:59,460 S1: in the middle of the story when we get back, 330 00:16:59,460 --> 00:17:02,860 S1: because I think that's so crucial and so important. Laurie 331 00:17:02,860 --> 00:17:05,899 S1: Short is with us. Her book is called Faith, Doubt 332 00:17:05,900 --> 00:17:09,260 S1: and God's Mysterious Timing. And then she offers us in 333 00:17:09,260 --> 00:17:12,580 S1: the book 30 Biblical Insights about the Way God Works. 334 00:17:12,740 --> 00:17:18,220 S1: Wonderful passages that underscore every aspect of this mysterious timing 335 00:17:18,220 --> 00:17:33,640 S1: that is God's and God's alone. Back after this. Laurie 336 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,960 S1: Short is a speaker, author and part of the teaching 337 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,480 S1: team at Ocean Hills Covenant Church in Santa Barbara, California. 338 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,120 S1: She's also the author of the book Faith, Doubt, and 339 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,440 S1: God's Mysterious Timing. That's what we're talking about. And Laurie, 340 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,480 S1: in our last segment, you said something important. And that 341 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,879 S1: is and I offer this because whether you're on a platform, 342 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,520 S1: speaking at a conference or whether or not you're having 343 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,119 S1: coffee with a friend, we're called to tell the story 344 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,360 S1: of Jesus and what he is doing in for and 345 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,879 S1: through us. And I, you touched on something that I 346 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,000 S1: think a lot of believers deal with because they think 347 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,920 S1: it has to have the ending because to do otherwise, 348 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,200 S1: we somehow think that it doesn't give glory to God. 349 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,480 S1: But the fact that you trusted the Lord and you said, 350 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,040 S1: I'm going to tell the story when I'm in the 351 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,760 S1: middle of it without knowing what the outcome would be, 352 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,040 S1: I two things came to mind when you were talking. 353 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,520 S1: One is authenticity, because I think what happens so often 354 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,000 S1: for people sitting, you know, six rows back in the 355 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,440 S1: church when you're at the conference is, oh, well, she's 356 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,619 S1: got it all together. She probably gets up before four, 357 00:18:27,660 --> 00:18:30,580 S1: has devotion, is memorized 18 books out of the Bible. 358 00:18:30,580 --> 00:18:32,139 S1: And of course, God's going to bless her. And of 359 00:18:32,140 --> 00:18:34,020 S1: course it's all going to work out for her. And 360 00:18:34,020 --> 00:18:36,179 S1: we get this idea that if you're up there, you're 361 00:18:36,180 --> 00:18:39,260 S1: already in perfection. That doesn't happen to any of us. 362 00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:42,700 S1: You know, it's an ongoing process. And someday, when we're 363 00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:45,420 S1: standing in front of the unconditional lover of our soul, 364 00:18:45,660 --> 00:18:48,660 S1: we long to hear those words, well done, thou good 365 00:18:48,660 --> 00:18:50,980 S1: and faithful servant. Which means it ain't done till it's done. 366 00:18:50,980 --> 00:18:52,859 S1: And it's not done until we're in his presence. So 367 00:18:52,859 --> 00:18:55,660 S1: I think it's important we remember that. The second thing too, 368 00:18:55,700 --> 00:19:00,340 S1: is not only is it. It's transparent as well as authentic. 369 00:19:00,580 --> 00:19:03,820 S1: It really allows people to say, I'm in the process, 370 00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:09,020 S1: and if we're being conformed and transformed, those are present tense. 371 00:19:09,020 --> 00:19:11,179 S1: It's not past tense. And so I like the fact 372 00:19:11,180 --> 00:19:13,219 S1: that you were willing to say, I don't know how 373 00:19:13,220 --> 00:19:16,540 S1: this is going to end, because it really shows by 374 00:19:16,580 --> 00:19:20,140 S1: deed and word, a total and complete reliance on him, 375 00:19:20,140 --> 00:19:22,860 S1: which I think is so, so tremendously important. So thank 376 00:19:22,859 --> 00:19:25,440 S1: you for that. That was an important part of our conversation. 377 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,680 S1: But you touched on several things that happened to be 378 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,160 S1: also things that you elucidate in a more, um, enlarged 379 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,800 S1: fashion in the book. And that's this idea of our 380 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,320 S1: little leading to God's big. But before we get there, 381 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,280 S1: you start this out and you've got these ten beautiful principles, 382 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,400 S1: principles that you ask us to consider when it comes 383 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,679 S1: to God's mysterious timing. But you start by asking us 384 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,080 S1: to consider that something is happening bigger than what we 385 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:53,480 S1: ourselves might be seeing. We are by design me centric. 386 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,280 S1: We live in a culture that exalts me. I got 387 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,040 S1: my own truth. It's me centric. I check out the 388 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,919 S1: grocery store and it's in US magazine. It's a people magazine. 389 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,159 S1: It's all about me. I found my own truth. All 390 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,640 S1: of that other blather that's out there. And what you're 391 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,120 S1: saying is, wait a minute, we almost have to contextualize 392 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,120 S1: our individual experience in a much bigger picture. Why is 393 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:14,040 S1: that so crucial? 394 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,160 S5: Well, it's interesting, everything you just said points to the 395 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,219 S5: first story that I delve into, which of course, is 396 00:20:22,220 --> 00:20:25,020 S5: our friend Jobe, because he is known as the one 397 00:20:25,020 --> 00:20:29,139 S5: who went through the most. And what is interesting about 398 00:20:29,140 --> 00:20:32,020 S5: the middle of the story testimony is you see that 399 00:20:32,020 --> 00:20:37,140 S5: all throughout the book of job, Jobe literally spends every 400 00:20:37,180 --> 00:20:42,100 S5: chapter after this tragedy or multiple tragedies happened to him, 401 00:20:42,660 --> 00:20:45,500 S5: and because of no fault of his. But we as 402 00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:48,180 S5: the reader are the only ones that know that, and 403 00:20:48,180 --> 00:20:50,580 S5: his friends have told him that there must have been 404 00:20:50,580 --> 00:20:54,020 S5: something he did, because they are still of the quid 405 00:20:54,020 --> 00:20:57,419 S5: pro quo theology of. You know, if you do right, 406 00:20:57,420 --> 00:21:01,020 S5: then God does right, and vice versa. And Jobe is saying, no, 407 00:21:01,020 --> 00:21:04,540 S5: this isn't right, this isn't right. And he screams to 408 00:21:04,580 --> 00:21:07,979 S5: the sky the entire book of job. And frankly, Janet, 409 00:21:07,980 --> 00:21:12,219 S5: I love that because it just helps us to know 410 00:21:12,220 --> 00:21:15,459 S5: that God invites our honesty. He wants us to be 411 00:21:15,460 --> 00:21:18,860 S5: honest because Jobe is the one that God calls to 412 00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:21,960 S5: pray for his friends. At the end of the book, 413 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,240 S5: he says, job got it right. Job was right in 414 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,920 S5: what he what his response was. But what was interesting 415 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,600 S5: is I said, well, what you know, what changed for job? 416 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,520 S5: Because at the end of the book, he's repenting. Why 417 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,600 S5: is he repenting? Well, he never finds out why he suffered, 418 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,639 S5: but God takes him on a world tour and essentially 419 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,479 S5: changes his perspective. He shows him all of creation. And 420 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,119 S5: I don't know if you've ever had that feeling of 421 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,520 S5: standing below a sky full of stars at night, or 422 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,280 S5: in front of an ocean, or in front of a 423 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,760 S5: huge mountain, but this feeling of, oh my goodness, I 424 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:06,359 S5: am so small compared to this gigantic story that is 425 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,520 S5: going on around me. And that is what happens to job. 426 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,119 S5: He sees all that God is doing at any given 427 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:16,400 S5: moment of his life, and he repents because he realizes 428 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,660 S5: he doesn't Understand the meaning of his life and what 429 00:22:20,660 --> 00:22:23,740 S5: it will mean in the context of the bigger story. 430 00:22:24,020 --> 00:22:26,500 S5: And I think that we have to recognize that we 431 00:22:26,540 --> 00:22:30,980 S5: are playing a part in a much bigger story. And 432 00:22:30,980 --> 00:22:34,780 S5: I think about what job's suffering ended up meaning in 433 00:22:34,820 --> 00:22:38,859 S5: that bigger story, that he could never have guessed that thousands, 434 00:22:38,859 --> 00:22:42,860 S5: if not millions of people have taken solace in the 435 00:22:42,859 --> 00:22:46,620 S5: story that ended up getting written about his life. He 436 00:22:46,619 --> 00:22:48,860 S5: could have never seen that when he was living it. 437 00:22:48,859 --> 00:22:51,860 S5: And I think we have no idea the people that 438 00:22:51,859 --> 00:22:55,020 S5: we are touching at any given moment because of everything 439 00:22:55,020 --> 00:22:58,780 S5: that happens to us, and that is a perspective shift 440 00:22:58,780 --> 00:23:02,700 S5: that really helps me in my faith. And that's why 441 00:23:02,700 --> 00:23:04,500 S5: I opened the book with that, because I think if 442 00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:08,540 S5: we all had that perspective, we would be so much 443 00:23:08,540 --> 00:23:11,859 S5: more courageous in the way we lived our stories. 444 00:23:12,060 --> 00:23:14,060 S1: Yeah. So let me linger here because I think it's 445 00:23:14,060 --> 00:23:17,560 S1: a hugely important point. So there's job. And again, any 446 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,480 S1: figure in scripture, we're always thinking, well, that's job. I 447 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,280 S1: don't know if I could have done it, but that's job, right. 448 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,120 S1: But if you take away what you just said, which 449 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,680 S1: was so tremendously important, and by the way, I loved 450 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,760 S1: your picture about the stars. I've had that happen a 451 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:30,879 S1: gazillion times in my life, and I love it because 452 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,320 S1: I feel so dwarfed. I get the same thing standing 453 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,760 S1: by an ocean. God is so big and I am 454 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,320 S1: so small. What is man that thou art mindful of him? 455 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,919 S1: And I really love it because it keeps reminding me 456 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,520 S1: that he's not only big, he's he's majestic. He's omniscient. 457 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,680 S1: He's omnipresent. He can be trusted. All of those other 458 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,520 S1: attributes come pouring out. But this idea of seeing yourself 459 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,760 S1: in a bigger story, when we come back, talk to 460 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,600 S1: me about how we can do that, because when you're 461 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,400 S1: in pain, when you're in doubt, when you're living with 462 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,280 S1: questions and in the shadows, you think, how can you 463 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,840 S1: possibly change your perspective? It has to be done. How 464 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,919 S1: do we change that perspective? So we really contextualize it 465 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,280 S1: that we might be something part of a much bigger 466 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,920 S1: story that we may never know until we're in his presence. 467 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,620 S1: I'll get the answer to that when we return, Laurie's 468 00:24:15,619 --> 00:24:18,940 S1: book is called Faith, doubt and God's Mysterious Timing back 469 00:24:18,940 --> 00:24:45,180 S1: after this. How often do you tune into in the market? 470 00:24:45,180 --> 00:24:47,780 S1: Once or twice a week, every day. If this program 471 00:24:47,780 --> 00:24:50,179 S1: is valuable to you, why not become a partial partner? 472 00:24:50,220 --> 00:24:53,220 S1: Your financial support is invaluable as we apply God's Word 473 00:24:53,220 --> 00:24:56,020 S1: to current events in modern culture. Knowing we can count 474 00:24:56,020 --> 00:24:59,060 S1: on your monthly gift encourages us to deliver relevant and 475 00:24:59,060 --> 00:25:01,980 S1: up to date content every day. Become a partial partner 476 00:25:01,980 --> 00:25:05,260 S1: today by calling eight seven, seven Janet 58 or go 477 00:25:05,260 --> 00:25:10,540 S1: online to In the Market with Janet Parshall. We're visiting 478 00:25:10,540 --> 00:25:14,400 S1: with Laurie Short. She is a popular speaker and author 479 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,560 S1: and part of the teaching team at Ocean Hills Covenant 480 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:21,240 S1: Church in beautiful Santa Barbara, California. She's a Fuller Theological Seminary, 481 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,879 S1: and she's spoken to more than half a million people 482 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,919 S1: at conferences, colleges, churches, and denominational events all across the country. 483 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,280 S1: Her new book is called Faith, Doubt and God's Mysterious 484 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,479 S1: Timing 30 Biblical Insights About the Way God Works Now. 485 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,119 S1: I punched that 30 because this is not a book report. 486 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,960 S1: I'm not going to cover all 30 points in this conversation. 487 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,360 S1: But if I've got you thinking deeply, critically, biblically about 488 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,560 S1: God's sovereignty and his timing, even when you think his 489 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,560 S1: watch is broken and he doesn't move as fast as 490 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,160 S1: you want him to, you're going to discover something about 491 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,720 S1: the nature of God. This is book. This is a book. 492 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,240 S1: And I'm more and more convicted about this as I 493 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,639 S1: go on that we need a higher view of God. 494 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,280 S1: We need to understand who he is and his characteristics 495 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,000 S1: as He Himself reveals them to us through his living Word. 496 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,359 S1: So Lord, that takes me back to something you said before, 497 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,100 S1: one of the ten strong points that you make in 498 00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:16,460 S1: breaking down these 30 biblical insights is that more might 499 00:26:16,460 --> 00:26:18,940 S1: be happening than when we can see. So you went 500 00:26:18,940 --> 00:26:23,060 S1: to job and you talked about his perspective after all 501 00:26:23,060 --> 00:26:25,660 S1: of this suffering took place. Well, let me personalize it 502 00:26:25,660 --> 00:26:27,780 S1: for you. You're in the midst of all of this. 503 00:26:27,820 --> 00:26:32,939 S1: You have a public engagement that doesn't come through. And 504 00:26:32,940 --> 00:26:35,380 S1: how were you in the midst of that pain, in 505 00:26:35,380 --> 00:26:38,020 S1: the midst of that moment of questioning, and you would 506 00:26:38,060 --> 00:26:41,220 S1: have been asleep if you hadn't been questioning every single 507 00:26:41,220 --> 00:26:43,900 S1: person would have been, Why God? Why now? But how 508 00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:47,020 S1: do you contextualize that? To say, it's okay, Lord, this 509 00:26:47,020 --> 00:26:49,260 S1: might be part of a bigger picture when you're in 510 00:26:49,260 --> 00:26:51,820 S1: the midst not looking backwards because vision is always clear, 511 00:26:51,820 --> 00:26:53,660 S1: isn't it? When we look in the rear view mirror. 512 00:26:53,820 --> 00:26:55,660 S1: But when you're in the midst of it, how do 513 00:26:55,660 --> 00:26:59,580 S1: we exercise that spiritual muscle to get to the point 514 00:26:59,580 --> 00:27:03,340 S1: where we are saying, your will but not mine, your God? 515 00:27:03,380 --> 00:27:05,820 S1: I'm not your ways or not my way? How do 516 00:27:05,820 --> 00:27:07,979 S1: I get to that point where I'm willing to say, 517 00:27:08,180 --> 00:27:10,320 S1: I can't see everything here on the underside of the 518 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,320 S1: woven garment. I don't know what the final piece is 519 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:12,880 S1: going to be. 520 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:19,280 S5: Well, I can say truthfully, I didn't do it perfectly, 521 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,679 S5: and I actually find comfort in the fact that I 522 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:27,359 S5: think that pain is something we don't need to hide. 523 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:33,280 S5: We have to feel it. And sometimes we don't understand. 524 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,719 S5: And living in that question is one of the challenges 525 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,679 S5: of the Christian faith. And speaking about it in the 526 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,359 S5: middle of it is, is even more challenging. But, you know, 527 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,399 S5: it's interesting, Janet, because I moved from job to job 528 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,560 S5: and I think he has so much to, to tell 529 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,760 S5: us as well. And I'm not talking about Joseph, Mary, Joseph, 530 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,640 S5: but the Old Testament. Joseph, because we get ten chapters 531 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,520 S5: of his story and most people are familiar with his story, 532 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,840 S5: that he starts out with all these dreams of his greatness. 533 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,980 S5: But the route getting there is through humility and pain. 534 00:28:09,380 --> 00:28:11,700 S5: And one of the things that happens to him is 535 00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:14,419 S5: his brothers are so jealous, they sell him into slavery. 536 00:28:14,420 --> 00:28:20,380 S5: And we discover at the end, even though Joseph realizes 537 00:28:20,700 --> 00:28:23,740 S5: that all of these things happen for a reason, because 538 00:28:24,060 --> 00:28:27,620 S5: he ended up, you know, becoming a slave. Then he 539 00:28:27,619 --> 00:28:30,619 S5: gets sent to jail unjustly. Then he spends two years 540 00:28:30,619 --> 00:28:34,140 S5: in jail, and then from there he does rise to 541 00:28:34,180 --> 00:28:37,820 S5: power and becomes second only to Pharaoh because of his 542 00:28:37,820 --> 00:28:41,140 S5: ability to interpret dreams. And so he's used for the 543 00:28:41,140 --> 00:28:43,820 S5: greater purpose of getting them through a famine because of 544 00:28:43,820 --> 00:28:46,900 S5: Pharaoh's dream that this is going to happen. And so 545 00:28:46,900 --> 00:28:49,900 S5: he's able to see that, you know, when he when 546 00:28:49,900 --> 00:28:53,380 S5: he is reunited with his brothers, he's able to see 547 00:28:53,380 --> 00:28:56,860 S5: that God allowed this for a greater purpose to help 548 00:28:56,860 --> 00:29:00,380 S5: many people. He states that twice in Scripture. But Janet, 549 00:29:00,380 --> 00:29:03,860 S5: if you look, he is crying through it. Even at 550 00:29:03,860 --> 00:29:06,520 S5: the end of the book He is crying when he 551 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,000 S5: sees his brothers because they're afraid when Jacob dies, that 552 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,160 S5: now he's going to rescind on all this, even though 553 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,040 S5: it's been many, many years. When they come before him 554 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,280 S5: and say, please don't. Please don't kill us. We'll be 555 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,680 S5: your slaves, he cries again. And that tells me that 556 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:26,400 S5: our emotions are very important and okay to God, and 557 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,560 S5: there will be pain. I even say in the book, 558 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,600 S5: pain is not always absolved. When you do understand what 559 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,960 S5: the greater good for it is. You still have to 560 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,720 S5: feel it. And your pain is actually the greatest connecting 561 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,840 S5: point that you have to another person. In fact, I 562 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,040 S5: believe that it's our pain that is our ministry. Many, 563 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,120 S5: many times there are people who have had extended periods 564 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,560 S5: of singleness that still, even though I've been married now 565 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:01,000 S5: for 13 years, they know. I understand what that's like. 566 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,900 S5: They they know that they wouldn't go to someone who 567 00:30:03,900 --> 00:30:07,180 S5: got married in their 20s and bare their souls to them. 568 00:30:07,300 --> 00:30:09,620 S5: There wouldn't be a connection. I mean, you can feel 569 00:30:09,620 --> 00:30:12,580 S5: bad about somebody who's going through something that you haven't 570 00:30:12,580 --> 00:30:16,180 S5: been through, but when you've been through it, you understand 571 00:30:16,180 --> 00:30:20,580 S5: it differently. That is the genius of recovery groups. People 572 00:30:20,580 --> 00:30:26,100 S5: come together over shared pain, shared experiences, and God uses 573 00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:29,340 S5: that in our life. And then I think he also 574 00:30:29,380 --> 00:30:32,860 S5: uses it in ways we can't even imagine, because there 575 00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:35,780 S5: have been so many things that now, as you mentioned, 576 00:30:35,820 --> 00:30:38,780 S5: the rear view mirror. God is always 2020. We see 577 00:30:38,780 --> 00:30:41,620 S5: so much more of what he was doing, but I 578 00:30:41,620 --> 00:30:44,900 S5: see not only did he use my singleness, but I 579 00:30:44,940 --> 00:30:46,979 S5: have to tell you, Janet, there was never a time 580 00:30:46,980 --> 00:30:48,900 S5: as a little girl that I said, oh God, I 581 00:30:48,900 --> 00:30:51,460 S5: hope one day I can be a second wife and 582 00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:53,860 S5: raise a child as a stepmom. I mean, these were 583 00:30:53,860 --> 00:30:57,540 S5: not my prayers, but I came into a situation that 584 00:30:57,540 --> 00:31:03,200 S5: was broken and I was able to be a healing 585 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,960 S5: agent in the midst of that. And God used me 586 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,440 S5: in a way that was meant to touch other people. 587 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,880 S5: And I can see that now and then. I ended 588 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,560 S5: up writing a book on step parenting and, and presenting 589 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,160 S5: it as a calling that we can have to be 590 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,800 S5: to be in that situation as a Christian. And so 591 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,880 S5: there I look back and I can see so many things, 592 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,680 S5: but it doesn't take away the pain that I still 593 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,720 S5: feel over not being a biological mom, because it didn't 594 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,640 S5: happen early enough for me. There are things that we 595 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:39,480 S5: carry throughout our lives, just like Jesus did, and Jesus 596 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,320 S5: shows us and models for us how to hold pain 597 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,400 S5: and still do the thing that God has us here 598 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,040 S5: to do, because we are always affecting more people than 599 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:51,800 S5: we can see. 600 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,960 S1: Mhm. Oh, boy. There's real richness in everything that you 601 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,360 S1: just said. So let me go to another part of 602 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,100 S1: the book. And this one I thought was so important. 603 00:32:00,100 --> 00:32:02,980 S1: I remember talking to a young woman who had come 604 00:32:02,980 --> 00:32:07,060 S1: out of a horribly abusive marriage, and she was dating 605 00:32:07,060 --> 00:32:12,620 S1: someone who was absolutely a borderline personality, and that ended 606 00:32:12,620 --> 00:32:15,060 S1: up breaking up. And so it was misery upon misery. 607 00:32:15,060 --> 00:32:17,180 S1: And I asked her, what if God's plan for you 608 00:32:17,180 --> 00:32:20,940 S1: was singleness? And without skipping a beat, no, absolutely not. 609 00:32:21,220 --> 00:32:23,940 S1: And I thought, whoa, okay, well, there may be more 610 00:32:23,940 --> 00:32:26,540 S1: problems in the future if you're not willing to submit 611 00:32:26,540 --> 00:32:29,860 S1: to him. So you address this in principle in your 612 00:32:29,860 --> 00:32:34,100 S1: chapter called Forcing your Way can Complicate Your Life. Talk 613 00:32:34,100 --> 00:32:36,219 S1: to me about that because in other words, sometimes we go, 614 00:32:36,260 --> 00:32:37,780 S1: I'll take it from here, God. Never mind. That's not 615 00:32:37,820 --> 00:32:39,940 S1: what I wanted. I'm going to do my own thing. Yeah, well, 616 00:32:39,940 --> 00:32:42,580 S1: how'd that turn out for? I could list 50 Bible 617 00:32:42,580 --> 00:32:47,980 S1: characters right now, but what happened? When we say it's 618 00:32:47,980 --> 00:32:51,260 S1: my way, Lord, I'm going to do it. Why can we? 619 00:32:51,300 --> 00:32:53,180 S1: You know, he had trouble with his own house, inherits 620 00:32:53,180 --> 00:32:55,540 S1: the wind. This. You just might be asking for a 621 00:32:55,540 --> 00:32:58,000 S1: whole lot more trouble here if we kind of like 622 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,200 S1: a petulant child, dig our feet in and say, I'm 623 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:01,280 S1: doing it my way, Lord. 624 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,360 S5: Well, I can point you to a verse that really 625 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,720 S5: shifted me in this area. And that is Isaiah 5010, 626 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,680 S5: which was my promise verse for three years. I would 627 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,040 S5: write it in my journal every year. Let the one 628 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,520 S5: who walks in the dark, who has no light, trust 629 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,080 S5: in the name of the Lord and rely on your God. 630 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,040 S5: It was the verse that I had memorized. But Janet, 631 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,320 S5: I had never looked at the next verse. And when 632 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,480 S5: I did, I couldn't believe the insight that it gave 633 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,240 S5: us about exactly what you're talking about. Because the next 634 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,200 S5: verse after that says, but woe to you who light 635 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,960 S5: your own fires and provide your own flames. This is 636 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,760 S5: what you will receive. You will lie down in torment. 637 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,480 S5: And that's not the verse you write on social media. 638 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,360 S5: That's not the verse anybody talks about. And but I thought, 639 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,280 S5: you know, that is so true. And it's let me 640 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,620 S5: be clear to say that it's not that God abandons 641 00:33:56,620 --> 00:33:59,140 S5: us when we walk away. We see so many examples 642 00:33:59,140 --> 00:34:01,380 S5: of that in Scripture. I mean, Abraham and Sarah, they 643 00:34:01,380 --> 00:34:04,940 S5: couldn't wait any longer, so they recruited Hagar. God is 644 00:34:04,940 --> 00:34:09,740 S5: the redeeming God. The one who sees God follows every story, 645 00:34:09,780 --> 00:34:13,900 S5: no matter how dark yours has gone. But we make 646 00:34:13,940 --> 00:34:18,140 S5: our lives so much more complicated when we don't wait, 647 00:34:18,340 --> 00:34:23,060 S5: or we make compromises that clearly are compromises that we 648 00:34:23,060 --> 00:34:25,979 S5: know we're making. But we're just. We can't wait any longer. 649 00:34:26,020 --> 00:34:28,100 S5: If I had said, you know what? I'm not willing 650 00:34:28,140 --> 00:34:30,859 S5: not to be a biological mom, so I am going 651 00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:33,379 S5: to marry the next guy that is interested in me. 652 00:34:33,380 --> 00:34:35,860 S5: And I don't care if he's a Christian or not. 653 00:34:35,860 --> 00:34:38,500 S5: God's not doing what I want. And there are many, 654 00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:42,540 S5: many people that make those decisions. And then this torment, 655 00:34:42,540 --> 00:34:47,180 S5: I believe, is not necessarily God inflicted. We inflict sometimes 656 00:34:47,180 --> 00:34:51,300 S5: our own torment by making those decisions and and God 657 00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:54,799 S5: always redeems them. It's never too late. And I make 658 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,640 S5: that very clear in the book. The Bible makes that clear. 659 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:02,640 S5: So clear. But we can avoid so much of that 660 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,000 S5: if we hold on. And I will tell you, it 661 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,000 S5: required sacrifice for me because I had to lay down 662 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,359 S5: my biological clock to wait for whatever God had for me. 663 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,560 S5: I made that decision, and I always say I was 664 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,000 S5: a little bit like Peter when Jesus starts having hard 665 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,880 S5: teachings and and then he looks up and the disciples 666 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,640 S5: are going, wait a minute, I don't know anymore. And then, 667 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,399 S5: you know, and he says, well, what about you? Are 668 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,320 S5: you going to go to. And Peter says, where would 669 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,320 S5: we go? And that's how I felt. I was like, God, 670 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,960 S5: I am too far in to go another direction. I 671 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,920 S5: know too much about you. You're too real to me. 672 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,160 S5: But this is not the plan that I had. And 673 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,359 S5: I had to decide if I was going to hold 674 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,279 S5: on to him, or if I was going to hold 675 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:50,480 S5: on to my plan. 676 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,340 S1: Yes, Exactly. That's CS Lewis. Two kinds of people in 677 00:35:54,340 --> 00:35:57,940 S1: the world. Those who say thy will be done. They 678 00:35:57,940 --> 00:35:59,660 S1: say it to God, thy will be done. And those 679 00:35:59,660 --> 00:36:02,739 S1: to whom God says, okay, thy will be done. There's 680 00:36:02,780 --> 00:36:05,020 S1: a stark difference between the two. But I loved what 681 00:36:05,020 --> 00:36:06,779 S1: you just said, Laura, about even when we go to 682 00:36:06,820 --> 00:36:10,859 S1: plan B, not God's plan A, he still restores and 683 00:36:10,860 --> 00:36:13,219 S1: he still redeems, and he never turns his back on us, 684 00:36:13,219 --> 00:36:16,060 S1: even when we really mess up. Laura Schwartz brand new 685 00:36:16,060 --> 00:36:19,940 S1: book is called Faith, doubt and God's Mysterious Timing. Rich, rich, 686 00:36:19,940 --> 00:36:22,820 S1: rich with biblical truths. For those who might be struggling 687 00:36:22,820 --> 00:36:26,739 S1: in this area about God's perfect yet mysterious timing. Back 688 00:36:26,739 --> 00:36:43,379 S1: after this. The Bible calls us to be bold and 689 00:36:43,380 --> 00:36:45,419 S1: courageous for the cause of the cross. But too often 690 00:36:45,420 --> 00:36:48,339 S1: we retreat because of fear of cultural blowback. That's why 691 00:36:48,340 --> 00:36:50,480 S1: I've chosen call to take a bold stand as this 692 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,160 S1: month's truth tool. Discover how to overcome the fear of 693 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,279 S1: intimidation or persecution. As for your copy of call to 694 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:57,920 S1: take a bold stand. When you give a gift of 695 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,160 S1: any amount to in the market, call 877. Janet 58. 696 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,439 S1: That's 877. Janet 58. Or go to in the market 697 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:12,000 S1: with Janet Parshall. Faith, doubt and God's mysterious timing. 30 698 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,920 S1: Biblical Insights about the Way God Works. Excellent book by 699 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,080 S1: Laurie Short, who's a speaker and author and part of 700 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,360 S1: the teaching team in Santa Barbara at the Ocean Hills 701 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,000 S1: Covenant Church. By the way, I've got a link to 702 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,360 S1: her website. Easy to remember, so don't worry about writing 703 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,040 S1: it down. It's right there in our info page. Laurie Short. 704 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,680 S1: Com Laurie Short. Com. So, Laurie, again, I want to 705 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,840 S1: point out to my friends, very beautifully researched and written again, 706 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,359 S1: weaving us in and out of all of these biblical stories. 707 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,439 S1: And I am and I will say it again, so 708 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,440 S1: very grateful. My favorite films are biopics. So I really 709 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,680 S1: resonate with the biographies of Scripture because these are broken 710 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,580 S1: people who are flawed and yet God uses them in 711 00:37:49,580 --> 00:37:52,580 S1: a profound way to mete out his good and perfect will. 712 00:37:52,580 --> 00:37:55,260 S1: And I can so relate. You were talking about Peter, 713 00:37:55,260 --> 00:37:58,820 S1: and I always smile because I'm thinking, that's me. Just. Yeah, yeah. Yes, Lord. Boom. 714 00:37:58,820 --> 00:38:01,100 S1: Right down in the lake. Just like that. So let 715 00:38:01,100 --> 00:38:02,860 S1: me go to another section of the book, which I 716 00:38:02,860 --> 00:38:04,620 S1: thought was good. And it really works in tandem with 717 00:38:04,620 --> 00:38:07,820 S1: what we were just talking about. You entitled it. Holding 718 00:38:07,820 --> 00:38:11,660 S1: on may mean letting go. We often quote this, particularly 719 00:38:11,660 --> 00:38:14,340 S1: when we come around Easter time and Good Friday, where 720 00:38:14,380 --> 00:38:18,060 S1: Jesus really is victorious. Not in the moment when he says, 721 00:38:18,100 --> 00:38:20,779 S1: is it? It is finished. But I think really in 722 00:38:20,780 --> 00:38:23,860 S1: the garden when he submits and he says, if it's possible, 723 00:38:23,860 --> 00:38:26,620 S1: let this cup pass from me. But nevertheless, Lord, not 724 00:38:26,620 --> 00:38:30,819 S1: my will but thine. In that declaration was the victory. 725 00:38:30,820 --> 00:38:35,620 S1: And it comes paradoxically through submission, which so often saints 726 00:38:35,660 --> 00:38:40,259 S1: juxtapose to defeat instead of submission. Talk to me about this, 727 00:38:40,260 --> 00:38:42,500 S1: because when I was a child in Sunday school, we 728 00:38:42,500 --> 00:38:44,900 S1: had this little adage, and I'm so glad it was simplistic, 729 00:38:44,900 --> 00:38:47,520 S1: but it was profound. I know not what the future holds, 730 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,000 S1: but I know who holds the future. Rather than being 731 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,319 S1: just some little bumper sticker on a car or a 732 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,440 S1: sticky on a refrigerator, it's a profound reality that he's 733 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,880 S1: in charge, that whatever's going to happen has been vetted 734 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,200 S1: in the throne room of heaven first. And he is 735 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,200 S1: a God who can be trusted. But just like you 736 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,600 S1: and your wonderful story, sometimes it means it's not going 737 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,319 S1: to turn out the way you wanted. Which really, when 738 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,600 S1: you think about it at its core, is rather audacious. 739 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,000 S1: Why would I know better for my life than the 740 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,840 S1: one who gave me life in and of himself? But again, 741 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:19,640 S1: this is a kind of spiritual muscle that has to 742 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,280 S1: be developed. Talk to me about this. 743 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:27,200 S5: Well, I use the analogy of rappelling, which, if any 744 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,600 S5: listeners have ever been rappelling, means that you are hooked 745 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,040 S5: in to some ropes, that the person who has done 746 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,200 S5: this to you has assured you they will hold you, 747 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,920 S5: but you have to throw yourself back. And in fact, 748 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,140 S5: I even tried this. If you lean forward just a 749 00:39:47,140 --> 00:39:50,540 S5: little bit because you want to help the rope, then 750 00:39:50,540 --> 00:39:53,580 S5: it will not work like it does when you throw 751 00:39:53,620 --> 00:39:55,899 S5: yourself back, because that is when you really see that 752 00:39:55,900 --> 00:39:58,900 S5: the rope is holding you. And this principle of letting 753 00:39:58,900 --> 00:40:02,859 S5: go is not an unusual one, because it's something we 754 00:40:02,860 --> 00:40:06,460 S5: have to exercise in every relationship that we're in. In 755 00:40:06,460 --> 00:40:08,620 S5: order to hold on to the relationship, you have to 756 00:40:08,660 --> 00:40:12,980 S5: let go of so much. And it's when we cling 757 00:40:13,140 --> 00:40:17,220 S5: that the actual opposite happens. And I use some very 758 00:40:17,219 --> 00:40:22,140 S5: interesting examples in scripture. The first is Esau, who I 759 00:40:22,140 --> 00:40:26,700 S5: think is a very underrated hero in in the Old Testament, 760 00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:29,140 S5: because we really don't hear too much about his story 761 00:40:29,140 --> 00:40:34,340 S5: because Jacob, um, has made his way as the deceiver, 762 00:40:34,380 --> 00:40:37,739 S5: the controller and, and gotten the birthright. And then the 763 00:40:37,739 --> 00:40:42,419 S5: story follows Jacob. But Esau had to let go of 764 00:40:42,420 --> 00:40:45,759 S5: the birthright that should have been his. And what we 765 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,720 S5: discover later on. And it's just a few verses. But 766 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,520 S5: Jacob is now going to meet Esau later in life, 767 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,080 S5: and it's after his marriages and his children, and he 768 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,320 S5: hasn't seen him for years. And when he left, Esau 769 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,399 S5: was furious, of course, understandably, because of what Jacob had 770 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:08,080 S5: taken from him. But when he finds him again, he 771 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,960 S5: thinks that Esau is bringing this army in back of 772 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,239 S5: him because he has all these people in back of him. 773 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,719 S5: So clearly, the man has been successful in his life. 774 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,719 S5: And they actually, some scholars think that Jesus was drawing 775 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,440 S5: from this story when he tells the story of the 776 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:30,359 S5: prodigal son, because Esau, in fact, instead of attacking Jacob, 777 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:35,560 S5: comes running to him as Jacob is terrified and then 778 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:40,640 S5: throws his arms around him and it's just he and 779 00:41:40,739 --> 00:41:43,899 S5: Jacob's trying to give him gifts and apologize. No, no, no, 780 00:41:43,940 --> 00:41:47,140 S5: my brother, God has been so good to me. You know, 781 00:41:47,180 --> 00:41:49,700 S5: it is so good to see you. And Jacob is 782 00:41:49,700 --> 00:41:54,580 S5: so overwhelmed by Esau's generous grace that he says seeing 783 00:41:54,580 --> 00:41:58,380 S5: you is like seeing the face of God. And so here, Esau, 784 00:41:58,380 --> 00:42:02,379 S5: something happened to him in the unknown parts of of 785 00:42:02,420 --> 00:42:05,899 S5: Esau's story, where he let go of the life that 786 00:42:05,900 --> 00:42:09,660 S5: he thought he should have had and embraced the life 787 00:42:09,660 --> 00:42:13,379 S5: he did have. And that, I think, is our quest 788 00:42:13,380 --> 00:42:16,940 S5: in life. I don't know what it is that you've 789 00:42:16,940 --> 00:42:18,980 S5: had to let go of, but every one of us 790 00:42:18,980 --> 00:42:22,900 S5: has to let go of something and we have to 791 00:42:22,900 --> 00:42:25,259 S5: make a decision. Are we going to live the life 792 00:42:25,260 --> 00:42:27,739 S5: that God has given us, or are we going to 793 00:42:27,739 --> 00:42:30,219 S5: fight for the rest of our life and be bitter 794 00:42:30,219 --> 00:42:32,660 S5: that we didn't have this or we didn't have that? 795 00:42:32,700 --> 00:42:37,380 S5: I think understanding that every life has pain is also 796 00:42:37,580 --> 00:42:41,160 S5: something that helps us in living our own story, because 797 00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,040 S5: so often we're focused on the pain we have, and 798 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,280 S5: then we see other people that don't experience that same pain, 799 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,279 S5: but they do experience pain. It's just coming in a 800 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,640 S5: different package. So it really is about embracing this life 801 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,399 S5: that God has given you and knowing that you're the 802 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:01,000 S5: only you on the face of this earth, and only 803 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,040 S5: you can live your story. 804 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,200 S1: Wow, Lori, one last quick but important question. And that 805 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,960 S1: is you told the story of your broken engagement. But 806 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,000 S1: I'm pretty sure as a sister in the Lord, that 807 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,440 S1: isn't the only time you've had to trust the Lord 808 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:20,799 S1: on his mysterious timing. How do we get the perseverance necessary? 809 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:25,880 S1: Because this will be an ongoing experience of moving, trusting, waiting, moving, trusting, 810 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:27,960 S1: waiting until the day he calls us home. How do 811 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,520 S1: we develop that perseverance? 812 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,040 S5: Well, interesting you should ask Janet. I think the only 813 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,640 S5: way we develop it is the way God gives us 814 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,379 S5: that lesson. and that is experiencing it. And every time 815 00:43:40,380 --> 00:43:44,779 S5: we experience God's faithfulness after we've gone through it, then 816 00:43:44,780 --> 00:43:46,980 S5: we're that much stronger for the next time. 817 00:43:47,460 --> 00:43:50,420 S1: Wow, what a wonderful note to end this conversation on. 818 00:43:50,620 --> 00:43:53,260 S1: Let me just underscore to my friends again, we touched 819 00:43:53,260 --> 00:43:57,060 S1: on barely and not even deeply on three of these 820 00:43:57,060 --> 00:43:59,779 S1: ten principles that are in the book and didn't even 821 00:43:59,780 --> 00:44:02,740 S1: touch on all the 30 biblical references that are included 822 00:44:02,739 --> 00:44:05,500 S1: in the book about God's mysterious timing. So in other words, 823 00:44:05,500 --> 00:44:08,100 S1: what I'm trying to tell you is there's richness in 824 00:44:08,140 --> 00:44:10,700 S1: that writing and gold in them there hills, if I 825 00:44:10,700 --> 00:44:12,460 S1: can put it that way. The book is called Faith, 826 00:44:12,500 --> 00:44:16,580 S1: doubt and God's Mysterious Timing 30 Biblical Insights about the 827 00:44:16,580 --> 00:44:18,340 S1: Way God Works. And you can go to our info 828 00:44:18,340 --> 00:44:21,420 S1: page at In the Market with Janet G. Click on 829 00:44:21,460 --> 00:44:24,500 S1: that red box. It says Program Details and audio. It'll 830 00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:26,259 S1: take you right to where you need to go. There's 831 00:44:26,260 --> 00:44:28,820 S1: a beautiful picture of Lori, a link to her website. 832 00:44:28,820 --> 00:44:30,980 S1: The book's on the right hand side. Click through and 833 00:44:30,980 --> 00:44:33,100 S1: you'll get your copy. Lori, thank you so much. Thank 834 00:44:33,100 --> 00:44:34,660 S1: you friends, we'll see you next time.