S1: We were horrified when Hamas attacked Israel last October, but
S1: the events that followed also had an enormous impact on
S1: Palestinian believers in the Gaza Strip. Tom Doyle has been
S1: there many times. In just a few minutes, he brings
S1: us the stories of brothers and sisters who are dealing
S1: with the literal fallout. These are amazing testimonies from inside
S1: Gaza that we need to hear. Welcome to the land
S1: and the book. Doctor Charlie Dyer is a guy who
S1: spent his entire life studying, traveling, and writing about the
S1: Middle East. I'm John Geiger, and of course, Israel has
S1: been in the news a whole lot over this past year,
S1: and the Bible is jam packed with end times prophecies
S1: about epic world events, the regathering of the Jewish people
S1: to their homeland, and Jesus return. So it's crucial for
S1: us as believers, though, to have a proper understanding of
S1: Bible prophecy. So our view of the future is shaped
S1: by Scripture and not just today's headlines. Right, Charlie?
S2: That's right. John. And with this in mind, our friends
S2: at Life and Messiah have published a book titled God,
S2: Israel and Bible Prophecy and are offering it to listeners
S2: of the land in the book for a limited time.
S2: This informative book is focused on providing readers with deeper
S2: understanding and greater appreciation of what God has in store
S2: for Israel and the nations by digging into what the
S2: scriptures say about these issues. Now, if you're interested in
S2: learning more about what God has in store, visit Life
S2: in Messiah. Org and click on the Moody Radio button
S2: to find out how you can receive your copy of God,
S2: Israel and Bible Prophecy. That's life in messiah.org. Well, another.
S1: Week has gone by, and at least up to the
S1: moment that we're recording this broadcast. Israel has yet to
S1: respond to Iran's missile attack on October the 1st. Why
S1: has Israel taken so long to respond, many wonder.
S2: Yeah, and it could be a be multiple reasons for
S2: the delay. Now, one could be the US pressure on
S2: Israel not to attack Iran's nuclear facilities or oil production facilities.
S2: In fact, Blinken was just in Israel earlier this week
S2: and is trying to push back on Israel to not
S2: respond too harshly. The final decision still belongs to Israel,
S2: but it does take time to explore and plan for
S2: all those different options. Another reason could be that it
S2: took time for the US to send and set up
S2: that Thad, our terminal High Altitude area defense system to
S2: Israel with additional protection against Iranian missiles. Well, that system
S2: is finally in place. Still another reason for Israel's delayed
S2: response could be the leak of US intelligence documents outlining
S2: Israel's potential attack plan. Those documents appeared on a pro-Iranian
S2: internet site and provided information gleaned from US intelligence. This
S2: could have caused Israel to pause and reassess its plans.
S2: But all of these aren't the only items that might
S2: have caused a delay. Last year's attack took place on
S2: Simchat Torah, the final day of Sukkot. This year that
S2: occurred on Friday. So it's possible Israel waited until this
S2: one year anniversary on the religious calendar was over. A
S2: drone attack launched by Hezbollah hit Prime Minister Netanyahu's home
S2: in Caesarea. Thankfully, he and his wife weren't there at
S2: the time. But there are reports that individuals in Iran's
S2: embassy in Beirut were involved in that attempted assassination, and
S2: that also could have changed Israel's selection of targets in Iran.
S2: And finally, Israel's broken up several Iranian spy rings in
S2: their country. One carried out hundreds of tasks, including photographing
S2: and collecting information on air bases and Israel's defense headquarters
S2: in Tel Aviv. Another ring was working to assassinate an
S2: Israeli nuclear scientist and the mayor of a large city,
S2: and also photographing key facilities and purchasing weapons. Now, shutting
S2: down spy networks takes time, and Israel wants to make
S2: sure they know what was collected and sent to Iran. Now,
S2: all this to say, Israel hasn't been sitting around doing
S2: nothing for the past several weeks. They've they've been busy
S2: preparing and as we might say, putting out fires to
S2: make sure their attack is successful. They're also working out
S2: plans to counter any expected Iranian response. But as I
S2: said last week, it's not a question of if Israel
S2: will respond, but when and how. And I think we
S2: could expect that response to happen very soon. In fact,
S2: it could even happen between the time we record this
S2: program and the time it airs.
S1: Charlie, any thought that the supposed leaked documents about this attack,
S1: this is all something of a smokescreen, misdirection, spycraft on
S1: the part of Israel? Or is that not really possible?
S2: You know, in the spy game, anything is possible. Although
S2: there are enough reports on this that it sounds like
S2: it actually was a literal leak that came out of
S2: the US defense area offices, and the information that was
S2: posted online did look credible.
S1: Well, following last week's killing of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar,
S1: some were hoping it would open the door for negotiations
S1: to end the conflict in Gaza and release the hostages,
S1: what impact could his death have on the war?
S2: On the positive side, Sinwar's death eliminated the key military
S2: leader who embodied Hamas. Israel had earlier eliminated Ismail Haniyeh,
S2: who was the political leader of Hamas. But Sinwar was
S2: the architect of Hamas's attack on October 7th because he
S2: had become both the political and military head of Hamas
S2: following Haniya's death in August. Many thought his death would
S2: lead to the collapse of Hamas, and they hoped the
S2: remaining political leaders outside Gaza would then strike a deal
S2: with Israel and agree to return the hostages. And while
S2: that might still be possible, I'm less optimistic. Some are concerned.
S2: Sinwar might have ordered all the hostages to be killed
S2: following his death, though that's not known for certain. But
S2: even more than that, Hamas's charter in its preamble says
S2: Israel will exist and continue to exist until Islam will
S2: obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it. Their
S2: article seven quotes from the hadith saying the Day of
S2: Judgment won't come until Muslims fight Jews and kill them.
S2: And in terms of making a peace agreement or some
S2: sort of agreement with Israel. Article 13 says there is
S2: no solution for the Palestinian problem except by jihad. In
S2: other words, complete opposition to Israel is part of the
S2: very spiritual DNA of Hamas. And in light of that,
S2: I think they're going to continue fighting and hope that
S2: Iran or Hezbollah will wear down Israel enough to have
S2: them finally agree to a cease fire, at which point
S2: Hamas would hope to regather, rebuild and eventually resume their
S2: attacks instead of releasing the hostages. I think it's just
S2: as likely they will kill them, or at least some
S2: of them, to show their contempt if there's a bright
S2: spot in all this. It's the creative offer by the
S2: former CEO of SodaStream to give $100,000 to anyone who
S2: helps free Israeli hostages. The deadline was midnight this past
S2: Wednesday and sadly, no hostages have yet been released. But
S2: he's still hopeful. And I am as well.
S1: You're listening to The Land and the book with our host,
S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer. We're going through a set of top
S1: headlines from the Middle East. I'm John Gager, and thank
S1: you for being a part of the broadcast. Well, Charlie,
S1: cue the theme from Raiders of the Lost Ark as
S1: we ride with Indiana Jones into the ancient city of Petra. Okay,
S1: maybe not, but archaeologists in Petra recently discovered a hidden
S1: tomb underneath the treasury. Now, I read some about this,
S1: but what do we know so far about this discovery?
S2: Yeah. For those who've never been to Petra, the Treasury
S2: is the building at the end of the narrow seek
S2: leading into the city. It's actually the facade of a
S2: tomb that was carved into the cliff face. Most know
S2: it from the Indiana Jones movie. That third Raiders of
S2: the Lost Ark film. And anyone who's seen the movie, well,
S2: you need to know. After Indiana Jones walks inside, everything
S2: you see is pure Hollywood. Jordan hasn't allowed people inside
S2: there since 1997, but I've been in it before then.
S2: It really is just a large empty room with a
S2: few doorways leading into other empty rooms. That is, until now.
S2: These archaeologists unearthed a previously hidden tomb underneath the building
S2: earlier in the year. They used ground penetrating radar and
S2: discovered what they suspected was a tomb underneath the entrance.
S2: And then in August, they finally received permission to excavate.
S2: And they didn't find a hidden stash of silver or
S2: gold or the remains of the knights guarding the Holy Grail.
S2: But they did find the remains of 12 individuals, along
S2: with miscellaneous grave goods and other typical artifacts that they
S2: thought they found. One skeleton holding a ceramic cup that
S2: actually looked like one in the movie, but it turned
S2: out to be part of a juglet. They filmed the excavation,
S2: which aired as part of the Discovery Channel's Expedition Unknown
S2: television series, and actually aired on October 9th. Now, if
S2: you want to see that program, you can check online
S2: to see how you can access that episode in your area.
S1: Well, everybody knows olive oil is definitely healthy, but the
S1: solid waste left behind is not until now. Fen Olive,
S1: an Israeli startup, has developed an innovative process to turn
S1: the waste from processing olives into gluten free flour. Tell
S1: us about this latest innovation from Amazing Israel.
S2: Yeah, this I did find fascinating as well. After olives
S2: are crushed and squeezed for the oil. About 85% of
S2: the olive remains behind is pulp, which until now has
S2: been useless. It's toxic, acidic and smelly. Within 15 minutes
S2: of being squeezed, the waste matter starts to oxidize, leaving
S2: what's left unfit for human or animal consumption. And that's
S2: where Fen Olive sensed an opportunity to profit by doing good.
S2: After several years of research, they developed and patented a
S2: process to transform olive oil waste into olive flour. The
S2: flour is tasty, gluten free and high fiber, and can
S2: be used as a replacement for any flour in cooking
S2: or baking. Their process divides the waste into three components
S2: the pulp, which is transformed into the flour, the black
S2: water or waste water from pressing, and the olive seeds
S2: which can then be used for fuel. The process doesn't
S2: use chemicals or additives, and after separation the pulp is
S2: dried and ground into flour. The company is now in
S2: discussion with major olive millers in Israel and Europe on
S2: how to add the process into existing press operations. Turning
S2: olive processing waste into high quality, nutritious, low carb and
S2: low calorie flour to aid olive growers, processors and customers alike.
S2: That definitely sounds like something we would expect from Amazing Israel.
S1: Thank you Charlie. A few weeks back, you sent an
S1: email saying, John, you better get Ahold of Tom Doyle.
S1: He's got reports coming out of Gaza that our listeners
S1: need to hear, and I'm grateful for that tip. And boy,
S1: the conversation we're about to have with Tom will bring
S1: you stories from believers inside Gaza, their testimonies, their stand
S1: for Jesus as something that will encourage you. So I
S1: hope you'll stick around, and I hope you'll share us
S1: with a friend, by the way. Our website is The
S1: land and the book. Org. Tom Doyle next on the
S1: land and the book. When Hamas slaughtered more than 1100
S1: Israelis on October the 7th, our hearts were shattered. But
S1: in the year that has followed the pain, the destruction
S1: and the loss of life on both sides of the
S1: border has been horrific. There's an untold story in all
S1: of this. The impact of the war on believers in
S1: Gaza will take you there. Coming up first, though, let's
S1: pause for a creative idea on reaching out to our
S1: Muslim friends and neighbors with the gospel of Christ right
S1: here at home. One of the things you will encounter immediately,
S1: every time you talk with a muslim, is the issue
S1: that Jesus in their world, is definitely not the Son
S1: of God. So how can we possibly hope to have
S1: a conversation that doesn't get confrontational, but yet somehow conveys
S1: Jesus is the Son of God. Let's ask Stefano Fare,
S1: who's with call of Hope. How do we do this?
S3: Well, you know, John, I'm so often asked, how do
S3: I persuade the Muslim that Jesus is the Son of God?
S3: And I usually answer and say, we don't. We don't
S3: persuade them. We cannot. And I think that's the most
S3: important to learn. The only person who can persuade them
S3: is God himself. We can talk about it. Batteries. Give
S3: them a gospel. Gospel of John or a Gospel of Luke.
S3: Let them read and then just let the Lord do
S3: the work. We cannot persuade. We can just testify what
S3: we believe. But the Lord will do it. You know,
S3: I asked a friend of mine who was a muslim.
S3: I said, do you believe that Jesus is the Son
S3: of God? Yes. How did this come? He says, I
S3: don't know. It was there. The Lord gave it to me.
S3: I was able to accept it right away.
S1: Only the Lord can convince their hearts. So let's not
S1: try and wrench it in and somehow argue them into heaven.
S1: Stefano Ferrer is with call of Hope. Thanks for that
S1: very practical advice. Few Christians today have spent as much
S1: time meeting, loving and serving the people of Gaza as
S1: Tom Doyle. Tom fell in love with the Middle East
S1: on his first Bible Tour of the Holy Land in 1995.
S1: He became an official tour guide for the State of
S1: Israel and developed a passion for ministering to the Israeli people,
S1: Arabs and Jews alike. Tom and his wife Joanne felt
S1: a call from God to full time ministry there in 2001.
S1: In 2017, the Doyles launched Uncharted Ministries, which seeks to
S1: inspire the body of Christ to rise up and join
S1: the the New Great Awakening among Jews and Muslims in
S1: the Middle East and in uncharted territories around the world. Well,
S1: Tom and Joanne, interestingly, began working in the heart of
S1: the Islamic world shortly after the terrorist attacks of September 11th.
S1: And they serve in places like Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Jordan,
S1: Syria and Palestinian territories of Israel. It's great to welcome
S1: you back to the land and the book, Tom.
S4: Oh, it's so good to be with you, John. Thank you. Well, before.
S1: We move into the war, introduce us to some of
S1: your most beloved brothers and sisters in Gaza. You've been
S1: there many times. Who would you like us to get
S1: to know?
S4: Yeah, well, you know, we've worked with a church in Gaza,
S4: the Gaza Baptist Church, that's an above ground church. And
S4: awesome what they've been able to withstand in the midst
S4: of the wars and continual Hamas control. But our heart
S4: really goes out to the secret church, the believers that
S4: have come out of Islam, that have stayed in Gaza,
S4: that are one by one, reaching other Muslims with the
S4: gospel of Jesus. And you talk about a receptive crowd.
S4: Even during this war, one of our friends, Muhammad, tells
S4: us that 20 to 30 people have come to faith
S4: in Christ. Just hearing the scriptures, just listening to the
S4: claims of Jesus, and just kind of comparing that to
S4: what they're seeing with Hamas and the hatred that that group,
S4: terrorist group has of their own people. And so on
S4: October 7th, John, as everybody was horrified and I always
S4: say this, it seemed like Israel got about two hours
S4: of sympathy and then the world just turned on them. Muhammad,
S4: a muslim background believer who is like an apostle Paul
S4: in Gaza, was texting and saying, we're being forced by
S4: Hamas to watch the parade of all the people that
S4: Hamas took. And he said, the people are cheering. And
S4: he said, But I'm standing here crying because no human
S4: being should be treated that way. So it's horrible. We're
S4: praying for them, and we're also praying for the believers
S4: in Gaza as they seek to spread the message. But
S4: think about this, John. At one point, there was a
S4: chance for these Muslim background families to get out and leave,
S4: and you could pay a fee for them to leave
S4: and go to Egypt and be out of the war,
S4: because there's continual bombings every day, and they're living in
S4: tents and all of that. And we were able to
S4: get some funds to them for them to leave. We
S4: didn't hear from them for a few days. And then
S4: finally they got Ahold of us and they said, we
S4: can't leave. We can't leave our people. God's called us
S4: to stay here, no matter how difficult it is. We
S4: may die, but we need to tell them about Jesus.
S4: We're staying. And if you've watched some of the news,
S4: and I'm sure you have the people that are listening,
S4: you know how immensely scary it would be for children
S4: to be near the bombs. The Gaza Strip is not
S4: a big area and they can't completely get away from it.
S4: So the light of the world still shining in Gaza,
S4: not leaving, not running away, sharing the message of Jesus.
S4: And we're just privileged to know incredible believers like that.
S1: This is the land and the book. I'm John Gager.
S1: Our guest, Tom Doyle, who along with his wife Joanne,
S1: began working in the heart of the Islamic world shortly
S1: after the terrorist attacks of September 11th. Let me ask you,
S1: is it even possible for you guys to minister to
S1: Gazan believers from a distance? And if so, what does
S1: that look like right now?
S4: Yeah, there's actually ways to communicate on the internet. We
S4: have to be careful. You cannot be too specific because
S4: there's no separation. It's not like the bad guys live
S4: over here and the good guys live here, right? They're
S4: in a refugee camp. And the refugee camp that they're
S4: in is the one that actually started the war with Israel.
S4: And so there's known terrorists there. And so they have
S4: to be careful with what they say and how they communicate.
S4: But just to see the faithfulness in the midst of
S4: living like that is so inspiring to us. And you know, John,
S4: for what you see on the news, these are people
S4: that have been redeemed. They've come out of the false
S4: religion of Islam, and they don't hate Israel. They wish
S4: they could live in Israel, and they wish that Hamas
S4: would be removed so they don't have to live under
S4: their tyranny. So, um, we are truly blessed to be
S4: able to even communicate with them. And then there's Muhammad,
S4: who is like the apostle Paul in Gaza that just
S4: sends these incredibly beautiful prayers to us and asking how
S4: we're doing. I mean, the last video we saw, they
S4: have 29 people living in one tent and the rain
S4: is coming through, and he's asking about how I'm doing.
S4: I had a recent health situation develop where I have
S4: cancer and I'm going through treatments at MD Anderson, and
S4: it's aggressive and we're asking people to pray. And there's
S4: Muhammad not even talking about his situation, saying, how are
S4: you doing, dear Tom? Praying. That's the faith of the
S4: believers that inspire us to live for Jesus. As we
S4: see horrible things happening in our country that we're not
S4: able to change. But you know what? We can live
S4: for Christ and be salt and light in the midst
S4: of it, just like they are in Gaza. Mm.
S1: Well, Tom, since you're seeing so many doctors, I'm going
S1: to ask you to play a doctor right now. All right,
S1: here's the question, doctor. Tom, what is wrong with our hearts?
S1: Too many of us paint the entire Palestinian population with
S1: one brush. These guys hate God's chosen people. They started
S1: a horrible war. How can we have compassion on them?
S1: But that's neither fair nor kind. Help us with our
S1: heart trouble. Tom.
S4: Yeah. I just think it's easy to take a snapshot
S4: of a people group and then just color them all
S4: the same way, and, I mean, it goes back, John,
S4: to the very first time I went into the Gaza
S4: Strip in 2001, got out of a taxi cab and
S4: was in Gaza City. So this is like maybe two
S4: months after nine over 11, and a muslim woman makes
S4: a beeline for me and comes up and actually grabs
S4: my forearm. I was shocked because they don't do that,
S4: you know, Muslim woman touching a man. She grabs my forearm.
S4: I said yes, and she said, you're from America, aren't you?
S4: And I said, yes, I am. And she said, well,
S4: I could tell by the color of your eyes. So. Oh, okay.
S4: And she said, did you see on September 11th, when
S4: the buildings fell in America and they showed people in
S4: Gaza cheering and giving candy and celebrating. And did you
S4: see that? And I said, well, yes, I did. And
S4: she said, well, not me. I was crying for those
S4: people because they didn't deserve to die. And I'm so
S4: sorry that happened. Please forgive us. And she tapped her
S4: chest to motion. She's tapping her heart and she turned
S4: on her heel and walked away. And you know what
S4: thought went through my mind, John? I thought this. There's
S4: human beings in Gaza. Yeah, they're not all in terrorist groups.
S4: I mean, they don't all think that way. And of course,
S4: the believers don't either. There are some people that that
S4: have a heart. And of course, Hamas is just swept
S4: over Palestinians who honor them more now in Gaza because
S4: of what they've done. But that doesn't mean there's everyone
S4: and of course, the remnant of the church. They think
S4: completely the opposite in Gaza.
S1: What is it that holds the people of Gaza back
S1: from turning to Christ? What are the biggest hurdles spiritually,
S1: when you minister there? What are you observing?
S4: If there is no fear of retribution, I wonder if
S4: anybody would be a muslim there except Hamas, because they're
S4: so thoroughly fed up with what the terrorist groups have
S4: done and how they've controlled them. Gaza sits on a beach.
S4: It's just miles from Ashdod and Ashkelon. This could be
S4: an incredible place for people to go and vacation. Yes.
S4: If it wasn't an enclave for terrorism. And the people
S4: are so sick about how they have been destroyed. But
S4: they are kept in fear. And because the Quran tells
S4: Muslims that they must fight against Christians and Jews because
S4: they rejected Muhammad. This has become holy to them, this war.
S4: This is this is becoming holy by keeping this war
S4: going on. It's an act of sacrifice for them to
S4: please Allah. And there are so many Muslims that are
S4: not buying it and saying, we want out. We don't
S4: want this. We don't want the sole objective of the
S4: Palestinian people to be wipe out Israel. And that's it.
S4: And so it's all out of fear. John, we have
S4: I found the truth.com. And when we first started playing
S4: videos of former Muslims that we film coming to faith
S4: in Christ. We were seeing about 4000 people a month
S4: watch them and we thought, okay, Lord, that's great. We
S4: wish there were more, right? We kept praying, kept working
S4: on things. Now, since October 7th, it's between 1 and
S4: 2 million a month. Wow. And the questions we're getting,
S4: the people that are saying, tell me more about Jesus.
S4: What do I do? I live here, it's dangerous. Can
S4: we communicate privately? There are so many that are thoroughly
S4: fed up with Islam. We're never going to see them
S4: on the news, but we just have to believe in faith.
S4: God's going to move in their hearts and bring them
S4: to faith in Christ.
S1: Tom Doyle is our guest today on the land and
S1: the book. He's the founder of Uncharted Ministries. How about
S1: if we pause right now and we just give you
S1: some space to pray an unhurried prayer for the situation
S1: in Gaza?
S4: Lord Jesus, we know that only you can transform a
S4: person's heart. Only you can transform an entire people group.
S4: And we believe, Lord, it's going to start with the
S4: next generation. So we pray, Lord, for a great awakening
S4: in Gaza of people turning to faith in Christ, leaving Islam.
S4: And we pray, father, for this next generation, that they
S4: would get thoroughly acquainted by ministries that come alongside each
S4: other and work in the Gaza Strip so they can
S4: know who Jesus is. And Jesus called people to love
S4: one another, and they are growing up on a steady
S4: diet of hatred and a goal of wiping out a
S4: people group. Turn their hearts. Father, we pray that believers
S4: would flood the Gaza Strip with the love of Jesus,
S4: and this next generation of children would grow up not
S4: dressing up as suicide bombers when they're two and three
S4: years old, but dressing up as Bible characters, as people
S4: that have made a difference for Christ, who have seen
S4: amazing miracles, who have touched their whole people group, who
S4: have gone as missionaries to some of the worst places
S4: in the world. It starts with the children. God, would
S4: you do a holy awakening among them so this next
S4: generation can follow Jesus and not follow terrorism? And we pray, Lord,
S4: that this place would be a place that the world
S4: could look at and there would be no discussion needed.
S4: Jesus transformed this place. Jesus invaded the Gaza Strip and
S4: turned it from a place that we associate with hate
S4: to a place that we associate with love. So, father,
S4: we just pray for your spirit to move and for
S4: thousands to come to faith in Christ in this next generation,
S4: to be the ones that lead the way and turn
S4: Gaza into a place of not cursing, but blessing. And
S4: we pray this in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen.
S1: Amen. And let's continue to pray for Gaza throughout the
S1: days and weeks ahead. Thank you, Tom Doyle. Always a
S1: great visit. You bring the best stories and thanks for
S1: that prayer as well. Amen.
S4: Thank you John, my privilege. Thank you.
S1: And we'll continue to pray for you in your own
S1: health journey there and that whole challenge. And right now
S1: we want to welcome you to our next segment. It's
S1: Charlie Dyer back in the studio with Bible questions and
S1: answers here. Next on the land and the book. Of John.
S1: Hope your day is going well, and I hope the
S1: land in the book is encouraging you along your journey.
S1: I'm John Geiger with our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, and again,
S1: we just appreciate your taking the time to spend with
S1: us here at The Land and the book. Well, Charlie
S1: Israel has been in the news so much this last
S1: year and the Bible is jam packed, of course, with
S1: end times prophecies, epic world events, the regathering of the
S1: Jewish people to their ancient homeland and ultimately Jesus return.
S1: It seems to me it's crucial for us as believers
S1: to have a proper understanding of Bible prophecy. So our
S1: view of the future is shaped by Scripture and not
S1: just today's headlines. Right?
S2: Yeah, it's definitely true. And with that in mind, our
S2: friends at Life and Messiah have published a book titled God,
S2: Israel and Bible Prophecy and are offering it to listeners
S2: of the land in the book for a limited time.
S2: This informative book is focused on providing readers with a
S2: deeper understanding and greater appreciation of what God has in
S2: store for Israel and the nations by digging into what
S2: the scriptures say about these issues. Now, if you're interested
S2: in learning more about what God has in store, visit
S2: Life in Messiah. Org and click on the Moody Radio
S2: button there to find out how you can receive your
S2: copy of God, Israel and Bible Prophecy. That's life in messiah.org.
S1: Never a shortage of questions as people open their Bibles,
S1: open their minds, read and ponder and we're always open
S1: to your questions. By the way, you can send yours
S1: to Charlie at the land and the book@moody.edu. Let's dig in.
S1: Here's Marilyn's question. Can you help me understand the difference
S1: between the angel's response to Zechariah's apparent doubt in Luke
S1: one versus the angel's response to Mary's question in the
S1: same chapter? Why wasn't she judged for her apparent doubt?
S2: I think the key is to look carefully at the
S2: objections raised by both Zechariah and Mary. When Zechariah responded
S2: to the angel's promise by saying, literally, how can I
S2: know this? Most translations add something like how can I
S2: know this for sure? Or how can I be certain
S2: to give the full sense of the question? His objection
S2: was that both he and his wife were old. He
S2: obviously understood the mechanics of how a wife could get pregnant,
S2: but he felt the promise couldn't be fulfilled because of
S2: their age and past inability to conceive. So he was
S2: doubting God's ability to do something that really God had
S2: shown to be possible in the past. As a priest,
S2: he should have remembered the stories about Samson's mother, Samuel's mother,
S2: and the child born to the Shunammite woman in the
S2: days of Elisha in two Kings four. Now, in contrast
S2: to the announcement made to Zachariah, the announcement to Mary
S2: was unprecedented. When the angel told her she was going
S2: to conceive in her womb and bear a son. Her
S2: her objection was really based on biological reality. How can
S2: this be since I'm a virgin? Up till this point
S2: in history, no child had ever been born apart from
S2: a man and a woman having sexual relations. So I
S2: don't see Mary doubting God's promise as much as expressing
S2: a lack of understanding about the process itself. Once the
S2: angel explained how it would take place, Mary immediately displayed
S2: a humble spirit of submission and faith. I'm the Lord's servant,
S2: she said. May it be to me as you have
S2: said so I see a real difference in their responses.
S2: Zechariah doubted God's ability to do something for him and
S2: his wife that God had already clearly done in the past.
S2: Mary only wondered how a woman could get pregnant apart
S2: from having sexual relations, something that was really a physical
S2: impossibility up till then, and her attitude following the explanation
S2: showed her immediate acceptance and submission to what God said,
S2: even when it seemed physically impossible.
S1: Bill takes us to the upcoming elections, saying, I've encountered
S1: three major reasons that people use for not voting at
S1: all for either party. One, in the end, is that
S1: you are voting for a person and both persons are evil. Second,
S1: voting for the lesser evil is still evil, and we
S1: should not vote for evil to support what's right. And third,
S1: this is a new one to me. He says Christians
S1: should not vote because God, Christ is King and we
S1: are rejecting God as king by voting for a human government.
S1: This is based, they say, in first Samuel eight. What
S1: do you say?
S2: Well, I think his response to the individuals demonstrates great wisdom.
S2: But the key difference between Bible times and today is
S2: that in both the Old and New Testament, people really
S2: didn't have a say in who was in charge. They
S2: didn't vote for a king or for the Roman emperor,
S2: but they could rest in the knowledge that God set
S2: up and took down kings, and their responsibility was to
S2: obey those in authority. So when Paul wrote Romans 13 one,
S2: you obey those in authority. Nero was the emperor. However,
S2: since God put us under the authority of a government
S2: that allows us to have a say in who can lead,
S2: I believe participating in the election process is part of
S2: placing ourselves in obedience to the authority over us. Christ
S2: was King of kings at the time of Nero. Yet
S2: Paul still said in Romans 13, be subject to the
S2: governing authorities. The authorities that existed had been established by God.
S2: To deliberately choose not to participate by voting, in one sense,
S2: is rebelling against the system of government to which were
S2: to be in obedience. Rulers, both in Bible times and today.
S2: They're not always believers. They they weren't then. They aren't today.
S2: In many cases. And yet we're to pray for them.
S2: First Timothy two. We're to submit to them as long
S2: as they don't demand that we disobey God. In acts
S2: chapter four, it says that in the system of government
S2: God has provided for us. I believe one way to
S2: obey God is to vote for the person or party
S2: most aligned with his values. No system is perfect, but
S2: choosing not to vote is simply being unwilling to take
S2: time to carefully and prayerfully seek God's will in the matter.
S2: The bottom line is that I believe you're right on target.
S2: We do have the freedom in our country to choose
S2: not to vote, but those who choose to do so
S2: also need to understand they're choosing to accept the results
S2: of that choice. Personally, I never tell someone whom they
S2: need to vote for, but I do encourage them to
S2: know what the issues are that are at stake in
S2: any election, and then to seek God's wisdom to do
S2: what's best.
S1: Norm says, I thought one of your recent guests answers
S1: was inaccurate. He suggested a prophetic sign Is Israel coming
S1: back to the land in 1948? But this was a
S1: political result of Zionism. The Bible says that the Messiah
S1: is to regather Israel. Can you clarify, please?
S2: Yeah, actually, I think both positions are correct. Now let
S2: me explain. It's true that at his return, Jesus will
S2: gather the nation and bring them back to the land.
S2: And that's mentioned in passages like Jeremiah chapter 30. Jeremiah
S2: chapter 31. Ezekiel 36 mentions it. Jesus himself said it
S2: in Matthew 24, verses 30 and 31. But it's also
S2: true that Israel are certainly a part of the nation
S2: has to be in the land before the start of
S2: the seven year tribulation period. They need to be there
S2: so the Antichrist can confirm a covenant with them for
S2: seven years. And so the temple can be rebuilt and
S2: then defiled. That's mentioned in Daniel 927 and in second
S2: Thessalonians two, and in revelation 11. In Matthew 24, Jesus
S2: describes that defilement of the temple and says, let those
S2: who are in Judea then flee. Will they have to
S2: be in Judea if they're going to flee from that point?
S2: I think the best passage that helps me know all
S2: these things together is Ezekiel 38 and 39, that invasion
S2: of Gog and Magog in 38. It says the invasion
S2: takes place following the return of the nation to the land.
S2: He says in future years, God will invade a land
S2: that's recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many
S2: nations to the mountains of Israel. But at the end
S2: of the passage, once the war has happened, once God
S2: has defeated the enemy, God says a key result of
S2: the battle is the return of Israel to the land.
S2: So in chapter 39 he says, therefore, this is what
S2: the sovereign Lord says, I will now bring Jacob back
S2: from captivity and have compassion on all the people of Israel.
S2: So they're there before the battle. But one of the
S2: results of the battle is that God brings them back,
S2: which tells me that there has to be a remnant
S2: in Israel prior to the start of the fulfillment of
S2: those end time prophecies.
S1: You're listening to the land and the book with our host,
S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer, and your questions are welcome at the
S1: land and the book@moody.edu. Dale asks, is it possible that
S1: the events described in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are the
S1: same as the battle of Armageddon?
S2: Yeah. Isn't it interesting, John, that suddenly our questions just
S2: tend to come in on the same subject and we
S2: present them in the order they come in, but in
S2: this case, two different people, but two different questions on
S2: that passage. Well, I don't see the Battle of Gog
S2: Magog and the Battle of Armageddon being the same event, uh,
S2: the Battle of Magog in Ezekiel 38 and 39 is
S2: said to occur when Israel's in the land in peace
S2: and safety. In fact, he says, in the very beginning,
S2: he will invade a land that's recovered from war, whose
S2: people were gathered from many nations. And now all of
S2: them live in safety. And the man says, I'm going
S2: to attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people. Well, that's true
S2: for Israel during the first half of the coming tribulation period,
S2: but not for the second half. And that's important, because
S2: the gathering at Armageddon prior to the battle of the
S2: seven year period is in revelation 16. It's one of
S2: the last bowls of judgment right toward the end of
S2: the tribulation period. The difference in timing tells me that
S2: the battles take place at different times. So the battle
S2: of Gog Magog happens when Israel is back in the
S2: land at peace. The gathering at Armageddon takes place at
S2: the end of the tribulation, just before Christ's return, which
S2: is a time when Israel has been experiencing incredible difficulty
S2: and troubles, according to what Jesus said in Matthew 24.
S2: I personally think the battle of Armageddon is really a
S2: gathering at Armageddon, or a campaign at Armageddon rather than
S2: the final battle, because the battle doesn't actually take place
S2: until right at the time of Christ's return.
S1: Ghani has a question for us. In my personal study
S1: of the life of Paul, I came across what seems
S1: to be a contradiction in the Bible concerning the time
S1: of his conversion on the way to Damascus. Can you
S1: help me out here? Acts nine verse seven says that
S1: those who were with Paul heard a voice but saw
S1: no one. But in chapter 22, verse nine, it says,
S1: they saw the light, but they did not hear the
S1: voice of him who spoke with Paul. What's going on?
S2: Yeah, I actually remember this coming up during my second
S2: year in Greek in Bible College, which takes me back
S2: a long time. Uh, while in English those verses do
S2: appear to contradict, in Greek they don't. The Greek word
S2: for hearing in both is acuo, which can have a
S2: range of meaning when it's followed by a word in
S2: the accusative case, which is what it is in chapter nine.
S2: It refers to the extent of hearing that is. In
S2: this verse Paul says they actually heard something being spoken,
S2: but when it was followed by a word in the
S2: genitive case, as in chapter 22, it's referring to the
S2: meaning of the sound. That is, those who are traveling
S2: with Paul didn't understand what was being said, even though
S2: they did hear something. So both statements are correct in
S2: the way a quote uses each one within its context.
S2: And I think the NIV, the New American Standard, and
S2: the ESV all try to convey that sense in their translations.
S1: I have loved these questions today, especially those that point
S1: us toward the future. And your question is welcome again
S1: at the land and the book@moody.edu. Hey, when was the
S1: last time you visited our website? Lots of cool stuff
S1: there and you'll find us at The Land and the book.org.
S1: I'm looking forward to Charlie Dyer's devotional. It's next. When
S1: you're in a desert. Water is liquid gold. Nothing is
S1: more important or precious than water. Charlie, you have spent
S1: enough time in Israel's deserts to know firsthand the importance
S1: of water, I presume?
S2: Absolutely. And I've seen people who didn't have enough water
S2: and got into trouble as a result.
S1: And yet, water in the desert is the focus of
S1: your devotional coming up, right?
S2: Absolutely.
S1: All right. We're looking forward to that conversation. His devotional
S1: following this Holy Land experience. Let's check out this testimony.
S5: Hi, my name is Judy and this is my Holy
S5: Land experience. One of the things that has impressed me
S5: as we tour around Israel is the many people groups
S5: who are here. Some of them are visiting from other countries.
S5: Some of them are indigenous to this area. But I
S5: see that many tribes and many tongues, and it's happening
S5: right here, right in front of our very eyes, and
S5: I can imagine it happening in the New Jerusalem.
S6: Hi, my name is Mary and this is my Holy
S6: Land experience, a trip that I've looked forward to for
S6: a long time, and now it is a reality. And
S6: what I am experiencing is the Bible coming alive in
S6: front of my eyes, seeing all of those things that
S6: we read about in the Bible and hearing about them
S6: and Charlie telling us about them. And the history has
S6: just been completely amazing.
S1: Water in the desert. Where are we going today, Charlie?
S2: Well, we're going to head to job chapter 38 and
S2: Isaiah 35, and I'm going to try and put those
S2: two passages together. But right now, as our bus pulls
S2: into the parking lot here at Qumran, I first want
S2: to give you a chance to use the restrooms. We'll
S2: then meet over by the entrance and walk out onto
S2: the site. And be sure to bring your headset along
S2: because the site could be crowded. Okay, we've all done
S2: so follow me out onto the site. Now I'm going
S2: to take you on an abbreviated tour of Qumran. We're
S2: skipping most of the ruins and heading out to the
S2: covered area there in the distance. What makes Qumran special
S2: are the ancient scrolls discovered here, the Dead Sea Scrolls.
S2: But those scrolls aren't here now. They're in Jerusalem. And
S2: had they not been discovered here, this site would never
S2: have become a national park. The site itself is actually
S2: something of a disappointment, though the discovery made here is
S2: one of the most significant in the past 100 years. Okay,
S2: we're now out at the overlook. Just across the way
S2: is the most iconic photo you will see from Qumran
S2: Cave four. The different caves in this area are numbered
S2: based on the order in which the scrolls were discovered.
S2: This cave contained the largest number of scrolls and fragments found.
S2: In fact, over 75% of the Dead Sea Scrolls and
S2: scroll fragments collected so far were found in this one cave. Now,
S2: on most trips, I'll share briefly about the history of
S2: Qumran and the Essenes, and then turn everyone loose, and
S2: some of you can explore the rest of the site,
S2: while others can shop in the store, and others can
S2: go to the snack area and purchase a soda or
S2: ice cream. But before we scatter, let me point out
S2: one other detail. Qumran has no natural water supply like
S2: a stream or a well. It existed because of the
S2: rainfall that fell up in the mountains and rushed down
S2: the cliffs just in front of you. If you look
S2: carefully at the cliffs, you can trace a line down
S2: where the rocks change color. If there's a heavy rain
S2: up in the hills, the water rushes into the canyons
S2: in the wilderness and eventually becomes a roaring waterfall, cascading
S2: down the face of the cliff and through the gorge
S2: just below. On the way to the Dead Sea. The
S2: Essenes who lived here diverted some of that water into
S2: Qumran to fill their cisterns and reservoirs, and that's where
S2: they received the water that sustained them through the rest
S2: of the year. Now, standing here right now, it's hard
S2: to imagine that a community, even a relatively small community,
S2: could survive from such infrequent floods. But a number of
S2: years ago, I was here when just such a flood
S2: took place. In fact, the water washed across the road
S2: below and trapped us here for two hours, but I
S2: didn't mind at all. The water pouring over the side
S2: and down the cliff face was absolutely majestic. It was
S2: dark brown from all the dirt being carried along by
S2: the force of the current. That was one of my
S2: aha moments in Israel, because it shined a spotlight on
S2: several passages from the Bible. And while we're here, let
S2: me share some of those with you. The first comes
S2: from the Book of Job. Job and his friends engaged
S2: in a protracted debate over the cause for job's misfortune.
S2: In job six, job said his friends were as undependable
S2: as the desert wadis that overflow with water in the winter,
S2: but that ceased to flow in the dry season and
S2: in the heat vanish from their channels. They were around
S2: when things were going well, but when things got tough,
S2: their help vanished, like the water in those wadis that
S2: stopped flowing in the summer. The cycle of debate between
S2: job and his friends ends when God himself shows up
S2: to question job, and God asked a series of questions
S2: to demonstrate the job. That job also didn't understand how
S2: life really works. God asked, who cuts a channel for
S2: the torrents of rain and a path for the thunderstorm
S2: to water? A land where no man lives, a desert
S2: with no one in it, to satisfy a desolate wasteland
S2: and make it sprout with grass. Why did God design
S2: a system that sends torrents of rain down channels in
S2: deserted regions? God provides water to cause grass to sprout
S2: in areas where even humans don't live. And God asked
S2: job to explain why he designed it that way, which
S2: of course, job wasn't able to do. More than a
S2: thousand years after the time of job, the prophet Isaiah
S2: used the same imagery of streams in the desert to
S2: picture God's coming, deliverance, redemption, and blessing for his people.
S2: Here's part of how he describes it in Isaiah 35.
S2: The desert and the parched land will be glad. The
S2: wilderness will rejoice and blossom like the crocus. It will
S2: burst into bloom. It will rejoice greatly and shout for joy. Then,
S2: picking up in verses six and seven, he adds, water
S2: will gush forth in the wilderness and streams in the desert.
S2: The scorched land will become a pool. The thirsty ground,
S2: bubbling springs in the haunts where jackals once lay. Grass
S2: and reeds and papyrus will grow. God's promised deliverance will
S2: be as dramatic as a roaring wall of water sweeping
S2: through the wilderness, turning the dead barren ground into a
S2: carpet of green. Watching the normally barren cliffs above Qumran
S2: turn almost instantly into a roaring waterfall was impressive. Not actually.
S2: It was awe inspiring. If you want to see what
S2: I mean, go to our land in the Book Facebook
S2: page and watch the short video I'll post there, which
S2: I took on that day. In other trips, I saw
S2: the impact those storms had on the wilderness itself. I
S2: have photos of red, yellow and white flowers dotting hillsides
S2: carpeted in fresh green grass. I watched shepherds lead their
S2: flocks and herds to graze on hillsides that, just a
S2: few weeks before, seemed to be covered in nothing but rock.
S2: God's presence shone in his ability to bring rain to
S2: even the most barren of locations in Israel's wilderness was
S2: a visible object lesson to the people of the land
S2: from the time of job and throughout the Old Testament.
S2: The God who could bring about streams in the desert
S2: was the God who also promised to strengthen the feeble hands,
S2: steady the knees that give way, and say to those
S2: with fearful hearts, be strong, and do not fear. Isaiah's
S2: message of hope from the streams in the desert was
S2: that God will come to save you. Well, it's time
S2: to head back into the store to grab a snack.
S2: You can also shop, but be sure to use the
S2: restrooms one last time before we head south for our
S2: long drive to the hotel. Before we leave though, what
S2: lessons can you take with you from your time here?
S2: Looking at the barren cliffs above Qumran. Let me suggest two. First,
S2: remember from job that we don't always understand God's ways.
S2: Job felt abandoned by his friends and by his God.
S2: He had no clue about the cosmic battle between God
S2: and Satan taking place over his life. He felt forsaken
S2: by God. Though God told Satan, job was the prime
S2: example of a person who was blameless and upright. God
S2: had to remind job that job didn't understand how everything
S2: in the world fit together, but that God did. Those
S2: cliffs above us are reminders that we might face obstacles
S2: that seem powerful and daunting. But we have a God
S2: who's infinitely greater and who loves us with a love
S2: that will keep us through the desert times in our lives.
S2: He understands even when we don't. And then second, remember
S2: from Isaiah that in the proper time God will send
S2: his streams in the desert. He can replace barrenness with
S2: blessing and discouragement with deliverance. You might not see it
S2: right now, but I can assure you that there are
S2: times when a section of that cliff will be obscured
S2: by a cascading river of water. The timing belongs to God,
S2: but he will come, just as he said in Isaiah
S2: 35 verse four. Whatever your current struggles, whatever spiritual drought
S2: you might be experiencing, keep looking up, be strong, do
S2: not fear, and then watch for God to bring his
S2: time of spiritual refreshing just for you.
S1: Well, I love that reminder that hope is there. Thank
S1: you Charlie. Great devotional as always, and the entire program
S1: is yours to listen to at our website, The Land
S1: and the book org. Head to our Facebook page to
S1: check out that waterfall video Charlie's talking about as well.
S1: That'll do it for our program today. I'm John Gager
S1: for our producer, Dan Anderson. Our host, Charlie Dyer. Have
S1: a great day. Thanks for listening to The Land and
S1: the book, a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of
S1: Moody Bible Institute.