1 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:08,319 S1: How do you help your children become captivated with the 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,799 S1: truth of the Bible? How do you turn on their 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,040 S1: imagination and allow them to dive into Scripture so they're 4 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,720 S1: not just reading a dusty document from antiquity or something 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,480 S1: for old people who like that kind of stuff. Today 6 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,759 S1: at the Radio Backyard Fence, meet Patrick. He is the 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,160 S1: answer Jack and Liz came up with. He's a ten 8 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,000 S1: year old boy who gets yanked into his Bible to 9 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:35,199 S1: experience adventures firsthand. And with a name like Wigglesworth, you 10 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,800 S1: know it's got to be good. Question on our Facebook 11 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,800 S1: page today is what creative way have you encouraged your 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,599 S1: kids to dig into the Bible? There's some interesting responses there. 13 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,000 S1: I'd love to hear from you today as we talk 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,040 S1: with Jack and Liz about their answer to that question. 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:55,240 S1: What they've done might help you energize your children's imagination 16 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,560 S1: and draw them into exploring the Bible themselves. Let's get 17 00:00:59,630 --> 00:01:01,510 S1: started with the program. From the heart to the heart 18 00:01:01,510 --> 00:01:05,470 S1: for the heart online at Chris Fabry live.org. Here's our team. 19 00:01:05,470 --> 00:01:08,630 S1: Ryan's doing all things technical. He navigated that big storm 20 00:01:08,630 --> 00:01:12,910 S1: yesterday in Northern Indiana. Glad you're back, Brian. Trish is 21 00:01:12,910 --> 00:01:17,630 S1: out today. Our producer in her stead is Lisa. Lisa, 22 00:01:17,630 --> 00:01:20,429 S1: thank you for your work. Josh will be answering your calls. 23 00:01:20,870 --> 00:01:22,789 S1: The other members of the team are our friends and 24 00:01:22,790 --> 00:01:26,510 S1: partners who support this program with a gift, either monthly 25 00:01:26,510 --> 00:01:28,670 S1: or with a one time gift. And I see a 26 00:01:28,670 --> 00:01:31,430 S1: few stars this month. That means people have who've never 27 00:01:31,430 --> 00:01:34,190 S1: given have done that. Thank you for clicking through or 28 00:01:34,190 --> 00:01:37,030 S1: calling us. I choose a thank you each month that 29 00:01:37,030 --> 00:01:40,830 S1: I think will be something helpful, encouraging, inspiring in some 30 00:01:40,830 --> 00:01:44,149 S1: way to you. And this month it's a cookbook. That's right, 31 00:01:44,190 --> 00:01:48,310 S1: doctor Kathy Cook has recipes for better relationships with your 32 00:01:48,310 --> 00:01:52,870 S1: adult kids. Her last name is spelled KOCH, pronounced cook. 33 00:01:52,910 --> 00:01:54,710 S1: That's why I call it a cookbook. It's not a. 34 00:01:54,750 --> 00:01:57,750 S1: It doesn't have real recipes. I have heard from so 35 00:01:57,750 --> 00:02:02,070 S1: many people over the years. Parents heartbroken because there's a 36 00:02:02,070 --> 00:02:05,870 S1: fracture in the relationship with an adult child, or maybe 37 00:02:05,870 --> 00:02:09,109 S1: several adult children. I would love to send this to 38 00:02:09,150 --> 00:02:12,310 S1: you for your own encouragement or for somebody else. If 39 00:02:12,350 --> 00:02:14,910 S1: you give a gift today, we're going to send you 40 00:02:14,910 --> 00:02:19,070 S1: resolve conflict and find peace and hope with adult children. 41 00:02:19,350 --> 00:02:22,070 S1: Or you can pass this along to somebody you know 42 00:02:22,310 --> 00:02:25,310 S1: who's going through that same pain. It's easy. Just go 43 00:02:25,310 --> 00:02:28,390 S1: to Chris Fabry live FABRY. The hardest thing is to 44 00:02:28,430 --> 00:02:34,669 S1: spell my last name right. FABRY. Chris Fabry live dot ORG. 45 00:02:34,710 --> 00:02:39,470 S1: Scroll down. You'll see the book by Doctor Cook 86695. 46 00:02:39,470 --> 00:02:41,470 S1: Fabry is also, if you want to talk with a 47 00:02:41,470 --> 00:02:48,510 S1: real human being, (866) 953-2279. And thank you for your support 48 00:02:48,510 --> 00:02:52,230 S1: of the radio backyard fence. One more note Rosie's Book 49 00:02:52,230 --> 00:02:55,150 S1: Club is next Monday. There's still time to read our 50 00:02:55,150 --> 00:02:59,820 S1: next novel. It's short, really interesting. It's been a little 51 00:02:59,820 --> 00:03:02,700 S1: challenging for me. So see what you think. I've heard 52 00:03:02,700 --> 00:03:05,299 S1: a lot about George MacDonald through the years, read a 53 00:03:05,300 --> 00:03:08,540 S1: lot of quotes by him, and I know C.S. Lewis 54 00:03:08,540 --> 00:03:13,100 S1: and other luminaries loved McDonald's. So rosy chose the wise 55 00:03:13,100 --> 00:03:16,380 S1: woman as her next read. My copy is only about 56 00:03:16,380 --> 00:03:19,380 S1: 100 pages. We'll be talking about it on Monday, so 57 00:03:19,380 --> 00:03:22,020 S1: grab a copy from wherever you grab copies of old 58 00:03:22,020 --> 00:03:26,020 S1: books and join us for Rosie's Book Club 2.0. You 59 00:03:26,020 --> 00:03:28,780 S1: can find out more at our Facebook page. We have 60 00:03:28,780 --> 00:03:33,340 S1: a link right there. Chris Fabbri live dot ORG. Well, 61 00:03:33,340 --> 00:03:35,340 S1: I wanted to have Patrick on with us today, but 62 00:03:35,340 --> 00:03:37,780 S1: he wasn't available. So I've done the next best thing 63 00:03:37,780 --> 00:03:41,540 S1: and that is to to invite Jack and Liz Hagler. 64 00:03:41,780 --> 00:03:44,260 S1: And with a name like that Jack, I got to use. 65 00:03:44,300 --> 00:03:46,700 S1: I get when I'm buying a used car, you got 66 00:03:46,740 --> 00:03:48,620 S1: to come with me to do that because you were 67 00:03:48,620 --> 00:03:49,900 S1: born Hagler, right? 68 00:03:49,940 --> 00:03:52,860 S2: There you go. There you go. I told I said, 69 00:03:53,100 --> 00:03:55,380 S2: you know, Liz is actually better than I am at 70 00:03:55,380 --> 00:03:59,010 S2: the Hagler, but she's now adopted the name, so love it. 71 00:03:59,490 --> 00:04:01,850 S1: This is the team, folks, that came up with the 72 00:04:01,850 --> 00:04:06,410 S1: idea for the series of graphic novels titled Patrick Wigglesworth's 73 00:04:06,410 --> 00:04:10,050 S1: Bizarre Bible Adventure. And I'm going to say that many, 74 00:04:10,050 --> 00:04:12,050 S1: many times. And one of these times I'm not going 75 00:04:12,050 --> 00:04:15,490 S1: to get it right, but it's okay. So, Jack, you first, 76 00:04:15,530 --> 00:04:19,970 S1: first you you studied engineering at UC Berkeley, and I 77 00:04:20,010 --> 00:04:23,570 S1: don't see that as the usual path to the pastorate 78 00:04:23,570 --> 00:04:27,370 S1: and then authoring a children's series. So explain that to me. 79 00:04:27,690 --> 00:04:31,250 S2: Well, you know, some people are surprised I became a 80 00:04:31,250 --> 00:04:36,409 S2: Christian at UC Berkeley. So I was and got involved there. 81 00:04:36,450 --> 00:04:38,010 S2: That's I won't go into the whole story, but got 82 00:04:38,010 --> 00:04:40,650 S2: involved with what was then called Campus Crusade for Christ 83 00:04:40,690 --> 00:04:44,970 S2: now crew, um, and, uh, but was in engineering for 84 00:04:44,970 --> 00:04:47,969 S2: a while. And anyway, just, I went down to visit 85 00:04:47,970 --> 00:04:50,529 S2: Brazil with some missionaries, felt like God wanted me to 86 00:04:50,529 --> 00:04:52,810 S2: be involved. So I went up to seminary up at 87 00:04:52,810 --> 00:04:57,920 S2: Western Seminary in Portland, Oregon. And, uh, the how this, 88 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,160 S2: the book obviously came about a lot later, but, uh, 89 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,440 S2: when I went to seminary, right in the beginning, I 90 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,240 S2: was a pretty new Christian. I remember the very first 91 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,600 S2: course I took was an Old Testament survey class. And 92 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,760 S2: I remember just sitting there with my mouth open, realizing 93 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,359 S2: that all of this fits together, you know, from the 94 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,479 S2: Old Testament, New Testament. And it was in my heart 95 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,239 S2: at that time, just want to be able to provide 96 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,720 S2: that big picture overview of the scriptures, you know, and 97 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,719 S2: little did I realize at the time that when Liz 98 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,160 S2: and I were well, actually, I wasn't even married yet 99 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,559 S2: when we first went up there. But that Liz, who's 100 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,600 S2: had a heart for children's book book, Bill's book since 101 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,039 S2: he was young, that that would all come together and 102 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:44,280 S2: eventually become part of this Patrick Wigglesworth Bazaar Bible adventure. 103 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,280 S1: You have to tell me, though, I had a pastor 104 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,679 S1: who came to the University of Arizona on a baseball 105 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,320 S1: scholarship and studied here, and he had. I can't remember 106 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,440 S1: if it was an arm or a knee injury, but 107 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,600 S1: he was walking back to his dorm lower than low, 108 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,800 S1: and reached, reached down and picked up a tract from 109 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:09,000 S1: the gutter, went back, read the passages in the Bible 110 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,200 S1: and became a Christian that way. You know, it's just like, incredible. 111 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:13,839 S3: Yeah. Wow. 112 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,240 S1: So. So at UC Berkeley, you didn't pick up a 113 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,400 S1: tract or was it somebody on the street corner preaching? 114 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,719 S2: No, it was a human tract. I was in a fraternity, 115 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,760 S2: one of my fraternity brothers I really respected. And one 116 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,599 S2: day I went into his room and I kind of 117 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,000 S2: plopped down in his bed. And his name was Marshall. 118 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,120 S2: I said, Marshall, what's the difference between your life and 119 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,080 S2: my life? And he was part of Campus Crusade at 120 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,320 S2: the time, and he pulled out a four spiritual laws 121 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,880 S2: and shared it with me. And it was it took 122 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,520 S2: me two more years to get to the end of myself. 123 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,200 S2: But that's how I first heard the gospel was through 124 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:51,080 S2: my friend Marshall. 125 00:06:51,630 --> 00:06:53,670 S1: How did you get to the end of yourself? What 126 00:06:53,670 --> 00:06:55,390 S1: does that mean? Got to the end of yourself. 127 00:06:55,589 --> 00:06:59,750 S2: You know, I had this idea as to what life 128 00:06:59,750 --> 00:07:02,390 S2: was supposed to be like growing up. I was very 129 00:07:02,430 --> 00:07:06,830 S2: athletically oriented. I was at Berkeley as well and engineering, 130 00:07:06,830 --> 00:07:10,430 S2: and I had this plan. And towards the end of 131 00:07:10,430 --> 00:07:14,510 S2: my senior year, that plan started to fall apart everywhere. 132 00:07:14,870 --> 00:07:19,430 S2: And I began to realize my plan is a complete failure. 133 00:07:19,750 --> 00:07:22,070 S2: And I'm, you know, in my mind, in my heart, 134 00:07:22,110 --> 00:07:24,710 S2: you know, I'm seeing myself that way. And that's when 135 00:07:24,710 --> 00:07:27,670 S2: I was really began to be open to the Lord 136 00:07:27,670 --> 00:07:30,270 S2: speaking to my heart. And, and then the words for 137 00:07:30,270 --> 00:07:33,030 S2: my friend who had shared it two years before came 138 00:07:33,030 --> 00:07:35,550 S2: back to me. And, and I just got, I just 139 00:07:35,550 --> 00:07:38,110 S2: got down on my face and started crying and cried 140 00:07:38,110 --> 00:07:40,070 S2: out to God, you know, I didn't really know exactly 141 00:07:40,070 --> 00:07:42,790 S2: what I was doing, but later on I got involved 142 00:07:42,790 --> 00:07:45,790 S2: right away with Campus Crusade. And obviously I started really 143 00:07:45,790 --> 00:07:47,990 S2: understanding what my faith was all about. 144 00:07:48,030 --> 00:07:50,740 S1: Yeah. God did. God knew what you were doing. Yeah, 145 00:07:51,020 --> 00:07:53,660 S1: that's the important thing. You know, I love the quote 146 00:07:53,660 --> 00:07:56,300 S1: by Mike Tyson who said, everybody has a plan until 147 00:07:56,300 --> 00:07:57,340 S1: you get hit in the mouth. 148 00:07:58,460 --> 00:07:59,140 S2: Exactly. 149 00:07:59,180 --> 00:08:02,780 S1: You know, that's that's pretty much like our life. Okay. So, Liz, 150 00:08:03,020 --> 00:08:06,580 S1: you knew early on when you were a young girl, 151 00:08:06,580 --> 00:08:09,660 S1: you knew you loved to draw. You knew you loved art. 152 00:08:09,660 --> 00:08:12,580 S1: To illustrate. Did you get a lot of encouragement about 153 00:08:12,580 --> 00:08:13,740 S1: that when you were younger? 154 00:08:14,340 --> 00:08:17,780 S3: Uh, yes. I mean, I was I wasn't as talented 155 00:08:17,780 --> 00:08:20,700 S3: as Jack and had as many options. So I basically 156 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:23,100 S3: focused in more on that. But, um, so I used 157 00:08:23,100 --> 00:08:26,340 S3: to draw my book covers and everything that every place 158 00:08:26,340 --> 00:08:28,140 S3: that you could draw, I used to draw, I copied 159 00:08:28,180 --> 00:08:31,300 S3: Charles Schulz stuff. And so yes, and I actually remember 160 00:08:31,300 --> 00:08:34,500 S3: at church one time looking at, I had, it was 161 00:08:34,540 --> 00:08:37,940 S3: a church experience. And when I was younger and there 162 00:08:37,940 --> 00:08:41,740 S3: was this information for children's books and I literally thought 163 00:08:41,740 --> 00:08:44,300 S3: I could do this, I could do something like this. 164 00:08:44,300 --> 00:08:46,580 S3: But we didn't have Google in those days. So it 165 00:08:46,580 --> 00:08:48,699 S3: was kind of a long journey to figure out that 166 00:08:48,700 --> 00:08:51,329 S3: whole process of how you're going to actually make a living. 167 00:08:51,610 --> 00:08:53,250 S3: And all the pieces. 168 00:08:53,250 --> 00:08:55,130 S2: You used to draw and covers of books. 169 00:08:55,170 --> 00:08:57,330 S3: Yeah. I drew covers on books. And I, I, I 170 00:08:57,450 --> 00:08:59,569 S3: had my first book I worked on was called Thud 171 00:08:59,610 --> 00:09:02,930 S3: the Dud. And so I drew all the pictures and 172 00:09:02,929 --> 00:09:06,370 S3: I went to the writers conferences and all of that 173 00:09:06,370 --> 00:09:09,410 S3: whole process. And it was really after we got married, 174 00:09:09,410 --> 00:09:13,610 S3: when he was a pastor, I had done some children's books. Um, 175 00:09:13,770 --> 00:09:16,130 S3: I did the early Reader Bible and the Bible animal 176 00:09:16,130 --> 00:09:19,450 S3: story book because we met some people in seminary, Multnomah 177 00:09:19,490 --> 00:09:23,210 S3: Bible was up there. And then basically from there, we learned, 178 00:09:23,530 --> 00:09:27,130 S3: I just started connecting the dots on, hey, maybe I 179 00:09:27,130 --> 00:09:29,090 S3: could do an overview of the Bible when he was 180 00:09:29,090 --> 00:09:32,490 S3: in the, um, the pastorate kids didn't have, they had 181 00:09:32,490 --> 00:09:34,050 S3: a lot of Bible stories. They didn't have the big 182 00:09:34,050 --> 00:09:35,970 S3: idea of each book in the Bible. So that's kind 183 00:09:35,970 --> 00:09:39,850 S3: of when our first book that we worked on, um, 184 00:09:40,170 --> 00:09:43,730 S3: it's called Patrick Wigglesworth got hooked on the book. The book. 185 00:09:43,850 --> 00:09:45,330 S3: It's been a long time since then. 186 00:09:45,690 --> 00:09:48,410 S1: How did you keep that dream going though? because there's 187 00:09:48,410 --> 00:09:51,330 S1: a lot of, you know, a lot of rejection, right? 188 00:09:51,370 --> 00:09:55,570 S3: Yeah, a lot of rejection. I think, um, I, I, 189 00:09:55,610 --> 00:09:58,130 S3: by the grace of God, honestly, I was able to 190 00:09:58,170 --> 00:10:00,890 S3: compartmentalize different seasons of my life. I had read a 191 00:10:00,890 --> 00:10:04,809 S3: lot of biographies of people that were successful as artists 192 00:10:04,809 --> 00:10:08,090 S3: and or different things, and they were mostly men. So 193 00:10:08,090 --> 00:10:09,850 S3: I wanted to have a family. So I had to 194 00:10:09,850 --> 00:10:13,250 S3: learn to compartmentalize seasons of my life. And Jack, when 195 00:10:13,250 --> 00:10:16,050 S3: we first got married, I was saying, oh yeah, I 196 00:10:16,050 --> 00:10:17,530 S3: want to do this. And he goes, it's not the 197 00:10:17,530 --> 00:10:21,490 S3: right season. So I would work a couple hours a 198 00:10:21,530 --> 00:10:24,250 S3: day and just kind of set aside time as we 199 00:10:24,290 --> 00:10:27,370 S3: homeschooled our kids and we did the other seasons of life, right? 200 00:10:27,410 --> 00:10:30,010 S3: And then when my old, my youngest kid was in 201 00:10:30,010 --> 00:10:33,730 S3: high school, then I started like pushing out all the 202 00:10:33,730 --> 00:10:36,770 S3: stuff that I had been developing over the years. So yeah, 203 00:10:36,770 --> 00:10:38,410 S3: it was a long process. 204 00:10:38,809 --> 00:10:43,890 S1: So we there are. Three books out now. The fourth 205 00:10:43,890 --> 00:10:46,209 S1: comes out in February. AM I getting that right? 206 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:46,760 S3: Okay. Yes. 207 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:47,120 S2: Yes. 208 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,920 S1: And the first three are the Old Testament. And the 209 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,400 S1: fourth will begin in the New Testament. So let me 210 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,800 S1: take a break. If you go to our website, Chris 211 00:10:55,840 --> 00:11:01,880 S1: Fabry live.org, you'll see more about Patrick Wigglesworth's bizarre Bible adventures. 212 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,720 S1: And we're going to talk about especially the the Old 213 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,839 S1: Testament stories and how Patrick gets into them, his snarky 214 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:14,439 S1: attitude and why this has captivated a lot of young 215 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,360 S1: kids might be helpful to you as you listen. This 216 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:31,800 S1: is Chris Fabry live on Moody Radio. The Hagglers are 217 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,880 S1: with us today at the Radio Backyard fence. Jack and Liz. 218 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,000 S1: Liz Hagler has been a has a BA in Art 219 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,840 S1: and English from the University of California at Davis. She's 220 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,510 S1: the illustrator of the Bible Animal Storybook and the Early 221 00:11:45,510 --> 00:11:51,550 S1: Reader's Bible, and co-author of the Patrick Wigglesworth's Bizarre Bible 222 00:11:51,550 --> 00:11:57,670 S1: adventure series. Jack has been a pastor, teacher, executive coach, engineer, 223 00:11:57,710 --> 00:12:05,430 S1: senior project manager, astronaut, home school principal, children's. He's done everything. 224 00:12:05,550 --> 00:12:08,870 S1: Everything but a used car salesman. And that's coming out probably. 225 00:12:09,550 --> 00:12:12,710 S1: He has an MDiv from Western Seminary. He mentioned that 226 00:12:12,910 --> 00:12:16,230 S1: and his passion is to help kids discover God's goodness 227 00:12:16,230 --> 00:12:19,670 S1: and plan for their lives in every book of the Bible. 228 00:12:19,870 --> 00:12:24,709 S1: And that's why they have written this Patrick Wigglesworth's series. Uh, 229 00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:26,990 S1: is it 38 years you two have been married? 230 00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:30,710 S3: 04242 this year? 231 00:12:31,030 --> 00:12:32,910 S1: Yeah, I got a, I got a earlier. 232 00:12:32,950 --> 00:12:35,309 S2: Well, that might have been on one of the earlier 233 00:12:35,350 --> 00:12:36,310 S2: books there. 234 00:12:36,429 --> 00:12:40,870 S1: Okay, so 42 years. You have to know this before 235 00:12:40,870 --> 00:12:43,350 S1: we get to Patrick. We have to know the the 236 00:12:43,470 --> 00:12:47,270 S1: love story. Were you two? How did you meet? What happened? 237 00:12:47,309 --> 00:12:47,670 S3: Uh. 238 00:12:48,110 --> 00:12:52,630 S2: Well, uh, so we were both at, uh, at Berkeley 239 00:12:52,630 --> 00:12:55,030 S2: at the time I finished school, and I was, uh. 240 00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:55,990 S2: Liz came over. 241 00:12:56,030 --> 00:12:58,670 S3: Yeah. I was, um, a California College of Arts and 242 00:12:58,670 --> 00:13:01,390 S3: Crafts and which is in the same area. So we 243 00:13:01,390 --> 00:13:02,630 S3: met at a Bible study actually. 244 00:13:02,670 --> 00:13:04,589 S2: Yeah. I was, it was at a house that I 245 00:13:04,590 --> 00:13:06,150 S2: was living in and we had a, it was a 246 00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:09,990 S2: summertime and I was, uh, teaching a Bible study and 247 00:13:09,990 --> 00:13:12,870 S2: Liz was in the area and came to that study. 248 00:13:12,870 --> 00:13:14,510 S2: And that was the first time we met. 249 00:13:14,630 --> 00:13:16,830 S3: And yeah. And I thought he was really cute. And 250 00:13:16,830 --> 00:13:18,950 S3: I thought, oh my goodness, I'm going to have a 251 00:13:18,950 --> 00:13:22,630 S3: crush on him. And I told God, no, no, no, no, 252 00:13:22,630 --> 00:13:25,470 S3: I'm not doing that. So I just gave him up 253 00:13:25,470 --> 00:13:27,870 S3: to God at that point. So that was what was different. 254 00:13:27,870 --> 00:13:29,709 S2: But we ended up, I invited her to go to 255 00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:32,870 S2: the church where I was going. So a little ulterior 256 00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:36,190 S2: motives there, but, uh, and so then we started to 257 00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:37,390 S2: get to know each other better. 258 00:13:37,390 --> 00:13:39,190 S3: And then it was a lot of drama. You don't 259 00:13:39,190 --> 00:13:41,350 S3: want to really know the whole story. Anyway, it took 260 00:13:41,350 --> 00:13:44,980 S3: us a lot of breakups and determining the will of God. 261 00:13:45,340 --> 00:13:47,340 S3: And oh my gosh, I don't know if I can 262 00:13:47,340 --> 00:13:49,260 S3: pick one. You know a lot of that. 263 00:13:49,620 --> 00:13:50,460 S1: Okay. So who. 264 00:13:50,540 --> 00:13:51,020 S2: Who's. 265 00:13:51,380 --> 00:13:54,940 S1: Who said no? Did she let you go? Jack, before 266 00:13:54,940 --> 00:13:55,939 S1: you let her go? 267 00:13:56,140 --> 00:13:59,420 S3: Every break, every time we progress in the relationship. There 268 00:13:59,420 --> 00:14:01,620 S3: was a breakup. But I wasn't one of those people 269 00:14:01,620 --> 00:14:04,100 S3: who was trying to. I didn't want any. I wanted 270 00:14:04,100 --> 00:14:06,100 S3: to marry somebody that was really excited about marry Me. 271 00:14:06,100 --> 00:14:08,980 S3: And he just was not sure. So I said, well, 272 00:14:08,980 --> 00:14:11,340 S3: if you're not sure, you know, we got to move away. 273 00:14:11,380 --> 00:14:14,140 S3: And so then he would be more sure and we 274 00:14:14,140 --> 00:14:17,340 S3: start dating. And then he was not sure. And then 275 00:14:17,540 --> 00:14:21,300 S3: I would be like, finally at the end, after several breakups, 276 00:14:21,780 --> 00:14:24,740 S3: I said I had a friend that had had really 277 00:14:24,740 --> 00:14:27,380 S3: tragedy in her life. And I was sitting there at 278 00:14:27,380 --> 00:14:30,460 S3: this situation going, this is not real tragedy, what I'm 279 00:14:30,460 --> 00:14:32,860 S3: dealing with. And so I went back to the place 280 00:14:32,860 --> 00:14:36,140 S3: I had just read, uh, Dobson's book, Love Must Be 281 00:14:36,140 --> 00:14:39,580 S3: Tough to. So I went back to his house and 282 00:14:39,580 --> 00:14:41,570 S3: I said, hey, I need to talk to you. I 283 00:14:41,610 --> 00:14:43,650 S3: walked up the stairs. I sat down. You know, I 284 00:14:43,650 --> 00:14:45,850 S3: realized I'm ready to get married and you're not. So 285 00:14:45,890 --> 00:14:48,810 S3: I think it's time to break up. And he goes, oh. 286 00:14:48,970 --> 00:14:50,570 S3: And he walked me out and he goes, can I 287 00:14:50,570 --> 00:14:54,050 S3: at least have a hug? And I said, sure, a hug, 288 00:14:54,290 --> 00:14:56,210 S3: you know? And then basically. 289 00:14:56,450 --> 00:14:57,250 S2: Three weeks later. 290 00:14:57,290 --> 00:14:57,450 S3: I. 291 00:14:57,450 --> 00:14:57,970 S2: Ditched him. 292 00:14:58,250 --> 00:14:59,770 S3: Yeah. Oh, yeah. 293 00:15:00,250 --> 00:15:00,690 S1: Okay. 294 00:15:00,850 --> 00:15:01,770 S3: Is that dramatic. 295 00:15:01,810 --> 00:15:04,490 S1: Do you think? Jack. That part of that is your 296 00:15:04,490 --> 00:15:09,010 S1: engineering background, your mathematical mind that you're looking at all 297 00:15:09,010 --> 00:15:11,850 S1: the permutations of what might be, could be. 298 00:15:12,410 --> 00:15:15,770 S2: Yeah. Yes. And I would also say just at the time, 299 00:15:15,770 --> 00:15:18,970 S2: just not as in touch with my emotional side and 300 00:15:18,970 --> 00:15:23,370 S2: really understanding how my feelings were kind of how to 301 00:15:23,370 --> 00:15:25,330 S2: process those and so forth. I just didn't have a 302 00:15:25,330 --> 00:15:27,010 S2: lot of background perfection. 303 00:15:27,010 --> 00:15:31,490 S3: He really had this mindset that perfection. And I was like, 304 00:15:31,530 --> 00:15:35,210 S3: you know, we're pretty on the table about in conversations. 305 00:15:35,210 --> 00:15:39,609 S3: It wasn't romantic every moment. So we were pretty straight shooters. 306 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:40,640 S2: But eventually. 307 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:41,000 S3: Yeah. 308 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,800 S2: God, uh, gave me just, uh, from a passage in 309 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,960 S2: Hebrews where he says, when Abraham had been called by 310 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,920 S2: God and it says he went out where without knowing 311 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,960 S2: where he was going, right. And God brought that to me. 312 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:55,960 S2: And he said, Jack, you don't get all the answers 313 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:57,640 S2: in this. You just got to go out by faith. 314 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:58,000 S3: Faith. 315 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,400 S2: Yeah, and I did, and it's been great. 42 years later, 316 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:02,560 S2: I'm super happy. 317 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:03,680 S3: Well, how has. 318 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,400 S1: She changed you most? Jack? Yeah. How's Liz changed you? 319 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,000 S2: Liz is so insightful. And you know where I was 320 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:15,000 S2: struggling on digging out my emotions. And we've been spending 321 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:19,240 S2: 42 years, you know, helping me understand, you know, how 322 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,320 S2: to really process those emotions and get those out and 323 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:27,080 S2: interact in a way that's, you know, just, uh, more transparent, 324 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,760 S2: more vulnerable. And, uh, it's, and we, you know, we 325 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,280 S2: had a conversation for an hour this morning and just 326 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,920 S2: about a bunch of different things. And she's great with that. 327 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,080 S1: What about you, Liz? How, how and change is not 328 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,920 S1: like Jack needed to change you or you needed to 329 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,480 S1: change Jack. But you spend 42 years with each other 330 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:51,320 S1: and something has to happen that because of the iron, 331 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,880 S1: sharpens iron. So what has he done in your life? 332 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,160 S3: Well, you know, Jack is just an anchor of, uh, 333 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,400 S3: just even he says what he's going to do. He 334 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,000 S3: I came from a much more emotional family and he's just, 335 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:10,680 S3: just even keel engineer just loves the Lord with all 336 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,800 S3: his heart. And I, for me, we always go back 337 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,760 S3: to what does God have? And I'm just steady. He 338 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,320 S3: says what he's going to do and he does what 339 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,200 S3: he says and like for this whole series, even starting it, 340 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,720 S3: it was kind of like, hey, this is my chance, 341 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:26,720 S3: you know, are you on board? And he wrote me 342 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,600 S3: a whole thing. He said, it's your turn. You've been waiting. 343 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,960 S3: And he wrote me a whole commitment on a piece 344 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,720 S3: of paper that I framed that he was all in, 345 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,430 S3: and we weren't even sure where we were going with this. 346 00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:39,830 S3: I had just invested all these years and he was 347 00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:41,909 S3: all in. He's just a rock. 348 00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:44,750 S1: He didn't write that on graph paper, did he? 349 00:17:45,030 --> 00:17:45,590 S3: No. 350 00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:48,629 S2: No, but it was typed. 351 00:17:48,670 --> 00:17:52,350 S3: It was all typed out. He's very committed. When he's committed, 352 00:17:52,390 --> 00:17:55,470 S3: he's all in. And that's the thing for me, it's 353 00:17:55,470 --> 00:17:59,750 S3: just to have a base like that. Um, it's just 354 00:17:59,750 --> 00:18:01,750 S3: amazing to be so solid. 355 00:18:02,270 --> 00:18:04,790 S1: That's really good. And I'm glad, you know, we spent 356 00:18:04,790 --> 00:18:07,910 S1: the first 20 minutes here just just talking about you. 357 00:18:07,910 --> 00:18:11,230 S1: But that is going to help some parents who are 358 00:18:11,230 --> 00:18:14,949 S1: looking at a graphic novel. Who are these people and 359 00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:17,590 S1: what are they trying to do? And they're, they're changing 360 00:18:17,590 --> 00:18:20,230 S1: the Bible story because it's not the King James or 361 00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:23,510 S1: NIV or whatever, because it is a story. So now 362 00:18:23,510 --> 00:18:26,030 S1: that we know where your heart, where you come from 363 00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:30,629 S1: and child evangelism, you worked with child evangelism as well. Uh, 364 00:18:30,830 --> 00:18:35,709 S1: Patrick Patty Wigglesworth, how did he spring into your consciousness? 365 00:18:37,300 --> 00:18:40,260 S3: Well, we had this other book we did called hooked 366 00:18:40,260 --> 00:18:43,139 S3: on the book Patrick's Adventures Through the Books of the Bible. 367 00:18:43,140 --> 00:18:45,899 S3: And I wanted to be able to have a series 368 00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:48,379 S3: where I have a graphic design background, where we had 369 00:18:48,380 --> 00:18:50,260 S3: a poem for each book of the Bible. 370 00:18:50,660 --> 00:18:51,619 S2: Um, that was the first. 371 00:18:51,660 --> 00:18:53,380 S3: That was the first one. And that was the one 372 00:18:53,380 --> 00:18:56,620 S3: I spent the years building. And as we went out 373 00:18:56,619 --> 00:18:58,940 S3: there and we went out and talked to people about it, 374 00:18:58,980 --> 00:19:01,820 S3: we had curriculum, we sold it at different places. Um, 375 00:19:02,060 --> 00:19:04,620 S3: I realized it needed to be more of a story. 376 00:19:04,619 --> 00:19:08,460 S3: And when we were working with Child Evangelism Fellowship, Scholastic 377 00:19:08,460 --> 00:19:11,060 S3: came in with all these books and we would be 378 00:19:11,060 --> 00:19:13,540 S3: sharing the gospel with all these kids, and then they'd 379 00:19:13,580 --> 00:19:17,220 S3: be walking away reading Wimpy Kid books, which is nothing 380 00:19:17,220 --> 00:19:20,140 S3: wrong with Wimpy Kid books. But basically, for us, we 381 00:19:20,180 --> 00:19:23,660 S3: were trying to say, how can we? I actually told God, 382 00:19:23,660 --> 00:19:26,460 S3: I put Wimpy Kid in one hand and like the 383 00:19:26,619 --> 00:19:28,859 S3: book in the other hand, Lord, you've got all these 384 00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:31,180 S3: years invested in this. How do you want to how 385 00:19:31,180 --> 00:19:33,900 S3: can I put these together? What can I learn from this, 386 00:19:34,210 --> 00:19:37,930 S3: this style. So we study the style and, um, that's 387 00:19:37,930 --> 00:19:40,169 S3: how it came. We were trying to reach those kids 388 00:19:40,170 --> 00:19:43,530 S3: that go to child evangelism fellowship, and a lot of 389 00:19:43,530 --> 00:19:47,689 S3: families that are newer Christians that don't feel confident in 390 00:19:47,730 --> 00:19:50,609 S3: the big stories. We wanted to give them the overview 391 00:19:50,609 --> 00:19:52,889 S3: in a very easy way that they could relate to 392 00:19:52,930 --> 00:19:55,770 S3: as a family. We do have these free family devotions 393 00:19:55,770 --> 00:20:00,410 S3: online that supplement each of them, because a lot of parents, 394 00:20:00,410 --> 00:20:03,530 S3: we feel like they don't have the confidence to teach 395 00:20:03,530 --> 00:20:06,770 S3: their kids the Bible. And so basically, if they can 396 00:20:06,770 --> 00:20:09,410 S3: start laughing and learning together with their kids, then they 397 00:20:09,410 --> 00:20:11,810 S3: can start reading verses. Maybe that would be a way 398 00:20:11,810 --> 00:20:14,810 S3: that we could start doing family devotions together as a family. 399 00:20:15,010 --> 00:20:17,850 S2: Can I want to go back to the earlier question, though, Patrick, 400 00:20:17,890 --> 00:20:20,850 S2: actually the name actually Patrick. We were trying to figure 401 00:20:20,850 --> 00:20:23,130 S2: out what his name should be and our we were. 402 00:20:23,170 --> 00:20:26,290 S2: And our daughter suggested the name Patrick because it's friendly, 403 00:20:26,290 --> 00:20:29,290 S2: kids will like it and so forth. The Wigglesworth came 404 00:20:29,290 --> 00:20:32,369 S2: because of Smith Wigglesworth, who was an evangelist in England. 405 00:20:32,369 --> 00:20:34,410 S2: You're probably familiar with. And we love a plumber. 406 00:20:34,450 --> 00:20:36,010 S3: It was funny. Love the name. 407 00:20:36,050 --> 00:20:40,050 S2: It was a fun name. Yeah. There's a bunch of, um, 408 00:20:40,090 --> 00:20:43,450 S2: if you look in there, you'll, you'll notice some other 409 00:20:43,450 --> 00:20:47,690 S2: Christian last names in particular of sort of famous Christians 410 00:20:47,690 --> 00:20:49,770 S2: throughout history are within the book. 411 00:20:49,810 --> 00:20:50,250 S3: We just. 412 00:20:50,250 --> 00:20:52,450 S2: Have fun. But that's where. And then Patty was just 413 00:20:52,450 --> 00:20:54,650 S2: fun because it just kind of rolled off the tongue. 414 00:20:54,850 --> 00:20:55,210 S2: You know? 415 00:20:55,250 --> 00:20:59,810 S1: Well, yeah. And it's PADDY and it's, he's named after 416 00:20:59,810 --> 00:21:04,730 S1: his dad's brother who was a bowler or. Yeah. 417 00:21:04,890 --> 00:21:05,970 S2: If he, if he. 418 00:21:06,530 --> 00:21:07,530 S1: Came up from the. 419 00:21:07,690 --> 00:21:10,530 S2: Part of the story. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you 420 00:21:11,050 --> 00:21:14,930 S2: throw a strike throw a strike. Family. Weird family. Right. 421 00:21:15,850 --> 00:21:18,050 S1: Okay. So this, this tells you and here's the other 422 00:21:18,050 --> 00:21:21,290 S1: thing I like about the books. It is you don't 423 00:21:21,290 --> 00:21:24,290 S1: have to, you know, Patrick doesn't have to go to 424 00:21:24,330 --> 00:21:28,649 S1: sleep or drink a special potion or whatever. He just 425 00:21:28,850 --> 00:21:32,840 S1: starts reading the Bible and boom, he's there with Moses, right? 426 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:33,359 S2: Right. 427 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:34,480 S3: Yeah. That's right. 428 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,800 S2: Well, he asked, what really precipitates the whole thing was 429 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,199 S2: he was he opens up this the Bible and he 430 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,880 S2: looks at its imposing. You know, the Bible is for 431 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,040 S2: a little kid, right. And he opens it up and 432 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,959 S2: he says to God, you know, he goes. He goes, man, 433 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,840 S2: where where are all the pictures? Right? 434 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:51,959 S3: He hasn't even said to God. He just says, well. 435 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,920 S2: He's just saying it out loud. He doesn't know God's 436 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,399 S2: even hearing him. So he says, this is so long. Who, whatever, 437 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,439 S2: who would ever read it? Where is it? You're looking at. 438 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:01,080 S3: The actual. 439 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:02,000 S2: What is it read at? 440 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,400 S3: What is what is this? Why is this book so 441 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,000 S3: thick and confusing? What does it have to do with 442 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,920 S3: my life? And where are the cartoons, you know, and 443 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,400 S3: then what do you know? Someone was listening because that's 444 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,400 S3: when I got yanked into my Bible adventure. 445 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,360 S2: So that's what that's what caused it all. He was 446 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:20,320 S2: just asking some kind of innocent real life kid questions and, 447 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,440 S2: you know, boom, he's in the Bible. 448 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,200 S1: I love it when Adam is naming all the. 449 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:27,800 S2: Animals. 450 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,950 S1: And Patrick wants to label them, right? 451 00:22:33,790 --> 00:22:34,230 S2: Yeah. 452 00:22:35,070 --> 00:22:37,629 S1: And he tries to label the fish. He tries to 453 00:22:37,630 --> 00:22:39,590 S1: label the fish and they all float away. 454 00:22:40,150 --> 00:22:42,990 S2: And then the porcupine sticking it on the quill there. 455 00:22:43,030 --> 00:22:44,310 S2: You know, that's kind of fun. 456 00:22:44,790 --> 00:22:48,190 S1: Okay, so that's so you would think, and this is 457 00:22:48,190 --> 00:22:50,550 S1: because I, I, my kids are grown now. And so 458 00:22:50,550 --> 00:22:53,990 S1: I didn't know anything about this Wigglesworth kid. Uh, but 459 00:22:53,990 --> 00:22:56,110 S1: when I got into him, I started looking at him. 460 00:22:56,109 --> 00:23:00,550 S1: It's like you go back and forth between what Patrick 461 00:23:00,550 --> 00:23:04,869 S1: is experiencing on the playground in school, with his friends, 462 00:23:04,869 --> 00:23:08,150 S1: with the bully and with his little sister and with 463 00:23:08,150 --> 00:23:10,230 S1: his family and all of that. And then you go 464 00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:14,630 S1: back into the scriptural story, the the biblical story, and 465 00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:17,470 S1: you kind of ping pong back and forth. And my 466 00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:19,870 S1: guess is that in the in the books that have 467 00:23:19,869 --> 00:23:22,550 S1: already been done and that are coming, that there are 468 00:23:22,550 --> 00:23:26,830 S1: lessons that he learns that he, you know, puts into 469 00:23:26,869 --> 00:23:29,070 S1: practice in his own life. Right. 470 00:23:29,140 --> 00:23:30,100 S2: Exactly. 471 00:23:30,140 --> 00:23:32,300 S3: Go ahead. The main thing is, is he is a 472 00:23:32,300 --> 00:23:35,580 S3: normal kid and he has character transformation. That's what we're 473 00:23:35,580 --> 00:23:39,220 S3: concerned about. He's like asking questions. Kids that would normally ask, 474 00:23:39,220 --> 00:23:43,180 S3: he's just asking questions because, um, I really think that 475 00:23:43,180 --> 00:23:46,139 S3: God isn't afraid of our questions. God isn't afraid of 476 00:23:46,140 --> 00:23:49,340 S3: any of these things. So ask away. And that's what 477 00:23:49,340 --> 00:23:52,580 S3: Patrick is doing. He's just, you know, learning and asking 478 00:23:52,580 --> 00:23:55,180 S3: and having this experience and back and forth. The story 479 00:23:55,180 --> 00:23:57,619 S3: really gets really fun in the New Testament, which we 480 00:23:57,619 --> 00:24:00,740 S3: won't give any way, but we spent a lot of 481 00:24:00,740 --> 00:24:04,820 S3: time with the Jesus part and all the crucifixion and 482 00:24:04,820 --> 00:24:08,740 S3: the details. But, um, I mean, to give you just 483 00:24:08,740 --> 00:24:11,180 S3: a little bit of fun that's coming up is I 484 00:24:11,180 --> 00:24:13,460 S3: actually lived as a kid in the Middle East when 485 00:24:13,460 --> 00:24:18,060 S3: I was nine years old and my father was an ophthalmologist. 486 00:24:18,060 --> 00:24:21,379 S3: So some of the stuff God has used from my 487 00:24:21,380 --> 00:24:24,300 S3: life experience, we were able to transfer into the New 488 00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:28,780 S3: Testament and we. Jack, Jack's dad did have some of 489 00:24:28,780 --> 00:24:31,260 S3: these miracles. We've been able to integrate a lot of 490 00:24:31,460 --> 00:24:34,219 S3: the things that God has done into our life because we're. 491 00:24:34,260 --> 00:24:35,900 S3: The other thing that we're kind of big on is 492 00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:38,580 S3: this God story concept of kids starting to look at 493 00:24:38,619 --> 00:24:41,580 S3: their lives and see where is God working and families 494 00:24:41,580 --> 00:24:43,979 S3: talking about where is God working? Where. Where do we 495 00:24:44,020 --> 00:24:46,980 S3: see God show up today? And that whole concept, Patrick 496 00:24:47,020 --> 00:24:51,300 S3: talks about, um, with his family and part of that. 497 00:24:51,740 --> 00:24:54,260 S2: Yeah. No, I was going to say, but, but going 498 00:24:54,260 --> 00:24:57,619 S2: back to the back and forth, um, idea. Yeah. Where 499 00:24:57,660 --> 00:25:00,820 S2: Patrick has an incident in his own life where there's 500 00:25:00,820 --> 00:25:05,260 S2: a struggle, a trial, whatever. And then he remembers what he, 501 00:25:05,300 --> 00:25:08,980 S2: something he had learned on his Bible adventure that relates 502 00:25:08,980 --> 00:25:10,939 S2: to that. And now he's able to see how the 503 00:25:10,940 --> 00:25:13,699 S2: Bible is more relevant to his everyday life. And I 504 00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:16,740 S2: think so often for kids, they read the Bible and 505 00:25:16,740 --> 00:25:19,740 S2: it's a Bible story, and it's kind of separate from them, 506 00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:21,860 S2: and they don't see the relevance. And that's what we're 507 00:25:21,859 --> 00:25:25,020 S2: trying to get the connection between what happens in the 508 00:25:25,020 --> 00:25:27,810 S2: scriptures and what's happening in our, in a, in a 509 00:25:27,810 --> 00:25:28,850 S2: kid's everyday life. 510 00:25:29,210 --> 00:25:31,209 S4: The other thing I love about Patrick. 511 00:25:31,250 --> 00:25:34,210 S1: Though, the other thing I love about him is that 512 00:25:34,210 --> 00:25:37,369 S1: he's just real. He's like, he's like Harry Carey. Well, 513 00:25:37,369 --> 00:25:39,649 S1: I always used to love to watch Harry Carey because 514 00:25:39,650 --> 00:25:42,770 S1: he would just be himself. He popped it up. Patrick 515 00:25:42,770 --> 00:25:44,730 S1: is saying the same thing. As a matter of fact, 516 00:25:44,730 --> 00:25:47,050 S1: he said the same thing that I said as a 517 00:25:47,050 --> 00:25:49,489 S1: kid about a Bible story in the Old Testament. I 518 00:25:49,490 --> 00:26:04,609 S1: would tell you about that straight ahead on Moody Radio. Okay. 519 00:26:04,609 --> 00:26:07,610 S1: We're having Rosie's book club on Monday, but I wonder 520 00:26:08,050 --> 00:26:10,609 S1: if there's anybody listening to the sound of my voice 521 00:26:10,609 --> 00:26:14,170 S1: right now who has read about Patrick Wigglesworth. I need 522 00:26:14,170 --> 00:26:18,290 S1: a book report from someone who is young, younger than me, 523 00:26:18,770 --> 00:26:21,690 S1: who has read this, or maybe a parent who has 524 00:26:21,690 --> 00:26:24,129 S1: given this to their kids. And you want to tell 525 00:26:24,170 --> 00:26:27,360 S1: me about what was the funniest moment, or maybe a 526 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,160 S1: poignant moment for your family, because I'm seeing people respond 527 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,160 S1: to this online. And so we, we read this kind 528 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,560 S1: of devotionally and devotions and our kids wanted couldn't tell us, 529 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,080 S1: you know, they told us, don't stop now. Don't stop now. 530 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:45,879 S1: Is there anybody like that? Have you read about Patrick Wigglesworth's, uh, 531 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:52,639 S1: adventure Bible Adventure (877) 548-3675. I want a book report right 532 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,560 S1: now from somebody in the contiguous United States or outside 533 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:05,119 S1: of that (877) 548-3675. Liz and Jack Hagler are with us. 534 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:11,080 S1: The series is Patrick Wigglesworth's bizarre Bible adventure series, and 535 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,320 S1: the first three books are. Deal with the Old Testament 536 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:19,120 S1: Over My Head, Tricky Times and Dangerous Dilemmas. Number four 537 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,240 S1: starts the New Testament. It's coming out, I think in February. 538 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,920 S1: It's called kid Life crisis. And you can find out more. 539 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:31,480 S1: You can see a link right there@kris.org. Kris Fabriclive dot ORG. 540 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,200 S1: I remember I had a King James Bible and it 541 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,480 S1: was Moses and the bulrushes. It was that story. And 542 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,280 S1: I remember looking at that and, you know, thinking, are 543 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,000 S1: there crocodiles? Are there alligators in here? And thinking, I 544 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,480 S1: don't know. And then I read Patrick say the same thing. 545 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,640 S1: He channels the same thing that I said as a kid. 546 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,600 S1: And here's what it says in the story. So Moses 547 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,160 S1: is telling him this is showing him what happened. And 548 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,440 S1: Patrick says, I didn't tell Moses, but I thought it 549 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,040 S1: looked like the world's dumbest plan. Putting a baby, putting 550 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,600 S1: a baby in a basket on the river makes getting 551 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,040 S1: killed even easier. So Patrick is just saying what is 552 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,880 S1: on his mind is in his heart, right, Jack? 553 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,159 S2: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's I mean, it's what it's exactly 554 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:21,560 S2: it's what a keeping it real. 555 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:22,200 S3: That's how our. 556 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,470 S2: Yeah. kids want it real. Right. That's what they love. 557 00:28:25,910 --> 00:28:26,390 S4: Yes. 558 00:28:27,070 --> 00:28:31,590 S1: Um, so the first five books of the Bible, of the, 559 00:28:31,630 --> 00:28:34,670 S1: of all of the, the, the Pentateuch. What was the 560 00:28:34,670 --> 00:28:38,390 S1: hardest thing you tried to let Patrick experience and then 561 00:28:38,390 --> 00:28:39,990 S1: convey to the reader? 562 00:28:40,790 --> 00:28:41,190 S3: Mhm. 563 00:28:41,270 --> 00:28:41,750 S2: Mhm. 564 00:28:42,030 --> 00:28:45,430 S3: That's a good question. I mean, some of the things, 565 00:28:45,430 --> 00:28:49,110 S3: the polygamy, some of that stuff was hard. Um, all 566 00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:53,590 S3: the different wives, you know, that was hard. Um, yeah. 567 00:28:53,630 --> 00:28:56,750 S3: Because the first book sets the whole stage, the whole 568 00:28:56,750 --> 00:29:01,270 S3: story up. There were so many stories that was hard. Um, 569 00:29:01,310 --> 00:29:03,630 S3: and to get it right, because we had to, we 570 00:29:03,630 --> 00:29:07,350 S3: focused on getting the, the Bible story in first and 571 00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:10,470 S3: then do the crazy part into the Bible story. So 572 00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:12,390 S3: there just were a lot of Bible stories. 573 00:29:12,830 --> 00:29:16,230 S2: I mean, I think I, I must, the I'm not 574 00:29:16,230 --> 00:29:19,670 S2: sure I answer the question exactly, but the when, when 575 00:29:19,670 --> 00:29:23,780 S2: you have Moses and you have, um, Moses and Aaron 576 00:29:23,780 --> 00:29:28,700 S2: and they're confronting Pharaoh, right? And bringing those things up. 577 00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:32,020 S2: And we ended up doing a rap for that. And 578 00:29:32,020 --> 00:29:34,940 S2: Liz and I are so far from being rap artists, 579 00:29:34,940 --> 00:29:37,940 S2: it's not even funny. Well, but but it ended up 580 00:29:37,940 --> 00:29:40,620 S2: being one of the most fun things that we did 581 00:29:40,820 --> 00:29:43,220 S2: to where it's as hard hearted Pharaoh, don't you know? 582 00:29:43,220 --> 00:29:45,020 S2: God wants you to let my people go? And then 583 00:29:45,020 --> 00:29:47,780 S2: Pharaoh says, no, you know, there's frogs over in your bed. 584 00:29:47,820 --> 00:29:50,100 S2: You'll walk, you know, swat the nets about your head. 585 00:29:50,140 --> 00:29:53,140 S2: ET cetera. ET cetera. But that was I mean, it 586 00:29:53,140 --> 00:29:55,940 S2: was how do you convey that back and forth? But 587 00:29:55,940 --> 00:29:58,340 S2: doing it in a fun way was, was hard, but 588 00:29:58,340 --> 00:30:00,100 S2: it ended up being really, really fun. 589 00:30:00,140 --> 00:30:02,460 S3: Because they were dark, dark things. How do you do 590 00:30:02,460 --> 00:30:05,340 S3: the dark things? You know, all the people that get die. 591 00:30:05,540 --> 00:30:06,540 S2: Wailing moms over. 592 00:30:06,700 --> 00:30:10,260 S3: The water comes over them. You know, they were disobedient. 593 00:30:10,300 --> 00:30:12,740 S3: They're walking through the Red sea and then everybody dies. 594 00:30:12,860 --> 00:30:14,380 S3: But then you have to kind of make a gag 595 00:30:14,380 --> 00:30:16,860 S3: at the end of the chapter. Those were tricky to 596 00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:19,460 S3: be respectful and make a gag. 597 00:30:20,130 --> 00:30:22,170 S1: Well, you know, I love when they're when they're walking 598 00:30:22,170 --> 00:30:25,290 S1: through the Red sea. You've got a mama fish on 599 00:30:25,290 --> 00:30:28,810 S1: one side and a baby fish on the other side, 600 00:30:29,090 --> 00:30:31,810 S1: and the baby fish is going well. And the mama says, 601 00:30:32,090 --> 00:30:33,610 S1: don't worry, I'm coming soon. 602 00:30:34,370 --> 00:30:39,890 S3: Yeah, yeah. It was very to be respectful, um, and 603 00:30:39,890 --> 00:30:44,370 S3: to be reverent, but, um, we did, we wrote a 604 00:30:44,370 --> 00:30:48,050 S3: disclaimer in the very beginning because, um, absolutely. This is not, 605 00:30:48,050 --> 00:30:50,810 S3: it's not the Bible, it's not trying to be the Bible. 606 00:30:50,810 --> 00:30:53,370 S3: We are trying to get kids to read. And one 607 00:30:53,370 --> 00:30:56,690 S3: of the target markets we're finding is boys. A lot 608 00:30:56,730 --> 00:31:00,490 S3: of boys, uh, don't they're reluctant reader category. They don't 609 00:31:00,490 --> 00:31:04,410 S3: like to read. So we get tons of moms writing us. 610 00:31:04,410 --> 00:31:06,890 S3: Oh my gosh, my sons are reading your books and 611 00:31:06,890 --> 00:31:10,370 S3: I'm not even having to, you know, motivate them any 612 00:31:10,370 --> 00:31:13,370 S3: other way than just, here's the book. So if they 613 00:31:13,370 --> 00:31:15,290 S3: can read, if they can learn to read, they'll read 614 00:31:15,290 --> 00:31:16,610 S3: their Bible. Right. 615 00:31:16,610 --> 00:31:19,970 S2: Well, and you probably noticed, Chris, that at the end 616 00:31:19,970 --> 00:31:23,930 S2: of each Bible story, there's a reference Bible reference there 617 00:31:23,970 --> 00:31:27,090 S2: of where that story came from. So it allows, you know, 618 00:31:27,130 --> 00:31:29,690 S2: family to say, okay, let's read this in the Bible. Right. 619 00:31:29,730 --> 00:31:32,530 S3: And, and also the critical thinking skills. When they read 620 00:31:32,530 --> 00:31:36,730 S3: the Bible, they go, hey, that wouldn't happen. What would happen? 621 00:31:36,770 --> 00:31:38,690 S3: You know what, how did the real story go? We 622 00:31:38,690 --> 00:31:43,090 S3: had a young kid, um, one of our friends did a, um, 623 00:31:43,250 --> 00:31:47,050 S3: at her church. A boys Bible was a boys book club, 624 00:31:47,210 --> 00:31:49,610 S3: and there were 6 or 7 boys in it. And 625 00:31:49,610 --> 00:31:51,850 S3: they loved the book. They're the ones that she would 626 00:31:51,850 --> 00:31:54,850 S3: only read them a chapter every time, and then they 627 00:31:54,850 --> 00:31:56,450 S3: would have pizza and games, and they would look up 628 00:31:56,450 --> 00:31:59,610 S3: all the verses and they colored their books. And one 629 00:31:59,610 --> 00:32:03,170 S3: of the kids actually, um, we had read the first 630 00:32:03,170 --> 00:32:05,970 S3: chapter and as he's reading it, he goes, oh, that 631 00:32:05,970 --> 00:32:08,810 S3: would never happen. And I thought, oh great, he's learning 632 00:32:08,810 --> 00:32:12,490 S3: critical thinking skills on top of this. So yeah, it's 633 00:32:12,490 --> 00:32:14,890 S3: just a lot of different ways we feel like, you know, 634 00:32:14,930 --> 00:32:15,890 S3: God can use it. 635 00:32:16,570 --> 00:32:21,560 S1: You know what this makes me think of is as adults, 636 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:27,000 S1: we don't do this. We we encounter biblical stories as, okay, 637 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,200 S1: what's the lesson here? How do I apply that to 638 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,920 S1: my life? We aim at the head, right? But kids 639 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,800 S1: put themselves right in the middle of it and they think, well, 640 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,960 S1: what would I do in this situation? How would I 641 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,960 S1: react if I saw Noah's Ark? What would happen if 642 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,360 S1: I were there in the feeding? The miracle of feeding 643 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,560 S1: all these people with just a little bit of food, 644 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:52,040 S1: that's a that's amazing. And as, as grown up adults and, 645 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,040 S1: you know, looking at the theology with all this, we 646 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,800 S1: were not as caught up in the story when maybe 647 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,440 S1: that's part of what Jesus talked about. Unless you become 648 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,320 S1: like a little child, what do you think? 649 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:03,840 S3: Right. 650 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:09,000 S2: I absolutely, I think, you know, with the Bible, they 651 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,440 S2: I think the authors want us to they want us 652 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,080 S2: to smell what's going on. They want us to, you know, 653 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:15,760 S2: they want us to be able to see. They want 654 00:33:15,870 --> 00:33:18,950 S2: us to be able to feel and we get. We 655 00:33:18,990 --> 00:33:22,469 S2: step out. We kind of set ourselves back from the 656 00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:24,390 S2: scriptures and not really, you know, enter. 657 00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:27,110 S3: We're so busy trying to teach something out of it 658 00:33:27,110 --> 00:33:30,990 S3: and not really trusting God's transformation process. And if we're 659 00:33:30,990 --> 00:33:34,830 S3: always just hammering our kids, you know, then basically we're 660 00:33:34,830 --> 00:33:38,630 S3: losing on who that kid is and the discovery process. 661 00:33:38,630 --> 00:33:41,590 S3: And for me, that's a lot of it is the discovery. And, 662 00:33:41,910 --> 00:33:44,790 S3: you know, I wasn't the great student. So a lot 663 00:33:44,790 --> 00:33:46,709 S3: of it, I had to learn things on the back end. 664 00:33:46,790 --> 00:33:49,510 S3: I mean, I figured out how to work school. Obviously 665 00:33:49,670 --> 00:33:52,910 S3: I was a good girl, but as far as Jack 666 00:33:52,910 --> 00:33:55,310 S3: was much better at the subject matters. And so a 667 00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:57,710 S3: lot of kids are coming from more my place. They 668 00:33:57,710 --> 00:34:02,110 S3: just don't, you know, intellectually, um, the dots don't come 669 00:34:02,110 --> 00:34:05,870 S3: as fast. They're more visual learners. And, um, how do 670 00:34:05,870 --> 00:34:09,310 S3: we get those visual learners to read the Bible? Right. 671 00:34:09,989 --> 00:34:14,029 S1: Exactly. Okay. So you, you two just have so much 672 00:34:14,030 --> 00:34:16,460 S1: fun with this. I could tell you worked together really well. 673 00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:18,260 S1: Do you. Do you ever wake up in the middle 674 00:34:18,260 --> 00:34:21,540 S1: of the night, Jack and and say, Liz, wake up. 675 00:34:21,540 --> 00:34:23,180 S1: We got to do this in the next book. 676 00:34:24,620 --> 00:34:27,739 S3: Oh, that's usually me. I'm like, oh my goodness, that 677 00:34:27,739 --> 00:34:30,420 S3: we can do that. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. 678 00:34:30,460 --> 00:34:33,260 S3: I'm the I'm the crazy one. He's the sane one. 679 00:34:33,300 --> 00:34:35,180 S3: He's the hey Liz you need to go up in 680 00:34:35,180 --> 00:34:37,820 S3: the office. And how many hours have we got in. Yeah. 681 00:34:37,860 --> 00:34:40,660 S2: So so what happened? Here's how it works. Chris. So 682 00:34:41,380 --> 00:34:43,219 S2: Liz and I, we'll have an outline. You know, we'll 683 00:34:43,219 --> 00:34:45,419 S2: have it kind of laid out. And then Liz will 684 00:34:45,420 --> 00:34:48,580 S2: take a first shot at it and she'll go crazy. 685 00:34:48,620 --> 00:34:51,900 S2: And I mean, because that's her job as crazy as 686 00:34:51,900 --> 00:34:55,300 S2: you can possibly be. And then then it comes back 687 00:34:55,300 --> 00:34:58,460 S2: to me and I look at it and I go, whoa! 688 00:34:58,860 --> 00:35:00,700 S3: Or a little boy things. 689 00:35:00,739 --> 00:35:03,299 S2: Yeah. And yeah. And I'll say, well, yeah, this has 690 00:35:03,300 --> 00:35:06,940 S2: to come out somehow relate to the Bible, you know, but, um, 691 00:35:06,980 --> 00:35:08,060 S2: but that's true. 692 00:35:08,100 --> 00:35:10,299 S3: He did say that at one point, hey, are we 693 00:35:10,300 --> 00:35:12,419 S3: talking about the Bible or not? And I was like, 694 00:35:12,420 --> 00:35:13,219 S3: oh yeah. 695 00:35:13,460 --> 00:35:15,740 S2: But we'll go back and forth and back and forth 696 00:35:15,739 --> 00:35:17,979 S2: and back and forth. But she's the one that can 697 00:35:17,980 --> 00:35:23,140 S2: really get that fun, crazy, zany thing going. And that's key. 698 00:35:23,260 --> 00:35:25,820 S3: And here's the other thing. We do have, uh, kids 699 00:35:25,820 --> 00:35:28,420 S3: that have been living with us for a lot of years, like, 700 00:35:28,580 --> 00:35:31,740 S3: and so basically they give us opinions. Oh no, that wouldn't. 701 00:35:31,780 --> 00:35:32,580 S2: Oh, you talking about our kids? 702 00:35:32,620 --> 00:35:35,980 S3: Yeah. Our kids. Yeah. And they're all parents now. And 703 00:35:35,980 --> 00:35:39,340 S3: we have the grandkids. So they're our grandkids are the 704 00:35:39,340 --> 00:35:43,299 S3: age of this, um, audience. So we have like, we 705 00:35:43,300 --> 00:35:45,860 S3: have a training ground of passing this through to see 706 00:35:45,860 --> 00:35:47,060 S3: how does this really work? 707 00:35:48,739 --> 00:35:53,779 S1: So it's called Patrick Wigglesworth's bizarre Bible adventure series. We 708 00:35:53,780 --> 00:35:58,700 S1: have a link at Chris fabriclive.org there. It's packaged. The 709 00:35:58,739 --> 00:36:01,660 S1: first three have been packaged, I think, this year over 710 00:36:01,700 --> 00:36:05,020 S1: my head, tricky times and dangerous dilemmas. That's the Old 711 00:36:05,060 --> 00:36:08,899 S1: Testament stories, the New Testament coming. And you can find 712 00:36:08,900 --> 00:36:12,890 S1: out more again at the website. Chris Fabry live dot ORG. 713 00:36:13,010 --> 00:36:25,290 S1: More straight ahead on Moody Radio. Coming up tomorrow on 714 00:36:25,290 --> 00:36:28,129 S1: Chris Fabry Live, we have pastor H. B Charles. We're 715 00:36:28,130 --> 00:36:31,050 S1: going to talk about the Psalms. Oh, don't miss that one. 716 00:36:31,410 --> 00:36:34,770 S1: And then on Friday, a great call in. I want 717 00:36:34,810 --> 00:36:38,930 S1: to know about the lunch box notes that you've received 718 00:36:38,930 --> 00:36:42,250 S1: or that you've sent your kids to school with. We're 719 00:36:42,250 --> 00:36:44,410 S1: going to talk about that on and here's some music 720 00:36:44,410 --> 00:36:47,290 S1: on Friday from point of Grace. Rosie's Book Club is 721 00:36:47,290 --> 00:36:50,090 S1: coming up next Monday. Make sure you get a copy 722 00:36:50,090 --> 00:36:53,729 S1: of The Wise Woman. Patrick Wigglesworth could not be with 723 00:36:53,730 --> 00:36:57,810 S1: us today on Chris Fabry Live, but, uh, Liz and 724 00:36:57,810 --> 00:37:03,089 S1: Jack Hagler can. They are the creators of Patrick. And 725 00:37:03,090 --> 00:37:06,609 S1: I wanted to ask you, Jack, what what kind of 726 00:37:06,610 --> 00:37:09,290 S1: feedback are you getting? I can go online and look 727 00:37:09,290 --> 00:37:12,200 S1: at what some people are saying, but face to face, 728 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:13,359 S1: what do people tell you? 729 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,720 S2: Yeah, we were just recently at a homeschooling conference and 730 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,600 S2: selling our books, and we had one young man come 731 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,960 S2: running up to our booth. Uh, and we didn't know 732 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,160 S2: exactly what the story was, but he comes up and 733 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,960 S2: he goes, my parents bought all three books yesterday, and 734 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,320 S2: I read them all last night. I mean, there are 735 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,600 S2: 250 pages of peace, approximately. And he was so excited. 736 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,240 S2: He loved the books. And we had a young lady, 737 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,320 S2: she stopped us in the hallway. We've been teaching the class, 738 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,239 S2: and she stopped us and told us how much she 739 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:44,640 S2: loved it. 740 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:45,680 S3: And some parents home. 741 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,560 S2: Some parents had come up and they were. They were excited. 742 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,680 S2: So they were. They. They all. When we asked them. 743 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,120 S2: They all say, it's funny. That's the first thing out 744 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,520 S2: of every kid's mouth. It was funny, you know, and 745 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,280 S2: I love the stories. I love Patrick's life, you know. Uh, 746 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,880 S2: so it was just the kids are just enjoying it 747 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,040 S2: and they don't necessarily go, oh, I love all the 748 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,000 S2: Bible stories, but they all love the whole, you know, 749 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,600 S2: getting the experience of Patrick's life in and out of 750 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:13,160 S2: the Bible. 751 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,960 S1: Yes. All right. Our caller, Duncan is on the line. Duncan, 752 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:17,880 S1: how old are you? 753 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:20,280 S3: Ten. 754 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,279 S1: Ten years old. Exactly. You are right smack dab in 755 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:24,600 S1: the middle. 756 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:25,400 S3: Perfect. 757 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,239 S1: Yes. Okay. So, Duncan, tell me why you called. What 758 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:29,360 S1: did you think of Patrick? 759 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:36,680 S5: Um. I thought that it was amazing. Um. But I 760 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,600 S5: had a question. 761 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,279 S1: Okay. Okay. All right. Go for it. 762 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:47,320 S5: In the book, Tricky Times in the Past with Solomon's Temple. 763 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,760 S5: Why was Patrick's sunglass lens scratched on one side? 764 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,040 S6: Oh, my gosh, that's a perfect question. 765 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,560 S3: I did not I don't know, we just thought it 766 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,040 S3: was funny. That is such a perfect question. You are 767 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:08,950 S3: a good thinker. My goodness. 768 00:39:09,270 --> 00:39:10,870 S1: Well, observant too, right? 769 00:39:10,910 --> 00:39:11,790 S3: Yeah, exactly. 770 00:39:11,830 --> 00:39:14,710 S2: Yeah. It was just a funny kind of a like 771 00:39:14,750 --> 00:39:18,710 S2: Patrick is always there's something always happening. And he, he 772 00:39:18,710 --> 00:39:21,390 S2: always kind of gets the short end of the stick, 773 00:39:21,430 --> 00:39:23,150 S2: you know. And that was his way. 774 00:39:23,390 --> 00:39:26,190 S3: Duncan. The thing is, is here's the thing. We were 775 00:39:26,190 --> 00:39:29,230 S3: a lot of glasses and they do get scratched a lot. 776 00:39:29,230 --> 00:39:31,589 S3: And that is kind of annoying. So I think that's 777 00:39:31,590 --> 00:39:34,230 S3: probably where it came from. We're old and we have 778 00:39:34,230 --> 00:39:37,029 S3: to wear glasses when we read, so that's probably where 779 00:39:37,030 --> 00:39:39,549 S3: it came from. But good question. 780 00:39:39,550 --> 00:39:42,230 S1: But that's what a good story has a lot of 781 00:39:42,230 --> 00:39:45,230 S1: tension in it, even to that low, you know, that 782 00:39:45,230 --> 00:39:49,990 S1: minimal the micro tension that you have. And that's because 783 00:39:49,989 --> 00:39:52,990 S1: that's what our lives are filled with. It's filled with 784 00:39:52,989 --> 00:39:55,270 S1: tension and it's the tension. A lot of times that 785 00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:58,270 S1: we want to get, we want comfort, we want ease, 786 00:39:58,550 --> 00:40:02,790 S1: but it's the tension that draws us that drags us. Well, Jack, 787 00:40:02,790 --> 00:40:04,950 S1: in your own life, it was you coming to the 788 00:40:04,950 --> 00:40:09,700 S1: end of yourself that took you to, you know, considering Jesus. Right? 789 00:40:09,739 --> 00:40:11,060 S2: Right. Absolutely. 790 00:40:11,260 --> 00:40:14,140 S1: Yeah. Duncan, anything else you want to say before we 791 00:40:14,140 --> 00:40:14,860 S1: let you go? 792 00:40:17,700 --> 00:40:18,980 S5: Uh, no. That's it. 793 00:40:19,020 --> 00:40:19,580 S1: Okay. 794 00:40:20,100 --> 00:40:23,339 S7: Thank you. Duncan. Great to hear your voice. 795 00:40:23,380 --> 00:40:29,620 S1: Our correspondent to Patrick Wigglesworth's bizarre Bible adventure. Duncan. Right here. Um, 796 00:40:29,940 --> 00:40:33,660 S1: I want to know about for the the story about Joseph. 797 00:40:33,700 --> 00:40:36,580 S1: You know, Joseph is accused of something that he didn't 798 00:40:36,580 --> 00:40:41,580 S1: do and pays the penalty. So does the current story. 799 00:40:41,580 --> 00:40:44,819 S1: When Patrick comes back into his own life, does that 800 00:40:44,820 --> 00:40:47,540 S1: mirror some ways that biblical story? 801 00:40:47,580 --> 00:40:51,100 S3: Yes, yes. We did do that one as a mirror. Yes, 802 00:40:51,100 --> 00:40:52,020 S3: we did do that. 803 00:40:52,780 --> 00:40:53,940 S1: What happens to him? 804 00:40:54,460 --> 00:40:57,660 S3: Um, I gotta look back here. He's got he got 805 00:40:57,660 --> 00:41:01,180 S3: in trouble. I we have so many stories. Um, I 806 00:41:01,180 --> 00:41:03,060 S3: think he got in trouble and he and he got, 807 00:41:03,380 --> 00:41:07,530 S3: he got accused falsely. right? Wasn't that one about the drink? Yes. Yeah. 808 00:41:07,570 --> 00:41:09,730 S3: So yeah, we did try and mirror that. 809 00:41:10,370 --> 00:41:13,049 S2: He got accused of cheating. Right. That was the one. 810 00:41:13,050 --> 00:41:13,410 S3: Yeah. 811 00:41:13,930 --> 00:41:16,450 S2: Cheating on a test and he hadn't and he hadn't 812 00:41:16,450 --> 00:41:18,089 S2: done that. And so he had to go through this 813 00:41:18,090 --> 00:41:20,370 S2: whole process there. 814 00:41:20,770 --> 00:41:22,930 S3: Um, but then it came out in the end worked 815 00:41:22,930 --> 00:41:27,009 S3: out okay. I remember something about the juice. Yeah. Gosh, 816 00:41:27,010 --> 00:41:27,529 S3: I haven't read. 817 00:41:27,570 --> 00:41:30,850 S2: But yeah, so we're always, we're always looking for connections. 818 00:41:30,850 --> 00:41:33,969 S2: And you know, Patrick's stories are kind of crazy. I mean, 819 00:41:34,010 --> 00:41:36,890 S2: that's sort of the whole idea. But yeah, we're. 820 00:41:36,890 --> 00:41:38,730 S3: Trying try we do, we do try. 821 00:41:38,730 --> 00:41:39,169 S2: Real life. 822 00:41:39,210 --> 00:41:41,609 S3: But that one was I, we did work really hard 823 00:41:41,610 --> 00:41:43,730 S3: on that one, trying to make it follow. 824 00:41:43,930 --> 00:41:46,370 S2: That science test right where he had been accused. And 825 00:41:46,370 --> 00:41:47,530 S2: then he said he was guilty. 826 00:41:47,570 --> 00:41:48,610 S3: Oh, right. Right. 827 00:41:49,010 --> 00:41:51,930 S2: You know, it's amazing how you write these things and, 828 00:41:51,930 --> 00:41:54,609 S2: and they're all fresh in your mind. And then somebody, Chris, 829 00:41:54,650 --> 00:41:56,090 S2: you bring it up and you go, ah. 830 00:41:58,050 --> 00:42:01,810 S1: No, it's that's real life. That's, that's real life. Uh, 831 00:42:01,810 --> 00:42:04,650 S1: like we were talking a little earlier. The other the 832 00:42:04,650 --> 00:42:07,930 S1: other question, and maybe there would be parents who would 833 00:42:07,930 --> 00:42:11,650 S1: have the same questions like, okay, so you're retelling these 834 00:42:11,650 --> 00:42:14,489 S1: stories as Patrick and you got the disclaimer, you know, 835 00:42:14,530 --> 00:42:17,089 S1: this is Patrick's view of what happened with Moses or 836 00:42:17,090 --> 00:42:20,850 S1: Joseph or whatever. David. Uh, but if you're a child 837 00:42:20,850 --> 00:42:24,770 S1: evangelism fellowship, you know, in your background, there's got to 838 00:42:24,770 --> 00:42:27,730 S1: be at some point a place where Patrick encounters the 839 00:42:27,730 --> 00:42:31,729 S1: wordless book and there's a gospel presentation in here. Yeah. 840 00:42:31,770 --> 00:42:35,010 S1: And I don't see that in, in the books. 841 00:42:35,330 --> 00:42:38,930 S3: Well, we I did draw that and book, um, uh, 842 00:42:38,969 --> 00:42:43,370 S3: for I did draw it because there was the opportunity to, 843 00:42:43,410 --> 00:42:45,810 S3: and I'm, I'm thinking about putting it on a web 844 00:42:45,850 --> 00:42:48,370 S3: on the website. I didn't include it in the book 845 00:42:48,370 --> 00:42:50,370 S3: I did. I have it all drawn out. He has 846 00:42:50,370 --> 00:42:52,810 S3: a conversation with his dad. His dad explains to him 847 00:42:52,810 --> 00:42:55,689 S3: the gospel. And I am thinking of putting that on 848 00:42:55,690 --> 00:42:59,690 S3: the website. Um, we just haven't got to that part yet, 849 00:42:59,690 --> 00:43:02,049 S3: but that would be in book four, his interaction with 850 00:43:02,050 --> 00:43:05,239 S3: Jesus We are absolutely about kids coming to know the 851 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,720 S3: Lord and being able to have an experience where they 852 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,600 S3: can jot down when they have that transformational relationship with God. 853 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,360 S2: So yes. So yeah. So the point being that we 854 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,040 S2: did end, we, we go through the gospel by him 855 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:23,319 S2: retelling the story from his, from his experience with watching, 856 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,359 S2: you know, Jesus on the via de la Rosa and 857 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,240 S2: so forth. Um, we actually did write, you know, a 858 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,680 S2: clear sort of gospel presentation, but we just felt like 859 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:33,560 S2: it didn't fit. 860 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:34,160 S3: Right. 861 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,040 S2: Into the book because of the genre. Yeah. And it 862 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,640 S2: didn't feel like, you know, it felt like we were forcing. 863 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,319 S2: And the one thing we. Liz and I said to 864 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,160 S2: us over and over and over, do not preach. 865 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:44,799 S3: We're not going. 866 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,120 S2: To preach, not preaching. 867 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:50,200 S3: We really are convicted that we just want to have 868 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,640 S3: this experience. And the kids want more. They want the 869 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:58,840 S3: real Jesus and not try and capsulize it in a something. 870 00:43:58,960 --> 00:43:59,400 S3: I love that. 871 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,989 S1: You know? Okay, my last question. Let's see if you 872 00:44:01,989 --> 00:44:04,150 S1: agree with me on this. And I love what you've 873 00:44:04,150 --> 00:44:08,230 S1: done with Patrick, with the different with the books, getting 874 00:44:08,230 --> 00:44:12,430 S1: younger kids into reading the Old Testament, seeing the purpose 875 00:44:12,430 --> 00:44:14,430 S1: for each of the books in the Old Testament and 876 00:44:14,430 --> 00:44:17,990 S1: the New Testament, bringing them through that. But I think 877 00:44:17,989 --> 00:44:21,830 S1: in order to whet the appetite of a child, to 878 00:44:21,870 --> 00:44:24,710 S1: get them to read the Bible, to see that there's 879 00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:29,750 S1: something important here, the best way to do that is, 880 00:44:29,790 --> 00:44:34,750 S1: is not with a gimmick or pictures or cartoons or anything. 881 00:44:35,070 --> 00:44:37,550 S1: The best way to do that is for them to 882 00:44:37,590 --> 00:44:40,350 S1: catch it from their parents, to. 883 00:44:40,390 --> 00:44:41,070 S3: See their. 884 00:44:41,110 --> 00:44:44,910 S1: Parents reading the Bible and trying to figure out how 885 00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:47,029 S1: in the world do I live this out in my 886 00:44:47,030 --> 00:44:47,630 S1: own life? 887 00:44:48,030 --> 00:44:48,910 S3: Absolutely. 888 00:44:48,950 --> 00:44:51,710 S2: I'll give you an example that Chris. So this past 889 00:44:51,710 --> 00:44:54,830 S2: weekend we were up at, um, in Sacramento where my 890 00:44:54,830 --> 00:44:57,469 S2: daughter and her, um, and her husband live and they 891 00:44:57,469 --> 00:45:01,020 S2: have three kids. And so I'm, it's early in the morning. I'm. 892 00:45:01,020 --> 00:45:03,260 S2: We're staying with them and I'm on the couch reading 893 00:45:03,260 --> 00:45:07,140 S2: my Bible and my grandson comes in. He just turned eight, 894 00:45:07,460 --> 00:45:09,620 S2: and he comes and snuggles up with me in the 895 00:45:09,620 --> 00:45:12,940 S2: couch and and I said, hey, let's keep reading. And 896 00:45:12,940 --> 00:45:15,620 S2: so he listened as I, I was reading the Bible 897 00:45:15,620 --> 00:45:18,860 S2: and I was, you know, stopping and explaining some things 898 00:45:18,860 --> 00:45:20,900 S2: and so forth. I mean, it was such a cool 899 00:45:20,900 --> 00:45:23,940 S2: moment for him just to come in. But but he sees, hey, 900 00:45:23,980 --> 00:45:27,060 S2: it was my grandfather reading the Bible and he comes 901 00:45:27,060 --> 00:45:27,620 S2: right over. 902 00:45:28,140 --> 00:45:32,460 S1: Isn't that great? Catch that, catch that. And and for 903 00:45:32,500 --> 00:45:35,779 S1: the I think there are adults who need to read 904 00:45:35,780 --> 00:45:39,540 S1: Patrick Wigglesworth because they don't know how the Bible fits together, 905 00:45:39,580 --> 00:45:40,219 S1: you know. So. 906 00:45:40,260 --> 00:45:40,660 S3: Right. 907 00:45:40,780 --> 00:45:44,460 S1: It'll work both ways. You two are. We shouldn't be 908 00:45:44,460 --> 00:45:46,900 S1: allowed to have this much fun on the radio. Liz. Jack, 909 00:45:46,900 --> 00:45:52,300 S1: thank you for your heart, for children, for your heart 910 00:45:52,300 --> 00:45:55,780 S1: and passion, for getting them into the Scripture in this 911 00:45:55,780 --> 00:46:00,460 S1: really creative, imaginative way. and you can't wait for folks 912 00:46:00,460 --> 00:46:03,460 S1: to to read book number four. They haven't read the 913 00:46:03,460 --> 00:46:06,100 S1: first three, read those, but get number four coming out 914 00:46:06,100 --> 00:46:10,700 S1: in February and then next October. The last book, number five, 915 00:46:11,020 --> 00:46:13,859 S1: that's a wrap comes out. And that takes you through 916 00:46:13,860 --> 00:46:20,300 S1: from Genesis to Revelation then. And Patrick Wigglesworth's bizarre adventures there. 917 00:46:20,340 --> 00:46:22,740 S1: God bless you, friends. Keep doing what you're doing. Okay. 918 00:46:23,219 --> 00:46:24,980 S3: Thank you so much. Thank you so much. 919 00:46:25,020 --> 00:46:26,020 S2: We appreciate it. 920 00:46:26,060 --> 00:46:28,380 S1: What a treat to have the Hagglers with us today 921 00:46:28,380 --> 00:46:30,420 S1: at the Radio Backyard Fence. Again, we have a link 922 00:46:30,420 --> 00:46:37,340 S1: for you right there@kris.org. Chris Fabry live dot ORG. Can't 923 00:46:37,340 --> 00:46:40,620 S1: wait to talk with pastor H b Charles tomorrow. You're 924 00:46:40,620 --> 00:46:44,380 S1: going to be encouraged by his look at the Psalms. 925 00:46:44,380 --> 00:46:46,820 S1: We'll do that right here on Chris Avery live production 926 00:46:46,820 --> 00:46:51,020 S1: of Moody Radio, a Ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks 927 00:46:51,020 --> 00:46:51,700 S1: for listening.