WEBVTT - From Broken Boy to Mended Man | Patrick Morley 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:05.440 Hiding inside. Every man is a little boy. He can 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:06.960 be healthy and strong. 0:00:07.480 --> 0:00:13.400 Or he can be afraid, angry and broken. He's never 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:17.079 really gotten over the wounds of his childhood. Is there 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:20.400 a way to break the cycle of pain? The cycle 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:24.000 of rage? Is there a way to go from. 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:27.200 Broken boy to mended man? 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.479 Maybe your parents were nice like mine. And so the 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:39.240 idea of forgiving them seems a little easier. But maybe 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:42.440 they were just mean people. Maybe they were toxic. But 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:46.160 the point is, is that healing is definitely possible. Men 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:47.280 are being healed. 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:55.200 Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:59.360 the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Today, 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:03.010 author of man in the mirror, Doctor Patrick Morley describes 0:01:03.010 --> 0:01:06.690 his healing journey from broken boy to mended man, and 0:01:06.690 --> 0:01:09.090 he'll give a positive plan for you or a man 0:01:09.090 --> 0:01:11.730 you know on how to heal from childhood wounds. 0:01:11.850 --> 0:01:14.850 And this is a summer best of broadcast. You can 0:01:14.850 --> 0:01:19.810 find our featured resource at the website Building Relationships. Our 0:01:19.810 --> 0:01:23.530 guest is Doctor Patrick Morley, author of From Broken Boy 0:01:23.530 --> 0:01:27.250 to Mended Man A Positive Plan to Heal Your Childhood 0:01:27.250 --> 0:01:30.450 Wounds and Break the Cycle. And it looks like I 0:01:30.450 --> 0:01:33.370 know the fella who wrote the foreword to this book. Gary. 0:01:33.410 --> 0:01:36.050 Why do you think this is such an important topic 0:01:36.050 --> 0:01:37.730 for such a time as this? 0:01:37.930 --> 0:01:41.009 Well, you know, Chris, there are a lot of wounded 0:01:41.010 --> 0:01:43.649 men out there. I'm just going to read you the 0:01:43.650 --> 0:01:46.130 first paragraph in this foreword that I wrote, because I 0:01:46.130 --> 0:01:49.370 really feel this is true. I say through my 40 0:01:49.370 --> 0:01:54.050 years of counseling men who have experienced childhood wounds, I've 0:01:54.050 --> 0:01:57.290 never read a book that I've found more helpful for 0:01:57.290 --> 0:02:00.140 those men than the book you hold in your hands. 0:02:00.420 --> 0:02:05.340 It is practical, understandable and doable, I think because it's 0:02:05.340 --> 0:02:08.820 written by a man who has walked the road. Uh, 0:02:08.820 --> 0:02:12.380 so I'm excited to have Doctor Morley with us today, 0:02:12.380 --> 0:02:15.900 because I think this is a topic that's gravely needed 0:02:15.900 --> 0:02:17.260 in our society today. 0:02:17.820 --> 0:02:19.940 Well, let's meet him. And we promised him we're going 0:02:19.980 --> 0:02:21.660 to call him Pat. But I'll say it one more time. 0:02:21.660 --> 0:02:24.739 Doctor Patrick Morley is founder of man in the mirror, 0:02:25.100 --> 0:02:28.940 a global ministry impacting thousands of churches, millions of men. 0:02:29.060 --> 0:02:31.980 Motivated by his own search for meaning and purpose. He 0:02:31.980 --> 0:02:35.540 started a Bible study with a handful of guys in 1986. 0:02:35.780 --> 0:02:39.060 And that study is still going. It now reaches men 0:02:39.060 --> 0:02:42.620 around the world every week. He's written some 23 books, 0:02:42.620 --> 0:02:45.139 including The Man in the mirror, which was named one 0:02:45.139 --> 0:02:49.020 of the 100 most influential Christian books of the 20th century. 0:02:49.300 --> 0:02:52.540 And our featured resource today, as I said at Building Relationships, 0:02:53.340 --> 0:02:57.380 is from Broken boy to Mended Man. Just go to 0:02:57.419 --> 0:02:58.630 building relationships. 0:03:00.430 --> 0:03:03.109 Well, Doctor Morley, welcome to building relationships. 0:03:03.710 --> 0:03:06.590 Well, Doctor Chapman, thank you for having me. It's such 0:03:06.630 --> 0:03:10.910 an honor. I, I just cannot get over the fact 0:03:10.910 --> 0:03:14.510 that I'm able to actually be on your program. Uh, 0:03:14.550 --> 0:03:18.430 you've been a hero of mine forever. And so thank 0:03:18.430 --> 0:03:23.070 you again for the gracious words of that forward to. 0:03:23.110 --> 0:03:26.190 In fact, after you read it, I was thinking, well, 0:03:26.190 --> 0:03:27.590 we could wrap it up right now. 0:03:30.470 --> 0:03:33.389 Well, I've given my opinion when the when the program's over, 0:03:33.430 --> 0:03:35.190 they're going to have their own opinion. Okay. 0:03:36.950 --> 0:03:38.150 True enough, true enough. 0:03:38.510 --> 0:03:42.150 As we start, uh, let's talk this a little bit 0:03:42.150 --> 0:03:45.870 about the global impact of the man in the mirror 0:03:46.110 --> 0:03:48.270 and how that all got started. Give us a little 0:03:48.270 --> 0:03:50.910 background on that and your perception of how God has 0:03:50.910 --> 0:03:51.550 used that. 0:03:52.270 --> 0:03:55.270 Well, it's interesting because my background is business. I was 0:03:55.310 --> 0:03:59.480 a real estate developer, My first life philosophy was that 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.120 money will solve my problems and success will make me happy. 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.200 I quit high school in the middle of my senior year, 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.960 so there were some problems at home. Nice, very nice parents, 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:14.400 but very passive and permissive. And so, um, I was 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:16.920 a broken boy. I didn't understand any of that at 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:19.960 the time. I really just felt like I, and I, 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:23.080 pretty much from about 8 or 9 years old, had 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:25.760 the sense of feeling like I was on my own 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.680 to figure out life. Uh, and I became very successful 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:35.160 in business. You know, broken boys tend to become especially irresponsible, 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:38.880 or they become the responsible son, uh, depending on whether 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:40.520 they want to prove that their parents were right or 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:44.159 wrong about them. And so I became the responsible son, 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:47.080 became quite successful. And I was just sitting around one 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:49.680 day I said, wow, there's just got to be more 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:52.520 to life than this. It just there just has to be. 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:54.760 And so that's when I started the Bible study that 0:04:54.760 --> 0:05:00.010 Chris referenced and started teaching men about the problems that 0:05:00.010 --> 0:05:04.290 we face. And it wasn't until quite some time later, though, 0:05:04.290 --> 0:05:08.730 that I actually had the revelation, the epiphany, that the 0:05:08.730 --> 0:05:12.890 reason that I was struggling so much personally with all 0:05:12.890 --> 0:05:14.409 the demons that came in the middle of the night, 0:05:14.410 --> 0:05:17.890 was because of childhood wounds that had never really been 0:05:17.890 --> 0:05:19.050 properly processed. 0:05:19.850 --> 0:05:21.969 Well, no question about it. That book made in the 0:05:21.970 --> 0:05:24.570 mirror tremendously helpful to a lot of people, and I 0:05:24.570 --> 0:05:27.849 think this book is going to be the same. You 0:05:27.850 --> 0:05:33.170 say there's an epidemic of lonely, hurting men carrying unresolved pain. 0:05:34.010 --> 0:05:36.610 How do you know that's true? And what does that 0:05:36.610 --> 0:05:37.570 look like today? 0:05:38.690 --> 0:05:43.089 Well, Gary, my favorite thing to do, uh, you know, 0:05:43.170 --> 0:05:45.690 we write books, we teach churches. You know, we do 0:05:45.690 --> 0:05:48.529 all these different things. But my number one favorite thing 0:05:48.570 --> 0:05:50.410 to do is to meet with men one on one. 0:05:50.410 --> 0:05:53.850 And I've literally met with thousands of men one on 0:05:53.890 --> 0:05:56.979 one to hear their stories. And, you know, for a 0:05:56.980 --> 0:05:58.990 period of, you know, 40 years meeting with 2 or 0:05:58.990 --> 0:06:01.780 3 guys a week like that, it adds up. And 0:06:01.779 --> 0:06:04.460 so when men try to put into words what they 0:06:04.460 --> 0:06:08.380 feel like is holding them back, what's keeping them from 0:06:08.380 --> 0:06:12.779 feeling fully alive? And if they're a believer, fully alive 0:06:12.779 --> 0:06:16.659 in Jesus, they will inevitably mention one or more seven things. 0:06:16.700 --> 0:06:19.420 You know, I just feel like I'm in this alone. 0:06:20.180 --> 0:06:25.260 I don't feel like God cares about me personally. Not really. 0:06:26.180 --> 0:06:28.460 My life doesn't feel like it has a purpose. It 0:06:28.460 --> 0:06:31.979 feels random. I have these destructive behaviors. They keep dragging 0:06:31.980 --> 0:06:38.220 me back down. My soul feels dry. My most important relationships, 0:06:38.220 --> 0:06:40.700 they're not healthy. And then finally, I just don't feel 0:06:40.700 --> 0:06:42.900 like I'm doing anything that's going to make a difference 0:06:42.900 --> 0:06:46.220 and leave the world a better place. I kind of 0:06:46.260 --> 0:06:50.419 my organizing paradigm is, is that what do men want 0:06:50.460 --> 0:06:53.460 that they need, that I have to offer? And so when, 0:06:53.460 --> 0:06:56.270 since I am a broken boy, and since I have 0:06:56.270 --> 0:06:59.470 a theological education and a doctorate degree and all these 0:06:59.470 --> 0:07:02.390 different things, and I've studied this and I've been through 0:07:02.390 --> 0:07:06.830 it personally, I've just really felt a calling to go 0:07:06.870 --> 0:07:11.150 ahead and put this all out there. And it's not 0:07:11.150 --> 0:07:15.670 the normal thing that someone would do, but I just 0:07:15.670 --> 0:07:17.430 felt like called by God that it was something I 0:07:17.430 --> 0:07:18.190 was supposed to do. 0:07:19.150 --> 0:07:22.470 Well, Pat, this is your 23rd book, but it took 0:07:22.470 --> 0:07:26.750 you six years before deciding to move ahead and write it. 0:07:27.310 --> 0:07:28.630 What took so long? 0:07:29.590 --> 0:07:34.990 Well, net net, my mom and dad are were really 0:07:34.990 --> 0:07:37.870 nice people, and I believe that they wanted to do 0:07:37.870 --> 0:07:43.110 the right things. Uh, but they were never trained, equipped 0:07:43.110 --> 0:07:49.550 or discipled to be godly parents. My dad was abandoned 0:07:49.550 --> 0:07:52.670 when he was two years of age, and so he 0:07:52.710 --> 0:07:56.400 never felt the scratch of his father's whiskers. He never 0:07:56.400 --> 0:08:00.440 heard a father reading him a bedtime story. He never 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.680 tossed a ball in the backyard. He never had his 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:07.160 hair tussled, never wrestled on the living room floor with 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:09.040 his dad, never heard a truck door shut in the 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.360 driveway at the end of a day, signaling that his 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.280 dad was about to re-enter the family orbit. And so 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:17.600 basically what it meant to be a man, a husband 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.960 and a father was unexampled to him. And so he 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.880 was left to guess at how to be a dad 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.680 to me and a husband to my mom. And, and, uh, 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.480 so net of all that is that he did the 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:35.520 best he could, but there was this intergenerational dysfunction that 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:39.120 got transmitted to him. He never was able to do 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:41.120 anything about that, so I didn't want to. So the 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:43.719 answer to the question is I and my mom and 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:46.560 dad and I, we did reconcile. And and for the 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:49.640 last half, uh, for the second half of my life 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:51.720 and the last part of their life, we had a 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:57.330 very loving and hugging, affectionate relationship that we did not 0:08:57.330 --> 0:09:00.250 have for the first 35 years of my life. So 0:09:00.250 --> 0:09:01.890 I didn't want to throw them under the bus, and 0:09:01.890 --> 0:09:04.170 it just took me six years to figure to to 0:09:04.210 --> 0:09:09.449 to noodle around to figure out how I could honor them. Uh, 0:09:09.450 --> 0:09:12.530 but yet still tell the true story. And so I 0:09:12.530 --> 0:09:14.690 finally got it. Got it all sorted out in my head. 0:09:14.690 --> 0:09:18.089 But it took like six years to do that. And, uh, yeah, 0:09:18.090 --> 0:09:19.410 that's the answer to the question. 0:09:19.450 --> 0:09:22.569 I can understand that. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't want 0:09:22.570 --> 0:09:25.489 to put them down. And yet you want to be honest. 0:09:25.530 --> 0:09:29.810 And when did you personally begin to realize that your, 0:09:29.809 --> 0:09:32.690 your childhood wounds and how they had impacted you? 0:09:33.770 --> 0:09:36.650 Well, there are kind of two answers to that question. Um, 0:09:36.730 --> 0:09:39.809 I when I left home, I washed my hands and 0:09:39.809 --> 0:09:43.010 my parents, I joined the Army. And, um, if it 0:09:43.010 --> 0:09:45.250 wasn't for my wife, I probably would have had no 0:09:45.250 --> 0:09:48.090 contact at all. But I became a follower of Jesus 0:09:48.090 --> 0:09:51.290 through the influence of my wife at the age of 24, 0:09:51.290 --> 0:09:55.179 when I was 25 years of age, my parents invited 0:09:55.179 --> 0:09:58.540 us to come out to their home for dinner. My 0:09:58.540 --> 0:10:01.660 brother had been off at war. The family had not 0:10:01.660 --> 0:10:05.740 been together for several years. It was Thanksgiving and so 0:10:05.780 --> 0:10:07.820 my mom and dad were there. My three younger brothers, 0:10:07.820 --> 0:10:11.900 my new wife and myself. And we were that family 0:10:11.900 --> 0:10:13.940 that would say grace, but we would say, God is good, 0:10:13.940 --> 0:10:15.780 God is great, and we thank you for this food. Amen. 0:10:15.820 --> 0:10:17.500 As quickly as we could, you know, and so on 0:10:17.500 --> 0:10:19.580 this particular day, though, my dad said, I'd like to 0:10:19.620 --> 0:10:24.140 pray today. And so we bowed our heads and he said, Lord, 0:10:24.940 --> 0:10:28.540 mom and I would just like to say thank you. 0:10:28.900 --> 0:10:32.699 And then he started blubbering and he excused himself and 0:10:32.700 --> 0:10:34.940 went into the master bedroom. I went in after him. 0:10:34.940 --> 0:10:37.579 I said, dad, dad, are you all right? What's the matter? 0:10:37.620 --> 0:10:39.940 He said, no, I'm okay. I just need a minute. 0:10:40.300 --> 0:10:41.980 And I said, well, what's going on? He said, well, 0:10:41.980 --> 0:10:44.459 it's just that your mother and I never thought that 0:10:44.460 --> 0:10:46.500 we would ever see our four boys together in the 0:10:46.500 --> 0:10:51.870 same room again. And, uh, something softened in me that day, 0:10:52.110 --> 0:10:54.830 and because I was a new Christian and starting to grow, 0:10:54.870 --> 0:10:58.590 I just chose to unilaterally forgive my mother and father 0:10:58.590 --> 0:11:01.230 that day for everything that had gone before. And it 0:11:01.230 --> 0:11:06.390 was real. Now, I didn't have the I didn't know 0:11:06.390 --> 0:11:09.270 what I was doing okay at the time, but that 0:11:09.270 --> 0:11:13.070 began did begin a process that, uh, took me another 0:11:13.070 --> 0:11:16.870 28 years to come, full circle. And in fact, that's 0:11:16.870 --> 0:11:19.030 why I wanted to write the book, because I do 0:11:19.190 --> 0:11:21.510 now know that a man can do in a few 0:11:21.510 --> 0:11:24.589 months what took me several decades to do, if he 0:11:24.590 --> 0:11:27.430 will apply himself and actually do this book, not just 0:11:27.429 --> 0:11:28.550 but actually do the book. 0:11:29.230 --> 0:11:33.390 This is a summer best of Building Relationships broadcast. 0:11:33.390 --> 0:11:37.390 For more ways to strengthen your relationships, go to Building Relationships. 0:11:38.750 --> 0:11:42.390 You'll see our featured resource by Doctor Patrick Morley. From 0:11:42.390 --> 0:11:45.949 Broken Boy to Mended Man, a positive plan to heal 0:11:45.950 --> 0:11:50.000 your childhood wounds and break the cycle. Find out more 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:51.319 at building relationships. 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.800 Well, Pat, as you've described already, you were one of 0:11:55.800 --> 0:12:00.079 those herding men. Do you really think it's possible for 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:04.640 men to go from broken to mended, which is really 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:06.080 kind of the theme of the book? 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.000 Yes. And the answer is absolutely yes. In fact, you know, 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.199 the book's only been out a little while, so it's September, 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.280 but it's came out in March, so not that long. 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.880 But I'm getting I'm getting correspondence like every single day 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.320 from from men. I got a text last night from 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:27.400 a guy who had mentioned, uh, the, the book to 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.000 to a man. He got it. He's a pastor. He 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.479 got it. He he was reading the book on an airplane, 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.480 and he was crying because he was identifying with everything 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:37.680 that was being said. He had to stop reading the 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:41.040 book on the airplane and finished it when he got home. 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:46.400 And it's had a tremendous impact because he's, for the 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:50.290 first time able to understand all of these emotions or 0:12:50.290 --> 0:12:53.729 where these emotions are coming from that have always been inexplicable. 0:12:53.730 --> 0:12:56.010 And that was my case, too, as a as a 0:12:56.010 --> 0:13:00.530 broken boy. I talk about nine characteristics of broken boys 0:13:00.690 --> 0:13:03.170 in the book. Just the first one is you have 0:13:03.170 --> 0:13:05.730 a hard time believing that people really care about you. 0:13:06.090 --> 0:13:09.689 And so if you have experienced a sense of abandonment, 0:13:09.690 --> 0:13:12.050 or if your parents are always angry and demanding, or 0:13:12.050 --> 0:13:17.209 if they were overly permissive or even maybe enabling parents, 0:13:17.650 --> 0:13:21.970 then there's a good chance that you struggle with trusting 0:13:21.970 --> 0:13:25.530 people or a sense of feeling abandoned. That's certainly true 0:13:25.530 --> 0:13:29.809 of me. Another characteristic is you are easily angered. I 0:13:29.809 --> 0:13:33.290 never lost my temper. Not one time did I ever 0:13:33.290 --> 0:13:37.490 lose my temper at the office. But what I would do. 0:13:37.490 --> 0:13:40.090 Because there the stakes are so high, you know, in 0:13:40.090 --> 0:13:43.970 terms of your prestige, getting what you want done in 0:13:43.970 --> 0:13:46.610 terms of projects or sales and so forth, or even 0:13:46.809 --> 0:13:50.220 job security itself could be at risk. So I would 0:13:50.260 --> 0:13:52.300 bottle it up and bring it home, and then some 0:13:52.300 --> 0:13:55.980 little thing would set me off and boom. Just like that. Uh, 0:13:56.179 --> 0:13:59.460 hair trigger and, uh, but I had no idea what 0:13:59.460 --> 0:14:03.460 was going on. You see? Yeah. And so, uh, when 0:14:03.460 --> 0:14:08.220 this really, uh, got sorted out is when my mother 0:14:08.220 --> 0:14:12.340 died at the age of 53. And I didn't feel anything. 0:14:12.660 --> 0:14:17.300 I didn't cry. I wasn't sad. I didn't miss her. 0:14:17.940 --> 0:14:20.500 And I thought that was odd. So I made an 0:14:20.500 --> 0:14:23.940 appointment with a counselor, and she helped me to put 0:14:23.940 --> 0:14:26.780 into words the father and mother wounds that I had 0:14:26.780 --> 0:14:32.020 never been able to articulate. It was from that point forward, 0:14:32.340 --> 0:14:34.780 from the age of 53 on, that I've spent a 0:14:34.780 --> 0:14:37.940 couple of decades now studying this and and working with 0:14:37.980 --> 0:14:43.300 men on this issue. And I know that men can 0:14:43.580 --> 0:14:49.070 be mended, can be healed Because healing is all about pain, 0:14:49.350 --> 0:14:54.150 and pain can be identified. It can be faced. It 0:14:54.150 --> 0:14:58.510 can be grieved. Wounds that have been made against us. 0:14:58.510 --> 0:15:01.350 By the way. These wounds. These are things that they're 0:15:01.350 --> 0:15:03.750 not your fault. If you're listening today and you have 0:15:04.230 --> 0:15:07.070 childhood wounds, it's not your fault. But you're really the 0:15:07.070 --> 0:15:10.390 only one that can do anything about it now. But 0:15:10.390 --> 0:15:13.630 you can get to a place no matter how toxic. 0:15:13.750 --> 0:15:16.870 I know this sounds crazy. Maybe your parents were nice 0:15:16.870 --> 0:15:19.630 like mine, and so the idea of forgiving them seems 0:15:19.630 --> 0:15:22.390 a little easier. But maybe they were just mean people. 0:15:22.390 --> 0:15:25.390 Maybe they were toxic. Maybe they still are. Maybe when 0:15:25.390 --> 0:15:28.150 you invite them over to dinner, they're making snide remarks 0:15:28.350 --> 0:15:31.830 about your wife, and they're bossing your children around. And 0:15:31.830 --> 0:15:33.870 maybe you do need to set up some boundaries. And 0:15:33.870 --> 0:15:36.350 I'm showing you how to do that in the book 0:15:36.350 --> 0:15:40.150 as well. But the point is, is that healing is 0:15:40.150 --> 0:15:42.950 definitely possible. Men are being healed. 0:15:43.630 --> 0:15:47.119 Let's go back to your own childhood hood again, Pat, 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.000 and describe a little more fully. What was it like? 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:52.160 I mean, you say your parents were good parents, but 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.080 what were the things that were either missing there or 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:56.320 what was going on there? 0:15:57.440 --> 0:15:58.960 Well, I would say that they were. 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:04.320 Nice parents in terms of, uh, good parents. They really 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:09.080 had never been trained. So if you're listening today and 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:15.200 you could say my parents were encouraging or my parents 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:18.920 were affirming, then that would be a sign that you 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:21.520 had had, you know, good parenting. But what if you 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:26.120 can't say that? Uh, in the book, I identify seven 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:29.440 negative parenting styles, and I'll tell you mine in a moment. 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.760 But you might say, if you can't say that they 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:36.400 were encouraging, you might say, well, my parents were passive 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:42.440 or my parents were absent. That could be death, divorce, workaholism, 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:47.930 you know, or addictions. Predictions. My parents were permissive, you know, 0:16:48.210 --> 0:16:50.330 like just let you have the run of the place 0:16:50.330 --> 0:16:53.970 and didn't have enough structure. Or maybe you would say 0:16:53.970 --> 0:16:57.490 my parents were enabling, and that means, you know, all 0:16:57.490 --> 0:17:01.290 parents are supposed to help their children, but enabling is 0:17:01.730 --> 0:17:04.449 doing for children things that they should or could be 0:17:04.450 --> 0:17:07.210 doing for themselves, or maybe not holding them responsible when 0:17:07.210 --> 0:17:10.450 they do something they shouldn't do. Or maybe you might 0:17:10.450 --> 0:17:15.609 say my parents were, um, demanding. Uh, or my parents 0:17:15.609 --> 0:17:19.130 were angry. I had a guy put a fence in 0:17:19.130 --> 0:17:21.889 our yard here a little while ago, and he said, 0:17:21.890 --> 0:17:24.050 I felt like I grew up in Auschwitz. He said, 0:17:24.250 --> 0:17:26.930 just I had to walk around on eggshells. So if 0:17:26.970 --> 0:17:29.290 you grew up in an angry home, that's probably, you know, 0:17:29.330 --> 0:17:31.729 maybe if you played at your friend's house all the 0:17:31.730 --> 0:17:34.090 time instead of your own home, that might be the case. 0:17:34.090 --> 0:17:37.850 Or my parents were belittling as the seventh negative parenting style. 0:17:38.250 --> 0:17:42.130 And this is your parents making fun of you, and 0:17:42.170 --> 0:17:46.100 sometimes in public shaming you for body parts, things like this. 0:17:46.619 --> 0:17:50.420 These things are so destructive and demeaning in my own case. 0:17:51.020 --> 0:17:55.580 My parents were very passive because they had never been 0:17:55.619 --> 0:17:58.100 equipped to train, as I said earlier. And then secondly, 0:17:58.820 --> 0:18:02.379 they were very permissive. I pretty much could do whatever 0:18:02.380 --> 0:18:06.900 I wanted to do. And so I used that permission 0:18:06.900 --> 0:18:09.620 to get into a lot of trouble, as some of 0:18:09.619 --> 0:18:12.700 our listeners probably can relate to as well. And what 0:18:12.700 --> 0:18:15.419 made my childhood so confusing is that my parents were 0:18:15.420 --> 0:18:19.620 really nice people. They really were. But as my counselor 0:18:19.619 --> 0:18:23.820 pointed out, that doesn't mean that they were good parents 0:18:24.300 --> 0:18:26.980 just because they were nice people. She said that I 0:18:26.980 --> 0:18:33.260 think that you have been, uh, abandoned. Gross abandonment. Possibly 0:18:33.260 --> 0:18:35.820 even abused. And when she said that, I went ballistic, 0:18:35.820 --> 0:18:39.020 to be honest. And I began defending my mom and dad. 0:18:39.020 --> 0:18:42.060 But over a period of eight sessions, it only took 0:18:42.060 --> 0:18:45.590 eight Eight sessions. She was able to help me really 0:18:45.590 --> 0:18:50.110 understand and look at things in in a more professional 0:18:50.109 --> 0:18:52.550 way and really understand what had been happening in my 0:18:52.590 --> 0:18:53.510 in my family. 0:18:54.230 --> 0:18:58.190 Now, the book you have divided into three parts. So 0:18:58.230 --> 0:19:01.070 tell us what those three parts are and why you 0:19:01.109 --> 0:19:02.750 structured the book in that manner? 0:19:02.790 --> 0:19:07.510 Yeah. So, Gary, I'm all about giving men the practical 0:19:07.510 --> 0:19:10.790 help they need, the practical help that they've been looking 0:19:10.790 --> 0:19:16.350 for and very much focused on solutions, not problems. But 0:19:16.350 --> 0:19:19.869 here's the here's the situation. If you're trying to solve 0:19:19.869 --> 0:19:23.630 the wrong problem, you can only succeed by accident. And 0:19:23.630 --> 0:19:26.869 so I see this all the time. Men don't really 0:19:26.869 --> 0:19:29.390 understand what the problem is. And so the first part 0:19:29.390 --> 0:19:31.230 of the book, the arc of this book. Part one 0:19:31.230 --> 0:19:36.150 is unraveling. What happened to you? Really understanding childhood wounds, 0:19:36.390 --> 0:19:40.070 what you should have gotten the right cocktail of love, structure, 0:19:40.070 --> 0:19:43.560 roots and wings. And when that goes awry, you end 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.160 up with one of these seven negative parenting styles that 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:50.560 I mentioned. And then also that evolves into adult behavior 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:56.240 and nine different characteristics of adult children with unprocessed childhood wounds. 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.920 And so in part one, just really helping a man 0:19:59.920 --> 0:20:03.880 understand how he got to the place where he is, 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:07.359 you know, just a sidebar in in our Christian world, 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:11.760 it's a normal process is, is that we help someone 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.760 become a follower of Jesus and get forgiveness for sins 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:19.080 and salvation. And then we begin to help them, equip 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:23.440 them and disciple them to move forward. But what I've 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:26.120 discovered in many people, and I know you have too, 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:30.960 is that if you don't process the problems that got 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:34.359 you into the dire situation that made you want to 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:37.000 turn to Jesus in the first place, that doesn't mean 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:40.640 those problems go away. They don't just disappear. So you 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:43.250 have to work through them. And so the purpose of, 0:20:43.250 --> 0:20:46.250 of this second part of the book is to show 0:20:46.250 --> 0:20:50.650 men a biblical healing process that's been around for thousands 0:20:50.650 --> 0:20:56.290 of years. And there's seven different stages of this. And 0:20:56.290 --> 0:21:00.610 everybody's different. And the stages are not necessarily one right 0:21:00.609 --> 0:21:04.490 after another and sometimes. So like getting out of denial 0:21:04.490 --> 0:21:08.650 and facing the truth, that's one of the stages. Grieving 0:21:08.650 --> 0:21:11.370 what the childhood that you should have had that you 0:21:11.369 --> 0:21:14.890 deserved to have. And and actually come to a place 0:21:14.890 --> 0:21:18.210 where you believe that you did deserve to have a 0:21:18.210 --> 0:21:20.930 different childhood. You know, one of the problems that men 0:21:20.970 --> 0:21:23.890 who grow up with childhood wounds is that they feel 0:21:23.890 --> 0:21:27.130 like they deserved what they got. In some cases, not 0:21:27.130 --> 0:21:30.210 all cases. So anyway, the second part of the book 0:21:30.210 --> 0:21:34.930 then is about that healing process. So understanding what happened, 0:21:35.130 --> 0:21:37.410 healing it. And then the third part of the book 0:21:37.450 --> 0:21:40.740 is about breaking the cycle for the next generation, for 0:21:40.740 --> 0:21:44.379 your wife, if you're married or or if you ever 0:21:44.380 --> 0:21:46.700 do get married, and your children if you have them 0:21:46.740 --> 0:21:49.380 or ever do have them. And then also for your 0:21:49.380 --> 0:21:52.820 friends and colleagues and other people around you that may 0:21:52.820 --> 0:21:57.060 also be struggling with, uh, these kinds of childhood wounds. 0:21:57.580 --> 0:22:00.340 So that's it. The three phases of the book. 0:22:01.340 --> 0:22:04.619 So describe, like, the kind of damage that a man 0:22:04.619 --> 0:22:07.939 carries from childhood into adulthood. I don't mean you can 0:22:07.940 --> 0:22:11.020 go into everything, but just give us an example of 0:22:11.060 --> 0:22:12.180 that kind of thing. 0:22:12.700 --> 0:22:16.379 Yeah. Well, one of the characteristics is that you are 0:22:16.420 --> 0:22:22.100 oversensitive and frequently misread what people intend. You're prickly. You 0:22:22.100 --> 0:22:25.740 take things the wrong way. I have a friend. Uh, 0:22:25.740 --> 0:22:29.379 he's doing better now, but when he had four young children, 0:22:29.380 --> 0:22:32.560 he would walk into the the family room, and 15 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:37.380 minutes later, he'd be sitting by himself. He was so oversensitive. 0:22:37.420 --> 0:22:39.669 He took everything the wrong way. And then he made 0:22:39.670 --> 0:22:42.830 these prickly remarks. Even his own family didn't want to 0:22:42.830 --> 0:22:45.150 be around them. So that would be one of the 0:22:45.190 --> 0:22:47.310 one of the ways. And then, of course, uh, you know, 0:22:47.350 --> 0:22:54.669 anger is, uh, a very profound response mechanism for men 0:22:54.710 --> 0:22:58.909 who have childhood wounds that have not been addressed. It's 0:22:58.910 --> 0:23:03.750 just a it's a way of self-defense, if you will. Yeah. 0:23:03.790 --> 0:23:08.990 Just simply not knowing how to process conflict. And then 0:23:08.990 --> 0:23:14.270 also having had childhood memories of their parents, uh, being 0:23:14.310 --> 0:23:17.510 angry with them and lose their temper with their children. 0:23:17.510 --> 0:23:20.910 So they, they themselves grow up with this bottled up anger, 0:23:20.910 --> 0:23:22.709 and then they pass it on to everybody else. 0:23:23.150 --> 0:23:27.430 Yeah. What steps do you teach someone to help them 0:23:27.430 --> 0:23:32.750 shift their perspective to being compassionate toward their parents, instead 0:23:32.750 --> 0:23:36.190 of just blaming them and being angry with them for 0:23:36.190 --> 0:23:37.590 the bad things that happened? 0:23:38.080 --> 0:23:43.800 One important concept that Jesus teaches is the concept of 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:49.240 unilateral forgiveness. In the Lord's Prayer, Jesus said, forgive us 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:53.560 our sins as we forgive those who have sinned against us. 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:56.639 When they humble themselves and come to us in bowed 0:23:56.640 --> 0:24:00.600 need and beg for forgiveness. It doesn't say that. It 0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:03.919 just says, forgive us our sins as we forgive those 0:24:03.920 --> 0:24:07.440 who have sinned against us. Parenting is a. It's a 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:13.159 privilege and a sacred responsibility to give children the right 0:24:13.200 --> 0:24:18.560 cocktail of love. Structure. Roots and wings. And to give 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:22.520 them the emotional and relational and the spiritual. It's not 0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:24.479 just putting a roof over the head. Of course, we 0:24:24.480 --> 0:24:27.760 all know this, but it is protection. In fact, the 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:31.520 essence of manhood is to identify and protect sacred things. 0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:35.439 There's nothing more sacred that needs protecting than a man's family. 0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:39.290 Well, Pat, let's talk to the man who sees what 0:24:39.290 --> 0:24:43.250 you're saying. They understand what you're talking about, but they 0:24:43.250 --> 0:24:45.770 don't have a clue as to what to do. That 0:24:45.770 --> 0:24:48.730 is where to begin. So what's a first step in 0:24:48.730 --> 0:24:51.090 breaking destructive family cycles? 0:24:51.530 --> 0:24:56.370 Yeah. Here's the big picture. If you're listening and you've 0:24:56.410 --> 0:24:59.970 identified with anything that we've been talking about here today 0:25:00.730 --> 0:25:04.330 and you maybe are suspicious, maybe you know, that you 0:25:04.330 --> 0:25:09.290 have childhood wounds that you've never processed, maybe you're just 0:25:09.290 --> 0:25:11.970 suspicious that that might be the case, or maybe you've 0:25:11.970 --> 0:25:15.530 been in a deep state of denial. We all compartmentalize 0:25:15.530 --> 0:25:19.850 bad thoughts, but denial is something different. It's emotional amnesia. 0:25:19.850 --> 0:25:24.090 We literally block things out and literally cannot remember them. 0:25:24.690 --> 0:25:27.930 But now your interest has been piqued a little bit. 0:25:27.930 --> 0:25:30.930 So the first question to ask is, I would like 0:25:30.930 --> 0:25:33.090 you to picture yourself 5 or 10 years down the 0:25:33.090 --> 0:25:37.620 road and then look at the behaviors, the unwanted behaviors 0:25:37.619 --> 0:25:40.900 that you have right now, or the fears and anxieties 0:25:40.900 --> 0:25:43.300 that you'd like to get rid of right now. And 0:25:43.300 --> 0:25:46.740 ask yourself what will be different 5 or 10 years 0:25:46.740 --> 0:25:50.660 from now, unless you take some action to do something 0:25:50.660 --> 0:25:53.940 about them? That's why I wrote this book. I wrote 0:25:53.940 --> 0:25:57.300 it for you. I'm. I'm known for personal vulnerability, but 0:25:57.300 --> 0:26:01.380 I'm also known for giving men practical resources. And that's 0:26:01.380 --> 0:26:08.300 why the book is filled with practical exercises, reflections, discussion, 0:26:08.300 --> 0:26:10.940 and reflection questions at the end of each chapter. So 0:26:10.940 --> 0:26:13.300 you can do that by yourself or in a small group. 0:26:13.619 --> 0:26:18.260 There are several writing exercises to help you put down 0:26:18.260 --> 0:26:22.340 on paper. Some thoughts to help you clarify your own 0:26:22.380 --> 0:26:26.940 thinking about what happened to you, and then some positive 0:26:26.980 --> 0:26:29.860 steps that you can take with your own wife and 0:26:29.859 --> 0:26:33.060 your own children, and with your friends to be that 0:26:33.060 --> 0:26:35.990 cycle breaker, to be that that guy, that the other 0:26:35.990 --> 0:26:38.510 men hope that they can become someday too. 0:26:39.750 --> 0:26:42.310 So I hear you saying, the first of all, you identify, 0:26:42.710 --> 0:26:44.270 you know, what are you going to be like in 0:26:44.270 --> 0:26:48.109 ten years if you don't deal with some of this stuff? Yeah. 0:26:48.150 --> 0:26:51.510 And then you decide I'm going to take some steps. 0:26:51.830 --> 0:26:54.390 And when you do, this book is going to be 0:26:54.390 --> 0:26:57.189 a guideline for you. That's that's what I see. And 0:26:57.190 --> 0:26:58.590 that's what I hear you saying. Right. 0:26:58.630 --> 0:27:01.750 That that's it. That's it. And I'm also telling men 0:27:01.750 --> 0:27:04.510 and women, women are reading the book too. So this 0:27:04.510 --> 0:27:08.590 is my 23rd book. And usually I know that when 0:27:08.590 --> 0:27:11.870 I do an interview like this, most people are not 0:27:11.869 --> 0:27:14.270 going to go out and buy the book. So I 0:27:14.270 --> 0:27:19.629 always try to give value in the interview. So this 0:27:19.630 --> 0:27:22.189 is something that they can take away because even if 0:27:22.190 --> 0:27:25.310 they don't end up with with the book. But guys, 0:27:25.310 --> 0:27:28.550 this is different. This is you can't just listen to 0:27:28.590 --> 0:27:32.070 this interview today and get what you need to heal 0:27:32.070 --> 0:27:35.080 your childhood wounds. In fact, you're not going to be 0:27:35.119 --> 0:27:37.920 able to get enough to heal your childhood wounds just 0:27:37.920 --> 0:27:42.560 by reading the book and getting the intellectual knowledge about it. 0:27:42.840 --> 0:27:45.240 I'm telling men and women, this is not a book 0:27:45.240 --> 0:27:48.520 that you read. This is a book you do. You 0:27:48.520 --> 0:27:51.359 have to do the book. But if you will do 0:27:51.359 --> 0:27:55.560 the book, God will show up. It may be that 0:27:55.560 --> 0:27:58.560 you go all the way to healing. If if your 0:27:58.560 --> 0:28:00.720 childhood wounds have been on the more mild side, you 0:28:00.720 --> 0:28:03.800 might go all the way to healing, or you might 0:28:03.800 --> 0:28:09.400 go a certain distance down the road. It might incite 0:28:09.400 --> 0:28:12.919 you or encourage you or and I do this in 0:28:12.920 --> 0:28:16.080 the book. Encourage you if you do feel like you 0:28:16.080 --> 0:28:19.080 need to get professional help is to seek out a counselor. 0:28:19.119 --> 0:28:21.280 In fact, even have a link on how to find 0:28:21.280 --> 0:28:23.080 a counselor in the book. So it's a just it's 0:28:23.080 --> 0:28:25.640 a book filled with practical, practical help. 0:28:26.440 --> 0:28:30.359 Now, Pat, you alluded to the spouse of a man, 0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:33.970 you know, who has the these these pains. What do 0:28:33.970 --> 0:28:37.170 you say to to that wife who's caught in this 0:28:37.170 --> 0:28:41.010 kind of cycle? How does a woman married to a 0:28:41.010 --> 0:28:45.010 wounded man become an instrument of love and help for him? 0:28:45.570 --> 0:28:50.010 Hmm. So it's not a simple answer in one sense, 0:28:50.010 --> 0:28:52.570 but it is in another. I mean, because the woman 0:28:52.570 --> 0:28:56.890 herself might be a broken woman. You see a broken girl, 0:28:57.210 --> 0:29:01.090 or she might be a person who's not a follower 0:29:01.090 --> 0:29:04.770 of Jesus, and her own temperament might not be well 0:29:04.810 --> 0:29:08.130 suited to to be a coper. Uh, with these kinds 0:29:08.130 --> 0:29:10.810 of things. But here's what I would say, and I 0:29:10.810 --> 0:29:14.610 would encourage women to do. If you have a husband 0:29:14.610 --> 0:29:19.930 and you suspect that because of his behavior or your 0:29:19.970 --> 0:29:22.770 knowledge that he has some childhood wounds that have never 0:29:22.770 --> 0:29:28.170 been dealt with, is that you would not try to 0:29:28.170 --> 0:29:32.780 fix him. So that is absolutely the worst thing that 0:29:32.780 --> 0:29:35.180 you can do. And you probably already know that because 0:29:35.180 --> 0:29:37.220 you may have already done it or you've seen somebody 0:29:37.220 --> 0:29:39.500 else do it. So I'd encourage you not to do that. 0:29:40.180 --> 0:29:44.140 I would encourage you to most of all, pray to 0:29:44.740 --> 0:29:48.940 our Savior and our Lord and our God to help 0:29:48.940 --> 0:29:51.500 your husband. But then on a practical level, I really 0:29:51.500 --> 0:29:53.620 encourage you to get a copy of this book for 0:29:53.620 --> 0:29:55.780 yourself and read it so that you can understand what 0:29:55.780 --> 0:29:58.620 he's going through. That will give you more empathy toward him, 0:29:58.620 --> 0:30:02.660 and it also give you some practical ideas to understand 0:30:02.820 --> 0:30:06.380 how he could be helped. And then the final piece 0:30:06.380 --> 0:30:09.620 of prayer, you know, read the book for yourself, for 0:30:09.620 --> 0:30:13.340 your own knowledge or for your own personal life. If 0:30:13.340 --> 0:30:17.979 that's the case. But then consider suggesting that your husband 0:30:17.980 --> 0:30:22.260 read the book. Do not give the book at him. 0:30:22.460 --> 0:30:25.220 Does that make sense? But do give the book to him. 0:30:25.220 --> 0:30:30.140 I have a friend who, uh, got a copy of 0:30:30.140 --> 0:30:34.790 the book. Didn't read it. His wife read it, and she, uh, 0:30:34.790 --> 0:30:37.070 she just said to him one day, and she had 0:30:37.070 --> 0:30:39.870 that tone of voice. She said, you know, I really 0:30:39.870 --> 0:30:41.190 think you should read this. 0:30:42.830 --> 0:30:43.870 And he got and. 0:30:43.910 --> 0:30:46.470 He and he understood what she was saying, and he 0:30:46.470 --> 0:30:48.990 read it and it really did help him. 0:30:49.630 --> 0:30:53.230 Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. I've sometimes said to women ask him 0:30:53.230 --> 0:30:58.190 if he'll read the first chapter. Yeah. That's good. If 0:30:58.190 --> 0:31:00.230 you read the first chapter you'll probably read the rest 0:31:00.230 --> 0:31:01.030 of it you know. 0:31:01.790 --> 0:31:03.230 That is very good. 0:31:03.550 --> 0:31:07.630 Now your book gives, uh, as it were, a game plan, uh, 0:31:07.630 --> 0:31:10.989 to process pain and then come to the place of 0:31:10.990 --> 0:31:15.430 forgiveness and then building better relationships. Uh, give us some 0:31:15.430 --> 0:31:19.870 examples of the action plans that have that have helped men. 0:31:20.950 --> 0:31:27.110 Okay, well, I mentioned that there are these nine different characteristics, um, 0:31:27.110 --> 0:31:31.440 of broken boys. I mean, I could write a book 0:31:31.480 --> 0:31:33.920 on any one of these things, right? But instead, what 0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:37.440 I've chosen to do is give the guy that's reading 0:31:37.440 --> 0:31:41.200 it a page or two of information so that he 0:31:41.200 --> 0:31:45.160 can identify with it. For example, characteristic number four. You're 0:31:45.160 --> 0:31:48.719 not sure what healthy male behavior looks like. And then 0:31:48.960 --> 0:31:52.320 I tell the story in there that when I did 0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:56.120 join the Army, I rose to the rank of specialist 0:31:56.120 --> 0:32:00.800 four in the minimum amount of time. And then when 0:32:01.480 --> 0:32:06.440 I would have been promoted to E5, which is a sergeant, 0:32:06.720 --> 0:32:09.520 I didn't get the promotion in the minimum amount of time. 0:32:09.520 --> 0:32:12.960 So I started bugging my master sergeant every day and 0:32:12.960 --> 0:32:15.040 asking him, you know, when are, you know, what did 0:32:15.040 --> 0:32:16.720 I do wrong? When are you going to promote me? 0:32:17.080 --> 0:32:19.960 And finally he sat me down and he said, son, 0:32:20.280 --> 0:32:23.560 let me give you some advice. The more you pester me, 0:32:23.920 --> 0:32:26.080 the less motivated I am to promote you. 0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:29.200 So. But. Yeah. 0:32:29.200 --> 0:32:31.850 My my, my. So you can see my launch in 0:32:31.850 --> 0:32:34.330 the manhood. It was just very, very awkward. I had 0:32:34.330 --> 0:32:40.370 no situational awareness, very low emotional intelligence. I was I 0:32:40.410 --> 0:32:44.050 just I floundered, and that's, uh, you know, if you're listening, 0:32:44.090 --> 0:32:46.490 maybe you were not fathered or mothered or mentored or 0:32:46.490 --> 0:32:49.530 coached about what it means to be a man. And 0:32:49.530 --> 0:32:52.130 so as a result, you know, you're like me. You 0:32:52.170 --> 0:32:55.810 were unprepared for adulthood because your parents just didn't know 0:32:55.810 --> 0:32:58.570 how to equip you or didn't equip you to become independent. 0:32:58.570 --> 0:33:00.930 So it could be, you know, college advice. It could 0:33:00.930 --> 0:33:06.450 be vocational advice, uh, some information about the opposite gender. Well, 0:33:06.490 --> 0:33:08.570 first of all, I never heard the words I love 0:33:08.570 --> 0:33:13.330 you or I'm proud of you, or we believe in you. 0:33:13.370 --> 0:33:16.530 No recollection of of any of those kinds of words. 0:33:17.010 --> 0:33:20.730 And so I just didn't have the nurture to enter 0:33:20.730 --> 0:33:25.410 into adulthood as, as with healthy male behavior. And so 0:33:25.450 --> 0:33:27.930 in the book, I spent a couple pages on that. 0:33:27.930 --> 0:33:31.540 And then at the end of this I have a 0:33:31.540 --> 0:33:37.219 reflection exercise for you, the man, to evaluate yourself in 0:33:37.220 --> 0:33:39.780 this area. And I'll just read it. It says, how 0:33:39.780 --> 0:33:42.940 often do you feel like you know what healthy male 0:33:42.980 --> 0:33:47.020 behavior is in a given situation? And then you have 0:33:47.020 --> 0:33:53.700 five choices. Never. Rarely. Sometimes. Usually or always. This is 0:33:53.700 --> 0:33:59.940 helping give a man a map of where he is, 0:33:59.940 --> 0:34:03.260 how he got there, and then moving forward. In this 0:34:03.260 --> 0:34:06.620 healing process. There are also exercises for him to do, 0:34:07.140 --> 0:34:13.020 to actually pray, prayers, to go through acts of forgiveness. 0:34:13.180 --> 0:34:16.980 Just every every chapter has different kinds of exercises and 0:34:16.980 --> 0:34:19.899 reflections for for the man to do, to be make 0:34:19.940 --> 0:34:21.140 it very practical. 0:34:21.900 --> 0:34:25.020 Pat, you mentioned earlier that this is a process. It's 0:34:25.020 --> 0:34:28.830 not something that can be done overnight, Eight. But typically, 0:34:29.390 --> 0:34:31.710 how long do you think a process is? If a 0:34:31.710 --> 0:34:35.310 man seriously sees, you know, these wounds and hurts and 0:34:35.310 --> 0:34:38.589 really wants to move in the right direction, how long 0:34:38.630 --> 0:34:40.070 might that process take? 0:34:41.350 --> 0:34:43.470 Well, Gary, it's going to be different for every man. 0:34:43.469 --> 0:34:46.710 Of course, you know that, uh, the depending on the 0:34:46.710 --> 0:34:50.390 severity of the wounds. And, but I would say that 0:34:50.710 --> 0:34:54.589 most men should be able to make immense progress in 0:34:54.630 --> 0:34:56.670 as little as 2 or 3 months. And I say 0:34:56.670 --> 0:35:00.630 that from personal experience. I experienced about a 70%, or 0:35:00.670 --> 0:35:05.709 maybe even 80% improvement just by going through eight professional 0:35:05.710 --> 0:35:10.870 counseling sessions. The feeling that I had at the time 0:35:10.870 --> 0:35:14.190 was I knew that I was a follower of Jesus, 0:35:14.590 --> 0:35:18.149 but somehow I just felt dull. I didn't feel that 0:35:18.150 --> 0:35:21.629 the luster of the gospel I didn't. When I read 0:35:21.630 --> 0:35:24.350 about the abundant life, I didn't. I didn't feel abundant 0:35:24.390 --> 0:35:27.600 when when it says in scriptures that Christ came to 0:35:27.640 --> 0:35:32.440 make us alive. I didn't feel fully alive and, uh. 0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:35.640 But here's the thing. In a matter of of of 0:35:35.719 --> 0:35:39.560 a of a couple of months, that radically changed. Now, 0:35:39.560 --> 0:35:44.759 that doesn't mean that everything was, was, was fixed or 0:35:44.880 --> 0:35:48.760 made well or made whole right away. In fact, even today, 0:35:48.760 --> 0:35:53.760 I still walk with a limp. Erik Erikson's famous child 0:35:53.760 --> 0:35:58.720 development theory. The first task of that is trust versus mistrust. 0:35:58.960 --> 0:36:02.680 And so if a child in the first few months 0:36:02.680 --> 0:36:05.560 or years of its life makes the decision that the 0:36:05.560 --> 0:36:09.680 world is not a safe place, then even when you 0:36:09.719 --> 0:36:12.360 heal your childhood wounds, you're still going to be dealing 0:36:12.360 --> 0:36:15.200 with some of that first characteristic that you have a 0:36:15.200 --> 0:36:17.919 hard time believing that people really care about you. So 0:36:17.960 --> 0:36:20.239 I still struggle with that when I walk into a 0:36:20.239 --> 0:36:23.600 room today, unless I'm filled with the Holy Spirit, I 0:36:23.600 --> 0:36:28.330 still my natural tendency ANC is to be suspicious that 0:36:28.330 --> 0:36:30.770 people are really not going to not going to like me. Now, 0:36:30.770 --> 0:36:33.290 I don't actually act on that that much anymore. But 0:36:33.290 --> 0:36:35.610 every now and then it does rear its head. So 0:36:36.050 --> 0:36:39.049 you're going to walk with a limp. Let's be, you know, 0:36:39.090 --> 0:36:43.770 completely transparent about that. But that doesn't mean that you 0:36:43.770 --> 0:36:47.090 can't feel fully alive in Jesus. You can. 0:36:47.770 --> 0:36:51.730 Mhm. Absolutely. What do you say to the man who 0:36:52.330 --> 0:36:56.770 sees he needs help. Maybe he is working through this book. 0:36:56.770 --> 0:37:00.810 He's making some, you know, progress. Uh, but let's say 0:37:00.810 --> 0:37:03.930 that anger is one of the characteristics that he's exhibited 0:37:03.930 --> 0:37:06.850 and he's tried to deal with. And so he's made 0:37:06.850 --> 0:37:09.890 a few steps forward, feeling good about himself. And then 0:37:09.890 --> 0:37:14.050 something happens and he has an outburst of anger and hurts, 0:37:14.090 --> 0:37:16.490 you know, his wife or kids or whomever it is. 0:37:17.250 --> 0:37:19.529 How might he feel at that point? And what does 0:37:19.530 --> 0:37:20.770 he do at that point? 0:37:21.890 --> 0:37:24.210 Well, he's going to have different voices in his head, right? 0:37:24.250 --> 0:37:27.180 He's going to have the Holy Spirit who's going to be, 0:37:27.739 --> 0:37:32.060 first of all, loving him, but also encouraging, convicting him 0:37:32.060 --> 0:37:35.020 to to make it right. But he's also going to 0:37:35.020 --> 0:37:39.140 have the voice of the devil in his head as well, saying, see, 0:37:39.140 --> 0:37:42.700 I told you, you your mother was right. You're going 0:37:42.739 --> 0:37:44.899 to end up just like your dad. You know, you're 0:37:44.900 --> 0:37:46.500 never going to be any good. So you're going to 0:37:46.500 --> 0:37:48.859 have those voices in your head. So it's a little 0:37:48.900 --> 0:37:51.460 bit of a whack a mole kind of a thing. Uh, 0:37:51.460 --> 0:37:53.820 but here's the thing. The way I look at it, 0:37:55.060 --> 0:37:59.060 and my experience proves this out, is that each time 0:37:59.060 --> 0:38:02.020 you have an episode, you go through the process of, 0:38:02.380 --> 0:38:05.259 first of all, repenting or changing your mind about it 0:38:05.300 --> 0:38:09.459 and asking for forgiveness. And it's like cutting a piece 0:38:09.460 --> 0:38:11.980 of string in half. So half is gone, but half 0:38:11.980 --> 0:38:14.540 is left. But the half that's left is not as 0:38:14.540 --> 0:38:17.420 big as it was before. And then the next time 0:38:17.700 --> 0:38:21.660 you have, uh, an episode, you cut the string in 0:38:21.660 --> 0:38:24.270 half again. So a little bit of it goes away 0:38:24.270 --> 0:38:28.750 when you apologize and ask forgiveness, but half of the 0:38:28.750 --> 0:38:31.390 string is still there. But again, it's not as long 0:38:31.390 --> 0:38:34.149 as it was before. And so you do. And you 0:38:34.150 --> 0:38:36.950 can make progress, uh, over time with this. 0:38:37.469 --> 0:38:42.110 Yeah, yeah. What about the man who denies that anything 0:38:42.110 --> 0:38:46.790 really bad happened in childhood? Or he recognizes that there 0:38:46.790 --> 0:38:49.549 were problems back there, but. But it doesn't affect me. 0:38:49.550 --> 0:38:52.069 It doesn't affect me. Uh, what do you. What do 0:38:52.070 --> 0:38:53.070 you say to that guy? 0:38:53.390 --> 0:38:57.549 He's probably not ready for the book. It's a fascinating 0:38:57.590 --> 0:39:01.070 thing that would happen when I was, uh, writing the book. 0:39:01.710 --> 0:39:04.870 When I was in college, I used to race motocross, 0:39:04.870 --> 0:39:06.790 and my mom and dad came to see me race 0:39:06.790 --> 0:39:09.549 one time. One time? That happened to be the day 0:39:09.550 --> 0:39:12.230 that I got into a nasty accident and got flown 0:39:12.230 --> 0:39:15.230 to the hospital in a helicopter. Well, my mom and 0:39:15.230 --> 0:39:17.710 dad didn't come. My mom and dad didn't come to 0:39:17.710 --> 0:39:20.629 the emergency room and they never called to check up 0:39:20.630 --> 0:39:24.759 to see how I was. Well, now you you would 0:39:24.760 --> 0:39:26.840 think that that would be that would be such a 0:39:26.840 --> 0:39:29.560 devastating memory that it would just have, you know, really 0:39:29.560 --> 0:39:33.240 ripped me apart. Right. Yeah. But here's the thing. Until 0:39:33.239 --> 0:39:36.560 I was literally until I was writing the book, I 0:39:36.600 --> 0:39:40.680 literally had no recollection of that. It was by writing 0:39:40.680 --> 0:39:44.200 the book, reliving everything. You know, that memory came back 0:39:44.200 --> 0:39:47.719 to me and I. But. And that's what that's how 0:39:47.719 --> 0:39:52.120 powerful denial is. Yeah, but the the process of of 0:39:52.120 --> 0:39:56.479 facing the truth then, is what I'm trying to help 0:39:56.480 --> 0:39:59.640 men do so they can get out of denial. And 0:39:59.680 --> 0:40:03.960 that's really to actually try to help men remember the 0:40:03.960 --> 0:40:06.760 man who does read the book. I'm going to guide 0:40:06.760 --> 0:40:11.680 him through a process of remembering the goal of getting 0:40:11.719 --> 0:40:15.319 out of denial. Facing the truth is remembering what we've 0:40:15.320 --> 0:40:17.719 been trying to forget, or what we have forgotten. 0:40:19.400 --> 0:40:21.560 As we come to the end of our time together today. 0:40:21.600 --> 0:40:24.129 Can you tell us a story about someone who has 0:40:24.130 --> 0:40:28.450 taken a similar journey to yours and has now found freedom? 0:40:29.890 --> 0:40:33.370 Yeah. My best friend for 17 years was a man 0:40:33.370 --> 0:40:36.850 who ran our Bible study, the one I teach. I 0:40:37.010 --> 0:40:38.690 made a deal with him. I'll teach. And you do 0:40:38.690 --> 0:40:41.610 everything else. And so we would go out to lunch 0:40:41.610 --> 0:40:43.770 and a movie every Friday. And we did that for 0:40:43.770 --> 0:40:47.690 17 years until he passed away. And he grew up 0:40:47.690 --> 0:40:52.090 in a home that was extremely dysfunctional. And his father 0:40:52.170 --> 0:40:58.290 was a belittling and demeaning person. So one day, my 0:40:58.290 --> 0:41:01.490 friend Jim, uh, when he was about ten years old, 0:41:02.050 --> 0:41:05.729 had his friend in the neighborhood, Timmy, over to play. 0:41:05.730 --> 0:41:10.009 And as Timmy was getting ready to leave my friends, 0:41:10.010 --> 0:41:13.730 Jim's father opened the door and in front of my 0:41:13.730 --> 0:41:16.690 friend Jim, who's ten years old at the time, says 0:41:16.690 --> 0:41:20.690 to Timmy, Timmy, you can come back anytime. I sure 0:41:20.690 --> 0:41:22.380 wish I had a son like you. 0:41:22.820 --> 0:41:23.180 Hmm. 0:41:23.340 --> 0:41:25.459 Well, I mean, how do you get over that? And 0:41:25.500 --> 0:41:28.100 then all the other things that the father would have 0:41:28.100 --> 0:41:32.660 said as well. But here's the thing. Jim was able 0:41:32.660 --> 0:41:38.500 to process his childhood wounds and was able to, you know, 0:41:38.540 --> 0:41:42.020 come to a place to a forgiveness. His father in 0:41:42.020 --> 0:41:45.140 particular was toxic. And so he was never really able 0:41:45.140 --> 0:41:48.739 to have a relationship with him again. Unlike me, I 0:41:48.739 --> 0:41:52.620 was able to have a relationship again with my dad. 0:41:52.980 --> 0:41:55.540 That happened at the age of 35 for me, but 0:41:55.540 --> 0:41:59.780 never happened for Jim. But he was able to, uh, 0:41:59.940 --> 0:42:03.020 become a follower of Jesus, to get married, to have 0:42:03.020 --> 0:42:06.540 his own family and be a loving husband and father 0:42:06.540 --> 0:42:09.379 and a man of service. He just who loved to 0:42:09.380 --> 0:42:13.299 serve other people. That never would have happened, though, if 0:42:13.300 --> 0:42:16.740 he had not found rest for his soul by becoming 0:42:16.739 --> 0:42:19.100 a follower of Jesus. You know, Jesus said, come unto me, 0:42:19.100 --> 0:42:21.830 all you who are weary and burdened, and I will 0:42:21.830 --> 0:42:27.350 give you more work to do. I know. He says, 0:42:27.350 --> 0:42:30.150 come unto me, and I will give you rest. You'll 0:42:30.150 --> 0:42:33.270 find rest for your soul. And Jim did find that rest. 0:42:33.590 --> 0:42:37.830 Yeah. Well, my prediction is that God's going to use 0:42:37.830 --> 0:42:40.509 this book to help a lot of men look to 0:42:40.550 --> 0:42:44.630 God and walk with God through this process of finding 0:42:44.630 --> 0:42:48.109 healing from the wounds of childhood. And I also want 0:42:48.150 --> 0:42:50.509 to say this, I think a lot of counselors who 0:42:50.510 --> 0:42:52.790 may be listening today, this book is going to be 0:42:52.790 --> 0:42:56.630 a great tool for Christian counselors to use in the 0:42:56.630 --> 0:43:01.030 process of helping men walk through this journey. So, Pat, again, 0:43:01.030 --> 0:43:02.509 thanks for being with us today. 0:43:02.910 --> 0:43:05.549 Thank you, Gary, and thank you Chris and Andrea as well. 0:43:05.550 --> 0:43:07.630 I appreciate it. And to all you men out there, 0:43:08.070 --> 0:43:11.870 I pray every day that God will give you. 0:43:11.910 --> 0:43:12.270 A. 0:43:12.630 --> 0:43:15.870 All the fullness of the abundant life and that you 0:43:15.910 --> 0:43:18.069 would feel fully alive in Jesus. And that is my 0:43:18.070 --> 0:43:19.030 prayer every day. 0:43:19.719 --> 0:43:23.120 Well, what a great resource for any man listening who 0:43:23.120 --> 0:43:27.000 has some unresolved hurts and for the people around him 0:43:27.000 --> 0:43:30.399 love him. If you go to building relationships, you'll see 0:43:30.400 --> 0:43:33.480 that book by Doctor Patrick Morley, from Broken Boy to 0:43:33.520 --> 0:43:37.200 Mended Man, a positive plan to heal your childhood wounds 0:43:37.200 --> 0:43:42.239 and break the cycle. Just go to building relationships. Well, 0:43:42.239 --> 0:43:46.720 that's it for our summer Bestov broadcast for today. Next week, 0:43:46.719 --> 0:43:49.600 if you are lonely or you know someone who is, 0:43:49.800 --> 0:43:53.800 don't miss the conversation about cultivating deeper connections. 0:43:54.040 --> 0:43:56.560 Before we go, let me thank our production team, Steve 0:43:56.560 --> 0:44:00.920 Wick and Janice. Backing. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman 0:44:00.920 --> 0:44:05.360 is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, 0:44:05.400 --> 0:44:08.759 a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.