S1: Hiding inside. Every man is a little boy. He can
S1: be healthy and strong.
S2: Or he can be afraid, angry and broken. He's never
S2: really gotten over the wounds of his childhood. Is there
S2: a way to break the cycle of pain? The cycle
S2: of rage? Is there a way to go from.
S1: Broken boy to mended man?
S3: Maybe your parents were nice like mine. And so the
S3: idea of forgiving them seems a little easier. But maybe
S3: they were just mean people. Maybe they were toxic. But
S3: the point is, is that healing is definitely possible. Men
S3: are being healed.
S4: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S4: the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Today,
S4: author of man in the mirror, Doctor Patrick Morley describes
S4: his healing journey from broken boy to mended man, and
S4: he'll give a positive plan for you or a man
S4: you know on how to heal from childhood wounds.
S5: And this is a summer best of broadcast. You can
S5: find our featured resource at the website Building Relationships. Our
S5: guest is Doctor Patrick Morley, author of From Broken Boy
S5: to Mended Man A Positive Plan to Heal Your Childhood
S5: Wounds and Break the Cycle. And it looks like I
S5: know the fella who wrote the foreword to this book. Gary.
S5: Why do you think this is such an important topic
S5: for such a time as this?
S6: Well, you know, Chris, there are a lot of wounded
S6: men out there. I'm just going to read you the
S6: first paragraph in this foreword that I wrote, because I
S6: really feel this is true. I say through my 40
S6: years of counseling men who have experienced childhood wounds, I've
S6: never read a book that I've found more helpful for
S6: those men than the book you hold in your hands.
S6: It is practical, understandable and doable, I think because it's
S6: written by a man who has walked the road. Uh,
S6: so I'm excited to have Doctor Morley with us today,
S6: because I think this is a topic that's gravely needed
S6: in our society today.
S5: Well, let's meet him. And we promised him we're going
S5: to call him Pat. But I'll say it one more time.
S5: Doctor Patrick Morley is founder of man in the mirror,
S5: a global ministry impacting thousands of churches, millions of men.
S5: Motivated by his own search for meaning and purpose. He
S5: started a Bible study with a handful of guys in 1986.
S5: And that study is still going. It now reaches men
S5: around the world every week. He's written some 23 books,
S5: including The Man in the mirror, which was named one
S5: of the 100 most influential Christian books of the 20th century.
S5: And our featured resource today, as I said at Building Relationships,
S5: is from Broken boy to Mended Man. Just go to
S5: building relationships.
S6: Well, Doctor Morley, welcome to building relationships.
S3: Well, Doctor Chapman, thank you for having me. It's such
S3: an honor. I, I just cannot get over the fact
S3: that I'm able to actually be on your program. Uh,
S3: you've been a hero of mine forever. And so thank
S3: you again for the gracious words of that forward to.
S3: In fact, after you read it, I was thinking, well,
S3: we could wrap it up right now.
S6: Well, I've given my opinion when the when the program's over,
S6: they're going to have their own opinion. Okay.
S3: True enough, true enough.
S6: As we start, uh, let's talk this a little bit
S6: about the global impact of the man in the mirror
S6: and how that all got started. Give us a little
S6: background on that and your perception of how God has
S6: used that.
S3: Well, it's interesting because my background is business. I was
S3: a real estate developer, My first life philosophy was that
S3: money will solve my problems and success will make me happy.
S3: I quit high school in the middle of my senior year,
S3: so there were some problems at home. Nice, very nice parents,
S3: but very passive and permissive. And so, um, I was
S3: a broken boy. I didn't understand any of that at
S3: the time. I really just felt like I, and I,
S3: pretty much from about 8 or 9 years old, had
S3: the sense of feeling like I was on my own
S3: to figure out life. Uh, and I became very successful
S3: in business. You know, broken boys tend to become especially irresponsible,
S3: or they become the responsible son, uh, depending on whether
S3: they want to prove that their parents were right or
S3: wrong about them. And so I became the responsible son,
S3: became quite successful. And I was just sitting around one
S3: day I said, wow, there's just got to be more
S3: to life than this. It just there just has to be.
S3: And so that's when I started the Bible study that
S3: Chris referenced and started teaching men about the problems that
S3: we face. And it wasn't until quite some time later, though,
S3: that I actually had the revelation, the epiphany, that the
S3: reason that I was struggling so much personally with all
S3: the demons that came in the middle of the night,
S3: was because of childhood wounds that had never really been
S3: properly processed.
S6: Well, no question about it. That book made in the
S6: mirror tremendously helpful to a lot of people, and I
S6: think this book is going to be the same. You
S6: say there's an epidemic of lonely, hurting men carrying unresolved pain.
S6: How do you know that's true? And what does that
S6: look like today?
S3: Well, Gary, my favorite thing to do, uh, you know,
S3: we write books, we teach churches. You know, we do
S3: all these different things. But my number one favorite thing
S3: to do is to meet with men one on one.
S3: And I've literally met with thousands of men one on
S3: one to hear their stories. And, you know, for a
S3: period of, you know, 40 years meeting with 2 or
S3: 3 guys a week like that, it adds up. And
S3: so when men try to put into words what they
S3: feel like is holding them back, what's keeping them from
S3: feeling fully alive? And if they're a believer, fully alive
S3: in Jesus, they will inevitably mention one or more seven things.
S3: You know, I just feel like I'm in this alone.
S3: I don't feel like God cares about me personally. Not really.
S3: My life doesn't feel like it has a purpose. It
S3: feels random. I have these destructive behaviors. They keep dragging
S3: me back down. My soul feels dry. My most important relationships,
S3: they're not healthy. And then finally, I just don't feel
S3: like I'm doing anything that's going to make a difference
S3: and leave the world a better place. I kind of
S3: my organizing paradigm is, is that what do men want
S3: that they need, that I have to offer? And so when,
S3: since I am a broken boy, and since I have
S3: a theological education and a doctorate degree and all these
S3: different things, and I've studied this and I've been through
S3: it personally, I've just really felt a calling to go
S3: ahead and put this all out there. And it's not
S3: the normal thing that someone would do, but I just
S3: felt like called by God that it was something I
S3: was supposed to do.
S6: Well, Pat, this is your 23rd book, but it took
S6: you six years before deciding to move ahead and write it.
S6: What took so long?
S3: Well, net net, my mom and dad are were really
S3: nice people, and I believe that they wanted to do
S3: the right things. Uh, but they were never trained, equipped
S3: or discipled to be godly parents. My dad was abandoned
S3: when he was two years of age, and so he
S3: never felt the scratch of his father's whiskers. He never
S3: heard a father reading him a bedtime story. He never
S3: tossed a ball in the backyard. He never had his
S3: hair tussled, never wrestled on the living room floor with
S3: his dad, never heard a truck door shut in the
S3: driveway at the end of a day, signaling that his
S3: dad was about to re-enter the family orbit. And so
S3: basically what it meant to be a man, a husband
S3: and a father was unexampled to him. And so he
S3: was left to guess at how to be a dad
S3: to me and a husband to my mom. And, and, uh,
S3: so net of all that is that he did the
S3: best he could, but there was this intergenerational dysfunction that
S3: got transmitted to him. He never was able to do
S3: anything about that, so I didn't want to. So the
S3: answer to the question is I and my mom and
S3: dad and I, we did reconcile. And and for the
S3: last half, uh, for the second half of my life
S3: and the last part of their life, we had a
S3: very loving and hugging, affectionate relationship that we did not
S3: have for the first 35 years of my life. So
S3: I didn't want to throw them under the bus, and
S3: it just took me six years to figure to to
S3: to noodle around to figure out how I could honor them. Uh,
S3: but yet still tell the true story. And so I
S3: finally got it. Got it all sorted out in my head.
S3: But it took like six years to do that. And, uh, yeah,
S3: that's the answer to the question.
S6: I can understand that. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't want
S6: to put them down. And yet you want to be honest.
S6: And when did you personally begin to realize that your,
S6: your childhood wounds and how they had impacted you?
S3: Well, there are kind of two answers to that question. Um,
S3: I when I left home, I washed my hands and
S3: my parents, I joined the Army. And, um, if it
S3: wasn't for my wife, I probably would have had no
S3: contact at all. But I became a follower of Jesus
S3: through the influence of my wife at the age of 24,
S3: when I was 25 years of age, my parents invited
S3: us to come out to their home for dinner. My
S3: brother had been off at war. The family had not
S3: been together for several years. It was Thanksgiving and so
S3: my mom and dad were there. My three younger brothers,
S3: my new wife and myself. And we were that family
S3: that would say grace, but we would say, God is good,
S3: God is great, and we thank you for this food. Amen.
S3: As quickly as we could, you know, and so on
S3: this particular day, though, my dad said, I'd like to
S3: pray today. And so we bowed our heads and he said, Lord,
S3: mom and I would just like to say thank you.
S3: And then he started blubbering and he excused himself and
S3: went into the master bedroom. I went in after him.
S3: I said, dad, dad, are you all right? What's the matter?
S3: He said, no, I'm okay. I just need a minute.
S3: And I said, well, what's going on? He said, well,
S3: it's just that your mother and I never thought that
S3: we would ever see our four boys together in the
S3: same room again. And, uh, something softened in me that day,
S3: and because I was a new Christian and starting to grow,
S3: I just chose to unilaterally forgive my mother and father
S3: that day for everything that had gone before. And it
S3: was real. Now, I didn't have the I didn't know
S3: what I was doing okay at the time, but that
S3: began did begin a process that, uh, took me another
S3: 28 years to come, full circle. And in fact, that's
S3: why I wanted to write the book, because I do
S3: now know that a man can do in a few
S3: months what took me several decades to do, if he
S3: will apply himself and actually do this book, not just
S3: but actually do the book.
S5: This is a summer best of Building Relationships broadcast.
S4: For more ways to strengthen your relationships, go to Building Relationships.
S4: You'll see our featured resource by Doctor Patrick Morley. From
S4: Broken Boy to Mended Man, a positive plan to heal
S4: your childhood wounds and break the cycle. Find out more
S4: at building relationships.
S6: Well, Pat, as you've described already, you were one of
S6: those herding men. Do you really think it's possible for
S6: men to go from broken to mended, which is really
S6: kind of the theme of the book?
S3: Yes. And the answer is absolutely yes. In fact, you know,
S3: the book's only been out a little while, so it's September,
S3: but it's came out in March, so not that long.
S3: But I'm getting I'm getting correspondence like every single day
S3: from from men. I got a text last night from
S3: a guy who had mentioned, uh, the, the book to
S3: to a man. He got it. He's a pastor. He
S3: got it. He he was reading the book on an airplane,
S3: and he was crying because he was identifying with everything
S3: that was being said. He had to stop reading the
S3: book on the airplane and finished it when he got home.
S3: And it's had a tremendous impact because he's, for the
S3: first time able to understand all of these emotions or
S3: where these emotions are coming from that have always been inexplicable.
S3: And that was my case, too, as a as a
S3: broken boy. I talk about nine characteristics of broken boys
S3: in the book. Just the first one is you have
S3: a hard time believing that people really care about you.
S3: And so if you have experienced a sense of abandonment,
S3: or if your parents are always angry and demanding, or
S3: if they were overly permissive or even maybe enabling parents,
S3: then there's a good chance that you struggle with trusting
S3: people or a sense of feeling abandoned. That's certainly true
S3: of me. Another characteristic is you are easily angered. I
S3: never lost my temper. Not one time did I ever
S3: lose my temper at the office. But what I would do.
S3: Because there the stakes are so high, you know, in
S3: terms of your prestige, getting what you want done in
S3: terms of projects or sales and so forth, or even
S3: job security itself could be at risk. So I would
S3: bottle it up and bring it home, and then some
S3: little thing would set me off and boom. Just like that. Uh,
S3: hair trigger and, uh, but I had no idea what
S3: was going on. You see? Yeah. And so, uh, when
S3: this really, uh, got sorted out is when my mother
S3: died at the age of 53. And I didn't feel anything.
S3: I didn't cry. I wasn't sad. I didn't miss her.
S3: And I thought that was odd. So I made an
S3: appointment with a counselor, and she helped me to put
S3: into words the father and mother wounds that I had
S3: never been able to articulate. It was from that point forward,
S3: from the age of 53 on, that I've spent a
S3: couple of decades now studying this and and working with
S3: men on this issue. And I know that men can
S3: be mended, can be healed Because healing is all about pain,
S3: and pain can be identified. It can be faced. It
S3: can be grieved. Wounds that have been made against us.
S3: By the way. These wounds. These are things that they're
S3: not your fault. If you're listening today and you have
S3: childhood wounds, it's not your fault. But you're really the
S3: only one that can do anything about it now. But
S3: you can get to a place no matter how toxic.
S3: I know this sounds crazy. Maybe your parents were nice
S3: like mine, and so the idea of forgiving them seems
S3: a little easier. But maybe they were just mean people.
S3: Maybe they were toxic. Maybe they still are. Maybe when
S3: you invite them over to dinner, they're making snide remarks
S3: about your wife, and they're bossing your children around. And
S3: maybe you do need to set up some boundaries. And
S3: I'm showing you how to do that in the book
S3: as well. But the point is, is that healing is
S3: definitely possible. Men are being healed.
S6: Let's go back to your own childhood hood again, Pat,
S6: and describe a little more fully. What was it like?
S6: I mean, you say your parents were good parents, but
S6: what were the things that were either missing there or
S6: what was going on there?
S3: Well, I would say that they were.
S7: Nice parents in terms of, uh, good parents. They really
S7: had never been trained. So if you're listening today and
S7: you could say my parents were encouraging or my parents
S7: were affirming, then that would be a sign that you
S7: had had, you know, good parenting. But what if you
S7: can't say that? Uh, in the book, I identify seven
S7: negative parenting styles, and I'll tell you mine in a moment.
S7: But you might say, if you can't say that they
S7: were encouraging, you might say, well, my parents were passive
S7: or my parents were absent. That could be death, divorce, workaholism,
S7: you know, or addictions. Predictions. My parents were permissive, you know,
S7: like just let you have the run of the place
S7: and didn't have enough structure. Or maybe you would say
S7: my parents were enabling, and that means, you know, all
S7: parents are supposed to help their children, but enabling is
S7: doing for children things that they should or could be
S7: doing for themselves, or maybe not holding them responsible when
S7: they do something they shouldn't do. Or maybe you might
S7: say my parents were, um, demanding. Uh, or my parents
S7: were angry. I had a guy put a fence in
S7: our yard here a little while ago, and he said,
S7: I felt like I grew up in Auschwitz. He said,
S7: just I had to walk around on eggshells. So if
S7: you grew up in an angry home, that's probably, you know,
S7: maybe if you played at your friend's house all the
S7: time instead of your own home, that might be the case.
S7: Or my parents were belittling as the seventh negative parenting style.
S7: And this is your parents making fun of you, and
S7: sometimes in public shaming you for body parts, things like this.
S7: These things are so destructive and demeaning in my own case.
S7: My parents were very passive because they had never been
S7: equipped to train, as I said earlier. And then secondly,
S7: they were very permissive. I pretty much could do whatever
S7: I wanted to do. And so I used that permission
S7: to get into a lot of trouble, as some of
S7: our listeners probably can relate to as well. And what
S7: made my childhood so confusing is that my parents were
S7: really nice people. They really were. But as my counselor
S7: pointed out, that doesn't mean that they were good parents
S7: just because they were nice people. She said that I
S7: think that you have been, uh, abandoned. Gross abandonment. Possibly
S7: even abused. And when she said that, I went ballistic,
S7: to be honest. And I began defending my mom and dad.
S7: But over a period of eight sessions, it only took
S7: eight Eight sessions. She was able to help me really
S7: understand and look at things in in a more professional
S7: way and really understand what had been happening in my
S7: in my family.
S6: Now, the book you have divided into three parts. So
S6: tell us what those three parts are and why you
S6: structured the book in that manner?
S7: Yeah. So, Gary, I'm all about giving men the practical
S7: help they need, the practical help that they've been looking
S7: for and very much focused on solutions, not problems. But
S7: here's the here's the situation. If you're trying to solve
S7: the wrong problem, you can only succeed by accident. And
S7: so I see this all the time. Men don't really
S7: understand what the problem is. And so the first part
S7: of the book, the arc of this book. Part one
S7: is unraveling. What happened to you? Really understanding childhood wounds,
S7: what you should have gotten the right cocktail of love, structure,
S7: roots and wings. And when that goes awry, you end
S7: up with one of these seven negative parenting styles that
S7: I mentioned. And then also that evolves into adult behavior
S7: and nine different characteristics of adult children with unprocessed childhood wounds.
S7: And so in part one, just really helping a man
S7: understand how he got to the place where he is,
S7: you know, just a sidebar in in our Christian world,
S7: it's a normal process is, is that we help someone
S7: become a follower of Jesus and get forgiveness for sins
S7: and salvation. And then we begin to help them, equip
S7: them and disciple them to move forward. But what I've
S7: discovered in many people, and I know you have too,
S7: is that if you don't process the problems that got
S7: you into the dire situation that made you want to
S7: turn to Jesus in the first place, that doesn't mean
S7: those problems go away. They don't just disappear. So you
S7: have to work through them. And so the purpose of,
S7: of this second part of the book is to show
S7: men a biblical healing process that's been around for thousands
S7: of years. And there's seven different stages of this. And
S7: everybody's different. And the stages are not necessarily one right
S7: after another and sometimes. So like getting out of denial
S7: and facing the truth, that's one of the stages. Grieving
S7: what the childhood that you should have had that you
S7: deserved to have. And and actually come to a place
S7: where you believe that you did deserve to have a
S7: different childhood. You know, one of the problems that men
S7: who grow up with childhood wounds is that they feel
S7: like they deserved what they got. In some cases, not
S7: all cases. So anyway, the second part of the book
S7: then is about that healing process. So understanding what happened,
S7: healing it. And then the third part of the book
S7: is about breaking the cycle for the next generation, for
S7: your wife, if you're married or or if you ever
S7: do get married, and your children if you have them
S7: or ever do have them. And then also for your
S7: friends and colleagues and other people around you that may
S7: also be struggling with, uh, these kinds of childhood wounds.
S7: So that's it. The three phases of the book.
S6: So describe, like, the kind of damage that a man
S6: carries from childhood into adulthood. I don't mean you can
S6: go into everything, but just give us an example of
S6: that kind of thing.
S7: Yeah. Well, one of the characteristics is that you are
S7: oversensitive and frequently misread what people intend. You're prickly. You
S7: take things the wrong way. I have a friend. Uh,
S7: he's doing better now, but when he had four young children,
S7: he would walk into the the family room, and 15
S7: minutes later, he'd be sitting by himself. He was so oversensitive.
S7: He took everything the wrong way. And then he made
S7: these prickly remarks. Even his own family didn't want to
S7: be around them. So that would be one of the
S7: one of the ways. And then, of course, uh, you know,
S7: anger is, uh, a very profound response mechanism for men
S7: who have childhood wounds that have not been addressed. It's
S7: just a it's a way of self-defense, if you will. Yeah.
S7: Just simply not knowing how to process conflict. And then
S7: also having had childhood memories of their parents, uh, being
S7: angry with them and lose their temper with their children.
S7: So they, they themselves grow up with this bottled up anger,
S7: and then they pass it on to everybody else.
S6: Yeah. What steps do you teach someone to help them
S6: shift their perspective to being compassionate toward their parents, instead
S6: of just blaming them and being angry with them for
S6: the bad things that happened?
S7: One important concept that Jesus teaches is the concept of
S7: unilateral forgiveness. In the Lord's Prayer, Jesus said, forgive us
S7: our sins as we forgive those who have sinned against us.
S7: When they humble themselves and come to us in bowed
S7: need and beg for forgiveness. It doesn't say that. It
S7: just says, forgive us our sins as we forgive those
S7: who have sinned against us. Parenting is a. It's a
S7: privilege and a sacred responsibility to give children the right
S7: cocktail of love. Structure. Roots and wings. And to give
S7: them the emotional and relational and the spiritual. It's not
S7: just putting a roof over the head. Of course, we
S7: all know this, but it is protection. In fact, the
S7: essence of manhood is to identify and protect sacred things.
S7: There's nothing more sacred that needs protecting than a man's family.
S6: Well, Pat, let's talk to the man who sees what
S6: you're saying. They understand what you're talking about, but they
S6: don't have a clue as to what to do. That
S6: is where to begin. So what's a first step in
S6: breaking destructive family cycles?
S7: Yeah. Here's the big picture. If you're listening and you've
S7: identified with anything that we've been talking about here today
S7: and you maybe are suspicious, maybe you know, that you
S7: have childhood wounds that you've never processed, maybe you're just
S7: suspicious that that might be the case, or maybe you've
S7: been in a deep state of denial. We all compartmentalize
S7: bad thoughts, but denial is something different. It's emotional amnesia.
S7: We literally block things out and literally cannot remember them.
S7: But now your interest has been piqued a little bit.
S7: So the first question to ask is, I would like
S7: you to picture yourself 5 or 10 years down the
S7: road and then look at the behaviors, the unwanted behaviors
S7: that you have right now, or the fears and anxieties
S7: that you'd like to get rid of right now. And
S7: ask yourself what will be different 5 or 10 years
S7: from now, unless you take some action to do something
S7: about them? That's why I wrote this book. I wrote
S7: it for you. I'm. I'm known for personal vulnerability, but
S7: I'm also known for giving men practical resources. And that's
S7: why the book is filled with practical exercises, reflections, discussion,
S7: and reflection questions at the end of each chapter. So
S7: you can do that by yourself or in a small group.
S7: There are several writing exercises to help you put down
S7: on paper. Some thoughts to help you clarify your own
S7: thinking about what happened to you, and then some positive
S7: steps that you can take with your own wife and
S7: your own children, and with your friends to be that
S7: cycle breaker, to be that that guy, that the other
S7: men hope that they can become someday too.
S6: So I hear you saying, the first of all, you identify,
S6: you know, what are you going to be like in
S6: ten years if you don't deal with some of this stuff? Yeah.
S6: And then you decide I'm going to take some steps.
S6: And when you do, this book is going to be
S6: a guideline for you. That's that's what I see. And
S6: that's what I hear you saying. Right.
S7: That that's it. That's it. And I'm also telling men
S7: and women, women are reading the book too. So this
S7: is my 23rd book. And usually I know that when
S7: I do an interview like this, most people are not
S7: going to go out and buy the book. So I
S7: always try to give value in the interview. So this
S7: is something that they can take away because even if
S7: they don't end up with with the book. But guys,
S7: this is different. This is you can't just listen to
S7: this interview today and get what you need to heal
S7: your childhood wounds. In fact, you're not going to be
S7: able to get enough to heal your childhood wounds just
S7: by reading the book and getting the intellectual knowledge about it.
S7: I'm telling men and women, this is not a book
S7: that you read. This is a book you do. You
S7: have to do the book. But if you will do
S7: the book, God will show up. It may be that
S7: you go all the way to healing. If if your
S7: childhood wounds have been on the more mild side, you
S7: might go all the way to healing, or you might
S7: go a certain distance down the road. It might incite
S7: you or encourage you or and I do this in
S7: the book. Encourage you if you do feel like you
S7: need to get professional help is to seek out a counselor.
S7: In fact, even have a link on how to find
S7: a counselor in the book. So it's a just it's
S7: a book filled with practical, practical help.
S6: Now, Pat, you alluded to the spouse of a man,
S6: you know, who has the these these pains. What do
S6: you say to to that wife who's caught in this
S6: kind of cycle? How does a woman married to a
S6: wounded man become an instrument of love and help for him?
S7: Hmm. So it's not a simple answer in one sense,
S7: but it is in another. I mean, because the woman
S7: herself might be a broken woman. You see a broken girl,
S7: or she might be a person who's not a follower
S7: of Jesus, and her own temperament might not be well
S7: suited to to be a coper. Uh, with these kinds
S7: of things. But here's what I would say, and I
S7: would encourage women to do. If you have a husband
S7: and you suspect that because of his behavior or your
S7: knowledge that he has some childhood wounds that have never
S7: been dealt with, is that you would not try to
S7: fix him. So that is absolutely the worst thing that
S7: you can do. And you probably already know that because
S7: you may have already done it or you've seen somebody
S7: else do it. So I'd encourage you not to do that.
S7: I would encourage you to most of all, pray to
S7: our Savior and our Lord and our God to help
S7: your husband. But then on a practical level, I really
S7: encourage you to get a copy of this book for
S7: yourself and read it so that you can understand what
S7: he's going through. That will give you more empathy toward him,
S7: and it also give you some practical ideas to understand
S7: how he could be helped. And then the final piece
S7: of prayer, you know, read the book for yourself, for
S7: your own knowledge or for your own personal life. If
S7: that's the case. But then consider suggesting that your husband
S7: read the book. Do not give the book at him.
S7: Does that make sense? But do give the book to him.
S7: I have a friend who, uh, got a copy of
S7: the book. Didn't read it. His wife read it, and she, uh,
S7: she just said to him one day, and she had
S7: that tone of voice. She said, you know, I really
S7: think you should read this.
S6: And he got and.
S7: He and he understood what she was saying, and he
S7: read it and it really did help him.
S6: Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. I've sometimes said to women ask him
S6: if he'll read the first chapter. Yeah. That's good. If
S6: you read the first chapter you'll probably read the rest
S6: of it you know.
S7: That is very good.
S6: Now your book gives, uh, as it were, a game plan, uh,
S6: to process pain and then come to the place of
S6: forgiveness and then building better relationships. Uh, give us some
S6: examples of the action plans that have that have helped men.
S7: Okay, well, I mentioned that there are these nine different characteristics, um,
S7: of broken boys. I mean, I could write a book
S7: on any one of these things, right? But instead, what
S7: I've chosen to do is give the guy that's reading
S7: it a page or two of information so that he
S7: can identify with it. For example, characteristic number four. You're
S7: not sure what healthy male behavior looks like. And then
S7: I tell the story in there that when I did
S7: join the Army, I rose to the rank of specialist
S7: four in the minimum amount of time. And then when
S7: I would have been promoted to E5, which is a sergeant,
S7: I didn't get the promotion in the minimum amount of time.
S7: So I started bugging my master sergeant every day and
S7: asking him, you know, when are, you know, what did
S7: I do wrong? When are you going to promote me?
S7: And finally he sat me down and he said, son,
S7: let me give you some advice. The more you pester me,
S7: the less motivated I am to promote you.
S6: So. But. Yeah.
S7: My my, my. So you can see my launch in
S7: the manhood. It was just very, very awkward. I had
S7: no situational awareness, very low emotional intelligence. I was I
S7: just I floundered, and that's, uh, you know, if you're listening,
S7: maybe you were not fathered or mothered or mentored or
S7: coached about what it means to be a man. And
S7: so as a result, you know, you're like me. You
S7: were unprepared for adulthood because your parents just didn't know
S7: how to equip you or didn't equip you to become independent.
S7: So it could be, you know, college advice. It could
S7: be vocational advice, uh, some information about the opposite gender. Well,
S7: first of all, I never heard the words I love
S7: you or I'm proud of you, or we believe in you.
S7: No recollection of of any of those kinds of words.
S7: And so I just didn't have the nurture to enter
S7: into adulthood as, as with healthy male behavior. And so
S7: in the book, I spent a couple pages on that.
S7: And then at the end of this I have a
S7: reflection exercise for you, the man, to evaluate yourself in
S7: this area. And I'll just read it. It says, how
S7: often do you feel like you know what healthy male
S7: behavior is in a given situation? And then you have
S7: five choices. Never. Rarely. Sometimes. Usually or always. This is
S7: helping give a man a map of where he is,
S7: how he got there, and then moving forward. In this
S7: healing process. There are also exercises for him to do,
S7: to actually pray, prayers, to go through acts of forgiveness.
S7: Just every every chapter has different kinds of exercises and
S7: reflections for for the man to do, to be make
S7: it very practical.
S6: Pat, you mentioned earlier that this is a process. It's
S6: not something that can be done overnight, Eight. But typically,
S6: how long do you think a process is? If a
S6: man seriously sees, you know, these wounds and hurts and
S6: really wants to move in the right direction, how long
S6: might that process take?
S7: Well, Gary, it's going to be different for every man.
S7: Of course, you know that, uh, the depending on the
S7: severity of the wounds. And, but I would say that
S7: most men should be able to make immense progress in
S7: as little as 2 or 3 months. And I say
S7: that from personal experience. I experienced about a 70%, or
S7: maybe even 80% improvement just by going through eight professional
S7: counseling sessions. The feeling that I had at the time
S7: was I knew that I was a follower of Jesus,
S7: but somehow I just felt dull. I didn't feel that
S7: the luster of the gospel I didn't. When I read
S7: about the abundant life, I didn't. I didn't feel abundant
S7: when when it says in scriptures that Christ came to
S7: make us alive. I didn't feel fully alive and, uh.
S7: But here's the thing. In a matter of of of
S7: a of a couple of months, that radically changed. Now,
S7: that doesn't mean that everything was, was, was fixed or
S7: made well or made whole right away. In fact, even today,
S7: I still walk with a limp. Erik Erikson's famous child
S7: development theory. The first task of that is trust versus mistrust.
S7: And so if a child in the first few months
S7: or years of its life makes the decision that the
S7: world is not a safe place, then even when you
S7: heal your childhood wounds, you're still going to be dealing
S7: with some of that first characteristic that you have a
S7: hard time believing that people really care about you. So
S7: I still struggle with that when I walk into a
S7: room today, unless I'm filled with the Holy Spirit, I
S7: still my natural tendency ANC is to be suspicious that
S7: people are really not going to not going to like me. Now,
S7: I don't actually act on that that much anymore. But
S7: every now and then it does rear its head. So
S7: you're going to walk with a limp. Let's be, you know,
S7: completely transparent about that. But that doesn't mean that you
S7: can't feel fully alive in Jesus. You can.
S6: Mhm. Absolutely. What do you say to the man who
S6: sees he needs help. Maybe he is working through this book.
S6: He's making some, you know, progress. Uh, but let's say
S6: that anger is one of the characteristics that he's exhibited
S6: and he's tried to deal with. And so he's made
S6: a few steps forward, feeling good about himself. And then
S6: something happens and he has an outburst of anger and hurts,
S6: you know, his wife or kids or whomever it is.
S6: How might he feel at that point? And what does
S6: he do at that point?
S7: Well, he's going to have different voices in his head, right?
S7: He's going to have the Holy Spirit who's going to be,
S7: first of all, loving him, but also encouraging, convicting him
S7: to to make it right. But he's also going to
S7: have the voice of the devil in his head as well, saying, see,
S7: I told you, you your mother was right. You're going
S7: to end up just like your dad. You know, you're
S7: never going to be any good. So you're going to
S7: have those voices in your head. So it's a little
S7: bit of a whack a mole kind of a thing. Uh,
S7: but here's the thing. The way I look at it,
S7: and my experience proves this out, is that each time
S7: you have an episode, you go through the process of,
S7: first of all, repenting or changing your mind about it
S7: and asking for forgiveness. And it's like cutting a piece
S7: of string in half. So half is gone, but half
S7: is left. But the half that's left is not as
S7: big as it was before. And then the next time
S7: you have, uh, an episode, you cut the string in
S7: half again. So a little bit of it goes away
S7: when you apologize and ask forgiveness, but half of the
S7: string is still there. But again, it's not as long
S7: as it was before. And so you do. And you
S7: can make progress, uh, over time with this.
S6: Yeah, yeah. What about the man who denies that anything
S6: really bad happened in childhood? Or he recognizes that there
S6: were problems back there, but. But it doesn't affect me.
S6: It doesn't affect me. Uh, what do you. What do
S6: you say to that guy?
S7: He's probably not ready for the book. It's a fascinating
S7: thing that would happen when I was, uh, writing the book.
S7: When I was in college, I used to race motocross,
S7: and my mom and dad came to see me race
S7: one time. One time? That happened to be the day
S7: that I got into a nasty accident and got flown
S7: to the hospital in a helicopter. Well, my mom and
S7: dad didn't come. My mom and dad didn't come to
S7: the emergency room and they never called to check up
S7: to see how I was. Well, now you you would
S7: think that that would be that would be such a
S7: devastating memory that it would just have, you know, really
S7: ripped me apart. Right. Yeah. But here's the thing. Until
S7: I was literally until I was writing the book, I
S7: literally had no recollection of that. It was by writing
S7: the book, reliving everything. You know, that memory came back
S7: to me and I. But. And that's what that's how
S7: powerful denial is. Yeah, but the the process of of
S7: facing the truth then, is what I'm trying to help
S7: men do so they can get out of denial. And
S7: that's really to actually try to help men remember the
S7: man who does read the book. I'm going to guide
S7: him through a process of remembering the goal of getting
S7: out of denial. Facing the truth is remembering what we've
S7: been trying to forget, or what we have forgotten.
S6: As we come to the end of our time together today.
S6: Can you tell us a story about someone who has
S6: taken a similar journey to yours and has now found freedom?
S7: Yeah. My best friend for 17 years was a man
S7: who ran our Bible study, the one I teach. I
S7: made a deal with him. I'll teach. And you do
S7: everything else. And so we would go out to lunch
S7: and a movie every Friday. And we did that for
S7: 17 years until he passed away. And he grew up
S7: in a home that was extremely dysfunctional. And his father
S7: was a belittling and demeaning person. So one day, my
S7: friend Jim, uh, when he was about ten years old,
S7: had his friend in the neighborhood, Timmy, over to play.
S7: And as Timmy was getting ready to leave my friends,
S7: Jim's father opened the door and in front of my
S7: friend Jim, who's ten years old at the time, says
S7: to Timmy, Timmy, you can come back anytime. I sure
S7: wish I had a son like you.
S6: Hmm.
S7: Well, I mean, how do you get over that? And
S7: then all the other things that the father would have
S7: said as well. But here's the thing. Jim was able
S7: to process his childhood wounds and was able to, you know,
S7: come to a place to a forgiveness. His father in
S7: particular was toxic. And so he was never really able
S7: to have a relationship with him again. Unlike me, I
S7: was able to have a relationship again with my dad.
S7: That happened at the age of 35 for me, but
S7: never happened for Jim. But he was able to, uh,
S7: become a follower of Jesus, to get married, to have
S7: his own family and be a loving husband and father
S7: and a man of service. He just who loved to
S7: serve other people. That never would have happened, though, if
S7: he had not found rest for his soul by becoming
S7: a follower of Jesus. You know, Jesus said, come unto me,
S7: all you who are weary and burdened, and I will
S7: give you more work to do. I know. He says,
S7: come unto me, and I will give you rest. You'll
S7: find rest for your soul. And Jim did find that rest.
S6: Yeah. Well, my prediction is that God's going to use
S6: this book to help a lot of men look to
S6: God and walk with God through this process of finding
S6: healing from the wounds of childhood. And I also want
S6: to say this, I think a lot of counselors who
S6: may be listening today, this book is going to be
S6: a great tool for Christian counselors to use in the
S6: process of helping men walk through this journey. So, Pat, again,
S6: thanks for being with us today.
S7: Thank you, Gary, and thank you Chris and Andrea as well.
S7: I appreciate it. And to all you men out there,
S7: I pray every day that God will give you.
S3: A.
S7: All the fullness of the abundant life and that you
S7: would feel fully alive in Jesus. And that is my
S7: prayer every day.
S5: Well, what a great resource for any man listening who
S5: has some unresolved hurts and for the people around him
S5: love him. If you go to building relationships, you'll see
S5: that book by Doctor Patrick Morley, from Broken Boy to
S5: Mended Man, a positive plan to heal your childhood wounds
S5: and break the cycle. Just go to building relationships. Well,
S5: that's it for our summer Bestov broadcast for today. Next week,
S5: if you are lonely or you know someone who is,
S5: don't miss the conversation about cultivating deeper connections.
S4: Before we go, let me thank our production team, Steve
S4: Wick and Janice. Backing. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman
S4: is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers,
S4: a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.