1 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,119 S1: Today on Chris Fabry Live. The song struck such a 2 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,520 S1: deep chord in hearts around the country, around the world. 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:14,760 S1: The movie came out and showed some of the behind 4 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,360 S1: the scenes story of Bart's life, how he met Shannen, 5 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,640 S1: the hard relationship he had with his dad, and the 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:25,119 S1: genesis of that song that catapulted Mercy Me to heights 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,360 S1: they could not imagine. It was. I can only imagine, 8 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,000 S1: of course. So what happened after that? Was it happily 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,640 S1: ever after? What did success do to Bart, to Shannen, 10 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,240 S1: to the group? A new book and film tackles those questions, 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,159 S1: and they are both releasing in February. It's coming up. 12 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,120 S1: We'll talk about that and a whole lot more today 13 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,880 S1: with Bart and Sharon. Shannon Millard today at the Radio 14 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,199 S1: Backyard fence, the program from the heart to the heart 15 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,680 S1: for the heart. Let's get going with a thank you 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,760 S1: to our engineer, Ryan, who's doing all things technical. Trish 17 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,890 S1: is our producer. Josh will be answering your calls today. 18 00:01:00,890 --> 00:01:03,130 S1: And since it's Friday. That's right. It's time for the 19 00:01:03,130 --> 00:01:05,770 S1: fabulous Fabi Friday. Sigh what does it do? Chris I'll 20 00:01:05,770 --> 00:01:09,009 S1: tell you. One we oxygenate your blood. Two we get 21 00:01:09,010 --> 00:01:13,250 S1: your endorphins going. Three we raise your serotonin level. Four 22 00:01:13,250 --> 00:01:17,770 S1: we promote lymphatic drainage and five we stimulate the parasympathetic system. 23 00:01:17,970 --> 00:01:20,649 S1: That's why we call it five lung languages. We also 24 00:01:20,650 --> 00:01:23,890 S1: stimulate your vagus nerve. We help you release acetylcholine. And 25 00:01:23,890 --> 00:01:27,090 S1: don't you dare forget what it does to cortisol dissipation. 26 00:01:27,410 --> 00:01:29,770 S1: Taken four seconds of air through your nose right now. 27 00:01:30,090 --> 00:01:33,090 S1: Hold it four seconds. And then, as you release that 28 00:01:33,090 --> 00:01:35,170 S1: air through your mouth, push on the left side of 29 00:01:35,170 --> 00:01:37,170 S1: your rib cage to get rid of all that bad 30 00:01:37,170 --> 00:01:41,130 S1: carbon dioxide. Today we present a Millard. Sigh aside for 31 00:01:41,130 --> 00:01:45,250 S1: Bart and Shannon. Sam, Gracie, Charlie, Sophie, Miles ASI for Greenville, 32 00:01:45,250 --> 00:01:49,170 S1: Texas for football dreams that led to injuries and eventually 33 00:01:49,170 --> 00:01:52,010 S1: led to Bart joining the choir and meeting Shannon and 34 00:01:52,010 --> 00:01:55,770 S1: the music that ensued. Give a sigh for a grandmother's 35 00:01:55,770 --> 00:01:59,690 S1: faith that inspired an album of hymns. Give a mercy me. Sigh. 36 00:01:59,690 --> 00:02:02,050 S1: And I can only imagine. Sigh. And even if sigh 37 00:02:02,090 --> 00:02:04,090 S1: a sigh. For number one hits that are played on 38 00:02:04,090 --> 00:02:08,210 S1: secular radio stations, numerous awards. Tour buses that break down. 39 00:02:08,210 --> 00:02:10,090 S1: It's all part of the warp and woof of the 40 00:02:10,090 --> 00:02:13,650 S1: Millards story. The fabulous Baby Friday. Sigh is brought to 41 00:02:13,650 --> 00:02:18,890 S1: you by this station and Scott Brickell's book. All rights reserved. 42 00:02:19,490 --> 00:02:23,049 S1: Bart and Shannon Miller, welcome. Are you oxygenated? 43 00:02:23,770 --> 00:02:27,090 S2: Oh, yes. Especially with Scott Brickell's book that pushed us 44 00:02:27,090 --> 00:02:27,810 S2: over the top. 45 00:02:29,010 --> 00:02:32,530 S1: That was okay. So I saw an early thing of the, 46 00:02:32,570 --> 00:02:36,250 S1: you know, release of the film, and I'd had Scott 47 00:02:36,290 --> 00:02:39,049 S1: on talking about that book about the business behind the 48 00:02:39,050 --> 00:02:40,210 S1: song and said. 49 00:02:40,210 --> 00:02:41,370 S3: You know, his voice and all that. 50 00:02:41,370 --> 00:02:43,490 S1: Stuff was like, so when he showed up in the, 51 00:02:43,530 --> 00:02:46,210 S1: in the film, it was like, yeah, you got to 52 00:02:46,210 --> 00:02:48,410 S1: make fun of Scott in some way, right? 53 00:02:48,930 --> 00:02:51,450 S2: Oh, totally. That's my favorite part of the movie. 54 00:02:53,330 --> 00:02:56,530 S1: Uh, Shannon, I forget Bart, let's I want to talk 55 00:02:56,530 --> 00:02:59,820 S1: with you because in the film and you have you 56 00:02:59,860 --> 00:03:02,020 S1: play a big part in the book as well. In 57 00:03:02,020 --> 00:03:06,739 S1: the film, they show the exponential, the explosion of what 58 00:03:06,740 --> 00:03:09,820 S1: that song did. And, you know, it's kind of a 59 00:03:09,820 --> 00:03:12,980 S1: dream come true for Bart and the group and everybody. 60 00:03:13,260 --> 00:03:16,500 S1: And here you are. You got you got to stay 61 00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:19,540 S1: behind and do the the work of, you know, that 62 00:03:19,540 --> 00:03:22,340 S1: that you've been called to do. So take me further 63 00:03:22,340 --> 00:03:23,900 S1: into that. What was that like? 64 00:03:25,540 --> 00:03:28,139 S4: It was a huge transition for me because before we 65 00:03:28,139 --> 00:03:33,260 S4: had children, we traveled together full time. And I love 66 00:03:33,260 --> 00:03:36,940 S4: ministry and I love being hands on in ministry. And 67 00:03:36,940 --> 00:03:41,460 S4: so it was very fulfilling meeting people, hearing people's stories, 68 00:03:41,660 --> 00:03:45,100 S4: sometimes helping people through things. And to go from that 69 00:03:45,100 --> 00:03:49,220 S4: to my biggest dream ever to have a family was wonderful, 70 00:03:49,220 --> 00:03:51,900 S4: but also hard because I had to give up part 71 00:03:51,900 --> 00:03:56,830 S4: of the things I love and Was hard. And I mean, 72 00:03:56,870 --> 00:03:59,670 S4: there was jealousy and resentment. I had to work through 73 00:03:59,710 --> 00:04:03,190 S4: of him getting to have all these amazing opportunities. And 74 00:04:03,190 --> 00:04:06,350 S4: I was just downplaying the greatest opportunity to raise a 75 00:04:06,350 --> 00:04:10,070 S4: child at the same time. While grateful, still having to 76 00:04:10,070 --> 00:04:11,270 S4: figure out what that looks like. 77 00:04:11,630 --> 00:04:15,030 S1: Right. So. So you're thankful for the success and you 78 00:04:15,030 --> 00:04:18,310 S1: know all is happening. But the reality is there are 79 00:04:18,310 --> 00:04:20,310 S1: other things that are going on here. And why can't 80 00:04:20,310 --> 00:04:22,790 S1: he be here more often and that kind of thing. Right? 81 00:04:23,589 --> 00:04:27,710 S4: Yes. I think I didn't anticipate the divide when I 82 00:04:27,710 --> 00:04:28,589 S4: was dreaming it. 83 00:04:28,910 --> 00:04:29,390 S1: Yeah. 84 00:04:29,830 --> 00:04:31,469 S4: I thought somehow it's all going to work together. 85 00:04:31,670 --> 00:04:34,110 S1: Did you see that Bart in her? The kind of 86 00:04:34,150 --> 00:04:34,870 S1: the struggle. 87 00:04:36,390 --> 00:04:38,589 S2: Oh, for sure. I mean, you know, the hard part 88 00:04:38,589 --> 00:04:40,950 S2: is when you're, you know, as a husband trying to 89 00:04:40,950 --> 00:04:44,350 S2: be a provider, it's like you hope and dream that 90 00:04:44,350 --> 00:04:46,909 S2: it'll be successful and that you can pay your bills. 91 00:04:46,910 --> 00:04:51,549 S2: And then the the second it starts to happen, uh, 92 00:04:51,750 --> 00:04:54,520 S2: you know it. We had to learn the hard way. 93 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,279 S2: Learn how to start saying no at times because everything 94 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,280 S2: was a yes, because you never know how long it's 95 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,200 S2: going to last. And, and and, you know, it may 96 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,920 S2: be gone tomorrow and, and. Yeah, I think, I mean, 97 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,560 S2: I think whether it's in mercy me or just any job, 98 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,000 S2: it's that balance between like, I know you have to 99 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,040 S2: provide for us, but I would love for you to 100 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:17,039 S2: be more present too. And it's and mine just happened 101 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:18,680 S2: to be traveling all over the country to where I 102 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,520 S2: couldn't be there. And, and you know, and, you know, 103 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,240 S2: to make matters worse, I was dealing with for all 104 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,599 S2: those years like that, the movie's about a depression that 105 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,560 S2: even when I was home, I wasn't present. Like, I 106 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,440 S2: was just like a, you know, sitting in a corner 107 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,880 S2: in a flower chair, kids climbing all over me and 108 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,279 S2: didn't even notice because I was just in a funk. 109 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,360 S1: Hmm. So the go back to that, the fear of 110 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,960 S1: you get the invitation to do this. Well, we don't 111 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,240 S1: say yes. It might never come again. We got to 112 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,120 S1: strike while the iron is hot. But there are ramifications 113 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:52,080 S1: of that, right? 114 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,560 S2: Sure. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's a, uh, 115 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,679 S2: you know, whether it goes unspoken to where, like, you know, 116 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,640 S2: assuming we're we're in this. Well, definitely in this together, 117 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,480 S2: but on the same team. And, like, surely she understands 118 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:07,360 S2: when I gotta, you know, be gone for two weeks 119 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,159 S2: and do these shows and, and you know, and there 120 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,279 S2: are times where she struggled and didn't speak up because, 121 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,160 S2: you know, she knew that this is part of it. 122 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,400 S2: Like we, you know, but then it does come to 123 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,320 S2: a point where it's like we're both kind of tense 124 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,400 S2: at each other and short with each other, and it's 125 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,560 S2: like what's happening and it's and if you're not careful, 126 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,440 S2: you become roommates and you're living two separate lives. And 127 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,520 S2: so it's it's something that needs to remain on the 128 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,000 S2: radar at all times. And some of that we learned 129 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,359 S2: the hard way. You know, we're, uh, we got to 130 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,840 S2: a point in our marriage a few years, probably around 2015, 131 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,560 S2: to where, in the most healthy way possible, we stopped 132 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,320 S2: caring what everybody wants from us in a and and, 133 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,920 S2: you know, we we do less shows and and not 134 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,369 S2: only can I say no, I say no really, really. 135 00:06:53,370 --> 00:06:57,250 S2: Well now. So. And uh. And. Yeah. And we protect 136 00:06:57,250 --> 00:06:59,330 S2: our home more than we ever have before. 137 00:06:59,730 --> 00:07:03,930 S1: Interesting. Bart Millard, Shannon Millard are with us today. And 138 00:07:03,930 --> 00:07:06,370 S1: if you go to the website, Chris Fabry org, you'll 139 00:07:06,370 --> 00:07:08,610 S1: see the new film that is coming out. I can 140 00:07:08,610 --> 00:07:12,570 S1: only imagine two and the book that comes out not 141 00:07:12,570 --> 00:07:16,490 S1: next week, but the week after February 3rd. Even if 142 00:07:16,890 --> 00:07:20,890 S1: trusting God through the fire. And you'll find out in 143 00:07:20,930 --> 00:07:23,490 S1: the book and in the film why it's written by 144 00:07:23,490 --> 00:07:27,610 S1: Bart and Shannon and has an awful lot of Sam 145 00:07:27,610 --> 00:07:30,130 S1: in here as well part of his story and part 146 00:07:30,130 --> 00:07:32,810 S1: of his thoughts as well. That's the place in the 147 00:07:32,810 --> 00:07:34,850 S1: film that got me the most that I was. It 148 00:07:34,850 --> 00:07:39,890 S1: was the biggest unexpected impact of your story, because when 149 00:07:39,930 --> 00:07:43,250 S1: our we have nine children and when our eighth child 150 00:07:43,250 --> 00:07:47,770 S1: was seven, he was losing weight and he had to 151 00:07:47,770 --> 00:07:49,770 S1: go to the bathroom all the time. We couldn't figure 152 00:07:49,770 --> 00:07:53,620 S1: it out. What is what's going on? And then, uh, 153 00:07:53,620 --> 00:07:56,300 S1: took him to the doctor, and they said. Type one, 154 00:07:56,300 --> 00:07:58,980 S1: type one diabetes. And he was in the hospital, you know, 155 00:07:59,180 --> 00:08:02,020 S1: for a couple of days and trying to deal with this. 156 00:08:02,580 --> 00:08:05,980 S1: And so when I saw you and what you went 157 00:08:05,980 --> 00:08:10,180 S1: through with Sam, now, Shannon, he was he was two 158 00:08:10,220 --> 00:08:12,660 S1: at the time that he was diagnosed, right? 159 00:08:13,180 --> 00:08:14,140 S4: Correct, yes. 160 00:08:14,380 --> 00:08:17,940 S1: Yeah. So you went through a little bit different. And 161 00:08:17,940 --> 00:08:20,460 S1: in the film he's a little bit older. I think 162 00:08:20,620 --> 00:08:24,580 S1: the actor that plays Sam is a little bit older. Barb. 163 00:08:24,580 --> 00:08:27,580 S1: But you felt like, you know these shots that he's 164 00:08:27,620 --> 00:08:30,900 S1: got take man that I just so identified with that 165 00:08:30,900 --> 00:08:34,860 S1: struggle of the dad wanting to protect, but also knowing 166 00:08:34,900 --> 00:08:37,740 S1: that if you don't have this medication, you're not going 167 00:08:37,780 --> 00:08:38,340 S1: to live. 168 00:08:39,900 --> 00:08:43,500 S2: Yeah, I mean, that was the the challenge was like I, 169 00:08:44,460 --> 00:08:46,220 S2: you know, it's I'm trying to do these things just 170 00:08:46,220 --> 00:08:48,980 S2: to keep him alive. Like it's, you know, insulin's life 171 00:08:48,980 --> 00:08:54,620 S2: support and, you know, and and, uh, never just. Yeah, 172 00:08:54,660 --> 00:08:57,980 S2: just trying to keep him alive and never realized one 173 00:08:58,540 --> 00:09:01,020 S2: the depression that a chronic illness like that because it 174 00:09:01,020 --> 00:09:03,819 S2: never goes away can put you in. But also the struggle. Like, 175 00:09:03,860 --> 00:09:06,459 S2: I never heard my son's side of the story until 176 00:09:06,460 --> 00:09:09,500 S2: they interviewed him for this movie, like the original idea 177 00:09:09,500 --> 00:09:11,420 S2: was to tell the story from my perspective. And when 178 00:09:11,420 --> 00:09:13,900 S2: they started talking to Sam, I didn't know that he 179 00:09:13,900 --> 00:09:16,340 S2: struggled with the way that I treated the other kids 180 00:09:16,340 --> 00:09:18,180 S2: and was this happy go lucky dad, but then I 181 00:09:18,179 --> 00:09:20,380 S2: would turn to him and say, don't eat this. Eat that. 182 00:09:20,380 --> 00:09:23,300 S2: Take your shot. Yes. And and you know, I, I 183 00:09:23,300 --> 00:09:26,140 S2: was aware I was doing it never I just I've 184 00:09:26,140 --> 00:09:30,579 S2: never heard him voice how it was hard for him. And, um, 185 00:09:30,740 --> 00:09:32,860 S2: and that's when I realized, oh, this movie has just 186 00:09:32,900 --> 00:09:36,500 S2: it's got more layers than I realized. And, uh, and. Yeah. 187 00:09:36,500 --> 00:09:38,980 S2: And so it was therapeutic for me to see his 188 00:09:38,980 --> 00:09:42,740 S2: perspective on this and, and grateful for where we are 189 00:09:42,780 --> 00:09:46,020 S2: now and with a healthy relationship. But it's, you know, 190 00:09:46,059 --> 00:09:49,230 S2: it was a, you know, as you know, like it's 191 00:09:49,670 --> 00:09:52,069 S2: it's a struggle, man. It's a, you know, we're grateful 192 00:09:52,070 --> 00:09:54,270 S2: that they're somewhat healthy and they're still with us. There 193 00:09:54,270 --> 00:09:57,310 S2: are worse things out there. In some ways. It's almost 194 00:09:57,309 --> 00:09:59,910 S2: like we hear this voice in our head saying, well, 195 00:09:59,910 --> 00:10:02,510 S2: don't complain too much. It's not cancer. It's not, you know, 196 00:10:02,550 --> 00:10:05,430 S2: he's still here at least. And so we don't speak 197 00:10:05,429 --> 00:10:07,510 S2: up because we want to be grateful and we feel 198 00:10:07,550 --> 00:10:11,190 S2: bad if we do. And there are, you know, nine, 199 00:10:11,429 --> 00:10:14,309 S2: almost 10 million people in the world affected by this disease. 200 00:10:14,309 --> 00:10:18,949 S2: And it whether it's, you know, it changes your life. 201 00:10:18,950 --> 00:10:20,750 S2: It is the we call it the new normal like 202 00:10:20,790 --> 00:10:23,590 S2: it's and it you know, my son, at one point 203 00:10:23,590 --> 00:10:25,469 S2: we counted and we thought, I bet he's had over 204 00:10:25,470 --> 00:10:29,430 S2: 60,000 shots in his lifetime. And and it's like it, 205 00:10:29,470 --> 00:10:32,670 S2: you know. No, it's not cancer. And we're grateful he's here. 206 00:10:32,950 --> 00:10:35,870 S2: But everyone, every busy mom, every person out there needs 207 00:10:35,870 --> 00:10:38,550 S2: a moment to step aside and just scream in a pillow. 208 00:10:38,550 --> 00:10:41,550 S2: Just get it out that this is not how it 209 00:10:41,550 --> 00:10:44,190 S2: was supposed to be. And then, you know, come back 210 00:10:44,190 --> 00:10:46,640 S2: and be a better parent. And and that's the cool 211 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,000 S2: thing about this movie is we've had people, like, even 212 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,079 S2: hearing you say that, people that have come up and said, man, 213 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,920 S2: I've never seen a movie addressed diabetes like that. And 214 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,280 S2: I feel seen and I feel heard because I felt 215 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,120 S2: like I shouldn't complain too much because it could always 216 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,200 S2: be worse. And and that's been the coolest part of 217 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,360 S2: these screenings, that I underestimated the amount of people, whether 218 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,640 S2: it's diabetes or rheumatoid arthritis or I met a woman 219 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,840 S2: whose child has down syndrome and she's like, I love, 220 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:14,720 S2: I adore her, she will live with me the rest 221 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:16,760 S2: of her life. And I had to mourn that. She 222 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,560 S2: may not marry, she may not ever move. Out. She 223 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,520 S2: goes and I'm here for her. But there are days 224 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,080 S2: when I have to scream and just get it out, 225 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,760 S2: because it wasn't what I dreamed it would be. But 226 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,320 S2: in some ways it's more I adore. And I was like, hey, 227 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,040 S2: it doesn't make you a worse mom. You adore this, this, 228 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,600 S2: this kid. And you know, but she's like, I just 229 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,080 S2: felt heard that I just I had a chance to. 230 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,920 S2: It's kind of like your your your sigh there. It's 231 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,200 S2: like they had a chance to exhale and get it 232 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,240 S2: out and and refresh. 233 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,880 S1: Well, that letting go is such a. We talk about 234 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,920 S1: that here. We're going to talk about it next week, 235 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,080 S1: letting go of what you wanted and what you thought 236 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,160 S1: it was going to be like, and to accept what 237 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,520 S1: is and what you've been given so that you can 238 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,880 S1: be present all here. That's what we're talking about with 239 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,360 S1: Bart and Shannon Millard. I can only imagine two is 240 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,760 S1: coming out next month. Even if the book Trusting God 241 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,000 S1: Through the Fire is. We have both of those linked 242 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:22,959 S1: at Kris. Kris. For more straight ahead on Moody Radio Hallelujah. 243 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,439 S5: Will I be able to speak at all? I can 244 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:41,880 S5: only imagine. Yeah, I can only imagine. I can only imagine, yeah. 245 00:12:49,450 --> 00:12:51,930 S1: Bart and Shannon Millard are with us today at the 246 00:12:51,929 --> 00:12:56,330 S1: radio backyard fence. He is a celebrated songwriter artist best 247 00:12:56,330 --> 00:12:59,370 S1: known as the front man of Mercy Me. I wrote 248 00:12:59,370 --> 00:13:01,250 S1: that song that we just heard a little bit of, 249 00:13:01,250 --> 00:13:04,530 S1: I Can Only Imagine, which made history in 2019 as 250 00:13:04,530 --> 00:13:07,970 S1: the first Christian song to be certified four times platinum. 251 00:13:08,410 --> 00:13:12,370 S1: It inspired the major motion picture by that same name. 252 00:13:12,570 --> 00:13:17,810 S1: You find out more about Bart and then Shannon, of course, wife, uh, 253 00:13:17,850 --> 00:13:21,569 S1: deeply passionate about her family and her faith, she seeks 254 00:13:21,570 --> 00:13:24,250 S1: to live each day with purpose, gratitude, and joy. And 255 00:13:24,250 --> 00:13:28,050 S1: she is the co-author, along with Bart, of Even If 256 00:13:28,210 --> 00:13:31,089 S1: Trusting God Through the Fire. We have a link at 257 00:13:31,090 --> 00:13:36,170 S1: Chris Dot, and the film comes out part two. I 258 00:13:36,170 --> 00:13:41,130 S1: can Only imagine two comes out, uh, in February. So 259 00:13:42,460 --> 00:13:45,740 S1: I would go back to the diagnosis. You were, as 260 00:13:45,740 --> 00:13:49,580 S1: I understand it, you had an opportunity to go sing 261 00:13:49,740 --> 00:13:54,180 S1: with at the Billy Graham Crusade. Uh, on the week 262 00:13:54,179 --> 00:13:57,500 S1: that Sam was diagnosed. Is that. Tell me that story, Bart. 263 00:13:57,940 --> 00:14:01,340 S2: Yeah. Sam, when he was diagnosed, at times have changed. 264 00:14:01,340 --> 00:14:03,460 S2: But back then, you had to stay in the hospital 265 00:14:03,460 --> 00:14:05,420 S2: for about a week to learn how to take care 266 00:14:05,420 --> 00:14:08,980 S2: of him. And, you know, give, give shots to, like, 267 00:14:09,020 --> 00:14:11,939 S2: an orange and just practice all this stuff. And and 268 00:14:11,940 --> 00:14:14,540 S2: they thought it took the body took longer to adjust 269 00:14:14,540 --> 00:14:17,020 S2: to levels of insulin that he needed. So five days 270 00:14:17,020 --> 00:14:20,620 S2: was pretty common. And so when he went in, we 271 00:14:20,660 --> 00:14:22,580 S2: were there and we were supposed to sing at the 272 00:14:22,580 --> 00:14:25,780 S2: Billy Graham Crusade at the Rose Bowl that following weekend. 273 00:14:26,340 --> 00:14:28,220 S2: And I remember being on the phone with our manager 274 00:14:28,220 --> 00:14:30,260 S2: and I'm just in tears going, I can't leave. I 275 00:14:30,260 --> 00:14:33,740 S2: can't do it like I can't. Yeah. You know, that's 276 00:14:33,740 --> 00:14:35,780 S2: already an issue. There's no way I'm leaving this hospital. 277 00:14:35,780 --> 00:14:37,980 S2: And so he goes, man, they're going to understand. I'll 278 00:14:37,980 --> 00:14:40,870 S2: let him know. And so he reached out to Billy 279 00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:43,950 S2: Graham's team and the message we got back was, hey, 280 00:14:44,470 --> 00:14:47,790 S2: we understand if you can't, but, uh, Doctor Graham would 281 00:14:47,790 --> 00:14:50,550 S2: love because we're in Dallas. We'd love to send a plane, 282 00:14:51,150 --> 00:14:54,830 S2: fly you out so that he can just pray for Sam, 283 00:14:55,150 --> 00:14:57,190 S2: and then you don't have to sing. We'll fly you 284 00:14:57,230 --> 00:15:00,390 S2: right back. And I was like, what in the world? 285 00:15:00,390 --> 00:15:02,550 S2: And so, you know, I went back in there and, 286 00:15:02,590 --> 00:15:04,790 S2: you know, we we all of our family lived near us. 287 00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:06,830 S2: So it's a hospital full of people. And I'm telling 288 00:15:06,830 --> 00:15:09,950 S2: Shannon and she's like, well, you have to go, like, 289 00:15:10,390 --> 00:15:12,510 S2: you know, you have to like it was a dream 290 00:15:12,510 --> 00:15:14,870 S2: to be a part of Billy Graham's crusade, period. But 291 00:15:15,150 --> 00:15:18,950 S2: who you have to go. And so so I literally, uh, 292 00:15:19,510 --> 00:15:22,630 S2: got on a plane like at four in the afternoon, uh, 293 00:15:22,950 --> 00:15:26,510 S2: because the time change flew to Pasadena, had an escort 294 00:15:26,510 --> 00:15:30,550 S2: to the stadium. We go in and, uh, people are 295 00:15:30,550 --> 00:15:33,270 S2: already filling up, and it was. And we walking to 296 00:15:33,310 --> 00:15:35,950 S2: the stage like his his security was, like, bigger than 297 00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:39,030 S2: Secret Service. And there were these two, like, big covered 298 00:15:39,190 --> 00:15:42,390 S2: tents on both sides of the stage, and one side 299 00:15:42,390 --> 00:15:46,230 S2: was like chaos. There was media and everything over there, 300 00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:48,430 S2: and the other side was empty and they led us 301 00:15:48,430 --> 00:15:50,830 S2: to the empty side and I'm watching, going. He put 302 00:15:50,830 --> 00:15:53,790 S2: us on the wrong side. Doctor Graham's over there. Like 303 00:15:53,790 --> 00:15:56,390 S2: it's all like something's going on. We're going to. And 304 00:15:56,390 --> 00:15:59,110 S2: I was like, all this way and somebody made a mistake. 305 00:15:59,390 --> 00:16:01,030 S2: And as we're all the five guys in the band 306 00:16:01,030 --> 00:16:04,510 S2: are staring over there, I hear a voice behind me say, 307 00:16:04,510 --> 00:16:07,110 S2: sometimes you gotta not let the right hand know his 308 00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:09,630 S2: left hand's doing. And he kind of laughed. I turn 309 00:16:09,630 --> 00:16:13,070 S2: is Doctor Graham and us by ourselves. And I was like, 310 00:16:13,070 --> 00:16:15,030 S2: in shock. I mean, it was like I was speechless 311 00:16:15,390 --> 00:16:17,310 S2: and they kind of created a little bit of commotion. 312 00:16:17,310 --> 00:16:20,190 S2: So he'd get a second alone. And he he met 313 00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:22,550 S2: all of us. And then he hugged me and he said, 314 00:16:22,590 --> 00:16:24,550 S2: you know, I'm so sorry about Sam. And every time 315 00:16:24,550 --> 00:16:27,110 S2: he would say my son's name out loud, I just 316 00:16:27,550 --> 00:16:29,750 S2: it wrecked me. Like, you know, it's like, who is 317 00:16:29,750 --> 00:16:32,590 S2: this guy to know? It's just, you know, it's hard 318 00:16:32,590 --> 00:16:34,710 S2: to explain. And he goes, do you mind if I 319 00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:36,150 S2: pray for him? And I was like, I don't even 320 00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:37,989 S2: know if I said yes. I just kind of speechless 321 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,360 S2: and and he put his hand on the back of 322 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,160 S2: my neck and embraced me and started praying for Sam, 323 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,680 S2: like calling his name and praying for these things. And 324 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,160 S2: I'm trying not to just fall apart. And when he 325 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,840 S2: was done, he was like, man, thank you. I mean, 326 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,680 S2: I think we both needed that. Thank you so much 327 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,200 S2: for letting me do that. And then said goodbye like 328 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,960 S2: he did. He didn't want anything from me, which everybody 329 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,200 S2: wanted something from me back then. And he was like, 330 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,680 S2: he was content to put me back on a plane 331 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,080 S2: and fly me home. And so I was like, guys, 332 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,000 S2: what are we doing? The guys were already there because 333 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,240 S2: they went ahead for soundcheck and were already in California. 334 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,520 S2: And I was like, guys, we're here. And so we 335 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,040 S2: volunteered like, we can at least sing imagine. So we 336 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,760 S2: stayed for a sermon. I sang imagine, and then as 337 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,720 S2: he's doing the altar call, they they walked, they got 338 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,080 S2: me back out. Back in the plane. I was home 339 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,080 S2: by one in the morning, 1 a.m. that same night. 340 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,080 S2: And I and I, I mean, I wouldn't trade it 341 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,760 S2: for the world like, it's one of the most amazing 342 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,409 S2: moments of my life and and just, you know, just 343 00:17:39,410 --> 00:17:42,570 S2: a man like him to just every time I tell 344 00:17:42,570 --> 00:17:44,850 S2: a story, I'm like, I can't describe to you to 345 00:17:44,890 --> 00:17:47,130 S2: hear my son's name come out of his mouth when 346 00:17:47,130 --> 00:17:51,649 S2: he prayed like this, this odd authority and just compassion. 347 00:17:51,690 --> 00:17:54,570 S2: It was, you know, it was everything to me. 348 00:17:54,609 --> 00:17:56,010 S6: Yeah. The care, the care. 349 00:17:56,010 --> 00:17:58,930 S1: And the concern and the and the knowledge. And you 350 00:17:58,970 --> 00:18:01,730 S1: knew Shannon. There were people around the country, around the world, 351 00:18:01,810 --> 00:18:05,690 S1: not just the family members and friends who knew about this, 352 00:18:05,690 --> 00:18:08,890 S1: but there were other people who were praying for you, too. 353 00:18:08,930 --> 00:18:11,570 S1: Did you feel that that prayer support. 354 00:18:12,810 --> 00:18:16,930 S4: For sure, for sure. I felt surrounded by people, whether 355 00:18:16,930 --> 00:18:20,649 S4: there were literally people there or not. Um, it was 356 00:18:20,650 --> 00:18:23,409 S4: very overwhelming. But I had a peace the whole time, 357 00:18:23,730 --> 00:18:27,850 S4: even in my not understanding and being overwhelmed. 358 00:18:28,250 --> 00:18:28,730 S6: Yes. 359 00:18:29,010 --> 00:18:30,609 S4: So yes, I would say so. 360 00:18:30,930 --> 00:18:34,810 S1: Because you don't know how this is going to turn out. 361 00:18:34,810 --> 00:18:37,010 S1: You don't know, you know. I mean, you could read 362 00:18:37,010 --> 00:18:40,330 S1: all of the information that you're given and you know 363 00:18:40,330 --> 00:18:42,490 S1: how to do the shots and those kinds of things. 364 00:18:42,490 --> 00:18:44,530 S1: And you, they tell you, you know, you can have 365 00:18:44,530 --> 00:18:46,690 S1: a normal life. It's going to be a normal life, 366 00:18:47,050 --> 00:18:50,530 S1: but it's it doesn't feel normal at 3:00 in the 367 00:18:50,530 --> 00:18:53,850 S1: morning when you think, I wonder if his blood sugar 368 00:18:53,850 --> 00:18:56,409 S1: is spiking or if he's going low. Right. 369 00:18:57,090 --> 00:19:00,650 S4: Right. And at that time, we didn't know anyone that 370 00:19:00,650 --> 00:19:05,290 S4: had diabetes. It wasn't really talked about. And so when 371 00:19:05,330 --> 00:19:07,810 S4: my mom thought he had it and said I needed 372 00:19:07,810 --> 00:19:10,290 S4: to take him to the doctor, I just thought it 373 00:19:10,290 --> 00:19:13,889 S4: was a virus. I had no idea what diabetes even was. 374 00:19:14,410 --> 00:19:16,850 S4: And we both looked at each other like, what did 375 00:19:16,850 --> 00:19:19,889 S4: they just tell us? This is forever. We had to 376 00:19:19,890 --> 00:19:23,210 S4: wrap our minds around that, alongside of it being our 377 00:19:23,210 --> 00:19:26,250 S4: child like it was a lot of layers to accepting 378 00:19:26,250 --> 00:19:29,610 S4: it than living it, and we didn't have a full 379 00:19:29,609 --> 00:19:31,050 S4: night's sleep for years. 380 00:19:31,730 --> 00:19:34,100 S2: Yeah, the wake up call was, you know, I. I 381 00:19:34,900 --> 00:19:37,820 S2: my dad had type two diabetes because of his weight 382 00:19:37,820 --> 00:19:40,060 S2: for a little bit and that's all I knew of. 383 00:19:40,060 --> 00:19:41,780 S2: And so I literally like the scene in the movie 384 00:19:41,780 --> 00:19:43,139 S2: where I'm like, well, so he needs to lose a 385 00:19:43,140 --> 00:19:48,220 S2: few pounds. Like I really like didn't understand what was happening. 386 00:19:48,260 --> 00:19:50,979 S2: And and so there's a scene in there where we 387 00:19:51,020 --> 00:19:53,940 S2: kind of showed up at emergency room and there was 388 00:19:53,980 --> 00:19:57,580 S2: a family going through a similar situation. And, and the 389 00:19:57,580 --> 00:20:00,620 S2: wake up call for me was when that family, like 390 00:20:00,660 --> 00:20:04,500 S2: our son's blood sugar, got up to almost 900, um, and, 391 00:20:04,900 --> 00:20:07,300 S2: and the we were told the other kid got up 392 00:20:07,300 --> 00:20:10,100 S2: to like almost 12 or 1300 and he didn't make it. 393 00:20:10,540 --> 00:20:12,500 S2: And so that scene where I'm in the elevator with 394 00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:14,660 S2: these couple, that's leaving with a bunch of dolls and 395 00:20:14,660 --> 00:20:17,140 S2: no child that really happened to where it was like, 396 00:20:17,700 --> 00:20:19,700 S2: we got to the bottom floor and I was like, oh, 397 00:20:19,740 --> 00:20:21,940 S2: I kind of forgot something in the room just because 398 00:20:21,940 --> 00:20:23,940 S2: I was trying not to lose it. And once they left, 399 00:20:23,940 --> 00:20:26,620 S2: I fell apart. And and, uh, that was the wake 400 00:20:26,660 --> 00:20:29,780 S2: up call, like, okay, this is and, and gratefully a 401 00:20:29,820 --> 00:20:32,750 S2: nurse that, you know, and I mean didn't literally slap 402 00:20:32,750 --> 00:20:34,229 S2: me in the face, but she gave me a wake 403 00:20:34,270 --> 00:20:36,230 S2: up call. I was like, hey, she's the first one 404 00:20:36,230 --> 00:20:38,630 S2: to say insulins life support. You're keeping him alive at 405 00:20:38,630 --> 00:20:41,310 S2: this point. Like, do not this is not like I'm, 406 00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:43,630 S2: you know, I'm on a diet and I cheated and 407 00:20:43,630 --> 00:20:46,390 S2: ate it. She goes, this is if you want him around, 408 00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:49,510 S2: we've got to do this right. And it was scary. Yeah. 409 00:20:49,670 --> 00:20:52,510 S1: That's what we were told is that you are his pancreas. Now, 410 00:20:53,030 --> 00:20:56,830 S1: if you just think of yourself as his pancreas. But 411 00:20:57,070 --> 00:21:01,350 S1: that then comes the moment when he has to take over. 412 00:21:01,350 --> 00:21:04,030 S1: He has to see the, you know, the reason what 413 00:21:04,030 --> 00:21:07,590 S1: can happen if and he has to become his own 414 00:21:07,590 --> 00:21:09,670 S1: pancreas and be able to do that. And I know 415 00:21:09,670 --> 00:21:12,670 S1: they have machines now. And, you know, you can have 416 00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:16,670 S1: the automatic injector and all that kind of stuff. But 417 00:21:16,910 --> 00:21:19,470 S1: it's been the same thing for my son as yours. 418 00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:23,670 S1: It's like shots since he was seven years old. Uh, 419 00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:28,910 S1: that seems to have kept him regulated more. But here's, 420 00:21:28,910 --> 00:21:31,439 S1: here's the thing that really struck me too, from the 421 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,000 S1: film and the book. Even if Trusting God Through the 422 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,600 S1: Fire is the book that comes out February 3rd. Um, 423 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,840 S1: it's it's this idea of, okay, you've seen this reawakening 424 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,600 S1: in your dad. You've had this year with your dad 425 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,240 S1: that you didn't have before, that, you know, and him 426 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,520 S1: coming to faith and speaking into your life and saying 427 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,120 S1: all these things that you remember now. So that ought 428 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,040 S1: to that ought to play out in your relationship with 429 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,320 S1: your kids. You know, it should be easy to do that, 430 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,240 S1: but it wasn't. So tell me about that struggle. 431 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,200 S2: I mean, and, you know, there is definitely part of me, like, 432 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,679 S2: I'm never going to do what my dad did to 433 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,280 S2: me is, you know, you know, physically or whatever. And like, I'm, 434 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,800 S2: I'm so opposite that I'm not very good at disciplining 435 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,000 S2: at all. It's like, I don't want to, you know, 436 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,400 S2: that's the struggle for me. And but I thought that 437 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,359 S2: part will be easy. I'm not going to be my dad. Um, 438 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,879 S2: but nothing prepares you for that moment. Like with diabetes, 439 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,960 S2: where you're told you can't fix your son, you can't 440 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,159 S2: fix this. And that's that's I think it's hard for 441 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,840 S2: any parent, but I hear it so much from dads 442 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,159 S2: who feel like they're the provider or it happened on 443 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,240 S2: their watch, or somehow they they internalize this like they're 444 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,880 S2: to blame for it. I should have done something better 445 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,880 S2: or right. And it's not the case, but it but, 446 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,480 S2: you know, uh, one of the craziest scenes in the 447 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,360 S2: movie for me, and I didn't know they were going 448 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,920 S2: to do it this way, was when Bart gives Sam 449 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,760 S2: his first shot in the hospital, and, uh. And Sam says, daddy, 450 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,679 S2: you're hurting me. And they summed up what I felt 451 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,960 S2: most of my adult life of, you know, I didn't 452 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,800 S2: lay a hand on my son, but he's saying the 453 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,959 S2: same things that I said when that happened to me 454 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,119 S2: as a kid, that. Why are you hurting me, daddy? Why? 455 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,880 S2: Why are you doing this? And whether I'm giving him 456 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,639 S2: a shot or it's my dad hitting me, it's the 457 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,600 S2: same result. And that ripped my heart out as a 458 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,000 S2: parent to hear that even though I'm trying to keep 459 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:32,050 S2: him alive. And, um, and so, yeah, it's, that's the 460 00:23:32,050 --> 00:23:34,530 S2: crazy part about kind of this why we told the 461 00:23:34,530 --> 00:23:36,890 S2: story was, you know, not only at the height of 462 00:23:36,890 --> 00:23:39,250 S2: my success and I swore I'd never do the same 463 00:23:39,250 --> 00:23:43,050 S2: things that my dad did. But still, I'm getting similar 464 00:23:43,050 --> 00:23:45,690 S2: results from a standpoint of my. My child is still 465 00:23:45,690 --> 00:23:48,570 S2: in pain, and my child is connecting me with that pain. 466 00:23:49,090 --> 00:23:52,890 S2: And and it was it was it did it did 467 00:23:52,930 --> 00:23:56,370 S2: a number on my on me mentally and just emotionally 468 00:23:56,850 --> 00:24:00,650 S2: that it's like I, you know. Yeah. It's just to 469 00:24:00,690 --> 00:24:02,810 S2: try to do everything right. You try to, you know, 470 00:24:02,850 --> 00:24:07,250 S2: to get it right and life still happens. Yeah. And um, 471 00:24:07,250 --> 00:24:10,489 S2: and you still the difference between, you know, we may 472 00:24:10,490 --> 00:24:12,889 S2: have a neighbor that's an incredible person. And my kid or, 473 00:24:12,930 --> 00:24:14,770 S2: you know, everybody has that uncle they love to hang 474 00:24:14,770 --> 00:24:16,890 S2: out with or the grandparents that can send the kids 475 00:24:16,890 --> 00:24:19,409 S2: home when they're difficult. But as a parent, you got 476 00:24:19,450 --> 00:24:21,250 S2: to be the heavy, like, you got to play all 477 00:24:21,250 --> 00:24:25,330 S2: those roles and uh, and still, you know, love your 478 00:24:25,330 --> 00:24:28,379 S2: kid and support them. But then, yeah, it's just a 479 00:24:28,420 --> 00:24:31,260 S2: being a parent. It's it's the struggle is very real. 480 00:24:32,420 --> 00:24:35,379 S1: Well and Shannon you you probably saw that in him. 481 00:24:35,380 --> 00:24:37,900 S1: But you can't fix that for him either, right. 482 00:24:38,940 --> 00:24:41,619 S4: No. And the interesting part is we've known each other 483 00:24:41,619 --> 00:24:46,260 S4: since I was 13. He was 15. And we're best 484 00:24:46,260 --> 00:24:49,300 S4: friends and did so much together growing up. And it 485 00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:54,740 S4: wasn't until after even this circumstance that I started to 486 00:24:54,780 --> 00:24:57,780 S4: learn about how bad his home life really was. So 487 00:24:57,780 --> 00:25:01,820 S4: in that moment, I couldn't necessarily relate to what he 488 00:25:01,820 --> 00:25:05,380 S4: was feeling because I didn't know how bad it was. 489 00:25:05,820 --> 00:25:09,260 S4: So he's holding all those emotions inside. 490 00:25:09,980 --> 00:25:14,020 S1: So it takes what you're describing is work, you know? 491 00:25:14,060 --> 00:25:16,220 S1: And marriage is not supposed to be work. It's just 492 00:25:16,220 --> 00:25:18,780 S1: supposed to be easy. You fall in love. You love 493 00:25:18,780 --> 00:25:21,580 S1: each other, you bring roses, flowers, whatever. 494 00:25:21,619 --> 00:25:22,260 S2: It's so easy. 495 00:25:22,540 --> 00:25:25,940 S1: And and it's not. And and so I think somebody 496 00:25:25,940 --> 00:25:30,140 S1: needed to hear your discussion with us today. Bart and 497 00:25:30,140 --> 00:25:34,140 S1: Shannon Millard, the book, even if Trusting God through the 498 00:25:34,140 --> 00:25:36,980 S1: Fire and maybe You're Going Through a fire today. The 499 00:25:36,980 --> 00:25:40,500 S1: film I Can Only Imagine two comes out in February. 500 00:25:40,660 --> 00:25:45,220 S1: You can find out more at our website. Chris. Chris. 501 00:25:47,740 --> 00:25:50,100 S1: We're going to get to that song even if coming 502 00:25:50,100 --> 00:25:52,260 S1: up straight ahead on Moody Radio. 503 00:26:06,619 --> 00:26:13,020 S7: They say sometimes you win some, sometimes you lose some. 504 00:26:15,380 --> 00:26:25,109 S7: And right now, right now I'm losing bad. I've stood 505 00:26:25,109 --> 00:26:31,270 S7: on this stage night after night, reminding the broken. It'll 506 00:26:31,350 --> 00:26:37,190 S7: be all right. But right now. All right. Now I 507 00:26:37,230 --> 00:26:45,110 S7: just can't. It's easy to sing when there's nothing to 508 00:26:45,150 --> 00:26:52,990 S7: bring me down. But what will I sing when I'm 509 00:26:52,990 --> 00:27:00,149 S7: held to the flame. Like I am right now. I know. 510 00:27:00,150 --> 00:27:00,630 S5: You're. 511 00:27:00,630 --> 00:27:05,510 S7: Able. And I know you can save through the fire 512 00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:12,510 S7: with your mighty hand. But even if you don't. My 513 00:27:12,510 --> 00:27:21,910 S7: hope is you alone. They say it only takes a 514 00:27:21,910 --> 00:27:31,680 S7: little faith. To move a mountain. Well, good things. A 515 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:39,159 S7: little faith is all I have right now. God, when 516 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:47,959 S7: you choose to leave mountains unmovable. Oh, give me the 517 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:53,120 S7: strength to be able to sing. It is well with 518 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,840 S7: my soul. I know you're able. And I know you 519 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:04,520 S7: can save through the fire with your mighty hand. But 520 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,360 S7: even if you don't. 521 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,680 S5: My hope is you alone. 522 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,639 S7: I know the sorrow. And I know the hurt would 523 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,970 S7: all go away. If you just say the word. But 524 00:28:21,970 --> 00:28:30,170 S7: even if you don't, my hope is, you know, you've 525 00:28:30,170 --> 00:28:39,290 S7: been faithful. You've been good all of my days. Jesus, 526 00:28:39,290 --> 00:28:47,090 S7: I will cling to you come what may. Cause I 527 00:28:47,090 --> 00:28:58,290 S7: know you're able. I know you care. I know you're able. 528 00:28:58,690 --> 00:29:03,050 S7: And I know you can see through the fire with 529 00:29:03,050 --> 00:29:10,090 S7: your mighty heart. But even if you don't. My hope 530 00:29:10,370 --> 00:29:17,010 S7: is you alone. I know the sorrow. I know the 531 00:29:17,010 --> 00:29:21,930 S7: hope would all go away. If you just say the word. 532 00:29:22,290 --> 00:29:29,610 S7: But even if you don't, my hope is you alone. 533 00:29:38,850 --> 00:29:49,530 S7: I hope you were alone. It is well. 534 00:29:51,490 --> 00:30:02,410 S8: With my soul. It is well. It is well with 535 00:30:02,610 --> 00:30:04,130 S8: my soul. 536 00:30:07,370 --> 00:30:10,090 S1: I wasn't going to play the whole song there. And then, 537 00:30:10,090 --> 00:30:12,450 S1: as I'm listening to it, it's like I know there's 538 00:30:12,450 --> 00:30:15,170 S1: somebody who needs to hear that, because I know I 539 00:30:15,170 --> 00:30:19,860 S1: needed to hear that today. Even if. Mercy me, Bart Millard, 540 00:30:19,860 --> 00:30:23,940 S1: Shannon Millard have written the book, even if Trusting God 541 00:30:23,940 --> 00:30:26,340 S1: Through the Fire and then the film I Can Only 542 00:30:26,340 --> 00:30:31,100 S1: Imagine two is coming out in February as well. So that, um, 543 00:30:31,860 --> 00:30:35,420 S1: that that hymn is plays a part in the whole 544 00:30:35,620 --> 00:30:38,540 S1: film as well. It is well with my soul, and 545 00:30:38,540 --> 00:30:41,460 S1: I won't go into all of that, but throughout the 546 00:30:41,460 --> 00:30:43,500 S1: film it's like, okay, Bart, what are you going to 547 00:30:43,500 --> 00:30:45,500 S1: do next? How are you going to top? I can 548 00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:48,380 S1: only imagine. What are you going? The pressure and the stress. 549 00:30:48,380 --> 00:30:51,540 S1: And you're looking for this thing. And this eventually was 550 00:30:51,540 --> 00:30:53,860 S1: the song that came out of it, but it it 551 00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:57,060 S1: was a circuitous route to get to it, wasn't it? 552 00:30:58,340 --> 00:31:00,180 S2: Yeah. It had been a lot easier if it was like, yep, 553 00:31:00,180 --> 00:31:01,620 S2: I got one. Let me whip it up for you 554 00:31:01,620 --> 00:31:05,820 S2: real quick. But no, it's uh um, yeah, it took 555 00:31:05,820 --> 00:31:08,580 S2: a lot to, you know, that that song was an 556 00:31:08,580 --> 00:31:11,020 S2: overflow of a struggle that we were, you know, in 557 00:31:11,020 --> 00:31:14,380 S2: the middle of. And you know, that you mentioned something 558 00:31:14,380 --> 00:31:18,270 S2: earlier about, you know, having your son having diabetes in 559 00:31:18,310 --> 00:31:20,790 S2: that moment to where they become like, especially when they're 560 00:31:20,790 --> 00:31:23,270 S2: about to start driving, when they got to take some 561 00:31:23,270 --> 00:31:26,670 S2: responsibility and learn how to take care of themselves. Well, 562 00:31:26,950 --> 00:31:28,990 S2: that was about the time Sam was diagnosed. When he 563 00:31:28,990 --> 00:31:31,470 S2: was two, he was probably 15. He was, I think 564 00:31:31,470 --> 00:31:34,110 S2: he was about to get his learner's permit. And our endocrinologist, 565 00:31:34,110 --> 00:31:36,950 S2: we went to a checkup and he said, you know, 566 00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:40,750 S2: it's time to start letting him take responsibility. Uh, you know, 567 00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:43,870 S2: learn his schedules and counting his carbs and all that. 568 00:31:43,870 --> 00:31:46,230 S2: And he goes, there's definitely gonna be a learning curve. Like, 569 00:31:46,270 --> 00:31:48,430 S2: you know, give yourself some grace. It's going to be tough. 570 00:31:48,430 --> 00:31:49,989 S2: And it may be a little out of levels, may 571 00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:51,630 S2: be out of control for a little bit. But he's 572 00:31:51,630 --> 00:31:54,430 S2: got to learn. And we're like, okay, well then, you know, 573 00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:57,150 S2: every checkups about six months. And so the next checkup 574 00:31:57,150 --> 00:32:00,950 S2: I don't know if we either he quit retired or 575 00:32:00,950 --> 00:32:03,390 S2: we moved on. We had a new endocrinologist. Bottom line 576 00:32:03,390 --> 00:32:05,750 S2: is who didn't get the memo of what we were 577 00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:09,470 S2: told that we need to start doing. And so, uh, 578 00:32:09,470 --> 00:32:11,670 S2: this new endocrinologist, she walks in and one of the 579 00:32:11,670 --> 00:32:14,150 S2: first things she says is he'll be dead by 19 580 00:32:14,190 --> 00:32:17,550 S2: if you keep this up. And it was like, whoa. 581 00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:20,910 S2: And and, you know, at that point, I felt like 582 00:32:20,910 --> 00:32:22,790 S2: I was just my job was to keep my wife 583 00:32:22,790 --> 00:32:25,550 S2: from fighting the doctor. But, uh, but we were able 584 00:32:25,550 --> 00:32:27,830 S2: to explain what we were in the middle of, and 585 00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:30,350 S2: she and, you know, and everything was fine. She became 586 00:32:30,350 --> 00:32:34,390 S2: a dear friend. She apologized because she had seen patients 587 00:32:34,390 --> 00:32:37,030 S2: that day where parents just didn't care, didn't even come 588 00:32:37,030 --> 00:32:39,550 S2: to the appointment with some of the kids. And and 589 00:32:39,550 --> 00:32:42,110 S2: so she was coming from a tough spot too. But 590 00:32:42,590 --> 00:32:45,470 S2: in that man. Oh, another thing that happened is while 591 00:32:45,470 --> 00:32:48,190 S2: we were about to go in that morning, we're driving 592 00:32:48,190 --> 00:32:50,190 S2: and we always get a little uptight when it's time 593 00:32:50,190 --> 00:32:52,469 S2: for these checkups because we know we've done something wrong. 594 00:32:52,510 --> 00:32:55,070 S2: And and we were pulling up and Shannon's like, yeah, 595 00:32:55,230 --> 00:32:57,790 S2: one of my good friends the other night and and 596 00:32:57,790 --> 00:33:00,390 S2: she was asking more about diabetes, wanting to know about 597 00:33:00,390 --> 00:33:02,270 S2: what we're going through. And in the middle of it, 598 00:33:02,270 --> 00:33:04,310 S2: she said, you know what? We're just going to pray 599 00:33:04,310 --> 00:33:07,870 S2: for healing. And it's funny because when Shannon told me that, 600 00:33:07,910 --> 00:33:10,390 S2: it immediately kind of ticked me off because I'm like, 601 00:33:10,430 --> 00:33:12,470 S2: I would have said like, oh, what a novel concept. 602 00:33:12,470 --> 00:33:16,920 S2: I've never thought to ask for healing in the 1412 603 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,479 S2: whatever years at that point that he's had this. And 604 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,360 S2: before I could say that, Shannon was like, it really 605 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,160 S2: upset me. And I was like, and she was feeling 606 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,400 S2: the exact same way. And I was like, who does 607 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,720 S2: she think? Like, that's the first thing we've done. That's 608 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,760 S2: what we always do, like, you know. But anyway, so 609 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,600 S2: we walked in, kind of worked up and then this happens. 610 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,800 S2: And endocrinologists and I had a writing session with Tim 611 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,720 S2: Timmons that day after the appointment. And so I go 612 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,880 S2: and Tim gets the brunt of me just unloading on 613 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,000 S2: just I've had it with everything. I'm tired of people 614 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,520 S2: thinking I'm this professional Christian that's supposed to have it 615 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,880 S2: all together, when rarely do I ever have anything together. 616 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,760 S2: And it's like, you know, and and a lot of 617 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,800 S2: the songs I write are more, more wishful thinking of 618 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,840 S2: what I want to be one day and not what 619 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,200 S2: I already am, even imagine. I can only imagine those 620 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,760 S2: questions were not because I'm the super Christians, because somebody 621 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,360 S2: told me at 19 when my dad died that if 622 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,719 S2: he could choose, he'd rather be heaven than here. And 623 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,210 S2: it kind of upset me. I I was like, what's 624 00:34:14,210 --> 00:34:16,770 S2: so great about God that I'm second? Why would he 625 00:34:16,770 --> 00:34:20,089 S2: choose that over me? So those questions originally weren't from 626 00:34:20,090 --> 00:34:22,569 S2: me being super holy guy. It was me really wanting 627 00:34:22,570 --> 00:34:25,330 S2: to know, okay, God. And he showed me how amazing 628 00:34:25,330 --> 00:34:29,770 S2: he was in that process. Um, in this situation, I 629 00:34:29,810 --> 00:34:32,050 S2: remember telling Tim in the session, I was like, man, 630 00:34:32,370 --> 00:34:35,690 S2: I just, I, I would love to be like Shadrach, Meshach, 631 00:34:35,690 --> 00:34:38,490 S2: and Abednego who can stand in the furnace and say, 632 00:34:38,530 --> 00:34:40,610 S2: I know God will deliver us. But even if he doesn't, 633 00:34:40,610 --> 00:34:42,730 S2: I'm still not going to bow. I've loved to be 634 00:34:42,730 --> 00:34:45,250 S2: those dudes, but I'm not. And I was just. And 635 00:34:45,250 --> 00:34:46,970 S2: I've had it. I feel like I'm being a fake 636 00:34:46,969 --> 00:34:49,969 S2: and all this stuff and and the whole time, Tim's 637 00:34:49,969 --> 00:34:52,450 S2: just kind of grinning at me, and and I thought 638 00:34:52,450 --> 00:34:54,370 S2: he was. I thought he was playing the wrap It 639 00:34:54,370 --> 00:34:56,890 S2: up music award show. Like, my speech went too long 640 00:34:56,930 --> 00:34:59,330 S2: and kind of ticked me off because he's always never 641 00:34:59,330 --> 00:35:01,410 S2: very serious. So I left and said, I'm out, and 642 00:35:01,450 --> 00:35:03,810 S2: I'm we're not writing today. And he sent me a 643 00:35:03,810 --> 00:35:05,569 S2: text and said, hey, I've been trying to write this 644 00:35:05,570 --> 00:35:08,050 S2: same song for five years and sent me the chorus 645 00:35:08,050 --> 00:35:10,649 S2: to Even if and and it wrecked me like, never 646 00:35:10,650 --> 00:35:13,420 S2: saw it coming. I remember crying in the car and 647 00:35:13,420 --> 00:35:16,660 S2: we finished it the next day or so and, and, 648 00:35:17,020 --> 00:35:18,620 S2: you know, and I wouldn't have it any other way. 649 00:35:18,620 --> 00:35:21,060 S2: That song was selfishly just for me at that moment. 650 00:35:21,060 --> 00:35:22,779 S2: It wasn't like, hey, we have a smash hit, or 651 00:35:22,780 --> 00:35:25,859 S2: we have this. It was for nobody but me. And 652 00:35:25,860 --> 00:35:28,740 S2: then the moment we sing it live and people respond, 653 00:35:28,739 --> 00:35:30,980 S2: it was the first time that I realized, oh, thank 654 00:35:30,980 --> 00:35:33,020 S2: God I'm not alone in this. Like, it's not just 655 00:35:33,020 --> 00:35:35,780 S2: about connecting with them. It's what they did for me 656 00:35:35,940 --> 00:35:38,420 S2: in that moment of like, I'm not going through this 657 00:35:38,420 --> 00:35:41,620 S2: by myself anymore. And and that was the beginning of, 658 00:35:41,620 --> 00:35:43,500 S2: of some healing that had to take place. 659 00:35:43,860 --> 00:35:45,939 S1: Well, and not to make it all about numbers and, 660 00:35:45,980 --> 00:35:48,300 S1: you know, listens and all that. But it was actually 661 00:35:48,340 --> 00:35:53,260 S1: that that even if was received, uh, much quicker even 662 00:35:53,260 --> 00:35:55,500 S1: than I can only imagine, I can only imagine took 663 00:35:55,500 --> 00:35:59,620 S1: a long time in order for it to to grow. Right? 664 00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:03,060 S2: Yeah. I mean, I'm sure part of it's the the 665 00:36:03,100 --> 00:36:06,259 S2: power of technology and streaming and how fast music gets 666 00:36:06,260 --> 00:36:09,420 S2: to the, to the fan. But yeah, it, um, you know, 667 00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:12,060 S2: it's definitely our biggest song, but even if it's kind 668 00:36:12,100 --> 00:36:13,500 S2: of right up there and it kind of, you know, 669 00:36:13,540 --> 00:36:16,380 S2: since 20, it was released in 2017. And so it 670 00:36:16,580 --> 00:36:18,819 S2: kind of out of nowhere just it just kind of 671 00:36:18,860 --> 00:36:21,739 S2: took off. And so. Yeah, and so, I mean, we 672 00:36:21,739 --> 00:36:23,860 S2: never thought there was going to be a sequel, uh, 673 00:36:24,020 --> 00:36:27,259 S2: and it was never meant to be the continuation story 674 00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:29,180 S2: of one of the producers just wanted to make a 675 00:36:29,180 --> 00:36:31,700 S2: movie around the song, even if because they loved it 676 00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:35,060 S2: so much. And and when they heard how it came about, 677 00:36:35,060 --> 00:36:37,219 S2: they said, well, that's the movie. This is going to 678 00:36:37,219 --> 00:36:39,259 S2: be a sequel. And I was like, I, I couldn't 679 00:36:39,260 --> 00:36:41,660 S2: wrap my head around it. It was my daughter who said, well, 680 00:36:42,020 --> 00:36:44,299 S2: it sounds like for a sequel for a songwriter would 681 00:36:44,300 --> 00:36:46,180 S2: just be the next song. And I was able to 682 00:36:46,180 --> 00:36:48,819 S2: wrap my head around that. And so yes, yes, yeah. And, 683 00:36:48,820 --> 00:36:50,420 S2: and was able to get on board with it. 684 00:36:50,420 --> 00:36:53,020 S1: Well, and again, here it is. You know, we've been 685 00:36:53,020 --> 00:36:55,660 S1: talking about this for a long time. It's not the 686 00:36:55,700 --> 00:36:59,180 S1: outcome that, you know, that is the important thing. Although 687 00:36:59,219 --> 00:37:03,300 S1: we all want good outcomes. Sure. It's the process and 688 00:37:03,300 --> 00:37:06,219 S1: what the process does to you and the process and 689 00:37:06,219 --> 00:37:10,830 S1: the pain and the struggle is a sign of life. Uh, 690 00:37:10,830 --> 00:37:13,190 S1: and and you brought it to the page in the book, 691 00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:16,150 S1: even if trusting God through the fire. And then in 692 00:37:16,150 --> 00:37:18,790 S1: the new film that comes out February, I can only 693 00:37:18,790 --> 00:37:22,790 S1: imagine two Bart and Shannon Millard are with us today 694 00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:25,390 S1: at the radio backyard fence. Find out more at Chris 695 00:37:25,430 --> 00:37:26,630 S1: Fabry lives. 696 00:37:29,950 --> 00:37:36,989 S7: My hope is you alone. I know the sorrow. And 697 00:37:36,989 --> 00:37:41,230 S7: I know the hurt would all go away. If you 698 00:37:41,230 --> 00:37:47,830 S7: just say the word. But even if you don't, my 699 00:37:47,830 --> 00:37:52,910 S7: hope is you know you've been faithful. 700 00:37:54,270 --> 00:37:59,070 S8: You've been good all of my days. 701 00:38:05,230 --> 00:38:07,910 S1: There was an awful lot that went right in their 702 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:12,160 S1: lives after that song. I can only imagine. But there 703 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,799 S1: was an awful lot of life that happened as well. 704 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,280 S1: And the main question that is kind of hanging over 705 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,840 S1: Bart and Shannon Millard's life is, Is God still good 706 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,959 S1: even when our world is falling apart? And maybe that's 707 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,800 S1: where you are today with a diagnosis, or there's been 708 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,359 S1: some fracture in relationships or something has happened in your 709 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,560 S1: life and you're asking that question, God, where where are you? 710 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,200 S1: What are you doing here? I don't understand that. And 711 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,560 S1: it's okay that you ask those questions. As a matter 712 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,359 S1: of fact, it's more than okay. You ought to ask 713 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,680 S1: the question. The psalmist did it. And in the book, 714 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,560 S1: even if trusting God through the fire, Bart and Shannon 715 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,520 S1: kind of work this out through their experience over the 716 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,479 S1: last few years. And in the film, I can only 717 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,800 S1: imagine two that's coming out in February. We have links 718 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,440 S1: to both of those at Kris Shannon, what is your 719 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,719 S1: hope if somebody comes to that, to that film and 720 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,359 S1: sits there and watches this play out in front of them. 721 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:10,360 S1: What's your hope? 722 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,680 S4: My hope is that they'll start to understand type one 723 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,360 S4: diabetes and the different. That there is a difference between 724 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,759 S4: type two and type one. Um, having a child and 725 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,400 S4: a toddler with type one. Many people came up to 726 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,359 S4: me and they were not intending to bring guilt upon me, 727 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,359 S4: but just saying, did you feed him too much sugar? 728 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,400 S4: Is he overweight for a 3 or 4 year old 729 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,600 S4: is devastating as a parent, because you're trying to do 730 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,719 S4: all you can to take care of them. And I 731 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,040 S4: realized in all of those small little bits of conversations 732 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:48,839 S4: with strangers that no one understands type one. And I 733 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,719 S4: think it's just has become really important for me as 734 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,799 S4: a mom, for the world to understand type one, so 735 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,359 S4: they can then understand my son's struggles and journey and 736 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,560 S4: have more compassion on people with type one. Yeah. 737 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,120 S1: And then when you find somebody who gets it, you know, 738 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,970 S1: somebody who's been that, it's like your lifelong friends then, right? 739 00:40:08,250 --> 00:40:10,170 S4: Exactly. Exactly. 740 00:40:10,690 --> 00:40:11,370 S1: I remember. 741 00:40:11,450 --> 00:40:12,569 S4: Automatically connected. 742 00:40:12,690 --> 00:40:15,930 S1: Going to a speaking. It was a it was a book, 743 00:40:16,489 --> 00:40:19,410 S1: an award program. And I sat next to Randy Alcorn, 744 00:40:19,410 --> 00:40:24,930 S1: and I saw him pull out his vial and his needle, 745 00:40:25,370 --> 00:40:27,850 S1: and I said, do you have type one? Yeah, I do. 746 00:40:27,890 --> 00:40:30,330 S1: I've had it for, you know, most of his life. 747 00:40:30,370 --> 00:40:33,610 S1: And it's like my son. And immediately we just started 748 00:40:33,610 --> 00:40:37,250 S1: talking about A1c's and all of this. And so you 749 00:40:37,250 --> 00:40:39,810 S1: have somebody there and and, you know, and Randy's had 750 00:40:39,810 --> 00:40:43,330 S1: this his whole life. It is so, so life giving 751 00:40:43,330 --> 00:40:46,730 S1: hope filled to see someone who's further down the trail, 752 00:40:46,890 --> 00:40:49,170 S1: who has had type one their whole life. You know, 753 00:40:49,210 --> 00:40:52,490 S1: because there are those horror stories and really bad things 754 00:40:52,489 --> 00:40:55,850 S1: that can happen to you. Um, Bart, how did you 755 00:40:55,850 --> 00:41:01,330 S1: get over, though? Answer this. The the guilt, the, um, 756 00:41:02,450 --> 00:41:05,259 S1: not being able to be as connected with your kids 757 00:41:05,260 --> 00:41:08,180 S1: as you wanted to. And the struggle with depression and 758 00:41:08,180 --> 00:41:11,940 S1: all that. How did you get over letting that hold 759 00:41:11,940 --> 00:41:15,980 S1: you back? And then, you know, being present, moving toward them? 760 00:41:18,140 --> 00:41:19,460 S2: Uh, I'd have to give a lot of credit to 761 00:41:19,460 --> 00:41:23,219 S2: my wife. We, um, during my son was diagnosed in 2004, 762 00:41:23,219 --> 00:41:25,299 S2: and we had a lot of tragic things happen over 763 00:41:25,300 --> 00:41:28,540 S2: that year. And, um, and that kind of put me 764 00:41:28,540 --> 00:41:33,500 S2: into a depression for years to come. And I don't 765 00:41:33,500 --> 00:41:36,460 S2: know if I was ever able to pinpoint, you know, it. 766 00:41:36,620 --> 00:41:38,379 S2: You know, sometimes I'd say it's because of a loved 767 00:41:38,380 --> 00:41:42,339 S2: one that passed away. And and, you know, I never 768 00:41:42,340 --> 00:41:44,980 S2: really put it on diabetes because these things at the 769 00:41:44,980 --> 00:41:47,860 S2: time seemed worse than that. My kid has to have shots, 770 00:41:47,860 --> 00:41:51,260 S2: but he's he's somewhat healthy. And and over the years 771 00:41:51,260 --> 00:41:54,220 S2: the depression got worse and worse and worse. And um, 772 00:41:54,380 --> 00:41:56,940 S2: and at one point my wife started going to basically 773 00:41:56,940 --> 00:42:01,020 S2: grief counseling and just and I for some reason, I 774 00:42:01,020 --> 00:42:02,739 S2: didn't go whether I was busy or just didn't think 775 00:42:02,739 --> 00:42:05,620 S2: I needed it. And one day Shannon was like, hey, 776 00:42:06,020 --> 00:42:07,660 S2: my counselors want you to come and just kind of 777 00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:09,779 S2: hear the progress I'm making just so you could see it. 778 00:42:09,780 --> 00:42:12,140 S2: And I was like, all right, cool. So I go 779 00:42:12,140 --> 00:42:13,859 S2: and as soon as I sit down, Shannon's like, I 780 00:42:13,860 --> 00:42:15,620 S2: gotta go to the restroom or something. And she leaves 781 00:42:15,620 --> 00:42:17,980 S2: and I realize I just got ambushed. Like, this is 782 00:42:17,980 --> 00:42:22,860 S2: my session right now. And the second the therapist was like, 783 00:42:22,900 --> 00:42:25,340 S2: she goes, she asked about my childhood and I clammed 784 00:42:25,340 --> 00:42:30,620 S2: up pretty quickly and and but eventually started unpacking. Um, 785 00:42:30,780 --> 00:42:34,500 S2: you know, this depression that 2004 was the iceberg to 786 00:42:34,540 --> 00:42:37,420 S2: something much greater and the tip of the iceberg and 787 00:42:37,660 --> 00:42:41,300 S2: and just, um, the amount of shame and guilt I 788 00:42:41,340 --> 00:42:44,180 S2: pile on, not just when my son is sick, but 789 00:42:44,180 --> 00:42:46,500 S2: I do it with everything. If an order goes wrong 790 00:42:46,540 --> 00:42:50,540 S2: at chick fil A, I struggle with not being the 791 00:42:50,540 --> 00:42:52,779 S2: one to blame. And it's been something that's been in 792 00:42:52,820 --> 00:42:55,500 S2: me since the days where I was abused as a 793 00:42:55,500 --> 00:42:59,020 S2: kid and thinking it was always my fault, and what 794 00:42:59,020 --> 00:43:01,629 S2: pulled me out of it was going to these sessions 795 00:43:01,989 --> 00:43:06,350 S2: and having this amazing person start showing me my identity 796 00:43:06,350 --> 00:43:09,670 S2: in Christ and understanding what grace really is. And, uh, 797 00:43:09,870 --> 00:43:13,989 S2: and the more I grasped, like how God sees me 798 00:43:13,989 --> 00:43:17,430 S2: on my worst possible day because of Christ in me, 799 00:43:17,430 --> 00:43:20,830 S2: I'm still remain holy. That was something that if it 800 00:43:20,830 --> 00:43:23,470 S2: was said to me as a kid, it didn't register. And, 801 00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:25,910 S2: you know, I have fond memories of my church and 802 00:43:25,910 --> 00:43:27,310 S2: and I grew up in the same church. She has 803 00:43:27,310 --> 00:43:31,310 S2: amazing memories. And like I, I have a I look 804 00:43:31,310 --> 00:43:34,310 S2: back and like it felt very legalistic. Whether it's what 805 00:43:34,310 --> 00:43:36,830 S2: they were teaching or how I received it, all I 806 00:43:36,830 --> 00:43:38,910 S2: heard was if I do x, Y, and Z, I'll 807 00:43:38,910 --> 00:43:42,870 S2: be accepted, I'll be safe. And um, and especially coming 808 00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:46,110 S2: from when I was coming from. And so to understand that, hey, 809 00:43:46,430 --> 00:43:49,350 S2: there is nothing you can do, good or bad, that 810 00:43:49,350 --> 00:43:52,030 S2: can make Jesus love you any more than he does already, 811 00:43:52,030 --> 00:43:56,990 S2: right now. That was like discovering fire for me. And, uh, and, uh, 812 00:43:57,190 --> 00:43:59,710 S2: what I realized is I've never been able to truly 813 00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:04,200 S2: rest in the fact that that I've never been able 814 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:05,920 S2: to rest in the finished work of the cross, to 815 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,280 S2: be honest with you. And and once that sunk in, 816 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,319 S2: everything changed my perspective. The way I parent, the way 817 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,040 S2: I'm a husband. That's what I meant by, you know, 818 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:16,719 S2: a few years ago, Shannon and I got to this 819 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,520 S2: point during that season of in a healthy way, not 820 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,920 S2: caring anymore and saying no to things and, and and 821 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,879 S2: not worried about what people think of us because, you know, 822 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:31,200 S2: we were truly resting in what Jesus thinks. See how 823 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:32,680 S2: he sees us and what he thinks of us. And 824 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,080 S2: it changed everything. And that's genuinely what pulled me out 825 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,799 S2: of this depression, was being able to let go and 826 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,239 S2: know that I'm okay. Like, it was like I wrote 827 00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,359 S2: a song called Dear Younger Me right in the middle 828 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,360 S2: of those, you know, therapy therapy sessions. And, and it's, it's, 829 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,160 S2: you know, the most one of the most important lines 830 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,080 S2: I ever wrote. And it was so hard to write 831 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,600 S2: and sing out loud without crying was there's a line 832 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:56,879 S2: it's all about, if I could sit with that younger me, 833 00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:58,759 S2: what would I say to him? And it all all 834 00:44:58,850 --> 00:45:02,330 S2: comes down to saying, dear younger me, it's not your fault. 835 00:45:02,330 --> 00:45:04,690 S2: You were never meant to carry this beyond the cross, 836 00:45:04,690 --> 00:45:07,290 S2: and it's still one of the most powerful lines I've 837 00:45:07,610 --> 00:45:09,250 S2: ever tried to write. It's the thing I needed to 838 00:45:09,250 --> 00:45:11,530 S2: hear the most, and it's what set me free. 839 00:45:11,850 --> 00:45:14,050 S1: I think we did a whole program on that. We 840 00:45:14,050 --> 00:45:16,850 S1: played that song. We just asked people to respond, what 841 00:45:16,850 --> 00:45:19,370 S1: would you say to your younger self? And it strikes 842 00:45:19,370 --> 00:45:22,890 S1: me as we end here. Shannon, this fella, you met 843 00:45:22,890 --> 00:45:26,730 S1: him when you were 13. This is a different fellow today, 844 00:45:26,890 --> 00:45:28,170 S1: isn't it? Isn't he? 845 00:45:28,210 --> 00:45:29,650 S4: Yes. Yeah, yeah. 846 00:45:30,410 --> 00:45:33,010 S1: And the other thing I'll say to you, Bart, is 847 00:45:33,370 --> 00:45:38,130 S1: it takes courage to do what you did to not 848 00:45:38,210 --> 00:45:40,090 S1: just go to the. You were going to the counselor 849 00:45:40,090 --> 00:45:42,930 S1: because you thought you were helping Shannon. But you went 850 00:45:42,930 --> 00:45:47,450 S1: there and you kept going back. That takes courage, you know? 851 00:45:47,489 --> 00:45:51,450 S1: And that's where God's strength can be poured into you. 852 00:45:51,489 --> 00:45:54,330 S1: Where you overcome these things. And that what you talked 853 00:45:54,330 --> 00:45:59,290 S1: about rest and what you talked about with the guilt 854 00:45:59,290 --> 00:46:02,489 S1: and the shame and then the grief. We're going to 855 00:46:02,489 --> 00:46:06,370 S1: talk Monday with a fellow who's going through some fresh grief. Uh, 856 00:46:06,370 --> 00:46:08,410 S1: doctor Ray, Mitch is going to be with us Monday. 857 00:46:08,410 --> 00:46:10,890 S1: We're going to talk about letting go with Doctor Rosalie 858 00:46:10,930 --> 00:46:13,210 S1: De Rosette on Tuesday. So all of these things fit 859 00:46:13,210 --> 00:46:16,570 S1: in together. Thank you for sharing your heart, your music, 860 00:46:16,610 --> 00:46:19,890 S1: your life, your kids. Give Sam a big hug. You 861 00:46:19,930 --> 00:46:23,170 S1: got to see the film. People just got to go see. 862 00:46:23,210 --> 00:46:26,129 S1: I can only imagine two when it comes out. And 863 00:46:26,130 --> 00:46:29,850 S1: the book is even if trusting God through the fire. 864 00:46:30,170 --> 00:46:32,930 S1: Art Shannon, thanks for spending some time with us today. 865 00:46:33,650 --> 00:46:34,890 S2: Thank you for having us. 866 00:46:35,810 --> 00:46:39,129 S1: What a treat and thank you, friend for listening in. 867 00:46:39,130 --> 00:46:42,410 S1: Stay warm this weekend wherever you are. And remember, Chris 868 00:46:42,489 --> 00:46:45,850 S1: Fabry live is production of Moody Radio, a ministry of 869 00:46:45,890 --> 00:46:48,450 S1: Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.