WEBVTT - A Simple Guide for a Better Marriage | Gary Chapman and John Hinkley 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:10.080 Fit widget A into slot Q and tighten screw. Okay. 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:14.440 Ever wish marriage came with a set of easy instructions. 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:21.239 But not too tight or the wood might crack. Oh boy. 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:25.120 God uses everything in our lives to work in us, 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:27.440 and then ultimately work through us to help others. 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:31.000 Sometimes there's a cost to unconditional love. It seeks what's 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:34.839 best for our spouse even when they're not interested in 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:37.160 our needs and our situation. 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.519 Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:48.640 the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Today, 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.600 we present a simple guide to making marriage better from 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:54.040 the co-authors of a new book that just might be 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:56.320 the key to a relational reset. 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:59.800 And if you go to building relationships, you will see 0:00:59.940 --> 0:01:02.140 the book that we're talking about today, A Simple Guide 0:01:02.140 --> 0:01:06.940 for a Better Marriage. Quick, practical insights. Every couple needs 0:01:06.940 --> 0:01:11.380 to thrive. Again, go to building relationships. Gary, I think 0:01:11.380 --> 0:01:13.260 this is going to be a fun program because not 0:01:13.260 --> 0:01:16.220 only do we get to hear some practical help from marriage. 0:01:16.500 --> 0:01:18.380 We get to meet a man who has worked behind 0:01:18.380 --> 0:01:21.140 the scenes of your ministry for a lot of years. 0:01:21.500 --> 0:01:26.580 Well, you're right, Chris. John Hinckley and I have worked together. Oh, 0:01:26.740 --> 0:01:29.660 John might remember the exact year, but it's been a 0:01:29.700 --> 0:01:32.700 long time, I know that. And he's helped in many, 0:01:32.700 --> 0:01:36.539 many ways. Uh, works for Moody Publishers. And I was 0:01:36.540 --> 0:01:39.060 really glad that he joined with me in writing this 0:01:39.060 --> 0:01:42.819 particular book. So I'm excited about our conversation today. 0:01:43.020 --> 0:01:45.539 Well, let me introduce our guest, John Hinckley. He and 0:01:45.540 --> 0:01:48.820 his wife, Triss have been married for more than 40 years, 0:01:48.940 --> 0:01:52.100 and they have three adult children. For the last 35 years, 0:01:52.100 --> 0:01:56.060 he's worked for Moody Publishers in Chicago, where he currently 0:01:56.060 --> 0:01:59.760 serves as an acquisitions editor. John and Chris live in 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:03.400 Northwest Indiana and served together as directors of their church's 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:07.040 counseling ministry and are featured. Resource is the book by 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:11.440 John and Doctor Chapman. A Simple Guide for a Better Marriage. Quick, 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:15.600 practical insights every couple needs to thrive. Find out more 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:17.600 about it at Building Relationships. 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:21.720 Well, John, welcome to Building Relationships. 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.079 Thank you. It's such a privilege and a blessing to 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:28.080 be on this program with you, Gary. Appreciate it. 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:30.760 Yeah. We haven't done this before. We've done a lot 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:34.600 of conferences together, but we haven't done the radio program before, 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:38.200 so it's great to have you. Now, you and your wife, Chris, 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:42.720 have been married for more than 40 years. So take 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:45.320 us back to the early days. And what drew the 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:47.320 two of you together in the first place? 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:53.679 Yeah, well, we met in college, uh, 43 years ago. 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:58.130 We met through a mutual friend and, uh, you know, 0:02:58.169 --> 0:03:01.730 in our book, Gary, we talk about opposites attracting. 0:03:02.250 --> 0:03:02.690 Mhm. 0:03:02.810 --> 0:03:07.650 And from a personality standpoint, Triss and I were and 0:03:07.650 --> 0:03:12.570 are opposites. Uh, Triss is an off the scale extrovert, 0:03:12.930 --> 0:03:16.330 as you know. And I'm an introvert. She, she tends 0:03:16.330 --> 0:03:19.090 to be a night person. I'm a I'm a morning person. 0:03:19.810 --> 0:03:24.690 She can be a tad late to meetings and things. 0:03:25.730 --> 0:03:28.049 And I, I'm one who likes to be on time. 0:03:28.050 --> 0:03:31.690 She's she's much more spontaneous than me. Uh, I tend 0:03:31.690 --> 0:03:33.609 to be that kind of that planner. And I could 0:03:33.610 --> 0:03:37.610 go on and on, uh, about our differences. But we 0:03:37.610 --> 0:03:39.890 also had a lot of things in common. And I 0:03:39.890 --> 0:03:43.130 would say when we met, the most important thing was 0:03:43.130 --> 0:03:46.170 that we both followed Christ and we love the Lord. 0:03:46.170 --> 0:03:50.450 He was a high priority in our lives as individuals. Uh, 0:03:50.450 --> 0:03:54.050 we got married the year I graduated and started a family, 0:03:54.050 --> 0:03:58.270 and then within five years, I began working at Moody 0:03:58.270 --> 0:04:02.670 Bible Institute for Moody Publishers, and as you mentioned, we 0:04:02.670 --> 0:04:07.750 have three adult children Megan, Andrew and Graham. All three 0:04:07.750 --> 0:04:11.590 live close by, which is nice for us. Uh, one's 0:04:11.590 --> 0:04:15.070 very close, and Graham is still living in our home, and. 0:04:15.110 --> 0:04:19.230 And Andrew married the love of his life, Kayla, last fall. 0:04:19.270 --> 0:04:22.430 That was a wonderful time for all of us as 0:04:22.430 --> 0:04:26.870 a family. And I had the tremendous privilege of officiating. 0:04:26.870 --> 0:04:30.510 Their wedding is a great event. So. Yeah. Yeah. We 0:04:30.510 --> 0:04:32.510 love our family, as you can tell. 0:04:32.710 --> 0:04:34.950 Yeah. That's great. That's great. You know, as you were 0:04:34.950 --> 0:04:38.270 talking about all the differences between you and Chris, I 0:04:38.270 --> 0:04:40.750 was just cataloging with you because so many of those 0:04:40.790 --> 0:04:45.670 are true of me and Carolyn as well. The late thing, 0:04:45.670 --> 0:04:48.229 for example, you're my idea. Being on time is to 0:04:48.230 --> 0:04:50.910 be there 15 minutes before it starts hers. Get there 0:04:50.910 --> 0:04:58.170 five minutes after it starts. But many couples will identify 0:04:58.170 --> 0:05:01.410 with that, I think. Uh, not that everybody has, uh, 0:05:01.410 --> 0:05:05.370 you know, personality differences, but there are always some differences 0:05:05.370 --> 0:05:06.770 in every in every couple. 0:05:06.970 --> 0:05:09.410 John, I want to ask you, do you remember working 0:05:09.410 --> 0:05:12.170 on the five Love languages early on? Were you part 0:05:12.170 --> 0:05:12.770 of that? 0:05:13.250 --> 0:05:16.370 I was part of it, yeah. You know, it was 0:05:16.370 --> 0:05:19.809 Gary's third book. He had already written two books on 0:05:19.810 --> 0:05:25.409 marriage that were good selling books, and this one came 0:05:25.410 --> 0:05:28.130 The Five Love Languages in 1992. At the time, I 0:05:28.130 --> 0:05:32.170 was working in the marketing area for Moody Publishers, but 0:05:32.170 --> 0:05:36.610 I was strongly connected to the book. Uh, and one 0:05:36.610 --> 0:05:41.529 of the reasons why is because we launched this book 0:05:41.570 --> 0:05:45.089 as one of a very few in a new imprint, uh, 0:05:45.089 --> 0:05:51.490 that Moody Publishers was developing called Northfield Publishing. Northfield was 0:05:51.890 --> 0:05:57.070 named after the town in Massachusetts, where the evangelist D.L. 0:05:57.110 --> 0:06:01.910 Moody was born and raised. This imprint, Northfield, was created 0:06:02.350 --> 0:06:05.790 so we could put moody books in the mainstream market 0:06:06.070 --> 0:06:12.349 into into bookstores like Barnes and Noble and Books-a-million and 0:06:12.350 --> 0:06:18.190 borders and Be, Dalton and Walden and many other mainstream 0:06:18.190 --> 0:06:22.590 stores that have since become extinct. So much of books 0:06:22.589 --> 0:06:26.549 these days are sold online. As you know, Northfield books 0:06:26.550 --> 0:06:30.230 were based on the truth of God's Word, but they 0:06:30.230 --> 0:06:34.589 didn't include some of the words, the vernacular that is 0:06:34.589 --> 0:06:37.510 so common in the church. We in other words, we 0:06:37.510 --> 0:06:42.670 didn't use theological words that might become a stumbling block 0:06:42.670 --> 0:06:46.550 for readers who didn't regularly go to church. So the 0:06:46.550 --> 0:06:50.990 books were kind of considered pre evangelistic. Yes, they were 0:06:50.990 --> 0:06:55.490 designed to open doors to readers who might become receptive 0:06:55.490 --> 0:07:00.609 to biblical truth. The books were considered pre evangelistic, designed 0:07:00.610 --> 0:07:03.770 to open the door to readers so that they would 0:07:03.770 --> 0:07:10.210 become receptive to biblical truth and interested in exploring more 0:07:10.410 --> 0:07:11.370 in that realm. 0:07:12.850 --> 0:07:15.450 And that's exactly what has happened, isn't it, Gary? 0:07:15.970 --> 0:07:18.170 It is. You know, in fact, I've had people say 0:07:18.170 --> 0:07:20.370 to me, I didn't know you were a Christian till 0:07:20.370 --> 0:07:22.970 I got to the end of the book. And I said, oh, 0:07:23.010 --> 0:07:28.170 that was on purpose because I wrote with non-Christians in mind. 0:07:28.210 --> 0:07:31.370 You know, because, listen, they have the need to feel love, 0:07:31.410 --> 0:07:34.690 just like Christians have the need to feel love. And 0:07:34.730 --> 0:07:36.570 at the end of the book, of course, what I 0:07:36.570 --> 0:07:40.850 said essentially was I'm giving you information on how to 0:07:40.890 --> 0:07:45.530 effectively express love to your spouse. I can't give you motivation, 0:07:46.170 --> 0:07:48.490 but I can tell you where my motivation came from. 0:07:48.730 --> 0:07:51.610 And I give my personal experience my relationship with God, 0:07:51.650 --> 0:07:54.870 you know, and that God loved me. I responded to 0:07:54.910 --> 0:07:57.150 God's love. And then the scriptures say, the love of 0:07:57.150 --> 0:07:59.510 God is poured in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. 0:07:59.510 --> 0:08:03.310 So Christians have outside help in terms of having a 0:08:03.310 --> 0:08:07.310 good marriage. But I also want to reach non-Christians with 0:08:07.310 --> 0:08:09.710 the message. And so, yeah, it's been very, very encouraging 0:08:09.750 --> 0:08:12.070 to see the way God has used that particular book 0:08:12.070 --> 0:08:12.910 through the years. 0:08:13.310 --> 0:08:16.350 Well, I'm looking forward to this conversation about a simple 0:08:16.350 --> 0:08:20.510 guide for a better marriage. Quick, practical insights. Every couple 0:08:20.510 --> 0:08:26.390 needs to thrive. And here's the thing bringing 100 years 0:08:26.390 --> 0:08:30.030 of marriage to the page. You and John teamed up. 0:08:30.350 --> 0:08:33.190 You have 100 years of experience. 0:08:33.630 --> 0:08:37.550 It doesn't mean I've been married 100 years, but together 0:08:37.550 --> 0:08:40.829 we've been married. If you count my 63 years and 0:08:40.830 --> 0:08:44.070 her 63 years, how many is that? I'm not good 0:08:44.070 --> 0:08:52.280 at math. 126. Okay. Carol and I had real struggles 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.760 in the early days of our marriage. I've shared those 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:58.000 sometimes on the program and I'm looking back on it. 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.440 I just feel like God led us through all those 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:05.079 painful years or early years because he was preparing us 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:07.320 for what he wanted us to be doing, you know, 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.880 later on. I wouldn't have had empathy for people if 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.040 I never had any struggles in my own marriage. You know, 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:14.680 I'd say, what would be wrong with you folks? Just 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:16.640 snap out of it and have a good marriage, you know? 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.600 But I remember when I had those feelings of, I 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:23.480 don't know. I may have married the wrong person. I mean, 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.760 it's just not working. We're too different. You know, all 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.040 we're doing is arguing with each other. And, man, I mean, 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:33.560 those are those are painful times. And. But God has 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:35.719 used all of that to give me great empathy for 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:39.000 people who are struggling in their own marriage and a 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.400 deep desire to impact those people in a positive way, 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.599 and to and to bring hope to, to their situation. 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.520 Sometimes I've said in my office, to people that say, 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.060 we just don't see any hope. We just don't know 0:09:51.059 --> 0:09:53.660 how this could ever work. And I say, well, I 0:09:53.660 --> 0:09:56.660 can understand that, but I'd like to ask you a question. 0:09:57.179 --> 0:09:59.179 Would you be willing to go on my hope for 0:09:59.179 --> 0:10:03.260 a while? Because I have hope for you. I've, I've 0:10:03.260 --> 0:10:05.620 I've been where you are, and I've helped a lot 0:10:05.620 --> 0:10:07.620 of other people who have been where you are. And 0:10:07.620 --> 0:10:10.300 I have great hope for you. So, you know, God 0:10:10.300 --> 0:10:12.860 uses all of our everything in our lives. I think 0:10:12.860 --> 0:10:15.819 he uses it to to work in us and then 0:10:15.820 --> 0:10:17.939 ultimately work through us to help others. 0:10:18.100 --> 0:10:19.900 Mhm. Yeah. Well said. 0:10:20.179 --> 0:10:22.700 I like the way you put that Chris. Uh more 0:10:22.700 --> 0:10:26.540 than 100 years. Uh hadn't really thought about that from 0:10:26.540 --> 0:10:31.780 a marketing standpoint. But between Gary and me and our marriage, 0:10:32.300 --> 0:10:37.540 length of time, it is over 100 years of experience 0:10:37.540 --> 0:10:42.500 and wisdom packed inside this book. Mostly, of course, it's Gary's, 0:10:42.740 --> 0:10:46.340 and I'm more than 60 over 40. Obviously it's more 0:10:46.340 --> 0:10:47.420 like 9010. 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.640 Well, that's your perspective, John. I've said this before. I 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:54.200 don't think I would have written this book if you 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.880 hadn't helped me with it, so I'm very grateful for that. 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.719 Let me ask you this, John, uh, what are some 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.400 of the ministries that you and Chris, your wife, are 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:05.959 invested in, uh, that support healthy marriages? 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.920 Well, I would start with, uh, my ministry with Moody 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:17.160 and the the privilege I have of working with you, Gary. 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:21.720 And in the past, some other authors who have written 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:28.360 with the purpose of benefiting or building up relationships, whether 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:32.880 it be marriage or family or parenting, even workplace. So 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:37.280 I've considered my job at Moody to be a ministry 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:42.000 that really is putting very impactful books into the hands 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:46.040 of people who, if they read them, will strengthen them, 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:50.900 benefit them in their relationship first and foremost with God. 0:11:51.580 --> 0:11:55.300 That vertical relationship, but then also with the people in 0:11:55.300 --> 0:11:59.740 their lives, in their homes, in their workplaces, their churches, whatnot. 0:11:59.740 --> 0:12:03.980 So Moody has been a great ministry to be involved in. Uh, 0:12:03.980 --> 0:12:07.780 the other ministry is our church, our local church. Chris 0:12:07.780 --> 0:12:11.140 and I have been part of this church that we're 0:12:11.140 --> 0:12:14.220 at for just about as long as I've been at Moody, 0:12:14.380 --> 0:12:17.980 and we served in a variety of different ministries within 0:12:17.980 --> 0:12:22.420 the church. But for the last dozen years or so, 0:12:22.980 --> 0:12:27.180 we have served in our church's counseling ministry. Our church 0:12:27.179 --> 0:12:31.179 started that back in the early 2000. It's a lay 0:12:31.179 --> 0:12:35.780 counseling ministry, peer to peer, where we have volunteers from 0:12:35.780 --> 0:12:39.460 our congregation who serve, who get trained, who read books, 0:12:39.500 --> 0:12:42.339 go to school, learn things, and then put them to 0:12:42.380 --> 0:12:45.380 work with others within our church. But it goes way 0:12:45.380 --> 0:12:48.840 beyond our church to our community as well. And it 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.880 was just five years ago now that, uh, our church 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:58.000 asked Chris and me to come on staff and to 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.720 serve as the directors of this counseling ministry. A part 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:05.400 time role here at this church. And so we have 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:10.880 been immersed even more in counseling from the beginning. Chris 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:14.040 and I kind of focused on counseling couples. That's what 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:17.920 we did most of. And that hasn't changed. Our ministry 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:23.440 has been enhanced by that fact that we're working with 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.000 couples that, you know, there's been a lot of overlap 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:29.199 between what I do here at the church and what 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:32.640 I do at Moody. But anyway, at the moment, we 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:37.559 we serve with a team of about 20 lay counselors. 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.400 And it's been such a privilege to have men and 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:44.679 women who love the Lord and are really willing to 0:13:44.890 --> 0:13:50.370 sacrifice time and energy to come alongside and walk well 0:13:50.370 --> 0:13:54.050 with people who are struggling. Whatever place in life. 0:13:54.370 --> 0:13:55.130 That's fantastic. 0:13:55.170 --> 0:13:57.410 You know, John, I hope that our listeners who hear 0:13:57.410 --> 0:14:00.890 what you just said and they're active in a church 0:14:01.490 --> 0:14:04.010 that they will think in terms of, is this something 0:14:04.050 --> 0:14:06.929 our church could do? Because I believe there are a 0:14:06.929 --> 0:14:09.890 lot of lay people out there that would be open 0:14:10.170 --> 0:14:14.329 to helping other lay people, and they are studying books. 0:14:14.330 --> 0:14:17.290 They are going to conferences, they are learning things that 0:14:17.290 --> 0:14:20.010 would be helpful to others. And yet they feel like, well, 0:14:20.010 --> 0:14:23.290 I'm not a professional, you know, I'm not a certified counselor. 0:14:23.290 --> 0:14:26.370 So I don't I don't think I could do that. Listen, 0:14:26.370 --> 0:14:30.250 people can help people. If you've learned some things, you 0:14:30.250 --> 0:14:33.570 can help people. So I really appreciate what you and 0:14:33.570 --> 0:14:36.290 Trish have done through the years here in your own church. 0:14:36.770 --> 0:14:38.130 And I think this is going to be one of 0:14:38.130 --> 0:14:41.010 those resources you can hand people when they come in 0:14:41.050 --> 0:14:44.510 for counseling. It's a simple guide for a better marriage. 0:14:44.670 --> 0:14:49.750 Quick practical insights every couple needs to thrive. John. Every 0:14:49.750 --> 0:14:52.190 book has a story behind it. We talked about the 0:14:52.190 --> 0:14:55.790 five love languages before. What's the story behind A Simple 0:14:55.790 --> 0:14:57.390 guide for a better Marriage? 0:14:58.030 --> 0:15:00.190 Yeah, first of all, I got to give credit where 0:15:00.190 --> 0:15:04.910 credit is due. This is primarily Gary's book, and he's really, 0:15:04.950 --> 0:15:08.350 in a sense, been writing it over his life. Uh, 0:15:08.350 --> 0:15:12.510 it all started one evening when we were out in 0:15:12.510 --> 0:15:15.790 Grants Pass, Oregon, together for a conference. He and I 0:15:15.790 --> 0:15:19.350 went to dinner together at a at a restaurant that night, 0:15:19.350 --> 0:15:22.310 and he told me about a series of articles that 0:15:22.310 --> 0:15:27.350 he had written for a monthly magazine. It was a 0:15:27.390 --> 0:15:31.590 rather extensive collection. Um, when he sent them to me 0:15:31.590 --> 0:15:37.750 nearly 100 articles on various aspects of marriage. Each article 0:15:37.750 --> 0:15:41.950 was like unpacking one facet of Gary's wisdom on marriage. 0:15:42.230 --> 0:15:45.330 I was inspired by the breadth of topics that he 0:15:45.330 --> 0:15:50.370 covered and the depth of insight, biblical knowledge, practical expertise 0:15:50.370 --> 0:15:54.250 that was coming through in these articles. My task was 0:15:54.250 --> 0:15:59.610 to select the best pieces out of that collection and 0:15:59.610 --> 0:16:03.210 distill them into a book that would address some of 0:16:03.210 --> 0:16:07.810 the most common and relevant challenges that couples face in 0:16:07.810 --> 0:16:10.770 today's world. There was a lot, I have to say. 0:16:10.770 --> 0:16:14.330 The temptation was to expand this work. It would have 0:16:14.330 --> 0:16:18.010 been easy to make it into like an exhaustive volume 0:16:18.370 --> 0:16:23.250 that really goes into depth on on the materials. But 0:16:23.250 --> 0:16:28.770 I also wanted to ensure that the final product was accessible. 0:16:29.290 --> 0:16:32.690 And so I distilled. Ultimately, we ended up with a 0:16:32.690 --> 0:16:39.170 highly manageable and readable book consisting of 31 chapters that 0:16:39.170 --> 0:16:42.630 really only take a few minutes to read. but they're 0:16:42.630 --> 0:16:47.150 packed with substantive and actionable insights for couples. 0:16:47.910 --> 0:16:50.030 I think the other thing, John, that I really appreciate 0:16:50.030 --> 0:16:52.950 is at the end of each of those chapters, you 0:16:52.990 --> 0:16:57.229 created questions or things that they could do to apply 0:16:57.270 --> 0:17:00.070 whatever the topic was in that chapter. So it's really, 0:17:00.070 --> 0:17:05.030 really practical. And I am super, super excited about this book. Chris, I, 0:17:05.950 --> 0:17:08.670 I think it's a readable book. You know, I've found 0:17:08.670 --> 0:17:12.550 that in today's world, uh, people are not into reading long, long, 0:17:12.550 --> 0:17:15.430 long chapters in books, at least many people, a lot 0:17:15.470 --> 0:17:19.909 of men especially. So these are short chapters, but they 0:17:19.950 --> 0:17:24.070 are pointed chapters, you know, really focusing in on aspects 0:17:24.070 --> 0:17:27.469 of a marriage that anyone can identify with. So I 0:17:27.470 --> 0:17:30.430 really think this book has great potential for helping people. 0:17:30.430 --> 0:17:32.030 I wish, I wish I could put it in the 0:17:32.070 --> 0:17:34.310 hands of every couple in the country. That's how I 0:17:34.350 --> 0:17:37.670 feel about it. It's it's an easy read, but it's 0:17:37.670 --> 0:17:41.690 dealing with issues that couples will be able to. Oh, yeah, 0:17:41.730 --> 0:17:44.650 that makes sense. Let's try that. You know, really practical 0:17:44.650 --> 0:17:47.170 things that will will make a change in their marriage. 0:17:47.210 --> 0:17:47.850 Yes. 0:17:47.890 --> 0:17:50.450 Can you give me an example of that, Gary? The, the. 0:17:50.490 --> 0:17:53.970 Oh yeah. I think we could implement this because you're 0:17:53.970 --> 0:17:58.609 talking about better, making your marriage better. And that is everybody. 0:17:58.650 --> 0:18:01.010 You know, all of our marriages can be better for 0:18:01.010 --> 0:18:02.650 those people who are married, right? 0:18:03.010 --> 0:18:05.850 Yeah. Well, I think one would be the chapter on 0:18:05.850 --> 0:18:09.170 conflicts and how to resolve conflicts, because there are many, 0:18:09.170 --> 0:18:12.489 many people have never learned how to resolve conflicts. Uh, 0:18:12.490 --> 0:18:15.409 every difference they have, they argue about, you know, because 0:18:15.410 --> 0:18:18.410 he knows he's right and she knows she's right. And 0:18:18.410 --> 0:18:20.889 one of the things I say is, listen, every couple 0:18:20.930 --> 0:18:25.690 has conflicts because we're human. Humans don't think the same way, 0:18:25.690 --> 0:18:28.730 and they don't have the same history and they don't 0:18:28.730 --> 0:18:32.810 have the same emotions. So coming to respect the other 0:18:32.810 --> 0:18:36.170 person as a human, you know, and say, okay, honey, 0:18:36.170 --> 0:18:38.930 I want to hear your side. Tell me, let me 0:18:39.090 --> 0:18:42.100 let me try to understand where you're coming from. Learning 0:18:42.100 --> 0:18:44.340 how to listen to that other person. You look at 0:18:44.340 --> 0:18:47.979 the world through their eyes because they're not crazy, you know? 0:18:48.020 --> 0:18:50.300 And the things they're saying are not dumb. You know, 0:18:50.740 --> 0:18:55.219 they may sound dumb to you. Listen, because they have 0:18:55.260 --> 0:18:58.340 they're unique and they're sharing their uniqueness with you. When 0:18:58.340 --> 0:19:00.859 you when it's in a conflict situation, and if you 0:19:00.859 --> 0:19:03.659 listen long enough and ask questions about where they're coming from, 0:19:03.700 --> 0:19:05.900 and let me make sure I understand what you're saying, 0:19:06.260 --> 0:19:08.739 you can honestly say to the person, your spouse and 0:19:08.740 --> 0:19:11.580 you say, you know, honey, when we first started this, 0:19:11.580 --> 0:19:14.020 I really did not see your position, but now I 0:19:14.020 --> 0:19:16.260 can see I can see how you would think that, 0:19:16.260 --> 0:19:19.220 and I can see how that makes sense. It still 0:19:19.220 --> 0:19:22.419 doesn't mean you necessarily agree with them, but now you 0:19:22.420 --> 0:19:25.740 you can understand them enough that you can affirm them 0:19:25.740 --> 0:19:28.140 rather than trying to fight them, you know, and win 0:19:28.140 --> 0:19:31.260 the argument. And then they listen to you with that 0:19:31.260 --> 0:19:35.580 same openness to trying to understand your perspective. And then 0:19:35.580 --> 0:19:38.720 you can both say, honestly, you know, honey, how we 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:41.240 see this, it makes it makes sense, you know? It's 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:43.479 just that we have a difference. But how can we 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.639 solve the problem? And you spend your energy solving the 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:50.479 problem rather than trying to win an argument. Because if 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:53.800 you win the argument, they lost. No fun to live 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.639 with a loser. So why would you create one? You know, 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:00.359 I mean, that one thing could turn a lot of 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.239 marriages around. Because I'm telling you, there are couples have 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:06.840 been married for years, have never learned how to resolve conflicts. 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:09.760 They just are insistent on trying to convince the other 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.880 person that I'm right and you're wrong, and you're never 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:15.720 going to get a good marriage if that's your attitude. 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:18.920 So that's that's a that's an example of how practical 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:19.720 the book is. 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.639 John, tell me your perspective on conflict. 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:24.560 Well, we deal with. 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:28.479 Conflict in the book in a whole section of six. 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:31.840 I think it's six chapters. We talk about conflict and 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:34.760 anger and other things. And one of the things that 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:39.340 we say that is a bit ironic. That may catch 0:20:39.340 --> 0:20:43.700 some readers off guard, is that conflict is really actually 0:20:43.700 --> 0:20:48.020 good for marriage. It's good to have conflict as long 0:20:48.020 --> 0:20:50.420 as you keep your eye on the goal. The goal 0:20:50.420 --> 0:20:55.980 isn't to eliminate differences of opinion or differences in personality. 0:20:55.980 --> 0:20:58.859 It's about learning to work together as a team and 0:20:58.859 --> 0:21:03.060 allowing your differences to complement each other to lead to 0:21:03.100 --> 0:21:07.700 a greater good. So conflict is is good. There is 0:21:08.140 --> 0:21:10.140 a lot that can be learned and a lot that 0:21:10.140 --> 0:21:14.460 can be used to deepen marriage. The danger, though, of course, 0:21:14.500 --> 0:21:19.020 there's the danger, is it's not hard at all for 0:21:19.020 --> 0:21:23.780 conflicts to escalate and become arguments. And then you're attacking 0:21:23.780 --> 0:21:27.859 each other and building up that wall, that barrier between 0:21:27.859 --> 0:21:31.860 you or fighting, fleeing from one another. So you have 0:21:31.859 --> 0:21:35.560 to be careful. Arguments don't tend to end well, Dwell, 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:40.240 but conflicts, when handled right do tend to end well 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:43.000 and a couple can actually grow closer together. 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:45.720 I think that's going to be eye opening for somebody 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:48.199 driving down the road, and they're looking at their spouse, 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:50.960 or they're thinking about their spouse, husband or wife. We 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:52.840 fight all the time. But why? Why do we have 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:56.480 so much conflict that it can be actually a positive 0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:59.800 thing in your relationship? And that's one of the great 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:03.960 things about this book. A Simple guide for a Better Marriage. Quick, 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:07.800 practical insights every couple needs to thrive. You can find 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:12.560 out more about it at the website. Building relationships. Again, 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:19.040 go to Building Relationships. John. Throughout the book, you. You 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:23.240 and Gary talk about unconditional love. And that gets thrown 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:26.120 around a lot these days. I want to know from 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:30.000 a practical perspective, what does that mean? Unconditional love. 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:37.540 I think it's really demonstrating God's love in marriage. We 0:22:37.580 --> 0:22:39.820 don't have to earn his love. He gives it to 0:22:39.859 --> 0:22:43.900 us freely. And even when we're unlovable, you know he. 0:22:43.940 --> 0:22:46.900 He loves us. He tells us in his word that 0:22:46.900 --> 0:22:49.300 he loves us and that he wants us to emulate 0:22:49.580 --> 0:22:54.660 his love. And first John 411 and 12 says, beloved, 0:22:54.660 --> 0:22:57.700 if God so loved us, we also ought to love 0:22:57.700 --> 0:23:00.540 one another. No one has ever seen God. If we 0:23:00.540 --> 0:23:04.580 love one another, God abides in us, and his love 0:23:04.980 --> 0:23:08.100 is perfected in us. So this is this is what 0:23:08.100 --> 0:23:13.780 it means, I think, primarily to love unconditionally is selflessly. 0:23:14.060 --> 0:23:19.220 It's not loving the other person expecting something in return. 0:23:19.460 --> 0:23:25.300 It's acting in our spouse's best interest, even if their 0:23:25.300 --> 0:23:29.940 intention isn't for our best interest. Even if they're selfish. 0:23:30.260 --> 0:23:34.600 Loving them in this way unconditionally as God loves us 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:39.160 means loving a selfish spouse and, um, doing it in 0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:43.560 a selfless, other oriented manner. So sometimes there's a cost 0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:47.560 to unconditional love. It seeks what's best for our spouse, 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:51.840 even when it costs us, even when they're not interested 0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:54.959 in our needs and our situation. 0:23:55.359 --> 0:23:57.239 Yeah. I think another thing I would just throw in 0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:01.440 there is that sometimes we feel like if I don't 0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:05.520 feel love for them, then I don't love them. But 0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:09.200 that's not necessarily true. You don't have to have love 0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:13.359 feelings or positive feelings for your spouse to love them. 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:17.240 I mean, love is a choice. There's an emotional aspect 0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:20.360 to it. But and I say this because the lady 0:24:20.359 --> 0:24:22.680 once asked me, can you can you love your husband 0:24:22.680 --> 0:24:26.760 if you hate him? And I had to give some 0:24:26.760 --> 0:24:30.239 thought to that. But I think you can. You know, 0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:32.810 you can, you can, you can be hurt and really 0:24:32.810 --> 0:24:36.290 just feel like they're awful. But you can choose to 0:24:36.330 --> 0:24:38.969 love them with words and deeds, you know? And if 0:24:38.970 --> 0:24:40.930 you know their love language, you can speak their love 0:24:40.930 --> 0:24:44.129 language with God's help. Because God, as you said, John, 0:24:44.130 --> 0:24:47.090 God loved us while we were sinners. And we can 0:24:47.090 --> 0:24:50.570 love our spouse when they're sinners. And love's the most 0:24:50.570 --> 0:24:52.970 powerful thing you can do for a person. And with 0:24:52.970 --> 0:24:56.250 the help of God, you can actually be God's agent 0:24:56.450 --> 0:25:00.010 for loving that person even when you have negative feelings 0:25:00.010 --> 0:25:03.370 for them. And we can't change them, but we can 0:25:03.369 --> 0:25:07.650 influence them. And unconditional love is the most positive influence 0:25:07.650 --> 0:25:10.930 you can ever have on a spouse. And we can't 0:25:10.930 --> 0:25:13.290 guarantee that they'll all turn around and come back and 0:25:13.290 --> 0:25:15.730 love you. But I can tell you, I've seen many, many, 0:25:15.730 --> 0:25:19.609 many times. They do turn around because they know they 0:25:19.609 --> 0:25:22.929 don't deserve the way you're loving them. And when you 0:25:22.930 --> 0:25:24.970 do it over a period of time, they realize, oh man, 0:25:24.970 --> 0:25:28.130 they're sincere. I mean, they really care about me and 0:25:28.130 --> 0:25:30.570 it draws them because we love God. The Bible says 0:25:30.570 --> 0:25:34.830 because he first loved us. So that principle works in 0:25:34.830 --> 0:25:36.229 a Christian marriage as well. 0:25:40.830 --> 0:25:43.590 Thanks for joining us for the Building Relationships with Doctor 0:25:43.590 --> 0:25:46.670 Gary Chapman podcast. He's the author of the New York 0:25:46.710 --> 0:25:50.190 Times best seller The Five Love Languages. You can find 0:25:50.190 --> 0:25:52.590 out more about your love language by going to five 0:25:52.630 --> 0:25:56.389 Love Languages. Com. You can also see our featured resource, 0:25:56.390 --> 0:25:59.429 the book by Doctor Chapman and our guest, John Hinckley. 0:25:59.630 --> 0:26:02.750 It's titled A Simple Guide for a Better Marriage. Just 0:26:02.750 --> 0:26:05.070 go to five Love languages.com. 0:26:06.869 --> 0:26:10.310 John, add to what Gary was saying about unconditional love. 0:26:11.109 --> 0:26:15.550 Yeah, it involves asking questions, and his three questions are 0:26:15.550 --> 0:26:19.230 the right ones that any of us as spouses should 0:26:19.270 --> 0:26:22.909 be asking. What can I do to help you? You know, 0:26:23.270 --> 0:26:29.110 reaching out, helping somebody, giving them service without expecting return 0:26:29.109 --> 0:26:33.610 is one way of loving unconditionally. The second question how 0:26:33.609 --> 0:26:36.210 can I make your life easier? Who doesn't want to 0:26:36.210 --> 0:26:39.930 have an easier life? And if we can do something 0:26:39.970 --> 0:26:43.770 to help our spouse in their lives that make things 0:26:43.970 --> 0:26:48.129 lighter and easier for them, then that's a great way 0:26:48.130 --> 0:26:51.970 of expressing unconditional love. And then how can I be 0:26:51.970 --> 0:26:56.850 a better husband or wife to you? Now you're saying 0:26:56.850 --> 0:27:00.530 I want to be God's person for you in this 0:27:00.530 --> 0:27:04.090 marriage as a husband, a loving leader, as a wife, 0:27:04.410 --> 0:27:08.410 a loving wife? I want to be an extension of 0:27:08.450 --> 0:27:11.570 their love to you in this marriage. So I love 0:27:11.570 --> 0:27:14.929 those three questions. And I think when you consider unconditional 0:27:14.930 --> 0:27:17.970 love within marriage, those are the three that you should 0:27:17.970 --> 0:27:18.730 start with. 0:27:19.290 --> 0:27:23.250 Hmm. I like that because, Gary, that gets the focus off. 0:27:23.250 --> 0:27:25.570 Of you and you're not making me happy. You're not 0:27:25.570 --> 0:27:28.530 making me fulfilled. I've fallen out of love with you. 0:27:28.830 --> 0:27:33.230 and it and it emphasizes the choice. Those questions emphasize 0:27:33.230 --> 0:27:36.430 the choice of moving toward your spouse. Right? 0:27:36.869 --> 0:27:39.510 Yeah. And when you do that over a period of 0:27:39.510 --> 0:27:43.669 time and they see you're really serious, you're asking because 0:27:43.670 --> 0:27:46.550 you want to make their life easier, you know, and 0:27:46.550 --> 0:27:50.990 you you want they're likely to start asking you those 0:27:50.990 --> 0:27:57.109 questions because it's never a one way relationship. Our behavior 0:27:57.109 --> 0:28:01.190 affects the other person either negatively or positively. So that's 0:28:01.190 --> 0:28:04.230 why I think it's super, super important. You know, John, 0:28:04.230 --> 0:28:06.670 I think another area we discussed in the book is 0:28:06.710 --> 0:28:09.390 the whole area of communication. Of course, you know, we're 0:28:09.390 --> 0:28:13.830 talking now about loving but communication, it seems so simple 0:28:13.869 --> 0:28:18.190 talking and listening. What what's one thing that in any 0:28:18.190 --> 0:28:20.550 of these chapters that we have, because we have several 0:28:20.550 --> 0:28:24.590 chapters on the whole thing of communication that you you 0:28:24.590 --> 0:28:26.550 would want to share with our listeners today? 0:28:27.070 --> 0:28:31.649 I like the way you say communication is speaking and listening. 0:28:32.410 --> 0:28:35.250 And I think effective communication. One thing that we stress 0:28:35.250 --> 0:28:39.050 in the book is that it really starts not by speaking, 0:28:39.050 --> 0:28:43.330 but by learning to listen and to listening to more 0:28:43.330 --> 0:28:46.930 than just the words. You know, there's there's a whole 0:28:47.490 --> 0:28:51.490 set of nonverbal communication cues that happens when communication is 0:28:51.490 --> 0:28:57.250 taking place. And so you need to be observant and 0:28:57.410 --> 0:29:01.890 alert to other things as like what? What's behind the words. 0:29:01.930 --> 0:29:04.290 Try to grasp what is behind the words that are 0:29:04.650 --> 0:29:09.170 being spoken. We talk a lot about empathetic listening throughout 0:29:09.170 --> 0:29:13.330 the book, and that really is something that is essential 0:29:13.330 --> 0:29:16.690 to marriage health. What it means is it's putting yourself 0:29:16.690 --> 0:29:21.930 in your spouse's shoes and seeing the world from their perspective. 0:29:22.210 --> 0:29:25.810 This means that we listen deeply. We try to get 0:29:25.850 --> 0:29:31.220 at What our spouse is thinking, feeling, and believing. And 0:29:31.220 --> 0:29:35.900 it means that we listen reflectively, you know. Reflective listening 0:29:35.900 --> 0:29:39.660 is when you hear what they say, process it and 0:29:39.660 --> 0:29:41.860 then repeat it back to them to make sure that 0:29:41.860 --> 0:29:42.740 you understand. 0:29:43.220 --> 0:29:43.660 Yeah. 0:29:43.940 --> 0:29:46.140 That's one of the things that we say it is 0:29:46.140 --> 0:29:51.300 imperative to good communication in marriage. But I'd also say 0:29:51.340 --> 0:29:54.820 the thing that strikes me in one of the chapters 0:29:54.820 --> 0:29:59.100 is the five levels of communication. We unpack that concept. 0:29:59.940 --> 0:30:04.219 There's five levels of communication. We have to, as spouses, 0:30:04.220 --> 0:30:07.900 work hard to get beyond the third level and press 0:30:07.900 --> 0:30:10.100 into the fourth and fifth levels. But that's really where 0:30:10.140 --> 0:30:13.620 growth happens. The first level is hallway talk. I mean, 0:30:13.660 --> 0:30:16.739 it's just simply greetings to one another things that you 0:30:16.740 --> 0:30:20.980 would say to anybody. The second level is reporter talk, 0:30:21.300 --> 0:30:25.760 and that's where you talk about the facts. Like the who, what, when, where, Why? 0:30:26.440 --> 0:30:31.360 Facts of the situation. Again, we talked to most people 0:30:31.600 --> 0:30:34.440 at that level. The third level is when you get 0:30:34.440 --> 0:30:39.840 into intellectual talk and sharing thoughts and ideas with one another, 0:30:40.200 --> 0:30:42.800 but it's at this level where you can actually begin 0:30:42.800 --> 0:30:48.480 to build or develop intellectual intimacy with your spouse. For men, 0:30:48.760 --> 0:30:52.600 those first three levels, they're pretty easy. However, when we 0:30:52.600 --> 0:30:55.800 move up to the fourth and fifth level, sometimes for 0:30:55.800 --> 0:30:58.400 some men, I would include myself in that it gets 0:30:58.400 --> 0:31:02.360 a little uncomfortable. The fourth level is emotional talk, and 0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:06.120 that's where we talk about our feelings opening up to 0:31:06.160 --> 0:31:09.320 what we're feeling and our emotions, which can be a 0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:12.840 little bit scary sometimes, especially for men. It's not easy 0:31:12.840 --> 0:31:17.120 to identify emotions or feelings. There is an app out 0:31:17.120 --> 0:31:20.160 there called How We Feel that's been useful for this purpose. 0:31:20.160 --> 0:31:22.760 And and really it's something that you can use if 0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:26.780 you're stuck and don't know how to describe a feeling 0:31:26.780 --> 0:31:29.580 that you have. It can help with that. But the 0:31:29.620 --> 0:31:33.860 fifth and highest level of communication is called genuine truth talk. 0:31:34.540 --> 0:31:39.140 And that's when you're being honest and not condemning and 0:31:39.140 --> 0:31:43.380 you're being open, not demanding. At this level, a couple 0:31:43.420 --> 0:31:48.300 can cultivate spiritual intimacy. It's where they are free to 0:31:48.340 --> 0:31:53.380 speak the truth in love, like Ephesians 415 says, which says, 0:31:53.420 --> 0:31:55.380 speaking the truth in love we grow. We are to 0:31:55.420 --> 0:31:57.700 grow up in every way into him who is the 0:31:57.700 --> 0:32:04.500 head into Christ. So greater intimacy is developed through communication. 0:32:04.940 --> 0:32:11.220 And communication happens on five levels. And we're encouraging spouses 0:32:11.220 --> 0:32:15.700 to move up that ladder and to work at developing 0:32:15.700 --> 0:32:20.700 each level. It can be a sequential thing, and it's 0:32:20.700 --> 0:32:22.660 not that somebody's going to jump in and do all 0:32:22.660 --> 0:32:27.120 five at once, but they can learn to share their emotions. 0:32:27.600 --> 0:32:32.000 And as they do that, it opens the door for 0:32:32.240 --> 0:32:35.280 speaking the truth, really getting to the heart of things. 0:32:35.320 --> 0:32:39.000 And really, when we're talking about communication, understanding the heart 0:32:39.000 --> 0:32:40.440 is so important. 0:32:40.960 --> 0:32:45.560 Yeah. You know, John, I encounter many couples who say, 0:32:45.840 --> 0:32:50.240 you know, we just never talk much except about logistics. 0:32:50.400 --> 0:32:52.280 You know who's going to pick up the kids at school? 0:32:52.320 --> 0:32:54.400 And what stress her. And she'll want to go to. 0:32:55.040 --> 0:32:56.840 And one of the things we deal with in the 0:32:56.840 --> 0:33:00.640 book is just learning how to ask questions. You know, simple, 0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:03.600 just simple daily things. For example, tell me something that 0:33:03.600 --> 0:33:09.440 happened today that you really enjoyed. Oh well, tell me 0:33:09.440 --> 0:33:13.600 something that happened today that was really hard for you. Yeah. 0:33:13.680 --> 0:33:17.000 Or if you could relive today, is there anything you'd 0:33:17.000 --> 0:33:21.160 do differently? Just questions that people don't even think about asking. 0:33:21.160 --> 0:33:22.820 And we list a lot of these in the book. 0:33:22.900 --> 0:33:25.940 And and the other thing is just getting to know 0:33:25.940 --> 0:33:28.739 each other. You know, sometimes we've been married 20 and 0:33:28.740 --> 0:33:33.100 30 years. We don't ever talk about our past. But 0:33:33.100 --> 0:33:35.900 what if you ask questions about honey? What do you 0:33:35.900 --> 0:33:40.219 remember about elementary school? Or, you know, what were the 0:33:40.220 --> 0:33:44.020 positive points about your father or your mother? Or what 0:33:44.020 --> 0:33:47.740 were the negative points? Just getting to know each other. 0:33:47.900 --> 0:33:51.220 Because if we ask questions about their history and things 0:33:51.220 --> 0:33:55.220 that they've gone, they're looking back and we're interested. The 0:33:55.260 --> 0:33:59.180 fact that we ask questions shows we're interested. It's amazing 0:33:59.460 --> 0:34:02.500 what things you can learn about each other. Marriage is 0:34:02.500 --> 0:34:05.980 about sharing life with each other. So and questioning is 0:34:05.980 --> 0:34:09.180 a big part of that. So that whole communication thing, 0:34:09.180 --> 0:34:11.900 I think we have 4 or 5 chapters on that, 0:34:11.940 --> 0:34:12.780 that whole area. 0:34:12.820 --> 0:34:15.819 So I love it. It's going to be helpful. And 0:34:15.820 --> 0:34:19.739 I'm listening to this as as a man who has 0:34:20.260 --> 0:34:23.469 my whole life. Tried to not feel anything. You know, 0:34:23.510 --> 0:34:25.670 it's like I don't want to. I want you ask 0:34:25.670 --> 0:34:27.509 me how I feel about something. I don't want to 0:34:27.510 --> 0:34:30.750 feel anything. It's it's it's threatening to me. And I 0:34:30.790 --> 0:34:33.589 saw this video the other day of a man. He 0:34:33.590 --> 0:34:37.029 looks like he's in his late 40s, maybe 50s, and 0:34:37.030 --> 0:34:41.590 he's just standing. Just sitting out back. This probably is 0:34:41.910 --> 0:34:45.750 an actor doing this, uh, because then the teaching comes 0:34:45.750 --> 0:34:48.790 on after that. So it's probably an actor, but the 0:34:48.790 --> 0:34:51.469 the fellow's his wife comes out and says, what are 0:34:51.469 --> 0:34:54.430 you doing? And he said, I'm just I'm just sitting 0:34:54.430 --> 0:34:57.469 here thinking about this, this spool of wire when we 0:34:57.469 --> 0:35:00.950 were first married. This thing was full, you know, it 0:35:00.950 --> 0:35:05.989 was a full spool of wire, but now there's only 0:35:06.150 --> 0:35:07.989 a little bit left. You know, I'm going to have 0:35:07.989 --> 0:35:09.750 to get another spool of wire. And I was just 0:35:09.750 --> 0:35:13.790 thinking about, you know, he's he's trying to communicate something deep. 0:35:14.110 --> 0:35:17.669 And she says, oh, that's I don't remember what she says. 0:35:17.710 --> 0:35:21.010 He says, that's dumb or whatever, you know, just. And 0:35:21.010 --> 0:35:23.450 and he gets up and walks away. He gets up 0:35:23.450 --> 0:35:27.170 because he he shuts down. He's sharing something from deep 0:35:27.170 --> 0:35:30.810 inside as he's just sitting out there. And that can 0:35:30.810 --> 0:35:33.770 happen on either side for the husband, or the wife 0:35:33.770 --> 0:35:38.530 can shut down the feelings of the other person. And 0:35:38.570 --> 0:35:40.730 and you don't want to do that, right, Gary? 0:35:40.890 --> 0:35:44.489 Yeah, yeah. Tell me about it. Yeah. So he says 0:35:44.489 --> 0:35:46.650 something that didn't make any sense to you at all, 0:35:47.250 --> 0:35:49.489 but rather than saying, well, that's that's stupid or I 0:35:49.489 --> 0:35:52.010 don't know what you're talking about. Well, tell me about 0:35:52.010 --> 0:35:55.530 it and ask questions. They've got something on their mind 0:35:55.530 --> 0:35:59.010 when they say something you don't understand. If you ask questions, 0:35:59.210 --> 0:36:02.090 you'll learn where they are and where they're coming from. 0:36:02.450 --> 0:36:04.410 This whole thing, you know, the scriptures say that a 0:36:04.410 --> 0:36:07.730 husband and wife are to become one flesh. I mean, 0:36:07.730 --> 0:36:11.930 it's deep, deep intimacy. You know, it's sharing life on 0:36:11.930 --> 0:36:16.250 every possible level. And that's where the marriage really finds 0:36:16.250 --> 0:36:19.790 its meaning. When you have that sense that we're we're connected. 0:36:20.590 --> 0:36:23.350 Communication is a big part of that. I mean, listening 0:36:23.350 --> 0:36:26.189 and talking about all kinds of things and sharing life 0:36:26.190 --> 0:36:28.790 with each other and emotions with each other. All that 0:36:29.310 --> 0:36:30.710 exceedingly important. 0:36:31.390 --> 0:36:34.430 All right. Let's get really, really practical for somebody who's 0:36:34.430 --> 0:36:38.670 listening today. And there's some pressure in your marriage. Uh, 0:36:38.710 --> 0:36:41.270 you're married to somebody who works all the time. There's 0:36:41.270 --> 0:36:45.590 financial stress in your marriage. There's stress with the kids. Uh, 0:36:46.110 --> 0:36:51.510 how can couples manage those challenges without having them damage 0:36:51.510 --> 0:36:53.670 their relationship? John. You first. 0:36:54.150 --> 0:36:58.750 Ah. I think when couples keep their priorities in alignment 0:36:58.750 --> 0:37:02.069 with God's design, I think that is one of the 0:37:02.070 --> 0:37:06.990 ways that they can tackle these challenges. And, um, really, 0:37:06.989 --> 0:37:10.150 it starts with putting God first. God always needs to 0:37:10.150 --> 0:37:13.310 be at the center of marriage in all of life 0:37:13.310 --> 0:37:18.570 and relationships for that matter. We often use an equilateral 0:37:18.810 --> 0:37:23.050 triangle that's one that has the same length on all sides. 0:37:23.090 --> 0:37:27.130 To illustrate the principle of keeping God at the center 0:37:27.130 --> 0:37:31.009 of marriage, he's actually at the top of this triangle 0:37:31.010 --> 0:37:33.489 at the apex, and the husband and wife are at 0:37:33.489 --> 0:37:38.530 the bottom two corners. The triangle teaches us that as 0:37:38.570 --> 0:37:42.330 both husband and wife move closer to God, they're moving 0:37:42.330 --> 0:37:47.049 up the triangle, up the sides toward God. Their relationship 0:37:47.050 --> 0:37:50.330 is not only growing closer to him, but it's also 0:37:50.330 --> 0:37:53.690 growing closer to one another. So the closer a couple 0:37:53.969 --> 0:37:57.210 gets in their relationship with God, the deeper and more 0:37:57.210 --> 0:38:01.050 meaningful their relationship is. Husband and wife are. So we 0:38:01.250 --> 0:38:06.009 encourage couples to put God first, press into God, grow 0:38:06.210 --> 0:38:09.609 in your knowledge of him, your faith and trust in him, 0:38:09.610 --> 0:38:13.129 your love for him, and obedience as well. And then 0:38:13.130 --> 0:38:16.710 second to God comes to marriage your spouse after your 0:38:16.710 --> 0:38:19.669 relationship with God, your marriage needs to be the second 0:38:19.710 --> 0:38:23.469 highest priority. That means the love of a husband for 0:38:23.469 --> 0:38:26.470 his wife and a wife's love for her husband should 0:38:26.469 --> 0:38:31.189 be the most intimate human relationship. And then children come 0:38:31.190 --> 0:38:35.069 after that. Their third. If the couple has children, they 0:38:35.070 --> 0:38:40.110 become that next priority. And making time is essential here. 0:38:40.790 --> 0:38:44.550 Oftentimes it's it's the easiest thing to neglect, especially when 0:38:44.550 --> 0:38:49.790 other pressures in life begin to mount. And for husbands, 0:38:49.790 --> 0:38:52.990 I know it's it's easy to say, hey, my work 0:38:53.390 --> 0:38:57.990 is what provides income and that's what provides good health 0:38:57.989 --> 0:39:00.109 and well-being for my family. That's why I have to 0:39:00.110 --> 0:39:02.630 give work such a high priority. And there is some 0:39:02.670 --> 0:39:05.589 truth to that. But, you know, financial security does not 0:39:05.590 --> 0:39:10.790 necessarily equal relational security. I'm sure you've heard the old 0:39:10.790 --> 0:39:14.950 adage that on a deathbed, you never hear somebody say, boy, 0:39:14.950 --> 0:39:17.640 I wish I would just have spent more time focusing 0:39:17.640 --> 0:39:23.320 on my work. It's always there. Family. So ultimately, investing 0:39:23.360 --> 0:39:26.480 time in growing and nurturing your family and the Lord 0:39:26.480 --> 0:39:30.120 is far more valuable than work. And then fourth, after 0:39:30.120 --> 0:39:34.399 that would come career and finances. Some might even put 0:39:34.400 --> 0:39:39.040 church into this fourth bucket. Regardless, couples need to resist 0:39:39.040 --> 0:39:43.200 the temptation to put that level higher than the other three. 0:39:43.239 --> 0:39:48.760 It's something that's sometimes the easiest one to to elevate, 0:39:48.920 --> 0:39:52.360 but it must always stay in its proper position there 0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:55.239 after God and family. 0:39:56.320 --> 0:39:59.080 And I certainly agree with that, John. I think, you know, 0:39:59.120 --> 0:40:02.840 if we have the sense that we have 18 years 0:40:02.840 --> 0:40:05.400 with our children, for example, and then they're going to 0:40:05.400 --> 0:40:09.640 be moving on for the most part, not always, but 0:40:09.640 --> 0:40:12.279 for the most part, whatever we're going to do, the 0:40:12.280 --> 0:40:14.420 kind of relationship we're going to build, it has to 0:40:14.420 --> 0:40:17.620 be built during those 18 years, and it's either going 0:40:17.660 --> 0:40:19.739 to be positive or it's going to be negative, and 0:40:19.739 --> 0:40:22.180 sometimes it's just that we just don't take time with 0:40:22.180 --> 0:40:25.899 our kids, you know? And so I remember when my 0:40:25.900 --> 0:40:28.580 kids were little and I of course, I could control 0:40:28.580 --> 0:40:30.860 my schedule. I was I was on a pastoral staff. 0:40:30.860 --> 0:40:34.259 So I would go home every afternoon at 3:00 and 0:40:34.260 --> 0:40:36.339 just be there with the kids when they came home 0:40:36.340 --> 0:40:39.020 from school, spend some time helping them with their homework 0:40:39.020 --> 0:40:41.020 if they needed it, and then playing games with them 0:40:41.020 --> 0:40:43.580 and all that sort of thing, you know? But we 0:40:43.580 --> 0:40:46.339 we all have the same amount of time. It's just 0:40:46.340 --> 0:40:48.779 we choose how we're going to spend it, and we 0:40:48.780 --> 0:40:51.899 can allow things to pull us away from the things 0:40:51.900 --> 0:40:55.380 that are most important. You know, I think if a 0:40:55.380 --> 0:40:58.900 couple could have a daily sit down time and I 0:40:58.900 --> 0:41:00.589 know this can be hard if you have 2 or 0:41:00.590 --> 0:41:03.980 3 children or sometimes people have more than that. But 0:41:03.980 --> 0:41:06.780 even if it's 15 minutes just to sit down time 0:41:07.100 --> 0:41:09.379 every day, just like we do with God, at least 0:41:09.380 --> 0:41:11.900 I hope you have that kind of time with God. 0:41:12.300 --> 0:41:14.600 We sit down. with God, we sit down with each 0:41:14.640 --> 0:41:16.970 other and say, honey, tell me three things, or 2 0:41:16.969 --> 0:41:19.279 or 3 things that happened today and how you feel 0:41:19.280 --> 0:41:23.000 about them. And they just share. They can be simple things. 0:41:23.000 --> 0:41:25.840 They can be positive things. They can be negative things. 0:41:25.880 --> 0:41:28.279 It's just something that happened and how you feel about it. 0:41:28.680 --> 0:41:32.319 We're just sharing life together. We're walking through life together. 0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:34.680 And what I would also encourage, and I do this 0:41:34.719 --> 0:41:37.680 at all of my marriage conferences, is that a couple 0:41:37.680 --> 0:41:42.000 share one book every year on marriage with each other. 0:41:42.280 --> 0:41:45.719 And here's what I mean by share. You each read 0:41:45.719 --> 0:41:49.799 the same chapter and then you say, what could we 0:41:49.800 --> 0:41:53.160 learn from this chapter? And this is a great book 0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:56.839 to do that way because it's 31 chapters on 31 0:41:56.840 --> 0:42:00.799 important issues. If each of you reads that chapter and 0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:03.040 then you say, what can we learn from that chapter? 0:42:03.680 --> 0:42:06.600 I predict that the by the time you finish that, 0:42:06.600 --> 0:42:09.759 you are going to be you throughout the whole thing. 0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:12.820 You're going to be growing in your marriage. And I 0:42:12.860 --> 0:42:15.180 just say, you know, do that the rest of your life. 0:42:15.180 --> 0:42:17.739 One book every year, you share one book every year 0:42:17.739 --> 0:42:21.540 on marriage with each other. It's just a practical way 0:42:21.540 --> 0:42:25.020 of continuing to grow, because the book is an outside 0:42:25.020 --> 0:42:29.660 voice talking about a particular aspect of marriage and giving 0:42:29.660 --> 0:42:33.219 you a chance to respond to that voice. And you 0:42:33.219 --> 0:42:36.779 can disagree, or you can agree with the voice, but 0:42:36.780 --> 0:42:40.260 at least you're discussing that concept with your with your spouse. 0:42:40.260 --> 0:42:42.779 So that's one of my suggestions. And one of my 0:42:42.780 --> 0:42:45.020 hopes for this book is that couples will use it 0:42:45.020 --> 0:42:48.219 because it's, as we said earlier, it's an easy read. 0:42:48.580 --> 0:42:53.060 It's geared toward being practical, and I think any couple, 0:42:53.380 --> 0:42:56.540 whatever their background, will profit a lot as they work 0:42:56.540 --> 0:42:59.219 through this book. Well, John, as we know, a lot 0:42:59.219 --> 0:43:01.620 of people buy books on Amazon. So let me ask 0:43:01.620 --> 0:43:05.140 you this. What messages would you like to see on 0:43:05.140 --> 0:43:08.180 Amazon about this book? What is your hope? 0:43:08.980 --> 0:43:12.680 Amazon comments are, of course, very important. I'd love to 0:43:12.680 --> 0:43:17.640 see somebody on Amazon say they read the book, and 0:43:17.800 --> 0:43:23.080 it revolutionized the way they view their marriage and gave 0:43:23.080 --> 0:43:28.760 them some practical guidance and advice that really made a difference. And, 0:43:29.320 --> 0:43:33.879 you know, marriages are either growing or they're regressing. They're 0:43:33.880 --> 0:43:38.920 never standing still. It's vital that we be about growth. 0:43:39.600 --> 0:43:45.000 My hope is that this book stimulates growth and maturity 0:43:45.160 --> 0:43:50.880 in couples, individuals as as they really prioritize their relationship. 0:43:50.920 --> 0:43:54.240 I also would want to see that it would deepen 0:43:54.239 --> 0:43:59.480 their relationship with God. As mentioned before, you know, focus 0:43:59.480 --> 0:44:04.160 on their personal relationship with Jesus first. I would hope 0:44:04.160 --> 0:44:06.200 that it would prompt some people to do that and 0:44:06.200 --> 0:44:10.140 then that that would lead a couple together Other to 0:44:10.260 --> 0:44:14.419 mutual relationship with God, where they are working together on 0:44:14.460 --> 0:44:19.339 their spiritual lives through the spiritual disciplines, and reading God's 0:44:19.380 --> 0:44:24.180 Word together and discussing that and praying together. You know, 0:44:24.219 --> 0:44:27.339 I think that praying together is so important. You can't 0:44:27.340 --> 0:44:30.859 overstate the positive impact of it. One study says that 0:44:30.860 --> 0:44:34.540 couples who pray regularly together have a divorce rate of 0:44:34.540 --> 0:44:38.700 less than 1%. So I'd hope that this book stimulates 0:44:38.940 --> 0:44:42.580 prayer among couples and that if they've never read the 0:44:42.580 --> 0:44:46.900 five love languages, this includes a chapter on the love languages. 0:44:47.100 --> 0:44:49.739 And I would hope that it would turn on some 0:44:49.739 --> 0:44:53.100 lights for them, and then encourage them to take the 0:44:53.100 --> 0:44:55.580 next step of buy the book and read it and 0:44:55.580 --> 0:44:58.260 understand it even more, and then maybe take the next 0:44:58.260 --> 0:45:03.420 step and buy the five Love Languages Premium assessment for 0:45:03.900 --> 0:45:08.380 husband and wife, and really dive deeply into understanding the 0:45:08.510 --> 0:45:11.870 love languages and on the on the flip side of that, 0:45:11.910 --> 0:45:14.390 the last thing I'll say is I would hope that 0:45:14.430 --> 0:45:19.830 they would say that the apology language is is a 0:45:19.830 --> 0:45:25.790 concept that is deeply meaningful for them. When you damage 0:45:25.790 --> 0:45:29.830 your relationship in some way, it's very important that you 0:45:29.830 --> 0:45:34.830 understand your spouse's apology language and offer an apology that's 0:45:34.830 --> 0:45:39.109 meaningful to them immediately in the process. Hopefully, then they 0:45:39.110 --> 0:45:42.870 would forgive you for whatever it is that that you did. 0:45:43.270 --> 0:45:45.590 So that's my hope. I'd love to see some five 0:45:46.030 --> 0:45:51.430 star reviews, but, um, if that happens, what I just mentioned, 0:45:51.469 --> 0:45:53.590 then I'd be very happy. 0:45:53.950 --> 0:45:56.910 Yeah, well, John, I've told you this before. I really 0:45:56.910 --> 0:45:59.670 appreciate you joining me in writing this book, and I'm 0:45:59.670 --> 0:46:03.310 excited about the possibility of what you've just shared really 0:46:03.310 --> 0:46:06.229 happening in people's lives. And I want to also thank 0:46:06.230 --> 0:46:08.730 you for being with us today on building relationships. 0:46:09.090 --> 0:46:12.970 Thank you. It's been a wonderful privilege to be with you. 0:46:13.610 --> 0:46:15.530 And if you'd like to find out more about this 0:46:15.530 --> 0:46:19.850 excellent resource, go to Building Relationships. The title again is 0:46:19.850 --> 0:46:24.010 Simple Guide for a Better Marriage. Quick, practical insights. Every 0:46:24.010 --> 0:46:27.810 couple needs to thrive. Just go to building relationships. 0:46:29.290 --> 0:46:33.570 And next week, discover nine habits from the Bible and 0:46:33.570 --> 0:46:37.529 brain science that can help reduce your anxiety. 0:46:37.850 --> 0:46:41.570 Hear a fascinating discussion with Doctor Charles Stone in one week. 0:46:41.890 --> 0:46:44.570 A big thank you to our production team Steve Wick, 0:46:44.570 --> 0:46:48.570 Janice backing, and Merle Saint James. Building relationships with Doctor 0:46:48.570 --> 0:46:52.049 Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association 0:46:52.050 --> 0:46:56.330 with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks 0:46:56.330 --> 0:46:57.089 for listening.