S1: Fit widget A into slot Q and tighten screw. Okay.
S2: Ever wish marriage came with a set of easy instructions.
S1: But not too tight or the wood might crack. Oh boy.
S3: God uses everything in our lives to work in us,
S3: and then ultimately work through us to help others.
S4: Sometimes there's a cost to unconditional love. It seeks what's
S4: best for our spouse even when they're not interested in
S4: our needs and our situation.
S2: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Today,
S2: we present a simple guide to making marriage better from
S2: the co-authors of a new book that just might be
S2: the key to a relational reset.
S5: And if you go to building relationships, you will see
S5: the book that we're talking about today, A Simple Guide
S5: for a Better Marriage. Quick, practical insights. Every couple needs
S5: to thrive. Again, go to building relationships. Gary, I think
S5: this is going to be a fun program because not
S5: only do we get to hear some practical help from marriage.
S5: We get to meet a man who has worked behind
S5: the scenes of your ministry for a lot of years.
S3: Well, you're right, Chris. John Hinckley and I have worked together. Oh,
S3: John might remember the exact year, but it's been a
S3: long time, I know that. And he's helped in many,
S3: many ways. Uh, works for Moody Publishers. And I was
S3: really glad that he joined with me in writing this
S3: particular book. So I'm excited about our conversation today.
S5: Well, let me introduce our guest, John Hinckley. He and
S5: his wife, Triss have been married for more than 40 years,
S5: and they have three adult children. For the last 35 years,
S5: he's worked for Moody Publishers in Chicago, where he currently
S5: serves as an acquisitions editor. John and Chris live in
S5: Northwest Indiana and served together as directors of their church's
S5: counseling ministry and are featured. Resource is the book by
S5: John and Doctor Chapman. A Simple Guide for a Better Marriage. Quick,
S5: practical insights every couple needs to thrive. Find out more
S5: about it at Building Relationships.
S3: Well, John, welcome to Building Relationships.
S4: Thank you. It's such a privilege and a blessing to
S4: be on this program with you, Gary. Appreciate it.
S3: Yeah. We haven't done this before. We've done a lot
S3: of conferences together, but we haven't done the radio program before,
S3: so it's great to have you. Now, you and your wife, Chris,
S3: have been married for more than 40 years. So take
S3: us back to the early days. And what drew the
S3: two of you together in the first place?
S4: Yeah, well, we met in college, uh, 43 years ago.
S4: We met through a mutual friend and, uh, you know,
S4: in our book, Gary, we talk about opposites attracting.
S3: Mhm.
S4: And from a personality standpoint, Triss and I were and
S4: are opposites. Uh, Triss is an off the scale extrovert,
S4: as you know. And I'm an introvert. She, she tends
S4: to be a night person. I'm a I'm a morning person.
S4: She can be a tad late to meetings and things.
S4: And I, I'm one who likes to be on time.
S4: She's she's much more spontaneous than me. Uh, I tend
S4: to be that kind of that planner. And I could
S4: go on and on, uh, about our differences. But we
S4: also had a lot of things in common. And I
S4: would say when we met, the most important thing was
S4: that we both followed Christ and we love the Lord.
S4: He was a high priority in our lives as individuals. Uh,
S4: we got married the year I graduated and started a family,
S4: and then within five years, I began working at Moody
S4: Bible Institute for Moody Publishers, and as you mentioned, we
S4: have three adult children Megan, Andrew and Graham. All three
S4: live close by, which is nice for us. Uh, one's
S4: very close, and Graham is still living in our home, and.
S4: And Andrew married the love of his life, Kayla, last fall.
S4: That was a wonderful time for all of us as
S4: a family. And I had the tremendous privilege of officiating.
S4: Their wedding is a great event. So. Yeah. Yeah. We
S4: love our family, as you can tell.
S3: Yeah. That's great. That's great. You know, as you were
S3: talking about all the differences between you and Chris, I
S3: was just cataloging with you because so many of those
S3: are true of me and Carolyn as well. The late thing,
S3: for example, you're my idea. Being on time is to
S3: be there 15 minutes before it starts hers. Get there
S3: five minutes after it starts. But many couples will identify
S3: with that, I think. Uh, not that everybody has, uh,
S3: you know, personality differences, but there are always some differences
S3: in every in every couple.
S5: John, I want to ask you, do you remember working
S5: on the five Love languages early on? Were you part
S5: of that?
S4: I was part of it, yeah. You know, it was
S4: Gary's third book. He had already written two books on
S4: marriage that were good selling books, and this one came
S4: The Five Love Languages in 1992. At the time, I
S4: was working in the marketing area for Moody Publishers, but
S4: I was strongly connected to the book. Uh, and one
S4: of the reasons why is because we launched this book
S4: as one of a very few in a new imprint, uh,
S4: that Moody Publishers was developing called Northfield Publishing. Northfield was
S4: named after the town in Massachusetts, where the evangelist D.L.
S4: Moody was born and raised. This imprint, Northfield, was created
S4: so we could put moody books in the mainstream market
S4: into into bookstores like Barnes and Noble and Books-a-million and
S4: borders and Be, Dalton and Walden and many other mainstream
S4: stores that have since become extinct. So much of books
S4: these days are sold online. As you know, Northfield books
S4: were based on the truth of God's Word, but they
S4: didn't include some of the words, the vernacular that is
S4: so common in the church. We in other words, we
S4: didn't use theological words that might become a stumbling block
S4: for readers who didn't regularly go to church. So the
S4: books were kind of considered pre evangelistic. Yes, they were
S4: designed to open doors to readers who might become receptive
S4: to biblical truth. The books were considered pre evangelistic, designed
S4: to open the door to readers so that they would
S4: become receptive to biblical truth and interested in exploring more
S4: in that realm.
S5: And that's exactly what has happened, isn't it, Gary?
S3: It is. You know, in fact, I've had people say
S3: to me, I didn't know you were a Christian till
S3: I got to the end of the book. And I said, oh,
S3: that was on purpose because I wrote with non-Christians in mind.
S3: You know, because, listen, they have the need to feel love,
S3: just like Christians have the need to feel love. And
S3: at the end of the book, of course, what I
S3: said essentially was I'm giving you information on how to
S3: effectively express love to your spouse. I can't give you motivation,
S3: but I can tell you where my motivation came from.
S3: And I give my personal experience my relationship with God,
S3: you know, and that God loved me. I responded to
S3: God's love. And then the scriptures say, the love of
S3: God is poured in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.
S3: So Christians have outside help in terms of having a
S3: good marriage. But I also want to reach non-Christians with
S3: the message. And so, yeah, it's been very, very encouraging
S3: to see the way God has used that particular book
S3: through the years.
S5: Well, I'm looking forward to this conversation about a simple
S5: guide for a better marriage. Quick, practical insights. Every couple
S5: needs to thrive. And here's the thing bringing 100 years
S5: of marriage to the page. You and John teamed up.
S5: You have 100 years of experience.
S3: It doesn't mean I've been married 100 years, but together
S3: we've been married. If you count my 63 years and
S3: her 63 years, how many is that? I'm not good
S3: at math. 126. Okay. Carol and I had real struggles
S3: in the early days of our marriage. I've shared those
S3: sometimes on the program and I'm looking back on it.
S3: I just feel like God led us through all those
S3: painful years or early years because he was preparing us
S3: for what he wanted us to be doing, you know,
S3: later on. I wouldn't have had empathy for people if
S3: I never had any struggles in my own marriage. You know,
S3: I'd say, what would be wrong with you folks? Just
S3: snap out of it and have a good marriage, you know?
S3: But I remember when I had those feelings of, I
S3: don't know. I may have married the wrong person. I mean,
S3: it's just not working. We're too different. You know, all
S3: we're doing is arguing with each other. And, man, I mean,
S3: those are those are painful times. And. But God has
S3: used all of that to give me great empathy for
S3: people who are struggling in their own marriage and a
S3: deep desire to impact those people in a positive way,
S3: and to and to bring hope to, to their situation.
S3: Sometimes I've said in my office, to people that say,
S3: we just don't see any hope. We just don't know
S3: how this could ever work. And I say, well, I
S3: can understand that, but I'd like to ask you a question.
S3: Would you be willing to go on my hope for
S3: a while? Because I have hope for you. I've, I've
S3: I've been where you are, and I've helped a lot
S3: of other people who have been where you are. And
S3: I have great hope for you. So, you know, God
S3: uses all of our everything in our lives. I think
S3: he uses it to to work in us and then
S3: ultimately work through us to help others.
S6: Mhm. Yeah. Well said.
S4: I like the way you put that Chris. Uh more
S4: than 100 years. Uh hadn't really thought about that from
S4: a marketing standpoint. But between Gary and me and our marriage,
S4: length of time, it is over 100 years of experience
S4: and wisdom packed inside this book. Mostly, of course, it's Gary's,
S4: and I'm more than 60 over 40. Obviously it's more
S4: like 9010.
S3: Well, that's your perspective, John. I've said this before. I
S3: don't think I would have written this book if you
S3: hadn't helped me with it, so I'm very grateful for that.
S3: Let me ask you this, John, uh, what are some
S3: of the ministries that you and Chris, your wife, are
S3: invested in, uh, that support healthy marriages?
S4: Well, I would start with, uh, my ministry with Moody
S4: and the the privilege I have of working with you, Gary.
S4: And in the past, some other authors who have written
S4: with the purpose of benefiting or building up relationships, whether
S4: it be marriage or family or parenting, even workplace. So
S4: I've considered my job at Moody to be a ministry
S4: that really is putting very impactful books into the hands
S4: of people who, if they read them, will strengthen them,
S4: benefit them in their relationship first and foremost with God.
S4: That vertical relationship, but then also with the people in
S4: their lives, in their homes, in their workplaces, their churches, whatnot.
S4: So Moody has been a great ministry to be involved in. Uh,
S4: the other ministry is our church, our local church. Chris
S4: and I have been part of this church that we're
S4: at for just about as long as I've been at Moody,
S4: and we served in a variety of different ministries within
S4: the church. But for the last dozen years or so,
S4: we have served in our church's counseling ministry. Our church
S4: started that back in the early 2000. It's a lay
S4: counseling ministry, peer to peer, where we have volunteers from
S4: our congregation who serve, who get trained, who read books,
S4: go to school, learn things, and then put them to
S4: work with others within our church. But it goes way
S4: beyond our church to our community as well. And it
S4: was just five years ago now that, uh, our church
S4: asked Chris and me to come on staff and to
S4: serve as the directors of this counseling ministry. A part
S4: time role here at this church. And so we have
S4: been immersed even more in counseling from the beginning. Chris
S4: and I kind of focused on counseling couples. That's what
S4: we did most of. And that hasn't changed. Our ministry
S4: has been enhanced by that fact that we're working with
S4: couples that, you know, there's been a lot of overlap
S4: between what I do here at the church and what
S4: I do at Moody. But anyway, at the moment, we
S4: we serve with a team of about 20 lay counselors.
S4: And it's been such a privilege to have men and
S4: women who love the Lord and are really willing to
S4: sacrifice time and energy to come alongside and walk well
S4: with people who are struggling. Whatever place in life.
S7: That's fantastic.
S3: You know, John, I hope that our listeners who hear
S3: what you just said and they're active in a church
S3: that they will think in terms of, is this something
S3: our church could do? Because I believe there are a
S3: lot of lay people out there that would be open
S3: to helping other lay people, and they are studying books.
S3: They are going to conferences, they are learning things that
S3: would be helpful to others. And yet they feel like, well,
S3: I'm not a professional, you know, I'm not a certified counselor.
S3: So I don't I don't think I could do that. Listen,
S3: people can help people. If you've learned some things, you
S3: can help people. So I really appreciate what you and
S3: Trish have done through the years here in your own church.
S5: And I think this is going to be one of
S5: those resources you can hand people when they come in
S5: for counseling. It's a simple guide for a better marriage.
S5: Quick practical insights every couple needs to thrive. John. Every
S5: book has a story behind it. We talked about the
S5: five love languages before. What's the story behind A Simple
S5: guide for a better Marriage?
S4: Yeah, first of all, I got to give credit where
S4: credit is due. This is primarily Gary's book, and he's really,
S4: in a sense, been writing it over his life. Uh,
S4: it all started one evening when we were out in
S4: Grants Pass, Oregon, together for a conference. He and I
S4: went to dinner together at a at a restaurant that night,
S4: and he told me about a series of articles that
S4: he had written for a monthly magazine. It was a
S4: rather extensive collection. Um, when he sent them to me
S4: nearly 100 articles on various aspects of marriage. Each article
S4: was like unpacking one facet of Gary's wisdom on marriage.
S4: I was inspired by the breadth of topics that he
S4: covered and the depth of insight, biblical knowledge, practical expertise
S4: that was coming through in these articles. My task was
S4: to select the best pieces out of that collection and
S4: distill them into a book that would address some of
S4: the most common and relevant challenges that couples face in
S4: today's world. There was a lot, I have to say.
S4: The temptation was to expand this work. It would have
S4: been easy to make it into like an exhaustive volume
S4: that really goes into depth on on the materials. But
S4: I also wanted to ensure that the final product was accessible.
S4: And so I distilled. Ultimately, we ended up with a
S4: highly manageable and readable book consisting of 31 chapters that
S4: really only take a few minutes to read. but they're
S4: packed with substantive and actionable insights for couples.
S3: I think the other thing, John, that I really appreciate
S3: is at the end of each of those chapters, you
S3: created questions or things that they could do to apply
S3: whatever the topic was in that chapter. So it's really,
S3: really practical. And I am super, super excited about this book. Chris, I,
S3: I think it's a readable book. You know, I've found
S3: that in today's world, uh, people are not into reading long, long,
S3: long chapters in books, at least many people, a lot
S3: of men especially. So these are short chapters, but they
S3: are pointed chapters, you know, really focusing in on aspects
S3: of a marriage that anyone can identify with. So I
S3: really think this book has great potential for helping people.
S3: I wish, I wish I could put it in the
S3: hands of every couple in the country. That's how I
S3: feel about it. It's it's an easy read, but it's
S3: dealing with issues that couples will be able to. Oh, yeah,
S3: that makes sense. Let's try that. You know, really practical
S3: things that will will make a change in their marriage.
S7: Yes.
S5: Can you give me an example of that, Gary? The, the.
S5: Oh yeah. I think we could implement this because you're
S5: talking about better, making your marriage better. And that is everybody.
S5: You know, all of our marriages can be better for
S5: those people who are married, right?
S3: Yeah. Well, I think one would be the chapter on
S3: conflicts and how to resolve conflicts, because there are many,
S3: many people have never learned how to resolve conflicts. Uh,
S3: every difference they have, they argue about, you know, because
S3: he knows he's right and she knows she's right. And
S3: one of the things I say is, listen, every couple
S3: has conflicts because we're human. Humans don't think the same way,
S3: and they don't have the same history and they don't
S3: have the same emotions. So coming to respect the other
S3: person as a human, you know, and say, okay, honey,
S3: I want to hear your side. Tell me, let me
S3: let me try to understand where you're coming from. Learning
S3: how to listen to that other person. You look at
S3: the world through their eyes because they're not crazy, you know?
S3: And the things they're saying are not dumb. You know,
S3: they may sound dumb to you. Listen, because they have
S3: they're unique and they're sharing their uniqueness with you. When
S3: you when it's in a conflict situation, and if you
S3: listen long enough and ask questions about where they're coming from,
S3: and let me make sure I understand what you're saying,
S3: you can honestly say to the person, your spouse and
S3: you say, you know, honey, when we first started this,
S3: I really did not see your position, but now I
S3: can see I can see how you would think that,
S3: and I can see how that makes sense. It still
S3: doesn't mean you necessarily agree with them, but now you
S3: you can understand them enough that you can affirm them
S3: rather than trying to fight them, you know, and win
S3: the argument. And then they listen to you with that
S3: same openness to trying to understand your perspective. And then
S3: you can both say, honestly, you know, honey, how we
S3: see this, it makes it makes sense, you know? It's
S3: just that we have a difference. But how can we
S3: solve the problem? And you spend your energy solving the
S3: problem rather than trying to win an argument. Because if
S3: you win the argument, they lost. No fun to live
S3: with a loser. So why would you create one? You know,
S3: I mean, that one thing could turn a lot of
S3: marriages around. Because I'm telling you, there are couples have
S3: been married for years, have never learned how to resolve conflicts.
S3: They just are insistent on trying to convince the other
S3: person that I'm right and you're wrong, and you're never
S3: going to get a good marriage if that's your attitude.
S3: So that's that's a that's an example of how practical
S3: the book is.
S5: John, tell me your perspective on conflict.
S6: Well, we deal with.
S4: Conflict in the book in a whole section of six.
S4: I think it's six chapters. We talk about conflict and
S4: anger and other things. And one of the things that
S4: we say that is a bit ironic. That may catch
S4: some readers off guard, is that conflict is really actually
S4: good for marriage. It's good to have conflict as long
S4: as you keep your eye on the goal. The goal
S4: isn't to eliminate differences of opinion or differences in personality.
S4: It's about learning to work together as a team and
S4: allowing your differences to complement each other to lead to
S4: a greater good. So conflict is is good. There is
S4: a lot that can be learned and a lot that
S4: can be used to deepen marriage. The danger, though, of course,
S4: there's the danger, is it's not hard at all for
S4: conflicts to escalate and become arguments. And then you're attacking
S4: each other and building up that wall, that barrier between
S4: you or fighting, fleeing from one another. So you have
S4: to be careful. Arguments don't tend to end well, Dwell,
S4: but conflicts, when handled right do tend to end well
S4: and a couple can actually grow closer together.
S5: I think that's going to be eye opening for somebody
S5: driving down the road, and they're looking at their spouse,
S5: or they're thinking about their spouse, husband or wife. We
S5: fight all the time. But why? Why do we have
S5: so much conflict that it can be actually a positive
S5: thing in your relationship? And that's one of the great
S5: things about this book. A Simple guide for a Better Marriage. Quick,
S5: practical insights every couple needs to thrive. You can find
S5: out more about it at the website. Building relationships. Again,
S5: go to Building Relationships. John. Throughout the book, you. You
S5: and Gary talk about unconditional love. And that gets thrown
S5: around a lot these days. I want to know from
S5: a practical perspective, what does that mean? Unconditional love.
S4: I think it's really demonstrating God's love in marriage. We
S4: don't have to earn his love. He gives it to
S4: us freely. And even when we're unlovable, you know he.
S4: He loves us. He tells us in his word that
S4: he loves us and that he wants us to emulate
S4: his love. And first John 411 and 12 says, beloved,
S4: if God so loved us, we also ought to love
S4: one another. No one has ever seen God. If we
S4: love one another, God abides in us, and his love
S4: is perfected in us. So this is this is what
S4: it means, I think, primarily to love unconditionally is selflessly.
S4: It's not loving the other person expecting something in return.
S4: It's acting in our spouse's best interest, even if their
S4: intention isn't for our best interest. Even if they're selfish.
S4: Loving them in this way unconditionally as God loves us
S4: means loving a selfish spouse and, um, doing it in
S4: a selfless, other oriented manner. So sometimes there's a cost
S4: to unconditional love. It seeks what's best for our spouse,
S4: even when it costs us, even when they're not interested
S4: in our needs and our situation.
S3: Yeah. I think another thing I would just throw in
S3: there is that sometimes we feel like if I don't
S3: feel love for them, then I don't love them. But
S3: that's not necessarily true. You don't have to have love
S3: feelings or positive feelings for your spouse to love them.
S3: I mean, love is a choice. There's an emotional aspect
S3: to it. But and I say this because the lady
S3: once asked me, can you can you love your husband
S3: if you hate him? And I had to give some
S3: thought to that. But I think you can. You know,
S3: you can, you can, you can be hurt and really
S3: just feel like they're awful. But you can choose to
S3: love them with words and deeds, you know? And if
S3: you know their love language, you can speak their love
S3: language with God's help. Because God, as you said, John,
S3: God loved us while we were sinners. And we can
S3: love our spouse when they're sinners. And love's the most
S3: powerful thing you can do for a person. And with
S3: the help of God, you can actually be God's agent
S3: for loving that person even when you have negative feelings
S3: for them. And we can't change them, but we can
S3: influence them. And unconditional love is the most positive influence
S3: you can ever have on a spouse. And we can't
S3: guarantee that they'll all turn around and come back and
S3: love you. But I can tell you, I've seen many, many,
S3: many times. They do turn around because they know they
S3: don't deserve the way you're loving them. And when you
S3: do it over a period of time, they realize, oh man,
S3: they're sincere. I mean, they really care about me and
S3: it draws them because we love God. The Bible says
S3: because he first loved us. So that principle works in
S3: a Christian marriage as well.
S2: Thanks for joining us for the Building Relationships with Doctor
S2: Gary Chapman podcast. He's the author of the New York
S2: Times best seller The Five Love Languages. You can find
S2: out more about your love language by going to five
S2: Love Languages. Com. You can also see our featured resource,
S2: the book by Doctor Chapman and our guest, John Hinckley.
S2: It's titled A Simple Guide for a Better Marriage. Just
S2: go to five Love languages.com.
S5: John, add to what Gary was saying about unconditional love.
S4: Yeah, it involves asking questions, and his three questions are
S4: the right ones that any of us as spouses should
S4: be asking. What can I do to help you? You know,
S4: reaching out, helping somebody, giving them service without expecting return
S4: is one way of loving unconditionally. The second question how
S4: can I make your life easier? Who doesn't want to
S4: have an easier life? And if we can do something
S4: to help our spouse in their lives that make things
S4: lighter and easier for them, then that's a great way
S4: of expressing unconditional love. And then how can I be
S4: a better husband or wife to you? Now you're saying
S4: I want to be God's person for you in this
S4: marriage as a husband, a loving leader, as a wife,
S4: a loving wife? I want to be an extension of
S4: their love to you in this marriage. So I love
S4: those three questions. And I think when you consider unconditional
S4: love within marriage, those are the three that you should
S4: start with.
S7: Hmm. I like that because, Gary, that gets the focus off.
S5: Of you and you're not making me happy. You're not
S5: making me fulfilled. I've fallen out of love with you.
S5: and it and it emphasizes the choice. Those questions emphasize
S5: the choice of moving toward your spouse. Right?
S3: Yeah. And when you do that over a period of
S3: time and they see you're really serious, you're asking because
S3: you want to make their life easier, you know, and
S3: you you want they're likely to start asking you those
S3: questions because it's never a one way relationship. Our behavior
S3: affects the other person either negatively or positively. So that's
S3: why I think it's super, super important. You know, John,
S3: I think another area we discussed in the book is
S3: the whole area of communication. Of course, you know, we're
S3: talking now about loving but communication, it seems so simple
S3: talking and listening. What what's one thing that in any
S3: of these chapters that we have, because we have several
S3: chapters on the whole thing of communication that you you
S3: would want to share with our listeners today?
S4: I like the way you say communication is speaking and listening.
S4: And I think effective communication. One thing that we stress
S4: in the book is that it really starts not by speaking,
S4: but by learning to listen and to listening to more
S4: than just the words. You know, there's there's a whole
S4: set of nonverbal communication cues that happens when communication is
S4: taking place. And so you need to be observant and
S4: alert to other things as like what? What's behind the words.
S4: Try to grasp what is behind the words that are
S4: being spoken. We talk a lot about empathetic listening throughout
S4: the book, and that really is something that is essential
S4: to marriage health. What it means is it's putting yourself
S4: in your spouse's shoes and seeing the world from their perspective.
S4: This means that we listen deeply. We try to get
S4: at What our spouse is thinking, feeling, and believing. And
S4: it means that we listen reflectively, you know. Reflective listening
S4: is when you hear what they say, process it and
S4: then repeat it back to them to make sure that
S4: you understand.
S3: Yeah.
S4: That's one of the things that we say it is
S4: imperative to good communication in marriage. But I'd also say
S4: the thing that strikes me in one of the chapters
S4: is the five levels of communication. We unpack that concept.
S4: There's five levels of communication. We have to, as spouses,
S4: work hard to get beyond the third level and press
S4: into the fourth and fifth levels. But that's really where
S4: growth happens. The first level is hallway talk. I mean,
S4: it's just simply greetings to one another things that you
S4: would say to anybody. The second level is reporter talk,
S4: and that's where you talk about the facts. Like the who, what, when, where, Why?
S4: Facts of the situation. Again, we talked to most people
S4: at that level. The third level is when you get
S4: into intellectual talk and sharing thoughts and ideas with one another,
S4: but it's at this level where you can actually begin
S4: to build or develop intellectual intimacy with your spouse. For men,
S4: those first three levels, they're pretty easy. However, when we
S4: move up to the fourth and fifth level, sometimes for
S4: some men, I would include myself in that it gets
S4: a little uncomfortable. The fourth level is emotional talk, and
S4: that's where we talk about our feelings opening up to
S4: what we're feeling and our emotions, which can be a
S4: little bit scary sometimes, especially for men. It's not easy
S4: to identify emotions or feelings. There is an app out
S4: there called How We Feel that's been useful for this purpose.
S4: And and really it's something that you can use if
S4: you're stuck and don't know how to describe a feeling
S4: that you have. It can help with that. But the
S4: fifth and highest level of communication is called genuine truth talk.
S4: And that's when you're being honest and not condemning and
S4: you're being open, not demanding. At this level, a couple
S4: can cultivate spiritual intimacy. It's where they are free to
S4: speak the truth in love, like Ephesians 415 says, which says,
S4: speaking the truth in love we grow. We are to
S4: grow up in every way into him who is the
S4: head into Christ. So greater intimacy is developed through communication.
S4: And communication happens on five levels. And we're encouraging spouses
S4: to move up that ladder and to work at developing
S4: each level. It can be a sequential thing, and it's
S4: not that somebody's going to jump in and do all
S4: five at once, but they can learn to share their emotions.
S4: And as they do that, it opens the door for
S4: speaking the truth, really getting to the heart of things.
S4: And really, when we're talking about communication, understanding the heart
S4: is so important.
S3: Yeah. You know, John, I encounter many couples who say,
S3: you know, we just never talk much except about logistics.
S3: You know who's going to pick up the kids at school?
S3: And what stress her. And she'll want to go to.
S3: And one of the things we deal with in the
S3: book is just learning how to ask questions. You know, simple,
S3: just simple daily things. For example, tell me something that
S3: happened today that you really enjoyed. Oh well, tell me
S3: something that happened today that was really hard for you. Yeah.
S3: Or if you could relive today, is there anything you'd
S3: do differently? Just questions that people don't even think about asking.
S3: And we list a lot of these in the book.
S3: And and the other thing is just getting to know
S3: each other. You know, sometimes we've been married 20 and
S3: 30 years. We don't ever talk about our past. But
S3: what if you ask questions about honey? What do you
S3: remember about elementary school? Or, you know, what were the
S3: positive points about your father or your mother? Or what
S3: were the negative points? Just getting to know each other.
S3: Because if we ask questions about their history and things
S3: that they've gone, they're looking back and we're interested. The
S3: fact that we ask questions shows we're interested. It's amazing
S3: what things you can learn about each other. Marriage is
S3: about sharing life with each other. So and questioning is
S3: a big part of that. So that whole communication thing,
S3: I think we have 4 or 5 chapters on that,
S3: that whole area.
S5: So I love it. It's going to be helpful. And
S5: I'm listening to this as as a man who has
S5: my whole life. Tried to not feel anything. You know,
S5: it's like I don't want to. I want you ask
S5: me how I feel about something. I don't want to
S5: feel anything. It's it's it's threatening to me. And I
S5: saw this video the other day of a man. He
S5: looks like he's in his late 40s, maybe 50s, and
S5: he's just standing. Just sitting out back. This probably is
S5: an actor doing this, uh, because then the teaching comes
S5: on after that. So it's probably an actor, but the
S5: the fellow's his wife comes out and says, what are
S5: you doing? And he said, I'm just I'm just sitting
S5: here thinking about this, this spool of wire when we
S5: were first married. This thing was full, you know, it
S5: was a full spool of wire, but now there's only
S5: a little bit left. You know, I'm going to have
S5: to get another spool of wire. And I was just
S5: thinking about, you know, he's he's trying to communicate something deep.
S5: And she says, oh, that's I don't remember what she says.
S5: He says, that's dumb or whatever, you know, just. And
S5: and he gets up and walks away. He gets up
S5: because he he shuts down. He's sharing something from deep
S5: inside as he's just sitting out there. And that can
S5: happen on either side for the husband, or the wife
S5: can shut down the feelings of the other person. And
S5: and you don't want to do that, right, Gary?
S3: Yeah, yeah. Tell me about it. Yeah. So he says
S3: something that didn't make any sense to you at all,
S3: but rather than saying, well, that's that's stupid or I
S3: don't know what you're talking about. Well, tell me about
S3: it and ask questions. They've got something on their mind
S3: when they say something you don't understand. If you ask questions,
S3: you'll learn where they are and where they're coming from.
S3: This whole thing, you know, the scriptures say that a
S3: husband and wife are to become one flesh. I mean,
S3: it's deep, deep intimacy. You know, it's sharing life on
S3: every possible level. And that's where the marriage really finds
S3: its meaning. When you have that sense that we're we're connected.
S3: Communication is a big part of that. I mean, listening
S3: and talking about all kinds of things and sharing life
S3: with each other and emotions with each other. All that
S3: exceedingly important.
S5: All right. Let's get really, really practical for somebody who's
S5: listening today. And there's some pressure in your marriage. Uh,
S5: you're married to somebody who works all the time. There's
S5: financial stress in your marriage. There's stress with the kids. Uh,
S5: how can couples manage those challenges without having them damage
S5: their relationship? John. You first.
S4: Ah. I think when couples keep their priorities in alignment
S4: with God's design, I think that is one of the
S4: ways that they can tackle these challenges. And, um, really,
S4: it starts with putting God first. God always needs to
S4: be at the center of marriage in all of life
S4: and relationships for that matter. We often use an equilateral
S4: triangle that's one that has the same length on all sides.
S4: To illustrate the principle of keeping God at the center
S4: of marriage, he's actually at the top of this triangle
S4: at the apex, and the husband and wife are at
S4: the bottom two corners. The triangle teaches us that as
S4: both husband and wife move closer to God, they're moving
S4: up the triangle, up the sides toward God. Their relationship
S4: is not only growing closer to him, but it's also
S4: growing closer to one another. So the closer a couple
S4: gets in their relationship with God, the deeper and more
S4: meaningful their relationship is. Husband and wife are. So we
S4: encourage couples to put God first, press into God, grow
S4: in your knowledge of him, your faith and trust in him,
S4: your love for him, and obedience as well. And then
S4: second to God comes to marriage your spouse after your
S4: relationship with God, your marriage needs to be the second
S4: highest priority. That means the love of a husband for
S4: his wife and a wife's love for her husband should
S4: be the most intimate human relationship. And then children come
S4: after that. Their third. If the couple has children, they
S4: become that next priority. And making time is essential here.
S4: Oftentimes it's it's the easiest thing to neglect, especially when
S4: other pressures in life begin to mount. And for husbands,
S4: I know it's it's easy to say, hey, my work
S4: is what provides income and that's what provides good health
S4: and well-being for my family. That's why I have to
S4: give work such a high priority. And there is some
S4: truth to that. But, you know, financial security does not
S4: necessarily equal relational security. I'm sure you've heard the old
S4: adage that on a deathbed, you never hear somebody say, boy,
S4: I wish I would just have spent more time focusing
S4: on my work. It's always there. Family. So ultimately, investing
S4: time in growing and nurturing your family and the Lord
S4: is far more valuable than work. And then fourth, after
S4: that would come career and finances. Some might even put
S4: church into this fourth bucket. Regardless, couples need to resist
S4: the temptation to put that level higher than the other three.
S4: It's something that's sometimes the easiest one to to elevate,
S4: but it must always stay in its proper position there
S4: after God and family.
S3: And I certainly agree with that, John. I think, you know,
S3: if we have the sense that we have 18 years
S3: with our children, for example, and then they're going to
S3: be moving on for the most part, not always, but
S3: for the most part, whatever we're going to do, the
S3: kind of relationship we're going to build, it has to
S3: be built during those 18 years, and it's either going
S3: to be positive or it's going to be negative, and
S3: sometimes it's just that we just don't take time with
S3: our kids, you know? And so I remember when my
S3: kids were little and I of course, I could control
S3: my schedule. I was I was on a pastoral staff.
S3: So I would go home every afternoon at 3:00 and
S3: just be there with the kids when they came home
S3: from school, spend some time helping them with their homework
S3: if they needed it, and then playing games with them
S3: and all that sort of thing, you know? But we
S3: we all have the same amount of time. It's just
S3: we choose how we're going to spend it, and we
S3: can allow things to pull us away from the things
S3: that are most important. You know, I think if a
S3: couple could have a daily sit down time and I
S3: know this can be hard if you have 2 or
S3: 3 children or sometimes people have more than that. But
S3: even if it's 15 minutes just to sit down time
S3: every day, just like we do with God, at least
S3: I hope you have that kind of time with God.
S3: We sit down. with God, we sit down with each
S3: other and say, honey, tell me three things, or 2
S3: or 3 things that happened today and how you feel
S3: about them. And they just share. They can be simple things.
S3: They can be positive things. They can be negative things.
S3: It's just something that happened and how you feel about it.
S3: We're just sharing life together. We're walking through life together.
S3: And what I would also encourage, and I do this
S3: at all of my marriage conferences, is that a couple
S3: share one book every year on marriage with each other.
S3: And here's what I mean by share. You each read
S3: the same chapter and then you say, what could we
S3: learn from this chapter? And this is a great book
S3: to do that way because it's 31 chapters on 31
S3: important issues. If each of you reads that chapter and
S3: then you say, what can we learn from that chapter?
S3: I predict that the by the time you finish that,
S3: you are going to be you throughout the whole thing.
S3: You're going to be growing in your marriage. And I
S3: just say, you know, do that the rest of your life.
S3: One book every year, you share one book every year
S3: on marriage with each other. It's just a practical way
S3: of continuing to grow, because the book is an outside
S3: voice talking about a particular aspect of marriage and giving
S3: you a chance to respond to that voice. And you
S3: can disagree, or you can agree with the voice, but
S3: at least you're discussing that concept with your with your spouse.
S3: So that's one of my suggestions. And one of my
S3: hopes for this book is that couples will use it
S3: because it's, as we said earlier, it's an easy read.
S3: It's geared toward being practical, and I think any couple,
S3: whatever their background, will profit a lot as they work
S3: through this book. Well, John, as we know, a lot
S3: of people buy books on Amazon. So let me ask
S3: you this. What messages would you like to see on
S3: Amazon about this book? What is your hope?
S4: Amazon comments are, of course, very important. I'd love to
S4: see somebody on Amazon say they read the book, and
S4: it revolutionized the way they view their marriage and gave
S4: them some practical guidance and advice that really made a difference. And,
S4: you know, marriages are either growing or they're regressing. They're
S4: never standing still. It's vital that we be about growth.
S4: My hope is that this book stimulates growth and maturity
S4: in couples, individuals as as they really prioritize their relationship.
S4: I also would want to see that it would deepen
S4: their relationship with God. As mentioned before, you know, focus
S4: on their personal relationship with Jesus first. I would hope
S4: that it would prompt some people to do that and
S4: then that that would lead a couple together Other to
S4: mutual relationship with God, where they are working together on
S4: their spiritual lives through the spiritual disciplines, and reading God's
S4: Word together and discussing that and praying together. You know,
S4: I think that praying together is so important. You can't
S4: overstate the positive impact of it. One study says that
S4: couples who pray regularly together have a divorce rate of
S4: less than 1%. So I'd hope that this book stimulates
S4: prayer among couples and that if they've never read the
S4: five love languages, this includes a chapter on the love languages.
S4: And I would hope that it would turn on some
S4: lights for them, and then encourage them to take the
S4: next step of buy the book and read it and
S4: understand it even more, and then maybe take the next
S4: step and buy the five Love Languages Premium assessment for
S4: husband and wife, and really dive deeply into understanding the
S4: love languages and on the on the flip side of that,
S4: the last thing I'll say is I would hope that
S4: they would say that the apology language is is a
S4: concept that is deeply meaningful for them. When you damage
S4: your relationship in some way, it's very important that you
S4: understand your spouse's apology language and offer an apology that's
S4: meaningful to them immediately in the process. Hopefully, then they
S4: would forgive you for whatever it is that that you did.
S4: So that's my hope. I'd love to see some five
S4: star reviews, but, um, if that happens, what I just mentioned,
S4: then I'd be very happy.
S3: Yeah, well, John, I've told you this before. I really
S3: appreciate you joining me in writing this book, and I'm
S3: excited about the possibility of what you've just shared really
S3: happening in people's lives. And I want to also thank
S3: you for being with us today on building relationships.
S4: Thank you. It's been a wonderful privilege to be with you.
S5: And if you'd like to find out more about this
S5: excellent resource, go to Building Relationships. The title again is
S5: Simple Guide for a Better Marriage. Quick, practical insights. Every
S5: couple needs to thrive. Just go to building relationships.
S3: And next week, discover nine habits from the Bible and
S3: brain science that can help reduce your anxiety.
S2: Hear a fascinating discussion with Doctor Charles Stone in one week.
S2: A big thank you to our production team Steve Wick,
S2: Janice backing, and Merle Saint James. Building relationships with Doctor
S2: Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association
S2: with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks
S2: for listening.