1 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,360 S1: Question do you know what modern country the biblical story 2 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,800 S1: of Esther is based in? The answer is Iran. Now 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,440 S1: what if we really understood the people, the culture, the 4 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,000 S1: history of Iran? How would that inform our reading of Esther? 5 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,439 S1: Coming up, a conversation with someone born and raised in 6 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,800 S1: Iran who has fresh insights on the story of Esther. 7 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,680 S1: This is the land and the book. Our team consists 8 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,680 S1: of noted Old Testament scholar Charlie Dyer, producer Dan Anderson, 9 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,000 S1: and I'm John Geiger, a guy who loves to ask questions. Well, 10 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,560 S1: you know, Charlie, Passover will soon be upon us. And 11 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,000 S1: one of the traditional Passover questions is what makes this 12 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,159 S1: night different from all others? Passover is just such an 13 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,720 S1: important biblical holiday that has great meaning for Jewish people 14 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,040 S1: and believers in Jesus. And I think this is a 15 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:54,400 S1: great question to ask. 16 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:56,200 S2: It is a great question to ask, and if you 17 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,560 S2: want to learn more about what makes Passover so special. Well, 18 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:01,950 S2: our friends at Life in Messiah are offering to mail 19 00:01:01,950 --> 00:01:06,230 S2: you a free copy of their Messianic Passover Haggadah. The 20 00:01:06,230 --> 00:01:09,030 S2: booklet will lead you through the celebration of Passover to 21 00:01:09,069 --> 00:01:12,390 S2: see the rich connections to Jesus, our Messiah, and the 22 00:01:12,390 --> 00:01:15,709 S2: Last Supper. You'll also receive a link for an interactive 23 00:01:15,750 --> 00:01:19,790 S2: Passover Seder video with the Haggadah and video. You can 24 00:01:19,790 --> 00:01:23,390 S2: celebrate Passover this year with your family and friends. To 25 00:01:23,390 --> 00:01:26,509 S2: get this free offer, just go to Life in Messiah 26 00:01:26,510 --> 00:01:29,390 S2: org and click on the radio button to find out 27 00:01:29,390 --> 00:01:33,429 S2: more and to request your copy. That's life in Messiah. 28 00:01:34,630 --> 00:01:36,870 S1: If you're new to the broadcast, this is segment one 29 00:01:36,870 --> 00:01:39,750 S1: of four in which we look at current events, things 30 00:01:39,750 --> 00:01:42,150 S1: happening in the Middle East this week and last week, Charlie, 31 00:01:42,150 --> 00:01:46,030 S1: we discussed the political turmoil roiling Israel as the ruling 32 00:01:46,030 --> 00:01:49,390 S1: coalition faced a series of crucial votes in the Knesset, 33 00:01:49,390 --> 00:01:52,830 S1: with a March 31st deadline just a few days remaining 34 00:01:52,830 --> 00:01:55,750 S1: in the month. Where does everything stand right now? 35 00:01:56,110 --> 00:01:59,140 S2: You know, Prime Minister Netanyahu appears to have retained his 36 00:01:59,140 --> 00:02:03,740 S2: title as the undisputed political chess master of Israel. Just 37 00:02:03,740 --> 00:02:05,940 S2: over a week ago, he appeared to be facing an 38 00:02:05,940 --> 00:02:10,139 S2: impossible situation with a razor thin majority in the Knesset. 39 00:02:10,180 --> 00:02:13,579 S2: The ultra-Orthodox party said they wouldn't vote for the budget 40 00:02:13,620 --> 00:02:17,220 S2: unless the Knesset first passed a bill granting military draft 41 00:02:17,220 --> 00:02:21,700 S2: exemption for the ultra-Orthodox man. Now, without their support, Netanyahu 42 00:02:21,700 --> 00:02:24,579 S2: didn't have enough votes to pass the budget, meaning the 43 00:02:24,580 --> 00:02:28,300 S2: coalition would collapse. But then he reached a deal with Ben-Gvir, 44 00:02:28,340 --> 00:02:31,300 S2: bringing the members of his party and their votes back 45 00:02:31,300 --> 00:02:34,420 S2: into the coalition and providing enough votes to pass a 46 00:02:34,460 --> 00:02:39,020 S2: budget even without the ultra-Orthodox. In the end, the ultra-Orthodox 47 00:02:39,020 --> 00:02:41,579 S2: parties were forced to back down and agree to vote 48 00:02:41,580 --> 00:02:44,300 S2: for the budget. To get the budget passed on time, 49 00:02:44,300 --> 00:02:47,660 S2: the Knesset House Committee invoked a clause in the parliamentary 50 00:02:47,660 --> 00:02:51,620 S2: rulebook to limit total debate on the budget to 15 hours, 51 00:02:51,820 --> 00:02:55,620 S2: which went all night Monday. They also limited amendment votes, 52 00:02:55,620 --> 00:03:00,010 S2: allowing just 35 votes on textual clauses and three votes 53 00:03:00,010 --> 00:03:03,730 S2: per budget item. As a result, the budget passed Tuesday 54 00:03:03,930 --> 00:03:07,250 S2: by a final vote of 66 to 52. By the 55 00:03:07,250 --> 00:03:10,330 S2: end of the week, the hotly contested judicial selection bill 56 00:03:10,330 --> 00:03:14,610 S2: also passed its final reading. The bill increases political control 57 00:03:14,610 --> 00:03:19,250 S2: over judicial appointments. Currently, a nine member judicial selection committee 58 00:03:19,250 --> 00:03:23,130 S2: makes all judicial appointments while the governments represented on the 59 00:03:23,130 --> 00:03:27,090 S2: committee they're a minority. The judiciary basically gets to choose 60 00:03:27,090 --> 00:03:31,450 S2: its own replacements. The new system removes two representatives from 61 00:03:31,450 --> 00:03:35,450 S2: the Israel Bar Association and replaces them with two lawyers, 62 00:03:35,450 --> 00:03:38,850 S2: one chosen by the coalition and the second by the opposition. 63 00:03:39,090 --> 00:03:42,250 S2: Appointments are approved by majority vote, but must include at 64 00:03:42,290 --> 00:03:45,690 S2: least one vote each from a representative of the coalition, 65 00:03:45,970 --> 00:03:48,850 S2: one from the opposition, and one from the Supreme Court, 66 00:03:48,890 --> 00:03:52,330 S2: giving all sides a veto. And the law doesn't take 67 00:03:52,330 --> 00:03:56,040 S2: effect until after the next parliamentary election. It appears to 68 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,520 S2: be a fair compromise, though it's still opposed by some. 69 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,480 S2: And in the midst of dealing with all of those items, 70 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,840 S2: the cabinet passed a vote of no confidence in the 71 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,320 S2: current attorney general, which could lead to her dismissal. And 72 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,720 S2: they also voted to dismiss the head of Shin Bet, 73 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:15,640 S2: Israel's security agency. Israel's Supreme Court has temporarily blocked both 74 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,760 S2: those decisions and will hear arguments from those opposed to 75 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,039 S2: the actions. And this gets back to the heart of 76 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,080 S2: the dispute between the government and the courts, who has 77 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,960 S2: the ultimate authority. I'm sure this will play out in 78 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,360 S2: coming months, so we'll definitely be revisiting it again. 79 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,120 S1: Well, Israel's political struggles are not unique. Turkey seems to 80 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,400 S1: be matching Israel's drama with its own. As the mayor 81 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,680 S1: of Istanbul, who was assumed to be President Erdogan's main 82 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,880 S1: opponent in the next election, was arrested for corruption and terrorism. 83 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,320 S1: What do we know about these charges? Are they trumped up? 84 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,840 S2: Well, according to Erdogan, there's no connection between the arrest 85 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,900 S2: and the fact that this individual was just days away 86 00:04:54,900 --> 00:04:58,260 S2: from being chosen to lead his party and challenge Erdogan 87 00:04:58,260 --> 00:05:01,219 S2: in the next election. Again, according to Erdogan, it's just 88 00:05:01,220 --> 00:05:06,540 S2: a coincidence that Istanbul's chief prosecutor and Turkey's, quote, independent 89 00:05:06,540 --> 00:05:10,020 S2: judiciary at this time decided to arrest him along with 90 00:05:10,020 --> 00:05:13,100 S2: scores of others in his party. In all honesty, John, 91 00:05:13,100 --> 00:05:16,900 S2: that's just hard to believe. Ekrem Imamoglu is, or at 92 00:05:16,940 --> 00:05:21,420 S2: least was, mayor of Istanbul. He's young, dynamic and he 93 00:05:21,420 --> 00:05:25,860 S2: defeated Erdogan's party's candidate for mayor of Istanbul twice. The 94 00:05:25,860 --> 00:05:28,580 S2: arrest took place just days before Emmanuel was due to 95 00:05:28,580 --> 00:05:32,700 S2: be selected as his party's candidate for the next presidential election. 96 00:05:33,060 --> 00:05:37,180 S2: According to Turkey's constitution, Erdogan's time in power ends with 97 00:05:37,180 --> 00:05:41,260 S2: the next election scheduled for 2028. But many believe he 98 00:05:41,260 --> 00:05:44,260 S2: was planning to call for early elections and then change 99 00:05:44,260 --> 00:05:48,739 S2: the constitution to allow him to continue on as president indefinitely. 100 00:05:49,100 --> 00:05:54,370 S2: In addition to being arrested. Istanbul University nullified Emmanuel's university 101 00:05:54,410 --> 00:05:58,050 S2: diploma for what they described as alleged irregularities in his 102 00:05:58,050 --> 00:06:02,930 S2: transfer from a private university 30 years ago. This move 103 00:06:02,930 --> 00:06:05,690 S2: also bars him from running for president, since the position 104 00:06:05,690 --> 00:06:10,450 S2: requires candidates to be university graduates. The court ordered Emmanuel 105 00:06:10,490 --> 00:06:13,970 S2: to be jailed pending trial on the corruption charges. They 106 00:06:13,970 --> 00:06:17,690 S2: rejected the request to have him imprisoned on terror related charges, 107 00:06:17,690 --> 00:06:20,650 S2: though he still faces prosecution on them. But since he 108 00:06:20,650 --> 00:06:23,729 S2: is already in jail, that really doesn't matter. The question 109 00:06:23,730 --> 00:06:26,130 S2: for Turkey right now is how will this play out? 110 00:06:26,330 --> 00:06:28,570 S2: This is widely seen as a political move on the 111 00:06:28,570 --> 00:06:32,250 S2: part of Erdogan to sideline one individual who stood a 112 00:06:32,250 --> 00:06:35,409 S2: good chance of defeating him in the next presidential race. 113 00:06:35,770 --> 00:06:38,210 S2: Right now, this looks more like a conspiracy or a 114 00:06:38,210 --> 00:06:42,450 S2: coup against Emmanuel, rather than just a series of coincidences, 115 00:06:42,450 --> 00:06:43,810 S2: as Erdogan might claim. 116 00:06:43,850 --> 00:06:46,450 S1: And of course, Americans like us wonder, why don't the 117 00:06:46,450 --> 00:06:49,130 S1: people speak up? Why is there no opposition? Why does 118 00:06:49,130 --> 00:06:50,130 S1: he get away with this? 119 00:06:50,610 --> 00:06:53,440 S2: Well, 1500 people did speak up and have been arrested 120 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,960 S2: and are now in jail. Erdogan has very heavy handed 121 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,479 S2: in dealing with opposition. 122 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,120 S1: From Moody Radio. This is the land and the book. 123 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,600 S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer, our host. I'm John Gager, working our 124 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,000 S1: way through a list of stories that have unfolded this 125 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,040 S1: week in the Middle East. Well, Armageddon is in the news. 126 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,480 S1: And this time, though, the focus is on the past, 127 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,000 S1: not the future. What's the latest archaeological news from the 128 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,040 S1: ancient site of Megiddo? Biblical Armageddon? 129 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,120 S2: Well, two reports have focused on excavations at Megiddo. The 130 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,960 S2: first highlighted the discovery of an Egyptian military presence at 131 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:31,480 S2: the site in 609 BC. Large amounts of Egyptian and 132 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,120 S2: Greek pottery confirmed the presence of Egyptian forces and their 133 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,440 S2: Greek mercenaries there at that time. Now, this isn't a 134 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,040 S2: surprise to those who know the Bible, because the Bible 135 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:45,440 S2: records the death of King Josiah, Judah's last good king, there, 136 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:50,150 S2: at Megiddo in 609 BC. Second Kings 2329 says As 137 00:07:50,230 --> 00:07:53,230 S2: Josiah marched out to meet Pharaoh Necho in battle, but 138 00:07:53,230 --> 00:07:56,790 S2: Necho faced him and killed him at Megiddo. Apparently, the 139 00:07:56,790 --> 00:08:00,910 S2: Egyptians then occupied Megiddo to control the strategic pass there 140 00:08:00,910 --> 00:08:04,750 S2: through Mount Carmel. The second discovery at Megiddo dates from 141 00:08:04,750 --> 00:08:08,310 S2: after the time of the New Testament. Archaeologists have uncovered 142 00:08:08,310 --> 00:08:12,150 S2: a Roman military base that housed the Roman Sixth Legion, 143 00:08:12,190 --> 00:08:16,310 S2: the so-called ironclad Legion. The camp was so large that 144 00:08:16,310 --> 00:08:19,030 S2: only a small part it's actually been excavated so far. 145 00:08:19,070 --> 00:08:23,270 S2: The rest was mapped using ground penetrating radar. Megiddo controlled 146 00:08:23,270 --> 00:08:27,030 S2: the international highway at a strategic choke point and looked 147 00:08:27,030 --> 00:08:30,390 S2: out over the Jezreel Valley. Archaeology is uncovering some of 148 00:08:30,390 --> 00:08:33,829 S2: the history that helps demonstrate why the Hill of Megiddo 149 00:08:33,870 --> 00:08:38,030 S2: was so important militarily. And from the Book of Revelation, 150 00:08:38,030 --> 00:08:40,750 S2: we know this site will play a strategic role in 151 00:08:40,750 --> 00:08:44,309 S2: the world's final conflict leading up to the return of Jesus. 152 00:08:44,309 --> 00:08:47,630 S2: So the Hill of Megiddo, Armageddon has a role in 153 00:08:47,630 --> 00:08:50,100 S2: the past, militarily and in the future. 154 00:08:50,460 --> 00:08:52,660 S1: Charlie, how likely is it that visitors, you know, a 155 00:08:52,660 --> 00:08:55,300 S1: few years from now, will see something different than what 156 00:08:55,300 --> 00:08:57,460 S1: we have been experiencing when we tour? Megiddo? 157 00:08:57,860 --> 00:08:59,819 S2: Uh, well, actually, if they if they know where to look, 158 00:08:59,860 --> 00:09:01,900 S2: you know, where the tunnel goes down and out of 159 00:09:01,900 --> 00:09:04,340 S2: the city? Yes. Uh, the water tunnel. Well, right next 160 00:09:04,340 --> 00:09:06,380 S2: to that is where they were excavating and finding the 161 00:09:06,380 --> 00:09:09,740 S2: Egyptian and Greek material. Uh, the Roman camp is down, actually, 162 00:09:09,740 --> 00:09:12,180 S2: in the valley just at the foot of Megiddo. And 163 00:09:12,179 --> 00:09:15,699 S2: so hopefully that at some point will also be open archaeologically. 164 00:09:15,940 --> 00:09:19,699 S1: Well, moving from Megiddo to Jerusalem, archaeologists continue to excavate 165 00:09:19,700 --> 00:09:23,700 S1: inside the church of the Holy Sepulchre. What have they uncovered? 166 00:09:23,980 --> 00:09:26,180 S2: Well, you know, there's a debate over the exact location 167 00:09:26,179 --> 00:09:29,140 S2: of Calvary and the tomb. We need to remember that 168 00:09:29,140 --> 00:09:32,380 S2: the exact location isn't what's important. What's important is the 169 00:09:32,380 --> 00:09:34,939 S2: reality that Jesus died on the cross for our sins 170 00:09:34,940 --> 00:09:37,140 S2: in Jerusalem, that he was buried and that he rose 171 00:09:37,140 --> 00:09:40,420 S2: from the dead. Now, I love the garden tomb, but 172 00:09:40,420 --> 00:09:42,180 S2: my head tells me that the church of the Holy 173 00:09:42,220 --> 00:09:45,740 S2: Sepulchre is likely the spot where the events actually took place, 174 00:09:45,780 --> 00:09:49,650 S2: and that's why these excavations are so important. Archaeologists are 175 00:09:49,650 --> 00:09:53,130 S2: currently exploring below the floor surrounding the Edicule, the building 176 00:09:53,130 --> 00:09:55,809 S2: where the tomb was. They knew the area was originally 177 00:09:55,809 --> 00:09:57,929 S2: used as a quarry, and after the quarry went out 178 00:09:57,929 --> 00:10:00,210 S2: of use, they've now discovered it was turned into an 179 00:10:00,210 --> 00:10:03,450 S2: agricultural site. Tombs were carved into the sides of the 180 00:10:03,450 --> 00:10:07,330 S2: former quarry, and low stone walls were erected inside the area, 181 00:10:07,330 --> 00:10:10,530 S2: and the space between them was filled with dirt. Archaeobotanical 182 00:10:10,530 --> 00:10:13,850 S2: and pollen analysis of that dirt shows that the area 183 00:10:13,890 --> 00:10:17,730 S2: grew olive trees and grapevines. This matches the Apostle John's 184 00:10:17,730 --> 00:10:20,530 S2: description of the area around the tomb. He wrote. Now, 185 00:10:20,530 --> 00:10:23,089 S2: in the place where he was crucified, there was a garden, 186 00:10:23,090 --> 00:10:25,650 S2: and in the garden a new sepulchre. Now these current 187 00:10:25,650 --> 00:10:29,610 S2: excavations don't resolve the debate between the two potential sites, 188 00:10:29,610 --> 00:10:32,210 S2: but they do help show us that both sites match 189 00:10:32,210 --> 00:10:34,209 S2: the details found in the Bible. 190 00:10:34,490 --> 00:10:37,010 S1: Wow. That's interesting Charlie, thank you for that update on 191 00:10:37,010 --> 00:10:40,250 S1: both Megiddo and Armageddon and our new stories as well. 192 00:10:40,290 --> 00:10:42,770 S1: Coming up next, a look at Esther from someone who 193 00:10:42,770 --> 00:10:45,809 S1: grew up in Iran, the country where Esther is based. 194 00:10:45,850 --> 00:10:48,440 S1: That's all ahead on today's edition of The Land and 195 00:10:48,440 --> 00:11:07,400 S1: the book from Moody Radio. An impossible dream, a forbidden romance, 196 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,840 S1: a mysterious book a simple cook navigates through heartache and 197 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:16,040 S1: danger in Sousa's ancient kitchens. Along the journey, she becomes 198 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,800 S1: Queen Esther's treasured friend. The story is fiction, yeah, but 199 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,559 S1: it sheds light on the life of the biblical character 200 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,760 S1: we know as Esther. I think you'll enjoy this conversation 201 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,640 S1: coming up on the land and the book. Hey, welcome 202 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,640 S1: back to segment two. I'm John Gager, inviting you to 203 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,640 S1: pause with me for this creative idea in loving our 204 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,600 S1: Muslim neighbors and coworkers for Christ. So you're standing in 205 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,920 S1: line at the bank and the teller is a muslim woman. 206 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,880 S1: May you talk to her or should you not? Let's 207 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:46,900 S1: ask Stefano. Affair with call of Hope. 208 00:11:47,460 --> 00:11:51,420 S3: Well, you are not embarrassing her if you talk to her. 209 00:11:51,460 --> 00:11:54,939 S3: No problem. In business life, that's okay. And even in 210 00:11:54,940 --> 00:11:59,500 S3: many Muslim countries, that's totally normal. When you enter into 211 00:11:59,540 --> 00:12:04,060 S3: Dubai or Qatar, there will be a woman issuing your visa, 212 00:12:04,059 --> 00:12:08,380 S3: so that's fine. But that does not mean that you 213 00:12:08,380 --> 00:12:12,100 S3: should go into a conversation for sure. Not about your 214 00:12:12,100 --> 00:12:15,700 S3: faith with a muslim woman. This is something you should 215 00:12:15,700 --> 00:12:19,540 S3: leave to your wife, to your sister, to your friend 216 00:12:19,540 --> 00:12:24,660 S3: at church. Let them talk to this Muslim woman. But 217 00:12:25,100 --> 00:12:28,220 S3: in business life, and when they talk to you and 218 00:12:28,220 --> 00:12:31,179 S3: when they wish you a good day. Oh, of course 219 00:12:31,220 --> 00:12:33,220 S3: you reply. But don't shake hands. 220 00:12:33,260 --> 00:12:36,100 S1: And any other engagement with a muslim woman should, in 221 00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:38,860 S1: a social setting, should definitely be woman to woman. 222 00:12:38,860 --> 00:12:41,939 S3: Absolutely. Or you take your wife with you. You know, 223 00:12:41,980 --> 00:12:45,410 S3: that's also possible. You can And be there as a couple. 224 00:12:45,450 --> 00:12:48,569 S1: Okay. Stefano Ferrer is with call of Hope U.S. Practical 225 00:12:48,570 --> 00:12:53,570 S1: Insights for sharing Jesus with your Muslim friends. Born in 226 00:12:53,570 --> 00:12:56,850 S1: the Middle East, Tessa Afshar spent her teen years in 227 00:12:56,850 --> 00:13:00,370 S1: England and later moved to the United States. Her conversion 228 00:13:00,370 --> 00:13:04,090 S1: to Christianity in her 20s changed the course of her life. 229 00:13:04,290 --> 00:13:07,050 S1: She holds a master of Divinity from Yale, where she 230 00:13:07,050 --> 00:13:10,130 S1: served as the co-chair of the Evangelical Fellowship for a year. 231 00:13:10,490 --> 00:13:13,610 S1: Tessa is a devoted wife, a mediocre gardener. At least 232 00:13:13,610 --> 00:13:17,050 S1: that's her statement. I doubt that, and an enthusiastic cook 233 00:13:17,050 --> 00:13:20,410 S1: of biblical recipes. You may know her best, though, for 234 00:13:20,410 --> 00:13:23,890 S1: her many books. Tessa's ancient historical fiction has been on 235 00:13:23,890 --> 00:13:27,530 S1: several bestseller lists and has been translated into Get This 236 00:13:27,530 --> 00:13:32,090 S1: 12 languages. Her novels have won many awards, and Tessa 237 00:13:32,090 --> 00:13:35,130 S1: is one of my wife's very favorite authors. It's an 238 00:13:35,130 --> 00:13:38,050 S1: honor to welcome you back to the land and the book. Tessa. 239 00:13:38,370 --> 00:13:41,330 S4: I'm so delighted to join you and your listeners. John. 240 00:13:41,370 --> 00:13:42,890 S4: Thank you for asking me. 241 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,320 S1: So the setting for your novel, which of course, is 242 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,800 S1: intricately woven together with the biblical account of Esther, takes 243 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,280 S1: place in the ancient city of Susa. And I'm told 244 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:55,440 S1: that Susa was located in the lower Zagros Mountains of 245 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,319 S1: southwest Iran, a vital center in the ancient Near East, 246 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,720 S1: the capital of Elam. What else can you tell us 247 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:02,640 S1: about Susa? 248 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,000 S4: Well, of course, at the time the nation was called Persia, 249 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:12,160 S4: and it was the greatest nation that the world had seen. 250 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,120 S4: It was an empire that had broken all the records 251 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:21,240 S4: of size up until that point. They spread from India 252 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,080 S4: to Egypt, and because of that they had five capitals, 253 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,080 S4: not just one. And Susa was one of those capital. 254 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,120 S4: Susa was an ancient city. It was a city that 255 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:37,000 S4: had been already quite great long before the Persians came 256 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,280 S4: to power. The king before the one who married Esther, 257 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,150 S4: After Darius had taken that Susa that had at the 258 00:14:45,150 --> 00:14:48,390 S4: time sort of fallen on hard times, and he had 259 00:14:48,430 --> 00:14:52,229 S4: built it up again, and he had made it grand again, 260 00:14:52,430 --> 00:14:55,310 S4: and he had transformed it into one of the capitals 261 00:14:55,310 --> 00:14:59,550 S4: of Persia. I believe that Esther probably grew up in 262 00:14:59,550 --> 00:15:03,110 S4: this very area. She, at a very young age, lost 263 00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:07,070 S4: her parents and was raised by Mordecai, who was a cousin, 264 00:15:07,310 --> 00:15:10,830 S4: and although she grew up as a Jew, she grew 265 00:15:10,830 --> 00:15:14,070 S4: up probably in a Jewish neighborhood. She grew up with 266 00:15:14,270 --> 00:15:17,870 S4: the teachings of the Lord. So even though she would 267 00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:22,870 S4: have grown up in the same city that Persians ruled 268 00:15:22,870 --> 00:15:26,310 S4: and Persians lived in, she would still have had her 269 00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:29,070 S4: own sort of separate existence, if that makes sense. 270 00:15:29,110 --> 00:15:32,030 S1: Okay. Our guest today on the land and the book 271 00:15:32,030 --> 00:15:34,950 S1: is Tessa Afshar. Born in the Middle East, she brings 272 00:15:34,950 --> 00:15:38,310 S1: us unique insights into the life of Queen Esther using 273 00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:41,260 S1: the tool of fiction. Here's an odd question what do 274 00:15:41,260 --> 00:15:43,940 S1: we know about the diet of folks in Susa during 275 00:15:43,980 --> 00:15:46,500 S1: Esther's day? What did they eat? Or do we really 276 00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:47,100 S1: not know? 277 00:15:47,620 --> 00:15:52,100 S4: So the Persians liked meat a lot, and in a 278 00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:55,660 S4: given palace they probably would have had about a thousand 279 00:15:55,660 --> 00:15:59,540 S4: animals that would be roasted for the day, because they 280 00:15:59,540 --> 00:16:04,420 S4: didn't just feed the courtiers and the king and his family, 281 00:16:04,420 --> 00:16:08,060 S4: but they also said the soldiers, his special guard who 282 00:16:08,060 --> 00:16:11,380 S4: were called the immortals and the guests, and then the 283 00:16:11,380 --> 00:16:14,420 S4: servants who worked in the palace, got to take the 284 00:16:14,420 --> 00:16:16,820 S4: leftovers home with them. It was one of the perks 285 00:16:16,820 --> 00:16:19,620 S4: of working in the palace. Now we also know that 286 00:16:19,620 --> 00:16:25,300 S4: they had wine and grapes and figs and a whole 287 00:16:25,340 --> 00:16:27,940 S4: bunch of other things. A lot of spices. 288 00:16:28,180 --> 00:16:31,300 S1: Well, I like this idea of of takeout. That sounds 289 00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:31,900 S1: good to me. 290 00:16:31,940 --> 00:16:32,860 S5: Nice benefit. 291 00:16:33,740 --> 00:16:36,540 S1: Well, ultimately, if I've got my history correct here, Esther 292 00:16:36,540 --> 00:16:39,450 S1: is chosen to be the queen of Xerxes, who ruled 293 00:16:39,450 --> 00:16:43,490 S1: from 486 to about 465 BC. What do we know 294 00:16:43,490 --> 00:16:46,650 S1: about this king that might help us better understand Esther 295 00:16:46,650 --> 00:16:48,450 S1: and the challenges that she faced? 296 00:16:48,810 --> 00:16:51,570 S4: So Xerxes was the son of Darius. He was the 297 00:16:51,570 --> 00:16:55,770 S4: grandson of Cyrus the Great. So right before the story 298 00:16:55,770 --> 00:16:59,330 S4: of Esther. So at the time that the whole problem 299 00:16:59,330 --> 00:17:03,690 S4: arose with Haman sort of coming up with this terrible 300 00:17:03,730 --> 00:17:08,290 S4: edict and convincing the king to set all the Jews 301 00:17:08,290 --> 00:17:12,689 S4: in all the 127 provinces to death. Right before this, 302 00:17:12,730 --> 00:17:14,810 S4: Esther had been married for five years. And when you 303 00:17:14,810 --> 00:17:18,250 S4: look at the years before this and up to his 304 00:17:18,250 --> 00:17:21,850 S4: marriage to Esther, we find that Xerxes had been through 305 00:17:21,850 --> 00:17:25,129 S4: a lot of difficulties. So he had lost a war 306 00:17:25,170 --> 00:17:28,810 S4: to Greece. There had been some several terrible battles, and 307 00:17:28,810 --> 00:17:31,490 S4: a lot of Persians had been killed. And then right 308 00:17:31,490 --> 00:17:34,850 S4: after that, there were a couple of serious uprisings. One 309 00:17:34,850 --> 00:17:39,120 S4: was in Babylon that he had to put out these fires, 310 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,520 S4: and he'd just been going from one hard thing to 311 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,400 S4: another to another. And by the time we meet him 312 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,640 S4: in the book of Esther, we get a sense he 313 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:51,000 S4: drinks too much. He doesn't trust his own judgment. You know, 314 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,440 S4: he's not in a good place. So I think for 315 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,760 S4: Esther at that time, on the one hand, there are 316 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,880 S4: certain things that are good about him, because we realize 317 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,359 S4: that as soon as he recognizes that he's made an error, 318 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,479 S4: that he has put his trust in Haman, who's a 319 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:12,240 S4: terrible person, he immediately sort of pulls back and tries 320 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,120 S4: to do what he can to put it to right, 321 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,360 S4: to put his mistakes to right. So there are some 322 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,640 S4: really good things about him, but I assume that when 323 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,120 S4: Esther first married him, he was a bit of a mess. 324 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,680 S1: If you're just joining us, this is the land and 325 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,040 S1: the book. I'm John Gager. We're talking with Tessa Afshar, 326 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,600 S1: who's written the fictional work The Queen's Cook, based in 327 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,600 S1: the times of the biblical Queen Esther, and with some 328 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,990 S1: wonderful imagination and a bit of creative license. You've crafted 329 00:18:38,990 --> 00:18:42,149 S1: this novel The Queen's Cook. Give us a brief overview. 330 00:18:42,670 --> 00:18:45,790 S4: So you know, John. So many people have written wonderful 331 00:18:45,790 --> 00:18:50,710 S4: books about Esther, and because I was myself born in Persia, 332 00:18:50,750 --> 00:18:53,950 S4: and Esther has always meant a lot to me, and 333 00:18:53,950 --> 00:18:57,430 S4: I always wanted to come back and do something about her. 334 00:18:57,430 --> 00:19:00,350 S4: But I also felt like her life had been covered 335 00:19:00,350 --> 00:19:03,870 S4: really well by movies and books. So I decided to 336 00:19:03,910 --> 00:19:09,350 S4: write a series of three books based on Esther's fictional friends. 337 00:19:09,550 --> 00:19:11,790 S4: So on the one hand, I can go to town 338 00:19:11,790 --> 00:19:15,190 S4: and just write a story kind of more freely about 339 00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:17,910 S4: people who don't exist. But on the other hand, I 340 00:19:17,910 --> 00:19:22,190 S4: can also show a little bit about Esther's world, about 341 00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:26,390 S4: the Persian world, about the different characters who lived in 342 00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:29,389 S4: that world, the different backgrounds who lived in that world 343 00:19:29,670 --> 00:19:33,790 S4: by showcasing people who are from different backgrounds. So the 344 00:19:33,790 --> 00:19:37,449 S4: first Character is a young woman who is from a 345 00:19:37,450 --> 00:19:41,650 S4: Persian background, and she ends up becoming a cook in 346 00:19:41,650 --> 00:19:47,050 S4: Esther's kitchens. Now there were almost 300 cooks in each palace. 347 00:19:47,090 --> 00:19:47,570 S5: Really? 348 00:19:47,770 --> 00:19:50,330 S4: Yeah. And it's extraordinary. Now, they were supposed to clean 349 00:19:50,330 --> 00:19:54,689 S4: up after themselves. There weren't that many cleaning servants, but 350 00:19:54,690 --> 00:19:59,169 S4: the cooks had specialties. Some of them focused on dairy, 351 00:19:59,170 --> 00:20:01,930 S4: some of them focused on dessert, some of them focused 352 00:20:01,930 --> 00:20:06,450 S4: on main meals. So obviously there was a lot of 353 00:20:06,850 --> 00:20:10,090 S4: focus on food. The Persians like their food. They like 354 00:20:10,130 --> 00:20:11,889 S4: their sweets. They like their desserts. 355 00:20:11,930 --> 00:20:13,409 S5: You know, I'm with them. 356 00:20:14,410 --> 00:20:18,130 S4: Me too. Totally. I had such a blast just coming up. 357 00:20:18,130 --> 00:20:18,490 S5: With. 358 00:20:18,730 --> 00:20:21,370 S4: That part of the story and the research. The research 359 00:20:21,369 --> 00:20:25,169 S4: included John cooking a lot, so that was great. My 360 00:20:25,170 --> 00:20:30,010 S4: husband loved that. But the story is basically showcases Esther 361 00:20:30,210 --> 00:20:32,850 S4: in first person. She pops up every once in a 362 00:20:32,890 --> 00:20:37,520 S4: while through her secret scrolls telling her side of the 363 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,880 S4: story a little bit. But mostly it's the story of 364 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,680 S4: this young woman who becomes a cook. 365 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:43,640 S5: I have to ask. 366 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,520 S1: You, if you had an audience today with the biblical 367 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:52,240 S1: character Esther, just given a moment, what one question would 368 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,000 S1: you ask her if you were given only one? 369 00:20:54,520 --> 00:21:00,080 S4: The Lord gave you such profound responsibility. Did you find 370 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,000 S4: happiness as you juggled that responsibility? 371 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:04,639 S5: Hmm. 372 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,440 S1: All right. What about you? As you're writing this? Anything 373 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,640 S1: that maybe caught you by surprise as you researched this book? 374 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,160 S1: I mean, as you said, you're of Persian descent. This 375 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,480 S1: is a home base for you. Any surprises. 376 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:16,800 S5: Though? 377 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,760 S4: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I grew up in Persia, but 378 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,880 S4: I did not grow up a Christian, so I knew 379 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,520 S4: about the kings. But I'd never been told about Esther. 380 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,040 S4: And it wasn't until I became a Christian that then 381 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,600 S4: I started reading the Bible and I was like, hey, 382 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,030 S4: wait a minute. Like, these are my kings. 383 00:21:33,030 --> 00:21:34,070 S5: These are my people. 384 00:21:34,510 --> 00:21:37,310 S4: Um, you know, I went to school studying them, but 385 00:21:37,310 --> 00:21:40,550 S4: I never heard about Esther. And it's actually not a surprise. 386 00:21:40,630 --> 00:21:44,469 S4: Number one, Esther and Vashti. Neither of them. So the 387 00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:48,389 S4: king's first wife. And neither of them are mentioned in 388 00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:51,550 S4: any of the extra-biblical documents that we have from the 389 00:21:51,550 --> 00:21:54,550 S4: Persians or from the Greeks, because the Greeks tell us 390 00:21:54,750 --> 00:21:57,310 S4: a lot about what we know about the Persians, rather 391 00:21:57,310 --> 00:21:59,950 S4: than the Persians themselves haven't left a lot, or what 392 00:21:59,950 --> 00:22:02,990 S4: they have left has been destroyed. So I was surprised 393 00:22:03,030 --> 00:22:06,869 S4: that the only wife of Xerxes that we hear about 394 00:22:06,910 --> 00:22:09,710 S4: is a woman named Amestris. The question is, why is 395 00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:13,429 S4: Esther not mentioned? But when I researched, I found out 396 00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:17,630 S4: one fact about the Persians. They only recorded the names 397 00:22:17,630 --> 00:22:20,310 S4: of the wives of the king who bore him children. 398 00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:25,270 S4: So it is not surprising that Vashti isn't mentioned that 399 00:22:25,310 --> 00:22:29,070 S4: Esther isn't mentioned. If they did not bear him children, 400 00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:32,100 S4: then they would not have been in the records. So 401 00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:35,459 S4: whereas Amestris gave him several children and it's one of 402 00:22:35,460 --> 00:22:40,020 S4: her sons who then becomes Artaxerxes, the following king, we 403 00:22:40,020 --> 00:22:44,300 S4: do hear from Josephus. Josephus mentions Esther in his book, 404 00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:48,580 S4: but Josephus is 75 A.D. so we're talking over 400 405 00:22:48,580 --> 00:22:51,300 S4: years after the events of the Book of Esther. So 406 00:22:51,340 --> 00:22:56,020 S4: that was kind of a fun insight into why Esther 407 00:22:56,020 --> 00:23:00,020 S4: is not mentioned outside the Bible. And another insight that 408 00:23:00,020 --> 00:23:03,419 S4: I had when I was studying the book was Esther's 409 00:23:03,420 --> 00:23:07,500 S4: initial response to Mordecai. As you probably know this first 410 00:23:07,540 --> 00:23:10,300 S4: when Mordecai says, but who knows that you were brought 411 00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:12,340 S4: to royal position for such a time as this? It's 412 00:23:12,340 --> 00:23:14,939 S4: such a blessing that verse to so many of us, 413 00:23:14,940 --> 00:23:17,500 S4: because it reminds us that God has not brought us 414 00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:21,420 S4: to this particular time, this particular season, this particular location, 415 00:23:21,460 --> 00:23:25,580 S4: even by happenstance that we are here for a reason. Yes, 416 00:23:25,619 --> 00:23:29,300 S4: for this season. And it's very encouraging. But originally when 417 00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:32,650 S4: you read the context and Mordecai says those words to Esther, 418 00:23:32,770 --> 00:23:36,490 S4: I think he doesn't mean them necessarily all sweet and 419 00:23:36,490 --> 00:23:38,770 S4: lovey dovey. He means them as a little bit of 420 00:23:38,810 --> 00:23:42,850 S4: a slap to the back of Esther's hand, because he 421 00:23:42,850 --> 00:23:46,850 S4: has brought to him the problem of the people he 422 00:23:46,850 --> 00:23:49,770 S4: brought to her. He has said to her, our people 423 00:23:49,770 --> 00:23:52,330 S4: are about to die. Will you go and intercede with 424 00:23:52,330 --> 00:23:57,170 S4: the King on our behalf? And yet, Esther's first response. 425 00:23:57,170 --> 00:24:00,090 S4: She doesn't say the words I can't, but more or 426 00:24:00,090 --> 00:24:02,690 S4: less that's what she's saying. She says, look, everybody knows 427 00:24:02,690 --> 00:24:05,530 S4: if I come before the King without being sent for 428 00:24:05,570 --> 00:24:08,369 S4: the law, says, I shall be put to death. And 429 00:24:08,369 --> 00:24:12,690 S4: he hasn't sent for me for 30 days. And essentially, 430 00:24:12,690 --> 00:24:14,530 S4: what she's saying is, first of all, he's not going 431 00:24:14,530 --> 00:24:17,450 S4: to send for me. And secondly, the king who hasn't 432 00:24:17,450 --> 00:24:21,010 S4: sent for me in 30 days. She's basically saying, is 433 00:24:21,010 --> 00:24:24,050 S4: not going to do that for me now. So her 434 00:24:24,050 --> 00:24:27,129 S4: first response to Mordecai is, I can't do this. I'm 435 00:24:27,130 --> 00:24:30,040 S4: useless to you. I have no authority. I have no 436 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,200 S4: influence with my husband. So Mordecai then tells her that 437 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:40,000 S4: verse because Mordecai knows for Esther she's only looking at 438 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,280 S4: her life through the past 30 days. She's looking through 439 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,040 S4: the lens of the 30 days where she has been 440 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,440 S4: a rejected wife. Her husband, for whatever reason after five 441 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,720 S4: years of marriage, has not sent for her, is not interested. 442 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,840 S4: We don't know why. The reason isn't given, but that's 443 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,119 S4: all she's looking at. She's looking at life through the 444 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:03,000 S4: lens of an abandoned and rejected wife. And Mordecai is saying, 445 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,240 S4: set that 30 days aside. It's God's such a time 446 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:13,720 S4: as this that matters. God's timing always trumps our 30 days. 447 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,399 S4: Set aside the lens of your past 30 days, 30 months, 448 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,919 S4: 30 years, whatever it is that's got you discouraged right now. 449 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,600 S4: And look at your life through the lens of God. 450 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:26,800 S4: Such a time as this. 451 00:25:27,230 --> 00:25:30,149 S1: That's a lovely way to land this conversation. So much 452 00:25:30,150 --> 00:25:32,149 S1: more to think about. And I love the way you 453 00:25:32,190 --> 00:25:34,950 S1: help us wrestle with it all. Even if it's fiction. 454 00:25:34,950 --> 00:25:37,990 S1: It is taking us to the biblical story and reminding 455 00:25:37,990 --> 00:25:40,550 S1: us of important truths about God. Thank you, Tessa, for 456 00:25:40,550 --> 00:25:42,670 S1: the book and for this conversation. 457 00:25:42,910 --> 00:25:45,590 S4: It has been my absolute pleasure. Thank you for hanging 458 00:25:45,590 --> 00:25:46,630 S4: out with me today. 459 00:25:46,630 --> 00:25:46,790 S5: And. 460 00:25:46,790 --> 00:25:49,390 S1: We'll look forward to another conversation in the future. Hey, 461 00:25:49,390 --> 00:25:51,750 S1: coming up on the land and the book your friend 462 00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:54,030 S1: in mind, Jerry Peterman taking a look at your Bible 463 00:25:54,030 --> 00:26:08,230 S1: questions right here. It was written by more than 40 464 00:26:08,270 --> 00:26:13,030 S1: divinely inspired authors over a period of nearly 2000 years. 465 00:26:13,070 --> 00:26:16,030 S1: The Bible. That's the focus of this third segment here 466 00:26:16,030 --> 00:26:19,390 S1: on the land and the book, more specifically, your questions 467 00:26:19,390 --> 00:26:22,469 S1: as you open your copy of the Bible. I'm John Yeager, 468 00:26:22,510 --> 00:26:25,389 S1: about to be joined by our host, Doctor Gerald Peterman. 469 00:26:25,390 --> 00:26:28,420 S1: Before we get to that though, let's ask ourselves what 470 00:26:28,420 --> 00:26:32,660 S1: does Passover mean for us as believers in Jesus? Some 471 00:26:32,660 --> 00:26:34,740 S1: will remember the story from the book of Exodus, but 472 00:26:34,740 --> 00:26:37,179 S1: there's more to it. Did you know that the Last 473 00:26:37,180 --> 00:26:40,300 S1: Supper was really a Passover meal, and that Jesus and 474 00:26:40,300 --> 00:26:44,020 S1: his disciples celebrated Passover, but it also foreshadowed his death 475 00:26:44,020 --> 00:26:47,580 S1: on the cross for our redemption. Now, Jewish people, of course, 476 00:26:47,619 --> 00:26:51,260 S1: have been observing the feast of Passover for thousands of years. 477 00:26:51,700 --> 00:26:55,180 S1: So understanding its history, its importance will help us better 478 00:26:55,180 --> 00:26:58,180 S1: connect with our Jewish friends, our Jewish neighbors. And boy, 479 00:26:58,180 --> 00:27:00,740 S1: what better way to do that than to experience a 480 00:27:00,740 --> 00:27:05,500 S1: Passover Seder yourself? If you've never celebrated Passover well, our 481 00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:08,100 S1: friends at Life in Messiah would love to partner with 482 00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:11,980 S1: you in hosting a Seder experience. Every year, their staff 483 00:27:11,980 --> 00:27:15,900 S1: engage with churches and small groups in an interactive Messiah 484 00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:19,580 S1: in the Passover Seder, allowing participants to taste and see 485 00:27:19,580 --> 00:27:22,619 S1: the redemption story. So bottom line, if you're interested in 486 00:27:22,660 --> 00:27:25,409 S1: having somebody come to lead a Seder in your area. 487 00:27:25,450 --> 00:27:29,570 S1: Just head to life in Messiah Dot and click on 488 00:27:29,570 --> 00:27:32,250 S1: the Moody Radio button there to learn more. That's life 489 00:27:32,250 --> 00:27:36,930 S1: in Messiah. All right. Let me say welcome to Doctor 490 00:27:36,930 --> 00:27:38,890 S1: Gerald Peterman. Always good to have you in the studio. 491 00:27:38,930 --> 00:27:40,090 S6: Oh it's a pleasure to be here. 492 00:27:40,290 --> 00:27:42,530 S1: What's the best thing about working with students at Moody? 493 00:27:42,570 --> 00:27:43,810 S1: What do you like about that? 494 00:27:44,450 --> 00:27:46,330 S6: Oh, wow. Do I have to pick just one thing? 495 00:27:46,369 --> 00:27:47,170 S1: No. You can choose. 496 00:27:47,170 --> 00:27:47,490 S5: Several. 497 00:27:47,530 --> 00:27:53,250 S6: My goodness. Um. They're young, they're energetic. Yeah. And, um, 498 00:27:53,530 --> 00:27:56,290 S6: they just want to learn. They just soak it up, 499 00:27:56,650 --> 00:27:58,570 S6: and they will stop by the office and want to 500 00:27:58,570 --> 00:28:01,290 S6: talk about life and what's going on in life. Uh, 501 00:28:01,850 --> 00:28:05,250 S6: it's just a really blessed time to be welcomed into 502 00:28:05,290 --> 00:28:08,450 S6: many young lives and try to give them some encouragement. 503 00:28:08,650 --> 00:28:09,370 S6: I just love it. 504 00:28:09,410 --> 00:28:11,609 S1: Now, I take it you've been here. How long on faculty? 505 00:28:11,650 --> 00:28:12,810 S6: This is my 23rd year. 506 00:28:12,850 --> 00:28:16,050 S1: 23 years. So I would guess that you're kind of pro. 507 00:28:16,170 --> 00:28:19,210 S1: The idea of parents who are listening, grandparents who are listening, 508 00:28:19,210 --> 00:28:21,369 S1: sending their kids to Moody as a as a. 509 00:28:21,410 --> 00:28:24,510 S6: Oh, I'm totally pro sending your grandchildren to Moody or 510 00:28:24,510 --> 00:28:26,109 S6: sending your children to Moody? Totally, bro. 511 00:28:26,150 --> 00:28:28,870 S1: Yeah, it's a great environment. Our kids went here, and 512 00:28:28,869 --> 00:28:30,990 S1: if their kids know what's good for them, why, they'll come. 513 00:28:30,990 --> 00:28:31,510 S5: Here, too. 514 00:28:32,470 --> 00:28:35,550 S1: All right, let's get to question number one. This is 515 00:28:35,550 --> 00:28:38,630 S1: from me. Uh, last year, our pastor encouraged our small 516 00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:42,150 S1: group to memorize Romans eight, all 39 verses. It was 517 00:28:42,150 --> 00:28:43,990 S1: a struggle, but we got through it. But of course, 518 00:28:43,990 --> 00:28:47,070 S1: you can't help but memorize something and not wonder about it. 519 00:28:47,110 --> 00:28:50,030 S1: In particular, Romans eight says the mind set on the 520 00:28:50,030 --> 00:28:52,630 S1: flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit 521 00:28:52,630 --> 00:28:54,870 S1: is life and peace, because the mind set on the 522 00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:57,630 S1: flesh is hostile toward God, for it does not subject 523 00:28:57,630 --> 00:28:59,270 S1: itself to the law of God, for it is not 524 00:28:59,270 --> 00:29:01,310 S1: even able to do so. And those who are in 525 00:29:01,310 --> 00:29:04,710 S1: the flesh cannot please God. All right, so here's my question. 526 00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:07,030 S1: Since I do continue to sin in this life, just 527 00:29:07,070 --> 00:29:10,590 S1: ask my wife or our producer, Dan Anderson, what is 528 00:29:10,590 --> 00:29:13,870 S1: an objective measuring standard that I can use to know 529 00:29:13,870 --> 00:29:16,630 S1: if I am more about the flesh than the spirit? 530 00:29:16,990 --> 00:29:20,830 S6: Okay. Um, I don't think there is an objective measure, 531 00:29:21,270 --> 00:29:24,620 S6: but I'll not leave you there. Okay. Okay. That is. 532 00:29:24,940 --> 00:29:29,180 S6: I think there is a reliable subjective measure. We are 533 00:29:29,180 --> 00:29:32,620 S6: talking about a relationship. We're talking about a relationship we 534 00:29:32,620 --> 00:29:35,940 S6: have with God. And relationships always have their ups and downs. 535 00:29:35,940 --> 00:29:38,620 S6: So what are we looking for? We're looking for this. 536 00:29:39,020 --> 00:29:42,580 S6: Am I more obedient this year than last? Am I 537 00:29:42,620 --> 00:29:46,300 S6: more loving this year than last year? Am I more 538 00:29:46,340 --> 00:29:49,180 S6: anxious for worship and enjoying it more this year than 539 00:29:49,180 --> 00:29:51,900 S6: last year? And you can discern these things in your 540 00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:55,020 S6: own heart and mind before God. So I would use 541 00:29:55,020 --> 00:29:58,940 S6: these questions. These are questions based on passing time. Am 542 00:29:58,940 --> 00:30:02,700 S6: I being transformed? If you're being transformed, that is the 543 00:30:02,740 --> 00:30:04,940 S6: work of the spirit. And then I'd get other people 544 00:30:04,940 --> 00:30:08,980 S6: involved in here too. You mentioned your wife like asking her, honey, 545 00:30:09,140 --> 00:30:10,980 S6: how have I been growing? And where do I still 546 00:30:10,980 --> 00:30:11,620 S6: need to grow? 547 00:30:11,660 --> 00:30:12,100 S5: Yeah. 548 00:30:12,420 --> 00:30:15,340 S6: And she will give you an honest answer. Thanks be 549 00:30:15,340 --> 00:30:17,980 S6: to God. Right. And because she knows you. 550 00:30:17,980 --> 00:30:18,300 S5: That's right. 551 00:30:18,340 --> 00:30:22,050 S6: And so she can see. Here's where you are changing. 552 00:30:22,170 --> 00:30:25,050 S6: And again, that is the work of God's Spirit. And 553 00:30:25,050 --> 00:30:27,770 S6: here's where you need to change. And that's the work 554 00:30:27,770 --> 00:30:31,250 S6: of God's Spirit in her to direct you. So I 555 00:30:31,250 --> 00:30:36,530 S6: would use these valuable subjective tools of relationship to answer 556 00:30:36,530 --> 00:30:37,090 S6: the question. 557 00:30:37,130 --> 00:30:41,210 S1: Okay, here's a question about the messianic Psalms. Why do 558 00:30:41,210 --> 00:30:46,130 S1: they sometimes seem to have bits and pieces of messianic references, 559 00:30:46,130 --> 00:30:48,530 S1: but then they transition to other content? Why not make 560 00:30:48,530 --> 00:30:51,970 S1: these references more apparent? I don't understand the weaving in 561 00:30:51,970 --> 00:30:55,370 S1: and out of a different scenario or different context. 562 00:30:55,410 --> 00:30:58,370 S6: There is a total weaving in and out and it 563 00:30:58,370 --> 00:31:02,530 S6: can surprise us or maybe even frustrate us. The revelation 564 00:31:02,850 --> 00:31:06,410 S6: about Messiah we see in Psalms, and indeed the revelation 565 00:31:06,450 --> 00:31:10,970 S6: of the whole Old Testament unfolds slowly. Let me illustrate 566 00:31:10,970 --> 00:31:15,090 S6: it this way. Imagine you meet a new friend at church, 567 00:31:15,410 --> 00:31:18,890 S6: and you talk and your relationship grows and you continue 568 00:31:18,890 --> 00:31:21,240 S6: to talk and you go out for coffee and you 569 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:22,880 S6: have them over for dinner and you talk some more, 570 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,560 S6: and then years go on in your relationship. And that 571 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:31,560 S6: is about early on your relationship. Your conversations more shallow. 572 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,960 S6: And as it goes on, it's deeper and deeper and deeper. 573 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:40,400 S6: So God is revealing himself, but he doesn't download all 574 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,480 S6: the terabytes of his data. In Genesis one. He unfolds 575 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,000 S6: it slowly. And then that shows up in the Messianic Psalms, 576 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,320 S6: because the Psalm is relevant to the people of God 577 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:56,640 S6: when it's written. So David writes a song, a psalm, 578 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,840 S6: it gets sung in worship. It's relevant to its time period. 579 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,200 S6: But then there'll also be hints, as you mentioned, also 580 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,200 S6: be hints in it about the Messiah, and those things 581 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,560 S6: get all pieced together. Psalm after psalm after psalm after 582 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,680 S6: psalm after psalm. And by the time we get to 583 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,360 S6: the end of the Psalm, then look back on them, 584 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,840 S6: we say, oh, these 150 are telling us many, many, 585 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,550 S6: many things about the Messiah, but not all at once. 586 00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:24,550 S6: It's over the course of generations that it gets told. 587 00:32:24,830 --> 00:32:28,590 S1: Yeah, I'm intrigued with the the revelation of Jesus in 588 00:32:28,590 --> 00:32:31,670 S1: the Old Testament in general. That's why I'm so intrigued 589 00:32:31,670 --> 00:32:34,830 S1: with the the scene with Jesus on the road to 590 00:32:34,870 --> 00:32:39,790 S1: Emmaus with those two. They're upset because Jesus has been crucified. And, 591 00:32:39,790 --> 00:32:41,790 S1: you know, don't you even know about this? They don't 592 00:32:41,790 --> 00:32:43,990 S1: know who he is. And if I if I'm quoting 593 00:32:43,990 --> 00:32:46,430 S1: the phrase right, it says. And then Jesus began to 594 00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:50,910 S1: show them from Moses and the prophets everything that had 595 00:32:50,910 --> 00:32:54,390 S1: to do with him. So just the thought that Moses, 596 00:32:54,390 --> 00:32:58,870 S1: we're talking Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, numbers, Deuteronomy, the prophets are 597 00:32:58,870 --> 00:33:01,350 S1: all pointing to Jesus. That's mind blowing. 598 00:33:01,390 --> 00:33:05,510 S6: That's right. The whole Old Testament looks forward to Christ. 599 00:33:05,550 --> 00:33:08,390 S6: The whole Old Testament. Not every single verse, but the 600 00:33:08,390 --> 00:33:11,190 S6: Old Testament as a whole looks forward to him. This 601 00:33:11,190 --> 00:33:13,910 S6: is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew five. Do 602 00:33:13,910 --> 00:33:16,910 S6: not think I've come to abolish the law and the prophets. 603 00:33:16,910 --> 00:33:19,740 S6: I I've not come to abolish them, but to fulfill 604 00:33:19,740 --> 00:33:22,900 S6: them because they look forward to me, right? I added 605 00:33:22,900 --> 00:33:25,500 S6: that portion in. They look forward. They look forward to him. 606 00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:27,940 S6: So his arrival fulfills them. 607 00:33:28,220 --> 00:33:30,620 S1: And then what does that say about, I think, a 608 00:33:30,620 --> 00:33:32,860 S1: little bit of a tendency and maybe you'll disagree, but 609 00:33:32,860 --> 00:33:35,100 S1: it seems to me that a lot of churches today 610 00:33:35,260 --> 00:33:37,740 S1: are just not real big on the Old Testament. We're missing. 611 00:33:37,740 --> 00:33:38,260 S5: Out. 612 00:33:38,300 --> 00:33:42,380 S6: Sadly. Sadly, we're not big on the Old Testament, folks. 613 00:33:42,660 --> 00:33:45,420 S6: Please forgive me. The Old Testament is two thirds of 614 00:33:45,420 --> 00:33:50,220 S6: your Bible. That is the Word of God. It is rich. Rich. 615 00:33:50,660 --> 00:33:52,140 S6: So we ought to spend more time there. 616 00:33:52,660 --> 00:33:56,060 S1: That's Doctor Gerald Peterman answering Bible questions today on the 617 00:33:56,060 --> 00:33:58,500 S1: land and the book. You should know that we would 618 00:33:58,500 --> 00:34:00,660 S1: love to entertain your question, whatever it might be about 619 00:34:00,660 --> 00:34:03,820 S1: Scripture prophecy, the land of Israel. Here's how you connect 620 00:34:03,820 --> 00:34:06,300 S1: with an email. You write us at the land and 621 00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:10,140 S1: the book at Moody. That's the land and the book 622 00:34:10,180 --> 00:34:14,259 S1: at Moody. All right. I have another question from Matthew, 623 00:34:14,300 --> 00:34:17,490 S1: chapter 26. In verse 28, Jesus says to his disciples 624 00:34:17,489 --> 00:34:20,290 S1: as they eat the Last Supper, This is my blood 625 00:34:20,290 --> 00:34:23,290 S1: of the covenant which is being poured out for many 626 00:34:23,290 --> 00:34:26,450 S1: for forgiveness of sins. At first glance, the verse appears 627 00:34:26,450 --> 00:34:29,370 S1: to be saying, Jesus blood is not for the forgiveness 628 00:34:29,370 --> 00:34:32,890 S1: of all, just many. Can you please explain this unsettling 629 00:34:32,890 --> 00:34:34,009 S1: feeling I have? 630 00:34:34,050 --> 00:34:36,969 S6: Oh, I can totally understand that unsettling feeling. There are 631 00:34:36,969 --> 00:34:38,730 S6: two things to keep in mind that I think are 632 00:34:38,730 --> 00:34:41,649 S6: going to help us. First, we should think about the 633 00:34:41,650 --> 00:34:45,690 S6: word many as in contrast to few rather than many 634 00:34:45,690 --> 00:34:48,730 S6: as in contrast to all. This is an Old Testament 635 00:34:48,730 --> 00:34:53,210 S6: way of thinking. I'm thinking especially about Daniel 12 verse two, 636 00:34:53,370 --> 00:34:56,690 S6: a very important verse, and it says, and many of 637 00:34:56,690 --> 00:34:59,770 S6: those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, 638 00:35:00,090 --> 00:35:04,370 S6: some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 639 00:35:04,530 --> 00:35:08,210 S6: That's resurrection. Yeah, right. But we know from John chapter 640 00:35:08,210 --> 00:35:11,810 S6: five that every human being will be resurrected, but two 641 00:35:11,850 --> 00:35:16,750 S6: different destinies. Right? Right. So whereas John says everyone will 642 00:35:16,750 --> 00:35:21,150 S6: be resurrected, Daniel says many, many in contrast to few 643 00:35:21,469 --> 00:35:24,950 S6: rather than many, in contrast to all or none. So 644 00:35:24,950 --> 00:35:26,589 S6: that's the first thing to keep in mind. The second 645 00:35:26,590 --> 00:35:28,989 S6: thing to keep in mind is when our Lord talks 646 00:35:28,989 --> 00:35:31,590 S6: about the covenant and the pouring out of his blood 647 00:35:31,590 --> 00:35:35,390 S6: in Matthew 26, I take it he's drawing on Isaiah 648 00:35:35,390 --> 00:35:39,150 S6: 53 and using its language. What do we find there? 649 00:35:39,430 --> 00:35:42,750 S6: We find the suffering servant will justify the many, as 650 00:35:42,750 --> 00:35:45,549 S6: he will bear their iniquities. And he poured out his 651 00:35:45,550 --> 00:35:49,390 S6: soul and was numbered among the transgressors. Yet he himself 652 00:35:49,390 --> 00:35:52,910 S6: bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors. 653 00:35:53,469 --> 00:35:57,030 S6: What does many mean here? I take it many is 654 00:35:57,310 --> 00:36:01,149 S6: a great number. So our Lord Jesus is drawing on 655 00:36:01,150 --> 00:36:04,030 S6: this language from Isaiah 53. 656 00:36:04,070 --> 00:36:04,590 S5: Okay. 657 00:36:04,630 --> 00:36:07,830 S1: Well, a great question and thank you for your patience. Boy, 658 00:36:07,870 --> 00:36:10,709 S1: many questions come to mind right when we open the 659 00:36:10,750 --> 00:36:12,390 S1: Word of God. And if you've got one that you'd 660 00:36:12,390 --> 00:36:15,260 S1: like to send our way, please know it's welcome again 661 00:36:15,260 --> 00:36:18,140 S1: to connect with us via email at The Land and 662 00:36:18,140 --> 00:36:23,220 S1: the Book at Moody's. That's the land, and the book 663 00:36:23,420 --> 00:36:26,819 S1: at Moody's takes just a couple of days, or maybe 664 00:36:26,820 --> 00:36:28,660 S1: a week at the very most, and you'll get an answer. 665 00:36:28,660 --> 00:36:31,020 S1: And then we might just use your question in a 666 00:36:31,020 --> 00:36:34,779 S1: future edition of our broadcast. Have you downloaded the podcast 667 00:36:34,820 --> 00:36:36,620 S1: option yet? Have you shared it with a friend? It's 668 00:36:36,620 --> 00:36:38,819 S1: a great way to extend this ministry. We don't have 669 00:36:38,820 --> 00:36:41,299 S1: an advertising budget, but we do have you. And if 670 00:36:41,300 --> 00:36:43,460 S1: you like what you're hearing, why not pass along the 671 00:36:43,460 --> 00:36:46,380 S1: word about our podcast? You'll find it at the Land 672 00:36:46,420 --> 00:36:49,660 S1: and the book org. Looking forward to connecting with your 673 00:36:49,660 --> 00:37:07,020 S1: friend in mind. Charlie Dyer. He's next. It's a vanishing species. 674 00:37:07,300 --> 00:37:10,420 S1: The handwritten letter. Hi, I'm John Geiger. This is the 675 00:37:10,420 --> 00:37:12,210 S1: land and the book. Think about. 676 00:37:12,210 --> 00:37:12,290 S5: It. 677 00:37:12,290 --> 00:37:14,890 S1: When was the last time you received a letter that 678 00:37:14,890 --> 00:37:17,610 S1: was written by hand? You know, there are legal letters. 679 00:37:17,610 --> 00:37:20,729 S1: Of course there are love letters. But are. Our host, 680 00:37:20,730 --> 00:37:23,009 S1: Charlie Dyer, is leading us in a devotional series that 681 00:37:23,010 --> 00:37:26,050 S1: takes us to the Lachish letters. Charlie, is that right? 682 00:37:26,050 --> 00:37:27,410 S2: That's exactly right, John. 683 00:37:27,450 --> 00:37:29,609 S1: All right. Where are we headed to, biblically speaking? 684 00:37:29,610 --> 00:37:32,130 S2: Well, we're heading to the city of Lachish, just about 685 00:37:32,130 --> 00:37:34,169 S2: 20 miles southwest of Jerusalem. 686 00:37:34,210 --> 00:37:36,729 S1: All right. Looking forward to that devotional right after this 687 00:37:36,730 --> 00:37:40,129 S1: perspective from an Israel traveler who's back with this thought 688 00:37:40,130 --> 00:37:40,930 S1: for you and me. 689 00:37:45,210 --> 00:37:49,089 S7: This is Grady Hauser. I think when we got back 690 00:37:49,090 --> 00:37:52,609 S7: from Israel, we've often said, I've studied the Bible and 691 00:37:52,610 --> 00:37:58,050 S7: the scriptures for 50 years. And yet, after coming back 692 00:37:58,050 --> 00:38:00,850 S7: from Israel, we have we've often said that it was 693 00:38:00,850 --> 00:38:03,370 S7: like reading in black and white before, and now you're 694 00:38:03,370 --> 00:38:06,569 S7: reading in color. I'm sure that's not original with us, 695 00:38:06,570 --> 00:38:10,130 S7: but it was certainly true for us, our experience. I 696 00:38:10,130 --> 00:38:13,279 S7: would think of a couple of things very briefly, to 697 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,920 S7: go to the Sea of Galilee and to be on 698 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:21,759 S7: the northwest shore, and to realize that possibly within a 699 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,520 S7: few hundred yards, give or take, up and down that shore, 700 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,759 S7: you're looking at the very spot where Jesus would have 701 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,640 S7: talked to and Peter and John, and to have called 702 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,760 S7: them from their fishing to follow him. Or perhaps also, 703 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,160 S7: I would think of how meaningful it was to go 704 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,200 S7: to Caesarea Philippi and to realize why it was that 705 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,840 S7: Jesus walked all that way up there with his disciples, 706 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,480 S7: to tell them that I will build my church, and 707 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,160 S7: the gates of hell will not prevail against it. And 708 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,800 S7: what that would have meant for them sitting there at 709 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,719 S7: Caesarea Philippi, at that pagan shrine. 710 00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:03,080 S1: Our Bibles are open now to Jeremiah chapter 34. Charlie, 711 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,000 S1: I think that's where you want to take us in 712 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,160 S1: your devotional today. 713 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,000 S2: That's right. And we're at the seventh in my series 714 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,509 S2: of 11 devotionals that I'm calling 11 inscriptions to the Bible. 715 00:39:13,750 --> 00:39:17,190 S2: These are written inscriptions uncovered by archaeologists that give us 716 00:39:17,190 --> 00:39:20,590 S2: new insight into our understanding of the Bible. And today's 717 00:39:20,590 --> 00:39:23,589 S2: journey takes us to the Shfela, the low foothills to 718 00:39:23,630 --> 00:39:27,430 S2: the southwest of Jerusalem, to visit the site of ancient Lachish. 719 00:39:27,710 --> 00:39:30,150 S2: If you ask me to pick the most amazing site 720 00:39:30,150 --> 00:39:33,990 S2: in Israel not visited by most tourists, I would choose 721 00:39:33,989 --> 00:39:37,310 S2: this spot. It's possible you don't even recall reading about 722 00:39:37,310 --> 00:39:40,390 S2: Lachish in the Bible. And even if you've been to Israel, 723 00:39:40,430 --> 00:39:42,989 S2: unless you were on a study tour, it's likely you 724 00:39:43,030 --> 00:39:46,189 S2: never visited the site. So why does it rank so 725 00:39:46,190 --> 00:39:49,469 S2: high on my list of amazing places? And what's the 726 00:39:49,469 --> 00:39:52,950 S2: inscription that was discovered here? Well, first let me tell 727 00:39:52,950 --> 00:39:55,990 S2: you about the site. Lachish was the second largest city 728 00:39:55,989 --> 00:39:57,870 S2: in the Kingdom of Judah at the time of the 729 00:39:57,870 --> 00:40:01,670 S2: First Temple. The only city that was larger was Jerusalem, 730 00:40:01,950 --> 00:40:05,149 S2: and it played a significant role in Bible history. It 731 00:40:05,150 --> 00:40:07,469 S2: was one of the five cities in the coalition that 732 00:40:07,469 --> 00:40:12,500 S2: attacked Gibeon at the time of Joshua. Later, following Solomon's death, 733 00:40:12,540 --> 00:40:15,460 S2: Lachish was one of the 15 cities fortified by King 734 00:40:15,460 --> 00:40:19,460 S2: Rehoboam to guard against attack. Another of Judah's kings was 735 00:40:19,460 --> 00:40:23,980 S2: assassinated there, and the city was eventually attacked and destroyed 736 00:40:23,980 --> 00:40:28,299 S2: by both King Sennacherib of Assyria and King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. 737 00:40:28,660 --> 00:40:31,580 S2: Both knew the strategic importance of this city for the 738 00:40:31,580 --> 00:40:34,859 S2: defense of the Kingdom of Judah. It was so important 739 00:40:34,860 --> 00:40:37,859 S2: that Sennacherib decorated a room in his palace with a 740 00:40:37,860 --> 00:40:41,660 S2: series of reliefs showing its capture. I also like Lachish 741 00:40:41,660 --> 00:40:45,060 S2: because of its archaeological potential. The city had to have 742 00:40:45,060 --> 00:40:47,580 S2: a way to get water inside the walls, but it 743 00:40:47,580 --> 00:40:51,140 S2: hasn't yet been discovered. One thing that has been uncovered, though, 744 00:40:51,140 --> 00:40:54,299 S2: is the massive gate complex to the city. Standing at 745 00:40:54,300 --> 00:40:55,980 S2: the foot of the hill and looking up at the 746 00:40:55,980 --> 00:40:59,260 S2: foundations of the gate. I can see why Sennacherib boasted 747 00:40:59,260 --> 00:41:02,339 S2: about capturing the city, but the inscription we want to 748 00:41:02,340 --> 00:41:05,500 S2: look at today dates to just over a century after 749 00:41:05,500 --> 00:41:09,930 S2: the time of Sennacherib. The enemy camped outside Lachish isn't Assyria, 750 00:41:09,930 --> 00:41:13,410 S2: it's Babylon. King Nebuchadnezzar has just sent his army to 751 00:41:13,450 --> 00:41:16,650 S2: Judah for the third time, and this time he'll accept 752 00:41:16,650 --> 00:41:20,250 S2: nothing less than the total destruction of this nation that 753 00:41:20,250 --> 00:41:23,650 S2: has dared to rebel against him. The campaign against Judah 754 00:41:23,650 --> 00:41:28,089 S2: was long and ferocious. Nebuchadnezzar began by systematically moving his 755 00:41:28,090 --> 00:41:32,489 S2: army through the land, methodically eliminating one city after another. 756 00:41:32,770 --> 00:41:36,850 S2: Toward the end, only three major cities remained. Jeremiah described 757 00:41:36,850 --> 00:41:39,890 S2: it this way. Then Jeremiah the prophet spoke all these 758 00:41:39,890 --> 00:41:43,130 S2: words to Zedekiah, king of Judah and Jerusalem. When the 759 00:41:43,130 --> 00:41:46,210 S2: army of the king of Babylon was fighting against Jerusalem 760 00:41:46,210 --> 00:41:49,209 S2: and against all the remaining cities of Judah, that is, 761 00:41:49,210 --> 00:41:53,529 S2: Lachish and Azekah. For they alone remained as fortified cities 762 00:41:53,530 --> 00:41:58,890 S2: among the cities of Judah. Lachish, Azekah, and Jerusalem. Every 763 00:41:58,890 --> 00:42:03,529 S2: other major town was gone, captured, destroyed. And now Nebuchadnezzar 764 00:42:03,530 --> 00:42:07,840 S2: could concentrate his forces on these three remaining fortress cities. 765 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,960 S2: But in what order did they fall? To find the answer, 766 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,320 S2: we need to go inside the gate here in Lachish. 767 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,000 S2: So follow me up the ramp. When archaeologists excavated the 768 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,960 S2: plaza between the outer and inner gates of Lachish, they 769 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,440 S2: came across 20 pieces of broken pottery with words written 770 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,560 S2: on them. In this era, before papyrus or parchment was 771 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,680 S2: widely available, the quickest way to pen a note was 772 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,080 S2: to write it out on a piece of broken pottery. 773 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,560 S2: These pieces were found right where we're standing. A large 774 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,040 S2: replica of one is on display right here. The originals 775 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,600 S2: are in the British Museum, so today this replica will 776 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,600 S2: have to suffice. These notes were written to the commanding 777 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,239 S2: officer at Lachish by one of the army units out 778 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,640 S2: in the field. They were military reports intended to keep 779 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,520 S2: the commander informed. I want to take you back in 780 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,520 S2: time to the moment when this particular letter arrived. Imagine 781 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,200 S2: you're sitting here with the commander of the forces at Lachish. 782 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,759 S2: It's the middle of the night, and the soldiers on 783 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,940 S2: duty have just used a rope to pull an exhausted 784 00:43:05,940 --> 00:43:09,140 S2: soldier over the wall. He's out of breath, partly from 785 00:43:09,140 --> 00:43:13,300 S2: running for several miles and partly out of fear and exhaustion. 786 00:43:13,660 --> 00:43:16,620 S2: He just snaked his way through the Babylonian lines with 787 00:43:16,620 --> 00:43:19,540 S2: a message from the commander in the field. You listen 788 00:43:19,540 --> 00:43:22,700 S2: intently as the city scribe reads the faint writing on 789 00:43:22,700 --> 00:43:25,739 S2: the broken piece of pottery, squinting as he tries to 790 00:43:25,780 --> 00:43:28,020 S2: make out the letters in the light of a flickering 791 00:43:28,020 --> 00:43:30,979 S2: oil lamp. May God cause my Lord to hear this 792 00:43:30,980 --> 00:43:34,140 S2: very day tidings of good. And now, according to everything 793 00:43:34,140 --> 00:43:36,900 S2: which my Lord has sent, this has your servant done. 794 00:43:37,180 --> 00:43:39,500 S2: I wrote on the sheet according to everything which you 795 00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:41,859 S2: sent me. And inasmuch as my Lord has sent me 796 00:43:41,900 --> 00:43:45,779 S2: concerning the matter of there's no one there. And as 797 00:43:45,780 --> 00:43:48,700 S2: for Samuccaya, Shemaiah took him and sent him up to 798 00:43:48,739 --> 00:43:51,540 S2: the city. And may my lord be appraised that we're 799 00:43:51,540 --> 00:43:54,580 S2: watching for the signal fires of Lachish, according to all 800 00:43:54,580 --> 00:43:57,739 S2: the signs which my lord has given, because we cannot 801 00:43:57,739 --> 00:44:02,140 S2: see Azekah. The evening signal fires were a means of communication. 802 00:44:02,180 --> 00:44:04,930 S2: The cities could signal to each other, and they could 803 00:44:04,930 --> 00:44:08,090 S2: also use beacons to communicate with the army in the field. 804 00:44:08,290 --> 00:44:11,890 S2: The distance between Lachish and Azekah was 11 miles. 11 805 00:44:11,890 --> 00:44:15,410 S2: miles of strategic territory that guarded the roadways from the 806 00:44:15,410 --> 00:44:18,489 S2: coast into the hill country of Judah. But now the 807 00:44:18,489 --> 00:44:21,530 S2: lights of Azekah, one of the two remaining cities anchoring 808 00:44:21,530 --> 00:44:25,970 S2: the region, had gone out. The message was clear. Azekah 809 00:44:25,969 --> 00:44:30,330 S2: had fallen. After the fall of Azekah, Nebuchadnezzar's forces continued 810 00:44:30,330 --> 00:44:33,330 S2: their assault on Lachish and Jerusalem. We don't know how 811 00:44:33,330 --> 00:44:36,450 S2: much longer it took, but Lachish was the next to fall. 812 00:44:36,650 --> 00:44:41,490 S2: And that left only Jerusalem. Finally, on July 18th, 586 BC, 813 00:44:41,610 --> 00:44:45,130 S2: the Babylonians broke through the walls of Jerusalem after a 814 00:44:45,130 --> 00:44:48,570 S2: 30 month siege. The city had been starved into submission. 815 00:44:49,010 --> 00:44:51,250 S2: All the food was gone. Some of the people had 816 00:44:51,250 --> 00:44:55,610 S2: even resorted to cannibalism. The final assault met with little resistance, 817 00:44:55,610 --> 00:44:58,370 S2: and the Babylonians pushed their way through the city in 818 00:44:58,370 --> 00:45:04,000 S2: a murderous rampage of looting and revenge. Azekah, Lachish and Jerusalem. 819 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,239 S2: Like dominoes, each fell in order. The last of the 820 00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:11,040 S2: cities standing against Babylon. And the letters discovered in the 821 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,040 S2: gate here at Lachish help us reconstruct the order of 822 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,719 S2: their fall. As we head back to the bus and 823 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,160 S2: get ready to board. Is there a lesson we can 824 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,319 S2: carry away from these broken pieces of pottery found in 825 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,279 S2: the city gate at Lachish? I think there is, and 826 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,759 S2: it's a sobering reminder to our own generation. In Jeremiah 827 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,480 S2: 34 to 39, the prophet records the final collapse of 828 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,040 S2: the Kingdom of Judah, including the city of Lachish, but 829 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,439 S2: much earlier in his ministry, at a time when such 830 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,759 S2: a thing couldn't even be imagined. Jeremiah had issued a 831 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,800 S2: warning to those who thought they could disregard God with impunity. 832 00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,080 S2: An appalling and horrible thing has happened to the land. 833 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,200 S2: The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule in their 834 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,880 S2: own authority, and my people love it so. But what 835 00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,270 S2: will you do at the end of it? These broken 836 00:46:01,270 --> 00:46:03,870 S2: pieces of pottery remind us that there is a price 837 00:46:03,870 --> 00:46:08,549 S2: to pay for ignoring, disregarding, and disobeying God. We can 838 00:46:08,550 --> 00:46:12,910 S2: choose our actions, but we can't choose the consequences. Just 839 00:46:12,950 --> 00:46:18,069 S2: ask the people who once lived in Azekah, Lachish, and Jerusalem. Now, 840 00:46:18,070 --> 00:46:20,110 S2: if you'd like to see a photo of the Lachish 841 00:46:20,110 --> 00:46:22,830 S2: Letter four on display in the city gate, or one 842 00:46:22,830 --> 00:46:25,870 S2: of the other inscriptions that's on display in the British Museum, 843 00:46:26,190 --> 00:46:28,070 S2: just head over to our land in the book Facebook 844 00:46:28,070 --> 00:46:29,830 S2: page where I've posted them. 845 00:46:30,150 --> 00:46:32,469 S1: Thank you, Charlie, for the devotional and as well for 846 00:46:32,469 --> 00:46:34,950 S1: posting those photos. I love going to the Facebook page 847 00:46:34,989 --> 00:46:37,989 S1: and doing exactly what you're suggesting. There are lots of 848 00:46:37,989 --> 00:46:41,029 S1: great things to see. Appreciate that. Well, it's always a 849 00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:43,670 S1: great visit with Charlie Dyer, our host, and with you, 850 00:46:43,710 --> 00:46:45,910 S1: we want to say thank you to this station for 851 00:46:45,910 --> 00:46:48,350 S1: carving out air time for the land and the book. 852 00:46:48,350 --> 00:46:51,069 S1: I'm John Gager The Land and the book is a 853 00:46:51,070 --> 00:46:54,950 S1: production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.