1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 S1: Hi friends. Thanks so much for downloading this podcast, and 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,000 S1: I hope truly that you will hear something that will encourage, edify, equip, 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,360 S1: and enlighten you to get out there and influence and 4 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,040 S1: occupy until he comes. And on that note, may I 5 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,080 S1: take just a few moments here to describe this month's 6 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,920 S1: truth tool? It's by pastor Jack Hibbs. He's written the 7 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,040 S1: book called Called to Take a Bold Stand. I absolutely 8 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,520 S1: love this book because it reminds us that in Christ 9 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,480 S1: all things pass away. All things become new, that we 10 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,240 S1: are standing for his truth, that we have a new nature. 11 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,080 S1: Because of him, we should be living boldly. But far 12 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,120 S1: too often we retreat out of fear from cultural blowback. 13 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,600 S1: So I want to encourage all of us to just 14 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,800 S1: stand up for Christ, to be unashamed of who we 15 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,120 S1: are in him, and to go into a culture that's 16 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,600 S1: telling us in no uncertain terms. They're lost and they're hurting. 17 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,760 S1: So if you'd like a copy of Pastor Hibbs new 18 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,400 S1: book called Call to Take a Bold Stand, just give 19 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,720 S1: a gift of any amount by calling eight, seven, seven. 20 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,680 S1: Janet 58. We are listener supported radio, and this is 21 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,640 S1: my way of saying thank you. So that number again 22 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,200 S1: is 877 Janet 58. Or you can go online in 23 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,080 S1: the market with Janet dot o r g. Go to 24 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,200 S1: the bottom of the page. There's the cover of Pastor 25 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,680 S1: Jack's book. Click it on. Give a gift and you'll 26 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:08,199 S1: be good to go. And we'll send you a copy 27 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,040 S1: as a way of saying thank you. Don't forget, you 28 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,560 S1: can also become a partial partner. Those are people who 29 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,200 S1: give every single month at a level of their own choosing. 30 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,200 S1: My way of saying thank you to the partial partners 31 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:18,759 S1: is to make sure you get a copy of each 32 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,640 S1: month's truth tool, and you get our weekly newsletter, which 33 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,280 S1: includes some of my writing and an audio piece only 34 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,760 S1: for my partial partners. So whether it's a one time 35 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,600 S1: gift or you want to be an ongoing giver and 36 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,920 S1: become a partial partner, that's your call. But I want 37 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,080 S1: to thank you in advance. Eight seven, seven Janet 58. 38 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,320 S1: Or online at In the Market with Janet Parshall. Now 39 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,160 S1: please enjoy the broadcast. 40 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:41,960 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 41 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,520 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 42 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,800 S4: Americans worshiping government over God. 43 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,480 S5: Extremely rare safety move by a 17 years. 44 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:52,520 S4: The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated. 45 00:02:08,370 --> 00:02:11,010 S1: Hi friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Partial. 46 00:02:11,050 --> 00:02:12,970 S1: I'm thrilled we're going to spend the hour together and 47 00:02:12,970 --> 00:02:16,810 S1: we're going to have a very open and transparent conversation 48 00:02:16,810 --> 00:02:20,889 S1: about a very difficult subject, generally in the culture writ large, 49 00:02:21,250 --> 00:02:24,410 S1: because the numbers swirling around this are abysmal. By the way. 50 00:02:24,410 --> 00:02:27,250 S1: But it's an even more problematic conversation in the church 51 00:02:27,530 --> 00:02:31,250 S1: and that is the subject of divorce. Give me five pastors. 52 00:02:31,250 --> 00:02:33,929 S1: I'll give you 15 opinions, and they'll all go back 53 00:02:33,930 --> 00:02:37,290 S1: to the same passages of Scripture. And it's how they 54 00:02:37,290 --> 00:02:39,889 S1: get interpreted that causes some of the problems. For example, 55 00:02:39,930 --> 00:02:42,850 S1: on the issue of abuse, what constitutes abuse, which would 56 00:02:42,850 --> 00:02:46,090 S1: be grounds to dissolve the marriage? Does it have to 57 00:02:46,090 --> 00:02:48,450 S1: be physical? Can it be emotional? Is it a form 58 00:02:48,450 --> 00:02:50,530 S1: of abandonment? The list goes on and on and on, 59 00:02:50,530 --> 00:02:53,010 S1: and it's a very hard subject. But one part of 60 00:02:53,010 --> 00:02:55,769 S1: the conversation that I, at least from my perspective, from 61 00:02:55,770 --> 00:02:58,050 S1: the peanut gallery that is often lacking in the church. 62 00:02:58,090 --> 00:03:02,290 S1: On this painful subject is the person who has been divorced, 63 00:03:02,330 --> 00:03:06,530 S1: not initiated the proceedings, but said, I'm leaving you for 64 00:03:06,530 --> 00:03:09,370 S1: fill in the blank. And then there you are. As 65 00:03:09,370 --> 00:03:12,850 S1: the divorced spouse didn't want, it wasn't something you ever 66 00:03:12,850 --> 00:03:15,649 S1: counted on, planned on for saw in your future. And 67 00:03:15,650 --> 00:03:18,090 S1: there you are. And now the D word like the 68 00:03:18,090 --> 00:03:21,690 S1: scarlet letter A hangs around your neck. Wait, where do 69 00:03:21,690 --> 00:03:24,490 S1: you fit in? Are you in the singles Bible study? 70 00:03:24,530 --> 00:03:27,889 S1: Are you in the over 50 Bible study? Uh. Why 71 00:03:27,889 --> 00:03:30,690 S1: do we treat widows differently than we would treat treat 72 00:03:30,690 --> 00:03:33,850 S1: women that have been divorced, for example. So this is 73 00:03:33,850 --> 00:03:36,130 S1: one of those tough subjects. And that's okay because one 74 00:03:36,130 --> 00:03:38,170 S1: of the reasons this program exists is to help us 75 00:03:38,170 --> 00:03:40,490 S1: grow up in him, to get off that diet of milk, 76 00:03:40,530 --> 00:03:42,010 S1: to move to a diet of meat and get some 77 00:03:42,010 --> 00:03:44,770 S1: spiritual heft on our bones. Also, in the process, as 78 00:03:44,770 --> 00:03:47,010 S1: we get prepared to go out and influence and occupy 79 00:03:47,010 --> 00:03:50,450 S1: in the marketplace of ideas, is to understand what Jesus's 80 00:03:50,450 --> 00:03:53,010 S1: heart is on this particular subject. So how do we 81 00:03:53,330 --> 00:03:56,450 S1: love the curtain, the hurt and broken culture that's right 82 00:03:56,450 --> 00:03:59,170 S1: outside our front door. And how do we comfort those 83 00:03:59,170 --> 00:04:02,330 S1: who are hurt and broken in our own family of faith? 84 00:04:02,450 --> 00:04:04,930 S1: Because they too want to go out and influence and 85 00:04:04,970 --> 00:04:07,770 S1: occupy until he comes. So I've been reading a book 86 00:04:07,770 --> 00:04:12,809 S1: that's a fabulous. It's written with pain, with clarity, with transparency, 87 00:04:12,810 --> 00:04:16,170 S1: and with biblical encouragement, and that's a rare commodity to 88 00:04:16,210 --> 00:04:18,369 S1: find all those books in one place. It's called this 89 00:04:18,370 --> 00:04:21,369 S1: was never the Plan. Ain't that the truth, by the way? 90 00:04:21,650 --> 00:04:23,810 S1: And the subtitle of the book is walking with God 91 00:04:23,810 --> 00:04:27,810 S1: Through the Heartache of Divorce. Our guest, our friend, the 92 00:04:27,810 --> 00:04:30,450 S1: author this hour is Vanessa Reisner, who has gone through 93 00:04:30,450 --> 00:04:32,450 S1: this experience. And that's why she wrote the book. And 94 00:04:32,450 --> 00:04:35,570 S1: she knows pain. She knows pain in her life. She's 95 00:04:35,570 --> 00:04:38,210 S1: dealt with polio. She's dealt with the effects of polio 96 00:04:38,210 --> 00:04:41,490 S1: as an adult. She's buried an infant son. And then 97 00:04:41,490 --> 00:04:44,170 S1: after many, many years of marriage to the one that 98 00:04:44,170 --> 00:04:47,090 S1: she said I do as a covenant relationship before a 99 00:04:47,089 --> 00:04:49,610 S1: living God, in the presence of witnesses that came to 100 00:04:49,650 --> 00:04:52,850 S1: an end. And she never, ever thought that would be 101 00:04:52,850 --> 00:04:55,300 S1: a part of the plan. Benita, thank you so much 102 00:04:55,300 --> 00:04:58,260 S1: for being here and thank you for your courage in 103 00:04:58,260 --> 00:05:00,860 S1: writing this book. This is an iffy one inside the church. 104 00:05:00,900 --> 00:05:03,060 S1: You know it's going to be. This is the pro team. 105 00:05:03,060 --> 00:05:05,140 S1: This is the con team. And you knew that when 106 00:05:05,140 --> 00:05:07,339 S1: you wrote this book. But I think you didn't care. 107 00:05:07,339 --> 00:05:09,020 S1: I think you wanted to do was to get past 108 00:05:09,020 --> 00:05:10,940 S1: the line of division, and you wanted to get to 109 00:05:10,980 --> 00:05:14,020 S1: people who were hurting because you knew that exponentially what 110 00:05:14,020 --> 00:05:17,500 S1: you were experience is, has and is being experienced by 111 00:05:17,500 --> 00:05:21,540 S1: those for whom divorce left them in the wake of destruction. 112 00:05:21,540 --> 00:05:23,940 S1: So thank you. It wasn't an easy book to write, 113 00:05:23,940 --> 00:05:26,380 S1: but boy was it powerful. And it was effective not 114 00:05:26,380 --> 00:05:29,580 S1: being divorced myself. You made me feel through your words 115 00:05:29,580 --> 00:05:32,260 S1: and your writing, your pain. And I thank you for that. 116 00:05:32,260 --> 00:05:33,420 S1: It's a joy to have you here. 117 00:05:34,140 --> 00:05:37,339 S6: Oh, it's wonderful to be here, Janet. Thank you so much. 118 00:05:37,380 --> 00:05:41,900 S6: And you just described so beautifully what that felt like. 119 00:05:42,100 --> 00:05:44,659 S6: Like I just didn't know where to fit in in 120 00:05:44,660 --> 00:05:48,219 S6: the church. I felt like I had a scarlet D 121 00:05:48,260 --> 00:05:50,940 S6: on me, and that is why I wrote the book, 122 00:05:51,300 --> 00:05:53,740 S6: even though I. Even to this day, I don't want 123 00:05:53,779 --> 00:05:57,700 S6: to be known as the divorced woman. And that's because 124 00:05:57,700 --> 00:06:00,020 S6: there is so much shame still in the church, no 125 00:06:00,020 --> 00:06:02,020 S6: matter why the divorce happened. 126 00:06:02,060 --> 00:06:03,940 S1: Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up. That is 127 00:06:03,940 --> 00:06:05,700 S1: one of the multiple things I want to talk to 128 00:06:05,700 --> 00:06:08,220 S1: you about because, you know, I often say some of 129 00:06:08,220 --> 00:06:10,300 S1: the conversations we have on this program is to help 130 00:06:10,300 --> 00:06:12,340 S1: us develop a heart like his. I love to go 131 00:06:12,339 --> 00:06:15,020 S1: through the New Testament and circle every time we read 132 00:06:15,020 --> 00:06:17,940 S1: the word. And Jesus had compassion on them. The quintessential moment, 133 00:06:17,940 --> 00:06:22,580 S1: of course, is that undescribable look that Jesus gives Peter 134 00:06:22,580 --> 00:06:25,260 S1: after Peter does exactly what Jesus said he would do. 135 00:06:25,540 --> 00:06:28,340 S1: It never says a look of condemnation. I just I 136 00:06:28,339 --> 00:06:29,900 S1: get a lump in my throat when I think about it, 137 00:06:29,900 --> 00:06:33,100 S1: because here's Peter not once but three times denies the 138 00:06:33,100 --> 00:06:35,500 S1: very Savior who would go on and lose his life 139 00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:38,580 S1: for later on. But it says, And Jesus looked at him, 140 00:06:38,580 --> 00:06:40,620 S1: and I just in every ounce of my being, I 141 00:06:40,620 --> 00:06:42,860 S1: believe it was a look of, I know Peter, and 142 00:06:42,860 --> 00:06:45,180 S1: I love you just the same. That's compassion. And I 143 00:06:45,180 --> 00:06:47,219 S1: really that's the kind of heart I want. And that's 144 00:06:47,220 --> 00:06:48,780 S1: the kind of hard I hope we translate to our 145 00:06:48,779 --> 00:06:50,860 S1: listeners as well. So I want to go back to 146 00:06:50,900 --> 00:06:53,059 S1: the facts here so that people can understand it because 147 00:06:53,060 --> 00:06:55,820 S1: sometimes we're so riveted on the. Did you work within 148 00:06:55,820 --> 00:06:58,380 S1: the lines of fill in the blank biblically? Because if 149 00:06:58,380 --> 00:07:00,620 S1: you did, fine. We'll continue this discussion. If you didn't, 150 00:07:00,660 --> 00:07:03,140 S1: you know you're anathema. We throw you outside the city gates. 151 00:07:03,380 --> 00:07:05,620 S1: You're minding your own business, looking well to the ways 152 00:07:05,620 --> 00:07:08,419 S1: of your household, and your husband comes home and says, 153 00:07:08,420 --> 00:07:10,660 S1: I fall in love with another woman. Did you see 154 00:07:10,660 --> 00:07:12,660 S1: that coming at all? Did you see any hints of 155 00:07:12,700 --> 00:07:13,940 S1: that in your relationship? 156 00:07:15,140 --> 00:07:18,500 S6: I did not, I didn't see it coming at all. 157 00:07:18,500 --> 00:07:23,260 S6: So I was absolutely stunned. But one thing that was 158 00:07:23,260 --> 00:07:27,340 S6: interesting is I look back, maybe there were little signs 159 00:07:27,460 --> 00:07:30,540 S6: that I didn't want to see, so I didn't know 160 00:07:30,540 --> 00:07:33,020 S6: it was coming. But as you know, you kind of 161 00:07:33,060 --> 00:07:35,700 S6: go back over the year before you think, oh, there 162 00:07:35,700 --> 00:07:38,060 S6: was that and oh, there was this, but I didn't 163 00:07:38,060 --> 00:07:42,020 S6: really I didn't want to mistrust him. And we're sort 164 00:07:42,020 --> 00:07:45,580 S6: of taught not to do that, to really just have 165 00:07:45,580 --> 00:07:48,500 S6: faith in your spouse. And I wanted to do that. 166 00:07:48,500 --> 00:07:51,910 S6: And so I had no idea that it was coming. 167 00:07:52,310 --> 00:07:55,630 S1: Oh, that. Can I just pause so that our friends 168 00:07:55,630 --> 00:07:57,990 S1: can walk in as they're hearing you talk, what it 169 00:07:57,990 --> 00:07:59,590 S1: feels like to have been in your skin. And for 170 00:07:59,590 --> 00:08:02,470 S1: many people, maybe this was their experience as well, but 171 00:08:02,470 --> 00:08:05,310 S1: you generally, I mean, hindsight is always 2020 when you're 172 00:08:05,310 --> 00:08:06,830 S1: in the midst of it and you don't see it. 173 00:08:06,870 --> 00:08:09,630 S1: How off putting. I mean, talk about getting knocked off 174 00:08:09,670 --> 00:08:12,470 S1: your base. Uh, one of the things you had to 175 00:08:12,470 --> 00:08:14,150 S1: do and you write about this in the book is 176 00:08:14,430 --> 00:08:17,150 S1: why is it that so often when somebody wounds us 177 00:08:17,150 --> 00:08:20,430 S1: so terribly, very often the response is, for many people, 178 00:08:20,430 --> 00:08:22,910 S1: what did I do wrong? You did that. 179 00:08:23,550 --> 00:08:27,950 S6: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I spent weeks thinking, how can 180 00:08:27,950 --> 00:08:30,630 S6: I fix this? And what have I done wrong? And 181 00:08:30,630 --> 00:08:33,030 S6: really feeling like this was up to me to make 182 00:08:33,030 --> 00:08:35,510 S6: my husband fall in love with me again, because I 183 00:08:35,510 --> 00:08:37,670 S6: had done something that he was not in love with 184 00:08:37,670 --> 00:08:40,550 S6: me anymore. I mean, it's kind of wild how our 185 00:08:40,550 --> 00:08:43,949 S6: mind goes that way, but I had been so stunned 186 00:08:43,950 --> 00:08:48,309 S6: that it happened that it just shifted everything about what 187 00:08:48,309 --> 00:08:51,510 S6: I thought was true. So my first thought was, it's me. 188 00:08:51,510 --> 00:08:52,630 S6: Something's wrong with me. 189 00:08:52,670 --> 00:08:55,189 S1: Yeah. Wow. Well, let me take a break. That's what 190 00:08:55,190 --> 00:08:56,990 S1: the music says I have to do here. There's so 191 00:08:56,990 --> 00:08:59,910 S1: much to your story. And again, let me underscore that 192 00:08:59,910 --> 00:09:03,670 S1: this wonderful book, this was never the plan. Walking with 193 00:09:03,710 --> 00:09:06,829 S1: God through the Heartache of divorce is such an encouragement 194 00:09:06,830 --> 00:09:08,910 S1: for so many of you listening all across the country 195 00:09:08,950 --> 00:09:14,270 S1: who've experienced the same thing and felt ostracized, broken, cast out, shamed, filled, 196 00:09:14,270 --> 00:09:18,070 S1: guilt ridden, wounded, unlovable. The list goes on and on, 197 00:09:18,070 --> 00:09:22,510 S1: does it not? Well, with absolute wonderful transparency and compassion, 198 00:09:22,550 --> 00:09:24,510 S1: Beneatha writes about this in her brand new book, we're 199 00:09:24,510 --> 00:09:26,790 S1: just getting started. Stick around. A lot more encouragement coming 200 00:09:26,790 --> 00:09:47,309 S1: your way after this. The Bible calls us to be 201 00:09:47,309 --> 00:09:49,350 S1: bold and courageous for the cause of the cross. But 202 00:09:49,350 --> 00:09:52,150 S1: too often we retreat because of fear of cultural blowback. 203 00:09:52,350 --> 00:09:54,470 S1: That's why I've chosen call to take a bold stand 204 00:09:54,470 --> 00:09:57,070 S1: as this month's truth tool discover how to overcome the 205 00:09:57,070 --> 00:10:00,150 S1: fear of intimidation or persecution. As for your copy of 206 00:10:00,190 --> 00:10:01,829 S1: call to take a bold stand when you give a 207 00:10:01,870 --> 00:10:04,630 S1: gift of any amount to in the market, call 877. 208 00:10:04,630 --> 00:10:08,390 S1: Janet 58. That's 877. Janet 58. Or go to in 209 00:10:08,429 --> 00:10:15,150 S1: the market with Janet Parshall. Oh. This was never the plan. 210 00:10:15,150 --> 00:10:17,670 S1: Walking with God through the heartache of divorce. It's the 211 00:10:17,670 --> 00:10:21,310 S1: new book by Beneatha Rendell and it's her story. And 212 00:10:21,670 --> 00:10:27,470 S1: it's painful, but it's so transparently true and wonderfully biblically based. 213 00:10:27,470 --> 00:10:29,510 S1: So I want to continue with what you felt like, 214 00:10:29,510 --> 00:10:32,469 S1: because I'm hoping that if for someone who hasn't gone 215 00:10:32,470 --> 00:10:36,950 S1: through this experience, they'll look differently, they'll befriend differently someone 216 00:10:36,950 --> 00:10:39,589 S1: in their church, in their family of faith community who's 217 00:10:39,590 --> 00:10:41,550 S1: gone through this and try to look at life through 218 00:10:41,550 --> 00:10:43,390 S1: their eyes and understand some of the things they've had 219 00:10:43,390 --> 00:10:46,110 S1: to deal with. So you didn't see it coming. You 220 00:10:46,150 --> 00:10:49,720 S1: actually tried to go through counseling. He makes the statement, 221 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,280 S1: you kept a journal, and I'm so glad you did, 222 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,959 S1: because so often precious saints who keep journals end up 223 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,280 S1: using their journals to bless others when God calls them 224 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,880 S1: to write a book about it. So journaling is advantageous 225 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,040 S1: for a myriad of reasons. But you talk about the 226 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:02,560 S1: fact that he said, I'm not going to win you 227 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:04,360 S1: back with wine and roses. I mean, he makes this 228 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,240 S1: declarative statement. So you knew that the love was totally 229 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,559 S1: not there, that he had committed to this other woman 230 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,160 S1: and there wasn't any reparation. That had to be the 231 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,679 S1: other thing. At what point in this journey do you say, 232 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:16,400 S1: I have to let go of the hope that at 233 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:17,800 S1: some point where I have to say, this is the 234 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,240 S1: new normal and this isn't going to be rectified as 235 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:21,800 S1: much as I want to, as much as I'll pray 236 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,320 S1: and fast. If he doesn't change and look well to 237 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,839 S1: the ways of his own household, it's not going to happen. 238 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:28,760 S1: How do you let go? 239 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,760 S6: That's a great question because it took me so long 240 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,200 S6: to let go, because I realized I was clinging to 241 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,320 S6: an outcome, and the only outcome I thought was going 242 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:45,640 S6: to glorify God and be accepted in the church was reconciliation. 243 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,240 S6: So that was all I prayed for, all I wanted 244 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:53,040 S6: anybody to pray for. I mean, it was what I dreamt, slept, prayed. 245 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,679 S6: And then, you know, when he was basically saying like, 246 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,480 S6: I will maybe consider coming back, which was kind of 247 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,440 S6: interesting because it's the right thing. But I, you know, 248 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,560 S6: I don't love you. And so just kind of dealing 249 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,880 S6: with all of that, but actually being willing to hang 250 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,680 S6: on for that even, and just saying, God, I need 251 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:19,240 S6: you to make it absolutely clear. And I kept hanging 252 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,320 S6: on until I remember one day I was actually reading 253 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:27,000 S6: Jeremiah 29. And you know, there's, I know the plans 254 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,439 S6: I have for you. And I was focusing on that. 255 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,520 S6: And I went back to the beginning where God tells 256 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:37,360 S6: the people in exile, like, live where you are, plant vineyards, 257 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,280 S6: like you've got to live where you are. And I 258 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,320 S6: realized I was living for the future. What I was 259 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,200 S6: hoping was going to happen. And God was like, this 260 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,600 S6: is where you are. You need to let down roots 261 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,160 S6: where you are. And so that meant not looking to 262 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,560 S6: an outcome, but just looking to God. And so as 263 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,240 S6: it unfolded and he was wanting to stay with her, 264 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,640 S6: I just had to kind of let that go. He 265 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,360 S6: ended up eventually filing for divorce and remarrying very soon 266 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,200 S6: after that. But I had to let him go mentally 267 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,600 S6: before that to say, okay, this may not be the 268 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,240 S6: outcome and I am going to trust God through it. 269 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:18,320 S7: Oh, wow. 270 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,280 S1: And that takes a volitional act, does it not, to 271 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,400 S1: let go and let God, as the saying goes, to 272 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,160 S1: really press into him and to trust him. You say 273 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,199 S1: two things about divorce that again, for people who've been divorced, 274 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,520 S1: they're nodding their heads in agreement as you're talking. For 275 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,160 S1: those who haven't been, they don't have a point of reference. 276 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,280 S1: And my goal is to help them to better understand you. Right. 277 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,480 S1: And I think you're so spot on that divorce is 278 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,600 S1: like a death. Explain why. 279 00:13:43,970 --> 00:13:47,370 S6: Yeah. Divorce is is so much like a death in 280 00:13:47,370 --> 00:13:50,650 S6: that the person is no longer there. Like you're not 281 00:13:50,650 --> 00:13:54,490 S6: parenting with somebody else. There's nobody in your house. You 282 00:13:54,610 --> 00:13:57,770 S6: don't often have contact with them except when you do. 283 00:13:57,850 --> 00:14:02,490 S6: It's often not civil. So it's, you know, argumentative. It's 284 00:14:02,809 --> 00:14:06,490 S6: arguing over so many things. And so it feels like 285 00:14:06,490 --> 00:14:10,690 S6: a death. But the difference to me was, you know, 286 00:14:10,730 --> 00:14:14,450 S6: there's no casseroles. Nothing's on the prayer chain. People aren't 287 00:14:14,450 --> 00:14:18,170 S6: sending you cards. You know, it's hard. And I'm not 288 00:14:18,170 --> 00:14:21,330 S6: saying it's harder than a death because going through the 289 00:14:21,330 --> 00:14:24,490 S6: death of a spouse is a spouse is devastating. Um, 290 00:14:24,530 --> 00:14:27,490 S6: so not trying to say that, but at the same time, 291 00:14:27,490 --> 00:14:31,130 S6: there is closure there. There's pictures on the walls. There's 292 00:14:31,130 --> 00:14:33,890 S6: people telling you what they loved about your spouse. There's 293 00:14:33,930 --> 00:14:39,850 S6: shared memories with a family and that just dies. Like 294 00:14:39,850 --> 00:14:42,770 S6: nobody tells you about fun things they did with their family. 295 00:14:42,810 --> 00:14:45,650 S6: Your kids don't. You don't sit around and reminisce about 296 00:14:45,650 --> 00:14:51,770 S6: family vacations. The pictures come down and it feels like 297 00:14:52,090 --> 00:14:55,490 S6: the person didn't exist in some ways in terms of 298 00:14:55,490 --> 00:14:59,570 S6: talking about them. So it feels like a death, but 299 00:14:59,570 --> 00:15:05,210 S6: there's no funeral. Oh, and there's. Yeah. Less comfort. 300 00:15:05,250 --> 00:15:08,610 S1: Exactly. And I loved I was riveted in this section. 301 00:15:08,610 --> 00:15:11,010 S1: When you write about the fact that you just espoused this, 302 00:15:11,010 --> 00:15:14,330 S1: that when someone loses their spouse, the family of faith 303 00:15:14,330 --> 00:15:17,130 S1: encircles you. And it's the cards, the flowers, the meals, 304 00:15:17,130 --> 00:15:20,650 S1: the offering of service, your divorce left without a spouse, 305 00:15:20,650 --> 00:15:23,890 S1: the same outcome in many ways as a death. Only 306 00:15:23,890 --> 00:15:26,050 S1: there's no burial, but there's a burial of the heart. 307 00:15:26,050 --> 00:15:29,370 S1: There's a burial of the of the relationship. So there's 308 00:15:29,370 --> 00:15:31,690 S1: a kind of burial that takes place, but there's not 309 00:15:31,690 --> 00:15:34,970 S1: the support. You said something else that was particularly compelling 310 00:15:34,970 --> 00:15:37,490 S1: for me when I read it. You said after my divorce, 311 00:15:37,490 --> 00:15:41,010 S1: I didn't just grieve my marriage. I grieved the faith 312 00:15:41,010 --> 00:15:44,850 S1: I thought I had. This is so important. People don't 313 00:15:44,850 --> 00:15:48,010 S1: understand that when something like this happens, very often the 314 00:15:48,010 --> 00:15:52,770 S1: first response is yes, on the horizontal plane. My interpersonal relationship, 315 00:15:52,810 --> 00:15:55,770 S1: me and my spouse, that's radically changed forever. But it 316 00:15:55,770 --> 00:15:59,890 S1: has a profound impact on my vertical relationship with my God. 317 00:15:59,930 --> 00:16:01,890 S1: Talk to me about that and why it calls into 318 00:16:01,890 --> 00:16:04,690 S1: account what you understood to be the character of God 319 00:16:04,690 --> 00:16:07,010 S1: and how you thought God would see what happened. 320 00:16:07,690 --> 00:16:11,450 S6: Yeah, well, I had always thought if you do the 321 00:16:11,450 --> 00:16:15,450 S6: right thing on some level, not the prosperity gospel. Exactly. 322 00:16:15,450 --> 00:16:17,170 S6: But you know, if you do the right thing, God 323 00:16:17,170 --> 00:16:21,050 S6: is going to, you know, give you a good marriage. 324 00:16:21,050 --> 00:16:25,850 S6: And so I, and I really do believe in submission and, 325 00:16:26,050 --> 00:16:28,850 S6: and honoring your husband. So I felt like I did that. 326 00:16:28,850 --> 00:16:32,170 S6: I even talked about submission and, you know, teaching. So 327 00:16:32,170 --> 00:16:36,570 S6: I really did not think this could happen. And at 328 00:16:36,570 --> 00:16:39,740 S6: first I thought, God, what have I done? And do 329 00:16:39,740 --> 00:16:42,700 S6: you hate me? I remember screaming that actually in my 330 00:16:42,700 --> 00:16:46,900 S6: pastor's house like this just didn't make sense to me 331 00:16:46,900 --> 00:16:51,620 S6: because I had tried to be faithful and I recognized 332 00:16:51,620 --> 00:16:55,180 S6: my faith for some time, was a little more transactional 333 00:16:55,180 --> 00:16:58,620 S6: than I wanted it to be, or that I, I 334 00:16:58,780 --> 00:17:02,460 S6: would have admitted that it was, but it really was. 335 00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:06,620 S6: And so that was kind of a turning point for me, 336 00:17:06,619 --> 00:17:09,140 S6: recognizing my faith could not be in that. It had 337 00:17:09,140 --> 00:17:11,540 S6: to be in something different. MM. 338 00:17:11,740 --> 00:17:14,540 S1: Such a great and insightful point. The book is called 339 00:17:14,540 --> 00:17:17,580 S1: This Was Never the Plan. Beneath the prisoner is our guest. 340 00:17:17,580 --> 00:17:20,300 S1: She writes about her experience, and she does so so 341 00:17:20,300 --> 00:17:22,700 S1: that she can turn around and comfort those who know 342 00:17:22,700 --> 00:17:25,260 S1: this wounding as well. She also does it, I think, 343 00:17:25,580 --> 00:17:27,700 S1: for people who don't have a point of reference, but 344 00:17:27,700 --> 00:17:29,939 S1: will understand the role that our family of faith, the 345 00:17:29,940 --> 00:17:33,419 S1: community the church plays in loving and supporting someone for 346 00:17:33,420 --> 00:17:35,379 S1: whom this has happened. Stay with us. There's more to 347 00:17:35,420 --> 00:17:55,260 S1: this conversation. This was never the plan. That's the brand 348 00:17:55,260 --> 00:17:57,820 S1: new book that Vanita Reisner has written that tells the 349 00:17:57,820 --> 00:18:00,540 S1: story of her divorce, walks us through it so we 350 00:18:00,540 --> 00:18:04,060 S1: can better understand, we can create sympathetic hearts that are 351 00:18:04,060 --> 00:18:07,060 S1: like Jesus. And not only that, but it's an encouragement 352 00:18:07,060 --> 00:18:09,260 S1: for those who have been divorced to understand that the 353 00:18:09,260 --> 00:18:11,860 S1: feelings that you've gone through, the valleys you've walked through, 354 00:18:11,900 --> 00:18:14,060 S1: you're not alone by any stretch of the imagination. And 355 00:18:14,060 --> 00:18:16,619 S1: what Vanita does so beautifully is help you learn how 356 00:18:16,619 --> 00:18:18,179 S1: to press into the Lord in the midst of all 357 00:18:18,180 --> 00:18:20,580 S1: of this. That's what the subtitle says it all walking 358 00:18:20,580 --> 00:18:23,699 S1: with God through the heartache of divorce. He doesn't leave you. 359 00:18:23,740 --> 00:18:26,780 S1: He doesn't forsake you, even when suddenly you find that 360 00:18:26,820 --> 00:18:29,020 S1: D word in your life. And it was not something 361 00:18:29,020 --> 00:18:32,340 S1: you ever counted on. So you talk about God's tenderness 362 00:18:32,340 --> 00:18:33,900 S1: in the midst of all of this, and you talk 363 00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:36,300 S1: just before the break about saying, my faith has to 364 00:18:36,300 --> 00:18:38,260 S1: be beyond this. How did you get to the point 365 00:18:38,260 --> 00:18:40,459 S1: where you realized that God wasn't mad at you? To 366 00:18:40,460 --> 00:18:42,580 S1: put it very simply, God wasn't mad at you because 367 00:18:42,580 --> 00:18:45,180 S1: your husband chose to walk out of his life and 368 00:18:45,180 --> 00:18:47,980 S1: step into a life that was sinful before he married 369 00:18:47,980 --> 00:18:49,340 S1: this other woman, quite frankly. 370 00:18:50,020 --> 00:18:55,419 S6: Yeah. I really discovered that by crying out to God, 371 00:18:55,420 --> 00:18:58,060 S6: like I would open up the Bible and feel like 372 00:18:58,060 --> 00:19:01,380 S6: I had nothing in. And I used to, you know, 373 00:19:01,420 --> 00:19:06,020 S6: pray Psalm one 1925, my soul clings to the dust. 374 00:19:06,060 --> 00:19:10,619 S6: Revive me according to your word. And God's word became 375 00:19:10,619 --> 00:19:13,620 S6: more alive to me than it ever had in my 376 00:19:13,619 --> 00:19:17,140 S6: entire life. Like, I would get up early and I 377 00:19:17,140 --> 00:19:20,780 S6: felt like God was whispering these things like, you are enough. 378 00:19:20,820 --> 00:19:25,420 S6: You're beloved. And I believed them in a different way 379 00:19:25,420 --> 00:19:28,020 S6: than I ever had before, because it was often tied 380 00:19:28,020 --> 00:19:31,460 S6: to what I did, my performance, my being a good mom, 381 00:19:31,460 --> 00:19:33,980 S6: a good wife, and I felt like everything had been 382 00:19:33,980 --> 00:19:37,950 S6: stripped away from for me. And so I really sensed 383 00:19:37,990 --> 00:19:41,870 S6: God's love because he loved me. Not not because I 384 00:19:41,869 --> 00:19:45,030 S6: had done all these horrible things. And therefore we all 385 00:19:45,030 --> 00:19:48,790 S6: actually have done all these horrible things in terms of sin. 386 00:19:48,790 --> 00:19:52,109 S6: But it felt like it wasn't, it didn't have anything 387 00:19:52,109 --> 00:19:54,190 S6: to do with what I had done or what had 388 00:19:54,190 --> 00:19:57,910 S6: been done to me. And, um, that was the most 389 00:19:57,910 --> 00:20:01,950 S6: freeing thing. Like God was telling me you are enough. 390 00:20:02,710 --> 00:20:05,270 S6: And I had for so long felt like it was 391 00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:08,109 S6: there was something wrong with me and I felt like 392 00:20:08,109 --> 00:20:11,630 S6: God was saying, this is not about you. And that 393 00:20:11,630 --> 00:20:15,990 S6: freed me from feeling like I needed to carry this shame. 394 00:20:18,350 --> 00:20:20,750 S1: And like, you needed to carry that shame. That's, I 395 00:20:20,750 --> 00:20:23,910 S1: think so often, and I'm being judicious when I say this, 396 00:20:23,910 --> 00:20:25,950 S1: the world doesn't do it because the world, I think, 397 00:20:26,270 --> 00:20:29,310 S1: is very open and very liberal. The world is doing 398 00:20:29,310 --> 00:20:32,550 S1: exactly what the world does without Christ about embracing divorce. 399 00:20:32,550 --> 00:20:34,750 S1: It's just. In fact, we've even got a phrase in 400 00:20:34,750 --> 00:20:36,950 S1: the secular world where they talk about starter marriages. We'll 401 00:20:36,950 --> 00:20:38,590 S1: try this one out. If it doesn't work, then I'll 402 00:20:38,590 --> 00:20:40,510 S1: find the love of my life. So there's a very 403 00:20:40,550 --> 00:20:42,710 S1: cavalier aspect. And as you write about in the book, 404 00:20:43,070 --> 00:20:46,070 S1: a failure to recognize the covenantal aspect of all of this. 405 00:20:46,109 --> 00:20:50,150 S1: It's why marriage should be treated with such a sacred approach, 406 00:20:50,150 --> 00:20:52,989 S1: this covenant, this promise made before a living God. The 407 00:20:52,990 --> 00:20:55,790 S1: witnesses are just there to say, yes, we can testify 408 00:20:55,910 --> 00:20:57,550 S1: to this covenant that was made in front of a 409 00:20:57,550 --> 00:20:59,750 S1: living God. It isn't about saying yes to the dress 410 00:20:59,790 --> 00:21:02,350 S1: or the color of the bridesmaid's dress. That's where we've 411 00:21:02,350 --> 00:21:05,630 S1: let the world seep into the profundity of the marriage unit. 412 00:21:05,630 --> 00:21:07,389 S1: And I think we've lost our way along the way. 413 00:21:07,630 --> 00:21:11,190 S1: But you're saying that somehow you had to deal, as 414 00:21:11,190 --> 00:21:13,629 S1: I think so many people who have been left because 415 00:21:13,630 --> 00:21:16,830 S1: of divorce, um, have felt the same thing, that somehow 416 00:21:16,830 --> 00:21:20,469 S1: I'm responsible. It's my shame. God's position toward you didn't 417 00:21:20,470 --> 00:21:23,469 S1: change because of what your ex-husband did. You had to 418 00:21:23,470 --> 00:21:26,629 S1: rediscover that he loved you no matter what. How do you. 419 00:21:26,790 --> 00:21:28,310 S1: And there's so many things I want to ask you. 420 00:21:28,350 --> 00:21:30,949 S1: Talk to me about as a mom, this whole business 421 00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:35,070 S1: of single parenting, that is. it's inordinately difficult. It was 422 00:21:35,070 --> 00:21:38,669 S1: never God's perfect plan. It does happen. How do you 423 00:21:38,670 --> 00:21:40,550 S1: take on the role? How do you deal with your 424 00:21:40,590 --> 00:21:43,710 S1: children's grief? Because they've lost a father in many respects 425 00:21:43,710 --> 00:21:44,229 S1: as well. 426 00:21:45,230 --> 00:21:45,550 S7: Oh. 427 00:21:46,510 --> 00:21:49,510 S6: You fall on your face and you pray. I mean, 428 00:21:49,550 --> 00:21:51,869 S6: that's how you take it on. And I mean, literally, 429 00:21:51,869 --> 00:21:54,270 S6: I don't think ever in my life I was on 430 00:21:54,270 --> 00:21:57,909 S6: my face as much praying. Um, and a lot of 431 00:21:57,910 --> 00:22:00,230 S6: it is not putting all of this on your kids. 432 00:22:00,270 --> 00:22:02,909 S6: Like one of my friends advised me because her parents 433 00:22:02,910 --> 00:22:05,910 S6: had been divorced and she said my mom would just 434 00:22:05,910 --> 00:22:09,150 S6: make me her confidante. So I had to make God 435 00:22:09,150 --> 00:22:13,189 S6: my confidante and my friends, um, and recognize I needed 436 00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:16,310 S6: to listen to my kids and be there for them 437 00:22:16,790 --> 00:22:21,150 S6: and recognize their worlds had fallen apart. Because for a while, 438 00:22:21,150 --> 00:22:23,550 S6: I thought, they need to make my life easier because 439 00:22:23,550 --> 00:22:26,830 S6: my life was so hard as it was. And I thought, well, 440 00:22:26,869 --> 00:22:30,190 S6: my kids need to behave just also so I would 441 00:22:30,190 --> 00:22:33,270 S6: look good. Because from the shame of divorce, you feel 442 00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:36,630 S6: like I don't want the shame of kids who are misbehaving. 443 00:22:36,670 --> 00:22:39,230 S6: Like then people are going to wonder what really is 444 00:22:39,230 --> 00:22:40,149 S6: going on with her. 445 00:22:40,190 --> 00:22:41,670 S1: The double whammy. Exactly. 446 00:22:41,710 --> 00:22:44,310 S6: Yeah. So I wanted my kids to look perfect so 447 00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:47,629 S6: people would be like, oh yeah, she was this perfect woman. 448 00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:51,070 S6: And that was pressure that never should have been on them. 449 00:22:51,070 --> 00:22:55,150 S6: I kind of joke that they were my billboards and 450 00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:58,110 S6: I wanted them to make me look good, but they 451 00:22:58,150 --> 00:23:01,870 S6: were not. Those billboards were not looking very good. And 452 00:23:01,869 --> 00:23:05,470 S6: I realized I had to recognize they were people and 453 00:23:05,470 --> 00:23:09,470 S6: not products and not, you know, evidence of my faithfulness 454 00:23:09,470 --> 00:23:12,670 S6: because I was looking for that everywhere. And I had 455 00:23:12,670 --> 00:23:15,750 S6: to slow down and listen to them and get that 456 00:23:15,910 --> 00:23:20,750 S6: their worlds had crashed. And I needed to listen to 457 00:23:20,790 --> 00:23:26,030 S6: what was bothering them versus how they were also bothering me. So. 458 00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:30,840 S1: So it was difficult, right? I mean, there's no easy 459 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,760 S1: way around that because you need to protect you. The 460 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,280 S1: the temptation had to be palpable. It would be for 461 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,719 S1: anyone who suffered what you experienced to be able to 462 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,760 S1: say negative things about your ex because they were worthy 463 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,720 S1: of being said. But at the same token, you realize 464 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,320 S1: that you don't want to say that to your children 465 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,719 S1: as well. Because like it or not, he will always 466 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,480 S1: be their father. So how did you find the balance? 467 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,240 S1: To be able to say what needed to be said, 468 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,320 S1: to comfort them, to recognize the wrong that was done, 469 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,719 S1: but not to create this marked animus that's going to 470 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,040 S1: damage their father child relationship in the future. 471 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,200 S6: Yeah, I had to just take the high road and 472 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,479 S6: I do not regret it, but it was like I 473 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,000 S6: had to sign on my bulletin board. Faith is trusting 474 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,840 S6: God to set the record straight. Oh, and I had 475 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:17,560 S6: to do that. 476 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,800 S1: Wow. I love that to let him set the record straight. 477 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,679 S1: When we come back, talk to me a little bit 478 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,679 S1: about lamenting. You know, we've got this book in the 479 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:29,040 S1: Old Testament called Lamentations. It sounds oh so Old Testament, Testimony. 480 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,159 S1: But there is a reason and a purpose for lamenting, 481 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,440 S1: particularly when there's loss. I'd love to get your take 482 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,600 S1: on that. The book is called This Was Never the 483 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,240 S1: Plan Walking with God Through the Heartache of Divorce. Juanita 484 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,639 S1: Reisner is our guest and the author. More after this. 485 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,720 S1: If what you hear on in the market with Janet 486 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,200 S1: partial encourages you, enlightens you, engages you, and equips you, 487 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,560 S1: I want to ask you to become a partial partner today. 488 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,159 S1: This program depends on the faithful and ongoing support of 489 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,480 S1: listeners just like you. By supporting this program on a regular, 490 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,200 S1: ongoing monthly basis, you'll receive several benefits that only my 491 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:17,159 S1: partners receive. So please call today 877 Janet 58 or 492 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:23,440 S1: go online to In the Market with Janet Partial. We're 493 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,760 S1: talking about divorce. It's a tough subject, particularly in the church, 494 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,680 S1: but it happens. And when it does, what are we, 495 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,680 S1: the family of faith, doing to surround someone for whom 496 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:37,600 S1: this has happened? And Vinita Risner is so stereotypical of 497 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,480 S1: the person who's been divorced from, didn't initiate the divorce, 498 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,680 S1: didn't want the divorce, didn't see it coming after eight 499 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,400 S1: years of marriage, 18 years of marriage. And yet there 500 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,320 S1: she is, a single mom, stunned, dealing with guilt and 501 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,399 S1: shame and thinking somehow this is a kind of death 502 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,920 S1: without a burial and funeral. And now it calls into 503 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,160 S1: account my faith. And that's a myriad of feelings that 504 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,440 S1: people go through when this happens to them. So she's 505 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,000 S1: written a wonderful book that helps us better understand. It 506 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,520 S1: offers encouragement for those who are dealing with this issue 507 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,919 S1: called this was never the plan. Walking with God through 508 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,720 S1: the heartache of divorce. So just before the break, I 509 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,560 S1: put out a question there that I want to bring 510 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,680 S1: back to us and have you talk about, and that 511 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,800 S1: is Lamentations. You know, it's there. There's only 66 books. 512 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,719 S1: God must have felt it was important, even though he 513 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,919 S1: has one book that really is built on this idea 514 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,930 S1: of weeping, of crying out to God. And yet a 515 00:26:26,970 --> 00:26:29,169 S1: lot of people take a giant step around it and 516 00:26:29,170 --> 00:26:31,090 S1: don't want to get involved in it, because where there's 517 00:26:31,130 --> 00:26:34,210 S1: lamenting their sorrow and pain and thanks, but no thanks. 518 00:26:34,210 --> 00:26:36,690 S1: I didn't sign up for that. Yet you point out 519 00:26:36,690 --> 00:26:39,530 S1: that lamenting is good for us. Explain why. 520 00:26:40,290 --> 00:26:45,250 S6: Yeah, lamenting draws our hearts to God almost like nothing 521 00:26:45,250 --> 00:26:49,490 S6: else can. And it's not something we're taught when we 522 00:26:49,490 --> 00:26:52,649 S6: first come to Christ. I mean, I think we all think, wow, 523 00:26:52,650 --> 00:26:55,690 S6: we need to praise God and adore him. And we do. 524 00:26:56,330 --> 00:27:00,090 S6: But God wants genuine praise. And when life is really hard, 525 00:27:00,090 --> 00:27:04,770 S6: sometimes that's not the first thing off our lips. And 526 00:27:04,770 --> 00:27:09,250 S6: I used to think complaining was grumbling and, um, that, that, 527 00:27:09,290 --> 00:27:14,010 S6: you know, was really horrible. But lamenting is different in 528 00:27:14,050 --> 00:27:19,170 S6: that complaining and grumbling are talking about God and lamenting 529 00:27:19,290 --> 00:27:23,770 S6: is talking to God. So it may seem the same. 530 00:27:24,050 --> 00:27:26,409 S6: And you know, when you read the Book of Lamentations, 531 00:27:26,410 --> 00:27:30,810 S6: Jeremiah says some pretty horrific things that you're like, did 532 00:27:30,810 --> 00:27:34,730 S6: he really say that to God? Um, I mean, Lamentations 533 00:27:34,730 --> 00:27:37,650 S6: three might be the hardest passage in all of Scripture, 534 00:27:37,650 --> 00:27:43,129 S6: but there is a turn where Jeremiah pours out everything 535 00:27:43,130 --> 00:27:45,770 S6: and then he says, but this I call to mind, 536 00:27:45,770 --> 00:27:49,930 S6: and therefore I have hope. The steadfast love of the 537 00:27:50,130 --> 00:27:53,609 S6: Lord never ceases. His mercies never come to an end. 538 00:27:53,650 --> 00:27:58,209 S6: And so that's the turn that lament gives us. Like 539 00:27:58,210 --> 00:28:01,450 S6: we pour out everything hard, everything we feel. And I 540 00:28:01,450 --> 00:28:04,570 S6: did that verbally in my journals, which I have so 541 00:28:04,570 --> 00:28:08,730 S6: many of them from that time. And then God turns 542 00:28:08,730 --> 00:28:12,690 S6: my heart. So I'm not manufacturing this. God, you are good. 543 00:28:13,090 --> 00:28:17,210 S6: It just comes out from this having God listen to 544 00:28:17,250 --> 00:28:21,010 S6: me and draw near to me and show me I 545 00:28:21,170 --> 00:28:25,770 S6: love you. I, I, my heart is breaking, you know. 546 00:28:25,810 --> 00:28:30,810 S6: God collects our tears. God is for us. And recognizing 547 00:28:30,810 --> 00:28:34,730 S6: all that happens when we lament and we bring our 548 00:28:34,770 --> 00:28:39,130 S6: honest selves to God. So I am such a big 549 00:28:39,130 --> 00:28:43,330 S6: proponent of lamenting because it. It really connects us to 550 00:28:43,370 --> 00:28:47,890 S6: the heart of God in ways that I don't think just, 551 00:28:47,930 --> 00:28:50,930 S6: you know, saying a rote prayer can do. 552 00:28:51,370 --> 00:28:51,770 S7: MM. 553 00:28:52,210 --> 00:28:54,010 S1: And you say that it takes trust for us to 554 00:28:54,010 --> 00:28:56,770 S1: be able to do that. So I appreciate that. And, 555 00:28:56,810 --> 00:28:59,330 S1: you know, sometimes the lamenting never stops. I mean, there 556 00:28:59,330 --> 00:29:01,209 S1: will always be a part of you. And thanks be 557 00:29:01,210 --> 00:29:04,210 S1: to God that you have remarried, but there's a part 558 00:29:04,210 --> 00:29:07,210 S1: of you that knows that that loss is there. For example, 559 00:29:07,450 --> 00:29:09,930 S1: you were not a stranger to loss. You got polio 560 00:29:09,930 --> 00:29:13,410 S1: as a child, then you got post-polio syndrome as an adult, 561 00:29:13,410 --> 00:29:15,690 S1: and you ended up having to bury a two month 562 00:29:15,690 --> 00:29:18,730 S1: old son. Did all of those things. Do you think 563 00:29:18,770 --> 00:29:21,290 S1: prepare you in some way, shape or form for the 564 00:29:21,290 --> 00:29:22,940 S1: loss of a husband as well? 565 00:29:24,460 --> 00:29:28,940 S6: Yes and no. Yes they did, because I saw that 566 00:29:28,940 --> 00:29:34,020 S6: God was faithful even when though the worst happened. Like 567 00:29:34,060 --> 00:29:37,260 S6: I recognized that God would walk me through that. So 568 00:29:37,260 --> 00:29:40,380 S6: I was no stranger to suffering and found that it 569 00:29:40,420 --> 00:29:44,820 S6: deepened my faith. But it didn't prepare me for divorce 570 00:29:44,820 --> 00:29:48,460 S6: because that felt so personal. Like there's so much tied 571 00:29:48,460 --> 00:29:52,060 S6: up in that. And as we talked about before, shame 572 00:29:52,420 --> 00:29:56,540 S6: that it felt like, wow, this doesn't happen to the godly. Like, 573 00:29:56,580 --> 00:29:59,180 S6: whereas I thought, you know, people, you look at Joni 574 00:29:59,220 --> 00:30:04,500 S6: Eareckson Tada, like really amazing people go through horrific physical suffering. 575 00:30:04,540 --> 00:30:09,380 S6: You know, people bury children. But divorce didn't feel like 576 00:30:09,380 --> 00:30:11,979 S6: it could have been part of God's plan for me 577 00:30:12,020 --> 00:30:15,020 S6: at all, whereas I could see those things as, wow, 578 00:30:15,060 --> 00:30:17,780 S6: God's going to use this. But this was a different 579 00:30:17,780 --> 00:30:21,300 S6: category for me, and this is what made it that 580 00:30:21,380 --> 00:30:22,220 S6: much harder. 581 00:30:23,620 --> 00:30:25,700 S1: How do you deal with and you write about this 582 00:30:25,740 --> 00:30:28,540 S1: in the book. So it's a rhetorical question because, you know, 583 00:30:28,540 --> 00:30:30,580 S1: I've read the book, but I want to know what 584 00:30:30,580 --> 00:30:33,660 S1: happens when the father of lies starts accusing you. And 585 00:30:33,660 --> 00:30:37,740 S1: because of what happened because of another person's wrong actions, 586 00:30:38,020 --> 00:30:41,140 S1: it makes you start to call into account a series 587 00:30:41,140 --> 00:30:45,060 S1: of lies that you're not good enough, you weren't pretty enough. 588 00:30:45,060 --> 00:30:47,220 S1: You didn't provide enough. I mean, the list goes on 589 00:30:47,220 --> 00:30:50,060 S1: and on and on. You talk about setting your mind 590 00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:52,900 S1: on things above and taking every thought captive. How do 591 00:30:52,900 --> 00:30:55,940 S1: you deal with the spiritual warfare aspect that necessarily comes 592 00:30:55,940 --> 00:30:57,260 S1: along in a battle like this? 593 00:30:58,780 --> 00:31:01,460 S6: You really need to cry out to God every day 594 00:31:01,460 --> 00:31:04,460 S6: and read your Bible, and you know, you may not 595 00:31:04,460 --> 00:31:06,700 S6: feel like it. I mean, going through divorce is so 596 00:31:06,700 --> 00:31:09,060 S6: hard sometimes you just don't want to open it. But 597 00:31:09,060 --> 00:31:12,980 S6: you do need to remind yourself of truth of who 598 00:31:12,980 --> 00:31:17,700 S6: God is and recognize these lies. I mean, sometimes you 599 00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:20,660 S6: just have to read a list and say, okay, the 600 00:31:20,660 --> 00:31:22,700 S6: light is that I could have fixed this, that I'm 601 00:31:22,740 --> 00:31:26,060 S6: not enough, that somehow this is a fault with me 602 00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:29,980 S6: and say, okay, I'm going to set my mind on 603 00:31:29,980 --> 00:31:34,100 S6: what truth is. And, um, not that any of us 604 00:31:34,100 --> 00:31:37,140 S6: are perfect in our marriages. And so that's the one 605 00:31:37,140 --> 00:31:39,420 S6: thing I don't want people to say, well, you know, I, 606 00:31:39,460 --> 00:31:43,060 S6: I wasn't, you know, I wasn't a great wife in 607 00:31:43,060 --> 00:31:45,580 S6: that maybe I complained or did those things. And we 608 00:31:45,580 --> 00:31:48,580 S6: all have regrets in our marriage. You know, I can 609 00:31:48,620 --> 00:31:50,660 S6: think of a million things I could have done differently, 610 00:31:50,660 --> 00:31:54,580 S6: but they weren't the things that led to our divorce. 611 00:31:55,340 --> 00:31:59,219 S6: So I needed to remind myself of those truths like, yes, 612 00:31:59,220 --> 00:32:03,020 S6: I was not perfect, but what I my role in 613 00:32:03,020 --> 00:32:07,780 S6: what happened was not the initiator. I was not the initiator. 614 00:32:07,780 --> 00:32:10,980 S6: I didn't look somewhere else and I wanted to work 615 00:32:10,980 --> 00:32:13,220 S6: on it. I was willing to forgive if there was 616 00:32:13,220 --> 00:32:16,780 S6: repentance and sort of just looking at my heart. Because 617 00:32:16,780 --> 00:32:19,190 S6: when those lies come at you, they come out in 618 00:32:19,190 --> 00:32:21,750 S6: all kinds of different ways and you have to like, 619 00:32:21,790 --> 00:32:25,110 S6: remember the truth right out the truth. Um, talk to 620 00:32:25,150 --> 00:32:29,190 S6: friends sometimes because we can't even see the lies. But 621 00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:32,110 S6: when we uncover them and see God's truth, that's like 622 00:32:32,150 --> 00:32:36,750 S6: this kiss the ground freedom of wow, this is, this 623 00:32:36,750 --> 00:32:38,550 S6: is truth that I need to live by. 624 00:32:38,790 --> 00:32:39,630 S7: I love that. 625 00:32:39,870 --> 00:32:42,190 S1: You know, because in fact, let me back up. I, 626 00:32:42,190 --> 00:32:44,630 S1: I love the fact that sociologists will tell us that 627 00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:46,030 S1: if you walked into a room and there was a 628 00:32:46,030 --> 00:32:48,870 S1: party and you said to a man in conversations that 629 00:32:48,870 --> 00:32:51,670 S1: often take place at events like this. So what do 630 00:32:51,670 --> 00:32:53,950 S1: you do? And he'll come back with an answer of 631 00:32:53,950 --> 00:32:56,430 S1: his job. If you ask the same question of a woman, 632 00:32:56,430 --> 00:32:59,510 S1: she'll say, well, I'm married or I'm a mother or 633 00:32:59,510 --> 00:33:01,830 S1: and it's a relational response on the woman's part. It's 634 00:33:01,830 --> 00:33:05,790 S1: a vocational response on the man's part. When your identity 635 00:33:05,830 --> 00:33:08,950 S1: for 18 years was tied up into being, I. Mrs.. 636 00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:11,790 S1: Fill in the blank and that's not there anymore. You 637 00:33:11,790 --> 00:33:14,470 S1: have to radically redefine who you are. And I laughed 638 00:33:14,470 --> 00:33:17,270 S1: out loud when you talked about going to the doctor 639 00:33:17,270 --> 00:33:18,990 S1: and having to fill out a form and you had 640 00:33:18,990 --> 00:33:22,230 S1: to check the box. Mr. and Mrs. Mary divorced, whatever, 641 00:33:22,350 --> 00:33:24,870 S1: and you had to check the box. Divorce and the 642 00:33:24,870 --> 00:33:28,790 S1: doctor's poring over your chart. And you think somehow he's 643 00:33:28,790 --> 00:33:31,710 S1: judging why you ended up divorced? And whose fault was it? 644 00:33:31,710 --> 00:33:33,950 S1: And you blurt out, I didn't want my marriage to end. 645 00:33:33,950 --> 00:33:36,110 S1: And then you realize, he said, I'm just trying to 646 00:33:36,110 --> 00:33:38,989 S1: treat you for the symptoms you've got today, which I 647 00:33:38,990 --> 00:33:41,630 S1: thought was wonderful. But it really goes to the core 648 00:33:41,630 --> 00:33:44,110 S1: of a feeling like you have to give a defense 649 00:33:44,190 --> 00:33:46,910 S1: wasn't I didn't want this wasn't me. But that goes 650 00:33:46,910 --> 00:33:49,550 S1: to the deeper core question of who am I now? 651 00:33:49,670 --> 00:33:50,910 S1: How did you work that through? 652 00:33:52,430 --> 00:33:55,510 S6: Yeah, it was that was a real journey, figuring out 653 00:33:55,510 --> 00:33:59,310 S6: who I was because I was even homeschooling when, um, 654 00:33:59,350 --> 00:34:04,470 S6: Yasmine left. So I was like, my identity was this little. 655 00:34:04,470 --> 00:34:06,670 S6: And I was teaching women's Bible study, like it was 656 00:34:06,670 --> 00:34:10,310 S6: all of these things. And then who am I? I'm not, 657 00:34:10,350 --> 00:34:12,550 S6: I'm not. I mean, I did homeschool for a little 658 00:34:12,590 --> 00:34:15,950 S6: bit after that, but, you know, I ended up putting 659 00:34:15,950 --> 00:34:19,670 S6: my kids in school. But. So I wasn't a homeschool mom. 660 00:34:19,870 --> 00:34:23,870 S6: I wasn't a wife. I wasn't so many things. And 661 00:34:23,870 --> 00:34:26,670 S6: even people questioned whether I should be teaching Bible study 662 00:34:26,670 --> 00:34:30,469 S6: after my husband left because they thought, um, maybe I 663 00:34:30,469 --> 00:34:33,390 S6: had a hidden life. Because that's what people assume. Like 664 00:34:33,430 --> 00:34:37,270 S6: they assume because I couldn't tell all the details. I 665 00:34:37,270 --> 00:34:40,270 S6: had two kids, fifth and eighth grade. Like I'm not 666 00:34:40,270 --> 00:34:43,509 S6: going to share all the details. My, my husband is 667 00:34:43,550 --> 00:34:46,950 S6: actually living with somebody else at the time. So he, 668 00:34:46,989 --> 00:34:49,509 S6: I didn't know that he had a double life moved out, 669 00:34:49,510 --> 00:34:53,230 S6: but he had been living with her also when he 670 00:34:53,230 --> 00:34:56,390 S6: was living with us. So I couldn't tell everybody that 671 00:34:56,390 --> 00:34:59,350 S6: at the time. And so that was this pain of 672 00:34:59,390 --> 00:35:02,430 S6: they didn't know and said they were judging all of 673 00:35:02,430 --> 00:35:06,670 S6: those things too. So I lost, you know, being a mom, 674 00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:10,790 S6: a wife, and then even sort of a respected person 675 00:35:10,790 --> 00:35:14,710 S6: in our church. And I dealt with that by first 676 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,440 S6: lamenting and just writing all the things that I lost, 677 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,560 S6: and just asking God to help me see, put my 678 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,719 S6: identity in something else, which isn't Jesus like. That's where 679 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,600 S6: our hope is. That's where our identity is. But my 680 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,840 S6: identity was so tied up in all of those other roles. Um, and, 681 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:38,160 S6: and it's easy to slip back into that even now. Um, 682 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,440 S6: because I think it's more, it's easier to see ourselves 683 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,480 S6: as identified by what we do or who we are 684 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,400 S6: in relation to people than just, I am a child 685 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:49,040 S6: of God. 686 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,200 S1: Yeah, absolutely. Wow. So many important lessons in what you 687 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,879 S1: went through and what you're sharing with us. How did 688 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,160 S1: you handle the music's playing? Let me ask the question. 689 00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:59,600 S1: I'll give you a chance to ponder, but I'll take 690 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,480 S1: the answer on the other side of the break. How 691 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,160 S1: did you handle the naysayers? You know, the sand bullets 692 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,719 S1: and Tobias, who made their criticisms well known or offered 693 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,239 S1: their opinion? Whether you wanted it or not, I want 694 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,160 S1: to know how you handled that. And then there's this 695 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,200 S1: whole idea of, okay, now do I date, do I remarry? 696 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,520 S1: What does the Bible say about that? What's the church 697 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,479 S1: culture going to say about that? How do I honor 698 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,640 S1: Christ in the middle of all of this? So there's 699 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,319 S1: a lot more I'm going to squeeze it into this 700 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,160 S1: last segment. May this conversation be an encouragement to you 701 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,040 S1: if this is your story. This was never the plan. 702 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,120 S1: Walking with God through the heartache of divorce. If that's 703 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,360 S1: where you are. Mid journey. Post journey. Just starting that journey. 704 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,280 S1: Oh you're not listening by accident. This book was designed 705 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,279 S1: for you and may you be encouraged and find your 706 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,920 S1: hope in him who will never leave you or forsake 707 00:36:45,960 --> 00:37:09,200 S1: you back after this. This was never the plan. Walking 708 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,239 S1: with God through the heartache of divorce. That's the new 709 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,319 S1: book by Benita Rendel Risner. It is her story, but 710 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,920 S1: it really is a story that can apply to so 711 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,640 S1: many people for whom this is their experience as well. 712 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,279 S1: After 18 years of marriage has been walked out. I 713 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,600 S1: don't love you anymore. Living a double life starts living 714 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,680 S1: with a woman while he's married to Vanitha and then 715 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,160 S1: goes on to marry this woman. Well, life obviously goes 716 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,279 S1: on for Vanitha, and now that he's definitely out, there 717 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,600 S1: is no reconciliation. He has abandoned you in every. So 718 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,240 S1: every T is crossed, every I is dotted biblically. But 719 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,799 S1: now you have to start thinking, okay, now I get 720 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,399 S1: into the second part of this rather touchy question in 721 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,640 S1: the church, which is Lord, if you were to bring 722 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,360 S1: someone into my life, is it appropriate for me to remarry? 723 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,160 S1: How did you work that through in your own heart? 724 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,280 S6: Oh, that's a great question, Janet. There were several things. One, 725 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,480 S6: I remember just starting to talk to my counselor about 726 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,800 S6: it and just, you know, our pastor, like, what do 727 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,600 S6: you think about this? And I think I spent, you know, 728 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,330 S6: a year just talking to my counselor about it. And 729 00:38:12,810 --> 00:38:16,450 S6: just her biggest question is like, why? Why would you 730 00:38:16,450 --> 00:38:18,530 S6: want to date and why do you want to remarry? 731 00:38:18,570 --> 00:38:22,170 S6: And she had said to me, if you feel like 732 00:38:22,210 --> 00:38:25,529 S6: you need to remarry, like that is the only plan 733 00:38:25,770 --> 00:38:29,130 S6: that you can imagine having a good future with like 734 00:38:29,170 --> 00:38:32,770 S6: a husband, then you're not ready to remarry because you're 735 00:38:32,770 --> 00:38:35,530 S6: going to you're going to date and marry the first 736 00:38:35,530 --> 00:38:37,810 S6: guy who fits the bill. And she's like, I mean, 737 00:38:37,850 --> 00:38:41,529 S6: like breathing. And I think that was probably true. You know, 738 00:38:41,570 --> 00:38:44,049 S6: when you're when you're raw and you're like, I just, 739 00:38:44,050 --> 00:38:46,009 S6: I just want to be in another relationship. I want 740 00:38:46,050 --> 00:38:51,650 S6: to be loved. I loved being married until, until and 741 00:38:51,850 --> 00:38:55,930 S6: just thinking, okay, I, um, I just want to do this, 742 00:38:55,930 --> 00:38:58,410 S6: she said, I have seen so many people make a 743 00:38:58,410 --> 00:39:01,850 S6: mistake in that. If that is your goal, just you 744 00:39:01,850 --> 00:39:04,770 S6: need to step away from that. Um, and then talk 745 00:39:04,770 --> 00:39:09,049 S6: to our pastor about just biblically because there is, you know, 746 00:39:09,090 --> 00:39:11,689 S6: there is some controversy in the church, and I think 747 00:39:11,690 --> 00:39:15,890 S6: people who love, love the Lord and really hold to 748 00:39:15,930 --> 00:39:19,609 S6: Scripture come out on both sides of this issue. I mean, 749 00:39:19,650 --> 00:39:23,690 S6: some people feel like remarriage when your spouse is living, 750 00:39:23,690 --> 00:39:26,970 S6: no matter why you got divorced, is wrong. And they 751 00:39:26,969 --> 00:39:30,730 S6: base that on scripture. But then other people look at 752 00:39:30,770 --> 00:39:35,930 S6: passages like Matthew 19 and first Corinthians seven, where Jesus 753 00:39:36,170 --> 00:39:40,169 S6: talks about infidelity being maybe the grounds for, you know, 754 00:39:40,210 --> 00:39:45,930 S6: if maybe remarriage. And, um, Paul talks about, um, first 755 00:39:45,930 --> 00:39:50,450 S6: Corinthians seven, that if your spouse, an unbelieving spouse is abandoned, you. 756 00:39:50,489 --> 00:39:55,370 S6: You know, there's this idea of remarriage. Um, and so it's, 757 00:39:55,570 --> 00:39:58,170 S6: it's not cut and dried. And I, I do respect 758 00:39:58,170 --> 00:40:01,170 S6: people on both sides who think that, but I just 759 00:40:01,170 --> 00:40:05,250 S6: brought it to the Lord, prayed about it a lot. And, um, 760 00:40:05,290 --> 00:40:09,570 S6: just in talking to my pastor and the elders felt 761 00:40:09,570 --> 00:40:13,170 S6: that I was free to remarry because I had biblical 762 00:40:13,210 --> 00:40:15,890 S6: grounds to divorce, but that didn't mean that I needed 763 00:40:15,890 --> 00:40:19,130 S6: to remarry. And so I really wanted to get to 764 00:40:19,170 --> 00:40:22,170 S6: the place where I was like, I am fine, Lord. 765 00:40:22,210 --> 00:40:26,610 S6: Not remarrying. Remarriage does not mean, you know, the promised land. 766 00:40:26,610 --> 00:40:30,529 S6: Like that's what we're all our goal is because singleness 767 00:40:30,570 --> 00:40:33,610 S6: is an amazing thing as well. And God has gifted 768 00:40:33,610 --> 00:40:36,370 S6: people with that. And so I had to get to 769 00:40:36,410 --> 00:40:39,570 S6: the point where I thought, yeah, I don't need to remarry. I'm, 770 00:40:39,690 --> 00:40:44,690 S6: I'm happy with God. And that's, that's really when I 771 00:40:45,330 --> 00:40:46,850 S6: decided to start dating. 772 00:40:47,330 --> 00:40:47,730 S7: Wow. 773 00:40:48,170 --> 00:40:51,330 S1: Was it hard? Was it difficult? I mean, people often 774 00:40:51,330 --> 00:40:54,729 S1: talk about dating when you're 20 years younger than where 775 00:40:54,730 --> 00:40:57,930 S1: you are at that point, 20 years hence, it's like, whoa, 776 00:40:57,969 --> 00:41:00,210 S1: whole new ball game. Do I live on a website? 777 00:41:00,250 --> 00:41:02,770 S1: Do I meet people? As a Christian, there's places where 778 00:41:02,770 --> 00:41:05,010 S1: I don't want to meet people, so I avoid going there. 779 00:41:05,210 --> 00:41:09,500 S1: Church sometimes not a big fertile field. So where do 780 00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:11,020 S1: you just say, Lord, let him show up at my 781 00:41:11,020 --> 00:41:12,540 S1: front door? How does this happen? 782 00:41:12,940 --> 00:41:15,859 S6: Yeah, well, that was the funny thing. So my daughter 783 00:41:15,860 --> 00:41:18,140 S6: was the one who really wanted me. My older daughter, 784 00:41:18,140 --> 00:41:21,140 S6: to start dating. And then she was like, you've got to, 785 00:41:21,180 --> 00:41:23,140 S6: you've got to try online. And I was like, there 786 00:41:23,180 --> 00:41:25,739 S6: is no way. I even said, like, you know, there 787 00:41:25,739 --> 00:41:28,580 S6: could be an ax murderer. And she's like, yeah, well, maybe, 788 00:41:28,580 --> 00:41:30,780 S6: but you know, there's ways to make sure this isn't 789 00:41:30,780 --> 00:41:33,819 S6: an axe murderer. And I didn't want to just go 790 00:41:33,820 --> 00:41:37,500 S6: to singles groups, but Christian single group, even because I just, 791 00:41:37,900 --> 00:41:40,140 S6: I felt like that was like a meet and greet. 792 00:41:40,140 --> 00:41:43,020 S6: And I didn't know how I felt about that or 793 00:41:43,060 --> 00:41:45,259 S6: even meeting people at church, even though I would have 794 00:41:45,260 --> 00:41:48,100 S6: been totally open to that. You know, I remember thinking, 795 00:41:48,100 --> 00:41:50,299 S6: am I going to look at every guy's finger like, oh, 796 00:41:50,420 --> 00:41:52,660 S6: are they are they eligible? Like, do they have a 797 00:41:52,660 --> 00:41:54,859 S6: ring on their hand? I was like, that's a little 798 00:41:54,860 --> 00:41:57,900 S6: creepy too, you know? So I was like, okay, Lord, 799 00:41:58,100 --> 00:42:00,180 S6: how am I going to do this? I don't know 800 00:42:00,180 --> 00:42:02,740 S6: anybody single. And for a while I was asking friends 801 00:42:02,739 --> 00:42:05,020 S6: because I thought that would be the best thing. But 802 00:42:05,460 --> 00:42:08,980 S6: my daughter pretty much made me get online, and I 803 00:42:08,980 --> 00:42:13,700 S6: would say that was a not fun experience for the 95% 804 00:42:13,700 --> 00:42:16,900 S6: of the time. But I did meet my husband through 805 00:42:18,180 --> 00:42:21,020 S6: online dating, so it was wonderful in the end. But 806 00:42:21,020 --> 00:42:24,140 S6: there was a lot of, um. Yeah, I share a 807 00:42:24,140 --> 00:42:28,380 S6: lot of pretty funny but wild stories from online dating. 808 00:42:28,420 --> 00:42:32,780 S1: But exactly. Um, it is a roller coaster. That's exactly right. 809 00:42:33,340 --> 00:42:34,140 S7: My goodness. 810 00:42:34,180 --> 00:42:34,580 S6: Yes. 811 00:42:34,940 --> 00:42:36,819 S1: So I had asked you this before, but I want 812 00:42:36,860 --> 00:42:38,900 S1: to go back to it again. There are the naysayers, 813 00:42:38,900 --> 00:42:41,620 S1: people who are only too quick to offer their opinion, 814 00:42:41,620 --> 00:42:44,580 S1: even if it's not asked for. And so I talked 815 00:42:44,580 --> 00:42:48,420 S1: before about that horizontal versus vertical relationships that we have. 816 00:42:48,420 --> 00:42:52,460 S1: We all have those horizontal relationships with our fellow human beings. 817 00:42:52,460 --> 00:42:54,259 S1: But the most important one, and the one that should 818 00:42:54,260 --> 00:42:57,259 S1: define us is that vertical relationship and him. We live 819 00:42:57,260 --> 00:42:59,940 S1: and move and have our being. So when the naysayers 820 00:42:59,940 --> 00:43:02,700 S1: did come, how did you handle that? Because boy, you 821 00:43:02,700 --> 00:43:05,899 S1: talk about fertile field for spiritual attack. Here you are 822 00:43:05,900 --> 00:43:11,100 S1: rebuilding re trusting, lamenting, deciding who you are, whose you are, 823 00:43:11,140 --> 00:43:13,180 S1: how you're going to define yourself. That your fight, your 824 00:43:13,180 --> 00:43:16,259 S1: faith is very much alive. And then along comes a zinger. 825 00:43:16,460 --> 00:43:18,339 S1: When you don't ask for it or expect it. How 826 00:43:18,340 --> 00:43:19,340 S1: do you deal with that? 827 00:43:20,420 --> 00:43:24,620 S6: Well, at first it was crushing for me, actually, and 828 00:43:24,620 --> 00:43:29,060 S6: I say that because I, I struggle with being a pleaser. 829 00:43:29,340 --> 00:43:33,700 S6: And I realized I couldn't, I couldn't make myself look 830 00:43:33,700 --> 00:43:37,180 S6: good to everyone. And I was trying. And then, you know, 831 00:43:37,219 --> 00:43:39,660 S6: as I mentioned before, this faith is trusting God to 832 00:43:39,700 --> 00:43:43,259 S6: set the record straight. Just became this thing that I 833 00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:46,780 S6: clung to like, God, you are going to be my, um, 834 00:43:47,100 --> 00:43:49,899 S6: my advocate and I don't need to do that. So 835 00:43:49,900 --> 00:43:53,540 S6: people may think I did this all wrong and they 836 00:43:53,540 --> 00:43:55,980 S6: may be super critical of me and I need to 837 00:43:56,020 --> 00:43:58,979 S6: let that go. I can't defend myself and I need 838 00:43:58,980 --> 00:44:02,780 S6: to look to God and what he is saying about me. 839 00:44:02,820 --> 00:44:06,629 S6: And that was hard, but it was, um, it was 840 00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:08,670 S6: so good for me to do that with the Lord 841 00:44:08,670 --> 00:44:11,670 S6: and to recognize what other people say does not matter. 842 00:44:11,710 --> 00:44:12,590 S7: Yeah. Amen. 843 00:44:13,070 --> 00:44:15,469 S1: Last 30s, what would you say to someone who's going 844 00:44:15,469 --> 00:44:18,150 S1: through a divorce right now? What encouragement can you offer them? 845 00:44:19,390 --> 00:44:22,430 S6: Uh, one, I would say, I'm so sorry. I, um, 846 00:44:22,590 --> 00:44:24,950 S6: but I know that God is going to walk with 847 00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:28,629 S6: you through this, so lean into God. Even though this 848 00:44:28,630 --> 00:44:32,509 S6: was not your plan, God is going to right and 849 00:44:32,510 --> 00:44:36,350 S6: continues to write a good story with your life. So don't, 850 00:44:36,350 --> 00:44:38,910 S6: don't believe the lies that your life is over because 851 00:44:38,910 --> 00:44:41,910 S6: it is not. I love this quote from Elizabeth Elliot. 852 00:44:42,190 --> 00:44:46,550 S6: One thing I am perfectly sure God's story never ends 853 00:44:46,550 --> 00:44:50,030 S6: in ashes. Your life will not end in ashes. 854 00:44:50,350 --> 00:44:52,830 S1: What a note to end on. Juanita, thank you for 855 00:44:52,830 --> 00:44:56,790 S1: such a wonderfully transparent and encouraging conversation. The book again 856 00:44:56,830 --> 00:44:59,109 S1: is called This Was Never the Plan. Check it out. 857 00:44:59,110 --> 00:45:01,390 S1: It's on my website. Thanks, Benita. Thanks, friends. We'll see 858 00:45:01,390 --> 00:45:02,110 S1: you next time.