1 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,000 S1: You've heard his voice, his laugh, his stories for decades. 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,400 S1: You've heard him rightly divide the word of truth. And today, 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,200 S1: at the Radio Backyard fence, we have a conversation with 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,880 S1: the one, the only pastor, author Chuck Swindoll, about the 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:25,360 S1: way Grace has transformed his life. And then a younger 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,040 S1: man is going to join us. You know, Joel Smallbone 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,400 S1: from his music for King and Country and his work 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,240 S1: in films. We're going to talk with him in about 9 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,360 S1: a half an hour. But I want to get right 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,480 S1: to it today. Find us online@kris.org. Thanks to our team. 11 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,000 S1: Ryan's away. Lisa's at the controls. Trish is our producer. 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,920 S1: Josh will answer your calls. We have presented a series 13 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,559 S1: of programs over the last couple of years titled Voices 14 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:54,560 S1: of Wisdom. It's basically saints in winter who share their experience, 15 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:59,360 S1: their ups, their downs, how God has intervened. Chuck Swindoll 16 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,870 S1: has written a memoir that will make you laugh and 17 00:01:01,870 --> 00:01:06,310 S1: cry and see yourself in these pages. It's titled awakened 18 00:01:06,310 --> 00:01:09,990 S1: by Grace. You know him as founder of insight for living, 19 00:01:10,190 --> 00:01:14,550 S1: the 135 books he's written, founding pastor of Stonebriar Community 20 00:01:14,550 --> 00:01:17,270 S1: Church in Frisco, Texas. That's all I'm going to tell 21 00:01:17,270 --> 00:01:20,950 S1: you about him because you know him, Doctor Swindell. How 22 00:01:20,950 --> 00:01:21,950 S1: in the world are you? 23 00:01:22,709 --> 00:01:27,230 S2: I am. If I was any better, I'd be dangerous. Really? Honestly, 24 00:01:27,270 --> 00:01:28,310 S2: I'm doing well. 25 00:01:29,110 --> 00:01:31,270 S1: Uh, I want to talk about how you. I wanted 26 00:01:31,270 --> 00:01:33,229 S1: to talk about how you wrote this book. Because you 27 00:01:33,230 --> 00:01:36,709 S1: didn't write it because of your vision problems. You spoke it. 28 00:01:36,750 --> 00:01:37,790 S1: Tell me about that. 29 00:01:38,750 --> 00:01:41,350 S2: Yeah. It's the first time I've ever done that. Um, 30 00:01:41,790 --> 00:01:44,830 S2: I had a prophet seminary that dictated his books, talked 31 00:01:44,830 --> 00:01:49,390 S2: to Walter, did it while he was shaving in the morning. But, uh, 32 00:01:49,550 --> 00:01:52,990 S2: I couldn't imagine doing that. But now that now that, uh, 33 00:01:53,030 --> 00:01:58,730 S2: glaucoma is taking my sight little by little, uh, not 34 00:01:58,730 --> 00:02:02,890 S2: left with many other options. So I said to Bill Butterworth, 35 00:02:02,890 --> 00:02:06,850 S2: my friend who edited for me, if you will write 36 00:02:06,850 --> 00:02:09,250 S2: it down and take a recording of what I'm saying, 37 00:02:09,250 --> 00:02:13,210 S2: I'll do my best to remember and tell you the truth, 38 00:02:13,210 --> 00:02:16,010 S2: and we'll see if we can put it together. So 39 00:02:16,250 --> 00:02:19,970 S2: it worked beautifully, Chris. It really did better than I 40 00:02:19,970 --> 00:02:20,890 S2: expected to. 41 00:02:21,570 --> 00:02:25,890 S1: It worked beautifully. I can say from this side of 42 00:02:25,889 --> 00:02:30,290 S1: the reader's side for a number of reasons. One of 43 00:02:30,290 --> 00:02:36,130 S1: the chief, one being you did not hold back on 44 00:02:36,169 --> 00:02:39,850 S1: the hard stuff, on the bad stuff, on the. You 45 00:02:39,850 --> 00:02:41,050 S1: know what? Yeah. 46 00:02:41,090 --> 00:02:44,690 S2: You put your finger on the issue of a memoir. 47 00:02:45,490 --> 00:02:51,090 S2: How do you maintain integrity? And by that I mean 48 00:02:51,130 --> 00:02:59,000 S2: verbal honesty and head On the hard stuff. You can't. 49 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:04,160 S2: So what you try to do is, um, be as 50 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:09,560 S2: gracious as you should be, but always as honest as 51 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,720 S2: you must be. And I'm glad you noticed that, Chris. 52 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,960 S2: That's you're very discerning to pick that up. But, you know, 53 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:23,000 S2: every church you serve, uh, has, uh, tough situations and 54 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:27,840 S2: also has some wonderful situations. And, uh, many people you 55 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:32,480 S2: meet are difficult to know. Others are just a dream, 56 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:37,320 S2: you know, they're wonderful. And, uh, when you're a pastor, 57 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:47,440 S2: you're often, oh, let's say the target of their struggles. And, uh, 58 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:52,320 S2: because of that, you often have to take the brunt 59 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,900 S2: of things that you don't deserve. Sometimes you do, but 60 00:03:57,020 --> 00:04:01,540 S2: not always. Anyway, Bill helped me with the. For example, 61 00:04:01,540 --> 00:04:05,900 S2: the chapter on the guy. Remember that one church. I 62 00:04:05,900 --> 00:04:10,940 S2: was facing a bully for those four years and, uh, 63 00:04:10,980 --> 00:04:15,180 S2: he was, he was, uh, very, very difficult. He even 64 00:04:15,220 --> 00:04:19,820 S2: pulled a gun on me. And, um, we decided that 65 00:04:19,820 --> 00:04:22,500 S2: needs to be told, but I don't want to reveal him. 66 00:04:22,500 --> 00:04:25,779 S2: Even though the man is gone by now and out 67 00:04:25,779 --> 00:04:28,740 S2: of the picture, there are people who are still at 68 00:04:28,779 --> 00:04:30,660 S2: that church, and they would be able to figure out 69 00:04:30,660 --> 00:04:33,740 S2: who that is, right? But they did not know what 70 00:04:33,740 --> 00:04:36,420 S2: I was dealing with because I didn't get into it 71 00:04:36,420 --> 00:04:37,380 S2: when I was there. 72 00:04:37,820 --> 00:04:40,779 S1: The also the part about the lake house and the 73 00:04:40,820 --> 00:04:43,260 S1: and the pushback against that and kind of stole a 74 00:04:43,300 --> 00:04:47,140 S1: lot of your joy and your family's joy that was there. 75 00:04:47,180 --> 00:04:47,659 S3: You know. 76 00:04:49,220 --> 00:04:52,420 S2: It's funny, I just I'm just listening to, uh, the 77 00:04:52,420 --> 00:04:57,970 S2: story of Charles Schultz, the, uh, the man who draws peanuts, 78 00:04:58,170 --> 00:05:02,049 S2: the cartoonist. And, uh, he wound up getting a lovely 79 00:05:02,050 --> 00:05:06,130 S2: place and a beautiful. He bought even many, many acres 80 00:05:06,130 --> 00:05:09,890 S2: with it and added an ice rink and almost had 81 00:05:10,170 --> 00:05:15,290 S2: his own little personal Disneyland type setting and got very 82 00:05:15,290 --> 00:05:19,090 S2: little flak. But, uh, when you're in a ministry and 83 00:05:19,089 --> 00:05:23,650 S2: you have something nice, uh, you're going to have someone 84 00:05:24,490 --> 00:05:29,450 S2: pass a rumor around. That is an absolute lie that 85 00:05:29,450 --> 00:05:34,289 S2: says you use ministry money or you, you did that to, uh, 86 00:05:34,810 --> 00:05:39,890 S2: you know, demonstrate wealth and all those silly things. And 87 00:05:40,050 --> 00:05:44,210 S2: none of that was true. None of it was a 88 00:05:44,250 --> 00:05:46,250 S2: part of my thinking, but I had to deal with 89 00:05:46,250 --> 00:05:50,410 S2: it because it came out the headlines in the second 90 00:05:50,410 --> 00:05:55,589 S2: section of a Orange County paper in California and came 91 00:05:55,589 --> 00:05:59,030 S2: out and Moody monthly and came out and. Christianity today 92 00:05:59,070 --> 00:06:04,710 S2: and none of those places contacted me personally before they 93 00:06:04,710 --> 00:06:11,590 S2: revealed what they wrote. Not one. Not one person. That's 94 00:06:11,589 --> 00:06:16,310 S2: the part that bothered me. That to me lacks integrity. 95 00:06:17,190 --> 00:06:21,190 S2: But anyway, it happened and, uh, it pretty well ruined 96 00:06:21,190 --> 00:06:25,870 S2: the place for us. So we sold it. And, uh, we, uh, 97 00:06:26,270 --> 00:06:30,750 S2: we went on with our lives. Not one penny of 98 00:06:30,790 --> 00:06:36,630 S2: ministry money has ever gone to anything that's personally enjoyed 99 00:06:37,190 --> 00:06:42,190 S2: by the Swindoll family. Not one penny. But, you know, 100 00:06:42,270 --> 00:06:44,350 S2: there will be those who don't believe that, or there'll 101 00:06:44,390 --> 00:06:48,110 S2: be those who start a rumor because they're envious, or 102 00:06:48,110 --> 00:06:50,710 S2: because they want to make me look like a a 103 00:06:51,110 --> 00:06:55,820 S2: heel or lacking in integrity. And anyway, you have to 104 00:06:55,820 --> 00:06:56,540 S2: deal with that. 105 00:06:56,940 --> 00:06:59,060 S1: Yeah. And I bring that up. 106 00:06:59,260 --> 00:07:00,740 S2: I did. Yeah. 107 00:07:00,940 --> 00:07:04,020 S1: I bring that up because you, you go to the 108 00:07:04,020 --> 00:07:06,580 S1: hard places, as I said, the other place that you 109 00:07:06,580 --> 00:07:10,780 S1: go to that's really hard is you don't spike the 110 00:07:10,780 --> 00:07:14,940 S1: change in your life, like you just mentioned about your eyesight. 111 00:07:15,100 --> 00:07:18,900 S1: You don't spike the hard stuff, the falls that you 112 00:07:18,900 --> 00:07:23,020 S1: took that that you have to depend on somebody else 113 00:07:23,020 --> 00:07:25,860 S1: for their help. A lot of people would never write 114 00:07:25,860 --> 00:07:26,860 S1: about that. 115 00:07:26,900 --> 00:07:30,180 S2: Right? Right. And when your wife gets dementia, they won't 116 00:07:30,220 --> 00:07:33,700 S2: they won't tell anybody. And, and she's in the final 117 00:07:33,700 --> 00:07:37,620 S2: stage now. And, um, I, I love her with my 118 00:07:37,620 --> 00:07:40,580 S2: whole heart. We've been at this 71 years of marriage 119 00:07:40,620 --> 00:07:44,820 S2: and I couldn't love her more than I do right now, but, uh, 120 00:07:44,860 --> 00:07:49,700 S2: those things happen. And if God's sovereign, when good things happen, 121 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:57,200 S2: Guess what? Ask Jobe. He's also sovereign. When the bottom 122 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,679 S2: drops out of your life, you know. And you bury 123 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,400 S2: your kids. Or you. Or you have to live with 124 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:08,680 S2: heartache and someone gets ill that you love very much, 125 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,440 S2: or people let you down and you have to go on. 126 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:19,040 S2: You can't get bitter. Thankfully, I was resilient enough to, uh, 127 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:24,440 S2: handle the way I was raised because truth be told, 128 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:29,760 S2: I wasn't really wanted. And, uh, I could make a big, 129 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,400 S2: pitiful story of that or simply face it like it was. 130 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,000 S1: Bingo. Okay, I have a bunch of questions. There's a 131 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,040 S1: bunch of questions that have come in over Facebook for you, 132 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,840 S1: Doctor Swindell, and I'm going to ask some questions from people. 133 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,400 S1: The book is awakened by Grace The Life Story of 134 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,910 S1: Chuck Swindoll. And you can hear his voice. That voice. 135 00:08:53,150 --> 00:08:55,709 S1: There's somebody listening right now. And you needed to hear 136 00:08:55,710 --> 00:08:59,829 S1: what he just said. But it comes from this voice. 137 00:08:59,870 --> 00:09:02,429 S1: Where did that voice come from? Where did he get 138 00:09:02,429 --> 00:09:06,390 S1: that voice? We'll talk more with Doctor Swindoll. Straight ahead 139 00:09:06,390 --> 00:09:20,190 S1: on Moody Radio. Doctor Charles Swindoll is joining us here 140 00:09:20,190 --> 00:09:24,150 S1: at the Radio Backyard Fence. His memoir is out. The 141 00:09:24,150 --> 00:09:28,230 S1: book is titled awakened by Grace The Life Story of 142 00:09:28,230 --> 00:09:31,949 S1: Chuck Swindoll. And you can find it as our featured resource, 143 00:09:31,950 --> 00:09:35,750 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. Click through today's information. You can find 144 00:09:35,750 --> 00:09:40,470 S1: out more right there. Chris Fabry live dot ORG. Liz 145 00:09:40,510 --> 00:09:44,670 S1: says this on Facebook and we have so many responses 146 00:09:44,870 --> 00:09:47,670 S1: to those of you who saw, you know, we're having 147 00:09:47,670 --> 00:09:51,370 S1: Chuck Swindoll on. Here's what I would say. Liz says, 148 00:09:51,370 --> 00:09:54,690 S1: thank you. I sat as a visitor many weeks in 149 00:09:54,690 --> 00:09:58,729 S1: my early years in Fullerton, California, as I was navigating 150 00:09:58,730 --> 00:10:01,569 S1: who I wanted to be as a daughter of the King. 151 00:10:02,130 --> 00:10:05,650 S1: You helped me find my calling and stay in that 152 00:10:05,650 --> 00:10:08,850 S1: course the last 30 years. I'm so thankful for the 153 00:10:08,850 --> 00:10:13,610 S1: wisdom and clarity that you have always provided for me. 154 00:10:13,809 --> 00:10:18,570 S1: And part of that is the voice of Chuck Swindoll. 155 00:10:18,570 --> 00:10:21,090 S1: So let me ask you, where in the world did 156 00:10:21,090 --> 00:10:22,449 S1: you get that voice? 157 00:10:22,970 --> 00:10:27,490 S2: Where did I get this voice? Well, I have no idea. 158 00:10:27,530 --> 00:10:32,170 S2: I think I found my voice when I was in Fullerton, California. 159 00:10:32,929 --> 00:10:38,250 S2: By that, I mean I discovered my style. I found 160 00:10:38,250 --> 00:10:42,570 S2: out what I really wanted in a church and how 161 00:10:42,570 --> 00:10:46,290 S2: I would lead the staff and what was important and 162 00:10:46,290 --> 00:10:49,880 S2: what wasn't, what I would let concern me and what 163 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,840 S2: I would let go. I really, I really learned, uh, 164 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,559 S2: who I am. And I, I decided to let it 165 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,520 S2: all out not to try to hide it. Now there's 166 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,720 S2: a limit to what you can do that, you know, 167 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,680 S2: people don't come to church to hear all about the 168 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,760 S2: hard stuff of your life, but they don't come to 169 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,840 S2: hear you painted as though it's it's a downhill slide. 170 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:18,760 S3: Yeah. 171 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:24,480 S2: Jesus didn't do it that way. He talked straight about 172 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:30,080 S2: hypocrites like those hypocrites were there listening to him. And 173 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,839 S2: he warned the disciples about, uh, following those that were 174 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,880 S2: blind leaders of the blind. And he said, you know, 175 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,000 S2: if you do that, you'll all wind up in the ditch. Well, 176 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,380 S2: I admire that. I think that's a great way to be. 177 00:11:47,540 --> 00:11:51,660 S2: I think truth always wins out. Maybe not at the 178 00:11:51,660 --> 00:11:56,180 S2: moment you declare it, but ultimately you're glad you told 179 00:11:56,179 --> 00:11:58,540 S2: the truth. So I decided if I was going to 180 00:11:58,540 --> 00:12:00,100 S2: write the book, I was going to tell the truth, 181 00:12:00,100 --> 00:12:00,780 S2: so I did. 182 00:12:01,100 --> 00:12:05,660 S1: Yeah. Okay, so your voice. When I when I get 183 00:12:05,660 --> 00:12:07,939 S1: to heaven, I'm going to listen for your voice. I 184 00:12:07,940 --> 00:12:10,620 S1: believe I'm going to hear my dad's voice from across 185 00:12:10,620 --> 00:12:13,700 S1: the way. And I'm going to recognize Adrian Rogers from 186 00:12:13,700 --> 00:12:17,780 S1: his voice and Billy Graham from his voice. Do you 187 00:12:17,780 --> 00:12:18,860 S1: agree with that? 188 00:12:19,260 --> 00:12:22,780 S2: Yeah, I do. I do. I don't think our voice 189 00:12:22,780 --> 00:12:25,699 S2: will change when we're in heaven. Um, mine is kind 190 00:12:25,740 --> 00:12:29,220 S2: of hoarse today, but I'm 92, and so you tend 191 00:12:29,220 --> 00:12:33,300 S2: to lose some of your, um, I don't know, uh, 192 00:12:34,740 --> 00:12:40,260 S2: the density of your voice, the, uh, the, uh, resonance 193 00:12:40,260 --> 00:12:43,940 S2: that you've had most of your life tends to take 194 00:12:43,940 --> 00:12:47,330 S2: a hike when you're over 90. Yeah. 195 00:12:47,370 --> 00:12:47,650 S3: But. 196 00:12:48,170 --> 00:12:50,730 S2: Uh, you know, that's the way life is. 197 00:12:51,170 --> 00:12:54,250 S1: Whose voice are you looking for other than Jesus? Whose 198 00:12:54,250 --> 00:12:56,730 S1: voice are you looking forward to hearing in heaven? 199 00:12:57,130 --> 00:13:02,890 S2: Well, of course, the men that mentored me, Holly Hendricks, uh, uh, 200 00:13:03,010 --> 00:13:07,530 S2: Ray Stedman. Um, I would love to visit with him 201 00:13:07,530 --> 00:13:12,810 S2: for half a century. You know, um, uh, Bob Newkirk 202 00:13:12,809 --> 00:13:16,850 S2: was a navigators who spent hours and hours with me 203 00:13:16,850 --> 00:13:21,010 S2: when I was a lowly marine over on the island 204 00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:26,370 S2: of Okinawa. And, um, Richard Niemi, the man who took 205 00:13:26,370 --> 00:13:29,690 S2: me under his wing in high school and told and 206 00:13:29,730 --> 00:13:34,250 S2: taught me how to speak without stuttering. Those voices will 207 00:13:34,250 --> 00:13:36,090 S2: mean much to me. 208 00:13:36,490 --> 00:13:36,890 S3: Yeah. 209 00:13:37,850 --> 00:13:41,770 S1: Uh, my pal Larry asks, did you enjoy posing in 210 00:13:41,809 --> 00:13:46,630 S1: motorcycle leathers for the promotional blitz as the Terminator. 211 00:13:47,429 --> 00:13:47,670 S3: Uh. 212 00:13:47,710 --> 00:13:51,950 S2: Sometime, sometime, I felt kind of like a, uh, you know, uh, 213 00:13:52,309 --> 00:13:57,670 S2: I was, uh, on the spot, but normally I didn't 214 00:13:57,670 --> 00:14:01,430 S2: mind that, you know, I, I knew going in that 215 00:14:01,429 --> 00:14:04,150 S2: I was one of the first that would, that would 216 00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:08,110 S2: be riding a Harley as a pastor. And that was fine. 217 00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:08,550 S3: Uh. 218 00:14:09,070 --> 00:14:12,390 S2: In Cynthia got to where she was okay with it. 219 00:14:12,429 --> 00:14:18,710 S2: We were sitting in the, in the, um, um, Harley, uh, 220 00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:22,510 S2: shop one day trying out different bikes and sitting on 221 00:14:22,510 --> 00:14:27,030 S2: this one and that one. And she said, uh, what 222 00:14:27,070 --> 00:14:29,870 S2: if somebody sees this? I said, well, first of all, nobody, 223 00:14:29,870 --> 00:14:33,110 S2: the Harley shop will know who we are. But if 224 00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:36,030 S2: somebody happens along with us, we'll just tell them we're 225 00:14:36,030 --> 00:14:42,900 S2: Jim and Shirley Dobson. And and then, uh, she, I 226 00:14:42,940 --> 00:14:44,940 S2: then I thought, well, they know who they don't know 227 00:14:44,940 --> 00:14:49,460 S2: who they are either. Um, so, uh, obviously I was 228 00:14:49,460 --> 00:14:52,060 S2: in good company. Those are, those are, for the most part, 229 00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:55,820 S2: good people. I can tell you half a dozen good 230 00:14:55,820 --> 00:14:59,340 S2: stories from my Harley days. Those were great years. 231 00:14:59,380 --> 00:15:02,100 S1: And they're. And the stories are in there and awakened 232 00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:06,180 S1: by grace. Okay. You mentioned Jim and Shirley. Um, Jim 233 00:15:06,180 --> 00:15:09,660 S1: passed away. You can't go fishing with him anymore, right? 234 00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:17,140 S2: I know, I know, I know, I love Jim. Yeah. Yep. Uh, yeah. 235 00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:22,220 S2: He he was a unique vessel God used in a 236 00:15:22,220 --> 00:15:26,500 S2: wonderful way in many, many lives, helped many a parent 237 00:15:26,500 --> 00:15:29,900 S2: with raising kids. And, and, uh, we got to know 238 00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:32,940 S2: Jim and Shirley very well, and they would come over 239 00:15:32,940 --> 00:15:35,300 S2: to Fullerton or we'd go down to where they lived 240 00:15:35,340 --> 00:15:38,140 S2: and when they were living in California, and we'd have 241 00:15:38,140 --> 00:15:41,760 S2: a bite to eat together. And Then I did that 242 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,640 S2: fishing trip with him up in Canada with. When the 243 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,080 S2: guys came and everybody who came brought their son, which 244 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,920 S2: I thought was a great idea. And we had, we, 245 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,320 S2: we had a lot of a lot of fun at 246 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:55,040 S2: that place. 247 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,520 S1: Lisa asks, did you and Lucy fight as kids? 248 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:05,640 S2: Oh yeah. Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean, we're brother and sister, 249 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:06,160 S2: aren't we? 250 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:07,160 S1: Yeah. 251 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,160 S2: But, I mean, we didn't bring blood, but. Oh, yeah, 252 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,880 S2: we had arguments, but I got along better with my 253 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:18,880 S2: sister than I did with my brother. Uh, Orville, who 254 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,560 S2: most people in America don't know, but South America, he's 255 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,520 S2: very well known. He was there 33 years. MM. And 256 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,720 S2: by the way, uh, Chris, he loved Jesus long before 257 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,320 S2: I did. I wake up at night in my little 258 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,560 S2: twin bed there in the same bedroom as he and 259 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:43,550 S2: I look over and he'd be on his knees praying 260 00:16:44,750 --> 00:16:49,830 S2: and I'd say good night. You know what? Could I 261 00:16:49,830 --> 00:16:52,870 S2: have Bobby Layne for my brother? Well, why couldn't I 262 00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:56,910 S2: have Doak Walker? Uh, and I name another, you know, 263 00:16:56,950 --> 00:17:01,230 S2: great football player. And God gave me Martin Luther, you know, 264 00:17:01,270 --> 00:17:06,310 S2: from a brother. And, uh, I'd tease him about that, and, uh, 265 00:17:06,350 --> 00:17:09,910 S2: he'd sometime laugh and sometime wouldn't. I remember one time 266 00:17:09,910 --> 00:17:14,310 S2: my mother called on me to pray. And I. I, uh, 267 00:17:14,350 --> 00:17:17,350 S2: shot out with a memorized prayer. God bless this food 268 00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:19,590 S2: and make our body strong and free. That we may 269 00:17:19,630 --> 00:17:22,350 S2: use our health and strength in service to thee. Amen. 270 00:17:22,390 --> 00:17:26,350 S2: Pass the potatoes. And, uh, my brother looked at me 271 00:17:26,350 --> 00:17:31,869 S2: and said, Charles, I know what he says. When are 272 00:17:31,869 --> 00:17:33,669 S2: you going to learn to pray? 273 00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:34,669 S1: MM. 274 00:17:35,070 --> 00:17:39,330 S2: Don't you think you're old enough to pray on your own. 275 00:17:40,650 --> 00:17:43,570 S2: So I said, uh oh, still while I cut your 276 00:17:43,570 --> 00:17:48,130 S2: lips off. And then I backed up and said, yeah, 277 00:17:48,130 --> 00:17:52,810 S2: I probably am. And to tell you the truth, down deep, 278 00:17:53,490 --> 00:17:59,850 S2: I really admired him. He taught me a number of things. And, uh, uh, 279 00:17:59,970 --> 00:18:05,250 S2: he was a missionary par excellence down in Buenos Aires. 280 00:18:06,490 --> 00:18:12,210 S2: And people there I've known there as Orville's brother. In fact, 281 00:18:12,250 --> 00:18:15,290 S2: did you know this when when they were when we 282 00:18:15,330 --> 00:18:19,130 S2: were putting my, uh, commentary series on the New Testament 283 00:18:19,690 --> 00:18:23,970 S2: in Spanish. One of the people in our Spanish department 284 00:18:23,970 --> 00:18:26,890 S2: and insightful living said, did you know that Orville is 285 00:18:26,890 --> 00:18:30,850 S2: doing some translating work in one of your books? I said, no. 286 00:18:31,369 --> 00:18:36,800 S2: She said, and by the way, it is an outstanding translation, 287 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:42,120 S2: I said, yep, I'm sure it is. He was approaching genius. 288 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:43,080 S2: He was brilliant. 289 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:43,840 S1: Yeah. 290 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:45,600 S2: Well, and I wasn't. 291 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,960 S1: That comes through in the story. Regular guy that comes 292 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,320 S1: through in the stories of how much you. You loved 293 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,520 S1: him and Lucy too. But there was there was friction. 294 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,960 S1: There was conflict there. One of the things that you 295 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:02,880 S1: had that I didn't know was how musical your family was, 296 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:03,960 S1: how you would sing. 297 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:04,480 S2: Oh, yeah. 298 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,359 S1: There's a story that you tell. 299 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,240 S2: You don't stutter when you, when you sing. 300 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:11,159 S1: Right. 301 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,720 S2: And I stuttered so badly. By the time I got 302 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:21,199 S2: on an elementary school that I couldn't get my. Words out. 303 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,920 S2: And they would sing a song. And I never stuttered. 304 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,840 S2: And my mother taught us how to harmonize and. And 305 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,200 S2: we kind of became the hit and El Campo where 306 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,040 S2: we were born and we'd. We'd stand on the marble 307 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:39,740 S2: counter and sing patriotic songs and howl howl right in 308 00:19:39,740 --> 00:19:43,540 S2: the viewer's face. Great. You know, great songs like that. 309 00:19:43,660 --> 00:19:48,060 S2: And we'd sing America the Beautiful and we'd sing the 310 00:19:48,060 --> 00:19:50,940 S2: national anthem, and everybody in that place would stand up 311 00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:54,820 S2: with their hand over their heart. And then, uh, Red 312 00:19:54,859 --> 00:19:57,980 S2: head who owned the pharmacy would give us a double 313 00:19:57,980 --> 00:20:02,500 S2: deck ice cream cone if we got an encore. And we, 314 00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:06,459 S2: we always seem to get an encore. So, um, we, we, 315 00:20:06,619 --> 00:20:09,219 S2: we love to do that. We sang a lot together. 316 00:20:09,380 --> 00:20:11,899 S1: Yes. I want you to take me back six years, though. 317 00:20:11,940 --> 00:20:16,260 S1: Six years during Covid. You, you and Lucy had kind 318 00:20:16,260 --> 00:20:18,419 S1: of a final conversation. Tell that story. 319 00:20:18,460 --> 00:20:21,980 S2: Yeah, yeah, it was very meaningful. We used to do 320 00:20:21,980 --> 00:20:25,020 S2: the dishes together, and one of the songs we sang 321 00:20:25,020 --> 00:20:28,500 S2: was You Are My Sunshine. And, uh, when I went 322 00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:31,139 S2: to visit her, they wouldn't let me in the room. 323 00:20:31,140 --> 00:20:35,170 S2: So I stood outside in the cold and I, They 324 00:20:35,170 --> 00:20:37,410 S2: opened the window a little bit so she could hear me, 325 00:20:37,410 --> 00:20:42,090 S2: and she was in there just about gone. And I said, hey, 326 00:20:42,090 --> 00:20:46,970 S2: let's sing together. And she suddenly kind of woke open 327 00:20:46,970 --> 00:20:50,170 S2: one eye. And I began, you are my sunshine, my 328 00:20:50,170 --> 00:20:55,050 S2: only sunshine. You make me happy when skies are grey. 329 00:20:55,050 --> 00:20:59,450 S2: You'll never know how much I love you. And I 330 00:20:59,490 --> 00:21:05,250 S2: suddenly forgot the last line. And she sang, please don't 331 00:21:05,290 --> 00:21:14,250 S2: take my sunshine away. When she died. She leaned back 332 00:21:14,250 --> 00:21:22,650 S2: and died while we were singing together. Oh, I'll tell you, Chris, 333 00:21:23,530 --> 00:21:29,450 S2: that's a great memory. And I realized, you realize when 334 00:21:29,450 --> 00:21:33,790 S2: you lose them that you really loved them. Yeah. And 335 00:21:33,790 --> 00:21:35,630 S2: you don't want to wait till they're gone before you 336 00:21:35,630 --> 00:21:42,470 S2: tell them that. I'm, uh, I'm mentoring my three of 337 00:21:42,470 --> 00:21:45,950 S2: my grandsons right now, and and I'm teaching them a 338 00:21:45,950 --> 00:21:48,870 S2: number of things that I was never taught, but I 339 00:21:48,869 --> 00:21:53,670 S2: learned through the years. Oh, and one of them is 340 00:21:53,670 --> 00:21:59,430 S2: to say, I love you. Don't they love you? You 341 00:21:59,470 --> 00:22:03,710 S2: say that to your dog. Love you Snoopy. Love you. 342 00:22:04,630 --> 00:22:06,790 S2: But when you're looking at somebody you love, look them 343 00:22:06,790 --> 00:22:11,150 S2: in the eye. Hold them by the shoulders. And if 344 00:22:11,150 --> 00:22:15,750 S2: you feel comfortable, give them a hug and whisper, I 345 00:22:16,109 --> 00:22:22,310 S2: love you. And just as Lucy was fading away. Please 346 00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:27,629 S2: don't take my sunshine away. I said I love you, sis. 347 00:22:29,670 --> 00:22:36,420 S2: And she never answered. Life's too short to get bitter. 348 00:22:37,619 --> 00:22:43,980 S2: To let the hard times make you mean and ugly. 349 00:22:45,420 --> 00:22:47,660 S2: And that's what I would pass on to everybody that's 350 00:22:47,660 --> 00:22:54,179 S2: listening today. Uh. Look at the way Jesus lived. Those 351 00:22:54,180 --> 00:22:57,860 S2: who hated him the most were still a part of 352 00:22:57,859 --> 00:23:00,780 S2: his audience. Do you know that when he did the 353 00:23:00,780 --> 00:23:04,540 S2: sermon on the Mount, those hypocrites were standing around the 354 00:23:04,540 --> 00:23:08,020 S2: edge listening to him. And he talks about hypocrites. Like, 355 00:23:09,340 --> 00:23:15,140 S2: I mean, he talked straight. And, uh, when he got 356 00:23:15,140 --> 00:23:18,020 S2: alone with his disciples, he said, don't be like one 357 00:23:18,020 --> 00:23:21,780 S2: of them. That's the that's the major statement in the 358 00:23:21,780 --> 00:23:25,619 S2: sermon on the Mount. Don't be like any of them. 359 00:23:27,740 --> 00:23:31,760 S2: And I think it really was implying me like me. 360 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,919 S2: Be like the Son of God. Don't be afraid to 361 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,360 S2: be like him. He told the truth. He paid the price. 362 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:49,480 S2: He never gave people evil for evil. He treated folks 363 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:59,560 S2: with respect. He never failed to reveal the good news 364 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,680 S2: regarding the way we find our way to heaven. I 365 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:09,439 S2: am the way, the truth, the life. No one goes 366 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:14,879 S2: to the father but through me. It's pretty. It's pretty tight. 367 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:21,840 S2: But it's also right. I'd really rather be right than anything. 368 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:22,600 S4: Yeah. 369 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,080 S1: Well, that is the gospel infused heart of a man 370 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,990 S1: who has walked that. And as you've just talked about, 371 00:24:30,990 --> 00:24:34,190 S1: Cynthia and the struggle that you've lived through with her, 372 00:24:34,190 --> 00:24:37,910 S1: you've done that. I can't thank you enough for writing 373 00:24:37,910 --> 00:24:41,950 S1: the reality of what you've experienced and how God has. 374 00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:45,109 S2: Chris has helped really means a lot to me that 375 00:24:45,109 --> 00:24:49,790 S2: you would see that, because I'm going to admit there 376 00:24:49,790 --> 00:24:53,710 S2: were some of those chapters. I think I thought to myself, okay, 377 00:24:54,950 --> 00:24:56,630 S2: I'm going to I'm going to put this down. I'm 378 00:24:56,630 --> 00:24:59,869 S2: going to write this in this book. I'm going to 379 00:24:59,910 --> 00:25:04,070 S2: sign off on this. And the publisher said, okay, let's 380 00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:07,109 S2: do it. I even told people, you know, when you 381 00:25:07,109 --> 00:25:09,910 S2: go to when you want to find the church, drive 382 00:25:09,910 --> 00:25:11,550 S2: to Hooters and turn left. 383 00:25:14,230 --> 00:25:15,750 S1: That's the best chapter in there. 384 00:25:15,790 --> 00:25:18,750 S2: You got to quit saying that. What did they go to? Hooters? 385 00:25:19,070 --> 00:25:20,950 S2: I said, well, they go to Hooters. They really will 386 00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:23,469 S2: need to turn left anyway. We had a lot of 387 00:25:23,470 --> 00:25:24,229 S2: fun in life. 388 00:25:24,430 --> 00:25:27,740 S1: That is the best chapter in there, Chuck. That is 389 00:25:27,740 --> 00:25:30,580 S1: the best chapter in there. Thank you, thank you, thank you. 390 00:25:30,660 --> 00:25:31,939 S1: Thank you for joining us. 391 00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:33,060 S2: Today, Chris. 392 00:25:33,260 --> 00:25:35,500 S1: I'm going to do it. And it's all because. 393 00:25:35,619 --> 00:25:36,899 S2: A pretty serious place. 394 00:25:37,140 --> 00:25:37,700 S1: You've been. 395 00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:39,540 S2: Having to tell him to laugh over there. 396 00:25:41,140 --> 00:25:45,260 S1: The book is awakened by Grace by Charles Swindoll, our 397 00:25:45,260 --> 00:25:48,820 S1: guest today on Chris Fabry Live. Joel Smallbone is coming 398 00:25:48,820 --> 00:26:07,060 S1: up straight ahead on Moody Radio. Thanks for joining us 399 00:26:07,060 --> 00:26:10,780 S1: today at the Radio Backyard Fence. Yep. Chuck Swindoll is 400 00:26:10,820 --> 00:26:13,940 S1: that voice. You just can't keep a good man down. 401 00:26:13,980 --> 00:26:17,660 S1: That's one of our featured resources today. Another one that 402 00:26:17,660 --> 00:26:20,939 S1: I've been telling you about all month long. This offer 403 00:26:20,940 --> 00:26:27,360 S1: ends on Saturday is Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth. Consider Jesus meditations 404 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,479 S1: on the person and work of Christ. We're offering this 405 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,640 S1: in October, so I can get it to you by 406 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,399 S1: December so that you can go through it. It is 407 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:40,720 S1: an excellent way to marvel at the manger, ponder the prince, 408 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,680 S1: and savor the Savior this Christmas. Consider Jesus. Give a 409 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,800 S1: gift of any size that helps us out at the 410 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,640 S1: back fence, and we will send you a copy of that. 411 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,880 S1: Put it in the mail to you as quickly as 412 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,320 S1: we can. Just go to Chris favorite.org. Scroll down. You'll 413 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,360 S1: see how you can be a friend or partner with 414 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:10,359 S1: us right there. Chris Fabry live.org. Or call 8669538669532279. You 415 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,760 S1: know him from the music that he makes with his 416 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,120 S1: brother Luke in the group for King and Country. If 417 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:21,240 S1: you've seen the films Unsung hero, Priceless, Journey to Bethlehem, 418 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,640 S1: The Book of Esther, and like a country song you 419 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,869 S1: have seen, he is an accomplished actor and director. He's 420 00:27:27,869 --> 00:27:31,909 S1: been married to Maria, his wife, for 13 years, and 421 00:27:31,910 --> 00:27:35,910 S1: a new project releases not this Friday, but next Friday, 422 00:27:35,910 --> 00:27:41,310 S1: November 6th. It's titled Drummer Boy. Joel Smallbone, welcome to 423 00:27:41,310 --> 00:27:42,790 S1: the program. How you doing today? 424 00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:47,790 S5: What I heard, Chris, was I'm the long lost, lost 425 00:27:47,790 --> 00:27:51,710 S5: Smallbone for you to interview, which I'm so proud. I'm 426 00:27:51,710 --> 00:27:52,430 S5: so proud. 427 00:27:52,630 --> 00:27:54,790 S1: Yes. Well, it's great to have because I've talked with 428 00:27:54,790 --> 00:27:57,710 S1: your sister and your parents and, you know, cousins have 429 00:27:57,710 --> 00:28:01,790 S1: come along, but now it's your turn. Okay, so I watched, 430 00:28:01,790 --> 00:28:04,990 S1: I got a I get emails and I see, well, 431 00:28:04,990 --> 00:28:06,950 S1: you read this book. Will you listen to this song? 432 00:28:06,990 --> 00:28:09,670 S1: Will you watch this film? And there was this film 433 00:28:09,670 --> 00:28:11,910 S1: called Drummer Boy. And I know that what you've done 434 00:28:11,910 --> 00:28:14,870 S1: with the Drummer Boy song in the you know, it's 435 00:28:14,869 --> 00:28:18,670 S1: just fantastic what happens there on on the stage in concert, 436 00:28:19,070 --> 00:28:24,410 S1: but I was not prepared for what the cinematic. And 437 00:28:24,410 --> 00:28:27,170 S1: I'm watching it on a computer screen, but I'm hearing 438 00:28:27,170 --> 00:28:31,770 S1: echoes of Les Miserables. I'm hearing echoes of The Greatest 439 00:28:31,770 --> 00:28:37,129 S1: Showman with the music that you incorporate in here and somewhere. 440 00:28:37,130 --> 00:28:40,090 S1: I saw you say that this has been on your 441 00:28:40,090 --> 00:28:43,930 S1: heart and maybe you and your brother's heart, this story 442 00:28:44,170 --> 00:28:47,130 S1: for ten years. Tell me about Drummer Boy. 443 00:28:48,690 --> 00:28:48,930 S2: Yeah. 444 00:28:48,970 --> 00:28:52,130 S5: You are so right. It's almost been a decade. Um, 445 00:28:52,330 --> 00:28:56,050 S5: and you're also correct in that it's sort of the 446 00:28:56,050 --> 00:29:00,690 S5: impetus at some level was this sort of fantastic rhythmic 447 00:29:00,690 --> 00:29:03,170 S5: version that we did of, of Drummer Boy. You know, 448 00:29:03,250 --> 00:29:06,210 S5: we did the simplest thing, Chris. We took, you know, 449 00:29:06,250 --> 00:29:07,970 S5: a song about a boy playing drums and we put 450 00:29:07,970 --> 00:29:10,530 S5: a load of drums on it. And, uh, and yet 451 00:29:10,530 --> 00:29:13,890 S5: I have TSA agents coming up to me going, not, oh, 452 00:29:13,890 --> 00:29:15,450 S5: you're the guy from for King Country. They go, oh, 453 00:29:15,490 --> 00:29:18,650 S5: you're the little drummer boy guy. And so my brother Ben, 454 00:29:18,730 --> 00:29:22,240 S5: who's a filmmaker, came to me, uh, in 2018 Actually, 455 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,840 S5: it was like, this is such an incredible concept. Did 456 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,920 S5: you know that, you know, in these wars, like the 457 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,479 S5: Revolutionary War, they communicated drum signals and retreats and they 458 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,160 S5: sort of spurred their fellow soldiers on through, through, um, 459 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,600 S5: you know, through rhythm and, and our brains exploded. And 460 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,160 S5: so naturally, being in a band with a brother, creating 461 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,360 S5: films with brother, a brother, we, we started conjuring up 462 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,400 S5: this historical fiction story about two brothers who end up 463 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,600 S5: on opposite sides of the battlefield called Drummer Boy, set 464 00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:00,550 S5: in 1776. And, um, lots of twists and turns between 465 00:30:00,550 --> 00:30:05,760 S5: 2000 and 18 and today. But I'm so proud to 466 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,800 S5: put this story of forgiveness and freedom. Like you said, 467 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,200 S5: it's kind of it's like Hamilton meets The Patriot meets 468 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,320 S5: Pride and Prejudice into cinemas on the 6th of November, 469 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,100 S5: on the 250 year anniversary of this great country. Chris. 470 00:30:21,900 --> 00:30:24,140 S1: And that's what I know. It's like you got England 471 00:30:24,140 --> 00:30:26,980 S1: in the United States, but you're from Australia. And so 472 00:30:26,980 --> 00:30:30,580 S1: you get this, you know, you get the idea and 473 00:30:30,580 --> 00:30:33,580 S1: the the scenery of this. There is, I think in 474 00:30:33,620 --> 00:30:37,860 S1: there's several times when this, uh, field shows up with 475 00:30:37,860 --> 00:30:40,380 S1: the trees on either side, and I'm thinking, that's got 476 00:30:40,380 --> 00:30:42,420 S1: to be, there's got to be some place in Tennessee 477 00:30:42,420 --> 00:30:45,580 S1: that has no electric lines. But you shot all of 478 00:30:45,580 --> 00:30:47,220 S1: it in Ireland, didn't you? 479 00:30:48,540 --> 00:30:51,020 S5: We we certainly did. Yeah. I was part of another 480 00:30:51,020 --> 00:30:54,420 S5: film called Young Washington that filmed in Ireland last year. 481 00:30:54,420 --> 00:30:56,780 S5: And it was kind of a bit of a God 482 00:30:56,780 --> 00:30:58,940 S5: moment because I was over there filming for Young Washington, 483 00:30:58,940 --> 00:31:01,300 S5: and obviously we'd been prepping for Drumma Boy, and I 484 00:31:01,340 --> 00:31:04,660 S5: turned around. I was like, everything, everyone from the producers 485 00:31:04,660 --> 00:31:08,460 S5: to the wardrobe to, you know, the the camera operators, 486 00:31:08,460 --> 00:31:10,580 S5: they were just excellent. What they did. They worked on 487 00:31:10,580 --> 00:31:12,660 S5: some of the biggest TV shows in the world over there, 488 00:31:12,780 --> 00:31:16,900 S5: you know, Vikings and Knights of the Seven Kingdoms. And, and, uh, 489 00:31:16,900 --> 00:31:18,660 S5: so I, I took a leap of faith and I 490 00:31:18,660 --> 00:31:21,770 S5: just said, well, what if we basically use the same team? Um, 491 00:31:21,810 --> 00:31:24,290 S5: at some level from young Washington for Drummer Boy and 492 00:31:24,290 --> 00:31:27,170 S5: they were just as you saw yourself, Chris. They were 493 00:31:27,170 --> 00:31:31,530 S5: just magnificent. It has, it's one of the rare films 494 00:31:31,530 --> 00:31:33,050 S5: for me that I'm like, you got to go see 495 00:31:33,050 --> 00:31:37,530 S5: this in cinemas because it has that sort of fantastic 496 00:31:37,530 --> 00:31:42,410 S5: silver screen, uh, you know, cinematic feeling to it. 497 00:31:43,010 --> 00:31:48,210 S1: Yes. Well, and I was surprised the, the casting of this, 498 00:31:48,210 --> 00:31:51,210 S1: whoever was the casting director and maybe you were part 499 00:31:51,210 --> 00:31:55,930 S1: of that was just did such a fantastic job. But 500 00:31:55,930 --> 00:31:57,850 S1: here's the one that surprised me and I'm not going 501 00:31:57,890 --> 00:32:01,290 S1: to give it away. But there was an actress who 502 00:32:01,290 --> 00:32:03,810 S1: plays your mother. And I kept thinking, wait a minute, 503 00:32:03,810 --> 00:32:07,610 S1: I've seen I've seen her before, I know her, I've seen. 504 00:32:07,650 --> 00:32:10,930 S1: Isn't she? And then and then she sings this song 505 00:32:10,970 --> 00:32:13,050 S1: and it's like, well, there's no way this could be 506 00:32:13,050 --> 00:32:16,170 S1: the same person. And it was she was on this 507 00:32:16,170 --> 00:32:20,110 S1: famous television show and has been for a long, long time. 508 00:32:20,110 --> 00:32:24,229 S1: People will know her from that. But her voice is 509 00:32:24,230 --> 00:32:25,630 S1: just fantastic. 510 00:32:26,550 --> 00:32:29,310 S5: Yes. So she her name is Melora Hardin, and I 511 00:32:29,310 --> 00:32:32,710 S5: literally Chris left the screening with her to come and 512 00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:34,630 S5: talk to you. Uh, she just walked in front of 513 00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:36,750 S5: my car five minutes ago. For those of you that 514 00:32:36,750 --> 00:32:40,070 S5: have ever watched The Office, she plays Jan Levinson in 515 00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:44,070 S5: the office, and she she also was part of Chicago 516 00:32:44,110 --> 00:32:47,510 S5: the Musical. And she sang in that. And she was 517 00:32:47,510 --> 00:32:49,950 S5: such a gift. As you said, she plays our mom 518 00:32:50,390 --> 00:32:53,830 S5: or our mom in, in, in, uh, drummer boy and 519 00:32:53,830 --> 00:32:57,110 S5: a beautiful voice, beautiful spirit. She actually is speaking of 520 00:32:57,110 --> 00:32:59,110 S5: my sister. She reminds me very much of my sister 521 00:32:59,110 --> 00:33:06,430 S5: Rebecca and, um, and has that maternal strength to her that, um, 522 00:33:07,030 --> 00:33:11,150 S5: our mother in depicted in Drumma boy needed to have. 523 00:33:11,190 --> 00:33:14,470 S5: And I can't speak highly enough of her and of 524 00:33:14,470 --> 00:33:17,540 S5: the whole cast. You know, we had Ian Glenn from 525 00:33:17,540 --> 00:33:20,260 S5: Game of Thrones in Downton Abbey. And we had Charles 526 00:33:20,300 --> 00:33:24,740 S5: Aston from, uh, Nashville and Outer Banks, and we had, uh, 527 00:33:24,780 --> 00:33:29,660 S5: Joan Griffin from, uh, King Arthur and Amazing Grace and 528 00:33:29,660 --> 00:33:32,180 S5: the original Mr. Fantastic from the Fantastic Four that we 529 00:33:32,180 --> 00:33:35,260 S5: just had this incredible ensemble come together. And I was 530 00:33:35,260 --> 00:33:39,620 S5: really proud to one direct them, but also act alongside 531 00:33:39,620 --> 00:33:41,380 S5: them as a character in the film. 532 00:33:42,180 --> 00:33:46,660 S1: You have said that a lot of your films are 533 00:33:47,060 --> 00:33:50,940 S1: about the power of a woman. Uh, that unsung hero 534 00:33:50,980 --> 00:33:53,740 S1: was was about mainly about your mom, but also your 535 00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:57,940 S1: sister as well. You're centered on a female protagonist, and 536 00:33:57,940 --> 00:34:01,380 S1: you do this on an epic scale in Drummer Boy. 537 00:34:01,380 --> 00:34:05,020 S1: But there's also the other two themes that I see 538 00:34:05,060 --> 00:34:11,580 S1: is conflict among brothers or sibling rivalry or conflict in families, 539 00:34:11,620 --> 00:34:17,680 S1: number one. And number two, the power of a father 540 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,760 S1: in the life of his family. Talk about those things 541 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,160 S1: and how they came together. 542 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,360 S5: Yeah, well, I'll share in chronological order. I'm so glad 543 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,040 S5: you brought up just my heart for women. You know, 544 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,680 S5: I'm the son of a courageous immigrant mom and the 545 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,799 S5: brother to two awesome sisters and a husband, as you 546 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,319 S5: mentioned earlier to Mariah, who is who is just this 547 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:44,480 S5: powerful partner. And she's so smart and, and I'm so 548 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,799 S5: she's like, these women built me. And so part of 549 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,919 S5: the dedication for me of these stories is to talk 550 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,480 S5: about women and, and, you know, whether it's my mother 551 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,680 S5: or my sister or in this case, Emmeline, who's an 552 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,720 S5: enslaved woman kind of caught in these crossfires. And, um, 553 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,560 S5: and yes, also, as you well mentioned, it's a brothers story. 554 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,840 S5: You know, I'm, I'm in a band with a brother. I, 555 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,120 S5: you know, work on films with the brother. And I'm, 556 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,200 S5: I'm really proud to share a lot of a lot 557 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,870 S5: of what you saw on screen was really originally, um, 558 00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:21,430 S5: sort of depicted behind the camera. Um, and my brother 559 00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:26,510 S5: Ben and I, who, uh, we, I've created movies with him, 560 00:35:27,110 --> 00:35:29,390 S5: you know, bad spin offs of Indiana Jones since we 561 00:35:29,390 --> 00:35:31,830 S5: were teenagers, you know, in the backwoods of Mom and 562 00:35:31,830 --> 00:35:34,549 S5: Dad's property. And we went through a time over the 563 00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:37,069 S5: last few years where we just created differences and we 564 00:35:37,110 --> 00:35:39,630 S5: sort of went our own ways. And, and so Drumma 565 00:35:39,630 --> 00:35:42,590 S5: Boy really brought he and I back together. So you're 566 00:35:42,590 --> 00:35:46,430 S5: seeing sort of these brothers coming, ending up on opposite 567 00:35:46,430 --> 00:35:48,270 S5: sides of the battlefield and trying to find their way 568 00:35:48,270 --> 00:35:50,950 S5: back to each other on screen whilst it was sort 569 00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:55,150 S5: of happening behind the screen. And I, I feel like, Chris, 570 00:35:55,150 --> 00:35:58,230 S5: those are the most powerful stories for me is when 571 00:35:58,750 --> 00:36:03,549 S5: they're written into your life in some way, shape or form, 572 00:36:03,989 --> 00:36:06,870 S5: and then you express them through a song or in 573 00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:08,070 S5: this case, through cinema. 574 00:36:08,630 --> 00:36:12,790 S1: Yes. Joel Smallbone is with us today. Drummer boy is 575 00:36:12,850 --> 00:36:17,130 S1: coming out. It's coming out one week from this Friday. 576 00:36:17,610 --> 00:36:20,370 S1: It's our featured resource. You can click through, go and 577 00:36:20,370 --> 00:36:23,730 S1: watch the trailer, and you'll see just a taste of 578 00:36:23,730 --> 00:36:27,730 S1: what they've done with this film. More conversation with Joel 579 00:36:27,730 --> 00:36:41,049 S1: straight ahead on Moody Radio. We're talking with musician actor 580 00:36:41,050 --> 00:36:45,569 S1: director Joel Smallbone today at the Radio Backyard Fence. When 581 00:36:45,570 --> 00:36:50,650 S1: I saw this film just last week, uh, I thought, 582 00:36:50,730 --> 00:36:56,090 S1: there's something special. There's something special about this and its 583 00:36:56,130 --> 00:36:59,010 S1: production values. You know, that's that's one of the things. 584 00:36:59,050 --> 00:37:03,129 S1: It's the music, the acting, the horses, the, you know, 585 00:37:03,130 --> 00:37:06,850 S1: the period piece that it is in the 1700s. It's 586 00:37:06,890 --> 00:37:12,120 S1: called Drummer Boy. And there is a drummer boy in 587 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,719 S1: the film, and there are two brothers who are at odds. 588 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,000 S1: You can see the trailer. Uh, we have a link 589 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,839 S1: to the film and to Joel's information right there. Chris 590 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:27,879 S1: Fabry live.org. Chris fabriclive.org. It comes out November 6th. So 591 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,960 S1: the election is November 3rd. There's a lot going on. 592 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,760 S1: There's a lot of films that are coming out. Uh, 593 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,280 S1: but that first weekend is really important, isn't it, Joel? 594 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,200 S5: Well, it certainly is. It's a funny thing to recalibrate 595 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,160 S5: Chris as a musician because, you know, with songs, you 596 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,719 S5: release singles over a couple of years and you do 597 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,640 S5: the tours and you can kind of just sort of 598 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,480 S5: release this music and you've got time. But with movies, 599 00:37:53,719 --> 00:38:00,600 S5: that first weekend is everything. Um, and uh, so November 6th, seventh, 600 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:05,600 S5: and eighth, that that's 72 hours is really where people 601 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,840 S5: decide whether a film about forgiveness and freedom and, and 602 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,580 S5: the 250th anniversary of this country, and whether these types 603 00:38:13,580 --> 00:38:17,420 S5: of themes are something that resonate with culture. And I'm 604 00:38:17,460 --> 00:38:21,859 S5: so excited about the film. And then I'm slightly terrified 605 00:38:21,860 --> 00:38:24,500 S5: as well, Chris, because I'm like, I know there's something 606 00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:28,819 S5: special about this and families will really resonate this Christmas. 607 00:38:28,820 --> 00:38:31,060 S5: And with, as you well said, with the elections and 608 00:38:31,060 --> 00:38:35,259 S5: everything else going on, um, our hope is that, uh, the, 609 00:38:35,340 --> 00:38:40,020 S5: the math basically is that if a million Americans show 610 00:38:40,020 --> 00:38:42,580 S5: up on opening weekend, that's what it would take for 611 00:38:42,580 --> 00:38:46,020 S5: it to be a sort of a success, so to speak. 612 00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:52,780 S1: And you have a gift, a gift for the people 613 00:38:52,780 --> 00:38:54,860 S1: who want to take somebody with them. Right? 614 00:38:55,300 --> 00:38:56,660 S6: I do actually, so. 615 00:38:57,460 --> 00:39:01,219 S5: Uh, the ladies listening will know this terminology. At least 616 00:39:01,219 --> 00:39:03,860 S5: my wife said they would. And that is the terminology Bogo. 617 00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:05,020 S5: Do you know this terminology? 618 00:39:05,060 --> 00:39:06,620 S6: Sure. Chris. Absolutely. Yeah. 619 00:39:07,100 --> 00:39:11,170 S5: Um, I didn't somehow I've lived under a homeschooler rock. But, um, 620 00:39:11,570 --> 00:39:14,609 S5: my brother and myself, I flew out to Salt Lake, 621 00:39:14,610 --> 00:39:16,970 S5: where the film studio is, and I said, hey, um, 622 00:39:17,210 --> 00:39:24,410 S5: what about we offer America the first Christmas gift of, 623 00:39:24,650 --> 00:39:30,049 S5: of 2026? And so, um, for that one weekend for 624 00:39:30,050 --> 00:39:33,009 S5: the sixth, seventh and eighth, uh, if you buy a 625 00:39:33,010 --> 00:39:38,010 S5: ticket through, uh, angel.com, uh, they will gift you a, 626 00:39:38,010 --> 00:39:41,370 S5: a second ticket as a way of saying thank you 627 00:39:41,370 --> 00:39:43,890 S5: for supporting this film and as a way of, on 628 00:39:43,890 --> 00:39:46,370 S5: behalf of the King country and angel Studios giving you 629 00:39:46,370 --> 00:39:49,609 S5: your first Christmas gift. And so the if you've got 630 00:39:49,610 --> 00:39:52,290 S5: a pen and paper or a good memory, you go 631 00:39:52,290 --> 00:39:59,770 S5: to angel.com/drummer boy. So angel.com/drummer boy. And the key word 632 00:39:59,770 --> 00:40:04,450 S5: is gift. Um, and, uh, you'll be able to grab 633 00:40:04,450 --> 00:40:07,890 S5: a ticket for yourself, uh, and a family member or 634 00:40:07,989 --> 00:40:09,670 S5: a friend in the first weekend. 635 00:40:09,710 --> 00:40:12,109 S1: I think even I could remember that one. 636 00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:15,070 S6: Tremor.com/drummer boy. 637 00:40:15,230 --> 00:40:15,550 S5: Drummer. 638 00:40:15,550 --> 00:40:15,830 S6: Boy. 639 00:40:15,950 --> 00:40:19,110 S1: And GIFT. Okay, here's what the film did for me. 640 00:40:19,150 --> 00:40:22,150 S1: I because I was a little fuzzy on the math. 641 00:40:22,150 --> 00:40:27,390 S1: It's like, okay, so it starts in 1762 and then 642 00:40:27,390 --> 00:40:32,710 S1: goes to 1776. The boys are younger than their dad. 643 00:40:32,750 --> 00:40:36,710 S1: They're on this ship. And it made me think, well, 644 00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:39,950 S1: wait a minute, when was Wilberforce? Because there is a 645 00:40:40,630 --> 00:40:45,950 S1: an enslaved young woman who is learning to read and 646 00:40:45,950 --> 00:40:48,710 S1: being being taught how to read. And I thought, well, 647 00:40:48,750 --> 00:40:53,070 S1: I found out Wilberforce was born in 1759. He began 648 00:40:53,070 --> 00:40:58,029 S1: his political career in 1780. So the abolition of the 649 00:40:58,030 --> 00:41:02,310 S1: slave trade took, you know, until 1800, 1806 or so 650 00:41:02,310 --> 00:41:07,580 S1: in England. So they you're 44 years away when this 651 00:41:07,580 --> 00:41:13,380 S1: story begins in America and the turmoil that's going on, uh, 652 00:41:13,380 --> 00:41:16,780 S1: in the States, you know, for freedom and, and half 653 00:41:16,780 --> 00:41:18,940 S1: of the families who are saying, no, we got to 654 00:41:19,020 --> 00:41:21,500 S1: we got to be honor the king, you know, we're 655 00:41:21,500 --> 00:41:25,580 S1: going to follow that biblical injunction or no, we want independence. 656 00:41:25,580 --> 00:41:28,620 S1: We want freedom. So there is just, you know, you 657 00:41:28,660 --> 00:41:33,140 S1: talk about the Civil War and, and the conflict there. 658 00:41:33,219 --> 00:41:36,219 S1: There was also that in the Revolutionary War, right? 659 00:41:36,820 --> 00:41:39,020 S5: There certainly was. And it's something that a lot of 660 00:41:39,020 --> 00:41:45,180 S5: people don't pin the Revolutionary War for. Um, but there was, 661 00:41:45,580 --> 00:41:47,540 S5: it was town against town as well, and it was 662 00:41:47,540 --> 00:41:51,700 S5: brother against brother and, and, and this you mentioned Emmeline, 663 00:41:51,700 --> 00:41:55,779 S5: who is the, this young woman who really, you know, 664 00:41:55,820 --> 00:41:58,020 S5: the brothers in some ways are the hook of Drummer Boy. 665 00:41:58,020 --> 00:42:01,220 S5: But I really feel as though Emmeline and Emmeline's relationship 666 00:42:01,219 --> 00:42:03,540 S5: with Jeremiah in many ways is the heart of it. 667 00:42:03,540 --> 00:42:07,240 S5: And it's this. It's this his woman who is instilled 668 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,040 S5: with this incredible biblical belief that there is no slave 669 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,959 S5: or free. Um, no no no no no no. Boy 670 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,399 S5: or girl. No. Slave or free. All in one. In 671 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,839 S5: Christ are we. And it's been passed down to her, uh, 672 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,520 S5: actually through Jeremiah, who sort of taught her to read 673 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:29,040 S5: as a youngster. And she is now on this sort of, um, 674 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:34,239 S5: mission to find, uh, her freedom. And what I love, too, 675 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:39,800 S5: is exploring this, uh, she's, she's, she's tragically outwardly enslaved, 676 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:45,680 S5: but she's so inwardly free. And yet you have these other, uh, characters. My, 677 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:50,560 S5: my character included Jeremiah, who's outwardly free but is inwardly 678 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,239 S5: so enslaved. Yes. And, uh, so dealing with some of 679 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,760 S5: these themes of what does it mean to, to, to 680 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:01,040 S5: in 2026, when you look at so much division and 681 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,430 S5: so much misunderstanding and so people ending up on opposite 682 00:43:04,430 --> 00:43:08,989 S5: sides of the battlefield and and, and enslaving each other 683 00:43:08,989 --> 00:43:11,390 S5: in a strange way. I just, I, there's so many things, 684 00:43:11,390 --> 00:43:14,230 S5: I think, to pull from in this modern day. 685 00:43:15,510 --> 00:43:17,509 S1: I want to ask one more question before we let 686 00:43:17,510 --> 00:43:20,630 S1: you go. And I saw an interview with you where 687 00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:24,470 S1: you said, I have had to work hard at understanding 688 00:43:24,469 --> 00:43:28,270 S1: my own voice. What do you mean by that? And 689 00:43:28,270 --> 00:43:30,589 S1: did that come out in this film and working behind 690 00:43:30,590 --> 00:43:33,069 S1: the scenes or in front of the cameras? 691 00:43:34,830 --> 00:43:35,230 S6: Yes. 692 00:43:35,270 --> 00:43:39,750 S5: Isn't it funny business. I feel like what one of 693 00:43:39,750 --> 00:43:42,870 S5: the other areas that this film really deals with is identity. 694 00:43:42,910 --> 00:43:46,670 S5: You know, the surface level is probably freedom and forgiveness. 695 00:43:46,710 --> 00:43:49,590 S5: And these these incredible attributes that I think are founded in, 696 00:43:49,750 --> 00:43:53,189 S5: in the Jesus way. But the deeper level that we're 697 00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:56,589 S5: all grappling with is our identity, right? Where is our identity? 698 00:43:56,590 --> 00:43:59,029 S5: And I think for me as a man, I, it's 699 00:43:59,270 --> 00:44:01,230 S5: a question I ask myself a lot. Like, where is 700 00:44:01,230 --> 00:44:05,330 S5: my identity he found, um, and I remember actually a 701 00:44:05,330 --> 00:44:08,569 S5: director friend of mine, John Irwin, um, when we were 702 00:44:08,610 --> 00:44:11,970 S5: sort of working on the script for this and he, 703 00:44:12,810 --> 00:44:16,890 S5: he made the comment, I was wrestling with my character, frankly, 704 00:44:16,890 --> 00:44:20,330 S5: and I said, who is this guy? And he said, well, 705 00:44:20,370 --> 00:44:24,690 S5: who are you? And it caused me to dive deep 706 00:44:24,690 --> 00:44:27,569 S5: into what motivates me. And, you know, I'm in the 707 00:44:27,570 --> 00:44:30,170 S5: middle of seven kids and I'm a bit of a rescuer. 708 00:44:30,210 --> 00:44:31,690 S5: Come to find out, I've got a bit of a 709 00:44:31,690 --> 00:44:36,330 S5: savior complex, come to find out. And so I really 710 00:44:37,650 --> 00:44:42,410 S5: appreciated writing that into Jeremiah. And like many of these characters, 711 00:44:42,850 --> 00:44:46,890 S5: all these songs, they, they sort of bounce back. They're 712 00:44:46,890 --> 00:44:49,529 S5: mirrors to you, you know, if you let them sort 713 00:44:49,570 --> 00:44:52,890 S5: of reveal things about them, about you, they reveal some 714 00:44:52,969 --> 00:44:57,530 S5: truths and, and, and even insufficiencies about yourself. And so I, 715 00:44:57,650 --> 00:44:59,569 S5: I felt that with this film, maybe more than any 716 00:44:59,570 --> 00:45:04,120 S5: other project, I felt it really revealed to me so 717 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,359 S5: many layers of who I am, you know, and who 718 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:07,960 S5: I hope to be in many ways. 719 00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,600 S1: Well, you also in another interview, you talked about control 720 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,720 S1: and how much you want control. And that can be good. 721 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,920 S1: You know, if you're doing a work of art and 722 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,120 S1: trying to corral all the actors and have a shared vision, 723 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,920 S1: but it has be a double edged sword as well. 724 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,400 S1: And I think you've walked that fine line with what 725 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,320 S1: I've been able to see here. You got to come back, though. 726 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,799 S1: We got to talk more about your life and your family. 727 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,799 S1: And I think you and your wife are going to 728 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,280 S1: be doing a film next year at some point. 729 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:40,040 S6: That's correct. 730 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,520 S1: Let's talk again. Okay. 731 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:42,520 S6: I would love. 732 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,920 S5: That. Chris, thank you for the time. Grab that gift, everyone. 733 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:46,880 S5: We'll see you in the cinemas on the sixth, seventh 734 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:47,440 S5: or eighth. 735 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:52,600 S1: Drummer boy is the film. It comes out next Friday 736 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,040 S1: and I'll give you the I wrote it down right here. 737 00:45:55,040 --> 00:46:03,060 S1: It's angel.com/drummer boy. All one word. And then gift means 738 00:46:03,060 --> 00:46:05,900 S1: if you buy a ticket, somebody else gets a ticket 739 00:46:05,900 --> 00:46:08,540 S1: and you can go, don't have to go alone. And 740 00:46:08,540 --> 00:46:11,859 S1: the film is Drummer Boy. Joel Smallbone has been with 741 00:46:11,860 --> 00:46:15,620 S1: us today. You probably know that song Drummer Boy. It 742 00:46:15,900 --> 00:46:19,580 S1: it play it all the time at Christmas. Uh, this 743 00:46:19,580 --> 00:46:22,140 S1: is kind of what they came up with in the 744 00:46:22,140 --> 00:46:26,380 S1: Revolutionary War with that theme. I think you got to 745 00:46:26,380 --> 00:46:30,580 S1: like it, I sure did. Go to chris.org. Scroll down. 746 00:46:30,580 --> 00:46:34,020 S1: You can see more about that featured resource and link, 747 00:46:34,060 --> 00:46:36,780 S1: as well as the book, the new one by Doctor 748 00:46:36,780 --> 00:46:42,580 S1: Charles Swindoll. Awakened by Grace, his life story again featured 749 00:46:42,580 --> 00:46:47,740 S1: resource at the website chris.org. Have a great Monday. Chris 750 00:46:47,780 --> 00:46:50,460 S1: Fabry Live is a production of Moody Radio, a Ministry 751 00:46:50,460 --> 00:46:52,300 S1: of Moody Bible Institute.