S1: As a ten year old girl, Liana watched Hitler's motorcade
S1: pass by her home in East Prussia. Within a few
S1: short months, her hometown was smoldering in ruins. But that
S1: was just the beginning of her troubles. Coming up, we'll
S1: talk with someone whose faith in Christ helped her survive
S1: the horror of Russian invasion and occupation from Moody Radio.
S1: This is the land and the book. Our host, noted
S1: Israel scholar Doctor Charlie Dyer. And I'm John Jaeger. Maybe
S1: you wonder, how do you share the gospel with a
S1: Jewish person? Because of cultural, historical, and religious differences, it's
S1: sometimes challenging to kind of navigate a gospel conversation with
S1: somebody from a Jewish background. You ever wondered, though, how
S1: the professionals do it?
S2: Yeah, you're right, John. In fact, to answer this question,
S2: our friends at Life and Messiah want to mail you
S2: samples of the tracks their staff use as they share
S2: the gospel. This will serve a dual purpose of equipping
S2: you with methods of presenting the gospel, and also supplying
S2: you with tracks you can share with your Jewish friends
S2: and neighbors. Life and Messiah's Prayer is that these tracks
S2: will help further the spread of the gospel among the
S2: Jewish people. Now, to receive this helpful assortment of tracks,
S2: all you need to do is visit Life in Messiah
S2: org and click on the Moody Radio button there for
S2: more information. That's Life in messiah.org. Don't miss out on
S2: this great opportunity.
S1: And now a look at current events from the Middle East.
S1: Story number one, Israel's war with Hamas continues. And now
S1: the world is concerned about a threatened war with Hezbollah.
S1: Help us grasp the bigger picture of what's actually happening
S1: and what might happen.
S2: Yeah, the war with Hamas continues, although it's at a
S2: slower pace. In fact, it seems to be winding down
S2: somewhat to satisfy the pressure from the US and other countries.
S2: Israel is being more deliberate, though they're still making progress.
S2: One key problem remains the hostages. Hamas knows this, and
S2: that's why they've been reluctant to reach a deal. Nearly
S2: 120 hostages remain, but only 50 or 60 are thought
S2: to still be alive. A second problem is the debate
S2: over what victory in Gaza actually looks like. Israel has
S2: said their goal is to destroy Hamas, but they can
S2: push to eliminate Hamas's leadership and render the different military battalions.
S2: They're incapable of being an effective fighting force. But as
S2: one Israeli military official remarked, actually destroying Hamas isn't possible
S2: because Hamas is an idea and it's an idea supported
S2: by most Palestinians. A different part of your group might
S2: be put in charge, but if they have the same
S2: Islamic ideology, then little will have really changed. The situation
S2: in the North with Hezbollah is more complicated, and that's
S2: reflected in the mixed messages coming out of the region.
S2: The US announced it's working to prevent an all out
S2: war between Israel and Hezbollah. But three days later, the
S2: US assured Israel of its support in the event of
S2: such a war. And then they announced that they'd be
S2: unlikely to help if Iran became involved. So what's really happening? Well,
S2: both Israel and Hezbollah are rattling their sabers, suggesting that
S2: if war comes, the other side will suffer greatly. And
S2: in one sense, that's true. If war comes, Israel will
S2: do everything it can to try to wipe out Hezbollah's
S2: military ability. On the other side, Hezbollah will try to
S2: knock out Israel's power generating stations, its water desalination plants,
S2: its military bases and airports and other vital infrastructure. And
S2: both Iran and the US remain the wild cards. To
S2: what extent would they enter the fight now? As a result,
S2: much of the saber rattling is an attempt to get
S2: the other side to back down. Neither really wants a war,
S2: at least not right now. Israel wants Hezbollah to move
S2: away from the border so its people can return there
S2: in the north. And Hezbollah wants the war in Gaza
S2: to end so that they can claim victory in their
S2: support of Hamas. Surprisingly, there is at least some reason
S2: for optimism. A look beyond all the headlines, and you
S2: can see that both sides have stayed within clearly defined
S2: red lines. Hezbollah has fired rockets into Galilee, but they've
S2: not fired their long range rockets toward Tel Aviv or
S2: other cities in Israel. And Israel hasn't launched a ground
S2: invasion into Lebanon. So while each side is making threats,
S2: neither has crossed certain red lines that would lead to
S2: all out war. The restraint is deliberate. Now. The situation
S2: could change very quickly and dramatically, but right now it
S2: seems as if neither side wants to be the first
S2: to launch that all out war.
S1: Charlie. Looking at the situation up north, it seems to
S1: me that until that whole thing with Hezbollah is resolved,
S1: there is going to be absolutely no return to tourism,
S1: at least in its, you know, fuller state.
S2: Well, it's interesting. There are there are tourists coming back.
S2: In fact, uh, the bus driver that I used that
S2: you know, so well, uh, sent me a picture of
S2: a group that was there touring in Israel. But, uh,
S2: the number of tours is limited, and, uh, right now
S2: the tours can't get up to. The border with Lebanon.
S2: So obviously the very far northern part of Israel is
S2: out of bounds.
S1: Well, story number two, Prime Minister Netanyahu's ruling coalition is
S1: in trouble. Can the current government survive or will Israel
S1: be forced into new elections?
S2: Yeah, the cracks in the current coalition are definitely widening.
S2: Benny Gantz pulled his faction out of the War Cabinet,
S2: and that was troubling. But it didn't cause the coalition
S2: to collapse. But other problems facing the government, though they
S2: might be less obvious, are very real and very dangerous
S2: for that coalition. The coalition failed to achieve a bill
S2: designed to give funds to Chasse, the religious party, to
S2: create jobs for its supporters. That caused a source from
S2: within Shas to declare the coalition's days are numbered. And
S2: then the High Court just this week issued a unanimous
S2: ruling saying the government must begin drafting ultra-Orthodox men into
S2: the Israeli Defense Force and discontinue funding draft eligible men
S2: studying at religious schools. Currently, there are over 60,000 ultra-Orthodox
S2: students exempt from military service. The ultra-Orthodox parties have in
S2: the past said this is a red line, and it
S2: could cause them to leave the government, at least as
S2: far as Netanyahu is going. He's been doing everything possible
S2: to keep all the coalition plates spinning. But the unity
S2: that appeared following the October 7th attacks seems to be
S2: rapidly falling away now. At some point, one of these
S2: issues will become so great that a coalition partner will bolt,
S2: joining the opposition in a vote of no confidence. And
S2: when that happens, new elections will have to be called. Now,
S2: that doesn't mean Netanyahu will be gone. He remains in
S2: charge until after the elections and until after a new
S2: coalition can be formed. And that can take a while,
S2: since they have to garner 61 seats together to form
S2: that coalition in the Knesset. But change does seem to
S2: be coming sooner rather than later.
S1: You're listening to The Land and the book from Moody Radio.
S1: Our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, noted Old Testament scholar, frequent
S1: Israel traveler. I'm John Geiger, working our way through a
S1: list of current events stories. Iran continues to push toward
S1: the development of nuclear weapons. Could the Middle East and
S1: the rest of the world be rushing toward nuclear war?
S2: Well, you know, I'm glad to be able to view
S2: these events through a biblical grid, no matter what circumstances
S2: might look like. We know God is in control. He
S2: does have a plan, and it does include a future
S2: for the nation of Israel. You know, that's not going
S2: to change, but from a human perspective, the world does
S2: seem to be getting more dangerous. Global spending on nuclear weapons.
S2: It was up 13% last year. The largest increase in
S2: spending was by the US, followed by China. Russia is
S2: reportedly revising its nuclear doctrine to make it easier to
S2: use its nuclear weapons in a conflict. Israel is most
S2: concerned about Iran because they believe Iran will use its
S2: nuclear weapons against Israel once they acquire them. Now, as
S2: a result, Israel has been modernizing its nuclear arsenal, even
S2: though they don't publicly acknowledge even having nuclear weapons. One
S2: report suggests Israel has the eighth largest stockpile of stored
S2: nuclear weapons, and that report said the number was 90.
S2: But a book written several years ago by Seymour Hersh
S2: suggests the number could be as high as 200 nuclear weapons.
S2: No one outside Israel, though, really knows. What does seem
S2: to be clear is that Israel has said it won't
S2: allow the Iranians to possess nuclear weapons, and that's more
S2: than just political rhetoric. Iran has built several of its
S2: nuclear facilities hundreds of feet underground to protect them against
S2: attack by Israel. But Israeli leaders have said no facility
S2: is beyond their ability to attack. So unless the US
S2: and the West force Iran to stop or step in
S2: to somehow stop them, we might learn. If Israel does
S2: have just such a plan.
S1: Well, imagine a mountain of salt as tall as Masada
S1: along the shore of the Dead Sea. That's actually a
S1: concern being voiced now by geologists over a plan to
S1: pile up excess salt from the Dead Sea. How serious
S1: is this problem? Or, Charlie, should we just kind of
S1: take these warnings with a grain of salt?
S2: Yeah, well, the headline does need to be taken with
S2: that so-called grain of salt. The Dead Sea is being
S2: mined for its chemicals, but the one chemical they don't
S2: really want is the salt. The companies in Israel and
S2: Jordan pump dead sea water into drying ponds at the
S2: southern end of the sea and then extract bromine, phosphate,
S2: magnesium and potash at what's left, which is common. Salt remains.
S2: And they throw it back and it sinks to the bottom.
S2: And the problem is the salt's been collecting at the
S2: bottom in that area at a rate of nearly eight
S2: inches a year, which has been raising the water level
S2: and threatening to flood the hotels along the shore. Starting
S2: in 2020, the government required the salt to be dredged
S2: from the seabed and returned to the northern part of
S2: the Dead Sea. Now they've been collecting it 16,000,000m³ of
S2: salt every year, but they still haven't worked out an
S2: approved plan for redepositing it. And in the meantime, it's
S2: piling up along the shore and near the northern end
S2: of that. Tongue of land that divides the Dead Sea
S2: in two. The head of the state's Israel Geological Survey
S2: claimed at a conference that in six years that mountain
S2: of salt could be not only visible from Masada, but
S2: would be as tall as Masada, which is 1400ft. Now,
S2: I don't want to minimize the problem because it does
S2: need to be resolved, but it seems there are ways
S2: to spread that salt out and not make that giant mountain.
S2: But in the meantime, if you travel to Israel, just beware.
S2: If your guide points to a large pile of salt
S2: near Masada and says it's the pillar of salt from
S2: God's judgment on lot's wife, uh, it's not quite that old.
S1: Much more to come in today's program, including a conversation
S1: next with a lady who remembers Hitler's motorcade passing by.
S1: All ahead on the land. And the book. As a
S1: ten year old girl, Leona Gudat watched Hitler's motorcade pass
S1: by their home in Insterburg, East Prussia. Within a few
S1: short months, Insterburg was smoldering in ruins when Leona's mother
S1: and her four children scrambled over bricks, broken glass and
S1: scorched beams. Why? To escape the ravages of World War two.
S1: Stay listening for the story of a German girl in
S1: war torn Europe who moves from fear to freedom. Hey,
S1: welcome to segment two of the land and the book
S1: I'm John Gager. If we've never met before, I cannot
S1: wait to introduce you to today's guest. But first, here's
S1: a way to put a spotlight on Jesus as you
S1: interact with a Jewish friend. The Old Testament is rich
S1: with prophecy. How much of that, though, can you really
S1: talk about in a conversation with your Jewish friend? For example,
S1: what about Daniel's prophecies concerning the Maccabees and the events
S1: of Hanukkah? Roy Schwartz is with Chosen People Ministries. Are
S1: we on safe ground talking about this kind of stuff?
S3: Sure. For a Gentile to know about Hanukkah. Are you
S3: kidding me? Especially to know that it was spoken of
S3: by the Jewish prophet Daniel. Don't get into the New
S3: Testament necessarily. Just talk about the reality that God, through
S3: the prophet Daniel, foreshadowed and foresaw the actual events of
S3: Antiochus and the events of Hanukkah. Now, most Christians don't
S3: know that, but I suggest you study that and see
S3: how Daniel and Hanukkah fit together, and that will blow
S3: the mind of a Jewish person that you are interested
S3: in those things. All right.
S1: So maybe we need to do a little work on
S1: our own history and then reach out and share those
S1: prophecies from Daniel as a tool to bridge into the
S1: life of your unsaved Jewish friend. Roy Schwartz is with
S1: chosen People Ministries. Always a pleasure to have him in
S1: the studio. Leona Brown survived the Russian occupation of her
S1: hometown in World War Two. She's been a mentor to
S1: thousands since then, faithfully teaching that God is a refuge
S1: to those striving to move from fear to freedom. Using
S1: her personal story of how her family found Christ relevant
S1: during wartime. She inspires eager listeners to find Jesus as
S1: their all sufficient source of strength. She's written several books,
S1: including Refuge and From Fear to Freedom. It's a great
S1: honor to welcome you to the land and the book, Leona.
S4: Thank you so much.
S1: When the drama of World War Two unfolded, you were
S1: living in Insterburg, East Prussia. Put that on a modern
S1: map for us.
S4: East Prussia was an area that was German and it
S4: was bordering Russia. On today's map, it's no longer called
S4: East Prussia. It's called Lithuania, Russia and Poland.
S1: Well, that had to be quite a moment. Watching Hitler's
S1: motorcade passing by directly in front of your home. What
S1: do you recall?
S4: I don't recall a lot of jubilant people, everybody with
S4: their arms raised to give the Hitler welcome to Hitler himself.
S4: I was standing there and thinking, oh, in a short
S4: time I will be joining the Hitler Youth. I could
S4: not wait to become one of Hitler's chosen young people,
S4: because I was looking forward to the wonderful sports festivals
S4: stretching my muscles for my leader. He told me he
S4: loves me and I was brainwashed to sing love songs
S4: to him. That's what I was dreaming about. But that
S4: song in my heart and mind changed later. Hmm.
S1: What was the turning point for that change when you
S1: realized the truth?
S4: The turning point for the change was when we had
S4: to leave our hometown. Why did we have to leave it?
S4: Because the bombs were falling. I had no clue why,
S4: but they were dropping on loved ones. Folks from church,
S4: church folks were dying. I had no idea why all
S4: of this was going on. And slowly things started to change.
S4: We had to leave our town finally with my grandma
S4: and ended up not too far from Berlin, a little
S4: town called Lipina. Now it's Poland. And on the last
S4: day of school in that part of Poland, I was
S4: not fast enough for the teacher to get up and
S4: give the Heil Hitler salute in class. The teacher called
S4: me forward in front of the whole class and slapped
S4: my face so hard that the fingerprints were left on
S4: my cheeks for days. Wow. That was my last day
S4: of school under the Hitler regime.
S1: They were the last representatives of a town of 5000 residents.
S1: All others had been murdered, forced to flee or starve
S1: to death. Leona Brown's story unfolds today on the land
S1: in the book where we have traveled to the Everlasting
S1: Nation Museum in Chattanooga. All this time. Are you a
S1: believer in Jesus?
S4: Not yet, but I have the most wonderful examples ahead
S4: of me and with me and around me. My mom,
S4: for instance, my dad had been drafted into the German
S4: army in 1939 already, so we were separated from him
S4: in 1944 for five, six years already. And the adults
S4: all around me, when things were in such turmoil, nobody
S4: knew where the loved ones were still living, whether they
S4: were dead, where they were. There was peace, peace, calmness.
S4: And I saw all of that in their souls, and
S4: I knew there was something different about it. And I
S4: was still fearful when my mom took us four children
S4: into the corner of a couch or a room full
S4: of 29 people and prayed, Lord Jesus, take all of us.
S4: Don't let one of my children remain behind. That made
S4: me perk up. Let all of us. I didn't really
S4: know what she meant. Did that mean I could die
S4: for a mom to pray that prayer? Yes.
S1: And when did you understand that Jesus needed to be
S1: your Savior, not just something that your mom was interested in?
S4: Exactly. That didn't come until several years later when we
S4: were in West Germany already.
S1: Well, let's talk about that. For 16 months, you lived
S1: under Russian occupation. Your family was among the last. The
S1: others had been murdered. How did you survive?
S4: Number one prayer. The adults in our home prayed. It
S4: was very dangerous for women, especially to be outside among
S4: the Russian. Troops after they had invaded that part of
S4: Germany because they were on their way to Berlin to
S4: get Hitler as quickly as they possibly could. And then
S4: my brother and I, we were the chosen ones to
S4: go out and see, scrounge around abandoned farms for something edible.
S4: We found abandoned areas on farms where potatoes laid in
S4: for the winter. We brought them home and my mom
S4: fixed them soup. So how did we live? I don't
S4: really know. I just knew it was a miracle. But
S4: the greatest miracle was when the gentleman who took us
S4: in a stranger, we had never seen him here was
S4: a mom with four kids, and an elderly grandma took
S4: us into his home. He lived by himself, and he
S4: would usually get a certain amount of potatoes rolled in
S4: from the street right into his basement, and he got
S4: the bill from the farmer, and he said, I didn't
S4: order two batches of potatoes for the whole winter. And
S4: he said, well, that's what you have now. You have
S4: to use them. And that was the start of our
S4: not starving right away. And for my mom not getting
S4: boiled on her legs and for my brother not having
S4: boils on his legs and for our swollen bellies, that
S4: was a start of a great miracle. The whole survival
S4: was a miracle. Also, when my brother got a little
S4: pig's head from a Russian at one time. Oh, that
S4: was soup for days and days, huh?
S1: Well, imagine surviving 16 months under Russian occupation during World
S1: War Two. Today, on the land in the book, we
S1: have traveled to the Everlasting Nation Museum. It's our honor
S1: to visit with Liana Brown. Describe some of the brutal
S1: treatment that you observed or maybe even experienced.
S4: I'm glad you said some of them because most of
S4: the time we spent in that little farmhouse was just
S4: a time of fear. Fear. The Russians would come in
S4: ready to shoot anybody putting a pistol on my mom's
S4: forehead in front of us kids. Stalin had given the
S4: command to misuse every German female age didn't matter. So
S4: the women were always trying to hide. My mom and
S4: her sister in law ran into the outhouse in the
S4: little farm courtyard. As the preacher was doing some work
S4: in the courtyard. He was in his late 70s. I
S4: looked out of the kitchen window and here was this
S4: soldier with a sword right above the preacher. That was
S4: a scary moment. Another scary moment was when the war
S4: was finally over. My mom had dared go to Berlin
S4: with lots of other folks. Yes, to find out if
S4: my dad was still alive. When she came back, she
S4: was taken captive by two Russians. They came and held
S4: their guns and her back. That was a scary moment
S4: for me, because.
S1: You were there at that train station to meet her.
S4: I was there to meet her, and the two Russian
S4: soldiers came and whisked her away. And she said, no, no,
S4: my children, my children, I want my children. And they
S4: kept pushing her with their rifles toward a dungeon, a
S4: literal dungeon. My mom turned around, but this is my
S4: daughter's birthday. It was my 12th birthday. She was thrown
S4: into a Russian jail. We had no idea whether we
S4: would ever see her again, but the Lord took over.
S4: He blessed her testimony there as she was pushed into.
S4: This was January in Germany. It gets pretty cold, but
S4: she was trying to be a comforter to those who
S4: were in that same dungeon.
S1: What was the lowest point of this experience? As you
S1: look back a moment when you said, this is so awful,
S1: I really don't think we're going to make it the
S1: lowest moment.
S4: Oh, I was on the road with my brother again
S4: and the Russian saw me. And as I mentioned before,
S4: Stalin's command, he was beginning to chase me down, running
S4: after me. I heard the gun clicking, clicking, clicking. And
S4: I thought, this is the end, this is the end.
S4: And I ran faster and faster and faster. And even
S4: at that time, even though I was not yet a
S4: born again Christian, the Lord gave me good legs and
S4: I could outrun the rapist.
S1: And you did, I did.
S4: I'm here.
S1: Your family managed to survive and was reunited. What was
S1: that moment like?
S4: Well, after 16 months of living a fearful life constantly
S4: from morning till night, we escaped and ended up in Berlin.
S4: And you American people gave us some soup to eat. Oh,
S4: what a joy. We went farther into West Germany and
S4: lived in a refugee camp. My dad. Where was he?
S4: My mom had found out in the meantime through a
S4: postcard that he wrote. That was a sign of life.
S4: Because for three years, my mom didn't know whether he
S4: was alive and he didn't know whether we were alive.
S4: And the day of the reunion came seven and a
S4: half years later in a refugee camp. We had one
S4: little room, two bunk beds with straw, of course. And
S4: my mom was sleeping on a cot. And when my
S4: dad finally came home, there was no room for him
S4: to even sleep in our room. He had to sleep
S4: in a public hallway right across from the public restrooms.
S4: But the joy of my mom and us four kids
S4: in this refugee camp, we lived for another several years.
S1: Eventually, you made it to the United States, where there
S1: are a growing number of believers today who believe that
S1: persecution is coming here. Do you agree? And does today's
S1: America feel a bit to you like the prelude to
S1: World War two?
S4: Well, I see what's coming here. There's a lot of
S4: fear in people. They fear this. They fear that persecution
S4: is beginning to start. Pro-lifers are no longer liked athletes
S4: who give a clear testimony of knowing the Lord Jesus
S4: Christ personally are shunned. Yes, there is persecution. I don't
S4: know if there was any persecution before that in East Prussia,
S4: but I know 76 preachers in our area were thrown
S4: into a concentration camp.
S1: If you had 30s to speak to every believer in America,
S1: what would you want them to hear from you?
S4: I would say I thank the Lord for having given me,
S4: my family and me true freedom in this country in
S4: preparation for any war or anything that might be coming up.
S4: There is a must for every human being because God
S4: gave His Son to die on Calvary's cross, and he
S4: did that for every single person, for you and for me.
S4: And if you tell me, oh, I'm a good church member,
S4: I do all these good deeds. I must be going
S4: to heaven. Are you sure you're going to go that way? No,
S4: you can't be, because that's not the truth. The truth is,
S4: we have to say, Lord Jesus, I'm a sinner. Please
S4: come into my heart and save me and mean it
S4: and live for God and for Christ, and have this
S4: faith should the bad days come in this country.
S1: Lianna Brown what a story. From fear to freedom. There's
S1: a link to her books at our web site, the
S1: land and the book. Org. Looking forward to a visit
S1: with Charlie Dyer. He's got answers to your Bible questions
S1: next here on the land and the book. If you're
S1: a regular listener to the land of the book, you
S1: know what this next segment is all about. And if
S1: you're new, well, let me share it with you. I'm
S1: John Gager and our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, has his
S1: Bible open. Why? Because you have sent in questions via email,
S1: and we're here to answer those questions. Charlie, before we
S1: get to our first question of the day, something we
S1: should all be thinking about, how do you share the
S1: gospel with a Jewish person? Because of cultural, historical, and
S1: religious differences, it's sometimes challenging to navigate a gospel conversation
S1: with somebody from a Jewish background. Maybe you've wondered how
S1: the professionals do it. Yeah, and.
S2: To answer that question, our friends at Life and Messiah
S2: want to mail you samples of the tracks their staff
S2: use as they share the gospel. These will serve a
S2: dual purpose. They'll equip you with methods of presenting the gospel,
S2: and also supply you with tracks you can share with
S2: your Jewish friends and neighbors. Life in Messiah's Prayer is
S2: that these tracks will help further the spread of the
S2: gospel among the Jewish people. To receive this helpful assortment
S2: of tracks, all you need to do is visit life
S2: in Messiah org and click on the Moody Radio button
S2: there for more information. That's Life in messiah.org. Don't miss
S2: out on this great opportunity.
S1: All right, we'll kick off today's Q&A session with one
S1: from my wife Diana, who says, in my Bible study
S1: we were discussing heaven, specifically eternal rewards. And my question is,
S1: when we get to heaven, we get crowns to lay
S1: at Jesus feet. But is there a time of accountability?
S1: Are we held accountable for, say, missed opportunities? And will
S1: there really be rewards?
S2: Yeah, and three groups of passages come to mind. And
S2: the first is Paul's letter to the Corinthians. In first
S2: Corinthians three, Paul talks about our building on the foundation
S2: of Christ that he laid, and he divides the kind
S2: of work we do into gold, silver, precious stones, meaning
S2: good things, and wood, hay, stubble, which are not. And
S2: he makes it clear that this doesn't determine our salvation,
S2: but it does relate to rewards for faithfulness. And he
S2: seems to come back to this same idea of rewards
S2: or lack of rewards later in Second Corinthians 510. Now
S2: the second passage that comes to mind is Colossians three.
S2: In verses 24 and 25, there Paul talks about our
S2: receiving the inheritance as our reward. The third that comes
S2: to mind is first Timothy 617 to 19, where Paul
S2: talks about storing up treasures for ourselves by doing good.
S2: Now I see this being similar to Jesus's words in
S2: Luke 12, where he talks about storing up treasures for
S2: ourselves in heaven. I think we'll appear before the Bema
S2: Seat judgment of Jesus to give an account of our
S2: faithfulness while here on earth. It has nothing to do
S2: with our salvation, but it will impact our future reward
S2: and service for eternity. We'll have different places of service
S2: in the Millennial Kingdom. The apostles were told they would
S2: sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel,
S2: and I used to teach my students this way. I'd
S2: say it's somewhat tongue in cheek, that someday someone's going
S2: to be in charge of running the city of Chicago
S2: during the millennium, and someone else might be in charge
S2: of running the dog pound. And depending on how faithful
S2: we were here in this life.
S1: Well, Charlie, you know, having said that, is it not
S1: possible that the verse that says he will wipe away
S1: all tears from their eyes? Is there a connect point there?
S1: Because we'll say, hmm, I guess I really blew it.
S1: You know, I didn't invest eternally as I ought to have.
S1: Or am I reading too far into it?
S2: No, I think you're exactly right. I think that the
S2: fact that he wipes tears from our eyes says that
S2: we won't have kind of a remorse. But I think
S2: when it happens, we'll go. This is fair. I got
S2: exactly what I deserve. And yes, I did fail in
S2: what I should have done for.
S1: Christ, Pat says. I have read in various commentaries that
S1: the Apostle Paul was released from his imprisonment in Rome
S1: and traveled on, as was his plan to a missionary
S1: journey to Spain. Then later on in his return to Rome,
S1: he was imprisoned a second time, which ended up in
S1: his execution. But I've read elsewhere, however, that Paul was
S1: never released from his imprisonment in Rome. Is there a
S1: reliable church tradition that verifies Paul was indeed imprisoned in
S1: Rome twice?
S2: Even better than the church tradition? I think the Bible
S2: helps us answer this question. You know, Luke gives us
S2: a very detailed itinerary of Paul's travels in the different
S2: missionary journeys in the book of acts, but there are
S2: points in some things Paul says in his letters that
S2: don't match up with the book of acts. For example, Philemon,
S2: verse 22, Paul writes one more thing prepare a guest
S2: room for me, because I hope to be restored to
S2: you and answer to your prayers. Well, Paul never visited
S2: Colossae during his missionary journey, but he was planning on
S2: doing so. Evidently, according to that verse in first Timothy
S2: one verse three, Paul says to Timothy, I urged you
S2: when I went to Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus, so
S2: that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrine.
S2: But there was never a time in the book of
S2: acts when Paul left Timothy in Ephesus, while he traveled
S2: on into Macedonia, and then in Titus one five, Paul wrote,
S2: the reason I left you in Crete was. And then
S2: he gives an explanation. But he never stopped or ministered
S2: in Crete. He only passed through on his way to Rome,
S2: on as a prisoner on the ship. And it tells
S2: me that Paul likely visited Colossae, and that he certainly
S2: visited Ephesus again, leaving Timothy there and Crete leaving Titus there.
S2: And one final detail Paul wrote the book of Romans
S2: from Corinth toward the end of. His third missionary journey,
S2: and in Romans 15 he told him he hoped to
S2: visit Rome while passing through on his way to Spain.
S2: That suggests he had a plan to preach the gospel
S2: there in Spain. Now, if I put all that together,
S2: I suspect when Paul was released from prison in Rome,
S2: he traveled first to Spain. He then went back to
S2: Crete and Ephesus, where he also went inland and visited Colossae.
S2: And then he left Titus in Ephesus and traveled to
S2: Troas and on to Philippi. And somewhere in Macedonia is
S2: likely where he was arrested for the second time, and
S2: then taken to Rome, not even having time to go
S2: back and retrieve his cloak, which he then tells Timothy
S2: to bring to him in Rome.
S1: Why do you think Luke left us hanging at the
S1: end of acts? One scholar suggests that perhaps Luke died
S1: before Paul was brought before Nero. Do you think that's plausible?
S1: Is there any reliable church tradition that gives us additional information?
S2: Yeah, well, I think the reason Luke ended the book
S2: of acts as he did, was to show the gospel
S2: had arrived in Rome, which at that time was the
S2: center of the Gentile universe. The book of Luke and
S2: acts together are something like a funnel. You know, Luke
S2: moves from starting with the decree of Caesar from Rome,
S2: all the way down to the events in Jerusalem, with
S2: the death and resurrection of Jesus. And the book of
S2: Acts then begins in Jerusalem and describes the impact of
S2: Christ's death and resurrection until it arrives back in Rome
S2: at the end of acts. So Luke stopped in Rome
S2: because it was the equivalent of saying the gospel had
S2: now reached the world in terms of Luke dying before
S2: Paul appeared before Nero. I can say for certain, Luke
S2: hadn't died before Paul was brought before Nero. And I
S2: say that because of two verses in second Timothy. In
S2: second Timothy 411, Paul says, only Luke is with me,
S2: describing his final time in Rome. And then in verses
S2: 16 to 17 he describes his appearing before Nero. So
S2: Luke was with Paul right up to the very end,
S2: and I find that really encouraging.
S1: It's the land and the book from Moody Radio, our host,
S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer. I'm John Jaeger, loving your questions. This
S1: one from Bernie. Hebrews nine verse four refers to the
S1: altar of incense as being located within the Holy of
S1: Holies with the Ark of the covenant in Exodus 30,
S1: verse six, the incense altar is described as being in
S1: front of the curtain by the ark of the testimony.
S1: How do we reconcile these differences?
S2: Yeah, there are several possible explanations, but the one I
S2: personally prefer is having the word translated golden altar in
S2: Hebrews nine verse four, understood as referring to a golden
S2: censer like the censer. Aaron and later High Priest, filled
S2: with incense and coals from that altar, and then took
S2: inside the veil to the Holy of Holies on the
S2: Day of Atonement. In Leviticus 1612 and 13, Aaron was
S2: to take that censer full of burning coals from the
S2: altar before the Lord, and take him behind the curtain.
S2: While the Greek word used in Hebrews nine normally refers
S2: to the altar of incense, that same Greek word is
S2: used to refer to a censor in the Septuagint translation
S2: of Ezekiel eight and in Second Chronicles 26. In the
S2: same way, I believe the word in Hebrews nine can
S2: be understood to refer to a censer rather than just
S2: the altar of incense. I believe it is clear in
S2: the Old Testament that the altar of incense was located
S2: outside the veil, but on the day of Atonement, coals
S2: from that altar, along with the incense that would normally
S2: be placed on that altar, were brought into the Holy
S2: of Holies before God's presence above the cherubim on the
S2: mercy seat. So in that sense, the incense censer, functioning
S2: in the same way as the altar that is representing
S2: the prayers of God's people before the Lord was indeed
S2: brought inside the Holy of Holies.
S1: Brian says. Isaiah 40, verse 22 mentions the circle of
S1: the earth. Was this a reference to the spherical shape
S1: of our world? Of course, the secular humanists would try
S1: to explain this away somehow, but please give me your opinion.
S2: Yeah, I don't believe it's a reference to the spherical
S2: shape of the earth. It makes perfect sense if we
S2: just realize how people in that day viewed the world
S2: using their own human senses. Now, if you've ever stood
S2: on a flat plane, like, like in the Midwest, or
S2: when I lived in Texas for years, or on a
S2: high mountain and then looked out on the horizon, well,
S2: the earth has a circular appearance. That is, you can
S2: turn in 360 degrees and you can see the horizon
S2: all the way around. So it appears to be a
S2: complete circle with the sky then stretched out above like
S2: a dome. And the people in that day then watched
S2: the movement of the sun, the moon, the stars as
S2: they circled overhead. And as a result, in this passage,
S2: I believe Isaiah is describing the world as it was
S2: perceived by those in his day to help them understand
S2: the grandeur of God. God sits above the circle or
S2: vault of the earth and stretches out the heavens like
S2: a curtain. Now, compared to such a god, the human rulers,
S2: he goes on to say, who were threatening Israel are
S2: insignificant in their power. Now, one last detail. Some might say, well,
S2: that's rather unscientific to describe creation that way, but I
S2: don't see that as a problem since we do exactly
S2: the same thing. You know, my smartphone tells me the
S2: exact minute for sunrise and sunset each day. But of course,
S2: we know the sun doesn't technically rise or set in
S2: a scientific sense. It's the Earth's rotation around that gives
S2: the appearance of the sun rising. Yet we still. Use
S2: that same kind of terminology because it describes what appears
S2: to happen from our own human perspective. Now, that's similar
S2: to what Isaiah was doing in using the terminology that
S2: was in place in his own day.
S1: Last question will the saints who die during the tribulation
S1: come back with Christ to fight in the battle of Armageddon?
S2: Well, according to revelation 24, the answer is no. Jesus
S2: returns to earth in revelation 19, and then revelation 20 says,
S2: and I saw the souls of those who had been
S2: beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and they come
S2: to life and reign with Christ a thousand years. So
S2: it appears that the martyred tribulation saints are not resurrected
S2: until after Jesus returns.
S1: Interesting question. And there's more to come. Charlie's devotional. It's
S1: next here on Moody Radio's The Land and the book.
S1: So are you a big 4th of July fan? I'll
S1: never forget when our first granddaughter came along. She described
S1: it Charlie as 4th July, 4th July. And I understand, though,
S1: that not the 4th of July, but somebody else's proclamation
S1: of liberty is very much in the focus of your
S1: devotional today.
S2: It is today, John. All right.
S1: Leviticus 2510 is where we're headed. You say, what's that
S1: got to do with proclaiming liberty? You'll find out after
S1: this Holy Land experience.
S5: Hi, I'm Kathleen. I've read so many times of the
S5: Exodus and Moses trekking through the desert, and I pictured
S5: this flat surface. And guess what? Now I know why
S5: all the Jews complained. Yeah, that ground is anything but level.
S5: It just is such a horrible trek. I don't know
S5: how they did it for 40 years.
S6: Hi, my name is Lynn and my Holy Land experience
S6: was an awakening to me. I always thought that the
S6: wilderness was a flat, plain, dry and just very desolate.
S6: But when we were at the Wadi Kilte and I
S6: saw those hills up and down, and I thought to myself,
S6: you know, that's so much like life. You have the
S6: mountaintop experiences, the low valleys where you run into problems.
S6: But God is with you all the time, molding you,
S6: shaping you to do his will.
S1: All right, Charlie, I'm looking forward to hearing what you've
S1: got to say about proclaiming liberty in your devotional today.
S2: Well, thanks, John. Well, this coming week, Americans celebrate the
S2: 4th of July, the day in 1776 when the Continental
S2: Congress adopted the Declaration of Independence. You know, in Canada,
S2: this week also marks Canada Day, the day Britain made
S2: Canada a self-governing dominion within the British Empire. Now, growing
S2: up in Pennsylvania, I made my pilgrimage to Philadelphia to
S2: visit Independence Hall and the Liberty Bell, and I learned
S2: that Independence Hall was originally the Pennsylvania State House. In fact,
S2: it wasn't until 1824, when the now elderly French Revolutionary
S2: War hero Marquis de Lafayette returned to Philadelphia and referred
S2: to the building as the House of independence, and that's
S2: when the current name gained popularity. The Liberty Bell has
S2: a similar history. The Bell was originally commissioned to commemorate
S2: the 50th anniversary of William Penn's Charter of Privileges, the
S2: state's original constitution, and there were three versions of the bell.
S2: The first version, imported from England, cracked when it was
S2: originally rung shortly after being hung in 1753. It was
S2: then melted down and a second version was recast later
S2: that spring, but no one was pleased with how it sounded,
S2: so the local foundry melted it down and tried a
S2: third time, but that sound was still disappointing. Another bell
S2: was brought from England, but it didn't sound any better.
S2: So the original bell, now in its third version, is
S2: what remained in place. The crack in the bell didn't
S2: happen when the bell sounded to announce the signing of
S2: the Declaration of Independence. Hairline cracks had appeared over time,
S2: but the major crack that made the bell unusable happened
S2: in 1846, when it was rung to celebrate Washington's birthday.
S2: But by then it had also taken on a new name.
S2: The bell was originally simply called the Statehouse bell, but
S2: it was used as a cover drawing in an 1837
S2: edition of an anti-slavery magazine, and it was the abolitionists
S2: who named it the Liberty Bell, in large part because
S2: of the inscription written on it. And that lengthy introduction
S2: now brings me to my message for today. The inscription
S2: on the Liberty Bell is a quotation from the King
S2: James Version of Leviticus 2510 proclaim liberty throughout all the
S2: land onto all the inhabitants thereof. The abolitionists saw in
S2: this quote a biblical injunction to free all slaves and prisoners,
S2: and their name for the bell stuck. But that leads
S2: us to a book of the Bible that's uncharted territory
S2: for many believers today. Leviticus, with its detailed emphasis on offerings,
S2: purification rituals, festivals and numerous other regulations, seems almost overwhelming
S2: to church age saints. And in many ways that's sad,
S2: because even though the church is not Israel, nor are
S2: we under the law, yet, Leviticus has much to say
S2: about practical holiness. It helps us understand what it means
S2: to live in a way that reflects God's holiness. One
S2: practical aspect of all this is God's proclamation of the
S2: year of Jubilee in Leviticus 25. Every seventh year was
S2: to be a sabbatical year when the people were to
S2: let the land lie fallow. But immediately after the seventh
S2: of these sabbatical years, spanning a cycle of 49 years,
S2: God then announced a jubilee year, consecrate the 50th year,
S2: and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants.
S2: It shall be a jubilee for you. Each one of
S2: you is to return to his family property, and each
S2: to his own clan. At first this additional year sounds
S2: like a year of hardship. Do not so, and do
S2: not reap what grows of itself or harvest the untended vines,
S2: for it is a jubilee and is to be holy
S2: for you. Eat only what is taken directly from the
S2: fields for two years in a row. Israel isn't to
S2: sow seed or tend its vines. They could only eat
S2: what they had stored up before or what grew of
S2: itself during that period. In essence, God called on the
S2: people once every generation to exercise the supreme test of
S2: obedience and trust. Can you trust God to meet your
S2: physical needs for two years, and God did promise to
S2: meet those needs. I will send you such a blessing
S2: in the sixth year that the land will yield enough
S2: for three years. The year of Jubilee wasn't simply about
S2: trusting God to meet their needs. It was also a
S2: time for people to return to their own property. That is,
S2: those who had been forced to sell their land because
S2: of financial necessity were now to have their land returned.
S2: In essence, those who had bought the land weren't actually
S2: buying it. They were just buying the number of crops
S2: it would produce until the next year of Jubilee. God
S2: was very clear on the issue of land ownership. The
S2: land must not be sold permanently because the land is
S2: mine and you are but aliens and my tenants. God
S2: also provided strict laws when it came to selling someone
S2: into slavery. If one of your countrymen becomes poor among
S2: you and sells himself to you, do not make him
S2: work as a slave. He is to be treated as
S2: a hired worker or a temporary resident among you. He
S2: is to work for you until the year of Jubilee.
S2: Then he and his children are to be restored. He
S2: will go. To his own clan and to the property
S2: of his forefathers. Slavery is commonly practiced in that day
S2: was not to be practiced by Israel. The year of
S2: jubilee guaranteed freedom. History tells us that Israel struggled to
S2: obey these regulations. In Jeremiah 34, the prophet described a
S2: time of extreme distress when King Zedekiah made a covenant
S2: with all the people in Jerusalem to proclaim freedom for
S2: the slaves. Everyone was to free his Hebrew slaves, both
S2: male and female. No one was to hold a fellow
S2: Jew in bondage. So all the officials and people who
S2: entered into this covenant agreed that they would free their
S2: male and female slaves and no longer hold them in bondage.
S2: They agreed and set them free. But afterward they changed
S2: their minds and took back the slaves they had freed
S2: and enslaved them again. And God judged the people for
S2: their disobedience. You have not obeyed me. You have not
S2: proclaimed freedom for your fellow countrymen. So I now proclaim
S2: freedom for you, declares the Lord. Freedom to fall by
S2: the sword and plague and famine. God used the sabbatical
S2: years and the year of jubilee as object lessons for
S2: his people. Practical examples of what it meant to walk
S2: by faith, trusting God and treat others with dignity and respect.
S2: And it was no accident that the year of Jubilee
S2: began as the Day of Atonement was ending. Have the
S2: trumpets sounded everywhere on the 10th day of the seventh month,
S2: on the Day of Atonement, sound the trumpet throughout your land.
S2: The Day of Atonement was God's provision for sin, and
S2: it's followed immediately by a trumpet blast announcing the start
S2: of the 50th year, the year of Jubilee, to proclaim
S2: liberty throughout the land. John Peter Lange perhaps focused on
S2: that connection when he wrote the proclamation of Freedom was
S2: the most appropriate. Just after the great reconciliation of the
S2: people with God had been symbolically completed. There's so much
S2: more we could say. But what does the 4th of July,
S2: the Liberty Bell, and Leviticus 2510 have to do with
S2: you this coming week? How about this? God has set
S2: us free from the penalty and power of sin in
S2: our lives. He's given us spiritual liberty, and yet we
S2: still find ourselves struggling, just like Israel did when they
S2: weren't allowed to plant or harvest for an additional year.
S2: But God says to us, just like he said to them,
S2: trust me and follow my instructions. I will go before
S2: you and meet your needs. And throughout this journey, I
S2: will teach you lessons that can only be learned this way. Or,
S2: as the songwriter put it, trust and obey, for there's
S2: no other way to be happy in Jesus but to
S2: trust and obey. Do so and you will discover true liberty.
S1: Thank you Charlie, very appropriate, very seasonal and as always,
S1: very biblical. Really appreciate that. Well, you know, we would
S1: love it if you'd share an email with us. Let
S1: us know how the broadcast is impacting your life. Making
S1: a difference for you. Why don't you connect with us
S1: at The Land and the book at Moody Dot Edu?
S1: That's the land and the book@moody.edu. And we encourage you
S1: to visit our website at the Land and the book.org
S1: for Danny Anderson, our producer, Charlie Dyer, our host, I'm
S1: John Gager, thanking you for listening to The Land and
S1: the book, a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of
S1: Moody Bible Institute.