1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,160 S1: The following program was pre-recorded so our phone lines are 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:08,959 S1: not open. 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,119 S2: My taxes help to support the public institutions which I 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,480 S2: have mentioned and they cost enough. Those who are badly 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,480 S2: off must go there. Many can't go there and many 6 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,960 S2: would rather die if they would rather die. Perhaps they 7 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:27,160 S2: had better do so and decrease the surplus population. Surely 8 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,200 S2: you don't mean that, sir? With all my heart. 9 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:34,400 S3: Merry Christmas. I'm Rob West. That was Ebenezer Scrooge in 10 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,319 S3: Charles Dickens A Christmas Carol. There's a message hidden in 11 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,879 S3: that exchange, and Jerry Boyer will let us in on 12 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,120 S3: the secret today. And we're prerecorded. So please hold your 13 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,880 S3: calls until we're back in the studio. This is faith 14 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:56,080 S3: and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well, 15 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,200 S3: Jerry Boyer is our resident economist here at Faith fi 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,670 S3: and the president of Boyer Research. He's also the author 17 00:01:02,670 --> 00:01:06,030 S3: of The Maker and the Takers What Jesus Really Said 18 00:01:06,030 --> 00:01:10,190 S3: About Social Justice and Economics. Jerry, great to have you back. 19 00:01:10,390 --> 00:01:13,110 S4: Always a pleasure. Was that George C Scott? Was that 20 00:01:13,110 --> 00:01:15,390 S4: the George C Scott version that you just played? 21 00:01:15,390 --> 00:01:17,310 S3: It sure was. Absolutely. 22 00:01:17,630 --> 00:01:18,510 S4: That's a good one. 23 00:01:19,430 --> 00:01:22,110 S3: It sure was. Well, I'm looking forward to this a 24 00:01:22,110 --> 00:01:25,510 S3: little different. Jerry, we're doing a movie review and, uh, 25 00:01:25,550 --> 00:01:29,630 S3: most of us have heard or read that exchange between 26 00:01:29,630 --> 00:01:34,310 S3: Scrooge and the arms collectors many times, so I'm looking 27 00:01:34,310 --> 00:01:38,430 S3: forward to hearing your insights. Jerry, what have we been missing? 28 00:01:38,950 --> 00:01:42,870 S4: Well, we've been missing is the extreme importance of that 29 00:01:42,870 --> 00:01:47,309 S4: phrase surplus population. Uh, because we don't happen to be 30 00:01:47,310 --> 00:01:51,270 S4: in the in the mindset of the early mid 1800s. 31 00:01:51,550 --> 00:01:55,070 S4: So when we have conversations in our time, if we 32 00:01:55,110 --> 00:01:59,380 S4: hear someone say zero population growth, we know what that means. Yeah. 33 00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:03,540 S4: You know, if we hear people talking about reproductive rights, 34 00:02:03,860 --> 00:02:06,300 S4: we know what that means. Uh, but if we hear 35 00:02:06,300 --> 00:02:10,620 S4: someone talk about surplus population, we don't know what that means. Uh, 36 00:02:10,620 --> 00:02:13,900 S4: but they did, uh, and it's not really very subtle 37 00:02:13,900 --> 00:02:17,460 S4: at all. There was a very active debate that had started. 38 00:02:17,500 --> 00:02:21,380 S4: I don't know, about 40 years before Dickens wrote the book, uh, 39 00:02:21,380 --> 00:02:26,900 S4: A Christmas Carol, uh, by the reverend economist Thomas Malthus. 40 00:02:27,220 --> 00:02:29,220 S4: So I guess he's a Christian economist, but I don't 41 00:02:29,220 --> 00:02:32,300 S4: think he was a very good one. Uh, because Malthus 42 00:02:32,300 --> 00:02:36,900 S4: believed that because of the biblical commentary about the ground 43 00:02:36,900 --> 00:02:39,620 S4: being cursed, that that meant that there were too many 44 00:02:39,620 --> 00:02:43,419 S4: people in the world that as we reproduced and created 45 00:02:43,419 --> 00:02:46,100 S4: and brought into being, God creates us. But as we 46 00:02:46,139 --> 00:02:49,060 S4: conceive and bring into the world more people, that the 47 00:02:49,060 --> 00:02:52,340 S4: population grows faster than the food supply and the supply 48 00:02:52,340 --> 00:02:57,060 S4: of goods and services. Uh, so that's called malthusianism. big 49 00:02:57,060 --> 00:03:00,140 S4: word for this Malthus he wrote. Wrote a book called 50 00:03:00,139 --> 00:03:05,019 S4: An Essay on Population that was very influential. And basically 51 00:03:05,060 --> 00:03:08,500 S4: the idea was we need to stop the poor, especially 52 00:03:08,500 --> 00:03:11,140 S4: from having so many babies. They're, you know, they're having 53 00:03:11,139 --> 00:03:16,540 S4: too many children because they're producing. What? Surplus population. There 54 00:03:16,580 --> 00:03:22,260 S4: is a population surplus. Too many people, not enough food. 55 00:03:22,460 --> 00:03:27,300 S4: So when Dickens put that language in the mouth of 56 00:03:27,340 --> 00:03:32,100 S4: Ebenezer Scrooge, he's making a very important point. Scrooge is 57 00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:35,620 S4: now a stand in for a certain philosophy, the philosophy 58 00:03:35,620 --> 00:03:38,420 S4: of Thomas Malthus, the philosophy that now we would call 59 00:03:38,460 --> 00:03:40,060 S4: zero population growth. 60 00:03:40,300 --> 00:03:43,260 S3: Yeah. And not everyone agreed with Malthus, of course. So 61 00:03:43,260 --> 00:03:44,820 S3: who opposed his theories? 62 00:03:45,260 --> 00:03:47,940 S4: Jean-Baptiste say, who was one of the founders of classical 63 00:03:47,940 --> 00:03:51,540 S4: and supply side economics. But I think a lot of G.K. 64 00:03:51,580 --> 00:03:55,690 S4: Chesterton was another. The Christian journalist. But I think his 65 00:03:55,690 --> 00:04:00,850 S4: most important opponent was Charles Dickens, because once you understand 66 00:04:00,850 --> 00:04:04,010 S4: that Dickens is writing about this, we now understand that 67 00:04:04,010 --> 00:04:08,970 S4: The Christmas Carol was in fact a story written against Malthus, 68 00:04:09,410 --> 00:04:13,890 S4: because by the end, Scrooge changes his mind. Scrooge is wrong. Okay, 69 00:04:14,290 --> 00:04:16,530 S4: so if you put a philosophy in the mouth of 70 00:04:16,529 --> 00:04:20,490 S4: your villain, you're basically saying you disagree with that philosophy, 71 00:04:20,650 --> 00:04:24,410 S4: and the story really is the unfolding of why, first 72 00:04:24,410 --> 00:04:26,570 S4: of all, why Scrooge got wrong in the first place. 73 00:04:26,930 --> 00:04:31,090 S4: It has to do with his own childhood trauma, uh, of, uh, 74 00:04:31,089 --> 00:04:34,570 S4: of hunger and cold, uh, when he goes back in 75 00:04:34,570 --> 00:04:37,529 S4: time with the Ghost of Christmas Past. And these aren't ghosts. 76 00:04:37,529 --> 00:04:39,850 S4: These are angels, right? That's, I think, obvious to most 77 00:04:39,850 --> 00:04:43,210 S4: Christian readers. When he goes back in time. Dickens says 78 00:04:43,210 --> 00:04:47,089 S4: that the school where he lived, uh, felt or smelt 79 00:04:47,089 --> 00:04:51,930 S4: of not enough to eat and too much cold and 80 00:04:51,930 --> 00:04:55,440 S4: too much darkness. So he was poor when he was young. 81 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,640 S4: By the way, an interesting kind of economic history. Side 82 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,520 S4: note here if you treat Scrooge like a real historical character, 83 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,039 S4: he grew up before the he was a child, before 84 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,960 S4: the free market revolution, when things really were dire. And 85 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:10,800 S4: then when he's an adult, you have a free market 86 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:12,680 S4: revolution and things really are abundant. 87 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,599 S3: Fascinating. Jerry Boyer here today. Much more on A Christmas 88 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:38,760 S3: Carol just around the corner. Stick around. Delighted to have 89 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,479 S3: you with us today here on Faith in finance. Live 90 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,760 S3: with me today. Jerry Boyer, my good friend, our resident 91 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:49,320 S3: economist and president of Boyer Research. We're talking about Charles 92 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,510 S3: Dickens A Christmas Carol, perhaps from a vantage point you 93 00:05:53,510 --> 00:05:57,270 S3: haven't considered previously. Jerry, just before the break, you were 94 00:05:57,270 --> 00:06:02,350 S3: talking about Thomas Malthus and how he was really represented 95 00:06:02,350 --> 00:06:06,910 S3: in the character of Scrooge, who was obviously the villain 96 00:06:06,910 --> 00:06:10,630 S3: character that comes full circle at the end. But what 97 00:06:10,630 --> 00:06:13,550 S3: else can we take away from this character that gives 98 00:06:13,550 --> 00:06:16,510 S3: us some insight into Malthus and and what he was 99 00:06:16,510 --> 00:06:17,790 S3: advocating at the time? 100 00:06:17,910 --> 00:06:20,110 S4: Well, I think one of the things that's really interesting 101 00:06:20,110 --> 00:06:23,630 S4: is the Ghost of Christmas present. When Scrooge first sees him, 102 00:06:23,910 --> 00:06:27,430 S4: Christmas Present says, have you never met my like behind? 103 00:06:27,430 --> 00:06:29,950 S4: Or any of my brothers or before, or any of 104 00:06:29,950 --> 00:06:33,349 S4: my brothers? And Scrooge says, how many brothers have you had? Well, 105 00:06:33,390 --> 00:06:35,870 S4: more than 1800. In other words, there have been more 106 00:06:35,870 --> 00:06:40,550 S4: than 1800 Christmases. Uh. And what Scrooge's reaction, what a 107 00:06:40,550 --> 00:06:45,230 S4: large family to provide for. See, there's that scarcity mindset. Yeah. 108 00:06:45,430 --> 00:06:47,350 S4: I mean, a lot of people think having a lot 109 00:06:47,350 --> 00:06:49,589 S4: of brothers and sisters is a good thing. I do, 110 00:06:49,630 --> 00:06:52,349 S4: my kids do. They like having brothers and sisters. But 111 00:06:52,390 --> 00:06:55,910 S4: we believe God is abundant and generous. But Scrooge didn't 112 00:06:56,029 --> 00:06:58,870 S4: if he believed in him at all. Um, and when 113 00:06:58,870 --> 00:07:01,990 S4: Scrooge says that what a large family to provide for 114 00:07:02,230 --> 00:07:08,110 S4: Christmas present rises in anger. He disapproves of Scrooge's Malthusian ideas. 115 00:07:08,230 --> 00:07:12,390 S4: Later on, when they go to see Tiny Tim, Scrooge, 116 00:07:12,430 --> 00:07:14,390 S4: you know, talks about Tiny Tim and how he cares 117 00:07:14,390 --> 00:07:16,990 S4: for them, and and and the ghost kind of throws 118 00:07:16,990 --> 00:07:19,750 S4: it back in his face. You called him the surplus population, 119 00:07:20,190 --> 00:07:23,310 S4: you know, um, forego that Kant man. And then he 120 00:07:23,310 --> 00:07:25,470 S4: makes an analogy that Scrooge is like a bug on 121 00:07:25,470 --> 00:07:27,430 S4: a leaf, looking down at the bugs in the dirt, 122 00:07:27,430 --> 00:07:30,190 S4: saying that there are too many to him. We're all 123 00:07:30,190 --> 00:07:33,230 S4: kind of bugs, but Scrooge is a little richer than Tim, 124 00:07:33,230 --> 00:07:35,630 S4: so he thinks there's too many people. And then the 125 00:07:35,670 --> 00:07:39,270 S4: ghost kind of raises the question maybe you're the surplus population. 126 00:07:39,310 --> 00:07:42,030 S4: Maybe you're the one that doesn't deserve to live. So 127 00:07:42,030 --> 00:07:44,550 S4: he's pretty tough on Scrooge, but in the end it 128 00:07:44,550 --> 00:07:47,590 S4: works well. And then later Ghost of Christmas Present takes 129 00:07:47,590 --> 00:07:50,180 S4: him to the marketplace. And there's all this food, and 130 00:07:50,180 --> 00:07:52,980 S4: he emphasizes the food from different parts of the world, 131 00:07:52,980 --> 00:07:55,580 S4: oranges and things like that, which you can't grow in Britain. 132 00:07:55,700 --> 00:07:59,820 S4: So the international trade and the economic takeoff that you 133 00:07:59,820 --> 00:08:02,140 S4: and I have talked about in the presentation that I 134 00:08:02,140 --> 00:08:04,260 S4: do on 2000 years of economic history, where you see 135 00:08:04,260 --> 00:08:07,020 S4: the bubbles rising and falling, when you see the United 136 00:08:07,020 --> 00:08:10,700 S4: Kingdom bubble rising, its back down low in Malthusian equilibrium 137 00:08:10,700 --> 00:08:14,260 S4: when Scrooge is a baby and it's kind of popping 138 00:08:14,260 --> 00:08:18,780 S4: out during Scrooge's lifetime, the great takeoff is actually occurring. 139 00:08:18,820 --> 00:08:21,340 S4: Obviously he's a fictional character, but you can kind of 140 00:08:21,340 --> 00:08:24,100 S4: treat him very well, and that great takeoff is just 141 00:08:24,100 --> 00:08:28,380 S4: taking place during his lifetime. Malthus was wrong at exactly 142 00:08:28,380 --> 00:08:31,500 S4: the worst time. He makes his predictions before the greatest 143 00:08:31,500 --> 00:08:34,059 S4: increase in human flourishing ever known to mankind. 144 00:08:34,380 --> 00:08:38,300 S3: Hmm. Wow. Well, now, of course, these Malthusian ideas haven't 145 00:08:38,300 --> 00:08:42,260 S3: gone away, Jerry. So who's advocating them in modern times? 146 00:08:42,500 --> 00:08:47,540 S4: Planned Parenthood is the Malthusian philosophy in industrial, privatized form, 147 00:08:47,540 --> 00:08:51,809 S4: even though technically it's a nonprofit, the abortion revolution is 148 00:08:51,809 --> 00:08:54,809 S4: largely a result of a belief that their surplus population. 149 00:08:54,809 --> 00:08:57,970 S4: We go back to Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood. 150 00:08:58,210 --> 00:09:01,329 S4: Too many of the wrong people, the swarthy people, the 151 00:09:01,330 --> 00:09:06,290 S4: people of color, the poor people. Um, so it's interesting 152 00:09:06,450 --> 00:09:09,370 S4: that these people who believe that there are too many people. 153 00:09:09,809 --> 00:09:13,090 S4: It's never their kind of people, that there are too 154 00:09:13,090 --> 00:09:15,930 S4: many of Ivy League professors who think there are too 155 00:09:15,929 --> 00:09:18,449 S4: many people don't think, well, there's too many of my folks, 156 00:09:18,730 --> 00:09:21,370 S4: you know, they think there's too many of other kind 157 00:09:21,410 --> 00:09:26,650 S4: of folks, usually immigrants, um, usually people who are working class, um, 158 00:09:27,090 --> 00:09:29,970 S4: usually people. I mean, this is why the Scopes trial 159 00:09:29,970 --> 00:09:32,929 S4: takes place in the South. Southerners are thought of as 160 00:09:32,929 --> 00:09:36,250 S4: too many people because they're thought of as backwards black people, 161 00:09:36,370 --> 00:09:41,490 S4: Italian people, Jewish people. Um, you know, outsiders, they're they're 162 00:09:41,530 --> 00:09:45,610 S4: the surplus population. And whether it's the contraceptive revolution or 163 00:09:45,610 --> 00:09:49,040 S4: whether especially I'm going to focus on, um, to the 164 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,959 S4: degree that it's grounded in a zero population growth ideology, 165 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,800 S4: that it's bad to have babies. Um, and that shows 166 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,480 S4: up in the abortion industry that shows up in a 167 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,199 S4: lot of like the Davos world and the United Nations sustainability. 168 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,720 S4: It shows up in a lot of corporate engagement that 169 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,920 S4: in order to be sustainable, we have to have fewer people. 170 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,200 S4: History shows in order to be sustainable, we have to 171 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,280 S4: have more people. The most sustainable thing that we can 172 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,440 S4: do economically is to fulfill God's commandment to fill the 173 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,439 S4: earth and subdue it. Yes, there are no surplus people. 174 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,439 S4: And I think it's interesting. I think the story is 175 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,640 S4: called A Christmas Carol because Jesus Yeshua of Nazareth would 176 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,920 S4: very easily have been classified as surplus population in a 177 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:32,120 S4: malthusian worldview. 178 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:36,319 S3: Um, now, the poor in workhouses in England weren't fictional, 179 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,680 S3: of course. So how did the economic system there and 180 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,439 S3: elsewhere get so confused? 181 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,880 S4: Well, by the way, note that they're government entities, so 182 00:10:44,950 --> 00:10:48,589 S4: Scrooge is in some ways a welfare state person. In 183 00:10:48,590 --> 00:10:50,710 S4: other words, men are going door to door saying we 184 00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:52,750 S4: want to do private charity. He doesn't want to do 185 00:10:52,750 --> 00:10:55,630 S4: private charity. He wants to do it through taxes where 186 00:10:55,630 --> 00:10:59,750 S4: it's impersonal. The workhouses and the prisons, they in essence, 187 00:10:59,750 --> 00:11:02,110 S4: they would keep people alive, but it would be a 188 00:11:02,110 --> 00:11:04,630 S4: terrible existence. So the idea is to punish them for 189 00:11:04,630 --> 00:11:08,949 S4: being poor. Um, and that obviously is not the solution. 190 00:11:09,070 --> 00:11:11,950 S4: So if you want to be the opposite of Scrooge, 191 00:11:11,950 --> 00:11:14,070 S4: you're going to be pro, baby, and you're going to 192 00:11:14,070 --> 00:11:19,510 S4: be pro private charity. You're going to be pro generosity. Um, 193 00:11:19,590 --> 00:11:22,270 S4: and by the end, that's exactly what Scrooge is. Um, 194 00:11:22,309 --> 00:11:25,189 S4: he's pro generosity, by the way, another little side story. 195 00:11:25,190 --> 00:11:29,070 S4: When he visits his, um, nephew Fred. You know, when 196 00:11:29,070 --> 00:11:33,790 S4: Fred visits him, Fred implies that Scrooge was upset because 197 00:11:33,830 --> 00:11:37,310 S4: Fred married. Why did you marry? Scrooge didn't want his 198 00:11:37,309 --> 00:11:40,510 S4: nephew to marry because of surplus population. You marry and 199 00:11:40,510 --> 00:11:43,550 S4: you have children. See? It comes up again and again 200 00:11:43,550 --> 00:11:47,310 S4: and again. Scrooge's whole existence was. There's too many people. God, 201 00:11:47,309 --> 00:11:50,030 S4: if he exists at all, is stingy. By the end, though, 202 00:11:50,070 --> 00:11:53,949 S4: what is he? He's generous, and he's especially generous to children. 203 00:11:53,950 --> 00:11:55,189 S4: By the way, I don't know if people know this, 204 00:11:55,190 --> 00:11:58,709 S4: but Dickens wrote a novel version of the Gospels. He 205 00:11:58,710 --> 00:12:00,429 S4: read the Gospels and then wrote a novel. I think 206 00:12:00,429 --> 00:12:02,350 S4: it's called The Life of Our Lord, and it has 207 00:12:02,350 --> 00:12:06,550 S4: similar themes. So Dickens was thinking a lot about Jesus, 208 00:12:06,590 --> 00:12:09,550 S4: wrote a novel about him, and also about he was 209 00:12:09,710 --> 00:12:11,750 S4: one of those people who might have been considered the 210 00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:15,189 S4: forgotten class, but he treated everyone with love and dignity, 211 00:12:15,190 --> 00:12:18,510 S4: which made Jesus unusual. That's something Dickens really focuses on, 212 00:12:18,510 --> 00:12:19,310 S4: on the novel. 213 00:12:19,670 --> 00:12:23,390 S3: Wow. Yeah. Well, said, Jerry, we're getting short on time. 214 00:12:23,390 --> 00:12:27,429 S3: So when folks watch A Christmas Carol this season and 215 00:12:27,429 --> 00:12:31,230 S3: perhaps look at it through this new lens, this filter 216 00:12:31,230 --> 00:12:34,550 S3: that you've just shared, what would you hope above all else, 217 00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:36,109 S3: they take away from the story. 218 00:12:36,670 --> 00:12:42,190 S4: That God is generous, not stingy, that Scrooge is damaged 219 00:12:42,190 --> 00:12:45,380 S4: because he grew up in poverty. It's real. There's trauma. 220 00:12:45,380 --> 00:12:47,700 S4: And so we should be patient with him and help 221 00:12:47,700 --> 00:12:50,060 S4: move him away, but that we should help move our 222 00:12:50,059 --> 00:12:55,660 S4: entire Scrooge ruling class philosophy away from Scrooge at the beginning, 223 00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:59,740 S4: towards Scrooge at the end, where everybody's welcome. We aren't 224 00:12:59,740 --> 00:13:03,500 S4: bugs in the dust. We produce, and we produce more 225 00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:06,820 S4: than we consume. And over time, that has given us 226 00:13:06,820 --> 00:13:12,500 S4: miraculous prosperity and flourishing, which Dickens was just seeing the 227 00:13:12,500 --> 00:13:14,660 S4: beginning of. So I think we should watch it with 228 00:13:14,660 --> 00:13:18,180 S4: gratitude and also understanding that there's real philosophy going on 229 00:13:18,179 --> 00:13:20,300 S4: here and theology going on here. It's not just a 230 00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:23,339 S4: fun story. And then we should bring Dickens philosophy into 231 00:13:23,340 --> 00:13:26,900 S4: our own lives. The child in the womb who's unwanted 232 00:13:27,020 --> 00:13:29,420 S4: is the tiny Tim of our generation. 233 00:13:29,740 --> 00:13:33,580 S3: Mhm. Wow. Well said. What an opportunity to share this 234 00:13:33,580 --> 00:13:36,339 S3: with our kids too, as we watch this and help 235 00:13:36,340 --> 00:13:40,020 S3: them interpret what they're seeing. Jerry. Always thankful for you 236 00:13:40,020 --> 00:13:41,650 S3: my friend. Merry Christmas. 237 00:13:41,690 --> 00:13:43,450 S4: Merry Christmas to you folks. 238 00:13:43,450 --> 00:13:47,170 S3: As we reflect on Dickens reminder about generosity. It naturally 239 00:13:47,170 --> 00:13:50,810 S3: brings to mind why faithful exists to help families live 240 00:13:50,850 --> 00:13:54,449 S3: as faithful stewards of all God provides. If this ministry 241 00:13:54,450 --> 00:13:57,290 S3: has been an encouragement to you, would you consider partnering 242 00:13:57,290 --> 00:14:00,850 S3: with us? When you give $400 a year or $35 243 00:14:00,850 --> 00:14:04,410 S3: a month or more? You'll receive our Faithful Steward magazine, 244 00:14:04,410 --> 00:14:08,250 S3: two annual devotionals or studies, including my brand new one 245 00:14:08,250 --> 00:14:12,490 S3: releasing next month. Our ultimate treasure plus premium access to 246 00:14:12,530 --> 00:14:16,449 S3: the faithful app. And remember, every gift made before December 247 00:14:16,450 --> 00:14:20,050 S3: 31st will be doubled thanks to a generous match. Learn 248 00:14:20,050 --> 00:14:27,410 S3: more at Faith. That's faith. We'll be right back. 249 00:14:37,850 --> 00:14:40,480 S5: You're listening to Faith and finance live and you can 250 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:45,480 S5: find us online at Wycombe. However, today we are not 251 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,800 S5: live so if you hear that phone number please don't call. 252 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,160 S5: But do stay with us. There's lots of good information ahead. 253 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:56,680 S3: To Ohio. Christina. Go ahead. 254 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:57,840 S1: Hi. 255 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,880 S6: Thank you for taking my call. So my situation is 256 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,360 S6: I've been a stay at home mom for a long time. 257 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,040 S6: I have my own business, and I have a couple 258 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:12,760 S6: hundred dollars that I would like to invest somewhere. And 259 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:14,560 S6: I want to, you know, every once in a while, 260 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,560 S6: I need to, you know, I want to be able 261 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,520 S6: to put money into it, but I don't know exactly 262 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,080 S6: where to start or where to, you know, put that money. 263 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,800 S3: Mhm. Yeah I love that. And so let me ask 264 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,320 S3: you a couple of questions. Do you have an emergency 265 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,600 S3: savings yet that's separate from this. 266 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:32,520 S6: We do. 267 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,560 S3: Okay. And you've got somewhere between 3 and 6 months. 268 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,040 S6: That part we're still working on. 269 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,880 S3: So Okay, I think that should be your first goal. Now, 270 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,680 S3: apart from that, did you say you're self-employed? 271 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:45,720 S6: Yes. 272 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,800 S3: Okay. And so you wouldn't have access to a company plan. 273 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,840 S3: So I think a great next option for you, assuming 274 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,760 S3: you're thinking long term investments where you're not going to 275 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,480 S3: touch it for, you know, until you get to retirement 276 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:02,040 S3: would be a Roth IRA. And you could open that 277 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:06,320 S3: at Charles Schwab and perhaps use their Schwab Intelligent Portfolios, 278 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,400 S3: which is a real simple, low cost way to invest, 279 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,760 S3: because they're going to take all the guesswork out of it. 280 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,880 S3: They're going to use what are called index funds. Actually, 281 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,680 S3: they'll use ETFs very low cost, very broadly diversified. And 282 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,240 S3: then every time you add money to it, it would 283 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,320 S3: automatically be reinvested. So let's fully fund that emergency fund, 284 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:30,120 S3: but then open a Roth IRA at the Schwab Intelligent Portfolios. 285 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,479 S3: And I think that'll get you going in the right direction. 286 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,560 S3: Thanks for your call, Christina. Let's head to Mississippi. Kathy. 287 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:36,160 S3: Go ahead. 288 00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:39,070 S7: Hey, Rob. Thanks for taking my call. 289 00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:39,590 S3: Yes, ma'am. 290 00:16:39,630 --> 00:16:47,230 S7: I have a question, um, about beneficiaries on IRAs. I'm 291 00:16:47,270 --> 00:16:51,030 S7: curious about what the tax hit is would be on 292 00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:54,310 S7: someone you know, to be a beneficiary on a fair 293 00:16:54,310 --> 00:16:57,350 S7: amount of money. Is there a better way to go 294 00:16:57,350 --> 00:17:01,190 S7: about designating that money to them? 295 00:17:02,150 --> 00:17:03,070 S3: Mm. Yeah. 296 00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:06,429 S7: Other than just a straight beneficiary on an account? 297 00:17:06,670 --> 00:17:10,070 S3: Yeah, yeah. Very good. Uh, no, I mean, I think 298 00:17:10,070 --> 00:17:12,550 S3: it is probably the best way if it if it's 299 00:17:12,550 --> 00:17:16,630 S3: already in a tax deferred retirement account, like an IRA, 300 00:17:16,670 --> 00:17:20,350 S3: an individual retirement account. And then in terms of, you know, 301 00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:22,510 S3: if you want to give it away to your church 302 00:17:22,510 --> 00:17:24,790 S3: or a ministry or a charity, well, there's there's not 303 00:17:24,790 --> 00:17:26,790 S3: going to be any tax. But if you want to 304 00:17:26,790 --> 00:17:30,470 S3: get it to an individual, a family member, uh, you know, 305 00:17:30,510 --> 00:17:34,990 S3: through the beneficiary designation, that is the best way because 306 00:17:35,460 --> 00:17:38,859 S3: with a spouse, you know, they can basically make it 307 00:17:38,859 --> 00:17:41,379 S3: their own and then just have the ability to take 308 00:17:41,380 --> 00:17:44,820 S3: it out at their leisure. And the only thing that 309 00:17:44,820 --> 00:17:48,700 S3: would require any kind of distribution is once they reach 73, 310 00:17:48,740 --> 00:17:53,540 S3: they would have required minimums with Non-spouse beneficiaries. When they 311 00:17:53,540 --> 00:17:57,180 S3: inherit an IRA, they have to open what's called an 312 00:17:57,180 --> 00:18:00,820 S3: inherited IRA. And according to the the newest law on 313 00:18:00,820 --> 00:18:05,300 S3: the book, Secure Act 2.0, they typically have ten years 314 00:18:05,540 --> 00:18:08,900 S3: from the original owner's death to get the money out. 315 00:18:09,140 --> 00:18:12,380 S3: But that's really helpful, actually, because it allows them, especially 316 00:18:12,380 --> 00:18:16,580 S3: if it's a meaningful amount to spread those withdrawals out 317 00:18:16,580 --> 00:18:19,859 S3: over ten years. So they're not taking it out all 318 00:18:19,859 --> 00:18:23,139 S3: in one or 2 or 3 years, where those withdrawals 319 00:18:23,140 --> 00:18:27,100 S3: could push them way up into the highest tax brackets, 320 00:18:27,420 --> 00:18:29,740 S3: and then they'd have more tax to pay on it by, 321 00:18:29,780 --> 00:18:32,700 S3: by having this ten year runway, they can work with 322 00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:36,770 S3: a tax professional to take it out systematically and hopefully 323 00:18:36,770 --> 00:18:40,490 S3: keep it in the lower tax brackets as they withdraw it. 324 00:18:40,490 --> 00:18:43,330 S3: But somebody's going to unless it's given away, tax is 325 00:18:43,330 --> 00:18:47,010 S3: going to be paid. And so having time on your 326 00:18:47,010 --> 00:18:50,450 S3: side is your friend, because you can manage it in 327 00:18:50,450 --> 00:18:53,210 S3: such a way to minimize the tax liability. Does that 328 00:18:53,210 --> 00:18:53,850 S3: make sense? 329 00:18:54,770 --> 00:18:57,850 S7: It does. Um, my husband and I both are on 330 00:18:57,850 --> 00:19:03,810 S7: each other's. And then we have contingent beneficiaries, two family 331 00:19:03,810 --> 00:19:07,450 S7: members on both of ours, and I just didn't. I 332 00:19:07,450 --> 00:19:10,050 S7: just was wondering how the if that was the best 333 00:19:10,050 --> 00:19:13,570 S7: way to do it. Um, yeah. And um, but yes, 334 00:19:13,570 --> 00:19:17,370 S7: that makes sense. I will I will, um, pass that 335 00:19:17,369 --> 00:19:22,170 S7: information on. Also, I do want to say that, um, 336 00:19:22,210 --> 00:19:27,409 S7: I learned about Dcas on your program. Yes, ma'am. And 337 00:19:27,410 --> 00:19:30,050 S7: about a year ago, about a year ago, my husband 338 00:19:30,050 --> 00:19:34,850 S7: and I, um, got with one in Flowood, Mississippi, and 339 00:19:34,850 --> 00:19:38,050 S7: we have just been so pleased with how he has 340 00:19:38,450 --> 00:19:42,330 S7: handled things. I mean, we've we've become really friends with them, 341 00:19:42,330 --> 00:19:44,609 S7: and that's one of the things that when we first 342 00:19:44,609 --> 00:19:46,970 S7: saw him, he said, you know, we like to build 343 00:19:46,970 --> 00:19:50,770 S7: relationships and we just are so pleased with him. And 344 00:19:50,770 --> 00:19:53,210 S7: I want to thank you for putting that information out. 345 00:19:53,490 --> 00:19:57,330 S3: Wow, Cathy, that is incredible. I really appreciate you sharing 346 00:19:57,330 --> 00:20:00,409 S3: that testimony. You know, that's our hope and our prayer 347 00:20:00,410 --> 00:20:04,330 S3: when we created the designation Certified Kingdom Advisor, it was 348 00:20:04,330 --> 00:20:06,689 S3: for that reason so that God's people could find a 349 00:20:06,690 --> 00:20:10,130 S3: trusted advisor who had met high standards and character and 350 00:20:10,130 --> 00:20:13,890 S3: competence and pastor reference and client reference and experience, but 351 00:20:13,890 --> 00:20:17,290 S3: also that they aligned with your values and understood the 352 00:20:17,290 --> 00:20:20,250 S3: counsel of Scripture as it relates to money and its 353 00:20:20,250 --> 00:20:22,290 S3: role in our lives. And I am just so thrilled 354 00:20:22,290 --> 00:20:25,410 S3: to hear that you've formed that relationship with your Certified 355 00:20:25,410 --> 00:20:28,770 S3: Kingdom Advisor. Thank you for mentioning that today. Lord bless you, Cathy. 356 00:20:29,130 --> 00:20:29,930 S7: Thank you. 357 00:20:30,130 --> 00:20:32,680 S3: All right, folks, if you'd like to find a cafe 358 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,320 S3: in your area Certified Kingdom Advisor, just go to find 359 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:40,560 S3: a comm quickly to Texas. Susana. Go ahead. 360 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,240 S8: So the question is the following. I am 45 years old. 361 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,920 S8: My husband will be turning 50. We are thinking about 362 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,520 S8: doing a 1031 exchange on a property that we have. 363 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:56,359 S8: The capital gains will be about 250,000. We're almost done 364 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,560 S8: paying that property outright. We have about 15,000 left on it, 365 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,440 S8: so we're just wondering if it would be a good 366 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,960 S8: idea to continue with that thought process, or maybe to 367 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:07,680 S8: kind of go some other route. 368 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,159 S3: No, I like that because that's going to continue to 369 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,320 S3: kick the can down the road. Um, you know, the 370 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,639 S3: only potential risk is that capital gains taxes are higher 371 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,639 S3: in the future. One option to consider, even if you 372 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,639 S3: do the 1031 exchange, is to give a portion of 373 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,840 S3: it to a donor advised fund before you sell. If 374 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,399 S3: you at some point want to do some giving based 375 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,590 S3: on this asset, even down the road. You could give 376 00:21:31,630 --> 00:21:34,510 S3: a portion of it at the sale to your donor 377 00:21:34,510 --> 00:21:37,750 S3: advised fund. That's never going to be subject to capital gains, 378 00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:40,390 S3: and it'll fund an account that you can then grant 379 00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:44,070 S3: out over time. But, you know, I think the 1031 380 00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:46,310 S3: is a great option. It allows you to continue to 381 00:21:46,350 --> 00:21:49,230 S3: roll over that money into new investments without having to 382 00:21:49,270 --> 00:21:52,389 S3: pay that capital gains, which gets more into growing it 383 00:21:52,390 --> 00:21:54,830 S3: for the future. So I like it. I'm on board 384 00:21:54,830 --> 00:22:04,790 S3: with it. Susanna, thanks for your call today. God bless you. Hey, 385 00:22:04,790 --> 00:22:06,670 S3: great to have you with us today on Faith and 386 00:22:06,670 --> 00:22:09,790 S3: Finance Live. I'm Rob West, your host. Our team is 387 00:22:09,790 --> 00:22:12,390 S3: away from the studio today, so don't call in. But 388 00:22:12,430 --> 00:22:14,910 S3: coming up a little later, we'll have more of your 389 00:22:14,910 --> 00:22:18,510 S3: questions right here on the program. Hey, let me take 390 00:22:18,510 --> 00:22:22,190 S3: a moment to mention the Faith fi app. We'd love 391 00:22:22,190 --> 00:22:24,190 S3: for you to download it. Just head to your app 392 00:22:24,190 --> 00:22:28,070 S3: store or wherever you download apps and search for Faith fi. 393 00:22:28,109 --> 00:22:30,980 S3: That's faith. Fi, you can manage your money. You can 394 00:22:30,980 --> 00:22:36,260 S3: access the best content in biblical finance podcasts, articles and videos. 395 00:22:36,260 --> 00:22:39,540 S3: You can also participate in our Faith fi community, where 396 00:22:39,540 --> 00:22:42,740 S3: you can post questions and get answers from others on 397 00:22:42,740 --> 00:22:45,740 S3: their stewardship journey. You'll find it in your app store. 398 00:22:45,740 --> 00:22:48,100 S3: Just search for Faith fi or if it's easier, head 399 00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:54,180 S3: to our website at Faith. That's Faith fi and you'll 400 00:22:54,180 --> 00:22:57,340 S3: see the app right there on the home page. All right, 401 00:22:57,340 --> 00:23:00,220 S3: let's head back to the phones. Uh, Texas is where 402 00:23:00,220 --> 00:23:01,619 S3: Paul is located. Go ahead sir. 403 00:23:02,580 --> 00:23:06,820 S9: Uh, yes. Uh, more of a intellectual curiosity question. When 404 00:23:06,820 --> 00:23:09,660 S9: we use the word investing, I'm thinking of you're putting 405 00:23:09,660 --> 00:23:12,859 S9: money into something to grow it. So let's take the 406 00:23:12,859 --> 00:23:17,300 S9: example of a stock that has no dividends. When I 407 00:23:17,340 --> 00:23:21,580 S9: buy that stock, I'm placing what I consider to be 408 00:23:21,780 --> 00:23:25,659 S9: a speculative bet that it will go up. Now, I 409 00:23:25,660 --> 00:23:28,570 S9: know the world is more complex than that. So my 410 00:23:28,570 --> 00:23:33,609 S9: question is, even in that situation where it's completely passive 411 00:23:33,609 --> 00:23:35,730 S9: and I'm just, you know, I'm not going to make 412 00:23:35,730 --> 00:23:39,490 S9: any money until I sell it. What ways? By my 413 00:23:39,530 --> 00:23:42,810 S9: buying that stock, which I guess contributes to its value 414 00:23:42,810 --> 00:23:48,369 S9: going up actually helps the company grow in positive ways 415 00:23:48,369 --> 00:23:50,930 S9: so that it is kind of like an investment instead 416 00:23:50,930 --> 00:23:51,970 S9: of like a bet. 417 00:23:52,250 --> 00:23:55,449 S3: Yeah, well, I think it comes down ultimately, Paul, to 418 00:23:55,490 --> 00:23:58,810 S3: this idea that you are an owner. So even though 419 00:23:58,810 --> 00:24:02,450 S3: you're a very small owner, you are a part owner 420 00:24:02,450 --> 00:24:05,810 S3: in this company. As soon as you buy the stock. 421 00:24:06,090 --> 00:24:11,290 S3: And business is the way that, you know, human flourishing 422 00:24:11,330 --> 00:24:14,970 S3: takes place. Let's talk about that, starting with just this, 423 00:24:15,090 --> 00:24:18,129 S3: you know, view of, of profit and business. You know, 424 00:24:18,170 --> 00:24:19,770 S3: I don't think we have to take a low view 425 00:24:19,770 --> 00:24:22,650 S3: of profit. I'm not saying Paul is suggesting we we do. 426 00:24:22,930 --> 00:24:27,090 S3: But tied to that is, you know, wealth created from 427 00:24:27,090 --> 00:24:30,890 S3: business is the basis for all human flourishing. You see, 428 00:24:30,890 --> 00:24:35,050 S3: business is the only institution in the world that generates wealth. 429 00:24:35,290 --> 00:24:39,369 S3: Churches take donations that come as a result of business. 430 00:24:39,450 --> 00:24:43,930 S3: So do hospitals. So do government. You know, government earns 431 00:24:43,930 --> 00:24:48,290 S3: taxes that result from business. And so this is a 432 00:24:48,290 --> 00:24:51,530 S3: part of of the plan from the very beginning in 433 00:24:51,530 --> 00:24:54,650 S3: the sense that investing what is it. Well, it's the 434 00:24:54,650 --> 00:24:59,810 S3: supply of capital that supports business in exchange for the 435 00:24:59,810 --> 00:25:04,050 S3: rights of profit. That's the return portion that you talked about, Paul, 436 00:25:04,330 --> 00:25:09,450 S3: and the dividends, uh, you know, plus the stock appreciation. Okay. 437 00:25:09,570 --> 00:25:11,010 S3: So that's at the end of the day. Now, if 438 00:25:11,010 --> 00:25:14,530 S3: it's a company that doesn't have dividends, it's supplying capital 439 00:25:14,570 --> 00:25:17,690 S3: to support business in exchange for the the return, the 440 00:25:17,690 --> 00:25:21,730 S3: rights of the profits. And the primary purpose of investing 441 00:25:22,010 --> 00:25:27,160 S3: is to supply capital to enable and enlarge the work 442 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,679 S3: of business. You know, this actually started I mean, if 443 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,080 S3: you go back to kind of where did this all begin? 444 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,160 S3: It was the shipping companies. The the Dutch East trade 445 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,240 S3: and the British shipping companies were the first publicly traded 446 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:46,640 S3: companies issuing shares and, you know, through the Amsterdam Exchange 447 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,840 S3: that gave them liquidity. And, you know, there's an opportunity 448 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:56,360 S3: here for us to promote the human flourishing that happens 449 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,679 S3: as a result of business, which is part of God's 450 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,719 S3: design for economics and wealth creation and the virtuous cycle 451 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,359 S3: that leads to human flourishing and allowing us to co-create 452 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,520 S3: with God. You know, from the very beginning, you know, 453 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,440 S3: Adam and Eve were created to be workers. You know, 454 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,160 S3: God's story for work is that God is a worker. 455 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,400 S3: He creates the heavens and the earth. He creates us 456 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,840 S3: in his image. He gives us humanity. You know, he 457 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,390 S3: gives humanity work as a gift to cultivate and keep. 458 00:26:24,910 --> 00:26:27,550 S3: And then he gives us instructions for work. And we 459 00:26:27,550 --> 00:26:29,629 S3: do that to bring him glory. And as a result 460 00:26:29,630 --> 00:26:32,630 S3: of that business flows out of that. Now you may 461 00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:35,310 S3: also say, okay, but but I'm not, you know, the 462 00:26:35,470 --> 00:26:38,670 S3: if I'm not in on the IPO, the initial public offering, 463 00:26:38,830 --> 00:26:41,910 S3: and I'm not supplying capital directly to the business, that's 464 00:26:41,910 --> 00:26:45,110 S3: what we call the secondary market. How is that supporting 465 00:26:45,109 --> 00:26:48,230 S3: the business? Well, first let me define the secondary market 466 00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:50,070 S3: because somebody may be saying, wait a minute, what are 467 00:26:50,070 --> 00:26:52,149 S3: you what are you even talking about? Essentially, when you 468 00:26:52,150 --> 00:26:54,070 S3: buy a stock, it's kind of like if you were 469 00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:56,190 S3: to buy a used car, you know, if you buy 470 00:26:56,190 --> 00:26:59,590 S3: a used Honda, you don't wire the money to Honda. 471 00:26:59,830 --> 00:27:02,590 S3: You give it to John Doe, who bought it from 472 00:27:02,590 --> 00:27:04,830 S3: Honda and is now selling it to you. Well, that's 473 00:27:04,830 --> 00:27:08,310 S3: essentially what happens with stocks. The the person who puts up, 474 00:27:08,350 --> 00:27:10,909 S3: you know, buys into the IPO, the company goes the 475 00:27:10,910 --> 00:27:14,230 S3: money goes directly to the company. From that point forward, 476 00:27:14,510 --> 00:27:19,270 S3: it's a secondary market that's exchanging those shares of ownership okay. 477 00:27:19,270 --> 00:27:23,740 S3: Well why does the secondary market support business. Well, number one, 478 00:27:23,780 --> 00:27:29,260 S3: our investments in the secondary markets help companies directly because, 479 00:27:29,580 --> 00:27:33,419 S3: you know, the primary market depends on the secondary market 480 00:27:33,420 --> 00:27:37,459 S3: for its survival. You see the primary market gives the 481 00:27:37,460 --> 00:27:42,300 S3: the liquidity and the capital that allows this all to work. 482 00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:45,859 S3: It doesn't work without the secondary market because then the 483 00:27:45,859 --> 00:27:50,219 S3: primary market doesn't exist. Third, you know, management teams are 484 00:27:50,619 --> 00:27:55,780 S3: dependent upon the share price. Uh, fourth, shareholders have governance powers. 485 00:27:55,980 --> 00:27:58,500 S3: And so at the end of the day, our collective efforts, 486 00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:03,260 S3: which include the primary and the secondary markets, have tremendous force. 487 00:28:03,260 --> 00:28:07,140 S3: And they make business work. You know, without the secondary markets, 488 00:28:07,140 --> 00:28:09,940 S3: they don't work. So I think that's what, you know, 489 00:28:09,980 --> 00:28:11,980 S3: we have to look at this in light of the 490 00:28:11,980 --> 00:28:15,420 S3: fact that that's why investing is not like gambling. Gambling 491 00:28:15,420 --> 00:28:20,820 S3: is pure speculation. Uh, investing is ownership. You actually own 492 00:28:20,859 --> 00:28:23,619 S3: this company, which I think is a part of God's 493 00:28:23,619 --> 00:28:28,140 S3: original design for the world and for human flourishing. And 494 00:28:28,140 --> 00:28:32,619 S3: without this virtuous cycle of the primary markets and secondary markets, 495 00:28:32,660 --> 00:28:35,820 S3: none of this works. But that also takes us to 496 00:28:35,859 --> 00:28:39,580 S3: the question of, okay, well, if investing is ownership, what 497 00:28:39,580 --> 00:28:44,140 S3: companies should I own? You know, what is a good business? Well, 498 00:28:44,380 --> 00:28:47,900 S3: we say business produces goods and services. So what about 499 00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:53,180 S3: owning companies that create good products and good practices and 500 00:28:53,180 --> 00:28:58,020 S3: serve their neighbors? You know, how do they love their employees? Um, 501 00:28:58,060 --> 00:29:02,260 S3: how do they serve their customers? Are their suppliers valued? 502 00:29:02,460 --> 00:29:06,300 S3: Are the communities better off with the company's presence where 503 00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:10,020 S3: it's physically located? Is the environment better off? And that's 504 00:29:10,020 --> 00:29:12,980 S3: the opportunity we have with faith based investing, where we 505 00:29:12,980 --> 00:29:17,820 S3: take God's design for economics and investment and business and ownership, 506 00:29:17,820 --> 00:29:21,890 S3: and we lay that over companies that are doing good 507 00:29:22,130 --> 00:29:26,050 S3: and promoting human flourishing and loving their neighbors and their stakeholders. 508 00:29:26,250 --> 00:29:29,530 S3: And that's the ultimate opportunity, I think, for us to 509 00:29:29,570 --> 00:29:33,050 S3: take God's money, grow it and use it for productive 510 00:29:33,170 --> 00:29:36,930 S3: purposes and ultimately to bring him glory. Now, I've said 511 00:29:36,930 --> 00:29:39,370 S3: way too much there, Paul. So let me stop and 512 00:29:39,370 --> 00:29:40,729 S3: get your thoughts on all that. 513 00:29:41,490 --> 00:29:43,970 S9: Yeah, no, that's a good answer. I think that it 514 00:29:43,970 --> 00:29:46,570 S9: came down really to the key of ownership. Because even 515 00:29:46,570 --> 00:29:50,050 S9: if nothing else, uh, you know, you can own a 516 00:29:50,050 --> 00:29:54,010 S9: company and you're pushing the needle to drive human effort 517 00:29:54,010 --> 00:29:57,210 S9: to help supply that need. For example, if there's a 518 00:29:57,490 --> 00:30:01,130 S9: company called Nvidia and they make graphics processors and they're 519 00:30:01,130 --> 00:30:05,530 S9: being wealthy beyond all human imagination, well, that's going to 520 00:30:05,530 --> 00:30:08,930 S9: provide incentive for other people to come into that business 521 00:30:08,930 --> 00:30:12,650 S9: and help meet that need. Whereas you can't own the 522 00:30:12,650 --> 00:30:16,930 S9: outcome of an NBA game. You do own the assets 523 00:30:16,930 --> 00:30:21,000 S9: of something that actually produces something for human flourishing. So 524 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,360 S9: I think that's right. Ownership was probably the key answer 525 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,200 S9: to my question. Thank you. I appreciate. 526 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,360 S3: It. Absolutely, Paul, it's a great one. I appreciate you 527 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,400 S3: asking it. Uh, thanks for being on the program, sir. Well, folks, 528 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,640 S3: we're going to take one more quick break and then 529 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,320 S3: back with our final segment today. But if you need 530 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,120 S3: assistance from a financial or legal professional, we'd love for 531 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,840 S3: you to visit faith-filled. Com and click find a K. 532 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,040 S3: Again that's faith. Com and click find a K that 533 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,680 S3: stands for Certified Kingdom Advisor, our preferred designation for financial 534 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,800 S3: advice from a biblical worldview. We're back with much more 535 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,560 S3: just around the corner. Stick around. 536 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,960 S5: This is our final segment of a Faith and finance 537 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,360 S5: Live program that we previously recorded. Thanks so much for 538 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,560 S5: being with us today, and we hope you'll stick around 539 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,720 S5: and enjoy the rest of the program. 540 00:31:19,230 --> 00:31:20,510 S10: Uh. Let's see, Texas. 541 00:31:20,550 --> 00:31:22,350 S3: Is where we're going next. Hi, David. Go ahead. 542 00:31:22,830 --> 00:31:23,670 S7: Yes, I'm. 543 00:31:23,670 --> 00:31:28,830 S11: 87 years old. If all of my assets have beneficiaries designated. 544 00:31:29,190 --> 00:31:32,790 S11: Is there any reason to have probate or is there 545 00:31:32,790 --> 00:31:37,270 S11: a maximum dollar amount that requires probate? So I would 546 00:31:37,270 --> 00:31:38,590 S11: have to get a trust. 547 00:31:38,990 --> 00:31:40,270 S10: Yeah, it's a good question. 548 00:31:40,350 --> 00:31:43,270 S3: Um, you know, anything that has a beneficiary is going 549 00:31:43,270 --> 00:31:47,310 S3: to pass outside of your estate, uh, directly to the 550 00:31:47,310 --> 00:31:50,670 S3: the named beneficiary. So that really is kind of now 551 00:31:50,710 --> 00:31:54,070 S3: been removed from your estate. So the will is going 552 00:31:54,070 --> 00:31:57,710 S3: to cover everything else because there are going to be 553 00:31:57,710 --> 00:31:59,750 S3: other things that you're going to want to, you know, 554 00:31:59,830 --> 00:32:03,830 S3: make sure you have covered at your passing. So think 555 00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:06,590 S3: bank accounts. Well, that could have a beneficiary on it. But, 556 00:32:06,630 --> 00:32:10,070 S3: you know, any kind of personal, uh, you know, property 557 00:32:10,070 --> 00:32:13,310 S3: or furniture or jewelry, things like that. That's where the 558 00:32:13,310 --> 00:32:15,750 S3: will is going to be helpful if that's all that's 559 00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:19,310 S3: in there, because most of your accounts have named beneficiaries. And, 560 00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:21,550 S3: you know, if you have a home with a transfer 561 00:32:21,550 --> 00:32:24,830 S3: on death deed, which is like a beneficiary for a 562 00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:27,790 S3: piece of property, then, you know, I think a simple 563 00:32:27,790 --> 00:32:30,670 S3: will will cover you and just make sure that you've 564 00:32:30,670 --> 00:32:34,630 S3: decided in advance, you know, what those where those other 565 00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:38,350 S3: personal assets are going to go that don't have the 566 00:32:38,350 --> 00:32:41,390 S3: ability to have named beneficiaries. Does that make sense? 567 00:32:41,870 --> 00:32:45,110 S11: Yes it does. So there is no, um, certain amount 568 00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:49,270 S11: of the estate that requires a probate in dollar value? 569 00:32:49,710 --> 00:32:52,670 S3: Uh, no, there's not. I mean, you know, it's always 570 00:32:52,670 --> 00:32:56,910 S3: going to involve probate, but in terms of the cost, 571 00:32:56,990 --> 00:33:01,230 S3: you know, it's going to be very minimal. And, you know, typically, uh, 572 00:33:01,230 --> 00:33:04,150 S3: you know, it could just fly right through. It depends 573 00:33:04,150 --> 00:33:07,950 S3: on the state. I mean, smaller estates, you know, can 574 00:33:08,230 --> 00:33:12,510 S3: avoid full probate where there would be, you know, and again, 575 00:33:12,510 --> 00:33:14,540 S3: it's going to come down to the state that you're in. 576 00:33:14,540 --> 00:33:18,340 S3: And I'm not sure about Texas specifically, but if it's 577 00:33:18,380 --> 00:33:22,180 S3: on the smaller side and it's below the state's small 578 00:33:22,220 --> 00:33:26,300 S3: estate limit, then, you know, you could use just a 579 00:33:26,300 --> 00:33:30,780 S3: simple estate affidavit to settle it pretty quickly and not 580 00:33:30,780 --> 00:33:33,260 S3: have the time and the expense of the court costs. 581 00:33:33,260 --> 00:33:35,820 S3: So I would just check, you know, for the state 582 00:33:35,820 --> 00:33:38,020 S3: of Texas and see what that is and, and see 583 00:33:38,020 --> 00:33:39,540 S3: if you're under that threshold. 584 00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:42,340 S11: So if it was like a million and a half, 585 00:33:42,540 --> 00:33:45,140 S11: you think that probably would require probate? 586 00:33:45,460 --> 00:33:48,580 S3: I do. Yeah. So a small estate is typically, again 587 00:33:48,620 --> 00:33:51,100 S3: depending on the state going to be somewhere between, you know, 588 00:33:51,140 --> 00:33:56,500 S3: 50 and $200,000. Um, I think in Texas that's less 589 00:33:56,500 --> 00:34:01,820 S3: than 75,000. You know, that before it doesn't go through probate. So, 590 00:34:02,020 --> 00:34:03,940 S3: you know, I think what you could do is, again, 591 00:34:03,940 --> 00:34:08,379 S3: if you've got that beneficiary designations, those pass outside of 592 00:34:08,380 --> 00:34:11,100 S3: the estate, so then it would just be the other 593 00:34:11,140 --> 00:34:12,649 S3: assets that remain. 594 00:34:13,130 --> 00:34:16,250 S11: Okay. Yeah, I think I would still value of the 595 00:34:16,250 --> 00:34:19,290 S11: home would be a trigger because it would be about 400,000. 596 00:34:19,530 --> 00:34:19,890 S10: Yeah. 597 00:34:19,890 --> 00:34:23,050 S3: So then it definitely would now on that you could 598 00:34:23,050 --> 00:34:25,689 S3: put and I'm not sure if Texas allows this. You'd 599 00:34:25,730 --> 00:34:29,010 S3: need to check but you could do a Tod transfer 600 00:34:29,050 --> 00:34:31,410 S3: on death deed. You know, such a, you know, that 601 00:34:31,410 --> 00:34:34,850 S3: would allow your house to pass directly to name beneficiaries 602 00:34:35,050 --> 00:34:37,370 S3: if the state of Texas allows that. 603 00:34:37,810 --> 00:34:39,770 S11: So then the option to be out of probate would 604 00:34:39,770 --> 00:34:40,690 S11: be a trust. 605 00:34:41,290 --> 00:34:45,810 S3: Uh, yes, that's exactly right. Now, remember those assets that are, 606 00:34:45,850 --> 00:34:48,650 S3: you know, have the beneficiary don't count toward the estate's 607 00:34:48,690 --> 00:34:52,210 S3: value for probate purposes. But to your point, if your 608 00:34:52,210 --> 00:34:54,609 S3: home was in it, that would automatically trigger it and 609 00:34:54,610 --> 00:34:56,970 S3: it would need to go through probate. So then, yes, 610 00:34:56,969 --> 00:35:00,850 S3: your options would be if the deed is available in Texas, 611 00:35:00,850 --> 00:35:03,529 S3: you could do that and that would pull that out. 612 00:35:03,530 --> 00:35:05,489 S3: And maybe that would allow you to get below that 613 00:35:05,489 --> 00:35:09,490 S3: small estate threshold. The other option is a revocable trust 614 00:35:09,489 --> 00:35:13,160 S3: which is going to cost you somewhere between 2 and $5000. 615 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,880 S3: And then that could pass out of probate as well. 616 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,960 S11: Okay. Very good. Excellent. Thank you. 617 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,120 S3: All right. David, God bless you, my friend. Appreciate you 618 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,920 S3: being on the program. Debbie is in North Carolina. Debbie. 619 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:24,440 S3: Go ahead. 620 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:31,360 S12: I'm calling about some life insurance. My husband has a group, 621 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:36,080 S12: universal life Insurance. He he has had since his job 622 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,160 S12: he had back over 20 years ago. And I'm wanting 623 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,040 S12: to find out what's the best way. Should we keep 624 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,800 S12: that at this point? We're both right at 65. Or 625 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,920 S12: should we transfer it over or get something else? 626 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,439 S3: Yeah. Well, whenever it comes to life insurance, I think 627 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,520 S3: the first thing you need to realize is don't ever 628 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,560 S3: cancel it until you fully understand what you're giving up 629 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:03,320 S3: and what you still need. Um, but you're right. Uh, essentially, 630 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,080 S3: this is a permanent life insurance policy offered through an employer. 631 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,509 S3: You're paying the premiums through payroll deduction generally, and it 632 00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:15,229 S3: builds some cash value. But the rates are usually not 633 00:36:15,230 --> 00:36:18,950 S3: very competitive compared to policies you can buy on your own. 634 00:36:19,190 --> 00:36:22,750 S3: Many times, you know, the costs also rise pretty steeply 635 00:36:22,750 --> 00:36:27,270 S3: with age and the cash value grows very slowly. So 636 00:36:27,310 --> 00:36:29,710 S3: I think the first question is always do I still 637 00:36:29,710 --> 00:36:32,590 S3: need life insurance at all? You know, if the mortgage 638 00:36:32,590 --> 00:36:34,590 S3: is paid or close to it, the kids are grown, 639 00:36:34,590 --> 00:36:38,030 S3: you and your husband have sufficient savings and retirement income, 640 00:36:38,030 --> 00:36:40,469 S3: or you're on your way to having that, then you 641 00:36:40,469 --> 00:36:43,110 S3: may not need life insurance anymore. You know, the goal 642 00:36:43,110 --> 00:36:47,990 S3: of life insurance is to replace income or pay off obligations, 643 00:36:47,989 --> 00:36:52,470 S3: not to keep it forever. Um, except in certain situations, 644 00:36:52,510 --> 00:36:55,549 S3: you know, there are reasons to have permanent insurance if 645 00:36:55,550 --> 00:36:58,390 S3: you have a lifelong dependent or maybe you own a 646 00:36:58,390 --> 00:37:01,230 S3: business with a buy sell agreement that you're using life 647 00:37:01,230 --> 00:37:04,310 S3: insurance to fund, and you need that permanently. But for 648 00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:08,230 S3: most people, the the cost of the insurance is only 649 00:37:08,230 --> 00:37:12,550 S3: necessary to offset the risks that exist during your working years, 650 00:37:12,550 --> 00:37:14,549 S3: and then you drop it, and you hope you don't 651 00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:16,870 S3: ever have to collect on it. In the same way 652 00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:18,750 S3: you hope you don't ever have to use your homeowner's 653 00:37:18,750 --> 00:37:21,790 S3: insurance or your car insurance, but you still have it. Now, 654 00:37:21,790 --> 00:37:24,230 S3: what happens if you leave your job? Well, most group 655 00:37:24,230 --> 00:37:27,790 S3: policies end when you retire, or you can convert them 656 00:37:27,790 --> 00:37:33,030 S3: to an individual policy. And obviously, your health status matters. 657 00:37:33,230 --> 00:37:35,790 S3: You know, if you have health issues that could affect 658 00:37:35,790 --> 00:37:39,030 S3: whether you qualify for new coverage. But if you're healthy, 659 00:37:39,030 --> 00:37:41,830 S3: I would say first question is, do I need insurance? 660 00:37:41,830 --> 00:37:46,550 S3: And if yes, you can likely find cheaper private term 661 00:37:46,590 --> 00:37:51,950 S3: policies or other types of policies outside of the group policy, 662 00:37:52,350 --> 00:37:55,710 S3: you know that, uh, that could serve you better. And 663 00:37:55,710 --> 00:37:58,549 S3: if you have any cash value, you know, a lot 664 00:37:58,550 --> 00:38:01,350 S3: of times you can either take that money or roll 665 00:38:01,350 --> 00:38:05,310 S3: it into another policy without taxes. So I would say 666 00:38:05,310 --> 00:38:08,020 S3: don't cancel it yet, but review it. And I think 667 00:38:08,060 --> 00:38:10,180 S3: you're on the right track here that you could probably 668 00:38:10,219 --> 00:38:11,260 S3: find something better. 669 00:38:12,340 --> 00:38:14,260 S12: Okay, that sounds good. 670 00:38:14,420 --> 00:38:15,540 S3: All right. Thank you. Debbie. 671 00:38:15,580 --> 00:38:16,140 S12: Appreciate you. 672 00:38:16,340 --> 00:38:18,700 S3: Yes, ma'am. Thank you for calling. God bless you. Let's 673 00:38:18,700 --> 00:38:20,180 S3: go to Tennessee. Greg. Go ahead. 674 00:38:20,900 --> 00:38:24,860 S13: Uh. Yes, sir. Um, I have a question. Um, it's 675 00:38:24,860 --> 00:38:29,700 S13: regarding my retirement. I'm retired law enforcement, and we have 676 00:38:29,700 --> 00:38:36,020 S13: a system here. It's called the Tennessee Consolidated Retirement System. And, uh, 677 00:38:36,900 --> 00:38:41,899 S13: of course, I'm no longer matching that. It it draws 5% 678 00:38:41,900 --> 00:38:45,460 S13: on its own, but I work for another company that 679 00:38:45,460 --> 00:38:50,379 S13: also I have a 401 K. Um, my question is, 680 00:38:50,420 --> 00:38:55,859 S13: is do I leave my investment to my retirement for 681 00:38:55,860 --> 00:38:58,700 S13: law enforcement by itself, let it keep growing its own? 682 00:38:59,100 --> 00:39:02,500 S13: Or do I roll it over into my new company? 683 00:39:02,900 --> 00:39:06,049 S3: Yeah. Uh, it's a great question. And, you know, I 684 00:39:06,050 --> 00:39:11,050 S3: think first of all, the Tcrs is a pension plan probably. 685 00:39:11,370 --> 00:39:15,009 S3: And so if you're vested in that, if I'm understanding 686 00:39:15,050 --> 00:39:19,290 S3: what it is appropriately, um, then it'll provide a guaranteed 687 00:39:19,290 --> 00:39:23,890 S3: lifetime benefit typically calculated based on your years of service 688 00:39:23,890 --> 00:39:27,969 S3: and your salary. So that 5% you mentioned is the 689 00:39:28,010 --> 00:39:32,690 S3: interest credit or the growth rate on the contributions, not 690 00:39:32,690 --> 00:39:36,810 S3: an investment return you can manage directly. So what you 691 00:39:36,810 --> 00:39:39,530 S3: would typically do is you leave it in the tcrs 692 00:39:39,650 --> 00:39:43,970 S3: it stays protected. It continues to earn interest until you retire. 693 00:39:44,090 --> 00:39:46,450 S3: And then you're going to get a monthly pension for life, 694 00:39:46,450 --> 00:39:49,730 S3: which is a powerful form of guaranteed income. If you 695 00:39:49,730 --> 00:39:52,969 S3: move it out through a rollover, you're giving up that 696 00:39:52,969 --> 00:40:00,050 S3: lifetime income guarantee in exchange for market control and flexibility. Um, 697 00:40:00,050 --> 00:40:01,969 S3: and so I think the reason you may want to 698 00:40:01,969 --> 00:40:04,959 S3: leave it there Is it safe? And it's stable. It's 699 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,680 S3: backed by the state. The 5% interest credit is solid 700 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:14,360 S3: and it's guaranteed, and it provides a predictable pension stream later. Uh, 701 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,080 S3: the reason you would consider rolling it over is if 702 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:22,120 S3: it's a cash balance, you, you know, then you could 703 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,640 S3: assume investment control and the ability to combine the accounts, 704 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,279 S3: which creates for easier management. Um, and you might get 705 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,360 S3: more investment choices. You could get a better, potentially higher 706 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:37,160 S3: long term growth rate on it. Um, and so I 707 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,000 S3: think the first question really the key question is, is 708 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,279 S3: this money part of your pension benefit or is it 709 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:47,280 S3: a supplemental account? If it's a pension, I'd probably leave 710 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,800 S3: it for the lifetime income. If it's a cash balance 711 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,960 S3: or a defined contribution portion, then I think rolling it 712 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,320 S3: to your 401 K could make some sense, if that 713 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:00,160 S3: is helpful. 714 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,160 S13: Yes, sir. Very helpful. You know, it's a pension benefit. 715 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,279 S13: You know, I was able to match 5% on top 716 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,200 S13: of what the state matched. And then, you know, I 717 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:15,400 S13: do a 5% now. So that's what I was wondering. Uh, 718 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,560 S13: should I, you know, move it to my current and 719 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,880 S13: keep matching towards it? But, I mean, either way, I'll 720 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,400 S13: have two retirement systems. 721 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,640 S3: Yeah. And and you're contributing to that new 401 K, right? 722 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:29,520 S13: Yes, sir. 723 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,520 S3: Okay. Yeah. And you're getting 100% of the match. Are 724 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,480 S3: you contributing enough to get the full match? 725 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:36,319 S13: Yes, sir. 726 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,919 S3: Yeah. Good. So definitely do that. And then you keep 727 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,480 S3: both of these growing. You'll have one where you can 728 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,719 S3: control it and just let it grow. With the market. 729 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,400 S3: You'll have the other that's growing on that guaranteed basis 730 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,160 S3: that you can convert to an income stream later. The 731 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,920 S3: two of those working together, plus Social Security and any 732 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,480 S3: other assets are going to make for, you know, a 733 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,400 S3: really nice retirement income strategy. So I like it. 734 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,550 S13: Okay. Well, thank you very much for your time and 735 00:42:01,550 --> 00:42:02,790 S13: allowing me to be on the show. 736 00:42:02,950 --> 00:42:05,589 S3: Absolutely, Greg, Lord bless you and thanks for your service 737 00:42:05,910 --> 00:42:08,469 S3: to our to your city and to our nation. God 738 00:42:08,469 --> 00:42:10,670 S3: bless you. Well, folks, that's going to do it for us. 739 00:42:10,670 --> 00:42:12,069 S3: We covered a lot of ground. That was a lot 740 00:42:12,070 --> 00:42:14,069 S3: of fun. Thanks for being here today. Hey, let me 741 00:42:14,070 --> 00:42:17,150 S3: just encourage you here at year end. This is a 742 00:42:17,150 --> 00:42:20,270 S3: really important time for us to hear from you, uh, 743 00:42:20,310 --> 00:42:24,430 S3: through your giving to faith via listener supported ministry. Between 744 00:42:24,430 --> 00:42:26,710 S3: now and the end of the year, every gift to 745 00:42:26,750 --> 00:42:31,230 S3: Faith VI is doubled up to 175,000, and every gift 746 00:42:31,230 --> 00:42:33,509 S3: of any amount will ensure you get a copy of 747 00:42:33,510 --> 00:42:36,589 S3: my new devotional, Our Ultimate Treasure, when it comes out 748 00:42:36,590 --> 00:42:39,350 S3: early next year. I can't wait for you to get it. 749 00:42:39,350 --> 00:42:44,990 S3: Just head to faith. Com. That's faith. Com. Hey, faith 750 00:42:44,989 --> 00:42:48,550 S3: and finance is a ministry of faith. Fi and Moody Radio. 751 00:42:48,550 --> 00:42:50,950 S3: Thanks to my team today and we'll see you tomorrow. 752 00:42:50,950 --> 00:42:52,430 S3: Come back and join us then. Bye bye.