1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 S1: Hi friends. Thanks so much for downloading this podcast, and 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,520 S1: I hope truly that you will hear something that will encourage, edify, 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,200 S1: equip and enlighten you to get out there and influence 4 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:10,879 S1: and occupy until he comes. And on that note, may 5 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:12,760 S1: I take just a few moments here to describe this 6 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,800 S1: month's truth tool? It's by pastor Jack Hibbs. He's written 7 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,599 S1: the book called Called to Take a Bold Stand. I 8 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,079 S1: absolutely love this book because it reminds us that in 9 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,200 S1: Christ all things pass away. All things become new, that 10 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,760 S1: we are standing for his truth, that we have a 11 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,640 S1: new nature. Because of him, we should be living boldly. 12 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,080 S1: But far too often we retreat out of fear from 13 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,080 S1: cultural blowback. So I want to encourage all of us 14 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,519 S1: to just stand up for Christ, to be unashamed of 15 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:39,479 S1: who we are in him, and to go into a 16 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,599 S1: culture that's telling us in no uncertain terms. They're lost 17 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,720 S1: and they're hurting. So if you'd like a copy of 18 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,880 S1: Pastor Hibbs new book called Call to Take a Bold Stand, 19 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,720 S1: just give a gift of any amount by calling eight, seven, seven. 20 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,680 S1: Janet 58. We are listener supported radio, and this is 21 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,640 S1: my way of saying thank you. So that number again 22 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,200 S1: is 877 Janet 58. Or you can go online in 23 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,560 S1: the market with Janet Parshall. Go to the bottom of 24 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,280 S1: the page. There's the cover of Pastor Jack's book. Click 25 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,240 S1: it on, give a gift and you'll be good to go. 26 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:08,600 S1: And we'll send you a copy as a way of 27 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:10,800 S1: saying thank you. Don't forget, you can also become a 28 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,679 S1: partial partner. Those are people who give every single month 29 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:15,720 S1: at a level of their own choosing. My way of 30 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:17,560 S1: saying thank you to the partial partners is to make 31 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:19,920 S1: sure you get a copy of each month's truth tool, 32 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,360 S1: and you get our weekly newsletter, which includes some of 33 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,680 S1: my writing and an audio piece only for my partial partners. 34 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:27,440 S1: So whether it's a one time gift or you want 35 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,679 S1: to be an ongoing giver and become a partial partner, 36 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:31,880 S1: that's your call. But I want to thank you in advance. 37 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,160 S1: Eight seven, seven Janet 58. Or online at In the 38 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,160 S1: Market with Janet Parshall. Now please enjoy the broadcast. 39 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:42,560 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 40 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,119 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 41 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,320 S4: Americans worshiping government over God. 42 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,080 S3: Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years. 43 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,120 S5: The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated. 44 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,440 S1: Hi friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Partial. 45 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,440 S1: Thank you so much for choosing to spend the hour 46 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,080 S1: with me. All right. If you listen with any regularity. 47 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:17,839 S1: What do you hear? You hear me say? You walk 48 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,400 S1: through life with the Bible in one hand and the 49 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,120 S1: newspaper in the other, and there's a bunch of reasons 50 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,160 S1: to do that. The newspaper is important for you because 51 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,680 S1: you are part of a trans cultural missionary experience. What 52 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,079 S1: do I mean by that? Well, you're not of the world. 53 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,200 S1: You're in the world, but you're supposed to go out 54 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:35,960 S1: into the world. I know I don't get it, but 55 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,280 S1: that's what God told us to do. We are in 56 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,960 S1: a wicked and perverse generation, supposed to live our life 57 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,520 S1: like lights that shine. The Scripture tells us. So that's 58 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,240 S1: where we're supposed to go. Is it going to be easy? 59 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,480 S1: Absolutely not. But Jesus gave us wonderful comfort in so 60 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,720 S1: many ways, not the least of which was, listen, when 61 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,280 S1: they hate you, remember they hated me first and they're 62 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,600 S1: going to reject the message, and it's going to feel 63 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,959 S1: an awful lot like they're rejecting you and they're going 64 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,520 S1: to reject his truth, and it's going to be twisted, 65 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,520 S1: and it's going to be turned into a bad news story. 66 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,440 S1: And they're going to argue about it on Capitol Hill. 67 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,840 S1: And the next thing you know, you've got the headlines 68 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:10,360 S1: of the day. That's why you have to read the 69 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,360 S1: newspaper to know what is being talked about in the 70 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,600 S1: marketplace of ideas. But oh boy, oh boy, do you 71 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:16,799 S1: need the Word of God. You need a plumb line. 72 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,080 S1: The book of Amos talks about this Dwight L Moody 73 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,560 S1: called the Word of God the straight stick of truth. 74 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,920 S1: How do you measure those wicked and perverse ideas? If 75 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,000 S1: you don't have a plumb line, you need some way, 76 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,480 S1: a metric, if you will, to measure what is truth 77 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,200 S1: and what is false is what are vain and hollow philosophies, 78 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,320 S1: as it says in the book of Colossians, and what 79 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,360 S1: are good, true, and right biblical principles and precepts. You'll 80 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,000 S1: only be able to have that measuring stick, that rod, 81 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,400 S1: that metric, if you will, if you're grounded in the 82 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:46,920 S1: Word of God. And why am I giving you this 83 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:51,360 S1: 50 cent little conversation before we start? Because nowhere is 84 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,640 S1: this idea of walking through life with the Bible in 85 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,000 S1: one hand and the newspaper in the the other more 86 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,040 S1: applicable in this present age than on the topic of Israel. Oh, 87 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,960 S1: if I can use a Yiddish saying. Oh, there's so 88 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,360 S1: much confusion in what's going on out there right now. 89 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:10,160 S1: And antisemitism has been around since the beginning of time. 90 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,800 S1: I mean, can you imagine a group of people, the Jews, 91 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,480 S1: being hated simply because of who they are, not because 92 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,760 S1: of what they've done, but simply because of who they are? 93 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,440 S1: So Pharaoh and Haman and Herod and Hitler hate the 94 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,200 S1: Jews not for what they've done, but simply who they are. 95 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,040 S1: And it makes sense because underneath all of this is 96 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,359 S1: not a cabal somewhere in the Middle East. It isn't 97 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,600 S1: even a group of far right alt people who are 98 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,320 S1: groypers and want to pretend that there is no such 99 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,039 S1: thing as the nation of Israel. This is the enemy himself. 100 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,000 S1: Can you not smell the sulfur? He's still prowling, seeking 101 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,680 S1: whom he may devour. And he goes after the Jewish people. Why? 102 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,040 S1: Because you know this from Sunday School 101. Where does 103 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,040 S1: salvation come from? By the Jews. When Paul goes on 104 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,880 S1: his missionary journeys, where does he go? To the synagogues 105 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:59,120 S1: first and then to the Gentiles. And we Gentiles have 106 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,040 S1: been grafted on to the root of Jesse. And if 107 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,160 S1: you have an argument with that, when you get to eternity, 108 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,120 S1: you can have a conversation with the Lord, but it's 109 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,440 S1: good enough for me that if he said, my plan 110 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,599 S1: of salvation is going to come to mankind through the 111 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,040 S1: Jewish people, I just stand in awe that he offered 112 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,839 S1: his salvation at all, let alone through the Jewish people. 113 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,200 S1: But it's time to roll up our sleeves, and it's 114 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:19,920 S1: time to get off that diet of milk and get 115 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:21,919 S1: on a diet of meat and really get some spiritual 116 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,280 S1: heft on our bones, particularly when it comes to a 117 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:29,040 S1: covenant keeping God a covenant without conditions. And that's what 118 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,280 S1: this is all about. Well, I'm getting ahead of myself. 119 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,760 S1: You have a far greater teacher than I could ever 120 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,200 S1: be with us this hour. Doctor Charles Dyer. This is 121 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,280 S1: a man who has served for 35 years on the 122 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,400 S1: faculty and in the administration of not one, but three 123 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:47,840 S1: different institutions, including 20 years at Dallas Theological Seminary and 124 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,160 S1: ten years as provost at Moody Bible Institute. In 2010, 125 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,720 S1: he became a professor of professor at large, rather at 126 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,560 S1: Moody from Moody Bible Institute and host of a fabulous 127 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,640 S1: radio program I hope you all listen to Called The 128 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,080 S1: Land and the book. It's heard on hundreds of stations 129 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,440 S1: all across the United States. And for much of his 130 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,240 S1: time as ministry, he has taken groups to Israel and 131 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,880 S1: other parts of the Bible and other lands of the Bible. 132 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,280 S1: In addition to his speaking and teaching and guiding, he 133 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:16,640 S1: has authored or co-authored numerous books, including The Rise of Babylon, 134 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,479 S1: What's Next, The Christian Traveler's Guide to the Holy Land. 135 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,359 S1: I actually took that book with me and one of 136 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,520 S1: my many trips to Israel as well. It was like 137 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,000 S1: a travel guide. Forget Fodor's, you need Dyer. It's much 138 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,560 S1: better when you travel, but it's one of the books 139 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,360 S1: that's so germane to the days in which we live 140 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,160 S1: right now is called Who Owns the Land? An in-depth 141 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,680 S1: look at the truth behind the Middle East conflict. Oh, Charlie, 142 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,680 S1: I got a gazillion questions. I hope you got comfortable 143 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,400 S1: shoes on because we're going to walk a long way 144 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:41,000 S1: this hour. 145 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,599 S6: I'm ready. Janet, it's always fun to be with you. Thanks. 146 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:46,760 S1: Thank you so much for being here. All right. Let 147 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,679 S1: me start, if I can, with an article that came up. Um, 148 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,680 S1: this is The Hague and I'm going to do their geopolitics. 149 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:54,120 S1: This is going to be the newspaper part of our 150 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,920 S1: conversation as well as the Bible part, but the newspaper part. 151 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,919 S1: So the US is going to intervene in the, quote, 152 00:06:59,960 --> 00:07:04,280 S1: genocide case against Israel that's been brought at the United 153 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,800 S1: Nation's largest court by South Africa. I'm very sad to 154 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,200 S1: report that other nations have joined in. Just this week, 155 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,240 S1: the Netherlands and Iceland of all places have joined, saying 156 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:19,280 S1: that Israel should stand trial for, quote, genocide. Um, evidence 157 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,840 S1: yet to be produced. But that's their claim anyway, arguing 158 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,520 S1: that the accusations are false. This is the US now 159 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,280 S1: and warning that a ruling against Israel could undermine international law. 160 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,000 S1: It's why. Thank you Lord. The US is not a 161 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,800 S1: part of the International Criminal Court. We have our own jurisprudence. 162 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,720 S1: We don't bow in acquiescence to an international court. So 163 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,720 S1: since late 2023, the International Court of Justice has been 164 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:43,720 S1: considering whether Israel's military operations in Gaza, launched in response 165 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,960 S1: to the October 7th attack amount to genocide under a 166 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,640 S1: treaty drawn up after World War Two. So rather than 167 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,200 S1: the world saying this was their nine over 11, this 168 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,360 S1: was catastrophic. If you do it as a comp, between 169 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,120 S1: how many lives we lost in the US on nine 170 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,880 S1: over 11 versus how many lives were lost October 7th 171 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:04,120 S1: and 2023. Their proportionality would be greater than ours. One 172 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,080 S1: would have thought that would have created a sympathy and 173 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,480 S1: a better understanding for the Jewish people. And instead, Charlie, 174 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,480 S1: I feel like it opened the gates of hell and 175 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,480 S1: anti-Semitism spiked. What's your take on that? 176 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,760 S6: You're absolutely right, Janet. In fact, what I would end 177 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,920 S6: up saying is most of them who call evil good 178 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,200 S6: and good evil. When they threw out the charge of genocide, 179 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,600 S6: there was genocide. It was committed by Hamas, who came 180 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,840 S6: into Israel on October 7th and targeted Jews just for 181 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,880 S6: being Jews. They targeted women and children just for being Jewish. 182 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,520 S6: That's genocide. That's the attempt to wipe out a group 183 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,280 S6: just because of who they are. Israel responded by going 184 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:47,080 S6: after Hamas, which surrounded itself with its own people, using 185 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,960 S6: them as human hostages, hiding out underneath all of the, uh. 186 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:55,359 S6: Hospitals and mosques. Uh, Israel was going after the Hamas, 187 00:08:55,360 --> 00:09:00,240 S6: but sadly, some innocents were were killed. Israel didn't target them, though. 188 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:01,520 S6: They targeted Hamas. 189 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,959 S1: Exactly. Right. Well, we're just getting started, and you really 190 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,200 S1: do need to get the book. Who owns the land? 191 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,439 S1: It is written by Doctor Charlie Dyer. And I have 192 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,640 S1: to tell you, he wrote this some time ago. It's 193 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,920 S1: now been updated and revised. Why? Because. Because Israel's always 194 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:16,680 S1: in the news. And quite frankly, it's always going to 195 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,000 S1: be in the news. So get your thinking caps on 196 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,520 S1: and get ready to think biblically and critically this hour 197 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,520 S1: as we take a deeper look at the nation of 198 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,280 S1: Israel and the character of God, does he keep his promises? 199 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,520 S1: And is there such a thing as an unconditional covenant? 200 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,880 S1: And if it is, does that apply to Israel? Back 201 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:47,439 S1: after this. The Bible calls us to be bold and 202 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,480 S1: courageous for the cause of the cross. But too often 203 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,360 S1: we retreat because of fear of cultural blowback. That's why 204 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,439 S1: I've chosen call to take a bold stand as this 205 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,079 S1: month's truth tool discover how to overcome the fear of 206 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,240 S1: intimidation or persecution. As for your copy of call to 207 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:01,880 S1: take a bold stand when you give a gift of 208 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,160 S1: any amount to in the market, call 877. Janet 58. 209 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,400 S1: That's 877. Janet 58. Or go to in the market 210 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,880 S1: with Janet dot o r g. So in continuing our 211 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,760 S1: conversation with Doctor Charles Dyer, host of The Land and 212 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:17,720 S1: the book, I hope you listen. And because of all 213 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,680 S1: the great technology we've got, you can listen anytime, anywhere. 214 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,480 S1: So check it out. But also a prolific author and well, 215 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,079 S1: wouldn't you love to take a tour to Israel with 216 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,360 S1: Doctor Dyer? It would be fabulous. So we were talking 217 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,319 S1: about anti-Semitism in our first segment together and it literally 218 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,720 S1: has spiked. Not I didn't see that one coming at all. 219 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,440 S1: Spiked after October 7th, 2023. And if you start looking 220 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,240 S1: at some of the numbers, they're really just unconscionable in 221 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,600 S1: the U.S., according to the ADL, the Anti-Defamation League. They've 222 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:51,800 S1: documented over 10,000 incidents between October 2023 and September 2024. 223 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,040 S1: That is the highest number since they started tracking in 1979. 224 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,120 S1: Europe has experienced a wave of anti-Semitism with significant increases 225 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:03,400 S1: in France, Germany, the UK. In Belgium, authorities increased security 226 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,440 S1: around Jewish sites following increased tension in 2024, we saw 227 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,480 S1: significant spikes in violence assaults up 21% from the previous year. 228 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,920 S1: And here, even in the capital, Washington DC, a young 229 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,000 S1: couple were at a Jewish event and they were shot 230 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:22,320 S1: at point blank range. Outside the event, it's just absolutely stunning. So, Charlie, 231 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,200 S1: let me just linger a little bit on kind of 232 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,640 S1: the geopolitics as a background before we get into the 233 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,199 S1: biblical response for all of this. So the spike takes place. 234 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:34,600 S1: The genesis of this from a mortal's perspective is this 235 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,360 S1: false interpretation of what happened. These were people enjoying a 236 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,080 S1: music festival and they were slaughtered. There's no other word 237 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,870 S1: for it. And somehow Satan takes that, turns it around 238 00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:46,189 S1: and then talks about the aggressor being Israel, not Hamas 239 00:11:46,190 --> 00:11:49,710 S1: and their allies that went in and just destroyed these lives. 240 00:11:50,110 --> 00:11:52,710 S1: But what we're seeing now is a response to this, 241 00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:54,950 S1: is this never ending form of harassment. You know, I 242 00:11:54,950 --> 00:11:58,430 S1: wasn't around in the late 30s when anti-Semitism was starting 243 00:11:58,429 --> 00:12:02,589 S1: to rise in the European continent, but it didn't go 244 00:12:02,590 --> 00:12:06,910 S1: from nothing to the camps. It started with incrementally, incrementally 245 00:12:06,910 --> 00:12:10,350 S1: moved its way forward, writing Uden outside the stores, identifying 246 00:12:10,350 --> 00:12:13,470 S1: people by making them wear yellow stars, creating ghettos like 247 00:12:13,470 --> 00:12:16,309 S1: they did in Warsaw. And eventually the trains came and 248 00:12:16,309 --> 00:12:18,790 S1: took them to the ovens. So is it not imperative 249 00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:21,510 S1: that we understand that we have to shout never again 250 00:12:21,510 --> 00:12:24,070 S1: now before we wait for things to get worse, we've 251 00:12:24,070 --> 00:12:28,750 S1: already had synagogues assaulted. Just recently, a man, a deranged man, 252 00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:32,030 S1: plows into a synagogue and only by God's mercy. That 253 00:12:32,030 --> 00:12:34,350 S1: place was also a daycare center. And no children were 254 00:12:34,350 --> 00:12:35,910 S1: in that part of the building. And thanks to a 255 00:12:35,910 --> 00:12:39,350 S1: local hero who worked at the temple, he managed to 256 00:12:39,390 --> 00:12:41,350 S1: make sure that that man was never going to hurt 257 00:12:41,350 --> 00:12:45,470 S1: anybody else again. So this is the the rapidity, the 258 00:12:45,470 --> 00:12:48,310 S1: acceleration and the variance is stunning to me. Talk to 259 00:12:48,309 --> 00:12:49,069 S1: me about this. 260 00:12:49,710 --> 00:12:51,750 S6: You're absolutely right. In fact, I think what part of 261 00:12:51,750 --> 00:12:54,870 S6: the problem is Americans are historically bad when it comes 262 00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:59,670 S6: to history and geography. You know, the generation today looks 263 00:12:59,670 --> 00:13:03,430 S6: at the Gulf War in 1991 as ancient history, let 264 00:13:03,429 --> 00:13:06,150 S6: alone World War Two. But we don't know history and 265 00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:11,190 S6: we don't know geography, and yet we're so important. Well, 266 00:13:11,230 --> 00:13:14,510 S6: news is important, sadly. And you kept mentioning newspapers. Newspapers 267 00:13:14,510 --> 00:13:17,429 S6: are good because at least for most of them, they 268 00:13:17,429 --> 00:13:20,670 S6: have to report facts and verify they have an editorial staff. 269 00:13:20,830 --> 00:13:23,390 S6: But most people are going to social media and they're 270 00:13:23,390 --> 00:13:25,709 S6: getting their news from fake news from social media. And 271 00:13:25,710 --> 00:13:29,950 S6: the words that got bandied about immediately were genocide, colonialism, 272 00:13:30,270 --> 00:13:34,150 S6: attacks on indigenous people, and they were all directed against 273 00:13:34,150 --> 00:13:37,270 S6: Israel who were in fact the indigenous people, who were 274 00:13:37,270 --> 00:13:40,070 S6: the ones who were victims of genocide. But the words 275 00:13:40,070 --> 00:13:44,590 S6: got twisted around. And because Americans don't know history. They 276 00:13:44,710 --> 00:13:47,150 S6: accepted what they were hearing on social media and began 277 00:13:47,150 --> 00:13:50,230 S6: following it. We need to have the ability to know 278 00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:53,870 S6: what truth is, to find reliable sources. And then once 279 00:13:53,870 --> 00:13:55,950 S6: we do, to have the courage to stand up and say, no, 280 00:13:55,950 --> 00:13:58,109 S6: that's not right. That's not what happened. 281 00:13:58,630 --> 00:13:59,550 S1: Yeah, exactly. 282 00:13:59,590 --> 00:14:02,310 S6: Right. Yes. I was going to say sadly, too few 283 00:14:02,309 --> 00:14:03,030 S6: did that. 284 00:14:03,070 --> 00:14:08,390 S1: Yeah, 1,000%. So where does it end? Movements, by the 285 00:14:08,390 --> 00:14:11,150 S1: very definition have a way of going somewhere. This this 286 00:14:11,150 --> 00:14:14,070 S1: just doesn't keep going. And then dissipate one day. This 287 00:14:14,070 --> 00:14:16,670 S1: builds to a crescendo. And people have said if we 288 00:14:16,710 --> 00:14:19,070 S1: don't stop this now, lives are going to be lost. Well, Charlie, 289 00:14:19,070 --> 00:14:21,470 S1: we've already lost lives. And I just keep wondering how 290 00:14:21,470 --> 00:14:23,430 S1: many more and what is it going to take to 291 00:14:23,470 --> 00:14:24,470 S1: turn this around? 292 00:14:25,070 --> 00:14:28,270 S6: Well, and sadly, we know the end result is there's 293 00:14:28,270 --> 00:14:30,230 S6: coming a time on this world when Satan is going 294 00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:32,190 S6: to try and have free reign, and he's going to 295 00:14:32,190 --> 00:14:36,790 S6: try and wipe out the nation of Israel. Genesis chapter 12. Uh, 296 00:14:36,790 --> 00:14:39,990 S6: the woman clothed with the sun, moon, and stars. And 297 00:14:40,030 --> 00:14:41,710 S6: Satan's going to go after her to wipe her out. 298 00:14:41,710 --> 00:14:44,870 S6: That's always been his motive. We also know historically how 299 00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:47,990 S6: this ends. If it's not, if it stops, not put 300 00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:49,870 S6: to it. Because of what happened in World War Two, 301 00:14:50,190 --> 00:14:53,450 S6: it led to a mass murder of over six, 6.5 302 00:14:53,450 --> 00:14:57,030 S6: million Jews. And it didn't stop until nations got involved 303 00:14:57,030 --> 00:15:00,070 S6: to stop the madman who was in charge of it all. 304 00:15:00,870 --> 00:15:03,790 S6: And that's another historical thing. Sadly, right now we're watching 305 00:15:03,790 --> 00:15:07,430 S6: with an Iranian madman, and so many nations in the 306 00:15:07,430 --> 00:15:10,190 S6: world are afraid to get involved. So it's really the 307 00:15:10,190 --> 00:15:12,470 S6: United States and Israel that are doing the heavy lifting 308 00:15:12,630 --> 00:15:15,710 S6: to stop what needs to be stopped for the sake 309 00:15:15,710 --> 00:15:16,390 S6: of the world. 310 00:15:16,830 --> 00:15:18,710 S1: I'm so glad you took us there. Let me ask you, 311 00:15:18,710 --> 00:15:20,150 S1: as a brother in the Lord, what goes through your 312 00:15:20,150 --> 00:15:22,430 S1: mind when you hear people say that the U.S. is 313 00:15:22,430 --> 00:15:24,550 S1: responding to the beck and call of Israel on this 314 00:15:24,550 --> 00:15:25,550 S1: Iran situation? 315 00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:29,070 S6: I go back to and again, I'm old enough and 316 00:15:29,230 --> 00:15:32,510 S6: I go back to when the your the Islamic regime 317 00:15:32,510 --> 00:15:37,550 S6: took over in 1979. Uh, amazingly, it was the US 318 00:15:37,550 --> 00:15:40,110 S6: embassy that was attacked. It was the. In there, the 319 00:15:40,150 --> 00:15:44,710 S6: hostages held for 444 days. It was the Marine barracks 320 00:15:44,710 --> 00:15:48,910 S6: in Beirut that was bombed that killed over 200 US soldiers. Uh, 321 00:15:48,990 --> 00:15:52,950 S6: we're we've been at war with Iran since 1979. We've 322 00:15:52,950 --> 00:15:56,630 S6: just been unwilling to admit it. Uh, and their goal 323 00:15:56,630 --> 00:15:59,470 S6: is death to America. We're the great Satan in their minds. 324 00:15:59,510 --> 00:16:03,030 S6: Israel's just the the little Satan. So if we don't 325 00:16:03,030 --> 00:16:06,870 S6: stop them now, when will we and you stop them 326 00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:09,550 S6: before they get nuclear weapons or before they develop the 327 00:16:09,710 --> 00:16:13,790 S6: technology to deliver those to the United States? Yeah. Uh, yeah, 328 00:16:13,790 --> 00:16:15,470 S6: it's a lot easier to do it right now, like 329 00:16:15,470 --> 00:16:18,110 S6: we're doing it. And yet people try and blame again 330 00:16:18,110 --> 00:16:20,950 S6: Israel for everything as if it's the tail wagging the dog. 331 00:16:22,030 --> 00:16:24,350 S1: So true. What do you respond or how do you 332 00:16:24,350 --> 00:16:27,270 S1: respond when people say, what are the American interests? You know, 333 00:16:27,310 --> 00:16:30,190 S1: the great isolationist perspective that says there are no American 334 00:16:30,190 --> 00:16:33,310 S1: interests here? Well, you just ticked off some historical ones 335 00:16:33,310 --> 00:16:35,910 S1: that I would say give basis to believe that there 336 00:16:35,910 --> 00:16:38,230 S1: is a preponderance of evidence here that the United States 337 00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:40,710 S1: security is very much in the crosshairs, as much as 338 00:16:40,750 --> 00:16:42,390 S1: Israel it is. 339 00:16:42,430 --> 00:16:44,750 S6: And the other one I would say is, what are 340 00:16:44,750 --> 00:16:47,230 S6: you paying at your gas pump right now? Because Iran 341 00:16:47,230 --> 00:16:49,270 S6: decided to try and stop the flow of oil out 342 00:16:49,270 --> 00:16:52,870 S6: of the Straits of Hormuz. It affects not us directly, 343 00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:56,230 S6: but it affects us indirectly. And certainly our allies are affected. 344 00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:59,990 S6: And if we, Iran, can turn our allies against us, uh, 345 00:16:59,990 --> 00:17:02,350 S6: by doing that. And if we're unwilling to get involved, 346 00:17:02,350 --> 00:17:03,430 S6: we'll pay the price. 347 00:17:03,470 --> 00:17:06,149 S1: Yeah, 1,000%. And we could talk the rest of the 348 00:17:06,150 --> 00:17:09,590 S1: hour about energy independence. But let me just underscore, there's 349 00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:11,830 S1: a reason why we want to be independent when it 350 00:17:11,830 --> 00:17:13,950 S1: comes to our energy source. And we've got a whole 351 00:17:13,950 --> 00:17:16,630 S1: lot of natural fossil fuel here in the United States. 352 00:17:16,910 --> 00:17:20,190 S1: But being held by the toes, by the Strait of Hormuz. 353 00:17:20,190 --> 00:17:22,790 S1: So you cannot get access to oil, that's why you're 354 00:17:22,790 --> 00:17:25,149 S1: paying what you're paying. It will come down. But during 355 00:17:25,150 --> 00:17:27,550 S1: this continuous war, it's going to stay up there for 356 00:17:27,550 --> 00:17:29,469 S1: a bit. When we get back, let's roll up our 357 00:17:29,470 --> 00:17:32,070 S1: sleeves and really get into what we with the newspaper. 358 00:17:32,109 --> 00:17:34,030 S1: Now let's what to get the word. What does the 359 00:17:34,030 --> 00:17:36,390 S1: word have to say about the nation of Israel back 360 00:17:36,390 --> 00:17:55,910 S1: after this? After Charles Dyer is with us, he is 361 00:17:55,910 --> 00:17:57,869 S1: the host of The Land and the book. He's a 362 00:17:57,869 --> 00:18:01,750 S1: very prolific author, written on multiple issues and is a 363 00:18:01,750 --> 00:18:03,310 S1: travel guide. If you ever get a chance to travel 364 00:18:03,310 --> 00:18:06,310 S1: to Israel with Charlie, you would really regret it if 365 00:18:06,310 --> 00:18:08,510 S1: you didn't take up that opportunity. A lot of our 366 00:18:08,510 --> 00:18:11,149 S1: conversation today emanates from one of his newer books. Actually, 367 00:18:11,150 --> 00:18:13,510 S1: it was older, but it's been revised and updated. It's 368 00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:16,350 S1: called Who Owns the Land, and it is an in-depth 369 00:18:16,350 --> 00:18:18,950 S1: look at the truth behind the Middle East conflict. Charlie, 370 00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:21,230 S1: this harkens back to something earlier you said that really 371 00:18:21,230 --> 00:18:23,590 S1: were ignorant. We just we don't know our recent history. 372 00:18:23,590 --> 00:18:26,950 S1: We don't know Bible history. And so we get confused 373 00:18:26,950 --> 00:18:30,390 S1: and we're taken captive by vain and hollow philosophies that 374 00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:33,149 S1: we see on social media platform and we don't know 375 00:18:33,150 --> 00:18:35,109 S1: the facts. I, I love these man on the street 376 00:18:35,109 --> 00:18:38,149 S1: interviews when they'll say they'll ask him questions about Israel 377 00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:39,950 S1: from the river to the sea, for example, they can't 378 00:18:39,950 --> 00:18:41,630 S1: name the river and they don't know what sea you're 379 00:18:41,630 --> 00:18:43,590 S1: talking about, but they just get up and chant it. 380 00:18:43,790 --> 00:18:45,950 S1: So let me go into the biblical part of this, 381 00:18:45,950 --> 00:18:48,669 S1: because I think this is the fascinating conversation. And actually, 382 00:18:48,670 --> 00:18:51,030 S1: without it, you're ignorant when it comes to what's happening 383 00:18:51,030 --> 00:18:53,149 S1: in the world. So let me start first with a 384 00:18:53,150 --> 00:18:56,669 S1: question that is working its way out in various iterations 385 00:18:56,670 --> 00:18:59,830 S1: right now. And that is, is there a distinction from 386 00:18:59,869 --> 00:19:02,590 S1: how you see it biblically between the Jewish people and 387 00:19:02,590 --> 00:19:03,670 S1: the nation of Israel? 388 00:19:04,830 --> 00:19:08,310 S6: Uh, no, that's the short answer. And I'll explain why 389 00:19:08,590 --> 00:19:10,350 S6: those who are trying to make that distinction are trying 390 00:19:10,350 --> 00:19:13,230 S6: to somehow say, well, the people who are in Israel today, 391 00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:17,350 S6: the modern Israelis have no ethnic connection to the Jewish people. 392 00:19:17,670 --> 00:19:20,950 S6: Which of the Bible. And in reality, that's not true. 393 00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:25,030 S6: The Ashkenazi, the Western European Jews who came to Israel 394 00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:28,510 S6: are genetically linked, uh, to the Jews who were in 395 00:19:28,510 --> 00:19:31,150 S6: the land already, in fact, that they're not the only Jews. 396 00:19:31,150 --> 00:19:34,910 S6: They're the minority in Israel. They're also the Sephardic Jews 397 00:19:34,910 --> 00:19:38,190 S6: and Mizrahi Jews from the Middle East, from the North 398 00:19:38,190 --> 00:19:42,070 S6: Africa region. Uh, they, they are genetically linked with the 399 00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:45,390 S6: Ashkenazi Jews, and they can trace their lineage back to 400 00:19:45,430 --> 00:19:50,670 S6: the Bible. Biblical times. So, uh, genetically they're linked. Um, they've, 401 00:19:50,830 --> 00:19:53,670 S6: they've been historically there. They have the, uh, the, the 402 00:19:53,710 --> 00:19:57,710 S6: social background. In fact, when they, uh, celebrate Passover next 403 00:19:57,710 --> 00:20:00,750 S6: year in Jerusalem, uh, which has been going on for 404 00:20:00,790 --> 00:20:02,750 S6: thousands of years, they, they were a group who lived 405 00:20:02,790 --> 00:20:05,830 S6: there who were expelled and having this collective memory of theirs, 406 00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:08,510 S6: that that is where we're to be. And next year, perhaps, 407 00:20:08,550 --> 00:20:11,590 S6: Lord willing, that's where we'll be. Uh, so everything connects. 408 00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:16,470 S6: And I think again, it's a rather poorly designed argument, uh, but, uh, 409 00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:19,669 S6: one that's, that's caught, uh, a lot of people's attention 410 00:20:19,670 --> 00:20:21,429 S6: because they don't know so much. In fact, if I 411 00:20:21,470 --> 00:20:23,750 S6: can say something here, if anybody wants to do some 412 00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:25,790 S6: research just for the fun of it, uh, there was 413 00:20:25,790 --> 00:20:28,109 S6: a fellow we had on, on faculty at Moody Bible 414 00:20:28,109 --> 00:20:31,870 S6: Institute named Michael Wechsler. W w e c h s 415 00:20:31,869 --> 00:20:37,310 S6: l e r. Absolutely brilliant individual. He put out a note. 416 00:20:37,310 --> 00:20:41,270 S6: In fact, if you Google Wechsler fabrication of history, that's 417 00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:44,350 S6: all you have to do. Wechsler fabrication of history. You'll 418 00:20:44,350 --> 00:20:47,510 S6: come across an online interview he did and a paper 419 00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:50,949 S6: he did. And he just demolishes all the arguments that 420 00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:54,109 S6: people are trying to raise against the the Jewish people 421 00:20:54,109 --> 00:20:55,750 S6: and the Jewish connection to the land. 422 00:20:57,030 --> 00:20:58,990 S1: Thank you for that reference, and I hope people will 423 00:20:58,990 --> 00:21:01,710 S1: follow your suggestion on that. Well, let's just talk about 424 00:21:01,710 --> 00:21:03,270 S1: the land a little bit. You do this and who 425 00:21:03,270 --> 00:21:05,550 S1: owns the land when you realize that, first of all, 426 00:21:05,550 --> 00:21:07,389 S1: the deed was given in the book of Genesis, you 427 00:21:07,390 --> 00:21:10,070 S1: read it again in Deuteronomy. That takes us to this 428 00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:16,070 S1: idea of covenants conditional versus unconditional covenants. A what is 429 00:21:16,070 --> 00:21:20,990 S1: an unconditional covenant and what unconditional covenant, covenant did God 430 00:21:20,990 --> 00:21:22,230 S1: make to the Jewish people? 431 00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:26,350 S6: Well, in terms of the the unconditional covenant, you know, 432 00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:29,390 S6: Genesis 12, God made a covenant, but in Genesis 15, 433 00:21:29,430 --> 00:21:32,030 S6: he ratified it. That's where he signed on the bottom line, 434 00:21:32,030 --> 00:21:34,550 S6: if you will. If it was a conditional covenant, God 435 00:21:34,550 --> 00:21:37,510 S6: would have said, we're cutting these animals apart. And Abraham, 436 00:21:37,510 --> 00:21:39,830 S6: you'll walk through and I'll walk through and I'll do 437 00:21:39,869 --> 00:21:41,869 S6: my part if you'll do your part. But he didn't 438 00:21:41,869 --> 00:21:45,070 S6: do that. When God made the covenant in Genesis 15, 439 00:21:45,109 --> 00:21:48,470 S6: the animals were cut apart. God and God alone walk 440 00:21:48,510 --> 00:21:50,430 S6: through the the parts of the animal and in essence, 441 00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:53,990 S6: God was saying, I pledge on my life as God 442 00:21:54,350 --> 00:21:58,030 S6: that I will fulfill what I'm promising to you. That's unconditional. 443 00:21:58,030 --> 00:22:00,670 S6: And that's why throughout the rest of the Bible, whenever 444 00:22:00,670 --> 00:22:03,790 S6: you read about that covenant that God made, it's it's 445 00:22:03,790 --> 00:22:06,510 S6: incredible what he said. I, I love to teach the 446 00:22:06,510 --> 00:22:09,350 S6: Old Testament prophets. That's what I taught for years. And 447 00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:11,550 S6: I get to things like Micah. The book of Micah 448 00:22:11,590 --> 00:22:14,550 S6: ends with with Micah saying, there's a future for Israel. 449 00:22:14,990 --> 00:22:17,709 S6: He says, you'll be compassionate. You'll have you'll tread our 450 00:22:17,710 --> 00:22:19,989 S6: sins underfoot. You'll take care of the problems and the 451 00:22:19,990 --> 00:22:23,070 S6: reason why the last verse, you'll be true to Jacob 452 00:22:23,070 --> 00:22:25,950 S6: and show mercy to Abraham as you pledged on oath 453 00:22:26,070 --> 00:22:29,230 S6: to our fathers in days long ago. Micah said there's 454 00:22:29,230 --> 00:22:32,190 S6: a future for our people because, God, you made a promise. 455 00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:33,070 S1: Yeah. Amen. 456 00:22:33,109 --> 00:22:37,270 S6: That's that's the ultimate basis for an unconditional covenant. And 457 00:22:37,270 --> 00:22:39,550 S6: it's what Israel's future is based on, which I love. 458 00:22:39,590 --> 00:22:42,470 S6: By the way, because what's our hope for heaven? It's 459 00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:45,149 S6: that God made a promise to us. And if God's 460 00:22:45,150 --> 00:22:47,430 S6: in the in the habit of going back on his 461 00:22:47,430 --> 00:22:50,229 S6: covenant that he made with Israel, then what's to say 462 00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:51,670 S6: he won't do the same for us? 463 00:22:51,710 --> 00:22:54,510 S1: Oh! Amen. Preach it. And that. This is why the 464 00:22:54,510 --> 00:22:57,510 S1: core of this issue. This is a frustrating but fascinating 465 00:22:57,510 --> 00:23:00,270 S1: conversation at the same time. And those are the best 466 00:23:00,270 --> 00:23:03,230 S1: kind from where I'm sitting. So if this is about 467 00:23:03,230 --> 00:23:06,470 S1: the character of God, if you call into account the covenant, 468 00:23:06,510 --> 00:23:09,710 S1: the unconditional covenant that God made with the Jewish people, 469 00:23:09,710 --> 00:23:12,590 S1: you are quite frankly, calling into account the character of 470 00:23:12,590 --> 00:23:15,990 S1: God and an unconditional covenant. If I understand this, Charlie, 471 00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:19,430 S1: is that nothing is predicated on us. It's reflective of 472 00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:21,310 S1: the character of God, am I right? 473 00:23:21,550 --> 00:23:24,150 S6: Oh, absolutely. In fact, I love it. The one place 474 00:23:24,150 --> 00:23:27,510 S6: in the New Testament where where the Apostle Paul talks 475 00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:30,670 S6: about the relationship of Israel and the church. He comes 476 00:23:30,670 --> 00:23:33,030 S6: to the very end and he says, uh, right now 477 00:23:33,030 --> 00:23:35,550 S6: there's there are problems. There are enemies because of the gospel. 478 00:23:35,550 --> 00:23:37,550 S6: But but he says, but they're loved on account of 479 00:23:37,550 --> 00:23:41,150 S6: the patriarchs. That's Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, because God's gifts 480 00:23:41,150 --> 00:23:44,590 S6: and his call are irrevocable. And Paul goes on and 481 00:23:44,590 --> 00:23:47,109 S6: he's really talking about the sovereignty of God, the character 482 00:23:47,109 --> 00:23:49,869 S6: of God, and it's the character of God for the 483 00:23:50,070 --> 00:23:52,270 S6: Israel and the promises God made to them. That's the 484 00:23:52,270 --> 00:23:54,669 S6: same character that God makes to us. And that's where 485 00:23:54,670 --> 00:23:57,150 S6: we have to start with the character of God, which 486 00:23:57,150 --> 00:23:59,430 S6: is why I'm a firm believer in the future for Israel, 487 00:23:59,470 --> 00:24:01,030 S6: because God made a promise. 488 00:24:01,070 --> 00:24:03,510 S1: Yes. Oh. Amen. What a place to take a break. 489 00:24:03,510 --> 00:24:04,909 S1: Let me pick it up at that point when we 490 00:24:04,950 --> 00:24:07,550 S1: come back, because again, that's why this is such a 491 00:24:07,550 --> 00:24:10,669 S1: fascinating and important conversation. It isn't what's happening in the 492 00:24:10,670 --> 00:24:14,390 S1: geopolitical realm. It's understanding in the spiritual realm what is 493 00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:16,390 S1: going on. And by the way, in reference to what's 494 00:24:16,390 --> 00:24:19,310 S1: going on in Iran, everything they're doing comes out of 495 00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:21,950 S1: their eschatology. We've said this over and over again, you're 496 00:24:21,950 --> 00:24:24,150 S1: not going to get it on the alphabet soup networks. 497 00:24:24,350 --> 00:24:28,310 S1: Their goal is the entire Islamization of the world that 498 00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:33,550 S1: happens there. Their Messiah shows up and their end game begins. 499 00:24:33,670 --> 00:24:36,550 S1: So for them, this is a theological war not done 500 00:24:36,550 --> 00:24:39,070 S1: at a Department of War press conference. You're not going 501 00:24:39,109 --> 00:24:41,270 S1: to hear that. But that's where they're coming from. You 502 00:24:41,270 --> 00:24:55,950 S1: need to know that back after this. Going through life 503 00:24:55,950 --> 00:24:57,750 S1: with the Bible in one hand and the newspaper and 504 00:24:57,750 --> 00:24:59,510 S1: the other is essential for each of us on our 505 00:24:59,510 --> 00:25:01,189 S1: walk with Christ. And that's what we do on in 506 00:25:01,230 --> 00:25:04,230 S1: the market. We examine culture, interpret the headlines, and look 507 00:25:04,230 --> 00:25:06,630 S1: at the news from a biblical perspective. When you become 508 00:25:06,630 --> 00:25:09,630 S1: a partial partner, you're directly responsible for putting this program 509 00:25:09,630 --> 00:25:12,070 S1: on the air. Reaching men and women across America with 510 00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:15,109 S1: the practical application of God's Word. Become a partial partner 511 00:25:15,109 --> 00:25:17,950 S1: today by calling eight seven, seven Janet 58 or go 512 00:25:17,950 --> 00:25:22,310 S1: to in the market with Janet Parshall. Let an honor 513 00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:24,630 S1: and a joy to spend time with Doctor Charlie Dyer. 514 00:25:24,670 --> 00:25:27,550 S1: He served as Provost and dean of education at Moody 515 00:25:27,550 --> 00:25:31,389 S1: Bible Institute before he became professor at large of Bible 516 00:25:31,590 --> 00:25:33,949 S1: at Moody, and now currently hosts the lands in the 517 00:25:33,950 --> 00:25:36,429 S1: book radio program heard on hundreds of stations across the 518 00:25:36,430 --> 00:25:38,990 S1: country before it came to Moody. He served for 20 519 00:25:38,990 --> 00:25:43,550 S1: years in multiple different places and at the Dallas Theological Seminary, 520 00:25:43,550 --> 00:25:47,270 S1: ultimately serving as the executive VP under Chuck Swindoll. Uh, 521 00:25:47,270 --> 00:25:50,190 S1: his wonderful writing is something that you and I should 522 00:25:50,190 --> 00:25:53,030 S1: be deeply enmeshed in. One of his more important books, 523 00:25:53,030 --> 00:25:55,709 S1: especially in these latter days, is called Who Owns the Land, 524 00:25:55,830 --> 00:25:58,310 S1: an in-depth look at the truth Behind the Middle East conflict, 525 00:25:58,350 --> 00:26:00,350 S1: and it will help you make sense out of the headlines. 526 00:26:00,510 --> 00:26:02,230 S1: But we're going to linger in what the Bible has 527 00:26:02,230 --> 00:26:04,910 S1: to say. So I'm so glad that you talked about 528 00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:08,870 S1: what it is to have, um, an unconditional covenant. So 529 00:26:08,869 --> 00:26:10,870 S1: that raises a couple of issues. Number one, it's why 530 00:26:10,869 --> 00:26:12,949 S1: we should take umbrage when we have people among us 531 00:26:12,950 --> 00:26:14,669 S1: who say that we should disconnect the old from the 532 00:26:14,670 --> 00:26:18,270 S1: New Testament. To do that is an abject abandonment of 533 00:26:18,270 --> 00:26:21,189 S1: biblical truth, a because Jesus is there from Genesis all 534 00:26:21,190 --> 00:26:23,270 S1: the way through to revelation. So why would you cut 535 00:26:23,270 --> 00:26:26,350 S1: that body of work in half? But number two, and 536 00:26:26,350 --> 00:26:28,189 S1: this is just one of a gazillion reasons why we 537 00:26:28,190 --> 00:26:30,710 S1: shouldn't do this. But number two is you don't understand 538 00:26:30,710 --> 00:26:34,190 S1: when you see an unconditional covenant, it works its way 539 00:26:34,190 --> 00:26:37,070 S1: through the New Testament as well. If you sever, you 540 00:26:37,070 --> 00:26:39,669 S1: think all covenants are broken, that calls into account, as 541 00:26:39,670 --> 00:26:42,270 S1: you were just saying before the character of God. So 542 00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:44,830 S1: I was thinking, before we start talking about the fact 543 00:26:44,830 --> 00:26:47,710 S1: that people say, well, you know, they're predominantly secular country, 544 00:26:47,710 --> 00:26:50,150 S1: they rejected Jesus. You should just leave him alone. If 545 00:26:50,190 --> 00:26:52,830 S1: you stayed only in the New Testament. And I am 546 00:26:52,830 --> 00:26:56,390 S1: fascinated by the books of first and second Chronicles. You 547 00:26:56,390 --> 00:26:59,430 S1: look at the reign of kings awful bad, terrible, did 548 00:26:59,430 --> 00:27:01,389 S1: awful in the sight of the Lord. Boo! Bad, terrible. Oh, 549 00:27:01,390 --> 00:27:04,550 S1: there's Josiah then. Boo! Bad, terrible. All these kings you. 550 00:27:05,109 --> 00:27:07,429 S1: God could have broken his covenant at any time because 551 00:27:07,430 --> 00:27:09,430 S1: he had people who were passing their own sons through 552 00:27:09,430 --> 00:27:12,950 S1: the fire and he didn't do it. Um, so doesn't 553 00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:15,189 S1: that say something again about the fact that this is 554 00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:17,350 S1: all predicated on the character of God and not on 555 00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:18,910 S1: the behavior of the Jewish people. 556 00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:22,310 S6: Absolutely. In fact, I love it. I just happened to 557 00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:24,390 S6: be doing my devotions in the book of Second Chronicles 558 00:27:24,390 --> 00:27:28,390 S6: right now. Janet. You're right. And I was just going 559 00:27:28,390 --> 00:27:31,630 S6: through those same kings just, uh, this morning. Uh, what 560 00:27:31,630 --> 00:27:34,030 S6: I would end up saying is, uh, you're exactly right, though. 561 00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:38,790 S6: God's covenant is unconditional. Uh, it goes through now any 562 00:27:38,790 --> 00:27:42,230 S6: given generation's ability to participate, to enjoy the benefits of 563 00:27:42,230 --> 00:27:45,710 S6: it might be conditional on their obedience or disobedience. In fact, 564 00:27:45,710 --> 00:27:49,109 S6: God sent him into captivity in Babylon. But when they turned, 565 00:27:49,109 --> 00:27:52,310 S6: he brought him back because the covenant didn't change. Uh, 566 00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:56,670 S6: just the, the individual's likelihood of participating or not changed 567 00:27:56,670 --> 00:27:58,629 S6: based on where they were. Uh, the same thing is 568 00:27:58,630 --> 00:28:02,950 S6: true that covenant is still available. Now God talks in Romans, uh, 569 00:28:02,950 --> 00:28:06,350 S6: as he speaks through Paul. Uh, Israel was temporarily broken 570 00:28:06,390 --> 00:28:09,190 S6: off from that access to that place of blessing, uh, 571 00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:13,990 S6: because of disobedience. But Paul goes quickly goes on and says, 572 00:28:14,109 --> 00:28:16,550 S6: but that's not the end of them because God's gifts 573 00:28:16,550 --> 00:28:19,550 S6: and his calling are irrevocable. And I love it. That's 574 00:28:19,550 --> 00:28:21,629 S6: the one place where he talks about how Israel relates 575 00:28:21,630 --> 00:28:24,190 S6: to the church. And he doesn't say, oh, yeah, we 576 00:28:24,190 --> 00:28:27,470 S6: replaced Israel. He says, no, no, God's covenant is still there. 577 00:28:27,470 --> 00:28:30,470 S6: It's it's not been broken at all. And they're going 578 00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:31,710 S6: to have a future. And that's what he goes on 579 00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:34,750 S6: to describe. And he bases it on the character of God. 580 00:28:34,750 --> 00:28:37,149 S6: And that's where we need to start. As you said, uh, 581 00:28:37,950 --> 00:28:39,950 S6: it's not what we feel. It's not what we think. 582 00:28:39,950 --> 00:28:43,110 S6: It's not what, uh, we might want. It's what God says. 583 00:28:43,150 --> 00:28:46,070 S1: Absolutely. And like you said, Charlie, if he's going to 584 00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:49,190 S1: break his promise there, then he can break his promise anywhere. 585 00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:51,550 S1: And that puts us in a wretched state as fallen humans. 586 00:28:51,550 --> 00:28:53,310 S1: It seems to me it does. 587 00:28:53,310 --> 00:28:57,350 S6: Well, actually, that's what the Muslims would say is that, uh, that, 588 00:28:57,390 --> 00:28:59,390 S6: you know, God broke his promise with Israel because they 589 00:28:59,390 --> 00:29:01,469 S6: didn't obey. And then now he broke his promise with 590 00:29:01,470 --> 00:29:04,630 S6: the church because we didn't accept Muhammad as the prophet. So, uh, 591 00:29:04,670 --> 00:29:07,030 S6: they hold to an ultimate replacement theology. And if we 592 00:29:07,030 --> 00:29:10,950 S6: want to be consistent in holding to a replacement theology, then, uh, 593 00:29:11,150 --> 00:29:13,350 S6: you know, have, have we been replaced? And of course, 594 00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:15,750 S6: the answer is no, and neither has Israel. 595 00:29:16,150 --> 00:29:18,030 S1: Oh, I love the words you're bringing up because there's 596 00:29:18,030 --> 00:29:19,590 S1: a deep dive in every single one of those. Let 597 00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:22,870 S1: me bring up two bad, terrible D words. One is 598 00:29:22,870 --> 00:29:26,710 S1: dispensationalism and the other is Darby. If you spend more 599 00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:29,750 S1: than five seconds on social media, this stuff comes up 600 00:29:29,750 --> 00:29:32,790 S1: all the time. My first week in my New Testament 601 00:29:32,790 --> 00:29:36,350 S1: survey class, we talked about dispensationalism and it you know, 602 00:29:36,390 --> 00:29:39,190 S1: it's systematic theology. It's just a study, isn't it? It's 603 00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:43,830 S1: not like this transcendent, ethereal ecosystem theologically that you have 604 00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:46,070 S1: to subscribe to. It's laying out a timeline. So talk 605 00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:46,950 S1: to me about that. 606 00:29:47,270 --> 00:29:50,390 S6: Yeah, and it's interesting. I went to Dallas Seminary as 607 00:29:50,390 --> 00:29:52,910 S6: a student, and of course, I'd heard, well, you know, 608 00:29:53,230 --> 00:29:57,350 S6: that's the bastion of dispensationalism. And I thought, you know, 609 00:29:57,390 --> 00:29:59,310 S6: I'm going to be kind of programmed as a robot. 610 00:29:59,510 --> 00:30:01,350 S6: And then I found out that I had John Walvoord 611 00:30:01,350 --> 00:30:04,030 S6: and I had Charles Ryrie, and I had J. Dwight Pentecost, 612 00:30:04,270 --> 00:30:07,070 S6: and they all had different opinions on passages in the Bible. 613 00:30:07,390 --> 00:30:11,910 S6: They didn't hold to a single unified uniform. Uh, you know, 614 00:30:11,950 --> 00:30:14,750 S6: lock step view. What they did was said. But you 615 00:30:14,750 --> 00:30:16,630 S6: take the Bible, you take it at face value. You 616 00:30:16,630 --> 00:30:19,590 S6: take it literally intended to be read. And when you do, 617 00:30:19,630 --> 00:30:21,830 S6: you end up with the distinction between Israel and the 618 00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:24,790 S6: church and a future for the nation of Israel. Uh, 619 00:30:24,790 --> 00:30:30,030 S6: and ultimately, dispensationalism was taking the Bible at its literal, normal, 620 00:30:30,230 --> 00:30:34,590 S6: historical way. Uh, and seeing that distinction. And in fact, 621 00:30:34,590 --> 00:30:36,950 S6: I don't take a sacrifice to, uh, to a temple 622 00:30:36,950 --> 00:30:39,350 S6: to worship. Now, Christ did a sacrifice. There is a 623 00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:42,510 S6: change in what God's program was. Uh, it's recognizing those 624 00:30:42,510 --> 00:30:47,710 S6: changes and, and putting the Bible together in a literal fashion. So, uh, 625 00:30:48,110 --> 00:30:50,270 S6: I don't get embarrassed. I love it. They try and 626 00:30:50,270 --> 00:30:53,550 S6: blame it all on Derby as if 1800. Suddenly something 627 00:30:53,550 --> 00:30:56,750 S6: was invented. Exactly. They can actually trace back the understanding 628 00:30:56,750 --> 00:30:59,190 S6: and the future for Israel. Back to the Apostle Paul 629 00:30:59,190 --> 00:31:01,469 S6: in the New Testament. Uh, that's what he's saying in 630 00:31:01,470 --> 00:31:04,790 S6: Romans chapter 11. Uh, and they found early church history. 631 00:31:04,790 --> 00:31:07,270 S6: The difference is in church history, there were different aspects. 632 00:31:07,270 --> 00:31:09,470 S6: The first 300 years they were trying to decide who 633 00:31:09,470 --> 00:31:12,110 S6: Jesus was. And is he God? Is he man? How 634 00:31:12,110 --> 00:31:15,270 S6: does that work out? Uh, by the time of Martin Luther, 635 00:31:15,270 --> 00:31:17,030 S6: they were trying to figure out what is salvation? What 636 00:31:17,030 --> 00:31:19,910 S6: is the nature of salvation? Well, it's not that Luther 637 00:31:19,910 --> 00:31:24,150 S6: invented salvation by grace through faith. Mhm. It's that it's, uh, 638 00:31:24,150 --> 00:31:26,750 S6: that was the problem that was being issued and wrestled with. 639 00:31:26,790 --> 00:31:31,150 S6: And in the late 1800s, 1700s, they were finally starting 640 00:31:31,150 --> 00:31:34,310 S6: to wrestle with the issue of the church in Israel 641 00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:37,470 S6: and the future for Israel. And, uh, Darby did a 642 00:31:37,470 --> 00:31:40,070 S6: wonderful job of trying to take the Bible and take 643 00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:42,550 S6: it at face value. People have built on his shoulders 644 00:31:42,550 --> 00:31:46,030 S6: and have done an even better job of, of explaining it. 645 00:31:46,030 --> 00:31:49,230 S6: And we're still doing that because ultimately we're finite people 646 00:31:49,230 --> 00:31:52,270 S6: trying to put together an infinite book. But when we 647 00:31:52,270 --> 00:31:54,710 S6: take it at face value and admit I might not 648 00:31:54,710 --> 00:31:57,310 S6: understand it, the problem isn't God and it's not his word. 649 00:31:57,310 --> 00:31:58,990 S6: It's me. I just don't know enough yet. 650 00:31:59,430 --> 00:32:03,070 S1: That's exactly right. All right, so again, people spend about 651 00:32:03,070 --> 00:32:05,750 S1: 15 seconds on their social media platform. But if they 652 00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:08,750 S1: see things often enough, they think it's true. So why 653 00:32:08,750 --> 00:32:11,950 S1: has the Scofield Bible become a flashpoint in this conversation 654 00:32:11,950 --> 00:32:12,430 S1: as well. 655 00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:16,030 S6: You know, I can't get that one. Janet. I've got 656 00:32:16,030 --> 00:32:19,310 S6: my Scofield up here. It's, uh. Yeah, it's it's based 657 00:32:19,310 --> 00:32:22,150 S6: on the King James Bible, and I probably don't use 658 00:32:22,150 --> 00:32:24,630 S6: that normally, but it's not a bad translation. Uh, there 659 00:32:24,670 --> 00:32:29,270 S6: are other, uh, study Bibles out, and they are, uh, again, C.I. Scofield. I, 660 00:32:29,310 --> 00:32:32,070 S6: by the way, I was, uh, ordained at Scofield Memorial 661 00:32:32,070 --> 00:32:34,670 S6: Church in Dallas, Texas. So I know a little bit 662 00:32:34,670 --> 00:32:37,190 S6: about Scofield just from going to that church. Uh, he 663 00:32:37,190 --> 00:32:39,910 S6: was a man who, uh, had a checkered past. He 664 00:32:39,910 --> 00:32:42,990 S6: was a drunkard who had a dramatic call to faith 665 00:32:43,190 --> 00:32:45,310 S6: and then began throwing himself into the study of God's 666 00:32:45,310 --> 00:32:47,990 S6: word and just took the Bible at what it said 667 00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:50,670 S6: and I think did a masterful job. I would that 668 00:32:50,670 --> 00:32:53,190 S6: the average person today knew as much about the Bible 669 00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:55,350 S6: as he did, and spent as much time studying it 670 00:32:55,350 --> 00:32:58,110 S6: as he did. Uh, did he get everything right? No, 671 00:32:58,110 --> 00:33:00,030 S6: not not for sure. Did he say some things that 672 00:33:00,030 --> 00:33:03,510 S6: we'd probably say differently? Yeah. Uh, but by and large, 673 00:33:03,830 --> 00:33:06,190 S6: he did a good job of trying to, to, uh, 674 00:33:06,310 --> 00:33:09,230 S6: explain what the Bible said for an audience and providing 675 00:33:09,310 --> 00:33:13,270 S6: cross-reference notes that could help people. And, uh, rather than 676 00:33:13,310 --> 00:33:14,950 S6: complaining about him, I think we ought to try and 677 00:33:14,950 --> 00:33:16,510 S6: emulate that in our own lives. 678 00:33:16,990 --> 00:33:19,190 S1: So. Well said. You used a phrase. I'd love for 679 00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:20,790 S1: you to break it down. What do you mean when 680 00:33:20,790 --> 00:33:23,670 S1: you talk about replacement theology? Another couple of words that 681 00:33:23,670 --> 00:33:25,150 S1: float up through this conversation. 682 00:33:25,590 --> 00:33:28,590 S6: Yeah, that that is the simplest form is that the 683 00:33:28,590 --> 00:33:31,950 S6: church replaced Israel. That is, God made a promise to Israel, 684 00:33:32,150 --> 00:33:36,830 S6: and Israel violated it. They they rejected the Messiah and 685 00:33:36,830 --> 00:33:39,990 S6: the promises that God gave to Israel. He's now changed. 686 00:33:40,030 --> 00:33:43,270 S6: They're not literally to be understood. We're not inheritors of 687 00:33:43,270 --> 00:33:46,270 S6: the land, but we're inheritors of heaven. And so the 688 00:33:46,270 --> 00:33:49,750 S6: promises have been spiritualized and applied to the church. The 689 00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:52,110 S6: problem with that is that if you take what God 690 00:33:52,110 --> 00:33:55,630 S6: promised at face value, uh, they're not applied to us. 691 00:33:55,670 --> 00:33:58,270 S6: I mean, I don't have a place in, uh, neither 692 00:33:58,270 --> 00:34:01,270 S6: in the physical land of Israel nor, uh, in a 693 00:34:01,310 --> 00:34:04,550 S6: spiritual way. Uh, there are so many places where they've 694 00:34:04,590 --> 00:34:09,219 S6: taken away what God said and tried to spiritualize it. Uh, and, uh, 695 00:34:09,460 --> 00:34:11,660 S6: you get into real problems in the book of Ezekiel 696 00:34:11,660 --> 00:34:13,339 S6: when you try and come up with what the, the 697 00:34:13,340 --> 00:34:17,339 S6: new temple that's going to be built is, uh, and, uh, 698 00:34:17,500 --> 00:34:20,100 S6: I had to write the commentary for that, for the 699 00:34:20,100 --> 00:34:23,420 S6: Bible knowledge commentary and, and, uh, trust me, if you 700 00:34:23,420 --> 00:34:25,540 S6: don't take that at face value, you have no clue 701 00:34:25,580 --> 00:34:27,180 S6: what you're, what you're looking at there. 702 00:34:27,500 --> 00:34:31,259 S1: That's so true. So well said. Wow. Well, and again, 703 00:34:31,300 --> 00:34:33,500 S1: if we're throwing names around who came up with this 704 00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:37,500 S1: idea of replacement theology, it's a, it's it's a thought system. 705 00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:39,420 S1: So who are the key players in this idea that 706 00:34:39,420 --> 00:34:42,100 S1: somewhere between Malachi and Matthew, God changes his mind? 707 00:34:42,700 --> 00:34:44,779 S6: Well, I think it goes all the way back to, uh, 708 00:34:45,060 --> 00:34:48,299 S6: about the third century, uh, origin and, uh, and some 709 00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:51,020 S6: others when they finally went away from taking the Bible 710 00:34:51,020 --> 00:34:55,420 S6: literally and started looking for a spiritual, deeper, hidden meaning. Well, 711 00:34:55,420 --> 00:34:58,540 S6: at that point, the, uh, the person who determines what 712 00:34:58,540 --> 00:35:02,540 S6: it's saying is you not not God's word. And, uh, the, uh, 713 00:35:02,860 --> 00:35:08,700 S6: that spiritualized interpretation is ultimately what was behind, uh, spiritualizing 714 00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:10,180 S6: Israel and making it the church. 715 00:35:10,940 --> 00:35:14,860 S1: MM. So again, those are all those are flash points. 716 00:35:14,860 --> 00:35:16,779 S1: Those are words that people hear all the time that 717 00:35:16,780 --> 00:35:19,580 S1: come up when we come back. And again, I love 718 00:35:19,580 --> 00:35:21,620 S1: the way that you just and you flew over this, 719 00:35:21,620 --> 00:35:23,420 S1: this was a crash course. So you'll get more if 720 00:35:23,460 --> 00:35:25,259 S1: you read who Owns the land. And by the way, 721 00:35:25,260 --> 00:35:27,060 S1: a lot of other books that Doctor Dyer has written 722 00:35:27,060 --> 00:35:30,620 S1: on this topic as well. But you're there spending 15 723 00:35:30,620 --> 00:35:33,420 S1: seconds on a social media platform, and you've got a 724 00:35:33,420 --> 00:35:36,259 S1: three minute soundbite on TikTok. And that's not how you 725 00:35:36,260 --> 00:35:39,900 S1: learn your theology, okay? Don't let the world teach you theology. 726 00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:41,739 S1: You get grounded in the word and find out the 727 00:35:41,739 --> 00:35:45,100 S1: characteristics of God, the promises that he's made, the covenants 728 00:35:45,100 --> 00:35:47,500 S1: that he's made and the nature of God. And then 729 00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:50,220 S1: understand also that the stuff that's on the headlines today, 730 00:35:50,420 --> 00:35:53,779 S1: the root of all of this is an ancient, ancient warfare. 731 00:35:53,820 --> 00:35:55,859 S1: I you can't see it with your eyes, but I'm 732 00:35:55,860 --> 00:35:58,420 S1: here to tell you it is fierce and it is intense. 733 00:35:58,420 --> 00:36:01,300 S1: And it's the enemy hating the fact that a Jewish 734 00:36:01,300 --> 00:36:04,299 S1: Messiah became the unblemished Lamb of God that took away 735 00:36:04,300 --> 00:36:06,620 S1: the sins of the world, and he's been hopping mad 736 00:36:06,620 --> 00:36:09,740 S1: ever since. Note to file his days are numbered. Read 737 00:36:09,739 --> 00:36:11,660 S1: the book doesn't turn out so well for him. More 738 00:36:11,660 --> 00:36:27,860 S1: with Doctor Dyer right after this. Who owns the land? 739 00:36:27,860 --> 00:36:29,820 S1: It's one of the many books that Doctor Charles Dyer 740 00:36:29,860 --> 00:36:32,060 S1: has authored. It is an in depth look at the 741 00:36:32,060 --> 00:36:34,299 S1: truth behind the Middle East conflict. Wrote it a few 742 00:36:34,300 --> 00:36:36,500 S1: years ago. It has now been updated and revised because 743 00:36:36,540 --> 00:36:38,620 S1: guess what? Israel is in the news all the time. 744 00:36:38,900 --> 00:36:42,340 S1: Which takes me in a conversation that's gone far too fast, Charlie. 745 00:36:42,340 --> 00:36:44,180 S1: And they do every time you and I get together. 746 00:36:44,580 --> 00:36:47,260 S1: How do we, as followers of Christ, how do we 747 00:36:47,260 --> 00:36:50,220 S1: in the marketplace of ideas, engage on this particular topic? 748 00:36:50,260 --> 00:36:53,380 S1: The problem that I'm hearing, and it bothers me so much, 749 00:36:53,380 --> 00:36:55,339 S1: and I say this over and over again because I 750 00:36:55,380 --> 00:36:57,860 S1: happen to believe it's true. The world is right on schedule. 751 00:36:57,860 --> 00:37:00,620 S1: The world is doing exactly what the world does without Jesus. 752 00:37:00,620 --> 00:37:03,660 S1: So it's not the world's response that bothers me. It's 753 00:37:03,660 --> 00:37:07,460 S1: people who call themselves, quote, Christian, who are now coming 754 00:37:07,460 --> 00:37:14,020 S1: up with these horrific anti-Semitic statements, actions, beliefs, participating in 755 00:37:14,219 --> 00:37:18,220 S1: awful protests that are just blind leading the blind. That 756 00:37:18,219 --> 00:37:21,060 S1: bothers me. People who should know better because they'd have 757 00:37:21,060 --> 00:37:23,460 S1: one word plant, one foot planted in the word and 758 00:37:23,460 --> 00:37:26,180 S1: the other they're walking through the world. But that's the 759 00:37:26,219 --> 00:37:28,500 S1: chaos that bothers me. I don't know what that's predicated on. 760 00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:31,700 S1: Is it just bad Bible, bad teaching, bad information from 761 00:37:31,700 --> 00:37:35,300 S1: the pulpit? Is it give me something that tickles my ears. 762 00:37:35,580 --> 00:37:38,299 S1: Your thoughts on that? Where's the genesis on the in 763 00:37:38,340 --> 00:37:40,100 S1: the church on this bad teaching? 764 00:37:40,500 --> 00:37:42,300 S6: Well, you know, you said they have one foot planted 765 00:37:42,300 --> 00:37:43,980 S6: in the word. I think they actually have one small 766 00:37:43,980 --> 00:37:48,060 S6: toe planted in the word, sadly. Uh, the I had 767 00:37:48,060 --> 00:37:49,380 S6: a friend who said, if you want to know the 768 00:37:49,380 --> 00:37:51,339 S6: Word of God, the best way to know it is 769 00:37:51,340 --> 00:37:54,300 S6: to read it. But the average person is not reading 770 00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:56,100 S6: the Word of God. They don't know what it says. 771 00:37:56,380 --> 00:38:01,100 S6: And as a result, they they succumb to, to slick arguments, to, uh, 772 00:38:01,100 --> 00:38:03,940 S6: Of anything that's presented in a in a fancy way. 773 00:38:03,980 --> 00:38:06,060 S6: Sounds good to them, but they don't have the ability 774 00:38:06,060 --> 00:38:10,859 S6: to evaluate it. Uh, now, lest we get down on 775 00:38:10,860 --> 00:38:14,340 S6: our generation today, I love it. In second Thessalonians, Paul 776 00:38:14,340 --> 00:38:16,860 S6: wrote to the church there, and he. And evidently they 777 00:38:16,900 --> 00:38:19,299 S6: had gotten a letter or a prophecy or something from that. 778 00:38:19,300 --> 00:38:21,219 S6: They said, this must be from Paul. We're in the 779 00:38:21,219 --> 00:38:24,580 S6: day of the Lord. And Paul writes and says to them, 780 00:38:24,620 --> 00:38:27,260 S6: you know, you might have gotten that. Don't let anyone 781 00:38:27,260 --> 00:38:28,899 S6: deceive you in any way. And then he goes through 782 00:38:28,900 --> 00:38:30,219 S6: and he says, here's what I taught you when I 783 00:38:30,219 --> 00:38:35,420 S6: was there. The best solution to being driven, tossed and 784 00:38:35,420 --> 00:38:38,260 S6: turned in any direction is to know the Word of God. 785 00:38:38,460 --> 00:38:40,060 S6: And the way to do that is to read. My 786 00:38:40,060 --> 00:38:42,300 S6: recommendation to people is if if you have a Bible, 787 00:38:42,300 --> 00:38:45,100 S6: you're not. It's an older translation, get a newer translation. 788 00:38:45,100 --> 00:38:47,379 S6: But read the Word of God and don't just stick 789 00:38:47,380 --> 00:38:49,380 S6: in a few areas and look for your favorite verse. 790 00:38:49,660 --> 00:38:51,219 S6: Go through it. The more you know the Word of God, 791 00:38:51,219 --> 00:38:53,100 S6: the more you're going to be able to evaluate what's 792 00:38:53,140 --> 00:38:56,780 S6: what's going on. I have an illustration. When I was 793 00:38:56,820 --> 00:38:59,460 S6: a seminary student, I worked part time at a bank 794 00:38:59,500 --> 00:39:02,940 S6: as a teller, I gave away about $1,000 in two years. 795 00:39:03,340 --> 00:39:06,220 S6: The customers loved me. Not one ever came back to 796 00:39:06,420 --> 00:39:08,660 S6: tell me I gave them too much, but they had 797 00:39:08,660 --> 00:39:10,980 S6: somebody come from the government to explain how to use 798 00:39:11,020 --> 00:39:13,460 S6: how to spot counterfeit money, and I thought this was 799 00:39:13,460 --> 00:39:15,980 S6: going to be great. I'll get to see all these counterfeits. 800 00:39:16,020 --> 00:39:17,940 S6: They didn't show us a single counterfeit. They spent all 801 00:39:17,940 --> 00:39:20,540 S6: their time showing what the real thing looks like. And 802 00:39:20,540 --> 00:39:22,259 S6: they said, if you follow this, this is the thing 803 00:39:22,300 --> 00:39:24,940 S6: that the no matter what counterfeit it happens to be, 804 00:39:24,940 --> 00:39:29,020 S6: they have trouble getting this right. And the reality is 805 00:39:29,260 --> 00:39:31,660 S6: there's all sorts of false ideas going around and they're 806 00:39:31,660 --> 00:39:33,620 S6: always going to be new ones. But to the extent 807 00:39:33,620 --> 00:39:36,140 S6: that you know the Word of God, you'll just say, 808 00:39:36,140 --> 00:39:38,940 S6: that doesn't sound right. You may not remember the exact verse, 809 00:39:39,219 --> 00:39:40,859 S6: but it'll take you back to the Word of God, 810 00:39:40,860 --> 00:39:45,180 S6: and that'll keep you from going off any, any way, 811 00:39:45,219 --> 00:39:48,500 S6: any matter of a number of different wrong directions. 812 00:39:49,540 --> 00:39:52,060 S1: Preach it. I couldn't agree with you more. Okay, so 813 00:39:52,060 --> 00:39:54,540 S1: that takes us to so get in the word. That's 814 00:39:54,540 --> 00:39:56,980 S1: point number one. If you don't, you're you're just lost. 815 00:39:56,980 --> 00:39:59,700 S1: You need that plumb line we talked about before. Otherwise, 816 00:39:59,700 --> 00:40:01,779 S1: nothing in the world, particularly this issue. But nothing in 817 00:40:01,780 --> 00:40:03,339 S1: the world will make sense if you don't look at 818 00:40:03,340 --> 00:40:05,819 S1: the world through the lens of Scripture. Here's the second thing. 819 00:40:05,820 --> 00:40:09,060 S1: And to me, it's infuriating because it's insinuating that Christians 820 00:40:09,060 --> 00:40:11,460 S1: cannot walk and chew gum at the same time. So we, 821 00:40:11,500 --> 00:40:13,900 S1: we try to play this game of how many angels 822 00:40:13,900 --> 00:40:15,979 S1: dance on the head of a pin by saying, oh, 823 00:40:16,140 --> 00:40:18,259 S1: I don't have anything against the Jewish people. I just 824 00:40:18,260 --> 00:40:22,100 S1: have hatred toward the state of Israel. Um, okay, explain 825 00:40:22,100 --> 00:40:22,660 S1: that to me. 826 00:40:23,380 --> 00:40:27,220 S6: Yeah, that's, uh, you can't do one without the other. 827 00:40:27,260 --> 00:40:28,060 S1: Exactly. 828 00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:32,419 S6: Because the Jewish. It's a Jewish state. And, uh, those 829 00:40:32,420 --> 00:40:35,060 S6: who are doing that are trying to use semantics to 830 00:40:35,100 --> 00:40:39,219 S6: justify their antisemitism. But in reality, at the bottom line, 831 00:40:39,219 --> 00:40:43,620 S6: they don't they don't like the Jewish people. And, uh, if, uh, 832 00:40:43,660 --> 00:40:45,500 S6: if they call the state something else, that if we're 833 00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:49,899 S6: Jewish people, they wouldn't like it. So, um, God is 834 00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:51,660 S6: the one who gave them that land. In fact, the, 835 00:40:51,660 --> 00:40:54,259 S6: the title deed to the land is found in, uh, 836 00:40:55,620 --> 00:40:57,860 S6: book of numbers and the book of Ezekiel, numbers 34 837 00:40:57,900 --> 00:41:01,020 S6: and Ezekiel 47. And God said, this is the land 838 00:41:01,020 --> 00:41:04,140 S6: I'm giving you. I gave the borders for it. Uh, 839 00:41:04,180 --> 00:41:06,379 S6: we might not like that, but take it up with God. 840 00:41:06,380 --> 00:41:09,540 S6: It's not not Israel's fault. It's God's. And again, we're 841 00:41:09,540 --> 00:41:11,620 S6: back to the character of God. He made the promise. 842 00:41:12,060 --> 00:41:14,020 S1: Well, one of the things I love and I love 843 00:41:14,020 --> 00:41:15,420 S1: the entire book, but one of the things I love 844 00:41:15,420 --> 00:41:17,620 S1: about who owns the land is that you give us 845 00:41:17,620 --> 00:41:19,739 S1: lots of maps so that we can do information. And 846 00:41:19,739 --> 00:41:21,700 S1: one of the maps I love goes back to the 847 00:41:21,700 --> 00:41:23,900 S1: Balfour Declaration. And when you think about the deed to 848 00:41:23,940 --> 00:41:26,540 S1: the land, if you read it, whether it's in Genesis 849 00:41:26,540 --> 00:41:29,780 S1: or numbers or wherever you're reading it, God gave the 850 00:41:29,900 --> 00:41:32,819 S1: the Jewish people a boatload more land than when they're 851 00:41:32,820 --> 00:41:35,859 S1: sitting on today. From my vantage point, they've been very gracious. 852 00:41:35,860 --> 00:41:38,380 S1: Sometimes it was taken from them, sometimes they ceded it. 853 00:41:38,380 --> 00:41:41,500 S1: But the bottom line is this little state about the 854 00:41:41,500 --> 00:41:44,700 S1: size of new Jersey, sitting around all these giants around them. 855 00:41:45,140 --> 00:41:48,300 S1: The deed takes the land much farther than the boundaries 856 00:41:48,300 --> 00:41:49,820 S1: we see in current Israel, does it not? 857 00:41:50,420 --> 00:41:53,859 S6: Oh, absolutely. And someday Israel will possess all of that 858 00:41:53,860 --> 00:41:56,419 S6: land because that's part of God's promise. But you're right 859 00:41:56,420 --> 00:41:59,459 S6: in the interim. They're living on less than the land 860 00:41:59,460 --> 00:42:02,180 S6: than what God promised them. Also, and I pointed out 861 00:42:02,180 --> 00:42:03,900 S6: in the book, you know, we think of all the 862 00:42:03,900 --> 00:42:06,419 S6: other Arab countries, most of the Arab countries we know 863 00:42:06,420 --> 00:42:10,460 S6: today are modern inventions. There wasn't a country of Jordan 864 00:42:10,460 --> 00:42:13,500 S6: or a country of Syria. They were invented by the 865 00:42:13,500 --> 00:42:16,780 S6: European powers as well. So the only one that truly 866 00:42:16,780 --> 00:42:18,819 S6: can say, well, I can point to my promise in 867 00:42:18,820 --> 00:42:22,540 S6: the Word of God is Israel. Uh, and, uh, and yet, uh, 868 00:42:22,540 --> 00:42:26,020 S6: nobody doubts that Syria shouldn't be around or, uh, Jordan 869 00:42:26,020 --> 00:42:28,779 S6: shouldn't be around, or Saudi Arabia shouldn't be around. Uh, 870 00:42:28,780 --> 00:42:31,060 S6: but they were. There's a reason there was a straight 871 00:42:31,060 --> 00:42:33,540 S6: lines on a map. It's because that's how the British 872 00:42:33,540 --> 00:42:34,620 S6: and the French drew them. 873 00:42:34,860 --> 00:42:37,779 S1: That's exactly right. So not only that, but then when 874 00:42:37,780 --> 00:42:41,739 S1: you look at the archaeological substantiation, I'm fascinated by archaeology. 875 00:42:41,739 --> 00:42:44,740 S1: And when you see over and over again the Jewish 876 00:42:44,739 --> 00:42:49,459 S1: presence in the Jewish state that goes back thousands, 3000 877 00:42:49,500 --> 00:42:52,299 S1: plus years. It's pretty hard to argue that they were 878 00:42:52,300 --> 00:42:54,859 S1: occupiers when you've got this trail of evidence that they 879 00:42:54,860 --> 00:42:55,739 S1: were there before. 880 00:42:56,300 --> 00:42:59,100 S6: Yeah, they were there before the Muslim conquest in in 881 00:42:59,140 --> 00:43:02,580 S6: the six, seven hundreds. So it goes back one of 882 00:43:02,580 --> 00:43:07,700 S6: the greatest archaeological areas today is the original city of David. Uh, 883 00:43:07,739 --> 00:43:11,259 S6: that I just, I just am amazed every time I'm there, 884 00:43:11,260 --> 00:43:13,620 S6: there's something new that they found, including this pilgrim roadway 885 00:43:13,660 --> 00:43:16,339 S6: 2000 years ago where the Jews walked on it on 886 00:43:16,340 --> 00:43:19,660 S6: the street. Uh, uh, they have the evidence to show 887 00:43:19,660 --> 00:43:21,500 S6: that they were there, that this was there, right? That 888 00:43:21,500 --> 00:43:24,299 S6: this is the place they lived, and yet the world 889 00:43:24,300 --> 00:43:25,500 S6: refuses to believe it. 890 00:43:25,660 --> 00:43:29,420 S1: Yeah. Amen. So if the clarion cry post the Holocaust 891 00:43:29,420 --> 00:43:31,819 S1: is never again, this goes back to the question I 892 00:43:31,820 --> 00:43:34,980 S1: wanted to ask earlier, which is as followers of Christ Jesus, 893 00:43:34,980 --> 00:43:36,660 S1: going through life with the Bible in one hand and 894 00:43:36,660 --> 00:43:39,299 S1: the newspaper in the other, how do we respond when 895 00:43:39,300 --> 00:43:42,060 S1: we hear these cries of anti-Semitism, when people are making 896 00:43:42,060 --> 00:43:45,580 S1: these really untenable statements that I don't have anything against 897 00:43:45,580 --> 00:43:47,340 S1: the Jewish people, I just don't believe in the Jewish 898 00:43:47,340 --> 00:43:50,060 S1: state or Israel is the occupier, or they've committed genocide. 899 00:43:50,060 --> 00:43:51,660 S1: The list goes on and on and on. How do 900 00:43:51,660 --> 00:43:52,380 S1: we respond? 901 00:43:53,020 --> 00:43:55,140 S6: I think we have to respond by saying, what does 902 00:43:55,140 --> 00:43:57,460 S6: God say? Thus saith the Lord. And go back to 903 00:43:57,500 --> 00:43:59,460 S6: what God's Word has to offer and then say, and 904 00:43:59,460 --> 00:44:01,859 S6: I'm standing with that, which means I'm standing with the 905 00:44:01,860 --> 00:44:04,140 S6: the nation of Israel and with the Jewish people right now. 906 00:44:04,620 --> 00:44:07,580 S1: Yeah. And let the chips fall where they may. Right. Yeah. Wow. 907 00:44:07,940 --> 00:44:09,739 S1: Let me get people to get to your book again. 908 00:44:09,739 --> 00:44:11,739 S1: It's called Who Owns the Land. I've got it right 909 00:44:11,739 --> 00:44:13,460 S1: there on my website. Just go to In the Market 910 00:44:13,460 --> 00:44:16,660 S1: with Janet Parshall under the summation of the two hours 911 00:44:16,660 --> 00:44:18,419 S1: we do every day, there's a red box. It says 912 00:44:18,420 --> 00:44:21,299 S1: program details and audio. Click that on. It'll take you 913 00:44:21,300 --> 00:44:24,540 S1: over the information page. There's a wonderful picture of Doctor Dyer, 914 00:44:24,580 --> 00:44:27,899 S1: a longer bio, um, a link to his book, Who 915 00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:30,339 S1: Owns the land, so you can click on through and 916 00:44:30,340 --> 00:44:33,700 S1: read it because it really is so helpful in breaking 917 00:44:33,700 --> 00:44:36,340 S1: down the history so that you understand the false claims 918 00:44:36,340 --> 00:44:38,580 S1: that are being made, claims, by the way, that are 919 00:44:38,580 --> 00:44:42,700 S1: rooted in anti-Semitism, not in historical objective truth. And it'll 920 00:44:42,700 --> 00:44:45,660 S1: help you better contend for the faith. Thank you, Doctor Dyer. 921 00:44:45,700 --> 00:44:48,700 S1: Always fabulous conversations and thank you, friends. We'll see you 922 00:44:48,700 --> 00:44:50,900 S1: next time on In the Market with Janet Parshall.