UU: It's time to.
S1: Clear the decks, to empty the inbox, to clear the spindle.
S1: There are so many questions that have come in, and
S1: what better time than today to seize the opportunity to
S1: answer those questions? Hello friends. Welcome to Open Line with
S1: Doctor Michael Ray Dolnick. This is Moody Radio's Bible study
S1: across America. My name is Michael Ray Dolnick. I'm the
S1: dean of Moody Bible Institute's undergraduate school, also professor of
S1: Jewish studies and Bible right here at Moody. And we're
S1: coming to you from the campus of Moody Bible Institute
S1: in a special pre-recorded edition of Open Line. Thank you
S1: for joining me this Saturday. You know, you can learn
S1: more about Open Line. You can hear past programs, you
S1: can connect to our social media pages, even fill out
S1: your Bible question for me to answer at our website openline. radio.org.
S1: That's open line Radio talk in this hour of Open Line.
S1: We'll take the questions you've sent in. Our phone lines
S1: are not open today, so please don't call because it's
S1: an all mailbag, all the time program for Open Line.
S1: Joining me today will be my very special guest, who
S1: really is the one that usually sends me the answers
S1: via text. But she's going to be here joining in
S1: telling me what those answers are. Eva Riedel, who's also
S1: a colleague at Moody Bible Institute and also a co-contributor
S1: to the Moody Bible Commentary. But most of all, she's
S1: my partner for all these years, my wife. And so
S1: I'm glad you're here. She's I'm used to hearing Eva
S1: answer Bible questions. She answers my Bible questions all the time.
S1: So you get you get to hear them too. Awesome
S1: to be here. Yeah. Also with me today is Tricia McMillan.
S1: Tricia is the producer of Open Line, and she's the
S1: one that puts the mail back together. And so, Tricia,
S1: thank you for putting all this together.
S2: Glad to be.
S1: Here. Yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun.
S1: There's no one answering the calls.
S2: Today, right?
S1: Nope. Because please don't call today. Today is just all
S1: mailbag all the time. But you can write to us.
S1: The best way you can write to us is just
S1: go to Open Line radio.org. That's our website. And when
S1: you get to Open Line radio.org, what you can do
S1: is you'll scroll down, you'll see a link that says
S1: Ask Michael a question. And so you click on that,
S1: fill out the form and your question will come right in.
S1: And we will put that into a mailbag for the future.
S1: So if you have a question that is prompted by
S1: today's program, that's the way to get it to us.
S1: And Tricia, you have a lot of questions here.
S2: I do, I don't well, I do, but those are
S2: not the ones I brought today. The ones I brought
S2: today are the questions that everyone else has sent in
S2: for me. Yeah.
S1: And they resonate with you. So they do.
S2: Yeah. And there's a lot of good questions too.
S1: So anyway, I'm really glad that we're going to do
S1: this and we're going to just jump right in and
S1: go right to the questions.
S2: All right. Our first question is from Beverly in Oxford
S2: Alabama listens to WGR. W when the captives return from Babylon,
S2: did they include the tribes of Judah and Benjamin only,
S2: or were there other tribes present?
S3: You know, that's this is sort of the background idea
S3: that there were lost tribes, that there were the ten
S3: lost tribes, but actually none of the tribes were lost,
S3: and that when the captives came back from Babylon, I
S3: think it included people from all of the all of
S3: the 12 tribes. And what happened was earlier on, during
S3: even during the Assyrian captivity, tribes from the north went
S3: down to the south. And this was like 707. 21
S3: was when the northern Kingdom fell. They went down to
S3: the south for safety. And then when the Babylonian captivity
S3: happened in 586, there were people from every tribe that
S3: were taken into captivity by the Babylonians. And after the
S3: captivity ended, 70 years later, the people came back to
S3: the land of Israel, and they came back being from
S3: every tribe. And one of the examples that we know of,
S3: from people being, from every tribe is that in the
S3: birth narrative of the Messiah, Jesus, when he was taken
S3: to the temple as a little baby, and Luke chapter two,
S3: it talks about the prophetess Anna. She was from the
S3: tribe of Asher. So that's just one example of where
S3: we have people from a northern tribe that is mentioned
S3: in the New Testament era. So people came back from
S3: every tribe. There were no lost tribes.
S1: That's from Luke 236.
S3: Luke 236.
S1: People are wondering about that. So also it's possible some
S1: of the northern tribes obviously intermarried with the Syrians, and
S1: that's how they became Samaritans. And then some of the
S1: northern tribes actually were taken captive to Assyria. And then
S1: when Judah was brought to Babylon. Babylon had taken over
S1: Assyria at that point. And so the community was just
S1: merged and became one. The Jews who had gone into
S1: exile in 721, and their descendants now were merged with
S1: the Jews, who were brought into exile in Judah from
S1: Judah to Babylon. So they all got merged. And so no,
S1: there were not ten lost tribes. So when people want
S1: to say, oh, the, the people of of Great Britain
S1: are the true lost ten tribes.
S3: Native Americans or.
S1: Native Americans are the lost ten tribes. None of that's true.
S1: The lost Ten tribes were never lost. They came back
S1: to the land. Now, what was lost is that after
S1: the destruction of the temple, most of the the tribal
S1: records were lost with the destruction of the temple. And
S1: Jewish people, except for trying to remember who was from
S1: a priestly family and who was from a was a Levite.
S1: Otherwise all the other records of.
S3: And that was in the 70 A.D., the Roman destruction
S3: of the temple in 70. That's when those records were lost.
S1: And so ever since then, people don't really track their tribes.
S2: Okay, thanks for that question, Beverly. That was a very
S2: quick history lesson on the captivity. Um, Tara wrote us
S2: from Bradenton, Florida, listened to us with her 12 year
S2: old's question. He would like to know who the last
S2: prophet was in the Bible.
S1: Well, it depends on how you're looking at it. The
S1: last prophet of the Old Testament, obviously, is the book
S1: of Malachi. You've got three post-exile prophets, okay? You've got
S1: the prophets, and then you've got the exile, and then
S1: you've got Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi. And really, we know
S1: for sure by the dates of Haggai and Zechariah, that
S1: they were indeed post-exilic prophets. We just presume Malachi was
S1: because he's right there connected with them, and he's the
S1: last book of the Bible. But there's no date on
S1: the book of Malachi to tell us that he was
S1: a post-exilic prophet. It's just we presume it because he's
S1: there along with Haggai and Zechariah, and then boom.
S3: Yep. Long tradition of long.
S1: Tradition of him being the third of the Post-exilic prophets.
S1: But it doesn't say it in Malachi.
S2: Are all of the prophetic books in the Old Testament
S2: in order in how they were prophets?
S1: Not necessarily so. But, you know, you look at Isaiah
S1: and then Jeremiah came after him. Ezekiel was compatible with Jeremiah. But, uh,
S1: at the same time, uh, but then you've got Daniel
S1: in another section. He's not really in the prophetic section
S1: in the Hebrew canon. He's in the writings. And then
S1: you've got the the 12 Minor Prophets. But what it
S1: does appear is that of the 12, it ends with
S1: the Post-exilic prophets. And sort of the context of where
S1: Malachi is put would lead us to believe that, yes, indeed,
S1: he's a post-exilic prophet. But that's not the last necessary
S1: prophet in the Bible.
S3: And then we knew there the post-exilic because of what
S3: they're talking about. They're talking about stuff after the exile.
S1: Well, there's dates also in Haggai and Zechariah. And also
S1: when you get to the New Testament. There are prophets.
S1: I mean, I've just mentioned the prophetess Anna in Luke two. Right? Mhm. Uh,
S1: but of course we have the greatest prophet and that's
S1: John the Baptist according to Matthew 11. Uh, he's the
S1: greatest of the holes, and he's kind of classed with
S1: the Old Testament prophets, though he's in the New Testament.
S1: And then there are prophets with the New Testament gift
S1: of prophecy that we see in the book of acts
S1: like Agabus. And he was a prophet, but he gave
S1: a prediction about Paul going to be bound from Jerusalem
S1: and taken, you know, captive and so forth. And so
S1: there are other prophets, and it does look like that
S1: there's going to be a prophetic witness in the book
S1: of revelation, or sort of a restoration of the office
S1: of prophet in, in the future, when there's the two
S1: witnesses in revelation 11. So we still have not yet
S1: seen the last prophet, because the two witnesses are coming.
S1: And so yeah, it's like one of those questions that
S1: people say, well, who's the last prophet? Well, it depends
S1: on what you're asking.
S2: So okay. Yeah. All right. Thanks for that information. Yeah. Exactly.
S3: Like who discovered America. It depends on where you're looking. Yeah.
S2: Thanks for that question, Tara. From your son Aaron wrote
S2: us from Spokane, Washington. Listens to KMBC. I'm reading Matthew 1818.
S2: Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.
S2: Whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
S2: And wondering what the terms binding and loosing refer to.
S2: My application Bible indicates this refers to conflict with within
S2: the church, which makes sense given the context of the
S2: prior verses. Context is important though. Specifically what is being
S2: bound and loosed and how should this be applied?
S3: Isn't that binding and loosing? That's kind of a rabbinic term, Michael.
S1: It is a rabbinic term. To bind means to forbid
S1: and to loose means to permit, and it really is
S1: a reference there To a term that was used in
S1: Judaism at that time for making decisions.
S3: And it makes sense it would be used in Matthew,
S3: since it's primarily a gospel focused toward the Jewish people
S3: who would be familiar with some of these terms.
S1: Yeah. And of course, Jesus was in the event he
S1: was saying it, and he used that term because he
S1: was talking with Jewish people who completely understood what he
S1: was saying. And so the context is really, uh, church discipline.
S1: That's that's what it's talking about there in Matthew 18. Uh,
S1: it says, uh, that's where you gather if you have
S1: if your brother sins against you, you go and and
S1: address it in private. And then if he doesn't listen,
S1: if you've listened, you've won your brother. If not, bring
S1: 2 or 3 witnesses by the mouth of 2 or
S1: 3 witnesses, every word will be tested. And so if
S1: that doesn't listen to that, then it says, bring it
S1: to the church. Here's Jesus anticipating the establishment of the church.
S1: It was not yet established, but he's giving them direction
S1: for when the church is established. And then he says,
S1: whatever you bind in terms of the leadership of your church,
S1: whatever you bind or loose on earth is bound in heaven.
S1: In other words, whatever decision you make as a church,
S1: that's the decision of heaven. It is giving authority to
S1: the church leadership to make these kinds of decisions. So
S1: binding and loosing means technically it means to forbid or
S1: to permit, but it came to be when you use
S1: them together a term for meaning make decisions. Uh, and
S1: the decision then would be whatever decision you make on
S1: earth that's confirmed in heaven. And of course, what I
S1: think is most interesting. Look at verse 20. Uh, Eva. Yeah.
S1: How do people use that verse?
S3: So this is so often used about for for a
S3: prayer meeting. Verse 20, for where 2 or 3 are
S3: gathered together in my name, I am there in their midst.
S3: And so, you know, if you've got 2 or 3
S3: people together, Jesus is with us in a very special way.
S1: Yeah, but that's not what it's talking about.
S3: What it's talking about.
S1: It's talking about church discipline.
S3: And in fact, I think when we get together to pray,
S3: when we ask Jesus to be with us, it's like
S3: not understanding that like he is always with us. The
S3: Holy Spirit is always with us is present. He's always present. Yeah.
S1: So but yeah, that's one of the things. Lord be
S1: with us now. He hasn't left. He said, I'll never
S1: leave you or forsake you. Right. Yeah. So how does.
S2: How does that apply to church discipline?
S1: Yeah. The 2 or 3. It's like when the leadership
S1: makes this decision, if it's brought to the whole body,
S1: and then the leadership could be two or 3 or
S1: 6 or whatever the elders are. And the church body
S1: makes a decision that the Lord Jesus is in the
S1: midst of that decision. Okay. It, uh, church discipline isn't
S1: a real popular topic, right? But it's one that is
S1: needs to be exercised by the church, and it doesn't
S1: have to be harsh or unloving. It should be loving
S1: and redemptive, but Jesus is in the midst of it.
S1: So anyway, I think that's kind of a interesting verse
S1: that's frequently misused. Hey, you're listening to a very special
S1: all mailbag, all the time edition of Open Line. I'm
S1: Mike Radonich. Everett Dolnick is here. Tricia McMillan. We're going
S1: to be back with more of your questions in a moment.
S1: Do you want to read the Bible but don't know
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S1: Welcome back to this all mailbag, all the time edition
S1: of Open Line. I'm Michael Ray Dolnick and with me
S1: today is Eva Ray Dolnick, my colleague at Moody Bible
S1: Institute and my wife for more years than we we
S1: were going to admit. Right. That's it. We've been married
S1: a long time. And Tricia McMillan, our producer of Open Line,
S1: is here. She's got the mailbag. She's put it all together.
S1: Before we get right back to the questions, I want
S1: to tell you about a terrific offer from Open Line.
S1: When autumn rolls around, people are always interested in the
S1: Jewish fall holy days. That's why Chosen People Ministries is
S1: offering a free booklet, Celebrate Israel's High Holidays. This booklet
S1: explores the fall Jewish High holidays of Rosh Hashanah, which
S1: is the New Year, Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement,
S1: and Sukkot, the Feast of Booths. Don't miss out, just
S1: go to the Open Line website. Open Line radio.org. Scroll
S1: down and click on the link that says A free
S1: gift from Chosen People Ministries that will take you to
S1: a page where you can sign up for your very
S1: own copy of Celebrate Israel's High Holy Days. Okay, Tricia,
S1: we're we're ready to hit these questions one more time.
S1: All right. Okay.
S2: Next question is you have your.
S1: Favorites picked out, right?
S2: Sure. They're all your favorites. They're all my favorites. They're these. Yeah.
S2: I actually had to stop myself. I was like, okay,
S2: we won't have time to get to all of these,
S2: so I'll just stop and I'll just make another one
S2: for later. So Elaine wrote us from Miami, Florida, listens
S2: to R&B. In John ten, Jesus says, I am the
S2: good shepherd and I know my own. In verse 16
S2: of that chapter he says, I have other sheep that
S2: are not of this fold. I must bring them also.
S2: Who are these other sheep he's talking about? Yeah. Is
S2: it Gentiles, or is it some other group of people?
S1: It does appear that this is, you know, one of
S1: the things that Ephesians says, and this is kind of
S1: interesting to me. The Old Testament. Let's start there. The
S1: Old Testament always foretells that there will come a day
S1: when the Messiah comes, when the nations will know him.
S1: It doesn't predict the church. There's no place in the
S1: Old Testament where it predicts the the church. But the
S1: Old Testament, particularly, uh, in the Psalms and in the prophets,
S1: it foretells a day when the nations will know him.
S1: It actually starts way back in Genesis, in Genesis 4910,
S1: where it talks about the lion of the tribe of
S1: Judah will come, and to him shall be the obedience
S1: of the peoples. And it uses the plural word there,
S1: so that it indicates that one day the nations will come,
S1: that the peoples will will submit to this king from
S1: the tribe of Judah. And then, uh, in the other
S1: passage I was thinking about is from the the prophets
S1: in Isaiah, where in the servant song it says, it's
S1: too small a thing. It's Isaiah 42. It's too small
S1: a thing for you to just be the the Redeemer
S1: of Israel. This is what he says. I have called you.
S1: This is what he says to the Messiah. God says, I,
S1: the Lord God, have called you for a righteous purpose.
S1: I will keep you, and I will make you a
S1: covenant of the people and a light to the nations.
S1: And so God promises him that I will make you
S1: a light to the nations. And then he says in
S1: Isaiah 49, it's too small a thing for you to
S1: be a light just to Israel. I'm going to or
S1: the Redeemer of Israel. I'll make you a light to
S1: the nations. Uh, and uh, it is kind of amazing when,
S1: when we see this, that there's this promise that that
S1: God says, I'm going to do this and bring the
S1: nations to know me. And so then, of course, you
S1: come to John And in John ten, this is what
S1: Jesus is saying. He's saying that I am not just
S1: the Messiah of Israel. I'm not just the King of Israel,
S1: but also I am the the one who will redeem
S1: the world. John three starts that way. For God so
S1: loved the world, right? And so here in John, what's
S1: the verse that she is citing verse 1616? Yeah. She says, uh,
S1: I have other sheep that are not of this fold.
S1: I must bring them also, and they will listen to
S1: my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd.
S1: And so the idea there is a promise, sort of
S1: a quiet hint that the church is coming and there's
S1: going to be this one, people composed of Jews and Gentiles,
S1: the one new man described in Ephesians two. And Jesus
S1: is going to bring them together into one body in
S1: the body of Christ. The body of Christ starts when
S1: the church acts. Two and then the first gentile is
S1: converted and brought in, and that is Cornelius. And then
S1: Paul writes in Ephesians two how there's this one new man,
S1: Jew and Gentile, together. Now there's still I mean, Jews
S1: are Jews, and Gentiles are Gentiles, but spiritually fully equal
S1: in in the body of the Messiah. So there's a
S1: lot of content there. Yeah. Uh, but that's what I
S1: believe Jesus is hinting at to us.
S2: Okay. And when John wrote this, was the church already
S2: in existence? Yes. So he could have because he. John's
S2: the one at the end who says, I've included these
S2: specific stories. There's a lot more he said and did.
S2: But these are the important things that I think you
S2: need to know. Um, that he could have included this
S2: because it already existed, and it was kind of saying
S2: he did talk about it. Look at this. He's kind
S2: of he's.
S1: Clarifying what you see before you.
S2: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Very cool. Thanks for that question.
S2: Elaine joins us from Illinois, listens to Wmbi. In Philippians 217,
S2: Paul talks about being poured out like a drink offering.
S2: So that verse says, but even if I am poured
S2: out as a drink offering on the sacrifice and service
S2: of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all
S2: of you. In Luke 2220, Jesus says, this cup which
S2: is poured out for you is the new covenant in
S2: my blood. Wouldn't this be a drink offering if yes,
S2: it seems like Jesus sacrifice would fulfill the need for this.
S2: Before Jesus died, he said, it is finished. Why would
S2: God then want Paul to be a drink offering?
S3: Uh, you know, it's interesting. I think the idea of
S3: a drink offering, of course, comes. It's in the it's
S3: in the the law in numbers 15. There's a lot
S3: of things about drink offerings. One part of an offering
S3: often would be a sacrificial animal offering. And then there
S3: would be a pouring out of a libation, a of wine,
S3: along with that sacrifice. So often it didn't stand alone,
S3: but it was part of two things. And so but
S3: the but the idea is.
S1: When Paul says that in Philippians 217, he's saying, basically,
S1: my life is like that drink offering. I'm pouring out
S1: my life in service to you and pouring.
S3: Out my life in service to you. Right? Yeah. And
S3: and Jesus, of course, was saying, you know, his life
S3: was poured out in service for us. He he died
S3: and rose again. That was part of the atonement sacrifice.
S3: But there's also another picture of when Jesus says, let
S3: this cup pass from me, might be referring not so
S3: much to the drink offering idea of the cup of
S3: an offering, but of judgment, of undergoing the the the
S3: judgment of death. Because another picture of the cup in
S3: the Old Testament is the cup of the wrath of
S3: God's judgment. And we see that in Jeremiah 25 and
S3: Isaiah 55, Psalm 60. So I think there are two
S3: images here that are at play.
S1: The imagery of judgment in the Old Testament is it's
S1: like God takes out a cup and he pours out
S1: his wrath, right.
S2: Which we see again in revelation. Yeah, right. The right judgment.
S1: Yeah. The bowl judgments. Yeah. So basically what Jesus is
S1: saying here is let this cup of your wrath pass
S1: from me. If I if it were possible. But obviously
S1: it wasn't. But what the Lord Jesus was saying is,
S1: this is a very hard thing to undergo the wrath
S1: of God and take on the punishment that everyone deserves.
S1: And so, uh, there is his humanity. And I think
S1: that's so important. We often think of the Lord Jesus
S1: as God man and we emphasize God. Mhm. And we
S1: forget that he's God man and he's also man. And
S1: there is the, the pain of, of falling under the
S1: wrath of God that it would have. That's a hard
S1: thing to.
S3: Now the other cup that she's mentioning here in Luke 2220.
S3: That's the third one, is the third cup. The third
S3: way to look at it. Right. This is happening at
S3: the at the final Passover that Jesus had with his disciples.
S3: And at that point, he took one of the four
S3: cups of the Passover service, the third cup of the
S3: Passover service.
S1: And each cup had symbolic significance. And the third cup
S1: was the cup of redemption at the Passover meal. Now
S1: they're not listed out, but it's the meal, the cup
S1: that they took after they had eaten that he he
S1: uses here. That's the third cup in a Passover meal,
S1: and the third cup is the cup of redemption. And
S1: that's what he was talking about there. The cup of
S1: redemption in the Passover meal always reminded us that God
S1: redeemed us from slavery in Egypt by the blood of
S1: a lamb. And so Jesus really now is mentioning this
S1: third cup as his redemption. This is the new covenant
S1: in my blood. He has redeemed us by his own
S1: blood and established the new covenant with it. And he
S1: uses the the cup of redemption to do that.
S3: So let me just add here that when the disciples
S3: heard him say, this is the new covenant, They didn't think, oh,
S3: this is a new idea that I've never heard of before,
S3: but they would remember what the prophet Jeremiah had said
S3: that the days are coming, declares the Lord. This is
S3: in Jeremiah 3131, when I will make a new covenant
S3: with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
S3: not like the covenant that I made at Sinai, but
S3: this covenant will I will make with the house of
S3: Israel after those days the final covenant. That was the
S3: covenant that was introduced right here by Jesus. That's the
S3: new covenant.
S1: So so here's the thing. Here's a little hermeneutics lesson.
S1: You see the word cup. Don't presume that every time
S1: you see the word cup it means exactly the same thing.
S1: You have to say, okay, in context, what is he
S1: alluding to? So you have the cup of judgment that's there.
S1: There's also libations, right? That's the one that Paul was
S1: referring to. And then what Jesus was talking about in
S1: terms of the this is the new covenant in my blood.
S1: That third cup that that's a different cup. Yet it's
S1: the cup from Passover. So, uh, one of the mistakes
S1: that we make is we get things to be we
S1: say they're all the same thing and they're not. And
S1: I see people make that same mistake all the time
S1: when they're studying the Bible. They grab one word and
S1: they want to make it represent the same thing every place.
S1: We have to read it in context, know what the
S1: whole word is talking about and refer to that. Does
S1: that make sense to everyone? Yeah, yeah, I think I
S1: think when we give words technical meaning, uh, one of
S1: one of my favorites is that people will pull the
S1: word where Stephen talks about the church in the wilderness
S1: and they say, oh, see, there's a church in the
S1: Old Testament. No, there wasn't the word ecclesia that that
S1: he uses just means the gathering. And it comes to
S1: mean something later on of a gathering of, you know,
S1: the body of Christ. But when when Stephen uses it,
S1: he's just using it as a gathering. And then when
S1: it's used in acts 19, it's used of a mob.
S1: So you can't always give it a technical sense. You
S1: have to be careful and read it in its context.
S1: So anyway, that's how the.
S3: Cup is more than a cup.
S1: Or sometimes many times more. We're going to be back
S1: with more of the questions you've sent in on this
S1: special all male bag, all the time edition of Open
S1: Line with Tricia McMillan and me, Mike Radonich. So don't
S1: go away.
UU: We'll be right back.
S1: We're so glad that Febc partners with Open Line with
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S1: Welcome to Open Line with Michael Zelnick. I'm glad that
S1: you're joining me today. We want to get through all
S1: the questions that have been piling up in the mailbag.
S1: And so Tricia McMillan made a huge mailbag for today.
S1: And I invited Eva Radulovic to join us, because together,
S1: we're going to go through this assortment of questions that
S1: you've mailed in. And so don't call today. Just listen in.
S1: Perhaps your question that you mailed in will be answered. Well, Tricia.
S2: Yes.
S1: Okay.
S2: You ready?
S1: You got you have you have them here for me
S1: I see it, and Eva's ready. So. All right.
S2: We're going to go to first Peter three. Okay.
S1: Oh there we go.
S2: So we had two listeners who wrote us with this
S2: similar question, Juanita in Chattanooga, Tennessee. And Rosa wrote us
S2: on Facebook. Um, does first Peter 319 mean that Jesus
S2: went to hell and preached during the three days he
S2: was in the grave? I know Christ told the thief
S2: on the cross next to him, today you will be
S2: with me in Paradise. So when a person told me
S2: that first Peter 319 meant that Christ went to hell
S2: and preached, I was very disturbed. She's a regular Saturday
S2: morning listener. And then Rosa wanted to know, because the
S2: Bible says that Jesus descended to hell before he went
S2: up to the father. What was the purpose of it? Okay. Well,
S2: so did he descend to hell? I mean, what?
S3: That's the bottom line right there.
S2: Well.
S1: In in the gospels, at the crucifixion, it is absolutely
S1: true that Jesus said, this day you'll be together with
S1: me in Paradise. He said that to the thief. And
S1: I believe that was when the Lord Jesus went. Well,
S1: he says, father, into your hands I commit my spirit. Right.
S1: So His spirit went to be with his father immediately
S1: upon death. He was. The word Paradise has to do
S1: with the Jewish word that was called that we would
S1: call heaven. The presence of God. And so it doesn't
S1: appear to me that Jesus descended to hell. So first
S1: Peter three. What's it talking about, Eva? Do you have
S1: your first Peter three there in in the official the
S1: new American Standard Version?
S3: Do you want me to start to read.
S1: Read verses, uh.
S3: 17 through 19?
S1: Uh, yeah. Do that. For it is.
S3: Better if God should will it so that, uh.
S1: Start with verse 18.
S3: Yeah. For Messiah also died for sin once for all
S3: the just for the unjust, so that he might bring
S3: us to God, having been put to death in the flesh,
S3: but made alive in the spirit, in which also he
S3: went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
S3: who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept
S3: waiting in the days of Noah during the construction of
S3: the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons
S3: were brought safely through.
S1: That's good. So here we go. It seems to me
S1: that people have made a an idea that that they
S1: took it from the Apostles Creed, where it says he
S1: descended to hell. It never says that he descended to hell.
S1: It says that he he went. How does your verse
S1: 19 say in that way? Or is it in.
S3: Which also he went and made proclamation? So he talked
S3: about the spirit, and then in which he also.
S1: Made he made proclamation to the spirits in prison. I
S1: believe that should be understood as the spirits who are
S1: now in prison.
S3: New American standard supplies that. Yeah.
S1: The spirits who are now in prison, who in the
S1: past were disobedient when God patiently waited in the days
S1: of Noah. So it's talking about here's what happened. There
S1: were people who were disobedient in the days of Noah.
S1: That's why God judged the world. And during the whole
S1: time Noah was building the ark, he's telling them to
S1: repent and they remain disobedient. And the message was proclaimed
S1: to them to repent and they wouldn't listen. And so
S1: he went and made proclamation to the spirits who are
S1: now in prison, when? When they were still alive. How
S1: did he do it? Through Noah.
S2: So the in prison, though, is referring to hell.
S1: It's referring to people who are bound, awaiting future judgment. Okay. Yeah.
S1: So they're.
S3: There now. But when they were hearing the message, they
S3: were alive in the days of Noah. And it was
S3: being taught to them by Noah, by the power of
S3: the Holy Spirit.
S1: Yeah. And in the same way, I mean that people say, well,
S1: why does it say that Jesus proclaimed Jesus proclaimed it
S1: through Noah in the same way that it says in
S1: Ephesians two he preached peace to those of you who
S1: are far, and those of you who are near. Uh, well,
S1: Jesus really didn't go preach to the Gentiles. But the
S1: reason he did it is he preached through the. It
S1: can say that he preached to the those who were
S1: far the Gentiles. Why? Because he preached through the apostles
S1: to the Gentiles. And so to say that Jesus preached
S1: to someone doesn't mean or made proclamation doesn't mean that
S1: he had to have proclaimed it to them directly. He
S1: could use agents like Noah or the apostles to accomplish that.
S1: So I don't think it's talking about Jesus going to hell.
S1: The only other verse I think that people really rest
S1: on for saying that Jesus descended to hell is from John.
S1: When Mary Magdalene meets Jesus in the garden after the resurrection.
S1: She thinks he's the gardener. Do you remember that verse
S1: at the empty tomb? And she's crying and she doesn't
S1: recognize him. And then she sees him and he says
S1: in verse 17 of John 20, I have not yet
S1: ascended to the father. Let don't touch me. I've not
S1: yet ascended to the father. A lot of versions say,
S1: don't touch me. But the the, the clearest meaning of
S1: the Greek is stop clinging to me. I have not
S1: yet ascended to the father. That doesn't mean that his
S1: spirit didn't go to be with the father. Uh, when
S1: he died. But rather what that saying is I have
S1: not yet ascended as I will in acts one, 40
S1: days later. 40 days later. Literally bodily ascent. I've not
S1: done that. I'm still here with you. I'm going to
S1: be with you. Don't. You can let go of me.
S1: I'm not going anywhere. That's really what he's saying. I've
S1: not yet ascended to the father. I'm here with you,
S1: and I'm going to be teaching you guys for the
S1: next 40 days. That's what he did. And so that's
S1: not saying that there's some sort of, like, dangerous. Don't
S1: touch me. I'm not yet ascended. Uh, that's not what
S1: it's saying. Uh, it's saying I've not yet ascended to
S1: the father. You can let go of me. Okay.
S2: All right. Thank you for that. I hope that cleared
S2: it up for you. Rosa and Juanita and.
S1: I love one of the things that Wayne Grudem once
S1: said that about the Apostles Creed. He does remind us
S1: that the Apostles Creed that has this the earliest versions
S1: did not did not say that. And he said, even
S1: if it's old, even if it's an old error, it's
S1: still an error. So I like that even old mistakes
S1: are still mistakes. So.
S2: All right. Thank you. Our next question is from Esther
S2: in Tampa, Florida. Listens to kiss the Bible lists in
S2: first Corinthians six nine and ten, a group of people
S2: that will not inherit God's kingdom. Does this include believers
S2: that still uphold these habitual ungodly practices? Churches today are
S2: preaching that once you're saved, your past, current, and future
S2: sins are washed and covered by the blood of Christ
S2: and that they will go to heaven despite habitual knowing sins.
S2: In my heart, I see societies plummeting because of that
S2: philosophy or doctrine that I believe is deceptive based on
S2: what she thinks. First Corinthians six nine and ten is saying.
S2: So is that what it's saying? That this is believers
S2: who are still doing these practices?
S1: I mean, I look at this verse and it says
S1: it lists all these sins And obviously some are sexual,
S1: some are not. Uh, I think it's interesting that swindlers
S1: are included in there, but they're all very serious.
S2: Sins and greedy.
S1: People. Greedy people. Yeah, yeah. And, uh, covetous people.
S3: Yeah.
S1: Some of you were like this, but you were washed.
S1: You were sanctified. You were justified in the name of
S1: the Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our God.
S1: That's talking. I find it interesting. He doesn't say you
S1: changed your behavior so much as you changed your spiritual condition. Now,
S1: I do believe he says, you were like this, but
S1: you're no longer. But what happened to them? They believed
S1: in Jesus and their sins were washed away.
S3: So she's looking at this verse. It's not really saying
S3: what she's saying.
S1: It's saying no. But they were changed. They were sanctified.
S1: And the word justified means declared righteous, not on the
S1: basis of our merit, not on the basis of our deeds,
S1: but declared righteous based on the righteousness of the Lord Jesus.
S1: That's what this is saying. We are declared righteous not
S1: because of anything we've done, but because of what he
S1: has done. And so that's a crucial perspective to get.
S1: And I do believe that Romans eight one is clear.
S1: There is no condemnation for those of us who are
S1: in Messiah Jesus. If we've put our trust in Jesus,
S1: our sins are forgiven past, present, and future. What do we.
S3: That doesn't mean, though, because they were forgiven that we
S3: can do anything we want. No, no. Should we sin?
S3: That grace may abound?
S1: Romans six says no, no.
S3: May it never be. Yeah.
S1: But on the other hand, there's a pattern. Sometimes if
S1: someone's in a just an uncaring, habitual sin, they just.
S1: This is what I do. This is me, man. This
S1: is what I'm like. Uh, then that might reflect someone
S1: that really doesn't understand the grace of God.
S3: The Popeye philosophy. I am what I am. Maybe you
S3: don't know what's going on.
S1: Yeah. Maybe you've never really trust the Lord. But other
S1: people struggle with sin and constantly confess it and turn
S1: it over to the Lord. The Lord's going to keep
S1: forgiving them and restoring them. That's that's a different story.
S1: So anyway, we're going to be back with more of
S1: your questions in just a moment with Tricia McMillan, Eva
S1: Dolnick and me, Michael Dolnick right here on Open Line.
S1: Stay with us. Sometimes we want to read the Bible
S1: but don't know how to get the most out of it.
S1: My friend, Moody Professor Doctor Jim Coakley, has written 14
S1: Fresh Ways to Enjoy the Bible, a book that helps
S1: us understand the full riches of Scripture by giving 14
S1: practical principles to bring them to life. Request your copy
S1: today with a gift of any amount to open line,
S1: call (888) 644-7122 or visit Open Line radio.org. Welcome back to
S1: this special edition of Open Line. It's special because it's
S1: all your questions that you've sent in. It's an all
S1: mailbag bag all the time addition. Tricia McMillan put it together.
S1: Eva Radulovics joining me. But before we get back to
S1: the questions, have you become a kitchen table partner yet?
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S1: be a kitchen table partner today. Okay. And now my
S1: partners here at the kitchen table today. The radio kitchen
S1: table with the bottles of water instead of cups of coffee.
S1: I don't know if we can cope with this.
S2: I have a cup of coffee.
S1: Oh, there we go.
S2: There he goes. Our next question is from Wesley in Tennessee.
S2: Listen to Wpcm in Hebrews chapter ten, there's a passage
S2: that talks about trampling in the blood of trampling on
S2: the blood of Christ. Uh, he wants to know who
S2: this audience is that that it was being written to.
S2: It seems that it would be hard to go on
S2: sinning when just a couple chapters later, the author talks
S2: about being chastised by the Lord as a believer who
S2: continues in sin. So this is Hebrews ten starting at
S2: verse 26, and it goes through 29.
S1: Yeah, but here's what I'll read. If we deliberately sin
S1: after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer
S1: remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of
S1: judgment and the fury of fire about to consume the adversaries.
S1: And then how? If you scroll down, he's talking about
S1: those who in the law of Moses were punished. Then
S1: verse 29, how much worse punishment do you think one
S1: will deserve? Who has trampled the Son of God, regarded
S1: as profane, as ordinary, as insignificant, the blood of the
S1: covenant by which he was sanctified and insulted, the spirit
S1: of grace. Now, just to we have to understand the audience.
S1: This is a book written to the Hebrews that means
S1: to Jewish people. And these were Jewish people undergoing serious
S1: persecution just before the in the early 60s. That's the
S1: period of time. And some people were thinking, you know,
S1: what we need to do? What we should do is
S1: just stop identifying as followers of Jesus, kind of go
S1: back to traditional Judaism. And then when everything blows over,
S1: we can we can then get back. We can do that.
S1: But we don't have to identify as believers now. And
S1: so the writer of Hebrews is writing to the whole group.
S1: And yet he has these asides, these parenthetical portions where
S1: he warns those who are thinking about abandoning the faith
S1: and he thinks better of them. He doesn't think they
S1: will abandon the faith. But he's saying, if you abandon
S1: the faith, you're demonstrating that you really never knew the Lord,
S1: that if you apostatize, it demonstrates an evil, unbelieving heart
S1: that is not the heart of a believer, but it
S1: is the heart of someone who never knew the Lord.
S1: He's saying, you will have come close, but you know
S1: you really don't know him. And so in verse 26,
S1: he's it says, if we deliberately sin after receiving the
S1: knowledge of the truth in that context, it's not talking about,
S1: you know, I keep committing this particular sin and you
S1: can name the sin, uh, but it is talking about
S1: A special, specific sin that he's been talking about. And
S1: that's the sin of apostasy. If we deliberately commit the
S1: sin of apostasy after we know what's true, then the
S1: benefits of the atonement are no longer ours. Because what
S1: we're doing is we're taking the precious blood of the
S1: Messiah and trampling it under foot and saying it's not
S1: anything special at all. And so therefore, if we do that,
S1: we demonstrate that we don't know the Lord. So that's
S1: the specific sin it's talking about. Okay. Uh, did you
S1: want to add anything on that? No. That's good. Yeah. Okay.
S2: Thanks, Wesley, for that question. Dottie wrote us in Conyers, Georgia.
S2: Listens on our mobile app. What resources do you recommend
S2: for understanding end times prophecy?
S3: Yes, a couple that I thought when I saw that note,
S3: I thought Paul Walker's book on End Times prophecy. Just
S3: really basic.
S2: Understanding. End times prophecy.
S1: Yeah, I think it's the best book there is on that.
S3: Yeah. And if you are, if you really enjoy Erwin
S3: Lutzer style of writing, he also wrote The Coming King,
S3: which has to do with, yeah, I know the.
S1: Guy that wrote the foreword on that one.
S3: I heard that. I heard I heard of that guy.
S3: So I think those would be two good resources from
S3: a slightly different perspective, but good resources. Understanding end Times
S3: prophecy by Ben. Where or the Coming King by Erwin Lutzer. Yeah.
S1: Now, the thing Lutzer is definitely, uh, Pastor Luther's is
S1: very much more pastoral.
S3: Mhm. So it's kind of perspective.
S1: And then Paul Benware, it's a little bit more, uh, content, uh,
S1: more detailed in the content I would say. Uh, and
S1: both of them are really good friends of ours. And
S1: so I'm happy for anyone to read either of those books. Uh,
S1: but they're really, really helpful. Both of them. I really
S1: I really like the. If you want a little bit
S1: more detail about end times understanding end times prophecy. Uh,
S1: Paul Benware and both of them, by the way, are
S1: available through the Moody Publishers catalog.
S3: They're both. Moody publishers books.
S2: Great. Thanks for that question, Dottie. So that leads us into.
S2: Then Lisa wrote us. Sorry. Liz wrote us in Valparaiso, Indiana.
S2: Listens to WNBA. She's wondering if Christ will come back
S2: when everyone he has predetermined to give eternal life to
S2: has received it. Like, is that what we're waiting for?
S2: That there's this.
S3: The magic number.
S2: Is. Yeah. Like, okay, everyone's got the question. Um, number.
S3: 16 is.
S2: When Christ comes back. Is that because everyone he has
S2: predetermined to give eternal life to has received it? Is
S2: that kind of the trigger? Oh, there's number whatever that. Okay.
S2: It flips this magic switch, and now now he can
S2: come back. Is that what we're waiting for? I love.
S4: It. I love.
S3: That image. Like Hollywood.
S1: No, I just don't, you know, I don't know. Uh,
S1: no one knows when he's coming back. He's. He will
S1: come back when it says, In Romans 11, uh, let's see, uh,
S1: Romans 11 that it talks about the not the times
S1: of the Gentiles, but the, uh, the fullness of the
S1: Gentiles come in, says so that this is and it's
S1: talking here at the end of the tribulation period, uh, the,
S1: the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Uh, and
S1: in this way. And then all Israel will be saved.
S1: And so it's talking about that when I think the
S1: the last Gentile person will be saved. It doesn't say
S1: that God said, okay, that's the elect. Flip the switch.
S1: But when the last Gentile is saved, when the fullness
S1: of the Gentiles, when God has completed his work that
S1: he's doing to bring Gentile nations in, then, uh, the
S1: the nation of Israel will turn in faith to Jesus,
S1: and then he will be, all Israel will be saved.
S1: He'll save Israel. And that that's through the second coming.
S1: So I just don't I don't I think it may
S1: be so what she's saying, I just don't uh, that's
S1: sort of saying the election, God has determined the whole thing.
S1: And then, like you say, the switch.
S2: I'm just waiting for that person right there. Okay, that
S2: was it. That was my trigger. I don't think.
S1: It's like that. So. But, you know, I can see
S1: where the person's thinking that. But no.
S2: Yeah. Okay. Well, thanks for that question. Uh, and then
S2: Eunice wrote us from Miami, Florida. Revelation one seven says
S2: they will see him coming from heaven, even those who
S2: pierced him. Does this mean the ones who pierced Jesus
S2: were saved after Christ's death? My understanding of the rapture
S2: is that those who believe will be taken up. So
S2: in 60s or less. Yeah.
S1: Okay, I'm going to do this quick. Uh, revelation one
S1: seven is an allusion to Zechariah 1210, which is been.
S1: It says there that the they will look upon me
S1: whom they have pierced, as one mourns for an only son.
S1: And then this is saying in revelation one seven that
S1: all the tram, all the tribes of the land will
S1: mourn over him. That's talking about the Jewish people. So
S1: it's just saying that the Jewish people who were involved
S1: as a nation in the death of the Messiah, not
S1: all individuals, but that they will recognize him and turn
S1: in faith to him. So that's what it's talking about.
S1: I can't believe that's the that's the our. We have
S1: another hour of open line coming up on most of
S1: these stations, so stick with us. Check out our web
S1: page openlibrary.org. It's got everything you might need, everything you
S1: might want. All the links that you're looking for. Uh, also,
S1: be sure you can, uh, keep listening to the next hour.
S1: We'll talk more about all these things. Open line with
S1: Doctor Michael Jelinek is a production of Moody Radio, a
S1: ministry of Moody Bible Institute.