1 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,959 S1: The holidays inspire generosity, but God calls us to something deeper. 2 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,880 S1: Walking alongside those in need in ways that restore dignity 3 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,400 S1: and hope. Hi, I'm Rob West. While Christmas is a 4 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:25,600 S1: season of giving, true, impactful generosity requires wisdom. God invites 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,400 S1: us to go beyond a one time act of charity 6 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,840 S1: and into relationships that mirror his heart for renewal. Today 7 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,839 S1: we're joined by Lisa Sheltra to talk about helping the 8 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,919 S1: poor this Christmas and long after. Then it's on to 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,839 S1: your calls at 800 525 7000. This is faith in finance. 10 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:52,240 S1: Live biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, our guest 11 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,000 S1: today is Lisa Sheltra, director of community engagement at Salt 12 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,910 S1: and Light, a ministry committed to helping without hurting by 13 00:00:59,910 --> 00:01:04,750 S1: offering support that empowers rather than creating dependency. Lisa, what 14 00:01:04,790 --> 00:01:05,949 S1: a treat to have you with us. 15 00:01:06,230 --> 00:01:08,390 S2: Oh, thanks so much. It's good to be here today. 16 00:01:08,910 --> 00:01:12,869 S1: Lisa. Many people feel an extra tug toward generosity during 17 00:01:12,870 --> 00:01:17,229 S1: the Christmas season. Philippians two four says, let each of 18 00:01:17,230 --> 00:01:19,950 S1: you look not only to his own interests, but also 19 00:01:19,950 --> 00:01:23,030 S1: to the interests of others, which I think really captures 20 00:01:23,030 --> 00:01:27,070 S1: the spirit of what we're discussing today. Entering into someone's 21 00:01:27,069 --> 00:01:31,270 S1: life with humility and genuine care. So let's start there. 22 00:01:31,270 --> 00:01:34,910 S1: How would you describe this deeper kind of generosity? 23 00:01:35,510 --> 00:01:39,470 S2: That's a great question. Um, I love that because, um, 24 00:01:39,670 --> 00:01:42,190 S2: you know, a lot of times at the holidays, but 25 00:01:42,190 --> 00:01:46,789 S2: also year round people think about generosity as just, um, 26 00:01:46,830 --> 00:01:50,630 S2: giving things freely. Um, and that's part of it. But 27 00:01:50,630 --> 00:01:54,390 S2: I think that for us, as a faith based organization, 28 00:01:54,390 --> 00:01:58,450 S2: giving has to flow out of, um, our relationship with 29 00:01:58,450 --> 00:02:04,090 S2: Christ and the grace and love that we find present there. So, um, 30 00:02:04,130 --> 00:02:07,690 S2: you know, the Bible gives us a model of what, um, 31 00:02:07,730 --> 00:02:10,970 S2: giving and love looks like because, you know, it tells 32 00:02:10,970 --> 00:02:14,450 S2: us how God gave to us. So, yeah. Um, I 33 00:02:14,450 --> 00:02:17,090 S2: like to think about this just through sort of the 34 00:02:17,090 --> 00:02:20,810 S2: framework of John 316. You know, it talks about that 35 00:02:20,810 --> 00:02:25,049 S2: when God so loved us, um, what he gave us 36 00:02:25,050 --> 00:02:29,890 S2: was not something temporary or material or anything like that. 37 00:02:29,930 --> 00:02:32,850 S2: You know, he gave us Christ, which is, um, what 38 00:02:32,889 --> 00:02:37,929 S2: addresses our deepest brokenness and, um, all the things, all 39 00:02:37,930 --> 00:02:42,089 S2: the places where we need restoration. And, you know, he 40 00:02:42,090 --> 00:02:45,810 S2: did that. Um, so that we could have life that 41 00:02:45,810 --> 00:02:51,130 S2: is thriving, flourishing instead of an experience of brokenness and destruction. 42 00:02:51,130 --> 00:02:53,730 S2: So for us, if we're going to show God's love 43 00:02:53,730 --> 00:02:57,280 S2: to others, then that kind of generosity needs to be reflected, 44 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:02,920 S2: not just offering relief, but a full vision for restoration, 45 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,680 S2: for reconciliation, of of all our relationships. And so that 46 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:11,359 S2: to us means, you know, living deeply together in a 47 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,880 S2: Kingdom community, in a Christ centered community like that, you know, 48 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,600 S2: needs are met as a function of that community life, 49 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,079 S2: of the relationships that we have with one another. Um, 50 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,600 S2: and it's more and deeper and fuller, um, than sort 51 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:31,239 S2: of like random anonymous giving or, you know, one time, um, 52 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,600 S2: transactional events or something like that. 53 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,160 S1: That's really well said. I want to dig into that 54 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:40,160 S1: idea of just providing relief, because many churches feel the 55 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,320 S1: pressure in December to default to handouts, food drives, toy drives, 56 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,200 S1: clothing drives, and those are good things. But what's the 57 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,080 S1: challenge when we rely too heavily on relief alone? 58 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,600 S2: Yeah, so there are definitely times when relief is necessary, 59 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,710 S2: but because of its nature that it takes place by 60 00:03:57,710 --> 00:04:02,230 S2: definition in situations where there's a giver receiver imbalance. You know, 61 00:04:02,270 --> 00:04:05,270 S2: it's a one way process. And so when we extend 62 00:04:05,270 --> 00:04:09,510 S2: that imbalance by making relief the norm, that is we 63 00:04:09,510 --> 00:04:12,910 S2: always feel like that's relationally unproductive. And also it's spiritually 64 00:04:12,910 --> 00:04:16,710 S2: unhealthy for people on both sides of the equation. So 65 00:04:16,990 --> 00:04:20,550 S2: holiday giving for all of us is a relational act, right? 66 00:04:20,589 --> 00:04:22,630 S2: We give gifts to the people we love as a 67 00:04:22,630 --> 00:04:26,229 S2: part of that relationship. And so bringing relief into that 68 00:04:26,230 --> 00:04:30,670 S2: often takes away from people the opportunity for that relational 69 00:04:31,430 --> 00:04:34,630 S2: piece of giving, especially between parents and children. 70 00:04:34,910 --> 00:04:38,390 S1: Yeah. Excellent. Well, we're going to continue to unpack that 71 00:04:38,390 --> 00:04:42,150 S1: after the break as we talk about what this looks like. Again, 72 00:04:42,150 --> 00:04:45,430 S1: relief is great, but how do we go beyond that 73 00:04:45,430 --> 00:04:50,750 S1: and truly providing development and giving in community in a 74 00:04:50,750 --> 00:04:56,370 S1: way that fosters renewal and restoration as God designed it. 75 00:04:56,370 --> 00:04:59,170 S1: Perhaps you're wanting to help this Christmas season, but you 76 00:04:59,170 --> 00:05:02,010 S1: don't want to cause harm. How do you do that? Well, 77 00:05:02,050 --> 00:05:05,130 S1: Lisa has some great advice and counsel for you. We're 78 00:05:05,130 --> 00:05:08,890 S1: talking today with Lisa Shelter, director of community engagement at 79 00:05:08,890 --> 00:05:12,770 S1: Salt and Light. Following this interview, your questions today at 80 00:05:12,770 --> 00:05:17,370 S1: 800 525 7000. A quick break and back with much 81 00:05:17,370 --> 00:05:34,730 S1: more right after this. Stay with us. How do you 82 00:05:34,730 --> 00:05:37,570 S1: help the poor this Christmas season? Well, we have some 83 00:05:37,570 --> 00:05:41,330 S1: thoughts for you on that as we invite you into 84 00:05:41,330 --> 00:05:45,330 S1: a giving opportunity that goes well beyond a one time 85 00:05:45,370 --> 00:05:50,170 S1: act of charity and into relationships that mirror God's heart 86 00:05:50,170 --> 00:05:53,680 S1: for renewal. We're joined today by Lisa Shelter, director of 87 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,440 S1: community engagement at Salt and Light, a ministry committed to 88 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:01,839 S1: helping without hurting by offering support that empowers rather than 89 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:06,120 S1: creating dependency. And Lisa. Before the break, we were talking 90 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,960 S1: about what this model of giving looks like. I know 91 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,159 S1: you work closely with the Chalmers Center, which often emphasizes 92 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,080 S1: the distinction between relief and development. I'd love for you 93 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:18,880 S1: to unpack what that means. 94 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,320 S2: Yeah, that's something we talk about a lot, because historically, 95 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,159 S2: we haven't done a great job in distinguishing between those 96 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,000 S2: two things. So relief, um, is something that addresses the urgent, 97 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,520 S2: immediate need, um, relief. Uh, we say sometimes is the tourniquet. 98 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:38,000 S2: It's what stops the bleeding. Right? Um, but development is 99 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,560 S2: long term. So that's about walking together with people as 100 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,679 S2: they use their own gifts and abilities to come to 101 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,000 S2: a healed situation. So most times when people are in 102 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,550 S2: need at the holidays, what you're seeing there is actually 103 00:06:51,550 --> 00:06:56,430 S2: development needs, not relief needs. And so, um, in other words, 104 00:06:56,430 --> 00:06:58,789 S2: if they are struggling at the holidays, they probably are 105 00:06:58,790 --> 00:07:01,950 S2: struggling all the rest of the time. And so that 106 00:07:01,950 --> 00:07:05,310 S2: quick fix of, you know, bringing a basket of gifts 107 00:07:05,310 --> 00:07:09,229 S2: or whatever, or, you know, providing a holiday meal as relief, 108 00:07:09,230 --> 00:07:11,870 S2: it can feel satisfying to us as a giver, but 109 00:07:11,870 --> 00:07:16,790 S2: it doesn't typically do anything to move families forward to, um, finding, 110 00:07:16,830 --> 00:07:20,830 S2: you know, lasting community or long term solutions. It's like, um, 111 00:07:20,870 --> 00:07:24,670 S2: just applying a new tourniquet over and over. Right. Instead 112 00:07:24,670 --> 00:07:29,550 S2: of instead of addressing the wound. So, um, development grows, um, 113 00:07:29,590 --> 00:07:33,790 S2: dignity for the participants because they are, um, not just 114 00:07:33,790 --> 00:07:36,990 S2: part of the process. They're driving the process as well. 115 00:07:36,990 --> 00:07:41,590 S2: They're not just passively receiving, um, you know, whatever someone 116 00:07:41,590 --> 00:07:43,670 S2: else wants to hand to them. 117 00:07:43,870 --> 00:07:46,670 S1: Yeah. So let's unpack what this looks like a bit. 118 00:07:46,710 --> 00:07:49,850 S1: How does salt and light then stay anchored in dignity 119 00:07:50,090 --> 00:07:53,570 S1: while still responding well during, let's say, the Christmas season. 120 00:07:53,970 --> 00:07:57,929 S2: Well, so, you know, our empowerment model is in place 121 00:07:57,930 --> 00:08:02,690 S2: year round. So our families participate in the program all 122 00:08:02,690 --> 00:08:07,210 S2: the time through, um, their own investment in the program. 123 00:08:07,490 --> 00:08:10,450 S2: They are not being passive recipients of charity. We make 124 00:08:10,450 --> 00:08:14,410 S2: it possible for people to come into our regular stores 125 00:08:14,450 --> 00:08:16,890 S2: and be a customer and a guest, just like everyone else, 126 00:08:16,890 --> 00:08:22,290 S2: because we're creating opportunity, um, for them to have their own, um, currency, 127 00:08:22,330 --> 00:08:26,330 S2: for them to exercise their own autonomy. And so that 128 00:08:26,330 --> 00:08:30,050 S2: holiday support just flows naturally out of the ongoing relationships 129 00:08:30,050 --> 00:08:34,890 S2: that we have with the participants in our program. So families, um, 130 00:08:34,929 --> 00:08:40,370 S2: have the opportunity to provide gifts for their own loved ones, 131 00:08:40,370 --> 00:08:43,410 S2: and they exercise their own choice. They select what fits 132 00:08:43,410 --> 00:08:47,130 S2: their needs, what they know you know, their children will like. Um, 133 00:08:47,170 --> 00:08:49,719 S2: and what we find is that's really powerful. You know, 134 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:51,600 S2: we have people tell us, like, this is the first 135 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,199 S2: Christmas in eight years, I've been able to get my 136 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:55,880 S2: gifts for my family myself. 137 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,280 S1: Mhm. Oh, wow. I love that. Uh, we'll talk about 138 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,160 S1: what this looks like for individuals those listening today. But 139 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:06,679 S1: let's talk first about churches. How can churches then redirect 140 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,640 S1: that energy that you're describing towards something more effective a 141 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:11,559 S1: better model. 142 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:16,400 S2: Yeah. Great question. So here's some things that we encourage 143 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:20,199 S2: churches and organizations to think about. Uh, one thing is 144 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,560 S2: partnering with ministries that are already practicing development. Like you 145 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,640 S2: don't have to reinvent the wheel, but there are people 146 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:27,760 S2: out there that are doing that and are looking for 147 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,240 S2: somebody to come alongside. And a lot of times that 148 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,600 S2: involves volunteering. And so we try to tell people look 149 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,000 S2: to volunteer in ways that build relationships and consider that 150 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,000 S2: those relationships maybe are going to be ongoing, not just 151 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,080 S2: a one time transactional thing. Um, one thing that I 152 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,240 S2: always think of is, you know, we're we're here all 153 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:49,350 S2: year round, not just in November or December. Um, and so, um, 154 00:09:49,350 --> 00:09:52,190 S2: supporting something that's going to go on after the holidays 155 00:09:52,190 --> 00:09:54,230 S2: or getting involved in something that's going to go on 156 00:09:54,230 --> 00:09:57,550 S2: after the holidays as well is really important. And then, um, 157 00:09:57,590 --> 00:10:01,550 S2: try to encourage giving of your congregants that strengthens this 158 00:10:01,590 --> 00:10:04,390 S2: kind of sustainable ministry and is not just a sort 159 00:10:04,390 --> 00:10:07,830 S2: of one time consumable event. And the holidays is a 160 00:10:07,830 --> 00:10:10,870 S2: great time to use that moment when people are thinking about, um, 161 00:10:10,910 --> 00:10:14,350 S2: getting involved and enthusiastic about helping others to connect them 162 00:10:14,350 --> 00:10:16,790 S2: with something that is going to be a year round, um, 163 00:10:16,830 --> 00:10:17,990 S2: involvement for them. 164 00:10:18,270 --> 00:10:21,710 S1: Mm. Yeah. What about individuals? You know, a lot of 165 00:10:21,710 --> 00:10:25,750 S1: people maybe even discouraged, wanting to help, but unsure how 166 00:10:25,750 --> 00:10:28,709 S1: to do it without causing harm. So speak to that 167 00:10:28,710 --> 00:10:31,510 S1: listener today who wants to help. What does that look 168 00:10:31,510 --> 00:10:32,230 S1: like for them? 169 00:10:32,750 --> 00:10:35,110 S2: Yeah, I think that's definitely true. Some people are like, oh, well, 170 00:10:35,110 --> 00:10:37,110 S2: we're not supposed to give. So what are we supposed 171 00:10:37,110 --> 00:10:41,589 S2: to do? Right. Um, but I think as you come alongside, um, uh, 172 00:10:41,630 --> 00:10:44,470 S2: organizations that are doing this well or are connected with 173 00:10:44,650 --> 00:10:48,090 S2: individuals in need. Just being humble and willing to learn, 174 00:10:48,090 --> 00:10:51,250 S2: that's the most important part, because sometimes we come in 175 00:10:51,250 --> 00:10:54,250 S2: with the assumption that, you know, the surface needs are 176 00:10:54,450 --> 00:10:56,610 S2: all that we need to be concerned with, or we 177 00:10:56,610 --> 00:10:59,329 S2: don't have a good understanding of what the person's real 178 00:10:59,330 --> 00:11:02,730 S2: life needs are. And so we don't have to be perfect. Um, 179 00:11:02,770 --> 00:11:04,770 S2: as we start to do that, we just want to 180 00:11:04,770 --> 00:11:07,050 S2: be present with others. We want to be patient. We 181 00:11:07,050 --> 00:11:10,090 S2: want to be good listeners. And, you know, God is 182 00:11:10,090 --> 00:11:14,530 S2: going to honor those efforts. If we are approaching with humility, um, 183 00:11:14,570 --> 00:11:18,410 S2: we're being loving, gentle. We're honoring the other person's dignity. 184 00:11:18,650 --> 00:11:21,410 S2: And so I think the hardest thing about that is 185 00:11:21,410 --> 00:11:24,530 S2: then sometimes people feel like, well, it doesn't seem like enough. Right? 186 00:11:24,730 --> 00:11:27,250 S2: It feels great to say, like, we gave away, you know, 187 00:11:27,290 --> 00:11:31,290 S2: 900 turkeys. Um, but we have to start thinking that the, 188 00:11:31,290 --> 00:11:35,290 S2: the metric is, um, kingdom values. And that's much more 189 00:11:35,290 --> 00:11:39,810 S2: relational than, um, just running up numbers. Right? So the 190 00:11:39,850 --> 00:11:42,250 S2: goal isn't to do more, but to do good in 191 00:11:42,290 --> 00:11:44,160 S2: the places where we're connected. 192 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,720 S1: Perhaps. Lisa, does that look like doing, for one, what 193 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,040 S1: you wish you could do for everyone? Because I'm thinking about, like, 194 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,679 S1: for instance, my sister, uh, she over many months ran 195 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,400 S1: into the same woman who appeared to be homeless at 196 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,880 S1: her grocery store, and she befriended her. Uh, you know, 197 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,839 S1: invested in her life. They developed this beautiful relationship over 198 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,439 S1: many years. She ultimately passed away a few years ago, 199 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,959 S1: but it was incredible to watch what God did as 200 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,560 S1: she invested in that one individual. Is that a model 201 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:17,920 S1: that I think is akin to what you're describing? 202 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,040 S2: Absolutely. Those are the things that we that we love 203 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,240 S2: to see happening when people inside our spaces make those 204 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,240 S2: relationship connections that that last over time. And I think 205 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,079 S2: sometimes people can be under the impression that they're doing 206 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,480 S2: that when they say, oh, we're going to adopt a family, 207 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,480 S2: you know, for the holidays. Um, but it's a little 208 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,440 S2: different than that, right? It's not just, oh, we're gonna, um, 209 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,230 S2: we're gonna, you know, helicopter in and, um, we're going 210 00:12:43,270 --> 00:12:45,670 S2: to put all of our giving efforts into, you know, 211 00:12:45,710 --> 00:12:49,070 S2: these three children. Um, we still have to be careful 212 00:12:49,070 --> 00:12:52,110 S2: that we're engaging in a healthy way, but definitely, um, 213 00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:55,070 S2: you know, I think, uh, less is more when it 214 00:12:55,070 --> 00:12:58,110 S2: comes to that because the kind of deep relational, um, 215 00:12:58,470 --> 00:13:02,709 S2: investment that is required, um, to come alongside and support 216 00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:04,589 S2: someone in a healthy way, it's not something that we 217 00:13:04,590 --> 00:13:07,270 S2: can scale up to, you know, thousands of people. It 218 00:13:07,270 --> 00:13:09,869 S2: does have to work on this small scale first. 219 00:13:09,910 --> 00:13:13,469 S1: Um, Lisa just 20s left. What's one thing you could 220 00:13:13,470 --> 00:13:16,550 S1: leave with our listeners that they could apply well beyond 221 00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:17,910 S1: even this Christmas season? 222 00:13:18,590 --> 00:13:22,590 S2: Um, just seeing other people as image bearers of God 223 00:13:22,590 --> 00:13:26,030 S2: who have their own gifts and their own agency and 224 00:13:26,030 --> 00:13:31,150 S2: looking to come alongside and help support opportunities for people 225 00:13:31,150 --> 00:13:35,750 S2: to use their own power rather than getting distracted by 226 00:13:35,990 --> 00:13:38,469 S2: the idea of ourselves as the fixers. 227 00:13:38,710 --> 00:13:41,329 S1: That is well said. Well, Lisa, I so appreciate your 228 00:13:41,330 --> 00:13:42,810 S1: time today. Thanks for being here. 229 00:13:43,170 --> 00:13:44,770 S2: Thank you. It's been a pleasure. 230 00:13:45,210 --> 00:13:47,970 S1: When we give in ways that honor, dignity and build 231 00:13:47,970 --> 00:13:51,370 S1: authentic connection and relationships, we don't just meet needs. We 232 00:13:51,370 --> 00:13:55,970 S1: participate in God's work of renewing lives. That's Lisa Sheltra 233 00:13:56,010 --> 00:13:59,449 S1: you heard from today? She's director of community engagement at 234 00:13:59,450 --> 00:14:01,890 S1: Salt and Light. You can learn more at Salt and 235 00:14:01,890 --> 00:14:08,010 S1: Light Ministry. That's salt and light ministry. Your calls are next. 236 00:14:08,010 --> 00:14:14,610 S1: 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. And if you 237 00:14:14,610 --> 00:14:17,090 S1: prefer not to call, keep in mind you can always 238 00:14:17,090 --> 00:14:21,210 S1: send us an email at ask Rob at com. We'll 239 00:14:21,210 --> 00:14:34,690 S1: be right back. So thankful to have you with us 240 00:14:34,690 --> 00:14:38,130 S1: today on Faith and finance. Live a couple of quick reminders. One, 241 00:14:38,130 --> 00:14:40,760 S1: we're not here. Our team is away from the studio today, 242 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,600 S1: so don't call in, but you'll enjoy some great questions. 243 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,280 S1: We lined up in advance. Second, the advice that I 244 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,160 S1: give is general in nature, so you're always going to 245 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,680 S1: want to seek professional, financial, and other advice related to 246 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,040 S1: your specific situation. All right. Back to the phones. We go. 247 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,440 S1: Let's go to Georgia. Hi, Clarence. How can I help? 248 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,320 S3: Listen, my friend, I talked with you last year as 249 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,560 S3: I was approaching my full retirement age. Alright. And, uh, 250 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:10,160 S3: I elected to, to start drawing my Social Security. And 251 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,200 S3: my question back then was, if I continue to work 252 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,680 S3: full time and I continue to have better years than 253 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:25,320 S3: 35 of the best years, would my pension continue to rise? 254 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,240 S3: And you said yes. Uh, what we didn't talk about, 255 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,800 S3: does that do that automatically, or do I have to 256 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,920 S3: contact Social Security and request it or. 257 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,830 S1: Uh, no, it would happen automatically. There's nothing you need 258 00:15:39,830 --> 00:15:43,710 S1: to do in order to get that updated. Um, so 259 00:15:43,750 --> 00:15:48,550 S1: each year, based on your earnings reported through your W-2, uh, 260 00:15:48,550 --> 00:15:53,670 S1: your Social Security benefit will be automatically calculated on your 261 00:15:53,670 --> 00:15:58,350 S1: highest 35 years of earnings if you have fewer than 35. 262 00:15:58,390 --> 00:16:01,070 S1: Those zeros are averaged in to make up the difference. 263 00:16:01,070 --> 00:16:05,390 S1: But each year, the IRS sends your earnings data from 264 00:16:05,390 --> 00:16:10,910 S1: your W-2 or self-employment tax filings to the Social Security Administration. 265 00:16:11,070 --> 00:16:14,870 S1: They add your most recent earnings to your earnings record, 266 00:16:14,990 --> 00:16:18,190 S1: and that automatically determines if they replace one of your 267 00:16:18,190 --> 00:16:23,390 S1: previous highest earning years, uh, of your 35. If your 268 00:16:23,390 --> 00:16:27,510 S1: new earnings are higher than the lowest year currently in 269 00:16:27,510 --> 00:16:32,630 S1: your high 35, then SSA automatically updates your record and 270 00:16:32,630 --> 00:16:34,190 S1: that increases your benefit. 271 00:16:34,430 --> 00:16:36,650 S3: All right, my friend, I appreciate it. 272 00:16:36,650 --> 00:16:41,490 S1: Absolutely, Clarence. Well, thank you, sir. Lord bless you. Call anytime. Uh, 273 00:16:41,490 --> 00:16:44,650 S1: we'll go down to, uh, Oklahoma. Paula, how can I help? 274 00:16:45,330 --> 00:16:47,410 S4: Hey, Rob, it's me again. 275 00:16:48,490 --> 00:16:50,850 S5: I'm so glad you're on today. How can I help you? 276 00:16:52,050 --> 00:16:56,210 S4: Yeah, I was listening yesterday, and I know that I 277 00:16:56,250 --> 00:16:59,370 S4: heard the. I can't remember his name. He said something 278 00:16:59,370 --> 00:17:02,970 S4: that you're. I have a Roth IRA, which I had 279 00:17:02,970 --> 00:17:05,449 S4: that when I was working and I put into it 280 00:17:05,450 --> 00:17:08,850 S4: and I just left it. But now, um, since I 281 00:17:08,890 --> 00:17:11,690 S4: and I haven't been working for about five years, and 282 00:17:11,690 --> 00:17:16,370 S4: I just recently opened up a, uh, traditional IRA and 283 00:17:16,369 --> 00:17:19,170 S4: put about 11,000 in it, and none of it is 284 00:17:19,170 --> 00:17:22,609 S4: earned income, I don't work. So what is going to happen? 285 00:17:22,650 --> 00:17:25,170 S4: Do I need do I need to tell my CPA 286 00:17:25,170 --> 00:17:26,330 S4: or how does that work? 287 00:17:26,369 --> 00:17:28,369 S1: You do because you're going to want to get that 288 00:17:28,369 --> 00:17:30,489 S1: out of there, and you're going to want to work 289 00:17:30,490 --> 00:17:32,970 S1: through your CPA to do it. Because, yeah, you can 290 00:17:32,970 --> 00:17:37,520 S1: only fund an IRA with earned income. So any unearned 291 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,400 S1: income put into your IRA is going to be penalized. 292 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,200 S1: I believe it's 6% for each year. It remains in 293 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,719 S1: the account. And so that's going to that penalty is 294 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,280 S1: going to build over time. And so yeah you'll just 295 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,040 S1: want to give your CPA a call and say listen 296 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,160 S1: I put some money in an IRA and I understand 297 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,720 S1: I shouldn't have. And I need you to tell me, 298 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,640 S1: you know, how to go about getting that out and 299 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,600 S1: then accounting for that, you know, in your filing if necessary. 300 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,600 S4: So do I sell all the stocks? Just sell everything. 301 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,760 S4: Then put it, you know, and keep it and hold 302 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,240 S4: until I go meet with her. 303 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,160 S1: Yeah, I would probably check with your CPA on how 304 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,679 S1: she wants you to go about that. Uh, you are 305 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:18,960 S1: going to need to, you know, take it out as cash. 306 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,640 S1: And so the investments will need to be sold. How much? 307 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,840 S1: When did you say you put that money in? This year. 308 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,600 S4: Oh, yeah. Yeah, well, it was last year. Some. Okay. Yeah. 309 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,280 S1: Yeah, yeah. So the combination of maybe a couple of 310 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,550 S1: different Contributions, but all of it was unearned. Is that right? 311 00:18:37,590 --> 00:18:38,510 S4: Exactly. 312 00:18:38,550 --> 00:18:39,109 S1: Yeah. 313 00:18:39,150 --> 00:18:41,590 S4: So you can't put you can't put any money in 314 00:18:41,590 --> 00:18:44,750 S4: an account unless you're working. Right. You can't have any 315 00:18:44,750 --> 00:18:46,629 S4: stocks and stuff unless you're working. 316 00:18:47,030 --> 00:18:51,230 S1: Well, right. So for an IRA or a retirement account. 317 00:18:51,230 --> 00:18:54,310 S1: But in this case we're talking about an IRA. Yes. 318 00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:57,550 S1: You can only fund an IRA with earned income. And 319 00:18:57,550 --> 00:19:01,750 S1: so that's money you receive as a result of work. Uh, or, 320 00:19:02,190 --> 00:19:08,070 S1: you know, self-employment income essentially. So wages and salaries, self-employment income, 321 00:19:08,270 --> 00:19:12,630 S1: you know, taxable long term disability benefits but not Social 322 00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:19,750 S1: security benefits. Pensions, annuities, investment income that is considered unearned income. 323 00:19:20,270 --> 00:19:24,350 S4: Okay. So you're saying Social Security disability. How could use or. 324 00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:28,990 S1: No no it would be only long term disability benefits. 325 00:19:29,030 --> 00:19:34,450 S1: Um so disability payments prior to reaching retirement age if 326 00:19:34,450 --> 00:19:39,169 S1: they're paid as a substitute for your wages. Uh, not, uh, 327 00:19:39,210 --> 00:19:41,050 S1: Social Security disability. 328 00:19:41,170 --> 00:19:46,370 S4: Okay. So basically, a person just will invest in CDs 329 00:19:46,410 --> 00:19:49,690 S4: or something like that and pay your house off early, 330 00:19:49,730 --> 00:19:52,010 S4: which is what I'm doing, what you told me to do. 331 00:19:52,330 --> 00:19:53,210 S1: So. Yes, ma'am. 332 00:19:53,770 --> 00:19:55,010 S4: What? Okay. 333 00:19:55,050 --> 00:19:57,449 S1: Yeah. So you've got a couple of options when you 334 00:19:57,450 --> 00:20:00,129 S1: get to this season with unearned income in terms of 335 00:20:00,170 --> 00:20:02,490 S1: getting it invested. Yeah. You can invest in a taxable 336 00:20:02,490 --> 00:20:05,250 S1: account where, you know, you'd still could put it in 337 00:20:05,250 --> 00:20:07,649 S1: stocks and bonds and mutual funds. You're just going to 338 00:20:07,650 --> 00:20:12,129 S1: pay capital gains as you sell investments. A second option 339 00:20:12,130 --> 00:20:13,890 S1: would be, you know, just what you said you could 340 00:20:13,890 --> 00:20:17,250 S1: reduce debt, which will ultimately give you a guaranteed return 341 00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:20,450 S1: equal to that interest rate. You're no longer paying, and 342 00:20:20,450 --> 00:20:23,450 S1: once you pay it off in full, lowers your overall 343 00:20:23,450 --> 00:20:27,450 S1: lifestyle spending. So your your monthly budget goes down, because 344 00:20:27,490 --> 00:20:31,080 S1: for most people, that's their biggest expense. And now that's gone. 345 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:36,200 S1: Another option would be investing through an insurance policy. So 346 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,800 S1: they're not my favorite, especially while you're, you know, in 347 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,440 S1: your working years and you have access to a retirement plan. 348 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,239 S1: But when you get to this season, one of the 349 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,200 S1: ways to get a, you know, tax deferred growth is 350 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,720 S1: through something like an annuity or whole life insurance policy. 351 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,000 S1: That could be another option. Um, but those are pretty 352 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,680 S1: much it, because to your point, if you're not working, 353 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,840 S1: you can't do a 401 K because you have no 354 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,480 S1: salary to defer and you can't contribute to the IRAs 355 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:04,600 S1: without earned income. 356 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,879 S4: Okay. Thank you so much. Have a blessed day. 357 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:09,560 S1: All right. You too Paula. 358 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,120 S4: Thank you. I love your program. 359 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,679 S1: Oh. Thank you. That's very kind of you. May the 360 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,159 S1: Lord bless you. Call anytime. Hey, before we head to 361 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,320 S1: this break, just a quick reminder. Our team is away 362 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,919 S1: from the studio today, so don't call in. We did 363 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,399 S1: line up some great questions in advance, and when we 364 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,520 S1: come back from this break, we'll have an opportunity to 365 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,150 S1: hear some of those questions. Let me also remind you 366 00:21:29,150 --> 00:21:31,670 S1: that if you have a question you'd like to get 367 00:21:31,670 --> 00:21:34,030 S1: in front of us and get an answer to. You 368 00:21:34,030 --> 00:21:37,030 S1: can always send it in electronically. That's right. The way 369 00:21:37,030 --> 00:21:40,030 S1: to send an electronic question is just to head to 370 00:21:40,070 --> 00:21:44,790 S1: Moody Radio.com. You'll see the form there on that page 371 00:21:44,790 --> 00:21:47,990 S1: where you can submit your question. We try to get 372 00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:50,389 S1: to a few of those each week on the air. Again, 373 00:21:50,390 --> 00:21:55,990 S1: Moody Radio.com. Back with more on faith and finance. Live 374 00:21:55,990 --> 00:22:03,750 S1: right after this. Stick around. So glad to have you 375 00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:06,790 S1: with us today on Faith and Finance Live. Our team 376 00:22:06,790 --> 00:22:09,750 S1: is away today so don't call in. But we lined 377 00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:11,950 S1: up some great questions in advance and we'll be going 378 00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:14,350 S1: to those here in just a moment. Let me also 379 00:22:14,350 --> 00:22:16,870 S1: remind you that the advice that I give each day 380 00:22:16,869 --> 00:22:21,629 S1: on this program is general in nature. We offer principles 381 00:22:21,630 --> 00:22:24,510 S1: and ideas that apply at a high level. They are 382 00:22:24,510 --> 00:22:28,770 S1: not personalized, so that's why you should always seek professional 383 00:22:28,770 --> 00:22:31,850 S1: financial advice. And if you'd like to find a professional 384 00:22:31,890 --> 00:22:34,730 S1: who shares your values, we of course, here at Faith 385 00:22:34,730 --> 00:22:38,890 S1: and Finance Live, recommend the Certified Kingdom Advisor designation. These 386 00:22:38,890 --> 00:22:41,530 S1: are men and women who've met high standards, and they've 387 00:22:41,530 --> 00:22:45,050 S1: been trained to bring a biblical worldview of financial decision making. 388 00:22:45,050 --> 00:22:47,730 S1: You can find one at Faith comm. Now let's head 389 00:22:47,730 --> 00:22:50,130 S1: back to the phone calls we have lined up. Let's 390 00:22:50,130 --> 00:22:52,410 S1: go to Alabama. Hi, Louis. How can I help? 391 00:22:52,450 --> 00:22:56,490 S6: I'm on disability. I've been on full, full disability for 392 00:22:56,490 --> 00:22:59,810 S6: a while. I did have a little savings, but it 393 00:22:59,810 --> 00:23:03,889 S6: all went away in the last four years. Uh, I've 394 00:23:03,890 --> 00:23:07,650 S6: heard I could work for, like, six months, and then 395 00:23:07,850 --> 00:23:10,890 S6: I would have to either quit or tell them that 396 00:23:10,890 --> 00:23:13,850 S6: I've done it. Would you recommend that? Or do you 397 00:23:13,890 --> 00:23:16,090 S6: know if I even can do that? 398 00:23:16,690 --> 00:23:20,290 S1: Yeah. You can. So you're getting SSDI. Is that what 399 00:23:20,290 --> 00:23:22,129 S1: it is? Social security disability? 400 00:23:22,970 --> 00:23:23,690 S6: Yes, sir. 401 00:23:23,850 --> 00:23:28,200 S1: Okay. Yeah. You can work part time while receiving SSDI, 402 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,119 S1: but the rules are pretty strict. So the SSA sets 403 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:36,960 S1: limits for what they call substantial gainful activity to determine 404 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,960 S1: whether you can continue receiving benefits. And if you exceed 405 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:46,280 S1: the amounts they've established for substantial gainful activity, your benefits 406 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,440 S1: would then be in jeopardy. Um, and it depends on 407 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,159 S1: your condition. Um, so I believe and you'd want to 408 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,119 S1: call SSA just to confirm this with your specific situation. 409 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,680 S1: I believe if you're, uh, if you're blind, the monthly 410 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,960 S1: limit is 2700. I think if you, you know, for 411 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:10,160 S1: non-blind individuals on SSDI, the limits around 1600. Um, I'd recommend, 412 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,040 S1: though in this case, Lewis, you set an appointment with 413 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,760 S1: your local SSA office and just kind of go in 414 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,960 S1: and talk through your specifics. 415 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,520 S6: Yes, I know I can't work full time. I know 416 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,600 S6: I cannot do that, but I've got to do something 417 00:24:24,700 --> 00:24:27,820 S6: because I'm thinking pretty quick and I don't know what 418 00:24:27,820 --> 00:24:28,820 S6: else to do. 419 00:24:28,980 --> 00:24:31,179 S1: Yes, sir. Yeah. And I think that would be the 420 00:24:31,180 --> 00:24:33,980 S1: key is finding out. Okay. Based on my situation, here's 421 00:24:33,980 --> 00:24:36,340 S1: the limit. And at least you'd know you could earn 422 00:24:36,340 --> 00:24:40,060 S1: up to that without, uh, you know, putting that SSDI 423 00:24:40,060 --> 00:24:42,540 S1: in jeopardy. Um, and so I think that's a pretty 424 00:24:42,540 --> 00:24:46,020 S1: important conversation. And obviously, anything you can do to cut back, 425 00:24:46,060 --> 00:24:49,220 S1: do you feel like you've exhausted all opportunities just to 426 00:24:49,220 --> 00:24:50,300 S1: trim your budget? 427 00:24:51,260 --> 00:24:55,899 S6: Oh. Yes, sir. Uh, okay. I've had to use, uh, 428 00:24:55,940 --> 00:24:59,100 S6: you know, things got a little more expensive, and, and 429 00:24:59,140 --> 00:25:02,260 S6: it's taken all my savings of what I've had. 430 00:25:02,660 --> 00:25:06,139 S1: Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, I'm sorry to hear that, Louis, 431 00:25:06,140 --> 00:25:09,060 S1: but I think this is a great next step. Um, 432 00:25:09,060 --> 00:25:11,100 S1: you know, if you have the ability to work and 433 00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:14,060 S1: you can work up to that limit, hopefully that'll help you, uh, 434 00:25:14,060 --> 00:25:16,100 S1: you know, round out the, uh, the edges of that 435 00:25:16,100 --> 00:25:19,139 S1: budget and keep you in positive territory each month. If 436 00:25:19,140 --> 00:25:21,739 S1: we can help in any way, don't hesitate to reach out. 437 00:25:21,740 --> 00:25:23,889 S1: I'd be happy to connect you with a Certified Christian 438 00:25:23,890 --> 00:25:26,850 S1: Financial counselor who can help you review your budget. But 439 00:25:26,850 --> 00:25:29,370 S1: if you feel like you know it's really not about 440 00:25:29,369 --> 00:25:32,970 S1: trimming expenses or managing it more effectively, and it's really 441 00:25:32,970 --> 00:25:35,770 S1: just about getting your income up, then, you know, the 442 00:25:35,770 --> 00:25:37,970 S1: best thing is probably to reach out to SSA. 443 00:25:38,530 --> 00:25:43,690 S6: Yes, sir. It's just that, uh, I, I, I'm, I, 444 00:25:43,850 --> 00:25:48,370 S6: I've already trimmed everything I, I could trim and I'm, 445 00:25:48,530 --> 00:25:51,730 S6: I'm just like I said, it's like I can't gain 446 00:25:51,730 --> 00:25:56,649 S6: or or anything. Yeah. So it wouldn't help me at all. Uh, 447 00:25:57,090 --> 00:25:59,650 S6: and like I said, I'd like to try to work. 448 00:25:59,650 --> 00:26:02,129 S6: I don't know if I can or not, but I 449 00:26:02,170 --> 00:26:05,010 S6: gotta do something. You know, I can't just sit by 450 00:26:05,010 --> 00:26:06,730 S6: and just let this happen. 451 00:26:06,850 --> 00:26:09,450 S1: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I think that's exactly right. And 452 00:26:09,450 --> 00:26:11,450 S1: so I'm. I'm glad you're thinking this way. I think 453 00:26:11,450 --> 00:26:14,090 S1: that's your next step is to make that appointment. And, uh, 454 00:26:14,090 --> 00:26:15,850 S1: don't hesitate to call back along the way if we 455 00:26:15,850 --> 00:26:18,010 S1: can help, sir. May the Lord bless you. Uh, let's 456 00:26:18,010 --> 00:26:20,369 S1: go to, uh, Tennessee. Jack. How can I help, sir? 457 00:26:20,650 --> 00:26:23,560 S7: Hey, Rob. Thanks for taking my call and I really 458 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,679 S7: appreciate everything that you do each day. So thanks so much. Um, 459 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,600 S7: so I'll be turning 62 in about another month or so, 460 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,639 S7: and for some health reasons, I kind of need to 461 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:40,000 S7: step back from working full time to address some things. And, um, 462 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,600 S7: I have a young child who's ten years old still 463 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,600 S7: and a wife who's 52, and my wife doesn't work. 464 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,960 S7: She's a full time parent. And, uh, so but a 465 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,080 S7: friend of mine had told me that I could start 466 00:26:55,080 --> 00:27:00,480 S7: to take, um, Social Security at age 62 and that 467 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,640 S7: both my wife and daughter would be eligible because of 468 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,000 S7: her being a full time parent and my daughter being 469 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:13,000 S7: still a youngster. Is that true? Or that just seemed 470 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,640 S7: a little too good to be true, and I couldn't 471 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,520 S7: find out anything on the Social Security website to kind 472 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:18,840 S7: of help answer that question. 473 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,939 S1: Yeah. Uh, so a couple of thoughts there. I mean, 474 00:27:21,980 --> 00:27:24,379 S1: so if you take your benefits early, they're going to 475 00:27:24,380 --> 00:27:28,260 S1: be reduced from your full retirement age benefit. You know, 476 00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:30,179 S1: if you took it right at 62, I mean, it 477 00:27:30,180 --> 00:27:34,300 S1: could be as much as 30% that you're having reduced 478 00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:39,460 S1: it reduced by. And then she's eligible as a spouse. Um, 479 00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:43,100 S1: once you begin taking your benefits and she can't take 480 00:27:43,100 --> 00:27:47,060 S1: her spousal benefits until you take yours first. But she's 481 00:27:47,100 --> 00:27:51,740 S1: can get up to 50% of your full retirement age 482 00:27:51,740 --> 00:27:55,540 S1: benefit so long as she waits until full retirement age. 483 00:27:55,780 --> 00:27:58,420 S1: So she's got to wait until full retirement age, which 484 00:27:58,420 --> 00:28:02,700 S1: is probably 67, for her. In order to be eligible 485 00:28:02,900 --> 00:28:07,100 S1: for 50% of your full retirement age benefit. Now, she 486 00:28:07,100 --> 00:28:10,340 S1: does not get penalized if you take it early, she'd 487 00:28:10,340 --> 00:28:13,820 S1: still be eligible for up to 50% of your full 488 00:28:13,820 --> 00:28:17,460 S1: retirement age benefit. But that assumes that she waits until 489 00:28:17,460 --> 00:28:21,170 S1: her full retirement age because if she takes it early, 490 00:28:21,170 --> 00:28:24,889 S1: then she's going to be penalized starting at 50%, being 491 00:28:24,890 --> 00:28:27,850 S1: the max and then coming down from there. Does that 492 00:28:27,850 --> 00:28:28,530 S1: make sense? 493 00:28:29,330 --> 00:28:31,210 S7: It does. Yeah. Yeah. 494 00:28:31,250 --> 00:28:34,209 S1: Okay. So I think the key would be and for 495 00:28:34,210 --> 00:28:37,290 S1: most people, if you can wait because you're continuing to 496 00:28:37,290 --> 00:28:40,250 S1: work and you know, you're balancing the budget other ways, 497 00:28:40,450 --> 00:28:42,530 S1: I would just because you want to let that check 498 00:28:42,530 --> 00:28:45,130 S1: continue to grow, but you've got to walk through your 499 00:28:45,130 --> 00:28:47,330 S1: door first. So you in order for her to take 500 00:28:47,330 --> 00:28:50,210 S1: the spousal benefit, you've got to take yours. And the 501 00:28:50,210 --> 00:28:53,570 S1: key to determine what number each of you will receive 502 00:28:53,810 --> 00:28:56,290 S1: is whether you know you have gotten to that full 503 00:28:56,290 --> 00:28:59,010 S1: retirement age benefit. If you haven't, uh, you know it's 504 00:28:59,010 --> 00:29:02,170 S1: going to be reduced from there. Yours could grow past 505 00:29:02,170 --> 00:29:05,730 S1: full retirement age. Hers caps out so she can never 506 00:29:05,770 --> 00:29:09,730 S1: earn more than 50% of your initial full retirement age benefit. 507 00:29:10,010 --> 00:29:14,690 S7: Okay. And if I start to take Social Security at 62, 508 00:29:14,930 --> 00:29:20,840 S7: what's the threshold that I can earn um, beyond, I guess, uh, 509 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,880 S7: above which I would start to pay a penalty, but, um, 510 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,040 S7: below which I would not be penalized. 511 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,520 S1: Yeah. Uh, so you would take it before full retirement age. 512 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,440 S1: You're talking about taking it, uh, at 62? 513 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,880 S7: Yes. But if I wanted to work still part time 514 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:37,560 S7: a bit. 515 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,560 S1: Yeah. So there there is a penalty that's imposed there 516 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,480 S1: if you're taking your benefits before full retirement age that that, uh, 517 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:50,240 S1: earnings limit for 2025, um, I believe is, uh, it's, 518 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:55,200 S1: it's around 22,000. It may have gone up to 23,000, uh, 519 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,840 S1: that you can earn without affecting your benefits. Uh, for 520 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,440 S1: every $2 you earn above that limit, Social Security will hold, 521 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,160 S1: withhold a dollar of that. And then in the year 522 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,680 S1: you turn full retirement age, it jumps up, uh, to 523 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,960 S1: nearly 60,000 that you can earn. But every year prior 524 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,140 S1: to that year in which you reach full retirement age. Uh, 525 00:30:18,300 --> 00:30:22,020 S1: then that limit is much lower at around that 23,000 number. 526 00:30:22,020 --> 00:30:24,020 S1: I don't have the exact number in front of me. Now, 527 00:30:24,140 --> 00:30:28,020 S1: I will say you do eventually get everything that's withheld 528 00:30:28,020 --> 00:30:32,180 S1: from you back after full retirement age in the form 529 00:30:32,180 --> 00:30:35,180 S1: of a higher check over a number of years. I 530 00:30:35,180 --> 00:30:39,300 S1: think it's ten or more until you're fully repaid, but 531 00:30:39,300 --> 00:30:43,100 S1: during those years, up until full retirement age, you will 532 00:30:43,100 --> 00:30:45,700 S1: have that lower benefit check. Does that make sense? 533 00:30:46,260 --> 00:30:48,180 S7: It does. Thanks, Rob I appreciate it. 534 00:30:48,500 --> 00:30:51,420 S1: Absolutely. Lord bless you, my friend. Thanks for calling today. 535 00:30:51,540 --> 00:30:54,140 S1: Much more to come. Just around the corner. Stick around. 536 00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:05,660 S8: This is our final segment of a Faith and finance 537 00:31:05,660 --> 00:31:09,020 S8: live program that we previously recorded. Thanks so much for 538 00:31:09,020 --> 00:31:11,219 S8: being with us today, and we hope you'll stick around 539 00:31:11,220 --> 00:31:13,380 S8: and enjoy the rest of the program. 540 00:31:14,410 --> 00:31:16,770 S1: Here in our last segment. Let's get to as many 541 00:31:16,770 --> 00:31:20,170 S1: calls as we can. Uh, Pennsylvania is where we're going next. Hi, Lisa. 542 00:31:20,170 --> 00:31:26,690 S1: How can I help? Lisa, are you with us? All right. 543 00:31:26,690 --> 00:31:29,490 S1: Let's see if we can get Lisa on the line 544 00:31:29,650 --> 00:31:32,770 S1: and we'll go back to her. She had some thoughts 545 00:31:32,770 --> 00:31:37,650 S1: for Louis, one of our previous callers. Uh, who's on SSDI, 546 00:31:37,690 --> 00:31:41,650 S1: Social Security disability. He's wondering about being able to add 547 00:31:41,650 --> 00:31:45,010 S1: some income because he's struggling to make ends meet, and 548 00:31:45,010 --> 00:31:47,170 S1: he's going to try to work right up to the limit. 549 00:31:47,170 --> 00:31:51,770 S1: And I encouraged him to go to the Social Security Administration. Uh, 550 00:31:51,770 --> 00:31:55,930 S1: I believe Lisa wanted to share about two things specifically 551 00:31:55,930 --> 00:31:59,090 S1: for somebody in that situation. So, Louis, hopefully you're listening here. 552 00:31:59,090 --> 00:32:01,090 S1: I see the note here on what you wanted to share. 553 00:32:01,090 --> 00:32:03,490 S1: And and I agree, uh, she wanted you to know 554 00:32:03,490 --> 00:32:07,610 S1: about something called Wtpa, which is, uh, wipa. That stands 555 00:32:07,610 --> 00:32:11,770 S1: for work incentives, Planning and Assistance. This is a program 556 00:32:11,930 --> 00:32:15,800 S1: Louis and others funded by the Social Security Administration, and 557 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,640 S1: they provide benefits counseling to people with disabilities who are 558 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,920 S1: receiving SSI or SSDI and are considering work. So I 559 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,680 S1: think this is a great suggestion. Perhaps if you just 560 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:32,000 S1: do an internet search for wipa work incentives, planning and 561 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,160 S1: assistance and see if you can reach out to them 562 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,760 S1: and they can help you understand what your options are, 563 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,200 S1: make some informed decisions. Give you personalized guidance on how 564 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,440 S1: earned income impacts your financial situation, and then support you 565 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,800 S1: as you explore or pursue work. While you remain informed 566 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:55,320 S1: about how that earning those earnings may affect your benefits. 567 00:32:55,320 --> 00:33:01,640 S1: So wipa, uh, work incentives, planning and assistance. Louis, uh, 568 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,200 S1: check that out. Lisa, thanks for sharing that great idea 569 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,080 S1: with us. Uh, to Virginia. Hi, Stuart. Go ahead. Sir. 570 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,280 S9: Yes. Um, what I want to know, I heard you 571 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:16,140 S9: talking to a woman earlier. Um, about IRA and like, 572 00:33:16,540 --> 00:33:19,739 S9: they're going to take like, 6% of, you know, the 573 00:33:19,740 --> 00:33:24,860 S9: money or whatever she's got in there for taxes. What happened? 574 00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:28,100 S9: I was in a car accident, and I put some 575 00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:31,820 S9: money in an IRA, and my lawyer said that I 576 00:33:31,820 --> 00:33:37,060 S9: wouldn't have to pay taxes on the money that I got. Um, now. Well, 577 00:33:37,060 --> 00:33:40,380 S9: I had to pay that. It's an IRA. Or should 578 00:33:40,380 --> 00:33:41,860 S9: I put it in something else? 579 00:33:42,380 --> 00:33:45,260 S1: Yeah. Uh, do you have earned income or did you, 580 00:33:45,260 --> 00:33:47,620 S1: in the year that you made the contribution? 581 00:33:48,020 --> 00:33:50,180 S9: Yes. I'm. I'm still working now. 582 00:33:50,420 --> 00:33:53,780 S1: Okay, great. And did you put in more than the limit? Uh, 583 00:33:53,780 --> 00:33:57,100 S1: if you were over 50, the limit was probably $8,000. 584 00:33:57,340 --> 00:34:03,220 S9: Um, well, I what I did, I put, uh, 52,000 585 00:34:03,220 --> 00:34:04,820 S9: is what I got. That's what I put in there. 586 00:34:04,820 --> 00:34:07,460 S9: But I took like 20 some thousand out to buy 587 00:34:07,460 --> 00:34:10,690 S9: a new car. And so it was like, I got 588 00:34:10,690 --> 00:34:16,049 S9: like $32,000 in there, but I'm. I'm 67. 589 00:34:16,410 --> 00:34:19,410 S1: Yeah. Uh, did you put that all in at one time, though, 590 00:34:19,410 --> 00:34:20,650 S1: in one tax year? 591 00:34:21,010 --> 00:34:22,930 S9: Uh, I think so, yes. 592 00:34:22,969 --> 00:34:26,009 S1: Okay. Yeah. So that would be something you need to 593 00:34:26,010 --> 00:34:30,090 S1: address because essentially the so for instance, for this year 594 00:34:30,210 --> 00:34:33,650 S1: the the max you can contribute in any one tax 595 00:34:33,690 --> 00:34:39,450 S1: year is $7,000. 8000. Uh, if you are over the 596 00:34:39,450 --> 00:34:42,810 S1: age of 50. So that would be the total possible amount. 597 00:34:42,810 --> 00:34:45,530 S1: So if you put in more than that, that's considered 598 00:34:45,530 --> 00:34:51,410 S1: an excess contribution. And the IRS imposes penalties and requires 599 00:34:51,410 --> 00:34:55,970 S1: corrective action. So the penalty is a 6% penalty each 600 00:34:55,969 --> 00:35:01,570 S1: year on the excess contribution until it's corrected. And um, 601 00:35:01,570 --> 00:35:04,570 S1: and so that, you know, that's going to add up quickly. So, 602 00:35:04,610 --> 00:35:07,690 S1: you know, if you, if you put in, uh, you know, 603 00:35:08,170 --> 00:35:12,080 S1: you put in $1,000 more, that'd be $60, you know, penalty. 604 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,080 S1: And that's going to grow every year. So you're going 605 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:21,040 S1: to want to withdraw that excess contribution. Um, prior to, 606 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,080 S1: you know, the tax filing deadline, if possible, and then 607 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,760 S1: let your CPA know to determine whether there's any penalty 608 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:27,440 S1: that you owe. 609 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,399 S9: Okay. Now, since I put the money in from the accident, 610 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,560 S9: I haven't put anything else in it. All I put 611 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,720 S9: in was what I got from the accident. 612 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,000 S1: Yeah, the challenge is, in any given year, regardless of 613 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,480 S1: where the money comes from, an accident, your work, uh, 614 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,480 S1: an inheritance. In any one year, you can only put 615 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:52,080 S1: in up to the maximum contribution limit for that year. Uh, 616 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:57,640 S1: which for, you know, 2025 is is $7,000, uh, you know, 617 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:02,400 S1: for 2024, um, you know, I believe it was the same. Um, 618 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,640 S1: and so if you put in any more, uh, in 619 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,180 S1: one year, uh, than than the limit, then that's an 620 00:36:09,180 --> 00:36:10,460 S1: excess contribution. 621 00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:14,020 S9: Okay. So I get with my financial advisor and see 622 00:36:14,020 --> 00:36:16,780 S9: what see what the deal is and take take some out. 623 00:36:16,820 --> 00:36:18,940 S1: Exactly. Yeah. And so you just want to know you 624 00:36:19,060 --> 00:36:20,859 S1: want to contact your advisor and say, hey, I think 625 00:36:20,860 --> 00:36:25,540 S1: I made an excess contribution to an IRA above the limit. 626 00:36:25,540 --> 00:36:27,020 S1: And I just want you to help me make sure 627 00:36:27,020 --> 00:36:28,899 S1: I get it out. And then and then you want 628 00:36:28,900 --> 00:36:31,620 S1: to let your CPA know so that they can determine 629 00:36:31,620 --> 00:36:33,620 S1: whether there's any penalty that needs to be paid or 630 00:36:33,620 --> 00:36:36,339 S1: whether you your corrective action is sufficient. 631 00:36:36,660 --> 00:36:38,500 S9: All right, I appreciate it. 632 00:36:38,540 --> 00:36:42,780 S1: Absolutely. Thanks, Stuart. God bless you, sir. Let's go to Kansas. Hi, Carol. 633 00:36:42,780 --> 00:36:43,340 S1: Go ahead. 634 00:36:43,580 --> 00:36:45,380 S10: Thank you for taking my call. 635 00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:45,940 S1: Sure. 636 00:36:45,980 --> 00:36:52,220 S10: I read recently about what they called, I think, a 637 00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:59,460 S10: backdoor IRA contribution. Yes, for high income earners. That right 638 00:36:59,660 --> 00:37:04,700 S10: as a way to contribute to the Roth IRA. Can 639 00:37:04,700 --> 00:37:06,090 S10: you explain that to me. 640 00:37:06,450 --> 00:37:10,850 S1: Yes, I sure can. Um, so the the IRS sets 641 00:37:10,850 --> 00:37:14,649 S1: income limits for contributing to a Roth IRA. So if 642 00:37:14,650 --> 00:37:20,330 S1: your income is too high, you are not eligible to contribute. Uh, 643 00:37:20,330 --> 00:37:24,370 S1: so a backdoor Roth is a workaround that allows you 644 00:37:24,370 --> 00:37:27,970 S1: to indirectly fund a Roth IRA regardless of your income. 645 00:37:27,969 --> 00:37:30,930 S1: And here's how it works. You. Anyone can contribute to 646 00:37:30,930 --> 00:37:35,730 S1: a traditional IRA, no matter how much they earn. Uh, 647 00:37:35,890 --> 00:37:38,810 S1: you know, up to the limit. Um, but it would 648 00:37:38,810 --> 00:37:44,010 S1: be a non, uh, so you don't take the deduction, uh, 649 00:37:44,410 --> 00:37:49,410 S1: for this contribution, you make a nondeductible contribution because of 650 00:37:49,410 --> 00:37:53,130 S1: your high income, and then you convert that once the 651 00:37:53,130 --> 00:37:56,890 S1: funds are in the traditional IRA to a Roth IRA. 652 00:37:57,370 --> 00:38:00,290 S1: And since you already paid the taxes on the original 653 00:38:00,290 --> 00:38:04,680 S1: contribution because it was a nondeductible contribution, then the the 654 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,479 S1: tax owed on the conversion is minimal because it's only 655 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:12,200 S1: on made on the gains that you made before the conversion. 656 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,040 S1: And then once you've converted it, the money is now 657 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,960 S1: in a Roth IRA and it's growing tax free. So 658 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,719 S1: this is a legal way to get money just based 659 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,640 S1: on the current IRS tax code, is a legal way 660 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,839 S1: to get money into a Roth by way of this 661 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:34,839 S1: non-deductible traditional IRA contribution that's then converted so that you 662 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,719 S1: have the opportunity for that money to grow from that 663 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:42,799 S1: point forward inside the Roth tax free, and no longer 664 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,680 S1: be subject to a required minimum distributions. Once you reach 665 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:47,720 S1: age 73. 666 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,400 S10: Do you have to wait a certain period of time 667 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:51,960 S10: before the conversion? 668 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:56,680 S1: Uh, yeah. So you're saying after you contribute, uh, to 669 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,239 S1: the traditional IRA. 670 00:38:58,840 --> 00:38:59,640 S10: Right? 671 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:04,259 S1: Yeah. Uh, so after you make that contribution. There is 672 00:39:04,260 --> 00:39:08,900 S1: no official waiting period required by the IRS. And so, 673 00:39:09,300 --> 00:39:12,299 S1: you know, you would have to, uh, you know, get 674 00:39:12,300 --> 00:39:15,899 S1: that money in there. Um, and then, you know, you 675 00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:19,540 S1: would decide what tax year you want to make the conversion. And, 676 00:39:19,540 --> 00:39:21,420 S1: and I'd work with your CPA on it just to 677 00:39:21,460 --> 00:39:23,940 S1: make sure that, you know, you're looking at your specific 678 00:39:23,940 --> 00:39:28,500 S1: situation and everything's done properly. But the general idea here is, 679 00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:31,140 S1: as a high income earner, who wants to take advantage 680 00:39:31,140 --> 00:39:33,540 S1: of the Roth, at least while the tax code is 681 00:39:33,540 --> 00:39:36,020 S1: the way it is today, this is a great opportunity 682 00:39:36,020 --> 00:39:36,820 S1: to do that. 683 00:39:37,660 --> 00:39:40,540 S10: So could it be converted like the next day? 684 00:39:41,140 --> 00:39:44,460 S1: It could be pretty quick. I think most advisors, uh, ask, 685 00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:46,899 S1: you know, tell you that it's it's probably, you know, 686 00:39:46,940 --> 00:39:51,219 S1: makes sense even though there's no official rule, uh, you know, 687 00:39:51,260 --> 00:39:55,980 S1: to wait, you know, perhaps at least several days, you know, 688 00:39:56,020 --> 00:39:58,500 S1: may even say a few months just to make sure 689 00:39:58,500 --> 00:40:02,730 S1: everything is done properly. Um, but but essentially, it can 690 00:40:02,730 --> 00:40:03,850 S1: be done very quickly. 691 00:40:04,810 --> 00:40:06,450 S10: Okay. Sounds great. 692 00:40:06,610 --> 00:40:10,009 S1: Okay. Thanks for your call. Absolutely. We appreciate you being 693 00:40:10,010 --> 00:40:12,130 S1: on the program today. Uh, let's see. We're going to 694 00:40:12,130 --> 00:40:15,490 S1: finish up today in West Virginia. Ron. Go ahead. 695 00:40:16,010 --> 00:40:21,089 S11: Yes. Hello. Um, yeah, I was calling about, um, I'm 73, 696 00:40:21,130 --> 00:40:24,650 S11: and my wife and I have been taking our Social security, uh, 697 00:40:24,770 --> 00:40:29,410 S11: for close to ten years now. And when we applied, 698 00:40:29,410 --> 00:40:32,770 S11: we found out that because we have a a son 699 00:40:32,770 --> 00:40:38,689 S11: that's autistic and he's 40, 47 now, but because of that, 700 00:40:38,690 --> 00:40:40,649 S11: we don't my wife would only get half of her 701 00:40:40,650 --> 00:40:46,210 S11: Social Security. Um, but they basically did was took half 702 00:40:46,210 --> 00:40:48,850 S11: of his Medicaid or, you know, what he was getting 703 00:40:49,290 --> 00:40:54,129 S11: due to his, uh, condition. And they took that and 704 00:40:54,130 --> 00:40:57,130 S11: replaced it with half of my wife's Social Security. And 705 00:40:57,690 --> 00:41:01,200 S11: he ended up, you know, pretty much even even Steven. 706 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:06,120 S11: But she's lost half of what she should be getting. 707 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:13,200 S11: I called the Social Security attorney and she had never 708 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,400 S11: heard of any such a thing before. She specializes basically 709 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:21,120 S11: in disability things. Um, so I don't know. I'm guessing 710 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,160 S11: that's the case, but, uh, I'm not really happy with it. 711 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,920 S1: Yeah, yeah. Um, well, yeah, I would check with SSA, 712 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,719 S1: perhaps go down and do an in-person visit. There is 713 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,680 S1: a cap on the total amount of family can receive 714 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,800 S1: based on one worker's record. It's known as the family 715 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,640 S1: maximum benefit. Um, and so that could have an impact 716 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,279 S1: on it. Um, and, you know, there's an impact on 717 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:50,120 S1: survivor's benefits if the parent passes away. Um, and then 718 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,840 S1: if the child works and earns income, that may affect 719 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,040 S1: their eligibility. But maybe what they're getting at here is 720 00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:00,380 S1: this family. Max. Um, so again, I would probably make 721 00:42:00,380 --> 00:42:02,620 S1: that appointment with Social Security, go down and sit with 722 00:42:02,620 --> 00:42:04,980 S1: somebody face to face and kind of work through your 723 00:42:04,980 --> 00:42:09,500 S1: specific record and situation and family Max and benefits records. 724 00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:12,500 S1: So we're not dealing with hypotheticals, and they can actually 725 00:42:12,500 --> 00:42:16,419 S1: give you some good counsel based on your specific situation. Uh, 726 00:42:16,420 --> 00:42:18,660 S1: I appreciate your call today, Ron. Lord bless you, sir. 727 00:42:18,660 --> 00:42:20,940 S1: All the best to you. Well, folks, it's been a 728 00:42:20,940 --> 00:42:23,540 S1: joy to be along with you today. Thanks for inviting 729 00:42:23,540 --> 00:42:26,540 S1: us into your story. What a joy it is to 730 00:42:26,580 --> 00:42:29,379 S1: encourage you with God's Word as you seek to be 731 00:42:29,380 --> 00:42:32,620 S1: that wise and faithful steward. Our goal that you'd see 732 00:42:32,660 --> 00:42:36,060 S1: God as your ultimate treasure. Let me say thanks to 733 00:42:36,100 --> 00:42:39,859 S1: my team today. I couldn't do it without him. Amy, Dan, Gabby, Tee, 734 00:42:39,860 --> 00:42:42,180 S1: and Jim. Faith in Finance Live is a partnership between 735 00:42:42,180 --> 00:42:45,580 S1: Moody Radio and Faith fi. Have a wonderful day and 736 00:42:45,580 --> 00:42:48,140 S1: come back and join us next time for another edition 737 00:42:48,140 --> 00:42:49,700 S1: of Faith and Finance live.