1
00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,639
S1: It's incredible how many people agree that Jesus was a

2
00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,800
S1: great teacher, or a great miracle worker, or a great

3
00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,920
S1: moral example. When you tell them that Jesus said that

4
00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,840
S1: he was God. Boy, the conversation often turns icy. So

5
00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:25,600
S1: did Jesus really make that claim? Spoiler alert yes. The proof?

6
00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,520
S1: It's just ahead. Welcome to the land and the book

7
00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,840
S1: with Doctor Charlie Dyer. We promise that as you listen today,

8
00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:36,240
S1: your faith will be fortified and your love for Jesus magnified.

9
00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,320
S1: But that's an all important question, isn't it, Charlie?

10
00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,360
S2: Oh, it really is, John. Yeah.

11
00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:42,360
S1: Well, as believers, there is a great need for us

12
00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,760
S1: to share the gospel with the Jewish people. In fact,

13
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,000
S1: many of our listeners faithfully pray and partner with ministries

14
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,280
S1: that are doing just that. But what if you could

15
00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,640
S1: personally take part in bringing the gospel to Jewish people?

16
00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,480
S2: Well, our friends at Life in Messiah love the opportunity

17
00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,950
S2: to get believers involved in Jewish ministry. They regularly organize

18
00:01:00,950 --> 00:01:04,390
S2: outreach teams to Brooklyn, to South Florida, and even to

19
00:01:04,430 --> 00:01:08,429
S2: Israel outside times of conflict. These ministry trips will equip

20
00:01:08,430 --> 00:01:11,750
S2: you to understand how to share the gospel with Jewish people.

21
00:01:11,950 --> 00:01:14,670
S2: They'll give you the opportunity to actively share your faith

22
00:01:14,790 --> 00:01:18,030
S2: and provide tools and resources that you can take home

23
00:01:18,030 --> 00:01:20,270
S2: with you. If you want to get hands on training

24
00:01:20,270 --> 00:01:24,310
S2: and practical experience in Jewish evangelism, you can learn more

25
00:01:24,310 --> 00:01:28,110
S2: by visiting Lifeline Messiah org and clicking on the Moody

26
00:01:28,150 --> 00:01:31,030
S2: Radio button there. That's life in Messiah.

27
00:01:32,750 --> 00:01:36,310
S1: Well, this coming Wednesday evening marks the beginning of Yom Kippur,

28
00:01:36,350 --> 00:01:39,789
S1: the holiest day in Judaism and the culmination of the

29
00:01:39,790 --> 00:01:43,070
S1: Ten Days of Awe that began at Rosh Hashanah. I

30
00:01:43,069 --> 00:01:45,710
S1: understand that your devotional today will focus on the ultimate

31
00:01:45,750 --> 00:01:48,630
S1: Yom Kippur still to come. But first, we want to

32
00:01:48,630 --> 00:01:51,309
S1: turn our attention to current events in the region, and

33
00:01:51,310 --> 00:01:55,350
S1: our first stop today takes us to Lebanon. Could peace

34
00:01:55,350 --> 00:01:59,020
S1: between the different religious groups in Lebanon be close at hand.

35
00:01:59,020 --> 00:02:02,620
S1: And how will these decisions impact the relationship between Israel

36
00:02:02,620 --> 00:02:03,460
S1: and Lebanon?

37
00:02:03,820 --> 00:02:06,980
S2: Well, Lebanon's government has backed a plan to bring all

38
00:02:06,980 --> 00:02:11,299
S2: armed groups under state control. This includes Hezbollah and some

39
00:02:11,300 --> 00:02:15,100
S2: of the armed Palestinian groups. The decision came after pressure

40
00:02:15,100 --> 00:02:19,060
S2: from regional and international powers. The real question, though, is

41
00:02:19,060 --> 00:02:22,459
S2: whether the plan can actually be enforced. The current head

42
00:02:22,460 --> 00:02:25,500
S2: of Hezbollah said there would be, quote, no life in

43
00:02:25,500 --> 00:02:29,700
S2: Lebanon if the government tried to seize their weapons by force. However,

44
00:02:29,700 --> 00:02:32,460
S2: he did say the group was open to dialogue. For

45
00:02:32,460 --> 00:02:35,620
S2: its part, Lebanon is holding firm and saying that Hezbollah

46
00:02:35,620 --> 00:02:39,460
S2: will be disarmed south of the Litani River within three months,

47
00:02:39,780 --> 00:02:43,740
S2: Lebanon's president also warned. A visiting senior Iranian official against

48
00:02:43,740 --> 00:02:48,180
S2: interfering in Lebanon's internal affairs. In addition to disarming the

49
00:02:48,180 --> 00:02:51,220
S2: different groups, the agreement also calls for Israel to end

50
00:02:51,260 --> 00:02:54,900
S2: its military operations in Lebanon and to withdraw its troops

51
00:02:54,900 --> 00:02:58,570
S2: from five positions in southern Lebanon. Israel has said it

52
00:02:58,570 --> 00:03:02,250
S2: will continue to respond to violations of the current truce agreement,

53
00:03:02,250 --> 00:03:05,730
S2: and will continue to strike Hezbollah positions in southern Lebanon

54
00:03:05,730 --> 00:03:08,850
S2: that threaten it. The hope is that this threat from

55
00:03:08,850 --> 00:03:11,490
S2: Israel will encourage Hezbollah to fulfill its part of the

56
00:03:11,490 --> 00:03:15,490
S2: commitment and withdraw its forces from southern Lebanon. Hezbollah was

57
00:03:15,490 --> 00:03:18,329
S2: devastated by Israel last year, and they're at their weakest

58
00:03:18,330 --> 00:03:21,250
S2: point in decades. They're still hoping Iran will be able

59
00:03:21,250 --> 00:03:24,169
S2: to resupply them, though the land route through Syria is

60
00:03:24,169 --> 00:03:27,770
S2: no longer available and Israel has blocked resupply by air.

61
00:03:28,050 --> 00:03:31,690
S2: Hezbollah's also hurting economically. Many of their arms were destroyed

62
00:03:31,690 --> 00:03:35,650
S2: by Israel, and about 800 million of their 1.2 billion

63
00:03:35,690 --> 00:03:39,410
S2: annual budget came from Iran. Hezbollah is struggling to find

64
00:03:39,410 --> 00:03:43,050
S2: the funds needed to stockpile new weapons, pay their forces

65
00:03:43,050 --> 00:03:46,330
S2: and support the families of those who were killed during

66
00:03:46,330 --> 00:03:50,890
S2: the fighting. Hopefully, these economic realities will allow Lebanon's government

67
00:03:50,890 --> 00:03:54,810
S2: to pressure Hezbollah into disarming, but only time will tell

68
00:03:54,810 --> 00:03:57,880
S2: if it works. It could help calm the border between

69
00:03:57,880 --> 00:03:59,000
S2: Israel and Lebanon.

70
00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,080
S1: Well, from Lebanon we move east to Syria. Reports suggest

71
00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,000
S1: Syria and Israel are quietly engaged in talks to formalize

72
00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,000
S1: their border. But other reports speak of a growing threat

73
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,440
S1: to Syria by Islamists. Charlie, first of all, I'm I'm

74
00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,000
S1: fuzzy here. I thought there was a border. So what

75
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,040
S1: do we really need to know about what's taking place

76
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:18,839
S1: in Syria?

77
00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,279
S2: Well, Israel moved into the demilitarized zone between their country

78
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,320
S2: and Syria. Israel also took the positions up on Mount

79
00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,800
S2: Hermon that were traditionally part of Syria itself. Now, the

80
00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:33,119
S2: reports of quiet discussions taking place, they are accurate. Unfortunately,

81
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,680
S2: so are those reports of growing Islamic influence and continuing

82
00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,960
S2: attacks on them by Israel. The U.S. has been brokering

83
00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,960
S2: what they're calling meaningful and quiet talks between Israel and Syria.

84
00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,240
S2: The talks have focused on items of mutual interest, including

85
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:51,920
S2: returning to compliance with the 1974 cease fire agreement between

86
00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,860
S2: the two countries so that Israel would pull back and

87
00:04:54,860 --> 00:04:58,780
S2: ending the violence in southern Syria, avoiding future conflicts and

88
00:04:58,779 --> 00:05:02,020
S2: long term possibly even making peace to allow Syria to

89
00:05:02,060 --> 00:05:05,100
S2: join the Abraham Accords. What we don't know is what

90
00:05:05,100 --> 00:05:08,339
S2: impact the Arab summit in Doha last week might have

91
00:05:08,380 --> 00:05:11,740
S2: on a possible agreement. I suspect it will likely postpone it,

92
00:05:11,740 --> 00:05:15,300
S2: at least until the anger over Israel's attack blows over.

93
00:05:15,660 --> 00:05:18,380
S2: But at the other end of the spectrum, foreign Islamists

94
00:05:18,380 --> 00:05:22,100
S2: in Syria, including remnants of ISIS and Al Qaida, have

95
00:05:22,100 --> 00:05:25,979
S2: petitioned the new Islamic led government there for citizenship. They're

96
00:05:25,980 --> 00:05:29,260
S2: arguing that they should be granted Syrian citizenship because they

97
00:05:29,300 --> 00:05:32,500
S2: helped overthrow the Assad regime and bring the current government

98
00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:36,500
S2: to power. Turkey's also working to extend its influence in Syria.

99
00:05:36,779 --> 00:05:40,340
S2: Two weeks ago, Israel targeted Turkish made air defense systems.

100
00:05:40,339 --> 00:05:43,500
S2: It was installing in Syria that Israel saw as a

101
00:05:43,500 --> 00:05:48,300
S2: threat internally. Syria remains divided during the new government's first

102
00:05:48,300 --> 00:05:52,300
S2: eight months, there have been three major incidents of sectarian violence,

103
00:05:52,300 --> 00:05:56,490
S2: including attacks on the Alawites, on Orthodox Syrian Christians, and

104
00:05:56,529 --> 00:05:59,570
S2: on the Druze. Syrian forces have also been working to

105
00:05:59,610 --> 00:06:03,609
S2: dismantle forces affiliated with Hezbollah. Hezbollah and Iran want to

106
00:06:03,650 --> 00:06:07,930
S2: establish a weapons supply route for Hezbollah through Syria. Hezbollah

107
00:06:07,930 --> 00:06:10,770
S2: also wants to establish cells in southern Syria that could

108
00:06:10,770 --> 00:06:13,729
S2: attack Israel. But right now, the US is pushing to

109
00:06:13,770 --> 00:06:17,730
S2: rehabilitate the current Syrian government. But both Israel and the

110
00:06:17,730 --> 00:06:20,210
S2: Druze are watching with a critical eye.

111
00:06:20,490 --> 00:06:23,050
S1: Charlie, as I listen to this assessment, I'm saying, what

112
00:06:23,050 --> 00:06:26,050
S1: in the world, then, is the motivation for Israel to

113
00:06:26,089 --> 00:06:28,890
S1: even think about pulling back at all from any of

114
00:06:28,930 --> 00:06:30,130
S1: their positions right now?

115
00:06:30,610 --> 00:06:33,650
S2: Well, uh, mainly to try and get peace and to

116
00:06:33,690 --> 00:06:36,730
S2: placate some others. But they're looking at it very critically. Uh,

117
00:06:36,730 --> 00:06:39,650
S2: they do not want to have to recapture land again

118
00:06:39,650 --> 00:06:41,450
S2: that they've already captured in the past.

119
00:06:41,890 --> 00:06:45,330
S1: Moving still further to the east. What's the latest with Iran?

120
00:06:45,370 --> 00:06:48,250
S1: You mentioned Iran several times, and the conflict with Israel

121
00:06:48,250 --> 00:06:51,210
S1: is over, but Iran is still threatening to eliminate the

122
00:06:51,210 --> 00:06:53,640
S1: Jewish state. What's been taking place there?

123
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,320
S2: You know, Iran continues to struggle. They have a severe

124
00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:00,440
S2: shortage of water and electricity. The threat of snapback sanctions

125
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,760
S2: is hanging over their head. Now, if those sanctions are reimposed,

126
00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,600
S2: that would include a full arms embargo, a total ban

127
00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,960
S2: on uranium enrichment, a ban on ballistic missile tests and

128
00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,760
S2: a ban on international travel for Iranian officials. The deadline

129
00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,760
S2: to oppose those sanctions expires in October. So really, there's

130
00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,640
S2: a pressure on Iran right now to reach a deal

131
00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,200
S2: with the UK, France and Germany quickly. In addition to

132
00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,280
S2: the external pressure, that country is divided internally between hardliners

133
00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,320
S2: who want to move quickly to restore the nuclear program

134
00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,360
S2: and missile stockpile, and pragmatists who would prefer focusing on

135
00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,880
S2: resolving the country's internal problems. Two weeks ago, Iran signed

136
00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,240
S2: an agreement with the International Atomic Energy Agency, which would

137
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,400
S2: open the way for inspections of their nuclear facilities. That's good.

138
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,520
S2: But on the very next day, Iran's foreign minister said

139
00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,790
S2: the inspectors are still banned from their nuclear sites. So

140
00:07:51,790 --> 00:07:54,550
S2: it's unclear what they're really saying. They continue to blame

141
00:07:54,550 --> 00:07:57,150
S2: Israel and the US for their problems, and they've not

142
00:07:57,150 --> 00:08:00,550
S2: given up on seeking ways to rebuild militarily. They were

143
00:08:00,550 --> 00:08:03,989
S2: forced to admit that the uranium previously enriched to 60%,

144
00:08:04,030 --> 00:08:07,270
S2: is buried under the rubble of the facilities that were destroyed.

145
00:08:07,590 --> 00:08:10,590
S2: Israel isn't waiting to see what Iran might do. Scientists

146
00:08:10,590 --> 00:08:14,990
S2: from Israel's defense giant Raphael announced a partnership with Israel

147
00:08:14,990 --> 00:08:18,470
S2: start up Lulav Space to develop a drone interception system

148
00:08:18,470 --> 00:08:22,870
S2: with autonomous guidance. And another Israeli company, Elbit Systems, announced

149
00:08:22,870 --> 00:08:26,550
S2: a breakthrough in laser interception that's designed to defend against

150
00:08:26,550 --> 00:08:30,550
S2: Iranian missile threats, including ballistic missiles, at a lower cost

151
00:08:30,550 --> 00:08:34,230
S2: than the existing systems. The new system could be operational

152
00:08:34,230 --> 00:08:37,950
S2: in five years, helping Israel stay one step ahead of

153
00:08:37,950 --> 00:08:39,470
S2: any Iranian threat.

154
00:08:39,870 --> 00:08:44,070
S1: Well become a digital archaeologist without leaving home. That's an

155
00:08:44,070 --> 00:08:48,590
S1: interesting premise. Israel has unveiled an online database of 4

156
00:08:48,590 --> 00:08:53,860
S1: million archaeological finds, allowing visitors to digitally explore discoveries from

157
00:08:53,860 --> 00:08:57,699
S1: ancient Israel. Tell us about this latest offering from Israel's

158
00:08:57,700 --> 00:08:59,020
S1: Antiquities Authority.

159
00:08:59,460 --> 00:09:01,420
S2: This is for anyone who has a lot of time

160
00:09:01,420 --> 00:09:03,459
S2: on their hands. That's how I have to start it, John.

161
00:09:03,700 --> 00:09:08,540
S2: This new database gives the public free access to ancient artifacts, images,

162
00:09:08,540 --> 00:09:12,460
S2: and even 3D models of sites and testing it out.

163
00:09:12,460 --> 00:09:15,780
S2: I explored the gate complex at ancient Lachish. It was

164
00:09:15,780 --> 00:09:18,740
S2: almost like being on site, including being able to zoom

165
00:09:18,740 --> 00:09:21,260
S2: in and rotate the image to look at the gate

166
00:09:21,260 --> 00:09:25,780
S2: from multiple angles. The website includes nearly a million artifacts,

167
00:09:25,780 --> 00:09:30,540
S2: more than 1.2 million images, and over 15,000 3D models

168
00:09:30,540 --> 00:09:34,140
S2: of sites and finds. Now, here are some of the downsides.

169
00:09:34,460 --> 00:09:36,780
S2: You do need to register, and at least for me,

170
00:09:36,780 --> 00:09:39,540
S2: this site originally showed up in Hebrew, though I was

171
00:09:39,540 --> 00:09:41,260
S2: able to find the link that took me to the

172
00:09:41,260 --> 00:09:45,420
S2: English version. I also found the site somewhat cumbersome to navigate,

173
00:09:45,420 --> 00:09:47,980
S2: and that's being charitable. It seems as if it could

174
00:09:48,130 --> 00:09:50,650
S2: have been made more intuitive, but I suspect it will

175
00:09:50,690 --> 00:09:53,170
S2: become easier to use as I use it over time.

176
00:09:53,490 --> 00:09:56,809
S2: Even finding the site was more difficult than I anticipated.

177
00:09:56,970 --> 00:09:59,090
S2: You can find it by typing. You ready for this?

178
00:09:59,130 --> 00:10:06,809
S2: Discover I. I select a guest login and be sure

179
00:10:06,809 --> 00:10:09,610
S2: to give yourself enough time to navigate through the site.

180
00:10:09,929 --> 00:10:12,450
S2: In some ways, you'll feel like you're on a dig.

181
00:10:12,490 --> 00:10:15,689
S2: You're exploring without knowing exactly where you're going or what

182
00:10:15,690 --> 00:10:18,770
S2: you'll find. But with a little bit of patience, the

183
00:10:18,770 --> 00:10:22,210
S2: images and the artifacts and the 3D models you uncover

184
00:10:22,210 --> 00:10:25,449
S2: will indeed be rewarding. But again, be prepared to spend

185
00:10:25,450 --> 00:10:27,569
S2: some time trying to find your way around.

186
00:10:27,730 --> 00:10:29,450
S1: All right. Thank you Charlie. And that's a look at

187
00:10:29,450 --> 00:10:32,250
S1: current events from the region. Well, when you have a

188
00:10:32,250 --> 00:10:35,290
S1: conversation with somebody about Jesus, they're happy to concede he

189
00:10:35,290 --> 00:10:37,810
S1: was a, quote, good guy. But when you tell him

190
00:10:37,809 --> 00:10:40,370
S1: that he was God and claimed to be so. Boy,

191
00:10:40,370 --> 00:10:44,250
S1: the conversation turns icy. What is the evidence? We'll look

192
00:10:44,250 --> 00:10:46,290
S1: at that and a whole lot more. In a conversation

193
00:10:46,290 --> 00:10:50,400
S1: we've titled Did Jesus really say he was God? That's

194
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,960
S1: all ahead as we continue next on the land and

195
00:10:52,960 --> 00:11:10,600
S1: the book. Did you ever wonder if Jesus really claimed

196
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,840
S1: to be God? Some people say he never said that.

197
00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,800
S1: Others ask, why believe Jesus is divine if he never

198
00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:22,280
S1: claimed it? Well, these challenges aren't just from non-Christians. Increasingly,

199
00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,400
S1: you're hearing these comments in church, but even if you're

200
00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,680
S1: not coming from a place of skepticism, you might still

201
00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:31,240
S1: question if the church teachings about Jesus match up with

202
00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,000
S1: what he really said. Did the historical Jesus claim to

203
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,080
S1: be divine? We're about to explore the evidence. First, though,

204
00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,400
S1: let's explore a fresh idea about loving our Jewish friends

205
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,880
S1: and neighbors for Christ. So there you are, having a

206
00:11:45,059 --> 00:11:48,540
S1: conversation finally in depth on a spiritual level with that

207
00:11:48,540 --> 00:11:51,740
S1: Jewish friend of yours and everything within your heart cries

208
00:11:51,740 --> 00:11:54,780
S1: out to ask, so why is it you guys just

209
00:11:54,780 --> 00:11:58,540
S1: don't want to receive Jesus for who he is as Messiah?

210
00:11:58,620 --> 00:12:00,980
S1: Is that a fair question to ask? Let's throw that

211
00:12:00,980 --> 00:12:03,740
S1: one in the direction of Justin Crone, who's with Chosen

212
00:12:03,740 --> 00:12:04,740
S1: People Ministries.

213
00:12:05,059 --> 00:12:07,740
S3: Well, I think if you would want to get into

214
00:12:07,740 --> 00:12:09,459
S3: a little bit of a fight, that might be the

215
00:12:09,460 --> 00:12:12,620
S3: best way to go about it, but I think it

216
00:12:12,620 --> 00:12:15,860
S3: might be better to approach it with asking, can you

217
00:12:15,860 --> 00:12:20,100
S3: help me understand why Jewish people don't believe that Jesus

218
00:12:20,140 --> 00:12:21,140
S3: is the Messiah?

219
00:12:21,220 --> 00:12:22,660
S1: That's a bold question, Justin.

220
00:12:22,740 --> 00:12:25,860
S3: Well, it is, but it really is the question that

221
00:12:25,860 --> 00:12:27,580
S3: we need to get to, isn't it? I mean, we

222
00:12:27,580 --> 00:12:31,460
S3: really need to find out. Well, why is it that

223
00:12:31,740 --> 00:12:34,260
S3: you don't? Why is it that my friend doesn't believe

224
00:12:34,260 --> 00:12:36,740
S3: that Jesus is the Messiah? Because let's be honest, I

225
00:12:36,740 --> 00:12:39,500
S3: think for many of us who are followers of Jesus,

226
00:12:40,100 --> 00:12:43,380
S3: we just think it's very obvious, don't we? Or maybe

227
00:12:43,380 --> 00:12:46,410
S3: you might remember the time where it wasn't so obvious

228
00:12:46,410 --> 00:12:49,290
S3: to you. But in general, we really kind of we

229
00:12:49,330 --> 00:12:52,689
S3: see the scriptures, we see the prophecies, and we think, well,

230
00:12:52,730 --> 00:12:55,450
S3: there could be no other but Jesus who's the Messiah.

231
00:12:55,450 --> 00:12:57,650
S3: And so we need to find out. Well, why is

232
00:12:57,650 --> 00:13:00,329
S3: it that my friend doesn't believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

233
00:13:00,330 --> 00:13:02,450
S3: And sometimes the best way to ask that is to

234
00:13:02,490 --> 00:13:06,170
S3: generalize it. Why do you think that Jewish people don't

235
00:13:06,170 --> 00:13:08,410
S3: believe in the Messiah, and your friend may not be

236
00:13:08,450 --> 00:13:12,290
S3: able to answer, obviously, for all Jewish people, but eventually

237
00:13:12,290 --> 00:13:14,450
S3: he or she might bring it back down to themselves.

238
00:13:14,570 --> 00:13:18,290
S1: Good tips from Justin Cronin with Chosen People Ministries. Our

239
00:13:18,290 --> 00:13:22,730
S1: guest today on the land and the book Doctor Michael

240
00:13:22,770 --> 00:13:27,290
S1: del Rosario, is our 429th guest on The Land and

241
00:13:27,290 --> 00:13:29,530
S1: the book. So I guess that's an honor to be.

242
00:13:29,530 --> 00:13:32,290
S4: 429 well 429 what? What a number.

243
00:13:32,970 --> 00:13:37,330
S1: Doctor Rosario helps Christians explain their faith with courage and compassion.

244
00:13:37,610 --> 00:13:39,730
S1: He is a professor of Bible and theology at the

245
00:13:39,730 --> 00:13:42,570
S1: Moody Bible Institute in Chicago, and a member of the

246
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:47,920
S1: Evangelical Theological Society. Doctor del Rosario hosts a podcast called

247
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:52,679
S1: The Apologetics Guy show on YouTube and the Christianity Today Network.

248
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,640
S1: He's also written the book at the heart of today's conversation.

249
00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,440
S1: Did Jesus really say he was God? Hey, thanks for

250
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,840
S1: joining us today on the land and the book.

251
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:02,959
S4: Thank you so much for having me.

252
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,719
S1: Why is it so important that we get this question right?

253
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,240
S4: You know, it's a question that, as you said, not

254
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,880
S4: just people who maybe are friends, who are skeptical, like

255
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,960
S4: Jehovah's Witnesses or Muslim friends who say Jesus never claimed

256
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,160
S4: to be God. But more and more, we're seeing people

257
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,840
S4: in the church who are affected by reading skeptical scholars

258
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,040
S4: where they begin to question, can we really trust what

259
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,520
S4: the Bible says? I have a student in my class

260
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,240
S4: here at the Moody Bible Institute who said that she

261
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,880
S4: had this question, struggling with it, growing up, even asking

262
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:33,440
S4: her mom about it. So I think we need to

263
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,920
S4: train Christian parents, youth pastors, pastors, people in the church

264
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,880
S4: to answer these questions. They're not always coming from a

265
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,750
S4: place of skepticism. Sometimes Christians hear these challenges and they go,

266
00:14:43,030 --> 00:14:44,710
S4: there's got to be a good answer to that.

267
00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:47,750
S1: Well, why don't you take us? Let's dive right in.

268
00:14:47,790 --> 00:14:50,830
S1: Take us to a Bible text that clearly demonstrates Jesus

269
00:14:50,830 --> 00:14:51,910
S1: claim to be God.

270
00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:54,070
S4: Yeah. You know, a lot of people will go straight

271
00:14:54,070 --> 00:14:56,270
S4: to the Gospel of John and find these very clear

272
00:14:56,270 --> 00:14:58,470
S4: statements like I and the father are one. Or if

273
00:14:58,510 --> 00:15:01,470
S4: you've seen me, you've seen the father. But for Christians

274
00:15:01,470 --> 00:15:03,790
S4: who read these skeptical scholars and they begin to wrestle

275
00:15:03,790 --> 00:15:07,670
S4: with doubts, a lot of the skeptical scholarship will say,

276
00:15:07,710 --> 00:15:10,390
S4: let's put John to the side, because if Jesus really

277
00:15:10,390 --> 00:15:12,590
S4: said things like I and the father are one, how

278
00:15:12,590 --> 00:15:14,950
S4: come we don't see any hint of a divine claim

279
00:15:14,950 --> 00:15:19,150
S4: in the earlier Gospels, the Synoptics, Matthew, Mark, or Luke?

280
00:15:19,390 --> 00:15:22,030
S4: And especially in Mark, because most scholars believe that Mark

281
00:15:22,030 --> 00:15:24,470
S4: was the very first one that was written. So I

282
00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:27,030
S4: like to go there. The earliest miracle story in the

283
00:15:27,030 --> 00:15:31,630
S4: earliest gospel, Mark chapter two Jesus is healing a paralytic.

284
00:15:31,830 --> 00:15:33,790
S4: And when he heals the paralytic, he says to him,

285
00:15:33,790 --> 00:15:36,790
S4: first he says, son, your sins are forgiven. Yeah, the

286
00:15:36,790 --> 00:15:39,990
S4: scribes are there and they're like, why is this guy

287
00:15:40,180 --> 00:15:43,020
S4: talking like that? Right? He's blaspheming. Who can forgive sins

288
00:15:43,020 --> 00:15:45,980
S4: but God alone? It's a rhetorical question. The answer is nobody.

289
00:15:45,980 --> 00:15:49,300
S4: Only God can forgive sins. And then when Jesus heals

290
00:15:49,300 --> 00:15:52,820
S4: the man, he's pointing to vindication. He says, so that

291
00:15:52,820 --> 00:15:54,980
S4: you may know that the Son of Man has authority

292
00:15:54,980 --> 00:15:56,820
S4: on earth to forgive sins. I say to you, he

293
00:15:56,820 --> 00:15:58,660
S4: tells the man, get up and walk. When the man

294
00:15:58,700 --> 00:16:01,220
S4: gets up and walks, it shows that he does have

295
00:16:01,220 --> 00:16:03,620
S4: the authority on earth to forgive sins. That's not just

296
00:16:03,620 --> 00:16:06,180
S4: a human claim, that's a divine claim. And that's one

297
00:16:06,180 --> 00:16:08,859
S4: place I like to start, because that is historically defensible.

298
00:16:08,860 --> 00:16:11,460
S4: And for people who say, well, I want to talk

299
00:16:11,460 --> 00:16:13,620
S4: about the history of it, I can't just believe it

300
00:16:13,620 --> 00:16:16,180
S4: because the Bible says that's one that's fun to talk

301
00:16:16,180 --> 00:16:17,260
S4: about historically.

302
00:16:17,260 --> 00:16:19,380
S1: And I think that's important. And one of the reasons

303
00:16:19,380 --> 00:16:22,220
S1: maybe we don't give it enough thought is because we

304
00:16:22,220 --> 00:16:25,540
S1: just dismiss, uh, you know, the importance of what the

305
00:16:25,540 --> 00:16:28,780
S1: Pharisees understood to be right and wrong and theologically proper.

306
00:16:28,780 --> 00:16:31,700
S1: And they clearly saw Jesus making a divine claim.

307
00:16:31,700 --> 00:16:33,900
S4: Yes, that's right. They were the theologians in the audience,

308
00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:35,380
S4: and they got it. And what I wanted to do

309
00:16:35,380 --> 00:16:37,220
S4: with my book was a lot of books want to

310
00:16:37,220 --> 00:16:39,970
S4: look at what Jesus disciples thought about what he said.

311
00:16:39,970 --> 00:16:42,330
S4: I wanted to look at what did Jesus enemies think?

312
00:16:42,490 --> 00:16:45,330
S4: They were not unclear about this whole thing. They clearly

313
00:16:45,330 --> 00:16:47,650
S4: understood what he was saying and hence the offense. That's

314
00:16:47,650 --> 00:16:49,770
S4: why he was called a blasphemer. That's why he was

315
00:16:49,770 --> 00:16:52,970
S4: called a blasphemer. Had his Jewish examination before the high

316
00:16:53,010 --> 00:16:55,450
S4: priest Caiaphas. And that's another text I'd like to go

317
00:16:55,450 --> 00:16:58,650
S4: to is Mark 14, where Jesus has this direct confrontation

318
00:16:58,650 --> 00:16:59,650
S4: with the high priest.

319
00:16:59,890 --> 00:17:01,850
S1: We'll go there in just a second after I remind

320
00:17:01,850 --> 00:17:05,210
S1: folks you're listening to Doctor Mikel del Rosario, who's helping

321
00:17:05,210 --> 00:17:08,890
S1: Christians explain their faith with courage and compassion. That's his

322
00:17:08,890 --> 00:17:11,850
S1: thing in life. He's written the book. Did Jesus really

323
00:17:11,850 --> 00:17:14,410
S1: say he was God? All right. To the second passage.

324
00:17:14,410 --> 00:17:15,330
S1: Where are we going? Here.

325
00:17:15,730 --> 00:17:19,490
S4: Yeah. Mark, chapter 14. This is Jesus Jewish examination. He's

326
00:17:19,490 --> 00:17:22,969
S4: standing before the Jewish Council, the high priest, Caiaphas, and

327
00:17:22,970 --> 00:17:25,690
S4: he just asks him straight. Caiaphas says, just tell us

328
00:17:25,690 --> 00:17:28,730
S4: right now, are you the Messiah, the son of the blessed?

329
00:17:29,050 --> 00:17:31,890
S4: Jesus says, I am. And you will see the Son

330
00:17:31,890 --> 00:17:34,169
S4: of Man seated at the right hand of the power

331
00:17:34,170 --> 00:17:36,649
S4: and coming on the clouds of heaven. Now for people

332
00:17:36,650 --> 00:17:38,719
S4: who say, you know what? I'm not religious, but I

333
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,240
S4: like history. I find that it's great to talk about

334
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,160
S4: these two texts, Mark 14 and Mark two and put

335
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,119
S4: them together, because here in 14 you see Jesus making

336
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:51,160
S4: a highly elevated claim, just like son, your sins are forgiven.

337
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,639
S4: That's a divine claim, not a human claim in Mark two.

338
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,200
S4: Here he's claiming to have the authority to judge the

339
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,239
S4: council and the high priest, and they're like, we are

340
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,280
S4: God's representatives on planet Earth. And who are you? You're

341
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,159
S4: going to judge us. How dare you? And that's the

342
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,040
S4: vibe you get. He's putting together in his answer, Psalm

343
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,480
S4: 110 and Daniel seven, and this idea of the Son

344
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,720
S4: of Man, who in Daniel's vision, there's one like a

345
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,000
S4: son of man who is given all authority. All the

346
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,960
S4: nations of the world would worship him, and his kingdom

347
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,639
S4: would be unstoppable. Who is the Son of Man? It's

348
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,280
S4: already in the Jewish contemplation. Jesus is using that to

349
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,600
S4: explain more about who he is, and that he will

350
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,640
S4: be seated at the right hand of God. That's from

351
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,960
S4: Psalm 110. This coronation psalm that many Jews began to

352
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,310
S4: see this when the monarchy didn't come back as pointing

353
00:18:37,350 --> 00:18:40,670
S4: to the ultimate eschatological king. And so Jesus is saying,

354
00:18:40,670 --> 00:18:42,750
S4: he's the one who's seated. He's going to be seated

355
00:18:42,750 --> 00:18:45,190
S4: at God's right hand. He's pointing to vindication and saying,

356
00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:47,350
S4: there will be another trial one day. And you guys

357
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:48,950
S4: won't be judging me at that one.

358
00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:51,750
S1: Well, you know, it's pretty clear, I think, to just

359
00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:56,510
S1: about anybody that those in Jesus time, his contemporaries, these Pharisees,

360
00:18:56,510 --> 00:18:59,629
S1: these leaders, again they got the message. They got the point.

361
00:18:59,630 --> 00:19:01,629
S1: You were to ask them, they'd say, oh, you know,

362
00:19:01,630 --> 00:19:03,910
S1: he's claiming to be God. So with that in mind,

363
00:19:03,910 --> 00:19:06,990
S1: how could anybody dispute these obvious statements?

364
00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:10,070
S4: Sometimes people have literary questions like, show me where in

365
00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:12,389
S4: the Bible Jesus says He's God, or where in the

366
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:15,790
S4: Bible it teaches Jesus as God. Other people have historical questions,

367
00:19:15,790 --> 00:19:17,590
S4: and you can show them a text and they'll say, well, yeah,

368
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:19,949
S4: the Bible might say that, but how do I know

369
00:19:19,950 --> 00:19:22,830
S4: that really happened? Did Jesus really say he was God?

370
00:19:23,030 --> 00:19:25,230
S4: And that's where we talk about some of these historical

371
00:19:25,230 --> 00:19:28,869
S4: rules that Jewish scholars and atheist scholars can come to

372
00:19:28,869 --> 00:19:31,270
S4: the table together with Christians and actually talk about the

373
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:33,869
S4: things Jesus said about himself. So whether or not you

374
00:19:33,869 --> 00:19:36,530
S4: believe the Bible is the Word of God. Even approaching

375
00:19:36,530 --> 00:19:39,890
S4: the scriptures purely from a critical historical perspective, you're going

376
00:19:39,890 --> 00:19:41,290
S4: to have to come face to face with the claims

377
00:19:41,290 --> 00:19:43,449
S4: of Jesus. Even if you don't believe the Bible is

378
00:19:43,450 --> 00:19:44,890
S4: God's Word, you're going to have to say, wow, who

379
00:19:44,890 --> 00:19:48,250
S4: is Jesus? And what am I going to do with that?

380
00:19:48,850 --> 00:19:51,129
S1: This is the land and the book where we're addressing

381
00:19:51,130 --> 00:19:55,090
S1: the question, Did Jesus really say he was God? That,

382
00:19:55,090 --> 00:19:57,650
S1: by the way, is also the title of Michael Del

383
00:19:57,650 --> 00:20:02,169
S1: Rosario's book that we're centerpiece today. Our expert doctor, Michael

384
00:20:02,210 --> 00:20:04,929
S1: del Rosario, is also professor of Bible and theology at

385
00:20:04,930 --> 00:20:07,649
S1: the Moody Bible Institute in Chicago. Let me ask you,

386
00:20:07,650 --> 00:20:10,889
S1: in your experience as an apologist, do you see a

387
00:20:10,930 --> 00:20:14,450
S1: rise in the secular world's doubt factor toward the deity

388
00:20:14,450 --> 00:20:16,250
S1: of Jesus? And if so, what's behind that?

389
00:20:16,530 --> 00:20:19,450
S4: Yeah. You know, LifeWay and Ligonier Ministries did a study

390
00:20:19,450 --> 00:20:22,730
S4: where they found that they pulled 3000 people and 3000

391
00:20:22,730 --> 00:20:26,090
S4: people who were self-professed evangelical Christians, who they say went

392
00:20:26,090 --> 00:20:29,690
S4: to church regularly, according to them. 43% of them agreed

393
00:20:29,690 --> 00:20:32,010
S4: with the statement. Jesus was a great teacher, but he

394
00:20:32,010 --> 00:20:37,480
S4: was not God. Hmm. That's surprisingly remarkable. And I think

395
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,000
S4: we take for granted the people in our church what

396
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,040
S4: people around us believe. Sometimes we don't say these very

397
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,960
S4: basic things from the pulpit because we think, well, of course,

398
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,000
S4: everyone knows Jesus is God. But what's behind that, I

399
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,320
S4: think sometimes, is secular scholarship, where people are reading secular

400
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,880
S4: scholars who are trying to fact check the Bible and

401
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,520
S4: they say, well, yeah, the Bible says it, but does

402
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,479
S4: it really happen? So they try to pit the Gospels

403
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,480
S4: against each other. And so that can cause people to doubt.

404
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,200
S4: Sometimes talking with friends from other, say, new religious movements

405
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,600
S4: like the Jehovah's Witnesses or other world religions like Muslims

406
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,920
S4: and people might ask, where does Jesus say he's God?

407
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,640
S4: Sometimes Christians can't give a good answer to that. And

408
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,280
S4: so they can begin to doubt. So it could be

409
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,320
S4: coming from those places for young people. I think instead

410
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,960
S4: of asking, uh, where did they read this? Sometimes they

411
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,679
S4: just see it on social media, on a TikTok, on

412
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,080
S4: a YouTube video, or maybe hear it in a podcast.

413
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,790
S4: And these popular platforms are where some of the skepticism

414
00:21:32,790 --> 00:21:33,510
S4: comes from.

415
00:21:33,950 --> 00:21:36,190
S1: I'm loving the journey you're taking us on through Scripture.

416
00:21:36,190 --> 00:21:38,870
S1: Could you take us to yet another biblical evidence of

417
00:21:38,869 --> 00:21:40,629
S1: Jesus claim to be God?

418
00:21:41,030 --> 00:21:43,550
S4: Well, first let me put together Mark two and 14.

419
00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:46,350
S4: All right. So Mark chapter two, Jesus says, so that

420
00:21:46,350 --> 00:21:48,470
S4: you may know that the Son of Man has authority

421
00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:52,030
S4: on earth to forgive sins. Nobody does that. Only God does.

422
00:21:52,030 --> 00:21:55,070
S4: That's a divine claim, not a human claim. In Mark 14,

423
00:21:55,070 --> 00:21:58,310
S4: Jesus is claiming to have authority in heaven to judge sins.

424
00:21:58,510 --> 00:22:01,510
S4: That's not a human claim. That's a divine claim. If

425
00:22:01,510 --> 00:22:04,510
S4: you have authority in heaven and on earth, that means

426
00:22:04,510 --> 00:22:09,190
S4: authority over all of reality. And Mark shows us literarily.

427
00:22:09,230 --> 00:22:11,550
S4: He shows us just a glimpse of what that looks like.

428
00:22:11,550 --> 00:22:15,110
S4: Just the opening chapters of Mark. Jesus has authority over nature.

429
00:22:15,109 --> 00:22:17,949
S4: He calms the storm. We read in the Psalms that

430
00:22:17,950 --> 00:22:20,070
S4: God is the one who calms the storm, has authority

431
00:22:20,070 --> 00:22:23,190
S4: over the wind and the waves. He raises a little

432
00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:26,750
S4: dead girl to life, so he has authority over demons

433
00:22:26,750 --> 00:22:29,429
S4: as well. He exercises a legion of demons from a

434
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:30,310
S4: person in Capernaum.

435
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:33,659
S1: We're seeing him. Many, many demons being cast out as

436
00:22:33,660 --> 00:22:34,780
S1: the people line up at the house there.

437
00:22:34,820 --> 00:22:37,340
S4: Yeah, he heals so many people. He has authority over disease.

438
00:22:37,660 --> 00:22:42,180
S4: Jesus has authority over nature, over demons, disease and death.

439
00:22:42,220 --> 00:22:44,820
S4: Who does that and all these different areas? That's a

440
00:22:44,820 --> 00:22:48,020
S4: glimpse of what authority in heaven and on earth looks like.

441
00:22:48,020 --> 00:22:51,300
S4: He can claim to bind Satan. What human can do that?

442
00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:53,780
S4: And here's a really cool thing to think about. A

443
00:22:53,780 --> 00:22:56,900
S4: prophet like Elijah could pray to God, and then God

444
00:22:56,900 --> 00:22:59,900
S4: could answer his prayer and raise a dead girl to life.

445
00:23:00,220 --> 00:23:03,900
S4: But when Jesus said, Talitha koum to Jairus daughter, he

446
00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:05,979
S4: didn't pray. He didn't mention God. He just did it

447
00:23:05,980 --> 00:23:08,500
S4: out of his own authority. Same thing with the forgiveness

448
00:23:08,500 --> 00:23:10,899
S4: of sins. He never prayed. He never mentioned God. They

449
00:23:10,940 --> 00:23:12,940
S4: are not in the temple. He's not acting like a priest.

450
00:23:12,940 --> 00:23:16,100
S4: There is no sacrifice. How are you doing this? And

451
00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:19,220
S4: in fact, his adversaries, his enemies would be correct. He

452
00:23:19,220 --> 00:23:22,060
S4: would be a blasphemer if he is not actually God

453
00:23:22,060 --> 00:23:22,940
S4: as he claimed to be.

454
00:23:23,619 --> 00:23:26,100
S1: Thanks for connecting with the land and the book and

455
00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:30,649
S1: our 429th guest, Doctor Mikel del Rosario. He hosts a

456
00:23:30,650 --> 00:23:33,850
S1: podcast called The Apologetics Guy show. I've seen it on YouTube,

457
00:23:33,850 --> 00:23:36,689
S1: it's fun. And the Christianity Today Network also, you can

458
00:23:36,690 --> 00:23:39,169
S1: see it there. He's written the book. Did Jesus really

459
00:23:39,170 --> 00:23:41,730
S1: say he was God? Michael, it feels to me like

460
00:23:41,730 --> 00:23:44,930
S1: this is so plain, so obvious, that the only explanation

461
00:23:44,930 --> 00:23:50,530
S1: for missing Christ's claims is a chosen disbelief, a dislike

462
00:23:50,530 --> 00:23:51,970
S1: of Jesus, if you will.

463
00:23:52,010 --> 00:23:55,530
S4: Your assessment that might be true in many, many cases.

464
00:23:55,530 --> 00:23:58,130
S4: There might be some other cases where people just have

465
00:23:58,130 --> 00:24:02,050
S4: a theological misunderstanding, like if I don't see a text

466
00:24:02,050 --> 00:24:04,090
S4: where Jesus claims to be the father, then he didn't

467
00:24:04,090 --> 00:24:06,850
S4: claim to be God. Sometimes people have a misunderstanding of

468
00:24:06,850 --> 00:24:09,570
S4: the Trinity, and so that's where it comes from sometimes.

469
00:24:09,850 --> 00:24:12,850
S4: But yes, I think ultimately people who are pushing back

470
00:24:12,850 --> 00:24:15,050
S4: on the evidence, they're not just pushing back on historical

471
00:24:15,050 --> 00:24:18,449
S4: data as historical data, they're pushing back on the implications

472
00:24:18,450 --> 00:24:21,770
S4: of that historical data. If Jesus really is God, as

473
00:24:21,770 --> 00:24:23,570
S4: he claimed to be, if he claimed to be God,

474
00:24:23,570 --> 00:24:25,290
S4: and he rose from the dead to prove it, and

475
00:24:25,290 --> 00:24:28,920
S4: that's the vindication, then Jesus is either Lord of all

476
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,480
S4: or he's not Lord at all. And so that's a

477
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,680
S4: claim on your life. Jesus divine claim is a claim

478
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,520
S4: on our lives as well. What are we going to

479
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:35,880
S4: do with that?

480
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,520
S1: All right. Given that in the picture, what is the

481
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,840
S1: right way to have a conversation with someone about the

482
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,040
S1: deity of Christ and his claims to that deity?

483
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,040
S4: First, I would say you need to figure out if

484
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,080
S4: their concern is a literary one or a historical one.

485
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,640
S4: So if someone says, show me in the Bible where

486
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,480
S4: Jesus says He's God. That might be a literary kind

487
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,120
S4: of concern. But if someone's asking, did Jesus really say

488
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,520
S4: he was God? Just showing them the Bible might not

489
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,960
S4: really be addressing their concern. And so we might have

490
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,440
S4: to talk to them historically about that. And my book

491
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,840
S4: helps walk people through how historical studies work so that

492
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,440
S4: they could do exactly that. And we should always be

493
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,800
S4: praying throughout that whole experience that God would open their hearts,

494
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,679
S4: that he would give you the words to say, and

495
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,000
S4: that we're really answering the question that people are asking.

496
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,080
S4: So find out what their concerns are, find out what

497
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,480
S4: their questions are, and then be able to engage with

498
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:24,639
S4: them where they are at.

499
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,030
S1: Boy, this has been a very, very fitting 15th anniversary

500
00:25:28,030 --> 00:25:31,470
S1: interview with Doctor Mikel del Rosario. Again, his book Did

501
00:25:31,470 --> 00:25:34,389
S1: Jesus really Say he was God? A link to that

502
00:25:34,390 --> 00:25:37,110
S1: book at our web site. The land and the bookstores.

503
00:25:38,270 --> 00:25:40,830
S1: The land and the book org. Hope you'll come back

504
00:25:40,830 --> 00:25:42,190
S1: and visit us again sometime.

505
00:25:42,190 --> 00:25:43,670
S4: Yeah. Thanks so much for the invitation.

506
00:25:43,710 --> 00:25:46,430
S1: Yeah, we've got some great answers to some great questions.

507
00:25:46,430 --> 00:25:48,430
S1: That's segment three here on the land and the book

508
00:25:48,430 --> 00:25:52,070
S1: with another Moody faculty member, Doctor Gerald Peterman, all ahead

509
00:25:52,070 --> 00:25:55,550
S1: on this special 15th anniversary of the land and the book.

510
00:26:06,869 --> 00:26:09,550
S1: We live in a wonderful age. If you're a Bible student,

511
00:26:09,550 --> 00:26:12,430
S1: because you can go just about anywhere, Google just about anything,

512
00:26:12,430 --> 00:26:16,750
S1: and usually get an answer. But what about when you can't? Ah,

513
00:26:16,790 --> 00:26:19,790
S1: that's what this next segment is all about. Welcome back

514
00:26:19,790 --> 00:26:22,310
S1: to the land and the book. I'm John Gager and

515
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:25,550
S1: I frequently bump into questions that make me scratch my head.

516
00:26:25,590 --> 00:26:28,180
S1: Maybe you do too. Well, that's the point of this

517
00:26:28,180 --> 00:26:30,820
S1: segment with Doctor Gerald Peterman, who we're going to welcome

518
00:26:30,820 --> 00:26:32,620
S1: in just a moment after I point out the fact

519
00:26:32,619 --> 00:26:34,939
S1: that as believers, there's a great need for us to

520
00:26:34,980 --> 00:26:37,780
S1: share the gospel with the Jewish people. In fact, many

521
00:26:37,780 --> 00:26:40,980
S1: of our listeners right now are faithfully praying for partnering

522
00:26:40,980 --> 00:26:44,619
S1: with ministries that are doing just that. But what if

523
00:26:44,619 --> 00:26:47,340
S1: you could personally take part in bringing the gospel to

524
00:26:47,380 --> 00:26:50,660
S1: Jewish people? Well, our friends at Life in Messiah love

525
00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:54,660
S1: the opportunity to get believers like you involved smack dab

526
00:26:54,660 --> 00:26:57,619
S1: in the middle of Jewish ministry. And they regularly organize

527
00:26:57,619 --> 00:27:01,060
S1: outreach teams to Brooklyn, New York, South Florida, even to

528
00:27:01,100 --> 00:27:04,540
S1: Israel outside of times of conflict. And these ministry trips

529
00:27:04,540 --> 00:27:07,419
S1: will really equip you to understand how to share the

530
00:27:07,420 --> 00:27:10,540
S1: gospel with Jewish people, and they'll give you the opportunity

531
00:27:10,540 --> 00:27:13,580
S1: to actively share your faith. Better yet, you'll come away

532
00:27:13,580 --> 00:27:16,300
S1: with tools and resources you can take home with you

533
00:27:16,340 --> 00:27:19,379
S1: if you want to get hands on training. Practical experience

534
00:27:19,380 --> 00:27:22,780
S1: in Jewish evangelism. You can learn more by visiting Life

535
00:27:22,780 --> 00:27:26,770
S1: in Messiah Org and clicking on the Moody Radio button.

536
00:27:26,770 --> 00:27:31,169
S1: That's life in Messiah. Org and hello to Doctor Gerald Peterman.

537
00:27:31,170 --> 00:27:33,530
S5: Well hello everyone. Good to be here.

538
00:27:33,570 --> 00:27:36,250
S1: Nice to have you with us as always. No shortage

539
00:27:36,250 --> 00:27:38,609
S1: of questions that have come in to us. And our

540
00:27:38,609 --> 00:27:41,330
S1: email address I'll I'll mention right at the front is

541
00:27:41,330 --> 00:27:45,889
S1: the land and the book at Moody. That's how you

542
00:27:45,890 --> 00:27:48,930
S1: get your question to us. The land and the book

543
00:27:49,210 --> 00:27:54,129
S1: at Moody. Dot. Mark takes us to John chapter 21,

544
00:27:54,130 --> 00:27:57,570
S1: verses 21 and 22. He says, I don't see Peter saying,

545
00:27:57,570 --> 00:28:01,290
S1: why me about John? I see it as Peter asking

546
00:28:01,290 --> 00:28:03,689
S1: if his very good friend would have to suffer the

547
00:28:03,690 --> 00:28:06,489
S1: same fate. Is this nuanced in the Greek, or am

548
00:28:06,490 --> 00:28:07,890
S1: I going in the wrong direction?

549
00:28:07,890 --> 00:28:11,889
S5: I appreciate that now, Mark's question has to do with

550
00:28:11,890 --> 00:28:16,090
S5: Jesus and the disciples after the resurrection, and this is

551
00:28:16,090 --> 00:28:19,770
S5: something you only find in John's gospel. So it's really fun.

552
00:28:19,930 --> 00:28:24,030
S5: Jesus predicts that Peter is going to die a martyr.

553
00:28:24,670 --> 00:28:27,310
S5: And so here's what we find in John 21 verses

554
00:28:27,310 --> 00:28:30,310
S5: 18 and 19. Jesus says to Peter, truly, truly, I

555
00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:32,590
S5: say to you, when you were young, you used to

556
00:28:32,590 --> 00:28:34,949
S5: dress yourself and walk wherever you wanted. But when you

557
00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:37,590
S5: are old, you will stretch out your hands and another

558
00:28:37,590 --> 00:28:40,470
S5: will dress you and carry you where you do not

559
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:44,230
S5: want to go. Then John says, he said this to

560
00:28:44,270 --> 00:28:47,790
S5: show what kind of death he was going to glorify God. Now,

561
00:28:47,790 --> 00:28:50,989
S5: a couple of verses later, Peter turns around because he

562
00:28:50,990 --> 00:28:53,670
S5: and Jesus are walking. He turns and he sees John there.

563
00:28:53,950 --> 00:28:57,990
S5: And so Peter asks, Lord, what about this man? And

564
00:28:57,990 --> 00:29:00,070
S5: Jesus says to him, if it's my will, that he

565
00:29:00,070 --> 00:29:03,070
S5: remain until I come, what is that to you? You

566
00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:07,230
S5: follow me. So our Lord's question, what is that to you?

567
00:29:07,550 --> 00:29:12,470
S5: That's not praise for compassion. This is getting to the core.

568
00:29:12,510 --> 00:29:15,550
S5: That's not praise for compassion. It's the language of rebuke.

569
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:17,670
S5: It's like saying, why in the world should that be

570
00:29:17,670 --> 00:29:18,870
S5: any business of yours?

571
00:29:18,990 --> 00:29:19,510
S1: Yeah.

572
00:29:19,550 --> 00:29:24,060
S5: So certainly Jesus wouldn't answer Peter's question. If Peter's question

573
00:29:24,060 --> 00:29:26,180
S5: is about compassion, he wouldn't answer it this way.

574
00:29:26,420 --> 00:29:28,380
S1: I think about how I would react, you know? I mean,

575
00:29:28,420 --> 00:29:30,380
S1: how would I feel if Jesus said, hey, what's that

576
00:29:30,380 --> 00:29:31,740
S1: to you? I'd go, ouch.

577
00:29:31,900 --> 00:29:35,660
S5: Ouch, indeed. Yes. This question, uh, the question is this

578
00:29:35,660 --> 00:29:37,300
S5: is this a nuance of the Greek text? I think

579
00:29:37,300 --> 00:29:41,300
S5: it really is this this question is a question that's

580
00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:43,580
S5: finding fault. Yes.

581
00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:45,820
S1: But beyond that, though, don't you think there's a profound

582
00:29:45,820 --> 00:29:48,620
S1: message there? I mean, in spite of the rebuff that

583
00:29:48,620 --> 00:29:51,980
S1: is given. What's that to you? You follow me? I

584
00:29:51,980 --> 00:29:53,820
S1: think Jesus is saying that to every one of us.

585
00:29:53,820 --> 00:29:57,180
S5: Yes. He's saying each one of us must follow. But

586
00:29:57,180 --> 00:29:59,700
S5: our lives can be very different if we follow.

587
00:29:59,700 --> 00:30:03,540
S1: And he's discouraging us from comparing the outcomes and circumstances

588
00:30:03,540 --> 00:30:04,460
S1: of others, is he not?

589
00:30:04,460 --> 00:30:08,980
S5: Oh, John, he sure is, because comparison is a deadly killer. Yeah,

590
00:30:09,020 --> 00:30:12,380
S5: that's envy. And envy is a dirty four letter word.

591
00:30:12,420 --> 00:30:15,340
S1: You follow me. That's what Jesus asks of all of us. Yeah.

592
00:30:15,740 --> 00:30:17,620
S1: All right, let's get to Bob's question. He says, has

593
00:30:17,620 --> 00:30:21,770
S1: anyone ever found the deed scroll that transfers the field

594
00:30:21,770 --> 00:30:25,850
S1: in Anathoth to Jeremiah mentioned in Jeremiah chapter 32. What

595
00:30:25,850 --> 00:30:28,490
S1: would have happened to the title to the land over

596
00:30:28,490 --> 00:30:30,970
S1: the 70 years that Judah was in exile, in light

597
00:30:30,970 --> 00:30:33,050
S1: of Leviticus chapter 25?

598
00:30:33,530 --> 00:30:35,970
S5: Oh good. I had to ponder this one. So we

599
00:30:36,010 --> 00:30:38,690
S5: come to Jeremiah 32 and here's what we find out.

600
00:30:38,730 --> 00:30:43,050
S5: Hanamel is in trouble. He sells some of his property

601
00:30:43,050 --> 00:30:46,610
S5: to Jeremiah, although Jeremiah is in his family. And then

602
00:30:46,610 --> 00:30:49,250
S5: Jeremiah makes up the deed. He puts it in a

603
00:30:49,250 --> 00:30:52,450
S5: jar and now the question becomes, what happened to it?

604
00:30:52,490 --> 00:30:55,010
S5: Now we know from the Dead Sea Scrolls that these

605
00:30:55,010 --> 00:30:57,410
S5: manuscripts in a jar can last for a long time.

606
00:30:57,410 --> 00:30:59,210
S5: They can be there hundreds and hundreds of years. But

607
00:30:59,210 --> 00:31:02,890
S5: as far as I know, Jeremiah's deed scroll has never

608
00:31:02,890 --> 00:31:06,210
S5: been found. But about the title of the land. What

609
00:31:06,210 --> 00:31:10,210
S5: does Leviticus 25 say? When the Jubilee year comes, the

610
00:31:10,210 --> 00:31:13,930
S5: 50th year, all property goes back to the original owner.

611
00:31:14,410 --> 00:31:17,770
S5: And in fact, thanks be to God. Israel is not

612
00:31:17,770 --> 00:31:20,280
S5: an exile forever. After 70 years, they come back to

613
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,040
S5: their land and now the land would go back to animals. Family.

614
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,320
S5: This is what would happen.

615
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,120
S1: All right. Interesting. This is the land and the book

616
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,840
S1: with Doctor Gerald Peterman. Moody Bible Institute faculty member taking

617
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,680
S1: your questions now at the land and the book at Moody.

618
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,120
S1: While that question is in your mind on the tip

619
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,080
S1: of your tongue, go ahead and send an email again,

620
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,600
S1: connect with us at The Land and the Book at Moody.

621
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,560
S1: Let's continue with this question from James, who says, I

622
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,120
S1: was listening to the land in the book and I

623
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,960
S1: heard talk about predestination. Is that referring to people going

624
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,080
S1: to heaven or hell? I'm confused about this, and it's

625
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,120
S1: important for my witnessing and my family.

626
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,560
S5: Yes, indeed it is. I appreciate that question. Talk about

627
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,400
S5: predestination is difficult for us because the way we feel

628
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,600
S5: about our lives many times is we feel that we're

629
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,440
S5: in control. And if God is predestining, that's just not fair.

630
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,590
S5: But predestination in the New Testament is never meant to

631
00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:21,990
S5: scare us. Predestination in the New Testament is meant to

632
00:32:22,030 --> 00:32:25,030
S5: comfort us. Let me give you a couple of examples

633
00:32:25,030 --> 00:32:28,230
S5: of that in Romans eight verse 29. Here's what we find.

634
00:32:28,750 --> 00:32:34,190
S5: Those whom God foreknew, he predestined, predestined to what becomes

635
00:32:34,190 --> 00:32:34,870
S5: our question?

636
00:32:34,910 --> 00:32:35,550
S1: Conformed?

637
00:32:35,590 --> 00:32:39,950
S5: Yes, conformed to the image of His Son, in order

638
00:32:39,950 --> 00:32:43,510
S5: that that son might be the firstborn among many brothers.

639
00:32:43,510 --> 00:32:47,510
S5: And those whom he predestined, he also called, and those

640
00:32:47,510 --> 00:32:51,230
S5: whom he called he justified, and those whom he justified,

641
00:32:51,230 --> 00:32:56,750
S5: he glorified. That is really encouraging stuff. God predestines and

642
00:32:56,750 --> 00:32:59,710
S5: so our future is secure. Let me give you another one.

643
00:32:59,750 --> 00:33:03,550
S5: Very similar is Ephesians one verse five. Paul describes the

644
00:33:03,550 --> 00:33:07,870
S5: believers in Jesus in Ephesus. He says, God predestined us

645
00:33:08,190 --> 00:33:13,630
S5: for adoption to himself as children through Jesus Christ. That is,

646
00:33:13,950 --> 00:33:18,060
S5: predestination is about being part of the family. It's it's encouragement.

647
00:33:18,060 --> 00:33:21,220
S5: I have found no verse in the Bible that talks

648
00:33:21,220 --> 00:33:26,140
S5: about predestination to hell. That would be horrific. It's about

649
00:33:26,140 --> 00:33:31,300
S5: God predestining us to glory, righteousness and a great future.

650
00:33:31,340 --> 00:33:33,060
S1: All right. Speak to that person who says, well, if

651
00:33:33,060 --> 00:33:36,540
S1: we're predestined, why the big emphasis on going out and

652
00:33:36,540 --> 00:33:39,660
S1: making disciples? Why am I passing out gospel tracts? Why

653
00:33:39,660 --> 00:33:41,260
S1: am I put on a guilt trip if I don't

654
00:33:41,260 --> 00:33:43,300
S1: share my faith or predestined after all?

655
00:33:43,540 --> 00:33:46,260
S5: Yeah. Oh, great. John, thanks so much for that. Let

656
00:33:46,260 --> 00:33:48,979
S5: me mention a couple of things on God's side, we

657
00:33:48,980 --> 00:33:52,780
S5: can talk about being predestined, but on our side we

658
00:33:52,900 --> 00:33:56,060
S5: make our own real choices. So I'm going to ask

659
00:33:56,060 --> 00:33:59,140
S5: my listeners to hold two things together at the same time.

660
00:33:59,180 --> 00:34:03,660
S5: God is sovereignly in control. Yes he is. And you

661
00:34:03,660 --> 00:34:07,100
S5: and I make our own real choices. And those choices matter.

662
00:34:07,140 --> 00:34:10,100
S5: Yes they do. It's hard to know how to hold

663
00:34:10,100 --> 00:34:13,020
S5: those together, both at the same time. And so what

664
00:34:13,020 --> 00:34:16,489
S5: does Paul do? What do the disciples do? They go

665
00:34:16,489 --> 00:34:19,610
S5: out and they preach. So we're following their example because

666
00:34:19,610 --> 00:34:23,210
S5: they were excited about the new life they'd received, and

667
00:34:23,210 --> 00:34:25,170
S5: they want others to receive it, too. They're not sitting

668
00:34:25,170 --> 00:34:28,730
S5: back thinking, oh, well, if they're predestined, they'll come to

669
00:34:28,730 --> 00:34:35,009
S5: believe God works through his people. And by working through

670
00:34:35,050 --> 00:34:38,530
S5: his people, he brings those predestined to come to know him.

671
00:34:38,530 --> 00:34:40,290
S1: I hope that's helpful to you. It was to me.

672
00:34:40,290 --> 00:34:43,290
S1: Thank you, Doctor Peterman. Let's go to Charles question. He says,

673
00:34:43,290 --> 00:34:46,129
S1: what happens to a person living on an island who,

674
00:34:46,170 --> 00:34:49,089
S1: while believing in a higher power, has never heard the

675
00:34:49,090 --> 00:34:51,890
S1: name of Jesus? I would add that he or she

676
00:34:51,890 --> 00:34:54,250
S1: will never hear the name of Jesus. Yet they believe

677
00:34:54,250 --> 00:34:58,370
S1: in a God or an ill defined higher power, who

678
00:34:58,410 --> 00:35:01,049
S1: he knows must govern all things his conscience tells him.

679
00:35:01,050 --> 00:35:04,370
S1: So the question is, what is this person's destiny?

680
00:35:04,570 --> 00:35:07,370
S5: Well, I know that's a very sensitive and difficult question.

681
00:35:07,410 --> 00:35:10,770
S5: Let let me give us a couple of examples that

682
00:35:10,770 --> 00:35:13,730
S5: will help us. When Paul preaches in the book of acts,

683
00:35:13,890 --> 00:35:18,070
S5: he's always preaching to people who already believe in a God.

684
00:35:18,430 --> 00:35:21,229
S5: Anywhere he goes, he's already preaching to people who believe

685
00:35:21,230 --> 00:35:24,190
S5: in a God. And yet he tells them the God

686
00:35:24,190 --> 00:35:28,150
S5: of Scripture, the God of all creation, commands all people

687
00:35:28,150 --> 00:35:30,910
S5: everywhere to repent because he has fixed a day when

688
00:35:30,910 --> 00:35:35,030
S5: he will judge the world. Secondly, let's go to Cornelius.

689
00:35:35,190 --> 00:35:37,830
S5: I'm going to summarize this very quickly. This is summarized

690
00:35:37,830 --> 00:35:42,149
S5: in acts ten and 11. Cornelius is a Gentile. He

691
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:45,669
S5: trusts God. He believes God. And yet an angel comes

692
00:35:45,670 --> 00:35:48,390
S5: to him and says, Get Peter to come to you

693
00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:52,190
S5: from Joppa, because you need to hear from Peter. Words

694
00:35:52,190 --> 00:35:55,469
S5: by which you will be saved. Let's go back through

695
00:35:55,469 --> 00:35:59,190
S5: that again. Cornelius is praying. He's praying to the God

696
00:35:59,190 --> 00:36:02,629
S5: of the Old Testament. But he's not saved yet. He

697
00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:06,910
S5: needs the gospel. Yes, from a Christian. Note here I

698
00:36:06,910 --> 00:36:10,270
S5: think this is so funny. The angel comes to Cornelius

699
00:36:10,270 --> 00:36:13,070
S5: and says, go get Peter. And I'm thinking, the angel's

700
00:36:13,140 --> 00:36:15,100
S5: saying to himself, I can't preach the gospel to you,

701
00:36:15,100 --> 00:36:18,180
S5: although I would really want to. Peter has to do it. Yeah.

702
00:36:18,380 --> 00:36:21,420
S5: So here you have someone who believes in God. Ah,

703
00:36:21,460 --> 00:36:24,580
S5: but you need more. You need the gospel. Jesus is

704
00:36:24,580 --> 00:36:25,260
S5: the only way.

705
00:36:25,820 --> 00:36:27,820
S1: This is the land and the book from Moody Radio.

706
00:36:27,860 --> 00:36:30,819
S1: One more segment to come. It's Charlie Dyer's devotional. Our

707
00:36:30,820 --> 00:36:33,340
S1: thanks to Gerald Peterman, who welcomes your question with a

708
00:36:33,340 --> 00:36:36,380
S1: quick email to the land and the book at Moody

709
00:36:36,460 --> 00:36:41,900
S1: Dot the land and the book at Moody. Our friend

710
00:36:41,900 --> 00:36:45,300
S1: Charlie Dyer returns to the studio with his devotional. That's next.

711
00:36:45,300 --> 00:37:01,980
S1: Right here. The day of atonement. That's Yom Kippur. But

712
00:37:01,980 --> 00:37:04,339
S1: why does it matter to you? What do we really

713
00:37:04,340 --> 00:37:07,060
S1: need to know? Charlie Dyer, I suspect you're going to

714
00:37:07,060 --> 00:37:09,339
S1: touch on some of those questions in your devotional today,

715
00:37:09,340 --> 00:37:09,940
S1: am I right?

716
00:37:10,180 --> 00:37:11,500
S2: Indeed I am, John.

717
00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:15,250
S1: But not just Yom Kippur, maybe the ultimate Yom Kippur.

718
00:37:15,290 --> 00:37:18,250
S1: We'll get to that after this Holy Land experience.

719
00:37:22,370 --> 00:37:25,609
S6: Hello. My name is Kyle Rayburn from Dallas, Texas, and

720
00:37:25,610 --> 00:37:27,730
S6: I just got or I'm at the tail end of

721
00:37:27,730 --> 00:37:30,450
S6: my trip to Israel. First trip to Israel. Came over

722
00:37:30,450 --> 00:37:33,609
S6: with my three children and wife. Uh, we had a

723
00:37:33,610 --> 00:37:36,170
S6: wonderful experience for my children and for all of us

724
00:37:36,210 --> 00:37:39,530
S6: that made the Bible just come to life. For me personally,

725
00:37:39,570 --> 00:37:42,729
S6: seeing the area around the Sea of Galilee was very

726
00:37:42,730 --> 00:37:46,130
S6: moving just to see Capernaum and the other towns in

727
00:37:46,170 --> 00:37:49,210
S6: that area, and to know that Jesus was there. Uh,

728
00:37:49,489 --> 00:37:53,569
S6: while that's not essential to my faith, it really was

729
00:37:53,610 --> 00:37:54,890
S6: a meaningful experience.

730
00:37:55,170 --> 00:37:58,130
S7: Hi, my name is Shelly. Um, it's always been a

731
00:37:58,130 --> 00:38:01,890
S7: dream to visit Israel and see the land where it

732
00:38:01,890 --> 00:38:07,410
S7: all began. Being in Israel, um, it's strengthened my beliefs. Um,

733
00:38:07,410 --> 00:38:10,130
S7: it's given me a visual. So now that when I

734
00:38:10,130 --> 00:38:12,920
S7: do my daily devotions, whether it's in reading in the

735
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,040
S7: Old Testament or in the New Testament, everything comes alive

736
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,000
S7: to me now, and I can actually see where all

737
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,479
S7: of these things took place in the Bible. And it's

738
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,399
S7: just strengthened my beliefs even more. And my strength in

739
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,759
S7: the Lord has grown even stronger. Israel is a land

740
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,320
S7: to visit, and it's a land where it all began.

741
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,359
S7: And for me, um, it'll always be a memory that

742
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,000
S7: I'll cherish for the rest of my life.

743
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:42,040
S1: Charlie, you've titled today's devotional The Ultimate Yom Kippur. I'm intrigued.

744
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,200
S1: I mean, we know about Yom Kippur, but this ultimate business. Well,

745
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,279
S1: I'll let you have at it. I'm intrigued.

746
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,840
S2: Well. Thank you. Well, have you ever been fooled by

747
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,920
S2: slick marketing? You know, you bought a product billed as

748
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:58,240
S2: the most amazing knife or skillet or hose or pillow

749
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:02,319
S2: or exercise machine ever invented, but when it arrives, it

750
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,279
S2: turns out to be less than advertised. Or do you

751
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,680
S2: pay the entrance fee to some overhyped tourist attraction, the

752
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,950
S2: world's largest tin whistle museum, for example, only to discover

753
00:39:12,950 --> 00:39:16,750
S2: it's a rip off. You leave mumbling to yourself. Been there,

754
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:19,870
S2: done that. Got the t shirt. I came, I saw,

755
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:23,750
S2: and I'm never going back. Maybe your expectations were just

756
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:26,950
S2: too high. Or maybe the place or product just tried

757
00:39:26,950 --> 00:39:30,469
S2: too hard to sell itself. But for whatever reason, there

758
00:39:30,469 --> 00:39:35,350
S2: really aren't that many experiences in life that exceed our expectations.

759
00:39:35,590 --> 00:39:38,510
S2: And that's why we get so excited when something totally

760
00:39:38,510 --> 00:39:42,469
S2: surpasses what we ever imagined it would be like. One

761
00:39:42,469 --> 00:39:44,470
S2: of those places for me is the Mount of Olives,

762
00:39:44,469 --> 00:39:47,550
S2: and that's why today's journey takes us to this hill

763
00:39:47,550 --> 00:39:50,790
S2: on the east side of Jerusalem. As we drive south

764
00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:53,390
S2: along the summit, look out the left side window of

765
00:39:53,390 --> 00:39:55,989
S2: the bus. You see how quickly the mountains drop off

766
00:39:55,989 --> 00:39:59,950
S2: into the Jordan Valley and how the vegetation just disappears.

767
00:40:00,550 --> 00:40:04,670
S2: Now look to your right. You're looking west toward the Mediterranean,

768
00:40:04,670 --> 00:40:06,549
S2: and you can see how green the hills are in

769
00:40:06,590 --> 00:40:10,460
S2: that direction. Warm, moist air from the Mediterranean rises as

770
00:40:10,460 --> 00:40:13,419
S2: it climbs the high hills in the center of the country,

771
00:40:13,420 --> 00:40:16,980
S2: and as it rises, it cools, providing life giving rain.

772
00:40:17,219 --> 00:40:19,739
S2: But once that air makes it over the Mount of Olives,

773
00:40:19,739 --> 00:40:23,780
S2: it drops 4000ft into the Jordan Valley. And as it sinks,

774
00:40:23,780 --> 00:40:27,380
S2: it heats up and hangs on to whatever moisture remains.

775
00:40:27,380 --> 00:40:30,419
S2: And that's why the view is so dramatic. Well, we've

776
00:40:30,420 --> 00:40:33,140
S2: reached our destination. Hop off the bus and follow me

777
00:40:33,140 --> 00:40:37,219
S2: to a quieter spot away from all these peddlers. Okay,

778
00:40:37,340 --> 00:40:41,180
S2: now you can relax. I want you to notice two things. First,

779
00:40:41,219 --> 00:40:44,219
S2: the Mount of Olives is really steep. I've walked up

780
00:40:44,219 --> 00:40:46,700
S2: and down this hill, and I'm glad we're walking down.

781
00:40:47,140 --> 00:40:50,180
S2: And second, notice how beautiful the view is of Jerusalem

782
00:40:50,180 --> 00:40:52,940
S2: from here. From this spot, it's easy to see why

783
00:40:52,940 --> 00:40:55,899
S2: the Mount of Olives played such a major role in

784
00:40:55,900 --> 00:41:00,540
S2: Jerusalem's history. This really is a place that exceeds expectations.

785
00:41:00,980 --> 00:41:02,860
S2: But now that we're here, I want us to focus

786
00:41:02,860 --> 00:41:07,170
S2: on an event that will someday definitely surpass all expectations.

787
00:41:07,450 --> 00:41:11,090
S2: It's found in the book of Zechariah starting in chapter 12.

788
00:41:11,130 --> 00:41:13,850
S2: The prophet describes a time when the nations of the

789
00:41:13,850 --> 00:41:17,290
S2: world will come against Jerusalem and Judah. The time he's

790
00:41:17,290 --> 00:41:19,770
S2: picturing is still future, and he describes it as a

791
00:41:19,770 --> 00:41:22,129
S2: time when God will come to the aid of his

792
00:41:22,130 --> 00:41:25,730
S2: people in a remarkable way. In fact, God vows to

793
00:41:25,770 --> 00:41:29,810
S2: destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem in that

794
00:41:29,810 --> 00:41:33,770
S2: amazing day. God won't just protect his people physically. He

795
00:41:33,770 --> 00:41:37,770
S2: also promises a spiritual transformation. And I will pour out

796
00:41:37,770 --> 00:41:41,050
S2: on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem,

797
00:41:41,090 --> 00:41:44,049
S2: the spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they

798
00:41:44,050 --> 00:41:46,290
S2: will look on me whom they've pierced, and they will

799
00:41:46,330 --> 00:41:49,130
S2: mourn for him as one mourns for an only son.

800
00:41:49,650 --> 00:41:52,049
S2: A day is coming when all Jerusalem will look to

801
00:41:52,090 --> 00:41:55,730
S2: heaven and realize the Messiah that they've longed for is

802
00:41:55,730 --> 00:41:59,210
S2: the one they rejected 2000 years ago. The one whose

803
00:41:59,210 --> 00:42:01,529
S2: hands and feet were pierced as he hung on the

804
00:42:01,530 --> 00:42:04,930
S2: cross to pay the penalty for their sins. In many ways,

805
00:42:04,930 --> 00:42:08,320
S2: I see this future event as the ultimate Yom Kippur.

806
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,560
S2: On Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, the blood of

807
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,759
S2: the sacrificial animal was sprinkled on the Mercy Seat in

808
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,440
S2: the Holy of Holies. God called on the people of

809
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,439
S2: Israel to humble their souls, as the High priest went

810
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,319
S2: in to make atonement on their behalf. It was a

811
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,279
S2: day of humility when the people acknowledged that because of

812
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,799
S2: their sin, blood had to be shed to satisfy the

813
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:34,080
S2: righteous demands of a holy God. Jesus offered his life

814
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,239
S2: as the ultimate sacrifice. But the vast majority of the

815
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:41,440
S2: Jewish people have not yet appropriated that sacrifice for themselves.

816
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,719
S2: They have not acknowledged Jesus as their Messiah and Savior.

817
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,440
S2: And that's what takes me back to the amazing Yom

818
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,080
S2: Kippur yet to come. Zechariah says, on that day they

819
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,839
S2: will look on me, whom they have pierced, and they

820
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,759
S2: will mourn for him as one mourns for an only son.

821
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,719
S2: On that day the Jewish people will see, understand, and

822
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:05,060
S2: respond to the one who was pierced for them, Zechariah

823
00:43:05,060 --> 00:43:08,259
S2: describes their response as one of mourning, a recognition that

824
00:43:08,260 --> 00:43:11,580
S2: they had gotten it so wrong for so long. But

825
00:43:11,580 --> 00:43:15,780
S2: I love what happens next. Chapter 13 begins with God's

826
00:43:15,780 --> 00:43:20,060
S2: gracious response to Israel's repentance. In that day, a fountain

827
00:43:20,060 --> 00:43:22,219
S2: will be opened for the house of David and for

828
00:43:22,219 --> 00:43:26,540
S2: the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for impurity. In

829
00:43:26,540 --> 00:43:29,899
S2: the ultimate Day of Atonement yet to come, God will

830
00:43:29,900 --> 00:43:32,980
S2: cleanse the people of their sin. This will be the

831
00:43:32,980 --> 00:43:36,580
S2: day when, as Paul says in Romans 11, all Israel

832
00:43:36,580 --> 00:43:40,339
S2: will be saved. But this amazing Yom Kippur yet to

833
00:43:40,340 --> 00:43:44,660
S2: come isn't over. Zechariah describes what will happen next. And

834
00:43:44,660 --> 00:43:46,779
S2: in that day, his feet will stand on the Mount

835
00:43:46,780 --> 00:43:49,739
S2: of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east,

836
00:43:49,739 --> 00:43:51,940
S2: and the Mount of Olives will be split in the middle,

837
00:43:51,940 --> 00:43:55,180
S2: from east to west, by a very large valley, so

838
00:43:55,180 --> 00:43:57,660
S2: that half the mountain will move toward the north and

839
00:43:57,660 --> 00:44:00,860
S2: the other half toward the south. Just think, the mountain

840
00:44:00,860 --> 00:44:04,930
S2: on which you're standing right now will someday split in two,

841
00:44:05,210 --> 00:44:07,930
S2: and it will happen the day Jesus returns to this

842
00:44:07,930 --> 00:44:12,250
S2: very hill from which he ascended to heaven. Yom Kippur

843
00:44:12,570 --> 00:44:16,009
S2: is the day the blood was applied. Zechariah pictures a

844
00:44:16,010 --> 00:44:19,290
S2: time in the future when the cleansing power of Jesus's

845
00:44:19,290 --> 00:44:22,649
S2: sacrificial death will be applied to a nation that will

846
00:44:22,650 --> 00:44:25,529
S2: turn its eyes to heaven and look on him whom

847
00:44:25,530 --> 00:44:28,970
S2: they've pierced. And in that remarkable time yet to come,

848
00:44:29,170 --> 00:44:33,009
S2: Jesus will return as King of kings and Lord of lords.

849
00:44:33,010 --> 00:44:36,330
S2: And a new permanent valley right through the Mount of

850
00:44:36,330 --> 00:44:40,089
S2: Olives will be a reminder of that amazing day. Now,

851
00:44:40,090 --> 00:44:42,890
S2: as we head to the bus, what truth can you

852
00:44:42,930 --> 00:44:46,250
S2: carry home from our time here on the Mount of Olives?

853
00:44:47,090 --> 00:44:51,410
S2: How about this? While Zechariah describes an ultimate day when

854
00:44:51,450 --> 00:44:54,570
S2: Israel will turn in faith to Jesus as their Messiah

855
00:44:54,570 --> 00:44:59,529
S2: and Savior, that same forgiveness and healing is available today

856
00:44:59,690 --> 00:45:03,839
S2: to anyone who's listening. Jesus died on the cross to

857
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,480
S2: pay the penalty for your sins. He paid a debt

858
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,680
S2: you could never pay. And to receive the forgiveness he offers,

859
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,359
S2: all you need to do is turn to him and

860
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,520
S2: accept by faith the payment he has already made. Wouldn't

861
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,440
S2: this be a great week to experience your own personal

862
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,320
S2: Day of Atonement? Why not place your trust in him

863
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:27,799
S2: right now?

864
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,879
S1: Charlie, somebody listening right now says, I'd like to place

865
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:32,640
S1: my trust in him. What do I do?

866
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,440
S2: Well, it begins by first acknowledging the facts of history.

867
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,160
S2: Jesus came. He was God's son. He came, lived a

868
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,160
S2: perfect life. But when he went to the cross, he

869
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,200
S2: didn't die for his own sins. He died for your sins.

870
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,120
S2: For my sins. And we know we're all sinners. So

871
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,640
S2: it comes by saying, Lord, I know I'm a sinner,

872
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:52,960
S2: and I believe your son came and died to pay

873
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,400
S2: the penalty for my sin. And now I want to

874
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,839
S2: put my trust for salvation in him. I can't work

875
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,029
S2: my way to heaven, but I believe he died to

876
00:46:01,070 --> 00:46:03,270
S2: pay that penalty. And I want to put my trust

877
00:46:03,270 --> 00:46:05,589
S2: in him as my Savior. Lord, forgive me of my

878
00:46:05,590 --> 00:46:08,430
S2: sins because of what Jesus did for me. I accept

879
00:46:08,430 --> 00:46:10,790
S2: him now as my Savior, my Lord. And I want

880
00:46:10,830 --> 00:46:12,190
S2: to put that trust in you.

881
00:46:12,670 --> 00:46:14,550
S1: And if you'd like to have a conversation with somebody

882
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:17,109
S1: right now and pray with someone now, you can do

883
00:46:17,110 --> 00:46:20,670
S1: that as you call eight, eight, eight. Need him. 888

884
00:46:20,750 --> 00:46:24,630
S1: need him. Our website is The Land and the book,

885
00:46:25,830 --> 00:46:27,870
S1: and we invite you to visit there because you can

886
00:46:27,870 --> 00:46:30,390
S1: connect with our podcast, a tool you can use to

887
00:46:30,430 --> 00:46:33,150
S1: enjoy the program yourself or share us with your friends.

888
00:46:33,350 --> 00:46:37,630
S1: That's the land and the books. Also guest information there.

889
00:46:38,030 --> 00:46:41,830
S1: Information about past programs, future programs, and more at the

890
00:46:41,830 --> 00:46:45,509
S1: land and the books. I want to say thanks to

891
00:46:45,510 --> 00:46:48,710
S1: our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, our producer, Dan Anderson. I'm

892
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:50,989
S1: John Geiger, and the land and the book is a

893
00:46:50,989 --> 00:46:54,910
S1: production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.