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S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4: The Americans worshiping government over God?
S3: Extremely rare safety move by a nation.
S5: 17 years. The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S3: This is not.
S1: Hi friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall.
S1: I am thrilled we're going to spend this hour together. Okay.
S1: We're going to think critically and biblically. And what do
S1: I always say after I make that declaration? That is
S1: not a multiple choice test. It's not an either or.
S1: It is a both. And you come to faith in
S1: Jesus Christ. Your heart is transformed, but your mind is renewed.
S1: You're a different person. And I've made the declaration before,
S1: and I think so many of you would have to
S1: agree that coming to faith in Jesus Christ is like
S1: stepping out of a black and white movie into Technicolor,
S1: and you suddenly start looking at the world around you.
S1: And yes, we are east of Eden and the world
S1: is turned upside down and good is called evil. Evil
S1: is called good. And yet man's doing what's right in
S1: his own eyes. But in the midst of all of that,
S1: Romans reminds us, we're without excuse because God's presence is
S1: made manifest. He is everywhere. The heavens declare the glory.
S1: Had the privilege of sitting on my front porch this
S1: weekend during a torrential rainstorm. And it was precious. It
S1: was profound. It was just me, the Lord, and the rain.
S1: And I thanked him for the rain. And I thought
S1: of all the Bible verses that talk about the rain.
S1: And as I was talking to my Heavenly Father in
S1: this wonderful language between two people who love each other,
S1: one loves unconditionally and eternally, the other trying to learn
S1: to do just that. Suddenly the rain stopped, the clouds parted,
S1: and just like a painting, shafts of light came through
S1: and just illuminated my front yard, made me get teary eyed.
S1: And then I thought, oh God, it's such a creative God.
S1: I mean, when you think about it, why do we
S1: need four seasons? Why do we have a sky that
S1: changes colors? Why in the fall does it take your
S1: breath away. Why? When we look up in a summer
S1: sky and we see all the stars. Does it take
S1: our breath away? God is the creator. And he reminds
S1: us that he's such. By having us look at the
S1: world around us. And does it surprise you then, from
S1: a God who said, don't frustrate your children, that he
S1: would make so many of his children creative, not only
S1: for their own edification, by the way, but for their
S1: opportunity to glorify God in their creativity. So there's all
S1: kinds of ways to honor God in our creativity. C.S.
S1: Lewis said, God loves creativity. He created the whole universe
S1: and every part of it is beautiful. How beautifully said.
S1: It was interesting too, because when you look at what
S1: Michelangelo said, he said, the greatest danger for most of
S1: us is not that our aim is too high and
S1: we miss it, but that it's too low and we
S1: reach it. Victor Hugo said to create is to be
S1: like God. Ephesians 210 said, we are God's workmanship, created
S1: in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared
S1: in advance for us to do. We're going to talk
S1: about creativity this hour and ownership. And all of this
S1: emanates from a brilliant book entitled To Invent Is Divine.
S1: The author is Doctor James Edwards. He is founder and
S1: CEO of Elite Strategic Services, LLC. He consults on intellectual property,
S1: or IP, as it's known in the biz, antitrust health policy.
S1: He plays leadership and strategic and advisory roles on IP,
S1: particularly patents. He was selected in 1998 as a Lincoln
S1: Fellow of the Claremont Institute, and was awarded an Eagle
S1: Award in 2017 by Eagle Forum Education and Legal Defense Fund.
S1: He is a proud citizen of the great state of
S1: South Carolina. Doctor Edwards, what a joy to have you
S1: join me this hour. And I'm absolutely fascinated by this topic.
S1: And I'll tell you why, because I've talked often on
S1: this program. In fact, we have a guest on regularly
S1: who teaches us how to pray for those who are
S1: in the arts. So often we abandon because so much
S1: of what is created in a post-Christian world is anathema
S1: to having that reflection of God as the creator. In fact,
S1: it's almost an act of rebellion against the creator. But
S1: I have yet to read anybody who's written about the
S1: linkage between creativity and intellectual property. I stopped before I
S1: read the book, and I thought, I never thought about that.
S1: But it is a form of creativity. So I have
S1: to ask you, with your background and all the work
S1: that you do on intellectual property, etc., where did you
S1: start to born to this idea that there is really
S1: a linkage between our relationship with the Lord as creator
S1: and our ability to create?
S6: First, Janet, let me thank you so much for having
S6: me on with you. It's such an honor and a privilege. So, um,
S6: I can't thank you enough. Um, the origin of this journey,
S6: I'll call. It was an invitation to a speech. I've.
S6: I've been a Christian as far back as I can remember. Um,
S6: never doubted Scripture or the, uh, Um, the fact of
S6: God and and Jesus Christ and accepted him early, uh,
S6: as my Savior and then went to work on Capitol Hill,
S6: where I, among other issues I was asked to handle,
S6: included patents and intellectual property issues as a policy matter,
S6: a legislative matter. And so that was my introduction to it, really.
S6: And that's that's the formation. And then leading to the
S6: thesis of the book and so forth, was an invitation
S6: to give a speech. One of the organizations I worked with,
S6: you named it Eagle Forum Education Legal Defense Fund. Um,
S6: I was at a meeting of their leaders in 2019
S6: and their Texas leader and I got talking about intellectual
S6: property and in what Phyllis Schlafly gave a hoot about
S6: patents and, and, um, so she got interested and invited
S6: me to come give a speech on patents from a
S6: biblical perspective and orientation at her church. And so I
S6: did later that year. And, um, when I got back
S6: to Washington, I told a friend how it went, uh,
S6: went well. The event was pretty well attended, had like
S6: 80 people or so. And, um, I said patents more
S6: than once and nobody's eyes glazed over. So that was
S6: a good sign. And then he said, well, why don't
S6: you turn the speech into a book? So that that
S6: was the launch of this, this journey.
S1: Wow. Well, it's interesting. And the fact that nobody's eyes
S1: glazed over tells me immediately, Doctor Edwards, that people were
S1: resonating with what you had to say. And I think
S1: part of it is because I think you are so
S1: unique in having made the linkage when we think of creativity,
S1: it's the performing arts. It's painting, it's music, it's photography,
S1: it's writing a play. But the idea of inventing I've not.
S1: And yet it is creating, is it not? Because you
S1: are in some respects making something ex nihilo? It wasn't
S1: there before. It's so unique that, in fact, you have
S1: to knock on the doors of government to say, I'd
S1: like you to protect this idea, my intellectual property, and
S1: I want you to give me a patent so that
S1: it cannot be taken by another person. And I was
S1: thinking also when I was reading your book, Doctor Edwards,
S1: how often Paul says don't build on another man's work.
S1: There's a verse, by the way, for protection, for intellectual property.
S1: We're just getting started on what I think is a
S1: fascinating subject. And what it'll do is it'll get you
S1: to think bigger and deeper and more broadly about creativity,
S1: but particularly as we see the launch of AI and
S1: all kinds of new technologies, is that an opportunity for
S1: us to flourish and to create fascinating book is called
S1: to Invent is Divine back after this. So many in
S1: our culture today are spiritually curious but hesitant about religion.
S1: That's why I've chosen. Have you ever wondered, is this
S1: month's truth to explore how everyday experiences might be the
S1: signpost pointing to deeper biblical truths? As for your copy
S1: of have you ever wondered when you give a gift
S1: of any amount to in the market, call eight 7758.
S1: That's eight 7758 or go to in the market with
S1: Janet Parshall. What a privilege to spend the hour with
S1: Doctor James Edwards. He is the author of the new
S1: book to invent is Divine Creativity and Ownership. And this
S1: is a man who has long been involved with the
S1: issues of intellectual property and patents. And again, you know,
S1: there's a whole section of the law, by the way,
S1: and it's, um, it's arduous by design, but it's necessary.
S1: And so linking that to creativity is, for me personally,
S1: something I never thought about before. And yet when you
S1: think about people inventing and all of the great inventions
S1: out there that have changed our lives forever, why would
S1: we not want to protect that? And is that not?
S1: I mean, yes, that's on a on a temporal plane,
S1: but on an eternal plane. Is not that kind of
S1: creativity reflective of who God is? And that's why the
S1: declaration is made in the title to Invent is Divine. So,
S1: Doctor Edwards, I think it would be great for our friends.
S1: In fact, I I'd love to talk about the false
S1: tension that exists between faith and reason or religion and science.
S1: It doesn't exist. The great leaders of of science have
S1: for years and decades, millennia, more to the point, have
S1: been people who believed in God because they couldn't help
S1: but look around and see form and order and substance
S1: and think there had to be a divine creator out there.
S1: But when you look at also some of those same people,
S1: they were people who very often had multiple, not single,
S1: multiple patents as they were inventing. So do a little
S1: history for us. We'd love to hear some of the
S1: great inventors were and some of their inventions.
S6: Well, there were many that we've never heard of. There
S6: are a few relative few whom we have heard. And
S6: of course, one being Samuel Morse. Samuel Morse invented the telegraph,
S6: as you know. And he was kind of unique because
S6: he was he started out as a painter. He was
S6: an artist. He made a living for a while off
S6: of painting portraits, and he traveled around and painted people's portraits. Uh, he, um,
S6: then came up with the idea of the, the invention
S6: of the telegraph. And it was applying electromagnetism Magnetism through
S6: a single wire to communicate and just. He spent the
S6: rest of his his career. In commercializing that invention. That
S6: is to say, taking it to market. So he proved
S6: the concept. You recall that the at the U.S. Capitol, he, uh,
S6: set up a wire between Washington and Baltimore, and he
S6: communicated a message in Morse code. Uh, and that message was,
S6: what hath God wrought? And he communicated that in his
S6: his colleague, who was stationed at the receiving end in Baltimore,
S6: sent back the same message to demonstrate that it had
S6: been received. And this worked. So then he he built
S6: a business, built businesses around the The Telegraph. It was
S6: so impactful that it. It ensconced him in the middle
S6: of a portrait that's or a painting that's got like
S6: 19 famous inventors of the 19th century. And Maurice is
S6: sitting in the middle of the table and everybody's looking
S6: at his telegraph, and that's in the Smithsonian. And then
S6: you look in the Capital Dome, the U.S. Capitol, and
S6: there's the apotheosis of Washington picture painted there. Well, off
S6: to the side in the clouds, there is the image
S6: of of Samuel Morse. I mean, this guy, he was like,
S6: think of whoever the the greatest inventor of our time, uh,
S6: who ever that may be probably the guy who invented the, uh, uh,
S6: the the artificial heart or something like that, you know. Um,
S6: or the latest cancer immunotherapy or something. But I that's
S6: the kind of chronic inventor that that, uh, really is
S6: sort of, uh, representative of, of American invention at its
S6: heyday when we had a gold standard patent system. And
S6: you've got Thomas Edison. He had almost 100 patents. I mean,
S6: that's a lot of invention. Now, he he's credited with
S6: inventing the way to invent the model for inventing, which
S6: was his Menlo Park research and development, uh, facility. And
S6: he had a whole team of people helping him. His.
S6: His assistant, Charles Batchelor, is the one who was trying
S6: out different materials to be a filament in the light bulb,
S6: for instance. And once they came up with one that
S6: extended the the time that the bulb would, would burn
S6: before it expired, uh, they got something that made sense because,
S6: you know, at first the filaments were they they didn't
S6: last very long. Like we're talking minutes. So. So you
S6: got to go farther than that to make it practical. So, uh,
S6: all those kinds of things, um, and those are some
S6: of the inventors, the Wright brothers. The Wright brothers are
S6: interesting in that, um, that there's there's one instance I
S6: report on in the, in the book and that is,
S6: is Wilbur is standing back in Dayton with at that
S6: their bicycle shop and he's talking to a customer. He
S6: just sold a bicycle inner tube of this tire. And
S6: so Wilbur had taken it out and handed it to
S6: him and all that. And he started just talking with
S6: and chatting with the, the customer and kind of without
S6: realizing it, bending the the flimsy box that had come in.
S6: And then it occurred to him, you know, that's what
S6: we can use as, as the means of, of adjusting
S6: our steering, steering our wings.
S1: So that gave birth to the idea. And the rest,
S1: as they say, is flying history. You talk about several
S1: inventors in the book, which I found absolutely fascinating in
S1: and of itself. And you break the book up into
S1: several parts. When we come back, I'm going to talk
S1: about that, and then I'm going to move into this
S1: concept of ownership. Creativity is one thing. Do we create
S1: to give it away? And how does. In God's economy,
S1: how does ownership work? Doctor James Edwards is our guest.
S1: His brand new book is called To Invent is Divine
S1: Creativity and Ownership. Back after this. We're spending the hour
S1: with Doctor James Edwards, who is the founder and CEO
S1: of Elite Strategic Services. He consults on intellectual property, antitrust
S1: and health policy. And he's got a brand new book
S1: out called To Invent Is Divine Creativity and Ownership. And
S1: I noted just before the break that the book is
S1: divided into three sections. The first is about creativity, and
S1: it's really marvelously, theologically rich about this idea that we are,
S1: if we're made in his image, Imago Dei, it makes
S1: perfect sense that we would reflect who he is, not
S1: by accident, but by divine purpose, by the way. And
S1: we are the only part of God's creation that is
S1: made in his image. And so there is a hierarchy.
S1: Human exceptionalism is a very important term. The second part
S1: of the book is about ownership, and I'm going to
S1: get into that in a minute. And the last part
S1: is the patent ecosystem and how difficult it is or
S1: should be to get a patent in today's age. But
S1: let me go to this idea, and I think this
S1: is the most challenging part, Doctor Edwards, because if someone paints,
S1: I mean Michelangelo, for example. So he had patrons and
S1: people would pay, Rembrandt would have patrons, and they would
S1: pay him to paint something. So in essence, there was
S1: an ownership, but it wasn't of the artist himself. He
S1: was paid to, to do, to produce a kind of
S1: a product, and he let it go. Now he can
S1: be remembered forever in the halls of some European art museum,
S1: but the ownership is transferred to the person who buys
S1: the piece of art. When you get into intellectual property,
S1: because it's an idea, it's a concept, Lord willing, it
S1: grows into something you can put your hands on, i.e.
S1: an invention. But this idea of ownership is different because,
S1: particularly for the believer, if you start with a biblio
S1: centric worldview, where does ownership fit in? Because you write
S1: an entire chapter called God the Owner. Talk to me
S1: about that.
S6: Well, if you, as you would know well, um, about
S6: as often as you see God's the Creator throughout Scripture,
S6: from Genesis to Revelation and it's, you know, it's the purpose,
S6: the main point of the sentence, or it's just a
S6: throwaway parenthetical phrase, you know, stuck in there. God who
S6: created the heavens and the earth, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. Um,
S6: and the same thing is true of ownership. God owns
S6: the cattle on a thousand hills. Um, he he is
S6: the the creator and owner of everything that has been made. Um. Jesus, John. Uh,
S6: chapter one, gospel of John, chapter one, and it talks
S6: about in the beginning was the word, and the word
S6: Jesus was with God, and the word was God, and
S6: all things were made by him. And without him was
S6: not anything made that was made. And then you get to, um,
S6: the fact that God claims ownership of every single thing, uh,
S6: and all of this is, is throughout Scripture. Um, but
S6: ownership is the natural. It's demonstrated by those scriptures where
S6: it talks about God owning his creation. That is the
S6: natural consequence of having been creative, having created something you're creative.
S6: For for humans, obviously, we can't create out of, uh,
S6: ex nihilo from nothing, but we can use the natural, uh, Um, materials,
S6: the things that God has put before us and applying
S6: our abilities, our thought, our reason, our observation, all those
S6: kinds of of of facets to bear on solving a problem,
S6: on making an improvement to something that already exists. You know,
S6: here's one broom. And okay, I can make a better
S6: design of that, you know, or here's a one, uh, uh, Clipper.
S6: I can make a better design of that. You know,
S6: you have ideas to improve things, but the fact of
S6: intellectual property and ownership is you are creating property that
S6: did not previously exist. So, you know, granting the occasions
S6: when it's you've assigned the rights of ownership to somebody
S6: else because they're paying you in the lab and you're
S6: an employee, and it's really all happening. You're able to
S6: do that because of the resources provided through the employment
S6: or as you mentioned, the commissioning of a work. Um,
S6: but ownership is the natural consequence of having created something.
S6: And so if you own it, you have just as
S6: God does. Um, this this brings up the the metaphor
S6: that I cite in the book as well, the Potter
S6: and the Clay.
S1: Um.
S6: You know, um, God uses that image to tell us that,
S6: you know, he makes human beings and, you know, different
S6: people in his divine sovereignty makes those decisions. Who's going
S6: to be the ruler of, you know, Siam, who's going
S6: to be the ruler of, uh, of the United States.
S6: And who's going to be, um, be the doctor who
S6: cures cancer. You know, all these sorts of things. He's
S6: the one who makes those purposes, uh, decided, uh, and
S6: in the same way we as human beings are able
S6: to decide what to make, how to make it, and
S6: what to do with it, what its purpose is. So
S6: we we have agency over what we create, and ownership
S6: is a critical part of that.
S1: And coming up to a break, and you took me
S1: exactly where I wanted to go, because when we come back,
S1: let me play the role of the skeptic for a minute.
S1: I'm loving what you're saying. But let me just to
S1: help fine tune our apologetic on this, let me push
S1: back and ask to look at this in a different way.
S1: So this idea of ownership ex-nihilo making something that wasn't
S1: there before and now protecting it for its use, that's
S1: what we're talking about right now. All of this emanating
S1: from the new book by Doctor Edwards called To Invent
S1: is Divine Creativity and Ownership. And that's really what the
S1: book is all about. The linkage between creativity and ownership
S1: makes perfect sense, does it not, from a man who
S1: is an expert in intellectual property? So we've got lots
S1: to talk about. Stick with us. By the way, if
S1: you're interested in a copy of this book, if this
S1: really is fire in your bones on this topic, go
S1: to the website in the market with Janet parshall.org. Click
S1: on the red box. It says Program Details and audio.
S1: It'll take you to the information page. I've got a
S1: link you can click on through to figure out how
S1: to get your copy back after this. Tired of the endless,
S1: biased spin you hear on mainstream media and in the market,
S1: we're using God's Word as our guide as we examine
S1: today's events, and we want you to be informed and
S1: bold about his truth. This is a listener supported program,
S1: so if you value what you hear and you want
S1: us to continue on your station, become a partial partner
S1: with your monthly support, call eight 7758. That's eight 7758
S1: or go online to in the end the market with
S1: Janet Parshall. Doctor James Edwards is with us. He is
S1: founder and CEO of Elite Strategic Services. He consults on
S1: intellectual property, antitrust and health policy. He plays leadership, strategic
S1: and advisory roles on intellectual property, particularly in the area
S1: of patents, which comes through loud and clear in his
S1: new book. He was selected as a 1998 Lincoln Fellow
S1: at the Claremont Institute, and was awarded an Eagle Award
S1: in 2017 by Eagle Forum Education and Legal Defense Fund.
S1: His brand new book is called To Invent is Divine
S1: Creativity and Ownership, and it's the ownership part that we've
S1: landed on right now. So, Doctor Edwards, let me and again,
S1: I'm doing this just to help us to think more
S1: critically and biblically. So you talked about the ownership. So
S1: someone comes up with an idea. And by the way,
S1: in the section on the creators, you talk about literally
S1: how often creators believe that they got divine inspiration from
S1: the Lord to create something. And the outcome of the
S1: invention in the invention helps our fellow man. So there's
S1: a flourishing aspect to that we can get into later.
S1: That's extremely important. But God owns it all, and you
S1: do a wonderful job biblically pointing out all the fact
S1: that it's all the Lord. So in truth, we are
S1: nothing but stewards. We're not owners, we're stewards. We come
S1: in empty handed. We leave empty handed. We steward the
S1: blessings that God has brought into our life, all of them,
S1: our family, our finances. And yes, even it seems to me,
S1: our creativity. So here's the question to help us think.
S1: So if we were going to be and I'm going
S1: to use these words purposely, Christ like, and I invent something,
S1: why would I want a patent? Why wouldn't I just
S1: give it away for the better use of humankind and
S1: not have ownership and or restrictions within the parameters of
S1: a patent? Why wouldn't I just give it away? Wouldn't
S1: that be the quote Christ like thing to do?
S6: Well, that's certainly your prerogative. As the owner of it.
S6: You can are free to give it away. However, the
S6: default setting is ownership and if it is to be
S6: made something practical and applied broadly, that is to say, commercialized.
S6: Then you have to have something, some tangible basis for um,
S6: for attracting investment to do so. To build a company
S6: around it, to get somebody to manufacture it, to get
S6: somebody to produce it, getting somebody to distribute it. Um,
S6: all of those parts won't happen if you simply give
S6: the invention away without, uh, when it's simply just the patent.
S6: The reason is because of the lack of certainty that
S6: you have control. And that's what the patent does. It
S6: secures rights just like your deed on your home. If
S6: you cannot keep someone from squatting on your property. You
S6: have no secure rights in that property. And that's the
S6: very same thing with intellectual property. You have to have secure, uh, dependable,
S6: enforceable rights. And that is, is the the only thing
S6: that will enable someone to basically not, not monopolize as such,
S6: but to cooperate, collaborate with others to bring it into
S6: something that is useful beyond simply a very small group
S6: of people.
S1: Yeah, I'm very satisfied with that answer. Inherent in what
S1: you're saying is the idea that you protect and shepherd
S1: the idea that the Lord has given you, i.e., whatever
S1: it is you invent, that you're getting patent. Because particularly
S1: for believers now, the world is going to look at
S1: this differently. But as believers, it's like, okay, what can
S1: I do to help my fellow man flourish? If I
S1: just give this away, the idea could die in the cradle.
S1: I don't get very far with the idea of helping
S1: this idea to grow and to help other people. What
S1: about the people who push back and say, oh, but
S1: it's really about making money. You patent it. You're the
S1: one that pockets the gold. Is that a bad thing?
S6: Well, if if you if you think that the having
S6: the means to help other people, giving more to your church,
S6: more to ministries, more to the poor, um, then you
S6: need to have more to give. Where's that going to
S6: come from? It's the fruits of your labor. And that
S6: brings me to the another biblical metaphor that's central in this,
S6: in the book and in this very subject is the
S6: vine and the fig tree. That's the fruits of one's
S6: labor are owned by the owner of the property. Who
S6: who stewards, let's use that word, uh, that property into
S6: growing vine. Growing a fig tree. And this is the picture,
S6: the image of the owner at the end of the day,
S6: resting in the shade of the vine and enjoying the
S6: fruit of the vine and fig tree without a threat.
S6: It's secure. It's peace, it's enjoyment. It's it's the fruits
S6: of one's labor. And I mean, that is not only
S6: in the Bible, it's also John Locke. It's the Founding Fathers,
S6: it's Lincoln. Abe Lincoln is the only president to own
S6: a patent and be an inventor. Um, said that the
S6: fuel of interest is joined to the fire of genius.
S6: That's fuel of interest is ownership. It's the ability to
S6: make to to make money out of what you make.
S6: And other people benefit from having that invention to put
S6: to use for themselves.
S1: Mm. Excellent. Okay, so now you took me where I
S1: wanted to go on the issue of patents. So let me, in.
S6: Fact, this.
S1: Yes. You are. You're very good at this. So you
S1: have a quote from Abraham Lincoln, which I bet most
S1: people listening didn't know that Lincoln had a patent. I'm
S1: going to get emails if I don't ask, what did
S1: he get the patent for?
S6: It was a device for passing over shoals in rivers
S6: and streams.
S1: Interesting. Was that something.
S6: Enabling boats to get over shoals?
S1: Did that happen when he was Abe Lincoln in Illinois
S1: or when he was in a presidential mode?
S6: No, when he was in Illinois.
S1: I wanted rather busy being president, but that's an absolutely
S1: fascinating idea. And you include a quote from Lincoln, the
S1: patent system, this is Lincoln talking, added the fuel of
S1: interest to the fire of genius in the discovery and
S1: production of new and useful things. I think that's absolutely brilliant.
S1: So let me go back, because if Lincoln was talking
S1: about patterns, that tells thinking people that patterns were around
S1: in the 1800s, how far back in the United States
S1: do patterns go?
S6: Well, they go back to colonial times. The the colonies
S6: and then the states. Uh, after we were independent, um,
S6: and during the time of the Articles of Confederation, even the,
S6: the first state patents was like 1780, I believe. And
S6: that was in South Carolina. Yes. My home state happens
S6: to happens to be the leader on the patent system. Uh,
S6: and one of our signers of the Constitution, Charles Pinckney, was,
S6: was instrumental working with James Madison at the constitutional Convention
S6: to add article one, section eight, clause eight, which is
S6: the the passage that enables Congress to pass laws for
S6: patents and copyrights.
S1: Wow. That says so many things. First of all, even
S1: if you're not interested in American jurisprudence or constitutional law
S1: or the writings of the Founding Fathers in their birthing
S1: of this new nation, they knew that creativity had to
S1: be encouraged and protected. I think that says something significant
S1: that early on in our beginnings, we would somehow want
S1: to make sure that the right to be able to
S1: preserve ideas would be there in this new nation. But again,
S1: they would have seen that all over the European continent.
S1: That shouldn't have been a surprise to them. Correct?
S6: That's true. But the the non-European factor in there is
S6: that they were all, uh, born and raised in a
S6: society that was biblically literate, was heavily affected by the
S6: great awakening of like 25 to 30 year long nationwide
S6: colony wide. Religious revival. And George Whitefield. Jonathan Edwards I said, James,
S6: because that's my name. Edwards. Jonathan Edwards, no relation. And
S6: others were going up and down the continent, the Atlantic coast,
S6: preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it was an
S6: outpouring of the Holy Spirit that brought many, many, many
S6: people to Christ. It increased biblical literacy and improved the
S6: spiritual life of the United States. What became the United States?
S6: The then the colonists? Yeah.
S1: You know, wouldn't it be interesting?
S6: That's what affected them. They knew the Bible. Exactly. That's
S6: why George Washington and others quoted from it frequently in
S6: their their correspondence and otherwise.
S1: I don't know if anyone's ever done this study. Doctor Edwards,
S1: but wouldn't it be fascinating if you followed what happened
S1: during the Great Awakenings and whether or not, at the
S1: same time, we saw an uptick in the numbers of
S1: new inventions or requests for patents? In other words, is
S1: there a parallel between a spiritual awakening and a stirring
S1: of creativity?
S6: That's a great question. I'm not aware of it, but, um,
S6: you know, I hadn't read every single book on patents
S6: just yet. I'm working on.
S7: It. Probably close to it nonetheless, which is fascinating.
S1: All right. So now, because it's part and I love
S1: the history and there's so much more in the book.
S1: By the way, friends, again, the book is called to
S1: invent is Divine creativity and Ownership. Now, take me to
S1: the present day because someone might be listening right now
S1: is going, I got this great idea, I would know
S1: where to begin. How hard is it to get a
S1: patent today? And you're hearing the music play. Let me. see,
S1: let me stop. You don't mean to be rude, but
S1: I don't want to have to interrupt you. I'll leave
S1: the question hanging. So for those of you who have
S1: a great idea sitting on that shelf in your mind,
S1: and you'd love to be able to patent it, but
S1: you don't have a clue how you do that. I
S1: have a feeling Doctor Edwards is going to know how
S1: to do it. He talks about this and a whole
S1: lot more. The linkage between creativity and ownership. Ownership then,
S1: portends this question of intellectual property and the preservation of
S1: your creativity through a patent. Really never thought about this before.
S1: God is everywhere, even in the world of inventing. Book
S1: is absolutely fascinating. Doctor James Edwards is the author. Will
S1: take a break. We'll get an answer to that question,
S1: to how hard is it to get a patent when
S1: we return? To invent is Divine Creativity and Ownership. Brand
S1: new book by Doctor James Edwards who just knows so
S1: much about intellectual property and patents. And that's exactly where
S1: we went just before the break. And again, thank you,
S1: Doctor Edwards, for understanding the tyranny of the clock in radio.
S1: So I didn't want to interrupt you as you got
S1: into your answer. So the question and I know I
S1: had people lean closer because I bet there are great
S1: inventors within our listening audience. How difficult is it to
S1: get a patent?
S6: Well, it's it's not easy. I mean, they make it
S6: where you have to have something that is, you know,
S6: qualifies to be patented, and then it's examined for specific things.
S6: How is it useful, i.e. does it solve a problem,
S6: a specific problem? Um, and is it a novel? That is.
S6: Is it new? It, it it may work, but it's
S6: not new. Then it's not patentable. And then there's a
S6: funny term called non-obvious, which is kind of hard to
S6: explain briefly, but it's it's essentially something that is is
S6: unique to the examiner. Being so knowledgeable on that subject
S6: matter would have figured it out based on what was
S6: the state of the art at the time, the patent
S6: the invention was made?
S1: Is this all done? I'm going to say in paperwork,
S1: but that just dates me immediately. Can you do this
S1: all online? Do you have to appear before someone and
S1: show your invention?
S6: You don't have to appear. Um, some prefer to have
S6: a meeting with the examiner. Um, if usually it's virtual
S6: these days. But, uh, a lot of it's done electronically,
S6: of course. Um, but it's it's you have to have
S6: the someone draft the patent who puts it into the proper, um.
S6: Arrangement of things. You have to have certain patent claims.
S6: So crafting the description of the patent is, is something
S6: that the inventor is likely to be able to do best.
S6: But to draft the claims, those are very specific, very
S6: particular and legal in nature. So you're you're drawing up
S6: a legal document effectively and need someone who's knowledgeable about
S6: the patent application system. Um, to do that part on
S6: your own would be, um, a more it would be
S6: riskier than doing doing it, biting the bullet and hiring
S6: a patent attorney.
S1: Exactly right. And for people who haven't figured it out,
S1: this topic is loaded with lawyers. In fact, I was
S1: thinking when you were talking about the review, one of
S1: the things has to be that you didn't steal somebody
S1: else's idea that a patent isn't being granted to something
S1: that's already been invented, and that would take time and research,
S1: it seems to me.
S6: Exactly. They they do a prior the examiners. Well, the
S6: patent lawyer for you. Uh, but then also the patent examiners,
S6: they search what's called the prior art, all the art
S6: that became before in that area, that technology. And so, uh,
S6: they do try to ascertain what is and what is
S6: not out there, um, as, as quite broadly. And, um,
S6: and so that that's something that has to be, be, uh,
S6: to their satisfaction, um, the case that it is unique.
S1: From start to finish. And this is a broad question,
S1: so forgive me, but on average, how long does it
S1: take for someone to get a patent? And I would
S1: imagine it's idea predicated if you have a simple idea,
S1: maybe not as long as a more complex idea.
S6: Yes. And you'll forgive me for not, um, recalling the
S6: overall average, But to your point, that is exactly right.
S6: If it's if it's a simple, straightforward, um, invention, it's
S6: not going to take nearly as long as if you
S6: were inventing something like a new cancer drug or something.
S6: Those things really take take a while. Uh, or something
S6: that's at the cutting edge, like a new, um, semiconductor
S6: or something.
S1: Yeah. Wow. And again, I'm thinking of not someone who
S1: works at some major plant where all they do is
S1: come up with creative ideas. I'm talking about the person
S1: who's got it sitting in the garage, and they're thinking, gosh,
S1: if I could just get this idea out there. So
S1: there's going to be legal hoops, there's going to be paperwork,
S1: you're going to have to fill things out. It's going
S1: to take time for all the reasons you just said.
S1: Does it take money to get a patent?
S6: Yes. There are fees associated with it. But, um, a
S6: good chunk of change will be going toward the, uh,
S6: the attorney who helps you through that whole process. And
S6: it's an extended process. So, um, they're they're doing their
S6: due diligence at the patent office. The government's job is
S6: to ascertain that this is, in fact, new property that
S6: did not previously exist, and also to determine the metes
S6: and bounds, the boundary lines of that property. So it's
S6: a it's a it's a complicated, uh, you know, takes
S6: takes a while for the examination to, to, to take
S6: place regardless of the sophistication of the invention.
S1: Um.
S6: You know, that's mean, you know, a fair amount of change,
S6: some sums going to be, uh, much more expensive because
S6: of the, the iterations it has to go through in
S6: terms of answering questions back and forth and all this. Else.
S1: So that raises the question of stifling creativity. And you
S1: talk about the fact that there have been some legal
S1: developments that really force a separation between the two things
S1: that you've linked together creativity and ownership. What is causing
S1: a wedge between those two?
S6: Well, as I as I indicated, the the, the Founding
S6: Fathers essentially put in place a patent system that for
S6: about 200 years stood the test of time and became
S6: the world's gold standard. It moved the United States from
S6: a backwater, an agrarian society, into the world's leading industrial
S6: and innovative power. So it worked for a long time.
S6: And what has happened is a number of legal challenges
S6: and legal opinions, a lot of legislation weakening patents, taking,
S6: patent rights, making them tenuous, attenuated as opposed to secure.
S1: Yeah, that sort of defeats the whole purpose, does it not? Well,
S1: Doctor Edwards, absolutely fascinating. I feel, in truth, that I've
S1: just barely scratched the surface, but I hope I've planted
S1: a seed of curiosity in the hearts and minds of
S1: those who really celebrate the fact that God has made
S1: him creative. Maybe even have an idea that you would
S1: love to see patent and you understand that is not
S1: by accident. There's really divine inspiration there that this is
S1: God making you creative, which reflects his glory, by the way.
S1: And in so doing, perhaps what you're thinking about inventing
S1: or on the cusp of getting a patent helps your
S1: fellow man flourish as well. So God's in it all,
S1: is he not? I bet you didn't think about this
S1: before today. And if you want to think about it more,
S1: and I want you to get a copy of Doctor
S1: Edwards brand new book to invent his divine creativity and ownership.
S1: I've got it linked to my information page. Doctor Edwards,
S1: thank you for a memorable conversation. Thank you friends. We'll
S1: see you next time on In the Market with Janet Parshall.