WEBVTT - Hour 1: To Invent Is Divine 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.800 Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:06.920 and I truly hope you hear something that edifies encourage, equips, enlightens, 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:09.520 and then gets you out there in the marketplace of ideas. 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:11.440 But before you go, I want to tell you about 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.680 this month's truth tool. It's called Have You Ever Wondered? 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:17.720 And I absolutely love this topic because if you're like me, 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:19.600 going out into the night sky and looking up and 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.439 seeing a million stars, don't you just stop and think 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:24.560 about God? And are you not in a moment of 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:27.960 awe and wonder or looking out over the vast expanse 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:30.600 of an ocean and you start thinking, what is man, 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:32.800 that thou art mindful of him? And it makes you 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:36.240 wonder about the magnificence of God? I think that sense 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.480 of wonder was put there on purpose, and this wonderful 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.720 book includes a composite of multiple authors who have written 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.879 from their perspective as a scientist, or a historian, or 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:49.160 a mathematician or an artist, on why they all have 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:51.599 this sense of awe through the work that they do. 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:54.120 In other words, the heavens declare the glory. And as 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:56.440 it tells us in Romans, we are really without excuse 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:00.170 because his handiwork is everywhere. And this book invites you 0:01:00.170 --> 0:01:03.530 to walk through the chapters written by people who all 0:01:03.530 --> 0:01:06.290 have a sense of awe and wonder when it comes 0:01:06.290 --> 0:01:09.090 to God through their various disciplines in life. It's an 0:01:09.090 --> 0:01:11.410 amazing book and it's yours. For a gift of any amount. 0:01:11.410 --> 0:01:16.250 Just call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58. Ask 0:01:16.250 --> 0:01:19.130 for a copy of Have You Ever Wondered? And we'll 0:01:19.130 --> 0:01:20.410 send it right off to you as my way of 0:01:20.410 --> 0:01:22.930 saying thank you, because we are listener supported radio. Or 0:01:22.930 --> 0:01:24.929 you can go online to in the market with Janet 0:01:24.930 --> 0:01:28.690 Parshall and you're also on the website, consider becoming a 0:01:28.690 --> 0:01:31.410 partial partner. Those are people who give every single month 0:01:31.410 --> 0:01:33.490 at a level of their own choosing. You always get 0:01:33.490 --> 0:01:35.410 the truth tool, but in addition to that, you get 0:01:35.410 --> 0:01:38.209 a weekly newsletter that includes my writing and an audio 0:01:38.209 --> 0:01:42.370 piece just for my partial partners. So 877 Janet 58 0:01:42.370 --> 0:01:46.050 or the website in the market with Janet Parshall. Consider 0:01:46.050 --> 0:01:49.290 becoming a partial partner or asking for this month's truth tool. 0:01:49.290 --> 0:01:53.090 Have you ever wondered? And now please enjoy the broadcast. 0:01:53.730 --> 0:01:55.210 Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 0:01:55.530 --> 0:01:57.810 The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 0:01:57.860 --> 0:01:59.980 The Americans worshiping government over God? 0:02:00.380 --> 0:02:02.820 Extremely rare safety move by a nation. 0:02:02.820 --> 0:02:05.820 17 years. The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated. 0:02:06.140 --> 0:02:07.460 This is not. 0:02:20.860 --> 0:02:23.740 Hi friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. 0:02:23.780 --> 0:02:26.540 I am thrilled we're going to spend this hour together. Okay. 0:02:26.580 --> 0:02:29.940 We're going to think critically and biblically. And what do 0:02:29.940 --> 0:02:32.380 I always say after I make that declaration? That is 0:02:32.380 --> 0:02:34.700 not a multiple choice test. It's not an either or. 0:02:34.740 --> 0:02:37.500 It is a both. And you come to faith in 0:02:37.500 --> 0:02:40.780 Jesus Christ. Your heart is transformed, but your mind is renewed. 0:02:40.780 --> 0:02:44.420 You're a different person. And I've made the declaration before, 0:02:44.460 --> 0:02:46.140 and I think so many of you would have to 0:02:46.139 --> 0:02:48.660 agree that coming to faith in Jesus Christ is like 0:02:48.660 --> 0:02:52.540 stepping out of a black and white movie into Technicolor, 0:02:52.780 --> 0:02:55.299 and you suddenly start looking at the world around you. 0:02:55.300 --> 0:02:57.950 And yes, we are east of Eden and the world 0:02:57.950 --> 0:03:00.470 is turned upside down and good is called evil. Evil 0:03:00.470 --> 0:03:02.230 is called good. And yet man's doing what's right in 0:03:02.230 --> 0:03:04.350 his own eyes. But in the midst of all of that, 0:03:05.190 --> 0:03:08.470 Romans reminds us, we're without excuse because God's presence is 0:03:08.470 --> 0:03:12.669 made manifest. He is everywhere. The heavens declare the glory. 0:03:12.910 --> 0:03:14.950 Had the privilege of sitting on my front porch this 0:03:14.950 --> 0:03:18.549 weekend during a torrential rainstorm. And it was precious. It 0:03:18.550 --> 0:03:22.270 was profound. It was just me, the Lord, and the rain. 0:03:22.270 --> 0:03:23.950 And I thanked him for the rain. And I thought 0:03:23.950 --> 0:03:26.269 of all the Bible verses that talk about the rain. 0:03:26.470 --> 0:03:28.710 And as I was talking to my Heavenly Father in 0:03:28.710 --> 0:03:31.710 this wonderful language between two people who love each other, 0:03:31.710 --> 0:03:35.590 one loves unconditionally and eternally, the other trying to learn 0:03:35.590 --> 0:03:38.950 to do just that. Suddenly the rain stopped, the clouds parted, 0:03:38.950 --> 0:03:41.750 and just like a painting, shafts of light came through 0:03:41.750 --> 0:03:45.070 and just illuminated my front yard, made me get teary eyed. 0:03:45.070 --> 0:03:47.670 And then I thought, oh God, it's such a creative God. 0:03:47.710 --> 0:03:48.950 I mean, when you think about it, why do we 0:03:48.950 --> 0:03:51.230 need four seasons? Why do we have a sky that 0:03:51.230 --> 0:03:54.190 changes colors? Why in the fall does it take your 0:03:54.190 --> 0:03:56.240 breath away. Why? When we look up in a summer 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:58.360 sky and we see all the stars. Does it take 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:02.920 our breath away? God is the creator. And he reminds 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:04.880 us that he's such. By having us look at the 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.560 world around us. And does it surprise you then, from 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:09.480 a God who said, don't frustrate your children, that he 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:13.160 would make so many of his children creative, not only 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.600 for their own edification, by the way, but for their 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:19.880 opportunity to glorify God in their creativity. So there's all 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.760 kinds of ways to honor God in our creativity. C.S. 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:26.320 Lewis said, God loves creativity. He created the whole universe 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.719 and every part of it is beautiful. How beautifully said. 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:31.840 It was interesting too, because when you look at what 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.520 Michelangelo said, he said, the greatest danger for most of 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:36.160 us is not that our aim is too high and 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:39.000 we miss it, but that it's too low and we 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.599 reach it. Victor Hugo said to create is to be 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:47.560 like God. Ephesians 210 said, we are God's workmanship, created 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:50.880 in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:53.330 in advance for us to do. We're going to talk 0:04:53.370 --> 0:04:57.290 about creativity this hour and ownership. And all of this 0:04:57.290 --> 0:05:01.450 emanates from a brilliant book entitled To Invent Is Divine. 0:05:01.450 --> 0:05:04.770 The author is Doctor James Edwards. He is founder and 0:05:04.770 --> 0:05:09.650 CEO of Elite Strategic Services, LLC. He consults on intellectual property, 0:05:09.650 --> 0:05:13.690 or IP, as it's known in the biz, antitrust health policy. 0:05:13.730 --> 0:05:17.370 He plays leadership and strategic and advisory roles on IP, 0:05:17.410 --> 0:05:22.010 particularly patents. He was selected in 1998 as a Lincoln 0:05:22.010 --> 0:05:24.930 Fellow of the Claremont Institute, and was awarded an Eagle 0:05:24.930 --> 0:05:28.770 Award in 2017 by Eagle Forum Education and Legal Defense Fund. 0:05:28.810 --> 0:05:31.130 He is a proud citizen of the great state of 0:05:31.130 --> 0:05:34.050 South Carolina. Doctor Edwards, what a joy to have you 0:05:34.089 --> 0:05:37.490 join me this hour. And I'm absolutely fascinated by this topic. 0:05:37.490 --> 0:05:40.330 And I'll tell you why, because I've talked often on 0:05:40.330 --> 0:05:42.410 this program. In fact, we have a guest on regularly 0:05:42.410 --> 0:05:44.010 who teaches us how to pray for those who are 0:05:44.010 --> 0:05:47.010 in the arts. So often we abandon because so much 0:05:47.010 --> 0:05:50.410 of what is created in a post-Christian world is anathema 0:05:50.410 --> 0:05:53.099 to having that reflection of God as the creator. In fact, 0:05:53.100 --> 0:05:55.580 it's almost an act of rebellion against the creator. But 0:05:55.580 --> 0:05:58.660 I have yet to read anybody who's written about the 0:05:58.660 --> 0:06:04.060 linkage between creativity and intellectual property. I stopped before I 0:06:04.060 --> 0:06:06.020 read the book, and I thought, I never thought about that. 0:06:06.060 --> 0:06:08.980 But it is a form of creativity. So I have 0:06:08.980 --> 0:06:10.700 to ask you, with your background and all the work 0:06:10.700 --> 0:06:13.980 that you do on intellectual property, etc., where did you 0:06:13.980 --> 0:06:16.540 start to born to this idea that there is really 0:06:16.540 --> 0:06:19.340 a linkage between our relationship with the Lord as creator 0:06:19.339 --> 0:06:21.060 and our ability to create? 0:06:22.220 --> 0:06:24.860 First, Janet, let me thank you so much for having 0:06:24.860 --> 0:06:29.739 me on with you. It's such an honor and a privilege. So, um, 0:06:29.740 --> 0:06:37.380 I can't thank you enough. Um, the origin of this journey, 0:06:37.380 --> 0:06:41.300 I'll call. It was an invitation to a speech. I've. 0:06:41.740 --> 0:06:46.539 I've been a Christian as far back as I can remember. Um, 0:06:46.580 --> 0:06:51.789 never doubted Scripture or the, uh, Um, the fact of 0:06:51.790 --> 0:06:57.270 God and and Jesus Christ and accepted him early, uh, 0:06:57.310 --> 0:07:02.430 as my Savior and then went to work on Capitol Hill, 0:07:02.790 --> 0:07:08.390 where I, among other issues I was asked to handle, 0:07:08.430 --> 0:07:14.870 included patents and intellectual property issues as a policy matter, 0:07:14.910 --> 0:07:20.390 a legislative matter. And so that was my introduction to it, really. 0:07:20.630 --> 0:07:26.550 And that's that's the formation. And then leading to the 0:07:26.550 --> 0:07:30.790 thesis of the book and so forth, was an invitation 0:07:30.790 --> 0:07:34.510 to give a speech. One of the organizations I worked with, 0:07:34.830 --> 0:07:38.910 you named it Eagle Forum Education Legal Defense Fund. Um, 0:07:39.110 --> 0:07:43.830 I was at a meeting of their leaders in 2019 0:07:43.870 --> 0:07:47.510 and their Texas leader and I got talking about intellectual 0:07:47.510 --> 0:07:50.480 property and in what Phyllis Schlafly gave a hoot about 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:56.000 patents and, and, um, so she got interested and invited 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.920 me to come give a speech on patents from a 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:04.040 biblical perspective and orientation at her church. And so I 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:07.680 did later that year. And, um, when I got back 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.800 to Washington, I told a friend how it went, uh, 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:15.520 went well. The event was pretty well attended, had like 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:20.720 80 people or so. And, um, I said patents more 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:24.320 than once and nobody's eyes glazed over. So that was 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:27.400 a good sign. And then he said, well, why don't 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.320 you turn the speech into a book? So that that 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:32.720 was the launch of this, this journey. 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:36.320 Wow. Well, it's interesting. And the fact that nobody's eyes 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.840 glazed over tells me immediately, Doctor Edwards, that people were 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.280 resonating with what you had to say. And I think 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.240 part of it is because I think you are so 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:47.970 unique in having made the linkage when we think of creativity, 0:08:48.010 --> 0:08:51.969 it's the performing arts. It's painting, it's music, it's photography, 0:08:51.970 --> 0:08:56.449 it's writing a play. But the idea of inventing I've not. 0:08:56.530 --> 0:08:58.770 And yet it is creating, is it not? Because you 0:08:58.770 --> 0:09:02.370 are in some respects making something ex nihilo? It wasn't 0:09:02.370 --> 0:09:04.850 there before. It's so unique that, in fact, you have 0:09:04.850 --> 0:09:07.050 to knock on the doors of government to say, I'd 0:09:07.050 --> 0:09:11.130 like you to protect this idea, my intellectual property, and 0:09:11.130 --> 0:09:12.809 I want you to give me a patent so that 0:09:12.809 --> 0:09:15.650 it cannot be taken by another person. And I was 0:09:15.650 --> 0:09:17.890 thinking also when I was reading your book, Doctor Edwards, 0:09:17.890 --> 0:09:21.170 how often Paul says don't build on another man's work. 0:09:21.210 --> 0:09:24.410 There's a verse, by the way, for protection, for intellectual property. 0:09:24.450 --> 0:09:26.730 We're just getting started on what I think is a 0:09:26.730 --> 0:09:29.930 fascinating subject. And what it'll do is it'll get you 0:09:29.929 --> 0:09:33.370 to think bigger and deeper and more broadly about creativity, 0:09:33.370 --> 0:09:36.170 but particularly as we see the launch of AI and 0:09:36.170 --> 0:09:38.890 all kinds of new technologies, is that an opportunity for 0:09:38.890 --> 0:09:42.450 us to flourish and to create fascinating book is called 0:09:42.450 --> 0:09:57.260 to Invent is Divine back after this. So many in 0:09:57.260 --> 0:10:00.580 our culture today are spiritually curious but hesitant about religion. 0:10:00.660 --> 0:10:02.980 That's why I've chosen. Have you ever wondered, is this 0:10:02.980 --> 0:10:06.500 month's truth to explore how everyday experiences might be the 0:10:06.500 --> 0:10:09.940 signpost pointing to deeper biblical truths? As for your copy 0:10:09.940 --> 0:10:11.780 of have you ever wondered when you give a gift 0:10:11.780 --> 0:10:15.460 of any amount to in the market, call eight 7758. 0:10:15.500 --> 0:10:19.059 That's eight 7758 or go to in the market with 0:10:19.059 --> 0:10:23.820 Janet Parshall. What a privilege to spend the hour with 0:10:23.820 --> 0:10:26.100 Doctor James Edwards. He is the author of the new 0:10:26.100 --> 0:10:30.740 book to invent is Divine Creativity and Ownership. And this 0:10:30.740 --> 0:10:33.140 is a man who has long been involved with the 0:10:33.140 --> 0:10:36.540 issues of intellectual property and patents. And again, you know, 0:10:36.580 --> 0:10:38.300 there's a whole section of the law, by the way, 0:10:38.300 --> 0:10:42.540 and it's, um, it's arduous by design, but it's necessary. 0:10:42.700 --> 0:10:45.630 And so linking that to creativity is, for me personally, 0:10:45.630 --> 0:10:48.230 something I never thought about before. And yet when you 0:10:48.230 --> 0:10:51.270 think about people inventing and all of the great inventions 0:10:51.270 --> 0:10:54.470 out there that have changed our lives forever, why would 0:10:54.470 --> 0:10:56.309 we not want to protect that? And is that not? 0:10:56.350 --> 0:10:58.390 I mean, yes, that's on a on a temporal plane, 0:10:58.390 --> 0:11:01.270 but on an eternal plane. Is not that kind of 0:11:01.309 --> 0:11:04.189 creativity reflective of who God is? And that's why the 0:11:04.190 --> 0:11:07.870 declaration is made in the title to Invent is Divine. So, 0:11:07.910 --> 0:11:10.230 Doctor Edwards, I think it would be great for our friends. 0:11:10.230 --> 0:11:14.390 In fact, I I'd love to talk about the false 0:11:14.710 --> 0:11:18.550 tension that exists between faith and reason or religion and science. 0:11:18.550 --> 0:11:21.470 It doesn't exist. The great leaders of of science have 0:11:21.470 --> 0:11:24.550 for years and decades, millennia, more to the point, have 0:11:24.550 --> 0:11:26.830 been people who believed in God because they couldn't help 0:11:26.830 --> 0:11:29.070 but look around and see form and order and substance 0:11:29.070 --> 0:11:31.470 and think there had to be a divine creator out there. 0:11:31.790 --> 0:11:34.030 But when you look at also some of those same people, 0:11:34.030 --> 0:11:36.790 they were people who very often had multiple, not single, 0:11:36.790 --> 0:11:40.309 multiple patents as they were inventing. So do a little 0:11:40.309 --> 0:11:42.320 history for us. We'd love to hear some of the 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:45.240 great inventors were and some of their inventions. 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:51.400 Well, there were many that we've never heard of. There 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:56.240 are a few relative few whom we have heard. And 0:11:56.280 --> 0:12:04.280 of course, one being Samuel Morse. Samuel Morse invented the telegraph, 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:11.840 as you know. And he was kind of unique because 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.800 he was he started out as a painter. He was 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:20.520 an artist. He made a living for a while off 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:29.240 of painting portraits, and he traveled around and painted people's portraits. Uh, he, um, 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:33.960 then came up with the idea of the, the invention 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:41.290 of the telegraph. And it was applying electromagnetism Magnetism through 0:12:41.290 --> 0:12:47.610 a single wire to communicate and just. He spent the 0:12:47.610 --> 0:12:55.930 rest of his his career. In commercializing that invention. That 0:12:55.929 --> 0:12:59.449 is to say, taking it to market. So he proved 0:12:59.770 --> 0:13:05.410 the concept. You recall that the at the U.S. Capitol, he, uh, 0:13:06.090 --> 0:13:10.810 set up a wire between Washington and Baltimore, and he 0:13:11.050 --> 0:13:16.410 communicated a message in Morse code. Uh, and that message was, 0:13:16.410 --> 0:13:20.929 what hath God wrought? And he communicated that in his 0:13:20.970 --> 0:13:27.130 his colleague, who was stationed at the receiving end in Baltimore, 0:13:28.610 --> 0:13:32.490 sent back the same message to demonstrate that it had 0:13:32.490 --> 0:13:37.530 been received. And this worked. So then he he built 0:13:37.530 --> 0:13:44.260 a business, built businesses around the The Telegraph. It was 0:13:44.260 --> 0:13:51.500 so impactful that it. It ensconced him in the middle 0:13:51.500 --> 0:13:56.459 of a portrait that's or a painting that's got like 0:13:56.460 --> 0:14:01.500 19 famous inventors of the 19th century. And Maurice is 0:14:01.500 --> 0:14:04.260 sitting in the middle of the table and everybody's looking 0:14:04.260 --> 0:14:08.340 at his telegraph, and that's in the Smithsonian. And then 0:14:08.380 --> 0:14:12.660 you look in the Capital Dome, the U.S. Capitol, and 0:14:12.660 --> 0:14:21.660 there's the apotheosis of Washington picture painted there. Well, off 0:14:21.660 --> 0:14:25.660 to the side in the clouds, there is the image 0:14:25.660 --> 0:14:29.420 of of Samuel Morse. I mean, this guy, he was like, 0:14:30.180 --> 0:14:34.420 think of whoever the the greatest inventor of our time, uh, 0:14:34.780 --> 0:14:39.790 who ever that may be probably the guy who invented the, uh, uh, 0:14:40.230 --> 0:14:46.150 the the artificial heart or something like that, you know. Um, 0:14:46.470 --> 0:14:53.790 or the latest cancer immunotherapy or something. But I that's 0:14:53.790 --> 0:15:01.430 the kind of chronic inventor that that, uh, really is 0:15:02.710 --> 0:15:07.910 sort of, uh, representative of, of American invention at its 0:15:07.910 --> 0:15:11.550 heyday when we had a gold standard patent system. And 0:15:11.550 --> 0:15:16.870 you've got Thomas Edison. He had almost 100 patents. I mean, 0:15:16.870 --> 0:15:21.110 that's a lot of invention. Now, he he's credited with 0:15:21.270 --> 0:15:25.430 inventing the way to invent the model for inventing, which 0:15:25.430 --> 0:15:32.830 was his Menlo Park research and development, uh, facility. And 0:15:32.830 --> 0:15:36.680 he had a whole team of people helping him. His. 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:41.040 His assistant, Charles Batchelor, is the one who was trying 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:46.040 out different materials to be a filament in the light bulb, 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:51.040 for instance. And once they came up with one that 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:55.960 extended the the time that the bulb would, would burn 0:15:55.960 --> 0:16:02.920 before it expired, uh, they got something that made sense because, 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:06.720 you know, at first the filaments were they they didn't 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:11.880 last very long. Like we're talking minutes. So. So you 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:15.840 got to go farther than that to make it practical. So, uh, 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:18.480 all those kinds of things, um, and those are some 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:22.400 of the inventors, the Wright brothers. The Wright brothers are 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:29.160 interesting in that, um, that there's there's one instance I 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.520 report on in the, in the book and that is, 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:39.290 is Wilbur is standing back in Dayton with at that 0:16:39.330 --> 0:16:42.530 their bicycle shop and he's talking to a customer. He 0:16:42.530 --> 0:16:49.010 just sold a bicycle inner tube of this tire. And 0:16:49.010 --> 0:16:52.370 so Wilbur had taken it out and handed it to 0:16:52.410 --> 0:16:55.850 him and all that. And he started just talking with 0:16:55.890 --> 0:17:00.810 and chatting with the, the customer and kind of without 0:17:00.850 --> 0:17:05.889 realizing it, bending the the flimsy box that had come in. 0:17:05.890 --> 0:17:08.330 And then it occurred to him, you know, that's what 0:17:08.330 --> 0:17:13.410 we can use as, as the means of, of adjusting 0:17:13.410 --> 0:17:15.970 our steering, steering our wings. 0:17:16.010 --> 0:17:19.889 So that gave birth to the idea. And the rest, 0:17:19.890 --> 0:17:23.129 as they say, is flying history. You talk about several 0:17:23.130 --> 0:17:26.129 inventors in the book, which I found absolutely fascinating in 0:17:26.130 --> 0:17:27.690 and of itself. And you break the book up into 0:17:27.690 --> 0:17:29.890 several parts. When we come back, I'm going to talk 0:17:29.890 --> 0:17:31.450 about that, and then I'm going to move into this 0:17:31.450 --> 0:17:35.100 concept of ownership. Creativity is one thing. Do we create 0:17:35.100 --> 0:17:38.580 to give it away? And how does. In God's economy, 0:17:38.619 --> 0:17:41.660 how does ownership work? Doctor James Edwards is our guest. 0:17:41.660 --> 0:17:44.540 His brand new book is called To Invent is Divine 0:17:44.540 --> 0:17:56.980 Creativity and Ownership. Back after this. We're spending the hour 0:17:56.980 --> 0:18:00.100 with Doctor James Edwards, who is the founder and CEO 0:18:00.100 --> 0:18:04.820 of Elite Strategic Services. He consults on intellectual property, antitrust 0:18:04.820 --> 0:18:07.340 and health policy. And he's got a brand new book 0:18:07.340 --> 0:18:11.620 out called To Invent Is Divine Creativity and Ownership. And 0:18:11.619 --> 0:18:13.300 I noted just before the break that the book is 0:18:13.300 --> 0:18:16.060 divided into three sections. The first is about creativity, and 0:18:16.060 --> 0:18:21.420 it's really marvelously, theologically rich about this idea that we are, 0:18:21.460 --> 0:18:23.340 if we're made in his image, Imago Dei, it makes 0:18:23.340 --> 0:18:26.300 perfect sense that we would reflect who he is, not 0:18:26.300 --> 0:18:29.340 by accident, but by divine purpose, by the way. And 0:18:29.340 --> 0:18:31.310 we are the only part of God's creation that is 0:18:31.310 --> 0:18:34.110 made in his image. And so there is a hierarchy. 0:18:34.150 --> 0:18:37.750 Human exceptionalism is a very important term. The second part 0:18:37.750 --> 0:18:39.310 of the book is about ownership, and I'm going to 0:18:39.310 --> 0:18:41.150 get into that in a minute. And the last part 0:18:41.190 --> 0:18:44.510 is the patent ecosystem and how difficult it is or 0:18:44.510 --> 0:18:47.310 should be to get a patent in today's age. But 0:18:47.310 --> 0:18:48.790 let me go to this idea, and I think this 0:18:48.790 --> 0:18:52.390 is the most challenging part, Doctor Edwards, because if someone paints, 0:18:52.430 --> 0:18:54.949 I mean Michelangelo, for example. So he had patrons and 0:18:54.950 --> 0:18:57.270 people would pay, Rembrandt would have patrons, and they would 0:18:57.270 --> 0:18:59.949 pay him to paint something. So in essence, there was 0:18:59.950 --> 0:19:02.190 an ownership, but it wasn't of the artist himself. He 0:19:02.190 --> 0:19:04.869 was paid to, to do, to produce a kind of 0:19:04.869 --> 0:19:07.429 a product, and he let it go. Now he can 0:19:07.430 --> 0:19:10.470 be remembered forever in the halls of some European art museum, 0:19:10.470 --> 0:19:13.830 but the ownership is transferred to the person who buys 0:19:13.830 --> 0:19:17.990 the piece of art. When you get into intellectual property, 0:19:18.030 --> 0:19:20.590 because it's an idea, it's a concept, Lord willing, it 0:19:20.590 --> 0:19:23.350 grows into something you can put your hands on, i.e. 0:19:23.390 --> 0:19:27.230 an invention. But this idea of ownership is different because, 0:19:27.670 --> 0:19:30.080 particularly for the believer, if you start with a biblio 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:33.800 centric worldview, where does ownership fit in? Because you write 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.800 an entire chapter called God the Owner. Talk to me 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:37.439 about that. 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:43.400 Well, if you, as you would know well, um, about 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:47.480 as often as you see God's the Creator throughout Scripture, 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:53.159 from Genesis to Revelation and it's, you know, it's the purpose, 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:56.880 the main point of the sentence, or it's just a 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:01.439 throwaway parenthetical phrase, you know, stuck in there. God who 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.920 created the heavens and the earth, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:11.159 and the same thing is true of ownership. God owns 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:15.760 the cattle on a thousand hills. Um, he he is 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:25.639 the the creator and owner of everything that has been made. Um. Jesus, John. Uh, 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:29.530 chapter one, gospel of John, chapter one, and it talks 0:20:29.530 --> 0:20:31.810 about in the beginning was the word, and the word 0:20:31.810 --> 0:20:35.610 Jesus was with God, and the word was God, and 0:20:35.850 --> 0:20:39.170 all things were made by him. And without him was 0:20:39.170 --> 0:20:43.410 not anything made that was made. And then you get to, um, 0:20:43.530 --> 0:20:48.929 the fact that God claims ownership of every single thing, uh, 0:20:48.970 --> 0:20:53.490 and all of this is, is throughout Scripture. Um, but 0:20:53.490 --> 0:21:01.450 ownership is the natural. It's demonstrated by those scriptures where 0:21:01.450 --> 0:21:06.730 it talks about God owning his creation. That is the 0:21:06.730 --> 0:21:15.730 natural consequence of having been creative, having created something you're creative. 0:21:15.770 --> 0:21:19.850 For for humans, obviously, we can't create out of, uh, 0:21:19.850 --> 0:21:26.780 ex nihilo from nothing, but we can use the natural, uh, Um, materials, 0:21:26.780 --> 0:21:30.300 the things that God has put before us and applying 0:21:30.340 --> 0:21:35.740 our abilities, our thought, our reason, our observation, all those 0:21:35.740 --> 0:21:41.260 kinds of of of facets to bear on solving a problem, 0:21:41.300 --> 0:21:44.979 on making an improvement to something that already exists. You know, 0:21:45.020 --> 0:21:48.980 here's one broom. And okay, I can make a better 0:21:48.980 --> 0:21:53.859 design of that, you know, or here's a one, uh, uh, Clipper. 0:21:53.900 --> 0:21:56.020 I can make a better design of that. You know, 0:21:56.060 --> 0:22:00.020 you have ideas to improve things, but the fact of 0:22:00.020 --> 0:22:07.300 intellectual property and ownership is you are creating property that 0:22:07.300 --> 0:22:13.820 did not previously exist. So, you know, granting the occasions 0:22:13.820 --> 0:22:17.820 when it's you've assigned the rights of ownership to somebody 0:22:17.820 --> 0:22:22.060 else because they're paying you in the lab and you're 0:22:22.060 --> 0:22:26.580 an employee, and it's really all happening. You're able to 0:22:26.580 --> 0:22:31.580 do that because of the resources provided through the employment 0:22:31.859 --> 0:22:35.740 or as you mentioned, the commissioning of a work. Um, 0:22:36.740 --> 0:22:41.780 but ownership is the natural consequence of having created something. 0:22:42.460 --> 0:22:47.900 And so if you own it, you have just as 0:22:47.900 --> 0:22:52.220 God does. Um, this this brings up the the metaphor 0:22:52.260 --> 0:22:54.860 that I cite in the book as well, the Potter 0:22:54.859 --> 0:22:55.620 and the Clay. 0:22:55.980 --> 0:22:56.460 Um. 0:22:56.740 --> 0:23:05.300 You know, um, God uses that image to tell us that, 0:23:05.340 --> 0:23:11.020 you know, he makes human beings and, you know, different 0:23:11.020 --> 0:23:15.540 people in his divine sovereignty makes those decisions. Who's going 0:23:15.580 --> 0:23:20.100 to be the ruler of, you know, Siam, who's going 0:23:20.140 --> 0:23:23.350 to be the ruler of, uh, of the United States. 0:23:23.350 --> 0:23:27.629 And who's going to be, um, be the doctor who 0:23:27.869 --> 0:23:30.790 cures cancer. You know, all these sorts of things. He's 0:23:30.790 --> 0:23:36.630 the one who makes those purposes, uh, decided, uh, and 0:23:36.710 --> 0:23:40.070 in the same way we as human beings are able 0:23:40.070 --> 0:23:43.670 to decide what to make, how to make it, and 0:23:44.230 --> 0:23:46.910 what to do with it, what its purpose is. So 0:23:46.950 --> 0:23:52.230 we we have agency over what we create, and ownership 0:23:52.270 --> 0:23:54.510 is a critical part of that. 0:23:56.430 --> 0:23:58.510 And coming up to a break, and you took me 0:23:58.510 --> 0:24:00.909 exactly where I wanted to go, because when we come back, 0:24:01.109 --> 0:24:03.510 let me play the role of the skeptic for a minute. 0:24:03.510 --> 0:24:05.470 I'm loving what you're saying. But let me just to 0:24:05.510 --> 0:24:07.830 help fine tune our apologetic on this, let me push 0:24:07.830 --> 0:24:10.310 back and ask to look at this in a different way. 0:24:10.310 --> 0:24:13.990 So this idea of ownership ex-nihilo making something that wasn't 0:24:13.990 --> 0:24:17.670 there before and now protecting it for its use, that's 0:24:17.670 --> 0:24:19.990 what we're talking about right now. All of this emanating 0:24:19.990 --> 0:24:22.959 from the new book by Doctor Edwards called To Invent 0:24:22.960 --> 0:24:26.560 is Divine Creativity and Ownership. And that's really what the 0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:29.640 book is all about. The linkage between creativity and ownership 0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:31.679 makes perfect sense, does it not, from a man who 0:24:31.680 --> 0:24:34.440 is an expert in intellectual property? So we've got lots 0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:35.840 to talk about. Stick with us. By the way, if 0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:37.720 you're interested in a copy of this book, if this 0:24:37.720 --> 0:24:40.200 really is fire in your bones on this topic, go 0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:43.480 to the website in the market with Janet parshall.org. Click 0:24:43.480 --> 0:24:45.920 on the red box. It says Program Details and audio. 0:24:45.920 --> 0:24:48.160 It'll take you to the information page. I've got a 0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:49.760 link you can click on through to figure out how 0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:58.240 to get your copy back after this. Tired of the endless, 0:24:58.240 --> 0:25:00.920 biased spin you hear on mainstream media and in the market, 0:25:00.920 --> 0:25:03.040 we're using God's Word as our guide as we examine 0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:05.160 today's events, and we want you to be informed and 0:25:05.160 --> 0:25:07.920 bold about his truth. This is a listener supported program, 0:25:07.920 --> 0:25:09.520 so if you value what you hear and you want 0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:11.879 us to continue on your station, become a partial partner 0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:17.920 with your monthly support, call eight 7758. That's eight 7758 0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:20.210 or go online to in the end the market with 0:25:20.210 --> 0:25:25.610 Janet Parshall. Doctor James Edwards is with us. He is 0:25:25.609 --> 0:25:28.930 founder and CEO of Elite Strategic Services. He consults on 0:25:28.930 --> 0:25:33.730 intellectual property, antitrust and health policy. He plays leadership, strategic 0:25:33.730 --> 0:25:37.410 and advisory roles on intellectual property, particularly in the area 0:25:37.410 --> 0:25:39.570 of patents, which comes through loud and clear in his 0:25:39.570 --> 0:25:43.170 new book. He was selected as a 1998 Lincoln Fellow 0:25:43.170 --> 0:25:45.970 at the Claremont Institute, and was awarded an Eagle Award 0:25:45.970 --> 0:25:49.610 in 2017 by Eagle Forum Education and Legal Defense Fund. 0:25:49.650 --> 0:25:52.650 His brand new book is called To Invent is Divine 0:25:52.650 --> 0:25:56.650 Creativity and Ownership, and it's the ownership part that we've 0:25:56.650 --> 0:25:59.450 landed on right now. So, Doctor Edwards, let me and again, 0:25:59.490 --> 0:26:01.290 I'm doing this just to help us to think more 0:26:01.290 --> 0:26:04.649 critically and biblically. So you talked about the ownership. So 0:26:04.650 --> 0:26:06.369 someone comes up with an idea. And by the way, 0:26:06.369 --> 0:26:08.490 in the section on the creators, you talk about literally 0:26:08.490 --> 0:26:11.890 how often creators believe that they got divine inspiration from 0:26:11.890 --> 0:26:14.930 the Lord to create something. And the outcome of the 0:26:14.970 --> 0:26:18.460 invention in the invention helps our fellow man. So there's 0:26:18.460 --> 0:26:20.619 a flourishing aspect to that we can get into later. 0:26:20.660 --> 0:26:23.780 That's extremely important. But God owns it all, and you 0:26:23.780 --> 0:26:26.300 do a wonderful job biblically pointing out all the fact 0:26:26.300 --> 0:26:28.580 that it's all the Lord. So in truth, we are 0:26:28.619 --> 0:26:31.260 nothing but stewards. We're not owners, we're stewards. We come 0:26:31.260 --> 0:26:34.179 in empty handed. We leave empty handed. We steward the 0:26:34.180 --> 0:26:37.060 blessings that God has brought into our life, all of them, 0:26:37.060 --> 0:26:39.900 our family, our finances. And yes, even it seems to me, 0:26:39.900 --> 0:26:42.860 our creativity. So here's the question to help us think. 0:26:43.100 --> 0:26:45.180 So if we were going to be and I'm going 0:26:45.180 --> 0:26:48.580 to use these words purposely, Christ like, and I invent something, 0:26:48.859 --> 0:26:50.859 why would I want a patent? Why wouldn't I just 0:26:50.859 --> 0:26:53.900 give it away for the better use of humankind and 0:26:53.900 --> 0:26:57.340 not have ownership and or restrictions within the parameters of 0:26:57.340 --> 0:26:59.139 a patent? Why wouldn't I just give it away? Wouldn't 0:26:59.140 --> 0:27:01.060 that be the quote Christ like thing to do? 0:27:02.340 --> 0:27:07.740 Well, that's certainly your prerogative. As the owner of it. 0:27:07.740 --> 0:27:11.740 You can are free to give it away. However, the 0:27:11.780 --> 0:27:16.950 default setting is ownership and if it is to be 0:27:16.950 --> 0:27:23.470 made something practical and applied broadly, that is to say, commercialized. 0:27:24.470 --> 0:27:31.830 Then you have to have something, some tangible basis for um, 0:27:31.869 --> 0:27:35.910 for attracting investment to do so. To build a company 0:27:35.910 --> 0:27:40.350 around it, to get somebody to manufacture it, to get 0:27:40.350 --> 0:27:45.310 somebody to produce it, getting somebody to distribute it. Um, 0:27:45.350 --> 0:27:50.270 all of those parts won't happen if you simply give 0:27:50.310 --> 0:27:55.949 the invention away without, uh, when it's simply just the patent. 0:27:56.550 --> 0:28:01.390 The reason is because of the lack of certainty that 0:28:01.390 --> 0:28:05.790 you have control. And that's what the patent does. It 0:28:05.830 --> 0:28:11.190 secures rights just like your deed on your home. If 0:28:11.230 --> 0:28:17.399 you cannot keep someone from squatting on your property. You 0:28:17.400 --> 0:28:21.359 have no secure rights in that property. And that's the 0:28:21.359 --> 0:28:28.440 very same thing with intellectual property. You have to have secure, uh, dependable, 0:28:28.440 --> 0:28:34.040 enforceable rights. And that is, is the the only thing 0:28:34.400 --> 0:28:40.840 that will enable someone to basically not, not monopolize as such, 0:28:40.840 --> 0:28:46.320 but to cooperate, collaborate with others to bring it into 0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:51.360 something that is useful beyond simply a very small group 0:28:51.360 --> 0:28:52.080 of people. 0:28:52.400 --> 0:28:55.320 Yeah, I'm very satisfied with that answer. Inherent in what 0:28:55.320 --> 0:28:58.760 you're saying is the idea that you protect and shepherd 0:28:58.760 --> 0:29:00.960 the idea that the Lord has given you, i.e., whatever 0:29:00.960 --> 0:29:04.520 it is you invent, that you're getting patent. Because particularly 0:29:04.520 --> 0:29:06.280 for believers now, the world is going to look at 0:29:06.280 --> 0:29:08.760 this differently. But as believers, it's like, okay, what can 0:29:08.760 --> 0:29:11.240 I do to help my fellow man flourish? If I 0:29:11.240 --> 0:29:13.530 just give this away, the idea could die in the cradle. 0:29:13.530 --> 0:29:16.090 I don't get very far with the idea of helping 0:29:16.090 --> 0:29:18.690 this idea to grow and to help other people. What 0:29:18.690 --> 0:29:20.250 about the people who push back and say, oh, but 0:29:20.250 --> 0:29:22.170 it's really about making money. You patent it. You're the 0:29:22.170 --> 0:29:24.450 one that pockets the gold. Is that a bad thing? 0:29:25.930 --> 0:29:30.490 Well, if if you if you think that the having 0:29:30.490 --> 0:29:36.970 the means to help other people, giving more to your church, 0:29:37.010 --> 0:29:42.290 more to ministries, more to the poor, um, then you 0:29:42.290 --> 0:29:45.290 need to have more to give. Where's that going to 0:29:45.290 --> 0:29:48.810 come from? It's the fruits of your labor. And that 0:29:48.810 --> 0:29:53.610 brings me to the another biblical metaphor that's central in this, 0:29:53.650 --> 0:29:57.490 in the book and in this very subject is the 0:29:57.490 --> 0:30:01.050 vine and the fig tree. That's the fruits of one's 0:30:01.050 --> 0:30:04.610 labor are owned by the owner of the property. Who 0:30:04.890 --> 0:30:10.690 who stewards, let's use that word, uh, that property into 0:30:10.890 --> 0:30:14.940 growing vine. Growing a fig tree. And this is the picture, 0:30:14.940 --> 0:30:18.180 the image of the owner at the end of the day, 0:30:18.740 --> 0:30:22.580 resting in the shade of the vine and enjoying the 0:30:22.580 --> 0:30:28.300 fruit of the vine and fig tree without a threat. 0:30:28.340 --> 0:30:33.219 It's secure. It's peace, it's enjoyment. It's it's the fruits 0:30:33.220 --> 0:30:36.860 of one's labor. And I mean, that is not only 0:30:36.860 --> 0:30:41.380 in the Bible, it's also John Locke. It's the Founding Fathers, 0:30:41.420 --> 0:30:45.740 it's Lincoln. Abe Lincoln is the only president to own 0:30:45.740 --> 0:30:49.980 a patent and be an inventor. Um, said that the 0:30:50.020 --> 0:30:53.980 fuel of interest is joined to the fire of genius. 0:30:54.580 --> 0:30:58.980 That's fuel of interest is ownership. It's the ability to 0:30:59.020 --> 0:31:03.219 make to to make money out of what you make. 0:31:03.580 --> 0:31:08.820 And other people benefit from having that invention to put 0:31:08.820 --> 0:31:10.390 to use for themselves. 0:31:11.190 --> 0:31:14.630 Mm. Excellent. Okay, so now you took me where I 0:31:14.630 --> 0:31:17.709 wanted to go on the issue of patents. So let me, in. 0:31:17.710 --> 0:31:18.590 Fact, this. 0:31:18.710 --> 0:31:21.430 Yes. You are. You're very good at this. So you 0:31:21.430 --> 0:31:23.350 have a quote from Abraham Lincoln, which I bet most 0:31:23.350 --> 0:31:25.830 people listening didn't know that Lincoln had a patent. I'm 0:31:25.830 --> 0:31:27.390 going to get emails if I don't ask, what did 0:31:27.390 --> 0:31:28.510 he get the patent for? 0:31:29.310 --> 0:31:36.070 It was a device for passing over shoals in rivers 0:31:36.070 --> 0:31:37.030 and streams. 0:31:38.190 --> 0:31:40.270 Interesting. Was that something. 0:31:40.710 --> 0:31:43.150 Enabling boats to get over shoals? 0:31:43.670 --> 0:31:46.070 Did that happen when he was Abe Lincoln in Illinois 0:31:46.070 --> 0:31:48.030 or when he was in a presidential mode? 0:31:48.310 --> 0:31:50.150 No, when he was in Illinois. 0:31:51.310 --> 0:31:54.070 I wanted rather busy being president, but that's an absolutely 0:31:54.070 --> 0:31:57.110 fascinating idea. And you include a quote from Lincoln, the 0:31:57.110 --> 0:31:59.870 patent system, this is Lincoln talking, added the fuel of 0:31:59.870 --> 0:32:02.830 interest to the fire of genius in the discovery and 0:32:02.830 --> 0:32:06.590 production of new and useful things. I think that's absolutely brilliant. 0:32:06.590 --> 0:32:09.480 So let me go back, because if Lincoln was talking 0:32:09.480 --> 0:32:12.600 about patterns, that tells thinking people that patterns were around 0:32:12.600 --> 0:32:15.200 in the 1800s, how far back in the United States 0:32:15.200 --> 0:32:16.160 do patterns go? 0:32:17.440 --> 0:32:21.000 Well, they go back to colonial times. The the colonies 0:32:21.000 --> 0:32:26.680 and then the states. Uh, after we were independent, um, 0:32:27.720 --> 0:32:32.360 and during the time of the Articles of Confederation, even the, 0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:40.840 the first state patents was like 1780, I believe. And 0:32:40.840 --> 0:32:44.280 that was in South Carolina. Yes. My home state happens 0:32:44.280 --> 0:32:48.680 to happens to be the leader on the patent system. Uh, 0:32:48.760 --> 0:32:57.440 and one of our signers of the Constitution, Charles Pinckney, was, 0:32:57.480 --> 0:33:02.320 was instrumental working with James Madison at the constitutional Convention 0:33:02.320 --> 0:33:07.170 to add article one, section eight, clause eight, which is 0:33:07.170 --> 0:33:11.570 the the passage that enables Congress to pass laws for 0:33:11.570 --> 0:33:13.970 patents and copyrights. 0:33:14.010 --> 0:33:16.210 Wow. That says so many things. First of all, even 0:33:16.210 --> 0:33:19.050 if you're not interested in American jurisprudence or constitutional law 0:33:19.090 --> 0:33:22.650 or the writings of the Founding Fathers in their birthing 0:33:22.650 --> 0:33:25.890 of this new nation, they knew that creativity had to 0:33:25.890 --> 0:33:29.930 be encouraged and protected. I think that says something significant 0:33:29.930 --> 0:33:33.690 that early on in our beginnings, we would somehow want 0:33:33.690 --> 0:33:35.729 to make sure that the right to be able to 0:33:35.770 --> 0:33:39.170 preserve ideas would be there in this new nation. But again, 0:33:39.210 --> 0:33:41.170 they would have seen that all over the European continent. 0:33:41.170 --> 0:33:43.170 That shouldn't have been a surprise to them. Correct? 0:33:43.730 --> 0:33:48.730 That's true. But the the non-European factor in there is 0:33:48.730 --> 0:33:52.690 that they were all, uh, born and raised in a 0:33:53.170 --> 0:34:00.610 society that was biblically literate, was heavily affected by the 0:34:00.650 --> 0:34:08.580 great awakening of like 25 to 30 year long nationwide 0:34:09.460 --> 0:34:20.340 colony wide. Religious revival. And George Whitefield. Jonathan Edwards I said, James, 0:34:20.340 --> 0:34:25.500 because that's my name. Edwards. Jonathan Edwards, no relation. And 0:34:25.540 --> 0:34:31.580 others were going up and down the continent, the Atlantic coast, 0:34:31.580 --> 0:34:34.779 preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it was an 0:34:34.780 --> 0:34:39.620 outpouring of the Holy Spirit that brought many, many, many 0:34:39.620 --> 0:34:48.060 people to Christ. It increased biblical literacy and improved the 0:34:48.180 --> 0:34:53.940 spiritual life of the United States. What became the United States? 0:34:53.980 --> 0:34:56.700 The then the colonists? Yeah. 0:34:57.300 --> 0:34:58.340 You know, wouldn't it be interesting? 0:34:58.380 --> 0:35:01.379 That's what affected them. They knew the Bible. Exactly. That's 0:35:01.380 --> 0:35:06.629 why George Washington and others quoted from it frequently in 0:35:06.630 --> 0:35:09.190 their their correspondence and otherwise. 0:35:09.830 --> 0:35:12.350 I don't know if anyone's ever done this study. Doctor Edwards, 0:35:12.350 --> 0:35:15.750 but wouldn't it be fascinating if you followed what happened 0:35:15.750 --> 0:35:19.109 during the Great Awakenings and whether or not, at the 0:35:19.110 --> 0:35:21.990 same time, we saw an uptick in the numbers of 0:35:22.150 --> 0:35:24.910 new inventions or requests for patents? In other words, is 0:35:24.910 --> 0:35:28.110 there a parallel between a spiritual awakening and a stirring 0:35:28.150 --> 0:35:29.110 of creativity? 0:35:29.710 --> 0:35:32.950 That's a great question. I'm not aware of it, but, um, 0:35:33.350 --> 0:35:35.750 you know, I hadn't read every single book on patents 0:35:35.790 --> 0:35:37.750 just yet. I'm working on. 0:35:37.750 --> 0:35:41.230 It. Probably close to it nonetheless, which is fascinating. 0:35:41.270 --> 0:35:43.469 All right. So now, because it's part and I love 0:35:43.469 --> 0:35:45.109 the history and there's so much more in the book. 0:35:45.110 --> 0:35:46.790 By the way, friends, again, the book is called to 0:35:46.830 --> 0:35:50.710 invent is Divine creativity and Ownership. Now, take me to 0:35:50.750 --> 0:35:53.630 the present day because someone might be listening right now 0:35:53.670 --> 0:35:55.589 is going, I got this great idea, I would know 0:35:55.590 --> 0:35:57.870 where to begin. How hard is it to get a 0:35:57.870 --> 0:36:02.320 patent today? And you're hearing the music play. Let me. see, 0:36:02.360 --> 0:36:03.960 let me stop. You don't mean to be rude, but 0:36:03.960 --> 0:36:05.719 I don't want to have to interrupt you. I'll leave 0:36:05.719 --> 0:36:07.480 the question hanging. So for those of you who have 0:36:07.480 --> 0:36:09.960 a great idea sitting on that shelf in your mind, 0:36:10.080 --> 0:36:11.680 and you'd love to be able to patent it, but 0:36:11.680 --> 0:36:13.400 you don't have a clue how you do that. I 0:36:13.440 --> 0:36:15.160 have a feeling Doctor Edwards is going to know how 0:36:15.160 --> 0:36:17.600 to do it. He talks about this and a whole 0:36:17.600 --> 0:36:22.359 lot more. The linkage between creativity and ownership. Ownership then, 0:36:22.360 --> 0:36:25.960 portends this question of intellectual property and the preservation of 0:36:25.960 --> 0:36:29.480 your creativity through a patent. Really never thought about this before. 0:36:29.520 --> 0:36:33.560 God is everywhere, even in the world of inventing. Book 0:36:33.560 --> 0:36:36.440 is absolutely fascinating. Doctor James Edwards is the author. Will 0:36:36.440 --> 0:36:38.440 take a break. We'll get an answer to that question, 0:36:38.440 --> 0:36:40.440 to how hard is it to get a patent when 0:36:40.440 --> 0:36:57.160 we return? To invent is Divine Creativity and Ownership. Brand 0:36:57.160 --> 0:37:00.520 new book by Doctor James Edwards who just knows so 0:37:00.570 --> 0:37:04.009 much about intellectual property and patents. And that's exactly where 0:37:04.010 --> 0:37:05.890 we went just before the break. And again, thank you, 0:37:05.890 --> 0:37:09.450 Doctor Edwards, for understanding the tyranny of the clock in radio. 0:37:09.450 --> 0:37:11.049 So I didn't want to interrupt you as you got 0:37:11.050 --> 0:37:13.330 into your answer. So the question and I know I 0:37:13.330 --> 0:37:15.570 had people lean closer because I bet there are great 0:37:15.570 --> 0:37:18.810 inventors within our listening audience. How difficult is it to 0:37:18.810 --> 0:37:19.610 get a patent? 0:37:20.930 --> 0:37:25.850 Well, it's it's not easy. I mean, they make it 0:37:25.890 --> 0:37:29.890 where you have to have something that is, you know, 0:37:29.930 --> 0:37:37.330 qualifies to be patented, and then it's examined for specific things. 0:37:37.450 --> 0:37:40.330 How is it useful, i.e. does it solve a problem, 0:37:40.370 --> 0:37:45.529 a specific problem? Um, and is it a novel? That is. 0:37:45.570 --> 0:37:48.969 Is it new? It, it it may work, but it's 0:37:48.969 --> 0:37:52.250 not new. Then it's not patentable. And then there's a 0:37:52.250 --> 0:37:55.969 funny term called non-obvious, which is kind of hard to 0:37:55.969 --> 0:38:01.500 explain briefly, but it's it's essentially something that is is 0:38:01.500 --> 0:38:07.220 unique to the examiner. Being so knowledgeable on that subject 0:38:07.219 --> 0:38:12.300 matter would have figured it out based on what was 0:38:12.380 --> 0:38:15.140 the state of the art at the time, the patent 0:38:15.260 --> 0:38:16.779 the invention was made? 0:38:18.180 --> 0:38:21.140 Is this all done? I'm going to say in paperwork, 0:38:21.140 --> 0:38:23.339 but that just dates me immediately. Can you do this 0:38:23.340 --> 0:38:25.980 all online? Do you have to appear before someone and 0:38:25.980 --> 0:38:27.100 show your invention? 0:38:28.020 --> 0:38:32.020 You don't have to appear. Um, some prefer to have 0:38:32.020 --> 0:38:37.900 a meeting with the examiner. Um, if usually it's virtual 0:38:38.340 --> 0:38:42.060 these days. But, uh, a lot of it's done electronically, 0:38:42.060 --> 0:38:47.140 of course. Um, but it's it's you have to have 0:38:47.540 --> 0:38:53.100 the someone draft the patent who puts it into the proper, um. 0:38:55.140 --> 0:38:59.270 Arrangement of things. You have to have certain patent claims. 0:38:59.270 --> 0:39:04.630 So crafting the description of the patent is, is something 0:39:04.630 --> 0:39:08.230 that the inventor is likely to be able to do best. 0:39:08.630 --> 0:39:13.549 But to draft the claims, those are very specific, very 0:39:13.550 --> 0:39:18.589 particular and legal in nature. So you're you're drawing up 0:39:18.590 --> 0:39:23.910 a legal document effectively and need someone who's knowledgeable about 0:39:23.910 --> 0:39:29.109 the patent application system. Um, to do that part on 0:39:29.110 --> 0:39:33.790 your own would be, um, a more it would be 0:39:33.790 --> 0:39:38.190 riskier than doing doing it, biting the bullet and hiring 0:39:38.190 --> 0:39:39.310 a patent attorney. 0:39:39.430 --> 0:39:41.790 Exactly right. And for people who haven't figured it out, 0:39:41.790 --> 0:39:44.069 this topic is loaded with lawyers. In fact, I was 0:39:44.070 --> 0:39:46.589 thinking when you were talking about the review, one of 0:39:46.590 --> 0:39:48.910 the things has to be that you didn't steal somebody 0:39:48.910 --> 0:39:51.590 else's idea that a patent isn't being granted to something 0:39:51.590 --> 0:39:54.070 that's already been invented, and that would take time and research, 0:39:54.070 --> 0:39:55.030 it seems to me. 0:39:55.120 --> 0:40:00.080 Exactly. They they do a prior the examiners. Well, the 0:40:00.120 --> 0:40:04.399 patent lawyer for you. Uh, but then also the patent examiners, 0:40:04.400 --> 0:40:08.000 they search what's called the prior art, all the art 0:40:08.000 --> 0:40:14.480 that became before in that area, that technology. And so, uh, 0:40:14.480 --> 0:40:17.960 they do try to ascertain what is and what is 0:40:17.960 --> 0:40:24.280 not out there, um, as, as quite broadly. And, um, 0:40:24.480 --> 0:40:28.319 and so that that's something that has to be, be, uh, 0:40:28.360 --> 0:40:33.480 to their satisfaction, um, the case that it is unique. 0:40:34.800 --> 0:40:37.320 From start to finish. And this is a broad question, 0:40:37.320 --> 0:40:39.960 so forgive me, but on average, how long does it 0:40:39.960 --> 0:40:42.080 take for someone to get a patent? And I would 0:40:42.080 --> 0:40:45.520 imagine it's idea predicated if you have a simple idea, 0:40:45.560 --> 0:40:47.680 maybe not as long as a more complex idea. 0:40:48.560 --> 0:40:52.400 Yes. And you'll forgive me for not, um, recalling the 0:40:52.440 --> 0:40:58.330 overall average, But to your point, that is exactly right. 0:40:58.370 --> 0:41:05.530 If it's if it's a simple, straightforward, um, invention, it's 0:41:05.530 --> 0:41:07.969 not going to take nearly as long as if you 0:41:08.010 --> 0:41:13.210 were inventing something like a new cancer drug or something. 0:41:14.050 --> 0:41:17.890 Those things really take take a while. Uh, or something 0:41:17.930 --> 0:41:22.650 that's at the cutting edge, like a new, um, semiconductor 0:41:22.650 --> 0:41:23.489 or something. 0:41:23.650 --> 0:41:27.250 Yeah. Wow. And again, I'm thinking of not someone who 0:41:27.290 --> 0:41:30.090 works at some major plant where all they do is 0:41:30.090 --> 0:41:32.610 come up with creative ideas. I'm talking about the person 0:41:32.610 --> 0:41:34.689 who's got it sitting in the garage, and they're thinking, gosh, 0:41:34.690 --> 0:41:36.890 if I could just get this idea out there. So 0:41:36.890 --> 0:41:39.050 there's going to be legal hoops, there's going to be paperwork, 0:41:39.050 --> 0:41:40.569 you're going to have to fill things out. It's going 0:41:40.610 --> 0:41:42.890 to take time for all the reasons you just said. 0:41:42.930 --> 0:41:44.770 Does it take money to get a patent? 0:41:45.250 --> 0:41:50.210 Yes. There are fees associated with it. But, um, a 0:41:50.330 --> 0:41:54.020 good chunk of change will be going toward the, uh, 0:41:54.140 --> 0:41:58.140 the attorney who helps you through that whole process. And 0:41:58.140 --> 0:42:03.219 it's an extended process. So, um, they're they're doing their 0:42:03.219 --> 0:42:07.020 due diligence at the patent office. The government's job is 0:42:07.020 --> 0:42:11.580 to ascertain that this is, in fact, new property that 0:42:11.580 --> 0:42:16.180 did not previously exist, and also to determine the metes 0:42:16.180 --> 0:42:20.940 and bounds, the boundary lines of that property. So it's 0:42:20.980 --> 0:42:25.700 a it's a it's a complicated, uh, you know, takes 0:42:25.739 --> 0:42:30.100 takes a while for the examination to, to, to take 0:42:30.100 --> 0:42:34.380 place regardless of the sophistication of the invention. 0:42:34.780 --> 0:42:35.180 Um. 0:42:35.500 --> 0:42:39.340 You know, that's mean, you know, a fair amount of change, 0:42:39.380 --> 0:42:43.820 some sums going to be, uh, much more expensive because 0:42:43.820 --> 0:42:47.460 of the, the iterations it has to go through in 0:42:47.460 --> 0:42:50.590 terms of answering questions back and forth and all this. Else. 0:42:50.870 --> 0:42:54.310 So that raises the question of stifling creativity. And you 0:42:54.310 --> 0:42:56.310 talk about the fact that there have been some legal 0:42:56.310 --> 0:43:00.069 developments that really force a separation between the two things 0:43:00.070 --> 0:43:04.110 that you've linked together creativity and ownership. What is causing 0:43:04.110 --> 0:43:05.390 a wedge between those two? 0:43:06.190 --> 0:43:10.150 Well, as I as I indicated, the the, the Founding 0:43:10.150 --> 0:43:15.470 Fathers essentially put in place a patent system that for 0:43:15.469 --> 0:43:19.150 about 200 years stood the test of time and became 0:43:19.150 --> 0:43:22.590 the world's gold standard. It moved the United States from 0:43:22.989 --> 0:43:31.910 a backwater, an agrarian society, into the world's leading industrial 0:43:31.910 --> 0:43:37.750 and innovative power. So it worked for a long time. 0:43:38.070 --> 0:43:43.469 And what has happened is a number of legal challenges 0:43:43.469 --> 0:43:49.430 and legal opinions, a lot of legislation weakening patents, taking, 0:43:50.120 --> 0:43:55.799 patent rights, making them tenuous, attenuated as opposed to secure. 0:43:57.280 --> 0:44:00.040 Yeah, that sort of defeats the whole purpose, does it not? Well, 0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:03.160 Doctor Edwards, absolutely fascinating. I feel, in truth, that I've 0:44:03.160 --> 0:44:05.520 just barely scratched the surface, but I hope I've planted 0:44:05.520 --> 0:44:08.000 a seed of curiosity in the hearts and minds of 0:44:08.000 --> 0:44:11.440 those who really celebrate the fact that God has made 0:44:11.440 --> 0:44:13.960 him creative. Maybe even have an idea that you would 0:44:13.960 --> 0:44:16.680 love to see patent and you understand that is not 0:44:16.680 --> 0:44:21.200 by accident. There's really divine inspiration there that this is 0:44:21.200 --> 0:44:24.520 God making you creative, which reflects his glory, by the way. 0:44:24.800 --> 0:44:27.320 And in so doing, perhaps what you're thinking about inventing 0:44:27.320 --> 0:44:29.120 or on the cusp of getting a patent helps your 0:44:29.120 --> 0:44:31.680 fellow man flourish as well. So God's in it all, 0:44:31.719 --> 0:44:33.399 is he not? I bet you didn't think about this 0:44:33.400 --> 0:44:35.360 before today. And if you want to think about it more, 0:44:35.400 --> 0:44:36.839 and I want you to get a copy of Doctor 0:44:36.840 --> 0:44:41.040 Edwards brand new book to invent his divine creativity and ownership. 0:44:41.040 --> 0:44:43.280 I've got it linked to my information page. Doctor Edwards, 0:44:43.280 --> 0:44:46.040 thank you for a memorable conversation. Thank you friends. We'll 0:44:46.040 --> 0:44:48.520 see you next time on In the Market with Janet Parshall.