1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 S1: Hi friends. Thanks so much for downloading this podcast, and 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,520 S1: I hope truly that you will hear something that will encourage, edify, 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,200 S1: equip and enlighten you to get out there and influence 4 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:10,879 S1: and occupy until he comes. And on that note, may 5 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:12,799 S1: I take just a few moments here to describe this 6 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,800 S1: month's truth tool? It's by pastor Jack Hibbs. He's written 7 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,599 S1: the book called Called to Take a Bold Stand. I 8 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,079 S1: absolutely love this book because it reminds us that in 9 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,200 S1: Christ all things pass away. All things become new, that 10 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,760 S1: we are standing for his truth, that we have a 11 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,640 S1: new nature. Because of him, we should be living boldly. 12 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,080 S1: But far too often we retreat out of fear from 13 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,080 S1: cultural blowback. So I want to encourage all of us 14 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,519 S1: to just stand up for Christ, to be unashamed of 15 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:39,479 S1: who we are in him, and to go into a 16 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,599 S1: culture that's telling us in no uncertain terms. They're lost 17 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,720 S1: and they're hurting. So if you'd like a copy of 18 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,880 S1: Pastor Hibbs new book called Call to Take a Bold Stand, 19 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,720 S1: just give a gift of any amount by calling eight, seven, seven. 20 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,680 S1: Janet 58. We are listener supported radio, and this is 21 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,640 S1: my way of saying thank you. So that number again 22 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,200 S1: is 877 Janet 58. Or you can go online in 23 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,090 S1: the market with Janet dot o r g. Go to 24 00:01:02,130 --> 00:01:04,210 S1: the bottom of the page. There's the cover of Pastor 25 00:01:04,209 --> 00:01:06,690 S1: Jack's book. Click it on, give a gift and you'll 26 00:01:06,690 --> 00:01:08,210 S1: be good to go. And we'll send you a copy 27 00:01:08,209 --> 00:01:10,050 S1: as a way of saying thank you. Don't forget, you 28 00:01:10,050 --> 00:01:12,530 S1: can also become a partial partner. Those are people who 29 00:01:12,530 --> 00:01:15,210 S1: give every single month at a level of their own choosing. 30 00:01:15,250 --> 00:01:17,210 S1: My way of saying thank you to the partial partners 31 00:01:17,209 --> 00:01:18,770 S1: is to make sure you get a copy of each 32 00:01:18,810 --> 00:01:21,649 S1: month's truth tool, and you get our weekly newsletter, which 33 00:01:21,690 --> 00:01:24,290 S1: includes some of my writing and an audio piece only 34 00:01:24,290 --> 00:01:26,770 S1: for my partial partners. So whether it's a one time 35 00:01:26,770 --> 00:01:28,610 S1: gift or you want to be an ongoing giver and 36 00:01:28,610 --> 00:01:30,929 S1: become a partial partner, that's your call. But I want 37 00:01:30,930 --> 00:01:34,050 S1: to thank you in advance. Eight seven, seven Janet 58. 38 00:01:34,050 --> 00:01:37,330 S1: Or online at In the Market with Janet Parshall. Now 39 00:01:37,330 --> 00:01:39,170 S1: please enjoy the broadcast. 40 00:01:39,970 --> 00:01:41,490 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 41 00:01:41,770 --> 00:01:44,010 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 42 00:01:44,209 --> 00:01:46,250 S4: Americans worshiping government over God. 43 00:01:46,569 --> 00:01:49,970 S5: Extremely rare safety move by a 17 years. 44 00:01:49,970 --> 00:01:52,050 S4: The Palestinians and the Israelis negotiated. 45 00:02:07,940 --> 00:02:08,660 S5: Hi friends. 46 00:02:08,660 --> 00:02:11,020 S1: Welcome to In the Market with Janet Partial. So glad 47 00:02:11,020 --> 00:02:13,139 S1: you're with us. Got your dialing fingers ready. Good, because 48 00:02:13,139 --> 00:02:18,300 S1: you're going to need them. (877) 548-3675. Why you ask? AM 49 00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:20,340 S1: I giving you the number? Well, I'm going to read 50 00:02:20,340 --> 00:02:22,020 S1: you an article, and I bet you can deduce who 51 00:02:22,060 --> 00:02:24,300 S1: our guest is going to be. But in the meantime, 52 00:02:24,300 --> 00:02:30,700 S1: keep this handy because the questions are going to come. (877) 548-3675. Um. 53 00:02:31,260 --> 00:02:34,820 S1: What is a tech coarsest. Okay. T e c h 54 00:02:34,860 --> 00:02:38,100 S1: hyphen c o r c I s t. Well, I'm 55 00:02:38,100 --> 00:02:39,500 S1: going to explain that to you. This is a piece 56 00:02:39,500 --> 00:02:41,459 S1: that showed up in the New York Post, of all places. 57 00:02:41,820 --> 00:02:45,020 S1: So apparently, with religious rifts widening around the globe, an 58 00:02:45,020 --> 00:02:48,419 S1: enterprising Christian leader has devised a way to unite the 59 00:02:48,419 --> 00:02:52,100 S1: face against a common foe. It's a Mexican priest by 60 00:02:52,100 --> 00:02:56,859 S1: the name of Father Luis Ramirez Almanza. He's inviting rabbis, 61 00:02:56,900 --> 00:03:01,900 S1: imams and evangelical preachers to join a special exorcism training 62 00:03:01,900 --> 00:03:05,540 S1: class that, among other evils, specializes in battling the scourge 63 00:03:05,540 --> 00:03:10,460 S1: of AI fueled Satanism. Yeah, AI fueled Satanism. I want 64 00:03:10,460 --> 00:03:12,140 S1: to make sure you got that. This is being the 65 00:03:12,139 --> 00:03:13,580 S1: New York Post picked up on this, but it was 66 00:03:13,580 --> 00:03:17,860 S1: reported first in the Times of London. Artificial intelligence is 67 00:03:17,860 --> 00:03:21,019 S1: a great power, a force for both good and evil, 68 00:03:21,020 --> 00:03:25,500 S1: and can therefore be used for devil worshipping, said this priest. 69 00:03:25,660 --> 00:03:28,260 S1: He warned this at a press conference announcing his class 70 00:03:28,260 --> 00:03:31,460 S1: called a course on the Ministry of Exorcism and Prayer 71 00:03:31,460 --> 00:03:35,780 S1: of Deliverance. So apparently it was held at some Vatican 72 00:03:35,780 --> 00:03:39,620 S1: affiliated university, which is apparently kind of niche training that 73 00:03:39,620 --> 00:03:45,540 S1: draws over 170 participants interested in performing exorcism. The participants 74 00:03:45,540 --> 00:03:51,860 S1: aren't granted the authority to conduct a demon ectomy. That's 75 00:03:51,860 --> 00:03:55,310 S1: the New York Post's word that theologically incorrect. We'll get 76 00:03:55,310 --> 00:03:57,790 S1: back to that demon Ectomy. Hang on to that. And 77 00:03:57,790 --> 00:04:00,270 S1: by the way, also, the other part of that statement 78 00:04:00,270 --> 00:04:03,470 S1: is they don't have the authority. We're going to tell 79 00:04:03,470 --> 00:04:05,390 S1: you who has the authority to cast out demons. So 80 00:04:05,390 --> 00:04:08,470 S1: hang on to that. That license can only be bestowed by, 81 00:04:08,510 --> 00:04:12,670 S1: apparently a bishop per Catholic canon law. So the university 82 00:04:12,670 --> 00:04:15,270 S1: promises on its website to, quote, deepen their knowledge of 83 00:04:15,270 --> 00:04:18,510 S1: the Ministry of exorcism and deliverance prayer in a serious 84 00:04:18,510 --> 00:04:23,390 S1: and interdisciplinary way. So apparently there was a special emphasis 85 00:04:23,390 --> 00:04:28,830 S1: on AI use among Lucifer enthusiasts. So there is another 86 00:04:28,830 --> 00:04:32,710 S1: priest who fights child sexual abuse and was speaking at 87 00:04:32,710 --> 00:04:35,190 S1: the session in May. In fact, he's going to be 88 00:04:35,190 --> 00:04:37,910 S1: speaking at another session coming up. Claims that some satanic 89 00:04:37,910 --> 00:04:41,470 S1: groups are already experimenting with the tech. Ooh, we believe 90 00:04:41,470 --> 00:04:44,349 S1: these groups are using AI to generate images of children 91 00:04:44,350 --> 00:04:47,909 S1: involved in satanic rites, said this particular priest to The 92 00:04:47,910 --> 00:04:51,270 S1: Times of London. Using children appeals to them because it's 93 00:04:51,270 --> 00:04:54,480 S1: a form of power being Exercise. Exercise, no pun intended. 94 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:59,679 S1: Not exorcise. Exercised over the innocent. Researchers tracking cult activity 95 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,440 S1: say the digital devilry. This is the New York Post, again, 96 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,320 S1: isn't just theoretical. Apparently, a person who runs the Catholic 97 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,400 S1: Risk and Insurance Services, which is a research group that 98 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,880 S1: monitors cults and fringe religious movements, said that law enforcement 99 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,200 S1: now has warned that occult groups are turning to AI 100 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:21,520 S1: tools to cloak their activities online. In fact, the outlet 101 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,279 S1: said police tell us Satanists are using AI to hide 102 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,400 S1: their content online and communicate with each other. This is 103 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,240 S1: why we do so many conversations about AI. That new bright, 104 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,840 S1: shiny thing. Buyer beware. Another speaker scheduled for the course 105 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,400 S1: will explore how modern day occultists are using generative AI 106 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,839 S1: to design ritual symbols and imagery. Yeah, giving ancient mysticism 107 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:47,400 S1: a distinctly 21st century makeover. Oh. How interesting. So apparently, 108 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,200 S1: the Vatican has been increasingly vocal about the risks of 109 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:55,650 S1: runaway technology. A senior official in the Vatican's uh center 110 00:05:55,650 --> 00:05:58,530 S1: for Culture and Education warns the technology could open the 111 00:05:58,529 --> 00:06:02,890 S1: door to disturbing new trends, including biological weapons, propaganda, disinformation 112 00:06:02,890 --> 00:06:07,210 S1: and systems, which are beyond human control. But in the meantime, 113 00:06:07,250 --> 00:06:10,089 S1: church officials have also warned that AI could reshape society 114 00:06:10,089 --> 00:06:14,090 S1: in ways that undermine human dignity, privacy and even people's livelihoods. 115 00:06:14,170 --> 00:06:17,090 S1: For now, though, the Rome training course is focused on 116 00:06:17,089 --> 00:06:20,330 S1: a far more ancient enemy, even if it may now 117 00:06:20,330 --> 00:06:25,610 S1: come with high speed internet connection. As previously reported by 118 00:06:25,610 --> 00:06:28,970 S1: The post in 2014, AI has already crept into some 119 00:06:28,970 --> 00:06:32,690 S1: corners of modern worship. A church in Switzerland stunned the internet. 120 00:06:32,690 --> 00:06:35,450 S1: We talked about this on this program, using an AI 121 00:06:35,490 --> 00:06:39,770 S1: powered hologram of Jesus design designed to hear confessions from 122 00:06:39,770 --> 00:06:43,410 S1: Catholic worshippers, a surreal spectacle that was captured in a 123 00:06:43,410 --> 00:06:49,010 S1: viral video. The experimental installation installation rather sits inside a 124 00:06:49,010 --> 00:06:53,409 S1: confessional booth inside a church where a screen. Oh, brother, 125 00:06:53,450 --> 00:06:55,490 S1: we have one mediator between God and man. But let 126 00:06:55,490 --> 00:06:58,130 S1: me continue with the article where a screen displays an 127 00:06:58,170 --> 00:07:00,650 S1: animated image of Jesus behind its traditional gate. Why do 128 00:07:00,650 --> 00:07:02,770 S1: you need an animated Jesus when you can boldly approach 129 00:07:02,770 --> 00:07:04,690 S1: the throne of grace? I don't get this. I digress 130 00:07:04,690 --> 00:07:08,170 S1: back to the article. The digitally rendered face analyzes each 131 00:07:08,170 --> 00:07:12,090 S1: visitor's words and generates a response. Yes, really heartfelt with 132 00:07:12,090 --> 00:07:15,050 S1: the avatar. The lips are moving in sync as it 133 00:07:15,090 --> 00:07:18,450 S1: dishes out advice from a virtual pulpit. It's zeros and 134 00:07:18,450 --> 00:07:21,810 S1: ones and a motherboard. You can talk to God. I 135 00:07:21,810 --> 00:07:25,250 S1: don't get this anyway. For clergy sounding the alarm about 136 00:07:25,290 --> 00:07:28,170 S1: AI fueled Satanism, it's yet another sign about the battle 137 00:07:28,210 --> 00:07:31,130 S1: between faith and technology that may be entering into a 138 00:07:31,130 --> 00:07:33,810 S1: strange new chapter. Can you guess who I'm going to 139 00:07:33,810 --> 00:07:37,330 S1: talk to? If you said Doctor Carl Pain touch down, 140 00:07:37,330 --> 00:07:39,170 S1: you got it right. I'm so glad he's with us. 141 00:07:39,170 --> 00:07:41,250 S1: We're going to take your calls on anything dealing with 142 00:07:41,250 --> 00:07:50,340 S1: spiritual warfare at 87754836758775483675. Doctor. Carl Payne, pastor, teacher, speaker, author, 143 00:07:50,340 --> 00:07:53,900 S1: former NFL chaplain for the Seattle Seahawks. They all got 144 00:07:53,900 --> 00:07:55,980 S1: that ring now and they're all going to Disneyland. He's 145 00:07:56,020 --> 00:07:58,820 S1: on staff at Antioch Bible Church in Redmond, Washington. His 146 00:07:58,820 --> 00:08:01,179 S1: primary role there is serving as the pastor of leadership 147 00:08:01,180 --> 00:08:04,820 S1: development and discipleship training. Fabulous writer wrote the book. I 148 00:08:04,820 --> 00:08:06,620 S1: think that every single one of you should have as 149 00:08:06,620 --> 00:08:11,060 S1: part of your legacy library. It's called spiritual Warfare Christians 150 00:08:11,060 --> 00:08:14,380 S1: demonization and deliverance. So good. It's been updated and reprinted 151 00:08:14,380 --> 00:08:17,860 S1: as well. So as the lines light up, welcome doctor 152 00:08:17,860 --> 00:08:20,020 S1: Carl Payne. So what do you think about that? AI 153 00:08:20,020 --> 00:08:23,460 S1: and Satanism. Oh boy. Things are getting curiouser and curiouser. 154 00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:28,660 S6: Well, young lady first. Good afternoon. Thank you sir. With 155 00:08:28,660 --> 00:08:33,100 S6: you it was a privilege. Uh, I just, you know, 156 00:08:33,140 --> 00:08:36,220 S6: I'm just listening to you, and if I'm, uh, shaking 157 00:08:36,220 --> 00:08:40,939 S6: my head either honestly or just, you know, in my mind, 158 00:08:40,980 --> 00:08:45,980 S6: you just go, my, oh, my. I thought about second 159 00:08:45,980 --> 00:08:50,270 S6: Timothy 215. And I thought, as things get crazier and 160 00:08:50,270 --> 00:08:53,069 S6: I think we should expect that, uh, you know, first 161 00:08:53,070 --> 00:08:56,470 S6: Timothy four talks about that and deception and such. How 162 00:08:56,470 --> 00:08:58,510 S6: much do we need to be back to the book 163 00:08:58,550 --> 00:09:02,510 S6: and say, study to show yourself approved a workman of 164 00:09:02,510 --> 00:09:05,189 S6: God that does not have to be ashamed, because the more, 165 00:09:05,390 --> 00:09:07,750 S6: the more there are twists and turns. We need people 166 00:09:07,750 --> 00:09:10,790 S6: that go, where's the straight road? Yeah, we've got to 167 00:09:10,790 --> 00:09:11,350 S6: be on it. 168 00:09:11,870 --> 00:09:14,470 S1: Well, that's why Doctor Carl Payne is going to rightly 169 00:09:14,470 --> 00:09:16,750 S1: divide the word of truth this hour. And he's going 170 00:09:16,790 --> 00:09:19,750 S1: to take any questions you've got on spiritual warfare. By 171 00:09:19,750 --> 00:09:22,070 S1: the way do you have to have a crucifix. Do 172 00:09:22,070 --> 00:09:23,630 S1: you have to have holy water. Does it have to 173 00:09:23,630 --> 00:09:25,709 S1: be a priest? Can only certain people cast out demons? 174 00:09:25,750 --> 00:09:28,230 S1: I mean, there's a couple of starter questions you ask. 175 00:09:28,270 --> 00:09:29,910 S1: I'm pretty sure Doctor Carl Pain is going to have 176 00:09:29,910 --> 00:09:31,550 S1: an answer. Stick around. This is going to be great. 177 00:09:31,550 --> 00:09:44,510 S1: Much more after this. The Bible calls us to stand 178 00:09:44,510 --> 00:09:46,719 S1: for his truth that we are in Christ and that 179 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,480 S1: we have a new nature because of him. So why 180 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,080 S1: don't we live boldly? That's why I've chosen call to 181 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,280 S1: take a bold stand by pastor Jack Hibbs as this 182 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,880 S1: month's truth tool. Discover how to stand firmly in your 183 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,400 S1: faith and make every moment count for him. As for 184 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:00,480 S1: your copy of call to take a bold stand when 185 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,440 S1: you give a gift of any amount to in the market, 186 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,920 S1: call 877. Janet 58. That's 877. Janet 58. Or go 187 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:11,880 S1: to in the market with Janet Parshall, your. Doctor Carl 188 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:13,720 S1: Payne is with us. He is the author of a 189 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,559 S1: fabulous book on the topic we're discussing. It's called Spiritual 190 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,920 S1: Warfare Christians Demonization and Deliverance. And by the way, it's 191 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,160 S1: right there on our information page so that you can 192 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:24,880 S1: click on through and get your copy. And I know 193 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,240 S1: so many of you, because Carl is a regular guest 194 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,280 S1: on this program, so many of you have gotten this 195 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,520 S1: book and your feedback has been delightful. I know that 196 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,240 S1: it's impacted you as much as it's impact me. Let 197 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:35,760 S1: me just linger a little bit because I know there's 198 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,280 S1: more you want to say about this New York Post 199 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,640 S1: Times of London peace. And I want to go to 200 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,559 S1: some of the things. It's the secular press. I don't 201 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,490 S1: let the secular press teach me theology, but the idea 202 00:10:44,490 --> 00:10:49,050 S1: that only certain people can cast out demons. Um, can you, uh, pastor, 203 00:10:49,090 --> 00:10:50,930 S1: can you clarify that for us? Is that true? 204 00:10:51,370 --> 00:10:53,570 S6: Yeah. I was glad you picked up on that, because 205 00:10:53,570 --> 00:10:55,570 S6: that sure caught me too. And I'll tell you the 206 00:10:55,570 --> 00:11:00,250 S6: first thing. Well, first, the answer's no. That's not true. That, uh, 207 00:11:00,250 --> 00:11:05,330 S6: you know, only only a certain group of people with 208 00:11:05,330 --> 00:11:09,010 S6: particular titles or denominational ties are able to work with this. 209 00:11:09,010 --> 00:11:12,730 S6: And I've been told that, you know, before, uh, and 210 00:11:12,730 --> 00:11:15,410 S6: you would and I guess you would expect it sometimes 211 00:11:15,410 --> 00:11:18,330 S6: from the church at Rome, you know, the Roman Catholic Church, 212 00:11:18,370 --> 00:11:20,530 S6: you know, only priests can do this, or they have 213 00:11:20,530 --> 00:11:24,490 S6: their father acts who flies the world or, you know, 214 00:11:24,530 --> 00:11:27,370 S6: their training groups of people. But I don't think it's 215 00:11:27,370 --> 00:11:31,050 S6: reserved just for them. I mean, I've, I've heard, uh, 216 00:11:31,050 --> 00:11:35,650 S6: folks from different Protestant groups, uh, sometimes, I mean, there'd 217 00:11:35,690 --> 00:11:38,530 S6: be a lot of affiliations, but I think immediately of 218 00:11:38,530 --> 00:11:41,650 S6: the Na, the New Apostolic Reformation group that at least 219 00:11:41,650 --> 00:11:44,170 S6: for some of them, that if you're not one of 220 00:11:44,170 --> 00:11:46,450 S6: the apostles or one of the prophets, you don't have 221 00:11:46,450 --> 00:11:49,210 S6: the authority to deal with frontline demons. You know, the 222 00:11:49,210 --> 00:11:52,490 S6: big boys, you can only deal with grunts. And you know, 223 00:11:52,530 --> 00:11:54,970 S6: if you're going to deal with the real strong ones, 224 00:11:54,970 --> 00:11:58,290 S6: you've got to have someone who's in affiliation with them 225 00:11:58,290 --> 00:12:00,490 S6: and underneath their umbrella. Well, I would say that to 226 00:12:00,490 --> 00:12:05,250 S6: me is just as, uh, biblically illiterate. I'm sure it's 227 00:12:05,250 --> 00:12:08,530 S6: sincerely believed as someone telling me that only a Roman 228 00:12:08,530 --> 00:12:13,090 S6: Catholic priest has delegated authority. Jesus Christ said to us, 229 00:12:13,410 --> 00:12:15,330 S6: and you know the verse, you can probably quote it 230 00:12:15,370 --> 00:12:18,890 S6: quicker than me, but in Luke chapter ten, 18 to 20, 231 00:12:18,929 --> 00:12:21,929 S6: he says, I watched Satan fall from heaven like lightning. 232 00:12:21,929 --> 00:12:24,530 S6: I have given you authority and we can ask, who's 233 00:12:24,530 --> 00:12:27,089 S6: the you? And he answers it in verse 20. I 234 00:12:27,090 --> 00:12:29,689 S6: have given you authority to tread upon the serpents, scorpions, 235 00:12:29,690 --> 00:12:32,370 S6: and over all. So there's no division in his mind 236 00:12:32,370 --> 00:12:35,010 S6: between the big boys or the grunts. All the powers 237 00:12:35,010 --> 00:12:38,290 S6: of the enemy shall nowise harm you, however, or. Nevertheless, 238 00:12:38,530 --> 00:12:41,660 S6: do not rejoice, because spirits are subject to. You rejoice 239 00:12:41,660 --> 00:12:45,340 S6: because your names are recorded in heaven. And I have said, 240 00:12:45,340 --> 00:12:48,579 S6: there will be nobody in heaven whose name is not 241 00:12:48,580 --> 00:12:51,100 S6: recorded in heaven in the Lamb's Book of Life. So 242 00:12:51,100 --> 00:12:54,060 S6: you can say he initially delegated authority to the 12, 243 00:12:54,059 --> 00:12:57,179 S6: and then he delegated the authority to, in verse 17 244 00:12:57,220 --> 00:12:59,820 S6: of the same chapter to the 70. He ends up 245 00:12:59,820 --> 00:13:03,940 S6: saying that anyone whose name is written in heaven or 246 00:13:03,940 --> 00:13:06,740 S6: in the Lamb's Book of Life has been delegated authority 247 00:13:06,780 --> 00:13:09,620 S6: doesn't say over some. It says over all, and it 248 00:13:09,620 --> 00:13:12,460 S6: doesn't say if they're Baptist or if they're Pentecostal, or 249 00:13:12,460 --> 00:13:15,420 S6: if they're Roman Catholic or if they're evangelical free or, 250 00:13:15,540 --> 00:13:19,780 S6: you know, the, you know, Bible church or whatever. It's 251 00:13:19,780 --> 00:13:22,460 S6: either you are in Christ, and if you're in Christ, 252 00:13:22,460 --> 00:13:25,620 S6: you've been delegated that authority or you're outside of Christ. 253 00:13:25,620 --> 00:13:27,860 S6: And if that's the case, you would look at in 254 00:13:27,860 --> 00:13:30,420 S6: acts 19 with the sons of Skiva and say, don't 255 00:13:30,420 --> 00:13:33,620 S6: mess with stuff that you're not equipped to mess with. So, 256 00:13:33,860 --> 00:13:36,459 S6: so yes, the ones who say that kind of thing. 257 00:13:37,220 --> 00:13:40,590 S6: I can remember speaking recently in Southern California. Well, recently 258 00:13:40,590 --> 00:13:45,270 S6: it was last year, but. And a whole church, large 259 00:13:45,270 --> 00:13:48,550 S6: church wanted to say we'd like to, you know, become 260 00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:50,870 S6: more conversant with this and actually like to start working 261 00:13:50,870 --> 00:13:53,750 S6: with this. And one of the last things I shared, Janet, 262 00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:56,470 S6: was I said, I said to the pastor, do not 263 00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:59,630 S6: allow your church to start a Green Beret team. And 264 00:13:59,630 --> 00:14:01,910 S6: he said, what do you mean? And I said, well, 265 00:14:01,910 --> 00:14:04,190 S6: you know, if you if you work with demons, somehow 266 00:14:04,190 --> 00:14:06,670 S6: your God's Green Beret and, you know, we kind of 267 00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:08,470 S6: get our own hats and we get our own room 268 00:14:08,470 --> 00:14:12,590 S6: and our own chairs or whatever. I said, stepping on 269 00:14:12,590 --> 00:14:15,910 S6: demons over all the power of the enemy is supposed 270 00:14:15,910 --> 00:14:18,469 S6: to be somebody who is in Christ says, I'm here 271 00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:22,670 S6: to resist them, not run from them. And, and to 272 00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:24,910 S6: try and make it some kind of a, a thing 273 00:14:24,910 --> 00:14:26,910 S6: that if you don't have such and such a title, 274 00:14:26,910 --> 00:14:28,830 S6: or if you don't have, you know, X amount of 275 00:14:28,830 --> 00:14:31,670 S6: verses memorized or whatever it is, I will just go. 276 00:14:31,710 --> 00:14:35,390 S6: It may sell books, it may bring people to conferences, 277 00:14:35,630 --> 00:14:38,040 S6: but biblically it will not stand a the test of. 278 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,920 S6: Is that consistent with Scripture? So when you hear the 279 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,480 S6: kind of things like you were saying being quoted there, 280 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,120 S6: I just. Of course it saddens me because I know 281 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,000 S6: how real this is. I know you do too. And 282 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,440 S6: the more the silly things are said, it just gives 283 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,680 S6: fodder to the people from whatever side that are wanting 284 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,880 S6: to just mock all of it. Whether it's the secularists 285 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:03,320 S6: going this is ignorant or whether it's the, the, you know, 286 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,920 S6: someone you know who's actually born again, but saying, I 287 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:07,520 S6: don't want to deal with it, you know, let the 288 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,200 S6: missionaries deal with it. Just it just gives fodder. And 289 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,440 S6: so of course, I don't like it, but that's probably 290 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,320 S6: why it's popular in the secular press. 291 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,680 S1: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Thank you for what you 292 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,840 S1: just said. I'll tell you what else bothers me about 293 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,080 S1: this is that, um, how can I be an overcomer 294 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,160 S1: if you have to have a certain rank, a certain office, 295 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,760 S1: a certain place in the hierarchy of the church, um, 296 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:32,600 S1: and you're the only one who has the authority, doesn't 297 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,920 S1: it belie what we've been told in Scripture that I 298 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,570 S1: have victory in Jesus? And not only that, but it 299 00:15:37,570 --> 00:15:40,370 S1: isn't ultimately about you or me. It's about Christ doing 300 00:15:40,370 --> 00:15:41,210 S1: the work, isn't it? 301 00:15:41,250 --> 00:15:44,730 S6: Oh, absolutely. You know, it's funny, I'm teaching a new 302 00:15:44,730 --> 00:15:48,450 S6: members class right now on Wednesday nights and took a 303 00:15:48,450 --> 00:15:51,090 S6: break from David Jeremiah's book. We finished that and we'll 304 00:15:51,090 --> 00:15:54,570 S6: start something else later. But one of the questions that 305 00:15:54,570 --> 00:15:58,370 S6: came up was about, you know, the overcomers in chapters 306 00:15:58,370 --> 00:16:01,010 S6: two and three of the book of the revelation. And 307 00:16:01,010 --> 00:16:03,770 S6: what was brought up was, does that mean in revelation 308 00:16:03,770 --> 00:16:07,250 S6: three five that you can lose your salvation because your 309 00:16:07,250 --> 00:16:09,890 S6: name can be erased from the book of life? And 310 00:16:09,890 --> 00:16:13,010 S6: I said, oh, that's used very popularly in some as 311 00:16:13,010 --> 00:16:15,130 S6: kind of a proof text. And I'm going to tie 312 00:16:15,130 --> 00:16:18,330 S6: this back into what you're saying with the overcomers. I said, actually, 313 00:16:18,370 --> 00:16:22,050 S6: Grace could write with what we call them classes, class conditions. 314 00:16:22,050 --> 00:16:24,410 S6: And there were four of them. And I said, the 315 00:16:24,410 --> 00:16:27,450 S6: third class condition is what you're talking about. It's our 316 00:16:27,490 --> 00:16:29,850 S6: if then, you know, if you overcome, then I won't 317 00:16:29,890 --> 00:16:32,090 S6: erase your name from the Book of Life. Or if 318 00:16:32,130 --> 00:16:34,810 S6: you overcome, then you will eat from the Tree of Life. 319 00:16:34,930 --> 00:16:37,370 S6: I said the wonderful thing about those. For anyone that 320 00:16:37,370 --> 00:16:40,090 S6: reads coin A, they're first class conditions, and those are 321 00:16:40,090 --> 00:16:43,170 S6: just statements of fact to the one who overcomes. And 322 00:16:43,170 --> 00:16:46,250 S6: you are. I will never erase your name to the 323 00:16:46,250 --> 00:16:49,250 S6: one who overcomes. You will eat from the tree of life. 324 00:16:49,370 --> 00:16:52,210 S6: And I said, rather than something conditional, like some kind 325 00:16:52,210 --> 00:16:54,130 S6: of sword hanging over your head, that he's going to 326 00:16:54,130 --> 00:16:57,690 S6: cut you loose. Those were actually promises that because you're 327 00:16:57,690 --> 00:17:01,290 S6: an overcomer and you are, these things are true. We 328 00:17:01,290 --> 00:17:03,850 S6: need to learn how to walk like victors instead of 329 00:17:03,850 --> 00:17:05,610 S6: playing the game of the victim. 330 00:17:05,650 --> 00:17:09,210 S1: Amen. Exclamation point. Over and over again. Wow. When we 331 00:17:09,250 --> 00:17:12,730 S1: come back, let me take some of your calls. 877. Five. 483. 332 00:17:12,770 --> 00:17:15,450 S1: Six seven. Five. Doctor Carl Payne is our guest. Our 333 00:17:15,450 --> 00:17:22,370 S1: topic is spiritual warfare. Any question you've got (877) 548-3675. Much 334 00:17:22,369 --> 00:17:49,100 S1: more coming your way right after this. (877) 548-3675. That's our 335 00:17:49,100 --> 00:17:51,100 S1: number here on in the market with Janet Parshall as 336 00:17:51,100 --> 00:17:54,100 S1: we visit with Doctor Carl Payne talking about the subject 337 00:17:54,100 --> 00:17:56,699 S1: of spiritual warfare. Brenda in New Hampshire, thank you so 338 00:17:56,700 --> 00:17:59,700 S1: much for being a part of this conversation. Your question please. 339 00:18:00,859 --> 00:18:04,420 S7: Thank you. I appreciate your taking my question. My question 340 00:18:04,420 --> 00:18:09,140 S7: comes from Matthew chapter ten. When Jesus sent his apostles 341 00:18:09,140 --> 00:18:13,260 S7: out with authority and power to heal. Um, if Judas 342 00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:16,820 S7: was one of them, how was he given the power 343 00:18:16,820 --> 00:18:19,420 S7: and authority if he was demon possessed? 344 00:18:21,380 --> 00:18:24,660 S6: Um, well, I think what you would say, at least 345 00:18:24,660 --> 00:18:29,900 S6: I would say, um, I'll take a cheeky response and say, 346 00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:34,230 S6: God Almighty can certainly do anything he wants. But I 347 00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:39,790 S6: would say, secondly, I believe it's in in the John 348 00:18:39,790 --> 00:18:44,910 S6: 13 through 17 where it says that Satan entered Judas. 349 00:18:45,550 --> 00:18:48,470 S6: So I don't know that at the beginning of his 350 00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:53,670 S6: ministry were ever told that that, uh, that Judas was 351 00:18:53,670 --> 00:18:56,710 S6: demon possessed. What we're told in John six was that 352 00:18:56,710 --> 00:19:00,429 S6: Jesus knew the ones who would believe in him, and 353 00:19:00,430 --> 00:19:04,389 S6: that Judas didn't. So when people use Judas as a 354 00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:06,710 S6: way of saying, you know, look how rough it can 355 00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:10,590 S6: go for Christians who have salvation and lose salvation, I 356 00:19:10,590 --> 00:19:12,630 S6: would say, well, Jesus said he was a devil from 357 00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:17,750 S6: the beginning, or he qualified as a non-believer. But I've 358 00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:20,270 S6: been in churches long enough to see many times where 359 00:19:20,270 --> 00:19:23,430 S6: people have they know the lingo. They've got the titles, 360 00:19:23,790 --> 00:19:27,030 S6: but they sure don't know the Lord Jesus sometimes. So I, 361 00:19:27,030 --> 00:19:30,800 S6: I don't know that that, uh, I don't know that that, 362 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,360 S6: you know, would, would, would make a particular difference. And 363 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:39,360 S6: if someone says, is there only one side that has authority, uh, to, 364 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,520 S6: to be able to work miracles and such, that clearly 365 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,600 S6: isn't true. The book of revelation makes that very clear. 366 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,280 S6: When Antichrist and the false prophet and such are going 367 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:54,080 S6: to be working miracles and dazzling people. So if someone said, uh, if, 368 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,679 S6: if the Holy Spirit can come upon Saul and God 369 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,680 S6: can and he can be used and identified as one 370 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:07,560 S6: of the prophets, uh, you know, according to, you know, uh, for, 371 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,400 S6: you know, talking about, uh, King Saul and yet he's 372 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,240 S6: also chasing David around with a spear and trying to 373 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,160 S6: kill him and such. I would say, uh, why would 374 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,040 S6: I be shocked that if Jesus delegated authority to the 375 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,720 S6: 12 and they were involved with this? And I guess 376 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,119 S6: I could say one more thing, and this is from silence. 377 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,240 S6: So I wouldn't stand too hard on this. But when 378 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,720 S6: it says they were, I mean, I'm assuming that they 379 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,800 S6: all were. That would be a normal assumption. But the. 380 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,680 S6: I don't know that the Scripture says. And Judas was 381 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,639 S6: also working miracles with them. We just assumed because he 382 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,840 S6: was with the group, he was. Uh, if this doesn't 383 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,080 S6: sound snide and I don't mean it to. I've been 384 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,720 S6: out so many times sharing the faith where people will 385 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,520 S6: tell me about their great evangelistic abilities and that kind 386 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,439 S6: of thing. And then when we go out, they'll say, Carl, 387 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,320 S6: you talk and I'll pray for you. And then when 388 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,480 S6: we go back in to do the reporting, they'll say, yeah, 389 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,119 S6: we had a great time sharing with people. And I 390 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,240 S6: want to look over my shoulder and say, what mouse 391 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,000 S6: are you talking about? I mean, you didn't open your mouth. 392 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,680 S6: So because someone is included in a group does not 393 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,200 S6: necessarily mean they're involved in the actual action. Is that 394 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,119 S6: true or not of Judas? I don't know if I 395 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,760 S6: said I know I'd be arguing from silence, but there 396 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,840 S6: are a lot of things that, uh, that I see 397 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:28,290 S6: that especially during the time of Jesus, I would say unusual. Uh, 398 00:21:28,369 --> 00:21:31,889 S6: did did Peter walk on water? Uh, yeah. AM I 399 00:21:31,930 --> 00:21:36,090 S6: going to try that trick? No. Um. And yet, you know, 400 00:21:36,130 --> 00:21:38,690 S6: the same Jesus. He knew, I knew. So I'm just saying, 401 00:21:38,690 --> 00:21:42,170 S6: I think sometimes they were kind of unique situations. How 402 00:21:42,210 --> 00:21:45,290 S6: Judas fit exactly into that, I guess. I don't know 403 00:21:45,290 --> 00:21:48,729 S6: exactly how he fit. What I know is what Scripture teaches. 404 00:21:48,730 --> 00:21:51,210 S6: And what Scripture teaches is that he had never believed 405 00:21:51,210 --> 00:21:53,690 S6: in Christ, and Christ identified him as a devil from 406 00:21:53,690 --> 00:21:57,290 S6: the beginning. And Psalm 41 says that as a friend, 407 00:21:57,290 --> 00:21:59,570 S6: he would betray him. I mean, you see little things 408 00:21:59,570 --> 00:22:05,170 S6: going on that help identify him and even even messianic prophecy, 409 00:22:05,410 --> 00:22:08,570 S6: not by name, but by action. But why he could 410 00:22:08,609 --> 00:22:11,330 S6: or couldn't do. I got one more. One more thought. 411 00:22:11,810 --> 00:22:13,490 S6: And I know this begs the question a little bit 412 00:22:13,490 --> 00:22:16,290 S6: because it says Jesus gave them, you know, authority to 413 00:22:16,330 --> 00:22:18,730 S6: go out and do this. And I so I accept that. 414 00:22:19,170 --> 00:22:22,890 S6: But when when the sons of Skiva in chapter 19 415 00:22:22,930 --> 00:22:25,780 S6: were attempting to cast out demons, I am sure that 416 00:22:25,780 --> 00:22:28,820 S6: they had watched their father and others do that, and 417 00:22:28,820 --> 00:22:33,020 S6: yet they were not believers in Christ. They hadn't received him. 418 00:22:33,020 --> 00:22:35,660 S6: So to assume that the only ones who can be 419 00:22:35,660 --> 00:22:40,660 S6: involved in miraculous things is dangerous, because it's not true. 420 00:22:40,940 --> 00:22:45,220 S6: And if we condition Christians to thinking, you know, miracles 421 00:22:45,220 --> 00:22:47,859 S6: are normative and everyone can do them and they happen 422 00:22:47,859 --> 00:22:49,580 S6: all the time, I'd say, well, a, I guess they're 423 00:22:49,580 --> 00:22:53,100 S6: no longer miracles because they're normative, but B, I don't 424 00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:57,620 S6: think you anywhere see in Scripture, uh, the notion that 425 00:22:57,619 --> 00:23:02,340 S6: everyone is supposed to be involved in, in, uh, you know, 426 00:23:02,380 --> 00:23:05,900 S6: with various gifts. Uh, and let me one more thing. 427 00:23:05,940 --> 00:23:09,860 S6: I'm babbling, but, uh, just as a thought. Casting out 428 00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:13,419 S6: demons is nowhere in the New Testament listed as a gift. 429 00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:18,060 S6: It's listed as a a response with the delegated authority 430 00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:21,580 S6: we've been given that anyone, regardless of gifting, has the 431 00:23:21,580 --> 00:23:24,109 S6: same authority. So I'm just saying, I think there are 432 00:23:24,109 --> 00:23:27,270 S6: things that get shared sometimes. I think some things can 433 00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:29,750 S6: be a little bit hard. I just try and work 434 00:23:29,750 --> 00:23:32,910 S6: through them. I think some things are clichés and those 435 00:23:32,910 --> 00:23:35,190 S6: are easier to work through if you've heard them before. 436 00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:38,510 S6: I don't know exactly how I would answer that question. 437 00:23:38,550 --> 00:23:41,470 S6: You know, it's a good question. If he was delegated authority, 438 00:23:41,510 --> 00:23:44,750 S6: was God allowing him to cast out demons even though 439 00:23:44,750 --> 00:23:47,750 S6: he wasn't one of his? I would say I think scripturally, 440 00:23:47,750 --> 00:23:50,030 S6: the answer is yes. If I would say, can I 441 00:23:50,030 --> 00:23:53,389 S6: explain that? I would say I can ask Jesus about 442 00:23:53,390 --> 00:23:55,190 S6: that when I meet him at the BBC. 443 00:23:55,470 --> 00:23:58,910 S1: MM. Thank you so much, Brenda, for the question. Karl, 444 00:23:58,910 --> 00:24:01,270 S1: thank you so much for the answer. And you weren't babbling, 445 00:24:01,270 --> 00:24:06,470 S1: by the way. Thank you for that. (877) 548-3675. Our topic 446 00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:09,750 S1: is spiritual warfare. Doctor Karl Payne is our guest and 447 00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:11,830 S1: our teacher in this area. And I want to remind 448 00:24:11,830 --> 00:24:14,030 S1: you again, he's got an absolutely fabulous book on this. 449 00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:16,550 S1: It's right there on our information page. It's called Spiritual 450 00:24:16,550 --> 00:24:21,149 S1: Warfare Christians Demonization and Deliverance. Get to the info page. 451 00:24:21,150 --> 00:24:23,040 S1: Click on through and you'll find out how you can 452 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,360 S1: get your own copy. More of your calls and questions 453 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:57,639 S1: when we return at (877) 548-3675. When we tackle tough issues 454 00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,920 S1: on the market, do you find yourself nodding in agreement? 455 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:01,760 S1: Then why not take the next step today and become 456 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,360 S1: a partial partner? Your monthly gift will help to keep 457 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,520 S1: us on the air, and you'll receive exclusive behind the 458 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,520 S1: scenes resources directly from me, like a transcript of my 459 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,280 S1: weekly commentary and exclusive weekly audio briefing and more. Become 460 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,280 S1: one of our partial partners today by calling 877 Janet 461 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,879 S1: 58 or go online to In the Market with Janet 462 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:25,120 S1: Parshall dot o r g. doctor Carl Payne is our guest, pastor, teacher, speaker, 463 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,160 S1: author and former NFL chaplain for the Seattle Seahawks. He's 464 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,080 S1: on staff at the Antioch Bible Church in Redmond, Washington. 465 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,439 S1: His primary job there. He serves as the pastor of 466 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,920 S1: leadership development and discipleship training. He's a wonderful author. And 467 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,800 S1: his book on the topic we're discussing, which is spiritual warfare, 468 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,280 S1: is superb. It's called Spiritual Warfare Christians Demonization and Deliverance. 469 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:54,760 S1: And we're taking your calls at 87754836758775483675. Alison, I'm going 470 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,520 S1: to turn to you next in Illinois. Thanks for being 471 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,360 S1: a part of this. We'd love your question please. 472 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,480 S8: Thank you Janet. I love your show. Um, I am 473 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,320 S8: just wondering if the enemy can hear our thoughts. 474 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,600 S6: Oh, good. Good question. Uh, I know that there are 475 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,120 S6: times that people certainly feel like they can, but what 476 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,930 S6: I would come back to and say, since Satan himself, 477 00:26:22,930 --> 00:26:26,609 S6: the leader of the pack, and his minions are all 478 00:26:26,609 --> 00:26:31,609 S6: created beings, and since God alone is the one who 479 00:26:31,609 --> 00:26:36,609 S6: is omniscient, he's all knowing. He's omnipotent. He's all powerful, 480 00:26:36,770 --> 00:26:40,770 S6: he's everywhere present, etc. I would say, I don't think 481 00:26:40,770 --> 00:26:45,250 S6: we infer that created beings, you know, have the same 482 00:26:45,290 --> 00:26:48,850 S6: abilities that the one who is the creator does. So 483 00:26:48,890 --> 00:26:52,290 S6: if someone said to me, does he know my thoughts 484 00:26:53,210 --> 00:26:56,810 S6: because he understands he's been hanging around me long enough 485 00:26:56,810 --> 00:26:59,770 S6: and he knows, you know, if I toss this in 486 00:26:59,770 --> 00:27:01,889 S6: front of your face, there's a good chance you'll go 487 00:27:01,930 --> 00:27:04,730 S6: this way or that way. You know, kind of like fishing. 488 00:27:04,770 --> 00:27:06,530 S6: You know, you throw the bait out and hope you 489 00:27:06,530 --> 00:27:09,409 S6: can pull the fish will catch it and run with you. 490 00:27:09,890 --> 00:27:12,530 S6: You can say that they can become very good at 491 00:27:12,530 --> 00:27:16,010 S6: understanding my habits, good and bad. My thought life, good 492 00:27:16,010 --> 00:27:20,500 S6: and and bad because of what I do. You know, 493 00:27:20,540 --> 00:27:22,900 S6: they're they're aware of that. So does it mean they 494 00:27:22,900 --> 00:27:25,660 S6: can actually read my thoughts? I don't think know. Does 495 00:27:25,660 --> 00:27:27,860 S6: it mean that they can direct or lead my thinking. 496 00:27:27,859 --> 00:27:31,220 S6: I think the answer is yes. And it's maybe just 497 00:27:31,220 --> 00:27:33,500 S6: one more thought. I think it's why Solomon wrote in 498 00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:35,980 S6: Proverbs 23 seven, as a man thinks in his mind, 499 00:27:35,980 --> 00:27:39,340 S6: so is he. And I said, the short version of that, 500 00:27:39,380 --> 00:27:41,939 S6: you know, from Carl, is that we end up doing 501 00:27:41,940 --> 00:27:45,780 S6: the things we think about. So guard your thinking. I 502 00:27:45,780 --> 00:27:48,180 S6: think it's more important than we think, you know, in 503 00:27:48,180 --> 00:27:51,220 S6: Ephesians 422 through 25, we put off the old man 504 00:27:51,220 --> 00:27:53,660 S6: and put on the new through the renewing of our mind. 505 00:27:54,020 --> 00:27:57,580 S6: So when we have Christians that are filling and gumming 506 00:27:57,580 --> 00:28:00,500 S6: up their mind with things that are just not true 507 00:28:01,100 --> 00:28:04,180 S6: and going, ah, it's just entertainment or whatever, I would go, 508 00:28:04,220 --> 00:28:07,820 S6: I think that's a dangerous thing to do because usually 509 00:28:07,820 --> 00:28:10,740 S6: the things we think about are things we end up rationalizing, 510 00:28:10,740 --> 00:28:12,820 S6: the things we rationalize end up the things we end 511 00:28:12,859 --> 00:28:16,590 S6: up doing. So, um, it's a good question. I just say, 512 00:28:16,590 --> 00:28:19,950 S6: guard your mind. Guard your thoughts. It's it's more important 513 00:28:19,950 --> 00:28:23,270 S6: than than a lot of people, I think, believe. 514 00:28:23,550 --> 00:28:26,310 S1: Mhm. Allison. Thank you. So we're going to go from 515 00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:29,510 S1: Illinois to Florida, and that's where Heidi is. Florida. Welcome, Florida. 516 00:28:29,550 --> 00:28:32,190 S1: Excuse me. Heidi, welcome. Your question please. 517 00:28:33,150 --> 00:28:36,030 S9: Thank you. Janet, I listen to you every day on 518 00:28:36,030 --> 00:28:39,550 S9: my way home from work, and it's wonderful. Thank you, 519 00:28:39,670 --> 00:28:45,550 S9: thank you. So my daughter did two, uh, exorcisms in 520 00:28:45,550 --> 00:28:49,470 S9: Costa Rica about ten years ago, and she has not 521 00:28:49,470 --> 00:28:54,830 S9: been the same since. Um, her family and I are convinced, 522 00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:58,470 S9: I guess, that demons might have, you know, come into 523 00:28:58,510 --> 00:29:05,030 S9: her because now she's completely different person changed. She's like 524 00:29:05,350 --> 00:29:09,590 S9: doing drugs and can't stay away and can't stay on 525 00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:15,510 S9: the straight and narrow, but still loves God. It's very difficult. What? 526 00:29:16,550 --> 00:29:17,590 S9: Is that possible? 527 00:29:19,630 --> 00:29:21,830 S6: Um, well, let me catch it a couple of ways. 528 00:29:21,830 --> 00:29:24,830 S6: And one, you just gave me a real easy feed 529 00:29:24,830 --> 00:29:28,550 S6: into something I wanted to share earlier from something Janet said. 530 00:29:28,830 --> 00:29:31,990 S6: I think it ties in when she was talking about overcomers. 531 00:29:32,670 --> 00:29:36,350 S6: I'll say we win because Jesus Christ won and we 532 00:29:36,350 --> 00:29:40,110 S6: are overcomers in Christ because he's an overcomer. And anytime 533 00:29:40,110 --> 00:29:43,150 S6: I forget that, I tend to make Satan and his 534 00:29:43,150 --> 00:29:45,910 S6: minions equal. So, you know, we've got this battle going 535 00:29:45,910 --> 00:29:49,870 S6: on between equally matched opponents. And I say, no, it's 536 00:29:49,870 --> 00:29:53,350 S6: more honest and biblically accurate to say it's the creator 537 00:29:53,350 --> 00:29:56,350 S6: and his associates standing against part of the creation and 538 00:29:56,350 --> 00:29:59,430 S6: his associates, and we should mop up the floor with them, 539 00:29:59,430 --> 00:30:01,430 S6: to be very honest. That's why he says, I've given 540 00:30:01,430 --> 00:30:05,550 S6: you authority to step on them. Um, to your question, 541 00:30:05,550 --> 00:30:08,230 S6: can someone who was involved in some kind of an 542 00:30:08,230 --> 00:30:12,030 S6: exorcism themselves become involved in demonization? I would say, of 543 00:30:12,030 --> 00:30:16,200 S6: course that's possible. Uh, I shouldn't. In other words, if 544 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,440 S6: I see the reality of this, and especially if it 545 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,440 S6: was successful, you'd go, boy, I do not want to 546 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:22,880 S6: play with that kind of thing at all. And I'm 547 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,400 S6: not suggesting I know what did or didn't happen with 548 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:30,280 S6: your daughter, but you do. You. I am very aware 549 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,560 S6: of people who were themselves demonized that were still involved 550 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,600 S6: in casting out demons. And you would say, how is that? 551 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,320 S6: And I would say the the prerequisite for being able 552 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,040 S6: to have authority over demonic spirits is not saying, how 553 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,800 S6: many verses have you memorized, but are you in Christ? 554 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,120 S6: Because if you're in Christ, you have been delegated this authority. 555 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,720 S6: So I'm sure that there have been people who themselves 556 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,480 S6: are playing with some of this, or could be, who 557 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,400 S6: still have delegated authority from Christ. And if he chooses 558 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,560 S6: to honor that, he can honor that. So if someone says, well, 559 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,840 S6: could someone be involved in this and themselves become involved? Sure. 560 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,960 S6: I've heard that used as a as a almost a 561 00:31:11,090 --> 00:31:13,450 S6: threat to scare you. I was like, I remember very, 562 00:31:13,450 --> 00:31:16,010 S6: very early in the back in the 80s, someone said, well, 563 00:31:16,050 --> 00:31:18,930 S6: I heard someone in Portland, Oregon that started working with this, 564 00:31:18,930 --> 00:31:21,290 S6: and then they started going to the track, you know, 565 00:31:21,330 --> 00:31:24,410 S6: and betting on dogs or horses or something. And, and 566 00:31:24,410 --> 00:31:26,130 S6: so if you get involved with this, you're going to 567 00:31:26,130 --> 00:31:28,970 S6: become addicted to gambling or something like that. And I thought, 568 00:31:29,170 --> 00:31:32,370 S6: is that possible? Something like that happened. Sure. Is that 569 00:31:32,370 --> 00:31:35,570 S6: something that you tell people, even though Jesus says it's 570 00:31:35,570 --> 00:31:39,370 S6: not a big deal, it's just take it in stride. Uh, 571 00:31:39,490 --> 00:31:41,810 S6: just like you've been given access to the throne room 572 00:31:41,810 --> 00:31:43,530 S6: of God. So you do not have to have someone 573 00:31:43,530 --> 00:31:47,570 S6: interceding for you to pray. Ephesians two, Hebrews four say, 574 00:31:47,570 --> 00:31:49,930 S6: we've been given bold, confident access to the throne room 575 00:31:49,930 --> 00:31:51,890 S6: of God. I don't need to pray through someone. I 576 00:31:51,890 --> 00:31:54,370 S6: get I've been given that privilege as part of my salvation, 577 00:31:54,410 --> 00:31:57,850 S6: my faith in Christ. Well, I've been given delegated authority. Well, 578 00:31:57,890 --> 00:32:01,370 S6: some people exercise it. Yes. Well, some people say I won't. Sure. 579 00:32:01,730 --> 00:32:04,570 S6: Does it say that you having to be Gabriel's twin 580 00:32:04,570 --> 00:32:07,490 S6: before you can decide to resist the devil? Is that 581 00:32:07,490 --> 00:32:11,180 S6: a prerequisite? Scripture doesn't say that. Would it make sense 582 00:32:11,180 --> 00:32:12,900 S6: if I'm going to be in that arena, that I 583 00:32:12,900 --> 00:32:15,180 S6: make sure I'm not playing games on both sides of 584 00:32:15,180 --> 00:32:18,820 S6: the fence? Sure. Ultimately I go, I serve a sovereign 585 00:32:18,820 --> 00:32:21,900 S6: God who can do anything he wants, and I like 586 00:32:21,900 --> 00:32:26,180 S6: to systematize things because it helps me remember things. But ultimately, 587 00:32:26,180 --> 00:32:29,460 S6: I don't systematize God. I've got a finite brain. He's 588 00:32:29,460 --> 00:32:32,940 S6: the infinite one. I'm a finite one. He can. There 589 00:32:32,980 --> 00:32:34,380 S6: are a lot of things that he does that I 590 00:32:34,380 --> 00:32:38,500 S6: don't necessarily understand. I've told people at Bible studies here 591 00:32:38,500 --> 00:32:41,140 S6: on occasion. I've got one of my first Bibles that 592 00:32:41,140 --> 00:32:43,580 S6: I've got a back page just filled with question marks 593 00:32:43,580 --> 00:32:46,620 S6: on verses. And, you know, the longer I've been alive 594 00:32:46,620 --> 00:32:49,060 S6: and work through them, I've been able to eliminate a 595 00:32:49,060 --> 00:32:52,940 S6: lot of those. But there's nothing wrong with saying, Lord Jesus, 596 00:32:52,980 --> 00:32:55,340 S6: as you know, you're the infinite, all powerful one. I've 597 00:32:55,340 --> 00:32:57,500 S6: still got some questions for you that I don't get. 598 00:32:58,020 --> 00:33:00,460 S6: I would say that should be considered kind of normal, 599 00:33:00,460 --> 00:33:01,260 S6: not novel. 600 00:33:01,660 --> 00:33:04,820 S1: Mhm. Wow. Thank you, Heidi, so much. Great answer, Carl, 601 00:33:04,820 --> 00:33:08,020 S1: I appreciate that. Let me turn to Valerie, who's in Ohio. Valerie, 602 00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:09,910 S1: thank you for being here. Please. Your question. 603 00:33:10,630 --> 00:33:12,910 S10: Thank you for taking my call. My question has to 604 00:33:12,910 --> 00:33:15,990 S10: do with my background from a Pentecostal church, where we 605 00:33:15,990 --> 00:33:20,030 S10: were taught to bind and loose in intercession for other people, 606 00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:25,229 S10: particular spirits that may be oppressing people. Um, do you 607 00:33:25,390 --> 00:33:28,310 S10: are you familiar with that type of praying and intercession? 608 00:33:28,310 --> 00:33:31,270 S10: Because I'm praying for a married couple that's really hanging 609 00:33:31,270 --> 00:33:35,270 S10: on to their marriage that are believers, but I could 610 00:33:35,270 --> 00:33:40,070 S10: tell certain what seems to me from my teaching background, um, 611 00:33:40,350 --> 00:33:45,270 S10: particular spirits specifically, uh, they seem to be dealing with 612 00:33:45,310 --> 00:33:48,510 S10: like the spirit of anger, bitterness, resentment, pride, you know, 613 00:33:48,550 --> 00:33:52,910 S10: those kinds of things. Are you familiar with interceding and 614 00:33:52,910 --> 00:33:56,550 S10: coming against those kind of spirits and losing, you know, 615 00:33:56,790 --> 00:33:59,630 S10: the fruits into the person while you're praying for them? 616 00:33:59,910 --> 00:34:01,190 S10: What do you think of that? 617 00:34:01,710 --> 00:34:06,230 S6: Well, first, yes, I'm familiar with the teaching and I 618 00:34:06,270 --> 00:34:10,109 S6: would say that my my simple response would be, I 619 00:34:10,110 --> 00:34:13,029 S6: think part of it's kind of a mixed bag and 620 00:34:13,030 --> 00:34:15,990 S6: here's why I would say that not do I have 621 00:34:15,989 --> 00:34:19,310 S6: the ability or even the authority to intercede or pray 622 00:34:19,310 --> 00:34:23,390 S6: for others? I do, and I'm told to pray for others. 623 00:34:23,790 --> 00:34:26,310 S6: And I can ask God if I think someone is 624 00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:29,750 S6: being particularly beat up by a demon. Lord God, if if, 625 00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:33,069 S6: if what I'm discerning is true, I'm asking that you 626 00:34:33,070 --> 00:34:35,710 S6: would start beating up the thing that's beating up my 627 00:34:35,710 --> 00:34:38,750 S6: brother or sister in Christ. I don't think there's anything 628 00:34:38,750 --> 00:34:41,589 S6: wrong with that at all. But the other side of 629 00:34:41,590 --> 00:34:43,549 S6: it is, and this is you can say, this is 630 00:34:43,550 --> 00:34:48,109 S6: my subjective experience. Uh, you know, as I work through 631 00:34:48,110 --> 00:34:50,750 S6: Scripture and I've worked in this area, if the people 632 00:34:50,750 --> 00:34:53,270 S6: that are involved with the demons are not the people 633 00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:56,350 S6: wanting the freedom, I don't care who you are, what 634 00:34:56,350 --> 00:34:59,270 S6: you say your gifts are, or how long you've prayed. 635 00:34:59,510 --> 00:35:01,590 S6: Demons are going to say, we do not have to 636 00:35:01,630 --> 00:35:05,719 S6: quit bothering someone if they don't care if they're not 637 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,319 S6: the ones wanting freedom. I think you can pray that 638 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,800 S6: God will open their eyes, help them see what's going on. 639 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,080 S6: I'm asking on occasion. You know, I said earlier, Lord, 640 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,400 S6: would you would you thump the one thumping them? But 641 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,480 S6: I have I have not watched or witnessed or been 642 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,279 S6: aware of people who did, who, who are demonized, who 643 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:30,080 S6: are believers, who could care less, continue in their sin, 644 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,080 S6: play in their games, and then say, someone prayed for 645 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,319 S6: me and they left because they were so afraid of 646 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,680 S6: that person. If that person has not taken care of 647 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,600 S6: the top loss, the ground, the play space or territory 648 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,720 S6: that they turned over to demons, demons are going to say, 649 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,439 S6: we do not have to quit bothering them. And it's 650 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,080 S6: not a lack of faith on your part as the 651 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,200 S6: one who's praying. It's if you're going to be a believer, 652 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,839 S6: but you're going to open doors to the other side, 653 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,480 S6: the demons are not going to volunteer to quit bothering 654 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,399 S6: that person until they say, Lord Jesus, I want to 655 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,330 S6: give back to you that which I opened doors to 656 00:36:04,370 --> 00:36:06,489 S6: and gave to them. So that's why I say a 657 00:36:06,489 --> 00:36:09,050 S6: little bit of a mixed bag. Yes, you can pray for. 658 00:36:09,210 --> 00:36:12,089 S6: But if someone's saying, I'm claiming your freedom, I would 659 00:36:12,090 --> 00:36:15,490 S6: say I can hear that all day long. It doesn't 660 00:36:15,489 --> 00:36:16,330 S6: make it true. 661 00:36:17,450 --> 00:36:19,290 S1: Valerie. Thank you. I appreciate you being a part of 662 00:36:19,290 --> 00:36:25,969 S1: this conversation. Our number again is (877) 548-3675. Our topic spiritual warfare. 663 00:36:26,130 --> 00:36:28,930 S1: Your opportunity to ask Doctor Carl Payne any question you 664 00:36:28,930 --> 00:36:32,009 S1: have on this topic often misunderstood. By the way. And 665 00:36:32,010 --> 00:36:34,930 S1: sometimes there's very interesting teaching out there. So we just 666 00:36:34,930 --> 00:36:36,930 S1: want to go right to what the word says and 667 00:36:36,930 --> 00:36:41,730 S1: how we can have true victory in Jesus. 8775. Four eight. 3675. 668 00:36:41,770 --> 00:36:58,170 S1: Back after this. 877548. Three. Six. Seven. Five. That's our 669 00:36:58,170 --> 00:37:03,140 S1: number here on in the market with Janet partial 5483675. 670 00:37:03,180 --> 00:37:06,180 S1: Doctor Carl Payne is our guest. Our topic spiritual warfare 671 00:37:06,380 --> 00:37:08,620 S1: and we've got lots of wonderful questions. Stacy, I'm going 672 00:37:08,620 --> 00:37:10,700 S1: to welcome you from Illinois. Thanks for joining us. Your 673 00:37:10,700 --> 00:37:11,540 S1: question please. 674 00:37:12,820 --> 00:37:16,580 S11: Thank you so much, Janet. And thank you, Doctor Payne. 675 00:37:17,340 --> 00:37:20,740 S11: Both of you have a wonderful ministry and I just 676 00:37:20,739 --> 00:37:25,939 S11: thank you for that. And my question is how to 677 00:37:25,980 --> 00:37:33,100 S11: distinguish from someone suffering a mental illness versus actual spiritual warfare. 678 00:37:34,380 --> 00:37:39,779 S6: That is $1 million question, particularly when I'm at conferences and, 679 00:37:39,780 --> 00:37:43,259 S6: and have counselors coming up to me and asking questions. 680 00:37:43,300 --> 00:37:46,900 S6: It's a great question. And I'll tell you what I 681 00:37:46,940 --> 00:37:49,740 S6: have told them for a number of years. I'll say first, 682 00:37:49,739 --> 00:37:54,500 S6: it's not an exact science, meaning I still have plenty 683 00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:57,100 S6: to learn on that one too. Don't pretend to know 684 00:37:57,100 --> 00:38:00,989 S6: it all. Um, don't pretend to be the only one 685 00:38:00,989 --> 00:38:04,630 S6: that has learned a few things about working with demonization. 686 00:38:04,989 --> 00:38:09,710 S6: But I would say, uh, what I'm looking for, uh, when, 687 00:38:09,710 --> 00:38:12,670 S6: when I'm having to make that same evaluation in chapter 688 00:38:12,670 --> 00:38:16,109 S6: 11 of the book where Janet said I'd updated it, 689 00:38:16,110 --> 00:38:18,549 S6: I added 11 and 12 because the questions I was 690 00:38:18,550 --> 00:38:23,710 S6: getting primarily from missionaries, counselors, preachers, uh, butchers, bakers, candlestick 691 00:38:23,710 --> 00:38:25,750 S6: makers too. But it's like, what are you looking for 692 00:38:25,790 --> 00:38:28,710 S6: in your, in your interview process? That's 11 and then 693 00:38:28,710 --> 00:38:30,549 S6: 12 when you're actually working with it. What if you 694 00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:33,069 S6: bump into this or that? What if this happens? I 695 00:38:33,070 --> 00:38:36,150 S6: just I got tired of answering them one at a 696 00:38:36,150 --> 00:38:38,950 S6: time and thought, let's just update the update the book 697 00:38:38,989 --> 00:38:41,790 S6: and put them in it. But my, my simple or 698 00:38:41,790 --> 00:38:45,190 S6: my quick answer, I think it was Janet. Uh, if 699 00:38:45,190 --> 00:38:48,710 S6: I got the name right would be I'd say something 700 00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:52,430 S6: like this. Uh, when I have been working with demonized people, 701 00:38:52,830 --> 00:39:00,030 S6: almost always the focus when they say I have thoughts, ideas, words, impressions. 702 00:39:00,030 --> 00:39:03,509 S6: I just say it's mental and it connects. It'll usually 703 00:39:03,830 --> 00:39:07,910 S6: either boil down to either Jesus is not adequate as 704 00:39:07,910 --> 00:39:11,229 S6: your Saviour and attacks on Jesus. And if he really 705 00:39:11,230 --> 00:39:13,669 S6: loved you, why doesn't he watch out for you? And 706 00:39:13,670 --> 00:39:16,430 S6: it's because he's. He doesn't really love you or he's 707 00:39:16,430 --> 00:39:19,870 S6: not true or or attacks on you. As a believer, 708 00:39:19,870 --> 00:39:23,390 S6: you never measure up. You never do everything right. Your 709 00:39:23,390 --> 00:39:26,230 S6: prayers bounce off the ceiling. You know, your Bible reading 710 00:39:26,230 --> 00:39:29,709 S6: is pathetic. No one loves you. You're always alone, even 711 00:39:29,710 --> 00:39:31,750 S6: in the middle of a crowd. But I've said it. 712 00:39:31,750 --> 00:39:35,270 S6: Usually the inadequacy of either Jesus as Savior or you 713 00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:39,989 S6: as saint. Almost always with demonized people, when you start, 714 00:39:40,030 --> 00:39:42,630 S6: you know, listening to what they're saying, they'll kind of 715 00:39:42,670 --> 00:39:45,950 S6: hit those two funnels. When I have worked with psychotic 716 00:39:45,950 --> 00:39:48,590 S6: people and I have, I don't know that it was demonic. 717 00:39:48,590 --> 00:39:50,350 S6: I don't think it was. Or if it was, it 718 00:39:50,350 --> 00:39:54,670 S6: was certainly overlapped with just mental breakdowns. And it can happen. 719 00:39:54,910 --> 00:39:58,000 S6: I have not found that consistency where it all seems 720 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,920 S6: to go down. Those two funnels, it's all over. I mean, 721 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,680 S6: I've worked with people where I go up to see 722 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,480 S6: them one day in a lock up situation and, you know, 723 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,920 S6: they tell me one thing, I go another day, they 724 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:13,839 S6: tell me something else, uh, very random. A lot of times, uh, 725 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,239 S6: where with the demonized Christian, it'll almost always get back 726 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,360 S6: to Karl. I'm just getting hammered. I'm getting beat up, 727 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,200 S6: and it almost always can go into one of those 728 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,160 S6: two buckets. You don't measure up as a Christian, so 729 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,600 S6: give up or Jesus doesn't measure up as a savior, 730 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,200 S6: so give up on him. So I'll tell people when 731 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,359 S6: I'm interviewing and when I'm talking with people, if it 732 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,600 S6: if it comes up far more of 1 or 1 733 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,520 S6: or both of those buckets, I'm more inclined to go. 734 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:46,120 S6: That's how dehumanization typically works. If it's just random and 735 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,120 S6: all over, I would say I'm more inclined to think 736 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,040 S6: whether it was too many drugs and just broke the 737 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:56,210 S6: system or just something's broken. That's how I would answer that. 738 00:40:56,210 --> 00:40:57,210 S6: I hope that helps. 739 00:40:57,930 --> 00:40:59,890 S1: And I thank you, Stacey, so much for being a 740 00:40:59,890 --> 00:41:05,450 S1: part of this conversation, I really do. 8775483675D welcome. And 741 00:41:05,450 --> 00:41:06,969 S1: we'll take your question now please. 742 00:41:07,969 --> 00:41:10,969 S12: Yes, I was calling, I was listening to what you 743 00:41:10,969 --> 00:41:15,009 S12: were saying to the other caller. Uh, that if the person, 744 00:41:15,530 --> 00:41:18,689 S12: the demons, they don't allow the demons to come out, 745 00:41:18,690 --> 00:41:20,930 S12: they will stay in there. Well, how do we pray 746 00:41:20,930 --> 00:41:24,810 S12: for people, uh, that don't even realize they're demonized? How 747 00:41:24,810 --> 00:41:28,009 S12: do we pray for them to be delivered? And that 748 00:41:28,010 --> 00:41:31,090 S12: scripture that says some only come out, but by fasting 749 00:41:31,090 --> 00:41:34,490 S12: and prayer, would that be considered a part of that? 750 00:41:35,850 --> 00:41:38,689 S6: Um, well, I want to be careful how I share 751 00:41:38,690 --> 00:41:40,930 S6: the first one, but I've shared it on the program before. 752 00:41:40,969 --> 00:41:44,450 S6: I'll go backwards. I'll go instead of A and B, 753 00:41:44,489 --> 00:41:46,049 S6: I'll go B and A. If I can help on 754 00:41:46,050 --> 00:41:49,530 S6: your questions, I would say B, the whole Matthew 17 755 00:41:50,290 --> 00:41:53,850 S6: coming off the Mount of Transfiguration and the disciples striking 756 00:41:53,850 --> 00:41:57,660 S6: out on their trying to deliver the man's son and Jesus, 757 00:41:57,700 --> 00:41:59,780 S6: you know. Oh, you of little faith. He was talking 758 00:41:59,820 --> 00:42:03,820 S6: to the believers, to the disciples, by the way, this time. 759 00:42:03,860 --> 00:42:06,100 S6: This type only comes out with fasting and prayer. The 760 00:42:06,100 --> 00:42:10,060 S6: original language doesn't include the word fasting there. It includes 761 00:42:10,060 --> 00:42:13,779 S6: the word prayer. So when people make fasting a prerequisite 762 00:42:13,980 --> 00:42:17,100 S6: for successful deliverance, I'll say I don't think there's anything 763 00:42:17,100 --> 00:42:20,779 S6: wrong with fasting, but don't make it a prerequisite for it, 764 00:42:20,780 --> 00:42:23,620 S6: because you're basing that on a verse that if you've 765 00:42:23,620 --> 00:42:26,859 S6: got a decent study Bible, virtually every one of them 766 00:42:26,860 --> 00:42:30,420 S6: will either be italicized or brackets or something and say 767 00:42:30,780 --> 00:42:34,860 S6: the word fasting is not in the better manuscript. So, um, 768 00:42:34,860 --> 00:42:37,660 S6: I know it gets quoted a lot that way, but 769 00:42:37,660 --> 00:42:43,340 S6: I'm just saying it's a, uh, that's not accurate. And 770 00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:46,060 S6: then I think Janet helped me with the first question. 771 00:42:46,100 --> 00:42:48,020 S6: I got caught on the second one and there was 772 00:42:48,020 --> 00:42:48,540 S6: a part a. 773 00:42:49,540 --> 00:42:52,259 S1: Well, she was talking about praying for deliverance. So ways 774 00:42:52,260 --> 00:42:53,380 S1: to be able to do that. 775 00:42:53,380 --> 00:42:57,060 S6: Go ahead. Okay. Thank you very much. I would say 776 00:42:57,380 --> 00:43:00,899 S6: it ties into two things. One, because I believe what 777 00:43:00,900 --> 00:43:04,700 S6: I said earlier to the person, I'm sorry I mixed 778 00:43:04,700 --> 00:43:08,060 S6: up the name. Uh, but but at any rate, demons 779 00:43:08,060 --> 00:43:11,980 S6: leave when whatever it was that gave them the ability 780 00:43:11,980 --> 00:43:14,339 S6: to be there is taken care of. That's why I 781 00:43:14,340 --> 00:43:17,779 S6: said when you chase down people and say, I'm going 782 00:43:17,820 --> 00:43:20,420 S6: to pray for the demons involved with you, are you 783 00:43:20,420 --> 00:43:22,899 S6: talking to a Christian? I don't know, are you talking 784 00:43:22,940 --> 00:43:25,380 S6: to a non-Christian? I don't know, are you talking to 785 00:43:25,380 --> 00:43:27,580 S6: a Christian who is on the run from God? I 786 00:43:27,580 --> 00:43:30,379 S6: don't know. So I would say my prayer is, God 787 00:43:30,380 --> 00:43:33,140 S6: help them understand. If that's what's going on, help them 788 00:43:33,180 --> 00:43:35,620 S6: see it, put them in a position where they are 789 00:43:35,660 --> 00:43:39,340 S6: wanting help. But for people that chase down people because 790 00:43:39,340 --> 00:43:42,980 S6: they think they're demons, I say, I think you're kidding yourself. 791 00:43:42,980 --> 00:43:45,580 S6: If you think you're the great man, the great woman, 792 00:43:45,580 --> 00:43:48,180 S6: you can make them go, but that person doesn't care. 793 00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:52,350 S6: Demons will not volunteer to leave. They leave when they're 794 00:43:52,350 --> 00:43:55,030 S6: forced to go because their options are gone. 795 00:43:56,430 --> 00:43:58,790 S1: Wow. Thank you so much for the question. I greatly 796 00:43:58,790 --> 00:44:01,069 S1: appreciate it. And to those of you whose questions we 797 00:44:01,070 --> 00:44:04,110 S1: did not get to, thank you for your patience. And 798 00:44:04,110 --> 00:44:06,190 S1: just know that Carl, because he's that kind of a 799 00:44:06,190 --> 00:44:09,230 S1: wonderful human being, regularly comes and visits with us. So 800 00:44:09,230 --> 00:44:10,989 S1: when you hear that he is going to be on again, 801 00:44:11,030 --> 00:44:13,390 S1: you check our website to find that out, get your 802 00:44:13,590 --> 00:44:15,390 S1: dialing fingers ready and see if you can call and 803 00:44:15,390 --> 00:44:17,069 S1: remember your question. Write it down if you have to, 804 00:44:17,110 --> 00:44:18,669 S1: but then you can get to the front of the line. 805 00:44:18,670 --> 00:44:20,950 S1: So hopefully we'll be able to take your question. In 806 00:44:20,950 --> 00:44:22,549 S1: the meantime, I'd love for you to read his book. 807 00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:24,910 S1: So just go to In the market with Janet dot 808 00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:27,710 S1: o r g. Under the summation of each hour is 809 00:44:27,710 --> 00:44:30,590 S1: a red box. It says program details and audio. Click 810 00:44:30,590 --> 00:44:33,310 S1: that on and it'll take you over to the information page. 811 00:44:33,310 --> 00:44:35,270 S1: And then you're going to see a longer bio for Carl, 812 00:44:35,310 --> 00:44:37,910 S1: his handsome face, a link to his website, and on 813 00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:40,270 S1: the right hand side, the book that really and truly 814 00:44:40,270 --> 00:44:42,950 S1: will answer so many of your questions. It's called Spiritual 815 00:44:42,950 --> 00:44:46,870 S1: Warfare Christians Demonization and Deliverance. Thank you so much, Carl. 816 00:44:46,870 --> 00:44:48,430 S1: Thank you friends. We'll see you next time on In 817 00:44:48,469 --> 00:44:49,950 S1: the Market with Janet Parshall.