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S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl

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S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced guide. Overcome

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S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined. Start

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S1: your morning with a laugh.

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S2: Practical from the Bible. Tips and tricks to kill. Not

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S2: tricks but tips and tricks.

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S3: Tips and tricks to kill. Tips and tricks.

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S1: Delivering the truth daily.

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S4: All of my attempts to, you know, prop myself up

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S4: with achievement in good works. Well, God wasn't impressed by that,

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S4: even if other people were.

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S2: The gospel changes everything.

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S5: Freedom in Christ. Man, it's like that backpack of cement

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S5: just falling to the ground.

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S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl

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S1: and Crew.

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S6: What a day, what a day. So much going on globally.

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S6: Oh my goodness guys this has been a roller coaster

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S6: here these last few weeks with everything going on in Iran.

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S6: By the way, Lana Silk, we're going to have her

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S6: in here Friday. Let the dust settle on this supposed

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S6: ceasefire and then get a perspective. I think one of

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S6: the things that's interesting to me is I just look

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S6: at the lay of the land with everything that's happening

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S6: in Iran is the thing that gets left out from

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S6: everyone is what are the Iranian people thinking?

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S2: Yeah.

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S6: Part of that is due to the fact that you

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S6: can't talk to them. Uh, one, uh, really, uh, really

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S6: sweet follower of Christ that I follow on social media

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S6: a little bit. She hasn't even been able to talk

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S6: to her family in a month. No communication whatsoever. And

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S6: she has all the backchannels. So when you've got a

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S6: total shutdown of communication, it's hard to know what in

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S6: the world is going on. So we're going to let

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S6: the dust settle a little bit here about 48 hours.

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S6: Get Lana silk in, get a feel for what's going on.

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S6: But I'm most interested in. What did the people of

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S6: Iran feel about what's going on there? We know that

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S6: there's a hunger and a desire. Even Lana Silk said

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S6: that she thought that ultimately regime change was going to happen.

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S6: And they're hoping that for Christ's followers there who have

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S6: paid a horrific price, along with any citizens that rose

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S6: up against the current government. And I think one of

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S6: the best things for me is when I see things

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S6: like this is what's what, what do people feel? What

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S6: are what are they feeling? What's happening here? I don't

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S6: know if there's a little bit of hope dashed as, uh,

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S6: the prospects are pretty high. And, you know, this is

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S6: where we got to be biblical on this one. Guys,

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S6: I think any notion that you're going to get, uh, a,

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S6: a dominant regime in some of those countries that is

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S6: going to be somehow God fearing is inherently flawed because

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S6: the scriptures are clear that it's going to be Iran

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S6: in particular that's going to come against when for the

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S6: battle of Gog and Magog. My goodness, they aren't going

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S6: to be favorable toward Israel. No one is. We got

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S6: to remember, it's weird. It's like we have this bifurcated perspective.

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S6: Even Christ followers, it's like, all right, this is how

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S6: the end is going to go down. And maybe now

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S6: between now and then, we're going to we might have

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S6: some cycles of history. We don't know when the Lord's

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S6: going to come, but at the end of the day,

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S6: there's not going to be warm fuzzies toward Israel or

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S6: toward Jesus Christ. He's going to be maligned right to

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S6: the end, no doubt about it. So we've got interesting

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S6: days in front of us here. Really interesting days. Father,

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S6: I stop right now to pray for the people of Iran.

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S6: We think of men and women, boys and girls. We

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S6: think of people that are up and. Oh, let's see

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S6: here time wise. It's coming up on noon, I noon,

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S6: I guess, over there. Uh. Their world is so uncertain.

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S6: And yet. God, you are certain still. And Lord, we

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S6: find all over Scripture those who put their faith in

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S6: Jesus Christ will ultimately not be disappointed. And so, Lord,

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S6: we pray for the awakening that is happening, the revival

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S6: that's happening, that you would increase it and that you

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S6: would protect men and women, boys and girls. Lord, we

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S6: live in a world that with such violence and such injustice.

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S6: And we praise you that one day you will hold

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S6: the scales and you will balance it all out. We

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S6: don't know how you're going to do that. And there's

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S6: obviously a cry in our soul because we're image bearers

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S6: for justice. But Lord, we do pray that you would be.

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S6: And I thank you that as we pray, you are

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S6: above it all, you are again not wringing your hands.

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S6: You are sovereign over all things. You rise up and

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S6: you take down and you are good. So, Lord, through

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S6: it all, uh, allow people that are far from you

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S6: to come to you. And I pray that you would

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S6: quicken spirits and that there would be this prevenient grace,

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S6: a revival of prevenient grace, that the remnant in Iran

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S6: would grow strong. And Lord, as we sit in really

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S6: the lap of luxury relative to what our brothers and

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S6: sisters go through around the world, would you remind us

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S6: to pray often and to be locked at a heart

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S6: level with them today? Our brothers and sisters in Iran

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S6: and in harm's way all around the globe. And Lord,

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S6: just give us a perspective that sees you as sovereign

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S6: over all things as you are and will be careful

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S6: to give you the glory. I do pray for revival

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S6: in our country, Lord, that we would take hold of

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S6: these moments of freedom that we have and that we

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S6: would be unashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I

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S6: thank you how you've proven to me in the last

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S6: even three, four days, how there are people who are.

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S6: Fearful enough of you, God. And that's the beginning of wisdom.

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S6: They're fearful enough of you that if they just had

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S6: a fair shot at the gospel, they would surrender their

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S6: lives to Jesus, who you sent out of love so

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S6: that we would know you, that we'd be saved from

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S6: our sins. So, Lord, we just humble ourselves under your

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S6: mighty hand today. And we thank you that you are

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S6: good and that you are God. There is no one

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S6: like you. And Lord, I thank you that one day,

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S6: as you promised in revelation 21, There will be no

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S6: more tears. There will be incredible community. There won't even

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S6: be any kind of proving ground. Because we'll have nothing

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S6: to prove. Nothing to gain, nothing to lose. We'll be

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S6: with you in this entrepreneurial building and having new conquering

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S6: things that are based on a whole different kind of

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S6: way of life that that will be this eternal reward

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S6: of being with you. And Lord, what's amazing is, and

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S6: I'm blown away by this, is that that reward has

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S6: nothing to do with us. So keep us at a

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S6: point where we realize that we are what we are

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S6: by the grace of God. That's it. And that this

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S6: is all about Christ in us. The hope of glory.

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S6: The hope of glory. So Lord, as we're focusing on

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S6: hope this week, I just pray that we will be

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S6: true to your word, that we will not try to

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S6: squeeze out hope in circumstances or in our status, or

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S6: in satisfaction that we can get from this earth. Lord,

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S6: help us to see even those moments of satisfaction, uh,

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S6: as from your hand. And I praise you for that.

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S6: In Jesus name, Amen.

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S4: Amen.

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S6: God is good all the time. Coming up here in

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S6: a moment, uh, there's a powerful passage of Scripture. Have

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S6: you ever noticed how. Oh my goodness. I had a

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S6: wild day yesterday. I had a I had a day.

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S6: I don't want to get into details about it, but

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S6: it was like, oh boy, what are you doing here? God.

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S6: And then it hit me late in the afternoon, early evening,

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S6: that God is in the business of forcing us by

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S6: his grace, right back to dependence on him. And he

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S6: loves us enough to show us our need for him.

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S6: Isn't that terrific?

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S7: It's freeing. It's terrific. And sometimes really painful. Yes.

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S6: Isn't it? Isn't that something, guys? Isn't that. I mean,

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S6: isn't that something? God loves us so much, he will

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S6: allow circumstances, um, physical challenges, spiritual warfare, all of it

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S6: is is designed that we might cling to him. And

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S6: if we can remember that, that would help us, wouldn't it?

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S2: It would. That would certainly help us. I wish, I

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S2: wish I could be reminded to cling to him through

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S2: like parties that were being thrown for me. And so,

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S2: you know, just really nice things. But you're right. I

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S2: often learn to cling to him most through the difficult

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S2: stuff of my day.

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S6: Yeah. And, and a real sign of maturity is probably

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S6: what Joe Clausen, my dad embodied. Uh, you know, he

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S6: was great. He he never spiritually, uh, he never spiritually. Uh,

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S6: how do I say this? Kind of, uh, rebuked me

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S6: or anything to get the grace of God embedded into

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S6: my head. But I remember one time coming off of, uh,

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S6: off of a stage, I speaking to a few thousand

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S6: people and my dad was one of my elders at

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S6: a church in Alaska. And it was one of those

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S6: services where no joking, I was telling prompted by the spirit,

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S6: I had a manuscript in front of me, but it

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S6: was the nuances of little words that the spirit was

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S6: guiding me in, and I could see palpably, tangibly the

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S6: Spirit of God moving, and anyone that was there felt

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S6: the Spirit of God. Now it could be that the

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S6: temptation from Satan. And clearly it's that that we would

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S6: somehow attach something to ourselves, right? Sure, man, I did

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S6: pretty good.

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S2: You did a great job up there.

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S6: And I really did good. I mean, I was at a,

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S6: I was at a devo here on Monday. That Ali

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S6: did for the whole team. And she did such a

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S6: tremendous job.

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S8: She did.

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S6: She did a tremendous job. But the danger in that

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S6: in all those things is you can start thinking, I'm

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S6: not I'm not.

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S7: Talking.

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S6: For you at all, Ali, but sure it for any person,

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S6: you come off of something like that and you go, man. Yeah.

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S6: And there's this. If you head down that path of boy,

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S6: I did a good thing there. Now am I, am

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S6: I diminishing that we we are vessels that can be

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S6: used for the glory of God? No. That's awesome. But

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S6: it's all about the direction of our rejoicing. And the

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S6: more we're inclined to look up to God and say, oh,

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S6: thank you. So I came off the stage and it's

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S6: literally one of these stages where you don't walk down

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S6: toward the people, you walk out the back because you

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S6: got another service loading up here soon. And I walk

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S6: out the back. And here in the kind of the

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S6: dim glow of backstage. Here's my dad greeting me. And

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S6: he had scooted around the back and he held that

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S6: fist up in front of him and he said, oh, oh, Carl. Oh, Carl.

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S6: God gave you great freedom and liberty. I said, yeah, dad,

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S6: he did. And it was good to have dad back

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S6: there because Satan was back there, too, and he was

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S6: baiting me to think you're pretty good. He did all

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S6: right up there. But dad was there to hold on

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S6: to that moment. And if you can hold on to

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S6: that moment where you see that great cup of coffee,

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S6: where you see that kid that's doing something great on

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S6: the court or in mathematics or something like that. And

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S6: you can redirect all that glory and praise right back

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S6: to God, not to your fancy footwork or your great parenting.

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S6: But isn't that something, Ali? Yeah.

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S4: It's true that temptation is always there to whether things

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S4: are going really well or things were in a tough spot.

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S4: The temptation is always to direct our gaze to ourselves.

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S6: It's always there.

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S4: Always there in every circumstance, in every season, whether it's a. Oh,

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S4: I'm so great or a woe is me. We can

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S4: become self-focused in a heartbeat.

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S6: So I want to pull a dad on you and

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S6: Ali and tell you, oh, God gave you great liberty

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S6: and freedom and clarity of speech on Monday when you

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S6: gave that devo to our whole staff. Man, he did Ali.

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S6: And he did, didn't he?

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S4: Praise God.

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S6: Isn't that.

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S4: Sweet? Praise God. Yes.

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S6: Isn't that sweet? Okay, coming up here in a moment. Uh,

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S6: where does where's hope derived? Well, we've said in a person.

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S6: But what if I told you it's the whole Trinity?

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S6: They all got a hand in this deal. Father. Son.

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S6: Holy spirit.

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S4: That's good to know.

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S6: Isn't that good to know? They're ganging up on us

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S6: for hope, Ali.

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S4: That's the best kind of gang up.

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S6: It's tremendous. And so we're going to break it down

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S6: for you straight ahead.

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S1: He was running from God, but God's love brought him home.

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S1: Carl is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on

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S1: Moody Radio.

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S6: Uh, it's cool man. Uh. Romans 15, getting near the

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S6: end of the sticky pages in the book of Romans.

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S6: Maybe don't hang out there a lot, but it's this

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S6: roundhouse celebration of Paul writing this letter to the Gentiles saying, man,

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S6: you've got this great salvation. It's so good. Let me

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S6: just cherry pick. Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people. Praise

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S6: the Lord, all you Gentiles, and let all the peoples

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S6: extol him. Then it says something really, really powerful here

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S6: in verse 13. This caps off this roundhouse of celebrating

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S6: the salvation that we have. It says this May the

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S6: God of hope fill you with all joy and peace

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S6: in believing, so that by the power of the Holy

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S6: Spirit you may abound in hope. Father, son, Holy spirit

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S6: at work here. Ali.

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S4: Okay, so may the God of hope fill.

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S6: The God of hope.

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S4: Fill you with all joy.

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S6: As in believing, right?

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S4: So that by the power of the Holy Spirit you

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S4: may abound in hope.

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S6: Yeah, this is fascinating. So just some core theology. God

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S6: loved the world so much that he sent his Son

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S6: that by believing in him you may have life in

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S6: his name. Now that's John 316. But then you go

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S6: further on into the gospel of John, and what do

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S6: you find? You find that the Holy Spirit now is

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S6: our great advantage, and he's here to help remind us

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S6: of truth and to fill us up to overflowing with

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S6: the presence and power of God. This is so cool

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S6: because let me just break this down for us here quickly.

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S6: There's a lot of words that have been spoken by

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S6: great theologians about this verse, but at the end of

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S6: the day, hope is not circumstances, right? Good or bad. Ali.

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S4: Correct.

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S6: Good or bad, it's not circumstances, but may the God

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S6: of hope fill you. So that's, that's, that's the thing

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S6: right there. May fill you with all joy and peace

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S6: in believing, believing in. Because the context here is believing

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S6: in Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world for salvation

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S6: that we find in him, so that by the power

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S6: of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. So

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S6: the presence of hope is found in Jesus by believing

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S6: in Jesus sent to you by the father, and that

289
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S6: the only way that we're going to abound in hope

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S6: is to be filled up with the Holy Spirit. So

291
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S6: the only question here is what we come back to

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S6: time and again. How in the world are we filled

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S6: up with the Holy Spirit? Some of you feel like

294
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S6: you're low on the hope factor today, and maybe you've

295
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S6: been on a mad dash looking for something to squeeze

296
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S6: a little hope out of. It's found in the father, son,

297
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S6: and Holy Spirit filled up to overflowing with this hope.

298
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S6: So let's break that down straight ahead.

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S1: You're listening to Curl and Crew on Moody Radio.

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S6: May the God of hope fill you with all joy

301
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S6: and peace in believing so that you may have power.

302
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S6: The power of the Holy Spirit may abound in in hope.

303
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S6: What an amazing thing. Uh, we're talking about hope rising

304
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S6: all week long, and there are. From Douglas Mu to, uh,

305
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S6: John Stott, you name it, this verse has been absolutely

306
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S6: hammered by commentators because here you find father, son, Holy

307
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S6: Spirit working together. But here's six little bullets that will

308
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S6: kind of help you kind of identify what's really going

309
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S6: on here. The spirit produces hope. How? By anchoring you

310
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S6: in the truth. We go back to John 14, John 16.

311
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S6: What do we find, man? The Holy Spirit's going to come,

312
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S6: and he's going to remind you of everything that I've spoken.

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S6: Primary function of the of the spirit of the living

314
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S6: God is to get us anchored in truth. Why is

315
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S6: that so important, guys?

316
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S4: Oh, because if you don't have an anchor in truth,

317
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S4: then you are going to be swayed by how you

318
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S4: feel at any given moment, what your circumstances suggest, what

319
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S4: other people say, what culture says. You will be like

320
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S4: a leaf in the wind, kind of blown about.

321
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S2: Truth is the one thing that doesn't change. Yeah. In life.

322
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S2: So that's where hope should be grappled in.

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S6: Yeah. Otherwise we're going to be left to circumstances and feelings.

324
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S6: And that's dangerous.

325
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S2: That's very dangerous.

326
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S6: Theologians agree. It's then assuring your identity and lifting your perspective.

327
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S6: In fact, Douglas Moose says that let me try to

328
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S6: grab this quote here. This is pretty cool. Here. Let

329
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S6: me try to find this thing quickly. If I could, uh,

330
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S6: Douglas Moose says hope is rooted in the objective promises

331
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S6: of God. This is why it's so important to be

332
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S6: in the Word of God, right? I mean, the objective

333
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S6: promises of God, you gotta hold on to those things.

334
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S6: And then settling in your heart and overcoming fear and

335
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S6: connecting you to Christ hears. At the end of the day,

336
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S6: the Holy Spirit is going to remind us of what

337
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S6: Jesus said. Settle our hearts because we go through all

338
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S6: these circumstances and situations. But the richest among us focus

339
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S6: on the promises of God, the truth of our identity,

340
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S6: the future hope of glory. And that's the only that's

341
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S6: the only thing that hope can flow from.

342
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S4: And when you think about it, you know, you think

343
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S4: about times when maybe my hope was shaken or low.

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S4: And when I've gone to people in my life who

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S4: I know are mature in their faith and who are

346
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S4: grounded in Scripture, that's what they that's what any wise

347
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S4: believer will point you to.

348
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S8: Yeah.

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S6: Every time. Every time you find someone that is rich

350
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S6: in faith, they are anchored in the promises of God.

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S8: Yeah.

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S6: They are not swayed by the conditions of the world

353
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S6: or the situations that we're in. There's something in their heart, soul, mind,

354
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S6: strength that is almost transported to another place. So today,

355
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S6: get your. If you're lacking hope, let the Holy Spirit

356
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S6: guide you to the word. Get anchored in the promises

357
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S6: of God. Look at the future. Revelation 21. Those tears

358
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S6: are going to be wiped away one day. We have

359
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S6: hope for today because we have hope for tomorrow. That's

360
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S6: the beauty of it. And this isn't bubble gum. This

361
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S6: isn't smoke and mirrors. This is truth anchored in Scripture.

362
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S6: And all you have to do is look at the

363
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S6: life that God's changed in you to believe it. If

364
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S6: he's got the power to raise you from the life

365
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S6: in which you live, to the life you now live,

366
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S6: he has hope for tomorrow.

367
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S1: Want to hear that again? Just download the Curl and

368
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S1: Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.

369
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S6: It's Carl and crew. Oh my goodness. We should be

370
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S6: in Fuego here right now. Ali. Um, every line should

371
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S6: be filled. So let me give you some basis for this.

372
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S6: This is so great. May the God of hope fill

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S6: you with all joy and peace in believing. So this

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S6: is a picture of father, son, and Holy Spirit here.

375
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S6: May the God of hope fill you with all joy

376
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S6: and peace in believing in Christ. The context of Romans

377
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S6: 15 is come on, rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people.

378
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S6: Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles, and let all the

379
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S6: peoples extol him. Because we've been grafted in to this

380
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S6: great salvation found in Jesus Christ. So it goes on

381
00:22:00,710 --> 00:22:03,430
S6: so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you

382
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S6: may abound in hope. So you gotta ask the question,

383
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S6: what's the primary function of the Holy Spirit is to

384
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S6: guide us into all truth. He's the comforter. This is

385
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S6: what we find in John 14. It's to our advantage

386
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S6: that he comes. He is speaking. He is here, and

387
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S6: he leverages the Word of God in a way that

388
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S6: gives us hope, that transcends circumstances. Now, if that ain't

389
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S6: something to celebrate, I don't know what it is.

390
00:22:28,050 --> 00:22:34,050
S4: Well, I mean, because circumstances change readily. You know? And

391
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S4: have you ever been in, like, a good, like a

392
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S4: season where things are going really good and you're kind

393
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S4: of like waiting for something to happen that shakes everything

394
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S4: up because you feel like it can't be this good

395
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S4: for this long.

396
00:22:46,210 --> 00:22:51,330
S6: Yeah. Yeah. And that's why even in, in, in dry

397
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S6: times and in harvests, we've got to stay anchored in truth.

398
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S4: Absolutely.

399
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S6: All right. What's the question.

400
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S4: We're asking you. What promise are you holding on to

401
00:23:00,490 --> 00:23:06,609
S4: that gives you hope in every circumstance. 805. Five 578. 98.

402
00:23:06,650 --> 00:23:08,730
S6: Yeah. Give us a call right now. Let's light them up.

403
00:23:08,730 --> 00:23:14,770
S6: We're going to go lightning round 800 555 7898. Uh, Desiree,

404
00:23:14,770 --> 00:23:17,450
S6: I believe first time caller from Florida. What do you say?

405
00:23:18,850 --> 00:23:22,170
S9: Hi. Good morning. I am standing in the hope of

406
00:23:22,170 --> 00:23:25,930
S9: Genesis chapter 26. Okay. The Bible said that God told

407
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S9: Isaac to stay in the land. And so my word

408
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S9: that I'm standing on this morning is that the condition

409
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S9: of the land has nothing to do with the word

410
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S9: that God receive God's Word, supersede the condition of the land.

411
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S9: Because Isaac stayed and because he stayed, the Bible said

412
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S9: that he planted in the year of famine, and he

413
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S9: was able to reap not because of the condition of

414
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S9: the land, but because of the Word of God.

415
00:23:55,390 --> 00:23:56,910
S6: Boom, sister.

416
00:23:57,070 --> 00:24:01,070
S9: On that this morning that the that God is mightier

417
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S9: than the famine. And I'm so grateful this morning for

418
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S9: that word that has been solidified in my spirit.

419
00:24:07,869 --> 00:24:10,150
S10: Oh, that is so good.

420
00:24:10,190 --> 00:24:10,750
S6: That is.

421
00:24:10,750 --> 00:24:12,109
S10: So good.

422
00:24:12,310 --> 00:24:16,310
S6: This man, you're digging in the word sister. That's. That's

423
00:24:16,310 --> 00:24:19,070
S6: not a magnet verse on a refrigerator. I'm not Pooh

424
00:24:19,109 --> 00:24:22,950
S6: poohing those. That's just good theology. Yeah. What do you say?

425
00:24:22,990 --> 00:24:26,930
S6: 800 555 7898.

426
00:24:26,970 --> 00:24:29,330
S2: You know, for me, I've been holding on to this

427
00:24:29,330 --> 00:24:33,729
S2: one lately. Psalm 1819, it says, he led me to

428
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S2: a place of safety. He rescued me because he delights

429
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S2: in me. And this is something that I've held on to,

430
00:24:40,130 --> 00:24:44,210
S2: because it shows me that Jesus rescued me not out

431
00:24:44,210 --> 00:24:48,970
S2: of some weird sense of obligation, I created him. I

432
00:24:49,010 --> 00:24:51,290
S2: need to, you know, save him. No, he saved me

433
00:24:51,290 --> 00:24:55,129
S2: because he delights in me. He takes great pleasure in

434
00:24:55,170 --> 00:24:57,930
S2: who I am. And I think that's important because even

435
00:24:57,970 --> 00:25:00,530
S2: though we don't say that, we think it's a sense

436
00:25:00,530 --> 00:25:04,409
S2: of obligation. Sometimes we live like Jesus doesn't delight in

437
00:25:04,410 --> 00:25:07,570
S2: us in his creation. No, he delights in you. You

438
00:25:07,570 --> 00:25:09,889
S2: are his son, his daughter, and he will rescue you

439
00:25:09,890 --> 00:25:11,170
S2: because he delights in you.

440
00:25:11,210 --> 00:25:14,650
S6: Beautiful man. What promises are you holding on to that

441
00:25:14,650 --> 00:25:20,290
S6: give you hope in every circumstance? What are they? 800

442
00:25:20,290 --> 00:25:23,669
S6: 555 78. 98. Give us a call.

443
00:25:24,230 --> 00:25:27,229
S1: He was sharing the gospel on the radio and then

444
00:25:27,270 --> 00:25:31,590
S1: he got saved. Young thunders in the crew. It's Karl

445
00:25:31,590 --> 00:25:33,310
S1: and crew on Moody Radio.

446
00:25:33,869 --> 00:25:36,030
S6: All right, going to the phone lines here. Asking you

447
00:25:36,030 --> 00:25:38,670
S6: a question. What promises are you holding on to that

448
00:25:38,670 --> 00:25:43,910
S6: give you hope in every circumstance? Annalise. First time caller

449
00:25:43,910 --> 00:25:47,630
S6: from Bermuda. Oh, I love that island. You got a

450
00:25:47,670 --> 00:25:51,229
S6: you got a great spot. Oh my goodness. Good morning

451
00:25:51,270 --> 00:25:51,710
S6: to you.

452
00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:53,990
S11: Thank you. Good morning.

453
00:25:54,150 --> 00:25:55,470
S6: What are you holding on to.

454
00:25:56,990 --> 00:26:00,550
S11: For we know that all things work together for our good.

455
00:26:00,790 --> 00:26:03,710
S11: To them that love the Lord to the called according

456
00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:06,350
S11: to his purpose. And I am one of them. So

457
00:26:06,350 --> 00:26:08,950
S11: no matter what situation I am in, I know that

458
00:26:08,950 --> 00:26:11,470
S11: all things are working for my good.

459
00:26:11,510 --> 00:26:11,910
S3: Yes.

460
00:26:12,830 --> 00:26:17,310
S6: Yeah. Oh, Annalise. Annalise, I gotta tell you something, sister.

461
00:26:18,150 --> 00:26:21,430
S6: Not only do I hear that in you, but when

462
00:26:21,570 --> 00:26:25,610
S6: my bride first went to Bermuda, we were blown away

463
00:26:25,650 --> 00:26:29,609
S6: at the community of faith there that were genuinely rock

464
00:26:29,609 --> 00:26:33,650
S6: solid in Jesus. There's there's a bunch of Jesus followers

465
00:26:33,650 --> 00:26:35,170
S6: on your island there, sister.

466
00:26:35,410 --> 00:26:35,730
S11: Ah.

467
00:26:36,090 --> 00:26:39,810
S6: Yeah. Oh. Oh, beautiful. All right. Well, good morning to you.

468
00:26:39,810 --> 00:26:42,050
S6: By the way, what's the temperature in Bermuda this morning?

469
00:26:43,570 --> 00:26:46,450
S11: Oh, it was 60 degrees and it's been raining since yesterday.

470
00:26:46,970 --> 00:26:48,530
S11: It should be raining until Friday.

471
00:26:48,570 --> 00:26:52,530
S6: Well, see, that just proves it's rainy in Bermuda. And

472
00:26:52,530 --> 00:26:55,770
S6: Annalise has got it going on with God here this morning.

473
00:26:55,890 --> 00:26:56,330
S6: Not just.

474
00:26:56,330 --> 00:26:57,929
S4: The sunshine that's producing the.

475
00:26:57,930 --> 00:27:02,770
S6: Hope. Romans 828. Awesome stuff. Way to go, Annalise. Let's

476
00:27:02,770 --> 00:27:04,090
S6: go back to the phone lines here.

477
00:27:04,130 --> 00:27:07,010
S4: Let's go to Mark, first time caller from Indiana. Good morning. Mark.

478
00:27:07,010 --> 00:27:09,970
S4: What's the promise that you're holding on to that gives

479
00:27:09,970 --> 00:27:11,890
S4: you hope in every circumstance?

480
00:27:13,290 --> 00:27:17,050
S12: It is he who began a good work in me

481
00:27:17,090 --> 00:27:18,730
S12: is faithful to complete it.

482
00:27:18,730 --> 00:27:23,430
S6: Amen. Philippians one six, man. And he's it's his work. Mark,

483
00:27:23,430 --> 00:27:25,070
S6: how freeing is that, my man?

484
00:27:26,030 --> 00:27:30,910
S12: You know, it. Um, no matter what I'm going through.

485
00:27:31,070 --> 00:27:33,550
S12: You know, if it's a high or a low, if

486
00:27:33,550 --> 00:27:38,150
S12: I'm struggling, I can always go back to that. Uh,

487
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:43,950
S12: because he his work in me is a mystery. You know, uh,

488
00:27:43,950 --> 00:27:47,710
S12: there's things that I don't understand, but he understands. And

489
00:27:47,710 --> 00:27:52,270
S12: so I just go back to that and it just, uh,

490
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:55,750
S12: all the anxiety about any struggles just goes away.

491
00:27:55,790 --> 00:27:58,190
S10: Boom, brother, boom, boom, boom.

492
00:27:58,990 --> 00:28:01,070
S6: Awesome, man. That's why we call you the boom crew.

493
00:28:01,070 --> 00:28:02,510
S6: Let's get at least one more in here.

494
00:28:02,510 --> 00:28:06,230
S4: Ali Francis, first time caller from Murfreesboro, Tennessee. Tell us

495
00:28:06,310 --> 00:28:08,469
S4: we got about a minute for you. What's that promise

496
00:28:08,510 --> 00:28:11,310
S4: you're holding on to it.

497
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:15,990
S13: Verse 90, Psalm 91, verse two. And it's a rewording

498
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:19,010
S13: of it. Lord, you are our refuge. We trust you

499
00:28:19,010 --> 00:28:21,730
S13: and we are safe. Five years ago, my husband was

500
00:28:21,730 --> 00:28:25,770
S13: thrown into emergency surgery and I was told he may die.

501
00:28:26,490 --> 00:28:29,209
S13: He may never walk again, or my baby able to

502
00:28:29,210 --> 00:28:32,690
S13: fix it. And I had nothing there. No Bible, no nothing.

503
00:28:32,690 --> 00:28:35,929
S13: Nobody could see me because it was Covid. And I

504
00:28:36,010 --> 00:28:39,050
S13: hung on to that verse through three emergency surgeries. And

505
00:28:39,050 --> 00:28:41,370
S13: yet again, another one, two and a half years later,

506
00:28:41,410 --> 00:28:43,010
S13: and I'm still hanging on to it.

507
00:28:43,250 --> 00:28:44,290
S6: Oh, Frances.

508
00:28:44,330 --> 00:28:44,370
S8: I.

509
00:28:44,810 --> 00:28:49,450
S6: See you're one of those rock solid, unshakeable women of

510
00:28:49,490 --> 00:28:52,810
S6: God because you got your feet on the rock, and

511
00:28:52,810 --> 00:28:57,850
S6: that's beautiful. How beautiful is this, guys? I have this hope.

512
00:28:57,890 --> 00:29:01,450
S6: 10th Avenue North get anchored in the word of God.

513
00:29:01,850 --> 00:29:04,890
S1: He's a sports fanatic with a stat for anything you

514
00:29:04,890 --> 00:29:09,170
S1: can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's

515
00:29:09,170 --> 00:29:11,370
S1: curl and crew on Moody Radio.

516
00:29:11,930 --> 00:29:15,290
S4: Well, when you think about marriage, there is a segment

517
00:29:15,290 --> 00:29:18,950
S4: of the population that grew up always planning what their

518
00:29:18,950 --> 00:29:23,830
S4: wedding would look like. Maybe eyeing dresses and floral arrangements

519
00:29:23,830 --> 00:29:27,230
S4: and picking out names for children when they were a

520
00:29:27,270 --> 00:29:30,790
S4: child themselves. I had a best friend like that growing up.

521
00:29:30,790 --> 00:29:33,710
S4: My next door neighbor. She had names picked out when

522
00:29:33,710 --> 00:29:36,750
S4: she was probably about 12 or 13 years old. But

523
00:29:36,750 --> 00:29:39,510
S4: then there's another segment of the population that looks at

524
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:42,430
S4: marriage and thinks, that seems like a lot of work.

525
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:45,150
S4: A lot of trouble. And I don't know if that's

526
00:29:45,150 --> 00:29:48,590
S4: for me. I tell the story of my husband, who

527
00:29:48,910 --> 00:29:52,190
S4: had a friend who had been dating a woman for

528
00:29:52,190 --> 00:29:54,990
S4: a while, and he said, why don't you just. This

529
00:29:54,990 --> 00:29:57,150
S4: was my husband to the friend. Why don't you just

530
00:29:57,150 --> 00:29:59,710
S4: go ahead and get married? And he goes, you know what?

531
00:29:59,710 --> 00:30:02,350
S4: I just don't think I'm. I don't think I'm ready yet.

532
00:30:02,350 --> 00:30:05,190
S4: I'm just not ready for marriage. And then my husband

533
00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:07,950
S4: gave me the kicker, the part that really knocked me back.

534
00:30:07,950 --> 00:30:09,830
S4: I said, well, how long have they been together? And

535
00:30:09,830 --> 00:30:15,850
S4: he said, 17 years. I said, 17 years. Jill Savage,

536
00:30:15,890 --> 00:30:18,610
S4: our guest right now. You've got you've got people on

537
00:30:18,610 --> 00:30:21,410
S4: all sides of this one, people who are ready for

538
00:30:21,450 --> 00:30:24,970
S4: marriage before they're even through puberty. And then you've got

539
00:30:24,970 --> 00:30:28,210
S4: people who go, yeah, I'm gonna keep this train moving

540
00:30:28,210 --> 00:30:31,610
S4: along where I can just stay with this person for

541
00:30:31,610 --> 00:30:34,730
S4: a long time. And it's just a piece of paper, right?

542
00:30:34,890 --> 00:30:37,490
S4: Jill Savage, our guest. What do you say to that?

543
00:30:37,530 --> 00:30:40,930
S14: Oh my goodness. But you're right. People swing from one

544
00:30:40,930 --> 00:30:43,770
S14: side of the spectrum to the other when it comes

545
00:30:43,770 --> 00:30:47,010
S14: to marriage, for sure. And are any of us ever

546
00:30:47,010 --> 00:30:50,810
S14: ready for marriage? Ali. I don't think so. Let's be honest.

547
00:30:51,450 --> 00:30:54,610
S14: I don't think any of us are. I don't think that, honestly.

548
00:30:54,810 --> 00:30:57,490
S14: I think very few of us read the fine print

549
00:30:57,490 --> 00:31:01,130
S14: on marriage, which is like, you know, hey, this is

550
00:31:01,130 --> 00:31:04,290
S14: going to require dying to self. This is going to

551
00:31:04,330 --> 00:31:08,530
S14: require giving of yourself. You know, we all say the words,

552
00:31:08,570 --> 00:31:11,130
S14: or at least most of us, for better or for worse.

553
00:31:11,130 --> 00:31:14,130
S14: But do we really think worse will happen? I think

554
00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:17,030
S14: that often we have stars in our eyes.

555
00:31:17,310 --> 00:31:21,710
S4: Jill Savage, author, blogger, international speaker. She hosts the No

556
00:31:21,710 --> 00:31:25,550
S4: More Perfect podcast. She's been featured on focus on the Family, crosswalk,

557
00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:30,590
S4: Family Life Today, Today's Christian Woman magazine. You know, I'm curious,

558
00:31:30,590 --> 00:31:35,630
S4: what kind of expectations did you go into when you were, uh,

559
00:31:35,630 --> 00:31:38,790
S4: getting married? You were engaged to be married to your husband, Mark.

560
00:31:38,950 --> 00:31:41,750
S4: Did you expect. Were you in sort of that happily

561
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:44,390
S4: ever after fairy tale vibe?

562
00:31:44,830 --> 00:31:49,070
S14: I was, I was, and I, I had a couple now,

563
00:31:49,070 --> 00:31:51,550
S14: it's funny because if you ask both of us, I

564
00:31:51,590 --> 00:31:55,790
S14: had a few unrealistic expectations. My husband had a whole

565
00:31:55,830 --> 00:32:00,830
S14: truckload of unrealistic expectations. Um, and that, you know, fueled

566
00:32:00,830 --> 00:32:03,950
S14: some of the challenges that we later faced, which I'm

567
00:32:03,950 --> 00:32:06,310
S14: sure you and I will talk about. But there were

568
00:32:06,310 --> 00:32:10,190
S14: two for me, big ones. One is I did not

569
00:32:10,190 --> 00:32:15,810
S14: expect us to argue and disagree because I didn't ever

570
00:32:15,850 --> 00:32:20,490
S14: see my parents do that. And so I didn't. I

571
00:32:20,530 --> 00:32:23,410
S14: know whether they did that behind closed doors, whether one

572
00:32:23,410 --> 00:32:25,810
S14: of them was just so much of a pleaser that

573
00:32:26,050 --> 00:32:30,530
S14: that they didn't incite that kind of disagreement. But that

574
00:32:30,530 --> 00:32:32,770
S14: didn't happen for us because we had our first argument

575
00:32:32,770 --> 00:32:36,570
S14: on our honeymoon. So that blew that expectation out of

576
00:32:36,570 --> 00:32:39,690
S14: the water. And then the second one that I struggled

577
00:32:39,690 --> 00:32:43,450
S14: with is I really thought we would think more alike.

578
00:32:43,690 --> 00:32:47,610
S14: And again, I'm thinking that this probably came from me seeing,

579
00:32:47,650 --> 00:32:51,250
S14: you know, this very peaceful marriage that my parents had.

580
00:32:51,490 --> 00:32:56,210
S14: And I assumed they thought more alike. Now, I've come

581
00:32:56,210 --> 00:32:59,130
S14: to know over the years, they didn't. They learned how

582
00:32:59,130 --> 00:33:03,770
S14: to handle that in different ways. But, um, that surprised

583
00:33:03,770 --> 00:33:06,810
S14: me big time. I just thought, our brains don't even

584
00:33:06,810 --> 00:33:07,730
S14: work the same.

585
00:33:07,770 --> 00:33:11,010
S4: Yeah. Jill Savage, our guest right now. You've been very

586
00:33:11,150 --> 00:33:14,350
S4: open and honest throughout your years of ministry about the

587
00:33:14,350 --> 00:33:17,990
S4: biggest struggle that your husband and you walked through. Talk

588
00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:19,790
S4: a little bit about that for our listeners.

589
00:33:20,150 --> 00:33:24,469
S14: Yeah. Well, when we had been married 28 years, let's say,

590
00:33:24,510 --> 00:33:29,270
S14: particularly for my husband, that had been 28 years of

591
00:33:29,750 --> 00:33:35,390
S14: disappointment because of his expectations. And it honestly wasn't even

592
00:33:35,390 --> 00:33:39,470
S14: about marriage. Like he was disappointed in God. He was

593
00:33:39,470 --> 00:33:44,750
S14: disappointed in marriage. He was disappointed in people. And so

594
00:33:44,910 --> 00:33:48,670
S14: he was in a not good place. And in the

595
00:33:48,670 --> 00:33:52,310
S14: midst of all of that disappointment and and at that point,

596
00:33:52,350 --> 00:33:56,190
S14: his perspective was, you know, everybody else is a problem.

597
00:33:56,190 --> 00:33:59,230
S14: I'm not the problem. Everybody else is a problem. And

598
00:33:59,230 --> 00:34:02,590
S14: so he couldn't get a, you know, find any place

599
00:34:02,590 --> 00:34:05,590
S14: where he had contentment. And so he thought, well, you know,

600
00:34:05,670 --> 00:34:10,480
S14: the answer to that is I need to find contentment elsewhere.

601
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:16,800
S14: And even though that went against what he deep down believed,

602
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,320
S14: he was in a place. And when he tells the story,

603
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,719
S14: he often uses these exact words. He was in a

604
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,640
S14: place without hope. And when he was in a place

605
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:32,360
S14: without hope, then it caused him to start to say, well,

606
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,680
S14: I'm going to have to take care of this myself.

607
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:39,360
S14: I'm going to find the happiness I'm looking for. And ultimately,

608
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,239
S14: he had an affair, and that affair went on long enough.

609
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,920
S14: About eight months. Nine months, that actually he began to

610
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:52,640
S14: realize there wasn't hope in that. And so that became

611
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:57,279
S14: an awakening for him to go, wait a minute, I

612
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,200
S14: don't even think this is the answer either. However, as

613
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,480
S14: you can imagine, by that time it had blown up

614
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,120
S14: our family. It had blown up my heart. Um, it

615
00:35:08,219 --> 00:35:11,259
S14: was a really dark, difficult season.

616
00:35:11,820 --> 00:35:15,460
S4: You know, you mentioned that he had lost hope. Did

617
00:35:15,460 --> 00:35:18,739
S4: you when you became aware, obviously you knew that you

618
00:35:18,739 --> 00:35:22,580
S4: could see that he was struggling in his faith in his,

619
00:35:22,860 --> 00:35:26,020
S4: you know, sense of purpose, sense of identity. Did you

620
00:35:26,020 --> 00:35:29,940
S4: have hope that things could be repaired or did you

621
00:35:29,940 --> 00:35:31,980
S4: go to a place of hopelessness too?

622
00:35:32,380 --> 00:35:35,980
S14: Thankfully, I stayed in a place of hope. I was

623
00:35:35,980 --> 00:35:40,260
S14: in a place of deep pain. So don't confuse us.

624
00:35:40,580 --> 00:35:43,980
S14: I mean, I probably cried more in those nine months.

625
00:35:43,980 --> 00:35:46,620
S14: I've cried and I've cried in my entire life. So

626
00:35:46,620 --> 00:35:51,540
S14: it was deep pain, but I always had hope that

627
00:35:51,700 --> 00:35:56,219
S14: he could. He could, um, make a u turn. I

628
00:35:56,219 --> 00:36:01,819
S14: had hope that God was at work. I absolutely had

629
00:36:01,820 --> 00:36:06,620
S14: hope that our marriage could be restored. But there were

630
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,800
S14: many seasons that I thought like, I trust that God

631
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,880
S14: is pursuing. Mark. I don't know if I have hope

632
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:20,040
S14: that Mark himself will actually respond to the pursuit. So

633
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,560
S14: I never lost my hope in Christ. I believe that

634
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,120
S14: God was at work and that if Mark would respond

635
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,280
S14: to that work, to his word, his pursuit of him,

636
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,720
S14: that things could turn around. But I wasn't so sure

637
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,440
S14: if he was actually going to respond. And as I said,

638
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,640
S14: it took just a little under a year. And finally

639
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,839
S14: he did. But that doesn't always happen for everyone, you know,

640
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,880
S14: because you have to have a person that is willing

641
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,399
S14: to even hear the tiniest bit of the Holy Spirit's

642
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:54,759
S14: call on their life.

643
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,920
S4: Jill Savage, our guest right now coming up, she mentioned

644
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,080
S4: that here's the Cliff notes version. The is that her

645
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,319
S4: and her husband, Mark, have been restored and are doing

646
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,020
S4: ministry together, but I'm going to ask her to take

647
00:37:07,020 --> 00:37:09,459
S4: us a little bit on that journey that took them

648
00:37:09,460 --> 00:37:11,980
S4: to get to the place where they are today. Maybe

649
00:37:11,980 --> 00:37:14,859
S4: you're listening today. Maybe it's not been infidelity, but it's

650
00:37:14,860 --> 00:37:18,060
S4: been something else that has caused you to feel hopeless

651
00:37:18,100 --> 00:37:20,819
S4: in your marriage. Hope is on the way. More with

652
00:37:20,820 --> 00:37:21,980
S4: Jill Savage coming up.

653
00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:25,460
S1: Want to hear that again? Just download the Curl and

654
00:37:25,460 --> 00:37:27,980
S1: Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.

655
00:37:28,739 --> 00:37:32,940
S4: Well, marriage is the greatest gift, but it can also

656
00:37:32,940 --> 00:37:35,980
S4: be one of the greatest challenges. One of, I should say,

657
00:37:36,300 --> 00:37:38,580
S4: the greatest gift that God gives us is His Son.

658
00:37:38,580 --> 00:37:41,899
S4: He gives us himself, he gives us salvation, and he

659
00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:45,660
S4: gives us someone to walk through life. With this covenant

660
00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:48,700
S4: we stand before God. We make a commitment not just

661
00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:52,300
S4: to another person, but to God himself. To love, to honor,

662
00:37:52,300 --> 00:37:56,180
S4: to cherish. It's the marriage I think sometimes Jill Savage,

663
00:37:56,180 --> 00:37:58,859
S4: our guests right now, I think sometimes we forget what

664
00:37:58,860 --> 00:38:02,100
S4: marriage really is about, that it's more than just the

665
00:38:02,100 --> 00:38:06,680
S4: uniting of two lives together, that this covenant actually represents

666
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:11,000
S4: the relationship between the Church and Christ, right?

667
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:15,759
S14: Yes, exactly. And what did Christ do for the church?

668
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,800
S14: He gave his life. That's the dying to self that

669
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:26,120
S14: marriage really brings about. You know, the subtitle of Gary

670
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,000
S14: Thomas's book, Sacred Marriage is what if marriage wasn't really

671
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,640
S14: designed to make us happy, but to make us holy? And, man,

672
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:38,480
S14: that right there speaks so much to the fine print,

673
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,720
S14: you know that I was talking about earlier. But most

674
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,879
S14: of us think it's designed to make us happy. And

675
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:49,479
S14: you know what's a beautiful thing? Um, and that book really, uh,

676
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,000
S14: in the midst of this hard season for my husband,

677
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:58,480
S14: which started bubbling up a year before the affair happened, and, um,

678
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,480
S14: he had started to read Gary's book and it had

679
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,300
S14: really made him angry. I mean, he just really he

680
00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:08,420
S14: didn't believe that no marriage is supposed to make us happy.

681
00:39:08,820 --> 00:39:14,300
S14: And when Mark actually surrendered, which, by the way, his

682
00:39:14,300 --> 00:39:17,140
S14: surrender date was 14 years ago, Easter Sunday.

683
00:39:17,180 --> 00:39:17,620
S4: Wow.

684
00:39:18,500 --> 00:39:24,620
S14: So this week for us really always has a lot

685
00:39:24,620 --> 00:39:29,100
S14: of deep meaning because it was the beginning of that turnaround.

686
00:39:29,260 --> 00:39:33,259
S14: But about three months after Mark surrendered and made the

687
00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:37,740
S14: U-turn and and eventually moved back home, he came home

688
00:39:37,739 --> 00:39:40,060
S14: one day from work. And, you know, he'd really been

689
00:39:40,060 --> 00:39:43,820
S14: pursuing holiness. And he came home one day and he said,

690
00:39:43,820 --> 00:39:46,620
S14: I had a realization today. And I said, what's that?

691
00:39:46,620 --> 00:39:51,540
S14: And he said, I realized I'm actually happy. I'm really happy.

692
00:39:51,620 --> 00:39:56,299
S14: And that was the byproduct of the holiness. That was

693
00:39:56,300 --> 00:40:00,140
S14: the byproduct of the surrender. That was the byproduct of

694
00:40:00,140 --> 00:40:05,240
S14: saying it's no longer my way. My will, my way.

695
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,640
S14: It's now God, your will your way. I'm going to

696
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,600
S14: do things your way. And the byproduct was the happiness.

697
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,800
S4: Jill Savage with us this morning. Author, blogger, international. Speaker,

698
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,280
S4: I'm sure that the question you probably get asked most

699
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,080
S4: often when people learn about you and your husband's journey, uh,

700
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,480
S4: the period of infidelity where Mark was away from your

701
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,400
S4: whole family. How did you get back to a place

702
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:35,200
S4: where you're not just married, not perfect marriage. I know

703
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,200
S4: from your no more perfect series that you're not about that,

704
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,920
S4: but where you are happy in the Lord.

705
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,920
S14: Yeah, absolutely. You know, it does take time. One of

706
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,279
S14: the biggest things, especially for the person who betrays, is

707
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,640
S14: they think that if they just make a recommitment, they

708
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,760
S14: say that they're sorry, they promise they won't do it again.

709
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,180
S14: Then we should just be able to move forward. That

710
00:41:01,180 --> 00:41:05,340
S14: isn't the way it works when you are rebuilding trust.

711
00:41:05,580 --> 00:41:08,060
S14: In fact, we like to say that there's like kind

712
00:41:08,060 --> 00:41:11,100
S14: of a, a way to think a formula for rebuilding trust.

713
00:41:11,100 --> 00:41:16,220
S14: And that's consistent change behavior over time. And that equals trust.

714
00:41:16,540 --> 00:41:19,819
S14: And so you can't shortcut it. Um, and we like

715
00:41:19,820 --> 00:41:22,660
S14: to also think of it as if you imagine a

716
00:41:22,660 --> 00:41:26,460
S14: bathtub and the bathtub when you get married, the water

717
00:41:26,460 --> 00:41:29,500
S14: is full in the bathtub and that water represents trust.

718
00:41:29,620 --> 00:41:34,700
S14: And when something like infidelity happens, the bathtub drains and

719
00:41:34,700 --> 00:41:37,900
S14: you can't say, I'm sorry, I'll never do it again.

720
00:41:37,900 --> 00:41:41,779
S14: Please forgive me. Then your partner forgives you, and then

721
00:41:41,820 --> 00:41:44,660
S14: you just. That fills the bathtub. That's not the way

722
00:41:44,660 --> 00:41:48,660
S14: it works. You actually have to fill the bathtub one

723
00:41:48,700 --> 00:41:50,500
S14: tablespoon at a time.

724
00:41:50,540 --> 00:41:50,900
S4: Wow.

725
00:41:51,219 --> 00:41:55,380
S14: And that takes time. And so for us, it took

726
00:41:55,420 --> 00:41:59,279
S14: about 18 months. And what did that look like? It

727
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:05,480
S14: looked like counseling. It looked like lots of conversations. Where

728
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:10,440
S14: there was patience, there was kindness. There was compassion. That

729
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,759
S14: meant pushing accountability, which meant like, if my husband was

730
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,600
S14: going to be late coming home from somewhere, he would

731
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:20,680
S14: call me and say, hey, this is what's going on. Um, I'm,

732
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:22,759
S14: you know, this is where I'm going to be. It

733
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,360
S14: was sharing locations. All of those kind of things. Puts

734
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,120
S14: the water back in the bathtub. Those are all tablespoons,

735
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:36,200
S14: even sometimes quarter cups of water. And it just takes time.

736
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,360
S14: But it is possible.

737
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,399
S4: You know, I'm going to throw another analogy at you.

738
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,479
S4: But a lot of times in marriage it's not the

739
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,280
S4: big blowout I think of a tire. It's the slow leak.

740
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,680
S4: And you have people listening who are in marriages where

741
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,760
S4: maybe there's not been some big issue of infidelity. There's

742
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,299
S4: not been a big anything. It's just over time. You

743
00:42:57,300 --> 00:42:59,339
S4: have two people who look at each other and go,

744
00:42:59,380 --> 00:43:03,020
S4: I don't really know if I love this person anymore

745
00:43:03,180 --> 00:43:06,540
S4: and I am not even sure that I know them.

746
00:43:06,780 --> 00:43:09,420
S4: What do you say to people who feel kind of

747
00:43:09,460 --> 00:43:12,299
S4: quietly hopeless? There's no big something to point to. They

748
00:43:12,300 --> 00:43:13,420
S4: just don't feel it.

749
00:43:13,580 --> 00:43:18,180
S14: Yeah, that happens in so many marriages. In fact, it's

750
00:43:18,180 --> 00:43:20,780
S14: probably one of the main causes of what we call

751
00:43:20,780 --> 00:43:24,700
S14: silver divorces, which is when people get divorced after being

752
00:43:24,700 --> 00:43:29,020
S14: married 30, 35, 40 years. And we talk about that

753
00:43:29,020 --> 00:43:31,820
S14: in our No More Perfect Marriages book, and we call

754
00:43:31,820 --> 00:43:36,260
S14: them the slow fades. And a slow fade is a

755
00:43:36,540 --> 00:43:42,780
S14: slow erosion of connection. And what I would say is

756
00:43:43,020 --> 00:43:46,780
S14: the slow fades can be identified and they can be

757
00:43:46,780 --> 00:43:50,660
S14: stopped if you can just learn what they are. If

758
00:43:50,660 --> 00:43:54,300
S14: you can get the help to begin to turn around

759
00:43:54,300 --> 00:43:59,080
S14: some of the mindset that has contributed to those slow fades.

760
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,720
S14: And an example of this, actually, is that my husband

761
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:06,840
S14: was experiencing the slow fade of unrealistic expectations. That's one

762
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,280
S14: of them that we identify in our No More Perfect

763
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,040
S14: Marriages book. And that slow fade of expectations moved him

764
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:22,560
S14: from discontentment to discouragement to disillusionment, to disconnection. And even

765
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,640
S14: if the affair hadn't happened, so that he was then

766
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,279
S14: primed for the affair, even if that affair hadn't happened,

767
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,760
S14: we would have been at a crossroads where he was

768
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:39,640
S14: very disconnected because his expectations were unrealistic, and there were

769
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:43,680
S14: some other dynamics playing out. I had the slow fade

770
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:49,520
S14: of emotional shutdown. I grew up in a buck up family,

771
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,319
S14: so you just kind of buck up and you just

772
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,180
S14: kind of put one foot in front of the other.

773
00:44:55,180 --> 00:44:59,100
S14: But what that did is it kept me emotionally distant.

774
00:44:59,540 --> 00:45:03,860
S14: And that was contributing to our disconnection. So we both

775
00:45:03,860 --> 00:45:07,820
S14: had areas we needed to work on. And that's ultimately

776
00:45:07,820 --> 00:45:10,500
S14: what Mark and I love helping couples do is find

777
00:45:10,540 --> 00:45:14,419
S14: those areas, understand them, and then get to work on

778
00:45:14,500 --> 00:45:18,500
S14: turning that dynamic around because it can be turned around.

779
00:45:18,739 --> 00:45:21,580
S4: Jill Savage, I know you're listening and you're going, oh, okay,

780
00:45:21,620 --> 00:45:24,980
S4: where can I get more? She mentioned a couple of books,

781
00:45:25,020 --> 00:45:28,700
S4: the No More Perfect Marriage. There's also one for moms.

782
00:45:29,020 --> 00:45:31,540
S4: I want you to get connected the podcast as well.

783
00:45:31,540 --> 00:45:37,620
S4: Just text perfect to (800) 555-7898. You'll find lots of resources

784
00:45:37,620 --> 00:45:43,580
S4: available on her website. Text perfect to (800) 555-7898.

785
00:45:44,140 --> 00:45:48,140
S1: Walking closer to Jesus every day. You're listening to Carl

786
00:45:48,140 --> 00:45:49,620
S1: and Cru J.

787
00:45:49,620 --> 00:45:53,160
S6: Warner Wallace. I'm dying to know this. I've never asked

788
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:57,520
S6: you this. What's the coolest cold case you ever broke on?

789
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:02,160
S6: The smallest fragment of evidence to break that case wide open.

790
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:06,000
S15: Oh, gosh. Um, well, I had a case one time

791
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,359
S15: that I. We broke because the guy left a piece

792
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,399
S15: of shoe foam at the crime scene, and it sat

793
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,040
S15: there for 30 years. No one could figure out what

794
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,400
S15: this piece of foam was. And it turns out he

795
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,360
S15: was the kind of guy who didn't untie his boots,

796
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,319
S15: and he would just slip them off and on, and

797
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,600
S15: he wore out the back of the boot. And when

798
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:24,880
S15: he was kneeling down after he had killed this girl

799
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,240
S15: to take money out of her purse, his heel rose

800
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,560
S15: up on the back of his boot and popped out

801
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,440
S15: the foam. And it was laying at the crime scene,

802
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,000
S15: and it was. And people were looking at that for

803
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,080
S15: years and couldn't figure out what it was. And we

804
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,720
S15: ultimately found the boot. Uh, this is 30 years later.

805
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,520
S15: We found the boot where the foam came from. And

806
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,600
S15: it also showed that every other pair of shoes he

807
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,200
S15: had was messed up that way. So he just had

808
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,839
S15: this pattern, you know? And sure enough, that was that

809
00:46:50,900 --> 00:46:53,980
S15: piece of foam. Ended up being the deal killer for him.

810
00:46:54,500 --> 00:46:57,779
S6: What do you guys do when you find evidence like that?

811
00:46:57,820 --> 00:47:00,500
S6: Is it just high fives all around? I mean, that's

812
00:47:00,500 --> 00:47:02,260
S6: got to be pretty exhilarating.

813
00:47:02,620 --> 00:47:05,020
S15: Oh, no, it definitely was. I'm feeling from the very

814
00:47:05,020 --> 00:47:06,620
S15: beginning was if I can just put this to this

815
00:47:06,620 --> 00:47:09,180
S15: guy in any way, if it came off his shoulder,

816
00:47:09,180 --> 00:47:10,940
S15: if it came off his backpack, we just got to

817
00:47:10,940 --> 00:47:12,500
S15: figure out where did this foam come from? Because it

818
00:47:12,500 --> 00:47:14,900
S15: was clearly not part of the crime scene. So it

819
00:47:14,900 --> 00:47:17,180
S15: wasn't part of the scene before the crime. So. So

820
00:47:17,180 --> 00:47:19,020
S15: we knew it had to belong to the suspect. So

821
00:47:19,020 --> 00:47:21,020
S15: when that happens, it was as a matter of fact,

822
00:47:21,020 --> 00:47:23,779
S15: that case was not my first cold case, but it

823
00:47:23,780 --> 00:47:26,900
S15: was the case that ultimately convinced that our our, our

824
00:47:26,940 --> 00:47:29,180
S15: agency to open up a cold case team for about

825
00:47:29,180 --> 00:47:29,780
S15: a decade.

826
00:47:29,820 --> 00:47:30,260
S8: Wow.

827
00:47:30,340 --> 00:47:30,860
S15: It was good.

828
00:47:31,100 --> 00:47:31,660
S8: Okay.

829
00:47:31,700 --> 00:47:33,420
S6: Anyone else glad I asked that question.

830
00:47:33,700 --> 00:47:35,820
S8: How about them apples? That's fascinating.

831
00:47:35,860 --> 00:47:39,940
S6: So now you get this regenerated J. Warner Wallace who?

832
00:47:39,940 --> 00:47:43,620
S6: God just rocks your soul. What in the world spurred

833
00:47:43,620 --> 00:47:47,940
S6: you on to take this? Really trade tools of the

834
00:47:47,940 --> 00:47:51,160
S6: trade and apply it to this newfound faith. And in fact,

835
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,880
S6: you leveraged it before you even came to Christ, right?

836
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,520
S15: Oh, absolutely. Like anybody else, if you're somebody who, let's

837
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:01,000
S15: say you're just a historian or you're a teacher of philosophy, okay, well,

838
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,000
S15: then when you come to the Gospels, you're reading it

839
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:05,600
S15: through that lens. That's who you are. So the same

840
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,640
S15: was true for me. I was I had this skill

841
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,440
S15: set about eyewitness accounts and people will say all the

842
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:14,000
S15: time to me, well, these aren't eyewitness accounts. Well, look,

843
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:15,839
S15: when we have an eyewitness, we don't just give them

844
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,560
S15: a piece of paper and tell him, write down your account,

845
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,120
S15: we interview him and we write the account. And so

846
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,000
S15: what you have is a supplemental report written by a

847
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:28,200
S15: detective who's basically quoting what the witness says. Well, same

848
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:29,960
S15: thing is happening with Luke. He says, I'm talking to

849
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,040
S15: the eyewitnesses and servants of the word, and I'm writing.

850
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,320
S15: The account doesn't have to be written by the eyewitness

851
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,960
S15: in order to be an eyewitness account. That's just the

852
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,000
S15: nature of all of our supplemental reports. So. So I

853
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,759
S15: just knew that was a process I could apply. And

854
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,239
S15: you guys have been talking about hope. And this is

855
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:47,960
S15: the thing that I think is fascinating. Well, yeah, we

856
00:48:48,020 --> 00:48:50,940
S15: can go to the scriptures for sure and talk about

857
00:48:50,940 --> 00:48:53,180
S15: what the scriptures say about hope. And that's what we

858
00:48:53,180 --> 00:48:55,979
S15: should be doing. But isn't it interesting that the Bible

859
00:48:55,980 --> 00:48:58,460
S15: describes the world the way it really is? And what

860
00:48:58,460 --> 00:49:01,660
S15: it describes about hope we know is true, even if

861
00:49:01,660 --> 00:49:04,460
S15: we didn't have a Bible? There are studies now that

862
00:49:04,460 --> 00:49:08,100
S15: have shown how some people have more hope than others,

863
00:49:08,100 --> 00:49:10,700
S15: and what it is that gives them that hope. And

864
00:49:10,780 --> 00:49:12,940
S15: often it is. It is really a view of the

865
00:49:12,940 --> 00:49:18,299
S15: world that includes some sense that we have an expectation

866
00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:20,980
S15: of a life after this one. Yeah. As a matter

867
00:49:20,980 --> 00:49:23,500
S15: of fact, people who have a sense that we will

868
00:49:23,500 --> 00:49:27,900
S15: live beyond the grave thrive, and they have much more hope.

869
00:49:28,140 --> 00:49:32,259
S15: They behave differently, even under critical illnesses. And of all

870
00:49:32,260 --> 00:49:35,219
S15: the ways that this happens, Christianity is the best. You

871
00:49:35,219 --> 00:49:38,660
S15: know what they call it? They call it the persisting self.

872
00:49:38,860 --> 00:49:42,020
S15: People who have a strong view of what is called

873
00:49:42,020 --> 00:49:46,640
S15: the persisting self after you die have a better sense

874
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:50,919
S15: of hope, especially as as they're aging. And so, for example,

875
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,120
S15: other views have a sense that you might have a

876
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,839
S15: life after this one, but you don't persist. The you

877
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,600
S15: that you know. So for example, if you're a Buddhist,

878
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,000
S15: they don't believe in the existence of self at all.

879
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,319
S15: According to Buddhism, your sense of self is just an illusion. Yeah. Right.

880
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,120
S15: And that's why for that reason, you're not going to

881
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,360
S15: extend beyond your mortal existence because they don't have a

882
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:14,560
S15: sense of self. Hinduism argues for a reincarnation of self.

883
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,319
S15: So yes, the self, there's another version of self, but

884
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:21,200
S15: it's not you. That's why it's not the persisting you

885
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:26,120
S15: that moves on. It's a reincarnated, a completely different self.

886
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,160
S15: Of course, atheism offers for no persistent self beyond the grave.

887
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,600
S15: But what does Christianity offer? It offers this sense that

888
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,040
S15: you will still be you. The you that you know

889
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:39,560
S15: will persist beyond the grave. That's so. And so. It

890
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,600
S15: turns out that sense of persisting self is what the.

891
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,180
S15: You know what non-believers call it. But the reality of

892
00:50:46,180 --> 00:50:48,460
S15: it is, is we believe there is a persisting self

893
00:50:48,460 --> 00:50:50,460
S15: and that's why we thrive. It. We should. Now look.

894
00:50:50,460 --> 00:50:52,260
S15: Does that mean every Christian is going to thrive? No.

895
00:50:52,300 --> 00:50:53,940
S15: There are lots of Christians you and I know who

896
00:50:53,980 --> 00:50:56,820
S15: don't have hope. And it's likely because they are not

897
00:50:56,820 --> 00:51:00,860
S15: leaning in to what Scripture teaches. So there's a connection,

898
00:51:00,860 --> 00:51:03,500
S15: like you said before we started talking here between your

899
00:51:03,500 --> 00:51:05,700
S15: sense of how much do I know about Scripture? What

900
00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:08,140
S15: does Scripture teach and how does it affect the way

901
00:51:08,140 --> 00:51:08,500
S15: I live?

902
00:51:08,540 --> 00:51:08,940
S8: Yeah.

903
00:51:09,060 --> 00:51:11,780
S4: J Warner Wallace, our guest right now, he's a Dateline

904
00:51:11,780 --> 00:51:16,020
S4: featured cold case, homicide detective, popular national speaker, podcast host,

905
00:51:16,060 --> 00:51:20,140
S4: best selling author, cold case Christianity. You know, you mentioned

906
00:51:20,140 --> 00:51:24,259
S4: a couple of different worldviews, religions, belief systems. And one

907
00:51:24,260 --> 00:51:25,980
S4: thing that I've heard you say often, which I think

908
00:51:25,980 --> 00:51:29,060
S4: is really helpful for understanding your perspective, that when you

909
00:51:29,060 --> 00:51:33,259
S4: ask people why they believe anything, whether they are an

910
00:51:33,260 --> 00:51:37,700
S4: atheist or a Buddhist or a Christian, surprisingly, people give

911
00:51:37,739 --> 00:51:41,379
S4: very similar answers. Tell us what those answers are and

912
00:51:41,380 --> 00:51:43,759
S4: why that is important for us to understand?

913
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,440
S15: Well, the answer is. Sadly, the most popular answer is

914
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,000
S15: I was raised that way. But the second most popular

915
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,400
S15: answer is probably in some ways not much better. You

916
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:53,880
S15: can be raised some way and not be raised in

917
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:55,719
S15: the truth. I mean, that's clearly most of us who

918
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,080
S15: would say we were atheists for years, but that was

919
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,160
S15: probably our situation. But the second popular answer is, well,

920
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,720
S15: I've had an experience that demonstrates for me that this

921
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:06,840
S15: view of the world is true. I prayed a prayer

922
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:08,840
S15: was answered. I had something that seems to me to

923
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:12,919
S15: be so unlikely it could happen by natural causes that

924
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,000
S15: it had to be God. But the problem, of course,

925
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,400
S15: is that everyone who believes in any version of God,

926
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,080
S15: that is still their most popular answer too. So if

927
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,960
S15: we're going to say it was my experience, well, this

928
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:26,919
S15: is what my my Mormon friends would do. They would

929
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:28,759
S15: go door to door on their missions trip, and at

930
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,600
S15: some point they're going to share their personal experience. Well,

931
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,440
S15: of course they would have to do that because you

932
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:37,040
S15: cannot share the historical accuracy of the Book of Mormon

933
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,919
S15: because it's not historically accurate. I know I say that

934
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,660
S15: in a show like this where so many of us now, um,

935
00:52:43,700 --> 00:52:47,859
S15: so many people who are raised LDS would say, well,

936
00:52:47,860 --> 00:52:50,460
S15: we're Christians too. But to be honest, the dividing line

937
00:52:50,460 --> 00:52:52,700
S15: for Christianity is, well, do you believe in the triune

938
00:52:52,700 --> 00:52:56,020
S15: nature of the Godhead? Yeah, because the triune formulation, the

939
00:52:56,060 --> 00:52:58,980
S15: Trinity is the deal killer. It separates us from from Mormons,

940
00:52:58,980 --> 00:53:02,339
S15: from LDS, latter day Saints. And we would say that

941
00:53:02,340 --> 00:53:06,340
S15: that's outside the boundary of what we believe as Christians. So,

942
00:53:06,340 --> 00:53:08,219
S15: so they really are a different group. And they would

943
00:53:08,219 --> 00:53:10,580
S15: say that they came to their experience because they read

944
00:53:10,580 --> 00:53:12,700
S15: the Book of Mormon. They prayed about it and they

945
00:53:12,700 --> 00:53:15,700
S15: had an experience that demonstrated it was true. That's why

946
00:53:15,700 --> 00:53:19,859
S15: we have to be very careful of unchecked experiences. We

947
00:53:19,860 --> 00:53:22,940
S15: have to measure the experience against something that we know.

948
00:53:23,100 --> 00:53:25,259
S15: Whatever worldview you hold, if you want to think that

949
00:53:25,260 --> 00:53:27,420
S15: Buddhism is true, fine. Then you're going to be measuring

950
00:53:27,540 --> 00:53:31,739
S15: your experience against the scriptures of Buddhism. So you have

951
00:53:31,739 --> 00:53:35,020
S15: to measure our experience against something. And that's why I

952
00:53:35,020 --> 00:53:37,140
S15: think we have to do more than just have an experience.

953
00:53:37,140 --> 00:53:39,739
S15: We have to know what is biblically true, isn't it?

954
00:53:39,860 --> 00:53:43,040
S6: Yeah. Just a quick comment. Isn't it fascinating, Jay Warner,

955
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:46,440
S6: that you can take a Greek article, a a god

956
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:51,280
S6: and twist the entire Trinity in a heartbeat, my friend.

957
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,319
S15: No, there's no doubt about this. And I've been podcasting

958
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,760
S15: about this year because I think that this idea is,

959
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:01,840
S15: is Jesus just the the most important first creation of God,

960
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,320
S15: or is he God incarnate? And if he's God incarnate,

961
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,399
S15: that creates all kinds of problems for monotheism, unless the

962
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,279
S15: Trinity is true, right? So, so we have and it

963
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,759
S15: makes sense because your experience, it turns out the thing

964
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:17,400
S15: that defines us as humans largely is our sense of

965
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:21,320
S15: desire for relationship and community. Well, why do we have this? Why?

966
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,120
S15: It seems sometimes like you'd be better off if you

967
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,480
S15: could just figure out how to, to be independent of

968
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,480
S15: the relationships that hurt you. But the reality of it

969
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:30,640
S15: is you have no, you're created in the image of

970
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:35,279
S15: a Triune God who has been in relationship from all eternity.

971
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:38,640
S15: If Allah is God, he would only know about relationships

972
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:41,820
S15: once he creates something to relate to. In other words,

973
00:54:41,820 --> 00:54:44,740
S15: he would have to learn about love. When he creates

974
00:54:44,739 --> 00:54:47,899
S15: the first object he could love. But this isn't true

975
00:54:47,900 --> 00:54:51,180
S15: for for Yahweh. He's been in a triune love relationship

976
00:54:51,180 --> 00:54:55,140
S15: from all eternity. That sense that you have, that you desire,

977
00:54:55,140 --> 00:54:58,340
S15: that kind of relationship is in you. Because we are

978
00:54:58,940 --> 00:55:02,180
S15: created in the image of a God who is love.

979
00:55:02,340 --> 00:55:05,660
S15: And that's what the Trinity explains, that passage when we

980
00:55:05,660 --> 00:55:07,819
S15: say that God is. It's not that God learned how

981
00:55:07,820 --> 00:55:10,939
S15: to love or God could create love, it's that God

982
00:55:10,940 --> 00:55:14,580
S15: has been in this love relationship from all eternity.

983
00:55:14,620 --> 00:55:18,540
S6: Let us make man in our image. Okay? Coming up here, J.

984
00:55:18,580 --> 00:55:21,260
S6: Warner Wallace, we're going to throw you a fastball here.

985
00:55:21,260 --> 00:55:23,100
S6: You're a cold case guy. You can handle it. Give

986
00:55:23,100 --> 00:55:27,859
S6: us the top five evidences of the risen Jesus. I'm

987
00:55:27,860 --> 00:55:30,420
S6: just hitting them cold, guys. He'll have it. He'll handle

988
00:55:30,420 --> 00:55:31,380
S6: it straight ahead.

989
00:55:32,660 --> 00:55:35,580
S1: Celebrating the unstoppable gospel.

990
00:55:35,739 --> 00:55:38,200
S2: It's not that I've got to fill in these check checkboxes.

991
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,200
S2: So he's okay with me, but it's that I get

992
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,120
S2: to stand close to him so that I can experience

993
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:44,800
S2: the life that he has for me.

994
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:46,960
S1: You're listening to Carl and Cru.

995
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:51,759
S4: Well, marriage is the greatest gift, but it can also

996
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,800
S4: be one of the greatest challenges. One of, I should say,

997
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:57,440
S4: the greatest gift that God gives us is His Son.

998
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,759
S4: He gives us himself, he gives us salvation, and he

999
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:04,480
S4: gives us someone to walk through life. With this covenant

1000
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,520
S4: we stand before God. We make a commitment not just

1001
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:11,120
S4: to another person, but to God himself, to love, to honor,

1002
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:15,000
S4: to cherish. It's the marriage. I think sometimes Jill Savage,

1003
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,680
S4: our guests right now, I think sometimes we forget what

1004
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,960
S4: marriage really is about, that it's more than just the

1005
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:25,360
S4: uniting of two lives together, that this covenant actually represents

1006
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:29,879
S4: the relationship between the church and Christ, right?

1007
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:34,600
S14: Yes, exactly. And what did Christ do for the church?

1008
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:39,690
S14: He gave his life. That's the dying to self. That

1009
00:56:39,690 --> 00:56:44,970
S14: marriage really brings about. You know, the subtitle of Gary

1010
00:56:44,969 --> 00:56:48,850
S14: Thomas's book, Sacred Marriage is what if marriage wasn't really

1011
00:56:48,850 --> 00:56:51,090
S14: designed to make us happy, but to make us holy?

1012
00:56:51,450 --> 00:56:56,170
S14: And man, that right there speaks so much to the

1013
00:56:56,170 --> 00:56:59,690
S14: fine print, you know that I was talking about earlier.

1014
00:57:00,050 --> 00:57:03,050
S14: But most of us think it's designed to make us happy.

1015
00:57:03,489 --> 00:57:06,770
S14: And you know what's a beautiful thing? Um, and that

1016
00:57:06,770 --> 00:57:11,130
S14: book really, uh, in the midst of this hard season

1017
00:57:11,130 --> 00:57:14,890
S14: for my husband, which started bubbling up a year before

1018
00:57:14,930 --> 00:57:18,450
S14: the affair happened. And, um, he had started to read

1019
00:57:18,450 --> 00:57:22,090
S14: Gary's book and it had really made him angry. Um,

1020
00:57:22,130 --> 00:57:25,570
S14: I mean, he just really he didn't believe that no

1021
00:57:25,610 --> 00:57:29,730
S14: marriage is supposed to make us happy. And when Mark

1022
00:57:29,770 --> 00:57:34,010
S14: actually surrendered, which, by the way, his surrender date was

1023
00:57:34,010 --> 00:57:36,030
S14: 14 years ago, Easter Sunday.

1024
00:57:36,070 --> 00:57:36,470
S4: Wow.

1025
00:57:37,350 --> 00:57:43,470
S14: So this week for us really always has a lot

1026
00:57:43,470 --> 00:57:47,910
S14: of deep meaning because it was the beginning of that turnaround.

1027
00:57:48,110 --> 00:57:52,030
S14: But about three months after Mark surrendered and made the

1028
00:57:52,070 --> 00:57:56,550
S14: U-turn and and eventually moved back home, he came home

1029
00:57:56,550 --> 00:57:58,870
S14: one day from work. And, you know, he'd really been

1030
00:57:58,870 --> 00:58:02,630
S14: pursuing holiness. And he came home one day and he said,

1031
00:58:02,630 --> 00:58:05,430
S14: I had a realization today. And I said, what's that?

1032
00:58:05,430 --> 00:58:10,390
S14: And he said, I realized I'm actually happy. I'm really happy.

1033
00:58:10,430 --> 00:58:15,150
S14: And that was the byproduct of the holiness that was

1034
00:58:15,150 --> 00:58:19,550
S14: the byproduct of the surrender. That was the byproduct of saying,

1035
00:58:19,910 --> 00:58:24,310
S14: it's no longer my way, my will, my way. It's

1036
00:58:24,310 --> 00:58:27,590
S14: now God, your will your way. I'm going to do

1037
00:58:27,590 --> 00:58:31,430
S14: things your way. And the byproduct was the happiness.

1038
00:58:31,710 --> 00:58:35,690
S4: Jill Savage with us this morning. Author, blogger, international speaker,

1039
00:58:35,690 --> 00:58:39,090
S4: I'm sure that the question you probably get asked most

1040
00:58:39,130 --> 00:58:42,850
S4: often when people learn about you and your husband's journey, uh,

1041
00:58:43,330 --> 00:58:46,330
S4: the period of infidelity where Mark was away from your

1042
00:58:46,330 --> 00:58:50,250
S4: whole family. How did you get back to a place

1043
00:58:50,250 --> 00:58:54,010
S4: where you're not just married, not perfect marriage. I know

1044
00:58:54,010 --> 00:58:57,010
S4: from your no more perfect series that you're not about that,

1045
00:58:57,010 --> 00:58:59,730
S4: but where you are happy in the Lord.

1046
00:59:00,090 --> 00:59:04,770
S14: Yeah, absolutely. You know, it does take time. One of

1047
00:59:04,770 --> 00:59:09,090
S14: the biggest things, especially for the person who betrays, is

1048
00:59:09,130 --> 00:59:13,250
S14: they think that, um, if they just make a recommitment,

1049
00:59:13,250 --> 00:59:15,690
S14: they say that they're sorry, they promise they won't do

1050
00:59:15,690 --> 00:59:18,650
S14: it again, then we should just be able to move forward.

1051
00:59:19,290 --> 00:59:24,130
S14: That isn't the way it works when you are rebuilding trust.

1052
00:59:24,370 --> 00:59:26,850
S14: In fact, we like to say that there's like kind

1053
00:59:26,850 --> 00:59:29,930
S14: of a, a way to think a formula for rebuilding trust.

1054
00:59:29,930 --> 00:59:35,070
S14: And that's consistent change behavior over time. And that equals trust.

1055
00:59:35,430 --> 00:59:38,790
S14: And so you can't shortcut it. And we like to

1056
00:59:38,790 --> 00:59:42,230
S14: also think of it as if you imagine a bathtub

1057
00:59:42,470 --> 00:59:45,510
S14: and the bathtub when you get married, the water is

1058
00:59:45,510 --> 00:59:48,590
S14: full in the bathtub. And that water represents trust. And

1059
00:59:48,590 --> 00:59:53,750
S14: when something like infidelity happens, the bathtub drains. And you

1060
00:59:53,750 --> 00:59:57,030
S14: can't say, I'm sorry. I'll never do it again. Please

1061
00:59:57,030 --> 01:00:01,310
S14: forgive me. Then your partner forgives you, and then you just.

1062
01:00:01,350 --> 01:00:04,230
S14: That fills the bathtub. That's not the way it works.

1063
01:00:04,470 --> 01:00:08,750
S14: You actually have to fill the bathtub one tablespoon at

1064
01:00:08,750 --> 01:00:09,350
S14: a time.

1065
01:00:09,390 --> 01:00:09,750
S4: Wow.

1066
01:00:10,030 --> 01:00:14,150
S14: And that takes time. And so for us, it took

1067
01:00:14,190 --> 01:00:18,030
S14: about 18 months. And what did that look like? It

1068
01:00:18,030 --> 01:00:24,350
S14: looked like counseling. It looked like lots of conversations. Where

1069
01:00:24,590 --> 01:00:29,270
S14: there was patience. There was kindness. There was compassion. That

1070
01:00:29,270 --> 01:00:32,690
S14: meant pushing accountability, which meant like if my husband was

1071
01:00:32,690 --> 01:00:35,490
S14: going to be late coming home from somewhere, he would

1072
01:00:35,490 --> 01:00:39,530
S14: call me and say, hey, this is what's going on. Um, I'm,

1073
01:00:39,570 --> 01:00:41,570
S14: you know, this is where I'm going to be. It

1074
01:00:41,570 --> 01:00:46,130
S14: was sharing locations. All of those kind of things. Puts

1075
01:00:46,330 --> 01:00:49,930
S14: the water back in the bathtub. Those are all tablespoons,

1076
01:00:49,930 --> 01:00:55,050
S14: even sometimes quarter cups of water. And it just takes time.

1077
01:00:55,050 --> 01:00:57,210
S14: But it is possible.

1078
01:00:57,530 --> 01:01:00,250
S4: You know, I'm going to throw another analogy at you.

1079
01:01:00,250 --> 01:01:02,290
S4: But a lot of times in marriage it's not the

1080
01:01:02,290 --> 01:01:06,090
S4: big blowout I think of a tire. It's the slow leak.

1081
01:01:06,090 --> 01:01:09,530
S4: And you have people listening who are in marriages where

1082
01:01:09,690 --> 01:01:12,610
S4: maybe there's not been some big issue of infidelity. There's

1083
01:01:12,610 --> 01:01:16,050
S4: not been a big anything. It's just over time. You

1084
01:01:16,050 --> 01:01:18,090
S4: have two people who look at each other and go,

1085
01:01:18,130 --> 01:01:21,810
S4: I don't really know if I love this person anymore.

1086
01:01:22,010 --> 01:01:25,370
S4: And I I'm not even sure that I know them.

1087
01:01:25,610 --> 01:01:28,250
S4: What do you say to people who feel kind of

1088
01:01:28,290 --> 01:01:31,190
S4: quietly hopeless. There's no big something to point to. They

1089
01:01:31,190 --> 01:01:32,230
S4: just don't feel it.

1090
01:01:32,430 --> 01:01:36,990
S14: Yeah, that happens in so many marriages. In fact, it's

1091
01:01:36,990 --> 01:01:39,590
S14: probably one of the main causes of what we call

1092
01:01:39,630 --> 01:01:43,510
S14: silver divorces, which is when people get divorced after being

1093
01:01:43,510 --> 01:01:47,830
S14: married 30, 35, 40 years. And we talk about that

1094
01:01:47,830 --> 01:01:50,630
S14: in our No More Perfect Marriages book, and we call

1095
01:01:50,630 --> 01:01:55,110
S14: them the slow fades. And a slow fade is a

1096
01:01:55,350 --> 01:02:01,590
S14: slow erosion of connection. And what I would say is

1097
01:02:01,830 --> 01:02:05,590
S14: the slow fades can be identified and they can be

1098
01:02:05,590 --> 01:02:09,510
S14: stopped if you can just learn what they are. If

1099
01:02:09,510 --> 01:02:13,110
S14: you can get the help to begin to turn around

1100
01:02:13,110 --> 01:02:17,830
S14: some of the mindset that has contributed to those slow fades.

1101
01:02:17,830 --> 01:02:21,510
S14: And an example of this actually, is that my husband

1102
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:25,630
S14: was experiencing the slow fade of unrealistic expectations. That's one

1103
01:02:25,630 --> 01:02:28,210
S14: of them that we identify in our No More Perfect

1104
01:02:28,210 --> 01:02:31,930
S14: Marriages book, and that slow fade of expectations moved him

1105
01:02:31,930 --> 01:02:41,410
S14: from discontentment to discouragement to disillusionment, to disconnection. And even

1106
01:02:41,410 --> 01:02:44,490
S14: if the affair hadn't happened, so that he was then

1107
01:02:44,490 --> 01:02:48,130
S14: primed for the affair, even if that affair hadn't happened,

1108
01:02:48,170 --> 01:02:51,570
S14: we would have been at a crossroads where he was

1109
01:02:51,570 --> 01:02:58,450
S14: very disconnected because his expectations were unrealistic, and there were

1110
01:02:58,450 --> 01:03:02,490
S14: some other dynamics playing out. I had the slow fade

1111
01:03:02,850 --> 01:03:08,370
S14: of emotional shutdown. I grew up in a buck up family,

1112
01:03:08,690 --> 01:03:11,130
S14: so you just kind of buck up and you just

1113
01:03:11,170 --> 01:03:13,850
S14: kind of put one foot in front of the other.

1114
01:03:13,970 --> 01:03:17,890
S14: But what that did is it kept me emotionally distant

1115
01:03:18,370 --> 01:03:22,650
S14: and that was contributing to our disconnection. So we both

1116
01:03:22,650 --> 01:03:26,750
S14: had areas we needed to work on, and that's ultimately

1117
01:03:26,750 --> 01:03:29,430
S14: what Mark and I love helping couples do is find

1118
01:03:29,430 --> 01:03:33,270
S14: those areas, understand them, and then get to work on

1119
01:03:33,350 --> 01:03:37,350
S14: turning that dynamic around because it can be turned around.

1120
01:03:37,590 --> 01:03:40,430
S4: Jill Savage, I know you're listening and you're going, oh, okay,

1121
01:03:40,470 --> 01:03:43,830
S4: where can I get more? She mentioned a couple of books,

1122
01:03:43,870 --> 01:03:47,550
S4: the No More Perfect Marriage. There's also one for moms.

1123
01:03:47,870 --> 01:03:50,390
S4: I want you to get connected the podcast as well.

1124
01:03:50,390 --> 01:03:56,430
S4: Just text perfect to (800) 555-7898. You'll find lots of resources

1125
01:03:56,430 --> 01:04:02,390
S4: available on her website. Text perfect to (800) 555-7898.

1126
01:04:02,790 --> 01:04:07,350
S1: A basketball mom who's mastered the dad joke. Ali is

1127
01:04:07,350 --> 01:04:11,030
S1: in the crew. It's Karl and crew on Moody Radio.

1128
01:04:11,830 --> 01:04:15,190
S6: You want it? And you got it. It's time right now.

1129
01:04:15,550 --> 01:04:19,070
S1: Making herself laugh no matter who joins her. It's time

1130
01:04:19,070 --> 01:04:22,750
S1: for Ali. Thinks it's funny. Yes.

1131
01:04:23,470 --> 01:04:24,310
S4: Are you excited, Carl?

1132
01:04:24,350 --> 01:04:25,250
S6: Oh, we need it.

1133
01:04:26,530 --> 01:04:31,050
S4: Back for another round of Wednesday. Jokes for you. What

1134
01:04:31,050 --> 01:04:34,530
S4: do you call. Um, well, first of all, do you

1135
01:04:34,530 --> 01:04:37,689
S4: like potatoes? Before I. Before I give you. What's your

1136
01:04:37,690 --> 01:04:41,290
S4: favorite way to see potatoes prepared?

1137
01:04:41,290 --> 01:04:44,850
S6: Oh, fried in lard. Give them to me. Salted.

1138
01:04:45,050 --> 01:04:49,530
S4: Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Like like a diced potato. Like

1139
01:04:49,570 --> 01:04:51,170
S4: you just fry the whole potato.

1140
01:04:51,210 --> 01:04:53,450
S6: No French fries. Slice them up.

1141
01:04:53,490 --> 01:04:53,970
S2: Fry the.

1142
01:04:53,970 --> 01:04:54,770
S3: Whole potato.

1143
01:04:54,810 --> 01:04:57,530
S2: I like the idea of just dropping a whole potato.

1144
01:04:57,890 --> 01:04:59,490
S3: I have a shortcut. This thing.

1145
01:04:59,690 --> 01:05:01,050
S4: What about you, young thunder?

1146
01:05:01,090 --> 01:05:01,290
S3: Yeah.

1147
01:05:01,330 --> 01:05:03,490
S4: French fries. Uh. Super dry. Yeah.

1148
01:05:03,570 --> 01:05:04,210
S16: French fries.

1149
01:05:04,250 --> 01:05:07,930
S2: What kind of French fries? Shoestring. Curly.

1150
01:05:08,090 --> 01:05:08,490
S16: Okay.

1151
01:05:08,890 --> 01:05:11,850
S4: Waffle fries are my favorite. Oh, yeah, but I digress.

1152
01:05:12,010 --> 01:05:15,810
S4: So potatoes actually have different personalities. If you were to

1153
01:05:15,850 --> 01:05:19,890
S4: sit down and talk to three potatoes, you would get

1154
01:05:19,890 --> 01:05:21,890
S4: three totally different personalities.

1155
01:05:22,050 --> 01:05:22,650
S6: And stuff here.

1156
01:05:22,650 --> 01:05:24,830
S4: All you do. I mean, this is stuff you really

1157
01:05:24,830 --> 01:05:27,870
S4: need to know. What do you call a potato that

1158
01:05:27,870 --> 01:05:32,430
S4: has a tendency toward being a little reluctant, a little

1159
01:05:32,430 --> 01:05:36,350
S4: reluctant potato, also known as a hesitate.

1160
01:05:40,670 --> 01:05:42,270
S2: I like hesitating.

1161
01:05:43,550 --> 01:05:44,070
S3: Do you?

1162
01:05:44,190 --> 01:05:45,470
S2: I do, I really do.

1163
01:05:45,510 --> 01:05:47,150
S3: Oh, come on, that's.

1164
01:05:48,430 --> 01:05:49,190
S2: Incapable of.

1165
01:05:49,190 --> 01:05:57,510
S3: Liking it. Hesitate. Oh, okay. Glad Karl enjoyed that reluctant potato.

1166
01:05:57,750 --> 01:05:58,990
S4: Karl, a little hesitate.

1167
01:05:59,270 --> 01:06:00,990
S6: Come on. That's outstanding.

1168
01:06:01,030 --> 01:06:01,630
S3: It is good.

1169
01:06:01,670 --> 01:06:04,910
S4: Next. Next up, a little a little story. Time for you.

1170
01:06:04,950 --> 01:06:08,030
S4: I took some vacation days, and I. I went in

1171
01:06:08,070 --> 01:06:11,270
S4: for a deep tissue massage at one of those fancy spas,

1172
01:06:11,310 --> 01:06:14,310
S4: you know, like, try to get some of that neck

1173
01:06:14,310 --> 01:06:17,870
S4: and shoulder tension out because, man, a lot of times

1174
01:06:17,870 --> 01:06:21,610
S4: sitting behind a mic neck, shoulder muscles get a little tight. So, I,

1175
01:06:21,650 --> 01:06:23,490
S4: you know, I asked for the person with like real

1176
01:06:23,490 --> 01:06:26,330
S4: strong hands because I want like a really get in

1177
01:06:26,370 --> 01:06:28,850
S4: there and break up some of that tension. Yeah. So

1178
01:06:28,850 --> 01:06:30,690
S4: I was a little surprised when the first thing they

1179
01:06:30,690 --> 01:06:34,450
S4: did was sprinkle some cocoa powder on my shoulders. It's like,

1180
01:06:34,650 --> 01:06:38,210
S4: this is a little strange. And then they come at

1181
01:06:38,210 --> 01:06:39,210
S4: me with cheese.

1182
01:06:39,690 --> 01:06:40,010
S3: Wow.

1183
01:06:40,050 --> 01:06:44,490
S4: Mascarpone cheese. And I was really shocked. And then they

1184
01:06:44,490 --> 01:06:46,730
S4: offered me a shot of espresso in the middle of

1185
01:06:46,730 --> 01:06:49,690
S4: the massage. I didn't realize it was a tiramisu.

1186
01:06:56,010 --> 01:06:56,930
S2: That's crazy.

1187
01:06:58,010 --> 01:06:59,290
S4: That was a little crazy.

1188
01:06:59,330 --> 01:07:00,450
S3: Oh, that's a.

1189
01:07:00,450 --> 01:07:00,730
S4: Little.

1190
01:07:00,730 --> 01:07:01,050
S3: Crazy.

1191
01:07:01,370 --> 01:07:02,490
S6: Around Mccready's barn.

1192
01:07:02,650 --> 01:07:04,010
S3: But you know what? She got there.

1193
01:07:04,050 --> 01:07:06,770
S4: I got there. I that one I thought was funny

1194
01:07:06,770 --> 01:07:09,210
S4: because it's a little out of the box. Text jokes

1195
01:07:09,210 --> 01:07:14,210
S4: to 805, five five, 78, 98. Go around Mccready's barn.

1196
01:07:14,210 --> 01:07:20,169
S4: It's worth it. Text jokes to 800 555 7898. Just

1197
01:07:20,170 --> 01:07:21,130
S4: text jokes.