1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 S1: Hi friends. Thanks so much for downloading this podcast, and 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,000 S1: I hope truly that you will hear something that will encourage, edify, equip, 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,360 S1: and enlighten you to get out there and influence and 4 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,040 S1: occupy until he comes. And on that note, may I 5 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,080 S1: take just a few moments here to describe this month's 6 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,920 S1: truth tool? It's by pastor Jack Hibbs. He's written the 7 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,040 S1: book called Called to Take a Bold Stand. I absolutely 8 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,520 S1: love this book because it reminds us that in Christ 9 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,480 S1: all things pass away. All things become new, that we 10 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,240 S1: are standing for his truth, that we have a new nature. 11 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,080 S1: Because of him, we should be living boldly. But far 12 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,120 S1: too often we retreat out of fear from cultural blowback. 13 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,600 S1: So I want to encourage all of us to just 14 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,800 S1: stand up for Christ, to be unashamed of who we 15 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,120 S1: are in him, and to go into a culture that's 16 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,600 S1: telling us in no uncertain terms. They're lost and they're hurting. 17 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,760 S1: So if you'd like a copy of Pastor Hibbs new 18 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,400 S1: book called Call to Take a Bold Stand, just give 19 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,720 S1: a gift of any amount by calling eight, seven, seven. 20 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,680 S1: Janet 58. We are listener supported radio, and this is 21 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,640 S1: my way of saying thank you. So that number again 22 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,310 S1: is 877 Janet 58. Or you can go online in 23 00:00:59,350 --> 00:01:02,110 S1: the market with Janet dot o r g. Go to 24 00:01:02,150 --> 00:01:04,190 S1: the bottom of the page. There's the cover of Pastor 25 00:01:04,190 --> 00:01:06,670 S1: Jack's book. Click it on, give a gift and you'll 26 00:01:06,670 --> 00:01:08,190 S1: be good to go. And we'll send you a copy 27 00:01:08,190 --> 00:01:10,030 S1: as a way of saying thank you. Don't forget, you 28 00:01:10,030 --> 00:01:12,550 S1: can also become a partial partner. Those are people who 29 00:01:12,550 --> 00:01:15,190 S1: give every single month at a level of their own choosing. 30 00:01:15,230 --> 00:01:17,190 S1: My way of saying thank you to the partial partners 31 00:01:17,190 --> 00:01:18,750 S1: is to make sure you get a copy of each 32 00:01:18,790 --> 00:01:21,630 S1: month's truth tool, and you get our weekly newsletter, which 33 00:01:21,670 --> 00:01:24,270 S1: includes some of my writing and an audio piece only 34 00:01:24,270 --> 00:01:26,789 S1: for my partial partners. So whether it's a one time 35 00:01:26,790 --> 00:01:28,630 S1: gift or you want to be an ongoing giver and 36 00:01:28,630 --> 00:01:30,910 S1: become a partial partner, that's your call. But I want 37 00:01:30,950 --> 00:01:34,070 S1: to thank you in advance. Eight seven, seven Janet 58. 38 00:01:34,069 --> 00:01:37,310 S1: Or online at In the Market with Janet Parshall. Now 39 00:01:37,310 --> 00:01:46,350 S1: please enjoy the broadcast. Hi friends, this is Janet Partial. 40 00:01:46,350 --> 00:01:48,430 S1: Thanks so much for choosing to spend the next hour 41 00:01:48,430 --> 00:01:51,630 S1: with us. Today's program is prerecorded so our phone lines 42 00:01:51,630 --> 00:01:53,750 S1: are not open. But thanks so much for being with 43 00:01:53,750 --> 00:01:55,430 S1: us and enjoy the broadcast. 44 00:01:55,910 --> 00:01:57,460 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 45 00:01:57,780 --> 00:01:59,980 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 46 00:02:00,220 --> 00:02:02,220 S4: Americans worshiping government over God. 47 00:02:02,540 --> 00:02:05,900 S5: Extremely rare safety move by a 17 years. 48 00:02:05,900 --> 00:02:08,020 S6: The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated. 49 00:02:23,700 --> 00:02:27,380 S1: Hi friends. Welcome to. In the market with Janet Parshall trauma. 50 00:02:27,940 --> 00:02:30,140 S1: There's a word that has a whole different meaning if 51 00:02:30,139 --> 00:02:33,340 S1: you've experienced it yourself or if someone you love is 52 00:02:33,340 --> 00:02:36,339 S1: struggling right now as a result of trauma in the life. 53 00:02:36,340 --> 00:02:38,220 S1: And then there's a whole bunch of you listening to 54 00:02:38,220 --> 00:02:40,940 S1: this as well, who are in complete and total denial 55 00:02:40,940 --> 00:02:44,139 S1: and don't even recognize that trauma has put you in 56 00:02:44,139 --> 00:02:46,620 S1: a place you're at. Today, we're going to kick open 57 00:02:46,620 --> 00:02:48,620 S1: the front door, lift the shades, and put some sunlight 58 00:02:48,660 --> 00:02:52,700 S1: on this topic. First person witness most powerful thing in 59 00:02:52,700 --> 00:02:54,740 S1: the world. If you're a lawyer, that's who you want 60 00:02:54,780 --> 00:02:57,000 S1: as a personal eyewitness, to be able to come and 61 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,079 S1: testify to. Convince the jury of the reality of what 62 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,480 S1: you've seen and known and heard. And that's exactly the 63 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,440 S1: case with our guest today, Doctor Elizabeth Stevens. She joins 64 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,040 S1: us today as the author of Unshackled Finding God's Freedom 65 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,639 S1: from Trauma. That would make perfect sense when you realize 66 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,200 S1: that Doctor Stevens is not only a retired U.S. Air 67 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,880 S1: Force major, and we thank her so for her service 68 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:20,280 S1: to our country and not just her, by the way, 69 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,640 S1: but her family. She comes from a rich military family 70 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,200 S1: and rich in history, by the way, but she's also 71 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,600 S1: a board certified psychiatrist. And that would mean that she 72 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,280 S1: could discuss this until the cows come home from an 73 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,680 S1: academic vantage point. And she can and does in unshackled. 74 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,520 S1: But far more powerful is it's not just the ethos, 75 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,160 S1: it is the pathos she brings to this conversation because 76 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,640 S1: she herself had a TBI, a traumatic brain injury. And 77 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:49,680 S1: for those of us who have been around someone who 78 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,800 S1: has struggled with this, you know, it is a slow 79 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,670 S1: train going, and there are so many arguments we have 80 00:03:56,670 --> 00:03:58,950 S1: inside our own head when something like this is going 81 00:03:58,950 --> 00:04:01,470 S1: on and you wonder, God, will I ever be well again? 82 00:04:01,470 --> 00:04:03,590 S1: In fact, more to the point, God, where are you? 83 00:04:03,590 --> 00:04:05,550 S1: In the midst of all of this? Let me give 84 00:04:05,550 --> 00:04:08,070 S1: you the official, if I can, introduction for Doctor Stevens, 85 00:04:08,070 --> 00:04:11,030 S1: retired US Air Force major. As I noted before, board 86 00:04:11,030 --> 00:04:14,350 S1: certified psychiatrist grew up in Indianapolis. Oh, Aurora just went 87 00:04:14,350 --> 00:04:16,830 S1: up from our Indy listeners. She served in the Air 88 00:04:16,830 --> 00:04:20,150 S1: Force for ten years, reaching the rank of major before 89 00:04:20,150 --> 00:04:23,790 S1: retiring due to her own traumatic brain injury and subsequent 90 00:04:23,790 --> 00:04:27,270 S1: post-traumatic stress disorder. After leaving the Air Force, she developed 91 00:04:27,270 --> 00:04:32,150 S1: a nonprofit called Advancing Warriors International. She's currently serving as 92 00:04:32,150 --> 00:04:35,070 S1: its executive director. And if you're interested and we've got 93 00:04:35,070 --> 00:04:38,390 S1: more information on Advancing Warriors International, we'll put that up 94 00:04:38,390 --> 00:04:41,349 S1: on our website as well. It helps vets, military members 95 00:04:41,350 --> 00:04:45,630 S1: and emergency responders grow and heal after experiencing trauma. So 96 00:04:45,630 --> 00:04:48,750 S1: we're going to talk about unshackling from trauma and what 97 00:04:48,750 --> 00:04:51,150 S1: it is. Ellie, thank you so very much. By the way, 98 00:04:51,350 --> 00:04:53,700 S1: Doctor Stevens has given me permission to refer to her 99 00:04:53,740 --> 00:04:57,099 S1: that way. So please don't think I'm being disrespectful or cavalier. 100 00:04:57,420 --> 00:05:00,020 S1: I'm grateful for the gift of your time. I can't 101 00:05:00,020 --> 00:05:02,500 S1: give it back. I'm absolutely thrilled that you've written a 102 00:05:02,500 --> 00:05:05,380 S1: book so that you've offered keen insight to those who 103 00:05:05,380 --> 00:05:08,099 S1: struggle and feel that they are isolated and abandoned in 104 00:05:08,100 --> 00:05:10,260 S1: this struggle. But I also want to thank you for 105 00:05:10,260 --> 00:05:13,580 S1: the courage to be transparent with your own struggles in 106 00:05:13,580 --> 00:05:16,900 S1: this particular area, because always the takeaway, it seems to me, 107 00:05:17,140 --> 00:05:18,980 S1: is if you can do it, I can do it. 108 00:05:19,020 --> 00:05:21,099 S1: If she had the same feelings that I do, it's okay. 109 00:05:21,140 --> 00:05:22,820 S1: I just need to put one foot in front of 110 00:05:22,820 --> 00:05:25,060 S1: the other and press on. So if I may, I 111 00:05:25,060 --> 00:05:28,060 S1: think it would be terribly appropriate for us to start 112 00:05:28,100 --> 00:05:30,380 S1: exactly what you do in the book, which is with 113 00:05:30,380 --> 00:05:33,740 S1: your fall mountain climbing in Colorado. Anybody who's been out 114 00:05:33,740 --> 00:05:36,620 S1: there knows how spectacular the scenery is. And if you 115 00:05:36,620 --> 00:05:38,860 S1: have any kind of an itching to go out and hike, 116 00:05:38,860 --> 00:05:42,860 S1: Colorado offers you untold opportunities. Tell me about that day. 117 00:05:43,620 --> 00:05:47,060 S7: I moved to Colorado to do a Child and Adolescent 118 00:05:47,060 --> 00:05:51,490 S7: Psychiatry fellowship And one of my main goals when I 119 00:05:51,490 --> 00:05:55,250 S7: moved was to hike all the 14,000 foot peaks in Colorado. 120 00:05:55,930 --> 00:05:59,050 S7: And there are 58 of them. And so my goal 121 00:05:59,050 --> 00:06:02,290 S7: was to do them within the first year. And I 122 00:06:02,330 --> 00:06:06,490 S7: had hiked about at least 30 of them. And Longs 123 00:06:06,490 --> 00:06:10,050 S7: Peak was the hike prior to my fall. And so 124 00:06:10,290 --> 00:06:15,570 S7: it was another day, another peak. And I had done 125 00:06:15,570 --> 00:06:18,370 S7: more dangerous stuff than that one. And it was a 126 00:06:18,370 --> 00:06:23,930 S7: freak accident where my poles got stuck underneath boulders at 127 00:06:23,930 --> 00:06:28,010 S7: the same time, and I couldn't catch myself because my, 128 00:06:28,130 --> 00:06:30,850 S7: my hands were in the the straps of the poles. 129 00:06:31,010 --> 00:06:33,850 S7: I catapulted head first into the boulder in front of 130 00:06:33,850 --> 00:06:38,450 S7: me and, um, lost consciousness when I came to. I 131 00:06:38,450 --> 00:06:40,450 S7: thought I was blind, I thought I had lost all 132 00:06:40,450 --> 00:06:44,730 S7: my teeth and it was a life, definitely a life 133 00:06:44,770 --> 00:06:46,330 S7: threatening situation for me. 134 00:06:46,770 --> 00:06:49,960 S1: Ellie, I was shocked. I just thought it just had 135 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,000 S1: to be God's mercy that you were told that some 136 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,680 S1: of the rescue people were tied up in a car 137 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,960 S1: accident so that they couldn't get you down. You had 138 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,279 S1: to get yourself down. You've just experienced a traumatic brain 139 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,719 S1: injury and you have to finish this climb down. Looking 140 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,279 S1: back on that, are you at all cognizant of from 141 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,160 S1: where you got that strength or how you were able 142 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:09,880 S1: to do that? 143 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,920 S7: Well, I know it was definitely God's mercy. I had 144 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,720 S7: severe whiplash and if I had fallen again, I probably 145 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,640 S7: wouldn't be here today. And it was a four mile 146 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,520 S7: hike out. I, I don't really remember too much of it. Um, 147 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,600 S7: but it is by the mercy of God. 148 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,600 S1: That you managed to get down. You get in the 149 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,760 S1: emergency room. And as often happens when trauma is associated 150 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,800 S1: with an injury, you were not even aware at the 151 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,880 S1: threshold exactly how bad this is or how bad it's 152 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:42,840 S1: going to be, or what you're going to have to 153 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:44,680 S1: deal with. What were some of the initial things you 154 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:46,660 S1: were told once you were finally in hospital. 155 00:07:48,380 --> 00:07:50,620 S7: What they did, they just wanted to rule out an 156 00:07:50,620 --> 00:07:55,180 S7: immediate acute issue. So they ruled out any brain bleeding 157 00:07:55,540 --> 00:07:58,980 S7: and they sent me home. But they had to. Luckily, 158 00:07:58,980 --> 00:08:02,300 S7: the E.R. physician had been trained in plastic surgery. And 159 00:08:02,300 --> 00:08:05,660 S7: so he stitched me up, stitched my, um, my head 160 00:08:05,660 --> 00:08:09,180 S7: up above my left eyebrow and, and then sent me 161 00:08:09,180 --> 00:08:11,940 S7: on my way. And I was thinking about going back 162 00:08:11,940 --> 00:08:16,260 S7: to work, hiking another peak. I had no idea what 163 00:08:16,300 --> 00:08:21,060 S7: was to come. I didn't realize the extent of my injuries. 164 00:08:21,540 --> 00:08:23,940 S1: And that's let me just see if I can, um, 165 00:08:23,940 --> 00:08:25,820 S1: just get our friends to understand a little bit as 166 00:08:25,860 --> 00:08:28,420 S1: we're coming up to a break. You know, it's interesting 167 00:08:28,420 --> 00:08:30,140 S1: and I'm sure that this is not who you are, 168 00:08:30,140 --> 00:08:32,300 S1: but so often those who are your peers in this 169 00:08:32,300 --> 00:08:36,900 S1: particular discipline of medicine, very often in psychiatry, we treat behavior. 170 00:08:36,900 --> 00:08:39,340 S1: We don't treat the organ. And yet here is this 171 00:08:39,340 --> 00:08:42,459 S1: mystery called the brain. We talk about being fearfully and 172 00:08:42,460 --> 00:08:45,890 S1: wonderfully made. We know that scientists and people involved in 173 00:08:45,890 --> 00:08:48,370 S1: medicine are learning more and more and more about the 174 00:08:48,370 --> 00:08:50,730 S1: brain that some things we can predict, other things are 175 00:08:50,730 --> 00:08:54,090 S1: wildly unpredictable. So when we come back, let me ask 176 00:08:54,090 --> 00:08:56,569 S1: you about what you began to discover about your brain. 177 00:08:56,570 --> 00:08:58,969 S1: You have this set of sutures above your eyes and 178 00:08:58,970 --> 00:09:01,250 S1: you're thinking, hey, life is great. Can we go back 179 00:09:01,250 --> 00:09:02,690 S1: to normal? I had a rough day, but that's the 180 00:09:02,690 --> 00:09:05,050 S1: end of it. When did you realize that there were 181 00:09:05,050 --> 00:09:07,970 S1: some residuals that were going to take a while to address? 182 00:09:08,090 --> 00:09:11,770 S1: Doctor Elizabeth Stevens is with us, author of the book unshackled. 183 00:09:11,770 --> 00:09:35,689 S1: Great title, Finding Freedom from Trauma. Back after this. Are 184 00:09:35,690 --> 00:09:38,290 S1: you living with a biblically based, passionate faith, or are 185 00:09:38,290 --> 00:09:40,890 S1: you pulling back from letting your light shine? That's why 186 00:09:40,890 --> 00:09:43,040 S1: I've chosen Cole to take a bold stand as this 187 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,719 S1: month's truth tool learn how to influence the culture for 188 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,360 S1: Christ in a transformative way. As for your copy of 189 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,120 S1: call to take a bold stand when you give a 190 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,920 S1: gift of any amount to in the market, call 877. 191 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,480 S1: Janet 58. That's 877. Janet 58. Or go to in 192 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:01,800 S1: the market with Janet dot o r g. We are 193 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:06,240 S1: visiting with Doctor Elizabeth Stevens, retired US Air Force major. Again, 194 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,480 S1: we thank her for our service to our country board 195 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,800 S1: certified psychiatrist. God certainly knew what he was doing when 196 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,560 S1: he hard wired her, didn't he? And a trauma survivor. 197 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:16,520 S1: She joins us today as the author of the book 198 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,640 S1: Unshackled Finding God's Freedom from Trauma. And we're talking about 199 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,280 S1: her goal to hike all of these different peaks in Colorado, 200 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,600 S1: this traumatic brain injury where she falls, a freak accident, 201 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:32,040 S1: falls down, gets up in the air, sutures above the eye, 202 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,160 S1: goes home thinking that life is going to go back 203 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,880 S1: to normal. But the thing about this, this mystery of 204 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,000 S1: the brain, and for all that we know, I just 205 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,590 S1: stand in awe about what we don't know. My first 206 00:10:42,590 --> 00:10:44,150 S1: thought is, after you have an injury like that, how 207 00:10:44,150 --> 00:10:45,710 S1: do you know that the brain's not going to swell? 208 00:10:45,750 --> 00:10:48,870 S1: Or you have an unidentified at that moment, internal bleed, 209 00:10:48,990 --> 00:10:52,469 S1: or whether or not there has been some cognitive impact 210 00:10:52,470 --> 00:10:56,190 S1: because of the fall, things start to manifest themselves in 211 00:10:56,190 --> 00:10:57,950 S1: your life. Talk to me about that. 212 00:10:59,150 --> 00:11:03,390 S7: Yeah. So Monday, so it happened on Saturday and Monday 213 00:11:03,390 --> 00:11:05,550 S7: I was about to go back to work. I pretty 214 00:11:05,550 --> 00:11:08,430 S7: much slept all weekend and get up to go to 215 00:11:08,470 --> 00:11:11,990 S7: work on Monday. And I can't stop throwing up. And 216 00:11:11,990 --> 00:11:16,790 S7: so I, uh, somebody takes me to the ER and 217 00:11:17,030 --> 00:11:21,990 S7: the er doctor said, this is Post-concussive syndrome. You need 218 00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:25,510 S7: to go to your primary care and um but I 219 00:11:25,510 --> 00:11:28,110 S7: at least needed something for the nausea to keep to 220 00:11:28,150 --> 00:11:31,790 S7: keep food down. Um, and so he sent me to 221 00:11:31,790 --> 00:11:34,510 S7: my primary care and my primary care was a air 222 00:11:34,510 --> 00:11:37,830 S7: Force physician, and he told me to go home to 223 00:11:37,870 --> 00:11:40,540 S7: have brain rest for at least a month. And then 224 00:11:40,540 --> 00:11:45,300 S7: he would reassess me. And meanwhile, my mom, uh, was, uh, 225 00:11:45,300 --> 00:11:48,140 S7: in the process of flying in town to help take 226 00:11:48,140 --> 00:11:51,460 S7: care of me, but I, again, I was minimizing everything. 227 00:11:51,700 --> 00:11:54,220 S7: This isn't a big deal. I should be able to 228 00:11:54,700 --> 00:11:57,300 S7: get back to work at least this next month. Um, 229 00:11:57,340 --> 00:12:03,260 S7: after being ordered on brain rest, which means no electronics. Um, no, 230 00:12:03,420 --> 00:12:07,820 S7: not taxing your brain at all. And, um, it was, 231 00:12:08,179 --> 00:12:11,579 S7: it wasn't very difficult for me to abide by those 232 00:12:11,580 --> 00:12:14,939 S7: rules because every time I looked at a screen, every 233 00:12:14,980 --> 00:12:18,500 S7: time I even tried to have to have a sentence 234 00:12:18,540 --> 00:12:22,100 S7: or figure out what the what words meant. I was 235 00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:24,780 S7: slurring my speech. It was just so exhausting and I 236 00:12:24,780 --> 00:12:27,620 S7: would have to go to bed. So the first month 237 00:12:28,179 --> 00:12:32,620 S7: I was probably awake for 1 to 2 hours a day. 238 00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:35,900 S7: So I don't really hardly remember the first month. 239 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,400 S1: But thanks be to God, it was providing that rest 240 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,840 S1: that you so deeply needed for your brain, right? But 241 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,760 S1: your mom had a kind of epiphany, if I can 242 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,200 S1: put it that way, because during some of the testing 243 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,040 S1: to try to assess the trauma, you were told the 244 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,600 S1: story about a little boy throwing rocks. And after the 245 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,760 S1: story was over, you were told to say how many 246 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,760 S1: rocks the little boy had thrown into this pond. And 247 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,400 S1: for the life of you, you couldn't call it up. 248 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,240 S1: That's when your mom knew. Uh oh, this is going 249 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,960 S1: to take some time. So the you're in this one 250 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,320 S1: month where you're not even fully aware because you're awake 251 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,120 S1: 1 to 2 times. You're getting the necessary sleep. That's great. 252 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,040 S1: But my guess is that you're a high achiever, not 253 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,840 S1: just an achiever. You go back for the assessment. You're thinking, okay, 254 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,679 S1: I've had the brain rest. It's all good. What happens? Oh, 255 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:20,360 S1: and by the way, you'd love to get your nose 256 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,680 S1: repaired along the way, but there's a problem there as well. 257 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:28,720 S7: Right? So my nose I, I ended up it was 258 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,360 S7: it was broken. I've had it broken multiple times throughout 259 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,510 S7: my life with basketball, but it was broken to the 260 00:13:35,510 --> 00:13:38,030 S7: point where there was a quarter sized hole in my 261 00:13:38,030 --> 00:13:43,190 S7: septum that the surgeon didn't find until after, uh, the 262 00:13:43,190 --> 00:13:45,670 S7: the first surgery. And so he goes in to repair 263 00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:48,830 S7: it and he can't repair it because he has to 264 00:13:48,870 --> 00:13:51,510 S7: replace the cartilage first, and he doesn't have enough time 265 00:13:51,510 --> 00:13:55,150 S7: to do that within surgery. So, uh, I don't tolerate 266 00:13:55,150 --> 00:14:00,070 S7: the anesthesia. Well, again, throwing up and, um, and then 267 00:14:00,070 --> 00:14:04,270 S7: he ends up rescheduling me a month later. So the 268 00:14:04,309 --> 00:14:08,030 S7: anesthesia really sets me back in my brain healing. And 269 00:14:08,030 --> 00:14:11,949 S7: then I have to go into another surgery with more anesthesia, 270 00:14:12,390 --> 00:14:13,829 S7: which sets me back again. 271 00:14:14,990 --> 00:14:17,910 S1: Wow. It's hardly one step forward and it's a whole 272 00:14:17,910 --> 00:14:21,790 S1: bunch of steps back. How are you dealing with this emotionally? 273 00:14:21,790 --> 00:14:23,390 S1: And I'll ask you also how you were dealing with 274 00:14:23,390 --> 00:14:27,310 S1: this spiritually, but emotionally, these setbacks are not at all 275 00:14:27,430 --> 00:14:29,790 S1: putting you where you think you should be. It's taking 276 00:14:29,790 --> 00:14:31,790 S1: you in the wrong direction. How do you cope? 277 00:14:33,180 --> 00:14:36,980 S7: Right. Well, initially it was it was very strange because 278 00:14:36,980 --> 00:14:41,700 S7: I've always been a high achiever and I worry about everything. 279 00:14:42,220 --> 00:14:46,860 S7: Worry about making things, doing things perfectly and getting the 280 00:14:46,860 --> 00:14:51,780 S7: job done. And right after my brain injury, it was 281 00:14:51,780 --> 00:14:55,660 S7: almost this carefree feeling that I had. Like, everything's going 282 00:14:55,700 --> 00:15:01,780 S7: to be okay. God will work things out. And I 283 00:15:01,980 --> 00:15:06,820 S7: my whole mentality and emotions shifted about a month or 284 00:15:06,820 --> 00:15:10,900 S7: so after the brain injury. And looking back, I know why. 285 00:15:11,660 --> 00:15:14,620 S7: But my mom didn't know why I. I was very 286 00:15:14,620 --> 00:15:17,220 S7: carefree at peace. And then all of a sudden I 287 00:15:17,220 --> 00:15:23,100 S7: became extremely irritable and angry. And that was because within 288 00:15:23,180 --> 00:15:27,340 S7: that month or while I was trying to heal, um, 289 00:15:27,380 --> 00:15:33,970 S7: I was raped. And so that actually put a huge um. 290 00:15:34,010 --> 00:15:36,690 S7: It was a huge impact to me to. Wear my 291 00:15:36,690 --> 00:15:39,290 S7: brain was at a point where it couldn't process that 292 00:15:39,290 --> 00:15:43,130 S7: trauma because it was trying to heal and get better 293 00:15:43,450 --> 00:15:45,890 S7: and I couldn't my, my brain couldn't afford to deal 294 00:15:45,890 --> 00:15:47,570 S7: with another trauma at the same time. 295 00:15:48,130 --> 00:15:51,530 S1: Wow. Wow. So to help our friends understand and you 296 00:15:51,530 --> 00:15:54,250 S1: in particular, Ellie, when you had that second trauma and 297 00:15:54,250 --> 00:15:56,970 S1: you don't even have the processing capability because you're still 298 00:15:56,970 --> 00:16:00,850 S1: working on the first trauma, what happens? Is it complete denial? 299 00:16:00,890 --> 00:16:02,810 S1: Put it in a box, lock it shut, put it 300 00:16:02,810 --> 00:16:05,290 S1: on a shelf. Ignore it completely deny it. 301 00:16:06,490 --> 00:16:12,730 S7: So I, I denied it completely, but deep down I 302 00:16:12,770 --> 00:16:16,930 S7: blamed myself. So I didn't call it for what it 303 00:16:16,930 --> 00:16:21,770 S7: was and what I what I saw that happened. I 304 00:16:21,770 --> 00:16:24,890 S7: was like, well, it was my fault. I allowed this 305 00:16:24,890 --> 00:16:29,290 S7: to happen. This person was in my life and I 306 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,760 S7: I blame myself. And so I started to have almost 307 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:38,880 S7: an intense hatred for myself that I didn't deserve to live, that, uh, 308 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,440 S7: it was just the darkness started creeping in more and 309 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,160 S7: more and more. And it came out on my mom 310 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,600 S7: with my mood swings and she didn't know what was 311 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:53,200 S7: going on because I didn't tell her. And, um, I, 312 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,840 S7: I didn't recognize it for what it was until about 313 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,160 S7: two and a half years later. 314 00:16:58,720 --> 00:16:59,080 S5: Wow. 315 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,120 S1: Wow. Doctor Elizabeth Stephens is with us. She is the 316 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,280 S1: author of the book Unshackled Finding God's Freedom from Trauma. 317 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,840 S1: Praise God that he raises up courageous people like Doctor 318 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,320 S1: Stevens who are willing to be transparent and open about 319 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,520 S1: their struggle, and a reminder that God is with us 320 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,000 S1: in the midst of our pain. And that's also a 321 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,760 S1: part of Doctor Stevens's story. We've got so much more 322 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,600 S1: to cover in this absolutely gripping and so timely book, 323 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:42,939 S1: unshackled back after this. We have the privilege of visiting 324 00:17:42,940 --> 00:17:46,460 S1: with Doctor Elizabeth Stevens, retired U.S. Air Force Major board 325 00:17:46,460 --> 00:17:51,300 S1: certified psychiatrist, trauma survivor, and, by the way, the executive 326 00:17:51,300 --> 00:17:56,139 S1: director of Advancing Warriors International. They help veterans, military members, 327 00:17:56,140 --> 00:18:00,500 S1: and emergency responders grow and heal from experiencing trauma. And 328 00:18:00,500 --> 00:18:03,380 S1: there are so many people who experience trauma and have 329 00:18:03,380 --> 00:18:05,820 S1: really never dealt with it, don't even recognize that as 330 00:18:05,820 --> 00:18:08,780 S1: the problem in their life. Ellie has written a wonderful 331 00:18:08,780 --> 00:18:11,940 S1: book called unshackled. It is her story, and she offers 332 00:18:11,940 --> 00:18:14,739 S1: so much by way of healing, getting us on the 333 00:18:14,740 --> 00:18:16,939 S1: path of healing and wellness after trauma. The book is 334 00:18:16,940 --> 00:18:20,899 S1: called Unshackled Finding God's Freedom from Trauma. Ellie, picking up 335 00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:23,139 S1: on where you were with your story. You talk about 336 00:18:23,140 --> 00:18:28,970 S1: overcoming several barriers to healing, psychological barriers, spiritual barriers, relational, 337 00:18:28,970 --> 00:18:32,250 S1: societal and physical barriers to healing. I'd love to break 338 00:18:32,250 --> 00:18:35,250 S1: some of these down, particularly as you experience this while 339 00:18:35,250 --> 00:18:38,130 S1: you were going through your own healing out of trauma. 340 00:18:38,170 --> 00:18:41,370 S1: You know, it's interesting, we talk about psychological barriers to healing. 341 00:18:41,369 --> 00:18:44,810 S1: So the psyche has been wounded in trauma, whether it's 342 00:18:44,810 --> 00:18:49,369 S1: an assault, whether it's an accident, whether it's military, whether 343 00:18:49,369 --> 00:18:51,929 S1: it's fill in the blank, whatever brings trauma. And I'm 344 00:18:51,930 --> 00:18:54,330 S1: so glad. By the way, that I know immediately one 345 00:18:54,330 --> 00:18:56,530 S1: of the fruits of our conversation is people have far 346 00:18:56,530 --> 00:18:59,889 S1: too often associated PTSD with the battlefield, and yet it 347 00:18:59,890 --> 00:19:01,850 S1: doesn't have to be the battlefield at all. Yes, it 348 00:19:01,850 --> 00:19:04,090 S1: can be found there, but it can be found in 349 00:19:04,090 --> 00:19:06,129 S1: a myriad of other places as well. So this is 350 00:19:06,130 --> 00:19:08,730 S1: helping us to understand, if you will, the nature of trauma. 351 00:19:08,850 --> 00:19:10,850 S1: So when the psyche has been wounded, it seems to 352 00:19:10,890 --> 00:19:15,570 S1: me that the barrier psychologically have to be numerous. If 353 00:19:15,570 --> 00:19:17,530 S1: you help us identify some of those and how do 354 00:19:17,530 --> 00:19:18,609 S1: we overcome them? 355 00:19:19,890 --> 00:19:25,240 S7: Yes. For for trauma. Fear is a major motivator for 356 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:30,000 S7: a lot of symptoms with anxiety and, and irritability and anger. And, 357 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,080 S7: and so I experienced a lot of fear and, and 358 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:38,760 S7: avoidance where I wanted to avoid having another trauma. Um, 359 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,560 S7: I had a lot of anxiety. I had nightmares, um, 360 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,240 S7: I had what's called dissociation where you just kind of, 361 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,240 S7: it's like an out of body thing. But a lot 362 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,320 S7: of the symptoms that I was struggling with, I associated 363 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:58,119 S7: solely to my TBI and I, I would because denial 364 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,160 S7: is so strong and I didn't realize how strong it 365 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:06,520 S7: was and with human beings that until I experienced it myself, 366 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,560 S7: where I was in utter denial that that trauma even 367 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,120 S7: happened and that I had PTSD and I wasn't diagnosed 368 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,440 S7: for until two and a half years later. And that 369 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:22,550 S7: was after at least three full blown psychological testings. Wow. 370 00:20:22,590 --> 00:20:27,430 S7: And so it's just how, how powerful, um, avoidance is 371 00:20:27,470 --> 00:20:31,270 S7: and denial of, of really the fear of going through 372 00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:32,710 S7: and processing the trauma. 373 00:20:33,150 --> 00:20:35,950 S1: Yeah. But that speaks, it seems to me, again, to 374 00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:39,230 S1: the miraculous way in which God makes us, because I 375 00:20:39,230 --> 00:20:42,389 S1: think it's all those self-protective things that he puts in. 376 00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:45,070 S1: So we think it, but it's in overdrive. It's in 377 00:20:45,070 --> 00:20:48,270 S1: hyperdrive here. So if you just deny, if you, um, 378 00:20:48,310 --> 00:20:50,270 S1: put into a box those other things that you don't 379 00:20:50,270 --> 00:20:52,190 S1: want to have to deal with, it's all a form 380 00:20:52,190 --> 00:20:56,109 S1: of surviving. But sometimes, if overused, as was the case 381 00:20:56,109 --> 00:20:58,750 S1: with you for taking almost three years before this was 382 00:20:58,750 --> 00:21:01,950 S1: finally brought to light, it can backfire on us. How 383 00:21:01,950 --> 00:21:04,470 S1: does one begin to recognize that they have. In fact, 384 00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:06,230 S1: I should back this up before I even talk about 385 00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:09,830 S1: recognizing the psychological traumas or barriers. Rather, how does one 386 00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:12,070 S1: begin to recognize that they might be in trauma? You're 387 00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:14,990 S1: talking to people all across the United States right now, 388 00:21:15,230 --> 00:21:17,870 S1: a lot of whom I'm guessing don't even understand that 389 00:21:17,869 --> 00:21:20,980 S1: what they're dealing with is trauma. Everybody has trauma. It's 390 00:21:20,980 --> 00:21:23,460 S1: either a capital T or a small T, but this 391 00:21:23,460 --> 00:21:25,940 S1: side of Eden and that side of glory, we deal 392 00:21:25,940 --> 00:21:28,220 S1: with trauma. So help us to recognize it. 393 00:21:29,619 --> 00:21:33,659 S7: I think it first comes out, or at least other 394 00:21:33,660 --> 00:21:38,580 S7: people see it first within relationships. So close relationships where 395 00:21:38,580 --> 00:21:45,380 S7: there's there's anger, there's defensiveness, there's irritability, there's there's arguments. And, 396 00:21:46,420 --> 00:21:50,660 S7: and really the other people are the first to recognize 397 00:21:50,980 --> 00:21:55,260 S7: there's a problem or there's a change. And so I've, 398 00:21:55,260 --> 00:21:59,540 S7: I have had countless veterans, first responders, spouses come to 399 00:21:59,580 --> 00:22:02,300 S7: me and say, my husband or my wife needs help. 400 00:22:02,820 --> 00:22:07,740 S7: And they're far from recognizing the veteran or first responders, 401 00:22:07,780 --> 00:22:11,700 S7: far from recognizing that they have a problem. Yeah. And 402 00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:15,899 S7: so when if someone isn't, isn't married or isn't in 403 00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:20,560 S7: a relationship, but they're recognizing they're starting to have nightmares, 404 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,399 S7: or they're restless, or they can't be alone with their thoughts, 405 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,440 S7: or they have to have some a distraction, constantly going 406 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,560 S7: to something or trying to numb themselves out with alcohol 407 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,480 S7: or substances or whatever, whatever hobbies they are. It could 408 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,320 S7: be good hobbies, but it can become obsessive and more 409 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,720 S7: of a distraction than, than people can start recognizing. Okay, maybe, 410 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,920 S7: maybe I'm trying to run from something. Maybe. Maybe there's 411 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:47,640 S7: a problem. 412 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,520 S1: MM. Ellie, help me understand with trauma, if you haven't 413 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,480 S1: served as a first responder, if you haven't served in 414 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,080 S1: the military. So if you're not a vet and you 415 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,760 S1: could associate. I saw this on the battlefield. I saw 416 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,639 S1: this as a first responder when I showed up at 417 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,640 S1: the scene of the accident, but rather it's very deeply repressed. 418 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,119 S1: I was sexually abused. You talk about several people that 419 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,200 S1: you've worked with in the book. I'm a 60 year 420 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,840 S1: old woman who was sexually abused by a religious leader 421 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,190 S1: and buried it for decades and decades and decades. Talk 422 00:23:20,190 --> 00:23:23,149 S1: to that person who says something's off. I know it, 423 00:23:23,150 --> 00:23:26,149 S1: but I. I'd rather it's the devil I know versus 424 00:23:26,150 --> 00:23:27,870 S1: the devil I don't know. I'm. Not sure I want 425 00:23:27,910 --> 00:23:30,430 S1: to find what the cause of the trauma was. That 426 00:23:30,430 --> 00:23:33,550 S1: might be overwhelming for me. That, to me, it seems, 427 00:23:33,550 --> 00:23:36,910 S1: falls into the category of a psychological barrier. How does 428 00:23:36,910 --> 00:23:37,950 S1: one get over that? 429 00:23:38,550 --> 00:23:44,470 S7: Yes, definitely. So traumas can be even from childhood, where 430 00:23:44,470 --> 00:23:47,070 S7: their parents were divorced and there was a traumatic breakup 431 00:23:47,070 --> 00:23:50,709 S7: and loss. Or it could be it could be relational 432 00:23:50,750 --> 00:23:54,710 S7: betrayal within marriage. It could be, um, a car wreck. 433 00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:58,149 S7: It could be a natural disaster. There's multiple things outside 434 00:23:58,150 --> 00:24:02,510 S7: of combat that can cause traumas and, and really just 435 00:24:02,550 --> 00:24:07,630 S7: recognizing that it's, um, it's a necessity that to deal 436 00:24:07,630 --> 00:24:10,910 S7: with the trauma because God is more powerful than the 437 00:24:10,910 --> 00:24:13,669 S7: trauma and he wants to bring freedom in those areas 438 00:24:13,950 --> 00:24:14,510 S7: and he can't. 439 00:24:14,619 --> 00:24:16,020 S5: Amen. Amen. 440 00:24:16,300 --> 00:24:18,619 S1: Friends, if you don't hear anything else this hour. What 441 00:24:18,660 --> 00:24:22,100 S1: doctor Elizabeth Stevens just said, that is your takeaway. Her 442 00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:25,660 S1: book is called Unshackled Finding God's Freedom from Trauma. More 443 00:24:25,660 --> 00:24:44,740 S1: after this. Going through life with the Bible in one 444 00:24:44,740 --> 00:24:46,780 S1: hand and the newspaper and the other is essential for 445 00:24:46,780 --> 00:24:48,460 S1: each of us on our walk with Christ. And that's 446 00:24:48,460 --> 00:24:50,859 S1: what we do on in the market. We examine culture, 447 00:24:50,859 --> 00:24:52,939 S1: interpret the headlines, and look at the news from a 448 00:24:52,940 --> 00:24:56,060 S1: biblical perspective. When you become a partial partner, you're directly 449 00:24:56,060 --> 00:24:58,820 S1: responsible for putting this program on the air, reaching men 450 00:24:58,820 --> 00:25:02,060 S1: and women across America with the practical application of God's Word. 451 00:25:02,100 --> 00:25:04,700 S1: Become a partial partner today by calling eight seven, seven 452 00:25:04,700 --> 00:25:08,260 S1: Janet 58 or go to in the market with Janet partial.org. 453 00:25:11,700 --> 00:25:14,929 S1: We're discussing the issue of trauma with Doctor Elizabeth Stevens, 454 00:25:14,970 --> 00:25:17,410 S1: a woman who understands this full well. Not only is 455 00:25:17,410 --> 00:25:20,690 S1: she a board certified psychiatrist, but she is also a 456 00:25:20,690 --> 00:25:22,930 S1: trauma survivor, and she puts it all together in a 457 00:25:22,930 --> 00:25:26,330 S1: book that really does, in the most heartfelt fashion, address 458 00:25:26,330 --> 00:25:31,010 S1: this subject. It's called Unshackled Finding God's Freedom from Trauma. Elie, 459 00:25:31,010 --> 00:25:32,770 S1: let me pull something out, if I can, from something 460 00:25:32,770 --> 00:25:34,850 S1: you said earlier, because I want our friends to understand 461 00:25:34,850 --> 00:25:38,890 S1: this relationship, particularly because it is another epidemic we're dealing 462 00:25:38,890 --> 00:25:41,730 S1: with in this country, and that is suicide. The upticks 463 00:25:41,730 --> 00:25:45,850 S1: are stunning and alarming. The admits for attempts are through 464 00:25:45,850 --> 00:25:49,050 S1: the roof, particularly in adolescent adolescent girls, even more so 465 00:25:49,050 --> 00:25:52,650 S1: than boys. And we know the horrific numbers among our 466 00:25:52,650 --> 00:25:58,450 S1: vets absolutely overwhelming. It is horrific and attention must be paid. 467 00:25:58,730 --> 00:26:01,050 S1: There is a linkage, you write in the book, rightfully 468 00:26:01,050 --> 00:26:03,889 S1: between trauma and suicide. Can you flesh that out a 469 00:26:03,890 --> 00:26:05,050 S1: little bit for us, please? 470 00:26:06,609 --> 00:26:11,159 S7: So trauma can. It has a way of isolating people 471 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,320 S7: and isolation is one of the main risk factors for suicide. 472 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:21,680 S7: Isolation from community, isolation from God, from from any supportive 473 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:27,639 S7: community and trauma also leads to substance abuse, because what 474 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,080 S7: happens with trauma is a lot of people want to 475 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,200 S7: avoid the memory of it, the experience of it, any 476 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,879 S7: thought of it. And so they go to substances to, 477 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,520 S7: to really try to numb their mind and, and not 478 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,320 S7: have to think about it. And a lot of the 479 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:51,160 S7: suicides are actually com completed when people are intoxicated. And 480 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,880 S7: so trauma is a huge risk factor for suicides. 481 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:56,000 S5: Yeah. 482 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,840 S1: And people need to see that linkage and that connection there. 483 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:03,120 S1: That's unbelievable isolation. That's such a crucial part of this conversation. 484 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,280 S1: And that's why God created us for community. And John Donne, 485 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,600 S1: the great British poet, said, no man is an island. 486 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,350 S1: We were built to bear one another's burdens and to 487 00:27:11,350 --> 00:27:13,110 S1: be in community with each other. So if you know 488 00:27:13,109 --> 00:27:15,990 S1: someone who's starting to isolate, that's also a red flag 489 00:27:15,990 --> 00:27:18,590 S1: as well. So pay attention. I want to talk about 490 00:27:18,590 --> 00:27:20,830 S1: the pathways because that's where you devote the back half 491 00:27:20,830 --> 00:27:22,310 S1: of the book is you start by taking a look 492 00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:25,070 S1: at the barriers, but then you move toward pathway, because 493 00:27:25,070 --> 00:27:27,110 S1: the goal here is to help people do exactly what 494 00:27:27,109 --> 00:27:31,350 S1: your subtitle says, Finding God's Freedom from trauma. So if 495 00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:33,669 S1: I can, just to square off the two, you talk 496 00:27:33,710 --> 00:27:37,870 S1: about overcoming spiritual barriers, but you also talk about pursuing God. 497 00:27:38,150 --> 00:27:41,150 S1: Would you start with what some of the spiritual barriers 498 00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:44,070 S1: are when it comes to dealing with healing from trauma? 499 00:27:44,070 --> 00:27:46,629 S1: And then show me how pursuing God puts us on 500 00:27:46,670 --> 00:27:47,830 S1: that path toward healing. 501 00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:53,909 S7: So spiritual barriers, again, isolation is another one. Uh, a 502 00:27:53,950 --> 00:27:58,390 S7: lot of times in, in trauma, people, people either blame themselves, 503 00:27:58,390 --> 00:28:02,430 S7: like I blame myself or they blame God, or they 504 00:28:02,430 --> 00:28:05,990 S7: think that God was punishing them for the trauma that happened. 505 00:28:06,570 --> 00:28:10,850 S7: And so that brings more barriers between them and God. 506 00:28:11,050 --> 00:28:14,690 S7: Or there's the idea of, well, I have to redeem 507 00:28:14,690 --> 00:28:18,250 S7: what happened. I have to work, work out, work it 508 00:28:18,250 --> 00:28:21,649 S7: out myself. God wasn't there for me then. He's not 509 00:28:21,650 --> 00:28:23,970 S7: going to be there for me, working out the trauma. 510 00:28:24,490 --> 00:28:29,090 S7: And so it's really, really barriers that disconnect us from God, 511 00:28:29,090 --> 00:28:32,170 S7: disconnect us from the one who loves us more than 512 00:28:32,170 --> 00:28:35,970 S7: life itself, disconnect us from the almighty power that we 513 00:28:35,970 --> 00:28:39,730 S7: have access to as Christians. Um, and so that's, that's 514 00:28:39,730 --> 00:28:44,210 S7: a major barrier, um, distance from God and isolation. Um, 515 00:28:44,250 --> 00:28:49,650 S7: also silence with prayer. I went, I went three years 516 00:28:49,650 --> 00:28:52,850 S7: without being able to go back to work and prayed 517 00:28:52,850 --> 00:28:55,970 S7: every day for me to be able to read again 518 00:28:55,970 --> 00:28:59,570 S7: without getting a migraine. And, and the prayers weren't answered. 519 00:28:59,570 --> 00:29:04,810 S7: And so it's that it's that feeling that God's, God's 520 00:29:04,810 --> 00:29:08,600 S7: not with you. He's not there. And, um. And even 521 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,880 S7: though you feel that he's not there, we know that 522 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,240 S7: he's there all the time, and he's there holding us together. 523 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,440 S7: And so those are some of the main, main, uh, 524 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:25,160 S7: spiritual barriers, um, restlessness, not being able to, to concentrate 525 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,960 S7: or focus on the word. I couldn't read and so 526 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,320 S7: all I could really do was listen to podcasts, listen 527 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,600 S7: to the Bible app, and just listen to scripture on, 528 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,880 S7: on tape. And, and that's really all I could do. 529 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:44,160 S7: But there were times when it was really dark and 530 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,440 S7: I was really angry at God, but nevertheless, I, I 531 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,520 S7: still clung to him even when I could only cling 532 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,320 S7: to him with a, a loose grip. And, um, that's 533 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,040 S7: the only thing that got me through. And so those 534 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,320 S7: spiritual barriers are important to acknowledge. And I didn't really 535 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,470 S7: acknowledge what was going on. I thought, well, I'm still 536 00:30:05,470 --> 00:30:08,870 S7: following God. I'm still going to church, I'm still listening 537 00:30:08,910 --> 00:30:12,870 S7: to the Bible. But my heart was getting harder and 538 00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:18,030 S7: harder and harder. And one of the main pieces that 539 00:30:18,030 --> 00:30:22,310 S7: I had was I, I ended up making a decision 540 00:30:22,310 --> 00:30:27,110 S7: after my brain injury to cut off a relationship of that. 541 00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:31,590 S7: I was, um, I was engaged in that was sinful. And, um, 542 00:30:31,630 --> 00:30:34,469 S7: that's when I got right after that, I got raped. 543 00:30:34,470 --> 00:30:38,310 S7: And so it was in that moment where I was like, well, God, 544 00:30:38,350 --> 00:30:41,430 S7: I chose you. I did what was right and this 545 00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:44,790 S7: is what happened. And so I really buried that within 546 00:30:44,790 --> 00:30:48,910 S7: my soul. And I didn't address that until years later. 547 00:30:48,910 --> 00:30:52,510 S7: And that's when I found the true spiritual freedom that 548 00:30:52,510 --> 00:30:55,590 S7: I needed, that I knew that he was with me 549 00:30:55,590 --> 00:31:00,190 S7: all along. And even in the darkness, even even when 550 00:31:00,190 --> 00:31:04,580 S7: I was making horrible decisions and good decisions. His love 551 00:31:04,580 --> 00:31:08,980 S7: never changed for me. And so the the paths to 552 00:31:09,020 --> 00:31:13,380 S7: healing of pursuing God. I think part, the main piece 553 00:31:13,380 --> 00:31:18,620 S7: is knowing, knowing God, knowing him rightly, knowing his character, 554 00:31:18,820 --> 00:31:21,500 S7: knowing that he's not out to harm us, that he's 555 00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:25,060 S7: not out to, to, to punish us, but he's waiting 556 00:31:25,060 --> 00:31:28,180 S7: with open arms to receive us back as his children. 557 00:31:28,780 --> 00:31:33,820 S7: And with. When I was around 5 or 6, I, 558 00:31:33,860 --> 00:31:37,300 S7: I was molested and I didn't really deal with that 559 00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:42,980 S7: until after all of these other traumas. And that created 560 00:31:42,980 --> 00:31:47,380 S7: a spiritual barrier in me that I felt worthless and 561 00:31:47,380 --> 00:31:49,860 S7: I felt like I had to perform. I felt like 562 00:31:49,860 --> 00:31:53,660 S7: I had to prove my worth. And even though I 563 00:31:53,660 --> 00:31:57,500 S7: believe that I was saved by grace through faith in 564 00:31:57,660 --> 00:32:01,210 S7: Jesus dying for my sins and and and having complete forgiveness. 565 00:32:01,650 --> 00:32:04,210 S7: I lived a life of trying to prove my worth 566 00:32:04,210 --> 00:32:09,410 S7: and perform. And so that barrier was was blocking God 567 00:32:09,410 --> 00:32:13,530 S7: as well. And so I didn't truly see God as 568 00:32:13,530 --> 00:32:17,930 S7: unconditionally loving, as full of grace and full of mercy. 569 00:32:18,730 --> 00:32:22,130 S7: I just, I saw him as not approving of who 570 00:32:22,130 --> 00:32:25,570 S7: I was. And so until I dealt with that barrier, 571 00:32:25,770 --> 00:32:29,730 S7: I wasn't truly able to pursue God with my full heart. 572 00:32:30,490 --> 00:32:31,410 S8: MM. Wow. 573 00:32:32,130 --> 00:32:34,090 S1: Oh, Ellie, so many things to unpack in what you 574 00:32:34,090 --> 00:32:36,370 S1: just said. Let me go. Particularly to that part where 575 00:32:36,690 --> 00:32:38,410 S1: you knew that the Lord was stirring in your heart. 576 00:32:38,410 --> 00:32:40,209 S1: That you were involved in something that was wrong and 577 00:32:40,210 --> 00:32:42,209 S1: you wanted to make it right. So you break it off. 578 00:32:42,530 --> 00:32:44,890 S1: And rather than getting a kind of, um, and I'm 579 00:32:44,890 --> 00:32:46,610 S1: going to paint a word picture here, I use, I 580 00:32:46,650 --> 00:32:48,890 S1: call it a dozen roses from the Lord, a sort of, 581 00:32:49,210 --> 00:32:51,610 S1: you know, well done. That was exactly what I wanted 582 00:32:51,610 --> 00:32:54,490 S1: you to do. Boom. The rape takes place. You could 583 00:32:54,490 --> 00:32:57,650 S1: have absolutely said with a raised fist to heaven. That's it. 584 00:32:57,650 --> 00:33:00,230 S1: You and I are parted company. You're going your way. 585 00:33:00,230 --> 00:33:01,870 S1: I'm going mine. You said a couple of things there 586 00:33:01,870 --> 00:33:03,830 S1: I want to pull out. One was you got mad 587 00:33:03,830 --> 00:33:06,270 S1: at God. I think there was a collective sigh that 588 00:33:06,270 --> 00:33:08,229 S1: I heard all across the country that God is big 589 00:33:08,230 --> 00:33:11,230 S1: enough to handle our anger. If we're angry, he already 590 00:33:11,230 --> 00:33:13,910 S1: knows it. So just saying, father, where were you when 591 00:33:13,910 --> 00:33:16,310 S1: this happened? I did the right thing. I am mad, 592 00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:19,190 S1: I don't think that. And I know he's a holy God, 593 00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:21,870 S1: but he's also our ABBA Father. Is it okay to 594 00:33:21,910 --> 00:33:23,950 S1: come to him with our anger and say, where were 595 00:33:23,950 --> 00:33:25,550 S1: you when this happened? I'm so mad. 596 00:33:26,550 --> 00:33:30,230 S7: Of course. I mean, there's so many Psalms where David 597 00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:33,550 S7: comes to him in anger and even tells him to 598 00:33:33,590 --> 00:33:36,310 S7: turn his face away from him so that he can 599 00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:38,990 S7: smile again. And, and it's just really important for us 600 00:33:38,990 --> 00:33:43,070 S7: to know that God wants us to let us into 601 00:33:43,590 --> 00:33:47,270 S7: let him into our hearts. He wants us to, to 602 00:33:47,310 --> 00:33:51,870 S7: be transparent and vulnerable with ourselves and with him and, 603 00:33:52,110 --> 00:33:55,550 S7: and with our emotions. And when we keep anger in and, 604 00:33:55,550 --> 00:33:58,100 S7: and stuffed, where it's not that it's not there, we 605 00:33:58,100 --> 00:34:02,460 S7: just aren't acknowledging it. And it's it's causing a disruption 606 00:34:02,460 --> 00:34:04,180 S7: within our relationship with him. 607 00:34:04,780 --> 00:34:05,260 S8: Yeah. 608 00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:09,860 S1: Yeah, absolutely. So in your particular journey, because I love people, 609 00:34:10,100 --> 00:34:12,500 S1: play your story out vicariously in their own life, you 610 00:34:12,500 --> 00:34:14,900 S1: know that this is what happens when people peer in 611 00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:18,020 S1: and they listen closely to your story. All of these things, 612 00:34:18,020 --> 00:34:20,259 S1: when what happened as a child, you do the right thing. 613 00:34:20,300 --> 00:34:22,700 S1: The rape that takes place the three years before you're 614 00:34:22,700 --> 00:34:24,540 S1: able to go back to work and you are, in 615 00:34:24,540 --> 00:34:26,899 S1: your own words, a high achiever. You could have given 616 00:34:26,900 --> 00:34:29,819 S1: up over and over and over again, this idea of 617 00:34:29,820 --> 00:34:34,100 S1: stepping closer and confidently into his everlasting arms of love, 618 00:34:34,380 --> 00:34:37,340 S1: where he never promised us that we wouldn't have trials. 619 00:34:37,340 --> 00:34:40,180 S1: In fact, if anything, his word says we will. But 620 00:34:40,180 --> 00:34:42,180 S1: he promised in the midst of those trials, he would 621 00:34:42,180 --> 00:34:45,100 S1: never leave us or forsake us. Was that a slow 622 00:34:45,260 --> 00:34:48,340 S1: aha moment for you, or was there some seminal moment 623 00:34:48,340 --> 00:34:51,299 S1: where God made himself manifest and you went, I've turned 624 00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:51,860 S1: the corner. 625 00:34:52,900 --> 00:34:55,770 S7: There was a moment, and I'll never forget this moment 626 00:34:55,770 --> 00:35:02,090 S7: because I. I felt peace and joy for the first time. 627 00:35:02,690 --> 00:35:02,930 S8: Mhm. 628 00:35:02,969 --> 00:35:06,290 S7: And and that was after I came to the realization 629 00:35:06,730 --> 00:35:10,009 S7: that I was holding a lot of things in my 630 00:35:10,010 --> 00:35:15,410 S7: life as idols. A lot of my achievements trying to, um, 631 00:35:15,810 --> 00:35:19,969 S7: have the be a psychiatrist, be an officer, um, have a, 632 00:35:20,010 --> 00:35:23,009 S7: have a good family, have an amazing husband and all 633 00:35:23,050 --> 00:35:25,129 S7: of these things. I was, I was holding up as 634 00:35:25,130 --> 00:35:28,210 S7: idols of checking all these boxes and I must complete 635 00:35:28,210 --> 00:35:31,850 S7: these boxes and, and the fourteeners, the, the peaks in 636 00:35:31,850 --> 00:35:35,210 S7: Colorado trying to complete all of those. And I came 637 00:35:35,210 --> 00:35:41,330 S7: to the realization that God. God satisfies every single desire 638 00:35:41,330 --> 00:35:46,210 S7: of my heart. And I finally prayed to him, God, 639 00:35:46,210 --> 00:35:49,049 S7: I don't care if I ever get married or have 640 00:35:49,050 --> 00:35:54,280 S7: kids or climb another mountain. I just want you. And 641 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,920 S7: that's when. That's when my soul just my heart just melted. 642 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:03,760 S7: And I was able to receive his love, receive his mercy, 643 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,839 S7: receive his forgiveness. And I've. I've never felt anything like 644 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:08,760 S7: that in my life. 645 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,560 S1: Such a reminder that in complete surrender is total peace 646 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,919 S1: and victory. It's so antithetical to everything we experience as 647 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,680 S1: mere mortals. But when Jesus is everything, he is your 648 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:45,320 S1: all in all. Back after this. Absolutely wonderful tender book. 649 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,040 S1: Anyone who deals with trauma loves. Somebody who's dealing with 650 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,629 S1: trauma might sense that trauma might be at the root 651 00:36:52,630 --> 00:36:54,270 S1: of some of the things you're dealing with. You've just 652 00:36:54,270 --> 00:36:56,750 S1: never identified it. Or more to the point, as Ellie's 653 00:36:56,790 --> 00:36:59,509 S1: been teaching us, you've denied it all together. This is 654 00:36:59,510 --> 00:37:02,350 S1: a wonderful book for you to read. Unshackled. Great. You 655 00:37:02,350 --> 00:37:06,230 S1: just picture the chains falling off, unshackled, finding God's freedom 656 00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:09,710 S1: from trauma. Again, our guest, Doctor Elizabeth Stevens, retired U.S. 657 00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:13,910 S1: Air Force major board certified psychiatrist and also the executive 658 00:37:13,910 --> 00:37:18,990 S1: director of Advancing Warriors International, especially designed to help vets 659 00:37:19,030 --> 00:37:22,750 S1: and military members and emergency responders deal with trauma and 660 00:37:22,750 --> 00:37:25,390 S1: all the trauma they have experienced. Ellie, let me go 661 00:37:25,390 --> 00:37:27,270 S1: back to there's so much in the book, by the way. 662 00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:29,110 S1: I just have to make this disclaimer to our friends. 663 00:37:29,110 --> 00:37:32,109 S1: There is a ton of rich, rich richness in this 664 00:37:32,110 --> 00:37:34,670 S1: book that just because of the tyranny of the clock, 665 00:37:34,670 --> 00:37:36,750 S1: I can't get to. But if what you've heard so 666 00:37:36,750 --> 00:37:39,230 S1: far is compelling and winsome and draws you to this topic, 667 00:37:39,230 --> 00:37:41,350 S1: please get a copy of the book and read the rest. 668 00:37:41,350 --> 00:37:43,670 S1: But I want to put a capstone on this in 669 00:37:43,670 --> 00:37:47,830 S1: our conversation because after trauma, life is divided in before 670 00:37:47,870 --> 00:37:50,569 S1: and after. That's what happens. We tend to divide this 671 00:37:50,570 --> 00:37:53,810 S1: timeline because honestly, we're never the same person again. Tell 672 00:37:53,810 --> 00:37:57,330 S1: me about the Ellie after God wired you to be brilliant, 673 00:37:57,330 --> 00:37:59,930 S1: you wouldn't be a board certified psychiatrist, wired you to 674 00:37:59,930 --> 00:38:02,810 S1: be loyal. You come from a military family. You have 675 00:38:02,810 --> 00:38:05,210 S1: to be loyal to serve in the military. You obviously 676 00:38:05,210 --> 00:38:07,009 S1: have a high sense of duty. Wouldn't have gone to 677 00:38:07,050 --> 00:38:09,609 S1: the military. I mean, all of those traits are so 678 00:38:09,610 --> 00:38:14,410 S1: self-evident just in what you are and who you've become now. 679 00:38:14,770 --> 00:38:16,810 S1: God made you that way. So how does that all 680 00:38:16,810 --> 00:38:19,770 S1: work in the Post-trauma world for Ellie Stevens? 681 00:38:21,410 --> 00:38:26,850 S7: So Pre-trauma Ellie was very stoic, very much get the 682 00:38:26,850 --> 00:38:32,370 S7: job done, mission oriented and Post-trauma Ellie is a lot 683 00:38:32,370 --> 00:38:36,969 S7: more empathetic with a softened heart and really showing a 684 00:38:36,969 --> 00:38:41,290 S7: lot more emotions. Um, and, and being able to relate 685 00:38:41,290 --> 00:38:45,170 S7: to people on a deeper level. And so prior to 686 00:38:45,210 --> 00:38:51,640 S7: the trauma, I didn't really share anything personal with anyone. Obviously, 687 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,960 S7: after the trauma, I, you know, writing a book about 688 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,960 S7: all of these personal things. And so just really seeing 689 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:03,000 S7: that God used my experience, my training, how he created 690 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:07,280 S7: me and instead of me doing all of that for 691 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,640 S7: him to perform, he has transformed me to do it 692 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,480 S7: with him and his strength and for his glory. And 693 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,560 S7: so it was prior to trauma in my own strength, 694 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,839 S7: after trauma, depending on him with everything and watching him 695 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:25,040 S7: do amazing things. 696 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:26,720 S8: Wow. Wow. 697 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,160 S1: You know, it's interesting that trauma has this funny way 698 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,040 S1: of knocking off all the props. I can hear so 699 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,480 S1: clearly the same issue that I deal with, which is 700 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,560 S1: it's performance oriented, right? You have to do it with 701 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,480 S1: 15 extra credit points, and the better you do it, 702 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,680 S1: the more you'll be affirmed and valued. And that is 703 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,879 S1: so antithetical to the Christian walk because we don't do 704 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,350 S1: a thing. He did it all for us. We obey 705 00:39:48,350 --> 00:39:51,390 S1: him out of obedience. And primarily we do it out 706 00:39:51,390 --> 00:39:54,710 S1: of love. And the declarative statement Jesus loves me. Period 707 00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:57,669 S1: doesn't come with a comma. We keep adding the comma 708 00:39:57,950 --> 00:40:02,470 S1: because we're loved conditionally. We tend to love ourselves, others conditionally, 709 00:40:02,469 --> 00:40:05,509 S1: and then we do. Performance. Affirmation is somehow defining our 710 00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:08,790 S1: self-worth and our value. So opposite of what the word 711 00:40:08,830 --> 00:40:13,390 S1: teaches us. I love the way that you said that post. Ellie, you. 712 00:40:13,430 --> 00:40:15,149 S1: The most important thing in your life now is doing 713 00:40:15,150 --> 00:40:16,670 S1: this check of where I am with God. AM I 714 00:40:16,670 --> 00:40:18,029 S1: in His Word? AM I talking to him on a 715 00:40:18,030 --> 00:40:21,790 S1: regular basis? And if that becomes the primary northern star 716 00:40:21,790 --> 00:40:23,670 S1: for your life, all of these other things tend to 717 00:40:23,710 --> 00:40:27,149 S1: fall into place, which is amazing. Also, the other thing 718 00:40:27,150 --> 00:40:29,950 S1: I resonated with is trauma has the potential, if we're 719 00:40:29,950 --> 00:40:33,350 S1: willing to let it make us much more empathetic people. 720 00:40:33,390 --> 00:40:35,710 S1: Maybe it goes back to the scripture of recognizing the 721 00:40:35,710 --> 00:40:38,670 S1: comfort with which with we ourselves have been given, and 722 00:40:38,710 --> 00:40:40,549 S1: were then able to give it to other people because 723 00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:43,860 S1: we've seen how God comforted us in our time of sorrow. 724 00:40:43,860 --> 00:40:46,220 S1: And we were walking through those valleys in that dark 725 00:40:46,219 --> 00:40:48,660 S1: night of the soul. So it helps us to be 726 00:40:48,660 --> 00:40:51,980 S1: more empathetic and caring about other people's story. The other thing, too, 727 00:40:52,020 --> 00:40:54,819 S1: is that God sometimes gives birth to other ministries. Tell 728 00:40:54,860 --> 00:40:57,380 S1: me about how advancing warriors came to be. 729 00:40:58,540 --> 00:41:01,820 S7: So I've always had a heart for veterans and first responders. 730 00:41:01,820 --> 00:41:05,580 S7: I have a lot, obviously a lot of military members 731 00:41:05,580 --> 00:41:08,020 S7: in my family. I have a lot of law enforcement 732 00:41:08,020 --> 00:41:10,779 S7: in my family. And, and really recognizing, I mean, I 733 00:41:10,780 --> 00:41:16,379 S7: have the similar personality of the mission oriented performance and, 734 00:41:16,380 --> 00:41:20,140 S7: and just going through my journey of trauma and isolation, 735 00:41:20,140 --> 00:41:23,380 S7: I didn't have that group of people who could relate 736 00:41:23,380 --> 00:41:26,219 S7: to my trauma, could relate to my story that I 737 00:41:26,219 --> 00:41:31,700 S7: could trust. And so I created this nonprofit through my 738 00:41:31,739 --> 00:41:35,900 S7: journey of trauma. And what I, what I did was those, 739 00:41:35,940 --> 00:41:40,100 S7: those spiritual concepts that were breakthroughs in my life that 740 00:41:40,100 --> 00:41:43,930 S7: I learned from God. I put them in programs. So 741 00:41:43,930 --> 00:41:48,170 S7: the first program is, is really identifying barriers and, and 742 00:41:48,170 --> 00:41:51,489 S7: chipping away at those within a community of other vets 743 00:41:51,530 --> 00:41:54,970 S7: and first responders who get it, who've, who've been there, 744 00:41:54,969 --> 00:41:59,569 S7: done that, and who can develop that community of trust, 745 00:41:59,969 --> 00:42:03,490 S7: come together and then and wrestle with things before God. 746 00:42:04,130 --> 00:42:07,370 S7: And then the next program is called armed, and it's 747 00:42:07,610 --> 00:42:11,610 S7: all dealing with spiritual warfare. And then the third program 748 00:42:11,890 --> 00:42:14,930 S7: is regroup. And and that's really how do you practically 749 00:42:14,930 --> 00:42:17,890 S7: follow Jesus? What does that look like when you fall 750 00:42:17,890 --> 00:42:20,650 S7: into shame cycle? What does it look like to truly 751 00:42:20,650 --> 00:42:23,250 S7: walk in the light? And what are some examples in 752 00:42:23,250 --> 00:42:26,650 S7: the Bible that we can follow or we shouldn't follow? 753 00:42:26,690 --> 00:42:31,050 S7: And so really helping veterans and first responders be able 754 00:42:31,050 --> 00:42:35,609 S7: to relate to God, um, through their experiences and through 755 00:42:35,610 --> 00:42:36,410 S7: their jobs. 756 00:42:36,930 --> 00:42:37,330 S8: Wow. 757 00:42:38,010 --> 00:42:40,310 S1: Ellie, I'm going to ask a tough question. You and 758 00:42:40,310 --> 00:42:42,430 S1: I understand this, but to the secular world out there 759 00:42:42,430 --> 00:42:46,630 S1: where marked animosity increases against followers of Christ, because the 760 00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:48,989 S1: suicide rate is at an epidemic proportion when it comes 761 00:42:48,989 --> 00:42:50,989 S1: to our vets, because our heart breaks for those who 762 00:42:50,989 --> 00:42:52,950 S1: stood in the gap for us, who kept the watch 763 00:42:52,950 --> 00:42:56,670 S1: when we were sleeping, because there's obviously a huge Christ 764 00:42:56,710 --> 00:43:00,710 S1: centered aspect to advancing warriors. Is the military open to 765 00:43:00,750 --> 00:43:03,390 S1: your being a referred service that they can use? Or 766 00:43:03,430 --> 00:43:06,149 S1: how about people just listening to us right now? I'm 767 00:43:06,190 --> 00:43:08,870 S1: going to put the link to Advancing Warriors International on 768 00:43:08,870 --> 00:43:11,310 S1: my website. So it's there for people. But how do 769 00:43:11,310 --> 00:43:13,270 S1: you get the word out so that people know that 770 00:43:13,270 --> 00:43:14,910 S1: advancing wars is there for help? 771 00:43:16,110 --> 00:43:19,509 S7: It is difficult to go to secular arenas and try 772 00:43:19,510 --> 00:43:23,069 S7: to promote programs that are Christ centered, but we've had 773 00:43:23,070 --> 00:43:27,150 S7: people within our groups recognize, wow, this is a community 774 00:43:27,190 --> 00:43:30,630 S7: that really gets me. They're not forcing these beliefs on me, 775 00:43:30,630 --> 00:43:33,870 S7: but they're sharing their faith and, and what they believe. And, 776 00:43:33,870 --> 00:43:39,259 S7: and so it's, it's really recognizing that you can you 777 00:43:39,260 --> 00:43:42,420 S7: can join the community and just come and see. And 778 00:43:42,420 --> 00:43:45,500 S7: check it out. And it's nothing that's going to be 779 00:43:45,500 --> 00:43:49,220 S7: forced upon them. And. And other. There have been secular 780 00:43:49,219 --> 00:43:52,739 S7: arenas that have been receptive, knowing. That this provides community. 781 00:43:52,739 --> 00:43:56,620 S7: This provides hope. This provides purpose. Um, but we also 782 00:43:56,620 --> 00:44:01,180 S7: are opening it up to non vets and first responders to. 783 00:44:01,219 --> 00:44:05,220 S7: Who have experienced trauma, who want that community. And so we're. 784 00:44:05,260 --> 00:44:07,060 S7: We're in the process of doing that as well. 785 00:44:07,660 --> 00:44:10,340 S1: Well, Elizabeth, it gives me the privilege and the opportunity 786 00:44:10,340 --> 00:44:12,100 S1: to tell our friends who are listening now pray that 787 00:44:12,100 --> 00:44:16,739 S1: God opens the doors for advancing Warriors International even wider 788 00:44:16,739 --> 00:44:21,140 S1: because trauma is real and this wave of suicide is real, 789 00:44:21,140 --> 00:44:24,859 S1: and there is a way toward healing. That's exactly what 790 00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:28,100 S1: Doctor Stevens understands. It's exactly what she writes about in 791 00:44:28,100 --> 00:44:32,140 S1: her book unshackled. So check it out. Elizabeth. Memorable conversation. 792 00:44:32,140 --> 00:44:34,260 S1: Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Thank you friends. 793 00:44:34,260 --> 00:44:35,300 S1: We'll see you next time.