1 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,360 S1: How do you live for Jesus in the everyday trench 2 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,360 S1: that you're in right now? What is making it hard 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,920 S1: for you to live for Jesus today? How do you 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,600 S1: make what feels like a life changing decision about something 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,520 S1: important dating, marriage, money, your school? Or maybe you have 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,400 S1: a job interview. How do you move forward and honor 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,080 S1: God with all the decisions that you make today on 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,720 S1: Chris Fabry Live? She's back. Doctor Lina Abujamra tackles the 9 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,600 S1: concept of what it really means to follow Jesus. What 10 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,040 S1: does living by faith look like in the warp and 11 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,599 S1: woof of life? How do you avoid caving to the 12 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,279 S1: pressures that you face all around you? Lina says the 13 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,600 S1: thing no one tells you about following Jesus is it's 14 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,760 S1: not easy. Let's talk about it straight ahead on the program. 15 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,240 S1: From the heart to the heart for the heart, online 16 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,320 S1: at Chris Fabry live.org. Let me thank our team, Ryan 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,940 S1: McConaughey doing all things technical. Trish is our producer. Lisa's 18 00:01:00,940 --> 00:01:04,060 S1: in the chair. Josh will be answering your calls. And 19 00:01:04,060 --> 00:01:06,780 S1: the other members of the team support what we do 20 00:01:06,819 --> 00:01:09,540 S1: at the back fence. And you have been so encouraging 21 00:01:09,540 --> 00:01:12,300 S1: already this month. Can't tell you how much it means 22 00:01:12,740 --> 00:01:14,860 S1: to see these names of people who are giving a 23 00:01:14,860 --> 00:01:17,740 S1: financial gift to keep these programs coming to you and 24 00:01:17,740 --> 00:01:20,700 S1: to others. And part of the response, I think, is 25 00:01:20,700 --> 00:01:23,060 S1: our thank you. I'm getting email from people who heard 26 00:01:23,060 --> 00:01:27,380 S1: about August's. Uh, thank you. And they are afraid that 27 00:01:27,380 --> 00:01:30,180 S1: they missed out. Let not your heart be troubled. Doctor 28 00:01:30,180 --> 00:01:33,500 S1: Cathy Cooks excellent book, resolve Conflict and Find Peace and 29 00:01:33,500 --> 00:01:36,580 S1: Hope with adult children is. I thank you again here 30 00:01:36,580 --> 00:01:40,539 S1: in September. I figured this would be really important. And 31 00:01:40,540 --> 00:01:42,860 S1: if you give a gift of any size or become 32 00:01:42,860 --> 00:01:45,780 S1: a monthly supporter of back fence partner with us, we'd 33 00:01:45,780 --> 00:01:47,780 S1: love to send you a copy. Just go to Chris 34 00:01:47,820 --> 00:01:53,420 S1: Fabry Live FABRY, Chris fabriclive.org. You can see how to give. 35 00:01:53,460 --> 00:01:56,220 S1: You'll see the book right there. If you've got an 36 00:01:56,260 --> 00:02:01,040 S1: estranged adult child or a fracture in that relationship. Or 37 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,520 S1: if you're the adult child and you're you're you have 38 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:09,240 S1: distance from your parents. Just go to chris.org. If you 39 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,559 S1: want to talk with somebody, the number is 86695 for debris. 40 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,600 S1: You'll hear a prompt to leave a message or give 41 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:24,080 S1: a gift. (866) 953-2279. Thank you for your generosity here in September. 42 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,080 S1: Her name is Lena. Doctor Lena Abujamra is a pediatric 43 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:34,760 S1: ER doctor who now practices telemedicine. She's a podcaster, conference speaker, 44 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,839 S1: Bible teacher, founder of Living with Power ministry. She hosts 45 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,920 S1: a podcast I mentioned that is probably she to host 46 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,320 S1: today's single Christian. And she is the author of a 47 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,480 S1: number of books like fractured Faith and Through the Desert 48 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,360 S1: and don't Tell Anyone you're reading this. We've talked about 49 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:57,050 S1: all those here. Her latest is All Your Life what 50 00:02:57,050 --> 00:03:01,049 S1: it really means to live for Jesus. Doctor Lena, welcome back. 51 00:03:01,050 --> 00:03:02,050 S1: How are you doing today? 52 00:03:02,970 --> 00:03:05,490 S2: I'm doing great. I'll tell you what, Chris. I confuse 53 00:03:05,490 --> 00:03:08,770 S2: myself too. Sometimes I can't keep track of what I'm doing. 54 00:03:09,490 --> 00:03:12,290 S1: Exactly. Well, I'd written it down here, and then I 55 00:03:12,330 --> 00:03:14,770 S1: messed it up. It's the old eyes, you know. We're 56 00:03:14,770 --> 00:03:18,290 S1: all getting older, Lena. Except for you. You're not getting 57 00:03:18,290 --> 00:03:20,650 S1: any older at all. What's your secret? 58 00:03:20,690 --> 00:03:23,130 S2: I don't know about that, man. Every day. I mean, 59 00:03:23,169 --> 00:03:25,170 S2: I feel it. I just had surgery on my ankle, 60 00:03:25,169 --> 00:03:27,489 S2: but I'm healing really well, so I'm probably not as 61 00:03:27,490 --> 00:03:29,730 S2: old as you are, so I'm back at it. 62 00:03:29,730 --> 00:03:33,530 S1: But good for you. Okay, so you begin the book. 63 00:03:33,530 --> 00:03:35,930 S1: This really arrested me. You said, here's the one thing 64 00:03:35,930 --> 00:03:39,330 S1: that nobody tells you about following Jesus. It's not easy. 65 00:03:39,490 --> 00:03:40,610 S1: Explain that to me. 66 00:03:41,410 --> 00:03:44,530 S2: Yeah, I would every year of following Jesus, I feel 67 00:03:44,530 --> 00:03:47,490 S2: it more and more. Although I believe that the tension 68 00:03:47,490 --> 00:03:50,370 S2: is that I believe Jesus becomes sweeter and sweeter, right? 69 00:03:50,410 --> 00:03:53,450 S2: His closeness is more. Even if you don't feel it's sweeter, 70 00:03:53,450 --> 00:03:56,070 S2: it's more needed. Like, I don't think there's a day 71 00:03:56,070 --> 00:03:57,790 S2: where I don't wake up. And the first thought in 72 00:03:57,790 --> 00:03:59,990 S2: my head is, God, Jesus, I need you today more 73 00:03:59,990 --> 00:04:03,110 S2: than I did yesterday. But the difficulties come in so 74 00:04:03,110 --> 00:04:07,150 S2: many unexpected ways. You know, when you're young, difficulties are 75 00:04:07,190 --> 00:04:10,230 S2: like making simple decisions about life that feel like the 76 00:04:10,230 --> 00:04:11,830 S2: end of the world to you, who you're going to marry, 77 00:04:11,830 --> 00:04:12,990 S2: or are you going to live, what you're going to 78 00:04:12,990 --> 00:04:15,550 S2: do for a living, etc.? You want to be missional. 79 00:04:15,590 --> 00:04:17,470 S2: How do you balance faith and life? And then you 80 00:04:17,470 --> 00:04:19,830 S2: get into your 30s. And if you don't get married now, 81 00:04:19,830 --> 00:04:21,830 S2: that's a new stress. And you know, that's when I 82 00:04:21,830 --> 00:04:23,990 S2: wrote my book on singleness. And then you get into 83 00:04:23,990 --> 00:04:25,710 S2: your 40s and all the things you believed in your 84 00:04:25,710 --> 00:04:28,150 S2: 20s about Jesus that you thought would happen by now. 85 00:04:28,510 --> 00:04:30,830 S2: You know, you gave the Lord ten years, 20 years. 86 00:04:30,830 --> 00:04:32,990 S2: And if they're still not happening, you sort of go 87 00:04:32,990 --> 00:04:35,429 S2: into this new crisis of faith. And and then there's 88 00:04:35,470 --> 00:04:37,310 S2: the evil one who now knows you more and more 89 00:04:37,350 --> 00:04:40,310 S2: as well. And he's throwing punches your way. And so, 90 00:04:40,350 --> 00:04:43,030 S2: you know, as Paul said, there's trouble within and without. 91 00:04:43,029 --> 00:04:44,710 S2: And I think the longer you live, the more you 92 00:04:44,710 --> 00:04:47,550 S2: see that to be true. And I've watched even, you know, 93 00:04:47,589 --> 00:04:49,550 S2: I've experienced that in my life. And then I'm now 94 00:04:49,550 --> 00:04:51,669 S2: I'm in a season where I'm caring for my mother. 95 00:04:51,950 --> 00:04:54,370 S2: Although honestly, sometimes she's doing a better job of caring 96 00:04:54,370 --> 00:04:56,850 S2: for me, but I'm up there more as she's facing 97 00:04:56,850 --> 00:04:58,770 S2: some more health issues, and I think she would attest 98 00:04:58,770 --> 00:05:01,450 S2: to that, too. She's in her mid 80s and the 99 00:05:01,450 --> 00:05:04,010 S2: difficulties continue to come. You never get a break this 100 00:05:04,010 --> 00:05:07,170 S2: side of heaven. So. So it is essential to know, 101 00:05:07,210 --> 00:05:09,810 S2: do I really believe who Jesus is and what he said? 102 00:05:10,050 --> 00:05:12,490 S2: And all of these trials will test it. And the 103 00:05:12,529 --> 00:05:15,330 S2: goal with every season of testing is to come out stronger. 104 00:05:15,690 --> 00:05:19,210 S2: And it's important to equip yourself with what it takes to, 105 00:05:19,250 --> 00:05:21,290 S2: to be that person that comes out stronger. 106 00:05:21,529 --> 00:05:25,890 S1: Yeah. But in my in my self and my selfishness, 107 00:05:26,210 --> 00:05:28,810 S1: my goal is to not be stronger. My goal is 108 00:05:28,810 --> 00:05:31,250 S1: to find some kind of comfort where I don't have to. 109 00:05:31,290 --> 00:05:34,370 S1: Because what happens to me and has happened through the 110 00:05:34,370 --> 00:05:37,809 S1: years has been this cascade. It's like, it's not just 111 00:05:37,810 --> 00:05:40,810 S1: one problem, it's one and another and another, and they 112 00:05:40,850 --> 00:05:43,450 S1: kind of pile up and you're just like, you're overwhelmed 113 00:05:43,450 --> 00:05:46,050 S1: by all this stuff. And if I follow Jesus, this 114 00:05:46,050 --> 00:05:48,130 S1: is not supposed to happen to me. I'm supposed to, 115 00:05:48,170 --> 00:05:50,330 S1: you know, supposed to be able to at least deal 116 00:05:50,330 --> 00:05:54,310 S1: with it and not feel overwhelmed, but that hasn't happened. 117 00:05:54,350 --> 00:05:57,630 S2: Yeah, yeah. You know, it's this whole expectation, like, I 118 00:05:57,630 --> 00:06:01,790 S2: think we are so heavily influenced by an American mindset 119 00:06:01,790 --> 00:06:04,790 S2: that says, if I put in the time, I'm going 120 00:06:04,830 --> 00:06:07,310 S2: to get the outcome that I deserve. You know, we 121 00:06:07,310 --> 00:06:09,310 S2: believe in it with work. We believe in it. Like 122 00:06:09,350 --> 00:06:11,150 S2: I'm Lebanese, I grew up in Lebanon, and this is 123 00:06:11,150 --> 00:06:13,630 S2: the essence of the American dream. If you come here 124 00:06:13,630 --> 00:06:15,790 S2: and you do what you, you know, you play your 125 00:06:15,790 --> 00:06:17,589 S2: cards right, you're going to be rich and famous, right? 126 00:06:17,630 --> 00:06:20,469 S2: Whatever definition of good outcome that a person might have, 127 00:06:20,470 --> 00:06:22,830 S2: or maybe that good outcome is a comfortable house in 128 00:06:22,830 --> 00:06:25,430 S2: the suburbs with kids that go to school and, you know, 129 00:06:25,470 --> 00:06:27,150 S2: have clothes on their back and all that. And it 130 00:06:27,150 --> 00:06:29,349 S2: might not work out this way. And I think if 131 00:06:29,350 --> 00:06:31,870 S2: you're a follower of Jesus, you feel more, I hate 132 00:06:31,870 --> 00:06:33,550 S2: to use the word, but I think there is a 133 00:06:33,550 --> 00:06:36,790 S2: sense of entitlement that now I know the Lord, you know, 134 00:06:36,830 --> 00:06:39,670 S2: he's besides the financial aspect of it. Like you think, well, 135 00:06:39,670 --> 00:06:41,250 S2: he's a, you know, owner of a cattle on a 136 00:06:41,250 --> 00:06:43,870 S2: thousand hills. He's promised me peace and rest and to 137 00:06:43,910 --> 00:06:46,510 S2: walk with me in the valley of the shadow of death. 138 00:06:46,510 --> 00:06:50,590 S2: But most times in the valley, we don't feel his 139 00:06:50,589 --> 00:06:53,450 S2: presence as much as we want to. And I mean, 140 00:06:53,650 --> 00:06:55,770 S2: to your point, I don't disagree. I mean, I think 141 00:06:55,770 --> 00:06:57,530 S2: when I said, you know, we're going to be stronger. 142 00:06:57,850 --> 00:06:59,930 S2: The point isn't that, oh, I'm going to be stronger 143 00:06:59,930 --> 00:07:02,970 S2: enough to no longer need him. The sort of this 144 00:07:02,970 --> 00:07:06,130 S2: paradox of the Christian life is, is that the weaker 145 00:07:06,130 --> 00:07:09,130 S2: you are, the more strong you are. But but it's 146 00:07:09,130 --> 00:07:11,770 S2: tuning in to where the source of your strength is. 147 00:07:12,370 --> 00:07:16,930 S2: And to me, that is a lifestyle that requires formation. 148 00:07:16,930 --> 00:07:20,490 S2: I think discipleship is spiritual formation, which is this process 149 00:07:20,490 --> 00:07:23,970 S2: of day in, day out, exposing yourself to what makes 150 00:07:23,970 --> 00:07:26,610 S2: you Christ like so that your knee jerk response is 151 00:07:26,610 --> 00:07:33,050 S2: not fear, anxiety, depression, disappointment, despair, quitting, being upset at 152 00:07:33,050 --> 00:07:35,210 S2: people who don't live up to what you thought they 153 00:07:35,210 --> 00:07:38,130 S2: would be. These are all parts of my story, but instead, 154 00:07:38,130 --> 00:07:41,850 S2: your knee jerk response is to fall onto the promises 155 00:07:41,850 --> 00:07:44,770 S2: of Christ faster. You know, most of us will wrestle 156 00:07:44,810 --> 00:07:47,650 S2: to fall on. He's with me always. And you know. 157 00:07:47,690 --> 00:07:49,770 S2: And when I'm feeling overwhelmed, I look to the hills. 158 00:07:49,770 --> 00:07:52,060 S2: From where comes my help? But. But we should tune 159 00:07:52,060 --> 00:07:56,300 S2: in there faster. The closer we get, the older we 160 00:07:56,300 --> 00:07:57,820 S2: get in our age with the Lord, and the closer 161 00:07:57,820 --> 00:08:00,300 S2: we get to him. And, you know, that is basically 162 00:08:00,300 --> 00:08:04,500 S2: the Christian life. And, um, I want to be strong 163 00:08:04,500 --> 00:08:07,900 S2: in Christ. And I've self-critically, I mean, most of the 164 00:08:07,900 --> 00:08:11,220 S2: stuff I write stems out of biographical, you know, story 165 00:08:11,220 --> 00:08:13,900 S2: of a person who's suffered a lot of disappointment, things 166 00:08:13,900 --> 00:08:15,940 S2: that I didn't think would happen or not happen. And, 167 00:08:16,220 --> 00:08:20,060 S2: and I've been honest about it, but I'm also humble 168 00:08:20,060 --> 00:08:22,660 S2: enough by God's grace to admit that the Lord has 169 00:08:22,660 --> 00:08:25,820 S2: met me in these places and is transforming me, continuing 170 00:08:25,820 --> 00:08:28,220 S2: to transform me into his image. And I've tried to 171 00:08:28,220 --> 00:08:30,980 S2: share my story in ways that are relatable with people, 172 00:08:30,980 --> 00:08:33,820 S2: so that they too, can learn from my experiences and 173 00:08:33,820 --> 00:08:34,740 S2: draw closer to him. 174 00:08:34,980 --> 00:08:36,460 S3: That is the real power. 175 00:08:36,940 --> 00:08:39,459 S1: Really. When you're when you're on the program, when I 176 00:08:39,500 --> 00:08:41,780 S1: hear you on the radio or when I read what 177 00:08:41,780 --> 00:08:47,260 S1: you're you've written, the real power is that, uh, we, we, 178 00:08:47,580 --> 00:08:49,280 S1: we feel like you're just sitting there with a cup 179 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,680 S1: of coffee, telling us your story and relating it in 180 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,120 S1: a way to say, oh, that's how I feel. I 181 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,520 S1: feel that same way. And that's all through this book. 182 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,160 S1: And I want you to talk to the younger generation today, 183 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,880 S1: as well as those in my generation. The book is 184 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,760 S1: titled All Your Life What It Really Means to Live 185 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:12,640 S1: for Jesus. It's our featured resource at the website chris.org. 186 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:17,640 S1: Chris Fabriclive dot ORG. By Doctor Lina Abujamra. You don't 187 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,600 S1: have to spell Abujamra in order to listen today. Just 188 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,600 S1: go to Chris Fabry live.org to see that book all 189 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,359 S1: your life. And there is more straight ahead on Moody Radio. 190 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:37,040 S3: It is always great to have Doctor. 191 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,880 S1: Lina Abujamra with us and she's back today. All your 192 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,840 S1: life is her latest. What it really means to live 193 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:48,900 S1: for Jesus. Why is living for Jesus or following Jesus. 194 00:09:49,420 --> 00:09:52,860 S1: Not easy. And I have this thing that I've said 195 00:09:52,860 --> 00:09:55,580 S1: through the years, Lina, and that is that I'm a 196 00:09:55,580 --> 00:09:58,380 S1: bigger sinner now than when I came to Christ. A 197 00:09:58,420 --> 00:10:01,620 S1: lot of years ago. And what I mean by that is, 198 00:10:01,620 --> 00:10:04,340 S1: I thought that I was a sinner back then. And, 199 00:10:04,380 --> 00:10:06,500 S1: you know, God saved me from that sin and began 200 00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:11,179 S1: this transformation, began this change. But but now I'm seeing 201 00:10:11,179 --> 00:10:14,980 S1: so much deeper, so many layers of the sin that 202 00:10:14,980 --> 00:10:19,580 S1: I never realized way back when that he keeps showing me. 203 00:10:20,020 --> 00:10:24,579 S1: And thankfully, it's not just my effort, my power to change. 204 00:10:24,780 --> 00:10:27,940 S1: It's him working on me. Talk about that. 205 00:10:28,940 --> 00:10:32,620 S2: Yeah, I completely agree. And I think you're accountable to 206 00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:34,660 S2: more to the more you're in Christ. I mean, just 207 00:10:34,660 --> 00:10:37,420 S2: simply by virtue of knowledge, right? I mean, when you 208 00:10:37,420 --> 00:10:40,780 S2: first get saved and like my story, like many other Christians, 209 00:10:40,780 --> 00:10:42,460 S2: we I grew up in a Christian home. You know, 210 00:10:42,500 --> 00:10:45,220 S2: I didn't have an Apostle Paul experience, so I wasn't 211 00:10:45,260 --> 00:10:48,480 S2: like murdering people when I came to Christ. And so 212 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,079 S2: there is a sort of self-righteousness that we aren't even 213 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:52,880 S2: aware of. Sort of like the older brother in the 214 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,800 S2: prodigal story that creeps in that only certain circumstances bring out. 215 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,640 S2: Like you, nobody knew the older prodigal was self-righteous until 216 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:02,400 S2: his brother came back. And then it was like all 217 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,720 S2: this hard stuff, you know? HERT stuff came out, I think. 218 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,640 S2: So there's that part that we think, well, I was 219 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,040 S2: young and I what kind of sin could I have done? 220 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,200 S2: And so there's a pattern of time. And so as 221 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,640 S2: you live your life and start experiencing real life situations, 222 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:17,880 S2: a lot of the, you know, hard sins, there is 223 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,480 S2: what Paul calls the respectable sins come up. You know, 224 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,760 S2: the pride, the entitlement, the jealousy, you know, stuff that 225 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,640 S2: we minimize sometimes in the Christian walk, but are huge 226 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,680 S2: and they're the root. In fact, many of those sins 227 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:31,120 S2: are what drive us to do the big, bad and 228 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,360 S2: ugly sins that we think of in this world, right? 229 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,920 S2: So there's that. But there's also you start going to church, 230 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,839 S2: you do Bible study, you read your Bible. So you 231 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,439 S2: become more knowledgeable of God's Word and of his goodness 232 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,240 S2: and faithfulness. And so you become even more accountable. And 233 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,700 S2: the Holy Spirit wants to purify you more. So there's 234 00:11:46,700 --> 00:11:49,860 S2: so many layers of it. I think an awareness grows of, 235 00:11:50,500 --> 00:11:53,380 S2: as I've grown older, of saying, wow, it's not just 236 00:11:53,380 --> 00:11:55,260 S2: the things that I did or didn't do. It's this 237 00:11:55,260 --> 00:11:57,940 S2: heart of mine that has been hanging on to the 238 00:11:57,940 --> 00:12:00,780 S2: sense that I am God, and God is working for me. 239 00:12:00,780 --> 00:12:02,620 S2: And I would never have said that in my 20s 240 00:12:02,620 --> 00:12:05,900 S2: and 30s. But the very disappointment in my life reveals 241 00:12:05,900 --> 00:12:09,660 S2: the fact that I've judged God's goodness. Because if I 242 00:12:09,660 --> 00:12:12,059 S2: wasn't judging his goodness, I wouldn't be disappointed. I would 243 00:12:12,059 --> 00:12:13,900 S2: know that the path I'm on is the best path 244 00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:16,220 S2: for me based on what God has for my life. 245 00:12:16,260 --> 00:12:19,220 S2: Do you see? And when you are slowing down enough 246 00:12:19,220 --> 00:12:21,100 S2: in your life or whatever happens, that might slow you 247 00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:23,900 S2: down to say, huh, maybe I am a little bit 248 00:12:23,900 --> 00:12:27,380 S2: more thinking that I run this show than I've let on, 249 00:12:27,380 --> 00:12:29,700 S2: and then there's a deep conviction that sets in and 250 00:12:29,980 --> 00:12:31,700 S2: a desire for repentance, I hope. 251 00:12:31,740 --> 00:12:34,700 S1: Did you hurt ankle help you with that in any way? 252 00:12:34,740 --> 00:12:35,780 S1: Did it slow you down? 253 00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:39,820 S2: I got bro, as my nephew would say, and my nieces, 254 00:12:39,860 --> 00:12:44,319 S2: bro or bro. Listen, I've got myself a scooter on Amazon. 255 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,040 S2: I could go around target. I mean, I could laugh 256 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,800 S2: my mom twice around target. I was going so fast. 257 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:51,600 S2: I had people stopping me, ask me if I'd go 258 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,760 S2: for the Olympics on that scooter. I couldn't bear weight 259 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,800 S2: for two weeks. It was horrible. But I'm back. 260 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,480 S1: Yes you are. Well, and we had Shawna bear with 261 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,640 S1: us yesterday and she had a fall from downstairs. It 262 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,160 S1: was her, the heel of her foot that, you know, 263 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:12,000 S1: was in pieces that for two weeks same thing couldn't, 264 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,240 S1: couldn't stand. So it's really interesting. And and, and to 265 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,000 S1: allow God access, you know, in the middle of that 266 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,720 S1: and to be able to say, God, do whatever you 267 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,400 S1: want here. I think that part of what you're saying 268 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,040 S1: in the book is when you allow God access to 269 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,080 S1: all of your life, it can be painful, there can 270 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,960 S1: be struggle, but you begin to find real life in 271 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,440 S1: the middle of that struggle. Is that true? 272 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,400 S2: Yes, 100% true. In fact, I think a message to 273 00:13:41,610 --> 00:13:45,690 S2: young Christians that doesn't tell that truth is a lie, 274 00:13:46,450 --> 00:13:52,090 S2: and it sets them up for deep pain and disappointment and, um, deconstruction. Ultimately, 275 00:13:52,090 --> 00:13:54,130 S2: when you wake up one day and go, oh, I'm 276 00:13:54,130 --> 00:13:56,810 S2: so disappointed. God, didn't you know I did my part? 277 00:13:56,929 --> 00:13:59,970 S2: And again, we're not so flagrant in saying it, but 278 00:14:00,010 --> 00:14:03,050 S2: our very heart attitudes when we wake up looking at 279 00:14:03,050 --> 00:14:06,489 S2: a broken marriage or a broken leg or a broken 280 00:14:06,929 --> 00:14:10,690 S2: heart or, or a mess of finances, whatever it is, 281 00:14:10,730 --> 00:14:12,650 S2: and you kind of go, I didn't see that coming. 282 00:14:12,650 --> 00:14:15,210 S2: I was expecting God to bail me. I gave faithfully 283 00:14:15,210 --> 00:14:17,050 S2: or I did, you know, and I think I, you know, 284 00:14:17,090 --> 00:14:18,809 S2: going back to what you said, like, did your ankle 285 00:14:19,210 --> 00:14:22,170 S2: slow you down to me? It hasn't been I don't 286 00:14:22,170 --> 00:14:25,450 S2: know that for me. Um, I haven't needed like people 287 00:14:25,450 --> 00:14:27,650 S2: always assume, oh, you function fast. You got to slow 288 00:14:27,650 --> 00:14:29,890 S2: down to hear the Lord. To me, it's not even 289 00:14:29,890 --> 00:14:32,130 S2: that because my brain processes the way that God has 290 00:14:32,130 --> 00:14:34,010 S2: created me to process. I'll tell you, what has slowed 291 00:14:34,010 --> 00:14:39,810 S2: me down is problems, disasters, pain. To me, that has 292 00:14:39,810 --> 00:14:43,430 S2: been the, the, the sort of the, the catalyst that 293 00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:46,430 S2: has slowed me down. I could walk on six feet 294 00:14:46,430 --> 00:14:50,150 S2: for all I care. And and I still would. That's 295 00:14:50,190 --> 00:14:53,910 S2: it's it's when I'm hurting. And I think about this 296 00:14:53,910 --> 00:14:55,910 S2: over and over again as a doctor. I mean, what 297 00:14:55,950 --> 00:14:59,150 S2: really gets our attention, what gets patients to listen. The 298 00:14:59,150 --> 00:15:00,870 S2: more they're in pain, the more they're open to what 299 00:15:00,870 --> 00:15:03,870 S2: you tell them, and the less the pain that exists, 300 00:15:03,870 --> 00:15:06,230 S2: the more they want their way and they're upset with you. 301 00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:07,790 S2: If you tell them what's right and they don't want 302 00:15:07,790 --> 00:15:09,550 S2: to hear it, and you sort of have to give 303 00:15:09,550 --> 00:15:11,590 S2: them space to get to the place where, you know, 304 00:15:11,630 --> 00:15:13,910 S2: that's how we are with the Lord. And I think, uh, 305 00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:17,070 S2: to that degree, I'm grateful for the lessons that have 306 00:15:17,070 --> 00:15:19,230 S2: come through pain. As much as I wish life was 307 00:15:19,230 --> 00:15:19,870 S2: pain free. 308 00:15:20,270 --> 00:15:24,110 S1: Yeah. Well, and isn't it we want we want the 309 00:15:24,110 --> 00:15:28,110 S1: quick fix, too. You know, I'd rather have surgery than 310 00:15:28,110 --> 00:15:32,030 S1: to change my diet, for example, you know? And I 311 00:15:32,030 --> 00:15:34,990 S1: need to lose some weight here, and. No, that's too hard. 312 00:15:34,990 --> 00:15:38,510 S1: I want somebody somebody to do it for me. Uh, 313 00:15:38,510 --> 00:15:41,090 S1: and there's a lot of stuff in in life that 314 00:15:41,090 --> 00:15:44,330 S1: can't be done for you. You have to make the choice. 315 00:15:44,610 --> 00:15:47,330 S1: And that is part of the, the, you know, the, 316 00:15:47,530 --> 00:15:51,570 S1: the difference in Christianity that is out there that says that, 317 00:15:51,610 --> 00:15:53,370 S1: you know, God's going to do this all for you, 318 00:15:53,410 --> 00:15:56,610 S1: you just stand back and let it happen. No, you 319 00:15:56,650 --> 00:16:01,410 S1: are a participant with in the process of that of 320 00:16:01,450 --> 00:16:06,290 S1: the Holy Spirit changing you, you have to participate with him. Right? 321 00:16:06,930 --> 00:16:09,290 S2: Well, the uncanny thing and why I think it's a 322 00:16:09,290 --> 00:16:14,530 S2: difficult conversation for Christians on a on a superficial level, 323 00:16:14,530 --> 00:16:18,050 S2: of course, everybody can theorize about this and spiritualize it. But, 324 00:16:18,090 --> 00:16:20,490 S2: you know, the reality is we know God could give 325 00:16:20,490 --> 00:16:22,570 S2: us a pain free life. Like, this is a classic 326 00:16:22,570 --> 00:16:25,810 S2: John the Baptist sitting in prison. He hears about Jesus 327 00:16:25,810 --> 00:16:29,610 S2: going around healing people and giving the lame or walking 328 00:16:29,610 --> 00:16:32,210 S2: the blind are seeing the prisoners are set free. I mean, 329 00:16:32,250 --> 00:16:34,970 S2: this is Isaiah 61. This is the prophecy Jesus is 330 00:16:35,170 --> 00:16:39,430 S2: is fulfilling. And John the Baptist, the guy who heralded 331 00:16:39,430 --> 00:16:42,110 S2: the coming of Christ, his cousin. I mean, on every level. 332 00:16:42,270 --> 00:16:44,270 S2: If anyone had an in with Jesus, it was him. 333 00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:46,790 S2: And he sends his disciples to Jesus. This, to me, 334 00:16:46,790 --> 00:16:49,150 S2: is one of the most powerful stories in Scripture. And 335 00:16:49,150 --> 00:16:51,990 S2: he's like, are you the one I. Are you the 336 00:16:51,990 --> 00:16:54,630 S2: one because you're the one who could fix this? Why 337 00:16:54,670 --> 00:16:56,790 S2: am I rotting in jail when you're going around touching 338 00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:59,110 S2: the hem of your robe and they're healing. And rather 339 00:16:59,110 --> 00:17:02,750 S2: than healing him, this is what mind boggles me. Jesus 340 00:17:02,750 --> 00:17:05,270 S2: just sends him a message. And it's like you just 341 00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:07,670 S2: tell John whoever's not offended by me, blessed are they. 342 00:17:07,830 --> 00:17:09,949 S2: And then he doesn't even tell that to John and 343 00:17:09,950 --> 00:17:12,189 S2: the disciples. Now he turns to the crowd. They're gone. 344 00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:14,270 S2: So they don't hear. They don't hear the fact that 345 00:17:14,270 --> 00:17:16,430 S2: he says, John's the number one guy. You know, he's 346 00:17:16,430 --> 00:17:18,190 S2: the greatest that ever lived in the kingdom, you know? 347 00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:21,190 S2: And I think the story has to leave us encouraged, 348 00:17:21,190 --> 00:17:24,149 S2: but speechless because a God who could take away our pain. 349 00:17:24,150 --> 00:17:26,630 S2: And lately, you know, we I've heard of so many 350 00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:28,910 S2: people who have been faithful followers of Jesus who have 351 00:17:28,910 --> 00:17:32,230 S2: suffered some immense health crises, some here, you know, Colin 352 00:17:32,230 --> 00:17:34,310 S2: Lambert released recently to be with the Lord and others. 353 00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:37,050 S2: Today I got a A Facebook update of a girl 354 00:17:37,050 --> 00:17:39,130 S2: that I went to college with who got this premature 355 00:17:39,170 --> 00:17:42,090 S2: cancer and is dying. She's in hospice my age. So many, 356 00:17:42,090 --> 00:17:44,570 S2: so many. And they follow the Lord. They love the Lord. 357 00:17:44,570 --> 00:17:47,250 S2: And why, Lord? Why do you allow this? And I 358 00:17:47,250 --> 00:17:50,090 S2: think we forget and and even when, you know, when 359 00:17:50,090 --> 00:17:52,290 S2: we remember, we sort of think we're going to be 360 00:17:52,290 --> 00:17:54,690 S2: the exception to the rule to pain. And, and we 361 00:17:54,730 --> 00:17:58,290 S2: sort of think, well, isn't. Where's that bo that beautiful story? 362 00:17:58,290 --> 00:18:01,570 S2: And it's coming. It's. And nothing has encouraged me more 363 00:18:01,770 --> 00:18:06,010 S2: in the social media world, which can be incredibly devastating 364 00:18:06,050 --> 00:18:08,810 S2: on a person's psyche. But nothing has encouraged me more 365 00:18:08,850 --> 00:18:11,770 S2: than seeing those followers of Jesus. People with kids with cancer, 366 00:18:11,810 --> 00:18:14,570 S2: people with tragedies that have come on and said, you know, 367 00:18:14,609 --> 00:18:17,010 S2: the Lord is still good. He's still faithful. And to me, 368 00:18:17,010 --> 00:18:18,970 S2: this is the essence of being a Christian is pointing 369 00:18:19,010 --> 00:18:21,490 S2: to a God who's bigger than our circumstances and our pain. 370 00:18:21,490 --> 00:18:24,730 S2: And we got to teach that younger generation those lessons 371 00:18:24,730 --> 00:18:27,930 S2: so that when they're going through pain, they process the loss. 372 00:18:27,930 --> 00:18:29,850 S2: They're still going to hurt. Doesn't mean the pain will 373 00:18:29,890 --> 00:18:33,129 S2: be gone. But but through the pain, there's an understanding 374 00:18:33,130 --> 00:18:36,300 S2: of a Savior who understands our pain, who sympathizes with us, 375 00:18:36,580 --> 00:18:38,899 S2: and who's closer to us in our pain than we imagine, 376 00:18:39,140 --> 00:18:40,460 S2: and who's going to get us through it. 377 00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:44,220 S1: The central question, I think, that you're answering and that 378 00:18:44,220 --> 00:18:46,500 S1: you're writing about, and that I wanted you to come 379 00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:49,540 S1: on and talk about today, is you write. What does 380 00:18:49,540 --> 00:18:52,660 S1: it take for faith to grow so that it truly 381 00:18:52,660 --> 00:18:57,420 S1: lasts for a lifetime? That's what you're answering through all 382 00:18:57,460 --> 00:19:00,260 S1: of the pages of all your life, right? 383 00:19:01,100 --> 00:19:03,540 S2: 100%. You know, I'm Gen X, right? Gen X is 384 00:19:03,540 --> 00:19:05,780 S2: like the middle aged people right now. And my mom 385 00:19:05,940 --> 00:19:08,060 S2: would be the boomer and then she's in her 80s. 386 00:19:08,060 --> 00:19:11,220 S2: So wherever you guys are, you probably know your category millennials. 387 00:19:11,220 --> 00:19:13,380 S2: And then the Gen Z's and then the Gen Y's 388 00:19:13,380 --> 00:19:16,060 S2: and my generation were the ones that grew up with 389 00:19:16,060 --> 00:19:17,459 S2: a lot of the rules. You know, we were in 390 00:19:17,460 --> 00:19:20,180 S2: the fundamentalist movement and, and, you know, there was just 391 00:19:20,180 --> 00:19:21,460 S2: a lot of that like, and. 392 00:19:21,740 --> 00:19:22,060 S1: They didn't. 393 00:19:22,060 --> 00:19:26,300 S2: Get us. Yeah. Basically that era. And I guess I 394 00:19:26,300 --> 00:19:30,620 S2: did forever. And, and then the millennials were really affected 395 00:19:30,619 --> 00:19:32,780 S2: by the way that we were because we were so 396 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:37,080 S2: formulaic and contractual. And the result with millennials is that 397 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,840 S2: they deconstructed like no other generation before. They grew up 398 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,480 S2: in the church watching the hypocrisy of my generation. And 399 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,280 S2: they said, no, I don't want this. And and they deconstructed. 400 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,560 S2: And many have the no longer call themselves Christians. Some, 401 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,600 S2: by God's grace, are still back in the faith and 402 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,119 S2: struggling to understand church world. And now comes Gen Z. 403 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,800 S2: And in order to give that younger generation a backbone 404 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,840 S2: so that when the bad things happen, especially when people 405 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,719 S2: disappoint them, I think I think this is important because 406 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,639 S2: we assume that all Christians are going to get it, 407 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,119 S2: and we don't. There's many people who are failing, and 408 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,480 S2: that's okay. The Lord will walk with every person in 409 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,320 S2: the path he has for them. But we have to 410 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,880 S2: give young adults a robust theology of what it means 411 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,960 S2: to be a Christian, with the ups and downs in 412 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,919 S2: every aspect, practical aspect of life, how you live, your calling, 413 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,439 S2: how you spend your money. Money has done more to 414 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,000 S2: harm the church than anything else. I think more than 415 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,080 S2: sexual scandal. I think money has destroyed churches. 416 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,580 S1: And why do you think that's true? The money thing. 417 00:20:34,980 --> 00:20:38,340 S2: Well, I mean, look, I think, first of all, this 418 00:20:38,340 --> 00:20:40,699 S2: is not surprising. I mean, the rich young ruler is 419 00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:43,220 S2: one of the most powerful New Testament stories. And it 420 00:20:43,220 --> 00:20:46,780 S2: basically the guy in the story does everything right, except 421 00:20:46,780 --> 00:20:49,100 S2: he has one sore spot and Jesus puts his finger 422 00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:50,820 S2: on it. He says, you want to be close to me. 423 00:20:50,820 --> 00:20:52,860 S2: You want to follow me, you give up. Okay? He says, 424 00:20:52,859 --> 00:20:54,980 S2: I've done everything. The young man says, I've done everything. 425 00:20:55,220 --> 00:20:57,220 S2: And Jesus says, okay, I got one thing I want 426 00:20:57,260 --> 00:20:58,859 S2: to tell you. Go sell what you have and come 427 00:20:58,859 --> 00:21:01,100 S2: follow me. And he can't. The guy. This is one 428 00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:03,540 S2: of the few instances in Scripture where a guy literally 429 00:21:03,540 --> 00:21:05,419 S2: wants to know the Lord and walks away. I mean, 430 00:21:05,420 --> 00:21:07,420 S2: there were a lot of people who hated Jesus and 431 00:21:07,420 --> 00:21:09,980 S2: he came eventually and killed him, but few who came 432 00:21:09,980 --> 00:21:12,340 S2: with interest, who walk away, who walked away without faith. 433 00:21:12,340 --> 00:21:15,379 S2: But here's that example. And I think it's because money 434 00:21:15,380 --> 00:21:17,940 S2: controls us in a way that very few other things do, 435 00:21:17,940 --> 00:21:23,619 S2: and we justify it. And we, uh, we have so many, 436 00:21:23,660 --> 00:21:27,420 S2: we've written theses in our brains on how to make 437 00:21:27,420 --> 00:21:31,320 S2: Christianity work with this idol of money here in the 438 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,520 S2: US more than any other country, I think because we 439 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,320 S2: have it and there's ways to make it. And now 440 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,679 S2: in 2026, even more so. My niece was telling me 441 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,520 S2: on social media, there's an influencer who in seven weeks 442 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,520 S2: made $7 million selling a class on how to create content. 443 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,720 S2: That's mind boggling. Sold the class for $300 a pop. 444 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,800 S2: We calculated that that's 25,000 people. And the point of 445 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,760 S2: creating content is to make money using the web, doing nothing, 446 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,320 S2: sitting on the computer, right? There's a there's a desire 447 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,720 S2: to be rich. And when it reaches the leadership of 448 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,120 S2: a church, it destroys a church culture, because the way 449 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,560 S2: of Christ is the opposite. You cannot serve God and money. 450 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,919 S2: And so money, of course, is a chapter that I 451 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,200 S2: write about, among other things. But so going back to 452 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,119 S2: every aspect of our life, the Lord wants to invade, 453 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,840 S2: not because he wants to control us per se, but 454 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,560 S2: because he knows that the only way for us to 455 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,080 S2: be truly happy and have peace in this world is 456 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,600 S2: when he comes in and takes over and takes us 457 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,080 S2: back to the way that we were created to be 458 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,939 S2: like him and to have him rule us from within, 459 00:22:29,940 --> 00:22:31,900 S2: so to speak, to have his rule in our heart. 460 00:22:31,940 --> 00:22:34,060 S2: And when we're free, we've all experienced it. When you 461 00:22:34,060 --> 00:22:37,340 S2: give joyfully and generously, we feel it. Letting go of 462 00:22:37,340 --> 00:22:39,619 S2: the things of this world that bind us. We feel 463 00:22:39,619 --> 00:22:42,380 S2: the prisons, the shackles come free. That's how we were 464 00:22:42,380 --> 00:22:45,139 S2: meant to live in the Christ like way of the kingdom. 465 00:22:45,540 --> 00:22:47,340 S2: And I think everything in our life is meant to 466 00:22:47,340 --> 00:22:49,780 S2: teach us that. And those lessons come at a cost, 467 00:22:49,780 --> 00:22:52,380 S2: but the cost is well worth it. If we find 468 00:22:52,420 --> 00:22:54,940 S2: a deeper connection with Christ at the other side of it. 469 00:22:55,500 --> 00:22:59,540 S1: That's Doctor Leana Abujamra all your life is our featured resource, 470 00:22:59,540 --> 00:23:02,660 S1: what it really means to live for Jesus. I asked 471 00:23:02,660 --> 00:23:05,500 S1: the question at the beginning of the program, and it's what's. 472 00:23:05,540 --> 00:23:07,980 S1: What trends are you in right now that makes it 473 00:23:07,980 --> 00:23:11,860 S1: hard to live for Jesus? Do you have a response 474 00:23:11,859 --> 00:23:13,540 S1: to that? I want to give you our phone number. 475 00:23:13,740 --> 00:23:16,379 S1: We'll open the phone lines. You can talk with you 476 00:23:16,380 --> 00:23:26,300 S1: can talk with Leana (877) 548-3675 is our number (877) 548-3675. And 477 00:23:26,340 --> 00:23:28,359 S1: I'd love to hear your response. We're going to take 478 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,320 S1: a break here in just a couple of minutes. But 479 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,760 S1: in the book you say we have an onboarding problem. 480 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,800 S1: What's what's our onboarding problem in the church? 481 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:42,119 S2: Yeah. Onboarding is sort of like the orientation process. We're 482 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,560 S2: so excited about baptism service, right? 400 people got baptized 483 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,440 S2: in our church. We take pictures of it, we report it. 484 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,679 S2: There's a revival happening. Everybody's pumped up. And then there's 485 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,960 S2: a huge disconnect between that and sort of discipleship. And 486 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,840 S2: a lot of that is, oh, here's a book. Go 487 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,000 S2: read it and you'll be close to Jesus. That's the onboarding. 488 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,080 S2: It's like, it's like, it's like those things you sign 489 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,520 S2: when you go to a new job and they send 490 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,000 S2: you a bunch of emails and you go through the 491 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,080 S2: forms and you just need to sign them to say 492 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,720 S2: that you read or the condo association book that you 493 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,600 S2: get when you buy a condo. Who reads that like 494 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,159 S2: no one, but you kind of figure, well, if I 495 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,760 S2: show up to church and if I read my Bible 496 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,840 S2: every day, it'll work out. And I think to me, 497 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,679 S2: that's an onboarding problem. Because when, when push comes to 498 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,000 S2: shove and problems start to happen and you remove something 499 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,930 S2: from your yard that you're not supposed to remove, and 500 00:24:26,930 --> 00:24:28,850 S2: they come at you with a fine and you're going, dude, 501 00:24:28,850 --> 00:24:31,530 S2: what happened? They're like, didn't you read? Didn't you? Didn't 502 00:24:31,530 --> 00:24:34,570 S2: you know how to respect your neighbors in this condo? And, 503 00:24:34,570 --> 00:24:36,850 S2: and on and on. And I think onboarding is simply 504 00:24:37,210 --> 00:24:40,609 S2: teaching the younger generation of Christians, whatever age they are. 505 00:24:40,650 --> 00:24:43,210 S2: What it really looks like to live for Jesus. Which again, 506 00:24:43,250 --> 00:24:44,810 S2: is why I wrote this book. 507 00:24:45,650 --> 00:24:48,730 S1: And you start with the heart. As a medical doctor, 508 00:24:48,730 --> 00:24:50,690 S1: I would think that you would start with something like 509 00:24:50,690 --> 00:24:53,290 S1: the heart, and then you go to the mind, and 510 00:24:53,290 --> 00:24:56,290 S1: then you talk about the church and you talk about relationships. 511 00:24:56,290 --> 00:24:59,610 S1: You talk about habits and emotions. I want to get 512 00:24:59,609 --> 00:25:01,610 S1: to at some point in the hour today, I want 513 00:25:01,650 --> 00:25:06,090 S1: to get to your calling and get your take on that, uh, influence. 514 00:25:06,130 --> 00:25:09,930 S1: We just talked about money and your future. That's Doctor 515 00:25:09,930 --> 00:25:13,330 S1: Leana Abujamra. You'll see our featured resource at the website, 516 00:25:13,330 --> 00:25:19,010 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. All your life, what it really means 517 00:25:19,010 --> 00:25:23,010 S1: to live for Jesus. And again, if this is touching 518 00:25:23,010 --> 00:25:25,950 S1: a nerve for you or you have somebody in your 519 00:25:25,950 --> 00:25:30,389 S1: life who has deconstructed. Or maybe you are feeling like, 520 00:25:30,390 --> 00:25:33,190 S1: I don't know about this. I think I'm thinking about 521 00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:41,230 S1: walking away. Let me let you talk with Lena today. (877) 548-3675. 522 00:25:41,270 --> 00:25:43,630 S1: What makes it really difficult for you to live for 523 00:25:43,630 --> 00:25:50,990 S1: Jesus right now? Eight. 775483675. More straight ahead on Moody Radio. 524 00:26:03,710 --> 00:26:07,790 S1: Doctor Lena Abujamra is a pediatric ER doctor. She practices 525 00:26:07,790 --> 00:26:14,430 S1: telemedicine now. Podcaster, conference speaker, founder of Living with Power Ministries, 526 00:26:14,710 --> 00:26:18,670 S1: host of today's single Christian author. She does it all. 527 00:26:19,070 --> 00:26:22,950 S1: And today we're talking about all your Life, a book 528 00:26:23,010 --> 00:26:28,010 S1: Subtitled What It Really Means to Live for Jesus. And, uh, 529 00:26:28,890 --> 00:26:32,090 S1: I have to say, I was thinking of because we 530 00:26:32,090 --> 00:26:33,729 S1: had a lot of kids and we went to the 531 00:26:33,730 --> 00:26:36,770 S1: doctor a lot, and they had a lot of amoxicillin 532 00:26:36,770 --> 00:26:41,370 S1: through the years. And I remember the doctor, his last 533 00:26:41,369 --> 00:26:44,290 S1: name was Akel. Doctor Akel, and he had a very 534 00:26:44,290 --> 00:26:48,290 S1: heavy accent accent. And we would walk in with the 535 00:26:48,290 --> 00:26:52,450 S1: kids with whatever child, and he would look straight at 536 00:26:52,450 --> 00:26:55,689 S1: the child and say, who's the biggest troublemaker? Who's the 537 00:26:55,690 --> 00:27:00,290 S1: biggest troublemaker? And he would say to us, the, you know, 538 00:27:00,330 --> 00:27:03,850 S1: the medical profession is moving away from hands on. And 539 00:27:03,850 --> 00:27:09,010 S1: he said, you can't you can't replace doing this. And 540 00:27:09,010 --> 00:27:12,490 S1: he would put his hand on the child's tummy and 541 00:27:12,490 --> 00:27:15,609 S1: then tap, you know, tap it and, and go all 542 00:27:15,609 --> 00:27:19,610 S1: around the body and listen to it. And I believed him, 543 00:27:19,609 --> 00:27:22,590 S1: and I still do. You know, there's something about hands on, 544 00:27:23,070 --> 00:27:27,429 S1: but the telemedicine thing has just exploded over the last 545 00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:31,989 S1: few years, and it seems to be you're able to 546 00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:35,470 S1: help even more people even quicker. Is that true? 547 00:27:36,190 --> 00:27:40,190 S2: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think, um, yeah, it's like 548 00:27:40,190 --> 00:27:43,070 S2: an urgent care triage basically. I mean, you there's some 549 00:27:43,070 --> 00:27:46,350 S2: pre-existing things that you cannot call about. I mean, I 550 00:27:46,350 --> 00:27:48,669 S2: think those are self, you know, obvious. You get a 551 00:27:48,670 --> 00:27:50,390 S2: gunshot wound. You're not going to cut a door, call 552 00:27:50,390 --> 00:27:53,190 S2: a doctor if you break a bone but on the phone. 553 00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:54,910 S2: But it is a I mean, it is a very 554 00:27:54,910 --> 00:27:57,709 S2: popular way to, to see through a lot of different things. 555 00:27:57,910 --> 00:28:00,910 S2: And honestly, like most people recognize now, even when you 556 00:28:00,910 --> 00:28:03,190 S2: go in, I mean, to, to your doctor's point, I 557 00:28:03,190 --> 00:28:05,990 S2: agree in principle, I'm 100% on that page. But I 558 00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:07,750 S2: think on the other hand, how often now do you 559 00:28:07,750 --> 00:28:09,590 S2: go to see your doctor and they barely touch you? 560 00:28:09,950 --> 00:28:13,590 S2: And yeah, medicine has changed, no doubt about it. But, um, 561 00:28:13,630 --> 00:28:15,590 S2: this was a gift for me. I didn't intend to 562 00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:18,510 S2: go into telehealth except that our ministry was growing. And 563 00:28:18,550 --> 00:28:20,590 S2: I'm telling you, the Lord provides in ways that you 564 00:28:20,590 --> 00:28:23,250 S2: never anticipate. And I was able to transition and be 565 00:28:23,250 --> 00:28:26,010 S2: able to sustain myself as a single person and do 566 00:28:26,010 --> 00:28:28,250 S2: what needs to be done for our ministry to be 567 00:28:28,250 --> 00:28:30,850 S2: in the spaces they're in. So I am deeply grateful 568 00:28:30,850 --> 00:28:33,690 S2: for technology and really for the Lord's timing and putting 569 00:28:33,690 --> 00:28:35,650 S2: me on this earth in the time that would work 570 00:28:35,650 --> 00:28:36,129 S2: for me. 571 00:28:36,850 --> 00:28:39,890 S1: You start in the book, you start with the heart. 572 00:28:39,890 --> 00:28:42,170 S1: And as I said, I expect, you know, a doctor 573 00:28:42,490 --> 00:28:45,010 S1: would start that. You start with the heart and you 574 00:28:45,010 --> 00:28:47,010 S1: go to the mind. Why do you do that? 575 00:28:48,210 --> 00:28:49,850 S2: You know, the mind and the heart are sort of 576 00:28:49,890 --> 00:28:51,930 S2: connected to a certain degree. But I think a lot 577 00:28:51,930 --> 00:28:54,130 S2: of us, you know, there's a certain aspect of Christianity 578 00:28:54,130 --> 00:28:56,250 S2: that's in the mind. You have to understand it. You 579 00:28:56,250 --> 00:28:59,170 S2: have to, um, you have to hear it and process 580 00:28:59,170 --> 00:29:01,970 S2: it in your mind. But it's, you know, even the 581 00:29:01,970 --> 00:29:03,970 S2: demons believe the Lord. So the mind in and of 582 00:29:03,970 --> 00:29:08,410 S2: itself can, can understand, but it's the heart that receives. 583 00:29:08,650 --> 00:29:12,209 S2: And so I think that if, you know, sometimes following Jesus, 584 00:29:12,250 --> 00:29:14,050 S2: you know, there's a lot of people who grow up 585 00:29:14,170 --> 00:29:16,410 S2: in a church, you know, showing up on Easter and, 586 00:29:16,450 --> 00:29:18,290 S2: you know, to ask them, what are you what's your 587 00:29:18,290 --> 00:29:21,540 S2: religious background? We're Christian, you know, sort of this cultural Christianity, 588 00:29:21,820 --> 00:29:23,940 S2: but so their mind might be on the page of, yeah, 589 00:29:23,980 --> 00:29:26,260 S2: I believe Jesus died on a cross, but there's no 590 00:29:26,660 --> 00:29:31,380 S2: reception in the heart. Personal conversion, as one would have it, 591 00:29:31,660 --> 00:29:34,180 S2: where there's a fact of, of, of what Christ did 592 00:29:34,220 --> 00:29:36,900 S2: on the cross, but there's a personal receiving of that. 593 00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:40,180 S2: And that I think happens at the heart level. And 594 00:29:40,180 --> 00:29:42,540 S2: when Jesus says, all of your heart, everything flows out 595 00:29:42,540 --> 00:29:44,860 S2: of that, which is the same way in life. I mean, 596 00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:48,260 S2: you can without the heart, you know, you can even be, 597 00:29:48,500 --> 00:29:50,060 S2: you know, you can sort of to a certain degree, 598 00:29:50,100 --> 00:29:52,260 S2: you can push the analogy to say you can even 599 00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:54,260 S2: have loss of your brain function. But if your heart 600 00:29:54,260 --> 00:29:57,620 S2: is still kicking, you're still alive. And, you know, and 601 00:29:57,620 --> 00:30:00,020 S2: I think, I think the heart is really the essence 602 00:30:00,020 --> 00:30:03,100 S2: of what it means to follow Jesus. But very closely 603 00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:04,740 S2: related to that is the mind. So I think that's 604 00:30:04,740 --> 00:30:07,980 S2: why that follows. And, and often, you know, again, how 605 00:30:07,980 --> 00:30:10,540 S2: you think about things shapes the way that you become. 606 00:30:10,820 --> 00:30:14,020 S2: And so it's both and, and, um, you know, it 607 00:30:14,020 --> 00:30:16,060 S2: starts with the heart. I really believe that with all 608 00:30:16,060 --> 00:30:16,820 S2: of my heart. 609 00:30:17,180 --> 00:30:20,200 S1: And I think that right there you've you've touched the 610 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:25,160 S1: nerve of what people struggle with older people or younger people. 611 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,479 S1: And that is why. Why am I in this? Is this, 612 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,680 S1: you know, a, a cosmetic change that God wants to 613 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,560 S1: kind of clean me up a little bit? Or is 614 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,200 S1: it more of the Lazarus kind of change where he's 615 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,160 S1: dead on the slab and his sisters are saying, behold, 616 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,400 S1: he stinketh, you know, don't go in there. And Jesus 617 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,040 S1: has something different in mind that a, they had a concept. 618 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,520 S1: And I think that calling us from death to life 619 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:57,440 S1: and understanding what that really means is foundational. 620 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,680 S2: 100%. Yeah. I mean, to be a Christian is to 621 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,920 S2: delight in the Lord. You know, it's not just a, 622 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,840 S2: a passport check. You know, you go through, you know, 623 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,200 S2: you're like going from, you know, from hell to heaven 624 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,480 S2: and you go through the passport control and they stamp 625 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,840 S2: your passport and then no, it's really a change conversion. 626 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,220 S2: There's a change in the dead bones of Ezekiel. You 627 00:31:18,260 --> 00:31:20,820 S2: go from being dead to being alive. What you were. 628 00:31:20,860 --> 00:31:24,060 S2: You're no longer are. And I think, um, I think 629 00:31:24,060 --> 00:31:26,380 S2: this is why when, you know, young people who follow 630 00:31:26,380 --> 00:31:28,860 S2: Jesus still struggle with a lot of anxiety and some 631 00:31:28,860 --> 00:31:31,300 S2: of those emotional heart issues, why it's so hard to 632 00:31:31,340 --> 00:31:34,060 S2: watch because you want to, you know, again, it becomes 633 00:31:34,060 --> 00:31:36,100 S2: confusing and say, well, I gave Jesus my heart. Why 634 00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:38,820 S2: am I still at the core of my being feeling 635 00:31:38,820 --> 00:31:41,140 S2: this unrest? And I think this is again, we talk 636 00:31:41,180 --> 00:31:43,420 S2: about onboarding. This is the process of growth that happens 637 00:31:43,420 --> 00:31:46,140 S2: in the Christian life to where you start to understand, 638 00:31:46,180 --> 00:31:48,780 S2: you know, first give him your heart. And, you know, 639 00:31:48,980 --> 00:31:51,660 S2: there's something that happens at the level of the divine. 640 00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:55,860 S2: God has to call you to salvation. But conversion is 641 00:31:55,860 --> 00:31:58,940 S2: my part in it of change turning from my sin 642 00:31:58,940 --> 00:32:02,100 S2: and my unbelief to the Lord. Um. Faith is trusting 643 00:32:02,100 --> 00:32:04,219 S2: in Christ alone for my salvation, and that has a 644 00:32:04,220 --> 00:32:06,380 S2: mind aspect to it. But conversion is sort of this 645 00:32:06,380 --> 00:32:07,940 S2: thing that happens where I say, okay, I'm no longer 646 00:32:07,940 --> 00:32:09,580 S2: going to be doing it my way. I'm going to 647 00:32:09,620 --> 00:32:11,500 S2: be doing the Lord's way. But there is a thing 648 00:32:11,500 --> 00:32:14,100 S2: that happens that's simply divine, where God takes us from, 649 00:32:14,140 --> 00:32:16,720 S2: you know, the kingdom or the domains of darkness into 650 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,400 S2: the kingdom of his light. And so this exactly is 651 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,360 S2: what should happen as you grow in discipleship and in 652 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,320 S2: spiritual formation. And you walk with the Lord, is to 653 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:29,080 S2: understand how to navigate that context of, of, of understanding. 654 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,040 S2: Why do I still sin if I'm a new person? 655 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,400 S2: You know, why, how, what needs to be surrendered if 656 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,240 S2: I've already given him my heart? And yet all of 657 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:36,920 S2: us right now, as I'm sitting here, there are things 658 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,280 S2: in my life that I need to be surrendering deeper 659 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,360 S2: to the Lord. And so this is if you're not 660 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,240 S2: getting if you're not learning these things in your small group, 661 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,640 S2: in your church and your mentorship relationships, then you need 662 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,680 S2: this book and you need to find someone older or 663 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,200 S2: younger than you and start going through this material with 664 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,360 S2: them so that you can understand those differences. 665 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,000 S1: Well, that's the thing, you know, the community, it's done 666 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,960 S1: in community, and you can't be isolated and have this 667 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,680 S1: kind of growth. We had a coach on a couple 668 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,680 S1: of weeks ago. I keep coming back to this, but 669 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,840 S1: Coach Breyfogle, who's out in Chandler, Arizona, walked out to 670 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,960 S1: the mound to talk to his pitcher, who was in 671 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:14,940 S1: a pickle. They were going to go to the. The 672 00:33:14,940 --> 00:33:17,500 S1: Little League World Series if they could win this game. 673 00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:20,300 S1: And he was trying to calm his his pitcher down 674 00:33:20,300 --> 00:33:24,660 S1: and basically said, uh, whether you strike the next six 675 00:33:24,660 --> 00:33:27,260 S1: guys out or walk the next six guys, Jesus is 676 00:33:27,260 --> 00:33:31,500 S1: still Lord, you know, and and the ESPN caught him 677 00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:34,060 S1: saying this and there was all this kerfuffle, people saying 678 00:33:34,060 --> 00:33:36,100 S1: that was great. And other people saying that was terrible. 679 00:33:36,140 --> 00:33:40,300 S1: He just uses proselytizing. So we got the coach on 680 00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:43,620 S1: and he in the middle of, you know, telling this story. 681 00:33:43,660 --> 00:33:45,739 S1: He said, you should have heard me. He should have 682 00:33:45,740 --> 00:33:47,900 S1: heard me a few years ago. He said, I've only 683 00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:51,780 S1: been a Christian for a few years and my language 684 00:33:51,780 --> 00:33:54,220 S1: was awful. I couldn't talk, I could say a sentence 685 00:33:54,220 --> 00:33:57,140 S1: without cursing. I was addicted to this and this, and 686 00:33:57,140 --> 00:33:59,180 S1: I told him after the program, I said, you know 687 00:33:59,220 --> 00:34:02,500 S1: what you shared about the change that you have seen 688 00:34:02,500 --> 00:34:05,020 S1: in your own life is going to give somebody else 689 00:34:05,020 --> 00:34:06,780 S1: a little bit of the freedom, a little of the 690 00:34:06,780 --> 00:34:10,219 S1: vision of the freedom, but it's exactly what you're talking about. 691 00:34:10,460 --> 00:34:13,270 S1: And that is he didn't, you know, work to. I 692 00:34:13,310 --> 00:34:15,150 S1: can't say that word. Okay. I'm not going to say 693 00:34:15,150 --> 00:34:19,110 S1: this word today. He's like, no, he gave. He surrendered. 694 00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:22,630 S1: And when you surrender and allow God to come in, 695 00:34:22,830 --> 00:34:26,270 S1: he begins to do this work. I'm sure that, you know, 696 00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:28,549 S1: with the different addictions that he had, there was work 697 00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:32,790 S1: that he did, but especially with that, with that language thing, 698 00:34:32,790 --> 00:34:36,590 S1: it's like God was doing this on the inside of him. 699 00:34:36,870 --> 00:34:40,310 S1: So this is not cosmetic change that you're talking about. 700 00:34:40,310 --> 00:34:43,430 S1: This is deep seated transformation. 701 00:34:44,390 --> 00:34:45,870 S2: I mean, one of the things you said, and I 702 00:34:45,870 --> 00:34:48,150 S2: believe it's to be true and it is the importance 703 00:34:48,150 --> 00:34:51,630 S2: of community. And I think, um, finally, the third chapter 704 00:34:51,630 --> 00:34:54,870 S2: in my book is not on your emotions. This was 705 00:34:54,870 --> 00:34:58,710 S2: originally my intent and the publisher wisely suggested and wanted 706 00:34:58,710 --> 00:35:02,590 S2: me to consider moving your church up to that location 707 00:35:02,590 --> 00:35:04,790 S2: as the third chapter. And I think this is very 708 00:35:04,790 --> 00:35:07,270 S2: interesting because we are living in an era where we 709 00:35:07,270 --> 00:35:10,910 S2: have convinced ourselves of, you know, the, the, the moderate 710 00:35:10,950 --> 00:35:13,810 S2: need for church. Like everybody wouldn't say, oh, church is bad, 711 00:35:13,810 --> 00:35:16,690 S2: but we kind of consider it as non-essential. Like you 712 00:35:16,690 --> 00:35:19,330 S2: can be discipled without a church. And so we think 713 00:35:19,330 --> 00:35:22,049 S2: that consuming Christian content on social media is the same 714 00:35:22,050 --> 00:35:26,089 S2: as discipleship. And that's not true. Honestly, you can doomscroll 715 00:35:26,090 --> 00:35:28,450 S2: Christian content till the cows come home and you might 716 00:35:28,450 --> 00:35:31,890 S2: still be dealing with sin. You've not repented of, you know, ways, 717 00:35:31,930 --> 00:35:34,490 S2: habits that need to be changing in your life. Um, 718 00:35:34,530 --> 00:35:36,930 S2: the need to sit down with someone and really do 719 00:35:36,930 --> 00:35:41,010 S2: the work of spiritual formation. I use that term. It means, 720 00:35:41,050 --> 00:35:42,970 S2: you know, sort of looking into your life as to 721 00:35:43,010 --> 00:35:45,370 S2: the things that need to change, things that sometimes people 722 00:35:45,370 --> 00:35:47,730 S2: need to tell you are observing in your life the 723 00:35:47,730 --> 00:35:52,090 S2: humility to receive them, living under authority, all those things. And, um, man, 724 00:35:52,090 --> 00:35:54,569 S2: it's a lot easier to be an individual Christian than 725 00:35:54,570 --> 00:35:57,969 S2: to be a corporate church Christian. And so it's, I 726 00:35:57,969 --> 00:36:01,649 S2: don't think it's any surprise that, um, I don't think 727 00:36:01,650 --> 00:36:06,129 S2: it's any surprise that in 2026, we are wrestling with 728 00:36:06,130 --> 00:36:08,290 S2: this whole concept of, I can be a good Christian 729 00:36:08,290 --> 00:36:10,589 S2: without the local church. This is where Satan wants us 730 00:36:10,590 --> 00:36:13,430 S2: to be, and I think that's impossible to sustain over time. 731 00:36:13,830 --> 00:36:17,190 S1: Yeah, that's Doctor Lena Abujamra. All your life, what it 732 00:36:17,230 --> 00:36:20,190 S1: really means to live for Jesus is our featured resource. 733 00:36:20,190 --> 00:36:25,830 S1: Just go to the website. Chris Fabry live.org. Chris Fabry live.org. 734 00:36:27,230 --> 00:36:30,510 S1: I've got a business owner who wants to talk with Lena, 735 00:36:30,510 --> 00:36:33,670 S1: and we'll do that coming up straight ahead. Again, the website, 736 00:36:33,670 --> 00:36:47,589 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. More straight ahead on Moody Radio. If 737 00:36:47,590 --> 00:36:50,750 S1: you have someone younger in your life who's interested in 738 00:36:50,750 --> 00:36:54,350 S1: Christianity and wants to live for Jesus but doesn't know 739 00:36:54,350 --> 00:36:57,750 S1: what that means, this would be a great resource to 740 00:36:57,790 --> 00:36:59,989 S1: get to give to them. You read it as well. 741 00:37:00,030 --> 00:37:03,110 S1: Maybe get into a small group together. It's titled All 742 00:37:03,110 --> 00:37:06,270 S1: Your Life. What It Really Means to Live for Jesus 743 00:37:06,270 --> 00:37:10,610 S1: by Doctor Lena Abujamra. and Brandon's in Tampa, Florida. Brandon, 744 00:37:10,610 --> 00:37:11,690 S1: why did you call today? 745 00:37:12,610 --> 00:37:15,930 S4: Oh, hey, Chris, thank you for having me on. This is, uh, 746 00:37:16,090 --> 00:37:19,570 S4: it really struck a nerve. Uh, y'all talking about the book? 747 00:37:19,610 --> 00:37:23,210 S4: I'm currently going through something like this. Uh, the past 748 00:37:23,570 --> 00:37:27,730 S4: two months, God has been, uh, talking to me, and, um. 749 00:37:27,730 --> 00:37:32,170 S4: I have pursued business my whole life, and, um, I've 750 00:37:32,610 --> 00:37:36,490 S4: tried straying from his path, and he brings me right back. 751 00:37:36,530 --> 00:37:41,370 S4: His faithfulness is always, um, good. And, uh, I it's 752 00:37:41,370 --> 00:37:45,130 S4: really hard in this period of time for me, um, 753 00:37:45,170 --> 00:37:48,089 S4: my body, uh, my, I have a physical job and 754 00:37:48,090 --> 00:37:54,170 S4: my body is, um, not tolerating the physicalness anymore. Uh, 755 00:37:54,170 --> 00:37:57,770 S4: so I've tried, uh, venturing on to a different business 756 00:37:57,770 --> 00:38:00,650 S4: just for God to bring me to my Isaac story, 757 00:38:00,690 --> 00:38:04,049 S4: just like Abraham. Um, and, uh, it's not really what 758 00:38:04,050 --> 00:38:06,210 S4: I wanted to hear, but he told me to offer 759 00:38:06,210 --> 00:38:10,870 S4: up my Isaac, which was this new business. And, um, I, 760 00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:14,150 S4: I guess what I had done was put my hope 761 00:38:14,310 --> 00:38:18,030 S4: in the business rather than putting my hope in what 762 00:38:18,070 --> 00:38:22,109 S4: God's plans for me were. And so it's been, it's 763 00:38:22,110 --> 00:38:27,310 S4: been difficult to tread through the, um, the. 764 00:38:29,590 --> 00:38:30,670 S1: The disappointment. 765 00:38:30,710 --> 00:38:34,270 S4: The difficulties that it's. Yeah. Yes. Disappointment is a good 766 00:38:34,270 --> 00:38:35,110 S4: word for it. Yes. 767 00:38:35,150 --> 00:38:37,110 S5: Well, because you, you this. 768 00:38:37,350 --> 00:38:39,790 S1: And when you were younger, see if I'm right, when 769 00:38:39,790 --> 00:38:42,190 S1: you were younger, you could just get up earlier and 770 00:38:42,190 --> 00:38:44,390 S1: do more and you could have the strength to do that. 771 00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:46,750 S1: And I'll just work harder and I work longer. And 772 00:38:46,750 --> 00:38:48,190 S1: you can't do that, right? 773 00:38:48,790 --> 00:38:50,870 S4: Yeah, yeah, there it is. 774 00:38:51,070 --> 00:38:54,270 S1: And your knees and your back and everything. Okay. Lena, 775 00:38:54,270 --> 00:38:55,790 S1: what do you say to Brandon? 776 00:38:55,830 --> 00:38:59,070 S2: Well, I think there's also this fear that is underneath, 777 00:38:59,070 --> 00:39:01,630 S2: which is, is God going to be trustworthy if I 778 00:39:01,670 --> 00:39:03,950 S2: give him this? And again, you go back to the 779 00:39:03,989 --> 00:39:06,799 S2: sort of heart and mind thing Intellectually, you might know 780 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,759 S2: the verse, you might know the passage, but. And you 781 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,960 S2: have to continue to, to preach yourself that passage because 782 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,279 S2: that is where God wants to meet you. He is 783 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,839 S2: going to sustain you. He is your security. It's I 784 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,640 S2: don't know why I understand your concern, sir. And I 785 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,759 S2: feel as a single woman who is working now and, 786 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:26,439 S2: you know, sort of it's so easy to become so 787 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,000 S2: reliant on, oh, my security if I now I'm in 788 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:30,600 S2: this age group where I need to save for the 789 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,520 S2: future and what's going to happen to me if I 790 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,359 S2: don't have enough and all this, it can take over 791 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,040 S2: your life. And the greatest gift God could give us 792 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,080 S2: is to free us from that, to get to a 793 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:40,800 S2: place where we do put it on the altar, knowing 794 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,680 S2: that he is going to be trustworthy. And as I 795 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,839 S2: think this decision that you're making, if I can speak 796 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,239 S2: confirmation into your life, is to say, I don't think 797 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,239 S2: you're ever going to regret it. Jesus is so well 798 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,879 S2: worth it. But there's a jumping off a cliff. Sort of. 799 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,120 S2: Is he is he going to meet me there? And 800 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,359 S2: the true assurance and we have so many examples in 801 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,719 S2: Scripture in His Word to sustain it, to say, yes, 802 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,040 S2: he's going to come through for you. So don't look back. 803 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,420 S2: Don't regret it. Look at this show as a confirmation 804 00:40:05,420 --> 00:40:07,380 S2: that what you're doing is exactly what he wants you 805 00:40:07,380 --> 00:40:09,419 S2: to do, and he's going to prove himself faithful over 806 00:40:09,420 --> 00:40:10,140 S2: and over again. 807 00:40:10,620 --> 00:40:14,100 S1: I'm glad you got through. Brandon. Talk to singles. Lena. 808 00:40:14,100 --> 00:40:17,299 S1: Who have, you know, maybe they're in their 30s and 809 00:40:17,300 --> 00:40:19,460 S1: they thought in their 20s by now I'm going to 810 00:40:19,460 --> 00:40:21,779 S1: be or in their 40s and. But now and now 811 00:40:21,780 --> 00:40:24,260 S1: it's over. You know, I feel like my life is over. 812 00:40:24,260 --> 00:40:28,540 S1: And that's not true. That's a lie from the enemy. Um, 813 00:40:28,660 --> 00:40:31,820 S1: but but what are singles going through that you really 814 00:40:31,820 --> 00:40:33,180 S1: want to talk about today? 815 00:40:34,020 --> 00:40:37,860 S2: Well, I think a single person, you know, suffers through 816 00:40:37,860 --> 00:40:40,660 S2: a lot of death of dreams. Like there's a lot 817 00:40:40,660 --> 00:40:42,940 S2: of dreams that died. The longer you wait to be single, 818 00:40:42,940 --> 00:40:45,420 S2: especially I think women, as they get into a certain 819 00:40:45,420 --> 00:40:47,180 S2: age where they can't have kids. I mean, that's a 820 00:40:47,180 --> 00:40:49,900 S2: sure death, right? It's like there's a practical nature of it. 821 00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:51,700 S2: And then you start watching your friends who have kids 822 00:40:51,700 --> 00:40:53,940 S2: and then the grandkids and, you know, you sort of 823 00:40:53,980 --> 00:40:55,819 S2: like you have no kids that are going to have 824 00:40:55,860 --> 00:41:00,820 S2: graduations or, or, um, reunions or whatever, like marriages, whatever. 825 00:41:00,820 --> 00:41:03,520 S2: The grandkids, all the things that, that people have in 826 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,640 S2: their marriage life. And, you know, you can feel so 827 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,759 S2: left out of society, you know. And I think that 828 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,439 S2: is a lie. And I think there's a point when 829 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,880 S2: you cross that, that transition where you really realize it's 830 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:16,560 S2: not as big a deal as it used to be 831 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,440 S2: in your 40s. And, you know, I'm mid 50s now, 832 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,960 S2: you know, 5054. And so I don't know that there 833 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,480 S2: are some of the things matter as much to me 834 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,280 S2: now as they did before, but other things do matter 835 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,720 S2: and still, and I think, um, I think the issue 836 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,840 S2: isn't whether you're single or married or have that person 837 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,359 S2: or have kids. I think it goes back to sort 838 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,160 S2: of what Brandon was bringing, which is, do you trust 839 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,080 S2: God with your future? Are you trusting God with your loneliness? 840 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,839 S2: It comes back to the heart. This is why I 841 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,839 S2: started with that chapter. In every chapter I wrote in 842 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,320 S2: the book I go back to, it's a heart issue. 843 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,040 S2: It's not a circumstantial. It's not a demographic. It's not 844 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,919 S2: a relationship thing. All of these things are riches and 845 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,719 S2: blessings that God gives us to enrich our life. And 846 00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:58,839 S2: there's certainly a lot of blessings in singleness. I've written 847 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:00,960 S2: about it. I've talked about it. You can get other 848 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,460 S2: books that are I've written on singleness. But at the 849 00:42:03,460 --> 00:42:05,339 S2: heart of it is do you trust God? Do you 850 00:42:05,340 --> 00:42:08,460 S2: believe that he'll be faithful? And every trial for the single. 851 00:42:08,460 --> 00:42:10,940 S2: Right now, singleness might be the trial. And that's the 852 00:42:10,940 --> 00:42:13,340 S2: platform that God has given you to prove his faithfulness 853 00:42:13,380 --> 00:42:15,540 S2: to you and for you to get stronger in your 854 00:42:15,540 --> 00:42:17,420 S2: dependence on him. Yeah. 855 00:42:17,940 --> 00:42:18,460 S5: What about. 856 00:42:18,460 --> 00:42:21,500 S1: Calling? There's a there's a chapter in here about calling. 857 00:42:21,580 --> 00:42:25,140 S1: Talk to the person who's listening, who says, I, I 858 00:42:25,380 --> 00:42:29,540 S1: don't feel like what I'm doing has real meaning in 859 00:42:29,540 --> 00:42:32,140 S1: my life. And I'm listening for this calling and, and 860 00:42:32,140 --> 00:42:33,260 S1: it's just not there. 861 00:42:34,260 --> 00:42:38,060 S2: Well, I think we misconstrue calling. And I think our 862 00:42:38,060 --> 00:42:42,060 S2: world right now sort of has us understanding certain things 863 00:42:42,060 --> 00:42:44,939 S2: about calling that may or may not be biblical, like, like, 864 00:42:44,980 --> 00:42:47,300 S2: and I would connect calling to a certain degree to 865 00:42:47,300 --> 00:42:50,540 S2: a platform. Like we have this idea now that, you know, 866 00:42:50,580 --> 00:42:53,180 S2: our calling has to be something sexy and big and 867 00:42:53,180 --> 00:42:56,339 S2: followers and all the things and, and, and I or 868 00:42:56,500 --> 00:42:59,339 S2: Christian like, I think the church itself can be guilty of, 869 00:42:59,340 --> 00:43:01,720 S2: of like leaders in the church can be guilty of painting, 870 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,840 S2: calling as Christian ministry. If you're doing something with Jesus 871 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,560 S2: tagged on it, you know, then then that's calling. You know, 872 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,399 S2: if you become a missionary, that's calling, if you're working 873 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,319 S2: in the church, if you have a Christian platform. And 874 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,200 S2: so there's an effort, almost a competition I see on 875 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,279 S2: social media who's going to be the most Christian, who's 876 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,320 S2: going to drop more verses and praise the Lord? Hashtags. And, 877 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,600 S2: and I think calling is much more basic daily life, 878 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,320 S2: mundane routine than we give it credit to be. Yes, 879 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,080 S2: God has a plan for how you know, he has 880 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,799 S2: works that he's created before the creation of this world 881 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,640 S2: that he has for each one of us. But I 882 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,520 S2: think calling is what you do in different seasons of life. 883 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,279 S2: It can manifest itself through different opportunities. Like right now, 884 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,720 S2: my calling is to my mother. I believe that without 885 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:44,840 S2: a question in my life, even though I'm a doctor, 886 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,960 S2: my calling is, to a certain degree, to my patients. 887 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:48,960 S2: I've had a calling where I've been, you know, a 888 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,919 S2: blessing to singles right now, honestly, my calling is to 889 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,040 S2: minister to my mother in the best way that I can. 890 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,120 S2: So call you know, the calling ultimately is what you 891 00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,739 S2: do for the Lord, how you do it for the Lord, 892 00:43:59,739 --> 00:44:02,180 S2: and it can manifest itself through different assignments, I guess 893 00:44:02,219 --> 00:44:03,379 S2: is a better way to say it. 894 00:44:03,660 --> 00:44:06,379 S1: With all your heart and do whatever you do. Work 895 00:44:06,380 --> 00:44:08,780 S1: at it with all your heart. And I was thinking 896 00:44:08,780 --> 00:44:11,740 S1: of your mom as you were saying that. It's like, no, 897 00:44:11,739 --> 00:44:13,620 S1: this is and there's a lot of a lot of 898 00:44:13,620 --> 00:44:16,060 S1: callings that you have on your life and the humanitarian 899 00:44:16,060 --> 00:44:18,700 S1: aid that you do and around the, around the world. 900 00:44:18,980 --> 00:44:21,620 S1: But right now, the main focus is I want to 901 00:44:21,620 --> 00:44:25,299 S1: be the best, uh, called to, to take care of 902 00:44:25,300 --> 00:44:28,100 S1: my mom in the best way possible. Right? 903 00:44:28,140 --> 00:44:30,540 S2: And if I may say one more thing, the greatest 904 00:44:30,540 --> 00:44:33,259 S2: obstacle to you living your present calling to where you 905 00:44:33,260 --> 00:44:35,060 S2: are right now is where God has you and your calling. 906 00:44:35,060 --> 00:44:38,180 S2: And the two things, hands down in my mind, that 907 00:44:38,700 --> 00:44:43,980 S2: threaten your calling, are complaining and comparing, complaining about what 908 00:44:43,980 --> 00:44:46,299 S2: you're doing. Sort of like, I don't like it. I 909 00:44:46,300 --> 00:44:49,180 S2: wish I was doing something else comparing why isn't it 910 00:44:49,180 --> 00:44:52,660 S2: like there's complaining and comparing? If you could surrender those 911 00:44:52,660 --> 00:44:55,100 S2: to the Lord, repent of them, and start to see 912 00:44:55,140 --> 00:44:57,180 S2: gratitude in the midst of what God has put before 913 00:44:57,180 --> 00:45:00,230 S2: you to do today. Man, there's such freedom and joy there. 914 00:45:00,350 --> 00:45:03,189 S1: Okay, so that is right there is this. That's that's 915 00:45:03,230 --> 00:45:05,270 S1: enough right there for me to work on all day. 916 00:45:05,550 --> 00:45:09,950 S1: Come complaining and comparing. You can't be thankful if you're 917 00:45:09,950 --> 00:45:14,350 S1: complaining and comparing. It takes all your energy, doesn't it? 918 00:45:15,430 --> 00:45:18,549 S2: You're zapped. There's nothing left, and you're miserable at it. 919 00:45:18,550 --> 00:45:21,430 S2: And I'm telling you, and you're displeasing the Lord. More importantly, 920 00:45:21,430 --> 00:45:23,230 S2: and I think for us to please the Lord is 921 00:45:23,230 --> 00:45:25,230 S2: to accept where he's put us or surrender it to 922 00:45:25,230 --> 00:45:26,870 S2: the Lord, even if it doesn't look like what we 923 00:45:26,870 --> 00:45:29,630 S2: thought it would look a day ago, a year ago. 924 00:45:29,830 --> 00:45:32,270 S2: This is where you are today, as Elizabeth Elliot or 925 00:45:32,310 --> 00:45:34,590 S2: Jim Elliot used to say, be where you are. 926 00:45:36,070 --> 00:45:40,709 S1: I, uh, I excerpted from this book where Lena says, 927 00:45:40,710 --> 00:45:43,230 S1: my goal in writing this is to help you grow 928 00:45:43,230 --> 00:45:47,150 S1: old with Jesus. And really that that is, that is 929 00:45:47,150 --> 00:45:49,509 S1: the heart of what you're trying to do for that 930 00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:52,790 S1: younger generation. And you did a great job with it. 931 00:45:52,830 --> 00:45:57,049 S1: It's so engaging from your own life and some of 932 00:45:57,050 --> 00:45:59,730 S1: the experiences, you're sharing that with them, and I think 933 00:45:59,730 --> 00:46:02,250 S1: it's going to make a difference. It's made a difference 934 00:46:02,250 --> 00:46:04,490 S1: here today. Thank you for being with us. 935 00:46:05,210 --> 00:46:07,170 S2: Thank you for having me on, Chris. It's always so 936 00:46:07,170 --> 00:46:08,089 S2: fun to be with you. 937 00:46:08,930 --> 00:46:14,010 S1: All your life. Remember those three words? And again, at 938 00:46:14,010 --> 00:46:16,129 S1: any age, you can read this and get a lot 939 00:46:16,170 --> 00:46:19,570 S1: out of it. But especially that younger generation that's asking 940 00:46:19,570 --> 00:46:22,770 S1: the really hard questions about what does it mean to 941 00:46:22,810 --> 00:46:26,090 S1: live for Jesus? What does it mean to follow him? 942 00:46:26,090 --> 00:46:29,930 S1: What does that look like all your life? Featured resource 943 00:46:29,930 --> 00:46:38,530 S1: at Chris live.org, chris.org. We're going to continue this conversation 944 00:46:38,530 --> 00:46:42,450 S1: tomorrow with Doctor Chris Thurman with a similar topic, and 945 00:46:42,450 --> 00:46:44,810 S1: you'll hear it right here on Chris Fabry live production 946 00:46:44,810 --> 00:46:48,290 S1: of Moody Radio, a Ministry of Moody Bible Institute.