S1: For 259 days. They witnessed abuse, torture and execution in
S1: Iran's most infamous prison. Then they were released. Where would
S1: God lead them next? That's our story coming up. Hey,
S1: welcome to the land and the book from Moody Radio.
S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer is our host, and I'm John Geiger.
S1: We are both just back from a trip to Israel.
S1: And in this opening segment, we're going to bring you
S1: the stories behind the headlines in the Middle East. First, though,
S1: Passover is soon upon us, and one of the traditional
S1: Passover questions is what makes this night different from all others?
S1: Passover just an important biblical holiday that has great meaning
S1: for both Jewish people and believers in Jesus. So this
S1: is a really important question to ask. It is John.
S1: In fact, if people want to learn more about what
S1: makes Passover so special, our friends at Life and Messiah
S1: are offering to email a free copy of their Messianic
S1: Passover Haggadah. This booklet will lead you through the celebration
S1: of Passover to see the rich connections to Jesus, our Messiah,
S1: and the Last Supper. You'll also receive a link for
S1: an interactive Passover Seder video with the Haggadah and video.
S1: You can celebrate Passover this year with your family and friends.
S1: Now to get this free offer, just go to Life
S1: in Messiah org and click on the Moody Radio button
S1: to find out more and request your copy. That's life
S1: in messiah.org. And now a look at current events. Ramadan
S1: is half over and the situation in Jerusalem has remained
S1: relatively quiet, as has the situation in Gaza. Does this
S1: suggest a period of quiet is starting to take hold,
S1: or has this simply been the calm before the storm? Well,
S1: the situation with Ramadan it's just still tense. There have
S1: been several attempted disturbances that have been handled by security forces.
S1: It's interesting that Ramadan this year coincides with Purim, which
S1: is this weekend, and that's another past time of national
S1: threat and victory for the Jewish people. Now Hamas is
S1: encouraging the Palestinians to cause problems, and Israel won't breathe
S1: easier until Ramadan ends on April 9th, Israel continues to
S1: threaten to enter Rafah, which is the final Hamas stronghold
S1: in Gaza. But that could be several weeks off if
S1: it's going to happen. And certainly the US and the
S1: West are pressuring Israel not to attack the situation on
S1: the border with Lebanon. Well, that remains tense as well.
S1: Both Israel and Hezbollah threatened to escalate the conflict, but
S1: at least so far, each has refrained from launching an
S1: all out attack. Iran is apparently concerned about being drawn
S1: into the conflict, and the head of Hezbollah assured Iran
S1: that they can fight Israel alone if war breaks out. Now,
S1: that's a hollow promise. If war between Israel and Hezbollah
S1: breaks out, Israel will try to destroy Hezbollah's military capability.
S1: Will Iran stay on the sidelines and allow that to happen?
S1: Or even more significantly, would Israel or the United States
S1: use a war with Hezbollah as an excuse to strike
S1: Iran's nuclear facilities? Well, that's Iran's fear. In spite of
S1: any promises made by Hezbollah. There's also talk of a
S1: temporary ceasefire between Israel and Hamas that would result in
S1: the release of up to 40 more hostages in exchange
S1: for the release of hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. However, until
S1: any kind of a deal is finalized and actually set
S1: in motion, nothing is certain in that regard. Well, the
S1: world has been so focused on events in the Middle
S1: East that it has spent less time focusing on Russia.
S1: What have we been missing not only in the war
S1: with Ukraine, but in Russia's other activities? Yeah. You know,
S1: you stop and look at what's been happening. Russia's war
S1: with Ukraine has now entered its third year based on
S1: the best available information. Russia has suffered 315,000 casualties that
S1: would be dead and wounded, while Ukraine has experienced the
S1: death of about 30,000 soldiers, along with an additional 30,000
S1: civilian casualties, both dead and wounded. Russia has the larger population, though,
S1: and it can afford a greater number of casualties. Plus,
S1: they're using mercenaries from former Soviet republics and states that
S1: are allied with Russia. Now, as the flow of weapons
S1: into Ukraine has been slowing, Russia might be gaining the
S1: upper hand in several key battleground areas. But beyond Ukraine,
S1: there are other significant areas that bear watching. Vladimir Putin
S1: was just reelected to another six year term in office,
S1: making him the longest serving Russian leader since Stalin. The
S1: West pictures Putin as a despot with a shaky hold
S1: on power, but he seems to have a loyal following
S1: among most Russians who believe he's helping keep Russia strong. John,
S1: we even saw that talking to someone in Israel from
S1: Russia who had a far more positive opinion of Putin
S1: than what we get in our press now. Russia continues
S1: to expand its military presence in Libya. The Wagner Group
S1: is still in Libya, but it's been rebranded as the
S1: expeditionary corps of Russia's military intelligence agency. They're negotiating docking
S1: rights in Libya for Russian warships in exchange. For defence
S1: systems and training for pilots. Russia is also recruiting additional
S1: mercenaries to expand their influence in other parts of Africa.
S1: Their goal is to increase their influence at the expense
S1: of the US and the West, and at least in
S1: parts of Africa. The plan does seem to be working
S1: from Moody Radio.
S2: This is the land and the book. I'm John Jaeger.
S2: We're glad you're along. For today's look at current events.
S2: Story number three. International pressure on Israel continues to increase,
S2: including from the US. Help us understand the larger issues
S2: behind the ongoing pressure. And is there anything that we
S2: can do? Yeah.
S1: Well, pressure on Israel has been increasing the leaking of
S1: reports forecasting Prime Minister Netanyahu's demise. Talk of redlines that
S1: we won't allow Israel to cross. Senators openly calling for
S1: elections to replace Israel's government. Nations withholding or reducing the
S1: flow of arms. Those are just some of the actions
S1: within the past few weeks. Now I see four key
S1: reasons for this pressure. The first, I'll call it propaganda.
S1: Israel is losing the PR war. World media has been
S1: quick to uncritically accept reports out of Gaza that later
S1: turned out to be false, but they become old news
S1: before Israel is able to verify the facts and provide
S1: a response. Now that's propaganda, but the media's constant need
S1: to feed their 24 hour news cycle plays into those hands.
S1: And it's even worse with social media. The second reason
S1: for all the pressure right now is politics. National elections
S1: are coming up here in the US, and politicians are
S1: trying to woo younger voters who get their news from
S1: social media. Well, that political reality is causing them to
S1: pull back on supporting Israel. The third major reason for
S1: lack of a better term, I'll call it payola. Money
S1: buys influence. Our universities are awash in money from the
S1: Middle East, and as a result, students are being indoctrinated
S1: rather than educated. And the fourth major reason for the
S1: pressure on Israel right now is just plain old anti-Semitism,
S1: antisemitic lies are being spouted by the progressive left and
S1: by the far right. So what can we do? Well,
S1: let me offer two suggestions. First, pray. Never underestimate the
S1: power of prayer. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem. And second,
S1: I'll call it petition. Here's what I mean. One of
S1: your First Amendment rights allows you to petition the government
S1: for a redress of grievances. If you believe our leaders
S1: aren't doing what they should to support Israel, then write
S1: or email the president, the vice president, your senators, your
S1: congressperson urge them to support Israel and the Jewish people
S1: during this time of struggle. Be respectful, but also be direct.
S1: Let them know you support Israel's right to exist as
S1: a nation, and that you expect them to take a
S1: strong stand against anti-Semitism. Also, let them know you vote
S1: and that this is a key issue for you. Remember,
S1: watch out for propaganda and politics and payola and anti-Semitism,
S1: and then pray and petition your leaders to stand firm
S1: in support of Israel. Now, not everything Israel does is right.
S1: That's true for any nation. But Israel does have a
S1: right to exist as a nation, and they aren't the
S1: ones who started the current war.
S2: But those are great reminders, and I love that practical suggestion.
S2: There are a couple of them. Thank you Charlie. Archaeologists
S2: were excited about the recent announcement of a rare coin
S2: discovered in the Judean wilderness. What's the significance of this
S2: rare coin bearing the name Eleazar the priest?
S1: Yeah, the coin dates to the first year of the
S1: revolt against Rome. Now, that revolt took place about a
S1: hundred years after the time of Jesus. Several things that
S1: make this coin so special. One is the coin was
S1: found at the base of a cliff below a cave
S1: that had been excavated 20 years ago. Apparently it was
S1: dropped by the person who owned it about 2000 years ago,
S1: and now has just found this particular coin had the
S1: words Eleazar the Priest inscribed on it. Three other coins
S1: were also found at the site. They had the name Simon,
S1: which probably refers to Simon Berkovitch, the leader of the revolt.
S1: Eliezer the priest is thought to be Eliezer of Modin.
S1: He was a cousin of Simon. Stories in the Mishnah
S1: and Talmud say that as long as Eliezer would pray,
S1: the capital of the rebellion couldn't be conquered. His name
S1: only appears, though, on coins issued the first year of
S1: the four year revolt, and there's no record of what
S1: happened to Eliezer after that. The coin used ancient Hebrew
S1: script and the image of a palm tree to evoke
S1: the idea of the Kingdom of Judah coming back to life. Sadly,
S1: after the Romans put down the rebellion, many were slaughtered
S1: and the land was ethnically cleansed of Jewish people. Now,
S1: from an archaeological perspective, the coin serves as a reminder
S1: that there are still many artifacts yet to be uncovered
S1: in Israel.
S2: Thank you Charlie. And that's a look at current events. Well,
S2: coming up, the amazing story of two women who, for
S2: 259 days witnessed abuse, torture and execution in Iran's most
S2: infamous prison. Imagine. Being released after all that? What are
S2: you thinking? What are you feeling? And more importantly, do
S2: you stay in Iran? Do you get out? We'll get
S2: to all of those details, many of your questions, we'll
S2: try to ask those for you as our conversation unfolds
S2: here on the land and the book. Meanwhile, we point
S2: you to our website, The Land and the book. Org
S2: information about today's guests, past guests and next week's guest.
S2: It's all there at the land and the book.org a
S2: full program ahead. Don't miss any of it. On the
S2: land and the book. Marzia and Mariam were two young
S2: ladies who totally understood that they were putting their lives
S2: on the line every time they shared their faith. Living
S2: in Iran, they knew exactly what could happen. Undaunted, in
S2: three years, they'd started two house churches and secretly given
S2: away more than 20,000 New Testaments. That's when the police
S2: finally caught up with them. Marzia zadeh is an Iranian
S2: American with a remarkable story. She's a published author, public speaker,
S2: activist for religious freedom. For more than a decade, she
S2: has shared her inspiring story throughout the United States and
S2: around the world to bring awareness about the ongoing human
S2: rights violations and persecution of women and religious minorities in Iran.
S2: It is a great honor to welcome her back to
S2: the land and the book. Hey, thanks for being so
S2: generous with your time, Marzia.
S3: Thank you so much for having me.
S2: Well, you and your friend Mariam were both on fire
S2: for Jesus witnessing and sharing some 20,000 copies of the
S2: New Testament. But eventually that landed you both in prison
S2: when you initially walked through those doors to go in.
S2: Did you process the fact that you might not walk out, ever?
S2: I mean, what was going through your mind?
S3: Yeah, I shared with you that there were moments that
S3: I was thinking that we may end up getting killed
S3: like other prisoners who were getting killed and tortured. Raped
S3: in prison. Everything could happen to us. Because imagine they
S3: every day, almost every day, they would keep threatening our lives.
S2: Well, as the months went by, it seemed to dawn
S2: on you that witnessing for Christ in that prison was
S2: perhaps one of the reasons, if not the reason, for
S2: your detention there. Tell us a story or two of
S2: women that you spoke to about Jesus there in prison.
S3: Yeah. From the first days that they arrested us, honestly,
S3: we were only praying for our release because we didn't
S3: want to be in that horrible situation. For 14 days,
S3: we were locked in an underground dungeon that we could
S3: not see the light. We didn't have food, and they
S3: threw our food in a dirty pot on prisoners that
S3: we refused to eat that food. We had to cover
S3: ourselves with wet blankets that were soaked in urine. And
S3: that's why, you know, because of the condition there. We
S3: prayed for our release. But after that, when we could
S3: see how God was using us among those prisoners to
S3: share our faith with them, we started changing our prayers.
S3: Because when we were free outside prison, we had to
S3: pray and ask God to direct us to the right
S3: person to speak. But in prison, we realized that we
S3: can talk to everyone freely. So we turned Evin Prison
S3: and the detention for 14 days to our church, and
S3: we call that Evin Prison really became our church because
S3: we were able to share outfit with many prisoners. And
S3: we are so grateful for that opportunity, which made our
S3: interrogators very angry. And at one point I remember I
S3: had an interrogation during my interrogation. My interrogator shouted me
S3: and he said, we heard that you're talking to prisoners
S3: about your faith. You need to shut your mouth here
S3: and not to brainwash them. And I told him, I'm
S3: not going to stop talking to prisoners about my faith.
S3: And I told them, this is your fault. You arrested us,
S3: you put us in this prison. And prisoners are curious,
S3: asking us why we are here. So we have to
S3: explain to them. And that creates more questions to them.
S3: And I could see frustration in them because they could
S3: see that they couldn't do anything else to us. We
S3: have already been in prison and we were free to
S3: talk to many prisoners, and that's why I felt more
S3: free inside prison rather than outside prison. Talking to people
S3: about my faith.
S2: You talk to people in all kinds of situations and backgrounds,
S2: some of them pretty pathetic. Tell me about a story
S2: of somebody that comes to mind, a lady that you
S2: remember speaking with in that prison.
S3: Okay. For example, one story that, um, blow up in
S3: prison was that the story of one prisoner, and she
S3: was sentenced to life, and she was a keep praying namaz,
S3: practicing Islamic rules. And from the first day I met her,
S3: God put her in my heart to pray for her.
S3: And I started and I started talking to her about
S3: the love of God. But she was so mad at
S3: me and she didn't want to listen. And one day
S3: God gave me a dream about her, which in that dream,
S3: God showed me I was giving fish to every prisoners.
S3: And when she came to me, I gave her the
S3: biggest fish. And when I woke up, I was in
S3: the cell with 50 other prisoners, and the Holy Spirit
S3: gave me the interpretation. And in front of all my
S3: cell mates, I told her my dream and I told
S3: her that I believe. You will be released in maximum
S3: six months. And I didn't know how and why I
S3: said that, but I believe at that time it was
S3: the Holy Spirit. And then she mocked me. She said, uh, yeah,
S3: many people told me about this. Many fortune tellers told
S3: me that one day I will get released. But this
S3: is a lie. I have to be here for my life.
S3: But exactly. After six months, she got pardoned. And since
S3: many prisoners heard about my dream and what I told her,
S3: it was a big amuse in prison. That all prisoners.
S3: That they could see that whenever we pray for any prisoners,
S3: whenever God give me, gave me a dream about other prisoners,
S3: it come to truth. And they told us that we
S3: see a difference in your faith. With our faith we
S3: see that as soon as you pray something a miracle happened.
S3: And that woman came to me with tears and she
S3: told me, I promise you, as soon as I get
S3: out of this prison, I try to find Jesus and
S3: find the church, to find a Bible to read. Mm.
S2: Well, you have many, many such stories. And they're told
S2: in the book Captive in Iran. Your story and that
S2: of Mariam's was eventually picked up by international media, including
S2: organizations in the West concerned about persecuted Christians. How did
S2: your story ever get out? Initially.
S3: It was through our sisters and that after months being
S3: in prison, finally we were able to contact them and
S3: we heard from them that my sister immediately informed the
S3: pastors in Iran and our friends and pastors outside Iran,
S3: and they started, you know, advocating for our case. And
S3: all Christian organizations started advocating for us and spreading the news.
S3: Some Christians in UK went in front of embassy, Iranian
S3: embassy and did a protest and Amnesty International shared the news.
S3: Pope from Vatican sent a letter to the government on
S3: behalf of us. And because of all those international pressures,
S3: and of course because of God's grace, you know, today
S3: I'm alive.
S2: She endured nine months of mental and physical hardships and
S2: intense interrogation in Evin prison, one of the most brutal
S2: prisons in the world. Marzia Amira Zaid shares her story
S2: with us today on the land and the book. I'm
S2: John Jaeger, so what is your experience now as you
S2: look back, tell you about the power of believers in
S2: this country to influence the plight of other religious prisoners
S2: who are thousands of miles away in trouble, behind bars
S2: without hope of ever getting released. What does your experience
S2: tell you now?
S3: You know, since 2011 that I came to the United States,
S3: my friend and I started, you know, speaking, sharing our faith,
S3: sharing our story with other people and churches and Christians, uh,
S3: to wake up the churches and to bring awareness about persecution.
S3: And during my speaking, I always tell people that how
S3: much is important as a Christian to stand up and
S3: support our brothers and sisters. For example, when I was
S3: in prison, we heard from guards that we were receiving
S3: hundreds of letters every day, and they were mad at
S3: those people sending letters to us. They didn't give us
S3: those letters to read, but we could see as a
S3: result of those supports, and they started changing their behaviors
S3: with us. At least they didn't torture us physically. They
S3: didn't rape us because of those supports. They could see
S3: that the world is watching them. And especially when a
S3: case get international attention, they try to change their behavior
S3: and to be cautious about that case. That's why I
S3: always encourage Christians that living in a free countries like
S3: America and other countries, we have a responsibility to support
S3: those who are in those countries suffering because of their faith.
S3: There are many ways that we can support them, and
S3: those little things are matter because of all those letters
S3: come together and it made a big change for us.
S3: I always tell people, pray and ask the Holy Spirit
S3: to guide you how you can support persecuted Christians all
S3: around the world, how you can stand up for your faith.
S3: It doesn't matter what is our job, what we do.
S3: But little things are so matter. Maybe one person, when
S3: she or he was writing a letter thinking that this
S3: is just one letter, but all those letters come together
S3: and made a big difference for us.
S2: Well, the day did come when you finally were released.
S2: What was that moment like? You never get any apologies
S2: from your captors, I'm guessing. No.
S3: Of course not. They didn't want to apologize for what
S3: they did, but they. As I mentioned, to change their behavior.
S3: I remember my last conversation with my interrogator that he
S3: told us that if you wanted to curses or to
S3: say something, you can say. And I told her the
S3: last sentences that Jesus said on the cross. I told
S3: them that I am not going to curse you with
S3: what you did to us, but I ask God to
S3: forgive you because you don't know what you are doing.
S3: Which made him angry again with my answer. But honestly,
S3: some of them, they don't know they are brainwashed and
S3: they have the spirit of evil. But the day that
S3: we got out of prison, it was a combination of
S3: being happy and sad. We were happy that finally God
S3: gave us the victory and we got released. But honestly,
S3: in our hearts we were sad leaving our friends and
S3: many other women are behind and that's why we promised
S3: ourselves to be a voice for them and share their
S3: stories with the world. That what's going on? It's not,
S3: you know, writing the first book, Captive in Iran, is
S3: not just about our story. It's the stories of many
S3: women we felt we need to share with the world
S3: to see that what's happening to Iranian women living under
S3: the harsh rules of Islamic laws.
S2: Well, this has been a journey. And again, we encourage
S2: you to check out the full story in Mars's book,
S2: Captive in Iran. A link to that at our website.
S2: The land and the book, dawg. How can we pray
S2: for Iran today?
S3: I'm sure you know the world knows. Many people know
S3: the news these days that. Especially after the death of
S3: Mahsa Amini. She was killed. Brutally killed in, um, detention.
S3: It was the same. Detention was a detention. It's an
S3: underground dungeon. She was in the same jail that a
S3: beaten to death. And it was last year that this happened,
S3: which led to a big movement in Iran. And Iranian
S3: women bravely started standing for their rights. And this revolution
S3: is started in Iran since last year. And again, another
S3: girl was beaten to death because of, you know, not
S3: having a proper Islamic hijab by morality police. I myself
S3: experienced all those injustices and Iranian people are fighting for
S3: their freedoms these days to get rid of this Islamic uh, regime.
S3: They know their lies and their eyes are opened and
S3: I believe persecution help people to see the truth and
S3: to understand the lies that they were fed for many years.
S3: And I ask people to pray for the freedom of
S3: Iranian people, for the church in Iran that is suffering,
S3: for religious minorities getting persecuted. And we have power in
S3: our prayers. And as a Christian, there are many ways
S3: that we can support Iranian people. And regarding, you know,
S3: what's happening in the world and the news these days
S3: about the war that started in Israel, we all know
S3: that the head of this evil is in Iran, and
S3: we need to support the Iranian people to stand with them,
S3: to cut the head of this evil at home. And
S3: as long as these people are in power, they are
S3: keep torturing, keep arresting, keep killing innocent people not only
S3: in Iran but in other countries. Today, the Hamas attack
S3: in Israel, everyone knows that Islamic Republic regime supporting these
S3: terrorists to kill innocent Jews in Israel, to kill other
S3: innocent people in the Middle Eastern countries. So this is
S3: very important for us to understand that the Iranian people
S3: are not fighting only against their own enemies. These are
S3: in our land. They infiltrated in our politics, our education system,
S3: our culture, and they are brainwashing people, giving wrong advice
S3: to our politicians that they send billions of dollars to
S3: these evil people enabling them. This is wrong. This is
S3: foolish policies toward Iran. And I ask American people to
S3: pray for our politicians because we can't continue doing that.
S3: We can't bow down to terrorists. We need to stand
S3: up for our faith, for our values before it's too late,
S3: because what happened in Iran can happen here, too.
S2: Well, thank you so much for sharing your story and
S2: your time. We look forward to connecting again. This has
S2: been quite a story and there's more to it. Check
S2: it out in these books. Both of them are in
S2: a link at our website, The land and the book.org.
S2: We'll take you directly to her website at the Land
S2: and the book, dawg. Don't go away. I'm looking forward
S2: to a fresh set of Bible questions and Charlie's answers
S2: next here on the land and the book. Hope your
S2: day's going well. This is the land in the book.
S2: I'm John Geiger with our host, doctor Charlie Dyer. And Charlie.
S2: I'm thinking Passover will soon be upon us. And one
S2: of the traditional Passover questions that always comes around is
S2: what makes this night different from all others? Passover, of course,
S2: is an important biblical holiday that has great meaning for
S2: both Jewish people and believers in Jesus. So I think
S2: that's a critical question to ask.
S1: It really is. And if people listening want to learn
S1: more about what makes Passover so special, well, our friends
S1: at Life in Messiah are offering to mail you a
S1: free copy of their Messianic Passover Haggadah. This booklet will
S1: lead you through the celebration of Passover to see the
S1: rich connections to Jesus, our Messiah, and the Last Supper.
S1: You'll also receive a link for an interactive Passover Seder
S1: video with the Haggadah and video. You can celebrate Passover
S1: this year with your family and friends to get this
S1: free offer. Go to Life in Messiah org and click
S1: on the Moody Radio button to find out more and
S1: request your copy. That's life in messiah.org.
S2: Well, I'm looking forward to this, Charlie. A whole new
S2: set of questions in and we'll start with Claes. He
S2: says thank you for your wonderfully engaging and informative program.
S2: I don't often get a chance to listen to the
S2: program on a weekly basis on the radio, but I
S2: save them up to binge listen when my wife and
S2: I travel. Listening to your podcast. His question relates to
S2: Genesis 12 and the call of Abraham. He says, I've
S2: always heard that Abraham was called from earth to the
S2: land that God was calling him to, but it seems
S2: that the call actually came after he had moved to Haran.
S2: If that's true, do we have any indication why he
S2: moved from Earth to Haran? Yeah, I think.
S1: Actually the answer is found in Steven's speech to the
S1: Sanhedrin in Acts chapter seven. In verses 2 to 4,
S1: Stephen provides a more specific chronology as to God's call
S1: of Abraham. He says, The God of glory appeared to
S1: our father Abraham while he was still in Mesopotamia before
S1: he lived in Haran. Leave your country and your people,
S1: God said, and go to the land I will show you.
S1: So he left the land of the Chaldeans and settled
S1: in Haran. After the death of his father, God sent
S1: him to this land where you are now living. Now
S1: I don't have a problem reconciling Genesis 11 and 12
S1: with that speech of Stephen in Acts six. Genesis 11
S1: focuses on the genealogy of Tara and Abram, while Genesis
S1: 12 then picks up the story following Tara's death. Apparently,
S1: God originally called Abraham from ur the Chaldees, but while
S1: seeking to obey God, Abraham also honored his father by
S1: taking him along. Now, both Ur and Haran were cities
S1: known for their worship of the moon god, and perhaps
S1: that's why Tara wanted to stop there rather than continuing on.
S1: But we do know from Joshua 24 two that Terah,
S1: it says, worshipped other gods. So wanting to stop at
S1: Haran does seem to make sense from a pagan perspective.
S1: God then repeated his call to Abram following Tara's death.
S2: Todd says, how do we interpret? Second Samuel 21, where
S2: seven of Saul's sons are killed for Saul's murder of
S2: the Gibeonites? In light of the idea that children should
S2: not be put to death for the sins of their fathers,
S2: and that appears to be what's happening there.
S1: Yeah, this is a gruesome event from the time of David,
S1: and we're not given all the details. But here's how
S1: I see the passage. First, we don't know the ages
S1: of the seven descendants of Saul that were handed over
S1: by David, even though they were grandsons of Saul. It's
S1: possible they were old enough to have actually taken part
S1: in Saul's attack on the Gibeonites. If so, they wouldn't
S1: necessarily be innocent. Now, more specifically, it looks as if
S1: Saul's actions were quite serious. He tried to wipe out
S1: the Gibeonites with whom Joshua had made a covenant in
S1: Joshua nine. Gibeon was located only a few miles from
S1: Saul's capital of Gibeah, and it was located in land
S1: allocated to the tribe of Benjamin. Evidently, Saul and his
S1: family took it on themselves to break the covenant and
S1: wipe them out. The Gibeonites describe Saul in that second
S1: Samuel passage as the man who destroyed us and plotted
S1: against us, so that we have been decimated and have
S1: no place anywhere in Israel. The Mosaic Law did allow
S1: for leks, Talion, as it's called, the principle of an
S1: eye for an eye, or tooth for a tooth, where
S1: retribution could match an offence. Apparently, Saul's actions brought God's
S1: judgment on the entire nation, resulting in a three year famine,
S1: and God told David it was on account of Saul
S1: and his bloodstained house. It's because he put the gibeonites
S1: to death. David's specific request of the remaining gibeonites was,
S1: what shall I do for you? How should I make
S1: amends so that you will bless the Lord's inheritance? The
S1: action finally taken was part of God's divine judgment to
S1: remove a curse caused by Saul and his bloodstained house.
S1: And looking at all the details, I don't see it
S1: as an act of reckless vengeance, but as divine retribution
S1: against a family that had shared in the sin of
S1: Saul and his reckless and evil actions toward a group
S1: under divine protection by a covenant guaranteed by Joshua. Though
S1: Saul was the one who led the attack against Gibeon,
S1: it apparently was supported by his family. The seven chosen
S1: represents the number of completion, so I think it's suggesting
S1: that God was judging the entire family of Saul for
S1: its actions.
S2: This is the land and the book from Moody Radio,
S2: our host, Charlie Dyer, working his way through the questions
S2: that have come in recently to us via email. I'll
S2: share that email address in a moment. I'm John Jaeger
S2: and I got two questions that have come in that
S2: are both similarly phrased. John says, would you please give
S2: a history of the name Palestine and Palestinian? I know
S2: the land of Israel was promised to God's chosen people,
S2: but why was the country called Palestine prior to 1948?
S2: And Jackie asks, why do maps and commentaries refer to
S2: the land as Palestine during the time of Jesus, when
S2: Rome didn't give that name until after the Jewish revolt
S2: in 70 A.D.? Or am I wrong? It's a huge
S2: pet peeve of mine, because it encourages people to dismiss
S2: Israel's claim to the land. Not to mention it is
S2: historically inaccurate. Your thoughts?
S1: Yeah, I share that same pet peeve. The term Palestine
S1: actually comes from the time of the Roman emperor Hadrian,
S1: who lived a century after Jesus. After a second Jewish
S1: revolt against Rome, he renamed the land Philistine land Palestina
S1: after Israel's historic enemy. So from the time of Hadrian
S1: until 1948, the terms Palestine and Palestinian were geographical terms.
S1: Since Palestine was the name given to the region by Hadrian,
S1: the people who lived there, and that's Jews, Muslims and
S1: Christians were collectively called Palestinians, what is today known as
S1: the Jerusalem Post, for example, one of Israel's premier Jewish
S1: newspapers was called the Palestine Post prior to 1948. Now,
S1: those who refer to Jesus being born in or living
S1: in Palestine are at best applying the geographical term anachronistically.
S1: At worst, they're using the term in a political sense
S1: to try and remove Israel's historical connection to the land.
S1: But in either case, it's wrong. Since 1948, and especially
S1: since 1967, the terms Palestine and Palestinian have become political terms.
S1: And in that sense, they're used to refer to the
S1: Arabs who live in the West Bank and Gaza Strip,
S1: who are not citizens of the state of Israel. And finally,
S1: there's never been an actual ethnic group of people known
S1: as the Palestinians. Those who call themselves that today are
S1: related ethnically to the many powers who swept through the
S1: land over the centuries, from the Arabs who swept in
S1: from the Arabian Peninsula to the Egyptians and Syrians and
S1: Turks and other ethnic groups who came through the land.
S2: Cooper asks if someone violates revelation 22, 18 and 19.
S2: These are verses that speak about adding to or taking
S2: away from the words of the book, the Bible. Do
S2: you think that proves they aren't saved? If so, then
S2: if someone thinks they violated these verses and then confess
S2: and repent of it, do you think that proves they
S2: haven't violated those verses? Or do you think if someone
S2: violates those verses but confesses and repents, that still proves
S2: they're not saved?
S1: Well, I believe the warnings in those passages are to
S1: be taken very seriously. Uh, they're warning against deliberately distorting
S1: God's message by either denying part of it or trying
S1: to explain it away and change what God has clearly said.
S1: A person who does that is deliberately rejecting the message
S1: God has given, and that's why they'll be under judgment. Now,
S1: if someone who's done this then repents, can they be saved?
S1: Yes they can. First John one nine promises that God
S1: will forgive those who confess their sin. But I also
S1: believe God will judge those who deliberately reject the message
S1: of the book, denying both Christ's return and the offer
S1: of salvation he's made in light of the coming time
S1: of judgment. And yet, as long as we still have breath,
S1: it's never too late to repent and turn to God.
S1: At one last point, notice revelation 2217, the verse just
S1: before these two verses. It contains still another offer of
S1: salvation from God. In other words, even as God points
S1: out the seriousness of rejecting what he said about the future,
S1: he still offers salvation to those willing to repent and
S1: turn to him in faith.
S2: Two questions here from Jim. He takes us to acts one,
S2: verse 15, wondering about the fact that in that verse
S2: they come up with 120 people when just two verses
S2: prior to that, there's a reference to 11 apostles, not 120. Uh,
S2: what are your thoughts?
S1: Well, in terms of the numbers, I think the number
S1: and 115 can be explained by seeing the events in
S1: the chapter in two parts. Verses 1 to 14 describe
S1: the events on the day Jesus ascended to heaven. And
S1: that's where the two angels addressed the small group who
S1: went with Jesus to the Mount of Olives. Verse 15
S1: in that chapter then moves forward almost ten days. Now
S1: I say that because we know Jesus ascension took place
S1: 40 days after his resurrection, and the day of Pentecost
S1: took place 50 days after the Passover. So we do
S1: have about a ten day gap. We know Jesus appeared
S1: to hundreds during that 40 day period, so I have
S1: no problem seeing a large number of that group here
S1: identified as about 120 remaining on in Jerusalem and gathering
S1: with the apostles in verse 15, as the day of
S1: Pentecost approached.
S2: What about that multitude referred to in acts two six?
S2: Is this the same group of 120 people mentioned in
S2: one verse 15.
S1: Now in that case, the crowd or multitude mentioned there
S1: refers to the God fearing Jews from every nation under
S1: heaven who were staying in Jerusalem for the feast of Pentecost,
S1: mentioned in the previous verse. They're not yet followers of Jesus,
S1: which explains the message of salvation being preached to them
S1: by Peter.
S2: Well, if you didn't hear your question answered today, maybe
S2: you didn't get it to us. Or maybe it's on
S2: cue for next week. Either way, we'd love to hear
S2: from you with your question. Your thought about the Bible
S2: prophecy in the Middle East. Email us at. The land
S2: and the Book at Moody Edu. I'm looking forward to
S2: Charlie's devotional. It's next right here. Most everyone's heard the
S2: story of Queen Esther, the beautiful Esther, who saved her people.
S2: But there was a powerful force behind Esther, a guy
S2: named Mordecai. Just who was he? Welcome back to the
S2: land and the book. And the questions I'm asking. The
S2: very ones that I suspect. Charlie, you're about to address
S2: in your devotional coming up.
S1: I hope so, John.
S2: All right, well, we'll look forward to that as we
S2: first hear this Holy Land experience testimony, someone who has
S2: insights for us after visiting the places where Jesus walked.
S2: Check out this testimony.
S4: Here. My name is Ana Duarte and this is my
S4: Holy Land experience. During my first trip to Israel, I
S4: met Christ as the good Shepherd in a very intimate
S4: and personal way. I experience more the person than the place.
S4: I'm still putting together my experience in written form. I
S4: went one way, came back another. I might like to
S4: go back with what I now know.
S5: I still am speechless. Two years ago I went with
S5: the Moody team and just being there was incredible. The
S5: most profound experience for me was sitting in that boat
S5: on the Sea of Galilee. I could not speak, just
S5: knowing that my Lord did the same thing. He rested
S5: in this boat. He walked on the Sea of Galilee.
S5: He lived. There was just a tremendous experience for me.
S5: I fell in love with him over and over and
S5: over again, just sitting on the Sea of Galilee.
S2: So I presume we're going to the book of Esther. Charlie.
S1: We're going to get there now. I've got a little
S1: detour along the way, but that's where we're heading. Okay.
S1: And I want to start with Psalm 139, verse 14.
S1: You know, in that passage David said he was fearfully
S1: and wonderfully made. There are times when my wife tells
S1: me that the way my brain works says to her
S1: that I'm more fearfully than wonderfully made. I admit, the
S1: connection that come to my mind sometimes just baffle even me.
S1: For example, if I were to ask you what comes
S1: to your mind when I say Mordechai, I suspect you'd
S1: say something like, well, Esther or Purim or Haman or Persia.
S1: And my brain does get around to thinking of them.
S1: But the first thing that comes to my mind is
S1: Fiddler on the roof. Any clues? Why? Well, think of
S1: Tevye sharing his fake dream with his wife to get
S1: her to agree to the marriage of their daughter. Title
S1: to the young tailor model comes oil, still drawing a blank. Well,
S1: in the song, Tevye says in his dream that grandma
S1: came to him from the grave singing about the wedding
S1: and part of what she said about the young tailor
S1: was a worthy boy. Is he? Mazel tov. Mazel tov
S1: of pious family. Mazel tov, Mazel tov. They named him
S1: after my dear Uncle Mordechai. There it is. The tailor
S1: model comes oil. Well, today we're not heading to Anatevka
S1: to visit with Tevye or Grandma, or even the dead
S1: Uncle Mordechai. With the festival of Purim this weekend, we're
S1: actually on our way to the citadel of Susa in
S1: ancient Persia. And the Mordecai we're going to see is
S1: the one most of you thought of. First, the one
S1: from the Book of Esther. The royal palace rises up
S1: from the plain as a majestic monument to Darius the
S1: First and his son Xerxes. The city and palace sit
S1: on its elevated platform, whose side slope up 50ft. The
S1: entire area is surrounded by a moat that was filled
S1: with the water of the nearby river. The entry over
S1: the moat is on the east side, where a monumental
S1: gate guards the entrance to the entire compound. The gate
S1: itself is 130ft wide and 100ft deep. Based on the
S1: scattered remains, the columns inside that supported the roof were
S1: likely 40ft high and more than three feet in diameter.
S1: The gates stood in majestic isolation, unattached to any walls
S1: extending around the complex, but the gate was more than
S1: just mere decoration. Likely, this was an administrative center where
S1: the inner workings of the palace intersected with the city
S1: and empire at controlled. And this is where we first
S1: meet Mordecai. So what do we know about this man
S1: who plays a central role in the Book of Esther
S1: and in the feast of Purim? Well, the first thing
S1: we learn about him is his genealogy. In Esther two
S1: verses five and six, he's introduced as a Jew of
S1: the tribe of Benjamin named Mordecai, son of year, son
S1: of Shimei, the son of Kish, who had been carried
S1: into exile from Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, among
S1: those taking captive with Jehoiakim king of Judah. Now most
S1: skip over those verses because they aren't strong on Bible
S1: chronology or genealogies. But the verses do pose a slight problem.
S1: It sounds at first like Mordecai was carried into exile
S1: at the time of Jehoiakim, king of Judah, and is
S1: still alive at the time of King Xerxes, and the
S1: problem is that Jehoiakim was taken into exile in 597 B.C.,
S1: and the Book of Esther begins in the third year
S1: of King Xerxes reign, which is 483 BC. If Mordecai
S1: was a baby when he went into exile, he would
S1: now be at least 114 years old. More likely, the
S1: writer is saying he's a descendant of captives taken into Babylon.
S1: At that time, we're not told how his family moved
S1: from Babylon to Sousa, but we are told a few
S1: other historical details. Mordecai was from the tribe of Benjamin,
S1: and he's also identified as the son or descendant of Kish.
S1: That's not a reference to his great grandfather. Kish is
S1: the father of King Saul, which puts him about 600
S1: years before Mordecai. The writers helping flesh out Mordecai his background.
S1: He's a Benjamin who descended from the line of King Saul.
S1: And his family ended up in captivity during the second
S1: Babylonian deportation. Just two verses later, we learned a little
S1: bit more about Mordecai. Mordecai had a cousin named Hadassah,
S1: whom he had brought up because she had neither father
S1: nor mother. This girl, who was also known as Esther,
S1: was lovely and form and features, and Mordecai had taken
S1: her as his own daughter when her father and mother died.
S1: We know nothing about Mordecai, his own family, but we
S1: learned that he had cared for an orphaned cousin with
S1: the Hebrew name Hadassah, or the Persian name Esther. Though
S1: physically they were cousins, Mordecai raised her as if he
S1: were her father. Then a few verses later, we discovered
S1: that Mordecai apparently occupied a position of authority in the
S1: Persian government. In 221, we find Mordecai sitting at the
S1: king's gate. This isn't the equivalent of sitting on a
S1: park bench in the capital, the King's Gate. Very likely
S1: the imposing gate that stood at the entrance to the
S1: entire palace complex was also a key administrative center. Some
S1: connect Mordecai with an official named Maduka, who served as
S1: a royal accountant, and from this position of authority. Mordecai
S1: later overheard a plot to assassinate the king being hatched
S1: by two security officers. He passed the information on to
S1: Queen Esther, who warned the king. The next detail we
S1: discover about Mordecai is his refusal to compromise his principles.
S1: In chapter three, were introduced to Haman, the son of
S1: the aggregate. Again, tiny genealogical details are important. The reference
S1: to Haman being an aggregate is intended to trace his
S1: genealogy back to Agag, the king of the Amalekites at
S1: the time of King Saul. If Mordecai is connected to Saul,
S1: Haman is connected to Saul's archenemy Agag, and though the
S1: Persian king promoted Heyman and ordered everyone to honor him,
S1: Mordecai would not kneel down or pay him honor. God
S1: had spoken about Agag and his descendants, and not even
S1: the king of Persia could get Mordecai to violate God's command.
S1: As the story unfolds, we discover that Haman is ready
S1: to finish what the Amalekites and Agag had started. When
S1: the very existence of the Jewish people is threatened by
S1: royal decree. We see still another aspect of Mordecai his faith.
S1: The Book of Esther by design never mentions the name
S1: of God. It's as if the writer wants us to
S1: picture God working behind the scenes, rather than through direct
S1: miracles to accomplish his will. But even with that, Mordecai
S1: is clear in his explanation to Esther of why she
S1: was made queen. For if you remain silent at this time,
S1: relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place,
S1: but you and your father's family will perish. And who
S1: knows but that you have come to royal position for
S1: such a time as this? During the Jewish celebration of Purim,
S1: the Book of Esther is read aloud. When the name
S1: of Haman is mentioned, those in attendance jeer and twirl
S1: joggers or noisemakers to help drown out his name. But
S1: when Mordecai is mentioned, the audience cheers. And rightly so,
S1: because from a human perspective, he is the hero of
S1: the book. He's the one who raised an orphan and
S1: helped her become a queen. He was the mid-level servant
S1: who risked his life to report a plot against the king,
S1: and he was the one who refused to compromise his
S1: principles of right and wrong, even when it could have
S1: cost him his life. And he's the one who reminded
S1: a frightened queen that the unseen power behind the throne
S1: was the one who had placed her in her role.
S1: For such a time as this, Mordecai was an exceptional
S1: man whom God used to save the Jewish people. But
S1: before all that, he was simply an ordinary man who
S1: chose to live out his faith in extraordinary ways. He
S1: chose to be a faithful man of God before an
S1: orphan grew into a young woman, before the royal beauty pageant,
S1: before overhearing the plot to assassinate the king, and before
S1: his decision not to bow the knee to evil. And
S1: that's exactly what God wants from each of us. Resolve
S1: to be a man or woman of faith, no matter
S1: how mundane the task. Be faithful and small things, and
S1: then let God control where those small things might lead.
S2: Boy, that's a great reminder. Thank you Charlie, I love
S2: the importance of choice in all of this. Our time
S2: is gone, but we sure have enjoyed having you with
S2: us here at the land of the book, our host,
S2: Charlie Dyer. Our producer, Dan Anderson, I'm John Yeager. The
S2: land in the book is a production of Moody Radio,
S2: a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.