S1: Stefano has traveled the world with a passion to demonstrate
S1: the love of Christ. His special calling is to love
S1: Jewish people and point them to their Messiah. As you
S1: can imagine, he's got some interesting stories to tell. Coming up,
S1: you'll get an update on people he's met, strategies he's using,
S1: and ways to pray. Plus, we'll cover all the headlines
S1: from the Middle East and answer some intriguing Bible questions.
S1: Welcome to the land and the book your host. A
S1: lifelong student of the Middle East, Doctor Charlie Dyer. And
S1: I'm John Yeager. Charlie. As usual, there is no shortage
S1: of fog in the news covering Israel in the Middle East. Right?
S2: Oh, you're absolutely right, John.
S1: We're going to get to all of that in a moment. First, though,
S1: as believers, there's a great need for us to share
S1: the gospel with the Jewish people. In fact, many of
S1: our listeners faithfully pray and partner with ministries doing just that.
S1: But what if you could personally take part in bringing
S1: the gospel to Jewish people.
S2: Yeah, and that's why our friends at Life in Messiah
S2: would love the opportunity to get believers involved in Jewish ministry.
S2: They regularly organize outreach teams to Brooklyn, South Florida, even
S2: to Israel, outside times of conflict. These ministry trips will
S2: equip you to understand how to share the gospel with
S2: Jewish people, give you the opportunity to actively share your faith,
S2: and provide tools and resources that you can take home
S2: with you. If you want to get hands on training
S2: and practical experience in Jewish evangelism, you can learn more
S2: by visiting Life in messiah.org and clicking on the Moody
S2: radio button there. That's life in messiah.org.
S1: Thank you Charlie. And now a look at current events
S1: from the Middle East. After announcing an imminent attack on Iran,
S1: President Trump then canceled that attack at the last moment.
S1: Are the president's ever changing threats just empty words, or
S1: could there be something more strategic in his apparent course reversals?
S2: Yeah. Our problem is we don't have access to all
S2: the information we need to form a clear picture. Different
S2: media sources pick and choose the data that matches their narrative.
S2: And some of that data comes from individuals who have political, economic,
S2: or religious interest in how the story is presented and shaped.
S2: A good approach is to be reading a wide range
S2: of sources right now. It's also possible that President Trump's
S2: threats have been bluffs using the art of the deal,
S2: so to speak, to force Iran to back down. But
S2: even if that's not the case, could the pattern of
S2: threats followed by later walking back those threats, lead Iran
S2: to believe the U.S. wasn't able or willing to act? However,
S2: it's possible this most recent pause was actually in response
S2: to back channel negotiations. Iran's denial of any negotiations likely
S2: points to divisions within their leadership, with one group negotiating
S2: while another denies the negotiations are taking place. The fact
S2: that Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf states encouraged President
S2: Trump to return to diplomacy could have been prompted by
S2: signals from inside Iran. But let me add, after all
S2: of that, a third possibility it's possible this pattern of
S2: threats and strikes, followed by pauses and negotiations could be
S2: part of a deliberate U.S. plan to keep Iran off guard.
S2: It does seem the U.S. has pushed for negotiations, but
S2: then pivots back to threats of attack if Iran begins stalling.
S2: Applying sufficient military pressure lets Iran know the U.S. is
S2: serious and then being willing to put up with criticism
S2: when strikes are called off. Is more quiet diplomacy and
S2: looking at the bigger picture from the U.S. part. So
S2: in addition to reading widely, what I would suggest is
S2: that people look for patterns of behavior. Where else can
S2: we go to make sense of all the confusion. Well,
S2: here's three possibilities. First, keep focusing on the Strait of Hormuz.
S2: Will Iran be able to close it off with its threats,
S2: or can U.S. military pressure keep oil and other goods flowing?
S2: A second. Listen for details on Iran's nuclear program. Will
S2: pickaxe mountain be bombed, or will Iran allow the International
S2: Atomic Energy Association to resume monitoring its facilities? And finally,
S2: watch for information on Iran's proxies Hezbollah, the Houthis and Hamas.
S2: Are they being resupplied by Iran, or are they being
S2: isolated by the West and by the Gulf states? You know,
S2: we need to look beyond the rhetoric and focus on
S2: what's actually taking place on the ground.
S1: Well, Charlie, let's talk for a moment about Hamas. They
S1: have apparently agreed to the board of Peace's 12 point
S1: plan to disarm and rehabilitate Gaza. Is that true? And
S1: is there any stock in it?
S2: Yeah. The agreement's been called historic, and it appeared initially
S2: to have been agreed to by Hamas. However, by saying
S2: we agree, we mean we don't agree. This is really
S2: important when you read beyond the headlines, for example, Hamas
S2: said it would disarm and then it said, well, it'll
S2: do so after Israel withdraws from Gaza. Right. At the
S2: same time, there's reports that Hamas has been distributing rifles
S2: and other so-called, quote, personal weapons to operatives claiming to
S2: disarm while passing out weapons is deceptive, even beyond the weapons.
S2: The larger issue, and this is the nature of Hamas's
S2: commitment to any peace treaty with Israel, one of the
S2: former mediators in the process characterized the deal as Hamas's
S2: most far reaching proposal. And specifically, he said, the goal
S2: is a, quote, long term cease fire and Israeli withdrawal.
S2: But several key points were overlooked by most media in
S2: the West. For example, the Arabic word used to describe
S2: the long term cease fire was hudna, not peace treaty.
S2: A hudna is a temporary truce that suspends the fighting.
S2: In an interview, Hamas's spokesman specifically said the group would
S2: not change its mentality or its goals. It remains committed
S2: to Israel's destruction. In addition, the agreement didn't say the
S2: heavy weapons and armament would be removed from Gaza. It
S2: said they would be kept in a storage facility in Gaza. Well,
S2: how long might it take for that facility to be
S2: raided or have weapons smuggled out? Right. Israel isn't willing
S2: to accept the proposal. After nearly 40 years of fighting Hamas,
S2: it's easy to see why they can't be trusted. Thankfully,
S2: the Board of Peace did respond to Israel's concerns after
S2: a meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu. They issued a clarification,
S2: saying Israel's pullback beyond the yellow line will occur only
S2: after Hamas disarms. So we'll need to wait and see
S2: what's actually going to happen.
S1: If you're just joining us, this is the land and
S1: the book from Moody Radio. Middle East expert doctor Charlie Dyer,
S1: our host. I'm John Gager, helping us walk through a
S1: list of current events from the Middle East this week
S1: after a period of relative quiet. The Red heifer is
S1: back in the news in Israel. What's the latest on
S1: efforts to produce a red heifer and why is it
S1: so important?
S2: You know, it's hard to believe, John. It was four
S2: years ago this month that five red heifers were brought
S2: to Israel from Texas. The initial excitement kind of faded
S2: a bit over time. Two of the animals were disqualified
S2: after black and white hairs appeared on their bodies, and
S2: apparently one of the three remaining red heifers was killed
S2: by mistake during a demonstration showing how the ashes of
S2: the red heifer are to be prepared. So two of
S2: the original five remain, but they're now four years old.
S2: Rabbinic tradition says the animal is to be sacrificed in
S2: the third or fourth year, with the third year preferred,
S2: so it doesn't grow any discolored hairs. So time has
S2: just about run out for them. But over the past
S2: two months, two new red heifers have been born in Israel.
S2: Their births were announced by the National Institute for the
S2: study of the red heifer. The group has been studying
S2: rabbinical issues related to the red heifer. In fact, they
S2: plan to release a four volume work summarizing their decades
S2: of research. Meanwhile, a red heifer breeding project using advanced
S2: genetic research is also underway in Shiloh using the two
S2: cows that were previously disqualified. The goal of both projects
S2: is to prepare a red heifer for the day when
S2: the ceremony can be performed on the Mount of Olives.
S2: The real goal of both groups is to work toward
S2: the rebuilding of a new temple in Jerusalem. Now people
S2: might say, why is it needed? Well, numbers 19 says
S2: the ashes of the red heifer are essential for ceremonial cleansing.
S2: To enter the temple without being ceremonially cleaned would defile
S2: the sanctuary. So the ashes of the red heifer are
S2: needed before the Jewish temple worship can resume.
S1: Well, the headlines were intriguing. Burned wooden beams from Jerusalem's
S1: first temple. Destruction found preserved after 2600 years. Charlie, does
S1: this mean they actually found wood beams from Solomon's temple?
S1: Or is that headline more hype than historical fact?
S2: Yeah, the headline, or at least some of them were
S2: definitely more hype than history. I blame it on the
S2: space limitations given to newspaper headline writers, but the story
S2: itself really is fascinating. Massive wooden beams charred by the
S2: fire that destroyed Jerusalem in 586 B.C., were indeed very
S2: recently unearthed. The beams were not from the temple itself, though.
S2: Those familiar with the excavations in Jerusalem. These beams were
S2: discovered in the Givati parking lot area, just to the
S2: west of the original city of David. The beams served
S2: as the roof of an inner courtyard of a building
S2: from the First Temple period, but it wasn't part of
S2: the temple. The fine, though, really is important. Combining radiocarbon
S2: dating of the wood along with the preserved tree rings
S2: will enable a very specific timeline, though the Bible itself
S2: is remarkably accurate when it comes to the date of
S2: Jerusalem's destruction. Jeremiah, 39, and second Kings 25 both report
S2: that the Babylonian army set fire to the temple of
S2: the Lord, the royal palace and all the houses of Jerusalem.
S2: In August 586 BC. So the beams are visual evidence
S2: of Babylon's destruction of Jerusalem, just as it's presented in
S2: the Bible.
S1: Interesting. Well, lots to come on today's program, including. We're
S1: going to visit with Doctor Gerald Peterman to answer your
S1: Bible questions. Charlie, you got a devotional coming later on.
S1: We'll look forward to that. But up next we're talking
S1: with Stephano, a guy who's traveled the world with a
S1: passion to demonstrate the love of Christ, and he loves
S1: to climb mountains, climb anything that's climbable, and he does
S1: it with one goal in mind to connect with people
S1: who need Jesus, specifically Jewish people. Lots of great stories
S1: coming your way. Our website, as always, is the land
S1: and the books.org. Check it out for information about today's guest,
S1: past programs, future programs and more. That's the land and
S1: the book dot ORG coming up, climbing for Christ on
S1: the land and the book. For whatever reason, God seems
S1: to delight in using. What delights you to connect with
S1: other people to share the gospel. And he can use
S1: just about anything. You're about to meet a guy who
S1: loves to climb hills, mountains, walls. As I say, if
S1: it can be climbed, he absolutely wants to give it
S1: a try. What's more, today's guest has proven that he
S1: can combine his love of climbing with his passion to
S1: reach Jewish people for Christ. Whether that's in the United
S1: States or abroad. Welcome. This is the land and the book.
S1: I'm John Geiger. Before we start today's big climb, I
S1: want you to think with me creatively about ways that
S1: every one of us can build a bridge toward a
S1: Jewish friend or neighbor. Finding Yeshua in the Old Testament.
S1: Wouldn't you want your Jewish friend to find him there? Boy,
S1: that's my heart. And we're talking with Michael Riedel, who
S1: is the editor of the Moody Handbook of Messianic Prophecy.
S1: Some wisdom from you, Michael. What would you say?
S3: Well, it's not enough to point out that the Psalms
S3: say that Jesus died for us by crucifixion. Psalm 2216,
S3: but also that he was raised. It is crucial to
S3: see that the prophets foretold, and particularly the Book of
S3: Psalms foretold the Messiah would be raised from the dead
S3: in Psalm 1610. This is not talking about David. It says,
S3: for you will not abandon me to she'll. She'll is
S3: the place of the dead. That's all it really means
S3: in the Hebrew Bible. You will not allow your faithful one.
S3: One of the most common terms for the Messiah to
S3: undergo decay. Not only will he not stay dead in Sheol,
S3: but he'll be raised Before he actually undergoes any kind
S3: of day, sees any kind of corruption, no bodily decay.
S3: And so it's saying just very rapidly, there will be
S3: a resurrection that will happen. And so right there, that
S3: was one of the key points. Peter mentions it in
S3: acts two, and Paul mentions it in acts 13. I
S3: think this is one of the crucial Psalms that was
S3: pointed out that the Messiah not only would die for us,
S3: but that he would be raised from the dead.
S1: Finding Yeshua in the Old Testament a great tool to
S1: share with your friend as well. That's Doctor Michael Redlich
S1: on the land and the book. Today's guest grew up
S1: with the knowledge of God but no true relationship with God.
S1: After his grandmother died, he was swept into a gang
S1: life of alcohol, drugs and immorality. How all that changed
S1: is quite a story, but bigger than that is the
S1: story of God's call on his life to reach Jewish
S1: people with the gospel. And with that, we want to say,
S1: welcome back to Stefano. How are you doing, sir?
S4: Doing great. Thank you very much.
S1: And you'll notice we didn't use a last name, nor
S1: are we going to. In fact, we're just going to
S1: keep things simple with Stefano because in his line of ministry,
S1: there are security concerns, identity concerns. We need to protect
S1: all that he's doing in the places that he's doing it.
S1: And so it's just. Stefano. So we're glad to have
S1: you here. I just have to ask, Stefano, when did
S1: you know that God seemed to be tugging you toward
S1: ministry in a Jewish context?
S4: Actually, it was right here at Moody when I was attending.
S4: I spoke with Doctor Redlich and I was originally here
S4: for biblical studies, and after speaking with him in hermeneutics,
S4: he informed me that if I really wanted to understand Scripture,
S4: that I needed to understand the Jewish roots of our faith.
S4: And from that, then I got involved in Jewish studies
S4: and it just kept going. The ball just kept rolling
S4: down the hill from there.
S1: Let's back up a little bit and describe your love
S1: for climbing and all that's associated with that.
S4: Well, in my 20s, when I was living, not rightly,
S4: I would just see rock and decided to climb and
S4: see what would happen. No gear, no anything. Just, hey,
S4: let's see what happens.
S1: Wow. So you knew you had a thing for climbing.
S1: A love for climbing. Uh. Take us the next step.
S1: What happened then?
S4: Then after that, I would say when I attended Moody,
S4: I got involved with, um, another friend here, and she
S4: was the one who really introduced me into like, gear exists.
S4: And I was like, oh, so learning knots, learning how
S4: to climb, how to do things properly, how to tie in,
S4: how to belay people. And she kind of helped get
S4: the ball rolling. And then when I had my internship
S4: down in Argentina, then my friend down there really took
S4: it to the next level in forms of imparting all
S4: of his knowledge to me, and he continues to impart
S4: knowledge upon me.
S1: Now, you brought into the studio a couple of your
S1: climbing tools. You're all pro gear now. You're not just
S1: without the gear. You're you're doing it right. You're doing
S1: it safe. What did you bring with us and what
S1: do these things do?
S4: So the block that I have here is actually what
S4: I use on the plane or when I can't hang
S4: board properly. It's just a device that will give you
S4: different holds for 20 mil, ten mil using pockets and monos,
S4: which are one fingers.
S1: So this is like a strength building exercise thing.
S4: Yes.
S1: It's it's a wooden block, maybe six, eight inches long,
S1: 4 or 5in wide with cutouts for you to stick
S1: your fingers in there and work out.
S4: Yes. And then the device that is attached to it
S4: actually runs off of your off of your phone. So
S4: I can actually see how much force that I'm applying.
S4: And it helps me to do workouts. So when you
S4: can't use a proper hang board, then you at least
S4: can measure by pulling and do what is called like repeaters.
S4: Were you doing seven seconds on, three seconds off and
S4: get a at least some type of a workout when
S4: I can't actually get to the cliffs or to the
S4: climbing walls here.
S1: So there's a lot of preparation. There's a lot of training,
S1: a lot of strength building that goes into this. You
S1: don't just say, one day, I think I'm going to
S1: climb this mountain and go do it. You got to
S1: have some background.
S4: You can muscle through a lot of things in the beginning,
S4: but as you progress, you definitely need to understand how
S4: the body moves and center of mass, center of gravity
S4: and things like that.
S1: Stefano is a product of the Moody Bible Institute, a
S1: mountain climber by heart, by nature, I think. And he's
S1: taken this love of climbing and taking it with him
S1: all around the world. Been to Argentina, been to the
S1: Middle East. Tell us what God has helped you do
S1: in the Middle East.
S4: Well, right now I'm attending university in the Middle East,
S4: and the ministry of the Lord has called me into
S4: is predominantly climbing. So when I'm not studying or writing
S4: my thesis right now, then I'm just living at the
S4: crag basically, and waiting for people to show up. Or
S4: I'll be training in the bouldering gyms, talking to people
S4: and just building relationships by, you know, seeing people and
S4: speaking with them and, oh, you did good. Can you
S4: modify and try something different and just trying to engage
S4: in conversation and build relationship that way.
S1: In this Middle East context, you do regularly bump into
S1: people of a Jewish background. Is that fair? And what's
S1: that conversation like.
S4: When you meet people over there? It's just like any
S4: other normal conversation that you would have of climbing lingo or,
S4: you know, did you close this, this project today? Did
S4: you send that? So it's just like any other conversation
S4: that you would have. And what I like to do
S4: in terms of relationship building and in terms of assessing
S4: and seeing where they might be at, because based on
S4: where you're at in Israel, some people can be more
S4: open to the good news and some people maybe a
S4: little bit more closed. So I like to drop these
S4: little seeds that are kind of commonplace in Israeli, like
S4: in Hebrew language. And, you know, as I'm dropping these seeds,
S4: seeing what they pick up on what they don't, and
S4: kind of taking the conversation very fluidly as it moves
S4: from there.
S1: Stefano is a mountain climber or a climber of walls
S1: or a climber of anything you've got that can be climbed.
S1: He's our guest today on the land of the book.
S1: We're keeping his last name out of things because it
S1: just isn't necessary. So how do you turn a corner?
S1: Have you turned a corner? Have you had substantive spiritual
S1: discussions with any of these people that you climb with?
S4: Yes, actually, most recently within the past year on the
S4: on the high Holy days, we do climbing picnics with
S4: me and a couple of friends, and most recently wasn't
S4: Shavuot for Pesach for Passover. We had a climbing picnic
S4: and a friend from university had come with me. I
S4: was able to share the good news with him. And
S4: then while he was there, I had four other friends
S4: who all shared the good news with him. Really on
S4: separate occasions. And then one of my friends actually took
S4: him not only to the bus stop, but took him
S4: really far away to where he was going. And she
S4: explained about, you know, messianic worship. And he had never
S4: heard and never knew that the Jewish people could sing
S4: in such a way. And he was very enthralled by this, really.
S4: And ever since, he's been asking me questions. And with
S4: about a few weeks ago, uh, he had called me
S4: and we had a great discussion about like free will
S4: and the Lord and how everything kind of works, like
S4: some really deep theological questions that he was asking as
S4: he's trying to understand what a relationship with the Lord
S4: looks like.
S1: Whether you're abroad or in the United States or in
S1: the Middle East, do you sense a a spiritual hunger
S1: on the part of Jewish people?
S4: I would say it's more along the lines of what
S4: Paul said, where they have a zeal for God, but
S4: not according to knowledge, I would say is the most
S4: apt description from what I've seen, especially when you're getting
S4: into more of the westernized cities, it's very, uh, very
S4: secular or people just do it because this is what
S4: I grew up doing. So that's what what I would
S4: say about that.
S1: How effective do you think your passion for mountain climbing,
S1: your time spent doing this with so many different people?
S1: How effective is that, do you think? Are you convinced
S1: that it's still a viable thing?
S4: Yes. Uh, it's very different having people in the home,
S4: in their community, in their neighborhood, to where you've always
S4: got eyes and ears on you. And then when you
S4: are able to remove people from that and take them
S4: into climbing into these crags that are some of them
S4: are pretty secluded and you're just able to be free
S4: and just have like one on one conversations with them.
S4: And you really get into some really deep nitty gritty
S4: that you can't when you're at like a cafe, like a, uh,
S4: a coffee house or things like that.
S1: So what are some of the typical objections that you've
S1: bumped into as you've tried to build bridges or even
S1: share something of your faith.
S4: The question of sin, the Shoah, the Holocaust have been
S4: two questions or two hiccups that I've run into, especially
S4: with having someone who's had children die and not understanding
S4: how a good God can allow that to happen. Those
S4: are about the two biggest objections that I regularly get.
S1: Yeah. Stefano joins us today on the land in the book.
S1: He's a guy that loves to climb, and he's sharing
S1: that love of climbing and his love of Christ with
S1: people everywhere he goes. He's got quite a passport there
S1: and lots of stamps in it. His heart is to
S1: reach Jewish people wherever they might be. How can we
S1: pray for you? Gio, in the ministry that's ahead for you.
S4: Well, I would say that the Lord would just continue
S4: to provide and make his ways clear. I have an
S4: idea to start a training facility where I'm at About
S4: that would allow me to train people in climbing and
S4: also be able to send people because Israelis like to travel.
S4: So it would be able to connect with other people
S4: from different, uh, organizations that also do something similar and
S4: kind of use it as, okay, well, if you're going
S4: to go to this place, I know someone here who
S4: will be able to love on you and be able
S4: to help you and take you climbing, or you can
S4: go here and just be able to, you know, in
S4: one facet, have people with training and just kind of
S4: give them a love for outdoor climbing because there's so
S4: much really good rock quality and a lot of good
S4: crags that are where I'm at that a lot of
S4: people just don't go to because they don't have gear
S4: or they're not really familiar. So a lot of them
S4: are just kind of stuck climbing on plastic. And it's
S4: there's so much more. And especially being able to see
S4: God's land and be able to see the different rock
S4: types in such a small country. That's about the size
S4: of new Jersey. To have so many different types of
S4: rock quality and in different kind of climates, all within
S4: such a small place is just amazing.
S1: If you'd like to learn more about Stefano, ways that
S1: you can pray for him specifically, we welcome you to
S1: email us at the land and the book@moody.edu. The land
S1: and the book@moody.edu. And then we'll point you to Stefano
S1: and he can connect with you further. Well, I have
S1: to ask, what are your top two favorite spots to
S1: climb in Israel? You've climbed all over the world, but
S1: what about Israel?
S4: Nezer cave is one of my favorites. It's actually a
S4: dream crag for me because it is some of the
S4: hardest climbing in the world that's there. Uh, you have
S4: different grading system between like five and nine, and the
S4: nines are exceedingly rare throughout the world. And one of
S4: them is in Israel, and I'll probably never be able
S4: to climb that because I'm. I'm way too old for that.
S4: But there's a lot of like sevens and eights that
S4: are just very beautiful. They're some really challenging climbing that
S4: I just would love to be able to climb there.
S4: I've done a few of the warm ups for, for,
S4: for the strong climbers that didn't feel like warm ups.
S4: And other than that, there is also Mikhmas, which is
S4: where Jonathan and his armor bearer climbed. And that also
S4: has some really, really good climbing. Not as hard as cave,
S4: but it definitely has some really strong climbs, and it
S4: holds a really sentimental place in my heart. For one
S4: of my favorite stories in scripture.
S1: Put both of these places on the map for us
S1: Nezer cave. And then we're Yonatan.
S4: Jonathan climbed and Nezer Cave is up in the Golan,
S4: so you can actually throw a rock and hit Lebanon
S4: from from the cave. Okay. And then Mikhmas is right
S4: in Judea, Samaria, just north and a little west of, uh, Jerusalem. Yeah.
S1: Well, Stefano, we just love the fact that you have
S1: taken this passion that God has given you and have
S1: used it, and are fired up about doing even more
S1: to reach Jewish people. Thank you for doing that. And
S1: our prayers are with you. We want to hear more
S1: from you too, brother.
S4: Thank you sir.
S1: Coming up on the land in the book, your friend
S1: and mine, Gerald Peterman, taking a look at the latest
S1: Bible questions that have come to us. We look forward
S1: to that. Next on the land and the book. Welcome
S1: back to the land and the book segment three. If
S1: you're a regular, you know what this is Bible questions
S1: and answers. And if you're new to the program, you
S1: know what this segment is about. Bible questions and answers.
S1: Let me say hello and introduce you to Doctor Gerald Peterman.
S1: Tell us about yourself, your tenure at Moody, your favorite
S1: Bible subjects to teach.
S5: Oh wow. The list is endless. I get to teach
S5: New Testament Greek. I get to teach Romans the Gospel
S5: of John. Biblical theology of suffering. It is so good. Uh,
S5: wonderful students, wonderful colleagues. I've been here since 2002 and wow. Uh,
S5: having a really good time.
S1: Yeah. How about your family? A little background there, too.
S5: Uh, married for 42 years. Have two daughters, two granddaughters. Um,
S5: we're probably going to have a trip to celebrate here
S5: pretty soon, so.
S1: That sounds fun. Well, before we get to questions, let's
S1: think about this for just a minute. As believers, there's
S1: a great need for us to share the gospel with
S1: the Jewish people. In fact, many of our listeners faithfully
S1: pray and partner with ministries that are doing just that.
S1: But what if you could personally take part in bringing
S1: the gospel to Jewish people? Well, our friends at Life
S1: in Messiah would love the opportunity to get believers involved
S1: in Jewish ministry, and they regularly organize outreach teams to Brooklyn,
S1: South Florida, and even to Israel outside of times of conflict.
S1: And these ministry trips will equip you to understand how
S1: to share the gospel with Jewish people, give you the
S1: opportunity to actively share your faith and provide tools and
S1: resources that you can take home with you. If you
S1: want to get hands on training, you want practical experience
S1: in Jewish evangelism, this is your ticket. Learn more by
S1: visiting Life in messiah.org and clicking on the Moody radio button.
S1: That's life in messiah.org. All right, let's get to our
S1: stack of questions today. The first one being from Theo,
S1: who get this is just seven years old. He says, hi,
S1: I'm seven years old. I live in Laurel, Nebraska. And
S1: my question is, can people in heaven see what's happening
S1: on earth?
S5: Wow, that is wonderful. I'm so glad to have young
S5: listeners courageous, wanting to have questions. So I'm a little
S5: bit unsure about the answer to this question. My opinion
S5: is we're not going to be like angels who can
S5: fly around and investigate whatever we want. But I do
S5: think that when we're in heaven, God will give us
S5: some insight into what he's continuing to accomplish. Now, why
S5: do I say that? I say that because of passages
S5: like Luke 15, verse ten, where our Lord Jesus says,
S5: the angels in heaven rejoice over one sinner who repents.
S5: And I suspect there might be times when God lets
S5: us in on the advance of the gospel, lets us
S5: see where the gospel is going so that we can
S5: rejoice with him in the heavenly court in the advance
S5: of his work. Let me give you another example. This
S5: is from revelation six. After the fifth seal was opened,
S5: John said, I saw under the altar the souls of
S5: those who had been slain for the word of God,
S5: and for the witness they had borne. They cried out
S5: with a loud voice, O sovereign Lord, holy and true,
S5: how long before you will judge and avenge our blood
S5: on those who dwell on the earth. So these martyrs have.
S5: What I take it is a godly longing to see
S5: God's justice, which means they know it hasn't happened yet.
S1: Yeah, they have an awareness that it has not occurred.
S5: So I wonder if when we're in heaven, God will
S5: give us some awareness of what has not happened and
S5: what he is doing. But what exactly that's going to be. Theo,
S5: I'm sorry. I do not know.
S1: Yeah. And on the other hand, I think people take
S1: it to an extreme. You often hear, you know, people
S1: sort of wanting to comfort themselves that that grandpa is
S1: leaning over the clouds and smiling as he sees junior
S1: fishing at his favorite spot. Maybe not, maybe not.
S5: I mean, I don't doubt that God can give that
S5: if he wants, but I don't think he's going to
S5: give us all that we long for. I think he's
S5: going to give us just enough to keep us thrilled
S5: about his work.
S1: I mean, on the other hand, you know, we could
S1: say if these are pretty much the only accounts we have.
S1: And I think that's true. There really isn't a lot
S1: there about grandpas who are able to lean over the
S1: clouds and find junior fishing.
S5: There's very little. Very little indeed. Yes.
S1: All right, let's go on to Samuel's question. He's wondering
S1: about Proverbs 29, verse 18. It says, where there is
S1: no vision, the people perish. What kind of vision do
S1: we need?
S5: That is a great question. I have heard a pastor
S5: sometimes kind of facetiously, kind of tongue in cheek, paraphrased this,
S5: and he paraphrases it like this where the church has
S5: no vision, the people leave for another parish. But in
S5: that case, vision means like a long term plan. In
S5: Proverbs 29, our term for vision, Hebrew word hazzan. It
S5: means just the Word of God. It means truth comes
S5: from God to his people or to his prophet. So
S5: we go to say Isaiah one one, and what do
S5: we find? The vision of Isaiah, the son of Amos,
S5: which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. And then what
S5: do we have? We have some starry hosts seen on
S5: the horizon. No, actually, he just points out the sins
S5: of God's people and what they should be doing in
S5: terms of repentance. In other words, the vision is the
S5: Word of God. So without a vision, that is, without
S5: God's Word, people perish. That is, we must have God's
S5: Word to live both live eternally and to live well
S5: in the now.
S1: You know, I think that's a really important point that
S1: you just made. So many of us, I think, in
S1: our immaturity, come at the Bible and say, that's nice.
S1: It's good that God gave us his special book, and
S1: I'm a good boy. I'm a good girl for reading it.
S1: No no, no no no. It is life. And apart
S1: from time in that word, obedience to that word, meditating
S1: on that word, our lives are pretty miserable.
S5: Yeah. Think of it just as an instruction manual for life.
S5: You know, instruction manual for relationships, instruction manual for where
S5: should my heart be? What should I be pursuing? I mean,
S5: if you were going to work as a plumber, I
S5: wouldn't want to. But if you're going to work as
S5: a plumber, you had better know your subject. And so
S5: with Scripture as well, if you're going to live life
S5: as a believer, you need its instruction.
S1: Yeah. Let's, let's be done with the optionality of time
S1: in the word. No, this is the land in the
S1: book from Moody Radio, our partner in crime, Doctor Gerald
S1: Peterman of the Moody Bible Institute. Faculty always welcomes your questions.
S1: You can email them to him at the land and
S1: the book@moody.edu. The land and the book@moody.edu. From Terry comes
S1: this question can you shed some light on why John
S1: the Baptist still has disciples after he pointed people to Jesus?
S1: It's reference, for example, in Mark two verse 18.
S5: Well, the short answer to this question is that many
S5: preferred John's lifestyle. They thought just his personality and his
S5: lifestyle was more was more compelling. And they thought Jesus's
S5: life and his discipleship or his lifestyle would just like inappropriate.
S5: They didn't understand or accept what Jesus was doing compared
S5: to John the Baptist. I'm thinking about a particular example
S5: from Luke seven. We find something like this. Jesus tells
S5: us about different reactions to him and to John. So
S5: Jesus says, John the Baptist came eating no bread and
S5: drinking no wine. And you say, he has a demon,
S5: and the Son of Man has come eating and drinking.
S5: And you say, look at him, a glutton and a drunkard,
S5: a friend of tax collectors and sinners. So yes, in
S5: John chapter one verse 36, John the Baptist points at
S5: Jesus and he says, look, the Lamb of God who
S5: takes away the sin of the world. And then what
S5: does the rest of the verse tell us? Two of
S5: John's disciples follow Jesus. Not all of them. Two of them.
S5: So some find Jesus compelling, some do not. I don't
S5: think we should be surprised. It's the same in the
S5: 21st century. You can have the truth about Jesus told
S5: to you, and you can find him compelling by the
S5: work of God's Spirit. Or you might not find him
S5: compelling by the hardness of your own heart.
S1: I want to stay with this figure. John the Baptist
S1: for just a moment. I'm intrigued. If you read this account,
S1: what you learn is that on two consecutive days, we
S1: find John the Baptist saying, Behold the Lamb of God
S1: who takes away. Right? You get the idea. This was
S1: not a one and done thing for him. This was
S1: his mission. He got it. He loved it. He lived it.
S5: Yes, yes. And it's and it's in John's Gospel, right?
S5: He says, behold the Lamb of God who takes away
S5: the sin of the world. But you read Matthew, Mark,
S5: and Luke, and he is pointing to the one who
S5: comes after him. So he's always pointing away. Yeah. And
S5: then you get in, John as well. You get when
S5: many disciples go after Jesus. What does John say? That's okay. Yeah.
S5: He must increase, I must decrease.
S1: You gotta love his humility, his laser focus on his calling.
S5: He knows what his mission is for sure.
S1: One other thing that has always sort of been abrupt
S1: for me, and he's imprisoned by Herod, and there he is.
S1: And he gets his head chopped off. It's kind of
S1: like a part of me says on a human level.
S1: Wait a minute, wait a minute. Here's this guy who's
S1: been faithful to his calling. He's faithfully drawn people to Jesus.
S1: He's humble. He says, behold the Lamb of God who
S1: takes away the sins of the world. And yet he
S1: still ends up getting his head chopped off. Well, clearly,
S1: my my view of what should happen to folks who
S1: are faithful is different than God's. Talk to me for
S1: just a minute.
S5: That is a tough question. That is a tough question
S5: because much of our life, we view our life as
S5: work and reward.
S1: Yes.
S5: And from a kind of a human perspective, I do this.
S5: I get that right. I work hard at my job.
S5: I get a raise. I work hard at home. I
S5: get praise from my kids or my spouse. I'm sorry. Um,
S5: this is one of the really tough things about discipleship.
S5: We don't get to decide which is which. We work
S5: and we love and we study and we persevere through trial.
S5: And sometimes God blesses us in ways we'd expect, and
S5: sometimes he rewards us in ways we do not expect.
S5: And it's hard. Wow.
S1: Hey, email your question to us at the land and
S1: the book@moody.edu and stick around for a devotional from the
S1: one and only doctor Charlie Dyer. Its next coming up
S1: on the land and the book from Moody Radio. It
S1: has to be one of the most fascinating stops in
S1: any tour to Israel. I'm talking about Beit She'an. It's
S1: the drive down the Jordan Valley that takes you to
S1: the place where something rather horrible took place. But as
S1: you explore its ruins today, wow, what a view, particularly
S1: if you do as producer Dan Anderson and I have
S1: done several times. Hike up to the top of the
S1: hill and look down. Well, all of that and more
S1: in Charlie Dyer's devotional coming up. But first, let's pause
S1: for this Holy Land experience.
S6: So one of the most impactful moments of my time
S6: in Israel was standing on top of Masada, and I
S6: was amazed at how Masada was such a provision by
S6: the Lord for people like David, who was running from
S6: his enemies. And God provided a place of security and
S6: safety in the midst of danger and fear. And I
S6: just will never forget how suddenly Psalm 18 came to
S6: mind when David talks about the Lord is my rock,
S6: my fortress, my deliverer. I can picture David envisioning Masada
S6: as how God provided for him and gave him security
S6: and safety while he was being pursued by his enemies.
S6: And Masada has continued throughout history to be a source
S6: of safety and security for the Jewish people and seeing
S6: where that history took place. When I see Masada, I
S6: see how God provided in those times.
S1: Charlie, I love Beit She'an and I know you do too.
S1: But we're not here for the mere history of it.
S1: You've got a life lesson for us, too.
S2: Oh, yeah. In fact, one of the most tragic and
S2: yet significant life lessons comes from that spot. And actually,
S2: for the next several weeks, I want you to join
S2: me as we drive down the Jordan Valley from the
S2: Sea of Galilee toward the Dead Sea. Now, for those
S2: who have never been to Israel, the Jordan River seems
S2: to be something of a mystery. The empire of ancient
S2: Egypt flourished along the Nile River. Egypt was the gift
S2: of the Nile and the civilizations of Assyria and Babylon
S2: grew up along the banks of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers,
S2: but relatively few towns can be found near the Jordan River. Well,
S2: now that we're here driving down the Jordan Valley, what
S2: doesn't make sense on a map will make perfect sense
S2: to our eyes. The first thing you'll notice are the
S2: mountains on both sides of the valley. The Jordan Valley
S2: is a geological fault line, part of the Great Rift
S2: that extends from Turkey down into Africa. The hills on
S2: both sides are relatively steep, and here, just south of
S2: the Sea of Galilee, covered in brown grass. In about
S2: two months the winter rains will begin and these brown
S2: hillsides will turn green. These hills provide excellent grazing for
S2: cattle and sheep, but they're too rugged and steep for
S2: growing crops. Now look toward your left, down into the
S2: bottom of the valley. Do you see the rugged, tan
S2: colored hills bracketing each side of the river bottom? The
S2: Jordan River meanders its way through that half mile to
S2: mile wide stretch of ground between those hills. The distance
S2: between the Sea of Galilee and the Dead Sea is
S2: just over 65 miles. But because of all the twists
S2: and turns, the actual length of the Jordan River is
S2: 135 miles more than double the distance. The Sea of
S2: Galilee is about 680ft below sea level, and the Dead
S2: Sea is over 1400ft below sea level. The heat and humidity,
S2: along with all the vegetation growing along its banks, makes
S2: the Jordan River feel more like a jungle than like
S2: those other river systems in the Middle East. In fact,
S2: God described the area as the thickets by the Jordan
S2: in Jeremiah 125, no doubt picturing the thick, tangled vegetation
S2: growing there. Most of the time, this valley was a hindrance,
S2: not a help to those living in the land. People
S2: tried to avoid the Jordan River, with the exception of
S2: three major spots where the river could be forded or crossed.
S2: And it's those three spots we want to visit on
S2: our multi-week journey. And we reached the first stopping point
S2: the ancient city of Beit She'an, 15 miles south of
S2: the Sea of Galilee for most visitors to Israel. Beit
S2: She'an is an amazing surprise. Ruins of a Roman city
S2: destroyed by an earthquake defy description. A large theater, gymnasium
S2: and bathhouse, colonnaded streets and even public restrooms give visitors
S2: a portal into what life was like in the Roman Empire.
S2: Beit She'an importance came from its location. The city straddled
S2: a major east west highway extending from the Mediterranean through
S2: the Jezreel Valley and across the Jordan River into the
S2: mountains of Gilead. This was the northernmost of the three
S2: spots where the Jordan River could be forded, and it
S2: provided a connection between the international highway that crossed through
S2: the Jezreel Valley and the King's Highway that stretched south
S2: from Damascus to the Red sea, cutting through Gilead. But
S2: as we stand here in the theater, I don't want
S2: us to focus on the Roman ruins at Beit She'an,
S2: at least not right now, or the highway that passed nearby. Instead,
S2: I want you to look at the hill just in
S2: front of us. That's the spot where the original city
S2: of Beit She'an once stood. And that hill is a
S2: sad monument to the failure of Saul. Israel's first king.
S2: To study the life of Saul is to uncover the
S2: tragedy of a king who never lived up to his potential.
S2: Saul was chosen by God, anointed by Samuel, and empowered
S2: by the Holy Spirit. He started well, but a series
S2: of personal failures led to his catastrophic downfall. Saul's problems
S2: began with incomplete obedience. He was told to wait in
S2: Gilgal seven days for Samuel to arrive and offer a sacrifice.
S2: Saul waited six days and 23 hours almost the whole time,
S2: but not quite. God ordered Saul to destroy the Amalekites,
S2: and he wiped out most of them. But not quite. All, though,
S2: seemed like minor imperfections, small flaws that most would overlook,
S2: but not if the one doing the inspecting is the
S2: God of the universe. God describes Saul's incomplete obedience as
S2: rebellion and insubordination. Saul's inability to fully obey God ultimately
S2: cost him his kingdom and his life. God was no
S2: longer with him, and Saul's forces suffered a catastrophic defeat
S2: on Mount Gilboa, just a few miles from where we're
S2: now standing. When the battle was over, the Philistines had
S2: defeated Saul's army and driven a wedge into Israel, splitting
S2: the country in two. They controlled the Jezreel Valley all
S2: the way to the Jordan River. And as for Saul,
S2: when the Philistines came the next day to strip the slain,
S2: they found Saul and his three sons fallen on Mount Gilboa,
S2: and they cut off his head and stripped off his weapons,
S2: and sent them throughout the land of the Philistines to
S2: carry the good news to the house of their idols
S2: and to the people. And they put his weapons in
S2: the temple of Ashteroth. And they fastened his body to
S2: the wall of Beit She'an. That hill right in front
S2: of you became the Philistines Trophy case. The headless body
S2: of Saul, along with the bodies of his sons, dangled
S2: from the walls in the hot sun, the stench of
S2: rotting flesh filling the air. Saul started well, but he
S2: never mastered the truth that God expects his followers to
S2: obey completely. And the consequences for disobedience are too tragic
S2: to even consider as an option. Our first stop on
S2: this journey down the Jordan is a sobering reminder that
S2: disobedience brings consequences. Saul offered excuses, but in the end,
S2: his so-called little mistakes resulted in catastrophic personal failure. So
S2: what should we take away from our time here at
S2: Beit She'an, along the Jordan River? How about this? The
S2: world might excuse failure and try to minimize consequences for mistakes,
S2: but God expects his followers to live by a higher standard.
S2: The choice in front of us every single day is
S2: faithfulness or failure, and the consequences for both are huge.
S1: Boy, those are sobering words and a great reminder that
S1: every single one of us needs. I do thank you, Charlie. Well,
S1: you know, our website is loaded up with stuff to
S1: help you connect better with this broadcast, whether it's a
S1: guest that you'd like to learn a bit more about
S1: a resource or two books that Charlie and I have
S1: written information about past programs, future programs, you'll find it
S1: all at the land and the book.org, the land and
S1: the book.org. I want to talk for a moment about
S1: our podcast, Charlie, because so many people don't live anywhere
S1: near a radio station that carries the program. And maybe
S1: you do listen via the radio. Great for you. But
S1: for those who don't talk about the podcast, Charlie.
S2: Yeah, it's a great way to share with your friends
S2: if you think they would love to listen to the
S2: land in the book, but aren't near a radio station,
S2: they can go to the land in the book.org, Click
S2: there and find the the program. They can listen to
S2: past programs, the current program. They can listen to it
S2: at any time. And that's the genius of it. It
S2: allows people who aren't near a radio station or maybe
S2: are near one, but were away from home or away
S2: from the station when the program was on to listen again,
S2: to hear the program for another time. But this is
S2: their opportunity to hear the program. That's what they can
S2: share with their friends.
S1: Okay. And you find that podcast at the land and
S1: the book dot ORG the land and the book dot ORG.
S1: One final reminder, if you've got a Bible question that's
S1: been tugging at you, it's been keeping you up at night,
S1: why not email that to us at the land and
S1: the book@moody.edu, the land and the book@moody.edu. Our time is gone,
S1: but great hanging out with you today. The land in
S1: the book is a production of Moody Radio, the Ministry
S1: of Moody Bible Institute.