S1: Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
S1: and I truly hope you hear something that edifies encourage, equips, enlightens,
S1: and then gets you out there in the marketplace of ideas.
S1: But before you go, I want to tell you about
S1: this month's truth tool. It's called Have You Ever Wondered?
S1: And I absolutely love this topic because if you're like me,
S1: going out into the night sky and looking up and
S1: seeing a million stars, don't you just stop and think
S1: about God? And are you not in a moment of
S1: awe and wonder or looking out over the vast expanse
S1: of an ocean and you start thinking, what is man,
S1: that thou art mindful of him? And it makes you
S1: wonder about the magnificence of God? I think that sense
S1: of wonder was put there on purpose, and this wonderful
S1: book includes a composite of multiple authors who have written
S1: from their perspective as a scientist, or a historian, or
S1: a mathematician or an artist, on why they all have
S1: this sense of awe through the work that they do.
S1: In other words, the heavens declare the glory. And as
S1: it tells us in Romans, we are really without excuse
S1: because his handiwork is everywhere. And this book invites you
S1: to walk through the chapters written by people who all
S1: have a sense of awe and wonder when it comes
S1: to God through their various disciplines in life. It's an
S1: amazing book and it's yours. For a gift of any amount,
S1: just call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58. Ask
S1: for a copy of Have You Ever Wondered? And we'll
S1: send it right off to you as my way of
S1: saying thank you, because we are listener supported radio. Or
S1: you can go online to in the market with Janet
S1: Parshall and you're also on the website, consider becoming a
S1: partial partner. Those are people who give every single month
S1: at a level of their own choosing. You always get
S1: the truth tool, but in addition to that, you get
S1: a weekly newsletter that includes my writing and an audio
S1: piece just for my partial partners. So 877 Janet 58
S1: or the website in the market with Janet parshall.org consider
S1: becoming a partial partner or asking for this month's truth tool.
S1: Have you ever wondered? And now please enjoy the broadcast.
S2: You are mighty. You are holy. You are awesome. In
S2: your power. You have risen, you have conquered. You have
S2: beaten the power of death.
S1: That's pretty good news, isn't it? I'm so glad you're
S1: going to spend the hour with me. Friends. Welcome to
S1: In the Market with Janet Parshall. I think it was
S1: important to start out remembering exactly how big and great
S1: and awesome is our king. Do I need to give
S1: you any more evidence for the reality of spiritual warfare?
S1: I mean, we're watching conflicts in the Middle East. If
S1: that isn't a spiritual war, I don't know what is.
S1: You got to realize that we got one nation who
S1: believes in their eschatology, that if they can annihilate the
S1: Jewish Zionist regime, their words, not mine, that they can
S1: bring about their Mahdi, which is their Messiah, and they
S1: can islamicize the whole world. That's their spiritual blindness, by
S1: the way. You see what goes on where lawlessness is now,
S1: filling the streets of America, where suddenly the whole idea
S1: of the rule of law, which, by the way, let
S1: the record reflect, your Honor, is there because our basic
S1: nature says if you don't have self-control given to you
S1: through the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit, you need
S1: a government to box check you. And that's why God
S1: creates three important institutions in this order family, government, the church.
S1: Does it ever bother you that he created government before
S1: the church? It does me. It reminds me how much
S1: we need those boundaries. So when lawlessness takes up residency
S1: in the streets of America, that should bother you. That is,
S1: at its core, spiritual warfare. When you've got drag queens
S1: dancing on the floor of the assembly of the State
S1: of Oregon, that's spiritual warfare. Um, that's also a hallmark
S1: that a civilization is collapsing. I mean, the list goes
S1: on and on and on. So much of the stuff
S1: we watch, it isn't a matter of saying, oh, you know,
S1: the devil made me do it, but it is a
S1: matter of recognizing that he is called the prince of
S1: this world for a reason. And there's a lot of
S1: stuff we're seeing in the news today that gives evidence
S1: to the fact that he thinks he's getting away with it. Well,
S1: check your watch. Oh, yeah. It doesn't end well for him.
S1: But in the meantime, he's leaving a wake of destruction
S1: in his path. Which you and I are. The men
S1: and women of God. We are to suit up, get
S1: up and get out into this world that's upside down.
S1: And you don't have any kind of a victory unless,
S1: number one, you know who your commander. Commander in chief is.
S1: Number two, you understand he is the conqueror. Okay? And
S1: greater is he that is in us than he that
S1: is in the world. And number three. Hello. You believe
S1: in the reality of spiritual warfare? If you don't. Well,
S1: I'll tell you what. I think you're just trying to
S1: feel your way in the dark. And that's why we
S1: have conversations on a regular basis with Doctor Carl Payne.
S1: I never in a million years thought we'd be talking
S1: about this all the time. But, gosh, if you take
S1: George Barna's research, he does it at the Cultural Research
S1: Center at Arizona Christian University. It's not the world that's
S1: got a problem. It's us. It's the church. What do
S1: you mean? The Bible isn't the word of God. It
S1: just contains the Word of God. Let me tell you,
S1: there's a space about as big as the Grand Canyon.
S1: Between those two ideas, God breathed, ordained, inspired, an errant, transcendent, immutable.
S1: And if you don't believe it isn't. It isn't the
S1: Word of God, not just contains the Word of God.
S1: You got a problem right out of the gate. But
S1: when you subscribe to that idea that it just contains
S1: not is, well, then you start believing things like Satan
S1: is not real. It's not a real entity. Jesus sinned.
S1: Jesus isn't the only way of salvation. And all of
S1: a sudden you've got the devolution of the core center
S1: of your belief because you haven't looked at the Word
S1: of God and claimed it to be what it is.
S1: God breathed, inspired, inerrant, transcended, immutable. And one of those
S1: issues in the 21st century is the idea of spiritual warfare.
S1: So Doctor Carl Payne comes on a regular basis and
S1: teaches us about this. He's a pastor, a teacher, a speaker,
S1: an author, former chaplain for the Seattle Seahawks. And I
S1: do not hold that against him by any stretch of
S1: the imagination. He's on staff at Antioch Bible Church in Redmond, Washington.
S1: His primary role there is serving as the pastor of
S1: Leadership Development and Discipleship Training. And I'm going to say
S1: it again because I mean it. I don't get paid
S1: to say this. I'm saying it because I believe it.
S1: One of the best books out there is called Spiritual
S1: Warfare Christians Demonization and Deliverance. It's been updated, it's been reprinted.
S1: And I know so many of you have gotten that book,
S1: and I'm so glad because you love it when he
S1: comes to visit. Here's what else you know when he
S1: comes to visit, we open the phone lines and we're
S1: going to take your questions. Questions only on the topic
S1: of spiritual warfare. 187754836758775483675. The topic on the table is
S1: spiritual warfare. Any question you've got. And we're going to
S1: take questions the entire hour. But Carl pull up a chair.
S1: Make yourself comfortable. I so look forward to these conversations.
S1: And I was thinking of all the things I wanted
S1: to ask you. And I usually try to pull a
S1: story because the headlines are replete with at least a
S1: hat tap on the hat, or some kind of a
S1: recognition that the occult is ascending. In fact, I just
S1: wrote a radio commentary called No Hocus Pocus because the
S1: numbers of Christians who are using tarot cards is growing. What? What?
S1: I mean, what part of don't have anything to do
S1: with it don't you get? But Christians are using horoscopes
S1: and they're playing tarot cards. I don't get it. But also,
S1: I have a problem inside the church as well. Because
S1: if you don't believe in the reality of spiritual warfare
S1: that has a dominoes effect on a series of other
S1: key doctrinal positions, it seems to me as well. So
S1: for you, if you talk about spiritual warfare and you
S1: have been present, and I know you didn't sign up
S1: for this, God called you to it. When demons have
S1: been cast out of individuals, it wasn't Hollywood. It wasn't
S1: hocus pocus. It was the real deal. And you've seen it.
S1: Do you think in your life and your walk with Christ,
S1: if you've seen the manifestation, the manifestation of demonic powers? Likewise,
S1: could you ever give a testimony to saying I knew
S1: beyond a shadow of a doubt that was angelic?
S3: Oh my goodness. Well, first, before I take your question,
S3: I have to say what? Good afternoon, young lady.
S1: I thank you, sir.
S3: And you are. And you are right. We love each
S3: other in spite of the fact that we root for
S3: different teams. But when my team is playing your team,
S3: I have to go mine. But if your team is
S3: playing someone else, I'll root for them because of you.
S3: So we'll just have to have to make sure that
S3: people know that.
S1: And the feeling's mutual. By the way.
S3: Our bond is greater than our two teams.
S1: That's exactly right.
S3: I think I had to several thoughts going through my mind,
S3: you know, when you open that. But I'll try and
S3: catch your first one first so I don't miss it,
S3: but then come back at the other, please. Um, first,
S3: if you had said to me what I imagine when
S3: I first, uh, you know, became aware of this, well,
S3: first I was so unaware of it, I didn't know
S3: what to think about it. You know, most of the
S3: time it was just something that if you talked about
S3: mediums and, you know, spiritism and such, it would just
S3: be like, I don't have time for that Ouija boards.
S3: It's like, who has time for goofy stuff? It was
S3: something that wasn't on the radar. I think a because
S3: there was still a lot of, uh, even non-Christians just saying,
S3: I don't I don't have time for that stuff. And
S3: Christians certainly would have said, uh, uh, so I guess
S3: the difference would not be did it happen? And were
S3: there angelic things going on? But one would I have
S3: recognized it? And b the difference between where instead of
S3: being snuck in, but they're now just blatantly putting our
S3: faces and almost daring you to say something. What a
S3: difference in the decades.
S1: Yeah. Yeah. Boy, isn't that true? You hear the music.
S1: I know you want to see more. Let me ask
S1: you to pick it up on the other side. In
S1: the meantime, I want to give you our phone number again. 87754836758775483675.
S1: Questions only. On the topic of spiritual warfare. It is
S1: a reality. Let's separate fact from fiction. Don't let the
S1: world teach you theology. Thank you, Doctor Michael Easley. You
S1: want a word to teach you back after this? Have
S1: you ever wondered why music moves us so deeply? Or
S1: why beauty takes our breath away? My Truth Tool this
S1: month is a thought provoking book that explores those moments
S1: of wonder we all encounter. It's called. Have You ever Wondered?
S1: Consider how ordinary aspects of life point to the extraordinary
S1: biblical truths. Ask for your copy of. Have you ever
S1: wondered when you give a gift of any amount in
S1: the market, call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58
S1: or go to in the market with Janet Parshall. Doctor
S1: Carl Payne is with us and we are talking about
S1: spiritual warfare. We're taking your questions at (877) 548-3675. I love
S1: this song and on the whole 877 I'll Spare You
S1: (877) 548-3675 and Carl, I've already got people lined up, but
S1: I still want to get your thoughts because I was
S1: asking you in the work that God has called you to,
S1: and I know you didn't sign up. You were drafted
S1: into his army in this particular area about whether or
S1: not if you had seen the demonic action and you
S1: have you been there when they've been cast out of people?
S1: Have you ever had an experience where you could point
S1: to and say, I know definitively that was an angelic presence?
S1: I mean, Hebrew says, hey, be careful. You could be
S1: entertaining an angel, but you don't know it. Right. So
S1: you had other things to say about the opening, so
S1: please go before. I'd love to hear more of your
S1: thoughts before we go to the phones.
S3: Okay. And thank you for bringing me back, because maybe
S3: I just missed I. Janet, I don't have any question
S3: that I've been dealing with supernatural we call angelic or
S3: I call it supernatural. Have I over the years? No.
S3: No question. I mean, it could be as simple as
S3: as I'll give you a couple of examples, but maybe
S3: someone would say they're extreme because of, uh, because I
S3: remember them. But besides the fact and I guess the
S3: biggest would just be when we command them to go
S3: and the person's life does a 180 and absolute change. Carl,
S3: I've got my mind back. I can think again. The
S3: thing that was laying on me is gone. A year later,
S3: two years later, three years later, Carl still checking in things.
S3: It's changed. I mean, that I suppose ultimately, just pragmatically. But.
S3: But something, you know, maybe you're you're wondering or for listeners,
S3: it would be like when I have someone that came
S3: in here and I don't do this very often because
S3: I don't give demons anything to think they're in control
S3: of something. It it emboldens them. But I have an
S3: individual come in, and this was way early. It was 83.
S3: So I you know, I'm still learning, but I was
S3: really learning then. And he said, well, I believe this
S3: is going on, but how do I know this is real?
S3: And I did something that I don't do very often.
S3: I said, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
S3: I was sitting in my office. Uh, Yeah. Demons that
S3: are involved with in his name. You're permitted to show
S3: him your real, but you're not permitted to hurt him
S3: in the process. The name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
S3: do it now. We command that through the Lord Jesus Christ.
S3: Boxes in my room started moving around. I mean, I
S3: watched them with my own eyes and he looks over
S3: at me and he says, you don't have any strings
S3: on your fingers, do you? And I said, no, I don't.
S3: He said, okay, this is real. I said, in the
S3: name of the Lord Jesus Christ, you're not permitted to
S3: play any games. Now we're going. But now I have
S3: a guy looking at this going. Now people say, why
S3: don't you do that every time? It's kind of cool.
S3: And I go, no, because what I was doing in
S3: my infancy with this is giving demons the idea that
S3: I actually care about what they can or can't do,
S3: and them hoping, you know, that, that they can take over. Well, now,
S3: I won't do that. I'll just say, friend, if you're
S3: not ready to roll with this, we're not going. If
S3: you are, demons are losers. We're not accommodating them in
S3: any way. So you know that that would be one
S3: thing that that struck my mind. I'll give you another.
S3: And again this sounds. I see, I don't like it.
S3: People have asked me, why don't you write a book
S3: on some of the odd stuff? And I go, because
S3: I don't want to glorify the wrong side. I tried
S3: to write a book that says, here's how you deal
S3: with it. Uh, we win. They lose. You know, just
S3: don't promote it as a circus. But I had a
S3: young lady who was, uh, a Hawaiian and, uh, just
S3: the island was, you know, they still are just filled
S3: with this kind of stuff. And we came in and
S3: she came in the office, we dealt with it. And
S3: I said at one point after we were done, and
S3: she did wonderfully, and she and her husband have helped
S3: so many people with this. Uh, I mean, they have
S3: been warriors. But at one point, after we're all done,
S3: I said at one point, your face totally changed as
S3: I was commanding, and I told her what the person
S3: looked like, and she just got big and wide open,
S3: and I, I mean, and see, we were dealing with
S3: a bunch of ancestral issues Just. And she said, that's grandma.
S3: I don't remember what she was. And she goes, I mean,
S3: I described what. And I am telling you, as I
S3: sat there, the woman that I was talking to was
S3: a believer. I saw this old lady's face and body.
S3: I mean, I told her about how tall I didn't.
S3: I'm not used to that kind of stuff. But this
S3: thing manifested itself right in my room. And when I
S3: said to her this was odd, and she just goes,
S3: that's my grandmother. Well, guess where the ancestral stuff was
S3: coming through, grandmother. And if someone said, I couldn't make
S3: that up, and I'm not creative enough to figure out
S3: how to do that. I mean, I've had, you know,
S3: different things, you know, happen. Um, you know, responses coming
S3: from people where they would go, uh, you shouldn't know that.
S3: I didn't tell you that. How did you know that?
S3: And I go, I'm not psychic. Well, this is what
S3: it just said. And that's absolutely true. And and you
S3: commanded it to say. And it's like I didn't make
S3: that up. I didn't even think that up. And I go,
S3: I know, I know, that's why sometimes I'll tell them.
S3: Tell them the lies they've told you regularly. Because I
S3: want you as the person demonized, to understand because you're
S3: hearing lies in your head doesn't make any of it true.
S3: It just means that they're hoping you'll bite on it
S3: and then they can detract your life. And I was today,
S3: I got a call. Very nice person, you know, 46
S3: years old, but said I'm moving to and it was
S3: another state tomorrow. And I said, why? And they said, well,
S3: someone came over and told me that they, uh, God
S3: had told them I was supposed to move. So I
S3: quit my job and I'm moving. And I said, how
S3: do you know what was said was from God? And
S3: he got kind of quiet and, well, it was supernatural.
S3: And I go, that's supernatural. Remember, there's two sides that
S3: can work in that arena. And I said, maybe, maybe
S3: God spoke to you through a friend in your church.
S3: I'm not saying he can't do that, but I said
S3: I would want to know a little bit before I
S3: quit my job and move. And he said, well, I
S3: just thought it had to be true because it was supernatural.
S3: I say, we forget. We forget that there there are
S3: two sides and they can both play games. I mean,
S3: when Paul talks about the in in first Timothy four
S3: one about, you'll understand we're getting nearer when you see
S3: that the demonic deception is increasing and increasing, it would
S3: certainly mean it has to be real enough and often
S3: enough that even the Saints are looking going, what in
S3: the world is going on here?
S1: Oh, that's such a great point, Carl. Wow, such a
S1: great point. And I don't know where we are in
S1: the eschatological timelines, but I'd say we're in the latter days.
S1: Big picture. One day closer today than we were yesterday.
S1: Should he tarry one day closer tomorrow? So in other words,
S1: what you just said is one of the reasons why
S1: you and I keep having these conversations. So when we
S1: come back, I'm going right to the phones and you're
S1: going to take it from here. Your questions for Doctor
S1: Carl Payne. Our topic spiritual warfare 758775483675. Then call in
S1: early because lots of people have questions on this most
S1: important topic back after this.
S2: Put it on, put it on, put it on, put
S2: on the whole armor.
S1: We're visiting with Doctor Karl Payne, author of Spiritual Warfare
S1: Christians Demonization and Deliverance. He's on staff at Antioch Bible
S1: Church in Redmond, Washington. And that's what you're doing. You're
S1: asking questions about spiritual warfare. (877) 548-3675. Becky, I'm going to
S1: start with you and Georgia. Thanks so much for being
S1: a part of this conversation. And your question for Carl, please.
S4: Oh thank you. My question is can a person deliver
S4: themselves from demonic oppression? I mean, I'm a believer. I
S4: don't believe I'm possessed, but I feel so oppressed by
S4: My demons or does it take someone else?
S3: Oh great question. And and I would answer this in
S3: either A or B. All right. Either either. Either way
S3: that I think that most often Christians are dealing with
S3: demonic opposition. And number one, if it's, uh, you know,
S3: kind of on the light end of the control, what
S3: I call oppression. I've said many times with Janet, it's
S3: it's irritating. It's not debilitating. It's the arrows that Paul
S3: speaks of in Ephesians 616. It's the accusation that Paul
S3: talks of, or excuse me, that John talks about in
S3: revelation 12 1011. We feel like we get bombarded with,
S3: you know, you're ugly, you're stupid, no one likes you.
S3: Your prayers bounce off the ceiling, why do you pray, etc.
S3: that offensive prayer that we've talked about so many times,
S3: I don't need someone else to pray offensively over me.
S3: The same God that lives in that person lives in me.
S3: If we're Christians, I can pray offensively. And it's very
S3: effective at saying, you know what? You're not welcome here.
S3: Get lost if it's you know what I still say demonization.
S3: I don't like the word possession. I don't use it
S3: because it's so there's so much baggage. People thinking it's
S3: talking about demons owning people. And I have said demons
S3: don't own Christians. They don't even own non-Christians. Demons are squatters.
S3: They're part of the creation. And they very much want
S3: to control us. You know, remember the Isaiah 14, the
S3: I wills, I mean the arrogance and the desire to
S3: control and power and all got Lucifer in trouble, too.
S3: But when we're talking about someone that has gotten themselves wrapped,
S3: involved with demonization demons, I'm saying it's more severe, uh,
S3: than than the irritating, uh, arrows. It's it can be
S3: really debilitating. But I wrote that whole chapter eight in
S3: my book saying, you know what? Here is a process
S3: I've never said. It is the only process. It's just
S3: I've said it's battle tested. It works and it's biblically based.
S3: But where? I have had missionaries call me from overseas
S3: saying it wasn't cost effective to fly in to see you,
S3: but I took that chapter eight. I just walked through
S3: it and I am free. And thank you for writing
S3: that book. And I said, well, you'll become more proficient
S3: with it helping others. It's like, oh, I know. Well,
S3: how could that be? Don't you have to have a
S3: a gifted, you know, person in deliverance? Well, first, there
S3: is no spiritual gift of deliverance. We deal with demons
S3: through delegated authority that Luke 1018 to 20 says is
S3: given to everyone whose name is written in heaven. It's
S3: in the book of life. If your name isn't written
S3: in heaven, you're not a believer. If you are a believer,
S3: your name is written in heaven, which means, he says,
S3: I've given you authority to tread upon me and step
S3: on serpents, scorpions over all the power of the enemy.
S3: They shall not harm you. However, or nevertheless do not
S3: rejoice because spirits are subject to you. Rejoice because your
S3: names are recorded in heaven. So I'm saying, sister, you
S3: have the same delegated authority I do. And again, I
S3: would encourage you, you know the three little seeds that I,
S3: you know, confess, cancel command. But if it's gone beyond
S3: what the offensive prayer will take care of, it's no
S3: problem to go to be flip the switch. Okay. If
S3: they have a right to be there, that topos according
S3: to Ephesians 427. And if you're not familiar, you can
S3: catch it. You know, it's I'm not the only one
S3: that writes about it, but I've written about it. If
S3: they've been given a place, space, or territory to control,
S3: then you say, Lord God, it's time for that to
S3: be taken away. Would you forgive the sin that opened
S3: the door? There's your confession. Would you cancel any ground
S3: that they hold against me through that? Since you've cleansed me,
S3: closed the door. And then third C command them. Get lost.
S3: And I've had people say yes. Uh. And I'm saying
S3: yes as long as you're in Christ. If you're not
S3: a Christian, don't mess with them. Acts 19 says you
S3: can get beat up, but I don't mean that funny.
S3: I mean, you know, Jesus. We know Paul. We recognize.
S3: Who do you think?
S1: But who are you exactly?
S3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but if you're in Christ, sister. Yes. No,
S3: you don't have to have someone that says I'm uniquely
S3: gifted for this. I would say to them, with all respect,
S3: dealing with demons is about delegated authority given to all Christians.
S3: It's not a gift given to some. And you will
S3: no where in the New Testament find deliverance refer to
S3: as a spiritual gift. We have people that will say that.
S3: I guess it makes them feel you know better about
S3: what they're doing or something, or thinking it gives them
S3: another star on their, on their, on their vest or something.
S3: And I'm just going it's misleading. It's not necessary. If
S3: you're in Christ, you're on the side that wins. If
S3: they're part of the creation, they're on the side that loses.
S3: Creator beats creation. So the one belonging to Christ should
S3: have greater authority than the one who belongs to part
S3: of his creation. When I understand it, their attitude is
S3: usually get it over with. If I don't understand that,
S3: they will either one go silent hoping you'll ignore them
S3: or be manifest and try and intimidate. It usually goes
S3: one way or the other, and for them they're smart
S3: enough to go. Which way do I think I can,
S3: you know, keep my work going well, with this one.
S3: I'll just be quiet. You know, they don't want to
S3: see it anyway. What? This one. I'm just going to
S3: scare them. And either way they go, I get to
S3: keep doing my work, I go, no, I approach them
S3: in the name and delegate authority of the Lord Jesus.
S3: I win because Christ won.
S1: Amen. Becky. May that be a great cup of encouragement
S1: to you, Carl. Ten second response do you need a
S1: crucifix to cast a demon out?
S3: No.
S1: Do you need holy water?
S3: You don't. You don't need holy water.
S1: Do you have to speak in Latin?
S3: No. You just have to have that delegated authority which
S3: has given you, regardless of what language or what translation
S3: of the Bible you read or what spiritual gift you have.
S1: Amen and amen. If you don't hear anything else this hour,
S1: can you remember that? This goes back to that verse
S1: that says, greater is he that is in you than
S1: he that is in the world. When we come back,
S1: more of your questions at (877) 548-3675. This is in the
S1: market with Janet Parshall. Doctor Carl Payne is our guest.
S1: We love it when he comes. And we are tackling
S1: the topic of spiritual warfare back after this. When we
S1: tackle tough issues on in the market, do you find
S1: yourself nodding in agreement? Then why not take the next
S1: step today and become a partial partner? Your monthly gift
S1: will help to keep us on the air, and you'll
S1: receive exclusive behind the scenes resources directly from me, like
S1: a transcript of my weekly commentary and exclusive weekly audio briefing,
S1: and more. Become one of our partial partners today by
S1: calling 877 Janet, 58, or go online to In the
S1: market with Janet Parshall. Doctor Calpain is our guest and
S1: we are talking about spiritual warfare and you just love
S1: it when he comes. How do I know? Because lines
S1: light up like a Christmas tree. He is a pastor,
S1: a teacher, a speaker and author, and former NFL chaplain
S1: currently on staff at Antioch Bible Church in Redmond, Washington.
S1: His primary role in that capacity is serving as the
S1: pastor of Leadership Development and Discipleship Training. And to that end,
S1: he's got a fabulous book on this topic called Spiritual
S1: Warfare Christians Demonization and Deliverance. It's linked right there in
S1: my information page, clicking on and follow through so you
S1: can determine how you can get your own copy as well. Marcia,
S1: I welcome you from Florida. Thanks for stopping by. Your
S1: question please.
S5: Good evening. Uh, how do you differentiate between spiritual warfare?
S5: And I'm just having a rough time as well. How
S5: do you engage non-believers in conversations about spiritual warfare without
S5: seeming as though you're hocus pocus?
S3: Both. Both. Good questions. Um, I'll take the the second
S3: one first. Marsha. Uh, I would say I not only
S3: don't chase non-Christians down with this, I don't try to
S3: chase Christians down with this. And it doesn't mean I'm
S3: bashful about it, but it just means unless it's something
S3: that I go fishing. You know, if someone tells me,
S3: Christian or non-Christian, I am really struggling with. And I
S3: have seen counselor, you know, X, Y, Z and doctor
S3: so-and-so and read and I mean, nothing touches this. I
S3: would have no problem saying, have you ever considered maybe
S3: maybe it's something different altogether? Uh, maybe the reason some
S3: of this isn't touching it is because it's it's not
S3: what's really causing it. And if they'll look at me
S3: and hook a little bit and go, well, what are
S3: you talking about? Now I'm now I'm talking to them.
S3: But in response to their asking me, you know, what
S3: are you talking about? Instead of me saying, hey, you
S3: need to pick up a Bible, you need to go
S3: see someone and get rid of demons. Well, you know,
S3: most people don't respond well to something like that, Christian
S3: or non-Christian. So I look for ways to go fishing
S3: if I see it. But at the point that if
S3: I'm the one badgering pushing, I have found more often
S3: than not people will just say, uh, what do you
S3: want to hear? For me to leave you alone because
S3: you're a creep and I don't even want to talk
S3: to you. So I don't think you do yourself any
S3: favors when you say, I'm here to be the the
S3: demon buster. Uh, I haven't seen that. Be very helpful. Uh,
S3: when people are responding because you've raised up something they
S3: didn't understand or stuff that they've tried to work with
S3: hasn't worked, or have you considered? Or here's a good book.
S3: Have you ever read Janet's book on? You know, it's
S3: an excellent book. Maybe Christian or non-Christian? They'll go, no,
S3: I haven't, thank you. And who knows? You know, after that, say, hey,
S3: you know that book that I read, I've really got
S3: some questions. Well, now they're coming to you with questions.
S3: And it's like, Marcia, you're doing them a favor by
S3: answering their questions. So they're not looking at you like,
S3: you know, I'm running from you. It's like, thank you
S3: for the help. That would be the first one. The
S3: second one. On the difference about, you know, when demons
S3: are bugging versus when I'm just having a bad day.
S3: I will say that. And I've said it this way.
S3: It's it's a little akin to the question about how
S3: do you tell the difference when when something is demonic,
S3: supernaturally sourced and when it's mentally, you know, maybe someone's
S3: just had a breakdown. It's just something that isn't connected.
S3: And I have I have said that because the answer
S3: is much the same. I said usually when it's demonic,
S3: it will be second person in in in in what
S3: I mean by that is you process things. Marcia. First person.
S3: I'm tired. I'm having a bad day. Um, boy, did
S3: I do something wrong. I should have this should of that.
S3: That's how we process things. That's. That's us. When you're catching,
S3: you know, you always have bad days because you're such
S3: a rotten Christian. Your Bible reading is a joke. Your
S3: prayers bounce off the ceiling and no one likes you.
S3: You know those Christians at your church are a fake.
S3: I've asked people the pronouns flip. Why? Because when demons
S3: are speaking, they mentally. Second Corinthians 11 one through four
S3: is one place that says, yep, that's where they surely
S3: can attack. And it's usually mental. But they're not me,
S3: so they don't. It's not me, uh, throwing that kind
S3: of thought in my thinking. Uh, any more than it
S3: was Eve saying, I'm going to make up that a
S3: serpent is saying to me. Has God really said I
S3: wasn't part of her thinking? It was. It was. It
S3: was intrusive. But they're typically second person. And I think
S3: it's because demons aren't us. They want to throw out
S3: the lions to see if they can take us fishing.
S3: But it can't be I because they're not me. And
S3: I've said, if it's we, sometimes there can be more
S3: than one. Someone says to me, I heard we're going
S3: to kill you. I mean, if it's real, maybe there's
S3: just more than one demon, but none of us process
S3: in a first person plural pronoun. We had a bad day,
S3: didn't we? Uh, we're tired, aren't we? I don't think
S3: that way. And I don't process that way. So that
S3: would be one of the responses. The second one I
S3: would give you is when it's demonic, so much of
S3: it will go back to either your inadequate as a
S3: Christian or Jesus is inadequate as a Savior. It's either
S3: why you'll never make it, you're never good enough, you know,
S3: whatever it is you and just give up and quit.
S3: Or if Jesus loved you, why doesn't he watch out
S3: for you? It's because he doesn't really love you. This
S3: is never going to change. Or Jesus loved you once,
S3: but he left you. He's so disgusted with you. So
S3: just kill yourself because you're never going to get back
S3: in his good graces. But I'll say almost always, when
S3: demons are involved, it's going to involve some kind of
S3: of a of a rub against me as a Christian
S3: or Jesus as a savior.
S1: Wow, what an answer, Carl. Thank you. And I hope, Marcia,
S1: tremendously that you were encouraged by that. Thank you so much, Lisa.
S1: You're in Indiana. I thank you for your patience and
S1: we'd love your question now, please.
S6: Yes, I have a 30 year old son and, um,
S6: who came to the Lord as a young boy and
S6: then was baptized later on, and he read the, um,
S6: deconstruction book in the last year, and, um, has told
S6: my husband and I that he no longer has the
S6: same values as us, and now is, um, doing tarot cards, um,
S6: and has poor choices of women. So my question is, um,
S6: he has two sons that are eight and six, and
S6: I'm praying the armor of God on them every day.
S6: But what? How should I pray for him?
S3: Um, great question from a parent that loves and cares,
S3: I get it. My my prayer for him would be
S3: the offensive type that I talked about before, uh, with
S3: the first caller, but I would just be praying, Lord,
S3: would you please undermine the ones trying to undermine my son?
S3: Would you confuse the ones that are trying to confuse
S3: my son? Would you put my son in a position,
S3: hopefully in a I don't want it to be tragedy,
S3: but would you put him in a position where he
S3: turns back to you, assuming he ever did turn to you?
S3: I don't I don't know him. I don't know anything
S3: about it. Because someone is baptized certainly doesn't make them
S3: a Christian any more than because I go to church.
S3: It makes me a Christian. I can sleep in a
S3: barn and not be a cow, and I can take
S3: a bath and and not be a pig, you know,
S3: kind of thing. But what I'm suggesting would be, uh,
S3: I'm going to be praying for demons to ultimately leave
S3: the one if it's a Christian. If they're not Christians,
S3: they they have no fear. They'll say, I don't have
S3: to obey anything you say, but assuming it's a Christian
S3: and they know that your authority is greater, or the
S3: Christian's authority is greater if they want them gone. Christian
S3: doesn't have to put up with it, but since he
S3: would be the one if he's involved himself with this
S3: stuff that needs to have this stop, he needs to
S3: be the one saying, Lord God, forgive me. You know,
S3: I've got myself involved in all kinds of things and
S3: that we're tapas. We talked about in Ephesians 427. I've
S3: given away places and spaces and ground to enemies that
S3: I want given back to you. Would you forgive me
S3: of the sin and cancel any permission they have? That
S3: has to come from the demonized person. A person that
S3: loves them and prays for them can say, I want
S3: that to happen, but it has to come from them.
S3: So my prayer for the one that's a loved one
S3: is going to be saying, Lord, put them in a
S3: place where they will want that, where they will see that,
S3: they'll see the error of their way. They'll see, why
S3: would I want to give my life to the one
S3: who has lesser authority, i.e. the creation, One than the
S3: one who has all authority, the creator. When Jesus says
S3: in Matthew 2818, all authority is given me, he says,
S3: not just on earth, in heaven and earth. And so
S3: I'm the boss. 19 here's the job. And 20 don't forget,
S3: I'm always with you. I remember as a Christian, I'm
S3: on the side of the one who won so I
S3: can intercede and pray. Lord, help them understand that that's
S3: what I would be doing as a parent.
S1: Lisa, thank you so very, very much. Again, I hope
S1: you found great encouragement in that question and let me go,
S1: if I can. Please. To. Denise. Denise, thank you so
S1: very much for joining us. Your question now.
S7: Thank you for having me on, Janet. I absolutely love
S7: your show. And Doctor Payne. Our small group is currently
S7: reading your book on spiritual warfare and we're loving it.
S7: So my question is, how do we know if a
S7: child has a demon?
S3: Well, first, thank you for using it as small group.
S3: I've been told before about small groups, Bible studies, you know,
S3: reading clubs, etc. I catch that once in a while,
S3: but I'll tell you, it's a joy to hear because
S3: I want people walking free, understanding that their body is
S3: a temple, not a prison, and their mind is a
S3: is a temple, not a prison. So thank you. Um,
S3: I would say something like this, uh, again, especially when
S3: it's kids and people can talk about, you know, imagination
S3: and all. Well, I'll have people come in where, uh,
S3: and this doesn't happen occasionally. I'm saying I've had this
S3: happen often enough that it registers. It would be like
S3: Carl my so and so, you know, son, daughter, whatever
S3: it was. I mean, when they were three, four and five,
S3: I mean, they would wake up screaming that there was
S3: something in the room, that there was something touching them.
S3: And we would just go, oh, honey, it's just a
S3: bad dream and all, and I wish I'd have taken
S3: some of that more seriously. I don't know that there's 100%
S3: way to be able to see the difference in that,
S3: but if I'm seeing someone continually coming up with thoughts
S3: that aren't appropriate, questions that aren't appropriate, or constantly telling
S3: me something's going on as a parent, I'm going to
S3: check that out instead of just assuming ain't kids cute?
S2: Yeah.
S1: Yeah, that's a great answer, Denise. Thank you. And thanks
S1: for encouraging my friend Carl by saying that you're using
S1: that book. I hope your small group is blessed as
S1: a result of that. Let me take a break and
S1: come right back to the phones. The number (877) 548-3675. The
S1: topic spiritual warfare. The teacher doctor Carl Payne. More after
S1: this shall stand. Doctor Carl Payne, our guest, and we're
S1: talking about spiritual warfare. Taking your questions at (877) 548-3675. And
S1: may I just say they're excellent questions. And there's so
S1: many wonderful ones still online. (877) 548-3675. Beverly, thank you for
S1: being here from Florida. Your question please.
S7: Uh, yes. Um, my friend used to be an atheist,
S7: and he said he became a Christian, and he has
S7: some kind of demon that talks to him, and he
S7: hates it. And he says he's annoying. He calls him
S7: a nebbish or something like that. Uh, my friend's Jewish, and, um,
S7: I want to know, is it possible that he can't
S7: get rid of that demon until he. If he really
S7: is a Christian, until he gets baptized? Or or should
S7: he be able to, uh, get rid of that demon
S7: even if he isn't baptized? He says, I don't want
S7: to get baptized, and God knows why, you know so.
S7: And and I wanted to do something, but I didn't
S7: feel like I had enough authority power to get rid
S7: of that demon.
S3: Well, let me let me go after your question in
S3: two parts. And if I miss any part of it,
S3: then you just tell Janet, and she can run me
S3: right back at it. Uh, but I would say first
S3: that if your friend is born again, there is absolutely
S3: nothing that should keep him from being able to deal
S3: with demonic spirits or demonization, as long as he is
S3: willing to deal with whatever it was that opened the
S3: door to them. So, uh, when, when, when, uh, we've
S3: I think I've referenced it 2 or 3 times already,
S3: but when Christians give tapas a place or a space
S3: of control to demons, it doesn't mean they're owned by
S3: the demon. And I don't think that's what you're saying,
S3: but it certainly means that they can have a degree
S3: of control until whatever was given to them is taken back.
S3: That's why it is so important when I say it's
S3: not my job to chase people down. Are they Christian? non-Christian?
S3: Are they Christians living in disobedience out of choice? Is
S3: it a Christian? Just overwhelmed, I don't know. I want,
S3: I want to know from them. Are you the one
S3: wanting to deal with this? If your friend is truly
S3: born again, uh, there's there's no reason. If he's willing
S3: to put on the table. I say three non-negotiables I
S3: write in that book. Number one, you're a Christian. Number two,
S3: you're 100% honest and open about whatever. Open the doors.
S3: And number three, you came to fight, not make excuses
S3: or passively run. If he's there, it can be. It
S3: can be dealt with. It just needs to be dealt
S3: with instead of ignored. Number two, um, the New Testament
S3: does not indicate anywhere that baptism has anything to do
S3: with whether or not demons can, uh, you know, demons
S3: will leave a person or not. naught. That's if someone
S3: has told you that, or if that's just an assumption
S3: you've made, that a person who has been baptized demons
S3: will leave. But a person who hasn't been baptized, they won't.
S3: There there's not a biblical support for that, at least
S3: not contextually. So, you know, if someone said to me,
S3: is baptism important, I would say Amen. Do you encourage baptism? Amen.
S3: I do, I will say the baptism is an external
S3: ordinance that we're supposed to be involved with as a
S3: way of telling people inside, my life has changed and
S3: and I want you to know about it. So it
S3: becomes something where the private that happened in my heart
S3: becomes public. And it's a wonderful thing. And believers were
S3: encouraged to be to be baptized. But I'm nowhere told
S3: that baptism determines salvation, at least not contextually. The Mark
S3: 16 is not contextual. And the acts chapter two, and
S3: those are the only two verses people that really push
S3: that hard like to go to. And both of those
S3: can be dealt with contextually in a way that just says, yes,
S3: it's important. But no, it doesn't determine salvation. And if
S3: it doesn't determine salvation, I'm saying, again, I'm not aware
S3: of anywhere in Scripture that it says that my baptism
S3: changes whether or not demons will respond to the delegated
S3: authority of a Christian, which is given to them when
S3: they believe. When they believe.
S1: Yeah. Wow. Excellent. Thank you so much for the question.
S1: I greatly appreciate it. (877) 548-3675. Rick in Washington state. Thanks
S1: for stopping by. Neighbors. Rick, I introduce you to your neighbor,
S1: Doctor Carl Payne. Your question. Rick.
S8: Well, first, thanks for taking my call. I wanted to
S8: ask you, when Jesus was on earth, he had demon
S8: possessed people in his day. And he said, even with
S8: a bound in the last day. So all this evil
S8: that's going on, if he was demon possessed people today.
S3: I think that's insightful. I would say this, I would
S3: say that I think anytime God is involved in kind
S3: of a major dispensational shakedown or change something coming up,
S3: I'm not surprised if there's an uptick in demonic activity. Clearly,
S3: you know the time of Moses, you saw an uptick. Clearly,
S3: you know, in the time of some of the you know,
S3: you think of Isaiah, you think of Elisha, some of
S3: the prophets, uh, you know, some of the, some of
S3: the kings, you know, followers of Baal and such. You
S3: see it clearly at the time of Jesus. You see it.
S3: And I think we're told over and repeatedly. I mean,
S3: Jesus in Matthew 24, things are going to be going
S3: on are going to be far beyond normal. And I
S3: think Paul says several different places, but I already mentioned
S3: the first Timothy four one, that there's going to be
S3: used the word uptick or an increase in demonic delusion.
S3: So if somebody said, do I think that that could
S3: be an indication that we're we're coming closer. I kind
S3: of think, like, I think, uh, Janet was saying, I'm
S3: not going to try to predict the day or the time.
S3: You're not told to do that. But I think I
S3: have to be a blind person if I don't see
S3: there is so much going on that that certainly sounds
S3: like it falls in line with things that Jesus says
S3: in Matthew 24 are going to be going on. And, uh,
S3: you know, the first Thessalonians 413 to 18 is going
S3: to be going on, uh, one of the things that
S3: I thought about when, uh, with Janet's opening, I see
S3: maybe this is an appropriate time. I'm taking a class
S3: right now through, uh, Doctor David Jeremiah's book, The Book
S3: of Signs. So someone's teaching my book in a in
S3: a group. I'm teaching his book right now in a group.
S3: But we just. Last night, we did a chapter on apathy.
S3: And my first thought is, okay, he's going to go
S3: after the apathy of, of, uh, you know, the world
S3: around us. And there's so much, you know, going on
S3: now that 30 years ago I would have never believed
S3: could be going on. Natural or supernatural. But he basically
S3: comes up and part of what he says is. Is
S3: the church, instead of standing against it, just becomes normalized.
S3: And I'm more concerned about looking out of step with
S3: my friends than I am what's right or wrong. So
S3: instead of standing up, we just shut up. And I
S3: think he's saying part of that apathy is not just
S3: the world and its freefall, but it's Christians and not
S3: being willing to be the pillar of truth. You know,
S3: first Timothy three.
S1: Exactly.
S3: 15.
S9: Yep. We're afraid to be a pillar of truth. We
S9: don't want to be criticized.
S1: What a note to end this on. Thank you for that, Kyle. Rick,
S1: thank you very much for the question as well. Let
S1: me say to my friends whose calls we were not
S1: able to take if the Lord should tarry, and he
S1: allows doctor Karl-Heinz coming back again. So when you hear
S1: me give that number the next time you get in
S1: line first. Thank you Carl. Thank you friends. We'll see
S1: you next time.