1 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,480 S1: Younger investors are reshaping the markets, from crypto and AI 2 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,080 S1: to ETFs and gaming. Hi, I'm Rob West, but with 3 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,919 S1: so many new platforms and voices, how do we navigate 4 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:23,200 S1: investing wisely across generations? Today Matt Bell joins us to 5 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,800 S1: share what's changing, what's timeless, and how biblical wisdom can 6 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,480 S1: guide us in a fast moving market. And then it's 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:34,120 S1: on to your calls at 800 525 7000. That's 800 8 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:39,360 S1: 525 7000. This is faith and finance live. Biblical wisdom 9 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:47,000 S1: for your financial decisions. Joining us today is my friend 10 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,199 S1: Matt Bell, managing editor at Sound Mind Investing, one of 11 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,280 S1: our trusted ministry partners. Matt, great to have you back. 12 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,279 S2: Thanks so much, Rob. It's always good to be with you. 13 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,040 S2: I've been looking forward to our conversation. 14 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,380 S1: I'm right there with you. And in a recent SMI 15 00:01:00,420 --> 00:01:05,380 S1: newsletter article, Matt, Not your Father's Portfolio A Generational Divide 16 00:01:05,380 --> 00:01:09,899 S1: in Investment Preferences. You captured this shift so well at 17 00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:13,740 S1: a high level. How are younger investors reshaping the investment 18 00:01:13,740 --> 00:01:14,780 S1: landscape today. 19 00:01:15,060 --> 00:01:19,540 S2: In some pretty dramatic ways. Rob. Since 2020, millions, literally 20 00:01:19,540 --> 00:01:23,060 S2: millions of new investment accounts have been opened largely by 21 00:01:23,100 --> 00:01:26,740 S2: younger investors. And in fact, in 2021, Schwab did a 22 00:01:26,780 --> 00:01:30,660 S2: really interesting study. They found that 15% of all US 23 00:01:30,660 --> 00:01:35,620 S2: stock market investors began investing in 2020, which is remarkable. 24 00:01:35,780 --> 00:01:39,100 S2: And a lot of those folks were younger investors. Gen Z, 25 00:01:39,140 --> 00:01:43,020 S2: which is basically aged 29 or younger, and millennials ages 26 00:01:43,020 --> 00:01:46,820 S2: 30 to 45. And so that's just a really remarkable change. 27 00:01:46,940 --> 00:01:51,380 S2: And it's also counterintuitive because as listeners probably remember 2020, 28 00:01:51,420 --> 00:01:54,980 S2: that's when the Covid 19 pandemic began sweeping the US. 29 00:01:55,260 --> 00:01:58,840 S2: And initially the stock market fell really, really hard. And 30 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,880 S2: oftentimes when the market falls, people leave the market. But 31 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,120 S2: not this time. And Rob, I think the reason can 32 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:06,720 S2: be kind of tied to what I would call a 33 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,000 S2: sort of a perfect storm that was happening at that time. 34 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,720 S2: People had time on their hands because of Covid. They 35 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,959 S2: had money in their pockets because of the pandemic, stimulus money. 36 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,720 S2: And then there was a lot of media attention, if 37 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:22,280 S2: you remember, towards social media influencers who began live streaming 38 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,560 S2: their day trading, giving the impression that there was easy 39 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,040 S2: money to be made in the market. And and of course, 40 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,520 S2: the advent of no commission and fractional share trading kind 41 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,000 S2: of factored into the whole thing as well. There was 42 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,200 S2: a certain trading platform that kind of gamified trading by 43 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,799 S2: showering user screens with electronic confetti whenever they made a trade. 44 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,760 S2: So just a lot of factors that ended up pointing 45 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,960 S2: younger people, many, many younger people toward the markets. 46 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,280 S1: Wow. Yeah. When you describe it that way, it's dramatic. 47 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:56,320 S1: So what sets the approach of younger investors apart? How 48 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,500 S1: are they engaging the markets differently? 49 00:02:58,980 --> 00:03:02,460 S2: Yeah, well, not surprisingly, they're more comfortable than older investors 50 00:03:02,460 --> 00:03:05,899 S2: using investment apps to make sure their buys and their cells, 51 00:03:05,900 --> 00:03:09,139 S2: and they're more interested in the newer categories like crypto 52 00:03:09,139 --> 00:03:12,700 S2: or AI or so-called fintech. They're more likely to get 53 00:03:12,700 --> 00:03:15,780 S2: their investment advice from social media, which we can talk 54 00:03:15,780 --> 00:03:19,419 S2: about or friends, than from a financial advisor. And now 55 00:03:19,419 --> 00:03:22,260 S2: this next one. If there are younger people listening to 56 00:03:22,300 --> 00:03:25,419 S2: this conversation, don't shoot the messenger. But the research says 57 00:03:25,419 --> 00:03:28,380 S2: that that younger investors tend to be more attracted to 58 00:03:28,419 --> 00:03:32,340 S2: get rich, quick stock investment ideas. And interestingly, when they 59 00:03:32,340 --> 00:03:35,380 S2: use mutual funds, they're more likely to use ETFs than 60 00:03:35,380 --> 00:03:36,660 S2: traditional funds. 61 00:03:37,100 --> 00:03:39,500 S1: Yeah. Why do you think ETFs have become the go 62 00:03:39,500 --> 00:03:42,460 S1: to choice for so many younger investors in particular? 63 00:03:42,900 --> 00:03:44,740 S2: Yeah, I mean, the idealist to me would like to 64 00:03:44,740 --> 00:03:48,180 S2: think it's because ETFs often have lower expense ratios than 65 00:03:48,180 --> 00:03:51,700 S2: traditional funds and they can be more tax efficient. But 66 00:03:51,700 --> 00:03:54,060 S2: I have to believe that part of the reason as 67 00:03:54,060 --> 00:03:57,000 S2: well is that ETFs trade like stocks. You know younger 68 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,480 S2: investors tend to make more trades than older investors. So 69 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,080 S2: I think the fact that ETFs are priced throughout the 70 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,760 S2: day just makes them more attractive to more active investors. 71 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,360 S1: Yeah. When you move past the structure, Matt. And look 72 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:15,160 S1: at the specific themes crypto, fintech, AI, even gaming, the 73 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,479 S1: contrast gets even sharper. What jumped out to you in 74 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:19,040 S1: the data? 75 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,560 S2: Sure. So not surprisingly, younger investors more so than older 76 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:28,159 S2: investors are interested in cryptocurrencies, although the interest is growing 77 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,960 S2: quickly across the whole age spectrum. With regard to cryptos, 78 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,960 S2: gaming related funds, those that invest in video game companies 79 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,120 S2: and also those involved in sports gambling, they have a 80 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,720 S2: big generational divide, with the youngest investors showing more interest 81 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,360 S2: than older investors. And then fintech, as well as AI 82 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,239 S2: and machine learning funds. Those are showing strong growth in interest. 83 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,240 S2: But in those categories, that's really across all age segments. 84 00:04:53,339 --> 00:04:57,420 S1: Yeah, well, this is fascinating. We'll continue to unpack this 85 00:04:57,420 --> 00:05:01,180 S1: after the break and talk about what opportunities and risks 86 00:05:01,180 --> 00:05:04,660 S1: exist here. We'll talk about as parents and grandparents how 87 00:05:04,660 --> 00:05:09,380 S1: you can come alongside younger investors. And what about alternative assets. 88 00:05:09,380 --> 00:05:11,980 S1: How does that play into this? Matt Bell is here today, 89 00:05:12,020 --> 00:05:15,860 S1: Matt's managing editor at Sound Mind Investing, a trusted ministry 90 00:05:15,860 --> 00:05:18,540 S1: partner here at Faith and finance. We'll be right back. 91 00:05:35,260 --> 00:05:38,740 S1: A new generation of investors have entered the markets. What 92 00:05:38,740 --> 00:05:41,260 S1: are they thinking about? What drives them and what are 93 00:05:41,260 --> 00:05:44,419 S1: they investing in? Matt Bell is here today. He's managing 94 00:05:44,420 --> 00:05:48,140 S1: editor at Sound Mind Investing, one of our ministry partners 95 00:05:48,140 --> 00:05:50,900 S1: here at Faith and finance. And Matt, you know, at 96 00:05:50,900 --> 00:05:54,320 S1: face value this incredible move on the part of these 97 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:59,400 S1: younger generations into the markets as investors. That's a good thing, right? 98 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,480 S2: I think it is. You know, young people have time 99 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,559 S2: on their side, and time is one of the most 100 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,040 S2: critically important ingredients for compounding. So I think it's generally 101 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,679 S2: a really good thing to get interested and get started 102 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,440 S2: with investing sooner than later. But I do worry a 103 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,640 S2: little bit about maybe some of the motives that have 104 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,239 S2: drawn many younger investors into the markets and just in 105 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,000 S2: some ways, the way that they're going about investing. 106 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,160 S1: Yeah, no doubt about it. By the way, folks, if 107 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,920 S1: you want to read this article we've been discussing today, 108 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,960 S1: it's called Not Your Father's Portfolio A Generational Divide in 109 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,159 S1: Investment Preferences. You can head over to Sound mind Investing. 110 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,679 S1: That's sound mind investing. And read it today. Now, Matt, 111 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,559 S1: what I find fascinating is that interest in crypto and 112 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,320 S1: AI isn't just a young investor thing anymore. As you noted, 113 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,020 S1: we're seeing growing interest across every generation. What do you 114 00:06:52,020 --> 00:06:55,260 S1: think that says about where investing culture is headed? 115 00:06:55,860 --> 00:06:58,500 S2: Yeah, things are changing fast. I mean, you had crypto 116 00:06:58,500 --> 00:07:02,300 S2: Super Bowl ads back in 2022. People might remember those. 117 00:07:02,460 --> 00:07:04,339 S2: And at that time, you had to go through a 118 00:07:04,339 --> 00:07:07,300 S2: crypto exchange to make a purchase, which was a very 119 00:07:07,300 --> 00:07:11,140 S2: unfamiliar process for most and probably for some, a bit scary. 120 00:07:11,380 --> 00:07:14,420 S2: The ads even hinted at that, saying their tagline, I 121 00:07:14,420 --> 00:07:17,180 S2: think was fortune favors the brave. You know. But but 122 00:07:17,180 --> 00:07:20,660 S2: just two years later, in 2024, the FCC approved the 123 00:07:20,660 --> 00:07:24,460 S2: first Bitcoin ETFs, which made it easier than ever for 124 00:07:24,460 --> 00:07:27,460 S2: lots of people to add cryptocurrencies to their portfolios. 125 00:07:27,740 --> 00:07:30,260 S1: At the same time, we're seeing a push to open 126 00:07:30,260 --> 00:07:35,260 S1: 401 K plans to private equity and so-called alternative investments. 127 00:07:35,260 --> 00:07:38,700 S1: So from your vantage point, Matt, what opportunities and also 128 00:07:38,780 --> 00:07:42,060 S1: what risks does that create for everyday investors? 129 00:07:42,580 --> 00:07:45,380 S2: I think there's a risk here of letting publicity about 130 00:07:45,380 --> 00:07:49,770 S2: all that and availability run ahead of knowledge. Private equity 131 00:07:49,810 --> 00:07:52,610 S2: has a certain aura around it. It's been a type 132 00:07:52,610 --> 00:07:56,610 S2: of investment only available to wealthier investors previously, and there 133 00:07:56,610 --> 00:07:58,930 S2: may be a sense among some investors that, hey, if 134 00:07:58,930 --> 00:08:01,410 S2: my employer has added this to my 401 plan, it 135 00:08:01,410 --> 00:08:04,530 S2: must be okay. But I would just encourage anyone thinking 136 00:08:04,530 --> 00:08:06,610 S2: about putting a toe in that water to make sure 137 00:08:06,610 --> 00:08:09,690 S2: they do some due diligence first. It may be that 138 00:08:09,690 --> 00:08:12,450 S2: private equity will be added initially to target date funds, 139 00:08:12,450 --> 00:08:15,050 S2: but even there, you know, for many years we've been 140 00:08:15,050 --> 00:08:18,890 S2: encouraging people to understand the asset allocation of these popular 141 00:08:18,890 --> 00:08:22,610 S2: target date funds that they're considering, since the target allocation 142 00:08:22,610 --> 00:08:25,810 S2: may or may not be aligned with their optimal asset allocation. 143 00:08:25,930 --> 00:08:28,809 S2: And now, with the advent of of these private equity 144 00:08:28,810 --> 00:08:32,370 S2: investments being added, potentially to target date funds, we'd encourage 145 00:08:32,370 --> 00:08:34,890 S2: people to make sure they understand what investments are held 146 00:08:34,890 --> 00:08:37,610 S2: by the fund they're considering and see, you know, make 147 00:08:37,650 --> 00:08:39,690 S2: sure they're comfortable with those investments. 148 00:08:39,890 --> 00:08:43,850 S1: Yeah, Matt, you referenced social media a moment ago. And 149 00:08:43,850 --> 00:08:47,089 S1: the fact that these younger investors are now looking to 150 00:08:47,130 --> 00:08:50,869 S1: social media for their advice. Why is that a problem? 151 00:08:51,550 --> 00:08:54,270 S2: Well, anyone with a social media account has the potential 152 00:08:54,270 --> 00:08:57,110 S2: to gain a following. And and the reality is, today 153 00:08:57,110 --> 00:08:59,990 S2: we're so overly communicated that there's a lot of people 154 00:08:59,990 --> 00:09:03,630 S2: competing for attention, and the ones that tend to succeed 155 00:09:03,630 --> 00:09:05,990 S2: are often the ones that have the most controversial points 156 00:09:05,990 --> 00:09:08,990 S2: of view. So if you're going to look to social 157 00:09:08,990 --> 00:09:11,350 S2: media for advice about investing, I would just be sure 158 00:09:11,350 --> 00:09:14,550 S2: to check the credentials of the people giving the advice. 159 00:09:14,710 --> 00:09:18,030 S1: Yeah. That's great. Matt. There's a lot of parents, grandparents 160 00:09:18,030 --> 00:09:20,630 S1: and mentors listening today who want to be able to 161 00:09:20,630 --> 00:09:24,790 S1: walk alongside the next generation as they invest wisely without 162 00:09:24,790 --> 00:09:28,430 S1: coming across as outdated. So how would you encourage them 163 00:09:28,429 --> 00:09:30,069 S1: to start that conversation? 164 00:09:30,429 --> 00:09:33,030 S2: Yeah, I'd start by affirming their interest in investing. It's 165 00:09:33,030 --> 00:09:34,910 S2: a good thing, you know, young people getting started with 166 00:09:34,910 --> 00:09:38,430 S2: investing at their young age is a good thing. So 167 00:09:38,429 --> 00:09:42,390 S2: so emphasize that. Start there and emphasize that that time 168 00:09:42,390 --> 00:09:46,110 S2: is an invaluable asset that they have. God willing, in 169 00:09:46,130 --> 00:09:48,370 S2: In abundance. So, you know, time is one of the 170 00:09:48,370 --> 00:09:52,490 S2: most important ingredients that fuels compounding. But then show them 171 00:09:52,490 --> 00:09:55,290 S2: that the Bible actually has certain principles that that can 172 00:09:55,290 --> 00:09:58,570 S2: inform a good, God honoring investment process, which might be 173 00:09:58,570 --> 00:10:02,569 S2: news to them. Principles like diversification, taking a long term, 174 00:10:02,610 --> 00:10:06,370 S2: steady approach to investing, the use of of wise counselors, 175 00:10:06,530 --> 00:10:08,689 S2: you know, encourage them not to take this ad hoc 176 00:10:08,730 --> 00:10:12,610 S2: approach to investing, which might be promoted through social media, 177 00:10:12,650 --> 00:10:17,490 S2: people suggesting this investment or that. Um, you want to 178 00:10:17,490 --> 00:10:19,929 S2: be careful about doing that. Much better to follow a 179 00:10:19,929 --> 00:10:24,449 S2: process driven strategy that uses objective criteria in deciding what 180 00:10:24,450 --> 00:10:27,090 S2: to invest in, because that can help keep emotion out 181 00:10:27,090 --> 00:10:29,929 S2: of the investing process. And then the last thing is, 182 00:10:29,929 --> 00:10:33,050 S2: I would encourage them to continue learning about investing, but 183 00:10:33,050 --> 00:10:35,370 S2: be discerning about who they listen to. So if they 184 00:10:35,370 --> 00:10:38,410 S2: listen to Faith V regularly, if they read the SMI blog, 185 00:10:38,770 --> 00:10:40,329 S2: those would be some good choices. 186 00:10:40,610 --> 00:10:43,290 S1: Yeah, let's dig into that idea of process a bit more. 187 00:10:43,330 --> 00:10:48,350 S1: I know that's something sound mind investing consistently highlights why 188 00:10:48,350 --> 00:10:53,030 S1: is having a clear, objective strategy, especially in an environment 189 00:10:53,030 --> 00:10:56,110 S1: moving as quickly as this one so vital for investors? 190 00:10:56,830 --> 00:10:59,430 S2: Yeah, I think it ties to the importance of remembering 191 00:10:59,429 --> 00:11:02,750 S2: whose money we're investing. You know, it isn't our money. 192 00:11:02,750 --> 00:11:06,910 S2: It's God's money. And our responsibility is to manage that money, 193 00:11:06,910 --> 00:11:09,910 S2: to manage his money for his purposes and according to 194 00:11:09,950 --> 00:11:15,150 S2: his principles. So investing according to some objective, process driven 195 00:11:15,150 --> 00:11:19,030 S2: strategy that keeps emotion out both sides of the spectrum, 196 00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:21,949 S2: the fear and the greed. It takes that off the table, 197 00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:24,429 S2: you know, because there are a lot of risks involved 198 00:11:24,429 --> 00:11:28,550 S2: in investing, as we know, there's market risk, inflation risk, etc. 199 00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:30,990 S2: but really the biggest risk is getting in our own 200 00:11:30,990 --> 00:11:34,110 S2: way by being swayed by our emotions. So when you 201 00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:37,190 S2: commit to this objective process, it'll go a long way 202 00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:39,309 S2: toward keeping you on course. 203 00:11:39,470 --> 00:11:42,750 S1: Yeah. Matt, you've also underscored how vital it is to 204 00:11:42,790 --> 00:11:46,690 S1: really Understand what you own, especially with these newer or 205 00:11:46,690 --> 00:11:51,530 S1: more complex investments like crypto. So practically, what does that 206 00:11:51,530 --> 00:11:53,450 S1: look like for investors day to day? 207 00:11:53,850 --> 00:11:54,810 S3: Yeah, I think it's just good. 208 00:11:54,809 --> 00:11:58,010 S2: Stewardship that as we invest money we understand what we're 209 00:11:58,010 --> 00:12:01,050 S2: investing in. And and so here's the acid test. And 210 00:12:01,050 --> 00:12:04,530 S2: this is purely my opinion is that could you explain 211 00:12:04,530 --> 00:12:08,210 S2: what you're invested in and why to a middle schooler? 212 00:12:08,210 --> 00:12:10,970 S2: I think that's a good question to ask ourselves, because 213 00:12:11,010 --> 00:12:14,050 S2: after all, we've been entrusted with the responsibility to manage 214 00:12:14,050 --> 00:12:16,809 S2: God's resources. So I think it just makes sense that 215 00:12:16,809 --> 00:12:19,010 S2: we would be clear in our own minds about our 216 00:12:19,010 --> 00:12:21,690 S2: rationale for why we're doing what we're doing, and be 217 00:12:21,730 --> 00:12:24,490 S2: able to clearly articulate it to to someone at the 218 00:12:24,490 --> 00:12:26,970 S2: middle school level. And I think if people if more 219 00:12:26,970 --> 00:12:29,370 S2: investors took on that challenge of being able to really 220 00:12:29,370 --> 00:12:33,330 S2: clearly explain what we're invested in and why. It'll just 221 00:12:33,370 --> 00:12:36,170 S2: it'll just drive us toward becoming better investors. 222 00:12:36,410 --> 00:12:39,370 S1: This is so helpful, Matt. We're nearly out of time. 223 00:12:39,370 --> 00:12:42,010 S1: But Scripture reminds us that wealth is meant to be 224 00:12:42,010 --> 00:12:46,630 S1: built steadily and with discipline. You've referenced that not speculation. 225 00:12:46,630 --> 00:12:50,069 S1: In a world where investing is increasingly gamified, how can 226 00:12:50,110 --> 00:12:53,550 S1: investors of every generation keep their portfolios aligned with what 227 00:12:53,590 --> 00:12:54,589 S1: truly matters? 228 00:12:54,950 --> 00:12:57,750 S2: Yeah, I mean, it's funny, using the words gamification and 229 00:12:57,750 --> 00:13:00,110 S2: investing in the same sense is a little bit jarring, 230 00:13:00,110 --> 00:13:02,870 S2: isn't it? Yeah, sure. But that's exactly what's happening. And 231 00:13:02,870 --> 00:13:05,830 S2: so with these changes that we're seeing in our culture, 232 00:13:06,030 --> 00:13:08,510 S2: the kind of blurring of the line between investing and 233 00:13:08,510 --> 00:13:12,429 S2: gambling is just really important, especially as Christians, to keep 234 00:13:12,429 --> 00:13:15,590 S2: God's Word front and center. The Bible has some very 235 00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:19,510 S2: clear principles that pertain to investing. Ecclesiastes points us to 236 00:13:19,510 --> 00:13:23,670 S2: the wisdom of diversification. First Timothy 610 and other places 237 00:13:23,830 --> 00:13:26,910 S2: warn us against loving money and pursuing wealth too quickly 238 00:13:26,910 --> 00:13:32,150 S2: or recklessly. Proverbs 21 five encourages this steady, plodding approach 239 00:13:32,150 --> 00:13:35,190 S2: to investing. So these principles, you know, they may not 240 00:13:35,230 --> 00:13:37,910 S2: lead to lots of likes or hearts on social media, 241 00:13:38,070 --> 00:13:40,270 S2: but you can't go wrong in following them because they're 242 00:13:40,270 --> 00:13:41,809 S2: all biblical principles. 243 00:13:42,210 --> 00:13:47,089 S1: Every generation invests differently, but God's principles for stewardship haven't changed. 244 00:13:47,090 --> 00:13:51,610 S1: Invest with purpose, patience, and a process that honors him. Matt, 245 00:13:51,610 --> 00:13:53,170 S1: so glad to have you with us today. 246 00:13:53,530 --> 00:13:55,930 S2: It's my pleasure, Rob. I really appreciate the chance to 247 00:13:55,970 --> 00:13:57,970 S2: talk about all this, and I really do hope that 248 00:13:57,970 --> 00:14:02,050 S2: listeners will embrace a biblical approach to investing, not what's 249 00:14:02,050 --> 00:14:03,330 S2: trending on social media. 250 00:14:03,610 --> 00:14:06,130 S1: I couldn't agree more. And for more than 30 years, 251 00:14:06,170 --> 00:14:10,010 S1: folks do it yourself. Investors have trusted sound mind investing 252 00:14:10,010 --> 00:14:13,490 S1: for proven strategies and reliable guidance. You can learn more 253 00:14:13,490 --> 00:14:17,410 S1: and read this article at Sound Mind Investing. All right, 254 00:14:17,410 --> 00:14:22,210 S1: your calls are next. 800 525 7000. We'll be right back. 255 00:14:35,410 --> 00:14:38,530 S4: The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or 256 00:14:38,530 --> 00:14:42,989 S4: professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only. 257 00:14:43,150 --> 00:14:46,550 S4: Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from 258 00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:50,990 S4: a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your 259 00:14:50,990 --> 00:14:52,510 S4: specific situation. 260 00:14:59,070 --> 00:15:01,910 S1: Well, thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live. 261 00:15:01,910 --> 00:15:04,190 S1: I'm Rob West. We're going to be taking your calls 262 00:15:04,190 --> 00:15:06,550 S1: and questions here in just a moment. So if you'd 263 00:15:06,550 --> 00:15:08,790 S1: like to, uh, be a part of the conversation today, 264 00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:11,790 S1: we would certainly invite you to do just that. When 265 00:15:11,790 --> 00:15:17,230 S1: you call 800 525 7000, again, that number is 800 266 00:15:17,270 --> 00:15:21,270 S1: 525 7000. We've got some lines open today. We will 267 00:15:21,270 --> 00:15:24,670 S1: look forward to, uh, tackling whatever you're thinking about in 268 00:15:24,670 --> 00:15:27,070 S1: your financial life. And let's do that right now. We're 269 00:15:27,070 --> 00:15:29,670 S1: going to begin in Ohio today, Anna. Go right ahead. 270 00:15:30,670 --> 00:15:34,070 S5: Hi, Rob. Thanks for taking my call. Of course, my 271 00:15:34,070 --> 00:15:37,710 S5: husband and I are debt free and our retirement is 272 00:15:37,710 --> 00:15:42,330 S5: already being started through mixed accounts, including a Roth and some. 273 00:15:42,370 --> 00:15:46,250 S5: Traditional investments. I'm a state employee, so I have access 274 00:15:46,250 --> 00:15:50,970 S5: to deferred compensation options. So we think these are healthy starts, 275 00:15:50,970 --> 00:15:52,890 S5: but they have room to grow or we have room 276 00:15:52,890 --> 00:15:56,490 S5: to do something else. Um, we're trying to be intentional 277 00:15:56,490 --> 00:15:59,450 S5: about two things strengthening our retirement and also planning for 278 00:15:59,450 --> 00:16:03,130 S5: our children's future. A friend in the financial industry is 279 00:16:03,130 --> 00:16:07,450 S5: strongly suggesting that we look into a whole life insurance investment, 280 00:16:07,690 --> 00:16:11,290 S5: paying a higher premium so it eventually supports itself and 281 00:16:11,290 --> 00:16:15,690 S5: could be borrowed against in the future, etc.. Um, I'm asking, 282 00:16:15,690 --> 00:16:19,210 S5: is this a wise investment or are maybe we're being 283 00:16:19,250 --> 00:16:20,770 S5: scammed or being misled? 284 00:16:21,490 --> 00:16:24,290 S1: Yeah, I wouldn't go as far as scammed or misled, 285 00:16:24,290 --> 00:16:26,450 S1: but I don't know that this would be my first 286 00:16:26,450 --> 00:16:29,730 S1: choice for you, just given what you've described here. I'm 287 00:16:29,730 --> 00:16:32,450 S1: delighted to hear that. Uh, you're putting some of those 288 00:16:32,450 --> 00:16:35,610 S1: key building blocks in place. You're debt free, you're making 289 00:16:35,610 --> 00:16:39,510 S1: wise decisions. You're preparing for retirement. You're doing that in 290 00:16:39,510 --> 00:16:41,990 S1: a systematic way. I love the idea that you want 291 00:16:42,030 --> 00:16:44,510 S1: to get ahead of planning for the future, not only 292 00:16:44,510 --> 00:16:47,030 S1: for yourself, but you know, to the extent you have 293 00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:51,430 S1: the ability beyond saving for retirement and giving currently and 294 00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:54,750 S1: remaining debt free. Setting something aside for the kids, all 295 00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:56,470 S1: that is a good thing. The question is how to 296 00:16:56,470 --> 00:17:00,190 S1: go about it. And usually I like to, and with 297 00:17:00,190 --> 00:17:05,669 S1: some exceptions, keep insurance for offsetting a risk, not making 298 00:17:05,670 --> 00:17:09,149 S1: it a savings vehicle. And that's usually when it's being 299 00:17:09,150 --> 00:17:13,550 S1: proposed in a whole life fashion where mixing the the insurance, 300 00:17:13,550 --> 00:17:17,830 S1: the death benefit which is very necessary with a savings vehicle, 301 00:17:17,830 --> 00:17:21,550 S1: which is often looking to a product that was not 302 00:17:21,550 --> 00:17:25,469 S1: intended for savings to do something that it really wasn't 303 00:17:25,470 --> 00:17:28,830 S1: created to do. I would prefer you do that through 304 00:17:29,470 --> 00:17:33,990 S1: other means, namely retirement accounts, a Roth IRA for each 305 00:17:33,990 --> 00:17:36,690 S1: of you. And if you have the ability to do more, 306 00:17:36,970 --> 00:17:41,290 S1: you know, perhaps just some straight, uh, investments, um, where 307 00:17:41,290 --> 00:17:44,889 S1: you're not mixing your insurance and your savings. But what 308 00:17:44,890 --> 00:17:48,890 S1: specifically was recommended to you? What what type of insurance policy? 309 00:17:49,930 --> 00:17:54,129 S5: Um, it was through Northwest Mutual. Um, I guess maybe 310 00:17:54,170 --> 00:17:58,369 S5: where I'm having some doubts is I don't fully understand it. Um, 311 00:17:58,609 --> 00:18:01,689 S5: and that's kind of that's that's where we're struggling a 312 00:18:01,690 --> 00:18:03,610 S5: little bit is they're asking for quite a bit of 313 00:18:03,609 --> 00:18:07,890 S5: money up front. Um, and then basically telling us that, 314 00:18:07,890 --> 00:18:10,930 S5: you know, we would pay a large premium for ten 315 00:18:10,930 --> 00:18:14,129 S5: years or so and then we would be able to, um, 316 00:18:14,730 --> 00:18:18,250 S5: you know, borrow, borrow against it or use against it, 317 00:18:18,250 --> 00:18:21,490 S5: that type of stuff. So it's a it's a life insurance. 318 00:18:21,530 --> 00:18:23,810 S5: It's a whole life insurance policy. 319 00:18:24,570 --> 00:18:27,410 S1: Yeah. Got it. Yeah. So this is what's called a 320 00:18:27,530 --> 00:18:31,850 S1: ten pay uh often where you kind of it's paid 321 00:18:31,850 --> 00:18:35,390 S1: up life insurance, uh, where you have a large premium 322 00:18:35,390 --> 00:18:38,110 S1: for ten years, it locks up a lot of cash 323 00:18:38,510 --> 00:18:40,470 S1: and a large portion of that's going to go to 324 00:18:40,470 --> 00:18:44,510 S1: a commission and early costs, not growth. So you may 325 00:18:44,510 --> 00:18:47,310 S1: end up having a lower cash value than you expect 326 00:18:47,310 --> 00:18:50,350 S1: in the first 5 to 10 years, because you're paying 327 00:18:50,350 --> 00:18:53,470 S1: now for benefits you may not get for a long time. 328 00:18:53,470 --> 00:18:56,670 S1: So that'd be the first downside is just the high 329 00:18:56,710 --> 00:19:01,070 S1: up front costs. I think. You know, the other issue is, uh, 330 00:19:01,150 --> 00:19:04,030 S1: you know, the cash value is not free money. Borrowing 331 00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:07,870 S1: against the policy sounds appealing, but you pay interest on 332 00:19:07,869 --> 00:19:11,110 S1: your own loan. It reduces your death benefit if it's 333 00:19:11,109 --> 00:19:16,389 S1: not repaid. If the policy underperforms, the loans plus the 334 00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:19,149 S1: interest can erode the value. And in some cases, the 335 00:19:19,150 --> 00:19:22,950 S1: policy could even lapse and and trigger a tax bill. 336 00:19:22,950 --> 00:19:26,070 S1: So loans aren't, quote, risk free. And then I think 337 00:19:26,070 --> 00:19:28,990 S1: the biggest issue is just the returns are often lower 338 00:19:28,990 --> 00:19:33,169 S1: than the alternatives. So people often compare these to a 339 00:19:33,170 --> 00:19:36,169 S1: stock market or an index return, you know, or a 340 00:19:36,170 --> 00:19:41,650 S1: Roth IRA invested in a properly diversified portfolio and permanent insurance, 341 00:19:41,650 --> 00:19:44,610 S1: which is what whole life insurance is, is usually not 342 00:19:44,850 --> 00:19:49,690 S1: the best growth vehicle unless you absolutely need the insurance 343 00:19:49,690 --> 00:19:53,650 S1: and other tools are already maxed out. So I guess 344 00:19:53,650 --> 00:19:55,649 S1: that would be the only remaining question is, do you 345 00:19:55,650 --> 00:19:59,810 S1: have the ability to do more in your other investment vehicles, 346 00:20:00,170 --> 00:20:02,490 S1: or have you kind of maxed all those out? 347 00:20:02,690 --> 00:20:04,650 S5: Um, I think we have a little bit of room 348 00:20:04,650 --> 00:20:07,129 S5: to do more. I think. I think the, the long 349 00:20:07,130 --> 00:20:09,889 S5: and short of it is, is that, um, you know, 350 00:20:10,410 --> 00:20:13,570 S5: investments is not necessarily something that I feel my husband 351 00:20:13,570 --> 00:20:16,450 S5: or I feel greatly strong with. It's something that we're 352 00:20:16,450 --> 00:20:20,290 S5: learning a lot about. Um, you know, for the last 353 00:20:20,410 --> 00:20:23,610 S5: 15 years, it was all about save everything possible so 354 00:20:23,609 --> 00:20:26,050 S5: we would have money to invest. And now we've reached 355 00:20:26,050 --> 00:20:29,290 S5: that point, and now we're almost just stuck in, like, 356 00:20:29,330 --> 00:20:34,429 S5: not always knowing where to go. And he's my husband 357 00:20:34,470 --> 00:20:39,270 S5: is self-employed. And so we're a little leery about, like, 358 00:20:39,310 --> 00:20:42,869 S5: wrapping absolutely everything up in a Ross or some of 359 00:20:42,869 --> 00:20:46,550 S5: the Ohio like, deferred compensation programs, because then we feel 360 00:20:46,550 --> 00:20:51,990 S5: like it's completely untouchable, um, until we're retirement age. And 361 00:20:51,990 --> 00:20:54,590 S5: just kind of that we're, you know, have a, have 362 00:20:54,630 --> 00:20:57,630 S5: an emergency fund if something were to happen. But just 363 00:20:57,630 --> 00:21:00,429 S5: kind of that like we want a little bit of flexibility, 364 00:21:00,430 --> 00:21:02,669 S5: but we also want it to grow, I guess we 365 00:21:02,670 --> 00:21:04,030 S5: want our cake and eat it too. 366 00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:07,510 S1: Yeah. So do you. Would you consider your emergency fund 367 00:21:07,510 --> 00:21:08,990 S1: fully funded at this point? 368 00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:11,350 S5: I think so, yeah. Okay. 369 00:21:11,390 --> 00:21:14,510 S1: Yeah. So and you know, with him being self-employed, the 370 00:21:14,510 --> 00:21:17,790 S1: other option you have is something called a sep IRA Sep. 371 00:21:17,830 --> 00:21:19,190 S1: Are you familiar with that term. 372 00:21:19,710 --> 00:21:21,669 S5: No, I don't think so okay. 373 00:21:21,710 --> 00:21:24,910 S1: Yeah. So this is what's called a simplified employee pension. 374 00:21:24,910 --> 00:21:28,950 S1: And it's used by self-employed individuals and small businesses. You 375 00:21:28,950 --> 00:21:34,060 S1: can put in up to 25% of eligible contribution compensation, 376 00:21:34,060 --> 00:21:39,700 S1: up to 72,000 per 2026. And that would be tax deductible. 377 00:21:39,940 --> 00:21:42,660 S1: Let me just recommend you get a second opinion on this. 378 00:21:42,660 --> 00:21:45,180 S1: Maybe somebody who's going to be less prone to use 379 00:21:45,180 --> 00:21:48,900 S1: an insurance product to solve, uh, you know, the questions 380 00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:52,180 S1: you have moving forward. I'd recommend a you can go 381 00:21:52,180 --> 00:21:55,939 S1: to find a com to find somebody in your area. 382 00:21:55,980 --> 00:21:57,580 S1: Hang on the line. We'll talk a bit more off 383 00:21:57,580 --> 00:22:08,060 S1: the air. We'll be right back. Hey, thanks for joining 384 00:22:08,060 --> 00:22:10,580 S1: us today on faith and finance. I'm Rob West. We're 385 00:22:10,580 --> 00:22:15,020 S1: taking your calls and questions today 800 525 7000. You 386 00:22:15,020 --> 00:22:18,379 S1: can call right now. Let's head back to the phones. Pennsylvania. Scott, 387 00:22:18,380 --> 00:22:19,780 S1: thanks for calling. Go right ahead. 388 00:22:20,980 --> 00:22:24,780 S6: Uh, yeah. Um, I'm a retired military guy, and I 389 00:22:24,820 --> 00:22:28,840 S6: have a a side business, and it generates over my 390 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,160 S6: income generates over $100,000 a year. I live off half 391 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,840 S6: of that in. Um, so I'm living pretty well. But 392 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,239 S6: my question is, uh, I was possibly going to pay 393 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,240 S6: off my house and possibly purchase a second house. Is 394 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,359 S6: that being greedy, or is it okay to buy a 395 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,120 S6: vacation home or even rent out my first home? 396 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,919 S1: Yeah, well, I appreciate the question. And let me just 397 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,040 S1: be clear. I mean, Scripture doesn't forbid owning more than 398 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,680 S1: one home, but what it consistently addresses is what we 399 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,560 S1: talk about all the time here on this program. And 400 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,560 S1: that is the idea of stewardship. First Corinthians four two. Moreover, 401 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,800 S1: it is required of stewards that they be found faithful. 402 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,560 S1: So a second or a vacation home can be a 403 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:15,720 S1: wise decision if it's financially sustainable and doesn't create anxiety 404 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,000 S1: or debt pressure for you and doesn't distract you from 405 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,119 S1: obedience to the Lord. And even from generosity, which I 406 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,300 S1: would submit is one of the primary reasons God entrust 407 00:23:27,340 --> 00:23:30,260 S1: to us what he does in addition to enjoyment, which 408 00:23:30,260 --> 00:23:34,619 S1: is not unbiblical. Uh, that's clearly, you know, referenced in 409 00:23:34,660 --> 00:23:38,180 S1: numerous places in the Bible, including First Timothy. God richly 410 00:23:38,180 --> 00:23:41,700 S1: provides us with everything for our enjoyment. So I think 411 00:23:41,700 --> 00:23:44,940 S1: it really does stem from what is our heart's desire. 412 00:23:45,060 --> 00:23:46,740 S1: We need to make sure that the things of this 413 00:23:46,740 --> 00:23:49,980 S1: world don't compete with our affection to God, who is 414 00:23:49,980 --> 00:23:53,300 S1: our ultimate treasure. And we need to be wise as 415 00:23:53,300 --> 00:23:56,699 S1: stewards in managing what God has entrusted to us. So, 416 00:23:56,940 --> 00:24:00,659 S1: you know, renting your current home and purchasing another can 417 00:24:00,660 --> 00:24:03,699 S1: be prudent if the numbers work and you have plenty 418 00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:07,740 S1: of margin. I think wisdom asks, Will this limit my 419 00:24:07,740 --> 00:24:13,180 S1: ability to give, serve, or respond when God calls? And 420 00:24:13,220 --> 00:24:15,420 S1: you know, the answer to that, I think can ultimately 421 00:24:15,420 --> 00:24:17,980 S1: be a piece of maybe a big piece of you 422 00:24:18,220 --> 00:24:22,860 S1: answering this question. But again, you know, I think at 423 00:24:22,859 --> 00:24:26,400 S1: the same time, Jesus is reminding us that, you know, 424 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,920 S1: enjoying what he's provided is certainly, you know, within his 425 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,000 S1: framework of of why he entrusts to us what he does. 426 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,120 S1: I think he's also reminding us clearly that we're to 427 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,280 S1: store up treasures in heaven. We see that in Matthew six. So, 428 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:44,000 S1: you know, perhaps a helpful framework is provide wisely, enjoy 429 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,560 S1: gratefully and give generously. And if your plan supports all 430 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,560 S1: three and you've prayed through it, you've sought some counsel. 431 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,600 S1: Clearly you're doing that today. I would say move forward 432 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,360 S1: in faith, trusting God as your ultimate security. Does that 433 00:24:58,359 --> 00:24:59,119 S1: make sense, though? 434 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,400 S6: Oh yeah. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. I'm just wondering if there 435 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,119 S6: was a thin line between greed and, I mean, I 436 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,560 S6: guess generosity and self-satisfaction. I guess that was offensive. How 437 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,840 S6: much is too much to be generous with, and how 438 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,840 S6: much is too much to, I guess, be happy with 439 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,600 S6: myself or to contribute to myself? 440 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,360 S1: Yeah, and it would be great if God's Word said, well, 441 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:25,140 S1: anything beyond, you know, living on 68.2% of your income 442 00:25:25,300 --> 00:25:29,980 S1: is moving from, you know, enjoyment to, uh, something that's 443 00:25:29,980 --> 00:25:32,699 S1: beyond that. It's not there. And so what do we 444 00:25:32,700 --> 00:25:35,980 S1: do with that? Well, we ask God and he will 445 00:25:35,980 --> 00:25:39,060 S1: provide that wisdom. You know, uh, we see that clearly 446 00:25:39,060 --> 00:25:41,180 S1: in James. If we lack wisdom, we should ask God, 447 00:25:41,180 --> 00:25:44,260 S1: who provides it richly to us. So, you know, I 448 00:25:44,260 --> 00:25:46,780 S1: think perhaps taking the next couple of weeks and maybe 449 00:25:46,780 --> 00:25:50,020 S1: you just start the the day on your knees saying, Lord, 450 00:25:50,020 --> 00:25:52,140 S1: what would you have me to do with what you've 451 00:25:52,180 --> 00:25:55,140 S1: entrusted to me? But I think, again, at the end 452 00:25:55,140 --> 00:26:00,580 S1: of the day, it's striking this balance between understanding that, 453 00:26:00,619 --> 00:26:03,500 S1: you know, in part, God provides to us so that 454 00:26:03,500 --> 00:26:09,220 S1: we can bless and serve others, be participants in God's economy. Um, 455 00:26:09,380 --> 00:26:12,580 S1: he also provides it to us for our enjoyment. And 456 00:26:12,580 --> 00:26:16,500 S1: so we have to in prayer and, you know, through 457 00:26:16,540 --> 00:26:20,419 S1: seeking his, uh, his word and meditating on Scripture, I 458 00:26:20,420 --> 00:26:24,440 S1: think find that place that we feel like is appropriate, 459 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,560 S1: where we can be God honoring, where we can be 460 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,760 S1: wise stewards, where we can enjoy appropriately what he's he's 461 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,600 S1: given us, but not allow that to to stumble into 462 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:38,600 S1: something that either creates anxiety or pressure or, uh, you know, 463 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,199 S1: limits our ability to respond to the leading of the 464 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,360 S1: Lord when he prompts us to give generously. And I 465 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,880 S1: think in the in the tension of those two is 466 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,120 S1: a really healthy place to be where we're just seeking 467 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,840 S1: God's wisdom at the end of the day. Does that 468 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:54,600 S1: make sense, though? 469 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,439 S6: Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you 470 00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:58,679 S6: very much. I appreciate that. 471 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,760 S1: All right. Thanks for your call today. Call anytime. Uh, 472 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,840 S1: let's go to Cleveland. Lorena. Go ahead. 473 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,760 S7: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Question. Once I 474 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:13,280 S7: pay off my credit card, um, do I just refrain 475 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,960 S7: from using it and just keep it, or do I 476 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,040 S7: just close it without affecting my credit score? 477 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,460 S1: Yeah, yeah. Great question. Yeah. I think, you know, when 478 00:27:23,460 --> 00:27:28,460 S1: we close a card, it can temporarily cause your score 479 00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:34,300 S1: to drop slightly. And the reason is often either it's 480 00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:38,260 S1: it's an older card. And so by pulling that history out, 481 00:27:38,300 --> 00:27:41,139 S1: history is one of the five key factors that drives 482 00:27:41,140 --> 00:27:44,859 S1: your credit score. And so by removing that from being 483 00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:48,420 S1: an active account, in many cases you lose the history 484 00:27:48,420 --> 00:27:52,060 S1: associated with it. And then secondly, it does have a 485 00:27:52,060 --> 00:27:57,220 S1: tendency to change, um, what's uh, referred to uh, as 486 00:27:57,220 --> 00:28:01,700 S1: your credit utilization. And so your credit utilization is the 487 00:28:01,700 --> 00:28:06,619 S1: total credit available to you versus the amount of debt 488 00:28:06,619 --> 00:28:10,780 S1: you have outstanding. And if that goes above 30%, your 489 00:28:10,780 --> 00:28:14,100 S1: credit score starts to come down dramatically. And so here's 490 00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:16,580 S1: where that would play out. And this may not apply 491 00:28:16,580 --> 00:28:20,159 S1: to you, but in some cases people are carrying balances 492 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,000 S1: on other cards. And even if this one's paid off, 493 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,440 S1: if you pull this one out of the equation and 494 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,360 S1: the total available credit is now comes down by the 495 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,080 S1: amount of credit that was available on the card you 496 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,600 S1: just closed. Those balances you're carrying are now a higher 497 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,080 S1: percentage of the total available to you. And if that 498 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,160 S1: trips over 30%, that can start to pull your score down. 499 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,640 S1: But at the end of the day, if this is 500 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,080 S1: just one card and you've got several others and you've 501 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,880 S1: got active credit and you're an on time payer and 502 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,959 S1: you're not going out and looking to qualify for a 503 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,560 S1: loan to buy a house or a car in the next, 504 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,000 S1: you know, 90 days. I would say it's probably in 505 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,200 S1: your best interest to go ahead and close it out. 506 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,640 S1: It's one less card that has the ability to be compromised. Um, 507 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,960 S1: and so by closing it, you no longer have to 508 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,600 S1: keep up with it. And any, um, erosion in your 509 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,800 S1: credit score would be temporary, and it would come right back. 510 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:18,780 S1: Does that make sense? 511 00:29:19,700 --> 00:29:22,940 S7: Yes. But now what if I'm scared that I'm going 512 00:29:22,980 --> 00:29:26,340 S7: to get that annual fee? Do I just pay it? 513 00:29:27,220 --> 00:29:29,260 S1: Well, that would be another reason why you'd want to 514 00:29:29,300 --> 00:29:32,180 S1: close it. I mean, if there's an annual fee associated 515 00:29:32,180 --> 00:29:34,620 S1: with this card and it's not one you're using, even 516 00:29:34,620 --> 00:29:37,260 S1: if it is, I would be looking to get rid 517 00:29:37,300 --> 00:29:40,500 S1: of this card and move to a different one. So, yeah, 518 00:29:40,540 --> 00:29:44,340 S1: I think, uh, again, unless you're right on the heels 519 00:29:44,340 --> 00:29:46,860 S1: of going out and trying to qualify for a loan 520 00:29:46,860 --> 00:29:49,260 S1: and you need your credit score as high as possible, 521 00:29:49,580 --> 00:29:53,420 S1: I'd say go ahead and close this. Simplify your financial life. 522 00:29:53,420 --> 00:29:55,820 S1: And if this is a card that, uh, has some 523 00:29:55,820 --> 00:29:58,300 S1: sort of annual fee on it, I would absolutely get 524 00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:01,900 S1: rid of it because that's just a fee you're paying unnecessarily. 525 00:30:02,900 --> 00:30:04,420 S7: Okay. Thank you so much. 526 00:30:04,460 --> 00:30:08,140 S1: Appreciate it. Absolutely. Thanks for your call, Lorena. Thanks for 527 00:30:08,140 --> 00:30:11,100 S1: being on the program today. Well, folks, uh, we've still got, uh, 528 00:30:11,100 --> 00:30:13,860 S1: more time for you. We've got one final segment coming up. 529 00:30:13,860 --> 00:30:16,260 S1: When we come back, we'll head down to Tampa and 530 00:30:16,260 --> 00:30:19,160 S1: talk to Andy. Then we'll head out to Lake George, 531 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,160 S1: New York and talk to Laurie. Perhaps your question as well. 532 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,600 S1: We've got room for maybe 1 to 2 more in 533 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,160 S1: addition to those holding. So get, uh, get on your 534 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,880 S1: phone right now and call 800 525 7000. Again, that's 535 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:36,720 S1: 800 525 7000. This is faith and finance live. I'm 536 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,920 S1: Rob West helping you live as a wise and faithful 537 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,000 S1: steward of God's resources. That's why we gather together each 538 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,200 S1: day on this program. We'll do more of that just 539 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,480 S1: around the corner when we return from this break. Don't 540 00:30:48,480 --> 00:31:08,560 S1: go anywhere. Thanks for joining us today on Faith and 541 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,560 S1: Finance Live. I'm Rob West. Let's head down to Tampa, Florida. 542 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:13,440 S1: Andy go ahead. 543 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,060 S8: Hi, Rob. How are you? 544 00:31:16,420 --> 00:31:18,060 S1: I'm doing great. Appreciate your call. 545 00:31:18,740 --> 00:31:22,540 S8: Good, good. Uh, my question is, I have a line 546 00:31:22,580 --> 00:31:28,860 S8: of credit of $50,000. That's five zero at 12%, which 547 00:31:28,860 --> 00:31:33,020 S8: I got, like about two years ago. So my question is, 548 00:31:33,460 --> 00:31:36,780 S8: should I get a different line of credit with a 549 00:31:36,820 --> 00:31:40,180 S8: lower interest rate and pay off this current one, or 550 00:31:40,660 --> 00:31:43,020 S8: is it best to get an equity loan on the 551 00:31:43,020 --> 00:31:45,940 S8: property to get rid of the line of credit? 552 00:31:46,780 --> 00:31:50,380 S1: Yeah. So what property is this collateralized by? 553 00:31:52,660 --> 00:31:55,220 S8: Uh, the current one. The current line of credit. 554 00:31:55,460 --> 00:31:59,020 S1: Yeah. The 50,000 at 12%. Is is that a line 555 00:31:59,060 --> 00:32:01,420 S1: of credit against a property right now? 556 00:32:02,340 --> 00:32:05,260 S8: It is, it is, it's against it's against the current property. 557 00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:07,140 S8: My principal residence. 558 00:32:07,460 --> 00:32:10,620 S1: So your principal residence. And why is that interest rate 559 00:32:10,620 --> 00:32:11,260 S1: so high? 560 00:32:12,780 --> 00:32:16,560 S8: Uh, I don't know, I got, I got that two, uh, 561 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,320 S8: two years ago and that was what they, uh, what 562 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:20,920 S8: they quoted me at 12%. 563 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,440 S1: Wow. Yeah. Okay. What is your credit score today? Do 564 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:24,880 S1: you know? 565 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,080 S8: I do not know that, but, um, about. It's it's 566 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,080 S8: pretty good. I mean, I was able to get a 2.5, um, 567 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,040 S8: you know, loan on my on my, on my principal 568 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,920 S8: property about five years ago. And it's only gotten better. 569 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,240 S1: Okay. Yeah. And is this. It's a home equity loan 570 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:45,440 S1: or a line of credit? 571 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,720 S8: It's a line of credit. What I have right now. 572 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,840 S1: Okay. And, uh, do you. The current balance is 50,000. 573 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:53,640 S1: Is that right? 574 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:55,160 S8: That's correct. Yes, sir. 575 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,239 S1: Okay. Yeah. I mean, I would definitely, uh, look to 576 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,880 S1: replace that. I mean, you should be able to do 577 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,200 S1: quite a bit better than that, I would say. I mean, 578 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,640 S1: home equity lines of credit are variable, but you should 579 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:13,620 S1: be somewhere between 7 and 9% on the high end, 580 00:33:14,060 --> 00:33:18,620 S1: 12 is very high. Um, so I would be shopping 581 00:33:18,620 --> 00:33:22,180 S1: around just to see about replacing that. Uh, apart from 582 00:33:22,180 --> 00:33:25,060 S1: just refinancing that, paying it off with a new line 583 00:33:25,100 --> 00:33:28,300 S1: of credit. Um, do you have a first mortgage on 584 00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:29,420 S1: the property as well? 585 00:33:29,980 --> 00:33:30,980 S8: I do, yes, sir. 586 00:33:31,460 --> 00:33:33,860 S1: Okay. And you said that one's a two and a half. 587 00:33:34,780 --> 00:33:35,900 S8: A two and a half. Yes. 588 00:33:36,300 --> 00:33:38,940 S1: Okay. And what is the home worth, do you think? 589 00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:42,460 S8: About 460 to 470. 590 00:33:42,820 --> 00:33:44,580 S1: All right. What do you owe on the first. 591 00:33:45,420 --> 00:33:46,340 S8: 201. 592 00:33:46,740 --> 00:33:49,940 S1: Okay. Yeah. So you got plenty of equity in the property. 593 00:33:49,940 --> 00:33:52,820 S1: And with a good credit score, there's no reason for 594 00:33:52,820 --> 00:33:55,580 S1: you to be up in this, uh, in this range 595 00:33:55,580 --> 00:34:00,020 S1: at that astronomically high rate. What? What else were you considering? 596 00:34:00,020 --> 00:34:02,820 S1: I know you said I could refinance it with a 597 00:34:02,820 --> 00:34:06,180 S1: new home equity line of credit on the same principal residence. 598 00:34:06,180 --> 00:34:07,900 S1: Were you considering an alternative? 599 00:34:09,340 --> 00:34:12,200 S8: Uh, no, I was just, do I. You know, it 600 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,480 S8: was just, you know, do I get the a different 601 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,120 S8: line of credit to pay off this current one at 602 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,520 S8: a lower rate or just do the, uh, the equity? 603 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,080 S8: I didn't have anything else in mind. 604 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,279 S1: Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, basically what you'd be doing is, 605 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,719 S1: is refinancing this. And by in doing so, you'd be 606 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,960 S1: paying off the current line of credit, closing it and 607 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,919 S1: then putting a new line of credit in place. You 608 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,640 S1: obviously don't want to touch that first mortgage just because 609 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,839 S1: that rate is so phenomenal. Uh, 2.5%. We're probably not 610 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,680 S1: going to see that anytime soon. So, um, you know, 611 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,240 S1: I think, uh, you're on the right track here. And 612 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,200 S1: given the equity that you've got in the property, um, 613 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,080 S1: you know, you you may want to look and and 614 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,760 S1: see if, you know, the current lender would be willing 615 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,520 S1: to kind of rightsize, uh, this, uh, this rate. And 616 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,879 S1: if so, that could save you some money just in 617 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:08,240 S1: terms of the closing costs related to that. But if not, um, 618 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,819 S1: there are plenty of home equity lines of credit out 619 00:35:10,820 --> 00:35:14,340 S1: there right now that not only have really compelling rates, 620 00:35:14,340 --> 00:35:17,940 S1: but are offering fee free lines of credit, meaning, you know, 621 00:35:17,980 --> 00:35:20,860 S1: you may not have to pay for the appraisal and 622 00:35:20,860 --> 00:35:24,100 S1: you certainly might be able to avoid, um, you know, the, 623 00:35:24,340 --> 00:35:27,860 S1: the origination costs or something like that. So, you know, 624 00:35:27,900 --> 00:35:31,419 S1: if you could drop that by 4%, that would save 625 00:35:31,420 --> 00:35:35,420 S1: you about $2,000 a year in interest. And even if 626 00:35:35,420 --> 00:35:39,180 S1: you paid, let's say, $1,500 in closing costs, you'd break 627 00:35:39,180 --> 00:35:42,860 S1: even in less than a year. So I would, uh, 628 00:35:42,860 --> 00:35:45,540 S1: I would call around to the local credit unions in 629 00:35:45,540 --> 00:35:48,100 S1: your area. You could look at some of the online banks. 630 00:35:48,380 --> 00:35:50,700 S1: See if you can find someone that offers that a 631 00:35:50,820 --> 00:35:53,859 S1: no closing cost home equity loan. And if you can 632 00:35:53,860 --> 00:35:56,940 S1: get a rate, you know, under 9% in the eights, 633 00:35:57,340 --> 00:36:00,700 S1: obviously seven would the sevens would be even better, I'd say. 634 00:36:00,860 --> 00:36:02,540 S1: I'd move forward with that approach. 635 00:36:03,260 --> 00:36:05,820 S8: All right. That sounds great. Thank you very much, Rob 636 00:36:05,860 --> 00:36:06,739 S8: I appreciate it. 637 00:36:07,060 --> 00:36:10,090 S1: Absolutely. Call anytime. Thanks for being on the program, Andy. 638 00:36:10,130 --> 00:36:13,530 S1: Let's head to Lake George, New York. Lori. Go ahead. 639 00:36:14,730 --> 00:36:18,410 S9: Hi, Rob, thanks so much. I'm calling on behalf of 640 00:36:18,410 --> 00:36:20,930 S9: my daughter and son in law. They were asking me 641 00:36:20,930 --> 00:36:23,009 S9: for advice and I said, well, I know a better 642 00:36:23,010 --> 00:36:24,010 S9: person to ask. 643 00:36:24,410 --> 00:36:24,730 S1: So. 644 00:36:26,250 --> 00:36:29,729 S9: Um, they have a home which they have owned for 645 00:36:29,730 --> 00:36:34,770 S9: three years. They bought it at 250,000. The mortgage is 646 00:36:34,770 --> 00:36:38,370 S9: down to 65,000. They've just paid a big chunk a 647 00:36:38,410 --> 00:36:42,930 S9: couple of weeks ago. And, um, this past week, they've 648 00:36:43,170 --> 00:36:46,969 S9: had an opportunity to buy an investment property in a 649 00:36:47,010 --> 00:36:52,370 S9: nice vacation area. They're wondering if a cash out refinance 650 00:36:53,010 --> 00:36:55,410 S9: or a HELOC or a home equity loan would be 651 00:36:55,410 --> 00:36:56,450 S9: their best bet. 652 00:36:57,610 --> 00:36:57,970 S3: Yeah. 653 00:36:58,010 --> 00:37:01,210 S9: The house, the house that they're looking at is, is 654 00:37:01,210 --> 00:37:05,530 S9: a fixer upper, which, um, they're okay to, to, uh, 655 00:37:05,530 --> 00:37:10,390 S9: to work on. its at 180,000, which is a pretty 656 00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:14,590 S9: good price for three and a half acres. And the 657 00:37:14,590 --> 00:37:18,070 S9: structure is in a place where it could be fixed 658 00:37:18,070 --> 00:37:22,190 S9: up and rented for 5 or 6 years, and eventually 659 00:37:22,190 --> 00:37:24,790 S9: they want to build on that piece of property and 660 00:37:24,790 --> 00:37:29,630 S9: sell their current home. So they've been given a 6% 661 00:37:29,630 --> 00:37:33,110 S9: interest rate. As for a cash out refinance from the 662 00:37:33,110 --> 00:37:36,229 S9: local bank, but they just wondered if there were other 663 00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:37,870 S9: options they should look into. 664 00:37:38,310 --> 00:37:41,990 S1: Yeah, yeah. Got it. Yeah. I mean, you know, the 665 00:37:42,030 --> 00:37:45,150 S1: cash out refinance may not be ideal because they'd be 666 00:37:45,150 --> 00:37:49,629 S1: replacing a small, likely low rate mortgage. I don't know, 667 00:37:49,630 --> 00:37:52,150 S1: did you mention what the current rate is on that 668 00:37:52,150 --> 00:37:54,310 S1: $65,000 that remains. 669 00:37:54,989 --> 00:37:57,830 S9: Yeah. They're up a little bit higher than the 6% 670 00:37:57,830 --> 00:37:59,910 S9: they were offered. I think they're at six and a 671 00:37:59,989 --> 00:38:04,310 S9: half close to seven for the current mortgage payment. 672 00:38:05,030 --> 00:38:08,810 S1: Okay. so they're at between 6 and 7% on the 673 00:38:08,810 --> 00:38:12,009 S1: current mortgage, but it's down to 65. And you said 674 00:38:12,010 --> 00:38:15,730 S1: they had an offer for the cash out refinance. What 675 00:38:15,730 --> 00:38:16,650 S1: was that rate? 676 00:38:17,530 --> 00:38:21,489 S9: The rate was 6% at the local bank okay. 677 00:38:21,770 --> 00:38:24,290 S1: Which is very attractive right now. I mean, that's that's 678 00:38:24,290 --> 00:38:27,850 S1: lower than the national average for sure. And so they 679 00:38:27,850 --> 00:38:32,529 S1: would replace that 65,000. And then how much additional would 680 00:38:32,530 --> 00:38:34,010 S1: they have to pull against that. 681 00:38:34,770 --> 00:38:37,890 S9: They'd have to pull 180 out. So the total would 682 00:38:37,890 --> 00:38:39,410 S9: be 245. 683 00:38:39,850 --> 00:38:42,250 S1: Okay. And what did you say the property is worth? 684 00:38:43,930 --> 00:38:48,410 S9: Um, their current home is worth 325. The house that 685 00:38:48,410 --> 00:38:52,609 S9: they're looking to buy is not worth more than the 686 00:38:52,610 --> 00:38:56,530 S9: 180 at the moment. But the potential is there for, 687 00:38:56,890 --> 00:38:58,050 S9: you know, to be fixed. 688 00:38:58,730 --> 00:39:01,410 S1: Okay. So the good news is they'd have still quite 689 00:39:01,410 --> 00:39:04,669 S1: a bit of equity. And that's a fairly attractive rate. 690 00:39:04,670 --> 00:39:07,510 S1: And it's more than just a, you know, a property 691 00:39:07,510 --> 00:39:09,270 S1: that they're going to try to buy and fix it up, 692 00:39:09,310 --> 00:39:12,549 S1: fix up and flip. I mean, to your point, they eventually, 693 00:39:12,590 --> 00:39:14,270 S1: you know, want to be long term owners of this 694 00:39:14,270 --> 00:39:17,189 S1: property and build there, which is great. Um, I think 695 00:39:17,190 --> 00:39:19,910 S1: the big question is, you know, this is probably the 696 00:39:20,030 --> 00:39:23,750 S1: the least expensive source of funds that they would be 697 00:39:23,790 --> 00:39:26,310 S1: able to come up with. Uh, they just need to 698 00:39:26,350 --> 00:39:29,350 S1: know that, you know, they're encumbering their what is today 699 00:39:29,350 --> 00:39:33,230 S1: their primary residence. And so there's always some risk associated 700 00:39:33,230 --> 00:39:37,470 S1: with that. They've obviously demonstrated themselves to be very, you know, 701 00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:40,790 S1: wise stewards of the resources God has given them, as 702 00:39:40,790 --> 00:39:44,150 S1: evidenced by them being able to pay down this home 703 00:39:44,150 --> 00:39:47,549 S1: that they're currently living in so aggressively. And so, I 704 00:39:47,550 --> 00:39:51,710 S1: would say, just given their demonstration of discipline, money management, 705 00:39:51,710 --> 00:39:53,750 S1: on top of the fact that, you know, that's a 706 00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:56,230 S1: very attractive rate they're being offered. I would want to 707 00:39:56,270 --> 00:39:58,549 S1: know kind of what are the closing costs and make 708 00:39:58,590 --> 00:40:01,709 S1: sure that there's not a lot of origination costs where 709 00:40:01,710 --> 00:40:04,649 S1: they're kind of buying that rate down, but they're going 710 00:40:04,690 --> 00:40:07,770 S1: to have to either come out of pocket with, you know, 711 00:40:07,810 --> 00:40:11,009 S1: a significant amount of closing or they're adding to the 712 00:40:11,010 --> 00:40:14,489 S1: mortgage by doing that. But assuming there's not anything going 713 00:40:14,489 --> 00:40:17,210 S1: on like that and this is just a really competitive rate, 714 00:40:17,450 --> 00:40:19,610 S1: I think given the equity that they would still have 715 00:40:19,610 --> 00:40:22,690 S1: in their long term plan about this property. Plus it 716 00:40:22,690 --> 00:40:24,609 S1: sounds like they're pretty handy and they're going to do 717 00:40:24,610 --> 00:40:26,650 S1: a lot of this work themselves. Is that right? 718 00:40:27,530 --> 00:40:31,810 S9: That's right. Yeah. The place they live in now totally redone. Yeah. 719 00:40:31,850 --> 00:40:35,490 S9: And and it is a no fee, no fee refinance 720 00:40:35,489 --> 00:40:39,370 S9: for them. Except that it is it is a, an 721 00:40:39,370 --> 00:40:44,930 S9: arm with a seven year, um, fixed amount on it 722 00:40:44,930 --> 00:40:47,370 S9: so it won't go up, but they pay it down. 723 00:40:47,410 --> 00:40:50,570 S9: You know, if it has a possibility to go down, 724 00:40:50,570 --> 00:40:51,570 S9: they could go down. 725 00:40:51,850 --> 00:40:55,330 S1: Sure. And is there a plan to be relocated to 726 00:40:55,370 --> 00:40:57,410 S1: this new property within seven years? 727 00:40:58,250 --> 00:41:01,430 S9: I think between 5 and 7 years. Is their there hope? 728 00:41:01,950 --> 00:41:05,310 S1: Okay. So it really mitigates that risk because if it's 729 00:41:05,310 --> 00:41:08,549 S1: fixed for seven before it starts to adjust annually with 730 00:41:08,550 --> 00:41:12,230 S1: A71 arm, uh, you know, they should be out of there. 731 00:41:12,270 --> 00:41:14,710 S1: Would have sold this property and paid off the loan, 732 00:41:14,830 --> 00:41:16,950 S1: you know, at that point and still have money to 733 00:41:16,989 --> 00:41:20,110 S1: show for it. So I think the only remaining question 734 00:41:20,110 --> 00:41:25,069 S1: is just, you know, are they able, uh, to to 735 00:41:25,110 --> 00:41:28,469 S1: cover the new mortgage payment and not put themselves in 736 00:41:28,469 --> 00:41:32,310 S1: a position where they're really squeezed financially? Um, do you 737 00:41:32,310 --> 00:41:34,990 S1: feel like that? You know, this mortgage payment would be 738 00:41:34,989 --> 00:41:40,030 S1: somewhere around 25% or less of their take home pay. 739 00:41:40,070 --> 00:41:41,430 S1: Do you have do you have any idea? 740 00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:44,710 S9: Yeah, I think it is. It's actually not going to 741 00:41:44,710 --> 00:41:48,270 S9: be much more than, if any more than what they've 742 00:41:48,270 --> 00:41:52,350 S9: been currently paying, because now they've put such a big 743 00:41:52,350 --> 00:41:54,710 S9: chunk on the principal. 744 00:41:55,110 --> 00:41:58,030 S1: Yeah, that makes sense. So their mortgage payment is still 745 00:41:58,030 --> 00:42:01,450 S1: amortized based on the original amount they borrowed, even though 746 00:42:01,450 --> 00:42:04,930 S1: they paid it down so significantly. So. Yeah, I like 747 00:42:04,930 --> 00:42:06,609 S1: this a lot. I mean, I think this is a 748 00:42:06,610 --> 00:42:10,570 S1: great plan. It sounds like they're really thoughtful and wise 749 00:42:10,570 --> 00:42:13,370 S1: about what they're doing here, and I don't see any 750 00:42:13,410 --> 00:42:14,370 S1: downside to it. 751 00:42:15,290 --> 00:42:17,969 S9: Oh, that sounds great. Okay. Thank you so much. We 752 00:42:17,969 --> 00:42:19,370 S9: appreciate your wisdom. 753 00:42:20,010 --> 00:42:22,770 S1: Absolutely, Lori. Thanks for listening and calling in today. I 754 00:42:22,770 --> 00:42:27,090 S1: appreciate you and call anytime. Michelle in Chicago I apologize 755 00:42:27,090 --> 00:42:28,569 S1: we didn't get to you today. Let's see if we 756 00:42:28,570 --> 00:42:31,489 S1: can get scheduled, uh, to be first up tomorrow. I'd 757 00:42:31,489 --> 00:42:34,529 S1: love to tackle your question about, uh, the annuity that 758 00:42:34,530 --> 00:42:37,410 S1: you've purchased recently. And, um, we'll hope we can do 759 00:42:37,410 --> 00:42:39,970 S1: that real soon. Folks. Thanks for being with us today. 760 00:42:39,969 --> 00:42:42,570 S1: What a treat. Uh, to, uh, be able to serve 761 00:42:42,570 --> 00:42:44,529 S1: you and encourage you and help you live as a 762 00:42:44,530 --> 00:42:48,010 S1: faithful steward. Faith and finance lives a partnership between Faith 763 00:42:48,010 --> 00:42:52,810 S1: fi and Moody Radio. Big thanks to my team Taylor, Tyra, Ananda, Dan, 764 00:42:52,810 --> 00:42:55,210 S1: and everybody here at Faith fi. We'll see you tomorrow. 765 00:42:55,210 --> 00:42:55,609 S1: Bye bye.