1 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,160 S1: Doctors said she was a lost cause. Her case was hopeless, 2 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:16,320 S1: but she overcame her physical problems. It's really a miraculous story, 3 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,480 S1: but there was a struggle that people couldn't see. She writes. 4 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,560 S1: The physical challenges I had endured didn't prepare me for 5 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:29,600 S1: the mental ones, because the obvious battles that everyone saw 6 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,560 S1: were not the secret ones that stripped me of my 7 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:39,120 S1: strength and threatened my will to live. Author, speaker, TV host, 8 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,040 S1: and gold medalist winner Victoria Arlen's gonna join us today 9 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,839 S1: on Chris Fabry Live. The program from the heart to 10 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,120 S1: the heart, for the heart and for the mind as well. 11 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,199 S1: She really believes we need to talk more about mental 12 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,000 S1: health in the church, and you'll find out why. Straight 13 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,760 S1: ahead at the radio backyard fence. Let me ask you this. 14 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,840 S1: I think there's probably somebody listening today who will identify 15 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,640 S1: with this thought. You feel like you're on a boat 16 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:09,520 S1: with a crowd of people, but you've fallen overboard and 17 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,640 S1: nobody notices. If that's how you feel, don't miss the 18 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,800 S1: conversation straight ahead. Let me thank our team behind the scenes. 19 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,919 S1: Ryan McConaughey doing all things technical. Trish is our producer. 20 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,360 S1: Lisa is helping out. Josh will be answering your calls today. 21 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,120 S1: And thank you to those who have supported us here 22 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,360 S1: in May. I got a voicemail over the weekend from 23 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,880 S1: a listener who said, Chris, I heard about the the 24 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,280 S1: resource that you're offering this month. I really need it, 25 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:38,360 S1: but I can't support you right now. Could we, would you, 26 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,720 S1: could you? And immediately I sent it to our pal Laurie. 27 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,720 S1: And I said, I believe there's somebody who's going to 28 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,240 S1: give in support of us in her place today. So 29 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,840 S1: if you call or click through today, we're going to 30 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,520 S1: send her a copy and we'd love to send you 31 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,240 S1: a copy of Powerful Self-Talk from the Psalms. The author's 32 00:01:58,310 --> 00:02:01,470 S1: going to join us tomorrow, John Gager, and he believes 33 00:02:01,470 --> 00:02:03,710 S1: you and I can begin to believe the truth about 34 00:02:03,710 --> 00:02:07,190 S1: ourselves by looking at what the Psalms can say to 35 00:02:07,230 --> 00:02:09,790 S1: our hearts. Let us send you a copy. Give a 36 00:02:09,830 --> 00:02:12,750 S1: gift of any size. Eight. Six. Six. Nine five. Fabry 37 00:02:12,750 --> 00:02:20,750 S1: is the number (866) 953-2279. Or go to Chris fabry.org. Scroll down. 38 00:02:20,750 --> 00:02:23,350 S1: You'll see how you can support us right there. Thank 39 00:02:23,350 --> 00:02:26,870 S1: you for your gift here in May. Chris Fabry Fabry, 40 00:02:27,190 --> 00:02:33,030 S1: Chris Fabry live dot ORG Victoria Ireland is a motivational speaker, 41 00:02:33,030 --> 00:02:37,070 S1: a TV host, reporter, author, gold medalist, swimmer. What has 42 00:02:37,070 --> 00:02:40,870 S1: she not done? Her TV career spans more than a decade. 43 00:02:41,030 --> 00:02:43,470 S1: She started at the age of 20 while she was 44 00:02:43,470 --> 00:02:47,669 S1: in a wheelchair. She's achieved far more than I ever imagined, 45 00:02:47,669 --> 00:02:50,910 S1: especially after not being expected to live to 15 years 46 00:02:50,910 --> 00:02:55,430 S1: of age and facing obstacle after obstacle. Her comeback story 47 00:02:55,430 --> 00:03:00,350 S1: was chronicled in her first book, titled Locked In. Her 48 00:03:00,350 --> 00:03:03,750 S1: latest is Just Out the View is Worth It, unlocking 49 00:03:03,750 --> 00:03:07,590 S1: the beauty in life's peaks and valleys. You'll find it 50 00:03:07,590 --> 00:03:12,510 S1: at the website kris.org. Victoria, welcome. How are you doing today? 51 00:03:13,150 --> 00:03:15,870 S2: I'm doing great. How are you? Thank you for having me. 52 00:03:16,070 --> 00:03:18,470 S1: I'm you know, I put my when I saw that 53 00:03:18,470 --> 00:03:20,709 S1: you were on the program today, I put my left 54 00:03:20,710 --> 00:03:22,829 S1: foot down. I said thank. And I put my right 55 00:03:22,830 --> 00:03:26,230 S1: foot down and said, you. So I'm doing exactly. That's 56 00:03:26,230 --> 00:03:28,989 S1: how you wake up every day. Thank you. Right. 57 00:03:29,430 --> 00:03:32,350 S2: Mhm. Yeah. I mean, for well over a decade, I 58 00:03:32,350 --> 00:03:35,470 S2: couldn't get out of bed either on my own or 59 00:03:35,470 --> 00:03:38,270 S2: I'd be getting in a wheelchair, so I do not. 60 00:03:38,310 --> 00:03:40,470 S2: I like to set the tone for the day, and 61 00:03:40,470 --> 00:03:42,030 S2: putting my feet on the ground is the first thing 62 00:03:42,030 --> 00:03:44,070 S2: we do. And so I have to give thanks for that. 63 00:03:44,390 --> 00:03:48,070 S1: MM. For those who don't know the totality of your story, 64 00:03:48,070 --> 00:03:50,310 S1: can you give us kind of a flyover of what 65 00:03:50,310 --> 00:03:51,190 S1: happened to you? 66 00:03:52,230 --> 00:03:54,350 S2: I'll do my best with the cliff notes. But when 67 00:03:54,350 --> 00:03:58,340 S2: I was, um, 11. I developed two incredibly rare neurological 68 00:03:58,340 --> 00:04:03,220 S2: condition called transverse myelitis and acute disseminated encephalomyelitis. It's a 69 00:04:03,220 --> 00:04:06,660 S2: bit of a mouthful, but these two conditions are rare 70 00:04:06,660 --> 00:04:09,500 S2: by themselves, let alone it's even more rare to get 71 00:04:09,500 --> 00:04:12,900 S2: them together. And we as a family agreed it was 72 00:04:12,900 --> 00:04:15,500 S2: a blessing in disguise because had I just gotten one 73 00:04:15,500 --> 00:04:19,380 S2: or the other because it went misdiagnosed, it would have been, um, 74 00:04:19,420 --> 00:04:22,020 S2: you know, devastating, even more devastating than what it was. 75 00:04:22,020 --> 00:04:25,619 S2: So basically I went from being this healthy, normal 11 76 00:04:25,620 --> 00:04:28,700 S2: year old to being in a vegetative state within three months. 77 00:04:28,700 --> 00:04:31,659 S2: And so I lost the ability to walk, talk, move function. 78 00:04:31,940 --> 00:04:34,620 S2: And it was misdiagnosed by doctors. So it all could 79 00:04:34,660 --> 00:04:38,900 S2: have been prevented, but they, um, did not handle it properly. 80 00:04:38,900 --> 00:04:42,940 S2: And as a result, my family was given this devastating 81 00:04:42,940 --> 00:04:46,340 S2: diagnosis once they did figure it out, but also no 82 00:04:46,339 --> 00:04:50,460 S2: hope for a positive prognosis, they basically told them to 83 00:04:50,700 --> 00:04:53,820 S2: plan a funeral. And if they don't plan a funeral, then, 84 00:04:53,860 --> 00:04:56,300 S2: you know, accept the fact that the Victoria they once 85 00:04:56,300 --> 00:04:59,020 S2: knew was never coming back. And my family refused to 86 00:04:59,020 --> 00:05:01,420 S2: do that. My mom is a is a warrior mama 87 00:05:01,420 --> 00:05:03,460 S2: of faith, and she just handed it to God, but 88 00:05:03,460 --> 00:05:06,659 S2: then got to work and really brought the hospital to 89 00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:09,659 S2: our living room. And my family, you know, decided that 90 00:05:09,700 --> 00:05:12,780 S2: however long I have left, they're going to, you know, 91 00:05:12,820 --> 00:05:16,220 S2: give me the best, um, best care and just love 92 00:05:16,220 --> 00:05:19,020 S2: and treat me as such. And they didn't realize that 93 00:05:19,020 --> 00:05:21,580 S2: for those four years I was in a vegetative state. 94 00:05:21,820 --> 00:05:25,260 S2: I was completely aware. So I could hear and see everything. 95 00:05:25,260 --> 00:05:28,779 S2: I just couldn't move. And then, um, four years later, 96 00:05:28,779 --> 00:05:31,339 S2: by the grace of God, quite literally, because we have 97 00:05:31,339 --> 00:05:35,659 S2: no medical explanation why I came to, I started blinking 98 00:05:35,660 --> 00:05:37,780 S2: and that's how I let my mom know that I 99 00:05:37,779 --> 00:05:39,860 S2: was in there. I could blink on demand. And then 100 00:05:39,860 --> 00:05:43,820 S2: that kind of started this ripple effect in 2010 of 101 00:05:43,860 --> 00:05:46,419 S2: me making my making my way back into the world 102 00:05:46,420 --> 00:05:49,940 S2: and eventually, you know, walking after ten years and going 103 00:05:49,940 --> 00:05:53,060 S2: back to school and living a life far beyond what I. 104 00:05:53,100 --> 00:05:55,979 S2: What I was, ever I could have ever imagined. But what. 105 00:05:56,020 --> 00:05:58,260 S2: Let alone what the doctors could have ever imagined. 106 00:05:59,260 --> 00:06:03,420 S1: So that must have been. The most difficult thing is 107 00:06:03,420 --> 00:06:05,660 S1: that you could hear what people were saying. You could 108 00:06:05,700 --> 00:06:08,620 S1: hear what the doctors were saying, but you could not 109 00:06:08,620 --> 00:06:12,219 S1: communicate with them. Right? 110 00:06:12,260 --> 00:06:13,900 S3: Yeah, it was wild. 111 00:06:13,940 --> 00:06:16,860 S2: I mean, I think that was, um, honestly, that's just 112 00:06:16,900 --> 00:06:19,540 S2: that's where I discovered my faith because, you know, I 113 00:06:19,540 --> 00:06:21,980 S2: figured if no one else can hear me, maybe this 114 00:06:22,020 --> 00:06:24,860 S2: maybe this, uh, guy that people call God could hear 115 00:06:24,900 --> 00:06:27,140 S2: me too. And, and I think that's, that was a 116 00:06:27,180 --> 00:06:30,340 S2: saving grace for me. But it definitely was frustrating because 117 00:06:30,580 --> 00:06:35,539 S2: you wouldn't believe how the medical field will treat someone 118 00:06:35,820 --> 00:06:38,739 S2: when they don't think you're aware of what's going on. 119 00:06:38,740 --> 00:06:41,420 S2: So I dealt with a lot of a lot of 120 00:06:41,420 --> 00:06:43,860 S2: mistreatment in that way too. So I think that was 121 00:06:43,860 --> 00:06:47,140 S2: more frustrating than, than anything else. And then also, you know, 122 00:06:47,180 --> 00:06:49,980 S2: they keep telling my parents, you know, lost cause or 123 00:06:49,980 --> 00:06:52,170 S2: she's never going to amount to anything, and that was 124 00:06:52,170 --> 00:06:53,330 S2: pretty frustrating too. 125 00:06:54,890 --> 00:06:57,490 S1: I'll bet it was. It was part of the struggle. 126 00:06:57,490 --> 00:07:00,930 S1: Then in the in the whole medical intervention as you're 127 00:07:00,930 --> 00:07:04,890 S1: heading into that. Did did people not believe the symptoms 128 00:07:04,890 --> 00:07:08,210 S1: or believe what was happening on the inside of you? 129 00:07:08,250 --> 00:07:08,810 S3: Yes. 130 00:07:09,410 --> 00:07:12,690 S2: So why I got so sick and why it was 131 00:07:13,090 --> 00:07:15,970 S2: not handled properly as the doctors thought, told my parents 132 00:07:15,970 --> 00:07:18,930 S2: I was doing it for attention because I was a triplet. Now, 133 00:07:18,970 --> 00:07:22,010 S2: because I'm the only girl with three boys. So I 134 00:07:22,050 --> 00:07:25,290 S2: was not shy of getting the attention. Being the only 135 00:07:25,290 --> 00:07:29,730 S2: girl and I, it was a very, you know, horrific 136 00:07:29,770 --> 00:07:32,490 S2: thing what they did because they just kept doubling down 137 00:07:32,490 --> 00:07:33,930 S2: on it was all in my head. It was all 138 00:07:33,970 --> 00:07:37,890 S2: in my head. And they missed a very crucial treatment 139 00:07:37,890 --> 00:07:40,890 S2: window that could have very easily prevented all of this. 140 00:07:40,890 --> 00:07:43,330 S2: And we're talking one of the best children's hospitals in 141 00:07:43,330 --> 00:07:47,210 S2: the world in Boston that completely, you know, passed me 142 00:07:47,210 --> 00:07:51,210 S2: aside and decided that I was crazy when in turn, 143 00:07:51,210 --> 00:07:54,090 S2: there was a devastating neurological condition that had. They just 144 00:07:54,090 --> 00:07:56,970 S2: given me a single round of high dose steroids, I 145 00:07:56,970 --> 00:07:58,330 S2: would have been perfectly fine. 146 00:07:58,850 --> 00:08:02,730 S1: Wow. Oh, and so so in the book, you have 147 00:08:02,730 --> 00:08:05,290 S1: to deal with forgiveness. And we're going to get to that, 148 00:08:05,290 --> 00:08:07,370 S1: but we're not going to get that that too soon. 149 00:08:07,570 --> 00:08:09,290 S1: The first thing I want to say is about you 150 00:08:09,290 --> 00:08:12,690 S1: talk about your mom in the book. Mother's day must 151 00:08:12,690 --> 00:08:15,250 S1: be a really special day for you because your mom 152 00:08:15,250 --> 00:08:17,410 S1: was the fighter for you, wasn't she? 153 00:08:17,450 --> 00:08:18,290 S3: Oh, yeah. Oh. 154 00:08:18,330 --> 00:08:20,210 S2: And she still is. I mean, we had a we 155 00:08:20,210 --> 00:08:23,050 S2: had a lovely day together yesterday. And it's something where 156 00:08:23,050 --> 00:08:25,090 S2: she's just. I mean, she's my best friend, but she's 157 00:08:25,090 --> 00:08:28,450 S2: my hero because I always say, and I say this 158 00:08:28,450 --> 00:08:30,170 S2: a lot in my new book, that you just need 159 00:08:30,170 --> 00:08:32,250 S2: someone that's willing to jump in with you and remind 160 00:08:32,250 --> 00:08:35,330 S2: you that you can swim. And I think my mom 161 00:08:35,370 --> 00:08:38,570 S2: throughout the years just never gave up. And then everyone 162 00:08:38,570 --> 00:08:40,970 S2: in my family followed suit. She's she's a bit like 163 00:08:40,970 --> 00:08:43,610 S2: the captain of our team. And and that has not 164 00:08:43,650 --> 00:08:47,290 S2: wavered in any at any point in this entire 20 165 00:08:47,330 --> 00:08:50,370 S2: year journey we've been on. and she's amazing. And that 166 00:08:50,410 --> 00:08:52,610 S2: looks she found her faith. She's like, I knew of 167 00:08:52,650 --> 00:08:54,730 S2: God before you got sick. And then I got to 168 00:08:54,770 --> 00:08:56,570 S2: know God when you got sick. 169 00:08:57,410 --> 00:09:01,370 S1: The thing that you are really helping people struggle well 170 00:09:01,370 --> 00:09:07,530 S1: with today is the growing mental health crisis among younger adults, 171 00:09:07,970 --> 00:09:12,730 S1: because there is this cultural narrative that, well, the things 172 00:09:12,730 --> 00:09:15,330 S1: some of the things that were said to you even 173 00:09:15,370 --> 00:09:19,890 S1: after you made this miraculous comeback, um, we're kind of like, 174 00:09:19,890 --> 00:09:22,530 S1: come on, snap out of it. You start having panic attacks. 175 00:09:23,170 --> 00:09:26,250 S1: And so I want to go into that with you today, 176 00:09:26,250 --> 00:09:28,170 S1: and we're going to open the phone lines. If you 177 00:09:28,170 --> 00:09:34,410 S1: have a question or comment, (877) 548-3675. Victoria Arlen has written 178 00:09:34,450 --> 00:09:38,810 S1: the view is worth it. Unlocking the beauty in Life's 179 00:09:38,809 --> 00:09:43,370 S1: peaks and valleys. Featured resource. Click through today's information right there. 180 00:09:43,610 --> 00:09:50,240 S1: Chris fabriclive.org. Chris Fabriclive More, with Victoria straight ahead on 181 00:09:50,280 --> 00:10:05,400 S1: Moody Radio. Talking with motivational speaker, TV host, reporter, author, 182 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:10,240 S1: gold medalist, swimmer, philanthropist, author of The View is Worth it. 183 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:16,640 S1: Victoria Arlen, a RLEN. You find out more about her@kris.org. 184 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:21,720 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. Here's what you write. I could smile 185 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,720 S1: on TV while hiding the fact that I was crying 186 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,240 S1: with my knees to my chest, rocking back and forth 187 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:32,600 S1: in the bathroom moments before the speaking engagement. I could 188 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,679 S1: be mid panic attack and hold my hands together on 189 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,040 S1: stage or TV to hide the tremors in my hands, 190 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,200 S1: the shakiness on my feet and my heart racing out 191 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,960 S1: of my chest as if I were running away from 192 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,120 S1: a bear. I mastered the ability to power through and 193 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:54,120 S1: go numb. And this was after this, you know, huge 194 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,760 S1: physical comeback and then making strides and dancing with the 195 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,560 S1: stars and, you know, doing all this stuff. And on 196 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,040 S1: the inside, the people couldn't. People who weren't really, really 197 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,800 S1: close to you, people couldn't see this, could they? 198 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:07,360 S3: Mhm. 199 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,160 S2: No. And I think that was an eye opening experience 200 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,880 S2: in many ways for me. But also it made me 201 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:20,240 S2: realize how many other people are just drowning in plain 202 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,760 S2: sight like I was, and how many people are suffering 203 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,040 S2: yet smiling. And so I think that was a huge 204 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,520 S2: inspiration behind this book is I had so many friends 205 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,280 S2: that started opening up to me. I had so many 206 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,559 S2: people that were almost, you know, you ask someone how 207 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,480 S2: they are once you're going to get a very surface 208 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,040 S2: level answer, you ask it twice, you're probably going to 209 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,630 S2: get a very different answer. And I think navigating all 210 00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:49,190 S2: of that, you know, I was I was wanting to 211 00:11:49,230 --> 00:11:51,590 S2: get help. I was wanting to feel differently in so 212 00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:54,510 S2: many ways. But we're not in a world where it's 213 00:11:54,510 --> 00:11:57,230 S2: a very universal topic to be talking about mental health 214 00:11:57,230 --> 00:12:00,390 S2: or it's a very it's a very daunting topic, I think. 215 00:12:00,429 --> 00:12:04,190 S2: And so I, that was a huge motivation of being 216 00:12:04,230 --> 00:12:07,390 S2: able to start these conversations even before this book was 217 00:12:07,390 --> 00:12:12,230 S2: just realizing, wow, if I'm, if I'm navigating all this 218 00:12:12,270 --> 00:12:14,910 S2: and hiding it so well, are people around me doing 219 00:12:14,910 --> 00:12:17,350 S2: the same thing? And the answer was they were and 220 00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:17,950 S2: still are. 221 00:12:18,870 --> 00:12:21,189 S1: You know what I and I'm further down the trail 222 00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:23,990 S1: than you are, Victoria. And you call yourself tour. You're 223 00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:27,510 S1: a tour guide or Tori, you're a tour guide. What 224 00:12:27,510 --> 00:12:31,030 S1: I find in myself, and especially with some of the 225 00:12:31,030 --> 00:12:34,190 S1: trauma in the past, either capital T or small T 226 00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:39,110 S1: is I catastrophize and I will, I will think of 227 00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:42,070 S1: what is the worst possible outcome. Go for a walk 228 00:12:42,070 --> 00:12:44,350 S1: in the neighborhood and you know, a bear could be. 229 00:12:44,390 --> 00:12:46,670 S1: Or we've got rattlesnakes. We had a rattlesnake in the 230 00:12:46,670 --> 00:12:49,510 S1: backyard last week. It's like, wow, that could happen. You know, 231 00:12:49,590 --> 00:12:51,870 S1: you know how much money that costs these days to 232 00:12:51,910 --> 00:12:54,390 S1: get a rattlesnake venom and all that kind of stuff. 233 00:12:54,510 --> 00:12:58,190 S1: I just, I go to the worst case scenario and 234 00:12:58,190 --> 00:13:01,630 S1: in a strange way that comforts me because, well, at 235 00:13:01,630 --> 00:13:05,750 S1: least that didn't that didn't happen on the walk, you know, um, 236 00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:09,710 S1: did the, what did the trauma do to you? Um, 237 00:13:10,030 --> 00:13:13,670 S1: even now that it has it lingered in your, in 238 00:13:13,710 --> 00:13:14,550 S1: your mind? 239 00:13:15,429 --> 00:13:18,550 S2: I mean, I think trauma is a very tricky thing. 240 00:13:18,550 --> 00:13:22,870 S2: And I really wanted to define it in this book 241 00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:25,670 S2: because a lot of my friends think, well, it's not 242 00:13:25,670 --> 00:13:27,510 S2: that big of a deal. It's not that bad. Well, 243 00:13:27,550 --> 00:13:30,550 S2: trauma is trauma and it has a hold on you 244 00:13:30,590 --> 00:13:31,950 S2: one way or the other. And how it had a 245 00:13:31,950 --> 00:13:36,270 S2: held a hold on me was I just didn't think 246 00:13:36,270 --> 00:13:38,470 S2: I could feel what I was feeling. You know, we 247 00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:41,589 S2: weren't talking about anxiety or depression. And so I had 248 00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:45,270 S2: this this hamster wheel that I was stuck on of 249 00:13:45,309 --> 00:13:47,990 S2: having to prove people wrong or prove the doctors wrong, 250 00:13:48,030 --> 00:13:50,350 S2: or prove that I was a functioning member of society. 251 00:13:50,350 --> 00:13:53,870 S2: But at the same time, with the different abuse I 252 00:13:53,870 --> 00:13:56,829 S2: faced as a kid at the hands of nurses and doctors, 253 00:13:56,830 --> 00:14:00,150 S2: I think there was just this level of guard that 254 00:14:00,150 --> 00:14:02,949 S2: I had up, and so I couldn't sit still and 255 00:14:02,950 --> 00:14:05,670 S2: be quiet, because if I did, then that's where the 256 00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:08,110 S2: anxiety creeped in and that's where I'm not enough creeped 257 00:14:08,110 --> 00:14:10,270 S2: in or I shouldn't be here creeped in. And so 258 00:14:10,309 --> 00:14:12,590 S2: I think it, it held on to this idea of, 259 00:14:12,630 --> 00:14:15,150 S2: you know, I had planned to die when I was 260 00:14:15,150 --> 00:14:18,150 S2: really sick. I hadn't really planned. How do I live 261 00:14:18,390 --> 00:14:23,150 S2: a normal life after going through such abnormal things and 262 00:14:23,150 --> 00:14:26,070 S2: surviving what no one else had survived. And so I 263 00:14:26,070 --> 00:14:29,110 S2: think it held in a way of I almost anesthetized 264 00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:32,910 S2: my pain and my trauma through success and accomplishments because 265 00:14:32,910 --> 00:14:35,110 S2: I thought, you know, then I could hide it a 266 00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:38,430 S2: bit more and people could see past what I was, 267 00:14:38,430 --> 00:14:40,390 S2: what I was really feeling. But it manifested in a 268 00:14:40,390 --> 00:14:42,940 S2: lot of different ways and mostly anxiety and depression, and 269 00:14:42,980 --> 00:14:44,460 S2: then in turn, panic. 270 00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:48,300 S1: Yes. So so you felt like if I if I 271 00:14:48,300 --> 00:14:53,740 S1: could just stay in motion, I can outrun the battle inside, right? 272 00:14:53,940 --> 00:14:55,060 S3: Mhm. Mhm. 273 00:14:55,100 --> 00:14:58,140 S2: And I think the catastrophizing that you talk about, I 274 00:14:58,140 --> 00:15:01,260 S2: did the same thing and I would, I just constantly 275 00:15:01,260 --> 00:15:05,060 S2: was bracing for a punch. Right. And bracing for something 276 00:15:05,060 --> 00:15:07,100 S2: because then I could handle it and I could. There's 277 00:15:07,100 --> 00:15:10,060 S2: a lot I couldn't control or handle before. And over 278 00:15:10,060 --> 00:15:13,500 S2: time and through a lot of therapy, realizing you're just 279 00:15:13,500 --> 00:15:17,620 S2: hurting yourself more by planning for the worst, it's okay 280 00:15:17,620 --> 00:15:21,420 S2: to maybe think about it briefly, but also then counter 281 00:15:21,420 --> 00:15:24,980 S2: that thought with, okay, maybe something bad will happen, maybe 282 00:15:24,980 --> 00:15:28,340 S2: something good will happen. But either way, when that time comes, 283 00:15:28,500 --> 00:15:30,420 S2: I can handle it. I'll figure it out. And so 284 00:15:30,420 --> 00:15:33,700 S2: it kind of cancels that panic loop that I had 285 00:15:34,020 --> 00:15:36,860 S2: very much strapped on my seatbelt and was riding that 286 00:15:37,180 --> 00:15:39,940 S2: roller coaster of, of panic for a very long time, 287 00:15:39,940 --> 00:15:43,100 S2: and I think I learned that the quiet's not a 288 00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:46,620 S2: bad thing. The quiet doesn't equate. Something bad will happen, 289 00:15:46,620 --> 00:15:48,380 S2: which is a big thing that I had to really 290 00:15:48,380 --> 00:15:50,540 S2: work through and I think a lot of people do. 291 00:15:51,620 --> 00:15:53,940 S1: I wrote a question down and then I, and I 292 00:15:53,980 --> 00:15:56,180 S1: deleted it because I thought, I don't know how to 293 00:15:56,180 --> 00:15:58,380 S1: ask this without it coming out wrong, but I'm going 294 00:15:58,420 --> 00:16:01,820 S1: to try it anyway, even though I deleted it. And 295 00:16:01,820 --> 00:16:08,420 S1: the question is the panic, the depression, the inner struggle, 296 00:16:08,420 --> 00:16:13,540 S1: was there any part of that that was more comfortable 297 00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:19,340 S1: to to invite in rather than, you know, the quiet 298 00:16:19,380 --> 00:16:22,780 S1: rather than the silence? Did you did you get did 299 00:16:22,780 --> 00:16:26,220 S1: that give you something at least to hang on to 300 00:16:26,260 --> 00:16:31,140 S1: that you've got this feeling that's, uh, circling inside, but 301 00:16:31,140 --> 00:16:33,700 S1: at least it's there and you're feeling something. Does that 302 00:16:33,700 --> 00:16:34,340 S1: make sense? 303 00:16:34,980 --> 00:16:36,020 S3: Oh, it does make sense. 304 00:16:36,060 --> 00:16:38,500 S2: I know exactly where you're going with this? I think 305 00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:43,500 S2: for me, I knew pain, I didn't know peace. So 306 00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:47,420 S2: even if something is not good for you or like pain, 307 00:16:47,740 --> 00:16:51,540 S2: our bodies on a subconscious level know, well, this is 308 00:16:51,540 --> 00:16:54,460 S2: what I've always this is what I've known most. So 309 00:16:54,460 --> 00:16:57,060 S2: we're going to stay in this in this valley, if 310 00:16:57,060 --> 00:16:59,580 S2: you will. We don't you know, that whole peace thing 311 00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:02,380 S2: that's that's something that we we don't know what that's 312 00:17:02,380 --> 00:17:04,540 S2: going to feel like. And that might be a change 313 00:17:04,540 --> 00:17:07,500 S2: and uncomfortable. So I think that in a, in a 314 00:17:07,540 --> 00:17:09,780 S2: way was just what I was used to. I was 315 00:17:09,780 --> 00:17:12,740 S2: used to being in that fight flight mode. And I 316 00:17:12,780 --> 00:17:15,219 S2: didn't really know how to turn that off. And it 317 00:17:15,220 --> 00:17:20,100 S2: wasn't really until I started therapy and mindfulness tools that 318 00:17:20,100 --> 00:17:23,460 S2: I realized, oh, actually, that's not a normal, a normal 319 00:17:23,460 --> 00:17:26,500 S2: place you should be, you know, highly functioning in. And 320 00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:29,700 S2: so I think those also caused me to be just 321 00:17:29,700 --> 00:17:32,740 S2: very numb. So as much as I was panicking and sad, 322 00:17:32,740 --> 00:17:35,660 S2: I just didn't feel anything. And I figured if if 323 00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:38,650 S2: going for peace meant having to feel all the things 324 00:17:38,650 --> 00:17:40,930 S2: I don't really want. I'm too afraid to do that. 325 00:17:40,930 --> 00:17:44,370 S2: So I think in a strange way, we are so 326 00:17:44,410 --> 00:17:47,730 S2: used to discomfort that it actually just kind of becomes 327 00:17:47,730 --> 00:17:50,250 S2: that that stinky old shoe that you're like, well, but 328 00:17:50,250 --> 00:17:51,850 S2: I just know how the shoe is and I don't 329 00:17:51,850 --> 00:17:53,690 S2: want to break in a new shoe. 330 00:17:54,609 --> 00:17:58,169 S1: Yes. Or as my wife will say, the shirts that 331 00:17:58,770 --> 00:18:01,970 S1: the holy shirts that I have is like, these are comfortable. 332 00:18:02,010 --> 00:18:03,770 S4: Yeah. Yes, exactly. 333 00:18:03,770 --> 00:18:05,570 S2: And you're like, yeah, but it's not, it's not doing 334 00:18:05,570 --> 00:18:07,530 S2: its job anymore. But you're like, yeah, but I don't 335 00:18:07,530 --> 00:18:09,570 S2: really want to get a new shirt or a new shoe. 336 00:18:10,010 --> 00:18:13,369 S1: Yes. And it's a lot more complex than that. But that's, 337 00:18:13,369 --> 00:18:15,450 S1: that's the metaphor. And it's the same thing that you 338 00:18:15,450 --> 00:18:18,530 S1: talked about that I read a little earlier, being on 339 00:18:18,530 --> 00:18:21,730 S1: the boat with all these people around and you've fallen overboard, 340 00:18:21,730 --> 00:18:25,330 S1: but there's nobody who sees you and you're, you're still 341 00:18:25,330 --> 00:18:29,770 S1: there and it's, you're trapped in the hospital bed and 342 00:18:29,770 --> 00:18:32,729 S1: there are people around and they're looking, probing and looking 343 00:18:32,730 --> 00:18:35,890 S1: at you, but they don't see you. And that's how 344 00:18:35,890 --> 00:18:40,090 S1: somebody probably feels who's listening today. That led you to 345 00:18:40,130 --> 00:18:43,450 S1: the place you call rock bottom ville. Tell me about. 346 00:18:43,450 --> 00:18:45,290 S3: That. Yeah. 347 00:18:45,330 --> 00:18:47,970 S2: I mean, it was it was getting to a point 348 00:18:47,970 --> 00:18:50,369 S2: where it was just it was so bad and I 349 00:18:50,369 --> 00:18:52,930 S2: was so numb and it didn't matter what I was 350 00:18:52,930 --> 00:18:56,170 S2: achieving or what I had, it wasn't helping. And I 351 00:18:56,210 --> 00:19:01,210 S2: think it got it got pretty dark and complicated for me. 352 00:19:01,250 --> 00:19:04,330 S2: And I remember at one point texting my mom and saying, 353 00:19:04,369 --> 00:19:06,810 S2: you know, it was easier being in a vegetative state 354 00:19:06,810 --> 00:19:10,050 S2: than it is getting up every day and having to 355 00:19:10,170 --> 00:19:13,369 S2: live in this, you know, prison cell that I felt 356 00:19:13,369 --> 00:19:15,489 S2: I was in. And it kind of all came to 357 00:19:15,530 --> 00:19:19,050 S2: a head in July of 2021. I had been up 358 00:19:19,050 --> 00:19:21,410 S2: most of the night, just gotten back from a trip, 359 00:19:21,410 --> 00:19:24,090 S2: and I was really just in a bad way. And 360 00:19:24,090 --> 00:19:27,770 S2: I tried to take my own life, and I had 361 00:19:27,770 --> 00:19:30,530 S2: called to leave a message to my mom just to 362 00:19:30,570 --> 00:19:33,919 S2: say goodbye because I, I couldn't write, my hands were 363 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,720 S2: too shaky and I didn't. I didn't want to talk 364 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,359 S2: to anyone. I just wanted to leave a message to 365 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,360 S2: let her know it wasn't her fault because we had 366 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,920 S2: been through so much, but I just I couldn't do 367 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,399 S2: it anymore. And on like the second to last ring, 368 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,600 S2: she picked up the phone and it was like 302 369 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,800 S2: in the morning and she picked up the phone. She 370 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,719 S2: happened to be awake, which we don't believe was a 371 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,639 S2: coincidence by any means. And, um, she picked up the 372 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,720 S2: phone and, and in that moment, I didn't have any, 373 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,720 S2: you know, any smile to hide behind or any. I'm 374 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:04,359 S2: fine to hide behind. I just said, I can't do 375 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,240 S2: this anymore. I really can't do this anymore. And I just, 376 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,120 S2: I need, I need to be free from this. And 377 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,240 S2: in that moment and that night in particular, she just 378 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,520 S2: met me where I was, where she could have not 379 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,560 S2: picked up the phone. She could have panicked. She could 380 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,240 S2: have tried to say, you know, the, the, that term 381 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,800 S2: that drives everyone nuts. You have so much to be 382 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,040 S2: happy for. You have so much to be grateful for. 383 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,840 S2: And that can be true, but it doesn't negate your 384 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,919 S2: mental health struggles that it really. Mental health doesn't. Look 385 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,280 S2: at your resume or look at the house you live 386 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,280 S2: in and say, oh, we're going to leave this one alone. 387 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,840 S2: And so she essentially that night just jumped in the 388 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,400 S2: water with me and saw me and stayed with me 389 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,840 S2: till the sun came up on her phone. Then on 390 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,080 S2: the phone and then, um, and then drove down to 391 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,160 S2: be with me. And she lived about three hours away 392 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,720 S2: and we just made a plan. And, you know, she said, 393 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:54,679 S2: if you keep talking to me, we're going to let's 394 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,080 S2: figure this out. And we did. And that's where I 395 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,240 S2: finally said, you know, I'm not okay. And she said, 396 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,840 S2: and that's okay. And I thought that was a groundbreaking 397 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,560 S2: sentence and it's not. But for someone and for a 398 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,320 S2: lot of us, you know, we're told you just have 399 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,320 S2: to be okay. Everything's fine. And even when it's not fine, 400 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,240 S2: you know, being able to accept that and then create 401 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:14,640 S2: a game plan to get help. 402 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,480 S1: Thank God for your mom, you know, and that she 403 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,560 S1: picked up and or you wouldn't be speaking to us 404 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:22,240 S1: here today. 405 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:23,600 S3: I wouldn't be here. No. 406 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,560 S1: The other thing that I find really interesting about that, 407 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,560 S1: because this was the summer of 21, I was going 408 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,560 S1: to ask you what Covid did. Well, basically Covid ripped 409 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,240 S1: the rug out from under you of of running and 410 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,560 S1: traveling and speaking and doing all those things. You, you 411 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,760 S1: had to be quiet. You had to be there by yourself, 412 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:45,320 S1: didn't you? 413 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:46,600 S3: Mhm. Yeah. 414 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,560 S2: I had to just, you know, deal with things not 415 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,280 S2: being go go, go. I had to be home for 416 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,840 S2: more than a day. I had to, you know, essentially 417 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:02,000 S2: pivot and be able to, you know, navigate unknown waters 418 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,200 S2: as we all did. But for someone who literally was, 419 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,000 S2: was holding on by a thread prior to that and, 420 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,639 S2: and needing to be on the go and on the 421 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,040 S2: move so no one could actually see what was going on. 422 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,439 S2: That was, that was very challenging. And I think it, 423 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,200 S2: it stirred up a lot of my own trauma of 424 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,600 S2: the unknown and of bad things happening. And the whole 425 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,400 S2: world was on high panic. So I feel like that, 426 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,320 S2: combined with what most of us were feeling mixed in with, 427 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,389 S2: with my history was just the perfect. It was the 428 00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:31,270 S2: perfect storm. 429 00:22:31,710 --> 00:22:36,230 S1: Yeah. And you say I found it really interesting. I 430 00:22:36,230 --> 00:22:39,430 S1: thought more about why I didn't die than about why 431 00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:44,590 S1: I survived. Meaning all those physical difficulties in the four 432 00:22:44,750 --> 00:22:48,310 S1: years that you spent in a vegetative state. You thought 433 00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:50,949 S1: more about why you didn't die rather than why you 434 00:22:50,990 --> 00:22:51,950 S1: had survived. 435 00:22:52,670 --> 00:22:53,070 S3: Yeah. 436 00:22:53,109 --> 00:22:55,670 S2: And I just I kept wanting to give my miracle 437 00:22:55,670 --> 00:22:58,950 S2: to someone else. And I had struggled with survivor's guilt 438 00:22:59,270 --> 00:23:02,430 S2: for several years. And it really it got better when 439 00:23:02,430 --> 00:23:04,790 S2: I had started my foundation with my mom, so we 440 00:23:04,790 --> 00:23:08,990 S2: could actually help people. But I still thought a lot 441 00:23:08,990 --> 00:23:12,710 S2: of those, um, you know, victim voice thoughts of, um, 442 00:23:12,790 --> 00:23:15,270 S2: of just, you know, why did I survive this? I 443 00:23:15,270 --> 00:23:18,230 S2: don't even, I don't belong here. And I think when 444 00:23:18,270 --> 00:23:22,510 S2: you're struggling mentally, you don't feel like you belong, you 445 00:23:22,510 --> 00:23:24,710 S2: don't feel like you deserve to be here. And I 446 00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:29,030 S2: think that combined with everything else, just made it really 447 00:23:29,030 --> 00:23:31,470 S2: hard to keep going because then I felt like I 448 00:23:31,470 --> 00:23:34,590 S2: couldn't tell anyone I was struggling because I didn't want 449 00:23:34,630 --> 00:23:37,630 S2: to let anyone down. I was this, you know, beacon 450 00:23:37,670 --> 00:23:40,550 S2: of hope for people, but I was hopeless. So how 451 00:23:40,910 --> 00:23:43,870 S2: how was I going to, you know, pop that bubble 452 00:23:43,869 --> 00:23:47,430 S2: for people? And I think there was this, this, this 453 00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:49,870 S2: constant message. If I had a penny for every time 454 00:23:49,869 --> 00:23:52,030 S2: someone said this to me, you must never have a 455 00:23:52,030 --> 00:23:54,590 S2: bad day. And you have so much you know, you've 456 00:23:54,590 --> 00:23:56,470 S2: overcome and all this stuff. And I'm like, yeah, but 457 00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:59,230 S2: no one, no one gives a manual for this miracle. 458 00:23:59,270 --> 00:24:02,630 S2: You know, no one. So I was, I was 15 459 00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:06,149 S2: coming back into the world that had very much changed. 460 00:24:06,150 --> 00:24:09,750 S2: And then also having to just put on a smile 461 00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:12,630 S2: and pretend like nothing had ever happened or it didn't, 462 00:24:12,670 --> 00:24:15,230 S2: it wasn't as bad as it appeared to be. And 463 00:24:15,230 --> 00:24:19,190 S2: I think I had this groundbreaking moment in therapy where 464 00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:21,989 S2: my therapist was like, when I say fame or the 465 00:24:21,990 --> 00:24:24,310 S2: public eye, what comes to mind? And I and I 466 00:24:24,430 --> 00:24:27,670 S2: blurt it out without even thinking my trauma being glorified, 467 00:24:27,670 --> 00:24:30,510 S2: and I'm having to sit there and just smile as 468 00:24:30,510 --> 00:24:33,150 S2: if I hadn't been completely wrecked by it. 469 00:24:33,670 --> 00:24:38,270 S1: Wow. Wow. What a moment. Because you say, you say 470 00:24:38,270 --> 00:24:41,550 S1: in the book that when you when your therapy was suggested, 471 00:24:41,550 --> 00:24:43,070 S1: it was like, yeah, I don't want to do that. 472 00:24:43,070 --> 00:24:44,750 S1: It was a little scary to you. 473 00:24:44,869 --> 00:24:45,429 S4: Yeah. 474 00:24:45,630 --> 00:24:48,350 S1: Look where. Look where it brought you. And I think 475 00:24:48,350 --> 00:24:50,990 S1: that's one of the reasons why this book is going 476 00:24:51,030 --> 00:24:54,669 S1: to make a big difference in people's lives, whether you're 477 00:24:54,670 --> 00:24:59,950 S1: my age or middle age or younger. Uh, it's titled 478 00:24:59,950 --> 00:25:03,270 S1: The View is Worth It. Unlocking the Beauty in Life's 479 00:25:03,270 --> 00:25:07,870 S1: Peaks and Valleys. It's written by Victoria Arlen, and it's 480 00:25:07,869 --> 00:25:13,350 S1: our featured resource at Chris fabry.org. Uh, Victoria just mentioned 481 00:25:13,390 --> 00:25:15,910 S1: a little bit of where I want to go next, 482 00:25:15,910 --> 00:25:20,629 S1: and that is this victim mentality and the victory mentality. 483 00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:23,430 S1: I'm going to have her explain that to you. And 484 00:25:23,430 --> 00:25:26,140 S1: if you have a question or a comment or you're 485 00:25:26,140 --> 00:25:28,659 S1: sitting there and you're staring at the radio and you're saying, 486 00:25:28,660 --> 00:25:31,340 S1: this is exactly what I'm feeling right now. I feel 487 00:25:31,340 --> 00:25:35,500 S1: like I've fallen overboard and nobody sees, but it's all 488 00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:43,820 S1: on the inside. Here's the number (877) 548-3675. Chris fabriclive.org is 489 00:25:43,820 --> 00:25:49,380 S1: the website. Chris fabriclive.org. More with Victoria straight ahead on 490 00:25:49,420 --> 00:26:08,060 S1: Moody Radio. There is power and vulnerability. I am convinced 491 00:26:08,060 --> 00:26:10,820 S1: of it. And when you've got somebody who's willing to 492 00:26:10,820 --> 00:26:14,860 S1: be honest and truthful with you in front of you, 493 00:26:15,500 --> 00:26:18,420 S1: to be able to not just say, oh, don't feel 494 00:26:18,420 --> 00:26:20,859 S1: that way, or why don't you snap out of it? 495 00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:23,500 S1: I mean, that was said to our guest today. Just 496 00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:25,700 S1: come on. When are you going to snap out of it? 497 00:26:25,980 --> 00:26:29,219 S1: Or something that was said to her? Or feelings are 498 00:26:29,220 --> 00:26:33,459 S1: not facts which are true, but when you're going through 499 00:26:33,460 --> 00:26:36,780 S1: all of this internal struggle to say that is just 500 00:26:36,780 --> 00:26:41,580 S1: such a devastating thing to the person who's going through it. 501 00:26:41,740 --> 00:26:45,620 S1: So I think this is because of her vulnerability. Victoria 502 00:26:45,619 --> 00:26:48,460 S1: Arlen's book is going to be a game changer for 503 00:26:48,460 --> 00:26:50,780 S1: some people out there. It's titled The View Is Worth 504 00:26:50,780 --> 00:26:54,700 S1: It unlocking the Beauty and life's Peaks and valleys. We've 505 00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:59,500 S1: got it linked at Chris Fabry live.org. Chris Fabriclive dot ORG. 506 00:26:59,940 --> 00:27:01,580 S1: One of the things I said to you in the 507 00:27:01,580 --> 00:27:06,020 S1: break was that the enemy loves to isolate, and if 508 00:27:06,020 --> 00:27:08,980 S1: he can get you to not share what is really 509 00:27:08,980 --> 00:27:12,340 S1: going on inside of you, and to just pretend and 510 00:27:12,340 --> 00:27:15,699 S1: play act while. And not that it wasn't real, the 511 00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:18,060 S1: things that you were saying. But if he can get 512 00:27:18,060 --> 00:27:20,980 S1: you to hold that in, he's won a victory, hasn't he? 513 00:27:21,700 --> 00:27:22,740 S3: Oh, he absolutely has. 514 00:27:22,850 --> 00:27:27,050 S2: And I think he works in very sneaky ways where the, 515 00:27:27,210 --> 00:27:30,570 S2: you know, there's people that you think are there for 516 00:27:30,570 --> 00:27:32,250 S2: you or you think will be there for you and 517 00:27:32,250 --> 00:27:35,610 S2: actually make it worse and actually isolate you more. And 518 00:27:35,609 --> 00:27:39,170 S2: I think there's a, it becomes just this vicious cycle. 519 00:27:39,170 --> 00:27:41,130 S2: I used to describe it kind of like a, like 520 00:27:41,170 --> 00:27:44,050 S2: a tornado where it just keeps getting stronger and stronger. 521 00:27:44,050 --> 00:27:48,129 S2: And then you just keep hearing that defeating voice louder. 522 00:27:48,130 --> 00:27:50,970 S2: And you, you start to believe it because you're so 523 00:27:51,010 --> 00:27:55,250 S2: tired and you really, it is almost adding that gasoline 524 00:27:55,290 --> 00:27:56,129 S2: on that fire. 525 00:27:56,650 --> 00:27:57,090 S4: Yeah. 526 00:27:57,650 --> 00:28:00,850 S1: You used so many great word pictures and some of 527 00:28:00,890 --> 00:28:03,010 S1: a lot of them are of water. A lot of 528 00:28:03,010 --> 00:28:04,929 S1: them are of, you know, you've been in the water 529 00:28:04,930 --> 00:28:07,570 S1: for so long of doing the swimming and winning medals 530 00:28:07,570 --> 00:28:10,850 S1: and all that, that, that just, it just kind of 531 00:28:10,890 --> 00:28:13,970 S1: pops up. I want you to talk about rock bottom 532 00:28:13,970 --> 00:28:18,290 S1: ville and the victim and victory mentality. Can you explain that? 533 00:28:19,090 --> 00:28:19,689 S3: Absolutely. 534 00:28:19,770 --> 00:28:23,010 S2: I mean, rock bottom ville, I think with this, the 535 00:28:23,010 --> 00:28:26,490 S2: whole style of this book, Chris was really. I wanted 536 00:28:26,490 --> 00:28:30,850 S2: to have it be approachable because we're obviously talking about 537 00:28:30,850 --> 00:28:34,250 S2: a lot of heavy things and things that are maybe 538 00:28:34,290 --> 00:28:37,010 S2: new for people who are actually coming to acceptance of 539 00:28:37,010 --> 00:28:40,690 S2: what they're dealing with. So the nature elements and the, 540 00:28:40,850 --> 00:28:43,090 S2: you know, instead of just saying rock bottom, rock bottom 541 00:28:43,410 --> 00:28:45,210 S2: of a, of a place, you check in and it's 542 00:28:45,210 --> 00:28:47,210 S2: really hard to check out. It's really just that low 543 00:28:47,250 --> 00:28:50,610 S2: moment for you and for me. There were several rock 544 00:28:50,610 --> 00:28:53,490 S2: bottom moments. I checked in several times, but I think 545 00:28:53,490 --> 00:28:57,010 S2: the big one was really that summer of 2021 where 546 00:28:57,010 --> 00:29:00,850 S2: I was really struggling. And I think I discovered that, 547 00:29:00,890 --> 00:29:02,850 S2: you know, there is a victim voice and there is 548 00:29:02,850 --> 00:29:05,130 S2: a victory voice when we're struggling and a victim voice 549 00:29:05,130 --> 00:29:09,490 S2: is something is that voice that's saying it's impossible. You should. 550 00:29:09,530 --> 00:29:12,210 S2: You're too scared. You don't even try. You're not going 551 00:29:12,250 --> 00:29:14,610 S2: to make it and just give up. And what's the point? 552 00:29:14,610 --> 00:29:18,290 S2: And jump. And it's really those defeating words that are 553 00:29:18,410 --> 00:29:21,730 S2: almost pulling you deeper down versus that victory voice is 554 00:29:21,730 --> 00:29:24,730 S2: a little quieter, I have learned, and that's one where 555 00:29:24,730 --> 00:29:27,010 S2: it's reminding you that you've got this and to believe 556 00:29:27,010 --> 00:29:29,690 S2: in yourself, and that there's a beautiful life on the 557 00:29:29,690 --> 00:29:32,250 S2: other side of this or that. The storm doesn't last forever. 558 00:29:32,250 --> 00:29:36,610 S2: And I think those two clash with each other. And 559 00:29:36,650 --> 00:29:39,290 S2: I learned very quickly, I was listening to the victim 560 00:29:39,290 --> 00:29:41,370 S2: voice for a very long time, and I was also 561 00:29:41,370 --> 00:29:46,250 S2: letting certain people in my life around me almost amplify 562 00:29:46,250 --> 00:29:48,770 S2: that victim voice and not hear me and not, you know, 563 00:29:48,810 --> 00:29:52,530 S2: put hope and, and love into this journey. And so 564 00:29:52,570 --> 00:29:54,650 S2: I think it can show up in a lot of 565 00:29:54,650 --> 00:29:57,850 S2: different ways. But to summarize it, a victim voice is 566 00:29:57,850 --> 00:30:00,130 S2: going to try you to tell you all the reasons 567 00:30:00,130 --> 00:30:02,530 S2: that you can't climb and you can't get out of 568 00:30:02,530 --> 00:30:04,890 S2: this while the victory voice is going to give you 569 00:30:04,890 --> 00:30:07,570 S2: all the reasons to keep climbing and remind you what 570 00:30:07,570 --> 00:30:08,530 S2: you're capable of. 571 00:30:09,090 --> 00:30:12,810 S1: What did the victim voice tell you when you started 572 00:30:12,810 --> 00:30:13,970 S1: to write this book? 573 00:30:14,930 --> 00:30:15,250 S3: Oh. 574 00:30:16,050 --> 00:30:19,280 S2: I struggled. I mean, I, I was writing this book 575 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,800 S2: during a very stormy time in my life, and I 576 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:28,400 S2: kept doubting. I kept finding myself thinking that it wasn't 577 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,160 S2: going to turn into anything, that I shouldn't be doing this, 578 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,120 S2: that I'm still struggling. And that's why, you know, in 579 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,720 S2: this book I say, look, it isn't a destination. It's 580 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,280 S2: a continual journey of climbing and hitting peaks and valleys. 581 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,880 S2: But during this book in particular, I really questioned myself 582 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,560 S2: and questioned if, if anyone would be, if anyone would be, 583 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,000 S2: you know, impacted by this in a good way. And 584 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,959 S2: then I remember, um, one of my, one of my 585 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,000 S2: dear friends was like, but this isn't about you. This 586 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,160 S2: book you're writing for someone else who like you is 587 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,280 S2: struggling is in the water and no one's jumping in 588 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,600 S2: to help them. And so when I kind of put it, 589 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,120 S2: spun it that way, I really started to essentially tell 590 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,360 S2: the victim voice to please leave and never come back. 591 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,920 S1: Because the victim voice will tell you, don't write this. 592 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,480 S1: People are going to judge you. You're not a psychologist. 593 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,360 S1: You're not a therapist. You don't have a degree. Who 594 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,360 S1: do you think you are? You can't go on a 595 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,360 S1: radio program and talk about this. People will call in 596 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,080 S1: and ask you, you know, all of that kind of stuff, right? 597 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:32,200 S3: Yeah. 598 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,400 S2: It was just that imposter syndrome. And then I remember, um, 599 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,600 S2: I remember sitting down and just saying to my editor, 600 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,160 S2: I know I'm not a, I'm not an expert in 601 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,440 S2: mental health. That's why I refer to myself as the 602 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,440 S2: tour guide. But I am an expert in mental breakdowns 603 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,959 S2: and I am an expert in having my whole life 604 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,440 S2: implode and everything falling apart and being literally kicked down 605 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,800 S2: more times than I can count. So I was like, 606 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,840 S2: that's where my, you know, my experience is. And I 607 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,840 S2: was like, if anything, it's just reminding people they can 608 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,040 S2: get back up. And that was, you know, I can 609 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,160 S2: give the knowledge and the tools that helped me, but 610 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,400 S2: really it's take what you need and, and leave what 611 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,400 S2: you don't or pass it on to someone else. 612 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,720 S1: So you had a plan to get rid of the pain. 613 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,720 S1: You couldn't do this any longer. You had a plan 614 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,640 S1: to end your life, and your mom basically was there 615 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,160 S1: until morning and then drove and saw you and you 616 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,240 S1: started to to believe, well, wait a minute. Maybe there 617 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,280 S1: is a different way to live. Because in that state 618 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,440 S1: where you were with the depression, the anxiety, the panic 619 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,440 S1: attacks and all of that, life was not there was 620 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,040 S1: no color in it. That's one way that you described it, right? 621 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:47,400 S3: Yeah. It was just. 622 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,440 S2: Black and white, and it was really just the shades. 623 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,360 S2: I always said it was like cloudy or the shades 624 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,320 S2: were closed. And I couldn't seem to, to see the 625 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,960 S2: sun or see the shades be pulled back. And I 626 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,480 S2: think it's really hard to picture a world where that's 627 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,239 S2: not the case. And that's where when I hit that 628 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,960 S2: breaking point, I just couldn't take it anymore. And I 629 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,760 S2: think you want so badly to see the sunshine. You 630 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,720 S2: want so badly for the color to return, but it's 631 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,150 S2: just not happening. And I think my mom intervening the 632 00:33:17,150 --> 00:33:20,550 S2: way she did and, and just how she showed up 633 00:33:20,550 --> 00:33:24,190 S2: and so many people showed up. I slowly but surely 634 00:33:24,550 --> 00:33:28,550 S2: started to see the color return and the sun shine 635 00:33:28,550 --> 00:33:30,470 S2: just a little bit brighter and a little bit brighter. 636 00:33:30,470 --> 00:33:34,350 S2: And I think just trusting that, okay, we've hit rock 637 00:33:34,350 --> 00:33:37,630 S2: bottom here. The, the one thing I can at least 638 00:33:37,630 --> 00:33:39,750 S2: try to do is try to put one foot in 639 00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:42,910 S2: front of the other and see, see where this where 640 00:33:42,910 --> 00:33:43,950 S2: this could take me. 641 00:33:44,110 --> 00:33:48,670 S1: Yes. Because the, you know, the doctors, she's making this up. 642 00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:52,190 S1: She's doing this for attention. ET cetera. ET cetera. You 643 00:33:52,190 --> 00:33:55,830 S1: could take this that strength of. No, that's not true. 644 00:33:55,830 --> 00:33:58,709 S1: I'm going to show you. But that just gets you 645 00:33:58,710 --> 00:34:01,830 S1: back on the treadmill again. And to prove yourself. And 646 00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:05,710 S1: that doesn't really lead to to wholeness. So you had 647 00:34:05,710 --> 00:34:08,590 S1: a plan to end things. What was the first step 648 00:34:08,590 --> 00:34:11,350 S1: in the plan to start climbing again? 649 00:34:12,350 --> 00:34:12,910 S3: I think it was. 650 00:34:12,989 --> 00:34:18,030 S2: Admitting that I was not okay and admitting that I 651 00:34:18,030 --> 00:34:21,870 S2: needed help. And I think asking for help is very 652 00:34:21,870 --> 00:34:24,310 S2: hard for a lot of us. And I think it was. 653 00:34:24,350 --> 00:34:26,310 S2: It's extra hard when you've gone through a bunch of 654 00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:28,950 S2: stuff and you're trying to just make it on your own, 655 00:34:28,989 --> 00:34:31,790 S2: do things on your own. And there was a perception 656 00:34:31,790 --> 00:34:34,390 S2: of who I was to the outside world. And so 657 00:34:34,390 --> 00:34:40,670 S2: I felt shame in saying, I, I'm really struggling. And, um, 658 00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:43,510 S2: that was really the start for me was just saying 659 00:34:43,510 --> 00:34:46,350 S2: I'm not okay and I need help or I'm not 660 00:34:46,350 --> 00:34:49,029 S2: going to be around much longer and then being met 661 00:34:49,030 --> 00:34:51,870 S2: with my mum saying, that's okay, it's okay to not 662 00:34:51,870 --> 00:34:54,430 S2: be okay. Let's figure this out. Let's make a plan. 663 00:34:54,430 --> 00:34:58,589 S2: Let's actually let's get you help. Let's get you. You know, 664 00:34:58,630 --> 00:35:01,630 S2: peace is the thing that that can that can come 665 00:35:01,630 --> 00:35:04,509 S2: in time and therapy and all of that. So I 666 00:35:04,510 --> 00:35:08,549 S2: think it was really asking for help, but then allowing 667 00:35:08,550 --> 00:35:11,070 S2: myself to get help and to receive help. 668 00:35:12,580 --> 00:35:16,299 S1: And that's going to speak into somebody's life today. If 669 00:35:16,340 --> 00:35:19,460 S1: you're listening and you're saying, I'm identifying with what Victoria 670 00:35:19,500 --> 00:35:21,980 S1: went through, it didn't go through four years in a 671 00:35:21,980 --> 00:35:25,540 S1: vegetative state, but all of this stuff that's going on 672 00:35:25,540 --> 00:35:29,859 S1: inside of you to admit I need help. That's the 673 00:35:29,900 --> 00:35:32,700 S1: that's the first place, you know. And then you have 674 00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:36,060 S1: to be careful about who you ask to give you 675 00:35:36,060 --> 00:35:39,259 S1: that help, because there were people around you who were 676 00:35:39,260 --> 00:35:42,180 S1: just saying those things, you know, come on, snap out 677 00:35:42,180 --> 00:35:45,580 S1: of it. Who really weren't there for you but were 678 00:35:45,700 --> 00:35:47,779 S1: more for themselves. Right? 679 00:35:47,820 --> 00:35:49,660 S3: Oh, there were several. 680 00:35:49,700 --> 00:35:52,740 S2: I, there had to be a big Ole audit that 681 00:35:52,780 --> 00:35:55,300 S2: God kind of forced me to do in the midst 682 00:35:55,300 --> 00:35:57,219 S2: of all this and then afterwards as well. But I 683 00:35:57,219 --> 00:36:02,660 S2: think during that really tough time in the summer of 2021, I, 684 00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:05,140 S2: you know, I had a partner at the time who 685 00:36:05,260 --> 00:36:08,700 S2: I had had this horrible panic attack. I was really struggling. 686 00:36:08,739 --> 00:36:11,180 S2: Like you could see it in my face. I was a. 687 00:36:11,180 --> 00:36:14,219 S2: I was a shell of myself. And I remember saying 688 00:36:14,260 --> 00:36:16,180 S2: to him, he was the one person I said this to. 689 00:36:16,219 --> 00:36:18,899 S2: I said, I'm not okay, and I'm afraid something bad 690 00:36:18,900 --> 00:36:22,740 S2: is going to happen. And he, you know, had some, 691 00:36:22,980 --> 00:36:26,580 S2: you know, not not radio friendly words to say and 692 00:36:26,580 --> 00:36:28,620 S2: just essentially was like, well, snap out of it. What 693 00:36:28,620 --> 00:36:30,420 S2: do you want me to do? I, you know, just 694 00:36:30,739 --> 00:36:34,100 S2: snap out of it. And, um, and I think that, 695 00:36:34,620 --> 00:36:38,379 S2: you know, being met with just a disregard to what 696 00:36:38,380 --> 00:36:41,660 S2: I was dealing with essentially just all added fuel to 697 00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:44,500 S2: that fire of I can't ask for help because look 698 00:36:44,540 --> 00:36:48,260 S2: at how this person judges me or this person doesn't 699 00:36:48,260 --> 00:36:50,900 S2: think it, you know, thinks this is just silly. And 700 00:36:50,900 --> 00:36:54,819 S2: so I think a lot of people don't get the 701 00:36:54,820 --> 00:36:59,180 S2: help they need because of the negative experience they've had 702 00:36:59,219 --> 00:37:02,700 S2: trying to get help. And that was a huge inspiration 703 00:37:02,700 --> 00:37:05,860 S2: behind this book is being like, hey, friend, I'm here 704 00:37:05,860 --> 00:37:09,500 S2: and you're not crazy and you deserve to be seen 705 00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:11,700 S2: and heard and get the help that you deserve. 706 00:37:12,060 --> 00:37:15,380 S1: And it's okay to not be okay, but it's not 707 00:37:15,380 --> 00:37:18,820 S1: okay to be. To not be okay by yourself. You know, 708 00:37:19,100 --> 00:37:21,580 S1: you've got to let somebody else in. And that's the 709 00:37:21,620 --> 00:37:24,779 S1: really hard in this culture and society and even in 710 00:37:24,780 --> 00:37:27,580 S1: the church, you know, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. 711 00:37:27,580 --> 00:37:30,020 S1: You can do it. It's, you know, Jesus can do 712 00:37:30,020 --> 00:37:32,460 S1: this in you. You don't need anybody else. It's like, well, 713 00:37:32,460 --> 00:37:35,660 S1: that's not how he lived. That's not how, you know, 714 00:37:35,700 --> 00:37:41,060 S1: Jesus got people around him, his, his disciples. And we 715 00:37:41,060 --> 00:37:43,500 S1: can go more into that. I want to find out 716 00:37:43,500 --> 00:37:46,620 S1: more about what was going on inside of you that 717 00:37:46,620 --> 00:37:51,379 S1: helped you then move forward. Uh, I'm wondering if there 718 00:37:51,380 --> 00:37:54,739 S1: was journaling that you did. What part of scripture, what 719 00:37:54,739 --> 00:37:57,140 S1: did you do with social media? What did you do 720 00:37:57,140 --> 00:38:00,660 S1: with your phone? And how do you live today differently 721 00:38:00,660 --> 00:38:04,660 S1: than you did five years ago? We're talking with Victoria Arlen. 722 00:38:05,140 --> 00:38:08,890 S1: The view is worth it. Unlocking the beauty in life's 723 00:38:08,890 --> 00:38:11,690 S1: peaks and valleys. At their featured resource at the website. 724 00:38:11,690 --> 00:38:29,850 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. Chris fabry.org. Her name is Victoria Arlen, 725 00:38:29,890 --> 00:38:35,529 S1: A RLEN. She speaks. She's a TV host, reporter, gold medalist, swimmer, 726 00:38:35,530 --> 00:38:38,250 S1: and a whole lot more. Author of the new book, 727 00:38:38,250 --> 00:38:41,730 S1: The View Is Worth It Unlocking the Beauty and Life's 728 00:38:41,730 --> 00:38:45,570 S1: Peaks and Valleys. Let me go to the difference between 729 00:38:45,570 --> 00:38:48,690 S1: you today and five years ago, when you were in 730 00:38:48,690 --> 00:38:53,290 S1: this huge rock bottom place. Um, how do you deal 731 00:38:53,290 --> 00:38:56,770 S1: with your phone with social media differently today than you 732 00:38:56,770 --> 00:38:57,530 S1: did then? 733 00:38:58,170 --> 00:38:59,489 S3: Oh goodness. I would go back. 734 00:38:59,489 --> 00:38:59,850 S2: And give. 735 00:38:59,850 --> 00:39:00,530 S3: Her a hug. 736 00:39:01,090 --> 00:39:04,770 S2: First and foremost. Um, but I think with, especially with 737 00:39:04,770 --> 00:39:08,170 S2: my phone and social media, I have put up immense 738 00:39:08,170 --> 00:39:12,890 S2: boundaries social media. I only give myself 1015 minutes a 739 00:39:12,890 --> 00:39:15,649 S2: day total and even then I don't always use it 740 00:39:15,650 --> 00:39:20,170 S2: because I really don't scroll. I'm not a doom scroller. I, 741 00:39:20,370 --> 00:39:23,730 S2: I very much post what I need to or talk 742 00:39:23,730 --> 00:39:25,969 S2: with my team, what needs to be on there, and 743 00:39:25,969 --> 00:39:29,529 S2: then that's it. I really, it's not my, it's not 744 00:39:29,530 --> 00:39:31,930 S2: my thing. And I've gone through phases to more recently 745 00:39:31,930 --> 00:39:35,090 S2: where I'll just, I'll go dark on social media because 746 00:39:35,090 --> 00:39:36,690 S2: I want to be really present. I want to be 747 00:39:36,690 --> 00:39:41,010 S2: focusing on a project. And I also just want that privacy. 748 00:39:41,050 --> 00:39:44,129 S2: And I think back then there was this pressure that 749 00:39:44,130 --> 00:39:46,930 S2: I thought I had to perform 24 over seven. And 750 00:39:46,930 --> 00:39:50,969 S2: I thought, you know, being constantly on, on and available 751 00:39:50,969 --> 00:39:54,250 S2: was a superpower when it in fact was not a superpower. 752 00:39:54,250 --> 00:39:58,290 S2: And I think there's been enough studies and, and stuff 753 00:39:58,290 --> 00:40:00,690 S2: out there that makes us realize, no, it is not 754 00:40:00,690 --> 00:40:04,290 S2: good to be so connected because it actually makes you 755 00:40:04,330 --> 00:40:07,370 S2: way more disconnected. So I think the version of me 756 00:40:07,370 --> 00:40:11,410 S2: then was trying to keep up appearances and perform, if 757 00:40:11,410 --> 00:40:15,049 S2: you will, versus now. I try to be as authentic 758 00:40:15,050 --> 00:40:18,170 S2: and real as possible, but I'm also posting when I 759 00:40:18,170 --> 00:40:21,250 S2: feel called to do so, or having a conversation when 760 00:40:21,250 --> 00:40:23,489 S2: I'm called to do so, but very much having those 761 00:40:23,489 --> 00:40:25,969 S2: boundaries of I'm not scrolling. So if you want to 762 00:40:26,010 --> 00:40:28,210 S2: let me know what you're up to, my friends tell me. 763 00:40:28,210 --> 00:40:30,450 S2: And we get together and we talk about it. And 764 00:40:30,489 --> 00:40:32,410 S2: I think same thing with my phone. I am the 765 00:40:32,410 --> 00:40:35,890 S2: world's worst texter, but that is just a plethora of reasons. 766 00:40:35,890 --> 00:40:39,330 S2: But I really have found myself putting my phone down 767 00:40:39,330 --> 00:40:44,410 S2: more because I really value being present, and I value 768 00:40:44,410 --> 00:40:47,530 S2: just being fully immersed with where I am. 769 00:40:48,410 --> 00:40:51,410 S1: Is there a verse or a passage that has helped 770 00:40:51,410 --> 00:40:52,930 S1: you from the scriptures? 771 00:40:53,969 --> 00:40:57,610 S5: There are several, Chris, but I will. I will have to. 772 00:40:57,650 --> 00:41:00,090 S2: Lean on the one that is mentioned three different times 773 00:41:00,090 --> 00:41:03,839 S2: in my office. And it is Proverbs three, verses five 774 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,799 S2: through six, and it's trust in the Lord with all 775 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,120 S2: your heart. Do not lean on your own understanding. In 776 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,040 S2: all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your 777 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:15,040 S2: path straight. And boy has that spoken on so many 778 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,560 S2: levels of my journey. But I think even in the 779 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,839 S2: midst of such struggle, whether it was when I was 780 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,440 S2: really sick or even when I was really struggling out 781 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,560 S2: of rock bottom ville was just trusting that God wasn't letting, 782 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,480 S2: wasn't letting me go, and wasn't leaving me alone. That 783 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,040 S2: even in the wilderness, he was with me because he 784 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:35,320 S2: knows what that's like. 785 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,720 S1: We had a guest. I met her when she was 99. 786 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,080 S1: Her name was Elsie Young, and I had her on 787 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,680 S1: over the next 5 or 6 years because she lived 788 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,560 S1: to 105 and a half. And so when Elsie would 789 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,840 S1: come on at some point in every conversation and she didn't, 790 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:54,799 S1: you know, she didn't say, I've got to get this in. 791 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,960 S1: It just happened. She talked about Proverbs three five and six, 792 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,160 S1: trust in the Lord. And that is, you know, if 793 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,840 S1: you will do that, if you will say, Lord, I'm 794 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,600 S1: trusting in you and what you are doing here, even 795 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,080 S1: though I don't understand what you're doing. And there are 796 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,640 S1: a lot of places in your life where you haven't 797 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,040 S1: been able to figure out, why are you making me 798 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:21,120 S1: go through this valley? If you put your trust in him, 799 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,440 S1: something good is going to happen, right? 800 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,879 S2: Absolutely. Because God doesn't leave us as much as we 801 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,920 S2: try to run away from him, he never runs away 802 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,960 S2: from us. And I think when I was in various 803 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,759 S2: parts of my life struggling, I would remember I would 804 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,840 S2: just have these moments, whether I was crying it out 805 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:41,920 S2: or I just didn't want to say it, but knew 806 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,360 S2: I should. I would just say, God, I trust you, 807 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,600 S2: and I trust that this storm isn't going to last forever. 808 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,400 S2: I trust that you will be with me in the valley, 809 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,560 S2: just as you are with me during the celebratory peak moment. 810 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,399 S2: And I think God speaks the loudest to us in 811 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,920 S2: the valley. We just have to be willing and brave 812 00:43:01,030 --> 00:43:05,870 S2: enough to listen to another. Another voice, if you will. 813 00:43:05,910 --> 00:43:10,509 S1: Yes. Okay. So do you still have panic attacks? Do 814 00:43:10,510 --> 00:43:13,670 S1: you still feel the tremors in your hands and all 815 00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:14,510 S1: that kind of stuff? 816 00:43:15,310 --> 00:43:16,830 S5: I have really worked. 817 00:43:16,830 --> 00:43:21,670 S2: I am a I'm meticulous with my mindfulness and practices 818 00:43:21,670 --> 00:43:24,470 S2: that keep me grounded. And I go to therapy every 819 00:43:24,469 --> 00:43:29,670 S2: week still. So thankfully my anxiety and depression have been 820 00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:33,430 S2: pretty mitigated. I mean, I think we all have moments. 821 00:43:33,430 --> 00:43:35,549 S2: I call them like some days it's just going to 822 00:43:35,590 --> 00:43:37,669 S2: rain and you just have to let it rain. Other 823 00:43:37,670 --> 00:43:39,549 S2: times you're going to be anxious because there's a lot 824 00:43:39,550 --> 00:43:42,470 S2: of good things going on and that's okay. So I'd 825 00:43:42,469 --> 00:43:44,350 S2: say as far as you know, where I was to 826 00:43:44,390 --> 00:43:46,390 S2: where I am, I mean, now it's more, as my 827 00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:48,910 S2: therapist says, now you're just dealing with this is a 828 00:43:48,910 --> 00:43:52,550 S2: normal anxiety. You have a book coming out or you have, 829 00:43:52,550 --> 00:43:54,750 S2: you're speaking in front of thousands of people. You know, 830 00:43:54,790 --> 00:43:57,149 S2: it's normal to feel that way or to, to have 831 00:43:57,150 --> 00:43:59,990 S2: those moments of doubt. But now I have tools, tools 832 00:43:59,989 --> 00:44:04,310 S2: that can help me avoid a panic or avoid slipping 833 00:44:04,310 --> 00:44:07,910 S2: down to that rock bottom. We. We can. I have 834 00:44:07,910 --> 00:44:11,029 S2: my village assembled to, you know, phone a friend, as 835 00:44:11,030 --> 00:44:13,989 S2: you say, to be able to not just stay in 836 00:44:14,030 --> 00:44:17,029 S2: that space. Because I think where it gets finicky is 837 00:44:17,070 --> 00:44:20,109 S2: when you just let it continue to spin, spin, spin, 838 00:44:20,110 --> 00:44:22,030 S2: and then you can't get off the merry go round. 839 00:44:23,070 --> 00:44:28,150 S1: I ask you that because in our culture, and sadly, 840 00:44:28,150 --> 00:44:31,029 S1: even in the church, a lot of people want to know, well, 841 00:44:31,070 --> 00:44:33,709 S1: are you done with that? Are you are you through that? 842 00:44:33,710 --> 00:44:35,629 S1: Did you snap out of it? You know, and what 843 00:44:35,630 --> 00:44:38,230 S1: did you do and what pill did you take or what? 844 00:44:38,270 --> 00:44:42,589 S1: You know, salve soothes you to get to a certain place. 845 00:44:42,750 --> 00:44:45,629 S1: And it's like, no, you've said it even here in 846 00:44:45,630 --> 00:44:49,270 S1: the conversation. It's not, it's not the outcome. You're not 847 00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:52,790 S1: looking for no stress in your life, no depression in 848 00:44:52,790 --> 00:44:55,190 S1: your life, no panic in your life. I mean, everybody 849 00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:58,510 S1: wants that. But that's not the end all, be all. 850 00:44:58,510 --> 00:45:03,109 S1: It's the process. It's him walking through this with you 851 00:45:03,110 --> 00:45:06,189 S1: and you trusting in him so that he can give 852 00:45:06,190 --> 00:45:08,910 S1: you the straight path and he can walk with you 853 00:45:08,950 --> 00:45:10,469 S1: through that, right? 854 00:45:10,790 --> 00:45:13,310 S2: Amen. It is. And I think it's realizing, look, we're 855 00:45:13,310 --> 00:45:15,469 S2: going to have peaks and we're going to have valleys, 856 00:45:15,790 --> 00:45:20,390 S2: and it's being able to navigate those and climb smarter 857 00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:23,630 S2: and climb not alone to be able to handle whatever 858 00:45:23,630 --> 00:45:25,950 S2: comes your way, because life will always be throwing stuff 859 00:45:25,950 --> 00:45:28,109 S2: at us. You know, we're I've had plenty of days 860 00:45:28,110 --> 00:45:30,350 S2: where I just cry at a shoe randomly. And I said, okay, 861 00:45:30,350 --> 00:45:32,430 S2: I probably need a nap and a snack and we're 862 00:45:32,430 --> 00:45:33,550 S2: going to keep it moving. 863 00:45:34,750 --> 00:45:39,509 S1: I like that a nap and a snack. That's that's helpful. Uh, Victoria, 864 00:45:39,550 --> 00:45:42,109 S1: you're a you're a real treasure. And again, thank you 865 00:45:42,110 --> 00:45:45,630 S1: for your vulnerability here and for writing this and pushing 866 00:45:45,630 --> 00:45:49,469 S1: past the victim voice that said, don't do that. Uh, 867 00:45:49,469 --> 00:45:51,550 S1: it's going to be healing to a lot of people. 868 00:45:51,630 --> 00:45:53,070 S1: Thanks for being you, friend. 869 00:45:53,630 --> 00:45:55,950 S2: Thank you, Chris, and thank you for just such an 870 00:45:55,989 --> 00:45:59,020 S2: impactful and meaningful conversation and for your support, I really 871 00:45:59,020 --> 00:46:01,260 S2: appreciate it. Hopefully we can help a lot of people. 872 00:46:02,020 --> 00:46:06,020 S1: Victoria Arlen, A RLEN is her name. Her book is 873 00:46:06,020 --> 00:46:11,620 S1: our featured resource at the website. Chris fabry.org. Somebody, if 874 00:46:11,660 --> 00:46:15,419 S1: you don't need it, somebody you know needs the kind 875 00:46:15,420 --> 00:46:19,020 S1: of vulnerability and truth that she talks about in The 876 00:46:19,020 --> 00:46:22,900 S1: View is worth it. Unlocking the beauty in life's peaks 877 00:46:22,900 --> 00:46:27,780 S1: and valleys. Again, our featured resource at Chris Fabry live.org. 878 00:46:29,060 --> 00:46:32,060 S1: I mentioned a little earlier in the program that tomorrow 879 00:46:32,140 --> 00:46:34,140 S1: John Gallagher is going to be joining us. Who wrote 880 00:46:34,140 --> 00:46:37,620 S1: that book, self-talk from the Psalms? We're going to talk 881 00:46:37,620 --> 00:46:40,660 S1: about that tomorrow right here at the Radio Backyard Fence. 882 00:46:40,820 --> 00:46:44,100 S1: Chris Fabry Live is a production of Moody Radio, a 883 00:46:44,100 --> 00:46:47,380 S1: Ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.