WEBVTT - Wisdom Over Wealth 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:13.800 It's often said that wisdom may create wealth, but wealth 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:18.240 rarely creates wisdom. Hi, I'm Rob West. What's more valuable? 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.480 Wisdom or wealth? Before you answer, consider that wealth is fleeting, 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:26.360 but wisdom is never lost. John Cortinas joins us today 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.720 to talk about why wisdom over wealth is always the 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:32.040 right choice. And then it's on to your calls at 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:39.080 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. This is faith 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:47.840 and finance. Live biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well, 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.200 I've been looking forward to having John Cortinas back on 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.159 the program. He's the director of partnership and growth at 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:56.280 the MacLellan Foundation and the author of True Riches What 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.560 Jesus Really Said About Money and Your Heart. John, it's 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:00.640 great to have you back. 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:01.760 Good to be with you, Rob. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.960 Thanks, John. Many listeners may not realize that you wrote 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:06.880 a study for us last year on the book of 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:12.280 Ecclesiastes titled Wisdom Over Wealth, which is available at faith.com/shop 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:17.360 for both individuals, small groups, also churches. We've received such 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:21.559 encouraging feedback from people who have been struck by Ecclesiastes 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:25.600 lessons on wealth, wisdom, and what truly matters. So before 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.720 we talk about the study itself, I'd love to know 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.319 about the process. What did that look like for you 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.200 as you walked through Ecclesiastes personally? 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:37.440 Um, you know, it's a, it's a mysterious book. It's 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.280 a meaningful book. There's a lot of wisdom in there. 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.959 And so we've titled this study Wisdom Over Wealth 12 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:47.320 lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money. And it has been a 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:50.320 joy and transformative for me to get into that book. 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:52.960 As you know, God's Word always has power. 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.800 It sure does. And to your point, Ecclesiastes is one 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:59.090 of those books we can easily overlook because at first 0:01:59.090 --> 0:02:03.090 glance it can feel difficult or even discouraging. But when 0:02:03.090 --> 0:02:05.810 we slow down and let the preacher speak, we discover 0:02:05.850 --> 0:02:11.210 a deeply hopeful message. Life is brief, wealth is limited. Achievement, 0:02:11.210 --> 0:02:14.730 pleasure and possessions can't bear the weight of our souls. 0:02:14.730 --> 0:02:18.370 But God alone can. And that's really the heart behind 0:02:18.370 --> 0:02:22.330 wisdom over wealth. 12 lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money. The 0:02:22.330 --> 0:02:27.609 study explores themes like contentment and work and generosity, even enjoyment, 0:02:27.610 --> 0:02:30.530 wisdom and the fear of the Lord. It reminds us 0:02:30.530 --> 0:02:33.929 that money is a gift to steward, not a treasure 0:02:33.930 --> 0:02:38.290 to worship. And we can receive God's provision with gratitude. 0:02:38.290 --> 0:02:40.769 We can enjoy it in its proper place and hold 0:02:40.770 --> 0:02:44.169 it with open hands, because our ultimate treasure is not 0:02:44.169 --> 0:02:46.810 under the sun. It is in the God who made 0:02:46.810 --> 0:02:49.850 us and sustains us and gives meaning to all we do. 0:02:49.850 --> 0:02:53.369 So in the study, you actually illustrate the importance of 0:02:53.370 --> 0:02:57.730 wisdom over wealth with a really powerful story. I'd love 0:02:57.730 --> 0:02:59.609 for you to unpack that for our listeners. 0:02:59.889 --> 0:03:03.570 Would love to do it. Yes. That story you just referenced, 0:03:03.570 --> 0:03:06.850 this was a real life experience or conversation I had, 0:03:06.889 --> 0:03:09.210 and it was with somebody who was a part of 0:03:09.210 --> 0:03:12.930 three siblings, and each of them had a substantial inheritance 0:03:12.930 --> 0:03:16.010 that they received. That was in today's dollars, about a 0:03:16.010 --> 0:03:20.490 million bucks. And so a lot of money at age 18. Okay. And, uh, 0:03:20.570 --> 0:03:23.650 it's amazing. The first one was kind of like a 0:03:23.650 --> 0:03:27.090 prodigal son story. So really sad. Um, they, they did 0:03:27.090 --> 0:03:29.570 not go down the right path and it was squandered 0:03:29.570 --> 0:03:33.090 and they ended up in a very poor position, uh, 0:03:33.090 --> 0:03:38.330 metaphorically and literally. Yeah. The second sibling, there was some mismanagement, 0:03:38.330 --> 0:03:41.130 but also a little bit more maybe good decision making 0:03:41.170 --> 0:03:43.690 as well. And they ended up in a house that 0:03:43.690 --> 0:03:45.490 at least they had, but the rest of the money 0:03:45.530 --> 0:03:49.690 kind of went away because expenses exceeded income. And so 0:03:49.690 --> 0:03:52.210 then here comes the third. And the third child in 0:03:52.210 --> 0:03:56.420 this family started having lunch with, uh, wise, godly leaders 0:03:56.420 --> 0:03:59.260 in their community and just asking, look, here's my story. 0:03:59.260 --> 0:04:01.300 Here's what happened to my siblings. I don't want it 0:04:01.300 --> 0:04:05.380 to happen to me. They actually hired a Christian financial advisor, 0:04:05.740 --> 0:04:07.860 and I was one of those lunches. And it was 0:04:07.900 --> 0:04:10.620 such a privilege to talk to this young person who 0:04:10.620 --> 0:04:13.380 was saying, look, I don't want what's happened to my 0:04:13.380 --> 0:04:15.780 older siblings to be my story as well. I want 0:04:15.820 --> 0:04:18.580 to honor God. I want to learn what investing looks like. 0:04:19.220 --> 0:04:22.020 And ultimately, there's a happy ending for this person because 0:04:22.020 --> 0:04:25.780 they finished a college degree, they learned about generosity, they 0:04:25.779 --> 0:04:28.220 learned about investing, and their life is one that is 0:04:28.220 --> 0:04:29.700 glorifying God today. 0:04:30.100 --> 0:04:32.260 And John, I couldn't agree more. I mean, what a 0:04:32.260 --> 0:04:36.419 picture of this idea that wisdom can generate wealth, but 0:04:36.420 --> 0:04:41.340 wealth rarely generates wisdom. This really underscores that, doesn't it? 0:04:41.700 --> 0:04:43.659 Yeah. If you look at this story, it's three people 0:04:43.660 --> 0:04:45.700 from the same family and they all got the same 0:04:45.700 --> 0:04:48.700 wealth input right as they entered adulthood. And there are 0:04:48.700 --> 0:04:52.340 three radically different outcomes. And I would argue that the 0:04:52.339 --> 0:04:54.020 difference was wisdom. 0:04:54.460 --> 0:04:57.060 That's exactly right. And we're going to explore this right 0:04:57.060 --> 0:04:59.380 around the corner. In fact, we'll dive into the book 0:04:59.380 --> 0:05:03.300 of Ecclesiastes, where we see this idea that wisdom and 0:05:03.300 --> 0:05:06.420 wealth are both good things, but only one of them 0:05:06.420 --> 0:05:10.020 can preserve your life. We're talking today with John Cortinas, 0:05:10.060 --> 0:05:13.860 our friend, frequent contributor, and the director of Partnership and 0:05:13.860 --> 0:05:18.020 growth at the MacLellan Foundation. Wisdom over wealth on Faith 0:05:18.020 --> 0:05:21.180 and finance. Today I'm Rob West and back with more 0:05:21.180 --> 0:05:34.940 right around the corner. Stay with us. Thanks for joining 0:05:34.940 --> 0:05:38.420 us today on Faith and Finance Live. What's more valuable, 0:05:38.420 --> 0:05:41.860 wisdom or wealth? We're talking about that today with our 0:05:41.860 --> 0:05:45.140 friend John Cortinas. He's the director of partnership and growth 0:05:45.140 --> 0:05:48.659 at the MacLellan Foundation and a frequent contributor here. And 0:05:48.660 --> 0:05:51.580 the study John wrote for us last year, wisdom Over 0:05:51.580 --> 0:05:55.500 Wealth 12 lessons from Ecclesiastes on money is the subject 0:05:55.500 --> 0:05:58.060 of our conversation today. By the way, you can pick 0:05:58.100 --> 0:06:02.979 up your copy today at faith fi.com/shop. Now, John, before 0:06:02.980 --> 0:06:05.300 the break, you told us this story. That's actually a 0:06:05.300 --> 0:06:08.420 true story. You were involved in this of three siblings 0:06:08.420 --> 0:06:12.860 that each inherited roughly $1 million in today's dollars. They 0:06:12.860 --> 0:06:17.460 had three different outcomes. One of them was tragic. Another 0:06:17.460 --> 0:06:19.460 didn't turn out the way we would have wanted. And 0:06:19.460 --> 0:06:23.420 yet the third was very God honoring. And you really 0:06:23.420 --> 0:06:26.940 suggested that the difference was wisdom. So take us into 0:06:26.940 --> 0:06:30.100 the book of Ecclesiastes to explore what you witnessed. 0:06:30.220 --> 0:06:33.540 Thanks, Rob. Yeah. So if we look at Ecclesiastes 711 0:06:33.540 --> 0:06:37.580 and 12, this is what it says. Wisdom, like an inheritance, 0:06:37.580 --> 0:06:40.700 is a good thing and benefits those who see the son. 0:06:41.020 --> 0:06:44.140 Wisdom is a shelter as money is a shelter. But 0:06:44.140 --> 0:06:47.860 the advantage of knowledge is this wisdom preserves those who 0:06:47.860 --> 0:06:48.419 have it. 0:06:48.700 --> 0:06:51.710 Yeah, a powerful truth. I know you've seen that play 0:06:51.710 --> 0:06:54.950 out time and time again now. We're not saying that 0:06:54.990 --> 0:06:56.469 wealth is bad, right? 0:06:56.510 --> 0:06:59.550 Of course not. Yeah. Scripture is clear that, uh, God 0:06:59.550 --> 0:07:03.070 has has given us these things for our enjoyment. As 0:07:03.070 --> 0:07:05.670 Paul says, wisdom and wealth are both good, as we 0:07:05.670 --> 0:07:09.190 just read in Ecclesiastes, but only one of them preserves 0:07:09.190 --> 0:07:11.790 our life. And so if we want to have life, 0:07:12.030 --> 0:07:14.710 wisdom has to be ahead of wealth. If you think 0:07:14.710 --> 0:07:17.270 about this, when you and I are born, when anybody 0:07:17.270 --> 0:07:20.150 is born, we're born without any wisdom, but we've got 0:07:20.150 --> 0:07:22.430 a crib to sleep in and there's people taking care 0:07:22.430 --> 0:07:24.430 of us. So we've already got some wealth, but we've 0:07:24.430 --> 0:07:26.390 got no wisdom yet, and we've got to flip that 0:07:26.390 --> 0:07:27.510 as soon as we can. 0:07:27.550 --> 0:07:30.150 Yeah, that's exactly right. And I love how our team 0:07:30.150 --> 0:07:33.830 worked with you to create visual reminders of the relationship 0:07:33.830 --> 0:07:38.110 between wisdom and wealth. The message is clear as wealth grows, 0:07:38.150 --> 0:07:42.310 wisdom must grow even faster. Otherwise money can quickly become 0:07:42.310 --> 0:07:44.670 dangerous for the soul. Isn't that right? 0:07:44.950 --> 0:07:47.870 That's right. You know, if you think about over our lifetimes, 0:07:48.310 --> 0:07:52.270 the traditional path wealth grows exponentially. There's compound interest, and 0:07:52.270 --> 0:07:54.910 so we can end up with a good deal of wealth. 0:07:54.910 --> 0:07:57.630 And yet, if we're not intentional to grow in our wisdom, 0:07:57.630 --> 0:08:00.950 the wealth is going to run ahead. And that creates risk. 0:08:01.270 --> 0:08:04.630 But the better way would be to prioritize wisdom. Because 0:08:04.630 --> 0:08:07.190 as we just read in Ecclesiastes seven, that will give 0:08:07.190 --> 0:08:10.710 us preservation. If wisdom is ahead of wealth, our life 0:08:10.710 --> 0:08:11.990 can be preserved. 0:08:12.230 --> 0:08:17.030 Yeah. And John, this can be pretty pronounced if we 0:08:17.030 --> 0:08:21.230 receive an inheritance or have a sudden wealth experience, it 0:08:21.230 --> 0:08:24.790 may not necessarily just play out over a lifetimes. Isn't 0:08:24.790 --> 0:08:25.310 that true? 0:08:25.710 --> 0:08:28.630 That's right. And that's where we can follow the example 0:08:28.630 --> 0:08:31.110 of the the young person whose story we just shared 0:08:31.110 --> 0:08:33.189 a bit of where, where he said, oh my goodness, 0:08:33.190 --> 0:08:35.470 I have all this money, I need some help. I 0:08:35.470 --> 0:08:37.950 need to talk to mature believers. I need a Christian 0:08:37.950 --> 0:08:41.030 financial advisor to help me navigate this and not blow 0:08:41.070 --> 0:08:41.670 things up. 0:08:41.870 --> 0:08:44.750 Yeah. Well, I love that you unpack this idea of 0:08:44.750 --> 0:08:48.800 obtaining wisdom because that's the natural next question. Then if 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:52.520 it's wisdom over wealth, how do I obtain wisdom? What 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:53.840 would you share with our audience? 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:56.280 I love that, and the first question I would ask 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.719 is what is wisdom? You know, we might think of 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.520 a list of best practices or some good ideas or 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:04.360 a checklist I can follow, but I would submit that 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:07.840 wisdom is both a perspective and a person. In first 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:12.360 Corinthians one, Paul refers to Jesus as Christ, the power 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:15.520 of God, and the wisdom of God. 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:18.760 MM. Yeah. That's right. And so, you know, as we 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:21.840 think about those in our life, we obviously need to 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.280 prioritize wisdom. But I know you've worked with a lot 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:28.920 of matriarchs and patriarchs thinking about transferring wisdom to the 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:32.400 next generation. You're thinking about that in your own family. 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.160 What counsel would you give them today around this idea? 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:39.760 You know, absolutely. I think there's so much biblical financial 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:43.080 wisdom in Scripture. But again, I would say it's not 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:45.640 a checklist, it's not a list of things that I 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.400 need to do. The question that's first and foremost is 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:52.000 do I know Christ? And anybody listening, I'd say, have 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:55.679 you encountered wisdom himself? He's the power of God and 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.960 the wisdom of God. We've each got the amazing opportunity 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.359 to know Jesus and His wisdom through praying, through diligently 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:06.120 studying His Word, and in doing so again, hearkening back 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.560 to that Ecclesiastes passage. He can preserve our life, and 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:12.199 he'll redeem our journey with money through his grace. 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:14.880 Yeah. And when it comes to our kids, you know, 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:18.200 clearly those who are listening today that are wrestling through 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:24.320 this wealth transfer conversation, thinking about passing wisdom before wealth 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:27.880 is really paramount. And if you haven't considered it, perhaps 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.200 this is that time to stop and think about that 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.920 before you execute your plans. How would you speak into 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:37.280 that dilemma that some are facing right now? 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:39.560 You know, this is such a huge question. The great 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.840 wealth transfer, of course, is talked about in media, popular 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:45.730 media all the time. Um, but man, as believers, we 0:10:45.730 --> 0:10:48.770 have such an opportunity to open up the conversation earlier. 0:10:48.770 --> 0:10:51.490 I would just encourage anybody out there thinking about this. 0:10:51.770 --> 0:10:53.970 I mean, we're trying to talk to our grade school 0:10:53.970 --> 0:10:56.450 children about this now. And so if we start the 0:10:56.450 --> 0:11:00.410 conversation about wealth and wisdom and faith and legacy from 0:11:00.410 --> 0:11:03.610 a young age, wherever you're at today, open up the 0:11:03.610 --> 0:11:07.569 conversational door. Uh, and that will give more time for 0:11:07.570 --> 0:11:09.490 things to play out. I'd say the way not to 0:11:09.530 --> 0:11:11.370 do it is, is make a will wait for you 0:11:11.370 --> 0:11:13.850 to die and hope everybody figures it out. Let's start 0:11:13.850 --> 0:11:14.890 the process today. 0:11:15.130 --> 0:11:18.329 Yeah, I think the key there is intentionality. Now, John, 0:11:18.370 --> 0:11:22.050 we mentioned earlier, this is just one lesson within the 0:11:22.050 --> 0:11:25.130 larger study you wrote for Faith VI last year, wisdom 0:11:25.130 --> 0:11:28.890 Over Wealth 12 lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money. So for 0:11:28.890 --> 0:11:32.570 our listeners, connect this topic to the bigger theme. You 0:11:32.570 --> 0:11:36.569 draw from Ecclesiastes and what God's Word teaches about money 0:11:36.570 --> 0:11:38.490 and wisdom and eternity. 0:11:39.010 --> 0:11:42.250 You know, spending so much time in Ecclesiastes to prepare this, 0:11:42.250 --> 0:11:45.050 there are two huge themes that jumped out at me 0:11:45.330 --> 0:11:48.170 studying all 12 chapters of that book. And the first 0:11:48.170 --> 0:11:51.130 one is not money. Actually, the first one is death. 0:11:51.170 --> 0:11:54.890 11 out of the 12 chapters of Ecclesiastes mention death 0:11:54.890 --> 0:11:57.850 in one way or another, but I would I would 0:11:57.850 --> 0:12:01.329 argue that the author of Ecclesiastes and God is communicating 0:12:01.370 --> 0:12:03.810 to us through this book, not to make us sad 0:12:03.809 --> 0:12:06.290 as we think about death, but actually to recognize that 0:12:06.290 --> 0:12:08.689 life is short. And he's given us the breath in 0:12:08.690 --> 0:12:12.490 our lungs today. It's an opportunity to enjoy him, to 0:12:12.530 --> 0:12:17.050 glorify him, and to seize the moment for his glory. Uh, 0:12:17.050 --> 0:12:21.530 and that actually feeds into the financial wisdom of Ecclesiastes 0:12:21.530 --> 0:12:24.929 as well. And so realizing life is short, wanting to 0:12:24.970 --> 0:12:28.050 honor God and fear him and obey his commands with 0:12:28.050 --> 0:12:30.770 the time we're given on earth, and then trying to 0:12:30.809 --> 0:12:33.650 manage our money in accordance with that. And we spend 0:12:33.650 --> 0:12:37.770 these 12 lessons unpacking that in this study that we've 0:12:37.770 --> 0:12:38.569 put together. 0:12:38.929 --> 0:12:41.890 Mhm. Yeah. John, as we begin to tie a bow 0:12:41.890 --> 0:12:45.410 on today's message and returning to this idea of wisdom 0:12:45.410 --> 0:12:47.770 over wealth, what's the big idea that you'd want to 0:12:47.770 --> 0:12:49.010 leave with our listeners today? 0:12:49.450 --> 0:12:52.010 I would just point once again to Jesus. It's all 0:12:52.010 --> 0:12:57.130 about him. Um, and, uh, he is the source of wisdom. 0:12:57.130 --> 0:12:59.090 And so, um, I'm so thankful for what you guys 0:12:59.090 --> 0:13:02.370 are doing through this, through Faith VI, through, um, Kingdom 0:13:02.370 --> 0:13:05.010 Advisors and putting that message out there that when we 0:13:05.050 --> 0:13:08.130 connect our faith and finances, uh, it actually starts to 0:13:08.130 --> 0:13:11.370 shape our heart and make us more like Christ. These 0:13:11.370 --> 0:13:14.250 are not two areas of our life that should be separate. Uh, 0:13:14.250 --> 0:13:16.410 we should bring them together in the short number of 0:13:16.410 --> 0:13:18.490 days that we've got for the glory of God. 0:13:18.530 --> 0:13:21.370 Yeah, that's exactly right. And I'm grateful for your hard 0:13:21.370 --> 0:13:24.250 work on this study, and I'm encouraged by the feedback 0:13:24.250 --> 0:13:27.610 we've already received. I look forward to seeing the continued 0:13:27.610 --> 0:13:30.570 impact that it will have. John, as we close, what's 0:13:30.570 --> 0:13:34.090 your hope and prayer for anybody that picks up that study? 0:13:34.570 --> 0:13:37.730 I would say recognize that your life is a gift. 0:13:38.010 --> 0:13:40.490 You've been given a brief moment of life. You can 0:13:40.490 --> 0:13:43.900 spend it in bitterness, you can spend it complaining, or 0:13:43.900 --> 0:13:46.460 you can recognize that God has given you a gift 0:13:46.460 --> 0:13:49.699 even in the challenges you face. So seek after him 0:13:50.059 --> 0:13:52.860 and make every day count for the glory of God. 0:13:53.220 --> 0:13:55.540 Yeah. That's right. Well, that's certainly our objective here on 0:13:55.540 --> 0:13:58.699 this program every day to help you see God as 0:13:58.700 --> 0:14:03.780 your ultimate treasure and money, a tool to accomplish his purposes. John, 0:14:03.780 --> 0:14:04.940 thanks for stopping by. 0:14:04.980 --> 0:14:06.500 Thanks so much, Rob. Great to be with you. 0:14:06.620 --> 0:14:09.700 That's John Cortinas, director of partnership and growth at the 0:14:09.700 --> 0:14:12.980 MacLellan Foundation. You can pick up your copy of Wisdom 0:14:12.980 --> 0:14:18.580 Over Wealth 12 lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money at faith.com/shop. 0:14:18.740 --> 0:14:35.620 That's faith.com/shop. Your questions are next. 800 525 7000. Stick around. Hey, 0:14:35.620 --> 0:14:38.020 thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live. 0:14:38.020 --> 0:14:43.300 I'm Rob West. Boy, what a just overwhelming, uh, opportunity 0:14:43.340 --> 0:14:46.380 we've had to see you respond during these 48 hours 0:14:46.380 --> 0:14:48.620 of impact the last couple of days. Thank you for 0:14:48.620 --> 0:14:52.340 your generous gifts as you've come alongside us to support 0:14:52.340 --> 0:14:56.620 directly the incredible work of the Moody Global Campus, uh, 0:14:56.620 --> 0:15:01.620 Lord willing that we would see many more, uh, courses 0:15:01.620 --> 0:15:05.340 translated into the native tongue of pastors across the globe, 0:15:05.340 --> 0:15:07.740 moving into Kenya, moving into other parts of the world, 0:15:07.740 --> 0:15:10.820 meeting the need for these many people, groups that are 0:15:10.820 --> 0:15:14.860 asking for Bible training in their language, meeting the need for, 0:15:14.900 --> 0:15:18.060 for oral learners. Uh, you all are just incredible. And 0:15:18.060 --> 0:15:19.980 we are so grateful to so many of you who 0:15:19.980 --> 0:15:22.300 stepped in with a monthly or a one time gift. 0:15:22.500 --> 0:15:24.460 Just amazing to see what the body of Christ can 0:15:24.460 --> 0:15:27.660 do together. Well, today we're back to regular programming, which 0:15:27.660 --> 0:15:30.380 means we want to help you think about managing God's 0:15:30.380 --> 0:15:32.820 money God's way. I mean, that was on full display 0:15:33.020 --> 0:15:35.260 the last couple of days during this hour as you 0:15:35.260 --> 0:15:38.310 were giving. That's one way we honor the Lord as 0:15:38.310 --> 0:15:41.630 we recognize the grace that has been extended to us. 0:15:41.790 --> 0:15:44.390 And then as a natural overflow of that, we take 0:15:44.430 --> 0:15:47.390 what has been entrusted to us that does not belong 0:15:47.470 --> 0:15:50.150 to us. It belongs to God. But we return a 0:15:50.190 --> 0:15:52.430 portion of it into God's economy. We can do that 0:15:52.430 --> 0:15:54.910 through our our charitable giving. We can do that through 0:15:54.910 --> 0:16:00.670 our strategic investments. Investments are how we support business, which 0:16:00.670 --> 0:16:05.070 is God's design for wealth creation. You know, the economic 0:16:05.070 --> 0:16:08.870 system that we operate in starts with creator. God created 0:16:08.990 --> 0:16:12.390 us in his image to keep and cultivate, uh, to 0:16:12.430 --> 0:16:15.470 be a blessing, to take the latent potential of his 0:16:15.470 --> 0:16:18.910 creation and put it to work for the flourishing of others. 0:16:18.910 --> 0:16:21.390 And we do that each day in part as we 0:16:21.390 --> 0:16:23.190 manage God's money. And so we want to help you 0:16:23.190 --> 0:16:25.830 do that today. We recognize you have questions, so we 0:16:25.830 --> 0:16:28.830 want to come alongside you and help you answer those questions. 0:16:28.830 --> 0:16:31.590 But if you have something on your mind today, financially, 0:16:31.590 --> 0:16:38.470 call right now (800) 525-7000. That's 805 257000. You can call 0:16:38.510 --> 0:16:42.190 right now. In the news today. Inheriting a family home 0:16:42.390 --> 0:16:47.630 can bring both financial opportunity and difficult decisions. When siblings 0:16:47.630 --> 0:16:51.550 or other relatives inherit property together, they often have to 0:16:51.590 --> 0:16:54.710 decide whether to sell, rent or keep the home while 0:16:54.710 --> 0:16:59.710 continuing to cover property taxes, insurance, maintenance and repairs. These 0:16:59.710 --> 0:17:03.310 decisions are becoming more common as trillions of dollars in 0:17:03.310 --> 0:17:07.750 wealth are expected to pass between generations in the coming decades. 0:17:07.990 --> 0:17:11.990 Rising home values have made real estate and especially significant 0:17:11.990 --> 0:17:17.630 part of many inheritances. Experts say disagreements can arise when 0:17:17.710 --> 0:17:21.790 heirs have different financial needs or emotional attachments to a property. 0:17:21.990 --> 0:17:27.750 Delaying a decision can also become costly because expenses continue 0:17:27.790 --> 0:17:33.070 even while the family considers its options. Tax considerations matter 0:17:33.070 --> 0:17:36.950 as well. Inherited property receives a new cost basis based 0:17:36.950 --> 0:17:40.270 on its fair market value at the owner's death, making 0:17:40.310 --> 0:17:45.030 a timely appraisal really important. Financial and estate planning professionals 0:17:45.030 --> 0:17:50.630 recommend discussing plans for family property well in advance, clear instructions, 0:17:50.630 --> 0:17:54.190 appropriate wills or trusts, perhaps a transfer on death deed 0:17:54.190 --> 0:17:57.670 if your state allows it, and a defined timeline for 0:17:57.710 --> 0:18:02.270 making decisions can help reduce conflict control costs and protect 0:18:02.270 --> 0:18:05.629 the property's value. Listen, I know this can get complicated, 0:18:05.630 --> 0:18:08.190 but hopefully, as you think through this, have a plan 0:18:08.190 --> 0:18:12.190 in advance. Communicate clearly. You can make sure you're operating 0:18:12.230 --> 0:18:16.070 as a steward in an orderly way, including the passing 0:18:16.109 --> 0:18:18.909 of the family home, what is often the largest asset. 0:18:19.109 --> 0:18:23.109 All right, let's dive into your questions today. 800 525 0:18:23.150 --> 0:18:25.270 7000 is the number to call. We're going to begin 0:18:25.270 --> 0:18:28.629 in Chicago. And Mike, you'll be first up. Go ahead sir. 0:18:29.990 --> 0:18:33.510 Thank you for taking my call. Um, so this year 0:18:33.510 --> 0:18:36.920 I turned 73. And of course, I have to meet 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:41.840 my required minimum distributions out of my IRA accounts. And 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:45.440 part of that will be charitable giving. And and then 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:49.040 of course, every month I also give charitably with my 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:53.200 monthly income. So what I'm wondering, my question is, is 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:57.880 there any advantage to giving a larger percentage of their 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:04.000 charitable giving to my IRA distributions? If at the end 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:07.080 of the year, the total amount of my charitable contributions 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:10.360 are the same? I hope my question makes sense to you. 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:16.480 But yeah, absolutely it does. And I think yes, for 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:19.680 many people, there is a tax advantage to making more 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:23.600 of their charitable giving directly from the IRA through what 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:27.680 you have probably become familiar with is the qualified charitable distribution. 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:33.800 And here's why the QCD satisfies that required minimum distribution 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:38.080 that you now have at age 73, and it's excluded 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:43.600 from your taxable income rather than included in income and 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:47.800 then offset by a charitable deduction. Um, so what you're 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:52.000 doing is you're keeping your adjusted gross income lower, which 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.719 can have additional benefits, uh, you know, that can reduce 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:59.720 or avoid what's called Irma. Um, which is the additional 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.160 premium you could have on your Medicare Part B and 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:06.600 part D, two years after your income goes up. So 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:09.720 assuming your income was going to go up your taxable income, 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.479 you know, when you turn 73, well, two years later, 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:15.440 you could have higher premiums to the tune of hundreds 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:19.760 of dollars a month for Medicare. Well, you avoid that 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:23.280 by keeping your adjusted gross income lower and doing more 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.840 of this through, uh, you know, your QCD, which means 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:30.320 none of your potentially RMD is added to your taxable 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:33.409 income as is a real benefit. It reduces the amount 0:20:33.410 --> 0:20:37.369 of Social Security benefits that are subject to tax. Um, 0:20:37.410 --> 0:20:41.450 it also can lower your state income taxes in some cases. So, 0:20:41.650 --> 0:20:44.609 you know, I like this idea, especially if you don't 0:20:44.609 --> 0:20:47.210 need the money from the R&D. And a lot of 0:20:47.210 --> 0:20:49.449 people are in that position where they're saying, listen, if 0:20:49.450 --> 0:20:51.770 it wasn't for the required minimum, I'd just leave it 0:20:51.770 --> 0:20:54.930 right there. My income is covered elsewhere. Well, if that's 0:20:54.930 --> 0:20:58.010 the case, why not do your charitable giving out of 0:20:58.010 --> 0:21:01.770 the IRA? Remember, it went in and you got a deduction. 0:21:01.770 --> 0:21:05.929 Normally it comes out as income that's taxable. The only 0:21:05.930 --> 0:21:09.409 way to get it out is through that qualified charitable distribution. 0:21:09.410 --> 0:21:12.209 So I'd keep your after tax money right there in 0:21:12.210 --> 0:21:14.729 your checking and savings and do as much through the 0:21:14.730 --> 0:21:17.090 IRA as possible. But does that make sense though? 0:21:18.330 --> 0:21:21.770 It does. I think I just don't understand how that 0:21:21.770 --> 0:21:25.090 changes my overall income at the end of the year, 0:21:25.090 --> 0:21:30.090 my overall taxable income when I. Isn't real clear how 0:21:30.090 --> 0:21:32.170 it changes my overall taxable income at the end. 0:21:32.210 --> 0:21:35.450 Okay. Yeah, let me address that because that's an important distinction. 0:21:35.450 --> 0:21:37.689 I've got to take a break here, Mike, but if 0:21:37.690 --> 0:21:39.810 you don't mind holding and if you can't, you can 0:21:39.810 --> 0:21:42.689 hang up and listen. I'll talk about the overall tax 0:21:42.690 --> 0:21:45.369 picture and how you think about that in light of 0:21:45.369 --> 0:21:49.530 the qualified charitable distribution. This is faith and finance live. Mary. 0:21:49.570 --> 0:21:51.970 Roger coming your way as well right after the break. 0:21:52.010 --> 0:21:56.250 800 525 7000. Call right now. We'll be right back. 0:22:08.650 --> 0:22:10.409 Great to have you with us today on Faith and 0:22:10.410 --> 0:22:13.530 Finance Live. I'm Rob West taking your calls and questions 0:22:13.530 --> 0:22:17.650 at 800 525 7000. Uh, before the break, we were 0:22:17.650 --> 0:22:20.650 talking to Mike in Chicago. He's turning 73, which means 0:22:20.650 --> 0:22:23.970 he's now going to have a required minimum distribution based 0:22:23.970 --> 0:22:26.770 on his age and his account balance. That's going to 0:22:26.770 --> 0:22:30.369 run him about 21,000 that the IRS says he has 0:22:30.369 --> 0:22:33.130 to take out for that first year. He and his 0:22:33.130 --> 0:22:37.570 wife two typically substantially more than that as charitable giving 0:22:37.609 --> 0:22:40.690 to ministry, which they do from after tax dollars. So 0:22:40.690 --> 0:22:44.649 normally they'd write a check from checking or savings and 0:22:44.650 --> 0:22:47.770 just make that gift direct. And he's wondering what is 0:22:47.770 --> 0:22:51.770 the overall benefit from the tax picture to doing the 0:22:51.770 --> 0:22:58.490 full 21,000 from my IRA to cover the required minimum 0:22:58.970 --> 0:23:02.570 and then do the balance out of checking or savings? Um, 0:23:02.570 --> 0:23:04.770 you know, how does that help me at all? Um, 0:23:04.770 --> 0:23:09.490 and essentially, you know, without the QCD, you take the 0:23:09.490 --> 0:23:13.610 full 21,000 required minimum into taxable income. So let's say 0:23:13.609 --> 0:23:17.490 you give 40,000 from savings. The tax return now includes 0:23:17.490 --> 0:23:21.610 21 grand of IRA income. You may get a charitable 0:23:21.609 --> 0:23:25.250 deduction only if you itemize. You probably do since you're 0:23:25.290 --> 0:23:30.500 giving a Is substantial, but your AGI is $21,000 higher 0:23:30.700 --> 0:23:35.500 with the QCD. You send the entire 21,000 of RMD 0:23:35.820 --> 0:23:40.540 directly to charity. You give only the remaining amount. In 0:23:40.540 --> 0:23:43.300 my example, if you're going to give 4000 total, you 0:23:43.300 --> 0:23:47.620 give the remaining 19 from savings. The total charitable giving 0:23:47.619 --> 0:23:52.900 still 40. But that 21000 never appears in your taxable income. 0:23:53.060 --> 0:23:56.179 So what changed? Well, the charity still received the total. 0:23:56.220 --> 0:24:01.020 The 40 you used 21000 less from savings because the 0:24:01.020 --> 0:24:04.700 IRA funded that portion. And the tax benefit is that 0:24:04.700 --> 0:24:10.139 the 21000 never became taxable income. You might say, but 0:24:10.140 --> 0:24:13.300 don't I lose the charitable deduction? Well, maybe. But that's 0:24:13.340 --> 0:24:17.140 often not the problem. Uh, and even if you itemize, 0:24:17.540 --> 0:24:21.340 you give up a charitable deduction on 21,000. But in 0:24:21.340 --> 0:24:24.220 exchange for that, you don't ever recognize it as income. 0:24:24.220 --> 0:24:27.020 And remember, that deduction is only on a portion of it, 0:24:27.020 --> 0:24:30.500 never on the whole thing. So the real advantage of 0:24:30.500 --> 0:24:35.300 the QCD is keeping your adjusted gross income lower, to 0:24:35.420 --> 0:24:37.940 not pay the tax on any portion of it, which 0:24:37.940 --> 0:24:41.780 you would otherwise have to do. Avoid the Irma. Avoid 0:24:41.780 --> 0:24:45.940 the additional taxation of Social Security benefits. Does that is 0:24:45.940 --> 0:24:47.020 that clear though, Mike? 0:24:48.580 --> 0:24:51.260 Yeah it is. I'm going to think about it a 0:24:51.260 --> 0:24:53.940 little bit. I'm going to listen to your explanation again. 0:24:53.980 --> 0:24:59.340 I do appreciate it. Yeah. I do appreciate uh, uh, yeah, 0:24:59.340 --> 0:25:02.980 it's just, uh, so at the end of the year, I'll, 0:25:03.260 --> 0:25:06.300 I'll do my income tax as basically as though I 0:25:06.300 --> 0:25:10.340 didn't even receive a required minimum distribution, basically. 0:25:10.380 --> 0:25:11.020 Exactly. 0:25:11.100 --> 0:25:15.379 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then I'll have, but, but then 0:25:15.380 --> 0:25:19.020 I'll have less charitable giving than I normally have. So 0:25:19.020 --> 0:25:20.260 I'll have no uh. 0:25:20.740 --> 0:25:24.429 You really wouldn't because here's the reality. you could still 0:25:24.430 --> 0:25:27.710 give the same amount. It's just that, you know, let's pick. 0:25:27.750 --> 0:25:29.990 So in my example, we were given 40. Maybe it's 0:25:29.990 --> 0:25:31.550 more than that. But let's say you were planning to 0:25:31.550 --> 0:25:35.430 give 40,000 to charity. Normally you'd do that out of 0:25:35.430 --> 0:25:39.710 savings or checking with after tax dollars. I'm just saying 0:25:39.710 --> 0:25:42.510 if your required minimums 21 and you don't need that 0:25:42.510 --> 0:25:46.149 money for to live on, let's give. 21 of the 0:25:46.150 --> 0:25:49.630 40 through the qualified charitable distribution. And the benefit is 0:25:49.869 --> 0:25:52.750 we never recognize that as income, meaning we don't have 0:25:52.750 --> 0:25:55.150 to pay tax on it. And then let's make up 0:25:55.150 --> 0:25:59.150 the difference. In my example, an additional 19,000, and you 0:25:59.150 --> 0:26:03.030 write that check from checking instead of the 40. And 0:26:03.030 --> 0:26:05.630 so the ministry still gets 40. They're just getting it 0:26:05.630 --> 0:26:08.470 in two checks, one check from the IRA, one check 0:26:08.470 --> 0:26:12.350 from you. And your real benefit is you satisfied the 0:26:12.350 --> 0:26:15.630 IRS requirement of the required minimum, but you didn't add 0:26:15.630 --> 0:26:19.270 a dime to your taxable income, which has multiple benefits. 0:26:19.950 --> 0:26:23.390 Okay. You said even had Benefits in coming years as 0:26:23.390 --> 0:26:26.270 far as my Social Security, Medicare premiums. 0:26:26.310 --> 0:26:28.990 Yeah. And your Medicare taxation. Exactly. 0:26:29.750 --> 0:26:33.950 Okay. Okay. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate your 0:26:33.990 --> 0:26:37.750 I appreciate your answer. It's a complicated answer, but it is. 0:26:37.790 --> 0:26:39.870 No, I totally get it. And a lot of people 0:26:39.869 --> 0:26:41.189 look at it and say, wait a minute, don't I 0:26:41.190 --> 0:26:45.430 get a deduction on that, that charitable contribution from the IRA? No, 0:26:45.430 --> 0:26:48.350 but you get something even better. It's just never counted 0:26:48.350 --> 0:26:50.950 as income. It wasn't counted as income. When you put 0:26:50.950 --> 0:26:53.510 it in, you got a deduction and it's not going 0:26:53.550 --> 0:26:56.110 to count as income coming out, which means you just 0:26:56.109 --> 0:26:59.390 got all that tax free growth. Um, and you know, 0:26:59.430 --> 0:27:02.030 you got a deduction in the very beginning. So it's 0:27:02.030 --> 0:27:04.270 a real win win. But it takes a little bit 0:27:04.270 --> 0:27:07.389 of mental gymnastics to get there. Hey God bless you Mike. 0:27:07.390 --> 0:27:09.669 We appreciate you being on the program today. Let's go 0:27:09.670 --> 0:27:12.430 to Michigan. Similar question from Susan. Go ahead. 0:27:13.350 --> 0:27:17.550 Oh yes. I hope I can articulate this adequately, but 0:27:17.590 --> 0:27:21.270 here's my question. Okay. I learned last year that if 0:27:21.270 --> 0:27:26.390 I gave my minimum distribution directly to charity, then they 0:27:26.390 --> 0:27:30.550 get the whole thing. And I really like that. But, um, 0:27:30.630 --> 0:27:33.830 here's what I was wondering. Can I give that, um, 0:27:33.869 --> 0:27:37.669 minimum distribution, like right now in the middle of the 0:27:37.670 --> 0:27:41.430 year because like I'm giving, uh, churches and things like 0:27:41.430 --> 0:27:44.790 that something every month, but I would rather just give 0:27:44.830 --> 0:27:46.629 like a big fat thumb. 0:27:47.070 --> 0:27:47.470 Yeah. 0:27:47.590 --> 0:27:50.470 Uh, what can I do that. 0:27:50.910 --> 0:27:54.670 You sure can. Yeah. You can make qualified charitable distributions 0:27:54.869 --> 0:27:57.510 at any time during the year, so you don't have 0:27:57.510 --> 0:27:59.830 to wait until the end of the year. Uh, and 0:27:59.830 --> 0:28:02.710 you also don't have to spread them out. So essentially, 0:28:02.710 --> 0:28:06.230 any time during the calendar year, you can make one 0:28:06.230 --> 0:28:10.470 QCD or several Qcds throughout the year. The only requirement 0:28:10.470 --> 0:28:14.230 is that you have to have completed at least your 0:28:14.230 --> 0:28:19.190 required minimum by December 31st, so to count for that 0:28:19.280 --> 0:28:23.359 tax year and toward that year's RMD, the funds have 0:28:23.359 --> 0:28:26.840 to leave the IRA and be received by the charity 0:28:26.840 --> 0:28:29.280 by year end. But if you want to do that 0:28:29.280 --> 0:28:31.680 starting in January and do it every month and get 0:28:31.680 --> 0:28:34.480 it done by December 31st, great. If you want to 0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:36.359 wait and do it, you know, the last couple of 0:28:36.359 --> 0:28:39.080 weeks of December, don't cut it too close. But as 0:28:39.080 --> 0:28:41.280 long as that money has been received by the charity 0:28:41.280 --> 0:28:44.920 by year end, it's going to count toward that year's, uh, 0:28:44.920 --> 0:28:48.640 required minimum. But they don't really care how many checks 0:28:48.640 --> 0:28:51.560 you write that in and over what period of time 0:28:51.560 --> 0:28:53.040 during that calendar year. 0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:58.240 Okay. And, um, I guess I don't know exactly what 0:28:58.240 --> 0:29:01.720 my actual minimum distribution will be, but I can kind 0:29:01.800 --> 0:29:03.960 of guess what it was. I know what it was 0:29:03.960 --> 0:29:07.360 last year. So just kind of do it that way. 0:29:07.400 --> 0:29:09.720 It's going to be a little higher. Yeah. Normally what 0:29:09.720 --> 0:29:14.080 happens is your IRA custodian, the company that sends you 0:29:14.120 --> 0:29:18.680 your statement like Fidelity or Schwab or Vanguard, they typically count. 0:29:18.840 --> 0:29:22.480 Calculate your R&D each year and make it available online 0:29:22.480 --> 0:29:25.120 or on your annual statement. So you're going to want 0:29:25.160 --> 0:29:27.160 to look at your, uh, you know, if you want 0:29:27.160 --> 0:29:29.200 to do it yourself, you could look at your year 0:29:29.200 --> 0:29:33.680 end account balance. So your December 31st account balance from 0:29:33.680 --> 0:29:36.280 the previous year, and then you would look at your 0:29:36.280 --> 0:29:42.880 IRS life expectancy table from the uniform lifetime table@irs.gov. And 0:29:42.880 --> 0:29:45.960 basically it's the prior year balance divided by the life 0:29:45.960 --> 0:29:50.240 expectancy factor. Um, but again, I would look to your 0:29:50.240 --> 0:29:53.640 IRA custodian because they should provide that number for you. 0:29:55.040 --> 0:29:58.520 Okay. All right. Thank you so much. 0:29:58.960 --> 0:30:03.040 Okay. Hey, listen, I love this conversation, folks. And by 0:30:03.040 --> 0:30:05.080 the way, you know, we've been talking about the Moody 0:30:05.080 --> 0:30:09.320 Global campus. We've been talking about translating these incredible Moody 0:30:09.320 --> 0:30:13.720 Bible Institute courses into the native tongue of people groups 0:30:13.720 --> 0:30:16.240 all over the world. If you want to support that, 0:30:16.240 --> 0:30:18.850 one of the great ways to do that is through 0:30:18.850 --> 0:30:22.130 a qualified charitable distribution. It comes right out of your IRA, 0:30:22.370 --> 0:30:25.850 goes to Moody Bible Institute to fund the training of 0:30:25.850 --> 0:30:29.850 the next generation of pastors all over the globe. Just 0:30:29.850 --> 0:30:34.130 go to Moody stewardship.org to learn more. A wonderful opportunity. 0:30:34.130 --> 0:30:36.890 The team would be delighted to talk you through it again. 0:30:36.890 --> 0:30:43.490 That website, Moody stewardship.org, and a qualified charitable distribution is 0:30:43.490 --> 0:30:47.690 a great way to give. Never recognize any taxable income 0:30:47.690 --> 0:30:50.810 and get more into God's kingdom. This is faith and 0:30:50.810 --> 0:30:53.570 finance live. I'm Rob West. We're taking your questions right 0:30:53.570 --> 0:31:06.330 after this at 800 525 7000. Great to have you 0:31:06.330 --> 0:31:09.410 with us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. Well, 0:31:09.490 --> 0:31:12.210 here in our final segment today, Jerry Boyer is here. 0:31:12.250 --> 0:31:15.690 Jerry Jerry joins us each Friday. And we talk markets. 0:31:15.690 --> 0:31:19.410 We talk corporate engagement. Today Jerry the market up slightly. 0:31:19.410 --> 0:31:24.930 But S&P 500 another record uh strongest week since April. 0:31:24.930 --> 0:31:27.770 I read earlier today. And that's just kind of been 0:31:27.770 --> 0:31:29.610 the order of the day. And and I know you 0:31:29.610 --> 0:31:31.810 and I were talking this morning and it sounds like 0:31:32.010 --> 0:31:35.810 perhaps this is a reaction to what we used to 0:31:35.810 --> 0:31:38.770 see move the markets, which was all about the fed. Right? 0:31:39.250 --> 0:31:41.210 Yeah. It looks that way to me. Uh, why does 0:31:41.210 --> 0:31:43.930 it look that way to me? Because, um, when you 0:31:43.930 --> 0:31:48.290 have bad economic news, especially in regards to employment markets, 0:31:48.890 --> 0:31:53.370 the fed tends to be dominated by a Keynesian economic framework, 0:31:53.610 --> 0:31:56.250 which says that, you know, the way to get unemployment 0:31:56.250 --> 0:31:59.050 down is to create new money, pump it into the 0:31:59.050 --> 0:32:02.330 system to stimulate things. Right. Uh, so if we have 0:32:02.330 --> 0:32:05.850 a situation where employment is not doing well and today's 0:32:05.850 --> 0:32:09.330 jobs report was pretty bad, well, then maybe the Fed's 0:32:09.330 --> 0:32:11.450 going to be easier. It's not going to tighten the 0:32:11.450 --> 0:32:15.180 money supply like everyone's been expecting. um, or maybe probably 0:32:15.180 --> 0:32:18.060 not tighten it as much. So that's the theory. So 0:32:18.060 --> 0:32:19.540 what does the data say? Well, if you look at 0:32:19.540 --> 0:32:22.340 the fed funds futures market is basically where people can 0:32:22.380 --> 0:32:25.020 kind of quote unquote bet on what the interest rate 0:32:25.020 --> 0:32:27.420 will be by the end of the year. It looks 0:32:27.420 --> 0:32:31.500 like less hiking, less tightening of the money supply. There's that, uh, 0:32:31.500 --> 0:32:35.940 in addition, um, the Dow, as opposed to the Nasdaq, 0:32:35.980 --> 0:32:39.380 Dow is kind of like regular stocks. Uh, Nasdaq is 0:32:39.380 --> 0:32:42.860 tech stocks a little bit more speculative. That tends to 0:32:42.860 --> 0:32:46.100 move more when there's easy money. So today the Dow 0:32:46.100 --> 0:32:48.980 is up a third of a percent. But the Nasdaq 0:32:48.980 --> 0:32:51.660 is up one and a third percent. Right. So that 0:32:51.660 --> 0:32:54.860 indicates that it's the easy money speculative part of the 0:32:54.860 --> 0:32:57.940 market that's moving. The other thing is gold's up, which 0:32:57.940 --> 0:33:00.700 suggests that the Fed's maybe not going to tighten or 0:33:00.700 --> 0:33:03.820 not tighten as much. And the dollar is down. So 0:33:03.860 --> 0:33:07.220 it all kind of amounts to the same thing. Easier money. Why? 0:33:07.620 --> 0:33:11.300 Because markets are saying, hey, the central bank, they don't 0:33:11.300 --> 0:33:15.020 follow classical economics. For the most part, they follow Keynesian economics, 0:33:15.020 --> 0:33:17.100 and they're not going to raise rates if the labor 0:33:17.100 --> 0:33:20.980 market is is is weak. Now, I don't think that's 0:33:20.980 --> 0:33:22.700 the way they should think about it. I think the 0:33:22.700 --> 0:33:25.860 fed should tighten the money supply when there's inflation and 0:33:25.860 --> 0:33:28.740 loosen the money supply when there's deflation. In other words, 0:33:28.740 --> 0:33:31.820 it pretty much should have one mandate, one job, protect 0:33:31.820 --> 0:33:35.100 the value of the currency. But for a long time, 0:33:35.100 --> 0:33:38.100 it really thinks it has two jobs. One is to 0:33:38.140 --> 0:33:40.580 fight inflation by slowing the economy down, and the other 0:33:40.580 --> 0:33:43.380 is to fight slowing down the economy by creating inflation. 0:33:43.540 --> 0:33:45.500 And you can never win that. You just go back 0:33:45.500 --> 0:33:49.180 and forth between these two conflicting mandates, which is basically 0:33:49.180 --> 0:33:51.700 the history of, um, you know, the last 100 years 0:33:51.740 --> 0:33:54.420 going back to the Great Depression of fed policy. 0:33:54.860 --> 0:33:58.219 Yeah. And they're actually making their job harder with the 0:33:58.220 --> 0:33:59.900 second part of that mandate, right? 0:34:01.100 --> 0:34:04.180 Yes, exactly. Uh, because if they, if they stimulate the 0:34:04.180 --> 0:34:07.100 economy with easy money, well, then they're going to get inflation. 0:34:07.500 --> 0:34:09.700 You know, what we're seeing is inflation doesn't seem to 0:34:09.739 --> 0:34:13.299 have been beaten. right. So the fed ought to be 0:34:13.340 --> 0:34:16.299 fighting inflation. That should be its one focus. As to 0:34:16.340 --> 0:34:19.340 the jobs market, well, the jobs market is driven by 0:34:19.340 --> 0:34:22.739 some regulatory problems and trade problems. We do not have 0:34:22.739 --> 0:34:25.780 a lot of we don't have much of a manufacturing renaissance. 0:34:25.780 --> 0:34:29.100 I understand we've seen press releases where the president is 0:34:29.100 --> 0:34:31.899 saying $1 trillion, probably the biggest ever. No one's ever 0:34:31.900 --> 0:34:35.140 seen numbers this big before of foreign investment. That's fine. 0:34:35.140 --> 0:34:38.859 But when we actually count the people getting manufacturing jobs, 0:34:39.020 --> 0:34:41.299 it's not that high. And the reason it's not that 0:34:41.340 --> 0:34:44.140 high is people are not going to do a lot 0:34:44.140 --> 0:34:48.620 of hiring or building factories, even in a situation where 0:34:48.620 --> 0:34:50.859 they don't know what the terms of trade are going 0:34:50.860 --> 0:34:52.980 to be. They don't know whether we're in a trade 0:34:52.980 --> 0:34:56.620 war or not, practically from hour to hour. One bright 0:34:56.620 --> 0:35:00.700 spot we saw in the jobs report today was construction, 0:35:00.700 --> 0:35:03.620 and that's almost certainly due to the AI build out. 0:35:03.660 --> 0:35:05.660 Now I know that's a fight right now. We got 0:35:05.660 --> 0:35:08.020 a culture war over AI like we do over every 0:35:08.020 --> 0:35:12.430 other thing other. Um. But all I'm saying is pretty 0:35:12.430 --> 0:35:15.710 much the only thing really rolling in this economy right now. 0:35:15.989 --> 0:35:19.469 It's not manufacturing, it's not services so much and it's 0:35:19.469 --> 0:35:22.310 not spending because spending is not what really rolls the economy. 0:35:22.310 --> 0:35:25.270 It's the result of productivity, not the cause. It doesn't 0:35:25.270 --> 0:35:30.190 cause spending doesn't cause um, prosperity. Spending is the result 0:35:30.190 --> 0:35:33.790 of prosperity. The thing that's really moving right now is AI. 0:35:33.830 --> 0:35:36.230 There's a huge amount of capital expenditure. And like David 0:35:36.630 --> 0:35:39.430 and I talked about at the conference call, um, the 0:35:39.430 --> 0:35:44.910 last one, um, almost all new capital expenditures on AI. Um, 0:35:44.950 --> 0:35:47.590 people say, well, that's a bubble. Well, yeah, well, if 0:35:47.830 --> 0:35:49.710 you're going to spend it on something, and if you're 0:35:49.710 --> 0:35:52.589 not going to build regular factories because you don't know 0:35:52.590 --> 0:35:55.910 whether there's a trade war, because factories depend on imports 0:35:55.910 --> 0:35:58.870 of commodities and exports of finished goods, you got to 0:35:58.870 --> 0:36:01.550 spend it somewhere. You got to invest it somewhere. So 0:36:01.590 --> 0:36:05.550 that's causing money to flow into, say, data center build outs. 0:36:05.830 --> 0:36:09.150 And I'm all I'm all for it. I'm in western Pennsylvania. 0:36:09.390 --> 0:36:13.390 We're seeing job growth here, and I like it. But really, 0:36:13.390 --> 0:36:16.230 I would also like factories. I would like the market 0:36:16.230 --> 0:36:20.629 to decide where the money goes. And what's pretty clear 0:36:20.630 --> 0:36:24.910 is the administration favors AI. And although it says it 0:36:24.910 --> 0:36:31.109 favors manufacturing, it's, um, uncertainty and instability in and around 0:36:31.270 --> 0:36:36.029 trade patterns really creates an anti manufacturing environment, even if 0:36:36.030 --> 0:36:38.430 they intend to create a manufacturing environment. 0:36:38.989 --> 0:36:42.910 Jerry we've been touting the great, uh, results from the 0:36:42.950 --> 0:36:45.629 earnings as of late. Most of this year. It's been 0:36:45.630 --> 0:36:48.430 stronger than expected. Uh, you know, you just said most 0:36:48.430 --> 0:36:51.950 of the AI boom right now is on the CapEx side. 0:36:51.950 --> 0:36:54.270 So that means, you know, it's what's to come in 0:36:54.270 --> 0:36:58.149 the future largely, do you think the productivity enhancements are 0:36:58.150 --> 0:37:00.910 in part why the earnings have been so good? Or 0:37:00.910 --> 0:37:03.750 is that really something that is more forward looking? And 0:37:03.750 --> 0:37:05.190 we've yet to realize that. 0:37:05.390 --> 0:37:08.520 I think about half and half. There's clearly productivity gains. 0:37:08.520 --> 0:37:12.040 We're not seeing them in the traditional productivity numbers, but 0:37:12.080 --> 0:37:14.879 it might be hard to analyze this. I remember was 0:37:14.880 --> 0:37:17.759 a Nobel Prize winning economist, New York Times guy. I 0:37:17.760 --> 0:37:20.920 can't remember his name now, said I see productivity numbers 0:37:20.920 --> 0:37:24.160 every place from the internet, every place, but in the 0:37:24.160 --> 0:37:27.040 productivity numbers. Right. Well, the internet turned out to make 0:37:27.040 --> 0:37:29.239 us productive. Right. A lot of people listening to you 0:37:29.280 --> 0:37:31.680 right now aren't on. Some weren't a lot on terrestrial radio, 0:37:31.680 --> 0:37:34.880 but people are also listening on podcasts. Right. And it 0:37:34.880 --> 0:37:37.520 did make us more productive. And AI is clearly making 0:37:37.520 --> 0:37:40.359 us more productive. It's a little hard to measure that, 0:37:40.360 --> 0:37:43.000 but it seems real. But I will say, when companies 0:37:43.000 --> 0:37:45.760 come out and say, hey, we're cutting jobs because of AI, 0:37:46.360 --> 0:37:49.359 I think they're mostly saying we're not going to hire 0:37:49.360 --> 0:37:51.600 as many people in the future because of AI. I'm 0:37:51.600 --> 0:37:54.320 not saying a lot of active cutting. So I think 0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:57.560 most of the productivity productivity gains from AI are in 0:37:57.560 --> 0:38:00.920 the future. And that's going to vary from business to business. 0:38:00.920 --> 0:38:02.879 But remember, we've been talking about this for a couple 0:38:02.920 --> 0:38:04.840 of years now. Some of that comes at the expense 0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:08.840 of somebody else. So if AI is creating new software, 0:38:09.320 --> 0:38:12.480 you know that companies are like building software internally, then 0:38:12.480 --> 0:38:14.680 that means they're not going out to Accenture to build 0:38:14.680 --> 0:38:16.960 the software for them. Right, right, right. So some of 0:38:16.960 --> 0:38:20.520 it cannibalizes other parts of it. It's not all gain. 0:38:20.880 --> 0:38:23.440 I'll take it. But there are some trade offs here. 0:38:23.880 --> 0:38:26.439 Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. All right, Jerry, let's turn 0:38:26.440 --> 0:38:28.879 the corner here. As you gear up for the next 0:38:28.880 --> 0:38:31.279 engagement season, what are some of the big themes your 0:38:31.280 --> 0:38:32.960 team is preparing to engage on? 0:38:33.400 --> 0:38:35.360 Well AI is certainly going to be part of it. 0:38:35.600 --> 0:38:38.359 I actually really like the AI productivity gains, but I 0:38:38.360 --> 0:38:42.440 don't like the AI productivity gains in creating indecent content 0:38:42.440 --> 0:38:46.600 involving children. That doesn't actually seem like productivity to me. Um, 0:38:46.640 --> 0:38:49.080 and so that's something we've engaged with in the past 0:38:49.080 --> 0:38:52.520 and plan to engage with in this upcoming season that, hey, 0:38:52.920 --> 0:38:55.920 I'm all for data centers. They're helping us do computer programs, 0:38:55.920 --> 0:39:00.040 helping us organize our spreadsheets and reading X-rays for us, etc., etc. 0:39:00.280 --> 0:39:03.240 but I don't want them creating, you know, creepy pictures 0:39:03.239 --> 0:39:06.680 for creepy people to download and make evil plans against 0:39:06.680 --> 0:39:11.760 their neighbors. And that's not just evil. It's also stupid 0:39:11.920 --> 0:39:16.719 because the backlash, the regulatory and the litigation, and even 0:39:16.719 --> 0:39:21.040 the criminal law backlash against that is going to be extreme. Uh, 0:39:21.040 --> 0:39:23.759 and I think AI needs to realize it's hanging on 0:39:23.760 --> 0:39:26.600 a thin thread right now in terms of the people 0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:30.880 being willing to accept it. Um, and if it's creating content, 0:39:30.880 --> 0:39:36.560 which is morally abhorrent and legally very risky, then that 0:39:36.560 --> 0:39:39.080 just might really affect their ability to build out the 0:39:39.080 --> 0:39:40.839 good parts of AI. So we're going to engage on 0:39:40.880 --> 0:39:43.640 that a lot. We're engaging a lot on companies partnered 0:39:43.640 --> 0:39:46.760 with the Southern Poverty Law Center, uh, which has used 0:39:46.760 --> 0:39:48.719 hate group lists in ways that don't really have to 0:39:48.719 --> 0:39:51.879 do with actual hate groups anymore. It's just Christians. You know, 0:39:51.920 --> 0:39:55.680 Christians who have standard Christian views are, are, you know, 0:39:55.719 --> 0:40:00.080 are called hate groups. So also discrimination against churches, uh, 0:40:00.200 --> 0:40:02.690 in employee gift matching. We're going to talk about that 0:40:02.690 --> 0:40:06.729 a lot. Discrimination against Christian employee resource groups. That's something 0:40:06.730 --> 0:40:09.170 we're we're talking about. We're also going to talk about, 0:40:09.210 --> 0:40:10.810 you know, we've talked about the war on energy in 0:40:10.810 --> 0:40:14.009 the past. Some green activists have gone after energy companies. 0:40:14.010 --> 0:40:17.529 Now they're going after food companies. So the sustainability there 0:40:17.570 --> 0:40:19.090 are people out there who don't think there ought to 0:40:19.090 --> 0:40:22.210 be 10 billion humans. They think we're at eight. They 0:40:22.210 --> 0:40:24.050 think maybe there should be two or 3 or 4, 0:40:24.450 --> 0:40:27.089 and they're planning for a future with a lot less 0:40:27.090 --> 0:40:31.370 food production. And they're putting pressure on companies to, you know, 0:40:31.410 --> 0:40:35.450 go all plant based and no, uh, you know, no 0:40:35.450 --> 0:40:38.569 antibiotics and just a whole lot of things that make 0:40:38.570 --> 0:40:42.050 it tougher for farmers to actually produce food for us 0:40:42.050 --> 0:40:45.730 because they think that's sustainable. We don't think that's sustainable. 0:40:45.969 --> 0:40:48.850 We like more people. People come out of the womb, 0:40:48.850 --> 0:40:51.370 they're hungry from the very beginning, and they're going to 0:40:51.370 --> 0:40:53.569 be hungry for their whole lives, and we don't think 0:40:53.570 --> 0:40:55.649 we ought to be. We don't think that companies ought 0:40:55.650 --> 0:40:58.850 to be micromanaging how farmers do their thing. So that's 0:40:58.850 --> 0:41:01.089 going to be an area we're going to be engaging 0:41:01.210 --> 0:41:04.450 a lot as well. Uh, so, and we've already we've 0:41:04.450 --> 0:41:08.130 got victories already in the season just started. Microsoft just 0:41:08.130 --> 0:41:11.649 told us, hey, our employee match program, our gift match 0:41:11.650 --> 0:41:14.250 program is now open to everybody. Anyone who has a 0:41:14.250 --> 0:41:16.250 501 C three so they can give to you, they 0:41:16.250 --> 0:41:18.650 can give to Moody's. Right? Um, they can give to 0:41:18.690 --> 0:41:20.890 their church, they can give to their synagogue. And it 0:41:20.890 --> 0:41:22.650 used to be that they had a whole bunch of screens. 0:41:22.650 --> 0:41:24.250 It's one of the biggest companies in the world that 0:41:24.250 --> 0:41:27.210 just changed that. So that's like, that's two weeks ago. 0:41:27.250 --> 0:41:31.810 We're just starting. Uh, so that's good. You know, so 0:41:32.370 --> 0:41:36.090 there's a lot going on right now. Um, with these companies. 0:41:36.250 --> 0:41:40.370 Last year was incredibly productive. This year so far is 0:41:40.370 --> 0:41:43.170 looking to be even more productive in getting companies just 0:41:43.170 --> 0:41:45.969 back to focused on your business. Stay out of the 0:41:45.969 --> 0:41:49.529 culture war, don't discriminate. We're not saying go out there 0:41:49.530 --> 0:41:52.410 and give all your money to, you know, to ministries, 0:41:52.690 --> 0:41:58.290 but don't blacklist them. That's crazy. Yeah. Um, just be fair. Um, 0:41:58.330 --> 0:42:01.420 and turns out a lot of companies are saying, all right. Yeah, 0:42:01.660 --> 0:42:03.500 I think we just want to be fair and they're 0:42:03.500 --> 0:42:04.540 responding accordingly. 0:42:05.180 --> 0:42:10.259 Perhaps, Jerry, this is the most unknown, understated driver of 0:42:10.260 --> 0:42:13.780 the future of our culture that the average Christian doesn't 0:42:13.780 --> 0:42:15.700 even know about. It's the work being done right now 0:42:15.700 --> 0:42:18.259 in corporate engagement. It's it's a big deal, isn't it? 0:42:18.700 --> 0:42:21.419 It is. It's a huge deal. And understated is part 0:42:21.420 --> 0:42:23.380 of the cost of doing it. If you take too 0:42:23.380 --> 0:42:25.620 many victory marches, they don't want the companies don't want 0:42:25.660 --> 0:42:27.260 to participate, don't want to cooperate. 0:42:27.700 --> 0:42:30.299 Yeah, that makes sense. Hey, Jerry. Have a great weekend, sir. 0:42:30.340 --> 0:42:31.340 We'll talk to you next week. 0:42:31.739 --> 0:42:32.780 Same to you. God bless. 0:42:33.020 --> 0:42:35.940 All right. That's Jerry Bowyer. He's our resident economist. Joins 0:42:35.940 --> 0:42:39.739 us each Friday on this segment. And I apologize. There's 0:42:39.739 --> 0:42:41.420 a few questions we didn't get to today. Let's see 0:42:41.420 --> 0:42:44.739 if we can get you scheduled to be on next week. 0:42:44.739 --> 0:42:47.660 Big thanks to my team today, the amazing tailor, Tara, 0:42:47.660 --> 0:42:50.740 Josh and Dan faith in finance lives, a partnership between 0:42:50.739 --> 0:42:53.299 Moody Radio and Faith. I have a wonderful weekend and 0:42:53.300 --> 0:42:55.180 then come back and join us next week. We'll see 0:42:55.180 --> 0:42:55.940 you then. Bye bye.