S1: It's more about reaching their heart with the imagination of
S1: being a virtuous person, than it is about some kind
S1: of a ten rules to discipline Your child. Every child
S1: still needs us to respond to their personality with the
S1: training that we do.
S2: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. Today,
S2: a mom discusses the joys and challenges of parenting her
S2: unique child. Sally Clarkson will join us straight ahead.
S3: The thesis in the book she and her son Nathan
S3: have written is that each parent is a unique child
S3: of God who is called to raise a unique child
S3: of God. They are encouraging resources featured at building Relationships.
S3: It's titled Uniquely You exploring your Child's extraordinary, distinctive Design. Again,
S3: go to Building Relationships. And Gary, you and Carolyn had
S3: two unique children. We've talked about Shelly and Derek here before.
S3: Do you resonate with our topic today?
S4: Absolutely, Chris. You remember when I wrote my book, things
S4: I Wish I'd Known before we Got married? I think
S4: the first chapter was, I wish I'd known that no
S4: two children are alike. Because our two. Of course she was.
S4: She was the daughter and he was the son. You know,
S4: so they were different biologically, but they also were different
S4: in every other way. So I can identify with this,
S4: and I think our listeners are going to find this
S4: session to be very, very helpful.
S5: I do too.
S3: Let's meet Sally Clarkson. She's a speaker, best selling author
S3: of some 33 books. She hosts the popular At Home
S3: with Sally podcast, which inspires women around the world. She's
S3: been married to her husband, Clay, for more than 40 years.
S3: They home educated all four of their children, and one
S3: of those children is Nathan Clarkson, her co-author of this book.
S3: It's again titled Uniquely You. You can find out more
S3: at Building Relationships.
S4: Well, Sally, welcome to Building Relationships.
S1: Oh. Thank you. I'm so honored to be with you.
S1: You influenced my life many years ago.
S4: Well. That's good. Well, you know, for those who don't know,
S4: you tell us a little bit more about who you
S4: are and some of what God has led you to
S4: do in your life.
S1: I feel like the Lord has been very gracious to me.
S1: I've given him my fish and loaves, and he took
S1: them and made something of them. I, I have four children, uh,
S1: four adult children, uh, from 40 on down. And, um,
S1: I found out, as in the past few years, that
S1: I am a kind of a one percenter sort of person.
S1: So writing uniquely you was a natural to my own life.
S1: But I love drinking tea, very strong tea. And I
S1: consider it a way to disciple and mentor and encourage
S1: other people. I'm a walker. I walk lots of miles
S1: every day, and I've lived over a quarter of my
S1: life in Europe and England, so I'm a little bit
S1: influenced by international things. So that's just a little bit.
S1: I love golden retrievers. How's that?
S4: All right. Well, all of that sounds exciting for sure. Well,
S4: this new book, uniquely you seems to be for parents
S4: who are struggling to understand their children and how to
S4: parent that child. Am I close to what the heart
S4: of the book is all about?
S1: Yes you are. I, I have a couple of children
S1: who are out of the box, way out of the box.
S1: And um, as I mentioned a minute ago, I eventually
S1: realized that I was also and as I was praying
S1: about this and I thought, Lord, I really desire to
S1: meet the hearts of my children to to be a
S1: steward of their gifts, their lives. And yet all four
S1: of them were so different. And as I was praying,
S1: I began to realize that every single human being has
S1: a different DNA, different fingerprints, different backstory, different, you know, facial. And,
S1: I mean, we are all made by God to to
S1: be different. And I thought if if that's really a
S1: part of God's design, how can I cooperate with his
S1: design to release each of my children to be unique,
S1: to not be cookie cutter in such a way that
S1: they will be inspired to use their uniqueness for God's
S1: glory and for his Kingdom purposes.
S4: Yeah, boy, I think a lot of parents would have
S4: profited to have known that and, and, and paid attention
S4: to that, you know, early on. Well, tell us about Nathan.
S4: What are some of the unique ways that he has
S4: stretched you as a mom?
S1: Um, well, Nathan is a verbal processor, which means that
S1: he liked to talk all the time and and had
S1: opinions on everything. But also he is ADHD, OCD, OCD, dyslexic.
S1: Oh my goodness. Um, and so he had a lot of, um,
S1: issues in his life. Sometimes I think some of those letters, though,
S1: mean that a person is brilliant. Um, you know, because
S1: I think that, uh, kids who question things, kids who
S1: think about everything, I look back on my own life and, um,
S1: one time my mom said, I wish you would just
S1: be normal. And of course, that went to the core
S1: of my heart. And she said, why do you ask
S1: so many questions? So I think that in a in
S1: an unusual way, the Lord prepared me through my own
S1: life to understand and and be dedicated to Nathan. Um,
S1: even though I didn't quite know how to harness, I
S1: used to read him the story of the Black Stallion,
S1: and I'd say, you know, Nathan, for the Black Stallion
S1: to win the race, he had to learn to accept
S1: the reins. And so that was my goal to inspire
S1: him to to run fast, but to to accept the
S1: reins of that clay and I needed to provide in
S1: order to be able to really help him to flourish
S1: in his life.
S4: Yeah. Why did you want to write together on this
S4: particular book, and how did your different perspectives influence the message?
S1: Actually, I have to tell you that Nathan, um, he
S1: lives in in New York on the Upper East Side,
S1: and he acts and does all these, uh, very, uh,
S1: he loves words. He has a podcast. And he came
S1: to me and said, first of all, he wanted to
S1: write the book different that that was kind of a
S1: prequel to this book. Uh, the story, the out of
S1: the box kid and the mom who loved him. And
S1: then he came to me again and he said, okay,
S1: we need to write another book together. There. And um,
S1: and so because I wanted to support his desire to
S1: continue to have messages to people, um, I agreed to
S1: it if he would do all of the legwork. So
S1: we we just, um, we're best friends and we understand
S1: each other. And he has such a desire to reach
S1: people who feel like they aren't really seen as they
S1: are people who feel misunderstood.
S4: Yeah.
S3: You know, Nathan was going to be with us today, Sally.
S3: And he had a film that he was called to.
S3: And so I'm sad that we don't get to hear
S3: his voice, but I think it's going to be really
S3: encouraging just to hear your perspective. And for the mom
S3: or dad who's listening to hear you say, uh, you know,
S3: here are the challenges that and to not look for
S3: him to be normal, but to use those challenges and
S3: the struggles that are uniquely his, for God's glory and
S3: for Nathan's good and the. And the dirty little secret
S3: is it's been for your good too, hasn't it?
S1: Oh, yeah. For sure. And I you know, I said
S1: to the Lord early in my life, I'm your girl.
S1: I will love you and serve you. What do you
S1: want me to do? And he said, I want you
S1: to raise these very different children, to reach their hearts,
S1: to send them into the world. And I'm going to
S1: equip you to do that, because I had never changed
S1: a diaper. I only had boys in my family. And, um,
S1: so I feel like I was ill equipped to be, um,
S1: I wasn't a perfect parent, but I was also ill
S1: equipped to know what I was doing. It was little
S1: by little. And I think that people need to know
S1: that you have a lot of years to grow into, to, um,
S1: really learn how to reach your children's hearts. There's so
S1: much pressure on parents today to conform to cultural standards
S1: or to what's on the internet or to social media.
S1: And I think that for me to realize that I
S1: was exactly the mom that my children needed to have,
S1: that God had prepared me to be their mother, really
S1: helped me to realize that I didn't need to compete.
S1: I didn't need to perform. I was free to walk
S1: by faith and to grow over a period of time,
S1: to be the kind of mother my children needed.
S4: Sally, you emphasize that every child is a unique creation
S4: of God. How can parents practically celebrate their children's differences
S4: while still fostering a sense of unity in the family?
S1: We put together my husband and I are both extremely
S1: intuitive in our lives, and we put together a 24
S1: family ways, which was a series of biblical principles around
S1: which our whole family life was built. We love and
S1: obey our Lord Jesus Christ with a respectful attitude and
S1: so on. We talked about work. We talked about how
S1: they treated one another. And I think that the bottom
S1: line for our children and they knew it was that
S1: unconditional love, affirmation, acceptance, and of every single person in
S1: our family was the foundation for our relationships. And if
S1: some people have asked me, well, did you ever apologize
S1: to your other children for the ones that were very
S1: different and caused a little bit of stress? And I said,
S1: If it's God's will for me to have this child,
S1: it's God's will for you, for this to be your sibling.
S1: And if you respond in love and respect to this
S1: beautiful human being who is your brother or sister, then
S1: you're going to really grow in ways and in beautiful
S1: ways that will help you the rest of your life.
S4: Yeah. So the differences can blend together with A sense
S4: of unity. Even though we're very, very different. Yeah, absolutely. Right, right, right. Well,
S4: you know, the book talks about understanding a child's personality,
S4: their learning style and their love language. What advice would
S4: you give parents who feel overwhelmed by the complexity of
S4: discovering all these traits?
S1: I think that so many parents are pushed and pulled
S1: by their jobs, by their life, by all sorts of things.
S1: But I would say, uh, you know, if you kind
S1: of just look at creation and say, oh my goodness,
S1: there's zebras with stripes and dalmatians with with dots and
S1: squirrels with curly tails. You know, we see just just
S1: let nature be an encouragement to you. I know that's
S1: a funny thing, but I thought, you know, Lord, you
S1: have made my children different for a purpose. And I
S1: think number one is find a wise person that you
S1: respect and ask them to pray for you. Ask them
S1: to meet with you and say, you know you've raised children.
S1: Can you give me any advice? Because I think that
S1: when parents feel supported and encouraged and affirmed for who
S1: they are, they're much more likely to keep going. Number
S1: two is give yourself time to grow. Realize that when
S1: you look at the life of Jesus, every disciple was different.
S1: Peter was the rock and he talked too much. But
S1: but God made him that way, and he became such
S1: a person for Christ. Thomas was a man in whom
S1: there was no guile. And John said, But I'm the
S1: one he loved. And as we look at the differences
S1: in the disciples lives and how Jesus treated and honored
S1: each of them according to their own drives, I learned
S1: that a couple of my children are extreme introverts, and
S1: they wanted time alone. Uh, they they weren't going to
S1: compete for attention, but they needed me. So I would
S1: make these chocolate chip cookie dough balls. And I have
S1: a little couch in my in every bedroom I ever
S1: lived in, and I would take them in there, whichever
S1: child needed attention at the time. And I would say,
S1: we have 15 minutes, let's be friends and let's eat
S1: this chocolate chip cookie and tea and tell me what's
S1: going on with you. And I realized that my extrovert
S1: or my introverts needed that personal time. My extroverts needed
S1: to talk and to do things and to be loud
S1: and to verbally process. And that that wasn't a negative thing.
S1: That was how God made them. And, um, so just
S1: learning over time to really watch, um, and see who
S1: they were and what they were like. I know Nathan,
S1: he's in New York City, as you said today in
S1: a show, in a television show. And he came to
S1: us when he was 19 and he said, I'm going
S1: to move to New York City and be an actor. And, um,
S1: Clay and I are thinking, no, you're not, you know.
S1: How can anyone trust a 19 year old to go
S1: to New York City? But actually, since he was seven
S1: years old, he had been acting out a little speech
S1: for a class I was teaching, and he was just
S1: my sidekick because I didn't have babysitting for him. And he, um,
S1: acted out. Audie Murphy, who was the most celebrated hero
S1: of World War One for American soldiers. And he was
S1: so dynamic that I had five different people who came
S1: up to me and said, this is a future actor
S1: when he was seven. And so, uh, we tucked that away. And, um,
S1: you know, we thought as long as we can kind
S1: of champion him and walk beside him and be in
S1: touch with him and help him to understand the issues
S1: that he might face in New York City. Um, was
S1: it a trial to us as parents? Yes, most of
S1: our children always were. But, um. But we believed in
S1: setting them free in the power of God's Spirit to say,
S1: what might I dream for your purposes? God. And, um,
S1: it's a yes. It's hard being a parent. And yes,
S1: it takes lots and lots of time for loving and
S1: words of affirmation as you talk about and really meeting their, um,
S1: love languages. But we, in spite of being imperfect, we
S1: see how our children each thrived by becoming their own
S1: unique adult with their own unique calling. And it started
S1: with that unconditional love and words of affirmation.
S4: Yeah.
S3: Sally Clarkson and she's joining us today to talk about
S3: uniquely you. It's our featured resource at Building Relationships. She's
S3: written this along with her son Nathan and I have
S3: to jump in here, Sally, and ask you, because you
S3: just mentioned the love languages. Earlier in the first segment,
S3: you said that Gary's input in your life has made
S3: a difference. Can you tell me more about that? What?
S3: What do you mean? Are you talking about the love languages?
S1: Yes I am. Um, I of course, when I became
S1: a parent, I read every book that was popular at
S1: the time, and his book stood out. And, um, I
S1: had already been kind of working on a Bible study
S1: about unconditional love and words of affirmation, actually, um, but
S1: I didn't have the other three down. And, um, when
S1: I read the book, it was as though something clicked
S1: in my heart and in my mind that, um, these
S1: were the ways that I was going to open the
S1: heart of my children. And, um, that time that they
S1: needed in order for me to listen to them, not
S1: to look at my phone, not to look at my computer,
S1: but to look at their eyes. Uh, for me to
S1: verbally affirm one of my children. I was going on
S1: a trip one time and she was my youngest. I
S1: had three children and three miscarriages and then a child
S1: at 42. And, um, we were going on a trip
S1: and I said, let me pack your suitcase for you.
S1: And she said, really? You're going to do that for me?
S1: And it never dawned on me that she loved to
S1: be helped, that she loved to be served. And I
S1: learned that from you. So it was really funny to me.
S1: I thought, this is not a big deal packing your suitcase.
S1: But if it means a lot to you, then that's
S1: what I'm going to do.
S4: Yeah. That's great. That's great. It's been amazing how God
S4: has used that concept of the love languages in marriages
S4: and parenting, you know, and really all close relationships because
S4: all of us need to feel loved, you know, by
S4: the people that we have a close relationship with. We
S4: hear this whole thing of parenting. Unique children can present
S4: unique challenges. So how can parents balance addressing the struggles.
S4: You know, while they're affirming the beauty of their child's individuality.
S1: I think that finding as much as you can about
S1: the issues that your child had, I read everything I could.
S1: I sought out counselors who understood. And I remember the
S1: day when we finally found a person who did some
S1: testing on Nathan and they said, oh, he exactly fits
S1: clinical OCD. And she said he will always have it.
S1: He will never change, but you can understand it more
S1: and help him to function in a more positive way
S1: in your home. And I think that sometimes when our
S1: children have difficulties in their relationship, we want to discipline
S1: them as though there's some way that we can discipline
S1: it out or whatever. We can't. That's part of who
S1: they are and will always be. I've learned that with
S1: my children, but I think that getting having support systems,
S1: having input, Becoming educated. Understanding more. Your book was an
S1: excellent resource for me. I think the more knowledge you
S1: can gather and and really say to other people, what
S1: did you do with your child who is clinically OCD?
S1: It helped me to have ways, practical ways to go forward.
S1: And the other thing I would say is find some
S1: good friends who really love your children and want to
S1: spend time with them so that you can have a break.
S1: Because I educated my children at home, and just to
S1: have a break by myself as an adult without children
S1: around for a little bit really helped me. And my
S1: husband understood that too. So he would take them away
S1: on Saturday mornings so that I could do absolutely whatever
S1: I wanted to do. So support systems education, people who
S1: understand you and don't just say you need to discipline
S1: them more, because that's not the issue with almost any
S1: child that that we've worked with.
S4: Yeah, I like the idea of reaching out for help,
S4: not just to professionals, you know, though that can be
S4: helpful also, but just to friends and others who are
S4: perhaps a little older than you as parents and have
S4: learned some things along the way.
S1: Yeah, right.
S4: So what if a parent who's listening today and they're
S4: constantly comparing their child and their family with another family?
S4: What advice would you give to them?
S1: I would say, stop doing that now. They're the older
S1: my children have gotten, and even when they were still
S1: at home, the more I realized that in the same
S1: way that God created diversity in nature, he created diversity
S1: in human beings that I had my own story to live.
S1: There's a picture in Scripture of Cup. Jesus said, Lord,
S1: if it's your will, take this cup from me. And
S1: David said, my cup runneth over. Well, a cup is
S1: a picture of your portion throughout Scripture, and every one
S1: of us has our own portion to drink. And we
S1: can we can take that cup and throw it across
S1: the room and, and say, um, I am going to, um,
S1: I hate the portion that I've been given. I don't
S1: understand it. Or we can say, Lord, help me to
S1: drink the portion that you've given to me in such
S1: a way that I can flourish. Help me to drink
S1: it with faithfulness. Don't compare yourself to other people. Your
S1: child is unique to God and needs to be accepted
S1: by you. We don't want to raise a cookie cutter generation.
S1: We want to raise people who can flourish into the
S1: very mold that God made them in the that the
S1: very personality that he created.
S4: I think if we can get that in our minds,
S4: it'll have a tremendous impact on how we relate to
S4: those children. You talk about parenting with God. That him
S4: being a part of the parenting process. What does that
S4: look like practically? Especially, you know, you're facing all the
S4: day to day frustrations and uncertainties and all of that.
S4: How does God and our relationship with him fit into
S4: all of that?
S1: You know, I gathered some wisdom along the way just
S1: by reading the word. And, um, I pictured that God
S1: had a file drawer in heaven that was just for
S1: my family. And I realized that it was it was
S1: a poison to worry or to fear or to get angry.
S1: And so I would pray to God and say, God,
S1: here is my child that you have given to me.
S1: Give me wisdom for this child. Lord, please work in
S1: their life, but I'm going to leave it to you.
S1: I'm not going to allow fear or allow anger to
S1: rule my heart because it's a poison to my heart.
S1: And then I spent daily time in the word and
S1: I would read verses like a gentle answer turns away wrath.
S1: And I thought, oh my goodness, I need to be
S1: gentle with my children. Um, and I would just read Scripture,
S1: and then it became God's vocabulary to me when I
S1: was in the midst of normal life. I learned to
S1: look into their eyes. I learned to use a quieter voice.
S1: I learned to give my teenagers the opportunity to have
S1: hormones and be irrational. Um, you know, it's it's a
S1: lot of practical things, uh, that you kind of gather
S1: in the treasure chest of your heart so that you
S1: can honor them. And my favorite verse about child raising
S1: is do to others what you would have them do
S1: to you. I realized that I wanted my children or
S1: I wanted my children to understand me. Um, and so
S1: I thought, I need to try to understand them. I
S1: wanted to hear, you know, encouraging words and life giving words.
S1: And so I made it a goal to give words
S1: of affirmation to them. So many different things. I thought,
S1: if I want this, then this is probably what is
S1: going to make a healthy relationship with them. And I
S1: don't think you have to feel like doing all the
S1: right things. You just have to do them.
S6: You know, Gary, what I hear.
S3: Sally saying is a lot of this process is letting go. And,
S3: you know, if it's a poison to worry, then really
S3: believing that God is involved in this whole thing. So,
S3: you know, you got to believe in his sovereignty. But
S3: the other thing, Sally, that that you just touched on
S3: is you want your child to be who your child is,
S3: not who you think your child ought to be. And
S3: that's part of the letting go process, isn't it?
S1: Mhm. Well, I have to say that um, because I
S1: wasn't accepted for who I was as a child and
S1: my husband and I were actually working in Vienna, Austria,
S1: where we were pastors at an international chapel and um,
S1: with 40 different countries speaking a variety in our, in
S1: our church. And, um, when we had a lot of
S1: them over for lunch, I realized, oh my goodness, there's
S1: so many different persons, different points of view, different personalities.
S1: And Clay and I talked about the fact that when
S1: we had children, we we thought, I think I'm going
S1: to home educate them. We'd never heard of that in
S1: our lives, but we wanted to give our children a
S1: place where they weren't compared to other people by grades
S1: or test scores, which nobody should ever do where they
S1: weren't under the pressure to perform or to conform. They
S1: worked with us side by side. We had hosted conferences
S1: all over the world and they would be with us.
S1: And so they got to meet lots of people. They
S1: were normal children in that way, but it taught us
S1: that all of our children are very different, have chosen
S1: different professions. Three out of the four live in the
S1: UK and work there and then. Nathan lives in New
S1: York City, but we we kind of really wanted to
S1: give them a life in which they weren't compared. They
S1: weren't cookie cutter people, but they were like all the
S1: unique stories of people we see in Scripture that they
S1: had their own story to live, their own work to
S1: accomplish for God's kingdom, because they didn't have the pressure
S1: of conforming. I think it freed them to say I
S1: we would say to them, I wonder what story you're
S1: going to tell with your life. I think it's going
S1: to be a great story. Maybe you'll be a musician.
S1: You're amazing at piano, or maybe you're going to be
S1: a great writer or whatever, but whatever families can do
S1: to just have freedom in the home. A safe place
S1: for a child to be who God made them to
S1: be is really a great foundation upon which to build.
S2: You're listening to the Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
S2: He's the author of the New York Times best seller
S2: The Five Love Languages. Mother and son Sally and Nathan
S2: Clarkson have teamed to write our featured resource at Five
S2: Love Languages. It's titled Uniquely You exploring your child's extraordinary,
S2: distinctive Design. Again, go to five Love Languages.
S4: For Sally, the word discipline can be a very sensitive
S4: topic with different ideas, especially as the children's personalities and
S4: temperaments vary. As we've been talking about, how do you
S4: tailor discipline to fit each child while remaining consistent?
S1: I think that, um, my husband and I over the
S1: years kind of cultivated our own particular biblical view of that,
S1: and that he wrote a book called Heartfelt Discipline. And
S1: he's he went he graduated from seminary years ago. He's
S1: kind of a scholar. And, um, he went through Scripture
S1: and really came up with a conclusion that it's more
S1: about training and habituating our children to our values and
S1: to the virtues that Christ had. It's no, not this, this, no,
S1: not this, this. And, um, so we kind of worked
S1: with our children in high training, high love. And what
S1: that means is, is we said, these are the 24
S1: ways that I mentioned earlier that our family is going
S1: to comply with the truth of God's Word. And if
S1: you can't follow these ways, there will be consequences. So
S1: maybe for the extroverted child, we would say, you have
S1: a choice to make if you if you can choose
S1: to ask for forgiveness or to bring peace in this situation,
S1: then great. Then you can continue to play. But if
S1: you choose to be a person of disharmony, you're going
S1: to have to sit over here with with mommy or
S1: with daddy, or you're going to have to write a
S1: paragraph out about what it means to be a peacemaker
S1: or whatever. We worked with training, filling their brains with
S1: truth and consequences. We just felt like, especially with our
S1: own children, some kind of harsh, I'm going to control
S1: you sort of discipline was just not the way that
S1: we were going to work with our children. Does it
S1: require more time? Yes. It requires more time to train,
S1: to instruct, to correct, to require consequences. But we found
S1: with each of the children they had different ways that
S1: they wanted to be respected and approached and trained. It's
S1: really fun for me because I was recently in Oxford again,
S1: where my daughter with my four grandchildren lives, and it
S1: was like deja vu. She was saying and doing the
S1: exact same things that we did in our house, and
S1: it was so fun to watch these precious little human
S1: beings with their own unique personalities to, at a very
S1: early age, learned to trust Mom and dad to respond
S1: to them, to develop a culture of unconditional love together.
S1: And so it's more about shaping the values in the heart.
S1: Reaching the heart. The heart is mentioned over 800 times
S1: in Scripture. It's more about reaching their heart with the
S1: imagination of being a virtuous person, than it is about
S1: some kind of a ten rules to discipline your child,
S1: which every child still needs us to respond to their
S1: personality with the training that we do.
S4: Yeah, I think that's a powerful area that a lot
S4: of parents miss, you know. We want to. Yes. Let
S4: them suffer consequences. But we want to wrap it all
S4: in love. Because the whole thing we're trying to do
S4: is just to help them become more like Christ and
S4: more like, you know what he wants them to be.
S4: So that's that's great. Well, for parents of multiple children,
S4: what are some strategies for nurturing each child's unique gifts
S4: without unintentionally creating favoritism or competition? What are your thoughts
S4: on that?
S1: You know, as I look back in my own life,
S1: I think that we need to be very careful not
S1: to compare our children, even as adults and as they
S1: are adults. And you need to determine that even as
S1: God loves us equally. I think that he he he
S1: died for each of us equally. He forgives us all.
S1: It's so important to not create a culture of competition
S1: in a home. I don't know how we accomplished that,
S1: but we just knew that each of our children. I
S1: think that love is the oxygen that gives life to
S1: each child. And so with some children, they needed more time,
S1: more personal time. With some children, they needed more encouragement
S1: or affirmation or understanding. But it's so important for us
S1: not to compare our children to one another and to
S1: free them to become exactly the adults that God created
S1: them to be. It's hard and it stretches you, but
S1: it will cause you to understand Christ and how we
S1: reach his world more. With all the people around us.
S4: Yeah. Did you ever notice with Nathan or his other
S4: siblings any sense that they felt like, well, you know,
S4: you're the favorite one. The other person's the favorite one?
S4: Did you ever sense any of that?
S7: You know.
S1: That's not been the our difficulty. Our difficulty would be
S1: more that sometimes a couple of the kids created more
S1: contention and required more time. You know, um, would maybe
S1: sass back or, or, um, or disagree or whatever. And
S1: so then we'd have to take time with more of
S1: the extroverts than the introverts. We would have to take
S1: more time to correct. And and our children knew that
S1: there was always going to be some kind of talk, correction, whatever.
S1: I tried really hard to give each of them individual time,
S1: individual focus for what I thought they needed. But it
S1: was more that, yes, they're nobody's perfect. No family is perfect.
S1: There were characteristics of Clarkson community that were irritating. Um,
S1: and so it was more about settling the conflict and, um,
S1: not allowing one child to take up all the time,
S1: if that makes sense.
S4: Yeah, yeah. Take us back to the time when you
S4: were trying to be Nathan's mom with all of his differences, and, uh,
S4: you really had no idea which way to go or
S4: how to do it. What what led you down the
S4: positive path that you followed?
S1: I think because I felt, um, judged by my own
S1: background and not accepted for who I was, I was
S1: very much like Nathan, uh, in the sense that I
S1: talked a lot. And now I get paid to talk.
S1: I just, I ask questions, and I thought all the time,
S1: I'm always thinking about words. I thought, this is what
S1: I wish that my parents had done for me. I
S1: wish they had liked who I was. I wish they
S1: had affirmed what I did when I was an adult.
S1: I wish that they had talked well of me to
S1: the other kids. So my story, everybody's story is different.
S1: The one thing I did want to say is that
S1: sometimes I found it hard to find other friends who
S1: understood the difficulties of my children. And you know that
S1: they would, that Nathan would sometimes get in trouble because
S1: he talked a lot. And so I would say, I
S1: think there's something different going on. These are things I've
S1: noticed with my child. He's very different than the other
S1: ones in these ways. And some of my friends would go, oh,
S1: he's just a normal teenager. And I thought, no, he's not.
S1: And they would say, um, aw, you're just having a
S1: hormonal day. And I thought, no, I'm not. You know,
S1: this is definitely something different. And I need support here.
S1: So not everybody understands children who are different. Yeah. And
S1: we talked a lot about that in the book. And, um,
S1: so I kind of want to say to people who
S1: maybe their children are easily compliant. I don't know if
S1: that exists, but, um, to give your friends who struggle
S1: with an out of the box child sympathy and an
S1: ear and support because it was hard for me. We
S1: ran a ministry and we had a lot of people
S1: that we worked with, and it was hard for me
S1: to not have some of the time people who understood.
S4: Yeah. What's one key takeaway that you hope parents will
S4: hold on to after reading your book? Uniquely you, and
S4: how can it transform their relationships with their children?
S1: I think every human being, every child, longs for love, acceptance,
S1: a safe place, a good friend, and I would say,
S1: if nothing else, ask God and and pray about it.
S1: What are some ways I can individually show my child
S1: that I am thrilled to be their parent, that I
S1: love them. That I am committed to helping them their
S1: whole life, that I. I will be there if they
S1: need someone to talk to. I think that one of
S1: the most profound things that we will answer to God
S1: for someday is as I was holding my little baby
S1: in my arms when she was first born. How are
S1: you going to so love that child so that they
S1: will believe in my love? How are you going to
S1: represent Christ in such a way that they'll see Jesus
S1: through the moments of your life, so they'll believe in
S1: Jesus when they are teenagers? Understand that one of the
S1: most profound things we will answer to God for is
S1: that he entrusted human beings into our hands to shape
S1: and to grow, and to love in such a way
S1: that he'll be glorified through our behavior and our actions.
S4: Yeah.
S3: So this is really interesting. You brought up in that
S3: last segment how the wound in your own life, the
S3: the love that you didn't feel from your own parents
S3: that you have allowed God to use that for good,
S3: not only in your own family and your own heart
S3: and life, but also now for other people. So the
S3: wound becomes a place of healing. I want to know,
S3: what was it like for you to hear Nathan? Actually,
S3: you read his words. He says this in his introduction.
S3: I was a unique kid who felt the daily pain
S3: of a world trying to fit me inside a box
S3: that I was never going to fit, but I had
S3: parents who listened to God, appreciated his unique design for me,
S3: and created a space in our home where I could
S3: grow freely into the person God created me to be,
S3: to tell the story he had created me to tell.
S3: What went on inside. When you read those words.
S1: I was very grateful. Obviously I thought, phew, we made it. Um,
S1: you know, it was just wonderful because I think there
S1: are many times in parents lives where they don't know
S1: if they if they're doing the right thing. But, um,
S1: as I looked back, I realized over a period of
S1: time that your story becomes your platform for reaching other people.
S1: Whatever your story is, if you trust God with it
S1: and says, Lord and say, Lord, how can I turn
S1: my story, my background, my family into a way that
S1: I might minister to other people? Because we all have
S1: a different story. But I think that what you learn
S1: in the wisdom that you acquire through that story becomes
S1: your platform of influence. Yeah, it was thrilling, actually. Just thrilling.
S1: And Nathan and I are best friends today.
S4: Yeah, I would think I could imagine reading those words,
S4: you know. Well, talk to the mom or dad listening
S4: who sees themselves in your story, but has been trying
S4: to change their child to fit them or into some
S4: mold that they have. What would you say to that parent?
S1: Well, I would say that, number one, you need to
S1: accept your child right now as they are, in case
S1: they never change, because I originally learned that a couple
S1: of my children are clinically OCD and that it was
S1: never going to change, their brains were never going to
S1: magically change theirs. I think sometimes we look for the
S1: right formula, the right book. Just give me the right
S1: rule to make this easier. Sometimes things are not going
S1: to become easier in this broken, chaotic world, but we
S1: can learn how to give it grace. We can learn
S1: how to cover our relationships with grace, to make progress,
S1: to move forward and learn more about love. God sees
S1: you as you are, who you are, as exactly the
S1: person that God wants to use to live your story well.
S1: And he loves you. He forgives you, he supports you,
S1: and he understands.
S4: Sarah, what would you say to the parent who feels
S4: like you know, I didn't sign up for a life
S4: to be this hard. And they're just right now they're
S4: just down there trying to figure out why, why, why?
S4: What would you say to them?
S1: You know, I think that's a great question. I actually
S1: am a little bit Pollyanna at heart. I would, you know,
S1: have these feelings of God. I, you know, I'm giving
S1: you everything. Can you make it a little bit easier
S1: for me, please? And I think that most of us
S1: were not in this in the last generation and in
S1: this generation, prepared for the sacrifices that God requires from
S1: us to be parents. You know, he puts babies into
S1: our hands who need to be fed, need to be protected.
S1: I mean, there is no choice. We are the ones
S1: that they look to for all of the work that
S1: it will take to be a parent. But I also
S1: think that the more I submitted to the hardness, the
S1: more I grew in my understanding of God's love, the
S1: more I became humble, which I needed to be. Um,
S1: the more I thought, my goodness, I am learning more
S1: about life and what really matters than I ever could
S1: have lived if I had an easy life. And I
S1: just think that I wish I had understood that to
S1: be in a fallen world means that there will be chaos,
S1: there will be brokenness, but that God will hold my
S1: hand every day as I walk through these difficult times.
S4: Yeah, and we can talk to him, right? Oh, God,
S4: this is hard. Oh, yeah. Help me, help me.
S1: Yeah. And I say, please, do you understand this person? Yes.
S1: For sure.
S4: You really believe that Psalm 139 is true where it
S4: says God knit me in my mother's womb? Mhm. How
S4: does that idea of your child being fearfully and wonderfully
S4: made change you as a mom?
S1: Well, I had to totally change my expectations of what
S1: it meant to be a parent. I thought my first
S1: two children were introverts and they were much easier. My
S1: second two children were not. I thought I was a
S1: perfect parent the first time around, and I realized that
S1: that I didn't have the formulas. I didn't know everything,
S1: but I did have this deep desire to love my children.
S1: So it required both Clay and me to change, to grow,
S1: to learn. And, um, you know, I think that most
S1: of us are not prepared. We're prepared to have a
S1: job or to accomplish things or to go into the world.
S1: But most of us haven't been in a culture that
S1: is family centered, that is children centered, that sees children
S1: as real, live human beings with great potential. And so
S1: we're having to learn a whole new area of life
S1: that we were never prepared to do. And that's just
S1: the reality.
S3: Sally, one question before we end here today. Talk to
S3: the parent who's listening to you and who says that
S3: I wish I had this 20 years ago, 30 years ago.
S3: But my opportunity is gone because my child now is
S3: an adult. What do you say to that parent?
S1: You know, I get letters all the time from people
S1: who say, I just wish that my parents and I
S1: could be close now. And I think it's never too
S1: late to. Jesus was a servant leader. He washed toes and, um, uh,
S1: 120 dirty man toes, and he took children in his
S1: arms and he put up with people. And it requires
S1: us to be a servant to our children. It may
S1: take a while, but Jesus told the story of the
S1: prodigal because the father was waiting there to love and
S1: bless the child who wasn't as close to him as
S1: he hoped. And so I think that, um, it's never
S1: too late to love well, to serve well, to be humble,
S1: to ask for forgiveness, knowing that your adult child still
S1: wants and longs for your affirmation.
S4: You know, I've often said that I wish there had
S4: been parenting books back when we were raising our children,
S4: and maybe there were. I just didn't know where they were.
S1: That's so true.
S4: Yeah. But I'd like to say to our listeners today,
S4: you are hearing today about a book on parenting that
S4: will really, really help you wherever you are in the journey.
S4: So I just want to encourage our listeners to get
S4: this book uniquely you, because I think this message will really,
S4: really give a lot of practical help and will also
S4: point you to God for his help. And after all,
S4: all of us need his wisdom. So I really appreciate
S4: you being on today. And thanks for you and Nathan
S4: and your investment in this book?
S1: Well, thank you so much for having me. What an
S1: honor to talk with you after I read your book
S1: so many years ago. Thank you. Thank you.
S3: Again. The title of today's resource Uniquely You Exploring Your
S3: Child's Extraordinary Distinctive Design by Sally and Nathan Clarkson. And
S3: you can find out more at Building Relationships. Again. Look
S3: for that featured resource there, Building Relationships.
S4: And next week finding hope and purpose as a military wife.
S2: Don't miss a practical discussion in one week. Our thanks
S2: to Janice backing and Steve Wick for their work behind
S2: the scenes. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a
S2: production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a
S2: ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.