1 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,750 S1: What did Jesus Christ really say about the very end? 2 00:00:11,780 --> 00:00:14,900 S1: How would he have us prepare for the end times 3 00:00:14,900 --> 00:00:18,200 S1: coming up the end of the world according to Jesus 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:22,250 S1: of Nazareth. We'll talk with prophecy expert Jeff Kinley. Plus, 5 00:00:22,250 --> 00:00:24,620 S1: we've got big news out of the Middle East, and 6 00:00:24,620 --> 00:00:27,320 S1: our devotional takes us to some real Raiders of the 7 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,460 S1: Lost Ark. So join us now for the land and 8 00:00:30,460 --> 00:00:33,970 S1: the book with our host, Middle East expert Doctor Charlie Dyer. 9 00:00:33,970 --> 00:00:37,900 S1: And I'm John Gieger. Well, Charlie, no exaggeration to say 10 00:00:37,900 --> 00:00:40,060 S1: that Israel has really been in the news a lot. 11 00:00:40,060 --> 00:00:42,699 S1: And as we know, the Bible is jam packed with 12 00:00:42,700 --> 00:00:46,630 S1: end times prophecies about epic world events, the regathering of 13 00:00:46,630 --> 00:00:50,530 S1: the Jewish people to their ancient homeland, and Jesus soon returned. 14 00:00:50,530 --> 00:00:52,780 S1: It is crucial for us as believers to have a 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,220 S1: proper understanding of Bible prophecy, it seems to me. So. 16 00:00:56,220 --> 00:00:58,350 S1: Our view of the future is shaped by Scripture and 17 00:00:58,350 --> 00:01:00,930 S1: not just all the headlines swirling around us. 18 00:01:01,050 --> 00:01:03,600 S2: That's absolutely true, John. With that in mind, our friends 19 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,930 S2: at Life in Messiah have published a book titled God, 20 00:01:06,930 --> 00:01:10,110 S2: Israel and Bible Prophecy, and they're offering it to listeners 21 00:01:10,110 --> 00:01:12,509 S2: of the land in the book for a limited time. 22 00:01:12,510 --> 00:01:15,930 S2: This informative book is focused on providing readers with a 23 00:01:15,930 --> 00:01:19,740 S2: deeper understanding and greater appreciation of what God has in 24 00:01:19,740 --> 00:01:22,740 S2: store for Israel and the nations by digging into what 25 00:01:22,740 --> 00:01:25,770 S2: the scriptures say about these issues. Now, if you're interested 26 00:01:25,770 --> 00:01:28,919 S2: in learning more about what God has in store, visit 27 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,340 S2: Life in Messiah. Org and click on the Moody Radio 28 00:01:32,340 --> 00:01:35,040 S2: button there to find out how you can receive your 29 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:41,010 S2: copy of God, Israel and Bible Prophecy. That's life in messiah.org. 30 00:01:41,390 --> 00:01:45,229 S1: Major headlines this week from the Middle East. On Wednesday, 31 00:01:45,230 --> 00:01:49,220 S1: Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh was assassinated in a missile strike 32 00:01:49,220 --> 00:01:53,210 S1: in Tehran. Charlie, was Israel behind the strike and what 33 00:01:53,210 --> 00:01:56,480 S1: implications does all this have for the war against Hamas? 34 00:01:56,510 --> 00:01:59,540 S2: Yeah, this was a real shocker. Haniyeh was in Tehran 35 00:01:59,540 --> 00:02:03,410 S2: participating in the inauguration ceremony for Iran's new president. Now 36 00:02:03,410 --> 00:02:07,210 S2: it's almost certain Israel was behind the strike after October 7th. 37 00:02:07,210 --> 00:02:10,570 S2: They said the leadership of Hamas were dead men walking. 38 00:02:10,690 --> 00:02:13,360 S2: This shows they met what they said, and it's a 39 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,960 S2: major blow against Hamas. The strike is also a warning 40 00:02:16,990 --> 00:02:20,620 S2: to other leaders of Hamas and to Iran and its allies. 41 00:02:20,620 --> 00:02:22,750 S2: You know, they're trying to figure out how Israel was 42 00:02:22,750 --> 00:02:26,470 S2: even able to target Haniyeh in the capital of Iran. 43 00:02:26,500 --> 00:02:30,269 S2: A short term, Iran will try to retaliate against Israel. 44 00:02:30,300 --> 00:02:33,960 S2: Israel is ratcheting up its defenses, including security for its 45 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,559 S2: own leaders, and a hostage deal with Hamas is likely 46 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,070 S2: back on hold. But this strike demonstrates to everyone in 47 00:02:41,070 --> 00:02:43,440 S2: the region that Israel is serious when it says that 48 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,930 S2: it will go after those who seek to harm them, 49 00:02:45,930 --> 00:02:50,220 S2: and that their reach can extend as far away as Tehran. 50 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,120 S1: Last weekend, Hezbollah fired a missile at Israel that killed 51 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,420 S1: 12 children playing soccer in a Druze town on the 52 00:02:57,419 --> 00:03:00,959 S1: Golan Heights. Since then, what have we learned about that attack? 53 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,270 S1: And could this lead to an even broader war in 54 00:03:03,270 --> 00:03:04,050 S1: the region? 55 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,839 S2: Yeah, this is the first of those two major attacks 56 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,840 S2: that Israel brought. Now, let me give you some background. 57 00:03:09,930 --> 00:03:13,109 S2: Majdal Shams is a Druze town on the Golan Heights. 58 00:03:13,139 --> 00:03:16,110 S2: The Druze are an Arab minority who are an offshoot 59 00:03:16,110 --> 00:03:19,709 S2: of Islam, but who consider themselves distinct from Islam. The 60 00:03:19,710 --> 00:03:22,739 S2: missile was fired from a Lebanese village on the slopes 61 00:03:22,740 --> 00:03:26,399 S2: of Mount Hermon. Hezbollah fired it. They since have denied 62 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,330 S2: firing the rocket, but parts were recovered containing markings that 63 00:03:30,330 --> 00:03:34,170 S2: show it was manufactured in Iran. What's not known is 64 00:03:34,169 --> 00:03:37,680 S2: why Hezbollah would fire a missile at this town or 65 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,770 S2: at the Druze. It's possible that the targeting data fed 66 00:03:40,770 --> 00:03:44,110 S2: into the missile was an error, but we simply don't know. 67 00:03:44,140 --> 00:03:48,130 S2: We do know the attack brought worldwide condemnation across the 68 00:03:48,130 --> 00:03:51,970 S2: political spectrum. In Israel, leaders were calling for retaliation against 69 00:03:51,970 --> 00:03:55,900 S2: Hezbollah for the brutal attack. Western powers, including the United States, 70 00:03:55,900 --> 00:03:59,050 S2: condemned the attack. But we also began pressuring Israel not 71 00:03:59,050 --> 00:04:01,600 S2: to respond in a way that could expand the conflict. 72 00:04:01,630 --> 00:04:05,050 S2: Iran also warned Israel that there would be, quote, consequences 73 00:04:05,050 --> 00:04:09,510 S2: to any major response. Israel did respond by targeting Hezbollah's 74 00:04:09,510 --> 00:04:14,730 S2: senior commander, Fouad Shuker. He was Hezbollah's most senior military 75 00:04:14,730 --> 00:04:19,409 S2: commander and their chief advisor for planning and directing wartime operations. 76 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,620 S2: The U.S. had a $5 million bounty on his head 77 00:04:22,620 --> 00:04:26,489 S2: because of his involvement back in the 1983 bombing of 78 00:04:26,490 --> 00:04:29,580 S2: the U.S. marine barracks in Beirut. Now, much like what 79 00:04:29,580 --> 00:04:33,000 S2: Iran has done, Hezbollah has vowed revenge. But just like 80 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,820 S2: with the attack on Hindiya, the fact Israel could locate 81 00:04:35,820 --> 00:04:39,540 S2: and target Shuker has their leadership looking over their shoulders 82 00:04:39,540 --> 00:04:41,070 S2: with some concern. 83 00:04:41,339 --> 00:04:43,800 S1: You're listening to The Land and the book from Moody Radio. 84 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,190 S1: Our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, noted Middle East scholar, is 85 00:04:47,190 --> 00:04:50,010 S1: helping us understand current events from the week based in 86 00:04:50,010 --> 00:04:53,810 S1: the Middle East. Well, the US, Israel and China appear 87 00:04:53,810 --> 00:04:57,289 S1: to be offering competing views of what the future should 88 00:04:57,290 --> 00:05:00,560 S1: look like for Gaza and the area currently controlled by 89 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,950 S1: the Palestinian Authority. How do they differ and what might 90 00:05:03,950 --> 00:05:05,780 S1: happen in the coming months? 91 00:05:05,900 --> 00:05:08,870 S2: Well, this might temporarily take a back seat to events 92 00:05:08,870 --> 00:05:12,260 S2: there with Hezbollah and with Iran. But all of these 93 00:05:12,260 --> 00:05:15,290 S2: groups have their own vision of what should come next. 94 00:05:15,410 --> 00:05:19,450 S2: The US wants to establish a post-war Gaza peacekeeping force 95 00:05:19,540 --> 00:05:22,930 S2: involving troops from the United Arab Emirates and perhaps Egypt, 96 00:05:22,930 --> 00:05:26,049 S2: that will be outfitted and trained by the US. The 97 00:05:26,050 --> 00:05:30,279 S2: current administration also wants to re-energise the Palestinian Authority, to 98 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,400 S2: unify the West Bank and Gaza Strip in preparation for 99 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,779 S2: the establishment of a Palestinian state. Israel's goals don't match 100 00:05:37,779 --> 00:05:41,260 S2: those of the US. They don't envision a fully independent 101 00:05:41,260 --> 00:05:44,610 S2: Palestinian state, which they believe would end up being controlled 102 00:05:44,610 --> 00:05:48,360 S2: by Islamic fundamentalists like Hamas, who would turn the entire 103 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,290 S2: area into an even larger version of Hamastan, as they've 104 00:05:52,290 --> 00:05:55,830 S2: called it. Israel is less clear on what a semi-autonomous 105 00:05:55,830 --> 00:06:00,360 S2: region might look like, though it would apparently involve Palestinian leadership. 106 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,230 S2: Without the corruption of the current Palestinian Authority or the 107 00:06:04,230 --> 00:06:08,070 S2: Islamic fundamentalism of Hamas. One name that's been floated is 108 00:06:08,070 --> 00:06:12,270 S2: former Gaza based security chief Mohammed Dahlan, who has been 109 00:06:12,270 --> 00:06:15,420 S2: living in the United Arab Emirates since Hamas expelled the 110 00:06:15,420 --> 00:06:19,140 S2: Palestinian Authority from Gaza. On the surface, he would seem 111 00:06:19,140 --> 00:06:21,720 S2: to be acceptable to many Palestinians as well as to 112 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,140 S2: the West. But Dylan has consistently said he would not 113 00:06:25,140 --> 00:06:28,110 S2: take on such a role and frankly, no other candidate 114 00:06:28,110 --> 00:06:31,580 S2: has surfaced. Now, to compound it all, China's involvement right 115 00:06:31,580 --> 00:06:34,520 S2: now seems to be an attempt to undermine the role 116 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,540 S2: of the U.S. they hosted 14 Palestinian groups in Beijing 117 00:06:38,540 --> 00:06:41,690 S2: that signed a declaration agreeing to end their divisions and 118 00:06:41,690 --> 00:06:44,420 S2: form a unity government. The goal is to be the 119 00:06:44,420 --> 00:06:50,240 S2: establishment of a Palestinian state covering all the pre 1967 territory. Now, 120 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,000 S2: this might be popular in many countries around the world, 121 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:58,250 S2: but it totally ignores Israel's concerns. So what's going to happen? Well, 122 00:06:58,250 --> 00:07:00,830 S2: it depends on a number of things. The outcome of 123 00:07:00,830 --> 00:07:04,219 S2: Israel's war with Hamas, the current impact of what's happening 124 00:07:04,220 --> 00:07:08,240 S2: in both Lebanon with Hezbollah and with Iran, the ability 125 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,510 S2: of the Palestinians to unify and to some extent, the 126 00:07:11,510 --> 00:07:14,960 S2: outcome of our own election in November. And right now, 127 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,180 S2: the results of all of those are very unclear. 128 00:07:18,210 --> 00:07:23,460 S1: Archaeologists announced the discovery of a massive fortification that protected 129 00:07:23,460 --> 00:07:27,420 S1: the kings of Jerusalem. What exactly was uncovered and how 130 00:07:27,420 --> 00:07:30,780 S1: accurate is their interpretation of this discovery, Charlie? 131 00:07:31,110 --> 00:07:35,220 S2: Well, archaeologists uncovered a large moat, or channel that appears 132 00:07:35,220 --> 00:07:37,560 S2: to have been dug across the northern end of the 133 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,560 S2: original city of David to separate it from the Temple 134 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,340 S2: Mount area, Mount Moriah, further north. This dry moat was 135 00:07:44,340 --> 00:07:49,020 S2: 30ft deep and extends 2 to 300ft along that northern edge, 136 00:07:49,020 --> 00:07:52,410 S2: having been cut through solid rock. Now, it divided the 137 00:07:52,410 --> 00:07:55,110 S2: original city from the area to the north, where the 138 00:07:55,110 --> 00:07:58,380 S2: royal palace and the temple would have been located. This 139 00:07:58,380 --> 00:08:01,530 S2: is a remarkable discovery, but I think we need to 140 00:08:01,530 --> 00:08:04,530 S2: take the interpretation being given at least the preliminary one 141 00:08:04,530 --> 00:08:07,590 S2: with just a bit of skepticism, at least for right now. 142 00:08:07,620 --> 00:08:10,710 S2: I can't argue with the discovery itself. The trench was 143 00:08:10,710 --> 00:08:13,680 S2: discovered on the west side, and seems to connect to 144 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,690 S2: a depression on the eastern side of the city that 145 00:08:15,690 --> 00:08:19,380 S2: was actually found by Kathleen Kenyon about 80 years ago. 146 00:08:19,410 --> 00:08:22,020 S2: The issue I have is with the scriptures that these 147 00:08:22,020 --> 00:08:25,050 S2: archaeologists are using, and the date being given to help 148 00:08:25,050 --> 00:08:27,960 S2: explain the find. Now, here's what I mean. Archaeologists are 149 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,700 S2: dating the find to the time of King Josiah. He 150 00:08:30,700 --> 00:08:34,870 S2: reigned from 640 to 609 BC. To put that in perspective, 151 00:08:34,870 --> 00:08:38,920 S2: Jeremiah began to prophesy in the 13th year of King Josiah. 152 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,310 S2: But the archaeologists suggested the biblical support for the discovery 153 00:08:42,309 --> 00:08:46,120 S2: can be found in First Kings 1127, which describes how 154 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,150 S2: Solomon built the Milo and closed up the breach of 155 00:08:49,150 --> 00:08:52,150 S2: the city of his father, David. Now Solomon reigned from 156 00:08:52,150 --> 00:08:56,550 S2: 970 to 931 B.C. that's 300 years before the date 157 00:08:56,550 --> 00:08:59,700 S2: given to the find. And that verse says, Solomon built 158 00:08:59,700 --> 00:09:02,610 S2: up the structure and closed the breach, which is the 159 00:09:02,610 --> 00:09:06,270 S2: opposite of digging the structure and creating the breach. So 160 00:09:06,270 --> 00:09:08,760 S2: we have evidence for a moat or a trench dug 161 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,280 S2: during the time of the Kingdom of Judah. But we 162 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,280 S2: don't have clear biblical evidence telling us who dug the 163 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,070 S2: trench or why it was dug. Now, I suspect it 164 00:09:17,070 --> 00:09:21,390 S2: may take several more years of excavations before archaeologists begin 165 00:09:21,390 --> 00:09:23,550 S2: to work out all those details. And in the meantime, 166 00:09:23,550 --> 00:09:26,069 S2: we can say that a motor trench has been found, 167 00:09:26,070 --> 00:09:28,740 S2: but we don't know who dug it or why. 168 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:33,840 S1: An Israeli startup has developed a robotic hospital worker that, uh, 169 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,590 S1: never calls in sick. And that could help alleviate a 170 00:09:37,590 --> 00:09:42,150 S1: growing shortage of workers. Tell us about unlimited robotics in 171 00:09:42,170 --> 00:09:43,370 S1: Amazing Israel. 172 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,880 S2: Unlimited robotics has developed. Gary. It's designed to do multiple 173 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,550 S2: tasks that take up health care staff's time. Now, there 174 00:09:49,550 --> 00:09:51,709 S2: have been a lot of robots before, but Gary can 175 00:09:51,710 --> 00:09:55,610 S2: mop floors, clean and sanitize rooms, deliver food trays, fetch 176 00:09:55,610 --> 00:10:00,350 S2: linens and medical devices, but also engage geriatric patients in conversations. 177 00:10:00,350 --> 00:10:03,860 S2: Spot telltale signs in patients showing a risk of falling. 178 00:10:03,860 --> 00:10:07,480 S2: Be an interpreter. Provide real time translation between patients and 179 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,950 S2: medical professionals. Record conversations, provide transcripts and add them to 180 00:10:11,950 --> 00:10:14,980 S2: medical files. Keep an eye out for broken windows on 181 00:10:14,980 --> 00:10:18,250 S2: authorized personnel or anything else out of the ordinary, and 182 00:10:18,250 --> 00:10:21,099 S2: summon security or maintenance. Now that's just some of what 183 00:10:21,130 --> 00:10:24,250 S2: Gary does. Now, this isn't a concept for the future. 184 00:10:24,250 --> 00:10:26,860 S2: A fleet of Gary Robots is already on the job 185 00:10:26,860 --> 00:10:30,670 S2: in two major Israeli hospitals and a hospital in Philadelphia. 186 00:10:30,700 --> 00:10:33,010 S2: You just think someday you might find yourself in the 187 00:10:33,010 --> 00:10:36,400 S2: hospital when a nice robot ambles in, bringing you your supper, 188 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,860 S2: pausing to see how you feel and perhaps swapping a 189 00:10:38,860 --> 00:10:40,929 S2: story or two with you. And when that happens, you 190 00:10:40,929 --> 00:10:44,260 S2: can thank unlimited robotics and amazing Israel. 191 00:10:44,260 --> 00:10:46,510 S1: And that's a look at current events from the Middle 192 00:10:46,510 --> 00:10:50,319 S1: East with our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer. Fascinating segment coming up. 193 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,040 S1: What Jesus Christ really said about the very end here 194 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:54,780 S1: on the land. 195 00:10:54,780 --> 00:10:55,740 UU: And the book. 196 00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:15,240 S1: Why talk about end times doomsday subjects? Short answer because 197 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,179 S1: Jesus Christ talked about them and he did so in 198 00:11:18,179 --> 00:11:21,230 S1: great detail. For that reason alone, you and I should 199 00:11:21,230 --> 00:11:24,950 S1: pay attention. And as we rapidly approach the last days, 200 00:11:24,950 --> 00:11:29,150 S1: his message is more relevant to us than ever. Welcome 201 00:11:29,150 --> 00:11:31,730 S1: to segment two of the land and the book. I'm 202 00:11:31,730 --> 00:11:34,820 S1: John Gager. We're about to look at what Jesus own 203 00:11:34,820 --> 00:11:38,300 S1: teachings reveal about the last days. But right now, let's 204 00:11:38,300 --> 00:11:41,359 S1: zero in on Jesus very last command to every one 205 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,590 S1: of us. And that's making disciples. How can we more 206 00:11:44,590 --> 00:11:47,650 S1: effectively reach out to our Jewish friends with the good 207 00:11:47,650 --> 00:11:53,260 S1: news of Jesus? Here's an idea finding Messiah in unexpected places. 208 00:11:53,260 --> 00:11:56,020 S1: Wouldn't you love for your Jewish friend to find him? Well, 209 00:11:56,020 --> 00:11:58,480 S1: let's sit down with Michael Riedel and let him kind 210 00:11:58,480 --> 00:11:59,980 S1: of take us on a bit of a tour. What 211 00:11:59,980 --> 00:12:00,730 S1: would you say, Michael? 212 00:12:00,730 --> 00:12:03,970 S3: Well, there's one passage in particular that I found interesting. 213 00:12:03,970 --> 00:12:06,900 S3: I was on a translation team for a Bible, and 214 00:12:06,900 --> 00:12:08,880 S3: I was given the book of Joel to do the 215 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,699 S3: initial translation before the team got to work on it, 216 00:12:11,820 --> 00:12:13,740 S3: and we weren't allowed to look at the English Bible. 217 00:12:13,740 --> 00:12:17,820 S3: And so I was translating Joel in verse 23. I 218 00:12:17,820 --> 00:12:20,610 S3: translated it quite differently than most English Bibles. In the 219 00:12:20,610 --> 00:12:23,550 S3: English Bible. It says, Children of Zion, rejoice and be 220 00:12:23,550 --> 00:12:26,520 S3: glad in the Lord your God, because he gives you 221 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,640 S3: the autumn rain for your vindication. But in Hebrew it 222 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,170 S3: doesn't say that at all. It says, rejoice, because he 223 00:12:33,170 --> 00:12:38,240 S3: gives you the teacher for righteousness. That's what it says. 224 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,260 S3: And it's the phrase that the Qumran Dead Sea Scroll community, 225 00:12:42,260 --> 00:12:44,689 S3: they took that for their leader, the teacher of righteousness. 226 00:12:44,690 --> 00:12:47,059 S3: But it actually is a promise that the Messiah would 227 00:12:47,059 --> 00:12:50,570 S3: come and he would be our teacher for righteousness. Our 228 00:12:50,570 --> 00:12:54,410 S3: morality is what the Hebrew says. And I was so 229 00:12:54,410 --> 00:12:57,200 S3: surprised when I saw that. And there's actually an article 230 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,800 S3: in the handbook showing how this is great messianic prophecy. 231 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,540 S1: To my friend who says, well, that's nice, but I 232 00:13:02,540 --> 00:13:04,610 S1: think you're reading too much into it. What do you say? 233 00:13:04,610 --> 00:13:07,670 S3: Ah, I'm reading it in the Hebrew. Not too much 234 00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:10,490 S3: into it. I'm reading it in the initial uh, with 235 00:13:10,490 --> 00:13:13,490 S3: the text is in the original language. And, uh, that's 236 00:13:13,490 --> 00:13:15,590 S3: so important not to read into it, but to read 237 00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:17,540 S3: it for what the text actually says. 238 00:13:17,540 --> 00:13:19,960 S1: Michael Ray Dolnick is professor of Jewish studies at Moody 239 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,590 S1: Bible Institute, joining us today on The land and the book. 240 00:13:24,820 --> 00:13:28,510 S1: Jeff Kinley is a best selling author and speaker whose 241 00:13:28,510 --> 00:13:32,110 S1: mission is to empower people with God's vintage truth, helping 242 00:13:32,110 --> 00:13:36,340 S1: them discern the times and to become influencers for Jesus Christ. 243 00:13:36,370 --> 00:13:39,370 S1: He's the author of 40 books and a frequent speaker 244 00:13:39,370 --> 00:13:43,410 S1: at churches and conferences. Our conversation today is based on 245 00:13:43,410 --> 00:13:46,679 S1: his new release, The End of the World According to 246 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,400 S1: Jesus of Nazareth. You intrigued? I am. Hey, welcome back 247 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,140 S1: to the land and the book, Jeff. 248 00:13:52,170 --> 00:13:53,610 S4: Thanks, John, so much. 249 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,949 S1: Well, seems to me that if we're quoting Jesus on 250 00:13:55,950 --> 00:13:59,610 S1: the End Times or any subject, we have the definitive 251 00:13:59,610 --> 00:14:02,819 S1: authority on the future. Why, then, do so many prophecy 252 00:14:02,850 --> 00:14:06,150 S1: discussions tend to veer away from the source? 253 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,809 S4: Well, I think part of it is just because people 254 00:14:08,809 --> 00:14:11,210 S4: think it's irrelevant, they kind of push it to the 255 00:14:11,210 --> 00:14:13,340 S4: end of their conversations. They're going to push it out 256 00:14:13,340 --> 00:14:15,050 S4: of their mind. No one wants to think about the 257 00:14:15,050 --> 00:14:17,360 S4: end of the world, that type of thing. And yet, 258 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,420 S4: with current events and with all this going on globally 259 00:14:20,420 --> 00:14:23,210 S4: and geopolitically, it's sort of hard to ignore these days. 260 00:14:23,210 --> 00:14:25,520 S4: So more and more people, I think, are waking up 261 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,590 S4: to the fact that we need to pay attention to 262 00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:30,110 S4: what Christ and the scriptures say about the end times. 263 00:14:30,140 --> 00:14:32,990 S1: It's easy, though, to get lost in the minutia, the details, 264 00:14:32,990 --> 00:14:35,750 S1: the imagery. And I think sometimes we do that as 265 00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:38,540 S1: opposed to the very thing you're doing here, putting a 266 00:14:38,540 --> 00:14:41,330 S1: spotlight on the end of the world according to Jesus. 267 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:42,260 S1: Your thoughts? 268 00:14:42,260 --> 00:14:44,300 S4: Yeah, exactly. I just wanted to write a book to 269 00:14:44,300 --> 00:14:47,090 S4: make sure that we heard from the Lord himself, and 270 00:14:47,090 --> 00:14:49,220 S4: really to be able to see the end times through 271 00:14:49,220 --> 00:14:52,910 S4: the eyes of Jesus Christ. I actually flew to Jerusalem 272 00:14:52,910 --> 00:14:55,780 S4: and just spent a time there researching, sitting on the 273 00:14:55,780 --> 00:14:58,660 S4: Mount of Olives, seeing what Christ would have seen at 274 00:14:58,690 --> 00:15:01,390 S4: that time. And, you know, it's interesting what Christ says. 275 00:15:01,390 --> 00:15:03,790 S4: Some of the things he says are very, very shocking 276 00:15:03,790 --> 00:15:07,630 S4: because people don't study these passages in depth, as you mentioned. 277 00:15:07,630 --> 00:15:09,340 S4: And so I think it's important for us to get 278 00:15:09,340 --> 00:15:12,160 S4: back to the basics to see exactly what Christ said. 279 00:15:12,190 --> 00:15:15,460 S1: Your book looks specifically at the Olivet Discourse. That's what 280 00:15:15,460 --> 00:15:18,729 S1: it's called recorded in Matthew's gospel. And some listeners might 281 00:15:18,730 --> 00:15:21,930 S1: be saying, the Olivet. What? What are we referring to here? 282 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:22,950 S5: Yeah, it. 283 00:15:22,950 --> 00:15:25,620 S4: Took place in the last week of Christ's earthly ministry. 284 00:15:25,650 --> 00:15:28,590 S4: Here it was on a Wednesday afternoon, late afternoon. Christ 285 00:15:28,590 --> 00:15:31,110 S4: took a couple of his disciples, sat down on the 286 00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:33,510 S4: Mount of Olives, and they had asked him earlier, Lord, 287 00:15:33,510 --> 00:15:36,240 S4: what's going to be the sign of your coming and 288 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,310 S4: of the end of the age? And so Christ basically 289 00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:41,340 S4: unpacks a lot of the book of revelation for us 290 00:15:41,340 --> 00:15:44,630 S4: in this Olivet Discourse. He wanted his disciples to know 291 00:15:44,630 --> 00:15:47,060 S4: and to be confident about what would take place in 292 00:15:47,060 --> 00:15:47,990 S4: the end times. 293 00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:52,340 S1: What Jesus own teachings reveal about the last days. That's 294 00:15:52,340 --> 00:15:55,310 S1: our topic here at the land and the book. I'm 295 00:15:55,310 --> 00:15:57,920 S1: John Geiger, joined today by Jeff Kinley, who has written 296 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,369 S1: The End of the World According to Jesus of Nazareth. 297 00:16:01,370 --> 00:16:04,520 S1: It seems like a remarkable book end that Christ would 298 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,580 S1: share so much about the end times and his ultimate 299 00:16:07,580 --> 00:16:11,330 S1: return from the very mountain where his feet will touch 300 00:16:11,330 --> 00:16:12,200 S1: your thoughts. 301 00:16:12,260 --> 00:16:15,380 S4: Yeah, exactly. Zechariah tells us that Christ is going to 302 00:16:15,380 --> 00:16:17,060 S4: come back and his feet are going to touch the 303 00:16:17,060 --> 00:16:19,820 S4: Mount of Olives. It's interesting because that's exactly where he 304 00:16:19,820 --> 00:16:23,240 S4: ascended from in acts chapter one. And the angel said 305 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,580 S4: this same Jesus will return in the same way. And 306 00:16:25,580 --> 00:16:28,250 S4: so as Christ was raptured up to heaven, the Bible 307 00:16:28,250 --> 00:16:30,860 S4: says he'll come back at the end of time in 308 00:16:30,860 --> 00:16:33,740 S4: revelation 19, and his feet will touch the Mount of 309 00:16:33,740 --> 00:16:37,670 S4: Olives that will split in half. Interesting, John. Geologists have 310 00:16:37,670 --> 00:16:40,910 S4: found a fault line running exactly through the Mount of 311 00:16:40,910 --> 00:16:44,150 S4: Olives that would split the Mount of Olives exactly as 312 00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:47,330 S4: Zechariah prophesied. So, you know, once again, we're ramping up, 313 00:16:47,330 --> 00:16:49,970 S4: accelerating toward those days, but we're not there yet. 314 00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:54,980 S1: You suggest that understanding Christ's words in their original context 315 00:16:54,980 --> 00:16:58,380 S1: offers insights that we might otherwise be missing. Give us 316 00:16:58,380 --> 00:16:59,160 S1: an example. 317 00:16:59,580 --> 00:17:02,310 S4: Yeah, exactly. One example would just be when Jesus talks 318 00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:04,980 S4: about it'll be like the days of Noah when he 319 00:17:04,980 --> 00:17:07,350 S4: returns and he goes on to say that that one 320 00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:09,510 S4: will be in the field and one will be taken, 321 00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:11,430 S4: the other will be left, two women will be grinding 322 00:17:11,430 --> 00:17:13,380 S4: at the mill, one will be taken, the other be left. 323 00:17:13,380 --> 00:17:16,680 S4: I think famously we've understood that as being the rapture 324 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,229 S4: there as being taken up in the rapture. But the 325 00:17:19,230 --> 00:17:22,640 S4: context in this passage points to those being taken. Being 326 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,820 S4: taken away in judgment and the saved are the ones 327 00:17:25,820 --> 00:17:28,910 S4: that are left behind to go into his millennial kingdom. 328 00:17:28,910 --> 00:17:31,700 S4: So there's a lot of misunderstanding. I think sometimes we 329 00:17:31,700 --> 00:17:34,370 S4: read what we want to hear in Christ's words, but 330 00:17:34,369 --> 00:17:38,630 S4: studying in its original Jewish context yields a greater understanding. 331 00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:41,630 S1: What's another insight that you picked up on as you 332 00:17:41,630 --> 00:17:45,980 S1: worked through the cultural context of Christ's Olivet discourse? Anything 333 00:17:45,980 --> 00:17:46,790 S1: come to mind? 334 00:17:47,180 --> 00:17:47,990 S5: Yeah, another one. 335 00:17:47,990 --> 00:17:51,889 S4: Was just, uh, Christ's illustration of the fig tree. He says, uh, 336 00:17:51,890 --> 00:17:54,859 S4: when the fig tree, uh, his branch becomes tender, you know, 337 00:17:54,859 --> 00:17:57,140 S4: it puts forth its leaves. You know that summer is near. 338 00:17:57,140 --> 00:18:00,110 S4: Even so, when you see all these things, recognize he 339 00:18:00,109 --> 00:18:02,720 S4: is at the door. And then he says, this generation 340 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,510 S4: will not pass away until all these things take place. And, 341 00:18:05,510 --> 00:18:08,380 S4: you know, again, typically people say, well, it's the generation 342 00:18:08,380 --> 00:18:11,260 S4: of when Israel becomes a nation again. So it must 343 00:18:11,260 --> 00:18:13,570 S4: be 40 years. And then that passed and then they 344 00:18:13,570 --> 00:18:15,580 S4: moved it up to 60 and the 80 years. But 345 00:18:15,580 --> 00:18:17,620 S4: I think in the context he's saying he's talking about 346 00:18:17,619 --> 00:18:21,970 S4: the tribulation generation because he says those who see these things, 347 00:18:21,970 --> 00:18:26,050 S4: these tribulation events happening, that generation will not pass away. 348 00:18:26,050 --> 00:18:28,270 S4: In other words, it's not going to go on indefinitely. 349 00:18:28,270 --> 00:18:31,590 S4: But there's a time stamp on the seven year tribulation. 350 00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:34,109 S4: And so Christ wanted them to know that these disciples 351 00:18:34,109 --> 00:18:37,260 S4: who will go through these, these hard times and the tribulation, 352 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:38,730 S4: that it won't last forever. 353 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,630 S1: Jeff Kinley is a best selling author and speaker whose 354 00:18:42,630 --> 00:18:45,629 S1: mission is to empower people to discern the times and 355 00:18:45,630 --> 00:18:49,080 S1: to become influencers for Jesus Christ. You know, I think 356 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,690 S1: we do need some influencers for Jesus Christ. We got 357 00:18:51,690 --> 00:18:54,720 S1: influencers for all kinds of 100 billion different things on 358 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:59,100 S1: social media, where the influencers for Christ, but I digress. 359 00:18:59,100 --> 00:19:01,740 S1: Jeff is the author of 40 books and is a 360 00:19:01,740 --> 00:19:04,739 S1: frequent speaker at churches and conferences. It's a pleasure to 361 00:19:04,740 --> 00:19:07,170 S1: talk with him today on the land and the book. 362 00:19:07,170 --> 00:19:11,490 S1: How do Christ's words in Matthew clarify what he requires 363 00:19:11,490 --> 00:19:12,720 S1: for our salvation? 364 00:19:13,619 --> 00:19:14,070 S5: Well, I think one. 365 00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:16,350 S4: Of the things he says, he talks about being prepared, 366 00:19:16,350 --> 00:19:19,169 S4: he talks about being alert. And certainly these are things 367 00:19:19,170 --> 00:19:21,880 S4: that every person needs to pay attention to. In fact, 368 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,639 S4: you know, some 41% of Americans believe we're living in 369 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,919 S4: the end times. And so as we see things ramp 370 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,740 S4: up towards these days that Christ spoke of, I think 371 00:19:29,740 --> 00:19:32,619 S4: there needs to be a self-inventory. And Jesus said, you 372 00:19:32,619 --> 00:19:35,590 S4: need to be prepared so that you can actually miss 373 00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:38,379 S4: this coming judgments that are coming on the earth. And 374 00:19:38,380 --> 00:19:42,160 S4: so Jesus points us to his crucifixion. And in chapter 375 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,880 S4: 26 and so we have this this, um, really cross 376 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,510 S4: centered narrative at the end of the Olivet Discourse afterwards. 377 00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:52,030 S4: And so Christ wants everyone to be prepared, but most 378 00:19:52,030 --> 00:19:53,770 S4: of all, he wants them to be saved. 379 00:19:53,770 --> 00:19:57,340 S1: Okay. Apart from being saved, which is the ultimate preparation, 380 00:19:57,340 --> 00:20:00,340 S1: do you think there is a single focus, a single 381 00:20:00,340 --> 00:20:04,450 S1: thing that many believers are overlooking and and therefore leaves 382 00:20:04,450 --> 00:20:06,550 S1: them unprepared or ill prepared? 383 00:20:06,970 --> 00:20:10,290 S4: I think the overarching thing, John, is just a lack 384 00:20:10,290 --> 00:20:13,470 S4: of biblical discernment today among Christians in the church. I mean, 385 00:20:13,470 --> 00:20:16,020 S4: there's Barna did a study where he found out that 386 00:20:16,020 --> 00:20:19,199 S4: less than 10% of Christians read their Bibles every day. 387 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,300 S4: And of course, you have a lot of self-help churches 388 00:20:21,300 --> 00:20:22,709 S4: and that type of thing that are going on. So 389 00:20:22,710 --> 00:20:25,080 S4: we're not really getting deep into the scriptures or even 390 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,540 S4: into the scriptures on a daily basis. So I would 391 00:20:27,540 --> 00:20:31,110 S4: say biblical discernment, because that feeds into everything we do, 392 00:20:31,109 --> 00:20:33,680 S4: how we live, how we view the world, humanity, our 393 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,280 S4: own lives, our mortality. And so discernment is very important. 394 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,860 S4: And that can't come unless we get into God's Word. 395 00:20:39,859 --> 00:20:42,530 S1: Lots of times, believers get caught up in the gloom 396 00:20:42,530 --> 00:20:45,379 S1: and doom that we see in future events, but that 397 00:20:45,380 --> 00:20:49,340 S1: you say that prophecy, specifically Christ's message in Matthew, is 398 00:20:49,340 --> 00:20:51,770 S1: designed to give us hope. Elaborate. 399 00:20:51,770 --> 00:20:52,670 S5: Yeah, it really does. 400 00:20:52,670 --> 00:20:55,130 S4: I mean, Christ tells us he's coming back at the end. 401 00:20:55,130 --> 00:20:57,520 S4: He's coming to set up his kingdom. He's coming to 402 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,369 S4: bring in a whole new world. And so for believers, 403 00:21:00,369 --> 00:21:02,920 S4: there's really nothing but hope in the future. We may 404 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,340 S4: go through hard times. Now, these tribulation believers may go 405 00:21:06,340 --> 00:21:08,410 S4: through hard times, but in the end, Christ is going 406 00:21:08,410 --> 00:21:11,440 S4: to reward them because he comes back as King Jesus 407 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,869 S4: to set the world right and to rule and reign 408 00:21:13,869 --> 00:21:15,310 S4: with justice and peace. 409 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,330 S1: But we can't be mere fact finders and collectors of 410 00:21:19,330 --> 00:21:23,439 S1: theological trinkets. In Matthew, Jesus calls us to get ready. 411 00:21:23,470 --> 00:21:26,650 S1: What's another way we can get ready for Christ's return? 412 00:21:27,250 --> 00:21:29,170 S4: I think one way the bride can get ready is 413 00:21:29,170 --> 00:21:32,380 S4: just to purify herself. You know, Jesus talked about the 414 00:21:32,380 --> 00:21:36,429 S4: rapture in John 14. First, John also tells us in 415 00:21:36,430 --> 00:21:39,189 S4: chapter three that anyone who has this hope of Christ's 416 00:21:39,190 --> 00:21:42,220 S4: return in them purifies himself, just like a bride gets 417 00:21:42,220 --> 00:21:45,570 S4: ready for a wedding event. So there's a sense of 418 00:21:45,570 --> 00:21:49,890 S4: personal internal preparation, our love for Christ, our devotion to him, 419 00:21:49,890 --> 00:21:52,680 S4: our passion for his mission as he mentioned earlier, to 420 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,280 S4: make disciples while we can, in the time that God's 421 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,129 S4: allotted to us, and so preparing ourselves, our hearts, and 422 00:21:59,130 --> 00:22:01,020 S4: also helping to prepare others. 423 00:22:01,020 --> 00:22:03,540 S1: Hey, thanks for being part of the land and the book. 424 00:22:03,540 --> 00:22:06,660 S1: I'm John Gager talking today with Jeff Kinley, who has 425 00:22:06,660 --> 00:22:10,640 S1: written The End of the World According to Jesus of Nazareth. Well, 426 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,730 S1: there's certainly no shortage of interest in end times events 427 00:22:13,730 --> 00:22:16,609 S1: in our day. Do you see this as largely working 428 00:22:16,609 --> 00:22:19,430 S1: for our good, or is there so much error and 429 00:22:19,430 --> 00:22:23,239 S1: emotional frenzy going on that we're actually doing ourselves a disservice? 430 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:24,500 S5: Well, I think the key. 431 00:22:24,500 --> 00:22:27,379 S4: Is to listen to trusted voices for each believer to 432 00:22:27,380 --> 00:22:30,320 S4: get into the word for him or herself, because, you know, 433 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,170 S4: there's a there's a lot of noise out there, a 434 00:22:32,170 --> 00:22:34,360 S4: lot of white noise about the end times. And so 435 00:22:34,540 --> 00:22:36,820 S4: that's why I wrote this book to hear exactly from 436 00:22:36,820 --> 00:22:39,310 S4: the mouth of Jesus Christ, what it's going to be 437 00:22:39,310 --> 00:22:41,020 S4: like and what he said we need to do. 438 00:22:41,050 --> 00:22:44,619 S1: You know, I think every every generation ebbs and flows 439 00:22:44,619 --> 00:22:47,379 S1: on things. There was a period of time, say, 30 440 00:22:47,380 --> 00:22:50,200 S1: years ago, 40 years ago, maybe prophecy was a huge thing. 441 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,320 S1: Then it cooled off. It's huge. Now there's another shift 442 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,060 S1: I'm seeing, and I'd like for you to say, nah, 443 00:22:55,060 --> 00:22:57,879 S1: I'm not seeing that. Or would you confirm it? There 444 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,940 S1: appears to me, anyway, to be a shift away from 445 00:23:00,940 --> 00:23:04,330 S1: a pre-tribulational view of Christ's return. What do you say? 446 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,710 S4: Well, there certainly is a camp in Christendom that goes 447 00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:10,750 S4: away from the pre-trib view. And I think part of 448 00:23:10,750 --> 00:23:13,240 S4: it is due to the fact that people think it's 449 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,030 S4: just a doctrine of escapism, or maybe it's a recent 450 00:23:16,030 --> 00:23:18,639 S4: doctrine of that type of thing. But what I'm seeing 451 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,389 S4: is more and more remnant believers. Really, not all the nation, 452 00:23:21,390 --> 00:23:23,880 S4: but all over the world begin to rise up and say, look, 453 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,040 S4: we need to find out what God's Word really says 454 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,070 S4: about this. And it's not about just getting out of 455 00:23:29,070 --> 00:23:32,550 S4: hard times. It's about escaping God's wrath. And so while 456 00:23:32,550 --> 00:23:34,800 S4: there are those out there, I think that would attack 457 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,480 S4: the preacher of rapture. In fact, John, I would say 458 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,929 S4: this is that the most attacked prophetic doctrine is the 459 00:23:39,930 --> 00:23:44,389 S4: pre-tribulational rapture really the fact that Christ rescues us before 460 00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:47,390 S4: we will be delivered from the wrath to come? And 461 00:23:47,390 --> 00:23:50,240 S4: for some reason it's a credit. There's a lot of vitriol, 462 00:23:50,450 --> 00:23:53,450 S4: anger about the pre-trib rapture. But but it's a it's 463 00:23:53,450 --> 00:23:55,909 S4: a doctrine of hope. I mean, Titus 213 calls it 464 00:23:55,910 --> 00:23:59,090 S4: our blessed hope. Uh, there's multiple passages all throughout the 465 00:23:59,090 --> 00:24:01,820 S4: New Testament that tell the early church to be eagerly 466 00:24:01,820 --> 00:24:06,020 S4: awaiting and anticipating to have that Maranatha spirit about Christ's 467 00:24:06,020 --> 00:24:08,439 S4: return at any moment. And that really is the doctrine 468 00:24:08,470 --> 00:24:11,050 S4: of imminency. And so I think that hope really gives 469 00:24:11,050 --> 00:24:14,409 S4: us a sense of purpose. A sense of motivation really 470 00:24:14,410 --> 00:24:16,840 S4: inspires us day by day, because we never know when 471 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,100 S4: Christ shall return. 472 00:24:18,130 --> 00:24:22,600 S1: Describe one small slice of prophetic events that sobers you 473 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,659 S1: the most, or maybe gives you the most chills. 474 00:24:25,780 --> 00:24:26,830 S5: Well, I think. 475 00:24:26,830 --> 00:24:29,020 S4: I was just in Belgium. I was just in Brussels. 476 00:24:29,020 --> 00:24:31,870 S4: I went to the European Union there and visited there 477 00:24:31,869 --> 00:24:35,200 S4: And such a dark place. I think globalism is one 478 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,959 S4: of the biggest dark movements that we see, sort of 479 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,840 S4: the storm clouds on the horizon. We see the world 480 00:24:40,930 --> 00:24:44,740 S4: coming together. It's shrinking together. Calls for world government, a 481 00:24:44,740 --> 00:24:48,610 S4: one world coalition of governments has never been more stronger 482 00:24:48,609 --> 00:24:51,160 S4: than it is right now. So that is something obviously, 483 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,600 S4: Daniel chapter two, chapter seven, revelation 1317. They all prophesy 484 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,810 S4: a one world government in the last days. And so 485 00:24:57,810 --> 00:25:00,900 S4: I think that's the thing I'm seeing happen along, of course, 486 00:25:00,900 --> 00:25:03,270 S4: with Israel, what's going on in Israel. But but sort 487 00:25:03,270 --> 00:25:05,700 S4: of an ominous cloud. I would point to a one world. 488 00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:06,570 S5: Government in. 489 00:25:06,570 --> 00:25:09,690 S1: 30s. How would you suggest we could be better students 490 00:25:09,690 --> 00:25:12,660 S1: of prophecy and best use resources like you've created? 491 00:25:13,140 --> 00:25:15,330 S4: Well, that's a great question. I would say, number one 492 00:25:15,330 --> 00:25:17,550 S4: is that we have to be serious about what God 493 00:25:17,550 --> 00:25:20,449 S4: says in His Word. God gave us 66 books of 494 00:25:20,450 --> 00:25:22,790 S4: the Bible, and he closed it with a book that 495 00:25:22,790 --> 00:25:26,510 S4: is 95% prophecy. So obviously God wants his people to 496 00:25:26,510 --> 00:25:29,540 S4: know what's going to happen. So dig into the word 497 00:25:29,540 --> 00:25:32,060 S4: for yourself, get into God's Word, let it get into you, 498 00:25:32,060 --> 00:25:35,389 S4: and then find some trusted voices, some scholarly voices on 499 00:25:35,390 --> 00:25:37,730 S4: prophecy that you can study so that you can be 500 00:25:37,730 --> 00:25:40,490 S4: confident and live with clarity and hope in these days. 501 00:25:40,490 --> 00:25:43,550 S1: Jeff, we always appreciate the content that you bring. Thank 502 00:25:43,550 --> 00:25:45,760 S1: you for being a part of the land in the book, John. 503 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,020 S4: My pleasure. God bless. 504 00:25:47,050 --> 00:25:49,420 S1: Don't go away. Charlie Dyer is back with a look 505 00:25:49,420 --> 00:25:51,669 S1: at your Bible questions, and I think you'll find the 506 00:25:51,670 --> 00:25:54,700 S1: answers quite stimulating. It's all ahead here on the land 507 00:25:54,700 --> 00:26:09,670 S1: and the book. Questions and answers. That's what this next 508 00:26:09,670 --> 00:26:12,609 S1: segment is all about. Welcome back to the land and 509 00:26:12,609 --> 00:26:15,520 S1: the book. Questions about something you've read in the Bible. 510 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,250 S1: Questions about something that has entered into your head as 511 00:26:18,250 --> 00:26:21,010 S1: you've pondered the greatness of our God. Questions about the 512 00:26:21,010 --> 00:26:24,369 S1: Middle East and prophecy. They're all welcome, all fair game, 513 00:26:24,369 --> 00:26:26,890 S1: and you'll probably hear some of all of those as 514 00:26:26,890 --> 00:26:29,170 S1: we chat ahead with our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer. Your 515 00:26:29,170 --> 00:26:31,270 S1: Bibles open, I see. Charlie. You ready for this? 516 00:26:31,270 --> 00:26:32,460 S2: I'm ready. John. 517 00:26:32,460 --> 00:26:35,070 S1: Well, first this thought, though Israel has been in the 518 00:26:35,070 --> 00:26:37,350 S1: news a lot over the past year. And of course, 519 00:26:37,350 --> 00:26:40,800 S1: the Bible is jam packed with end times prophecies about 520 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,010 S1: epic world events, the regathering of the Jewish people to 521 00:26:44,010 --> 00:26:47,490 S1: their ancient homeland. And and of course, Jesus soon returned. 522 00:26:47,490 --> 00:26:49,740 S1: So I think it's crucial for us as believers to 523 00:26:49,740 --> 00:26:53,730 S1: have a proper understanding of Bible prophecy. So our view 524 00:26:53,730 --> 00:26:57,409 S1: of the future is shaped by Scripture, not today's headlines. Right, Charlie? 525 00:26:57,410 --> 00:26:59,420 S2: That's right. John. And with this in mind, our friends 526 00:26:59,420 --> 00:27:02,540 S2: at Life and Messiah have published a book titled God, 527 00:27:02,540 --> 00:27:05,690 S2: Israel and Bible Prophecy, and they're offering it to listeners 528 00:27:05,690 --> 00:27:07,940 S2: of the land in the book for a limited time. 529 00:27:07,940 --> 00:27:11,450 S2: This informative book is focused on providing readers with a 530 00:27:11,450 --> 00:27:15,320 S2: deeper understanding and greater appreciation of what God has in 531 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,410 S2: store for Israel and the nations by digging into what 532 00:27:18,410 --> 00:27:21,580 S2: the scriptures say about these issues. Now, if you're interested 533 00:27:21,580 --> 00:27:25,119 S2: in learning more about what God has in store, visit 534 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,360 S2: Life in Messiah. Org and click on the Moody Radio 535 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,060 S2: button there to find out how you can receive your 536 00:27:31,060 --> 00:27:36,880 S2: copy of God, Israel and Bible Prophecy. That's life in messiah.org. 537 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,220 S1: And as we begin our Q and A segment today, 538 00:27:39,220 --> 00:27:41,350 S1: a couple of questions about Samuel, one of my favorite 539 00:27:41,350 --> 00:27:45,200 S1: Old Testament characters, Todd wants to know, should Samuel have 540 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,649 S1: been involved with a sacrifice at a high place mentioned 541 00:27:48,650 --> 00:27:50,120 S1: in first Samuel nine? 542 00:27:50,150 --> 00:27:52,730 S2: Well, and actually, I don't see a problem there. In fact, 543 00:27:52,730 --> 00:27:56,240 S2: in several cases, Samuel offered sacrifices at high places. I 544 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,970 S2: don't see a problem in any of them for two reasons. First, 545 00:27:58,970 --> 00:28:02,090 S2: there was no tabernacle at this time. It had apparently 546 00:28:02,090 --> 00:28:05,119 S2: been destroyed by the Philistines shortly after the battle where 547 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,550 S2: they captured the Ark of the covenant. That's in first 548 00:28:07,550 --> 00:28:10,300 S2: Samuel four and five. Uh, we know the different parts 549 00:28:10,300 --> 00:28:13,300 S2: of the tabernacle were scattered, probably at the same time. Uh, 550 00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:16,150 S2: the table of showbread, or Bread of the presence ended 551 00:28:16,150 --> 00:28:18,970 S2: up at Nob, just north of Jerusalem. That's first Samuel 552 00:28:18,970 --> 00:28:22,540 S2: 21 and the altar of sacrifice. And the tent itself 553 00:28:22,540 --> 00:28:25,150 S2: ended up at Gibeon. Uh, we know from First Kings 554 00:28:25,150 --> 00:28:28,389 S2: three and first Chronicles 21, now, without a central place 555 00:28:28,390 --> 00:28:31,690 S2: of worship, it appears that God did allow individuals to 556 00:28:31,690 --> 00:28:34,879 S2: worship at different locations, and a second reason, though, is 557 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,970 S2: in the larger context, it appears Samuel was acting under 558 00:28:37,970 --> 00:28:41,720 S2: God's authority and with God's blessing. You know, two chapters earlier, 559 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,080 S2: Samuel gathered all Israel to Mizpah. In first Samuel seven 560 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,120 S2: it says, he took a lamb, offered it as a whole, 561 00:28:47,150 --> 00:28:49,430 S2: burnt offering to the Lord. And he cried out to 562 00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:52,460 S2: the Lord on behalf of Israel. And the Lord answered him. 563 00:28:52,550 --> 00:28:55,670 S2: In response, God enabled Israel to defeat the Philistines. And 564 00:28:55,670 --> 00:28:59,229 S2: that chapter ends by describing the circuit traveled by Samuel 565 00:28:59,230 --> 00:29:02,020 S2: every year as a judge. At the end of each circuit, 566 00:29:02,020 --> 00:29:03,970 S2: he returned to his home in Ramah. And it says, 567 00:29:03,970 --> 00:29:06,700 S2: and he built an altar there to the Lord. In fact, 568 00:29:06,700 --> 00:29:08,830 S2: it's not presented as a negative action on his part, 569 00:29:08,830 --> 00:29:12,459 S2: but an affirmation that he was functioning as a godly judge. 570 00:29:12,460 --> 00:29:14,620 S2: And it was that altar and Rama, which was probably 571 00:29:14,620 --> 00:29:17,590 S2: the high place where he encountered Saul. In that passage 572 00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:19,240 S2: you're asking about in chapter nine. 573 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,320 S1: Quick question by way of follow up, was Samuel from 574 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:23,550 S1: the tribe of Levi? 575 00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:28,110 S2: Yeah. Fascinating question, actually, based on first Samuel one one, 576 00:29:28,110 --> 00:29:30,090 S2: people reading it would say, well, yeah, it looks like it. 577 00:29:30,090 --> 00:29:32,670 S2: You know, his father Elkanah, was from the tribe of Ephraim. 578 00:29:32,670 --> 00:29:34,380 S2: At least that's what it looks like, since it says 579 00:29:34,380 --> 00:29:37,770 S2: he was from the hill country of Ephraim. However, everything's 580 00:29:37,770 --> 00:29:41,670 S2: not as it might first appear. Apparently Elkanah was a 581 00:29:41,670 --> 00:29:44,850 S2: Levite whose family had been assigned a tribal allotment in 582 00:29:44,850 --> 00:29:48,630 S2: the general territory of Ephraim. Elkanah's hometown, which was later 583 00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:51,630 S2: said to be Samuel's hometown, was Ramah. Now and here's 584 00:29:51,630 --> 00:29:54,270 S2: why I say all this. In First Chronicles six, verses 585 00:29:54,270 --> 00:29:58,140 S2: 22 to 28, the writer traces the descendants of Kohath 586 00:29:58,140 --> 00:30:02,010 S2: down through several generations of individuals named Elkanah, until he 587 00:30:02,010 --> 00:30:05,250 S2: reaches Samuel and his two sons. Now that passage makes 588 00:30:05,250 --> 00:30:08,520 S2: it very clear Samuel was from the tribe of Levi 589 00:30:08,570 --> 00:30:10,730 S2: Through Levi's son, Kohath. 590 00:30:11,150 --> 00:30:13,550 S1: You're listening to the land and the book with our host, 591 00:30:13,550 --> 00:30:17,450 S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer. Questions and answers. Our theme. This segment, 592 00:30:17,450 --> 00:30:20,420 S1: David asks, Will the new earth that the Lord creates 593 00:30:20,420 --> 00:30:23,120 S1: after the thousand year reign of Christ, as stated in 594 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,590 S1: revelation 21, include a new land of Canaan or Promised 595 00:30:27,590 --> 00:30:30,950 S1: land based on the multiple times God promised the patriarchs 596 00:30:30,950 --> 00:30:34,330 S1: that he would give them the land for an everlasting possession, 597 00:30:34,330 --> 00:30:37,660 S1: it would seem to make that conclusion. Can you confirm 598 00:30:37,660 --> 00:30:39,400 S1: or maybe correct my thinking here? 599 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,170 S2: Yeah, I have to start by saying, I don't know 600 00:30:41,170 --> 00:30:43,570 S2: if the Bible provides us with enough information for a 601 00:30:43,570 --> 00:30:46,690 S2: definitive answer. So what I would tell my classes when 602 00:30:46,690 --> 00:30:48,400 S2: I was teaching is take this now with a grain 603 00:30:48,430 --> 00:30:52,120 S2: of salt. Peter describes in Second Peter three the new 604 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,310 S2: heavens and new earth. And he says, the heavens are 605 00:30:54,310 --> 00:30:56,860 S2: going to disappear. You know, the elements will be destroyed 606 00:30:56,860 --> 00:30:59,290 S2: by fire. The earth and everything in it laid bare. 607 00:30:59,290 --> 00:31:00,970 S2: And then he talks about, we'll look forward to a 608 00:31:00,970 --> 00:31:03,490 S2: new heaven and new earth, the home of righteousness. But 609 00:31:03,490 --> 00:31:06,489 S2: it sounds like the physical land of Israel. Indeed, the 610 00:31:06,490 --> 00:31:08,290 S2: physical land of all the earth is going to be 611 00:31:08,290 --> 00:31:12,640 S2: destroyed and replaced with something entirely new. The physical boundaries 612 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,820 S2: of the original land included, for example, on the west side, 613 00:31:15,820 --> 00:31:20,500 S2: the Mediterranean Sea. That's numbers 34 in Ezekiel 47 mentioned that, 614 00:31:20,500 --> 00:31:22,950 S2: but in the new heavens and new earth, it says 615 00:31:22,950 --> 00:31:25,650 S2: in revelation 21, there will no longer be a sea. 616 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,000 S2: So in essence, that western boundary disappears. So at the 617 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,130 S2: same time, I do believe God will continue to fulfill 618 00:31:32,130 --> 00:31:36,690 S2: his promises to all believers, Jewish and Gentile. Uh, we 619 00:31:36,690 --> 00:31:38,459 S2: don't know how all those details are going to work out, 620 00:31:38,460 --> 00:31:41,070 S2: but I would say in in the reality that God 621 00:31:41,070 --> 00:31:44,490 S2: is God, God keeps his promises. And I believe that. 622 00:31:44,490 --> 00:31:46,700 S2: And I believe the reality that when we get there, 623 00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:49,370 S2: we're going to understand it. It all makes perfect sense. 624 00:31:49,370 --> 00:31:53,210 S1: Math meets genealogy in this next question from David was 625 00:31:53,210 --> 00:31:57,260 S1: Abraham 58 years old when Noah died? I've never heard 626 00:31:57,260 --> 00:32:00,350 S1: anyone teach on the possibility that Abraham may have had 627 00:32:00,350 --> 00:32:04,460 S1: personal knowledge about Noah. Genesis nine states he lived 350 628 00:32:04,460 --> 00:32:07,520 S1: years after the flood. You count up the years listed 629 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,240 S1: in the genealogy of his first firstborn son, Shem to 630 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,410 S1: Abraham in Genesis 11. And I think it totals 292 years. 631 00:32:14,410 --> 00:32:15,310 S1: Your thoughts? 632 00:32:15,340 --> 00:32:19,420 S2: Yeah, and I love this. I love the the genealogies, 633 00:32:19,510 --> 00:32:22,180 S2: but I know the average person listening goes, what? I 634 00:32:22,180 --> 00:32:24,280 S2: can't figure that out. But here's what I would say. 635 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,710 S2: I think there was an overlap. I think the genealogies 636 00:32:26,710 --> 00:32:29,140 S2: can be tallied up in a certain way. But there's 637 00:32:29,140 --> 00:32:33,330 S2: one problem in Genesis 1126 when it says, after Terah 638 00:32:33,330 --> 00:32:36,420 S2: had lived 70 years, he became the father of Abraham, 639 00:32:36,420 --> 00:32:39,930 S2: Nahor and Haran. We tend to assume this is describing 640 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,080 S2: Terah's age when Abram was born, but I don't believe 641 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,590 S2: that's the case. Abram's likely listed first there because he 642 00:32:46,590 --> 00:32:48,810 S2: ends up becoming the focus of the whole story, but 643 00:32:48,810 --> 00:32:52,920 S2: there are several details that suggest he wasn't the firstborn son. 644 00:32:53,130 --> 00:32:56,400 S2: Though listed last, Terah's son Haran appears to be the 645 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,120 S2: oldest for two reasons. Other family connections make more sense 646 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,150 S2: if he's the firstborn. For example, his son lot was 647 00:33:03,150 --> 00:33:06,210 S2: old enough to apparently become his father's heir and travel 648 00:33:06,210 --> 00:33:09,720 S2: with Abram into the land, and also Haran's daughter Milcah 649 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,180 S2: was old enough to become the wife of Nahor, the 650 00:33:12,180 --> 00:33:16,350 S2: other brother of Abram. Uh, second. The other chronological details 651 00:33:16,350 --> 00:33:19,890 S2: suggest Abram wasn't the firstborn. Tara began having children at 652 00:33:19,890 --> 00:33:22,520 S2: the age of 70. It says in chapter 11 he 653 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,570 S2: died at the age of 205, in chapter 11, verse 32. 654 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,270 S2: Now Abram was 75 years old when he left Haran 655 00:33:29,270 --> 00:33:32,510 S2: to go to the Promised Land following Tara's death. That 656 00:33:32,510 --> 00:33:36,050 S2: means Tara was 130 when Abram was born. That's 60 657 00:33:36,050 --> 00:33:38,240 S2: years after the birth of his first son. So the 658 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,930 S2: bottom line if my calculations are correct, then Noah would 659 00:33:41,930 --> 00:33:45,350 S2: have died about six years after Abram was born. It's 660 00:33:45,350 --> 00:33:48,040 S2: still an overlap, but not the 58 years. 661 00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:50,890 S1: All right, here's a technical question. Stay with us. Mary 662 00:33:50,890 --> 00:33:55,060 S1: asks F.F. Bruce in the Tyndale Commentary on Romans, quotes 663 00:33:55,060 --> 00:33:58,630 S1: Calvin concerning Romans five, verses 14 through 20, that the 664 00:33:58,630 --> 00:34:01,930 S1: many can by no means be a minority, and he 665 00:34:01,930 --> 00:34:04,390 S1: quotes Calvin that the grace of Christ belongs to a 666 00:34:04,390 --> 00:34:08,680 S1: greater number than the condemnation contracted by the first man. 667 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,580 S1: Calvin reasoned that if Adam's fall had the effect of 668 00:34:11,580 --> 00:34:14,460 S1: producing the ruin of many, the grace of God is 669 00:34:14,460 --> 00:34:18,600 S1: much more efficacious in benefiting many, since, admittedly, Christ is 670 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,690 S1: much more powerful to save than Adam was to ruin. 671 00:34:21,690 --> 00:34:24,839 S1: How can that be? Does this mean that infant mortality 672 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,920 S1: or abortion caused the number of the elect to be greater? Otherwise, 673 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,830 S1: it seems that the vast majority of people don't belong 674 00:34:31,860 --> 00:34:34,569 S1: to the Lord. And Charlie, I'm confused. 675 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,900 S2: Well, yeah, it's a technical question. I would say, though 676 00:34:37,900 --> 00:34:40,719 S2: I don't think they were referring to abortions or other 677 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,030 S2: young children. What I do think is going on is 678 00:34:43,030 --> 00:34:46,240 S2: this those final words of Calvin that Bruce quotes. He 679 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,730 S2: really says if Adam's fall had the effect of producing 680 00:34:48,730 --> 00:34:51,190 S2: the ruin of many, the grace of God is much 681 00:34:51,190 --> 00:34:55,600 S2: more efficacious in benefiting many, since admittedly, Christ is much 682 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,819 S2: more powerful to save than Adam was to ruin. So 683 00:34:58,820 --> 00:35:01,370 S2: he's really saying it's greater in the sense that getting 684 00:35:01,370 --> 00:35:04,550 S2: ruined people saved is much more difficult than getting innocent 685 00:35:04,550 --> 00:35:07,250 S2: people ruined, which is what Adam did. The second, though 686 00:35:07,250 --> 00:35:09,589 S2: I'm not sure either one would contradict the words of 687 00:35:09,590 --> 00:35:12,410 S2: Jesus in Matthew seven. They both were very committed to 688 00:35:12,410 --> 00:35:15,830 S2: the scriptures, and in Matthew seven Jesus said, why does 689 00:35:15,830 --> 00:35:17,989 S2: the gate broad is the way that leads to destruction, 690 00:35:17,989 --> 00:35:20,510 S2: and many enter there. But small is the gate, and 691 00:35:20,510 --> 00:35:22,670 S2: narrow the road that leads to life, and only a 692 00:35:22,670 --> 00:35:23,570 S2: few find it. 693 00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:26,120 S1: Greg says I saw an article on a discovery in 694 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,800 S1: Egypt called the El Arish Stone that was discovered in 1887. 695 00:35:30,830 --> 00:35:34,100 S1: The article said the stone included detailed references to the 696 00:35:34,100 --> 00:35:37,700 S1: Exodus written from the perspective of the pharaoh. Does this 697 00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:40,850 S1: discovery prove the biblical account of the Exodus? 698 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,880 S2: Well, there's a group called the associates for Biblical Research 699 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,379 S2: that have really debunked this piece of evidence, along with 700 00:35:46,380 --> 00:35:49,890 S2: several other so-called pieces of evidence. Now, since the associates 701 00:35:49,890 --> 00:35:52,740 S2: for Biblical Research is a conservative group, they hold to 702 00:35:52,739 --> 00:35:56,580 S2: a literal early exodus. I take their criticism seriously. That 703 00:35:56,580 --> 00:35:58,799 S2: article can be found at their website. So if you 704 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,700 S2: go to associates for Biblical Research, search for Debunking the 705 00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:06,450 S2: Exodus Decoded. I do believe in a literal early Exodus, 706 00:36:06,450 --> 00:36:09,090 S2: but just like this organization, I want to make sure 707 00:36:09,090 --> 00:36:12,370 S2: we guard against uncritically believing, as we might call it today, 708 00:36:12,370 --> 00:36:15,700 S2: fake news, even when it appears to support what we 709 00:36:15,700 --> 00:36:16,780 S2: really believe. 710 00:36:16,780 --> 00:36:19,810 S1: Well, maybe all these questions you've heard today have spurred 711 00:36:19,810 --> 00:36:22,030 S1: within you a desire to get an answer to something 712 00:36:22,030 --> 00:36:24,700 S1: that's been kind of nagging at you. You can easily 713 00:36:24,700 --> 00:36:27,520 S1: do that if you'll email us the land and the 714 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:34,490 S1: book@moody.edu is how you connect the land and the book@moody.edu. 715 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,490 S1: As always, when you're writing, we love hearing you share 716 00:36:37,489 --> 00:36:40,250 S1: how God has used the program in your life. Nothing 717 00:36:40,250 --> 00:36:43,130 S1: wrong with letting us know that. Thank you for doing that. 718 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,549 S1: Up next, Charlie's devotional. It's our fourth and final segment. 719 00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:48,739 S1: You don't want to miss it. More to come here 720 00:36:48,739 --> 00:37:04,540 S1: on Moody Radio's The Land and the book. Here at 721 00:37:04,540 --> 00:37:06,820 S1: the land of the book. We love getting your email, 722 00:37:06,820 --> 00:37:09,310 S1: your thoughts about the program, how it impacts you and 723 00:37:09,310 --> 00:37:11,500 S1: you can connect any time. By the way, at the 724 00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:15,880 S1: land and the book@moody.edu. John Gager hanging out with our 725 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,430 S1: host Charlie Dyer and Charlie. One of the comments that 726 00:37:18,430 --> 00:37:20,799 S1: we hear, I think more often than anything else is 727 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,969 S1: how much people appreciate your devotionals. In this fourth segment, 728 00:37:23,969 --> 00:37:27,210 S1: you've got an interesting new series you're starting today. Tell 729 00:37:27,210 --> 00:37:27,870 S1: us about it. 730 00:37:27,870 --> 00:37:29,940 S2: I do, I want to start a five week series. 731 00:37:29,940 --> 00:37:32,700 S2: I'm calling the famous 3/16 of the Bible. 732 00:37:32,700 --> 00:37:35,610 S1: 3/16 of the Bible. We'll get to the first of 733 00:37:35,610 --> 00:37:38,310 S1: those after this Holy Land experience. 734 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,340 S6: Hi, my name is Patty and I'm here in the 735 00:37:44,340 --> 00:37:47,299 S6: Holy Land. And I think what struck me the most 736 00:37:47,300 --> 00:37:50,600 S6: was how small Israel is, but how safe I felt 737 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:55,609 S6: and how Doctor Dyer took us around the Sea of Galilee. 738 00:37:55,790 --> 00:37:58,939 S6: And I think the most wonderful moment for me was 739 00:37:58,940 --> 00:38:03,530 S6: coming into Jerusalem. And our driver played the song Oh 740 00:38:03,530 --> 00:38:08,330 S6: Holy City. And for me, that was my big moment, 741 00:38:08,330 --> 00:38:11,180 S6: because I'd been praying about it for a year. 742 00:38:11,420 --> 00:38:14,690 S7: This is Randall, and this is my second time in Israel. 743 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:19,040 S7: What has fascinated me on this trip is to be 744 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:24,890 S7: in a country of Judaism and Arabic community. And the gospel, 745 00:38:24,890 --> 00:38:28,819 S7: I think, is preached more times here per square foot 746 00:38:28,820 --> 00:38:32,270 S7: in a single day than anywhere else in the world. 747 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,010 S7: For it to be a non-Christian country, if you consider 748 00:38:36,010 --> 00:38:40,720 S7: all of the church groups, Bible groups, busloads of tourists 749 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,590 S7: and guides that talk about Jesus Christ throughout the day 750 00:38:44,590 --> 00:38:47,590 S7: in this country in all points of the country, it 751 00:38:47,590 --> 00:38:48,580 S7: is amazing. 752 00:38:50,410 --> 00:38:53,170 S1: I'm looking forward to today's thought. You're taking us to 753 00:38:53,170 --> 00:38:56,710 S1: the book of Jeremiah for the first of your sixteens. 754 00:38:56,710 --> 00:39:00,120 S2: That's right John, we all know John 316, but there 755 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,879 S2: are a number of other fascinating verses with that same 756 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,850 S2: street address, so to speak, in other books of the Bible. 757 00:39:05,850 --> 00:39:07,830 S2: My goal is to take you on a journey of 758 00:39:07,830 --> 00:39:11,250 S2: discovery into some of those other destinations over the next 759 00:39:11,250 --> 00:39:14,820 S2: several weeks. Today's journey finds us in Jerusalem. At the 760 00:39:14,820 --> 00:39:17,940 S2: time of the prophet Jeremiah. Jeremiah is often called the 761 00:39:17,940 --> 00:39:21,870 S2: weeping prophet because he talks about his eyes overflowing with tears, 762 00:39:21,870 --> 00:39:24,050 S2: and he had a lot to cry about. He was 763 00:39:24,050 --> 00:39:25,969 S2: one of the prophets sent by God to the nation 764 00:39:25,969 --> 00:39:29,900 S2: of Judah to announce its destruction because of sin. Jeremiah 765 00:39:29,900 --> 00:39:32,689 S2: desperately called on the people to repent and turn back 766 00:39:32,690 --> 00:39:36,859 S2: to God. Sadly, they rejected God, his message, and the 767 00:39:36,860 --> 00:39:40,370 S2: prophet who delivered it. In chapter three, we find Jeremiah 768 00:39:40,370 --> 00:39:45,110 S2: wandering the streets of Jerusalem, announcing God's final warning return 769 00:39:45,110 --> 00:39:48,830 S2: faithless Israel, declares the Lord. The nation had wandered far 770 00:39:48,830 --> 00:39:51,469 S2: from God, and he was calling on them to reverse 771 00:39:51,469 --> 00:39:54,770 S2: course and come back before it was too late. In 772 00:39:54,770 --> 00:39:57,830 S2: calling on the people to repent, Jeremiah begins to paint 773 00:39:57,830 --> 00:40:00,350 S2: a picture of hope and blessing for those in the 774 00:40:00,350 --> 00:40:03,590 S2: future who come back to the Lord. God promises to 775 00:40:03,590 --> 00:40:05,839 S2: bring a remnant back to Zion and to give them 776 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,630 S2: shepherds after my own heart, who will lead you with 777 00:40:08,630 --> 00:40:13,089 S2: knowledge and understanding. As Jeremiah gazes with prophetic eyes into 778 00:40:13,090 --> 00:40:17,740 S2: the future, he utters his famous 316 in those days 779 00:40:17,739 --> 00:40:20,589 S2: when your numbers have increased greatly in the land, declares 780 00:40:20,590 --> 00:40:23,350 S2: the Lord, men will no longer say, the ark of 781 00:40:23,350 --> 00:40:25,780 S2: the covenant of the Lord. It will never enter their 782 00:40:25,780 --> 00:40:28,960 S2: minds or be remembered. It will not be missed, nor 783 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,379 S2: will another one be made. And there it is. Jeremiah 784 00:40:32,380 --> 00:40:36,790 S2: 316 and his prediction about the Ark of the covenant. Now, 785 00:40:36,790 --> 00:40:39,310 S2: I suspect some of you are already starting to hum 786 00:40:39,310 --> 00:40:42,190 S2: the theme song for Raiders of the Lost Ark, but 787 00:40:42,190 --> 00:40:45,910 S2: Jeremiah's real life prediction is more exciting than even the 788 00:40:45,910 --> 00:40:49,719 S2: Hollywood magic of Steven Spielberg. To set the stage, let's 789 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,540 S2: briefly review the history of the Ark of the Covenant 790 00:40:52,540 --> 00:40:55,780 S2: on Mount Sinai. God himself gave Moses the plans for 791 00:40:55,780 --> 00:40:59,090 S2: the Tabernacle. And included in those plans was this gold 792 00:40:59,090 --> 00:41:02,719 S2: covered box, or ark, with its mercy seat cover, guarded 793 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,960 S2: by two golden cherubim. And above the ark is where 794 00:41:05,989 --> 00:41:10,669 S2: God's Shekinah glory dwelt, displaying his visible presence among his people. 795 00:41:10,700 --> 00:41:13,400 S2: The Ark was inside the Holy of Holies when the 796 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,130 S2: children of Israel moved through the desert and the tabernacle 797 00:41:16,130 --> 00:41:20,270 S2: was disassembled, the ark was not on display in numbers four. 798 00:41:20,270 --> 00:41:24,110 S2: God gave specific commands for its transport. In verse five, 799 00:41:24,110 --> 00:41:26,330 S2: the priests were to first take down the veil to 800 00:41:26,330 --> 00:41:28,850 S2: the Holy of Holies and cover the ark with it. 801 00:41:28,850 --> 00:41:31,580 S2: Then the kohathites were to carry it using the poles 802 00:41:31,580 --> 00:41:34,640 S2: attached to the side. And in verse 20 God adds 803 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,330 S2: another stern reminder. But the kohathites must not go in 804 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,820 S2: to look at the holy things, even for a moment, 805 00:41:40,820 --> 00:41:44,570 S2: or they will die. That reminder helps explain a sad 806 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,290 S2: tale during the time of Samuel, the sons of Eli, 807 00:41:47,290 --> 00:41:50,380 S2: the high priest, carried the ark into battle with the Philistines, 808 00:41:50,380 --> 00:41:53,319 S2: and it was captured everywhere it went. God sent his 809 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,770 S2: judgment on the Philistine cities. The Philistines eventually sent it 810 00:41:56,770 --> 00:41:59,020 S2: back to Israel, and it came to the town of 811 00:41:59,020 --> 00:42:02,710 S2: Beit Shemesh when it first arrived. First Samuel six says, 812 00:42:02,710 --> 00:42:05,110 S2: when the people looked up and saw the ark, they 813 00:42:05,110 --> 00:42:08,410 S2: rejoiced at the sight. But the joyous event had a 814 00:42:08,410 --> 00:42:11,340 S2: tragic ending. God struck down some of the men of 815 00:42:11,340 --> 00:42:14,310 S2: Beit Shemesh, putting 70 of them to death because they 816 00:42:14,310 --> 00:42:17,130 S2: had looked into the Ark of the Lord. And we 817 00:42:17,130 --> 00:42:19,529 S2: might think God was being a bit harsh here after all. 818 00:42:19,530 --> 00:42:21,870 S2: Maybe they were just checking to make sure the Philistines 819 00:42:21,870 --> 00:42:24,660 S2: hadn't taken anything out of the ark. But a more 820 00:42:24,660 --> 00:42:28,140 S2: detailed study leads to a very different conclusion. Who were 821 00:42:28,140 --> 00:42:31,290 S2: these men of Beit Shemesh who looked into the ark? 822 00:42:31,290 --> 00:42:35,690 S2: In Joshua 2116, the city of Beit Shemesh was assigned 823 00:42:35,690 --> 00:42:38,930 S2: to the descendants of Aaron the priest. These were the 824 00:42:38,930 --> 00:42:42,620 S2: very people to whom God had given detailed instructions on 825 00:42:42,620 --> 00:42:45,350 S2: how to handle the Ark and the other items of furniture. 826 00:42:45,380 --> 00:42:49,910 S2: They deliberately disobeyed God, and he judged them for that disobedience. 827 00:42:49,940 --> 00:42:52,370 S2: The Ark eventually made its way into Jerusalem at the 828 00:42:52,370 --> 00:42:55,040 S2: time of King David, and into the Holy of Holies 829 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:59,120 S2: in the new temple built by David's son, Solomon. But 830 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,330 S2: all was not well jumping forward in history, we come 831 00:43:02,330 --> 00:43:06,110 S2: to the time of King Manasseh. Second Chronicles 33 records 832 00:43:06,110 --> 00:43:09,649 S2: his idolatrous reign in short statements that must have seemed 833 00:43:09,650 --> 00:43:13,250 S2: like spiritual gut punches to the righteous remnant in Judah. 834 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,130 S2: He built pagan altars in the temple of the Lord. 835 00:43:16,130 --> 00:43:18,590 S2: In both courts of the temple he built altars to 836 00:43:18,590 --> 00:43:21,620 S2: all the starry hosts. He took the carved image he 837 00:43:21,620 --> 00:43:24,400 S2: made and put it in God's temple. Though I can't 838 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,770 S2: prove it, I suspect this was when the Ark of 839 00:43:26,770 --> 00:43:30,040 S2: the covenant was spirited out of the temple by faithful 840 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:34,120 S2: priests to keep it from being desecrated. Good King Josiah 841 00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,080 S2: eventually followed Manasseh and his equally wicked son Ammon to 842 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,290 S2: the throne, and he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem. 843 00:43:41,290 --> 00:43:45,100 S2: Of all the high places. Asherah poles carved idols and 844 00:43:45,100 --> 00:43:48,180 S2: cast images, and to repair the temple of the Lord 845 00:43:48,180 --> 00:43:51,989 S2: and his actions help explain an otherwise obscure verse in 846 00:43:51,989 --> 00:43:56,129 S2: Second Chronicles 35. Put the sacred ark in the temple 847 00:43:56,130 --> 00:43:58,860 S2: that Solomon's son of David, King of Israel, built. It 848 00:43:58,860 --> 00:44:02,310 S2: is not to be carried about on your shoulders. Apparently 849 00:44:02,310 --> 00:44:04,739 S2: the Ark of the covenant had been carried about from 850 00:44:04,739 --> 00:44:08,190 S2: place to place, like a fugitive seeking to avoid capture, 851 00:44:08,190 --> 00:44:10,230 S2: but now it was to be put back in its 852 00:44:10,230 --> 00:44:13,640 S2: rightful place. And that's the last mention of the original 853 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,610 S2: Ark of the covenant made by Moses. So what happened 854 00:44:16,610 --> 00:44:20,990 S2: to it? Ezekiel offers a clue. While in captivity in Babylon, 855 00:44:20,989 --> 00:44:23,569 S2: Ezekiel had a vision in which he saw the glory 856 00:44:23,570 --> 00:44:26,000 S2: of the Lord move to the threshold of the temple. 857 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,060 S2: It then stopped briefly at the east gate before departing 858 00:44:29,060 --> 00:44:32,390 S2: from Jerusalem by way of the Mount of Olives. Once 859 00:44:32,390 --> 00:44:35,270 S2: God's glory departed from the city, the Ark of the 860 00:44:35,270 --> 00:44:39,320 S2: covenant was nothing more than a gold covered box. So 861 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,530 S2: what happened to the Ark? Well, theories abound. It's buried 862 00:44:42,530 --> 00:44:45,650 S2: under the temple. It's hidden in the wilderness. Or somewhere 863 00:44:45,650 --> 00:44:50,570 S2: in Jordan. It's in Ethiopia. It's in a warehouse in Washington, DC. 864 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,660 S2: I believe it was taken along with the other temple 865 00:44:53,660 --> 00:44:57,530 S2: treasures to Babylon, where it was likely destroyed and melted down. 866 00:44:57,530 --> 00:45:01,270 S2: And that's why God gave this message to Jeremiah. In 867 00:45:01,270 --> 00:45:04,149 S2: future years, they won't need or try to remake or 868 00:45:04,150 --> 00:45:06,970 S2: even remember the Ark of the covenant. It won't be 869 00:45:06,969 --> 00:45:09,760 S2: needed in God's ultimate plan. And that's why in the 870 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:13,330 S2: Holy of Holies at the time of Jesus, as Josephus wrote, 871 00:45:13,330 --> 00:45:16,900 S2: there was nothing at all. It was gone. So what 872 00:45:16,900 --> 00:45:20,050 S2: does Jeremiah 316 and the Ark of the covenant have 873 00:45:20,050 --> 00:45:22,330 S2: to do with us today? Well, first I see a 874 00:45:22,330 --> 00:45:26,100 S2: lesson on the importance of obedience. God gave instructions on 875 00:45:26,100 --> 00:45:28,440 S2: how the ark was to be handled, and he held 876 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,980 S2: those to whom he gave those instructions accountable to obey. 877 00:45:32,010 --> 00:45:35,640 S2: God's word isn't just a book of suggestions. It contains 878 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,240 S2: instructions from a holy God explaining how his followers need 879 00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,090 S2: to live to honor him. But I see a second 880 00:45:42,090 --> 00:45:45,900 S2: lesson in the promise God gave in Jeremiah 316. And 881 00:45:45,900 --> 00:45:49,400 S2: that's the importance of distinguishing between the symbol and the 882 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,240 S2: reality it represents. The ark was a visible reminder of 883 00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,660 S2: God's presence among his people, but it was God's presence 884 00:45:56,660 --> 00:45:59,870 S2: that made it important. When God's glory departed from the 885 00:45:59,870 --> 00:46:02,690 S2: temple in Jerusalem, the ark became nothing more than a 886 00:46:02,690 --> 00:46:06,860 S2: gold box. Jeremiah 316 was a reminder to look beyond 887 00:46:06,860 --> 00:46:10,640 S2: the physical symbol, to realize the reality was God's presence 888 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,120 S2: above the box that made it truly significant. The Ark 889 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,120 S2: won't be needed in the future, because God's glory in 890 00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,570 S2: the incarnate presence of His Son will be there. And 891 00:46:20,570 --> 00:46:24,320 S2: when we see Jesus, that old gold covered box just 892 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:25,940 S2: won't be that important. 893 00:46:25,969 --> 00:46:29,720 S1: Thank you. Charlie. The first of 3/16 of the Bible. 894 00:46:29,750 --> 00:46:33,320 S1: Interesting insights. Time always goes by too quickly. But before 895 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:34,969 S1: we go, I'd like to point you to our website 896 00:46:34,969 --> 00:46:37,239 S1: where you can hear the whole program again or share 897 00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,240 S1: it as a podcast with a friend. You know, that website, 898 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:44,980 S1: the Land and the book.org? That's the land and the 899 00:46:44,980 --> 00:46:48,790 S1: book org. We'll be back next week, Lord willing, with 900 00:46:48,790 --> 00:46:51,400 S1: another edition of The Land and the book, a production 901 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,150 S1: of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.