S1: What you pay attention to, you become. So do you
S1: want to become the things you're paying attention to online,
S1: or do you want to become more like your Lord Jesus,
S1: or do you want to become a better dad, or
S1: a better mom, or a better spouse? Because that's what
S1: you need to pay attention to.
S2: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times best seller, The Five Love Languages
S2: in Today's World of constant hurry and distraction, it can
S2: be difficult to focus on what's important. Author and speaker
S2: Paul Angoni wants to help you pay attention to your life.
S3: Paul wants to help you embrace the life changing practice
S3: of listening to your day. We'll talk about it straight
S3: ahead on this summer. Best of broadcast. Find out more
S3: at building relationships.us. Here's an observation as we begin. Gary,
S3: you seem to have learned early on in life how
S3: to pay attention, which is partly about listening. Well. How
S3: did you learn that practice?
S4: Chris, that's a question I've never been asked. How did
S4: I learn to do that? Uh, no. I am very
S4: much into the moment. You know, my wife has a saying.
S4: Wherever you are, be all there. Yes, and I've tried
S4: to follow that through the years. You know, if I'm
S4: counseling a couple, they have my full attention for the
S4: time that I'm with them, and I try to be
S4: sensitive to people around me as I walk out of
S4: a restaurant. You know, if I see somebody, I don't
S4: even know them. But I might make a comment about
S4: how wonderful the food looks or hope you leave something
S4: here for me. Or, you know, just I just enjoy,
S4: you know, interfacing with people. And, uh, I guess my parents,
S4: neither one of them were quite like that. But I
S4: think it's it's been a growing thing, too, because I'm
S4: not by by nature, I'm not an extrovert by any means. Right.
S4: You know, when you pay attention to people around you,
S4: they'll almost always respond in a positive way. Because in
S4: our world, especially today, we're not talking to people. We're
S4: not interfacing. We're just each doing our own thing. Even
S4: in the airplanes, they don't talk anymore. In airplanes, most
S4: people just sit there, you know?
S3: Yeah. You know, the the observation I have about you
S3: and the folks listening don't know this. When we do
S3: a Dear Gary broadcast and we play the questions for
S3: Doctor Chapman, it is the first time he's hearing them.
S3: He he doesn't hear these ahead of time. When we
S3: record it, that's when he hears it the first time
S3: and he will pick up on things. And I've probably
S3: heard him 4 or 5 times. He will pick up
S3: on things in the question that he responds to and
S3: remembers and addresses, because he listens so well. So I
S3: think there's a part of a spiritual gift. It's part
S3: intentionality on your part, but it's also part of the
S3: way that God has made you to really listen well.
S3: Which leads right into our guest today. He's one of
S3: the nation's sought after voices to young professionals, people going
S3: through change in transition, and those who want to live intentionally.
S3: He's the best selling author of 101 secrets for Your
S3: 20s and 25 lies. 20 somethings Need to Stop Believing.
S3: He has a master's degree in organizational Leadership, and his
S3: new book is our featured resource. Paul and Johnny has
S3: written Listen to Your Day The life Changing Practice of
S3: paying Attention. Find out more at building relationships.us.
S4: Well, Paul, welcome back to Building Relationships.
S1: Oh, thank you so much. It's an honor to be here.
S1: You know.
S4: Last time you were here, you talked about millennials and
S4: some of the struggles that they're up against in today's world.
S4: But you're encouraging every age to learn to pay attention, right?
S1: Yeah. That's correct. Yeah. I wrote my initial books, you know,
S1: 101 secrets for 2025 lies, 20 somethings, Stop believing. Because
S1: I basically I felt like such a failure in my 20s.
S1: It was a real struggle. In my 20s, I became
S1: passionate about that specific decade of life. And how do
S1: you do it? Well, well, that was the same with
S1: this new book. Listen to your day. The life changing
S1: practice of paying attention is I felt like I was
S1: failing at my ability to pay attention to what's important. Yeah,
S1: I felt like I was really losing the skill set
S1: and the art of paying attention.
S4: Well, so is that what got you interested in this
S4: topic and writing this book?
S1: Yeah, it really was. You know, and I think for
S1: many of us, you know, just even that that setting
S1: on your phone, I don't know if anybody has the
S1: setup where it tells you at the end of the
S1: week how much time you've spent on your phone. Uh,
S1: it was really quite alarming for me where, you know,
S1: I would look at it and it would say five, six,
S1: seven hours a day that I was spending looking at
S1: my phone. And obviously we can be distracted by lots
S1: of things. You know, it's not just our phones, but
S1: obviously in today's age, you know, that's one of the
S1: biggest distractions. And I felt like I was I was
S1: really losing that intentionality of my attention, and I was
S1: missing so much of what was going on right in
S1: front of me to where, you know, I couldn't even
S1: focus for five minutes to read a book, which is
S1: hard when you're an author, and then you need to
S1: write a book that becomes even more difficult process. So
S1: I really had to I really had to live what
S1: I was researching, what I was writing. I had to
S1: live that so that I could write this book.
S4: Yeah. So you say that our whole lives are influenced
S4: by what we pay attention to. So what do you
S4: mean by that? And can you give us some examples?
S1: Yeah. You know, and a great example is, you know,
S1: what we would call an expert. You know, I think
S1: an expert is a great example of somebody who has
S1: paid attention to something to a, to a focused extent
S1: more than anybody else. You know, an expert doesn't have
S1: to be who's just, you know, way more hyper intellectual
S1: than the rest of us. No, I think it's the opposite.
S1: I think they've just chosen to focus in on something, uh,
S1: with a heightened, focused intensity because they're passionate about it,
S1: because they really care about it. You know, that's that's you,
S1: Doctor Chapman. You focused in on relationships because.
S5: You're.
S1: Passionate about it. And so you're an expert at that
S1: because you've just given it your focused attention. And, you know,
S1: that's what a doctor is. You know, a doctor doesn't
S1: just become a doctor overnight. They literally become what they've
S1: been paying attention to for years and studying. And really,
S1: we really hope that our doctor has done a good
S1: job at paying attention to that. Uh, when they're opening
S1: us up for surgery, we hope they've really focused their attention. Well, correct.
S1: You know, and that's the same for all of us.
S1: You know, we have to we have to focus our
S1: attention and then we start becoming what we're paying attention to. Yeah.
S1: You know, so if all we're paying attention to is
S1: the headlines on Twitter, you know, we're we're going to
S1: become what those headlines are. And I think that can
S1: be a scary thing for many of us.
S4: I think many of our listeners can agree with what
S4: you're saying, likely seeing it in ourselves, to be sure.
S4: Now talk about the term that you used or one
S4: term you used. Obsessive comparison disorder. What is that and
S4: how does it affect our attention?
S1: Yeah, that's it's a it's one I coined years ago
S1: back in 101 secrets for Your 20s. And I just
S1: see it as such a problem in today's age. You know,
S1: you used to have to go to your ten year
S1: reunion or 20 year reunion, right? And that's when you
S1: would be buddy up and down to see who's who's
S1: doing better than whom. But you just had to fake
S1: it for one night, you know, lose some weight, get
S1: a toupee, rent a BMW, you know, whatever it took
S1: just to fake it, that you were, uh, you know,
S1: you were a success, that you were doing something great
S1: with your life. Uh, you know, snapshotted images, those edited
S1: and filtered images with everybody else. And we're obsessively doing this,
S1: you know, at the back of a line or waiting
S1: in an airplane or an elevator, you know, any awkward, boring,
S1: quiet moment where maybe we would even prayed in the past,
S1: you know, please, Lord, help me in this situation or
S1: talking to the Lord. Now we're replacing it with our
S1: phone and pulling up all these images and obsessively comparing ourselves.
S1: And man, how damaging is that to our peace? To
S1: our well-being.
S4: That's for sure. Well, you know, I spend a lot
S4: of my time reflecting on the five love languages because
S4: that concept has so changed my life and the lives
S4: of a lot of my counselees, and as well as
S4: millions of people who have, you know, gotten the concept.
S4: But I'm sitting here thinking that whole concept relies on
S4: the ability to pay attention to others and to yourself, right?
S1: Yeah, it's so important. And in my book, Listen to
S1: Your Day, I focus about four chapters on the topic
S1: of relationships, and I talk about your book, Doctor Chapman,
S1: because it is so important, I think, that the love
S1: languages have been so revolutionary for so many of us.
S1: But it really does start with that. That first ability
S1: of am I paying proper attention to the person across
S1: from me? Because really, it's hard to enact those love languages.
S1: It's hard to notice them if you're not paying attention
S1: to that person. And how do you how do you
S1: enact that love language if you if you're not there
S1: in the moment and seeing and hearing what they're going
S1: through so that you can then figure out, okay, I
S1: this is when that love language needs to come in.
S1: This is the time. This is the place. Because I'm
S1: paying attention to that moment. And if we're not, man,
S1: it's really hard. It's really hard to love anybody. Well,
S1: if you're not paying attention to them.
S4: You know, one of the ways that you can pay
S4: attention in relationships is to listen well to the other person.
S4: Can you give us some some tips on how to
S4: do that?
S1: I think we can all relate that. Maybe we don't
S1: listen as well as we think we do. Um, and
S1: maybe it just takes asking our spouse if we're a
S1: good listener or not. Maybe we don't want to ask
S1: that question. Um, or do our coworkers, you know, asking
S1: or even asking our coworkers. And maybe that's a good
S1: exercise to start with. If we want to be humble
S1: and really start working at this, start asking the people,
S1: the most important people in our lives, maybe our children,
S1: and ask them, hey, do you think I listen well? Mhm.
S1: That might be a surprising conversation for many of us
S1: to have you know, and but there are simple things
S1: we can do. This is not this doesn't have to
S1: be rocket science. You know, it's even built into the
S1: phrase when somebody might say to you, can you please
S1: give me your undivided attention. And I think that's a
S1: great place to start because so many, so much of
S1: our attention these days is divided. You know, it's divided
S1: between so many things at the same time. So some
S1: simple things like sitting down with somebody and looking at
S1: them in the eyes, uh, you know, your, your body language,
S1: pointing your, your body towards somebody. Um, you know, you
S1: can even go to a coffee shop and study people,
S1: you know, don't do it. Don't stare at them too long. Um,
S1: but study conversations that are taking place. I did this
S1: when I was writing the book, and I and I
S1: watched a couple as they were talking and their bodies
S1: were kind of tilted away from each other. And then
S1: I watched the gentleman. I could tell this conversation was
S1: getting serious, and he and he literally rotated his chair
S1: so that he would point his shoulders and his face
S1: directly at the person instead of being at an angle,
S1: and even that simple thing. And he leaned forward. And
S1: then I watched that other person reciprocate, and they leaned forward.
S1: You know, because we match each other's body movements. And
S1: I could tell that the conversation really picked up because
S1: basically that that person made an investment in the relationship
S1: with their with their body language. And it was really simple,
S1: but it had a profound effect.
S4: Yeah, I can certainly see that. Well, you know, all
S4: the love languages first start with our ability or inability
S4: to pay attention, you know, to the other person. So
S4: what's the relationship between building healthy relationships and our attention?
S1: Yeah. Again, I think our connection and meaningful relationships, it
S1: all begins with paying proper attention to somebody. And so
S1: another thing that we can do and and we you
S1: touched on this at the beginning of the episode. It's
S1: something that you're really good at. Doctor Chapman is asking
S1: good questions of somebody. And so I even encourage younger people,
S1: let's say you're even going to like a networking event.
S1: You know, those would always terrify me. You know, you
S1: felt like you had to like, you know, give out
S1: your business cards like you're, you know, a car salesman
S1: or like you're in the Wild West and you're like,
S1: pulling out your business cards as fast as you can
S1: to hand them out to people and tell people you're 30,
S1: you know, 32nd elevator pitch. You got to have that
S1: down to tell people how amazing you are, right? And
S1: I started realizing that what that was all wrong, you know,
S1: and I started encouraging younger people don't network like a machine,
S1: you know, go in relationship like a person. And and
S1: the and the way you start doing that is don't
S1: even worry about talking about yourself. Throw out the elevator
S1: pitch nobody Nobody cares, to be honest. Go in and
S1: ask other people really good questions. Yeah, and try to
S1: get the other person talking about themselves for the first
S1: five minutes. Almost make it a game. Can you ask
S1: good questions to somebody else so that they'll talk about
S1: themselves for the first five minutes? And I bet you
S1: when they leave that conversation, even if you haven't said
S1: more than two words about yourself, What is that other
S1: person going to be thinking about? You? They're going to
S1: be thinking, man, I really like that person. Wow. I
S1: really connected with them. I'm going to I want to
S1: introduce them to my boss, to, you know, whatever it
S1: might be. And they might not even realize that you
S1: never even said a word about yourself, but you just
S1: showed them love and respect by asking them good questions.
S1: And now they like you.
S4: That's for sure. You know, my wife can strike up
S4: a conversation in the grocery store, and she's really good
S4: at asking questions. And in 30 minutes, she knows the
S4: whole life story of that person. So questions are important.
S1: Exactly.
S4: Now you use the the word currency. Attention is a currency.
S4: What do you mean by that phrase?
S1: Yeah, it's it's actually built into the phrase. It's right there,
S1: you know, pay attention. And I think it's helpful to
S1: even think about it in those terms of what payments
S1: are you making with your attention. So what are you
S1: investing in with your attention? You know, are you investing in,
S1: let's say, your children, are you making payments with your attention,
S1: with your children, or are they just a distraction, or
S1: are they just in the way? Or are they a
S1: nuisance as you go and do more important things? Hmm. Well,
S1: that's probably going to show up in your relationship with them. Yeah, right.
S1: You know, it's kind of that old adage that, you know,
S1: kids are misbehaving, you know, the real troubled kids. It's
S1: just a cry for attention, right? Yeah. And so it's
S1: like they'll do whatever it takes, good or bad, to
S1: get their parent's attention. And, uh, and I even see that,
S1: you know, in today's age, you know, we talk about
S1: younger people being narcissists by all the selfies, you know,
S1: showing selfie after selfie on the internet. And, you know,
S1: it's a bunch of narcissists. Well, I don't really see that,
S1: you know, narcissists. You know, back to the old mythology.
S1: You know, he fell in love with his own image,
S1: you know, and that's why he couldn't leave the pond, right?
S1: Because he fell in love so deeply with his own image.
S1: I don't see that with young people and them posting selfies.
S1: I see it as a cry, as a yearning from
S1: their heart for somebody to see them, for somebody to
S1: hear them. You know that there's that cry that's a
S1: yearning of their soul. And so they're doing it in
S1: this kind of misplaced way. But let me show another
S1: picture to get validation. Yeah. And so we as parents,
S1: even in that way, we can pay attention and we
S1: can make those investments in our kids. And then also,
S1: where are we in debt to our with our attention?
S1: Are we in debt to CNN and Fox News? Is
S1: that getting our choice attention every day, or to TikTok
S1: or Instagram or whatever it might be? Where are we
S1: in debt to with our attention? Because we are in
S1: an attention economy. Everything wants your attention, so we have
S1: to fight and be intentional about paying our attention into
S1: important places that we're going to reap the dividends for
S1: the rest of our lives.
S4: Yeah, well, uh, I had never thought about attention as
S4: a currency, but I get it. Paying attention. Uh, in
S4: chapter five, you write about the importance of awkward, boring,
S4: quiet spaces. Is there a place for the mind to
S4: be silent? And how important is that?
S1: Oh man, you know, our minds weren't made for constant noise.
S1: They just really weren't, you know? And I almost equate
S1: it to, you know, that sponge at your kitchen sink, right? That, uh,
S1: that probably smells a little bit. And you probably should
S1: have thrown it away, you know, a few weeks ago.
S1: And yet we keep using it all the time, like
S1: it's still cleaning our dishes. It always baffles me, you know,
S1: that we do this. Yeah. Um, but but a but
S1: a sponge, if it's constantly in water or if it's
S1: constantly soggy, you know, it becomes that way, it becomes mildewy,
S1: it becomes, uh, smelly because it's never been given that
S1: chance to dry out. Yeah, and I equate that to
S1: our minds. You know, we're not giving our minds the
S1: ability to just dry out, to be at quiet, to
S1: be at peace, to be at rest, to be praying
S1: or meditating, you know, asking God, fill me with your thoughts.
S1: Fill me with your peace, you know. And if we're
S1: constantly giving ourselves a noise, you know, we're becoming that sponge.
S1: That's just it's constantly in water and it kind of
S1: begins to smell and lose its effectiveness.
S6: Mhm.
S4: Why do you think so many of us are uncomfortable
S4: in these, you know, quiet spaces or other things are
S4: going on and we just feel like, you know, we're
S4: not wasting time though are we.
S1: Yeah. You know I think I think we've lied to
S1: ourselves a little bit that we always have to be
S1: doing something. Yeah. You know, and I think we've kind
S1: of lost it on the altar of productivity sometimes, where
S1: I always need to be productive. Yeah. But actually I
S1: would argue that by always jumping on your phone, any, any,
S1: you know, any space, any boring moment that you have,
S1: you're probably being very counterproductive. That's probably the least productive
S1: thing you could do. Yeah. And actually, I found while
S1: I was writing my book, I started, uh, scheduling into
S1: my day a 30 to 45 minute walk where that
S1: was on my calendar, and I would schedule that in
S1: and I wouldn't listen to anything. You know, as amazing
S1: as this podcast is, you know, I wasn't listening to
S1: any podcasts. You know, I was just listening. What? Listening
S1: to my day. I was listening to the Lord, and
S1: I was just listening to the birds and my footsteps
S1: on the ground. And I'm telling you, those 40 minutes
S1: I wrote so much of my book on those walks
S1: because that's when I was getting the ideas, you know,
S1: aha moments. They don't happen by accident. Yeah, they happen
S1: in those quiet, still moments where our minds and our
S1: hearts are at rest so that the Lord can speak
S1: to us and we actually are listening.
S4: I've had a personal devotional time with God, of course,
S4: for years, you know, but in the last, I don't know,
S4: 3 or 4 months after I read the scriptures and
S4: talk to God about what I've read. You know, in
S4: that conversation, I've just been sitting there and saying, father,
S4: I just want to sit here in your presence and
S4: just enjoy your presence. And it's absolutely incredible. You know,
S4: the sense of warmth and awareness that that he's with us,
S4: you know? Uh, so, yeah, I'm identifying with that for sure. Wow. Hmm. Uh,
S4: why is it important to intentionally decide where our attention
S4: is placed? Because we're the ones that decide that, right?
S1: Yeah. You know, I think there's been a lot of studies, uh,
S1: through psychology and neuroscience, that's been studying attention and our
S1: ability to pay attention. And I dive into a lot
S1: of that in the book to kind of get the
S1: neuroscience behind this as well. And there's a theory called
S1: inattentional blindness. So actually, psychologists have been somewhat alarmed or
S1: surprised that we actually don't see so much of what
S1: comes in front of us every day. Mhm. Uh, so
S1: I mentioned a video that's maybe some of us have
S1: seen a video like this. I'll do this in my
S1: keynotes when I'm talking to leaders, you know, about attention
S1: and paying proper attention, where there's a team in white
S1: and a team in black, and they're throwing the ball
S1: around and the narrator asks, how much passes does the
S1: team in white make? And I tell people, you know,
S1: really focus. I want to see who's paying attention in
S1: the room. And the video starts going. They start throwing
S1: passes around, and the narrator stops and I say, well,
S1: who got the answer right? And everybody shouts out, seven!
S1: And sure enough, the answer is seven, you know? And
S1: everybody cheers. It was seven passes, but then the narrator
S1: stops and says, but did you see the moonwalking bear?
S1: And everybody's like, what? You know, and they rewind the
S1: video and sure enough, a man and a full size
S1: bear costume moonwalks across the entire screen. But you don't
S1: see them. Yeah, because you only see what you're looking for.
S1: So really paying attention is not a passive endeavor. It's
S1: an intentional choice. Yeah. So we actually make our minds
S1: up and we choose what we pay attention to. You know,
S1: that's why you can see somebody who's made their mind up,
S1: even when they're going through the worst things in their life.
S1: And we know people like this. They're going through such
S1: hard things, but they're still joyful. Yeah, they're still at peace.
S1: They still have rest in their lives. It's because they've
S1: chosen to pay attention to the good things instead of
S1: dwelling on the bad. That's an intentional choice that they've made.
S1: So attention is not a passive thing. Paying attention is
S1: an intentional choice. Yeah.
S3: Gary, I think that this is one of those relational
S3: things that in marriages and friendships, whatever, If you only
S3: see what you're looking for, then you're not seeing what
S3: you're not looking for. And so that that could change
S3: a marriage. It could change a church, couldn't it?
S4: I think this the concept of this book, the heart
S4: of this book is something we need to we need
S4: to regain in our culture.
S7: Yeah.
S3: What do you say about that, Paul? Have you seen this?
S3: Have you not seen the moonwalking bear in your own marriage?
S1: Yeah. You know, I have. I and really again, forced
S1: me to live out what I was writing. So I
S1: even took the, uh, you know, I took the time to,
S1: you know, when my, let's say, my wife and I
S1: are going to have a serious discussion. You know, we
S1: all know these, right? Where you're kind of dreading talking
S1: about something that's important, you know? And I'm passive aggressive.
S1: I don't like conflict, so I run from it. You know,
S1: that's kind of what I learned from a young age
S1: is when conflict was going on. I would run in
S1: my household, I would hide and and I feel I
S1: do the same thing. So I've had to become better
S1: at that. But but I made a choice and I thought, well,
S1: let me just try this, you know? And so instead
S1: of just going straight to, here's what's bothering me about
S1: you or here's what I'm annoyed with, you know, I
S1: tried to I tried to pay attention and really set
S1: a foundation for the conversation by directing our attention to,
S1: you know what? I know we both really value, trust
S1: and respect with each other, and I know we both
S1: want to build a better relationship every day with each other.
S1: And that's why I want to talk to you about this,
S1: because I want us to just keep doing a better
S1: job at building this trust. Yeah. So so directing our
S1: attention to the foundation, to. Hey, we're both in this together.
S1: You know, we're in this foxhole together, basically. You know,
S1: we both have each other's backs and we're going to
S1: look after each other. And to do this better, I
S1: want to talk about this. And that really had a
S1: more profound effect. Instead of me just you. Right. Just
S1: throwing it right in their face. Yeah. Which I think
S1: is what happens most of the time. You know, instead
S1: of serving it up kind of on a platter in
S1: front of somebody, we just take that platter and shove
S1: it right in their face and say, listen to me. Well,
S1: that that doesn't have a great effect. I think most
S1: of us have learned in our marriage that that's not
S1: a great place to start.
S4: Well, that's that's a powerful point you just made. Tell
S4: them why you want to talk about this. You know,
S4: the foundational thing we want to keep growing, you know,
S4: and I know you want to keep growing. Paul, we've
S4: been talking about and then so far that in our culture,
S4: we seem to have lost the art or the skill
S4: or the practice of really paying attention. Why is that?
S4: Why do you think we've gotten to this place and
S4: and what's the hope of regaining it?
S1: Yeah, I think I think this is such an important topic. Obviously,
S1: you know, this is why I wrote about it, because
S1: I think there is such a battle for our attention
S1: these days. You know, as we spoke about before, we're
S1: in an attention economy and every app and, and social
S1: media platform, they're all battling for our time and attention. Yeah.
S1: And they are getting more and more advanced with AI
S1: and all these different systems. That's tracking our every move,
S1: and it's just showing us what it knows we want
S1: to see because it wants to suck us in, right?
S1: And take our time and attention. You know, we're even
S1: even even technologies like that I talk about in the book,
S1: the The Infinite Scroll is one technology and that's on something,
S1: you know, it's on lots of them. But let's say
S1: Instagram Stories, where you click on a story and it
S1: shows you something. And then what does it do? It.
S1: It just scrolls right to the next one seamlessly, right?
S1: It doesn't even give you a chance to think about it.
S1: And they've done that intentionally. And one engineer that I,
S1: that I, you know, researched for the book, he called
S1: it like behavioral cocaine is what they've created and they've
S1: done it to be as maximally addictive as possible. And
S1: they don't want your brain to catch up to what
S1: you're watching so that you will continue to just watch ten, 15,
S1: 20 minutes of mindless videos, uh, so that you get
S1: sucked in and spend more of your time on that platform.
S1: So that's why I do think it's so important now
S1: more than ever, for us to be intentional with our
S1: attention and really take it back, because we used to
S1: answer our phones only when they were ringing. Now we're
S1: answering our phones when they're not even making a sound. Yeah.
S4: Yeah. So do you think that that the technology has
S4: been a big part of getting us to where we
S4: are and not paying attention to the things that surround us?
S1: I definitely think so. You know, and I think it's
S1: only going to get more intense. Yeah. There were there
S1: was a gentleman called, um, uh, by the name of
S1: Vance Packard and he, he wrote about, uh, the master
S1: manipulators that were invading the privacy of our minds. And
S1: he was really worried about this, and he felt like, man,
S1: we really have to protect the privacy of our minds
S1: because they're invading it, you know? And he he called
S1: it the Hidden Persuaders. You know, this was a book
S1: that he wrote in 1957. Um, you know, he was
S1: worried about this in 1957 with the advertising and marketing
S1: that was taking place. And people were really alarmed about this. Well, gosh,
S1: how much more advanced have those master manipulators become where
S1: it's not even people anymore? It's it's not the madmen
S1: right in the office drinking whiskey, thinking about how they're
S1: going to influence us. These are these are dialed in
S1: AI systems that might know us better than our spouse
S1: knows us. Yeah, and that's alarming, you know, and it's
S1: it's catering sometimes to the worst part of us. Yeah.
S1: To our sinful nature. And that's what it's going to
S1: cater to. So I do think it is such an
S1: alarming and important part of our history to take back
S1: our attention and say, this is mine. I need to
S1: choose where I'm placing this and not let some somebody
S1: else or something else make that decision for me.
S6: Yeah.
S4: So you were talking about this, you know, the mindless, uh, scrolling, just,
S4: you know, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling and our social media and
S4: and our mind is still working. What effect can this
S4: have on our mental health?
S1: Oh, man. You know, we're seeing those. As you know,
S1: Doctor Chapman, you know, all the all the studies that
S1: are coming about about, you know, anxiety levels going through
S1: the roof, depression levels, um, suicide, you know, especially for
S1: younger people, you know, this is an epidemic, you know,
S1: and obviously, we can't equate it to just one thing.
S1: You know, this is a multi-layered thing in our in
S1: our society. But but I do get alarmed, and especially
S1: with younger people, when the email that I would get
S1: the most from them. And these are people that are
S1: highly connected online that might have thousands and thousands of
S1: connections online. And the email I get the most from
S1: them is I feel so alone. Yeah. And that's such
S1: a paradox in our society to be instantly connected globally.
S1: And yet you feel more alone and isolated than ever. Yeah.
S1: You know, and it goes back to that obsessive comparison disorder. Um,
S1: it goes back to just that lack of authentic and
S1: vulnerable relationships with people, because it's also highly manicured and
S1: it's built on this online system. So I think it
S1: has great effects to our mental health, this this lack
S1: of connection and, and real relationships with people. Yeah.
S4: Yeah. You know, no question about it. You know, the
S4: research talks about loneliness, you know, on college campuses, for example,
S4: that it's a huge problem here. They are intelligent people
S4: from all over, you know, gathered together. They don't really
S4: know anybody, but they're doing all this studying and all
S4: the other, uh, things online and, and yet feel alone
S4: around people all the time and exposing themselves on the
S4: screens to people all the time and yet not having
S4: any real personal interfacing with people on an honest level,
S4: you know, and building friendships and that sort of thing.
S4: It's just it's tragic really, to see, to see what's happening.
S4: Why is it important to do physical things in a
S4: physical world?
S1: I think sometimes we forget, you know, that we are
S1: physical beings, you know, And, uh, you know, I remember thinking,
S1: you know, how how much my back and my legs
S1: and my body was hurting from my complete lack of movement. Mhm.
S1: Not because I was over exerting myself. It's because I
S1: had no exertion whatsoever. I was just sitting at a
S1: computer all day. Yeah. And I think there is something
S1: so powerful with doing something physical in a physical world,
S1: something that you enjoy, you know, and that could be,
S1: you know, something like gardening. You know, gardening for me
S1: is something I really enjoy. Or digging in the earth,
S1: planting things, seeing it grow, doing it with my children. Uh,
S1: you know, they they know all the vegetable plants. They
S1: know what's what. And they're out there picking the tomatoes
S1: before I can get there. And that's the biggest problem,
S1: is that they they pick the choicest tomatoes and they're
S1: gobble them up before I can even know they're they're ripened,
S1: you know, but that's that's sometimes the only way they'll
S1: eat a vegetable is if it's coming from the garden.
S1: And they and they see it, you know, and but
S1: those are, those are such important, rich, meaningful times, uh,
S1: that we just kind of step in to God's creation. Yeah.
S1: To the way that he has designed things and to
S1: get away from the screen. You know, I think we
S1: would do more for our mental health by digging a
S1: hole in the ground for a meaningful purpose than we
S1: would from 15 minutes digging in some, you know, drama,
S1: some dirt online. You know, that's what people are dishing
S1: out the dirt online. You would do more for yourself
S1: if you just dug a hole in the ground, you know,
S1: and you would probably learn more about yourself and you
S1: would get more feelings of peace and contentment than than
S1: you would the other way.
S4: Yeah, yeah. You know, you're talking about the garden now.
S4: You're taking me back to my childhood because my my
S4: father had a garden. And for as long as I
S4: can remember, we were out there planting potatoes and beans
S4: and all that other stuff and then bringing them in,
S4: and my mother canned them and, you know, and we
S4: didn't even have television in those days. Okay.
S8: Yeah, I'm telling you how old I am. Well, but those.
S1: Were those those those were those rich, seminal memories, you know,
S1: that it's still coming back to you, shows you that
S1: level of importance and probably that connection that you grew
S1: with your father during those times.
S4: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
S1: You know, and again, if we always have devices around
S1: and TV and everything, like you said, there's such a
S1: disconnect in all our connection.
S6: Yeah. Yeah.
S4: Well, you know, we're we're talking about so much information. Okay?
S4: We talk about being saturated with information. Information information information.
S4: How can we break free from information overload and actually
S4: comprehend what we're consuming, understand what's going on.
S6: Yeah, because.
S4: We're kind of blinded to it seems like.
S9: Yeah. Yeah, Again.
S1: I think we've. I think we've bought into a lie
S1: of sorts. That information equals wisdom. Mhm. That, that the
S1: more information you get, the more wise you are. And
S1: that's not necessarily true. You know, and I think we
S1: can look in today's age and really paint a pretty
S1: bleak picture that the sheer volume of information has not
S1: led to a sheer increase of wisdom. Because, you know,
S1: obviously wisdom is is information and knowledge applied correctly in
S1: this season and the time and the place that you're living,
S1: you know, you could you could say the same thing,
S1: but you could say it at the wrong time and
S1: it could lead to a bad outcome. Yeah. So so
S1: really we would be better off, I think sometimes of
S1: just hearing something, let's say even from a podcast, even
S1: if somebody's listening to this podcast, if they heard something
S1: that really struck them as profound, I think they'd be
S1: really well off to just pause, pause the podcast and
S1: think about it. You know, think about what you just heard,
S1: write about it, you know, really reflect on that. Because
S1: we again, we get so much good information. There's so
S1: many great teachers out there and we're hearing so much
S1: great information, but we'd be better off just taking even
S1: just one nugget at a time and pausing and reflecting
S1: so that we can digest it and we can figure out, okay,
S1: how do I translate this to wisdom in my life?
S1: How do I really take this in and make it
S1: a part of my life? And just instead of just
S1: more information that's just going in one ear, out the other?
S4: Paul, we mentioned phones, you know, several times in our
S4: conversation here. And you write that often our phones is
S4: is really a method to escape. What do you mean
S4: by that. And why do you think that's true?
S1: Yeah. You know, I really realized in my own life
S1: and as I looked at others as well, that that
S1: we've become really good cultural escape artists where again, we
S1: can escape any awkward situation that we're in now. And
S1: like we even mentioned before, you know, we got, you know,
S1: as the the, uh, onset of this conversation, we talked
S1: about even like an airplane ride, you know, now when
S1: we sit down next to that person, you know, it's like,
S1: it's like that ten minutes before you can take out
S1: your devices again. You know, it's kind of like the
S1: scariest moment of the plane ride. It's not because you're
S1: taking off and flying thousands of feet in the air.
S1: It's because I can't have my computer. What am I
S1: going to do? I don't want to. I can't talk
S1: to this person. Let me put my hood on and
S1: just pretend like I'm sleeping, you know, for those ten minutes.
S1: And that's how much we dread almost that conversation. But
S1: but I started thinking about, you know, we talk about
S1: chance encounters, you know, with people. And I started thinking
S1: about it as not so chance encounters because what are
S1: the what are the odds that you're sitting next to
S1: that person on the plane right now? Yeah. What are
S1: the odds? They're astronomical. What are what are the odds
S1: that you're in line with that person right now, or
S1: that you've struck up a conversation with somebody at the
S1: coffee shop? The odds are, you know, out of this world.
S1: And so what is God orchestrating? Yeah. You know, and
S1: at least should we give God the chance? And should
S1: we at least pay attention to maybe what God is
S1: trying to show us, what God is trying to bring
S1: into our lives through these not so chance encounters. And
S1: I'm telling you, even with what I call an awkward
S1: wander at conferences, that's why I encourage young people to do.
S1: I say go do an awkward wander around a conference
S1: with no set idea what you're doing, just awkwardly wander
S1: around and strike up conversations with people. And I'm telling you,
S1: that's how I got one of my book deals, which
S1: is awkwardly wandering around in a conference. I went up
S1: to the lady selling books at a major publishing house.
S1: I complimented her, I complimented the setup. I mean, it
S1: was really well done. I just wanted to talk to her.
S1: I had no ideas of any. You know, I didn't
S1: even think it was possible for me to get a
S1: book deal with them. But just that one conversation with
S1: her led me to her introducing me to the VP
S1: of marketing, and that's where I got my book deal.
S1: And so we never know those not so chance encounters
S1: that we're missing every day because we're, again escaping cultural
S1: escape artists into our phones and missing what the profound
S1: things that God wants to do in our life.
S4: You know, I had an experience like that just recently
S4: on a on a plane. A man walked in with
S4: a long beard and sat down beside of me. And
S4: I don't remember how we started the conversation, but he
S4: eventually said to me, I have not been in civilization
S4: for five months. I've been in Alaska taking people on
S4: hunting trips and fishing trips, and this is I'm going
S4: home because my mother is sick and I want to
S4: see my mother and dad. And we had one of
S4: the most meaningful conversations, you know, and he just poured
S4: his heart out to me and, you know, and I
S4: walked off the plane and said, thank you, God. The
S4: chances of our sitting together, I mean, what are the
S4: chances of that? You know, the whole book here is
S4: talking about listening to my day. So how can I
S4: know if I'm listening to my day?
S1: Well, first off, you know, obviously pick up the book, right?
S1: That's the that's the answer, you know, but, um. but
S1: no but but but in the book I really do
S1: I leave a lot of places for people to write
S1: and I'm and I'm asking readers, you know, poignant questions
S1: throughout the whole process and giving people exercises so that
S1: you can begin to practice paying attention. And again, I
S1: do think this is something that we can practice. We
S1: can improve upon our ability to pay attention to what's important.
S1: It doesn't just come naturally for many of us, it's
S1: something that we need to work on. And I'm telling you,
S1: if you do put in that time and that work, man,
S1: you're going to see amazing outcomes. You're going to see, um,
S1: forward movement in your life, clarity in your life, stronger
S1: relationships and building those stronger connections with people. And, uh,
S1: in the last five, six chapters of the book, I
S1: even talk about mindset models, which is basically kind of
S1: like exercises for somebody to practice paying attention in a
S1: different way. So I even have something like the entrepreneurial
S1: mindset model, you know, how do you look at your day,
S1: listen to your day, but do it through the lens
S1: like an entrepreneur would? Even if you don't think of
S1: yourself as entrepreneurial, well, let's think like an entrepreneur today
S1: and see what that changes. You know, an entrepreneur. They
S1: probably they pay attention to their problems in a different way,
S1: where they might see a problem in their day and
S1: where other people might get frustrated and get mad. An
S1: entrepreneur might see a problem and they might get really excited. Mhm.
S1: Someone must have done something about this problem. Let me research.
S1: And then they get even more excited if they figured
S1: out no one's even touched this problem yet. Because now
S1: that's led to a chance for a product, for their purpose,
S1: to step in and solve that problem. Yeah. So there's
S1: lots of these different things that they're really helpful to
S1: kind of get out of our, our, our, our lane,
S1: our frame of looking at things and to look at
S1: our day from different angles. And I'm telling you, it's
S1: been really profound for me to to do these in
S1: my own life, because I just see I've seen so
S1: much different things that I wouldn't have done, because you
S1: need that different perspective. Yeah.
S4: Well, you also talk about, uh, you know, giving the
S4: mind a path and a purpose for each day. Mhm. Uh,
S4: how does how does that bring clarity?
S1: Something as simple as how we're starting our day, you know,
S1: and I know there's been tons of books and tons
S1: of people have talked about this, but but it's really
S1: a travesty if we start our day with distractions. We
S1: really have to be intentional about how we start our day.
S1: And you have to make your day bigger than your distractions.
S1: You know, and this goes back to your your why,
S1: you know, this goes back to your purpose, your reason
S1: for each day. And so even starting your day with
S1: a question to yourself of what do I really want
S1: to pay attention to today? What's important to me today?
S1: What do I really want to focus my choice attention
S1: to today? And we'll all have different answers to that question.
S1: But at least by asking yourself that you're giving your
S1: mind direction and a purpose to that day, so that
S1: when you do start going down the rabbit hole of distraction,
S1: that might be the thing that stops you and say,
S1: you know what? My day is more important than this distraction.
S1: So I need to stop because I really want to
S1: pay attention to this business idea, to the next page
S1: I'm writing, to my spouse, to my kids, to my coworkers.
S1: I really want to pay my attention there because again,
S1: I want to pay dividends with this investment of my attention.
S1: So that's how we start making those intentional choices, to
S1: give our mind a map and a pathway to paying
S1: better attention. Yeah.
S4: Well, Paul, this has been a great conversation. It's a
S4: good book. I hope our listeners will not only listen
S4: to what we're saying today, but we'll get the book
S4: and eat from these concepts and begin to change some,
S4: some patterns in their life, being more intentional to see
S4: where they are and to focus on, you know, what
S4: constructive things do I need to be doing today that
S4: are more constructive than simply just picking up a phone
S4: and seeing what's going on in the world? So thanks
S4: for being with us today.
S1: Thank you so much for this rich conversation. It's been
S1: an honor being here.
S3: Paul Langone has been our guest, and if you'd like
S3: to find out more about his book, go to the website.
S3: Building relationships.us. It's titled Listen to Your Day The life
S3: changing Practice of Paying Attention. Just go to building relationships.
S3: Us now. Coming up next week, our summer best of
S3: series continues with a couple who's raising four boys, and
S3: they want to tackle the lives our culture is throwing
S3: at them. Don't miss it coming up in one week.
S2: A big thank you today to our production team, Steve
S2: Wick and Janice. Backing building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman
S2: is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers,
S2: a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening. To.