1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:05,960 S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond its cast 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:10,680 S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced guide. Overcome 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:15,440 S1: what seems impossible and live. As you never imagined. Start 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:16,880 S1: your morning with a laugh. 5 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:22,119 S2: Practical from the Bible. Tips and tricks to kill. Not tricks, 6 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:23,600 S2: but tips and tricks. 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,400 S3: Tips and tricks to kill. Tips and tricks. 8 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,400 S1: Delivering the truth daily. 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,280 S4: All of my attempts to, you know, prop myself up 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,760 S4: with achievement in good works. But God wasn't impressed by that. 11 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:38,239 S4: Even if other people were. 12 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,080 S2: The gospel changes everything. 13 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,519 S5: Freedom in Christ. Man, it's like that backpack of cement 14 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,440 S5: just falling to the ground. 15 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,920 S1: Now, from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl 16 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,519 S1: and crew. It's Carl and crew. We are in our 17 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,920 S1: final hour of Ask the Experts. Got Jay Warner Wallace here. 18 00:00:58,080 --> 00:00:59,320 S1: How you doing? Jay Warner. 19 00:01:00,010 --> 00:01:02,410 S6: Doing. Well. This is the last hour. Wow. I feel 20 00:01:02,450 --> 00:01:03,410 S6: like this is. I'm. 21 00:01:03,450 --> 00:01:06,330 S1: You're tapping it. You're tapping it, and. Yeah, we are. 22 00:01:06,370 --> 00:01:08,649 S1: We are really honored to have you with us here. 23 00:01:08,690 --> 00:01:11,330 S1: All right, my man, let's build some context. Give us 24 00:01:11,330 --> 00:01:14,490 S1: your story. You were. You were out there far from God, 25 00:01:14,490 --> 00:01:15,090 S1: weren't you? 26 00:01:15,930 --> 00:01:17,650 S6: Yeah, and I was not really interested. I didn't have 27 00:01:17,650 --> 00:01:19,770 S6: anybody in my family who were Christians, and I. And 28 00:01:19,770 --> 00:01:22,650 S6: I think it was, uh, if I'm sadly to hate 29 00:01:22,650 --> 00:01:24,890 S6: to admit this, but the people I knew that were 30 00:01:24,890 --> 00:01:29,490 S6: Christians at my job, um, as a detective were, uh, interestingly, 31 00:01:29,490 --> 00:01:34,530 S6: not evidential about their Christian views. Well, while and of course, 32 00:01:34,530 --> 00:01:37,170 S6: our job requires us to be evidential about everything else. 33 00:01:37,370 --> 00:01:39,330 S6: So these are guys who can make a case for 34 00:01:39,330 --> 00:01:41,410 S6: so many different bad guys we were trying to to 35 00:01:41,450 --> 00:01:43,890 S6: catch yet. But if you asked them, well, can you 36 00:01:43,890 --> 00:01:46,449 S6: make a case for this? They seem like that. Even 37 00:01:46,450 --> 00:01:49,050 S6: the idea seemed foreign, like this is not something they 38 00:01:49,050 --> 00:01:50,450 S6: would need to make a case for. And I was 39 00:01:50,450 --> 00:01:52,050 S6: somebody who said, look, if you can't make a case 40 00:01:52,050 --> 00:01:55,450 S6: for it, then I'm not interested, right? Just. It's silly. 41 00:01:55,610 --> 00:01:55,930 S6: What do you. 42 00:01:55,930 --> 00:01:56,330 S1: Think that. 43 00:01:56,330 --> 00:01:57,610 S6: Was? And mock those guys. 44 00:01:57,650 --> 00:01:59,900 S1: Why do you think that was? Why did they not 45 00:01:59,900 --> 00:02:03,620 S1: see the congruency of their faith with their cold case 46 00:02:03,740 --> 00:02:04,900 S1: detective work? 47 00:02:05,540 --> 00:02:07,820 S6: Well, I think a lot of it is, um, if 48 00:02:07,860 --> 00:02:10,460 S6: you if you look at Scripture, there's and I see 49 00:02:10,460 --> 00:02:12,500 S6: this all around the country that if you ask people, 50 00:02:12,500 --> 00:02:14,940 S6: why are you a Christian? The top three answers you're 51 00:02:14,940 --> 00:02:17,139 S6: going to get are number one, I was raised as 52 00:02:17,139 --> 00:02:19,820 S6: a Christian. My family are Christians. My parents were Christians. 53 00:02:19,820 --> 00:02:22,500 S6: That's the most popular answer you're going to get. Number 54 00:02:22,500 --> 00:02:25,260 S6: two is going to be something along the lines of, 55 00:02:25,460 --> 00:02:27,660 S6: I had an experience. And that experience confirmed for me 56 00:02:27,660 --> 00:02:29,220 S6: that this is true. It could be that you had 57 00:02:29,220 --> 00:02:31,540 S6: a prayer that was answered, something that would seem. There's 58 00:02:31,540 --> 00:02:33,980 S6: no way the odds of this happening without God could 59 00:02:33,980 --> 00:02:37,980 S6: be such that statistically improbable. So therefore, there's a God. 60 00:02:38,260 --> 00:02:41,940 S6: These are the top two answers you're going to get. Now, 61 00:02:42,139 --> 00:02:45,580 S6: I didn't trust those top two answers. Number one, because 62 00:02:45,780 --> 00:02:49,019 S6: I have all atheists in my family. But my dad remarried. 63 00:02:49,260 --> 00:02:51,859 S6: And when he remarried, he married somebody who was, uh, 64 00:02:51,860 --> 00:02:55,180 S6: who became a member of the LDS church. And, and 65 00:02:55,460 --> 00:02:58,060 S6: so the question if you ask people in the LDS church, 66 00:02:58,060 --> 00:03:00,180 S6: why are you. Why did you become a mormon back 67 00:03:00,180 --> 00:03:02,220 S6: in the day? That's what they would call themselves. Um, 68 00:03:02,220 --> 00:03:05,020 S6: they would say, well, number one, I was raised this 69 00:03:05,020 --> 00:03:08,460 S6: way or two, I had an experience that demonstrated this 70 00:03:08,460 --> 00:03:10,980 S6: is true. Now, I'll just tell you both worldviews cannot 71 00:03:10,980 --> 00:03:13,140 S6: be true because we as Christians would say we believe 72 00:03:13,139 --> 00:03:15,140 S6: in the triune nature of God. And that is a 73 00:03:15,139 --> 00:03:18,299 S6: dividing line between us and members of the LDS church. 74 00:03:18,460 --> 00:03:20,380 S6: Both of us could be wrong, or one of us 75 00:03:20,380 --> 00:03:22,220 S6: could be right, but we both can't be right. So 76 00:03:22,220 --> 00:03:25,660 S6: whatever approach we're taking as Christians, if it can be 77 00:03:25,660 --> 00:03:29,380 S6: taken by every other theistic group, including Hindus and Buddhists 78 00:03:29,380 --> 00:03:31,900 S6: and whatever, because that's what all people say. I was 79 00:03:31,900 --> 00:03:34,299 S6: raised this way or I hadn't experienced that. No, we 80 00:03:34,300 --> 00:03:37,260 S6: have an opportunity here as Christians to examine whether or 81 00:03:37,260 --> 00:03:40,460 S6: not the stuff that's in the Gospels actually occurred in 82 00:03:40,460 --> 00:03:43,380 S6: the first century, because if it did, it changes everything, 83 00:03:43,380 --> 00:03:45,340 S6: and it demonstrates that Christianity is true. 84 00:03:46,660 --> 00:03:49,780 S1: J Warner Wallace is our guest. You've got questions for him. 85 00:03:49,780 --> 00:03:52,300 S1: He's got answers. We've got a full hour and I'm 86 00:03:52,300 --> 00:04:02,510 S1: asking you to light it up. 800 555 7898, 805, 55, 78, 98. 87 00:04:03,630 --> 00:04:07,630 S1: What did you discover that caused you to move from 88 00:04:07,670 --> 00:04:13,510 S1: ambivalent spiritually to believing that Jesus was not only a 89 00:04:13,750 --> 00:04:17,230 S1: real living person, but the Son of God? That's. Those 90 00:04:17,230 --> 00:04:20,029 S1: are three huge steps there. Jay Warner. 91 00:04:20,630 --> 00:04:23,390 S6: Yeah. Well, what started the whole investigation for me? You know, 92 00:04:23,390 --> 00:04:24,909 S6: I walked into a church with my wife because I 93 00:04:24,910 --> 00:04:26,670 S6: was more than happy to go to church. If it's 94 00:04:26,670 --> 00:04:28,270 S6: kind of like if your wife said, hey, I want 95 00:04:28,270 --> 00:04:30,110 S6: to go see this movie. You don't want to see 96 00:04:30,110 --> 00:04:31,790 S6: the movie, but you're going to go because you love 97 00:04:31,790 --> 00:04:34,549 S6: your spouse. Same is true for me. Restaurants are that way. 98 00:04:34,710 --> 00:04:36,669 S6: So I put it off as long as I could. 99 00:04:36,710 --> 00:04:39,909 S6: And then at some point she finally said, let's go tomorrow. Okay, great. 100 00:04:39,910 --> 00:04:42,630 S6: So we're in this big church. And the pastor said 101 00:04:42,630 --> 00:04:45,030 S6: that Jesus was the smartest man who ever lived. And 102 00:04:45,029 --> 00:04:47,790 S6: I just wanted to see what was so smart about Jesus. 103 00:04:47,790 --> 00:04:51,230 S6: So I bought a very inexpensive $6 Pew Bible, and 104 00:04:51,230 --> 00:04:54,670 S6: I started reading through it and not really thinking. I mean, 105 00:04:54,670 --> 00:04:56,960 S6: I was familiar as a kid with stories about Jesus, 106 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,680 S6: but I was. I was shocked to see in the 107 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,240 S6: Gospels that it was really an historical narrative, rather than 108 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,680 S6: simply a collection of wise wisdom statements, because he kind 109 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:07,920 S6: of made it sound like that was what it was 110 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:09,840 S6: going to be. But of course, they're not just a 111 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,000 S6: set of proverbs from Jesus. It's it's actually an account. 112 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,560 S6: And when you read the accounts, they have variations like 113 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,840 S6: they aren't exactly the same. And when I saw that, 114 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,000 S6: I said, oh, that's exactly what you experience. If you 115 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,479 S6: interview a number of witnesses on any event, if it's 116 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,560 S6: a crime that occurred two hours ago, you will not 117 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,440 S6: get four witnesses who agree on everything or who even 118 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,320 S6: describe it the same way. And so when I saw 119 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,280 S6: that variation, it provoked me to say, wow, I wonder 120 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,040 S6: if you could test this account. And we have a 121 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,000 S6: process in place by which we test accounts. It's the 122 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,440 S6: same criteria, probably in every state in America. It's in 123 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,120 S6: the jury instructions. And so I simply applied that template 124 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,159 S6: to the Gospels to see if what they were saying 125 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:56,529 S6: about Jesus was true. Now look, the Gospels include supernatural claims, 126 00:05:56,890 --> 00:05:59,850 S6: and for me, that was the deal breaker. So I 127 00:05:59,850 --> 00:06:03,330 S6: had to jump that that that gap first. And what 128 00:06:03,330 --> 00:06:07,090 S6: I mean is could is I believed that anything I 129 00:06:07,089 --> 00:06:09,650 S6: saw in the universe and anything I read in history 130 00:06:09,850 --> 00:06:12,330 S6: simply had to be explained by space, time, matter, physics 131 00:06:12,330 --> 00:06:16,290 S6: and chemistry. Nothing supernatural should be added to the account 132 00:06:16,290 --> 00:06:19,490 S6: or the explanation because I was a very committed, uh, 133 00:06:19,490 --> 00:06:24,290 S6: philosophical naturalist. And so I had to first ask myself, well, 134 00:06:24,770 --> 00:06:28,089 S6: I believed in Big Bang cosmology, and that's still the the, 135 00:06:28,089 --> 00:06:33,650 S6: the most popular amongst astrophysicists. It's called the standard cosmological model. 136 00:06:33,690 --> 00:06:36,890 S6: And for a reason. Because people believe, scientists believe that 137 00:06:36,890 --> 00:06:39,330 S6: everything in the universe, all space, time and matter came 138 00:06:39,330 --> 00:06:43,770 S6: into existence from nothing like what's before. Space time and 139 00:06:43,770 --> 00:06:46,690 S6: matter is a mystery. And that means that if there's 140 00:06:46,730 --> 00:06:49,490 S6: a cause outside of space, time and matter, we ought 141 00:06:49,490 --> 00:06:51,330 S6: to be open to the fact that there might be 142 00:06:51,330 --> 00:06:56,340 S6: something running the universe outside of physics and chemistry. And 143 00:06:56,339 --> 00:06:58,339 S6: if that's the case, then we should have an open 144 00:06:58,339 --> 00:07:02,500 S6: hand when we read about anything supernatural in the Gospels. 145 00:07:02,500 --> 00:07:04,820 S6: And so that that kind of helped me to at 146 00:07:04,860 --> 00:07:08,460 S6: least say I'm not going to disqualify them immediately. Let's 147 00:07:08,460 --> 00:07:11,260 S6: see how well they line up and all the other 148 00:07:11,260 --> 00:07:14,020 S6: criteria we would apply to an eyewitness, and then we'll 149 00:07:14,020 --> 00:07:17,060 S6: make a decision about the miraculous stuff. And of course, 150 00:07:17,060 --> 00:07:21,020 S6: the most important miracle in Scripture is the resurrection. Because 151 00:07:21,020 --> 00:07:25,260 S6: if that's true, then Jesus is in an entirely different category. 152 00:07:25,580 --> 00:07:27,660 S6: And that's that's what I needed to find out. 153 00:07:28,300 --> 00:07:31,980 S1: J Warner Wallace is our guest right now. Now here's 154 00:07:31,980 --> 00:07:34,660 S1: what happens. Invariably, we get a little bit warmed up, 155 00:07:34,660 --> 00:07:36,900 S1: and then we get crushed with so many phone calls, 156 00:07:36,900 --> 00:07:39,580 S1: we can't get them all. So I'm asking you right 157 00:07:39,580 --> 00:07:42,420 S1: now to prime the pump of your mind and ask 158 00:07:42,420 --> 00:07:44,300 S1: the Lord. Lord, what would you have me ask? What 159 00:07:44,300 --> 00:07:53,179 S1: have I wondered about? Verification? Validation? Confirmation? Any questions about 160 00:07:53,220 --> 00:07:54,750 S1: as I'm going to ask J. Manasa Warner here in 161 00:07:54,750 --> 00:07:58,230 S1: a moment about the deity of Jesus. How can we 162 00:07:58,270 --> 00:08:01,350 S1: know this? Give us a call right now. Or you 163 00:08:01,350 --> 00:08:07,670 S1: can text in your question (800) 555-7898. We got him here 164 00:08:07,670 --> 00:08:10,310 S1: for an hour and it is time right now. Get 165 00:08:10,310 --> 00:08:16,870 S1: those questions in here. 800 555 7898. It's been months 166 00:08:16,870 --> 00:08:19,190 S1: ago now, but I want to go back there. Jay Warner, 167 00:08:19,190 --> 00:08:23,309 S1: we had a great discussion about the evidence for the 168 00:08:23,310 --> 00:08:27,990 S1: actual resurrection of the dead of our Savior, Jesus Christ. 169 00:08:27,990 --> 00:08:29,150 S1: What do you look at? 170 00:08:30,110 --> 00:08:31,870 S6: Well, we're looking at trying to figure out what is 171 00:08:31,870 --> 00:08:35,189 S6: the best inference from the evidence we do have. And 172 00:08:35,190 --> 00:08:38,390 S6: it's always about inferences from evidence. And that process is 173 00:08:38,390 --> 00:08:40,510 S6: called abductive reasoning. Right. So what we do is we 174 00:08:40,510 --> 00:08:43,150 S6: say okay, what is what do we have? Evidentially. Well, 175 00:08:43,429 --> 00:08:46,470 S6: as an atheist, I would have given you very minimal criteria. 176 00:08:46,510 --> 00:08:48,670 S6: I might have said, well, I believe that he lived. 177 00:08:48,910 --> 00:08:50,790 S6: I don't think there's I'm not one of these Jesus 178 00:08:50,790 --> 00:08:53,230 S6: Mithras who thinks he didn't even live. Um, and I 179 00:08:53,230 --> 00:08:54,670 S6: would have said, you know, the fact that he was 180 00:08:54,670 --> 00:08:56,670 S6: crucified on a cross in the first century to me 181 00:08:56,670 --> 00:08:59,510 S6: does not. I mean, that's supported well enough by manuscript 182 00:08:59,510 --> 00:09:01,630 S6: evidence in history. I don't have a problem with that. 183 00:09:01,910 --> 00:09:03,910 S6: I would have said there's probably an empty tomb, because 184 00:09:03,910 --> 00:09:06,270 S6: that's why this controversy exists to begin with. They couldn't 185 00:09:06,270 --> 00:09:08,270 S6: find the body. But and I would have said also 186 00:09:08,270 --> 00:09:12,309 S6: that there were a bunch of people who said they saw, um, Jesus. 187 00:09:12,309 --> 00:09:14,870 S6: But this does not mean that he actually was risen 188 00:09:14,870 --> 00:09:16,750 S6: from the grave, just that they made this claim. And 189 00:09:16,750 --> 00:09:19,110 S6: that's probably where I would have stopped. But you have 190 00:09:19,110 --> 00:09:22,030 S6: to explain those four data points, and I would have 191 00:09:22,030 --> 00:09:26,390 S6: given you maybe one of 6 or 7 non-Christian explanations. 192 00:09:26,390 --> 00:09:28,710 S6: Either they're lying about it or they imagined it, or 193 00:09:28,710 --> 00:09:31,070 S6: there was an imposter who stood in for Jesus. Or 194 00:09:31,070 --> 00:09:33,470 S6: maybe he didn't really die on the cross. Or maybe 195 00:09:33,470 --> 00:09:35,830 S6: somebody who had influence was influencing these people to believe 196 00:09:35,830 --> 00:09:37,390 S6: something that wasn't true. I mean, I would have given 197 00:09:37,390 --> 00:09:40,270 S6: you a number of different answers, but so I simply 198 00:09:40,270 --> 00:09:42,189 S6: put those answers on a piece of paper and run 199 00:09:42,190 --> 00:09:45,790 S6: through them and ask yourself, does this really explain the data? 200 00:09:46,309 --> 00:09:48,790 S6: And it turns out that the best explanation of the 201 00:09:48,790 --> 00:09:52,510 S6: data is the Christian explanation. But of course, it also 202 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,360 S6: has a weakness because every explanation has a weakness. Even 203 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,000 S6: the true explanation of who did a murder. When you 204 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,800 S6: get in front of a jury, I know the case's weaknesses. 205 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,320 S6: Every case has weaknesses, and there's a weakness in the 206 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:08,960 S6: Christian case, and it is that it requires a supernatural resurrection. 207 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,080 S6: But again, you can't make that the deal killer, because 208 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,680 S6: that's the thing you're investigating. You're investigating. This point is 209 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,960 S6: a resurrection, a reasonable inference from evidence. You can't start 210 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,240 S6: by saying, nope, a resurrection is never a reasonable inference, 211 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,400 S6: because that's the bias that will keep you from. It's 212 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,960 S6: like coming into a crime scene and saying, well, um, 213 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:28,680 S6: this is a woman who's dead. Oh, it's got to 214 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,160 S6: be her husband. Well, it often is her husband, but 215 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,600 S6: it doesn't mean you start there, because if you do, 216 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,000 S6: you're liable to eliminate all the other potential suspects. So 217 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,280 S6: you have to start with an open hand. But, you know, 218 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,800 S6: what's interesting to me is that I think when we 219 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,880 S6: talk about questions that are out there that people have, um, 220 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,280 S6: I think it's moving away from, well, what's the evidence 221 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,240 S6: for this? Because that's a very boomer kind of a 222 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:52,410 S6: question if you think about it. 223 00:10:52,450 --> 00:10:52,850 S1: Yeah. 224 00:10:53,050 --> 00:10:55,130 S6: And I'm and I'm a boomer, so I get it. 225 00:10:55,170 --> 00:10:55,650 S1: Yeah. 226 00:10:55,690 --> 00:10:59,130 S6: Um, but my son, who's in a different generation, and 227 00:10:59,130 --> 00:11:03,370 S6: my grandkids who are in different generation as alphas, right. 228 00:11:03,410 --> 00:11:06,610 S6: Gen Alpha. Okay. So their questions are going to be different. 229 00:11:06,610 --> 00:11:07,850 S6: Let me tell you. They're going to be they're going 230 00:11:07,850 --> 00:11:11,530 S6: to be not as it is it true Evidentially is 231 00:11:11,530 --> 00:11:15,490 S6: it good enough for me to care about? Is it good? 232 00:11:15,970 --> 00:11:18,610 S6: Does it do anything that any other worldview wouldn't do? 233 00:11:18,650 --> 00:11:21,090 S6: Does it make claims that are true about who I am? 234 00:11:21,490 --> 00:11:23,890 S6: And so I think when I see that people are 235 00:11:23,890 --> 00:11:27,570 S6: not flourishing right now in a culture, it's largely, uh, 236 00:11:27,570 --> 00:11:30,250 S6: not a surprise seems to be parallel to the fact 237 00:11:30,250 --> 00:11:34,050 S6: that Christianity is diminished. That is no longer the influence 238 00:11:34,050 --> 00:11:36,970 S6: on culture it used to be. And it's in that 239 00:11:37,010 --> 00:11:39,610 S6: that's why we see so much cell phone use or 240 00:11:39,610 --> 00:11:44,170 S6: smartphone use and the increase in in anxiety and depression 241 00:11:44,170 --> 00:11:47,210 S6: and all the statistics that are going in the wrong direction. Well, 242 00:11:47,210 --> 00:11:50,689 S6: it's because we've forgotten who we are in Christ because 243 00:11:50,690 --> 00:11:53,500 S6: we used to actually understand that. We used to actually 244 00:11:53,500 --> 00:11:56,260 S6: be able to say that. And now we're searching for 245 00:11:56,260 --> 00:11:59,980 S6: who are we relative to other humans that I'm watching 246 00:11:59,980 --> 00:12:03,340 S6: on social media? That is a very dangerous game to play. 247 00:12:03,580 --> 00:12:05,340 S6: And so I think in the end, the great thing 248 00:12:05,340 --> 00:12:08,660 S6: about Christianity, it's not only true, it's actually good for 249 00:12:08,660 --> 00:12:12,140 S6: you because it can recenter and reorder your life and 250 00:12:12,140 --> 00:12:15,100 S6: put worship back where it belongs, because often what we 251 00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:19,179 S6: put our identity in is the stuff we are fascinated with, 252 00:12:19,179 --> 00:12:22,140 S6: that we are grateful for, that we worship, that we 253 00:12:22,140 --> 00:12:24,820 S6: think is worthy of our worship. And those are the 254 00:12:24,820 --> 00:12:27,900 S6: points that we say, okay, I'm one of those. Often 255 00:12:27,900 --> 00:12:31,140 S6: you're watching right now, it's politics. We are far more 256 00:12:31,140 --> 00:12:33,860 S6: likely right now in the country to be polarized and 257 00:12:33,860 --> 00:12:37,300 S6: divided over an identity identity we choose to place in 258 00:12:37,300 --> 00:12:40,380 S6: our political party than our. And this is true for 259 00:12:40,380 --> 00:12:44,620 S6: Christians than in the Savior. And you can look at 260 00:12:44,660 --> 00:12:47,460 S6: Christian Scripture. You'll see that the word Christians only used 261 00:12:47,460 --> 00:12:49,860 S6: a few times in all the New Testament, what Paul 262 00:12:49,860 --> 00:12:52,110 S6: and John are far more likely to describe as a 263 00:12:52,110 --> 00:12:56,430 S6: Christian is somebody who is in Christ or in him. 264 00:12:56,990 --> 00:12:59,630 S6: And that's really where our identity needs to be, because 265 00:12:59,670 --> 00:13:01,630 S6: you can make a strong case that if you can 266 00:13:01,630 --> 00:13:05,030 S6: call yourself a Christian, but your identity is not grounded 267 00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:07,550 S6: and rooted in Christ, you may not be a Christian 268 00:13:07,550 --> 00:13:07,950 S6: at all. 269 00:13:07,990 --> 00:13:08,470 S3: Yeah. 270 00:13:08,750 --> 00:13:12,790 S1: J Warner Wallace, our guest. It is time to get 271 00:13:12,790 --> 00:13:22,790 S1: in your questions. 800 555 7898 800 555 7898 when 272 00:13:22,790 --> 00:13:28,150 S1: we get back. First Corinthians chapter 15 J. Warner deals 273 00:13:28,150 --> 00:13:33,630 S1: with Paul's citation that 500 people, he claimed, saw the 274 00:13:33,630 --> 00:13:37,950 S1: resurrection of Christ. How could have that been self-sabotaging to 275 00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:41,110 S1: the entire gospel? And what do you discover that gives 276 00:13:41,110 --> 00:13:45,349 S1: us hope there? That question and yours coming up 800 277 00:13:45,510 --> 00:13:48,390 S1: 555 7898. 278 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,320 S7: When you don't know who's better to ask than an expert. 279 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,480 S7: You're listening to Carl and crew. 280 00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:02,600 S1: Questions pouring in right now. 800 555 7898 our expert J. Warner. Wallace. 281 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,400 S1: Love this guy. I love you, bro. You're bringing the 282 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,160 S1: heat here. All right, first Corinthians 15. This to me 283 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,880 S1: is one of the most epic passages, because Paul would 284 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,079 S1: have been doing the proverbial self sabotage to claim there's 285 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,120 S1: 500 that witness his resurrection with the dating of that 286 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,720 S1: of that letter. Explain that. And why is that such 287 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,240 S1: an important passage of Scripture? 288 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,760 S6: Well, a couple things. Number one, it's early. Uh, it's 289 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,680 S6: early in about mid first century is when Paul is 290 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,560 S6: writing this letter to the Corinthians, which is makes sense, right? 291 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,760 S6: Because it's in what I love about Paul, by the way, 292 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:38,720 S6: is that not only does he write these letters, but 293 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,760 S6: when he writes to the Corinthian church here, he includes 294 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,720 S6: a passage from the Gospel of Luke when describing to 295 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,360 S6: them how to do the Lord's Supper. And he had 296 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,800 S6: taught that to them about 2 or 3 years prior 297 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,920 S6: to this letter. So this letter is probably around 53, 54. 298 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,320 S6: He probably planted the Corinthian, Corinthian church around 51, and 299 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,240 S6: he's already quoting Luke's gospel to them and how they 300 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,480 S6: should do the Lord's Supper, which means that Luke's gospel 301 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,120 S6: is earlier, which means we have people who are writing 302 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,560 S6: about Jesus. Now, Luke is not an eyewitness. Remember, he 303 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,080 S6: writes the book of acts, but he's Paul's associate in 304 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,160 S6: the book of acts. He was present for that, and 305 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,480 S6: he had access to all the eyewitnesses. And that's what 306 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,800 S6: he says in the first chapter of his gospel that 307 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,600 S6: he's speaking to the eyewitnesses, eyewitnesses, eyewitnesses, eyewitnesses. Now, Paul 308 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,320 S6: is mentioning there were 500 who were most of whom 309 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,680 S6: were still alive, which means there's at least 251 that 310 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,720 S6: are still around and could be interviewed. And he's writing 311 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,240 S6: this mid-century at a time when you could be challenged 312 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,520 S6: on this. This is a bold claim because it's risky, 313 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,040 S6: because you could easily have somebody say, well, you know what? 314 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,120 S6: I actually tried to find those witnesses and there were none. Now, 315 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,800 S6: remember also that Paul is not himself a he's like 316 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,290 S6: Luke in the sense that he gets to see Jesus. 317 00:15:48,290 --> 00:15:52,090 S6: Post-resurrection that's believe me. I'm sure that was compelling enough 318 00:15:52,210 --> 00:15:55,330 S6: for him to be okay. I'm in. Obviously it was, 319 00:15:55,330 --> 00:15:57,970 S6: but he he doesn't know. He has to go back 320 00:15:57,970 --> 00:16:01,850 S6: and hear from Jesus or from those who saw Jesus. Well, 321 00:16:01,850 --> 00:16:04,930 S6: what happened while Jesus was alive? Because he didn't know him. When? 322 00:16:04,970 --> 00:16:07,010 S6: When Jesus was alive. At least what? Not to our knowledge. 323 00:16:07,130 --> 00:16:09,450 S6: I'm sure he probably knew of him, but he didn't 324 00:16:09,450 --> 00:16:11,650 S6: have the data. So what does he say here? I 325 00:16:11,690 --> 00:16:15,330 S6: delivered to you as of first importance what I also received. 326 00:16:15,570 --> 00:16:18,170 S6: He may have received that from Jesus himself. He may 327 00:16:18,170 --> 00:16:20,330 S6: have received that from the people who knew Jesus, that 328 00:16:20,330 --> 00:16:23,810 S6: Christ died for our sins. Now remember, to see him 329 00:16:23,810 --> 00:16:26,050 S6: on the road to Damascus is very different than to 330 00:16:26,090 --> 00:16:29,130 S6: understand all of the theological dots that have to be connected. 331 00:16:29,770 --> 00:16:32,130 S6: And he says he died for our sins in accordance 332 00:16:32,130 --> 00:16:34,410 S6: with the Scripture. He was buried. These are the critical 333 00:16:34,410 --> 00:16:38,370 S6: data points. And hear me. This is the earliest creed 334 00:16:38,370 --> 00:16:43,170 S6: of the church within the lifetime of eyewitnesses, in which 335 00:16:43,170 --> 00:16:46,090 S6: the statement is being made publicly in a way that 336 00:16:46,090 --> 00:16:48,300 S6: you could check, because there are still apparently people who 337 00:16:48,300 --> 00:16:51,740 S6: saw this, that he was buried, raised on the third day, 338 00:16:52,060 --> 00:16:55,300 S6: and that he appeared to Cephas and then to the 12. 339 00:16:55,300 --> 00:16:58,380 S6: And then he appeared to more than 500 brothers at 340 00:16:58,380 --> 00:17:00,180 S6: one time, most of whom are still alive, though some 341 00:17:00,180 --> 00:17:03,860 S6: have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, by the way. Great. 342 00:17:04,260 --> 00:17:06,939 S6: You know, I'm just reading through John with my family. Uh, 343 00:17:07,060 --> 00:17:09,620 S6: we do a devotional every morning, three verses, and we're 344 00:17:09,619 --> 00:17:12,900 S6: in that part where the brothers of Jesus want Jesus 345 00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:15,980 S6: to go into the Festival of Booths, right in Jerusalem. 346 00:17:15,980 --> 00:17:17,899 S6: And he's like, not my time yet, guys. And it 347 00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:21,540 S6: says in there, John says that those brothers were not believers. 348 00:17:21,580 --> 00:17:21,980 S1: No. 349 00:17:22,660 --> 00:17:27,340 S6: Well, think about those brothers. Okay. Um, they became believers. Uh, 350 00:17:27,380 --> 00:17:30,340 S6: as a matter of fact. Two James and Jude wrote 351 00:17:30,340 --> 00:17:34,379 S6: books of the Bible. It's. And tradition has that Simon. Uh, 352 00:17:34,380 --> 00:17:37,820 S6: a third became a leader in the church. Um, we 353 00:17:37,820 --> 00:17:41,140 S6: have good reason to believe that all four became brothers. 354 00:17:41,220 --> 00:17:43,619 S6: Became believers, rather. And. But when did that happen? And 355 00:17:43,619 --> 00:17:47,030 S6: by the way, it wasn't during Jesus's lifetime, apparently because 356 00:17:47,070 --> 00:17:50,310 S6: at the cross Jesus says, Mary, this is your son, 357 00:17:50,350 --> 00:17:54,670 S6: who none of his brothers, John, his brothers, were not 358 00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:59,910 S6: yet believers. Yet they were when? Right here, right here 359 00:17:59,910 --> 00:18:03,070 S6: in this verse, he appeared to James. And from that 360 00:18:03,070 --> 00:18:06,390 S6: point on, James was in. He led the biggest church 361 00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:10,150 S6: in Jerusalem of all Christians in the first century, died 362 00:18:10,310 --> 00:18:13,710 S6: as the leader of that church. So what changed him? 363 00:18:14,109 --> 00:18:18,149 S6: This seeing the risen Christ, a guy like James, who 364 00:18:18,150 --> 00:18:21,470 S6: was not a believer before, ends up becoming a leader 365 00:18:21,470 --> 00:18:23,470 S6: of the church. And by the way, who has most 366 00:18:23,470 --> 00:18:25,629 S6: authority in the book of acts? Who does Paul and 367 00:18:25,630 --> 00:18:27,109 S6: Peter go back to to say, well, what do you 368 00:18:27,109 --> 00:18:30,790 S6: think it's James? Yeah. So this just gives us hope that. Yep. 369 00:18:30,790 --> 00:18:32,710 S6: You probably have people in your life right now who 370 00:18:32,710 --> 00:18:35,590 S6: you're thinking, wow, what's it going to take in? 371 00:18:35,630 --> 00:18:38,910 S1: The interesting thing about this passage is that as Paul 372 00:18:38,910 --> 00:18:42,310 S1: is writing this, he's it's just a it's a throw in. 373 00:18:42,310 --> 00:18:44,670 S1: And then he appeared to more than 500 brothers. It's 374 00:18:44,670 --> 00:18:48,240 S1: not like he's not even trying to build a case. 375 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,800 S1: He's just writing a letter. He's just saying, this is 376 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:51,919 S1: matter of fact. 377 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,760 S6: Right? He's just. He is just. In other words, you 378 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,760 S6: could you could easily. What we always say when you're 379 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,560 S6: working in investigations like this and you're reading a statement 380 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,320 S6: from the past, is ask yourself like, what are the 381 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,600 S6: optional words? What are the adjectives and adverbs? Those are 382 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,520 S6: important because you don't need to use those if you're 383 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,480 S6: using them. It's telling me something. How are you using pronouns? 384 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,520 S6: How are you compressing time? How are you expanding time? 385 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,399 S6: What's your verb tenses? These are things we look at 386 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,160 S6: in forensic statement analysis, and we always ask this question. 387 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,919 S6: Given all the ways you could have said this, why 388 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,240 S6: are you saying it this way? He could have led 389 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,560 S6: with that. He could have said, you know, guys, we 390 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,479 S6: got lots of living witnesses here. You know, he's not 391 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:26,880 S6: doing that. 392 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:27,280 S1: No. 393 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,639 S6: He's simply going down the order in which Jesus appeared 394 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,840 S6: to people, and he gets to himself and he says. 395 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:35,200 S1: The least. 396 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,760 S6: Last of all, as to one untimely, why is he 397 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,560 S6: untimely born? Well, I think what really means is he 398 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:41,800 S6: wishes he was part of that group. 399 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,560 S1: Yes he does. Yes, he. 400 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,760 S6: Comes to life as spiritually in an untimely way. 401 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,560 S1: Well, I think and I think he's saying, man here, 402 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,600 S1: you know, I'm Tribe of Benjamin, circumcised the eighth day. Man, 403 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,760 S1: I wasn't in the stream that got to see this 404 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,480 S1: whole thing, right? It's just so cool. Okay. J. Warner Wallace, 405 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:03,399 S1: our guest right now. Get your questions in (800) 555-7898. All right. 406 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,159 S1: We're going to have to go lightning round here. J 407 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,520 S1: Warner they're starting to really come in. 800 555 7898 408 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,360 S1: somebody texted in. Is there a best Scripture verse or 409 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,960 S1: messages to share with non-believers. And it kind of parallels 410 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,480 S1: with what Steven, first time caller in Illinois is saying. 411 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:21,800 S1: What's your question, Steven? 412 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,360 S8: Yes. My question is that if I if I am 413 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:31,600 S8: a Christian, like the detectives, former colleagues who have faith 414 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:35,920 S8: and belief, but not I don't carry around an evidential 415 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:41,080 S8: playbook to explain to non-believers what advice can I take 416 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:46,129 S8: from from the detective Uh uh, how can I use 417 00:20:46,130 --> 00:20:50,090 S8: my knowledge of scripture or or further reading of Scripture 418 00:20:50,090 --> 00:20:53,930 S8: or anything to develop an evidential playbook so that I 419 00:20:53,930 --> 00:20:57,090 S8: don't come across as the people he's asked that have 420 00:20:57,090 --> 00:21:00,210 S8: those really lame number one and number two answers. 421 00:21:00,250 --> 00:21:03,650 S1: Stephen, that is a great question. And you know what? 422 00:21:03,690 --> 00:21:07,130 S1: To be fair here, Jay Warner, you're ripping off facts 423 00:21:07,130 --> 00:21:10,410 S1: and stats that some people aren't wired to do this. 424 00:21:10,410 --> 00:21:12,369 S1: I don't care if they sat down for a month 425 00:21:12,369 --> 00:21:13,450 S1: of Sundays, bro. 426 00:21:14,410 --> 00:21:16,730 S6: Yeah, no you're right. And here's what I would say. Um, 427 00:21:16,770 --> 00:21:18,370 S6: it's I people always say, well, how do I help 428 00:21:18,369 --> 00:21:20,889 S6: my kids? How do I, how do I accomplish this? Well, 429 00:21:20,890 --> 00:21:23,050 S6: here's what I would say. There are some places in 430 00:21:23,050 --> 00:21:25,410 S6: your life right now where you are already able to 431 00:21:25,410 --> 00:21:28,010 S6: do this. It's just not for Christianity. So as we 432 00:21:28,010 --> 00:21:30,330 S6: get ready for the NFL draft, there are people already 433 00:21:30,369 --> 00:21:31,730 S6: who are going to say, well, I think this guy 434 00:21:31,730 --> 00:21:33,810 S6: should go first, second, third. They can make a case 435 00:21:33,810 --> 00:21:35,650 S6: for why this guy is so great at the combine, 436 00:21:35,650 --> 00:21:37,810 S6: blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. They didn't set 437 00:21:37,810 --> 00:21:41,050 S6: out to do that. They're just so interested they can't 438 00:21:41,050 --> 00:21:43,379 S6: help but do it. So I think a lot of 439 00:21:43,380 --> 00:21:45,700 S6: it is, is I'm just geeked out about this stuff. 440 00:21:45,700 --> 00:21:47,540 S6: And because I'm geeked out about this stuff, this is 441 00:21:47,540 --> 00:21:49,659 S6: how it emerges. Well, so a lot of it is 442 00:21:49,660 --> 00:21:50,939 S6: just going to be like saying, hey, what is it 443 00:21:50,940 --> 00:21:54,180 S6: right now that's distracting you? Where is your geekdom? Okay. 444 00:21:54,220 --> 00:21:57,379 S6: Because it's probably in something. It's in the next Netflix series. 445 00:21:57,380 --> 00:22:00,379 S6: It's in something that you've already researched, that you're interested in, 446 00:22:00,420 --> 00:22:03,060 S6: that you could make a case for. We typically can 447 00:22:03,060 --> 00:22:06,020 S6: make a case for our favorite team better than we 448 00:22:06,020 --> 00:22:08,980 S6: can make a case for our faith. We pass on 449 00:22:08,980 --> 00:22:12,300 S6: our fanship. If your green Bay Packer family you're a 450 00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:15,419 S6: green Bay Packer family, and you can do this automatically. 451 00:22:15,420 --> 00:22:18,300 S6: So here's what I would say. Start by engaging people 452 00:22:18,340 --> 00:22:19,939 S6: because you're going to find out what their questions are, 453 00:22:19,940 --> 00:22:21,179 S6: and you're not going to be able to answer those 454 00:22:21,180 --> 00:22:23,260 S6: right away. Okay. So I'm going to get back to 455 00:22:23,260 --> 00:22:26,300 S6: you on that. And one step at a time, you 456 00:22:26,340 --> 00:22:28,700 S6: make a case for what you believe based on what 457 00:22:28,700 --> 00:22:31,619 S6: people are asking you. Part of the problem is, is 458 00:22:31,619 --> 00:22:36,580 S6: that we are so unevangelized that, that we don't often 459 00:22:36,580 --> 00:22:38,939 S6: get in conversations with others to even see what the 460 00:22:38,940 --> 00:22:42,469 S6: questions are. And we've never examined. We surround ourselves with 461 00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:45,310 S6: people who are just like us, who don't ask any questions, 462 00:22:45,310 --> 00:22:47,270 S6: and we're not engaging the world. And you can do this, 463 00:22:47,270 --> 00:22:48,909 S6: by the way, even on social media, right? If you 464 00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:52,469 S6: got something as simple as Facebook. So for the ancient people. Right. 465 00:22:52,510 --> 00:22:55,869 S6: Or whatever the platform you like. But start talking about 466 00:22:55,869 --> 00:22:58,109 S6: your faith and trust me, the questions will come and 467 00:22:58,109 --> 00:23:01,350 S6: then you're going to become a better question. Answerer. 468 00:23:01,869 --> 00:23:07,350 S1: Uh, you know what, Jay Warner? I appreciate that. I 469 00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:10,429 S1: think you are right. I think there's a certain geek 470 00:23:10,430 --> 00:23:13,590 S1: factor that we need to get around this. And just 471 00:23:13,590 --> 00:23:17,350 S1: your your exposure in my life has got me geeking 472 00:23:17,350 --> 00:23:20,670 S1: out on this, and to use your term, uh, but 473 00:23:20,670 --> 00:23:23,590 S1: to me, uh, let me ask it this way. Have 474 00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:25,790 S1: you come up with and we're going to point people 475 00:23:25,790 --> 00:23:28,670 S1: to your site here, but have you come up with 476 00:23:28,670 --> 00:23:32,710 S1: any tools that kind of collapse? Um, some of these 477 00:23:32,750 --> 00:23:38,189 S1: evidences into a almost a cheat sheet of sorts or. No. 478 00:23:39,670 --> 00:23:41,960 S6: Uh, well, you know, if people write books, we write 479 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,199 S6: books because we want to kind of consolidate our image 480 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,760 S6: in a way to present. Yeah, it's like a cheat sheet. 481 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,280 S6: But I'll be honest, I always say, don't buy someone's 482 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,520 S6: book until you've exhausted everything they're willing to give you 483 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,520 S6: for free. And so everything you need to know is 484 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,800 S6: on our website for free. You don't need to buy 485 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,440 S6: a book. But but I'll be honest that that we 486 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,080 S6: have to be start to get interested. So ask yourself 487 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,000 S6: the very basic questions. Ask yourself this. If you've got kids, 488 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,200 S6: what are their questions you don't think you know? Listen, 489 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,160 S6: if you don't know your kids questions about their faith, 490 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,280 S6: that's a great place to start and just ask those. 491 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,200 S6: If you want to know, like what? Five questions do 492 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,520 S6: I need to answer? Ask your kids, where are you 493 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,920 S6: struggling with this? What? What is it that gives you doubt? 494 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,400 S6: What is it that gives you? Like, where is it? 495 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,160 S6: Because I want to be able to answer those for myself, 496 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:25,560 S6: and I want to be able to answer those for 497 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,240 S6: you and for others. So I'd like to just know 498 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,160 S6: what your questions are you struggling with? Because I want 499 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:32,840 S6: to learn how to answer those. I want to learn 500 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,040 S6: if maybe those are deal killers for us, maybe that 501 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,000 S6: should exclude Christianity as a worldview. Let's find out together. 502 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,370 S6: So is this a matter of you engaging the questions 503 00:24:42,369 --> 00:24:45,330 S6: one at a time? Now, look, this is like every 504 00:24:45,330 --> 00:24:48,489 S6: other cumulative case. On any cold case, it's death by 505 00:24:48,530 --> 00:24:51,090 S6: a thousand paper cuts. Yeah, there's not a single piece 506 00:24:51,090 --> 00:24:53,930 S6: of evidence I can give you. It's the cumulative weight 507 00:24:53,930 --> 00:24:57,210 S6: of evidence that that for me, persuaded me. And it's 508 00:24:57,210 --> 00:25:00,210 S6: true for every jury trial. Yes. So? So just be prepared. 509 00:25:00,210 --> 00:25:04,370 S6: There is no silver bullet. That's why continuing geekdom is 510 00:25:04,369 --> 00:25:07,250 S6: actually the solution. I love it because you just constantly 511 00:25:07,250 --> 00:25:07,730 S6: lean in. 512 00:25:07,770 --> 00:25:11,850 S1: Yeah. Uh, listen, Jay Warner has some free content and 513 00:25:11,850 --> 00:25:15,050 S1: awesome stuff and links to books that he's written. So 514 00:25:15,090 --> 00:25:19,490 S1: text the word case, get geeked out about the right stuff. 515 00:25:19,890 --> 00:25:22,050 S1: And I would encourage you to pray that God would 516 00:25:22,050 --> 00:25:25,690 S1: create that geekdom in you. And I mean this. Ask God, 517 00:25:25,690 --> 00:25:30,250 S1: get on your knees and say redirect. What captures my fascination? 518 00:25:30,609 --> 00:25:33,889 S1: I believe he'll answer that prayer. Text the word case 519 00:25:33,890 --> 00:25:40,889 S1: to 800 555 7898 800 555 7898. Well, here's a 520 00:25:40,890 --> 00:25:48,410 S1: question that young people are asking. What's the difference between Islam, Christianity? Hinduism? 521 00:25:48,570 --> 00:25:52,010 S1: Come on. Aren't they all paths that lead to God? 522 00:25:52,609 --> 00:25:53,810 S1: What do you say, Jay Warner? 523 00:25:54,369 --> 00:25:56,489 S6: Well, they could all be wrong for sure, but they 524 00:25:56,490 --> 00:25:59,490 S6: can't all be right. And here's why. They make competing claims. 525 00:25:59,810 --> 00:26:02,410 S6: So if you believe that Jesus rose from the dead, 526 00:26:02,730 --> 00:26:04,570 S6: died on a cross, and rose from the dead, you 527 00:26:04,609 --> 00:26:06,770 S6: can't hold that claim under Islam. Now, it could be 528 00:26:06,770 --> 00:26:10,010 S6: that Islam's claims about Jesus as the wisest, most important 529 00:26:10,010 --> 00:26:13,210 S6: prophet in the history of prophets. Even more important than Muhammad. 530 00:26:13,530 --> 00:26:15,129 S6: That's their claim. And that could be true. But they 531 00:26:15,130 --> 00:26:17,050 S6: don't believe he died on the cross and rose from 532 00:26:17,050 --> 00:26:19,770 S6: the grave. So we could both be wrong about that. 533 00:26:19,770 --> 00:26:22,129 S6: Or one of us could be right and the other 534 00:26:22,130 --> 00:26:25,090 S6: is wrong. But we both can't be right because we're 535 00:26:25,090 --> 00:26:28,250 S6: making competing claims. And this is true for all of 536 00:26:28,250 --> 00:26:33,490 S6: the theistic and spiritual worldviews. Okay, they're all making competing claims, 537 00:26:33,490 --> 00:26:35,570 S6: which means we're going to be forced to say, well, 538 00:26:35,770 --> 00:26:37,730 S6: every one of these paths leads. It's like saying, okay, 539 00:26:37,770 --> 00:26:40,459 S6: I've got directions to Jim Wallace's house. All right, but 540 00:26:40,460 --> 00:26:43,140 S6: they're all different directions. Now, they could all be wrong. 541 00:26:43,140 --> 00:26:44,860 S6: Or one of them could be right. But to say 542 00:26:44,859 --> 00:26:46,459 S6: that they're all right is going to put you in 543 00:26:46,460 --> 00:26:49,380 S6: completely different locations, so we can't that kind of claim 544 00:26:49,380 --> 00:26:51,619 S6: is just nonsensical. So we have to actually ask the 545 00:26:51,619 --> 00:26:54,300 S6: question first. Do we know which of these is correct? 546 00:26:54,340 --> 00:26:56,939 S6: How would we test those? And this is testable. You 547 00:26:56,940 --> 00:26:59,659 S6: have to ask yourself is the document reliable like an 548 00:26:59,660 --> 00:27:02,580 S6: eyewitness account? Was it written early enough to have been 549 00:27:02,580 --> 00:27:06,900 S6: written by eyewitnesses? That's going to eliminate Islam. Those documents 550 00:27:06,900 --> 00:27:09,580 S6: are not written early enough, does it? Can it be 551 00:27:09,580 --> 00:27:12,540 S6: corroborated in some way? Can it? Can it? Has it 552 00:27:12,540 --> 00:27:17,460 S6: changed over time? Has the claim changed over time? And finally, 553 00:27:17,580 --> 00:27:20,100 S6: does the person writing it have something in it for 554 00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:22,740 S6: him in the areas of sex, money or power? Because 555 00:27:22,780 --> 00:27:26,379 S6: that's what motivates all lies, sex, money and power. So 556 00:27:26,380 --> 00:27:28,460 S6: when you look at those four criteria, that's either going 557 00:27:28,460 --> 00:27:30,500 S6: to encourage you to to hold on to the worldview 558 00:27:30,540 --> 00:27:33,420 S6: you have or to abandon it, because that's how we 559 00:27:33,420 --> 00:27:35,420 S6: determine if eyewitness accounts are reliable. 560 00:27:35,460 --> 00:27:38,230 S1: Yeah. Love it. Quick question. I have for you. A 561 00:27:38,270 --> 00:27:41,750 S1: lot of people look at Muhammad and look at some 562 00:27:41,790 --> 00:27:47,270 S1: of his lifestyle. They look at, uh, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, 563 00:27:47,270 --> 00:27:50,230 S1: Joseph Smith perjured himself in a court of law. Is 564 00:27:50,230 --> 00:27:53,350 S1: it fair game to look at the character of the 565 00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:58,550 S1: author of these religions, or is that off, off point? 566 00:27:58,950 --> 00:28:04,030 S6: No, it's absolutely in a criminal trial. Absolutely. It's fair game. Like, 567 00:28:04,030 --> 00:28:05,389 S6: why would this guy be lying to me? Well, he 568 00:28:05,390 --> 00:28:07,310 S6: has he benefited in one of these three ways. He 569 00:28:07,310 --> 00:28:09,630 S6: got rich off of it. He got, uh, girls off 570 00:28:09,630 --> 00:28:12,830 S6: of it, or he got, um, you know, power. He 571 00:28:12,830 --> 00:28:14,950 S6: got authority. He was respected because of it. And this 572 00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:17,750 S6: is the problem with, I think. And look, by the way, 573 00:28:17,750 --> 00:28:20,910 S6: if somebody has one of those three motives or all three, 574 00:28:21,270 --> 00:28:24,270 S6: does that mean he's lying? No, but it does mean 575 00:28:24,270 --> 00:28:26,510 S6: we should look more carefully to see if everything else 576 00:28:26,510 --> 00:28:29,109 S6: lines up. It's a pointer. These kinds of things point 577 00:28:29,150 --> 00:28:31,830 S6: us to where deception might lie. And that's what we 578 00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:34,150 S6: do here. What? What in the world did the disciples 579 00:28:34,150 --> 00:28:36,270 S6: get out of this? Now I will say some of 580 00:28:36,270 --> 00:28:39,560 S6: the skeptics will say, well, they got famous. Really? The 581 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,760 S6: kind of fame that leads to your infamous maybe. But 582 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,600 S6: but the problem is, is that someone like Paul, who 583 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,640 S6: wrote most of the New Testament, already had the authority 584 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,720 S6: and respect of his peers before he jumped into this 585 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,480 S6: worldview that was going to cost him his life. So 586 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,719 S6: why not just stay where you are? Yeah. With the 587 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,640 S6: larger group that's more established within the Roman Empire than 588 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,040 S6: the Christians were. But this is my whole point, is 589 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,360 S6: that they lack the kind of motive. Joseph had motive 590 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,120 S6: in all three areas, right? He he took, uh, dozens 591 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,160 S6: of wives. Nobody wants to talk about that. Uh, he he, uh, 592 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,440 S6: he said that he wrote in the scripture that the 593 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,640 S6: prophet will be supported by the people. And and he 594 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,480 S6: at one point was the he had the second largest 595 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,800 S6: army on the North American continent, next to the United 596 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,440 S6: States Army. So in terms of sex, money and power, 597 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,320 S6: there was a motive for all three. Does that mean 598 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,479 S6: he's lying? No, but it points me now. And now 599 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,640 S6: I know I've got to investigate what his claims are. 600 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,479 S6: I think the problem I have with the claims are, 601 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,050 S6: is that none of these claims comport with reality. Remember, 602 00:29:38,090 --> 00:29:42,170 S6: our worldview is not like Hinduism or other worldviews. Our worldview, 603 00:29:42,210 --> 00:29:45,850 S6: as well as Mormonism, is grounded in historical data. If 604 00:29:45,850 --> 00:29:47,890 S6: the stuff didn't happen in the first century in the 605 00:29:47,890 --> 00:29:51,530 S6: Jerusalem region that is reported in the New Testament Gospels, 606 00:29:51,530 --> 00:29:53,770 S6: we can walk away from them. And if you've got 607 00:29:53,770 --> 00:29:56,850 S6: a thousand years of history on the North American continent 608 00:29:56,850 --> 00:30:00,330 S6: that didn't actually occur, it's fair to walk away from it. 609 00:30:00,370 --> 00:30:03,970 S1: Yeah. Phenomenal stuff. J Warner Wallace, you want good content, 610 00:30:03,970 --> 00:30:10,570 S1: text the word case, one word case to 805 55 7898. 611 00:30:10,610 --> 00:30:12,370 S1: He said it before you buy a book, get all 612 00:30:12,410 --> 00:30:14,890 S1: the free stuff first. Well, this is his free stuff. 613 00:30:14,890 --> 00:30:19,130 S1: 805 55, 78, 98 going back the phone lines. Oh, 614 00:30:19,170 --> 00:30:22,850 S1: here's an interesting one. Chico. First time caller. Pittsburgh. But 615 00:30:22,850 --> 00:30:25,410 S1: driving truck. What's your question for Jay Warner? 616 00:30:26,410 --> 00:30:28,890 S9: Good morning sir. Yeah I'm in Tennessee right now. Truck 617 00:30:28,930 --> 00:30:32,570 S9: driver here's my question. The Shroud of Turin I've studied 618 00:30:32,570 --> 00:30:35,210 S9: it since I was a kid. What is the impact 619 00:30:35,410 --> 00:30:38,610 S9: of it upon us as Christians and the fallen world? 620 00:30:38,610 --> 00:30:41,050 S9: And how can we use that as a tool to witness? 621 00:30:41,650 --> 00:30:44,530 S1: Okay, what do you say? This is a big one, man. 622 00:30:44,570 --> 00:30:47,490 S1: It's come up again here recently. Jay Warner. 623 00:30:47,770 --> 00:30:49,850 S6: Yeah, well, I've been asked to write something about this, 624 00:30:49,850 --> 00:30:51,970 S6: and I'm going to do a short podcast on this 625 00:30:52,010 --> 00:30:55,090 S6: in the next couple of weeks. But but for me, I'll. 626 00:30:55,450 --> 00:30:57,930 S1: Define what that is first for people that don't know. 627 00:30:58,210 --> 00:31:00,890 S6: Okay. The shroud is basically a linen cloth. It's made 628 00:31:00,890 --> 00:31:03,890 S6: of several materials that reportedly is the cloth that was 629 00:31:03,890 --> 00:31:08,170 S6: placed over Jesus. And there are some transfer biological transfer 630 00:31:08,170 --> 00:31:11,090 S6: on this cloth, allegedly, that takes the image of a 631 00:31:11,090 --> 00:31:14,530 S6: man who's been crucified. And it so it has been 632 00:31:14,810 --> 00:31:19,370 S6: typically historically attributed to, um, to the burial cloth of 633 00:31:19,370 --> 00:31:22,490 S6: Jesus that has actually been somehow preserved. Okay. And I 634 00:31:22,490 --> 00:31:25,530 S6: know that people like Lee Strobel, um, my good friend 635 00:31:25,530 --> 00:31:29,729 S6: Gary Habermas, these are folks who, um, who really love 636 00:31:29,730 --> 00:31:32,770 S6: this Shroud of Turin as a piece of evidence. Okay, now, 637 00:31:32,770 --> 00:31:34,090 S6: this is where you're going to be upset with me. 638 00:31:34,090 --> 00:31:36,740 S6: I'm not as convinced. Okay, I'm just not. And I'll 639 00:31:36,740 --> 00:31:38,940 S6: tell you why. I think that there's motive in the 640 00:31:38,980 --> 00:31:42,380 S6: people who first claimed that this was what it is. 641 00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:47,180 S6: That was definitely motivated financially and from an authority power 642 00:31:47,220 --> 00:31:50,460 S6: perspective to say something that's not true now. It may 643 00:31:50,460 --> 00:31:54,380 S6: very well be. I'm probably like a, uh, maybe 55, 644 00:31:54,420 --> 00:31:58,180 S6: 45 against it. And here's why. Look, even if it's 645 00:31:58,220 --> 00:32:00,860 S6: this is there's too many claims you can make against 646 00:32:00,860 --> 00:32:05,100 S6: the shroud that have merit. There just are. And then 647 00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:07,380 S6: it's a battle of competing claims. Here's what I've learned. 648 00:32:07,380 --> 00:32:12,700 S6: If I've got a 51 piece case against a particular defendant, 649 00:32:13,220 --> 00:32:15,459 S6: and one of those pieces is like, it could go 650 00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:18,820 S6: either way. I don't use it in the case proper. 651 00:32:19,060 --> 00:32:22,540 S6: I use the 50 pieces that are strong, that are irrefutable. 652 00:32:22,700 --> 00:32:25,060 S6: And I leave the 51st piece out if they want 653 00:32:25,060 --> 00:32:27,020 S6: to bring it in, great. I'll show how it can 654 00:32:27,020 --> 00:32:30,540 S6: also fit into our case. But I don't use it 655 00:32:30,540 --> 00:32:34,270 S6: as part of the case proper because it's attackable and 656 00:32:34,270 --> 00:32:36,510 S6: defense attorneys are good at that. And that has happened 657 00:32:36,510 --> 00:32:39,270 S6: to the shroud. And as often as I read the 658 00:32:39,310 --> 00:32:41,190 S6: both sides of the reports, I'm like, yeah, I can 659 00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:43,790 S6: see the case against and I can see the case for. 660 00:32:44,070 --> 00:32:46,470 S6: That's why I would never use it. Because it because 661 00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:49,110 S6: if you've got a case against that has any credibility, 662 00:32:49,310 --> 00:32:51,670 S6: then it's a weak piece. Now if somebody else brings 663 00:32:51,670 --> 00:32:53,710 S6: it up, you can show why. Well wait a minute. 664 00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:56,830 S6: There's a lot of data that would. This may be real. Yeah, 665 00:32:56,830 --> 00:32:58,670 S6: but I'm not going to use it out of modesty, 666 00:32:58,710 --> 00:33:01,510 S6: in a evidential modesty, because I think there are better 667 00:33:01,510 --> 00:33:02,469 S6: ways to make the case. 668 00:33:02,510 --> 00:33:05,350 S1: Yeah. Love it. Jay Warner, our guest right now going 669 00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:09,830 S1: to go back to the phone lines here. 800 555 7898. 670 00:33:09,870 --> 00:33:14,270 S1: Last few minutes of our Ask the expert last Fort Lauderdale, Florida. 671 00:33:14,270 --> 00:33:16,670 S1: Thanks for holding on. What's your question for Jay Warner? 672 00:33:18,070 --> 00:33:21,030 S10: Hey, how are you guys doing? Jay? Thank you for 673 00:33:21,030 --> 00:33:21,910 S10: being on the program. 674 00:33:22,670 --> 00:33:23,510 S6: Glad to be here. 675 00:33:24,430 --> 00:33:27,750 S10: Uh, yeah. Just, uh, it's more of a comment, and 676 00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:30,470 S10: I wanted to get Jay's opinion. I suppose a question 677 00:33:30,470 --> 00:33:34,760 S10: and an answer. Um, so in apologetics is can be 678 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,560 S10: so difficult to try to bring the facts to, to 679 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,600 S10: play and bring Scripture into play and prove something factually, 680 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,160 S10: especially if you have a lot of knowledge in Scripture, 681 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,640 S10: like the gentleman that had called a little earlier. But 682 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,960 S10: I just wanted to get your opinion about the testimony 683 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:54,120 S10: because they didn't deny Scripture. They can deny the validity 684 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,120 S10: of the of the Bible. They can deny so many 685 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,000 S10: things when you're talking to someone that doesn't know the Lord, 686 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,440 S10: but the one thing they can't deny is the testimony. 687 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,040 S10: And as in revelation, it says, you know, they overcame 688 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,040 S10: by the blood of the lamb. Some other I just 689 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,240 S10: wanted to get your thoughts on on using the testimony 690 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,680 S10: as opposed to biblical facts and scripture. Um, I found 691 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,399 S10: myself that when I do that, um, you just can't 692 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,240 S10: deny what God is doing. I was blind, and honestly. Yeah. 693 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,640 S1: Lest I think we got it, I think the key 694 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,640 S1: word there, as opposed to it's not either or, is 695 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:25,360 S1: it J Warner. 696 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,280 S6: No, it's a both end. And I always tell people 697 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,319 S6: I don't really focus so much on my testimony so 698 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,450 S6: much as I focus on the case. And here's why. 699 00:34:33,610 --> 00:34:36,890 S6: Because my Mormon family, six brothers and sisters raised LDS. 700 00:34:36,930 --> 00:34:39,690 S6: They've got great testimony. Doesn't make what they believe true. 701 00:34:39,730 --> 00:34:43,290 S6: That's a very LDS approach. You know, they actually even 702 00:34:43,290 --> 00:34:45,650 S6: trained the missionaries to resort to their testimony. 703 00:34:45,650 --> 00:34:48,090 S1: So burning in the bosom, right? J Warner. 704 00:34:48,130 --> 00:34:50,770 S6: Yeah. And so here's what I would say about testimony. Testimony, 705 00:34:50,770 --> 00:34:52,530 S6: as you see it in Scripture, is very different because 706 00:34:52,530 --> 00:34:56,890 S6: those people were eye witnesses who were testifying to what 707 00:34:56,890 --> 00:34:59,529 S6: they saw about Jesus. Go through the book of acts 708 00:34:59,530 --> 00:35:03,970 S6: and tell me, when you see somebody simply, uh, tell uh, 709 00:35:04,130 --> 00:35:07,850 S6: somebody else, uh, apostle tell somebody else about how his 710 00:35:07,850 --> 00:35:08,690 S6: life was changed. 711 00:35:08,890 --> 00:35:10,930 S1: Well, Paul, Paul did to Agrippa. 712 00:35:11,489 --> 00:35:13,049 S6: Well, yes, but what is he talking about? He talks 713 00:35:13,050 --> 00:35:15,210 S6: about how he was. He appeared. He appeared to him 714 00:35:15,210 --> 00:35:17,530 S6: on the road. It's an eyewitness account. 715 00:35:17,530 --> 00:35:21,930 S1: Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right. Even that has eyewitness account. Right, right. 716 00:35:22,010 --> 00:35:23,810 S6: And so and so for us, you know, we we 717 00:35:23,810 --> 00:35:27,290 S6: are not the eyewitnesses who actually saw Jesus. We've had 718 00:35:27,290 --> 00:35:30,529 S6: an experience that we attribute to Jesus. Totally get it. 719 00:35:30,530 --> 00:35:32,819 S6: It's not an either or. Do both. But here's what 720 00:35:32,820 --> 00:35:35,580 S6: I would say. What what LDS believers cannot do is 721 00:35:35,580 --> 00:35:38,259 S6: give you their personal testimony and then tie it to 722 00:35:38,300 --> 00:35:41,939 S6: the case. The facts for we could. That is the 723 00:35:41,940 --> 00:35:44,859 S6: one unique way we could use testimony that no other 724 00:35:44,860 --> 00:35:47,700 S6: group could do. If what we believe is factually true, 725 00:35:47,739 --> 00:35:50,420 S6: we could offer our personal testimony and then give the 726 00:35:50,420 --> 00:35:52,580 S6: data so that I can say, this is this is why, 727 00:35:52,620 --> 00:35:55,060 S6: by the way, I know it's not just an experience 728 00:35:55,060 --> 00:35:58,100 S6: I had. It's not just my imagination. It's tied to 729 00:35:58,140 --> 00:36:01,460 S6: this data because for everybody else, they've had an experience. 730 00:36:01,460 --> 00:36:03,739 S6: I'm not going to deny they've had an experience. The 731 00:36:03,739 --> 00:36:06,420 S6: question is, is it tied to something real in the 732 00:36:06,420 --> 00:36:09,140 S6: spiritual realm? So that's why I want us to be 733 00:36:09,180 --> 00:36:12,100 S6: able to do both of these things instead of just 734 00:36:12,100 --> 00:36:12,740 S6: do one. 735 00:36:12,780 --> 00:36:15,540 S1: And he's not just leaving you hanging. Here's the link. 736 00:36:15,580 --> 00:36:21,219 S1: You want some cold case facts? You want some data points. 737 00:36:21,540 --> 00:36:25,580 S1: Text the word case. It's free. The content is right there. 738 00:36:25,580 --> 00:36:33,779 S1: Text case to 800 555 7898 800 555 7898. A 739 00:36:33,820 --> 00:36:36,700 S1: few more questions for J. Warner. Wallace straight ahead. 740 00:36:37,660 --> 00:36:40,859 S7: Get in the know with life's biggest questions. It's Ask 741 00:36:40,900 --> 00:36:42,980 S7: the Experts week with Carl and crew. 742 00:36:44,340 --> 00:36:48,100 S1: I totally mix things up here. We've asked all of 743 00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:52,580 S1: our experts this week, and they've all been like, absolutely, 744 00:36:52,620 --> 00:36:56,620 S1: you count it done to just jump in and explain 745 00:36:56,620 --> 00:37:01,300 S1: from their heart why in the world. Moody radio next 746 00:37:01,300 --> 00:37:04,339 S1: week we start in earnest, guys. 4 million bucks. We're 747 00:37:04,340 --> 00:37:08,500 S1: listener supported around here. Build a case for me, my man. Why? 748 00:37:08,540 --> 00:37:11,860 S1: Moody radio next week. Let's go. J Warner, build a case. 749 00:37:12,219 --> 00:37:14,419 S6: Well, I can tell you that this is a like 750 00:37:14,460 --> 00:37:17,180 S6: other cases, our influencing culture is death by a thousand 751 00:37:17,180 --> 00:37:20,339 S6: paper cuts, right? Every every little piece helps. But I 752 00:37:20,340 --> 00:37:23,340 S6: can tell you that the strength of podcasting right now 753 00:37:23,380 --> 00:37:27,060 S6: demonstrates the strength of radio and why radio is so important. 754 00:37:27,100 --> 00:37:29,219 S6: Because it's not just that we're reaching people alive, and 755 00:37:29,219 --> 00:37:31,350 S6: there are people right now who are, like you said, 756 00:37:31,390 --> 00:37:34,109 S6: how many? The last two callers, they're driving and they're 757 00:37:34,110 --> 00:37:36,790 S6: hearing they're hearing the gospel and they're being strengthened and equipped. 758 00:37:36,790 --> 00:37:40,190 S6: And by the way, we're not just empty vessels. We're 759 00:37:40,230 --> 00:37:43,990 S6: either filling up with something good or something bad, and 760 00:37:43,989 --> 00:37:45,549 S6: we have to make a choice about what it is 761 00:37:45,590 --> 00:37:47,590 S6: we are putting in our minds, like we talked about before. 762 00:37:47,590 --> 00:37:50,270 S6: What are you geeked out about? So what we need is, 763 00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:54,709 S6: is people to step up and contribute in audio is 764 00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:58,069 S6: an incredible way. For example, you guys not only do 765 00:37:58,070 --> 00:37:59,950 S6: this live thing that as soon as it's done, you're 766 00:37:59,950 --> 00:38:02,109 S6: posting it as a podcast. And I'll bet you you've 767 00:38:02,110 --> 00:38:05,109 S6: got a huge listenership because if they can't hear you live, 768 00:38:05,150 --> 00:38:09,590 S6: then they are listening to the podcast. Content is still king, 769 00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:11,830 S6: and there are tons of people out there who are 770 00:38:11,830 --> 00:38:15,470 S6: producing content which is not glorifying honoring God. It's not 771 00:38:15,870 --> 00:38:17,910 S6: we have to make a decision as a culture like, 772 00:38:17,910 --> 00:38:19,710 S6: what are we? What are we going to watch? What 773 00:38:19,710 --> 00:38:21,629 S6: are we going to listen to? What are we going 774 00:38:21,630 --> 00:38:23,549 S6: to support in front of our kids? What do they 775 00:38:23,590 --> 00:38:27,070 S6: hear us listening to? So if and we're all searching 776 00:38:27,070 --> 00:38:29,920 S6: for that content, well, once you find it, you ought 777 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,560 S6: to do something to support it, because this doesn't just 778 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,440 S6: happen in a vacuum. And so I think in the end, 779 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,279 S6: what's important to me anyway, is to be a part 780 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,839 S6: of content creation that changes the conversation. And that's what 781 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,200 S6: you guys do. So yeah, is it worth supporting? Well, 782 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,080 S6: what else is more worthy to support than content creation 783 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,120 S6: that changes and turns the conversation toward God? That's the 784 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:50,120 S6: stuff we should be supporting. 785 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,520 S1: Wow. Jean Warner, I love you and I appreciate that. 786 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,160 S1: By the way, if you're not going to be here 787 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,360 S1: next week or maybe the Spirit of God just bumped 788 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,879 S1: your cup and you're like, huh, gotta do it right now. 789 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:07,800 S1: 800 696 24 there's folks there right now, 800, 696 24. 790 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,680 S1: Or you can go online to Moody Radio Dot. That's 791 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,000 S1: Moody radio.org. And I want to thank you ahead of 792 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:15,839 S1: time that your hearts are going to be warmed up 793 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,439 S1: to have a just a record setting next week for 794 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,960 S1: spring share. We love you. All right. We're going to 795 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,880 S1: go back to the phone lines right now. Carol Dayton, Ohio. 796 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,040 S1: What's your question for Jay? Warner. Wallace. 797 00:39:27,690 --> 00:39:34,569 S11: Oh, thanks. Um. Today's culture often promotes belief and faith. Um, 798 00:39:34,570 --> 00:39:39,290 S11: so that everybody has it, um, and according to the verse, 799 00:39:39,290 --> 00:39:41,930 S11: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. 800 00:39:42,370 --> 00:39:45,250 S11: And my friends added to that. Be still and know 801 00:39:45,250 --> 00:39:48,969 S11: that I am God. And I counter that with, well, 802 00:39:49,010 --> 00:39:55,010 S11: even the demons believe. Um, how do you differentiate, um, 803 00:39:55,170 --> 00:39:59,170 S11: true belief, um, when there's no desire to study the 804 00:39:59,170 --> 00:40:03,569 S11: word or there's no production of fruit yet they, um, 805 00:40:03,610 --> 00:40:06,529 S11: pride themselves on true beliefs. 806 00:40:07,690 --> 00:40:10,170 S1: Well, so you got two guys loaded for bear on 807 00:40:10,170 --> 00:40:11,850 S1: this one. Go ahead, J. Warner. 808 00:40:12,170 --> 00:40:13,770 S6: We've got so little time to do this. So this 809 00:40:13,770 --> 00:40:15,770 S6: is this is do the lightning part of this. Okay. 810 00:40:15,810 --> 00:40:19,970 S6: Number one I differentiate differentiate between belief in and belief 811 00:40:19,969 --> 00:40:22,089 S6: that belief that is what you're talking about. It's this 812 00:40:22,090 --> 00:40:24,730 S6: idea that I believe that something is true. And I 813 00:40:24,730 --> 00:40:27,219 S6: got to a point after investigating the Gospels that I 814 00:40:27,219 --> 00:40:29,540 S6: had believed that they were telling me the truth about 815 00:40:29,540 --> 00:40:31,460 S6: what happened to Jesus in the first century. But I 816 00:40:31,460 --> 00:40:33,540 S6: was not a believer yet. But if you asked me, 817 00:40:33,580 --> 00:40:35,340 S6: do you believe this stuff? I would have said yes, 818 00:40:35,340 --> 00:40:38,140 S6: but does that mean I have belief in no? So 819 00:40:38,180 --> 00:40:40,739 S6: I use this illustration to mark the difference. I had 820 00:40:40,739 --> 00:40:42,620 S6: a shooting. I was working often involved shootings, and I 821 00:40:42,620 --> 00:40:45,380 S6: had an officer involved in a shooting years ago, and 822 00:40:45,380 --> 00:40:48,460 S6: he was somebody who had selected the vest that we 823 00:40:48,460 --> 00:40:50,940 S6: were wearing as an agency. He was part of that committee. 824 00:40:50,940 --> 00:40:54,260 S6: So he had seen his bulletproof vest, stopped bullets in 825 00:40:54,260 --> 00:40:56,899 S6: the range. And this particular night, a guy gets the 826 00:40:56,900 --> 00:40:59,339 S6: drop on him and is now pointing a gun at 827 00:40:59,340 --> 00:41:02,060 S6: his chest from just a few feet away, and the 828 00:41:02,060 --> 00:41:05,060 S6: officer had to make a decision. Do I jump the guy? 829 00:41:05,100 --> 00:41:06,859 S6: Do I try to do a takeaway maneuver? Do I 830 00:41:06,860 --> 00:41:09,819 S6: try to jump behind my car? And he said, well, no, 831 00:41:09,860 --> 00:41:12,420 S6: I just put this brand new vest on and I'd 832 00:41:12,420 --> 00:41:15,180 S6: seen it stop bullets in the range. So I decided 833 00:41:15,180 --> 00:41:17,380 S6: to just tense up my stomach muscles and take the 834 00:41:17,380 --> 00:41:20,660 S6: first couple of rounds until I could return fire. And 835 00:41:20,660 --> 00:41:24,340 S6: I thought, wow, that's a gutsy call. But it turns 836 00:41:24,340 --> 00:41:27,950 S6: out he moved in that second from belief that to 837 00:41:27,989 --> 00:41:31,069 S6: belief in wow, he had belief that the vest could 838 00:41:31,070 --> 00:41:34,790 S6: stop the bullets, but once he trusted it for his life, 839 00:41:34,910 --> 00:41:38,310 S6: he moved toward belief in. Now, what's interesting about that 840 00:41:38,469 --> 00:41:41,549 S6: is that what caused him to take the step. It 841 00:41:41,550 --> 00:41:45,710 S6: turns out it was his evidential certainty from having seen 842 00:41:45,710 --> 00:41:49,910 S6: the vest stop the bullets. So there's a connection between 843 00:41:49,910 --> 00:41:53,350 S6: your level of evidential certainty. Have you looked at this? 844 00:41:53,350 --> 00:41:55,910 S6: Do you know that it's more than just your wishful thinking? 845 00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:58,670 S6: Because the word hope in Scripture is not wishful thinking. 846 00:41:58,750 --> 00:42:02,510 S6: The word hope in Scripture is used to describe certainty 847 00:42:02,550 --> 00:42:05,430 S6: we have about something we we. It has not yet 848 00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:08,590 S6: come based on the evidence we've been presented so far. 849 00:42:09,110 --> 00:42:12,509 S6: That version of hope can stand in a gunfight, and 850 00:42:12,510 --> 00:42:14,750 S6: that's why we need to help ourselves to look at 851 00:42:14,750 --> 00:42:17,629 S6: the case more deeply. If you can't make a case 852 00:42:17,630 --> 00:42:19,509 S6: for this, trust me, when push comes to shove and 853 00:42:19,510 --> 00:42:21,790 S6: you've got an easy way out, you'll take it. That's 854 00:42:21,790 --> 00:42:24,310 S6: why we need to have belief in not believe that. 855 00:42:24,350 --> 00:42:26,790 S1: Love it. Okay, you got to do this one in 30s. 856 00:42:26,830 --> 00:42:29,230 S1: Question about Muhammad going to heaven. And so I'm going 857 00:42:29,270 --> 00:42:31,750 S1: to broaden this out. What do you do with miracles 858 00:42:31,750 --> 00:42:33,350 S1: from other world religions? 859 00:42:33,870 --> 00:42:36,350 S6: Well, you test all miracles. This is what Jesus would 860 00:42:36,390 --> 00:42:38,589 S6: invite you to test those miracles. His miracles, he said, 861 00:42:38,590 --> 00:42:41,150 S6: John says, were signs that he was the Son of God. 862 00:42:41,150 --> 00:42:43,910 S6: So first, anyone who's alive today who says they are 863 00:42:43,910 --> 00:42:47,030 S6: doing a miracle in the name of Jesus, test it. 864 00:42:47,070 --> 00:42:49,790 S6: Do not trust test right. This is part of what 865 00:42:49,790 --> 00:42:53,830 S6: we we don't trust eyewitnesses. We test eyewitnesses. If they 866 00:42:53,830 --> 00:42:56,670 S6: pass the test, we are instructed to trust them. But 867 00:42:56,670 --> 00:42:59,029 S6: we don't trust them blindly. And this is the claim 868 00:42:59,070 --> 00:43:02,110 S6: of Scripture as well. Remember that everything is in the 869 00:43:02,110 --> 00:43:04,710 S6: power is only in the gospel. The case we make 870 00:43:04,750 --> 00:43:07,229 S6: is simply to clear the weeds so you can hear 871 00:43:07,230 --> 00:43:10,910 S6: the gospel clearly, but there is no power in the case. 872 00:43:10,910 --> 00:43:13,870 S6: The power is in the gospel. The case simply makes 873 00:43:13,870 --> 00:43:16,830 S6: the gospel hearable. And that's what we want to be 874 00:43:16,830 --> 00:43:18,870 S6: able to do, is make a case for Christianity so 875 00:43:18,870 --> 00:43:21,390 S6: the gospel can be heard. The verses that matter are 876 00:43:21,390 --> 00:43:24,600 S6: the gospel verses, but you know you want to have 877 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,600 S6: a case that you can stand in. So when the 878 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,520 S6: tough times come, you will stand calmly in the gunfight. 879 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,879 S1: Yeah, yeah. Beautiful. Okay, here's where we go. Boom! Crew. 880 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,040 S1: Listen to me. Text the word case right now. I 881 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:40,040 S1: want us to begin geeking out on what matters. What's 882 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:46,120 S1: that mean? Realign from cat videos or home fix up 883 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,279 S1: stuff to building a case in your heart for what 884 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:55,359 S1: really matters. Text case to 800 555 7898 everything J. 885 00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:00,400 S1: Warner Wallace has found right there. Text case to 800 886 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:05,879 S1: 555 7898. And then one final banner ad here. We're 887 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,879 S1: going to take all of these segments this week. Put 888 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,960 S1: them in our show cast as J. Warner was just 889 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,799 S1: referring to. So text the word show. We're going to 890 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,280 S1: have J. Warner's up here for another couple hours show 891 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:24,479 S1: to 800 555 7898 800 555 7898.