S1: Hello friends. It's time for the second hour of Open
S1: Line with Doctor Michael Radonich Moody Radio's Bible Study Across America.
S1: We're talking about your questions about the Bible, God and
S1: the spiritual life. I'm Michael Ray Dolnick, professor of Jewish
S1: studies at Moody Bible Institute, and we are broadcasting from
S1: Moody's downtown Chicago campus. If you have a Bible question today,
S1: don't phone in. It's a special all mailbag, all the
S1: time program. But you can write your question to Open line@moody.edu,
S1: or you can post it on Twitter. Our handle is
S1: at openline Radio1. Or you can like us on Facebook.
S1: And while you're there, you can post your question on
S1: the Open Line Radio Facebook page. It's probably the easiest.
S1: Just go to our website, openline radio.org, and that website
S1: has links to everything you're looking for, even links to email,
S1: Facebook and Twitter. Joining me today in studio is Eva Radulovic.
S1: She is my colleague on the faculty of Moody Bible Institute.
S1: She is co-contributor to the Moody Bible Commentary. And she's
S1: been my wife for lo these many years. And we,
S1: I should say, I've been her husband all these years.
S1: Let's get it right, you know. And also managing questions
S1: is mailbag expert producer of Open Line. Tricia McMillan. Welcome.
S1: Glad we're all together.
S2: Me too.
S1: Yeah.
S3: So being here around the radio kitchen table in person is, like,
S3: even more fun than listening at home.
S1: That's right.
S3: So maybe, like, a lot of people just come down
S3: and be with us.
S1: Yeah.
S2: Well, they are great. They are.
S1: They're listening in. That's right. So, well, let's keep our
S1: Bibles open and let's get a second cup of coffee,
S1: because we're going to go right back to your questions.
S1: And Tricia has got a lot of them we've got
S1: to cover.
S2: Yeah. And we're going to dive in this one in
S2: this next question. Um, several people have written in with this.
S2: So I'm going to kind of tie their questions together.
S2: Wendy in Chattanooga, Tennessee listens to WNBA. Sean and Jennifer,
S2: um have all written in with a question about Hebrews
S2: six four through six.
S1: It's a it's a troubling passage.
S2: It is, it is. Does this passage, Hebrews six four
S2: through six imply that you can lose your salvation? Um,
S2: if not this passage, do you think you can ever,
S2: under any circumstance, lose your salvation? Um, Sean says he
S2: doesn't think you can lose your salvation. So the verse is,
S2: if that's if he's right, are the verses teaching? Are
S2: they teaching for the Christian Jews to not fall back
S2: into Judaism? Um, and then Jennifer wanted to know if God, um,
S2: along with all of the rest, would God take away
S2: a free gift like that from a person? I mean,
S2: we talk about it being this free gift that we
S2: just have to take it if you have. Can he
S2: take that back?
S1: Now, I just want you to know, I'm going to
S1: take a lot of time with this question, because we
S1: get a lot of people with it. And I think
S1: the way to start with this is with what Scripture
S1: teaches about our security.
S3: Yeah. And this is such a great passage. Everybody should
S3: have this underlined in their Bible to be knowing that
S3: their relationship with the Lord Jesus is secure not because
S3: of what they do, but because of what he has done.
S3: He this is this is in John chapter, chapter six.
S3: And it starts like, let's just start at verse 37.
S3: It says, all that the father gives me will come
S3: to me, and the one who comes to me, I
S3: will certainly not cast out. For I have come down
S3: from heaven not to do my own will, but the
S3: will of him who sent me. This is the will
S3: of him who sent me, that of all that he
S3: has given me, I will lose nothing but raise him
S3: up on the last day. For this is the will
S3: of my father, that everyone who beholds the son and
S3: believes in him will have eternal life, and I myself
S3: will raise him up on the last day. Seems pretty
S3: clear that the person doing the work in this situation
S3: is the Lord Jesus.
S1: Yeah, and he always does. The will of the father.
S3: Always does the will. So if anybody could be lost,
S3: that would mean that Jesus had failed in his mission.
S3: And if he had failed in his mission, then he
S3: could not be the Messiah.
S1: So yeah, he stakes his whole messianic identity.
S3: Right.
S1: On the fact that he always does the will of
S1: the father. This is my father's will, that of all
S1: that he has given me. I like how my version
S1: reads in in the hcsb I lose none of them.
S3: Right.
S1: And I think that is crucial. So I think that
S1: we can't get stronger than the words of Jesus that
S1: he says we are secure. And that's why I say
S1: Hebrews six is troubling, because on the surface it appears
S1: that it's saying the opposite. And I'm going to read
S1: the verses that people are asking about. It says, for
S1: it's impossible to renew to repentance. Those who were once enlightened,
S1: who tasted the heavenly gift, became companions with the Holy Spirit,
S1: tasted the good words and powers of the world or
S1: the coming age, and who have fallen away because to
S1: their own harm they are crucifying the Son of God
S1: and holding him up to contempt. So it's impossible to
S1: renew them to repentance. And it sounds like that's saying
S1: that they've come and they've known the Lord and they've
S1: lost their salvation. Now, here's how I I'm just going
S1: to explain the passage. I think it will answer all
S1: those questions that we got. First of all, I think
S1: it's really crucial that we understand he's writing to Jewish believers.
S1: That's what the book of Hebrews is about. Uh, to
S1: Messianic Jews, we would call them today, and they're facing
S1: persecution and they're thinking about going backwards. Some of them
S1: are thinking about going backwards to more traditional Judaism, leaving
S1: Jesus out of the equation. And then when the persecution
S1: passes by, they'll move back to it. But they're thinking
S1: about going backwards. And so I think, in a sense,
S1: the book of Hebrews is written to a mixed multitude
S1: of some who are genuine believers and some who are,
S1: because they're considering this, are betraying the fact that they
S1: may not be believers. And you see this in Hebrews
S1: three verse six. It says, Messiah was faithful as a
S1: son over his household, and we are presently. That's why
S1: I'm adding the word, the present tense. There we are,
S1: that household. If we hold on to the courage and
S1: confidence of our hope. And it's also saying, what if
S1: we bail? What if we don't hold on to the
S1: courage and confidence of our hope? Then we are not
S1: his household today. And so it proves that we are.
S1: If we bail, it proves that we don't know the Lord.
S1: Hebrews 314 says, we have become companions of the Messiah
S1: if we hold firmly until the end. The reality that
S1: we had at the start. And so what it's saying
S1: there is we hold firm, and then we demonstrate that
S1: we're companions of the Messiah. But what if we don't
S1: hold firmly? Well, then we're not his companions. And so
S1: it is saying, look, if you don't endure, you're demonstrating
S1: that you're not elect. The great outward sign of being
S1: part of the elect family of God is enduring in
S1: the faith those who Bale demonstrate that they're not. Now,
S1: what's the warning in Hebrews six about? I know I'm
S1: kind of taken over here on.
S3: This, thinking that people are afraid they're not going to endure.
S3: That's where they get afraid. Yeah. What if I don't
S3: keep up?
S1: Yeah. Well, Hebrews six nine talks about that and says,
S1: even though we're speaking this way, dear friends, in your case,
S1: we're confident of better things. That's right. And so there's
S1: a great deal of confidence that he has that if
S1: we know Jesus, we will endure. And if you know Jesus,
S1: you don't have to worry about not enduring. Now in
S1: Hebrews six, it's really important to read it in context.
S1: And he tells them to leave the elementary message about
S1: the Messiah and let us go on to maturity. And
S1: some people think in Hebrews 611 it says that it's saying,
S1: leave the foundational truths you were taught as a new believer,
S1: and go on and become a mature follower of Messiah,
S1: a follower of a mature follower of Jesus. But I
S1: don't think it's saying he says, leave the elementary message
S1: of the Messiah. I think what he's saying there is
S1: leave the elementary message that you learned as a Jewish
S1: person who didn't believe in Jesus yet, and move on
S1: to the maturity of full faith in Jesus as the Messiah.
S1: And here's why I say this is he says. That
S1: we have to move on from the foundation of repentance
S1: that's taught in traditional Judaism and in the messianic faith,
S1: the faith in Jesus, the Christian faith. Faith in God,
S1: teaching about ritual washings, laying on of hands, resurrection of
S1: the dead, and eternal judgment that all those things are
S1: found in, uh, in both Judaism and in the foundational
S1: teachings of the Christian faith. But there's one of those
S1: things that is mentioned that is not, uh, referring to that.
S1: And that is the word baptismos ritual washings in my version.
S1: Some versions say baptisms. That is a word that is
S1: used exclusively in the New Testament to refer to Old
S1: Testament ritual washings. It never refers to Christian baptism. And
S1: so what he is saying, that's how I know that
S1: all these things refer to Old Testament ideas. He says
S1: we need to move on from those Old Testament ideas
S1: to their fulfillment in Jesus, and then we'll have a
S1: mature faith. And so what is he saying? He's saying
S1: to people who are thinking about bailing, I know you
S1: don't know the Lord, but you need to move on
S1: to a fully or full, complete faith in Jesus. And
S1: then he gives a warning. And the warning is, once
S1: we come as close as you have come, if you bail,
S1: it's impossible to renew you to repentance. You have come
S1: closer and closer and closer. So much that people even
S1: think you're a believer, but you're not. He says you've
S1: been enlightened. You know that Jesus is the Messiah. You've
S1: tasted the heavenly gift, uh, and you became companions with
S1: the Holy Spirit. You got to partake in the events
S1: of the Holy Spirit right here in this congregation that
S1: you're part of. You've tasted the good word of God.
S1: You've heard it preached, you've seen the powers of the
S1: coming age. You've seen all these things. You know, this
S1: is true, and yet you haven't made a personal decision.
S1: And if you bail now, if you don't put your
S1: trust in Jesus now, but you bail, it will be impossible.
S1: And I would think this is, humanly speaking, it will
S1: be impossible to renew you to repentance. And that's humanly speaking. Now,
S1: of course, I think God can renew anyone's repentance at
S1: any time, but generally speaking, he's saying is if you
S1: get this close and then you abandon, then your hearts
S1: are hardened and you won't come back. And so I
S1: think it's a I call it the close but no
S1: cigar Warning that you've come this close. You've been raised
S1: with this Old Testament teaching. But you. But now you're
S1: thinking of going back to Non-messianic Judaism. And if you
S1: do that, it's going to be really bad for you. Now,
S1: this is a passage that Eve and I have talked
S1: about many times.
S3: It's like, I understand it. That's good, that's good. And
S3: then six months later, could we go over that Hebrews
S3: six thing again? Because I don't understand it as much
S3: as I did when we were talking.
S1: That was Eva a long time ago. Now she she.
S3: I've got it now. Yeah. I can understand how it
S3: keeps coming up in people's thoughts.
S1: But it's so encouraging to know. I love what he
S1: says in verse nine. We mentioned it already, uh, where
S1: he says, even though we are speaking this way, dear friends,
S1: in your case, we're confident of better things connected with salvation.
S1: We are confident that you know the Lord and that
S1: you really are his child and you're not going to bail,
S1: because what's the evidence of of election? It's endurance staying faithful.
S1: And he says, you know, you're going to stay faithful.
S1: And then you'll demonstrate that you really did know the Lord.
S1: That's his great confidence for them. So people shouldn't look
S1: at this as worrisome. But I'll tell you what we
S1: should do. We should examine ourselves, not worry about the future.
S1: Examine ourselves. Are we in the faith now? Have we
S1: really trusted in Jesus? Are we not trusting in our
S1: own good deeds? Do we believe he died for our
S1: sins and rose again? If that's the case, stick with it.
S1: That's our faithfulness. But if you think, yeah, I've been
S1: kind of around this stuff. I was raised in the church.
S1: I've seen this stuff, but I haven't really put my
S1: trust in Jesus. Well, that's that's the thing to do.
S1: We need to put our trust in Jesus. Well, we
S1: are going to be right back with more of your
S1: questions in just a moment. You're listening to Michael Radonich,
S1: Trish McMillan and Eva Radulovic as we talk about your
S1: questions from the Word of God. Ministry isn't a solo effort.
S1: You know my voice. But if you could see inside
S1: our studio, you'd see a team behind the scenes putting
S1: open line on the air. Look a little further, and
S1: you'd see into the homes of listeners like you who
S1: give monthly to make this ministry possible. And when you
S1: join our team of Kitchen Table Partners, I'll send you
S1: a Bible study moment email every other week with tips
S1: and encouragement. Become a kitchen table partner today by calling
S1: (888) 644-7122 or go to Open Line radio.org. Welcome back to
S1: Open Line. My name is Michael Radonich and I am
S1: so glad that you're listening in today. Joining me is
S1: Eva Radonich. She's a professor at Moody Bible Institute, and
S1: she also is a contributor to the Moody Bible Commentary.
S1: And amazingly, she shares my last name. And I guess
S1: it's because we're married. And then also with me is
S1: Tricia McMillan, the producer of Open Line. She's the one who, uh,
S1: generally puts the program together every weekend. She's the one
S1: that sets up your calls and makes sure that everything
S1: is going smoothly. And she is here. She's put the
S1: mailbag together, and so she's the one asking the questions today.
S1: And Eva is the one who usually answers them via text.
S1: But today, she's right here to do that. Well, Trish, uh,
S1: we got more here, right?
S2: We do. We're going to keep we're going to kind
S2: of stay with that salvation. Can you loser salvation topic. Uh,
S2: Wendy had a question. She's in Indianapolis, Indiana, listens to
S2: where she and her husband were discussing the elect, and
S2: she was wondering first if it's possible for one of
S2: the chosen to not respond to the call. And second,
S2: if one of the chosen or elect does not respond,
S2: and calling the name of Jesus calling the name of
S2: the Lord Jesus, will that person still be admitted to
S2: heaven because they're elect?
S3: Okay, I think we can look back again at that
S3: passage out of John chapter six that we looked at
S3: in the answer to the previous caller's question, writer's question.
S1: Right.
S3: A writer's question, right? Um, but, uh, he says all
S3: that the father gives me will come to me. They
S3: will come. So if a person is elect, they are
S3: going to come to Jesus. And the one who comes
S3: to me, I will certainly not cast out. So if
S3: a person comes, it's not they they're not going to
S3: be cast out. So there's a couple of principles that
S3: we see here. First of all, that if you are
S3: elect an answer to Wendy's question, you will respond to
S3: the call of Jesus. And that that will be a
S3: a permanent response, because it says, for I have not
S3: come down from heaven not to do my own will,
S3: but the will of him who sent me. And it's
S3: God's will that. That of all that he has given me,
S3: I will lose nothing, but will raise him up on
S3: the last day.
S1: Yeah. So what was the second part of that question
S1: that she had?
S2: If someone is elect or chosen and doesn't respond, will
S2: that person still be admitted to heaven?
S1: That's just not a possibility.
S2: Because if you are elect and chosen, you will respond.
S3: Will respond. Right?
S1: And the thing is, when people respond, do you think
S1: they are responding because they know that they're elect? No, no,
S1: they don't know they're elect. I love that quote. Uh,
S1: I think it was Spurgeon, but it was Warren Wiersbe
S1: that I heard quoted.
S3: But the door.
S1: Of the door where he said, as you enter the
S1: getting saved, coming to know the Lord is sort of
S1: like seeing a door with a sign above it that says,
S1: whosoever will may come. And then you walk through the door,
S1: and the other side says.
S3: Chosen before the foundation of the world. Yeah.
S1: And I just think that that's so true. And that
S1: same day I remember, uh, it was my first week
S1: at Moody Bible Institute as a student. So we're talking
S1: years ago. I remember President Lincoln had just been inaugurated, and, uh,
S1: it was a long time ago. And Warren Wiersbe was
S1: the pastor there, and he talked about Ephesians one. That
S1: was he was teaching the college age Sunday school class,
S1: and he talked about, uh, uh, about election that day.
S1: And he said, uh, try to explain election. You'll lose
S1: your mind. Try to explain it away. You'll lose your soul.
S1: And I just I so appreciated what he had to
S1: say about it, that there is something mysterious there.
S3: Right? We want to put God in a box and
S3: understand every single little bit. But really, God's ways are
S3: higher than our ways. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts.
S3: We can live with that tension.
S1: Yeah, we can live with it. That's right. Uh, it's.
S1: And I'll get it right this time. It's one of
S1: the things that I have discovered. It's about sovereignty, free will,
S1: About election and responding with faith. It's like I read
S1: this book about science. It was called It Doesn't Matter.
S1: But the point of it is it says that even
S1: in science, there are things that are taken by faith
S1: that we just can't comprehend. That light is said to
S1: be made of waves, and it's also made of particles.
S1: And it can't be both. And yet it is. And
S1: people say, well, how can God have sovereign election? And
S1: we have to respond with faith? Well, because then it's
S1: not not faith anymore. If God. Well, they're both true.
S1: We have to respond. And yet God chooses and they're
S1: both true. And and it's just how how you live. So.
S2: All right. Thank you. I hope for all of you
S2: who've had that question. I hope this clears it up
S2: for you a little bit.
S1: Just live with.
S2: It. Right? Live with it. Right. Um, but there's so
S2: much there to unpack. Yeah. Um, crystal has a question
S2: out of Luke 12, Verses 41 to 48.
S1: See those pages turning? I love.
S2: That. Um, this is a parable. The Lord Jesus is telling.
S2: She wants to know if this is punishment for unbelievers
S2: or for believers. She said, it's the, um, the UN. Uh,
S2: I'm trying to find it here.
S1: I found it. The who, then, is the faithful and
S1: sensible manager. His master will put in charge of his
S1: household servants to give them their allotted food at the
S1: proper time. That slave whose master finds him working when
S1: he comes will be rewarded. I tell you the truth.
S1: He will put him in charge of all his possessions.
S1: But if that slave says in his heart, my master
S1: is delaying his coming, and he starts to beat the
S1: male and female slaves, and to eat and drink and
S1: get drunk, this slave's master will come on a day
S1: he does not expect him, and at hour he does
S1: not know. He will cut him to pieces and assign
S1: him a place with unbelievers. And the slave who knew
S1: his master's will and didn't prepare himself to do it,
S1: will be severely beaten. But the one who did not
S1: know and did things deserving of lows will be beaten lightly.
S1: Much will be required of everyone who has been given much,
S1: and even more will be expected of those who have
S1: been entrusted to more with more.
S2: So Crystal says to her, it sounds like the believer
S2: has stopped looking for his master and in the end
S2: is punished as an unbeliever. But I thought a person
S2: couldn't lose their salvation. So where does this parable fit
S2: into what we were just talking about? Or or does it?
S4: Uh, I think.
S3: It's important to always understand the, the the point of
S3: the parable. I don't think this is Jesus is really
S3: talking about rewards and punishment as far as being having
S3: a right relationship with God as we think about being
S3: a believer or not a believer. I think the the
S3: issue of this parable is more about being faithful with
S3: what you have been given. Mhm.
S4: Yeah, I.
S1: Think that's true. And and here's what, what I think
S1: about This is that, first of all, we have to
S1: be governed by what the plain teaching of Scripture says.
S1: When I first came to Moody Bible Institute, I remember
S1: I had a spiritual life course and Mr. Winslett was
S1: the professor. And I asked him, he started off with,
S1: your spiritual life starts with your security knowing that we
S1: are secure in him. And I raised Hebrews six and
S1: I got to tell you, he gave probably a better
S1: explanation than I tried last segment, but nevertheless I couldn't
S1: hear it. I couldn't understand it. And I kept pushing
S1: him and pushing him and pushing him. And finally I
S1: was just an annoying student. Annoying student. Anyway. So finally
S1: he said to me and he always called me my brother.
S1: He said, I'm going to tell you what you need
S1: to know. He says, always interpret the unclear in light
S1: of the clear. And then he just listed off all
S1: these verses from John six that we mentioned, and John
S1: ten that nothing will ever pluck us out of the
S1: father and the son's hands. And that nothing will separate
S1: us from the love of God.
S3: Romans eight. Romans eight. Yeah.
S1: And I mean, he started boom, boom, boom. Passage after
S1: passage after passage. He says, there's nothing clearer in Scripture
S1: that we are secure. So you're going to find an
S1: obscure passage, a parable, let's say Hebrews six, and you're
S1: going to throw out everything that's clear because of something
S1: that's unclear to you. He says, just presume that the
S1: clear teachings of Scripture are true, and then interpret the
S1: unclear in light of that. And so I think that
S1: that's what we ought to do. I think when it's
S1: talking about people, if they are indeed being, uh, disciplined
S1: here or punished, I would say not disciplined. Uh, then
S1: this parable is teaching that there may be people who
S1: are professing faith, thinking they genuinely believe in the master
S1: or have him as a master, but then they see
S1: he's not coming, so they're not going to live for
S1: him because they really don't trust him. And that's why
S1: they will. You know, some who are punished will be
S1: punished worse for their failings. Uh, those who know more
S1: will be punished more. And those who know less will
S1: be punished less. But everyone will will face the judge.
S1: And that's what the outcome will be. But I don't
S1: think it's loss of salvation. It's demonstrating that they never
S1: really had it.
S2: So all right. Thanks, Crystal, for that question. Our next
S2: question is from Barb in Spokane, Washington. Listens to w sorry,
S2: listens to KMP. Um, she said, thinking in terms of
S2: Romans 116 that everyone who believes receives salvation and Ephesians
S2: two eight and nine for by grace sorry, for you
S2: are saved by grace through faith. And this not of yourselves,
S2: it is the gift of God. Um, or is having
S2: faith and believing synonymous, or is it a two step process?
S2: Do we bring belief to the table. And then God
S2: supplies the faith. I know we're dead in our sins,
S2: but if we show interest, then God provides the faith
S2: that we need. Or is God providing the belief and
S2: the faith as a gift?
S1: She's she's really confused about what is faith and what
S1: is belief.
S3: Yeah, she seems to think they're two totally different things, right?
S1: Yeah, yeah. But the Greek word in the New Testament
S1: for faith pisteuo also is translated believe.
S4: Right.
S1: They it's the same word. Uh, to have faith and
S1: to believe mean exactly the same thing. And so when
S1: you see believe or faith, it's the same word.
S3: It's not a two step process.
S4: It's not a two step process.
S2: Same thing.
S1: Yeah, it's the same exact thing. And in Ephesians two
S1: eight and nine where it says that by grace are
S1: you saved through faith? Not of works, lest any man
S1: should boast. It is the gift of God. It is
S1: not faith that's the gift. It's salvation. That's the gift. Uh,
S1: that's what it's referring to. Uh, God doesn't give us
S1: faith as a gift. Now, what he does do. and
S1: I'm going to just what God does is I think
S1: a really good illustration of it is in acts 16,
S1: I'm going to have you read the verse. I'm going
S1: to tell her it's acts 16, and the reason I'm
S1: going to have her read the verse, because I'm trying.
S1: I think her version actually translates it better. She reads
S1: the New American Standard, which she thinks that Moses and.
S4: Paul actually has an.
S3: Autographed copy.
S4: Yeah.
S1: Yeah.
S4: That's right.
S1: It says in acts 16 and it's verse, uh uh, 1414.
S4: Yeah.
S1: The second half.
S4: I want to read that.
S3: It says a woman named Lydia from the from the
S3: city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabric, a worshiper
S3: of God was listening. And the Lord opened her heart
S3: to respond to the things spoken by Paul.
S1: Why do we believe?
S4: Because God opens our hearts.
S1: That's why we'll be back with more of your questions
S1: in just a moment. Don't go away. This is Michael
S1: Ray Dolnick on open line. Stay with us. Have you
S1: ever wondered how we got the Bible? The story of
S1: the Bible by Carl Laney takes you on a fascinating
S1: journey through scriptures from divine inspiration to modern translations. Doctor
S1: Laney reveals how God gave us his word. This book
S1: will deepen your confidence in the Bible's reliability while answering
S1: questions you've always had. If you'd like a copy, it's yours.
S1: When you give a gift of any size, just go
S1: to our website, openline radio.org or call (888) 644-7122. We're so
S1: glad that Febc partners with Openline with Doctor Michael Radonich
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S1: Org on their weekly podcast. Until all have heard with
S1: Ed Cannon, you'll hear stories of lives changed by Messiah
S1: all across the globe. Again, you can hear the podcast
S1: when you visit febc. Org That's febc.org. Welcome back to
S1: Open Line with me. Doctor Michael Ray Melnick. And joining
S1: me today is my best friend, my colleague at Moody,
S1: my fellow contributor to the Moody Bible Institute, and my
S1: wife Eva Radonich. Also here is Tricia McMillan, producer of
S1: Open Line. She's compiled all the questions you've sent, and
S1: she is in studio right now, and she's the one
S1: who is controlling everything. She decides what questions will be answered.
S1: So those of you out there who are listening and
S1: you say, Michael, you didn't answer the question I wrote in. Yeah.
S1: I'm sorry. It's Trisha's fault.
S3: That's all I have to say.
S2: Thanks.
S1: Okay, so what's our next question?
S2: All right. Our next question is from Betty. She says
S2: in revelation 21 three. Does it say we will see
S2: God when we get to heaven? So the verse says,
S2: then I heard a loud voice from the throne, look,
S2: God's dwelling is with humanity and he will live with them.
S2: They will be his people, and God himself will be
S2: with them and be their God. So will we. Will
S2: we see God?
S1: Well, this is one of the things that I say
S1: all the time that no man has ever seen God.
S1: But who has revealed him? The son.
S3: Son?
S1: Yeah. And the only time we'll ever see God is
S1: the Lord Jesus. Now it says that the Lord will
S1: dwell with humanity. But in what sense will he dwell
S1: with humanity in eternity? In the person of the Lord
S1: Jesus in the second person? So even though it doesn't
S1: state that there's no other way it can be that
S1: he will dwell with humanity in the sense that he
S1: is the Lord. The Lord Jesus is fully God. He
S1: is the one that will rule over us for eternity.
S1: We can't see God the Father because he is a spirit.
S1: When he has been revealed in places like Daniel seven.
S1: It's a vision. It is not an actual seeing of
S1: God we cannot see. Jesus said the Lord Jesus said,
S1: God is a spirit must be worshiped in spirit and
S1: in truth. We cannot see God the Father because he
S1: is a spirit and you can't see His Spirit. But
S1: God will be with us forever and lead us forever
S1: because he is the Lord Jesus.
S3: And it just says, God and the Lord Jesus is God. Yeah, so.
S1: So I just don't. I'm convinced that we will not
S1: see God the Father, but we will see God the
S1: Son for all eternity. And actually, you know what Jesus said,
S1: if that's not enough for you, I and the father
S1: are one. I don't see why that would be a
S1: problem for anyone. Uh, we'll see him. Not just. I
S1: find it interesting that in revelation one, when the Lord
S1: Jesus is depicted, uh, he is not depicted as he
S1: is shown in the Gospels. In the Gospels, I it's
S1: it's like what we see is Jesus as every man.
S1: He looks like ordinary. He looks like it's not that
S1: he looks.
S3: They had they wouldn't recognize him in the garden if
S3: Judas hadn't pointed him out.
S1: He looked like a normal person, an ordinary person. Uh,
S1: and Isaiah 53, it talks about how he didn't have
S1: royal bearing. He didn't have any special super charisma. He
S1: he's just ordinary. When we think of Superman and Clark Kent.
S1: Clark Kent looks ordinary. And then, of course, Superman is
S1: the all powerful superhero. Well, in revelation one, when the
S1: Lord Jesus is depicted, he's not depicted as ordinary. It says, uh,
S1: that I saw. This is in, uh, verse 1813. And
S1: among the lampstands was one like the Son of Man,
S1: dressed in a long robe with a gold sash wrapped
S1: around his chest. His head and hair were white like wool,
S1: white as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery flame.
S1: His feet were like fine bronze as it is fired
S1: in a furnace, and his voice like the sound of
S1: cascading waters like Niagara Falls. And so the point of
S1: this is when Jesus is depicted in his glory. He
S1: looks somewhat like the father's depiction in Daniel seven, right?
S1: And I believe that the reason for this is because
S1: in his glory in John 17, what the Lord Jesus
S1: says is that now glorified I have glorified you. He says, uh,
S1: for example, in verse four, I have glorified you on
S1: the earth by completing the work you gave me to do. Now, father,
S1: glorify me in your presence with that glory I had
S1: with you before the world existed. And so in his glorified,
S1: exalted state, the Lord Jesus doesn't look like every man anymore.
S1: Now he's got the image of the glorified, of the
S1: glorified father. That's what he says right there. And the
S1: father answers that prayer. And so we're not going to
S1: be disappointed, Like, oh, Jesus, looks so ordinary. I don't
S1: want to be with him and see him for eternity. No,
S1: we're going to be in the presence of very God,
S1: and he is glorious, and he is the one that
S1: reveals God to us.
S3: And taking you back to that revelation 21 passage, it
S3: opens up with, he heard. I heard a loud voice
S3: from the throne saying, behold, the tabernacle of God is
S3: among men. So she says, isn't this God the Father
S3: that we're seeing here on this throne? Verse five says,
S3: And he who sits on the throne said, behold, I
S3: am making all things new. And he said, these words
S3: are faithful and true. It is done. I am the
S3: Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, which
S3: is how Jesus is identified in chapter one, verse eight. Yeah.
S3: So clearly this is Jesus that we're seeing here in
S3: chapter 21, not God the Father.
S2: Thank you for that question, Betty, and thank you for
S2: that answer. Um, our next question is from, uh, Chris
S2: on Facebook wrote and wanted to know we're going back
S2: to parables. and Matthew 13. Uh, the parable of the weeds. Uh,
S2: Matthew 1324 through 29. Is this before or after the rapture,
S2: or is it about the rapture?
S1: The parable of the wheat and the chaff, is that it?
S1: Or the parable of the weeds?
S2: Parable of the weeds.
S1: I'll look it.
S2: Up. So the kingdom of heaven may be compared to
S2: a man who sowed good seed in his field. But
S2: while people were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds
S2: among the wheat and left. When the plants sprouted and
S2: produced grain, then the weeds also appeared. The landowner slaves
S2: came to him and said, master, didn't you sow good
S2: seed in your field? Then where did the weeds come from?
S2: An enemy did this, he told them, so do you
S2: want us to go and gather them up? The slaves
S2: asked him. No, he said, when you gather up the weeds,
S2: you might also uproot the wheat with them. Let both
S2: grow together until the harvest. At harvest time, I'll tell the.
S2: I'll tell the reapers. Gather the weeds first and tie
S2: them in bundles to burn them. But store the wheat
S2: in my barn. Yeah.
S3: Well, before Michael answers this question, we'll do a little
S3: agricultural talk here that the word that's used for weeds
S3: is actually tares. And when those plants come up, those
S3: little plants, they look exactly like wheat coming up. So
S3: if you looked at the field, you wouldn't be able
S3: to tell that there had been anything wrong with the
S3: plants that were growing up there. It was only when
S3: they became mature and the wheat had the head on
S3: it that you would see, okay, that's the grain. And
S3: these other things are weeds.
S1: Uh, so, uh, some people think that among believers you
S1: can't tell those who are real believers and those who
S1: are not, and that they're growing up together. I really
S1: don't think that this is what it's about. It's talking
S1: about Earth and the kingdom of heaven, which is growing
S1: here on the earth. You know, Jesus is growing the kingdom,
S1: his rule on earth. And right here you've got people
S1: who are believers who look, I mean, you and I
S1: and Eva, we all look rather ordinary, you know, like
S1: regular people. And then if we walk out onto LaSalle Boulevard,
S1: there will be people who don't know the Lord and
S1: they look same as us. We're growing up together in
S1: this world. And so when the judgment time was going
S1: to come, uh, they said, do you want us to
S1: go and gather them up? He said, no. When you
S1: gather up the weeds, you might also uproot the wheat
S1: with them. So when judgment is going to fall on
S1: the earth, if you do it now, it's going to
S1: fall upon believers and non-believers alike. And so what's he say?
S1: Let both grow together. And what have we had since
S1: the first century? Since the birth of the church, we've
S1: had believers and non-believers, people who are followers of Jesus
S1: and people who are not followers of Jesus. And we
S1: look alike sort of to the outside, naked eye, but
S1: we're growing up together in this world. And then he
S1: says at harvest time, that's the judgment. Gather the weeds
S1: first and tie them in bundles to burn them. But
S1: store the wheat in my barn. So I think what
S1: it's talking about in the judgment, they're going to separate.
S1: And I actually think that what's going to happen for
S1: the church before judgment hits is we will be removed.
S1: We'll be gathered to the barn, so to speak, and then, uh,
S1: but I think it's a little bit hard, in my opinion,
S1: to force a pre-tribulation post-tribulational rapture on this. He is
S1: the Lord. Jesus is just saying that a believers and
S1: non-believers are going to be growing in this world together
S1: and be. When Judgment Day comes, God will separate them
S1: and the believers won't be judged, but this earth will
S1: be judged. That's what I think it's saying. Thank you. Uh,
S1: we'll be right back with more of your Bible questions
S1: that Trish is looking for right now. And remember, you
S1: can always email your questions to us at Open line@moody.edu.
S1: You can tweet them to at Openline radio one. You
S1: can like us on Facebook and post it there. You're
S1: listening to Open Line with Michael Ray Dolnick. Don't go away.
S1: Trish and I will be right back. People are always
S1: asking me questions about the Jewish people. Some of you
S1: want to know how to reach your Jewish friends with
S1: the gospel. Or you want to understand how the Messiah
S1: fulfilled prophecy. Others want to learn about the Jewish feasts
S1: and festivals. Chosen People Ministries is an organization that reaches
S1: Jewish people with the good news all around the world
S1: each month. Chosen People Ministries offers a free resource to
S1: open line listeners that can help you in your personal
S1: walk with Messiah Jesus, or it can help you reach
S1: out to your Jewish friends and neighbors. For your free
S1: copy of this month's resource. Go to the Open Line
S1: website that's Open Line radio.org, and scroll down and find
S1: the link that says A Free gift from Chosen People Ministries.
S1: Click on that link and you'll be taken to a
S1: page where you can sign up for your own free
S1: copy of this month's resource. Welcome back to this all mailbag,
S1: all the time edition of Open Line. I'm Michael Ray Dolnick.
S1: Tricia McMillan is with me, and she has skillfully managed
S1: the mailbag throughout as Eva and I. Eva Zelnick, who's
S1: also here, have been trying to do our best to
S1: answer your questions. Eva is here. She is my forever
S1: sidekick and has been answering those questions along with me
S1: this these last two hours. I'm really grateful. Thank you
S1: for coming in.
S3: It's great to be here I love it.
S1: Okay, Trish, what do we got?
S2: Our next question is from Denise in Chicago. Listens to WNBA.
S2: She wants to know, is Paul the 12th apostle?
S1: Uh, you know, some people want to say that in
S1: acts one, when they chose to add a 12th disciple,
S1: that they made a mistake, that that God wanted them
S1: to wait for, uh, Paul to be the 12th disciple.
S1: I don't think that's a mistake. When you read acts
S1: one where Mattathias is chosen. There isn't a hint of
S1: condemnation or like they did something wrong. It is an
S1: act that is obviously led by the Holy Spirit when
S1: they choose lots. That's the last time because the church
S1: is born in acts two, and after that the Holy
S1: Spirit indwells believers and no longer does they do. They
S1: use lots to determine. But nevertheless, Mattathias is the one
S1: that is chosen, and it is rightly so. And the
S1: Holy Spirit leads the them with the lots, guides them
S1: to Mattathias. And the reason for it, I believe, is
S1: in Matthew 19 and Matthew 19. It says in verse 28,
S1: when it talks about the disciples, it says, I assure you.
S1: Jesus said to them, I assure you, in the Messianic age,
S1: when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne,
S1: you who have followed me will also sit on 12
S1: thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel. So there were
S1: apostles or the 12 apostles were the 12 apostles who
S1: would rule over Israel. They were functioning not as the
S1: foundation of the church in that way, but they were
S1: functioning as the leaders of Israel, the remnant of Israel.
S1: And they are part of the remnant of Israel. And
S1: they are going to be ruling over Israel in the kingdom.
S1: And so they needed to choose a 12th apostle to
S1: be an apostle to Israel. However, Paul comes along and
S1: he's not an apostle to Israel. He's an apostle to
S1: the uncircumcised. And so he he's genuinely apostle, but he's
S1: not one of the 12. He's an additional apostle, as
S1: is Barnabas, who will go to the Gentiles. And so, no,
S1: they did not make a mistake. Mattathias is the right
S1: one and Paul is additional apostle, one untimely born, he says.
S3: Because he apparently was among those unnamed earlier on who
S3: followed along with Jesus all along. And we know that
S3: Paul was not doing that.
S1: Yeah, he was there from the beginning. That's what they
S1: said they needed. And they also said that he testified
S1: of the resurrection. So obviously he was among them when
S1: the when the Lord Jesus appeared as a resurrected Lord.
S1: So good choice I would say.
S2: Mhm. Thanks, Denise, for that question. Jeremy wrote us and
S2: said I recently witnessed to a professing atheist in which
S2: he kind of discredited my view that Christianity was the
S2: only true religion because I had not read other religious texts, um,
S2: such as the Quran or or other books like that.
S2: I've studied the Mormon religion and have found and have found, um,
S2: faults that verify it's a false religion. But I haven't
S2: read the whole Book of Mormon. Um, it just seemed
S2: like my stance that I feel like I don't have
S2: to actually read other religious books to stand on my
S2: faith that the Bible is the true book of the
S2: only true religion. Christianity was not valid to him. How
S2: should I respond to someone who discredits me for not
S2: having read other religious books? When I tried to prove
S2: that Christianity is the only true religion?
S3: It's pretty. This is in today's pluralistic mindset. This is
S3: not an unusual question to have to come into contact with,
S3: but I think that the best answer we can get
S3: is what we learned from the bank. If you go
S3: to work as a teller in the bank, they one
S3: of the things that tellers have to do. Tellers have
S3: to be able to recognize counterfeit money. And the way
S3: that a teller is taught to recognize counterfeit money isn't
S3: by looking at 50 or 60 or 100 examples of
S3: counterfeit money. They're taught to recognize counterfeit money by knowing
S3: what the real money looks like, by knowing how the
S3: true looks that helps us when we come across anything
S3: that doesn't look like that true thing. Then we go, oh,
S3: that's suspicious. That's probably a counterfeit. So I think that
S3: the answer to this, you know, accusation is you haven't
S3: studied every false religion. It's fine. It's okay. I tell
S3: you what I know. I know that I've studied the
S3: true and buy the true. Then we can recognize the
S3: false and then challenge your friend. Why don't we take
S3: some time and read the Bible together and see what
S3: you think of it?
S1: Yeah. Study the truth. That's what I think now. I
S1: have to say, if I were specializing in working with
S1: some sect or some group, I would study it so
S1: I could help them see what I see from Scripture.
S2: Yes.
S1: But if just generally speaking, I don't. In fact. In fact,
S1: one of the things I discovered about Open Line when
S1: I first started doing it, I used to get a
S1: lot of questions about various cults of Christianity and different groups,
S1: and they wanted me to talk about other religions. And,
S1: you know, frankly, I'm not that good at it. Uh,
S1: and I used to say, well, I'll give you my answer,
S1: but really, what I know is the Bible.
S3: Right.
S1: And and I think people would say, oh, I'm sorry,
S1: this guy's not that good. But they I finally taught
S1: them not to ask me those questions so much. They
S1: mostly asked me the questions about the Bible. So one
S1: of the things that even I can do is we
S1: can talk about what the Talmud says and what the
S1: Midrash says and what the Mishnah says, because my special
S1: area of expertise is, is Judaism. And so I'd better
S1: know that. Yes. So it's not wrong to study other literature.
S1: It's just that the most important thing I can do
S1: is study the Bible.
S2: The true, the true. Yes. Okay. Thanks, Jeremy, for that question.
S2: I hope that is helpful for you as you continue
S2: having conversations with your friends. Our next question is from Marcia.
S2: She listens to us in Alberta, Canada, and she says,
S2: I've seen a version of the Bible that includes books
S2: like Tobit and Baruch and a few others. Were these
S2: books in the Jewish scriptures? If not, where did they
S2: come from and who decided to add them?
S3: Good, good observation of these books. Tobit and Baruch and
S3: some others like Maccabees and things. You'll sometimes see them
S3: at the end of the Old Testament, in between the
S3: Old Testament and the New Testament. In some versions of
S3: the Bible, they were never recognized as scripture by the
S3: in the Jewish canon, the Old Testament that we have
S3: running from Genesis to Malachi, and that is the that
S3: is the Old Testament that was always held to be
S3: the Old Testament by the Jewish people. That was the
S3: Old Testament during the time of Jesus. Of course, it
S3: was just called the Torah then, or.
S1: The.
S3: Tanakh or the Tanakh. Exactly. These books actually were, you know,
S3: helpful educational literature that was around early in the in
S3: that time period, but were never considered. They were didactic
S3: teaching literature, but they were never considered part of the
S3: Scripture by the Jewish community and was not considered part
S3: of the scriptures by the early church. They actually came
S3: into that little back of the Bible, back of the
S3: Old Testament part in the Middle Ages.
S1: Yeah. And actually it's later than the Middle Ages. It
S1: the setting of the canon that that included those books.
S1: We can put it right at 1546.
S3: That's why I was thinking about Middle Ages.
S1: Yeah. The Counter-Reformation and what it was is they, in
S1: the response to the Reformation, uh, the setting with the Reformation,
S1: sometimes the Counter-Reformation was trying to say, we want to
S1: justify some of the things that we say we are
S1: teaching there from Scripture some things that Luther and other
S1: reformers objected to. Well, they're not in Scripture, but they
S1: are in these apocryphal books, as they're called. And so
S1: what they said is, oh, we're now going to include
S1: these as sort of a quasi scripture along with the
S1: Hebrew Bible. And so that's how they got in 16th century.
S1: That's kind of a late time to.
S3: Like 15, 17.
S1: 1546 is the Counter-Reformation at the Council of Trent. That's
S1: when they brought those in. So, uh, it's certainly not, uh,
S1: it was never considered scripture by a Judaism by be
S1: the early church. It was only in the 16th century
S1: that it got settled in there and brought in. But
S1: you know what? They're kind of interesting, right? They are
S1: interesting when when I took New Testament survey as a
S1: moody student many years ago, we had to read the
S1: Apocrypha before we read the New Testament.
S3: And some are inspirational stories which are encouraging and some
S3: are historical things that are interesting and some are just
S3: like crazy stories.
S1: Some of them.
S3: Are.
S1: Well, amazingly, that's the program for today.
S3: Wow. Out of time.
S1: Out of time. That's right. Thanks for listening, everyone. Especially
S1: those of you who wrote in with your questions. As always,
S1: thanks to Tricia McMillan for producing and for Chris Papendrecht
S1: for putting this whole thing together with his excellent engineering skill.
S1: Join us next week because we'll be live taking your
S1: questions via phone. Remember, keep in touch with us by
S1: going to our website openline radio.org. It's got links to
S1: the Chosen People Ministries free resource and a link to
S1: my own personal web page. Keep reading the Bible and
S1: we'll talk about it next week. Open line with Doctor
S1: Michael Melnick is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry
S1: of Moody Bible Institute.