S1: What does Gen Z think about Israel? Born between 1997
S1: and 2012, these Americans have their own take on the
S1: Arab-Israeli conflict. To them, facts seem to matter less than feelings,
S1: and their feelings are predominantly anti-Israel. Why do they think
S1: the way they do, and how can we engage them
S1: in respectful dialogue? Welcome to the land and the book,
S1: where we're about to engage in an eye opening discussion
S1: about Gen Z and the Israel conflict. Our host is
S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer, a guy who's traveled to the Middle
S1: East more than 100 times. I'm his sidekick, John Gager. And,
S1: you know, many people wonder, what does Passover mean for
S1: us as believers in Jesus, Charlie? Some might remember the
S1: story from the book of Exodus, but there's so much
S1: more to it. For example, did you know that the
S1: Last Supper was actually a Passover meal? Not only did
S1: Jesus and his disciples celebrate Passover, it also foreshadowed his
S1: death on the cross for our redemption.
S2: Jewish people have been keeping the feast of Passover for
S2: thousands of years. Understanding the history and importance of this
S2: holiday will help you better connect with your Jewish friends
S2: and neighbors. And what better way is there to learn
S2: about Passover than to experience a Passover Seder yourself? If
S2: you've never celebrated Passover? Our friends at Life and Messiah
S2: would love to partner with you in hosting a Seder experience.
S2: Every year, their staff engage churches and small groups in
S2: an interactive Messiah in the Passover Seder, allowing participants to
S2: taste and see the redemption story. If you're interested in
S2: having someone come and lead a Seder in your area,
S2: visit Life in Messiah. Org and click on the Moody
S2: Radio button there to learn more. That's life in messiah.org.
S1: Well, a new year brings a fresh slate. An open
S1: calendar of still unknown possibilities and problems. Charlie, we know
S1: you're not a prophet, but with what we know right now,
S1: could I just ask, what might the New Year have
S1: in store for Israel and the Middle East at large
S1: in terms of war? Could a period of peace finally
S1: break out?
S2: You know, I'm not a prophet, but I like to
S2: go to the Bible because it provides good answers. And
S2: in this case, when Jesus talked about the future for Israel,
S2: he told his disciples they would hear of wars and
S2: rumors of wars. And then he added, but see that
S2: you're not frightened. And I think that's a good general
S2: application for us. It does look like the fighting between Israel,
S2: Hezbollah and Hamas could be winding down. It's possible a
S2: deal will be reached to release the remaining hostages who've
S2: been held by Hamas for over a year. That would
S2: be celebrated in Israel, though it will come at a price.
S2: Hezbollah has been severely degraded, and they're unlikely to try
S2: to resume the fight with Israel any time in the
S2: near future. Both of these are good outcomes, but that
S2: doesn't mean the region is heading into a time of peace.
S2: One of the key sticking points will remain Israel's conflict
S2: with the Palestinians. President elect Trump will push to reinvigorate
S2: the Abraham Accords, hoping to have Saudi Arabia and Israel
S2: sign a peace treaty. Were that to happen, it's likely
S2: that many other Muslim countries would join in. But the
S2: Saudis have said they won't do this until Israel provides
S2: a pathway forward for a Palestinian state. And Israel is
S2: very reluctant to do that. It's even more of a
S2: problem right now, since many believe the Palestinian Authority is
S2: in danger of collapsing, just like the government of Syria
S2: did at the end of the year. Most Palestinians detest
S2: the Palestinian Authority for its corruption. They would prefer an
S2: Islamic group like Hamas over the current system of nepotism
S2: and dishonesty. Islamic fundamentalists around Jenin and Tulkarem are already
S2: pushing to replace the Palestinian Authority. Israel's wars against Hamas
S2: and Hezbollah could be replaced with a renewed fight against
S2: Islamic fundamentalists in the West Bank area, very similar to
S2: the conflict during the first and second intifadas. Iran has
S2: already begun trying to stir up trouble in the area,
S2: as a way of regaining a measure of influence and
S2: relevance following the defeat of the other members of their
S2: so-called Axis of Resistance. Israel will be keeping a close
S2: eye on any upsurge in conflict with the Palestinians, and
S2: so will we.
S1: Well, you mentioned in passing the collapse of Syria and
S1: the setbacks faced by Iran. I'd like to follow up
S1: on that by asking about both countries, what might be
S1: in store for Syria, and what about Iran, too? As
S1: the new year begins, and particularly as a new US
S1: president takes office?
S2: Yeah, well, everyone's cheering the fall of the Assad regime
S2: in Syria. It's still unclear what the government that eventually
S2: replaces him is going to look like. One real possibility
S2: is that Syria could develop into civil war with the
S2: different ethnic and religious groups fighting one another. A second possibility, though,
S2: is that the rebel jihadist groups, including those aligned with
S2: the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda and ISIS, could unite and
S2: turn Syria into an Islamic fundamentalist state ruled by Sharia law.
S2: Now that's a very real concern. The third scenario is
S2: that Turkey will move in to replace Iran as the
S2: dominant influence in Syria, helping to prop up and maintain
S2: Syria's new leader. That could also spell trouble for the
S2: Kurdish groups in Syria. Iran definitely suffered a reversal in
S2: fortune as the last year drew to a close. They
S2: lost their main threat to Israel, which were the forces
S2: of Hezbollah and Lebanon. And that was followed by the
S2: fall of Syria, which was their main supply route for Hezbollah.
S2: They were also hoping to use Syria's border with Israel
S2: to open up still another front similar to that in Lebanon.
S2: Israel has now made that an impossibility by taking control
S2: of the area along the border, and by destroying Syria's
S2: arsenal of weapons. In addition, Israel decimated Iran's and Syria's
S2: air defenses, leaving Iran open to air attack by Israel
S2: or the US. Iran's public statements are still full of bravado,
S2: but privately they're feeling vulnerable. President elect Trump might just
S2: be the wild card to help keep things from spiraling
S2: out of control. Iran sees him as unpredictable and as
S2: someone who's willing to act until Iran knows what his
S2: goals and his red lines are in the region. They'll
S2: likely tread lightly.
S1: If you're joining us midstream, that's Doctor Charlie Dyer, noted
S1: Middle East expert. I'm John Gager. Taking a look at
S1: the New Year and what it might just bring in
S1: the Middle East, an obvious concern as we begin this
S1: new year remains Iran's nuclear program. Will the New Year
S1: see a resolution to their nuclear threat, or could this
S1: be the next major point of conflict? What is the status, though?
S1: Any impact from the recent Israeli attack? Well, the.
S2: Reports coming out of that region suggest Iran is now
S2: racing to increase its stockpile of highly enriched uranium. The
S2: best guess I've seen is that they've amassed enough uranium
S2: at that high level to eventually assemble up to 10
S2: or 12 nuclear devices. However, they've apparently not yet begun
S2: actually assembling those bombs. Israel and the US both have
S2: said they won't allow Iran to possess nuclear weapons, so
S2: it appears something is going to need to happen this year.
S2: What's not known is how President Trump will handle the situation.
S2: Having taken the US out of the previous nuclear agreement,
S2: it's possible he'll seek to replace that with a stronger
S2: agreement to keep Iran from becoming a nuclear power. It's
S2: also possible he'll move more forcefully, perhaps with Israel, to
S2: set back Iran's program by attacking the facilities where uranium
S2: is being processed. Certainly, a credible threat to eliminate Iran's
S2: nuclear program could be the incentive needed to get Iran
S2: to agree to a more realistic treaty. Some dismiss the threat, though,
S2: of a nuclear Iran, saying even if Iran were to
S2: possess nuclear weapons, no rational government would ever use them
S2: because it would assure their own destruction. But that kind
S2: of an argument ignores the fact that Iran is controlled
S2: by religious clerics, whose version of reality is shaped by
S2: Shiite eschatology, which believes a worldwide conflagration is necessary for
S2: the arrival of the Mahdi, the Islamic messiah. The one
S2: thing that does seem certain, though this could be the
S2: year when the future of Iran's nuclear program will get decided.
S1: Finally, what will the New Year bring in terms of tourism?
S1: Will Israel finally see a return of tourists in large numbers,
S1: or will the situation in the Middle East continue to
S1: keep people away?
S2: You know, John, I had to guard myself to keep
S2: from becoming overly optimistic here, but I am excited. I'm
S2: an optimist in this regard. I do expect tourism to
S2: start out slowly in 2025, but as people see the
S2: wars against Hamas and Hezbollah starting to appear in their
S2: rear view mirror, the pent up demand to visit the
S2: lands of the Bible is going to. I think once again,
S2: pick up and look for those tourists to begin in
S2: the early spring. Now some of these will be smaller groups,
S2: but the size will gradually increase by the fall. I
S2: think Israel will see solid numbers of tourists from the U.S.
S2: traveling there. Those traveling in the spring will experience two realities.
S2: The first is that all the logistics might still be
S2: a bit rusty. Hotels, sites, buses, the restaurants, they're going
S2: to be just coming back online. And some of the
S2: staff might still be in military service. But on the
S2: other side of the scale, the sites will be relatively empty.
S2: There's nothing like having a site all to yourself now.
S2: As the year goes on and tourism increases, the sites
S2: will return to a more normal level of tourism. Personally,
S2: my next trip, John, is in early November. That'll give Israel,
S2: I hope, enough time to get everything running smoothly while
S2: still not becoming too crowded. Israel was shut down for
S2: almost two years because of Covid. They returned to normal,
S2: only to be shut down again following Hamas's attack back
S2: in October of 2023. That's created a lot of pent
S2: up demand for tourism, demand that I think is soon
S2: going to be unleashed. And when it is, I'm looking
S2: for a flood of tourists and I think it's going
S2: to start this year.
S1: Charlie, how likely is it that in this calendar year,
S1: the trial against Netanyahu will, one way or another, wrap up?
S2: You know, they're actually predicting that it won't wrap up
S2: and it could go on into 2026. And then they
S2: say even then, there could be appeals to the Supreme Court.
S2: So it could extend beyond that. It's the trial that
S2: will never end.
S1: Well, as we move further into this new year, one
S1: great resolution you might make is to notify the station
S1: of your own appreciation for the broadcast. You know, they
S1: got lots of folks vying for airtime. Other requests. But
S1: they have kindly made space for this broadcast that you enjoy.
S1: Why not thank them with a card, a letter, an email,
S1: a phone call, whatever you might choose. Appreciate your doing
S1: that on our behalf. And coming up, a great conversation
S1: about what Gen Z thinks about Israel and how we
S1: can engage them in a respectful way. Next on the
S1: land and the book. What does Gen Z think about Israel?
S1: Born between 1997 and 2012, these Americans have their own
S1: take on the Arab-Israeli conflict. To them, facts seem to
S1: matter less than feelings, and their feelings are predominantly anti-Israel.
S1: Why do they think the way they do? How can
S1: we engage them in respectful, constructive dialogue? This is the
S1: land and the book. I'm John Gager, and boy, have
S1: we got an important conversation ahead. Before we dig in, though,
S1: let's ask ourselves how we can be more intentional in
S1: sharing Christ with a Jewish friend or neighbor or coworker. Well,
S1: there you are. And you have started a friendship with
S1: a Jewish friend, and you're wondering what's a first step
S1: in reaching out to them with Messiah Jesus? That's a
S1: question we'll throw at Eva Radonic. What do you say?
S1: What's a first.
S3: Step? I think the first step is to have a
S3: genuine personal relationship. You know, just to begin communication. And
S3: I think this is true with non-Jewish people as well
S3: as Jewish people, that if you want to share the
S3: person that you love the most in the world with
S3: a person that you're just getting to know, it has
S3: to begin with friendship.
S1: I think of former Moody Bible Institute President Michael Easley.
S1: He said, for a friendship to develop, you have to
S1: have two things common interests and time. Yes.
S3: Got to spend time together. Exactly. Common interest in the time.
S3: So what you look for are things that you have
S3: in common. And then look for opportunities to spend time together.
S3: And as a result of those two elements, then conversation
S3: will come up. And, you know, prayerfully that conversation can
S3: be directed toward the Messiah.
S1: It's interesting what you're saying, because I think a lot
S1: of times we want to jump right to that conversation
S1: so quickly, and that might well be ill advised. You're saying, right.
S3: Because if you go right to the conversation before they're
S3: ready to hear, the door closes and it's very hard
S3: to pull that door open once it's shut.
S1: How to take a good first step? That's Eva Radonich,
S1: adjunct faculty member at the Moody Bible Institute here on
S1: the land and the book doctor. Jeff Myers is president
S1: of Summit Ministries. As an educator, Doctor Myers has become
S1: one of America's most respected authorities on youth leadership development.
S1: Through his speaking engagements and media appearances, Doctor Myers has
S1: become a fresh voice, offering humor and insight from a
S1: Christian worldview. He's authored 18 books, including Should Christians Support Israel?
S1: We had him on to talk about that. Jeff and
S1: his wife Stephanie and their family live in Colorado, and
S1: we are really glad to connect with you again here
S1: on the land and the book. Jeff.
S4: John, I'm looking forward to the conversation.
S1: All right. Let's begin with a statistical look at the
S1: problem in a New York Times Siena poll from December. 55%
S1: of respondents ages 18 to 29 oppose the United States
S1: sending more aid to Israel, 55%. Another poll from Quinnipiac
S1: University in November found that 52% of voters under 35
S1: are more sympathetic to the Palestinians. On TikTok, where half
S1: the users are under 30. Hashtag Free Palestine has 31
S1: billion posts, compared to 590 million for hashtag stand with Israel.
S1: More than 50 times as many. So what are we
S1: to make of all this? That's our discussion now with
S1: Doctor Jeff Myers. Jeff is the essential problem that Gen
S1: Z is less influenced by facts, or that they're believing
S1: lies that have been sold as facts.
S4: Those polls you gave are very important. I would add
S4: one to it. A poll that we did asking Gen
S4: Z questions about Israel. And I think what we discovered
S4: in our poll is this Gen Z believes that Israel
S4: has greater wealth and military power, and by definition, they
S4: believe that makes their cause against Hamas unjust. So where
S4: did that idea come from? That Israel is a bully
S4: and they need to be shut down. Some of it's
S4: our own parenting. We taught our kids not to be
S4: bullies and to stand against bullies. We didn't realize, though,
S4: how the education system and social media platforms like TikTok,
S4: where 40% of Gen Z gets their news, weaponize that
S4: and turn it into an oppressor versus oppressed narrative that
S4: fits into a radical agenda.
S1: So what are some other myths that, or maybe half
S1: truths that Gen Z has bought into?
S4: One big question was the question of proportionality. If Israel
S4: has greater military power and their actions against Hamas are
S4: blistering and affecting civilians, is that a proportional response to
S4: the October 7th massacre, in which 1200 Israelis were killed,
S4: raped and mutilated and 254 more taken hostage? And I
S4: think what I realized along the way is that proportionality
S4: is based on the threat, not based on the number
S4: of deaths. A war is not an eye for an
S4: eye situation. A war is trying to eliminate the source
S4: of some evil. So the alternative to a just peace
S4: is a shameful peace. And Israel, clearly in this situation,
S4: after having put up with groups like Hamas and their
S4: attacks on Israeli civilians for decades, decided that's no longer
S4: an option, that they have to go to the source
S4: and eliminate the problem. And what I further discovered, John,
S4: is that Israel has done more in this current war
S4: to limit noncombatant casualties than any other army in history.
S4: That's the conclusion of John Spencer, who is America's leading
S4: expert on protecting noncombatants in the time of war. So
S4: the situation immediately became much more complicated than what's being
S4: presented in social media, just by looking at those facts
S4: on the ground.
S1: This is the Land and the book. Segment two. I'm
S1: John Gager, joined today by Doctor Jeff Myers, president of
S1: Summit Ministries. You've invested hour after hour in conversations with
S1: Gen Z. I'm curious, what is their response when you
S1: present them with historical objective truth?
S4: You know, John, the young adults I've talked to and
S4: it's been more than a thousand this summer in an
S4: hour long Q&A dialogues, I think, when they hear the truth.
S4: A couple of things come into their mind. One is,
S4: why haven't we heard this? Can this really be true?
S4: Because this is different than anything that we have heard
S4: in our TikTok feed or anyplace else. And the second
S4: one is, okay, so Israel is doing what it has
S4: to do. We understand that. But how does that affect Americans?
S4: Why should Americans in general care? And why should Christians
S4: in particular care about this? Israel is one of 193
S4: nations in the world. Why should that get our special attention?
S4: I would say those are the dominant questions.
S1: What does Gen Z really believe about Israel and why?
S1: That's at the heart of today's conversation on the land
S1: and the book with Doctor Jeff Myers, president of Summit Ministries. Hey, Jeff,
S1: if Gen Z is as cause oriented as we've been told,
S1: why is it such a stretch for most of them
S1: to see Israel surrounded by hostile neighbors, determined to wipe
S1: out their existence as a cause to get behind?
S4: John? There's only one answer to that question. Israel is
S4: supported by America, and Gen Z doesn't like America. I
S4: know that sounds crazy, but people in my generation, 65
S4: to 70% say they are happy to live in the
S4: United States. Do you know what the figure is for
S4: Gen Z? 16%. Virtually all Gen Z young people think
S4: that America is largely a force for evil than for
S4: good in the world. So they think that making moral
S4: decisions about foreign policy issues just involves following the money.
S4: Who is America supporting? And then that's probably bad.
S1: Well, how is that countered then? I mean, it's such
S1: a distant thought from where most of us are.
S4: I think if we acknowledge to young adults that the
S4: political rhetoric can be extreme sometimes and that people say
S4: criticisms of the United States from the left and from
S4: the right, but all of those things are for the
S4: purpose of making a better nation, not for the purpose
S4: of tearing America down. And if they were to understand
S4: that and recognize that, you know what being an adult means,
S4: that you have to engage in the dialogue. You have
S4: to sort through the different messages. Just because somebody says
S4: something on television doesn't mean it's true. Just because somebody
S4: says something on TikTok doesn't mean it's true. Just because
S4: it rings true to you doesn't mean that it's true.
S4: You have to search out the truth. Yeah.
S1: Well, how can we answer the widespread Gen Z charge
S1: that Israel's war action in Gaza is genocide. Boy, you
S1: hear a lot of that.
S4: You do hear a lot of that. And genocide means
S4: the intentional elimination of a people group as a group.
S4: And if you look at what's happened in Gaza, you
S4: don't see that Israel is doing that. Typically, in an
S4: urban warfare situation, nine civilians or non-combatants are killed. For
S4: every combatant killed in this current situation, it's about 1
S4: to 1. It's terrible when non-combatants die in a time
S4: of war. It's terrible when their homes get destroyed. It's
S4: terrible when they are displaced. But that in and of
S4: itself does not mean that it's genocidal. In fact, a
S4: new report that's come out said that 80% of those
S4: who are killed in Gaza are the terrorists themselves and
S4: their families who they are hiding behind, so that when
S4: Israel attacks, non-combatants will be killed and will be considered
S4: to be martyrs as kind of a perverse moral justification
S4: of the cause.
S1: Today, on the land and the book A visit with
S1: Doctor Jeff Myers of Summit Ministries. We're talking about what
S1: Gen Z really believes about Israel and why. Obviously, Jeff,
S1: there's a strong biblical case for Christians to support Israel.
S1: But what about secular America? On what grounds do we
S1: build a case for their support?
S4: Israel is a different situation in its international support than
S4: other nations of the world, for a number of reasons.
S4: First of all, Israel is kind of an outpost for
S4: the United States of America in the Middle East. It
S4: gives us a way to be involved in what's happening
S4: in that important region of the world, through a country
S4: that is democratic, the only democratic country in that region.
S4: I think a second reason all Americans should be interested
S4: in this is that Israel has a tremendous positive impact
S4: on our own American economy. We're talking about $50 billion
S4: a year in international trade and tens of thousands. I
S4: can't give an actual calculation. I don't know what it is,
S4: but I know it's at least tens of thousands of
S4: people in the United States of America have their jobs
S4: because of working with Israeli companies. And a lot of
S4: people don't know this, but there are 2500 American companies
S4: that have research and development or other similar kinds of
S4: offices in Israel. So these two nations are intertwined in
S4: a significant way. I would stress, though, this does not
S4: mean that any given American should feel that they have
S4: to put their stamp of approval on every action taken
S4: by the Israeli government. I am a proud American, but
S4: I do not put my stamp of approval on everything
S4: the government in power does. We shouldn't expect that we
S4: have to do that with Israel as well. But to
S4: recognize that our relationship with Israel is unique. This is
S4: not a case of us just flushing billions of dollars
S4: into a hole and having no idea what's ever going
S4: to happen to it. This is actually a legitimate partnership,
S4: and it's important. I think, you know, I know some
S4: people think they say, well, it's America first. And what
S4: they really mean by that is America only. But no
S4: nation in the world has ever been able to survive
S4: and thrive unless it has allies. In fact, if you
S4: look at the major cities that were attacked throughout history.
S4: Victor Davis Hanson discusses this in a recent book. They
S4: all failed because they lost their relationships with allies around
S4: them who could come and help them in their time
S4: of need.
S1: So, Jeff, take this home. You know, we're having a
S1: conversation in our home with some Gen Z folks. How
S1: in the world do we steer that dialogue in a
S1: respectful tone that is also full of truth? And, I
S1: don't know, a biblical perspective? How do we do that?
S4: I think the first thing is, John, to ask young
S4: adults to query where their information comes from. I can
S4: just look at a picture of one of the anti-Israel rallies.
S4: I can look at the signs. At the bottom of
S4: the signs is the website for the organization sponsoring the rally.
S4: In many cases, it's has been the Socialist Worker Party.
S4: If you go to their website, you realize they are
S4: hard left Marxists. They're actually communists. Now, this is not
S4: an accusation. They're admitting this. So asking where does that
S4: information come from? What is the motivation of the person
S4: who's giving that information? The second thing, John, is to
S4: give facts. We found that if you would simply give
S4: a fact to a young adult, that it would change
S4: their mind. For instance, we asked a question in one
S4: of our polls, what about the fact that Israel has
S4: greater wealth and military power? Does that make its military
S4: campaign against Hamas unjust? And almost half of young adults said, yes.
S4: But then we asked this. Hamas leaders have become wealthy
S4: by skimming international aid designated for Palestinians. Do such actions
S4: on the part of Hamas leaders make their cause unjust?
S4: And 57% said yes and 23% said not sure. So
S4: literally half of them changed their minds just with the
S4: presentation of one simple fact. And then the third thing
S4: is just ask questions. If you aren't sure what the
S4: facts are in the situation, then you can just ask
S4: questions like how did you arrive at that conclusion? How
S4: do you know it's true? I would say, John, the
S4: trickier thing is when young adults feel they don't want
S4: to talk about this at all because they think their
S4: parents might be fascists or whatever, but you can still
S4: address that. You can say, it sounds like we have
S4: a significant disagreement, and I know it might take time
S4: to work through, but I believe if we talk about it,
S4: we can come closer to the truth. How do you
S4: see it? Questions like that can open up the conversation
S4: rather than shut it down.
S5: Yeah.
S1: Jeff, we briefly touched on your book, Should Christians support Israel?
S1: You've got a special offer. What is that offer?
S4: I've written a book called Should Christians Support Israel that
S4: I'm making available to anyone who's listening to this program
S4: for free? Just go to summit.org/israel. It's a short book,
S4: just 120 pages, but it has 200 pieces of documentation
S4: on all the things we've just talked about.
S1: Well, that sounds good again, that website one more time Jeff.
S4: Summit.org/israel.
S1: And we'll put a link to that at our website.
S1: The land and the book.org. Well lots to think about
S1: and we sure appreciate your perspectives, Jeff. Doctor Jeff Myers
S1: of Summit Ministries joining us today on the land and
S1: the book. Look forward to another conversation. Jeff. Thank you John.
S1: Coming up, I'm looking forward to another great segment of
S1: Bible questions. Maybe one of them is yours here on
S1: the land and the book. Welcome back to segment three
S1: of The land and the book, which means it's time
S1: for this week's look at your Bible questions. Hi, I'm
S1: John Geiger with our host, Charlie Dyer, and we've got
S1: some great news we want to share with you somebody
S1: you've got to meet first, though, ask yourself, what does
S1: Passover mean for us as believers in Jesus. Some might
S1: remember the story from the book of Exodus, but there's
S1: so much more to it. Did you know that the
S1: Last Supper was actually a Passover meal? Not only did
S1: Jesus and his disciples celebrate Passover, it also foreshadowed his
S1: death on the cross for our redemption.
S2: Jewish people have been keeping the Passover for thousands of years.
S2: Understanding the history and importance of this holiday will help
S2: you better connect with your Jewish friends and neighbors. And
S2: what better way is there to learn about Passover than
S2: to experience a Passover Seder yourself? If you've never celebrated Passover?
S2: Our friends at Life in Messiah would love to partner
S2: with you in hosting a Seder experience. Every year, their
S2: staff engage churches and small groups in an interactive Messiah
S2: in the Passover Seder, allowing participants to taste and see
S2: the redemption story. If you're interested in having someone come
S2: lead a Seder in your area, visit Life and Messiah
S2: org and click on the Moody Radio button there to
S2: learn more. That's life in Messiah. Org.
S1: Well, Charlie, we've got an introduction we want to make,
S1: but first, help us understand the background on what's happening
S1: with this segment of the land and the book. Segment three.
S2: Yeah, John, we've been working together on land in the
S2: book for over 14 years, and I've loved every minute
S2: of it. Now, along the way, we've made tweaks and changes,
S2: which I think have helped make the program even better,
S2: like having you find and interview all our guests. You
S2: made that segment really shine, and I'm excited to announce
S2: another change we're making at the start of this new year.
S2: For most of our time on the air, though not all,
S2: I've been answering the Bible questions people write in with.
S2: But starting today, we're inviting in another friend and colleague
S2: to host this segment. I need to add right now,
S2: I'm not leaving the program. I'll still be here each week. Okay,
S2: but I want to focus on the current events at
S2: the beginning of the program and the devotional at the end.
S2: With everything going on in the Middle East, I want
S2: to spend as much time as possible focusing on the land.
S2: That's the first segment and the book, our devotional at
S2: the end. And that still means I'll be here every week.
S1: Well, we're relieved for that, Charlie, thank you for clarifying.
S1: So you're not leaving with that as important background, though,
S1: let's meet the guy who will be handling our listener questions. Charlie,
S1: he's no stranger to you because he joined the faculty
S1: when you were still provost of Moody Bible Institute.
S2: Yeah. That's true. I love Jerry Peterman, but let me
S2: get academic here and do a proper introduction. All right.
S2: Doctor Gerald Peterman has been on Moody's faculty since 2002.
S2: He's a Bible professor at Moody Bible Institute and the
S2: director of the Biblical and Theological Studies program at Moody
S2: Theological Seminary. Before coming to Moody, he taught at Palm
S2: Beach Atlantic College in West Palm Beach, Florida, spent four
S2: and a half years doing church planting in Florida and Iowa,
S2: and also served eight years in the Air National Guard
S2: as a chaplain.
S1: Doctor Peterman has written Joy and Tears The Emotional Life
S1: of the Christian also Between Pain and Grace A Biblical
S1: Theology of Suffering, co-authored with Andrew Schmutzer.
S2: You know, my best memory of Jerry is a trip
S2: we were on together in Israel. But I can tell
S2: you I appreciate his kindness, his humor, and his ability
S2: to communicate God's Word.
S1: So with that said, we got to say welcome to
S1: Jerry Peterman.
S6: Well thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. I
S6: don't deserve that introduction.
S2: We're waiting to see you walk on water, Jerry. But okay.
S6: Me too.
S1: So, you know, we haven't talked about yet is your family.
S1: Tell us about your family.
S6: Oh, wow. I've been married to my delightful wife, Margie,
S6: for a little over 40 years. Uh, we were married
S6: in 1984. I've got two daughters who are beautiful and intelligent,
S6: which means, obviously, they take after their mother. And from
S6: our oldest daughter, Bethany, we have our two granddaughters who
S6: are Victoria and Season. They live in California, sadly, with
S6: their mom and dad. So yeah, there are a lot
S6: of fun. I got I got to spend some time
S6: with them two weeks ago.
S1: Oh that's neat. Now, I understand that you like bicycling, reading,
S1: home improvement, and any opportunity to show hospitality. I bet
S1: you've got some hospitality stories in the background.
S6: Oh, well, thanks be to God. Um, Marge and I
S6: have been able to have moody students over twice a year,
S6: almost every year. So how many students have come through
S6: our house? Hundreds. Huh. So it's so much fun to
S6: just hang out with them on the deck and, you know,
S6: drink some coffee and have a hamburger and just talk really,
S6: really good time.
S2: Well, I hope all your listeners can see why we're
S2: so enthused about having Jerry Peterman join the team. So
S2: let me step back, John, and just have you guys
S2: dig into today's listener questions. We'll start with.
S1: A question from Jackie who takes us to revelation chapter
S1: two verse 17. Why do we receive a name that
S1: no one knows except the one who receives it? What's
S1: the point of having a name that nobody knows?
S6: I appreciate Jackie's question. I mean, what's the point? If
S6: we go back to Scripture, Old Testament, New Testament, we
S6: find out that in a name you discern the character
S6: of the individual in a name, you discern the authority
S6: of the individual. So when talking to Moses, our Lord says,
S6: Exodus 34, I will proclaim my name. And then what
S6: does he say? I'm I'm patient. I'm long suffering. I'm
S6: slow to anger. I'm rich in kindness. So this is
S6: about his character. So Jesus will give us this white stone.
S6: It's something precious just for us, with a secret between
S6: him and us, really, where he affirms us.
S1: Custom made. It's like custom bespoke.
S7: Yeah. It's like it's just. It's just for me.
S6: And so I think that name is a reflection of
S6: his appreciation for us and the intimacy between us. Hey,
S6: this is this is just for you and me. I'm
S6: talking about who you are as my disciple. And I
S6: think that name also is kind of reflects the authority
S6: we have under Christ to work on his behalf, to
S6: act in his name. So I think it's both a
S6: symbol of our relationship, as well as an indication of
S6: the authority we have through Christ. Because can you believe it?
S6: That is, Jesus works through us to spread his gospel.
S6: Jesus works through us to bring people forgiveness. And so
S6: that's that's part of the authority we have by being
S6: given this name from Christ.
S1: Another revelation question, this one in chapter three, verse 14,
S1: where Jesus is referred to as the Amen. If Amen
S1: means I agree with God, this listener wants to know
S1: is this name saying Jesus agrees with God that he
S1: obeys God or that he is God?
S6: I really appreciate that too. It's true. Amen. Has a
S6: sense of I affirm that. I agree with that. So
S6: what is going on when our Lord is called the Amen?
S6: That is through Jesus our Lord. God accomplishes his plan.
S6: That is all the promises of God are yes, in Jesus.
S6: And so that's what an amen is. It's a yes.
S6: So Jesus the son is the one who affirms and
S6: is affirmed by God with this. Amen. Would it go
S6: to this passage where the question is he's called the Amen.
S6: He's called the faithful true witness. He's called the ruler
S6: of God's creation. That is, the Lord is working through
S6: him and accomplishing his purposes, giving the yes to all
S6: the promises of God.
S1: You're listening to the land and the book doctor Jerry Peterman,
S1: answering your questions. We'll share how you can get yours
S1: to him later in the broadcast. Uh, this listener wants
S1: to know, is there a book or reference that has
S1: writings or biographies of the first Christians after the apostles
S1: like Irenaeus and Polycarp and so on? I was never
S1: taught church history growing up, but I'd like to learn
S1: more about these early church leaders.
S6: Yes, and that's a wonderful place for us to go
S6: to learn about the lives of saints from the past.
S6: So there are a couple of places to go. One
S6: title is called The Apostolic Fathers in English by Rick Brannon,
S6: Lexham Press. All right. Apostolic Fathers in English, Rick Brannon,
S6: Lexham press. And if you have Logos Bible software, this
S6: book is already going to be in there. Another one
S6: I can highly recommend getting to know the Church Fathers
S6: and Evangelical Introduction by Brian Litfin. Now, Brian Litfin taught
S6: for many years at Moody. He's a wonderful guy, by
S6: the way. I really appreciate his work. And that book
S6: is also available on Kindle and on paperback.
S1: Paul asks on Sunday, a woman wanted to know the
S1: ancestry of the Palestinian people, as well as the history
S1: of the Jewish Palestinian conflict. Do you have any suggestions?
S6: Oh, yes. This is this is something that Charlie Dyer
S6: knows a lot about. So I'm going to recommend you
S6: connect with him. Here's how you can do it. Charlie
S6: talked about this subject on this program back in October,
S6: October 5th, and that program is still available on the
S6: land and the book.org. So you can just go there,
S6: go under what's on air and look at the tab
S6: for October 5th, 2024. And at the 18 minute 32nd mark,
S6: John and Charlie are talking about this question and you'll
S6: get some answers there. Another place You Can Go is
S6: Charlie's recently released book by Moody Press in October of
S6: this year called Who Owns the Land? And you'll get
S6: a lot more than just the answer to this question
S6: from that book.
S1: Okay, check it out at The Land and the book.
S1: Org and again, Charlie's book is titled Who Owns the Land?
S1: Chris says, I have a question about how many temples
S1: have been in Jerusalem. Solomon built the first. The second
S1: was built in Nehemiah and Ezra's time, and the third
S1: will be built sometime in the future. So my question is,
S1: in Jesus day, why was it called Herod's Temple? Did
S1: he rebuild, remodel, or just claim the Second Temple is his?
S6: Great. We've got two questions here. First question. There has
S6: been two temples, one under Solomon, destroyed in 586 BC,
S6: and another rebuilt under Zerubbabel with Haggai and Zechariah's input.
S6: That was the middle of the sixth century, and that
S6: Second temple was kind of refurbished by Herod, significantly refurbished
S6: by Herod, which is why it's called Herod's Temple. So
S6: Herod's temple is the second temple.
S1: All right, Chris, I hope that clears things up for you.
S1: And as you listen, if you've got a question you'd
S1: like to send to us, you need to know we'd
S1: welcome that any old time. Just email us at The
S1: Land and the book@moody.edu. That's the land and the book@moody.edu. Now,
S1: as we move into this new year, two great ideas
S1: for a great start. First, connect with the station. Would
S1: you and thank them for airing the land and the book?
S1: So many other programs are vying for their attention, so
S1: thank them for carrying the land and the book. Secondly,
S1: would you email us and share how God has used
S1: the land and the book in your life? I'd love
S1: to hear from you at the land and the book@moody.edu.
S1: That's the land and the book at Moody Edu Charlie's devotional. Next.
S1: It's an image that is a bit faded in a
S1: culture that has dismissed God. The notion of a judge
S1: and people standing before him on Judgment Day. Welcome back
S1: to the land and the book. I'm John Gager. Charlie,
S1: the judgment seat of Christ at the focus of your devotional,
S1: is that correct?
S2: That is correct, John.
S1: Sounds like a sober moment to me. We'll find out, though,
S1: but not until we hear this Holy Land experience. I
S1: love these testimonies. Check this out.
S8: Hi, my name is Marty from mentor, Ohio. Our Holy
S8: Land experience is just incredible. The thing that stands out
S8: the most in my mind is the Sea of Galilee,
S8: the boat right on the Sea of Galilee. It was
S8: something that you just have to experience for yourself. The sights,
S8: the smells, the calmness of the sea as it started
S8: out as a very rough day. The voice of our
S8: master saying be still. Everything about it. This tour is
S8: just first class. You cannot get anything better than this.
S8: I know I was apprehensive personally about travel. I've watched
S8: that totally away. I this whole ten days that we've
S8: been here seems like maybe one. You just cannot imagine
S8: how wonderful this place is.
S1: All right, we're headed for Second Corinthians chapter five and Charlie,
S1: the judgment seat of Christ. What do we need to
S1: know a lot?
S2: John, I love Corinth, probably for all the wrong reasons.
S2: I remember driving from Athens to Corinth while a major
S2: wildfire burned along the roadway. I remember a mediterranean cruise
S2: aboard a three masted schooner and docking just outside the
S2: Corinthian Canal before heading to shore on an inflatable high
S2: speed zodiac. And I remember going exploring an ancient Corinth
S2: and using an article from Biblical Archaeology Review to search
S2: for the theater and the nearby inscription to Erastus, a
S2: believer who served as city treasurer in Corinth long before
S2: that inscription became accessible to most visitors. Oh, and the
S2: site itself. I loved it, though I know it's something
S2: of a disappointment to visitors who are expecting it to
S2: look like Ephesus or Laodicea or Beit She'an in Israel,
S2: or Jerash in Jordan. The excavations are rather minimal, but
S2: the history of the site more than makes up for
S2: the relative compactness of the actual area. Open to visitors.
S2: To really appreciate the site, one needs to reread the
S2: historical events that took place there in the book of acts,
S2: and then read first and second Corinthians, Paul's two extended
S2: letters to the church. And it doesn't hurt also to
S2: study the extrabiblical history of the site itself. You see,
S2: the New Testament city of Corinth represented commerce and corruption.
S2: The city grew up on a narrow isthmus linking central
S2: Greece with Greece's larger, finger shaped southern peninsula, the Peloponnesus.
S2: Because of its location, Corinth controlled strategic trade routes through Greece.
S2: Smaller ships, including naval vessels, were literally wheeled just over
S2: four miles across a paved trackway. Larger ships loaded with
S2: their cargo, which was then transported across the narrow isthmus,
S2: could be loaded onto another vessel on the other side.
S2: The journey from one side of the isthmus to the
S2: other would have taken about three hours, bypassing a much
S2: longer and more hazardous journey around the entire peninsula. Travelers
S2: far from home and family, sailors with money to spend,
S2: and a bustling economy made Corinth a cosmopolitan market with
S2: corrupt morals. Jutting up just south of the city is
S2: a rocky mountain called the Acrocorinth, that dominates the landscape
S2: in ancient times. A temple to Aphrodite, the goddess of love,
S2: stood on its crest. The Greek historian Strabo said the
S2: temple had 1000 courtesans, that is, temple prostitutes Institutes serving
S2: those who came to, quote, worship. The degree to which
S2: Corinth was given over to immorality is seen in the
S2: coining of the word Corinthian, literally two Corinthians, which meant
S2: to practice immorality, and Corinthian girl, which Plato used as
S2: a euphemism for a prostitute. In the heart of Corinth
S2: was the agora, or marketplace for the city. This was
S2: more than just a local farmer's market. The abundance of
S2: international trade made the Agora of Corinth a center for
S2: commerce and a hive of activity. The northern and western
S2: sides of the agora were lined with shops and roadways,
S2: extended both east and west from the agora to the
S2: nearby ports. In the center of Corinth Marketplace stood the bema,
S2: or speaker's platform. The local magistrate would sit at this
S2: location to judge administrative matters. In acts 18, the Bema
S2: played a pivotal role in Paul's ministry in Corinth. Paul's
S2: enemies made a united attack on Paul and brought him
S2: into court. In the original wording of the account, Luke
S2: says they literally brought Paul up to the bema. The
S2: judge in Corinth at the time was Gallio, the brother
S2: of Seneca, who was Emperor Nero's tutor. Paul's opponents thought
S2: they would make trouble for him by accusing Paul of
S2: promoting a religion not recognized by Rome. Paul's enemies said
S2: he was persuading the people to worship God in ways
S2: contrary to the law. The charges, if proven, were serious,
S2: but Gallio saw through the ruse before Paul could even
S2: answer his accusers. Gallio rejected the very basis for their accusation.
S2: I will not be a judge of such things, he said.
S2: He then had them ejected from the court. Literally, Luke says,
S2: they were driven away from the bema. This seat of
S2: administrative justice was a spot known to everyone in Corinth.
S2: And about five years after the incident in acts 18,
S2: Paul used the imagery of the bema to illustrate God's
S2: seat of justice, before which all believers will one day appear.
S2: Paul wrote at least three letters to the church in Corinth,
S2: two of which are included in the Bible. In both
S2: of these, Paul had to deal with spiritual laxness, interpersonal conflicts,
S2: and moral lapses in the church. The believers in Corinth
S2: knew God, but they kept slipping back into the moral
S2: cesspool of their society. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to live
S2: in light of eternity. In Second Corinthians 510, he reminded
S2: the church that we must all appear before the judgment seat,
S2: literally the bema of Christ, that each 1st May receive
S2: what is due him for the things done while in
S2: the body, whether good or bad. The people of Corinth
S2: knew what it was like to appear before the Bema
S2: Seat in Corinth. How infinitely more significant it will be
S2: to appear before the Lord Jesus Christ as he sits
S2: in judgment to evaluate our works as believers. Now, in
S2: this passage, Paul is not teaching that believers can lose
S2: their salvation, or that we somehow need to do good
S2: works to make it to heaven. Rather, he's referring to
S2: the eternal rewards believers will gain or forfeit based on
S2: their earthly actions. In first Corinthians three, Paul pictured this
S2: as a time when God will test the quality of
S2: each man's work. Any individual who lived a life of
S2: faithfulness and obedience will receive his reward. But if someone
S2: lived a life of self-centered disobedience, he will suffer loss.
S2: He himself will be saved, but only as one escaping
S2: through the flames. All true believers in Jesus Christ will
S2: be in heaven, but not everyone in heaven will be
S2: rewarded equally. We're all on a journey through the Agora,
S2: the marketplace of life. During this journey, we rub shoulders
S2: with many others. Pressed together in the throng. We all
S2: gaze at the wares spread out around us, and we
S2: all make choices on where best to invest our resources,
S2: our time, our talents, our treasures. But every decision has consequences,
S2: and someday we'll receive our summons to appear before God's bema.
S2: Jesus will be seated on the judgment seat, and with
S2: his piercing gaze, he'll sift through our actions and our motives.
S2: Good or bad, reward or rebuke, honor or dishonor. Well,
S2: as we get ready to head to the bus for
S2: our drive back to Athens, what can we take with
S2: us from our visit here in Corinth and our time
S2: standing in front of that raised Bema Seat platform that
S2: seems to dominate the area? Well, how about this? Paul
S2: used that platform as an illustration, a reminder that a
S2: far greater judgment seat in heaven awaits our arrival. And
S2: now is the time to prepare. We all need to
S2: weigh the eternal pros and cons of our actions before
S2: we make decisions. The Bema Seat of Corinth stands as
S2: a reminder that every day choices do have eternal consequences.
S2: We need to constantly remind ourselves of our impending summons
S2: before the Bema Seat of Christ. Pause today and ask
S2: God to help you gain his perspective on this life
S2: and on the life to come. Ask him to help
S2: you lift your eyes heavenward so that you can look
S2: beyond the glittering baubles being offered in the marketplace of life.
S2: To see heaven's Bema Seat standing off in the distance. Wow.
S1: Thank you Charlie. Everyday choices have an eternal consequence. Thanks
S1: for that crystal clear reminder. You can hear the entire
S1: broadcast again by the way, at our website, the land
S1: and the book. Org information about our guests, past programs,
S1: future programs, and more at the land and the books.org. Well,
S1: it's always a pleasure to have you listening, and we
S1: do hope you'll share us with your friends. Let them
S1: know about the land and the book and how it
S1: helps you. Would you do that? Thanks so much. Our
S1: time is gone, but I want to say thank you
S1: to Dan Anderson, our producer, our host, Charlie Dyer. I'm
S1: John Gager. The land and the book is a production
S1: of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.