1 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:13,220 S1: What does Gen Z think about Israel? Born between 1997 2 00:00:13,220 --> 00:00:16,820 S1: and 2012, these Americans have their own take on the 3 00:00:16,820 --> 00:00:21,560 S1: Arab-Israeli conflict. To them, facts seem to matter less than feelings, 4 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,760 S1: and their feelings are predominantly anti-Israel. Why do they think 5 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,220 S1: the way they do, and how can we engage them 6 00:00:28,220 --> 00:00:31,760 S1: in respectful dialogue? Welcome to the land and the book, 7 00:00:31,790 --> 00:00:34,160 S1: where we're about to engage in an eye opening discussion 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,820 S1: about Gen Z and the Israel conflict. Our host is 9 00:00:37,820 --> 00:00:40,190 S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer, a guy who's traveled to the Middle 10 00:00:40,190 --> 00:00:44,479 S1: East more than 100 times. I'm his sidekick, John Gager. And, 11 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,240 S1: you know, many people wonder, what does Passover mean for 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:51,379 S1: us as believers in Jesus, Charlie? Some might remember the 13 00:00:51,380 --> 00:00:53,420 S1: story from the book of Exodus, but there's so much 14 00:00:53,420 --> 00:00:55,340 S1: more to it. For example, did you know that the 15 00:00:55,340 --> 00:00:59,060 S1: Last Supper was actually a Passover meal? Not only did 16 00:00:59,060 --> 00:01:03,570 S1: Jesus and his disciples celebrate Passover, it also foreshadowed his 17 00:01:03,570 --> 00:01:05,820 S1: death on the cross for our redemption. 18 00:01:05,850 --> 00:01:08,370 S2: Jewish people have been keeping the feast of Passover for 19 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,300 S2: thousands of years. Understanding the history and importance of this 20 00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:15,360 S2: holiday will help you better connect with your Jewish friends 21 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,029 S2: and neighbors. And what better way is there to learn 22 00:01:18,030 --> 00:01:22,140 S2: about Passover than to experience a Passover Seder yourself? If 23 00:01:22,170 --> 00:01:25,740 S2: you've never celebrated Passover? Our friends at Life and Messiah 24 00:01:25,740 --> 00:01:29,340 S2: would love to partner with you in hosting a Seder experience. 25 00:01:29,340 --> 00:01:32,730 S2: Every year, their staff engage churches and small groups in 26 00:01:32,730 --> 00:01:37,140 S2: an interactive Messiah in the Passover Seder, allowing participants to 27 00:01:37,170 --> 00:01:40,770 S2: taste and see the redemption story. If you're interested in 28 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,650 S2: having someone come and lead a Seder in your area, 29 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,890 S2: visit Life in Messiah. Org and click on the Moody 30 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:51,510 S2: Radio button there to learn more. That's life in messiah.org. 31 00:01:51,690 --> 00:01:54,600 S1: Well, a new year brings a fresh slate. An open 32 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,830 S1: calendar of still unknown possibilities and problems. Charlie, we know 33 00:01:58,830 --> 00:02:02,250 S1: you're not a prophet, but with what we know right now, 34 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,380 S1: could I just ask, what might the New Year have 35 00:02:04,380 --> 00:02:07,560 S1: in store for Israel and the Middle East at large 36 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,950 S1: in terms of war? Could a period of peace finally 37 00:02:10,950 --> 00:02:11,910 S1: break out? 38 00:02:11,940 --> 00:02:13,860 S2: You know, I'm not a prophet, but I like to 39 00:02:13,860 --> 00:02:16,230 S2: go to the Bible because it provides good answers. And 40 00:02:16,230 --> 00:02:19,380 S2: in this case, when Jesus talked about the future for Israel, 41 00:02:19,410 --> 00:02:22,110 S2: he told his disciples they would hear of wars and 42 00:02:22,110 --> 00:02:24,870 S2: rumors of wars. And then he added, but see that 43 00:02:24,870 --> 00:02:27,089 S2: you're not frightened. And I think that's a good general 44 00:02:27,090 --> 00:02:31,169 S2: application for us. It does look like the fighting between Israel, 45 00:02:31,169 --> 00:02:35,220 S2: Hezbollah and Hamas could be winding down. It's possible a 46 00:02:35,220 --> 00:02:38,130 S2: deal will be reached to release the remaining hostages who've 47 00:02:38,130 --> 00:02:40,980 S2: been held by Hamas for over a year. That would 48 00:02:40,980 --> 00:02:44,130 S2: be celebrated in Israel, though it will come at a price. 49 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,940 S2: Hezbollah has been severely degraded, and they're unlikely to try 50 00:02:47,940 --> 00:02:49,980 S2: to resume the fight with Israel any time in the 51 00:02:49,980 --> 00:02:53,280 S2: near future. Both of these are good outcomes, but that 52 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,100 S2: doesn't mean the region is heading into a time of peace. 53 00:02:56,130 --> 00:02:59,329 S2: One of the key sticking points will remain Israel's conflict 54 00:02:59,330 --> 00:03:03,770 S2: with the Palestinians. President elect Trump will push to reinvigorate 55 00:03:03,770 --> 00:03:07,280 S2: the Abraham Accords, hoping to have Saudi Arabia and Israel 56 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,280 S2: sign a peace treaty. Were that to happen, it's likely 57 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,400 S2: that many other Muslim countries would join in. But the 58 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,429 S2: Saudis have said they won't do this until Israel provides 59 00:03:16,430 --> 00:03:20,480 S2: a pathway forward for a Palestinian state. And Israel is 60 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,150 S2: very reluctant to do that. It's even more of a 61 00:03:23,150 --> 00:03:26,660 S2: problem right now, since many believe the Palestinian Authority is 62 00:03:26,660 --> 00:03:29,869 S2: in danger of collapsing, just like the government of Syria 63 00:03:29,870 --> 00:03:33,500 S2: did at the end of the year. Most Palestinians detest 64 00:03:33,500 --> 00:03:36,890 S2: the Palestinian Authority for its corruption. They would prefer an 65 00:03:36,890 --> 00:03:40,850 S2: Islamic group like Hamas over the current system of nepotism 66 00:03:40,850 --> 00:03:45,890 S2: and dishonesty. Islamic fundamentalists around Jenin and Tulkarem are already 67 00:03:45,890 --> 00:03:50,210 S2: pushing to replace the Palestinian Authority. Israel's wars against Hamas 68 00:03:50,210 --> 00:03:53,630 S2: and Hezbollah could be replaced with a renewed fight against 69 00:03:53,630 --> 00:03:57,440 S2: Islamic fundamentalists in the West Bank area, very similar to 70 00:03:57,470 --> 00:04:01,160 S2: the conflict during the first and second intifadas. Iran has 71 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,770 S2: already begun trying to stir up trouble in the area, 72 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,410 S2: as a way of regaining a measure of influence and 73 00:04:06,410 --> 00:04:09,470 S2: relevance following the defeat of the other members of their 74 00:04:09,470 --> 00:04:13,280 S2: so-called Axis of Resistance. Israel will be keeping a close 75 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,000 S2: eye on any upsurge in conflict with the Palestinians, and 76 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,020 S2: so will we. 77 00:04:18,050 --> 00:04:20,990 S1: Well, you mentioned in passing the collapse of Syria and 78 00:04:20,990 --> 00:04:24,109 S1: the setbacks faced by Iran. I'd like to follow up 79 00:04:24,110 --> 00:04:26,750 S1: on that by asking about both countries, what might be 80 00:04:26,750 --> 00:04:30,200 S1: in store for Syria, and what about Iran, too? As 81 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,140 S1: the new year begins, and particularly as a new US 82 00:04:33,140 --> 00:04:34,640 S1: president takes office? 83 00:04:34,670 --> 00:04:37,430 S2: Yeah, well, everyone's cheering the fall of the Assad regime 84 00:04:37,430 --> 00:04:40,490 S2: in Syria. It's still unclear what the government that eventually 85 00:04:40,490 --> 00:04:43,910 S2: replaces him is going to look like. One real possibility 86 00:04:43,910 --> 00:04:46,970 S2: is that Syria could develop into civil war with the 87 00:04:46,970 --> 00:04:51,980 S2: different ethnic and religious groups fighting one another. A second possibility, though, 88 00:04:52,130 --> 00:04:55,359 S2: is that the rebel jihadist groups, including those aligned with 89 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,290 S2: the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda and ISIS, could unite and 90 00:04:59,290 --> 00:05:03,760 S2: turn Syria into an Islamic fundamentalist state ruled by Sharia law. 91 00:05:03,790 --> 00:05:07,390 S2: Now that's a very real concern. The third scenario is 92 00:05:07,390 --> 00:05:09,940 S2: that Turkey will move in to replace Iran as the 93 00:05:09,940 --> 00:05:13,480 S2: dominant influence in Syria, helping to prop up and maintain 94 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,870 S2: Syria's new leader. That could also spell trouble for the 95 00:05:16,870 --> 00:05:20,950 S2: Kurdish groups in Syria. Iran definitely suffered a reversal in 96 00:05:20,950 --> 00:05:23,169 S2: fortune as the last year drew to a close. They 97 00:05:23,170 --> 00:05:25,990 S2: lost their main threat to Israel, which were the forces 98 00:05:25,990 --> 00:05:28,450 S2: of Hezbollah and Lebanon. And that was followed by the 99 00:05:28,450 --> 00:05:31,750 S2: fall of Syria, which was their main supply route for Hezbollah. 100 00:05:31,779 --> 00:05:34,390 S2: They were also hoping to use Syria's border with Israel 101 00:05:34,420 --> 00:05:37,960 S2: to open up still another front similar to that in Lebanon. 102 00:05:37,990 --> 00:05:41,740 S2: Israel has now made that an impossibility by taking control 103 00:05:41,740 --> 00:05:44,680 S2: of the area along the border, and by destroying Syria's 104 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:49,060 S2: arsenal of weapons. In addition, Israel decimated Iran's and Syria's 105 00:05:49,060 --> 00:05:52,210 S2: air defenses, leaving Iran open to air attack by Israel 106 00:05:52,210 --> 00:05:56,170 S2: or the US. Iran's public statements are still full of bravado, 107 00:05:56,170 --> 00:06:00,700 S2: but privately they're feeling vulnerable. President elect Trump might just 108 00:06:00,700 --> 00:06:03,070 S2: be the wild card to help keep things from spiraling 109 00:06:03,070 --> 00:06:06,700 S2: out of control. Iran sees him as unpredictable and as 110 00:06:06,700 --> 00:06:09,790 S2: someone who's willing to act until Iran knows what his 111 00:06:09,790 --> 00:06:12,940 S2: goals and his red lines are in the region. They'll 112 00:06:12,940 --> 00:06:14,469 S2: likely tread lightly. 113 00:06:14,470 --> 00:06:18,010 S1: If you're joining us midstream, that's Doctor Charlie Dyer, noted 114 00:06:18,010 --> 00:06:20,890 S1: Middle East expert. I'm John Gager. Taking a look at 115 00:06:20,890 --> 00:06:23,049 S1: the New Year and what it might just bring in 116 00:06:23,050 --> 00:06:26,380 S1: the Middle East, an obvious concern as we begin this 117 00:06:26,380 --> 00:06:30,580 S1: new year remains Iran's nuclear program. Will the New Year 118 00:06:30,610 --> 00:06:34,000 S1: see a resolution to their nuclear threat, or could this 119 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,270 S1: be the next major point of conflict? What is the status, though? 120 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,080 S1: Any impact from the recent Israeli attack? Well, the. 121 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,900 S2: Reports coming out of that region suggest Iran is now 122 00:06:43,900 --> 00:06:48,280 S2: racing to increase its stockpile of highly enriched uranium. The 123 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,070 S2: best guess I've seen is that they've amassed enough uranium 124 00:06:51,070 --> 00:06:54,029 S2: at that high level to eventually assemble up to 10 125 00:06:54,029 --> 00:06:58,000 S2: or 12 nuclear devices. However, they've apparently not yet begun 126 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,599 S2: actually assembling those bombs. Israel and the US both have 127 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,810 S2: said they won't allow Iran to possess nuclear weapons, so 128 00:07:04,810 --> 00:07:07,420 S2: it appears something is going to need to happen this year. 129 00:07:07,420 --> 00:07:11,050 S2: What's not known is how President Trump will handle the situation. 130 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,260 S2: Having taken the US out of the previous nuclear agreement, 131 00:07:14,260 --> 00:07:17,560 S2: it's possible he'll seek to replace that with a stronger 132 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,800 S2: agreement to keep Iran from becoming a nuclear power. It's 133 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,190 S2: also possible he'll move more forcefully, perhaps with Israel, to 134 00:07:24,220 --> 00:07:28,150 S2: set back Iran's program by attacking the facilities where uranium 135 00:07:28,150 --> 00:07:31,900 S2: is being processed. Certainly, a credible threat to eliminate Iran's 136 00:07:31,900 --> 00:07:35,020 S2: nuclear program could be the incentive needed to get Iran 137 00:07:35,020 --> 00:07:39,340 S2: to agree to a more realistic treaty. Some dismiss the threat, though, 138 00:07:39,370 --> 00:07:41,619 S2: of a nuclear Iran, saying even if Iran were to 139 00:07:41,650 --> 00:07:45,010 S2: possess nuclear weapons, no rational government would ever use them 140 00:07:45,010 --> 00:07:48,190 S2: because it would assure their own destruction. But that kind 141 00:07:48,190 --> 00:07:51,040 S2: of an argument ignores the fact that Iran is controlled 142 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,820 S2: by religious clerics, whose version of reality is shaped by 143 00:07:54,820 --> 00:07:59,770 S2: Shiite eschatology, which believes a worldwide conflagration is necessary for 144 00:07:59,770 --> 00:08:03,160 S2: the arrival of the Mahdi, the Islamic messiah. The one 145 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,410 S2: thing that does seem certain, though this could be the 146 00:08:05,410 --> 00:08:09,550 S2: year when the future of Iran's nuclear program will get decided. 147 00:08:09,550 --> 00:08:13,330 S1: Finally, what will the New Year bring in terms of tourism? 148 00:08:13,330 --> 00:08:16,840 S1: Will Israel finally see a return of tourists in large numbers, 149 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,330 S1: or will the situation in the Middle East continue to 150 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:20,440 S1: keep people away? 151 00:08:20,470 --> 00:08:22,390 S2: You know, John, I had to guard myself to keep 152 00:08:22,390 --> 00:08:25,480 S2: from becoming overly optimistic here, but I am excited. I'm 153 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,750 S2: an optimist in this regard. I do expect tourism to 154 00:08:28,780 --> 00:08:32,290 S2: start out slowly in 2025, but as people see the 155 00:08:32,290 --> 00:08:35,530 S2: wars against Hamas and Hezbollah starting to appear in their 156 00:08:35,530 --> 00:08:38,350 S2: rear view mirror, the pent up demand to visit the 157 00:08:38,350 --> 00:08:40,870 S2: lands of the Bible is going to. I think once again, 158 00:08:40,870 --> 00:08:43,630 S2: pick up and look for those tourists to begin in 159 00:08:43,630 --> 00:08:46,599 S2: the early spring. Now some of these will be smaller groups, 160 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,260 S2: but the size will gradually increase by the fall. I 161 00:08:50,260 --> 00:08:53,350 S2: think Israel will see solid numbers of tourists from the U.S. 162 00:08:53,350 --> 00:08:57,850 S2: traveling there. Those traveling in the spring will experience two realities. 163 00:08:57,850 --> 00:09:01,060 S2: The first is that all the logistics might still be 164 00:09:01,059 --> 00:09:05,530 S2: a bit rusty. Hotels, sites, buses, the restaurants, they're going 165 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,200 S2: to be just coming back online. And some of the 166 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,200 S2: staff might still be in military service. But on the 167 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,590 S2: other side of the scale, the sites will be relatively empty. 168 00:09:14,620 --> 00:09:18,100 S2: There's nothing like having a site all to yourself now. 169 00:09:18,100 --> 00:09:20,920 S2: As the year goes on and tourism increases, the sites 170 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,550 S2: will return to a more normal level of tourism. Personally, 171 00:09:24,550 --> 00:09:27,939 S2: my next trip, John, is in early November. That'll give Israel, 172 00:09:27,940 --> 00:09:31,060 S2: I hope, enough time to get everything running smoothly while 173 00:09:31,059 --> 00:09:34,719 S2: still not becoming too crowded. Israel was shut down for 174 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,110 S2: almost two years because of Covid. They returned to normal, 175 00:09:38,110 --> 00:09:41,620 S2: only to be shut down again following Hamas's attack back 176 00:09:41,620 --> 00:09:45,340 S2: in October of 2023. That's created a lot of pent 177 00:09:45,370 --> 00:09:48,280 S2: up demand for tourism, demand that I think is soon 178 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,189 S2: going to be unleashed. And when it is, I'm looking 179 00:09:51,190 --> 00:09:52,870 S2: for a flood of tourists and I think it's going 180 00:09:52,870 --> 00:09:54,189 S2: to start this year. 181 00:09:54,220 --> 00:09:57,490 S1: Charlie, how likely is it that in this calendar year, 182 00:09:57,490 --> 00:10:01,030 S1: the trial against Netanyahu will, one way or another, wrap up? 183 00:10:01,059 --> 00:10:03,429 S2: You know, they're actually predicting that it won't wrap up 184 00:10:03,429 --> 00:10:06,730 S2: and it could go on into 2026. And then they 185 00:10:06,730 --> 00:10:09,790 S2: say even then, there could be appeals to the Supreme Court. 186 00:10:09,790 --> 00:10:12,400 S2: So it could extend beyond that. It's the trial that 187 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:13,570 S2: will never end. 188 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,420 S1: Well, as we move further into this new year, one 189 00:10:16,420 --> 00:10:20,170 S1: great resolution you might make is to notify the station 190 00:10:20,170 --> 00:10:22,630 S1: of your own appreciation for the broadcast. You know, they 191 00:10:22,630 --> 00:10:25,630 S1: got lots of folks vying for airtime. Other requests. But 192 00:10:25,630 --> 00:10:28,959 S1: they have kindly made space for this broadcast that you enjoy. 193 00:10:28,990 --> 00:10:31,990 S1: Why not thank them with a card, a letter, an email, 194 00:10:31,990 --> 00:10:34,930 S1: a phone call, whatever you might choose. Appreciate your doing 195 00:10:34,929 --> 00:10:37,990 S1: that on our behalf. And coming up, a great conversation 196 00:10:37,990 --> 00:10:41,350 S1: about what Gen Z thinks about Israel and how we 197 00:10:41,350 --> 00:10:44,140 S1: can engage them in a respectful way. Next on the 198 00:10:44,140 --> 00:11:02,710 S1: land and the book. What does Gen Z think about Israel? 199 00:11:02,740 --> 00:11:07,780 S1: Born between 1997 and 2012, these Americans have their own 200 00:11:07,780 --> 00:11:11,560 S1: take on the Arab-Israeli conflict. To them, facts seem to 201 00:11:11,590 --> 00:11:16,630 S1: matter less than feelings, and their feelings are predominantly anti-Israel. 202 00:11:16,660 --> 00:11:19,480 S1: Why do they think the way they do? How can 203 00:11:19,510 --> 00:11:23,200 S1: we engage them in respectful, constructive dialogue? This is the 204 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,900 S1: land and the book. I'm John Gager, and boy, have 205 00:11:25,900 --> 00:11:29,260 S1: we got an important conversation ahead. Before we dig in, though, 206 00:11:29,290 --> 00:11:32,559 S1: let's ask ourselves how we can be more intentional in 207 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:36,580 S1: sharing Christ with a Jewish friend or neighbor or coworker. Well, 208 00:11:36,580 --> 00:11:39,160 S1: there you are. And you have started a friendship with 209 00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:42,130 S1: a Jewish friend, and you're wondering what's a first step 210 00:11:42,130 --> 00:11:45,400 S1: in reaching out to them with Messiah Jesus? That's a 211 00:11:45,420 --> 00:11:47,910 S1: question we'll throw at Eva Radonic. What do you say? 212 00:11:47,910 --> 00:11:48,480 S1: What's a first. 213 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,970 S3: Step? I think the first step is to have a 214 00:11:50,970 --> 00:11:55,860 S3: genuine personal relationship. You know, just to begin communication. And 215 00:11:55,860 --> 00:11:58,200 S3: I think this is true with non-Jewish people as well 216 00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:59,880 S3: as Jewish people, that if you want to share the 217 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:02,370 S3: person that you love the most in the world with 218 00:12:02,370 --> 00:12:04,620 S3: a person that you're just getting to know, it has 219 00:12:04,620 --> 00:12:05,550 S3: to begin with friendship. 220 00:12:05,550 --> 00:12:08,490 S1: I think of former Moody Bible Institute President Michael Easley. 221 00:12:08,490 --> 00:12:10,470 S1: He said, for a friendship to develop, you have to 222 00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:13,800 S1: have two things common interests and time. Yes. 223 00:12:13,830 --> 00:12:16,740 S3: Got to spend time together. Exactly. Common interest in the time. 224 00:12:16,740 --> 00:12:18,449 S3: So what you look for are things that you have 225 00:12:18,450 --> 00:12:21,929 S3: in common. And then look for opportunities to spend time together. 226 00:12:21,929 --> 00:12:25,770 S3: And as a result of those two elements, then conversation 227 00:12:25,770 --> 00:12:28,710 S3: will come up. And, you know, prayerfully that conversation can 228 00:12:28,710 --> 00:12:30,780 S3: be directed toward the Messiah. 229 00:12:30,809 --> 00:12:32,220 S1: It's interesting what you're saying, because I think a lot 230 00:12:32,250 --> 00:12:34,589 S1: of times we want to jump right to that conversation 231 00:12:34,590 --> 00:12:38,010 S1: so quickly, and that might well be ill advised. You're saying, right. 232 00:12:38,010 --> 00:12:40,949 S3: Because if you go right to the conversation before they're 233 00:12:40,950 --> 00:12:44,250 S3: ready to hear, the door closes and it's very hard 234 00:12:44,250 --> 00:12:46,200 S3: to pull that door open once it's shut. 235 00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:48,929 S1: How to take a good first step? That's Eva Radonich, 236 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,510 S1: adjunct faculty member at the Moody Bible Institute here on 237 00:12:51,510 --> 00:12:55,890 S1: the land and the book doctor. Jeff Myers is president 238 00:12:55,890 --> 00:12:59,520 S1: of Summit Ministries. As an educator, Doctor Myers has become 239 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,720 S1: one of America's most respected authorities on youth leadership development. 240 00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:07,410 S1: Through his speaking engagements and media appearances, Doctor Myers has 241 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,470 S1: become a fresh voice, offering humor and insight from a 242 00:13:10,470 --> 00:13:16,079 S1: Christian worldview. He's authored 18 books, including Should Christians Support Israel? 243 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,300 S1: We had him on to talk about that. Jeff and 244 00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:20,910 S1: his wife Stephanie and their family live in Colorado, and 245 00:13:20,910 --> 00:13:23,219 S1: we are really glad to connect with you again here 246 00:13:23,220 --> 00:13:24,870 S1: on the land and the book. Jeff. 247 00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:26,730 S4: John, I'm looking forward to the conversation. 248 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:28,950 S1: All right. Let's begin with a statistical look at the 249 00:13:28,950 --> 00:13:34,290 S1: problem in a New York Times Siena poll from December. 55% 250 00:13:34,290 --> 00:13:39,300 S1: of respondents ages 18 to 29 oppose the United States 251 00:13:39,300 --> 00:13:43,830 S1: sending more aid to Israel, 55%. Another poll from Quinnipiac 252 00:13:43,860 --> 00:13:48,150 S1: University in November found that 52% of voters under 35 253 00:13:48,150 --> 00:13:52,290 S1: are more sympathetic to the Palestinians. On TikTok, where half 254 00:13:52,290 --> 00:13:56,910 S1: the users are under 30. Hashtag Free Palestine has 31 255 00:13:56,910 --> 00:14:02,819 S1: billion posts, compared to 590 million for hashtag stand with Israel. 256 00:14:02,850 --> 00:14:06,239 S1: More than 50 times as many. So what are we 257 00:14:06,270 --> 00:14:08,730 S1: to make of all this? That's our discussion now with 258 00:14:08,730 --> 00:14:11,880 S1: Doctor Jeff Myers. Jeff is the essential problem that Gen 259 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:16,140 S1: Z is less influenced by facts, or that they're believing 260 00:14:16,140 --> 00:14:18,540 S1: lies that have been sold as facts. 261 00:14:18,660 --> 00:14:21,690 S4: Those polls you gave are very important. I would add 262 00:14:21,690 --> 00:14:24,570 S4: one to it. A poll that we did asking Gen 263 00:14:24,570 --> 00:14:28,260 S4: Z questions about Israel. And I think what we discovered 264 00:14:28,260 --> 00:14:32,760 S4: in our poll is this Gen Z believes that Israel 265 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,270 S4: has greater wealth and military power, and by definition, they 266 00:14:36,270 --> 00:14:40,830 S4: believe that makes their cause against Hamas unjust. So where 267 00:14:40,830 --> 00:14:44,580 S4: did that idea come from? That Israel is a bully 268 00:14:44,580 --> 00:14:47,489 S4: and they need to be shut down. Some of it's 269 00:14:47,490 --> 00:14:50,820 S4: our own parenting. We taught our kids not to be 270 00:14:50,820 --> 00:14:54,750 S4: bullies and to stand against bullies. We didn't realize, though, 271 00:14:54,780 --> 00:14:58,770 S4: how the education system and social media platforms like TikTok, 272 00:14:58,770 --> 00:15:03,060 S4: where 40% of Gen Z gets their news, weaponize that 273 00:15:03,060 --> 00:15:07,950 S4: and turn it into an oppressor versus oppressed narrative that 274 00:15:07,950 --> 00:15:10,410 S4: fits into a radical agenda. 275 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,170 S1: So what are some other myths that, or maybe half 276 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,480 S1: truths that Gen Z has bought into? 277 00:15:15,540 --> 00:15:19,710 S4: One big question was the question of proportionality. If Israel 278 00:15:19,710 --> 00:15:23,820 S4: has greater military power and their actions against Hamas are 279 00:15:23,820 --> 00:15:28,650 S4: blistering and affecting civilians, is that a proportional response to 280 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:34,020 S4: the October 7th massacre, in which 1200 Israelis were killed, 281 00:15:34,020 --> 00:15:39,600 S4: raped and mutilated and 254 more taken hostage? And I 282 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,810 S4: think what I realized along the way is that proportionality 283 00:15:42,810 --> 00:15:45,780 S4: is based on the threat, not based on the number 284 00:15:45,780 --> 00:15:48,630 S4: of deaths. A war is not an eye for an 285 00:15:48,630 --> 00:15:52,740 S4: eye situation. A war is trying to eliminate the source 286 00:15:52,740 --> 00:15:57,000 S4: of some evil. So the alternative to a just peace 287 00:15:57,030 --> 00:16:01,230 S4: is a shameful peace. And Israel, clearly in this situation, 288 00:16:01,260 --> 00:16:04,020 S4: after having put up with groups like Hamas and their 289 00:16:04,020 --> 00:16:08,040 S4: attacks on Israeli civilians for decades, decided that's no longer 290 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,050 S4: an option, that they have to go to the source 291 00:16:10,050 --> 00:16:13,080 S4: and eliminate the problem. And what I further discovered, John, 292 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:17,400 S4: is that Israel has done more in this current war 293 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:22,770 S4: to limit noncombatant casualties than any other army in history. 294 00:16:22,770 --> 00:16:26,160 S4: That's the conclusion of John Spencer, who is America's leading 295 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:30,270 S4: expert on protecting noncombatants in the time of war. So 296 00:16:30,270 --> 00:16:34,290 S4: the situation immediately became much more complicated than what's being 297 00:16:34,290 --> 00:16:37,740 S4: presented in social media, just by looking at those facts 298 00:16:37,740 --> 00:16:38,580 S4: on the ground. 299 00:16:38,610 --> 00:16:41,280 S1: This is the Land and the book. Segment two. I'm 300 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,610 S1: John Gager, joined today by Doctor Jeff Myers, president of 301 00:16:44,610 --> 00:16:48,660 S1: Summit Ministries. You've invested hour after hour in conversations with 302 00:16:48,660 --> 00:16:52,229 S1: Gen Z. I'm curious, what is their response when you 303 00:16:52,230 --> 00:16:55,050 S1: present them with historical objective truth? 304 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,470 S4: You know, John, the young adults I've talked to and 305 00:16:58,470 --> 00:17:02,100 S4: it's been more than a thousand this summer in an 306 00:17:02,100 --> 00:17:06,330 S4: hour long Q&A dialogues, I think, when they hear the truth. 307 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,909 S4: A couple of things come into their mind. One is, 308 00:17:08,910 --> 00:17:11,879 S4: why haven't we heard this? Can this really be true? 309 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,820 S4: Because this is different than anything that we have heard 310 00:17:14,820 --> 00:17:18,900 S4: in our TikTok feed or anyplace else. And the second 311 00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:22,200 S4: one is, okay, so Israel is doing what it has 312 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:26,940 S4: to do. We understand that. But how does that affect Americans? 313 00:17:26,970 --> 00:17:31,230 S4: Why should Americans in general care? And why should Christians 314 00:17:31,230 --> 00:17:36,450 S4: in particular care about this? Israel is one of 193 315 00:17:36,450 --> 00:17:39,810 S4: nations in the world. Why should that get our special attention? 316 00:17:39,810 --> 00:17:42,360 S4: I would say those are the dominant questions. 317 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:46,230 S1: What does Gen Z really believe about Israel and why? 318 00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:48,900 S1: That's at the heart of today's conversation on the land 319 00:17:48,900 --> 00:17:53,430 S1: and the book with Doctor Jeff Myers, president of Summit Ministries. Hey, Jeff, 320 00:17:53,430 --> 00:17:56,220 S1: if Gen Z is as cause oriented as we've been told, 321 00:17:56,220 --> 00:17:58,469 S1: why is it such a stretch for most of them 322 00:17:58,470 --> 00:18:02,190 S1: to see Israel surrounded by hostile neighbors, determined to wipe 323 00:18:02,190 --> 00:18:05,399 S1: out their existence as a cause to get behind? 324 00:18:05,430 --> 00:18:08,700 S4: John? There's only one answer to that question. Israel is 325 00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:13,320 S4: supported by America, and Gen Z doesn't like America. I 326 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,979 S4: know that sounds crazy, but people in my generation, 65 327 00:18:17,980 --> 00:18:21,869 S4: to 70% say they are happy to live in the 328 00:18:21,869 --> 00:18:24,030 S4: United States. Do you know what the figure is for 329 00:18:24,030 --> 00:18:29,580 S4: Gen Z? 16%. Virtually all Gen Z young people think 330 00:18:29,580 --> 00:18:32,760 S4: that America is largely a force for evil than for 331 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,820 S4: good in the world. So they think that making moral 332 00:18:35,820 --> 00:18:40,379 S4: decisions about foreign policy issues just involves following the money. 333 00:18:40,410 --> 00:18:44,070 S4: Who is America supporting? And then that's probably bad. 334 00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:46,440 S1: Well, how is that countered then? I mean, it's such 335 00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:48,690 S1: a distant thought from where most of us are. 336 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,080 S4: I think if we acknowledge to young adults that the 337 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,490 S4: political rhetoric can be extreme sometimes and that people say 338 00:18:56,490 --> 00:18:59,370 S4: criticisms of the United States from the left and from 339 00:18:59,369 --> 00:19:01,740 S4: the right, but all of those things are for the 340 00:19:01,740 --> 00:19:05,370 S4: purpose of making a better nation, not for the purpose 341 00:19:05,369 --> 00:19:08,940 S4: of tearing America down. And if they were to understand 342 00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:12,720 S4: that and recognize that, you know what being an adult means, 343 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,060 S4: that you have to engage in the dialogue. You have 344 00:19:15,060 --> 00:19:18,480 S4: to sort through the different messages. Just because somebody says 345 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,930 S4: something on television doesn't mean it's true. Just because somebody 346 00:19:21,930 --> 00:19:24,540 S4: says something on TikTok doesn't mean it's true. Just because 347 00:19:24,540 --> 00:19:27,840 S4: it rings true to you doesn't mean that it's true. 348 00:19:27,869 --> 00:19:30,510 S4: You have to search out the truth. Yeah. 349 00:19:30,540 --> 00:19:33,869 S1: Well, how can we answer the widespread Gen Z charge 350 00:19:33,869 --> 00:19:37,550 S1: that Israel's war action in Gaza is genocide. Boy, you 351 00:19:37,580 --> 00:19:38,660 S1: hear a lot of that. 352 00:19:38,690 --> 00:19:41,480 S4: You do hear a lot of that. And genocide means 353 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,690 S4: the intentional elimination of a people group as a group. 354 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,350 S4: And if you look at what's happened in Gaza, you 355 00:19:48,350 --> 00:19:51,530 S4: don't see that Israel is doing that. Typically, in an 356 00:19:51,530 --> 00:19:56,450 S4: urban warfare situation, nine civilians or non-combatants are killed. For 357 00:19:56,450 --> 00:20:00,440 S4: every combatant killed in this current situation, it's about 1 358 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,280 S4: to 1. It's terrible when non-combatants die in a time 359 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,920 S4: of war. It's terrible when their homes get destroyed. It's 360 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,580 S4: terrible when they are displaced. But that in and of 361 00:20:10,580 --> 00:20:13,669 S4: itself does not mean that it's genocidal. In fact, a 362 00:20:13,670 --> 00:20:16,850 S4: new report that's come out said that 80% of those 363 00:20:16,850 --> 00:20:20,149 S4: who are killed in Gaza are the terrorists themselves and 364 00:20:20,150 --> 00:20:24,020 S4: their families who they are hiding behind, so that when 365 00:20:24,050 --> 00:20:27,980 S4: Israel attacks, non-combatants will be killed and will be considered 366 00:20:27,980 --> 00:20:31,880 S4: to be martyrs as kind of a perverse moral justification 367 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:32,960 S4: of the cause. 368 00:20:32,990 --> 00:20:35,210 S1: Today, on the land and the book A visit with 369 00:20:35,210 --> 00:20:37,970 S1: Doctor Jeff Myers of Summit Ministries. We're talking about what 370 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,990 S1: Gen Z really believes about Israel and why. Obviously, Jeff, 371 00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:44,900 S1: there's a strong biblical case for Christians to support Israel. 372 00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:47,750 S1: But what about secular America? On what grounds do we 373 00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:49,760 S1: build a case for their support? 374 00:20:49,790 --> 00:20:53,240 S4: Israel is a different situation in its international support than 375 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,060 S4: other nations of the world, for a number of reasons. 376 00:20:56,090 --> 00:20:59,000 S4: First of all, Israel is kind of an outpost for 377 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,520 S4: the United States of America in the Middle East. It 378 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,950 S4: gives us a way to be involved in what's happening 379 00:21:03,950 --> 00:21:06,980 S4: in that important region of the world, through a country 380 00:21:06,980 --> 00:21:11,000 S4: that is democratic, the only democratic country in that region. 381 00:21:11,150 --> 00:21:15,500 S4: I think a second reason all Americans should be interested 382 00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:19,790 S4: in this is that Israel has a tremendous positive impact 383 00:21:19,790 --> 00:21:24,140 S4: on our own American economy. We're talking about $50 billion 384 00:21:24,170 --> 00:21:28,550 S4: a year in international trade and tens of thousands. I 385 00:21:28,550 --> 00:21:30,980 S4: can't give an actual calculation. I don't know what it is, 386 00:21:30,980 --> 00:21:33,110 S4: but I know it's at least tens of thousands of 387 00:21:33,109 --> 00:21:35,750 S4: people in the United States of America have their jobs 388 00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:38,869 S4: because of working with Israeli companies. And a lot of 389 00:21:38,869 --> 00:21:43,489 S4: people don't know this, but there are 2500 American companies 390 00:21:43,490 --> 00:21:47,180 S4: that have research and development or other similar kinds of 391 00:21:47,180 --> 00:21:51,229 S4: offices in Israel. So these two nations are intertwined in 392 00:21:51,230 --> 00:21:54,890 S4: a significant way. I would stress, though, this does not 393 00:21:54,890 --> 00:21:57,980 S4: mean that any given American should feel that they have 394 00:21:57,980 --> 00:22:00,800 S4: to put their stamp of approval on every action taken 395 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,010 S4: by the Israeli government. I am a proud American, but 396 00:22:04,010 --> 00:22:06,980 S4: I do not put my stamp of approval on everything 397 00:22:06,980 --> 00:22:10,340 S4: the government in power does. We shouldn't expect that we 398 00:22:10,340 --> 00:22:12,649 S4: have to do that with Israel as well. But to 399 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,550 S4: recognize that our relationship with Israel is unique. This is 400 00:22:16,550 --> 00:22:19,730 S4: not a case of us just flushing billions of dollars 401 00:22:19,730 --> 00:22:22,760 S4: into a hole and having no idea what's ever going 402 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,389 S4: to happen to it. This is actually a legitimate partnership, 403 00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:28,580 S4: and it's important. I think, you know, I know some 404 00:22:28,580 --> 00:22:31,790 S4: people think they say, well, it's America first. And what 405 00:22:31,790 --> 00:22:34,939 S4: they really mean by that is America only. But no 406 00:22:34,940 --> 00:22:37,820 S4: nation in the world has ever been able to survive 407 00:22:37,820 --> 00:22:41,389 S4: and thrive unless it has allies. In fact, if you 408 00:22:41,390 --> 00:22:45,020 S4: look at the major cities that were attacked throughout history. 409 00:22:45,050 --> 00:22:48,560 S4: Victor Davis Hanson discusses this in a recent book. They 410 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:53,180 S4: all failed because they lost their relationships with allies around 411 00:22:53,180 --> 00:22:56,570 S4: them who could come and help them in their time 412 00:22:56,570 --> 00:22:57,350 S4: of need. 413 00:22:57,380 --> 00:22:59,959 S1: So, Jeff, take this home. You know, we're having a 414 00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:03,200 S1: conversation in our home with some Gen Z folks. How 415 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,510 S1: in the world do we steer that dialogue in a 416 00:23:05,510 --> 00:23:09,740 S1: respectful tone that is also full of truth? And, I 417 00:23:09,740 --> 00:23:12,230 S1: don't know, a biblical perspective? How do we do that? 418 00:23:12,260 --> 00:23:15,230 S4: I think the first thing is, John, to ask young 419 00:23:15,230 --> 00:23:18,860 S4: adults to query where their information comes from. I can 420 00:23:18,859 --> 00:23:22,460 S4: just look at a picture of one of the anti-Israel rallies. 421 00:23:22,460 --> 00:23:24,919 S4: I can look at the signs. At the bottom of 422 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,700 S4: the signs is the website for the organization sponsoring the rally. 423 00:23:28,730 --> 00:23:31,669 S4: In many cases, it's has been the Socialist Worker Party. 424 00:23:31,700 --> 00:23:34,010 S4: If you go to their website, you realize they are 425 00:23:34,010 --> 00:23:37,580 S4: hard left Marxists. They're actually communists. Now, this is not 426 00:23:37,580 --> 00:23:41,060 S4: an accusation. They're admitting this. So asking where does that 427 00:23:41,060 --> 00:23:44,270 S4: information come from? What is the motivation of the person 428 00:23:44,270 --> 00:23:47,210 S4: who's giving that information? The second thing, John, is to 429 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,450 S4: give facts. We found that if you would simply give 430 00:23:50,450 --> 00:23:53,270 S4: a fact to a young adult, that it would change 431 00:23:53,270 --> 00:23:56,240 S4: their mind. For instance, we asked a question in one 432 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,160 S4: of our polls, what about the fact that Israel has 433 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,950 S4: greater wealth and military power? Does that make its military 434 00:24:00,980 --> 00:24:05,240 S4: campaign against Hamas unjust? And almost half of young adults said, yes. 435 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,510 S4: But then we asked this. Hamas leaders have become wealthy 436 00:24:08,510 --> 00:24:13,159 S4: by skimming international aid designated for Palestinians. Do such actions 437 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,160 S4: on the part of Hamas leaders make their cause unjust? 438 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:21,410 S4: And 57% said yes and 23% said not sure. So 439 00:24:21,410 --> 00:24:24,590 S4: literally half of them changed their minds just with the 440 00:24:24,590 --> 00:24:28,100 S4: presentation of one simple fact. And then the third thing 441 00:24:28,100 --> 00:24:30,709 S4: is just ask questions. If you aren't sure what the 442 00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:33,530 S4: facts are in the situation, then you can just ask 443 00:24:33,530 --> 00:24:36,710 S4: questions like how did you arrive at that conclusion? How 444 00:24:36,710 --> 00:24:39,710 S4: do you know it's true? I would say, John, the 445 00:24:39,710 --> 00:24:42,800 S4: trickier thing is when young adults feel they don't want 446 00:24:42,830 --> 00:24:45,140 S4: to talk about this at all because they think their 447 00:24:45,140 --> 00:24:48,530 S4: parents might be fascists or whatever, but you can still 448 00:24:48,530 --> 00:24:51,050 S4: address that. You can say, it sounds like we have 449 00:24:51,050 --> 00:24:53,869 S4: a significant disagreement, and I know it might take time 450 00:24:53,869 --> 00:24:56,869 S4: to work through, but I believe if we talk about it, 451 00:24:56,900 --> 00:24:59,210 S4: we can come closer to the truth. How do you 452 00:24:59,210 --> 00:25:02,540 S4: see it? Questions like that can open up the conversation 453 00:25:02,540 --> 00:25:03,890 S4: rather than shut it down. 454 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:04,430 S5: Yeah. 455 00:25:04,700 --> 00:25:08,420 S1: Jeff, we briefly touched on your book, Should Christians support Israel? 456 00:25:08,420 --> 00:25:10,760 S1: You've got a special offer. What is that offer? 457 00:25:10,790 --> 00:25:13,610 S4: I've written a book called Should Christians Support Israel that 458 00:25:13,609 --> 00:25:17,450 S4: I'm making available to anyone who's listening to this program 459 00:25:17,450 --> 00:25:21,920 S4: for free? Just go to summit.org/israel. It's a short book, 460 00:25:21,950 --> 00:25:25,250 S4: just 120 pages, but it has 200 pieces of documentation 461 00:25:25,250 --> 00:25:27,139 S4: on all the things we've just talked about. 462 00:25:27,140 --> 00:25:30,030 S1: Well, that sounds good again, that website one more time Jeff. 463 00:25:30,030 --> 00:25:32,609 S4: Summit.org/israel. 464 00:25:32,609 --> 00:25:34,380 S1: And we'll put a link to that at our website. 465 00:25:34,410 --> 00:25:39,000 S1: The land and the book.org. Well lots to think about 466 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,510 S1: and we sure appreciate your perspectives, Jeff. Doctor Jeff Myers 467 00:25:42,510 --> 00:25:45,270 S1: of Summit Ministries joining us today on the land and 468 00:25:45,270 --> 00:25:48,690 S1: the book. Look forward to another conversation. Jeff. Thank you John. 469 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,359 S1: Coming up, I'm looking forward to another great segment of 470 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,240 S1: Bible questions. Maybe one of them is yours here on 471 00:25:54,240 --> 00:26:08,760 S1: the land and the book. Welcome back to segment three 472 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,760 S1: of The land and the book, which means it's time 473 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,850 S1: for this week's look at your Bible questions. Hi, I'm 474 00:26:14,850 --> 00:26:17,310 S1: John Geiger with our host, Charlie Dyer, and we've got 475 00:26:17,310 --> 00:26:19,409 S1: some great news we want to share with you somebody 476 00:26:19,410 --> 00:26:22,710 S1: you've got to meet first, though, ask yourself, what does 477 00:26:22,710 --> 00:26:26,990 S1: Passover mean for us as believers in Jesus. Some might 478 00:26:26,990 --> 00:26:29,030 S1: remember the story from the book of Exodus, but there's 479 00:26:29,030 --> 00:26:31,699 S1: so much more to it. Did you know that the 480 00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:35,210 S1: Last Supper was actually a Passover meal? Not only did 481 00:26:35,210 --> 00:26:39,170 S1: Jesus and his disciples celebrate Passover, it also foreshadowed his 482 00:26:39,170 --> 00:26:41,300 S1: death on the cross for our redemption. 483 00:26:41,330 --> 00:26:44,990 S2: Jewish people have been keeping the Passover for thousands of years. 484 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,320 S2: Understanding the history and importance of this holiday will help 485 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,320 S2: you better connect with your Jewish friends and neighbors. And 486 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,080 S2: what better way is there to learn about Passover than 487 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:59,090 S2: to experience a Passover Seder yourself? If you've never celebrated Passover? 488 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,699 S2: Our friends at Life in Messiah would love to partner 489 00:27:01,700 --> 00:27:05,360 S2: with you in hosting a Seder experience. Every year, their 490 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,500 S2: staff engage churches and small groups in an interactive Messiah 491 00:27:09,500 --> 00:27:13,610 S2: in the Passover Seder, allowing participants to taste and see 492 00:27:13,609 --> 00:27:17,330 S2: the redemption story. If you're interested in having someone come 493 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,420 S2: lead a Seder in your area, visit Life and Messiah 494 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,939 S2: org and click on the Moody Radio button there to 495 00:27:22,970 --> 00:27:26,540 S2: learn more. That's life in Messiah. Org. 496 00:27:26,780 --> 00:27:28,880 S1: Well, Charlie, we've got an introduction we want to make, 497 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,060 S1: but first, help us understand the background on what's happening 498 00:27:32,060 --> 00:27:34,730 S1: with this segment of the land and the book. Segment three. 499 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,100 S2: Yeah, John, we've been working together on land in the 500 00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:39,890 S2: book for over 14 years, and I've loved every minute 501 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,590 S2: of it. Now, along the way, we've made tweaks and changes, 502 00:27:42,590 --> 00:27:45,020 S2: which I think have helped make the program even better, 503 00:27:45,020 --> 00:27:48,109 S2: like having you find and interview all our guests. You 504 00:27:48,140 --> 00:27:51,290 S2: made that segment really shine, and I'm excited to announce 505 00:27:51,290 --> 00:27:54,080 S2: another change we're making at the start of this new year. 506 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,720 S2: For most of our time on the air, though not all, 507 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,449 S2: I've been answering the Bible questions people write in with. 508 00:27:59,450 --> 00:28:02,810 S2: But starting today, we're inviting in another friend and colleague 509 00:28:02,810 --> 00:28:05,600 S2: to host this segment. I need to add right now, 510 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,109 S2: I'm not leaving the program. I'll still be here each week. Okay, 511 00:28:09,140 --> 00:28:10,879 S2: but I want to focus on the current events at 512 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,180 S2: the beginning of the program and the devotional at the end. 513 00:28:14,180 --> 00:28:16,220 S2: With everything going on in the Middle East, I want 514 00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:19,550 S2: to spend as much time as possible focusing on the land. 515 00:28:19,580 --> 00:28:22,550 S2: That's the first segment and the book, our devotional at 516 00:28:22,550 --> 00:28:25,720 S2: the end. And that still means I'll be here every week. 517 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,359 S1: Well, we're relieved for that, Charlie, thank you for clarifying. 518 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,420 S1: So you're not leaving with that as important background, though, 519 00:28:31,450 --> 00:28:35,080 S1: let's meet the guy who will be handling our listener questions. Charlie, 520 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,050 S1: he's no stranger to you because he joined the faculty 521 00:28:38,050 --> 00:28:40,810 S1: when you were still provost of Moody Bible Institute. 522 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,540 S2: Yeah. That's true. I love Jerry Peterman, but let me 523 00:28:43,540 --> 00:28:45,970 S2: get academic here and do a proper introduction. All right. 524 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,050 S2: Doctor Gerald Peterman has been on Moody's faculty since 2002. 525 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,110 S2: He's a Bible professor at Moody Bible Institute and the 526 00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:56,530 S2: director of the Biblical and Theological Studies program at Moody 527 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,130 S2: Theological Seminary. Before coming to Moody, he taught at Palm 528 00:29:00,130 --> 00:29:03,490 S2: Beach Atlantic College in West Palm Beach, Florida, spent four 529 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,820 S2: and a half years doing church planting in Florida and Iowa, 530 00:29:06,820 --> 00:29:09,730 S2: and also served eight years in the Air National Guard 531 00:29:09,730 --> 00:29:10,750 S2: as a chaplain. 532 00:29:10,750 --> 00:29:14,290 S1: Doctor Peterman has written Joy and Tears The Emotional Life 533 00:29:14,290 --> 00:29:18,400 S1: of the Christian also Between Pain and Grace A Biblical 534 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,490 S1: Theology of Suffering, co-authored with Andrew Schmutzer. 535 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,530 S2: You know, my best memory of Jerry is a trip 536 00:29:23,530 --> 00:29:25,630 S2: we were on together in Israel. But I can tell 537 00:29:25,630 --> 00:29:29,290 S2: you I appreciate his kindness, his humor, and his ability 538 00:29:29,290 --> 00:29:30,700 S2: to communicate God's Word. 539 00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:32,380 S1: So with that said, we got to say welcome to 540 00:29:32,410 --> 00:29:33,340 S1: Jerry Peterman. 541 00:29:33,370 --> 00:29:35,680 S6: Well thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. I 542 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,360 S6: don't deserve that introduction. 543 00:29:37,900 --> 00:29:40,750 S2: We're waiting to see you walk on water, Jerry. But okay. 544 00:29:41,230 --> 00:29:42,040 S6: Me too. 545 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,070 S1: So, you know, we haven't talked about yet is your family. 546 00:29:45,070 --> 00:29:46,209 S1: Tell us about your family. 547 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,120 S6: Oh, wow. I've been married to my delightful wife, Margie, 548 00:29:49,150 --> 00:29:52,360 S6: for a little over 40 years. Uh, we were married 549 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,500 S6: in 1984. I've got two daughters who are beautiful and intelligent, 550 00:29:56,530 --> 00:30:00,430 S6: which means, obviously, they take after their mother. And from 551 00:30:00,430 --> 00:30:05,320 S6: our oldest daughter, Bethany, we have our two granddaughters who 552 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:10,060 S6: are Victoria and Season. They live in California, sadly, with 553 00:30:10,060 --> 00:30:12,370 S6: their mom and dad. So yeah, there are a lot 554 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,290 S6: of fun. I got I got to spend some time 555 00:30:14,290 --> 00:30:15,430 S6: with them two weeks ago. 556 00:30:15,460 --> 00:30:19,300 S1: Oh that's neat. Now, I understand that you like bicycling, reading, 557 00:30:19,300 --> 00:30:23,440 S1: home improvement, and any opportunity to show hospitality. I bet 558 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,780 S1: you've got some hospitality stories in the background. 559 00:30:25,870 --> 00:30:28,270 S6: Oh, well, thanks be to God. Um, Marge and I 560 00:30:28,300 --> 00:30:30,940 S6: have been able to have moody students over twice a year, 561 00:30:30,940 --> 00:30:33,580 S6: almost every year. So how many students have come through 562 00:30:33,580 --> 00:30:36,700 S6: our house? Hundreds. Huh. So it's so much fun to 563 00:30:36,730 --> 00:30:38,560 S6: just hang out with them on the deck and, you know, 564 00:30:38,590 --> 00:30:42,010 S6: drink some coffee and have a hamburger and just talk really, 565 00:30:42,010 --> 00:30:42,880 S6: really good time. 566 00:30:42,910 --> 00:30:45,220 S2: Well, I hope all your listeners can see why we're 567 00:30:45,220 --> 00:30:48,130 S2: so enthused about having Jerry Peterman join the team. So 568 00:30:48,130 --> 00:30:50,230 S2: let me step back, John, and just have you guys 569 00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:52,870 S2: dig into today's listener questions. We'll start with. 570 00:30:52,870 --> 00:30:55,660 S1: A question from Jackie who takes us to revelation chapter 571 00:30:55,660 --> 00:30:59,140 S1: two verse 17. Why do we receive a name that 572 00:30:59,140 --> 00:31:01,870 S1: no one knows except the one who receives it? What's 573 00:31:01,870 --> 00:31:03,940 S1: the point of having a name that nobody knows? 574 00:31:03,970 --> 00:31:07,630 S6: I appreciate Jackie's question. I mean, what's the point? If 575 00:31:07,630 --> 00:31:10,360 S6: we go back to Scripture, Old Testament, New Testament, we 576 00:31:10,390 --> 00:31:13,990 S6: find out that in a name you discern the character 577 00:31:13,990 --> 00:31:17,620 S6: of the individual in a name, you discern the authority 578 00:31:17,620 --> 00:31:21,280 S6: of the individual. So when talking to Moses, our Lord says, 579 00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:24,580 S6: Exodus 34, I will proclaim my name. And then what 580 00:31:24,580 --> 00:31:27,640 S6: does he say? I'm I'm patient. I'm long suffering. I'm 581 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,160 S6: slow to anger. I'm rich in kindness. So this is 582 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:34,990 S6: about his character. So Jesus will give us this white stone. 583 00:31:35,020 --> 00:31:38,530 S6: It's something precious just for us, with a secret between 584 00:31:38,530 --> 00:31:41,440 S6: him and us, really, where he affirms us. 585 00:31:41,470 --> 00:31:43,210 S1: Custom made. It's like custom bespoke. 586 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,910 S7: Yeah. It's like it's just. It's just for me. 587 00:31:46,030 --> 00:31:48,850 S6: And so I think that name is a reflection of 588 00:31:48,850 --> 00:31:52,600 S6: his appreciation for us and the intimacy between us. Hey, 589 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,490 S6: this is this is just for you and me. I'm 590 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,810 S6: talking about who you are as my disciple. And I 591 00:31:58,810 --> 00:32:02,620 S6: think that name also is kind of reflects the authority 592 00:32:02,650 --> 00:32:06,250 S6: we have under Christ to work on his behalf, to 593 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,700 S6: act in his name. So I think it's both a 594 00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:13,210 S6: symbol of our relationship, as well as an indication of 595 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,720 S6: the authority we have through Christ. Because can you believe it? 596 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,250 S6: That is, Jesus works through us to spread his gospel. 597 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,120 S6: Jesus works through us to bring people forgiveness. And so 598 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,760 S6: that's that's part of the authority we have by being 599 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,350 S6: given this name from Christ. 600 00:32:29,380 --> 00:32:32,680 S1: Another revelation question, this one in chapter three, verse 14, 601 00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:36,340 S1: where Jesus is referred to as the Amen. If Amen 602 00:32:36,340 --> 00:32:39,430 S1: means I agree with God, this listener wants to know 603 00:32:39,460 --> 00:32:42,370 S1: is this name saying Jesus agrees with God that he 604 00:32:42,370 --> 00:32:44,770 S1: obeys God or that he is God? 605 00:32:45,250 --> 00:32:49,510 S6: I really appreciate that too. It's true. Amen. Has a 606 00:32:49,510 --> 00:32:52,720 S6: sense of I affirm that. I agree with that. So 607 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,040 S6: what is going on when our Lord is called the Amen? 608 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:01,480 S6: That is through Jesus our Lord. God accomplishes his plan. 609 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:07,090 S6: That is all the promises of God are yes, in Jesus. 610 00:33:07,090 --> 00:33:09,760 S6: And so that's what an amen is. It's a yes. 611 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:14,140 S6: So Jesus the son is the one who affirms and 612 00:33:14,170 --> 00:33:17,920 S6: is affirmed by God with this. Amen. Would it go 613 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,760 S6: to this passage where the question is he's called the Amen. 614 00:33:21,790 --> 00:33:26,500 S6: He's called the faithful true witness. He's called the ruler 615 00:33:26,500 --> 00:33:30,820 S6: of God's creation. That is, the Lord is working through 616 00:33:30,850 --> 00:33:34,360 S6: him and accomplishing his purposes, giving the yes to all 617 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:35,620 S6: the promises of God. 618 00:33:35,650 --> 00:33:38,710 S1: You're listening to the land and the book doctor Jerry Peterman, 619 00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:41,080 S1: answering your questions. We'll share how you can get yours 620 00:33:41,110 --> 00:33:44,620 S1: to him later in the broadcast. Uh, this listener wants 621 00:33:44,620 --> 00:33:47,470 S1: to know, is there a book or reference that has 622 00:33:47,470 --> 00:33:51,610 S1: writings or biographies of the first Christians after the apostles 623 00:33:51,610 --> 00:33:54,940 S1: like Irenaeus and Polycarp and so on? I was never 624 00:33:54,940 --> 00:33:56,770 S1: taught church history growing up, but I'd like to learn 625 00:33:56,770 --> 00:33:58,600 S1: more about these early church leaders. 626 00:33:58,630 --> 00:34:01,330 S6: Yes, and that's a wonderful place for us to go 627 00:34:01,330 --> 00:34:03,490 S6: to learn about the lives of saints from the past. 628 00:34:03,490 --> 00:34:06,340 S6: So there are a couple of places to go. One 629 00:34:06,340 --> 00:34:11,259 S6: title is called The Apostolic Fathers in English by Rick Brannon, 630 00:34:11,260 --> 00:34:15,460 S6: Lexham Press. All right. Apostolic Fathers in English, Rick Brannon, 631 00:34:15,460 --> 00:34:18,219 S6: Lexham press. And if you have Logos Bible software, this 632 00:34:18,219 --> 00:34:20,290 S6: book is already going to be in there. Another one 633 00:34:20,290 --> 00:34:23,140 S6: I can highly recommend getting to know the Church Fathers 634 00:34:23,140 --> 00:34:27,610 S6: and Evangelical Introduction by Brian Litfin. Now, Brian Litfin taught 635 00:34:27,610 --> 00:34:29,890 S6: for many years at Moody. He's a wonderful guy, by 636 00:34:29,890 --> 00:34:32,650 S6: the way. I really appreciate his work. And that book 637 00:34:32,650 --> 00:34:35,140 S6: is also available on Kindle and on paperback. 638 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,560 S1: Paul asks on Sunday, a woman wanted to know the 639 00:34:38,590 --> 00:34:41,770 S1: ancestry of the Palestinian people, as well as the history 640 00:34:41,770 --> 00:34:45,280 S1: of the Jewish Palestinian conflict. Do you have any suggestions? 641 00:34:45,310 --> 00:34:48,669 S6: Oh, yes. This is this is something that Charlie Dyer 642 00:34:48,700 --> 00:34:51,610 S6: knows a lot about. So I'm going to recommend you 643 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,520 S6: connect with him. Here's how you can do it. Charlie 644 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,730 S6: talked about this subject on this program back in October, 645 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,290 S6: October 5th, and that program is still available on the 646 00:35:02,290 --> 00:35:05,770 S6: land and the book.org. So you can just go there, 647 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,259 S6: go under what's on air and look at the tab 648 00:35:08,260 --> 00:35:13,839 S6: for October 5th, 2024. And at the 18 minute 32nd mark, 649 00:35:13,870 --> 00:35:16,440 S6: John and Charlie are talking about this question and you'll 650 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,020 S6: get some answers there. Another place You Can Go is 651 00:35:19,020 --> 00:35:23,250 S6: Charlie's recently released book by Moody Press in October of 652 00:35:23,250 --> 00:35:27,300 S6: this year called Who Owns the Land? And you'll get 653 00:35:27,300 --> 00:35:29,430 S6: a lot more than just the answer to this question 654 00:35:29,430 --> 00:35:30,420 S6: from that book. 655 00:35:30,450 --> 00:35:32,460 S1: Okay, check it out at The Land and the book. 656 00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:36,299 S1: Org and again, Charlie's book is titled Who Owns the Land? 657 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,150 S1: Chris says, I have a question about how many temples 658 00:35:39,150 --> 00:35:42,779 S1: have been in Jerusalem. Solomon built the first. The second 659 00:35:42,780 --> 00:35:45,779 S1: was built in Nehemiah and Ezra's time, and the third 660 00:35:45,780 --> 00:35:48,870 S1: will be built sometime in the future. So my question is, 661 00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:51,630 S1: in Jesus day, why was it called Herod's Temple? Did 662 00:35:51,630 --> 00:35:55,230 S1: he rebuild, remodel, or just claim the Second Temple is his? 663 00:35:55,260 --> 00:35:57,989 S6: Great. We've got two questions here. First question. There has 664 00:35:57,989 --> 00:36:01,859 S6: been two temples, one under Solomon, destroyed in 586 BC, 665 00:36:01,980 --> 00:36:06,870 S6: and another rebuilt under Zerubbabel with Haggai and Zechariah's input. 666 00:36:07,020 --> 00:36:10,440 S6: That was the middle of the sixth century, and that 667 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:15,750 S6: Second temple was kind of refurbished by Herod, significantly refurbished 668 00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:18,750 S6: by Herod, which is why it's called Herod's Temple. So 669 00:36:18,750 --> 00:36:21,720 S6: Herod's temple is the second temple. 670 00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:24,810 S1: All right, Chris, I hope that clears things up for you. 671 00:36:24,810 --> 00:36:26,850 S1: And as you listen, if you've got a question you'd 672 00:36:26,850 --> 00:36:29,100 S1: like to send to us, you need to know we'd 673 00:36:29,100 --> 00:36:32,279 S1: welcome that any old time. Just email us at The 674 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:39,420 S1: Land and the book@moody.edu. That's the land and the book@moody.edu. Now, 675 00:36:39,420 --> 00:36:42,390 S1: as we move into this new year, two great ideas 676 00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:45,210 S1: for a great start. First, connect with the station. Would 677 00:36:45,210 --> 00:36:48,060 S1: you and thank them for airing the land and the book? 678 00:36:48,060 --> 00:36:51,089 S1: So many other programs are vying for their attention, so 679 00:36:51,090 --> 00:36:54,480 S1: thank them for carrying the land and the book. Secondly, 680 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,910 S1: would you email us and share how God has used 681 00:36:56,910 --> 00:36:59,219 S1: the land and the book in your life? I'd love 682 00:36:59,219 --> 00:37:03,180 S1: to hear from you at the land and the book@moody.edu. 683 00:37:03,210 --> 00:37:08,430 S1: That's the land and the book at Moody Edu Charlie's devotional. Next. 684 00:37:21,060 --> 00:37:23,040 S1: It's an image that is a bit faded in a 685 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,430 S1: culture that has dismissed God. The notion of a judge 686 00:37:26,430 --> 00:37:29,850 S1: and people standing before him on Judgment Day. Welcome back 687 00:37:29,850 --> 00:37:33,180 S1: to the land and the book. I'm John Gager. Charlie, 688 00:37:33,180 --> 00:37:35,610 S1: the judgment seat of Christ at the focus of your devotional, 689 00:37:35,610 --> 00:37:36,299 S1: is that correct? 690 00:37:36,330 --> 00:37:37,589 S2: That is correct, John. 691 00:37:37,620 --> 00:37:40,469 S1: Sounds like a sober moment to me. We'll find out, though, 692 00:37:40,469 --> 00:37:42,990 S1: but not until we hear this Holy Land experience. I 693 00:37:42,989 --> 00:37:44,910 S1: love these testimonies. Check this out. 694 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,899 S8: Hi, my name is Marty from mentor, Ohio. Our Holy 695 00:37:52,020 --> 00:37:55,860 S8: Land experience is just incredible. The thing that stands out 696 00:37:55,860 --> 00:37:58,950 S8: the most in my mind is the Sea of Galilee, 697 00:37:58,950 --> 00:38:01,500 S8: the boat right on the Sea of Galilee. It was 698 00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:05,819 S8: something that you just have to experience for yourself. The sights, 699 00:38:05,820 --> 00:38:08,700 S8: the smells, the calmness of the sea as it started 700 00:38:08,730 --> 00:38:11,880 S8: out as a very rough day. The voice of our 701 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:16,080 S8: master saying be still. Everything about it. This tour is 702 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,380 S8: just first class. You cannot get anything better than this. 703 00:38:19,380 --> 00:38:24,030 S8: I know I was apprehensive personally about travel. I've watched 704 00:38:24,030 --> 00:38:27,120 S8: that totally away. I this whole ten days that we've 705 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,620 S8: been here seems like maybe one. You just cannot imagine 706 00:38:31,620 --> 00:38:33,810 S8: how wonderful this place is. 707 00:38:35,550 --> 00:38:38,880 S1: All right, we're headed for Second Corinthians chapter five and Charlie, 708 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,920 S1: the judgment seat of Christ. What do we need to 709 00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:42,149 S1: know a lot? 710 00:38:42,180 --> 00:38:46,230 S2: John, I love Corinth, probably for all the wrong reasons. 711 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,260 S2: I remember driving from Athens to Corinth while a major 712 00:38:49,260 --> 00:38:53,580 S2: wildfire burned along the roadway. I remember a mediterranean cruise 713 00:38:53,610 --> 00:38:57,270 S2: aboard a three masted schooner and docking just outside the 714 00:38:57,270 --> 00:39:00,840 S2: Corinthian Canal before heading to shore on an inflatable high 715 00:39:00,870 --> 00:39:04,950 S2: speed zodiac. And I remember going exploring an ancient Corinth 716 00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:08,760 S2: and using an article from Biblical Archaeology Review to search 717 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,270 S2: for the theater and the nearby inscription to Erastus, a 718 00:39:12,270 --> 00:39:15,900 S2: believer who served as city treasurer in Corinth long before 719 00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:19,529 S2: that inscription became accessible to most visitors. Oh, and the 720 00:39:19,530 --> 00:39:22,410 S2: site itself. I loved it, though I know it's something 721 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,810 S2: of a disappointment to visitors who are expecting it to 722 00:39:24,810 --> 00:39:28,680 S2: look like Ephesus or Laodicea or Beit She'an in Israel, 723 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,910 S2: or Jerash in Jordan. The excavations are rather minimal, but 724 00:39:32,910 --> 00:39:35,220 S2: the history of the site more than makes up for 725 00:39:35,219 --> 00:39:39,060 S2: the relative compactness of the actual area. Open to visitors. 726 00:39:39,060 --> 00:39:42,450 S2: To really appreciate the site, one needs to reread the 727 00:39:42,450 --> 00:39:45,330 S2: historical events that took place there in the book of acts, 728 00:39:45,330 --> 00:39:49,110 S2: and then read first and second Corinthians, Paul's two extended 729 00:39:49,110 --> 00:39:51,839 S2: letters to the church. And it doesn't hurt also to 730 00:39:51,870 --> 00:39:55,470 S2: study the extrabiblical history of the site itself. You see, 731 00:39:55,469 --> 00:40:00,120 S2: the New Testament city of Corinth represented commerce and corruption. 732 00:40:00,150 --> 00:40:03,390 S2: The city grew up on a narrow isthmus linking central 733 00:40:03,390 --> 00:40:08,460 S2: Greece with Greece's larger, finger shaped southern peninsula, the Peloponnesus. 734 00:40:08,460 --> 00:40:13,170 S2: Because of its location, Corinth controlled strategic trade routes through Greece. 735 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,760 S2: Smaller ships, including naval vessels, were literally wheeled just over 736 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,020 S2: four miles across a paved trackway. Larger ships loaded with 737 00:40:22,020 --> 00:40:25,860 S2: their cargo, which was then transported across the narrow isthmus, 738 00:40:25,890 --> 00:40:29,010 S2: could be loaded onto another vessel on the other side. 739 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,469 S2: The journey from one side of the isthmus to the 740 00:40:31,469 --> 00:40:34,950 S2: other would have taken about three hours, bypassing a much 741 00:40:34,950 --> 00:40:40,050 S2: longer and more hazardous journey around the entire peninsula. Travelers 742 00:40:40,050 --> 00:40:43,230 S2: far from home and family, sailors with money to spend, 743 00:40:43,230 --> 00:40:47,580 S2: and a bustling economy made Corinth a cosmopolitan market with 744 00:40:47,580 --> 00:40:51,029 S2: corrupt morals. Jutting up just south of the city is 745 00:40:51,030 --> 00:40:55,290 S2: a rocky mountain called the Acrocorinth, that dominates the landscape 746 00:40:55,290 --> 00:40:58,770 S2: in ancient times. A temple to Aphrodite, the goddess of love, 747 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,339 S2: stood on its crest. The Greek historian Strabo said the 748 00:41:02,340 --> 00:41:07,000 S2: temple had 1000 courtesans, that is, temple prostitutes Institutes serving 749 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,180 S2: those who came to, quote, worship. The degree to which 750 00:41:10,180 --> 00:41:12,940 S2: Corinth was given over to immorality is seen in the 751 00:41:12,940 --> 00:41:17,680 S2: coining of the word Corinthian, literally two Corinthians, which meant 752 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:22,330 S2: to practice immorality, and Corinthian girl, which Plato used as 753 00:41:22,330 --> 00:41:25,480 S2: a euphemism for a prostitute. In the heart of Corinth 754 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,689 S2: was the agora, or marketplace for the city. This was 755 00:41:28,690 --> 00:41:31,660 S2: more than just a local farmer's market. The abundance of 756 00:41:31,660 --> 00:41:35,350 S2: international trade made the Agora of Corinth a center for 757 00:41:35,350 --> 00:41:38,770 S2: commerce and a hive of activity. The northern and western 758 00:41:38,770 --> 00:41:42,100 S2: sides of the agora were lined with shops and roadways, 759 00:41:42,100 --> 00:41:45,160 S2: extended both east and west from the agora to the 760 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,480 S2: nearby ports. In the center of Corinth Marketplace stood the bema, 761 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,470 S2: or speaker's platform. The local magistrate would sit at this 762 00:41:53,469 --> 00:41:58,270 S2: location to judge administrative matters. In acts 18, the Bema 763 00:41:58,270 --> 00:42:01,600 S2: played a pivotal role in Paul's ministry in Corinth. Paul's 764 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,900 S2: enemies made a united attack on Paul and brought him 765 00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:08,469 S2: into court. In the original wording of the account, Luke 766 00:42:08,469 --> 00:42:12,190 S2: says they literally brought Paul up to the bema. The 767 00:42:12,219 --> 00:42:14,950 S2: judge in Corinth at the time was Gallio, the brother 768 00:42:14,950 --> 00:42:19,300 S2: of Seneca, who was Emperor Nero's tutor. Paul's opponents thought 769 00:42:19,300 --> 00:42:21,670 S2: they would make trouble for him by accusing Paul of 770 00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:25,899 S2: promoting a religion not recognized by Rome. Paul's enemies said 771 00:42:25,900 --> 00:42:28,900 S2: he was persuading the people to worship God in ways 772 00:42:28,900 --> 00:42:33,219 S2: contrary to the law. The charges, if proven, were serious, 773 00:42:33,219 --> 00:42:36,790 S2: but Gallio saw through the ruse before Paul could even 774 00:42:36,790 --> 00:42:41,500 S2: answer his accusers. Gallio rejected the very basis for their accusation. 775 00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:44,350 S2: I will not be a judge of such things, he said. 776 00:42:44,380 --> 00:42:48,339 S2: He then had them ejected from the court. Literally, Luke says, 777 00:42:48,340 --> 00:42:51,640 S2: they were driven away from the bema. This seat of 778 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,270 S2: administrative justice was a spot known to everyone in Corinth. 779 00:42:55,270 --> 00:42:58,390 S2: And about five years after the incident in acts 18, 780 00:42:58,390 --> 00:43:01,719 S2: Paul used the imagery of the bema to illustrate God's 781 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,640 S2: seat of justice, before which all believers will one day appear. 782 00:43:05,670 --> 00:43:08,550 S2: Paul wrote at least three letters to the church in Corinth, 783 00:43:08,580 --> 00:43:11,489 S2: two of which are included in the Bible. In both 784 00:43:11,489 --> 00:43:15,360 S2: of these, Paul had to deal with spiritual laxness, interpersonal conflicts, 785 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:19,140 S2: and moral lapses in the church. The believers in Corinth 786 00:43:19,140 --> 00:43:21,990 S2: knew God, but they kept slipping back into the moral 787 00:43:21,989 --> 00:43:26,250 S2: cesspool of their society. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to live 788 00:43:26,250 --> 00:43:29,880 S2: in light of eternity. In Second Corinthians 510, he reminded 789 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,660 S2: the church that we must all appear before the judgment seat, 790 00:43:33,660 --> 00:43:37,770 S2: literally the bema of Christ, that each 1st May receive 791 00:43:37,770 --> 00:43:40,319 S2: what is due him for the things done while in 792 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,069 S2: the body, whether good or bad. The people of Corinth 793 00:43:44,070 --> 00:43:46,290 S2: knew what it was like to appear before the Bema 794 00:43:46,290 --> 00:43:50,489 S2: Seat in Corinth. How infinitely more significant it will be 795 00:43:50,489 --> 00:43:53,700 S2: to appear before the Lord Jesus Christ as he sits 796 00:43:53,700 --> 00:43:58,110 S2: in judgment to evaluate our works as believers. Now, in 797 00:43:58,110 --> 00:44:00,630 S2: this passage, Paul is not teaching that believers can lose 798 00:44:00,630 --> 00:44:03,390 S2: their salvation, or that we somehow need to do good 799 00:44:03,390 --> 00:44:06,330 S2: works to make it to heaven. Rather, he's referring to 800 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,890 S2: the eternal rewards believers will gain or forfeit based on 801 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,850 S2: their earthly actions. In first Corinthians three, Paul pictured this 802 00:44:14,850 --> 00:44:17,580 S2: as a time when God will test the quality of 803 00:44:17,580 --> 00:44:20,520 S2: each man's work. Any individual who lived a life of 804 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,840 S2: faithfulness and obedience will receive his reward. But if someone 805 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:29,040 S2: lived a life of self-centered disobedience, he will suffer loss. 806 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,219 S2: He himself will be saved, but only as one escaping 807 00:44:32,219 --> 00:44:35,880 S2: through the flames. All true believers in Jesus Christ will 808 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,730 S2: be in heaven, but not everyone in heaven will be 809 00:44:38,730 --> 00:44:42,390 S2: rewarded equally. We're all on a journey through the Agora, 810 00:44:42,420 --> 00:44:45,750 S2: the marketplace of life. During this journey, we rub shoulders 811 00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:49,320 S2: with many others. Pressed together in the throng. We all 812 00:44:49,350 --> 00:44:51,960 S2: gaze at the wares spread out around us, and we 813 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,109 S2: all make choices on where best to invest our resources, 814 00:44:55,110 --> 00:45:00,210 S2: our time, our talents, our treasures. But every decision has consequences, 815 00:45:00,210 --> 00:45:04,670 S2: and someday we'll receive our summons to appear before God's bema. 816 00:45:04,700 --> 00:45:07,819 S2: Jesus will be seated on the judgment seat, and with 817 00:45:07,820 --> 00:45:12,200 S2: his piercing gaze, he'll sift through our actions and our motives. 818 00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:17,900 S2: Good or bad, reward or rebuke, honor or dishonor. Well, 819 00:45:17,900 --> 00:45:19,400 S2: as we get ready to head to the bus for 820 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,160 S2: our drive back to Athens, what can we take with 821 00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,129 S2: us from our visit here in Corinth and our time 822 00:45:25,130 --> 00:45:28,160 S2: standing in front of that raised Bema Seat platform that 823 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,759 S2: seems to dominate the area? Well, how about this? Paul 824 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,360 S2: used that platform as an illustration, a reminder that a 825 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:39,980 S2: far greater judgment seat in heaven awaits our arrival. And 826 00:45:39,980 --> 00:45:42,740 S2: now is the time to prepare. We all need to 827 00:45:42,770 --> 00:45:46,220 S2: weigh the eternal pros and cons of our actions before 828 00:45:46,219 --> 00:45:49,250 S2: we make decisions. The Bema Seat of Corinth stands as 829 00:45:49,250 --> 00:45:53,209 S2: a reminder that every day choices do have eternal consequences. 830 00:45:53,210 --> 00:45:56,989 S2: We need to constantly remind ourselves of our impending summons 831 00:45:56,989 --> 00:46:00,350 S2: before the Bema Seat of Christ. Pause today and ask 832 00:46:00,350 --> 00:46:03,500 S2: God to help you gain his perspective on this life 833 00:46:03,500 --> 00:46:06,020 S2: and on the life to come. Ask him to help 834 00:46:06,020 --> 00:46:08,180 S2: you lift your eyes heavenward so that you can look 835 00:46:08,180 --> 00:46:11,870 S2: beyond the glittering baubles being offered in the marketplace of life. 836 00:46:11,870 --> 00:46:16,490 S2: To see heaven's Bema Seat standing off in the distance. Wow. 837 00:46:16,489 --> 00:46:20,570 S1: Thank you Charlie. Everyday choices have an eternal consequence. Thanks 838 00:46:20,570 --> 00:46:23,299 S1: for that crystal clear reminder. You can hear the entire 839 00:46:23,300 --> 00:46:25,910 S1: broadcast again by the way, at our website, the land 840 00:46:25,910 --> 00:46:29,960 S1: and the book. Org information about our guests, past programs, 841 00:46:29,989 --> 00:46:35,480 S1: future programs, and more at the land and the books.org. Well, 842 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,580 S1: it's always a pleasure to have you listening, and we 843 00:46:37,580 --> 00:46:39,710 S1: do hope you'll share us with your friends. Let them 844 00:46:39,710 --> 00:46:41,600 S1: know about the land and the book and how it 845 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,330 S1: helps you. Would you do that? Thanks so much. Our 846 00:46:44,330 --> 00:46:45,860 S1: time is gone, but I want to say thank you 847 00:46:45,860 --> 00:46:48,799 S1: to Dan Anderson, our producer, our host, Charlie Dyer. I'm 848 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,500 S1: John Gager. The land and the book is a production 849 00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:55,040 S1: of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.