S1: You can have your best day. You can have your
S1: worst day, but at the end of it, there's this
S1: sort of soul deep question we can lay our heads
S1: down with and say, am I a good mom? And
S1: that feels sometimes scary to ask out loud. And no
S1: matter who we hear that from, I think somewhere I
S1: recognize I really needed to hear that from the author
S1: of Goodness himself.
S2: Welcome to Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Today,
S2: on this Mother's Day weekend, Holly and I talks about
S2: all the expectations of motherhood, the pressure to look good
S2: and be the perfect mom. But what is a good mom?
S2: And why does it seem like the lives of others
S2: are always shinier and easier than yours?
S3: Holly is the author of a featured resource today at
S3: Building Relationships. Here's the title. You are still a good mom.
S3: Motherhood surrendered to the one who never fails, even when
S3: you feel you have. You can find out more at
S3: Building Relationships. And Gary, it seems like there is an
S3: epidemic of pressure and stress on just about everybody in
S3: the culture. But I think especially on moms.
S4: Well, I think you're right, Chris. And, you know, I'm
S4: thinking also a lot of single moms. I mean, they
S4: really have pressure, but but all moms, because moms love
S4: their children. They want the best for them, you know?
S4: And sometimes mothers put themselves under undue pressure thinking they've
S4: got to produce a perfect child. I'm excited about our
S4: conversation today, and I think this book is going to
S4: be a great help to mothers.
S3: Well, let's meet Hallie Dye. She's an author, host of
S3: the Saltworks podcast. She's a wife of 13 years to
S3: her husband, Andrew, mom to three children, lives in Monroe, Louisiana.
S3: And the featured resource at Building Relationships is that book,
S3: You're Still a Good Mom. Go to Building relationships.
S4: Well, Hayley, welcome to Building Relationships.
S1: Thank you so much for having me. I am so
S1: honored to be here with both of you. And I
S1: just really appreciate it.
S4: Well, tell us about your life and family. Who is Hayley? Die.
S1: Hayley, die is a follower of Jesus. She is a
S1: wife to my high school sweetheart. Actually, he's my very
S1: best friend. As cheesy as that might sound. It's true.
S1: I'm a mom of three kids. Boy girl boy. They are,
S1: from start to finish, three and a half years apart.
S1: And so it's been a busy few years. My oldest
S1: is almost ten now, so in a slightly different stage
S1: of life than when I was writing the book. I
S1: have a podcast. I live in a somewhat small town,
S1: love to travel though, love to read, like to read
S1: a lot of fiction. And that's kind of me in
S1: a nutshell.
S4: All right, well, sounds like many, many other mothers out there.
S1: Yes, yes.
S4: Every book has a story behind it. What's the story of?
S4: You're still a good mom.
S1: You know, I at the beginning of 2020, before the
S1: world closed down, there was a kind of a shift
S1: where I've always needed to write or be able to
S1: talk or pray out loud to kind of externally process things.
S1: But there was a turning point somewhere in there where
S1: I began to think, like, I would really like to
S1: take writing more seriously. I don't think I ever had
S1: in my mind writing a book necessarily, but just, you know,
S1: I was like, maybe a blog. And, you know, thinking
S1: along those lines. But then shortly after that, the world
S1: did close down. Um, where we live, it was very
S1: much shelter in place, and it was very isolating because
S1: I had a four year old, a two year old
S1: and a one year old. And so it was a lot, um,
S1: not being able to go places and was already a
S1: stay at home mom. But when we couldn't go anywhere,
S1: that role and that time of life just became very
S1: all consuming. Um, and I can remember I don't even
S1: remember everything that happened on this one day, but there
S1: was one particular day that was just really hard. The
S1: needs just felt really endless. I didn't feel like enough.
S1: I had this kind of low simmer feeling of failure
S1: and the background, which honestly, unfortunately, I was pretty used to. Um,
S1: but it it felt overpowering on that day. And at
S1: the end of the day, when the kids were asleep,
S1: I sat down on the edge of my bed and
S1: began to type something into the notes app on my phone.
S1: At the end of that, I kind of had the thought,
S1: you know, this could be a book, which is so
S1: funny because that was like not a whole thought that
S1: I had. But it is. It did actually become the
S1: intro to my book. And and it's been edited many times,
S1: but the, the feel of it was. It's a letter
S1: to a mom that feels very unseen and very. Is
S1: anything that I'm doing amounting to anything? Am I failing?
S1: Am I a good mom? It really just speaks to
S1: what I needed to hear. And so that is how
S1: this book began. Because you can have your best day.
S1: You can have your worst day, but at the end
S1: of it, there's this sort of soul deep question we
S1: can lay our heads down with and say, am I
S1: a good mom? And that feels sometimes scary to ask
S1: out loud. And no matter who we hear that from,
S1: I think somewhere I recognize I really needed to hear
S1: that from the author of Goodness himself.
S4: I think a lot of moms can identify with what
S4: you're saying. What do you hope this book accomplishes for moms?
S1: I hope that at the end of this book that
S1: they feel a freedom and a rest in the gospel truth,
S1: that he is well pleased with them because of the
S1: righteousness of Christ. Because of that foundation that it is
S1: no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.
S1: That we will begin to mother from that place, and
S1: not striving to mother for earning that position. And I
S1: think that changes everything. And while this book is not
S1: a parenting book because it unfortunately can't tell you how
S1: to handle this situation with this child or this transition.
S1: I do feel like as I was writing it, and
S1: as I've learned to live the truths, um, that I
S1: hopefully woven this book pointing back to him that it
S1: has changed the way that I parent because there's a
S1: freedom and a rest and a joy that I'm able
S1: to have when I am no longer striving just to
S1: outrun the feelings of failure.
S4: Yeah, I like the title because it uses the phrase
S4: good mom. Can you define a good mom for us?
S1: That is such an excellent and hard question. And and
S1: that really is what drove the entire book. And I
S1: it's funny, I don't think I realized necessarily that that
S1: was the concrete question I was trying to answer. Um,
S1: I think probably when I started writing it, I was
S1: wanting to know, am I doing enough? Am I enough,
S1: am I worthy? And I think that's a lot of
S1: times the issues. The funny thing is, defining a good
S1: mom is sort of like teaching someone how to abide.
S1: If you say, let me teach you, let me give
S1: you a checklist of how to abide in the Lord.
S1: Step one this. Step two. This. Step three. This. Maybe
S1: some of those steps could be achievable. Attainable. But at
S1: the end of it, even if we could do all
S1: of those steps that someone gave us, would we really
S1: have taught them to abide? And the answer is no.
S1: Because what we've done is we've created a really great
S1: checklist for self-sufficiency, because nothing in there has gone back
S1: to him, has gone back to resting in what he says.
S1: And so the whole idea of defining a good mom.
S1: What I found is diving into scripture, but really learning
S1: to turn back to him daily. I love the words
S1: that John the Baptist says. We bear fruit in keeping
S1: with repentance. The only way that we can bear fruit
S1: is we constantly turn back to him, however many times
S1: every minute, if we need to. That we need.
S4: Yeah. Well, you know, the subtitle is Motherhood surrendered to
S4: the one who never fails.
S1: Mm.
S4: Why do you think moms today feel many of them
S4: that they failed.
S1: I think a lot of that and what the first
S1: part of the book seeks to do is hits on
S1: what are those expectations that you're walking into motherhood with.
S1: Is it that you were always going to cook homemade meals?
S1: Is it that you were never going to do or say,
S1: this is it that you are always going to be
S1: the crafty mom, the fun mom, the strong mom? And
S1: a lot of those things are things we've picked up
S1: along the way. Maybe it was social media, maybe it
S1: was how other people around us mother, or just what
S1: you expected of yourself. I honestly think a lot of
S1: that can be the way that we feel. There's a
S1: lot of messages that we need absolutely, that hit on that.
S1: Motherhood is not always going to look a certain way,
S1: but I think sometimes what can be missing from that
S1: conversation is motherhood is not always going to feel a
S1: certain way either. And there's a whole chapter actually about compassion,
S1: because sometimes we have these feelings of failure that we
S1: didn't just wake up joyful and happy and patient and
S1: glad to do the work set before us. And the
S1: beautiful thing is, the compassion of Christ is that he
S1: meets you there in those places that are hard. He's
S1: he's not disappointed with us whenever we we need him again,
S1: whenever we we need to go back and say, I
S1: need you because I don't have the patience within myself.
S1: And I think there's a lot of there's a lot
S1: of that. There's a lot of us not thinking that
S1: we should be limited or lacking. And so a lot
S1: of the book is, I would say, on the front end,
S1: kind of hitting on what are those expectations. And then
S1: hopefully the second half begins to linger with moms on
S1: some of these subjects of what can that look like?
S4: What does it mean to live surrendered? Because that's a
S4: part of the theme of this book, is surrendering to
S4: the one who never fails.
S1: Mhm. Surrender is such a hard word to use in motherhood,
S1: because so much of what we have to do is
S1: a task. Whether you are a biological mom, an adoptive mom,
S1: Whether you have three kids or one, whether you are
S1: married or you're single, there are a lot of things
S1: that fall to you, whether it's, you know, I mean,
S1: my my husband's very hands on, but there's something about
S1: a mom that carries the weight of a lot of emotional.
S1: Is all of my kids feeling seen? You know, are
S1: they do they have what they need at school? Do
S1: they know how I feel about them? There can be
S1: this weightiness that we carry as moms, no matter how
S1: we enter it or how much help we have, that
S1: just falls to the role of mom. And it can
S1: be hard to say, well, how does it look like
S1: to surrender? And so I think the way that the
S1: book is kind of written is it kind of dives
S1: through different kind of facets of that. So there's a
S1: whole chapter about what does it look like to live
S1: surrendered in rest? What does it look like to live
S1: surrendered in our dreams as moms? Can we even have hobbies?
S1: Can moms have rest? Um, what does it look like
S1: to live under the compassion of Passion of Christ. And
S1: and I think in all of that, and really where
S1: the book ends up in chapter 12 is we with
S1: all things in life. There are many things where you
S1: can you can study enough and you can practice enough
S1: to hopefully gain that that result that you are looking for,
S1: that you were hoping for. But our walk in Christianity
S1: and in our roles as moms, that's not the case
S1: because we can only control the input and that input
S1: is our faithfulness. But that also allows this piece of
S1: rest that while yes, I cannot control the outcome, I
S1: can rest in the one who holds it all. It
S1: doesn't depend on me. And so there's this joy of
S1: I get to partner with the Lord in this role
S1: that he's given me, instead of feeling like it all
S1: depends on me. And so in all of these things,
S1: surrender looks like, what would you have me do here?
S1: Would you have me sign up my kid for this
S1: extracurricular activity. Do you want us to go to public?
S1: Private homeschool? What? What does it look like? Do you
S1: want us to live in this neighborhood or that to
S1: look for him in all of those things?
S4: Well, you know, this book is a very personal project
S4: for you. What was the hardest section of this book
S4: for you to write? Hailey.
S1: There were many chapters that I wrestled with because it
S1: was very much one of those things that I was
S1: having to really learn and come to grips with what
S1: was true in order to write that down. And honestly,
S1: I think that's a great practice for all of us
S1: when we're wrestling with something, is can you write down
S1: the truth? Because if you can't come to the conclusion
S1: of what you believe, it's really hard to live from
S1: that place or live it out. And so it was
S1: a very refining process altogether and a lot of ways.
S1: But the I would say the portion I struggled with
S1: the most that sticks out in my mind is I
S1: actually added chapters five and six later in the game.
S1: And chapter five is all about how we have lack
S1: and limitation, and. And we're supposed to. And it really
S1: pinpoints how mom guilt always camps on what we lack.
S1: It always stares at what we don't have, what we're
S1: not good at. But it really doesn't hit on anything
S1: we've failed at necessarily. It's just this low simmer feeling
S1: that I'm not adding up. And so that chapter was
S1: one in and of itself. Chapter six really went into
S1: what does this mean for me when I have failed?
S1: How do I navigate motherhood when I have failed, or
S1: I have not navigated this relationship with my kids the
S1: way that I would have wanted to, and I had
S1: such a hard time not mixing chapter six into chapter five,
S1: which just told me, for me, and I think probably
S1: for many moms, if my wrestle was any indication that
S1: we tend to want to write failure so much into
S1: the places where we simply cannot have all of the
S1: attributes of God and we weren't meant to.
S4: We know that social media has made many fall into
S4: the comparison trap. Uh, how does a mom overcome that?
S4: That never ending cycle of comparing herself with others?
S1: That is so good. And if you all find out,
S1: let me know. Um, no.
S4: I'm kidding.
S1: I, I one thing that I think happens in social
S1: media is you sit down and you scroll, and most
S1: of the time you don't even mean for that to happen.
S1: You really wanted to read a book, and then you
S1: look up 30 minutes later, that book is sitting next
S1: to you unopened because you're just scrolling through. And we
S1: all have those habits and those moments where we just
S1: kind of check out. But in that 20, 30 minute scroll,
S1: you have seen a mom who made this homemade meal,
S1: a mom who had this really clean, pristine house, a
S1: mom who did this craft with their kids, a mom
S1: who made it to all these events with her kids
S1: and didn't have to miss any of them, even though
S1: she has multiples. I mean, and at the end of
S1: that scroll, your brain has subconsciously, you know, collected what
S1: one person should be when the mom who had the
S1: clean house didn't make the homemade meal, or the mom
S1: that did the crafts wasn't able to go to this
S1: soccer game because she had two conflicting things. There's just
S1: this phenomenon that happens when we look at what's happening
S1: in the whole world and think, we should be all
S1: of those things, when in actuality, no one's able to
S1: do all of that together. And so I think that's
S1: one thing, you know, comparison is, is strange because we
S1: we take ourselves and we set ourselves up next to
S1: someone and in hopes that either we can be better
S1: or that we can like, okay, well, I'm doing enough.
S1: But the honest truth is we have to take all
S1: of those things back to the gospel and say, really?
S1: When I compare myself to the measure of God, I
S1: fall very short. The honest truth is I can't compare
S1: at all. My righteousness is filthy rags. But the beautiful
S1: truth is that he has clothed me in his righteousness.
S1: And when I sit in that, and we sit in
S1: that gratitude of what he has done, there really isn't
S1: room to feel like, well, why can't I be that?
S1: Or why can't I do that? Or why? Why can't
S1: I do better here? Because there's really only room for
S1: that gratitude and it is hard. It's work to go
S1: back to that all the time, but it's always true.
S1: And that gospel truth never runs out.
S4: In the book you talk about how our limitations are
S4: by design. We all have limitations. But what do you
S4: mean by that? That they're by design. And why can
S4: that be so hard for moms.
S1: At the beginning of that chapter? Lack and limitation. My
S1: editor actually felt like that hook was not necessarily the strongest.
S1: And she was right, because it's not this really personal
S1: story like some of the others are. But I found
S1: that if I wrote a personal story, like I said earlier,
S1: I kept trying to add in things that really felt
S1: like failure. And where I kind of landed was this
S1: realization that before I became a mom, I was imperfect,
S1: which I know is shocking, but I was. It's just
S1: that after I became a mom, all of a sudden,
S1: all the things that I liked that I didn't have
S1: that that I wasn't good at, I couldn't give, I
S1: couldn't excel at, for my child. And so all of
S1: a sudden, all the areas that seemed fine for me
S1: to have needs over here. Now, if I take room
S1: for my needs, we we bring a baby home. Well,
S1: now all of a sudden, every time I have a
S1: need or I need to step away, or I need
S1: to rest, or I'm not good at this thing that
S1: all takes away from my child. And there's this sense that, well,
S1: that shouldn't be. So, you know, a good mom should
S1: should always be present. But but actually that that is
S1: the design because we we can't be ever present. We
S1: can't be all knowing. We can't be all powerful. Those
S1: were only ever his. And so we kind of take
S1: a look into Genesis three, because when the fall happens
S1: and Adam and Eve, who God created the stars, he
S1: created the animals, he created the plants and the water
S1: and separated this and all of these things. And it
S1: was good, and it was good and it was good.
S1: And then it gets to man and woman, and all
S1: of a sudden it's very good. And the interesting thing
S1: is that they didn't have clothes, they lacked clothing and covering,
S1: but he still deemed them very good. And then you
S1: get into the fall where they're hiding and they're hiding
S1: out of shame, and there's a lot there, but they
S1: have done wrong. But when they hide and God says,
S1: where are you? Adam says, well, we heard the sound
S1: of you walking in the garden, which. How crazy is that?
S1: We hid because we're naked. And God's first response before
S1: he gets into the consequences or the deception that's unfolded,
S1: the first thing he says is, who told you that
S1: you were naked? And I think so often we come
S1: into contact with those limitations, or we come into realization
S1: with our lack when we fail and when we fall short.
S1: And so we tend to want to connect those two things.
S1: But the truth is, we see in that story that
S1: we've always had need of a God, even before we
S1: had need of a Savior. That the issue really was
S1: not that Eve wanted to be more like God. It
S1: was that she wanted to be more God like. So
S1: the antidote to that is for us to continually turn
S1: back in those places. We don't feel like we have
S1: what we need and go, God, I'm not enough. But
S1: you are. You give me the capacity for the things
S1: that I need. And if I don't have that capacity today.
S1: You didn't need me to, and that's okay.
S4: Yeah. I'm reminded of what Jesus said as recorded in
S4: John 15 verse five when he said, I am the vine,
S4: you're the branches. You stay connected, you bear fruit. And
S4: then he said, without me you can do nothing.
S1: Exactly.
S4: Uh, and we realize that as moms, our dads, you know,
S4: we desperately need God's help. And I think that's why
S4: this book is going to be so helpful to, uh,
S4: to moms as well. Well, this is Mother's Day weekend.
S4: And you say in the book that this holiday has
S4: been a struggle for you. Why is that?
S1: You know, and I want to say this first, because
S1: if my husband hears this, he is amazing. And he
S1: always makes me feel special. So it's not because he
S1: doesn't bring flowers or thinks about me. He makes me
S1: feel special, truly, every day. He's a wonderful person. But
S1: I think on Mother's Day we have this picture because
S1: we've seen other moms honored and, um, we've seen their
S1: shout outs and we've heard what people have to say
S1: about them on days like Mother's Day. And so I
S1: think what happened was the first few Mother's Days, I
S1: woke up thinking, okay, here's the day. Not that I
S1: get to be celebrated. I used to think, okay is
S1: my issue, that I just want to be celebrated. I
S1: just want to be worshipped today. But when I began
S1: to really wrestle with these concepts, I began to realize
S1: when we go through life thinking we're not enough and
S1: we're not worthy, and we have to strive and perform
S1: and do enough in order to gain that. Then on
S1: Mother's Day, if we don't feel that way, if we
S1: don't feel that we are told or enough, then it
S1: feels like major failure, because that is the one day
S1: that we wake up thinking, I finally get to hear
S1: if I've passed or failed. but that's not actually true.
S1: And and I think I had to come to learn
S1: that even a day that is called Mother's Day, it's
S1: still a day for his glory. And that becomes way
S1: easier when I realize his goodness. Um, in the way
S1: that he loves me and in the way that he
S1: allows me to be a mom.
S4: Yeah, it's a tremendous gift when you think about it. Right?
S4: Being a mom, of course, being a dad, a great
S4: gift that God has given us. And that's why I
S4: think all of us are so grateful that we have
S4: the model, you know, of God our father and Christ
S4: our Savior, and all of that. So.
S2: You're listening to the Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
S2: He's the author of the New York Times best seller
S2: The Five Love Languages. Hallie Dye is our guest. And
S2: if you go to Building Relationships, you'll see our featured resource,
S2: her book, You're Still a Good Mom. Motherhood surrendered to
S2: the one who never fails, even when you feel you have. Again,
S2: go to building relationships.
S4: I think you said earlier that you do not consider
S4: this book to be a parenting book. Is that true? Mhm.
S1: Yes. I think that's because most of the time when
S1: I think, okay, I need a parenting book because, um,
S1: you know, I have this really strong willed child or
S1: now I have teenagers or how do I deal with
S1: these toddlers. And you know, you look for books that
S1: have methods and there's not a whole lot of method
S1: to this book other than relinquishing. And yet that has
S1: changed the way that I parent so much.
S4: Hmm. So relinquishing that sense of control and acknowledging that
S4: God will give me what I need, uh, to be
S4: the mom he wants me to be. Right.
S1: Right.
S4: What was the biggest fear in writing this book?
S1: Heresy.
S4: I was.
S1: I think, um, anytime I speak or teach or write anything,
S1: that has been my greatest fear because, um, you know,
S1: I can deal with having poor writing or grammatical errors,
S1: but if I feel like I've failed him or failed
S1: to bring glory to him, then that scares me. But
S1: that's also something I've had to learn to really hand
S1: to him and trust him. That's another thing I've had
S1: to learn to surrender. I would say another thing in
S1: writing this book has been, oh my goodness, what if
S1: I launch this book and I'm out at target and
S1: I still don't have all this together? And I've learned
S1: that will happen because I still don't have all this together.
S1: But the truth is that I don't have to. And
S1: he holds again, holds the outcomes. And so it's been
S1: very gracious for me to really work through those fears
S1: with him. But they were also very real.
S4: Yeah, I can see that. Well, talk about the values
S4: and the difficulties of connecting with other moms.
S1: Mhm. One difficulty, um, that comes to mind immediately is
S1: especially with smaller kids, is just being able to finish
S1: your sentences. I mean, you know, you sometimes will get
S1: together and you'll leave and say, we started about 20
S1: stories and finished none of them, you know. And that
S1: can make you feel like, oh, goodness, did they feel
S1: like I was distracted? Well, you know, we were because
S1: we were keeping people alive, you know. And but the
S1: value is when we really are able to connect over
S1: things that. Oh, really? You were feeling that way too,
S1: because you you look like you always have that together.
S1: I had no idea you were struggling with the same things.
S1: It's that. And that's what's been so beautiful about the book,
S1: is hearing people all say, I needed to hear this,
S1: because a lot of times, and this goes back to
S1: fears in writing, there's a lot of those could be
S1: a whole episode, but a lot of times I'll be
S1: writing something and you wrestle with something so long that
S1: at the end you can kind of convince yourself, no
S1: one really needs to hear this. Um, everybody already knows this, but,
S1: you know, it's been life giving to hear the Lord
S1: use it in moms lives. And it connects me with strangers.
S1: You know, when when I speak at an event and
S1: a woman comes up with tears in her eyes and say,
S1: I always ask myself or wonder, am I a good mom?
S1: And so I just think there's this universal bonding that
S1: the Lord's given us in this role. And so it's
S1: so important to connect. But there can be a lot
S1: of things. And I think going back to those feelings of,
S1: of mom failure and guilt, we can kind of want
S1: to overcome those with trying to look like we have
S1: it all together, and that can actually be a hindrance
S1: of getting getting to that deeper connection of, oh, actually
S1: have the struggle to and and we can have this
S1: deeper connection over, over that.
S4: Yeah. I think life was meant to be lived in community.
S4: And whether it's parents or dads or moms or whatever,
S4: we can help each other, and it helps us when
S4: we realize that others may be struggling with similar things.
S4: How did the writing of this book shape your motherhood journey?
S1: Well, I quit it a lot. Um, because I would
S1: be writing and, um, then have a day where I
S1: just felt like the most impatient mom or the biggest
S1: mom failure, or just feel like I can't say these
S1: things to other moms. I'm struggling to believe I'm, you know,
S1: alone in my four walls. And so there were many
S1: times I quit the book, sometimes audibly. But in all
S1: of that, every time I returned, I had to really
S1: come back to what is true. No, this is true.
S1: Those things were lies. Those things were feelings. But this
S1: is true. And so it really was refining in such
S1: a gracious process for the Lord to have me walk through.
S1: Because I truly believe this for other moms now, and
S1: can say that with feeling and gumption, because I had
S1: to come back to that in order for this book
S1: to to become what it is and for me to
S1: continue to put this out. And so that is one thing.
S1: And also even just in the the meeting, writing deadlines
S1: and and learning the publishing process, because it is still
S1: foreign to me and in the marketing and still being
S1: a mom on the side of all those things was
S1: really coming to the end of that surrender we've been
S1: talking about. If this is the capacity that I have,
S1: there's been times that the kids are home from school
S1: because they're sick or they're out of school that week,
S1: and I'm speaking that week, and I have to really,
S1: you know, like start my talk and practice and then
S1: pause it and peel an apple and then come back.
S1: And where was I? And going back a year ago,
S1: that would have really stressed me out. But now I'm
S1: able to rest. And you knew I would be here.
S1: You knew that this would be our circumstances. Um, when
S1: I said yes to this. And so the capacity that
S1: you've given me is enough. And if I can glorify
S1: you and speak truth, that's okay, because none of this
S1: is a performance.
S4: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I don't know, but you may
S4: have this experience in the future. But as I've gotten older,
S4: I reflect back on when I was single, when I
S4: first had children, when I first had teenagers, I've sometimes
S4: reread my books in those areas and think, man, I
S4: wish I'd have had this, you know, back, back then.
S4: So so I think perhaps you'll find that true as well.
S4: You know, uh, in wrestling with mom guilt because you're
S4: You are walking through it and you're writing it as
S4: you're going through it, you know? So I think it's
S4: going to help a lot of ladies who are going
S4: through it. What's the Lord teaching you in your current
S4: season of motherhood?
S1: Well, first of all, let me say how encouraging that
S1: was and also say that your work has impacted me
S1: and I've been grateful to have it, um, in my
S1: marriage and in my all of my relationships. So thank you.
S1: That was extremely encouraging. I think it goes back to,
S1: in my current motherhood is the capacity piece, but to
S1: extend that also towards the ability to just be present,
S1: because I think when we are trying to earn this
S1: title of a good mom or, um, enough or worthy,
S1: whatever that title is that we feel like we're fighting
S1: for in our actions and in our tasks completed, that
S1: we can miss the people across from us. But when
S1: I'm able to rest in all of those gospel truths
S1: that we've talked about, then I'm able to actually be
S1: present because I don't have to earn my worth. And
S1: we've actually had some really good conversations with some friends
S1: after the book launch, talking about rest and being able
S1: to play with our kids and enjoy hobbies as moms.
S1: And I think one of the reasons that moms struggle
S1: the most with those things is because if you are
S1: finding your worth and work, then you cannot take a
S1: break from that because you feel worthless when you rest
S1: and you feel worthless when you play or do something
S1: you want to do. But the gospel truth says that
S1: our worth remains the same because of who he is
S1: and what he's done. And so it actually gives us
S1: the permission to do those things. But the benefit of
S1: that now with older kids is they're able to see
S1: a mom who can pause and stop and be present,
S1: and it's that same old Martha, Martha, you are worried
S1: about all these things, but there's only one thing that
S1: is that really matters. And so that permission that Jesus
S1: gives Martha. They're not to be merry, but to come
S1: as Martha is. And and that, I would say, is
S1: where I'm at right now.
S4: Yeah.
S3: It sounds to me like, as I'm hearing you, Hallie,
S3: the truth of God's sovereignty has kind of seeped into
S3: your soul where you're not performing for him any longer.
S3: You're simply receiving from him and then trying. Well, it's
S3: the abundant life. You know, I came to give life
S3: and give it abundantly. That's what you're saying yes to.
S3: Is that right?
S1: Yes, absolutely. And it's a daily, daily surrender and sitting
S1: in that truth. But yes.
S4: Ellie, in our last segment, you mentioned Martha and what
S4: Jesus said about her and Mary. Are there other biblical
S4: examples that were helpful to you as you studied the scriptures,
S4: looking at this area of motherhood?
S1: Absolutely two come to mind right off the bat. One
S1: of them is how when David fought Goliath and he
S1: tried to wear Saul's armor, that he recognized that one,
S1: it didn't fit. But it also says that they were untested.
S1: But what was tested and true was him being able
S1: to rely on the Lord. And so we talk about
S1: that in in the lack and limitation of he looked
S1: outwardly unaccompanied. Goliath had a what was it, a shield bearer?
S1: I can't remember exactly what the term was, but outwardly
S1: David had nothing and was way smaller. But but he
S1: had the Lord. And that is something that is so
S1: encouraging to me as a mom, because there are many
S1: times that I want to put Saul's armor on, because
S1: I want to look like that mom, or or be
S1: like that, mom. But the Lord has plans for me,
S1: and I don't need to be the perfect mom. I
S1: just need to be the mom that God made me
S1: to be. And that is a good mom. And another
S1: is the Proverbs 31 woman. And a lot of people
S1: don't realize that she wasn't real. She was this sort
S1: of poem created by King Lemuel's mother for him to
S1: kind of recognize the character of, of a, of a
S1: good wife and of a good mom. And we look
S1: at her and we think, oh my goodness, there's no
S1: way I can amount to all, of, all of these
S1: things that she's good at and that she has achieved. And,
S1: you know, she makes her own bedspreads and she gets
S1: up before the dawn. That one sounds the hardest to me. Um,
S1: but that she's an entrepreneur and she is organized and
S1: she is wise, and she turns a profit and can
S1: speak eloquently. And there's all these things that you think, man,
S1: I don't have all of those. But what's really neat
S1: when we realize that she wasn't a real person, meaning
S1: to meet all of these checklists in one season and
S1: one person, we begin to say, okay, but do you
S1: see any of these traits that align with how God
S1: created you to be? Well then good. You get to
S1: see the the Word of God. Affirm those things in you,
S1: and how can you live those out to his glory?
S1: And so those things have been really freeing to me
S1: as a mom.
S4: Yeah, I know every time I hear a message on
S4: that on Mother's Day, I kind of feel for mothers
S4: because it lays it on really heavy. And and many
S4: times they don't make the point that you just made
S4: that this is not a real mother. This is a
S4: mother describing for her son what a wonderful, wonderful mother
S4: would be like.
S1: Right. And the ultimate truth that she's a woman who
S1: fears the Lord, you know.
S4: Oh, yeah, that's where it all starts. And that's really
S4: the heart of your book, I think, too, is it's
S4: it's our relationship with God that is going to carry
S4: us through and make us a good mom. Not a
S4: perfect mom, but a good mom.
S1: Absolutely.
S4: How has writing this book impacted your own personal faith
S4: in God?
S1: You know, from start to finish to quitting, to starting
S1: again and really even how this book was published. Because honestly,
S1: I shouldn't have gotten a book deal. The world and
S1: the publishing world says that shouldn't have happened. Um, and
S1: that would be true. But so often as I wrestled
S1: over the fears that we talked about earlier, I would pray, Lord,
S1: if this book is not going to bring you glory,
S1: if this book is about me and it's not about
S1: what you have to say for moms, it's not. It's
S1: not about you. Um, if it's not going to point
S1: people to you, if it's going to lead anyone astray,
S1: please don't let this book go out. Don't let this
S1: be successful. And I had to pray that in order
S1: to be able to rest, that that I was within
S1: his will. And so I look back at really the
S1: miraculous way that it did get published. And I go, okay,
S1: you had a plan. And so when I look back
S1: and say, oh, you know, maybe I should have said
S1: this or I wouldn't have said it exactly like that
S1: or whatever, that fear that that little worry or doubt
S1: that that comes up later. I know for a fact
S1: that he had a plan for this, and that also
S1: allows me to rest in moving forward on the next thing, um,
S1: whether that's a public decision or just something inside my
S1: home to go, okay, I don't know the future. I
S1: don't know what I need. I don't know what my
S1: kids need. But you do. Would you guide my hands
S1: in every single facet and decision? And if I begin
S1: to walk through a door that's not for your glory
S1: or isn't far good, would you just shut it? And
S1: that has begun to change the way that I move forward.
S1: Just seeing his faithfulness and his provision. Um, and really
S1: just the providence in the past.
S4: Yeah. I think that a desire that all of us
S4: who are true Christians have is we want to walk
S4: the path that God has for us, you know, and
S4: that's going to be different for every one of us
S4: because we're unique and we're all gifted differently. But if
S4: we are seeking that and want and asking God to
S4: guide us in what he has in mind for us,
S4: you know, the scriptures say man makes his plans, but
S4: God directs his steps. And that's what all of us want.
S4: As we come near the end of our program today,
S4: talk to the mom who's listening, who feels guilty for
S4: not being the perfect mother, and then feels guilty for
S4: feeling guilty. What would you say to her?
S1: Oh, not the double guilt. I think so often when
S1: we ask this question, am I a good mom? We
S1: can be really good at remembering the the highlight reel
S1: of all the ways we didn't measure up for the day.
S1: You know, we don't necessarily remember all the things we
S1: showed up and did a good job, but we can
S1: always really remember the ways that we do feel like
S1: we failed. And I want to say this one if
S1: you have the righteousness of Christ, then you have the
S1: covering in which he claimed, this is my son, in
S1: whom I'm well pleased. We really need to sit in
S1: that and and really wrestle with. Could that be true?
S1: Because yes it is. And it will change everything. But
S1: to the mom that says, well, you don't know this.
S1: And I really did lose my patience and I really
S1: did raise my voice and and this, this, this, the
S1: beautiful truth about repentance and repair, repenting with the Lord
S1: and then repairing with our kids of modeling this saying,
S1: I'm sorry is so powerful because kids hold their parents
S1: in high esteem no matter what we do. We just do.
S1: Parents are just important. That's why people in their 30s, 40s,
S1: 50s would still love to hear this word from their
S1: parents that they never felt like they did, or whatever
S1: that looks like. And so our words matter. But the
S1: beautiful thing about when we fail and we model that
S1: repentance and repair for our kids and with our kids,
S1: they're able to see, oh my goodness, when mom said this,
S1: when dad said this, they didn't lose their worth. When
S1: they admitted that they failed and that they're sorry. And
S1: not only does it show them this is the way,
S1: but it also makes it to where they can now
S1: memorize that pathway to the throne of grace and mercy
S1: in their time of need. And what if the Lord
S1: is so sovereign and so providential, that he can actually
S1: use even our failures to model that repentance that we
S1: are to keep up with in order to bear fruit.
S1: And so I would just encourage that, mom, that you
S1: literally can't outrun his faithfulness and his goodness if you
S1: continue to seek him and follow him in everything.
S3: Hallie, can you tell us a story from the book,
S3: kind of a vulnerable place in your own life that
S3: that will sum up what you've been talking about here today.
S1: Absolutely. Um, one of my favorite stories from the book,
S1: and I joke all the time that really, this book
S1: is just writing these great truths that my husband said,
S1: and I just wrote it and put my name on it. Um,
S1: but there was a one day in that season that
S1: I talked about of we were kind of beginning to
S1: get out of shelter at home in 2020, but, um,
S1: but we were very much still at home, still had
S1: a four now three and one year old. And I'd
S1: been home all day with them, um, by myself. And
S1: it was just, again, a long day and a lot
S1: of needs and caretaking in that time of life. And, um,
S1: just I want to say to any mom that that's
S1: a hard season and it doesn't it's not like that forever.
S1: But my husband came home and he's so fun, and
S1: he was like, hey, let's take the kids to the pool.
S1: Because we had recently joined a gym here locally. And
S1: I would love to say that the gym and the
S1: workout facility sold me. But really, the snack bar and
S1: the splash pad and the pool sold me. So I
S1: was like, okay, you know, well, let's, let's go. And
S1: that'll be good. And I wanted to be the mom
S1: in that instance so badly. That was joyful and excited
S1: about that experience. I would love to be the mom
S1: that didn't think about how hard that would be and
S1: show up and say, oh, this is kind of a challenge.
S1: I've never been that person. And so I'm automatically thinking, oh,
S1: that means that I've got to get wrestle all of
S1: them into their swimsuits. That means that we already have
S1: three and there's two of us. So we've already moved
S1: from man to man defense to zone defense. And now
S1: we're going to do that by open pools of water.
S1: And so I'm thinking through all those things. And um,
S1: but I don't say any of it out loud. I
S1: just say, okay, you know, and I'm really trying to
S1: force my feelings into being the fun, joyful mom that
S1: I really want to be. And so we go and
S1: we go to the splash pad first, exhaust all the
S1: splash pad. And six minutes later, when we've done that,
S1: they're ready to go to the pool. So we go,
S1: we get in the kiddie pool and everyone has a
S1: good time and you know, it goes well. And then
S1: I recognize we probably need to go before everybody gets hangry.
S1: And so we load up. And I really just was
S1: at war with myself for my feelings in that moment.
S1: I was just even though everybody had a good time
S1: and nobody really knew I was struggling, I just still
S1: felt a certain way and I couldn't really pinpoint that.
S1: So we're almost home and my kids are in the
S1: back seat and they're playing and talking, so they're not
S1: paying attention to us. And I finally was able to like,
S1: pinpoint why am I feeling this way? And I voiced
S1: to my husband, Andrew, you know, I just want to
S1: be the mom that is always fun and loving and kind.
S1: And I thought he would say, oh, you are. And
S1: I would have ignored that because he's nice and I
S1: that wouldn't have, you know, really made me feel better, unfortunately.
S1: But he didn't. He said, do you want a God
S1: that is always fun and loving and kind? And that
S1: kind of took me aback and I thought about it.
S1: And even though I recognized that we have no say
S1: in who God is, I chose to play along and said, well, well,
S1: I want a God that is good. Because somewhere in
S1: my answer, I recognized there's a lot more to God
S1: than just those things. And he said, exactly. And there's
S1: a lot more. And like, spoke directly to that and said,
S1: there's a lot more that's encompassing and good and that's
S1: what you're giving our kids. Well, I can barely tell
S1: that story without.
S4: Crying because.
S1: That was such a kindness to me.
S4: Yes. A very wise husband, I would say. Absolutely. Well, Holly,
S4: this conversation has been very, very good. And I really
S4: believe this book is going to help a lot of
S4: moms who are struggling with this whole issue and often
S4: feeling guilty of not not being a good mom. So
S4: thanks for writing the book, and thanks for being with
S4: us today on the program.
S1: Groom. Thank you so much. I pray that it will
S1: and thank you for having me. It was an honor.
S3: Again, the title of Hally's book, You're Still a Good Mom.
S3: Motherhood surrendered to the one who never fails, even when
S3: you feel you have again. By Hayley Dye d y
S3: e and you can find out more about that at
S3: Building Relationships Again, building relationships.
S4: And next week, help for parents who want to raise
S4: children the way God designed them.
S2: Don't miss the conversation with Sally Clarkson in one week.
S2: Our thanks to Janice backing and Steve Wick for their
S2: work behind the scenes. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman
S2: is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers,
S2: a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.