1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,159 S1: Welcome to our Friday edition of Chris Fabry Live! The 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,240 S1: program from the heart to the heart for the heart. 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,680 S1: Today at the radio backyard fence, someone is going to 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,560 S1: get encouraged about their callings. Specifically, a woman is going 5 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,919 S1: to be encouraged who has felt a tug to be 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,920 S1: a leader of some kind. You felt God nudging you 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,239 S1: to do something, but for whatever reason, you've kind of 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,160 S1: held back. You feel like you're not qualified, you're not 9 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,000 S1: as gifted as others when you compare yourself. The idea 10 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,159 S1: of leading whatever that means kind of scares you. I 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,760 S1: want you to hear from three guests. Today we're going 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,800 S1: to talk about the call. How do you hear the call? 13 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,200 S1: How do you believe the call? How do you respond 14 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,720 S1: to it? Let's get going first with a thank you 15 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,400 S1: to our team. Ryan McConaughey doing all things technical. Tricia 16 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,560 S1: is our producer. Lisa's helping out. Josh will be answering 17 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,560 S1: your calls today. And since it's Friday. That's right. It's 18 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,660 S1: time for the fabulous favorite Friday. Sigh. Here's what it does. 19 00:01:00,660 --> 00:01:04,620 S1: One we oxygenate your blood. Two we get your endorphins going. 20 00:01:04,660 --> 00:01:08,780 S1: Three we raise your serotonin. Level four we promote lymphatic 21 00:01:08,780 --> 00:01:12,900 S1: drainage and five we stimulate your parasympathetic system. That's why 22 00:01:12,900 --> 00:01:15,979 S1: we call it the five lung languages. We also stimulate 23 00:01:15,980 --> 00:01:19,100 S1: your vagus nerve. We help you release acetylcholine. And don't 24 00:01:19,100 --> 00:01:22,700 S1: you dare forget what it does to cortisol dissipation right now, 25 00:01:22,740 --> 00:01:26,300 S1: taking four seconds of air through your nose. Hold it 26 00:01:26,300 --> 00:01:28,979 S1: for seconds. And then as you release that air through 27 00:01:29,020 --> 00:01:31,259 S1: your mouth, push on the left side of your rib 28 00:01:31,260 --> 00:01:34,860 S1: cage to get rid of all that bad carbon dioxide. Today, 29 00:01:34,860 --> 00:01:37,860 S1: we present a Women in Ministry site. I want you 30 00:01:37,860 --> 00:01:40,300 S1: to think about the woman who has encouraged you, either 31 00:01:40,300 --> 00:01:43,900 S1: a contemporary person or an example from scripture. Maybe it's 32 00:01:43,900 --> 00:01:46,100 S1: a name we know, a Bible teacher and author, a 33 00:01:46,100 --> 00:01:49,460 S1: radio host. Maybe it's someone whose name is not widely known, 34 00:01:49,460 --> 00:01:52,340 S1: but she has made a huge difference in your life. 35 00:01:52,540 --> 00:01:54,820 S1: Give a sigh for the women in scripture who stepped 36 00:01:54,820 --> 00:01:57,140 S1: up and answered the call of God. Mary, the mother 37 00:01:57,140 --> 00:02:01,240 S1: of Jesus, Mary and Martha, the sisters of Lazarus. There's 38 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,400 S1: Deborah and Ruth and Sarah and Rahab and Esther. And 39 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,560 S1: don't forget Eve or Priscilla. Today's fabulous baby Friday is 40 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,720 S1: brought to you by JL and her tent peg. All 41 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,840 S1: rights reserved. I love that story. I love JL and 42 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,200 S1: I loved Ehud, the left handed Benjamite, but we're not 43 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,280 S1: going there today before we meet our guests. Here is 44 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,320 S1: one woman in ministry who has made a difference in 45 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,480 S1: my life. Her name is Colleen Chow and the call 46 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,280 S1: on her life has been for the last few years 47 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,600 S1: to allow God to use her suffering for his glory 48 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,320 S1: and our good. About four years ago, Colleen had a 49 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,360 S1: devastating diagnosis, and she felt God was calling her to 50 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,000 S1: be faithful to the pain and right her heart out, basically. 51 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,520 S1: And she's done that. And her latest book is our. 52 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,920 S1: Thank you for just a few more days. I really 53 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,520 S1: want to send you a copy of this to encourage you. 54 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,120 S1: I want to encourage Colleen at the end of the month, 55 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,590 S1: call her up and say, look at this book. This 56 00:02:57,590 --> 00:03:00,630 S1: is why we've gotten this support this month. So if 57 00:03:00,669 --> 00:03:03,190 S1: you will call us and click through and give a 58 00:03:03,190 --> 00:03:06,549 S1: or call or click through. Give a gift. We'll send 59 00:03:06,550 --> 00:03:10,910 S1: you a copy of On Our Way Home. Reflections on 60 00:03:10,910 --> 00:03:14,310 S1: Heaven in the Face of death. It's by Colleen Chow. 61 00:03:14,470 --> 00:03:20,350 S1: Just go to Chris dot f a b r y chris.org, 62 00:03:21,310 --> 00:03:30,389 S1: or you can call 86695438669532279. And thank you for your 63 00:03:30,389 --> 00:03:33,710 S1: support of the radio backyard fence. Because of your support, 64 00:03:33,710 --> 00:03:38,830 S1: we get to have the conversation about being called. When 65 00:03:38,830 --> 00:03:41,030 S1: you hear that word, what do you think about? Have 66 00:03:41,030 --> 00:03:43,630 S1: you heard people say, I was called to this or 67 00:03:43,630 --> 00:03:46,470 S1: God called me to blank? What does that mean? How 68 00:03:46,470 --> 00:03:48,230 S1: do you get a call? How do you hear it? 69 00:03:48,270 --> 00:03:50,430 S1: How do you know you're called? And how do you 70 00:03:50,430 --> 00:03:54,390 S1: respond in faith and not fear? I have three guests 71 00:03:54,390 --> 00:03:57,450 S1: who are speaking at the called conference this year. It's 72 00:03:57,450 --> 00:04:00,090 S1: a one day training event designed to strengthen and equip 73 00:04:00,090 --> 00:04:04,250 S1: women who serve in ministry leadership or who are thinking 74 00:04:04,250 --> 00:04:06,930 S1: about that. We have a link at the website that 75 00:04:06,930 --> 00:04:10,090 S1: tells all. It's coming up April 11th. And here's the 76 00:04:10,090 --> 00:04:12,730 S1: good news you can experience it live on the campus 77 00:04:12,730 --> 00:04:15,770 S1: of Moody Bible Institute in Chicago. Or if you can't 78 00:04:15,770 --> 00:04:19,330 S1: get to Chicago on April 11th, you can attend online 79 00:04:19,330 --> 00:04:23,330 S1: this year. All the information is at Chris dot o 80 00:04:23,490 --> 00:04:27,730 S1: r g. First up, three guests. First up, Doctor Pam McCray. 81 00:04:27,850 --> 00:04:31,170 S1: She is the driving force behind this conference and has 82 00:04:31,170 --> 00:04:33,610 S1: been for a number of years. Professor of Ministry to 83 00:04:33,650 --> 00:04:37,010 S1: Women at Moody Bible Institute. Served in church and parachurch 84 00:04:37,010 --> 00:04:41,169 S1: ministry more than 34 or 5 years. It's more than. 85 00:04:41,290 --> 00:04:44,090 S1: Is it 40 now? Pam, I don't know. 86 00:04:45,290 --> 00:04:46,690 S2: Whatever I don't know. 87 00:04:46,730 --> 00:04:51,530 S1: Yeah. 14 of those years she served as a pastor's wife. 88 00:04:51,529 --> 00:04:54,170 S1: Doctor Pam McCray, welcome to the program. How are you 89 00:04:54,230 --> 00:04:54,830 S1: doing today? 90 00:04:54,830 --> 00:04:57,470 S2: I'm doing well, thank you. Chris, how are you? 91 00:04:57,750 --> 00:05:00,150 S1: I'm well and I'm really looking forward to this because 92 00:05:00,150 --> 00:05:05,830 S1: I really hope that there is somebody listening who will feel, uh, free. 93 00:05:06,110 --> 00:05:08,350 S1: And I think part of that's going to be with 94 00:05:08,350 --> 00:05:12,230 S1: our two keynote speakers, trillion new Bell. I'm going to 95 00:05:12,230 --> 00:05:14,190 S1: call trillion. You and I are the only ones who 96 00:05:14,190 --> 00:05:18,029 S1: aren't doctors here. So Doctor Noble, you are keynote speaker. 97 00:05:18,070 --> 00:05:18,510 S3: Thank you. 98 00:05:18,710 --> 00:05:22,550 S1: Host of living by Faith heard real early on Saturday morning. Uh, 99 00:05:22,550 --> 00:05:25,429 S1: at least where I am, it's real early. I've written 100 00:05:25,430 --> 00:05:28,750 S1: a number of books we've linked celebrating around the table 101 00:05:28,750 --> 00:05:32,029 S1: at the website, Chris Fabry live.org trivia. What are you 102 00:05:32,029 --> 00:05:34,909 S1: talking about tomorrow on the program? Do you know? 103 00:05:35,910 --> 00:05:39,469 S4: Oh, tomorrow on the program I am talking about, I 104 00:05:39,950 --> 00:05:42,429 S4: let me prep that. Let me look for that here. 105 00:05:42,790 --> 00:05:45,589 S4: I see, you know, it's so funny. Same thing you did. 106 00:05:45,589 --> 00:05:47,230 S5: The same thing that I do because I can't tell 107 00:05:47,230 --> 00:05:47,590 S5: you from. 108 00:05:47,589 --> 00:05:49,750 S1: One day to the next. It's like tomorrow. I'll figure 109 00:05:49,750 --> 00:05:50,589 S1: that out, right? 110 00:05:51,430 --> 00:05:54,850 S4: Yes, yes. Well, I am so thankful for our awesome 111 00:05:54,850 --> 00:05:59,250 S4: producers who keep us in line and keep us ready to, um, 112 00:05:59,290 --> 00:06:01,730 S4: encourage our faith. I'm actually, I have Kelly Warhol on 113 00:06:01,730 --> 00:06:04,089 S4: and we're going to be talking about the called conference too. Actually, 114 00:06:04,130 --> 00:06:05,969 S4: all month long, we're going to be talking about the 115 00:06:05,970 --> 00:06:08,130 S4: called conference. And I knew we were talking about called, 116 00:06:08,130 --> 00:06:09,810 S4: but I didn't know which guest. So I wanted to 117 00:06:09,810 --> 00:06:13,050 S4: make sure I got that right. So I'm so excited 118 00:06:13,050 --> 00:06:15,930 S4: to have Kelly on. She's the chair of the music 119 00:06:15,930 --> 00:06:20,370 S4: and media arts, uh, field professor at Moody Bible Institute. 120 00:06:20,370 --> 00:06:21,050 S4: So it'll be. 121 00:06:21,050 --> 00:06:21,250 S3: Great. 122 00:06:21,930 --> 00:06:25,890 S1: All right, listen, tomorrow morning to that conversation with Doctor 123 00:06:25,890 --> 00:06:29,930 S1: Newbell and her guest. The other guest is Doctor Sandra Richter. 124 00:06:30,250 --> 00:06:30,890 S1: She's the other. 125 00:06:30,930 --> 00:06:32,250 S3: Who's a real doctor. Speaker. 126 00:06:32,570 --> 00:06:35,650 S1: Yes she is. She holds the Robert H. Gundry, chair 127 00:06:35,650 --> 00:06:40,850 S1: of Old Testament at Westmont College, combines history, archaeology, geography 128 00:06:40,850 --> 00:06:44,490 S1: and ancient Near East languages to bring the Old Testament 129 00:06:44,490 --> 00:06:47,409 S1: to life. She's written a number of books and studies. 130 00:06:47,410 --> 00:06:51,010 S1: One of them we have linked is the Epic of Eden, 131 00:06:51,050 --> 00:06:55,830 S1: a A Christian entry into the Old Testament. Doctor Richter, 132 00:06:55,830 --> 00:06:58,750 S1: welcome to the program. You're going to be speaking on 133 00:06:59,589 --> 00:07:02,190 S1: the Psalms. I think you wrote this to me, a 134 00:07:02,190 --> 00:07:04,630 S1: workshop on Psalm 23. Is that right? 135 00:07:05,589 --> 00:07:08,589 S6: Yes. Um, first of all, thank you for the invitation. 136 00:07:08,589 --> 00:07:15,230 S6: It's great to be here. And, uh, I'm so grateful 137 00:07:15,230 --> 00:07:18,950 S6: for the invitation and for Pam McCray reaching out to me. 138 00:07:19,150 --> 00:07:22,750 S6: So I'm doing a workshop on Psalm 23 of sheep 139 00:07:22,750 --> 00:07:28,590 S6: and shepherds. And then the plenary is on our key verse. 140 00:07:28,590 --> 00:07:33,190 S6: First Thessalonians two four approved of God, entrusted with the gospel. 141 00:07:33,830 --> 00:07:37,390 S1: Excellent. Okay, talk about that. Pam, why did you choose 142 00:07:37,390 --> 00:07:39,750 S1: entrusted with the gospel as the theme? 143 00:07:40,710 --> 00:07:43,150 S2: Well, I think it's really important for women to know 144 00:07:43,150 --> 00:07:47,070 S2: that they have been entrusted with the gospel and that 145 00:07:47,070 --> 00:07:50,530 S2: they are to speak and declare the words of God 146 00:07:51,170 --> 00:07:55,290 S2: to those around them. And I think we need to 147 00:07:55,290 --> 00:07:57,650 S2: be encouraged in that. I think as all believers need 148 00:07:57,650 --> 00:08:04,290 S2: to be encouraged in that women in particular often wonder exactly, um, 149 00:08:04,290 --> 00:08:09,490 S2: about their calling and where that fits. And so I 150 00:08:09,490 --> 00:08:12,490 S2: want to encourage women that they have been called to 151 00:08:12,530 --> 00:08:16,370 S2: declare that widely and broadly so that the world knows. 152 00:08:16,850 --> 00:08:19,410 S1: And truly, when I hear your voice, I hear you 153 00:08:19,410 --> 00:08:22,410 S1: on the radio and I hear your smile every time 154 00:08:22,410 --> 00:08:24,290 S1: I see pictures of you and you're always smiling. I 155 00:08:24,290 --> 00:08:27,490 S1: don't know how, but that's part of your story. Entrusted 156 00:08:27,490 --> 00:08:29,770 S1: with the gospel, there was someone who was entrusted with 157 00:08:29,770 --> 00:08:32,530 S1: the gospel who reached out to you early on, right? 158 00:08:33,610 --> 00:08:37,170 S4: Yes. When I was 19, um, a girl shared the 159 00:08:37,210 --> 00:08:39,850 S4: gospel with me and my life was transformed. The whole 160 00:08:39,850 --> 00:08:44,490 S4: trajectory of my life changed. And, and so from, but 161 00:08:44,490 --> 00:08:46,210 S4: I it took a couple of years. I became a 162 00:08:46,210 --> 00:08:51,600 S4: Christian at the age of 22 And almost immediately went 163 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,240 S4: into ministry of some sort. I was an intern at 164 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,480 S4: my college ministry and have such a heart for sharing 165 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,480 S4: the gospel and spreading his name and his renown so 166 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,400 S4: that it started once I submitted my life to him 167 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:07,480 S4: at the age of 22. 168 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,959 S1: Doctor Richter, what about you? Did you have a sense 169 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,199 S1: of calling on your life when you were a teenager 170 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:15,359 S1: or in your 20s? 171 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,240 S6: Well, my story actually is is similar to yours. Uh, 172 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:24,040 S6: I became a Christian when I was 15, 16, came 173 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:31,200 S6: out of a completely un, um, unaware background and really 174 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,760 S6: early on. I, first of all, I had no life 175 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,760 S6: plan because I didn't really have parents either. It's another 176 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,600 S6: set of stories. So, um, I thought Jesus was coming 177 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,480 S6: back in the next ten days. I had no plan. Uh, 178 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,900 S6: someone dropped the book, the cross and the switchblade into 179 00:09:48,940 --> 00:09:52,300 S6: my hands. And I read that book, and the Holy 180 00:09:52,300 --> 00:09:55,260 S6: Spirit used it. And I went back to one of 181 00:09:55,260 --> 00:09:58,380 S6: the leaders in my little house church and said, hey, 182 00:09:58,420 --> 00:10:01,860 S6: I've read this book. I can't sleep at night. I 183 00:10:01,860 --> 00:10:04,260 S6: need to find these people and I need to help them. 184 00:10:04,260 --> 00:10:07,500 S6: And they said, that is a call to ministry. So 185 00:10:07,500 --> 00:10:10,900 S6: that's how my trajectory got changed. 186 00:10:10,940 --> 00:10:13,860 S1: Doctor Mccrady, did you feel that same way, that there's 187 00:10:13,860 --> 00:10:16,860 S1: something here that I need to do or follow? 188 00:10:17,660 --> 00:10:19,380 S2: Well, you know, I grew up in a Christian home 189 00:10:19,380 --> 00:10:22,900 S2: where my dad was a pastor. And so church life 190 00:10:23,059 --> 00:10:25,579 S2: and being a part of the church was normal and 191 00:10:25,580 --> 00:10:28,660 S2: routine for me. But there and, and when I was 192 00:10:28,660 --> 00:10:30,860 S2: in high school, I went to a Christian boarding school 193 00:10:30,860 --> 00:10:34,220 S2: where about a third of my classmates were missionary kids. 194 00:10:34,220 --> 00:10:37,340 S2: And so I always assumed that if you really love Jesus, 195 00:10:37,340 --> 00:10:40,459 S2: you'd be a missionary. And if Jesus really wanted you, 196 00:10:40,500 --> 00:10:45,580 S2: you'd be a missionary. And so there came a point 197 00:10:45,580 --> 00:10:49,200 S2: in my experience, when we were having some kind of 198 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:54,160 S2: spiritual emphasis week in my high school and wondering what 199 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,280 S2: God had for me in my life, and I was, 200 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,680 S2: you know, kind of assessing whether and where I would 201 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:01,800 S2: be a missionary if God wanted me to be a missionary. 202 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,160 S2: And I just didn't feel that that was where he 203 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,920 S2: was calling me. And the the greatest sense of call 204 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:08,720 S2: I ever had. And I don't I think we can 205 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,160 S2: talk about this. I didn't really have this sense of 206 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,440 S2: great call over my life too much. But I do 207 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,040 S2: remember asking the Lord, do you want me to be 208 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,120 S2: a missionary? And I didn't sense that that's where he 209 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,640 S2: was leading me. And I felt very much that he 210 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:28,760 S2: was reassuring me or telling me or leading me, giving 211 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,280 S2: me the interest of working in a church, and that 212 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,120 S2: I was called to the local church. And so that's 213 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,560 S2: the greatest sense to, to, um, and I didn't know 214 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,679 S2: what that meant when I was whatever, you know, I 215 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:42,600 S2: didn't know what that meant. 216 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,260 S1: I want you to speak then to women who are 217 00:11:45,260 --> 00:11:49,300 S1: listening today, and they feel that same sense of stirring 218 00:11:49,300 --> 00:11:52,580 S1: or a nudge or an urge, and they've kind of 219 00:11:52,620 --> 00:11:54,980 S1: pushed it down. And I think that's part of what's 220 00:11:54,980 --> 00:11:58,699 S1: going to happen. On Saturday, April 11th at the Called 221 00:11:58,700 --> 00:12:03,220 S1: conference at Moody Bible Institute, as well as being online 222 00:12:03,220 --> 00:12:07,819 S1: equipping women in ministry leadership. If you go to chris.org 223 00:12:08,540 --> 00:12:12,300 S1: and click through today's information, you will see the called 224 00:12:12,300 --> 00:12:15,500 S1: conference and how you can be part of that. You 225 00:12:15,500 --> 00:12:17,100 S1: can find out more about it if you want to 226 00:12:17,100 --> 00:12:20,179 S1: show up in Chicago or if you do. The online 227 00:12:20,420 --> 00:12:24,500 S1: entrusted with the gospel is the theme. And Doctor Pam McCray, 228 00:12:24,540 --> 00:12:28,420 S1: Doctor Sandra Richter, and Trillia Newbell are my guests today. 229 00:12:28,460 --> 00:12:41,939 S1: We'll talk more straight ahead on Moody Radio. Equipping women 230 00:12:41,940 --> 00:12:45,160 S1: in ministry Leadership is going to happen at the called 231 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:50,000 S1: conference April 11th at Moody Bible Institute. Or you can 232 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,720 S1: attend online and you can actually get a whole group 233 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,600 S1: together and do that. I think it would be fantastic idea. 234 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,640 S1: We have three guests Doctor Pam McCray, Trillia Newbell and 235 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,880 S1: Doctor Sandra Richter who are going to be there. Sandra 236 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,080 S1: and Trillia are both keynote speakers and they're going to 237 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,120 S1: be doing workshops as well. But Pam, you sent me 238 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,240 S1: an email this morning and said at some point in 239 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,800 S1: the hour, let's talk about the statistics about women stepping 240 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,600 S1: back from church or moving away from church. And I 241 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,840 S1: wanted to do that here early so we don't miss it. 242 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,319 S1: What are you hearing and why do you think that's happening? 243 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,200 S2: Well, I think it's rather astonishing as we think about 244 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:37,120 S2: the way church has been, um, in previous years where 245 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:42,239 S2: women have been the highest majority of the congregation. And 246 00:13:42,300 --> 00:13:46,340 S2: so that has been pretty normative. And now the trajectory 247 00:13:46,340 --> 00:13:50,260 S2: more is that there are more men which we affirm 248 00:13:50,260 --> 00:13:53,980 S2: and are thankful for that are returning to church. But 249 00:13:53,980 --> 00:13:58,340 S2: at the same time, the, um, the research shows that 250 00:13:58,340 --> 00:14:04,620 S2: there are women who are, um, are absenting themselves. And 251 00:14:04,660 --> 00:14:07,860 S2: I think, I think it's, uh, so important for us 252 00:14:07,860 --> 00:14:11,420 S2: to think about, but I think it also, um, can 253 00:14:11,420 --> 00:14:16,059 S2: be related to this whole issue of the call of 254 00:14:16,059 --> 00:14:19,780 S2: a woman and the body of Christ and the way 255 00:14:19,780 --> 00:14:25,060 S2: that church is welcome, um, women and welcome their giftedness 256 00:14:25,060 --> 00:14:32,180 S2: and value them as participating just in union with other believers. 257 00:14:32,540 --> 00:14:37,180 S2: And so when a woman who is, um, spiritually gifted, 258 00:14:37,180 --> 00:14:41,770 S2: but also very gifted in many other ways, comes to 259 00:14:41,770 --> 00:14:45,250 S2: a church and is very limited in her ability to 260 00:14:45,290 --> 00:14:50,690 S2: participate or even to speak and have logical, um, and 261 00:14:50,810 --> 00:14:57,090 S2: conversations and, and then especially theological conversations or to look 262 00:14:57,090 --> 00:15:00,250 S2: around and have a sense of the ministry of the 263 00:15:00,250 --> 00:15:04,410 S2: church and how God can expand and really use women 264 00:15:04,650 --> 00:15:08,170 S2: in the ministry of the church. And they find being 265 00:15:08,170 --> 00:15:11,770 S2: limited in, in so many ways that it can be 266 00:15:11,770 --> 00:15:15,450 S2: very difficult. So women are used to going outside of 267 00:15:15,450 --> 00:15:19,850 S2: the church with both their, um, with their spiritual gifting 268 00:15:20,050 --> 00:15:24,050 S2: and with their sensibilities of how to function within organizational 269 00:15:24,050 --> 00:15:25,730 S2: structures as well. Yes. 270 00:15:25,770 --> 00:15:26,730 S3: So I've heard. 271 00:15:26,730 --> 00:15:29,490 S1: That same thing. I had a friend whose wife was 272 00:15:29,490 --> 00:15:35,410 S1: on the, uh, the board looking for a new pastor and, uh, 273 00:15:35,410 --> 00:15:38,850 S1: he said she is the, he, she is the smartest 274 00:15:38,850 --> 00:15:43,070 S1: person in the room, but sometimes she holds back because 275 00:15:43,110 --> 00:15:46,990 S1: she doesn't, you know, feel for whatever reason. On the 276 00:15:46,990 --> 00:15:50,430 S1: same level, it's almost like she has to be asked 277 00:15:50,590 --> 00:15:54,510 S1: to participate in that. And I'm not sure exactly why 278 00:15:54,550 --> 00:15:57,510 S1: that was. Sandra, are you seeing the same thing with 279 00:15:57,510 --> 00:15:58,750 S1: women in church? 280 00:16:00,710 --> 00:16:04,790 S6: Uh, I don't know the statistics that doctor McCray is sharing, 281 00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:10,550 S6: but it doesn't surprise me at all. Um, we we 282 00:16:10,590 --> 00:16:14,790 S6: we have a problem in the community of Christ where 283 00:16:15,030 --> 00:16:21,710 S6: women's gifting, women's presence is diminished. And that's, uh, I mean, 284 00:16:21,710 --> 00:16:27,310 S6: that's existed throughout my entire experience with the community of 285 00:16:27,310 --> 00:16:31,990 S6: faith that, um, if, if there are two men and 286 00:16:31,990 --> 00:16:34,830 S6: two women in a room, the people who will speak 287 00:16:34,830 --> 00:16:40,330 S6: first be heard first and be responded to will be 288 00:16:40,330 --> 00:16:44,770 S6: the two men in the room. And the Bible does 289 00:16:44,770 --> 00:16:49,050 S6: not endorse or support that kind of attitude. And, you know, 290 00:16:49,090 --> 00:16:53,290 S6: we're we're looking at women, as you named in your introduction, 291 00:16:53,290 --> 00:16:59,410 S6: Deborah and Priscilla, who are absolute leaders in their communities. Uh, 292 00:16:59,410 --> 00:17:02,609 S6: so the community faith needs to, needs to respond. 293 00:17:02,970 --> 00:17:03,410 S3: Yeah. 294 00:17:03,850 --> 00:17:04,490 S1: What do you think? 295 00:17:05,890 --> 00:17:09,770 S4: Yeah, I definitely have seen, and I know that there 296 00:17:09,770 --> 00:17:14,770 S4: are a lot of women who have experienced, um, painful 297 00:17:14,770 --> 00:17:22,450 S4: situations where they've, they felt neglected, unseen, um, uncared for, unheard. However, 298 00:17:22,450 --> 00:17:26,449 S4: I personally, um, I have maybe, I don't know if 299 00:17:26,450 --> 00:17:30,889 S4: it's boldness or faith, but I think there's so many 300 00:17:30,890 --> 00:17:38,030 S4: opportunities to serve and to, um, and care for the 301 00:17:38,030 --> 00:17:41,629 S4: women around me and beyond. I so I have found 302 00:17:41,630 --> 00:17:48,430 S4: myself um. Pushing through those what obstacles that maybe some 303 00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:52,310 S4: feel like they are held back by. And so that 304 00:17:52,510 --> 00:17:56,229 S4: if I were to encourage anyone listening, I would. I 305 00:17:56,270 --> 00:17:59,230 S4: would encourage them. God has given you a gift before 306 00:17:59,230 --> 00:18:01,590 S4: the foundation of the world. He gave you gifts to walk. 307 00:18:01,869 --> 00:18:07,350 S4: That you might walk in them. And if, if you're feeling, um, 308 00:18:07,590 --> 00:18:12,590 S4: suppressed or like, uh, or like. You cannot exercise those gifts. 309 00:18:12,590 --> 00:18:16,590 S4: I would talk to your pastor and the response of the. 310 00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:20,149 S4: Pastor I think is would be telling. And so I've just, 311 00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:22,869 S4: I have not been in, I've been in one, only 312 00:18:22,869 --> 00:18:27,710 S4: one situation where I thought, okay, this is this person 313 00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:34,630 S4: will not support my work and, and, and that you, you, well, 314 00:18:34,790 --> 00:18:38,130 S4: we have you have to make hard decisions based on that. So. 315 00:18:38,290 --> 00:18:42,050 S4: So yeah, I definitely have seen it. I've heard it. Um, 316 00:18:42,210 --> 00:18:50,209 S4: but I think that we're more needed and um, than, than, 317 00:18:50,290 --> 00:18:52,970 S4: than not. And I, I don't know, I. So I've, 318 00:18:52,970 --> 00:18:58,250 S4: I've persevered through, I guess, and, um, used my gifts regardless, 319 00:18:58,250 --> 00:19:01,290 S4: so I really. It's an interesting thing to me, this 320 00:19:01,290 --> 00:19:05,530 S4: conversation about, um, where women are and how they feel 321 00:19:05,530 --> 00:19:06,650 S4: in the church. Yeah. 322 00:19:06,690 --> 00:19:09,649 S1: You used the word voice and I went back to 323 00:19:09,690 --> 00:19:13,050 S1: the Rossi de Rossi book, Seduced and Unshaken The Place 324 00:19:13,050 --> 00:19:16,129 S1: of Dignity in a Woman's Choices. And there is a 325 00:19:16,130 --> 00:19:20,610 S1: chapter in here by Doctor Pam McRae titled Finding Your Voice, 326 00:19:20,810 --> 00:19:25,850 S1: Knowing and Being Known. So Pam, is this is finding 327 00:19:25,850 --> 00:19:31,730 S1: your voice and calling. Are those two things intertwined? Do 328 00:19:31,730 --> 00:19:32,210 S1: you think. 329 00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:38,550 S2: That's, um, you know, this is a very complex topic. 330 00:19:38,550 --> 00:19:40,670 S2: I have to say there's many layers. So there are 331 00:19:40,670 --> 00:19:44,470 S2: women who are finding who don't have a sense of 332 00:19:44,470 --> 00:19:48,270 S2: not being able to participate, um, freely in a church 333 00:19:48,430 --> 00:19:52,310 S2: or in ministry. And there are women who do, there 334 00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:56,470 S2: are opportunities, um, you know, that, that vary a lot. 335 00:19:56,510 --> 00:20:00,669 S2: But I think that, um, for ones who have been 336 00:20:00,670 --> 00:20:09,150 S2: in certain Christian subcultures that, um, have a, an expected 337 00:20:09,150 --> 00:20:13,950 S2: way to engage within their particular church that is set 338 00:20:13,950 --> 00:20:16,950 S2: and has been set in ways that women function in 339 00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:23,190 S2: very expected roles that very often, um, and they can feel, 340 00:20:23,230 --> 00:20:29,550 S2: I think, in ways that they can only speak what's expected. 341 00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:33,690 S2: And so this happens in many, many different areas to 342 00:20:33,730 --> 00:20:36,730 S2: not only the church, but in other places too. And 343 00:20:36,730 --> 00:20:41,650 S2: so I do think that as we understand our union 344 00:20:41,650 --> 00:20:45,810 S2: with Christ, our union within the body of Christ, and 345 00:20:45,810 --> 00:20:50,810 S2: the call that we have to speak the gospel, that 346 00:20:50,810 --> 00:20:55,450 S2: when we understand that and have confidence not in ourselves, 347 00:20:55,450 --> 00:20:59,170 S2: but in the spirit working in and through us, then 348 00:20:59,170 --> 00:21:03,450 S2: that can help us as we use who we are 349 00:21:03,970 --> 00:21:08,290 S2: and steward ourselves in the places where God invites us 350 00:21:08,330 --> 00:21:12,490 S2: and invites. Sometimes I get I don't want to use 351 00:21:12,490 --> 00:21:14,770 S2: that all the time, because he commands us more than 352 00:21:14,810 --> 00:21:15,610 S2: he invites. 353 00:21:15,609 --> 00:21:16,010 S3: Us. 354 00:21:16,210 --> 00:21:23,010 S2: But to obey us in places where he has put 355 00:21:23,010 --> 00:21:24,889 S2: us to do what he's called us to do. 356 00:21:25,130 --> 00:21:25,890 S3: Doctor Richter. 357 00:21:27,730 --> 00:21:33,200 S6: I just want to tag into what doctor McCray is saying. Systemic. Um, 358 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:37,760 S6: I'm I'm an ancient anthropologist, and that's one way you 359 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,600 S6: could describe what I do for a living. And reality 360 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:47,080 S6: is that women not being recognized as fully human is 361 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,200 S6: a part of human civilization. Going all the way back 362 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,679 S6: to Genesis three. Uh, this this isn't a new problem. 363 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,400 S6: But what is so miraculous about the New Covenant is 364 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,600 S6: that in the New Covenant, there is neither Jew nor Greek, 365 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,560 S6: slave nor free, male nor female. And the reality is 366 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,360 S6: that the Holy Spirit is the Lord of the church, 367 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,160 S6: and he's the one who gets to choose who gets 368 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,520 S6: what gifts. So I just want to fully support what 369 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,000 S6: both Trillia and Pam are saying, that the gifting that 370 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,880 S6: we've been given is a gifting that comes from the 371 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:28,080 S6: creator of the cosmos, and the strength that we need 372 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,219 S6: to pursue that calling also comes from the creator of 373 00:22:32,220 --> 00:22:36,220 S6: the cosmos. It's hard. It can be hard. It can 374 00:22:36,220 --> 00:22:39,220 S6: be scary. Sometimes it's not hard or scary. You know, 375 00:22:39,260 --> 00:22:43,139 S6: for certain individuals. But hey, it wasn't easy for Paul. 376 00:22:43,180 --> 00:22:46,300 S6: It wasn't easy for any of the disciples to follow 377 00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:49,020 S6: their callings. It's not necessarily going to be easy for 378 00:22:49,020 --> 00:22:53,780 S6: us either. But that, yes, that we offer the Holy Spirit, 379 00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:57,780 S6: that's that, you know, that's 90% of the gig because 380 00:22:58,180 --> 00:22:59,899 S6: he's going to take care of the rest of it. 381 00:23:00,300 --> 00:23:00,939 S3: I thought you. 382 00:23:00,980 --> 00:23:04,740 S1: Were being you were using self-deprecation when you called yourself 383 00:23:04,740 --> 00:23:09,100 S1: an ancient anthropologist. And now I realize you just describing 384 00:23:09,140 --> 00:23:13,020 S1: your field of study here because yeah, you told me 385 00:23:13,020 --> 00:23:15,780 S1: that you are the unique aspect of one of the 386 00:23:15,780 --> 00:23:20,300 S1: workshops you're going to do is your expertise in Israelite 387 00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:25,580 S1: livestock and economy. So I've got to know about that. 388 00:23:26,859 --> 00:23:33,920 S6: So my, um, my degree is Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations. 389 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,880 S6: I have a seminary degree in my undergrad was in ministry, 390 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,320 S6: but that's where the PhD comes from. So if you 391 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,760 S6: think about the task of interpretation of putting a passage 392 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:50,640 S6: in its context, right? Context, context, context. My PhD is 393 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:56,160 S6: putting the Old Testament in its context. So as we 394 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:03,879 S6: look at ancient Israel, they're a living, moving, breathing people group. And, 395 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,119 S6: you know, so often we wind up reducing them to 396 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,720 S6: flannelgraph figures, but they had a real economy. They had 397 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,600 S6: real jobs. And, uh, what I'll be doing in my 398 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:20,920 S6: workshop on sheep and shepherds is reanimating the metaphor because 399 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,399 S6: everyone in Israel knew what a shepherd was, what a 400 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,859 S6: shepherd did, what a good shepherd looked like, when a 401 00:24:27,859 --> 00:24:30,380 S6: bad shepherd looked like. They all knew it was like 402 00:24:30,380 --> 00:24:35,260 S6: to wrestle with a an incorrigible goat. I'm going to 403 00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:38,459 S6: guess that you know how that works, too. 404 00:24:38,700 --> 00:24:40,540 S1: Had one just last night. Yeah. 405 00:24:40,980 --> 00:24:46,419 S6: Yeah. So this business of studying the socio economic context 406 00:24:46,460 --> 00:24:51,899 S6: that produced the metaphors they lived by. Um, it's I 407 00:24:51,940 --> 00:24:53,060 S6: think it's wicked cool. 408 00:24:53,180 --> 00:24:56,419 S1: And okay, quick question for you then on that because 409 00:24:56,420 --> 00:24:58,939 S1: I got a minute before the break, but the around 410 00:24:58,940 --> 00:25:00,939 S1: Christmas time, we always stay in the shepherds and the 411 00:25:00,940 --> 00:25:02,939 S1: angels went to the shepherds and the shepherds were the 412 00:25:02,940 --> 00:25:05,379 S1: lowest of the low. They were the, you know, the 413 00:25:05,380 --> 00:25:08,820 S1: people that people looked down on and other people have said, no, 414 00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:11,100 S1: that's that's not true. What do you say? 415 00:25:12,540 --> 00:25:17,420 S6: Well, the word shepherd has been the icon of leader 416 00:25:17,460 --> 00:25:23,100 S6: since we had writing. So 1500 years before Abraham. So 417 00:25:23,100 --> 00:25:26,639 S6: the idea that shepherds lead and that sheep's sheep follow 418 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,359 S6: is is ancient and it's been used of kings and 419 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:35,680 S6: gods and and it's it's the hieroglyph in Egyptian. Um, 420 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,880 S6: so there's a lot of positive there. We can talk 421 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,800 S6: more about exactly who the shepherds were at the nativity. 422 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,040 S1: The called conference. Saturday, April 11th. All the information is 423 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:51,119 S1: right there at the website go to chris.org. Chris fabry.org. 424 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:05,760 S7: This is Chris Fabry. 425 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,160 S1: Live on Moody Radio and we're talking with three guests, 426 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:13,240 S1: Doctor Pam McCray, Doctor Sandra Richter, and Trillia Newbell, whom 427 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,200 S1: you hear on Saturday mornings here on Moody Radio. We're 428 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,480 S1: talking about the called conference equipping women in Ministry leadership 429 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:25,310 S1: happens April 11th. We've got a link@chris.org. And if you say, well, 430 00:26:25,310 --> 00:26:28,870 S1: I can't go to Chicago in April, boy howdy, you 431 00:26:28,910 --> 00:26:32,870 S1: can online and maybe you could do it individually. Maybe 432 00:26:33,070 --> 00:26:37,230 S1: your small group wants to get together and experience this together, 433 00:26:37,230 --> 00:26:40,150 S1: or a larger group in your church. All the information 434 00:26:40,150 --> 00:26:44,389 S1: is right there. Chris Fabry live dot. I put a question, 435 00:26:44,390 --> 00:26:47,830 S1: real simple question up on Facebook today and I want 436 00:26:47,869 --> 00:26:51,109 S1: to read that. What woman in ministry has encouraged you 437 00:26:51,109 --> 00:26:55,310 S1: the most? And anybody could answer this male or female. 438 00:26:55,310 --> 00:26:58,430 S1: What woman in ministry has encouraged you the most? Here 439 00:26:58,430 --> 00:27:02,030 S1: are a few of the answers. Corrie ten boom. Nancy 440 00:27:02,070 --> 00:27:08,470 S1: DeMoss Wolgemuth Elizabeth Elliot. Jason said my wife, who shared 441 00:27:08,470 --> 00:27:11,990 S1: the gospel with a squirrely young man who didn't know Jesus, 442 00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:17,390 S1: I like that. Um let's see. Joni Erickson Tada! Beth 443 00:27:17,430 --> 00:27:21,310 S1: Moore's answer answer mentioned here a couple of times. Kathy 444 00:27:21,310 --> 00:27:26,290 S1: says Anne Graham Lotz um, Susie Larson. Thank you, Lori, 445 00:27:26,290 --> 00:27:28,250 S1: for saying that. And there are 50 some so I 446 00:27:28,250 --> 00:27:30,810 S1: can't read all of them, but but some of them 447 00:27:30,810 --> 00:27:34,730 S1: are people whose I've never seen their name before, because 448 00:27:34,730 --> 00:27:38,250 S1: it's just a woman in ministry who had a big 449 00:27:38,250 --> 00:27:41,890 S1: impact on that person at a local level and not 450 00:27:41,890 --> 00:27:47,010 S1: a national level. And that is, uh, doctor McCray, that 451 00:27:47,010 --> 00:27:51,050 S1: is what you're going for. You're not going for necessarily. 452 00:27:51,050 --> 00:27:55,330 S1: You need to have a great upfront national international ministry. 453 00:27:55,690 --> 00:27:58,010 S1: You can have a one on one or a small 454 00:27:58,010 --> 00:28:01,730 S1: group or whatever that leadership looks like, right? 455 00:28:01,850 --> 00:28:07,090 S2: Yeah. We sometimes say leader and have this picture of, um, 456 00:28:07,130 --> 00:28:11,129 S2: a wide scope of influence, but the called conference has 457 00:28:11,130 --> 00:28:15,330 S2: always been designed and our, our hope is that women 458 00:28:15,330 --> 00:28:18,410 S2: who are serving in ministry leadership or who are preparing 459 00:28:18,450 --> 00:28:22,830 S2: to and are serving in a variety of ways and 460 00:28:23,350 --> 00:28:27,310 S2: a lot are ministry to women leaders in churches or 461 00:28:27,310 --> 00:28:31,869 S2: ministry leaders are involved in other ministries, in the church, within, 462 00:28:31,869 --> 00:28:35,510 S2: within the church, in different areas. And so we encourage 463 00:28:35,510 --> 00:28:41,430 S2: them with rich biblical and theological teaching and then real 464 00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:47,750 S2: practical methodology skills. And so, um, you know, we're not 465 00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:50,470 S2: going for the big platform necessarily. 466 00:28:50,510 --> 00:28:51,830 S8: What does that mean though? What does that. 467 00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:53,910 S1: Mean? If I go and I'm not going to go 468 00:28:53,910 --> 00:28:57,110 S1: because it's for women, but if I were to attend 469 00:28:57,390 --> 00:29:01,470 S1: the methodology and the practical skills, like if I feel 470 00:29:01,470 --> 00:29:04,709 S1: like I'd like to lead a small group Bible study, 471 00:29:04,750 --> 00:29:06,990 S1: you know, and I feel like God is stirring me 472 00:29:06,990 --> 00:29:09,030 S1: and I've got some women that I, you know, I 473 00:29:09,030 --> 00:29:12,070 S1: think would really fit in here. But what if, what 474 00:29:12,070 --> 00:29:14,470 S1: if somebody asks a question and I don't know the 475 00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:17,710 S1: answer to it? And what if they what, what if 476 00:29:17,710 --> 00:29:20,310 S1: there's a conflict that comes up and I, you know, 477 00:29:20,350 --> 00:29:23,170 S1: I start thinking about myself. Pam, what do you say 478 00:29:23,170 --> 00:29:23,970 S1: to that person? 479 00:29:24,090 --> 00:29:28,090 S2: Well, we have 12 workshops that we offer, so we're 480 00:29:28,090 --> 00:29:32,090 S2: talking now to Trulia and Doctor Richter who are, um, 481 00:29:32,170 --> 00:29:37,490 S2: keynote speakers. Um, and also workshop leaders. But I have, um, 482 00:29:38,130 --> 00:29:42,290 S2: here's a couple of the workshops. One is how we can, um, 483 00:29:42,530 --> 00:29:48,330 S2: spiritually mentor women, um, in, in ways that, you know, 484 00:29:48,370 --> 00:29:52,770 S2: we have the, the relationships that we help with basic, um, 485 00:29:52,770 --> 00:29:57,730 S2: helping skills, um, and basic counseling skills to help the, 486 00:29:57,810 --> 00:30:00,690 S2: the heart of the woman who is helping women who 487 00:30:00,730 --> 00:30:06,090 S2: are hurting, um, developing discipleship pathways with purpose, helping women 488 00:30:06,090 --> 00:30:09,250 S2: learn how to serve, grow and lead, equipping the saints 489 00:30:09,250 --> 00:30:14,930 S2: to mobilize others to serve others. And, um, um, Turley 490 00:30:14,930 --> 00:30:17,650 S2: is doing one on writing, um, Bible study, which I 491 00:30:17,650 --> 00:30:21,510 S2: think is very, very practical. um. Christie Spader is a 492 00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:24,350 S2: ministry to women leader in Chicagoland who is a ministry 493 00:30:24,350 --> 00:30:29,910 S2: to women. A graduate parenthetically, um, who, uh, says three 494 00:30:29,910 --> 00:30:33,190 S2: mistakes I've made ministering to women. And she does a 495 00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:37,950 S2: marvelous job of looking at a theological perspective of who 496 00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:43,830 S2: women are and why. Women who are doing ministry to 497 00:30:43,870 --> 00:30:49,750 S2: women have to understand, um, very deeply who women are 498 00:30:50,070 --> 00:30:51,830 S2: before they can really help them. 499 00:30:52,110 --> 00:30:55,950 S4: Um, Pam, just real quick. Yeah, she was on, she 500 00:30:55,950 --> 00:30:58,790 S4: was on living by Faith last week. And so yes, 501 00:30:58,790 --> 00:31:02,350 S4: so got a great, had a great conversation with her. 502 00:31:02,350 --> 00:31:05,870 S4: And yeah, I, so I, I, I'm really grateful that 503 00:31:05,870 --> 00:31:08,190 S4: she's getting to be a part. She's carry on. 504 00:31:08,590 --> 00:31:11,790 S2: Yeah. She's just theologically nuanced, her topic in a way 505 00:31:11,790 --> 00:31:13,630 S2: that's really compelling and. 506 00:31:13,630 --> 00:31:16,630 S1: Ask you to do this since you're writing about Bible studies, 507 00:31:16,670 --> 00:31:18,489 S1: what do you say to the woman who says, I 508 00:31:18,530 --> 00:31:20,770 S1: don't feel like I don't have the chops. You know, 509 00:31:20,810 --> 00:31:22,890 S1: I know somebody's going to ask a question I don't 510 00:31:22,890 --> 00:31:24,930 S1: know the answer to. What do you say to that person? 511 00:31:25,770 --> 00:31:29,010 S4: I would say, yep, that's pretty much right. And we 512 00:31:29,010 --> 00:31:31,890 S4: aren't going to lead a Bible study and have all 513 00:31:31,890 --> 00:31:35,050 S4: the answers. We we just won't. And so that is 514 00:31:35,050 --> 00:31:39,450 S4: one of the beauties or beautiful things about doing Bible 515 00:31:39,450 --> 00:31:42,890 S4: study and community. And so another thing is, is that 516 00:31:42,890 --> 00:31:45,370 S4: you are not going to or you shouldn't do it 517 00:31:45,370 --> 00:31:47,890 S4: in a bubble. You're going to have other resources to 518 00:31:47,930 --> 00:31:51,610 S4: glean from. But I'm, I'm also a parent and I 519 00:31:51,610 --> 00:31:54,290 S4: have to tell my kids, I don't know all the time. 520 00:31:54,410 --> 00:31:56,330 S4: So what do you do in that situation where you 521 00:31:56,330 --> 00:31:59,370 S4: go and find out. So I would just encourage her. 522 00:31:59,530 --> 00:32:04,489 S4: There isn't anyone I know or there shouldn't be, but 523 00:32:04,490 --> 00:32:09,050 S4: there really isn't anyone that I know who leads Bible studies, 524 00:32:09,410 --> 00:32:13,730 S4: who teaches God's Word and says that they know everything, 525 00:32:13,730 --> 00:32:17,280 S4: that they they have all the answers. And so what 526 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,440 S4: you could be very encouraged that you are among people 527 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,280 S4: who were all running in the same race. And we 528 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:31,200 S4: all need to reference other experts. And, um, so yeah, so, 529 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,080 S4: so I would encourage her, praise God that you are 530 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,040 S4: digging in God's Word and know that you are not 531 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,880 S4: alone and we will not know everything until we see 532 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,120 S4: Jesus face to face. Yes. And so that that's a 533 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,840 S4: actually really humble place to be in. It's a good 534 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:47,680 S4: place to be in. 535 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,800 S1: Okay. And I didn't ask you to answer that question, though, 536 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,000 S1: that I asked our listeners name a woman in ministry 537 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,920 S1: and I want to go to you, Doctor Richter, because 538 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,640 S1: I mentioned in the break that we were going to 539 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,040 S1: do this, and you have an interesting answer. How would 540 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,040 S1: you answer that? What woman in ministry has influenced you? 541 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,720 S6: Yeah. And I feel a little badly about this answer. 542 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:14,480 S6: But honestly, there there were no women in the spaces 543 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,740 S6: that I felt called to when I was starting out. 544 00:33:18,780 --> 00:33:23,700 S6: And in fact, um, every stage along the journey, I 545 00:33:23,700 --> 00:33:29,860 S6: was typically the only woman in the room. So my heroes, uh, 546 00:33:30,900 --> 00:33:35,420 S6: obviously a lot of them are biblical. And hey, team, the, 547 00:33:35,420 --> 00:33:38,900 S6: the male characters in the Bible are supposed to be 548 00:33:38,940 --> 00:33:43,020 S6: our heroes just as much as the female characters. You know, 549 00:33:43,060 --> 00:33:45,860 S6: it's not like Esther belongs to the women and everyone 550 00:33:45,860 --> 00:33:51,740 S6: else belongs to the men. Um, so those those characters 551 00:33:51,740 --> 00:33:55,820 S6: as real people who and this is one of my triads, 552 00:33:55,820 --> 00:33:58,980 S6: real people who lived in real places and struggled with 553 00:33:58,980 --> 00:34:02,980 S6: real faith. I mean, every leader in the biblical narrative 554 00:34:03,380 --> 00:34:07,540 S6: struggles with their own insecurities, their own failures, the boundaries 555 00:34:07,540 --> 00:34:13,860 S6: of their own talent and capacity. Everyone does. And it's 556 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,680 S6: in pressing into those spaces, giving God that. Yes, that 557 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:24,720 S6: he proves that in our weakness he is strong. So. 558 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,520 S1: Julio, how do you answer that question? A woman that 559 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:29,280 S1: affected you. 560 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,200 S4: Yeah, I had a lot of women, but they they 561 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:38,799 S4: weren't teaching me how to do vocational ministry or vocational work, 562 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,480 S4: which I've done, I've done. And I am in, um, 563 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:47,239 S4: I lead, uh, at our publishing house. I've led, I speak, 564 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,360 S4: but they were just teaching me how to be faithful 565 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,960 S4: to share the gospel and faithful to minister right where 566 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,200 S4: you are. I will remember, um, this woman who I 567 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,160 S4: love so much when I first became a Christian and 568 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,920 S4: I wanted discipleship. Well, she was raising six children and homeschooling, 569 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,120 S4: and she would just invite me to her home with 570 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,759 S4: her crazy going all over. I mean, there was a 571 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,060 S4: mess everywhere. And, and we would cook and talking. And 572 00:35:14,060 --> 00:35:18,020 S4: so I was learning from her, learning about life, learning 573 00:35:18,020 --> 00:35:22,060 S4: about and ultimately also about ministry and ministering to others 574 00:35:22,060 --> 00:35:25,820 S4: and serving others. But it wasn't vocational and it wasn't, 575 00:35:25,860 --> 00:35:29,620 S4: it didn't look like what I'm doing now. But boy, 576 00:35:29,620 --> 00:35:34,259 S4: does she still encourage me. And so, and both theoretically 577 00:35:34,260 --> 00:35:37,100 S4: she does. But also she, she'll text me every now 578 00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:40,100 S4: and then and encourage my heart. So, so I think 579 00:35:40,140 --> 00:35:44,780 S4: that and that's I know that there is a push 580 00:35:44,820 --> 00:35:50,740 S4: against women doing. I feel like I'll say it this way. 581 00:35:51,060 --> 00:35:56,180 S4: There has been a push against women doing things like 582 00:35:56,180 --> 00:36:00,300 S4: children's ministry or because they feel like they are always 583 00:36:00,540 --> 00:36:03,899 S4: kind of pigeonholed there. Um, I will just say that 584 00:36:03,900 --> 00:36:10,380 S4: there are there are so many women who are faithfully 585 00:36:10,380 --> 00:36:12,839 S4: serving in those areas, and I wouldn't want them to 586 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,439 S4: withdraw or feel lesser than. Yes, because they're not on 587 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,280 S4: a big stage or because they don't. And I, I'm 588 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,279 S4: speaking as someone who's been on big stages as doing 589 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,600 S4: all of those things. Um, so, so there's a place 590 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,640 S4: for all of us and I want that would be 591 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,200 S4: something that I would just want to encourage the woman 592 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,040 S4: who maybe you are looking and you're thinking about the 593 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,440 S4: Beth Moore's, who is a friend of mine and I 594 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,400 S4: love and you're like, but, but I'm never going to 595 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,879 S4: be a Beth Moore and you're no, you're not. But 596 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,120 S4: that's okay. You can you can learn from her. You 597 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:49,400 S4: can grow into maybe even maybe one day you will 598 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,759 S4: be on a big stage. But maybe the Lord has 599 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,279 S4: you faithfully where you are and he can use you 600 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,560 S4: to to minister to the next Beth Moore and I. 601 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,520 S4: So that has been my experience has been I have 602 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:06,080 S4: been so blessed to have women who have poured into me, 603 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:11,100 S4: but they have not all been leaders And and I 604 00:37:11,140 --> 00:37:13,500 S4: now do have a community of leaders that I'm so 605 00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:14,180 S4: grateful for. 606 00:37:14,860 --> 00:37:18,940 S1: And that is why Pam, the called conference is is 607 00:37:18,940 --> 00:37:21,420 S1: happening to, to foster some of that and some of 608 00:37:21,460 --> 00:37:24,180 S1: that excitement that I'm hearing from all three of you 609 00:37:24,660 --> 00:37:27,340 S1: is going to happen on April 11th. Pam, before I 610 00:37:27,340 --> 00:37:29,379 S1: take a break, why don't you answer that question? What 611 00:37:29,420 --> 00:37:31,420 S1: woman in ministry has encouraged you? 612 00:37:32,219 --> 00:37:35,259 S2: Um, well, when you asked that question, I thought of 613 00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:37,940 S2: a couple different and and one is, um, you know, 614 00:37:37,980 --> 00:37:40,339 S2: I've been a professor at Moody for 21 years, but 615 00:37:40,340 --> 00:37:42,860 S2: before that I did conferences for women around the country 616 00:37:42,860 --> 00:37:46,419 S2: for Moody. And so I was blessed with so many 617 00:37:46,420 --> 00:37:48,940 S2: women and one that I love so dearly that really 618 00:37:48,940 --> 00:37:52,700 S2: impacted my life was Jill Briscoe. And so she, you know, 619 00:37:52,739 --> 00:37:56,060 S2: as far as I am concerned, you know, walks on 620 00:37:56,060 --> 00:38:01,219 S2: water in my mind. Um, and so that's a precious, 621 00:38:01,219 --> 00:38:04,939 S2: precious woman in my life, but one that really, I 622 00:38:04,940 --> 00:38:09,850 S2: say overall impacted me deeply, deeply as a woman Again, 623 00:38:09,850 --> 00:38:12,410 S2: no platform. She was a woman. That was in our 624 00:38:12,410 --> 00:38:15,290 S2: ministry when my husband was on staff at a church 625 00:38:15,290 --> 00:38:18,730 S2: in Florida, and her name was Pam Karimb, and she 626 00:38:18,770 --> 00:38:23,290 S2: would be she welcomed about a hundred college and career 627 00:38:24,050 --> 00:38:29,450 S2: people into her house every Friday, made a homemade amazing meal, 628 00:38:29,770 --> 00:38:33,969 S2: and she cooked and served. And. My husband taught the 629 00:38:33,969 --> 00:38:38,370 S2: Bible study. And every woman, every, every. It wasn't a 630 00:38:38,370 --> 00:38:40,690 S2: women's Bible study, but every person that came into her 631 00:38:40,690 --> 00:38:47,450 S2: home was greeted with a loud and strong, um, greeting 632 00:38:47,450 --> 00:38:50,370 S2: and a hug and a kiss and welcomed in. When 633 00:38:50,370 --> 00:38:52,610 S2: they left, it was a hug and a kiss. She 634 00:38:52,610 --> 00:38:56,770 S2: knew everybody about everybody's life and she loved everybody effusively. 635 00:38:56,969 --> 00:38:59,250 S2: And I would say that Pam Karen was the one 636 00:38:59,250 --> 00:39:03,090 S2: that was influenced, influenced me most in ministry. 637 00:39:03,690 --> 00:39:06,610 S1: Do you want to make that kind of difference in 638 00:39:06,650 --> 00:39:09,430 S1: the lives of people around you. That's what the called 639 00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:13,109 S1: conference is about. It's going on April 11th and you 640 00:39:13,110 --> 00:39:18,150 S1: can find out more about it@kris.org. Equipping women in ministry 641 00:39:18,150 --> 00:39:24,149 S1: leadership and entrusted with the gospel is the theme. And 642 00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:28,109 S1: if you go to kris.org, you can see how to 643 00:39:28,150 --> 00:39:30,669 S1: be there in person or how to sign up and 644 00:39:30,670 --> 00:39:38,230 S1: participate online. Again, go to kris.org. Doctor Kris Fabry, Livorno 645 00:39:39,150 --> 00:39:43,910 S1: doctors Pam McCrea, Sandra Richter, and Trillia Newbell back with 646 00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:55,109 S1: them straight ahead. I hope you're catching some of the 647 00:39:55,110 --> 00:39:57,950 S1: excitement that we have about the call conference coming up 648 00:39:57,950 --> 00:40:03,470 S1: April 11th at Moody Bible Institute in Chicago or online. 649 00:40:03,469 --> 00:40:05,629 S1: You can sign up for the live stream. We have 650 00:40:05,630 --> 00:40:10,930 S1: all the information right there at Chris dot Chris Fabry live.org. 651 00:40:11,610 --> 00:40:14,290 S1: I love what Doctor Richter said about, you know, Esther 652 00:40:14,290 --> 00:40:18,570 S1: is not just for women. Ruth is not just for women. Uh, 653 00:40:18,570 --> 00:40:20,850 S1: and I feel like this question that I asked, what 654 00:40:20,850 --> 00:40:23,690 S1: woman in ministry has encouraged you the most? This is 655 00:40:23,690 --> 00:40:27,209 S1: for men, too, because the first person that popped into 656 00:40:27,250 --> 00:40:30,049 S1: my head was I was in high school. I was 657 00:40:30,050 --> 00:40:31,489 S1: going to a little. I think it was the only 658 00:40:31,489 --> 00:40:34,770 S1: evangelical free church in the state of West Virginia. And 659 00:40:34,770 --> 00:40:40,570 S1: Jean DeVos taught nursing at Marshall University, and she taught 660 00:40:40,570 --> 00:40:43,890 S1: the high school. There were probably 6 or 7 of 661 00:40:43,890 --> 00:40:47,810 S1: us in that class, and we went through the book 662 00:40:47,810 --> 00:40:50,450 S1: of Ephesians with this little I can still see the 663 00:40:50,450 --> 00:40:54,010 S1: little green book. And we got to Ephesians one about 664 00:40:54,010 --> 00:40:57,210 S1: all of the things that are true about you when 665 00:40:57,210 --> 00:41:01,570 S1: you are in Christ. And there was she was so 666 00:41:01,610 --> 00:41:04,609 S1: animated about this, and it's partly because she knew how 667 00:41:04,610 --> 00:41:06,870 S1: to teach. You know, she teaches at the college level 668 00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:09,270 S1: and she's a smart cookie and she knows all of this. 669 00:41:09,430 --> 00:41:12,870 S1: But there was something about the passion that she had 670 00:41:13,230 --> 00:41:16,549 S1: as we got into the word and the truth of it, 671 00:41:16,550 --> 00:41:20,550 S1: as she gave it out that I caught, I caught 672 00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:23,310 S1: it from her. And I don't know that there was 673 00:41:23,310 --> 00:41:25,350 S1: anybody else in that church who could have done it 674 00:41:25,350 --> 00:41:28,150 S1: the same way that she did. So that's my answer 675 00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:31,270 S1: to the woman in ministry. Sandra, pick up from there. 676 00:41:32,430 --> 00:41:37,190 S6: I, I love that story. And I anticipate that that 677 00:41:37,190 --> 00:41:40,870 S6: story is getting reiterated all the way across the globe 678 00:41:41,350 --> 00:41:46,149 S6: that people have taken the spot that's open the door 679 00:41:46,190 --> 00:41:50,110 S6: that's open and have chosen to stand in that space 680 00:41:50,110 --> 00:41:54,150 S6: in a faithful way. And the fact that there were 681 00:41:54,150 --> 00:41:59,070 S6: seven whole people in that high school class, and look 682 00:41:59,110 --> 00:42:02,589 S6: at the seed that was planted in your life. You 683 00:42:02,590 --> 00:42:05,770 S6: know the question you asked me earlier, Chris, about a 684 00:42:05,810 --> 00:42:09,129 S6: woman who stood as an example, and I, I said 685 00:42:09,130 --> 00:42:13,009 S6: there really wasn't anyone ahead of me. Um, but I've 686 00:42:13,010 --> 00:42:19,290 S6: been sitting here pondering my response in 26 years in 687 00:42:19,290 --> 00:42:21,890 S6: the classroom at this point in time, and about ten 688 00:42:21,930 --> 00:42:26,169 S6: in ministry before that. I think the women, the women 689 00:42:26,170 --> 00:42:30,489 S6: who have inspired me most have been watching my students, 690 00:42:30,489 --> 00:42:35,770 S6: my youth group members find their own calling, say yes 691 00:42:35,770 --> 00:42:39,049 S6: to the Holy Spirit, take the risk and step forward. 692 00:42:39,489 --> 00:42:45,129 S6: It is. It is like Christmas morning. Every time I 693 00:42:45,130 --> 00:42:49,649 S6: see someone, I've had the privilege of training grab hold 694 00:42:49,650 --> 00:42:52,610 S6: of that calling and move forward. So thanks for sharing 695 00:42:52,610 --> 00:42:53,090 S6: your story. 696 00:42:53,130 --> 00:42:54,730 S1: Yeah. Trillia what do you say? 697 00:42:55,650 --> 00:42:59,290 S4: Well, I was, I was just actually thinking about all 698 00:42:59,290 --> 00:43:04,509 S4: of the women. um, in the Bible that we have 699 00:43:04,510 --> 00:43:08,190 S4: touched on and something that we just haven't said is 700 00:43:08,190 --> 00:43:13,190 S4: how valuable God sees us. I mean, just that he 701 00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:19,550 S4: would value women and, and put it in the sacred text. 702 00:43:19,550 --> 00:43:22,470 S4: I just that's what I've been thinking actually is so, 703 00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:26,150 S4: so our value and our worth, they don't come in our, in, 704 00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:28,549 S4: in anything that we do. It comes from God. And 705 00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:31,670 S4: he's given us value and worth and identity. And, and 706 00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:34,029 S4: then I was thinking about Eunice. Is it Eunice and 707 00:43:34,030 --> 00:43:40,910 S4: Lois Timothy's. Yeah. Like how the gospel we can affect 708 00:43:42,270 --> 00:43:45,989 S4: hundreds of thousands of people through the gospel and proclaiming 709 00:43:45,989 --> 00:43:51,190 S4: the gospel and people we will never see. And, and just, um, 710 00:43:51,350 --> 00:43:53,549 S4: so I those were the two things that I was 711 00:43:53,550 --> 00:43:55,550 S4: thinking as you were talking. I was just thinking, yes, 712 00:43:55,550 --> 00:43:59,550 S4: there's a legacy of faith there because one person was 713 00:43:59,550 --> 00:44:03,739 S4: faithful and shared and talked and taught. And if we 714 00:44:03,739 --> 00:44:06,580 S4: could be faithful in whatever God calls us to, but 715 00:44:06,620 --> 00:44:10,140 S4: he has called all of us to go and make disciples. 716 00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:13,740 S4: And that's our that is our calling. Um, that we 717 00:44:13,780 --> 00:44:17,060 S4: can how, how the Lord will use it. So I 718 00:44:17,100 --> 00:44:21,900 S4: do pray that um, every woman listening and every woman 719 00:44:21,900 --> 00:44:26,060 S4: who comes to call will leave knowing their value is 720 00:44:26,060 --> 00:44:30,700 S4: from God, their worth is from God. And that we 721 00:44:30,700 --> 00:44:34,140 S4: all have that calling to go and make disciples, share 722 00:44:34,140 --> 00:44:37,060 S4: the gospel, teaching people to obey all that God has 723 00:44:37,060 --> 00:44:41,500 S4: commanded and um, and that he will be with us 724 00:44:42,300 --> 00:44:43,780 S4: when we as we do it. 725 00:44:43,900 --> 00:44:45,820 S1: Doctor Baker, last word to you. 726 00:44:45,820 --> 00:44:48,660 S2: Oh, I tell you, I was thinking about women that 727 00:44:48,660 --> 00:44:51,540 S2: influenced my life and, and when I. And so what 728 00:44:51,540 --> 00:44:55,660 S2: I thought of was all the women in Scripture that 729 00:44:55,660 --> 00:44:59,339 S2: I feel like I know. So I think probably all 730 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,320 S2: of us on the screen have taught about women in 731 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:06,279 S2: the Bible over and over and over again. And I, 732 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:11,560 S2: in fact, did Doctor Richter's Richter's study on Deborah. Oh 733 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:18,000 S2: my word, that's amazing and deep and amazing. And so 734 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,839 S2: by the time we all have taught on women in 735 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:25,360 S2: the Bible, so often we, I feel like I know them. 736 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:29,040 S2: I feel like we're friends. I feel like almost every 737 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,120 S2: single one of them, when I teach them or have 738 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,640 S2: somebody else in my classes teach on them, I go, oh. Oh, 739 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,319 S2: she's my favorite. Oh, she's my favorite. Oh my, you know, I, oh, 740 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,440 S2: I think she's my favorite. And, and, and I love 741 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:46,279 S2: how when we study God's word, when we really marinate 742 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,640 S2: in the lives of the people in Scripture that God 743 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:53,279 S2: uses and who God speaks through. Um, you know what? 744 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,120 S2: It excites us too, because we know how he does it. 745 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,540 S1: And let's be those, kinds of people today. You know, 746 00:45:59,580 --> 00:46:03,060 S1: he's not done. He wasn't done with Esther and Ruth 747 00:46:03,060 --> 00:46:06,700 S1: and Naomi. He's he's working today. And that's one of 748 00:46:06,700 --> 00:46:09,859 S1: the reasons why I'm excited about the called conference and 749 00:46:09,860 --> 00:46:12,900 S1: what's going to come out of that in your heart 750 00:46:13,060 --> 00:46:15,540 S1: as you participate, whether you're in person or you do 751 00:46:15,540 --> 00:46:19,060 S1: the live stream? We have the link at Chris dot 752 00:46:20,020 --> 00:46:23,620 S1: Chris dot o r g. Click through today's information. You'll 753 00:46:23,620 --> 00:46:26,980 S1: see more about Doctor Pam McCray trillion New Bell. Listen 754 00:46:26,980 --> 00:46:30,180 S1: to her program tomorrow by the way. And Doctor Sandra Richter, 755 00:46:30,340 --> 00:46:31,900 S1: we're going to have to have you back on to 756 00:46:31,940 --> 00:46:35,860 S1: talk about the Epic of Eden, a Christian entry into 757 00:46:35,860 --> 00:46:39,740 S1: the Old Testament, which I hear is excellent. And thank 758 00:46:39,739 --> 00:46:42,900 S1: you all three for joining us here today. Again, the 759 00:46:42,900 --> 00:46:47,660 S1: called conference. Find out@kris.org. Our program is a production of 760 00:46:47,700 --> 00:46:51,739 S1: Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.