1 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:12,119 S1: Shepherding. It's the single most important image of servant leadership 2 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,520 S1: in the Bible, from shepherds like Moses and David to 3 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:20,480 S1: pastors today who shepherd their flocks spiritually. Biblical leadership is crucial. 4 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,320 S1: But what does a good shepherd even look like? How 5 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,120 S1: does he or she lead? Well, in just a few minutes, 6 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,960 S1: insights about the good Shepherd from a man who spent 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,120 S1: months among shepherds in the Middle East. Join us now 8 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,440 S1: for the land and the book. It's the one hour 9 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,680 S1: program that makes you feel like you're actually traveling throughout 10 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,640 S1: the Middle East. Our host, doctor Charlie Dyer. And I'm 11 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:42,959 S1: John Gager. Trusting your day's going well. Charlie. 12 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,040 S2: John, it's going great. And thank you for asking. 13 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,240 S1: Well, Charlie, soon everybody's going to be celebrating Good Friday 14 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,160 S1: and Resurrection Sunday and remembering the words from the Last Supper. 15 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,920 S1: In the same way Jesus took the cup after supper, saying, 16 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,270 S1: this cup is the new covenant in my blood. Well, 17 00:01:00,270 --> 00:01:03,870 S1: did you know that the Last Supper was a Passover Seder? 18 00:01:04,069 --> 00:01:06,550 S1: And that cup is believed to be the third cup 19 00:01:06,550 --> 00:01:10,470 S1: in the Passover service. There's just so much depth and 20 00:01:10,510 --> 00:01:13,589 S1: understanding to be gained when we view the Last Supper 21 00:01:13,590 --> 00:01:14,990 S1: as a Passover Seder. 22 00:01:15,550 --> 00:01:18,470 S2: That's absolutely right, John. For this reason, our friends at 23 00:01:18,470 --> 00:01:21,470 S2: Life in Messiah are offering to mail you a free 24 00:01:21,470 --> 00:01:25,350 S2: copy of their Messianic Passover Haggadah. The booklet will lead 25 00:01:25,350 --> 00:01:28,230 S2: you through the celebration of Passover to see the rich 26 00:01:28,230 --> 00:01:32,550 S2: connections to Jesus, our Messiah and Savior. You'll also receive 27 00:01:32,590 --> 00:01:35,910 S2: a link for an interactive Passover Seder video with the 28 00:01:35,910 --> 00:01:39,589 S2: Haggadah and video. You can celebrate Passover this year with 29 00:01:39,590 --> 00:01:42,750 S2: your family and friends. Now to get this free offer, 30 00:01:42,750 --> 00:01:45,670 S2: just go to Life in Messiah org and click on 31 00:01:45,670 --> 00:01:48,230 S2: the radio button there to find out more and to 32 00:01:48,270 --> 00:01:51,510 S2: request your copy. That's life in Messiah. 33 00:01:52,790 --> 00:01:55,309 S1: If you're new to the program, this opening segment walks 34 00:01:55,310 --> 00:01:57,750 S1: us through a bunch of stories, all of which are 35 00:01:57,750 --> 00:01:59,940 S1: anchored in the Middle East. So we'll do our best 36 00:01:59,940 --> 00:02:01,740 S1: to bring you up to date on current events, as 37 00:02:01,740 --> 00:02:05,100 S1: we do every week. The buildup of U.S. forces in 38 00:02:05,100 --> 00:02:07,980 S1: the Middle East is now at its highest level since 39 00:02:07,980 --> 00:02:11,580 S1: the invasion of Iraq back in 2003. Is a conflict 40 00:02:11,580 --> 00:02:16,180 S1: with Iran inevitable, or can the situation still be resolved peacefully. 41 00:02:16,540 --> 00:02:19,340 S2: As we record this program for the weekend? John. The 42 00:02:19,340 --> 00:02:22,900 S2: situation is still so fluid that an attack could start 43 00:02:22,900 --> 00:02:25,780 S2: between the time we record and the time the program 44 00:02:25,780 --> 00:02:29,660 S2: actually airs. In spite of all the pundits and prognosticators 45 00:02:29,660 --> 00:02:32,220 S2: out there, the only one who really knows what's going 46 00:02:32,220 --> 00:02:35,780 S2: to happen apart from God, of course, is President Trump. 47 00:02:36,060 --> 00:02:39,300 S2: Iran continues to say a nuclear deal is within reach 48 00:02:39,340 --> 00:02:43,580 S2: as long as diplomacy is prioritized. Those statements are designed 49 00:02:43,580 --> 00:02:46,820 S2: to put pressure on President Trump not to move forward 50 00:02:46,820 --> 00:02:50,300 S2: with a strike. Even as Iran offers hope, it still 51 00:02:50,300 --> 00:02:54,820 S2: refuses to give up enriching nuclear fuel or its missile program, 52 00:02:54,820 --> 00:02:58,450 S2: or its support for global terrorism. It just entered into 53 00:02:58,490 --> 00:03:01,730 S2: deals with China and Russia to purchase advanced weapons to 54 00:03:01,770 --> 00:03:05,850 S2: defend against an attack. They don't yet have those weapons, 55 00:03:05,850 --> 00:03:08,050 S2: but it's only a matter of time until they will. 56 00:03:08,490 --> 00:03:11,690 S2: The current talks seem like an attempt to stall and 57 00:03:11,690 --> 00:03:15,970 S2: increase pressure on the US, while buying time to defend themselves. 58 00:03:16,169 --> 00:03:19,370 S2: Part of the problem facing President Trump is deciding on 59 00:03:19,370 --> 00:03:22,210 S2: the strategic goals for any attack. Is the goal to 60 00:03:22,250 --> 00:03:26,850 S2: eliminate Iran's nuclear program or its stockpile of missiles, or 61 00:03:26,850 --> 00:03:30,130 S2: to weaken the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, or to bring 62 00:03:30,130 --> 00:03:34,570 S2: about a regime change by eliminating Iran's leadership? Some goals 63 00:03:34,570 --> 00:03:38,730 S2: can be achieved with air power. Others might require ground forces, 64 00:03:38,730 --> 00:03:42,890 S2: which would result in American casualties. And at least right now, 65 00:03:43,090 --> 00:03:45,530 S2: we've not built up the level of troops that would 66 00:03:45,530 --> 00:03:48,130 S2: be needed for some of those goals. The fact that 67 00:03:48,170 --> 00:03:51,530 S2: Iran hasn't agreed to back away from its nuclear program, 68 00:03:51,530 --> 00:03:55,490 S2: missile program, or support for terror seems to suggest they 69 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,040 S2: believe the US can't eliminate them with air power alone, 70 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,720 S2: and they don't believe President Trump is willing to commit 71 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,720 S2: to a ground campaign if the US attacks, Iran will 72 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,160 S2: suffer damage. But they believe the regime can still survive, 73 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,520 S2: and by remaining in power, they'll have essentially won. The 74 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,400 S2: fact the US has committed so much military hardware to 75 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,960 S2: the Middle East right now suggests President Trump will need 76 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,720 S2: to follow through with his threat, or else be charged 77 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,800 S2: with backing down in the face of Iranian resistance. Now, 78 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,440 S2: Iran could surprise everyone by folding its tent and accepting 79 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:35,640 S2: all of Washington's demands, but that doesn't seem very likely. So, sadly, 80 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,920 S2: the question right now might not be if there will 81 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,320 S2: be a war, but when that war will begin and 82 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:43,800 S2: how long it might last. 83 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,200 S1: Yeah, boy, a situation that's very much fluid right now, 84 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,560 S1: as you say, Charlie. Well, nine days ago, President Trump's 85 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,440 S1: Board of Peace held its inaugural summit on Gaza with 86 00:04:54,540 --> 00:04:58,900 S1: representatives from 48 nations in attendance. What happened during that meeting, 87 00:04:58,900 --> 00:05:01,900 S1: and will this group actually bring peace to Gaza? 88 00:05:02,300 --> 00:05:05,299 S2: Well, President Trump opened the summit by saying the goal 89 00:05:05,300 --> 00:05:07,860 S2: is to bring about peace, which he said is something 90 00:05:07,860 --> 00:05:11,299 S2: that's easy to say but hard to produce. And frankly, 91 00:05:11,300 --> 00:05:15,419 S2: he's right. He acknowledged that the situation in Gaza is complex, 92 00:05:15,740 --> 00:05:18,060 S2: and he appointed his son in law, Jared Kushner, to 93 00:05:18,100 --> 00:05:22,020 S2: the position of special envoy to the group. Trump also 94 00:05:22,020 --> 00:05:25,099 S2: vowed again that Hamas would give up their weapons or 95 00:05:25,140 --> 00:05:28,780 S2: be dealt with harshly. He pledged $10 billion from the 96 00:05:28,779 --> 00:05:32,420 S2: US to the Board of Peace. An additional $7 billion 97 00:05:32,420 --> 00:05:36,380 S2: was pledged by participating nations. Those funds will go toward 98 00:05:36,380 --> 00:05:41,260 S2: clearing rubble, establishing temporary housing, and for providing security and 99 00:05:41,260 --> 00:05:46,060 S2: medical needs. The biggest obstacle to the Peace Board remains Hamas. 100 00:05:46,300 --> 00:05:50,539 S2: They're still trying to reassert control over Gaza and still 101 00:05:50,540 --> 00:05:53,490 S2: refusing to give up their weapons. They also appear to 102 00:05:53,529 --> 00:05:56,650 S2: have rejected the use of outside forces for peace efforts. 103 00:05:56,890 --> 00:06:02,370 S2: In spite of that, Indonesia, Morocco, Kazakhstan, Kosovo and Albania 104 00:06:02,370 --> 00:06:05,370 S2: have all committed to sending troops to Gaza as part 105 00:06:05,370 --> 00:06:08,850 S2: of an international Stabilisation Force under the command of a 106 00:06:08,890 --> 00:06:12,410 S2: US Army general, and Egypt and Jordan have committed to 107 00:06:12,450 --> 00:06:15,570 S2: training police forces. The long term goal is to have 108 00:06:15,570 --> 00:06:21,289 S2: 20,000 soldiers for the International Stabilisation Force and 12,000 trained 109 00:06:21,290 --> 00:06:25,210 S2: police officers in Gaza. In spite of opposition from Hamas 110 00:06:25,210 --> 00:06:29,050 S2: and from other countries, President Trump continues to push forward. 111 00:06:29,250 --> 00:06:31,490 S2: And this is something we should make a matter of 112 00:06:31,490 --> 00:06:34,850 S2: prayer in first Timothy two. We're called on to pray 113 00:06:34,850 --> 00:06:37,690 S2: and intercede for world leaders so we can live peaceful 114 00:06:37,690 --> 00:06:41,250 S2: and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. And Paul 115 00:06:41,250 --> 00:06:44,250 S2: ends by saying, this is good. It pleases God, and 116 00:06:44,250 --> 00:06:47,409 S2: it helps promote the spread of the gospel. And all 117 00:06:47,450 --> 00:06:50,770 S2: those goals are important for Gaza, in fact, for the 118 00:06:50,770 --> 00:06:52,160 S2: entire Middle East. 119 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,640 S1: You're listening to The Land and the book with Middle 120 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,960 S1: East expert Doctor Charlie Dyer. I'm John Gager. These are 121 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,240 S1: the stories we're looking at in the Middle East. Ramadan, 122 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:05,360 S1: the holiest month in Islam, began February the 18th. What 123 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,760 S1: impact is that having on current events in the Middle East, 124 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,320 S1: especially in Israel? 125 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:11,800 S2: You know, Ramadan, for those who don't know, is the 126 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:16,040 S2: month when Muslims fast from dawn to sunset, refraining from eating, 127 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,720 S2: drinking and smoking. They also rise early to eat before 128 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,320 S2: dawn and then eat again after sunset, often gathering till 129 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,640 S2: late at night with extended family and friends. With the 130 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,680 S2: heightened religious focus on prayer and charity, Ramadan can also 131 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,680 S2: become a time of increased political tensions. In Israel. There 132 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,920 S2: can be as many as 100,000 Muslims gather on the 133 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:42,200 S2: Temple Mount for Friday prayers during Ramadan, and in 2021, 134 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,000 S2: clashes on the Temple Mount during Ramadan led to a 135 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,680 S2: 15 day war with Hamas. The past two years were 136 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,110 S2: relatively uneventful and Israel is working hard to have that 137 00:07:52,110 --> 00:07:55,150 S2: be true for this year as well. Hundreds of additional 138 00:07:55,150 --> 00:07:58,150 S2: police officers are on duty in the Old City, especially 139 00:07:58,150 --> 00:08:02,670 S2: on Fridays, to watch over potential flashpoints. Israel expanded the 140 00:08:02,670 --> 00:08:05,990 S2: morning visiting hours for Jewish visitors to the Temple Mount, 141 00:08:06,150 --> 00:08:09,950 S2: but the area remains closed to all non-Muslims after 1130 142 00:08:09,990 --> 00:08:13,350 S2: in the morning. Israel is also allowing up to 10,000 143 00:08:13,350 --> 00:08:17,550 S2: Palestinians from outside Jerusalem per day to visit the Temple 144 00:08:17,550 --> 00:08:21,590 S2: Mount with prior approval, but there are age restrictions. Men 145 00:08:21,630 --> 00:08:24,110 S2: have to be 55 or older, women have to be 146 00:08:24,110 --> 00:08:26,510 S2: 50 or older, and children are allowed up to the 147 00:08:26,510 --> 00:08:30,110 S2: age of 12 when accompanied by a close relative. In 148 00:08:30,110 --> 00:08:32,830 S2: an effort to lower the level of incitement, Israel has 149 00:08:32,830 --> 00:08:35,870 S2: also carried out a number of operations throughout the West Bank, 150 00:08:36,030 --> 00:08:40,390 S2: arresting individuals who sought to incite violence on social media. 151 00:08:40,710 --> 00:08:43,110 S2: Israel's goal is to allow the holiday atmosphere to go 152 00:08:43,110 --> 00:08:46,429 S2: on as normally as possible, while trying to stop those 153 00:08:46,429 --> 00:08:49,540 S2: who want to turn Ramadan into a month of the violence. 154 00:08:49,580 --> 00:08:52,500 S2: Let's hope this year stays as relatively calm as the 155 00:08:52,500 --> 00:08:53,620 S2: past few have been. 156 00:08:54,220 --> 00:08:57,219 S1: In the past. We have covered stories on alleged conspiracies 157 00:08:57,220 --> 00:09:01,500 S1: involving Israel, using everything from migrating birds to sharks and 158 00:09:01,500 --> 00:09:05,740 S1: even wild boars to spy on or attack its neighbors. Now, 159 00:09:05,740 --> 00:09:09,460 S1: the latest animal story doesn't involve Israel, but it also 160 00:09:09,460 --> 00:09:13,219 S1: seems to become more credible. Tell us about the Russian 161 00:09:13,220 --> 00:09:15,460 S1: cyborg pigeon program, Charlie. 162 00:09:15,820 --> 00:09:19,100 S2: Yeah. A Russian neurotech company with close ties to the 163 00:09:19,100 --> 00:09:23,819 S2: Kremlin announced they've begun real world trials of bio drones. 164 00:09:23,860 --> 00:09:28,340 S2: Live pigeons with implanted neural interfaces. The pigeons are fitted 165 00:09:28,340 --> 00:09:32,020 S2: with a small controller, back mounted solar panels and a 166 00:09:32,020 --> 00:09:35,260 S2: chest mounted camera, and are controlled remotely by a ground 167 00:09:35,260 --> 00:09:38,860 S2: based operator. The birds are steered by stimulating their brains 168 00:09:38,860 --> 00:09:41,660 S2: with electrodes to get them to turn left or right. 169 00:09:41,940 --> 00:09:45,579 S2: The company says the purpose is to serve utilities, logistics, 170 00:09:45,620 --> 00:09:50,290 S2: agriculture and emergency response teams by allowing these cyborg pigeons 171 00:09:50,290 --> 00:09:53,090 S2: to fly up to 250 miles in a day without 172 00:09:53,090 --> 00:09:56,410 S2: a break, and to reach areas where drones would be restricted. 173 00:09:56,730 --> 00:10:00,610 S2: They also hoped to use other larger birds for increased payload. Now, 174 00:10:00,610 --> 00:10:03,290 S2: concerns have been raised about the prospect since it could 175 00:10:03,290 --> 00:10:07,850 S2: potentially be adapted for military use like surveillance, suicide attacks 176 00:10:07,850 --> 00:10:12,410 S2: or even transmitting diseases into enemy territory. A pigeon flying 177 00:10:12,450 --> 00:10:15,809 S2: silently among other pigeons would be harder to spot than 178 00:10:15,809 --> 00:10:18,970 S2: a buzzing drone flying by itself. Now, this might seem 179 00:10:18,970 --> 00:10:22,170 S2: like a high tech twist on Alfred Hitchcock's classic thriller 180 00:10:22,210 --> 00:10:24,610 S2: The Birds, but at least right now, there's no need 181 00:10:24,610 --> 00:10:28,170 S2: to panic. The idea of an army of cyborg pigeons 182 00:10:28,170 --> 00:10:30,130 S2: might turn out to be nothing more than a bird 183 00:10:30,170 --> 00:10:32,210 S2: brained idea that just won't fly. 184 00:10:32,530 --> 00:10:34,929 S1: And that's a look at current events from the Middle East. 185 00:10:35,170 --> 00:10:38,650 S1: Coming up, an interesting conversation about the good Shepherd with 186 00:10:38,650 --> 00:10:41,290 S1: a guy who has been one lived with shepherds in 187 00:10:41,290 --> 00:10:44,010 S1: the Middle East for nearly a year. All kinds of 188 00:10:44,010 --> 00:10:46,960 S1: insights and lessons he shares with us. Up next on 189 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,960 S1: the land and the book. Our website is the land 190 00:10:49,960 --> 00:11:09,280 S1: and the book dot o Tim is next. Shepherding. It's 191 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,960 S1: the single most important image of servant leadership in the Bible. 192 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,320 S1: It's at the heart of perhaps the world's most quoted 193 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,600 S1: Bible chapter, Psalm 23. But in this age of Silicon Valley, 194 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,640 S1: who cares about a valley or hill full of sheep? 195 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,360 S1: How can understanding ancient shepherds help us better understand the 196 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,600 S1: one who called himself the good Shepherd? Well, that's our 197 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,600 S1: focus next. Welcome to segment two of The Land and 198 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,600 S1: the book. I'm John Gager, inviting you to pause with 199 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,360 S1: me for a moment to think about Jewish people in 200 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:43,360 S1: our circle who need the love of Jesus. Can you 201 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,140 S1: talk to your Jewish friends about heaven and hell. Is 202 00:11:46,140 --> 00:11:49,540 S1: that an appropriate conversation? Let's ask Greg Savitt, who serves 203 00:11:49,540 --> 00:11:51,180 S1: with Rock of Israel. What do you think, Greg? 204 00:11:51,220 --> 00:11:53,339 S3: Absolutely. There's a lot of different ways that you can 205 00:11:53,340 --> 00:11:56,620 S3: talk to them about heaven and hell. There's one quotation 206 00:11:56,620 --> 00:11:59,300 S3: in Daniel 12, but at the time, your people, everyone 207 00:11:59,300 --> 00:12:01,620 S3: whose name is found in the Book of Life, will 208 00:12:01,620 --> 00:12:05,140 S3: be delivered. That sounds like the book of Heaven and hell. 209 00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:08,420 S3: Orthodox Jewish people believe in the scriptures, so if you 210 00:12:08,420 --> 00:12:11,100 S3: share with them, they will definitely deal with the claims 211 00:12:11,100 --> 00:12:15,020 S3: that you've said. Conservative people are basically just whether they're 212 00:12:15,020 --> 00:12:17,059 S3: a good person or not. They'll go to heaven or 213 00:12:17,059 --> 00:12:20,780 S3: hell and reform. People believe that their memories are lived 214 00:12:20,780 --> 00:12:24,260 S3: on through their children. So I really hope that Reform 215 00:12:24,260 --> 00:12:27,380 S3: Jews have lots of children. Otherwise they have no memory. 216 00:12:27,700 --> 00:12:29,780 S1: So they're not offended if I talk about heaven and hell. 217 00:12:29,820 --> 00:12:32,220 S1: But I'll probably get more than one opinion. 218 00:12:32,260 --> 00:12:35,260 S3: Yes, it's always good to ask them about eternal life, 219 00:12:35,260 --> 00:12:38,140 S3: and you get to know where they're at, whether they 220 00:12:38,140 --> 00:12:40,819 S3: actually believe that this is a place, whether they believe 221 00:12:41,220 --> 00:12:45,449 S3: good works will get them there. Sometimes Reform Jewish people 222 00:12:45,490 --> 00:12:51,650 S3: believe that in a technological perfection of science and technology, 223 00:12:51,650 --> 00:12:54,530 S3: that we're going to have a perfect world. Well, to 224 00:12:54,570 --> 00:12:57,690 S3: that I say, look at my iPhone. This is not 225 00:12:57,690 --> 00:12:59,010 S3: improving my life. 226 00:12:59,970 --> 00:13:02,410 S1: That's Greg Savitt, who serves with Rock of Israel here 227 00:13:02,410 --> 00:13:06,890 S1: on the land and the book doctor. Tim Lesniak is 228 00:13:06,890 --> 00:13:10,089 S1: the senior vice president of global content for our Daily 229 00:13:10,090 --> 00:13:14,370 S1: Bread Ministries. Tim has studied and ministered in over 30 countries. 230 00:13:14,850 --> 00:13:18,809 S1: He founded Shepherd Leader Ministries. After an extraordinary year of 231 00:13:18,809 --> 00:13:22,330 S1: research among Bedouin shepherds in the Middle East. He's written 232 00:13:22,330 --> 00:13:26,130 S1: a number of books, including The Good Shepherd 40 Biblical 233 00:13:26,130 --> 00:13:29,689 S1: Insights on Leaders and Being LED. We're glad to connect 234 00:13:29,690 --> 00:13:31,890 S1: with you today on the land of the book, Doctor Lesniak. 235 00:13:32,050 --> 00:13:33,890 S4: Thank you. John. It's great to be with you and 236 00:13:33,890 --> 00:13:34,809 S4: all your listeners. 237 00:13:34,809 --> 00:13:38,010 S1: So I just can't go anywhere other than this idea 238 00:13:38,010 --> 00:13:41,250 S1: of you spending about a year living with Bedouin shepherds. 239 00:13:41,250 --> 00:13:43,040 S1: How did you arrange that? I mean, it's not like 240 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:44,760 S1: you can book that through Vrbo. 241 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,920 S4: Right, exactly. Yeah, I actually couldn't even make appointments for 242 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,839 S4: interviews with Bedouin either. I was a research professor at 243 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:57,400 S4: an archaeological institute in Jerusalem, and my subject of research 244 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:02,040 S4: was Bedouin life and pastoral traditions in the Bible and 245 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,240 S4: in the ancient world and in the modern world. So 246 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,920 S4: I made multiple trips into Jordan, down into the Negev, 247 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,880 S4: in Israel, towards Egypt, the Sinai, and met a lot 248 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,199 S4: of Bedouin. I read a lot of books about Bedouin 249 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,080 S4: parables and poems and love stories. So in that process, 250 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:19,840 S4: I was in a lot of tents and had a 251 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:20,520 S4: lot of tea. 252 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,640 S1: Hey, what's the thing that most rocked your world living 253 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,360 S1: among shepherds? What was that? 254 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,320 S4: Um. Wow. A lot of things. You know, I was 255 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,000 S4: personally convicted by a lot of things. I learned from 256 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,840 S4: them about how important their work was and how central 257 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,520 S4: it was to their identity. I also found God convicting 258 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,790 S4: me as a parent that shows up in the book 259 00:14:42,790 --> 00:14:44,950 S4: The Good Shepherd, which is one of the books I wrote. 260 00:14:44,950 --> 00:14:48,590 S4: After the research, I realized what God is like for 261 00:14:48,590 --> 00:14:51,350 S4: us as a shepherd and brought new meaning to Psalm 23, 262 00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:53,150 S4: as well as a whole lot of other passages. 263 00:14:53,830 --> 00:14:57,470 S1: How about something that really scarred you spiritually? A lesson 264 00:14:57,470 --> 00:15:00,590 S1: that you are still hanging on to all these years later? 265 00:15:00,590 --> 00:15:03,310 S1: Or maybe something that has changed the way you see 266 00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:06,310 S1: Scripture as a result of your time with the shepherds? 267 00:15:06,630 --> 00:15:12,110 S4: Yeah, I've really had my understanding of leadership rocked. I've 268 00:15:12,110 --> 00:15:16,230 S4: been working on leadership topics at seminary and in teaching 269 00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:20,910 S4: and conferences. I think what's really affected me the most is, 270 00:15:20,910 --> 00:15:24,270 S4: on one hand, how important it is to start with following. 271 00:15:24,750 --> 00:15:27,390 S4: Before we talk about leading. So I always think about 272 00:15:27,390 --> 00:15:30,430 S4: Psalm 23 one the Lord is my shepherd. That's what 273 00:15:30,430 --> 00:15:33,110 S4: the King says first. Not I'm the shepherd, but I'm 274 00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:36,990 S4: the sheep. But secondly, it's the most comprehensive way to 275 00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:41,100 S4: describe leadership and therefore people that are pastors, people that 276 00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:44,700 S4: are teachers, people that have any responsibility for anyone else, 277 00:15:44,700 --> 00:15:48,620 S4: especially families, coaches. ET cetera. It is a job that 278 00:15:48,660 --> 00:15:52,260 S4: requires a constant shifting of roles, and one of the 279 00:15:52,260 --> 00:15:55,780 S4: most dramatic ways that it holds in tension those roles 280 00:15:55,780 --> 00:16:00,260 S4: is that there's compassionate provision for people's needs. And there's 281 00:16:00,260 --> 00:16:06,980 S4: also courageous protection, which includes discipline, equity, order, justice. And 282 00:16:06,980 --> 00:16:09,060 S4: it's very hard to have sort of an open hand 283 00:16:09,060 --> 00:16:10,740 S4: and a back of the hand, so to speak, or 284 00:16:10,780 --> 00:16:14,020 S4: an open heart and a strong backbone. And so I 285 00:16:14,060 --> 00:16:18,140 S4: constantly find myself and also people that I teach in 286 00:16:18,140 --> 00:16:22,220 S4: different settings resonating with this balance, which is so hard 287 00:16:22,220 --> 00:16:24,140 S4: to manage, but it's actually right at the heart of 288 00:16:24,180 --> 00:16:26,940 S4: God Himself, and it's right at the heart of the cross, 289 00:16:26,940 --> 00:16:29,660 S4: and that is that there is love and mercy, but 290 00:16:29,660 --> 00:16:31,420 S4: there's also justice and holiness. 291 00:16:31,460 --> 00:16:33,580 S1: I want to stay with this theme of leadership for 292 00:16:33,580 --> 00:16:35,900 S1: a moment. We live in a world where many Christians 293 00:16:35,940 --> 00:16:39,450 S1: love the idea of being a shepherd because despite the 294 00:16:39,450 --> 00:16:43,130 S1: humble sounding label, they see it as a leadership position. 295 00:16:43,370 --> 00:16:47,170 S1: And leaders in America get the power, the perks, the publicity, 296 00:16:47,210 --> 00:16:49,730 S1: not to mention the salary and the nicer office. And 297 00:16:49,730 --> 00:16:53,210 S1: so our bookshelves are sagging with books on leadership, but 298 00:16:53,210 --> 00:16:57,770 S1: very few write about following. I think our emphasis is wrong. 299 00:16:57,810 --> 00:16:58,570 S1: Your thoughts? 300 00:16:58,930 --> 00:17:02,530 S4: Yeah. Well, so following is obviously where it starts. God 301 00:17:02,530 --> 00:17:05,530 S4: judges people for not following him, but he also judges 302 00:17:05,570 --> 00:17:09,970 S4: leaders for abusing the people that they lead because they're 303 00:17:09,970 --> 00:17:12,490 S4: not there to sacrifice for them. So in John ten, 304 00:17:12,770 --> 00:17:16,170 S4: Jesus talks about sheep that follow him, but he also says, 305 00:17:16,170 --> 00:17:19,490 S4: I lay my life down for them. So the sacrifice 306 00:17:19,490 --> 00:17:22,090 S4: right at the heart of it, there is a very 307 00:17:22,090 --> 00:17:26,010 S4: careful and judicious use of authority. But in the context 308 00:17:26,010 --> 00:17:30,730 S4: of self-sacrifice, it doesn't translate into perks and privileges. It 309 00:17:30,770 --> 00:17:35,370 S4: translates into more sacrifice. If anyone's gone through discipline, they know, 310 00:17:35,810 --> 00:17:38,680 S4: as parents have been known to say, this hurts me 311 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,960 S4: more than you with their kids. It's because it's a 312 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,280 S4: grueling process. When you're really humble about the authority that 313 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,000 S4: you sometimes need to exercise. 314 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:51,000 S1: Tim spent months among Bedouin shepherds in the Middle East, 315 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,959 S1: combining this rich cultural experience with careful biblical study. He 316 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,840 S1: has written The Good Shepherd. What does it take to 317 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,000 S1: live like a shepherd? Spell it out. 318 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,520 S4: Okay. It does mean probably the number one attribute of 319 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,200 S4: a shepherd over the course of the year is adaptability, 320 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,320 S4: because things just change in the environment. It does for shepherds. 321 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,600 S4: It does for us. When we're figurative shepherds, it does 322 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,880 S4: involve providing for them. It does involve protecting them and 323 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,840 S4: involves guiding them. So the three sections of the book, 324 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,480 S4: The good Shepherd, are provision, protection and guidance. That gives 325 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:27,000 S4: kind of a sweep over about 13 topics for each one. 326 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,520 S4: So under provision it involves feeding and watering. But it 327 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,080 S4: also means knowing them well enough to know when they 328 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,040 S4: need to be healed, when they need to be cared for, 329 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,750 S4: when they need to be separated, and then provision goes 330 00:18:38,750 --> 00:18:40,830 S4: to protection when we have to make sure that they're 331 00:18:40,830 --> 00:18:45,190 S4: protected from outside threats, but also from internal predators. And 332 00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:48,750 S4: we live in a world where there's financial abuse, sexual abuse, 333 00:18:49,109 --> 00:18:51,910 S4: all kinds of abuse of power, and a shepherd has 334 00:18:51,910 --> 00:18:53,790 S4: to be aware of that. And then in terms of guiding, 335 00:18:54,070 --> 00:18:56,550 S4: we have to be able to lay down those pathways 336 00:18:56,869 --> 00:19:00,470 S4: in a desert which figuratively, just like the literal world, 337 00:19:00,510 --> 00:19:03,790 S4: it's a desert that's inhospitable, it's a desert that's hostile, 338 00:19:03,790 --> 00:19:07,669 S4: and it's a desert that does not automatically lead anywhere. 339 00:19:07,670 --> 00:19:11,109 S4: It actually has paths that lead to death. So we're 340 00:19:11,109 --> 00:19:15,030 S4: setting those pathways, we're tapping into some shared leadership, and 341 00:19:15,030 --> 00:19:17,030 S4: we're trying to make sure that they all make it home. 342 00:19:17,630 --> 00:19:19,950 S1: This is the land and the book. I'm John Gager. 343 00:19:19,990 --> 00:19:22,710 S1: What a great conversation we're having today with Tim Leoniak, 344 00:19:22,869 --> 00:19:27,030 S1: who knows about shepherds because he's lived with shepherds. Let's 345 00:19:27,030 --> 00:19:30,270 S1: go to Psalm 23, the most famous shepherd chapter in 346 00:19:30,270 --> 00:19:33,550 S1: the Bible, and it references two of the shepherds primary 347 00:19:33,550 --> 00:19:37,369 S1: tools the rod and the staff. You address them both 348 00:19:37,369 --> 00:19:39,810 S1: in your book. Let's talk first about the rod. What 349 00:19:39,810 --> 00:19:42,050 S1: do we need to know about the shepherd's rod as 350 00:19:42,050 --> 00:19:44,650 S1: it relates to the sheep and ultimately to us? 351 00:19:45,369 --> 00:19:49,730 S4: Yeah, the rod is a symbol of protection, but that 352 00:19:49,730 --> 00:19:53,330 S4: protection is both outward facing and also inward facing on 353 00:19:53,330 --> 00:19:56,330 S4: the flock. And Ezekiel 34 is a fabulous passage that 354 00:19:56,330 --> 00:20:00,250 S4: describes God's shepherds that are being judged. And Israel goes 355 00:20:00,250 --> 00:20:02,689 S4: into exile for that. And God says, I'm going to 356 00:20:02,690 --> 00:20:04,170 S4: bring you back, and I'm going to put you on 357 00:20:04,210 --> 00:20:07,649 S4: the beautiful, lush hillsides of the promised land and feed 358 00:20:07,650 --> 00:20:10,250 S4: you and care for you and nurture you from your wounds. 359 00:20:10,250 --> 00:20:12,490 S4: And then he just says, without a break, and I 360 00:20:12,530 --> 00:20:16,610 S4: will judge between one sheep and another, between those that 361 00:20:16,609 --> 00:20:20,250 S4: are strong, the males, those with the horns. And so 362 00:20:20,450 --> 00:20:23,570 S4: actually what God says is in essence, I know how 363 00:20:23,570 --> 00:20:25,729 S4: to use the rod for the predators that are out 364 00:20:25,730 --> 00:20:28,609 S4: in the wilderness. The wolves, the hyenas, back in the 365 00:20:28,609 --> 00:20:32,210 S4: days of the Bible, bears, lions, etc. but I also 366 00:20:32,210 --> 00:20:35,080 S4: use the rod inside the flock, and that's to make 367 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,200 S4: sure that there is equity and order, and especially that 368 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,440 S4: those are young, that are sick, that are weak, that 369 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,400 S4: are smaller. They don't get pushed aside by the ones 370 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,399 S4: that take advantage of their physical power. 371 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,760 S1: What about the shepherds? Other must have the staff. Do 372 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,160 S1: shepherds really still use a staff? And if so, what for? 373 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,520 S4: Well, they actually don't use the rod anymore because they 374 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,440 S4: have AK 47 seconds and Uzis hanging in their tent, 375 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,719 S4: and they don't tend to use the staff anymore, except 376 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,400 S4: sometimes they'll have like a plastic broomstick or something like 377 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,640 S4: that because it just doesn't have the same meaning. But 378 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,520 S4: in some tribal areas, like in East Africa, the staff 379 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,000 S4: is still a symbol of a person's identity. They're often decorated. 380 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,440 S4: I like to think of it as a symbol of 381 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:23,560 S4: the shepherds nurturing presence, and especially because it's used not 382 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,200 S4: only to kind of signal that the shepherds just their 383 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,400 S4: presence is a huge part of shepherding, but also because 384 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,830 S4: the shepherd uses it to rescue a flock If it 385 00:21:32,830 --> 00:21:35,150 S4: has a crook on it, that's what it's for. To 386 00:21:35,150 --> 00:21:37,990 S4: rescue them or to nudge them when newborns are not 387 00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:40,429 S4: finding their way to their mothers. You know, to nudge them. 388 00:21:41,070 --> 00:21:45,430 S4: And it's really, um, a kind of reassuring symbol, whereas 389 00:21:45,430 --> 00:21:48,669 S4: the rod is reassuring, like it says in Psalm 23, 390 00:21:48,670 --> 00:21:51,630 S4: your rod and your staff comfort me. I'm comforted by 391 00:21:51,630 --> 00:21:54,430 S4: your staff because I know that you're there for me. 392 00:21:54,630 --> 00:21:57,190 S4: I'm comforted by your rod because I know you'll use 393 00:21:57,190 --> 00:21:59,470 S4: it when someone wants to abuse me. But of course, 394 00:21:59,710 --> 00:22:02,270 S4: as we all learned when we were kids, we felt 395 00:22:02,270 --> 00:22:05,830 S4: comforted because our parents exercised discipline on our siblings. We 396 00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:08,390 S4: didn't always say we were comforted when it was used 397 00:22:08,390 --> 00:22:11,190 S4: on us, but that's what that's what it takes. Yeah. 398 00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:15,670 S1: You write about recognizing the wolves in one chapter, and 399 00:22:16,150 --> 00:22:18,070 S1: I'd like you to just take a shot at this. 400 00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:20,950 S4: I will, and I'll say this is in some ways, 401 00:22:20,950 --> 00:22:24,109 S4: maybe one of the more uncomfortable things is that Paul 402 00:22:24,109 --> 00:22:27,429 S4: gathers the Ephesian elders together in Miletus in Acts 20. 403 00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:29,710 S4: And he says to them on the last time he's 404 00:22:29,710 --> 00:22:33,940 S4: going to see them, they're not reminiscing about their favorite memories, 405 00:22:33,940 --> 00:22:36,700 S4: he says. I know that when I leave, savage wolves 406 00:22:36,700 --> 00:22:39,379 S4: will come in among you. And he said, and some 407 00:22:39,380 --> 00:22:42,620 S4: of you will become those wolves. And I think what 408 00:22:42,619 --> 00:22:46,060 S4: we have to recognize is that Paul was once a wolf, 409 00:22:46,060 --> 00:22:49,020 S4: and he knew that other people could be like he was, 410 00:22:49,020 --> 00:22:50,860 S4: but he even looked at a group, and he realized 411 00:22:50,859 --> 00:22:53,540 S4: that he couldn't even depend on all of them staying 412 00:22:53,580 --> 00:22:56,060 S4: true to their calling as shepherds, that they might use 413 00:22:56,060 --> 00:23:00,100 S4: their influence and their power to actually take advantage of 414 00:23:00,100 --> 00:23:02,020 S4: the flock. And so you have someone like Demas in 415 00:23:02,020 --> 00:23:05,500 S4: the New Testament who's one of Paul's faves, and one 416 00:23:05,500 --> 00:23:08,220 S4: chapter and another one. He says, you know, he's turned 417 00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:11,899 S4: against us and you think about Judas. The devil enters 418 00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:15,460 S4: into Judas. But remember Jesus also said to Peter, get 419 00:23:15,460 --> 00:23:20,100 S4: behind me, Satan. So even inside a Christian organization, a ministry, 420 00:23:20,140 --> 00:23:24,300 S4: a church and a family, sometimes people get co-opted. Even 421 00:23:24,300 --> 00:23:27,540 S4: when they're well-intentioned, they get co-opted by the devil for 422 00:23:27,540 --> 00:23:31,530 S4: the devil's program. And sometimes that's what the shepherd has 423 00:23:31,530 --> 00:23:34,530 S4: to recognize that there's something going on here that's devious, 424 00:23:34,530 --> 00:23:37,690 S4: it's deceptive, it's distracting, and you have to be able 425 00:23:37,690 --> 00:23:39,970 S4: to name it and sometimes cull it. 426 00:23:40,130 --> 00:23:43,729 S1: Yeah. Wow. Boy. That's heavy. I was intrigued, were you 427 00:23:43,730 --> 00:23:47,810 S1: right in one chapter about quote being there. Expand on this. 428 00:23:48,530 --> 00:23:53,050 S4: Yeah. You know, there's another ministry that was spawned by, um, 429 00:23:53,570 --> 00:23:56,410 S4: my work and or influenced by some of the books 430 00:23:56,410 --> 00:23:58,970 S4: and things that I had done. And it's called Presence Point. 431 00:23:58,970 --> 00:24:04,090 S4: And she talks about, um, provision, protection and presence, because 432 00:24:04,330 --> 00:24:08,450 S4: underneath all of these attributes and roles of a shepherd 433 00:24:08,450 --> 00:24:12,449 S4: is their physical presence. And in some ways, none of 434 00:24:12,450 --> 00:24:15,490 S4: these things work if all they are is technique and 435 00:24:15,490 --> 00:24:19,290 S4: method and strategy. But when a shepherd is there, a 436 00:24:19,290 --> 00:24:23,010 S4: shepherd actually knows the flock in ways that again, a parent, 437 00:24:23,050 --> 00:24:26,370 S4: a good coach, a leader really knows when you can 438 00:24:26,369 --> 00:24:29,880 S4: tell something's up or when something's wrong. And a lot 439 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,760 S4: of times that's how you discern the early stages of 440 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:38,240 S4: an infection or a problem between animals. A shepherd just 441 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,760 S4: knows they can feel it because their instinctive. I had 442 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,520 S4: one shepherd who said to me, I'm the wealthiest shepherd 443 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,240 S4: around here. I've got 2000 sheep. I started with the 444 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,919 S4: very first flock by buying a, you know, a handful 445 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,760 S4: of sheep. And he said, I have two wives. They 446 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,480 S4: each have their own houses. And he said, I have 447 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,360 S4: meat every week. This is how he described his wealth 448 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,359 S4: and his success. And he said, but if I wasn't 449 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,920 S4: willing to sleep out with the sheep every night, he said, 450 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,880 S4: I wouldn't deserve to be their shepherd. Wow. He didn't 451 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,240 S4: want to have anyone that worked for him ever have 452 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,359 S4: a tighter bond with his flock than he did personally, 453 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,760 S4: even though he had sons and other helpers. 454 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,440 S1: Wow. Well, there is so much more to explore and 455 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,800 S1: Doctor Tim Leoniak is your guide, your expert, and I 456 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,359 S1: love the fact that he speaks from experience. Having lived 457 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,270 S1: with these shepherds many, many lessons in these 40 chapters. 458 00:25:28,270 --> 00:25:30,350 S1: The Good Shepherd. There's a link to Tim's book at 459 00:25:30,350 --> 00:25:34,470 S1: our website. The Land and the book, the land and 460 00:25:34,470 --> 00:25:37,550 S1: the book. Tim, love to have you come back and 461 00:25:37,550 --> 00:25:38,590 S1: share more in the future. 462 00:25:38,869 --> 00:25:42,070 S4: Well thank you. Heard some great stories about Lost sheep, 463 00:25:42,109 --> 00:25:45,790 S4: heard some great stories about people losing their way and 464 00:25:45,790 --> 00:25:47,989 S4: being found. And so yeah, there's a lot more to 465 00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:48,950 S4: talk about. Thanks. 466 00:25:49,190 --> 00:25:51,230 S1: And there's more to come here on the land and 467 00:25:51,230 --> 00:25:53,510 S1: the book, as Gerald Peterson steps up with a fresh 468 00:25:53,510 --> 00:26:11,670 S1: set of Bible questions coming up. If you are curious 469 00:26:11,670 --> 00:26:15,230 S1: if you are a wanderer, a Bible reader who questions well, 470 00:26:15,230 --> 00:26:17,310 S1: you've come to the right place. This is the land 471 00:26:17,310 --> 00:26:20,629 S1: and the book. Segment three I'm John Yeager, seated across 472 00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:23,350 S1: from the one and only Doctor Gerald Peterman, who's been 473 00:26:23,350 --> 00:26:25,550 S1: teaching at Moody Bible Institute for how long? 474 00:26:25,820 --> 00:26:30,139 S5: Wow. Um, since fall of 2002. 475 00:26:30,180 --> 00:26:32,540 S1: Okay, so that's that's a good long time. 476 00:26:32,580 --> 00:26:33,380 S5: Yeah, yeah. 477 00:26:33,420 --> 00:26:36,340 S1: I bet in those 23 plus years, you have experienced 478 00:26:36,340 --> 00:26:38,220 S1: all kinds of questions from students. 479 00:26:39,140 --> 00:26:41,780 S5: This is one of my favorite things to have a 480 00:26:41,780 --> 00:26:44,620 S5: question in the classroom. Because because then when you talk 481 00:26:44,660 --> 00:26:48,980 S5: about that question, you know you're touching where someone else 482 00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:50,940 S5: has a need. So it's so much fun. 483 00:26:50,940 --> 00:26:52,940 S1: And I have to say, as a moody graduate, one 484 00:26:52,940 --> 00:26:56,700 S1: of my great fond memories is the ability to ask 485 00:26:56,700 --> 00:27:00,540 S1: those questions freely. So I'm just saying, if you've got 486 00:27:00,580 --> 00:27:03,540 S1: a son or a daughter or grandkid that's thinking about 487 00:27:03,540 --> 00:27:07,020 S1: their future, Moody is a great, great choice. You can't 488 00:27:07,020 --> 00:27:10,179 S1: go wrong with a good, solid Bible education. Go to 489 00:27:10,220 --> 00:27:17,500 S1: Moody to check out what's there for your son? Daughter. Granddaughter. Moody. Well, 490 00:27:17,540 --> 00:27:20,300 S1: soon we're going to be celebrating Good Friday and Resurrection 491 00:27:20,300 --> 00:27:23,900 S1: Sunday and remembering the words from the Last Supper in 492 00:27:23,940 --> 00:27:27,330 S1: the same way Jesus took the cup after supper, saying, 493 00:27:27,490 --> 00:27:30,690 S1: this cup is the new covenant in my blood. Well, 494 00:27:30,690 --> 00:27:34,409 S1: did you know that the Last Supper was a Passover Seder? 495 00:27:34,609 --> 00:27:37,050 S1: And that cup is believed to be the third cup 496 00:27:37,050 --> 00:27:40,889 S1: in the traditional Passover service? There is so much more 497 00:27:40,890 --> 00:27:43,770 S1: depth and understanding to be gained when we view the 498 00:27:43,770 --> 00:27:47,410 S1: Last Supper as a Passover Seder, and for this reason, 499 00:27:47,450 --> 00:27:49,810 S1: our friends at Life in Messiah are offering to mail 500 00:27:49,810 --> 00:27:54,330 S1: you a free copy of their Messianic Passover Haggadah. It's 501 00:27:54,330 --> 00:27:56,770 S1: a booklet that will lead you through the celebration of 502 00:27:56,770 --> 00:28:00,930 S1: Passover to see all the rich connections to Jesus, our 503 00:28:00,930 --> 00:28:03,969 S1: Messiah and Savior. You'll also get a link for an 504 00:28:03,970 --> 00:28:08,530 S1: interactive Passover Seder video. So with the Haggadah. With the video, 505 00:28:08,650 --> 00:28:11,889 S1: you can celebrate Passover this year with your family and friends. 506 00:28:11,890 --> 00:28:13,850 S1: And to get this free offer, it's easy. Just go 507 00:28:13,850 --> 00:28:18,090 S1: to Life.in Messiah and click on the radio button to 508 00:28:18,130 --> 00:28:22,290 S1: find out more. Just request your copy at Life in Messiah. 509 00:28:22,990 --> 00:28:25,390 S1: We want to get right to our questions. We've got 510 00:28:25,390 --> 00:28:27,950 S1: a bunch of them from Mark. He takes us to 511 00:28:27,990 --> 00:28:33,430 S1: the idea in the Old Testament, where they're sacrificing 142,000 512 00:28:33,470 --> 00:28:39,870 S1: oxygen sheep. At the dedication of the temple, Solomon built 142,000. 513 00:28:39,870 --> 00:28:42,590 S1: So he wants to know, quite understandably, how did they 514 00:28:42,590 --> 00:28:45,990 S1: dispose of all that blood and really any of the 515 00:28:46,030 --> 00:28:47,709 S1: mass sacrifice rituals? 516 00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:51,390 S5: Well, that's a great question. Let's let's go to the passage. 517 00:28:51,390 --> 00:28:55,990 S5: This is, uh, first Kings eight, verses 63 and 64. 518 00:28:56,030 --> 00:29:00,750 S5: Solomon offered as peace offerings to the Lord. 22,000 oxen 519 00:29:00,750 --> 00:29:04,350 S5: and 120,000 sheep. So you can do the math. The 520 00:29:04,390 --> 00:29:09,350 S5: same day the king consecrated the middle of the court. 521 00:29:09,630 --> 00:29:12,270 S5: That was before the house of the Lord. For there 522 00:29:12,270 --> 00:29:14,590 S5: he offered the burnt offering and the grain offering, and 523 00:29:14,590 --> 00:29:17,910 S5: the fat pieces. So part of our answer starts to 524 00:29:17,950 --> 00:29:24,020 S5: come from these verses themselves. That is Solomon consecrated a 525 00:29:24,060 --> 00:29:27,220 S5: larger portion of the temple area, and it was pretty 526 00:29:27,220 --> 00:29:31,180 S5: big for these sacrifices to be done rather than 110 527 00:29:31,220 --> 00:29:34,180 S5: by ten altar. So you could spread it out and 528 00:29:34,180 --> 00:29:37,420 S5: it's over the course of a week. Still, I know 529 00:29:37,420 --> 00:29:42,660 S5: that means thousands of sacrifices per day. Here's something I'm 530 00:29:42,740 --> 00:29:46,220 S5: guessing happened, but scripture never actually talks about it. They 531 00:29:46,540 --> 00:29:50,460 S5: long prepared for this day. That is, that the temple 532 00:29:50,460 --> 00:29:54,260 S5: is long in the building. This particular celebration is long. 533 00:29:54,260 --> 00:29:58,020 S5: In the preparations, though, they have created a system of 534 00:29:58,540 --> 00:30:01,380 S5: I don't know what you'd call it, drains or channels 535 00:30:01,380 --> 00:30:03,780 S5: to take care of all this so that it gets 536 00:30:03,780 --> 00:30:09,540 S5: done properly and there's nothing that gets messed up. Even Josephus, 537 00:30:09,540 --> 00:30:10,660 S5: have you heard of Josephus? 538 00:30:10,980 --> 00:30:12,500 S1: I certainly have the historian. Yes. 539 00:30:12,580 --> 00:30:17,740 S5: First century historian, Jewish man. He writes about a Passover 540 00:30:17,740 --> 00:30:21,650 S5: that happens during the time of Nero. Remember the emperor Nero. 541 00:30:21,970 --> 00:30:28,330 S5: He mentions a Passover that happens where they have 256,000 sacrifices. 542 00:30:28,330 --> 00:30:32,290 S5: So this is a known number that can happen. I 543 00:30:32,290 --> 00:30:35,490 S5: know it sounds like a lot, but it can happen. 544 00:30:35,490 --> 00:30:37,850 S1: Well, you know what else can happen? You getting an 545 00:30:37,850 --> 00:30:41,330 S1: answer to the question that you've been puzzling over for 546 00:30:41,330 --> 00:30:44,090 S1: some time? Why not email it to Doctor Peterman? You 547 00:30:44,130 --> 00:30:47,330 S1: connect with us at The Land and the book at 548 00:30:49,050 --> 00:30:54,010 S1: the land and the book at Moody. Margaret says in 549 00:30:54,010 --> 00:31:00,090 S1: reading all the prophecies in Isaiah against Egypt, Ethiopia, Moab, Damascus, Babylon, 550 00:31:00,090 --> 00:31:04,370 S1: and the others, did these countries and cities know about them, 551 00:31:04,370 --> 00:31:07,010 S1: and if so, how did the information get to them? 552 00:31:07,450 --> 00:31:10,610 S5: Well, it's a wonderful question. I've pondered it myself. Short 553 00:31:10,610 --> 00:31:13,330 S5: answer is we don't know. We're not sure how this happened, 554 00:31:13,330 --> 00:31:17,930 S5: but I'm going to speculate. Let me take an example 555 00:31:17,930 --> 00:31:23,080 S5: from Rahab. Remember what's happening there in in Joshua. Remember 556 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,600 S5: what's happening there during the Exodus. That is God's working 557 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,960 S5: with his people. He does all sorts of signs. He 558 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,240 S5: takes care of them in the wilderness. And then decades later, 559 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,800 S5: hundreds of miles away. Rahab can tell you the story. 560 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,800 S5: That is amazing. Yeah. How does she know the story? 561 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,360 S5: It was not from the internet. People talked. I mean, 562 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,680 S5: over the course of generations, over the course of hundreds 563 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,680 S5: of miles, people talked about what was happening. So here's 564 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:57,400 S5: my guess. Sometimes the prophecies against these nations were talked 565 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,960 S5: about by listeners and others heard and they talked and 566 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,560 S5: others heard and they talked. So I suspect that some 567 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,720 S5: of the people in Egypt, Ethiopia, Moab knew the prophecies 568 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:09,520 S5: that were coming. 569 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,000 S1: All right. That's interesting. Katrina says I'm a woman feeling 570 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,480 S1: a calling toward ministry. I live in New York City 571 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,550 S1: where a female pastor Leads. But in Texas, my male 572 00:32:20,550 --> 00:32:24,790 S1: pastor says women can't teach. I know there are arguments 573 00:32:24,790 --> 00:32:30,070 S1: for both egalitarian and complementarian perspectives. Which is right? 574 00:32:30,430 --> 00:32:34,950 S5: Well, I appreciate Katrina's question. I know it's difficult and sensitive, 575 00:32:35,670 --> 00:32:38,030 S5: but we should remember one thing to just get us started. 576 00:32:38,270 --> 00:32:42,910 S5: Every Christian has a spiritual gift. What does first Peter 577 00:32:42,910 --> 00:32:47,350 S5: 410 say as each of us has received a gift, 578 00:32:47,390 --> 00:32:53,030 S5: use it to serve one another. That's folks, that's ministry, right? 579 00:32:53,070 --> 00:32:56,750 S5: As good stewards of God's varied grace. So we should 580 00:32:56,750 --> 00:33:00,550 S5: all be engaged in service based on the gift we have. 581 00:33:01,070 --> 00:33:05,030 S5: This pastor tells her women can't teach. Well, I'm sorry, 582 00:33:05,030 --> 00:33:08,070 S5: both women and men can have the gift of teaching. 583 00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:10,910 S5: How do we know that? We know that because Paul says, 584 00:33:11,110 --> 00:33:15,750 S5: Titus two verses 3 to 5 older women should teach 585 00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:19,500 S5: younger women to love their husbands and children. So that 586 00:33:19,540 --> 00:33:23,020 S5: requires the skill. This requires. This requires the gift. I 587 00:33:23,020 --> 00:33:26,420 S5: think men and women can have the gift of teaching. 588 00:33:26,420 --> 00:33:31,700 S5: But first Timothy three four Paul says, elders or overseers 589 00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:33,660 S5: in the church, and I take it that elders guide 590 00:33:33,660 --> 00:33:37,140 S5: the church. Elders teach the church. Paul says, elders and 591 00:33:37,140 --> 00:33:41,180 S5: overseers are men. They must be men of good character. 592 00:33:41,180 --> 00:33:43,700 S5: They must be the husband of one wife. So I 593 00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:45,820 S5: think this is where that pastor is going that she 594 00:33:45,820 --> 00:33:50,020 S5: talks to. The pastor has said, well, the teachers in 595 00:33:50,020 --> 00:33:53,020 S5: the church should be men. Well, I think the elders 596 00:33:53,020 --> 00:33:54,979 S5: of the church should be men, the pastors of the 597 00:33:54,980 --> 00:33:57,340 S5: church be men, but the teachers should be men and women, 598 00:33:57,380 --> 00:34:00,140 S5: depending upon the office they hold. And I don't think 599 00:34:00,140 --> 00:34:02,500 S5: the office of elder is open to women. 600 00:34:02,980 --> 00:34:06,140 S1: You know, my assessment has always been, if this were 601 00:34:06,140 --> 00:34:09,420 S1: so that women could be pastors, why wouldn't we have 602 00:34:09,420 --> 00:34:12,180 S1: seen that in Scripture? Why would it say, you know, 603 00:34:12,219 --> 00:34:14,420 S1: the husband of one wife? Why didn't it say the 604 00:34:14,420 --> 00:34:16,010 S1: spouse of one spouse, right? 605 00:34:16,050 --> 00:34:19,170 S5: Or the wife of one husband? Yeah, sure. Yeah. Um, 606 00:34:19,170 --> 00:34:21,930 S5: that's a great question, John. I think the precedent set 607 00:34:21,930 --> 00:34:26,129 S5: by our Lord Jesus, our Lord Jesus was very progressive 608 00:34:26,130 --> 00:34:29,730 S5: in some sense, wasn't he? That is the connections he 609 00:34:29,730 --> 00:34:33,210 S5: had with people. He was just transparent with them. But 610 00:34:33,210 --> 00:34:37,009 S5: his 12 apostles were all men. Mary Magdalene is not 611 00:34:37,010 --> 00:34:41,130 S5: among them, although she is a precious witness to the resurrection. 612 00:34:41,250 --> 00:34:45,730 S5: So I think the 12 men apostles is a pattern 613 00:34:45,730 --> 00:34:46,610 S5: we should follow. 614 00:34:47,010 --> 00:34:50,009 S1: Jamie wants to know during Jesus time in the desert, 615 00:34:50,010 --> 00:34:52,730 S1: where he is tempted by the devil, since he is 616 00:34:52,730 --> 00:34:55,969 S1: the Son of God, incapable of sin. How do these 617 00:34:55,969 --> 00:34:59,330 S1: temptations mimic what is experienced by us as humans? Did 618 00:34:59,330 --> 00:35:01,730 S1: Jesus know he was not capable of sinning when he 619 00:35:01,730 --> 00:35:02,930 S1: was resisting the devil? 620 00:35:03,210 --> 00:35:06,489 S5: Well, there's two really good questions there. I'm going to 621 00:35:06,489 --> 00:35:09,330 S5: start with the second one. Did Jesus know he was 622 00:35:09,330 --> 00:35:13,690 S5: not capable of sinning? In John 829, we have Jesus 623 00:35:13,690 --> 00:35:18,990 S5: say I always do what is pleasing to my father. 624 00:35:18,989 --> 00:35:21,870 S5: And I take it not only does he say he 625 00:35:21,910 --> 00:35:24,549 S5: does it, he knows that he does it well. If 626 00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:28,710 S5: he knows, he always does what is pleasing. The corollary 627 00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:32,950 S5: is he knows he cannot disobey. He knows he cannot sin. 628 00:35:33,110 --> 00:35:35,430 S5: So I think on the basis of 829, we can 629 00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:38,630 S5: say it's impossible for Jesus to sin, but could he 630 00:35:38,670 --> 00:35:42,030 S5: be tempted? I think the response is, yes, he could be, 631 00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:46,670 S5: because Hebrews 415 says, we have a high priest who 632 00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:50,870 S5: can sympathize with us in our weakness. Folks, have you 633 00:35:50,870 --> 00:35:53,950 S5: read John four? It is just really, really precious stuff. 634 00:35:53,950 --> 00:35:58,870 S5: Jesus at the well was weary from the journey. Anytime 635 00:35:58,870 --> 00:36:01,270 S5: we get weary from the journey, we can begin to 636 00:36:01,310 --> 00:36:04,030 S5: feel weak in our heart and mind. And Jesus can 637 00:36:04,030 --> 00:36:08,150 S5: feel that with us so he can be tempted as 638 00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:11,989 S5: we are and understand how the temptation feels and what 639 00:36:11,989 --> 00:36:15,940 S5: it means. So this is the connection because Jesus experiences 640 00:36:15,940 --> 00:36:18,060 S5: the pain and the fatigue of being in a body, 641 00:36:18,100 --> 00:36:20,900 S5: he understands the temptations we go through. 642 00:36:21,219 --> 00:36:23,580 S1: Well, those are great questions. Again, we love it when 643 00:36:23,580 --> 00:36:26,259 S1: you write us and share your thoughts with us. You're 644 00:36:26,260 --> 00:36:29,540 S1: welcome anytime to connect at the Land and the book 645 00:36:29,780 --> 00:36:35,259 S1: at Moody Dot. That's the land and the book at Moody. 646 00:36:36,820 --> 00:36:39,460 S1: Now don't head out the door. Don't, uh, get on 647 00:36:39,460 --> 00:36:41,580 S1: with your day. We got one more segment here. It's 648 00:36:41,580 --> 00:36:44,020 S1: Charlie Dyer's devotional. It's a favorite for a whole lot 649 00:36:44,060 --> 00:36:46,899 S1: of listeners. They tell us regularly, and you might just 650 00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:49,180 S1: be a convert as you join us next here on 651 00:36:49,180 --> 00:37:06,300 S1: the land and the book. Sad days. There's no escaping them. 652 00:37:06,300 --> 00:37:09,980 S1: But not all sad days are equal. I'm John Yeager, 653 00:37:10,020 --> 00:37:12,810 S1: this is the land in the book. And Charlie, I 654 00:37:12,810 --> 00:37:15,489 S1: understand that Ezekiel had his own share of sad days, 655 00:37:15,489 --> 00:37:18,129 S1: but one of them you're describing as the saddest. 656 00:37:18,450 --> 00:37:20,330 S2: Oh, it had to be the saddest day in his life. 657 00:37:20,330 --> 00:37:21,690 S2: And that's where we want to go today. 658 00:37:21,730 --> 00:37:24,770 S1: That's Ezekiel 24, where we're headed. Not before we hear 659 00:37:24,770 --> 00:37:28,210 S1: this Holy Land experience a testimony from somebody who's traveled 660 00:37:28,210 --> 00:37:30,290 S1: to the Holy Land and shares this with you and 661 00:37:30,290 --> 00:37:31,330 S1: me right now. 662 00:37:35,650 --> 00:37:42,010 S6: My experience about Israel is this I've taken 15 trips there, 663 00:37:42,570 --> 00:37:46,890 S6: the first two as a tourist and the last 13 664 00:37:47,410 --> 00:37:52,050 S6: as a volunteer for Israel. One of the most moving 665 00:37:52,250 --> 00:37:57,330 S6: places I've visited in Israel with Yad Vashem in Jerusalem. 666 00:37:57,690 --> 00:38:00,410 S6: And I tried to go there each time when I 667 00:38:00,410 --> 00:38:05,890 S6: have some time off to sightsee, because it's just a 668 00:38:06,250 --> 00:38:10,290 S6: way to touch base and feel the heartbeat of Israel 669 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,319 S6: to understand the Holocaust better. And by the way, I 670 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,040 S6: recommend everyone get a hold of at least one book 671 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,919 S6: about the Holocaust written by someone who's a survivor. I 672 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,879 S6: think it it really does help us be more in 673 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,440 S6: touch with the Jewish suffering and, um, you know, to 674 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,240 S6: be able to understand and empathize with them. 675 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,800 S1: Well, it's true, Charlie, we do all go through sad days, 676 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,080 S1: but sad days are not all equal. And the biblical 677 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,399 S1: character Ezekiel has a lesson, an impression that I think 678 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:44,160 S1: we need to hear. 679 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,760 S2: Absolutely right. You know, Americans are poor students of history 680 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,839 S2: and geography. We're a forward focused nation, but that also 681 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:53,759 S2: means we don't spend much time looking in the rear 682 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,480 S2: view mirror, nor do we always pay much attention to 683 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,040 S2: what's happening in the rest of the world. We realize 684 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,080 S2: the world is shrinking. Globalization and interconnectivity are trying to 685 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,440 S2: tie the planet together in ways our parents and our 686 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,640 S2: grandparents could never have imagined, and yet we still don't 687 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,189 S2: have a good grasp of history or geography, even when 688 00:39:12,190 --> 00:39:15,430 S2: that information helps us place current events and events in 689 00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:18,350 S2: our lives into a larger context. I hope you'll see 690 00:39:18,350 --> 00:39:21,190 S2: what I mean as we visit the prophet Ezekiel on 691 00:39:21,190 --> 00:39:23,670 S2: the saddest day of his life. Our journey takes us 692 00:39:23,670 --> 00:39:26,870 S2: to Tel Aviv. No, not the one in Israel. This 693 00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:29,950 S2: one's in Iraq, south of the ancient city of Babylon. 694 00:39:30,310 --> 00:39:33,029 S2: The name is a transliteration of an Akkadian name, which 695 00:39:33,070 --> 00:39:35,989 S2: meant hill of the flood. The site was once a 696 00:39:35,989 --> 00:39:38,989 S2: town that had been destroyed by a flood. The Babylonian 697 00:39:38,989 --> 00:39:42,509 S2: army brought back Jewish captives from Jerusalem and forced them 698 00:39:42,510 --> 00:39:45,670 S2: to settle on the site Tel Aviv. The hill of 699 00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:49,030 S2: the flood ultimately became the home of the prophet Ezekiel 700 00:39:49,030 --> 00:39:52,550 S2: and his wife. Our arrival in that Tel Aviv comes 701 00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:55,910 S2: during one of the darkest times in Ezekiel's life. It 702 00:39:55,910 --> 00:39:59,230 S2: happens to be the very day the Babylonian army began 703 00:39:59,230 --> 00:40:03,270 S2: its final siege of Jerusalem, 500 miles to the west. 704 00:40:03,670 --> 00:40:06,870 S2: The dates so significant it's mentioned four times in the 705 00:40:06,870 --> 00:40:12,860 S2: Old Testament in second Kings 25, Jeremiah 39, Jeremiah 52, 706 00:40:13,219 --> 00:40:17,260 S2: and here in Ezekiel 24, it was the ninth year 707 00:40:17,420 --> 00:40:21,700 S2: in the 10th month, on the 10th day, January 15th, 708 00:40:21,739 --> 00:40:27,620 S2: 588 BC. On this cold, dark January day, history and 709 00:40:27,620 --> 00:40:32,540 S2: geography collided in tiny Tel Aviv and in mighty Jerusalem. 710 00:40:32,980 --> 00:40:35,660 S2: God's word must have brought a shiver to Ezekiel as 711 00:40:35,660 --> 00:40:38,660 S2: he huddled by the fire in his small village. Son 712 00:40:38,660 --> 00:40:41,220 S2: of man, with one blow. I'm about to take from 713 00:40:41,219 --> 00:40:45,100 S2: you the delight of your eyes. Yet do not lament 714 00:40:45,100 --> 00:40:49,260 S2: or weep, or shed any tears. Groan quietly. Do not 715 00:40:49,260 --> 00:40:52,860 S2: mourn for the dead. What a strange word from God. 716 00:40:53,140 --> 00:40:56,500 S2: God warned Ezekiel that death was near. And when it came, 717 00:40:56,700 --> 00:41:00,299 S2: Ezekiel had to pretend as if nothing was wrong. But 718 00:41:00,340 --> 00:41:03,780 S2: who was about to die? Ezekiel shared this strange message 719 00:41:03,780 --> 00:41:07,250 S2: with the people in the morning and then in the 720 00:41:07,250 --> 00:41:11,529 S2: evening he recorded the sudden, sad fulfillment of the prophecy. 721 00:41:12,050 --> 00:41:16,730 S2: In the evening, my wife died. Ezekiel was only 35 722 00:41:16,770 --> 00:41:19,370 S2: years old at the time, and his wife was likely 723 00:41:19,370 --> 00:41:22,170 S2: the same age, or perhaps even younger. They were in 724 00:41:22,170 --> 00:41:24,609 S2: the prime of life, and there was no indication of 725 00:41:24,610 --> 00:41:29,050 S2: any physical problems. In the morning, Ezekiel was a loving husband, 726 00:41:29,050 --> 00:41:32,690 S2: and by nightfall he was a widower. And then, in 727 00:41:32,690 --> 00:41:35,770 S2: obedience to God, Ezekiel did his best to act as 728 00:41:35,770 --> 00:41:39,049 S2: if nothing was wrong, even though his heart was breaking 729 00:41:39,050 --> 00:41:43,610 S2: in sorrow. Ezekiel's message and its dramatic fulfillment had a 730 00:41:43,610 --> 00:41:47,170 S2: profound impact on the people. The next day, they crowded 731 00:41:47,170 --> 00:41:49,930 S2: around the prophet and asked him, won't you tell us 732 00:41:49,930 --> 00:41:53,290 S2: what these things have to do with us? His message 733 00:41:53,290 --> 00:41:56,089 S2: was that they would soon experience the same sadness he 734 00:41:56,090 --> 00:41:59,970 S2: now felt. The city of Jerusalem, which that very day 735 00:41:59,969 --> 00:42:04,330 S2: was placed under siege by the Babylonians, would eventually be captured. 736 00:42:04,530 --> 00:42:07,440 S2: The temple would be destroyed, and any of their sons 737 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,520 S2: and daughters still living there would be killed, and these 738 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,160 S2: captives living in the land of the victorious Babylonians would 739 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,080 S2: need to pretend that nothing was wrong. You will do 740 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,719 S2: as I have done, Ezekiel predicted. These are the kind 741 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,319 S2: of stories that, in our human nature, we wish weren't 742 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,560 S2: in the Bible or in real life. Why does God 743 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,520 S2: permit his children to experience pain and suffering? Why does 744 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,480 S2: his plan for our lives include times of sadness and sorrow? 745 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,040 S2: The lessons from the life of Ezekiel are lessons we 746 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,400 S2: dare not miss. In this account, God pulls back the 747 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,640 S2: veil of history and geography and lets us see what's 748 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:49,120 S2: happening behind the scenes. Ezekiel's personal loss and his response 749 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,640 S2: to it wasn't just a random tragedy of life. They 750 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,480 S2: were essential for communicating God's message on what was about 751 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,319 S2: to take place in Jerusalem. And as a result, the 752 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,799 S2: people did listen to what Ezekiel had to say. I 753 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,219 S2: want to focus on two lessons from this event in 754 00:43:05,219 --> 00:43:09,100 S2: Ezekiel's life that I think are crucial for us today. First, 755 00:43:09,100 --> 00:43:11,500 S2: we need to recognize that being a child of God 756 00:43:11,500 --> 00:43:15,580 S2: doesn't excuse us from life's hardships and heartaches. Only in 757 00:43:15,580 --> 00:43:18,380 S2: heaven has God promised to wipe away all tears. The 758 00:43:18,380 --> 00:43:21,460 S2: Bible is full of examples of righteous men and women who, 759 00:43:21,540 --> 00:43:24,899 S2: like Ezekiel, were led by God through dark valleys as 760 00:43:24,900 --> 00:43:28,420 S2: part of his will for their lives. Second, remember that 761 00:43:28,420 --> 00:43:32,420 S2: nothing happens in life by mere chance. Not even tragedy. 762 00:43:32,700 --> 00:43:35,700 S2: We might not understand why life unfolds as it does, 763 00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:38,540 S2: but God has promised to work all things together for 764 00:43:38,540 --> 00:43:41,219 S2: good to those who love him. Even though not all 765 00:43:41,219 --> 00:43:45,100 S2: things in life are good, when times of tragedy, difficulty 766 00:43:45,100 --> 00:43:48,299 S2: and sorrow come, God calls on us to walk by 767 00:43:48,300 --> 00:43:51,819 S2: faith and remember that he is good all the time. 768 00:43:52,260 --> 00:43:55,299 S2: Paying attention to the history and geography of this story 769 00:43:55,300 --> 00:43:58,780 S2: in the life of Ezekiel helps me understand how God 770 00:43:58,780 --> 00:44:02,620 S2: can even use life's tragedies to deliver a powerful message 771 00:44:02,620 --> 00:44:06,290 S2: to those around us. The specific circumstances of our struggles 772 00:44:06,290 --> 00:44:09,530 S2: will vary, but the God of grace and comfort remains 773 00:44:09,530 --> 00:44:11,969 S2: the same. This truth came home to me on a 774 00:44:11,969 --> 00:44:15,049 S2: visit to the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. In 775 00:44:15,050 --> 00:44:18,250 S2: the museums, a plaque written to memorialize a young woman 776 00:44:18,250 --> 00:44:21,810 S2: whose life had been tragically cut short by death on 777 00:44:21,810 --> 00:44:24,290 S2: the plaque as a poem written by the woman's sister. 778 00:44:24,650 --> 00:44:27,050 S2: The first part of the poem expresses the deep pain 779 00:44:27,050 --> 00:44:31,850 S2: and sadness of this surviving sister. Alas, how vain or 780 00:44:31,850 --> 00:44:35,130 S2: feeble words to tell what once she was, and why 781 00:44:35,130 --> 00:44:38,290 S2: I loved so well none else. But he who formed 782 00:44:38,290 --> 00:44:41,410 S2: the heart. Can know how great her worth. Or how 783 00:44:41,450 --> 00:44:46,450 S2: extreme my woe. But then the sister looked beyond her sorrow, 784 00:44:46,450 --> 00:44:49,370 S2: and found a time and place in history that helped 785 00:44:49,370 --> 00:44:52,890 S2: put her pain in perspective. And that gave her hope. 786 00:44:53,450 --> 00:44:57,569 S2: Blessed Calvary on thy crimson top I see sufferings and 787 00:44:57,570 --> 00:45:02,560 S2: death with life and love. Agree justice severe and smiling. 788 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:07,239 S2: Mercy join. And through the gloom we see the glory shine. 789 00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:13,680 S2: Are you struggling today? Then remember Calvary. God understands your pain. 790 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:18,160 S2: He watched his own son die an agonizing death. Thankfully, 791 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:23,400 S2: Jesus's death that Friday was eclipsed by Sunday's resurrection, reminding 792 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,719 S2: us that God does work all things together for good. 793 00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,040 S2: Focus on God and His eternal plan, so that even 794 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:35,400 S2: through life's gloom, you can see his glory shine. 795 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,759 S1: Thank you Charlie, that's an encouraging word. Maybe we could 796 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,360 S1: pause right now and pray for somebody who's going through grief. 797 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,080 S1: Somebody has lost a loved one. Charlie, would you pray 798 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:46,080 S1: for them right now? 799 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,680 S2: Sure, father. We do pray now for someone who's listening, 800 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,680 S2: who's been struggling with life's conflicts. Help them right now 801 00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:55,840 S2: through the gloom, through the sadness, through the pain. To 802 00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,120 S2: be able to look up and see you, to realize 803 00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,230 S2: you're there and you care. Help them to roll the 804 00:46:01,230 --> 00:46:04,510 S2: burdens off their their own shoulders, and lay them before 805 00:46:04,510 --> 00:46:07,390 S2: you and trust you to work all things together for good. Lord, 806 00:46:07,390 --> 00:46:08,750 S2: we ask that you would do that in a way 807 00:46:08,750 --> 00:46:12,910 S2: that only you can do. We pray it in Jesus name. Amen. 808 00:46:13,310 --> 00:46:16,390 S1: Amen. Thank you Charlie. If we can be of encouragement 809 00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:19,150 S1: to you, you can email us anytime at The Land 810 00:46:19,150 --> 00:46:23,229 S1: and the Book at Moody's. That's where you can also 811 00:46:23,230 --> 00:46:26,950 S1: get your question to Doctor Gerald Peterman. Again, the land 812 00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:31,430 S1: and the book at Moody's, our website where you can 813 00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:34,270 S1: find out about future programs, past programs and a whole 814 00:46:34,270 --> 00:46:38,870 S1: lot more. Is the land and the book, the land 815 00:46:38,989 --> 00:46:42,109 S1: and the book for our time is gone. But we 816 00:46:42,110 --> 00:46:44,950 S1: want to thank our producer, Dan Anderson. Our host, Charlie Dyer. 817 00:46:45,230 --> 00:46:48,310 S1: I'm John Gager. Thank you for carving out some personal 818 00:46:48,350 --> 00:46:50,190 S1: time to hang out with us here at The Land 819 00:46:50,190 --> 00:46:53,270 S1: and the book, a production of Moody Radio, a ministry 820 00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:54,910 S1: of Moody Bible Institute.