1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 S1: Hi friends, thanks so much for downloading this podcast and 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,480 S1: I hope truly that you will hear something that will encourage, edify, 3 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,160 S1: equip and enlighten you to get out there and influence 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,880 S1: and occupy until he comes. And on that note, may 5 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:12,760 S1: I take just a few moments here to describe this 6 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,800 S1: month's truth tool? It's by pastor Jack Hibbs. He's written 7 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,599 S1: the book called Called to Take a Bold Stand. I 8 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,480 S1: absolutely love this book because it reminds us that in Christ, 9 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,480 S1: all things pass away, all things become new, that we 10 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,200 S1: are standing for his truth, that we have a new nature. 11 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,080 S1: Because of him, we should be living boldly. But far 12 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,120 S1: too often we retreat out of fear from cultural blowback. 13 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,600 S1: So I want to encourage all of us to just 14 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,800 S1: stand up for Christ, to be unashamed of who we 15 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,080 S1: are in him, and to go into a culture that's 16 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,600 S1: telling us in no uncertain terms they're lost and they're hurting. 17 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,720 S1: So if you'd like a copy of Pastor Hibbs new 18 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,400 S1: book called Call to Take a Bold Stand, just give 19 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,519 S1: a gift of any amount by calling 877 Janet 58. 20 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,000 S1: We are listener supported radio and this is my way 21 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,160 S1: of saying thank you. So that number again is 877 22 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,690 S1: Janet 58. Or you can go online in the market 23 00:00:59,690 --> 00:01:02,930 S1: with Janet or go to the bottom of the page. 24 00:01:02,930 --> 00:01:05,649 S1: There's the cover of Pastor Jack's book, click it on, 25 00:01:05,650 --> 00:01:07,330 S1: give a gift and you'll be good to go. And 26 00:01:07,330 --> 00:01:08,810 S1: we'll send you a copy as a way of saying 27 00:01:08,810 --> 00:01:11,650 S1: thank you. Don't forget, you can also become a partial partner. 28 00:01:11,690 --> 00:01:13,850 S1: Those are people who give every single month at a 29 00:01:13,850 --> 00:01:16,130 S1: level of their own choosing. My way of saying thank 30 00:01:16,130 --> 00:01:17,850 S1: you to the partial partners is to make sure you 31 00:01:17,850 --> 00:01:20,369 S1: get a copy of each month's truth tool, and you 32 00:01:20,370 --> 00:01:22,889 S1: get our weekly newsletter, which includes some of my writing 33 00:01:22,890 --> 00:01:25,850 S1: and an audio piece only for my partial partners. So 34 00:01:25,850 --> 00:01:27,530 S1: whether it's a one time gift or you want to 35 00:01:27,530 --> 00:01:29,930 S1: be an ongoing giver and become a partial partner, that's 36 00:01:29,930 --> 00:01:31,890 S1: your call. But I want to thank you in advance. 37 00:01:31,890 --> 00:01:35,570 S1: 877 Janet 58 or online at In the Market with 38 00:01:35,569 --> 00:01:39,170 S1: Janet partial. For now, please enjoy the broadcast. 39 00:01:42,050 --> 00:01:43,570 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 40 00:01:43,850 --> 00:01:46,209 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 41 00:01:46,330 --> 00:01:48,370 S4: Americans worshiping government over God. 42 00:01:48,610 --> 00:01:52,050 S5: Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years. 43 00:01:52,050 --> 00:01:54,130 S4: The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated. 44 00:01:54,570 --> 00:02:10,910 S1: It is not. Hi, friends. Welcome to In the Market 45 00:02:10,910 --> 00:02:13,389 S1: with Janet partial. Thank you so much for choosing to 46 00:02:13,389 --> 00:02:16,150 S1: spend the hour with us. Okay. Fair warning. This is 47 00:02:16,150 --> 00:02:17,709 S1: going to be one of those hours where you learn 48 00:02:17,710 --> 00:02:20,989 S1: to think critically and biblically. And guess what? For the believer, 49 00:02:21,150 --> 00:02:23,389 S1: that's not a multiple choice test. It is not an 50 00:02:23,389 --> 00:02:26,070 S1: either or. It is a both end. How do I know? Well, 51 00:02:26,110 --> 00:02:28,030 S1: because the Bible tells me so that when you come 52 00:02:28,030 --> 00:02:30,630 S1: to faith in Christ, not only is your heart transformed, 53 00:02:30,630 --> 00:02:33,470 S1: but your mind is renewed. Now we're going to go 54 00:02:33,470 --> 00:02:35,390 S1: to what this program is all about, which is about 55 00:02:35,389 --> 00:02:38,230 S1: helping you to better contend for the faith. That powerful 56 00:02:38,230 --> 00:02:40,870 S1: little book of Jude gives us the instructions that we 57 00:02:40,910 --> 00:02:44,149 S1: are to go out, influence, and occupy. Let our light 58 00:02:44,190 --> 00:02:46,990 S1: so shine before men live such good lives. Among the 59 00:02:46,990 --> 00:02:50,510 S1: pagans being living epistles, being ambassador for Christ. You get 60 00:02:50,510 --> 00:02:52,870 S1: the drift. It's out there. We're supposed to go. And 61 00:02:52,870 --> 00:02:55,600 S1: what if just what if somebody stopped you in a 62 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,720 S1: conversation in that marketplace of ideas that you heard represented 63 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,520 S1: so beautifully by our audio montage at the start of 64 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,360 S1: every program. And somebody said to you, hey, you know, 65 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,040 S1: I would be a Christian. I'd be somebody just like 66 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,240 S1: you if I could believe that Jesus had been raised 67 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,240 S1: from the dead. But no way, no. How can you 68 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,440 S1: prove that? So it raises the if question, what if 69 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:20,519 S1: you could believe that Jesus rose physically from the dead, 70 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,799 S1: not talking to friends that follow Jesus? But we got 71 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,160 S1: a nice footprint here in all. Glory be to God 72 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,520 S1: for that. We're talking to people from Guam all the 73 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,800 S1: way to the Cayman Islands, and hundreds and hundreds of 74 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,240 S1: stations in between. So it's a fair supposition that not 75 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,360 S1: everybody listening can say definitively, I know that I know 76 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,040 S1: that I know that if I were to breathe my 77 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,360 S1: last today, I would be absent from the body and 78 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,800 S1: present with the Lord. So particularly for those of you 79 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,360 S1: who can't, can't say that with any authority, with absolute 80 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,080 S1: assurance that you know beyond a shadow of a doubt, 81 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,640 S1: that when you breathe your last this side of glory, 82 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,620 S1: you will be in his presence. I will ask you 83 00:03:54,620 --> 00:03:56,900 S1: this question, and this is why I want you particularly 84 00:03:56,900 --> 00:03:59,420 S1: to stick around and listen to our conversation this hour. 85 00:03:59,700 --> 00:04:03,140 S1: Just what if you could believe that Jesus rose from 86 00:04:03,140 --> 00:04:06,420 S1: the dead? How would that change your thinking about? Well, 87 00:04:06,460 --> 00:04:09,060 S1: in a word, everything. That's what we're going to talk 88 00:04:09,060 --> 00:04:11,300 S1: about this hour. And we're going to talk with Mike hood, 89 00:04:11,340 --> 00:04:13,740 S1: who joins us. Thank you, God, for this technology all 90 00:04:13,740 --> 00:04:15,140 S1: the way on the other side of the pond. He 91 00:04:15,140 --> 00:04:17,580 S1: joins me in the UK. Mike Hood grew up in 92 00:04:17,580 --> 00:04:20,580 S1: the Midlands, not far from Shakespeare's birthplace. Not everybody can 93 00:04:20,580 --> 00:04:23,660 S1: say that and spent much of his teenage years acting. 94 00:04:23,700 --> 00:04:26,820 S1: Of course, you live near Shakespeare for acting and performing 95 00:04:26,820 --> 00:04:28,860 S1: in a youth circus, and after a year of doing 96 00:04:28,860 --> 00:04:31,380 S1: some youth work in Devon and teaching in Malawi, he 97 00:04:31,380 --> 00:04:34,500 S1: ended up coming to Cambridge to study English Lit, hoping 98 00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:36,700 S1: to become a writer, but found that he loved having 99 00:04:36,700 --> 00:04:40,339 S1: deep conversations about life, the universe and Jesus with friends 100 00:04:40,339 --> 00:04:42,940 S1: who weren't Christians, so much so that he spent the 101 00:04:42,940 --> 00:04:46,779 S1: next five years working with the universities and Colleges, universities 102 00:04:46,779 --> 00:04:50,700 S1: and Colleges Christian Fellowship, getting alongside students at Cambridge and 103 00:04:50,700 --> 00:04:54,350 S1: Bedford and encouraging them to love their mates and help 104 00:04:54,350 --> 00:04:56,510 S1: them to get to know God. And he's written the 105 00:04:56,510 --> 00:04:58,310 S1: book we're going to talk about this hour called the 106 00:04:58,350 --> 00:05:01,589 S1: If That Changes Everything. What if you could believe that 107 00:05:01,589 --> 00:05:04,590 S1: Jesus rose from the dead? It's much later there than 108 00:05:04,589 --> 00:05:06,790 S1: it is here in the Washington, D.C. area. Mike. So 109 00:05:06,790 --> 00:05:08,910 S1: I thank you first and foremost for staying up late 110 00:05:08,910 --> 00:05:11,190 S1: so you can talk with us. I appreciate it. And 111 00:05:11,190 --> 00:05:13,350 S1: number two, I want to get to know you first, 112 00:05:13,350 --> 00:05:15,390 S1: because the Bible says out of the overflow of the heart, 113 00:05:15,390 --> 00:05:18,109 S1: the mouth speaks. You spoke through your writing of this book. 114 00:05:18,110 --> 00:05:20,029 S1: But I want to know first how you came to 115 00:05:20,070 --> 00:05:21,550 S1: know Jesus as your Messiah. 116 00:05:23,070 --> 00:05:25,470 S6: Ah, thanks, Janet. It's a joy to be with you. Um, 117 00:05:25,470 --> 00:05:29,190 S6: it's not too late over here, but, um. Yeah, I mean, 118 00:05:29,190 --> 00:05:31,229 S6: it's actually very relevant to the book. A big part 119 00:05:31,230 --> 00:05:35,109 S6: of why I, I wanted to write about the resurrection, um, 120 00:05:35,150 --> 00:05:36,909 S6: was that it was a big part of my own story. 121 00:05:36,910 --> 00:05:39,830 S6: So I, um, I had the the privilege of growing 122 00:05:39,830 --> 00:05:43,790 S6: up with Christian parents who took me to church and, uh, 123 00:05:43,950 --> 00:05:46,469 S6: you know, encouraged me to think about these things, but 124 00:05:46,470 --> 00:05:49,110 S6: I was I mean, I am naturally very skeptical. And 125 00:05:49,110 --> 00:05:52,970 S6: as a teenager, I was I was pretty skeptical of 126 00:05:52,970 --> 00:05:56,450 S6: the whole thing. And I didn't have many Christian friends. And, um, 127 00:05:56,730 --> 00:05:58,210 S6: I sort of felt a bit on the outside of 128 00:05:58,210 --> 00:06:03,330 S6: it all. And, and when I sort of was challenged, uh, 129 00:06:03,370 --> 00:06:05,609 S6: around the age of 15, to really think it through 130 00:06:06,210 --> 00:06:08,170 S6: and to work out whether I wanted to get baptized 131 00:06:08,170 --> 00:06:12,089 S6: or not. And for me, it ended up really boiling 132 00:06:12,089 --> 00:06:15,850 S6: down to being persuaded that there needed to be some 133 00:06:15,850 --> 00:06:18,890 S6: kind of god for anything to exist at all. And 134 00:06:18,890 --> 00:06:23,049 S6: then being persuaded historically, that it's really seemed like Jesus 135 00:06:23,050 --> 00:06:24,850 S6: must have risen from the dead. And I kind of 136 00:06:24,890 --> 00:06:26,969 S6: put two and two together and thought, well, hang on, 137 00:06:27,410 --> 00:06:29,090 S6: if it seems like maybe there needed to be a 138 00:06:29,130 --> 00:06:31,530 S6: god for the universe to exist, and it seems like 139 00:06:31,529 --> 00:06:35,050 S6: this guy, Jesus rose from the dead, then maybe he's 140 00:06:35,050 --> 00:06:40,690 S6: that God. And really, that was that was what, uh, 141 00:06:40,690 --> 00:06:42,610 S6: took me over the line into thinking, you know what? 142 00:06:42,610 --> 00:06:44,130 S6: I think I can trust him, I think I can 143 00:06:44,130 --> 00:06:48,060 S6: follow him. And, uh, so I got baptized, and I 144 00:06:48,100 --> 00:06:50,500 S6: guess the rest is history. God really kind of met 145 00:06:50,500 --> 00:06:52,020 S6: me and took me on a journey from there. 146 00:06:53,140 --> 00:06:54,859 S1: And I love the part of your bio. And by 147 00:06:54,860 --> 00:06:56,180 S1: the way, I should point out to our friends that 148 00:06:56,180 --> 00:06:59,220 S1: you're a pastor in training at Eden Baptist Church in Cambridge. 149 00:06:59,220 --> 00:07:02,300 S1: And so I'm my guess is not that you talk 150 00:07:02,300 --> 00:07:04,659 S1: to a lot of young people at church. And so 151 00:07:04,660 --> 00:07:07,380 S1: there is this, this natural skepticism that is there, which, 152 00:07:07,380 --> 00:07:08,940 S1: by the way, I don't think is bad at all. 153 00:07:08,940 --> 00:07:11,420 S1: I think that, you know, that's the beginning of seeking. 154 00:07:11,420 --> 00:07:14,180 S1: And if we seek him, we find him. Because if 155 00:07:14,180 --> 00:07:15,980 S1: we seek him with all our heart, he will be found. 156 00:07:15,980 --> 00:07:18,420 S1: So I think that's the beginning of The Pilgrim's Progress 157 00:07:18,420 --> 00:07:21,060 S1: of Faith. So I'm glad that you had those questions 158 00:07:21,060 --> 00:07:23,380 S1: for yourself, and that you're listening to others that are 159 00:07:23,380 --> 00:07:26,300 S1: doing the same thing. When you talk to young people 160 00:07:26,300 --> 00:07:29,700 S1: in your church, do you see and hear the same skepticism? 161 00:07:29,700 --> 00:07:33,380 S1: And is there something about the postmodern era in which 162 00:07:33,380 --> 00:07:36,020 S1: we find ourselves where somehow we have to produce it 163 00:07:36,020 --> 00:07:38,740 S1: in a petri dish, or it has to be empirically proven? 164 00:07:38,780 --> 00:07:41,060 S1: Otherwise it's not valid enough to believe in. 165 00:07:42,460 --> 00:07:46,520 S6: Well, I think it's interesting. I think there's what I'm 166 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:51,000 S6: seeing is a kind of, um, a backlash against that. 167 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,239 S6: You know, we had sort of 20 years or so of, uh, 168 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,720 S6: everybody trying to say, if you can't prove it scientifically, 169 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,880 S6: it's not real. It's stupid. You shouldn't believe any of 170 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:06,720 S6: that stupid religious, uh, sort of claptrap. Um, but I'm 171 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:12,040 S6: seeing quite a lot of young people sort of wanting 172 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,280 S6: to leave that behind and seeing that that's. I mean, 173 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,440 S6: seeing that that's empty, that it leaves you with a 174 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,760 S6: view of the world that makes no sense of what 175 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,600 S6: it's like to be a human, and that has no 176 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,680 S6: offer of hope or meaning or, you know, anything like that. 177 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,440 S6: It's just totally unlivable. And so I'm seeing a kind 178 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:34,520 S6: of a resurgence in people looking for something more. Um, 179 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,839 S6: but then, yeah, I wonder if it might particularly be 180 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:39,840 S6: a Cambridge thing, but I think it's wider than that. 181 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,800 S6: I think there are a lot of those people who 182 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,330 S6: want to find something more, but also don't want to 183 00:08:46,330 --> 00:08:49,410 S6: throw their brains away to do it. And so, um, 184 00:08:49,410 --> 00:08:51,850 S6: you know, I've had some really exciting conversations recently with 185 00:08:51,850 --> 00:08:55,130 S6: people who are saying, I'm looking for the meaning of life. 186 00:08:55,130 --> 00:08:57,929 S6: I'm looking for the answers. I need to find out 187 00:08:57,929 --> 00:08:59,330 S6: whether the resurrection is true. 188 00:08:59,650 --> 00:09:02,689 S1: Yeah, well, and, you know, we should all be anticipatory 189 00:09:02,690 --> 00:09:04,890 S1: of those kinds of questions, and we should expect them, 190 00:09:04,890 --> 00:09:07,210 S1: by the way, because I think Blaise Pascal was right 191 00:09:07,410 --> 00:09:09,290 S1: when he talked about their residing in the heart of 192 00:09:09,290 --> 00:09:11,610 S1: every man, a God shaped void and only a personal 193 00:09:11,610 --> 00:09:15,610 S1: relationship can satisfy. So if God has placed eternity in 194 00:09:15,610 --> 00:09:18,850 S1: our hearts, that void that Pascal was referring to, and 195 00:09:18,850 --> 00:09:21,570 S1: we start, I think, with the presupposition that most people 196 00:09:21,570 --> 00:09:23,290 S1: want to know, why am I here? What's the meaning 197 00:09:23,290 --> 00:09:25,569 S1: of life and what happens when I die? And that's 198 00:09:25,570 --> 00:09:29,130 S1: why this if question what if you could believe that 199 00:09:29,130 --> 00:09:31,929 S1: Jesus Rose from the dead is so prescient? We're going 200 00:09:31,970 --> 00:09:33,569 S1: to take a break and come right back. Just getting 201 00:09:33,570 --> 00:09:35,650 S1: started with Mike hood, who's the author of the book, 202 00:09:35,690 --> 00:09:48,550 S1: the if that Changes everything back after this. The Bible 203 00:09:48,550 --> 00:09:50,829 S1: calls us to stand for his truth, that we are 204 00:09:50,830 --> 00:09:52,830 S1: in Christ and that we have a new nature because 205 00:09:52,830 --> 00:09:55,110 S1: of him. So why don't we live boldly? That's why 206 00:09:55,110 --> 00:09:57,390 S1: I've chosen Call to Take a Bold Stand by pastor 207 00:09:57,390 --> 00:09:59,790 S1: Jack Hibbs as this month's truth Tool. Discover how to 208 00:09:59,830 --> 00:10:02,350 S1: stand firmly in your faith and make every moment count 209 00:10:02,350 --> 00:10:04,710 S1: for him. As for your copy of Call to Take 210 00:10:04,710 --> 00:10:06,350 S1: a Bold Stand, when you give a gift of any 211 00:10:06,350 --> 00:10:10,550 S1: amount to in the market, call 877. 58. That's 877 212 00:10:10,910 --> 00:10:13,429 S1: 58 or go to in the market with Janet Parshall. 213 00:10:16,110 --> 00:10:18,750 S1: We're visiting with Mike hood, who's an evangelist, a pastor, 214 00:10:18,750 --> 00:10:21,510 S1: and a writer who loves sharing the reality and beauty 215 00:10:21,510 --> 00:10:24,070 S1: of Jesus. He's the author of the book The If 216 00:10:24,070 --> 00:10:27,589 S1: That Changes Everything. And that's what we're talking about this hour, 217 00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:29,750 S1: by the way. Again, note to file all the way 218 00:10:29,750 --> 00:10:31,510 S1: over the other side of the pond. Mike is joining 219 00:10:31,510 --> 00:10:33,510 S1: us from the UK, and I'm thrilled that he's here. 220 00:10:33,630 --> 00:10:35,190 S1: So as I read the book, Mike, I've had a 221 00:10:35,190 --> 00:10:37,550 S1: couple of thoughts. Number one, I thought, forgive the old 222 00:10:37,550 --> 00:10:39,990 S1: fashioned language I'm about to use, but it reminded me 223 00:10:39,990 --> 00:10:43,400 S1: of an expanded gospel track because it really is the 224 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,640 S1: salvation message. So I thought you could hand this to 225 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,400 S1: any non-believer in the world if they were committed to 226 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,040 S1: taking the time to read it, and I think they 227 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,359 S1: would have so many of their questions answered. But then, 228 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,240 S1: because so many of the people that are listening right now, 229 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,480 S1: not all, but a lot, already know Christ as their 230 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,120 S1: personal savior, they might yawn and think this conversation isn't 231 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,520 S1: important to me at all. And I would say to you, wait, stop. 232 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,560 S1: If you take the social data from the people who 233 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,200 S1: do this for a living, we are biblically illiterate in 234 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,800 S1: this country. About 45% of us really and truly think 235 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,680 S1: the Bible is filled with mistakes that Jesus committed. Error 236 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,319 S1: that Satan isn't a real entity cannot define the Trinity 237 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,440 S1: for you. Oops. That means that we've failed to go 238 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,280 S1: back to the basics, and we don't spend time in 239 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,520 S1: the word on a regular basis. The numbers, quite honestly, 240 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,160 S1: are abysmal. So this is a good book for every 241 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,080 S1: single one of us, because it takes us back to 242 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,080 S1: the foundational questions of if Jesus had not been risen 243 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,400 S1: from the dead physically, what would that mean? How would 244 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,900 S1: that impact our belief in the Bible and Christianity. Even 245 00:11:40,900 --> 00:11:43,940 S1: our relationship with Jesus Christ. So you're to be commended, Mike, 246 00:11:43,940 --> 00:11:46,020 S1: because I think what you did is you extrapolated sort 247 00:11:46,020 --> 00:11:49,500 S1: of the cornerstone issue because all of Christianity really hinges 248 00:11:49,660 --> 00:11:52,339 S1: on the resurrection. The fact that someone was killed on 249 00:11:52,340 --> 00:11:54,420 S1: a cross decent wasn't the only one to be crucified 250 00:11:54,420 --> 00:11:56,300 S1: on a cross. That was a major form of capital 251 00:11:56,300 --> 00:11:59,180 S1: punishment of his time. So that would have not been 252 00:11:59,580 --> 00:12:02,939 S1: out of order. We've got extra biblical substantiation that a 253 00:12:02,940 --> 00:12:06,860 S1: Jesus of Nazareth did live, so there's historical substantiation. But 254 00:12:06,860 --> 00:12:10,420 S1: the thing that sets this whole worldview apart is the 255 00:12:10,420 --> 00:12:15,100 S1: fact that he was crucified and bodily rose and just 256 00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:17,020 S1: that act in and of itself. But the profundity of 257 00:12:17,020 --> 00:12:19,380 S1: what that means, and we'll get into that later, is 258 00:12:19,380 --> 00:12:22,580 S1: profound in and of itself. So you wisely picked sort 259 00:12:22,580 --> 00:12:25,179 S1: of this, the hinge of Christianity. Tell me why that 260 00:12:25,179 --> 00:12:27,260 S1: was your approach. Because honestly, I think it was brilliant. 261 00:12:28,340 --> 00:12:30,660 S6: Ah, well, I'm glad I'm glad you think it's helpful. 262 00:12:30,820 --> 00:12:34,980 S6: I mean, like you say, it's it's actually it's biblical 263 00:12:34,980 --> 00:12:38,469 S6: to say that everything hinges on the resurrection, right? Paul himself, 264 00:12:38,590 --> 00:12:43,790 S6: in the letter to the Corinthians, says, basically, if Jesus 265 00:12:43,790 --> 00:12:46,070 S6: didn't really rise from the dead, then you should stop 266 00:12:46,070 --> 00:12:48,510 S6: listening to anything else I say. This is all a 267 00:12:48,510 --> 00:12:52,070 S6: lie and it's all a waste of time. Um, so 268 00:12:52,070 --> 00:12:55,350 S6: it really all it does all hinge on that, because 269 00:12:55,350 --> 00:12:58,429 S6: if Jesus had just died on the cross, everyone would 270 00:12:58,470 --> 00:13:02,470 S6: have just concluded that he was yet another failed, you know, 271 00:13:02,510 --> 00:13:07,150 S6: failed sort of hero figure, failed Messiah. Um, but it 272 00:13:07,150 --> 00:13:11,350 S6: was the resurrection that made people realize what the cross 273 00:13:11,630 --> 00:13:14,030 S6: had actually meant. You know that Jesus had been saying 274 00:13:14,030 --> 00:13:16,190 S6: it was going to be on purpose, that, you know, 275 00:13:16,390 --> 00:13:21,910 S6: in some ways the resurrection, uh, vindicates everything else about Christianity. 276 00:13:21,950 --> 00:13:25,030 S6: It vindicates everything Jesus said about himself that he was, 277 00:13:25,070 --> 00:13:28,310 S6: you know, the creator coming to introduce himself to us 278 00:13:28,309 --> 00:13:30,910 S6: as a human being. You know, why would you believe? Like, 279 00:13:30,950 --> 00:13:34,350 S6: why would you believe that? Well, if he came back 280 00:13:34,350 --> 00:13:36,050 S6: from the dead, that would be a pretty good reason 281 00:13:36,050 --> 00:13:38,730 S6: to believe what he was talking about. So it really, 282 00:13:38,770 --> 00:13:41,770 S6: it feels to me like it's the it's the door 283 00:13:41,809 --> 00:13:45,050 S6: that opens up onto everything else about Jesus and, and 284 00:13:45,090 --> 00:13:48,970 S6: then through him, everything else about Christianity. But it's this 285 00:13:48,970 --> 00:13:53,330 S6: door that you can actually walk through by engaging with 286 00:13:53,370 --> 00:13:56,410 S6: the the fact of it and the, um, the history 287 00:13:56,410 --> 00:13:59,329 S6: of it. And you can see that it's not just 288 00:13:59,610 --> 00:14:02,410 S6: one of many worldviews that you might choose to believe, 289 00:14:02,450 --> 00:14:04,610 S6: because it seems like a nice idea. You know, it's 290 00:14:04,650 --> 00:14:06,730 S6: it it really happened. Mhm. 291 00:14:07,050 --> 00:14:09,530 S1: Now you make the point in the book that problem 292 00:14:09,530 --> 00:14:11,650 S1: is that if death is the end of it, then 293 00:14:11,650 --> 00:14:15,370 S1: that's it. But if Jesus rose from the dead, uh oh. 294 00:14:15,410 --> 00:14:18,850 S1: That changes everything about what we think about death. And 295 00:14:18,850 --> 00:14:20,690 S1: then you turn to the cross and you say there 296 00:14:20,730 --> 00:14:23,290 S1: are two key issues that the cross represent. One is 297 00:14:23,290 --> 00:14:25,850 S1: love and the other is justice. And for the person 298 00:14:25,850 --> 00:14:27,890 S1: who doesn't yet know the Lord as their personal savior, 299 00:14:27,890 --> 00:14:30,810 S1: they might think, well, that's incongruous. What do love and 300 00:14:30,810 --> 00:14:33,180 S1: justice have to do with each other? And how can 301 00:14:33,220 --> 00:14:36,420 S1: both of those be manifest by the completed act of Calvary? 302 00:14:36,460 --> 00:14:37,260 S1: What does that mean? 303 00:14:38,740 --> 00:14:41,660 S6: Um, well, I mean, so I talk about in the 304 00:14:41,660 --> 00:14:45,660 S6: book how if if Jesus Rose, then it tells you 305 00:14:45,660 --> 00:14:48,100 S6: that his death was on purpose and he explained that 306 00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:52,060 S6: he was dying. He was willingly dying for us. You know, 307 00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:54,980 S6: he talks about dying as a ransom for many to 308 00:14:55,020 --> 00:14:58,780 S6: set us free. Um, and he explained that that's because 309 00:14:58,780 --> 00:15:02,380 S6: we need to be set free from our sin, our selfishness, 310 00:15:02,380 --> 00:15:04,980 S6: the ways we ignore God and the ways we hurt 311 00:15:05,020 --> 00:15:12,820 S6: other people and, um, the the deadly consequences of that wrongdoing. 312 00:15:13,140 --> 00:15:15,220 S6: And he basically said, look, what I'm going to do 313 00:15:15,220 --> 00:15:16,820 S6: on the cross. I'm going to take all of that 314 00:15:16,820 --> 00:15:19,820 S6: wrongdoing onto my own shoulders. I'm going to lift it off. 315 00:15:19,860 --> 00:15:21,980 S6: Off you. If you trust me, I'm going to put 316 00:15:21,980 --> 00:15:23,420 S6: it all on myself, and I'm going to let it 317 00:15:23,460 --> 00:15:27,100 S6: crush me instead. And then he rises from the dead 318 00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:30,060 S6: and shows us that he really has done that, and 319 00:15:30,060 --> 00:15:32,310 S6: he can offer us the life and the joy and 320 00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:35,190 S6: the freedom that he deserves that belongs to him. He 321 00:15:35,190 --> 00:15:38,990 S6: shares it with us. And then, yeah, I talk in 322 00:15:38,990 --> 00:15:43,750 S6: the book about justice because I think if Jesus didn't 323 00:15:43,750 --> 00:15:46,950 S6: rise from the dead, and we have no real grounds 324 00:15:46,950 --> 00:15:53,990 S6: to hope or expect that there's life beyond death, then we, 325 00:15:54,750 --> 00:15:58,990 S6: like the vast majority of people through history who have 326 00:15:58,990 --> 00:16:02,470 S6: suffered terrible injustice and evil at the hands of others, 327 00:16:03,550 --> 00:16:05,590 S6: are never going to get their day in court. You know, 328 00:16:05,670 --> 00:16:09,270 S6: so many, so much evil has been committed that there 329 00:16:09,270 --> 00:16:12,750 S6: is never going to be any human justice for. And 330 00:16:12,750 --> 00:16:15,310 S6: we long for there to be justice. We long for 331 00:16:15,510 --> 00:16:18,270 S6: for someone to say that what was done to us matters, 332 00:16:18,270 --> 00:16:20,670 S6: that what was done to the these, you know, innocent 333 00:16:20,670 --> 00:16:24,430 S6: victims matters. But if Jesus rose from the dead, then 334 00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:27,190 S6: he said he was going to judge everyone who's ever 335 00:16:27,190 --> 00:16:32,290 S6: lived justly. And so the resurrection fulfills that longing that 336 00:16:32,290 --> 00:16:36,970 S6: we have for justice. But because of the cross, that 337 00:16:36,970 --> 00:16:39,250 S6: doesn't just have to be terrifying for us. You know, 338 00:16:39,290 --> 00:16:42,810 S6: it would be utterly terrifying if we thought God was 339 00:16:42,810 --> 00:16:45,490 S6: just going to judge everybody for all the wrong they've 340 00:16:45,490 --> 00:16:48,530 S6: ever done and and give us the, the punishment that 341 00:16:48,530 --> 00:16:51,290 S6: we deserve. But actually, because of the cross, we can 342 00:16:51,290 --> 00:16:54,570 S6: know if we trust in Jesus, then he will take 343 00:16:54,570 --> 00:16:57,010 S6: all of our guilt onto his own shoulders on the cross, 344 00:16:57,010 --> 00:17:00,370 S6: and we can look forward to justice being done without 345 00:17:00,370 --> 00:17:01,210 S6: being afraid. 346 00:17:01,610 --> 00:17:04,410 S1: Mhm. Mhm. You're listening to Mike hood who's the author 347 00:17:04,410 --> 00:17:07,570 S1: of the book. The if that changes everything. What if 348 00:17:07,890 --> 00:17:10,930 S1: you could believe that Jesus rose from the dead. It's 349 00:17:10,930 --> 00:17:13,570 S1: a wonderful book. And let me challenge my friends listening 350 00:17:13,609 --> 00:17:16,330 S1: again who do not yet know Christ as their personal Savior. 351 00:17:16,330 --> 00:17:19,610 S1: But this is the question, because this is the cornerstone 352 00:17:19,650 --> 00:17:25,730 S1: of Christianity that Jesus lived, was crucified, buried, and resurrected physically. 353 00:17:26,050 --> 00:17:29,340 S1: How does that change your perspective on what Christianity is 354 00:17:29,380 --> 00:17:31,500 S1: and who the person of Jesus is, and what you 355 00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:34,580 S1: might be thinking about Christianity. More with Mike hood right 356 00:17:34,580 --> 00:18:03,419 S1: after this. Mike Hood is a writer and church pastor 357 00:18:03,420 --> 00:18:06,380 S1: who loves talking to people of all ages, stages, and 358 00:18:06,380 --> 00:18:09,220 S1: backgrounds about the Christian faith. He lives in the canton, 359 00:18:09,220 --> 00:18:11,740 S1: Cambridge in the UK, and he joins us to talk 360 00:18:11,740 --> 00:18:13,940 S1: about his new book and joins us from the UK. 361 00:18:13,940 --> 00:18:16,859 S1: By the way, the if that changes everything. What if 362 00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:19,580 S1: you could believe that Jesus rose from the dead? So 363 00:18:19,580 --> 00:18:21,340 S1: before we get to the resurrection, and I'm glad you 364 00:18:21,340 --> 00:18:22,739 S1: did this in the book as well. Mike, you have 365 00:18:22,740 --> 00:18:25,880 S1: to talk about the cross because the resurrection doesn't mean 366 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,920 S1: anything without the cross, and the cross doesn't mean anything 367 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,719 S1: without the resurrection. So we just talked about justice. But 368 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,120 S1: I want to talk about something that separates Christianity from 369 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,080 S1: the rest of every other worldview out there, religious worldview. 370 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,400 S1: And that is this idea of love. We talked about 371 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,520 S1: justice being satisfied for wrongdoing at the cross, because that's 372 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,800 S1: what Christ did. He conquered sin. And I'm going to 373 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,920 S1: come back to sin in a minute. But the idea 374 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,400 S1: of love, you know, there are times the older I get, 375 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,080 S1: the more I walk with the Lord, the more I 376 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,080 S1: move to tears. When I read passages like while we 377 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,040 S1: were yet sinners, Christ died for us and that he 378 00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:00,320 S1: became sin for us. Perfectly holy, totally unblemished, and he 379 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,400 S1: becomes sin for us. I don't know of any other 380 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,919 S1: worldview where any deity in that particular comparative theology or 381 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,920 S1: religion says that their God dies. For the people that 382 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,120 S1: are following that particular God. This is what sets Christianity 383 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,679 S1: apart is the love. It's very difficult. You know, we 384 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,280 S1: love to wear crosses around our neck, but in reality, 385 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,170 S1: the reason I think I wear it, number one, as 386 00:19:24,170 --> 00:19:26,690 S1: I must remember at all times, I'm an ambassador for Christ. 387 00:19:26,730 --> 00:19:28,330 S1: My mama used to say, don't put that on unless 388 00:19:28,330 --> 00:19:30,650 S1: you're going to live like him. So it's a reminder 389 00:19:30,650 --> 00:19:32,290 S1: of who he is and what he did for us. 390 00:19:32,290 --> 00:19:34,450 S1: But second of all, how do you look at a 391 00:19:34,450 --> 00:19:37,410 S1: form of capital punishment and see love? That's a that's 392 00:19:37,410 --> 00:19:39,570 S1: a mystery in some respects. And yet it's a profound 393 00:19:39,609 --> 00:19:41,810 S1: aspect of Christianity. Talk to me about that. 394 00:19:42,930 --> 00:19:48,290 S6: Oh, yeah. I mean, absolutely, because the idea that the 395 00:19:48,330 --> 00:19:52,570 S6: God of the universe would become a human being so 396 00:19:52,570 --> 00:19:58,530 S6: that he would be able to die this horrible, humiliating, agonizing, 397 00:19:58,970 --> 00:20:04,970 S6: godforsaken death and his incredibly shocking and nobody would ever 398 00:20:04,970 --> 00:20:08,609 S6: have believed that it was God who had done that, 399 00:20:08,609 --> 00:20:11,010 S6: if it hadn't been for the resurrection, you know that 400 00:20:11,010 --> 00:20:13,970 S6: that would have. There's no other way that the disciples 401 00:20:13,970 --> 00:20:18,090 S6: could ever have been convinced that that kind of ugly, 402 00:20:18,250 --> 00:20:22,550 S6: horrific suffering had meaning and was actually God himself. But 403 00:20:22,550 --> 00:20:25,310 S6: if the resurrection did happen, what it persuaded them of, 404 00:20:25,310 --> 00:20:29,150 S6: and what it persuaded me of, is that the God 405 00:20:29,150 --> 00:20:32,990 S6: of the universe cares about us so much that he 406 00:20:32,990 --> 00:20:37,710 S6: doesn't want to punish us for the wrong that we've done. 407 00:20:37,710 --> 00:20:40,109 S6: He doesn't want to leave us in our kind of 408 00:20:40,150 --> 00:20:46,390 S6: alienation and isolation and death. He wants instead to forgive us, 409 00:20:46,430 --> 00:20:50,229 S6: even though for him to do that justly involves him 410 00:20:50,430 --> 00:20:52,750 S6: taking the whole cost of everything we've ever done wrong 411 00:20:52,790 --> 00:20:55,989 S6: onto himself. And so he's willing to to die the 412 00:20:56,030 --> 00:20:59,870 S6: godforsaken death that we deserve in our place. And I mean, 413 00:20:59,869 --> 00:21:02,629 S6: that's the greatest love story in the world, isn't it? 414 00:21:02,670 --> 00:21:06,430 S6: You know, we every great, uh, movie or whatever about 415 00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:09,910 S6: about love. The the kind of climactic moment, the powerful 416 00:21:09,910 --> 00:21:15,669 S6: moment is when somebody loves someone enough to sacrifice themselves 417 00:21:15,670 --> 00:21:19,390 S6: for that person. And I think we love those stories 418 00:21:19,390 --> 00:21:22,960 S6: because our hearts kind of know deep down that that 419 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,760 S6: is what we need. And the truth is that that 420 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,959 S6: is what we have, that that's the God who created us. 421 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,440 S1: I think it's one of the reasons why. Hat tip 422 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,240 S1: again to one of your great authors, why Dickens writes 423 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,440 S1: in A Tale of Two Cities, this wonderful picture of 424 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,399 S1: an innocent man stepping in and dying in place of 425 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,560 S1: a guilty man. And that takes us to the other 426 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,880 S1: part of this. And it's messy, particularly in a post-truth, 427 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,080 S1: postmodern world. We don't like to talk about the fact 428 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,359 S1: that we're sinners. I mean, the cross becomes necessary because 429 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,880 S1: of the chasm that was created by God between God 430 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,760 S1: and man. Then by man came death. And the Bible says, 431 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,880 S1: the wages of sin is death. So we look at love. 432 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:01,879 S1: We look at fulfillment of justice. But we have to 433 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,000 S1: talk about the reality of sin. Do we not? At 434 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,960 S1: the cross? And that's again when you live. As I 435 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,120 S1: can't speak for the UK, I can certainly observe what 436 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:14,280 S1: I'm seeing in the US. But this is about self-aggrandizement, self-exaltation, self-centeredness. 437 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,320 S1: I can stand in the checkout line at the grocery 438 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,900 S1: store and see half a dozen magazines before I pay 439 00:22:18,900 --> 00:22:22,340 S1: for my groceries that talk about me, myself, and I. 440 00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:25,980 S1: And yet, the cross has something to say about that. 441 00:22:25,980 --> 00:22:29,300 S1: Because the wrath of God has to be satisfied. Talk 442 00:22:29,300 --> 00:22:30,180 S1: to me about that. 443 00:22:31,619 --> 00:22:36,300 S6: Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of us particularly, 444 00:22:36,780 --> 00:22:39,660 S6: you know, growing up in this kind of culture, it's 445 00:22:39,660 --> 00:22:43,500 S6: not easy for us to swallow the idea that God 446 00:22:43,580 --> 00:22:48,780 S6: needs to forgive us, that we're sinful, that, um, God 447 00:22:48,780 --> 00:22:52,540 S6: might rightly be angry about that. Um, but certainly for 448 00:22:52,540 --> 00:22:54,780 S6: me and I know for many others, it's looking at 449 00:22:54,780 --> 00:23:00,020 S6: the cross and resurrection and realizing, hang on, Jesus would 450 00:23:00,020 --> 00:23:03,980 S6: not have done that unless he needed to. There's no 451 00:23:03,980 --> 00:23:08,060 S6: way that the father would have allowed his beloved son 452 00:23:08,380 --> 00:23:11,780 S6: to die in that kind of agony, unless it was 453 00:23:11,780 --> 00:23:15,740 S6: completely necessary, unless it was the only way that he 454 00:23:15,869 --> 00:23:19,750 S6: could forgive us and rescue us and redeem us. And 455 00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:21,550 S6: so when I look at the cross, I see that 456 00:23:21,550 --> 00:23:23,710 S6: Jesus had to die for me. And so even if 457 00:23:23,710 --> 00:23:27,350 S6: I feel like I'm a sort of average to decent person, 458 00:23:27,869 --> 00:23:30,710 S6: you know, the cross tells me, no, Jesus would not 459 00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:33,950 S6: have done this unless you were sufficiently guilty that this 460 00:23:33,950 --> 00:23:37,590 S6: was necessary. But it also tells me that Jesus was 461 00:23:37,590 --> 00:23:41,230 S6: glad to die for me, that that's how deeply he 462 00:23:41,230 --> 00:23:45,230 S6: loves me, that he was. He was glad to do it. Yeah. 463 00:23:45,390 --> 00:23:48,510 S1: Wow. So that takes us to another section of the book, 464 00:23:48,510 --> 00:23:50,670 S1: just picking up on what you just said, which is 465 00:23:50,670 --> 00:23:53,109 S1: knowing the person of Jesus before you get to the cross, 466 00:23:53,109 --> 00:23:55,389 S1: before you get to the grave, talking about who this 467 00:23:55,390 --> 00:23:58,390 S1: Jesus is. And I'm coming up to a break, Mike. 468 00:23:58,390 --> 00:23:59,950 S1: So I just want to get started and we'll have 469 00:23:59,950 --> 00:24:01,950 S1: to be interrupted by music here. But you write about 470 00:24:01,950 --> 00:24:03,629 S1: this in the book, and in fact, you have a 471 00:24:03,630 --> 00:24:06,230 S1: section called How Do We Explain Jesus? And I think 472 00:24:06,230 --> 00:24:08,750 S1: that's important for some people. So and I'm so glad 473 00:24:08,750 --> 00:24:11,389 S1: that you referenced Lewis on this, because really and truly, 474 00:24:11,390 --> 00:24:12,990 S1: how do we look at him? Was he a rabbi? 475 00:24:13,030 --> 00:24:16,130 S1: Was he a teacher? Was he a moral director. Was 476 00:24:16,130 --> 00:24:18,890 S1: he a life coach? What was he? Because why would 477 00:24:18,890 --> 00:24:22,209 S1: you care if you couldn't understand who he was? Particularly 478 00:24:22,210 --> 00:24:26,770 S1: when the incarnation, God becoming fully man, gets on that 479 00:24:26,770 --> 00:24:29,290 S1: cross and then conquers death. So let me pick it 480 00:24:29,290 --> 00:24:31,210 S1: up at that point. How do we know exactly who 481 00:24:31,210 --> 00:24:33,609 S1: Jesus is? Mike Hood is with us. He's written a 482 00:24:33,609 --> 00:24:36,170 S1: very important book to anyone listening who doesn't yet know 483 00:24:36,170 --> 00:24:38,770 S1: the Lord is your Savior. Please, I challenge you to 484 00:24:38,810 --> 00:24:40,850 S1: read this book and find out who Jesus is and 485 00:24:40,850 --> 00:24:44,250 S1: answer that if question. What if you could believe that 486 00:24:44,250 --> 00:24:46,970 S1: Jesus rose from the dead? And if you already know him, 487 00:24:47,010 --> 00:24:49,530 S1: it never fails to go back and reread the instructions 488 00:24:49,530 --> 00:24:52,090 S1: and discover who your Savior is and what he did 489 00:24:52,090 --> 00:25:23,540 S1: for you back after this. There are dozens of talk 490 00:25:23,580 --> 00:25:26,260 S1: shows that address politics, culture and technology, but in the 491 00:25:26,260 --> 00:25:29,220 S1: market is committed to bringing biblical truths to every facet 492 00:25:29,260 --> 00:25:31,940 S1: of life. When you financially support in the market as 493 00:25:31,940 --> 00:25:34,620 S1: a partial partner, you're helping people to better understand how 494 00:25:34,619 --> 00:25:37,780 S1: their faith intersects with their daily lives. Become a partial 495 00:25:37,780 --> 00:25:41,380 S1: partner today and receive exclusive benefits prepared just for you. 496 00:25:41,420 --> 00:25:44,780 S1: Call 877 Janet 58 or go online to In the 497 00:25:44,780 --> 00:25:49,500 S1: Market with Janet Parshall. You are listening to in the 498 00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:51,500 S1: market with Janet partial and we have the privilege of 499 00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:53,979 S1: visiting with Mike hood. He joins us from the UK, 500 00:25:54,020 --> 00:25:57,100 S1: Cambridge Point specific. He grew up in the Midlands, not 501 00:25:57,100 --> 00:25:59,899 S1: far from Shakespeare's birthplace, spent much of his teen years 502 00:25:59,940 --> 00:26:02,659 S1: acting and performing in a youth circus. But after a 503 00:26:02,660 --> 00:26:05,139 S1: year doing youth work in Devon and teaching in Malawi, 504 00:26:05,180 --> 00:26:07,980 S1: he ended up coming to Cambridge to study English Lit, 505 00:26:08,180 --> 00:26:10,180 S1: hoping to become a writer, but found that he loved 506 00:26:10,180 --> 00:26:13,560 S1: having deep conversations about life, the universe, and Jesus with 507 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,560 S1: his friends who weren't Christians. So much of the time 508 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,440 S1: that he spent over the next five years was working 509 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,280 S1: with universities and colleges, and particularly getting along with the 510 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,000 S1: students at Cambridge and Bedford, so he could encourage them 511 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,199 S1: to love their mates and get to know them, to 512 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,880 S1: get them to know God. To that end, he's authored 513 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,239 S1: the book the If That Changes Everything. What if you 514 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,080 S1: could believe that Jesus Rose from the dead? It is 515 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,639 S1: a wonderful book to share with your friends who don't 516 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,400 S1: yet know Jesus as their Lord and Savior. But even 517 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,440 S1: if you do, it's a wonderful book to go back 518 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,720 S1: and understand again who Jesus is, what he did for you, 519 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,440 S1: and the power of his crucifixion and his resurrection, and 520 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,160 S1: why that really is the lynchpin of Christianity. So, Mike, 521 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,280 S1: we just got to this part before about how do 522 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,400 S1: we explain Jesus? I mean, there are people who have 523 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,040 S1: known Christ as their Savior for decades, and if you 524 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,760 S1: were to ask them to give you a description of Christ, 525 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,600 S1: they might be a bit befuddled. They might not know 526 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,600 S1: exactly how to explain it. Now, that's a person who 527 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,850 S1: at least has perhaps a casual knowledge of who Jesus is, 528 00:27:11,850 --> 00:27:14,450 S1: but someone who has no point of reference whatsoever. Where 529 00:27:14,450 --> 00:27:16,970 S1: do you start to explain the person of Jesus, the 530 00:27:16,970 --> 00:27:19,970 S1: only one in human history that ever was, is, or 531 00:27:19,970 --> 00:27:21,889 S1: will be God incarnate? 532 00:27:22,890 --> 00:27:26,490 S6: Hmm. Yeah. I mean, I guess you can start by 533 00:27:26,770 --> 00:27:30,929 S6: talking about how weird Jesus is in human history, you know? 534 00:27:31,010 --> 00:27:35,290 S6: I mean, for a start, he's the he's our dating system, 535 00:27:35,290 --> 00:27:37,530 S6: so he must have been pretty significant. You know, if 536 00:27:37,530 --> 00:27:41,609 S6: we if we're counting the years since since he was born. Um, 537 00:27:41,650 --> 00:27:46,370 S6: but he is totally unique because a lot of people now, 538 00:27:46,530 --> 00:27:49,490 S6: you know, there are surveys and stuff. The that maybe 539 00:27:49,490 --> 00:27:51,530 S6: the most popular thing is to say that Jesus was 540 00:27:51,530 --> 00:27:54,410 S6: a great teacher or a kind of spiritual leader, but 541 00:27:54,410 --> 00:27:58,490 S6: not God. Um, and I mean, there are whole brilliant 542 00:27:58,490 --> 00:28:03,369 S6: books written about how Jesus's moral teaching has indeed transformed 543 00:28:03,369 --> 00:28:07,310 S6: the world. It's incredibly beautiful and powerful, and I don't 544 00:28:07,310 --> 00:28:10,430 S6: think many of us would actually want to go back 545 00:28:10,430 --> 00:28:13,590 S6: to a world that hadn't been shaped by Jesus's teaching. 546 00:28:14,150 --> 00:28:16,550 S6: But then you have to notice all the other things 547 00:28:16,550 --> 00:28:19,510 S6: that Jesus talked about. You know, Jesus makes all these 548 00:28:19,630 --> 00:28:22,790 S6: crazy claims about himself. He says that he can forgive 549 00:28:22,790 --> 00:28:26,070 S6: people's sins. He says that he's going to judge the 550 00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:28,670 S6: world at the end of time. He says that, um, 551 00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:32,110 S6: he's always existed at one point. I love the conversation 552 00:28:32,109 --> 00:28:34,110 S6: where one of his followers says to him, show us 553 00:28:34,109 --> 00:28:37,070 S6: the father. You know, we want to see God. Could 554 00:28:37,070 --> 00:28:39,989 S6: we just see God? And he basically says, don't you 555 00:28:39,990 --> 00:28:42,670 S6: know me even when I've been with you for such 556 00:28:42,670 --> 00:28:45,150 S6: a long time? If you've seen me, you have seen 557 00:28:45,150 --> 00:28:47,270 S6: the father. So he's saying, look, if you if you 558 00:28:47,270 --> 00:28:50,150 S6: want to look at God, look at me. This is 559 00:28:50,150 --> 00:28:53,310 S6: who I am. And so what that does is it 560 00:28:53,350 --> 00:28:56,830 S6: leaves you with a real kind of conundrum. Either all 561 00:28:56,870 --> 00:29:02,110 S6: of those things he says about himself are lies or 562 00:29:02,150 --> 00:29:04,950 S6: a delusion, in which case he's either crazy or he's 563 00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:07,360 S6: a kind of con man trying to string people along 564 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:13,080 S6: for some reason or. They're true. And he's far more 565 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,560 S6: than just a moral teacher. But it would be really weird, 566 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,840 S6: wouldn't it, if the greatest moral teacher in human history 567 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:24,200 S6: was either mad or a kind of evil con man, 568 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,000 S6: it doesn't really make any sense. And so you've got 569 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,640 S6: this massive mystery. And what I love about that is 570 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,840 S6: that it it helps you see that the resurrection is 571 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:37,239 S6: not this kind of weird anomaly sticking out somewhere at 572 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,320 S6: the edges of history, and it's probably best to just 573 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,440 S6: ignore it and, you know, assume that it was something 574 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,040 S6: weird that you don't understand. The resurrection is the piece 575 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,200 S6: of evidence that solves that huge mystery. Who was this 576 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,920 S6: man who towers over human history and who? It's impossible 577 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,840 S6: to explain him away any other way, but if he 578 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,360 S6: really rose from the dead, then he has given us 579 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,180 S6: more than enough evidence to trust that when he said 580 00:30:05,180 --> 00:30:07,300 S6: he really was the God of the universe, coming to 581 00:30:07,340 --> 00:30:10,540 S6: introduce himself to us and coming to save us, that 582 00:30:10,540 --> 00:30:12,420 S6: he meant it and he knew what he was talking about. 583 00:30:12,780 --> 00:30:16,620 S1: Mm. Wow. How important that is. Okay, so you point 584 00:30:16,620 --> 00:30:18,459 S1: out there are three big facts that we have to 585 00:30:18,460 --> 00:30:21,660 S1: remember that Jesus died by crucifixion, that his disciples were 586 00:30:21,660 --> 00:30:24,980 S1: convinced that they had met him alive again, and that 587 00:30:24,980 --> 00:30:27,740 S1: the opponents of Christianity were also convinced that they had 588 00:30:27,740 --> 00:30:30,500 S1: met Jesus alive again. Flesh out those three points for 589 00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:31,700 S1: me and why they're important. 590 00:30:32,780 --> 00:30:38,700 S6: Absolutely. So Jesus definitely died. That's really important because, uh, 591 00:30:38,700 --> 00:30:40,940 S6: if you're claiming that he rose from the dead, you 592 00:30:40,940 --> 00:30:43,180 S6: need to know that he died first. Um, but we 593 00:30:43,180 --> 00:30:46,020 S6: can be very confident of that. You know, there's all 594 00:30:46,020 --> 00:30:50,900 S6: sorts of historical testimony, both inside and outside the Bible. Um, 595 00:30:50,900 --> 00:30:54,219 S6: to say that Jesus died. Um, and some people try 596 00:30:54,260 --> 00:30:57,860 S6: to say that, uh, maybe he just sort of fainted 597 00:30:57,860 --> 00:31:00,500 S6: on the cross and then woke up in the tomb. But, 598 00:31:00,740 --> 00:31:04,510 S6: I mean, it's just ridiculous because, um, the Romans knew 599 00:31:04,510 --> 00:31:07,590 S6: how to crucify people. And in fact, even better than that, 600 00:31:07,630 --> 00:31:12,070 S6: we we have medical evidence in John's eyewitness testimony of 601 00:31:12,110 --> 00:31:14,990 S6: of the crucifixion, which he wouldn't have known was medical 602 00:31:14,990 --> 00:31:17,670 S6: evidence at all. But now we know that when he 603 00:31:17,670 --> 00:31:20,150 S6: says that there was water and blood flowing out of 604 00:31:20,590 --> 00:31:23,510 S6: him when someone stabbed him with a spear, we know 605 00:31:23,510 --> 00:31:26,830 S6: that that's that's medical proof of death. So Jesus definitely died. 606 00:31:27,230 --> 00:31:31,190 S6: And the disciples, his his followers, were convinced that they 607 00:31:31,190 --> 00:31:34,430 S6: had seen him back from the dead again. Everyone accepts 608 00:31:34,430 --> 00:31:36,790 S6: that this is a historical fact. Anyone that's serious about 609 00:31:36,790 --> 00:31:41,150 S6: the history here, whether they're Christian, atheist, Jewish, agnostic, whatever. 610 00:31:41,950 --> 00:31:45,870 S6: It is obvious that the disciples were sure that what 611 00:31:45,870 --> 00:31:51,470 S6: they were saying about Jesus was true. They they would 612 00:31:51,510 --> 00:31:54,910 S6: have had no reason to make it up, because basically, 613 00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:59,070 S6: it's another 300 years before there's any kind of profit 614 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,520 S6: motive for talking about Christianity or being a Christian. All 615 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,239 S6: there is for them is persecution and opposition. And in 616 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,080 S6: many cases, such extreme suffering and death, and we have 617 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,480 S6: no evidence at all that any of the original kind 618 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:20,160 S6: of witnesses to the resurrection, sort of under pressure, under trial, 619 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,320 S6: turned around and said, oh, no, we actually it was 620 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,280 S6: just a hoax. We made it up for this reason. 621 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,280 S6: Please don't kill me. I take it all back. They confidently, happily, 622 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:34,800 S6: and suffered and suffered imprisonment and in some cases death. Um, 623 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,840 S6: for the truth of what they were saying. And I've 624 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,120 S6: got a friend who likes to say, uh, people sometimes 625 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,520 S6: lie to get themselves out of trouble. But it's very 626 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,880 S6: unusual for someone to lie, to get themselves into trouble. 627 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:46,520 S1: Into trouble? 628 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,640 S6: That's good. And, you know, it just makes no sense. 629 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,000 S6: Unless they were utterly convinced they had seen him back 630 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,040 S6: from the dead. And then it's not just that it 631 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,540 S6: was Jesus's friends and followers who were already supporting him. 632 00:33:00,060 --> 00:33:03,420 S6: The perhaps the single person we have the most evidence 633 00:33:03,420 --> 00:33:07,340 S6: about is Paul, who says in his own letters that 634 00:33:07,340 --> 00:33:10,980 S6: we have that he was a fierce opponent of Christianity, 635 00:33:11,980 --> 00:33:14,140 S6: and that what changed his mind was that he saw 636 00:33:14,140 --> 00:33:17,580 S6: Jesus back from the dead. He met him. And he 637 00:33:17,580 --> 00:33:20,580 S6: then goes on to be this key figure, writing all 638 00:33:20,580 --> 00:33:23,100 S6: of these letters that we still have. Spreading the message 639 00:33:23,620 --> 00:33:27,219 S6: and making it very clear that the whole of the 640 00:33:27,220 --> 00:33:32,180 S6: Christian message from the very beginning was that Jesus had 641 00:33:32,180 --> 00:33:35,500 S6: died for us, and then had risen physically from the dead, 642 00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:36,780 S6: and people had seen it. 643 00:33:37,020 --> 00:33:39,820 S1: Yeah, exactly. So many points I want to pull out 644 00:33:39,820 --> 00:33:42,140 S1: of what you just said, which is, again, I'm hoping 645 00:33:42,140 --> 00:33:45,060 S1: that this gets people thinking more deeply about this. The 646 00:33:45,060 --> 00:33:48,820 S1: idea of dying for a lie is ludicrous on its face. 647 00:33:48,820 --> 00:33:51,020 S1: It's just it's antithetical to the human nature. But not 648 00:33:51,020 --> 00:33:55,020 S1: only that, it's the explosion of Christianity after this, especially 649 00:33:55,020 --> 00:33:56,630 S1: when there was I mean, all you have to do 650 00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:58,190 S1: is turn the page out of the Gospels. You're in 651 00:33:58,190 --> 00:34:00,230 S1: the book of acts, and boom, persecution breaks out just 652 00:34:00,230 --> 00:34:03,070 S1: like that. So that would have been if it had 653 00:34:03,110 --> 00:34:05,710 S1: been effective, it would have quelled the entire movement that 654 00:34:05,710 --> 00:34:08,270 S1: people would have. Even if they were believers, they could 655 00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:11,630 S1: have kept their beliefs to themselves, stayed in just the catacombs, 656 00:34:11,630 --> 00:34:14,190 S1: and never talked about it. But it has exactly the 657 00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:19,230 S1: antithetical reaction. It explodes across the middle part of Asia 658 00:34:19,230 --> 00:34:22,430 S1: and then starts spreading over the European continent. So that's 659 00:34:22,430 --> 00:34:24,350 S1: hard for a law to be promulgated like that over 660 00:34:24,350 --> 00:34:26,870 S1: and over again. But it does raise an interesting question, 661 00:34:26,870 --> 00:34:28,430 S1: because one of the points you made is, well, there 662 00:34:28,430 --> 00:34:30,550 S1: were witnesses at the tomb. The Bible tells us that. 663 00:34:30,750 --> 00:34:32,549 S1: What do we say to the skeptic, the seeker and 664 00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:34,950 S1: the cynic who says, yeah, but you're using this book 665 00:34:34,989 --> 00:34:37,750 S1: you believe in to proof text what you're saying. You're 666 00:34:37,750 --> 00:34:40,830 S1: not going to outside sources. You're using the exact book 667 00:34:40,830 --> 00:34:43,069 S1: that makes that declaration. It's funny. Do we do that 668 00:34:43,070 --> 00:34:46,469 S1: with the writings of Plato or Socrates or anybody else? 669 00:34:46,469 --> 00:34:49,509 S1: But somehow there's something about Jesus in this book where 670 00:34:49,510 --> 00:34:52,910 S1: you have to have extra biblical substantiation, or therefore the 671 00:34:52,910 --> 00:34:55,450 S1: only way to validate the contents of the scriptures. 672 00:34:56,890 --> 00:35:01,090 S6: Yeah. Well, what I would say to that is actually 673 00:35:01,130 --> 00:35:03,689 S6: for the case that I'm making in the book, for 674 00:35:03,690 --> 00:35:08,450 S6: the case for the resurrection, you don't need to believe that, uh, 675 00:35:08,690 --> 00:35:11,489 S6: the accounts we have in the Bible are the word 676 00:35:11,489 --> 00:35:13,970 S6: of God or that they're completely accurate. I do believe 677 00:35:13,969 --> 00:35:16,330 S6: those things because I'm convinced Jesus rose from the dead, 678 00:35:16,410 --> 00:35:20,130 S6: but it's that way round, not the opposite. Exactly. If 679 00:35:20,370 --> 00:35:22,529 S6: and like I was saying, those key facts, you know, 680 00:35:22,610 --> 00:35:25,410 S6: that Jesus really died, that the disciples were convinced they'd 681 00:35:25,410 --> 00:35:27,890 S6: seen him and that Paul was convinced that he'd seen him. 682 00:35:28,370 --> 00:35:33,530 S6: Those facts are agreed upon by serious historical scholars across 683 00:35:33,530 --> 00:35:37,450 S6: the board, whatever their beliefs, including atheists and so on, 684 00:35:37,450 --> 00:35:40,050 S6: who don't at all believe something just because the Bible 685 00:35:40,050 --> 00:35:43,650 S6: tells it to them. And the the point is, if 686 00:35:43,690 --> 00:35:46,810 S6: you take the documents that are now part of the 687 00:35:46,810 --> 00:35:50,290 S6: New Testament and you just take them as a historical source, 688 00:35:50,290 --> 00:35:52,420 S6: you just take them as a bit of evidence that says, 689 00:35:52,420 --> 00:35:55,180 S6: whoever wrote this, wrote this at the time, that you 690 00:35:55,180 --> 00:35:58,140 S6: know that we know it was written, then you have 691 00:35:58,140 --> 00:36:01,779 S6: a huge amount of evidence already. And if you add 692 00:36:01,780 --> 00:36:05,060 S6: to that what we know outside of the biblical text, 693 00:36:05,100 --> 00:36:08,100 S6: the references we have to the early Christians, you know, 694 00:36:08,140 --> 00:36:10,980 S6: like you were saying, you know, we have uh, we 695 00:36:10,980 --> 00:36:14,060 S6: have stuff in Tacitus, the Roman historian, talking about the 696 00:36:14,060 --> 00:36:18,180 S6: vast multitude of Christians in Rome in A.D. 64 who 697 00:36:18,180 --> 00:36:23,020 S6: were being persecuted by the way, um, under Nero, very seriously. 698 00:36:23,219 --> 00:36:25,980 S6: But that's Rome, you know, that's as far away from 699 00:36:25,980 --> 00:36:29,779 S6: Jerusalem as Canada is from Mexico. And it's spread there 700 00:36:29,780 --> 00:36:34,780 S6: in just 30 years. And it it is not something 701 00:36:34,780 --> 00:36:37,580 S6: that got made up later on. It's it's a message 702 00:36:37,580 --> 00:36:40,500 S6: that's spread out right from the very beginning. People that 703 00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:41,980 S6: were convinced that it was true. 704 00:36:42,260 --> 00:36:45,339 S1: And is still spreading today. Thank you Lord. The if 705 00:36:45,380 --> 00:36:48,500 S1: that changes everything. What if you could believe that Jesus 706 00:36:48,500 --> 00:36:50,680 S1: rose from the dead? It's the new book by Mike hood. 707 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,480 S1: He joins us from Cambridge in the UK, and I'm 708 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,480 S1: so glad we have one more segment, although I regret 709 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,520 S1: the fact the hour is going far too quickly. I 710 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,040 S1: want you to be thinking biblically and critically about the 711 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,000 S1: questions that Mike's raised in this book so that you 712 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,959 S1: know definitively who is Jesus and what he did for 713 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:38,319 S1: you back after this. We're visiting with Mike hood, who's 714 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,560 S1: a writer and church pastor who loves talking to people 715 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,600 S1: of all ages, stages, and backgrounds about the Christian faith. 716 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,200 S1: He lives in Cambridge in the UK, and he's the 717 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,090 S1: author of the book The If That Changes everything. What 718 00:37:49,090 --> 00:37:51,530 S1: if you could believe that Jesus rose from the dead? 719 00:37:51,850 --> 00:37:53,609 S1: I'll say this again. You hear me? Say it a 720 00:37:53,610 --> 00:37:55,810 S1: thousand times. This is not a book report. This is 721 00:37:55,810 --> 00:37:58,649 S1: a conversation to get you thinking more deeply about books 722 00:37:58,650 --> 00:38:00,210 S1: that have been written that will help you grow in 723 00:38:00,210 --> 00:38:02,770 S1: your Christian life. There is a ton more in Mike's 724 00:38:02,770 --> 00:38:05,450 S1: book that even the gift of one hour of his time, 725 00:38:05,450 --> 00:38:07,850 S1: which is irreplaceable. I can't give it back to him. 726 00:38:07,850 --> 00:38:10,169 S1: I can't possibly cover everything that's book to book. So 727 00:38:10,170 --> 00:38:11,689 S1: I want you to know there's a lot I can't 728 00:38:11,690 --> 00:38:14,090 S1: even get to. And if you're enjoying what you're hearing 729 00:38:14,090 --> 00:38:16,410 S1: so far, please know there's more where that came from. 730 00:38:16,489 --> 00:38:18,210 S1: So I want to go to this idea, and I'm 731 00:38:18,210 --> 00:38:19,850 S1: so glad that you touched on this. I think it 732 00:38:19,850 --> 00:38:23,210 S1: was a very apropos and astute observation in your pipe 733 00:38:23,610 --> 00:38:26,210 S1: on your part, Mike, earlier when you said it isn't 734 00:38:26,210 --> 00:38:28,609 S1: so much the the ascendancy of everything has to be 735 00:38:28,610 --> 00:38:30,810 S1: proved through science. And here Lewis was prophetic. He talked 736 00:38:30,810 --> 00:38:33,170 S1: about scientism. And I think we very much went through 737 00:38:33,170 --> 00:38:35,330 S1: that era. But I think there's something else that's happening. 738 00:38:35,330 --> 00:38:38,770 S1: And you notice the shift and that is we are 739 00:38:38,810 --> 00:38:41,370 S1: dealing with a mental health problem. I think it's a 740 00:38:41,370 --> 00:38:44,130 S1: spiritual health problem here in the United States. But there's 741 00:38:44,130 --> 00:38:47,310 S1: a hole in the heart. So we've got Suicidal ideations 742 00:38:47,310 --> 00:38:50,110 S1: going through the roof, people being hopeless, hapless and helpless. 743 00:38:50,110 --> 00:38:54,270 S1: Depression rampant through the younger generation. So there's a brokenness there. 744 00:38:54,310 --> 00:38:57,029 S1: There's a need to belong, to have a meaning in 745 00:38:57,030 --> 00:38:58,790 S1: your life, to wake up every day and say, this 746 00:38:58,790 --> 00:39:00,630 S1: is why I exist, and I know what's going to 747 00:39:00,630 --> 00:39:03,710 S1: happen when I die. And if it's not there, it's 748 00:39:03,710 --> 00:39:07,149 S1: this loneliness. Paradoxically, in an era where we've got nothing 749 00:39:07,150 --> 00:39:09,430 S1: but social media that alleges to connect us with one 750 00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:12,830 S1: another and does just exactly the opposite. So you write 751 00:39:13,070 --> 00:39:17,470 S1: compassionately in the book about the question, am I really loved? 752 00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:19,790 S1: And this is important because for a lot of people, 753 00:39:20,030 --> 00:39:22,270 S1: it isn't so much knowing who Jesus is. It might 754 00:39:22,270 --> 00:39:25,430 S1: be having a greater knowledge of Jesus than someone themselves 755 00:39:25,430 --> 00:39:29,910 S1: even knows. It might be, regrettably, a greater knowledge of themselves. Thinking, 756 00:39:30,110 --> 00:39:33,830 S1: I'm unworthy, I can't possibly be loved that much that 757 00:39:33,830 --> 00:39:35,509 S1: someone would give their life for me. And so they 758 00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:39,069 S1: step back because they think they haven't qualified. Talk to 759 00:39:39,070 --> 00:39:41,710 S1: me about what Jesus did for us and all we 760 00:39:41,710 --> 00:39:43,230 S1: need to do in response. 761 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:50,000 S6: Yeah. I mean, Jesus, Jesus did everything for us. I 762 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,399 S6: was thinking about this the other day. I remember when 763 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,440 S6: I was going to be with my granddad before he died, 764 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,560 S6: and and I was going to get to pray with him. 765 00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,520 S6: And the one thing I wanted to pray was, thank you, Jesus, 766 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,279 S6: that you've done all the work. There is no work 767 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,040 S6: left for him to do. You know, Jesus has lived 768 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,160 S6: this perfect life that all of us should live. Of 769 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,560 S6: of love for God and love for the people around us. 770 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,359 S6: And what he basically says to us on the cross 771 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,120 S6: is what I said to my wife on the day 772 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,239 S6: we got married. He says, all I am, I give 773 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,520 S6: to you all I have. I share with you. And 774 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,560 S6: basically he invites us to to say the same thing back, 775 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,200 S6: to say to him, all I am, I give to 776 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,920 S6: you all I have, I share with you. And firstly, 777 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:34,760 S6: that means we share with him all of our guilt 778 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,160 S6: and our debt. And he he takes it. He makes 779 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,040 S6: it his own and he deals with it and buries 780 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:44,140 S6: it forever. And And he then says, you know, he 781 00:40:44,140 --> 00:40:46,780 S6: shares everything he has with us. He gives us his love, 782 00:40:46,780 --> 00:40:49,819 S6: his his relationship with the father so that we know 783 00:40:49,820 --> 00:40:53,180 S6: we're adopted as as beloved children. He gives us his 784 00:40:53,180 --> 00:40:56,020 S6: future and his life and his freedom and his spirit 785 00:40:56,020 --> 00:40:58,899 S6: to come and live inside us. And and so really, 786 00:40:58,900 --> 00:41:01,700 S6: that's what that's what Christianity is. It's like a marriage. 787 00:41:01,739 --> 00:41:04,980 S6: It's it's coming to Jesus and realizing that he wants 788 00:41:04,980 --> 00:41:07,820 S6: to take everything that's ours and give us everything that's his. 789 00:41:08,340 --> 00:41:11,860 S6: And then for us to do life together, um, for 790 00:41:11,900 --> 00:41:14,580 S6: the rest of our days, and then on the other 791 00:41:14,580 --> 00:41:17,500 S6: side of death, because he can give us the resurrection 792 00:41:17,500 --> 00:41:19,739 S6: life that he has already begun. 793 00:41:20,020 --> 00:41:21,060 S7: Mhm, mhm. 794 00:41:21,700 --> 00:41:24,700 S1: So you moved toward the question which would be a 795 00:41:24,700 --> 00:41:27,939 S1: natural outcome of the question of Jesus's physical resurrection is 796 00:41:27,940 --> 00:41:29,980 S1: what happens when we die. What do you say to 797 00:41:30,020 --> 00:41:33,580 S1: someone again who doesn't yet know Jesus as their Savior, 798 00:41:33,580 --> 00:41:37,700 S1: therefore has no peace beyond understanding that the best is 799 00:41:37,700 --> 00:41:39,740 S1: yet to come? This is not as good as it gets. 800 00:41:41,469 --> 00:41:46,630 S6: Yeah. Of course. I mean, if Jesus rose from the dead, 801 00:41:47,230 --> 00:41:50,230 S6: it is incredibly good news for anyone who will put 802 00:41:50,230 --> 00:41:54,030 S6: their trust in him because he rose with a physical body, 803 00:41:54,350 --> 00:41:56,710 S6: and he promised that his body was kind of the 804 00:41:56,750 --> 00:42:02,589 S6: first installment of a whole new, healed, restored creation where 805 00:42:02,590 --> 00:42:05,270 S6: everything that's good about this world would be kind of 806 00:42:05,310 --> 00:42:09,469 S6: would reach its fulfillment. But even better than that, we 807 00:42:09,469 --> 00:42:14,989 S6: will be in the presence of the infinitely beautiful, loving 808 00:42:14,989 --> 00:42:18,310 S6: God who made us. And so I love that because 809 00:42:18,310 --> 00:42:22,069 S6: I'm looking forward to an eternity with Jesus, with the 810 00:42:22,070 --> 00:42:25,230 S6: people I love, who love him, and with all of 811 00:42:25,230 --> 00:42:27,790 S6: the beautiful things that he's made. You know, I, I 812 00:42:28,070 --> 00:42:31,190 S6: going to physically be there with a restored body, able 813 00:42:31,190 --> 00:42:35,910 S6: to eat and laugh and and dance and, and it's 814 00:42:35,910 --> 00:42:39,290 S6: just a far better hope than anything else could ever 815 00:42:39,290 --> 00:42:42,569 S6: offer us. But it's not wishful thinking because Jesus rose 816 00:42:42,570 --> 00:42:44,890 S6: from the dead to prove it. And that's already happened. 817 00:42:45,770 --> 00:42:48,250 S1: So, Mike, when you are on college campuses and you're 818 00:42:48,250 --> 00:42:51,050 S1: talking to students at Cambridge or Bedford and you engage, 819 00:42:51,050 --> 00:42:53,049 S1: the Lord's opened the door of opportunity for you to 820 00:42:53,090 --> 00:42:56,529 S1: be able to have these Holy Spirit led conversations. What 821 00:42:56,530 --> 00:42:59,130 S1: are some of the key objections that people raise? Teach 822 00:42:59,170 --> 00:43:02,210 S1: us so we can be better apologists and more sensitive evangelists? 823 00:43:02,250 --> 00:43:07,050 S1: What do they say is their reason for rejecting him? 824 00:43:08,210 --> 00:43:12,969 S6: I think often when I've talked about the resurrection, one 825 00:43:12,969 --> 00:43:15,610 S6: of the things that comes back is people kind of say, well, 826 00:43:15,610 --> 00:43:18,250 S6: that's all very well, but I think I'd need to. 827 00:43:18,969 --> 00:43:20,609 S6: I think I'd need to see it or have some 828 00:43:20,610 --> 00:43:24,969 S6: kind of experience myself in order to believe it. Um, 829 00:43:25,730 --> 00:43:29,930 S6: and so I love talking about, um, doubting Thomas and 830 00:43:30,090 --> 00:43:34,049 S6: helping people see that. Actually, he seems very reasonable. You know, 831 00:43:34,090 --> 00:43:36,050 S6: I'm not going to believe it unless I see the 832 00:43:36,050 --> 00:43:42,140 S6: nail marks in Jesus hands myself. Um, but actually, it's 833 00:43:42,140 --> 00:43:45,180 S6: not rational to refuse to believe something that you haven't 834 00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:48,740 S6: seen for yourself. Almost everything you know, you know, because 835 00:43:48,739 --> 00:43:52,900 S6: you've trusted someone who you had good reason to trust. 836 00:43:53,620 --> 00:43:57,459 S6: And the witnesses to the resurrection of Jesus. You have 837 00:43:57,460 --> 00:43:59,620 S6: good reason to trust them. They would not have made 838 00:43:59,620 --> 00:44:02,260 S6: it up. Because why would you die for a lie? 839 00:44:03,060 --> 00:44:07,020 S6: And so, just like we know everything else that we 840 00:44:07,020 --> 00:44:09,420 S6: base our life on, we can know that Jesus really 841 00:44:09,420 --> 00:44:12,540 S6: came back from the dead because the people who saw 842 00:44:12,540 --> 00:44:15,380 S6: it have told us they've written it down, and we've 843 00:44:15,380 --> 00:44:17,939 S6: got we've got that account for us to read and 844 00:44:17,940 --> 00:44:20,180 S6: to trust and to build our life on. And we 845 00:44:20,180 --> 00:44:22,140 S6: will not be disappointed by doing that. 846 00:44:22,540 --> 00:44:25,739 S1: Oh, amen and amen. You include some appendix in the 847 00:44:25,739 --> 00:44:28,980 S1: back of the book that include, among other people, John Lennox. Brilliant. 848 00:44:28,980 --> 00:44:31,939 S1: Been on this program several times. It's a wonderful, thought 849 00:44:31,940 --> 00:44:35,839 S1: provoking book because these if questions are the beginning, I 850 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,960 S1: think of spiritual searching and hopefully will lead them to 851 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,600 S1: the foot of the cross and stand before an empty tomb. 852 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,920 S1: So the book again is called the. If that changes everything. 853 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,800 S1: What if you could believe that Jesus rose from the dead? 854 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,040 S1: I would love for you to read a copy. It'll 855 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,520 S1: bolster up the foundational beliefs of what it means for 856 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,760 S1: you as a follower of Jesus Christ, who is already 857 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,920 S1: Lord and Savior in your life. And for those who 858 00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,759 S1: are listening, who don't yet know Jesus, who have some 859 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,359 S1: of the questions that Mike raised in our conversation, and 860 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,640 S1: even more that he raises in his book, if those 861 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:06,359 S1: are the kinds of questions that you have, then read 862 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,399 S1: what he has to do. But I challenge you to 863 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,200 S1: start the exploration. You don't know unless you search, and 864 00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,560 S1: so do some exploration. And I think the answers will 865 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,920 S1: be there. And I think you'll find the truth in 866 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,480 S1: your search for those answers. So, Mike, again, thank you 867 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,000 S1: so much for a very wonderful, memorable conversation. And thank you, friends, 868 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:24,920 S1: for joining us. And we'll see you next time right 869 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,160 S1: here on In the Market with Janet Parshall.