S1: What does Passover have to do with our lives today?
S1: What's the link between the Lord's Supper and Unleavened bread?
S1: Between the Jewish festival of Passover and the observance of
S1: Good Friday and Resurrection Day? We'll explore these questions and
S1: more in just a moment. Hello, friends. Welcome to Open
S1: Line with Michael Riedel. Moody Radio's Bible study across America.
S1: My name is Michael Riedel. I'm the dean and professor
S1: of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute. And
S1: I'm coming to you from the Moody Radio Studios in
S1: downtown Chicago. I'm glad to be sitting around the radio
S1: kitchen table with you, where every week we talk about
S1: your questions about the Bible, God, and the spiritual life.
S1: But today is a special pre-recorded Holy Weekend edition of
S1: Open Line. So please, no phone calls today. Thanks to
S1: Omar Mendoza for handling all the technical issues of this
S1: pre-record and for Tricia McMillan for producing. Tonight starts the
S1: last night of Passover, and tomorrow is the day when
S1: followers of Jesus celebrate the resurrection. So I needed someone
S1: to help us to delve deep into the Jewish and
S1: biblical roots of the celebration this weekend. So joining me
S1: to talk about the Messiah in the Passover is Larry Feldman.
S1: Larry Feldman has been working with Chosen People Ministries since 1974.
S1: He earned degrees at Moody Bible Institute in Jewish Studies.
S1: He also went to Dallas Seminary. We were there together.
S1: It was a great time together, and that's where we
S1: became great friends. He's been a believer since 1972. Larry
S1: also contributed a chapter to the book Messiah in the Passover,
S1: linked at our website at openline. Most of you know
S1: that Larry is my friend who's closer than a brother.
S1: I don't know anyone who has a more holistic or
S1: thorough knowledge of Scripture than Larry does. And I want
S1: to say thank you for joining me today, Larry.
S2: My pleasure to be back on the show. I always
S2: enjoy being with you and the listeners for the show.
S1: Yeah, it's always great. Particularly, I know your expertise about
S1: Passover because you wrote a chapter in a book. It's
S1: actually it appears in two books, a bigger book, which
S1: is going to be our featured resource today. It's called
S1: Messiah in the Passover. But you also wrote a chapter
S1: in a book, the same chapter. It's called The Gospel
S1: in the Passover. And your chapter, sharing the gospel through
S1: the Passover is just such an exceptional chapter, such an
S1: exceptional piece of work, that really I thought that as
S1: we go through that, we're going to talk about it
S1: and we'll be able to help our listeners really have
S1: a better understanding of the bridge between Passover and the
S1: celebration that is happening this weekend for them. So let's
S1: get started. Okay. Let's talk a little bit about what
S1: Passover is. What how would how can we describe Passover
S1: in just a few words? What would you say?
S2: Well, I would say actually I begin it in my
S2: chapter that Passover, the if you're going to think of
S2: one word, you think of redemption. Passover is the story
S2: of redemption. God purchasing us from our sin with the
S2: blood of the Passover Lamb, which was a picture of
S2: Yeshua Jesus dying for our sins. And so we're the
S2: redemption purchase of the Jewish people out of Egypt was
S2: a picture of the Lord's redemption for Jew and Gentile
S2: for the whole world. So really, short word. It's redemption
S2: for all people.
S1: You know, a lot of times people ask me if
S1: if I celebrate Passover and I say always, it's actually
S1: it's it's the best holiday of the year for me.
S1: And the reason is it's just what you're saying. It's
S1: a celebration of redemption. And I say I get double
S1: celebration because you and I, when we celebrate Passover, we
S1: celebrate redemption from slavery in Egypt, and we also celebrate
S1: redemption from slavery to sin through our Lord Yeshua. Our
S1: Lord Jesus, our the the Messiah. And so the Passover Lamb.
S1: And so that's why it's a double celebration for those
S1: of us who know Messiah, right?
S2: Well, well, you know, also from our Gentile friends, they
S2: sort of look with envy upon us because when we
S2: become believers, when we accept Yeshua Jesus as our Messiah,
S2: the Passover becomes real. It's just it's real for us
S2: every year. But now we understand the full meaning of it,
S2: and it just doubles our blessing and our abundance and
S2: our joy when we realize that our Messiah that we've
S2: always seen, actually the redemption story is fulfilled in Yeshua
S2: or Messiah. So it's a real blessing for us. And
S2: and it's just the story of our salvation.
S1: I think that's why so many of the non-Jewish friends
S1: that we have who love Yeshua, love the Messiah, Jesus,
S1: they want to celebrate Passover like here at Moody Bible Institute.
S1: I lead a Passover celebration for the student body. And
S1: obviously we have a few Messianic Jewish students. But the,
S1: you know, hundreds of non-Jewish students come because they want
S1: to learn, they want to celebrate. It is so meaningful
S1: to them, too. So that's what we're going to talk about.
S1: You know, when I say we have a Passover celebration,
S1: what I mean is we have a Passover, a messianic
S1: Passover Seder, and so much of what we're talking about
S1: revolves around the Seder. So the word seder means order
S1: or service. But what are we talking about when we're
S1: talking about a Passover Seder?
S2: Well, as we go through the Seder, it's the story
S2: actually found in Genesis. I'm sorry. Exodus chapter 12. When
S2: God brought our people out of Egypt and they sacrificed
S2: the blood of the lamb and that lamb, that blood,
S2: was to redeem them from the slavery of Egypt. So
S2: when we go through this story, almost all the elements
S2: are a picture, really, of that redemption that we've fulfilled
S2: in Yeshua, the Messiah. So it's but now a lot
S2: of times the Gentiles. non-Jewish people ask me why they
S2: should be doing it, and I really enjoy that when
S2: they ask that, because it's so not just meaningful for me,
S2: but I tell non-Jewish people that they should be celebrating
S2: the Passover for a number of reasons. Actually, I give
S2: a very short if I can, Mike, just a couple
S2: of reasons. One is that it's going to be a
S2: blessing to you. As promised in Genesis chapter 12, verse three,
S2: I will bless those who bless you, and I will
S2: curse those who curse you. And the non-Jewish people should
S2: realize that The Passover comes about because somebody tried to
S2: curse our people. Pharaoh tried it. And I sometimes joke
S2: about it that Pharaoh tried it. And then Haman tried
S2: it and Antiochus tried it. And I said, so now
S2: we have enough Jewish holidays. Now it's time to just
S2: bless our people. But there was a great blessing for
S2: them to realize it all came about because someone actually
S2: tried to curse our people. But also in first Corinthians
S2: chapter five, the Apostle Paul applies his holiday to non-Jewish
S2: people as well, and where he brings out the idea
S2: of leaven being evil and malice and wickedness. He says
S2: to clean out your life. So in some sense, where
S2: Jewish people would clean out the leaven, Gentile people, non-Jewish
S2: people should also search out when they become believers to
S2: change their life and clean up their life. And also
S2: I tell them finally in Luke chapter 22, that they
S2: should know that when they take the Lord's Supper, they're
S2: really taking a miniature Passover feast. Yeah. It proclaims the
S2: death of Messiah.
S1: So every time they have a Lord's Supper, they're celebrating Passover.
S1: In a sense, right? Yeah. Right now. But the ceremonial meal,
S1: the Seder, I think is interesting because there's a book
S1: that goes with the ceremonial meal, the Haggadah, which has
S1: all the traditions. And there's a plate that has that.
S1: The book kind of follows what's on this plate, and
S1: there's these ceremonial objects that before we ever eat any food,
S1: we're eating and interacting about these different ceremonial foods on
S1: the Seder plate. And, uh, and so let's talk about
S1: one of the elements on the Seder plate that you're
S1: going to find. And I think that this is really
S1: crucial because it seems like such a inconsequential bit of food.
S1: It's called parsley. Why is there parsley on on a
S1: On a Seder plate.
S2: Well, I do want to mention that you're going to
S2: mention a number that in this book they have some
S2: great chapters, but also one of the chapters takes them
S2: through the whole Passover Seder themselves. Yeah. So they if
S2: they get this book, they'll be able to follow the
S2: whole Seder. But the party is really interesting because it's
S2: a sponge like plant that it represents a sponge like
S2: plant called hyssop from the ancient biblical times, the hyssop.
S2: And it was like a sponge like plant that when
S2: the Jewish people would sacrifice the lamb and shed the
S2: blood and put it in a bowl, they would dip
S2: this sponge like plant in the blood and place it
S2: on the doorposts in the upper portion of the door,
S2: so that when the angel of death came, they would
S2: see the blood they put on the door, and they
S2: would pass over that person's house, and they would pass
S2: from death into life. When Jewish people today take that,
S2: they explained it in a number of different ways because
S2: they would say, first, it's green, which represents the green
S2: of springtime when God brought forth our Jewish people out
S2: of slavery, out of Egypt, and set them free, but
S2: also they dip it in a saltwater solution and they
S2: dip it twice, once just to remind us of the
S2: tears of our forefathers in Egypt. And second, they dip
S2: a second time to remind, remind themselves that they went
S2: through the Red sea, which was also salty. And so
S2: it's very, very symbolic of the events that took place.
S2: But even finally, what where Jewish people are supposed to
S2: remember is what I said before, that it's a dipping
S2: in the blood of the Passover lamb and which would
S2: cover them, and they would. I don't think they fully
S2: understood back in Moses time what they were doing, but
S2: they did it by faith. And today, when we accept
S2: Yeshua Jesus as our Messiah, it's as if we've taken
S2: that parsley, dipped it in the blood of Messiah, and
S2: he covers us with his death, his blood, and that
S2: we passed from death into life.
S1: Yeah. You know, the Seder plate has so many wonderful
S1: pictures that we need to talk about in just a moment.
S1: So what we're going to do is we're going to
S1: take a little break here, uh, and we're going to
S1: come back in a moment to talk to Larry Feldman
S1: about other elements on the the Passover Seder plate. You're
S1: listening to a special Passover edition of Open Line with me,
S1: Michael Ray Dolnick, and my guest, Larry Feldman. Stay right there.
S1: We'll be back in a moment to talk more about Passover.
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S1: Welcome back to Open Line with me. Doctor Michael Ray.
S1: This is a special pre-recorded holiday weekend edition of Open Line.
S1: And this special Passover hour has my guest, Larry Feldman.
S1: He's a messianic rabbi. He leads Congregation Shuva Yisrael in Irvine, California.
S1: He also is the Western regional director for Chosen People Ministries,
S1: and he is also my very good friend. Remember, you
S1: can stay in touch with Open Line every day with
S1: our website Open Line Radio.com when you go there Openlibrary.org.
S1: It has links to everything you might need from us,
S1: whether you want to send an email or if you
S1: want to go on Facebook and interact with us there.
S1: It also has past programs. It's got other important links.
S1: So remember go to Open Line Openline radio org. Well, Larry,
S1: let's let's, uh, pick it up. We're talking about the
S1: Seder or the service plate. The Seder plate that has
S1: different elements on it. We've talked about parsley, but I
S1: find in my life the most significant element on the
S1: Seder plate is a shank bone of a lamb. And
S1: that's interesting to me because I come from a tradition
S1: in my family where we never ate lamb for Passover,
S1: even though that was the biblical food that we were
S1: supposed to eat. Since the destruction of the temple, many
S1: Jewish people don't eat lamb at Passover, but we have
S1: the the shank bone of a lamb on the Seder
S1: plate to make us think of the lamb. What's up
S1: with that?
S2: Well, we we as well, like you in our tradition,
S2: we did not eat lamb. It is taken from the
S2: command in Exodus chapter 12. We see it also in
S2: Deuteronomy chapter 16, where Moses tells the Jewish people on
S2: a certain day of the month they shall take the lamb,
S2: and they shall sacrifice it. And so and then they
S2: shall eat the whole lamb that night at Passover. So
S2: today we traditionally our families would go to the butcher
S2: and get a shank bone of a lamb, and we
S2: would have that on our plate. And the father would
S2: traditionally hold up that lamb, and he would say that
S2: we don't have a lamb today. We don't have the
S2: sacrifice anymore. All we have left of the ancient sacrifice
S2: is this shankbone. And so, symbolically, the shankbone is supposed
S2: to represent the lamb that was slain at Passover. And
S2: so where they would say the shankbone is symbolic of
S2: the Lamb of Passover, we would say that the Messiah,
S2: that that lamb, Passover, was symbolic of the Messiah yet
S2: to come.
S1: Yeah. And even more significantly, when we celebrate Passover, we
S1: hold up the shankbone of the lamb, and we're reminded
S1: of what John said. Yochanan, John the Baptist, the Immerser, said,
S1: when when he saw Yeshua coming to be immersed, he said,
S1: Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin
S1: of the world. That lamb was spotless, had no fault
S1: or blemish. Yeshua was sinless. That lamb was slain and
S1: so was the Messiah, Jesus slain on our behalf. And
S1: just as God passed over the the, the, the, the,
S1: the sentence of death on the firstborn, on those homes
S1: that had the blood of the Passover lamb on their doorposts.
S1: So when we apply the blood of Messiah Yeshua to
S1: the doorposts of our heart, God passes over judgment on us.
S1: It is a wonderful picture of what Paul says that Messiah,
S1: our Passover, has been sacrificed for us. It is, I
S1: think that's the. Wouldn't you say that that is the
S1: most crucial part of the.
S2: I would say. Yeah. I see, I happen to be
S2: an evangelist and I love sharing the good news of
S2: the Messiah. And so I love the whole Passover meal,
S2: but I love when we do get to that shankbone.
S2: And I'm able to focus in on the importance of
S2: the sacrifice. And as you said, I love holding it
S2: up very high and showing the people that when John
S2: Yohannan walked and he saw the Messiah, he pointed to him,
S2: and I hold up that shankbone and said, behold, the
S2: Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.
S2: It all points to our Messiah Yeshua. That's the beauty
S2: of this whole holiday, and that Shankbone is the centerpiece
S2: of it.
S1: And, you know, there's a couple of other things on
S1: the Seder plate that that are significant. There's salt water
S1: and there's horseradish or bitter herb. Uh, and it's become
S1: almost a little bit of a joke at seders, you know.
S1: How hot is the horseradish? And.
S2: Right.
S1: And. Right. And oh, if it gets really hot, people
S1: run up and down. I once led a Seder at
S1: my home, and I had a student at Moody, and
S1: when he took some of the horseradish, we had some
S1: of the hottest horseradish that year that I've ever had.
S1: And he couldn't breathe. He ran out of the house.
S1: He was choking it up. And, you know, that's kind
S1: of funny, but there's a very serious part of having horseradish.
S1: What's the point of that?
S2: Well, you know, it's funny, because if the horseradish isn't
S2: strong to make you cough. And I joke, I said
S2: it's for a few reasons that we take it, but
S2: one of the reasons I say is to clear out
S2: our sinuses. But if it's not really, really strong, I
S2: don't really feel like we've had a good Passover.
S1: Yeah, it's got to be strong. Yeah. What's that? It's
S1: got to be strong. Yeah.
S2: Very, very strong. So you can really feel part of it.
S2: But the idea is that it's supposed to remind us
S2: of the tears and the suffering of our people in slavery,
S2: and it's supposed to remind us of the bricks and
S2: the mortar and the. And the what? They were working
S2: for the Egyptians by slavery. And so it's supposed to
S2: remind us of the harsh bitterness of slavery in Egypt.
S1: Yeah. That's the it is supposed to bring tears to
S1: our eyes, which is why we also have salt water.
S1: We dip the parsley in the salt water because it
S1: reminds us our lives were immersed in tears when we
S1: eat the horseradish, to remind us of the bitterness and
S1: the tears of of slavery. But there's another element. It's
S1: called charoset. And charoset is a mixture of apples and
S1: nuts and honey and wine, and it's all mixed together
S1: into sort of a pasty consistency. And the apples are
S1: obviously are graded and, and it's called charoset, which means mortar.
S1: And obviously that fers to the mortar with which we
S1: built bricks when we were in Egypt. And there's a
S1: certain point in the Seder, we take it off the
S1: Seder plate and we eat it, and we actually eat
S1: it on top of horseradish. I think that's a great picture,
S1: don't you?
S2: Yes, I do. I love doing that part because the
S2: people usually when I'm doing the Seder, first they have
S2: the bitter herbs, the horseradish, and they're choking. And then
S2: I say, now I'm going to give you another mixture.
S2: And I know they don't trust me or believe me.
S2: And so we mix it together with the horseradish, and
S2: I try to assure them it'll be okay. The apples
S2: do help us. And I love the idea that almost
S2: everything we do in the Seder, it's God doing repetition
S2: all the time, reminding us of different things. And so here,
S2: as we dip it in the sweet, uh charoset, we
S2: remind ourselves that in the midst of our suffering, in
S2: the midst of our slavery and remembering the the bad,
S2: we also remember that it was sweetened with the hope
S2: of freedom that comes with Messiah.
S1: Mhm. Yeah. It shows how the sweetness of redemption overpowers
S1: the bitterness of slavery. And the same way we put
S1: the sweet on top of the horseradish, the sweet rosette,
S1: even though it represents something that was so bitter, which
S1: was the mortar with which we built bricks, even though
S1: it represents that, it shows how the sweetness of God's
S1: redemption overpowers the bitterness. And so, you know, a lot
S1: of times believers will say, oh, my life was better.
S1: Before I knew the Lord, I didn't have any restraints,
S1: I didn't. I could do whatever I wanted. I, you know,
S1: moral freedom. No, no, no, that was slavery. And and
S1: we don't want to go back to the tears. And instead,
S1: we want to celebrate the sweetness of redemption. That Messiah's
S1: sweetness that that he's turned our. He's brought us from
S1: the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of his beloved son.
S1: That's what God has done for us. So yeah, that's
S1: I think that's a wonderful picture. But, you know, okay,
S1: I want to shift here for a moment off the
S1: Seder plate, and let's talk about what most people think
S1: when they think of Passover, which is matzah. You know,
S1: some someone once said, oh, you revel in in celebrating Passover.
S1: And I thought, revel. And they said, yeah, you probably
S1: sit in a room going, matzo, matzo, matzo. No, no.
S1: But I do love celebrating Passover. But matzo is like
S1: a dry, crusty cracker. Right. So what is it? Talk
S1: about that, Larry.
S2: Well, um. Well, talk about the matzo. I it's another
S2: part of this. I just love the whole Seder and
S2: everything about it. But when I get to the matzo,
S2: I really, really do like to preach the good news
S2: of our Messiah because of the picture of the matzo.
S2: And I have everyone look at that matzo, which when
S2: we know.
S1: Well, let me just say, Larry, matzo is unleavened bread.
S1: It is like a cracker, but it's unleavened bread. Yeah.
S1: So go ahead.
S3: You're right.
S2: It's unleavened bread. And so when you look at it,
S2: first of all, you notice a few things I tell people.
S2: One is it's it's until 11, which is 11, was
S2: a symbol of sin. So the masa is a picture
S2: of our Messiah who had no sin. But also when
S2: we look at that masa, we see their stripe marks
S2: on it. And then there's two major things. We see
S2: their stripe marks and there's pierce marks. And this is
S2: a picture of our Messiah. And I, I remind the
S2: people that we see this in the Scripture in a
S2: few different places specifically, and in Psalm 22, which speaks
S2: about the death of our Messiah. It says that they
S2: pierced my hands and my feet, and we hold up
S2: that masa. And you see those pierce marks? I remind
S2: them that in Isaiah chapter 53 it said he would
S2: be despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows
S2: and acquainted with grief. And it goes on to say
S2: that that he would be pierced through for our transgressions,
S2: he'd be crushed for our iniquities. And I'm holding that
S2: masa up, showing them it's such a picture of our Messiah.
S2: And then finally, the last verse I always love to
S2: quote is in Zechariah chapter 12, when the Lord returns
S2: and God says, I will pour out on the house
S2: of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of
S2: grace and supplication, so they shall look upon me whom
S2: they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as
S2: one mourns for an only son. So this masa is
S2: such a great picture of our Messiah, and I look
S2: for every opportunity to take out the Bible verses and
S2: share the good news of our Messiah.
S1: Yeah. So we look at a piece of masa and
S1: we see the stripes. We're reminded of Isaiah 53 that
S1: by his stripes we are healed, the stripes of a
S1: Roman whip. And when it talks about he was pierced
S1: through for our iniquities. That's the piercings of Roman nails
S1: and a Roman spear. Uh, and and the, the bumpiness
S1: of it. The bruises that were were given to our Messiah.
S1: What a picture. You know, and I love to tell
S1: people that. And we're going to talk a little bit
S1: more about the Lord's Supper. But symbols have meaning. And
S1: when when Yeshua held up matzah and said, this is
S1: my body, it wasn't some random piece of bread. He
S1: wasn't picking up a piece of Italian loaf bread. He
S1: was picking up a piece of matzo because of this symbolism.
S1: Don't you think that's why he chose that?
S2: Yeah, definitely. We see God always has symbols throughout all
S2: the scriptures with the prophets. And so these the mass
S2: is just such a perfect picture of our Messiah. And being,
S2: like you said, bruised and pierced. There's such a great verses,
S2: as I just read in Isaiah and Zechariah, he would
S2: be pierced. And so it's very moving during the Seder
S2: to actually hold up that matzo and show the stripe
S2: marks that we see in Isaiah 53 and see those
S2: pierced marks and pointing everyone to our Messiah. People really
S2: get moved and see the true meaning of Passover, even
S2: through the matzah.
S1: Yeah, the matzah is it's very, very significant. We're going
S1: to talk about the very important piece of matzo called
S1: the afikomen when I'm back with Larry Feldman. This is Michael,
S1: right on open line. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
S1: Jewish people will complete our annual Passover observance this weekend.
S1: This festival is such a meaningful celebration of redemption to
S1: help us learn the rich significance of this holiday. Chosen
S1: People Ministries, one of our partners, is offering a free booklet,
S1: Passover A time for redemption. Chosen People Ministries is an
S1: organization that reaches Jewish people around the world with the
S1: Good News of Yeshua Jesus. Besides explaining the significance of
S1: the Exodus from Egypt, Passover a time for redemption will
S1: open our eyes to the way the Passover sacrifice foreshadows
S1: the death and resurrection of Yeshua our Passover Lamb. Additionally,
S1: comprehending Passover will deepen our understanding of Yeshua, the Bread
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S1: After grasping the significance of this festival for a free
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S1: the Openline website. That's Openline radio. Scroll down and you'll
S1: see the link that says A free gift from Chosen
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S1: a page where you can sign up for your very
S1: own copy of Passover A time for redemption. We're so
S1: glad that Febc partners with Openline, with Doctor Michael Melnick,
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S1: Broadcasting Company is taking Christ to the world at febc.
S1: Org on their weekly podcast. Until all I've heard with
S1: Ed Cannon, you'll hear stories of lives changed by Messiah.
S1: All across the globe again. You can hear the podcast
S1: when you visit febc. Org. That's Febc. Org. Welcome back
S1: to Open Line with me, Doctor Michael Riedel. And this
S1: is a special holiday weekend edition of Open Line. My
S1: guest is long time Chosen People Ministries Bible teacher Larry Feldman,
S1: and he is also my longtime friend. We became friends.
S1: We met actually, oh, I don't know about 1975 or 6,
S1: but then went to seminary together starting in 1979 and
S1: became great friends right that year in seminary and have
S1: remained gotten just closer and closer all through these years.
S1: I was just joking, Larry, that you are the person
S1: whom I consider to have the the most broad, holistic
S1: knowledge of Scripture. And that's because you read the Bible
S1: every day and you said it's because you are obsessive. Right.
S1: But you know what? I think the Lord uses that.
S1: I wish I had that kind of obsession with reading
S1: scripture every day. And so that's what gives you that
S1: special ability. Okay, Larry, let's talk about the matzo tash.
S1: That means the matzo bag. There's a of all the
S1: different things on the ceremonial table for Passover. There's this
S1: kind of bag that has three compartments, and it's called
S1: a moustache, Tash. And it's got a piece of matzo
S1: in each of the compartments. Now, the rabbis say it's
S1: represents either Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, or perhaps it represents
S1: the three categories of Jewish people priests, Levites and laymen,
S1: the Israelites. But Messianic Jews, we give it a special meaning,
S1: don't we?
S2: We do. We give it a special meaning. And I
S2: like to share with people that most Jewish people don't
S2: really know the three categories that you just said. And
S2: so a lot of times when I'm sharing with you people,
S2: I mentioned that that among our Jewish people, there's various
S2: traditions of what it means, and they're not clear on
S2: what it means, whether it's Abraham, Isaac and Jacob or
S2: the priests, the Levites and all the Jewish people. But
S2: I say it's a very, very interesting thing that where
S2: there's three of them, they're not allowed. When they come
S2: to this ceremony, they're not allowed to take out the
S2: top matzo, which there's three, and they have to take
S2: out one, and they're not allowed to take out the
S2: bottom one. So in a very dramatic ceremony, the father
S2: takes out the middle piece of matzo. He breaks it
S2: and he holds it up high. He wraps it in
S2: a linen cloth and he buries it. And interestingly enough,
S2: it comes back where was resurrected actually, at the end
S2: of the meal, during the third cup of redemption, in
S2: which our Messiah said that that was the new covenant
S2: in his blood. But as they break this metal matzo
S2: and he wraps it up, we realize probably over the years,
S2: rabbis had added things to the Seder, and probably in
S2: this instance, maybe the disciples and people way back put
S2: it into the Seder to remind themselves of the second
S2: person of the triune nature of God, the Messiah. And
S2: it has stayed as one of our Jewish traditions. So
S2: we think that the middle matzo is symbolic of the Messiah.
S2: The top one being the father and the middle one
S2: the son, and the bottom one, the Holy Spirit.
S1: You know, the founder of Chosen People Ministries, Rabbi Leopold Cohen,
S1: who came to the Lord when he came looking for
S1: life and meaning in in the about 1890. He came
S1: to the Lord, and then he founded Chosen People in 1894.
S1: But his wife, Rose Cohen, she had. She couldn't believe
S1: that her husband, this rabbi, had come to faith in Yeshua,
S1: in Jesus. And it was at their Seder, and she
S1: had this real block against the triune nature of God.
S1: And it was at their Seder, he held up the
S1: matzo tash, the matzo bag, and he talked about it,
S1: representing 3 in 1 father, son, and Holy Spirit, 3
S1: in 1 right there. And it's just an object lesson.
S1: But that's what convinced Rose to put her trust in
S1: the Messiah.
S2: And so that's really the only explanation when you when
S2: you see it. And why the middle one? Why would
S2: anyone pull out the Levites? Why would anyone pull out? Well, Isaac,
S2: I can understand because there's a little picture of Messiah
S2: from Genesis, but they pull out the middle one, the sun,
S2: and he's broken. He's wrapped in a linen cloth. He
S2: is buried. That is a perfect picture of our Messiah.
S2: And that's probably the best explanation for it.
S1: Yeah. And particularly what the bringing it back, you know,
S1: at a at a regular Seder, A traditional Seder. It
S1: was said that in ancient times, the rabbis encouraged leaving
S1: a piece of the lamb that you ate like an
S1: olive sized piece, and keep it separate and make that
S1: the dessert. So after you've finished the whole meal, you
S1: ate the piece of lamb. Now, at the last Supper,
S1: the last Seder, I like to call it the Lord
S1: Jesus Yeshua. He took not a piece of lamb, but
S1: a piece of matzo. And he held it up and said,
S1: this is my body which is given for you. And
S1: I mean, obviously, we've talked about the symbolism of the matzo.
S1: What a perfect symbol of his body. Uh, and then
S1: he takes the third cup. There's four different cups at
S1: a Seder meal. The third cup is the cup of redemption. Uh,
S1: which reminds us of the blood that was poured out
S1: by the lamb and placed on the doorposts and bringing redemption.
S1: And so he takes the third cup and says, this
S1: is the new covenant in my blood. I mean, that
S1: is remarkable to me, but let's just focus on the
S1: piece of matzo that was broken, wrapped in linen, hidden away,
S1: brought back. And it is called the Afikomen. I am
S1: convinced that that tradition began with early Messianic Jews, and
S1: many Jewish study scholars agree with this, not just Jewish
S1: followers of Yeshua, but that early Messianic Jews started this
S1: tradition of taking the piece of matzo just like Yeshua
S1: had taught them. The the broken matzo, the little matzo
S1: wrapped in linen, bringing it back at the third cup.
S1: And they they would have that as their last piece of,
S1: of food that they ate to remind them of Messiah.
S1: And then this kind of found its way when the
S1: when there was no longer a Passover sacrifice. This piece
S1: of matzo, the wrapped, wrapped in linen and brought back.
S1: It became part of the traditional ceremony, which just remarkable,
S1: especially because what it's called, it's called the afikomen, which
S1: means Larry.
S2: Well, there's a couple definitions. One, one of the definitions
S2: is just as a dessert, but I think there's probably
S2: a tradition, a Greek tradition that means that I have come.
S1: Yeah. The one who has.
S3: Come have come back.
S1: That's the.
S3: Amazing thing.
S2: And I think what the beauty of this whole Seder
S2: and the beauty of what God does in the scripture,
S2: his repetition constantly to to get truth into us. He
S2: I believe Yeshua was there at that Seder, and he
S2: pointed to the lamb, and he said, This lamb is
S2: my body. And he says, when we take this, you're
S2: remembering me. And then at the end of the meal,
S2: when he takes that cup of redemption, he's basically saying
S2: that every time you take this cup, every time you
S2: take this Afikomen this dessert, it's me again. The body
S2: of Messiah, which is given for you. You don't have
S2: to wait once a year for Passover, but every time
S2: you take this cup and every time you take the bread,
S2: you are celebrating the Passover of Messiah. And that's what
S2: the beauty to tell non-Jewish people that they are remembering
S2: the Passover. That's the roots of it. And there's such
S2: beautiful roots to our faith. And so that when we
S2: take that matzah at the end, that dessert, we remember
S2: that he's come back and he's died for our sins,
S2: and he was resurrected so that we might have life.
S1: Yeah, it's a great picture of the resurrection. It's a
S1: great picture of Messiah's offering with that body and the
S1: cup of redemption. You know, what I think is interesting is,
S1: you know, different people in the past have gotten caught
S1: up in what does it mean? This is my body
S1: and this is the new covenant in my blood, and
S1: that some people actually believe that the matzah turns mystically,
S1: or the bread turns mystically to the body of Messiah,
S1: Or it turns the the cup turns mystically, the the
S1: wine turns mystically into his actual blood. But no one
S1: who has ever been to a Seder would think that.
S2: No, no. The. Yeah. The symbolism of the the lamb
S2: symbolic of the Messiah, the the the cup symbolic of
S2: the Messiah. It's a symbol that's trying to teach us something.
S2: The body was the Messiah, his body, and the third
S2: cup of redemption. Yeshua instituted this. And a lot of
S2: believers don't realize that the Lord's Supper was instituted at
S2: the Last Supper, with Yeshua reminding us that there would
S2: always be reminding us of Him and His death and
S2: his shed blood.
S1: Yeah, and so no one thinks when we hold up
S1: the salt water and say, these are our tears. No
S1: one thinks that they literally become tears. And so when
S1: we hold up the matzo or the cup, when we say,
S1: this is the Messiah's body and this is Messiah's blood,
S1: we're not saying it mystically becomes that which is saying
S1: this is a symbol of Messiah's body and a symbol
S1: of his blood. Well, I'll be back with Larry Feldman
S1: in just a moment to talk about the fourth Cup
S1: and other important parts of Passover. So don't go away.
S1: You're listening to a special Passover edition of Open Line
S1: with me, Michael. And my guest, Larry Feldman. Stay right there.
S1: We'll be right back. Open line is designed to take
S1: your questions and provide you with straightforward, honest answers from
S1: Scripture about the things that matter most. When you join
S1: our team of Kitchen Table Partners, your monthly gift will
S1: help us stay on the air to continue to share
S1: the truth of the Bible with those who need to
S1: hear it. Become a kitchen table partner by calling us
S1: at 886447122, or sign up online at Open Line radio.org.
S1: Welcome back to Open Line with me. Doctor Michael Ray Dolnick.
S1: And this is again a special Passover edition of Open Line.
S1: Next hour we're going to talk about the resurrection narratives.
S1: My guest this hour is Chosen People Ministries, Western regional director, leader,
S1: rabbi of congregation Shuva Israel, Larry Feldman. Larry, how do
S1: you keep all those things balanced? My goodness.
S2: It's sometimes not easy, but the Lord is good.
S1: Well, we're going to keep talking about the Passover. One
S1: of my the song. I think if people know one
S1: song from Passover, even if they're not raised in a
S1: Jewish home, it's the song Dayenu, which is just one
S1: word in Hebrew. Uh, so we sing it over and over.
S1: I'm not going to sing it for our listeners. Uh,
S1: nor will you. I know how you and I sound
S1: on the radio singing, but we sing dayenu and it goes, die,
S1: die die die die die die die, ya know? Over
S1: and over and over again. So long that I always say, uh.
S1: People are surprised. And that's the chorus. And then there's
S1: a verse, and then we sing it about 25 times.
S1: Dai dai dai dai dai inu. And I always say
S1: it's because when they find out what it means, it
S1: means enough already. So enough singing. But that's not really
S1: what it means. So. Uh, you love singing, don't you?
S2: I do, I love singing the song because it's just fun.
S2: And the kids get into it. And the parents, everyone
S2: gets into it. But the there is rich meaning in it,
S2: because throughout the whole song, it's really. If God just
S2: brought us out of Egypt, that would have been good.
S2: We're thankful if God just gave us his law, his word. Diana,
S2: that would have been enough if God just gave us
S2: the Sabbath. I know he does, but the whole idea
S2: of the song is he goes way beyond. God does
S2: way beyond what we ever ask or think. And so
S2: of all people who should be able to say dayenu,
S2: it's Its messianic believers, Jew and Gentile, who put their
S2: trust in Yeshua. If the Lord just saved us and
S2: took us home immediately, we decided to say Diana for
S2: all eternity. A lot of times I joke that when
S2: I'm in churches, usually a big scrappy man comes up
S2: and says, brother, I'm just praising the Lord. I woke
S2: up today and I look at him and go, you
S2: praise him more if you didn't.
S3: But aside from.
S2: That, that if he just took us on. But the
S2: promise in the scripture is I came to give you
S2: life and give it abundantly. At the beginning of our salvation,
S2: it would have been enough right there. But he goes
S2: on to give us a whole great life of faith
S2: in him and a changed life. So it's a tremendous
S2: blessing for us. The idea of Diana.
S1: Yeah. You know, it would have been enough had he
S1: saved us. But he's given us the abundant life. It
S1: would have been enough had he gave us abundant life.
S1: But he also gave us the Holy Spirit to indwell us.
S1: It would have been enough had he given us the
S1: Holy Spirit. But he's given us gifts to serve him with.
S1: It would have been enough to give his gifts to
S1: serve him with, and it would have been all for,
S1: you know, we were unworthy servants. But he promises us
S1: rewards if we'll serve him faithfully. I mean, every time
S1: we think God has done enough and we want to say, Diana,
S1: what does he do? He gives us abundantly far more
S1: than we ever asked.
S3: Well, Michael.
S2: Um, when I say Diana, I tell people also that
S2: when I first became a believer, when we first become believers,
S2: back in 1972, when I did, one of the first
S2: things we do is we ask, Lord, just save my mom,
S2: save my dad, save my sister. That'll be enough. If
S2: you just do that, I will be happy and content.
S2: And so I shared with my mom for 20 years
S2: who had, uh, emphysema. And she struggled tremendously with it.
S2: And she really, really struggled with it. And finally, she
S2: prayed to receive the Lord toward the end of her life. And, uh,
S2: and my father, an Orthodox Jewish man grew up Orthodox.
S2: It took him 20 years and he with me prayed
S2: twice to receive the Lord. And then my sister. She
S2: also prayed to receive the Lord. And the beauty of
S2: all this of them accepting the Lord. Dayenu. It would
S2: have been enough, but he goes beyond. He saved them.
S2: And I say, Diana, for the rest of my life,
S2: because he's been so good in my life, saving my
S2: family and allowing me to share the good news.
S1: Yeah. You have these two wonderful daughters who are adults now,
S1: and they both know the Lord and love and serve him.
S1: It is God. Boy, it is true. When God does
S1: those kinds of things, we sing over and over. Diana.
S3: Diana. Yeah.
S1: Okay, let's let's move on to near the end of
S1: the set or near the end of the Seder. We
S1: go to the door and we open it and to
S1: see if Elijah is there to announce the Messiah, because
S1: it's traditional that Messiah will come at Passover. And there's
S1: actually a whole cup and a place setting for Elijah,
S1: who is the special guest we're going to invite in
S1: at this point. So far, no one has gone to
S1: the door and found Elijah. But it's interesting because at
S1: the last Seder, they drank the third cup, and there's
S1: still a fourth cup. The cup that's related to Elijah. Now,
S1: when we opened the door for Elijah, the fourth cup
S1: is the cup of the kingdom or the cup of Praise?
S1: The cup of blessing. The idea that there's going to
S1: be a messiah coming. He's going to establish his kingdom.
S1: And yet the disciples, they went out. They. It says
S1: they they ate the meal. They had the matzo, they
S1: had the third cup. And then they sang a hymn,
S1: which are the praise psalms, the halal. And then they
S1: went out and they didn't drink the fourth cup. What's
S1: up with that? Why did they leave the fourth cup standing?
S2: Well, in the scripture, actually, it tells us that, you know,
S2: Elijah will come before the day of the Lord And, uh,
S2: a lot of times people say we're still waiting for him.
S2: But it's interesting that Yeshua did tell us and compare
S2: John the Baptist to Elijah and where John actually, uh,
S2: was like Elijah. He was out in the wilderness. He
S2: had a special outfit. He wore a special garment, a
S2: special belt. He preached a special message. And Yeshua said
S2: at two different points, if they had cared to accept it,
S2: John was Elijah. He was playing the role of Elijah.
S2: He was preparing the people for Elijah. And the sad
S2: thing today is that our people missed John or missed Elijah,
S2: and they missed who the Messiah was. And so this
S2: fourth Cup standing there and where we take it, it's
S2: we take it for a number of reasons where we
S2: sometimes they leave it standing because it reminds us of
S2: we thank him for what he's done in this Passover,
S2: but it reminds us of the future kingdom of him returning.
S2: And so Yeshua said at that Passover that this couple
S2: would be left standing. And I will not drink it
S2: again with you until I come, and I drink it
S2: with you. And so it's a picture of when the
S2: Messiah comes and the blessing that we will have with
S2: him entering into the kingdom. And as we leave it standing,
S2: we say, when our Messiah returns, we will drink it
S2: together with him entering into the kingdom. A great, great
S2: final finish for the Seder.
S1: Yeah, it's great to me when I think about what
S1: Yeshua said, that he won't drink it again until he
S1: comes into his kingdom. And so at my Seder, I
S1: know some people, some Messianic Jews finish the Seder with
S1: drinking the fourth cup as a reminder that we will
S1: drink it with him again in the future. But I
S1: leave it standing, and we don't take it at the Seder,
S1: because I want to remember that the Lord has been
S1: raised from the dead. He's ascended and he is coming back.
S1: And then there's going to be a great messianic seder,
S1: a great messianic banquet together with him. Yes. And then
S1: we're going to drink that, that cup. And you know,
S1: that's what Paul's talking about there in first Corinthians 11
S1: when he talks about in this way, we show forth
S1: the Lord's death until he comes, because we're not looking
S1: for his first coming now. We're looking for his return.
S1: You've got 40s last comment, Larry.
S2: It's just great. And to celebrate the Passover, I encourage
S2: Jewish and non-Jewish people to celebrate it. Learn the full
S2: meaning so you can share it with people. Share the
S2: joy of Passover and the true meaning of our Messiah
S2: and the redemption he brings for all people.
S1: Yeah. You know, I just think, you know, no one
S1: is obliged. You don't have to have a Seder. Our
S1: redemption is in the Messiah, the Passover lamb. But if
S1: you can get to a Passover Seder and see a
S1: messianic Seder with all its significance, I think it will
S1: really greatly benefit you, because it is a great celebration
S1: of what Messiah Yeshua, the Lamb of God, has done
S1: for us. What a great thing. Thank you for being
S1: my guest today, Larry.
S2: My pleasure. Mike. It's always good to.
S3: Be with you.
S1: Yeah. As I say, Larry Feldman. No one knows the
S1: Bible better. And that's why not only. I mean, I'm
S1: glad he's my friend, but that's why I have him
S1: on the program. Thanks for listening, everyone. The first hour
S1: of this special Passover edition of Open Line is a wrap.
S1: Stay by your radio. There's a second hour of Open
S1: Line on most of these stations, and we're going to
S1: be talking about the resurrection of the Messiah, Jesus, as
S1: recorded in the New Testament Gospels. I have a special
S1: guest next hour as well. During the break you can
S1: check out the web page Open Line radio.org. That page
S1: has links to past programs to email, Facebook, Twitter, whatever
S1: you need. It's there. There's also a link to my
S1: personal web page so you can find out what I'm
S1: up to and even about trips to Israel. There's a
S1: link also to the Chosen People Ministries free resource. Open
S1: Line with Michael Radonich is a production of Moody Radio,
S1: a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.