1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 S1: Hi friends. Thanks so much for downloading this podcast, and 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,000 S1: I hope truly that you will hear something that will encourage, edify, equip, 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,360 S1: and enlighten you to get out there and influence and 4 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,040 S1: occupy until he comes. And on that note, may I 5 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,080 S1: take just a few moments here to describe this month's 6 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,920 S1: truth tool? It's by pastor Jack Hibbs. He's written the 7 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,040 S1: book called Called to Take a Bold Stand. I absolutely 8 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,520 S1: love this book because it reminds us that in Christ 9 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,480 S1: all things pass away. All things become new, that we 10 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,240 S1: are standing for his truth, that we have a new nature. 11 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,080 S1: Because of him, we should be living boldly. But far 12 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,120 S1: too often we retreat out of fear from cultural blowback. 13 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,600 S1: So I want to encourage all of us to just 14 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,800 S1: stand up for Christ, to be unashamed of who we 15 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,120 S1: are in him, and to go into a culture that's 16 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,600 S1: telling us in no uncertain terms. They're lost and they're hurting. 17 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,760 S1: So if you'd like a copy of Pastor Hibbs new 18 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,400 S1: book called Call to Take a Bold Stand, just give 19 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,720 S1: a gift of any amount by calling eight, seven, seven. 20 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,680 S1: Janet 58. We are listener supported radio, and this is 21 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,640 S1: my way of saying thank you. So that number again 22 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,340 S1: is 877 Janet 58. Or you can go online in 23 00:00:59,380 --> 00:01:02,100 S1: the market with Janet dot o r g. Go to 24 00:01:02,140 --> 00:01:04,180 S1: the bottom of the page. There's the cover of Pastor 25 00:01:04,180 --> 00:01:06,700 S1: Jack's book. Click it on, give a gift and you'll 26 00:01:06,700 --> 00:01:08,179 S1: be good to go. And we'll send you a copy 27 00:01:08,180 --> 00:01:10,060 S1: as a way of saying thank you. Don't forget, you 28 00:01:10,060 --> 00:01:12,539 S1: can also become a partial partner. Those are people who 29 00:01:12,540 --> 00:01:15,179 S1: give every single month at a level of their own choosing. 30 00:01:15,220 --> 00:01:17,179 S1: My way of saying thank you to the partial partners 31 00:01:17,180 --> 00:01:18,819 S1: is to make sure you get a copy of each 32 00:01:18,819 --> 00:01:21,619 S1: month's truth tool, and you get our weekly newsletter, which 33 00:01:21,660 --> 00:01:24,259 S1: includes some of my writing and an audio piece only 34 00:01:24,260 --> 00:01:26,780 S1: for my partial partners. So whether it's a one time 35 00:01:26,780 --> 00:01:28,619 S1: gift or you want to be an ongoing giver and 36 00:01:28,620 --> 00:01:30,899 S1: become a partial partner, that's your call. But I want 37 00:01:30,940 --> 00:01:34,060 S1: to thank you in advance. Eight seven, seven Janet 58. 38 00:01:34,060 --> 00:01:37,300 S1: Or online at In the Market with Janet Parshall. Now 39 00:01:37,300 --> 00:01:46,300 S1: please enjoy the broadcast. Hi friends, this is Janet Parshall. 40 00:01:46,300 --> 00:01:48,340 S1: Thanks so much for choosing to spend the next hour 41 00:01:48,340 --> 00:01:51,540 S1: with us. Today's program is prerecorded so our phone lines 42 00:01:51,540 --> 00:01:53,660 S1: are not open. But thanks so much for being with 43 00:01:53,660 --> 00:01:55,340 S1: us and enjoy the broadcast. 44 00:01:55,740 --> 00:01:57,260 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 45 00:01:57,650 --> 00:01:59,770 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 46 00:02:00,010 --> 00:02:02,010 S4: Americans worshiping government over God. 47 00:02:02,130 --> 00:02:04,770 S1: Extremely rare safety move by a mage. 48 00:02:04,770 --> 00:02:07,730 S4: 17 years of Palestinians and Israelis negotiated. 49 00:02:23,770 --> 00:02:26,770 S1: Hi, friends. Welcome to in the market with Janet partial. 50 00:02:26,770 --> 00:02:29,170 S1: So here's what I know. Just because I've been around 51 00:02:29,169 --> 00:02:31,089 S1: the block a couple of times and I'm not no 52 00:02:31,090 --> 00:02:34,369 S1: great sage or anything, but life has taught me this 53 00:02:34,370 --> 00:02:36,530 S1: and I'm wondering if you resonate with this. So I 54 00:02:36,530 --> 00:02:39,049 S1: think everybody within the sound of my voice is in 55 00:02:39,050 --> 00:02:42,889 S1: one of three places today. You're either about to enter 56 00:02:42,930 --> 00:02:45,609 S1: the refiner's fire, you don't yet see it coming, but 57 00:02:45,650 --> 00:02:48,970 S1: it's there and it's going to hit you sideways and 58 00:02:48,970 --> 00:02:51,290 S1: you don't see it coming, and it's going to knock 59 00:02:51,330 --> 00:02:53,049 S1: you off your feet, and it's going to take your 60 00:02:53,050 --> 00:02:55,870 S1: breath away, and it's going to cause you to stop, 61 00:02:55,910 --> 00:02:58,070 S1: take a deep breath and ask a whole bunch of 62 00:02:58,070 --> 00:03:00,510 S1: questions about who God is and if he's there, and 63 00:03:00,510 --> 00:03:03,829 S1: whether or not he can be trusted. Or you're joining 64 00:03:03,830 --> 00:03:07,070 S1: me today and you're already in that refiner's fire, and 65 00:03:07,070 --> 00:03:08,790 S1: you may have just gotten there. You may have been 66 00:03:08,790 --> 00:03:11,630 S1: there for quite some time, but it is a refining 67 00:03:11,630 --> 00:03:14,750 S1: and sometimes it can be an isolating experience because here's 68 00:03:14,750 --> 00:03:17,590 S1: what I've learned. I love my husband passionately. I love 69 00:03:17,590 --> 00:03:20,669 S1: my children, but they don't get refined with me usually. 70 00:03:20,669 --> 00:03:24,710 S1: Usually refining happens alone where the dross gets burned off. 71 00:03:25,070 --> 00:03:28,150 S1: But I'm never alone, am I? Remember that story of Shadrach, Meshach, 72 00:03:28,150 --> 00:03:30,910 S1: and Abednego? There was that fourth man in the fire. 73 00:03:30,910 --> 00:03:33,990 S1: That fourth man has been in my fires many a time. 74 00:03:34,350 --> 00:03:36,990 S1: Or you're in that third spot where you've come out 75 00:03:36,990 --> 00:03:41,510 S1: of the refiner's fire, bruised, battered, maybe a little weaker 76 00:03:41,510 --> 00:03:44,110 S1: than you were before. That strength will come back. But 77 00:03:44,110 --> 00:03:46,990 S1: here's what I know you wouldn't want for the life 78 00:03:46,990 --> 00:03:49,190 S1: of the world. You wouldn't want anything to take you 79 00:03:49,190 --> 00:03:52,630 S1: back to where you were before you were being refined. Now, 80 00:03:52,630 --> 00:03:54,620 S1: I think that's the rhythm of life. Actually, it's one 81 00:03:54,620 --> 00:03:56,900 S1: of those three places. Why? Because I'm East of Eden. 82 00:03:56,900 --> 00:03:58,820 S1: So are you. And because we're not yet in. Gloria. 83 00:03:58,860 --> 00:04:01,860 S1: Note to file headline of the day should lead the news. 84 00:04:01,860 --> 00:04:04,740 S1: This is not as good as it gets. Phew! Thank you, Lord. 85 00:04:05,140 --> 00:04:07,340 S1: But why does it have to be this way? I mean, 86 00:04:07,820 --> 00:04:10,020 S1: you come to faith in Jesus Christ. You know that 87 00:04:10,020 --> 00:04:11,980 S1: your name has been written in the Lamb's Book of Life, 88 00:04:11,980 --> 00:04:14,100 S1: and nothing and no one can ever erase it out 89 00:04:14,100 --> 00:04:18,820 S1: of that book. But why? Why, Lord? Why that marriage dissolution? Why? 90 00:04:18,820 --> 00:04:23,060 S1: Why that prodigal child? Why that diagnosis? Why? I mean, 91 00:04:23,339 --> 00:04:25,140 S1: all things work together for good for them. The love 92 00:04:25,140 --> 00:04:27,260 S1: the Lord and called according to his purpose. Really? Because 93 00:04:27,260 --> 00:04:30,940 S1: that doesn't feel like that very much right now. Well, 94 00:04:30,940 --> 00:04:33,739 S1: this is when that subject of faith comes into play. Yeah, 95 00:04:33,740 --> 00:04:36,300 S1: we love to put it on our refrigerator or on 96 00:04:36,300 --> 00:04:38,660 S1: our bumper sticker or put signs around our house. But 97 00:04:38,660 --> 00:04:42,620 S1: what does it really mean to have deep, unwavering, immovable faith? 98 00:04:42,860 --> 00:04:46,380 S1: The faith that stands that will not fall or falter, 99 00:04:46,380 --> 00:04:49,340 S1: regardless of the circumstances in which we find ourselves? Well, 100 00:04:49,339 --> 00:04:51,620 S1: here's what we're going to discover this hour. You start 101 00:04:51,620 --> 00:04:54,600 S1: building that faith now because you're in one of those 102 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,159 S1: three places, you're going to start start to have to 103 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:58,920 S1: build it now. And boy, do we have a superb 104 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,000 S1: teacher who's written, I think one of the best books 105 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,799 S1: out there on having a faith that will not fail. 106 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,279 S1: In fact, that's the title of her new book. And 107 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,760 S1: in this book, she breaks it down into ten distinctive 108 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,480 S1: practices that you and I need to put into place 109 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,080 S1: to develop that spiritual heft, that spiritual muscle, if you will, 110 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,960 S1: to build up our faith when everything in our world 111 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,520 S1: is falling apart. Michelle Cozart is with us. She is 112 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,320 S1: a speaker and a coach. For more than 15 years, 113 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,120 S1: she has inspired and challenged both corporate and faith based audiences, 114 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,480 S1: and she's got a story or two to tell about 115 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,760 S1: trauma and faith and resilience. She's spoken to all kinds 116 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,920 S1: of different groups, and she is an absolutely fabulous communicator, 117 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,800 S1: does a wonderful job on a podcast that she does regularly, 118 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,120 S1: and she writes and writes and writes and writes, but 119 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,160 S1: she also loves to coach people. And if you go 120 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,700 S1: to her website and have a direct link, 000. It's 121 00:05:50,700 --> 00:05:52,700 S1: one of those rich places. Ever been to one of 122 00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:54,539 S1: those antique stores we go. There's so much to look at. 123 00:05:54,540 --> 00:05:56,340 S1: I'm going to be here for hours. That's her website. 124 00:05:56,339 --> 00:05:58,099 S1: So you want to do that? You're going to put 125 00:05:58,300 --> 00:06:00,940 S1: time aside because you're going to spend time on Michelle's shop. 126 00:06:00,980 --> 00:06:03,219 S1: Trust me for sure. Oh, Michelle, I can't tell you 127 00:06:03,220 --> 00:06:05,580 S1: how much I've been looking forward to this conversation. It's 128 00:06:05,580 --> 00:06:08,460 S1: just wonderful to talk to somebody who's been beat up 129 00:06:08,460 --> 00:06:11,180 S1: in life. But you know what? Still loves Jesus and 130 00:06:11,180 --> 00:06:15,020 S1: still trusts him totally and completely. Thank you for being here. 131 00:06:15,540 --> 00:06:18,460 S5: Oh, Janet, I have been looking forward to this for 132 00:06:18,460 --> 00:06:22,060 S5: a long time and you are so right. I love 133 00:06:22,100 --> 00:06:27,620 S5: Jesus and there's absolutely no earthly explanation why other than 134 00:06:27,620 --> 00:06:29,980 S5: just grace. I love him to pieces, but boy, I 135 00:06:29,980 --> 00:06:32,300 S5: have been through it with him. Yeah, I can tell 136 00:06:32,300 --> 00:06:32,820 S5: you that. 137 00:06:34,020 --> 00:06:35,580 S1: Well, tell me how old you were when you came 138 00:06:35,580 --> 00:06:36,620 S1: to know him as Savior. 139 00:06:36,820 --> 00:06:39,380 S5: I was seven years old, if you can believe that. 140 00:06:39,380 --> 00:06:41,460 S5: My parents came to faith when I was about six 141 00:06:41,460 --> 00:06:43,820 S5: months old. So they were brand new to faith in 142 00:06:43,820 --> 00:06:46,460 S5: their mid to late 20s. But I've never known life 143 00:06:46,460 --> 00:06:49,010 S5: without Jesus being a part of it, which is a 144 00:06:49,089 --> 00:06:52,609 S5: fabulous heritage for me. Um, but I was seven years old. 145 00:06:52,610 --> 00:06:55,130 S5: I still remember where I was sitting in our church. 146 00:06:55,130 --> 00:06:58,050 S5: I remember it felt like such a long walk down 147 00:06:58,050 --> 00:07:01,410 S5: the aisle during the altar call in front of a 148 00:07:01,410 --> 00:07:04,490 S5: whole congregation of people. My parents later told me it 149 00:07:04,490 --> 00:07:06,170 S5: really wasn't that far of a walk. I was on 150 00:07:06,170 --> 00:07:06,969 S5: the second row. 151 00:07:09,770 --> 00:07:12,250 S1: That's so neat. So you come to faith in Christ, 152 00:07:12,250 --> 00:07:15,170 S1: by the way. I was sick, so I'm just absolutely 153 00:07:15,170 --> 00:07:18,170 S1: resonating with your story. I don't know, a time when 154 00:07:18,170 --> 00:07:20,410 S1: Jesus wasn't the center of our house. But I will 155 00:07:20,410 --> 00:07:23,210 S1: tell you that I do think that when I was 156 00:07:23,210 --> 00:07:26,410 S1: young and because I was surrounded by people who hung 157 00:07:26,450 --> 00:07:29,090 S1: the teachings of God's Word around my neck, I was 158 00:07:29,090 --> 00:07:32,970 S1: raised absolutely definitively in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. 159 00:07:33,290 --> 00:07:35,730 S1: And that was fabulous. And then I stuck my head 160 00:07:35,730 --> 00:07:38,170 S1: outside the tent and there were winds howling, and it 161 00:07:38,170 --> 00:07:40,090 S1: wasn't like what it was in my home. And in 162 00:07:40,090 --> 00:07:41,930 S1: some respects it was like, what a blessing. Oh, I 163 00:07:41,930 --> 00:07:45,130 S1: wasn't prepared for this. And life comes and hits you sideways. 164 00:07:45,130 --> 00:07:47,150 S1: When was your first sideways hit? 165 00:07:47,270 --> 00:07:50,950 S5: First sideways hit, actually was when I was around 21. 166 00:07:50,950 --> 00:07:53,750 S5: So like you, I mean, I grew up kind of 167 00:07:53,790 --> 00:07:57,190 S5: in that nurturing, wonderful environment. Faith is at the center, 168 00:07:57,190 --> 00:07:59,790 S5: a fabulous church. But it was faith in theory, not 169 00:07:59,790 --> 00:08:03,590 S5: faith in reality. Mhm. And so becoming an adult, I 170 00:08:03,590 --> 00:08:05,670 S5: would say the very first thing that hit me sideways, 171 00:08:05,670 --> 00:08:08,310 S5: I got married to someone who was a pastor in 172 00:08:08,310 --> 00:08:11,710 S5: full time ministry. I was a full time pastor's wife. 173 00:08:12,350 --> 00:08:14,510 S5: That had always been my prayer and dream is to 174 00:08:14,550 --> 00:08:16,710 S5: serve God in full time ministry. So it looked like 175 00:08:16,710 --> 00:08:20,710 S5: everything was going according to plan until, uh, in my 176 00:08:20,710 --> 00:08:23,750 S5: mid 20s, uh, six days before Christmas when I had 177 00:08:23,750 --> 00:08:25,110 S5: a one and a half year old. I watched my 178 00:08:25,110 --> 00:08:27,830 S5: husband drive away for the last time. And without going 179 00:08:27,870 --> 00:08:32,470 S5: into too much detail, there, uh, were, uh, patterns of 180 00:08:32,470 --> 00:08:36,870 S5: behavior decisions that I had no control over that took 181 00:08:36,870 --> 00:08:39,750 S5: him on a different path from the one that we 182 00:08:39,750 --> 00:08:42,950 S5: were living. And I was left, you know, 20 some 183 00:08:42,950 --> 00:08:47,780 S5: years old, former pastor's wife divorced single mom with this 184 00:08:47,780 --> 00:08:50,900 S5: kind of mark. That said, I was now divorced, which 185 00:08:50,900 --> 00:08:53,660 S5: was the worst thing that could ever happen to a 186 00:08:53,660 --> 00:08:55,900 S5: kid that grew up in the church thinking that marriage 187 00:08:55,900 --> 00:08:58,380 S5: is for life. So what do you do with that? 188 00:08:58,420 --> 00:09:01,580 S5: Especially when you had prayed for that husband for a 189 00:09:01,580 --> 00:09:04,220 S5: good 15 years. You know, since you were a little kid, 190 00:09:04,220 --> 00:09:06,100 S5: I had prayed for my husband someday. So that was 191 00:09:06,100 --> 00:09:08,780 S5: the first thing that turned my world upside down. 192 00:09:08,820 --> 00:09:11,180 S1: Because it was the first. Let me linger, if I may, Michel. 193 00:09:11,460 --> 00:09:14,380 S1: Did you get mad at God? Because this was not 194 00:09:14,380 --> 00:09:15,780 S1: the way it was supposed to be. I mean, you 195 00:09:15,780 --> 00:09:17,699 S1: did it by the book. Hey, I'm a pastor's wife, 196 00:09:17,700 --> 00:09:20,620 S1: for goodness sakes. I should have gotten five extra gold stars. 197 00:09:20,860 --> 00:09:22,340 S1: That music's playing, and I don't want you to have 198 00:09:22,340 --> 00:09:23,820 S1: to rush your answers. If you don't mind, let me 199 00:09:23,820 --> 00:09:25,819 S1: take the answer on the other side. And the reason 200 00:09:25,820 --> 00:09:28,340 S1: I'm asking is because. And I always say this, that 201 00:09:28,340 --> 00:09:31,459 S1: people like you, Michel, who touch me personally in their 202 00:09:31,460 --> 00:09:34,180 S1: writing and in their testimony, is that you didn't sit 203 00:09:34,179 --> 00:09:37,340 S1: down one day with 16 different concordances on your kitchen 204 00:09:37,340 --> 00:09:41,819 S1: table with Strong's leading the way. You lived it. So 205 00:09:41,820 --> 00:09:44,280 S1: it isn't just written from the mind, it's written from 206 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,240 S1: the heart. And that makes you a wounded comforter. And 207 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,640 S1: that's the kind of person I pay attention to. Back 208 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:59,400 S1: after this. As culture continues to stumble into darkness, it's 209 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,640 S1: easy to lose heart and grow weary in your faith. 210 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:03,640 S1: And that's why I've chosen called to take a bold 211 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,400 S1: stand by pastor Jack Hibbs as this month's truth tool. 212 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,440 S1: Learn how to represent Christ's courageously in a hurting world. 213 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,640 S1: As for your copy of call to take a bold stand. 214 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,160 S1: When you give a gift of any amount to. In 215 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:17,680 S1: the market, call 877. Janet 58. That's 877. Janet 58. 216 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,160 S1: Or go to in the market with Janet dot o 217 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:25,560 S1: r g. That will not fail. It is the newest 218 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,000 S1: book by Michelle Keishat and she, by the way, is 219 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,599 S1: what she calls herself a reluctant expert on trauma, pain, 220 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,599 S1: and the deep human need for authentic connection and enduring faith. 221 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,199 S1: So this book comes out of the wellspring of her experience, 222 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,380 S1: by the way, but a rich knowledge of the Word 223 00:10:42,380 --> 00:10:45,220 S1: of God. And she does break the book up into 224 00:10:45,260 --> 00:10:49,420 S1: ten different sections and encourages us on these ten practices 225 00:10:49,420 --> 00:10:52,900 S1: to get that necessary spiritual muscle. So, Michelle, you were 226 00:10:52,900 --> 00:10:55,780 S1: telling us this story and wow, I tell you, it's 227 00:10:55,780 --> 00:10:58,660 S1: not the way you thought it would end. So you 228 00:10:58,700 --> 00:11:01,580 S1: were a pastor's wife. You had a relatively young child. 229 00:11:01,580 --> 00:11:04,580 S1: He drives away. And boy, this is not how you 230 00:11:04,620 --> 00:11:07,540 S1: thought the story would go. So I'm always interested because 231 00:11:07,540 --> 00:11:09,940 S1: we have a vertical response. We have a horizontal response. 232 00:11:09,940 --> 00:11:12,620 S1: He drives away. Obviously there's a gazillion feelings there, but 233 00:11:12,620 --> 00:11:15,140 S1: what about God? Did you feel abandoned by him? Were 234 00:11:15,140 --> 00:11:16,060 S1: you mad at him? 235 00:11:16,220 --> 00:11:21,580 S5: They're both very much so. I, I was angry, very 236 00:11:21,580 --> 00:11:27,380 S5: angry and devastated because I believed, you know, it took 237 00:11:27,380 --> 00:11:29,699 S5: me a while to unpack this, but I believe that 238 00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:32,860 S5: if I did my part, if I did the good 239 00:11:32,860 --> 00:11:36,500 S5: things and avoided the bad things, then God owed me 240 00:11:36,500 --> 00:11:40,730 S5: a good life. I view faith as an obedient, as 241 00:11:40,730 --> 00:11:44,050 S5: an equation. And so I had done what I needed 242 00:11:44,050 --> 00:11:46,850 S5: to do. I was a quote unquote good Christian girl. 243 00:11:46,890 --> 00:11:50,210 S5: I married a pastor, I prayed, I read my I mean, 244 00:11:50,250 --> 00:11:53,570 S5: I checked all the boxes. And then I ended up 245 00:11:53,570 --> 00:11:59,610 S5: with this very wrong result. Uh, that wasn't supposed to happen. 246 00:11:59,610 --> 00:12:01,770 S5: How can you pray for something for so many years 247 00:12:01,770 --> 00:12:05,250 S5: and get the not just not get the answer, but 248 00:12:05,250 --> 00:12:07,930 S5: get the opposite result of what you prayed for. And 249 00:12:07,929 --> 00:12:10,650 S5: so yeah, it was, I was very, very angry and 250 00:12:10,650 --> 00:12:13,050 S5: disillusioned with this whole faith thing. 251 00:12:13,490 --> 00:12:16,210 S1: So I was smiling when you were talking because I thought, boy, 252 00:12:16,210 --> 00:12:18,570 S1: what a universal in the human experience for most of 253 00:12:18,570 --> 00:12:22,850 S1: us as believers. I think your feeling gives license to 254 00:12:22,890 --> 00:12:25,530 S1: why we then think the appropriate question is God, am 255 00:12:25,530 --> 00:12:29,089 S1: I being punished? Where does that bad Bible come in? 256 00:12:29,090 --> 00:12:32,330 S1: That is just sloppy theology. But I'll bet you 99 257 00:12:32,370 --> 00:12:35,449 S1: out of 100 people think, well, I. Hey, I did 258 00:12:35,450 --> 00:12:38,309 S1: it by the book and therefore I have to be punished. 259 00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:40,870 S1: I'm being punished by God because of something he did wrong. 260 00:12:40,910 --> 00:12:42,069 S1: Where does that come from? 261 00:12:42,830 --> 00:12:44,870 S5: Well, I think where it comes from is that we're 262 00:12:44,870 --> 00:12:47,350 S5: trying to find meaning in our suffering. We need to 263 00:12:47,390 --> 00:12:49,870 S5: know that our suffering, our pain, won't be wasted, that 264 00:12:49,870 --> 00:12:53,750 S5: there's some purpose or significance or worse, to what we're 265 00:12:53,750 --> 00:12:56,950 S5: going through. That leads us then to try to point 266 00:12:56,950 --> 00:13:00,589 S5: our finger at some breakdown. You know, our process of 267 00:13:00,590 --> 00:13:04,510 S5: trying to find meaning means that we have to blame somebody. 268 00:13:04,510 --> 00:13:09,270 S5: So we either blame God or we blame ourselves. You know, somehow. Well, 269 00:13:09,309 --> 00:13:11,550 S5: I guess I didn't check the right boxes. Or maybe 270 00:13:11,550 --> 00:13:14,710 S5: I didn't pray hard enough. Or maybe, you know, maybe 271 00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:17,270 S5: I should have fasted more. Or maybe I, you know, 272 00:13:17,309 --> 00:13:22,670 S5: there's this very, um, a causal causal nature to our 273 00:13:22,670 --> 00:13:26,190 S5: American faith. And I say American faith because this American 274 00:13:26,190 --> 00:13:29,870 S5: mentality is one of entitlement. So we feel it's part 275 00:13:29,870 --> 00:13:33,110 S5: of that American dream that we feel we are owed 276 00:13:33,150 --> 00:13:35,310 S5: a good life if we work hard enough and we 277 00:13:35,380 --> 00:13:40,179 S5: have allowed that to trickle over into our practice of 278 00:13:40,179 --> 00:13:43,300 S5: faith with God, where we take that same equation and 279 00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:47,179 S5: expect it to apply. And we forget God's kingdom is 280 00:13:47,179 --> 00:13:49,339 S5: a little bit different than the American kingdom. 281 00:13:49,380 --> 00:13:52,699 S1: That's exactly right. And his ways are not our ways. 282 00:13:53,020 --> 00:13:55,339 S1: And if he makes the declaration that I have plans 283 00:13:55,340 --> 00:13:57,900 S1: for your welfare, not your destruction, you don't get to 284 00:13:57,940 --> 00:14:00,540 S1: submit those plans and simply ask for his approval. They 285 00:14:00,540 --> 00:14:03,820 S1: are his plans. And you submit to what he's already decided. 286 00:14:03,820 --> 00:14:07,180 S1: So is there a corollary from your vantage point between 287 00:14:07,179 --> 00:14:11,660 S1: developing this strong faith that will not fail and better 288 00:14:11,660 --> 00:14:14,140 S1: understanding the nature of suffering? 289 00:14:15,100 --> 00:14:20,180 S5: Yes, absolutely. And this is where and this is hard. 290 00:14:20,180 --> 00:14:22,620 S5: So for the person that's in a place of extreme 291 00:14:22,620 --> 00:14:24,940 S5: pain right now, this is going to be hard to receive. 292 00:14:24,940 --> 00:14:27,180 S5: So I'm going to ask you to take it in 293 00:14:27,180 --> 00:14:29,540 S5: and file it. Put it to the side until you 294 00:14:29,540 --> 00:14:31,540 S5: can chew on it for a while, because this is 295 00:14:31,540 --> 00:14:34,080 S5: going to be hard to hear. But there is, you know, 296 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,240 S5: we are made to want to avoid pain and discomfort. 297 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,600 S5: That's kind of how our bodies and brains are wired up. 298 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,440 S5: And yet the very thing we need to strengthen our 299 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:48,600 S5: faith is the presence of resistance, of difficulty. It's just 300 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,520 S5: like when we go to the gym and work out, 301 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,680 S5: we go to the gym and we lift heavy weights, 302 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,560 S5: and we feel that resistance against our muscle. And we 303 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,520 S5: don't mind because we know the exertion and the suffering 304 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,040 S5: of that workout is going to produce results. Well, Paul 305 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:08,080 S5: talks about that. You know, that suffering produces perseverance, produces character, 306 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:12,280 S5: produces hope. That is how it works. However, when it 307 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,360 S5: comes to our life circumstances, especially the things we hold dear, 308 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,840 S5: like our loved ones or our health or our livelihood 309 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,960 S5: or whatever, um, we, when we experience pain or suffering, 310 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,000 S5: we immediately think something is wrong. And this is where 311 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:31,680 S5: we've got to shift and realize this, this trial, this 312 00:15:31,860 --> 00:15:35,460 S5: difficulty is actually building. It's providing the opportunity for me 313 00:15:35,460 --> 00:15:39,500 S5: to build some faith muscles that I could not develop 314 00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:40,460 S5: any other way. 315 00:15:41,140 --> 00:15:44,340 S1: I could not agree with you more. I look back 316 00:15:44,340 --> 00:15:46,100 S1: at those times of suffering in my life and I 317 00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:48,460 S1: think I'm not the same person now. I didn't sign 318 00:15:48,460 --> 00:15:50,260 S1: up for it. I wouldn't want to sign up. I'd 319 00:15:50,260 --> 00:15:52,860 S1: like to skip that class. Thank you very much. I'm 320 00:15:52,860 --> 00:15:55,300 S1: always in God's classroom. Those classes I'd like to cut, 321 00:15:55,340 --> 00:15:58,140 S1: but those have created in me a completely different person, 322 00:15:58,140 --> 00:16:01,980 S1: which is so unbelievable. So it goes to again, and 323 00:16:01,980 --> 00:16:03,380 S1: part of and I want and I'm going to take 324 00:16:03,380 --> 00:16:05,300 S1: the back half of our conversation and dive into some 325 00:16:05,300 --> 00:16:07,700 S1: of these practices because the book is fabulous. I'm not 326 00:16:07,700 --> 00:16:09,740 S1: going to get into all. And let me say it again, 327 00:16:09,740 --> 00:16:12,580 S1: if I've piqued your curiosity on this topic, I don't 328 00:16:12,580 --> 00:16:15,020 S1: do book reports. I'm getting you to start to think 329 00:16:15,020 --> 00:16:17,460 S1: critically and biblically on the topic, so you can then 330 00:16:17,460 --> 00:16:20,740 S1: get Michelle's book and do the work yourself. So having 331 00:16:20,740 --> 00:16:23,220 S1: said that, let me back up a little bit. When 332 00:16:23,220 --> 00:16:27,900 S1: we understand who God is, as He Himself has revealed 333 00:16:27,900 --> 00:16:32,450 S1: Himself in Scripture rather than the manageable micro God we 334 00:16:32,490 --> 00:16:36,450 S1: like to make because we can be in control. Do 335 00:16:36,450 --> 00:16:39,090 S1: we have to question God's love? And again, I hear 336 00:16:39,090 --> 00:16:41,050 S1: the music and I'm sorry, I'm not timing this on purpose. 337 00:16:41,050 --> 00:16:42,730 S1: Lea Michele, but I want to give you the time 338 00:16:42,730 --> 00:16:45,850 S1: to answer. Um, does this call into account whether or 339 00:16:45,850 --> 00:16:48,970 S1: not God loves us? So when we're having that dark 340 00:16:48,970 --> 00:16:50,970 S1: night of the soul, when we are in the midst 341 00:16:50,970 --> 00:16:54,330 S1: of the suffering, I know the accuser just pounces and 342 00:16:54,330 --> 00:16:56,210 S1: he loves to jump on us and say, see if 343 00:16:56,210 --> 00:16:58,330 S1: he loved you. This wouldn't have happened. If he loved you, 344 00:16:58,330 --> 00:17:01,410 S1: you wouldn't be so isolated. When we come back, talk 345 00:17:01,410 --> 00:17:05,409 S1: to me about how I better understanding suffering. I also 346 00:17:05,410 --> 00:17:08,890 S1: need to better understand what it means when he says 347 00:17:08,890 --> 00:17:30,310 S1: he loves me back after this. Friends, this is Janet Partial, 348 00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:31,830 S1: and I want to take a moment to remind you 349 00:17:31,830 --> 00:17:35,110 S1: that today's program is prerecorded so our phone lines aren't open. 350 00:17:35,109 --> 00:17:37,510 S1: But I sure do appreciate your spending the hour with us. 351 00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:39,990 S1: And thanks so much and enjoy the rest of the program. 352 00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:48,350 S1: Michelle is with us. She is a speaker and a 353 00:17:48,350 --> 00:17:52,910 S1: life coach. She's an author. She's a wounded comforter, and 354 00:17:52,910 --> 00:17:55,350 S1: she loves to have people be built up in the faith. 355 00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:58,790 S1: Her newest book, wonderful, wonderful book, it's called A Faith 356 00:17:58,790 --> 00:18:01,550 S1: That Will Not Fail. Hey, it's tough out there. And 357 00:18:01,550 --> 00:18:03,910 S1: life is real. Life is earnest. My mama used to say, 358 00:18:03,910 --> 00:18:05,590 S1: and you get beat up and we have an enemy. 359 00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:07,389 S1: And I'm so glad you start out. Michelle. With the 360 00:18:07,390 --> 00:18:09,629 S1: passage from First Peter. I almost took the time to 361 00:18:09,630 --> 00:18:11,910 S1: read it, but I want to encourage every everyone who's 362 00:18:11,910 --> 00:18:14,230 S1: listening right now, before you go to bed tonight, just 363 00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:16,990 S1: take a couple of minutes, particularly because it really goes 364 00:18:16,990 --> 00:18:19,430 S1: to the core of the conversation that we're having with Michelle. 365 00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:22,909 S1: Read first Peter five eight through 12. Okay. It reminds 366 00:18:22,910 --> 00:18:24,990 S1: you that we have an enemy, but we are also 367 00:18:24,990 --> 00:18:28,580 S1: reminded that we are to stand, to stand fast. So 368 00:18:28,780 --> 00:18:31,100 S1: why would God give us that directive if we couldn't 369 00:18:31,100 --> 00:18:33,780 S1: do it? We can't do it on our own. News flash. 370 00:18:33,980 --> 00:18:36,500 S1: But we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. 371 00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:39,940 S1: And in our weaknesses, strength is made manifest. So go 372 00:18:39,940 --> 00:18:42,060 S1: back and read it. First Peter five eight through 12 373 00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:44,300 S1: tonight before you go to bed. Promise me. So, Michelle, 374 00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:46,500 S1: I was asking you, we are absolutely right. In the 375 00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:48,580 S1: West we have a kind of cushy, I call it 376 00:18:48,619 --> 00:18:52,500 S1: cushy Americanized Christianity. Um, and so when the winds howl, 377 00:18:52,500 --> 00:18:54,859 S1: we get knocked flat because we don't have deep roots 378 00:18:54,859 --> 00:18:56,739 S1: and we don't have the spiritual muscle, and we got 379 00:18:56,780 --> 00:18:58,300 S1: to get off that diet of milk and we got 380 00:18:58,300 --> 00:19:00,859 S1: to move to meat. And if the times ever called 381 00:19:00,859 --> 00:19:04,219 S1: for courageous, muscular, strong, courageous Christians, it is right now. 382 00:19:04,540 --> 00:19:08,100 S1: So we we begin to we need to get this 383 00:19:08,100 --> 00:19:10,980 S1: business about suffering dealt with. And it's a question we've 384 00:19:10,980 --> 00:19:13,179 S1: struggled with again since we walked out of the garden. 385 00:19:13,180 --> 00:19:15,340 S1: But there's a parallelism to this, which is you can't 386 00:19:15,340 --> 00:19:17,620 S1: talk about his suffering while at the same time not 387 00:19:17,619 --> 00:19:21,220 S1: addressing his love. We have again a sloppy idea of 388 00:19:21,220 --> 00:19:25,080 S1: what love means. Talk to me about how in the midst. 389 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,560 S1: Particularly that person today who's in the midst of. That 390 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,639 S1: refiner's fire where the last thing you think you're feeling 391 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:35,280 S1: is love. How do we recognize, know and receive God's 392 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:36,720 S1: love for us in the midst of suffering? 393 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:37,800 S6: Mhm. Mhm. 394 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,880 S5: Oh, well, it's absolutely true that we equate the presence 395 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,639 S5: of pain with the absence of God. That's it. Uh, 396 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:50,280 S5: we have such a strong when we are in pain, 397 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,520 S5: whether it's emotional pain, physical pain, whatever, relational pain, um, 398 00:19:54,560 --> 00:20:00,320 S5: pain is so uncomfortable. And again, with our Western civilization mentality, 399 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,800 S5: we have any number of items that can offer numbing 400 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,480 S5: or comfort, you know, from food to Netflix to whatever, right? 401 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:09,320 S5: So we don't want to be in pain. So when 402 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,480 S5: pain lingers, it is very easy for us. And to 403 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,280 S5: assume the presence of our pain means an absence of God. However, 404 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,040 S5: this is not the God we see in the Bible. Uh, 405 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,980 S5: if you go from Genesis one to revelation 22, You 406 00:20:22,980 --> 00:20:26,980 S5: see example after example of people suffering and in the 407 00:20:26,980 --> 00:20:30,340 S5: middle of their suffering, God is present right smack dab 408 00:20:30,340 --> 00:20:32,540 S5: in the middle of it. Whether they see him or not, 409 00:20:32,580 --> 00:20:37,700 S5: he is there. And this is probably not even better 410 00:20:37,700 --> 00:20:43,180 S5: illustrated anywhere except in the incarnation that we have. Uh, 411 00:20:43,180 --> 00:20:45,740 S5: that God could have chosen any number of ways to 412 00:20:45,780 --> 00:20:49,420 S5: save humankind. And the way he chose to save humankind 413 00:20:49,460 --> 00:20:53,820 S5: is to send the likeness of himself in Jesus. God 414 00:20:53,820 --> 00:20:58,500 S5: made flesh, someone we call Emmanuel, God with us. He 415 00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:03,260 S5: took off the perfection of heaven, the pain free existence 416 00:21:03,260 --> 00:21:07,940 S5: of divinity and heaven. God the Trinity. He leaves that behind. 417 00:21:07,980 --> 00:21:13,379 S5: He becomes human. He's born like you know, of a 418 00:21:13,380 --> 00:21:16,780 S5: virgin born as a child, which is its own traumatic process, right? 419 00:21:16,780 --> 00:21:19,700 S5: And then lives a human experience to the point where 420 00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:26,370 S5: he is eventually, um, persecuted, arrested, tortured, crucified and dies. 421 00:21:26,369 --> 00:21:31,250 S5: And he does all of this. So we would know one, 422 00:21:31,810 --> 00:21:35,250 S5: that we have been saved, chosen, loved, redeemed by God. 423 00:21:35,250 --> 00:21:37,489 S5: And two, so we would know as we wait on 424 00:21:37,490 --> 00:21:39,370 S5: this side of heaven that we are not alone in 425 00:21:39,369 --> 00:21:45,330 S5: our pain. Nothing demonstrates God's love for us like his 426 00:21:45,330 --> 00:21:48,650 S5: gift of Jesus and his suffering on the cross. That's, 427 00:21:49,170 --> 00:21:52,210 S5: you know, when we celebrate Easter, I love Easter Sunday 428 00:21:52,210 --> 00:21:54,650 S5: and the resurrection, but I find far more comfort on 429 00:21:54,650 --> 00:21:58,610 S5: Good Friday and Silent Saturday because that's our reality. 430 00:21:58,650 --> 00:22:02,210 S1: Um, boy, isn't that the truth. Wow. So you have 431 00:22:02,210 --> 00:22:04,609 S1: been open about this. And let me ask not once, 432 00:22:04,650 --> 00:22:09,250 S1: not twice, three times. You have wrestled with the issue 433 00:22:09,250 --> 00:22:13,570 S1: of head and neck cancer. Oh, yeah. Didn't want to 434 00:22:13,570 --> 00:22:15,889 S1: sign up for that one, for sure. How do you 435 00:22:15,890 --> 00:22:18,490 S1: walk through the refiner's fire with that particularly? And you've 436 00:22:18,490 --> 00:22:21,710 S1: got a marvelous, marvelous video on your website where. Wait 437 00:22:21,710 --> 00:22:24,150 S1: a minute. God. Okay, you made me a pastor's wife 438 00:22:24,150 --> 00:22:26,390 S1: that falls apart. You make me a speaker, and I 439 00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:28,629 S1: get cancer that deals with my tongue. Talk to me 440 00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:29,510 S1: about this. 441 00:22:29,830 --> 00:22:33,790 S5: Yeah. So I was 39 years old, uh, had somewhat 442 00:22:33,790 --> 00:22:36,750 S5: put my life back together after such an early devastation 443 00:22:36,750 --> 00:22:39,350 S5: in my 20s. I had married a man I met 444 00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:41,670 S5: at church. We had created a blended family. That was 445 00:22:41,670 --> 00:22:43,710 S5: its own challenge. We could do a whole show about, 446 00:22:43,710 --> 00:22:46,430 S5: but I won't do that today. Uh, and we think 447 00:22:46,430 --> 00:22:48,310 S5: we get over the hump of that. And I'm like, okay, 448 00:22:48,350 --> 00:22:51,630 S5: finally suffering is in the past. I can move forward. 449 00:22:51,630 --> 00:22:53,190 S5: Life is going to be good now. And it was 450 00:22:53,190 --> 00:22:56,390 S5: a Tuesday before Thanksgiving, 39 years old just sent my 451 00:22:56,390 --> 00:22:58,590 S5: boys off to school. My husband was getting ready to 452 00:22:58,590 --> 00:23:00,790 S5: go to work and my phone rings and it's my 453 00:23:00,790 --> 00:23:03,710 S5: doctor that simply says, I'm sorry, Michelle, it's not good. 454 00:23:03,710 --> 00:23:07,310 S5: And that day I discovered I had squamous cell carcinoma 455 00:23:07,310 --> 00:23:10,390 S5: of the tongue, cancer of the tongue. The week before, 456 00:23:10,390 --> 00:23:12,350 S5: I had had an ulcer in my mouth that had 457 00:23:12,350 --> 00:23:14,830 S5: refused to heal. We all get, you know, sores in 458 00:23:14,830 --> 00:23:17,740 S5: our mouths from eating too many tomatoes or whatever. but 459 00:23:17,740 --> 00:23:20,700 S5: this one wouldn't heal. And so on a whim, I 460 00:23:20,740 --> 00:23:23,659 S5: went to a ears, nose, throat doctor. He looked at it. 461 00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:25,179 S5: He goes, I think it's fine, but we're going to 462 00:23:25,180 --> 00:23:27,380 S5: do a biopsy just in case. He goes, you have 463 00:23:27,380 --> 00:23:30,140 S5: nothing to worry about. Except he was wrong. And that 464 00:23:30,140 --> 00:23:32,220 S5: day I found out I had cancer of the tongue. 465 00:23:32,220 --> 00:23:37,859 S5: Now that first diagnosis was cancer. Caught early. Best case scenario. Uh, 466 00:23:38,020 --> 00:23:40,060 S5: they said we got it all. You have nothing to 467 00:23:40,060 --> 00:23:42,420 S5: worry about. So I put cancer in the rear view 468 00:23:42,460 --> 00:23:45,659 S5: mirror and never expected to see it again. However, once 469 00:23:45,660 --> 00:23:48,540 S5: again they were wrong. Cancer came back a second time, 470 00:23:48,540 --> 00:23:51,020 S5: two and a half years later, three years later, and 471 00:23:51,020 --> 00:23:54,620 S5: then came back a third time about eight months after that. 472 00:23:54,619 --> 00:23:59,060 S5: And that third time almost cost me my life. They 473 00:23:59,060 --> 00:24:01,580 S5: basically gave me two weeks to get my affairs in order, 474 00:24:02,020 --> 00:24:03,940 S5: at which point in time I went in the hospital. 475 00:24:04,340 --> 00:24:07,060 S5: They did a nine hour surgery where they removed two 476 00:24:07,060 --> 00:24:11,220 S5: thirds of my tongue and then started chemotherapy and radiation. 477 00:24:11,220 --> 00:24:12,540 S5: That almost killed me. 478 00:24:12,859 --> 00:24:13,260 S3: Wow. 479 00:24:13,580 --> 00:24:16,840 S1: Wow. So the reason why. And from the bottom of 480 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,320 S1: my heart, thank you for your transparency on being so 481 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,080 S1: open about this, but you have to understand that what 482 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,840 S1: she tells you about building a faith that will not fail. 483 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,760 S1: If it didn't work, why in the world would Michelle 484 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,960 S1: be here sharing this? If she hasn't learned and experienced 485 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,040 S1: what she's teaching us in her book? Now we're going 486 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:43,280 S1: to dive into the practices when we get back. Let 487 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,600 S1: me give a big shout out to our partial partners. 488 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,719 S1: Thank you friends. Partial partners are becoming the backbone of 489 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,120 S1: this ministry. They're generous. Monthly gifts allow us to provide relevant, 490 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,160 S1: compelling programming every day. When you become a partial partner, 491 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,159 S1: you'll receive private emails directly from me, a weekly audio 492 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,480 S1: message only you will hear, and special behind the scenes 493 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,280 S1: updates as well. Become a partial partner today by calling 494 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,560 S1: eight seven, seven Janet 58 or go to in the 495 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:12,760 S1: market with Janet Parshall. Isn't. Michelle had a wonderful teacher. 496 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,909 S1: I just appreciate her so much. Loves the Word of 497 00:25:15,910 --> 00:25:18,909 S1: God has been tried by fire and now is passing 498 00:25:18,910 --> 00:25:21,070 S1: on so that we might learn as well. The book 499 00:25:21,070 --> 00:25:25,230 S1: is beautifully laid out. She puts out ten practices that 500 00:25:25,230 --> 00:25:27,750 S1: will help us build a faith that will not fail. 501 00:25:27,750 --> 00:25:29,109 S1: And that's the name of the book, a faith that 502 00:25:29,109 --> 00:25:32,070 S1: will not fail. And these are practices designed to help 503 00:25:32,070 --> 00:25:34,629 S1: us build up our faith. When your world is falling apart. Now, Michel, 504 00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:36,350 S1: I want to dive into this, but I was just 505 00:25:36,350 --> 00:25:39,590 S1: thinking about the subtitle. Wouldn't it behoove every single one 506 00:25:39,590 --> 00:25:43,430 S1: of us to start these practices now? Because it's going 507 00:25:43,470 --> 00:25:45,750 S1: to hit. And I keep thinking, thank you, Lord. I 508 00:25:45,750 --> 00:25:49,030 S1: know I've been trained along the way, but maybe before 509 00:25:49,109 --> 00:25:52,350 S1: that first getting hit blindsided like you had, it would 510 00:25:52,390 --> 00:25:54,109 S1: have been awfully nice if I had been thinking about 511 00:25:54,109 --> 00:25:57,470 S1: these things before the thunder rolled rather than after it 512 00:25:57,470 --> 00:26:00,669 S1: started to roll. And that's what your book does. It. Yes, 513 00:26:00,670 --> 00:26:02,430 S1: we're all going to be in one of these three stages, 514 00:26:02,430 --> 00:26:05,469 S1: but don't put this off because every single one of 515 00:26:05,470 --> 00:26:07,550 S1: us is going to have trials and tribulations. We were 516 00:26:07,550 --> 00:26:10,950 S1: promised that in the word, when fiery trials come, that's 517 00:26:10,950 --> 00:26:12,610 S1: a better guarantee than the one I got with my 518 00:26:12,609 --> 00:26:14,889 S1: washing machine, but we're always shocked when it happens, so 519 00:26:15,130 --> 00:26:18,250 S1: it's just amazing to me. You, you talk about the 520 00:26:18,250 --> 00:26:21,130 S1: practice of lament, and I love this because this is 521 00:26:21,130 --> 00:26:23,770 S1: a beautiful word that we avoid unless we're studying the 522 00:26:23,770 --> 00:26:26,410 S1: book of Lamentations in Sunday school. It's like you lament, 523 00:26:26,410 --> 00:26:28,930 S1: I don't want it. I'm not interested in lamenting. I'm 524 00:26:28,930 --> 00:26:31,889 S1: interested in having joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart. 525 00:26:32,050 --> 00:26:37,689 S1: But God gave us the clarion call to lament. Why 526 00:26:37,690 --> 00:26:39,570 S1: is it profitable to lament? 527 00:26:40,609 --> 00:26:46,290 S5: Yeah, it is one of the most valuable practices. In fact, 528 00:26:46,290 --> 00:26:49,250 S5: it's the. It's so ironic because we almost didn't I 529 00:26:49,250 --> 00:26:51,330 S5: almost didn't put this practice at the beginning of the 530 00:26:51,330 --> 00:26:55,570 S5: book because it felt so anti what people would want. Why? 531 00:26:55,570 --> 00:26:58,609 S5: Why start a book with lament? It sounds depressing, and 532 00:26:58,609 --> 00:27:00,970 S5: yet it's the one that people are talking about left 533 00:27:00,970 --> 00:27:05,570 S5: and right because um, it is giving voice to the 534 00:27:05,570 --> 00:27:09,250 S5: reality of our desperate condition. And I think we all 535 00:27:09,290 --> 00:27:13,150 S5: are sensing a need to be honest and to have good, 536 00:27:13,150 --> 00:27:18,990 S5: honest conversation about our reality. Lament. By definition, it's kind 537 00:27:18,990 --> 00:27:22,270 S5: of an an old ancient term, but it's simply a 538 00:27:22,270 --> 00:27:27,910 S5: vocalization of grief. It's always expressive, it's always demonstrative. So it's, 539 00:27:27,910 --> 00:27:30,550 S5: it's basically taking the grief that we feel in our 540 00:27:30,550 --> 00:27:33,990 S5: souls and we're giving voice to it. It is not 541 00:27:33,990 --> 00:27:37,070 S5: just in the book of Lamentations, but it's throughout Psalms. 542 00:27:37,270 --> 00:27:40,869 S5: It's the book of Jeremiah. Jeremiah is called the Complaining Prophet, 543 00:27:41,150 --> 00:27:44,430 S5: but he's basically lamenting all over the place. We see 544 00:27:44,430 --> 00:27:48,230 S5: it when Jesus comes to Jerusalem and he weeps over Jerusalem, 545 00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:51,150 S5: and he's saying, you know, Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how I've longed 546 00:27:51,470 --> 00:27:54,070 S5: to gather you, but you were not willing. We see 547 00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:58,390 S5: it in the garden when Jesus is lamenting his impending suffering. 548 00:27:58,390 --> 00:28:01,470 S5: We see it with the. It's everywhere, and all it 549 00:28:01,470 --> 00:28:05,869 S5: is is us being willing to tell the truth about 550 00:28:05,869 --> 00:28:09,820 S5: our pain until you and I can tell the truth 551 00:28:09,820 --> 00:28:16,100 S5: about our pain. We cannot accept rescue. Only people who 552 00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:20,580 S5: are wounded and desperate and broken and in need of 553 00:28:20,580 --> 00:28:26,500 S5: healing need a deliverer and healer and rescuer and Savior. 554 00:28:26,820 --> 00:28:30,659 S5: Until we can accept that this is the reality of 555 00:28:30,660 --> 00:28:34,460 S5: our condition, we will have no use for a Jesus 556 00:28:34,460 --> 00:28:35,660 S5: who's here to save. 557 00:28:36,340 --> 00:28:38,660 S1: Wow. So well said. Wow. Now I'm going to tell 558 00:28:38,660 --> 00:28:42,340 S1: my friends again. She breaks this up into ten practices. 559 00:28:42,340 --> 00:28:44,780 S1: And then there are five days of the practice, and 560 00:28:44,780 --> 00:28:47,980 S1: she addresses various aspects of the topic in each one 561 00:28:47,980 --> 00:28:50,620 S1: of these practices. So I'm not going to break these 562 00:28:50,620 --> 00:28:52,420 S1: all apart. I want you to get the book. You 563 00:28:52,420 --> 00:28:54,300 S1: break them apart, you read it, you own it, you 564 00:28:54,340 --> 00:28:56,780 S1: let it get written on the tablets of your heart. 565 00:28:56,780 --> 00:28:58,140 S1: So I'm just going to pick and choose some of 566 00:28:58,140 --> 00:29:00,580 S1: these things to get you to start thinking deeper. So 567 00:29:00,900 --> 00:29:03,740 S1: worship makes perfect sense to me. It's just real hard 568 00:29:03,740 --> 00:29:06,220 S1: to put on praise and worship music when you're waiting 569 00:29:06,220 --> 00:29:08,959 S1: for the doctor to call. On what the diagnosis is. 570 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,920 S1: How do I and we think of worship as a 571 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,960 S1: form of joy, right? We sing Hallelujah. We enter his 572 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,160 S1: gates into thanksgiving and enter into his courts with praise. 573 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,960 S1: And so there's a buoyed enthusiasm. At least there should 574 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,720 S1: be in the aspect of worship. How does that square 575 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,520 S1: with understanding that I'm in the middle of a trial? 576 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:34,080 S5: Worship is very simply. It's not just joy and and 577 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,240 S5: music and dancing. Worship is seeing God for who he is. 578 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,600 S5: And when I'm in a place dealing with a situation 579 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,640 S5: that's beyond my ability to affect, when I'm dealing with 580 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:49,600 S5: something far bigger, far more complex, far, far beyond my 581 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,520 S5: capacity to arm wrestle it into submission. Seeing God for 582 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,920 S5: who he is is about the only place where I'm 583 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,280 S5: going to find some kind of hope. I need a hero. 584 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,800 S5: I need somebody bigger than me. I need somebody that's 585 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:07,270 S5: beyond figuring out somebody who's mystery and magnitude brings me 586 00:30:07,270 --> 00:30:11,310 S5: a sense of security, even if my circumstances don't resolve. 587 00:30:11,550 --> 00:30:15,070 S5: And so from that standpoint, worship, seeing God for who 588 00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:18,910 S5: he is, seeing Him on His throne, seeing him as 589 00:30:18,910 --> 00:30:22,230 S5: the one who created us and will, as Philippians says, 590 00:30:22,230 --> 00:30:26,070 S5: bring us to completion at some point in time. Seeing 591 00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:30,430 S5: that is a comfort, even if today's circumstances are a result, 592 00:30:30,430 --> 00:30:32,230 S5: that is a comfort. That's what we need. 593 00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:36,310 S1: Yeah, yeah. Amen to that humility. I was very surprised 594 00:30:36,310 --> 00:30:40,190 S1: to see this one in here because when you're suffering, Michelle, 595 00:30:40,190 --> 00:30:41,750 S1: for me, I feel like I'm under the foot of 596 00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:44,510 S1: an elephant. So being humble, I'm already feeling about as 597 00:30:44,510 --> 00:30:47,550 S1: flat as I can possibly be. And sometimes it's hard 598 00:30:47,550 --> 00:30:50,510 S1: to take the next breath. So being haughty doesn't usually 599 00:30:50,510 --> 00:30:52,670 S1: manifest itself in my life when I'm in the middle 600 00:30:52,670 --> 00:30:55,670 S1: of suffering. And yet we have. You tell us we 601 00:30:55,670 --> 00:30:58,190 S1: have to put in place the practice of humility. How 602 00:30:58,190 --> 00:30:59,350 S1: does this build our faith? 603 00:30:59,870 --> 00:31:01,910 S5: Well, I want to go to the book of job, 604 00:31:01,910 --> 00:31:03,730 S5: which is such a great place when we're talking about 605 00:31:03,730 --> 00:31:05,650 S5: chef Frame. But throughout the book of job, we see 606 00:31:05,650 --> 00:31:09,810 S5: all these chapters of job, you know, lamenting his reality. 607 00:31:09,850 --> 00:31:13,090 S5: You know, he's not happy, he's confused, he doesn't understand 608 00:31:13,090 --> 00:31:16,250 S5: what God is doing. It makes no sense to him. He's, 609 00:31:16,490 --> 00:31:18,970 S5: you know, he's wrestling against that, all of that. And 610 00:31:18,970 --> 00:31:23,170 S5: then at the end, God responds and shows him himself, right? 611 00:31:23,610 --> 00:31:26,290 S5: And that is that moment where job sees God for 612 00:31:26,290 --> 00:31:29,850 S5: who he is. Worship. So you see this progression of worship, 613 00:31:29,850 --> 00:31:33,970 S5: and at the end, after God is done basically saying, job, 614 00:31:34,010 --> 00:31:35,490 S5: I'm not going to even talk about your pain. I 615 00:31:35,490 --> 00:31:37,489 S5: don't think you're getting who I am. Do you see 616 00:31:37,530 --> 00:31:42,650 S5: me at the end of this whole God speech? Job says, um, uh, 617 00:31:42,690 --> 00:31:45,570 S5: my ears have heard had heard of you, but now 618 00:31:45,610 --> 00:31:48,170 S5: my eyes have seen you. And so I repent in 619 00:31:48,170 --> 00:31:51,650 S5: dust and ashes. There was a sense when he saw 620 00:31:51,690 --> 00:31:55,810 S5: God for who he is, job was able to understand 621 00:31:56,170 --> 00:31:58,010 S5: what he had said at the beginning of the book. 622 00:31:58,050 --> 00:32:00,650 S5: The Lord gives and the Lord takes away. May the 623 00:32:00,650 --> 00:32:03,030 S5: name of the Lord be praised. He saw himself in 624 00:32:03,030 --> 00:32:06,470 S5: proper relationship to God, which helped him to hold on 625 00:32:06,510 --> 00:32:10,990 S5: to his circumstances more loosely and hold on to God's 626 00:32:10,990 --> 00:32:13,870 S5: reality more tightly. That's humility. 627 00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:17,190 S1: Oh wow. I love the coupling of words. What is 628 00:32:17,190 --> 00:32:18,590 S1: the refuge of mercy? 629 00:32:19,390 --> 00:32:24,910 S5: Refuge of mercy? This idea of the fact that, um, 630 00:32:24,950 --> 00:32:27,110 S5: you know, we have things, we've heard the term even 631 00:32:27,150 --> 00:32:30,710 S5: a severe mercy, right? A severe mercy. Mhm. Um, I, 632 00:32:31,070 --> 00:32:33,710 S5: when I went through cancer of the tongue, all these times, 633 00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:35,550 S5: you know, I lost two thirds of my tongue. I 634 00:32:35,590 --> 00:32:39,870 S5: lost 70% of my taste. I'm in chronic pain every day. 635 00:32:39,870 --> 00:32:42,070 S5: It's a hard time eating, swallowing the fact that I'm 636 00:32:42,110 --> 00:32:46,150 S5: talking to you, Janet, is nothing short of a miracle. Okay. Wow. 637 00:32:46,510 --> 00:32:50,310 S5: And I can look at that as a massive loss, 638 00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:54,510 S5: an unexplained grief at the same time. As a communicator, 639 00:32:54,830 --> 00:32:58,550 S5: I've had to also recognize, and this is one of 640 00:32:58,590 --> 00:33:03,620 S5: God's mercies is what I have lost has actually become 641 00:33:04,060 --> 00:33:07,260 S5: the soil of some of the greatest fruit in my life. 642 00:33:09,180 --> 00:33:11,660 S5: And there is a mercy in that. I would have 643 00:33:11,660 --> 00:33:14,300 S5: never asked for this. I don't have any desire to 644 00:33:14,340 --> 00:33:16,700 S5: go back and experience anything like this again. It was 645 00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:20,980 S5: a suffering that's beyond words. And yet I cannot deny 646 00:33:21,660 --> 00:33:28,100 S5: how God has caused extraordinary, um, life and light and 647 00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:32,540 S5: hope and growth and connection and ministry through the very 648 00:33:32,580 --> 00:33:36,100 S5: thing that I thought would destroy me. That is a 649 00:33:36,100 --> 00:33:39,300 S5: refuge of mercy, a place that even if it's hard, 650 00:33:39,500 --> 00:33:43,300 S5: I can sink into the reality that God has this, 651 00:33:43,580 --> 00:33:46,180 S5: you know, it's a severe mercy, no doubt about it. 652 00:33:46,180 --> 00:33:49,500 S5: But he gave me what I I've heard Tim Keller 653 00:33:49,540 --> 00:33:52,180 S5: say this in a sermon, God gives you what you 654 00:33:52,180 --> 00:33:54,380 S5: would ask for if you knew what he knew. 655 00:33:54,980 --> 00:33:55,300 S6: MM. 656 00:33:56,340 --> 00:33:58,280 S5: And the truth is, if you would have asked that 657 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,320 S5: seven year old girl who walked down the aisle at 658 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,520 S5: church what she wanted more than anything is she wanted 659 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,280 S5: to love Jesus. And she wanted to make Jesus known 660 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,640 S5: with everything in her. She wanted to tell people about Jesus. 661 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,560 S5: Well guess what? I am talking about Jesus now more 662 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,480 S5: than I ever have in my life. And I'm doing 663 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,600 S5: it not from a place of theory, but from a 664 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,960 S5: place of real life reality in the trenches. And I 665 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,799 S5: mean it more than I ever have before. But it 666 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,160 S5: took this very, very long, hard road to get me 667 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,080 S5: to this place. Is it worth it? Yes. 668 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,799 S1: Mhm. Yeah, exactly. At the end of every chapter, you 669 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,319 S1: have what you call a five minute faith builder. I 670 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,200 S1: love it. Explain our friends how we're supposed to use 671 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:39,160 S1: that part of your book. 672 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,440 S5: Yeah. So my aim. I'm a lover of good, solid theology. 673 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,080 S5: He said at the beginning how we really have some 674 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,279 S5: pretty faulty theology that gets us in trouble when we 675 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,640 S5: go through places of pain. And so part of my 676 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,430 S5: coming through these 30 years of unrelenting losses has been 677 00:34:57,430 --> 00:35:00,270 S5: for me to get clear about what where my theology 678 00:35:00,270 --> 00:35:03,070 S5: was faulty and getting back to really good, solid theology. 679 00:35:03,070 --> 00:35:05,950 S5: So my book, A Faith that Will Not Fail, is 680 00:35:05,950 --> 00:35:12,029 S5: all about making good, solid theology accessible to anyone. And 681 00:35:12,030 --> 00:35:14,670 S5: so I break down these practices with these five minute 682 00:35:14,670 --> 00:35:17,989 S5: faith builders. That gives the person who is in the trenches, 683 00:35:17,989 --> 00:35:23,190 S5: the one who's drowning a lifeline, a short five minute lifeline, 684 00:35:23,190 --> 00:35:26,070 S5: something to hang on to in those dark, dark places 685 00:35:26,070 --> 00:35:28,589 S5: when you you don't have the energy to do a 686 00:35:28,590 --> 00:35:31,670 S5: three hour Bible study or a fast for two weeks. Yeah. 687 00:35:31,710 --> 00:35:35,110 S5: And to make it as accessible as possible. In other words, 688 00:35:35,590 --> 00:35:39,310 S5: you know, adding one single brick to that foundation of 689 00:35:39,310 --> 00:35:41,510 S5: faith in your life, just one at a time. 690 00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:44,830 S1: Yeah, exactly. So let me give our friends an example, 691 00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:48,630 S1: because it's such a capstone on your wonderfully insightful conversation 692 00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:51,069 S1: about a severe mercy. Again, you call the chapter The 693 00:35:51,070 --> 00:35:53,790 S1: Refuge of mercy. But you pulled that right out of Scripture, 694 00:35:53,890 --> 00:35:55,690 S1: out of the overflow of the heart. The mouth speaks. 695 00:35:55,690 --> 00:35:58,489 S1: And that's so evident in your life, Michelle. So you 696 00:35:58,489 --> 00:36:01,330 S1: start with a verse from Psalm 57. One have mercy 697 00:36:01,330 --> 00:36:04,489 S1: on me, my God, have mercy on me. For in 698 00:36:04,489 --> 00:36:08,210 S1: you I take refuge. I will take refuge in the 699 00:36:08,210 --> 00:36:12,489 S1: shadow of your wings until the disaster has passed. What 700 00:36:12,489 --> 00:36:14,530 S1: a comfort to know that a his wings are there, 701 00:36:14,530 --> 00:36:17,089 S1: that B have been invited to sit under them, and 702 00:36:17,090 --> 00:36:21,690 S1: that c he will be there through the storm until 703 00:36:21,690 --> 00:36:25,610 S1: the disaster has passed. Wow, this book is rich. There's 704 00:36:25,610 --> 00:36:29,169 S1: no other word. I know good books that have rich theology, 705 00:36:29,450 --> 00:36:31,569 S1: and I've seen a whole bunch that were a waste 706 00:36:31,570 --> 00:36:35,730 S1: of trees. Okay, this is rich theology. The book is 707 00:36:35,730 --> 00:36:38,530 S1: called A Faith that Will Not fail. Back after this? 708 00:36:43,810 --> 00:36:46,730 S1: You know, there isn't a person listening to Michelle Obama's 709 00:36:47,050 --> 00:36:50,610 S1: My Voice who would not benefit from this book, because 710 00:36:50,770 --> 00:36:52,430 S1: I'm going to bring this full circle to where we 711 00:36:52,430 --> 00:36:54,830 S1: started our conversation. The rhythm of life. You're about to 712 00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:57,069 S1: go into the refiner's fire. You join us today in 713 00:36:57,110 --> 00:37:00,070 S1: the fire or you've just stepped out. So we need 714 00:37:00,070 --> 00:37:02,790 S1: to have a faith that will not fail. God is constant. 715 00:37:02,790 --> 00:37:06,069 S1: He's consistent. He's never changing. It's you and I that 716 00:37:06,070 --> 00:37:09,230 S1: vacillate on a regular basis. And quite honestly, sometimes we're 717 00:37:09,230 --> 00:37:12,109 S1: wimpy Christians. And I bet particularly because this program is 718 00:37:12,110 --> 00:37:14,750 S1: called In the Market with Janet Partial, where we gently, 719 00:37:14,750 --> 00:37:17,509 S1: consistently push you out there to get out into the 720 00:37:17,510 --> 00:37:20,870 S1: marketplace of ideas so that you can contend for the faith. 721 00:37:21,270 --> 00:37:23,509 S1: A faith that will not fail isn't just about your 722 00:37:23,510 --> 00:37:27,030 S1: going out and being an effective, an effective apologist for 723 00:37:27,150 --> 00:37:31,110 S1: the gospel of Jesus Christ. But whenever the winds howl, 724 00:37:31,150 --> 00:37:35,150 S1: your very witness is manifest in your being able to say, 725 00:37:35,390 --> 00:37:38,189 S1: I stand on the Rock of Jesus Christ. I can't 726 00:37:38,190 --> 00:37:40,310 S1: do it on my own. You know, for those of 727 00:37:40,310 --> 00:37:42,509 S1: us who have got some really big trauma with a 728 00:37:42,510 --> 00:37:45,629 S1: capital T in our life, we didn't do it ourselves. 729 00:37:45,670 --> 00:37:49,430 S1: We we stand today because Jesus was there and got 730 00:37:49,430 --> 00:37:52,500 S1: us safely home. Never promised us that there wouldn't be storms. 731 00:37:52,500 --> 00:37:55,060 S1: Only promised he'd bring us home safely. So the book 732 00:37:55,260 --> 00:37:57,259 S1: in my classroom would be a must read. It's called 733 00:37:57,260 --> 00:37:59,219 S1: a Faith that Will Not fail. I've got a link 734 00:37:59,219 --> 00:38:01,620 S1: to Michelle's website as well. And as I said earlier, 735 00:38:01,660 --> 00:38:03,980 S1: she's just chock full of good stuff in the market. 736 00:38:03,980 --> 00:38:07,380 S1: With Janet, click on the red box. It says program 737 00:38:07,380 --> 00:38:09,779 S1: details and audio takes you where you need to go, 738 00:38:09,780 --> 00:38:12,460 S1: and expanded bio for Michelle and a link to her 739 00:38:12,460 --> 00:38:14,660 S1: website with wonderful things. And on the book on the 740 00:38:14,660 --> 00:38:17,260 S1: right hand side of faith that will not fail. So 741 00:38:17,260 --> 00:38:20,340 S1: there are ten practices I've skipped and jumped over just 742 00:38:20,340 --> 00:38:22,700 S1: a couple. So I want to dive down into some. 743 00:38:22,900 --> 00:38:25,300 S1: You talk about the practice of contentment. I love this 744 00:38:25,300 --> 00:38:28,940 S1: because this really is the athleticism of the Christian faith. 745 00:38:28,940 --> 00:38:31,620 S1: I've gone back to this verse. Paul sits in that jail. 746 00:38:31,620 --> 00:38:34,300 S1: He's writing to the church at Philippi, and he says, 747 00:38:34,300 --> 00:38:38,660 S1: I have learned underscore, underscore, yellow magic marker. Whatever state 748 00:38:38,660 --> 00:38:41,500 S1: I'm in to be content. I take such joy and 749 00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:44,339 S1: peace and comfort in this because it's Paul. And if 750 00:38:44,340 --> 00:38:46,780 S1: Paul had to learn to be content and oh, don't, 751 00:38:46,780 --> 00:38:49,240 S1: don't miss the surrounding. He's writing it from a jail. 752 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,600 S1: This means this is an exercise. This is the athleticism. 753 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,279 S1: I'm going to do those heavy presses of learning to 754 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,520 S1: be content. So I get the spiritual muscle that is required. 755 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,080 S1: How do you do that, particularly when you're waiting for 756 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:04,759 S1: the doctor to tell you that it's come back for 757 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,080 S1: the third time? Michelle, how do you and learned in 758 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,319 S1: whatsoever state I'm in to be content? This is when 759 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,120 S1: the world watches us going, oh, that's pulp. I don't 760 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,359 S1: believe that. You're just mouthing the words. How in the 761 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,160 S1: world could you possibly find contentment in your pain? 762 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,200 S5: And, uh, uh, it's it's not easy. I'll be very, 763 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,759 S5: very clear up front. I think I'm all about honesty here, 764 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,160 S5: so we're not going to offer trite clichés or anything else. 765 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,320 S5: It's it's not easy. It's difficult. And that's why Paul said, 766 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,480 S5: I have learned we agonize for it. We we wrestle 767 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:40,919 S5: with it. It begins. I believe contentment begins with realizing 768 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,040 S5: that what we're searching for is not up ahead somewhere 769 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,390 S5: or out there somewhere. It's right here in this moment. 770 00:39:47,790 --> 00:39:50,709 S5: What we need, what we want, what we desire. There 771 00:39:50,750 --> 00:39:54,350 S5: is something right here that we don't want to miss. 772 00:39:55,790 --> 00:39:58,109 S5: I have seen this again and again as I've gone 773 00:39:58,110 --> 00:40:01,230 S5: through different, very difficult seasons. So and we're not talking 774 00:40:01,230 --> 00:40:04,670 S5: just one hard season like it's been 30 years of non-stop. 775 00:40:04,670 --> 00:40:06,470 S5: And some of it I don't even write about because 776 00:40:06,469 --> 00:40:10,270 S5: it's too private, but I have to continually remind myself 777 00:40:10,270 --> 00:40:12,190 S5: and even have done this in the last few months 778 00:40:12,190 --> 00:40:15,430 S5: as I'm going through another difficult season of there is 779 00:40:15,430 --> 00:40:19,629 S5: something sacred, something holy right here, and I don't want 780 00:40:19,670 --> 00:40:22,950 S5: to miss it. And that allows me, or that at 781 00:40:22,989 --> 00:40:26,149 S5: least opens my eyes to the fact that I don't 782 00:40:26,150 --> 00:40:28,550 S5: need to just wait for this hard thing to be over, 783 00:40:28,550 --> 00:40:31,029 S5: to live my real life. My real life is lived 784 00:40:31,030 --> 00:40:35,310 S5: right here in this moment. And that is part of the, 785 00:40:35,310 --> 00:40:39,149 S5: I believe, the beginning of the practice of contentment, of 786 00:40:39,190 --> 00:40:44,070 S5: being fully tuned into, aware of, and seeing this right here. 787 00:40:44,070 --> 00:40:48,330 S5: And even if it's painful or uncomfortable, there's something sacred. Uh, 788 00:40:48,410 --> 00:40:53,569 S5: Isaiah talks about secrets and darkness, treasures and hidden places. Uh, 789 00:40:53,570 --> 00:40:56,689 S5: that is true. The biggest crises in my life have 790 00:40:56,690 --> 00:41:00,410 S5: been found in moments I would have rather skipped over 791 00:41:00,450 --> 00:41:03,649 S5: or numbed out of or checked out of. Those were 792 00:41:03,650 --> 00:41:05,890 S5: the sweetest moments. So it's right here. And that helps 793 00:41:05,890 --> 00:41:10,290 S5: me be content in this moment, not pining for what's next. 794 00:41:10,530 --> 00:41:15,250 S1: Wow. Wow. That's so important. So very, very important. You know, 795 00:41:15,290 --> 00:41:18,250 S1: the person who drove this point home for me was 796 00:41:18,250 --> 00:41:22,890 S1: my friend Johnny Erickson. Tada! So, quadriplegic, 50 years, unremitting pain. 797 00:41:23,130 --> 00:41:25,370 S1: And one goes, how does that happen when you're paralyzed 798 00:41:25,370 --> 00:41:27,890 S1: from the neck down? Trust me, it happens. Then she 799 00:41:27,890 --> 00:41:30,130 S1: gets the diagnosis of breast cancer, and you want a 800 00:41:30,130 --> 00:41:32,969 S1: picture of a faith that will not fail. So she 801 00:41:32,969 --> 00:41:35,250 S1: gets the diagnosis and the first words out of her 802 00:41:35,250 --> 00:41:37,730 S1: mouth are, okay, Lord, what do you want to teach 803 00:41:37,770 --> 00:41:41,130 S1: me this time? That's being in the moment. That's the 804 00:41:41,130 --> 00:41:43,669 S1: hidden treasure. That's the okay, I'm not going to worry 805 00:41:43,670 --> 00:41:46,069 S1: about the outcome, the diagnosis, the treatment. Will it be chemo? 806 00:41:46,110 --> 00:41:48,310 S1: Will it be radiation, blah, blah blah? It's. What do 807 00:41:48,310 --> 00:41:50,390 S1: you want to teach me, Lord? I want to be 808 00:41:50,390 --> 00:41:53,190 S1: like that. I want my first response to be not horizontal, 809 00:41:53,230 --> 00:41:55,509 S1: but vertical. Okay, Lord, what do you want to teach 810 00:41:55,550 --> 00:42:00,029 S1: me this time? Because that means there there is implied, 811 00:42:00,270 --> 00:42:03,790 S1: if not directly stated recognition that he's God and He's 812 00:42:03,790 --> 00:42:07,950 S1: in control. Isn't it easy to surrender, not give up, 813 00:42:07,950 --> 00:42:10,910 S1: not wave a white flag, but to surrender, to know 814 00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:13,270 S1: God's got this. He's got me. I don't know what 815 00:42:13,270 --> 00:42:16,350 S1: the future holds, but I'm content because he's in charge 816 00:42:16,350 --> 00:42:18,670 S1: and I can trust him completely. How does that factor 817 00:42:18,670 --> 00:42:19,790 S1: into building our faith? 818 00:42:20,430 --> 00:42:23,390 S5: Well, I think we need to, uh, and this is 819 00:42:23,390 --> 00:42:26,270 S5: part of that contentment as well, is to not forget 820 00:42:26,270 --> 00:42:30,550 S5: his faithfulness. Uh, we see in Exodus where the Lord, 821 00:42:30,550 --> 00:42:34,230 S5: as he brings the Israelites out of Egypt and toward 822 00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:37,350 S5: the Promised Land, and he urges Moses and the Israelites 823 00:42:37,390 --> 00:42:40,350 S5: over and over again, do not forget when you get 824 00:42:40,350 --> 00:42:43,779 S5: to the Promised land when you have food on your 825 00:42:43,780 --> 00:42:46,980 S5: table and the money is coming in and everybody's happy. 826 00:42:47,020 --> 00:42:51,379 S5: Don't forget where you came from. Um, our problem with 827 00:42:51,380 --> 00:42:54,580 S5: current suffering is more a problem of a failure to 828 00:42:54,620 --> 00:42:59,259 S5: remember than the reality of our present suffering. Mhm. We 829 00:42:59,300 --> 00:43:04,420 S5: so easily what I, we develop what I call spiritual amnesia, 830 00:43:05,500 --> 00:43:11,660 S5: that today's crisis causes us to forget about God's deliverance yesterday. 831 00:43:12,780 --> 00:43:16,460 S5: And so this practice of remembering, you know, if God 832 00:43:16,460 --> 00:43:20,660 S5: was faithful to me five years ago, ten years ago, 833 00:43:20,700 --> 00:43:23,580 S5: two days ago, he can be faithful. He will be 834 00:43:23,580 --> 00:43:26,980 S5: faithful to me today. He's the same God, Alpha and Omega, 835 00:43:27,020 --> 00:43:30,260 S5: beginning the end, the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. His 836 00:43:30,260 --> 00:43:35,580 S5: faithfulness has not changed. And so remembering God's faithfulness helps 837 00:43:35,580 --> 00:43:38,779 S5: us to dig in and stay grounded, even when it 838 00:43:38,780 --> 00:43:41,359 S5: feels like everything around us is falling apart because we're 839 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,680 S5: like he's delivers before he's brought us out of other Egypts, 840 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,360 S5: he will deliver us from this one. 841 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,759 S1: Yeah. Amen. Respecting a high and holy God. Sometimes I 842 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,800 S1: feel like because I'm always feeling like I'm in his classroom. 843 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,920 S1: This is when I would pass a note to my 844 00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,160 S1: sister in the Lord. And I would say, is it 845 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:04,520 S1: just me or is God's clock slow? And I would. Yes. So, 846 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:05,879 S1: you know. 847 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,240 S5: Sister, I moved 200 miles an hour. So I always 848 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:10,280 S5: think God is slow. 849 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,839 S1: Exactly, exactly. So talk to me about this time. This 850 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,480 S1: is one of the practices, the practice of waiting. It's 851 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,560 S1: bad enough to go through it, but could we, like, 852 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,200 S1: get the expedited version here and not make this go 853 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:22,720 S1: so slow? Talk to me about waiting. 854 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:27,160 S5: Yeah, waiting. Waiting. The practice of waiting is so difficult 855 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,200 S5: for all of us. I think more so now than 856 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:33,120 S5: ever before because we can have things delivered in a second. 857 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,759 S5: We can click on a button on an app on 858 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,110 S5: our phone and have, you know, 36 rolls of toilet 859 00:44:39,110 --> 00:44:41,469 S5: paper at our door within the hour. You know, we 860 00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:44,549 S5: are not in the habit of knowing what it's like 861 00:44:44,550 --> 00:44:49,510 S5: to wait. And yet, uh, waiting is its own, uh, 862 00:44:49,590 --> 00:44:53,710 S5: muscle development. We talked about resistance, that when we lift weights, 863 00:44:53,710 --> 00:44:57,230 S5: the resistance helps us to build muscles. But there is 864 00:44:57,230 --> 00:45:00,310 S5: also the practice of, you know, like Pilates or other 865 00:45:00,310 --> 00:45:03,989 S5: slow movements that require you to hold a weight and 866 00:45:03,989 --> 00:45:07,150 S5: to wait and let that distension of holding that build 867 00:45:07,150 --> 00:45:10,470 S5: the muscles. The same is true for our face. Our 868 00:45:10,510 --> 00:45:15,590 S5: ability to tolerate discomfort builds our faith for what's to come. 869 00:45:15,630 --> 00:45:17,750 S1: Wow, what a note to end this on. And there 870 00:45:17,750 --> 00:45:24,430 S1: are so many rich points, so many deeply biblical, exponentially 871 00:45:24,430 --> 00:45:27,230 S1: affirmative statements in the book that you need to read. 872 00:45:27,230 --> 00:45:29,990 S1: The book is called A Faith that Will Not Fail, 873 00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:32,830 S1: and Michel gives us ten practices to help us build 874 00:45:32,830 --> 00:45:35,830 S1: our faith. Michel, what a blessing. See you next time, friends.