1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,440 S1: If our guests today on Chris Fabry Live are right, 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,960 S1: there's something or someone listening right now who doesn't know 3 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,840 S1: who they are. You know your name, you know your 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,960 S1: Social security number, maybe you even know some of your 5 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,479 S1: family history, but you don't fully grasp who you are 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,360 S1: in Christ. Our guests want to remedy that, and we're 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,800 S1: going to try to do it in 54 minutes or less. 8 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,920 S1: They want you to know more about 21 attributes of 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,440 S1: your true identity in Christ, and the result of that 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,800 S1: could take you from sinful and shameful to blameless and beautiful. 11 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:47,479 S1: If the enemy is whispering accusations to you today, they 12 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,840 S1: could be accusations. Or if you are whispering them to yourself, 13 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,640 S1: that's my problem. Think about this. You can't destroy someone 14 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:00,190 S1: who knows who they are. And as you listen today, 15 00:01:00,230 --> 00:01:03,110 S1: think about this question. What truth about your identity in 16 00:01:03,110 --> 00:01:08,550 S1: Christ is hardest for you to believe right now and 17 00:01:08,550 --> 00:01:11,070 S1: to live out every day? Let's talk about it straight 18 00:01:11,069 --> 00:01:13,350 S1: ahead on Chris Fabry. Live the program from the heart 19 00:01:13,350 --> 00:01:15,830 S1: to the heart for the heart. I'm so excited about today. 20 00:01:15,830 --> 00:01:19,390 S1: I'm just I'm stumbling over myself already because I think 21 00:01:19,390 --> 00:01:22,030 S1: this is this could be a game changer for somebody 22 00:01:22,030 --> 00:01:26,390 S1: who's listening. And that's why I chose this program to re-air. Today. 23 00:01:26,390 --> 00:01:29,670 S1: We are going to go back to November of 2025 24 00:01:30,069 --> 00:01:32,830 S1: and listen to a best of conversation. And if you 25 00:01:32,870 --> 00:01:38,110 S1: hear dated information, talk about the holidays, disregard that. Don't 26 00:01:38,110 --> 00:01:41,869 S1: call our live number today. Our program is recorded. But 27 00:01:41,870 --> 00:01:45,230 S1: let me thank our team. Ryan McConaughey faithfully doing all 28 00:01:45,230 --> 00:01:49,390 S1: things technical. Tricia McMillan is our producer. Lisa is somewhere 29 00:01:49,430 --> 00:01:53,230 S1: helping out. Josh is not here to take your calls today. Obviously. 30 00:01:53,790 --> 00:01:57,110 S1: I received an email from Don and I found this recently. 31 00:01:57,110 --> 00:02:00,730 S1: He reached out some time ago with encouraging things to 32 00:02:00,770 --> 00:02:03,290 S1: say about what we do at the back fence, and 33 00:02:03,290 --> 00:02:07,810 S1: one of them was this. Your program hits home like 34 00:02:07,810 --> 00:02:11,370 S1: no other, and that's our goal each day. And I'm 35 00:02:11,370 --> 00:02:13,850 S1: hoping to get an email or a voicemail about the 36 00:02:13,850 --> 00:02:18,090 S1: conversation you're about to hear today on your identity in Christ. 37 00:02:18,490 --> 00:02:21,889 S1: If you value these visits to the back fence and 38 00:02:21,889 --> 00:02:25,450 S1: you haven't given, go to our website. Jump into pool 39 00:02:25,450 --> 00:02:27,810 S1: with us. You'll be glad you did, because you'll be 40 00:02:27,810 --> 00:02:31,530 S1: a part of every connection made between guest and listener 41 00:02:31,530 --> 00:02:35,370 S1: that happens moving forward. Plus, we have some great ways 42 00:02:35,370 --> 00:02:39,010 S1: to thank you. The most personal is the video I 43 00:02:39,050 --> 00:02:41,730 S1: send out every Thursday. Now, this is to those who 44 00:02:41,730 --> 00:02:45,010 S1: give a gift each month to become back fence partners. 45 00:02:45,210 --> 00:02:48,490 S1: I call this video my back fence post and I 46 00:02:48,490 --> 00:02:50,369 S1: kind of pull back the curtain. You see me in 47 00:02:50,370 --> 00:02:54,130 S1: my natural habitat. I give you extra content that we 48 00:02:54,169 --> 00:02:57,680 S1: don't have time for on the radio. Listeners have said, 49 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,480 S1: I look forward to Thursday because I can watch the 50 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,960 S1: video and I know that I'm going to be encouraged. 51 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,079 S1: But wait, there's more. Every month, I choose a thank 52 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,760 S1: you gift for listeners. And if you hear about a 53 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,200 S1: resource that we're giving to those who give one a 54 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:16,160 S1: one time gift and you want that, it is yours. Plus, 55 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,079 S1: you get a free copy of my novel, The Promise 56 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,640 S1: of Jesse Woods. Have I convinced you yet? Just go 57 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,760 S1: to Chris Fabry live.org. Scroll down. You'll see how you 58 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,280 S1: can be a back fence partner. If that doesn't convince you, 59 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,440 S1: if you give a $30 a month gift or more, 60 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,119 S1: you get to go shopping at Moody Publishers and get 50% 61 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:40,840 S1: off everything in their catalog. Come on in. Eight. Six. Six. Nine. Five. 62 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:48,160 S1: Faber is our number. 1-866-953-2279. Or go to Chris Faber 63 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,560 S1: dot ORG. And again, thank you for your support of 64 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,270 S1: the Radio backyard fence. All right, ladies and gentlemen, get 65 00:03:56,270 --> 00:04:00,550 S1: ready to welcome Doctor Foster and Doctor Williams. Doctor JP 66 00:04:00,590 --> 00:04:04,510 S1: foster serves as senior pastor at Faithful Central Bible Church, 67 00:04:04,510 --> 00:04:08,230 S1: one of the largest, most influential congregations in Southern California. 68 00:04:08,630 --> 00:04:12,270 S1: His messages have impacted thousands, both in the Los Angeles 69 00:04:12,310 --> 00:04:15,670 S1: area and around the world, as he encourages people to 70 00:04:15,710 --> 00:04:19,150 S1: build their lives on the foundation of God, God's Word. 71 00:04:19,230 --> 00:04:22,750 S1: He spent the past seven years teaching courses in biblical interpretation, 72 00:04:22,750 --> 00:04:28,630 S1: spiritual formation and hermeneutics at Biola and Talbot School of Theology. 73 00:04:28,790 --> 00:04:31,310 S1: Doctor foster, welcome to the program. How are you doing today? 74 00:04:31,830 --> 00:04:33,270 S2: I'm doing well, Chris. How are you? 75 00:04:33,550 --> 00:04:37,990 S1: I'm great and I'm much better having met you and 76 00:04:37,990 --> 00:04:41,750 S1: Doctor Matt Williams, who is New Testament professor and director 77 00:04:41,750 --> 00:04:46,150 S1: of Accelerated master's programs in viola. No, he's not just 78 00:04:46,190 --> 00:04:49,909 S1: happy with master's program. He's got to accelerate things. He 79 00:04:49,910 --> 00:04:53,229 S1: spent six, six years as a missionary professor to the 80 00:04:53,230 --> 00:04:57,450 S1: Spanish Bible Institute and seminary in Barcelona, taught at Trinity 81 00:04:57,490 --> 00:05:02,330 S1: Evangelical Divinity School, Trinity International University, North Park University and Seminary. 82 00:05:02,650 --> 00:05:06,290 S1: Teaches and preaches at various churches and conferences throughout the U.S. 83 00:05:06,290 --> 00:05:10,890 S1: and Spain. Betty speaks Spanish, too. Matt, do you speak Spanish? 84 00:05:11,450 --> 00:05:16,170 S3: Yeah, I actually taught in Spanish in Barcelona. Look at you. Yeah. 85 00:05:16,210 --> 00:05:18,969 S1: You could translate your own book into Spanish then, couldn't you? 86 00:05:19,290 --> 00:05:23,050 S3: I've actually I have a team. We've translated 62 different 87 00:05:23,089 --> 00:05:26,210 S3: theological books in Spanish. Wow. That's fantastic. 88 00:05:26,250 --> 00:05:28,729 S1: Yeah. Oh, this is going to be fun, folks, because. 89 00:05:28,770 --> 00:05:32,010 S1: Because the title of the book, our featured resource today 90 00:05:32,010 --> 00:05:37,130 S1: is Finding Freedom in Jesus the 21 Attributes of Your 91 00:05:37,130 --> 00:05:42,770 S1: Identity in Christ. And as I read this, I thought, okay, here's, 92 00:05:42,770 --> 00:05:45,570 S1: here's how I would try to sum this up. How 93 00:05:45,570 --> 00:05:47,969 S1: do I get the truth that I believe that I've 94 00:05:47,970 --> 00:05:50,010 S1: read in the Bible? How do I get the truth 95 00:05:50,010 --> 00:05:52,850 S1: that I believe from my head to my heart? How 96 00:05:52,850 --> 00:05:56,720 S1: do I not simply understand the concept, for example, of 97 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:01,240 S1: God's love? But how do I live loved? Is that 98 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:02,920 S1: kind of the idea? First, you. 99 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:07,920 S2: JP yes, yes it is. The book has been an 100 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:12,480 S2: incredible blessing. Um, Matt and I have taught this with 101 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,560 S2: students and parishioners in our church. And I think there's 102 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:20,240 S2: a massive difference between having information and transformation. I think 103 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:24,240 S2: when you read scripture or you read a book, there's information. Uh, 104 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,080 S2: we tried our best to design this book in a 105 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,960 S2: way that when you understand who you are, you'll know 106 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,360 S2: who you are. And so we've worked really hard to 107 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,719 S2: fill the, the biblical literacy gap where so many Christians, 108 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:37,719 S2: if you ask them today who they are in Christ, 109 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,880 S2: you ask them, what does it mean to be saved? 110 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,920 S2: Sometimes it's emotive and sometimes they just don't have an 111 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,400 S2: adequate answer. And so with this book, we've tried our 112 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,839 S2: best to dive into what are the some key attributes 113 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,630 S2: about our identity in Christ that we can overcome negative self-talk, 114 00:06:54,070 --> 00:06:56,390 S2: the struggles we may have in our faith and our journey, 115 00:06:56,390 --> 00:06:58,190 S2: and just to help us to be more confident so 116 00:06:58,190 --> 00:07:00,630 S2: we can actually live out and walk out this faith. 117 00:07:01,150 --> 00:07:04,110 S2: Scripture says, uh, not to just be hearers of the word, 118 00:07:04,110 --> 00:07:07,310 S2: but doers also. And so Matt and I, he's an 119 00:07:07,310 --> 00:07:10,350 S2: incredible New Testament scholar. We worked and wrestled. I think 120 00:07:10,350 --> 00:07:13,790 S2: we had over almost 60 different terms, but we came 121 00:07:13,790 --> 00:07:15,750 S2: down to 21. And these are the ones I think 122 00:07:15,790 --> 00:07:19,110 S2: are extremely transformational for any season. You are in your 123 00:07:19,110 --> 00:07:21,390 S2: life from a 19 year old to someone who was 124 00:07:21,390 --> 00:07:24,990 S2: 87 years old. Um, was blessed by what the Lord 125 00:07:24,990 --> 00:07:26,190 S2: has been doing through this book. 126 00:07:26,230 --> 00:07:28,750 S1: And the other thing that goes in there is the 127 00:07:28,790 --> 00:07:33,270 S1: roller coaster of feelings, because so much of today's world 128 00:07:33,270 --> 00:07:35,390 S1: is based on, well, how do I feel about this? 129 00:07:35,390 --> 00:07:37,630 S1: How do I feel forgiven today? Well, no, I don't 130 00:07:37,630 --> 00:07:40,830 S1: feel so. I must not be. And the feelings, you know, 131 00:07:40,870 --> 00:07:43,790 S1: are part of us. How we're made, emotions, our makeup. 132 00:07:43,830 --> 00:07:46,309 S1: That's how God made us. But if we let our 133 00:07:46,310 --> 00:07:50,390 S1: feelings lead us, you know, and guide us around, we 134 00:07:50,390 --> 00:07:53,410 S1: can end up in some really bad places. Matt, respond 135 00:07:53,410 --> 00:07:53,890 S1: to that. 136 00:07:54,810 --> 00:07:58,410 S3: Yeah. That's true. Um, my wife and I actually took 137 00:07:58,410 --> 00:08:03,530 S3: a test when we were engaged and she, she's a 95% feeler. 138 00:08:04,050 --> 00:08:08,410 S3: I'm a 5% feeler. So we've kind of worn off 139 00:08:08,410 --> 00:08:12,530 S3: on each other over the years. We're kind of more 50/50. Uh, 140 00:08:12,530 --> 00:08:16,690 S3: but yeah, working with students over, you know, nearly three decades, 141 00:08:17,250 --> 00:08:20,650 S3: the feelings are a big thing, but we can actually 142 00:08:20,650 --> 00:08:24,490 S3: change those feelings if we think the right things, but 143 00:08:24,490 --> 00:08:26,890 S3: we have to think the right things over and over 144 00:08:26,890 --> 00:08:30,050 S3: and over again. So, um, what we try to do 145 00:08:30,090 --> 00:08:33,090 S3: in the book is we gave exercises and one that 146 00:08:33,090 --> 00:08:37,250 S3: my students have really found helpful is we do breathing 147 00:08:37,250 --> 00:08:41,650 S3: exercises of the truth of Scripture. So, you know, a 148 00:08:41,650 --> 00:08:45,650 S3: lot of counselors and even the Navy Seals say, you know, 149 00:08:45,730 --> 00:08:50,240 S3: you should do breathing. It helps you with anxiety And, um, 150 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,199 S3: you know, neuroplasticity to think the right things and then 151 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,600 S3: feel the right things. Well, I don't think we should 152 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,800 S3: count to four. That doesn't help us in understanding our 153 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,839 S3: identity in Christ. So, uh, JP and I put words 154 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,840 S3: with all of these. Uh, so instead of counting to four, 155 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,280 S3: you know, like for redeemed, we're talking about bought with 156 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,640 S3: a price, you breathe that in, bought with a price 157 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:22,640 S3: set free forever. And, uh, we're breathing these truths over 158 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,120 S3: and over and over again. And what we've seen, because 159 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,320 S3: we're both using this text this semester in our class, 160 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,480 S3: even though it just came out, is that there's a 161 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,880 S3: change not just in thinking, but in the feelings that 162 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,240 S3: come along. Feelings are kind of the caboose, right? Yes, yes. 163 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,360 S3: If you think the right thing, eventually your feelings will 164 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:43,520 S3: come along with you. 165 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,160 S1: Well, isn't that the way love is? If you. If 166 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,190 S1: you love someone, you commend your love to. I mean, 167 00:09:49,190 --> 00:09:51,030 S1: you can have the feelings for them, but what if 168 00:09:51,030 --> 00:09:52,670 S1: you don't have the feeling? And I got to love 169 00:09:52,670 --> 00:09:54,829 S1: my neighbor and I don't want to. You start to 170 00:09:54,870 --> 00:09:58,150 S1: act like you love. You start to move toward them, 171 00:09:58,150 --> 00:10:01,870 S1: your heart toward them, and then you realize you wake 172 00:10:01,870 --> 00:10:04,830 S1: up one day. I really like this person. I really 173 00:10:04,830 --> 00:10:06,350 S1: care about this person. Right? 174 00:10:06,670 --> 00:10:08,750 S3: Yeah. That's right. Yeah. 175 00:10:08,790 --> 00:10:13,270 S2: And feelings are also fleeting. Feelings. Feelings are fleeting. And 176 00:10:13,270 --> 00:10:15,070 S2: even though you may be feeling a certain way, it 177 00:10:15,070 --> 00:10:19,550 S2: doesn't necessarily mean that it's true. Right. And I think 178 00:10:19,550 --> 00:10:23,070 S2: when we couple that with scripture, it helps us to 179 00:10:23,429 --> 00:10:26,950 S2: take in and be transformed by the truth of what 180 00:10:26,990 --> 00:10:29,309 S2: God's Word says. And I think that's what's been so powerful. 181 00:10:29,309 --> 00:10:31,990 S2: I had a student who told me that they were 182 00:10:32,550 --> 00:10:35,510 S2: they just felt out of place. And when they read 183 00:10:35,510 --> 00:10:39,870 S2: through what it means to be forgiven, it began to 184 00:10:39,870 --> 00:10:42,429 S2: transform their life. And I think sometimes people give their 185 00:10:42,429 --> 00:10:45,550 S2: life to Christ. They're wrestling with their past and some 186 00:10:45,550 --> 00:10:52,060 S2: of the, Um, baggage, trauma or sins that they've committed. 187 00:10:52,059 --> 00:10:54,620 S2: And when they come to Christ, they're wrestling with, um, 188 00:10:54,660 --> 00:10:57,380 S2: questions like, does God really forgive me? And I think 189 00:10:57,380 --> 00:10:59,780 S2: when they understand the truth, when the student went through 190 00:10:59,780 --> 00:11:03,300 S2: the truth of what forgiving actually means, it was liberating, 191 00:11:03,780 --> 00:11:07,060 S2: absolutely liberating. And so we've seen the fruit of, of 192 00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:10,420 S2: the transformation process of getting the information and turning it 193 00:11:10,420 --> 00:11:13,819 S2: into transformation, into actually living it out. And as Matt said, 194 00:11:13,820 --> 00:11:16,900 S2: sometimes it's the repetition of when the feeling comes that 195 00:11:16,900 --> 00:11:18,860 S2: I don't feel forgiven or I feel guilty, or I 196 00:11:18,860 --> 00:11:23,260 S2: feel shameful, then reminding yourself what God's Word says and 197 00:11:23,260 --> 00:11:25,420 S2: then taking in that truth. When those moments happen and 198 00:11:25,420 --> 00:11:28,900 S2: we're seeing significant transformation throughout that process. And I also 199 00:11:28,900 --> 00:11:33,860 S2: share this, Chris, we've noticed that when people accept being forgiven, 200 00:11:33,860 --> 00:11:38,220 S2: they're more willing to forgive. So loved people love more 201 00:11:38,780 --> 00:11:42,980 S2: forgiven people, forgive, bless people, bless others. And we're seeing 202 00:11:42,980 --> 00:11:44,180 S2: this over and over again. 203 00:11:44,620 --> 00:11:45,140 S3: Yes. 204 00:11:45,179 --> 00:11:47,320 S1: How many times have you heard that? It's like someone 205 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,959 S1: forgives someone. And we've had this, you know, in a 206 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,360 S1: big way as far as up front way. You know, 207 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,080 S1: I forgive you. And other people will say, well, I 208 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,920 S1: could never do that. I could never I never could 209 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:02,839 S1: conceive of someone who did that to, you know, my 210 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,800 S1: family and my forgiving that other person. And that's I, 211 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,679 S1: and I get that. Um, but I also realize that's 212 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,800 S1: a peek into your soul. Uh, the forgiveness that you've 213 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,719 S1: received yourself. So let me call a time out. We're 214 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,199 S1: going to take a break. When I come back, you've 215 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,720 S1: heard a couple of the 21 here in Finding Freedom 216 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,319 S1: in Jesus doctor JP foster doctor Matt Williams are joining 217 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,960 S1: us today. I'm going to ask them of all the 218 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,840 S1: attributes of the identity of their identity in Christ, which 219 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,880 S1: is the one they've struggled with most through the years. 220 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,160 S1: And my guess is there's somebody who needs to hear 221 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,910 S1: what they've been struggling with because you're you've been struggling 222 00:12:44,910 --> 00:12:49,710 S1: with the same thing. Go to chris.org. Our featured resource, 223 00:12:49,710 --> 00:13:02,910 S1: Finding Freedom in Jesus more straight ahead. Two guests for 224 00:13:02,910 --> 00:13:06,790 S1: you today. Two doctors, Matt Williams, New Testament professor at Biola. 225 00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:10,790 S1: JP foster, senior pastor of Faithful Central Bible Church in 226 00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:15,110 S1: Los Angeles. And they have come up with 21 attributes 227 00:13:15,470 --> 00:13:18,950 S1: of your identity in Christ. And each of these you 228 00:13:18,950 --> 00:13:20,630 S1: could you could take this or you could read them. 229 00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:24,310 S1: One in every day for 21 days. You could do 230 00:13:24,309 --> 00:13:27,310 S1: a study of these. One a week for 21 weeks, 231 00:13:27,309 --> 00:13:30,910 S1: which I would I would prefer because you get to 232 00:13:30,910 --> 00:13:33,510 S1: dig in a little bit deeper. Or you could do 233 00:13:33,510 --> 00:13:36,710 S1: this in a in a study in a small group study. 234 00:13:36,950 --> 00:13:41,350 S1: It just is. It's freeing. And that's why they titled 235 00:13:41,350 --> 00:13:44,580 S1: the book Finding Freedom in Jesus. You're going to hear 236 00:13:44,580 --> 00:13:48,180 S1: more about that today if you go to Chris Fabry live.org. 237 00:13:48,220 --> 00:13:49,980 S1: We have a link. And if you have a question 238 00:13:49,980 --> 00:13:56,179 S1: or comment, (877) 548-3675. Okay. The first question then is personal. 239 00:13:56,380 --> 00:13:59,059 S1: Of all of these attributes, I want you to choose 240 00:13:59,059 --> 00:14:03,420 S1: one that you have struggled with most through the years. 241 00:14:03,460 --> 00:14:05,260 S1: JP let's start with you first. 242 00:14:06,420 --> 00:14:08,580 S2: Uh, the one I struggle with the most. Chris I 243 00:14:08,580 --> 00:14:12,380 S2: just preached on Sunday, which is holy that over the years, 244 00:14:12,420 --> 00:14:14,420 S2: especially when I initially gave my life to Christ, I 245 00:14:14,420 --> 00:14:19,500 S2: think the term holy has been the hardest. And the 246 00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:21,660 S2: reason is because when I first gave my life to Christ, Chris, 247 00:14:21,660 --> 00:14:25,220 S2: I didn't really grow up in church. So for me, um, 248 00:14:25,260 --> 00:14:28,380 S2: understanding what it meant to be a believer, what it 249 00:14:28,380 --> 00:14:31,619 S2: meant to, um, accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior, 250 00:14:31,940 --> 00:14:34,860 S2: the context that I was, I was in as I 251 00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:37,820 S2: gave my life to Christ, I felt like no one 252 00:14:37,820 --> 00:14:39,740 S2: around me in the church at the time ever had 253 00:14:39,740 --> 00:14:43,120 S2: any problems. It was almost like it was Pleasantville and 254 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,360 S2: everyone around me just wasn't wasn't struggling with anything but 255 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,160 S2: the way that the context I was in Chris, it 256 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,360 S2: made it feel like holiness was a light switch that 257 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,480 S2: the moment you gave your life to Christ, you know 258 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,080 S2: you'll have no more problems. You can take all your 259 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:58,960 S2: problems away. You don't have to worry about anything. And 260 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,960 S2: then I wondered, so that means holiness is a light switch. 261 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,800 S2: Like you give your life to Christ and all of 262 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,280 S2: a sudden everything is perfect. Then I noticed that that 263 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,080 S2: that wasn't happening. And I was struggling and wrestling with 264 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,240 S2: stuff that I would, I had dealt with over the years. And, um, 265 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,360 S2: it was, I wasn't really, I was wrestling with my 266 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,320 S2: relationship with God. I was wondering if I was out 267 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,880 S2: of place, you know, am I really saved? AM I, 268 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,920 S2: you know, what's going on? And I started reading the 269 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,480 S2: Bible on my own. And the more I studied, the 270 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,240 S2: more I read. I started realizing, um, what, what Scripture 271 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,960 S2: means when, when God says we're holy and how we 272 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,440 S2: receive holiness or righteousness or justification by faith in Jesus. 273 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,430 S2: And so Chris, for me, understanding, I now can simplify 274 00:15:41,470 --> 00:15:46,750 S2: or synthesize holiness into two categories his essence, God's essence, 275 00:15:46,750 --> 00:15:49,830 S2: the essence of God. God is Holy. Scripture says, be holy, 276 00:15:49,830 --> 00:15:52,710 S2: for I am holy. And then it is a life 277 00:15:52,710 --> 00:15:55,470 S2: that's devoted or dedicated to his presence. So I have 278 00:15:55,470 --> 00:15:58,870 S2: to understand that God is in his essence, his nature. 279 00:15:58,870 --> 00:16:03,470 S2: He's a holy God. He's holy. And so holiness isn't 280 00:16:03,470 --> 00:16:06,430 S2: what he does. Holiness is who he is. And then 281 00:16:06,430 --> 00:16:11,190 S2: through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, through my, my salvation, my, 282 00:16:11,230 --> 00:16:14,950 S2: my faith in him, I then receive righteousness and I'm 283 00:16:14,950 --> 00:16:18,070 S2: in right standing before God. And so I realized that 284 00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:21,630 S2: what is what is holiness exactly? Well, Scripture will reveal 285 00:16:21,630 --> 00:16:24,110 S2: to us and theologically it is to be set apart 286 00:16:24,110 --> 00:16:27,150 S2: from and set apart for. And I think in the 287 00:16:27,150 --> 00:16:29,790 S2: church context for me, I was always wrestling with. It 288 00:16:29,790 --> 00:16:32,310 S2: was holiness was you do this. Holiness was you, you 289 00:16:32,510 --> 00:16:34,110 S2: do this, you behave a certain way. And there is 290 00:16:34,110 --> 00:16:38,790 S2: an aspect of being set apart from that I should be, 291 00:16:39,220 --> 00:16:43,220 S2: I should, I should, I should engage in sin, but 292 00:16:43,260 --> 00:16:46,540 S2: in my humanity, I'm going to wrestle with temptation. I'm 293 00:16:46,540 --> 00:16:48,700 S2: going to wrestle with. And I'm not trying to justify sin. 294 00:16:48,980 --> 00:16:51,140 S2: What I'm saying is that in my humanity I'm going 295 00:16:51,180 --> 00:16:53,780 S2: to wrestle with temptation and sin. But what is what 296 00:16:53,780 --> 00:16:56,820 S2: does it mean to be holy? Holy means to be sanctified? 297 00:16:56,820 --> 00:16:59,900 S2: New Testament word or to be set apart. And so 298 00:17:00,100 --> 00:17:04,220 S2: even simplifying understanding of Scripture reveals to us that we 299 00:17:04,220 --> 00:17:07,859 S2: must be set apart from the world, but set apart 300 00:17:07,859 --> 00:17:12,020 S2: for God's purposes, set apart for God's glory, set apart 301 00:17:12,020 --> 00:17:15,020 S2: to be devoted to God. And I think when I 302 00:17:15,020 --> 00:17:22,100 S2: understood the concept of sanctification, that I am sanctified, positioned 303 00:17:22,100 --> 00:17:26,260 S2: in Christ, when I receive him, I am progressively now 304 00:17:26,260 --> 00:17:30,899 S2: being transformed into the image of Christ, which is progressive. 305 00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:34,340 S2: So I'm. I'm be you, be. We are be being transformed. 306 00:17:34,380 --> 00:17:37,840 S2: It's in a continual continuous tense. Yes. And then when 307 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,000 S2: he returns, I'll be glorified. So I'll be perfected. So 308 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,480 S2: there's this positional sanctification. There's this progressive sanctification that we're 309 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,120 S2: living in now. And then we'll be perfected when Christ returns. 310 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,240 S2: That was Chris that was so liberating for me, because 311 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,000 S2: it made me realize that every single day I wake up, 312 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,000 S2: Paul says, I die daily. Jesus says, if you want 313 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,800 S2: to be my disciple and Chris, I am, I want to. 314 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,480 S2: I want to be a follower and a learner of Jesus. 315 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,000 S2: That means I must deny myself. I must pick up 316 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,760 S2: my cross and I must follow him daily. So holy 317 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,119 S2: was the hardest one for me. I wrestled with it 318 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,359 S2: for a long time, but because I didn't really fully 319 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,120 S2: understand what God meant in His Word when he says 320 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,280 S2: that we're holy. And so me receiving, I think Hebrews 321 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:25,440 S2: 1010 says that because the one who was called us 322 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,560 S2: is holy, we then should be holy in all that 323 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,080 S2: we do. And so through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. 324 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,400 S2: And so I'm forgiven for my sins. From the sacrifice 325 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,910 S2: of Jesus, I have received forgiveness and cleansing of my 326 00:18:37,910 --> 00:18:41,510 S2: sins from the sacrifice of Jesus. But I'm also holy. 327 00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:43,990 S2: Because of the sacrifice of Jesus. I am set apart 328 00:18:43,990 --> 00:18:46,990 S2: from this world, and my life is devoted to God. 329 00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:48,870 S2: So holy is the one that I wrestle with the most. 330 00:18:48,869 --> 00:18:51,949 S2: But Chris, I'm liberated because I'm home. 331 00:18:52,109 --> 00:18:55,350 S1: You're free. You're free. Okay, so here's how I process 332 00:18:55,350 --> 00:18:58,310 S1: what you just said. So much of the problem, and 333 00:18:58,310 --> 00:19:01,470 S1: I identify with everything you've just talked about. So much 334 00:19:01,470 --> 00:19:04,550 S1: of the problem is comparison. You know, I see somebody 335 00:19:04,550 --> 00:19:07,109 S1: else who seems holier than me. So I'm looking around 336 00:19:07,109 --> 00:19:10,110 S1: and comparing myself with somebody else, which is not a 337 00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:13,070 S1: not a good thing to do, but it's all about performance. 338 00:19:13,070 --> 00:19:16,550 S1: If I perform, then I am holy. If I don't perform, 339 00:19:16,550 --> 00:19:19,790 S1: then I'm not. If I sin, I'm not holy. If 340 00:19:19,790 --> 00:19:21,830 S1: I if I do the right thing, or at least 341 00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:23,870 S1: what I think is the right thing, then you know, 342 00:19:23,910 --> 00:19:26,869 S1: I'm getting closer there, but I never really get there. 343 00:19:27,070 --> 00:19:31,470 S1: And that's why the imputation of the righteousness of Christ 344 00:19:31,470 --> 00:19:34,860 S1: on us. And we don't use that word impute, good, 345 00:19:35,140 --> 00:19:38,300 S1: but it it it's true. This is the gift that 346 00:19:38,300 --> 00:19:41,260 S1: he has given you. Walk in it, right? 347 00:19:41,260 --> 00:19:46,980 S2: Yes, yes. Yeah, that's absolutely correct. And there's, there's freedom 348 00:19:46,980 --> 00:19:48,419 S2: in understanding that. 349 00:19:49,580 --> 00:19:52,939 S1: Freedom, I love it. Okay. Before I go to you, Matt, 350 00:19:52,940 --> 00:19:55,300 S1: I want to go to Skeeter. Skeeter is on the line. 351 00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:58,100 S1: Skeeter does what we just talked about. Does that sing 352 00:19:58,100 --> 00:19:58,820 S1: in your soul? 353 00:20:00,020 --> 00:20:06,980 S4: Man, that guy just read my email. Um, because because 354 00:20:07,260 --> 00:20:10,660 S4: what I struggle with the most is not the before 355 00:20:11,140 --> 00:20:15,659 S4: I came to Christ, it's the after how often I 356 00:20:15,660 --> 00:20:18,940 S4: have like, why did you do that? Why? It's, it's, 357 00:20:18,980 --> 00:20:23,940 S4: that's what has been the struggle for me. Um, and 358 00:20:23,940 --> 00:20:27,540 S4: what he just said is realizing that I have the 359 00:20:27,540 --> 00:20:32,580 S4: righteousness of Christ. That's, I mean, what he just said. Uh, 360 00:20:33,140 --> 00:20:35,840 S4: you have a camp meeting on it. You know what 361 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:36,320 S4: I mean? 362 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:37,440 S2: Well, uh. 363 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,760 S4: So, uh, it's, uh. I've just enjoyed listening. It's like 364 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,280 S4: I really didn't need to call. He just. He just 365 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,400 S4: voiced my same struggle. 366 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,080 S1: Bingo. Skeeter, hang on. I want to send you a 367 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,120 S1: copy of this. We're going to figure out some some 368 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,320 S1: way to get it to you. Send it on the 369 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,239 S1: Pony Express, because I think it's going to do the 370 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,280 S1: same thing in other people's lives. It's like you've struggled 371 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:06,639 S1: with this or the whole forgiveness angle, uh, for before 372 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,720 S1: you were a Christian or after in can, am I 373 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,840 S1: really forgiven here or do I have to perform? So 374 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,760 S1: that takes me. So hang on, Skeeter, we'll get your information. 375 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,719 S1: That takes me to you, Doctor Williams. Matt. Uh, what's 376 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,480 S1: the one that you have struggled with? 377 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,720 S3: Yeah. So I knew that JP was going to say 378 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,840 S3: Holy because I was at his church Sunday when he 379 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,200 S3: talked about that. But, you know, that's I think that's 380 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,110 S3: the hardest one for all of us. You know, we 381 00:21:33,150 --> 00:21:35,950 S3: we get that God's holy. And we get that the 382 00:21:35,950 --> 00:21:40,350 S3: seraphim are surrounding his throne room and they're crying, Holy, holy, holy. 383 00:21:40,350 --> 00:21:46,510 S3: But me, me. I'm holy. Um, yeah. So JP did 384 00:21:46,510 --> 00:21:49,230 S3: a great job of explaining that. But another one that's 385 00:21:49,230 --> 00:21:52,910 S3: really difficult for me is the term loved that I 386 00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:56,430 S3: am loved. So I wrote in the book that when 387 00:21:56,430 --> 00:21:58,910 S3: I grew up, my dad didn't tell me that he 388 00:21:58,910 --> 00:22:02,270 S3: loved me. I kind of figured that he did based 389 00:22:02,270 --> 00:22:05,790 S3: on his actions, but not always because he was also, 390 00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:08,590 S3: you know, a little bit angry. And so I didn't 391 00:22:08,590 --> 00:22:12,910 S3: have that stability of knowing that somebody in my corner 392 00:22:12,910 --> 00:22:17,430 S3: and somebody loves me no matter what I do. And 393 00:22:17,430 --> 00:22:20,950 S3: so again, we get back to the performance issue, right? 394 00:22:21,310 --> 00:22:25,270 S3: I felt like I had to do enough in order 395 00:22:25,270 --> 00:22:28,070 S3: to be loved, not just by my parents, but by 396 00:22:28,430 --> 00:22:33,900 S3: everybody around me. And boy, that that can cause some issues, 397 00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:38,500 S3: can it? Um, so I'm, I'm married to a woman that, 398 00:22:38,540 --> 00:22:40,700 S3: you know, she's been through the highs and the lows 399 00:22:40,700 --> 00:22:43,139 S3: of my life and she loves me no matter what. 400 00:22:43,619 --> 00:22:46,500 S3: But when I'm out and about, I mean, even on 401 00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:49,820 S3: this radio show, there's an element of me that, gosh, 402 00:22:49,820 --> 00:22:54,540 S3: I better perform well or I'm not going to be accepted. 403 00:22:54,540 --> 00:22:57,660 S3: I'm not going to be loved by people. And so, 404 00:22:57,859 --> 00:23:02,820 S3: you know, in this term, I am loved. The next 405 00:23:02,820 --> 00:23:05,260 S3: term after is I'm known, I'm known by God and 406 00:23:05,260 --> 00:23:08,460 S3: I'm loved by God no matter what. Now, that doesn't 407 00:23:08,460 --> 00:23:11,580 S3: give me free rein to go do whatever I want, 408 00:23:12,020 --> 00:23:14,940 S3: but to know that he's going to love me, say, 409 00:23:14,980 --> 00:23:19,500 S3: you know, hey, Matt, you messed up. Let's keep going. Okay. 410 00:23:19,540 --> 00:23:22,740 S3: All right. Somebody in my corner. Somebody got my back. 411 00:23:23,020 --> 00:23:26,780 S3: And that makes all the difference in the world. Yes. 412 00:23:27,380 --> 00:23:31,080 S1: Well, and that and that those two together, you know, 413 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,800 S1: probably for me is the same thing. It's that I've 414 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,480 S1: struggled with, okay, I can, I can believe that God 415 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,080 S1: loved me enough to commend his love to me that 416 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,960 S1: while I was yet a sinner, Christ died in my place. 417 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:50,000 S1: But it feels like it can be separated from the personal. 418 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,600 S1: You know, it's like there's all those sinners out there 419 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,520 S1: that need saving and I'm going to God's going to 420 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,159 S1: do this for all of them. But what he did 421 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,919 S1: in Christ was made it personal, just like of the 422 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,000 S1: raising of Lazarus and anything that happened there, you know, 423 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,959 S1: the miracles that he did. He loves you enough to 424 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,920 S1: give himself for you, but he also knows you. Now, 425 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,640 S1: how could anybody who knows me all the way down 426 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,680 S1: to the heart level love me like that? It's very 427 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,040 S1: hard for me to wrap my head around because I'm 428 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,199 S1: very much in that performance mindset. If I do the 429 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,800 S1: right thing, if I toe the line, if I'm, you know, 430 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,070 S1: do all of those achieve? Then I'm going to be loved. 431 00:24:32,109 --> 00:24:34,630 S1: Then I'm going to be known and seen. But what 432 00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:38,109 S1: if I mess up? Yeah. And and you're saying that 433 00:24:38,109 --> 00:24:41,910 S1: that is. Well. And then it goes to beautiful. Finish 434 00:24:41,910 --> 00:24:43,550 S1: your thought there, Matt. We'll take a break. 435 00:24:43,830 --> 00:24:46,429 S3: Well, I mean, it's from the very beginning. Right? Adam 436 00:24:46,430 --> 00:24:48,790 S3: and Eve, what did they do as soon as they 437 00:24:48,790 --> 00:24:53,469 S3: messed up. They hid. And we do the same thing, right? 438 00:24:53,510 --> 00:24:57,030 S3: We we don't want to be known by people. And 439 00:24:57,030 --> 00:25:01,429 S3: so we hide the difficult things. And people never really 440 00:25:01,430 --> 00:25:04,669 S3: get to know the real us. And because of that, 441 00:25:04,670 --> 00:25:09,149 S3: we can't, you know, iron, iron, we can't really talk 442 00:25:09,150 --> 00:25:11,910 S3: to people and go, okay, I'm messed up. You're messed up. 443 00:25:12,150 --> 00:25:16,710 S3: Let's talk about this and become more sanctified and holy 444 00:25:16,710 --> 00:25:18,230 S3: together in this. 445 00:25:18,710 --> 00:25:21,790 S1: All right, here's my guess. As you're listening today, you're 446 00:25:21,790 --> 00:25:25,510 S1: looking at the radio or your device and you're saying, 447 00:25:25,550 --> 00:25:28,340 S1: how did these guys know? How do they know that 448 00:25:28,340 --> 00:25:31,620 S1: this is what I'm dealing with? Maybe there's shame and guilt. 449 00:25:31,619 --> 00:25:33,780 S1: We're going to talk about that coming up in our 450 00:25:33,780 --> 00:25:36,500 S1: next segment. But I want you to go to the website. 451 00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:39,220 S1: You can find out more about JP Foster and Matt 452 00:25:39,220 --> 00:25:43,780 S1: Williams finding Freedom in Jesus. Don't miss this. This is 453 00:25:43,780 --> 00:25:46,820 S1: a best of broadcast of Chris Fabry live. And there's 454 00:25:46,820 --> 00:26:06,900 S1: more coming up straight ahead on Moody Radio. This is 455 00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:09,460 S1: a best of broadcast of Chris Fabry Live. Don't call 456 00:26:09,460 --> 00:26:13,820 S1: us today, friend and disregard dated information like the Dodgers 457 00:26:13,820 --> 00:26:17,100 S1: winning the World Series. I mentioned that coming up, but 458 00:26:17,100 --> 00:26:19,859 S1: I wanted to reiterate here today. My guess is there's 459 00:26:19,859 --> 00:26:23,219 S1: somebody listening right now, and we are speaking to your 460 00:26:23,220 --> 00:26:28,330 S1: heart and your soul because We're talking about your identity 461 00:26:28,330 --> 00:26:33,210 S1: in Christ, not simply as a theological proposition, not just 462 00:26:33,210 --> 00:26:36,330 S1: something for you to think about in your head and 463 00:26:36,330 --> 00:26:38,850 S1: to say, oh, that's nice to know and to go on, 464 00:26:39,290 --> 00:26:41,969 S1: but to get it from here right in your. And 465 00:26:41,970 --> 00:26:47,290 S1: pointing to my temple down to here, pointing to my heart. Right. 466 00:26:47,290 --> 00:26:48,890 S1: You got to get it from your head to your 467 00:26:48,890 --> 00:26:53,170 S1: heart so that you live what you say you believe. 468 00:26:53,210 --> 00:26:56,050 S1: You don't just have knowledge about who God has made 469 00:26:56,050 --> 00:26:59,810 S1: you to be. You are empowered to live it out, 470 00:26:59,810 --> 00:27:03,010 S1: to work it out. And that's what our guests are 471 00:27:03,010 --> 00:27:07,210 S1: talking about in their book, Finding Freedom in Jesus The 472 00:27:07,210 --> 00:27:12,290 S1: 21 Attributes of Your Identity in Christ, by Doctor Matt Williams, 473 00:27:12,290 --> 00:27:16,770 S1: who has taught New Testament at Biola and at the 474 00:27:16,810 --> 00:27:20,570 S1: Talbot School of Theology for 23 years. You're way too 475 00:27:20,570 --> 00:27:24,690 S1: young for that. Matt. And, uh, doctor JP foster, who 476 00:27:24,750 --> 00:27:29,270 S1: serves at Faithful Central Bible Church in Los Angeles, senior 477 00:27:29,270 --> 00:27:31,710 S1: pastor there. You must have been jumping up and down 478 00:27:31,710 --> 00:27:34,350 S1: when those Dodgers won. Is that true, J.P.? 479 00:27:34,990 --> 00:27:38,750 S2: Absolutely. Absolutely. It was a it was hard, though. That 480 00:27:38,750 --> 00:27:40,590 S2: was a hard game to watch. Game seven was very 481 00:27:40,590 --> 00:27:41,229 S2: hard to watch. 482 00:27:41,710 --> 00:27:45,070 S1: Both six and seven. It was okay, we won't go there. 483 00:27:45,070 --> 00:27:47,470 S1: We'll be talking about that the whole time. There's probably 484 00:27:47,470 --> 00:27:51,550 S1: something in those baseball games too that, um, that that 485 00:27:51,550 --> 00:27:54,910 S1: bleeds into this. You know, what your identity is, is 486 00:27:54,910 --> 00:27:57,670 S1: your identity and do you win? You know, are you 487 00:27:57,710 --> 00:28:00,229 S1: the champion? What if you don't win? You know, that 488 00:28:00,230 --> 00:28:03,830 S1: kind of thing. But, but I digress. Um, I want 489 00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:07,190 S1: you to talk about self-talk because that I think, Matt, 490 00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:11,950 S1: you teach this in your class, you ask your students 491 00:28:12,190 --> 00:28:16,510 S1: to just listen to what they say to themselves and 492 00:28:16,750 --> 00:28:20,470 S1: they just write it down. Write down what you, you 493 00:28:20,510 --> 00:28:22,950 S1: think every day. Tell us what they wrote down. 494 00:28:23,580 --> 00:28:27,180 S3: Yeah. I think that most of us usually we're not 495 00:28:27,180 --> 00:28:30,219 S3: aware of our self-talk because we're so used to it. 496 00:28:30,260 --> 00:28:33,540 S3: It's a familiar voice. So I tell them, you know, 497 00:28:33,580 --> 00:28:37,659 S3: just jot it down. Don't critique it. Just jot it down. 498 00:28:37,660 --> 00:28:39,900 S3: When you're in those quiet moments, when you're in the 499 00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:42,620 S3: loud moments and all of a sudden you realize you're 500 00:28:42,620 --> 00:28:46,700 S3: saying something. And I'll tell you, Chris, it's, it's one 501 00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:49,500 S3: of the saddest things that I've ever seen is when 502 00:28:49,500 --> 00:28:52,660 S3: I got the list. So these are, you know, these 503 00:28:52,660 --> 00:28:55,860 S3: are Christians. Most of them grew up in Christian homes. 504 00:28:56,620 --> 00:28:59,220 S3: And here's what they wrote. This is just a sampling. 505 00:28:59,220 --> 00:29:04,540 S3: They said, I am not enough. I deserve to be belittled. 506 00:29:05,500 --> 00:29:10,780 S3: I am not worth people's time. I'm so messed up. 507 00:29:11,420 --> 00:29:14,700 S3: I wish I were someone else. And the list just 508 00:29:14,700 --> 00:29:18,140 S3: goes on and on and on. So that's what people 509 00:29:18,140 --> 00:29:21,100 S3: are telling themselves over and over and over again. And 510 00:29:21,140 --> 00:29:24,170 S3: of course, you know Satan, the enemy. He loves that. 511 00:29:24,490 --> 00:29:27,090 S3: He just jumps right in there and whispers that in 512 00:29:27,090 --> 00:29:30,690 S3: our ear. Yeah. That's right. You are not enough. You're 513 00:29:30,690 --> 00:29:34,970 S3: not enough. You are messed up. So yeah, that's what's 514 00:29:34,970 --> 00:29:37,090 S3: going on over and over and over in our in 515 00:29:37,130 --> 00:29:38,770 S3: our minds. Yeah. 516 00:29:38,810 --> 00:29:41,730 S1: Or the last one was I'm a failure. And I 517 00:29:41,730 --> 00:29:44,330 S1: go back to the I go back to the baseball analogy, 518 00:29:44,370 --> 00:29:48,690 S1: you know, the, the Toronto Blue Jays get all the 519 00:29:48,690 --> 00:29:51,650 S1: way to game seven. And, you know, they lose that. So, 520 00:29:51,690 --> 00:29:54,290 S1: you know, the whole season's a failure. No no it's 521 00:29:54,290 --> 00:29:59,130 S1: not no no no no that yeah. You lost that game. 522 00:29:59,130 --> 00:30:01,930 S1: You didn't win the world champion. But look at what 523 00:30:01,930 --> 00:30:06,290 S1: was accomplished there. And I I understand the frustration of 524 00:30:06,290 --> 00:30:10,370 S1: the team that loses. But if you and I think 525 00:30:10,370 --> 00:30:13,090 S1: a lot of Christians will do the same thing, though, 526 00:30:13,610 --> 00:30:17,530 S1: they'll they'll have bad thoughts or they'll. Here's the other 527 00:30:17,530 --> 00:30:21,470 S1: thing they'll do. They will say, I have forgiven so 528 00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:25,190 S1: and so, and I'm going to wipe that from my memory. 529 00:30:25,190 --> 00:30:27,150 S1: And I'm not going to think of that again because 530 00:30:27,150 --> 00:30:29,990 S1: I've forgiven them. God's forgiven me so much, I'm going 531 00:30:30,030 --> 00:30:31,790 S1: to forgive them. They get up the next day or 532 00:30:31,790 --> 00:30:34,910 S1: they see something, they drive by wherever that person works 533 00:30:34,910 --> 00:30:39,190 S1: or lives. And it's like those feelings come back and 534 00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:41,950 S1: they think, oh, I'm a failure. I've not forgotten. I 535 00:30:41,950 --> 00:30:45,550 S1: really haven't forgiven them because, look, I'm bringing that back up. 536 00:30:45,750 --> 00:30:47,830 S1: JP what do you say to a person who feels 537 00:30:47,830 --> 00:30:48,350 S1: that way? 538 00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:53,630 S2: Yeah, well, forgive does not necessarily mean forget. And I 539 00:30:53,630 --> 00:30:55,990 S2: think that's some of the one of the first, um, 540 00:30:56,030 --> 00:30:59,230 S2: misunderstandings to forgive someone doesn't mean to forget it didn't 541 00:30:59,230 --> 00:31:03,710 S2: happen to forgive someone doesn't even mean that you can't get, um, 542 00:31:03,750 --> 00:31:08,750 S2: justice for what took place. I think many people wrestle 543 00:31:08,750 --> 00:31:13,790 S2: when they're carrying guilt and shame. That comes with forgiveness. 544 00:31:14,270 --> 00:31:17,230 S2: And I think if we're, um, we mentioned negative self-talk 545 00:31:17,230 --> 00:31:19,739 S2: in our thoughts. Um, one, I think we need to 546 00:31:19,740 --> 00:31:23,300 S2: be gracious to ourselves when we say that we are remembering, 547 00:31:23,780 --> 00:31:25,980 S2: because it doesn't necessarily mean they didn't forgive. But I 548 00:31:25,980 --> 00:31:30,740 S2: have memory to remember. Um, second Corinthians tells us that 549 00:31:30,740 --> 00:31:35,740 S2: any argument that tries to puff itself up against knowledge 550 00:31:35,740 --> 00:31:39,420 S2: of God must be demolished into obedience to Christ. And 551 00:31:39,420 --> 00:31:42,940 S2: I think that's where finding freedom in Jesus is so liberating. 552 00:31:42,940 --> 00:31:46,500 S2: Because if I'm wrestling with thoughts of forgiveness, guilt, or shame, 553 00:31:46,980 --> 00:31:49,940 S2: I have to remember what God's Word says. So I 554 00:31:49,940 --> 00:31:53,100 S2: can't allow this thought to to stay in my mind. 555 00:31:53,140 --> 00:31:55,300 S2: I have to take it captive and demolish it into 556 00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:57,580 S2: obedience to Christ. So what does God's Word say about 557 00:31:57,580 --> 00:32:00,459 S2: forgiving me, being forgiven, and me forgiving? And then what 558 00:32:00,460 --> 00:32:02,980 S2: do I do with the weight of the baggage or 559 00:32:02,980 --> 00:32:06,500 S2: shame that comes with that? And many times it's easy 560 00:32:06,500 --> 00:32:09,620 S2: for me to forgive someone. Chris. It's sometimes I realize 561 00:32:09,620 --> 00:32:13,820 S2: that it's easier for me to accept, accept forgiveness, or 562 00:32:13,820 --> 00:32:17,620 S2: forgive someone. But the biggest wrestler I've noticed over time 563 00:32:17,940 --> 00:32:22,209 S2: is forgiving myself. I don't mind forgiving you, Chris. No problem. 564 00:32:22,210 --> 00:32:25,330 S2: What you did, I forgive you. Many of us wrestle 565 00:32:25,330 --> 00:32:29,010 S2: with actually forgiving ourselves because we're saying this. How could 566 00:32:29,010 --> 00:32:32,490 S2: I have done that? And then, does God really forgive 567 00:32:32,490 --> 00:32:36,370 S2: me for what I just did? Not noticing. I think 568 00:32:36,410 --> 00:32:38,490 S2: it's first John one nine says, if we confess our sins, 569 00:32:38,490 --> 00:32:42,610 S2: God is faithful and just to forgive us, to forgive 570 00:32:42,610 --> 00:32:47,010 S2: us and cleanse us. There's forgiving us and there's cleansing 571 00:32:47,010 --> 00:32:49,090 S2: us of the guilt and the shame. And then the 572 00:32:49,090 --> 00:32:52,530 S2: next words are for all unrighteousness. Now, I know some 573 00:32:52,530 --> 00:32:55,570 S2: of you studied Hebrew and Greek. Well, all means all. 574 00:32:56,330 --> 00:33:00,250 S2: So God, God forgives us for all unrighteousness. And I 575 00:33:00,250 --> 00:33:02,970 S2: think that is the wrestle, Chris is that. Does God 576 00:33:02,970 --> 00:33:05,330 S2: really forgive all? The answer is yes. He forgives and 577 00:33:05,330 --> 00:33:08,770 S2: he cleanses the guilt, the shame that comes with it. 578 00:33:08,770 --> 00:33:10,530 S2: That's why it's important for us to know the difference 579 00:33:10,530 --> 00:33:17,670 S2: between being free, being forgiven, and being shame free. Very 580 00:33:17,670 --> 00:33:20,630 S2: important to understand. Matt does it. When we did this 581 00:33:20,630 --> 00:33:23,510 S2: study on what it means to be free, Matt. I mean, 582 00:33:23,550 --> 00:33:25,430 S2: it blew his mind when Matt. And if he doesn't 583 00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:28,510 S2: mind sharing what he saw from the beginning of the 584 00:33:28,510 --> 00:33:31,350 S2: garden of Adam and Eve, what free actually really meant, 585 00:33:31,750 --> 00:33:35,470 S2: because it's liberating and revelatory when you see what took 586 00:33:35,470 --> 00:33:38,630 S2: place in the garden in Genesis chapters one, two, and three, 587 00:33:38,870 --> 00:33:41,950 S2: how God says we're free, but there's something God does 588 00:33:41,950 --> 00:33:43,710 S2: with our freedom. Matt, do you mind sharing that? 589 00:33:44,270 --> 00:33:48,350 S3: Yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, I teach the Gospel 590 00:33:48,350 --> 00:33:51,350 S3: of John every semester, and Gospel of John is big 591 00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:54,550 S3: on the word freedom. So I thought I pretty much 592 00:33:54,590 --> 00:33:57,350 S3: understood what it means. I know what it doesn't mean. 593 00:33:57,390 --> 00:33:59,709 S3: I mean, the world tells us we're free to do 594 00:33:59,750 --> 00:34:02,950 S3: whatever we want, whatever you want. And I know that's 595 00:34:02,950 --> 00:34:06,190 S3: not what it means. But as I looked at, we 596 00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:08,990 S3: actually looked at every use in the Bible of every 597 00:34:08,989 --> 00:34:12,270 S3: one of these 21 words. That's how we started our studies. 598 00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:18,500 S3: And when you go back to Genesis, God says you're free. Okay. 599 00:34:18,540 --> 00:34:22,220 S3: But he says you can't eat from this one tree. 600 00:34:22,940 --> 00:34:27,820 S3: So from the very beginning, the word freedom has stipulations. 601 00:34:27,820 --> 00:34:32,620 S3: It has limits. And why did God put stipulations and 602 00:34:32,620 --> 00:34:36,379 S3: limits on Adam and Eve? Because he knew what was 603 00:34:36,380 --> 00:34:39,219 S3: good for him. He knew that if they were going 604 00:34:39,260 --> 00:34:43,100 S3: to thrive and flourish, they can't eat from that other tree. 605 00:34:44,060 --> 00:34:47,899 S3: And so when we say I'm free, I actually have 606 00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:52,940 S3: my students debate. Take your favorite secular university and now 607 00:34:52,940 --> 00:34:56,380 S3: let's debate them as Christians. What's free mean? Free to 608 00:34:56,420 --> 00:34:58,580 S3: do whatever I want. Well, here's what we think. Free 609 00:34:58,620 --> 00:35:02,420 S3: means you're free from sin. Well, they don't believe in sin, 610 00:35:02,420 --> 00:35:06,660 S3: so we got to start there. We're free from sin 611 00:35:07,180 --> 00:35:10,500 S3: and death. And we're free to live as we were 612 00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:15,530 S3: created to live. And the only way that that definition 613 00:35:15,530 --> 00:35:20,250 S3: works is if we find true freedom. We really thrive 614 00:35:20,250 --> 00:35:23,009 S3: and flourish when we live the way God created us 615 00:35:23,010 --> 00:35:25,650 S3: to live. I mean, we give the example in the 616 00:35:25,650 --> 00:35:28,969 S3: book of a dolphin. Can you imagine walking down the 617 00:35:28,969 --> 00:35:32,770 S3: sidewalk one day and a dolphin walks next to you? Well, 618 00:35:32,810 --> 00:35:36,009 S3: of course not, right? Dolphins were made to swim in 619 00:35:36,010 --> 00:35:40,370 S3: the ocean and we were made to live according to 620 00:35:40,410 --> 00:35:45,450 S3: God's will. And when we live that way, we find 621 00:35:45,570 --> 00:35:51,490 S3: real freedom. Real joy, real peace. And that, for me, 622 00:35:51,489 --> 00:35:56,930 S3: was completely liberating. I'm not missing out when I don't 623 00:35:56,930 --> 00:36:01,850 S3: do these other things. I'm actually finding God's best in 624 00:36:01,850 --> 00:36:05,969 S3: my life. I'm a huge soccer fan. I love Barcelona 625 00:36:06,010 --> 00:36:09,450 S3: soccer because we lived in Barcelona for six years and 626 00:36:09,450 --> 00:36:14,630 S3: one of their famous defenders, Gerard Piqué, He said this 627 00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:17,870 S3: and it was after he left Shakira, the famous singer. 628 00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:22,470 S3: He said, the day I die, I will look back 629 00:36:22,469 --> 00:36:27,470 S3: and hope that I have always done what I wanted. Mhm. 630 00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:31,310 S3: And I read that quote and I went, oh my gosh. PK, 631 00:36:32,150 --> 00:36:36,630 S3: you've left your your wife and your two kids and 632 00:36:36,630 --> 00:36:40,310 S3: all you care about is to do what you wanted. 633 00:36:40,310 --> 00:36:46,910 S3: What about them? So yeah, the world's definition really messes 634 00:36:46,910 --> 00:36:49,590 S3: us up on on freedom. Yes. 635 00:36:50,430 --> 00:36:55,510 S1: Why is it so hard to give ourselves to receive 636 00:36:55,510 --> 00:36:58,189 S1: the grace for ourselves? Because I'm I'm kind of stuck 637 00:36:58,190 --> 00:37:00,950 S1: on that. That's one of the things your students said 638 00:37:00,950 --> 00:37:05,510 S1: after they embraced their true identity. They went through what 639 00:37:05,510 --> 00:37:08,270 S1: we're talking about here today. The first one said, I 640 00:37:08,310 --> 00:37:11,310 S1: am able to give myself more grace. So I want 641 00:37:11,350 --> 00:37:14,219 S1: to talk about that in our last segment. And if 642 00:37:14,219 --> 00:37:17,779 S1: you go to the website, Chris fabry.org, you'll see the 643 00:37:17,780 --> 00:37:22,100 S1: book Finding Freedom in Jesus the 21 Attributes of Your 644 00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:25,299 S1: Identity in Christ. Were just scratching the surface here with 645 00:37:25,300 --> 00:37:29,419 S1: doctor J. P foster and Doctor Matt Williams. Doctor Chris 646 00:37:29,460 --> 00:37:33,339 S1: Fabry live.org. Click through right there and you'll see that 647 00:37:33,340 --> 00:37:50,859 S1: featured resource Finding Freedom in Jesus more straight ahead. What 648 00:37:50,860 --> 00:37:54,060 S1: are the 21 attributes of your identity in Christ? If 649 00:37:54,100 --> 00:37:57,100 S1: you discover these not just in your head, but move 650 00:37:57,100 --> 00:38:00,980 S1: them into your heart, life's going to be different. Finding 651 00:38:01,020 --> 00:38:04,980 S1: freedom in Jesus. But after JP Foster and Doctor Matt 652 00:38:04,980 --> 00:38:09,660 S1: Williams is our featured resource at Chris live.org. I have 653 00:38:09,660 --> 00:38:12,649 S1: so many questions I have. So because one of you 654 00:38:12,650 --> 00:38:16,890 S1: saw a conversation you had talking about anxiety and what 655 00:38:16,930 --> 00:38:21,210 S1: hope does to the anxiety. Um, the whole idea of 656 00:38:21,210 --> 00:38:24,050 S1: God couldn't love you more than he does right now. 657 00:38:24,170 --> 00:38:26,649 S1: It's like that in a lot of ways. To me, 658 00:38:26,650 --> 00:38:29,089 S1: that doesn't compute. He's got to love me more because 659 00:38:29,090 --> 00:38:32,049 S1: I'm going to do something to impress him. Uh, you 660 00:38:32,090 --> 00:38:35,450 S1: are both married to therapists. I wanted to talk about that. 661 00:38:35,810 --> 00:38:39,490 S1: The whole idea of process, we go toward the outcome 662 00:38:39,530 --> 00:38:42,770 S1: of things and we don't go through the process, but 663 00:38:42,770 --> 00:38:44,650 S1: we got to go through the process to get to 664 00:38:44,690 --> 00:38:47,730 S1: where God wants. I had all these questions, but I 665 00:38:47,770 --> 00:38:52,850 S1: am stuck on that forgiving ourselves. Why it's so hard 666 00:38:52,850 --> 00:38:57,730 S1: to give grace to ourselves and the way that I 667 00:38:57,770 --> 00:39:01,330 S1: have kind of worked that out in my own life is, uh, 668 00:39:01,330 --> 00:39:03,489 S1: because a lot of people have a problem. Even with that, 669 00:39:03,489 --> 00:39:06,609 S1: you can't forgive yourself. Only God can forgive, you know, 670 00:39:06,650 --> 00:39:09,009 S1: those kind of things. The way I've worked it out 671 00:39:09,110 --> 00:39:13,230 S1: is I want to believe what God says about me 672 00:39:13,630 --> 00:39:17,549 S1: rather than how I feel or what I think. I'm 673 00:39:17,550 --> 00:39:21,029 S1: going to agree with God about whatever it is. So 674 00:39:21,030 --> 00:39:25,029 S1: that's the way that I process the whole grace to 675 00:39:25,070 --> 00:39:28,350 S1: ourselves and forgiving ourselves. JP is that close to what 676 00:39:28,350 --> 00:39:28,950 S1: you think? 677 00:39:29,710 --> 00:39:32,350 S2: That's, that's literally how I process it myself. Yes, that's 678 00:39:32,350 --> 00:39:35,150 S2: how I process it. But Chris, there's a, there's a bigger, 679 00:39:35,150 --> 00:39:37,750 S2: I think when we get to that place of forgiving ourselves, 680 00:39:38,030 --> 00:39:41,230 S2: it's we're, we're saying we're not using the word shame, 681 00:39:41,230 --> 00:39:45,510 S2: but I, I, that's what I'm noticing. I had a student, um, 682 00:39:45,630 --> 00:39:48,270 S2: mentioned to me, I don't feel comfortable. I don't know 683 00:39:48,270 --> 00:39:51,069 S2: if I'm, if I'm supposed to be here. And when 684 00:39:51,070 --> 00:39:55,190 S2: I began to unpack what the student was experiencing, they 685 00:39:55,190 --> 00:40:00,470 S2: were actually wrestling with the shame and guilt of their 686 00:40:00,469 --> 00:40:06,029 S2: past and their present. And if you go back to Genesis, um, 687 00:40:06,030 --> 00:40:09,020 S2: Matt just described what it looks like to be free. 688 00:40:09,260 --> 00:40:11,739 S2: Freedom came with boundaries. You're free, you're free to eat 689 00:40:11,739 --> 00:40:14,379 S2: of anything but. But not this. The tree of knowledge 690 00:40:14,380 --> 00:40:17,020 S2: of good and evil. So freedom did we have free will. 691 00:40:17,300 --> 00:40:20,460 S2: Freedom also came with boundaries. As a parent, I love 692 00:40:20,460 --> 00:40:24,259 S2: my children and they do have free will. But I've 693 00:40:24,260 --> 00:40:27,259 S2: also created boundaries in how I'm raising them and how 694 00:40:27,540 --> 00:40:30,819 S2: they boundaries to protect them. And so that that is 695 00:40:30,820 --> 00:40:34,900 S2: something that we can see biblically with Adam and Eve. 696 00:40:34,940 --> 00:40:38,140 S2: If you notice when they actually do rebel and they 697 00:40:38,140 --> 00:40:41,380 S2: actually do, um, are disobedient and they eat from the 698 00:40:41,380 --> 00:40:42,980 S2: tree of knowledge of good and evil, what do they do? 699 00:40:42,980 --> 00:40:48,020 S2: The first thing they do is hide. They hide. They, they, 700 00:40:48,140 --> 00:40:51,020 S2: they hide. They cover themselves because they realized that they 701 00:40:51,020 --> 00:40:55,100 S2: were naked. And when God comes and asks them, where 702 00:40:55,100 --> 00:40:58,219 S2: are you? They said we were hiding because we were naked. 703 00:40:58,940 --> 00:41:03,020 S2: There's an element of shame in that moment where they're 704 00:41:03,020 --> 00:41:07,090 S2: hiding because they. They were naked. And if you continue 705 00:41:07,090 --> 00:41:12,130 S2: reading Genesis chapter three, even though there were consequences for 706 00:41:12,130 --> 00:41:18,930 S2: their disobedience, God covers them. The them hiding didn't fix it. 707 00:41:19,130 --> 00:41:23,690 S2: Them covering themselves with leaves didn't fix it. God covers them. 708 00:41:24,130 --> 00:41:26,770 S2: The scripture says, with the skin of an animal, God 709 00:41:26,770 --> 00:41:29,689 S2: covers them. If you. That's old Testament. If you take 710 00:41:29,690 --> 00:41:31,489 S2: it to the. If you go to the New Testament, 711 00:41:32,210 --> 00:41:35,410 S2: Jesus's first miracle. I hate to break this to you guys. 712 00:41:35,450 --> 00:41:37,890 S2: It wasn't about keeping the party going and drinking wine. 713 00:41:39,730 --> 00:41:44,770 S2: Jesus's first miracle. He literally removes the shame from the 714 00:41:44,770 --> 00:41:48,690 S2: couple getting marriage culturally. You would have a wedding and 715 00:41:48,969 --> 00:41:52,250 S2: the whole town would be at the wedding. And in 716 00:41:52,250 --> 00:41:55,610 S2: an honor and shame culture to run out of food, 717 00:41:55,650 --> 00:41:58,610 S2: to run out of wine. It was not hospitable. So 718 00:41:58,810 --> 00:42:01,850 S2: there's a hospitality level that must be upkept. And if 719 00:42:01,890 --> 00:42:04,850 S2: you were to run out of food or wine when 720 00:42:04,850 --> 00:42:06,960 S2: you had guests. It was a shameful act, so they 721 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,040 S2: would have been shamed. They didn't have a list of 722 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:13,040 S2: 75 to 150 people attending their wedding. The whole village 723 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,479 S2: was at their wedding. And the mother of Jesus comes 724 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,600 S2: and says, hey, we're running out of wine. And Jesus 725 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,680 S2: turning the water into wine, he he's covering this. This 726 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,640 S2: couple is about to be shamed. They're going to start 727 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,720 S2: off their marriage shamed and isolated from everyone in the community, 728 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,719 S2: because you had to fight to get Your Honor back 729 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,759 S2: in the community. What happens? Jesus gets the jars that 730 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,360 S2: were used for ceremonial washing, and he uses that water 731 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,200 S2: and he turns it into wine. And the master of 732 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,040 S2: the banquet comes and tastes it. And he says, most 733 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,800 S2: people bring out, I'm going to translate this, the cheap 734 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:50,520 S2: wine last. You've brought the best. What is what is 735 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,680 S2: Scripture revealing to us that Jesus removed their shame. They 736 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,080 S2: should have been shamed for running out of wine. Jesus 737 00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,440 S2: puts them in a position of honor. Now the whole 738 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,520 S2: town's not going back, saying they've run out of wine. They. 739 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:07,180 S2: This couple is shamed in our village or community. Jesus 740 00:43:07,180 --> 00:43:09,060 S2: put them in a place of honor. Everyone now is 741 00:43:09,060 --> 00:43:13,819 S2: going back saying, could you believe how amazing the wine 742 00:43:13,820 --> 00:43:17,219 S2: was that came out last? Because Jesus removes the shame 743 00:43:17,219 --> 00:43:19,859 S2: from this couple, puts them in a position of honor. 744 00:43:19,860 --> 00:43:22,660 S2: And this is Jesus's first miracle recorded miracles. Now we 745 00:43:22,660 --> 00:43:26,100 S2: see a glimpse of what what Jesus is going to do. 746 00:43:26,100 --> 00:43:30,660 S2: Jesus has come to remove the shame from us, from 747 00:43:30,660 --> 00:43:35,259 S2: all humanity if we accept his sacrifice by faith. And 748 00:43:35,260 --> 00:43:37,580 S2: so what I what I have to accept. Back to 749 00:43:37,580 --> 00:43:40,300 S2: what you said, Chris, is I have to. Then even 750 00:43:40,300 --> 00:43:43,140 S2: when I feel or I'm reminded of what I did, 751 00:43:43,140 --> 00:43:46,299 S2: I have to remember what Scripture reveals to us about shame. 752 00:43:46,340 --> 00:43:48,580 S2: God covered shame in the Old Testament of Adam and Eve. 753 00:43:49,380 --> 00:43:53,859 S2: Jesus comes to remove our shame and put us in 754 00:43:53,860 --> 00:43:57,540 S2: a position of honor. And that's been liberating for me. 755 00:43:58,300 --> 00:44:01,900 S2: You know, when we think about sin, Scripture reveals to us, 756 00:44:01,900 --> 00:44:03,810 S2: Paul wrestled with it. He says, the thing I want 757 00:44:03,810 --> 00:44:05,410 S2: to do, I don't do the thing that I'm supposed 758 00:44:05,410 --> 00:44:08,370 S2: to do, I'm not supposed to do is what I do. Why? 759 00:44:08,410 --> 00:44:12,009 S2: Because sin lives in me, he says. Thanks God. Praise God, 760 00:44:12,010 --> 00:44:14,049 S2: or thanks God to the Lord Jesus Christ who's come 761 00:44:14,050 --> 00:44:16,850 S2: to save us. So we see this picture of in 762 00:44:16,850 --> 00:44:18,850 S2: this in this stage. Chris, I mentioned this in the 763 00:44:18,850 --> 00:44:22,930 S2: beginning of progressive sanctification as we're continually being transformed into 764 00:44:22,969 --> 00:44:25,210 S2: the image of Christ until he returns, we're going to 765 00:44:25,210 --> 00:44:28,770 S2: continue to wrestle with sin and temptation. But as believers 766 00:44:28,770 --> 00:44:33,650 S2: in Christ, we should be gaining victory over sin every 767 00:44:33,650 --> 00:44:36,089 S2: single day, moment by moment, over time. 768 00:44:36,130 --> 00:44:39,450 S1: I've never heard that. I've never heard that. Removing the 769 00:44:39,450 --> 00:44:42,290 S1: shame from them, with the with the wine thing that 770 00:44:42,330 --> 00:44:44,130 S1: I'm going to spend the rest of the day thinking 771 00:44:44,130 --> 00:44:47,690 S1: about that. But but here's the the last question then, Matt, 772 00:44:47,730 --> 00:44:51,129 S1: I've got two minutes here. Um, why do we if 773 00:44:51,130 --> 00:44:53,969 S1: that's true, if what he's just said is true, why 774 00:44:53,969 --> 00:44:56,250 S1: do we keep picking that up? Why do we keep 775 00:44:56,770 --> 00:45:01,330 S1: shouldering that shame and that guilt when we don't have to? 776 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:07,240 S3: Yeah, well, we're we're following Adam and Eve's example, right? 777 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,680 S3: We're hiding and thinking that we can do it on 778 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:14,080 S3: our own. Uh, Hebrews 1022 says, draw near to God, 779 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:19,880 S3: having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience. 780 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,560 S3: So we tend to run away. But the movement that 781 00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:27,080 S3: we need to do is to run to Jesus because 782 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,000 S3: he already knows what we've done, right? Yeah. And so 783 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,960 S3: we run to him. We tell the story in the 784 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,520 S3: book about one of my students. She began to pray, 785 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,040 S3: asking the Lord to forgive her of all of her shame. 786 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,160 S3: And she actually visualized in her mind's eye all the 787 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:47,440 S3: sin surrounding her. And here comes Jesus. And he pushes 788 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,440 S3: the sins away one by one. And she finally says 789 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:57,760 S3: to him, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. And he says, 790 00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,939 S3: I forgive you. That's the shame free life that we're 791 00:46:01,940 --> 00:46:02,740 S3: all looking for. 792 00:46:03,860 --> 00:46:06,899 S1: Oh, let that grab Ahold of your heart today. That 793 00:46:06,900 --> 00:46:10,140 S1: you are loved. That you are known. You're beautiful. You're 794 00:46:10,140 --> 00:46:13,900 S1: an image bearer. Jesus came to set you free from shame. 795 00:46:13,900 --> 00:46:20,620 S1: He rescued you and forgave you. He gave you his righteousness, redemption, reconciliation. 796 00:46:20,620 --> 00:46:24,500 S1: And there's more. In finding freedom in Jesus, the 21 797 00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:28,140 S1: attributes of Your Identity in Christ. Now you know why 798 00:46:28,140 --> 00:46:31,379 S1: I wanted to re-air this program today, and I hope 799 00:46:31,380 --> 00:46:35,100 S1: it has encouraged you and filled you with more hope 800 00:46:35,100 --> 00:46:38,020 S1: than you can contain, so that you would go out 801 00:46:38,020 --> 00:46:41,219 S1: and spread the love of God to others. Thank you 802 00:46:41,219 --> 00:46:44,660 S1: for listening. Chris Fabry lives production of Moody Radio, a 803 00:46:44,660 --> 00:46:46,940 S1: Ministry of Moody Bible Institute.