1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,400 S1: Hi friends, this is Janet Parshall. Thanks so much for 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,160 S1: downloading this podcast, and I hope you hear something that 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,560 S1: will really encourage and edify you. But before you start 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,400 S1: to listen, let me take a moment of your time 5 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,399 S1: and tell you about this month's truth tool. It's called 6 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,640 S1: secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. And 7 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,360 S1: it follows that very often, whatever our relationship is like 8 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,000 S1: with authority figures, predominantly our parents, we somehow transferred to 9 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,000 S1: how we see God. So if we have an angry parent, 10 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,319 S1: he's an angry God. If it's a distant parent, he's 11 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,520 S1: a God who's not there. I think it's important we 12 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,680 S1: understand who God really is. And in this wonderful book 13 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,760 S1: called secure, you're going to discover the character of God 14 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,120 S1: and how deeply in love God is with you. It's 15 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:38,839 S1: our truth tool. Our truth tools are my way of 16 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,680 S1: saying thank you because we are listener supported radio. So 17 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,600 S1: if you'd like a copy of secure, just call eight 7758. 18 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,760 S1: That's eight 7758. Give a gift of any amount. My 19 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,840 S1: way of saying thank you for supporting the program is 20 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,000 S1: I'll send you a copy of secure. You can also 21 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,560 S1: do this online at in the Market with Janet. Scroll 22 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,720 S1: to the bottom of the page. There's the cover of 23 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,270 S1: the book secure. Click on the photo. Go right on through. 24 00:01:02,310 --> 00:01:04,510 S1: Make your donation and we'll send you a copy again 25 00:01:04,510 --> 00:01:07,509 S1: of secure. If you want to consider becoming a partial partner, 26 00:01:07,510 --> 00:01:10,509 S1: that is the ever increasing circle of friends who give 27 00:01:10,510 --> 00:01:13,030 S1: every single month at a level of their own choosing. 28 00:01:13,030 --> 00:01:15,229 S1: And my way of saying thank you is this you 29 00:01:15,230 --> 00:01:17,509 S1: always get the truth tool for each and every month. 30 00:01:17,510 --> 00:01:20,110 S1: And in addition to that, you get a weekly newsletter 31 00:01:20,110 --> 00:01:22,470 S1: that includes some of my writing and a little audio 32 00:01:22,470 --> 00:01:25,070 S1: piece just for my partial partners. So either way, thank 33 00:01:25,069 --> 00:01:28,670 S1: you in advance for prayerfully considering the opportunity to financially 34 00:01:28,670 --> 00:01:31,310 S1: support in the market with Janet partial and keeping it 35 00:01:31,310 --> 00:01:33,350 S1: on the air now, I hope you hear something that 36 00:01:33,350 --> 00:01:36,149 S1: will encourage you to get out and influence and occupy 37 00:01:36,270 --> 00:01:37,830 S1: in the marketplace of ideas. 38 00:01:40,310 --> 00:01:41,830 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 39 00:01:42,110 --> 00:01:44,350 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 40 00:01:44,510 --> 00:01:46,589 S4: Americans worshiping government over God. 41 00:01:46,910 --> 00:01:47,790 S3: Extremely rare. 42 00:01:47,830 --> 00:01:48,350 S1: Safety. 43 00:01:48,350 --> 00:01:49,390 S3: Move by a major. 44 00:01:49,430 --> 00:01:52,310 S4: 17 years. The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated. 45 00:01:52,310 --> 00:02:08,620 S3: This is not. Hi, friends. 46 00:02:08,620 --> 00:02:11,100 S1: Welcome to In the Market with Janet. Partial. Thank you 47 00:02:11,100 --> 00:02:14,060 S1: so very much for joining me this hour. Okay. Take 48 00:02:14,060 --> 00:02:16,340 S1: out your thinking cap, because this hour is designed to 49 00:02:16,380 --> 00:02:19,460 S1: help you think critically and biblically. And yet again, I 50 00:02:19,460 --> 00:02:21,540 S1: will tell you that is not a multiple choice test. 51 00:02:21,860 --> 00:02:24,460 S1: It is not an either or. It is a both end. 52 00:02:24,500 --> 00:02:26,859 S1: We come to faith in Jesus Christ. And what does 53 00:02:26,860 --> 00:02:29,820 S1: the word tell us? Not only is our heart transformed, 54 00:02:29,820 --> 00:02:32,620 S1: but our mind is renewed. And so as we get 55 00:02:32,660 --> 00:02:35,100 S1: off that diet of milk and we move to a 56 00:02:35,100 --> 00:02:37,420 S1: diet of meat, and we get some spiritual heft on 57 00:02:37,419 --> 00:02:40,140 S1: our bones, and we start growing up in him, as 58 00:02:40,139 --> 00:02:43,100 S1: Paul admonishes us to do on a regular basis, we 59 00:02:43,100 --> 00:02:45,660 S1: start to think differently. We start to see the world 60 00:02:45,660 --> 00:02:48,820 S1: around us differently and honestly forget the world right now. 61 00:02:48,820 --> 00:02:51,739 S1: The world does what the world does without Jesus. I 62 00:02:51,740 --> 00:02:54,100 S1: pray for them. I want the lost to be saved. 63 00:02:54,100 --> 00:02:57,410 S1: My concern is not with the world. That's what happens 64 00:02:57,410 --> 00:03:00,970 S1: without Jesus. I'm much more concerned about the church where 65 00:03:00,970 --> 00:03:03,810 S1: we are taken captive. Book of Colossians through vain and 66 00:03:03,810 --> 00:03:07,810 S1: hollow philosophies and crafted vanities, as the Bible calls them 67 00:03:07,810 --> 00:03:10,609 S1: on a regular basis. That's because how many of us 68 00:03:10,610 --> 00:03:14,730 S1: can say definitively, without blush, embarrassment, or hesitation, that we 69 00:03:14,730 --> 00:03:18,010 S1: have a bedrock, solid biblical worldview? You hear me? Call 70 00:03:18,010 --> 00:03:21,130 S1: it a biblical perspective on a regular basis. In other words, 71 00:03:21,130 --> 00:03:23,250 S1: you take out those glasses, you put them on through 72 00:03:23,250 --> 00:03:25,930 S1: the lens of Scripture. You view the world around you, 73 00:03:25,930 --> 00:03:28,649 S1: and when you do, it is amazing how things come 74 00:03:28,650 --> 00:03:31,010 S1: into focus. I'll give you a classic example. So we 75 00:03:31,010 --> 00:03:33,609 S1: have I'm in Washington DC, so you can imagine I've 76 00:03:33,610 --> 00:03:36,650 S1: heard just about every idea that's being posited in the 77 00:03:36,650 --> 00:03:39,410 S1: marketplace of ideas. And we hear a lot of conversation 78 00:03:39,410 --> 00:03:42,570 S1: about social justice. And it sounds good, particularly if God 79 00:03:42,610 --> 00:03:46,210 S1: hardwired you to be a mercy giver or an empath 80 00:03:46,210 --> 00:03:49,050 S1: or somebody who really is upset when you see somebody 81 00:03:49,050 --> 00:03:52,090 S1: who's hurting or you're feeling that somehow they're not being 82 00:03:52,130 --> 00:03:55,170 S1: treated appropriately. And your heart breaks for them and you 83 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,880 S1: think I want real justice for that person? I don't 84 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,280 S1: think that's a bad thing. I think that's a hallmark 85 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,320 S1: of a heart that wants to be like Jesus. How 86 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,440 S1: many times in the scriptures do we read and he 87 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,080 S1: had compassion on them? That compassion oftentimes comes from saying, 88 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,640 S1: I want justice for this individual, but is there appealing 89 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,200 S1: to your critical mind? Is there a distinction between biblical 90 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,520 S1: and social justice? I think there is. And so does 91 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:20,960 S1: our guest. And I want to introduce her to you, 92 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,760 S1: because I think this is going to be a fabulous conversation. 93 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,160 S1: We get to spend the hour with Doctor Christina Crenshaw. 94 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,799 S1: She has had 20 years of experience as a professor, 95 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,440 S1: a researcher, a writer and a speaker. She is an 96 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,640 S1: assistant professor at Arizona Christian University and a fellow at 97 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,320 S1: their Cultural Research center. How many times do we talk 98 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,640 S1: to Doctor George Barna? How many times do I put 99 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,320 S1: out his worldview inventory? Because I tell you, that is 100 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,040 S1: information for the church, not the world, but to help 101 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,479 S1: us prepare for our transcultural missionary experience. You got to 102 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,880 S1: know what our tribe thinks and believes. Note to file 103 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,420 S1: we're in trouble. We'll get into that. She has held 104 00:04:56,420 --> 00:05:00,740 S1: faculty and leadership positions at California Baptist University, Baylor University, 105 00:05:01,380 --> 00:05:05,860 S1: Dallas Theological Seminary, and Southwestern Seminary, and she has written 106 00:05:05,860 --> 00:05:10,500 S1: a brand new book called Redeeming Justice Reclaiming God's Vision 107 00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:13,900 S1: for Doing Good in the world. Love people who Think 108 00:05:13,900 --> 00:05:16,740 S1: like this. Christina. The Warmest of Welcomes I have so 109 00:05:16,740 --> 00:05:19,659 S1: been looking forward to this conversation, because I think it's 110 00:05:19,660 --> 00:05:22,180 S1: imperative our brothers and sisters understand that there is a 111 00:05:22,180 --> 00:05:26,260 S1: distinction between biblical justice and social justice, and how not 112 00:05:26,260 --> 00:05:29,740 S1: to get swept up in bad ideas that use marketable 113 00:05:29,740 --> 00:05:32,380 S1: terms but have vacuous meanings. So I got to start 114 00:05:32,380 --> 00:05:36,059 S1: with you personally. This is a wonderfully written book, and 115 00:05:36,060 --> 00:05:39,860 S1: in your work of defending the faith and teaching about worldview, 116 00:05:40,420 --> 00:05:42,500 S1: that has to come from a place of passion in 117 00:05:42,500 --> 00:05:44,820 S1: your own heart. How did that journey start with you? 118 00:05:45,700 --> 00:05:47,580 S5: Oh well, thank you, Janet, for asking and thank you 119 00:05:47,580 --> 00:05:50,140 S5: for that intro. That is a wonderful intro. I've done 120 00:05:50,420 --> 00:05:53,890 S5: some media press already and no one has done the 121 00:05:53,890 --> 00:05:56,730 S5: intro justice like you did Janet. So I want to 122 00:05:56,730 --> 00:05:59,930 S5: thank you for that. You know, this really is a 123 00:05:59,930 --> 00:06:02,409 S5: it's a personal book that was written. I would say 124 00:06:02,450 --> 00:06:05,810 S5: it's been at least 15 years in the making, as 125 00:06:05,810 --> 00:06:08,730 S5: the Lord has really primed my heart for what it 126 00:06:08,730 --> 00:06:11,650 S5: looks like for people to, as you talked about, put 127 00:06:11,650 --> 00:06:13,969 S5: on a Christian worldview to put on a biblical worldview 128 00:06:13,970 --> 00:06:16,810 S5: and a Christian lens and to do good in the world. 129 00:06:17,010 --> 00:06:22,210 S5: I started, um, doing anti-trafficking work with the A21 campaign. 130 00:06:22,210 --> 00:06:25,650 S5: If you're familiar with Christine, Caine helped her write some 131 00:06:25,650 --> 00:06:29,050 S5: curriculum for high school students. And then I realized, wow, 132 00:06:29,089 --> 00:06:32,410 S5: there is a whole generation of young people who are 133 00:06:32,410 --> 00:06:36,610 S5: passionate about justice, but they really don't understand God's heart 134 00:06:36,610 --> 00:06:39,970 S5: for it. And that's particularly grievous when it's the church. 135 00:06:40,250 --> 00:06:43,250 S5: And then I had my own personal example. I ended 136 00:06:43,250 --> 00:06:46,170 S5: up leaving, um, a university that I write about in 137 00:06:46,170 --> 00:06:51,200 S5: the book because I stood up against Biden redefining title nine, 138 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,040 S5: and I realized when I did that that I was 139 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,480 S5: kind of alone in this Christian university. There were certainly 140 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,120 S5: people who came to my side and to my defense. 141 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,800 S5: But I realized there was also this percentage, a small percentage, 142 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,200 S5: but small enough to to be allowed to disagreed with me, 143 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,760 S5: who thought males could be males if they wanted to, 144 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:13,760 S5: or males could be females if they wanted to, and 145 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,040 S5: to occupy female spaces. And so it was quite disorienting. 146 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,360 S5: So I went back and I took some time and 147 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,760 S5: I said, okay, what is going on in the world 148 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,640 S5: and particularly what is going on in the church? And 149 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,480 S5: so this is really my call to the church. Hey guys, 150 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,040 S5: we have a blueprint, we have a framework, and we 151 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,120 S5: do not have to use the world's standard for justice 152 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,320 S5: because God gives us one. So that is how the 153 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,400 S5: book was conceived and then written. 154 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,760 S1: Amen and Amen. Let me go back to your passion, 155 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,200 S1: your commitment, and your courage, quite honestly, and taking a 156 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,030 S1: stand for title nine. And maybe and I'm going to 157 00:07:51,030 --> 00:07:52,910 S1: let my own personal bias show in this. My daughter 158 00:07:52,910 --> 00:07:55,950 S1: works for an organization called Defending Ed. She's the vice 159 00:07:55,950 --> 00:07:58,790 S1: president and senior legal counsel there, and she's been doing 160 00:07:58,830 --> 00:08:01,790 S1: an onerous amount of work on title nine. I've sat 161 00:08:01,830 --> 00:08:04,710 S1: here in the peanut gallery and watched it here in Washington, D.C., 162 00:08:04,750 --> 00:08:06,710 S1: where people who want to sit on the United States 163 00:08:06,710 --> 00:08:10,070 S1: Supreme Court or who testify before Congress when asked a 164 00:08:10,070 --> 00:08:14,110 S1: simple question, who is a woman? Cannot be answered. I mean, 165 00:08:14,150 --> 00:08:16,230 S1: and what I always tell my friends is that, you know, 166 00:08:16,270 --> 00:08:19,110 S1: that might sound political. It's wearing the robe of a legislature, 167 00:08:19,110 --> 00:08:20,870 S1: or it puts on the garment of a judge. But 168 00:08:20,870 --> 00:08:24,310 S1: in reality, it's God's truth in the dock when he declares, 169 00:08:24,310 --> 00:08:27,550 S1: male and female, I have made them both. We're no 170 00:08:27,550 --> 00:08:30,590 S1: longer arguing a, quote, political issue or an amendment like 171 00:08:30,630 --> 00:08:33,709 S1: title nine. What we're talking about is God's truth, and 172 00:08:33,710 --> 00:08:35,830 S1: whether or not there is a distinction between the two 173 00:08:35,830 --> 00:08:38,790 S1: and whether or not in the governance that God has created, 174 00:08:38,790 --> 00:08:41,550 S1: are we allowing bias against someone because they were made 175 00:08:41,550 --> 00:08:44,709 S1: female as opposed to male? So for your taking on that, 176 00:08:44,710 --> 00:08:48,700 S1: that it's tremendous, but it really is mission creep, because 177 00:08:48,700 --> 00:08:51,380 S1: that is a seminal question in the book of Genesis. 178 00:08:51,420 --> 00:08:54,780 S1: Right at the beginning. First institution God creates. We have 179 00:08:54,780 --> 00:08:57,260 S1: this argument now in a postmodern world as to what 180 00:08:57,260 --> 00:09:00,300 S1: constitutes a woman. If you can't answer that question, then 181 00:09:00,300 --> 00:09:04,140 S1: you have fallout transgenderism, which is an ideology, not a diagnosis. 182 00:09:04,179 --> 00:09:07,620 S1: You have this idea that if man feel like being 183 00:09:07,620 --> 00:09:09,860 S1: a woman, they can compete against women and cheat their 184 00:09:09,860 --> 00:09:13,300 S1: way to a medal. So is that really justice? And 185 00:09:13,300 --> 00:09:16,020 S1: that's a perfect example of what Christina has written about 186 00:09:16,020 --> 00:09:20,700 S1: in her stellar book called Redeeming Justice Reclaiming God's Vision 187 00:09:20,700 --> 00:09:22,700 S1: for Doing Good in the world. There is right, there 188 00:09:22,700 --> 00:09:24,940 S1: is wrong. Our mailing address is east of Eden. There's 189 00:09:24,940 --> 00:09:27,700 S1: all kinds of things that are flawed in our world today. 190 00:09:27,860 --> 00:09:32,179 S1: But how do we redefine and redeem justice and do 191 00:09:32,179 --> 00:09:34,059 S1: it in a way that honors God and is biblical? 192 00:09:34,059 --> 00:09:46,300 S1: More after this. How does our view of God get distorted? 193 00:09:46,370 --> 00:09:48,890 S1: Do you struggle with feeling close to God? Well, that's 194 00:09:48,890 --> 00:09:51,610 S1: why I've chosen secure how to have a healthy attachment 195 00:09:51,610 --> 00:09:54,210 S1: to God as this month's truth tool. Discover how to 196 00:09:54,250 --> 00:09:57,130 S1: counter the lies about the truth of God's character. Ask 197 00:09:57,130 --> 00:09:59,330 S1: for your copy of secure. When you give a gift 198 00:09:59,330 --> 00:10:03,410 S1: of any amount in the market, call 877. 58. That's 199 00:10:03,410 --> 00:10:08,490 S1: eight 7758 or go to in the market with Janet Parshall. Oh. 200 00:10:11,090 --> 00:10:14,569 S1: I'm so glad we're having this conversation. Doctor Christina Crenshaw 201 00:10:14,610 --> 00:10:17,170 S1: is with us. She is an assistant professor at Arizona 202 00:10:17,170 --> 00:10:20,250 S1: Christian University. And guess what? She's also a fellow with 203 00:10:20,250 --> 00:10:23,810 S1: their absolutely outstanding Cultural Research center. And she's written a 204 00:10:23,809 --> 00:10:28,490 S1: fabulous book called Redeeming Justice Reclaiming God's Vision for Doing 205 00:10:28,490 --> 00:10:30,370 S1: Good in the world. And we're going to break down 206 00:10:30,370 --> 00:10:32,689 S1: so much of the stuff that makes up this idea 207 00:10:32,690 --> 00:10:35,090 S1: of social justice. And in the end, and I hope 208 00:10:35,090 --> 00:10:36,809 S1: we just give you a sneak peek, because my goal 209 00:10:36,809 --> 00:10:38,170 S1: is to get you to buy the book here. I'm 210 00:10:38,170 --> 00:10:41,010 S1: just going to pique your curiosity with this conversation that 211 00:10:41,010 --> 00:10:43,810 S1: you will discover that there is a distinct difference between 212 00:10:43,809 --> 00:10:47,560 S1: biblical justice and social justice. But this all begins, and 213 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:49,440 S1: this is pretty much where you start the conversation in 214 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,840 S1: the book, Christina, by having a real solid, a bedrock 215 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:56,760 S1: concretized biblical worldview. Talk to me about how one defines 216 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,640 S1: a worldview, what we mean by a biblical worldview. And 217 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,360 S1: if you don't have a biblical worldview, how you're not 218 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,760 S1: going to see this issue in particular the right way. 219 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,800 S5: Yeah. Well, Janet, you did a wonderful job in the beginning, 220 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,320 S5: talking about how we're all looking at life through a lens, 221 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,760 S5: and you encourage the listeners to put on a biblical lens. 222 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,440 S5: And really, if I were to, you know, get to 223 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:22,560 S5: the nuts and bolts. And I explain in the book, 224 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,040 S5: I actually use an example from when I was an 225 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,240 S5: undergrad at Texas A&M University, and I'm sitting in this 226 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,640 S5: lecture hall of about 300 people, and I'm towards the back, 227 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,800 S5: and I actually cannot see the PowerPoint. And I start 228 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,120 S5: looking around, and I realize that most of my classmates 229 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,560 S5: have put on glasses, and that's when I knew I 230 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,750 S5: needed to go see the ophthalmologist and get a prescription. 231 00:11:45,150 --> 00:11:48,189 S5: So that was the first time I realized I actually 232 00:11:48,350 --> 00:11:52,190 S5: need some glasses here. But it also piqued my interest 233 00:11:52,190 --> 00:11:55,350 S5: in worldview. And it serves as a great analogy because 234 00:11:55,350 --> 00:11:59,230 S5: we're all looking at life through a different through different lenses. 235 00:11:59,429 --> 00:12:04,030 S5: And every culture does every, every, you know, different context 236 00:12:04,030 --> 00:12:07,190 S5: for how we live life. But as Christians, we have 237 00:12:07,190 --> 00:12:11,270 S5: been given a biblical worldview that answers questions that every 238 00:12:11,270 --> 00:12:15,350 S5: worldview seeks to answer. Questions like, who am I? What 239 00:12:15,350 --> 00:12:18,430 S5: is my purpose in life? And how do I engage 240 00:12:18,429 --> 00:12:20,990 S5: the life that I've been given? So those are sort 241 00:12:20,990 --> 00:12:26,590 S5: of the bedrock worldview questions. And what differentiates differentiates ourselves 242 00:12:26,590 --> 00:12:29,829 S5: as Christians from, of course, people who hold other worldviews 243 00:12:29,870 --> 00:12:35,069 S5: is Jesus. It's it's looking at life through this creation, fall, 244 00:12:35,070 --> 00:12:39,230 S5: redemption and restoration framework so we can look at life 245 00:12:39,230 --> 00:12:42,540 S5: and we can say, okay, we can start again. Genesis. 246 00:12:42,540 --> 00:12:45,420 S5: Back to Genesis one. We are created in the image 247 00:12:45,420 --> 00:12:48,900 S5: of God. We hold the imago day. No other religion 248 00:12:48,900 --> 00:12:51,699 S5: can say that. You can't say that about Hinduism or 249 00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:54,540 S5: Buddhism or or, you know, being a muslim, you know, 250 00:12:54,580 --> 00:12:59,459 S5: Islam doesn't necessarily claim we are one with God, that 251 00:12:59,460 --> 00:13:02,100 S5: we have been co-created with God in order to steward 252 00:13:02,100 --> 00:13:04,819 S5: the earth. And then we know as Christians there's there's 253 00:13:04,820 --> 00:13:08,900 S5: been a fall. We are separated by sin. But we 254 00:13:08,900 --> 00:13:12,140 S5: know that the gospel comes to redeem, to redeem all 255 00:13:12,140 --> 00:13:15,099 S5: those who are lost. That's all of humanity, to reconcile 256 00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:18,620 S5: us back to Christ. And then also there's that, that 257 00:13:18,660 --> 00:13:22,060 S5: redemption and restoration that we want to restore what the 258 00:13:22,059 --> 00:13:25,620 S5: fall has stolen, what the enemy has stolen from us. 259 00:13:25,780 --> 00:13:30,180 S5: So that is essentially the Christian or biblical worldview. It's 260 00:13:30,179 --> 00:13:34,220 S5: looking at it through a lens that says creation, fall, redemption, 261 00:13:34,220 --> 00:13:38,300 S5: and restoration. And it answers the life questions who am I? 262 00:13:38,580 --> 00:13:40,920 S5: What am I here for? And what do I do 263 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,280 S5: with this life? So. Yes. So when we when we 264 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,880 S5: apply that to social justice, it gives us a radically 265 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,120 S5: different perspective on how we engage the world and how 266 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,840 S5: we essentially right what has been wronged. 267 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:58,319 S1: Excellent. Now, here's the problem. And the the Cultural Research 268 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,000 S1: Center gives us the data that puts the wind in 269 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,079 S1: my sails as I make this statement. We are biblically 270 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,040 S1: illiterate as a church. The things that Doctor Barnett put 271 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,800 S1: out about what we as professing Christians believe to be 272 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,440 S1: true is stunning to me. The only way that gets 273 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,920 S1: eradicated is by spending time in the word. So forgive 274 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,600 S1: me for making a rather pedantic point, but is it 275 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,000 S1: not imperative that if we're going to not only build, 276 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,960 S1: but keep and view through that biblical worldview, we have 277 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,080 S1: to be grounded in His word. We can't do it occasionally. 278 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:28,840 S1: It can't be a one off on a Sunday morning, 279 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:30,400 S1: and we don't pick up the Bible the rest of 280 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,920 S1: the week. How are we going to know not just 281 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,160 S1: what we believe, but why we believe it if we're 282 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,240 S1: not in the word and if we're not in the word? 283 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,790 S1: Isn't that a way for us to get captive by 284 00:14:39,790 --> 00:14:42,030 S1: popular phrases like social justice. 285 00:14:42,750 --> 00:14:46,630 S5: Yeah, absolutely. Because, you know, we were created for truth. 286 00:14:46,830 --> 00:14:50,390 S5: And if we're not seeking Capital-t truth, then what will 287 00:14:50,390 --> 00:14:53,270 S5: end up happening is it will be supplanted by a 288 00:14:53,270 --> 00:14:57,230 S5: false narrative. And social justice in and of itself is 289 00:14:57,230 --> 00:15:00,990 S5: a false narrative because it's incomplete of capital T truth. 290 00:15:01,030 --> 00:15:03,310 S5: So absolutely, Janet, one of the things that I would 291 00:15:03,310 --> 00:15:07,230 S5: encourage your listeners, if they have maybe, you know, children 292 00:15:07,230 --> 00:15:13,550 S5: or grandchildren is what we actually have is a discipleship crisis. So, 293 00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:15,550 S5: I mean, it goes hand in hand with a biblical 294 00:15:15,550 --> 00:15:19,830 S5: literacy crisis, but we also don't have enough people discipling 295 00:15:19,830 --> 00:15:22,989 S5: the younger generation. And I'm saying that as a college professor, 296 00:15:23,390 --> 00:15:25,750 S5: students have come to my classroom. You know, I've been 297 00:15:25,790 --> 00:15:29,190 S5: at large major universities like Baylor. I've been at smaller 298 00:15:29,190 --> 00:15:33,630 S5: universities at Arizona Christian. I even worked with Dallas Theological Seminary, 299 00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:38,020 S5: really great places. I've seen sort of the gamut of 300 00:15:38,020 --> 00:15:40,740 S5: students who have come in. And what I'm realizing is 301 00:15:40,780 --> 00:15:43,180 S5: there are people who, you know, young, young people who 302 00:15:43,180 --> 00:15:47,700 S5: are hungry, but they don't necessarily have somebody discipling them. So. 303 00:15:47,740 --> 00:15:50,940 S5: So yes, there is a biblical literacy problem. Absolutely. And 304 00:15:50,940 --> 00:15:55,900 S5: Barna's data shows that, um, clearly. But what we also 305 00:15:55,900 --> 00:15:58,700 S5: are realizing is that there is a discipleship problem that 306 00:15:58,700 --> 00:16:01,940 S5: we need sort of this, this older generation to reach 307 00:16:01,940 --> 00:16:04,580 S5: down to the younger generation. And that can be done 308 00:16:04,580 --> 00:16:09,220 S5: through churches, that can be done through parachurch ministries. Um, 309 00:16:09,260 --> 00:16:12,100 S5: but yes, to your point, how are we going to 310 00:16:12,140 --> 00:16:16,420 S5: know what the Bible says if we're not in his word? So, absolutely. 311 00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:19,580 S1: You know, you echo exactly what Doctor Barna says every 312 00:16:19,580 --> 00:16:22,340 S1: time he comes in, we digest his worldview inventories. And 313 00:16:22,340 --> 00:16:24,860 S1: that's this question of discipleship, by the way, what an 314 00:16:24,860 --> 00:16:27,780 S1: encouragement to moms and dads and to grandparents. And I'm 315 00:16:27,780 --> 00:16:31,340 S1: so glad you underscored that, Christina, that you you can't 316 00:16:31,380 --> 00:16:34,660 S1: outgrow your usefulness to God and that what you know, 317 00:16:34,820 --> 00:16:36,810 S1: your time in the word can be passed on to 318 00:16:36,850 --> 00:16:39,810 S1: the next generations. That torch of faith has to be 319 00:16:39,810 --> 00:16:43,690 S1: passed on intentionally volitionally. And for us to be grounded 320 00:16:43,690 --> 00:16:45,410 S1: in the word means we might have an impact on 321 00:16:45,410 --> 00:16:47,930 S1: that up and coming next generation as well. So when 322 00:16:47,930 --> 00:16:49,530 S1: we come back to make sure that we're all working 323 00:16:49,530 --> 00:16:52,970 S1: off the same lexicon here, let's define exactly what social 324 00:16:52,970 --> 00:16:56,930 S1: justice is versus biblical justice. And then we're going to 325 00:16:56,930 --> 00:16:59,970 S1: dig deep into some of the worldview parts of this 326 00:16:59,970 --> 00:17:03,650 S1: that sound attractive on the outside, but really they have 327 00:17:03,650 --> 00:17:05,970 S1: their genesis, no pun intended. But there is a reason 328 00:17:05,970 --> 00:17:07,810 S1: why we use the first book of the Bible as 329 00:17:07,810 --> 00:17:12,170 S1: referring to beginnings, have their genesis and some pretty nefarious ideas. 330 00:17:12,170 --> 00:17:16,810 S1: The book is called Redeeming Justice Reclaiming God's Vision for 331 00:17:16,810 --> 00:17:20,130 S1: Doing Good in the World. Again, doctor Christina Crenshaw is 332 00:17:20,130 --> 00:17:22,730 S1: our guest. I've got her link to her website on 333 00:17:22,730 --> 00:17:24,850 S1: my information page, and also a link to the book. 334 00:17:24,890 --> 00:17:27,930 S1: Fabulous and an important read for right now. Back after this. 335 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,560 S1: Redeeming justice, reclaiming God's vision for doing good in the world. 336 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,280 S1: It's the brand new book by Doctor Christina Crenshaw, who 337 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,560 S1: is an assistant professor at Arizona Christian University and a 338 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,720 S1: fellow with their Cultural Research Center. So again, let's get 339 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,040 S1: on the same page. How do you define biblical? Excuse me. 340 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,000 S1: Let me start with social. How do you define social 341 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,080 S1: justice first? 342 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,080 S5: Yeah. Well, you know, what's interesting is that social justice 343 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:14,080 S5: warriors have a really difficult time defining it themselves. Um, 344 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,440 S5: but but in book, what I look at are critical theories. 345 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,080 S5: So a lot of social justice rhetoric, a lot of 346 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:24,960 S5: their ideologies and their philosophies rely on critical theories. And 347 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,360 S5: your your listeners might be familiar with critical theories, but 348 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,159 S5: just in case they aren't, critical theories come out of 349 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,070 S5: the Frankfurt School of thought, kind of the 1920s. Really 350 00:18:35,070 --> 00:18:38,790 S5: the beginning of Marxist thought. It's this idea that we 351 00:18:38,790 --> 00:18:42,190 S5: have to deconstruct all that we've known to be true. 352 00:18:42,430 --> 00:18:45,190 S5: It's this idea that there's always going to be an 353 00:18:45,230 --> 00:18:48,590 S5: oppressed and an oppressor. Um, never mind the fact that 354 00:18:48,590 --> 00:18:52,110 S5: the pendulum swings. We see it swing wildly between oppressed 355 00:18:52,109 --> 00:18:54,830 S5: and oppressor if we look throughout history. So, you know, 356 00:18:54,869 --> 00:18:59,590 S5: it's these relative critical theories. We see them with LGBTQ, 357 00:18:59,950 --> 00:19:03,670 S5: we see them with even some feminist theories. So it's 358 00:19:03,670 --> 00:19:06,110 S5: a lot of critical theories. This is how people would 359 00:19:06,109 --> 00:19:10,990 S5: define social justice that says, um, I've been offended. You're 360 00:19:11,030 --> 00:19:14,830 S5: the offender. I've been oppressed. You're the oppressor. But when 361 00:19:14,830 --> 00:19:17,830 S5: you look at what is your goal? They would say, well, 362 00:19:17,869 --> 00:19:21,350 S5: our goal is equality. Um, first of all, I don't 363 00:19:21,350 --> 00:19:24,950 S5: think that that's actually really true. Their goal is oftentimes 364 00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:29,909 S5: just vindication or to really make somebody else pay. Um, 365 00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:33,260 S5: but if we were to take them at their word 366 00:19:33,260 --> 00:19:36,500 S5: that this is really about equality. We also know that 367 00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:41,260 S5: true equality cannot be achieved apart from Jesus. You know, 368 00:19:41,300 --> 00:19:44,140 S5: I mean, true equality may never be seen in this lifetime. 369 00:19:44,140 --> 00:19:46,940 S5: Scripture is very clear on, you know, sometimes we get 370 00:19:46,940 --> 00:19:51,300 S5: our reward in heaven. Sometimes we don't see justice until heaven. Um, 371 00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:54,500 S5: but even though we should as believers, seek to right 372 00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:59,540 S5: wrongs and to to to really bring people, alleviate hurt 373 00:19:59,540 --> 00:20:02,020 S5: and to stick up for the marginalized and and to 374 00:20:02,060 --> 00:20:04,620 S5: really love our neighbor. I mean, we as believers, we 375 00:20:04,619 --> 00:20:07,260 S5: believe that to be true. We also know we can't 376 00:20:07,260 --> 00:20:10,899 S5: do that apart from Jesus. And so social justice is 377 00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:15,100 S5: devoid of anything that would say you need a redeemer. 378 00:20:15,260 --> 00:20:18,620 S5: So the the difference between social justice and biblical justice 379 00:20:18,660 --> 00:20:23,860 S5: is biblical justice recognizes that the real problem of injustice 380 00:20:23,900 --> 00:20:27,619 S5: is sin. We are sinners. We live in a fallen, 381 00:20:27,619 --> 00:20:30,850 S5: sinful world. There is a real enemy who is out 382 00:20:30,850 --> 00:20:35,450 S5: to kill, steal and destroy. And the answer to injustice 383 00:20:35,490 --> 00:20:40,410 S5: is always Jesus. It begins with Jesus. It includes Jesus, 384 00:20:40,410 --> 00:20:43,530 S5: and it ends with Jesus. And so not to be 385 00:20:43,930 --> 00:20:49,250 S5: oversimplistic about it, but fundamentally, that is the distinction between 386 00:20:49,250 --> 00:20:53,690 S5: social justice and biblical justice. Social justice relies on critical theories, 387 00:20:53,930 --> 00:20:58,050 S5: and the target for truth is always changing because it's relative, 388 00:20:58,050 --> 00:21:03,410 S5: it's post-modern. Um, it's fabricated. It's a false narrative. And 389 00:21:03,410 --> 00:21:08,050 S5: biblical justice relies on the biblical framework, and it recognizes 390 00:21:08,050 --> 00:21:12,210 S5: that we cannot make things right or whole apart from 391 00:21:12,210 --> 00:21:14,929 S5: having a Savior. And that Savior is Jesus. 392 00:21:15,290 --> 00:21:18,369 S1: Well, thank you for such clarity in the definition between 393 00:21:18,369 --> 00:21:20,650 S1: the two. And I was thinking when you were talking, 394 00:21:20,650 --> 00:21:22,850 S1: and I want to say kudos to you for calling 395 00:21:22,850 --> 00:21:25,770 S1: it critical theory. I am loathe to talk about critical 396 00:21:25,770 --> 00:21:28,609 S1: race theory as an example, because critical theory is an 397 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,680 S1: umbrella under which several categories of critical theory operate. Clinical 398 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,959 S1: gay theory. Critical legal theory. Critical race theory. It's a 399 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,440 S1: myriad of theories, all predicated on that hinge point that 400 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,920 S1: you just discussed, which is oppressor and oppressed, which, as 401 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,960 S1: we can see in the culture around us, who gives 402 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,240 S1: us a preponderance of evidence, it gives rise to victimology. 403 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,520 S1: I'm always the victim because somebody is always oppressing. You 404 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,400 S1: also talked about the fact that it's supposedly the strive 405 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,840 S1: for equality. I would even posit that it goes one 406 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,920 S1: step beyond that. It's an insidious little shift. It's no 407 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,840 S1: longer a desire for equality, but equity. And the difference 408 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,640 S1: when that word is equality means equal opportunity. Equity means 409 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,840 S1: equal outcome. All you have to do is read Jesus 410 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,560 S1: and have him talk about the parables and understand that 411 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,919 S1: equity is not anything the Lord ever purports, other than 412 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,840 S1: all have sinned and come short of the glory of 413 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,280 S1: God and God's love, the entire world that he gave 414 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,959 S1: His Son for us. So there there is absolute equality. 415 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,320 S1: We're all equally sinners, all equally unrighteous, all equally in 416 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,540 S1: need of a Savior. But if you want to talk 417 00:22:28,540 --> 00:22:30,699 S1: about the haves and the have nots, which is a 418 00:22:30,700 --> 00:22:36,020 S1: subtext of this Marxist, Leninist worldview, you know, First Thessalonians says, 419 00:22:36,020 --> 00:22:38,139 S1: you don't work, you don't eat. I mean, there's a 420 00:22:38,140 --> 00:22:41,700 S1: myriad of responsibilities, choices and action, choices and consequences. But 421 00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:46,460 S1: somehow in this post-modernist idea, the idea is I should 422 00:22:46,460 --> 00:22:48,939 S1: have total liberty, total choice. But I'm not going to 423 00:22:48,980 --> 00:22:52,580 S1: discuss the consequences. Why have we had. And I think 424 00:22:52,580 --> 00:22:54,980 S1: this raises a kind of philosophical question, but I'm intrigued 425 00:22:54,980 --> 00:22:56,659 S1: by this, particularly if you look at it from an 426 00:22:56,660 --> 00:23:02,380 S1: evangelistic perspective. Why the receptivity now, particularly in certain age 427 00:23:02,380 --> 00:23:06,940 S1: demographics to Marxist-Leninist ideas, if you're just a casual student 428 00:23:06,940 --> 00:23:09,379 S1: of history. We've got a monument here in my town. 429 00:23:09,380 --> 00:23:11,940 S1: We've got an entire museum to those who have died 430 00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:16,060 S1: by communism. Why would anybody think that? That's an attractive, 431 00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:18,500 S1: appealing sort of form of governance? 432 00:23:19,220 --> 00:23:23,419 S5: Yeah, well, I think that probably, Janet, it's because we 433 00:23:23,460 --> 00:23:25,619 S5: were created to worship. And if we're not going to 434 00:23:25,810 --> 00:23:29,250 S5: worship the Lord. Then we are going to replace that 435 00:23:29,250 --> 00:23:33,010 S5: need to understand the world, to stand on something that 436 00:23:33,010 --> 00:23:35,890 S5: feels truthful. And so, of course, we know that critical 437 00:23:35,890 --> 00:23:39,369 S5: theories and Marxist theories, that there's nothing true about it, 438 00:23:39,369 --> 00:23:43,169 S5: that it's antithetical actually to the gospel. I don't know 439 00:23:43,170 --> 00:23:46,930 S5: how people reconcile the two, because you can't. Um, but 440 00:23:46,930 --> 00:23:50,650 S5: I think that this is a younger generation. And, you know, 441 00:23:50,690 --> 00:23:54,409 S5: I say, you know, a younger generation, millennials and Gen Z, um, 442 00:23:54,410 --> 00:23:59,770 S5: really grappling for I want there to be justice, but 443 00:23:59,770 --> 00:24:03,290 S5: I'm not sure that I can accept the Christian narrative. 444 00:24:03,530 --> 00:24:07,210 S5: So what they're doing is they're grasping for anything that 445 00:24:07,210 --> 00:24:10,090 S5: they're fed. And I mean, we know from the data, too, 446 00:24:10,130 --> 00:24:14,050 S5: that social media has fed this beat, unfortunately. 447 00:24:14,250 --> 00:24:14,609 S3: Yeah. 448 00:24:14,650 --> 00:24:17,850 S1: I think you're so spot on. It's an absolutely fabulous book. 449 00:24:17,850 --> 00:24:21,010 S1: I am skating across the surface. There's much to dive 450 00:24:21,010 --> 00:24:25,320 S1: into in Christina Crenshaw's brand new book. Redeeming Justice. subtitle 451 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,120 S1: gives you an insight redeeming God's vision for doing good 452 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,000 S1: in the world. Again, a distinctive between biblical justice and 453 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:57,600 S1: social justice. More with Doctor Crenshaw right after this. The 454 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,200 S1: Bible says the Word of God illuminates our walk through life. 455 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:01,960 S1: It's a lamp to our feet and a light to 456 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,520 S1: our path. Without it, we stumble and fall in the 457 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,600 S1: market with Janet Partial is designed to help you look 458 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,960 S1: at the headlines of the day through the lens of Scripture. 459 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,919 S1: When you become a partial partner, you help to make 460 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,879 S1: this broadcast possible, and as a partial partner, you'll receive 461 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,040 S1: exclusive benefits. So why not become a partial partner today? 462 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,439 S1: Call 877 Janet 58 or go to in the market 463 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:27,550 S1: with Janet Parshall. We're spending the hour with Doctor Christina Crenshaw. 464 00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:30,550 S1: She's got over 20 years of experience as a professor, 465 00:25:30,590 --> 00:25:33,469 S1: a researcher, a writer, and a speaker. She is currently 466 00:25:33,670 --> 00:25:37,109 S1: an assistant professor at Arizona Christian University and a fellow 467 00:25:37,109 --> 00:25:40,429 S1: with their Cultural Research Center. She has held faculty and 468 00:25:40,430 --> 00:25:46,190 S1: leadership positions at California Baptist University, Baylor University, Dallas Theological Seminary, 469 00:25:46,190 --> 00:25:49,790 S1: and Southwestern Seminary. She joins us today with a very 470 00:25:49,790 --> 00:25:52,950 S1: timely and eye opening book for the church. Let me 471 00:25:52,950 --> 00:25:57,590 S1: underscore called Redeeming Justice Reclaiming God's Vision for Doing Good 472 00:25:57,590 --> 00:26:02,270 S1: in the world. And this is a very important dissertation, 473 00:26:02,270 --> 00:26:04,109 S1: if I can put it that way. It breaks down 474 00:26:04,109 --> 00:26:06,910 S1: the whole idea of social justice, which is talked about 475 00:26:06,910 --> 00:26:09,429 S1: in the marketplace of ideas all the time. But it 476 00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:11,990 S1: is imperative that we as followers of Christ, understand that 477 00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:17,830 S1: that is a different perspective than biblical justice. So let me, uh, 478 00:26:17,910 --> 00:26:19,750 S1: there's so many directions I want to take this, Christina, 479 00:26:19,790 --> 00:26:22,940 S1: because your book is just filled with so much excellent information. 480 00:26:22,940 --> 00:26:26,220 S1: Let me, if I can, reference one, Jacob Alan Cooke 481 00:26:26,540 --> 00:26:28,859 S1: and he writes. In fact, you talk about him writing 482 00:26:28,859 --> 00:26:32,020 S1: an academic book called Worldview Theory whiteness and the Future 483 00:26:32,020 --> 00:26:34,260 S1: of Evangelical Faith. What's his point? 484 00:26:35,660 --> 00:26:39,219 S5: Yeah. So I think that what a lot of people 485 00:26:39,220 --> 00:26:44,100 S5: get trapped by is this idea that Christianity is a 486 00:26:44,260 --> 00:26:49,980 S5: white nationalist religion, and we forget that Christianity is actually 487 00:26:50,020 --> 00:26:54,980 S5: it's a global it's a historical faith that transcends many 488 00:26:54,980 --> 00:26:58,300 S5: cultures and it transcends throughout time, which is why we 489 00:26:58,300 --> 00:27:02,780 S5: can trust it. Unlike critical theories, unlike social justice that 490 00:27:02,780 --> 00:27:06,419 S5: is relative and changing and postmodern, all of the things 491 00:27:06,420 --> 00:27:09,659 S5: that make it untrustworthy. And so what I try to 492 00:27:09,660 --> 00:27:12,900 S5: do in the book is to highlight different voices who 493 00:27:12,900 --> 00:27:18,580 S5: are calling the church back to Jesus as the center stone, 494 00:27:18,580 --> 00:27:22,210 S5: if you will, back to this creation fall redemption mandate 495 00:27:22,210 --> 00:27:24,810 S5: that says, hey, we engage the world. We do good 496 00:27:24,810 --> 00:27:28,930 S5: in the world because we have a framework that points 497 00:27:28,930 --> 00:27:33,050 S5: to God's truth, and we can stand on 2000 years 498 00:27:33,050 --> 00:27:37,370 S5: of church history as evidence for doing good. Um, so 499 00:27:37,770 --> 00:27:40,530 S5: I think that the quote you're referring to is probably 500 00:27:40,530 --> 00:27:44,570 S5: within the context of people who would like to say otherwise, 501 00:27:44,570 --> 00:27:48,690 S5: that we can't trust Christianity because it's really just a 502 00:27:48,690 --> 00:27:53,410 S5: white Christian nationalist religion. And so I give some attention to, hey, 503 00:27:53,450 --> 00:27:56,490 S5: let me debunk this. Let me show you how we 504 00:27:56,490 --> 00:28:00,290 S5: have a global body of Christ that is really doing 505 00:28:00,290 --> 00:28:05,810 S5: good works for the gospel in Jesus name, for the kingdom. Um, 506 00:28:05,850 --> 00:28:08,889 S5: to really try to debunk those who would say otherwise. 507 00:28:09,330 --> 00:28:11,889 S1: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. So let me let's do 508 00:28:11,890 --> 00:28:14,530 S1: the practicum at this point. So let's take part of 509 00:28:14,530 --> 00:28:18,810 S1: his title, whiteness. And let's just talk about this aberration 510 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,439 S1: called slavery. And let's use, I don't know, as an example, 511 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,960 S1: William Wilberforce, a man who was conflicted because he felt 512 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:26,880 S1: drawn to the pulpit, but he was also a member 513 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,719 S1: of Parliament, and he wanted to figure out what he 514 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,360 S1: could do to eradicate the slave trade in the U.K., 515 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,200 S1: in England. This was before we were trying to deal 516 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,879 S1: with it at the same level here in the United States. 517 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,280 S1: While there was a social impact and his ability to finally, 518 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,920 S1: just before he died, have a law passed that eradicated 519 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,480 S1: the slave trade in England that had a social impact. 520 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,480 S1: But the catalyst for his doing that was his biblical worldview. 521 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,160 S1: Isn't that what you're talking about? 522 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,080 S5: It is exactly what I'm talking about. And I even 523 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,040 S5: reference Wilberforce in the book when I talk about the 524 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,360 S5: abolitionist movement. And even just tomorrow, my students are reading 525 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,400 S5: Hannah Moore, who I'm teaching a women's lit class. And 526 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,240 S5: so I'm trying to highlight Christian voices of women who 527 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,520 S5: have contributed to, you know, really the advancement and support 528 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,390 S5: of women. And Hannah Moore is one of them. Um, 529 00:29:18,430 --> 00:29:21,910 S5: but again, she wasn't calling for the advancement of women 530 00:29:21,910 --> 00:29:25,230 S5: or the abolition of slavery because she was a social 531 00:29:25,230 --> 00:29:28,750 S5: justice warrior. She did it because she recognized the imago 532 00:29:28,790 --> 00:29:33,390 S5: dei that Christianity provides. And so so those are actually 533 00:29:33,390 --> 00:29:37,830 S5: really great examples that I include in my book. William Wilberforce, um, 534 00:29:37,830 --> 00:29:40,790 S5: I go, you know, even as, as modern as talking 535 00:29:40,790 --> 00:29:43,830 S5: about Mother Teresa. I talk about, you know, different people 536 00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:47,110 S5: who have started Christian education. You know, we we often 537 00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:49,790 S5: forget or, I mean, maybe not in higher ed, but 538 00:29:49,790 --> 00:29:53,510 S5: the general public forgets that most of our universities started 539 00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:58,190 S5: as seminaries. Even Harvard. Princeton, you know, these were originally 540 00:29:58,190 --> 00:30:01,350 S5: places that were meant to teach truth and to teach 541 00:30:01,350 --> 00:30:05,470 S5: truth through a Christian worldview, through a biblical lens. Um, 542 00:30:05,470 --> 00:30:08,390 S5: and we've drifted, you know, as you mentioned earlier, we've had, 543 00:30:08,430 --> 00:30:10,990 S5: you know, different thought creep. You know, we've become very 544 00:30:10,990 --> 00:30:16,300 S5: relative and postmodern, and we've allowed that to supplant What 545 00:30:16,340 --> 00:30:20,140 S5: God says to be true about really doing good work 546 00:30:20,140 --> 00:30:22,620 S5: in the world. And so, yes, I do try to 547 00:30:22,660 --> 00:30:26,420 S5: to bring in some historical examples of here are some 548 00:30:26,420 --> 00:30:29,100 S5: heroes of the faith that you can look to who 549 00:30:29,380 --> 00:30:32,580 S5: have done great things, and they've done it not in 550 00:30:32,580 --> 00:30:35,460 S5: the name of society, which that's what social justice would 551 00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:37,540 S5: tell you to do, that you're doing it under society. 552 00:30:37,740 --> 00:30:40,460 S5: These are people who are doing it unto God. 553 00:30:41,340 --> 00:30:42,980 S1: So let me play the skeptic for a minute. What 554 00:30:42,980 --> 00:30:45,780 S1: about the person listening to this conversation who says, well, 555 00:30:45,980 --> 00:30:49,620 S1: so this person does it because they believe in social justice. 556 00:30:49,620 --> 00:30:51,860 S1: This person does it because of your whatever you call 557 00:30:51,860 --> 00:30:54,500 S1: your biblical worldview, as long as you get to the 558 00:30:54,500 --> 00:30:57,260 S1: same end. What difference does it make where your starting 559 00:30:57,260 --> 00:30:59,420 S1: point is? Break that down for me. Why is there 560 00:30:59,420 --> 00:31:00,140 S1: a difference? 561 00:31:00,980 --> 00:31:03,140 S5: Yeah, well, and this is why I wrote the book 562 00:31:03,140 --> 00:31:05,180 S5: for Christians, you know, so they're always very clear when 563 00:31:05,180 --> 00:31:07,459 S5: you write a book, who's your audience? And I'm calling 564 00:31:07,460 --> 00:31:11,460 S5: Christians back. Right. But to that skeptic, to someone who says, 565 00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:14,060 S5: you know, well, under the name of pluralism, we can 566 00:31:14,060 --> 00:31:16,969 S5: all gather and and hold hands. And I and I 567 00:31:17,010 --> 00:31:19,810 S5: do want to say that there is room to work together. I, 568 00:31:19,850 --> 00:31:22,209 S5: I do believe I mean, you know, living in Washington DC, 569 00:31:22,250 --> 00:31:25,490 S5: nothing would get done if there wasn't some sort of 570 00:31:25,530 --> 00:31:29,170 S5: semblance of like, hey, here is some common ground that 571 00:31:29,170 --> 00:31:32,410 S5: we can work towards for the common good. Okay, fine. 572 00:31:32,450 --> 00:31:36,570 S5: Outside of a Christian circle. Within a Christian circle, we 573 00:31:36,570 --> 00:31:41,370 S5: know that the telos, the reason for eternity matters. You 574 00:31:41,370 --> 00:31:44,410 S5: know what is the end goal here? I am created 575 00:31:44,410 --> 00:31:47,370 S5: for eternity. I am created to worship God. I am 576 00:31:47,370 --> 00:31:51,730 S5: created to bring heaven to earth and to help redeem 577 00:31:51,730 --> 00:31:55,930 S5: and restore. And so that drastically shifts my perspective for 578 00:31:55,930 --> 00:31:59,410 S5: why I'm going to engage in good. So if someone 579 00:31:59,410 --> 00:32:03,130 S5: wants to join me in habitat for humanity work and 580 00:32:03,130 --> 00:32:06,050 S5: to build houses and and to care for the poor, 581 00:32:06,050 --> 00:32:09,090 S5: I say, you know, welcome. But I'm also very clear 582 00:32:09,090 --> 00:32:11,330 S5: that I can do these things. But if I have 583 00:32:11,330 --> 00:32:14,870 S5: not shared the gospel, if I have not given people 584 00:32:14,910 --> 00:32:18,630 S5: an opportunity for salvation, then I have failed them. And 585 00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:22,550 S5: so that's where there is a line in the sand 586 00:32:22,550 --> 00:32:26,270 S5: between social justice and biblical justice. Social justice looks to 587 00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:30,830 S5: just right wrongs in society this side of heaven. Biblical 588 00:32:30,830 --> 00:32:34,270 S5: justice is working to not only right wrongs, but to 589 00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:38,229 S5: also lead people towards salvation. Because I, you and I 590 00:32:38,230 --> 00:32:40,390 S5: know Janet, we can empty our bank accounts. We can. 591 00:32:40,390 --> 00:32:42,550 S5: We can do all the good in the world. But 592 00:32:42,550 --> 00:32:44,790 S5: if I had not given them the gospel, if I 593 00:32:44,790 --> 00:32:48,510 S5: have not given them an opportunity to to encounter the Lord, 594 00:32:48,550 --> 00:32:51,590 S5: then what have I really given them? And so that 595 00:32:51,630 --> 00:32:54,550 S5: too is a distinction between social justice and biblical justice. 596 00:32:54,790 --> 00:32:58,310 S5: What is the telos? What is the end goal here? Um, 597 00:32:58,350 --> 00:33:02,030 S5: and Christianity answers that question says we are made. Made 598 00:33:02,030 --> 00:33:02,910 S5: for eternity. 599 00:33:03,270 --> 00:33:05,350 S1: Oh, that's such an important point. If I may, let's 600 00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:09,710 S1: linger here for just a minute because, um, I think of, um, Augustine, 601 00:33:09,710 --> 00:33:11,390 S1: the city of God and the city of man. So 602 00:33:11,390 --> 00:33:15,300 S1: we have temporal citizenship here. We have eternal citizenship with him. 603 00:33:15,500 --> 00:33:18,780 S1: From a biblical worldview, the reason I don't grow weary 604 00:33:18,780 --> 00:33:22,740 S1: in Well-doing is because I understand the temporal nature of 605 00:33:22,740 --> 00:33:25,780 S1: my experience in here, but I'm doing it with an 606 00:33:25,820 --> 00:33:28,900 S1: eternal perspective. And you just said something important. So I 607 00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:30,780 S1: look back over the history of the church, and it's 608 00:33:30,780 --> 00:33:34,380 S1: a rich, deep history. We started the Foundling hospitals, we 609 00:33:34,380 --> 00:33:39,219 S1: started the mission centers. We started the care for unwed mothers, 610 00:33:39,220 --> 00:33:42,020 S1: the missions work where Amy Carmichael is helping kids. And 611 00:33:42,020 --> 00:33:43,620 S1: I mean, the list goes on and on and on. 612 00:33:43,820 --> 00:33:47,420 S1: The church capital C universal has a broad, rich history 613 00:33:47,420 --> 00:33:50,820 S1: of having societal impacts because of their love of Christ 614 00:33:50,820 --> 00:33:53,020 S1: and the love of other people going to something. And 615 00:33:53,020 --> 00:33:55,940 S1: Christina has said on multiple occasions, seeing the image of 616 00:33:55,940 --> 00:33:58,660 S1: God in our fellow man, it was what keeps the 617 00:33:58,660 --> 00:34:01,459 S1: wind in our sails and what would be otherwise a 618 00:34:01,500 --> 00:34:03,900 S1: futile issue. Because we're always going to have poverty, we're 619 00:34:03,900 --> 00:34:05,980 S1: always going to have sin, we're always going to have disease. 620 00:34:06,180 --> 00:34:08,779 S1: But that idea that here we can introduce them to 621 00:34:08,820 --> 00:34:12,010 S1: the person of Jesus Christ has such a profound impact. 622 00:34:12,010 --> 00:34:15,890 S1: So it seems to me that one of the important 623 00:34:15,890 --> 00:34:20,370 S1: distinctions is understanding that we do this giving him the glory, 624 00:34:20,370 --> 00:34:22,490 S1: giving him the honor, and we're not going to solve 625 00:34:22,489 --> 00:34:25,730 S1: all ills. But if we can just love one person 626 00:34:25,730 --> 00:34:28,890 S1: appropriately in the name of Christ, well, we've meted out 627 00:34:28,890 --> 00:34:31,569 S1: biblical justice. Give me some examples in Scripture where we 628 00:34:31,570 --> 00:34:33,330 S1: see biblical justice played out. 629 00:34:34,170 --> 00:34:36,969 S5: Yeah. Well, you know, one of the ones that I 630 00:34:36,969 --> 00:34:40,569 S5: was actually asked about earlier, you know, for some examples, 631 00:34:40,570 --> 00:34:43,169 S5: and I said, you know, it strikes me that when 632 00:34:43,170 --> 00:34:46,930 S5: Jesus is talking about all of the different parables of 633 00:34:46,930 --> 00:34:49,930 S5: what has been lost, the lost coin, the lost sheep, 634 00:34:50,010 --> 00:34:54,410 S5: the prodigal son, the lost son, that in every single 635 00:34:54,410 --> 00:34:57,770 S5: one of those examples, Jesus is bringing what has been 636 00:34:57,770 --> 00:35:01,730 S5: lost back home. You know, it is not a hey, 637 00:35:01,770 --> 00:35:05,330 S5: let's go to what has been broken, what has been lost, 638 00:35:05,370 --> 00:35:10,160 S5: what is confused, and let's go be with that person instead. 639 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,319 S5: It's how do we bring this back to what is 640 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:18,080 S5: foundationally the touchstone for truth? What is home? And so 641 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,920 S5: to me, that is actually a really great profound. And 642 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,759 S5: I write about that in the book about examples of, okay, 643 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:28,439 S5: when we're doing justice, this isn't just about going, you know, 644 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,919 S5: walking the mile with the person who has gone astray 645 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,919 S5: and meeting them there. Yes, we do that. But then 646 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,440 S5: we bring them back to home. Being the church, home, 647 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,040 S5: being right relationship with God, home being what is again 648 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,520 S5: redeemed and restored. And so for me, those are some 649 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,960 S5: there's maybe some not like, um, initially glaring obvious examples. 650 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,879 S5: You know, we often think of like Micah six eight, 651 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,480 S5: you know, you know, the Lord asks us to, to 652 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,359 S5: do justice and to and to walk humbly. And there 653 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,440 S5: are so many verses, particularly in the Old Testament, where, 654 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,760 S5: you know, God says, I am a God of justice. 655 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,280 S5: But even some of the New Testament examples where Jesus says, hey, 656 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,270 S5: if you want to do justice, we will bring what 657 00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:11,950 S5: is lost. We will redeem and restore it and bring 658 00:36:11,950 --> 00:36:14,230 S5: it home to the feet of Jesus. 659 00:36:14,590 --> 00:36:17,430 S1: Oh, what a great point! The book is called Redeeming 660 00:36:17,430 --> 00:36:21,110 S1: Justice Reclaiming God's Vision for Doing Good in the world. 661 00:36:21,150 --> 00:36:22,750 S1: By the way, if you go to our website in 662 00:36:22,790 --> 00:36:26,509 S1: the market with Janet Parshall under the summation of the 663 00:36:26,510 --> 00:36:30,549 S1: hour's conversation, there's a red box. It says Program Details 664 00:36:30,550 --> 00:36:32,590 S1: and audio. Click that on. It'll take you to the 665 00:36:32,590 --> 00:36:35,430 S1: information page. You're going to see a picture of Christina's 666 00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:39,910 S1: beautiful face, a link to her website. Doctor Christina crenshaw.com. 667 00:36:39,910 --> 00:36:42,190 S1: And on the right hand side, the book that is 668 00:36:42,190 --> 00:36:45,029 S1: the basis of our conversation, Redeeming Justice. Check it out. 669 00:36:45,070 --> 00:37:00,950 S1: Back after this. We're visiting with Doctor Christina Crenshaw, who 670 00:37:00,950 --> 00:37:06,020 S1: is an associate assistant professor at Arizona Christian University and 671 00:37:06,020 --> 00:37:08,219 S1: a fellow with their Cultural Research Center. They put out 672 00:37:08,219 --> 00:37:12,060 S1: just fabulous information, as you regular listeners know. She's also 673 00:37:12,060 --> 00:37:16,100 S1: authored a very important book called Redeeming Justice Reclaiming God's 674 00:37:16,100 --> 00:37:19,739 S1: Vision for Doing Good in the world. Ideas have consequences. 675 00:37:19,780 --> 00:37:21,940 S1: A lot of people think, oh, this is all philosophy. 676 00:37:21,940 --> 00:37:24,419 S1: It's over my head. It doesn't have any meaning in 677 00:37:24,420 --> 00:37:26,700 S1: my real world. It doesn't have anything to do with 678 00:37:26,700 --> 00:37:29,220 S1: my shoe leather and how I go about my daily life. 679 00:37:29,739 --> 00:37:33,340 S1: These ideas surround you, and they have influenced by the way. 680 00:37:33,380 --> 00:37:36,860 S1: And in order for you to recognize the Pied Piper's 681 00:37:36,860 --> 00:37:38,940 S1: call here, you need to know the tune that he 682 00:37:38,940 --> 00:37:41,219 S1: or she is playing. So one of the words that 683 00:37:41,219 --> 00:37:43,259 S1: Christine and I have used during the course of this hour, 684 00:37:43,260 --> 00:37:45,060 S1: and I realize I was remiss in not taking a 685 00:37:45,060 --> 00:37:48,660 S1: moment to define it, is talking about postmodernism when we 686 00:37:48,660 --> 00:37:50,140 S1: say that, Christina, what do we mean? 687 00:37:51,060 --> 00:37:54,779 S5: Yeah. So postmodernism, probably the simplest way to explain it 688 00:37:54,780 --> 00:37:58,219 S5: is post-truth, um, in the book. So, you know, just 689 00:37:58,219 --> 00:38:00,140 S5: to kind of give a little bit of context here, 690 00:38:00,260 --> 00:38:03,300 S5: I start part one off of the book talking about 691 00:38:03,300 --> 00:38:07,049 S5: this cultural moment. So really trying to break down. How 692 00:38:07,050 --> 00:38:11,370 S5: did we get here, Janet? So I look at really 693 00:38:11,410 --> 00:38:16,650 S5: how we got to post-modernism, how it became true after enlightenment, 694 00:38:16,850 --> 00:38:21,770 S5: that truth started to become really relative. And in a 695 00:38:21,770 --> 00:38:25,650 S5: postmodern culture, which is what we're living in. So there's modernism, 696 00:38:25,650 --> 00:38:30,170 S5: which is modernity, kind of like the 1920s to 1940s, really, 697 00:38:30,170 --> 00:38:34,330 S5: after World War Two, kind of particularly by the 1960s, 698 00:38:34,650 --> 00:38:39,650 S5: we stopped relying on a Christian worldview to inform our life, 699 00:38:39,690 --> 00:38:42,089 S5: our politics, the way that we do family, the way 700 00:38:42,090 --> 00:38:45,290 S5: that we do education, the way that we do all 701 00:38:45,290 --> 00:38:49,250 S5: spheres of influence that impact our life. And the ramifications 702 00:38:49,250 --> 00:38:51,649 S5: of that have been dire. You know, as we look 703 00:38:51,650 --> 00:38:56,770 S5: across culture, we can see real distinctions between what Americans 704 00:38:56,770 --> 00:38:59,810 S5: and even other Western parts of the world, you know, 705 00:38:59,810 --> 00:39:03,839 S5: the UK particularly what we valued, what we upheld, what 706 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,560 S5: we fought for, what we said we believe to be true. 707 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:11,400 S5: And there's a strong correlation between how Christian a country is, 708 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,120 S5: how often people attend church, how often they're in the 709 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,840 S5: the word, the word versus the world. Um, and then 710 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:24,200 S5: the outcomes of that culture. And so what postmodernism has 711 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,640 S5: done is it has told people it sold us the 712 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,960 S5: lie that truth is relative. You're you know, you've probably 713 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,480 S5: heard your listeners have heard the slogan, your truth is 714 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,480 S5: your truth. Or, you know, that sort of thing. You're like, well, 715 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,160 S5: where does that come from? That comes from the idea 716 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,719 S5: that there is no longer the truth. So that's just 717 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,080 S5: one example of what postmodernism is. It's a kind of 718 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:49,320 S5: a thought crept philosophy that has made its way into, um, 719 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,000 S5: even some of our Christian homes, unfortunately. 720 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,560 S1: Exactly. So let's call balls and strikes here. That is 721 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,440 S1: a worldview that is stands in stark opposition to a 722 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,070 S1: biblical worldview, because if of anything. We follow a Savior 723 00:40:03,070 --> 00:40:05,390 S1: who has multiple names, not the least of which is truth. 724 00:40:05,390 --> 00:40:07,589 S1: I am the way, the truth, and the life. No 725 00:40:07,590 --> 00:40:10,229 S1: one comes to the father but by me. Truth is 726 00:40:10,230 --> 00:40:13,390 S1: his Word. Inerrant, transcended, immutable, applies to all people, all 727 00:40:13,390 --> 00:40:16,230 S1: times and all places the same yesterday, today, and forever. 728 00:40:16,469 --> 00:40:18,589 S1: So this idea that you have your truth and I 729 00:40:18,590 --> 00:40:21,070 S1: have my truth, is right out of the gate, fallacious 730 00:40:21,070 --> 00:40:23,509 S1: and falls under its own weight because therefore there is 731 00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:26,630 S1: no truth. Truth is transcendent. So for the believer, if 732 00:40:26,670 --> 00:40:29,069 S1: we're into His word, if we're reading His word, if 733 00:40:29,070 --> 00:40:32,190 S1: we have a solid biblical worldview right out of the gate, 734 00:40:32,190 --> 00:40:34,990 S1: we're going in an opposite direction than a postmodernist, because 735 00:40:34,989 --> 00:40:38,669 S1: we believe the truth is objective and it's knowable, and 736 00:40:38,670 --> 00:40:42,229 S1: it's available for every single person. So that's the first 737 00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:45,030 S1: point that I think is important. Flip this around then 738 00:40:45,070 --> 00:40:48,910 S1: if that's one of the main definers of postmodernism, then 739 00:40:48,910 --> 00:40:51,910 S1: what are some of the absolute must haves in a 740 00:40:51,910 --> 00:40:53,029 S1: biblical worldview? 741 00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:57,989 S5: Yeah, well, I think, you know, not to be pedantic, 742 00:40:57,989 --> 00:41:01,410 S5: but starting back at Genesis one is a great place. 743 00:41:01,450 --> 00:41:04,529 S5: You know, our culture is confused, as we talked about 744 00:41:04,530 --> 00:41:06,489 S5: at the beginning of the hour on what even is 745 00:41:06,489 --> 00:41:10,129 S5: male and female. And God defines us, defines that for 746 00:41:10,130 --> 00:41:13,970 S5: us in, you know, beginning of the Bible. Um, so 747 00:41:14,370 --> 00:41:17,170 S5: little things and well, they have big ramifications. So they're 748 00:41:17,170 --> 00:41:20,090 S5: not little. But these things that we have historically taken 749 00:41:20,090 --> 00:41:23,290 S5: for granted, the reason you don't see Augustine wrestling with 750 00:41:23,290 --> 00:41:25,529 S5: these truths or, you know, some of the heroes of 751 00:41:25,530 --> 00:41:27,930 S5: the great that we've talked about is because it was 752 00:41:27,930 --> 00:41:32,290 S5: a given. We understood. We stood together in solidarity on 753 00:41:32,330 --> 00:41:34,770 S5: that ground that God has created us, male and female, 754 00:41:34,810 --> 00:41:37,770 S5: male and female. He has created us for a purpose. Um, 755 00:41:37,810 --> 00:41:39,650 S5: and so I think that it does go back to 756 00:41:39,690 --> 00:41:44,250 S5: what we talked about earlier with biblical literacy and discipleship 757 00:41:44,250 --> 00:41:49,049 S5: and understanding, you know, the apologetics of being able to 758 00:41:49,050 --> 00:41:52,130 S5: defend your faith. You know, this book has been labeled 759 00:41:52,130 --> 00:41:54,370 S5: I didn't mean for it to quite be an apologetics book, 760 00:41:54,370 --> 00:41:58,920 S5: but it's categorized as that, which is fine. It's great, 761 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,840 S5: but it is. It is just a defense of faith. 762 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:06,040 S5: This is a defense of justice. But from a biblical perspective, 763 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:10,120 S5: it's reclaiming it back. It's taking it back from social justice, 764 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,239 S5: which has hijacked it. And it's saying, hey, these things 765 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,280 S5: that you value and you love, the reason you value 766 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,480 S5: and love them is because God was the author of them. 767 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,959 S5: But we're going to reframe some of what culture has 768 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,000 S5: tried to steal, um, under the guise of critical theories 769 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,759 S5: or social justice narratives. And we're going to shine a 770 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,920 S5: light on them and show you how this really belongs 771 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:33,800 S5: to the Lord. 772 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,680 S1: Amen. You make this important statement in the book. You 773 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,640 S1: say it's harder to discern what is biblical justice and 774 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:44,040 S1: what is political activism. We want to encourage people to 775 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,759 S1: let their light so shine, not to retreat, to recognize 776 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:51,759 S1: their temporal citizenship. Uh, here. Uh, and so that requires 777 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,560 S1: us doing something. Faith without works is dead. Not saved 778 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,350 S1: by works, but for good works. So how do we 779 00:42:58,390 --> 00:43:01,350 S1: not let this idea, oh, you're becoming political, be used 780 00:43:01,350 --> 00:43:04,710 S1: as a heckler's veto and silence us from stepping into 781 00:43:04,710 --> 00:43:07,469 S1: the marketplace and practicing biblical justice? 782 00:43:08,310 --> 00:43:10,950 S5: Yeah, so this isn't exactly what you asked, Janet, but 783 00:43:10,950 --> 00:43:13,230 S5: I think it's a good time to say I find 784 00:43:13,230 --> 00:43:18,390 S5: the accusation of Christian nationalism really unhelpful and circular because 785 00:43:18,390 --> 00:43:22,110 S5: when it comes down to it, every Christian wants justice. 786 00:43:22,270 --> 00:43:25,630 S5: You know you've got the right who I wholly agree 787 00:43:25,630 --> 00:43:28,430 S5: with saying, we need to end abortion. We need to 788 00:43:28,469 --> 00:43:32,350 S5: uphold life. God values life. Yes and amen. And then 789 00:43:32,350 --> 00:43:34,589 S5: you have more progressive people who are saying, in the 790 00:43:34,590 --> 00:43:37,469 S5: name of love your neighbor, fill in the blank. What 791 00:43:37,469 --> 00:43:41,230 S5: they're just unwilling to recognize is that they too want 792 00:43:41,270 --> 00:43:44,270 S5: biblical justice. They may interpret it differently, but they do 793 00:43:44,310 --> 00:43:46,910 S5: want God in the public square. Or they wouldn't say, 794 00:43:46,910 --> 00:43:50,629 S5: love your neighbor. And so I think that it's recognizing 795 00:43:50,670 --> 00:43:54,430 S5: that we do want God in our public square, and 796 00:43:54,469 --> 00:43:57,900 S5: we want to be able to discern the difference between 797 00:43:58,180 --> 00:44:02,700 S5: when we are aligning with something political that isn't biblical. 798 00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:05,419 S5: So maybe an example of that would be when our 799 00:44:05,420 --> 00:44:10,899 S5: politicians are not strong on a pro-life policy. That would 800 00:44:10,900 --> 00:44:12,620 S5: be more political than difficult. 801 00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:16,580 S1: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, that our went far too quickly, Christina. 802 00:44:16,620 --> 00:44:18,420 S1: I hope I've done my job. And I piqued the 803 00:44:18,420 --> 00:44:21,339 S1: curiosity of our friends listening all across the country. This 804 00:44:21,340 --> 00:44:24,980 S1: is a hugely important conversation. My job, as you know, 805 00:44:24,980 --> 00:44:27,739 S1: if you listen with any regularity, is to gently but 806 00:44:27,739 --> 00:44:31,339 S1: consistently push you out into the marketplace of ideas. So 807 00:44:31,340 --> 00:44:33,580 S1: you need to learn to discern. You need to be 808 00:44:33,580 --> 00:44:36,540 S1: a person of noble character, like the Bereans of old, 809 00:44:36,540 --> 00:44:40,460 S1: and understanding the distinction between biblical and social justice is 810 00:44:40,460 --> 00:44:44,859 S1: a finely, finely tuned skill and a necessary one as 811 00:44:44,860 --> 00:44:47,620 S1: you continue your pilgrim's progress. Christina, thank you for an 812 00:44:47,620 --> 00:44:50,219 S1: excellent conversation and thank you, friends. We'll see you next 813 00:44:50,219 --> 00:44:52,340 S1: time on In the Market with Janet Parshall.