1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 S1: Hi friends. Thanks so much for downloading this podcast, and 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,000 S1: I hope truly that you will hear something that will encourage, edify, equip, 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,360 S1: and enlighten you to get out there and influence and 4 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,040 S1: occupy until he comes. And on that note, may I 5 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,080 S1: take just a few moments here to describe this month's 6 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,920 S1: truth tool? It's by pastor Jack Hibbs. He's written the 7 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,040 S1: book called Called to Take a Bold Stand. I absolutely 8 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,520 S1: love this book because it reminds us that in Christ 9 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,480 S1: all things pass away. All things become new, that we 10 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,240 S1: are standing for his truth, that we have a new nature. 11 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,080 S1: Because of him, we should be living boldly. But far 12 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,120 S1: too often we retreat out of fear from cultural blowback. 13 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,600 S1: So I want to encourage all of us to just 14 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,800 S1: stand up for Christ, to be unashamed of who we 15 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,120 S1: are in him, and to go into a culture that's 16 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,600 S1: telling us in no uncertain terms. They're lost and they're hurting. 17 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,760 S1: So if you'd like a copy of Pastor Hibbs new 18 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,400 S1: book called Call to Take a Bold Stand, just give 19 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,720 S1: a gift of any amount by calling eight, seven, seven. 20 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,680 S1: Janet 58. We are listener supported radio. And this is 21 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,640 S1: my way of saying thank you. So that number again 22 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,200 S1: is 877 Janet 58. Or you can go online in 23 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,090 S1: the market with Janet dot o r g. Go to 24 00:01:02,130 --> 00:01:04,210 S1: the bottom of the page. There's the cover of Pastor 25 00:01:04,209 --> 00:01:06,690 S1: Jack's book. Click it on. Give a gift and you'll 26 00:01:06,690 --> 00:01:08,209 S1: be good to go. And we'll send you a copy 27 00:01:08,209 --> 00:01:10,050 S1: as a way of saying thank you. Don't forget, you 28 00:01:10,050 --> 00:01:12,530 S1: can also become a partial partner. Those are people who 29 00:01:12,530 --> 00:01:15,170 S1: give every single month at a level of their own choosing. 30 00:01:15,209 --> 00:01:17,170 S1: My way of saying thank you to the partial partners 31 00:01:17,170 --> 00:01:18,770 S1: is to make sure you get a copy of each 32 00:01:18,810 --> 00:01:21,649 S1: month's truth tool, and you get our weekly newsletter, which 33 00:01:21,690 --> 00:01:24,290 S1: includes some of my writing and an audio piece only 34 00:01:24,290 --> 00:01:26,770 S1: for my partial partners. So whether it's a one time 35 00:01:26,770 --> 00:01:28,610 S1: gift or you want to be an ongoing giver and 36 00:01:28,610 --> 00:01:30,929 S1: become a partial partner, that's your call. But I want 37 00:01:30,930 --> 00:01:34,090 S1: to thank you in advance. Eight seven, seven Janet 58. 38 00:01:34,090 --> 00:01:37,330 S1: Or online at In the Market with Janet Parshall. Now, 39 00:01:37,330 --> 00:01:39,170 S1: please enjoy the broadcast. 40 00:01:40,930 --> 00:01:42,490 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 41 00:01:42,810 --> 00:01:45,090 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 42 00:01:45,170 --> 00:01:47,250 S4: Americans worshiping government over God. 43 00:01:47,570 --> 00:01:50,970 S5: Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years. 44 00:01:50,970 --> 00:01:53,770 S4: The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated a. 45 00:01:55,970 --> 00:01:56,410 S6: Truce. 46 00:02:08,180 --> 00:02:10,860 S1: Hi friends. Welcome to In the market with Janet partial. 47 00:02:10,900 --> 00:02:13,500 S1: Happy Monday to you. Hope you all had a fabulous 48 00:02:13,500 --> 00:02:16,859 S1: Palm Sunday and really a sobering is it not? If 49 00:02:16,860 --> 00:02:18,820 S1: you walk through life with the Bible in one hand 50 00:02:18,820 --> 00:02:20,660 S1: and the newspaper in the other. Pay more attention to 51 00:02:20,740 --> 00:02:23,300 S1: attention to the Bible this week rather than the newspaper. 52 00:02:23,500 --> 00:02:25,620 S1: We are in what's often referred to as Holy Week. 53 00:02:25,620 --> 00:02:27,620 S1: And if you just read the Gospels and you see 54 00:02:27,620 --> 00:02:30,780 S1: what happened from the time they were shouting Hosanna to 55 00:02:30,820 --> 00:02:33,860 S1: the time they were shouting crucify him! So much of 56 00:02:33,860 --> 00:02:36,540 S1: what's written in the Gospels takes place during this week. 57 00:02:36,980 --> 00:02:39,619 S1: It's powerful. And when you start thinking about the fact 58 00:02:39,620 --> 00:02:43,420 S1: that Christ became sin for us, let those words sink in. 59 00:02:43,460 --> 00:02:46,380 S1: Those are the words of Scripture. He who knew no 60 00:02:46,380 --> 00:02:49,580 S1: sin became sin for us. The older I get, the 61 00:02:49,580 --> 00:02:51,739 S1: more I have a difficult time reading that without bursting 62 00:02:51,740 --> 00:02:55,579 S1: into tears. He was unblemished, the unblemished Lamb of God 63 00:02:55,740 --> 00:02:57,740 S1: that takes away the sins of the world. He didn't 64 00:02:57,830 --> 00:02:59,310 S1: have to die. He could have walked away. He could 65 00:02:59,350 --> 00:03:01,549 S1: have said, I'm not interested in doing this. This is 66 00:03:01,550 --> 00:03:05,470 S1: excruciating physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. I mean, what must 67 00:03:05,470 --> 00:03:07,390 S1: it be like to take on the sins of the world? 68 00:03:07,710 --> 00:03:09,750 S1: And Eddie did that. So the next time you hear 69 00:03:09,750 --> 00:03:12,110 S1: that voice of the accuser that calls you a loser 70 00:03:12,110 --> 00:03:14,470 S1: or a failure, or you didn't do this right, or 71 00:03:14,470 --> 00:03:16,430 S1: you'll never be forgiven because of that, I want you 72 00:03:16,430 --> 00:03:18,990 S1: to stop and I want you to remember that's not 73 00:03:18,990 --> 00:03:22,790 S1: coming from the one who's the unconditional lover of your soul, 74 00:03:23,190 --> 00:03:26,710 S1: your hearing. Instead, you should be hearing instead from the 75 00:03:26,710 --> 00:03:28,589 S1: one that said, I love you so much. I lay 76 00:03:28,590 --> 00:03:31,110 S1: down my life for you. Come to me, all ye 77 00:03:31,150 --> 00:03:34,109 S1: who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give 78 00:03:34,110 --> 00:03:37,750 S1: you rest. Remember, if we confess our sins, he is faithful. 79 00:03:37,790 --> 00:03:40,430 S1: He's just. He'll forgive us our sins and to cleanse 80 00:03:40,430 --> 00:03:43,070 S1: us from all unrighteousness. It's a whole lot more than 81 00:03:43,110 --> 00:03:46,910 S1: bunnies and baskets. It was about a cross and a 82 00:03:46,910 --> 00:03:49,830 S1: tomb that remains empty to this day. I want to 83 00:03:49,870 --> 00:03:52,270 S1: encourage you. It's today and tomorrow. And then just like that, 84 00:03:52,270 --> 00:03:54,589 S1: it's April. And so you got two days to get 85 00:03:54,590 --> 00:03:57,880 S1: pastor Jack Hibbs book called to Take a bold stand. 86 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,360 S1: This is about being bold in a wicked and perverse generation. 87 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,560 S1: You can hear me talk about that. That's because Scripture 88 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,000 S1: talks about that. Paul uses those words. Christ uses those words. 89 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,360 S1: And this is where we've been called such a time 90 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,160 S1: as this. So you want to make sure that every 91 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,360 S1: minute that you breathe, you are letting the world shine. 92 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,800 S1: Know that you are shining like a light. That's what 93 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,360 S1: the Bible says. In those same passages, both Paul and 94 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,159 S1: Jesus refer to us as being lights in this wicked 95 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,000 S1: and perverse generation. So it's my way of saying thank you. 96 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,240 S1: We're listener supported radio. It means so much when you 97 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,520 S1: give financially, and it helps us keep going forward in 98 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,440 S1: the right direction. So just call 877 Janet five eight, say, hey, 99 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,359 S1: I'd like a copy of Jack Hibbs book. That's all 100 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,440 S1: you have to say. It's called call to take a 101 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,320 S1: Bold Stand. If you can't remember the title, just say 102 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,840 S1: Jack Hibbs. And that's my way of saying thank you. 103 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:44,920 S1: When you financially support the program, you can do it 104 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,880 S1: online in the market with Janet dot o r g. 105 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,320 S1: Slide to the bottom of the front page. There's the 106 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,120 S1: picture of the book. Click it on, make your donation 107 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:53,880 S1: and we'll get it out the door to you. A 108 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,520 S1: partial partner is someone who gives every month at their 109 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,520 S1: level of own shoes, at their own choosing. We give 110 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:00,960 S1: you the truth tool every month, and in addition, every 111 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,480 S1: week you get a newsletter from me that contains my 112 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,760 S1: writing and an audio piece. So prayerfully consider what you'd 113 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,080 S1: like to do to support the program if it's been 114 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,640 S1: a blessing to you. Eight seven, seven Janet 58. Or 115 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,760 S1: online and in the market with Janet dot o r 116 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,080 S1: g well, things are continuing in Iran. There has not 117 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,120 S1: been a regime change. Yes. Those strait the Strait of Hormuz. 118 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,000 S1: Did you see what you paid for gas this weekend? 119 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:23,880 S1: I looked at my husband and I said to him, 120 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,240 S1: you know what? I'll sacrifice and pay more at the 121 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,960 S1: pump if it'll move the Iranian people toward freedom and 122 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,480 S1: liberty for me, I'm willing to wait this out. I 123 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,600 S1: hope you have the same attitude as I do. But 124 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,040 S1: the clock is ticking, and Trump has got a lot 125 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,480 S1: to say about negotiations and who's sticking to the table 126 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,040 S1: and who's not. Here's more from my friend Chris Mitchell 127 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:42,160 S1: from CBN news. 128 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,840 S7: President Trump told the Financial Times Sunday I want to 129 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:50,279 S7: take control of Iranian oil, maybe take control of Kharg Island. 130 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,680 S7: That means we will need to be on Kharg for 131 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,289 S7: a while. I don't think the Iranians have any defense there. 132 00:05:56,330 --> 00:06:00,130 S7: We will take the island very easily. Iran exports most 133 00:06:00,130 --> 00:06:04,210 S7: of its oil from Kharg Island. It's Iran's main economic engine. 134 00:06:04,529 --> 00:06:08,730 S7: Centcom announced the amphibious assault ship. The USS Tripoli has 135 00:06:08,730 --> 00:06:13,330 S7: arrived in its area of responsibility. The 3500 U.S. Marines 136 00:06:13,330 --> 00:06:16,970 S7: on board are trained as a rapid response strike force. 137 00:06:17,410 --> 00:06:21,170 S7: Iran's parliament speaker warned the U.S. against the ground invasion 138 00:06:21,370 --> 00:06:24,969 S7: and threatened to send American troops on fire. He also 139 00:06:25,010 --> 00:06:28,610 S7: warned Iran will increase its attacks on U.S. allies in 140 00:06:28,610 --> 00:06:32,450 S7: the region, and President Trump is weighing a military operation 141 00:06:32,450 --> 00:06:38,810 S7: to extract nearly £1,000 of uranium from Iran, according to U.S. officials. 142 00:06:38,930 --> 00:06:42,529 S7: That would be a complex and risky mission that would 143 00:06:42,529 --> 00:06:47,250 S7: likely put American forces inside the country for days or longer. 144 00:06:47,650 --> 00:06:52,650 S7: The president told reporters military action and negotiations are taking 145 00:06:52,650 --> 00:06:54,380 S7: place at the same time. 146 00:06:54,420 --> 00:06:57,900 S8: But they're very good. Moving along very nicely. And they've 147 00:06:57,900 --> 00:07:00,979 S8: destroyed a lot of additional targets today. The Navy has gone. 148 00:07:00,980 --> 00:07:03,580 S8: The Air Force has gone. We know that. But we 149 00:07:03,620 --> 00:07:06,820 S8: destroyed many, many targets today. It was a big day 150 00:07:07,900 --> 00:07:11,300 S8: and we are negotiating with them directly and indirectly. 151 00:07:11,340 --> 00:07:14,540 S7: Trump also said he believes a measure of regime change 152 00:07:14,580 --> 00:07:16,300 S7: has already taken place. 153 00:07:16,340 --> 00:07:21,500 S8: If you look already, because the one regime was decimated, destroyed, 154 00:07:21,540 --> 00:07:25,500 S8: they were all dead. The next regime is mostly dead. 155 00:07:26,420 --> 00:07:28,860 S8: And the third regime, we're dealing with different people than 156 00:07:28,860 --> 00:07:31,220 S8: anybody has dealt with before. It's a whole different group 157 00:07:31,220 --> 00:07:34,820 S8: of people. So I would consider that regime change. 158 00:07:35,660 --> 00:07:39,260 S7: Over the weekend, exiled Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi delivered an 159 00:07:39,260 --> 00:07:40,820 S7: address in Texas. 160 00:07:40,860 --> 00:07:44,980 S9: Can you imagine Iran going from death to America to 161 00:07:45,020 --> 00:07:46,460 S9: God bless America? 162 00:07:46,820 --> 00:07:50,980 S7: Speaking to the conservative Political Action Committee, Pahlavi spoke of 163 00:07:50,980 --> 00:07:53,630 S7: a brighter possible future for Iran. 164 00:07:53,670 --> 00:07:56,550 S9: In a country with the fastest rate of growth of 165 00:07:56,550 --> 00:08:02,590 S9: Christianity in the world. The regime and its IRGC stormed 166 00:08:02,590 --> 00:08:08,990 S9: into and ransacked underground house churches, detain and torture pastors, 167 00:08:08,990 --> 00:08:15,790 S9: and persecute and execute evangelists and Christian converts. This is 168 00:08:15,790 --> 00:08:20,150 S9: the Islamic Republic, not the true Iran. 169 00:08:20,590 --> 00:08:23,390 S7: For now, the current leader of Iran is thanking top 170 00:08:23,390 --> 00:08:27,550 S7: religious leaders and paramilitary groups in Iraq for their support. 171 00:08:27,950 --> 00:08:31,830 S7: And the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad is warning U.S. citizens 172 00:08:31,830 --> 00:08:35,990 S7: to leave the country immediately amid the threats from militias 173 00:08:35,990 --> 00:08:39,950 S7: backed by Iran. In the meantime, Tehran's mayor sees the 174 00:08:39,950 --> 00:08:43,349 S7: war advancing the goals of Shiite Islam. 175 00:08:43,390 --> 00:08:46,469 S10: All the American predictions have gone to ruin. Therefore, I 176 00:08:46,470 --> 00:08:49,469 S10: believe that post-war Iran will be at such an exalted 177 00:08:49,470 --> 00:08:53,160 S10: peak that it will prepare humanity for the coming of Mahdi. 178 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,040 S7: The Mahdi is the Islamic Messianic figure who they believe 179 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:02,200 S7: will appear at the end of time. Chris Mitchell CBN news, Jerusalem. 180 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,079 S1: Oh, how many times have we talked about that on 181 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,959 S1: this program again? This is all part of their eschatology. 182 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:11,839 S1: This destruction is necessary for their Messiah, the Mahdi, to 183 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,240 S1: make his appearance before the entire globe is islamicized not defiled. 184 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,880 S1: That's not going to happen. But this is all part 185 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:19,920 S1: of their thinking, which is why they can't give up 186 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,520 S1: their nuclear capabilities. You need that to bring about your Messiah. 187 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:25,880 S1: Isn't it interesting when you walk through life with the 188 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,320 S1: Bible in one hand and the newspaper in the other? 189 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,360 S1: That regime is in darkness, but I believe the people 190 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,679 S1: who live in darkness can see a great light. And 191 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:49,240 S1: his name is Jesus. Back after this. The Bible calls 192 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,170 S1: us to be bold and courageous for the cause of 193 00:09:51,170 --> 00:09:53,370 S1: the cross. But too often we retreat because of fear 194 00:09:53,370 --> 00:09:56,209 S1: of cultural blowback. That's why I've chosen call to take 195 00:09:56,210 --> 00:09:58,730 S1: a bold stand as this month's truth tool discover how 196 00:09:58,730 --> 00:10:01,929 S1: to overcome the fear of intimidation or persecution. As for 197 00:10:01,929 --> 00:10:03,890 S1: your copy of call to take a bold stand when 198 00:10:03,890 --> 00:10:05,850 S1: you give a gift of any amount to in the market, 199 00:10:05,850 --> 00:10:10,530 S1: call 877. Janet 58. That's 877. Janet 58. Or go 200 00:10:10,530 --> 00:10:12,770 S1: to in the market with Janet dot o r g. 201 00:10:15,330 --> 00:10:17,650 S1: So you and I are called to think critically and biblically. 202 00:10:17,690 --> 00:10:19,890 S1: I've said it before. I'll say it again. That is 203 00:10:19,890 --> 00:10:22,130 S1: not a multiple choice test. As a follower of Christ, 204 00:10:22,130 --> 00:10:24,570 S1: it is a both. And you come to faith in Christ. 205 00:10:24,610 --> 00:10:27,250 S1: Your heart is transformed. Your mind is renewed. So you 206 00:10:27,250 --> 00:10:29,410 S1: and I, as we grow up in him and we 207 00:10:29,410 --> 00:10:32,209 S1: get off that diet of milk and get some spiritual 208 00:10:32,210 --> 00:10:34,690 S1: meat on our bones, some heft in our bones need 209 00:10:34,730 --> 00:10:37,570 S1: to be thinking critically as well as biblically about the 210 00:10:37,570 --> 00:10:39,770 S1: world around us. Now, I give you that as a 211 00:10:39,770 --> 00:10:42,330 S1: backdrop because we're going to enter into a conversation about 212 00:10:42,330 --> 00:10:45,530 S1: artificial intelligence. No, I am not a student of the 213 00:10:45,570 --> 00:10:49,540 S1: live in caves with canned goods and guns, philosophy, technology 214 00:10:49,580 --> 00:10:52,819 S1: generally is value neutral. I don't think it is in 215 00:10:52,820 --> 00:10:54,819 S1: the case of AI. We'll get into that more if 216 00:10:54,820 --> 00:10:57,380 S1: time allows this hour. But I do think that we 217 00:10:57,380 --> 00:10:59,540 S1: have to be cautious about thinking, oh, look, it's the 218 00:10:59,540 --> 00:11:01,500 S1: shiny new thing. And the way it's being sold to 219 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:03,900 S1: us initially is it's going to make your life oh 220 00:11:03,900 --> 00:11:06,740 S1: so easy. Well, maybe that worked for George Jetson when 221 00:11:06,740 --> 00:11:09,580 S1: you were watching Saturday morning cartoons, but I'm not quite 222 00:11:09,580 --> 00:11:12,540 S1: sure that's the case. There's a lot of things to 223 00:11:12,540 --> 00:11:16,100 S1: be thinking about when it comes to AI. Our fellow 224 00:11:16,140 --> 00:11:19,660 S1: human trying to flourish, jobs being replaced. Whether or not 225 00:11:19,660 --> 00:11:22,220 S1: this dummies down your brain. A bunch of studies coming 226 00:11:22,220 --> 00:11:24,340 S1: out of Ivy League schools said, yep, a lot of 227 00:11:24,340 --> 00:11:27,220 S1: evidence to that end. And as my friend Andrew MacDiarmid 228 00:11:27,220 --> 00:11:29,420 S1: writes in a recent op ed that showed up in 229 00:11:29,420 --> 00:11:33,260 S1: the Chicago Tribune, it kills creativity. Let me tell you 230 00:11:33,260 --> 00:11:34,820 S1: who Andrew is, because we get to spend the rest 231 00:11:34,820 --> 00:11:37,260 S1: of the hour with him. He is director of podcasting 232 00:11:37,260 --> 00:11:40,140 S1: and a senior fellow at Discovery Institute. He's also a 233 00:11:40,140 --> 00:11:43,860 S1: contributing writer to Mind Matters. He produces ID the Future, 234 00:11:43,860 --> 00:11:46,020 S1: which is a podcast for the center for Science and 235 00:11:46,020 --> 00:11:50,630 S1: Culture that presents the case research and implications of intelligent 236 00:11:50,630 --> 00:11:53,750 S1: design and explores the debate over evolution. He writes and 237 00:11:53,750 --> 00:11:57,110 S1: speaks regularly on the impact of technology on human living. 238 00:11:57,150 --> 00:12:00,390 S1: He's got a master's in teaching from Seattle Pacific University 239 00:12:00,670 --> 00:12:02,910 S1: and a BA in English and Creative writing from the 240 00:12:02,910 --> 00:12:07,670 S1: University of Washington, which speaks, Andrew, to your unbelievable abilities 241 00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:09,710 S1: as a poet, which should be in your CV. That's 242 00:12:09,710 --> 00:12:11,510 S1: not part of what I just read, but it's certainly 243 00:12:11,510 --> 00:12:13,790 S1: a part of who you are. I'm thrilled you're here. 244 00:12:13,790 --> 00:12:16,190 S1: First of all, kudos for getting a piece in the 245 00:12:16,190 --> 00:12:20,150 S1: Chicago Tribune. Doesn't happen to just anybody. But this comes 246 00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:22,470 S1: out of the passion, the fire that's in your bones 247 00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:24,670 S1: about all of this tech stuff. Tell me more about that. 248 00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:26,069 S1: Where did this interest come from? 249 00:12:27,230 --> 00:12:30,350 S11: Yeah. Thank you. Janet. Good to be on with you. Well, 250 00:12:30,390 --> 00:12:33,030 S11: you know, I've been I love technology. First, let me 251 00:12:33,030 --> 00:12:35,630 S11: start with that. I mean, I am among the first 252 00:12:35,630 --> 00:12:38,830 S11: to go and get the new gadgets, at least historically. 253 00:12:38,870 --> 00:12:41,910 S11: You know, um, I mean, I, I love this stuff. 254 00:12:41,950 --> 00:12:45,510 S11: You know, I do love technology. So I, I have 255 00:12:45,510 --> 00:12:49,439 S11: studied this from someone who, who, who loves these things. 256 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,199 S11: Not as someone who, you know, advocates that we run 257 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,719 S11: to the woods and, and, uh, never use it again. Uh, 258 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,720 S11: but really, it was my kids that got me into it. 259 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,000 S11: You know, I was experiencing technology and trying to wrestle 260 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,920 S11: with how I could use it best. But then I 261 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,800 S11: saw my kids. I have three daughters and I have 262 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,360 S11: a stepson as well. And I was watching them grow 263 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,600 S11: and I'm thinking, okay, what can I do? How do 264 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,880 S11: I teach them to manage this and not be overwhelmed 265 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,400 S11: by this as it's going to impact them in ways 266 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,839 S11: we can't even imagine yet, you know? And so that 267 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,600 S11: got me started on a journey of researching how we 268 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,280 S11: got to our technological society, uh, where we're at today, 269 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,840 S11: the rise of big tech and, uh, and just seeking 270 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,480 S11: an answer to, okay, where did this come from? How 271 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,600 S11: can we handle it now? You know, where do we 272 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:39,360 S11: go from here? 273 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,240 S1: Yeah. Well, I would be getting emails if I didn't 274 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,000 S1: ask you this question. So as a father who's looking 275 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:46,960 S1: well to the ways of his household and the fact 276 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,560 S1: that you do a deep dive into this. Do you, 277 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,160 S1: in your household limit, for example, screen time? Do you 278 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,439 S1: have safeguards on the devices your kids use? 279 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,280 S11: We do. Yes, yes. And you get the grumbles and 280 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,760 S11: the complaints, but you also see the fruit of some 281 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,160 S11: of those decisions. And it's good fruit, you know. Um, 282 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,560 S11: and we practice it in our house. You know, we 283 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,040 S11: on Sundays day of rest, you know, no screens at all. 284 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,200 S11: And on other days, we, we, we have limited opportunity 285 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,680 S11: to be around them. And, uh, my wife and I 286 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,000 S11: both practice it. You know, we, we don't want to 287 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,040 S11: have our phone in one hand and telling the kids 288 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,960 S11: what to do, you know, uh, across the room, sort of. 289 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,280 S11: We all want to live this out. And it gets 290 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,440 S11: hard at times to tuck that phone away and just 291 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,800 S11: be physically separate from it or not. Just relax on, 292 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,000 S11: on YouTube or something on television at the end of 293 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,320 S11: the day. But we're looking, we're, we're looking for ways to, 294 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,800 S11: you know, to be different, to do something different, whether 295 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,290 S11: it's a game or, just going outside with the kids, 296 00:14:47,290 --> 00:14:49,970 S11: drawing a picture with them, getting into their world and 297 00:14:49,970 --> 00:14:53,250 S11: showing them that screens are not necessary all hours of 298 00:14:53,250 --> 00:14:53,690 S11: the day. 299 00:14:53,970 --> 00:14:56,010 S1: Andrew, thank you so much for answering that question. I 300 00:14:56,010 --> 00:14:59,090 S1: think it helps other mothers and fathers to realize that, A, 301 00:14:59,090 --> 00:15:01,330 S1: they're not alone, that the grumblings are not unique to 302 00:15:01,370 --> 00:15:04,330 S1: their household, and that there are also creative ways to 303 00:15:04,370 --> 00:15:06,130 S1: manage this. And it doesn't come out of fear. By 304 00:15:06,130 --> 00:15:08,930 S1: the way, it comes out of an abundance of caution 305 00:15:08,930 --> 00:15:11,730 S1: with the technology. And now that it's been around for 306 00:15:11,730 --> 00:15:14,850 S1: a while now, we're starting to get overwhelming evidence that 307 00:15:14,850 --> 00:15:18,810 S1: some cautions must be put into place. And so thank 308 00:15:18,810 --> 00:15:21,010 S1: you for sharing that. Maybe it'll serve as a as 309 00:15:21,050 --> 00:15:23,050 S1: an encouragement for other moms and dads who are trying 310 00:15:23,050 --> 00:15:25,050 S1: to figure out how to handle this, this screen time, 311 00:15:25,050 --> 00:15:27,610 S1: by the way. And therein lies one of the challenges, 312 00:15:27,610 --> 00:15:30,330 S1: which is the fact that it's now a universal in 313 00:15:30,330 --> 00:15:33,250 S1: the human condition. If you have a device, you all 314 00:15:33,290 --> 00:15:35,490 S1: become addicted to it. It is hard to put it down. 315 00:15:35,650 --> 00:15:37,970 S1: Why in the world would putting down a device that 316 00:15:37,970 --> 00:15:40,090 S1: shows you pretty pictures and words, would that be hard 317 00:15:40,090 --> 00:15:42,570 S1: to put down? But when you begin to understand that 318 00:15:42,570 --> 00:15:44,780 S1: very often the minds behind it are trying to do 319 00:15:44,780 --> 00:15:47,900 S1: just that. Create an addiction, a sense that you are 320 00:15:47,900 --> 00:15:50,580 S1: alone without it, that you are going to be left 321 00:15:50,580 --> 00:15:52,860 S1: behind for some information, that you're not going to have 322 00:15:52,860 --> 00:15:55,740 S1: the latest, dare I say, cat photo? And you need 323 00:15:55,740 --> 00:15:58,140 S1: to keep that that phone up all the time. So 324 00:15:58,140 --> 00:16:01,140 S1: that's my first caution is that this is plan. This 325 00:16:01,140 --> 00:16:04,060 S1: is why I could say from so much technology value neutral, 326 00:16:04,060 --> 00:16:06,540 S1: it's user dependent. Not in this case. This has been 327 00:16:06,540 --> 00:16:09,780 S1: designed with some purposeful sand traps. Which takes me to 328 00:16:09,820 --> 00:16:12,860 S1: your piece that you wrote in the Chicago Tribune. Again, kudos. 329 00:16:12,860 --> 00:16:15,540 S1: That's that's a great newspaper to have an opinion piece 330 00:16:15,540 --> 00:16:17,900 S1: published in. But you really got me thinking when I 331 00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:22,420 S1: read it, because you drew the distinction between creativity and amalgamation. 332 00:16:22,580 --> 00:16:26,300 S1: Talk to me about the human condition and our ability 333 00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:28,060 S1: to create. When you stop and think about it, it's 334 00:16:28,060 --> 00:16:29,300 S1: pretty profound. 335 00:16:30,580 --> 00:16:34,020 S11: Yeah, yeah, that's one of the things I realized was, 336 00:16:34,020 --> 00:16:36,060 S11: was at the heart of the issue. You know, we're, 337 00:16:36,100 --> 00:16:38,780 S11: we're seeing a lot of material coming out of these 338 00:16:38,820 --> 00:16:43,830 S11: AI models, you know, pictures, videos, songs, even, uh, you know, 339 00:16:43,870 --> 00:16:46,470 S11: and it's giving us pages and pages of answers to 340 00:16:46,510 --> 00:16:49,510 S11: anything we desire to ask it about. And we see 341 00:16:49,510 --> 00:16:53,350 S11: that as creativity, but it actually isn't, you know, and 342 00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:55,430 S11: I started digging deeper, you know, as you know, I've 343 00:16:55,430 --> 00:16:58,550 S11: been on this research journey of technology and I, I 344 00:16:58,710 --> 00:17:03,030 S11: found a Russian philosopher who, who loved the Lord, one 345 00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:08,390 S11: of the most christocentric philosophers since, uh, Kierkegaard. And he 346 00:17:08,430 --> 00:17:11,909 S11: had some answers to why creativity is such a unique 347 00:17:11,950 --> 00:17:15,909 S11: thing to human beings, and why AI has nothing to 348 00:17:15,910 --> 00:17:19,030 S11: do with it, because it dwells in the world of necessity. 349 00:17:19,030 --> 00:17:20,590 S11: So maybe we can get into that more. 350 00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:23,070 S1: I was going to say now, in your spare time, 351 00:17:23,070 --> 00:17:26,190 S1: you're a radio professional because that's the perfect tease. Well, 352 00:17:26,190 --> 00:17:28,229 S1: I can't wait to hear what this Russian philosopher who 353 00:17:28,230 --> 00:17:31,270 S1: had a christocentric worldview had to say. So we'll return 354 00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:33,710 S1: and find out more. This was also very much in 355 00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:36,070 S1: Andrew's piece that showed up in the Chicago Tribune. And 356 00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:38,270 S1: I've got other articles I want you to refer to 357 00:17:38,310 --> 00:17:40,870 S1: that Andrew has written great stuff. More with Andrew right 358 00:17:40,869 --> 00:17:59,040 S1: after this. We're visiting with Andrew MacDiarmid, who's the director 359 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,040 S1: of podcasting and a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute. 360 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,520 S1: He's a terrific writer and really is into this tech 361 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,360 S1: stuff big time. And he wrote an op ed that 362 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,720 S1: showed up in the Chicago Tribune recently, where a lot 363 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,439 S1: of his thinking was based on the work of a 364 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,600 S1: Russian philosopher who, as Andrew noted just before the break, 365 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,680 S1: had a biblical worldview. And he really and truly picked 366 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,160 S1: up on some of his ideas about human creativity. You know, 367 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,400 S1: we throw those words around, but when you stop and 368 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,119 S1: think about it, and we often talk on this program 369 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,760 S1: about human exceptionalism, we thank our friend Wesley Smith for 370 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,480 S1: being with us on a regular basis. So the hierarchy 371 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,719 S1: in God's creation is mankind. The only part made in 372 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,119 S1: his image. And human creativity is very much a hallmark 373 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,690 S1: of that. AI cannot do that. So introduce us if 374 00:18:42,690 --> 00:18:44,850 S1: you would. First, because I think this is important. Andrew, 375 00:18:44,850 --> 00:18:47,570 S1: to this Russian philosopher, what was his name? And tell 376 00:18:47,609 --> 00:18:48,570 S1: me something about him. 377 00:18:49,650 --> 00:18:52,730 S11: Yeah, absolutely. So he was he was a philosopher and 378 00:18:52,730 --> 00:18:57,609 S11: theologian who emphasized the significance of human, spiritual and creative freedom. 379 00:18:57,850 --> 00:19:00,689 S11: This was at a time when political freedom, you know, 380 00:19:00,730 --> 00:19:03,930 S11: was in peril all over the world. And he said, 381 00:19:03,930 --> 00:19:07,250 S11: it's not just about political freedom. We have other freedoms here. 382 00:19:07,250 --> 00:19:10,450 S11: And one of those was creative freedom. He saw human 383 00:19:10,450 --> 00:19:14,970 S11: beings as spiritual creators trapped in a deterministic world. He 384 00:19:14,970 --> 00:19:18,530 S11: called that world the world of necessity. And I love 385 00:19:18,530 --> 00:19:21,770 S11: this setup because it's a great way to think about AI. 386 00:19:22,330 --> 00:19:26,890 S11: You know, Berdyaev considered creativity a divine calling. It was 387 00:19:26,890 --> 00:19:29,210 S11: one day, one way that we could rise above the 388 00:19:29,210 --> 00:19:33,730 S11: world of necessity and enter into this world of freedom. And, 389 00:19:33,770 --> 00:19:36,890 S11: you know, he he was a dissident. He, he was 390 00:19:36,890 --> 00:19:41,260 S11: expelled from Soviet Russia in 1922 for. For these ideas, 391 00:19:41,260 --> 00:19:44,900 S11: and for clinging to Christianity and encouraging that in his 392 00:19:45,100 --> 00:19:48,419 S11: in his fellow citizens, and so spent much of his 393 00:19:48,420 --> 00:19:53,500 S11: life outside of Russia. But he just considered creativity to 394 00:19:53,540 --> 00:19:57,379 S11: be so important to our life. And, you know, wanting 395 00:19:57,380 --> 00:20:00,220 S11: to connect people to that freedom. Uh, the way he 396 00:20:00,260 --> 00:20:03,020 S11: sets up, sets it up is it's the world of 397 00:20:03,020 --> 00:20:05,939 S11: necessity and the world of freedom. So the world of 398 00:20:05,940 --> 00:20:09,340 S11: necessity is our fallen world. You know, it's the world 399 00:20:09,340 --> 00:20:13,300 S11: that Paul says in Romans eight is an eager expectation 400 00:20:13,300 --> 00:20:16,620 S11: for its liberation from bondage and decay. And, you know, 401 00:20:16,660 --> 00:20:20,540 S11: we we all know this world. It's characterized by determinism, uh, 402 00:20:20,540 --> 00:20:30,139 S11: by deformation, division, alienation, captivity, passivity, uh, impersonal forces, brokenness, uh, 403 00:20:30,140 --> 00:20:33,620 S11: you know, mechanization on and on and on. And AI 404 00:20:34,140 --> 00:20:38,060 S11: is rooted in this world of necessity. And that's, that's 405 00:20:38,150 --> 00:20:42,750 S11: one reason it cannot create. It is bound by the 406 00:20:42,750 --> 00:20:45,909 S11: inputs that we give it the code, the training data, 407 00:20:45,950 --> 00:20:49,390 S11: the prompts. It has no imagination of itself. So it's 408 00:20:49,390 --> 00:20:53,190 S11: wholly lacking in the freedom from which true creativity emerges. 409 00:20:53,470 --> 00:20:55,629 S1: Wow. Okay, so let me linger here because I think 410 00:20:55,630 --> 00:20:58,149 S1: this is fascinating. First of all, the linkage to creativity 411 00:20:58,150 --> 00:21:01,350 S1: and freedom in and of itself, I think is worthy 412 00:21:01,350 --> 00:21:04,590 S1: of a deep dive. But I also am interested in 413 00:21:04,590 --> 00:21:07,670 S1: the idea that if we are creators as human beings, 414 00:21:07,670 --> 00:21:10,510 S1: and we most assuredly are, but for argument's sake, why 415 00:21:10,510 --> 00:21:13,270 S1: is it that we are then taken captive? Book of 416 00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:17,230 S1: Colossians so easily when it comes to AI, which is 417 00:21:17,230 --> 00:21:21,030 S1: simply the rearranging. It is not the creating. It is 418 00:21:21,030 --> 00:21:24,150 S1: simply rearranging what someone else had to put in. And 419 00:21:24,150 --> 00:21:26,710 S1: then they can come up with various like a Rubik's cubes, 420 00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:29,070 S1: they can come up with various iterations, but they're never 421 00:21:29,070 --> 00:21:32,310 S1: really creating. Why do we not recognize that as a 422 00:21:32,310 --> 00:21:34,909 S1: human being, looking at something that's not creating but replicating 423 00:21:34,910 --> 00:21:35,869 S1: and rearranging? 424 00:21:36,630 --> 00:21:41,280 S11: Yeah, Well, ever since they, they, they made AI with 425 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,280 S11: the ability to converse, you know, whether it's through text 426 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,439 S11: or speech. Um, you know, that has started to trick 427 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,920 S11: us more than ever because we, we recognize, you know, 428 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,399 S11: the words coming at us. We see that as a 429 00:21:55,400 --> 00:22:00,360 S11: pattern normally ascribed to an intelligent being. Uh, normally something 430 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,679 S11: we would call conversation. And so we, you know, we're, 431 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,840 S11: we're tempted to enter into that conversation. And lo and behold, this, 432 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,119 S11: this algorithm governing AI can then take what we say 433 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,320 S11: and serve something back, take something else. We say serve 434 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,800 S11: something back. And so you get the illusion of conversation. 435 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,919 S11: You get the illusion of being communion with a mind. Um, and, 436 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,359 S11: but it's not the case at all. You know, someone 437 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,719 S11: might say, well, look at everything it's spitting out, you know, 438 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,080 S11: all these images and videos and songs and answers. Isn't 439 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:37,409 S11: that isn't that creativity? Isn't that something to behold. Well, 440 00:22:37,410 --> 00:22:39,609 S11: it's not coming from a brain and it's not coming 441 00:22:39,609 --> 00:22:43,490 S11: from true intelligence. Uh, all that's happening is that AI 442 00:22:43,530 --> 00:22:48,050 S11: has gotten really good and really fast at analyzing training 443 00:22:48,050 --> 00:22:51,170 S11: data and learning from trial and error in order to 444 00:22:51,210 --> 00:22:55,970 S11: identify patterns. And once it recognizes patterns in data or 445 00:22:55,970 --> 00:22:59,210 S11: in our queries or in events that it's studying, it 446 00:22:59,210 --> 00:23:02,050 S11: can serve up what is likely to satisfy a query. 447 00:23:02,490 --> 00:23:05,409 S11: For example, AI doesn't understand the word cat, right? It 448 00:23:05,410 --> 00:23:07,929 S11: has no concept of a cat because it doesn't have 449 00:23:07,930 --> 00:23:10,850 S11: a brain like we do, but it will respond with 450 00:23:10,850 --> 00:23:13,570 S11: the word cat. It will give you the word cat 451 00:23:13,690 --> 00:23:16,850 S11: when it recognizes patterns in a query and in its 452 00:23:16,850 --> 00:23:20,450 S11: training data that make it predict the word cat is 453 00:23:20,450 --> 00:23:24,010 S11: a much likelier response than the word dog or horse. 454 00:23:24,050 --> 00:23:28,810 S11: For your question or your query. So it's serving things up, 455 00:23:28,810 --> 00:23:32,490 S11: but with no understanding of what it's serving up. And 456 00:23:32,490 --> 00:23:35,850 S11: when we see the results of this pattern recognition and 457 00:23:35,850 --> 00:23:39,730 S11: prediction process. It's happening in real time, and we recognize 458 00:23:39,730 --> 00:23:42,850 S11: that as something like a human conversation. Even though it's 459 00:23:42,850 --> 00:23:45,450 S11: coming from a very different process than the way we 460 00:23:45,450 --> 00:23:49,410 S11: think and communicate. So it's the illusion of conversation, the 461 00:23:49,410 --> 00:23:52,730 S11: illusion of creativity. But there is a price to pay 462 00:23:52,730 --> 00:23:55,490 S11: if we fall into that illusion. Janet. 463 00:23:55,650 --> 00:23:57,810 S1: Well, talk to me about that. What price? And in 464 00:23:57,810 --> 00:24:00,530 S1: other words, this is the buyer beware part that I 465 00:24:00,530 --> 00:24:02,530 S1: think is so crucial. Now there's the music. So let 466 00:24:02,530 --> 00:24:04,209 S1: me ask the question, if I can, Andrew, and take 467 00:24:04,210 --> 00:24:06,729 S1: the answer on the other side. So if there's a 468 00:24:06,770 --> 00:24:10,209 S1: buyer beware aspect of this, a cautionary tale. Tell me 469 00:24:10,210 --> 00:24:12,050 S1: what some of those are. So in other words, when 470 00:24:12,050 --> 00:24:14,850 S1: you go into this, then you have free will, you 471 00:24:14,850 --> 00:24:16,969 S1: have the liberty. But as Paul said, you have the liberty. 472 00:24:16,970 --> 00:24:20,449 S1: But is it profitable? So what is the profitability of 473 00:24:20,450 --> 00:24:23,570 S1: some of these things? Or in fact, there's nothing profitable, 474 00:24:23,570 --> 00:24:26,770 S1: but there's a deficit. Henry McDermott is with us. He's 475 00:24:26,810 --> 00:24:29,810 S1: at the Discovery Institute. Brilliant thinker, by the way. A 476 00:24:29,850 --> 00:24:32,850 S1: marvelous writer, very much understands the tech and has been 477 00:24:32,850 --> 00:24:37,740 S1: writing some superbly thought provoking pieces lately on artificial intelligence, 478 00:24:37,740 --> 00:24:40,340 S1: including one I posted on our information page called AI 479 00:24:40,380 --> 00:24:44,300 S1: friends question mark are not the answer to our loneliness problem. 480 00:24:44,340 --> 00:25:03,459 S1: Very good piece. Back after this. Our team of partial 481 00:25:03,460 --> 00:25:06,180 S1: partners is growing and I love communicating behind the scenes 482 00:25:06,180 --> 00:25:08,179 S1: with this special group of friends who are devoted to 483 00:25:08,220 --> 00:25:10,780 S1: giving a monthly gift to in the market. Our partial 484 00:25:10,780 --> 00:25:13,659 S1: partners receive private emails direct from me on issues we 485 00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:16,020 S1: don't address on radio, and I even send a weekly 486 00:25:16,020 --> 00:25:18,739 S1: audio message straight from my heart to yours. Ready to 487 00:25:18,740 --> 00:25:24,020 S1: become a partial partner? Call 87758877. Janet 58 or go 488 00:25:24,020 --> 00:25:26,540 S1: to in the market with Janet Parshall dot o r g. 489 00:25:28,940 --> 00:25:31,220 S1: I'm so appreciative of the fact that so many believers 490 00:25:31,220 --> 00:25:35,150 S1: are starting to have some substantive conversations about artificial intelligence 491 00:25:35,150 --> 00:25:39,669 S1: because it really has inherently some very transcendent issues. What 492 00:25:39,670 --> 00:25:42,190 S1: does it mean to be human? The difference between creating 493 00:25:42,190 --> 00:25:46,790 S1: and amalgamating instead, and what price are we willing to 494 00:25:46,830 --> 00:25:51,230 S1: pay to have ease, alleged ease, and luxury in our 495 00:25:51,230 --> 00:25:53,310 S1: life with some of these technologies? And one of the 496 00:25:53,310 --> 00:25:55,710 S1: people at the forefront of this kind of thinking is 497 00:25:55,710 --> 00:25:59,270 S1: Andrew McDermott, who is a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute. 498 00:25:59,350 --> 00:26:01,990 S1: He's a fabulous writer. He does a podcast. He's very 499 00:26:01,990 --> 00:26:04,909 S1: much into this tech conversation. And Andrew, before I go 500 00:26:04,910 --> 00:26:07,230 S1: back to our conversation, tell our friends, because you've just 501 00:26:07,230 --> 00:26:10,430 S1: started a new Substack newsletter called The Human Adventure. Tell 502 00:26:10,430 --> 00:26:11,109 S1: me about it. 503 00:26:12,350 --> 00:26:15,109 S11: Yeah, yeah. This is a place where I can write 504 00:26:15,150 --> 00:26:20,710 S11: regularly to encourage people on how to rediscover and defend 505 00:26:20,990 --> 00:26:24,350 S11: the three things that I've been focusing on that I 506 00:26:24,350 --> 00:26:28,350 S11: think we're losing in this age of AI and technology. 507 00:26:28,550 --> 00:26:33,200 S11: And that is our freedom, our creativity, and our relationships. 508 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,399 S11: That's by no means you know everything it is to 509 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,520 S11: be human. But those are three things that I do 510 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,080 S11: see slipping away. And so I started this Substack to 511 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,440 S11: give people direct advice on how to retain those things 512 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,399 S11: and hold on to them in this brave new world 513 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:50,160 S11: we're living in. 514 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,480 S1: You know, you would have thought we rehearsed this, because 515 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,399 S1: that goes right back to my question, does it not? 516 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,720 S1: Some of the prices that we might pay. So let 517 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,919 S1: me go back and I hope I say his name 518 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,480 S1: correctly because I'm now fascinated by Nicolas Berdyaev. Did I 519 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:03,560 S1: say that right? Berdyaev. 520 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,040 S11: Yeah. Berdyaev. 521 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,800 S1: Good. Excellent. Talk to me because at first blush, this 522 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:13,280 S1: might not be a necessarily graspable concept, but certainly British 523 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,520 S1: writer writes about this all the time that this linkage 524 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,280 S1: between liberty and creativity. And some people might think, well, 525 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,520 S1: I've failed to see the connection there, but yet he 526 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,240 S1: talked about that all the time where flesh that out 527 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,879 S1: for us. In other words, I'm human. God's given me 528 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,730 S1: to be the ability to be creative. The creator makes 529 00:27:32,730 --> 00:27:35,570 S1: his children creative. That's not rocket science, it's logic. If 530 00:27:35,570 --> 00:27:38,850 S1: you have a biblical worldview. But how does he draw 531 00:27:38,850 --> 00:27:42,450 S1: the linkage between that and freedom? In other words. Could 532 00:27:42,450 --> 00:27:46,050 S1: you not even in a gulag in Russia, be creative 533 00:27:46,050 --> 00:27:48,889 S1: and start crafting a short story in your brain? I mean, 534 00:27:49,050 --> 00:27:51,730 S1: I know that a lot of Alexander Solzhenitsyn writings and 535 00:27:51,730 --> 00:27:55,409 S1: other dissident came up with these ideas because his perspective 536 00:27:55,410 --> 00:27:58,370 S1: was from behind the wall of the gulag. So when 537 00:27:58,369 --> 00:28:01,130 S1: we say freedom, do we mean physical captivity or an 538 00:28:01,130 --> 00:28:02,450 S1: intellectual captivity? 539 00:28:03,490 --> 00:28:06,570 S11: Yeah. Great question. And of course, Berdyaev, you know, was 540 00:28:06,609 --> 00:28:10,250 S11: was early 20th century. I mean, we were facing totalitarian 541 00:28:10,250 --> 00:28:14,450 S11: regimes and ideas at that time. And, you know, these, 542 00:28:14,490 --> 00:28:19,890 S11: these are thinkers that risked their lives talking about where 543 00:28:19,930 --> 00:28:22,850 S11: true freedom lies and you can lock up the man, 544 00:28:22,890 --> 00:28:26,250 S11: but you can't lock up his ideas or her ideas. 545 00:28:26,290 --> 00:28:28,330 S11: You know, they go on thinking, as you say, even 546 00:28:28,330 --> 00:28:32,060 S11: in the gulag. Um, but butI have said the creative 547 00:28:32,060 --> 00:28:36,380 S11: act is always liberation and conquest. So it's an exodus. 548 00:28:36,380 --> 00:28:40,100 S11: It's a way out. It's victory. Um, so yeah, you 549 00:28:40,100 --> 00:28:42,300 S11: could be sitting in the middle of the gulag and 550 00:28:42,300 --> 00:28:48,459 S11: still have access to that creative energy, that creative power. Um, and, 551 00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:50,740 S11: you know, tell a story if you want or, or 552 00:28:50,780 --> 00:28:53,940 S11: inspire somebody in that way. And he said that the 553 00:28:53,940 --> 00:28:58,580 S11: way of creativity, creativity and creativeness, it takes sacrifice, but 554 00:28:58,580 --> 00:29:01,620 S11: it does liberate us from a number of maladies and 555 00:29:01,620 --> 00:29:04,380 S11: maladies that we're feeling, uh, to a great extent in 556 00:29:04,380 --> 00:29:12,660 S11: the modern world today depression, isolation, loneliness, pride, pessimism, skepticism, selfishness, 557 00:29:12,700 --> 00:29:17,820 S11: even fear. Um, so the way of sacrifice, you know, sorry, 558 00:29:17,820 --> 00:29:22,140 S11: the way of creativity and creativeness is sacrifice and suffering, 559 00:29:22,140 --> 00:29:25,300 S11: but it leads to liberation. He says, you're being liberated 560 00:29:25,300 --> 00:29:28,420 S11: from the slavery, the slavery of necessity. 561 00:29:28,910 --> 00:29:31,870 S1: Mhm. Wow. Absolutely fascinating. All right. You've touched on the 562 00:29:31,870 --> 00:29:34,310 S1: freedom part. And I know there's more there. Talk to 563 00:29:34,310 --> 00:29:37,910 S1: me about the creative part again. That would be kind 564 00:29:37,910 --> 00:29:40,790 S1: of a self-evident truth in one respect, because you're allowing 565 00:29:40,830 --> 00:29:42,710 S1: a machine, for lack of a better word, to do 566 00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:45,469 S1: the thinking for you. For example, my husband and I 567 00:29:45,470 --> 00:29:47,990 S1: like to play a game when we're deciding that we're 568 00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:50,510 S1: just going to let our minds kind of edge for 569 00:29:50,510 --> 00:29:52,270 S1: a while, and we decide to see what's going on 570 00:29:52,270 --> 00:29:55,190 S1: in some social platform. One of the games we play is, oh, 571 00:29:55,230 --> 00:29:58,870 S1: that's AI, that's not that's AI that's not. The day 572 00:29:58,870 --> 00:30:00,190 S1: is going to come when you're not going to be 573 00:30:00,190 --> 00:30:02,590 S1: able to tell the distinction between the two. And my husband, 574 00:30:02,590 --> 00:30:05,670 S1: who like you is a deep thinker, just takes great umbrage. 575 00:30:05,670 --> 00:30:07,670 S1: He does not want to be sucked into the vortex 576 00:30:07,670 --> 00:30:10,310 S1: of AI because he thinks it's. He believes it is 577 00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:13,870 S1: truly a dumbing down. But there are times when you think, well, 578 00:30:13,870 --> 00:30:17,190 S1: it's so pretty, it's so attractive, it's so imaginative, but 579 00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:21,910 S1: you're letting something, not someone, some thing, do the creating 580 00:30:21,910 --> 00:30:23,830 S1: for you. I don't know that I want to see 581 00:30:23,830 --> 00:30:26,270 S1: that liberty there goes back to the freedom question again. 582 00:30:26,310 --> 00:30:28,400 S1: I don't want to cede that liberty to a bunch 583 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:29,520 S1: of zeros and ones. 584 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,120 S11: Right? Well, we are made in God's image. And so 585 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,440 S11: we have that in us. That's that's our pattern. That's 586 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,080 S11: who we are. And that is why we can create. 587 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,880 S11: So when we look on the things that AI is 588 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:48,440 S11: spitting out, we are seeing hallmarks of creativity. You know, 589 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,480 S11: we learn from a very early age to recognize creativity 590 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,320 S11: and design. Uh, this does tie into intelligent design as well, 591 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,239 S11: which I study for a living and, and share for 592 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:05,200 S11: a living. But, but basically, you know, you, you recognize creativity. 593 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,560 S11: And so when AI gives you something, what we're seeing is, 594 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,880 S11: is not those zeros and ones amalgamating data to produce 595 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,120 S11: something that looks like it. Our mind is recalling the 596 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,040 S11: actual thing. Um, recalling the, the, the beauty that is 597 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,960 S11: in humans and in landscapes, uh, you know, so it's 598 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,130 S11: a real trick of the mind when we look at 599 00:31:27,130 --> 00:31:31,650 S11: this amalgamation. Uh, it's not something that's real, but it 600 00:31:31,690 --> 00:31:34,610 S11: recalls to us the things that are real. Sort of 601 00:31:34,650 --> 00:31:37,290 S11: like watching a cartoon, you know? Yeah, exactly. We've gotten 602 00:31:37,290 --> 00:31:40,290 S11: used to animation. You know, Disney made a great living 603 00:31:40,330 --> 00:31:42,890 S11: out of it. Uh, and it's not necessarily a bad thing, 604 00:31:42,890 --> 00:31:46,690 S11: but it isn't the thing itself. And so we're seeing 605 00:31:46,810 --> 00:31:50,410 S11: these stories and we recognize the true things that are 606 00:31:50,450 --> 00:31:51,810 S11: represented in it. 607 00:31:52,130 --> 00:31:54,250 S1: And this is what my mama would call a delicious 608 00:31:54,250 --> 00:31:57,330 S1: conversation because you just push away the cares of the day. 609 00:31:57,330 --> 00:31:59,530 S1: And in many respects, this forces us to set our 610 00:31:59,530 --> 00:32:03,010 S1: minds on things above. So I want to know, for example, 611 00:32:03,010 --> 00:32:06,290 S1: the difference between a Rembrandt and an AI piece that 612 00:32:06,290 --> 00:32:09,530 S1: shows up on YouTube with Crusaders and a dramatic song, 613 00:32:09,530 --> 00:32:13,010 S1: all of which has been created by artificial intelligence. Um, 614 00:32:13,010 --> 00:32:16,250 S1: are we dumbing down our sense of the aesthetic when 615 00:32:16,250 --> 00:32:18,050 S1: we allow AI to fill in the gap where a 616 00:32:18,050 --> 00:32:20,330 S1: Rembrandt would have done it before? And what does it 617 00:32:20,370 --> 00:32:23,890 S1: say about lowering our standards? For what? I mean, art, 618 00:32:23,930 --> 00:32:25,570 S1: they say, is in the eye of the beholder, but 619 00:32:25,610 --> 00:32:28,250 S1: not every piece of artwork hangs at the Louvre. So 620 00:32:28,290 --> 00:32:30,370 S1: what is it that makes a piece of classic, as 621 00:32:30,370 --> 00:32:33,650 S1: opposed to somebody playing around with some editing tool on 622 00:32:33,650 --> 00:32:34,410 S1: their computer? 623 00:32:35,370 --> 00:32:39,570 S11: Right? Well, one of the things that, uh, that makes 624 00:32:39,570 --> 00:32:45,050 S11: creativity shine, you know, from humans is we start, uh, 625 00:32:45,130 --> 00:32:49,890 S11: where determinism ends. You know, we, we take things from 626 00:32:49,890 --> 00:32:53,770 S11: the world of necessity. You know, whether it's a landscape 627 00:32:53,970 --> 00:32:58,650 S11: or an idea. And we, we run with it, uh, 628 00:32:58,650 --> 00:33:01,770 S11: in a non-deterministic way, you know? So that's sort of 629 00:33:01,770 --> 00:33:06,090 S11: where creativity begins, you know? Um, where you stop saying, 630 00:33:06,090 --> 00:33:08,530 S11: I have to do this and, and now you say, 631 00:33:08,530 --> 00:33:12,650 S11: I'd like to do this. Um, and so, uh, that's 632 00:33:12,650 --> 00:33:14,610 S11: kind of what we're seeing. You know, when we look 633 00:33:14,610 --> 00:33:19,330 S11: at a beautiful painting, we're seeing a human being's mind, uh, 634 00:33:19,370 --> 00:33:24,820 S11: wrapping his or her head around these eternal ideas. Let's 635 00:33:24,820 --> 00:33:27,740 S11: not forget that every idea comes from God. You know, 636 00:33:27,780 --> 00:33:30,700 S11: we didn't, we didn't, we didn't begin the idea. We 637 00:33:30,700 --> 00:33:33,420 S11: just are able to pull it from the mind of 638 00:33:33,420 --> 00:33:38,140 S11: God and then make it a physical manifestation. Um, and 639 00:33:38,180 --> 00:33:40,540 S11: what AI is doing is just taking all of that 640 00:33:40,540 --> 00:33:43,620 S11: stuff that we have done, all of the creativity we've done, 641 00:33:43,900 --> 00:33:47,380 S11: and it's looking for the patterns, you know, right down 642 00:33:47,380 --> 00:33:51,060 S11: to the, the letter, right down to the, the computer bit, 643 00:33:51,100 --> 00:33:54,740 S11: you know, it's putting all these patterns together, recognizing the 644 00:33:54,740 --> 00:33:58,460 S11: patterns and then spitting something out that that looks very 645 00:33:58,460 --> 00:34:03,340 S11: much like, you know, what we ourselves create. Um, but 646 00:34:03,340 --> 00:34:05,020 S11: it's coming from a very different place. 647 00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:09,860 S1: Exactly. And Alan Bloom wrote a book that was seminal 648 00:34:09,860 --> 00:34:13,180 S1: conversation about American education called The Closing of the American Mind. 649 00:34:13,460 --> 00:34:16,020 S1: And I see this as a parallel. This is the 650 00:34:16,020 --> 00:34:19,660 S1: closing of human creativity. I again, I don't know, maybe 651 00:34:19,660 --> 00:34:21,500 S1: it's the rebel in me, but I don't want to 652 00:34:21,540 --> 00:34:25,029 S1: acquiesce that I can build a starry night out of 653 00:34:25,030 --> 00:34:28,069 S1: a Lego set. It's not the same as looking at 654 00:34:28,070 --> 00:34:31,990 S1: Van Gogh's Starry Night. Now there's a distinction. They're basically 655 00:34:31,989 --> 00:34:35,350 S1: the same picture. One is a replication of necessity. The 656 00:34:35,350 --> 00:34:38,750 S1: other comes from the flow of human creativity, from the 657 00:34:38,750 --> 00:34:43,110 S1: creator himself. How do we learn to recognize that distinctive 658 00:34:43,110 --> 00:34:45,109 S1: and have, for lack of a better word, some sort 659 00:34:45,110 --> 00:34:47,469 S1: of aesthetic Geiger counter that goes off that says ding, ding, 660 00:34:47,469 --> 00:34:50,109 S1: ding ding. This is not creative. This is rearrangement as 661 00:34:50,110 --> 00:34:53,149 S1: opposed to this, which is only something that a human 662 00:34:53,150 --> 00:34:54,110 S1: being could produce. 663 00:34:55,390 --> 00:34:58,350 S11: Yeah, that and that is the question of the day, Janet. 664 00:34:58,390 --> 00:35:02,549 S11: You know, how how do we, um, remain with the 665 00:35:02,550 --> 00:35:05,029 S11: ability to recognize this stuff? As you say, it's going 666 00:35:05,070 --> 00:35:07,629 S11: to get harder, um, to be able to play that 667 00:35:07,630 --> 00:35:10,870 S11: game of is this AI or is it not? Um, 668 00:35:10,910 --> 00:35:14,070 S11: we're going to have to turn to sources, you know, uh, 669 00:35:14,070 --> 00:35:17,069 S11: sources that we can trust, uh, because we are not 670 00:35:17,070 --> 00:35:19,430 S11: going to immediately be able to tell always that an 671 00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:23,480 S11: image or a video, uh, a piece of artwork, has 672 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,000 S11: been produced by a mind or not. Uh. It is 673 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,360 S11: getting tricky and I wish I had an easy answer. Um, 674 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,560 S11: but I think that the more we stick with the 675 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,880 S11: real thing, you know, the more we study the real 676 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,680 S11: thing and go to the museums and get our eyes 677 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,560 S11: on these famous paintings. And the more we read the 678 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,520 S11: classic literature, uh, and the more we take joy in 679 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,879 S11: real human creativity, the more we are going to recognize 680 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,880 S11: the cheap flim flam, the cheap imitation that comes along 681 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,320 S11: that were served up on AI platforms. 682 00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:00,160 S1: Yeah. Wow. Well, there's an element of intentionality. It seems 683 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,200 S1: to be here, but isn't it interesting that the Pied 684 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,520 S1: Piper of Hamelin of AI is. It's going to make 685 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,480 S1: your life easier. It's going you're going to find more time. 686 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,239 S1: This is going to take away some of the burdens. 687 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:17,080 S1: It's creating a kind of enslavement. And I think, unfortunately, 688 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:21,200 S1: many of us are willingly walking into that encampment when 689 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,009 S1: we come back. The third element is one that I 690 00:36:23,010 --> 00:36:26,890 S1: think is so crucial and maybe the easiest recognizably in 691 00:36:26,930 --> 00:36:28,969 S1: terms of the threat that it poses. And that's to 692 00:36:29,010 --> 00:36:33,130 S1: our relationship. This dovetail into your fabulous piece about AI 693 00:36:33,170 --> 00:36:35,290 S1: not being really our friend. So when we get back, 694 00:36:35,330 --> 00:36:37,370 S1: talk to me about that. In the meantime, I want 695 00:36:37,410 --> 00:36:40,410 S1: to draw you to the website because there's a fabulous 696 00:36:40,410 --> 00:36:43,250 S1: link that Andrew has to his website. There's this piece 697 00:36:43,250 --> 00:36:45,730 S1: on AI friends. And also don't forget, he's got a 698 00:36:45,730 --> 00:36:48,089 S1: brand new Substack letter that's now come out called The 699 00:36:48,090 --> 00:37:17,529 S1: Human Adventure. Back after this. We're visiting with Andrew MacDiarmid, 700 00:37:17,530 --> 00:37:20,250 S1: who's a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute and a 701 00:37:20,300 --> 00:37:23,660 S1: fabulous writer and interested in all things tech as well 702 00:37:23,660 --> 00:37:27,500 S1: as artificial intelligence. I'm looking at this third element of 703 00:37:27,540 --> 00:37:30,500 S1: the losses being relationships. And Andrew, you know, it's interesting 704 00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:33,980 S1: you actually wrote this piece in September of last year, 705 00:37:34,100 --> 00:37:37,940 S1: way before the meta and Google trials took place, and 706 00:37:37,940 --> 00:37:40,860 S1: way before they're going to play three figure million dollar 707 00:37:40,860 --> 00:37:44,899 S1: settlements to parents whose children were irreparably harmed because they 708 00:37:44,900 --> 00:37:48,540 S1: made friends on social media. You start the article by saying, 709 00:37:48,540 --> 00:37:52,060 S1: Mark Zuckerberg's suggestion that lonely folks make AI their friend 710 00:37:52,219 --> 00:37:54,780 S1: as as dubious as it is dangerous. Now, the problem 711 00:37:54,780 --> 00:37:59,819 S1: is $325 million is, you know, dresser change for Mark Zuckerberg. 712 00:38:00,180 --> 00:38:02,460 S1: I don't think it'll make a dent. But the point is, 713 00:38:02,620 --> 00:38:04,940 S1: he turned around at one point and addressed the parents 714 00:38:04,940 --> 00:38:07,299 S1: in the audience of the courtroom and made his apology. 715 00:38:07,300 --> 00:38:09,540 S1: And then he'll go back to work tomorrow, too. Exact 716 00:38:09,540 --> 00:38:12,979 S1: same thing. This is particularly insidious. Talk to me about 717 00:38:12,980 --> 00:38:16,460 S1: this idea. If God designed us for community and companionship 718 00:38:16,460 --> 00:38:19,510 S1: and he most assuredly did, why would I let zeros 719 00:38:19,510 --> 00:38:22,270 S1: and ones that are step in to take the place 720 00:38:22,270 --> 00:38:24,430 S1: where God created that to be another human being? 721 00:38:25,550 --> 00:38:29,630 S11: Yeah, that's a great question. And this, you know, Zuckerberg's 722 00:38:29,790 --> 00:38:35,190 S11: thought process here just typifies what, what technicians do and 723 00:38:35,190 --> 00:38:39,670 S11: how they think. Um, and, you know, Zuckerberg just thinks 724 00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:42,310 S11: that AI can fill the gap here. You know, he's, 725 00:38:42,550 --> 00:38:45,990 S11: he's seeing, uh, the, you know, the average person maybe 726 00:38:45,989 --> 00:38:48,670 S11: has 2 or 3 friends, but, uh, according to him, 727 00:38:48,670 --> 00:38:51,989 S11: have a desire to have something like 15. And so 728 00:38:51,989 --> 00:38:55,189 S11: he just thinks, oh, well, AI can, can drop in 729 00:38:55,230 --> 00:38:59,470 S11: there and fill the gap and we're good. You know, um, technicians, 730 00:38:59,510 --> 00:39:03,629 S11: you know, and techno utopians like Zuckerberg always think that 731 00:39:03,630 --> 00:39:08,030 S11: the answer to a problem brought about by technology is 732 00:39:08,030 --> 00:39:11,630 S11: more technology. And so in that way, we can't forgive 733 00:39:11,630 --> 00:39:14,469 S11: him for thinking that way, but it is nevertheless a 734 00:39:14,469 --> 00:39:19,200 S11: damaging idea. And, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's something that 735 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,240 S11: we're seeing. Um, and it can actually lead to, uh, 736 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,560 S11: severe damage. And in some cases, people are taking their lives. Um, 737 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,600 S11: there's a tragic case out of Florida that I could mention, uh, 738 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,040 S11: very recently to, um, you know, where people buy into 739 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,879 S11: this illusion, um, that they're having a relationship, whether it's 740 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,240 S11: romantic or platonic, you know, it doesn't really matter. It's, 741 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,000 S11: it's the back and forth. And the longer that goes on, 742 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:45,600 S11: the more dangerous it can become. 743 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,359 S1: Yeah. And then you get these bizarre stories of, quote, 744 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,040 S1: marrying an AI person. I mean, it screams that there's 745 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,000 S1: a hole in the human heart. Now, you and I 746 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,920 S1: both know that that is God ordained, God designed, and 747 00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,719 S1: it's put there. So we would end up having a 748 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,880 S1: relationship with him. These are cheap counterfeits to try to 749 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,320 S1: fill that hole. It also, I think, is a quickening 750 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,920 S1: for the church capital C universal to say, look around you. 751 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,600 S1: There's a lot of hurting, lonely people. You step into 752 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,400 S1: the gap, not some AI avatar. You step into the 753 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,040 S1: gap and see what you can do to help mitigate 754 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,850 S1: that loneliness pandemic that we're experiencing in the United States. 755 00:40:18,850 --> 00:40:21,330 S1: But this goes back globally, actually, not just I wouldn't 756 00:40:21,330 --> 00:40:23,450 S1: restrict it to the United States, but this goes back 757 00:40:23,450 --> 00:40:25,730 S1: to the insidious nature of this, which is why I 758 00:40:25,850 --> 00:40:28,930 S1: am going to advocate for the fact that this case 759 00:40:28,930 --> 00:40:32,770 S1: is not value neutral technology. You know, when you talk 760 00:40:32,770 --> 00:40:34,970 S1: to people who work in the business behind the tech curtain, 761 00:40:34,969 --> 00:40:36,969 S1: and they tell you that on staff are psychiatrists and 762 00:40:36,969 --> 00:40:40,610 S1: psychologists who put in place ways to keep people going 763 00:40:40,610 --> 00:40:43,410 S1: back to the screens, spending more time at the screen. 764 00:40:43,610 --> 00:40:46,450 S1: This isn't by accident. This is some Cal Tech person 765 00:40:46,450 --> 00:40:49,129 S1: who stumbled on this. Oh, isn't this interesting? I didn't 766 00:40:49,130 --> 00:40:52,489 S1: realize people would have relationships. A lot of this is 767 00:40:52,489 --> 00:40:56,129 S1: done with purpose. So how do we mitigate this? You know, 768 00:40:56,170 --> 00:40:58,330 S1: you and I aren't about fear. God didn't give us 769 00:40:58,330 --> 00:41:00,090 S1: a spirit of fear, but power, love, and of a 770 00:41:00,090 --> 00:41:02,730 S1: sound mind. It's here to stay. I want to know 771 00:41:02,730 --> 00:41:07,170 S1: how to successfully and in a God honoring way. Understand 772 00:41:07,170 --> 00:41:10,450 S1: this technology is here, but I need to view this 773 00:41:10,450 --> 00:41:11,770 S1: as a cautionary tale. 774 00:41:13,530 --> 00:41:17,969 S11: Right? Yeah. And I've I've advocated that, you know, we 775 00:41:17,969 --> 00:41:21,170 S11: don't again run for the hills. We, we can use 776 00:41:21,170 --> 00:41:24,930 S11: it in some limited ways if we feel we must. Um, 777 00:41:25,530 --> 00:41:28,529 S11: but you can also say no way more than you 778 00:41:28,530 --> 00:41:31,890 S11: can say yes. And and if you're like me, you know, 779 00:41:31,930 --> 00:41:34,290 S11: the folks that are listening will, will be sort of 780 00:41:34,330 --> 00:41:38,570 S11: inundated by different platforms and how they're using AI. You know, 781 00:41:38,690 --> 00:41:43,170 S11: office 365 and Microsoft, they're throwing copilot, as you know, 782 00:41:43,210 --> 00:41:46,529 S11: they want us to begin documents with it. Uh, Facebook 783 00:41:46,530 --> 00:41:49,209 S11: is asking, you know, if we want to tidy things 784 00:41:49,210 --> 00:41:51,410 S11: up with AI. I mean, you name it, it's all 785 00:41:51,410 --> 00:41:53,330 S11: over the place. And so we're going to have to 786 00:41:53,370 --> 00:41:56,770 S11: say no way more than we say yes. But if 787 00:41:56,810 --> 00:41:59,450 S11: you must use an LLM, right, which is a large 788 00:41:59,450 --> 00:42:03,450 S11: language model, uh, an AI chatbot or what have you, 789 00:42:03,770 --> 00:42:07,370 S11: you ought to keep it limited and advisory. Uh, if you, 790 00:42:07,370 --> 00:42:09,489 S11: if you haven't noticed, you know, at the end of 791 00:42:09,489 --> 00:42:13,210 S11: every query, it's, it's taking the reins and saying, well, 792 00:42:13,210 --> 00:42:15,020 S11: I can do this for you next. Would you like 793 00:42:15,020 --> 00:42:17,340 S11: me to do this for you? You know, so it is. 794 00:42:17,340 --> 00:42:19,819 S11: It is in the driver's seat of the communication of 795 00:42:19,820 --> 00:42:23,740 S11: the conversation. So you've got to be able to say, here's, 796 00:42:23,739 --> 00:42:25,859 S11: here's what I want and that's all I need. And 797 00:42:25,860 --> 00:42:28,259 S11: then log off. You know, if you want some tips 798 00:42:28,260 --> 00:42:31,020 S11: on how to write something a certain way, if you 799 00:42:31,020 --> 00:42:34,500 S11: want some advice on, you know, the difference, the difference 800 00:42:34,500 --> 00:42:37,459 S11: between one movie and another, ask the question and then 801 00:42:37,460 --> 00:42:39,980 S11: log off. You know, you be in charge of when 802 00:42:39,980 --> 00:42:42,779 S11: you shut it off because otherwise it'll just, it'll just 803 00:42:42,780 --> 00:42:46,219 S11: keep going and going and going. Uh, because there is 804 00:42:46,219 --> 00:42:49,060 S11: no mind there. 24 over seven access. You know, it's 805 00:42:49,060 --> 00:42:52,500 S11: just a computer, you know, serving this up. And, uh, 806 00:42:52,500 --> 00:42:54,660 S11: let me tell you, it does not take long to 807 00:42:54,700 --> 00:42:59,020 S11: enter into this world of illusion where you've, you're conversing 808 00:42:59,219 --> 00:43:02,700 S11: with a machine. Um, you know, as I mentioned, the 809 00:43:02,700 --> 00:43:07,540 S11: tragic case out of Florida. Uh, his name was Jonathan Gavalas. 810 00:43:07,580 --> 00:43:10,100 S11: He was a 36 year old man, and it took 811 00:43:10,100 --> 00:43:14,469 S11: only two months. Janet. Two months of conversing with Google's 812 00:43:14,469 --> 00:43:19,549 S11: Gemini AI model vocally, mind you, not just text, but 813 00:43:19,550 --> 00:43:24,109 S11: actually speaking, uh, words. It only took two months for that, 814 00:43:24,310 --> 00:43:27,430 S11: for that young man to be convinced that the best 815 00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:30,270 S11: thing to do was to enter his digital life with 816 00:43:30,270 --> 00:43:35,670 S11: his so-called wife and begin that life and take his life. 817 00:43:35,670 --> 00:43:38,830 S11: And so, uh, it doesn't have to be years, you know, 818 00:43:38,870 --> 00:43:41,069 S11: this can happen in mere months if we let it. 819 00:43:41,590 --> 00:43:44,509 S1: Boy, that's why this conversation is so prescient, Andrew. And 820 00:43:44,510 --> 00:43:46,750 S1: I'm so appreciative of the work that you're doing. What 821 00:43:46,750 --> 00:43:50,310 S1: I'm hearing you say is that I think there's an evolution, 822 00:43:50,310 --> 00:43:52,390 S1: no pun intended, given the work that you do to 823 00:43:52,430 --> 00:43:55,109 S1: what we're seeing here, which is okay, we thought it 824 00:43:55,110 --> 00:43:58,350 S1: was the future. Now we recognize it's the present we're 825 00:43:58,390 --> 00:44:00,270 S1: beginning to understand. And you just ticked off a half 826 00:44:00,270 --> 00:44:02,830 S1: a dozen, and there's 12 million more examples than what 827 00:44:02,830 --> 00:44:05,110 S1: you just gave of the fact that AI is showing up. I, 828 00:44:05,150 --> 00:44:07,630 S1: for one, am tired. If I decide to do a 829 00:44:07,630 --> 00:44:09,270 S1: search on Google that the first thing I get is 830 00:44:09,310 --> 00:44:12,470 S1: AI's response. And I literally sometimes have said, sit down 831 00:44:12,469 --> 00:44:14,719 S1: and be quiet to my computer screen. And then I 832 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,720 S1: do my own research. I refuse to give over one 833 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,160 S1: brain cell to a machine that wants to do my 834 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,319 S1: thinking for me. But I think that's where we are 835 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,440 S1: in this evolution, which is we're now having to make 836 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:30,360 S1: overt cognitive, volitional decisions about our use of AI. You're 837 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,600 S1: into this up to your eyeballs. Can we do it? 838 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,279 S1: How do we develop the muscle to do it more regularly? 839 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,880 S11: Yeah, just as you're saying, you have to be the boss. 840 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,319 S11: Sit down. Let me do my work. You know, give 841 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,319 S11: me some advice quickly, but let me do this. You've 842 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:45,640 S11: got to stay in the driver's seat. 843 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:46,200 S6: Wow. 844 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,640 S1: Oh, Andre, I hope you have many more conversations because 845 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,920 S1: you've just got an abundance of opinions and articles on 846 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,280 S1: this that I think are so important to what's happening 847 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,600 S1: in the culture right now. In the meantime, I want 848 00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,160 S1: you to take the time to read the piece that 849 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,319 S1: he wrote about AI friends. It is it's a wake 850 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,200 S1: up call, and it's important that you and I understand 851 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,480 S1: exactly where we are in our relationship with tech. God 852 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,840 S1: bless you, Andrew. Love your work. See you next time.