1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,400 S1: Hi friends, this is Janet Parshall. Thanks so much for 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,160 S1: downloading this podcast, and I hope you hear something that 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,560 S1: will really encourage and edify you. But before you start 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,400 S1: to listen, let me take a moment of your time 5 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,399 S1: and tell you about this month's truth tool. It's called 6 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,640 S1: secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. And 7 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,360 S1: it follows that very often, whatever our relationship is like 8 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,000 S1: with authority figures, predominantly our parents, we somehow transferred to 9 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,000 S1: how we see God. So if we have an angry parent, 10 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,319 S1: he's an angry God. If it's a distant parent, he's 11 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,520 S1: a God who's not there. I think it's important we 12 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,680 S1: understand who God really is. And in this wonderful book 13 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,760 S1: called secure, you're going to discover the character of God 14 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,120 S1: and how deeply in love God is with you. It's 15 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:38,839 S1: our truth tool. Our truth tools are my way of 16 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,680 S1: saying thank you because we are listener supported radio. So 17 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,600 S1: if you'd like a copy of secure, just call eight 7758. 18 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,760 S1: That's eight 7758. Give a gift of any amount. My 19 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,840 S1: way of saying thank you for supporting the program is 20 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,000 S1: I'll send you a copy of secure. You can also 21 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,560 S1: do this online at in the Market with Janet. Scroll 22 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,720 S1: to the bottom of the page. There's the cover of 23 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,280 S1: the book secure. Click on the photo. Go right on through. 24 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,520 S1: Make your donation and we'll send you a copy again 25 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,520 S1: of secure. If you want to consider becoming a partial partner, 26 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,520 S1: that is the ever increasing circle of friends who give 27 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,000 S1: every single month at a level of their own choosing. 28 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,200 S1: And my way of saying thank you is this you 29 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,479 S1: always get the truth tool for each and every month. 30 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,080 S1: And in addition to that, you get a weekly newsletter 31 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,479 S1: that includes some of my writing and a little audio 32 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,080 S1: piece just for my partial partners. So either way, thank 33 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,679 S1: you in advance for prayerfully considering the opportunity to financially 34 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,320 S1: support in the market with Janet partial and keeping it 35 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,360 S1: on the air now, I hope you hear something that 36 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,160 S1: will encourage you to get out and influence and occupy 37 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:37,839 S1: in the marketplace of ideas. 38 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:41,800 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 39 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,360 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 40 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:46,560 S4: Americans worshiping government over God. 41 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,320 S5: Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years. 42 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,040 S6: The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated is not. 43 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:08,240 S5: Hi friends. 44 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,840 S1: Welcome to In the Market with Janet partial. So glad 45 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:12,639 S1: we're going to spend the hour together. And we're going 46 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,239 S1: to tackle a subject that is very often confusing for believers. 47 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,840 S1: And that is the topic of the Holy Spirit. Extremely important. 48 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:23,480 S1: How do I know? Well, if you get into the 49 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,320 S1: Word of God, that's where you're going to get your answers. 50 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,280 S1: Let me give you one example first John five seven 51 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,480 S1: for there are three things that bear witness in heaven 52 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,400 S1: the father, the word meaning Jesus and the Holy Spirit. 53 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,520 S1: And these three are one. So Billy Graham, writing some 54 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,280 S1: time ago, talked about trying to explain the Holy Spirit, 55 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,000 S1: and he used the story of a little boy who 56 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,320 S1: asked his dad, hey, how can I believe the Holy 57 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,800 S1: Spirit when I can't see him? His dad, who was 58 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,079 S1: an electrician, took the boy to a power plant and 59 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,600 S1: showed him the generators. This is where the power comes 60 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,120 S1: from to heat our stove and to give us light. 61 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,919 S1: We can't see the power, but it's in that machine 62 00:02:59,919 --> 00:03:02,079 S1: and in the power lines. Then he asked his son, 63 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,600 S1: do you believe in electricity? Well, as the boy thought 64 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,040 S1: about it, his father explained that everyone believes in electricity 65 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,720 S1: because they see what it can do. Likewise, though we 66 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,240 S1: cannot see the Holy Spirit, believers in Christ know the 67 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:19,360 S1: results of his power in their lives. Surrounding our lives 68 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,920 S1: to the surrendering, rather our lives to the Lord Jesus 69 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,640 S1: opens us up to the power source. Wonderful writing, as 70 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,880 S1: always from the Reverend Billy Graham, but yet troublesome when 71 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,040 S1: you realize how much we as professing Christians don't know. 72 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,080 S1: And even more problematic, don't believe. So, you know, I 73 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,120 S1: love the work of Doctor George Barnett at Arizona Christian University, 74 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,680 S1: and his worldview inventories that he does on various aspects 75 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,920 S1: of Christian beliefs, pushing us ever forward to have a 76 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,800 S1: really solid, bedrock biblical worldview. So to begin this survey, 77 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,119 S1: they wanted to find out how people would define themselves 78 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,560 S1: as Christians. So they had this big spectrum on the 79 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,400 S1: one end is self-identification, which consists of all people, quote, 80 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,400 S1: who simply say they're Christian, according to the survey. The 81 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,320 S1: people who say in America that they are Christian make 82 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,160 S1: up about 69% of the adult population. That's about 176 83 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:12,440 S1: million American adults. However, a different measure are those who 84 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,360 S1: contend that they are Christian by virtue of possessing a 85 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,919 S1: biblical worldview. And according to the survey, that segment is 86 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:25,160 S1: just 6% strong, or about 15 million Americans. Of the 69% 87 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:30,760 S1: of Americans who call themselves Christians, a majority, 58%, believe this. 88 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,240 S1: They contend that the Holy Spirit is not a real 89 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:38,120 S1: living being, but merely a symbol of God's power, presence, 90 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,800 S1: and purity. Of those who are self-identified born again Christians, 91 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:49,640 S1: about 35% of the population, 62%. Let me say that again, 62% 92 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,880 S1: contend that the Holy Spirit is not a real living being, 93 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,839 S1: but is merely a symbol of God's power, presence, and purity. Well, 94 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,400 S1: then the survey breaks down those who call themselves Christians 95 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,280 S1: into an even more narrowly defined segment of, quote, theologically 96 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,120 S1: born again Christians, which are those who, quote, say that 97 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:06,760 S1: when they die they will go to heaven, not only 98 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,279 S1: because they've confessed their sin and accepted Christ as only 99 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,760 S1: because they've confessed their sins and accepted Christ as their Savior. 100 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:19,400 S1: Among this group, a shocking 50% believe that the Holy 101 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:23,280 S1: Spirit is not a real living being. Well, how can 102 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,200 S1: you possibly tap into the power source that is the 103 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,080 S1: Holy Spirit if you don't even believe in him in 104 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,200 S1: the first place? That's what we're going to set up. 105 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,839 S1: Our conversation with Mike Nappa, who's written a wonderful book 106 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,039 S1: on this topic called It Doesn't Have to Be This 107 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:40,240 S1: Hard How We Are Transformed by the Holy Spirit. Mike 108 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,600 S1: is an award winning theologian. He's known for his writing 109 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,440 S1: and his coffee shop theology, as well as helpful Christian 110 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,080 S1: living and devotional books. He is a best selling author 111 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,760 S1: in his own right. His works have been translated into 112 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,550 S1: many languages, with millions of copies sold worldwide, and he's 113 00:05:54,550 --> 00:05:57,789 S1: always proud to tell you that he is an Arab American. Mike, 114 00:05:57,790 --> 00:06:00,390 S1: pull up a chair. With that as our background, I'm 115 00:06:00,430 --> 00:06:03,110 S1: glad you wrote a book on the Holy Spirit. But first, 116 00:06:03,150 --> 00:06:06,070 S1: the presupposition is Christians have to believe in him. Why 117 00:06:06,070 --> 00:06:07,270 S1: those kinds of numbers? 118 00:06:08,230 --> 00:06:10,870 S7: Well, you know, every time I have this, uh, when 119 00:06:10,870 --> 00:06:13,550 S7: I've been talking about this book, not every time, but frequently, uh, 120 00:06:13,550 --> 00:06:15,350 S7: when I've been talking about this book, people ask me 121 00:06:15,350 --> 00:06:17,310 S7: that question, why don't people believe in the Holy Spirit? 122 00:06:17,310 --> 00:06:20,390 S7: And I finally have to admit, I, I really I 123 00:06:20,390 --> 00:06:23,190 S7: really don't know. Um, because if we, if we can't 124 00:06:23,190 --> 00:06:26,469 S7: access the Holy Spirit, if we can't, uh, experience him, 125 00:06:27,070 --> 00:06:28,990 S7: what kind of Christian life are we living? It's not. 126 00:06:29,029 --> 00:06:31,429 S7: It's not a Christian life at all. It's like saying, uh, 127 00:06:31,430 --> 00:06:33,270 S7: you know, I believe in food, but I refuse to 128 00:06:33,310 --> 00:06:35,150 S7: eat it. Or, you know, I believe in air, but 129 00:06:35,150 --> 00:06:38,670 S7: I refuse to breathe it, so I don't understand it. Uh, 130 00:06:38,670 --> 00:06:42,030 S7: I can't pretend to understand it. I can only hope, um, 131 00:06:42,430 --> 00:06:44,830 S7: that they will. That they'll encounter the Holy Spirit in 132 00:06:44,830 --> 00:06:48,270 S7: a way that becomes, uh, real and significant so that 133 00:06:48,270 --> 00:06:50,430 S7: they can actually live each day for Christ instead of 134 00:06:50,430 --> 00:06:53,830 S7: just trying to slip through each day making it happen themselves. 135 00:06:53,870 --> 00:06:56,070 S1: Oh, I like that. That's. That says so much about 136 00:06:56,070 --> 00:06:59,029 S1: your heart. Maybe it's just bad ideas. I mean, we 137 00:06:59,029 --> 00:07:01,670 S1: went through different iterations. I'm old enough to have gone 138 00:07:01,670 --> 00:07:03,150 S1: through some of these where we used to call it 139 00:07:03,150 --> 00:07:04,990 S1: the Holy Ghost, and we stopped calling it that, and 140 00:07:04,990 --> 00:07:07,470 S1: we called it the Holy Spirit. And then because it 141 00:07:07,470 --> 00:07:09,590 S1: was a spirit and we really couldn't figure out how 142 00:07:09,590 --> 00:07:12,390 S1: we in the material world could have a spirit inside 143 00:07:12,390 --> 00:07:14,190 S1: of us. And oh, that was kind of creepy. So 144 00:07:14,390 --> 00:07:17,150 S1: we weren't really embracing it. And then we we still 145 00:07:17,150 --> 00:07:19,910 S1: struggle with the idea that we were souls with bodies 146 00:07:19,910 --> 00:07:22,990 S1: rather than bodies with souls. So the supernatural aspect of 147 00:07:22,990 --> 00:07:26,630 S1: having the indwelling person, let's point that out right away. 148 00:07:26,670 --> 00:07:29,470 S1: The person of the Holy Spirit is a little overwhelming 149 00:07:29,470 --> 00:07:31,590 S1: for all kinds of people, but I love your analysis 150 00:07:31,590 --> 00:07:34,150 S1: about food and water, because how in the world am 151 00:07:34,150 --> 00:07:36,950 S1: I going to daily take up my cross, deny myself 152 00:07:36,950 --> 00:07:38,830 S1: and follow him? How am I going to be conformed 153 00:07:38,830 --> 00:07:41,270 S1: and transformed to the image of Christ? How am I 154 00:07:41,310 --> 00:07:43,270 S1: going to exhibit the fruit of the spirit? How am 155 00:07:43,270 --> 00:07:45,950 S1: I going to do any of that without the Holy Spirit? 156 00:07:45,950 --> 00:07:48,190 S1: Just those three things alone make me exhausted. I couldn't 157 00:07:48,190 --> 00:07:49,710 S1: do any of these things on my own. 158 00:07:50,190 --> 00:07:52,190 S7: Well, and you can't. And Jesus said to himself in 159 00:07:52,190 --> 00:07:54,550 S7: John 15, when he's talking about the vine and the branches, 160 00:07:54,550 --> 00:07:56,990 S7: and how you must be in the, in the, in 161 00:07:57,030 --> 00:07:58,750 S7: the vine in order for the branch to grow and 162 00:07:58,750 --> 00:08:00,830 S7: have life. And then he says it really plainly. He says, 163 00:08:00,830 --> 00:08:04,070 S7: without me you can do nothing. Um, I looked up 164 00:08:04,070 --> 00:08:06,110 S7: that word in the Greek, uh, because I was curious 165 00:08:06,110 --> 00:08:08,590 S7: about it, because that seems really extreme to say, you know, 166 00:08:08,630 --> 00:08:12,110 S7: without Christ, I can do nothing. So I looked it 167 00:08:12,110 --> 00:08:13,670 S7: up in the Greek and I went through all the 168 00:08:14,150 --> 00:08:17,030 S7: definitions of it, and I found out, here's what it means. Uh, 169 00:08:17,030 --> 00:08:20,070 S7: it means nothing. It means nothing. It means without the 170 00:08:20,070 --> 00:08:22,590 S7: Holy Spirit in your life, in your heart, in your work, 171 00:08:22,590 --> 00:08:25,190 S7: in your mind, in your activities, in every aspect of 172 00:08:25,190 --> 00:08:28,230 S7: your being. You can do nothing. And we know this, 173 00:08:28,230 --> 00:08:29,950 S7: first of all, because the Holy Spirit is the one 174 00:08:29,950 --> 00:08:34,150 S7: who gives life to everything. Uh, Scripture teaches that life 175 00:08:34,270 --> 00:08:36,710 S7: is an activity of the Holy Spirit. And for in 176 00:08:36,710 --> 00:08:39,910 S7: order for us to live, not only must the Holy 177 00:08:39,910 --> 00:08:42,790 S7: Spirit create it, he has to maintain it. And if 178 00:08:42,790 --> 00:08:46,310 S7: he doesn't maintain this life, then we can't. We can't 179 00:08:46,350 --> 00:08:51,310 S7: experience this life. So really literally, physically as well as 180 00:08:51,309 --> 00:08:55,030 S7: emotionally and spiritually and relationally and all those other things. 181 00:08:55,030 --> 00:08:59,510 S7: But at the barest moment, uh, physically, we can do 182 00:08:59,510 --> 00:09:02,630 S7: nothing unless the Holy Spirit is active in our lives. 183 00:09:02,910 --> 00:09:04,630 S1: Yeah. Could not agree more. What a great way to 184 00:09:04,670 --> 00:09:06,950 S1: set this up, Mike. Thank you. I'm anxious to get 185 00:09:06,950 --> 00:09:08,990 S1: into this because I want, by the time we're done 186 00:09:08,990 --> 00:09:12,070 S1: with our conversation, for people to understand what God is 187 00:09:12,070 --> 00:09:15,630 S1: doing in, with and through us with the power of 188 00:09:15,630 --> 00:09:18,270 S1: the Holy Spirit. So let's clear away the cloudy thinking 189 00:09:18,270 --> 00:09:20,950 S1: on this. Get biblical and find out why God said 190 00:09:20,950 --> 00:09:23,350 S1: it is better that I leave because I'm sending you 191 00:09:23,350 --> 00:09:26,429 S1: a comforter. And oh, what a comforter back after this. 192 00:09:45,830 --> 00:09:48,510 S1: Are you constantly feeling like God is disappointed in you, 193 00:09:48,590 --> 00:09:51,390 S1: Or do you feel like he's too busy for your problems? Well, 194 00:09:51,390 --> 00:09:53,790 S1: that's why I've chosen secure how to have a healthy 195 00:09:53,790 --> 00:09:56,710 S1: attachment to God. As this month's truth tool, learn to 196 00:09:56,750 --> 00:09:59,550 S1: grasp the depth of God's love for you. Ask for 197 00:09:59,550 --> 00:10:01,470 S1: your copy of secure. When you give a gift of 198 00:10:01,470 --> 00:10:06,790 S1: any amount to in the market, call 87758. That's 87758 199 00:10:06,790 --> 00:10:11,910 S1: or go to in the market with Janet Parshall. We're 200 00:10:11,910 --> 00:10:14,070 S1: visiting with Mike Nappa. So glad he's with us. He's 201 00:10:14,070 --> 00:10:16,030 S1: written a very important book so that we can get 202 00:10:16,030 --> 00:10:18,750 S1: out of those horrible numbers about not believing in the 203 00:10:18,750 --> 00:10:21,110 S1: power of the Holy Spirit. It's called it doesn't have 204 00:10:21,110 --> 00:10:23,990 S1: to be this Hard how we are transformed by the 205 00:10:23,990 --> 00:10:28,110 S1: Holy Spirit. So with that backdrop of those abysmal numbers, 206 00:10:28,110 --> 00:10:30,429 S1: let me just ask you personally, because you are a 207 00:10:30,429 --> 00:10:34,230 S1: wonderful award winning theologian, why were you personally drawn to 208 00:10:34,270 --> 00:10:34,710 S1: the topic? 209 00:10:34,710 --> 00:10:36,630 S7: More things like that. Say more things like that. 210 00:10:39,350 --> 00:10:42,950 S1: We're to practice encouragement, Mike. You know that. So my 211 00:10:42,950 --> 00:10:44,750 S1: question to you is, of all the things that you 212 00:10:44,750 --> 00:10:47,190 S1: have or could write about, what what drew you because, 213 00:10:47,190 --> 00:10:49,710 S1: you know, this being in the in the publishing world, 214 00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:51,790 S1: I always say that writing a book is like having 215 00:10:51,790 --> 00:10:54,390 S1: a baby about nine months gestation, and then there's a 216 00:10:54,390 --> 00:10:56,910 S1: labor and delivery, so it just doesn't pop out. You 217 00:10:56,910 --> 00:10:59,150 S1: have to do a lot of work. Why the Holy Spirit? 218 00:10:59,150 --> 00:11:00,990 S1: Why did you decide to dive into this? 219 00:11:01,470 --> 00:11:03,589 S7: Yeah, I'm going to be honest with you. I was 220 00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:08,550 S7: I was really annoyed. I was I was really annoyed. Uh, 221 00:11:08,550 --> 00:11:10,470 S7: at my church, we have a what they call a 222 00:11:10,470 --> 00:11:13,829 S7: teaching team. And, um, this is where we get together 223 00:11:13,830 --> 00:11:16,350 S7: once a week, and whoever's speaking that week, uh, will 224 00:11:16,350 --> 00:11:18,829 S7: talk about the sermon for the upcoming Sunday. And we 225 00:11:18,830 --> 00:11:20,270 S7: all kind of go through it and we talk about 226 00:11:20,270 --> 00:11:22,270 S7: the theology of it, and we talk about the humanity 227 00:11:22,270 --> 00:11:24,030 S7: of it, and we talk about all the different things 228 00:11:24,030 --> 00:11:26,030 S7: and aspects of it, just to try to help whoever's 229 00:11:26,030 --> 00:11:29,390 S7: speaking formulate what they're going to say on that Sunday. Well, 230 00:11:29,390 --> 00:11:31,270 S7: in this I was in this group for several years. 231 00:11:31,990 --> 00:11:34,750 S7: And in this group, I mean, I'm one of those guys. 232 00:11:34,750 --> 00:11:36,950 S7: I just I say the same thing over and over, 233 00:11:36,950 --> 00:11:38,469 S7: I think. And I just kept talking about the Holy 234 00:11:38,470 --> 00:11:41,350 S7: Spirit does this and the Holy Spirit does that. And, um, 235 00:11:41,350 --> 00:11:44,150 S7: one of my pastors, guy love absolutely love him and 236 00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:46,670 S7: he loves me. But we this was a point where 237 00:11:46,670 --> 00:11:48,429 S7: we would differ. And he would say to me, well, 238 00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:50,910 S7: you know, Mike, the Holy Spirit can't do everything for you. 239 00:11:50,910 --> 00:11:52,790 S7: And I would say, well, yeah, I think you can. 240 00:11:52,990 --> 00:11:55,150 S7: And this, you know, and over the course of several 241 00:11:55,150 --> 00:11:57,069 S7: years and finally, we're in this meeting one day, the 242 00:11:57,070 --> 00:11:59,590 S7: teaching team meeting, and I said again, something about the 243 00:11:59,590 --> 00:12:02,429 S7: Holy Spirit. And he said again, well, you know, Mike, 244 00:12:02,470 --> 00:12:04,630 S7: the Holy Spirit can't do everything for you. And it 245 00:12:04,630 --> 00:12:07,310 S7: just irritated me so much. I had about a 30 246 00:12:07,309 --> 00:12:10,070 S7: minute drive going home, and I was driving home, and 247 00:12:10,070 --> 00:12:11,550 S7: I was irritated and I was praying about it, and 248 00:12:11,550 --> 00:12:13,550 S7: I was like, finally I was like, you know what? 249 00:12:13,790 --> 00:12:15,790 S7: I'm just going to find out exactly what the Holy 250 00:12:15,790 --> 00:12:19,070 S7: Spirit does and doesn't do. So that was kind of 251 00:12:19,110 --> 00:12:21,110 S7: the catalyst for it. So I went home and I 252 00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:22,950 S7: started a new study of the Holy Spirit. And I 253 00:12:22,950 --> 00:12:26,670 S7: went through the New Testament, and I isolated every single 254 00:12:26,670 --> 00:12:29,790 S7: scripture that mentions the Holy Spirit by name. Either, you know, 255 00:12:29,870 --> 00:12:32,630 S7: Holy Spirit or Capital S spirit, or one of the 256 00:12:32,630 --> 00:12:35,430 S7: synonyms for the Holy Spirit, like advocate or counselor. And 257 00:12:35,470 --> 00:12:38,990 S7: I cross-referenced them with, uh, with the Greek words, make 258 00:12:38,990 --> 00:12:40,190 S7: sure I got them all. And I ended up with 259 00:12:40,190 --> 00:12:43,950 S7: a list of 246 scriptures that mention the Holy Spirit 260 00:12:43,950 --> 00:12:46,550 S7: by name. So I was looking at it and I 261 00:12:46,550 --> 00:12:48,309 S7: was like, well, um, if I want to know what 262 00:12:48,309 --> 00:12:51,030 S7: the Holy Spirit does, then I need to understand what 263 00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:52,750 S7: the verb is in each of these scriptures. If the 264 00:12:52,750 --> 00:12:54,829 S7: Holy Spirit is the subject, the verb tells us what 265 00:12:54,830 --> 00:12:57,190 S7: the subject is doing. So I spent some time and 266 00:12:57,190 --> 00:12:59,390 S7: I went through and I underlined the verb in every 267 00:12:59,630 --> 00:13:03,470 S7: single scripture, and that gave me a pretty interesting picture. 268 00:13:03,470 --> 00:13:05,150 S7: So then I thought, well, I need to look at 269 00:13:05,150 --> 00:13:08,110 S7: this more. I printed out every, every scripture and I 270 00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:09,829 S7: pasted it onto a three by five cards. So I 271 00:13:09,830 --> 00:13:13,270 S7: had 246 three by five cards, all talking about the 272 00:13:13,270 --> 00:13:15,230 S7: Holy Spirit. And I didn't have any room in my 273 00:13:15,230 --> 00:13:16,670 S7: house where I could lay them all out and look 274 00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:19,150 S7: at them. So I went to the I went to 275 00:13:19,150 --> 00:13:21,469 S7: the library where they have this giant table. I went 276 00:13:21,470 --> 00:13:23,070 S7: there two days in a row, and I just laid 277 00:13:23,070 --> 00:13:25,950 S7: out all these cards on the table, 246 of them, 278 00:13:26,429 --> 00:13:29,110 S7: and I started reading through them and organizing them according 279 00:13:29,150 --> 00:13:32,470 S7: to categories and themes. And when I was done, I 280 00:13:32,470 --> 00:13:37,430 S7: had 11 stacks of themes that talked about things that 281 00:13:37,429 --> 00:13:41,630 S7: the Holy Spirit does with us. And, uh, those became 282 00:13:41,630 --> 00:13:44,830 S7: the 11 chapters in this book. And after I had 283 00:13:44,830 --> 00:13:48,189 S7: those 11 stacks, I thought, well, if this is what 284 00:13:48,190 --> 00:13:52,150 S7: the Holy Spirit does, can I understand anything about how 285 00:13:52,150 --> 00:13:55,309 S7: the Holy Spirit does what he does? So I went 286 00:13:55,309 --> 00:13:57,829 S7: back through him all over again, all 240 scriptures. And 287 00:13:57,830 --> 00:14:00,670 S7: I came to the conclusion that the Holy Spirit works 288 00:14:00,670 --> 00:14:05,870 S7: in us in three ways. He works in, uh, in 289 00:14:05,870 --> 00:14:08,350 S7: us in doing things that we cannot do for ourselves, 290 00:14:08,350 --> 00:14:11,910 S7: invisible things like adopting us or setting us free in 291 00:14:11,910 --> 00:14:15,110 S7: those kinds of things. Uh, redeeming our souls. Then he 292 00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:18,110 S7: also works with us. Uh, and those are things that 293 00:14:18,110 --> 00:14:21,630 S7: he does, uh, with our cooperation. He takes the lead, 294 00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:24,230 S7: we cooperate. And that's how we live the Christian life. 295 00:14:24,390 --> 00:14:27,430 S7: And then he also works through us. These are the 296 00:14:27,430 --> 00:14:31,110 S7: ways that he demonstrates Christ and the glory of Christ 297 00:14:31,390 --> 00:14:33,590 S7: in our daily lives. Through the gifts of the spirit 298 00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:35,710 S7: and the fruit of the spirit, and the ways that 299 00:14:35,710 --> 00:14:40,670 S7: his talents and, uh, personalities are made perfect in us. 300 00:14:40,790 --> 00:14:45,110 S7: So God works in us, with us and through us. 301 00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:47,270 S7: And so then that became the three sections of the 302 00:14:47,270 --> 00:14:50,310 S7: book which covered the 11 chapters of the book, which 303 00:14:50,310 --> 00:14:52,750 S7: all started because I was annoyed at my pastor for 304 00:14:52,750 --> 00:14:56,270 S7: telling me that the Holy Spirit couldn't do everything for me. 305 00:14:57,710 --> 00:15:00,590 S1: Wow. Thank you. I'm glad you had that experience because 306 00:15:00,590 --> 00:15:02,790 S1: we are the better for it. And I like the 307 00:15:02,790 --> 00:15:04,470 S1: way that you laid the book out in the three 308 00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:07,590 S1: ways under the canopy of, in, with and through. So 309 00:15:07,590 --> 00:15:09,630 S1: let me let me start with the way you do. 310 00:15:09,630 --> 00:15:11,710 S1: And I'm going to tell my friends right up front, 311 00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:15,230 S1: even with the gift of Mike's time, which is irreplaceable, 312 00:15:15,230 --> 00:15:17,070 S1: I can't give it back to him. I'm not. This 313 00:15:17,070 --> 00:15:19,310 S1: is not a fireside chat or a book review. This 314 00:15:19,310 --> 00:15:22,550 S1: is a catalyst for you thinking critically and biblically about 315 00:15:22,550 --> 00:15:24,750 S1: the person of the Holy Spirit. And so I want 316 00:15:24,750 --> 00:15:26,350 S1: to go through some of these points, but I am 317 00:15:26,350 --> 00:15:28,710 S1: at the 35,000 foot level. I want you to do 318 00:15:28,710 --> 00:15:30,430 S1: the deep dive, which is why I have a link 319 00:15:30,430 --> 00:15:32,510 S1: to the book on my website so that you can 320 00:15:32,510 --> 00:15:34,070 S1: get a copy and you can do it. Maybe this 321 00:15:34,070 --> 00:15:36,110 S1: is going to be your study for this year. So 322 00:15:36,110 --> 00:15:39,030 S1: those abysmal numbers of up to 50% believing that the 323 00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:42,070 S1: Holy Spirit isn't real, why in the world would you 324 00:15:42,110 --> 00:15:45,110 S1: not tap into a power source to use Billy Graham 325 00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:47,270 S1: again that God has given us? In fact, Mike, let 326 00:15:47,270 --> 00:15:49,030 S1: me just linger there for a minute when Jesus makes 327 00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:51,830 S1: this stunning statement about it's better for you that I go, 328 00:15:51,830 --> 00:15:53,750 S1: but I'm going to leave you with a comforter. First 329 00:15:53,750 --> 00:15:56,590 S1: of all, my first response to that is, oh, how 330 00:15:56,590 --> 00:15:59,030 S1: he loves you and me. He didn't leave us alone. 331 00:15:59,030 --> 00:16:01,350 S1: He didn't leave us without his word. That lamp unto 332 00:16:01,350 --> 00:16:03,190 S1: our feet and a light unto our path. But he 333 00:16:03,190 --> 00:16:06,590 S1: didn't leave us without the ability to know how to 334 00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:09,390 S1: make the right choices that are God honoring and are 335 00:16:09,390 --> 00:16:12,110 S1: beneficial to us, because he's a good father that gives 336 00:16:12,110 --> 00:16:14,590 S1: us his statutes so that we will know what life 337 00:16:14,590 --> 00:16:17,190 S1: is like to live abundantly. So he makes that statement 338 00:16:17,190 --> 00:16:19,030 S1: and it's almost hard. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. 339 00:16:19,070 --> 00:16:20,710 S1: And I bet a whole lot of people listening to 340 00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:22,750 S1: us all across the country would say, oh, no, I'd 341 00:16:22,750 --> 00:16:25,590 S1: rather see Jesus than to know him through the power 342 00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:27,790 S1: of the Holy Spirit. And yet he says, it's better. 343 00:16:27,790 --> 00:16:29,030 S1: Why do you think he says that? 344 00:16:30,190 --> 00:16:33,590 S7: Well, here's what I here's what I think. First of all, 345 00:16:33,630 --> 00:16:35,750 S7: I'm going to pick up on something you said earlier 346 00:16:35,750 --> 00:16:38,030 S7: about maybe somebody will do this as a take this 347 00:16:38,030 --> 00:16:40,870 S7: book as a study for the year. I did include 348 00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:42,990 S7: after each chapter at the end of each chapter some 349 00:16:43,030 --> 00:16:44,910 S7: discussion questions. So if you want to do it as 350 00:16:44,910 --> 00:16:47,310 S7: a study group with a friend at a coffee shop, 351 00:16:47,510 --> 00:16:49,430 S7: or with a small group at your home, or even 352 00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:52,030 S7: with your family, there are questions you can use to 353 00:16:52,350 --> 00:16:54,870 S7: discuss it. But now we're talking about why it's better 354 00:16:54,870 --> 00:16:58,350 S7: to have the Holy Spirit here today instead of Christ. 355 00:16:58,390 --> 00:17:01,510 S7: We see that Christ. Oh, I hear the music. Let's 356 00:17:01,510 --> 00:17:02,830 S7: talk about this after the commercial. 357 00:17:03,230 --> 00:17:05,430 S1: That's a pro. Ladies and gentlemen, in action. You just 358 00:17:05,430 --> 00:17:07,950 S1: saw that Mike Nappa is with us. He's written the book. 359 00:17:07,950 --> 00:17:10,750 S1: It doesn't have to be this hard. It's a great 360 00:17:10,750 --> 00:17:14,310 S1: picture of a turtle upside down. How we are transformed 361 00:17:14,310 --> 00:17:17,110 S1: by the Holy Spirit. So we're going to continue in 362 00:17:17,150 --> 00:17:19,550 S1: with through. Hang on to those three words as we 363 00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:21,950 S1: dig deeper into who the Holy Spirit is and what 364 00:17:21,950 --> 00:17:52,619 S1: he is doing for us back after this. We're visiting 365 00:17:52,619 --> 00:17:54,740 S1: with Mike Nappa, who's written the book. It doesn't have 366 00:17:54,740 --> 00:17:57,139 S1: to be this hard how we are transformed by the 367 00:17:57,140 --> 00:18:00,899 S1: Holy Spirit. So three sections to the book, three ways 368 00:18:00,900 --> 00:18:03,540 S1: to look at what the Holy Spirit does, the person 369 00:18:03,540 --> 00:18:05,620 S1: of the Holy Spirit. Maybe the more often we say that, 370 00:18:05,619 --> 00:18:08,980 S1: you'll realize that this is a part of the Trinity. 371 00:18:09,020 --> 00:18:11,620 S1: The three are one. First, John, I started with that 372 00:18:11,619 --> 00:18:15,020 S1: verse in you, with you and through you. So, Mike, 373 00:18:15,060 --> 00:18:17,380 S1: you were starting to dig into the in you part 374 00:18:17,380 --> 00:18:19,419 S1: of it and you wisely heard the music. So thank you. 375 00:18:19,420 --> 00:18:20,619 S1: Please pick it up from there. 376 00:18:21,859 --> 00:18:23,780 S7: Well, so we were talking about the idea that the 377 00:18:23,780 --> 00:18:26,420 S7: Holy Spirit is our helper, our advocate, our comforter, and 378 00:18:26,420 --> 00:18:27,780 S7: it was actually good to have the break because I 379 00:18:27,780 --> 00:18:31,300 S7: got to look up John 1416 through 17 where Christ 380 00:18:31,300 --> 00:18:34,020 S7: speaks about that. He's talking to his disciples, and he says, 381 00:18:34,020 --> 00:18:36,060 S7: I will ask the father, and he will give you 382 00:18:36,060 --> 00:18:39,100 S7: another advocate to help you and to be with you forever. 383 00:18:39,140 --> 00:18:42,660 S7: The spirit of truth. So when Christ calls the Holy 384 00:18:42,660 --> 00:18:45,820 S7: Spirit our advocate, the ancient meaning of that word carried 385 00:18:46,100 --> 00:18:52,619 S7: all the ideas that we see in our modern translations comforter, counselor, helper, encourager, supporter, 386 00:18:52,740 --> 00:18:56,620 S7: those kinds of things. But the overarching, the overarching idea 387 00:18:56,660 --> 00:19:01,780 S7: there is that this advocate is one who takes responsibility 388 00:19:02,020 --> 00:19:05,460 S7: for another's well-being. That means that the Holy Spirit, as 389 00:19:05,460 --> 00:19:09,780 S7: our advocate, is one who takes responsibility for our well-being, 390 00:19:09,780 --> 00:19:13,180 S7: which includes both our blessing and our discipline, so that 391 00:19:13,180 --> 00:19:16,500 S7: he will show us where to go, how to walk, 392 00:19:16,660 --> 00:19:21,020 S7: what to do. Our job, then, is, as Christians, is 393 00:19:21,020 --> 00:19:23,540 S7: not to lead the Holy Spirit into our life, but 394 00:19:23,540 --> 00:19:26,900 S7: to let the Holy Spirit lead us into his life. Uh, 395 00:19:26,940 --> 00:19:30,139 S7: our job isn't to strike out on our own, and 396 00:19:30,140 --> 00:19:32,900 S7: let our own will be the strength of our Christian life. 397 00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:36,660 S7: But it's to cooperate with his will so that he 398 00:19:36,660 --> 00:19:41,100 S7: does and we react, he works and we respond. He 399 00:19:41,100 --> 00:19:43,820 S7: leads and we cooperate. This is what it talks about 400 00:19:43,820 --> 00:19:46,619 S7: when we're talking about the Holy Spirit as our advocate 401 00:19:46,619 --> 00:19:48,659 S7: and our helper. Do I have time to tell a 402 00:19:48,660 --> 00:19:49,460 S7: little story about. 403 00:19:49,460 --> 00:19:50,660 S1: That, please? Yes, please. 404 00:19:51,260 --> 00:19:54,900 S7: So my grandfather, when he came to America, he was 405 00:19:54,900 --> 00:19:58,900 S7: ten years old back in 1920. And he was, uh, 406 00:19:58,900 --> 00:20:02,979 S7: he was in my family then, was Islamic. As he 407 00:20:02,980 --> 00:20:07,140 S7: grew older and my mother became Christian in the 1950s. 408 00:20:07,140 --> 00:20:09,260 S7: And then I came along. And most of my family 409 00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:13,740 S7: is Christian now. But my grandfather, as he in his adulthood, 410 00:20:13,980 --> 00:20:17,940 S7: he converted from Islam to Christianity in his old age. 411 00:20:17,940 --> 00:20:20,940 S7: He started going to a church about two blocks from 412 00:20:20,940 --> 00:20:24,900 S7: his home in, in a little town in Oklahoma. And uh, 413 00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:27,419 S7: then as he got even older and he, he was 414 00:20:27,619 --> 00:20:29,940 S7: he lived to be 95. But when he was 94 415 00:20:29,940 --> 00:20:32,699 S7: years old, he had a stroke. Uh, and because of 416 00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:35,300 S7: the stroke, he was bedridden. He was no longer able 417 00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:38,740 S7: to get up and move around. And, um, finally, about 418 00:20:38,740 --> 00:20:41,859 S7: a year later, he died and, uh, I went back 419 00:20:41,859 --> 00:20:45,100 S7: home for the funeral, and I'm sitting in my grandmother's 420 00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:47,140 S7: house and we're talking, and all of a sudden, this 421 00:20:47,140 --> 00:20:50,740 S7: big white man shows up at the front door, and, uh, 422 00:20:50,740 --> 00:20:52,940 S7: I'm just gonna say it, uh, based on where you 423 00:20:52,940 --> 00:20:53,740 S7: came from, the book. 424 00:20:54,220 --> 00:20:54,660 S1: You say. 425 00:20:54,660 --> 00:20:58,419 S7: It now. Okay? Just, I mean, and it's my own fault, 426 00:20:58,420 --> 00:21:00,020 S7: but I just. I looked at him, and I saw 427 00:21:00,020 --> 00:21:02,420 S7: a redneck. I just saw. And I have had bad 428 00:21:02,420 --> 00:21:07,020 S7: experiences with people like that before, and so, um, I 429 00:21:07,020 --> 00:21:08,820 S7: didn't I didn't even remember. I didn't even bother to 430 00:21:08,820 --> 00:21:11,220 S7: learn his name. But after a few minutes, I noticed 431 00:21:11,220 --> 00:21:14,140 S7: that my family just absolutely adored this big white guy. Uh, 432 00:21:14,140 --> 00:21:16,580 S7: and he seemed to have genuine affection for them as well. 433 00:21:16,580 --> 00:21:18,580 S7: So he stayed for about half an hour and talked 434 00:21:18,580 --> 00:21:20,419 S7: to them and hugged and all this stuff. And then 435 00:21:20,420 --> 00:21:23,020 S7: he left, and I was sitting there on the couch 436 00:21:23,060 --> 00:21:24,780 S7: next to my grandmother, and she puts her hand on 437 00:21:24,780 --> 00:21:27,179 S7: my knee and she says, Mikey, that man, he loved you. 438 00:21:27,220 --> 00:21:31,300 S7: He loved you. Oh, we called my grandfather JD, which is, uh, 439 00:21:31,340 --> 00:21:35,060 S7: Arabic for grandfather. She said, that man loved you. And 440 00:21:35,060 --> 00:21:37,820 S7: I'm like, okay, that's nice, whatever. And she's like, every 441 00:21:37,820 --> 00:21:40,260 S7: Sunday he came and took him to church and I'm like, oh, 442 00:21:40,300 --> 00:21:43,340 S7: that's really nice. And I looked across and my aunt 443 00:21:43,340 --> 00:21:45,340 S7: was kind of annoyed with me and she says, Mikey, 444 00:21:45,380 --> 00:21:48,180 S7: you don't understand. I'm like, what? She said. He carried 445 00:21:48,420 --> 00:21:52,260 S7: your jindi. I'm like, what? And she said, every Sunday morning, 446 00:21:52,260 --> 00:21:55,459 S7: rain or shine, uh, he would come to the house. 447 00:21:55,619 --> 00:21:58,100 S7: He'd walk into his room and then gently pick him 448 00:21:58,100 --> 00:22:01,460 S7: up in his arms, and then he would walk, uh, 449 00:22:01,460 --> 00:22:04,500 S7: your the two blocks of church. He'd set him down 450 00:22:04,500 --> 00:22:07,340 S7: on the front. Front pew. They'd have church. And then 451 00:22:07,340 --> 00:22:10,100 S7: when church was over, he'd pick him up again. He 452 00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:12,980 S7: would carry your those two blocks back to the house 453 00:22:12,980 --> 00:22:16,940 S7: and lay him gently back in bed. And I thought, oh, man, 454 00:22:16,980 --> 00:22:19,220 S7: I totally first of all, I thought I totally misjudged 455 00:22:19,220 --> 00:22:23,179 S7: this guy because of my own prejudice and bias. So 456 00:22:23,460 --> 00:22:26,580 S7: that was a problem. But when I heard that story, 457 00:22:26,619 --> 00:22:28,860 S7: I thought, you know what? I think this is what 458 00:22:28,859 --> 00:22:32,980 S7: the Holy Spirit does for me because I can't do 459 00:22:32,980 --> 00:22:35,619 S7: all the things that the Christ Christ has called me 460 00:22:35,619 --> 00:22:37,820 S7: to do. I mean, he told me Matthew five. He said, 461 00:22:37,859 --> 00:22:40,500 S7: be perfect. Therefore, as your father in heaven is perfect, 462 00:22:40,500 --> 00:22:42,219 S7: there's no way I can do that. There's no way 463 00:22:42,220 --> 00:22:44,300 S7: I can spend every moment of every day doing the 464 00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:47,260 S7: right thing, always being right. Um, but the Holy Spirit 465 00:22:47,260 --> 00:22:51,540 S7: can and the Holy Spirit does. And so my responsibility then, 466 00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:54,140 S7: as a believer in Christ and a follower of Jesus, 467 00:22:54,140 --> 00:22:57,980 S7: is to let the Holy Spirit do what my grandfather 468 00:22:57,980 --> 00:23:01,820 S7: let that pastor do. And that is not to not 469 00:23:01,820 --> 00:23:04,460 S7: to fight him, not to argue with him, not to 470 00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:06,340 S7: not to get in his way as he's picking me 471 00:23:06,340 --> 00:23:09,820 S7: up and talking comfortably with me and carrying me through 472 00:23:09,820 --> 00:23:13,060 S7: this daily life of hardship and weakness and illness and 473 00:23:13,060 --> 00:23:17,899 S7: all those things. My responsibility is simply to cooperate. Uh, 474 00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:21,660 S7: if he's leading and I'm cooperating, I can live this 475 00:23:21,660 --> 00:23:24,300 S7: Christian life. If he's not, if I'm trying to do 476 00:23:24,300 --> 00:23:27,300 S7: it myself, it's an impossible task. It'll never happen. And 477 00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:29,100 S7: so this is what I'm thinking of when I'm talking 478 00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:30,979 S7: about how the Holy Spirit works with us and how 479 00:23:30,980 --> 00:23:35,780 S7: we can work in his grace and in his safety. Uh, 480 00:23:35,780 --> 00:23:38,179 S7: it's simply that picture of of an old of a 481 00:23:38,180 --> 00:23:42,460 S7: big white man carrying my little tiny grandfather, uh, two 482 00:23:42,460 --> 00:23:45,540 S7: blocks to church. Um, that's that's what we're talking about. 483 00:23:45,540 --> 00:23:47,300 S7: And I realized I kind of slipped into the whole 484 00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:50,020 S7: idea of exploring with the spirit does with us, uh, 485 00:23:50,020 --> 00:23:52,100 S7: rather than in us, so we can talk more about 486 00:23:52,140 --> 00:23:55,060 S7: in us in a second. But this is this is 487 00:23:55,060 --> 00:23:58,219 S7: what I think we have for us, is that Christ 488 00:23:58,540 --> 00:24:01,100 S7: here is our is given us His Holy Spirit so 489 00:24:01,100 --> 00:24:03,700 S7: that we are never alone and we're never weak. Yeah. 490 00:24:03,740 --> 00:24:05,180 S7: Anything is possible with him. 491 00:24:05,380 --> 00:24:08,820 S1: Amen and amen. Boy, I hope this conversation is comforting 492 00:24:08,859 --> 00:24:10,820 S1: to you that you understand how much he loves us. 493 00:24:10,820 --> 00:24:13,940 S1: By the way, that wonderful picture of your grandfather being 494 00:24:13,940 --> 00:24:16,220 S1: carried like that. You know, when Jesus tells us that 495 00:24:16,220 --> 00:24:19,420 S1: his yoke is easy and his burden is light, he's 496 00:24:19,420 --> 00:24:21,940 S1: carrying us. So you can resonate with that story that 497 00:24:21,940 --> 00:24:24,379 S1: Mike just told. The book is written by Mike Nappa. 498 00:24:24,380 --> 00:24:26,820 S1: It's called It Doesn't Have to Be This Hard How 499 00:24:26,820 --> 00:24:29,940 S1: We are Transformed by the Holy Spirit. Oh, so much 500 00:24:30,020 --> 00:24:32,300 S1: more in this book. Stick around. We'll continue right after this. 501 00:25:06,580 --> 00:25:08,740 S1: Jesus told us to go into the world and not 502 00:25:08,740 --> 00:25:10,380 S1: run away from it. And he didn't say it would 503 00:25:10,380 --> 00:25:12,300 S1: be easy in the market with Janet. Partial is a 504 00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:14,540 S1: program designed to come alongside and walk with you into 505 00:25:14,540 --> 00:25:17,500 S1: the marketplace of ideas. Partial partners are those friends who 506 00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:20,060 S1: support our program on a regular monthly basis. They know 507 00:25:20,060 --> 00:25:22,780 S1: the mandate of influencing and occupying until he comes. So 508 00:25:22,780 --> 00:25:25,419 S1: why don't you become part of the inner circle of support? 509 00:25:25,420 --> 00:25:29,020 S1: Call 877 Janet 58 or go to in the market 510 00:25:29,020 --> 00:25:33,979 S1: with Janet Parshall. We're visiting with Mike Nappa, who's an 511 00:25:33,980 --> 00:25:37,820 S1: award winning theologian known for writing coffee shop theology. That's 512 00:25:37,820 --> 00:25:41,500 S1: evident now. Have you been listening since the beginning? Mike 513 00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:44,260 S1: does a wonderful job of taking big theological ideas and 514 00:25:44,260 --> 00:25:46,699 S1: putting them down there in enjoyable pieces for us to 515 00:25:46,740 --> 00:25:49,900 S1: understand and apply to our life. He likes to help 516 00:25:49,900 --> 00:25:52,340 S1: Christians when it comes to Christian living and devotional books. 517 00:25:52,340 --> 00:25:55,139 S1: He's a best selling author. His works have been translated 518 00:25:55,140 --> 00:25:58,379 S1: into multiple languages. He has. He has millions of copies 519 00:25:58,380 --> 00:26:01,180 S1: that have been sold worldwide. And he joins us today 520 00:26:01,180 --> 00:26:02,820 S1: as the author of the book. It doesn't have to 521 00:26:02,820 --> 00:26:05,580 S1: Be This Hard. How we are transformed by the Holy 522 00:26:05,580 --> 00:26:09,540 S1: Spirit in, with, and through are the three attributes of 523 00:26:09,540 --> 00:26:11,419 S1: the Holy Spirit that we're trusting. But I was thinking 524 00:26:11,420 --> 00:26:13,060 S1: during the break, Mike, I want to get this out 525 00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:15,860 S1: of the way, trim these bramble bushes because I will 526 00:26:15,859 --> 00:26:17,900 S1: get emails. And if I had to open the phone 527 00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:20,780 S1: lines for questions this hour, I guarantee you it would 528 00:26:20,780 --> 00:26:23,260 S1: be one of the very first questions that we would get. 529 00:26:23,260 --> 00:26:26,220 S1: And that's this whole idea of, quote, blaspheming of the 530 00:26:26,220 --> 00:26:29,300 S1: Holy Spirit. So let me contextualize Jesus is in Mark 531 00:26:29,300 --> 00:26:33,060 S1: 328 through 30. Truly, I say to you, all sins 532 00:26:33,060 --> 00:26:37,260 S1: will be forgiven the children of man and whatever blasphemes 533 00:26:37,260 --> 00:26:42,220 S1: they utter. But those blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never 534 00:26:42,220 --> 00:26:45,740 S1: has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin. Now, 535 00:26:45,740 --> 00:26:47,780 S1: I gotta tell you, there are a lot of people 536 00:26:47,780 --> 00:26:50,540 S1: who don't know what blaspheming the Holy Spirit means. They're 537 00:26:50,660 --> 00:26:54,500 S1: deathly afraid, understandably, of this is an unforgivable sin. It's 538 00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:57,180 S1: an eternal sin. And I've had a myriad of people 539 00:26:57,180 --> 00:26:59,020 S1: in my decades in front of a microphone who have 540 00:26:59,020 --> 00:27:02,260 S1: given a litany of responses as to what constitutes the 541 00:27:02,260 --> 00:27:04,540 S1: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. So here's the paradox. We 542 00:27:04,540 --> 00:27:06,219 S1: don't know who the Holy Spirit is, but we're deathly 543 00:27:06,220 --> 00:27:10,459 S1: afraid of blaspheming it. Okay, so so put that all together. 544 00:27:10,460 --> 00:27:13,540 S1: But as a good theologian, explain that verse, because that's 545 00:27:13,540 --> 00:27:15,220 S1: a sticky wicket for a lot of people. 546 00:27:15,660 --> 00:27:18,500 S7: Yeah, yeah, this is the nuclear option. It's the, um, 547 00:27:18,619 --> 00:27:22,899 S7: the unpardonable sin. So, uh, I gotta tell you, uh, 548 00:27:22,900 --> 00:27:26,500 S7: I'm not 100% certain what exactly blaspheming the Holy Spirit is. 549 00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:27,980 S7: But I can tell you what the options are, what 550 00:27:27,980 --> 00:27:31,180 S7: the theories are at this point. Um, we know that 551 00:27:31,180 --> 00:27:33,540 S7: this is kind of the choice that you make, uh, 552 00:27:33,540 --> 00:27:35,899 S7: when you are certain you want absolutely nothing to do 553 00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:39,500 S7: with God. Uh, we also know it's exceptionally rare. And 554 00:27:39,940 --> 00:27:42,460 S7: so you have to really, really want to do it. 555 00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:45,739 S7: If you're worried about it, you probably have. Well, you 556 00:27:45,740 --> 00:27:48,300 S7: can't you can't commit blasphemy. The Holy Spirit, if you're 557 00:27:48,300 --> 00:27:50,780 S7: feeling guilt over the idea that you might, because that's 558 00:27:50,780 --> 00:27:53,379 S7: the Holy Spirit working in you, uh, to convict you 559 00:27:53,380 --> 00:28:00,580 S7: of sin. There are three main theories. Uh, maybe four, five, one, two, three. 560 00:28:00,619 --> 00:28:02,620 S7: I'm looking I'm going to look it up now. Okay. 561 00:28:02,619 --> 00:28:05,740 S7: There's five. There's five main theories about what it means 562 00:28:05,740 --> 00:28:08,620 S7: to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. The first was, uh, first 563 00:28:08,619 --> 00:28:11,220 S7: is that it was a sin specific to the Pharisees 564 00:28:11,220 --> 00:28:14,899 S7: of Jesus day because they claimed Jesus was empowered by Satan. 565 00:28:14,900 --> 00:28:18,020 S7: So then the idea that since they they looked at 566 00:28:18,020 --> 00:28:21,659 S7: the miracles of God and said that that Satan did them, uh, 567 00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:24,420 S7: then they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit and therefore they 568 00:28:24,460 --> 00:28:27,010 S7: were condemned. And then the idea with that one is 569 00:28:27,010 --> 00:28:30,730 S7: that it's limited only to the Pharisees of Jesus day. Uh, 570 00:28:30,730 --> 00:28:33,649 S7: theory number two is that it's the stubborn unwillingness to 571 00:28:33,690 --> 00:28:36,330 S7: repent all the way until death. So this just means 572 00:28:36,330 --> 00:28:38,969 S7: that you die without giving your life to Christ. So 573 00:28:38,970 --> 00:28:43,090 S7: you have had your entire life. Um, to turn to Christ. 574 00:28:43,090 --> 00:28:46,490 S7: And then one day you die and wow, you didn't 575 00:28:46,490 --> 00:28:48,650 S7: do it. So this is kind of the popular this 576 00:28:48,650 --> 00:28:51,330 S7: is probably the most popular evangelical theory of what the 577 00:28:51,330 --> 00:28:55,010 S7: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is. The third, uh, theory 578 00:28:55,010 --> 00:28:58,650 S7: is that it's just a conscious, malicious, and willful rejection, 579 00:28:59,050 --> 00:29:03,490 S7: along with slandering, uh, of the Holy Spirit. This is, uh, 580 00:29:04,050 --> 00:29:08,250 S7: more the reformed or the Calvinist, uh, kind of perspective. And, um, 581 00:29:08,250 --> 00:29:13,050 S7: it's the idea that, I mean, we might say there 582 00:29:13,050 --> 00:29:16,770 S7: are some really radical atheists today who, who, if this 583 00:29:16,770 --> 00:29:20,410 S7: were the definition of if this were surely a definition 584 00:29:20,410 --> 00:29:22,690 S7: of blasphemy, Holy Spirit, this could be it where they 585 00:29:22,690 --> 00:29:26,010 S7: say they want absolutely nothing to do with Christ. Uh, it's. 586 00:29:26,610 --> 00:29:30,210 S7: They call him that Satan called truth to lie and Christ, Satan, etc.. 587 00:29:30,250 --> 00:29:33,570 S7: It's it's that's a hard. It's just a hard no 588 00:29:33,570 --> 00:29:38,450 S7: on Christ. Um, I'm not sure that I follow that one, 589 00:29:38,450 --> 00:29:43,730 S7: but I understand it. Uh, the fourth theory is, um, 590 00:29:44,370 --> 00:29:48,170 S7: the idea that, uh, we recognize Jesus, but we don't 591 00:29:48,170 --> 00:29:52,570 S7: recognize him as, uh, as God. We we just reject 592 00:29:52,570 --> 00:29:55,210 S7: that aspect of it. We say, sure. He lived. Uh, yeah, 593 00:29:55,210 --> 00:29:57,970 S7: he was. He maybe he did some weird things, but 594 00:29:57,970 --> 00:29:59,370 S7: there's no way he could be God. No way he 595 00:29:59,370 --> 00:30:02,050 S7: could be our savior. Um, this kind of goes along 596 00:30:02,050 --> 00:30:04,610 S7: with the idea of the the second theory, that stubborn 597 00:30:04,610 --> 00:30:09,130 S7: unwillingness to, um, to turn your life over to Christ. Uh, 598 00:30:09,130 --> 00:30:12,490 S7: but it's it's considered a separate theory, and it's it's 599 00:30:12,530 --> 00:30:15,250 S7: it's fourth. The fifth one is the idea that you 600 00:30:15,290 --> 00:30:17,530 S7: deliberately honor Satan for the work of the Holy Spirit, 601 00:30:17,530 --> 00:30:20,330 S7: which relates to that first theory that the of the Pharisees, 602 00:30:20,330 --> 00:30:22,170 S7: except then applies it to us, that we see the 603 00:30:22,210 --> 00:30:25,370 S7: work of Christ in someone's life today or in our 604 00:30:25,370 --> 00:30:28,330 S7: lives today, and we attribute it to Satan. That's just 605 00:30:28,330 --> 00:30:32,810 S7: such a vague, generic thought that I kind of disagree 606 00:30:32,810 --> 00:30:35,330 S7: with that one, but that is one of the ideas 607 00:30:35,650 --> 00:30:41,530 S7: that's popular. Me, myself, uh, I think I, I kind 608 00:30:41,570 --> 00:30:44,890 S7: of come down to the idea that, um, that conscious, 609 00:30:45,170 --> 00:30:49,170 S7: willful decision not to turn to Jesus that lasts all 610 00:30:49,170 --> 00:30:51,530 S7: the way to the end of your life. That's probably 611 00:30:51,530 --> 00:30:55,970 S7: where I'd go. But I gotta tell you, I'm not certain. Uh, fortunately, 612 00:30:55,970 --> 00:30:58,090 S7: I don't need to know because, um, I have the 613 00:30:58,090 --> 00:31:02,690 S7: Holy Spirit in me. Amen. Honestly, most, most people, if 614 00:31:02,690 --> 00:31:05,330 S7: they are thinking about if they have any kind of 615 00:31:05,370 --> 00:31:08,610 S7: conscience that prompts them to consider God, uh, then they're 616 00:31:08,610 --> 00:31:11,010 S7: not guilty of blaspheming the Holy Spirit because it is 617 00:31:11,010 --> 00:31:14,210 S7: the Holy Spirit that brings about that conviction for sin. 618 00:31:14,250 --> 00:31:17,010 S1: Yeah. Amen. Well, I come down exactly where you do 619 00:31:17,010 --> 00:31:19,170 S1: as well. And I was always raised that it makes 620 00:31:19,170 --> 00:31:21,730 S1: perfect sense. I mean, what is the ultimate blaspheming. You 621 00:31:21,730 --> 00:31:23,770 S1: are not who you say you are and I reject you. 622 00:31:23,810 --> 00:31:25,969 S1: I mean that. That makes sense. But I love what 623 00:31:25,970 --> 00:31:27,930 S1: you said as a comfort to our friends, which is 624 00:31:27,930 --> 00:31:30,610 S1: if you're worrying about doing it, you haven't done it. 625 00:31:30,650 --> 00:31:34,370 S1: So I think that that's the encouragement. And so that 626 00:31:34,370 --> 00:31:36,770 S1: takes me back to the in you, because one of 627 00:31:36,770 --> 00:31:38,570 S1: the four things you write about in that section of 628 00:31:38,570 --> 00:31:40,730 S1: the book, and I love this, is that the Holy 629 00:31:40,730 --> 00:31:44,090 S1: Spirit prizes us. You know, we need to think about 630 00:31:44,090 --> 00:31:45,890 S1: that in the midst of the chaos where we find 631 00:31:45,890 --> 00:31:49,050 S1: ourselves in post-modern America right now. When you say he 632 00:31:49,050 --> 00:31:51,210 S1: prizes us, what does that mean? And how does he 633 00:31:51,250 --> 00:31:51,890 S1: do that? 634 00:31:52,290 --> 00:31:56,290 S7: Yeah. I mean, I gotta tell you, I, I wept 635 00:31:56,290 --> 00:31:58,770 S7: writing this chapter because it was just even though I 636 00:31:58,810 --> 00:32:01,250 S7: had an idea of it really digging into it made 637 00:32:01,250 --> 00:32:04,729 S7: me just grateful for what Christ has done for us. 638 00:32:04,730 --> 00:32:06,650 S7: All right. Can I tell a story again, please? 639 00:32:06,650 --> 00:32:07,130 S1: Please. 640 00:32:07,810 --> 00:32:11,770 S7: Okay. Um. My wife, uh, when she was living, she 641 00:32:11,770 --> 00:32:15,970 S7: passed away in 2016 from cancer. When she was living, 642 00:32:16,130 --> 00:32:19,330 S7: she had this habit where she would, um, make little 643 00:32:19,330 --> 00:32:22,650 S7: videos for our three year old granddaughter. Uh, and they 644 00:32:22,690 --> 00:32:25,450 S7: were just silly videos. And she would, you know, make 645 00:32:25,450 --> 00:32:27,170 S7: a little video and send it to my son, and 646 00:32:27,170 --> 00:32:29,930 S7: he'd give it to his daughter. And and I used 647 00:32:29,930 --> 00:32:31,170 S7: to give her a hard time about it. I'd say, 648 00:32:31,170 --> 00:32:32,770 S7: you know what? You're going to see her tomorrow. She 649 00:32:32,770 --> 00:32:35,050 S7: can't even. She doesn't have a cell phone. It's just 650 00:32:35,050 --> 00:32:36,890 S7: a waste of time for you to do this, blah, blah, blah. 651 00:32:37,250 --> 00:32:40,170 S7: She ignored me and she sent these little videos anyway. Well, 652 00:32:40,210 --> 00:32:43,370 S7: after she passed away, I was cleaning out her phone 653 00:32:43,370 --> 00:32:46,050 S7: and I found one of her videos and it's just 654 00:32:46,050 --> 00:32:49,490 S7: this 19 second video it just talks about. She says, hey, Genevieve, 655 00:32:49,530 --> 00:32:52,530 S7: I heard I missed you today. Uh, but hopefully I'll 656 00:32:52,530 --> 00:32:54,050 S7: see you in 1 or 2 days. And then right 657 00:32:54,050 --> 00:32:58,490 S7: at the very end, she says, I love you. And, um, 658 00:32:58,770 --> 00:33:00,330 S7: I gotta tell you, if you were to ask me 659 00:33:00,330 --> 00:33:03,570 S7: right now what my most precious possession is, it's that 660 00:33:03,570 --> 00:33:07,209 S7: 19 second video and hearing. That's the only place I 661 00:33:07,210 --> 00:33:08,969 S7: have left where I can hear my wife say the 662 00:33:08,970 --> 00:33:11,690 S7: words I love you, which I got so used to 663 00:33:11,730 --> 00:33:13,090 S7: when she was alive. She said it to me first 664 00:33:13,090 --> 00:33:14,730 S7: thing in the morning and last thing before I went 665 00:33:14,730 --> 00:33:16,930 S7: to bed, and then half a dozen times during the day. 666 00:33:16,930 --> 00:33:20,170 S7: So this is the most precious thing that I have. 667 00:33:20,170 --> 00:33:22,370 S7: So you can guess what I have done with that video, right? 668 00:33:22,410 --> 00:33:24,770 S7: I've got a copy on my phone. I've got a 669 00:33:24,770 --> 00:33:27,170 S7: backup copy on another phone. I've got another copy on 670 00:33:27,170 --> 00:33:29,210 S7: a laptop and another one on an external drive. I've 671 00:33:29,210 --> 00:33:31,450 S7: got it probably 5 or 6 different places, because it 672 00:33:31,450 --> 00:33:34,530 S7: would kill me if I were to lose that 19 673 00:33:34,570 --> 00:33:38,290 S7: second video and the voice of my wife saying, I 674 00:33:38,290 --> 00:33:40,330 S7: love you. This is what I'm talking about when I'm 675 00:33:40,330 --> 00:33:45,170 S7: talking about how God prizes us. He takes something about us, 676 00:33:45,170 --> 00:33:47,730 S7: and he sees us as a precious thing, to be 677 00:33:47,730 --> 00:33:50,050 S7: guarded and to be cared for and to be nurtured 678 00:33:50,050 --> 00:33:54,250 S7: and to be helped and to be saved and these 679 00:33:54,250 --> 00:33:58,010 S7: kinds of things. And he takes extreme measures to make 680 00:33:58,050 --> 00:34:01,650 S7: sure that we are. Um, the thing that he can 681 00:34:01,650 --> 00:34:04,250 S7: keep forever. Uh, and then in the book, I talk 682 00:34:04,290 --> 00:34:08,890 S7: about several different aspects of that. Uh, he gives us freedom. 683 00:34:09,410 --> 00:34:11,250 S7: Just yesterday I was talking. Earlier this week, I was 684 00:34:11,250 --> 00:34:14,450 S7: talking to my friend John Sokolowski about this idea of 685 00:34:14,450 --> 00:34:18,969 S7: freedom in Christ. Second Corinthians chapter three. Uh, Apostle Paul says, 686 00:34:18,969 --> 00:34:21,450 S7: where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 687 00:34:21,489 --> 00:34:22,930 S7: This is one of the things that the Holy Spirit 688 00:34:22,930 --> 00:34:25,689 S7: does within us. Because he prizes us. He sets us 689 00:34:25,690 --> 00:34:28,810 S7: free from the power of sin and from the power 690 00:34:28,810 --> 00:34:32,370 S7: of death. Uh, the penalty of sin, which is death. 691 00:34:32,730 --> 00:34:35,810 S7: I was looking at the idea of freedom once when 692 00:34:35,810 --> 00:34:38,050 S7: I was studying this scripture, and I thought, well, what 693 00:34:38,090 --> 00:34:42,170 S7: exactly does that mean? And I went through Scripture and 694 00:34:42,170 --> 00:34:46,210 S7: I came to the conclusion there are five. Five aspects 695 00:34:46,210 --> 00:34:48,890 S7: to the idea of freedom that Christ brings to us. 696 00:34:48,890 --> 00:34:52,690 S7: Do I have time to jump into those? Yes, please. Okay. 697 00:34:52,930 --> 00:34:56,170 S7: I call these the Five Freedoms. Um, you can call 698 00:34:56,170 --> 00:34:58,609 S7: them whatever you want, but we have in the life 699 00:34:58,610 --> 00:35:01,290 S7: of Christ, of the Holy Spirit within us. Uh, we 700 00:35:01,290 --> 00:35:06,890 S7: have freedom from the freedom to the freedom for the 701 00:35:06,890 --> 00:35:10,850 S7: freedom in and the freedom. Because now here's how these 702 00:35:10,850 --> 00:35:14,410 S7: break down. The freedom from is basically emancipation. It's the 703 00:35:14,410 --> 00:35:19,169 S7: idea that we have been, uh, set free in the 704 00:35:19,690 --> 00:35:21,969 S7: in the language of the Gospels. It means we've been 705 00:35:21,969 --> 00:35:25,489 S7: set free from the power of sin over our bodies. Uh, 706 00:35:25,930 --> 00:35:29,850 S7: previously are the only choice we could make was sin. 707 00:35:30,250 --> 00:35:34,290 S7: And so, with the freedom from. We've been set free 708 00:35:35,050 --> 00:35:37,730 S7: from that power. And now we are able to go 709 00:35:37,730 --> 00:35:40,649 S7: into the freedom two, which is the freedom to make 710 00:35:40,650 --> 00:35:45,250 S7: choices that honor God and are good for us. So 711 00:35:46,330 --> 00:35:50,410 S7: this is the idea then it's opportunity. Freedom two is 712 00:35:50,850 --> 00:35:52,250 S7: this is kind of the problem that we had in 713 00:35:52,250 --> 00:35:58,610 S7: America after after the liberation of the slaves in the 1800s. Uh, 714 00:35:58,610 --> 00:36:03,009 S7: we then set about, set out about, um, putting all 715 00:36:03,010 --> 00:36:05,730 S7: the Jim Crow laws in effect and making boundaries and, 716 00:36:05,850 --> 00:36:09,570 S7: and and blocking all the opportunities, uh, against the black 717 00:36:09,730 --> 00:36:13,170 S7: people so that they were no longer allowed to be free. 718 00:36:13,170 --> 00:36:15,529 S7: So they were free in the terms of they were 719 00:36:15,530 --> 00:36:18,770 S7: no longer emancipated, but they were still in bondage to 720 00:36:18,810 --> 00:36:21,290 S7: the idea that they did not have the opportunity to 721 00:36:21,330 --> 00:36:23,330 S7: do this or that. And we'll finish the rest of 722 00:36:23,330 --> 00:36:24,170 S7: these in a second. 723 00:36:24,210 --> 00:36:26,330 S1: Absolutely. Five freedoms I'm going to say them again, and 724 00:36:26,330 --> 00:36:29,170 S1: we'll finish this up on the other side from two 725 00:36:29,210 --> 00:36:32,210 S1: for in because. So Mike just talked to you about 726 00:36:32,210 --> 00:36:36,170 S1: from and two opportunity emancipation. The first one opportunity the 727 00:36:36,170 --> 00:36:37,970 S1: second one. We're going to come back and find out 728 00:36:38,170 --> 00:36:41,890 S1: those other freedoms for in. And because it doesn't have 729 00:36:41,890 --> 00:36:44,570 S1: to be this hard. Mike Napa's brand new book about 730 00:36:44,570 --> 00:36:47,689 S1: the Holy Spirit and how he does transform us more 731 00:36:47,690 --> 00:37:12,450 S1: with Mike right after this. Doesn't have to be this hard. 732 00:37:12,450 --> 00:37:14,810 S1: The new book by Mike Napa. The subtitle How We 733 00:37:14,850 --> 00:37:17,890 S1: are Transformed by the Holy Spirit breaks the book down 734 00:37:17,890 --> 00:37:21,049 S1: beautifully because he's known for his coffee shop theology, which 735 00:37:21,050 --> 00:37:24,770 S1: means he makes it understandable and applicable. Okay. And there's 736 00:37:24,770 --> 00:37:26,250 S1: an art to be able to do that, by the way. 737 00:37:26,250 --> 00:37:29,410 S1: He's hiding his brilliance, and it really and truly comes 738 00:37:29,410 --> 00:37:32,290 S1: through when he teaches us these important ideas. Listen, we 739 00:37:32,290 --> 00:37:34,210 S1: need to know what we believe and why we believe it. 740 00:37:34,210 --> 00:37:36,810 S1: Thank you, Doctor Paul Little for writing that book years ago. 741 00:37:37,050 --> 00:37:39,529 S1: And the directive, scripturally, is to be able to give 742 00:37:39,530 --> 00:37:41,690 S1: a reason for the hope that resides within you. How 743 00:37:41,690 --> 00:37:43,489 S1: can you do that if you don't even understand who 744 00:37:43,530 --> 00:37:46,490 S1: the Holy Spirit is and what he is doing in, with, 745 00:37:46,489 --> 00:37:49,290 S1: and through you? So we were talking about the five 746 00:37:49,330 --> 00:37:52,529 S1: freedoms that we have in the Holy Spirit from that's 747 00:37:52,530 --> 00:37:56,969 S1: emancipation to opportunity. And now there's four in and because 748 00:37:57,010 --> 00:37:58,130 S1: talk to me about that. 749 00:37:58,370 --> 00:38:00,570 S7: Right. So these are just this is just the way 750 00:38:01,090 --> 00:38:03,370 S7: ways that the Holy Spirit prizes you things that he 751 00:38:03,370 --> 00:38:06,410 S7: does in you that you can't do for yourself. And 752 00:38:06,410 --> 00:38:10,290 S7: that's setting us free in these ways. So freedom for 753 00:38:10,530 --> 00:38:12,930 S7: that the Holy Spirit gives us is the gift of purpose. 754 00:38:13,250 --> 00:38:15,930 S7: This is the opportunity to live a life of meaning. 755 00:38:16,370 --> 00:38:19,529 S7: It's the idea that God has not saved us so 756 00:38:19,530 --> 00:38:21,810 S7: that we can now wander through life not knowing what 757 00:38:21,850 --> 00:38:25,609 S7: to do. But he has saved us for spiritual purpose. Uh, 758 00:38:25,610 --> 00:38:28,170 S7: he didn't leave us and then say, go on, be 759 00:38:28,170 --> 00:38:29,969 S7: free and do whatever you want to do. But he 760 00:38:30,010 --> 00:38:32,890 S7: set us apart in a way that elevates us so 761 00:38:32,890 --> 00:38:36,489 S7: that we can live a life of purpose. Um, we 762 00:38:36,530 --> 00:38:39,770 S7: can get up in the morning and say, today my 763 00:38:39,770 --> 00:38:42,690 S7: life has meaning because the Holy Spirit is working through 764 00:38:42,730 --> 00:38:46,170 S7: me and in me and with me to create meaning, 765 00:38:46,330 --> 00:38:49,969 S7: both in me and in those who are around me. Now, 766 00:38:49,969 --> 00:38:53,569 S7: freedom in the next one, uh, is that's the gift 767 00:38:53,570 --> 00:38:56,730 S7: that you get from the spirit when you're when emancipation 768 00:38:56,730 --> 00:39:00,489 S7: is not an option. This is the idea, uh, that 769 00:39:01,050 --> 00:39:04,730 S7: there is a situation which in which you're held captive 770 00:39:04,770 --> 00:39:08,450 S7: that cannot change, but you can still have that same 771 00:39:08,450 --> 00:39:11,969 S7: peace and dignity and power and self-worth, even in the 772 00:39:11,969 --> 00:39:14,569 S7: most oppressive situations. This is the kind of thing that 773 00:39:14,570 --> 00:39:17,450 S7: happened when Joseph, for instance, in the Old Testament, when 774 00:39:17,450 --> 00:39:22,890 S7: he was unjustly imprisoned, or when Jesus was arrested and 775 00:39:22,890 --> 00:39:25,730 S7: given a sham trial and beaten and and taken to 776 00:39:25,770 --> 00:39:29,089 S7: his crucifixion, he still had this peace and this power, 777 00:39:29,130 --> 00:39:31,089 S7: even though he was in a situation that did not 778 00:39:31,090 --> 00:39:34,410 S7: allow emancipation. Paul and Silas are a fun example of this. Uh, 779 00:39:34,410 --> 00:39:37,970 S7: they go preaching. They get beaten, whipped, thrown in chains, 780 00:39:37,969 --> 00:39:39,850 S7: thrown in jail. And so what do they do? They 781 00:39:39,890 --> 00:39:42,130 S7: cry to each other and complain about how bad God's 782 00:39:42,130 --> 00:39:44,130 S7: been to them. Well, no, that's not that's not what 783 00:39:44,130 --> 00:39:47,049 S7: happened at all. Acts. Acts. Chapter 16 tells us that 784 00:39:47,050 --> 00:39:51,209 S7: while they're in there with blood and in chains, they 785 00:39:51,250 --> 00:39:54,209 S7: sang hymns after being tortured. So this is the idea 786 00:39:54,210 --> 00:39:57,810 S7: of freedom in. Is that in whatever circumstance you're in, 787 00:39:57,810 --> 00:40:00,450 S7: if you're in a situation where you're physically disabled or 788 00:40:00,450 --> 00:40:02,930 S7: your health is poor, you're in a situation where your 789 00:40:02,930 --> 00:40:06,530 S7: job stinks or or you're even not able to work 790 00:40:06,530 --> 00:40:08,969 S7: or whatever. Those situations are where you feel you're being 791 00:40:08,969 --> 00:40:12,560 S7: held captive. you still have because of the Holy Spirit 792 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:18,840 S7: freedom in to maintain dignity, self-worth, power and authority, and 793 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,279 S7: all of those kinds of things. Uh, it's like when 794 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,720 S7: Paul said in Second Corinthians, For Christ's sake, I delight 795 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,920 S7: in weakness, in insults and hardships and persecutions and difficulties. 796 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:33,200 S7: For when I am weak, then I'm strong. The final 797 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,520 S7: thing is freedom, because and this is just the idea 798 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:40,240 S7: that Christ has given you all these things, not because 799 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,960 S7: you're so special or great, or that you've done anything. 800 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,440 S7: It's just because he wants to. It's his business, not yours. 801 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,040 S7: You don't even have a choice of whether or not 802 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:49,799 S7: you get to be free once you turn yourself over 803 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,280 S7: to Christ. He makes you free because he wants to. 804 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,560 S7: That's his business. And so this is what freedom because is. 805 00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:00,680 S7: We have been given freedom because Christ gives us that freedom. Uh, 806 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,120 S7: and we see that like in Galatians five, when Paul 807 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:07,240 S7: says it is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Mhm. 808 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,399 S7: You know, what's funny is my friend John John Sokolowski, 809 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,080 S7: he told me, he's like, you're going to be talking 810 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,359 S7: about the five Freedoms on that show this week. And 811 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,000 S7: I'm like, I don't know. People don't always bring that up. 812 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:17,480 S7: And he's like, you trust me, you're going to be 813 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,480 S7: talking about it. So hey, John, if you're listening, I'm fine. Right, buddy? 814 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:21,680 S7: Exactly right. 815 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,080 S1: I'm so glad. I'm so glad. All right, so I. 816 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,600 S1: I don't even feel like we've gotten to the through 817 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,080 S1: you part of it, so let me and maybe maybe 818 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,400 S1: you're touching on that will come out of this question, 819 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,400 S1: which is, you know, for a lot of people, sorry, 820 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,320 S1: we're sloppy. We got a kind of sloppy, westernized Christianity here. 821 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,280 S1: Our numbers show us that our practices show us that. 822 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,080 S1: And we're looking for an on button. Right. I got 823 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,440 S1: a device, I got a screen. I've got some remote. 824 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,000 S1: I want to do this. I want to click into 825 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,080 S1: the power of the Holy Spirit, and then I'll be 826 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,239 S1: on cruise control. And then, Mike, the Holy Spirit can 827 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:53,960 S1: do all those things that you said he's going to 828 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,759 S1: do in with and through me. That is not how 829 00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,839 S1: this happens. So how do we develop the ears on 830 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:03,600 S1: our heart and the sensitivity to learn how to be responsive, 831 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,520 S1: to blessed by, encouraged through all of those things that 832 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,279 S1: are beneficiary when having a relationship with the person of 833 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:11,080 S1: the Holy Spirit. 834 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:16,240 S7: Yeah, yeah. Because you can't, uh, you can't just take 835 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,440 S7: the Holy Spirit and turn them on or off. Right? 836 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,480 S7: There's an example in acts when, uh, Simon, Simon the 837 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,759 S7: magician wanted to buy the power to give the Holy 838 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,800 S7: Spirit to people. And that was just an idiotic thing 839 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,520 S7: to do. So the idea that you can make God 840 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,760 S7: act on your behalf, that you can somehow manipulate him 841 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:36,879 S7: or make him do the things that you want him 842 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,920 S7: to do, that's that's the wrong perspective. Uh, your job 843 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,319 S7: is not to dictate when or what God does in 844 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,080 S7: your life. It's to watch for what he's already doing 845 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:50,279 S7: and follow that, to cooperate with that. Um, we. If 846 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:56,080 S7: we want Christ's activity, it's not because he's not already 847 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,799 S7: working the Holy Spirit. This is the one thing that 848 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,520 S7: really surprised me about this book. Um, and I was 849 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,880 S7: one who really felt strongly the Holy Spirit was active 850 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,759 S7: in the in the Christian life. always anyway. But what 851 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,959 S7: really struck me when I was done with this was like, 852 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:15,279 S7: Holy cow, God's spirit is so constantly active. There's never 853 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,319 S7: a question of whether he's working today or whether he's 854 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,640 S7: working tomorrow. It's always a question of do I understand? 855 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,480 S7: Do I see what he's doing? So we need to 856 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,480 S7: first begin to ask. Ask him, say, what are you 857 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,799 S7: doing today that I can follow? If you start your 858 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,600 S7: day with that question. Lord, what are you doing today 859 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,080 S7: that I can follow? I guarantee you he's going to 860 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,600 S7: give you a place to go. You're going to begin 861 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,799 S7: to see him work in ways that you didn't even 862 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:40,640 S7: notice before. 863 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:41,760 S5: Wow. 864 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:44,480 S1: Let me go back to some basics as well. So 865 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,640 S1: you talked about all those three by five cards and 866 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,200 S1: all of those verses in references. I know it seems 867 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,680 S1: rudimentary and in some respects pedantic, but I don't know 868 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,239 S1: how we crunch numbers here in D.C. so I'm going 869 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,160 S1: back full circle to these numbers. Isn't it imperative we 870 00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:58,960 S1: stay in the word? How can you possibly know who 871 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,359 S1: the Holy Spirit is and what he does if you're 872 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:02,120 S1: not in the word? 873 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,359 S7: Yeah, that's true. And I find that most often when 874 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,080 S7: I need the Holy Spirit to help me. What he 875 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:08,839 S7: brings to mind is a scripture that I have read, 876 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,319 S7: or that I have heard, or something like that, and 877 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,120 S7: that helps me as well, because then I know it's 878 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,200 S7: from him because it's verified through scripture. So, yeah, uh, 879 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:22,080 S7: prayer and reading God's Word, those are essential. Um, but 880 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,040 S7: the start, it starts with just trying not to do 881 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,440 S7: the Holy Spirit's job for him. You let him do 882 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,239 S7: the work and you follow him, uh, and you'll see 883 00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:30,960 S7: what happens. 884 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,720 S1: And then once you begin to understand what he does 885 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:35,920 S1: in with and through you, trust me, you're going to 886 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,000 S1: want to take your hands off the steering wheel. Mike. 887 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,080 S1: It's a wonderful book. I'm going to repeat myself. I 888 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,319 S1: feel like I just skated over the top. There's so 889 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,320 S1: much in here. Do this as a personal study this year. 890 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,879 S1: This is an important part of the triune nature of 891 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,680 S1: our precious God. So find out who the person of 892 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,880 S1: the Holy Spirit is and discover, perhaps for the first time, 893 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:59,120 S1: or discover again what he does in, through and with you. 894 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,040 S1: It's a wonderful book, Mike. Thank you for writing it. 895 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:02,640 S1: Thank you friends. We'll see you next time on In 896 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:04,120 S1: the Market with Janet Parshall.