1 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,879 S1: Sports betting is exploding across the country, and with online platforms, 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,720 S1: it's more accessible than ever. Hi, I'm Rob West. What 3 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,280 S1: many see as harmless fun can quickly become a trap 4 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,520 S1: that distorts our view of money, stewardship, and even our neighbors. Today, 5 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,880 S1: we're talking with pastor and author Kyle Worley about the 6 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,080 S1: real spiritual stakes behind this growing trend and how believers 7 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,559 S1: can navigate it with wisdom and conviction. And then it's 8 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,840 S1: on to your calls at 800, 500, 25, 7000. This 9 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,160 S1: is faith and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your financial journey. 10 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,040 S1: Our guest today is Kyle Worley, lead pastor of Mosaic 11 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,560 S1: Church in Richardson, Texas. He's also the co-host of the 12 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,280 S1: knowing Faith podcast and the author of home with God 13 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,279 S1: Our Union with Christ. Kyle. Great to have you in 14 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:02,040 S1: the studio today. 15 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:03,959 S2: Really glad to be here, Rob. Thanks for having me. 16 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,080 S1: Kyle. You have an insightful article in our Faithful Steward 17 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:12,600 S1: magazine on how dramatically online betting has changed things. It's 18 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:17,800 S1: everywhere broadcasts, ads, social media, and easier than ever to access. 19 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,480 S1: I want to start with why you think online sports 20 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:27,120 S1: gambling raises the stakes so significantly for Christians today, especially 21 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,080 S1: when so many people view it as harmless entertainment. 22 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,800 S2: Well, that's a great question. I mean, I think that 23 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:38,080 S2: sports betting is uniquely deceptive in that it plays on 24 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,800 S2: the impulses of freedom that come with play. You know, 25 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,119 S2: for a lot of folks, sports either participating in sports 26 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,480 S2: or watching sports is, um, is a communal thing. Uh, 27 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,480 S2: it connects with childhood memories. There's a real deep sense 28 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,800 S2: of play that is involved in sport. And so unlike 29 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,560 S2: other forms of gambling that don't have the kind of 30 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:03,320 S2: nostalgia factor. Sports betting kind of slides in and connects 31 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,560 S2: with things that, for many people, are deeply rooted in 32 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,400 S2: their first opportunities to be with other people and play environments. 33 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:14,000 S2: And it really counts on that nostalgia factor for a 34 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,680 S2: huge reason why it's able to draw people so effectively. 35 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,079 S1: Oh, I think that is very well said. And, uh, 36 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,600 S1: really a key reason why we were so excited about 37 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,880 S1: getting this article into the magazine. Now, you point out 38 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,760 S1: that Scripture doesn't explicitly condemn gambling the way it does 39 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,400 S1: other sins, which leaves many Christians asking, so is it 40 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,440 S1: really wrong? How do you help believers think biblically about 41 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,880 S1: this in a way that feels clear and grounded, rather 42 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:41,920 S1: than abstract? 43 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,520 S2: It's a really fair question. And as a pastor, to 44 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,160 S2: people that are kind of dealing with these real life, 45 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,840 S2: ordinary things, I think it's always important to come back to, well, 46 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,080 S2: what does God's Word say about this? And when you 47 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:56,410 S2: look at God's Word, there is clear warnings, clear exhortations 48 00:02:56,450 --> 00:03:00,250 S2: against the pursuit of wealth gained in a hasty manner. 49 00:03:00,490 --> 00:03:04,690 S2: And so, if Scripture is not precisely clear about the 50 00:03:04,730 --> 00:03:09,810 S2: binary right or wrong of gambling, it is strongly recommending 51 00:03:09,850 --> 00:03:13,170 S2: against any approach to trying to gain wealth or pursuing 52 00:03:13,169 --> 00:03:16,890 S2: wealth in a very hasty manner. And certainly gambling is 53 00:03:17,130 --> 00:03:20,650 S2: an endeavor to try to pursue wealth gain hastily. Now, 54 00:03:20,850 --> 00:03:24,530 S2: I do think that first Timothy comes closest to a 55 00:03:24,530 --> 00:03:27,609 S2: command in first Timothy six nine through ten. It warns 56 00:03:27,610 --> 00:03:30,090 S2: that those who want to get rich fall into temptation 57 00:03:30,090 --> 00:03:33,330 S2: and a trap, and into many foolish and harmful desires 58 00:03:33,330 --> 00:03:37,450 S2: that plunge people into ruin and destruction. This idea of 59 00:03:37,730 --> 00:03:42,050 S2: the hasty accumulation of wealth being something that tempts people 60 00:03:42,050 --> 00:03:45,570 S2: into traps and leads them into foolish practices. I think 61 00:03:45,610 --> 00:03:48,690 S2: First Timothy is getting the closest to something called gambling 62 00:03:49,210 --> 00:03:52,610 S2: or something like gambling. This kind of very foolish endeavor 63 00:03:52,610 --> 00:03:56,210 S2: to try to gain wealth in a fast way. But 64 00:03:56,210 --> 00:03:57,970 S2: it is. We want to be honest with what the 65 00:03:57,970 --> 00:03:59,970 S2: Bible says. You're not going to be able to find 66 00:03:59,970 --> 00:04:03,330 S2: a single verse that says, you can't bet $15 on 67 00:04:03,330 --> 00:04:07,570 S2: a hand of Texas Hold'em. Although I would really question, uh, 68 00:04:07,570 --> 00:04:11,050 S2: the wisdom of betting $15 on a hand of poker. 69 00:04:11,290 --> 00:04:14,090 S1: Yeah, well, I couldn't agree more. And I think you're 70 00:04:14,090 --> 00:04:17,210 S1: right to point out the nuances here. But quickly going 71 00:04:17,210 --> 00:04:20,650 S1: back to Scripture to help us understand that this is 72 00:04:20,650 --> 00:04:24,930 S1: potentially a pathway to destruction. And there's another side of this, 73 00:04:24,930 --> 00:04:27,930 S1: because it's not only what is it doing to us, 74 00:04:28,170 --> 00:04:31,730 S1: but it's what is it doing to our neighbors. And 75 00:04:31,770 --> 00:04:34,050 S1: when we come back from this break, I want to 76 00:04:34,089 --> 00:04:38,690 S1: unpack that important consideration as we think about where these 77 00:04:38,690 --> 00:04:44,810 S1: profits are coming from. Are they particularly coming from the vulnerable, 78 00:04:45,050 --> 00:04:47,570 S1: and how do we love our neighbor in the midst 79 00:04:47,570 --> 00:04:50,970 S1: of gambling? And is that even possible? We'll unpack all 80 00:04:50,970 --> 00:04:54,090 S1: of that, just around the corner. We're talking with Kyle 81 00:04:54,089 --> 00:04:58,450 S1: Worley today. He's lead pastor of Mosaic Church in Richardson, Texas. 82 00:04:58,450 --> 00:05:00,969 S1: He's written an article for us in the latest edition 83 00:05:00,970 --> 00:05:05,970 S1: of the Faithful Steward Magazine, specifically on the dramatic rise 84 00:05:06,089 --> 00:05:10,530 S1: of sports betting and gambling. You're seeing it everywhere, and 85 00:05:10,529 --> 00:05:12,690 S1: that's why we want to talk about it today. We'll 86 00:05:12,690 --> 00:05:15,810 S1: unpack this much further. Just around the corner. This is 87 00:05:15,810 --> 00:05:19,170 S1: Faith and finance live. I'm Rob West. Our goal to 88 00:05:19,210 --> 00:05:21,890 S1: help you live as a wise and faithful steward. Stay 89 00:05:21,890 --> 00:05:35,929 S1: with us. The hidden costs of sports betting. We're talking 90 00:05:35,930 --> 00:05:39,450 S1: about the rise in sports betting and gambling here on 91 00:05:39,450 --> 00:05:42,690 S1: faith and finance. Today with me, Kyle Worley. He's lead 92 00:05:42,690 --> 00:05:46,410 S1: pastor of Mosaic Church in Richardson, Texas. He has an 93 00:05:46,410 --> 00:05:50,210 S1: insightful article in the latest edition of our magazine, faithful 94 00:05:50,210 --> 00:05:54,650 S1: steward on this really powerful phenomenon. And you took us 95 00:05:54,650 --> 00:05:58,690 S1: into God's word, Kyle, and talked about the potential pathway 96 00:05:58,690 --> 00:06:01,690 S1: to destruction that we see in First Timothy when we 97 00:06:01,690 --> 00:06:06,330 S1: try to get rich quick and we're hasty about seeking profit. 98 00:06:06,610 --> 00:06:10,850 S1: But let's talk about the implications for others, because, you know, 99 00:06:10,890 --> 00:06:14,969 S1: gambling systems are built to profit from the vulnerable. And 100 00:06:15,010 --> 00:06:18,050 S1: why is that such an important consideration for Christians who 101 00:06:18,050 --> 00:06:19,210 S1: are thinking about this? 102 00:06:19,610 --> 00:06:21,690 S2: Well, that's a great question. You know, Bruce Waltke, the 103 00:06:21,690 --> 00:06:25,529 S2: Old Testament scholar, he says, commenting on Old Testament law, 104 00:06:25,529 --> 00:06:28,930 S2: that the righteous man disadvantages himself for the sake of 105 00:06:28,930 --> 00:06:32,890 S2: the community. The unrighteous man advantages himself at the sake 106 00:06:32,890 --> 00:06:35,130 S2: of the community. And I think that actually is a 107 00:06:35,130 --> 00:06:38,050 S2: really good commentary, not just on the Old Testament law 108 00:06:38,050 --> 00:06:40,450 S2: and how it functioned in Israel's life, but on the 109 00:06:40,450 --> 00:06:43,290 S2: ethics of gambling. Let's say there is a Christian person 110 00:06:43,290 --> 00:06:46,130 S2: who says, listen, it's really of no consequence to me. 111 00:06:46,130 --> 00:06:49,450 S2: On whether or not I lose, you know, $100 on 112 00:06:49,450 --> 00:06:51,450 S2: a sports bet that it's just for fun. It's just 113 00:06:51,450 --> 00:06:55,210 S2: for play. Well, this $100 that somebody is willing to 114 00:06:55,250 --> 00:06:58,489 S2: wager on a given football game or basketball game or something. 115 00:06:58,529 --> 00:07:00,810 S2: It may be inconsequential to them, but it may not 116 00:07:00,810 --> 00:07:04,570 S2: be inconsequential to their neighbor and the very same portals 117 00:07:04,570 --> 00:07:08,409 S2: by which they can wager a insignificant bet of $100 118 00:07:08,450 --> 00:07:10,970 S2: are the very same portals that will take advantage of 119 00:07:11,010 --> 00:07:15,809 S2: their neighbor's very significant $100. And we already know that 120 00:07:15,810 --> 00:07:19,929 S2: the bulk of these sports gambling portals, websites, apps, uh, 121 00:07:19,930 --> 00:07:23,290 S2: controllers are absolutely willing to prey on the vulnerable if 122 00:07:23,290 --> 00:07:25,890 S2: you begin to win through any of these channels on 123 00:07:25,890 --> 00:07:29,570 S2: sports gambling, they will give you worse and worse yield 124 00:07:29,570 --> 00:07:32,690 S2: on worse and worse odds, meaning they're going to make 125 00:07:32,690 --> 00:07:35,530 S2: it incredibly difficult. And if you keep winning, they're going 126 00:07:35,530 --> 00:07:38,490 S2: to shutter your account. Now, if you're losing and you 127 00:07:38,530 --> 00:07:40,450 S2: continue to have a pattern of losing, they'll give you 128 00:07:40,450 --> 00:07:43,210 S2: better and better odds. But they will also be willing 129 00:07:43,250 --> 00:07:45,530 S2: to take more and more of your money. Yes, you 130 00:07:45,530 --> 00:07:48,380 S2: are losing. And so I think it's important to see that, 131 00:07:48,420 --> 00:07:51,100 S2: you know, a chainsaw is appropriate for me as a 132 00:07:51,100 --> 00:07:54,020 S2: 35 year old man to go out into my backyard with. 133 00:07:54,100 --> 00:07:56,300 S2: It's not appropriate to give to my seven year old 134 00:07:56,300 --> 00:07:59,180 S2: daughter and some of these things that we feel like, well, 135 00:07:59,180 --> 00:08:01,500 S2: they're really not that harmful for someone who knows how 136 00:08:01,500 --> 00:08:05,900 S2: to control them. Well, those very same avenues are being 137 00:08:05,900 --> 00:08:08,340 S2: used to exploit those who do not know how to 138 00:08:08,380 --> 00:08:11,500 S2: use them effectively. If an effective use is even possible 139 00:08:11,500 --> 00:08:13,060 S2: with these tools and portals. 140 00:08:13,340 --> 00:08:15,700 S1: Yeah. And at the core of this is both an 141 00:08:15,700 --> 00:08:19,260 S1: addictive model as well as a predatory model. Is that right? 142 00:08:19,500 --> 00:08:23,460 S2: Absolutely. And and any time you'll find the vice of gambling, 143 00:08:23,620 --> 00:08:26,780 S2: you will find wherever that sets into a society or culture, 144 00:08:26,820 --> 00:08:30,860 S2: the vices of other forms of human exploitation are trafficked. 145 00:08:30,900 --> 00:08:34,500 S2: There is absolutely no doubt at all that as we 146 00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:37,220 S2: see the rise of sports gambling in the global West, 147 00:08:37,220 --> 00:08:40,140 S2: we will continue to see other forms of human exploitation, 148 00:08:40,179 --> 00:08:43,340 S2: most notably human trafficking. When you talk to civil law 149 00:08:43,500 --> 00:08:47,420 S2: enforcement in areas and cities that host the Super Bowl. 150 00:08:47,460 --> 00:08:49,780 S2: Any major sporting event, they will tell you that the 151 00:08:49,780 --> 00:08:53,620 S2: rise in human trafficking and human prostitution goes up disproportionately 152 00:08:53,620 --> 00:08:55,780 S2: over the course of that time. I think that we 153 00:08:55,780 --> 00:08:58,620 S2: should be careful to realize that while the Bible may 154 00:08:58,620 --> 00:09:02,980 S2: not draw firm, stark lines on the right or wrong 155 00:09:02,980 --> 00:09:06,220 S2: nature of gambling, it does draw those lines on other 156 00:09:06,220 --> 00:09:10,099 S2: forms of human exploitation and where you find the growth 157 00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:13,500 S2: of gambling and the growth of this wagering, you will 158 00:09:13,500 --> 00:09:16,380 S2: find other forms of human exploitation that the Bible does 159 00:09:16,380 --> 00:09:19,060 S2: address explicitly. We should be mindful about that as Christians. 160 00:09:19,179 --> 00:09:22,820 S1: There's no question about it. And it's becoming normalized for 161 00:09:22,820 --> 00:09:26,220 S1: even the youngest of kids, because, you know, the sports 162 00:09:26,260 --> 00:09:30,780 S1: betting is is slapped on to NBA tournaments. And it's 163 00:09:30,780 --> 00:09:34,580 S1: all throughout, you know, the ESPN ads. And so we're 164 00:09:34,580 --> 00:09:38,220 S1: preconditioning our kids that this is just normal behavior, when 165 00:09:38,260 --> 00:09:41,420 S1: in fact it's anything but that. Now, you mentioned, of 166 00:09:41,460 --> 00:09:44,060 S1: course we want to go to Scripture. Some believers, Kyle, 167 00:09:44,100 --> 00:09:47,420 S1: point out the use of casting lots in Scripture as 168 00:09:47,420 --> 00:09:52,020 S1: evidence that gambling is neutral, maybe even permissible. Draw the 169 00:09:52,020 --> 00:09:53,020 S1: distinction there. 170 00:09:53,540 --> 00:09:56,180 S2: Yeah, well, when they're casting lots in the Bible, and 171 00:09:56,179 --> 00:09:58,900 S2: certainly it's an ancient practice that that raises a lot 172 00:09:58,900 --> 00:10:02,059 S2: of questions. But the casting of lots in ancient Israel 173 00:10:02,059 --> 00:10:05,780 S2: can sometimes be used as Christians as a kind of like, hey, look, 174 00:10:05,820 --> 00:10:08,420 S2: you know, they were willing to, you know, leave things 175 00:10:08,420 --> 00:10:11,900 S2: up to randomness and chance. And there are mysteries that 176 00:10:11,900 --> 00:10:15,420 S2: surround the practice. You know, some suggest that the Urim 177 00:10:15,420 --> 00:10:17,420 S2: and Thummim that the high priest carried were used for 178 00:10:17,420 --> 00:10:19,660 S2: the casting of lots. But we should realize that the 179 00:10:19,660 --> 00:10:22,620 S2: casting of lots in the Bible were there as a 180 00:10:22,620 --> 00:10:26,300 S2: way of placing trust in God through a religious enactment. 181 00:10:26,300 --> 00:10:29,500 S2: They were not there, or accompanied by a wager or 182 00:10:29,500 --> 00:10:32,420 S2: any sort of profiteering bet of any kind. So the 183 00:10:32,420 --> 00:10:35,660 S2: idea that casting lots might be a little bit confusing 184 00:10:35,700 --> 00:10:37,780 S2: to us is not surprising. It is a little bit 185 00:10:37,780 --> 00:10:40,620 S2: confusing to modern sensibilities, and it's good for us to 186 00:10:40,660 --> 00:10:43,460 S2: continue to study what it was. But what it absolutely 187 00:10:43,460 --> 00:10:48,740 S2: wasn't was any sort of wage making bet or any 188 00:10:48,740 --> 00:10:52,140 S2: sort of action for profiteering. It was there as a 189 00:10:52,140 --> 00:10:55,300 S2: very practical way for Israel and for God's people to 190 00:10:55,340 --> 00:10:58,620 S2: place their trust in God through a religious ceremony or ritual. 191 00:10:58,620 --> 00:11:02,060 S2: It wasn't there in order to garner or to gain 192 00:11:02,059 --> 00:11:05,099 S2: a wage of any kind. So it can be confusing, 193 00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:08,540 S2: but what it absolutely isn't is support for modern gambling 194 00:11:08,660 --> 00:11:09,900 S2: in any sense of the term. 195 00:11:10,220 --> 00:11:13,140 S1: That's helpful. Now, as a pastor, Kyle, I'd love for 196 00:11:13,140 --> 00:11:17,140 S1: you to speak to how Christian leaders can navigate this wisely. 197 00:11:17,140 --> 00:11:21,059 S1: You've said that churches need to speak more clearly and consistently, 198 00:11:21,059 --> 00:11:24,860 S1: not only about money in general, but this issue as well. 199 00:11:24,860 --> 00:11:26,380 S1: So what's your counsel there? 200 00:11:26,620 --> 00:11:28,020 S2: Well, I mean, I think yeah, the big part of 201 00:11:28,020 --> 00:11:30,460 S2: it is talk about money. I mean, truthfully, one of 202 00:11:30,460 --> 00:11:32,900 S2: the ways that churches fail in their discipleship strategy is 203 00:11:32,900 --> 00:11:36,020 S2: that Christians have no positive conception of wealth. So if 204 00:11:36,020 --> 00:11:39,300 S2: they have excess money, they just don't have any positive vision. 205 00:11:39,540 --> 00:11:42,100 S2: Most Christians are told two things about wealth it's bad 206 00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:44,420 S2: to have and make sure you use it. Well, that's 207 00:11:44,420 --> 00:11:47,700 S2: not a very robust understanding of wealth management, and the 208 00:11:47,700 --> 00:11:49,819 S2: Bible has so much more to say. So talk more 209 00:11:49,820 --> 00:11:53,660 S2: about money. Your people are looking for counsel on money 210 00:11:53,660 --> 00:11:56,860 S2: and and they they need godly counsel on it. The 211 00:11:56,860 --> 00:12:01,140 S2: second thing is to speak to respectable and fun vices. 212 00:12:01,580 --> 00:12:03,580 S2: This is something the church has to be willing to do. 213 00:12:03,620 --> 00:12:07,100 S2: It's not just address things that are easy to address 214 00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:10,059 S2: or that are commonplace like lust, but to address things 215 00:12:10,059 --> 00:12:14,860 S2: like the improper stewardship of wealth and of resources. You know, 216 00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:17,060 S2: the Book of Common Prayer talks about we want to 217 00:12:17,059 --> 00:12:19,339 S2: confess to God what we have sinned against him in thought, 218 00:12:19,380 --> 00:12:21,700 S2: word and deed by what we have done and by 219 00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:24,900 S2: what we have left undone. We need to address vices 220 00:12:24,900 --> 00:12:28,180 S2: that are the undoing of good things, and gambling is 221 00:12:28,179 --> 00:12:31,380 S2: certainly the undoing of wise stewardship. The third thing, and 222 00:12:31,380 --> 00:12:33,940 S2: the last thing, Rob, is I think that one of 223 00:12:33,940 --> 00:12:37,670 S2: the reasons sports gambling is so appealing is that men 224 00:12:37,710 --> 00:12:41,030 S2: in our congregation specifically, are looking for opportunities to connect 225 00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:45,670 S2: with other men through proper and healthy play. Recreational play. 226 00:12:45,670 --> 00:12:47,709 S2: And I think churches need to begin to think through 227 00:12:47,710 --> 00:12:50,910 S2: their discipleship strategy. And how do they create places for 228 00:12:50,910 --> 00:12:54,670 S2: fraternal fellowship among men? Because one of the main draws 229 00:12:54,670 --> 00:12:56,430 S2: of sports gambling is, I want to be able to 230 00:12:56,429 --> 00:13:00,150 S2: do something with other men that's fun, that's engaging, and 231 00:13:00,150 --> 00:13:02,950 S2: that allows us to talk to one another socially. And 232 00:13:02,950 --> 00:13:05,230 S2: churches can be a conduit of that. That's better than 233 00:13:05,230 --> 00:13:06,470 S2: what the world has to offer. 234 00:13:06,870 --> 00:13:08,590 S1: Oh, this is so good, Kyle. We're going to have 235 00:13:08,590 --> 00:13:10,270 S1: to have you back real soon. We've only got about 236 00:13:10,270 --> 00:13:15,350 S1: 40s left. How does someone, given the dramatic rise in 237 00:13:15,350 --> 00:13:19,630 S1: this space, navigate the tension between this cultural moment and 238 00:13:19,630 --> 00:13:20,950 S1: biblical conviction? 239 00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:25,310 S2: It requires wisdom. It requires wisdom. And wisdom is best 240 00:13:25,309 --> 00:13:28,550 S2: exercised in community with other believers. Be a part of 241 00:13:28,550 --> 00:13:31,310 S2: meaningful community with other brothers and sisters in Christ, and 242 00:13:31,309 --> 00:13:34,310 S2: bring these questions of is it right? Is it wrong? 243 00:13:34,429 --> 00:13:37,350 S2: Into the light of fellowship with other believers under the 244 00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:38,470 S2: authority of God's Word. 245 00:13:38,870 --> 00:13:41,750 S1: Uh. Well said. Well, folks, at the end of the day, 246 00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:45,710 S1: the question isn't simply is gambling allowed? But does this 247 00:13:45,710 --> 00:13:49,550 S1: help me love God and my neighbor? Well? Our financial 248 00:13:49,550 --> 00:13:53,030 S1: choices need to reflect God's character, our love for others 249 00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:56,670 S1: in a heart anchored in contentment rather than quick gain. Kyle, 250 00:13:56,670 --> 00:13:58,189 S1: thanks so much for being with us today. 251 00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:59,270 S2: Glad to be here. 252 00:13:59,550 --> 00:14:02,830 S1: That's Kyle Worley, author of The Real Stakes of Sports Betting, 253 00:14:02,830 --> 00:14:05,990 S1: featured in our latest issue of Faithful Steward Magazine. If 254 00:14:05,990 --> 00:14:07,510 S1: you want to know how you can get a copy 255 00:14:07,550 --> 00:14:12,750 S1: each quarter, head to Faith. Your calls are next. 800 256 00:14:12,750 --> 00:14:17,070 S1: 525 7000. I'm Rob Weston. You're listening to Faith and 257 00:14:17,070 --> 00:14:21,510 S1: finance live. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. We'll be 258 00:14:21,510 --> 00:14:22,910 S1: right back after this break. 259 00:14:31,950 --> 00:14:34,870 S3: The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or 260 00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:38,910 S3: professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only. 261 00:14:39,070 --> 00:14:42,350 S3: Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from 262 00:14:42,350 --> 00:14:46,110 S3: a financial, medical, legal, or other professional who understands your 263 00:14:46,110 --> 00:14:47,590 S3: specific situation. 264 00:14:55,670 --> 00:14:58,270 S1: Great to have you with us today. Well, from sports betting, 265 00:14:58,270 --> 00:15:00,990 S1: we open the conversation up to whatever is on your 266 00:15:00,990 --> 00:15:03,310 S1: mind today. We'd love to help you live as a 267 00:15:03,310 --> 00:15:05,750 S1: wise and faithful steward. We do that when you call 268 00:15:05,790 --> 00:15:12,590 S1: 800 525 7000 again, that's 800 525 7000. We'll dive 269 00:15:12,590 --> 00:15:15,310 S1: into those questions here in just a moment. But at 270 00:15:15,310 --> 00:15:18,070 S1: the moment at least, we do have some lines open. 271 00:15:18,070 --> 00:15:21,550 S1: So you can call right now in the news. Housing 272 00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:26,510 S1: affordability strains are increasingly affecting not just prospective buyers but 273 00:15:26,510 --> 00:15:30,230 S1: current homeowners as well. New data is telling us late 274 00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:34,350 S1: stage mortgage delinquencies, that is, payments at least 90 days 275 00:15:34,350 --> 00:15:38,750 S1: past due rose 18.6% in December from a year earlier. 276 00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:43,590 S1: That was according to Vantagescore, while the overall share remains small, 277 00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:48,830 S1: at about 0.2%. The increase is outpacing growth in delinquencies 278 00:15:48,830 --> 00:15:54,150 S1: across all other debt types. Home values have eased slightly, 279 00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:58,590 S1: although they remain elevated, with prices up more than 50% 280 00:15:58,590 --> 00:16:03,790 S1: since early 2020 and mortgage rates are still above 6%. 281 00:16:03,830 --> 00:16:09,230 S1: That's a challenging combination. Rising insurance, property taxes and maintenance 282 00:16:09,230 --> 00:16:12,390 S1: costs are adding pressure. Although I will say I just 283 00:16:12,390 --> 00:16:14,870 S1: got my tax bill. It is finally, for the first 284 00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:18,070 S1: year in several years, lower than it was the prior year. 285 00:16:18,070 --> 00:16:21,950 S1: I think that's showing housing prices have stabilized in some cases. 286 00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:24,710 S1: You know, they've even taken a slight dip easing off 287 00:16:24,710 --> 00:16:29,590 S1: this dramatic rise that's helping to bring some property taxes 288 00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:32,950 S1: down at the very least, just not continuing to rise. Now, 289 00:16:32,950 --> 00:16:38,910 S1: financial planners caution buyers to stay well below lender approved limits. Remember, 290 00:16:38,910 --> 00:16:40,910 S1: just because they say you can borrow it doesn't mean 291 00:16:40,910 --> 00:16:43,630 S1: it's a good idea for you. Make sure you budget 292 00:16:43,630 --> 00:16:49,190 S1: for upkeep and maintain emergency savings to handle unexpected expenses. 293 00:16:49,390 --> 00:16:53,030 S1: You know, rising housing costs and headlines about delinquencies can 294 00:16:53,030 --> 00:16:57,830 S1: often stir some anxiety, especially for families longing for stability 295 00:16:57,830 --> 00:17:01,030 S1: or feeling worn down by renting. But as believers, let 296 00:17:01,030 --> 00:17:03,630 S1: me encourage you or reminded that fear is never meant 297 00:17:03,630 --> 00:17:06,510 S1: to be our guide. Scripture tells us that God has 298 00:17:06,510 --> 00:17:09,230 S1: given us not a spirit of fear, but of power, love, 299 00:17:09,470 --> 00:17:12,510 S1: and sound judgment. We see that in in Second Timothy. 300 00:17:12,910 --> 00:17:18,070 S1: Sound judgment means making wise, well-informed decisions, not rushed ones 301 00:17:18,070 --> 00:17:21,590 S1: by pressure or comparison. Remember that rule of thumb this 302 00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:23,830 S1: is not an end all, be all, but it's a 303 00:17:23,830 --> 00:17:27,600 S1: helpful guideline. Make sure that mortgage payment, including taxes and 304 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:32,600 S1: insurance is below 30%. Better yet, 25% to make sure 305 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,560 S1: that you've got enough left for everything else. All right, 306 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,640 S1: let's head to the phones. The lines are filling up. 307 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,640 S1: Still a few open at the moment. 800 525 7000. 308 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,360 S1: Mike is driving through Oklahoma. Mike. Go ahead. 309 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,320 S4: Hey, thank you for taking my call. First of all. 310 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:47,760 S3: Of. 311 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,520 S4: Course, and I am. I'm on my way to Wisconsin. 312 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:53,720 S1: Oh, wow. Okay. Very cool. 313 00:17:54,800 --> 00:18:00,040 S4: Yeah. And, um, anyway, my question is, I am 55 314 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:04,720 S4: years old. Um, my lord and savior, uh, saved me 315 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,919 S4: at a very late age. Praise the Lord. And, uh, 316 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:14,159 S4: he's a man, brother. He's blessed me immensely since then. Um, 317 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,040 S4: between my wife and I, we make about, uh, about 318 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:22,200 S4: 120,000 a year. We have a car note, a mortgage. 319 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,160 S4: Other than that, we're debt free. And we have been 320 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:32,600 S4: preparing for retirement, and we're working on getting like a three, 321 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:38,240 S4: three month emergency fund. And my question is, what else 322 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:43,200 S4: can I do at this age? Um, with, with, uh, 323 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,440 S4: with that kind of money at about, uh, I would 324 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,000 S4: say about $500 is what we have left over each 325 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,200 S4: month after everything is paid utilities, car note, house note 326 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,720 S4: and everything. Okay. I want to know what to do 327 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,480 S4: with that. What can I do with that? 328 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,680 S1: Yeah. With that extra $500 a month. 329 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:03,040 S4: Yeah. 330 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,080 S1: Yeah. Um, how are you doing in terms of. I 331 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,440 S1: love the fact that you're on track to be completely 332 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,280 S1: debt free, just the house and the car right now. Uh, 333 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,040 S1: you're working on that emergency fund? I'd stay laser focused 334 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:15,920 S1: on that. I'd probably get that up to a full 335 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,000 S1: six months worth of expenses. So at 500 a month, 336 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,159 S1: that's going to take you, you know, maybe the balance 337 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,120 S1: of the year to get there, maybe a little less 338 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,720 S1: than that. But apart from that, I would say, you know, 339 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,240 S1: let's continue to put money away because, you know, you've 340 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,399 S1: still got some time on your side. God's blessed you 341 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,199 S1: all with a good income. You've got some surplus. So 342 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,840 S1: I think your ability to first of all, let's prioritize 343 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,000 S1: giving and make sure you're listening to the Lord as 344 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,680 S1: to how he would lead you in your your giving. 345 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,280 S1: But beyond that, I'd love for you to, you know, 346 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,800 S1: be setting something aside for the future so that when 347 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,640 S1: you get to that time where God redirects you away 348 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,040 S1: from paid work, either because he's got something else for you, 349 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,840 S1: a new assignment, or you're just unable to continue to 350 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:03,560 S1: work physically in the same capacity you are. Now that 351 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,520 S1: alongside Social Security, you'd have, uh, you know, some other 352 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,280 S1: assets that you could convert into an income stream. Um, 353 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,520 S1: do you have any, uh, retirement accounts right now? 354 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,560 S4: I do, I have, uh, I have A41K with my job. Uh, 355 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,359 S4: there's about $20,000 in that. 356 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,719 S1: All right. And anything. 357 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,840 S4: Else? Um. Nope. That's it. Okay. The only thing. 358 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,040 S1: Yeah. So I think there's an opportunity there. The good 359 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,680 S1: news is, sounds like you're healthy. And, uh, you know, 360 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,600 S1: you can continue to work. So what you might want 361 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,320 S1: to do is look at, you know, getting that emergency 362 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,359 S1: fund up to, let's say, that full three months expenses 363 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,960 S1: and then maybe a split that surplus, 250 to continue 364 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:50,040 S1: to build it up, and maybe 250 by increasing your 365 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,400 S1: salary deferral into that 401 K, so that you've got 366 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,120 S1: more money going in every month, that's going to kind 367 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,720 S1: of wind down that surplus. But that's okay. We're putting 368 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,919 S1: that toward productive uses of, you know, fully funding the 369 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,840 S1: emergency fund, while at the same time, you know, adding 370 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,359 S1: more to the 401 K so that you can build 371 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,600 S1: some additional assets that you could tap into down the road. 372 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:12,560 S1: Does that make sense? 373 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:18,119 S4: That does. So basically hit that 401 K as hard 374 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,040 S4: as I possibly can. Um. 375 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:21,800 S1: I think so. 376 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,600 S4: Yeah. After the, uh, emergency fund. 377 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,040 S1: That's exactly right. Yeah, that's the place to be. It's 378 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,280 S1: going to give you tax deferral, and it's going to 379 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,520 S1: give you something growing for the future, which is is 380 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,000 S1: always a good thing. So Mike, sounds like you're doing 381 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,000 S1: a great job. Keep it up. And, uh, thanks for 382 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,600 S1: being on the program today. Call anytime. Well, we're going 383 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,160 S1: to take a quick break. We come back, we'll talk 384 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,720 S1: to Jake in Indiana. We'll talk to, uh, Sharon in 385 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:49,639 S1: Ohio about giving a tithe through appreciated stock. And then, uh, 386 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,480 S1: on to Indianapolis and Kendra, we'll be right back on 387 00:21:52,480 --> 00:22:01,400 S1: Faith and Finance Live. Thanks for joining us today on 388 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,920 S1: Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. We're taking your 389 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,639 S1: calls and questions today. We've got a few lines open 390 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:11,719 S1: at 800 525 7000. Uh call right now. Uh, let's see. 391 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,080 S1: Let's head out to Indiana. Jake, thanks for your patience. 392 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:14,680 S1: Go ahead. 393 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,330 S5: Hi, Rob. Um, I have I'm a loyal listener to you, 394 00:22:21,330 --> 00:22:24,290 S5: and I'm just so thankful for your ministry and everything 395 00:22:24,290 --> 00:22:28,889 S5: that you're doing. Um, I wanted to talk to you 396 00:22:28,890 --> 00:22:33,970 S5: about a potential opportunity that I was presented with. Um, 397 00:22:34,010 --> 00:22:39,050 S5: it's working for the federal government. Um, obviously having the 398 00:22:39,130 --> 00:22:42,330 S5: the federal pension, all of the benefits that go along 399 00:22:42,330 --> 00:22:47,090 S5: with becoming a federal employee. However, I am torn because 400 00:22:47,090 --> 00:22:50,370 S5: it is about a $35,000 pay cut from what I'm 401 00:22:50,369 --> 00:22:53,690 S5: currently making. And I, my wife and I ran all 402 00:22:53,690 --> 00:22:57,410 S5: the numbers. We we did, um, all of the allocations 403 00:22:57,410 --> 00:22:59,850 S5: and all of that, and we feel that we could 404 00:22:59,890 --> 00:23:02,410 S5: still afford it. But I'm still I still have that 405 00:23:02,410 --> 00:23:06,970 S5: apprehension within me that it's such a large pay cut 406 00:23:07,290 --> 00:23:09,930 S5: and I just don't know what the right decision is. 407 00:23:10,530 --> 00:23:12,889 S1: Yeah, well, I can appreciate that. I mean, it's a 408 00:23:12,890 --> 00:23:15,330 S1: it's a big decision, I think the starting point. And 409 00:23:15,330 --> 00:23:17,210 S1: I'm glad you and your wife are thinking about it. 410 00:23:17,250 --> 00:23:18,850 S1: Make it a matter of prayer. Ask the Lord to 411 00:23:18,850 --> 00:23:22,050 S1: give you wisdom on this decision. I think one of 412 00:23:22,050 --> 00:23:24,930 S1: the first questions to ask is if the pay were 413 00:23:24,930 --> 00:23:28,609 S1: the same, would I choose the federal job? You know, 414 00:23:28,650 --> 00:23:33,210 S1: just in terms of, you know, the the non-financial soft issues, 415 00:23:33,210 --> 00:23:36,410 S1: maybe it's fewer hours or the commute's better lower stress, 416 00:23:36,410 --> 00:23:40,090 S1: more flexibility, you know, just everything, quality of life that 417 00:23:40,090 --> 00:23:44,210 S1: goes into that. And if the answer is yes, you would, 418 00:23:44,650 --> 00:23:49,490 S1: then the question becomes is the 35,000 you know, worth 419 00:23:49,530 --> 00:23:54,889 S1: the additional benefits? And, you know, security and potentially peace 420 00:23:54,890 --> 00:23:58,690 S1: that comes along with that because there is real value there. 421 00:23:58,730 --> 00:24:03,010 S1: I mean, when we put a dollar value on every benefit, uh, 422 00:24:03,010 --> 00:24:06,609 S1: you know, that's significant. Often when you look at what's 423 00:24:06,609 --> 00:24:10,450 S1: called the invisible paycheck of federal service, because it may 424 00:24:10,490 --> 00:24:13,090 S1: be mathematically worth it in the long run. I mean, 425 00:24:13,130 --> 00:24:18,290 S1: the primary equaliser is the Fers pension. The federal retirement system, 426 00:24:18,490 --> 00:24:23,490 S1: that's a guaranteed lifetime. Lifetime income stream that's virtually extinct 427 00:24:23,490 --> 00:24:28,050 S1: in the private sector. So, you know, depending on your situation, typically, 428 00:24:28,050 --> 00:24:31,530 S1: if you retire within 20 years of service, that pension 429 00:24:31,530 --> 00:24:34,490 S1: alone can be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars over 430 00:24:34,490 --> 00:24:38,410 S1: your retirement. And then you typically would have access to the, 431 00:24:38,690 --> 00:24:41,850 S1: you know, the health insurance from the federal government, which 432 00:24:41,850 --> 00:24:45,170 S1: you basically can keep for life and that protects you 433 00:24:45,170 --> 00:24:48,850 S1: from massive medical costs in your 70s and 80s. And 434 00:24:48,850 --> 00:24:52,369 S1: then you factor in the 5% TSP match on the 435 00:24:52,369 --> 00:24:55,530 S1: Thrift Savings plan, and you know the other things you 436 00:24:55,570 --> 00:25:00,859 S1: would get. And often that total compensation might be 30 437 00:25:00,859 --> 00:25:04,890 S1: or 40% higher than the salary appears. So the key 438 00:25:04,930 --> 00:25:07,689 S1: would come down to, you know, can you afford the 439 00:25:07,690 --> 00:25:12,050 S1: monthly cash flow dip now and then plan to stay 440 00:25:12,530 --> 00:25:16,810 S1: long enough to vest wear the long term security might 441 00:25:16,850 --> 00:25:19,689 S1: actually win out. Does that make sense, though? 442 00:25:20,570 --> 00:25:23,530 S5: It does, it does. And that's and that's exactly what 443 00:25:23,810 --> 00:25:25,930 S5: I was kind of thinking as well too. And my 444 00:25:25,930 --> 00:25:27,530 S5: wife and I, we've kind of set up a very 445 00:25:27,530 --> 00:25:30,530 S5: nice nest egg. We've got a years or years worth 446 00:25:30,530 --> 00:25:34,450 S5: of savings invested for our household expenses, things of that nature. 447 00:25:34,450 --> 00:25:37,530 S5: We tried to be very proactive as far as our 448 00:25:37,530 --> 00:25:42,010 S5: saving is concerned. So to try and be prepared for 449 00:25:42,010 --> 00:25:45,689 S5: a position such as this is just it's that initial 450 00:25:45,690 --> 00:25:49,690 S5: sticker shock aspect. But there are so many different benefits 451 00:25:49,690 --> 00:25:52,610 S5: and things of that nature. And I'm just it's it's 452 00:25:52,609 --> 00:25:55,050 S5: kind of scary because, you know, you know, you I've 453 00:25:55,090 --> 00:25:57,250 S5: worked so hard to get to the position that I 454 00:25:57,250 --> 00:26:00,090 S5: am to be, but then to be presented with an 455 00:26:00,090 --> 00:26:03,130 S5: opportunity such as this, I know it's the Lord's timing 456 00:26:03,130 --> 00:26:05,729 S5: and I know it was it was his provision to 457 00:26:05,770 --> 00:26:09,649 S5: open that door. But yeah, um, that definitely answers a 458 00:26:09,690 --> 00:26:12,260 S5: lot of my questions as far as I think that 459 00:26:12,260 --> 00:26:14,940 S5: it probably would be a smart decision to go forward 460 00:26:14,940 --> 00:26:17,979 S5: with this as far as career progression and all that 461 00:26:18,020 --> 00:26:18,979 S5: is concerned. Well. 462 00:26:19,300 --> 00:26:21,540 S1: Well done on putting yourself in a position where you 463 00:26:21,540 --> 00:26:24,139 S1: and your wife can actually even consider this just because 464 00:26:24,140 --> 00:26:27,020 S1: you have the ability. You've been living modestly. You've got 465 00:26:27,020 --> 00:26:30,340 S1: a healthy emergency fund. You know, if you were in 466 00:26:30,340 --> 00:26:32,419 S1: a different spot, you may not even be able to 467 00:26:32,460 --> 00:26:36,139 S1: consider this opportunity. So I think that's great. Just let's 468 00:26:36,140 --> 00:26:39,900 S1: sit in that for a second and celebrate that. Beyond that, 469 00:26:40,140 --> 00:26:42,219 S1: let me just ask the question, you know, if you 470 00:26:42,260 --> 00:26:47,020 S1: were to, you know, set that 35,000 aside, would you 471 00:26:47,020 --> 00:26:49,700 S1: definitely take this job apart from that? 472 00:26:50,820 --> 00:26:54,220 S5: Absolutely. Um, I think without a shadow of a doubt, 473 00:26:54,460 --> 00:26:57,100 S5: my my wife and I are wanting to have a family. 474 00:26:57,140 --> 00:27:00,500 S5: And obviously when the one of the many benefits is 475 00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:03,180 S5: having that paternity leave and being able to spend time 476 00:27:03,180 --> 00:27:06,460 S5: with our newborn child in that way and, um, being 477 00:27:06,460 --> 00:27:09,580 S5: able to have all of the additional time off and 478 00:27:09,820 --> 00:27:12,179 S5: ability to be able to spend with my family in 479 00:27:12,220 --> 00:27:15,659 S5: that way would be such a blessing. So in addition 480 00:27:15,660 --> 00:27:18,980 S5: to having that, the Firs and the pension and all 481 00:27:19,020 --> 00:27:22,060 S5: the other benefits that go along with it. So yes, 482 00:27:22,060 --> 00:27:24,780 S5: to answer your question, long story short, yes I would. 483 00:27:25,180 --> 00:27:28,580 S1: And the work itself aligns with how you believe God's 484 00:27:28,580 --> 00:27:31,899 S1: uniquely gifted you. And it's a progression that allows you 485 00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:34,859 S1: to continue to advance in what you've been doing to 486 00:27:34,859 --> 00:27:35,580 S1: this point. 487 00:27:36,180 --> 00:27:40,020 S5: Yes it does. And there are, um, positions. It's more 488 00:27:40,020 --> 00:27:42,460 S5: of an entry level position that I would be entering 489 00:27:42,460 --> 00:27:46,540 S5: now just to try and enter the federal government, uh, 490 00:27:46,540 --> 00:27:50,660 S5: with the VA hospital. But, um, definitely there are opportunities 491 00:27:50,660 --> 00:27:55,660 S5: to advance, um, as, as time progresses and as I 492 00:27:55,820 --> 00:27:57,460 S5: gain more skills and talents. 493 00:27:57,820 --> 00:27:59,740 S1: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think one of the things 494 00:27:59,740 --> 00:28:03,940 S1: you can look at is, you know, understanding the basic 495 00:28:03,940 --> 00:28:08,220 S1: pension formula and convert that into a monthly income number. 496 00:28:08,460 --> 00:28:11,060 S1: You know, for the future. So, you know, the pension 497 00:28:11,060 --> 00:28:14,580 S1: formula is basically years of service times the pension factor 498 00:28:14,740 --> 00:28:20,900 S1: times your high three year, uh, your high three average salary. Um, 499 00:28:20,940 --> 00:28:24,859 S1: so you would basically say, okay, you know, most retirees, it's, 500 00:28:24,859 --> 00:28:28,260 S1: it's 1% a year. Um, you know, and so let's 501 00:28:28,260 --> 00:28:32,340 S1: say you're high, you know, three salary is 100,000 after 502 00:28:32,340 --> 00:28:34,980 S1: 20 years with a factor of one. I mean, that'd 503 00:28:35,020 --> 00:28:40,300 S1: be 20,000 a year. So that's an extra 1607, $67 504 00:28:40,300 --> 00:28:43,140 S1: a month, basically. So you can kind of work through 505 00:28:43,140 --> 00:28:45,700 S1: that formula and say, okay, based on how long I 506 00:28:45,700 --> 00:28:48,140 S1: stay and what my I think my highest three years 507 00:28:48,140 --> 00:28:51,020 S1: of earnings would be, um, you know, here's what I 508 00:28:51,020 --> 00:28:53,340 S1: would be eligible for down the road. And then you 509 00:28:53,340 --> 00:28:57,300 S1: could convert that, uh, you know, monthly pension into a 510 00:28:57,340 --> 00:29:00,980 S1: portfolio replacement. What would it take in terms of a 511 00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:05,820 S1: portfolio at, at a 4% withdrawal rate to generate that 512 00:29:05,820 --> 00:29:08,900 S1: same amount. I mean, if it's $20,000 a year, that's 513 00:29:08,940 --> 00:29:12,380 S1: a half $1 million portfolio that would support a 20 514 00:29:12,380 --> 00:29:15,940 S1: 000A year withdrawal rate. So that's pretty significant. But I 515 00:29:15,940 --> 00:29:19,220 S1: think even once you do that and begin to appreciate 516 00:29:19,260 --> 00:29:23,060 S1: the value of the benefits, then it's a function of, okay, 517 00:29:23,100 --> 00:29:25,540 S1: what does that mean for us in terms of our 518 00:29:25,540 --> 00:29:30,420 S1: lifestyle and our expenses and a growing family right now? 519 00:29:30,740 --> 00:29:34,220 S1: And what is the trajectory of that pay as you 520 00:29:34,220 --> 00:29:37,340 S1: move from an entry level position to, you know, other, 521 00:29:37,580 --> 00:29:40,180 S1: you know, move up the ladder, so to speak, what 522 00:29:40,180 --> 00:29:42,700 S1: can you expect? Maybe you need to have some conversations 523 00:29:42,700 --> 00:29:45,060 S1: around that and then just run the numbers and do 524 00:29:45,060 --> 00:29:47,180 S1: the budget. Because what you don't want to do is 525 00:29:47,420 --> 00:29:49,940 S1: get into this thinking, well, it'll get better, even though 526 00:29:49,940 --> 00:29:53,380 S1: we're stretching right now, and you run through your savings and, 527 00:29:53,420 --> 00:29:55,820 S1: you know, it wasn't realistic to think, even though those 528 00:29:55,820 --> 00:30:00,340 S1: benefits were rich, you know, the the monthly expenses, you're 529 00:30:00,340 --> 00:30:02,740 S1: struggling to live within your means. So you need to 530 00:30:02,860 --> 00:30:05,140 S1: be able to solve for it today with a real 531 00:30:05,140 --> 00:30:09,060 S1: budget that's practical. And then, you know, let's consider the 532 00:30:09,060 --> 00:30:11,219 S1: value of the long term benefits, which we know are 533 00:30:11,220 --> 00:30:14,459 S1: going to be really significant just because of the federal 534 00:30:14,460 --> 00:30:16,740 S1: government's program. Does that make sense? 535 00:30:18,220 --> 00:30:20,220 S5: It does. And I did have one other follow up 536 00:30:20,220 --> 00:30:22,260 S5: question if there is time as well. Rob. 537 00:30:22,580 --> 00:30:25,140 S1: Let's do this. We'll take that off the air, because 538 00:30:25,140 --> 00:30:26,580 S1: I've got to hit this break and I've got some 539 00:30:26,580 --> 00:30:28,900 S1: other folks holding, but I'd love to chat with you. 540 00:30:28,900 --> 00:30:32,060 S1: So hold right there, Jake. I appreciate your call. Sharon 541 00:30:32,060 --> 00:30:34,700 S1: in Ohio, thanks for your patience. Coming your way. Kendra 542 00:30:34,700 --> 00:30:37,780 S1: in Indianapolis. And then we'll head to Chattanooga and talk 543 00:30:37,780 --> 00:30:40,580 S1: to Ray. We've got room for a few more questions 544 00:30:40,580 --> 00:30:56,100 S1: as well. 800 525 7000. We'll be right back. Helping 545 00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:59,300 S1: you live as a faithful steward. This is faith and finance. Live. 546 00:30:59,340 --> 00:31:02,190 S1: Let's go right back to the phones. Ohio. Sharon. Go ahead. 547 00:31:02,390 --> 00:31:06,190 S6: Hi, Ron. Thank you for taking my call. Um, I'm 548 00:31:06,190 --> 00:31:10,230 S6: a widow, and my sweetheart passed about ten years ago. 549 00:31:10,750 --> 00:31:15,150 S6: And in that time, um, I've done well because my 550 00:31:15,150 --> 00:31:19,790 S6: husband provided well for me. And I have a brokerage account, 551 00:31:20,350 --> 00:31:23,790 S6: a 401 K and a Roth, and it's about the. 552 00:31:24,590 --> 00:31:28,190 S6: The assets I have are divided about half between each. 553 00:31:28,750 --> 00:31:32,550 S6: I've just gotten to the point where I have enough 554 00:31:32,550 --> 00:31:36,310 S6: in them that I feel, um, I could make a 555 00:31:36,310 --> 00:31:41,430 S6: big difference in my children's life at my passing. And 556 00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:44,070 S6: now I'm above what was in my mind is what 557 00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:47,430 S6: I really wanted to see them have at my passing. 558 00:31:47,790 --> 00:31:50,950 S6: So I've got enough coming, and my income is all 559 00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:54,070 S6: coming from the brokerage account from dividends. 560 00:31:54,350 --> 00:31:54,870 S1: Okay. 561 00:31:54,910 --> 00:32:03,430 S6: And this year it's it's, um. greatly improved. Um, but unfortunately, 562 00:32:03,590 --> 00:32:06,310 S6: everything you take in a brokerage account, you get to 563 00:32:06,310 --> 00:32:12,110 S6: pay taxes on. Right? And it's it's raising my income, um, 564 00:32:12,750 --> 00:32:18,150 S6: painfully so that, um, I had a financial advisor and 565 00:32:18,150 --> 00:32:20,150 S6: he was managing half of the money, and I was 566 00:32:20,150 --> 00:32:22,870 S6: managing half. I've had to take it back in my 567 00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:26,750 S6: hands because he won't pay any attention to what sales 568 00:32:26,750 --> 00:32:31,790 S6: do to to Irma levels. Oh, and this year I 569 00:32:31,830 --> 00:32:36,710 S6: am losing nearly $500 a month in income from Social 570 00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:39,510 S6: Security because he sold a stock. 571 00:32:39,870 --> 00:32:40,270 S1: Yeah. 572 00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:44,030 S6: And there was not anything to offset it. You understand? 573 00:32:44,110 --> 00:32:45,190 S1: I sure do. Yeah. 574 00:32:45,230 --> 00:32:48,390 S6: My my question is what I have in mind. This 575 00:32:48,390 --> 00:32:51,670 S6: is something that means a lot to me. Because of 576 00:32:51,670 --> 00:32:54,150 S6: the pain I see out there, I would I'd like 577 00:32:54,150 --> 00:32:57,870 S6: to start giving enough to buy every now and then 578 00:32:57,870 --> 00:33:04,430 S6: when I'm able to, to buy, um, an ultrasound machine for, um, 579 00:33:04,990 --> 00:33:08,790 S6: pregnancy centers for women. Yes. Um, I have enough set 580 00:33:08,790 --> 00:33:12,270 S6: aside to do that now, and I'm thinking it would 581 00:33:12,270 --> 00:33:16,750 S6: be better to give it in the form of stock 582 00:33:16,950 --> 00:33:21,430 S6: that has appreciated greatly, and just give the stock rather 583 00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:23,150 S6: than give the money. 584 00:33:23,550 --> 00:33:24,710 S1: Yes, yes. 585 00:33:24,750 --> 00:33:26,830 S6: And I'm wondering about can I do that with my 586 00:33:26,830 --> 00:33:30,430 S6: church too that way. Can I kind of avoid uncle, 587 00:33:30,470 --> 00:33:33,230 S6: the tax man, the tax man's beating me to death. 588 00:33:33,630 --> 00:33:37,310 S1: Yes, ma'am, I get it. Uh, yes you can. And 589 00:33:37,310 --> 00:33:40,510 S1: this is a fabulous strategy. And I'm glad you've, uh, 590 00:33:40,510 --> 00:33:43,870 S1: you've tapped into this. Now, how much of, of your 591 00:33:43,870 --> 00:33:49,790 S1: investable assets are in taxable accounts? Just straight brokerage accounts 592 00:33:49,790 --> 00:33:52,750 S1: where you're paying capital gains every time you sell something 593 00:33:52,790 --> 00:33:58,110 S1: at a at a profit versus inside tax deferred retirement accounts. 594 00:33:58,110 --> 00:34:01,150 S6: It's almost it's almost equally half and half. 595 00:34:01,390 --> 00:34:03,750 S1: Okay. Got it. And what is your age if you 596 00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:04,790 S1: don't mind me asking. 597 00:34:04,790 --> 00:34:06,750 S6: I don't mind. I'm 67. 598 00:34:06,990 --> 00:34:09,950 S1: Okay. Got it. Yeah. So what we probably want to 599 00:34:09,950 --> 00:34:14,030 S1: do is let the pre-tax money just continue to grow, 600 00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:16,350 S1: because you'll be able to get that out once you're 601 00:34:16,350 --> 00:34:21,469 S1: 70.5 tax free by giving it through a qualified charitable distribution. 602 00:34:21,469 --> 00:34:25,910 S1: But in the meantime, if we take appreciated stock and 603 00:34:25,910 --> 00:34:29,350 S1: don't sell it, but give it away before you sell it, 604 00:34:29,630 --> 00:34:34,630 S1: then you don't, uh, you know, see any realized capital 605 00:34:34,630 --> 00:34:38,509 S1: gains there, which means no impact on Irma. And you 606 00:34:38,510 --> 00:34:40,750 S1: get more into God's kingdom. And I love what you're 607 00:34:40,750 --> 00:34:44,149 S1: talking about with the ultrasound machines. That's fabulous. And there's 608 00:34:44,150 --> 00:34:47,669 S1: really two ways to do that, Sharon. The first way 609 00:34:47,710 --> 00:34:51,549 S1: would be direct, a direct gift to charity. So you 610 00:34:51,590 --> 00:34:58,510 S1: contact the charity, uh, for stock transfer instructions, your, uh, 611 00:34:58,550 --> 00:35:03,830 S1: custodian or advisor, um, sends the shares directly to the 612 00:35:03,830 --> 00:35:08,390 S1: charity based on those transfer instructions. So the stock is 613 00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:11,790 S1: never sold, and then the charity sells the stock, they 614 00:35:11,790 --> 00:35:15,109 S1: pay no tax, you get no capital gains, and you 615 00:35:15,110 --> 00:35:18,910 S1: get the contribution receipt for the full market value of 616 00:35:18,910 --> 00:35:22,310 S1: the appreciated stock that was transferred. So that's option one. 617 00:35:22,510 --> 00:35:26,430 S1: Option two is you open a donor advised fund. Think 618 00:35:26,430 --> 00:35:29,629 S1: of this like a charitable checking account. And I would 619 00:35:29,630 --> 00:35:32,630 S1: do that with our friends at the National Christian Foundation, 620 00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:37,190 S1: NC comm. Uh, you can open it in five minutes 621 00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:41,190 S1: on their website, and then you can give the appreciated 622 00:35:41,190 --> 00:35:45,230 S1: stock to your donor advised fund in the same way 623 00:35:45,790 --> 00:35:49,069 S1: before it's sold. Once it hits the donor advised fund 624 00:35:49,070 --> 00:35:52,200 S1: at the National Christian Foundation, you'd sell it. The money 625 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,040 S1: stays in the donor advised fund. You get the contribution 626 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,239 S1: receipt for the full amount of the appreciated stock. And 627 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,160 S1: then whenever you decide you want to, you'd get on 628 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,440 S1: their website, open your donor advised fund, and you'd make 629 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:09,520 S1: grants out of it to any 500 1C3 charity, if 630 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:10,480 S1: that makes sense. 631 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,680 S6: It does. And that kind of excites me. I've, um. 632 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,120 S6: I've been trying to figure all this out. I do 633 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,440 S6: have a lot of dividends coming every year. That's my income. 634 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,680 S6: I mean, it's the stuff that comes out of my, um, 635 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,799 S6: investments is about two thirds of my income, because when 636 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,560 S6: my husband passed, he was only 59. And that was 637 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,960 S6: kind of the the prime earning years. And it was 638 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,840 S6: such a out of the blue thing, you know, and 639 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,480 S6: but God's bless me, he's I'm just amazed he's, you know, 640 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,920 S6: he promises to be a husband to the believing widow. Oh, 641 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,320 S6: God's been so good to me. I could I can 642 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,319 S6: tell other women. Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid. He'll 643 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:57,320 S6: take care of you. 644 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,280 S1: Oh, it's so true. And I love that testimony today. What? 645 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,080 S1: What a treat to be able to hear from you today. And, uh, 646 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,560 S1: to be able to encourage you. Uh, you know, I'd 647 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,919 S1: love to be able to send you some resources, some 648 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,080 S1: things that I think will really be a blessing to you. Uh, because, 649 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,600 S1: you know, as you really connect this passion that you 650 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,520 S1: have to the resources God has given you with some 651 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,759 S1: really thoughtful planning, uh, from not only advisors that know 652 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,319 S1: how to be technically proficient, but also understand the heart 653 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,640 S1: of God. And your passion for generosity, I think, would 654 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,720 S1: just be a real blessing. By the way, uh, have 655 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,760 S1: you are you have you run across a ministry called Preborn? 656 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,720 S6: Yes. I was thinking of giving it directly to them, 657 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,520 S6: but also as a coincidence. Yes. 658 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,960 S1: Okay, good. Yeah. I'm just, uh, I'm so struck by 659 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,120 S1: what they do with free ultrasounds to moms considering abortion. 660 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,000 S1: And then, on the heels of that, sharing the love 661 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,560 S1: of Jesus and providing the moms with resources. It's an 662 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,040 S1: incredible ministry, and it seems like it would align very 663 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,359 S1: closely with your heart. So let's do this. Stay on 664 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,040 S1: the line. Sharon, I want to send you a couple 665 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,919 S1: of things, but I think opening that donor advised fund 666 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,839 S1: would be, you know, a great thing to get you 667 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,320 S1: pointed in the right direction. But you can always send 668 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,719 S1: those appreciated stock gifts directly to your church or any 669 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,600 S1: ministry as well. You don't have to go through the 670 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:18,759 S1: donor advised fund. 671 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,880 S6: I appreciate this is very helpful. I lead a widows 672 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:26,680 S6: group and, um, I need to understand something before I 673 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,120 S6: can tell other people about things. But there's so many women. 674 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,000 S6: We we need a little help. We want to be 675 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,680 S6: wise stewards. We want to provide for our our beloved 676 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:41,400 S6: families and children, but we don't want to, um, what's 677 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:46,120 S6: the right word? Um, provide so much that they feel 678 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,640 S6: like they don't have to be worried about things like 679 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:49,640 S6: everybody else. 680 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:50,240 S1: Yes. 681 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,680 S6: That they they need to work like everybody else and 682 00:38:53,719 --> 00:39:00,240 S6: provide for themselves. So my children are not really aware of, um, 683 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,240 S6: in what state their mom is in, so to speak. 684 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,480 S1: Yes, I get it. And that's wise. You know, I 685 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,200 S1: think as the steward, we need to, uh, first of all, 686 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,719 S1: choose the next steward. And that can be, uh, children 687 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,560 S1: and heirs. But it's also ministry. And, you know, I 688 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,000 S1: love what Ron Blue says in his book Splitting Heirs. 689 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,960 S1: He says, do your giving while you're living, so you're 690 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,840 S1: knowing where it's going. And, you know, I think that's 691 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,239 S1: great advice. And obviously the Lord has given you some 692 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:31,600 S1: incredible passions. He's given you the resources because first of all, 693 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,680 S1: it came from him. It belongs to him. You and 694 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:38,080 S1: your husband were great stewards. You've accumulated this wealth, and 695 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:39,839 S1: now he's gone on to be with the Lord. And 696 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,520 S1: you are leaning into these passions that the Lord has 697 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,319 S1: given you around advancing his kingdom in this particular area 698 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:52,239 S1: of of moms and ultrasounds. And what a blessing to 699 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,200 S1: be able to joyfully and cheerfully give as unto the Lord. 700 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,480 S1: And yeah, bless your kids along the way. Uh, but 701 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,120 S1: really discern the right and appropriate amount and balance that 702 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,200 S1: with your giving desires. It's incredible. 703 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,240 S6: Oh, I've just been so blessed by this. The thought 704 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:12,880 S6: that a human life could be saved. Yeah. And they 705 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:17,759 S6: have a great track record of bringing young women who 706 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:23,120 S6: are just in despair to the despair fixer. You know, 707 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,880 S6: they're introducing him to that young woman, to our best friend. 708 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:31,040 S1: It's incredible. Yeah, it really is. Well, listen, what a 709 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,279 S1: treat to talk to you today. Sharon. Stay on the line. 710 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,040 S1: Our team will get your information. I want to send 711 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,360 S1: you a couple of resources that I think will be 712 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,959 S1: an encouragement to you. Thanks for being on the broadcast today. 713 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,089 S1: Lord bless you. Let's finish in Indianapolis. Kendra, have just 714 00:40:44,090 --> 00:40:45,410 S1: about a minute and a half. Go ahead. 715 00:40:45,450 --> 00:40:48,690 S7: Yes. Um, thank you for bringing up such an important 716 00:40:48,730 --> 00:40:51,450 S7: topic on gambling. It made me think right away of 717 00:40:51,450 --> 00:40:55,129 S7: the negative effects. I had a family in the 80s, 718 00:40:55,170 --> 00:40:57,930 S7: of course, when I was growing up. Who, uh, was 719 00:40:57,930 --> 00:41:02,690 S7: destroyed by gambling, the casinos, all of that. Uh, unfortunately, 720 00:41:02,690 --> 00:41:06,010 S7: there's a lot of crime even involved with. Yes. You know, 721 00:41:06,810 --> 00:41:09,530 S7: maybe even sex trafficking, I hate to say. Or human. 722 00:41:09,570 --> 00:41:13,210 S7: Who knows? But it's definitely negative. It destroyed their family. 723 00:41:13,250 --> 00:41:15,450 S7: They were, you know, going into poverty. And, you know, 724 00:41:15,489 --> 00:41:18,410 S7: we're still friends. My mother's friends with the mother, unfortunately. 725 00:41:18,410 --> 00:41:21,410 S7: And bless the widow who's just gone. But yeah. And 726 00:41:21,450 --> 00:41:23,770 S7: I'm a single mom, so the Lord's my husband. But, 727 00:41:23,810 --> 00:41:26,850 S7: you know, uh, this woman, she was going to lose 728 00:41:26,850 --> 00:41:31,970 S7: it all because her husband was addicted to gambling. So terrible. Wow. 729 00:41:32,170 --> 00:41:35,969 S1: Yes. Well, I'm so thrilled we could address it. And, uh, 730 00:41:35,969 --> 00:41:37,689 S1: you know, I think Kyle did a great job really 731 00:41:37,690 --> 00:41:41,890 S1: unpacking it biblically. So I appreciate your encouragement to that end. 732 00:41:42,170 --> 00:41:43,930 S1: Did you have a question or were you just wanting 733 00:41:43,969 --> 00:41:45,570 S1: to affirm today's topic? 734 00:41:46,489 --> 00:41:50,370 S7: Yeah, that's a formation of the topic. And also, you know, 735 00:41:50,410 --> 00:41:53,370 S7: consider that our current president was also a contributor to 736 00:41:53,410 --> 00:41:56,529 S7: that in the 80s with his casinos. Um, but yeah, 737 00:41:56,570 --> 00:42:00,569 S7: my question. Uh, yeah. Just for critical thinking and reach 738 00:42:00,570 --> 00:42:04,090 S7: out to your reps. Um, we do need to consider 739 00:42:04,090 --> 00:42:08,009 S7: our tax dollars. Um, but in regards to, uh, me 740 00:42:08,010 --> 00:42:12,890 S7: as an investor, how is that different from gambling? Are you. 741 00:42:13,170 --> 00:42:15,529 S1: Wondering? I'm really short on time, but I'll give you 742 00:42:15,530 --> 00:42:19,610 S1: a quick answer. You know, investing, unlike gambling, is supplying 743 00:42:19,610 --> 00:42:23,890 S1: capital to business. And business really is the basis for 744 00:42:23,890 --> 00:42:26,370 S1: all human flourishing. If you think about it, business is 745 00:42:26,370 --> 00:42:30,250 S1: the only institution that generates wealth. As long as those 746 00:42:30,250 --> 00:42:33,850 S1: products and services are good and serve people. Hey, we'll 747 00:42:33,850 --> 00:42:36,170 S1: talk more about this tomorrow. Big thanks to my team. 748 00:42:36,170 --> 00:42:38,370 S1: Josh Taylor to hear. And Omar. We'll see you then. 749 00:42:38,370 --> 00:42:38,850 S1: Bye bye.