1 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:12,720 S1: Spending decisions aren't just financial, they reveal what and whom 2 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:17,040 S1: we value. Hi, I'm Rob West. Jonah's Old Testament story 3 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,280 S1: isn't only about a prophet running from God. It also 4 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,919 S1: gives us a surprising look at how our financial choices 5 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,440 S1: mirror the condition of our hearts today. Doctor Kelly Rush 6 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,320 S1: joins us to unpack how the way we spend money 7 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,760 S1: is inseparably connected to our walk with the Lord. Then 8 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:38,280 S1: it's on to your calls at 800 525 7000. This 9 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:45,840 S1: is faith and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, 10 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,800 S1: our guest today is Doctor Kelly Rush, professor of finance, 11 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,959 S1: financial planning program coordinator and business and technology chair at 12 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,480 S1: Mount Vernon Nazarene University. She's devoted to helping students develop 13 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,810 S1: a biblical worldview of money. And today she brings that 14 00:01:00,810 --> 00:01:05,050 S1: same wisdom to our conversation about Jonah. Kelly, great to 15 00:01:05,050 --> 00:01:06,250 S1: have you back with us. 16 00:01:06,290 --> 00:01:08,369 S2: Well thank you, Rob. Always great to be here. 17 00:01:08,610 --> 00:01:12,970 S1: Kelly, I am so excited about the feature article you 18 00:01:12,970 --> 00:01:16,369 S1: did for our latest issue of Faithful Steward, our magazine. 19 00:01:16,569 --> 00:01:19,569 S1: And you make a striking claim, and that is that 20 00:01:19,569 --> 00:01:24,650 S1: every spending decision is a spiritual decision. Unpack that for us. 21 00:01:24,970 --> 00:01:28,570 S2: Well, our spending habits reveal what matters most to us. 22 00:01:29,010 --> 00:01:32,730 S2: We say money is a mirror because money reflects what 23 00:01:32,730 --> 00:01:36,009 S2: we value, what we care about, what we're choosing in life. 24 00:01:36,010 --> 00:01:39,569 S2: We see that in Jonah's story. His actions show us 25 00:01:39,569 --> 00:01:42,850 S2: that money and motives move in the same direction. This 26 00:01:42,850 --> 00:01:46,209 S2: is not a modern day phenomenon. This is fundamental to 27 00:01:46,250 --> 00:01:49,370 S2: human nature. I love how we see evidence of the 28 00:01:49,370 --> 00:01:52,730 S2: financial principles we teach in the very words of Scripture. 29 00:01:52,970 --> 00:01:55,610 S2: Helps us to understand that characters like Jonah that we 30 00:01:55,610 --> 00:01:58,210 S2: read about in the Bible are people just like us 31 00:01:58,300 --> 00:02:01,460 S2: and their interactions of faith and finances are very similar 32 00:02:01,460 --> 00:02:04,300 S2: to ours. Yes. You know, many people don't even realize 33 00:02:04,300 --> 00:02:06,300 S2: there's money in the book of Jonah, but it shows 34 00:02:06,300 --> 00:02:09,100 S2: up twice, and both times it shows us that spending 35 00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:11,299 S2: decisions are spiritual decisions. 36 00:02:11,340 --> 00:02:14,059 S1: Well, it sure does. And this may be a surprising 37 00:02:14,060 --> 00:02:17,500 S1: revelation to the story that our listeners know so well 38 00:02:17,500 --> 00:02:20,620 S1: the story of Jonah. But one of the first major 39 00:02:20,620 --> 00:02:24,580 S1: moments is that he actually paid to run from God. 40 00:02:24,580 --> 00:02:28,300 S1: So how does that detail. Perhaps we've read and overlooked 41 00:02:28,300 --> 00:02:31,660 S1: in the past, how does it reveal the spiritual dimension 42 00:02:31,660 --> 00:02:32,900 S1: of our spending? Kelly. 43 00:02:33,380 --> 00:02:36,419 S2: Well, in that first chapter of Jonah, God calls Jonah 44 00:02:36,419 --> 00:02:39,140 S2: to deliver a message of repentance to the people of Nineveh. 45 00:02:39,500 --> 00:02:43,660 S2: And instead of obeying that call, Jonah paid the fare 46 00:02:43,700 --> 00:02:46,459 S2: for a ship ride to Tarshish. He was fleeing from 47 00:02:46,460 --> 00:02:49,220 S2: the presence of the Lord, and he paid the fare 48 00:02:49,220 --> 00:02:52,020 S2: as he fled. Of all those ship rides in the Bible, 49 00:02:52,020 --> 00:02:54,900 S2: this is the only one where the fare is specifically mentioned. 50 00:02:55,139 --> 00:02:57,989 S2: God literally tells us that running away from him came 51 00:02:57,990 --> 00:03:02,190 S2: at a financial cost. And that same principle is true today. 52 00:03:02,190 --> 00:03:05,990 S2: When our hearts move off course, our spending decisions will 53 00:03:05,990 --> 00:03:08,230 S2: financially do the exact same thing. 54 00:03:08,750 --> 00:03:12,430 S1: And Jonah's rebellion didn't just cost him. Those sailors paid 55 00:03:12,430 --> 00:03:15,389 S1: a price as well. So what did that show us 56 00:03:15,389 --> 00:03:19,669 S1: about the ripple effects of our financial decisions and and 57 00:03:19,669 --> 00:03:21,149 S1: how they can impact others? 58 00:03:21,510 --> 00:03:23,950 S2: That's correct. When the Lord sent a storm to get 59 00:03:23,950 --> 00:03:27,510 S2: Jonah's attention, the sailors were financially impacted. That's a detail 60 00:03:27,510 --> 00:03:30,149 S2: that's easy to miss as well. The sailors threw their 61 00:03:30,150 --> 00:03:33,149 S2: valuable cargo overboard to try to save their ship and 62 00:03:33,150 --> 00:03:36,550 S2: their lives. They lost their inventory in one night. It 63 00:03:36,550 --> 00:03:40,150 S2: was Jonah's disobedience the Lord was correcting, but the sailors 64 00:03:40,150 --> 00:03:43,750 S2: also paid the price. The same is true of us today. 65 00:03:43,790 --> 00:03:48,070 S2: Poor stewardship in our lives rarely stays contained. People around 66 00:03:48,070 --> 00:03:50,910 S2: us will feel it when our spiritual and financial decisions 67 00:03:50,910 --> 00:03:56,710 S2: miss the mark. Families, businesses, ministries, communities can all be affected, 68 00:03:56,710 --> 00:04:00,470 S2: but the opposite is also true. Faithful stewardship will have 69 00:04:00,470 --> 00:04:03,110 S2: ripple effects of blessing on others as well. 70 00:04:03,150 --> 00:04:06,230 S1: Yeah, that's exactly right. And perhaps we haven't thought about 71 00:04:06,230 --> 00:04:09,790 S1: it in that way, that not only are we affecting 72 00:04:09,830 --> 00:04:13,550 S1: our own lives and in ways beyond financial, but the 73 00:04:13,550 --> 00:04:16,990 S1: same is true as it goes beyond us. Now. Once 74 00:04:16,990 --> 00:04:21,470 S1: Jonah is inside the fish, everything shifted. So how does 75 00:04:21,470 --> 00:04:24,950 S1: genuine repentance shape the way we approach money? Kelly. 76 00:04:25,670 --> 00:04:28,150 S2: You're right. That's what we see in Jonah chapter two. 77 00:04:28,190 --> 00:04:30,430 S2: When Jonah is inside the fish, he cries out to 78 00:04:30,470 --> 00:04:33,830 S2: the Lord. He repents of his disobedience. He says with 79 00:04:33,830 --> 00:04:37,510 S2: the voice of thanksgiving, I will pay what I have vowed. 80 00:04:37,710 --> 00:04:40,510 S2: Salvation is of the Lord. And this time what Jonah 81 00:04:40,510 --> 00:04:43,310 S2: pays isn't money, but repentance. He makes a vow and 82 00:04:43,310 --> 00:04:47,070 S2: commits to obedience and follow through. When Jonah's heart was right, 83 00:04:47,110 --> 00:04:49,790 S2: his payment was too. And the same is true for 84 00:04:49,790 --> 00:04:54,030 S2: us today. Repentance can redirect spending away from what harms 85 00:04:54,029 --> 00:04:55,799 S2: and toward what honors God. 86 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,760 S1: Mhm. Boy, that is so good. Well we're talking about 87 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:04,200 S1: this truth today that spending decisions really are spiritual decisions. 88 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,800 S1: And this story from the Old Testament of Jonah is 89 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,360 S1: a powerful illustration of that. Doctor Kelly Rush from Mount 90 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,000 S1: Vernon Nazarene University here today. This is faith and finance. 91 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,839 S1: Live biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Much more to 92 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:39,479 S1: come just around the corner. Stick around. Have you thought 93 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:43,760 S1: about the fact that spending decisions are really spiritual decisions? 94 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,080 S1: That's what we're talking about today through a story I 95 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,760 S1: know you're familiar with. It's the Old Testament story of Jonah, 96 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,250 S1: this prophet running from God and this truth that spending 97 00:05:55,250 --> 00:06:00,330 S1: decisions really are spiritual decisions shows up in this story. 98 00:06:00,370 --> 00:06:03,529 S1: Joining me today is Doctor Kelly Rush. She's professor of finance, 99 00:06:03,529 --> 00:06:07,490 S1: financial planning program coordinator and business and technology chair at 100 00:06:07,490 --> 00:06:11,809 S1: Mount Vernon Nazarene University. By the way, Mount Vernon is 101 00:06:11,810 --> 00:06:16,089 S1: one of those universities that teaches the CFP, the Certified 102 00:06:16,089 --> 00:06:20,530 S1: Financial Planner, and the CCA the Certified Kingdom Advisor, training 103 00:06:20,529 --> 00:06:24,690 S1: the next generation of financial advisors to enter the business 104 00:06:24,690 --> 00:06:28,090 S1: with a biblical worldview and thinking about impact. And she 105 00:06:28,089 --> 00:06:31,130 S1: does such a fabulous job. She also serves as on 106 00:06:31,130 --> 00:06:34,530 S1: the board of directors here at Kingdom Advisors. But Kelly, 107 00:06:34,810 --> 00:06:37,370 S1: let's for those just joining us back up for a 108 00:06:37,370 --> 00:06:40,529 S1: second and just tell us where is it in this 109 00:06:40,529 --> 00:06:43,969 S1: story of Jonah that this truth shows up. 110 00:06:44,290 --> 00:06:48,010 S2: Yeah. And that truth is that financial decisions are spiritual decisions. 111 00:06:48,010 --> 00:06:50,770 S2: And we see that really plainly in the story of Jonah, 112 00:06:50,810 --> 00:06:53,540 S2: just right off the bat. In the very first chapter, 113 00:06:53,540 --> 00:06:56,500 S2: Jonah is running away from the presence of the Lord, 114 00:06:56,500 --> 00:06:58,739 S2: and in order to run away as far as he can, 115 00:06:58,779 --> 00:07:01,460 S2: he has to spend money to pay for a fare 116 00:07:01,460 --> 00:07:03,580 S2: to get to Tarshish, when the Lord had sent him 117 00:07:03,580 --> 00:07:06,620 S2: to Nineveh. And so we see that rebellion and the 118 00:07:06,620 --> 00:07:09,980 S2: financial implications of his rebellion in the first chapter. In 119 00:07:09,980 --> 00:07:12,700 S2: the second chapter, we see that the Lord has called 120 00:07:12,700 --> 00:07:15,420 S2: him to repentance, has brought him back. And he says, 121 00:07:15,420 --> 00:07:17,900 S2: I'm going to pay now what I have vowed and 122 00:07:17,900 --> 00:07:20,060 S2: what he vowed in chapter two was repentance. And he 123 00:07:20,060 --> 00:07:22,500 S2: followed through with that. And so we see, both for 124 00:07:22,500 --> 00:07:26,220 S2: the good and for the ill, that Jonah's financial decisions 125 00:07:26,220 --> 00:07:28,140 S2: reflected his spiritual state. 126 00:07:28,380 --> 00:07:30,820 S1: Well, that's exactly right. And I want to unpack this 127 00:07:30,820 --> 00:07:33,700 S1: idea of this vow. He makes a bit more, as 128 00:07:33,700 --> 00:07:37,580 S1: you said, he actually follows through. So what does faithful 129 00:07:37,580 --> 00:07:40,940 S1: follow through look like for believers today, those listening to 130 00:07:40,940 --> 00:07:41,980 S1: this broadcast? 131 00:07:42,020 --> 00:07:44,340 S2: Yeah, I think today it looks like having a budget 132 00:07:44,340 --> 00:07:48,060 S2: and sticking to it. It looks like keeping the commitments 133 00:07:48,060 --> 00:07:51,030 S2: that we make to generosity. And even if that generosity 134 00:07:51,030 --> 00:07:54,750 S2: commitment stretches us, it looks like giving as a form 135 00:07:54,750 --> 00:07:58,830 S2: of worship rather than an obligation in our finances. You know, 136 00:07:58,870 --> 00:08:01,390 S2: staying faithful to what we believe God has asked us 137 00:08:01,390 --> 00:08:06,150 S2: to do in terms of saving, investing, repaying debts, always 138 00:08:06,150 --> 00:08:09,510 S2: being honest, and acting with integrity in our financial habits. 139 00:08:10,110 --> 00:08:12,670 S2: Those are the things today that are spiritual. Decisions can 140 00:08:12,670 --> 00:08:14,830 S2: be reflected in our financial decisions. 141 00:08:15,030 --> 00:08:17,270 S1: Well, I think that's exactly right. And, you know, when 142 00:08:17,270 --> 00:08:20,190 S1: we look at our own lives, our budgets can be 143 00:08:20,190 --> 00:08:23,950 S1: surprisingly revealing. And perhaps this is a new idea for 144 00:08:23,950 --> 00:08:27,350 S1: our listeners that our budget, our spending tells a story 145 00:08:27,550 --> 00:08:31,870 S1: about what we value most. And maybe we're saying, wait 146 00:08:31,870 --> 00:08:34,670 S1: a minute. I don't think these two things line up. 147 00:08:34,750 --> 00:08:37,670 S1: So what might someone's budget say about their walk with 148 00:08:37,670 --> 00:08:38,270 S1: the Lord? 149 00:08:38,309 --> 00:08:42,550 S2: Yeah, well, budgets put dollars and cents to what we prioritize. 150 00:08:42,990 --> 00:08:47,110 S2: They show whether we're seeking God's kingdom or running from him. 151 00:08:47,110 --> 00:08:50,480 S2: We see that in, for example, patterns of generosity. You know, 152 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,720 S2: those tell a very powerful story, but a lack of 153 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,120 S2: generosity also tells a story. We see it in the 154 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,079 S2: way that we spend for lifestyle spending and will tell 155 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,880 S2: us what we're pursuing in life. Our use of debt 156 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,960 S2: can also reveal what our walk with the Lord looks like, 157 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,960 S2: whether we're relying on him or we're relying on our 158 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,200 S2: credit card or something like that, but we see it 159 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,040 S2: in dollars and cents in our budgets. 160 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,440 S1: Yeah, we sure do. And I love one of the 161 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,000 S1: things you do in the article so well. And by 162 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,640 S1: the way, this article is found that we're referring to 163 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,440 S1: today on Jonah from Doctor Rush is found in our 164 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,000 S1: latest issue of Faithful Steward, our magazine. I'll tell you 165 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,280 S1: how you can get it a little later here in 166 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:31,880 S1: just a moment. But one of the things you do 167 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:36,640 S1: in the article, Kelly, is you provide several diagnostic questions. Uh, 168 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,720 S1: why are questions about generosity and lifestyle choices so important 169 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,000 S1: for us to wrestle with? 170 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:43,439 S3: Well, they help us honestly. 171 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,480 S2: Assess how we're doing God's resources and whether or not 172 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,560 S2: we're doing that in a way that honors him. So 173 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,319 S2: questions like, am I making wise spending decisions related to 174 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:57,480 S2: lifestyle expenses? And am I supporting my local church through 175 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,719 S2: tithes and offerings? Those questions nudge my heart towards what 176 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,320 S2: God values, because I want to be able to answer 177 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,160 S2: these questions with yes, yes, I'm making wise spending decisions 178 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,200 S2: related to lifestyle. Yes, I'm supporting my local church. When 179 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,120 S2: we can honestly answer yes to these questions, we are 180 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,920 S2: reminded that stewardship isn't just personal, it's meant to bless others. 181 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:22,160 S1: Yeah, for somebody listening today who's saying, you know what? 182 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,080 S1: I don't think what I want to matter most in 183 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,920 S1: my life is reflective of my budget today. I know 184 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,800 S1: Jonah's story offers some encouragement there because it's packed with 185 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,600 S1: second chances. So how does that offer hope to someone 186 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,199 S1: who feels like they've already made some big mistakes financially? 187 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,400 S2: Well, God didn't give up on Jonah. He pursued him. 188 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:48,330 S2: God sent a storm. Frightened sailors. A big fish. Hard 189 00:10:48,330 --> 00:10:52,689 S2: to imagine consequences. To change Jonah's course and correct his disobedience. 190 00:10:53,050 --> 00:10:56,570 S2: And that's God's kindness at work. It's his kindness that 191 00:10:56,610 --> 00:11:00,290 S2: leads us to repentance in spite of his spiritual disobedience 192 00:11:00,290 --> 00:11:04,250 S2: and his disobedience. God had a plan for Jonah. Financial 193 00:11:04,250 --> 00:11:08,690 S2: mistakes did not disqualify Jonah, and they do not disqualify us. 194 00:11:09,010 --> 00:11:11,929 S2: God loves giving his people fresh starts. 195 00:11:12,210 --> 00:11:13,689 S4: There's no doubt about that. 196 00:11:13,730 --> 00:11:17,449 S1: Kelly, in your experience, what's the biggest misconception Christians have 197 00:11:17,450 --> 00:11:20,209 S1: when it comes to spending and spirituality? 198 00:11:20,650 --> 00:11:24,569 S2: Many people assume that money and faith are silos, that 199 00:11:24,570 --> 00:11:29,689 S2: they don't interact. But Scripture always connects our financial decisions 200 00:11:29,690 --> 00:11:34,490 S2: to what spiritually matters to us. Jesus spoke often about stewardship, 201 00:11:34,530 --> 00:11:38,730 S2: about sacrifice, being a heart issue, and our spending choice 202 00:11:38,730 --> 00:11:41,210 S2: reveals something about what we believe. 203 00:11:41,490 --> 00:11:44,650 S1: You know, I'm curious. As I mentioned, you train and 204 00:11:44,740 --> 00:11:48,980 S1: teach students in these ideas every day, and I love 205 00:11:48,980 --> 00:11:52,220 S1: how you take them into. God's word, as they understand 206 00:11:52,220 --> 00:11:55,060 S1: their financial journey and how it intersects with their hearts. 207 00:11:55,260 --> 00:11:59,100 S1: How did they receive this? Is this a big brand 208 00:11:59,100 --> 00:12:00,180 S1: new idea for them? 209 00:12:00,620 --> 00:12:02,620 S2: Well, the story of Jonah is not a big brand 210 00:12:02,620 --> 00:12:05,780 S2: new idea to them, but the fact that there's money 211 00:12:05,780 --> 00:12:08,940 S2: embedded in these stories, in so many other stories, in 212 00:12:08,940 --> 00:12:11,699 S2: both the Old and New Testament, it's like the light 213 00:12:11,740 --> 00:12:15,179 S2: bulb goes off like, oh, yeah, I see it too. 214 00:12:15,420 --> 00:12:18,220 S2: I call it an occupational hazard. I can't help but 215 00:12:18,220 --> 00:12:20,900 S2: see money in the Bible. And to point those things 216 00:12:20,900 --> 00:12:23,420 S2: out to students. I love when their eyes light up 217 00:12:23,420 --> 00:12:24,579 S2: over this kind of stuff. 218 00:12:24,780 --> 00:12:26,780 S1: I'm sure you do. And you're so good at it. 219 00:12:26,780 --> 00:12:29,340 S1: All right, uh, last question. We're about out of time, 220 00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:32,260 S1: but for someone who wants their spending to reflect God's 221 00:12:32,260 --> 00:12:34,540 S1: generous heart, where do they start? 222 00:12:34,540 --> 00:12:37,819 S2: Well, begin with prayer. Ask God to shape your desires 223 00:12:37,820 --> 00:12:41,099 S2: so that they match his. I would say put generosity 224 00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:43,870 S2: in the budget intentionally and put it at the top 225 00:12:43,870 --> 00:12:46,790 S2: of the spending plan. Not at the bottom, not the leftovers. 226 00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:49,870 S2: You can invite wise friends into the process to help 227 00:12:49,870 --> 00:12:53,470 S2: you stay encouraged and accountable, especially when it comes to 228 00:12:53,510 --> 00:12:56,710 S2: lifestyle spending and the use of debt. Then, as you 229 00:12:56,710 --> 00:13:01,350 S2: journey through life, remember spending decisions are spiritual decisions and 230 00:13:01,350 --> 00:13:03,550 S2: you'll keep yourself on a path that brings glory to 231 00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:04,990 S2: God in your finances. 232 00:13:05,470 --> 00:13:09,110 S1: Kelly, that was such a helpful reminder today that money 233 00:13:09,110 --> 00:13:12,190 S1: always tells a story. And the good news is that 234 00:13:12,190 --> 00:13:15,910 S1: God offers us the grace and wisdom to align those 235 00:13:15,910 --> 00:13:18,710 S1: choices with his purposes. Thanks so much for being here today. 236 00:13:18,910 --> 00:13:20,270 S2: Thank you for having me, Rob. 237 00:13:20,309 --> 00:13:23,150 S1: All right, folks, if you're hearing Doctor Rush today and 238 00:13:23,150 --> 00:13:25,590 S1: you're saying I've got a student that needs to be 239 00:13:25,590 --> 00:13:29,830 S1: in her class, perhaps pursuing a career in faith based 240 00:13:29,830 --> 00:13:32,910 S1: financial advice and investing. You can learn more at Mount 241 00:13:32,910 --> 00:13:39,550 S1: Vernon Nazarene University's website. M n u dot. Now, we'd 242 00:13:39,550 --> 00:13:41,590 S1: love for you to be able to read this article. 243 00:13:41,630 --> 00:13:45,439 S1: Spending decisions or Spiritual Decisions? It's in the latest issue 244 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:49,480 S1: of Faithful Steward, our quarterly print magazine for faith partners. 245 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,199 S1: Partners are those who give $35 a month or $400 246 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,640 S1: a year, and they receive exclusive benefits, including premium access 247 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,960 S1: to the Faith VI app and new resources, including my 248 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,160 S1: new devotional, Our Ultimate Treasure, releasing later this month. If 249 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,079 S1: you want to learn more, go to Faith. Com. All right, 250 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:13,640 S1: your calls are next 800 525 7000. This is faith 251 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:18,040 S1: and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. We'll 252 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:18,840 S1: be right back. 253 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,450 S5: The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or 254 00:14:41,450 --> 00:14:45,770 S5: professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only. 255 00:14:45,930 --> 00:14:49,330 S5: Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from 256 00:14:49,330 --> 00:14:53,770 S5: a financial, medical, legal, or other professional who understands your 257 00:14:53,770 --> 00:14:55,290 S5: specific situation. 258 00:15:01,850 --> 00:15:04,690 S1: Well, thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live. 259 00:15:04,690 --> 00:15:06,970 S1: I'm Rob West. We're going to be taking your calls 260 00:15:06,970 --> 00:15:09,330 S1: and questions here in just a moment. So if you'd 261 00:15:09,330 --> 00:15:11,730 S1: like to be a part of the conversation today, we 262 00:15:11,730 --> 00:15:14,690 S1: would certainly invite you to do just that. When you 263 00:15:14,730 --> 00:15:21,970 S1: call 800 525 7000, again, that number is 800 525 7000. 264 00:15:22,010 --> 00:15:25,130 S1: We've got some lines open today. We will look forward to, uh, 265 00:15:25,170 --> 00:15:28,810 S1: tackling whatever you're thinking about in your financial life. And 266 00:15:28,810 --> 00:15:30,530 S1: let's do that right now. We're going to begin in 267 00:15:30,530 --> 00:15:32,450 S1: Ohio today, Anna. Go right ahead. 268 00:15:33,490 --> 00:15:36,850 S6: Hi, Rob. Thanks for taking my call. Of course, my 269 00:15:36,850 --> 00:15:40,610 S6: husband and I are debt free, and our retirement is 270 00:15:40,610 --> 00:15:44,970 S6: already being started through mixed accounts, including a Roth and 271 00:15:44,970 --> 00:15:48,650 S6: some traditional investments. I'm a state employee, so I have 272 00:15:48,650 --> 00:15:52,650 S6: access to deferred compensation options. So we think these are 273 00:15:52,690 --> 00:15:55,330 S6: healthy starts, but they have room to grow or we 274 00:15:55,330 --> 00:15:58,650 S6: have room to do something else. Um, we're trying to 275 00:15:58,650 --> 00:16:01,730 S6: be intentional about two things strengthening our retirement and also 276 00:16:01,730 --> 00:16:05,010 S6: planning for our children's future. A friend in the financial 277 00:16:05,010 --> 00:16:08,610 S6: industry is strongly suggesting that we look into a whole 278 00:16:08,650 --> 00:16:12,450 S6: life insurance investment, paying a higher premium so it eventually 279 00:16:12,450 --> 00:16:17,370 S6: supports itself and could be borrowed against in the future, etc.. Um, 280 00:16:17,370 --> 00:16:21,290 S6: I'm asking, is this a wise investment or are maybe 281 00:16:21,330 --> 00:16:23,570 S6: we're being scammed or being misled? 282 00:16:24,290 --> 00:16:27,050 S1: Yeah, I wouldn't go as far as scammed or misled, 283 00:16:27,050 --> 00:16:29,250 S1: but I don't know that this would be my first 284 00:16:29,250 --> 00:16:32,570 S1: choice for you, just given what you've described here. I'm 285 00:16:32,570 --> 00:16:35,250 S1: delighted to hear that. Uh, you're putting some of those 286 00:16:35,250 --> 00:16:38,460 S1: key building blocks in place. You're debt free. You're making 287 00:16:38,460 --> 00:16:42,260 S1: wise decisions. You're preparing for retirement. You're doing that in 288 00:16:42,260 --> 00:16:44,740 S1: a systematic way. I love the idea that you want 289 00:16:44,740 --> 00:16:47,260 S1: to get ahead of planning for the future, not only 290 00:16:47,260 --> 00:16:49,820 S1: for yourself, but you know, to the extent you have 291 00:16:49,820 --> 00:16:54,260 S1: the ability beyond saving for retirement and giving currently and 292 00:16:54,260 --> 00:16:57,540 S1: remaining debt free. Setting something aside for the kids, all 293 00:16:57,580 --> 00:16:59,260 S1: that is a good thing. The question is how to 294 00:16:59,260 --> 00:17:02,940 S1: go about it. And usually I like to, and with 295 00:17:02,940 --> 00:17:08,459 S1: some exceptions, keep insurance for offsetting a risk, not making 296 00:17:08,460 --> 00:17:11,940 S1: it a savings vehicle. And that's usually when it's being 297 00:17:11,940 --> 00:17:16,300 S1: proposed in a whole life fashion. We're mixing the the insurance, 298 00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:20,619 S1: the death benefit, which is very necessary with a savings vehicle, 299 00:17:20,619 --> 00:17:24,300 S1: which is often looking to a product that was not 300 00:17:24,300 --> 00:17:28,180 S1: intended for savings to do something that it really wasn't 301 00:17:28,180 --> 00:17:31,659 S1: created to do. I would prefer you do that through 302 00:17:32,220 --> 00:17:36,870 S1: other means, namely retirement accounts, a Roth IRA for each 303 00:17:36,869 --> 00:17:39,470 S1: of you. And if you have the ability to do more, 304 00:17:39,750 --> 00:17:44,070 S1: you know, perhaps just some straight, uh, investments, um, where 305 00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:47,590 S1: you're not mixing your insurance and your savings. But what 306 00:17:47,630 --> 00:17:51,670 S1: specifically was recommended to you? What what type of insurance policy? 307 00:17:52,750 --> 00:17:56,949 S6: Um, it was through Northwest Mutual. Um, I guess maybe 308 00:17:56,950 --> 00:18:01,149 S6: where I'm having some doubts is I don't fully understand it. Um, 309 00:18:01,390 --> 00:18:04,429 S6: and that's kind of that's that's where we're struggling a 310 00:18:04,430 --> 00:18:06,390 S6: little bit is they're asking for quite a bit of 311 00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:10,670 S6: money up front. Um, and then basically telling us that, 312 00:18:10,710 --> 00:18:13,670 S6: you know, we would pay a large premium for ten 313 00:18:13,670 --> 00:18:16,909 S6: years or so and then we would be able to, um, 314 00:18:17,550 --> 00:18:21,030 S6: you know, borrow, borrow against it or use against it, 315 00:18:21,030 --> 00:18:24,230 S6: that type of stuff. So it's a, it's a life insurance. 316 00:18:24,270 --> 00:18:26,590 S6: It's a, it's a whole life insurance policy. 317 00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:30,190 S1: Yeah. Got it. Yeah. So this is what's called a 318 00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:34,670 S1: ten pay uh often where you kind of it's paid 319 00:18:34,670 --> 00:18:38,360 S1: up life insurance where you have a large premium for 320 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,800 S1: ten years. It locks up a lot of cash, and 321 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:43,320 S1: a large portion of that's going to go to a 322 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,480 S1: commission and early costs, not growth. So you may end 323 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,320 S1: up having a lower cash value than you expect in 324 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,439 S1: the first 5 to 10 years, because you're paying now 325 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,280 S1: for benefits you may not get for a long time. 326 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,440 S1: So that'd be the first downside is just the high 327 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,880 S1: up front costs. I think, you know, the other issue is, uh, 328 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,840 S1: you know, the cash value is not free money. Borrowing 329 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,640 S1: against the policy. Sounds appealing, but you pay interest on 330 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,920 S1: your own loan. It reduces your death benefit if it's 331 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:19,200 S1: not repaid. If the policy underperforms, the loans plus the 332 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,959 S1: interest can erode the value. And in some cases, the 333 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,760 S1: policy could even lapse and and trigger a tax bill. 334 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,840 S1: So loans aren't, quote, risk free. And then I think 335 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,760 S1: the biggest issue is just the returns are often lower 336 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,969 S1: than the alternatives. So people often compare these to a 337 00:19:35,970 --> 00:19:38,929 S1: stock market or an index return, you know, or a 338 00:19:38,930 --> 00:19:44,450 S1: Roth IRA invested in a properly diversified portfolio and permanent insurance, 339 00:19:44,450 --> 00:19:47,410 S1: which is what whole life insurance is, is usually not 340 00:19:47,609 --> 00:19:52,450 S1: the best growth vehicle unless you absolutely need the insurance 341 00:19:52,450 --> 00:19:56,410 S1: and other tools are already maxed out. So I guess 342 00:19:56,410 --> 00:19:58,449 S1: that would be the only remaining question is, do you 343 00:19:58,450 --> 00:20:02,570 S1: have the ability to do more in your other investment vehicles, 344 00:20:02,970 --> 00:20:05,290 S1: or have you kind of maxed all those out? 345 00:20:05,450 --> 00:20:07,450 S6: Um, I think we have a little bit of room 346 00:20:07,450 --> 00:20:09,890 S6: to do more. I think. I think the, the long 347 00:20:09,890 --> 00:20:12,690 S6: and short of it is, is that, um, you know, 348 00:20:13,210 --> 00:20:16,369 S6: investments is not necessarily something that I feel my husband 349 00:20:16,369 --> 00:20:19,250 S6: or I feel greatly strong with. It's something that we're 350 00:20:19,250 --> 00:20:23,050 S6: learning a lot about. Um, you know, for the last 351 00:20:23,210 --> 00:20:26,410 S6: 15 years, it was all about save everything possible so 352 00:20:26,410 --> 00:20:28,810 S6: we would have money to invest. And now we've reached 353 00:20:28,810 --> 00:20:32,050 S6: that point, and now we're almost just stuck in, like, 354 00:20:32,090 --> 00:20:36,860 S6: not always knowing where to go. Um, and he's my 355 00:20:36,859 --> 00:20:42,060 S6: husband is self-employed. And so we're a little leery about, like, 356 00:20:42,100 --> 00:20:45,619 S6: wrapping absolutely everything up in a Ross or some of 357 00:20:45,619 --> 00:20:49,340 S6: the Ohio, like, deferred compensation programs, because then we feel 358 00:20:49,340 --> 00:20:54,780 S6: like it's completely untouchable, um, until we're retirement age. And 359 00:20:54,780 --> 00:20:57,420 S6: just kind of that we're, you know, have a, have 360 00:20:57,420 --> 00:21:00,420 S6: an emergency fund if something were to happen. But just 361 00:21:00,460 --> 00:21:03,219 S6: kind of that like we want a little bit of flexibility, 362 00:21:03,220 --> 00:21:05,459 S6: but we also want it to grow, I guess we 363 00:21:05,460 --> 00:21:06,820 S6: want our cake and eat it too. 364 00:21:07,180 --> 00:21:10,300 S1: Yeah. So do you. Would you consider your emergency fund 365 00:21:10,300 --> 00:21:11,740 S1: fully funded at this point? 366 00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:14,140 S6: I think so, yeah. Okay. 367 00:21:14,180 --> 00:21:17,300 S1: Yeah. So and you know, with him being self-employed, the 368 00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:20,580 S1: other option you have is something called a sep IRA. Sep. 369 00:21:20,619 --> 00:21:21,980 S1: Are you familiar with that term? 370 00:21:22,460 --> 00:21:23,580 S6: No, I don't think so. 371 00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:27,700 S1: Okay. Yeah. So this is what's called a simplified employee pension. 372 00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:31,830 S1: And it's used by self-employed individuals and small businesses, you 373 00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:37,030 S1: can put in up to 25% of eligible compensation, up 374 00:21:37,030 --> 00:21:42,510 S1: to 72,000 for 2026. And that would be tax deductible. 375 00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:45,470 S1: Let me just recommend you get a second opinion on this. 376 00:21:45,470 --> 00:21:47,990 S1: Maybe somebody who's going to be less prone to use 377 00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:51,710 S1: an insurance product to solve, uh, you know, the questions 378 00:21:51,710 --> 00:21:54,830 S1: you have moving forward. I'd recommend a case you can 379 00:21:54,830 --> 00:21:58,750 S1: go to find a. Com to find somebody in your area. 380 00:21:58,790 --> 00:22:00,350 S1: Hang on the line. We'll talk a bit more off 381 00:22:00,350 --> 00:22:10,910 S1: the air. We'll be right back. Hey, thanks for joining 382 00:22:10,910 --> 00:22:13,430 S1: us today on faith and finance. I'm Rob West. We're 383 00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:17,909 S1: taking your calls and questions today 800 525 7000. You 384 00:22:17,910 --> 00:22:21,230 S1: can call right now. Let's head back to the phones. Pennsylvania. Scott, 385 00:22:21,230 --> 00:22:22,630 S1: thanks for calling. Go right ahead. 386 00:22:23,830 --> 00:22:27,630 S7: Uh, yeah. Um, I'm a retired military guy, and I 387 00:22:27,670 --> 00:22:31,670 S7: have a a side business and it generates over my 388 00:22:31,670 --> 00:22:34,710 S7: income generates over $100,000 a year. I live off of 389 00:22:34,750 --> 00:22:38,190 S7: half of that in. Um, so I'm living pretty well. 390 00:22:38,470 --> 00:22:41,949 S7: But my question is, uh, I was possibly going to 391 00:22:41,950 --> 00:22:44,870 S7: pay off my house and possibly purchase a second house. 392 00:22:44,910 --> 00:22:48,190 S7: Is that being greedy, or is it okay to buy 393 00:22:48,190 --> 00:22:50,990 S7: a vacation home or even rent out my first home? 394 00:22:51,630 --> 00:22:54,790 S1: Yeah, well, I appreciate the question. And let me just 395 00:22:54,790 --> 00:22:57,870 S1: be clear. I mean, Scripture doesn't forbid owning more than 396 00:22:57,869 --> 00:23:01,550 S1: one home, but what it consistently addresses is what we 397 00:23:01,550 --> 00:23:03,430 S1: talk about all the time here on this program. And 398 00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:07,390 S1: that is the idea of stewardship. First Corinthians four two. Moreover, 399 00:23:07,390 --> 00:23:10,670 S1: it is required of stewards that they be found faithful. 400 00:23:10,869 --> 00:23:13,430 S1: So a second or a vacation home can be a 401 00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:18,590 S1: wise decision if it's financially sustainable and doesn't create anxiety 402 00:23:18,590 --> 00:23:22,830 S1: or debt pressure for you, and doesn't distract you from 403 00:23:22,830 --> 00:23:25,949 S1: obedience to the Lord. And even from generosity, which I 404 00:23:25,950 --> 00:23:30,160 S1: would submit is one of the primary reasons God entrust 405 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,080 S1: to us what he does in addition to enjoyment, which 406 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,480 S1: is not unbiblical. Uh, that's clearly, you know, referenced in 407 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,040 S1: numerous places in the Bible, including First Timothy. God richly 408 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,480 S1: provides us with everything for our enjoyment. So I think 409 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,800 S1: it really does stem from what is our heart's desire. 410 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:49,640 S1: We need to make sure that the things of this 411 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,840 S1: world don't compete with our affection to God, who is 412 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,160 S1: our ultimate treasure. And we need to be wise as 413 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,560 S1: stewards in managing what God has entrusted to us. So, 414 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,520 S1: you know, renting your current home and purchasing another can 415 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,560 S1: be prudent if the numbers work and you have plenty 416 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,639 S1: of margin. I think wisdom asks, Will this limit my 417 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:16,040 S1: ability to give, serve, or respond when God calls? And 418 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,280 S1: you know, the answer to that, I think can ultimately 419 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,840 S1: be a piece of maybe a big piece of you 420 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,720 S1: answering this question. But again, you know, I think at 421 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,250 S1: the same time, Jesus is reminding us that, you know, 422 00:24:29,290 --> 00:24:32,770 S1: enjoying what he's provided is certainly, you know, within his 423 00:24:32,770 --> 00:24:35,850 S1: framework of of why he entrusts to us what he does. 424 00:24:36,250 --> 00:24:38,970 S1: I think he's also reminding us clearly that we're to 425 00:24:38,970 --> 00:24:42,129 S1: store up treasures in heaven. We see that in Matthew six. So, 426 00:24:42,410 --> 00:24:46,889 S1: you know, perhaps a helpful framework is provide wisely, enjoy 427 00:24:46,930 --> 00:24:51,410 S1: gratefully and give generously. And if your plan supports all 428 00:24:51,410 --> 00:24:54,450 S1: three and you've prayed through it, you've sought some counsel. 429 00:24:54,450 --> 00:24:57,490 S1: Clearly you're doing that today. I would say move forward 430 00:24:57,490 --> 00:25:01,209 S1: in faith, trusting God as your ultimate security. Does that 431 00:25:01,210 --> 00:25:01,970 S1: make sense, though? 432 00:25:02,690 --> 00:25:05,130 S7: Oh yeah. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. I was just wondering if 433 00:25:05,130 --> 00:25:07,850 S7: there was a thin line between greed and, I mean, 434 00:25:07,890 --> 00:25:11,010 S7: I guess generosity and self-satisfaction. I guess I was defensive. 435 00:25:11,210 --> 00:25:13,570 S7: How much is too much to be generous with and 436 00:25:13,570 --> 00:25:16,490 S7: how much is too much to, I guess, be happy 437 00:25:16,490 --> 00:25:19,450 S7: with myself or to contribute to myself? 438 00:25:19,970 --> 00:25:23,210 S1: Yeah. And it would be great if God's Word said, well, 439 00:25:23,410 --> 00:25:27,980 S1: anything beyond, you know, living on 68.2% of your income 440 00:25:28,140 --> 00:25:33,900 S1: is moving from, you know, enjoyment to something that's beyond that. 441 00:25:33,980 --> 00:25:36,619 S1: It's not there. And so what do we do with that? Well, 442 00:25:36,619 --> 00:25:40,619 S1: we ask God and he will provide that wisdom. You know, 443 00:25:40,980 --> 00:25:43,260 S1: we see that clearly in James. If we lack wisdom, 444 00:25:43,260 --> 00:25:46,419 S1: we should ask God, who provides it richly to us. So, 445 00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:49,060 S1: you know, I think perhaps taking the next couple of 446 00:25:49,060 --> 00:25:51,820 S1: weeks and maybe you just start the the day on 447 00:25:51,820 --> 00:25:53,979 S1: your knees saying, Lord, what would you have me to 448 00:25:54,020 --> 00:25:57,500 S1: do with what you've entrusted to me? But I think, again, 449 00:25:57,500 --> 00:26:01,260 S1: at the end of the day, it's striking this balance 450 00:26:01,260 --> 00:26:05,780 S1: between understanding that, you know, in part, God provides to 451 00:26:05,780 --> 00:26:09,100 S1: us so that we can bless and serve others, be 452 00:26:09,100 --> 00:26:13,700 S1: participants in God's economy. Um, he also provides it to 453 00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:17,379 S1: us for our enjoyment. And so we have to in 454 00:26:17,380 --> 00:26:21,580 S1: prayer and, you know, through seeking his His Word and 455 00:26:21,580 --> 00:26:25,710 S1: meditating on Scripture, I think find that place that we 456 00:26:25,710 --> 00:26:28,710 S1: feel like is appropriate, where we can be God honoring, 457 00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:30,909 S1: where we can be wise stewards, where we can enjoy 458 00:26:30,950 --> 00:26:34,790 S1: appropriately what he's he's given us, but not allow that 459 00:26:34,790 --> 00:26:38,750 S1: to to stumble into something that either creates anxiety or 460 00:26:38,750 --> 00:26:43,270 S1: pressure or, uh, you know, limits our ability to respond 461 00:26:43,270 --> 00:26:46,310 S1: to the leading of the Lord when he prompts us 462 00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:49,270 S1: to give generously. And I think in the in the 463 00:26:49,270 --> 00:26:52,070 S1: tension of those two is a really healthy place to 464 00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:55,990 S1: be where we're just seeking God's wisdom at the end 465 00:26:55,990 --> 00:26:57,430 S1: of the day. Does that make sense, though? 466 00:26:58,070 --> 00:27:00,270 S7: Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you 467 00:27:00,270 --> 00:27:01,550 S7: very much. I appreciate that. 468 00:27:01,750 --> 00:27:04,630 S1: All right. Thanks for your call today. Call anytime. Uh, 469 00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:06,710 S1: let's go to Cleveland. Lorena. Go ahead. 470 00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:11,590 S8: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Question. Once I 471 00:27:11,630 --> 00:27:16,110 S8: pay off my credit card, um, do I just refrain 472 00:27:16,109 --> 00:27:18,790 S8: from using it and just keep it, or do I 473 00:27:18,790 --> 00:27:21,909 S8: just close it without affecting my credit score? 474 00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:26,320 S1: Yeah, yeah. Great question. Yeah. I think, you know, when 475 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:31,320 S1: we close a card, it can temporarily cause your score 476 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:37,160 S1: to drop slightly. And the reason is often either it's 477 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,159 S1: it's an older card. And so by pulling that history out, 478 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,000 S1: history is one of the five key factors that drives 479 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,720 S1: your credit score. And so by removing that from being 480 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,280 S1: an active account, in many cases you lose the history 481 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,879 S1: associated with it. And then secondly, it does have a 482 00:27:54,880 --> 00:28:01,719 S1: tendency to change, um, what's referred to as your credit utilization. 483 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,120 S1: And so your credit utilization is the total credit available 484 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,920 S1: to you versus the amount of debt you have outstanding. 485 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,080 S1: And if that goes above 30%, your credit score starts 486 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,520 S1: to come down dramatically. And so here's where that would 487 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,320 S1: play out. And this may not apply to you, but 488 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,320 S1: in some cases people are carrying balances on other cards. 489 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,160 S1: And even if this one's paid off, if you pull 490 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,480 S1: this one out of the equation and the total available 491 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,560 S1: credit is now comes down by the amount of credit 492 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,280 S1: that was available on the card you just closed. Those 493 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,360 S1: balances you're carrying are now a higher percentage of the 494 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,400 S1: total available to you. And if that trips over 30%, 495 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,280 S1: that can start to pull your score down. But at 496 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,000 S1: the end of the day, if this is just one 497 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,560 S1: card and you've got several others and you've got active 498 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,200 S1: credit and you're an on time payer and you're not 499 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,440 S1: going out and looking to qualify for a loan to 500 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,840 S1: buy a house or a car in the next, you know, 501 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,280 S1: 90 days. I would say it's probably in your best 502 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,800 S1: interest to go ahead and close it out. It's one 503 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,520 S1: less card that has the ability to be compromised. Um, 504 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,840 S1: and so by closing it, you no longer have to 505 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,480 S1: keep up with it. And any, um, erosion in your 506 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,770 S1: credit score would be temporary, and it would come right back. 507 00:29:20,810 --> 00:29:21,650 S1: Does that make sense? 508 00:29:22,610 --> 00:29:25,770 S8: Yes. But now what if I'm scared that I'm going 509 00:29:25,810 --> 00:29:29,210 S8: to get that annual fee? Do I just pay it? 510 00:29:30,090 --> 00:29:32,130 S1: Well, that would be another reason why you'd want to 511 00:29:32,170 --> 00:29:35,010 S1: close it. I mean, if there's an annual fee associated 512 00:29:35,010 --> 00:29:37,450 S1: with this card and it's not one you're using, even 513 00:29:37,450 --> 00:29:40,130 S1: if it is, I would be looking to get rid 514 00:29:40,170 --> 00:29:43,370 S1: of this card and move to a different one. So, yeah, 515 00:29:43,370 --> 00:29:47,210 S1: I think, uh, again, unless you're right on the heels 516 00:29:47,210 --> 00:29:49,730 S1: of going out and trying to qualify for a loan 517 00:29:49,730 --> 00:29:52,090 S1: and you need your credit score as high as possible, 518 00:29:52,410 --> 00:29:56,170 S1: I'd say go ahead and close this. Simplify your financial life. 519 00:29:56,290 --> 00:29:58,650 S1: And if this is a card that, uh, has some 520 00:29:58,650 --> 00:30:01,170 S1: sort of annual fee on it, I would absolutely get 521 00:30:01,170 --> 00:30:04,730 S1: rid of it because that's just a fee you're paying unnecessarily. 522 00:30:05,770 --> 00:30:07,290 S8: Okay. Thank you so much. 523 00:30:07,330 --> 00:30:08,210 S7: Appreciate it. 524 00:30:08,410 --> 00:30:11,330 S1: Absolutely. Thanks for your call, Lorena. Thanks for being on 525 00:30:11,330 --> 00:30:13,969 S1: the program today. Well, folks, uh, we've still got, uh, 526 00:30:13,970 --> 00:30:16,770 S1: more time for you. We've got one final segment coming up. 527 00:30:16,770 --> 00:30:19,220 S1: When we come back, we'll head down to Tampa and 528 00:30:19,220 --> 00:30:22,020 S1: talk to Andy. Then we'll head out to Lake George, 529 00:30:22,020 --> 00:30:25,020 S1: New York and talk to Laurie. Perhaps your question as well. 530 00:30:25,060 --> 00:30:27,460 S1: We've got room for maybe 1 to 2 more in 531 00:30:27,460 --> 00:30:30,220 S1: addition to those holding. So get get on your phone 532 00:30:30,220 --> 00:30:35,620 S1: right now and call 800 525 7000. Again that's 800 533 00:30:35,660 --> 00:30:39,860 S1: 525 7000. This is faith and finance live. I'm Rob 534 00:30:39,860 --> 00:30:43,180 S1: West helping you live as a wise and faithful stewards 535 00:30:43,180 --> 00:30:46,219 S1: of God's resources. That's why we gather together each day 536 00:30:46,380 --> 00:30:49,420 S1: on this program. We'll do more of that just around 537 00:30:49,420 --> 00:30:51,940 S1: the corner when we return from this break. Don't go anywhere. 538 00:31:09,940 --> 00:31:12,140 S1: Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live. 539 00:31:12,140 --> 00:31:15,740 S1: I'm Rob West. Let's head down to Tampa, Florida. Andy 540 00:31:15,780 --> 00:31:16,340 S1: go ahead. 541 00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:18,910 S9: Hi, Rob. How are you? 542 00:31:19,310 --> 00:31:20,910 S1: I'm doing great. Appreciate your call. 543 00:31:21,630 --> 00:31:25,390 S9: Good, good. Uh, my question is, I have a line 544 00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:31,750 S9: of credit of $50,000. That's five zero at 12%, which 545 00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:35,870 S9: I got, like about two years ago. So my question is, 546 00:31:36,350 --> 00:31:39,710 S9: should I get a different line of credit with a 547 00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:43,070 S9: lower interest rate and pay off this current one, or 548 00:31:43,550 --> 00:31:45,910 S9: is it best to get an equity loan on the 549 00:31:45,910 --> 00:31:48,790 S9: property to get rid of the line of credit? 550 00:31:49,670 --> 00:31:53,270 S1: Yeah. So what property is this collateralized by? 551 00:31:55,510 --> 00:31:58,150 S9: Uh, the current one. The current line of credit. 552 00:31:58,310 --> 00:32:01,709 S1: Yeah. The 50,000 at 12%. Is, is that, uh, a 553 00:32:01,750 --> 00:32:04,270 S1: line of credit against a property right now? 554 00:32:05,230 --> 00:32:08,150 S9: It is, it is, it's against it's against the current property. 555 00:32:08,190 --> 00:32:09,990 S9: My principal residence. 556 00:32:10,350 --> 00:32:13,470 S1: So your principal residence. And why is that interest rate 557 00:32:13,470 --> 00:32:14,150 S1: so high? 558 00:32:15,670 --> 00:32:19,440 S9: Uh, I don't know. I got, I got that two, uh, 559 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,200 S9: two years ago. And that was what they, uh, what 560 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:23,760 S9: they quoted me at 12%. 561 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,280 S1: Wow. Yeah. Okay. What is your credit score today? Do 562 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:27,760 S1: you know? 563 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,960 S9: I do not know that, but, um, about. It's it's 564 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,800 S9: pretty good. I mean, I was able to get a 2.5, um, 565 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,920 S9: you know, loan on my on my, on my principal 566 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,760 S9: property about five years ago. And it's only gotten better. 567 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,120 S1: Okay. Yeah. And is this. It's a home equity loan 568 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:48,320 S1: or a line of credit? 569 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,640 S9: It's a line of credit. What I have right now. 570 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,720 S1: Okay. And, uh, do you. What? The current balance is 50,000. 571 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:56,520 S1: Is that right? 572 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,040 S9: That's correct. Yes, sir. 573 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,160 S1: Okay. Yeah. I mean, I would definitely, uh, look to 574 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,760 S1: replace that. I mean, you should be able to do 575 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,080 S1: quite a bit better than that, I would say. I mean, 576 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,520 S1: home equity lines of credit are variable, but you should 577 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:16,530 S1: be somewhere between 7 and 9% on the high end, 578 00:33:16,970 --> 00:33:21,490 S1: 12 is very high. Um, so I would be shopping 579 00:33:21,490 --> 00:33:25,090 S1: around just to see about replacing that. Uh, apart from 580 00:33:25,090 --> 00:33:27,930 S1: just refinancing that, paying it off with a new line 581 00:33:27,970 --> 00:33:31,170 S1: of credit. Um, do you have a first mortgage on 582 00:33:31,170 --> 00:33:32,290 S1: the property as well? 583 00:33:32,850 --> 00:33:33,850 S9: I do, yes, sir. 584 00:33:34,330 --> 00:33:36,729 S1: Okay. And you said that one's a two and a half. 585 00:33:37,610 --> 00:33:38,770 S9: A two and a half. Yes. 586 00:33:39,170 --> 00:33:41,810 S1: Okay. And what is the home worth, do you think? 587 00:33:42,930 --> 00:33:45,330 S9: About 460 to 470. 588 00:33:45,690 --> 00:33:47,450 S1: All right. What do you owe on the first. 589 00:33:48,290 --> 00:33:49,210 S9: 201. 590 00:33:49,610 --> 00:33:52,810 S1: Okay. Yeah. So you got plenty of equity in the property. 591 00:33:52,810 --> 00:33:55,690 S1: And with a good credit score, there's no reason for 592 00:33:55,690 --> 00:33:58,450 S1: you to be up in this, uh, in this range 593 00:33:58,450 --> 00:34:02,890 S1: at that astronomically high rate. What? What else were you considering? 594 00:34:02,890 --> 00:34:05,690 S1: I know you said I could refinance it with a 595 00:34:05,690 --> 00:34:08,450 S1: new home equity line of credit on the same principal 596 00:34:08,450 --> 00:34:10,810 S1: residence where you're considering an alternative. 597 00:34:12,210 --> 00:34:15,089 S9: Uh, no, I was just do I? You know, it 598 00:34:15,090 --> 00:34:17,330 S9: was just, you know, do I get the a different 599 00:34:17,330 --> 00:34:20,009 S9: line of credit to pay off this current one at 600 00:34:20,010 --> 00:34:22,569 S9: a lower rate or just do the the equity? I 601 00:34:22,570 --> 00:34:24,010 S9: didn't have anything else in mind. 602 00:34:24,450 --> 00:34:28,169 S1: Yeah, yeah. Um, well, basically what you'd be doing is, 603 00:34:28,210 --> 00:34:31,649 S1: is refinancing this. And by in doing so, you'd be 604 00:34:31,650 --> 00:34:34,850 S1: paying off the current line of credit, closing it and 605 00:34:34,850 --> 00:34:37,810 S1: then putting a new line of credit in place. You 606 00:34:37,810 --> 00:34:40,530 S1: obviously don't want to touch that first mortgage just because 607 00:34:40,530 --> 00:34:44,770 S1: that rate is so phenomenal. Uh, 2.5%. We're probably not 608 00:34:44,770 --> 00:34:47,569 S1: going to see that anytime soon. So, um, you know, 609 00:34:47,610 --> 00:34:50,410 S1: I think you're on the right track here. And given 610 00:34:50,410 --> 00:34:53,690 S1: the equity that you've got in the property, um, you know, 611 00:34:53,730 --> 00:34:57,690 S1: you you may want to look and see if, you know, 612 00:34:57,770 --> 00:35:02,770 S1: the current lender would be willing to kind of rightsize, uh, this, uh, 613 00:35:02,770 --> 00:35:05,890 S1: this rate. And if so, that could save you some 614 00:35:05,890 --> 00:35:09,650 S1: money just in terms of the closing costs related to that. 615 00:35:09,650 --> 00:35:12,740 S1: But if not, um, there are plenty of home equity 616 00:35:12,739 --> 00:35:15,379 S1: lines of credit out there right now that not only 617 00:35:15,380 --> 00:35:19,340 S1: have really compelling rates, but are offering fee free lines 618 00:35:19,340 --> 00:35:21,580 S1: of credit, meaning, you know, you may not have to 619 00:35:21,580 --> 00:35:24,779 S1: pay for the appraisal and you certainly might be able 620 00:35:24,780 --> 00:35:28,739 S1: to avoid, um, you know, the any origination costs or 621 00:35:28,739 --> 00:35:31,740 S1: something like that. So, you know, if you could drop 622 00:35:31,739 --> 00:35:35,980 S1: that by 4%, that would save you about $2,000 a 623 00:35:35,980 --> 00:35:39,620 S1: year in interest. And even if you paid, let's say, 624 00:35:39,620 --> 00:35:43,700 S1: $1,500 in closing costs, you'd break even in less than 625 00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:46,940 S1: a year. So I would, uh, I would call around 626 00:35:46,940 --> 00:35:49,299 S1: to the local credit unions in your area. You could 627 00:35:49,300 --> 00:35:51,700 S1: look at some of the online banks. See if you 628 00:35:51,739 --> 00:35:54,740 S1: can find someone that offers that a no closing cost 629 00:35:54,739 --> 00:35:57,500 S1: home equity loan. And if you can get a rate, 630 00:35:57,540 --> 00:36:01,540 S1: you know, under 9% in the eights, obviously seven would 631 00:36:01,580 --> 00:36:04,180 S1: the sevens would be even better, I'd say. I'd move 632 00:36:04,180 --> 00:36:05,420 S1: forward with that approach. 633 00:36:06,140 --> 00:36:08,700 S9: All right. That sounds great. Thank you very much, Rob 634 00:36:08,739 --> 00:36:09,620 S9: I appreciate it. 635 00:36:09,940 --> 00:36:12,990 S1: Absolutely. Call anytime. Thanks for being on the program, Andy. 636 00:36:13,030 --> 00:36:16,430 S1: Let's head to Lake George, New York. Lori. Go ahead. 637 00:36:17,590 --> 00:36:21,270 S10: Hi, Rob, thanks so much. I'm calling on behalf of 638 00:36:21,270 --> 00:36:23,830 S10: my daughter and son in law. They were asking me 639 00:36:23,830 --> 00:36:25,950 S10: for advice and I said, well, I know a better 640 00:36:25,950 --> 00:36:26,910 S10: person to ask. 641 00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:27,630 S1: So. 642 00:36:29,270 --> 00:36:32,629 S10: Um, they have a home which they have owned for 643 00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:37,670 S10: three years. They bought it at 250,000. The mortgage is 644 00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:41,230 S10: down to 65,000. They've just paid a big chunk a 645 00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:46,230 S10: couple weeks ago. And, um, this past week, they've had 646 00:36:46,230 --> 00:36:50,190 S10: an opportunity to buy an investment property in a nice 647 00:36:50,190 --> 00:36:56,150 S10: vacation area. They're wondering if a cash out refinance or 648 00:36:56,190 --> 00:36:58,469 S10: a HELOC or a home equity loan would be their 649 00:36:58,469 --> 00:37:03,390 S10: best bet. Yeah. The house the house that they're looking 650 00:37:03,390 --> 00:37:08,430 S10: at is is a fixer upper, which, um, they're okay to, to, uh, 651 00:37:08,430 --> 00:37:13,240 S10: to work on. It's at 180,000, which is a pretty 652 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,440 S10: good price for three and a half acres. And the 653 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,960 S10: structure is in a place where it could be fixed 654 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,640 S10: up and rented for 5 or 6 years, and then 655 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,279 S10: eventually they want to build on that piece of property 656 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:32,560 S10: and sell their current home. So they've been given a 6% 657 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,000 S10: interest rate. As for a cash out refinance from the 658 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,160 S10: local bank, but they just wondered if there were other 659 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:40,719 S10: options they should look into. 660 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,880 S1: Yeah, yeah. Got it. Yeah. I mean, you know, the 661 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,960 S1: cash out refinance may not be ideal because they'd be 662 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,520 S1: replacing a small, likely low rate mortgage. I don't know, 663 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,960 S1: did you mention what the current rate is on that 664 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,160 S1: $65,000 that remains. 665 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,680 S10: Yeah. They're up a little bit higher than the 6% 666 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,800 S10: they were offered. I think they're at six and a 667 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,160 S10: half close to seven for the current mortgage payment. 668 00:38:07,969 --> 00:38:11,690 S1: Okay, so they're at between 6 and 7% on the 669 00:38:11,690 --> 00:38:14,850 S1: current mortgage, but it's down to 65. And you said 670 00:38:14,850 --> 00:38:18,609 S1: they had an offer for the cash out refinance. What 671 00:38:18,610 --> 00:38:19,529 S1: was that rate? 672 00:38:20,410 --> 00:38:24,370 S10: The rate was 6% at the local bank okay. 673 00:38:24,650 --> 00:38:27,170 S1: Which is very attractive right now. I mean, that's that's 674 00:38:27,170 --> 00:38:30,730 S1: lower than the national average for sure. And so they 675 00:38:30,730 --> 00:38:35,370 S1: would replace that 65,000. And then how much additional would 676 00:38:35,370 --> 00:38:36,850 S1: they have to pull against that. 677 00:38:37,690 --> 00:38:40,810 S10: They'd have to pull 180 out. So the total would 678 00:38:40,810 --> 00:38:42,290 S10: be 245. 679 00:38:42,690 --> 00:38:45,130 S1: Okay. And what did you say the property is worth? 680 00:38:46,850 --> 00:38:51,290 S10: Um, their current home is worth 325. The house that 681 00:38:51,290 --> 00:38:55,330 S10: they're looking to buy, um, is not worth more than 682 00:38:55,330 --> 00:38:59,410 S10: the 180 at the moment, but the potential is there for, 683 00:38:59,770 --> 00:39:00,930 S10: you know, to be fixed. 684 00:39:01,570 --> 00:39:04,290 S1: Okay. So the good news is they'd have still quite 685 00:39:04,290 --> 00:39:07,580 S1: a bit of equity. And that's a fairly attractive rate. 686 00:39:07,580 --> 00:39:10,380 S1: And it's more than just a, you know, a property 687 00:39:10,380 --> 00:39:12,140 S1: that they're going to try to buy and fix it up, 688 00:39:12,180 --> 00:39:15,459 S1: fix up and flip. I mean, to your point, they eventually, 689 00:39:15,500 --> 00:39:17,140 S1: you know, want to be long term owners of this 690 00:39:17,140 --> 00:39:20,060 S1: property and build there, which is great. Um, I think 691 00:39:20,060 --> 00:39:22,780 S1: the big question is, you know, this is probably the 692 00:39:22,900 --> 00:39:26,620 S1: the least expensive source of funds that they would be 693 00:39:26,660 --> 00:39:29,180 S1: able to come up with. Uh, they just need to 694 00:39:29,219 --> 00:39:32,260 S1: know that, you know, they're encumbering their what is today 695 00:39:32,260 --> 00:39:36,060 S1: their primary residence. And so there's always some risk associated 696 00:39:36,060 --> 00:39:40,340 S1: with that. They've obviously demonstrated themselves to be very, you know, 697 00:39:40,380 --> 00:39:43,660 S1: wise stewards of the resources God has given them, as 698 00:39:43,660 --> 00:39:47,020 S1: evidenced by them being able to pay down this home 699 00:39:47,020 --> 00:39:50,420 S1: that they're currently living in so aggressively. And so, I 700 00:39:50,420 --> 00:39:54,580 S1: would say, just given their demonstration of discipline, money management, 701 00:39:54,580 --> 00:39:56,620 S1: on top of the fact that, you know, that's a 702 00:39:56,620 --> 00:39:59,100 S1: very attractive rate they're being offered. I would want to 703 00:39:59,140 --> 00:40:01,420 S1: know kind of what are the closing costs and make 704 00:40:01,460 --> 00:40:04,580 S1: sure that there's not a lot of origination costs where 705 00:40:04,580 --> 00:40:07,500 S1: they're kind of buying that rate down, but they're going 706 00:40:07,540 --> 00:40:10,660 S1: to have to either come out of pocket with, you know, 707 00:40:10,700 --> 00:40:13,900 S1: a significant amount of closing or they're adding to the 708 00:40:13,900 --> 00:40:17,379 S1: mortgage by doing that. But assuming there's not anything going 709 00:40:17,380 --> 00:40:20,060 S1: on like that and this is just a really competitive rate, 710 00:40:20,300 --> 00:40:22,459 S1: I think given the equity that they would still have 711 00:40:22,460 --> 00:40:25,620 S1: in their long term plan about this property. Plus it 712 00:40:25,620 --> 00:40:27,500 S1: sounds like they're pretty handy and they're going to do 713 00:40:27,500 --> 00:40:29,540 S1: a lot of this work themselves. Is that right? 714 00:40:30,380 --> 00:40:34,660 S10: That's right. Yeah. The place they live in now totally redone. Yeah. 715 00:40:34,739 --> 00:40:38,380 S10: And and it is a no fee, no fee refinance 716 00:40:38,380 --> 00:40:41,900 S10: for them. Except that it is it is a, um, 717 00:40:41,940 --> 00:40:47,779 S10: an arm with a seven year, um, fixed amount on it. 718 00:40:47,780 --> 00:40:49,899 S10: So it won't it won't go up, but they pay 719 00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:52,940 S10: it down, you know, if it has a possibility to 720 00:40:52,940 --> 00:40:54,460 S10: go down, they could go down. 721 00:40:54,739 --> 00:40:58,219 S1: Sure. And is there a plan to be relocated to 722 00:40:58,260 --> 00:41:00,260 S1: this new property within seven years? 723 00:41:01,140 --> 00:41:04,510 S10: I think between 5 and 7 years. Is their hope? 724 00:41:04,830 --> 00:41:08,189 S1: Okay. So it really mitigates that risk because if it's 725 00:41:08,190 --> 00:41:11,430 S1: fixed for seven before it starts to adjust annually with 726 00:41:11,430 --> 00:41:15,110 S1: A71 arm, uh, you know, they should be out of there. 727 00:41:15,150 --> 00:41:17,590 S1: Would have sold this property and paid off the loan, 728 00:41:17,710 --> 00:41:19,830 S1: you know, at that point and still have money to 729 00:41:19,870 --> 00:41:22,990 S1: show for it. So I think the only remaining question 730 00:41:22,989 --> 00:41:27,950 S1: is just, you know, are they able, uh, to to 731 00:41:27,989 --> 00:41:31,350 S1: cover the new mortgage payment and not put themselves in 732 00:41:31,350 --> 00:41:35,190 S1: a position where they're really squeezed financially? Um, do you 733 00:41:35,190 --> 00:41:37,870 S1: feel like that? You know, this mortgage payment would be 734 00:41:37,870 --> 00:41:42,910 S1: somewhere around 25% or less of their take home pay. 735 00:41:42,950 --> 00:41:44,310 S1: Do you have do you have any idea? 736 00:41:45,030 --> 00:41:47,590 S10: Yeah, I think it is. It's actually not going to 737 00:41:47,590 --> 00:41:51,150 S10: be much more than, if any more than what they've 738 00:41:51,150 --> 00:41:55,230 S10: been currently paying, because now they've put such a big 739 00:41:55,230 --> 00:41:57,630 S10: chunk on the principal. 740 00:41:57,989 --> 00:42:00,910 S1: Yeah, that makes sense. So their mortgage payment is still 741 00:42:00,910 --> 00:42:04,359 S1: amortized based on the original amount they borrowed, even though 742 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,800 S1: they paid it down so significantly. So. Yeah, I like 743 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:09,480 S1: this a lot. I mean, I think this is a 744 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,440 S1: great plan. It sounds like they're really thoughtful and wise 745 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,239 S1: about what they're doing here, and I don't see any 746 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:17,240 S1: downside to it. 747 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,840 S10: Oh, that sounds great. Okay. Thank you so much. We 748 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,279 S10: appreciate your wisdom. 749 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,640 S1: Absolutely, Lori. Thanks for listening and calling in today. I 750 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:30,000 S1: appreciate you and call anytime. Michelle in Chicago I apologize 751 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,440 S1: we didn't get to you today. Let's see if we 752 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,359 S1: can get scheduled, uh, to be first up tomorrow. I'd 753 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,440 S1: love to tackle your question about, uh, the annuity that 754 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,279 S1: you've purchased recently. And, um, we'll hope we can do 755 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,840 S1: that real soon. Folks. Thanks for being with us today. 756 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,440 S1: What a treat. Uh, to, uh, be able to serve 757 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,400 S1: you and encourage you and help you live as a 758 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,880 S1: faithful steward. Faith and finance lives a partnership between Faith 759 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:55,680 S1: fi and Moody Radio. Big thanks to my team Taylor, Tahera, Ananda, Dan, 760 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,080 S1: and everybody here at Faith fi. We'll see you tomorrow. 761 00:42:58,080 --> 00:42:58,520 S1: Bye bye.