S1: What would you say if someone outside your family asked
S1: if they could move in with you? Stay at your house,
S1: eat meals with you? Observe how you interact with your
S1: spouse and your children, all to let them see what
S1: a healthy family looks like. They want to know how
S1: it's done. Well, what would you say? Would you say
S1: your family's too dysfunctional to take on a border? Your
S1: family is not healthy enough to face that kind of scrutiny.
S1: It's a little daunting to know there's somebody who wants
S1: to emulate how you live. But what if they see conflict?
S1: What if you have a bad day today? You're going
S1: to hear from a man who had that exact scenario.
S1: Someone asked him if he could move in with his family,
S1: and his wife and two children. Thought it was a
S1: good idea. What happened?
S2: Oh, don't you dare touch that dial, friend. This is
S2: building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, who is the New
S2: York Times best selling author of the Five Love Languages. Today,
S2: we're going to highlight his book Five traits of a
S2: Healthy Family. Steps you can take to grow closer, communicate better,
S2: and change the world together. Could that be true? You're
S2: going to find out more today on building relationships and
S2: go to the website. Building relationships.us. I have to pause
S2: here at the beginning of the program. Look at the calendar. Gary.
S2: Happy Veterans Day to you. I know you have a
S2: heart for military families around the world, right?
S3: Well, I do. Chris, you know, my dad served in
S3: the Second World War going way back. And I will
S3: never forget receiving letters. I was probably 5 or 6
S3: years old at that time. And he would write a
S3: letter now and then to my mom, and mom would
S3: read them to me and to my sister. At the
S3: end of every letter, my dad would say, now give
S3: your mother a big hug for me and obey her. So,
S3: you know, I've spoken at many, many bases, military bases
S3: all over the world and really always enjoy speaking there
S3: because I greatly admire those who give years of their
S3: life in the military, and especially also now veterans who
S3: invested part of their lives in serving our country. So
S3: I'm hoping that all across the country, veterans will feel
S3: appreciated for what they invested in all of our lives.
S3: You know, we sometimes just take them for granted, but
S3: we should never take them for granted. Yes.
S2: Well, and service is something we're going to talk about
S2: here in just a little bit. But but I also
S2: have to highlight the military family members. There are wives
S2: and husbands as well now, but mainly wives and then
S2: children of military members and also parents who are making
S2: these huge sacrifices. It's a big disruption to their lives
S2: as well. And you talk about that when your dad
S2: said that he wrote that letter and your dad said,
S2: give her a hug. Was his love language, physical touch,
S2: do you think?
S3: Well, I didn't know anything about love languages at that point,
S3: but looking back on it, I think it probably was. Yes. Yeah.
S2: Well, I just wanted to pause here at the beginning
S2: of the program and say, Happy Veterans Day and all that.
S2: That means to you who are listening. God bless you, friend.
S2: Thank you. Now let me turn to the conversation today.
S2: You have been doing radio and TV and zoom interviews
S2: for decades and decades. You don't have any idea how
S2: many you've done through the years, do you?
S3: Not a clue, Chris. I'm thinking hundreds and hundreds, but
S3: I don't know. I've never tried to keep a record
S3: of how many interviews I've done.
S2: This has been one of the ways that people have
S2: found out about your ministry, about your counseling, about your
S2: ideas as a pastor, and then the five love languages.
S2: It kind of exploded when that book came out, right?
S3: It did, Chris, and continues to explode every year. It
S3: sells more than the year before. It's been going on
S3: for 30 years. Over 30 years. I never, ever anticipated
S3: that that book would have such an impact and really
S3: surprised that it's gone to other languages. It's published now
S3: in over 60 languages around the world, which it's just
S3: humbles me to think that this concept is helping marriages
S3: all over the world.
S2: Yeah, well, I had the opportunity to have Gary on
S2: my program on Moody Radio back in early July. We
S2: talked about the book that is featured today. We talked
S2: about his story, and my guess is there's somebody listening
S2: today who did not hear that and the interaction between
S2: you and the callers, Gary. But they're going to hear
S2: it today. How do you feel about that?
S3: Well, I'm excited about it, Chris. I think any time
S3: we can use something we've done in the past to
S3: bring it up to the present, that's going to be
S3: helpful to people again.
S2: Amen, Amen. So the scenario that Andrea painted at the
S2: beginning of the program actually happened to you. Is that true?
S3: It's true. Chris. It was years ago. I was leading
S3: a college ministry in our church, and there was a
S3: young graduate of the University of North Carolina who said
S3: to me at the end of the summer, he had
S3: spent time in the summer working with our summer group,
S3: and he had just graduated. And he said to me,
S3: you know, I have never seen a healthy family. My
S3: family was very dysfunctional. And I wonder, would you be
S3: open to my moving in with you and Carolyn and
S3: your children and just live with you for a year
S3: just so I can see what a healthy family is?
S3: And I said what any wise man would say. Well,
S3: let me talk to Carolyn about that. He had a
S3: job in town. He was working as a schoolteacher, teaching
S3: school in town. I talked to Carolyn and the kids,
S3: and they both all of them thought that's a good idea.
S3: We didn't have an extra room. You know, we had
S3: two kids and we had a three bedroom house and
S3: two bathrooms. And I said, well, where is he going
S3: to live? And Carolyn said, well, you know, the basement
S3: is just empty sitting down there. We could just put
S3: up a wall on the corner and we could put
S3: a bed in there. And I said, well, yeah, okay.
S3: So John moved in with us and observed everything. I mean,
S3: he was there, you know, he was there in the
S3: mornings eating breakfast with us. And when we had devotions
S3: with the kids, he was there at night when we
S3: had devotions, was a family. And, and he he just
S3: saw the whole thing. Fortunately, you know, apparently we were
S3: sane enough that he gained a lot from it. That
S3: would be my.
S2: Question is like, what? What is he going to see
S2: that I don't want him to see, you know, and
S2: you didn't have a dog so he couldn't kick the dog, right?
S3: Couldn't kick the dog. That's right. Yeah. He says it
S3: was one of the most meaningful things in his life
S3: because he said, really? I had no idea. I hate
S3: to think what my life would have been like if
S3: I had not been able to observe what a healthy
S3: family looks like. And of course, Chris, you know, Carol
S3: and I had a lot of problems in the early
S3: days of our marriage. So I was just glad that
S3: by this time, you know, we had we had kind
S3: of work things out. And we were we were moving
S3: in a positive way because, listen, we're always growing. You know,
S3: none of us are perfect, but we're always growing, are
S3: regressing one way or the other. So yeah, but it
S3: was quite an experience. But our kids, our kids loved it.
S3: You know, he became their big brother and he loved,
S3: you know, interfacing with our kids. So it was a
S3: healthy thing for all of us.
S2: Was there a point, you know, when you when you
S2: have like cameras that come into your home, you're always
S2: you feel like a sense that I'm being watched. Was
S2: there a time when you just forgot that he's there
S2: observing you and and you got past that and he's
S2: just part of the family?
S3: Yeah, I think so, Chris. I think it happened pretty soon, really.
S3: You know, I kind of my background, you know, is
S3: cultural anthropology, where an anthropologist moves into a tribal group
S3: and just starts living with them, you know, and everybody's asking,
S3: who is this guy and what is he here for,
S3: or what is going on? You know, da da da
S3: da da. So it kind of brought that to my mind,
S3: that image to my mind. You know, he's an anthropologist
S3: moving in to observe our culture. But really, you know,
S3: after a few weeks, we got the the kinks worked
S3: out on which bathroom everybody's going to use and how
S3: that's going to work out. It was really a pretty
S3: pleasant experience.
S2: Did he ever load the dishwasher wrong?
S3: Oh, yeah. He disgusted that we discussed that. He said,
S3: you know, he said Carolyn would sometimes ask if she
S3: could just load the dishwasher. She said, because I said
S3: it took me 20 minutes what she could do in
S3: five minutes because I was so particular, you know. So
S3: we ran into this normal things which you run into
S3: that people have different personalities and they do things in
S3: a different way.
S2: What was the biggest takeaway then for him? Was it
S2: in the area of communication? Was it a spiritual thing?
S2: What did he say?
S3: Yeah, I think it was kind of both of those, Chris,
S3: because let's face it, you know, our relationship with God
S3: is going to impact everything else. And, you know, he
S3: saw us having devotions with the kids at breakfast. It
S3: was just brief, but it was just a word of scripture,
S3: you know, and thinking about the day. And then he
S3: saw us at night, you know, with the kids. We
S3: read a Bible story and, and then go to their
S3: beds individually beside of them and pray. So, you know,
S3: that whole spiritual dimension. But I think also it was
S3: communication because I think in his the house he grew
S3: up in, you know, his dad was always yelling and
S3: screaming at his mother, and then she would withdraw. And,
S3: you know, all kinds of things went on there. And
S3: to see us carrying on conversations, you know, like after
S3: the dinner meal every day, that was a part of
S3: the meal. As we talk about how our day went,
S3: what did we discover? What was high? What was the low,
S3: you know, and just to see a family talking about
S3: daily life and processing. Together, I think was a very
S3: helpful thing for him.
S2: And I think that really hits the nerve of what
S2: you want to do. There's probably somebody listening today who says,
S2: I'd take that, you know, I'd move in with the
S2: Chapmans and their family. You know, a few years ago
S2: when your kids were still at home, because I didn't
S2: grow up in a functional family, there was a lot
S2: of dysfunction there, or dad was out of the picture
S2: or whatever. And so I didn't get that model. That's
S2: what you've done with this book, five traits of a
S2: Healthy Family. The subtitle is Steps You can Take to
S2: grow closer, communicate better, and change the world together. And
S2: by change the world, you're not over the top with
S2: that because you really believe that you go from the
S2: micro to the macro. You change the dynamic of your
S2: family and your relationships, and that filters out into everybody else,
S2: doesn't it?
S3: Yeah, absolutely. Chris, you know, I think the family is
S3: the basic unit of culture. You know, I mentioned my
S3: undergrad and master's degree was in cultural anthropology. I don't
S3: care what the culture's like. The family unit is the
S3: fundamental unit of culture. And if we can have healthy families,
S3: it spills over into the broader culture. And I think
S3: that's part of the things that we're facing in our
S3: country today. With so much dysfunction in the families, it
S3: just spills over into the culture. And let's face it,
S3: we were pretty dysfunctional in certain areas of our culture today.
S3: So yeah, I think and what motivated me, Chris, is
S3: I know that there's many, many people out there who
S3: grew up in dysfunctional families and they really don't have
S3: a concept of what, what's a healthy family supposed to
S3: look like. And so in this book, I'm really trying
S3: to be practical and just kind of spell it out
S3: what it looks like. And I think if we can,
S3: if we can have a rebirth of of family life,
S3: it can affect the whole culture.
S1: You're listening to Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author
S1: of the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. Well,
S1: back in July, Gary appeared on a program called Chris
S1: Fabry Live, and he talked about a new book, Five
S1: Traits of a Healthy Family Steps You Can Take to
S1: grow closer, communicate better, and Change the World together. You
S1: can find out more about it at building relationships.us.
S2: You know, I've heard Dr. Chapman talk about a lot
S2: of things through the years, and I felt like Gary
S2: can't surprise me with anything he says. But as I
S2: looked over this book, I was surprised at where he starts.
S2: He says the most important thing that a healthy family
S2: does is wait for it. Families serve. So let's talk
S2: about that. Why did you start there?
S3: I think because, Chris, an attitude of service is fundamental
S3: to everything else in a family life. You know, if
S3: we have an attitude that you know, in this marriage,
S3: you know, you're supposed to make me happy. That's the
S3: main thing. You're making me happy. That's selfishness. You know,
S3: genuine love is serving other people. Peter said about Jesus,
S3: he went about doing good. Jesus said about himself, The
S3: Son of Man did not come to be served. He
S3: came to serve. And then, of course, to give his
S3: life a ransom for others. So I think, you know,
S3: in Ephesians five, for example, when he discusses some things
S3: about family life, he starts off by saying, you know,
S3: submit to one another, you know, and that submit means
S3: I'm here to do what I can to help you.
S3: Just let me know what would enrich your life. And
S3: so I think when a person really is walking with God,
S3: they realize Christ is the model and we're here to
S3: serve others. And that should start in the family. If
S3: I have an attitude of honey, how can I enrich
S3: your life? How can I make your life easier? How
S3: can I help you become the person you want to become?
S3: And she has that attitude toward me. Wow. That's going
S3: to be a good marriage. And then if we have children,
S3: we have that attitude toward the children. And we teach
S3: the children how to serve each other and ultimately, how
S3: to serve in the mom and dad. And then we
S3: take it beyond the family and take the kids out
S3: with us, serving in the community, doing things to help
S3: other people. If children grow up with an attitude of service,
S3: you've set them up for a great life because nothing
S3: is more important in life than taking what God has
S3: given you and using it to enrich the lives of
S3: other people.
S2: And isn't that, you know, I keep going back to
S2: the the upper room and in Jesus pouring into the
S2: lives of the broader community around there in the miracles,
S2: but especially these 12 guys. And right there at the end,
S2: he's right at the very moment where he's going to
S2: pour himself out for all humanity. You know, those who
S2: respond and give his give himself and they're fighting. They're
S2: dysfunctional followers. They are fighting about who's going to be
S2: the greatest in the kingdom. And he has to bring
S2: it back again to that service and the washing of feet.
S2: He was that was what he was all about.
S3: Yeah, absolutely. Chris. And looking back on my own life,
S3: it's this reality that changed my marriage in the first place.
S3: Because when I got married, I was self-centered, you know?
S3: I mean, I was happy, I was in love with her.
S3: She was going to make me happy forever. I could
S3: hardly wait to get married. And, you know, after a while,
S3: she wasn't doing what I wish she would be doing.
S3: And we argued. We didn't know how to solve conflict,
S3: so we argued with each other and and then we
S3: lost the euphoric feelings. We had negative feelings toward each other.
S3: And and I was in seminary two weeks after we
S3: got married. I was in seminary studying to be a
S3: pastor and my marriage was in shambles. And I was just,
S3: you know, kind of mad at God for getting me
S3: into this. And when I finally just said to God,
S3: I don't know what else to do. Chris, what came
S3: to my mind was exactly what you described Jesus on
S3: his knees, washing the feet of his disciples. And I
S3: really heard God say to me in my heart, you know,
S3: that's the problem in your marriage. You do not have
S3: the attitude of Christ. And Chris, it hit me like
S3: a ton of bricks, you know, I knew it was
S3: not my attitude because my attitude was, you know, if
S3: you make me happy, I'll make you happy. You know,
S3: you do what I say. We'll have a good marriage,
S3: you know, and I just I confessed him and I wept,
S3: and I confessed to God that I had I had
S3: the wrong attitude and just ask him to give me
S3: the attitude of Christ toward her. And Chris, you know,
S3: and God changed my heart and gave me that attitude.
S3: Three questions made it practical for me. One was, honey,
S3: what can I do to help you? And the second
S3: question was, how can I make your life easier? And
S3: the third one was, how can I be a better husband?
S3: And when I was willing to ask those questions, she
S3: was willing to tell me, you know, and and I
S3: began to do those things. And, Chris, I think it
S3: was probably three months before she warmed up to all
S3: of that, and she started asking me those three questions.
S3: But when they have an attitude of service, you know,
S3: you're going to have a good marriage and you're likely
S3: going to be good parents. So I think it all
S3: starts there. It's kind of fundamental.
S4: You know.
S2: The other thing that happened with you and Carolyn was
S2: you started to see how different you were. And I
S2: don't know if God pulls blinders over us or we
S2: just have them. We don't see that. But you, you know,
S2: you thought you'd go to bed together at 10:00, 1030.
S2: You'd read, you fall asleep. And she wasn't having it,
S2: you know, she was a she's a night owl. You're
S2: the morning person. And and that resentment came in there that,
S2: you know, you're not feeling fitting the bill, you know,
S2: and that that was hard to get over.
S3: Absolutely crazy. Not only the evening but the morning, you know,
S3: because I envisioned that we'd have breakfast together every morning
S3: and then have devotions together every morning. And then after
S3: we got married, I mean, she would get up, but
S3: she didn't wake up, you know, until 10:00, you know?
S3: So this ain't gonna work. So that kind of went
S3: out the window, you know? So all of my visions
S3: of how wonderful it was going to be turned out
S3: to be not so wonderful. And I realize now, having
S3: counseled people for 40 years, I wasn't the only one
S3: that went through that. You know, many couples go through
S3: you kind of disillusioned with the way what you intended
S3: or you thought it was going to be like, and
S3: it's not like that. And so we have to start
S3: to rethink how do we have a good marriage. And
S3: I think it begins with the heart. And when we
S3: have a heart and we have an attitude of service
S3: and love like Jesus, and he can give it to
S3: us if we're open our hearts to us, he wants
S3: to change our hearts. Then we start moving in the
S3: right direction. Yeah.
S2: The five. Let me just give the overview of the
S2: five things. So families who serve. That's part one. The
S2: second is husbands and wives who relate intimately. And then
S2: you go into the parenting parents who guide their children.
S2: And then the response of children who obey and honor
S2: their parents. And the fifth then, well, let's wait on
S2: the fifth and go to our first caller for Dr. Chapman.
S2: Let's talk with Kimberly, who's on the line.
S5: Good afternoon, everyone, and I love your five five, this book,
S5: I have it and I read it several times. Either way,
S5: I have five older brothers and I am the only girl.
S5: And once I got saved, I realized that my family
S5: was dysfunctional. I didn't know that before then. We weren't
S5: raised together. I was adopted out and now that we
S5: are adults, is very hard to get them to get along.
S5: So they get along with me, but they're very dysfunctional
S5: with each other because they respect my walk with Christ,
S5: and I just want them to see the life that
S5: I've seen. So how do I coach them that way?
S5: How do I model my life that way? But how
S5: do I help them?
S3: Well, I do think, Kimberly, that your model is the
S3: most important thing because even though you may feel like, well,
S3: they're not paying attention to any to my model, the
S3: reality is the model speaks more loudly even than words.
S3: But I do think also there is a place for conversation.
S3: And when you have that opportunity to them to ask
S3: questions of them, you know, how do you feel about
S3: where you are if they're married, how do you feel
S3: about where you are in your marriage now or if
S3: they're not married? How do you feel like you are
S3: in relationship to people that work with you? You know,
S3: just kind of asking question, open ended questions that they
S3: can choose to come in and share what's going on,
S3: or they may choose not to. But as you engage
S3: them and asking questions, rather than taking the approach of
S3: let me tell you something that I think would help you,
S3: because when you ask those open ended questions, it gives
S3: them a chance to begin to reveal themselves to you.
S3: And where they're hurting. And then in that context, you
S3: can often will have ideas and say, well, you know,
S3: here's something that really helped me in that area, and
S3: you can share it. So I think particularly with, with siblings,
S3: you know, grown siblings is what I'm hearing you say.
S3: The question approach is always the best approach to is
S3: the best place to start.
S4: Yes.
S2: But this goes back to something that you talk a
S2: lot about, Gary, and that is influence versus control. You.
S2: She cannot make her brothers, you know, love each other
S2: or serve each other or have a different opinion about
S2: each other or anything, but she can influence them, right?
S3: Yeah, absolutely. And that that's really the key is that
S3: in any in any close relationship, we cannot make the
S3: other person change, but we can model for them a
S3: different model. And our model is an influence and conversations
S3: we can be an influence and but ultimately we're all free.
S3: I mean, we're free to do what Adam and Eve did,
S3: just ignore God's guidelines and live our own lives. And
S3: there's always a detrimental effect to that. And we have
S3: to allow family members to be free. You know, their
S3: parents who raised children and they're Christians and strong Christians,
S3: and they take the children to church and and somewhere
S3: along the line, you know, in the young adulthood, they
S3: turn away from God, they turn away from the church.
S3: And sometimes parents say to me, well, what did we
S3: do wrong? You know, where do we fail? As if,
S3: you know, if we had been perfect, our kids would
S3: be perfect, you know? Well, you know, we're free. You know,
S3: Adam and Eve had the best father in the whole world.
S3: God was their father, and they still made wrong decisions.
S3: So I think as parents, we have to recognize, again,
S3: we can't make our children do anything or turn out
S3: any way, but we can influence them. And and that's
S3: particularly true in adult, you know, as they're younger. Of
S3: course we yeah, we can make them do some things,
S3: but but ultimately they have to make choices on their own.
S2: Kimberly, what's your response to that? Thank you.
S5: I appreciate that because I am very adamant, like, you
S5: should do this. You should do that. And as long
S5: as they don't receive me, I just think it doesn't
S5: take root because it's feeling forced. Opposed to God is
S5: a gentleman and he's not going to force himself. So
S5: in this conversation, I realized I shouldn't force what I
S5: feel or what I know, even though I can help
S5: them on them. Let them talk to me and let
S5: and I receive what they're saying, and it would be
S5: better for them.
S2: Yeah, but now comes the hard part right now. Now
S2: you have to do that. And that's what we're talking
S2: about today. On building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. Do
S2: you identify with what Kimberly just mentioned? It means you
S2: don't control the outcome. You can only be part of
S2: the positive process and allow the other person or members
S2: of the family to respond.
S1: Well, do you want a healthy family? That's what we're
S1: talking about today. I'm building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman,
S1: New York Times bestselling author of The Five Love Languages.
S1: If you go to Building relationships.us, you'll see our featured
S1: resource today, Gary's book five traits of a Healthy Family.
S1: Steps you can take to grow closer, communicate better, and
S1: change the world together again. Go to Building relationships.us. Today's
S1: program originally aired on Moody Radio back in July with Dr.
S1: Chapman and Chris. Let's get back to the conversation.
S2: Gary. At the end of the last segment, I made
S2: the point that you don't control other people's responses. You
S2: cannot finagle the outcome, but you can be faithful to
S2: the process of, for example, communicating well. The five love
S2: languages or these five traits of a healthy family are
S2: not meant to manipulate somebody to do what you think
S2: they ought to do.
S3: Yeah, Chris, I was talking about and we were talking
S3: about an active attitude of service toward the other person.
S3: You can't have the attitude that if I'll serve her,
S3: then she'll serve me. No, we have an attitude. I
S3: am going to choose to have an attitude of serving
S3: not only her, but serving people in my workplace and
S3: serving any opportunity I have in the church world and
S3: that sort of thing. It's an attitude and we choose
S3: our attitude. We don't choose our emotions. You know, you
S3: can have negative emotions towards your spouse feeling hurt because
S3: of the things they've done or haven't done, but you
S3: can still choose an attitude, the attitude of Christ. Listen,
S3: he loved us while we were sinners. You might be
S3: married to one, you know. So with God's help, we
S3: can love them and serve them. But it's not with
S3: the attitude of If I'll do this, then they will
S3: meet my needs. No, it's because of our love for them.
S3: We choose the attitude of Christ and so. But the
S3: fact is, people will be influenced when we love them,
S3: when they know they don't deserve to be loved, they
S3: don't deserve the service we're giving them. And God uses
S3: that to touch their hearts. Yeah.
S2: With Dr. Gary Chapman. Here's an on the line and
S2: go right ahead.
S6: Hi. Thanks for having me. The word that keeps bringing
S6: to my mind, you just kind of spoke about is
S6: the word mercy. And I just saw an article and
S6: I believe it was CNN that said 25% of young
S6: adults now have cut their parents out of the picture.
S6: I don't know how factual that is because you see
S6: a lot on Facebook, but I do. I do have friends,
S6: and it's a pretty becoming, pretty common. And it is
S6: so extremely painful. And I don't know, in my generation,
S6: our parents made mistakes, many, but we didn't cut them off.
S6: And I know it's a new time and all, and
S6: I know we always have to humble ourselves and recognize
S6: our failures and ask for forgiveness. But if you can't,
S6: if they won't allow it. There just needs to be mercy.
S6: And I know God can redeem any situation, but I
S6: think most parents. Do their best and. And I just
S6: I just want to say to people listening to be
S6: merciful to your parents as well, because I think also
S6: sometimes you see these articles about criminals. And while they
S6: grew up in a, in a hard life, well. Is that?
S6: Make it okay. It doesn't make it okay. We still
S6: have responsibilities. Whether things hurt us when we're young or not.
S6: So I guess mercy and just allowing God to heal hearts.
S6: But I do have compassion for parents that have been
S6: completely cut off, and it seems pretty common.
S2: Well, it cuts both ways too. And because I've heard
S2: the same thing with if my son or daughter does this,
S2: then you know they're dead to me. I'm not going
S2: to talk to them again. So but I think it
S2: happens maybe a little more often than what you're talking
S2: about is the kids saying, no, I can't do it.
S2: That situation was toxic. I'm not going to open myself
S2: up to that again. What do you say about that, Gary?
S3: Well, I think the hurt and the pain is real.
S3: We don't want to deny that. And yes, all parents
S3: fail to some degree or another. None of us are perfect.
S3: But I think to make the choice just to cut
S3: them out of my life because of what happened in
S3: the past. Or maybe what's continuing to happen is not
S3: the best choice. And sometimes, and this may sound strange,
S3: but I think sometimes the first step is for the child,
S3: the adult child, to ask themselves, where did I fail?
S3: Where have I failed to be a child that honors
S3: parents even though they're not honorable? And maybe go back
S3: to that parent and say, you know, I realize I've
S3: made a serious mistake in cutting you all out of
S3: my life. I have been hurt deeply, no question about that.
S3: But it's not a loving response to actually cut you
S3: out of my life. So if you're open and you
S3: would like for us to have lunch, you know, once
S3: every couple of weeks or once a month or whatever,
S3: I'd like to I'd like to continue our relationship and
S3: see what we can learn from each other. Sometimes that
S3: kind of humility that just simply acknowledges, you know, that
S3: you feel like you've made a wrong choice. Here is
S3: the first step in the parent opening up. And then
S3: you as you are able to have lunches, then you
S3: can talk about, you know, and ask them, you know,
S3: tell me, what was your dissatisfaction about me as a
S3: child as I grew up? What hurts you most as
S3: I grew up? You know, you just open up the
S3: door and let them share and you do that. Chances are,
S3: sooner or later the next lunch, they're going to say, okay,
S3: you tell me, where did you feel unloved or where
S3: did you feel that I hurt you? It's that kind
S3: of conversation, Chris, that leads to reconciliation. When we're open
S3: to hearing each other's hurt and looking back on it
S3: and acknowledging to each other that it was wrong and
S3: asking for forgiveness. And there can always be healing. Now,
S3: obviously it takes two to heal a breached relationship, but
S3: somebody has to take the initiative and often, even if
S3: they're 95% of the problem, you're only five. You apologize
S3: for your part, your 5%. It opens the door to
S3: the possibility of conversations where we can process our feelings.
S2: So this is and I'm wondering if the John who
S2: stayed with your family saw this. This brings up communication,
S2: and it also highlights listening and being inquisitive, you know,
S2: asking good questions. And then ask listening for the answer.
S2: How important is that communication or even being willing to
S2: open up the communication with somebody else?
S3: Well, we don't make progress in a relationship without communication.
S3: You know, communication is to a relationship what oxygen is
S3: to the body. It's an absolute necessity. We will never
S3: make progress if we just keep our distance and we
S3: don't talk. The relationship will continue to be fractured. But
S3: if we're willing to take a step trying to open
S3: up an opportunity for conversation, and I'm saying that often
S3: an apology is the first step because you're not going
S3: at them and blaming them and lashing out at them
S3: because it just gets worse. You have another big argument
S3: and then you just walk away. And so that's the
S3: last time, you know, no, no, no. You take the humility,
S3: the attitude of humility and go acknowledge what you consider
S3: to be your failures and and just simply ask for
S3: an opportunity that we can talk. I want I want
S3: to ask you, mom, to share some things with me
S3: or dad share, share with me. What were your frustrations
S3: when we were at home and growing up? What were
S3: you going through? And you know, many times our parents
S3: will be willing to open up and let let us
S3: in on what was going on in their lives. And
S3: that doesn't excuse it if it was really, really bad behavior.
S3: But at least now you're listening with a different ear
S3: because you're learning something about what was going on inside
S3: of their lives.
S2: Five traits of a healthy family. Steps you can take
S2: to grow closer, communicate better, and change the world together.
S2: That's our featured resource at building relationships.us. Before we take
S2: a break, let's hear from Alina.
S7: Hi. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my phone call.
S7: So as I was explaining earlier to the lady who
S7: answered the phone, um, we have a blended family and
S7: there's a lot of conflict and it's been ongoing for
S7: many years. Our daughter is, um, 12 going on 13,
S7: and it's impacting her very deeply. Um, and we just can't,
S7: you know, seem to get along. And we're the Christians,
S7: so we look pretty bad. Probably in her eyes, too.
S7: We're trying to raise her as a Christian. And so
S7: she has like a double life where on her biological
S7: mom's side, there's no Christianity. The friendships on that side
S7: are not encouraging of church or Jesus. Um, and so
S7: she feels alienated, even from God and us when she's
S7: over there. And then when she's here, we don't talk
S7: that much about what's going on over there. And so
S7: she's in the middle. But, um, I was listening to
S7: some of the things you were saying, you know, about
S7: the communication. There's no communication. It's it's being funneled through
S7: the child. Um, and we try through emails and text
S7: messages to communicate with mom, but, um, she'd rather use
S7: attorneys and or the child.
S2: Let me ask you this, Elena is does your is
S2: the daughter. Does she look at your faith in your
S2: Christianity and see things that she doesn't want? Or that
S2: right now that she's pushing back against because she feels
S2: like this is not this is fake to me because
S2: of this or that or the other thing, is that
S2: what she's going through?
S7: Well. No, she's she's she's been going to church since
S7: she was two years old. And she got baptized in 2022.
S7: She always had a strong faith and been drawn to Jesus.
S7: And you know, we pray and she hasn't said anything
S7: about what we look like. But she's angry with God now.
S7: She says, I've been praying for this family forever, and
S7: he's ghosting me. Um, he's not answering my prayer. He
S7: doesn't care. And the Bible doesn't isn't doing anything for me.
S7: Got it.
S2: Okay. And that's a really good way of putting it.
S2: You tell her. I say that she feels like God
S2: is ghosting her. That's. That puts the finger on the
S2: nerve that he's there, but he doesn't really care. You know, Gary,
S2: what would you say?
S3: Yeah. I think if we're talking about her relationship with
S3: her biological mother and maybe her stepfather on that side
S3: to let her know and say, honey, you know, the
S3: fact that you're praying that God will work in her
S3: heart and da da da da da. But keep in mind,
S3: God doesn't make people do things. You know, God influences us,
S3: and God brings people along the way to speak to us,
S3: but he doesn't make us do right. And so even,
S3: even in answer to our prayer, because God is not
S3: going to, you know, he gives us freedom to choose.
S3: And your your biological mother has freedom to choose the
S3: decisions that she makes. So we have to recognize that
S3: that may be a part of helping her understand, you know,
S3: why what she perceives as unanswered prayer is that she's
S3: asking God to do something that he's not. He's not
S3: going to make her change. He he will answer prayer
S3: in terms of bringing people into her lives and situations
S3: that will be designed to help her biological mother make
S3: wise decisions, but he will not make her do that.
S1: This is building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of
S1: the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. For
S1: more ways to strengthen relationships, head on over to our website.
S1: Building relationships.us. You'll find the book we're talking about today
S1: right there. It's titled five traits of a Healthy Family.
S1: Just go to building relationships.us.
S4: All right.
S2: We talked about this about a half hour ago, and
S2: we better keep our promise about revealing the fifth trait
S2: of a healthy family. And this 1st May surprise people
S2: as well. You talk about the husband being the leader
S2: of the family, and if you say that very loud
S2: in today's culture, you're going to get called names or
S2: people will cancel you. It's controversial. Why do you use
S2: that word leader?
S3: I think because Chris, the biblical word is the husband
S3: is the head of the wife. And contemporary word would
S3: be leader, as I view that. But I think, again,
S3: where the pushback is many people have misinterpreted that biblical
S3: concept and some have the entity. What do you mean, husband?
S3: The leader? You know he's not the leader. You know
S3: we're equals. You know, certainly you're equals. We're both made
S3: in the image of God were equals. But use the
S3: biblical model. It says the husbands, the head of the wife,
S3: as Christ is the head of the church. What did
S3: the head of the church do? He died for the church.
S3: Who would not want a leader like that that's willing
S3: to die for them? You know? So if we get
S3: the biblical concept of leadership, and I spell this out
S3: in the book, of course, that that he views his
S3: wife as a partner, an equal partner in our relationship
S3: where we're on the team together and he will communicate
S3: with his wife. He won't make wild decisions on his own.
S3: He wants to have two minds in making decisions. And
S3: so he'll talk about that. He'll community. He'll put her
S3: at the top of his priority list. Somebody said, wait
S3: a minute, I think God's supposed to be at the
S3: top of our list. Well, he is, but when you
S3: report to God is a Christian husband, God says, oh, well,
S3: now let's say you're married. So the first thing is,
S3: I want you to meet your wife's needs. I want
S3: you to put her first in your life. I want
S3: you to seek to meet her needs. Whew. Okay, well,
S3: what wife would not want a husband with that attitude?
S3: You know, honey, I want to find out what I
S3: can do to meet. Meet your needs. So let's share
S3: them with me. You know, he's committed to discovering his
S3: wife's needs and meeting those needs. And he sets a
S3: model for his moral and spiritual values. So, you know,
S3: a lot a lot of fine details there in terms
S3: of applying all of this. But don't ever forget the
S3: the biblical concept of the husband as the leader does
S3: not mean that he makes all the decisions and tells
S3: the wife what to do. No no no no no no.
S3: He sees it as a partner and he wants to
S3: make decisions together with her. And he has an attitude
S3: of wanting to give his life to enrich her life.
S3: Exactly what Jesus did. Who was the head of the church.
S3: So we get that concept. I think wives do not
S3: oppose that. Wives would long for a husband who has
S3: the attitude of Christ.
S2: Which takes us to Kyle. Kyle, what's your question for Dr. Chapman?
S8: Well, I'm just processing all of what I've heard the
S8: last 15 or 20 minutes, and I have two of
S8: my four daughters. Ten years ago, after 25 years, I
S8: went through divorce. And. And so I've got a daughter
S8: that has not spoken to me in two years and
S8: one about eight. And so my contention is I just
S8: live my life. I can't rush the fruit. I heard
S8: a few of your nuggets here in the last 15 minutes.
S8: Your book is sounds awesome, but I just thought I'd
S8: just check in with you for additional wisdom. Well aware
S8: of all the love languages.
S2: So the two daughters that are estranged are adults now
S2: it looks like they're in their late 20s, early 30s. So, Gary,
S2: what what would you say?
S3: Yeah. And I hear you saying that happened after the divorce.
S8: Correct? Yeah.
S3: Yeah. It's not. It's not unusual that adult children whose
S3: whose parents divorce will blame one of those parents for,
S3: you know, for the divorce. And sometimes they make the
S3: poor decision of just cutting off that parent because they're
S3: just so upset and angry that you would, you know,
S3: divorce my mother, that that kind of thing. So that
S3: may be involved in with your daughter. I don't know,
S3: because I can't read their hearts in their minds. But
S3: and again, you're right in that you cannot make them
S3: reach out to you and be involved with them. But
S3: I do think this, I think to to say to them,
S3: as you have would have an opportunity. I just want
S3: you to know, I'm empathetic with the fact that she
S3: withdrew from me because of the divorce and all that
S3: went on there, and I can see how that was
S3: very painful to you and very hurtful to you. And,
S3: you know, I can't make you have a relationship with me,
S3: but I want you to know, I do love you.
S3: And if there's anything I can ever do to help you,
S3: I want to do it. You know, it's that kind
S3: of approach may begin to soften their hearts so that
S3: they will again say, well, maybe we ought to. Let's
S3: have lunch together. So it's those kind of baby steps,
S3: but it comes, I think, with your being real to say,
S3: you know, honey, I can't make you accept me and
S3: have a relationship with me and I can understand, you know,
S3: some of the hurt that you've gone through. That approach
S3: is the better approach.
S2: And it's taken a long time for all of that
S2: hurt to to fester and to cause the fracture. So
S2: for Kyle to be patient and to as he moves
S2: toward them is not going to be an overnight process.
S2: As I'm sure Kyle already knows, you're playing for the
S2: fourth quarter. You know, you're you're playing for the long game, right, Gary?
S3: Yeah, absolutely, Chris. And so you never know because we
S3: can't make our adult children, you know, change their hearts
S3: and minds toward us. But we can have a warm
S3: attitude and an understanding attitude toward them.
S2: Well, Gary, thank you for sharing your heart in this hour,
S2: for opening up your home all those years ago. Imagine
S2: what wouldn't have happened if you had said no to
S2: that college graduate. This would be a whole different program,
S2: a different experience for you, isn't it?
S3: Well, it would, Chris. And he told me he has
S3: made a tremendous impact upon his life. So it was
S3: a fun time and we really enjoyed it. And and
S3: he did it and it had an impact on our
S3: children as well. You.
S2: Will you find the featured resource from today at our website?
S2: Building relationships.us. The full title is five traits of a
S2: Healthy Family. Steps you can take to grow closer, communicate better,
S2: and change the world together. Just go to building relationships.us.
S3: And next week the life changing practice of paying attention.
S3: Learn to listen to your day in one week.
S1: A big thank you to our production team, Steve Wick
S1: and Janice. Backing and thanks to Ryan McConaughey and Tricia
S1: McMillan from Chris Fabry. Live. Building relationships with Dr. Gary
S1: Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with
S1: Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.