S1: Who owns the land where Israel is today? Are the
S1: Israelis occupiers and oppressors, or does the media have it wrong?
S1: We're about to dig into this hot topic on today's
S1: edition of The Land and the book, along with, of course,
S1: a review of all the incredible action in the Middle
S1: East this past week. Plus, Charlie Dyer's devotional reminds us
S1: that the October 7th attack on Israel has an eerie
S1: parallel in ancient scripture. Welcome to the land and the book,
S1: a one hour flyover of the Middle East. Our host,
S1: Old Testament scholar and author Doctor Charlie Dyer. And I'm
S1: John Gager. Boy, Israel has been in the news just
S1: entirely throughout the week and in fact, throughout the past year.
S1: And as we know, Charlie, the Bible is jam packed
S1: with end times prophecies about epic world events, the regathering
S1: of the Jewish people to their ancient homeland, and of course,
S1: Jesus return. Seems to me it's crucial for us as believers, though,
S1: to have a proper understanding of Bible prophecy. So our
S1: view of the future is shaped by Scripture, not just
S1: today's headlines. Right?
S2: It is John. And with that in mind, our friends
S2: at Life and Messiah have published a book titled God,
S2: Israel and Bible Prophecy, and they're offering it to listeners
S2: of the land in the book for a limited time.
S2: This informative book is focused on providing readers with a
S2: deeper understanding and greater appreciation for what God has in
S2: store for Israel and the nations by digging into what
S2: the scriptures say about these issues. Now, if you're interested
S2: in learning more about what God has in store, visit
S2: Life in Messiah. Org and click on the Moody Radio
S2: button there to find out how you can receive your
S2: copy of God, Israel and Bible Prophecy. That's life in messiah.org.
S1: Well, Charlie, in the middle of all the tension and
S1: turmoil of the week, there's something to celebrate an anniversary
S1: here at the land of the book. We've reached our
S1: 14th year of broadcasting.
S2: Isn't that amazing, John? Time has flown. Yeah.
S1: And God has been good. And we thank you for listening.
S1: We thank you to the management of this station for
S1: providing air time for the land and the book. If
S1: it's been a while since you've said thank you to them,
S1: please do so today in honor of our 14th birthday, well,
S1: let's swing our focus toward current events, Charlie. On Tuesday
S1: of this week, Iran fired 181 ballistic missiles at Israel.
S1: The question is, what impact did the attack have on
S1: the country? And perhaps more importantly, what happens next?
S2: Yeah, and some missiles did land in Israel, but thankfully
S2: there were no casualties. Though a Palestinian near Jericho was
S2: killed by falling shrapnel. The main injuries to Israelis were
S2: people who fell while running to bomb shelters, and then
S2: two people in Tel Aviv who were slightly hurt by shrapnel.
S2: Now it takes just 12 minutes for a missile to
S2: travel from Iran to Israel. That's not a lot of time,
S2: but it's enough for people to reach a place of shelter. And.
S2: Israel's new high tech missile alert system was used for
S2: the very first time. it's sophisticated enough to send a
S2: specific message to an individual cell phone in an area
S2: that's being targeted by one of these missiles. Now, some
S2: missiles landed at Israeli air bases, hitting office buildings and
S2: maintenance areas, but no aircraft or major infrastructure was damaged.
S2: Following the attack, Prime Minister Netanyahu said Iran made a
S2: big mistake by launching it and will pay the price.
S2: And U.S. officials also said there would be severe consequences
S2: for Iran's attack and that the U.S. would work with
S2: Israel to make that happen. The question now is what
S2: exactly will that response look like, and how long might
S2: it take before it's launched?
S1: Charlie, what is the likelihood, do you think of Israel
S1: using this moment as a chance to finally go into
S1: Iran and attack their nuclear facilities?
S2: I think that is a possibility. And that's what's being
S2: discussed with the U.S. right now.
S1: What is a likely scenario in your in your estimation?
S2: I think they have to hit Iran. I think they're
S2: going to go after some of the infrastructure there and
S2: try and degrade the Iranian economy and certainly some of
S2: their military aspects. But what that will be that's, I think,
S2: a matter of discussion, and I have a feeling that
S2: Israel will want to do more than the U.S. will
S2: allow them to do.
S1: You started last week's lead story on the conflict between
S1: Israel and Hezbollah by saying it's hard to stay current
S1: on everything taking place, and that has certainly remained true
S1: over this past week as well. So what has been
S1: happening there and what can we expect in the coming days?
S2: Well, you know, to say that the attack against Hezbollah's leader, Nasrallah,
S2: sent shockwaves throughout the Middle East is an understatement. That's
S2: one of the reasons that Iran just launched the attack.
S2: It did. But from the exploding pagers to the exploding
S2: walkie talkies to the elimination of an entire senior level
S2: of Hezbollah's leaders at one time to the destruction of
S2: Hezbollah's main underground headquarters, where Nasrallah was present, show a
S2: level of intelligence gathering sophistication and dedicated, detailed planning that
S2: has frightened Israel's enemies. That secret bunker was thought to
S2: be bomb proof, and it was completely wiped out, along
S2: with five apartment buildings under which it had been constructed.
S2: No one in the headquarters survived. Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini was
S2: rushed to an undisclosed location in Tehran following the news
S2: of the strike, apparently fearing a similar strike against him. Now,
S2: in spite of many in the West calling for a
S2: cease fire, Israel has continued to press its offensive. Several
S2: additional regional commanders were eliminated, along with numerous storage facilities
S2: holding missiles and launchers. Hezbollah has tried to respond, but
S2: so far the response has been limited and uncoordinated because
S2: of the damage done to their system of command and control,
S2: and because of the number of rockets and launchers that
S2: have already been eliminated. The war against Hezbollah has entered
S2: a new phase, as Israel launched a ground offensive in Lebanon,
S2: with the apparent goal of clearing Hezbollah's forces and infrastructure
S2: from along their northern border. The one thing Israel doesn't
S2: want to do right now, though, is get involved in
S2: a protracted ground war in Lebanon. That happened twice before,
S2: and that's not a good thing for Israel.
S1: Charlie also noted some activity in the war against Hamas.
S1: Israelis have been going in there with with a big passion.
S2: Yeah, the war with Hamas continues, even though it's been
S2: shuffled to the back of the page with everything else happening.
S2: But the two key goals remain the return of the
S2: hostages and the elimination of Hamas leadership, especially Sinwar. It's
S2: clear Israel is trying to decapitate Hamas like they have Hezbollah,
S2: and to disrupt their system of command and control. Now,
S2: in response to a ballistic missile fired from Yemen by
S2: the Houthis, Israel launched a second major attack against them.
S2: This time, they attacked another port where the Iran backed
S2: group was receiving arms and oil. The message to Yemen,
S2: which was also intended for Iran, by the way, is
S2: that Israel has the ability to conduct major strikes at
S2: any distance near or far against those threatening them. And
S2: as long as we're looking at the area. Fighting has
S2: also continued in the West Bank. Last Sunday night, a
S2: firefight in Nablus injured four Israeli soldiers while killing one
S2: terrorist and wounding another. And then on Tuesday, two terrorists
S2: from Hebron attacked civilians in Jaffa with a rifle and
S2: a knife, killing seven before they themselves were killed by
S2: a security guard and by armed civilians. Iran is still
S2: the puppet master that's encouraged all these groups to attack.
S2: They've been shamed by Israel, which has demonstrated its ability
S2: to attack their allies at will. And Iran is hoping
S2: to use their missiles, as well as those supplied to
S2: their allies, to force Israel to back down. But if
S2: that's the message they're trying to send, Israel doesn't appear
S2: to be listening.
S1: You're listening to The Land and the book from Moody
S1: Radio with our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, noted Old Testament scholar,
S1: Middle East Authority. We're looking at the news that's based
S1: in the Middle East this week. Well, this week also
S1: marked the start of the year, 5785 on the Hebrew calendar.
S1: And as they do every year, Israel's Central Bureau of
S1: Statistics released figures on the country's current Population. What can
S1: we learn from those latest numbers, Charlie?
S2: Well, you know, I always find these fascinating. At the
S2: start of the new year, the population of Israel stood
S2: at 9,999,000. The population is expected to top 10 million
S2: within a matter of weeks. Now, of that total, almost
S2: 7.7 million are Jews and 2.1 million are Arabs. The
S2: overall population increased by over 118,000 during the year. Of
S2: those who made Aliya or who emigrated into Israel, the
S2: largest number came from Russia, the United States, Canada and France,
S2: and a third of the new immigrants were young people
S2: between the ages of 18 and 35. Worldwide, the total
S2: Jewish population is estimated to now stand at 15.8 million,
S2: so almost half of the world's Jews are in Israel.
S2: The bottom line is that Israel has continued to experience
S2: population growth in spite of political unrest and war, and
S2: that has to be an encouragement to them.
S1: Well, the global demand for chocolate has been increasing by 5%
S1: every year. But unsustainable growing practices are threatening the long
S1: term survival of this sweet treat. Thankfully, those scientists and
S1: amazing Israel are coming to the rescue. What are Israel's
S1: technological chocolatiers doing to preserve the world's supply of chocolate?
S2: Well, you know, listeners might not even be aware of
S2: the fact that $133 billion chocolate industry is facing a crisis. 70%
S2: of the world's cocoa beans are grown in West Africa.
S2: Land there has been deforested to plant new cocoa trees,
S2: causing serious environmental damage. And yet, because of disease and
S2: climate change, the production of cocoa beans there continues to fall.
S2: And that's where the scientists in Israel might just be
S2: coming to the rescue in the nick of time. A
S2: company called Celeste Bio has developed a process to cultivate
S2: cocoa in the laboratory that's indistinguishable from farmed cocoa. The
S2: lab cocoa is grown from just a couple beans and
S2: can be repeatedly produced. There are other companies working on
S2: similar processes, but Celeste Bio is the first to produce
S2: chocolate grade cocoa butter in just seven days. They can
S2: take cells from 1 or 2 cocoa beans and mature
S2: them so that the butter can be harvested, and at
S2: no stage does the process involve genetic modification. The bioreactor
S2: becomes the forest, if you will, for growing the beans.
S2: The process also eliminates any vulnerability to pests and disease.
S2: Celeste Bio is currently focusing on expanding this operation, and
S2: when that happens, I'm sure all of us chocoholics will
S2: rejoice at the innovation coming from amazing Israel. Well, that's.
S1: A bit of a sweet ending to a rather disturbing
S1: look at current events. Thank you though for all those insights, Charlie.
S1: Appreciate you staying on top of that, and we're looking
S1: forward to a conversation with you on the other side
S1: of this break, looking at who owns the land. We'll
S1: dig deep into that. Questions. You need to hear. Answers
S1: you must hang on to next on the land and
S1: the book. Here we are at the doorstep of the
S1: one year anniversary of the Hamas attack on Israel. What
S1: are the most important takeaways from this conflict? More importantly,
S1: is there any light at the end of this very
S1: dark tunnel? And since we're asking questions, who owns the land,
S1: the land where Israel sits today? Some believers offer unwavering
S1: but sometimes uninformed support for Israel. Other Christians say the
S1: Palestinians are being treated unfairly. Just what is the history
S1: of this conflict? We'll dig into all of that next. Hey,
S1: welcome to segment two of The Land and the book.
S1: Before we crank up the heat on today's conversation, let's
S1: enjoy an encouraging idea about sharing Christ with a Jewish friend.
S1: As a believer in Jesus, do you celebrate Rosh Hashanah?
S1: Why not? If your answer is no? Well, let's ask
S1: Roy Schwarz of Chosen People Ministries. Roy.
S3: Well, it's a biblical time, Rosh Hashanah. So it's a
S3: time where it's one of God's appointed times for us
S3: as believers. It points to the rapture of the church,
S3: where the trump of God shall blow and the dead
S3: in Messiah will rise. Leviticus 23 talks about you shall
S3: have a rest, a memorial by blowing of trumpets. And
S3: what greater reminder of the fact that what we as
S3: Christians are waiting for is a rest that remains a
S3: Sabbath rest for the people of God, and that ultimate
S3: rest will be the rapture of the church, when the
S3: trump of God shall blow and the dead in Messiah
S3: shall rise, and we shall be alive with the Lord evermore.
S3: So Rosh Hashanah is a great time. Well, give me a.
S1: Quick pointer here. How do I turn the corner from
S1: what a typical Jewish response or definition of Rosh Hashanah
S1: would be to what we understand biblically of the future.
S3: Well, it's something new for Jewish people. It's a new year.
S3: It's a time of preparation, time to prepare our hearts
S3: for Yom Kippur. It's a time of self-examination and to
S3: be ready for atonement.
S1: Roy Schwarz with Chosen People Ministries. Thank you. Without question.
S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer is a real Middle East expert, not
S1: a political pundit. He's been to the Holy Land more
S1: than 100 times. Naturally, he's also made repeated trips to
S1: Jordan and Turkey. And did I mention he was twice
S1: an invited guest to the country of Iraq? Few people
S1: alive today understand the complexity of the Middle East, like
S1: our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer. You know and love him
S1: as the host of our weekly broadcast, The Land and
S1: the book. And he's written extensively about the Middle East.
S1: In fact, Charlie literally helped write the book on this
S1: issue at stake. Today, he has updated Stanley Ellison's Moody
S1: Publishers release, Who Owns the Land? Well, thanks for sitting
S1: down with us today. We need your perspectives, Charlie. Hey.
S2: Thanks, John. Anytime with you. Is time well spent?
S1: Well, let's start with a one year look back at
S1: the war. What are the most important insights or lessons
S1: we should take away from this war?
S2: For us, I think it's two things. One, it's a
S2: reminder why Hamas refuses to allow Israel to exist as
S2: a nation. This, at the very heart of it, is
S2: a religious conflict, not a political, not a social conflict.
S2: It's a conflict between two views of life and two
S2: gods that are diametrically opposed to one another. And that's
S2: why it's so hard to solve. And and frankly, that
S2: leads to the second point, which is the reason the
S2: West has had such a difficult time trying to get
S2: a handle on this is we view things from a
S2: secular perspective. And when you view the Middle East, especially
S2: this conflict, you've got to view it with religious eyes.
S1: Is there any light at the end of this very
S1: dark tunnel? People want to know, you know.
S2: Long range view. Yes. Because we know Jesus is coming
S2: back and he's going to solve the problems short term. No.
S2: And that's part of the problem that gets us so discouraged.
S2: We want the problem. That's like a television program to
S2: be resolved within 60 minutes, you know? Short term solution
S2: that solves it. And everybody lives happily ever after. And unfortunately,
S2: there is no short term solution to this. There are
S2: winners and there are losers, but there's no way for compromise,
S2: at least in the short term.
S1: Well, let's pivot toward a discussion that is very much
S1: at the heart of the coverage of this war. Who
S1: owns the land? Take us to a simple explanation of
S1: God's agreement with Israel to give them the land forever.
S1: And that's key.
S2: Yeah. It is. And I think we've got to start
S2: with one key point. The real owner of the land
S2: isn't Israel or the Palestinians, it's God. In Psalm 24,
S2: the psalmist wrote, the earth is the Lord's and everything
S2: in it. God is the one who owns it all.
S2: And in Leviticus 25, when God was speaking to Israel
S2: regarding the year of Jubilee, he says the land must
S2: not be sold permanently because the land is mine and
S2: you're but aliens and my tenants. So God makes it
S2: very clear he's the ultimate owner of the land. Now
S2: in terms of what God did with that land in
S2: Genesis 12. God spoke to Abraham and he said to
S2: your offspring, I will give this land. Uh, the next
S2: chapter he says the same thing again. He says, walk
S2: through the land. I'm giving it to you. Two chapters later,
S2: Genesis 15, God cuts a covenant. He signs on the
S2: bottom line, if you will, of an agreement. And he says,
S2: there on that day the Lord made a covenant with
S2: Abraham and says to your descendants, I give this land.
S2: Now Abraham had Ishmael, and then later he has Isaac.
S2: So which one gets the land? Well, in Genesis 17,
S2: God says, I'm going to bless Ishmael. I'll make him fruitful.
S2: I'll greatly increase his numbers. But my covenant I'll establish
S2: with Isaac. Later in Genesis 28, God says to Jacob,
S2: I'm with you, and I'm going to give you and
S2: your descendants the land. So the land promise from God
S2: was to Abraham and his descendants. But then it's limited
S2: by God to Isaac, to Jacob, who of course became
S2: Israel and the 12 tribes of Israel.
S1: And the year this would have taken place is approximately
S1: what on the timeline. Charlie?
S2: Well, about 2000 BC is when Abraham was living. So
S2: it's 2000 years before the time of Jesus. What's amazing
S2: is how many times that's reaffirmed 600 years later. God
S2: reaffirms it to Moses in the book of Deuteronomy. And
S2: then 700 years later, God reaffirms it by Micah the prophet.
S2: In fact, the last verses in the book of Micah.
S2: God promised it to Abraham and pledged it on oath.
S2: And then in the time of Paul in the New Testament,
S2: Romans 11 says, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,
S2: because God's gift and his call are irrevocable. In essence,
S2: Paul saying, God made a promise and he doesn't go
S2: back on his word. So this 2000 year development of
S2: a promise and it constantly says exactly the same thing.
S1: That's Doctor Charlie Dyer, who's updated the Moody publisher's book
S1: Who Owns the Land? You say that Jewish people have
S1: continuously lived in Israel in lesser or greater numbers ever
S1: since then. Why is that such an important point? Well, that's.
S2: Crucial because if people listen to the arguments being made. Now,
S2: one of the arguments is that Israel and the Jews
S2: are Western colonizers. They stole the land from the indigenous Palestinians.
S2: So they equate modern Israel with what the British did
S2: in like India or South Africa, or like what the
S2: French did in North Africa. But the Jews are not
S2: European colonizers. They were the indigenous people who were ethnically
S2: cleansed from the land by the Assyrians, by the Babylonians,
S2: later by the Romans. But even then a remnant always
S2: remained in the land. And so while they were scattered,
S2: the focus was always on returning to their homeland. In fact,
S2: they would say next year in Jerusalem, as part of
S2: their ritual for Passover and the Day of Atonement. So
S2: they're not foreign occupiers. They're returning to the land of
S2: their ancestors, a land promised to them by God, and
S2: a land where a remnant has lived for all those years.
S1: One of the more confusing things for lesser informed minds
S1: is the idea that Israel was for so many years
S1: called Palestine. So didn't the Israelis displace Palestinians, and if so,
S1: Palestinian people are without a country. Or it appears if
S1: you read the media, Charlie, untangle this for us.
S2: Oh, man. Yeah, it's one of those that just goes
S2: on and on and you wonder, how do we get
S2: it together? So here's what we need to know. The
S2: word Palestine was not an ethnic description. In fact, it
S2: was a geographical term given to the land by the
S2: Romans back in the second century. So the people who
S2: lived in the land were called Palestinians in the same way.
S2: I guess if someone lives in Virginia, they're called Virginians. Genetically,
S2: the Palestinians, as we think of them today, are a
S2: mixture of every group who came through that land through history.
S2: The Romans were there, and the Arabs, the Jewish remnant
S2: who were there. In fact, the Jewish newspaper today called
S2: the Jerusalem Post up until the 1900s was the Palestine
S2: Post because it was in the land of Palestine. But
S2: the Palestinian people are really a mixture ethnically, of all
S2: the groups who came through during that time. But that's
S2: why we have to understand Palestine and Palestinian referred not
S2: to the people, but to a land area. Up until
S2: very recently.
S1: Okay, let's go back to 636 and 637 A.D. this
S1: is the Muslim siege of Jerusalem. And they claim that
S1: because Islamic forces conquered the Jewish people, Israel's land is
S1: now theirs forever, according to their scriptures. Seems to me
S1: the real conflict here is simply whose book is the book?
S1: Your thoughts?
S2: You're exactly right. In fact, even more significantly, whose God
S2: is the real God? Because the God of Islam presented
S2: in the Quran isn't the same as the God of
S2: Israel presented in the Bible. And and the God of
S2: Israel said to Jacob, this land is yours and your
S2: descendants forever. The God of the Quran, Allah said, you've
S2: conquered this, and land conquered for me belongs to me.
S2: And I've dispossessed the Jewish people for their lack of belief.
S2: So which God really is God? And that's at the
S2: heart of the conflict.
S1: All right, let's fast forward to modern times. Give us
S1: a 62nd summary of the founding of the modern State
S1: of Israel in plain English. And why didn't the United
S1: Nations also create a state for Arabs living in that region?
S2: Well, you know, in World War One, the allies promised
S2: the Jewish people a national homeland. It's the Balfour Declaration
S2: is what it's called. They also promised the Arab leaders
S2: that they could have their own country. In essence, they
S2: promised the same land to two different groups, which is
S2: a major problem. But they promised it to the Arabs
S2: if they would drive out the Turks. The British were
S2: given the mandate to bring it all about, and the
S2: first thing they did was carved out the modern country
S2: of Jordan, which was originally part of the Promised Land.
S2: So they did give a country to the Arabs, and
S2: that's the country we know today as Jordan. Then in 1947,
S2: the UN voted to partition the remaining land into two
S2: more countries, one for Israel and one for the Palestinians.
S2: Now it was far less than what had been promised
S2: to Israel, but they reluctantly accepted the vote. But the
S2: Arab countries and the Palestinians rejected it, refusing to accept
S2: any state of Israel. Well, After that fighting was over
S2: in 1948, Israel ended up with its country, but Jordan
S2: annexed the West Bank and made it part of their country,
S2: and Egypt took over Gaza. So the Palestinians ended up
S2: with no country, only because of the war that came
S2: when they opposed Israel having its own country.
S1: Well, often ignored or distorted in the conversation is the
S1: expulsion of Arabs from Israel and Jews from Arab countries.
S1: Just what are the facts here? And how did they
S1: come to bear on this conversation?
S2: Yeah, you'll often hear and symbols used of a key.
S2: There were about 600,000, and nobody knows the exact number,
S2: but about 600,000 Arabs who lost their home when the
S2: 1948 War of Independence took place. What people don't also
S2: understand is that an even greater number, about 700 to 900,000. Again,
S2: nobody knows the exact number of Jews who lost their
S2: homes in Arab countries. They were expelled from Arab countries
S2: with with just the clothes on their back in many cases. Now,
S2: the difference between the two. Israel took in those Jewish
S2: refugees and helped them rebuild their lives. But the Palestinian refugees,
S2: the Arab refugees who fled the land, were not given
S2: the same kind of treatment by their Arab host neighbors.
S2: They were put into refugee camps, really squalid slums, and
S2: forced to live there. They weren't given citizenship or weren't
S2: allowed to integrate with those society. And that's where the
S2: problem of Palestinian refugees comes from today. So there was
S2: almost equal numbers of refugees on both sides. You can't
S2: unscramble an egg. The real question is what do you
S2: do with those people after that problem has formed and
S2: Israel took the time to integrate their refugees? The Arab
S2: countries did not.
S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer has updated the Moody Publishers book Who
S1: Owns the Land? Let me ask you point blank, is
S1: Israel a nation of occupiers? Why or why not?
S2: The short answer is they're not. And the reason? First,
S2: they have a historic claim to the land. They're the
S2: only nation on Earth with a title deed given to
S2: a land that was given to them by God himself,
S2: they came back to their homeland to avoid the horrible
S2: persecution they were experiencing at the hands of others, not
S2: only World War two and the Holocaust, but in Russia,
S2: in the Arab countries, they had to come back to
S2: find a place where they could find safety. They originally
S2: hoped to live in harmony with their Arab neighbors until
S2: that proved untenable. But in reality, they're not occupiers. They're
S2: people returning to their land where they had been ethnically
S2: cleansed before.
S1: Why do younger evangelicals tend to side consistently with Palestinians
S1: rather than Israelis? And why don't you speak directly to them?
S1: What would you have them understand differently?
S2: Well, I'd probably say something. In fact, I will say
S2: something to them. You don't know the history or the culture.
S2: You get your information and your world view from social media,
S2: which is distorted. You really need to go back to
S2: the Bible to reverse the trend. Start with the Bible.
S2: And in second Timothy three, Paul describes the state of
S2: the world in the last days, and he brackets it
S2: with three of the greatest statements on the importance of
S2: God's Word. You know, in second Timothy 215 he says,
S2: present yourself to God as workers who don't need to
S2: be ashamed, who correctly handled the word of truth. In
S2: chapter three says, All Scripture is God breathed and profitable
S2: for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness. And then
S2: in chapter four he says, in light of Christ's return,
S2: proclaim the word whether it's convenient or not. But the
S2: point is, the key way to handle error is to
S2: focus on truth. And so to the extent that you're
S2: not paying attention to the Word of God, you're being duped.
S2: You're being led astray. Focus on the Bible now. Don't
S2: accept what I'm saying at face value. Go to the
S2: Bible to see if what I'm saying matches up.
S1: Charlie. What? We're reading this book. Who owns the land?
S1: Do for me. And understanding this conflict.
S2: Well, it'll provide the historical, the geographical and the biblical
S2: context that most don't have. You know, people get taken
S2: in by the emotional stories in the media, but those
S2: stories don't present the whole truth. It's not a case
S2: where everyone's wearing white hats or black hats where there's
S2: good guys and bad guys and they're clearly identified. It's
S2: a story about God, his plans and his promises, and
S2: what he has to say about the present and future
S2: for this slice of real estate where he's working.
S1: And we'll put a link to his book, Who Owns
S1: the Land from Moody Publishers at our web site. The
S1: land and the book. Org. Charlie, I'm looking forward to
S1: having you back in our next segment answering questions. You
S1: got your Bible ready?
S2: I got it ready, John.
S1: All right. That's next on the land and the book.
S1: Welcome back to segment three of the Land of the
S1: Book Bible questions and Answers. I'm John Jacob with our host,
S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer, always pumped about what's come in via email.
S1: Fascinating to see what interests you. I'm as interested in
S1: knowing what the answers are as anybody. First, though, you know,
S1: Israel has been in the news, of course, a lot
S1: over this past year and as we know, the Bible
S1: is jam packed with end times prophecies. Epic world events,
S1: the regathering of the Jewish people to their ancient homeland,
S1: and Jesus return. It is crucial for us, though, as believers,
S1: to have a proper understanding of Bible prophecy. So our
S1: view of the future is shaped by Scripture and not
S1: just today's headlines. Right, Charlie?
S2: Absolutely, John. And with that in mind, our friends at
S2: Life and Messiah have published a book titled God, Israel
S2: and Bible Prophecy, and they're offering it to listeners of
S2: the land in the book for a limited time. This
S2: informative book is focused on providing readers with a deeper
S2: understanding and greater appreciation of what God has in store
S2: for Israel and the nations by digging into what the
S2: scriptures say about these issues. Now, if you're interested in
S2: learning more about what God has in store, visit Life
S2: in Messiah. Org and click on the Moody Radio button
S2: there to find out how you can receive your copy
S2: of God, Israel and Bible Prophecy. That's life in Dot org.
S1: Our first question of the day is from Norm. Who
S1: wants to have your insights, Charlie, on the New Apostolic
S1: Reformation and their teaching, in particular their belief in the
S1: offices and roles of apostles and prophets being for today.
S1: He says, now that we have God's completed revelation in
S1: print form, I believe that their teaching on these roles
S1: is in error. Your thoughts? Yeah.
S2: I've not had a lot of interaction with the New
S2: Apostolic Reformation movement, but from what I do know, I
S2: believe the movement does depart from what the Bible teaches
S2: in those areas. For example, in terms of the gift
S2: of apostleship being active today. Well, the Bible says that
S2: that gift was foundational for the early church, requiring individuals
S2: to have physically been an eyewitness of the risen Christ
S2: and to have directly been called by Christ to serve
S2: in that capacity. Here's where I'd say that. First Corinthians
S2: nine one Paul writes, am I not an apostle? Have
S2: I not seen Jesus our Lord? That second question really
S2: is answering the first. He was an apostle, in part
S2: because he had physically seen Jesus following his resurrection. In
S2: Galatians one one, Paul even makes it more direct. He
S2: says his apostleship originated not from men, nor by a man,
S2: but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised
S2: him from the dead. So it was a direct call
S2: to be an apostle by God the Father and Jesus.
S2: Now I also have a problem with their belief in
S2: the gift of prophecy being active for today. You know,
S2: the gifts like prophecy were present in the early church.
S2: But when the Bible was completed, those gifts passed away.
S2: And in first Corinthians 13, Paul says, we know in part,
S2: we prophesy in part. But when completeness literally when that
S2: which is perfect or mature comes, that which is in
S2: part will disappear. And he says that in verse eight,
S2: there where there are prophecies, they will cease. And in
S2: the early church, about the time the church was formed,
S2: the canon of Scripture was completed. Prophecy did die out
S2: at the end of the first century. Now, even apart
S2: from all that, here's the other issue. If someone says
S2: today I have the gift of prophecy, See, I would
S2: say to them, okay, let me grant that with you.
S2: Will you grant me one thing? Will you follow what
S2: God says about a prophet? And in Deuteronomy chapter 18,
S2: God said, A prophet who presumes to speak in my name.
S2: Anything I have not commanded is to be put to death.
S2: You're to say to yourselves, how can we know a
S2: message that has not been spoken by the Lord? Well,
S2: if a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord
S2: something that doesn't take place or come true, this is
S2: a message the Lord hasn't spoken. So God basically said,
S2: if you're a prophet or if you're claiming to be
S2: a prophet, you have to be 100% accurate or be killed. Well,
S2: that's a pretty high bar, and I don't think those
S2: claiming prophecy today are willing to go to that high
S2: bar that God himself established.
S1: Mark takes us to Luke nine verse 13, asking, Is
S1: Jesus really telling the disciples, you have the ability to
S1: perform the miracle needed to feed the multitude? Yeah, and
S1: that's that.
S2: In that feeding of the 5000, I tend not to
S2: see his words that way there. I think he's really
S2: helping them see the human impossibility of them feeding so
S2: many people. I say that because of their response, they
S2: respond by saying, we only have five loaves and two
S2: fish unless we go and buy food for all this crowd.
S2: So in one sense, Jesus is feeding. Of the 5000,
S2: there is intended, I think, to parallel the miracle of
S2: God providing the manna for Israel in the wilderness. But
S2: before performing the miracle, Jesus wanted to make sure the
S2: disciples understood that feeding so many was beyond their human ability.
S1: Todd asks, what does David have in mind when he
S1: speaks of strangers in first Chronicles 29, verse 15?
S2: Yeah, in that section, he's using the phrase aliens and
S2: strangers in relationship to God. And I think what he's
S2: doing is humbling himself and the people before God. You know,
S2: citizens of a country, especially those who own property. Well,
S2: they had certain rights, but aliens and strangers didn't possess
S2: any land, and they didn't have those rights. We can
S2: see that in the Bible, in Abraham and in the
S2: book of Genesis. In Genesis 17, God told Abraham he
S2: would possess the whole land of Canaan, where you are
S2: now an alien, God says in verse eight. But when
S2: Sarah died, Abraham went to the Hittites to purchase land
S2: to bury her. And he began by saying, I'm an
S2: alien and a stranger among you. He was acknowledging his
S2: lack of standing. He didn't even own a place where
S2: he could bury his wife. It was a humble acknowledgement
S2: that he was asking a request and not a demand.
S2: It's interesting that David uses that same phrase in Psalm 39,
S2: verse 12, where he comes to God and pleads for
S2: God's gracious help. He says, for I dwell with you
S2: as an alien, a stranger as all my fathers were.
S2: Now putting all that together, what I see David's prayer
S2: there in in first Chronicles 29 doing is, is a
S2: praise for God's graciousness to people who in and of
S2: themselves had no right to demand anything. All that God
S2: had provided was an extension of his kindness to those
S2: who had as much right to demand anything as a
S2: foreigner did when appearing before a king in a foreign land.
S2: God poured out his blessing on David and the people,
S2: and David felt overwhelmed by God's graciousness.
S1: You're listening to The Land and the book segment Three
S1: Questions and Answers with our host, Charlie Dyer. I'm John Gager.
S1: Lamentations three, verse 19 contains an imperative. Remember, this listener
S1: wants to know is that remember command based on a
S1: perspective directed to the Lord.
S2: Yeah, it's a straightforward question with a little complex answer
S2: here in the Hebrew Masoretic Text. The verb there for
S2: remember is written as an imperative. That's why translations like
S2: The New American Standard translated it as a request from
S2: Jeremiah to God, with Jeremiah asking God to remember his affliction. However,
S2: my concern is that doesn't really seem to fit the
S2: overall context. The Septuagint translation there suggests, I think, how
S2: the verb should be understood as a simple indicative statement.
S2: That is where Jeremiah is saying I remember. So he's
S2: not asking God to remember. He's saying this is what
S2: he remembers. And in that case, I think the NIV
S2: translation based on the Septuagint understanding is probably more accurate.
S2: In verses 1 to 18, Jeremiah lamented his personal struggles
S2: as God judged Judah and Jerusalem for its sin, and
S2: in essence, he describes it in a way that Jerusalem
S2: could say, hey, Jeremiah, we understand what you're saying. We've
S2: experienced the same thing in verses 19 to 21. He
S2: undergoes a transformation. So in verses 19 to 20, he
S2: describes his focus on his problems and says how they
S2: caused him to bow down inside. It's almost as if
S2: he's saying that looking at his circumstances caused him to
S2: feel hopeless. But then he makes this dramatic change. He says,
S2: yet this I call to mind, and therefore I have hope.
S2: And what turned him from despondency to hope was a
S2: renewed focus on the faithfulness of God. So in the
S2: next two verses, he then moves from the singular I
S2: and me and my, describing his own experiences to apply
S2: the truth to the remnant. Because of the Lord's great
S2: love we are not consumed, for his compassions never fail.
S2: They are new every morning. Great is your faithfulness. Anyway,
S2: I take remember in verse 19, not as an imperative,
S2: a request that's spoken by Jeremiah to God, but but
S2: as an indicative statement where he's continuing to describe himself.
S1: Jeremiah chapter 49 speaks about God's destruction of Elam, which
S1: is in modern day Iran. Allen says this seems to
S1: have end times meanings of some kind. Not clear to
S1: us what kind of a throne would the Lord set
S1: up in Iran? And when does this happen? Yeah. Well, let.
S2: Me first deal with that question of God setting up
S2: the throne by saying God will set up his throne.
S2: Jeremiah is picturing God arriving there to personally supervise Elam's destruction.
S2: Jeremiah used similar imagery earlier in the book. In Jeremiah 115,
S2: God announced he was going to send the kings who
S2: would set up their thrones at the entrance to the
S2: gate of Jerusalem. That was fulfilled in chapter 39, verse three,
S2: when all the officials of the king of Babylon came
S2: and took seats in the middle gate after Jerusalem had fallen. Later,
S2: Jeremiah predicted Nebuchadnezzar would defeat Egypt and set his throne over.
S2: These stones I've buried right here in chapter 43 says
S2: that by using the imagery in chapter 49, Jeremiah is saying,
S2: God will bring his forces against Elam and will personally
S2: be there to supervise their destruction. Your second question, though,
S2: related to when this was or might be fulfilled. And
S2: while there's some evidence that Nebuchadnezzar defeated the Elamites, I
S2: don't see that being totally fulfilling this prophecy. So I
S2: do agree. I think it has somewhat of an end
S2: time fulfillment. At the same time, I don't see this
S2: destruction being total or final. Since God ends by saying,
S2: in the last days I will restore the fortunes of Elam.
S2: And that's in verse 39 there. So God used almost
S2: those same words earlier when predicting the future destruction and
S2: restoration of Moab in chapter 48 and Ammon in chapter 49.
S2: So I do see in that sense that it is
S2: a bit of a future looking prophecy.
S1: James says, if you had to name three locations in
S1: the Holy Land that are the most key regarding salvation,
S1: which locations would those be?
S2: Well, if I had to pick my top three, they'd
S2: start with Jerusalem. Trace it from Abraham's meeting with Melchizedek
S2: to the sacrifice of Isaac on Mount Moriah. The second
S2: would be the Mount of Olives. It's always near Jerusalem,
S2: but it wasn't actually part of the city. And you
S2: think of Jesus on the Mount of Olives, the Garden
S2: of Gethsemane, his ascension there, and his second coming. And
S2: the third, crazy enough would be the Dead Sea, which
S2: in Ezekiel 47 is a picture of the life that
S2: God is going to give that dead sea. He's going
S2: to turn it from death to life as an image
S2: of what he's going to do for the nation of Israel.
S1: Thank you Charlie. Why not get your question to us
S1: via email at The Land and the book@moody.edu. The land
S1: and the book@moody.edu. I'm looking forward to what Charlie has
S1: to say in his devotional. That's next here on the
S1: land and the book. You have so many choices in
S1: what you listen to these days. Thank you for making
S1: time for the land and the book. We appreciate your company.
S1: We is Charlie Dyer, our host, and John Gager here
S1: as well. I'm looking forward to Charlie's Devotional Boy, a
S1: very timely, if not sobering word from you, Charlie. Give
S1: us a hint about what we're talking about today.
S2: Yeah, we're coming up on the one year anniversary of
S2: the invasion of Hamas on October 7th, and I want
S2: to take us to Lachish and look at that event.
S1: It's a spot in Israel that has remarkable parallels, as
S1: you're about to discover. First, though, a testimony from someone
S1: else who's been to Israel and walks away with this observation.
S4: Well, thank you for asking me to comment on the trip.
S4: The whole trip is added fact to my faith. That's
S4: just know that my faith is not based on suppositions
S4: or whatever people think. I saw the places that you
S4: show me, but the thing that probably meant most to
S4: me was the Mount Bental sitting on top of of
S4: the Golan Heights and looked down on that valley of tears.
S4: Where I saw where you. Where I followed all the
S4: wars that Israel had. And you could see 1500 tanks
S4: coming up there. And what Israel had to deal with and,
S4: and I just, I just tingled. And hearing the actual
S4: artillery in the backfield, the Syrian revolution going on and
S4: then meeting the Israeli patrol earlier and then talking to him.
S4: And then one of them was from Maryland. He came
S4: over from born and raised in Maryland and came over
S4: to join the Israeli army just because he thought he
S4: that was part of his duty. I just caused me to,
S4: you know, I can't explain it, but I tingled when
S4: I when I watched and looked at all that and
S4: just added so much to all I'd been reading.
S1: Lakish and Hamas. The two share something in common. Charlie
S1: unpacked this for us.
S2: Okay, John. Well, you've likely heard the expression those who
S2: fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
S2: That lesson is nowhere more apparent than where we're now.
S2: Standing at the ancient site of Lachish during the reign
S2: of King Hezekiah. Lachish was the second largest city in
S2: the Kingdom of Judah. Only Jerusalem was larger. Located less
S2: than 17 miles from Israel's current border with Gaza, Lachish
S2: anchored the southwestern edge of the kingdom. Follow me up
S2: the ramp to the gate complex that was the main
S2: entrance into the city. Okay, we're now standing in the
S2: courtyard between the dual gates that guarded the entrance to Lachish.
S2: I suspect many of you don't even recall reading about
S2: Lachish in the Bible, in spite of its prominent history.
S2: The king of Lachish was one of the five kings
S2: who attacked Gibeon at the time of Joshua. Following his
S2: victory over the kings there, Lachish was one of the
S2: cities attacked and destroyed by Joshua. After the death of Solomon,
S2: King Rehoboam fortified Lachish to help defend his kingdom. Later,
S2: Judah's king Amaziah fled from Jerusalem to Lachish to avoid
S2: an assassination attempt, but his enemies chased him down and
S2: killed him there. Perhaps the two most troubling events at
S2: Lakish were the attacks on the city by King Sennacherib
S2: of Assyria and King Nebuchadnezzar of Judah. And today I
S2: want you to imagine what the city was like at
S2: the time of King Hezekiah, the time when it was
S2: attacked by King Sennacherib. I have a purpose for bringing
S2: you here today. This coming week is the one year
S2: anniversary of Hamas's brutal attack on Israel, just a few
S2: miles from where you're now standing. The horrors inflicted on
S2: Israel by Hamas a year ago parallel Sennacherib's attack on
S2: this city 2700 years earlier. Now, as you can see,
S2: the foundations of this massive gate complex still dominate the site.
S2: Look at the artist's drawing of the gate over there
S2: to your left. But as impressive as the drawing is,
S2: the gate itself would have looked even more imposing to
S2: any army coming to attack. Walk with me through the
S2: inner portion of the gate, and then look at the
S2: massive stone foundation Near the top of the site, you're
S2: looking at the base of a palace, the home of
S2: the regional governor, appointed by the King of Judah to
S2: oversee the area. In Micah one, the prophet mentions teams
S2: of horses at Lachish, likely referring to a division of
S2: chariots based here the ancient forerunners of today's mobile armor. You,
S2: who live in Lachish, harness the team of horses to
S2: the chariot. Micah cries out. The king of Assyria had
S2: a room in his palace at Nineveh, decorated with a
S2: carved relief showing his capture of the city of Lachish.
S2: One panel shows soldiers pulling a captured chariot out of
S2: the city, filled with looted spoils of war. At the
S2: bottom of the hill, Sennacherib himself directed the attack on Lachish.
S2: The carved relief shows the king seated on his throne
S2: near the city, and part of the inscription next to
S2: the throne identifies the one seated there as Sennacherib, king
S2: of the world, king of Assyria. In second Kings 1814 14.
S2: King Hezekiah sent this message to the king of Assyria
S2: at Lachish I have done wrong. Withdraw from me, and
S2: I will pay you whatever you demand of me. Sennacherib
S2: took the payment from Hezekiah, but then continued his attack,
S2: finally capturing Lachish. But how does Sennacherib's destruction of this
S2: ancient city offer insights into last year's attack by Hamas? Well,
S2: let me share several parallels. First, Hamas took Israel by surprise,
S2: overrunning a defensive barrier completed by Israel less than two
S2: years before. Israel's iron wall, with all its sensors, was
S2: designed to stop Hamas from tunneling underneath the barrier, but
S2: Hamas instead went through it in a mass assault. In
S2: the same way the gate and walls of Lachish were
S2: designed to be impregnable. But the Assyrians built a massive
S2: ramp and used siege engines to breach the top of
S2: the wall. Hamas used GoPro cameras to record their assault,
S2: while the Assyrians decorated a room in the king's palace
S2: in Nineveh to memorialize their attack. Hamas boasted of its
S2: vicious brutality, recording the murder, rape and torture of civilians
S2: and soldiers alike, and in doing so, they mirrored the
S2: actions of the Assyrians. Assyrians pictured captives begging for their lives,
S2: only to be beheaded. Other captives were tortured to death,
S2: their bodies gruesomely displayed for all to see. Not everyone
S2: was killed. Many were carried away into captivity. Sennacherib left
S2: several written records of his conquest. He boasted that he
S2: attacked Hezekiah, king of Judah, and took 46 of his
S2: strong walled cities, walled forts, and countless small villages. I
S2: carried away captive 200,150 people, young and old, male and
S2: female horses, mules, donkeys, camels, and oxen. Beyond counting among
S2: the more than 200,000 people taken captive were those from Lachish.
S2: Hamas abducted around 250 hostages to take back into Gaza.
S2: The only difference between the Assyrians and Hamas is that
S2: the Assyrians were able to attack the entire country, rather
S2: than just the small communities along the Gaza border. So
S2: how brutal was Hamas's attack last year? Some compare them
S2: to ISIS because of their savagery wrapped in Islamic fundamentalism,
S2: and that's a fair comparison. But to truly understand the
S2: impact of what Hamas wanted to do to Israel, I
S2: believe you need to go back to the Assyrians. Both
S2: were arrogant and boastful. Both were brutal and vicious. Both
S2: looked for new ways to torture, maim and kill. Both
S2: sought to wipe out the Jewish people, and both eventually
S2: discovered what God meant when he said, I will bless
S2: those who bless you and the one who curses you,
S2: I will curse. Hamas didn't learn the lesson. Those who
S2: fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
S2: Or we might say what goes around comes around. The
S2: Assyrians are ancient history. Hamas attack is more recent history,
S2: but both are still history. So what lesson can we
S2: take away from our visit here at Lakish? How about this?
S2: We must never forget there is a God. He cares
S2: for his people. And he will hold accountable those who
S2: seek to harm them. That's true for the Jewish people today,
S2: because God's covenant with Abraham is still in effect. And
S2: it's also true for followers of Jesus, because we've been
S2: grafted into a place of blessing through Christ's death on
S2: our behalf. He won't allow life's troubles to overwhelm you.
S2: In 1855, Joseph Scriven wrote a poem to encourage his
S2: ailing mother that became the hymn What a Friend We
S2: Have in Jesus. If you're discouraged and downhearted today, listen
S2: to the final stanza of his poem. Are we weak
S2: and heavy laden, encumbered with a load of care? Precious Savior,
S2: still our refuge. Take it to the Lord in prayer.
S2: Do thy friends despise. Forsake thee? Take it to the
S2: Lord in prayer. In his arms he'll take and shield thee.
S2: Thou wilt find a solace there. The bottom line when
S2: you face trouble, don't depend on your own strength, ability,
S2: or resources. The only sure source of protection is the
S2: eternal Rock of ages.
S1: Thank you Charlie. And if you don't know for sure
S1: that Jesus is your eternal friend, your Savior, you can
S1: have that assurance today. You can receive Christ, his forgiveness
S1: of your wrongdoing, your sins. And a volunteer would be
S1: happy to pray with you as you call 888. Need him.
S1: I'll slow that down. 888. Need him. There's nothing to buy,
S1: so there's nothing to sell. All right. It's just a
S1: frank conversation about knowing Jesus forever. Eight. Eight. Eight. Need him.
S1: And on that note, we'll say so long, but want
S1: to thank our producer, Dan Anderson, our host, Charlie Dyer,
S1: and the management at the station for carving out airtime
S1: for the land and the book. A production of Moody Radio,
S1: a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.