1 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,930 S1: Who owns the land where Israel is today? Are the 2 00:00:11,930 --> 00:00:16,310 S1: Israelis occupiers and oppressors, or does the media have it wrong? 3 00:00:16,340 --> 00:00:19,190 S1: We're about to dig into this hot topic on today's 4 00:00:19,190 --> 00:00:22,489 S1: edition of The Land and the book, along with, of course, 5 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:24,830 S1: a review of all the incredible action in the Middle 6 00:00:24,829 --> 00:00:28,250 S1: East this past week. Plus, Charlie Dyer's devotional reminds us 7 00:00:28,250 --> 00:00:31,280 S1: that the October 7th attack on Israel has an eerie 8 00:00:31,310 --> 00:00:35,330 S1: parallel in ancient scripture. Welcome to the land and the book, 9 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,879 S1: a one hour flyover of the Middle East. Our host, 10 00:00:37,909 --> 00:00:41,270 S1: Old Testament scholar and author Doctor Charlie Dyer. And I'm 11 00:00:41,270 --> 00:00:44,720 S1: John Gager. Boy, Israel has been in the news just 12 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:48,169 S1: entirely throughout the week and in fact, throughout the past year. 13 00:00:48,170 --> 00:00:50,600 S1: And as we know, Charlie, the Bible is jam packed 14 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,860 S1: with end times prophecies about epic world events, the regathering 15 00:00:54,890 --> 00:00:57,440 S1: of the Jewish people to their ancient homeland, and of course, 16 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,920 S1: Jesus return. Seems to me it's crucial for us as believers, though, 17 00:01:00,950 --> 00:01:04,310 S1: to have a proper understanding of Bible prophecy. So our 18 00:01:04,310 --> 00:01:06,830 S1: view of the future is shaped by Scripture, not just 19 00:01:06,830 --> 00:01:08,000 S1: today's headlines. Right? 20 00:01:08,030 --> 00:01:10,399 S2: It is John. And with that in mind, our friends 21 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,130 S2: at Life and Messiah have published a book titled God, 22 00:01:13,130 --> 00:01:16,280 S2: Israel and Bible Prophecy, and they're offering it to listeners 23 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,589 S2: of the land in the book for a limited time. 24 00:01:18,590 --> 00:01:21,980 S2: This informative book is focused on providing readers with a 25 00:01:21,980 --> 00:01:25,880 S2: deeper understanding and greater appreciation for what God has in 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,119 S2: store for Israel and the nations by digging into what 27 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,150 S2: the scriptures say about these issues. Now, if you're interested 28 00:01:32,150 --> 00:01:35,330 S2: in learning more about what God has in store, visit 29 00:01:35,330 --> 00:01:38,780 S2: Life in Messiah. Org and click on the Moody Radio 30 00:01:38,780 --> 00:01:41,600 S2: button there to find out how you can receive your 31 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:47,660 S2: copy of God, Israel and Bible Prophecy. That's life in messiah.org. 32 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:49,880 S1: Well, Charlie, in the middle of all the tension and 33 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,940 S1: turmoil of the week, there's something to celebrate an anniversary 34 00:01:52,970 --> 00:01:54,830 S1: here at the land of the book. We've reached our 35 00:01:54,830 --> 00:01:57,290 S1: 14th year of broadcasting. 36 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,080 S2: Isn't that amazing, John? Time has flown. Yeah. 37 00:02:00,110 --> 00:02:02,600 S1: And God has been good. And we thank you for listening. 38 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,910 S1: We thank you to the management of this station for 39 00:02:04,910 --> 00:02:07,460 S1: providing air time for the land and the book. If 40 00:02:07,460 --> 00:02:09,709 S1: it's been a while since you've said thank you to them, 41 00:02:09,710 --> 00:02:13,280 S1: please do so today in honor of our 14th birthday, well, 42 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,310 S1: let's swing our focus toward current events, Charlie. On Tuesday 43 00:02:16,310 --> 00:02:21,770 S1: of this week, Iran fired 181 ballistic missiles at Israel. 44 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,530 S1: The question is, what impact did the attack have on 45 00:02:24,530 --> 00:02:28,400 S1: the country? And perhaps more importantly, what happens next? 46 00:02:28,430 --> 00:02:31,459 S2: Yeah, and some missiles did land in Israel, but thankfully 47 00:02:31,460 --> 00:02:34,910 S2: there were no casualties. Though a Palestinian near Jericho was 48 00:02:34,910 --> 00:02:38,150 S2: killed by falling shrapnel. The main injuries to Israelis were 49 00:02:38,150 --> 00:02:40,940 S2: people who fell while running to bomb shelters, and then 50 00:02:40,940 --> 00:02:43,880 S2: two people in Tel Aviv who were slightly hurt by shrapnel. 51 00:02:43,910 --> 00:02:46,400 S2: Now it takes just 12 minutes for a missile to 52 00:02:46,430 --> 00:02:49,190 S2: travel from Iran to Israel. That's not a lot of time, 53 00:02:49,190 --> 00:02:52,669 S2: but it's enough for people to reach a place of shelter. And. 54 00:02:52,700 --> 00:02:55,760 S2: Israel's new high tech missile alert system was used for 55 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,830 S2: the very first time. it's sophisticated enough to send a 56 00:02:58,830 --> 00:03:01,830 S2: specific message to an individual cell phone in an area 57 00:03:01,830 --> 00:03:04,830 S2: that's being targeted by one of these missiles. Now, some 58 00:03:04,830 --> 00:03:08,100 S2: missiles landed at Israeli air bases, hitting office buildings and 59 00:03:08,100 --> 00:03:12,780 S2: maintenance areas, but no aircraft or major infrastructure was damaged. 60 00:03:12,780 --> 00:03:16,230 S2: Following the attack, Prime Minister Netanyahu said Iran made a 61 00:03:16,230 --> 00:03:19,320 S2: big mistake by launching it and will pay the price. 62 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,340 S2: And U.S. officials also said there would be severe consequences 63 00:03:23,340 --> 00:03:25,920 S2: for Iran's attack and that the U.S. would work with 64 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,740 S2: Israel to make that happen. The question now is what 65 00:03:28,740 --> 00:03:31,740 S2: exactly will that response look like, and how long might 66 00:03:31,770 --> 00:03:33,419 S2: it take before it's launched? 67 00:03:33,450 --> 00:03:36,300 S1: Charlie, what is the likelihood, do you think of Israel 68 00:03:36,300 --> 00:03:39,060 S1: using this moment as a chance to finally go into 69 00:03:39,090 --> 00:03:41,610 S1: Iran and attack their nuclear facilities? 70 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,520 S2: I think that is a possibility. And that's what's being 71 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,200 S2: discussed with the U.S. right now. 72 00:03:46,230 --> 00:03:49,470 S1: What is a likely scenario in your in your estimation? 73 00:03:49,500 --> 00:03:51,090 S2: I think they have to hit Iran. I think they're 74 00:03:51,090 --> 00:03:53,340 S2: going to go after some of the infrastructure there and 75 00:03:53,340 --> 00:03:57,540 S2: try and degrade the Iranian economy and certainly some of 76 00:03:57,540 --> 00:04:01,770 S2: their military aspects. But what that will be that's, I think, 77 00:04:01,770 --> 00:04:03,990 S2: a matter of discussion, and I have a feeling that 78 00:04:04,020 --> 00:04:05,970 S2: Israel will want to do more than the U.S. will 79 00:04:05,970 --> 00:04:07,050 S2: allow them to do. 80 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,410 S1: You started last week's lead story on the conflict between 81 00:04:10,410 --> 00:04:13,710 S1: Israel and Hezbollah by saying it's hard to stay current 82 00:04:13,710 --> 00:04:16,620 S1: on everything taking place, and that has certainly remained true 83 00:04:16,620 --> 00:04:18,960 S1: over this past week as well. So what has been 84 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,200 S1: happening there and what can we expect in the coming days? 85 00:04:22,230 --> 00:04:25,350 S2: Well, you know, to say that the attack against Hezbollah's leader, Nasrallah, 86 00:04:25,350 --> 00:04:29,159 S2: sent shockwaves throughout the Middle East is an understatement. That's 87 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,560 S2: one of the reasons that Iran just launched the attack. 88 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,740 S2: It did. But from the exploding pagers to the exploding 89 00:04:34,740 --> 00:04:38,339 S2: walkie talkies to the elimination of an entire senior level 90 00:04:38,339 --> 00:04:41,820 S2: of Hezbollah's leaders at one time to the destruction of 91 00:04:41,820 --> 00:04:46,169 S2: Hezbollah's main underground headquarters, where Nasrallah was present, show a 92 00:04:46,170 --> 00:04:51,299 S2: level of intelligence gathering sophistication and dedicated, detailed planning that 93 00:04:51,300 --> 00:04:54,539 S2: has frightened Israel's enemies. That secret bunker was thought to 94 00:04:54,540 --> 00:04:57,359 S2: be bomb proof, and it was completely wiped out, along 95 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,330 S2: with five apartment buildings under which it had been constructed. 96 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,560 S2: No one in the headquarters survived. Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini was 97 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,039 S2: rushed to an undisclosed location in Tehran following the news 98 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:12,060 S2: of the strike, apparently fearing a similar strike against him. Now, 99 00:05:12,060 --> 00:05:13,830 S2: in spite of many in the West calling for a 100 00:05:13,830 --> 00:05:17,790 S2: cease fire, Israel has continued to press its offensive. Several 101 00:05:17,790 --> 00:05:22,409 S2: additional regional commanders were eliminated, along with numerous storage facilities 102 00:05:22,410 --> 00:05:25,950 S2: holding missiles and launchers. Hezbollah has tried to respond, but 103 00:05:25,950 --> 00:05:29,520 S2: so far the response has been limited and uncoordinated because 104 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,490 S2: of the damage done to their system of command and control, 105 00:05:32,490 --> 00:05:34,950 S2: and because of the number of rockets and launchers that 106 00:05:34,950 --> 00:05:38,520 S2: have already been eliminated. The war against Hezbollah has entered 107 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,970 S2: a new phase, as Israel launched a ground offensive in Lebanon, 108 00:05:41,970 --> 00:05:46,050 S2: with the apparent goal of clearing Hezbollah's forces and infrastructure 109 00:05:46,050 --> 00:05:49,409 S2: from along their northern border. The one thing Israel doesn't 110 00:05:49,410 --> 00:05:51,450 S2: want to do right now, though, is get involved in 111 00:05:51,450 --> 00:05:55,380 S2: a protracted ground war in Lebanon. That happened twice before, 112 00:05:55,380 --> 00:05:57,210 S2: and that's not a good thing for Israel. 113 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,930 S1: Charlie also noted some activity in the war against Hamas. 114 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,020 S1: Israelis have been going in there with with a big passion. 115 00:06:04,050 --> 00:06:07,050 S2: Yeah, the war with Hamas continues, even though it's been 116 00:06:07,050 --> 00:06:10,020 S2: shuffled to the back of the page with everything else happening. 117 00:06:10,020 --> 00:06:12,390 S2: But the two key goals remain the return of the 118 00:06:12,390 --> 00:06:17,070 S2: hostages and the elimination of Hamas leadership, especially Sinwar. It's 119 00:06:17,070 --> 00:06:20,790 S2: clear Israel is trying to decapitate Hamas like they have Hezbollah, 120 00:06:20,790 --> 00:06:23,910 S2: and to disrupt their system of command and control. Now, 121 00:06:23,910 --> 00:06:26,729 S2: in response to a ballistic missile fired from Yemen by 122 00:06:26,730 --> 00:06:30,180 S2: the Houthis, Israel launched a second major attack against them. 123 00:06:30,210 --> 00:06:33,120 S2: This time, they attacked another port where the Iran backed 124 00:06:33,150 --> 00:06:36,720 S2: group was receiving arms and oil. The message to Yemen, 125 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,630 S2: which was also intended for Iran, by the way, is 126 00:06:39,630 --> 00:06:42,690 S2: that Israel has the ability to conduct major strikes at 127 00:06:42,690 --> 00:06:46,529 S2: any distance near or far against those threatening them. And 128 00:06:46,529 --> 00:06:48,659 S2: as long as we're looking at the area. Fighting has 129 00:06:48,660 --> 00:06:51,540 S2: also continued in the West Bank. Last Sunday night, a 130 00:06:51,570 --> 00:06:55,800 S2: firefight in Nablus injured four Israeli soldiers while killing one 131 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,890 S2: terrorist and wounding another. And then on Tuesday, two terrorists 132 00:06:58,890 --> 00:07:02,160 S2: from Hebron attacked civilians in Jaffa with a rifle and 133 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,580 S2: a knife, killing seven before they themselves were killed by 134 00:07:05,610 --> 00:07:08,880 S2: a security guard and by armed civilians. Iran is still 135 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,180 S2: the puppet master that's encouraged all these groups to attack. 136 00:07:12,390 --> 00:07:15,840 S2: They've been shamed by Israel, which has demonstrated its ability 137 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,600 S2: to attack their allies at will. And Iran is hoping 138 00:07:18,630 --> 00:07:21,120 S2: to use their missiles, as well as those supplied to 139 00:07:21,150 --> 00:07:24,390 S2: their allies, to force Israel to back down. But if 140 00:07:24,390 --> 00:07:27,330 S2: that's the message they're trying to send, Israel doesn't appear 141 00:07:27,330 --> 00:07:28,230 S2: to be listening. 142 00:07:28,260 --> 00:07:30,750 S1: You're listening to The Land and the book from Moody 143 00:07:30,750 --> 00:07:34,260 S1: Radio with our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, noted Old Testament scholar, 144 00:07:34,260 --> 00:07:37,620 S1: Middle East Authority. We're looking at the news that's based 145 00:07:37,620 --> 00:07:39,990 S1: in the Middle East this week. Well, this week also 146 00:07:39,990 --> 00:07:44,010 S1: marked the start of the year, 5785 on the Hebrew calendar. 147 00:07:44,010 --> 00:07:47,370 S1: And as they do every year, Israel's Central Bureau of 148 00:07:47,370 --> 00:07:51,330 S1: Statistics released figures on the country's current Population. What can 149 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,490 S1: we learn from those latest numbers, Charlie? 150 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,739 S2: Well, you know, I always find these fascinating. At the 151 00:07:55,740 --> 00:07:58,740 S2: start of the new year, the population of Israel stood 152 00:07:58,740 --> 00:08:04,800 S2: at 9,999,000. The population is expected to top 10 million 153 00:08:04,830 --> 00:08:07,860 S2: within a matter of weeks. Now, of that total, almost 154 00:08:07,860 --> 00:08:12,450 S2: 7.7 million are Jews and 2.1 million are Arabs. The 155 00:08:12,450 --> 00:08:17,250 S2: overall population increased by over 118,000 during the year. Of 156 00:08:17,250 --> 00:08:20,430 S2: those who made Aliya or who emigrated into Israel, the 157 00:08:20,430 --> 00:08:24,870 S2: largest number came from Russia, the United States, Canada and France, 158 00:08:24,870 --> 00:08:27,420 S2: and a third of the new immigrants were young people 159 00:08:27,450 --> 00:08:31,800 S2: between the ages of 18 and 35. Worldwide, the total 160 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:36,810 S2: Jewish population is estimated to now stand at 15.8 million, 161 00:08:36,809 --> 00:08:39,810 S2: so almost half of the world's Jews are in Israel. 162 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,809 S2: The bottom line is that Israel has continued to experience 163 00:08:42,809 --> 00:08:47,370 S2: population growth in spite of political unrest and war, and 164 00:08:47,370 --> 00:08:49,679 S2: that has to be an encouragement to them. 165 00:08:49,710 --> 00:08:53,579 S1: Well, the global demand for chocolate has been increasing by 5% 166 00:08:53,580 --> 00:08:58,710 S1: every year. But unsustainable growing practices are threatening the long 167 00:08:58,740 --> 00:09:02,250 S1: term survival of this sweet treat. Thankfully, those scientists and 168 00:09:02,250 --> 00:09:05,730 S1: amazing Israel are coming to the rescue. What are Israel's 169 00:09:05,730 --> 00:09:10,290 S1: technological chocolatiers doing to preserve the world's supply of chocolate? 170 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,420 S2: Well, you know, listeners might not even be aware of 171 00:09:12,420 --> 00:09:18,600 S2: the fact that $133 billion chocolate industry is facing a crisis. 70% 172 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,150 S2: of the world's cocoa beans are grown in West Africa. 173 00:09:21,179 --> 00:09:24,300 S2: Land there has been deforested to plant new cocoa trees, 174 00:09:24,300 --> 00:09:28,319 S2: causing serious environmental damage. And yet, because of disease and 175 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,189 S2: climate change, the production of cocoa beans there continues to fall. 176 00:09:32,190 --> 00:09:34,890 S2: And that's where the scientists in Israel might just be 177 00:09:34,890 --> 00:09:37,229 S2: coming to the rescue in the nick of time. A 178 00:09:37,230 --> 00:09:41,670 S2: company called Celeste Bio has developed a process to cultivate 179 00:09:41,670 --> 00:09:46,439 S2: cocoa in the laboratory that's indistinguishable from farmed cocoa. The 180 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,320 S2: lab cocoa is grown from just a couple beans and 181 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,740 S2: can be repeatedly produced. There are other companies working on 182 00:09:52,740 --> 00:09:56,130 S2: similar processes, but Celeste Bio is the first to produce 183 00:09:56,130 --> 00:10:00,120 S2: chocolate grade cocoa butter in just seven days. They can 184 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,360 S2: take cells from 1 or 2 cocoa beans and mature 185 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,030 S2: them so that the butter can be harvested, and at 186 00:10:06,030 --> 00:10:10,319 S2: no stage does the process involve genetic modification. The bioreactor 187 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,930 S2: becomes the forest, if you will, for growing the beans. 188 00:10:12,929 --> 00:10:17,790 S2: The process also eliminates any vulnerability to pests and disease. 189 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,420 S2: Celeste Bio is currently focusing on expanding this operation, and 190 00:10:21,420 --> 00:10:24,449 S2: when that happens, I'm sure all of us chocoholics will 191 00:10:24,450 --> 00:10:27,960 S2: rejoice at the innovation coming from amazing Israel. Well, that's. 192 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,690 S1: A bit of a sweet ending to a rather disturbing 193 00:10:30,690 --> 00:10:33,690 S1: look at current events. Thank you though for all those insights, Charlie. 194 00:10:33,690 --> 00:10:36,480 S1: Appreciate you staying on top of that, and we're looking 195 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,370 S1: forward to a conversation with you on the other side 196 00:10:38,370 --> 00:10:41,490 S1: of this break, looking at who owns the land. We'll 197 00:10:41,490 --> 00:10:44,190 S1: dig deep into that. Questions. You need to hear. Answers 198 00:10:44,190 --> 00:10:46,949 S1: you must hang on to next on the land and 199 00:10:46,950 --> 00:11:03,330 S1: the book. Here we are at the doorstep of the 200 00:11:03,330 --> 00:11:07,349 S1: one year anniversary of the Hamas attack on Israel. What 201 00:11:07,350 --> 00:11:10,890 S1: are the most important takeaways from this conflict? More importantly, 202 00:11:10,890 --> 00:11:13,050 S1: is there any light at the end of this very 203 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:17,460 S1: dark tunnel? And since we're asking questions, who owns the land, 204 00:11:17,490 --> 00:11:21,390 S1: the land where Israel sits today? Some believers offer unwavering 205 00:11:21,390 --> 00:11:25,410 S1: but sometimes uninformed support for Israel. Other Christians say the 206 00:11:25,410 --> 00:11:29,400 S1: Palestinians are being treated unfairly. Just what is the history 207 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,030 S1: of this conflict? We'll dig into all of that next. Hey, 208 00:11:33,030 --> 00:11:36,030 S1: welcome to segment two of The Land and the book. 209 00:11:36,059 --> 00:11:39,059 S1: Before we crank up the heat on today's conversation, let's 210 00:11:39,090 --> 00:11:43,230 S1: enjoy an encouraging idea about sharing Christ with a Jewish friend. 211 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,980 S1: As a believer in Jesus, do you celebrate Rosh Hashanah? 212 00:11:47,010 --> 00:11:49,890 S1: Why not? If your answer is no? Well, let's ask 213 00:11:49,890 --> 00:11:52,560 S1: Roy Schwarz of Chosen People Ministries. Roy. 214 00:11:52,590 --> 00:11:55,199 S3: Well, it's a biblical time, Rosh Hashanah. So it's a 215 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,559 S3: time where it's one of God's appointed times for us 216 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,920 S3: as believers. It points to the rapture of the church, 217 00:12:02,010 --> 00:12:04,500 S3: where the trump of God shall blow and the dead 218 00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:08,699 S3: in Messiah will rise. Leviticus 23 talks about you shall 219 00:12:08,700 --> 00:12:13,439 S3: have a rest, a memorial by blowing of trumpets. And 220 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,220 S3: what greater reminder of the fact that what we as 221 00:12:17,220 --> 00:12:20,160 S3: Christians are waiting for is a rest that remains a 222 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,440 S3: Sabbath rest for the people of God, and that ultimate 223 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,930 S3: rest will be the rapture of the church, when the 224 00:12:24,929 --> 00:12:26,880 S3: trump of God shall blow and the dead in Messiah 225 00:12:26,910 --> 00:12:30,449 S3: shall rise, and we shall be alive with the Lord evermore. 226 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,459 S3: So Rosh Hashanah is a great time. Well, give me a. 227 00:12:32,460 --> 00:12:34,949 S1: Quick pointer here. How do I turn the corner from 228 00:12:34,950 --> 00:12:37,980 S1: what a typical Jewish response or definition of Rosh Hashanah 229 00:12:37,980 --> 00:12:41,100 S1: would be to what we understand biblically of the future. 230 00:12:41,130 --> 00:12:44,490 S3: Well, it's something new for Jewish people. It's a new year. 231 00:12:44,490 --> 00:12:48,000 S3: It's a time of preparation, time to prepare our hearts 232 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,140 S3: for Yom Kippur. It's a time of self-examination and to 233 00:12:52,170 --> 00:12:54,600 S3: be ready for atonement. 234 00:12:54,630 --> 00:12:59,849 S1: Roy Schwarz with Chosen People Ministries. Thank you. Without question. 235 00:12:59,850 --> 00:13:02,970 S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer is a real Middle East expert, not 236 00:13:02,970 --> 00:13:06,060 S1: a political pundit. He's been to the Holy Land more 237 00:13:06,059 --> 00:13:10,020 S1: than 100 times. Naturally, he's also made repeated trips to 238 00:13:10,050 --> 00:13:13,170 S1: Jordan and Turkey. And did I mention he was twice 239 00:13:13,170 --> 00:13:16,260 S1: an invited guest to the country of Iraq? Few people 240 00:13:16,260 --> 00:13:19,679 S1: alive today understand the complexity of the Middle East, like 241 00:13:19,710 --> 00:13:22,320 S1: our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer. You know and love him 242 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,450 S1: as the host of our weekly broadcast, The Land and 243 00:13:24,450 --> 00:13:27,270 S1: the book. And he's written extensively about the Middle East. 244 00:13:27,270 --> 00:13:30,990 S1: In fact, Charlie literally helped write the book on this 245 00:13:31,020 --> 00:13:34,590 S1: issue at stake. Today, he has updated Stanley Ellison's Moody 246 00:13:34,620 --> 00:13:38,610 S1: Publishers release, Who Owns the Land? Well, thanks for sitting 247 00:13:38,610 --> 00:13:41,430 S1: down with us today. We need your perspectives, Charlie. Hey. 248 00:13:41,429 --> 00:13:44,280 S2: Thanks, John. Anytime with you. Is time well spent? 249 00:13:44,309 --> 00:13:46,740 S1: Well, let's start with a one year look back at 250 00:13:46,740 --> 00:13:50,130 S1: the war. What are the most important insights or lessons 251 00:13:50,130 --> 00:13:52,230 S1: we should take away from this war? 252 00:13:52,290 --> 00:13:55,410 S2: For us, I think it's two things. One, it's a 253 00:13:55,410 --> 00:13:59,280 S2: reminder why Hamas refuses to allow Israel to exist as 254 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,680 S2: a nation. This, at the very heart of it, is 255 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,250 S2: a religious conflict, not a political, not a social conflict. 256 00:14:05,250 --> 00:14:08,760 S2: It's a conflict between two views of life and two 257 00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:12,450 S2: gods that are diametrically opposed to one another. And that's 258 00:14:12,450 --> 00:14:14,820 S2: why it's so hard to solve. And and frankly, that 259 00:14:14,850 --> 00:14:16,590 S2: leads to the second point, which is the reason the 260 00:14:16,590 --> 00:14:18,750 S2: West has had such a difficult time trying to get 261 00:14:18,750 --> 00:14:20,910 S2: a handle on this is we view things from a 262 00:14:20,910 --> 00:14:24,150 S2: secular perspective. And when you view the Middle East, especially 263 00:14:24,150 --> 00:14:27,210 S2: this conflict, you've got to view it with religious eyes. 264 00:14:27,210 --> 00:14:29,520 S1: Is there any light at the end of this very 265 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,739 S1: dark tunnel? People want to know, you know. 266 00:14:32,250 --> 00:14:35,250 S2: Long range view. Yes. Because we know Jesus is coming 267 00:14:35,250 --> 00:14:39,900 S2: back and he's going to solve the problems short term. No. 268 00:14:39,900 --> 00:14:42,310 S2: And that's part of the problem that gets us so discouraged. 269 00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:45,340 S2: We want the problem. That's like a television program to 270 00:14:45,370 --> 00:14:48,550 S2: be resolved within 60 minutes, you know? Short term solution 271 00:14:48,550 --> 00:14:52,450 S2: that solves it. And everybody lives happily ever after. And unfortunately, 272 00:14:52,450 --> 00:14:55,360 S2: there is no short term solution to this. There are 273 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,600 S2: winners and there are losers, but there's no way for compromise, 274 00:14:58,630 --> 00:15:00,250 S2: at least in the short term. 275 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,430 S1: Well, let's pivot toward a discussion that is very much 276 00:15:03,460 --> 00:15:06,040 S1: at the heart of the coverage of this war. Who 277 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,670 S1: owns the land? Take us to a simple explanation of 278 00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:13,000 S1: God's agreement with Israel to give them the land forever. 279 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:13,900 S1: And that's key. 280 00:15:13,930 --> 00:15:15,700 S2: Yeah. It is. And I think we've got to start 281 00:15:15,700 --> 00:15:17,950 S2: with one key point. The real owner of the land 282 00:15:17,980 --> 00:15:22,270 S2: isn't Israel or the Palestinians, it's God. In Psalm 24, 283 00:15:22,300 --> 00:15:24,460 S2: the psalmist wrote, the earth is the Lord's and everything 284 00:15:24,460 --> 00:15:26,710 S2: in it. God is the one who owns it all. 285 00:15:26,740 --> 00:15:30,520 S2: And in Leviticus 25, when God was speaking to Israel 286 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,580 S2: regarding the year of Jubilee, he says the land must 287 00:15:33,580 --> 00:15:36,370 S2: not be sold permanently because the land is mine and 288 00:15:36,370 --> 00:15:39,250 S2: you're but aliens and my tenants. So God makes it 289 00:15:39,250 --> 00:15:42,130 S2: very clear he's the ultimate owner of the land. Now 290 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,620 S2: in terms of what God did with that land in 291 00:15:44,620 --> 00:15:47,470 S2: Genesis 12. God spoke to Abraham and he said to 292 00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:50,800 S2: your offspring, I will give this land. Uh, the next 293 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:52,750 S2: chapter he says the same thing again. He says, walk 294 00:15:52,750 --> 00:15:55,840 S2: through the land. I'm giving it to you. Two chapters later, 295 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,020 S2: Genesis 15, God cuts a covenant. He signs on the 296 00:15:59,020 --> 00:16:01,660 S2: bottom line, if you will, of an agreement. And he says, 297 00:16:01,660 --> 00:16:03,550 S2: there on that day the Lord made a covenant with 298 00:16:03,580 --> 00:16:06,280 S2: Abraham and says to your descendants, I give this land. 299 00:16:06,310 --> 00:16:09,580 S2: Now Abraham had Ishmael, and then later he has Isaac. 300 00:16:09,580 --> 00:16:13,300 S2: So which one gets the land? Well, in Genesis 17, 301 00:16:13,330 --> 00:16:16,300 S2: God says, I'm going to bless Ishmael. I'll make him fruitful. 302 00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:19,630 S2: I'll greatly increase his numbers. But my covenant I'll establish 303 00:16:19,630 --> 00:16:23,920 S2: with Isaac. Later in Genesis 28, God says to Jacob, 304 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:25,600 S2: I'm with you, and I'm going to give you and 305 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,810 S2: your descendants the land. So the land promise from God 306 00:16:28,810 --> 00:16:31,450 S2: was to Abraham and his descendants. But then it's limited 307 00:16:31,450 --> 00:16:34,510 S2: by God to Isaac, to Jacob, who of course became 308 00:16:34,510 --> 00:16:36,790 S2: Israel and the 12 tribes of Israel. 309 00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:39,640 S1: And the year this would have taken place is approximately 310 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:40,900 S1: what on the timeline. Charlie? 311 00:16:40,930 --> 00:16:45,040 S2: Well, about 2000 BC is when Abraham was living. So 312 00:16:45,070 --> 00:16:48,520 S2: it's 2000 years before the time of Jesus. What's amazing 313 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,090 S2: is how many times that's reaffirmed 600 years later. God 314 00:16:52,090 --> 00:16:55,120 S2: reaffirms it to Moses in the book of Deuteronomy. And 315 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,540 S2: then 700 years later, God reaffirms it by Micah the prophet. 316 00:16:58,570 --> 00:17:00,970 S2: In fact, the last verses in the book of Micah. 317 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,760 S2: God promised it to Abraham and pledged it on oath. 318 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,160 S2: And then in the time of Paul in the New Testament, 319 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,580 S2: Romans 11 says, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 320 00:17:09,580 --> 00:17:13,060 S2: because God's gift and his call are irrevocable. In essence, 321 00:17:13,060 --> 00:17:15,460 S2: Paul saying, God made a promise and he doesn't go 322 00:17:15,460 --> 00:17:19,000 S2: back on his word. So this 2000 year development of 323 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,420 S2: a promise and it constantly says exactly the same thing. 324 00:17:22,420 --> 00:17:25,810 S1: That's Doctor Charlie Dyer, who's updated the Moody publisher's book 325 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,900 S1: Who Owns the Land? You say that Jewish people have 326 00:17:28,900 --> 00:17:32,980 S1: continuously lived in Israel in lesser or greater numbers ever 327 00:17:32,980 --> 00:17:36,220 S1: since then. Why is that such an important point? Well, that's. 328 00:17:36,220 --> 00:17:38,890 S2: Crucial because if people listen to the arguments being made. Now, 329 00:17:38,890 --> 00:17:41,560 S2: one of the arguments is that Israel and the Jews 330 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:46,330 S2: are Western colonizers. They stole the land from the indigenous Palestinians. 331 00:17:46,330 --> 00:17:49,359 S2: So they equate modern Israel with what the British did 332 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,970 S2: in like India or South Africa, or like what the 333 00:17:51,970 --> 00:17:54,940 S2: French did in North Africa. But the Jews are not 334 00:17:54,970 --> 00:17:58,990 S2: European colonizers. They were the indigenous people who were ethnically 335 00:17:58,990 --> 00:18:02,409 S2: cleansed from the land by the Assyrians, by the Babylonians, 336 00:18:02,410 --> 00:18:05,290 S2: later by the Romans. But even then a remnant always 337 00:18:05,290 --> 00:18:07,930 S2: remained in the land. And so while they were scattered, 338 00:18:07,930 --> 00:18:10,930 S2: the focus was always on returning to their homeland. In fact, 339 00:18:10,930 --> 00:18:13,780 S2: they would say next year in Jerusalem, as part of 340 00:18:13,780 --> 00:18:16,600 S2: their ritual for Passover and the Day of Atonement. So 341 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,959 S2: they're not foreign occupiers. They're returning to the land of 342 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,750 S2: their ancestors, a land promised to them by God, and 343 00:18:22,750 --> 00:18:25,630 S2: a land where a remnant has lived for all those years. 344 00:18:25,630 --> 00:18:29,110 S1: One of the more confusing things for lesser informed minds 345 00:18:29,140 --> 00:18:31,780 S1: is the idea that Israel was for so many years 346 00:18:31,780 --> 00:18:37,600 S1: called Palestine. So didn't the Israelis displace Palestinians, and if so, 347 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,990 S1: Palestinian people are without a country. Or it appears if 348 00:18:41,020 --> 00:18:43,510 S1: you read the media, Charlie, untangle this for us. 349 00:18:43,540 --> 00:18:45,850 S2: Oh, man. Yeah, it's one of those that just goes 350 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,859 S2: on and on and you wonder, how do we get 351 00:18:47,859 --> 00:18:49,720 S2: it together? So here's what we need to know. The 352 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:54,010 S2: word Palestine was not an ethnic description. In fact, it 353 00:18:54,010 --> 00:18:56,740 S2: was a geographical term given to the land by the 354 00:18:56,740 --> 00:19:00,130 S2: Romans back in the second century. So the people who 355 00:19:00,130 --> 00:19:03,130 S2: lived in the land were called Palestinians in the same way. 356 00:19:03,130 --> 00:19:07,510 S2: I guess if someone lives in Virginia, they're called Virginians. Genetically, 357 00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:10,540 S2: the Palestinians, as we think of them today, are a 358 00:19:10,540 --> 00:19:13,929 S2: mixture of every group who came through that land through history. 359 00:19:14,020 --> 00:19:17,080 S2: The Romans were there, and the Arabs, the Jewish remnant 360 00:19:17,109 --> 00:19:20,470 S2: who were there. In fact, the Jewish newspaper today called 361 00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:25,330 S2: the Jerusalem Post up until the 1900s was the Palestine 362 00:19:25,330 --> 00:19:28,359 S2: Post because it was in the land of Palestine. But 363 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,840 S2: the Palestinian people are really a mixture ethnically, of all 364 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,110 S2: the groups who came through during that time. But that's 365 00:19:35,109 --> 00:19:38,740 S2: why we have to understand Palestine and Palestinian referred not 366 00:19:38,740 --> 00:19:41,170 S2: to the people, but to a land area. Up until 367 00:19:41,170 --> 00:19:42,040 S2: very recently. 368 00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:46,030 S1: Okay, let's go back to 636 and 637 A.D. this 369 00:19:46,030 --> 00:19:49,510 S1: is the Muslim siege of Jerusalem. And they claim that 370 00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:53,650 S1: because Islamic forces conquered the Jewish people, Israel's land is 371 00:19:53,650 --> 00:19:56,919 S1: now theirs forever, according to their scriptures. Seems to me 372 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,619 S1: the real conflict here is simply whose book is the book? 373 00:19:59,650 --> 00:20:00,640 S1: Your thoughts? 374 00:20:00,850 --> 00:20:04,600 S2: You're exactly right. In fact, even more significantly, whose God 375 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,900 S2: is the real God? Because the God of Islam presented 376 00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:10,330 S2: in the Quran isn't the same as the God of 377 00:20:10,330 --> 00:20:13,149 S2: Israel presented in the Bible. And and the God of 378 00:20:13,150 --> 00:20:16,090 S2: Israel said to Jacob, this land is yours and your 379 00:20:16,090 --> 00:20:20,980 S2: descendants forever. The God of the Quran, Allah said, you've 380 00:20:20,980 --> 00:20:23,560 S2: conquered this, and land conquered for me belongs to me. 381 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,100 S2: And I've dispossessed the Jewish people for their lack of belief. 382 00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:29,710 S2: So which God really is God? And that's at the 383 00:20:29,710 --> 00:20:30,820 S2: heart of the conflict. 384 00:20:30,850 --> 00:20:33,310 S1: All right, let's fast forward to modern times. Give us 385 00:20:33,310 --> 00:20:36,340 S1: a 62nd summary of the founding of the modern State 386 00:20:36,340 --> 00:20:39,070 S1: of Israel in plain English. And why didn't the United 387 00:20:39,070 --> 00:20:42,370 S1: Nations also create a state for Arabs living in that region? 388 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,400 S2: Well, you know, in World War One, the allies promised 389 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,820 S2: the Jewish people a national homeland. It's the Balfour Declaration 390 00:20:48,820 --> 00:20:51,790 S2: is what it's called. They also promised the Arab leaders 391 00:20:51,790 --> 00:20:54,010 S2: that they could have their own country. In essence, they 392 00:20:54,010 --> 00:20:56,620 S2: promised the same land to two different groups, which is 393 00:20:56,619 --> 00:20:59,109 S2: a major problem. But they promised it to the Arabs 394 00:20:59,109 --> 00:21:01,390 S2: if they would drive out the Turks. The British were 395 00:21:01,390 --> 00:21:03,250 S2: given the mandate to bring it all about, and the 396 00:21:03,250 --> 00:21:05,800 S2: first thing they did was carved out the modern country 397 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,250 S2: of Jordan, which was originally part of the Promised Land. 398 00:21:09,430 --> 00:21:11,680 S2: So they did give a country to the Arabs, and 399 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,340 S2: that's the country we know today as Jordan. Then in 1947, 400 00:21:15,369 --> 00:21:18,340 S2: the UN voted to partition the remaining land into two 401 00:21:18,369 --> 00:21:21,700 S2: more countries, one for Israel and one for the Palestinians. 402 00:21:21,730 --> 00:21:23,800 S2: Now it was far less than what had been promised 403 00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:27,040 S2: to Israel, but they reluctantly accepted the vote. But the 404 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,730 S2: Arab countries and the Palestinians rejected it, refusing to accept 405 00:21:30,730 --> 00:21:33,580 S2: any state of Israel. Well, After that fighting was over 406 00:21:33,580 --> 00:21:37,689 S2: in 1948, Israel ended up with its country, but Jordan 407 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,600 S2: annexed the West Bank and made it part of their country, 408 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,080 S2: and Egypt took over Gaza. So the Palestinians ended up 409 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,990 S2: with no country, only because of the war that came 410 00:21:46,990 --> 00:21:49,390 S2: when they opposed Israel having its own country. 411 00:21:49,420 --> 00:21:52,900 S1: Well, often ignored or distorted in the conversation is the 412 00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:56,890 S1: expulsion of Arabs from Israel and Jews from Arab countries. 413 00:21:56,890 --> 00:21:58,780 S1: Just what are the facts here? And how did they 414 00:21:58,780 --> 00:22:00,340 S1: come to bear on this conversation? 415 00:22:00,369 --> 00:22:03,669 S2: Yeah, you'll often hear and symbols used of a key. 416 00:22:03,850 --> 00:22:07,150 S2: There were about 600,000, and nobody knows the exact number, 417 00:22:07,150 --> 00:22:10,900 S2: but about 600,000 Arabs who lost their home when the 418 00:22:10,900 --> 00:22:14,949 S2: 1948 War of Independence took place. What people don't also 419 00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:19,419 S2: understand is that an even greater number, about 700 to 900,000. Again, 420 00:22:19,570 --> 00:22:23,050 S2: nobody knows the exact number of Jews who lost their 421 00:22:23,050 --> 00:22:25,840 S2: homes in Arab countries. They were expelled from Arab countries 422 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,110 S2: with with just the clothes on their back in many cases. Now, 423 00:22:29,109 --> 00:22:32,050 S2: the difference between the two. Israel took in those Jewish 424 00:22:32,050 --> 00:22:37,000 S2: refugees and helped them rebuild their lives. But the Palestinian refugees, 425 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,240 S2: the Arab refugees who fled the land, were not given 426 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,820 S2: the same kind of treatment by their Arab host neighbors. 427 00:22:42,820 --> 00:22:47,050 S2: They were put into refugee camps, really squalid slums, and 428 00:22:47,050 --> 00:22:49,960 S2: forced to live there. They weren't given citizenship or weren't 429 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,270 S2: allowed to integrate with those society. And that's where the 430 00:22:52,270 --> 00:22:55,600 S2: problem of Palestinian refugees comes from today. So there was 431 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,200 S2: almost equal numbers of refugees on both sides. You can't 432 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,449 S2: unscramble an egg. The real question is what do you 433 00:23:01,450 --> 00:23:04,480 S2: do with those people after that problem has formed and 434 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,930 S2: Israel took the time to integrate their refugees? The Arab 435 00:23:07,930 --> 00:23:09,220 S2: countries did not. 436 00:23:09,250 --> 00:23:12,490 S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer has updated the Moody Publishers book Who 437 00:23:12,490 --> 00:23:15,220 S1: Owns the Land? Let me ask you point blank, is 438 00:23:15,220 --> 00:23:18,880 S1: Israel a nation of occupiers? Why or why not? 439 00:23:18,910 --> 00:23:22,210 S2: The short answer is they're not. And the reason? First, 440 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,820 S2: they have a historic claim to the land. They're the 441 00:23:24,820 --> 00:23:27,729 S2: only nation on Earth with a title deed given to 442 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,470 S2: a land that was given to them by God himself, 443 00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:33,080 S2: they came back to their homeland to avoid the horrible 444 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,380 S2: persecution they were experiencing at the hands of others, not 445 00:23:36,380 --> 00:23:39,830 S2: only World War two and the Holocaust, but in Russia, 446 00:23:39,830 --> 00:23:42,379 S2: in the Arab countries, they had to come back to 447 00:23:42,410 --> 00:23:45,860 S2: find a place where they could find safety. They originally 448 00:23:45,859 --> 00:23:48,500 S2: hoped to live in harmony with their Arab neighbors until 449 00:23:48,500 --> 00:23:52,490 S2: that proved untenable. But in reality, they're not occupiers. They're 450 00:23:52,490 --> 00:23:54,860 S2: people returning to their land where they had been ethnically 451 00:23:54,859 --> 00:23:55,910 S2: cleansed before. 452 00:23:55,940 --> 00:24:00,379 S1: Why do younger evangelicals tend to side consistently with Palestinians 453 00:24:00,380 --> 00:24:03,710 S1: rather than Israelis? And why don't you speak directly to them? 454 00:24:03,710 --> 00:24:06,379 S1: What would you have them understand differently? 455 00:24:06,410 --> 00:24:08,480 S2: Well, I'd probably say something. In fact, I will say 456 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,719 S2: something to them. You don't know the history or the culture. 457 00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:14,900 S2: You get your information and your world view from social media, 458 00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:17,510 S2: which is distorted. You really need to go back to 459 00:24:17,540 --> 00:24:21,080 S2: the Bible to reverse the trend. Start with the Bible. 460 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,720 S2: And in second Timothy three, Paul describes the state of 461 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,300 S2: the world in the last days, and he brackets it 462 00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:28,729 S2: with three of the greatest statements on the importance of 463 00:24:28,740 --> 00:24:31,679 S2: God's Word. You know, in second Timothy 215 he says, 464 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,899 S2: present yourself to God as workers who don't need to 465 00:24:33,930 --> 00:24:37,290 S2: be ashamed, who correctly handled the word of truth. In 466 00:24:37,290 --> 00:24:40,619 S2: chapter three says, All Scripture is God breathed and profitable 467 00:24:40,619 --> 00:24:44,429 S2: for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness. And then 468 00:24:44,430 --> 00:24:46,890 S2: in chapter four he says, in light of Christ's return, 469 00:24:46,890 --> 00:24:50,429 S2: proclaim the word whether it's convenient or not. But the 470 00:24:50,430 --> 00:24:53,399 S2: point is, the key way to handle error is to 471 00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:56,250 S2: focus on truth. And so to the extent that you're 472 00:24:56,250 --> 00:24:59,640 S2: not paying attention to the Word of God, you're being duped. 473 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,970 S2: You're being led astray. Focus on the Bible now. Don't 474 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,250 S2: accept what I'm saying at face value. Go to the 475 00:25:05,250 --> 00:25:07,859 S2: Bible to see if what I'm saying matches up. 476 00:25:07,859 --> 00:25:11,189 S1: Charlie. What? We're reading this book. Who owns the land? 477 00:25:11,220 --> 00:25:13,650 S1: Do for me. And understanding this conflict. 478 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,400 S2: Well, it'll provide the historical, the geographical and the biblical 479 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,879 S2: context that most don't have. You know, people get taken 480 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,520 S2: in by the emotional stories in the media, but those 481 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,980 S2: stories don't present the whole truth. It's not a case 482 00:25:25,980 --> 00:25:28,760 S2: where everyone's wearing white hats or black hats where there's 483 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,730 S2: good guys and bad guys and they're clearly identified. It's 484 00:25:31,730 --> 00:25:34,700 S2: a story about God, his plans and his promises, and 485 00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:37,100 S2: what he has to say about the present and future 486 00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:40,040 S2: for this slice of real estate where he's working. 487 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,350 S1: And we'll put a link to his book, Who Owns 488 00:25:42,350 --> 00:25:45,260 S1: the Land from Moody Publishers at our web site. The 489 00:25:45,260 --> 00:25:48,350 S1: land and the book. Org. Charlie, I'm looking forward to 490 00:25:48,380 --> 00:25:50,600 S1: having you back in our next segment answering questions. You 491 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:51,560 S1: got your Bible ready? 492 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:52,580 S2: I got it ready, John. 493 00:25:52,609 --> 00:25:55,760 S1: All right. That's next on the land and the book. 494 00:26:06,770 --> 00:26:09,020 S1: Welcome back to segment three of the Land of the 495 00:26:09,020 --> 00:26:13,040 S1: Book Bible questions and Answers. I'm John Jacob with our host, 496 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,670 S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer, always pumped about what's come in via email. 497 00:26:16,700 --> 00:26:19,939 S1: Fascinating to see what interests you. I'm as interested in 498 00:26:19,940 --> 00:26:22,700 S1: knowing what the answers are as anybody. First, though, you know, 499 00:26:22,730 --> 00:26:24,770 S1: Israel has been in the news, of course, a lot 500 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,260 S1: over this past year and as we know, the Bible 501 00:26:27,260 --> 00:26:31,669 S1: is jam packed with end times prophecies. Epic world events, 502 00:26:31,670 --> 00:26:34,909 S1: the regathering of the Jewish people to their ancient homeland, 503 00:26:34,910 --> 00:26:38,270 S1: and Jesus return. It is crucial for us, though, as believers, 504 00:26:38,270 --> 00:26:41,359 S1: to have a proper understanding of Bible prophecy. So our 505 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,670 S1: view of the future is shaped by Scripture and not 506 00:26:43,670 --> 00:26:45,680 S1: just today's headlines. Right, Charlie? 507 00:26:45,710 --> 00:26:48,080 S2: Absolutely, John. And with that in mind, our friends at 508 00:26:48,109 --> 00:26:51,770 S2: Life and Messiah have published a book titled God, Israel 509 00:26:51,770 --> 00:26:54,590 S2: and Bible Prophecy, and they're offering it to listeners of 510 00:26:54,590 --> 00:26:57,110 S2: the land in the book for a limited time. This 511 00:26:57,140 --> 00:27:00,469 S2: informative book is focused on providing readers with a deeper 512 00:27:00,470 --> 00:27:04,490 S2: understanding and greater appreciation of what God has in store 513 00:27:04,490 --> 00:27:07,369 S2: for Israel and the nations by digging into what the 514 00:27:07,369 --> 00:27:10,489 S2: scriptures say about these issues. Now, if you're interested in 515 00:27:10,490 --> 00:27:13,760 S2: learning more about what God has in store, visit Life 516 00:27:13,790 --> 00:27:16,820 S2: in Messiah. Org and click on the Moody Radio button 517 00:27:16,820 --> 00:27:19,850 S2: there to find out how you can receive your copy 518 00:27:19,850 --> 00:27:25,369 S2: of God, Israel and Bible Prophecy. That's life in Dot org. 519 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,980 S1: Our first question of the day is from Norm. Who 520 00:27:27,980 --> 00:27:30,980 S1: wants to have your insights, Charlie, on the New Apostolic 521 00:27:30,980 --> 00:27:34,610 S1: Reformation and their teaching, in particular their belief in the 522 00:27:34,609 --> 00:27:38,960 S1: offices and roles of apostles and prophets being for today. 523 00:27:38,990 --> 00:27:41,869 S1: He says, now that we have God's completed revelation in 524 00:27:41,869 --> 00:27:44,690 S1: print form, I believe that their teaching on these roles 525 00:27:44,690 --> 00:27:46,730 S1: is in error. Your thoughts? Yeah. 526 00:27:46,790 --> 00:27:48,860 S2: I've not had a lot of interaction with the New 527 00:27:48,859 --> 00:27:51,859 S2: Apostolic Reformation movement, but from what I do know, I 528 00:27:51,859 --> 00:27:55,040 S2: believe the movement does depart from what the Bible teaches 529 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,010 S2: in those areas. For example, in terms of the gift 530 00:27:58,010 --> 00:28:02,270 S2: of apostleship being active today. Well, the Bible says that 531 00:28:02,270 --> 00:28:05,690 S2: that gift was foundational for the early church, requiring individuals 532 00:28:05,690 --> 00:28:08,900 S2: to have physically been an eyewitness of the risen Christ 533 00:28:08,930 --> 00:28:11,210 S2: and to have directly been called by Christ to serve 534 00:28:11,210 --> 00:28:14,000 S2: in that capacity. Here's where I'd say that. First Corinthians 535 00:28:14,030 --> 00:28:17,270 S2: nine one Paul writes, am I not an apostle? Have 536 00:28:17,270 --> 00:28:20,840 S2: I not seen Jesus our Lord? That second question really 537 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,600 S2: is answering the first. He was an apostle, in part 538 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:28,010 S2: because he had physically seen Jesus following his resurrection. In 539 00:28:28,010 --> 00:28:30,560 S2: Galatians one one, Paul even makes it more direct. He 540 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:35,180 S2: says his apostleship originated not from men, nor by a man, 541 00:28:35,210 --> 00:28:37,790 S2: but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised 542 00:28:37,790 --> 00:28:40,250 S2: him from the dead. So it was a direct call 543 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,250 S2: to be an apostle by God the Father and Jesus. 544 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:44,900 S2: Now I also have a problem with their belief in 545 00:28:44,900 --> 00:28:47,780 S2: the gift of prophecy being active for today. You know, 546 00:28:47,810 --> 00:28:50,630 S2: the gifts like prophecy were present in the early church. 547 00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:54,050 S2: But when the Bible was completed, those gifts passed away. 548 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,750 S2: And in first Corinthians 13, Paul says, we know in part, 549 00:28:56,780 --> 00:29:00,260 S2: we prophesy in part. But when completeness literally when that 550 00:29:00,260 --> 00:29:03,140 S2: which is perfect or mature comes, that which is in 551 00:29:03,140 --> 00:29:06,080 S2: part will disappear. And he says that in verse eight, 552 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,050 S2: there where there are prophecies, they will cease. And in 553 00:29:09,050 --> 00:29:11,930 S2: the early church, about the time the church was formed, 554 00:29:11,930 --> 00:29:15,440 S2: the canon of Scripture was completed. Prophecy did die out 555 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,570 S2: at the end of the first century. Now, even apart 556 00:29:17,570 --> 00:29:19,940 S2: from all that, here's the other issue. If someone says 557 00:29:19,940 --> 00:29:22,580 S2: today I have the gift of prophecy, See, I would 558 00:29:22,580 --> 00:29:24,380 S2: say to them, okay, let me grant that with you. 559 00:29:24,410 --> 00:29:27,110 S2: Will you grant me one thing? Will you follow what 560 00:29:27,140 --> 00:29:30,680 S2: God says about a prophet? And in Deuteronomy chapter 18, 561 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,380 S2: God said, A prophet who presumes to speak in my name. 562 00:29:33,380 --> 00:29:36,410 S2: Anything I have not commanded is to be put to death. 563 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,270 S2: You're to say to yourselves, how can we know a 564 00:29:38,270 --> 00:29:40,850 S2: message that has not been spoken by the Lord? Well, 565 00:29:40,850 --> 00:29:43,040 S2: if a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord 566 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,740 S2: something that doesn't take place or come true, this is 567 00:29:45,740 --> 00:29:48,710 S2: a message the Lord hasn't spoken. So God basically said, 568 00:29:48,710 --> 00:29:50,150 S2: if you're a prophet or if you're claiming to be 569 00:29:50,150 --> 00:29:54,500 S2: a prophet, you have to be 100% accurate or be killed. Well, 570 00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:56,360 S2: that's a pretty high bar, and I don't think those 571 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,780 S2: claiming prophecy today are willing to go to that high 572 00:29:59,780 --> 00:30:01,790 S2: bar that God himself established. 573 00:30:01,790 --> 00:30:05,630 S1: Mark takes us to Luke nine verse 13, asking, Is 574 00:30:05,630 --> 00:30:09,080 S1: Jesus really telling the disciples, you have the ability to 575 00:30:09,110 --> 00:30:12,350 S1: perform the miracle needed to feed the multitude? Yeah, and 576 00:30:12,350 --> 00:30:12,740 S1: that's that. 577 00:30:12,740 --> 00:30:14,720 S2: In that feeding of the 5000, I tend not to 578 00:30:14,750 --> 00:30:16,970 S2: see his words that way there. I think he's really 579 00:30:16,970 --> 00:30:20,150 S2: helping them see the human impossibility of them feeding so 580 00:30:20,150 --> 00:30:23,210 S2: many people. I say that because of their response, they 581 00:30:23,210 --> 00:30:26,060 S2: respond by saying, we only have five loaves and two 582 00:30:26,060 --> 00:30:28,670 S2: fish unless we go and buy food for all this crowd. 583 00:30:28,670 --> 00:30:32,000 S2: So in one sense, Jesus is feeding. Of the 5000, 584 00:30:32,030 --> 00:30:34,550 S2: there is intended, I think, to parallel the miracle of 585 00:30:34,550 --> 00:30:37,700 S2: God providing the manna for Israel in the wilderness. But 586 00:30:37,700 --> 00:30:40,280 S2: before performing the miracle, Jesus wanted to make sure the 587 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:45,410 S2: disciples understood that feeding so many was beyond their human ability. 588 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,320 S1: Todd asks, what does David have in mind when he 589 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,130 S1: speaks of strangers in first Chronicles 29, verse 15? 590 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,040 S2: Yeah, in that section, he's using the phrase aliens and 591 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,920 S2: strangers in relationship to God. And I think what he's 592 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,010 S2: doing is humbling himself and the people before God. You know, 593 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,130 S2: citizens of a country, especially those who own property. Well, 594 00:31:04,130 --> 00:31:07,640 S2: they had certain rights, but aliens and strangers didn't possess 595 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,310 S2: any land, and they didn't have those rights. We can 596 00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:12,500 S2: see that in the Bible, in Abraham and in the 597 00:31:12,500 --> 00:31:16,340 S2: book of Genesis. In Genesis 17, God told Abraham he 598 00:31:16,340 --> 00:31:19,070 S2: would possess the whole land of Canaan, where you are 599 00:31:19,070 --> 00:31:21,950 S2: now an alien, God says in verse eight. But when 600 00:31:21,950 --> 00:31:24,770 S2: Sarah died, Abraham went to the Hittites to purchase land 601 00:31:24,770 --> 00:31:27,320 S2: to bury her. And he began by saying, I'm an 602 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,410 S2: alien and a stranger among you. He was acknowledging his 603 00:31:30,410 --> 00:31:32,510 S2: lack of standing. He didn't even own a place where 604 00:31:32,510 --> 00:31:35,720 S2: he could bury his wife. It was a humble acknowledgement 605 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,390 S2: that he was asking a request and not a demand. 606 00:31:38,420 --> 00:31:42,590 S2: It's interesting that David uses that same phrase in Psalm 39, 607 00:31:42,590 --> 00:31:45,740 S2: verse 12, where he comes to God and pleads for 608 00:31:45,740 --> 00:31:48,320 S2: God's gracious help. He says, for I dwell with you 609 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,860 S2: as an alien, a stranger as all my fathers were. 610 00:31:51,890 --> 00:31:54,140 S2: Now putting all that together, what I see David's prayer 611 00:31:54,140 --> 00:31:57,140 S2: there in in first Chronicles 29 doing is, is a 612 00:31:57,140 --> 00:32:00,410 S2: praise for God's graciousness to people who in and of 613 00:32:00,410 --> 00:32:03,950 S2: themselves had no right to demand anything. All that God 614 00:32:03,950 --> 00:32:06,710 S2: had provided was an extension of his kindness to those 615 00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:09,110 S2: who had as much right to demand anything as a 616 00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:12,140 S2: foreigner did when appearing before a king in a foreign land. 617 00:32:12,170 --> 00:32:14,750 S2: God poured out his blessing on David and the people, 618 00:32:14,750 --> 00:32:17,780 S2: and David felt overwhelmed by God's graciousness. 619 00:32:17,810 --> 00:32:20,690 S1: You're listening to The Land and the book segment Three 620 00:32:20,690 --> 00:32:23,900 S1: Questions and Answers with our host, Charlie Dyer. I'm John Gager. 621 00:32:23,930 --> 00:32:29,390 S1: Lamentations three, verse 19 contains an imperative. Remember, this listener 622 00:32:29,420 --> 00:32:32,840 S1: wants to know is that remember command based on a 623 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,880 S1: perspective directed to the Lord. 624 00:32:34,910 --> 00:32:37,790 S2: Yeah, it's a straightforward question with a little complex answer 625 00:32:37,790 --> 00:32:40,640 S2: here in the Hebrew Masoretic Text. The verb there for 626 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,270 S2: remember is written as an imperative. That's why translations like 627 00:32:44,270 --> 00:32:47,240 S2: The New American Standard translated it as a request from 628 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:52,040 S2: Jeremiah to God, with Jeremiah asking God to remember his affliction. However, 629 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:53,930 S2: my concern is that doesn't really seem to fit the 630 00:32:53,930 --> 00:32:58,310 S2: overall context. The Septuagint translation there suggests, I think, how 631 00:32:58,310 --> 00:33:01,490 S2: the verb should be understood as a simple indicative statement. 632 00:33:01,490 --> 00:33:04,280 S2: That is where Jeremiah is saying I remember. So he's 633 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,500 S2: not asking God to remember. He's saying this is what 634 00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:08,900 S2: he remembers. And in that case, I think the NIV 635 00:33:08,930 --> 00:33:13,520 S2: translation based on the Septuagint understanding is probably more accurate. 636 00:33:13,580 --> 00:33:17,280 S2: In verses 1 to 18, Jeremiah lamented his personal struggles 637 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,910 S2: as God judged Judah and Jerusalem for its sin, and 638 00:33:20,940 --> 00:33:22,860 S2: in essence, he describes it in a way that Jerusalem 639 00:33:22,860 --> 00:33:25,020 S2: could say, hey, Jeremiah, we understand what you're saying. We've 640 00:33:25,050 --> 00:33:28,410 S2: experienced the same thing in verses 19 to 21. He 641 00:33:28,410 --> 00:33:31,680 S2: undergoes a transformation. So in verses 19 to 20, he 642 00:33:31,710 --> 00:33:34,710 S2: describes his focus on his problems and says how they 643 00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:37,320 S2: caused him to bow down inside. It's almost as if 644 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,990 S2: he's saying that looking at his circumstances caused him to 645 00:33:40,020 --> 00:33:43,500 S2: feel hopeless. But then he makes this dramatic change. He says, 646 00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:46,530 S2: yet this I call to mind, and therefore I have hope. 647 00:33:46,530 --> 00:33:49,590 S2: And what turned him from despondency to hope was a 648 00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:51,870 S2: renewed focus on the faithfulness of God. So in the 649 00:33:51,870 --> 00:33:54,750 S2: next two verses, he then moves from the singular I 650 00:33:54,750 --> 00:33:58,410 S2: and me and my, describing his own experiences to apply 651 00:33:58,410 --> 00:34:00,510 S2: the truth to the remnant. Because of the Lord's great 652 00:34:00,510 --> 00:34:04,230 S2: love we are not consumed, for his compassions never fail. 653 00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:08,130 S2: They are new every morning. Great is your faithfulness. Anyway, 654 00:34:08,130 --> 00:34:11,370 S2: I take remember in verse 19, not as an imperative, 655 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,800 S2: a request that's spoken by Jeremiah to God, but but 656 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,430 S2: as an indicative statement where he's continuing to describe himself. 657 00:34:17,460 --> 00:34:21,600 S1: Jeremiah chapter 49 speaks about God's destruction of Elam, which 658 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,660 S1: is in modern day Iran. Allen says this seems to 659 00:34:24,660 --> 00:34:27,660 S1: have end times meanings of some kind. Not clear to 660 00:34:27,690 --> 00:34:30,240 S1: us what kind of a throne would the Lord set 661 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,239 S1: up in Iran? And when does this happen? Yeah. Well, let. 662 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,160 S2: Me first deal with that question of God setting up 663 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,920 S2: the throne by saying God will set up his throne. 664 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,960 S2: Jeremiah is picturing God arriving there to personally supervise Elam's destruction. 665 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,640 S2: Jeremiah used similar imagery earlier in the book. In Jeremiah 115, 666 00:34:47,670 --> 00:34:50,160 S2: God announced he was going to send the kings who 667 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,319 S2: would set up their thrones at the entrance to the 668 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,160 S2: gate of Jerusalem. That was fulfilled in chapter 39, verse three, 669 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,620 S2: when all the officials of the king of Babylon came 670 00:34:58,620 --> 00:35:02,850 S2: and took seats in the middle gate after Jerusalem had fallen. Later, 671 00:35:02,850 --> 00:35:07,110 S2: Jeremiah predicted Nebuchadnezzar would defeat Egypt and set his throne over. 672 00:35:07,110 --> 00:35:10,439 S2: These stones I've buried right here in chapter 43 says 673 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,859 S2: that by using the imagery in chapter 49, Jeremiah is saying, 674 00:35:13,860 --> 00:35:17,130 S2: God will bring his forces against Elam and will personally 675 00:35:17,130 --> 00:35:20,969 S2: be there to supervise their destruction. Your second question, though, 676 00:35:20,969 --> 00:35:24,300 S2: related to when this was or might be fulfilled. And 677 00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:27,540 S2: while there's some evidence that Nebuchadnezzar defeated the Elamites, I 678 00:35:27,540 --> 00:35:30,420 S2: don't see that being totally fulfilling this prophecy. So I 679 00:35:30,420 --> 00:35:32,520 S2: do agree. I think it has somewhat of an end 680 00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:35,279 S2: time fulfillment. At the same time, I don't see this 681 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,580 S2: destruction being total or final. Since God ends by saying, 682 00:35:38,580 --> 00:35:41,550 S2: in the last days I will restore the fortunes of Elam. 683 00:35:41,580 --> 00:35:44,730 S2: And that's in verse 39 there. So God used almost 684 00:35:44,730 --> 00:35:47,580 S2: those same words earlier when predicting the future destruction and 685 00:35:47,580 --> 00:35:52,380 S2: restoration of Moab in chapter 48 and Ammon in chapter 49. 686 00:35:52,380 --> 00:35:54,150 S2: So I do see in that sense that it is 687 00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:56,340 S2: a bit of a future looking prophecy. 688 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,759 S1: James says, if you had to name three locations in 689 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,240 S1: the Holy Land that are the most key regarding salvation, 690 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,340 S1: which locations would those be? 691 00:36:05,460 --> 00:36:07,350 S2: Well, if I had to pick my top three, they'd 692 00:36:07,350 --> 00:36:10,649 S2: start with Jerusalem. Trace it from Abraham's meeting with Melchizedek 693 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,980 S2: to the sacrifice of Isaac on Mount Moriah. The second 694 00:36:14,010 --> 00:36:16,259 S2: would be the Mount of Olives. It's always near Jerusalem, 695 00:36:16,260 --> 00:36:18,510 S2: but it wasn't actually part of the city. And you 696 00:36:18,540 --> 00:36:20,370 S2: think of Jesus on the Mount of Olives, the Garden 697 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,970 S2: of Gethsemane, his ascension there, and his second coming. And 698 00:36:23,969 --> 00:36:26,520 S2: the third, crazy enough would be the Dead Sea, which 699 00:36:26,550 --> 00:36:29,489 S2: in Ezekiel 47 is a picture of the life that 700 00:36:29,489 --> 00:36:31,200 S2: God is going to give that dead sea. He's going 701 00:36:31,230 --> 00:36:33,360 S2: to turn it from death to life as an image 702 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,370 S2: of what he's going to do for the nation of Israel. 703 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,950 S1: Thank you Charlie. Why not get your question to us 704 00:36:37,950 --> 00:36:43,260 S1: via email at The Land and the book@moody.edu. The land 705 00:36:43,260 --> 00:36:47,669 S1: and the book@moody.edu. I'm looking forward to what Charlie has 706 00:36:47,670 --> 00:36:50,190 S1: to say in his devotional. That's next here on the 707 00:36:50,190 --> 00:37:05,880 S1: land and the book. You have so many choices in 708 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,580 S1: what you listen to these days. Thank you for making 709 00:37:08,610 --> 00:37:12,180 S1: time for the land and the book. We appreciate your company. 710 00:37:12,210 --> 00:37:16,080 S1: We is Charlie Dyer, our host, and John Gager here 711 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,960 S1: as well. I'm looking forward to Charlie's Devotional Boy, a 712 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,839 S1: very timely, if not sobering word from you, Charlie. Give 713 00:37:21,870 --> 00:37:24,300 S1: us a hint about what we're talking about today. 714 00:37:24,330 --> 00:37:27,120 S2: Yeah, we're coming up on the one year anniversary of 715 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,210 S2: the invasion of Hamas on October 7th, and I want 716 00:37:30,210 --> 00:37:32,250 S2: to take us to Lachish and look at that event. 717 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,399 S1: It's a spot in Israel that has remarkable parallels, as 718 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,250 S1: you're about to discover. First, though, a testimony from someone 719 00:37:38,250 --> 00:37:41,880 S1: else who's been to Israel and walks away with this observation. 720 00:37:45,870 --> 00:37:49,290 S4: Well, thank you for asking me to comment on the trip. 721 00:37:49,770 --> 00:37:53,190 S4: The whole trip is added fact to my faith. That's 722 00:37:53,190 --> 00:37:57,510 S4: just know that my faith is not based on suppositions 723 00:37:57,510 --> 00:38:00,870 S4: or whatever people think. I saw the places that you 724 00:38:00,870 --> 00:38:03,480 S4: show me, but the thing that probably meant most to 725 00:38:03,510 --> 00:38:07,110 S4: me was the Mount Bental sitting on top of of 726 00:38:07,110 --> 00:38:11,400 S4: the Golan Heights and looked down on that valley of tears. 727 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,100 S4: Where I saw where you. Where I followed all the 728 00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:18,300 S4: wars that Israel had. And you could see 1500 tanks 729 00:38:18,300 --> 00:38:20,609 S4: coming up there. And what Israel had to deal with and, 730 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:24,600 S4: and I just, I just tingled. And hearing the actual 731 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,069 S4: artillery in the backfield, the Syrian revolution going on and 732 00:38:29,070 --> 00:38:33,180 S4: then meeting the Israeli patrol earlier and then talking to him. 733 00:38:33,180 --> 00:38:35,250 S4: And then one of them was from Maryland. He came 734 00:38:35,250 --> 00:38:38,340 S4: over from born and raised in Maryland and came over 735 00:38:38,340 --> 00:38:41,970 S4: to join the Israeli army just because he thought he 736 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,750 S4: that was part of his duty. I just caused me to, 737 00:38:45,870 --> 00:38:48,779 S4: you know, I can't explain it, but I tingled when 738 00:38:48,780 --> 00:38:52,560 S4: I when I watched and looked at all that and 739 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,770 S4: just added so much to all I'd been reading. 740 00:38:57,780 --> 00:39:02,009 S1: Lakish and Hamas. The two share something in common. Charlie 741 00:39:02,010 --> 00:39:03,390 S1: unpacked this for us. 742 00:39:03,420 --> 00:39:06,210 S2: Okay, John. Well, you've likely heard the expression those who 743 00:39:06,210 --> 00:39:09,120 S2: fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. 744 00:39:09,150 --> 00:39:12,509 S2: That lesson is nowhere more apparent than where we're now. 745 00:39:12,510 --> 00:39:15,750 S2: Standing at the ancient site of Lachish during the reign 746 00:39:15,780 --> 00:39:18,630 S2: of King Hezekiah. Lachish was the second largest city in 747 00:39:18,630 --> 00:39:22,590 S2: the Kingdom of Judah. Only Jerusalem was larger. Located less 748 00:39:22,590 --> 00:39:26,670 S2: than 17 miles from Israel's current border with Gaza, Lachish 749 00:39:26,700 --> 00:39:29,970 S2: anchored the southwestern edge of the kingdom. Follow me up 750 00:39:29,969 --> 00:39:32,250 S2: the ramp to the gate complex that was the main 751 00:39:32,250 --> 00:39:35,640 S2: entrance into the city. Okay, we're now standing in the 752 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,569 S2: courtyard between the dual gates that guarded the entrance to Lachish. 753 00:39:39,780 --> 00:39:42,390 S2: I suspect many of you don't even recall reading about 754 00:39:42,420 --> 00:39:45,810 S2: Lachish in the Bible, in spite of its prominent history. 755 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,210 S2: The king of Lachish was one of the five kings 756 00:39:48,210 --> 00:39:51,779 S2: who attacked Gibeon at the time of Joshua. Following his 757 00:39:51,780 --> 00:39:54,299 S2: victory over the kings there, Lachish was one of the 758 00:39:54,300 --> 00:39:58,620 S2: cities attacked and destroyed by Joshua. After the death of Solomon, 759 00:39:58,620 --> 00:40:03,480 S2: King Rehoboam fortified Lachish to help defend his kingdom. Later, 760 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,890 S2: Judah's king Amaziah fled from Jerusalem to Lachish to avoid 761 00:40:07,890 --> 00:40:10,950 S2: an assassination attempt, but his enemies chased him down and 762 00:40:10,950 --> 00:40:14,220 S2: killed him there. Perhaps the two most troubling events at 763 00:40:14,250 --> 00:40:17,339 S2: Lakish were the attacks on the city by King Sennacherib 764 00:40:17,340 --> 00:40:21,239 S2: of Assyria and King Nebuchadnezzar of Judah. And today I 765 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,250 S2: want you to imagine what the city was like at 766 00:40:23,250 --> 00:40:26,190 S2: the time of King Hezekiah, the time when it was 767 00:40:26,190 --> 00:40:29,670 S2: attacked by King Sennacherib. I have a purpose for bringing 768 00:40:29,670 --> 00:40:32,340 S2: you here today. This coming week is the one year 769 00:40:32,340 --> 00:40:35,910 S2: anniversary of Hamas's brutal attack on Israel, just a few 770 00:40:35,910 --> 00:40:39,719 S2: miles from where you're now standing. The horrors inflicted on 771 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,620 S2: Israel by Hamas a year ago parallel Sennacherib's attack on 772 00:40:43,620 --> 00:40:47,370 S2: this city 2700 years earlier. Now, as you can see, 773 00:40:47,370 --> 00:40:51,600 S2: the foundations of this massive gate complex still dominate the site. 774 00:40:51,630 --> 00:40:53,940 S2: Look at the artist's drawing of the gate over there 775 00:40:53,940 --> 00:40:57,000 S2: to your left. But as impressive as the drawing is, 776 00:40:57,030 --> 00:40:59,670 S2: the gate itself would have looked even more imposing to 777 00:40:59,700 --> 00:41:02,940 S2: any army coming to attack. Walk with me through the 778 00:41:02,940 --> 00:41:05,069 S2: inner portion of the gate, and then look at the 779 00:41:05,070 --> 00:41:08,879 S2: massive stone foundation Near the top of the site, you're 780 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,370 S2: looking at the base of a palace, the home of 781 00:41:11,370 --> 00:41:14,160 S2: the regional governor, appointed by the King of Judah to 782 00:41:14,190 --> 00:41:18,240 S2: oversee the area. In Micah one, the prophet mentions teams 783 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,120 S2: of horses at Lachish, likely referring to a division of 784 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:26,040 S2: chariots based here the ancient forerunners of today's mobile armor. You, 785 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,859 S2: who live in Lachish, harness the team of horses to 786 00:41:28,890 --> 00:41:32,580 S2: the chariot. Micah cries out. The king of Assyria had 787 00:41:32,580 --> 00:41:35,190 S2: a room in his palace at Nineveh, decorated with a 788 00:41:35,190 --> 00:41:39,149 S2: carved relief showing his capture of the city of Lachish. 789 00:41:39,150 --> 00:41:43,320 S2: One panel shows soldiers pulling a captured chariot out of 790 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,890 S2: the city, filled with looted spoils of war. At the 791 00:41:46,890 --> 00:41:50,910 S2: bottom of the hill, Sennacherib himself directed the attack on Lachish. 792 00:41:50,940 --> 00:41:54,000 S2: The carved relief shows the king seated on his throne 793 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,670 S2: near the city, and part of the inscription next to 794 00:41:56,700 --> 00:42:00,750 S2: the throne identifies the one seated there as Sennacherib, king 795 00:42:00,780 --> 00:42:05,310 S2: of the world, king of Assyria. In second Kings 1814 14. 796 00:42:05,340 --> 00:42:08,520 S2: King Hezekiah sent this message to the king of Assyria 797 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,640 S2: at Lachish I have done wrong. Withdraw from me, and 798 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,970 S2: I will pay you whatever you demand of me. Sennacherib 799 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,660 S2: took the payment from Hezekiah, but then continued his attack, 800 00:42:18,660 --> 00:42:22,710 S2: finally capturing Lachish. But how does Sennacherib's destruction of this 801 00:42:22,710 --> 00:42:27,360 S2: ancient city offer insights into last year's attack by Hamas? Well, 802 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,709 S2: let me share several parallels. First, Hamas took Israel by surprise, 803 00:42:31,710 --> 00:42:35,400 S2: overrunning a defensive barrier completed by Israel less than two 804 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,750 S2: years before. Israel's iron wall, with all its sensors, was 805 00:42:39,750 --> 00:42:43,620 S2: designed to stop Hamas from tunneling underneath the barrier, but 806 00:42:43,650 --> 00:42:46,920 S2: Hamas instead went through it in a mass assault. In 807 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,440 S2: the same way the gate and walls of Lachish were 808 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,859 S2: designed to be impregnable. But the Assyrians built a massive 809 00:42:52,860 --> 00:42:55,590 S2: ramp and used siege engines to breach the top of 810 00:42:55,590 --> 00:42:59,640 S2: the wall. Hamas used GoPro cameras to record their assault, 811 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,819 S2: while the Assyrians decorated a room in the king's palace 812 00:43:02,850 --> 00:43:07,210 S2: in Nineveh to memorialize their attack. Hamas boasted of its 813 00:43:07,210 --> 00:43:11,740 S2: vicious brutality, recording the murder, rape and torture of civilians 814 00:43:11,739 --> 00:43:15,040 S2: and soldiers alike, and in doing so, they mirrored the 815 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:19,779 S2: actions of the Assyrians. Assyrians pictured captives begging for their lives, 816 00:43:19,780 --> 00:43:23,080 S2: only to be beheaded. Other captives were tortured to death, 817 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:27,280 S2: their bodies gruesomely displayed for all to see. Not everyone 818 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:31,120 S2: was killed. Many were carried away into captivity. Sennacherib left 819 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,180 S2: several written records of his conquest. He boasted that he 820 00:43:34,180 --> 00:43:37,390 S2: attacked Hezekiah, king of Judah, and took 46 of his 821 00:43:37,390 --> 00:43:41,320 S2: strong walled cities, walled forts, and countless small villages. I 822 00:43:41,350 --> 00:43:46,060 S2: carried away captive 200,150 people, young and old, male and 823 00:43:46,060 --> 00:43:51,310 S2: female horses, mules, donkeys, camels, and oxen. Beyond counting among 824 00:43:51,310 --> 00:43:55,150 S2: the more than 200,000 people taken captive were those from Lachish. 825 00:43:55,180 --> 00:43:59,500 S2: Hamas abducted around 250 hostages to take back into Gaza. 826 00:43:59,530 --> 00:44:02,920 S2: The only difference between the Assyrians and Hamas is that 827 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,130 S2: the Assyrians were able to attack the entire country, rather 828 00:44:06,130 --> 00:44:09,610 S2: than just the small communities along the Gaza border. So 829 00:44:09,610 --> 00:44:13,000 S2: how brutal was Hamas's attack last year? Some compare them 830 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,870 S2: to ISIS because of their savagery wrapped in Islamic fundamentalism, 831 00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:19,990 S2: and that's a fair comparison. But to truly understand the 832 00:44:19,989 --> 00:44:23,020 S2: impact of what Hamas wanted to do to Israel, I 833 00:44:23,020 --> 00:44:25,810 S2: believe you need to go back to the Assyrians. Both 834 00:44:25,810 --> 00:44:29,500 S2: were arrogant and boastful. Both were brutal and vicious. Both 835 00:44:29,500 --> 00:44:32,980 S2: looked for new ways to torture, maim and kill. Both 836 00:44:33,010 --> 00:44:36,220 S2: sought to wipe out the Jewish people, and both eventually 837 00:44:36,219 --> 00:44:39,460 S2: discovered what God meant when he said, I will bless 838 00:44:39,460 --> 00:44:41,980 S2: those who bless you and the one who curses you, 839 00:44:41,980 --> 00:44:45,730 S2: I will curse. Hamas didn't learn the lesson. Those who 840 00:44:45,730 --> 00:44:48,460 S2: fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. 841 00:44:48,460 --> 00:44:51,700 S2: Or we might say what goes around comes around. The 842 00:44:51,700 --> 00:44:56,109 S2: Assyrians are ancient history. Hamas attack is more recent history, 843 00:44:56,110 --> 00:44:59,560 S2: but both are still history. So what lesson can we 844 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:03,580 S2: take away from our visit here at Lakish? How about this? 845 00:45:03,610 --> 00:45:06,790 S2: We must never forget there is a God. He cares 846 00:45:06,790 --> 00:45:09,549 S2: for his people. And he will hold accountable those who 847 00:45:09,580 --> 00:45:12,670 S2: seek to harm them. That's true for the Jewish people today, 848 00:45:12,670 --> 00:45:16,150 S2: because God's covenant with Abraham is still in effect. And 849 00:45:16,150 --> 00:45:19,360 S2: it's also true for followers of Jesus, because we've been 850 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,450 S2: grafted into a place of blessing through Christ's death on 851 00:45:22,450 --> 00:45:26,680 S2: our behalf. He won't allow life's troubles to overwhelm you. 852 00:45:26,710 --> 00:45:30,910 S2: In 1855, Joseph Scriven wrote a poem to encourage his 853 00:45:30,910 --> 00:45:33,910 S2: ailing mother that became the hymn What a Friend We 854 00:45:33,910 --> 00:45:38,140 S2: Have in Jesus. If you're discouraged and downhearted today, listen 855 00:45:38,140 --> 00:45:41,680 S2: to the final stanza of his poem. Are we weak 856 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:46,060 S2: and heavy laden, encumbered with a load of care? Precious Savior, 857 00:45:46,090 --> 00:45:49,420 S2: still our refuge. Take it to the Lord in prayer. 858 00:45:49,450 --> 00:45:52,810 S2: Do thy friends despise. Forsake thee? Take it to the 859 00:45:52,810 --> 00:45:56,620 S2: Lord in prayer. In his arms he'll take and shield thee. 860 00:45:56,650 --> 00:46:01,719 S2: Thou wilt find a solace there. The bottom line when 861 00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,530 S2: you face trouble, don't depend on your own strength, ability, 862 00:46:05,530 --> 00:46:09,970 S2: or resources. The only sure source of protection is the 863 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,070 S2: eternal Rock of ages. 864 00:46:12,100 --> 00:46:14,890 S1: Thank you Charlie. And if you don't know for sure 865 00:46:14,890 --> 00:46:19,240 S1: that Jesus is your eternal friend, your Savior, you can 866 00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,630 S1: have that assurance today. You can receive Christ, his forgiveness 867 00:46:22,630 --> 00:46:25,450 S1: of your wrongdoing, your sins. And a volunteer would be 868 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,930 S1: happy to pray with you as you call 888. Need him. 869 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,520 S1: I'll slow that down. 888. Need him. There's nothing to buy, 870 00:46:33,550 --> 00:46:35,319 S1: so there's nothing to sell. All right. It's just a 871 00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:41,230 S1: frank conversation about knowing Jesus forever. Eight. Eight. Eight. Need him. 872 00:46:41,290 --> 00:46:43,510 S1: And on that note, we'll say so long, but want 873 00:46:43,540 --> 00:46:46,390 S1: to thank our producer, Dan Anderson, our host, Charlie Dyer, 874 00:46:46,390 --> 00:46:49,240 S1: and the management at the station for carving out airtime 875 00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,480 S1: for the land and the book. A production of Moody Radio, 876 00:46:52,510 --> 00:46:55,060 S1: a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.