WEBVTT - Restoring Delight | Asheritah Ciuciu 0:00:02.300 --> 0:00:05.269 If you feel like you're on a spiritual hamster wheel 0:00:05.300 --> 0:00:08.750 trying to do enough to make God happy. Don't miss 0:00:08.750 --> 0:00:12.200 today's Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman. 0:00:13.369 --> 0:00:17.360 Maybe he's inviting you to lean into that one primary 0:00:17.390 --> 0:00:21.080 way that he wants to express his delight toward you. 0:00:21.110 --> 0:00:23.510 Maybe it's time for more walks outside, or it's time 0:00:23.510 --> 0:00:27.200 to really dig into Scripture. That might be God's invitation 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:28.490 to delight for you today. 0:00:31.580 --> 0:00:35.960 Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:40.340 the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Today, 0:00:40.340 --> 0:00:43.699 author and speaker Ashrita ChuChu is back with some help. 0:00:43.700 --> 0:00:46.850 For anyone who's burdened, broken, or burned out. 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:49.940 She's asking an important question what if we've gotten the 0:00:49.940 --> 0:00:54.290 spiritual disciplines wrong? What if our growth and maturity come 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:58.220 not from perfecting our quiet time, but really in delighting 0:00:58.220 --> 0:01:01.540 in the perfect love of the father for you and me. 0:01:01.570 --> 0:01:04.959 Acereda develops that in the new book. She's titled Delighting 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:09.250 in Jesus Rhythms to restore joy when you feel burdened, broken, 0:01:09.250 --> 0:01:12.429 or burned out. Is that how you feel today? It's 0:01:12.430 --> 0:01:16.720 our featured resource at Building Relationships, us and Gary. I 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:19.059 don't think we've ever talked about this. Have you ever 0:01:19.060 --> 0:01:22.570 gone through that struggle of trying to measure up spiritually, 0:01:22.569 --> 0:01:26.020 or falling into the performance trap with God? 0:01:26.170 --> 0:01:28.839 You know, Chris, I think in the early days when 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:32.709 I was first introduced to the daily quiet time, you know, 0:01:32.890 --> 0:01:36.040 I kind of saw it as I have to do 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:38.800 this every day, you know, in order for God to 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.860 be with me. ET cetera. ET cetera. But that's been 0:01:41.860 --> 0:01:44.650 a long time ago. It's still a very active part 0:01:44.650 --> 0:01:49.150 of my life, but I'm not allowing the fact that 0:01:49.150 --> 0:01:51.910 I miss a morning because I have to catch an 0:01:51.910 --> 0:01:54.730 early flight. You know, I just say, hey, God, let's 0:01:54.730 --> 0:01:56.890 talk on the plane. You know, and let's talk as 0:01:56.890 --> 0:02:00.830 we drive to the airport. So. Yeah. But I understand. 0:02:00.860 --> 0:02:03.350 I understand that concept. And I'm really glad we're going 0:02:03.350 --> 0:02:04.910 to be discussing this today. 0:02:04.940 --> 0:02:08.330 Me too. Let me reintroduce our guest. She's a best 0:02:08.330 --> 0:02:12.560 selling author of ten books. National retreat speaker teaches the 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:16.339 Bible on YouTube. Ashreeta ChuChu grew up as a missionary 0:02:16.340 --> 0:02:20.359 kid in Romania. She married her high school sweetheart, Flavio, 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:24.109 and they have three children. Live in Northeast Ohio. Her 0:02:24.110 --> 0:02:28.250 latest is our featured resource at Building Relationships US. It's 0:02:28.250 --> 0:02:32.900 titled Delighting in Jesus Rhythms to restore joy when you 0:02:32.900 --> 0:02:38.209 feel burdened, broken, or burned out. Again, go to building relationships.us. 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:41.630 Well, Ashreeta, welcome back to Building Relationships. 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.090 Thank you so much for having me back on. It's 0:02:44.090 --> 0:02:45.260 my joy to be here. 0:02:45.290 --> 0:02:49.370 I don't think we've ever talked about your name. So 0:02:49.370 --> 0:02:53.570 let's start there. What does that name mean? Ashreeta? 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:58.450 Sure. My name is actually made up. My father made 0:02:58.450 --> 0:03:03.520 it up. It's Hebrew for God gives me happiness. And 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.280 that's just been a blessing on my life since I 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:08.710 was a little girl, that I would grow up to 0:03:08.740 --> 0:03:11.440 learn that God is my happiness. 0:03:11.470 --> 0:03:16.390 Wow. I like that. Many Christians feel guilty about not 0:03:16.389 --> 0:03:20.140 reading the Bible or praying enough. But you believe that 0:03:20.139 --> 0:03:25.660 this view of spiritual disciplines is actually anti-Christian? Can you 0:03:25.660 --> 0:03:26.740 explain that? 0:03:27.100 --> 0:03:30.760 Yeah, this view of reading my Bible or praying every 0:03:30.790 --> 0:03:37.060 day kind of checklist spiritual mentality is based in performance, 0:03:37.060 --> 0:03:39.490 in wanting to make sure that we measure up to 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:43.660 some level of what God expects of us or, um, 0:03:43.690 --> 0:03:47.080 kind of reaching that super Christian level of I read 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:50.860 the Bible through a year, or I spend an hour, um, 0:03:50.860 --> 0:03:55.720 studying my Bible and praying, and that is rooted in 0:03:55.720 --> 0:04:01.710 a desire to perform, to reach a certain level of 0:04:01.710 --> 0:04:05.010 I don't want to say maturity as much as I'm 0:04:05.010 --> 0:04:08.790 doing it right. And when Jesus was on the cross, 0:04:08.790 --> 0:04:12.690 he achieved everything that is needed to be made right 0:04:12.690 --> 0:04:17.280 with God. It is Jesus's sacrifice plus nothing else. That 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.430 is why he said it is finished. So whenever we 0:04:20.430 --> 0:04:25.590 try to add to Jesus's sacrifice through our our good deeds, 0:04:25.589 --> 0:04:29.250 through even reading the Bible or going to church, there's 0:04:29.250 --> 0:04:33.780 this sneaky deception that can sneak in where we think 0:04:33.779 --> 0:04:37.919 we need to do something to make God happy with us. 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:41.820 But if we belong to Christ, when God looks at us, 0:04:41.820 --> 0:04:46.200 he sees the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ. There's nothing 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:49.529 else we can do to add to that. So reading 0:04:49.529 --> 0:04:52.500 our Bible and praying and going to church and fasting 0:04:52.500 --> 0:04:56.560 and sharing the gospel with our neighbors or friends or coworkers. 0:04:56.589 --> 0:04:59.320 Those are all things that we do out of the 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:04.510 overflow of what Jesus has accomplished, not to add to it. 0:05:04.930 --> 0:05:08.409 Yeah. So it seems to me that what you're advocating 0:05:08.410 --> 0:05:14.500 is a real relationship with God based on loving acceptance, 0:05:14.770 --> 0:05:19.090 rather than a formula that's based on performance. Is that right? 0:05:19.210 --> 0:05:23.410 Yeah. That's it exactly. I think what God invites us 0:05:23.410 --> 0:05:29.469 into with these practices is to nurture our friendship with Jesus, 0:05:29.470 --> 0:05:33.970 to receive his delight in us and respond to him 0:05:33.970 --> 0:05:37.570 with delight. And so reading our Bible doesn't have to 0:05:37.570 --> 0:05:40.360 be a chore anymore. It doesn't have to be boring 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.210 when we get to Leviticus. I mean, they'll still be 0:05:43.210 --> 0:05:47.409 challenging sections. We still need to do the hard work 0:05:47.410 --> 0:05:51.789 of showing up and and reading. But we have a helper. 0:05:51.820 --> 0:05:54.339 Jesus says, I'm not going to leave you by yourself. 0:05:54.339 --> 0:05:56.760 I'm going to send the counselor and he will lead 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:00.360 you in all truth. So when we sit down with 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.239 Leviticus and we're like, what's with the blood? What's with 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:08.490 the sacrifices? What's with I don't understand. We can ask 0:06:08.490 --> 0:06:11.969 God's Spirit, would you open my eyes? Would you help 0:06:11.970 --> 0:06:15.029 me to see Jesus here? Would you give me a 0:06:15.029 --> 0:06:18.630 hunger and a thirst to get to know you more? 0:06:18.630 --> 0:06:23.339 And once you see Jesus in Leviticus, it just unlocks 0:06:23.370 --> 0:06:26.580 a world of understanding of who he is and what 0:06:26.580 --> 0:06:29.880 he's done for us. It's such a fun adventure. 0:06:29.910 --> 0:06:34.170 Yeah. So the reading of the scriptures is really a 0:06:34.170 --> 0:06:37.650 part of having a conversation with God. It's a relationship 0:06:37.650 --> 0:06:42.809 with God. And and this is just taking time consciously 0:06:42.810 --> 0:06:45.270 to sit down and listen to God as well as 0:06:45.270 --> 0:06:46.590 talk to God. Right? 0:06:46.830 --> 0:06:51.900 Absolutely. And that made such a difference in my own life. Gary. 0:06:52.230 --> 0:06:55.660 I grew up in a Christian family. So blessed to 0:06:55.690 --> 0:06:59.350 have parents who taught me the Bible. Who taught me 0:06:59.380 --> 0:07:03.670 solid theology about God. And from an early age I 0:07:03.670 --> 0:07:06.310 learned to read the Bible. I learned to do all 0:07:06.310 --> 0:07:12.100 the spiritual disciplines. But it was God revealing himself to 0:07:12.130 --> 0:07:15.400 me through scripture that really caused me to want to 0:07:15.430 --> 0:07:18.070 know him more. It wasn't so much about did I 0:07:18.070 --> 0:07:21.670 read my three chapters today, right? Can I check off 0:07:21.670 --> 0:07:24.760 this list of okay, I'm on track or no, I'm 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:26.830 three days behind. It's going to take me so long 0:07:26.860 --> 0:07:31.720 to catch up. It's showing up to the page and saying, God, 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:36.280 would you show me something about yourself? I think reading 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:38.950 the Word of God, this rhythm of the word, is 0:07:38.950 --> 0:07:43.360 really about delighting in his revelation for us. He wants 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:46.390 to teach us who he is. He wants to reveal 0:07:46.420 --> 0:07:49.750 new things about his heart toward us. And he does 0:07:49.750 --> 0:07:51.220 that through Scripture. 0:07:52.030 --> 0:07:54.240 As a way Actually to talk to listeners who are 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:58.680 not Christians or they don't share our love for the Bible. 0:07:59.070 --> 0:08:00.930 What would you say to them? 0:08:01.470 --> 0:08:05.520 I want to say that our story begins not with 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.690 sin or failure or falling short of God's glory. Our 0:08:09.690 --> 0:08:14.430 story begins with a good creator and maker who made 0:08:14.430 --> 0:08:18.780 us for relationship. He made us out of delight, out 0:08:18.780 --> 0:08:23.400 of the overflow of delight. And he placed humans, Adam 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:27.780 and Eve in the Garden of Eden. And Eden means delight. 0:08:27.780 --> 0:08:31.950 So the beginning of our story is an invitation to 0:08:31.980 --> 0:08:36.449 relationship and delight. When sin entered the picture, it kind 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:40.170 of twisted that to where we now seek happiness and 0:08:40.170 --> 0:08:43.559 joy and delight in other things, instead of finding that 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:47.220 fulfillment in God. And so my invitation to you, if 0:08:47.220 --> 0:08:50.010 you're listening to this and you're like, oh, the Bible 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:54.770 is an ancient book. It's not relevant today. It feels boring. 0:08:54.770 --> 0:08:58.069 It's just a legalistic thing that people say that you 0:08:58.070 --> 0:09:02.329 should do. My invitation to you would be to reach 0:09:02.330 --> 0:09:05.929 out to God in prayer and ask him. Ask him 0:09:05.929 --> 0:09:09.439 to reveal himself to you and sit down with a 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:12.770 few chapters of of the book of John and ask, 0:09:12.770 --> 0:09:17.540 what does this say about God? And Jesus promises that 0:09:17.540 --> 0:09:21.170 he will gather his sheep, that he will speak to 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.200 his sheep, and they will hear his voice. And if 0:09:24.230 --> 0:09:29.390 you truly, honestly want to get to know God, if 0:09:29.420 --> 0:09:32.480 you truly want to know is this real? It is 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:36.200 God's delight to reveal himself to those who seek him. 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:40.579 Those who diligently seek him will find him when they 0:09:40.580 --> 0:09:43.490 seek him with all of his heart. God says, I 0:09:43.490 --> 0:09:48.170 will make myself found to them. So what a great adventure! Then, 0:09:48.170 --> 0:09:50.000 if you're in that place where you're like, I'm not 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:53.800 sure if this is real or not. Ask God. It 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:57.340 will be his delight to say, let me show you. 0:09:57.370 --> 0:10:01.330 As long as that request comes from a humble and 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:04.689 honest heart that pleases him. 0:10:05.500 --> 0:10:08.950 Ashreeta this is your 10th book, but of all the 0:10:08.950 --> 0:10:12.969 devotionals and Bible studies that you've published, you share that 0:10:12.970 --> 0:10:17.470 this has been the hardest one to write. Why is 0:10:17.470 --> 0:10:18.309 that true? 0:10:19.210 --> 0:10:22.510 Well, Gary, I was not expecting this book to be 0:10:22.510 --> 0:10:25.059 as difficult to write as it has been because as 0:10:25.059 --> 0:10:27.849 I shared earlier, my name means God is my happiness. 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.090 God gives me happiness. And that's been true of my 0:10:31.090 --> 0:10:34.569 life my whole life long. So I was so excited 0:10:34.570 --> 0:10:36.910 to sit down and write a book about how to 0:10:36.940 --> 0:10:40.750 find joy in Jesus, sharing with Christians what I've learned 0:10:40.780 --> 0:10:43.780 throughout my walk with the Lord. But what I didn't 0:10:43.809 --> 0:10:49.500 expect was to enter into one of the darkest periods 0:10:49.500 --> 0:10:53.730 of my life just prior to writing this book. Feeling 0:10:53.730 --> 0:10:58.410 myself in a place of just hardship and heaviness and 0:10:58.410 --> 0:11:03.510 darkness and really questioning like where did my joy go? God, 0:11:03.510 --> 0:11:06.329 if you are my happiness and I'm not experiencing that 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:11.250 happiness anymore. Then is this still true? Am I somehow, 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.400 how of your favor or your grace? Is that why 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.850 I feel this heaviness and this sorrow in my soul? 0:11:17.850 --> 0:11:21.600 And that's what made this book so difficult to write, 0:11:21.630 --> 0:11:26.219 was because I wanted to tell the truth, and I 0:11:26.220 --> 0:11:29.850 had to first grapple with my own lack of joy. 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:33.090 And so that's where all of this, actually the beginning 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:37.319 of this book starts. It opens with me crying out 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:41.280 to the Lord and echoing David's words in Psalm 13, God, 0:11:41.309 --> 0:11:44.939 turn and answer me. Restore the sparkle to my eyes, 0:11:44.940 --> 0:11:49.150 or I will die. And I didn't even start writing 0:11:49.150 --> 0:11:54.220 anything until almost a year later. So all of what 0:11:54.340 --> 0:11:57.429 I had learned in theory up to that point, all 0:11:57.460 --> 0:12:01.960 of what I had experienced on the sunshine days of life, 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.230 all of that then entered into what felt like the 0:12:05.230 --> 0:12:08.770 valley of the shadow of death and saying, Will you 0:12:08.770 --> 0:12:12.730 still walk with me? Will. Will you teach me about 0:12:12.730 --> 0:12:16.330 your delight and your presence, even when I'm not joyful 0:12:16.330 --> 0:12:20.440 and God in your kindness, would you restore joy? Like 0:12:20.470 --> 0:12:22.420 if this is to be the rest of my life, 0:12:22.420 --> 0:12:26.350 if it is to be obedient and diligence, even if 0:12:26.350 --> 0:12:30.850 my emotions aren't there, then I will follow you. But God, 0:12:30.850 --> 0:12:32.739 it would just. It would mean so much if you 0:12:32.740 --> 0:12:35.770 were to restore my joy. Like, would you, in your kindness, 0:12:35.770 --> 0:12:39.850 help me to sense your delight again? And what followed 0:12:39.850 --> 0:12:44.800 was the Lord's kind healing of me, body and soul 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:50.420 and spirit and mind just a whole person restoration where 0:12:50.450 --> 0:12:52.910 now I can say a couple years down the road 0:12:52.910 --> 0:12:56.360 he has restored the sparkle to my eyes. 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:00.050 Well, I think that's something that David spoke of often, 0:13:00.050 --> 0:13:03.110 as you mentioned in the Psalms. And I think a 0:13:03.140 --> 0:13:07.220 lot of our listeners can identify with that as well. Now, 0:13:07.250 --> 0:13:11.120 you make the bold claim that what Western Christians think 0:13:11.150 --> 0:13:16.880 is the gospel is actually an incomplete gospel for many. So. 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:19.820 So what is the gospel and how can we know 0:13:19.820 --> 0:13:21.319 the correct definition? 0:13:22.250 --> 0:13:24.920 I think part of the challenge is when we present 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:29.840 the gospel starting with sin, and that's often how it's shared. 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.090 It's this to tell you the good news, I first 0:13:32.090 --> 0:13:34.580 have to tell you the bad news. And we start 0:13:34.580 --> 0:13:37.730 with sin and failure and condemnation. And then the good 0:13:37.730 --> 0:13:41.870 news that Jesus came and paid the price for our sins. Hallelujah! 0:13:41.870 --> 0:13:45.199 What a beautiful truth. But that is not where the 0:13:45.230 --> 0:13:49.300 gospel begins. The gospel begins in Genesis chapter one. It 0:13:49.300 --> 0:13:53.110 begins with a God of delight who created humans in 0:13:53.110 --> 0:13:56.410 his image as his image bearers in the world, out 0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:00.610 of delight, with an invitation then to relationship and delight 0:14:00.610 --> 0:14:04.630 an understanding that God cares about our happiness. That God 0:14:04.630 --> 0:14:09.729 truly longs for us to experience the fullness of joy 0:14:09.730 --> 0:14:13.690 in his presence. Psalm 1611 says, in your presence is 0:14:13.690 --> 0:14:17.710 fullness of joy. At your right hand are pleasures forevermore. 0:14:17.740 --> 0:14:20.980 When we understand, then that that is what God is 0:14:20.980 --> 0:14:25.450 inviting us into is a restoration of delight and relationship. 0:14:25.450 --> 0:14:29.620 That yes, sin marred that and destroyed that. And because 0:14:29.620 --> 0:14:32.290 of that, we lost the Garden of Eden. And Jesus 0:14:32.290 --> 0:14:38.290 came as the God become flesh, God and humanity united 0:14:38.290 --> 0:14:41.830 so that he might restore to us what has been 0:14:41.830 --> 0:14:46.109 broken and stolen. Then Jesus dying on the cross is 0:14:46.110 --> 0:14:48.720 not just for our sins. It is for death and 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.900 destruction and the curse of evil and everything that is 0:14:51.900 --> 0:14:56.520 broken in the world. And his resurrection is, yes, the 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.730 the victory over sin and the enemy, but it also 0:14:59.730 --> 0:15:03.690 brings in the new kingdom of God. Jesus looks at 0:15:03.690 --> 0:15:06.360 people and in his day and he says, the kingdom 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:09.540 of God is here in your midst. It's moving out 0:15:09.540 --> 0:15:13.020 in power. So the Spirit of God then coming to 0:15:13.050 --> 0:15:16.980 dwell in us is not about sin management. It is 0:15:16.980 --> 0:15:20.910 about the Spirit of God, then restoring to us his 0:15:20.910 --> 0:15:25.290 own presence and and doing this good work of growing 0:15:25.290 --> 0:15:28.950 into what it means to be followers of Jesus, what 0:15:28.950 --> 0:15:32.190 it means to be those who love, who restore, who 0:15:32.190 --> 0:15:35.340 bring the kingdom wherever we go. And that is the 0:15:35.340 --> 0:15:38.670 work that we do. Then it's inviting people not into 0:15:38.670 --> 0:15:43.350 this transactional like get out of hell free card. It's 0:15:43.350 --> 0:15:46.750 not just about eternal security, and we just kind of 0:15:46.780 --> 0:15:50.620 hang tight until Jesus comes back or until we die 0:15:50.620 --> 0:15:54.490 and see him face to face. Like that misses the 0:15:54.490 --> 0:15:57.910 heart of the gospel, which is that God has always 0:15:57.910 --> 0:16:03.640 been about restoration and bringing about relationship and delight to 0:16:03.670 --> 0:16:06.430 the fullness of what he created us for. And I 0:16:06.430 --> 0:16:12.220 think it's once we capture that vision of, oh, how 0:16:12.220 --> 0:16:15.910 much more is available to us through God's Spirit, how 0:16:15.910 --> 0:16:19.870 much more he invites us into that, then it's not 0:16:19.870 --> 0:16:22.870 about reading my Bible and praying every day because that's 0:16:22.870 --> 0:16:26.860 what God expects of me. It's. Oh my goodness, God 0:16:26.860 --> 0:16:30.040 wants so much for us here and now as the 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.460 body of Christ as His church. And so I'm going 0:16:33.490 --> 0:16:36.160 to seek his face today, Lord, in these appointments that 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:39.850 you have for me in these projects at work, in 0:16:39.850 --> 0:16:43.830 the challenges of parenting my children or with in-laws or 0:16:43.860 --> 0:16:46.830 neighbors in these places. What does it look like to 0:16:46.860 --> 0:16:51.510 say your kingdom come, your will be done on earth 0:16:51.510 --> 0:16:53.880 as it is in heaven, and start here. Start in 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:59.940 my home. That then becomes a redemptive collaboration with God's Spirit. 0:17:00.090 --> 0:17:03.239 That is what we see from Genesis to Revelation is 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:06.480 this is the big picture of what God invites us to. 0:17:06.510 --> 0:17:09.840 And it is a compelling call then to say, Come 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:13.260 to Jesus. It's so much more than the Romans road. Think. 0:17:13.290 --> 0:17:16.200 Thank God for those truths and for the beauty and 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:20.520 theological truths of atonement. But it is so much richer 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:24.480 and more beautiful and more compelling when we grasp the 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:28.470 heart of God for redemption and restoration. And that's not 0:17:28.470 --> 0:17:31.859 just someday in heaven. It starts here and now with us, 0:17:31.859 --> 0:17:34.740 with God's Spirit in us. Yeah. 0:17:35.220 --> 0:17:38.670 Actually, whether you talk about joy and we often hear 0:17:38.670 --> 0:17:42.050 the word joy and happiness, is there a difference between 0:17:42.050 --> 0:17:44.000 these two? According to the Bible. 0:17:44.300 --> 0:17:47.629 Oh, I'm so glad you brought that up, Gary. Because 0:17:47.630 --> 0:17:50.629 when we look at the words that the Bible uses 0:17:50.630 --> 0:17:56.450 for joy and happiness and delight, the Bible is indiscriminate 0:17:56.450 --> 0:18:01.160 in its uses of these words. They are synonymous in Scripture, 0:18:01.220 --> 0:18:03.590 and I think we do a disservice when we try 0:18:03.619 --> 0:18:06.440 to kind of split hairs and say, oh, happiness is 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.320 what the world offers, and joy is what God offers. 0:18:09.650 --> 0:18:14.090 In Scripture, honestly, they're the same because God is the 0:18:14.090 --> 0:18:18.500 inventor of joy and happiness. Every good and beautiful gift 0:18:18.500 --> 0:18:23.030 comes from God. Every wonderful thing, everything that's ever brought 0:18:23.030 --> 0:18:26.960 a smile to your face has at its core, a 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:30.980 kernel of the goodness of God. So joy and happiness 0:18:30.980 --> 0:18:35.180 are gifts from God. Where the problem comes in is 0:18:35.180 --> 0:18:40.950 when we seek to fill that core desire for delight 0:18:40.950 --> 0:18:43.919 and joy and happiness. What God created us in the 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:48.149 Garden of Eden to experience in him. When we reach 0:18:48.150 --> 0:18:51.870 out for the fruit, when we seek to take hold 0:18:51.869 --> 0:18:57.990 of that experience through food, through shopping, through alcohol, through relationships, 0:18:57.990 --> 0:19:02.490 through money or power, when we reach for those other 0:19:02.490 --> 0:19:06.090 things than to fill that desire and that void, that 0:19:06.090 --> 0:19:08.550 is where we go awry. That that is where the 0:19:08.550 --> 0:19:12.750 desire for a good thing is leading us in the 0:19:12.750 --> 0:19:16.859 wrong direction. But when we find our true happiness, our 0:19:16.859 --> 0:19:22.020 true desire and fulfillment in Christ, in Jesus, in the 0:19:22.020 --> 0:19:25.260 fullness of who he is and what he's done, then 0:19:25.260 --> 0:19:29.280 we can then receive those things as good gifts from him. 0:19:29.310 --> 0:19:32.340 We're told that whether we eat or drink, we should 0:19:32.340 --> 0:19:35.609 do it for God's glory. So even Jesus modeled this, 0:19:35.609 --> 0:19:39.150 that he would have such a good time with his friends, 0:19:39.150 --> 0:19:44.090 he would sit at late dinners and parties and have 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.970 just the grandest time. I feel like Jesus would be 0:19:46.970 --> 0:19:51.590 such a fun party guest that the Pharisees accused him 0:19:51.619 --> 0:19:55.400 of being a drunkard and a glutton like Jesus knew 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:58.159 how to receive food as a good gift, and it 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:02.180 brought joy and satisfaction because that was in its proper place. 0:20:02.180 --> 0:20:04.790 He received it as a good gift from his father. 0:20:04.790 --> 0:20:08.030 So every good and beautiful gift in our lives, whether 0:20:08.030 --> 0:20:11.420 it's cuddling a baby and seeing the twinkle in their 0:20:11.420 --> 0:20:16.520 eyes or playing catch with a son or a daughter or, 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:19.399 I don't know, seeing the sun rise and watching how 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.610 the sky is painted, all the beautiful colors or watching 0:20:22.609 --> 0:20:26.660 your your team, your favorite sports team win a game 0:20:26.690 --> 0:20:31.160 when God is in that place that he is our 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:35.330 true delight. All these other things we can receive as 0:20:35.330 --> 0:20:39.090 gifts of joy from him and. And what a beautiful, 0:20:39.090 --> 0:20:41.880 what a beautiful reality that God is a good father 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:45.390 who gives good gifts to his children. I think rather 0:20:45.390 --> 0:20:49.950 than trying to push those aside and pretend they don't matter, 0:20:49.950 --> 0:20:52.500 I think that does a disservice to our good father 0:20:52.500 --> 0:20:55.800 who blesses us with so many gifts. I think instead, 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:59.250 when we learn to delight our souls in the Lord, 0:20:59.250 --> 0:21:03.270 we can then receive all those things as the good 0:21:03.270 --> 0:21:06.149 gifts that they're meant to be, that then reveal the 0:21:06.150 --> 0:21:08.460 heart of the father who delights in us. 0:21:08.490 --> 0:21:12.869 Yeah, yeah. You know, in my research on the five 0:21:12.900 --> 0:21:17.370 love languages, I've seen how people feel love in different ways. 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:19.619 You know what makes one person feel loved? Does it 0:21:19.619 --> 0:21:22.830 make another person feel loved? And I actually wrote a 0:21:22.830 --> 0:21:26.250 book called God Speaks Your Love Language, in which I 0:21:26.250 --> 0:21:30.179 deal with conversion experiences, for example, that we have different 0:21:30.210 --> 0:21:35.129 types of conversion experiences because God's speaking to people individually 0:21:35.130 --> 0:21:38.209 so that they sense the love of God. Have you 0:21:38.210 --> 0:21:41.150 observed this? Do you think people feel close to God 0:21:41.180 --> 0:21:45.350 in different ways? What's your response to that idea? 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:47.959 I'm so glad you brought that up, Gary, because I 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:51.230 read that book a few years ago, and it was 0:21:51.230 --> 0:21:54.200 such a light bulb moment for me to be like, oh, 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:57.860 this makes so much sense. Like, God is the God 0:21:57.859 --> 0:22:00.470 of love. So of course he would speak all the 0:22:00.470 --> 0:22:04.580 love languages. And I loved how you walked through Scripture 0:22:04.580 --> 0:22:07.490 to show ways in which God expresses his love in 0:22:07.490 --> 0:22:10.220 all these ways. And I found that to be true 0:22:10.220 --> 0:22:13.639 in my own life. Um, the way that I feel 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:16.580 close to God is different from how my husband feels 0:22:16.580 --> 0:22:18.800 close to God, and is different from how my friends 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:24.860 feel close to God. And once we accept that they're 0:22:24.859 --> 0:22:29.960 all gifts, like avenues and channels of love and adoration, 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:32.810 ways that we experience God's love, and ways that we 0:22:32.810 --> 0:22:36.050 can express our love back to him, there's such freedom 0:22:36.050 --> 0:22:39.879 that comes with that. That there is no one size 0:22:39.910 --> 0:22:43.030 fits all quiet time formula in the Bible. There's nowhere 0:22:43.030 --> 0:22:46.120 in Scripture that says that you need to get up 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:48.310 before the sun gets up and read your Bible for 0:22:48.310 --> 0:22:52.180 an hour, or try to read, you know, the Bible 0:22:52.180 --> 0:22:54.280 in a year. I've done that multiple times. I know 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:56.560 I keep picking on it, but it's been a good 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.500 experience for me in seasons of life, and at the 0:22:59.500 --> 0:23:02.139 same time, I've gone through seasons where that wasn't a 0:23:02.140 --> 0:23:06.219 possibility and I dealt with so much guilt and shame 0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:13.450 because of a self-imposed project. Was God truly displeased with 0:23:13.450 --> 0:23:16.750 me that I fell behind somewhere in numbers, or was 0:23:16.750 --> 0:23:19.420 that my own expectation of I think this is what 0:23:19.450 --> 0:23:24.070 God wants from me? Searching scripture and saying, how does 0:23:24.070 --> 0:23:28.179 God invite us to draw near to him, brought such 0:23:28.180 --> 0:23:32.710 liberation to see that there's no formula. And so there's 0:23:32.710 --> 0:23:37.160 this freedom that there's one way to God the Father, 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:40.460 and that is through Jesus Christ the Son. And if 0:23:40.490 --> 0:23:44.480 you come to God through Jesus, there are a multitude 0:23:44.510 --> 0:23:46.879 of ways that you can do that. So you can 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:50.000 listen to the audio Bible as you drive to work, 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:54.500 or you might write a verse on your hand and 0:23:54.500 --> 0:23:56.630 look at it throughout the day and meditate on it 0:23:56.630 --> 0:24:00.800 and memorize it and think about how does this reveal 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:03.470 the heart of God to me? Just meditating on that 0:24:03.470 --> 0:24:06.620 one verse you might spend. I did this last year. 0:24:06.619 --> 0:24:09.470 I spent a whole year in the sermon on the Mount, 0:24:09.470 --> 0:24:13.340 and I would listen to those three chapters morning by morning, 0:24:13.340 --> 0:24:18.139 just letting those words wash over me. Um, I love 0:24:18.140 --> 0:24:21.800 that God invites us to come to him the way 0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:24.350 that he created us to. And so some of us 0:24:24.380 --> 0:24:27.110 are auditory learners and some of us are visual learners, 0:24:27.109 --> 0:24:30.170 and some of us are kinesthetic learners. And so what 0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:33.680 what works for me, the way that I learn is 0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:35.980 going to be different than the way my friend Amanda 0:24:35.980 --> 0:24:39.970 or Melissa learns. So why would I impose on them 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:43.419 a certain standard of oh, this is what you must do, 0:24:43.450 --> 0:24:46.360 or this is what good Christians do? If that's not 0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:50.350 in Scripture, then we're treading on legalistic ground there. We're 0:24:50.350 --> 0:24:53.680 starting to put on other people a burden that was 0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:56.410 never from God. So I think what he invites us 0:24:56.410 --> 0:25:01.899 to is this glorious invitation with open hands, Jesus saying, 0:25:01.900 --> 0:25:05.439 come to me. Come to me. And and if you 0:25:05.440 --> 0:25:08.230 don't know how to do that, if you feel like, well, 0:25:08.260 --> 0:25:11.560 I've tried all these different ways that work for different people, 0:25:11.560 --> 0:25:14.170 and I feel like it doesn't really work for me. 0:25:14.500 --> 0:25:18.189 Then I invite listeners to ask God, ask him to 0:25:18.220 --> 0:25:22.210 show you, how did you create me to connect with you? 0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:26.110 How did you create me to experience your love? Maybe 0:25:26.109 --> 0:25:29.770 it's going for a walk in the forest and talking 0:25:29.800 --> 0:25:31.870 to God out in nature. Maybe that's how you feel 0:25:31.900 --> 0:25:36.209 closest to God. Or. Or maybe it's gathering with others 0:25:36.210 --> 0:25:39.900 in corporate worship and singing your heart out, or sitting 0:25:39.900 --> 0:25:43.500 quietly at the piano at home and playing some worship 0:25:43.500 --> 0:25:46.350 songs to the Lord. There are so many different ways 0:25:46.350 --> 0:25:49.619 that God invites us to come to Him in Jesus Christ. 0:25:49.650 --> 0:25:52.410 I think as the body of Christ, we can do 0:25:52.410 --> 0:25:57.630 a better job celebrating that diversity and the variety, rather 0:25:57.630 --> 0:26:01.050 than comparing and trying to force people into a box 0:26:01.080 --> 0:26:03.000 that never came from the Lord. 0:26:06.780 --> 0:26:09.870 Thanks for joining us today for the Building Relationships with 0:26:09.869 --> 0:26:13.229 Doctor Gary Chapman podcast. Gary's the author of the New 0:26:13.260 --> 0:26:16.649 York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. You can 0:26:16.650 --> 0:26:19.350 find out more about your love language or our featured 0:26:19.350 --> 0:26:23.940 resource by going to Building relationships.us. You'll see a link 0:26:23.940 --> 0:26:26.880 there to the book by our guest, doctor Bob Paul. 0:26:26.910 --> 0:26:31.170 It's titled Empowered to Love Discovering your God given Power 0:26:31.170 --> 0:26:33.760 to create a marriage you both love. Just go to 0:26:33.790 --> 0:26:35.080 building relationships. 0:26:35.350 --> 0:26:43.990 Us I Cherita you talk about devotional personalities and personality types. 0:26:44.350 --> 0:26:47.830 How do you find out your devotional personality type? 0:26:47.859 --> 0:26:51.070 Well, that's a great question, Gary, and I'll be the 0:26:51.070 --> 0:26:54.280 first to say that I don't have, like the authoritative 0:26:54.640 --> 0:26:59.109 manual on this. It comes more so from my experience 0:26:59.109 --> 0:27:03.910 of shepherding people throughout the last ten, 12 years. And 0:27:03.910 --> 0:27:07.660 also I've learned a lot from Gary Thomas and his book, 0:27:07.660 --> 0:27:12.130 Sacred Pathways, that different people connect to God in different ways. 0:27:12.160 --> 0:27:15.609 And so as I've kind of been working on this 0:27:15.609 --> 0:27:19.510 topic and thinking about delighting in the Lord and the 0:27:19.510 --> 0:27:23.410 different ways that we can delight in him, I found 0:27:23.410 --> 0:27:27.010 that people tend to fall in one of these five 0:27:27.010 --> 0:27:32.490 general categories. I'll say like primary, devotional, personality type. I 0:27:32.490 --> 0:27:35.909 think we all can feel close to God in these ways, 0:27:35.910 --> 0:27:38.639 but you might be more likely to connect with one 0:27:38.640 --> 0:27:40.950 than the other, so I'll go through them. But if 0:27:40.950 --> 0:27:44.879 listeners are curious, we actually put together a quiz called 0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:49.530 the Devotional Personality Type Quiz. It's absolutely free. Listeners can 0:27:49.530 --> 0:27:54.179 find it at Delighting Angieslist.com. And we've had over 30,000 0:27:54.180 --> 0:27:56.669 people take this quiz over the last couple of years. 0:27:56.670 --> 0:28:00.179 So we've seen these results pan out again and again. 0:28:00.180 --> 0:28:04.320 But I'll say that the five types that I find 0:28:04.350 --> 0:28:09.960 people tend to relate to or lean into is those 0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:13.680 who feel close to God in worship. I mentioned earlier 0:28:13.680 --> 0:28:19.500 singing corporately or playing songs of of worship or hymns 0:28:19.500 --> 0:28:24.060 at home. There's just something about song and more so 0:28:24.060 --> 0:28:27.660 than song. Feeling like everything they do is an act 0:28:27.660 --> 0:28:31.730 of worship and adoration, delighting in the heart of God. 0:28:31.850 --> 0:28:35.660 So that would be our our radiant worshippers there, those 0:28:35.660 --> 0:28:39.020 who feel close to God through the word and I. 0:28:39.020 --> 0:28:42.920 I'm one of these. I affectionately call us word nerds. 0:28:43.550 --> 0:28:47.510 When I learn something new about God in Scripture, my 0:28:47.510 --> 0:28:51.110 whole face lights up. I feel like God just gave 0:28:51.110 --> 0:28:55.430 me a nugget, an insight into who he is, and I. 0:28:55.430 --> 0:28:58.700 I feel his love toward me. I feel his personal 0:28:58.700 --> 0:29:03.560 revelation in Scripture. I love delighting in his revelation in 0:29:03.560 --> 0:29:05.690 the word. And so there are people who will feel 0:29:05.690 --> 0:29:08.900 close to God that way. We've got word nerds and 0:29:08.900 --> 0:29:11.060 such a fun group. We could talk to you for 0:29:11.060 --> 0:29:15.920 three hours about one theological concept and never tire out. Um, 0:29:15.920 --> 0:29:18.800 and then we have those who feel close to God 0:29:18.800 --> 0:29:23.660 in prayer, and I call these people the Whisperers. Um, 0:29:23.660 --> 0:29:28.550 it's because there are in ongoing, continual conversation with the Lord, 0:29:28.550 --> 0:29:31.920 whether it's in their quiet time with their prayer journal 0:29:31.920 --> 0:29:35.250 and their bringing to God requests and interceding on behalf 0:29:35.250 --> 0:29:38.520 of others, or they're praying as they're washing dishes, they're 0:29:38.520 --> 0:29:41.850 praying as they're running errands, they just have a heart 0:29:41.850 --> 0:29:47.460 posture of ongoing whispers with heaven. And also, these are 0:29:47.460 --> 0:29:51.360 those who are more likely to hear God's voice whispering 0:29:51.360 --> 0:29:54.600 back to them. I talked about the good Shepherd who 0:29:54.600 --> 0:29:57.150 speaks to his sheep, and they hear his voice. They 0:29:57.150 --> 0:30:00.210 recognize his voice. These are the people that you want 0:30:00.210 --> 0:30:03.390 to go to and have in your life. When you 0:30:03.390 --> 0:30:07.350 need intercession, when you need discernment, when you need someone to. 0:30:07.380 --> 0:30:11.250 Would you beseech God with me? And what you'll notice 0:30:11.250 --> 0:30:14.790 about all of these devotional personality types is they are 0:30:14.790 --> 0:30:17.850 all needed in the body of Christ. So we need 0:30:17.850 --> 0:30:22.500 to celebrate that we have word nerds and whisperers and worshipers, 0:30:22.530 --> 0:30:25.560 but we can all grow in these rhythms as well. 0:30:25.560 --> 0:30:29.000 It's just I think one of them might come easier, 0:30:29.000 --> 0:30:31.340 or it might be dominant in our lives than others. 0:30:31.340 --> 0:30:34.130 So we got the worshippers, the word nerds, the whisperers. 0:30:34.130 --> 0:30:37.520 We have what I call the wonder chasers. And these 0:30:37.520 --> 0:30:41.240 are those who feel closest to God when they experience 0:30:41.270 --> 0:30:45.350 awe and wonder. It might be standing on a beach 0:30:45.350 --> 0:30:49.760 and watching the waves crash in and just sensing the 0:30:49.760 --> 0:30:53.750 grandeur of God and their own smallness. And it's in 0:30:53.780 --> 0:30:56.600 that moment that they feel like they have this mountaintop 0:30:56.600 --> 0:30:59.210 experience with God. It might be that they stand on 0:30:59.240 --> 0:31:02.090 their front porch with a mug of coffee, watching the 0:31:02.090 --> 0:31:07.100 sun rise or set and saying, oh, the beauty and 0:31:07.100 --> 0:31:11.300 wonder of a creator who can paint the skies this way. 0:31:11.330 --> 0:31:14.600 These are people who walk through life with eyes wide open. 0:31:14.600 --> 0:31:18.050 And they see wonder wherever they go. They seem to 0:31:18.080 --> 0:31:23.630 retain that childlike admiration for the fingerprints of God throughout 0:31:23.630 --> 0:31:26.090 their lives, and not just nature, but in their own life. 0:31:26.120 --> 0:31:28.470 They'll be the first ones to say you'll never guess 0:31:28.470 --> 0:31:31.469 what God did. It feels like God's always moving in 0:31:31.470 --> 0:31:33.900 their lives in a powerful way, and it's more so 0:31:33.900 --> 0:31:37.680 that they're just awake to the wonder that God has 0:31:37.680 --> 0:31:39.720 placed in each of our lives. So those are the 0:31:39.720 --> 0:31:42.780 wonder chasers. And then the last ones, I'll say, are 0:31:42.780 --> 0:31:47.760 those who feel predominantly delight in God, or sense his 0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:51.510 presence and his delight in them as they walk out 0:31:51.540 --> 0:31:55.740 obedience with God. So these are the the obedient walkers. 0:31:55.800 --> 0:31:58.920 They're the ones who you might hear them say, well, 0:31:58.950 --> 0:32:02.580 God's Spirit told me to call that person or God's 0:32:02.580 --> 0:32:05.880 Spirit really just impressed on my heart that I need 0:32:05.910 --> 0:32:07.860 to do this thing or I need to move in 0:32:07.860 --> 0:32:11.730 this way. And there's just this sense in which they 0:32:11.730 --> 0:32:15.510 are walking in step with the spirit. They're knowing where 0:32:15.540 --> 0:32:18.330 God is moving in the room, where he's moving in 0:32:18.330 --> 0:32:21.240 the world, and they're joining him in what feels like 0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:24.090 such a personal way. And these are the ones who 0:32:24.090 --> 0:32:27.440 are most likely to be active in the church, in 0:32:27.440 --> 0:32:32.000 the community, they're more likely to be activists, to seek justice, 0:32:32.030 --> 0:32:35.810 to to want to see God's kingdom come in the world. 0:32:35.870 --> 0:32:39.200 They're not content with just reading their Bible and praying 0:32:39.200 --> 0:32:41.780 and keeping their faith to themselves. They want to see 0:32:41.780 --> 0:32:44.870 it move out into the world. So they're walking in 0:32:44.870 --> 0:32:48.200 obedience with God in their own personal life and and 0:32:48.200 --> 0:32:51.350 sometimes in a bigger way, too. So we have these 0:32:51.350 --> 0:32:56.900 five devotional personality types, ways in which we experience God's 0:32:56.900 --> 0:33:01.100 delight in us, and we delight in him in in return. 0:33:01.100 --> 0:33:04.490 And I would argue, all of us need all of these. 0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:06.380 Like we all need to be in the word. We 0:33:06.380 --> 0:33:10.010 all need to experience the gifts of God through wonder 0:33:10.010 --> 0:33:13.730 and delight in his heart through worship. I think Jesus, 0:33:13.730 --> 0:33:17.360 when we look at the Gospels, he lived out all 0:33:17.360 --> 0:33:20.210 of these rhythms of delight as well. But I'm sure 0:33:20.210 --> 0:33:22.730 even as listeners, we're we're hearing me talk about these 0:33:22.730 --> 0:33:26.500 five devotional types Hopes that they might find themselves kind 0:33:26.500 --> 0:33:30.160 of gravitating toward one. So my encouragement would be, if 0:33:30.190 --> 0:33:32.770 you're like, ah, I'm not sure which one is mine. Um, 0:33:32.770 --> 0:33:35.740 there's that quiz that you can take, but also if 0:33:35.740 --> 0:33:38.680 you feel like you're in a dry place spiritually, if 0:33:38.680 --> 0:33:41.080 you feel like, gosh, I'm doing all the things, I'm 0:33:41.080 --> 0:33:43.030 reading my Bible and going to church and praying, and 0:33:43.030 --> 0:33:46.810 I just don't sense God's delight. Maybe he's inviting you 0:33:46.810 --> 0:33:51.730 to lean into that one primary way that he wants 0:33:51.730 --> 0:33:54.610 to express his delight toward you. Maybe it's time for 0:33:54.610 --> 0:33:58.719 more walks outside, or it's time to really dig into Scripture. 0:33:58.720 --> 0:34:01.780 That might be God's invitation to delight for you. Today. 0:34:02.170 --> 0:34:05.320 I think our listeners can identify with what you're saying there, 0:34:05.320 --> 0:34:07.780 so let me encourage you. If you're listening, go to 0:34:07.810 --> 0:34:12.759 that website Delighting in jesus.com and take that quiz, I 0:34:12.760 --> 0:34:15.670 thank you. I think you'll find it helpful, but let 0:34:15.670 --> 0:34:19.660 me change the subject. A.W. Tozer said that what comes 0:34:19.660 --> 0:34:23.050 into our minds when we think about God is the 0:34:23.050 --> 0:34:27.440 most important thing about us. Now you see that a 0:34:27.440 --> 0:34:31.489 little differently. How would you respond to that idea? 0:34:31.520 --> 0:34:35.750 Well, I really love that quote by A.W. Tozer, actually. 0:34:35.780 --> 0:34:38.509 And I see his point. I think how we view 0:34:38.510 --> 0:34:42.049 God is so important, but it's actually I stumbled on 0:34:42.050 --> 0:34:45.740 a quote by C.S. Lewis, actually, that he disagrees with A.W. 0:34:45.739 --> 0:34:49.430 Tozer on this, and I found that exchange fascinating in 0:34:49.460 --> 0:34:53.360 that I would say Lewis agrees. Yes, that what we 0:34:53.360 --> 0:34:56.750 think about God is important. But Lewis would say What 0:34:56.780 --> 0:35:03.080 God thinks about us is infinitely more important. We need 0:35:03.080 --> 0:35:07.730 to think about what is God's posture toward us. Is 0:35:07.730 --> 0:35:10.820 he an angry God? I mean, one of the most 0:35:10.820 --> 0:35:14.810 influential sermons in American history is Jonathan Edwards Sinners in 0:35:14.810 --> 0:35:19.160 the Hands of an Angry God. And in my own life, I. 0:35:19.160 --> 0:35:24.609 I grew up thinking that God's primary disposition toward me 0:35:24.610 --> 0:35:30.370 was one of expectation and, by implication, disappointment, that that 0:35:30.370 --> 0:35:33.219 God had such high hopes for me. And here I go, 0:35:33.219 --> 0:35:36.730 sinning again. Here I go, falling into the same temptation. 0:35:36.760 --> 0:35:40.060 He must be so disappointed. He must be so angry. 0:35:40.060 --> 0:35:44.740 And I think Tozer would agree in this that we 0:35:44.739 --> 0:35:48.550 often type our view of God on our experience of 0:35:48.550 --> 0:35:52.359 our own fathers. How we experience our fathers is often 0:35:52.360 --> 0:35:55.509 how we view God. And so if we had fathers 0:35:55.510 --> 0:35:58.750 who were angry, we're more likely to think that God 0:35:58.750 --> 0:36:01.960 is angry. If we had fathers who would set aside 0:36:01.960 --> 0:36:04.540 what they were working on to turn toward us. When 0:36:04.540 --> 0:36:08.410 we walked in the room to greet us with compassion 0:36:08.410 --> 0:36:10.870 and excitement, if they wanted to listen to what we 0:36:10.870 --> 0:36:13.689 had to say about our day, then we're more likely 0:36:13.690 --> 0:36:16.690 to think that God's disposition toward us is that he 0:36:16.690 --> 0:36:19.359 wants to hear from us, that he's eager to to 0:36:19.390 --> 0:36:23.609 listen in prayer. So I think, yes, it's important how 0:36:23.610 --> 0:36:26.460 we view God. And I think there's good work for 0:36:26.460 --> 0:36:29.580 us to do to unpack how much of our theology 0:36:29.580 --> 0:36:32.549 and how we view God is scriptural, and how much 0:36:32.550 --> 0:36:35.580 of it is just what we've inherited from our culture 0:36:35.580 --> 0:36:38.430 or our own experience growing up. But I would agree 0:36:38.430 --> 0:36:43.200 with Lewis. I think more important is how God views us. 0:36:43.230 --> 0:36:47.310 Is God's disposition toward us one of pity, one of 0:36:47.310 --> 0:36:51.210 anger or disappointment, or is it something else? And this 0:36:51.210 --> 0:36:55.050 was just such an incredible journey for me to go 0:36:55.050 --> 0:36:59.580 through Scripture to study this theme from Genesis to Revelation. 0:36:59.580 --> 0:37:03.540 I actually went through and read through the Bible. Not 0:37:03.540 --> 0:37:06.540 in a year. It took like 18 months for this project, 0:37:06.540 --> 0:37:10.049 but I read through the Bible cover to cover, underlining 0:37:10.050 --> 0:37:14.460 every single time the words joy or happiness or delight 0:37:14.460 --> 0:37:18.060 or celebration showed up. Actually, one of the Hebrew words 0:37:18.060 --> 0:37:23.110 for Blessed Asher is also translated happy. It means a 0:37:23.110 --> 0:37:26.230 profound happiness is what? Blessed means. So I would look 0:37:26.230 --> 0:37:30.370 up those verses and cross-references as well. And as I 0:37:30.370 --> 0:37:32.920 did this deep dive into the theme of joy and 0:37:32.920 --> 0:37:37.450 happiness in Scripture, what I found is that God's disposition 0:37:37.450 --> 0:37:40.899 toward us is not one of pity. It's not one 0:37:40.900 --> 0:37:45.129 of anger or judgment, but rather the Lord, the Lord, 0:37:45.130 --> 0:37:50.020 compassionate and gracious and kind, that he has toward us 0:37:50.020 --> 0:37:54.190 a heart of love and joy and delight, that again 0:37:54.190 --> 0:37:57.489 and again that is who God presents himself to be. 0:37:57.640 --> 0:38:00.219 He says, I don't delight in the death of the wicked. 0:38:00.219 --> 0:38:04.629 I don't delight in punishing my children. Even discipline comes 0:38:04.630 --> 0:38:08.350 from a heart of love and a longing to restore 0:38:08.350 --> 0:38:11.830 to that place of joy and fulfillment. And I think 0:38:11.830 --> 0:38:15.370 when we understand God this way, when we think God 0:38:15.370 --> 0:38:19.270 actually cares about our joy. God actually longs for us 0:38:19.270 --> 0:38:24.150 to experience the fullness of joy in his presence. That 0:38:24.150 --> 0:38:28.590 changes then how we engage in these spiritual disciplines. It 0:38:28.590 --> 0:38:33.360 changes how we set goals for our year. It changes 0:38:33.360 --> 0:38:38.069 how we make decisions because then we want to experience 0:38:38.070 --> 0:38:41.790 that love, the love of a God who delights in us. 0:38:41.790 --> 0:38:43.589 I think it makes all the difference. 0:38:44.400 --> 0:38:48.450 Actually, many people view the Old Testament as a god 0:38:48.450 --> 0:38:51.960 of anger and the New Testament a God of love. 0:38:52.200 --> 0:38:53.969 How do you respond to that? 0:38:54.750 --> 0:38:58.560 Yeah. Well, again, if we take that to Scripture and say, well, 0:38:58.560 --> 0:39:01.589 what does the Bible say? Does the Bible present God 0:39:01.590 --> 0:39:05.220 as an angry, vengeful God in the Old Testament? Is 0:39:05.219 --> 0:39:08.759 that true? And what we find is exactly the opposite. 0:39:08.790 --> 0:39:13.530 There are hundreds of references to the God who delights 0:39:13.530 --> 0:39:16.109 just a few of them, like Psalm 149, the Lord 0:39:16.140 --> 0:39:20.420 takes pleasure in his people. He adorns the humble with salvation. 0:39:20.630 --> 0:39:24.200 Psalm 18. He brought me out to a spacious place. 0:39:24.230 --> 0:39:29.180 He rescued me because he delighted in me. Luke 15 0:39:29.180 --> 0:39:31.310 I tell you, in the same way there will be 0:39:31.310 --> 0:39:34.700 more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than 0:39:34.700 --> 0:39:38.000 over 99 righteous people who don't need repentance. That is 0:39:38.000 --> 0:39:42.859 God the Father who is celebrating the return of his children. 0:39:43.070 --> 0:39:47.120 Zephaniah 317 the Lord your God is among you, a 0:39:47.120 --> 0:39:51.770 warrior who saves. He will rejoice over you with gladness. 0:39:51.800 --> 0:39:54.590 He will be quiet in his love. He will delight 0:39:54.590 --> 0:39:59.240 in you with singing. And here's the thing we cannot 0:39:59.239 --> 0:40:02.810 say that the Old Testament God is an angry God. 0:40:02.810 --> 0:40:06.050 And the New Testament Jesus is a loving and kind 0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:09.890 Jesus because they are one and the same. Jesus is 0:40:09.890 --> 0:40:14.510 God the Father. Jesus and the Holy Spirit share in 0:40:14.510 --> 0:40:18.120 these characteristics of love and joy and delight. In fact, 0:40:18.120 --> 0:40:21.390 when Jesus came on the scene, he came to make 0:40:21.390 --> 0:40:25.440 manifest God. He came to show us the heart of 0:40:25.440 --> 0:40:29.339 the father. So what we see in Jesus, the one 0:40:29.340 --> 0:40:32.850 who describes himself as gentle and humble in heart, the 0:40:32.850 --> 0:40:35.850 one who opens up his arms and says to the children, 0:40:35.850 --> 0:40:38.880 come to me like, let the children come to me. Don't, 0:40:38.880 --> 0:40:42.120 don't stop them. The one who enjoyed a good party 0:40:42.120 --> 0:40:45.630 and the one who would look out on on the 0:40:45.630 --> 0:40:48.419 landscape and say, look at the birds of the air. 0:40:48.450 --> 0:40:52.439 Look at the lilies of the field, that Jesus, that 0:40:52.440 --> 0:40:56.040 is who the father is revealed to be, because Jesus 0:40:56.040 --> 0:40:58.649 revealed to us the heart of the father. And so 0:40:58.650 --> 0:41:01.350 the father then is the one who delights. I just 0:41:01.350 --> 0:41:07.500 think we need to work so hard to hold on 0:41:07.530 --> 0:41:11.730 to this image of an angry, vengeful God when we 0:41:11.730 --> 0:41:16.460 read Scripture because the story from Genesis to Revelation is 0:41:16.460 --> 0:41:20.840 the heart of a good God who longs to bring 0:41:20.840 --> 0:41:24.050 his people and restore them back to relationship with him, 0:41:24.050 --> 0:41:28.130 so they are one in the same. The God who 0:41:28.130 --> 0:41:32.420 created humans longs to be in relationship, longs to restore 0:41:32.450 --> 0:41:36.200 joy and delight. And when we look at revelation, it 0:41:36.200 --> 0:41:40.160 is the promise of that, that joy fulfilled. It is 0:41:40.160 --> 0:41:43.310 the promise that from Genesis what the God of the 0:41:43.310 --> 0:41:45.800 Old Testament promised and what the Jesus of the New 0:41:45.800 --> 0:41:49.910 Testament came to reveal that in revelation it will finally 0:41:49.910 --> 0:41:54.410 be fulfilled. God will once again dwell with his people, 0:41:54.410 --> 0:41:57.440 and we will be his people, and he will be 0:41:57.440 --> 0:42:02.299 our God. And we will finally experience the the longing, 0:42:02.330 --> 0:42:05.810 the fulfillment of that longing and what Jesus describes as 0:42:05.810 --> 0:42:08.060 a wedding. It's going to be a celebration. It's going 0:42:08.090 --> 0:42:10.850 to be a party. That is what the God the 0:42:10.850 --> 0:42:14.660 Father and Jesus the Son and the Spirit of God 0:42:14.660 --> 0:42:20.049 in us are all working toward that part of the story, 0:42:20.080 --> 0:42:23.020 when all our hopes will finally be fulfilled in him. 0:42:24.310 --> 0:42:28.900 Ashreeta much in your new book combines recent brain science 0:42:28.900 --> 0:42:33.759 with deep biblical study. What does scientific discoveries have to 0:42:33.760 --> 0:42:37.120 do with learning to delight in Jesus? 0:42:37.750 --> 0:42:40.660 That's such a great question, Gary. And it's part of 0:42:40.660 --> 0:42:44.140 what's been the most fun research for this book, is 0:42:44.140 --> 0:42:50.890 learning how God wired our brains, created our brains for joy. Uh, 0:42:50.890 --> 0:42:54.549 and and what we're learning from brain science doesn't at 0:42:54.550 --> 0:42:57.190 all contradict Scripture. If anything, God is the one who 0:42:57.190 --> 0:43:02.590 created our brains. So what scientists are learning about neural pathways, 0:43:02.590 --> 0:43:05.739 and a lot that I would love to share just 0:43:05.739 --> 0:43:07.540 so much about this. But I just want to say like, 0:43:07.570 --> 0:43:11.350 this is God's very good idea. And part of what 0:43:11.380 --> 0:43:15.440 was just fascinating to me to learn was that God 0:43:15.440 --> 0:43:18.920 created a part of our brains to be kind of 0:43:18.950 --> 0:43:23.060 the Joy center. It's the right frontal cortex. It's right 0:43:23.060 --> 0:43:26.090 above our right eyeball. And this is the place where 0:43:26.090 --> 0:43:32.300 we can experience peace. We make rational decisions, we experience 0:43:32.300 --> 0:43:35.900 joy and goodness and balance. And then there's another part 0:43:35.900 --> 0:43:39.140 of our brain, the amygdala. It's kind of in the 0:43:39.140 --> 0:43:43.220 back of our head that triggers our fight or flight response. 0:43:43.219 --> 0:43:47.509 It's where we experience stress. And so when we're scrolling 0:43:47.510 --> 0:43:52.100 our phones and there's bad news, when there's comparison, when 0:43:52.100 --> 0:43:55.340 we're just kind of in that doom scroll mode, or 0:43:55.340 --> 0:43:59.029 when we experience stress in our lives and our families 0:43:59.030 --> 0:44:02.690 and our bodies, we will respond out of the amygdala. 0:44:02.690 --> 0:44:05.719 And both of these parts of our brains will flood 0:44:05.719 --> 0:44:08.990 our bodies with hormones. But what we've learned in recent 0:44:09.020 --> 0:44:12.680 years is we are spending so much time in the amygdala, 0:44:12.680 --> 0:44:15.910 we're spending so much time in that stressful part of 0:44:15.910 --> 0:44:19.030 our brains that we're having a hard time coming out 0:44:19.030 --> 0:44:24.070 of that. We're seeing increasing levels of depression and anxiety 0:44:24.070 --> 0:44:30.250 and sleeplessness and insomnia. So many concerns about our mental 0:44:30.250 --> 0:44:33.370 health and our physical health because we're living out of 0:44:33.370 --> 0:44:36.279 the amygdala. And what I've learned is it doesn't have 0:44:36.280 --> 0:44:39.879 to be that way. I personally found myself stuck in 0:44:39.910 --> 0:44:43.270 the amygdala going back to the beginning of the interview, 0:44:43.270 --> 0:44:45.940 when I said I found myself in that dark place. 0:44:46.300 --> 0:44:49.000 That's where I was. And I share more about that 0:44:49.000 --> 0:44:51.640 in in this book. But what brought me such hope 0:44:51.640 --> 0:44:54.460 is we don't have to be stuck there just because 0:44:54.460 --> 0:44:58.989 we find ourselves repeating patterns of pessimism or criticism or 0:44:58.989 --> 0:45:03.459 bitterness or hopelessness or anxiety. We don't have to live 0:45:03.460 --> 0:45:07.180 that way. God created our brains with the ability to 0:45:07.210 --> 0:45:12.200 renew and rewire, and this is called neuroplasticity. The more 0:45:12.200 --> 0:45:16.130 we repeat something, the easier it will become for our brains. 0:45:16.160 --> 0:45:18.380 And so one way I call it the joy pathway. 0:45:18.380 --> 0:45:20.569 One way for us to get from the amygdala in 0:45:20.570 --> 0:45:23.540 the back of the brain, back to the right frontal cortex. 0:45:23.540 --> 0:45:26.419 That joy center is through the rhythms that I share 0:45:26.420 --> 0:45:29.690 in the book. Things like having our eyes open to 0:45:29.719 --> 0:45:33.319 thank God for the good things in our lives. Celebrating 0:45:33.320 --> 0:45:36.500 what we're learning about Jesus in Scripture. Even something as 0:45:36.500 --> 0:45:39.410 simple as going for a walk in the morning and 0:45:39.410 --> 0:45:44.629 allowing the sunshine to fill our lives with good things. Actually, 0:45:44.630 --> 0:45:48.020 the the morning sun rays do something in our brains 0:45:48.020 --> 0:45:51.830 where it helps set our circadian rhythm. I mean, all 0:45:51.860 --> 0:45:54.920 of these might sound like, okay. Ashreeta what's the point here? 0:45:54.950 --> 0:45:58.160 What's what's the connection is that all of these things 0:45:58.160 --> 0:46:03.200 are simple habits that God gives us to restore joy. 0:46:03.200 --> 0:46:07.160 And in my own life, as I started practicing these 0:46:07.190 --> 0:46:12.550 simple joy, habits, rhythms of delight, ways in which to 0:46:12.580 --> 0:46:16.090 receive the delight of God in my life. He started 0:46:16.090 --> 0:46:19.900 rewiring my brain, and I found myself spending less time 0:46:19.900 --> 0:46:24.399 in the amygdala, less time stressed and sorrowful, and more 0:46:24.400 --> 0:46:28.000 time in a place of peace and tranquility and joy. 0:46:28.000 --> 0:46:31.750 And all of that is possible because of how God 0:46:31.750 --> 0:46:34.870 created our brains. And so this brain science that we're learning, 0:46:34.870 --> 0:46:38.410 that I've based the whole of my book, these rhythms 0:46:38.410 --> 0:46:41.709 of delight are based on brain science. And the Bible 0:46:41.739 --> 0:46:45.310 is just saying, okay, this is what scientists are discovering, 0:46:45.310 --> 0:46:47.140 and they're not quite sure what to do with it. 0:46:47.140 --> 0:46:50.049 And yet God invites us to take what we're learning 0:46:50.050 --> 0:46:52.930 in science and combine it with what he's shown us 0:46:52.930 --> 0:46:56.200 in Scripture. And then that's how he's going to restore 0:46:56.230 --> 0:46:58.359 our joy. That's how he's going to heal our bodies 0:46:58.360 --> 0:47:01.450 and our hearts and our minds and our spirits. Those 0:47:01.450 --> 0:47:05.379 who look to him for help, Psalm 34 says, will 0:47:05.380 --> 0:47:09.040 be radiant with joy. No shadow of shame will darken 0:47:09.070 --> 0:47:12.420 their faces. And that's what he has done in my life, 0:47:12.420 --> 0:47:14.370 is what I want to shout from the rooftops. I 0:47:14.370 --> 0:47:16.440 think it's the work that he wants to do in 0:47:16.440 --> 0:47:19.980 our generation. And so that is my invitation to those 0:47:19.980 --> 0:47:24.090 who are listening. Would you ask God to restore joy 0:47:24.090 --> 0:47:26.400 in your life? He's going to do it through your brain. 0:47:26.400 --> 0:47:27.960 He's going to do it through your life. He's going 0:47:27.989 --> 0:47:31.560 to do it through community, through the local church, through Scripture. 0:47:31.560 --> 0:47:33.990 But that is his heart posture to invite us to 0:47:34.020 --> 0:47:35.129 delight in him. 0:47:35.969 --> 0:47:39.060 Let's read. I think our listeners can identify with that. 0:47:39.060 --> 0:47:41.969 And let me just thank you for being with us today. 0:47:42.420 --> 0:47:46.200 Delighting in Jesus. And I believe this book is going 0:47:46.230 --> 0:47:49.200 to help a lot of people do just that. So 0:47:49.200 --> 0:47:51.630 thank you again for writing the book. Thank you for 0:47:51.630 --> 0:47:54.239 being with us today on building relationships. 0:47:54.270 --> 0:47:56.460 Thank you so much for having me, Gary. It's been 0:47:56.460 --> 0:47:59.370 my joy to be here, and I so appreciate the 0:47:59.370 --> 0:48:02.340 work that you've done that has led to more of 0:48:02.340 --> 0:48:05.610 experiencing God's love in my own life. Thank you. 0:48:06.690 --> 0:48:11.710 A delightful guest today On building relationships, Asher read his book. 0:48:11.739 --> 0:48:14.680 One of the reviews says this her words are a 0:48:14.680 --> 0:48:18.310 cool breeze on a sweltering day. I hope that's happened 0:48:18.340 --> 0:48:20.739 in your heart as you've listened today. Go to building 0:48:20.739 --> 0:48:25.180 relationships us. You'll see more about delighting in Jesus rhythms 0:48:25.180 --> 0:48:29.469 to restore joy. When you feel burdened, broken, or burned 0:48:29.469 --> 0:48:33.190 out again, go to Building Relationships. Dot us. 0:48:33.190 --> 0:48:36.610 And next week, if you have a struggle in parenting 0:48:36.610 --> 0:48:40.030 an adult child, don't miss our conversation. 0:48:40.060 --> 0:48:43.149 Doctor Chapman shares wisdom on your new life with your 0:48:43.150 --> 0:48:46.420 adult children in one week. Our thanks to our production 0:48:46.420 --> 0:48:50.410 team Steve Wick and Janice. Backing building relationships with Doctor 0:48:50.410 --> 0:48:54.040 Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association 0:48:54.040 --> 0:48:57.670 with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. 0:48:57.670 --> 0:48:59.050 Thanks for listening.