S1: Have you noticed? Our culture seems to be collapsing around us.
S1: Our leaders, our church leaders are struggling. What would the
S1: Lord have us be during this time of struggle and strife? Well,
S1: stay with me. We'll talk about that in just a moment. Hello, friends.
S1: Welcome to Open Line with Doctor Michael Wright. This is
S1: Moody Radio's Bible study across America. My name is Michael Riedel.
S1: I'm professor of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute.
S1: Also happened to be the academic dean there. And here
S1: we are sitting around the radio kitchen table with our
S1: Bibles open, our coffee cups steaming. You can call right
S1: now with your questions about the Bible, God, or the
S1: spiritual life. If you have a question and you'd like
S1: to call, now's the time to do it. Here's the
S1: phone number (877) 548-3675. Let me give you that again. (877) 548-3675.
S1: And I have to remind people I always hear from
S1: from listeners. They say it's hard to get through. I
S1: try to get through. Well, I would love for you
S1: to get through. Best time to get through is to
S1: call right now at the beginning of the hour. (877) 548-3675.
S1: Tricia McMillan is producing today and Tara is helping out.
S1: Glad you're here today, Tara. Chris Segard is handling all
S1: things technical. He's engineering and tiara, not tiara. Tiara is
S1: answering the phones. We got so many names that are similar.
S1: I've got to really watch myself here and not get
S1: everyone confused. Anyway, I'm really glad to be together with them.
S1: And again, the phone number 775483675. Go get yourself a
S1: cup of coffee right now if you don't have it yet.
S1: Open your Bible. We're about to study the scriptures together. Well,
S1: school starts this week at Moody Bible Institute. This is
S1: my 31st opening season here at Moody. I started actually
S1: in January. And so, uh, this is my 31st year
S1: of welcoming students in August. I'm looking forward to seeing them.
S1: The campus is starting to just explode with new students,
S1: and I was thinking about why it is that we
S1: have Moody Bible Institute. Uh, D.L. Moody actually said that
S1: his vision was to create Gap men. Today we would
S1: say gap men and women because he included women in
S1: that concept. Gap men and women. Well, what's that about? Well,
S1: here's what what D.L. Moody actually Said, I tell you
S1: what I want and what I have on my heart.
S1: I believe we have got to have gap men and
S1: women to stand between the laity and the ministers, men
S1: who are trained to do ministry work. Take men that
S1: have the gifts and train them for the work of
S1: reaching the people. That's what he was. That's how he
S1: imagined gap. Men and women, people who were not necessarily clergy,
S1: but they were people who would stand in the gap
S1: between the world and the needs of the world and
S1: provide that do the ministry work, which is really a
S1: very biblical vision that all believers, all followers of Jesus,
S1: should be doing the work of ministry. Uh, I think
S1: that that he said this in January of 1863, but
S1: then 23 years later, the Moody Bible Institute was founded.
S1: Where did he get the idea of gap men and women? Well,
S1: it actually comes from the Book of Ezekiel. And in
S1: the book of Ezekiel, chapter 22, verses 23 to 32,
S1: it talks about the problem that Israel was facing before
S1: the first exile. And the problem was that the priests
S1: were worshiping with impurity. It says they made no distinction
S1: between the holy and the common. Secondly, the princes, the
S1: leaders of the country, were leading with dishonesty. Verse 27
S1: of Ezekiel 22 says, they were leading to destroy lives
S1: in order to make a profit. And then the prophets.
S1: Verse 28 talks about them, and it says of the prophets, they, uh, lied.
S1: They saw false visions and lying divinations. They say this
S1: is what the Lord says when the Lord had not
S1: yet spoken. So the leadership of Israel, the prophets, the
S1: priests and the princes were all corrupt in what they
S1: were supposed to be doing. And then in verse 30,
S1: this is what the Lord says, I searched for a
S1: man among them who would repair the wall and stand
S1: in the gap before me on behalf of the land,
S1: so that I might not destroy it. But I found
S1: no one. God was looking for gap men and women.
S1: Not necessarily D.L. Moody, God himself. And that's where D.L.
S1: Moody got the idea. And what does it take to
S1: be a gap man or woman? Well, this is this
S1: is just absolutely crucial, I think, when we say this
S1: is what the problem is with the leaders, it would
S1: be the opposite of what God is looking for, for
S1: people to stand in the gap. So, for example, in
S1: contrast to the priests. God is looking for gap men
S1: and women who will worship with holiness. Verse 26 says this,
S1: that they make no distinction between the holy and the common,
S1: and they do not explain the difference between the clean
S1: and the unclean. And so what they were doing is
S1: they were worshiping with impurity. We need to worship God.
S1: If we're going to be gap men and women. We
S1: need to worship God with purity. Our lives need to
S1: reflect the commands and obedience to His Word. We need
S1: to look, walk in fellowship with the Lord our life.
S1: Our worship should be consistent. Our life should be consistent
S1: with our worship. So we need to worship with purity. Secondly,
S1: if we're going to be gap men and women, we
S1: have to lead with integrity. In verse 27, the problem
S1: with the princes, the officials within the city is that
S1: they were like wolves tearing their prey, shedding blood, destroying
S1: lives in order to make a profit. Well, that's not
S1: leading with integrity. We need to lead people with integrity.
S1: We need to lead for the good of the people
S1: rather than for the good of ourselves. And you say, well,
S1: I'm not a leader. Everyone's a leader. There's someone that
S1: we are leading. It might be just our family. It
S1: might be leading in our community. It might be leading
S1: in some way. In every case, if we're going to
S1: be leaders, what we need to do is lead with
S1: the good of the people in mind that we are
S1: leading rather than our own advantage. And then the third
S1: aspect of being a gap person is unlike those prophets
S1: who spoke falsehood. What we need to do is proclaim
S1: proclaim God's Word truthfully and faithfully. We need to be
S1: people who communicate the truth of God. It says her
S1: prophets plaster whitewash for them by seeing false visions and
S1: lying divinations. And they say, this is what the Lord
S1: has said when the Lord has not spoken. They were
S1: making up their own stories and saying it was God. Well,
S1: no gap men and women, what will we do? We'll
S1: take the Word of God, the truth of the Word
S1: of God, and say, thus says the Lord, this is
S1: what God has spoken, and we'll apply it faithfully in
S1: our own day and our own culture. But we will
S1: be people who apply the Word of God and teach
S1: it truthfully. That's what a gap person is. A gap
S1: person worships with holiness, leads with integrity, and teaches God's
S1: Word faithfully. Well, you say, well, that's for your school.
S1: What are you talking about here? I'm a moody radio listener. Well,
S1: Moody's vision of gap men and women is not just
S1: fulfilled through a school, it's fulfilled through a radio network.
S1: And if you're listening on the radio now. We would
S1: like to see every one of our listeners be a
S1: gap man or woman who will fill the gap and
S1: provide holiness in their worship, provide integrity in their leadership,
S1: and faithfully teach God's Word. Are you ready to become
S1: a gap man or woman? Well, then, let's commit to
S1: worshiping with holiness, leading with integrity, and teaching God's Word faithfully. Well,
S1: we're going to go to the phones right now. We're
S1: going to talk to Weston in South Carolina, listening on Wbbj.
S1: Welcome to Open Line. Weston. How can I help you today?
S2: Yes, doctor. Michael, my name is Weston, and I listen
S2: on Wbbj 99.1, part of the Good News Network. Great.
S2: And I wanted to know where in the Bible does
S2: Paul start his preaching?
S3: What?
S1: Where does he start his preaching? Okay. I think it's
S1: really interesting. Uh, he starts his preaching immediately upon conversion.
S1: As soon as he becomes, uh, transformed. By the way,
S1: he didn't convert from being Jewish to a Christian. What
S1: he did is he converted from being a sinner opposed
S1: to God, to someone that would faithfully follow the the
S1: Lord Jesus. And it says that he was in Damascus.
S1: He has on the road to Damascus. He has the
S1: vision of the Lord Jesus. Right. Uh, and then he
S1: goes to Damascus and he's blind. And Ananias comes and
S1: lays hands on him. And the the scales fell from
S1: his eyes and exit, uh, an exodus in acts 918
S1: at once something like scales fell from his eyes, and
S1: he regained his sight. And then he got up and
S1: he was baptized. and after taking some food, he regained
S1: his strength. And then look at what it says. Uh,
S1: in acts nine 819, Saul was with the disciples in
S1: Damascus for some days now, verse 20, immediately he began
S1: proclaiming Jesus in the synagogues, saying, he is the Son
S1: of God. So when did he start this proclamation? When
S1: did he start preaching? Immediately after coming to know Jesus.
S1: That's when he started. It reminds me of John nine,
S1: where the blind man who the man who was born blind,
S1: he sees and he immediately starts teaching about Jesus. And
S1: they want him to the leadership, religious leadership want him
S1: to explain everything he says. Mm. I don't know all
S1: that this much I know I once was blind, but
S1: now I see. So Paul began immediately. Uh, now he
S1: had a lot of knowledge of Scripture, so he had
S1: a lot to fall back on. But now he saw
S1: the fulfillment and he was proclaiming Jesus as the Messiah.
S1: So that's when he began right away, when he came
S1: to know the Lord. Okay. Weston.
S2: Okay. Yep.
S1: Thanks. Thanks for your call, by the way. That's there's
S1: there's no reason that any of us can ever say
S1: I can't talk about the Lord. All we have to
S1: do is talk about what he did in our lives.
S1: We don't have to have every answer. You know, that's
S1: that's something people will ask us questions. I don't have
S1: all the answers. But I do know this. I once
S1: was blind, but now I see. That's that's what we
S1: need to do. We need to start from where we're
S1: at with what the Lord has done for us. Now, uh,
S1: before we, uh, take a break, I want to mention something. Uh,
S1: I just cited from the Book of Acts. The Book
S1: of Acts, one of my favorite books. Loved it. Since
S1: I came to Moody as a student 50 years ago
S1: this week. And, uh, our our current resources. Doctor Charles
S1: Ryrie everyday Bible commentary on the book of acts. Everyday
S1: commentary on acts. It. You know, the book of acts
S1: is history. It's apologetics. It's the defense of the gospel. Uh,
S1: it's geography, it's biography. Uh, it's so much. And it's
S1: also got some pretty significant theology. How do you navigate
S1: all that? Well, this little book will really help you.
S1: And if you would like to get a copy of it,
S1: what we would like for you to do is we'd
S1: like to send you a copy by. If you give
S1: a gift of any size, just send a gift. We're
S1: happy to send it to you. We want to say
S1: thank you for your gift, and that's the way we're
S1: going to do it. And so if you'd like, uh,
S1: give a gift, uh, and then if you'd like to
S1: do that, all you have to do is go to our, uh,
S1: our website, openline. Line radio.org. And, you know, I've seemed
S1: to have lost the phone number. Trish, what's the number
S1: I'm supposed to call? (888) 644-7122. That's where you have to
S1: go to if you'd like to give a gift or
S1: our website openline radio.org. And don't forget, ask for the
S1: everyday Bible commentary on acts. Well, we're going to come back.
S1: There's a whole bunch of questions. Our phone number here. (877) 548-3675.
S1: And when we come back, we're going to talk to
S1: you about your questions about the Bible, God and the
S1: spiritual life. My name is Michael Read Melnick. You're listening
S1: to Openline. And when we come back, we'll be talking
S1: with you about your understanding and your questions about the scriptures.
S1: Stay with us. We're coming right back. Welcome back to
S1: Open Line. So glad to be with you this morning.
S1: My name is Michael Riedel, and the phone number here
S1: is (877) 548-3675. You can call with any question you might
S1: want to discuss about the Bible or God or the
S1: spiritual life. We're going to go right back to the
S1: phones here. Uh, green in the Chicago area. Interesting. First
S1: name green listening on Wmbi. Welcome to Open Line. How
S1: can I help you?
S4: Oh, God bless you. And thank you for taking my call.
S4: My great grandfather left me that name, so I've been
S4: carrying green a long time. My son say, daddy, I
S4: can't do it to my son because it was hard
S4: in school. But Michael, that that was that was the
S4: history of the green first name.
S1: Yeah. That's interesting. Huh?
S4: Yes. Uh, my question is, in this day and time,
S4: and I love what you say about men and women
S4: standing in the gap. do that leave room for women
S4: to pastor in the church. Biblically?
S1: Well, here's here's what I think. Uh, let's distinguish between
S1: the office of pastor and the gift of pastor. Because
S1: if you read Ephesians 411 and 12, you'll see that
S1: there are there's a gift of pastor, the gift of pastor, teacher.
S1: And and so if you asked me, can women have
S1: the gift of pastor? The answer is absolutely yes. And
S1: when I was leading a congregation, one of the things
S1: I did, I've led several congregations, but one in particular
S1: I planted and I was at I remember distinctly I
S1: was a young, fairly young pastor, and I really felt
S1: like what the women in that congregation needed was mature leadership,
S1: a woman to minister in their lives. My wife would
S1: have could have done that. But we had little kids,
S1: and she was really preoccupied with a lot of that
S1: and needed a little more time with our kids than
S1: than she couldn't be doing that. And the Lord provided
S1: this really dear, very mature woman who lived in Florida
S1: for the, the, uh, December, January, February. But the rest
S1: of the year, about March through November, she was up
S1: in the North, and she shepherded those women because it
S1: was her gift of pastor teacher. She taught Bible study.
S1: She discipled, she encouraged, she counseled. She did all that
S1: great stuff. Uh, and but she just did it because
S1: that was her spiritual gift. It was not her office, uh,
S1: the office that we really have to address is the
S1: office of elder. And in my judgment, like a lead
S1: pastor in a congregation that is a person who has
S1: the office of elder with other elders, and in first
S1: Timothy 211 to 12, that that verse 212, it says,
S1: I don't allow a woman to teach or exercise authority
S1: over a man. In that context, I think that that's
S1: referring to the office of elder. And and so it
S1: seems to me that the office of elder, uh, is
S1: limited to men and not just any man spiritually mature.
S1: Read first Timothy three. It says, what kind of men
S1: can be elders? Not all men, just some men who
S1: exhibit spiritual maturity and have the the calling by God
S1: to lead and shepherd and do those kinds of things.
S1: That's where I think, uh, the office of, of lead
S1: pastor sits. And I think for that reason, it should
S1: be because it's an it's an elder role that's limited
S1: to men. But ministry is not limited to men. Women
S1: minister in a variety of ways. They teach in a
S1: variety of ways. I think, for example, when it says
S1: that don't allow women to teach a man in that passage,
S1: it's talking about the authoritative exposition of God's Word as
S1: the congregation gathers. It doesn't mean a woman can't teach
S1: a Sunday school class, or a woman can't teach a
S1: home group. That's a different kind of setting for teaching,
S1: and I think that's utterly permissible. And then if you
S1: go a little bit further, women can teach women. Women
S1: can teach children, uh, there's all sorts of ways the
S1: small group setting is what I was thinking of when
S1: Priscilla and Aquila taught Apollos the more accurate way of
S1: understanding the scriptures. They did that in a small group setting.
S1: And and Priscilla was there doing it. So there are many,
S1: many ways that women can minister. But the lead pastor position,
S1: I think is limited because it's an elder role. It's
S1: limited to men. Does that help? Okay.
S4: Oh, that helped a lot because my thoughts were in
S4: the last days. Your sons and daughters shall prophesy. And,
S4: you know, that's what my brain was just wrestling with
S4: that thing. I know some good friend, women that are
S4: standing in the pastor's position of their own group of people. And,
S4: you know, I'm just it's just. Well, in this day,
S4: in this day and time, it's just things in my
S4: head and I.
S1: Yeah, well, let me just say green. Even in the
S1: New Testament, when there were prophets operating in the church,
S1: it talks about in first Corinthians 11, a woman can prophesy,
S1: but she had to have her head covered as a
S1: sign of the authority over her. So I don't think that, uh.
S1: And she was allowed to pray as well, uh, publicly
S1: in the congregation. So it's not absolute silence that women
S1: are supposed to carry out or anything like that. Uh, rather,
S1: it's it's actually, uh, that, that, uh, and women, there
S1: are many, many things that women can do. I just
S1: think it's the office of lead pastor because it's an
S1: elder role, any kind of elder role. That's what's limited.
S1: And I don't think it was just cultural. There are
S1: many people who say that's cultural today in our culture,
S1: it's acceptable. If you look at the follow up verses
S1: and verses 13 and 14, Paul gives his explanation as
S1: being the order of creation and the the fall that
S1: look at the terrible consequences of Eve not following the
S1: established order. And so that's what it's about. But, uh,
S1: I don't mean this to say in any way that
S1: women can't, uh, operate and serve God operate as his gap. Women, uh,
S1: having a great effect and impact on our our culture
S1: and our society. Thanks for your call. We're going to
S1: talk to Jim in Michigan. Welcome to Open Line. Jim.
S1: How can I help you today?
S5: Last week, my wife and I were talking and we
S5: got to questioning what is the Tanakh versus the Torah
S5: versus the Talmud. And when a friend of hers says,
S5: I've been listening to this rabbi on the radio, he's
S5: been teaching from the, uh, Talmud or Talmud, I think
S5: is what it was. Uh, should we be concerned or amused?
S1: Well, I don't think either. Uh, okay, here's the word
S1: Tanakh is the. It's an, uh, I think an acronym
S1: you would say of the word for the Old Testament
S1: or the Hebrew Bible. Uh, you've got the Pentateuch, which
S1: is Torah. So take the T, then you've got prophets
S1: Nevi'im that's the N, and then, uh, writings. Ketuvim that's
S1: the that's the the G at the end. It gets
S1: it doesn't sound like it's softened, but it's, uh, softened
S1: from a hard K to a J. So it becomes Tanakh. Uh,
S1: and that just stands for Law and Prophets and Writings,
S1: which is. And so it's an acronym for the Old Testament.
S1: The Talmud means learning. And it's a massive set of
S1: materials that the rabbis engaged in to say, how do
S1: we apply the law in our current circumstances Stances right now.
S1: That's the most of it. It's it's something called it
S1: contains what in Hebrew is called halakha. It means how
S1: to walk or how to. It's the legal decisions, you know,
S1: if we're supposed to, uh, keep kosher. What constitutes kosher?
S1: A rabbi might say. And there's whole books about it
S1: if you're supposed to rest on Shabbat. There's a whole
S1: slew of regulations of what constitutes rest, what's permitted, what's
S1: not permitted. And so that's what the Talmud is about. 80%
S1: of it is what these legal decisions called halakha. There's
S1: another word. Oh, you want to know what the Torah is?
S1: Torah is the Hebrew word, and it means law or instruction.
S1: And it's the first five books of Moses. The Torah also.
S1: It's it's it's become used for the whole Bible. Whole
S1: Hebrew Bible sometimes, or any kind of instruction. So, uh,
S1: that that's that's what that is. If you're, you know,
S1: it depends on why your friend is listening to a
S1: rabbi teach the Talmud. There's some really wonderful wisdom principles
S1: of how to apply the Torah in the Talmud. And, uh,
S1: I think there's a lot of good things you can
S1: learn from it. Uh, does is it? You know, I
S1: teach a course which includes, uh, teaching the Mishnah, which
S1: is part of the Talmud, the Gemara, which together the
S1: mission and the Gemara makes the Talmud, uh, I teach
S1: these rabbinic things so that students can learn the logic
S1: of the Torah, of the Talmud. They can learn how
S1: it's done. It's it's got a different kind of logic
S1: to it. Uh, there's a lot of good things we
S1: can learn from it, a lot of good applications. However, uh,
S1: I would just say it's not the wonderful words of life. It's.
S1: It's not like teaching the scriptures And and so for me,
S1: I would rather focus on the scriptures rather than the Talmud.
S1: But it's it's not going to hurt, I don't think,
S1: if your friend is listening to that. So anyway, thanks
S1: for your call. Appreciate it. We're going to come back
S1: with the mailbag in just a moment, so don't go away.
S1: Tricia McMillan. She's dragging it in right now. This is
S1: Michael Ray Dolnick. You're listening to Open Line. Welcome back
S1: to Open Line. My name is Michael Ray Dolnick. And
S1: joining me in a moment for the Far East. Far,
S1: Far East Broadcasting Company's, uh, mailbag segment. The Febc mailbag
S1: is Tricia McMillan. I'm so grateful that Febc, a Far
S1: Eastern Broadcasting company, is partnering with Openline to bring you
S1: the mailbag. It's a ministry that reaches people through media
S1: in a great way. They also have people on the
S1: ground to follow up there. They're having a great impact.
S1: If you want to learn more, just go to their website, febc.org.
S1: Click on the link that they have there to to
S1: their their podcast. It's called Until All Have Heard featuring
S1: Ed Cannon. You're going to love that. Check it out.
S1: I'm sure you're going to really appreciate this ministry. Well Tricia,
S1: it's good to see you. You too. And to Hira.
S1: I'm glad to see you too.
S6: Thank you. Great to be here. Hi, Michael.
S1: Uh, now, today I, we got our calendars from Chosen
S1: People Ministries, our Jewish art calendars. Yes, yes. And they're beautiful,
S1: aren't they?
S7: They are. They really are.
S1: They're just great. And the thing is, they start in
S1: September because Jewish holidays begin in September. And what I
S1: love about this, it shows this calendar this year. The
S1: theme is God's promises to Israel, God's faithfulness to the
S1: people of Israel in the land of Israel. And it
S1: goes all the way back to biblical times that God
S1: has been faithful to the modern times. Even after October 7th.
S1: God is faithful to his people. And one of the
S1: most important aspects of God's faithfulness to his people is that, uh,
S1: that he faithfully sent the Messiah, the Messiah, Jesus. And so, anyway,
S1: I love this calendar. It's a great calendar. And by
S1: the way, you can get it too. If you're listening,
S1: you'd like a copy. Chosen People Ministries has made it available.
S1: All you have to do to get a free copy
S1: of this beautiful Messianic Jewish art calendar is go to
S1: our website. That's Openline radio.org. Scroll down and you'll see
S1: a link that says A free gift from Chosen People Ministries.
S1: And when you click on that, you'll be taken to
S1: a site where you can sign up for your very
S1: own copy of the Chosen People Ministries Messianic Jewish Art calendar.
S1: And I think you're going to really like it. Tricia
S1: likes it, I do.
S7: Yeah, I do. I'm very I was very excited to
S7: see it today. That's great. Flip through it. Yeah. Yeah.
S1: And to hear you said this is my first one, right? Yes.
S6: My first calendar for 2025. So thank you.
S1: There you go. That's great. So okay. Thank you. Chosen
S1: People Ministries for sending those. And they can send you
S1: one too. Well, we've got the mailbag here. What have
S1: we got?
S7: We do. Our first question is from Edwin in Florida.
S7: Listens to keys in job after job was redeemed for
S7: his righteousness. Did this recovery and redemption justify the beliefs
S7: of his friends who had stated that he was being
S7: punished as a sinner? And that's why all of this
S7: suffering was happening? Zohar would say at the end that
S7: he was right, because he told him that life would
S7: be brighter than noonday and darkness will become morning. in
S7: job 11.
S1: So let me let me see if I understand this question.
S1: Were job's friends right? That job was suffering because of
S1: his sin?
S7: Well, were they right? But. But how does this help
S7: their misguided theology to think that they were right? Whether so,
S7: were they right? Um. And I guess whether if they
S7: weren't completely right, how does this help their misguided theology?
S1: It's not really designed to help their misguided theology. Okay.
S1: It's designed to help our misguided theology and.
S7: Job's misguided theology.
S1: Yeah. Well, yeah. Job's a character in the story. The
S1: book is designed to help our misguided theology. Okay. It's
S1: not even designed to change job. He's just a character.
S1: I mean, he really existed.
S7: He existed.
S1: Yes, but. But he's just a character in the story. Uh,
S1: that's just that's something that I think is so funny
S1: is so often we forget that the purpose of biblical
S1: books is for the reader, not. No, it's it's not
S1: for the characters in the stories. So if we read
S1: the gospel and it talks about Jesus transforming the life
S1: of someone, right, we think, oh, Jesus, that was to
S1: transform that person's life. No, it's for us to learn
S1: about Jesus so we, our lives can be transformed.
S7: But not that the you're not saying that what happened?
S7: So for instance, in John nine to the to the
S7: blind man. Blind man, you're not saying it was not
S7: for the blind man to have him transformed. You're saying
S7: that the writing down of it so that we could
S7: read it exactly for him? That's it. So you're not
S7: saying this wasn't for Joe, but you're saying the writing
S7: down of it? Yeah. The book is not for Joe.
S1: The book is for us. For for the readers. Okay.
S1: And what we learn so often that people think we
S1: get so into the story, we think it's only about
S1: job or it's about Elihu or, you know, Bildad. It's not.
S1: It's about, what are we going to learn about this? Well,
S1: the first thing we learn is that when we look
S1: at someone and say they're suffering for their sin, they're suffering,
S1: so they must have sin. Well, obviously job didn't. And
S1: so so we better rethink our theology. If that's the
S1: kind of theology that we have, we learn not to
S1: be judgmental like that. Second thing is, as we read
S1: this book, we learn, and this is an important lesson
S1: that we can complain to God. We can cry out
S1: to God. We can tell God we feel we're being
S1: treated unfairly. The one thing that job couldn't do was
S1: demand that God come down and explain himself, because this
S1: is a book about God's sovereignty. And so what he
S1: had to learn was that God is sovereign and he
S1: knows what's best for us, even if we don't understand it.
S1: We have to trust him. And that's what job says
S1: at the end when he says in chapter 42 I
S1: had heard the rumors about you, but now my eyes
S1: have seen you. Therefore, I take back my words and
S1: repent in dust and ashes. That was not the sin
S1: his friends accused him of. The secret sin. Write this
S1: the sin was his presumption that God had to explain himself,
S1: and now he sees how great and sovereign God is.
S1: And so what do we learn about that? We can
S1: be like job and that we can complain to God.
S1: We can. We can pour out our hearts to God.
S1: We can. But what we can't do is demand that
S1: God explain himself, that why does God why, why you're
S1: wrong in doing this to me. You come down right
S1: here like we're talking to our teenage son. You get.
S1: You explain yourself, young man. No, you don't do that
S1: with the sovereign of the universe. Uh, because he knows
S1: what's best. So, uh, no, I don't think it justifies
S1: that his friends were right. They were not right. And
S1: it doesn't, uh, doesn't justify Jobe's attitude either. And it
S1: teaches us that we're going to suffer. We every one
S1: of us, by the way, will suffer. You know, you
S1: hear me say it all the time. Most unclaimed promise
S1: in the Bible. In this world you will have tribulation.
S1: I sometimes ask God why this tribulation? Do I really,
S1: really need this? But I. I really guard my heart
S1: against demanding that he explain himself to me because it's wrong. Yeah.
S1: That's wrong. God himself. He knows what's best. Uh, I
S1: plead with him, I talk with him. I'm really transparent
S1: with God. Uh, about like. Like he's surprised to know
S1: how I feel, right? He knows how I feel, but
S1: I express it to him. Uh, but I don't ever
S1: want to demand that he explain himself to me.
S6: Yet what I hear you saying is, I can express
S6: my anger to God. I can express the fact that
S6: I don't understand something, but at the end of the day,
S6: God is still God. God will always be God, and
S6: I have to always give God that reverence.
S1: Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying. That respect for his
S1: sovereignty and his authority. Okay.
S7: All right. Thank you. Thanks for that question, Edwin.
S6: Thank you. Our next question is from Lee in Minnesota,
S6: and he listens through M.c.b. The question is, when we die,
S6: we go to be with the Lord. But are we
S6: in heaven? Or is that for when the new heaven
S6: is created?
S1: Well, we go to be with God in His presence.
S1: It's called heaven. Uh, the reason I know that, you know,
S1: Paul talks about, uh, that he ascended to the third heaven.
S1: The first, the first heaven is the sky, then the
S1: second heaven is the atmosphere, and the third heaven is
S1: the presence of God. So Paul actually was brought by
S1: vision to the presence of God. When we die, we
S1: don't go by vision. We go there actually. And so
S1: we will go to heaven. But the new heavens and
S1: the new earth, the new creation that comes the way.
S1: If you look at the end of days, what we
S1: have now is we're in the age of the church.
S1: What's going to happen? Yet in the future there will
S1: be the rapture, and then we'll have the tribulation period.
S1: After the seven year tribulation, there'll be a thousand year
S1: reign of Jesus on earth, and then there'll be the
S1: some people call it the world to come or the
S1: eternal state. It's going to be a new heavens and
S1: a new earth. And so often we think of heaven
S1: as just when we die. But the new creation is
S1: where we're going to spend eternity. Uh, that new heavens
S1: and the new earth that, uh, with with God at
S1: the center of it. Uh, and we'll see the Lord Jesus, uh,
S1: and he will lead us from there. And that's forever.
S1: And it doesn't give us a lot of detail about
S1: what that's what a lot of people think of as heaven.
S1: You know, the the old Greek, uh, fathers said it
S1: was like sitting on a cloud, plucking a plucking a harp.
S1: I don't think so. It says in revelation 21, his
S1: servants will serve him. So we're going to be serving him.
S1: But I think it is so beyond our comprehension. He's
S1: held back a lot of the details. Yeah. So yeah,
S1: but that's that's heaven, too, in a sense. It's the
S1: new creation, but it's going to be a physical, literal place. Okay.
S7: So the current heaven, if someone were to die today.
S1: They'd go to be with the presence of God.
S7: In, in like a holding place, heaven until the eternal.
S1: It's the presence of God.
S7: That's where they go. Presence of God. But then, then
S7: they will move to.
S1: Then they'll be resurrected at the rapture of someone who
S1: dies today at the rapture will be resurrected physically and
S1: be part of that messianic kingdom on earth, that thousand
S1: year reign. Uh, and then we'll go into eternity, uh,
S1: in the new heavens and new earth with a physical body.
S7: Okay.
S1: Yeah. We're not going to be just on a cloud
S1: with a with a harp. Okay. Yeah.
S7: All right, so right now, their spirit.
S1: Yeah. Just immaterial.
S7: Immaterial. And then they will be reunited and have a
S7: physical body for the eternity. Yep. Okay. There's so many.
S7: It just even even this kind of can be a
S7: head scratcher. Yeah. It is. Trying to figure.
S1: Out. Some people say, you know, people go to soul
S1: sleep and they're resurrected, and that's no. Paul says absent
S1: from the body is present with the Lord. Lord. Second
S1: Corinthians five. It says in Philippians one, Paul wants to go, uh,
S1: wants to stay behind and minister to the Philippians. But
S1: he says, but it's far better for him to go
S1: to be with the Lord. Yeah. So we do go
S1: be with the Lord, but it's just the immaterial parts
S1: of us that go. Okay. Part of us. Okay.
S7: Okay. All right.
S1: Good. Great. Well, we're going to take a break here.
S1: We have time for more questions next hour, you can
S1: always go to Open Line radio.org and click on the
S1: link that says Ask Michael a question and post your
S1: question there. And then Tricia will put it in the
S1: mailbag and we'll try to get to as many. Next
S1: week we have a full mailbag program so you can
S1: listen to that. Uh, you're listening to open right now.
S1: Open line right now with Tricia McMillan. And Tahira and
S1: Michael will be right back. We're back. My name is
S1: Michael Melnick. This program is called Open Line. You can
S1: ask questions about the Bible, God and the spiritual life.
S1: The phone number (877) 548-3675. Now, if you could just see
S1: what I'm looking at. There are about four people in
S1: the booth right into the next room that I'm looking at,
S1: and they're laughing and having a good time. They pay
S1: no attention to the program. I just I'm, I think
S1: it's just no, they are paying attention. But I think
S1: it's so great to look at that team. They're working
S1: so hard to make me sound okay and I so
S1: appreciate them. And also, there's someone else in another room
S1: that I don't even see that's answering the phones. There's
S1: a real team here. You know, so often people think
S1: it's just Nokia on the phone that I'm talking to.
S1: But no, there's there's all of Moody Radio and then
S1: there's the technical people that I don't even see that
S1: make sure that this goes out. It's I love being
S1: part of Moody Radio because of the fantastic team. And
S1: there's some other unseen members of this team for Open Line.
S1: They are our kitchen table partners. Those kitchen table partners
S1: are those people who commit to give monthly to open
S1: line so we can be on the air weekly. So
S1: appreciate them. Uh, they give $30 a month. They can
S1: even get 50% off on the Moody Publishers catalog. And
S1: One of the things that I like to do is
S1: every other week we send a Bible study moment to
S1: our kitchen table partners. It's an audio Bible study, about
S1: 5 or 10 minutes. Get it in your email, click
S1: on it, listen to it. I think it's an encouragement
S1: to walk with the Lord, to have a better understanding
S1: of the scriptures, to various things that we, we've done,
S1: understand the Bible better. Uh, if you'd like to become
S1: a kitchen table partner, uh, you'd consider it. We'd really
S1: appreciate it. One of the best things to do is
S1: just go to our website, openline radio.org. Or you can
S1: call (888) 644-7122. And you can decide to become a kitchen
S1: table partner too. And we would very much appreciate it. Well,
S1: we're going to talk to Lisa in Minnesota listening on Katie.
S1: Big welcome to Open Line Lisa. How can I help
S1: you today.
S8: Hi Michael. My question is I would like clarification on
S8: speaking in tongues. I know, um, you know, the Bible
S8: says that it happened at Pentecost and it was the
S8: language of the land, so that everybody there, you know,
S8: from all around in other countries could understand it. And
S8: nowadays it seems like it's, um, obviously a language just
S8: for in prayer between the prayer and God. So I'm
S8: a little confused on what the what does the Bible
S8: say about what the language of tongues is. And if
S8: you could explain that, that would be great. And is
S8: it a gift or is it can it be taught?
S1: No, it can't be taught. It's a spiritual gift. Uh,
S1: no one.
S8: My daughter, with that saying that they could teach her
S8: in tongues. And I said, yeah, that is not biblical.
S1: No, it's a spiritual gift. Just think about acts two.
S1: When the gift of tongues landed it, the Holy Spirit
S1: fell upon them, and they spoke in languages that they
S1: had not learned, but they were real languages. Same thing
S1: when Cornelius hears the gospel, believes the Holy Spirit falls
S1: on him, and he speaks in languages that he had
S1: not learned. That's in acts ten. So, uh, that that's
S1: what it is. It's being a spiritual gift that enables
S1: a person to speak in a language without having a
S1: foreign language, without having learned it. That's what the gift
S1: of tongues is. And then when you come to the epistles,
S1: some people want to change the meaning. Uh, now, here's
S1: the thing. And and now I want to just say
S1: this before I say anything else. Lisa, people disagree with
S1: me about what I'm about to say. My brothers and sisters,
S1: fellow believers whom I love, will disagree with me about this.
S1: I disagree with them. I, you know, I still love them.
S1: This is one of those things where there are no
S1: good guys or bad guys. You know, we're just we're
S1: just going to agree to disagree without being disagreeable. Okay.
S1: So that's I know the letters will come in when
S1: I explain what I understand about this. I'm not saying
S1: I've not read or pursued the other position to try
S1: and get a good grip on it. I have, but
S1: this is where I've landed. Okay. Uh, first of all,
S1: the modern tongues that that has been spoken, there really
S1: is no documented case where someone speaks in tongues in
S1: a language that's real. Mostly linguists find that it's gibberish.
S1: Not mostly universally, uh, that that it is. And there's
S1: a lot of studies done on it by linguists gibberish.
S1: And the explanation that's given is in First Corinthians 13,
S1: where it says, if I speak with tongues of men
S1: or of angels, and they say, oh, the reason why
S1: it can't be classified as a real language is because
S1: it's angel speak, it's angel language. And and they're not
S1: they're heavenly languages. They're not earthly and they can't be categorized. Well,
S1: that misunderstands first Corinthians 13 and first Corinthians 13. Paul
S1: is speaking hyperbole with hyperbole, uh, exaggeration. He's saying if
S1: men are angels of any kind of language imaginable, uh,
S1: and if I don't have love, it's useless. He is
S1: not in any way saying there's a different category of language.
S1: Just look at when we see pictures of heaven. Angels
S1: are speaking but visions of heaven in the Bible, they're
S1: speaking languages that we can understand. So and also in
S1: Galatians one Paul says, if an angel speaks another gospel
S1: to you, an angel from heaven speaks another gospel to you,
S1: let him be anathema. Angels from heaven aren't going to
S1: speak another gospel. The point of it is that that
S1: this is saying that, uh, it's it's hyperbole. Uh, you know,
S1: when it talks about in first Corinthians 14 that a
S1: person who speaks in tongues without, uh, interpretation that that is, uh,
S1: for self edification. Uh, truthfully, the purpose of spiritual gifts
S1: is never for self edification. It's for edification of the body.
S1: Paul says that in a negative way, he's not approving, uh,
S1: praying in tongues for the purpose of self edification. What
S1: he's doing is he's talking about, uh, that you should
S1: not pray in tongues without interpretation because it's only self-edification
S1: you edify yourself. What's the goal of a language to
S1: edify the body? The goal of all gifts to edify
S1: the body. So there's a lot to be said about tongues. Uh,
S1: I try not to argue about it, but I hope
S1: that answers some of the questions. Here's what I will
S1: tell you. First Corinthians 14 says, all do not speak
S1: in tongues, do they? And the answer is no. So
S1: everyone does not have to speak in tongues. Don't put
S1: any pressure on your daughter or yourself to speak on
S1: in tongues. Uh, that's just not necessary. Well, first hour's up.
S1: We're going to come back with a second hour in
S1: just a moment. Check out our web page Openline radio.org. Uh,
S1: on that page you'll find links to our current resource
S1: how to become a kitchen table Partner, how to get
S1: the chosen people offer. This month. You'll see it all there. Uh,
S1: just go to our website, openline. radio.org. More questions coming
S1: up in just a bit. So stay with us. Second
S1: hour coming up straight ahead. Open line is a production
S1: of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. We're
S1: coming right back, so stay with us.