WEBVTT - Hour 1: Starting Your Study 0:00:07.670 --> 0:00:12.320 Have you noticed? Our culture seems to be collapsing around us. 0:00:12.350 --> 0:00:18.020 Our leaders, our church leaders are struggling. What would the 0:00:18.020 --> 0:00:22.730 Lord have us be during this time of struggle and strife? Well, 0:00:22.730 --> 0:00:27.140 stay with me. We'll talk about that in just a moment. Hello, friends. 0:00:27.140 --> 0:00:30.560 Welcome to Open Line with Doctor Michael Wright. This is 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:34.550 Moody Radio's Bible study across America. My name is Michael Riedel. 0:00:34.820 --> 0:00:38.089 I'm professor of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute. 0:00:38.090 --> 0:00:42.200 Also happened to be the academic dean there. And here 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:45.770 we are sitting around the radio kitchen table with our 0:00:45.770 --> 0:00:49.850 Bibles open, our coffee cups steaming. You can call right 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:53.420 now with your questions about the Bible, God, or the 0:00:53.420 --> 0:00:56.510 spiritual life. If you have a question and you'd like 0:00:56.510 --> 0:00:59.000 to call, now's the time to do it. Here's the 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:12.580 phone number (877) 548-3675. Let me give you that again. (877) 548-3675. 0:01:12.580 --> 0:01:16.600 And I have to remind people I always hear from 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:18.790 from listeners. They say it's hard to get through. I 0:01:18.790 --> 0:01:21.370 try to get through. Well, I would love for you 0:01:21.370 --> 0:01:23.200 to get through. Best time to get through is to 0:01:23.230 --> 0:01:32.020 call right now at the beginning of the hour. (877) 548-3675. 0:01:32.050 --> 0:01:37.030 Tricia McMillan is producing today and Tara is helping out. 0:01:37.060 --> 0:01:41.350 Glad you're here today, Tara. Chris Segard is handling all 0:01:41.350 --> 0:01:47.080 things technical. He's engineering and tiara, not tiara. Tiara is 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:49.990 answering the phones. We got so many names that are similar. 0:01:49.990 --> 0:01:52.270 I've got to really watch myself here and not get 0:01:52.270 --> 0:01:56.050 everyone confused. Anyway, I'm really glad to be together with them. 0:01:56.050 --> 0:02:00.890 And again, the phone number 775483675. Go get yourself a 0:02:00.890 --> 0:02:03.050 cup of coffee right now if you don't have it yet. 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:07.700 Open your Bible. We're about to study the scriptures together. Well, 0:02:07.730 --> 0:02:11.300 school starts this week at Moody Bible Institute. This is 0:02:11.300 --> 0:02:16.400 my 31st opening season here at Moody. I started actually 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:22.160 in January. And so, uh, this is my 31st year 0:02:22.460 --> 0:02:27.380 of welcoming students in August. I'm looking forward to seeing them. 0:02:27.380 --> 0:02:31.700 The campus is starting to just explode with new students, 0:02:31.700 --> 0:02:34.250 and I was thinking about why it is that we 0:02:34.250 --> 0:02:41.389 have Moody Bible Institute. Uh, D.L. Moody actually said that 0:02:41.389 --> 0:02:45.740 his vision was to create Gap men. Today we would 0:02:45.740 --> 0:02:48.830 say gap men and women because he included women in 0:02:48.860 --> 0:02:53.570 that concept. Gap men and women. Well, what's that about? Well, 0:02:53.570 --> 0:02:59.350 here's what what D.L. Moody actually Said, I tell you 0:02:59.380 --> 0:03:02.139 what I want and what I have on my heart. 0:03:02.139 --> 0:03:05.470 I believe we have got to have gap men and 0:03:05.470 --> 0:03:09.790 women to stand between the laity and the ministers, men 0:03:09.820 --> 0:03:15.220 who are trained to do ministry work. Take men that 0:03:15.220 --> 0:03:19.240 have the gifts and train them for the work of 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:23.649 reaching the people. That's what he was. That's how he 0:03:23.650 --> 0:03:28.570 imagined gap. Men and women, people who were not necessarily clergy, 0:03:28.570 --> 0:03:32.320 but they were people who would stand in the gap 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:36.760 between the world and the needs of the world and 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:40.240 provide that do the ministry work, which is really a 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.450 very biblical vision that all believers, all followers of Jesus, 0:03:43.450 --> 0:03:48.580 should be doing the work of ministry. Uh, I think 0:03:48.580 --> 0:03:54.520 that that he said this in January of 1863, but 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:57.750 then 23 years later, the Moody Bible Institute was founded. 0:03:57.750 --> 0:04:00.120 Where did he get the idea of gap men and women? Well, 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.000 it actually comes from the Book of Ezekiel. And in 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:08.820 the book of Ezekiel, chapter 22, verses 23 to 32, 0:04:08.850 --> 0:04:12.270 it talks about the problem that Israel was facing before 0:04:12.270 --> 0:04:17.910 the first exile. And the problem was that the priests 0:04:18.150 --> 0:04:25.890 were worshiping with impurity. It says they made no distinction 0:04:25.890 --> 0:04:30.299 between the holy and the common. Secondly, the princes, the 0:04:30.300 --> 0:04:34.830 leaders of the country, were leading with dishonesty. Verse 27 0:04:34.860 --> 0:04:38.760 of Ezekiel 22 says, they were leading to destroy lives 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:44.640 in order to make a profit. And then the prophets. 0:04:44.850 --> 0:04:53.940 Verse 28 talks about them, and it says of the prophets, they, uh, lied. 0:04:53.950 --> 0:04:58.180 They saw false visions and lying divinations. They say this 0:04:58.180 --> 0:05:00.789 is what the Lord says when the Lord had not 0:05:00.820 --> 0:05:05.260 yet spoken. So the leadership of Israel, the prophets, the 0:05:05.260 --> 0:05:10.240 priests and the princes were all corrupt in what they 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:13.839 were supposed to be doing. And then in verse 30, 0:05:13.870 --> 0:05:16.510 this is what the Lord says, I searched for a 0:05:16.510 --> 0:05:20.650 man among them who would repair the wall and stand 0:05:20.650 --> 0:05:23.800 in the gap before me on behalf of the land, 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.800 so that I might not destroy it. But I found 0:05:26.830 --> 0:05:30.460 no one. God was looking for gap men and women. 0:05:30.490 --> 0:05:33.549 Not necessarily D.L. Moody, God himself. And that's where D.L. 0:05:33.580 --> 0:05:36.400 Moody got the idea. And what does it take to 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:40.750 be a gap man or woman? Well, this is this 0:05:40.750 --> 0:05:45.040 is just absolutely crucial, I think, when we say this 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:47.589 is what the problem is with the leaders, it would 0:05:47.589 --> 0:05:50.739 be the opposite of what God is looking for, for 0:05:50.740 --> 0:05:55.020 people to stand in the gap. So, for example, in 0:05:55.020 --> 0:05:59.489 contrast to the priests. God is looking for gap men 0:05:59.490 --> 0:06:04.200 and women who will worship with holiness. Verse 26 says this, 0:06:04.290 --> 0:06:08.130 that they make no distinction between the holy and the common, 0:06:08.130 --> 0:06:10.710 and they do not explain the difference between the clean 0:06:10.710 --> 0:06:14.130 and the unclean. And so what they were doing is 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:18.779 they were worshiping with impurity. We need to worship God. 0:06:18.779 --> 0:06:21.089 If we're going to be gap men and women. We 0:06:21.089 --> 0:06:24.120 need to worship God with purity. Our lives need to 0:06:24.150 --> 0:06:28.169 reflect the commands and obedience to His Word. We need 0:06:28.170 --> 0:06:32.250 to look, walk in fellowship with the Lord our life. 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:37.140 Our worship should be consistent. Our life should be consistent 0:06:37.140 --> 0:06:40.710 with our worship. So we need to worship with purity. Secondly, 0:06:40.710 --> 0:06:43.290 if we're going to be gap men and women, we 0:06:43.290 --> 0:06:49.380 have to lead with integrity. In verse 27, the problem 0:06:49.380 --> 0:06:53.460 with the princes, the officials within the city is that 0:06:53.460 --> 0:06:57.480 they were like wolves tearing their prey, shedding blood, destroying 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:01.080 lives in order to make a profit. Well, that's not 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:05.219 leading with integrity. We need to lead people with integrity. 0:07:05.370 --> 0:07:08.760 We need to lead for the good of the people 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:12.870 rather than for the good of ourselves. And you say, well, 0:07:12.870 --> 0:07:16.410 I'm not a leader. Everyone's a leader. There's someone that 0:07:16.410 --> 0:07:19.320 we are leading. It might be just our family. It 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:22.890 might be leading in our community. It might be leading 0:07:22.890 --> 0:07:26.070 in some way. In every case, if we're going to 0:07:26.070 --> 0:07:28.680 be leaders, what we need to do is lead with 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:31.020 the good of the people in mind that we are 0:07:31.020 --> 0:07:34.380 leading rather than our own advantage. And then the third 0:07:34.380 --> 0:07:38.340 aspect of being a gap person is unlike those prophets 0:07:38.340 --> 0:07:41.460 who spoke falsehood. What we need to do is proclaim 0:07:41.490 --> 0:07:46.110 proclaim God's Word truthfully and faithfully. We need to be 0:07:46.110 --> 0:07:49.770 people who communicate the truth of God. It says her 0:07:49.780 --> 0:07:53.800 prophets plaster whitewash for them by seeing false visions and 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:57.310 lying divinations. And they say, this is what the Lord 0:07:57.310 --> 0:08:01.660 has said when the Lord has not spoken. They were 0:08:01.660 --> 0:08:04.330 making up their own stories and saying it was God. Well, 0:08:04.330 --> 0:08:07.450 no gap men and women, what will we do? We'll 0:08:07.450 --> 0:08:09.430 take the Word of God, the truth of the Word 0:08:09.430 --> 0:08:11.980 of God, and say, thus says the Lord, this is 0:08:11.980 --> 0:08:15.580 what God has spoken, and we'll apply it faithfully in 0:08:15.580 --> 0:08:19.000 our own day and our own culture. But we will 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.120 be people who apply the Word of God and teach 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:26.200 it truthfully. That's what a gap person is. A gap 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:30.880 person worships with holiness, leads with integrity, and teaches God's 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:35.679 Word faithfully. Well, you say, well, that's for your school. 0:08:36.370 --> 0:08:40.719 What are you talking about here? I'm a moody radio listener. Well, 0:08:40.750 --> 0:08:43.720 Moody's vision of gap men and women is not just 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:47.050 fulfilled through a school, it's fulfilled through a radio network. 0:08:47.050 --> 0:08:50.429 And if you're listening on the radio now. We would 0:08:50.429 --> 0:08:53.250 like to see every one of our listeners be a 0:08:53.250 --> 0:08:58.650 gap man or woman who will fill the gap and 0:08:58.650 --> 0:09:05.280 provide holiness in their worship, provide integrity in their leadership, 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:09.870 and faithfully teach God's Word. Are you ready to become 0:09:09.870 --> 0:09:14.429 a gap man or woman? Well, then, let's commit to 0:09:14.460 --> 0:09:21.660 worshiping with holiness, leading with integrity, and teaching God's Word faithfully. Well, 0:09:21.660 --> 0:09:24.090 we're going to go to the phones right now. We're 0:09:24.090 --> 0:09:29.340 going to talk to Weston in South Carolina, listening on Wbbj. 0:09:29.370 --> 0:09:32.610 Welcome to Open Line. Weston. How can I help you today? 0:09:33.420 --> 0:09:37.260 Yes, doctor. Michael, my name is Weston, and I listen 0:09:37.290 --> 0:09:41.250 on Wbbj 99.1, part of the Good News Network. Great. 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:43.650 And I wanted to know where in the Bible does 0:09:43.650 --> 0:09:46.319 Paul start his preaching? 0:09:46.990 --> 0:09:47.410 What? 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:52.150 Where does he start his preaching? Okay. I think it's 0:09:52.150 --> 0:09:58.510 really interesting. Uh, he starts his preaching immediately upon conversion. 0:09:58.540 --> 0:10:02.620 As soon as he becomes, uh, transformed. By the way, 0:10:02.620 --> 0:10:05.800 he didn't convert from being Jewish to a Christian. What 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:10.059 he did is he converted from being a sinner opposed 0:10:10.059 --> 0:10:14.500 to God, to someone that would faithfully follow the the 0:10:14.500 --> 0:10:20.350 Lord Jesus. And it says that he was in Damascus. 0:10:20.350 --> 0:10:22.840 He has on the road to Damascus. He has the 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:27.190 vision of the Lord Jesus. Right. Uh, and then he 0:10:27.190 --> 0:10:30.670 goes to Damascus and he's blind. And Ananias comes and 0:10:30.670 --> 0:10:34.900 lays hands on him. And the the scales fell from 0:10:34.900 --> 0:10:39.790 his eyes and exit, uh, an exodus in acts 918 0:10:39.970 --> 0:10:42.820 at once something like scales fell from his eyes, and 0:10:42.820 --> 0:10:45.130 he regained his sight. And then he got up and 0:10:45.130 --> 0:10:47.640 he was baptized. and after taking some food, he regained 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:51.570 his strength. And then look at what it says. Uh, 0:10:51.660 --> 0:10:57.840 in acts nine 819, Saul was with the disciples in 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:02.429 Damascus for some days now, verse 20, immediately he began 0:11:02.460 --> 0:11:07.770 proclaiming Jesus in the synagogues, saying, he is the Son 0:11:07.770 --> 0:11:12.090 of God. So when did he start this proclamation? When 0:11:12.090 --> 0:11:16.470 did he start preaching? Immediately after coming to know Jesus. 0:11:16.470 --> 0:11:19.800 That's when he started. It reminds me of John nine, 0:11:19.830 --> 0:11:22.590 where the blind man who the man who was born blind, 0:11:22.620 --> 0:11:25.530 he sees and he immediately starts teaching about Jesus. And 0:11:25.530 --> 0:11:28.380 they want him to the leadership, religious leadership want him 0:11:28.380 --> 0:11:32.130 to explain everything he says. Mm. I don't know all 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.010 that this much I know I once was blind, but 0:11:35.010 --> 0:11:39.510 now I see. So Paul began immediately. Uh, now he 0:11:39.510 --> 0:11:41.790 had a lot of knowledge of Scripture, so he had 0:11:41.790 --> 0:11:44.160 a lot to fall back on. But now he saw 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:48.040 the fulfillment and he was proclaiming Jesus as the Messiah. 0:11:48.070 --> 0:11:51.100 So that's when he began right away, when he came 0:11:51.100 --> 0:11:53.260 to know the Lord. Okay. Weston. 0:11:54.130 --> 0:11:55.150 Okay. Yep. 0:11:55.179 --> 0:11:58.569 Thanks. Thanks for your call, by the way. That's there's 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:02.800 there's no reason that any of us can ever say 0:12:02.860 --> 0:12:06.099 I can't talk about the Lord. All we have to 0:12:06.100 --> 0:12:08.170 do is talk about what he did in our lives. 0:12:08.410 --> 0:12:10.900 We don't have to have every answer. You know, that's 0:12:10.900 --> 0:12:13.540 that's something people will ask us questions. I don't have 0:12:13.540 --> 0:12:16.329 all the answers. But I do know this. I once 0:12:16.330 --> 0:12:20.110 was blind, but now I see. That's that's what we 0:12:20.110 --> 0:12:21.790 need to do. We need to start from where we're 0:12:21.790 --> 0:12:25.809 at with what the Lord has done for us. Now, uh, 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:32.110 before we, uh, take a break, I want to mention something. Uh, 0:12:32.500 --> 0:12:35.290 I just cited from the Book of Acts. The Book 0:12:35.290 --> 0:12:37.990 of Acts, one of my favorite books. Loved it. Since 0:12:37.990 --> 0:12:40.690 I came to Moody as a student 50 years ago 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:46.770 this week. And, uh, our our current resources. Doctor Charles 0:12:46.770 --> 0:12:50.640 Ryrie everyday Bible commentary on the book of acts. Everyday 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.939 commentary on acts. It. You know, the book of acts 0:12:53.970 --> 0:12:59.010 is history. It's apologetics. It's the defense of the gospel. Uh, 0:12:59.010 --> 0:13:04.020 it's geography, it's biography. Uh, it's so much. And it's 0:13:04.020 --> 0:13:08.250 also got some pretty significant theology. How do you navigate 0:13:08.250 --> 0:13:10.980 all that? Well, this little book will really help you. 0:13:10.980 --> 0:13:14.670 And if you would like to get a copy of it, 0:13:14.700 --> 0:13:17.459 what we would like for you to do is we'd 0:13:17.460 --> 0:13:20.310 like to send you a copy by. If you give 0:13:20.309 --> 0:13:23.340 a gift of any size, just send a gift. We're 0:13:23.340 --> 0:13:24.900 happy to send it to you. We want to say 0:13:24.900 --> 0:13:27.510 thank you for your gift, and that's the way we're 0:13:27.510 --> 0:13:31.980 going to do it. And so if you'd like, uh, 0:13:31.980 --> 0:13:35.099 give a gift, uh, and then if you'd like to 0:13:35.130 --> 0:13:39.540 do that, all you have to do is go to our, uh, 0:13:39.870 --> 0:13:44.900 our website, openline. Line radio.org. And, you know, I've seemed 0:13:44.900 --> 0:13:47.120 to have lost the phone number. Trish, what's the number 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:55.040 I'm supposed to call? (888) 644-7122. That's where you have to 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.800 go to if you'd like to give a gift or 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:02.900 our website openline radio.org. And don't forget, ask for the 0:14:02.929 --> 0:14:07.219 everyday Bible commentary on acts. Well, we're going to come back. 0:14:07.250 --> 0:14:13.610 There's a whole bunch of questions. Our phone number here. (877) 548-3675. 0:14:13.610 --> 0:14:15.920 And when we come back, we're going to talk to 0:14:15.950 --> 0:14:19.250 you about your questions about the Bible, God and the 0:14:19.250 --> 0:14:21.920 spiritual life. My name is Michael Read Melnick. You're listening 0:14:21.950 --> 0:14:24.710 to Openline. And when we come back, we'll be talking 0:14:24.710 --> 0:14:28.520 with you about your understanding and your questions about the scriptures. 0:14:28.550 --> 0:14:39.590 Stay with us. We're coming right back. Welcome back to 0:14:39.620 --> 0:14:42.180 Open Line. So glad to be with you this morning. 0:14:42.180 --> 0:14:45.270 My name is Michael Riedel, and the phone number here 0:14:45.270 --> 0:14:53.250 is (877) 548-3675. You can call with any question you might 0:14:53.250 --> 0:14:57.570 want to discuss about the Bible or God or the 0:14:57.570 --> 0:15:00.480 spiritual life. We're going to go right back to the 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:04.830 phones here. Uh, green in the Chicago area. Interesting. First 0:15:04.830 --> 0:15:07.710 name green listening on Wmbi. Welcome to Open Line. How 0:15:07.710 --> 0:15:08.610 can I help you? 0:15:09.540 --> 0:15:12.300 Oh, God bless you. And thank you for taking my call. 0:15:12.300 --> 0:15:16.260 My great grandfather left me that name, so I've been 0:15:16.260 --> 0:15:19.590 carrying green a long time. My son say, daddy, I 0:15:19.590 --> 0:15:21.990 can't do it to my son because it was hard 0:15:21.990 --> 0:15:25.530 in school. But Michael, that that was that was the 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:27.570 history of the green first name. 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:29.310 Yeah. That's interesting. Huh? 0:15:29.550 --> 0:15:33.780 Yes. Uh, my question is, in this day and time, 0:15:33.780 --> 0:15:37.290 and I love what you say about men and women 0:15:37.290 --> 0:15:41.390 standing in the gap. do that leave room for women 0:15:41.390 --> 0:15:46.400 to pastor in the church. Biblically? 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:51.830 Well, here's here's what I think. Uh, let's distinguish between 0:15:51.830 --> 0:15:58.580 the office of pastor and the gift of pastor. Because 0:15:58.580 --> 0:16:02.810 if you read Ephesians 411 and 12, you'll see that 0:16:02.810 --> 0:16:07.640 there are there's a gift of pastor, the gift of pastor, teacher. 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:13.190 And and so if you asked me, can women have 0:16:13.190 --> 0:16:17.810 the gift of pastor? The answer is absolutely yes. And 0:16:17.810 --> 0:16:22.280 when I was leading a congregation, one of the things 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:28.730 I did, I've led several congregations, but one in particular 0:16:28.730 --> 0:16:32.150 I planted and I was at I remember distinctly I 0:16:32.150 --> 0:16:38.410 was a young, fairly young pastor, and I really felt 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:43.330 like what the women in that congregation needed was mature leadership, 0:16:43.660 --> 0:16:48.340 a woman to minister in their lives. My wife would 0:16:48.370 --> 0:16:50.590 have could have done that. But we had little kids, 0:16:50.590 --> 0:16:54.220 and she was really preoccupied with a lot of that 0:16:54.220 --> 0:16:57.100 and needed a little more time with our kids than 0:16:57.100 --> 0:17:00.790 than she couldn't be doing that. And the Lord provided 0:17:00.790 --> 0:17:06.130 this really dear, very mature woman who lived in Florida 0:17:06.130 --> 0:17:11.170 for the, the, uh, December, January, February. But the rest 0:17:11.170 --> 0:17:15.010 of the year, about March through November, she was up 0:17:15.010 --> 0:17:20.800 in the North, and she shepherded those women because it 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:23.889 was her gift of pastor teacher. She taught Bible study. 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.760 She discipled, she encouraged, she counseled. She did all that 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:32.380 great stuff. Uh, and but she just did it because 0:17:32.380 --> 0:17:36.190 that was her spiritual gift. It was not her office, uh, 0:17:36.230 --> 0:17:38.750 the office that we really have to address is the 0:17:38.750 --> 0:17:45.740 office of elder. And in my judgment, like a lead 0:17:45.740 --> 0:17:49.880 pastor in a congregation that is a person who has 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:52.700 the office of elder with other elders, and in first 0:17:52.700 --> 0:17:58.010 Timothy 211 to 12, that that verse 212, it says, 0:17:58.010 --> 0:18:01.700 I don't allow a woman to teach or exercise authority 0:18:01.700 --> 0:18:06.470 over a man. In that context, I think that that's 0:18:06.470 --> 0:18:12.020 referring to the office of elder. And and so it 0:18:12.020 --> 0:18:17.510 seems to me that the office of elder, uh, is 0:18:17.510 --> 0:18:22.610 limited to men and not just any man spiritually mature. 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.310 Read first Timothy three. It says, what kind of men 0:18:25.310 --> 0:18:29.240 can be elders? Not all men, just some men who 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:33.710 exhibit spiritual maturity and have the the calling by God 0:18:33.710 --> 0:18:38.109 to lead and shepherd and do those kinds of things. 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:42.639 That's where I think, uh, the office of, of lead 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.879 pastor sits. And I think for that reason, it should 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:50.500 be because it's an it's an elder role that's limited 0:18:50.500 --> 0:18:54.520 to men. But ministry is not limited to men. Women 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.220 minister in a variety of ways. They teach in a 0:18:57.220 --> 0:18:59.830 variety of ways. I think, for example, when it says 0:18:59.830 --> 0:19:03.820 that don't allow women to teach a man in that passage, 0:19:03.820 --> 0:19:08.800 it's talking about the authoritative exposition of God's Word as 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.440 the congregation gathers. It doesn't mean a woman can't teach 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:13.899 a Sunday school class, or a woman can't teach a 0:19:13.900 --> 0:19:17.740 home group. That's a different kind of setting for teaching, 0:19:17.740 --> 0:19:21.699 and I think that's utterly permissible. And then if you 0:19:21.700 --> 0:19:25.030 go a little bit further, women can teach women. Women 0:19:25.030 --> 0:19:28.929 can teach children, uh, there's all sorts of ways the 0:19:28.930 --> 0:19:31.570 small group setting is what I was thinking of when 0:19:31.570 --> 0:19:35.760 Priscilla and Aquila taught Apollos the more accurate way of 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:39.240 understanding the scriptures. They did that in a small group setting. 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:42.629 And and Priscilla was there doing it. So there are many, 0:19:42.630 --> 0:19:47.580 many ways that women can minister. But the lead pastor position, 0:19:47.580 --> 0:19:50.850 I think is limited because it's an elder role. It's 0:19:50.850 --> 0:19:53.310 limited to men. Does that help? Okay. 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.580 Oh, that helped a lot because my thoughts were in 0:19:56.580 --> 0:20:00.450 the last days. Your sons and daughters shall prophesy. And, 0:20:00.450 --> 0:20:04.440 you know, that's what my brain was just wrestling with 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:08.250 that thing. I know some good friend, women that are 0:20:08.250 --> 0:20:14.940 standing in the pastor's position of their own group of people. And, 0:20:14.970 --> 0:20:17.820 you know, I'm just it's just. Well, in this day, 0:20:17.850 --> 0:20:20.880 in this day and time, it's just things in my 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:21.600 head and I. 0:20:21.630 --> 0:20:23.909 Yeah, well, let me just say green. Even in the 0:20:23.910 --> 0:20:27.119 New Testament, when there were prophets operating in the church, 0:20:27.150 --> 0:20:30.780 it talks about in first Corinthians 11, a woman can prophesy, 0:20:30.930 --> 0:20:33.010 but she had to have her head covered as a 0:20:33.010 --> 0:20:39.160 sign of the authority over her. So I don't think that, uh. 0:20:39.490 --> 0:20:43.180 And she was allowed to pray as well, uh, publicly 0:20:43.180 --> 0:20:46.330 in the congregation. So it's not absolute silence that women 0:20:46.330 --> 0:20:51.550 are supposed to carry out or anything like that. Uh, rather, 0:20:51.550 --> 0:20:57.130 it's it's actually, uh, that, that, uh, and women, there 0:20:57.160 --> 0:20:59.320 are many, many things that women can do. I just 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:02.050 think it's the office of lead pastor because it's an 0:21:02.050 --> 0:21:05.230 elder role, any kind of elder role. That's what's limited. 0:21:05.230 --> 0:21:06.909 And I don't think it was just cultural. There are 0:21:06.910 --> 0:21:09.100 many people who say that's cultural today in our culture, 0:21:09.100 --> 0:21:12.190 it's acceptable. If you look at the follow up verses 0:21:12.190 --> 0:21:16.000 and verses 13 and 14, Paul gives his explanation as 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:20.800 being the order of creation and the the fall that 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:24.729 look at the terrible consequences of Eve not following the 0:21:24.730 --> 0:21:29.439 established order. And so that's what it's about. But, uh, 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.080 I don't mean this to say in any way that 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:40.840 women can't, uh, operate and serve God operate as his gap. Women, uh, 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:44.020 having a great effect and impact on our our culture 0:21:44.020 --> 0:21:46.300 and our society. Thanks for your call. We're going to 0:21:46.300 --> 0:21:50.710 talk to Jim in Michigan. Welcome to Open Line. Jim. 0:21:50.710 --> 0:21:52.000 How can I help you today? 0:21:54.460 --> 0:21:58.360 Last week, my wife and I were talking and we 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:04.060 got to questioning what is the Tanakh versus the Torah 0:22:04.090 --> 0:22:08.139 versus the Talmud. And when a friend of hers says, 0:22:08.140 --> 0:22:11.020 I've been listening to this rabbi on the radio, he's 0:22:11.020 --> 0:22:16.240 been teaching from the, uh, Talmud or Talmud, I think 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:21.220 is what it was. Uh, should we be concerned or amused? 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:27.760 Well, I don't think either. Uh, okay, here's the word 0:22:27.790 --> 0:22:32.149 Tanakh is the. It's an, uh, I think an acronym 0:22:32.150 --> 0:22:35.990 you would say of the word for the Old Testament 0:22:35.990 --> 0:22:40.820 or the Hebrew Bible. Uh, you've got the Pentateuch, which 0:22:40.820 --> 0:22:45.830 is Torah. So take the T, then you've got prophets 0:22:45.859 --> 0:22:54.710 Nevi'im that's the N, and then, uh, writings. Ketuvim that's 0:22:54.710 --> 0:22:58.639 the that's the the G at the end. It gets 0:22:58.670 --> 0:23:01.730 it doesn't sound like it's softened, but it's, uh, softened 0:23:01.730 --> 0:23:06.950 from a hard K to a J. So it becomes Tanakh. Uh, 0:23:06.950 --> 0:23:12.260 and that just stands for Law and Prophets and Writings, 0:23:12.260 --> 0:23:14.930 which is. And so it's an acronym for the Old Testament. 0:23:14.930 --> 0:23:20.360 The Talmud means learning. And it's a massive set of 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:24.410 materials that the rabbis engaged in to say, how do 0:23:24.410 --> 0:23:29.050 we apply the law in our current circumstances Stances right now. 0:23:29.050 --> 0:23:32.170 That's the most of it. It's it's something called it 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:35.380 contains what in Hebrew is called halakha. It means how 0:23:35.380 --> 0:23:40.570 to walk or how to. It's the legal decisions, you know, 0:23:40.600 --> 0:23:47.379 if we're supposed to, uh, keep kosher. What constitutes kosher? 0:23:47.410 --> 0:23:50.470 A rabbi might say. And there's whole books about it 0:23:50.470 --> 0:23:54.580 if you're supposed to rest on Shabbat. There's a whole 0:23:54.580 --> 0:23:58.510 slew of regulations of what constitutes rest, what's permitted, what's 0:23:58.510 --> 0:24:02.470 not permitted. And so that's what the Talmud is about. 80% 0:24:02.470 --> 0:24:07.150 of it is what these legal decisions called halakha. There's 0:24:07.150 --> 0:24:09.129 another word. Oh, you want to know what the Torah is? 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:13.570 Torah is the Hebrew word, and it means law or instruction. 0:24:13.570 --> 0:24:17.140 And it's the first five books of Moses. The Torah also. 0:24:17.170 --> 0:24:21.850 It's it's it's become used for the whole Bible. Whole 0:24:21.850 --> 0:24:26.500 Hebrew Bible sometimes, or any kind of instruction. So, uh, 0:24:26.510 --> 0:24:30.740 that that's that's what that is. If you're, you know, 0:24:30.770 --> 0:24:34.790 it depends on why your friend is listening to a 0:24:34.790 --> 0:24:40.040 rabbi teach the Talmud. There's some really wonderful wisdom principles 0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:45.919 of how to apply the Torah in the Talmud. And, uh, 0:24:45.980 --> 0:24:48.140 I think there's a lot of good things you can 0:24:48.140 --> 0:24:52.040 learn from it. Uh, does is it? You know, I 0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:56.780 teach a course which includes, uh, teaching the Mishnah, which 0:24:56.780 --> 0:24:59.719 is part of the Talmud, the Gemara, which together the 0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:02.840 mission and the Gemara makes the Talmud, uh, I teach 0:25:02.840 --> 0:25:06.230 these rabbinic things so that students can learn the logic 0:25:06.230 --> 0:25:08.690 of the Torah, of the Talmud. They can learn how 0:25:08.690 --> 0:25:12.020 it's done. It's it's got a different kind of logic 0:25:12.020 --> 0:25:15.139 to it. Uh, there's a lot of good things we 0:25:15.140 --> 0:25:19.940 can learn from it, a lot of good applications. However, uh, 0:25:19.970 --> 0:25:23.390 I would just say it's not the wonderful words of life. It's. 0:25:23.390 --> 0:25:28.359 It's not like teaching the scriptures And and so for me, 0:25:28.359 --> 0:25:33.580 I would rather focus on the scriptures rather than the Talmud. 0:25:33.580 --> 0:25:36.520 But it's it's not going to hurt, I don't think, 0:25:36.520 --> 0:25:39.670 if your friend is listening to that. So anyway, thanks 0:25:39.670 --> 0:25:41.890 for your call. Appreciate it. We're going to come back 0:25:41.890 --> 0:25:44.290 with the mailbag in just a moment, so don't go away. 0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:47.050 Tricia McMillan. She's dragging it in right now. This is 0:25:47.050 --> 0:26:09.550 Michael Ray Dolnick. You're listening to Open Line. Welcome back 0:26:09.550 --> 0:26:13.510 to Open Line. My name is Michael Ray Dolnick. And 0:26:13.510 --> 0:26:20.020 joining me in a moment for the Far East. Far, 0:26:20.200 --> 0:26:27.420 Far East Broadcasting Company's, uh, mailbag segment. The Febc mailbag 0:26:27.420 --> 0:26:31.200 is Tricia McMillan. I'm so grateful that Febc, a Far 0:26:31.200 --> 0:26:35.219 Eastern Broadcasting company, is partnering with Openline to bring you 0:26:35.220 --> 0:26:38.730 the mailbag. It's a ministry that reaches people through media 0:26:38.730 --> 0:26:40.859 in a great way. They also have people on the 0:26:40.859 --> 0:26:43.500 ground to follow up there. They're having a great impact. 0:26:43.500 --> 0:26:47.970 If you want to learn more, just go to their website, febc.org. 0:26:47.970 --> 0:26:50.520 Click on the link that they have there to to 0:26:50.550 --> 0:26:54.690 their their podcast. It's called Until All Have Heard featuring 0:26:54.720 --> 0:26:57.540 Ed Cannon. You're going to love that. Check it out. 0:26:57.540 --> 0:27:01.470 I'm sure you're going to really appreciate this ministry. Well Tricia, 0:27:01.470 --> 0:27:04.080 it's good to see you. You too. And to Hira. 0:27:04.109 --> 0:27:05.400 I'm glad to see you too. 0:27:05.430 --> 0:27:07.350 Thank you. Great to be here. Hi, Michael. 0:27:07.350 --> 0:27:13.200 Uh, now, today I, we got our calendars from Chosen 0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:16.650 People Ministries, our Jewish art calendars. Yes, yes. And they're beautiful, 0:27:16.650 --> 0:27:17.130 aren't they? 0:27:17.280 --> 0:27:18.389 They are. They really are. 0:27:18.420 --> 0:27:21.390 They're just great. And the thing is, they start in 0:27:21.390 --> 0:27:24.700 September because Jewish holidays begin in September. And what I 0:27:24.700 --> 0:27:27.520 love about this, it shows this calendar this year. The 0:27:27.520 --> 0:27:30.460 theme is God's promises to Israel, God's faithfulness to the 0:27:30.460 --> 0:27:33.459 people of Israel in the land of Israel. And it 0:27:33.460 --> 0:27:35.440 goes all the way back to biblical times that God 0:27:35.470 --> 0:27:40.120 has been faithful to the modern times. Even after October 7th. 0:27:40.150 --> 0:27:43.750 God is faithful to his people. And one of the 0:27:43.750 --> 0:27:50.650 most important aspects of God's faithfulness to his people is that, uh, 0:27:50.920 --> 0:27:55.899 that he faithfully sent the Messiah, the Messiah, Jesus. And so, anyway, 0:27:55.930 --> 0:27:58.450 I love this calendar. It's a great calendar. And by 0:27:58.450 --> 0:28:00.609 the way, you can get it too. If you're listening, 0:28:00.609 --> 0:28:04.180 you'd like a copy. Chosen People Ministries has made it available. 0:28:04.180 --> 0:28:06.520 All you have to do to get a free copy 0:28:06.520 --> 0:28:09.879 of this beautiful Messianic Jewish art calendar is go to 0:28:09.910 --> 0:28:16.300 our website. That's Openline radio.org. Scroll down and you'll see 0:28:16.330 --> 0:28:20.290 a link that says A free gift from Chosen People Ministries. 0:28:20.290 --> 0:28:24.540 And when you click on that, you'll be taken to 0:28:24.570 --> 0:28:27.270 a site where you can sign up for your very 0:28:27.300 --> 0:28:32.070 own copy of the Chosen People Ministries Messianic Jewish Art calendar. 0:28:32.070 --> 0:28:34.230 And I think you're going to really like it. Tricia 0:28:34.260 --> 0:28:35.280 likes it, I do. 0:28:35.310 --> 0:28:37.469 Yeah, I do. I'm very I was very excited to 0:28:37.470 --> 0:28:40.230 see it today. That's great. Flip through it. Yeah. Yeah. 0:28:40.260 --> 0:28:43.350 And to hear you said this is my first one, right? Yes. 0:28:43.350 --> 0:28:46.200 My first calendar for 2025. So thank you. 0:28:46.230 --> 0:28:49.830 There you go. That's great. So okay. Thank you. Chosen 0:28:49.830 --> 0:28:52.170 People Ministries for sending those. And they can send you 0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:54.479 one too. Well, we've got the mailbag here. What have 0:28:54.480 --> 0:28:54.960 we got? 0:28:54.990 --> 0:28:58.170 We do. Our first question is from Edwin in Florida. 0:28:58.200 --> 0:29:02.190 Listens to keys in job after job was redeemed for 0:29:02.190 --> 0:29:06.510 his righteousness. Did this recovery and redemption justify the beliefs 0:29:06.510 --> 0:29:09.420 of his friends who had stated that he was being 0:29:09.420 --> 0:29:11.520 punished as a sinner? And that's why all of this 0:29:11.520 --> 0:29:14.580 suffering was happening? Zohar would say at the end that 0:29:14.580 --> 0:29:16.890 he was right, because he told him that life would 0:29:16.890 --> 0:29:20.990 be brighter than noonday and darkness will become morning. in 0:29:20.990 --> 0:29:21.620 job 11. 0:29:21.650 --> 0:29:23.479 So let me let me see if I understand this question. 0:29:23.600 --> 0:29:27.530 Were job's friends right? That job was suffering because of 0:29:27.530 --> 0:29:28.100 his sin? 0:29:28.130 --> 0:29:31.970 Well, were they right? But. But how does this help 0:29:31.970 --> 0:29:36.560 their misguided theology to think that they were right? Whether so, 0:29:36.590 --> 0:29:41.030 were they right? Um. And I guess whether if they 0:29:41.030 --> 0:29:46.130 weren't completely right, how does this help their misguided theology? 0:29:46.160 --> 0:29:49.280 It's not really designed to help their misguided theology. Okay. 0:29:49.310 --> 0:29:52.010 It's designed to help our misguided theology and. 0:29:52.010 --> 0:29:53.390 Job's misguided theology. 0:29:53.420 --> 0:29:56.930 Yeah. Well, yeah. Job's a character in the story. The 0:29:56.930 --> 0:30:00.830 book is designed to help our misguided theology. Okay. It's 0:30:00.830 --> 0:30:03.320 not even designed to change job. He's just a character. 0:30:03.350 --> 0:30:04.520 I mean, he really existed. 0:30:04.550 --> 0:30:05.060 He existed. 0:30:05.060 --> 0:30:09.230 Yes, but. But he's just a character in the story. Uh, 0:30:09.440 --> 0:30:12.469 that's just that's something that I think is so funny 0:30:12.500 --> 0:30:16.130 is so often we forget that the purpose of biblical 0:30:16.160 --> 0:30:20.820 books is for the reader, not. No, it's it's not 0:30:20.820 --> 0:30:25.740 for the characters in the stories. So if we read 0:30:25.740 --> 0:30:28.320 the gospel and it talks about Jesus transforming the life 0:30:28.320 --> 0:30:31.440 of someone, right, we think, oh, Jesus, that was to 0:30:31.470 --> 0:30:34.590 transform that person's life. No, it's for us to learn 0:30:34.590 --> 0:30:37.140 about Jesus so we, our lives can be transformed. 0:30:37.140 --> 0:30:40.200 But not that the you're not saying that what happened? 0:30:40.200 --> 0:30:42.480 So for instance, in John nine to the to the 0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:46.140 blind man. Blind man, you're not saying it was not 0:30:46.320 --> 0:30:49.170 for the blind man to have him transformed. You're saying 0:30:49.170 --> 0:30:51.930 that the writing down of it so that we could 0:30:51.930 --> 0:30:54.390 read it exactly for him? That's it. So you're not 0:30:54.390 --> 0:30:56.310 saying this wasn't for Joe, but you're saying the writing 0:30:56.310 --> 0:30:57.930 down of it? Yeah. The book is not for Joe. 0:30:57.960 --> 0:31:00.420 The book is for us. For for the readers. Okay. 0:31:00.450 --> 0:31:05.550 And what we learn so often that people think we 0:31:05.550 --> 0:31:07.770 get so into the story, we think it's only about 0:31:07.770 --> 0:31:13.920 job or it's about Elihu or, you know, Bildad. It's not. 0:31:13.950 --> 0:31:16.170 It's about, what are we going to learn about this? Well, 0:31:16.170 --> 0:31:19.080 the first thing we learn is that when we look 0:31:19.110 --> 0:31:23.040 at someone and say they're suffering for their sin, they're suffering, 0:31:23.040 --> 0:31:27.150 so they must have sin. Well, obviously job didn't. And 0:31:27.150 --> 0:31:30.510 so so we better rethink our theology. If that's the 0:31:30.510 --> 0:31:33.330 kind of theology that we have, we learn not to 0:31:33.360 --> 0:31:38.370 be judgmental like that. Second thing is, as we read 0:31:38.370 --> 0:31:41.970 this book, we learn, and this is an important lesson 0:31:41.970 --> 0:31:46.260 that we can complain to God. We can cry out 0:31:46.260 --> 0:31:48.630 to God. We can tell God we feel we're being 0:31:48.660 --> 0:31:53.670 treated unfairly. The one thing that job couldn't do was 0:31:53.670 --> 0:31:58.020 demand that God come down and explain himself, because this 0:31:58.020 --> 0:32:01.620 is a book about God's sovereignty. And so what he 0:32:01.620 --> 0:32:05.760 had to learn was that God is sovereign and he 0:32:05.760 --> 0:32:08.459 knows what's best for us, even if we don't understand it. 0:32:08.490 --> 0:32:11.250 We have to trust him. And that's what job says 0:32:11.250 --> 0:32:16.900 at the end when he says in chapter 42 I 0:32:16.900 --> 0:32:20.110 had heard the rumors about you, but now my eyes 0:32:20.110 --> 0:32:24.460 have seen you. Therefore, I take back my words and 0:32:24.460 --> 0:32:28.780 repent in dust and ashes. That was not the sin 0:32:28.780 --> 0:32:33.460 his friends accused him of. The secret sin. Write this 0:32:33.460 --> 0:32:37.600 the sin was his presumption that God had to explain himself, 0:32:37.840 --> 0:32:41.680 and now he sees how great and sovereign God is. 0:32:41.710 --> 0:32:43.630 And so what do we learn about that? We can 0:32:43.630 --> 0:32:45.880 be like job and that we can complain to God. 0:32:45.880 --> 0:32:48.820 We can. We can pour out our hearts to God. 0:32:48.820 --> 0:32:52.630 We can. But what we can't do is demand that 0:32:52.630 --> 0:32:58.750 God explain himself, that why does God why, why you're 0:32:58.750 --> 0:33:01.000 wrong in doing this to me. You come down right 0:33:01.000 --> 0:33:04.390 here like we're talking to our teenage son. You get. 0:33:04.420 --> 0:33:07.660 You explain yourself, young man. No, you don't do that 0:33:07.660 --> 0:33:10.690 with the sovereign of the universe. Uh, because he knows 0:33:10.690 --> 0:33:14.110 what's best. So, uh, no, I don't think it justifies 0:33:14.110 --> 0:33:16.430 that his friends were right. They were not right. And 0:33:16.430 --> 0:33:21.020 it doesn't, uh, doesn't justify Jobe's attitude either. And it 0:33:21.020 --> 0:33:24.440 teaches us that we're going to suffer. We every one 0:33:24.440 --> 0:33:26.959 of us, by the way, will suffer. You know, you 0:33:26.990 --> 0:33:29.660 hear me say it all the time. Most unclaimed promise 0:33:29.690 --> 0:33:32.930 in the Bible. In this world you will have tribulation. 0:33:33.380 --> 0:33:37.280 I sometimes ask God why this tribulation? Do I really, 0:33:37.280 --> 0:33:40.130 really need this? But I. I really guard my heart 0:33:40.130 --> 0:33:45.020 against demanding that he explain himself to me because it's wrong. Yeah. 0:33:45.170 --> 0:33:49.160 That's wrong. God himself. He knows what's best. Uh, I 0:33:49.190 --> 0:33:52.459 plead with him, I talk with him. I'm really transparent 0:33:52.460 --> 0:33:56.300 with God. Uh, about like. Like he's surprised to know 0:33:56.300 --> 0:33:59.090 how I feel, right? He knows how I feel, but 0:33:59.090 --> 0:34:03.320 I express it to him. Uh, but I don't ever 0:34:03.350 --> 0:34:05.810 want to demand that he explain himself to me. 0:34:05.840 --> 0:34:09.260 Yet what I hear you saying is, I can express 0:34:09.260 --> 0:34:12.560 my anger to God. I can express the fact that 0:34:12.560 --> 0:34:15.590 I don't understand something, but at the end of the day, 0:34:15.590 --> 0:34:18.590 God is still God. God will always be God, and 0:34:18.590 --> 0:34:21.230 I have to always give God that reverence. 0:34:21.260 --> 0:34:24.830 Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying. That respect for his 0:34:25.610 --> 0:34:28.070 sovereignty and his authority. Okay. 0:34:28.190 --> 0:34:30.470 All right. Thank you. Thanks for that question, Edwin. 0:34:30.500 --> 0:34:34.279 Thank you. Our next question is from Lee in Minnesota, 0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:39.440 and he listens through M.c.b. The question is, when we die, 0:34:39.440 --> 0:34:41.600 we go to be with the Lord. But are we 0:34:41.600 --> 0:34:44.540 in heaven? Or is that for when the new heaven 0:34:44.540 --> 0:34:45.680 is created? 0:34:46.070 --> 0:34:48.860 Well, we go to be with God in His presence. 0:34:48.860 --> 0:34:52.700 It's called heaven. Uh, the reason I know that, you know, 0:34:52.730 --> 0:34:57.260 Paul talks about, uh, that he ascended to the third heaven. 0:34:57.410 --> 0:35:00.830 The first, the first heaven is the sky, then the 0:35:00.830 --> 0:35:04.520 second heaven is the atmosphere, and the third heaven is 0:35:04.520 --> 0:35:08.030 the presence of God. So Paul actually was brought by 0:35:08.030 --> 0:35:10.670 vision to the presence of God. When we die, we 0:35:10.670 --> 0:35:14.940 don't go by vision. We go there actually. And so 0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:17.610 we will go to heaven. But the new heavens and 0:35:17.610 --> 0:35:20.730 the new earth, the new creation that comes the way. 0:35:20.730 --> 0:35:22.860 If you look at the end of days, what we 0:35:22.860 --> 0:35:25.530 have now is we're in the age of the church. 0:35:25.530 --> 0:35:27.810 What's going to happen? Yet in the future there will 0:35:27.840 --> 0:35:30.360 be the rapture, and then we'll have the tribulation period. 0:35:30.360 --> 0:35:33.090 After the seven year tribulation, there'll be a thousand year 0:35:33.090 --> 0:35:37.590 reign of Jesus on earth, and then there'll be the 0:35:37.710 --> 0:35:39.750 some people call it the world to come or the 0:35:39.780 --> 0:35:42.360 eternal state. It's going to be a new heavens and 0:35:42.360 --> 0:35:45.570 a new earth. And so often we think of heaven 0:35:45.570 --> 0:35:48.000 as just when we die. But the new creation is 0:35:48.000 --> 0:35:51.240 where we're going to spend eternity. Uh, that new heavens 0:35:51.239 --> 0:35:53.820 and the new earth that, uh, with with God at 0:35:53.820 --> 0:35:58.020 the center of it. Uh, and we'll see the Lord Jesus, uh, 0:35:58.440 --> 0:36:01.350 and he will lead us from there. And that's forever. 0:36:01.350 --> 0:36:03.810 And it doesn't give us a lot of detail about 0:36:03.810 --> 0:36:06.120 what that's what a lot of people think of as heaven. 0:36:06.270 --> 0:36:10.320 You know, the the old Greek, uh, fathers said it 0:36:10.320 --> 0:36:13.990 was like sitting on a cloud, plucking a plucking a harp. 0:36:13.989 --> 0:36:17.770 I don't think so. It says in revelation 21, his 0:36:17.770 --> 0:36:22.480 servants will serve him. So we're going to be serving him. 0:36:22.480 --> 0:36:26.050 But I think it is so beyond our comprehension. He's 0:36:26.050 --> 0:36:28.989 held back a lot of the details. Yeah. So yeah, 0:36:29.020 --> 0:36:31.840 but that's that's heaven, too, in a sense. It's the 0:36:31.840 --> 0:36:35.650 new creation, but it's going to be a physical, literal place. Okay. 0:36:35.680 --> 0:36:38.560 So the current heaven, if someone were to die today. 0:36:38.590 --> 0:36:40.270 They'd go to be with the presence of God. 0:36:40.270 --> 0:36:44.500 In, in like a holding place, heaven until the eternal. 0:36:44.530 --> 0:36:45.880 It's the presence of God. 0:36:45.910 --> 0:36:48.370 That's where they go. Presence of God. But then, then 0:36:48.370 --> 0:36:50.110 they will move to. 0:36:50.140 --> 0:36:53.890 Then they'll be resurrected at the rapture of someone who 0:36:53.890 --> 0:36:58.900 dies today at the rapture will be resurrected physically and 0:36:58.900 --> 0:37:02.140 be part of that messianic kingdom on earth, that thousand 0:37:02.170 --> 0:37:08.830 year reign. Uh, and then we'll go into eternity, uh, 0:37:08.830 --> 0:37:12.480 in the new heavens and new earth with a physical body. 0:37:12.660 --> 0:37:13.350 Okay. 0:37:13.380 --> 0:37:16.170 Yeah. We're not going to be just on a cloud 0:37:16.170 --> 0:37:18.690 with a with a harp. Okay. Yeah. 0:37:19.170 --> 0:37:21.509 All right, so right now, their spirit. 0:37:21.540 --> 0:37:22.890 Yeah. Just immaterial. 0:37:22.890 --> 0:37:25.920 Immaterial. And then they will be reunited and have a 0:37:25.920 --> 0:37:30.239 physical body for the eternity. Yep. Okay. There's so many. 0:37:30.660 --> 0:37:34.080 It just even even this kind of can be a 0:37:34.080 --> 0:37:36.480 head scratcher. Yeah. It is. Trying to figure. 0:37:36.480 --> 0:37:38.490 Out. Some people say, you know, people go to soul 0:37:38.489 --> 0:37:42.240 sleep and they're resurrected, and that's no. Paul says absent 0:37:42.239 --> 0:37:44.670 from the body is present with the Lord. Lord. Second 0:37:44.670 --> 0:37:48.509 Corinthians five. It says in Philippians one, Paul wants to go, uh, 0:37:48.510 --> 0:37:51.150 wants to stay behind and minister to the Philippians. But 0:37:51.150 --> 0:37:53.160 he says, but it's far better for him to go 0:37:53.160 --> 0:37:57.210 to be with the Lord. Yeah. So we do go 0:37:57.239 --> 0:38:00.660 be with the Lord, but it's just the immaterial parts 0:38:00.660 --> 0:38:02.940 of us that go. Okay. Part of us. Okay. 0:38:02.969 --> 0:38:03.660 Okay. All right. 0:38:03.690 --> 0:38:06.270 Good. Great. Well, we're going to take a break here. 0:38:06.270 --> 0:38:10.160 We have time for more questions next hour, you can 0:38:10.160 --> 0:38:12.650 always go to Open Line radio.org and click on the 0:38:12.650 --> 0:38:15.920 link that says Ask Michael a question and post your 0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:18.470 question there. And then Tricia will put it in the 0:38:18.469 --> 0:38:20.570 mailbag and we'll try to get to as many. Next 0:38:20.570 --> 0:38:22.790 week we have a full mailbag program so you can 0:38:22.790 --> 0:38:26.540 listen to that. Uh, you're listening to open right now. 0:38:26.570 --> 0:38:29.960 Open line right now with Tricia McMillan. And Tahira and 0:38:29.960 --> 0:38:40.460 Michael will be right back. We're back. My name is 0:38:40.460 --> 0:38:42.950 Michael Melnick. This program is called Open Line. You can 0:38:42.950 --> 0:38:47.060 ask questions about the Bible, God and the spiritual life. 0:38:47.090 --> 0:38:55.189 The phone number (877) 548-3675. Now, if you could just see 0:38:55.190 --> 0:38:58.130 what I'm looking at. There are about four people in 0:38:58.130 --> 0:39:02.180 the booth right into the next room that I'm looking at, 0:39:02.180 --> 0:39:04.879 and they're laughing and having a good time. They pay 0:39:04.910 --> 0:39:08.410 no attention to the program. I just I'm, I think 0:39:08.410 --> 0:39:10.690 it's just no, they are paying attention. But I think 0:39:10.690 --> 0:39:13.359 it's so great to look at that team. They're working 0:39:13.360 --> 0:39:16.870 so hard to make me sound okay and I so 0:39:16.870 --> 0:39:21.069 appreciate them. And also, there's someone else in another room 0:39:21.070 --> 0:39:23.529 that I don't even see that's answering the phones. There's 0:39:23.530 --> 0:39:27.129 a real team here. You know, so often people think 0:39:27.130 --> 0:39:30.250 it's just Nokia on the phone that I'm talking to. 0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:32.890 But no, there's there's all of Moody Radio and then 0:39:32.890 --> 0:39:35.109 there's the technical people that I don't even see that 0:39:35.110 --> 0:39:37.569 make sure that this goes out. It's I love being 0:39:37.570 --> 0:39:41.140 part of Moody Radio because of the fantastic team. And 0:39:41.140 --> 0:39:45.130 there's some other unseen members of this team for Open Line. 0:39:45.130 --> 0:39:49.540 They are our kitchen table partners. Those kitchen table partners 0:39:49.540 --> 0:39:53.140 are those people who commit to give monthly to open 0:39:53.140 --> 0:39:55.720 line so we can be on the air weekly. So 0:39:55.719 --> 0:39:59.589 appreciate them. Uh, they give $30 a month. They can 0:39:59.590 --> 0:40:03.970 even get 50% off on the Moody Publishers catalog. And 0:40:05.060 --> 0:40:06.980 One of the things that I like to do is 0:40:06.980 --> 0:40:10.370 every other week we send a Bible study moment to 0:40:10.400 --> 0:40:12.950 our kitchen table partners. It's an audio Bible study, about 0:40:12.950 --> 0:40:15.560 5 or 10 minutes. Get it in your email, click 0:40:15.590 --> 0:40:18.620 on it, listen to it. I think it's an encouragement 0:40:18.620 --> 0:40:21.080 to walk with the Lord, to have a better understanding 0:40:21.080 --> 0:40:24.350 of the scriptures, to various things that we, we've done, 0:40:24.350 --> 0:40:27.680 understand the Bible better. Uh, if you'd like to become 0:40:27.680 --> 0:40:30.979 a kitchen table partner, uh, you'd consider it. We'd really 0:40:30.980 --> 0:40:33.620 appreciate it. One of the best things to do is 0:40:33.620 --> 0:40:36.800 just go to our website, openline radio.org. Or you can 0:40:36.800 --> 0:40:44.600 call (888) 644-7122. And you can decide to become a kitchen 0:40:44.600 --> 0:40:48.410 table partner too. And we would very much appreciate it. Well, 0:40:48.410 --> 0:40:51.799 we're going to talk to Lisa in Minnesota listening on Katie. 0:40:51.800 --> 0:40:54.650 Big welcome to Open Line Lisa. How can I help 0:40:54.650 --> 0:40:55.430 you today. 0:40:56.630 --> 0:41:01.009 Hi Michael. My question is I would like clarification on 0:41:01.010 --> 0:41:04.480 speaking in tongues. I know, um, you know, the Bible 0:41:04.480 --> 0:41:07.089 says that it happened at Pentecost and it was the 0:41:07.090 --> 0:41:10.660 language of the land, so that everybody there, you know, 0:41:10.690 --> 0:41:14.380 from all around in other countries could understand it. And 0:41:14.380 --> 0:41:17.950 nowadays it seems like it's, um, obviously a language just 0:41:17.950 --> 0:41:22.390 for in prayer between the prayer and God. So I'm 0:41:22.390 --> 0:41:25.780 a little confused on what the what does the Bible 0:41:25.780 --> 0:41:29.380 say about what the language of tongues is. And if 0:41:29.380 --> 0:41:31.450 you could explain that, that would be great. And is 0:41:31.450 --> 0:41:34.300 it a gift or is it can it be taught? 0:41:37.030 --> 0:41:39.729 No, it can't be taught. It's a spiritual gift. Uh, 0:41:39.730 --> 0:41:40.510 no one. 0:41:41.500 --> 0:41:43.810 My daughter, with that saying that they could teach her 0:41:43.810 --> 0:41:46.989 in tongues. And I said, yeah, that is not biblical. 0:41:47.020 --> 0:41:50.500 No, it's a spiritual gift. Just think about acts two. 0:41:50.530 --> 0:41:54.610 When the gift of tongues landed it, the Holy Spirit 0:41:54.610 --> 0:41:57.220 fell upon them, and they spoke in languages that they 0:41:57.219 --> 0:42:01.990 had not learned, but they were real languages. Same thing 0:42:01.989 --> 0:42:06.420 when Cornelius hears the gospel, believes the Holy Spirit falls 0:42:06.420 --> 0:42:09.240 on him, and he speaks in languages that he had 0:42:09.239 --> 0:42:15.240 not learned. That's in acts ten. So, uh, that that's 0:42:15.239 --> 0:42:18.540 what it is. It's being a spiritual gift that enables 0:42:18.570 --> 0:42:22.320 a person to speak in a language without having a 0:42:22.320 --> 0:42:26.010 foreign language, without having learned it. That's what the gift 0:42:26.010 --> 0:42:30.450 of tongues is. And then when you come to the epistles, 0:42:30.450 --> 0:42:34.380 some people want to change the meaning. Uh, now, here's 0:42:34.380 --> 0:42:37.170 the thing. And and now I want to just say 0:42:37.170 --> 0:42:41.279 this before I say anything else. Lisa, people disagree with 0:42:41.280 --> 0:42:46.649 me about what I'm about to say. My brothers and sisters, 0:42:46.650 --> 0:42:51.840 fellow believers whom I love, will disagree with me about this. 0:42:51.870 --> 0:42:57.090 I disagree with them. I, you know, I still love them. 0:42:57.450 --> 0:42:59.310 This is one of those things where there are no 0:42:59.310 --> 0:43:03.670 good guys or bad guys. You know, we're just we're 0:43:03.670 --> 0:43:07.089 just going to agree to disagree without being disagreeable. Okay. 0:43:07.120 --> 0:43:11.319 So that's I know the letters will come in when 0:43:11.320 --> 0:43:15.100 I explain what I understand about this. I'm not saying 0:43:15.100 --> 0:43:17.950 I've not read or pursued the other position to try 0:43:17.950 --> 0:43:20.500 and get a good grip on it. I have, but 0:43:20.500 --> 0:43:24.250 this is where I've landed. Okay. Uh, first of all, 0:43:24.250 --> 0:43:28.030 the modern tongues that that has been spoken, there really 0:43:28.030 --> 0:43:31.180 is no documented case where someone speaks in tongues in 0:43:31.180 --> 0:43:35.740 a language that's real. Mostly linguists find that it's gibberish. 0:43:35.830 --> 0:43:41.170 Not mostly universally, uh, that that it is. And there's 0:43:41.170 --> 0:43:44.620 a lot of studies done on it by linguists gibberish. 0:43:44.920 --> 0:43:50.860 And the explanation that's given is in First Corinthians 13, 0:43:50.860 --> 0:43:53.859 where it says, if I speak with tongues of men 0:43:53.890 --> 0:43:55.990 or of angels, and they say, oh, the reason why 0:43:55.989 --> 0:43:59.110 it can't be classified as a real language is because 0:43:59.110 --> 0:44:03.570 it's angel speak, it's angel language. And and they're not 0:44:03.660 --> 0:44:07.650 they're heavenly languages. They're not earthly and they can't be categorized. Well, 0:44:07.650 --> 0:44:11.940 that misunderstands first Corinthians 13 and first Corinthians 13. Paul 0:44:11.940 --> 0:44:17.670 is speaking hyperbole with hyperbole, uh, exaggeration. He's saying if 0:44:17.700 --> 0:44:22.230 men are angels of any kind of language imaginable, uh, 0:44:22.650 --> 0:44:25.890 and if I don't have love, it's useless. He is 0:44:25.890 --> 0:44:29.250 not in any way saying there's a different category of language. 0:44:29.250 --> 0:44:32.790 Just look at when we see pictures of heaven. Angels 0:44:32.790 --> 0:44:36.960 are speaking but visions of heaven in the Bible, they're 0:44:36.960 --> 0:44:41.009 speaking languages that we can understand. So and also in 0:44:41.010 --> 0:44:44.520 Galatians one Paul says, if an angel speaks another gospel 0:44:44.550 --> 0:44:47.580 to you, an angel from heaven speaks another gospel to you, 0:44:47.610 --> 0:44:50.100 let him be anathema. Angels from heaven aren't going to 0:44:50.100 --> 0:44:54.720 speak another gospel. The point of it is that that 0:44:54.719 --> 0:45:00.770 this is saying that, uh, it's it's hyperbole. Uh, you know, 0:45:00.800 --> 0:45:03.770 when it talks about in first Corinthians 14 that a 0:45:03.770 --> 0:45:12.620 person who speaks in tongues without, uh, interpretation that that is, uh, 0:45:13.340 --> 0:45:18.050 for self edification. Uh, truthfully, the purpose of spiritual gifts 0:45:18.080 --> 0:45:21.200 is never for self edification. It's for edification of the body. 0:45:21.230 --> 0:45:25.970 Paul says that in a negative way, he's not approving, uh, 0:45:25.969 --> 0:45:29.360 praying in tongues for the purpose of self edification. What 0:45:29.360 --> 0:45:33.740 he's doing is he's talking about, uh, that you should 0:45:33.739 --> 0:45:40.219 not pray in tongues without interpretation because it's only self-edification 0:45:40.219 --> 0:45:42.950 you edify yourself. What's the goal of a language to 0:45:42.980 --> 0:45:46.609 edify the body? The goal of all gifts to edify 0:45:46.610 --> 0:45:51.049 the body. So there's a lot to be said about tongues. Uh, 0:45:51.050 --> 0:45:54.620 I try not to argue about it, but I hope 0:45:54.620 --> 0:45:57.029 that answers some of the questions. Here's what I will 0:45:57.030 --> 0:46:02.820 tell you. First Corinthians 14 says, all do not speak 0:46:02.820 --> 0:46:07.230 in tongues, do they? And the answer is no. So 0:46:07.230 --> 0:46:11.850 everyone does not have to speak in tongues. Don't put 0:46:11.850 --> 0:46:14.790 any pressure on your daughter or yourself to speak on 0:46:14.790 --> 0:46:18.660 in tongues. Uh, that's just not necessary. Well, first hour's up. 0:46:18.660 --> 0:46:20.400 We're going to come back with a second hour in 0:46:20.400 --> 0:46:24.569 just a moment. Check out our web page Openline radio.org. Uh, 0:46:24.570 --> 0:46:27.540 on that page you'll find links to our current resource 0:46:27.540 --> 0:46:29.640 how to become a kitchen table Partner, how to get 0:46:29.640 --> 0:46:33.210 the chosen people offer. This month. You'll see it all there. Uh, 0:46:33.210 --> 0:46:37.230 just go to our website, openline. radio.org. More questions coming 0:46:37.230 --> 0:46:39.450 up in just a bit. So stay with us. Second 0:46:39.480 --> 0:46:43.440 hour coming up straight ahead. Open line is a production 0:46:43.440 --> 0:46:47.760 of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. We're 0:46:47.760 --> 0:46:49.830 coming right back, so stay with us.